Rightsizing Government

Benefits Fraud and Improper PaymentsHouse Oversight and Government Reform · 2025-02-05 · 119th Congress
The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee held this hearing to examine efforts to reduce the size and cost of the federal government, including the newly created Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), and to hear how Iowa consolidated state agencies under Governor Kim Reynolds. Begins at 0:19:35
Transcript
Highlights

Title

Government efficiency, DOGE, and lessons from Iowa's state reorganization

Purpose

The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee held this hearing to examine efforts to reduce the size and cost of the federal government, including the newly created Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), and to hear how Iowa consolidated state agencies under Governor Kim Reynolds. Witnesses included Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds, Citizens Against Government Waste president Tom Schatz, and USC professor Dr. William Resh, with the hearing quickly dominated by a partisan dispute over Elon Musk's role and access to federal data systems. Begins at0:19:35

Who spoke

Chairman James Comer (R-KY)0:19:35: Opened by praising DOGE and President Trump's push to root out waste, fraud and abuse0:20:06, citing over 4,100 federal agencies/sub-agencies and GAO findings of 43 duplicative job-training programs across nine agencies0:23:40; later argued the government must "tighten our belts" and pledged to work with DOGE4:54:20.

Ranking Member Gerry Connolly (D-VA)0:25:41: Warned the administration's actions mirror Project 2025 and described a hiring freeze, return-to-office order, purge of career civil servants, and firing of 17 inspectors general0:28:43; moved to subpoena Elon Musk to testify0:32:15; later pressed Gov. Reynolds on whether a wealthy donor directed Iowa's reforms, which she denied1:12:36; closed by arguing "rightsizing" requires looking at revenue, not just cuts4:51:19.

Governor Kim Reynolds (R-IA), witness0:48:53: Testified Iowa cut its cabinet from 37 to 16 departments, eliminated 21 agencies and 600 open positions, and saved $217 million in 18 months0:53:26; said the effort included no layoffs1:13:06 and cut physician licensing time from 65 to 3 days0:53:56; excused from the hearing at 2 p.m. due to a scheduling conflict3:34:54.

Tom Schatz, President, Citizens Against Government Waste, witness0:54:56: Cited the 1982 Grace Commission's savings and CAGW's "Prime Cuts" report projecting $5.1 trillion in savings over five years0:56:27; noted GAO found 133 duplicative federal broadband programs across 15 agencies0:58:29; testified selling excess federal land could generate about $15 billion over three years1:10:34.

Dr. William Resh, USC public policy professor, witness1:00:00: Warned that mass firings and "Schedule F" reclassification would strip job protections from career civil servants and increase politicization risk1:02:31; testified DOGE's access to Treasury payment systems and other federal data poses conflict-of-interest and national security risks given Musk's federal contracts1:27:15.

Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ)1:05:20: Compared DOGE to Musk's Twitter/X layoffs and asked Reynolds how she identified waste in Iowa1:06:33; highlighted her sale of ~5,400 acres of state land1:09:04.

Rep. Nancy Mace (R-SC)1:16:38: Read a list of USAID grants (e.g., $2 million for gender-affirming care in Guatemala, $4.3 million for HIV services in South Africa) and asked witnesses yes/no whether each advanced U.S. interests1:18:39; her use of a term describing transgender people prompted a parliamentary objection from Rep. Robert Garcia1:21:41.

Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC)1:23:42: Said the hearing was designed "to lay the predicate to gut the nonpartisan federal civil service"1:24:44 and touted her bills on federal pay compression and OPM data-breach identity protection1:25:44.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)1:28:45: Asked Reynolds about federal mandates preventing Iowa reforms; she cited SNAP eligibility system delays and a years-long wait for CMS approval on a Medicaid managed-care platform1:31:17.

Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA)1:35:18: Raised concerns about DOGE bypassing the DOD's vetted security clearance process (DCSA) to grant top-secret access to new White House staff1:36:50, asking Resh about risks to classified data1:37:50.

Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC)1:40:31: Asked Reynolds about the impact of consolidating Iowa's cabinet and boards/commissions1:40:52.

Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL)1:45:55: Pressed Schatz on rising egg and grocery prices despite Trump's campaign promises, tying it to avian flu rather than executive orders1:46:26; grilled Reynolds on Musk's tweet calling Lutheran Family Services a "money laundering operation"1:49:28.

Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ)1:50:59: Discussed Iowa's 2021 lawsuit challenging OSHA's vaccine mandate and his NOA legislation to return workplace safety authority to states1:51:29; asked Schatz about line-item budget transparency1:53:31.

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA)1:56:32: Questioned Schatz on whether cutting the Department of Education would mean cutting Title One ($18B), Pell Grants, and IDEA ($14.2B) funding for disabled students1:57:03; got Schatz to agree Musk lacks authority to unilaterally halt congressionally appropriated payments1:58:34.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)2:02:06: Argued the country has drifted for 40 years toward debt and federal overreach and framed DOGE as a needed course correction2:02:36; asked Reynolds about shifting federal responsibilities to states2:06:08.

Rep. Shontel Brown (D-OH)2:07:38: Cited Ohio Social Security field office closures and asked Reynolds yes/no questions about a 2023 Iowa bill restricting the state auditor and about $4.15 million in Iowa sexual-harassment settlements2:10:40.

Rep. Gary Palmer (R-AL)2:12:41: Cited the Clinton-era "Reinventing Government" initiative that cut 426,000 federal jobs2:13:12; proposed reimagining the Department of Education as a "Department of Workforce Development"2:15:44.

Rep. Melanie Stansbury (D-NM)2:18:15: Delivered an extended criticism of Musk's access to Treasury systems and USAID/CIA/DOJ disruptions, citing a town hall where 12,000 constituents joined2:23:19.

Rep. Michael Cloud (R-TX)2:23:19: Defended DOGE as consistent with Trump's campaign promises and criticized "mission creep" at the CDC and Department of Education2:25:19.

Rep. Robert Garcia (D-CA)2:30:52: Cited that Musk donated $277 million to Trump's campaign and gained $200 billion in wealth in one year2:31:53; argued DOGE is really a scheme to fund tax cuts via cuts to Education, Labor, and eventually Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid2:32:24.

Rep. Eli Crane (R-AZ)2:35:54: Listed USAID spending items (e.g., $1.5M for DEI in Serbia) and questioned Resh's credentials versus Reynolds' business experience2:36:24.

Rep. Maxwell Frost (D-FL)2:40:57: Pressed Reynolds on what would happen if Medicaid funding disappeared and whether she supports eliminating FEMA; she said funding "wouldn't disappear" and FEMA should be "looked at"2:41:282:45:29.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA)2:46:59: Noted Musk publicly signaled willingness to serve before the election2:47:30 and announced her new DOGE subcommittee2:49:02; asked Reynolds to quantify Iowa's savings ($217 million)2:50:02.

Rep. Summer Lee (D-PA)2:53:04: Cited the cabinet's combined net worth exceeding $460 billion and Musk's roughly 100 government contracts worth $3 billion across 17 agencies2:54:04.

Rep. William Timmons (R-SC)2:58:07: Argued Musk does not have access to Americans' personal financial data, citing Treasury Secretary Bessent's assurance3:00:39.

Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D-TX)3:03:11: Noted the federal debt rose $7.8 trillion under the first Trump term3:04:11 and questioned Reynolds about Iowa's elected treasurer's independent control of state funds3:05:11.

Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO)3:08:43: Asked Resh about DOGE's proposal to defund EcoHealth Alliance tied to Wuhan lab research3:10:13 and about NGO funding for migrants3:11:43.

Rep. Greg Casar (D-TX)3:14:45: Called for "firing Elon Musk," citing his $154 billion net worth increase and OSHA violations at Tesla/SpaceX facilities, including the death of worker Lonnie LeBlanc3:18:47.

Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH)3:20:18: Questioned Schatz on whether the federal government is "too big," citing $517,000 paid by FDA to Politico for 37 subscriptions3:23:19.

Rep. Eric Burlison (R-MO)3:35:25: Cited Social Security's projected insolvency in eight years and Medicare in ten3:36:26; asked Reynolds whether she'd welcome an unpaid Musk-style team in Iowa, which she said she would3:39:27.

Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA)3:40:58: Noted Iowa is 90% white and 4.5% Black, questioning its use as a national governance model3:41:28; cited a $122,000 savings figure from eliminating Iowa boards/commissions and rising Iowa maternal mortality and food insecurity3:42:58.

Rep. Emily Randall (D-WA)3:45:30: Cited a Kitsap Naval Base employee working without a day off while facing "daily harassment"3:47:31; asked Resh about impacts of 5–10% VA staffing cuts given existing shortages3:49:34.

Rep. Pat Fallon (R-TX)3:51:05: Cited per-pupil education spending rising from $961 to nearly $20,000 since 1979 with flat test scores3:53:06; asked Reynolds about Iowa's $217 million savings3:54:36.

Rep. Suhas Subramanyam (D-VA)3:56:37: Asked Reynolds whether Iowa froze all spending or gave outside consultants access to payment systems and classified data during its reforms; she said no to both3:58:08.

Rep. Kevin Mullin (D-CA)4:01:09: (identified as "Mr. Men" in transcript, likely Mullin) Explained public goods economic theory, argued the $2 trillion DOGE cut target would require touching Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid4:39:42; asked Resh whether the Constitution allows a president or special employee to bypass Congress's appropriations power, which Resh said it does not4:41:13.

Rep. Robert Garcia (D-CA), parliamentary inquiry1:21:41: Objected to Rep. Mace's language as a slur against the transgender community.

Rep. Kelly Ashley Bobert-area related motions/clerk roll call0:37:10: Committee clerk conducted roll call on the motion to subpoena Musk, which failed 20–190:44:21.

Rep. Randy Fine / Dr. Fox (R-NC) [2:40:31 / 0:32:46]: Dr. Foxx moved to table the subpoena motion0:32:46 and later asked Reynolds about reorganization impacts1:40:52.

Rep. Shomari Figures / Bell (D-MO)4:18:21: Cited administration's telework orders and questioned Resh on effects of the "Fork in the Road" resignation offer4:19:51.

Rep. Craig Goldman / Gill (R-TX)4:23:24: Cited examples of federal spending including a $400,000 study on rats and cocaine, and $3 million for "girl-centered climate action"4:24:55.

Rep. Lateefah Simon (D-CA)4:28:56: Described visiting a children's hospital and a housing nonprofit affected by funding freezes; argued DOD's unaudited budget deserves more scrutiny than small USAID grants4:31:27.

Rep. Brian Jack (R-GA)4:33:59: Discussed his prior work relocating federal agencies outside Washington, citing Schatz's testimony that 17 of 24 agencies use only 25% of their office space4:34:59.

Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-MI)4:44:45: Submitted a constituent letter on funding freezes and pressed Schatz and Resh on whether Musk "cares about" affected constituents4:46:46.

Key moments

The hearing opened with a contentious procedural fight: Connolly moved to subpoena Elon Musk0:32:15, the motion to table it failed on party lines 20–19 in a lengthy roll call0:44:21, after which Comer noted Democrats could have named Musk as their own minority witness but chose a professor instead0:44:21.

Governor Reynolds testified Iowa consolidated its cabinet from 37 to 16 departments, cut 21 agencies, eliminated 600 open positions, removed 12,200 regulations in year one, and saved $217 million in 18 months without layoffs0:53:261:13:06.

Reynolds revealed Iowa reviewed 800 agency programs and found "not one" had a KPI, metric, or accountability measure tied to it before her reforms1:30:16.

Rep. Mace's rapid-fire questioning of witnesses on USAID grants (e.g., $2M for transgender health in Guatemala, $17.5M for voluntary male circumcision overseas) drew a parliamentary objection from Rep. Garcia over use of a term he called a slur against transgender people1:18:391:21:41.

Rep. Subramanyam asked Reynolds directly whether Iowa's outside consultants got access to payment systems, personal health data, or classified information during its reorganization; she answered "no" to each3:58:08.

Rep. Timmons asserted, citing Treasury Secretary Bessent, that DOGE employees do not have access to Americans' personal financial data at Treasury, contradicting Democratic colleagues' claims3:00:39.

Dr. Resh testified that DOGE's access to sensitive government data raises conflict-of-interest concerns given Musk's business entanglements in satellite, defense, and AI contracting, and that no one knows what servers are being used1:38:201:38:51.

Rep. Khanna got Schatz to state that Musk "should not stop payments" that Congress has authorized and appropriated, while Schatz declined to say Title One, Pell Grant, or IDEA funding should be cut outright1:58:342:00:34.

Rep. Casar cited Musk's $154 billion wealth increase since the election and OSHA violations tied to Tesla and SpaceX, including the death of a SpaceX worker, Lonnie LeBlanc3:16:163:18:47.

Reynolds was excused early at 2 p.m. for a scheduling conflict3:34:54, after which several Democratic members noted her state-level process (transparent, legislature-involved, no layoffs) contrasted with DOGE's approach.

Metadata

CommitteeHouse Oversight and Government Reform
Chamber / CongressHouse · 119th Congress
Date2025-02-05
TypeHearing
Witnesses
The Honorable Kim Reynolds — Governor, State of Iowa
Mr. Thomas Schatz — President, Citizens Against Government Waste
Dr. William Resh — Associate Professor of Public Policy & Management / C.C. Crawford Professor in Management and Performance, Sol Price School of Public Policy / University of Southern California
Videoyoutube
Transcript531 caption blocks · 43,602 words · 4:58:12 runtime
EventCongress.gov 117856