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▶ 0:04:45good afternoon the committee will come to order without objection the chair's authorized to declare recess at any time today the rules committee is convening to consider HR 1048 HJ red 24 and HJ res75 first we'll turn to HR 1048 the deterrent act this legislation will bring much needed transparency accountability and Clarity to foreign gift reporting requirements
▶ 0:05:16for colleges and universities Across the Nation it strengthens section 117 of The Higher Education Act which was intended to protect American colleges and universities from nefarious foreign foreign influence within higher education is not something to be taken lightly it poses a seismic threat and one that must be addressed without delay without meaningful measures to increase transparency and accountability we will never fully understand the true
▶ 0:05:46amount of foreign funds being funneled into colleges and universities under current law institutions of higher education must adhere to these reporting requirements though many fail to do so because of how weak current law actually is a 2019 Senate report found that up to 70% of colleges in universities failed to comply with the law that's unacceptable and must be changed next we turn to HJ res 24
▶ 0:06:17a congressional review act resolution that overturns another wrongheaded midnight rule from the Department of energy relating to conservation standards for Walkin coolers and Walkin free freezers the department of energy issued this final rule a mere 2 days before Christmas last year yet another gift from the Biden Administration that nobody asked for this midnight rule piles on additional cost of the shoulders of Main Street businesses
▶ 0:06:47while at the very same time takes a hatchet to Consumer Choice today we're breaking out the shovels and burying this midnight rule in the grave where it belongs good riddens consumer choice is here to stay lastly we turn to res75 a congressional review act resolution that overturns yet another wrongheaded rule by the department of energy relating to conservation standards for
▶ 0:07:17commercial refrigeration freezers and refrigerator freezers like the previous rule from the Department of energy that was just discussed this rule is yet another example of the regulat barrage that the Biden Administration launched against Main Street as well as consumers regulating this country into the ground benefits absolutely no one that's an indisputable fact like the last rule will'll bury this one in the grave also nobody
▶ 0:07:47will miss it with that I look forward to today's discussion and I now yield to the ranking member Mr McGovern for any comments he wishes to make well thank you madam chair um and I've really got to say that I'm I'm so glad that Republicans are finally tackling a major issue that everybody and I mean everybody is talking about all the time commercial walk-in freezers oh my God I mean coming off your recent deep dives into pool heaters and hot water
▶ 0:08:18tanks I've got to hand it to this majority you're really zeroed in on what's most important to the American people keep at it because nothing says we're listening like congressional action on Commercial Refrigeration equipment but if you happen to find a little extra time moving forward maybe you might want to talk about something that I'm actually hearing about from my constituents like how Donald Trump is openly using the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies or how he's dismantling entire federal agencies
▶ 0:08:48purging civil servants and replacing them with loyalists maybe you could talk about how he and Elon are threatening to screw around with Social Security even as people's retirement accounts are tanking because of chaotic economic proposals and Reckless trade Wars or how his tariffs are already driving up prices for everyday Goods again hitting Working Families with a hidden tax while he pretends to stand up for them and maybe you could discuss how he's telling people to buy Tesla stock while whining and
▶ 0:09:18dining Elon Musk at maral Lago that's called corruption or how he's turning the presidency into his own getrich quick scheme while claiming to speak for the working people I dare you to hold the town hall and tell your constituents what Republicans are using this committee to do hold hearings on commercial appliances while Donald Trump burns down the government and as if wasting time on commercial freezer bills isn't bad enough you're bringing up
▶ 0:09:59this is about punishing higher education institutions and maybe you guys think that learning is a liberal conspiracy because the bottom line is this isn't about policy it's about fear either tow the line either say what we want you to say do what we want you to do or we'll be or or you'll be punished it's also about gutting the Department of Education and making it so that the only people who can afford College are the ones already at the top gutting the educa
▶ 0:10:30getting the Department of Education means larger class sizes it means fewer teachers it means higher tuition and it means devastating cuts to research and Innovation research that leads to Medical cures climate Solutions and economic growth all to bankroll tax cuts for billionaires and appease the whims of a man who thinks democracy is an inconvenience well Democrats believe in something better we believe government should work for all people not just the wealthiest you we believe in
▶ 0:11:00investing in Education Health Care housing clean air and water and jobs we're ready to work with anyone serious about delivering results for Working Families but we will not stand by while Trump and his Republican enablers try to turn the government into their own personal ATM and a weapon for retaliation and revenge I yield back thank you Mr mcgoverin without objection any prepared statement that I statements that I Witnesses may have
▶ 0:11:30will be included in the record I now welcome our first panel chairman Tim Walberg and ranking member Bobby Scott my good friends from the um committee on education and the workforce your full statement will be submitted for the record and we ask that you summarize your statement in five minutes chairman Walberg I welcome your testimony thank you madam chair it's good to be in in front of you and and the committee today
▶ 0:12:01foreign Nations including our biggest adversaries like the Chinese Communist Party contribute billions to American universities the lack of transparency around foreign relationships should cause concern for every American as we see arise in stolen research anti-semitic propaganda and academic censorship HR 1048 the bipartisan deterrent act brings much needed transparency to the financial ties that our universities
▶ 0:12:31have with foreign entities while American institutions have research and financial Partnerships with foreign institutions we know that our adversaries often hijack these legitimate Partnerships to undermine our nation's interest investigations by the first Trump Administration found billions in foreign funding to colleges and universities were unreported and unfortunately there are plenty of recent examples just in the last two years of schools and faculty failing to disclose
▶ 0:13:02troubling Partnerships regarding sensitive research of course the incidents we see are just the tip of the iceberg without transparency we have no idea the true amount or use of these foreign funds it's disturbing that we have little to no idea the true amount or impact of foreign funds at our institutions we should be proactive not reactive when it comes to threats on our College camp campuses it's time to pass the deterrent act
▶ 0:13:32this bill holds institutions accountable by slashing the foreign gift reporting threshold for colleges especially for adversarial Nations like China and Iran it also closes reporting loopholes that have allowed institutions to Skirt the Rules most importantly however this bill puts in place strong enforcement mechanisms that will lead to Greater Partnerships and accountability like pulling federal student aid funding from institutions that refuse to comply
▶ 0:14:03after multiple violations the bottom line is that the tent act will keep our adversaries at Bay and hold our institutions to a higher standard let last Congress under your leadership chairwoman Fox the deterrent Act was able to pass the house floor with strong bipartisan support I look forward to seeing this bipartisan bill pass the floor again and gets signed into law and I yield back
▶ 0:14:34thank you very much Mr chairman representative Scott you're recognized for your comment thank you madam chair ranking member mover members of the committee I'm here today to speak in opposition of HR 1048 first I have to point out that earlier this month the Secretary of Education fired half the staff at the Department of Education and last week president Trump signed an executive order to dism Manel the department all together to date the administration shown little regard for their reparable
▶ 0:15:04harm this will cause students Educators and future Workforce and parents who are already struggling moreover their actions are forcing more dedicated civil servants with invaluable institutional knowledge out of the federal government they'll be of course replaced by political import importes will answer only to president Trump and Elon Musk so we can um we're so we are here today to discuss the merits of HR 1048 a bill that would increase work
▶ 0:15:34and responsibility of the very Department this Administration is actively dismantling this Congress ma major Republican majority in both House and Senate has a real opportunity to address the many real pressing issues that fa that students actually face like closing achievement gaps addressing College accessibility and affordability and ending gun violence in schools but here we are the first uh Bill we considered was a bill to allow
▶ 0:16:04bullying of trans students who want to join their school sports teams and this bill which will isolate America from its key allies Global collaborations have allowed universities to make bold Forward Thinking strides in health science and technology for their communities and people across the world additionally institutions have collaborated with the US government to enhance our research ecosystem systems by attracting and and retaining researchers and Scholars from around the world these
▶ 0:16:34Partnerships have strengthened the inner workings of our economy and positioned America as a leader in scientific and intellectual research but as written the deterrent act would codify the Trump administration's ability to seize funds from schools if they're found to be engaging with any country or representative that the Secretary of State deems a threat in fact despite concerns stakeholders and I have raised the F Bill finds colleges $50,000 after a single reporting mistake but fails to provide any support
▶ 0:17:04to help underresourced colleges managed this absurdly honorous reporting the bill would also Force institutions to deviate from the established compliance and Reporting guidelines already in existence under Section 117 of The Higher Education Act and the significant guidance and Reporting already required from fed other federal agencies would also disincentivize Institution from hiring talented International faculty because they fear that their Federal funding could be indiscriminately
▶ 0:17:35pulled for example the bill singers out Partnerships with entities and Scholars from certain countries quote of concern unquote targeting researchers based purely on their National nationality so let's be clear this legislation that provides targeted and thoughtful steps to protect our research let's be clear this we need legislation that provides targeted and thoughtful steps to protect our research and de and develop initiatives but we need to do it without jeopardizing Global Partnerships that
▶ 0:18:05benefit everybody and to do so I've offered a thoughtful alternative to improve section 117 compliance and support institutions as they evaluate and Implement their research Integrity in foreign influence policies that Amendment Builds on the Biden administration's work to support Global Partnerships and curve undue foreign influence without stifling Innovation or creating hostile campus environments for international students specifically it aligns reporting requirements with those
▶ 0:18:35of federal agencies and requires a secretary of education to go through negotiated rulemaking to address key implementation of as key implementation of section 117 to that end I strongly urge my colleagues to accept the amendment and reject uh 1048 as it's currently drafted and to bring us back to reality before I conclude this will all be mood if we dismantle the Department of Education because you won't have anyone to administer the program
▶ 0:19:06I challenge my Republican Co colleagues who know that abolishing the Department of Education will harm our children to impose the administration's actions publicly thank you madam chair and I you back thank you very much both for your testimony and I just have one question um chairman Wahlberg uh last week president Trump issued an executive order regarding the closing of Department of Education and uh representative Scott mentioned it um
▶ 0:19:36uh that uh regards to the executive order and the intent of the bill how would the provisions of your bill be implemented if the Department of Education were to be shut down well I appreciate that question and the concern that my uh um friend colleague on the committee uh has about that but we know that the president in his executive order made it very clear that we would um need Congress to act if we're going to abolish the entire department to rightsize
▶ 0:20:06it to depower certain parts of it to shift certain Provisions that we have assumed come from the Department of Education and give those to other other departments like has been done in the past with health health and human services department treasury has the capability of writing checks on this very thing we certainly uh have the the potential of keeping it in the Department of Education as long as it's there if not there's a department of justice that has capabilities of doing these
▶ 0:20:37things 117 section 117 was not used at all during President Biden's term not at all which encouraged some of the things that we're concerned with now to take place so I don't think we have a problem with what's in place now as long as we put teeth and use section one 17 as this bill attempts to do and again it is a bipartisan Bill there were 31 Democrats who voted for it in the last term
▶ 0:21:07and I think it's it shows that it's it's well positioned to care for the needs especially when we have countries like Russia China specifically the Chinese Communist Party um Iran and North North Korea involved those are our concerning comp countries thank you very much I'd call on Mr McGovern yeah uh thank you um chairman Walberg let me just first ask you uh Mr Scott has an amendment um and this is the rules committee do you have any would you would you support
▶ 0:21:38um this committee making an order his Amendment so that we could bring it to the floor and and discuss it I will leave that to the committee to do that I think the bill is drafted very well again it was a bipartisan Bill and I'm going to stand with my bill I prefer no amendments okay all right well but that's that's a trend in this committee because most of the bills coming out of here are are closed rules that I feel like we're in Russia sometimes but you T you began by talking about this is about our national security and I kind of found that rich especially when I'm looking at the what we
▶ 0:22:08learned today um I don't know if you saw the article in the Atlantic by Jeffrey Goldberg uh but uh his article entitled the Trump Administration accidentally texted me its War plans US National Security leaders included me in a group chat about upcoming military strikes in Yemen and I didn't think it could be real then the bombs started falling I ask you nous consent to insert this in the record without OB but on this on this text chain was the vice president of the United States uh
▶ 0:22:38the Secretary of Defense I'm just looking really briefly here um uh uh Michael Walls um and um John John Ratcliffe um I I I mean if you're worried about National Security let me tell you you get bigger problems on your hands right now um and I'm I'm hoping that maybe there'll be some oversight hearings into how something like this can happen I me you got a team in place especially
▶ 0:23:08Department of Defense who are not qualified to be there quite frankly and this is the kind of stuff you get want to talk about National Security threats this is a national security threat and I hope that my Republican friends will look into it um Mr U Scott I mean you heard what Mr Wahlberg said don't worry be happy some other agencies will pick up the slack I mean I my understanding is that already uh 2,000 people have been cut from the Department of Education um and um you know
▶ 0:23:38I don't know how I don't know who's going to administer all the different programs that Department of Education ad ministers by the way to the entire country uh but I I was interested if you had a um a response to well the um the what has to be reported of gifts and if it's from a quote country of concern which could be a citizen uh of a country of concern um there's no value limitation any gift cup of coffee anything so
▶ 0:24:08it's without regard to uh the amount that the value uh he says countries like and named a uh the colleges trying to comply would have to ascertain which are the countries of concern and without any professional development I'm not sure most would be able to figure that out and it's a changing list you so I guess you got to keep up just make sure the
▶ 0:24:39Secretary of State hadn't stuck another name or two on there right so any any country that the administration deems a country of concern if it's on the list uh and you got to go it's cross references what country of concerns means and all it does is if you don't know the citizenship of your colleague if you're a university Professor you don't necessarily know the citizenship of your colleagues and so the safe thing to do would be just discriminate against
▶ 0:25:09anybody that looks foreign so and that's that's what this that's would be the effect of this legislation so basically it says you know um you know um uh this bill allows the administration to addit any country they deem to be engaging in quote conduct that is detrimental to the National Security of foreign policy of the United States end quote um as a foreign country of concern that's the way this is so does that mean if this bill becomes law the administration can you know continue its absurd Feud with our closest neighbors and add Canada and Mexico
▶ 0:25:39as a foreign country of concern well and you and how would you find out you going to keep up with the federal record and if you've got a Canadian colleague and you're doing research all of a sudden uh if they bring coffee and donuts uh to to the uh to the office all of a sudden except coffee and donuts you find you oh you got to report that and you're on the list of people who have accepted foreign gifts right yeah I mean I guess my problem with all
▶ 0:26:09of this is is that it comes down it boils down to just trust us um I mean Donald Trump's Administration isn't going to add a country to this concern list just because you know they their Fe their feelings got hurt I mean I I that's my worry I mean just trust us uh and you know and going back to what I said before I mean I'm I'm looking at what has already been done at the Department of Education they've gone from 4,000 employees for the whole nation down to 2,000 and then we're being told that they're going to move student loans over to the small business
▶ 0:26:40administration is that what you your understanding chairman it's it's our understanding as of today but it's it's not our understanding that it's permanent well but I I I but I I also want to insert into the record and as you consent for this an article from Bloomberg government small business administration had cut 43% of its workers uh in Doge push without objection I mean I I again I I I I get the that nobody wants to say anything
▶ 0:27:10or question the administration any way shape or form but I mean you know it is really concerning when you're seeing these dramatic Cuts happen I mean quite quickly without a lot of thought being given to where the cuts are coming and then we move this program the Student Loan program over to small business administration which has other responsibilities and they're going supposed to administer this and they're being cut by 43% as of right now I mean maybe even
▶ 0:27:40more um you know so forgive me when I said I don't have any reason to trust this Administration um again you know as I said just today we found out that the vice president the secretary defense and the Director of National Intelligence and and others leaked a sensitive military operation via text to a random phone number that turned out to be a reporter I mean you can't make this stuff up and if this is what the administration is doing when it comes to keeping our service members safe to protecting
▶ 0:28:10our secrets from our enemies then guess what I don't trust them when it comes to our students and our children and our education or to administer this program in a way that quite frankly is dedicated to protecting our national security I yeld back thank you um um I would call on Mr Roy I I thank the chair I thank the gentleman for appearing before the committee um we're talking about trust um and I I would just ask um representative
▶ 0:28:41Wahlberg I mean I don't if you share some of your concerns about trust by the previous administration's handling National Security when we lost 13 of our men and women in uniform in the disastrous departure from Afghanistan or the trust in terms of leaving billions of dollars of equipment behind for our enemies to be able to use against us and documentation that demonstrates it's being used against us uh the trust that we have in an Administration that docked US Special Forces soldiers in Israel uh which the Biden administration had to admit and apologize
▶ 0:29:11for so if I want to hear about the you know trust that I have an Administration it certainly isn't the one that had us uh you know basically handing over the keys the kingdom uh with respect to our enemies with respect to China Iran and yes Russia by uh its foolish energy policies and and putting our our U allies and our own Nation at risk I assume the gentleman agrees with his concerns about the previous administration's handling a national security certainly I do also getting back to the issue at hand of Education
▶ 0:29:41U after Congress uh put through legislation to simplify faasa so that students and their families could understand what potential they had for student uh loans and resources the department of Ed education couldn't do that and for three years students without went without an understanding of what they had available to them that was part of the law already in place and the Department of Education that since 1980
▶ 0:30:11has spent over3 trillion to have worse nape scores come out and continue to downgrade so if we're talking about trust the trust isn't there but what we're talking of here is simply saying that a professor that takes some funds a gift has to come under the basically same Provisions as a member of Congress in what we have to report in what we received that's trust that's that's security issue when we talk about $50 million
▶ 0:30:42or more coming from a foreign country we ought to know about it if if the University of Michigan I'll pick on my own if the University of Michigan can determine what alumni or businesses are contributing to their athletic programs I would think that the University of Michigan can determine what dollars are coming from China or North Korea or Iran or Russia that's a simple reporting
▶ 0:31:12requirement again if they can do it for their sports program they can do it for this and to be clear this legislation garnered 31 Democrats in support of it in the last Congress is that correct that's correct uh and we're addressing issues for example that American colleges and universities disclosed $40 billion in foreign funding since 1981 is that correct that's correct uh including 1.1 billion in fore foreign payments in 2021 alone and specifically for example a congressional investigation of re certain research universities uh
▶ 0:31:42uh making clear that $40 million uh in unreported research contracts with the Chinese Communist party is that correct that's correct so all we're trying to do again with 31 Democrats in agreement in the last Congress is point out the extent to which we have our own enemies and our own adversar is funding our own institutions of higher education which is undermining not only our national security but the education of our youth is that correct that's correct so pretty straightforward piece of legislation um Chinese sources have participated in donations or contracts worth more than $426
▶ 0:32:12million to US University since 2011 does that sound about right that sounds about right maybe not quite enough and exactly it's probably more and that and we wouldn't know because there's a lot of anonymous sources that we can't track and we're trying 117 wasn't used in the last four years so for all of our constituents out there listening we simply just want to know whether your taxpayer dollars or borrowed money uh how that's being used to set up universities that then have foreign money coming in to have massive influence on what your children are being taught and educated and whether that's undermining
▶ 0:32:42our own National Security that's what we're trying to do here and the IP that is taken and there's should be nothing partisan about that at all correct shouldn't be this a bipartisan bill yeah and the last point I'll make and I'll I'll yield back is on the other matters before to say are unimportant for the average small business business owners having to deal with regulations and walk in refrigerators or whatever it might be it's really important it's really important for a small business that wants to try to operate and not have to deal with the rubric of regulations that the administration the previous administration is piling onto small businesses I mean
▶ 0:33:13I introduced I just had to introduce a piece of legislation to try to unwind the complexities around a gas can literally the gas can Freedom Act so you can actually undo that the United States government has messed up a gas can and you know what the people that I work I see my colleagues kind of shaking their heads this is unimportant you know what it's important to all the guys that I work with around my district who are just beside themselves frustrated they literally can't just go buy a $5 gas can fill it with gas and pour it into their freaking tractor without
▶ 0:33:43having to go through all the gations of a highly regulated device supposedly for their safety the American people are sick and tired of it that's why they're back to president that's why they're backing an Administration that's trying to undo the burden meanwhile when we're spending $7 trillion with $5 trillion of income coming in with $36 trillion of debt and Counting maybe just maybe there are some bureaucrats we can find to fire and some regulations to cut I yield back thank you I would yield to uh
▶ 0:34:13Mrs scanland from Pennsylvania thank you and i' yield a minute or two to my colleague Mr MC just briefly uh you know maybe in maybe in your District uh the number one issue is gas cans or refrigerators but in my district people are worried about social security they're worried about Medicaid they're worried about Medicare they're worried and they're worried about whether the kids can afford to get a college education um and all those things are under attack right now and you can deny it all you want but this Administration has made clear where it's coming from and in terms of National Security
▶ 0:34:44again let me just read this slowly so it sinks in the Trump Administration accidentally texted me its War plans this is according to uh Jeffrey Goldberg from the Atlantic magazine US national sec Security leaders included me in a group chat about upcoming military strikes in Yemen I didn't think uh it could be real then the bomb started falling so I get the gentleman from Texas he's he's okay with you know with the with the administration texting their classified
▶ 0:35:14War plans to a reporter on an unsecured phone Bo that makes a lot of sense I mean we heard for 5 years about Hillary's emails not a peep when they put classified National Security Council War PLS on an iPhone give me a break that nobody's concerned about that that's not a national security issue I mean we're talking about this bill that somehow all these foreign countries are going to have to going to infiltrate our universities to be able to you to figure out what's going on you know with our
▶ 0:35:45most sensitive National Security issues you know our enemies all they need to do is just read our text messages from the National Security Agency to get all the secrets this is a this is a real problem problem uh and I would I would I I hope some on the other side will recognize that but the people who are running this show quite frankly are not qualified I yield to the gentleman well you we don't want to eliminate the we don't want to lose the fact that any gift
▶ 0:36:15that has the possibility of influencing uh a College is already reportable this just brings the threshold down to zero for a list of countries that nobody knows what's on the list so if I get a cup of coffee that has to be report got to report it that that makes a lot of sense talk about excessive bureaucracy thank you for yielding it okay thank you um I'm always happy to talk about funding for our universities but I have to say I'm a lot more concerned right now about the funding that's been
▶ 0:36:46illegally impounded um that goes to research at our and development at our universities especially having just spent the last 10 days in my district um where I had one research group tell me that they had to stop the trials for ovarian cancer they're actually treating people with promising medications for ovarian cancer but they had to stop it because their funding through NIH was stopped in another place they had cuts to research on how different medical conditions impact our marginalized
▶ 0:37:16communities but apparently that runs a file of this administration's Dei prohibition so if you're poor or you're black well then you don't get to have research done on how your medical condition might be different and then I got to talk to some of our building contractors because all this funding is being held up to the universities the universities are having to shift their plans in order to keep funding some of their research they're cancelling construction so I'm talking to a contractor who
▶ 0:37:46this week has to go and lay off half of his team because the universities have had to pull back because this Administration has illegally impounded their funding so um you know if we're going to talk about funding for our universities that's where I would start with the real-time harm that is being done to colleges and universities across this country and how that harm is spreading to the health education and Welfare of people across this country and then even now talk about trickle down effect trickling down and harming our
▶ 0:38:16contractors and businesses in those Arenas but coming back to this I I understand this is an area where there's been bipartisan agreement in the past that we need to have transparency with respect to where funding is coming from and just if you could highlight for us a little bit uh Mr Scott just how are those concerns addressed with your Amendment and why doesn't this bill well first of all it sets the threshold it makes uh reporting consistent with what's already going on uh
▶ 0:38:46it would I mean the the idea that people are giving gifts that are in that are creating foreign influence anything that could create that kind of influence is already reportable this just creates a ridiculous situation where if you go to a colleague's daughter's wedding and there's value in attending the reception that you got to report it do you go so your name's on a list of people whove taken gifts from countries of concern
▶ 0:39:17I don't know okay and and so it just it just U creates a an absurd situation it encourages um uh discrimination against people would require you to check out their citizenship the fact that someone um is um from a foreign country doesn't mean they're not a US citizen okay um so it sounds like a concern that might be able to be addressed by Amendment yeah
▶ 0:39:47okay um I do share your concern that this creates new opportunities for bullying in the academic world and we've certainly seen far too much of that over the last week too so um I appreciate your testimony and I'll yield back thank you very much I would yield to uh representative Langworthy thank you very much Madam chair uh as Mr Roy pointed out a congressional investigation into this matter revealed that two top research universities
▶ 0:40:17uncovered nearly $40 million in unreported research contracts with the Chinese Communist party uh representative Wahlberg would top universities with with armies of administrative staff and billions and billions of dollars in resources simply not report substantial amounts of money and contracts with these entities uh controlled by our greatest adversary well that's our concern and that's what we've seen take place as you just reminded us with some major universities
▶ 0:40:48including schools like Stanford that were in the news for doing that very thing and like I said they have the capabilities of determining what athletic boosters and organizations are contributing finances to athletes or the athletic program I would think they could with four specific uh countries Bad actors countries very clear what they are on the list it's not hard to find out and if that's changed that'll be fairly clear as
▶ 0:41:18well but right now four specific schools or countries that sit on that uh that list of Bad actors I would I would I'd be certain that the attorneys that they pay could figure out how to report that and can you remind us again what did the Biden Administration do to the enforcement efforts already on the books for these institutions who ref they really refused to adhere to existing law they just didn't
▶ 0:41:48use section 117 they just didn't use it and we spent four years with that taking place and that can continue well I really appreciate your testimony here uh between infiltration by CCP back entities and the violent demonstrations raging on college campuses against our Jewish students institutions of higher education are long overdue for some very serious accountability and transparency and I look forward to supporting
▶ 0:42:19this Rule and this legislation on the floor and I yield back Madam chair thank you very much Mr ngus thank you uh Madam chair thank you chairman Wahlberg ranking member Scott for being here today for your respective testimonies Mr chairman couple quick questions for you so I take it you support the department of education's recently announced reduction in force is that correct I do okay this is the 50%
▶ 0:42:49reduction in force that secretary McMahon of the Department of Education has initiated so wiping out half of the Personnel At Doe right I do okay and you support president Trump's executive order in which he's uh purporting to initiate the dismantling of the Department of Education I do okay this bill purports to create a number of statutory requirements that will be imposed on universities across the country one of which is to file reports as you've detailed
▶ 0:43:19who are those reports filed with it'll go to the Department of Education until to which which department it will go to the Department of Education that is still in existence and will continue to be in existence until the Congress uh passes both houses I see for repal so the university should file these reports with the Department that just had half of its Workforce eliminated and that President Trump has announced he would like to dismantle both of which you support
▶ 0:43:50but you believe we should pass this bill to impose reporting obligations on these univers I don't who are they filing it with I guess you're saying the 50% of the employees that are left they'll file it with those folks that's the job of the Department of Education until it is no longer there I see that's we deal with sure and once this Administration has succeeded in its efforts to completely empty this agency then what we move 117 to the appropriate entity that will handle it What entity is that I that will be what we determine as Congress
▶ 0:44:20that you would determine as that we would determine collectively as Congress that sounds very different than what president Trump has IND said as well he indicated clearly that the Department of Education couldn't be fully eliminated without an act of Congress he understands that as well this is what I'm trying to understand chairman Walberg because I've reviewed every page of this bill it imposes a number of comprehensive obligations and requirements on the Department of Education right correct right it requires the Department of Education
▶ 0:44:50to publish a database of every single report that is filed by institutions of higher education across the country right transparency answer yes correct and that's the website is supposed to be the database is supposed to be updated every 30 days right correct right and it requires the Department of Education to engage in an inter agency process in which they are initiating legal action with the attorney general if they find that a report was filed invalidly correct correct correct I'm trying to better understand how you can come before this committee and ask the Congress to pass a bill imposing
▶ 0:45:21a Litany of requirements on a department that you believe shouldn't exist on a department that you just conceded uh you support emptying the bowels of this agency half of the people at the Department of Education are gone gone on administrative leave and we're here entertaining A bill asking the department to publish a comprehensive database that will be updated in real time who do you think is going to build this database of you I I I understand
▶ 0:45:51that you're passionate about it but if you want this database built why don't you support a Department of Education to build it I I don't how can you ask us to eliminate the agency and simultaneously impose obligations on the at the same time well I believe the Department of Education as constituted by this Administration will have that Authority and will have that ability I I have no idea what you just what what do you I'm answering your question The Entity that is responsible for it within the Department of Education will be expected to carry it
▶ 0:46:21out What entity I believe we have an we have an Administration in place that will expect things to be done and we'll get them done What entity the department of education do you know whether the sub agency that would be responsible for publishing this database or the technical people building this database do you know whether they exist anymore they they certainly exist anymore because the department is there could you tell me what AG it has been downsized the same Department that was there is still there it just less a number yeah I you know
▶ 0:46:52and efficiency works in the private sector ought to work in the public sector as well look I would just simply suggest to you that if you are this interested and this passionate as you clearly are and as many of your colleagues are about changing the law and requiring more of the Department of Education a good way to achieve that might not be cutting half of the workforce overnight it doesn't quite make sense to me how one can make the argument
▶ 0:47:22that the department should be dismantled abolished eliminated but by the way let's spend time passing bills that impose additional requirements on the very Department that you intend to eliminate I don't get it and I don't think the American people get it either I understand you know this bill a year ago I mean it was a reference by my colleague from Texas about bipartisan support that existed for the bill and I I understand you know folks have arguments about the merits of the bill that was before the
▶ 0:47:52president of the United States announced that he intended to eliminate this department altogether lawfully of course but nonetheless to your point in as much as Congress obviously has the right and the the the Constitutional authority to decide the fate of this department feels like maybe the debate we should be having is whether or not the Department of Education uh should exist since there are clearly many of my colleagues it sounds like perhaps the chairman of the education committee included who don't believe it should and there are those of us who do believe it should and those who fall in the latter Camp I think
▶ 0:48:22they have the right to be able to debate whether new requirements should be imposed on the agenc but I I find it very rich to suggest to the workers of the Department of Education who are literally on administrative leave half of them thousands of people across the country uh that were debating whether or not we should impose more requirements on them since they don't really have jobs right now I I but I I I'll give you an opportunity to respond I my to my we're not imposing it on them they are no longer the part part of the department but I respect your position
▶ 0:48:53but we still have to function in reality and right now we have uh actors that are very negative toward our country dangerous toward our country as well as our educational policy sure that are involved so it's time for us to take action and make sure that section 117 is carried out sure so uh and thank you Mr chairman what what happens what happens in two weeks when secretary McMahon decides that instead of the 50% riff that she's already implemented she's going to do a 90% riff then what we'll we'll
▶ 0:49:23deal with that when it comes what do you or we live in the reality of what is okay so the secretary announces this isn't hypothetical they eliminated half of the workforce already in the last eight weeks so if the secretary decides that she's going to proceed a step further and eliminate another 40% of the agency your argument essentially is well we'll cross that bridge when we get there the Department of Education will decide which statutory requirements
▶ 0:49:53which new mandates unfunded mandates republicans in Congress have decided to impose on the education department that they should comply with and which they shouldn't that's basically it well I guess my answer to that again is that's another issue we're dealing with the issue of dealing with clandestine um uh dangerous actors of countries that are donating and contributing to our educational system especially our higher education institutions and what do we do about that how do we carry out section 117 in a more productive way
▶ 0:50:24and how do we deal with the reality of those Destin actors and what they're doing right now that's the issue of this bill I'm not debating whether we reform repeal abolish Department of Education what do we do with the responsibility you have now with National Security and I hear you Mr chairman I hear you and I can hear the passion of your voice and I I think all I'm suggesting is who would these colleges file these reports with who do they the bill says that the Department of Education is supposed to create a new singular point of contact to work with all
▶ 0:50:54the universities so that we can address the national secur concerns that you've articulated so well and my question to you is I don't know how the Department is supposed to do that when you're eliminating the department well if we well we haven't eliminated Department they've gotten rid of half of it well it isn't all yet they're halfway there well yeah yeah thank God students and the kids across the country yeah I'm I'm grateful that they haven't eliminated the other 50% and of course the order itself as you know is the subject of litigation that was initiated today uh and I doubt that the executive order will ultimately survive
▶ 0:51:24scrutiny by the courts but nonetheless anyway we we've belabored it um I'll give raik member Scott an opportunity to respond and then happy to Y just want to remind everybody that when we talk about National Security all any significant gift is already reportable in fact under the Biden Administration they had over 100,000 uh reports of Gibson contracts totaling about $60 billion turns out a lot more than under the former Trump administration because section 117 was been
▶ 0:51:54around for a long time um and this bill would increase astronomically the number of reports that have to be made yeah I it's precisely the point ranky member Scott and uh chairman wallberg I I don't mean to be uh you know confrontational I just I guess I'm just suggesting maybe it's something we can consider with chairwoman Fox uh when she returns I I think there should be a new rule for the rules committee which is if you're going to submit
▶ 0:52:24a bill to the committee imposing obligations or requirements on agency you should have to believe that that agency should continue to exist like that seems like a pretty simple requirement so for example chairman Wahlberg if you if if you believe that there should be certain requirements on the FBI right that there should be certain reports filed with the FBI it would be reasonable to assume that you also believe the FBI should exist right it would would
▶ 0:52:54be nonsensical to say I have a bill it's right here and the bill says that the FBI shall do a b and c but by the way I don't believe that we should have an FBI right that wouldn't make sense right am I is that I would disagree to a point I believe the function should be carried out whether it's by FBI or any other agency is is is not the question we deal with reality right now the Department of Education whether it's the large size medium siiz or the small
▶ 0:53:25size is is the department that deals with this issue yeah I'm not talking about size I the example I just gave you was its existence well not its size it exists correct it it does exist but I I didn't decide to put exists I didn't decide to put into this bill Mr chairman that the Secretary of Education would have responsibilities a b c and d you did I didn't decide that the Department of Education would have obligations to create onerous databases that are updated every 30 days for the American public
▶ 0:53:55to view you've decided that's important for the Department of Education to do which is why you've proposed this bill and I understand the reasons why I'm simply suggesting it'd be probably pretty helpful to say I think there should be a Department of Education to implement the bill that I've proposed that the Department of Education should Implement that doesn't seem controversial I respect your position all right I think the Mr nus yes I'm we're at 1150 and I know that uh the new chairwoman has wanted to limit I appreciate your Indulgence I did I did want to yeld 20
▶ 0:54:25seconds here to my colleague from Pennsylvania who but I'm I'm I appreciate that and I I I will be brief um my colleague from Colorado raised the fact that we are tasked that the Department of Education is tasked with certain responsibilities and one of our colleagues I think who was Mr Langworthy mentioned his interest in making sure that we are addressing anti-Semitism in our educational institutions of course the office of civil rights in the department of education is responsible for doing
▶ 0:54:55those investig ations and um having that redress and with the uh riffing of half the Department of Education in Philadelphia alone they laid off the entire office of civil rights um dozens of people whose job it is to investigate and resolve those complaints so um this is a running theme here that we have the administration basically gutting the functions of government at the same time claiming that there are functions of government that have to be uh have to be completed so
▶ 0:55:25that's all I'd yield back to Mr nus thank you very much and I uh would yield to Mr Scott thank you madam chair and uh chairman wber I want you to know I think the databases do matter and um you know there's been a lot of talk about cuts to certain um higher education organizations that are not for profit don't pay taxes and uh I took the
▶ 0:55:56opport to look up one of them that's been in the Press I'll keep the name to myself right now and I actually know how to pull a 990 report and I pulled the 990s and while they were complaining about oh it was better than $100 million cut from uh the administration that was coming to them that particular not for profit had $4.5 billion dollar in Revenue that exceeded expenses uh for the years 2020 and 2021 and uh I'm going to bring
▶ 0:56:27a piece of legislation over the next couple of weeks that's going to require these institutions that have over $5 billion worth of assets to put a link to 990 um on the landing page of their website I think the public would be a gas at how much cash some of these institutions are sitting on and just how much revenue they have that exceeds expenses and yet anytime they get what what well 100 million is a lot of money
▶ 0:56:57it's a pin prick to some somebody who's got 4 and a half billion in profits over two years uh how much money some of these institutions are sitting on that they've been um gotten in the form of Grants or in this case donations from other countries and I I think the general public has a right to know so uh the databases matter it's transparency in government now there's been a lot of talk about the the reductions and force at the Federal Department of Education
▶ 0:57:28can you tell me how many of those people that um that redu of that reduction in force which is approximately 50% of the Federal Department of Education can you tell me how many of those those people have a job teaching in a zero that's right so we have state Departments of Education we have local Departments of education and then we have a federal bureaucracy that shouldn't even be called a Department of Education and
▶ 0:57:58so what we intend to do is to get rid of that bureaucracy the money to the states can still flow just without the bureaucratic overhead and the micromanagement from the federal government of your state and local Departments of education and and you could actually have more money to hire teachers but again the answer to the number of people that are being laid off at the Federal Department of Education that actually teach in the classroom is zero correct madam chair I yield the remainder of my
▶ 0:58:28time thank you very much I would call on M leder Fernandez thank you um very much Madam chair you know the thing about this uh Bill uh which I think uh the Democrats are struggling with is precisely the fact that uh the president uh with the support of Republicans says it's going to be eliminate the Department of Education and has basically done so by eliminating half of the employees and the idea
▶ 0:58:59that the work will be done anyway is some magical thinking I met with Farmers after the president Froze all of that funding That was supposed to go to Farmers with the Crypt Grant and so many other grants that was just terrifying for them they were saying like what do they think you can't just say the seed is going to get planted and it's going to come up and we're going to you know reap the benefits you need people to put that seed in the
▶ 0:59:30ground you need people to make sure that those fields get watered the same way you need people to make sure that the Department of Education which is constitutionally created and funded works and that's why these lawsuits are going to win because you cannot say it'll happen they have the ability to do it and I think that what we we're seeing here is that there
▶ 1:00:00is a desire to kind of have us talk about things that aren't what our communities are talking about when President Trump and I've got that too when President Trump eliminated said he was going to eliminate the Department of Education you know what my constituents were talking about they were talking about the importance of the federal funding to make sure that they're special needs students got the help they required cuz not all schools
▶ 1:00:31have the money to be able to fund the special education that children who have disabilities or special needs have especially in rural areas I had a teacher who shared with me the child who started Elementary School and could not speak and because of the federal funds that we sent to that school by fourth grade that child was not only speaking but said he wanted to be
▶ 1:01:01a writer and that that is the miracle of education is that it unleashes the potential and sometimes that potential takes a little bit of extra work and so no the federal government is not mandating what you do they are helping our poor schools they are helping students who need help because they are disabled who have special needs and that that's what our constituents are worrying about and that's not what we're talking about here today because
▶ 1:01:31SE this legislation already exists and so when we are turning the back our backs on those kids that's what my constituents are wondering about and you know what Americans are wondering about 64% of Americans want the Department of Education to continue because they know that education is one of those key things that government should be about and you know ranking memb Scott I mean what are the things that you
▶ 1:02:02were hearing about what's happening to the Department of Education and is it whether or not somebody should report whether they had Donuts brought in or whether we should put Canada on the list and this bill is not what the bill was Congress and we are not in the same place we were in last Congress where we have a president who threatens a public university in Maine with retribution just because she disagrees with
▶ 1:02:32them we have a president right now who is vindictive and will go after people for what they say and what they believe and that is what is different about this bill and ranking member Sky didn't know if you wanted to add some more no well I just wanted to respond to the Department of Education does not provide education or provides protect civil rights primarily in K through 12 um disabled students lowincome uh areas
▶ 1:03:03um uh English as a language uh racial minorities trying to eliminate this achievement Gap that's what the department of education does and when it's left to the states we know it doesn't work was left to the States you had segregated uh Public Schools left of the states disabled students with disabilities did not get an education we fund real estate we suff fund education with the real estate tax and so some areas are going to get a lot better deal than
▶ 1:03:33than others and title one comes in tries to um equ equalize um equalize that I mean the the Department of Education is there to guarantee that the um education is a right which was made available to all on equal terms which is language from the round Board of Education case right and the bill billionaire class the billionaire class which is basically running this Administration they don't need Public Schools
▶ 1:04:03well but my constituents in my rural areas really do it's um it's there to make sure that everyone can get an education the actual education the student teachers and what not that state and local but um because we our life experience is when you leave it to the states certain identifiable groups get Left Behind uh that's where the Department of Education comes in and when Congress uses its article one authority
▶ 1:04:33to actually pass laws fund programs fund departments create departments you're not allowed to just say I'm going to get rid of it by executive order and say oh but it shall be lawful when you fire the people who need to carry out those Punk rooms and freeze the funding that is violating the Constitution and we'll see what the courts say and I'm so pleased that until now we've already had about 43
▶ 1:05:04I think different Court opinions telling Trump you cannot continue to do this and violate the constitution unless you have anything else it's good ranking member no nope I will yield back thank you and I would call on Mr Griffith thank you madam chair I would now yield some time to Mr Scott thank you madam chair I'll be brief but um my mother actually taught
▶ 1:05:35uh esol which is English for speakers of other languages and reading recovery so she taught people who uh English was not their native language or who had cognitive challenges in a tital one school system and I can remember quite well as the state representative of that school system meeting with principes and counselors where those students uh were being treated as if they were cookie dough by the federal department of education and local school
▶ 1:06:05systems doing the right thing and giving up some federal funds uh so that they could push forward with what the counselors and the Educators agreed were in the best interest of those students all we're talking about doing is is is not given the Federal Department of Education the ability to withhold funds that uh the local people who actually know the student and care about and want to teach that student um that type of conduct from the Federal Department of Education just block grant it to the states I trust the people at the states I appreciate
▶ 1:06:35the opportunity to uh speak on that because I do know that issue well because my mother actually taught it in a title one system for a long time with that thank you Mr Griffith I appreciate that chairman wber um I have not had an opportunity to read all of the Department of Education uh bills over the years but I am guessing that we didn't specify in the bill how many employees the Department of Education had to hire am I correct in that
▶ 1:07:05you're correct and the department wasn't established in the Constitution yeah so the general lady it was it was a minor difference she she misspoke she said it was uh constitutionally uh passed it was and I got it I got it you're fine it was it was legislatively adopted in accordance with the Constitution is what she meant to to say so yeah I got it I got it it's my time I got it I got it I got it now that said I've heard
▶ 1:07:36a couple things here today and I you know I'm listening to the debate and lots of stuff's going on and um the dut example Mr chairman and I'm speaking to Mr Wahlberg that only would apply to the countries of concern which are currently communist China North Korea Russia and uh Iran am I correcting that you're correct so all you got to do is make sure you're not getting any donuts from those people and the school has nothing
▶ 1:08:06to worry about am I correct that's correct except U fatty acids well fatty assets all right and if it's a gift larger than donuts and it's not a country of concern you have to hit a threshold of $50,000 is that not correct yes all right I appreciate that now one of the things that's been frustrating to me sitting here waiting my my time is is that my colleagues and and let
▶ 1:08:36me say my dear friend uh from Virginia Mr Scott is absolutely sincere when he's concerned about us you know just turning it over without anything to look at taking care of title one and disabled children Etc and I understand that and I speak only for myself I'm going I got a little bit different view than most people because my my friends on the other side of the aisle think the only way to solve this problem Mr
▶ 1:09:06chairman is to hire tens or hundreds of thousands of people to sit in uh either at home or in cubicles or in offices wherever they're at to keep track of everything that's happening in every school system so that every one of my schools complains to me when I go to them that they have so much paperwork to fill out that it's hardly worth it and I submit to you I'm not going to ask you to comment because I'm I'm going out on a limb that I'm willing to go out on
▶ 1:09:36and that I suspect Mr Scott might join me if if he had no other choice I'm not going to ask him either I'm just going to State it if we changed it from having tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of employees in the Washington DC metropolitan area drawing lots of money out of Education and instead set the guidelines up by federal law and then allowed our friends at The Trial Bar to get attorneys fees and court costs for
▶ 1:10:07enforcing the federal requirements I believe we could save the federal government a lot of money you wouldn't have nearly as much paperwork but you would have somebody making sure that those children in Title One schools cuz my kids have attended Title One schools I'm not sure if the school we we can't figure out whether the high school my old my youngest son is in is a title one or not but the elementary schools that my kids went to and in my community are Title One many of the schools in my district are Title One and these are important programs
▶ 1:10:37to take care of disabled children so I'm just submitting to you Mr chairman as we resolve these issues and try to figure out a way to keep the government from spending itself Oblivion that this is one alternative and I understand most of my colleagues on the on the Republican side of here may be uncomfortable adopting my position but that's my position but it tells us that there are more than one way to solve the problem of making sure we take care of these kids just like Mr Scott wants them taken care
▶ 1:11:07of I want them taking care of who have special needs and you would agree that there are many ways we can take care of that besides having tens of thousands of employees in Washington DC perusing paperwork filed by the thousands of schools a across just the Commonwealth of Virginia would you not agree with that um yeah as I was asking Mr wallberg I'm sorry I'm sorry I would agree with that and I look forward to debating that when we have that bill in front of us you have that bill in front of you and Mr
▶ 1:11:37Scott and Mr Scott a different bill you have you have that bill in front of you this B it no no um the um equity and equity and inclusion Equity inclusion Enforcement Act which would overturn sanal decision that prohibits trial lawyers from filing uh we'll get to that another day individual right you you don't have an IND individual right to bring a suit I understand Department of Education has to
▶ 1:12:07do it reclaiming my time if we could rep reclaiming my time for my good colleague uh I'm going to move to another subject and this one this one has has vexed me as well as I've been sitting here we keep hearing about well if somebody violates these rules uh related to you know donations and they don't file properly who's going to take care of it who's going to take care of it what's actually in the bill I mean it may be a lot of work for the secretary but the secretary notifies
▶ 1:12:37the Attorney General to bring action there's a civil action proceding in here when I was reading this over the weekend uh as as things were going forward and I'm reading it I recognize that you really just need the secretary and the Attorney General's office is that not correct that's correct cor and it multiplies over time the penalties do correct but it's still the same same enforcement mechanism the secretary notifies the Attorney General's office and the Attorney General pursues a civil action against the university
▶ 1:13:08correct correct I you back thank you very much uh Mr Jack thank you very much Madam chair uh first and foremost I want to congratulate Mr bomgardner um he is a part of our freshman class we elected him to be our policy representative during our Freshman Class election so I want to you know law him for his leadership on this specific issue and uh chairman Wahlberg I only have one question um you know some schools have argued that this act
▶ 1:13:39uh the fines associated with it are punative and would harm students they also claim foreign influence doesn't directly harm students and I would just welcome your uh your thoughts and uh to to to brief this distinguished committee on uh the enforcement process sees within the deterrent Act I thank the gentleman for the question no it doesn't harm students at all I think it protects them it enables um these universities and colleges to spend the time necessary on education
▶ 1:14:09uh make sure that in doctrination and other uh clandestine activities uh that would come from sources like Russia Iran China North Korea are not taking away from the academic opportunities that they need to learn an education and it also assures uh the taxpayer it assures the constituent it it assures the students that they're going to be spending their time on the necessities of Education as opposed
▶ 1:14:40uh to getting dollars from places that will ultimately destroy the education experience that they have I'm glad you put that on the record and with that Madam Sher yield back thank you very much Mr Norman thank both of you for appearing today you know what's what's interesting and I've got a friend of mine who's attending the first meeting of rules you've been barraged with a lot with questions about Department of Education cutting it cutting the workforce
▶ 1:15:1050% um and you've I've heard things like gutting a function of of government as relates Department of Education not paying for disabled children uh for teachers in the classroom to any the any of the employees of the Department of Education do any of this your answer what no and what's interesting is they keep referring to musk as a
▶ 1:15:40billionaire uh yes he's done very well in the private sector but what he's doing is uncovering facts that the public we've never had a chance to to see now let me ask you and either of these numbers that they're coming up with are either true or false and he's got a tremendous I would assume liability if if they're false but what he's uncovered so far uh on the Doge findings the 20 29
▶ 1:16:10grants Dei grants total $101 million uh one one agency sought to train students to help students understand and interrogate the complex histories you know what that is because I don't umad the 89 contracts worth 881 billion one contractor was paid 1.5 million quote to observe mailing and clerical operations does the 1.5
▶ 1:16:41million go to help disabled children or to repair any of the buildings or to raise the pay of any of the teachers it doesn't appear to so really they're opposed to the findings that American people have a right to know anyway it's their money if a physician lets half of his nursing staff go who do they answer to the public the customers who is the the the it's it's really embarrassing to to say any agency that was formed I think Department of Education was formed in
▶ 1:17:121979 they can just hire as they will because they have no checks and balances does any any uh private institution any any uh business operate like that if they want to stay in business they don't right because they go out of business so it's really laughable that they're against any type of knowing where the money's going none of it is going to the things they they say that they care the most about which most Americans
▶ 1:17:46um but on your bill uh what you what has been uncovered has been staggering the 40 million in unreported research contracts with the CCP the confucious institutes that we find that we looked into six years ago one of my Institute my college and another one from State College you know who started calling me after we started question it lobbyist they had something to gain from it so I I like your bill thank you for
▶ 1:18:16bringing this up if we can't find out this among the the countries that uh that are not our friends then I don't know why we exist up here so thank you for bringing this up and look forward to supporting you Bill thank you very much Mr Norman and thank you both chairman Walberg and Mr Scott um thank you for coming and you are excused
▶ 1:19:35hello we're gonna um I now welcome our second panel or at least half of our second panel representative L and ranking member palone I understand has been delayed so we what thought we would do was go ahead and start um and if he is able to join us or a replacement I understand they were looking for potential replacement we will let him
▶ 1:20:06join in but um I would uh your statement will be submitted for the record and we ask that you summarize your statement in five minutes representative L I welcome your testimony well thank you very much Madam chair and members of the committee really appreciate the opportunity to testify today I'm pleased to speak in support of two resolutions of disapproval introduced under the Congressional review act to repeal some of President Biden's midnight
▶ 1:20:36regulations was on thank you to repeal some of President Biden's midnight regulations implementing unnecessary and costly Energy Efficiency standards for walk-in coolers and freezers and Commercial Refrigeration equipment under the energy policy conservation act EPA doe must evaluate energy St efficiency standards for equipment categories every six years but it may only impose new amended standards if it finds that such standards are technologically
▶ 1:21:06feasible economically Justified and will result in a significant Energy savings neither standard we are discussing today meets these statutory requirements and both should be repealed HJ res24 introduced by the general lady from Oklahoma's Fifth District repeals the department of Energy's final rule implementing amended Energy Efficiency standards for walk-in coolers and walk-in freezers walk-in coolers and freezers are a stap in grocery stores gas stations convenience stores and businesses across the country
▶ 1:21:36these stores are essential in providing American families and households with safe and fresh food and drinks as well as other products that must be stored in code temperatures walk-in coolers and freezers are large expensive pieces of equipment replacing an existing product can often require retrofitting infrastructure to accommodate a new by mandating new efficiency standards which were last amended only a few years ago Doe's final rule forces retailers to observe major upfront costs by purchasing and installing new equipment while juggling
▶ 1:22:07operational disruptions and supply chain disruptions while doe estimates the cost of this final rule to be about $960 million it does not adequately account for installation costs like required restructuring of a building or operational costs that result from store downtime and reduced sales many of these businesses operate within a thin margin sometimes one two or 3% which limits their ability to invest significant capital in mandated Technologies this will
▶ 1:22:37result in extended use of outdated and less efficient equipment or significant price increases the consumer is going to incur that cost this final rule will have an outsized impact on small and independent businesses 90% of food and drink retailers are defined to small businesses and often The Sole Provider of for groceries in rural communities and that's true in my district in fact the small independent grocery industry is a vital piece of the US economy contributing $200 billion in annual e
▶ 1:23:07economic output and employing millions of Americans unfortunately the cost prohibitive nature of this final rule jeopardizes the economic viability of many small businesses especially in Rural and disadvantage areas and Congress should take action to protect small business across the country uh when it comes to the access to food and drink the retail of their choice HJ res75 which is introduced by the gentleman from Texas 12th District appeals the department of Energy's final rule implementing amended Energy
▶ 1:23:38Efficiency standards for commercial refrigeration equipment common referred to as CR a commercial refrigeration equipment encompasses a broad variety of products including refrigerators freezers display cases beverage coolers and more despite compliance for new stent standards for covering equipment becoming effective just 3 years ago the Biden doe finalized new standards that will require energy reductions up to 60% on top the previous standards to meet these standards manufacturers be forced to raise prices
▶ 1:24:08on equipment that is already extremely expensive and there's also uncertainty regarding the technological feasibility of being able to meet these standards as many refrigerants are being phased out by the EPA as prices of CR uh continue to rise project to payback periods for the purchase become more and more unattainable for example one popular refrigerator designed vertically closed transparent commercial refrigerators is estimated by the doe to have a payback of almost 94 years
▶ 1:24:39for retailers many of which are small and family-owned businesses it does not make economic sense to purchase equipment that would take nearly a hundred years to recoup cost Doe's final rule also jeopardizes food safety for consumers as is based the base the standards on F test procedures that do not match real world conditions for example Doe's estimate of a number of door openings in one hour does not reflect a busy store therefore it is likely that the appliance's interior temperature may rise
▶ 1:25:09above the food safe food storage uh conditions risking spoiled food and beverages the Biden do went uh well beyond this Authority in both these standards and will result in finalized rules that will crush small businesses hurt consumers enforce equipment price of Skyrocket we must write the wrongs of the previous administr M the administration by repealing these final rules I urge my colleagues to join me in supporting HJ resz 24 and HJ res75
▶ 1:25:39and I thinkk the chair and you back thank you very much Mr L Mr pone you're recognized thank you chairwoman fox and members of the committee ranking member I am here to oppose HJ resz 24 and HJ res75 and I have to be honest that it really seems like Republicans are just continuing their strategy of Killing Time on the house floor until they finally bring up their budget resolution because we've had so many of these you know
▶ 1:26:10efficiency standards efforts to get rid of the efficiency standards seems like it's just killing time but in any case I strongly oppose both of these resolutions I think they're a distraction from uh what the Republicans are really trying to do which is with the budget resolution to cut Medicaid and also uh the the daily distraction from the daily chaos we see with the Trump administra Administration and the uncertainty about the economy that that President Trump has created and also
▶ 1:26:40uh a distraction from Elon Musk and his minions running around federal agencies cutting uh you know firing people and the rest so as Republicans continue to seed power to the ex executive branch and weaken our own congressional power I just want to say that Democrats are going to continue to fight for the American people now um president Trump and Congressional Republicans made a lot of promises to the American people and one of their main campaign promises was to lower cost
▶ 1:27:10however every day we have more stories about the impacts of tariffs the rising cost of groceries the possible recession that Trump seems contempt to create and instead of pursuing policies that fix these problems of their own making Republicans want to talk about commercial refrigerators and freezer standards and I I have to be clear in saying that the resolutions before us today do absolutely nothing to help the average American first is hjr 24 which targets
▶ 1:27:41recently finalized efficiency standards for walk-in coolers and freezers and then there's HJ res 75 which targets efficiency standards for commercial refrigerators and freezers uh I start out by saying there's no regular order right I think you know by now on the committee that in the Energy and Commerce Committee regular orders Bill gets introduced comes to our committee we have a hearing in the subcommittee we have a markup in the subcommittee we have a markup
▶ 1:28:11in the full committee and then it goes to you and rules before it goes to the floor well none of that has happened right there's no regular order there was no committee process there was no witness testimony so once again Republicans are pretending to know more about Energy Efficiency standards than the experts that waigh in on the standards and were all be guessing as to the actual impacts of these resolutions because we've had no we've had no regular order but first the efficiency standards targeted by these resolutions lower
▶ 1:28:41costs for American businesses walk-in coolers freezers commercial refrigerators are used in restaurants convenience stores and supermarkets across the country by establishing more stringent efficiency standards for these products business business will see significantly lower energy bills the standards targeted by the first one HR res24 for walking coolers and freezers that one saves businesses $6.5 billion and will reduce greenhouse gas emissions uh by 29 million metric tons over 30 years
▶ 1:29:11that's the standards and then the standards targeted by the second resolution HJ res75 these are the commercial refrigerators and the uh and the freezers that that's those standards will save business is 4.6 billion over 30 years will offset The Upfront cost of the new products in about 3 and A2 years and will reduce emissions by nearly 20 million metric tons over 30 years so I just don't understand why Republicans are trying to raise the cost of doing business in America especially at a
▶ 1:29:41moment when their policies are already raising everyday cost for the average American so without these efficiency standards you'll see more strain on the electric grid increase cost to Consumers increase reliance on fossil fuels and as usual um Republicans are doing the building the bidding of their industry and polluter friends rather than working for the American people so for all these reasons Madam chair and members of the committee I strongly oppose HJ res 24 and HJ res75 and he'll back the balance of
▶ 1:30:11my time Madam Madam chair um thank you Mr um I'm always um tempted when somebody comes in to tell me about the fact that we're rejecting experts and you're letting amateurs do things of something I read many many ago that the Titanic was built by experts
▶ 1:30:42and the arc by amateurs and so I will always go with the ark as opposed to the Titanic so palone telling me these things were recommended by experts this doesn't strengthen the case for me but representative L I saw you thinking a little bit about what Mr palom was saying and I
▶ 1:31:12suspect that you've heard concerns from Main Street America regarding the rules and that maybe the statistics you have have don't quite comport with the statistics that Mr palone has well oh thank you madam chair and absolutely correct you know when you go out and look at these numbers that we've seen that have come in we were talking about probably about a billion dollars and you're talking about a lot of businesses out there that are
▶ 1:31:42operating on a 1 to 2% margin and when I say A 1 to two% margin a lot of times it's even less than that then you have another issue out there is that when the uh uh government comes up with the standards the question is can you even meet those these standards where you are today and when you're taking out certain types of refrigerants that are being used today and then you're saying okay find another product that's going to replace it and then also build another type of machine for it then you have another issue so it's a it's a real issue
▶ 1:32:12out there that you have to go really look at on ground level and I tell when I've across my district you know what I've not heard from people saying we want you know these new these higher standards out there that's almost unattainable to be met and it's going to drive up the cost for the consumer and it's also going to hurt a lot of the small independent businesses out there that own own these machines or these uh refrigerators because again it's it's a cost Factor but again you want to make sure that when a standard is put out that it's
▶ 1:32:45attainable um so do the do the final rules meet the statutory requirements prescribed by epca for new and amended standards I I think what you're telling me is that they don't meet the standards to be technologically feasible cost effective and result in in significant Energy savings based on what you're saying well you're absolutely correct because again just to repeat what you just mentioned and I mentioned in my testimony
▶ 1:33:15you know the standards have to be technologically feasible economically Justified and will result in significant Energy savings and we don't see that being improved and but we do we do know this it's going to be much more expensive to be able to try to manufacture one of these products it's going to be much more difficult to go out there and find a refrigerant that's going to work and so you know when you make a standard out there you want to make sure you got something out there that you can attain it by thank you very much Miss cin you're recognized
▶ 1:33:45thank you madam chair um is that correct Mr palone don't don't the regulations when they're developing them have to take into account scientific um the state of play in the current scientific world and whether or not these are actually economically feasible well that's what you're saying is certainly true but I also want to stress that you know doe under the law has an obligation to review efficiency in this case of the coolers and walk-in refrigerators so it's not like they just make the stuff up in other words they're
▶ 1:34:16required periodically to do this review and if they find that they can have more efficient refrigerators or freezers then the required to have their experts look at it and see if if that's the case and the the figures that I gave you um you know I'm not going to repeat him again about the cost savings and the efficiency and not only cost savings to the consumer but also how much less um you know greenhouse gas if you will goes into the atmosphere these are the determinations they made now I I must
▶ 1:34:46say I do like uh the Chum's analogy with with The Arc and the uh who is it the arc and the uh Titanic and the Titanic but I mean the bottom line is if you really um if you really wanted to question what the what department of Energy's done here then we should have had regular order and the department of energy could have come in and um we could have had experts the Republicans or the majority they get to have people come in and say why they don't agree with the department but that never happened
▶ 1:35:16and and that's what gets me um aggravated I guess I remember he's not here anymore but I remember one day we had this on the refrigerators and Mr Massie came in one day and said that he had spent the weekend going around looking at refrigerators and he kind of chastised me because I have well I'm not the expert you know what I mean I don't what is the point of my spending the weekend not that I'm trying to be critical of them because I like them but what would be the point of my going around to restaurants and checking out refrigerators I'm not the experts
▶ 1:35:46the experts have spoken and they're saying they're these savings right and yet we've had nothing on the other side that set us not true because there never been regular order right and I share that frustration as well as the one you opened with that this is not a good use of this body's time I mean we just all just spent a week in District I did two town halls in my district and one in another District where the congressman wasn't showing up and nobody asked about energy standards for refrigerators whether Walkin
▶ 1:36:17or otherwise what they did ask about was lost jobs due to Doge cuts and layoffs due to tariff Wars and they wanted to they had a lot of concerns about Medicaid and snap and cuts to Social Security and the VA and the post office but not once not once did Refrigerator standards come up because that's not the moment that we're in and we really should be addressing the unconstitutional and illegal incursions
▶ 1:36:47upon congress's article one authority to determine what kind of services are being provided to the American people and are funded for the American people and not having some Rogue billionaire cutting things along with his band of 20-y olds so um I don't know did you hear something different at your town halls no and I we were last week I had not only a town hall but you know went to so many different meetings and all the the biggest concern people had was the possibility of a recession right because you
▶ 1:37:17know consumer confidence is down the markets goes up and down every day people are scared that's what that's what they're worried about they're afraid that Trump that President Trump is uh you know not making things more affordable in fact making them less affordable and that we might face an economic downturn as a result of his policies and Mr L you didn't have a town hall where people talked about refrigerator standards did you I tell you when I was I was at my district all
▶ 1:37:47last week and one of the things that people do worry about are food prices and again if all of a sudden you're having uh cost going up or or in a lot of cases you might have fewer types of choices because these uh companies they won't be able to manufacture the refrigerators and the freezers and at the same time consumers aren't going to have that choice as what they want and so people want to make sure that prices aren't going up they're going down but what we're going to see through this with uh if we don't get these two CR
▶ 1:38:17is done we're going see prices going up okay um of course this does bring the price of running your refrigerator down but oh I do see you didn't have a town hall last week right because I was out my district and also I tell where also was I was in grocery stores buying groceries and I have a lot of people come up and I'm sure like all members do you have people come up you're very concerned about what the costs are and they don't want to see costs going up but we'll see costs definitely go up if we see these go into effect I would suggest that
▶ 1:38:47the costs will go up much more from the Tariff Wars that the president is engaged in but with that I would deal back thank you Miss scandin Mr Scott you recognized um Miss leer Fernandez you recognize thank you uh you know it's uh sort of like we have this uh Republican fridge fetish right they keep they keep bringing these Appliance bills that raise the cost of operating
▶ 1:39:18appliances right so their bills make it more expensive for consumers to have their toasters their refrigerators you know freedom for refrigerators it would almost seem comical except for that we are in a constitutional crisis we are in a place where president Trump is ignoring the Constitution he's saying he's going to know where the courts they want to impeach judges because they don't like the decision
▶ 1:39:49that is not consistent with the Constitution and Republic an seem to be too afraid to stand up for either the Constitution or for their constituents because they're not showing up at Town Halls uh representative I understand that there actually was a town hall that there was an M chair for you that might not have been too nice um but that you know the issues that were raised were farmers who were worried about the USDA Cuts uh the Social
▶ 1:40:19Security the cuts to Social Security where people are starting to not see their checks you know these cuts to the Department of Education uh and the seemingly co-president musk running a muuk and you know people are talking about the rising cost but they're worried because they understand that Trump's tariffs raise costs so they're worried about how expensive eggs are getting and then you're going to make
▶ 1:40:50it more expensive to put them in the refrigerator because the refrigerator is going to cost you more to run uh and I will say that we have heard that there are some of our Republican colleagues who have uh had town halls and I looked at some of those didn't see any of them raise commercial fridges at Senator grassley's Town Hall he was asked about his work on oversight and he was to the quote from one of his constituents was Trump and his people are moving very rapidly toward
▶ 1:41:20a dictatorship and an oligarchy unquote representative Hagerman heard from a Department of Agriculture employee who had helped wyomi Farmers deal with the drought she was fired despite the fact that she had had high marks and she was concerned about the devastating impact of Joe of dodgy Do's Cuts I call it dodgy because they don't seem to tell us anything any time that what was going to happen to American farmers with those cuts representative flood heard from Nebraskans
▶ 1:41:50about Cuts ranging from cuts to the veteran care to life saving breast cancer research one constituent asked why is Elon Musk a better person to audit our government for race Fraud and Abuse than the inspector's General that Donald Trump fired none of these town halls and red States districts blue States seem at all concerned about the bill we're dealing with here except for uh ranking member tell us
▶ 1:42:21again how much the regulations save uh the small businesses and restaurants uh over time because this is a cost saving regulation that they're going return is that right yeah I mean the the first the resolution that deals with the walk-in coolers and freezers saves businesses 6.5 billion and yes from the doe and will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 21 29 million metric tons
▶ 1:42:51over 30 years and the stands as targeted by uh the resolution relating to commercial refrigerators and freezers save businesses 4.6 billion over 30 years um and you know I know he didn't U um Bob didn't say anything about The Upfront course but a lot of times I get that from the Republicans oh there's upfront course but what these what doe says is the up the offset this will offset
▶ 1:43:21The Upfront course of of the new products in about three and A2 years so you know so in three years you were paid back I I read the analysis in three years you get paid back in Energy savings right so three years you get those savings over 30 as opposed to the yeah so in three years and then after that you're just saving money exactly so I don't understand why and that's the case with all of these Appliance bills that we've had right that uh
▶ 1:43:52you save money money the consumer saves money the small business saves money the restaurants restaurants operate on very tight margins and if they can save money over time that is really cure and those those those Walkin refrigerators and stuff they last for a while so they're going to be saving you money for a good while so I I I just don't understand uh why when Americans are so concerned as as the you know representative uh noted uh about
▶ 1:44:22cost but this is not what they care care about they care about the fact that those Trump tariffs are going to cost them so much and everything he's done so far has made life more expensive we cannot avoid Trump that's just the reality of what we're facing with that I yeld back Madam chair thank you Miss leer Fernandez Mr Griffith thank you chair Mr chairman is there anything that you would like to add that
▶ 1:44:52uh you haven't already had an opportunity to say well I I think the gentleman and Madam chair you know when we're talking about costs I think that's important because if you go back just to looking at what doe said when we were talking about the commercial refrigeration equipment and this again this is what you're talking about when you're looking at refrigerators freezers display cases coolers and more that Doe uh you know you're looking at that you're looking at about a 994 year payback 94 years
▶ 1:45:22I I'm not sure how many stores can make it for 994 years and I know a lot of people can't afford a 94 year payback anything else Mr chairman well again I I highly recommend and ask the for passage of both c s cras by the um rules committee I appreciate that I you back Madam chair thank you Mr Jack you recognized thank you very much Madam chair
▶ 1:45:53I'll just uh speak for a moment um Mr L if I could so I I count 38 independent groceries in my district and you know the estimates would be that two to 3,000 people within my communities uh are employed by Independent Grocers so I'm just curious if you could walk me through if these final rules are not repealed what can my constituents both the small businesses directly impacted and the consumers they serve expect to happen to their local food and drink retailers well I think the
▶ 1:46:23gentleman for the question you know again first of all you're going to see a problem that you're going to have to be able to meet making the uh refrigerators or the freezers that are going to be out there that's going to be the first question can the manufacturers even produce number two can they get the refrigerant now the number three be the next problem you're going to have is it's going to increase the cost for the consumer because the retailer is going to have to go out there and buy new equip if they can afford it if you're a small uh mom and pop type place you're going to have a problem on there to be
▶ 1:46:53able to do that then you're going to have an issue that if you don't have enough freezers you're going to start reducing consumer choice and so that consumer Choice goes down because all of a sudden what you thought you were buying multiple things you might only have a choice for one or two things so you're going to see costs going up Choice going down and it's going to be hopefully that you know these people out there that are out there trying to make a living on a one to two to 3% margin can survive thank you I yield back thank you very much Mr govern
▶ 1:47:24well Madam chair I mean today we've seen a we've read about a national security breach um we're reading about how Elon Musk is trying to screw around with Security uh the tariffs are raising prices on everybody as we speak uh and so um talking about uh walk in refrigeration and freezers uh is not high on my list right now so I will yield back thank you Mr McGovern Mr Norman you're recognized Mr lot to thank you for bringing these
▶ 1:47:54to the to our attention um who pays the who pays the cost of electricity on the 150,000 stores well that would be the uh consumer and the user out there so if you're a convenience store out there you have to buy that electricity so the federal government doesn't come pay the uh any electricity cost they just want to issue these mandates that they think uh they can they're more they're more of an
▶ 1:48:24expert than the people investing their hard-earned money run trying to run a business and what does this do to the to the that entrepreneur who can't afford this and not cannot afford or wait 99 years to get a payback well again I think the gentleman for the question it comes down to what happens well if you can't afford the uh walk-in cooler you can't afford the freezer for the consumer out there then a sudden they stop coming to your business and all of a sudden
▶ 1:48:54it's a kind of a it's a kind of a cascading effect because not only does that store go out of business people lose their jobs and then the consumer out there is like okay where am I going to go and I'm sure like in your District like in mine you have a lot of rural area that that convenience store might be the closest thing you have to the nearest grocery store so that's where you go and I know in a lot of my small towns you might be 10 15 miles between stores in that little store in that town is what is that focal point so you're absolutely correct the
▶ 1:49:25federal government's not paying the cost it's it comes down to that store and if they you know it might be they say we're going to have to pass that on the consumer but at some point the consumer says we can't afford that either so the the taxpayer gets uh the consumer is the one that suffers the consequences of not not having more stores to shop at and Shop their product because the owner who's putting his hard- earned money up not the federal government cannot afford to do that at this time that's correct well thank you for putting this up and it's a uh
▶ 1:49:55both these bills should pass I yell back thank you Mr Norman I want to thank our Witnesses again for being here today um you're excused seeing no other members wishing to test thank you madam chair thank you seeing no other members wishing to testify on HR 1048 HJ res 24 or HJ res25 this closes the hearing portion of of
▶ 1:50:41meeting the chair will be in receipt of a motion from the gentleman from Virginia Mr Griffith thank you madam chair I move the committee Grant HJ resz 24 providing for Congressional disapproval under chapter 8 of Title 5 United States St code of the rule submitted by the department of energy relating to energy conservation program energy conservation standards for walk-in coolers and walk-in freezers a closed rule the rule waves All Points of order against consideration of the joint resolution the rule provides that the joint resolution shall be considered is read the rule waves All Points of order against
▶ 1:51:11Provisions in the joint resolution the rule provides one hour of General debate equally divided and control by the chair and ranking minority member of the committee on Energy and Commerce or their respective designes the rule provides one motion to recommit the rule F further provides for consideration of HJ res75 providing for Congressional disapproval under chapter 8 of Title 5 United States code of the rule submitted by the office of Energy Efficiency and renewable energy Department of energy is relating relating to energy conservation program energy conservation standards
▶ 1:51:41for commercial refrigerators freezers and refrigerator freezers under a closed rule the rule waves All Points of order against consideration of the joint resolution the rule provides that the joint resolution shall be considered is read the rule waves All Points of order against Provisions in the joint resolution the rule provides one hour of General debate equally divided and controlled by the chair and ranking me minority member of the committee on Energy and Commerce or respective designes the rule provides one motion to recommit the rule further provides for consideration of
▶ 1:52:21hr1485 on education and Workforce or their respective designes the rule provides that in lie of the amendment in the nature of a substitute recommended by the committee on education and Workforce Now printed in the bill an amendment in the nature of a substitute consisting of the text of Rules Committee print 11 19-1 shall be considered as adopted and the bill is amended shall be considered as read the rule waves All Points of order against Provisions in the bill as amended the rule makes an order only those amendments printed in the rules committee report each Amendment may be offered only in the order
▶ 1:52:51printed in the may be offered only by a member designated in the report shall not excuse me shall be considered as read shall be debatable for the time specified in the report equally divided and controlled by the proponent and an opponent shall not be subject to Amendment and shall not be subject to demand for division of the question all points of order against the amendment is print amendments printed in the report are weighed finally the rule provides one motion to recommit I so move thank you Mr Griffin
▶ 1:53:22you've now heard the motion is there any discussion or Amendment to the rule yes Madam chair I have I have an amendment to the rule I move the committee make an order amendment number 12 to HR 1048 offered by representatives hulahan and Hayes which states that the bill shall not go into effect if the Department of Education is dismantled or any funds made available by previous appropriation acts to the Department of Education are revoked or altered to reduce the authority in function of the Department of Education Madam chair the department of education does something that the underlying bill
▶ 1:53:52here doesn't do it actually helps people it helps students if the department is dismantled we could have disruptions to FAFSA delays in resolving fixes to borrowers accounts and wider educational disparities for students with disabilities and children from low-income backgrounds but clearly um the bill before us recognizes that the Department of Education has some value so this amendment is simple if you actually want the department of educ if you if you actually want uh the
▶ 1:54:22this bill vests with more authority to exist then you can't dismantle it this is common sense and I yield back is there any further discussion on amendment hearing none the question is on the amendment all those in favor signify by saying I I I those opposed say no no in the opinion chair the NOS a the am agree to the the gan's asked for a roll call the clerk will call the rooll Mrs fishbo no Mr fishbach
▶ 1:54:53no Mr Norman no Mr Norman no Mr Roy Mrs hin no Mrs hin no Mr Langworthy Mr Scott no Mr Scott no Mr Griffith no Mr Griffith no Mr Jack no Mr Jack no Mr McGovern I Mr mcgn I miss scandin I miss scandin I Mr nus Miss L Fernandez I miss l fernandz i uh Madam chair no Madam chair no
▶ 1:55:24clerk will report the total uh three y seven Nays the NOS have it the amendment is not agreed to uh are there other amendments or discussion um hearing none the question is on the rule all those in favor say I I I those opposed no
▶ 1:55:58no um in the opinion the chair the eyes have it the motion is agreed to I ask for a roll call Madam chair Mr McGovern's asked for a recorded vote the clerk will call the role Mrs fishbach yes Mrs fishbach I Mr Norman Mr Norman I Mr Roy Mrs hin hi Mrs hin I Mr Langworthy Mr Scott I Mr Mr Scott I Mr Griffith I Mr Griffith I Mr Jack I Mr Jack I Mr McGovern
▶ 1:56:28no Mr McGovern no Miss scandin no Miss scandin no Mr nus Miss leer Fernandez no Miss leer Fernandez no Madam chair I Madam chair I the clerk will report the total seven Ys three Nays the eyes have it the motion to report is agreed to accordingly I will be managing this rule for the majority Mr nus for the minority Mr nus for the minority is there any
▶ 1:57:00discussion if not then the rules committee meeting is adjourned thank you
▶ 1:59:21e for