▶ 0:00:19well good morning like to call the subcommittee on energy will come to order and the chair recognizes himself for five minutes for opening statement excuse me um let's see want to thank all of our Witnesses for being with us today and today's hearing on powering America's future unleashing American Energy
▶ 0:00:50today we're discussing the state of our nation's Energy System reviewing Biden administration's actions that have undermined our economic and National Security but most importantly looking forward to how our subcommittee will meet our ever expanding need for more energy in the last Congress I asked every witness that appeared before us in the subcommittee the same question do we need more energy or less energy and Al all those Witnesses all responded by saying we need more the US Energy Information Administration projects
▶ 0:01:20the United States will consume record amounts of electricity in 2024 and 2025 the department of Energy's Berkeley lab as estimates that us data center load growth which already encompasses half the data centers in the world is projected to double or triple by the 2028 last Congress we heard extensive testimony for grid experts and operators about the impacts the burd of regulations like the clean power plan 2.0 that would drive out resources
▶ 0:01:51that are essential to keeping the lights on and our economy flowing households and businesses alike continue to struggle under high energy prices that have followed excessive federal spending and anti-fossil fuel policy decisions of the Biden Administration in 2008 House Republicans first showcase the all the above energy strategy that supports this diverse mix of energy sources without the government picking winners or losers which is better for meeting demand and better for the environment inter intermittent
▶ 0:02:21energy sources such as solar and wind have a role to play in a diverse Energy Mix however we must maintain our base load power that is delivered from fossil fuels nuclear and power while resources has strained the Generation the Next Generation while resources are strain the Next Generation economy will require massive amounts of reliable affordable and abundant energy my district in Ohio is homeed over 86,000 manufacturing jobs and is seeing the data center energy
▶ 0:02:51demand arrive when it comes to winning the AI race all Energy Solutions need to be on the table small modular nuclear reactors traditional nuclear power intermittent Renewables batteries natural gas fuel cells just the name a few but our nation's Energy Futures are are turning point and the world's not going to wait for us avario Nations actively seek to exploit our energy demand to underman undermine our position on the world stage unfortunately misguided actions from the Biden Administration
▶ 0:03:21like the LG export ban handicap diplomatic tools of energy abundance instead the Biden's administration's electrification or nothing in the rush to Green approach has only emboden adversaries like communist China who manipulate critical mineral markets and limit Experts of key materials for our manufacturing sector in defense industrial base meanwhile China is doubling down on their efforts to gain a leadership position in the global race for AI development in the Next Generation economy here's the good news it's a new day in
▶ 0:03:51americ and president Trump has led a necessary reset of our national energy strategy as we look to the future of our nation's energy needs this sub would be essential to ensure our electric grid is secure against Psy physical and cyber attacks and natural disasters we unlock our abundant resources through permitting reforms that can ensure Innovations and advancements are happening here in America we'll build on the bipartisan success of the advanced Act and the nuclear fuel Security Act to usher in Next Generation
▶ 0:04:22nuclear discuss innovated solutions for spent fuel like Recycling and storage and expand America's nuclear fuel infrastructure to restore our Global nuclear leadership this committee must address the growing energy demand and all the issues that come with it I look forward to the constructive dialogue today as we embark on a path to reassert North American Energy dominance and with that I yield 30 seconds uh to my friend the gentleman from Colorado's eth District
▶ 0:04:52thank you Mr chairman and I just want to take a quick moment today I'm proud to introduce uh Mr Gary Arnold who serves as the business manager of the pipe fiddles uh Local Union 208 based out of Denver Colorado local 208 represents almost 2,000 highly skilled jobs and hardworking Journeymen and women many of whom who um live and work in my district and local 208 also covers all of my district looking forward to the vital perspective that you're going to offer about the passionate Workforce that every energy um product requires uh and project requires so
▶ 0:05:23thank you for being here and Mr chairman yield back Mr chairman will you yield yeah I I recognize lady thank you I just want to add my welcome to my friend Mr Arnold who's from my district it's great to have you here you back well thank you very much and uh chair yields back the balance of his time and the chair now recognizes the general lady from Florida's 14th District the ranking member of the subcommittee for five minutes for an opening statement well thank you chairman L and congratulations to
▶ 0:05:53you on uh having the gavel of this great subcommittee and welcome to all of the new members on the subcommittee um the Democrats and I we look forward to working on policy that delivers more affordable and reliable energy to hardworking Americans and businesses uh we have an incredible opportunity to build on the successes of the past few years and the advances in lower cost clean energy grid resilience Innovation and efficiency we can
▶ 0:06:23all take great pride in the new factories the jobs the progress activated by the historic infrastructure law of 2021 and the clean energy and climate resilience law of 2022 because over the past few years over 750 new or expanded clean energy projects have been announced along with 400,000 new jobs and $422 billion
▶ 0:06:53of private sector being invested because of what we have done across Across America and in most districts represented in this committee new battery plants clean vehicle factories and solar and wind manufacturing centers are breathing new life into communities local economies and small businesses these are good paying many union jobs that can support a family that's why the early actions of the Trump Administration
▶ 0:07:24are caused for concern including the firing of the Department of energy Inspector General who is responsible for rooting out waste Fraud and Abuse nothing in the early Trump executive orders is designed to lower energy prices or help hardworking Americans instead across the board the actions are a gift to Big oil companies they're designed to boost their profits at the expense of Working Families across this country it's outlandish that the
▶ 0:07:54president declared an energy emergency at a time when the United States is producing more oil and gas than any country in history America is the second largest producer of wind energy and a top five producer in solar energy we lead the world in nuclear energy and biofuel production America is a dominant energy superpower the stop work order on energy projects now is delaying construction projects in our communities
▶ 0:08:24it's causing companies to lay off workers uh it's causing delays and up upgrading transmission lines and building battery factories and bringing nuclear plants back online and all of this adds up it uh frankly when you look at what's going on it's illegal and we're not going to stand for it we're going to fight back to make sure that these dollars get to where they're supposed to go and build the energy clean energy economy that is important to all of us
▶ 0:08:54future projections show and the chairman is right that we're going to need to generate more Electric electricity but the president's prescription for the so-called emergency is to unnecessary complicate energy projects and to ban lower cost renewable energy sources like wind and solar it doesn't do anything to lower cost for families and businesses and frankly it doesn't make sense until you understand that it's just a gift to polluters in Big
▶ 0:09:24Oil we are in the grip grips of a real emergency however that's the heating climate which is leading to higher bills stronger hurricanes extreme heat more destructive floods and wildfires and if we don't reduce climate pollution the cost of these catastrophes will continue to grow while our neighbors back home struggle to rebuild their homes to afford their air conditioning bills to afford property insurance um the climate stresses are not just
▶ 0:09:54about the weather they're about our wallets and another red flag in the president's early executive orders that will hit consumers with higher energy bills is his call to expand liquefied natural gas exports because studies show that increasing LG exports will raise Energy prices for American families exporting gas outside America raises cost on small businesses and industries that rely heavily on it plus China is the single biggest LNG importer in the entire world the least we could do
▶ 0:10:25would be not would be to ensure that our LG exports are not subsided izing China's industrial buildout at the cost of higher domestic gas prices for Americans we're in a great competition with China on electric vehicles they want to put our automakers out of business and the president and the Republicans should not help them competitors like China are eager for president Trump to kill America's clean energy economy so they can dominate the global market instead and while you can see we're going to have plenty to debate here
▶ 0:10:55uh but I also see a lot of room for bipartisan common ground chair L is interested in strengthening the Aging electric grid as a i and many members are interested in the next generation of nuclear power critical minerals and battery recycling and I know together we can ensure that Americans are energy secure and encourage Innovation that is the Hallmark of America thank you Mr chairman I Yi back thank you much General lady yields back and the chair now recognizes the chair of the full committee the gentleman from Kentucky for five minutes for an opening
▶ 0:11:26statement thank you thank you chair lad I really look forward to working with your leadership on this uh guiding the energy subcommittee with the ranking member my friend from Florida and to all of our new members uh welcome and I look forward to your contributions as well the availability and affordability and reliability of American Energy and its Delivery Systems is fundamental to enabling our nation to make and do things to grow manufacturing Advance AI heat our homes fuel our cars and produce the goods and services we all rely upon our work this
▶ 0:11:56Congress will aim to enable the nation to grow prosper and assert Global Leadership and an adversarial world and we will work hard to improve the lives and economic security of those in the communities we represent today's hearing opens our opens our discussion of the reforms needed to usher in a golden age of American Energy we will explore the benefits of and the urgent need for energy policies of abundance and dominance we will look at how
▶ 0:12:26responsible stewardship of our tremendous oil and gas reserves and the infrastructure to deliver those resources we will support new Industries Manufacturing we'll also provide the this hearing will also provide the beginning of our discussions and exploration of the enormous demand for energy for AI further today we will continue to make the case for American leadership in energy production and Technology to support our allies including through the export of LG Advanced gas turbines and nuclear
▶ 0:12:57we all have seen the increasing strains on our electric grid including failure to provide reliable power utilizing coal natural gas and nuclear when it is needed the most grid and energy experts warn the frequency of these outages will only increase if state and federal renewable energy policies continue to drive their premature retirement of traditional base load generation now the now the new and growing demand for Advan in manufacturing capacity and data centers to fuel
▶ 0:13:27the AI race have exposed the limits of our current Energy Systems as well this new reality add to the urgency to look at what is needed to provide the energy we need to win the competition with China and Achieve tremendous benefits of advanced Computing I appreciate the time that the subcommittee chair has yielded and I will uh yield to Vice chair of the subcommittee Weber for uh the reigning of my time I thank you chairman greby for yielding I am thrilled to serve as Vice
▶ 0:13:57chair of this energy subcommittee for this Congress I look forward to working with chairman Guthrie and L on energy policy which is the driver of so fraking much of our economy today's hearing is critical to this committee's role in advancing an energy future that can lower cost and fuel economic growth in Texas my home state and across the country for that matter America is blessed with abundant natural resources that can lift up small
▶ 0:14:27communities solidify our geopolitical position on the world stage and create Workforce opportunities for generations to come nowhere is this clearer than in my Southeast Texas congressional district 14 my G Coast District which many consider the energy capital of the world is home to seven ports three LNG facilities seven of the largest refineries in the United States and 60% of the Strategic petroleum
▶ 0:14:58Reserve is stored in our district unfortunately my district was also ground zero for the Biden administration's anti fosil fuel agenda so whether it was the band on LNG exports spr gimmicks that drained our capacity or the reg the overburdensome regulatory environment designed to drive out fossil fuels Southeast Texans bore the brunt of a disastrous American Energy strategy for the last four years
▶ 0:15:28Southeast Texans Texans know firsthand that these facilities not only create family sustaining careers that allow people to achieve the American dream but they also fund schools local hospitals they fund Public Safety resources as well as a myriad of other community benefits under President Trump's leadership our nation has an opportunity to once again regain control over our own Energy Future I look forward
▶ 0:15:58to the discussion today that will highlight the urgency behind our need to actually expand American energy production and fuel what we call a golden age of opportunity with that Mr chairman I yield back thank you very much gentleman yields back the balance of his time and the chair now recognizes the ranking member of the full committee the gentleman from New Jersey for five minutes for an opening statement thank you Mr chairman committee Republicans want to talk about unleashing American Energy at a time when President Trump is blatant
▶ 0:16:29breaking the law a law that is helping us unleash American Energy and reduce energy costs for American families on his first day in office president Trump illegally froze billions of dollars in investments in the energy sector that were passed into law by Congress that action was followed by a broader director from the Office of Management budget that halted funding across the government including Medicaid and Trump is stealing from the American people but Congressional Republicans appear to have no problem with that they've been virtually silent As Trump and his ad Administration
▶ 0:16:59continue to defile the law fortunately the courts have already ruled in favor of parties seeking to put a stop to this unconstitutional power grab and today I'm sending letters with the subcommittee ranking members to the Department of energy and other agencies within our committee's jurisdiction demanding that these congressionally approved funds be distributed immediately we also want to know what funds are being sent out and what funds are still being illegally withheld president Trump has a long history of stiffing contractors particularly in my home state of New Jersey R's
▶ 0:17:29casinos went bankrupt and he didn't pay anybody but American our government can't be like Trump we have to uphold our commitments the chaotic roll out has left communities and organizations that owed Federal funding reeling workers and businesses are being harmed Americans in need of care are being harmed Congress and the American people deserve answers and we're going to fight to vine them unfortunately as I said House Republicans have been virtually silent they too are dead set on eliminating These funds
▶ 0:18:00through the legislative process that they can pay for trillions of dollars in tax cuts for billionaires and big corporations House Republicans energy plans will increase costs for American families repealing the clean energy Provisions in the law could result in a 10% jump for American families on their energy bills Republicans ignore the fact that the inflation reduction Act is also growing our economy for the future and helping us combat the worsening climate crisis but frankly it's difficult for me to comprehend how senseless the energy policy policies of the new Administration are
▶ 0:18:30Trump declared a bogus emergency or I should say Energy emergency yet on the very same day he illegally attempted to cut off Federal support for nearly all energy investments in the United States Republicans spent years saying that they supported an all of the above energy strategy yet they're now trying to kill solar and wind both onshore and offshore I should add and what is especially distressing is that the Republican party is attempting to decimate a portion of our energy industry just when we need it most the subcommittee
▶ 0:19:01heard repeatedly last Congress that after 20 years demand for electricity in this country is starting to increase and to be clear this is actually a good thing because it means that artificial intelligence companies are choosing to build data centers in America it means that manufacturing is making a major comeback in America after a generation of Decline and it means that more Americans are shifting towards cleaner ways of driving and heating and cooling their homes and all of these are promising trends that will benefit the country but not if the power sector cannot meet the challenge grid
▶ 0:19:31operators across the country are sounding the alarm and they're saying that they they need every new electricity generator they can get to come online over the next 5 years and that we need to interconnect as many resources as we can as quickly as possible power generation projects take a long time to build in this country and according to the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory over 95% of the generation in the so-called interconnection queue is wind solar and batteries so if Republicans are really interested in unleashing
▶ 0:20:01American Energy they should work with us to clear interconnection cues and let resources get on the grid as quickly as possible we should work together to make sure that we have sufficient infrastructure whether it's transmission lines Transformers circuit breakers or other vital equipment to make sure that we can hook those new sources of electricity up to the grid and these are actions that we have to take our nation's ability to compete in the 21st century depends on it unfortunately it appears that Republic are determined to once again do the bidding of their big oil and
▶ 0:20:31gas friends and I don't think that's progress Democrats will fight this partisan effort every step of the way but finally to all the career staff of the Department of energy who are doing such hard work under challenging circumstances please stay in your jobs America's America really needs your expertise and with that Mr chairman I yeld back thank you thank you very much the gentleman yields back the balance of this time this concludes member opening statements the chair would like to remind members that pursuing to committee rules
▶ 0:21:01all members opening statements Will Made part of the record and before recognizing our witness I also want to just uh thank all of our new members that are on the subcommittee uh a hearty welcome we're going to have a lot of work to do this confence and look forward to working with everyone I want to thank our Witnesses for being with us today and taking the time to testify before our subcommittee each witness will have the opportunity to give a five minute opening statement followed by a round of questions from the members our Witnesses for today's hearings are Amanda everol
▶ 0:21:32the Executive Vice President and chief advis advocacy officer at the American petroleum Institute Mr Gary Arnold business manager at the Denver Pipe Fitters Local 208 Mr Tyler ' Conor partner at crra and moing LLP Mr brigam McOwen the senior fellow and director of initiative on American Energy security at the Hudson Institute want to thank you all for being here and before we recognize our F first witness this little housekeeping uh with the
▶ 0:22:02Box in front of you you'll see the U light will be green at 1 minute it'll go yellow and uh when your time expires after five minutes it will go red and if you could finish up we'd appreciate it and so what we'd like to do is pull that mic up close and turn it on and we're ready to go uh the chair recognizes M eversaw for five minutes for an opening statement good morning thank you very much Mr chairman uh chairman L chairman Guthrie ranking member casor ranking member palone and members of the
▶ 0:22:32subcommittee my name is Amanda everol and I'm the Executive Vice President and chief advocacy officer at the American petroleum Institute I'm honored to be invited by this committee to discuss the profound opportunities that we have by working together to build a better Energy Future for all Americans API is a national trade Association representing all segments of America's oil and natural gas industry from large integrated companies to small Producers
▶ 0:23:03this uh this industry represents 11 million hardworking men and women across all 50 states and support energy that powers every District in this nation API is proud to have developed more than 800 standards that enhance operational safety Environmental Protection and sustainability across 140 countries in fact promoting technological environmental and Regulatory Innovation is a driving force for API and our industry to achieve what is most important to all of us ensuring
▶ 0:23:33that we have the reliable affordable and cleaner energy that tens of millions of hardworking families and businesses need now and well into the future as api's lights on energy literacy campaign reminds us oil and gas fuel our economy secure our future and keep America moving as we saw in the last election the American people made their energy priorities clear they voted for energy that is more affordable and more reliable they want the freedom to
▶ 0:24:03make choices about what to drive and how to cook and for an energy policy that keeps cost down and our country economically strong and secure now this committee and Congress can advance these priorities through Common Sense policies that support energy growth while continuing our shared commitment to environmental performance and Innovation we can build on the $2 trillion dollar of value that this industry generates for our economy an amount larger than 95% of the gdps
▶ 0:24:33of country around the world as energy demand surges due to population growth and the massive impact of artificial intelligence we must ensure that America Remains the world's energy Powerhouse today we account for about 177% of global crude oil production that's up from just 8% in 2010 that's good for our economy and it's good for our national security and let's not forget that greenhouse gas emissions in the US are at a generational low and the biggest reason for that is replacing
▶ 0:25:03higher emitting fuels with natural gas yet despite the Incredible strength of our industry and its people America's continuing energy leadership is far from guaranteed ineffective policies have put investment at risk and ignore the reality that hundreds of billions of dollars in capital are required every year just to keep production at current levels to address these challenges API released its fivepoint policy road map to secure American Energy leadership our plan
▶ 0:25:33outlines five specific principles first we must protect consumer Choice let Americans choose what's best for their families whether it's their car their stove or their furnest we must avoid misguided policies that threaten to raise costs for families and for businesses second we must bolster our geopolitical strength energy security is National Security lifting the LG export pause was a major step in reaffirming the United States as a Cornerstone of global energy security
▶ 0:26:04third we must leverage our natural resources we have the resources so let's use them responsibly unnecessary restrictions limit our ability to harness these vast resources and discourage long-term investment in domestic energy production fourth we must reform our permitting system right now we cannot get things done and it simply doesn't have to be that way a more efficient permitting system will unlock billions in private investment create jobs and ensure that the US has the infrastructure
▶ 0:26:34to meet growing energy demands specifically we need Congress to act to prevent statues like NEPA and the Clean Water Act from being weaponized in the courts by opponents of energy development and finally we need sensible tax policy for sustained enery investment API supports policies that help achieve long-term energy security and environmental goals to build on the successes of the tax cuts and jobs Act Congress should pass legislation that maintains the corporate rate facilitates domestic infrastructure investment and preserves
▶ 0:27:04critical International Provisions to put simply we need policies that encourage investment rather than restrict it it's never been more vital that the US control our Energy Future and this committee and Congress have an opportunity to seize the op to seize this moment to pass meaningful legislation that will move our country forward Mr chairman Madame ranking member and distinguished members of the committee this concludes my prepared statement and I look forward to your questions thank you well thank you very much and Mr Arnold you recognized for five minutes for your opening
▶ 0:27:35statement good morning chairman L ranking member caster and members of the committee my name is Gary Arnold and I am the business manager of pip fitter's local 208 based in Denver Colorado I also serve as the international Vice President of the United Association of Union Pipe Fitters and Plumbers Local 208's parent Union Local 208 and the UA take great pride in providing the American people and our business partners with the highest skilled and best trained energy workers in the world I also know firsthand
▶ 0:28:06that the careers pursued by these workers are life-changing and truly provide a path to the middle class where Americans enjoy family sustaining wages and benefits without crippling student loan debt so on behalf of our members I want to thank you for the opportunity to be here to discuss a topic that is near and dear to us unleashing American Energy like most Americans hardworking Pipe Fitters want energy that is Affordable reliable americanmade and safe for their families and communities we support efforts
▶ 0:28:36to make the energy we produce cleaner however we take exception to being asked to suffer lost job opportunities higher energy prices and power outages because of opposition to projects from Fringe groups that is rooted in Scare Tactics and unrealistic solutions to real world energy demands our members want to see America lead on energy because of the good want to lead on energy because the good of the country and our own careers and livelihoods depend on it we have
▶ 0:29:06a difficult time understanding why it takes several years to permit a natural gas pipeline in a country that is sitting on a mountain of reserves while at the same time seeing electricity prices rise we struggle to comprehend while many still resist the expansion of nuclear energy when we've used nuclear for more than a half a century without a single injury or Fatality and when it produced es electricity on less land than any other clean clean Source we have a difficult time understanding how groups claiming to be focused
▶ 0:29:36on reducing emissions are having success undermining carbon capture projects that would make existing power plants and Industrial facilities cleaner to unleash American Energy we must speed up the project approval process and reduce the needless uncertainty and costs that energy companies and consumers are being asked to endure we must also reduce the ability of Fringe groups to leverage every choke point that they can to punish companies for building the energy infrastructure we need for these Reasons I'm very encouraged by President Trump's executive order
▶ 0:30:06on unleashing American Energy it is vital that we address regulations and policies that undermine the development of critical energy sources like natural gas oil nuclear biofuels and geothermal as well as newer promising sources like blue hydrogen together with the steps that are already being taken I encourage the administration and Congress to build on the inflation reduction act and other laws that are moving the ball forward on energy in important respects for example the IRA tax credits
▶ 0:30:36loan guarantee Authority and research to support the expansion of nuclear energy in addition the Ira's expansion of the IRS 45q tax credit has led to a surge and development of carbon capture and sequestration systems these systems will make it possible to extend the life of or even save plants that might otherwise be shuttered the carbon captured by these systems can also be used can be repurposed for various uses including enhanced oil recovery and concrete production as members of this committee work legislatively
▶ 0:31:07to unleash the American Energy we'll be working to unleash the training needed to build these projects safely and to the highest quality standards local 208 and our contractors invest about 2 million per year in training and the UA collect collectively invests over 300 million per year at over 300 training centers these Investments make it possible for us to deliver cuttingedge training to Americans at virtually zero cost to them and let me emphasize that these are 100% private dollars we don't ask for
▶ 0:31:37a dime from the taxpayer with your support in unleashing American Energy and giving our members the opportunity to build more projects we can expand our training programs and produce even more qualified workers to meet the needs of future projects and unlike some in our industry we don't look to foreign countries or even other parts of the country to staff projects we utilize local referral systems that provide opportunities to workers in the areas where the projects are being built in addition as more work becomes available we
▶ 0:32:07recruit and train from within the local community to man that work we believe as we know you do that if there's a project in your District local workers should have the chance to work on it thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this important hearing and I look forward to your questions well thank you much for your testimony and Mr OK Conor you will recognize for 5 minutes but beforehand welcome back to the committee and uh what what years again were you uh here on staff at the committee uh the 117th
▶ 0:32:37Congress well thank you very much and for your service and uh you recognized for five minutes for your opening statement thank you very much uh good morning chairman L ranking member Caster chairman Guthrie and ranking member palone uh and members of the electricity subcommittee uh thank you for the invitation to testify today about American Energy policy uh as you just noted as a former ENC staffer it is exciting to be back here before the most important Committee in Congress for those of you I don't know my name is Tyler ' Conor and I
▶ 0:33:07lead the energy team at the international law firm of cro and moing in that role I primarily advise energy companies on federal laws regulations and policies giving me insight into how those policies can either unleash American energy or sty it this subcommittee hearing on unleashing American Energy could not be more timely our country as some folks have noted is out of Crossroads we're already producing record amounts of oil and gas American manufacturing is booming thanks to the inflation reduction Act and the infrastructure
▶ 0:33:37investment and jobs act and our geopolitical adversaries like China and Russia are struggling to keep Pace with American Ingenuity and resolve in other words we have Unleashed American Energy but there's still work to be done so to that end in the course of my testimony here today I hope to convey three key points that will hopefully inform the committee's work moving forward first the IRA and the I and the infrastructure Bill are catalyzing investments in the United States and adding gigawatts of new generation projects to the grade
▶ 0:34:08in the last two years uh as ranking member Caster noted the IRA and iiga have supported $422 billion in clean energy generation and new manufacturing resulting in more than 400,000 new jobs across the continental United States and Puerto Rico of those more than half are in Republican held districts point one undermining the IRA and iiga whether legislatively or by withholding Federal funding will increase the cost of power and
▶ 0:34:38make it more difficult to serve growing load from Ai and data centers second I represent project developers and I can tell you energy infrastructure projects are complex they're timec consuming and they're Capital intensive and expensive under the best of circumstances actions that undermine business certainty and raise costs such as causing the issuance of federal permits repealing tax credits for Generation projects and manufacturers and imposing tariffs on key components will reduce investment and harm the long-term interest of
▶ 0:35:08the United States ultimately those costs will be borne by families and third there are a number of Common Sense measures we can take to promote American Energy dominance to maintain electric reliability and increase American competitiveness I'll just touch on a few of those here there's a common refrain in the energy industry that electricity may only be 5% of the economy but it's the first 5% because without electricity nothing else works we can't support our domestic military installations we can't serve growing
▶ 0:35:38load from Ai and data centers and we can't power our homes and businesses unfortunately extreme weather and load growth are stressing our electric grid and putting our country at risk according to the North American Electric reliability Corporation the United States must build 35 gws of inter Regional transfer capability of transmission in order to reliably serve the demands of tomorrow as Secretary of Energy Chris Wright recently testified quote strengthening modernizing and protecting the electricity grid and other critical
▶ 0:36:08infrastructure is a top priority as such the committee should consider what steps it can take to facilitate the permitting planning and cost allocation of critical transmission lines including inter Regional projects likewise while many Supply chains have recovered since covid others have not and there remains a shortage of critical electric grid components necessary to interconnect projects to the grid the committee should investigate what measures Congress can take to facilitate the domestic production of needed Transformers Breakers switch gear
▶ 0:36:38and other components finally this committee and others have focused significant attention on the need to timely permit energy projects while certain laws may need reform many projects are also delayed because agencies lack the staff and resources to timely review and permit projects I would therefore encourage you in the course of this Congress to maintain Staffing ad agencies like FK that play an important role in the permitting process in conclusion I say this as somebody who represents uh energy companies
▶ 0:37:09America is the best place to do business in the world if you're an energy company both because of an of American Ingenuity and fortitude but also because we have the rule of law and we stand behind our promises if American companies cannot be confident that the US government will keep its funding and tax commitments they will invest in alter alternative jurisdictions that provide a more stable and predictable business environment we should not let that happen thank you and I look forward to answering your questions thank Mr O Conor and Mr mcowan you are recognized for
▶ 0:37:39five minutes for your opening statement uh thank you chairman L Guthrie Vice chairman Weber ranking member palone ranking member Caster distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you so much for the invitation to appear before you today I am Brigham Macau a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and director of the initiative on American Energy security I'm also a professor and an executive in Residence at Miami University
▶ 0:38:10in Oxford Ohio while I'm here today in my personal capacity I've been blessed to have had a portfolio career over the last four decades during which I've worked for cabinet members of both political parties I've served in the military I've run businesses as well as my current work in the academic and nonprofit sectors energy as has been testified to today is the glue that binds everything together it Powers our cities our
▶ 0:38:40factories our commercial buildings our farms and our homes energy is the lifeblood of this nation it enables us to both reach for the stars and travel to see family and friends life is not sustainable without energy and lots of it at our core energy is harnessed for the betterment of society and throughout human history Global energy demands have only risen this is especially true of advanced countries
▶ 0:39:11where energy usage is in many ways pardon me a reflection of the wealth and strength of a Nation key components of energy like innovation technology reliability affordability are not static this is especially true in our modern world where our energy demands continue to grow quite quickly we're blessed to be an energy abundant nation and to draw on many sources of energy our Energy Mix is the Envy of the world
▶ 0:39:41it is an economic strength it is a national security strength one that can increase our safety and that of our allies our natural our national interest is best sered through understanding the benefits of American Energy even with remarkable improvements inch technology and efficiency economic growth and future Prosperity require more energy National Security that is the United States ability to project power globally to protect Americans
▶ 0:40:11and our Allied interests requires secure access to a diverse energy source and raw materials Market access to the quantities and types of energy when and where they are needed along with the security and resiliency of the Energy System requires thoughtful and sustained long-term capital investment at its core energy security is simply the ability to ensure the uninterruptible access
▶ 0:40:42of reliable and affordable power period these Investments are required across the entire value chain investments in producing the raw materials and in production the infrastructure required for distribution for storage for research for development the key to maximizing our energy Advantage as has already been stated is to ensure a predictable and stable policy environment the same is true for our allies
▶ 0:41:12who depend on stable supplies of Energy Products without our L exports to Europe in the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and 2022 Europe would have faced even more difficult circumstances than it already has endured circumstances that were upfront the result the result of poor policy decisions similarly allies like Japan require the importation of energy supplies countries like Japan that simply rack
▶ 0:41:42lack the raw materials energy abundance enhances Economic Security and our national security while energy poverty weakens us weakens our Economic Security weakens our national security by working together we can continue to unleash one of our inherent strengths some might refer to this as energy dominance but regardless of the term we have a unique opportunity to restore balance to our energy policies
▶ 0:42:13to our Energy Mix and to protect ourselves against geopolitical instability while supercharging the American economy thank you and I look forward to your questions well thank you very much and that concludes our opening statements from our Witnesses and again we appreciate you all being here today and uh the chair recognizes himself for five minutes for questions and you know one of the things I've heard from all of our Witnesses
▶ 0:42:43uh today is that we have to have more energy not less and pjm which you all know is one of our RTO uh and one of their latest reports that came out in January just talks about uh what what their looking at and the needs and their projections and you know they're talking about um in the summer Peak that they're going to say from we're going to go from about 70,000 megawatts to 220,000 megawatts in just a summers in
▶ 0:43:13in less than 15 years and you know the things that they talk about then is how we're going to get there and what the problems are is that the our demand is growing faster and at a faster Pace than ever before and it's what we've all heard the proliferation of our data centers electrification of buildings and vehicles and Manufacturing and other area the problem is that new replacement Resources with the needed reliability for the attributes aren't being fast enough uh to get us there and one of the things if I could
▶ 0:43:43start m c with you you mentioned again in again what we heard from all our Witnesses the need for more energy and that requirement for more energy especially when we look at our data centers that are uh growing across their country and you talk about smrs how do you see the smrs and how can that really help uh with this you know exponential growth that we're having out there in the need for power uh yes thank you for the question Mr chairman um you know I'd like to recognize the advance act
▶ 0:44:14which you all passed was an important first step toward renewing um our nuclear power you know the smrs are a modular plug and play uh they may not be quite as small as some people think but uh the idea is to duplicate to replicate um a particular power plant that has already been licensed again again again one of the things that we have suffered throughout with nuclear industry is that no two reactors designed the same
▶ 0:44:44it takes a long time to permit them uh the streamlining of Licensing the modernization of regulations uh can really help move us forward and with the smrs they're capable of being plugged in line in tandem to to grow or to scale as our energy demand scale I think they are an important component of our Energy Mix and something that for far too long we've been um reluctant to deploying nuclear energy and
▶ 0:45:14something that hopefully reform at the NRC will help with well thank you very much uh Mr everol um you know the testimony today underscores um the policies that we have to have to incentivize American Energy expansion and the best way to in incentivize that expansion is unlock private Capital spending uh will you speak about the role that long-term regulatory certainty and predictability have on the investment decisions produce and deliver more energy
▶ 0:45:44absolutely Mr chairman thank you for the question um the way that markets think about investment over long-term capital Horizons is really important and I think for our industry which are is incredibly capital intens and we invest over decades 10 20 30 years in some cases and so we need we need to move beyond the two four or six year political cycles and we need to tell markets that we are all in together on a bipartisan basis in investing in America's long-term energy security and I think what I would
▶ 0:46:14what I would add there is that it is extraordinarily important not just to signal for the markets but to producers that we are willing to make it here in America because not only does it help us from an economic perspective it also helps us from a geopolitical perspective well thank you uh Mr Arnold you know we have to change our thinking to confront the reality of new energy Dem man especially when we're talking once again about AI to reshoring our manufacturing uh from your testimony American workers support um unleashing
▶ 0:46:44our energy and we're going to need more fuels more grid capacity more pipeline capacity what is your view on unlocking more investment Capital through regulatory certainty and predictability in my last 50 seconds thank you for the question uh it's really critically important to building that Workforce and maintaining that Workforce is those projects are planned what our contractors are going to do is is try to make sure that they have the capacity to go out execute
▶ 0:47:14properly we have the right amount of workers out there to to to accomplish successfully building those projects when there's delays when there's uncertainty or those those projects don't be realized it's really compounded even more because now that contractor has a massive open part of their schedule that they anticipated performing on work you know having work to do and that can lead to layoffs and different things that that negatively affect our workers and our members and so that certainty is really critical to their success and the success of the apprenti ship program training
▶ 0:47:45those new workers as well well thank you very much and uh that I you back the balance of my time the chair now re recognizes the ranking member of the subcommittee for five minutes for questions well thank you Mr chairman thanks again to our Witnesses for being here today and Mr OK Conor thank you for for all of your work on uh the Energy and Commerce Committee you were instrumental and helping us craft a lot of the portions on modernizing the grid and transmission we have a lot of work to do there uh but one of the overriding aims
▶ 0:48:15of the infrastructure law and the uh our historic clean energy and climate law the inflation reduction Act was to put money into the pockets of hardworking families and small business owners and do that in a host of different ways by providing um uh funds to help weatherize their homes gosh that's very important in my neck of the woods where our summers are longer and hotter and if we can weatherize homes they can save on their electric bills
▶ 0:48:45or tax credits for uh appliances uh or rebates right now thousands of homeowners are rebuilding from the hurricanes and they're going to be able to save money thankfully when they have to go out and buy that new heat pump or some other Appliance in fact uh independent researchers at resources for the future conducted modeling on just the IR IRA and that says that over the next decade uh hardworking families will save significant
▶ 0:49:16dollars I mean these these numbers are thrown around and they they shouldn't go over our heads 209 to$ 278 billion dollar over the next decades that's hundreds of into the pocketbooks of families who could really use it right now uh so Mr OK Conor there's a discussion underway of repealing the ra whether it's through reconciliation or kind of the illegal wrench that uh the administration is thrown in to to projects going
▶ 0:49:46on going on from Department of energy loans and grants what will happen to Energy prices if the IRA is repealed or this illegal uh stop work order is successful microphone oh is your mic you just mentioned I had worked here before um thank you for the question um you know according to recent research from Aurora Energy Research uh repealing the
▶ 0:50:16IRA or with and continuing to withhold funding would increase electricity prices by an average of 10% across the country uh with some states notably Texas uh seeing much steeper increases and electricity prices and that's a function of a few things one as you noted the IRA induces a significant amount of new investment into generation bringing new projects onto the grid is going to lower electricity prices and make sure we can address the growing load that chairman L referenced particularly from day uh data centers and AI if we don't bring those new projects onto the grid then we're
▶ 0:50:46going to have to do more with less and we're simply incapable of doing so and so people are going to end up paying more for uh electricity there's going to be you know um contract prices will go up up as data centers try and outbid each other for our new generation and ultimately consumers are going to bear cost so four years ago prior to this manufacturing boom uh America was highly dependent upon Asia to manufacture key building blocks uh of the clean energy economy and you know there were tariffs by
▶ 0:51:17Democratic uh presidents and Republican presidents but they really failed to ignite domestic Industries like like solar but today thanks to the inflation reduction act the US is producing record amounts of solar panels and batteries and we're quickly on our way to meeting domestic demand so Mr Conor does the clean energy economy make us does this transition this manufacturing boom does it make uh what what does it do do to our
▶ 0:51:47dependence on China and what would it do if if the um if Republicans are successful in rolling back these investments in our domestic yeah it thank you for the question it makes us less dependent on China and if we were to repeal the IRA it would make us more dependent and I can share this from personal experience representing companies who have availed themselves of the section 45x Advanced manufacturing production tax credit to open new domestic Manufacturing in many of the states represented by members here and also the section
▶ 0:52:1730d credit uh which includes incentives both to make sure that batteries and EVS are manufactured in North America and that the critical minerals included in those B batteries are manufactured in North America or countries with we have a free trade agreement and I will tell you that there are a number of companies in the runup to the election who were thinking about making domestic uh critical mineral investments in either production capacity or processing capacity in the United States in response to the Ira's incentives but did not know whether they should make those Investments
▶ 0:52:47because if the IRA is repealed there's no economic incentive for them to do so they'll just keep it in China or uh not just China other countries that they're currently located in thank you very much for your important testimony I yield back the gentle lady yields back the chair now recognizes the chair of the full committee the gentleman from Kentucky for five minutes for questions thank you thank you for the recognition I appreciate it uh this morning I was talking to a group and somebody introduced me said by the Energy and Commerce Committee and quoted Mr Dingle chairman
▶ 0:53:17Dingle someone that I had uh the joy to serve a couple of years with and he says if it moves its energy if it if it's still it's Commerce that's our Juris ition and I can't improve on chairman Neagle except I would like to say that it takes energy to move Commerce and that's going to be the theme of of of our committee over over these next couple of years is that how do we do it in a responsible way I went to school on the Hudson River uh other than the Commonwealth of Kentucky showed me a more beautiful spot than around West Point bare Mountain
▶ 0:53:47that area and you couldn't get in the water because of industrial pollution so progress has to be responsible and so how do we how we responsible and if you and so uh Mr McOwen you said that uh throughout human history the world has never used less energy and throughout human history Energy's gotten cheaper there was a study a few years ago that measured the standard of living by the cost of Light how how much it cost light in the 1800s versus what it is now essentially it's not free but people
▶ 0:54:17feel like it's essentially free my great-grandmother he just SP an hour before everybody else got up just to get the stove hot that was her the quality of so the standard of living of energy is important and so if we look at Europe and we had uh Eric Schmidt from Google not the senator Eric Smith talked about a book he wrote with Henry kisser called Genesis and had a lecture or meeting at the Library of Congress and he said that Europe's chosen not to grow is what he said so if you look at just the example of Europe so if you from you say energy transition
▶ 0:54:48if you replace fossil fuels I'm I'm for all the above but if your if your goal is to replace fossil fuels with wind and solar what are the National Security implications of that in Europe today yes uh Mr chairman thank you for that question well I mean I think we've seen devastating effects in uh in Europe the de-industrialization of Germany in particular uh and frankly the retirement of nuclear plants and uh the removal of Russian uh cheap Russian fossil fuels has been devastating I'd like to point out too
▶ 0:55:18that their carbon emissions if you're keeping score have gone up not down despite all these Investments um it is uh not the way to do things um you know it it's critical that we do all the above and um and that includes Renewable Power just like a carpenter has more than one tool in their tool belt you can't use a hammer on everything I I've tried it doesn't work uh but you have to have other tools in your tool belt so this Energy Mix is going to change over
▶ 0:55:48time but we have to lead with what is reliable efficient and affordable because otherwise we could bankrupt ourselves and be in a position like Europe where they have none of the above thanks I want to make sure so M evera would you come in on the the how the Lessons Learned we can have for how quickly Europe's tried to transition to Renewables and in the negative impact ABS in terms of economic growth yeah Mr chairman thank you for your question look 85% of the gas that came from Russia was replaced by gas
▶ 0:56:18from the United States of America that's good for American workers and it's good for for America's national security it's also good for Europe I think what Europe Learned was that they were over levered a diversified portfolio is really important API supports and all of the above strategy but I think we get caught up into arguments that are more about uh picking winners and losers in various forms of energy and it it simply doesn't have to be that way this is about energy addition our demand not just here in the United States but around the world is growing and I would rather
▶ 0:56:48that energy has to come from somewhere and I would rather it come from the United States of America Mr chairman thanks and so but also during that time we were replacing a lot of the LG gas we also had the export ban that came so I mean that that was I know there're European leaders that that that was could be devastating to them if we did that yes we very much appreciate um the executive order on the first day of this Administration repealing the so-called LG ban um because it doesn't that doesn't make any sense I think that there are questions around
▶ 0:57:19um can the United States continue to meet the demand in the world and the answer is yes we can do it because we can be more efficient we do it when we have I want to get one more question and so Mr Arnold we talk about Ai and growth and the economy and and cheaper energy and everything but there's people creating the infrastructure for the energy would you just talk about the benefits in energy communities or your community for energy jobs it's not just people working in a in an AI data center it's people building the infrastructure to get the energy to the data center you want to talk about that a
▶ 0:57:49little bit uh thank you for the question uh a absolutely so uh we need energy to power the rest of the manufacturing facilities uh I've worked in biopharmaceutical manufacturing uh breweries which which I think obviously is pretty important some Americans too uh but it all starts with that energy and and then it continues to provide work opportunities for those professionals uh our jobs to build stuff build it well uh and then we look for the next project to build for folks thank you my time has expired
▶ 0:58:19and I will yeld back thank you much the gentleman's time has expired he yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey ranking member of the full committee for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman uh Mr OK Conor it's great to have you back here at the committee after your time on staff during the 117th Congress but I want to pick up on something you said in your written testimony which is that the Trump administration's actions are counter to its stated goals and Mr a you already established
▶ 0:58:50for ranking member Caster that illegally withholding or repealing funds from the inflation reduction Act and the bipartisan infrastructure law would increase American utility bills but let me issue would illegally withholding or repealing them make us more energy dominant or help in the case of an energy emergency which is the president articulated no it would not and I I think Miss everol uh said it best when she noted that energy projects are capital intensive uh and that we need to move Beyond political
▶ 0:59:20Cycles because it undermines investment certainty and that's exactly what we're seeing with this Federal funding pause right now you know in the past two weeks we've received you know or in my my capacity as a lawyer I've received numerous calls from energy companies name brand Global manufacturers who don't know how to respond to this Federal funding pause both people who want to develop projects right but also the suppliers of those projects because they don't know if the projects that they were supposed to be supplying are going to be receiving funding and moving forward we already know that some of
▶ 0:59:50the I think there was a sustainable aviation fuel uh facility in Montana who was supposed to re receive funding from the loan programs office uh saf is a is a place where uh airline companies are looking to make significant investments in the future and they noted publicly that their funding was paused uh I think 76 $769 million so I don't think it makes us uh more secure or independent and it certainly doesn't make us more dominant it makes us look silly well thank you would tariffs on um
▶ 1:00:20I mean you know let's talk about the tariffs that were almost implemented early earlier this week and then and then paused but would tariffs would tariffs on Canadian and Mexican energy increase or decrease cost to American families and would they make us more energy secure yeah they they'd increase costs in several respects and uh because of the broad nature of the tariffs you could identify uh costs that would rise across a number of of Industries I want to point to just a few one of course is uh
▶ 1:00:51Canadian Oil uh which the Midwest is predominantly reliant on I think I've seen studies that would increase gas prices by 3 to 4% um and another place I mentioned in my uh oral statement the shortage of critical electric grid components we need those components to interconnect projects to the grid uh in my day job I primarily represent developers who are trying to get projects interconnected and the shortage of components is a serious problem it just so happens that a large number of those components are imported from Canada and Mexico
▶ 1:01:21so if we were to stack tariffs on top of an already existing shortage that would exacerbate uh I think the concerns that people have about the inability to bring new generation online well thank you let me turn to the definition of energy in the president's order declaring an energy emergency defined energy as crude oil and then listed a number of other hydrocarbons followed by uranium biofuels geothermal heat the kinetic movement of flowing water and critical minerals something's missing here what's missing I think several things are
▶ 1:01:51missing solar wind storage uh transmission distribution lines I think maybe the entire electricity industry might actually be missing I mean it's unfortunate because you know I've not only heard my colleagues on the Republican side of this committee but also the president say that he believed in all of the above energy strategy but obviously he's abandoned that and uh let me just say I have one last question my understanding is that roughly 95% of all power plants waiting in the interconnection
▶ 1:02:22queue are some combination of wind solar and Battery storage can you talk about the impacts on electricity prices and reliability of support for these resources such as the tax credits from the inflation reduction act were to disappear yeah it's a great question and I think it hearkens back to to Chairman L's question about uh load growth in pjm and the role of smrs right smrs are fantastic uh for forthcoming technology we hope and I'd love to see them deployed uh but in the short term to meet load growth we
▶ 1:02:52need to meet it with Renewables Renewables come onto the grid I mean also other resources but as you noted 95% of the interconnection queue are uh solar wind and battery storage and that's because those resources only take about two years to bring online as oppos as opposed to natural gas fire power plants which can take four to five years and then nuclear projects which can can take 10 or more and so I think we're not going to be able to meet load growth and we're going to see Rising prices if we cut the legs out from under the industry that is currently poised to bring projects most of the projects online
▶ 1:03:22in the coming two years all right well thank you so much thank you Mr chairman thank you very much the gentleman yields back the balance of his time the chair now recognizes the vice chair of the subcommittee the gentleman from Texas 14th District for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman the title of this hearing is actually perfect for what is going on in Texas right now just yesterday Texas A&M
▶ 1:03:53University announced an energy proving ground to build four small modular reactors on their Reis campus I would especially like to congratulate natural resour for being one of the chosen SMR companies they're also building a research reactor on the avalene Christian University campus and will be deploying their small modular liquid fuel salt reactors for commercial use shortly thereafter thank you Mr chairman I just wanted to brag on my home state for a minute as we
▶ 1:04:23are and will be powering American amica's future and so I appreciate that Miss everol I'm going to come to you my district along the Texas Gulf Coast District 14 is no stranger to LNG we benefit from the thousands of direct jobs and billions of dollars poured back into the community the world benefits from our clean reliable and affordable LNG shipped right to their doorstep the Biden admin LG export ban
▶ 1:04:53had severe consequences in my District that impacted real people not just companies but real people real families and their lives president Trump has taken decisive action on day one to reverse this ban and Southeast Texas applauds him for that so as we work to unleash American Energy this impact will be felt worldwide what role do you see going forward for lngg it's got to include Texas now you
▶ 1:05:23know that do you see going domestically with jobs and revenue for our communities as well as for our allies abroad who depend on it for their own energy security I yield to you uh thank you very much for your question Mr Vice chairman uh the role that us LNG plays not only in our country uh that helps drive down emissions to a once in a generation low but also this is geopolitical strength not to mention the fact that just last year alone $ 14.4
▶ 1:05:54billion doar came back to the United States because of exports and the fact the fact of the matter is it helps us produce the affordable reliable and cleaner energy that we need not for just the people in Texas good paying jobs like Mr Arnold here uh but it also ensures that we are safe and secure we can do it all and we look forward to continuing to work together but we need have ongoing investment to do just that if I could paraphrase It's Not Just Energy security it's National and indeed
▶ 1:06:24International security would you agree I agree completely absolutely Mr I'm come back to you a minute Mr GW I've got one for you as you both well know I'll come back to you justed coal and natural gas make up the backbone of our energy mix you both also know that the Biden Administration aggressively went after both of these resources weaponizing his agencies to literally take them off the grid we'll start with you Mr MC can you speak to the importance
▶ 1:06:55of these resources and what role they will play as we look to add significantly more generation capacity to our grid absolutely thank you for the question um chairman Weber um first of all natural gas is an important Bridge fuel it is important fuel to pair whether you want instantaneous power for uh base load energy it is very efficient we have reduced our greenhouse gas emissions more than any other country in the world just let me break in real quick and I'm sure once we
▶ 1:07:25kill our Energy System I'm sure the other companies will kill theirs too keep going yes yes sir and U it is extremely important and it pairs well with Renewables which are still intermittent uh it is also cheaper and I I do take some exception to Renewables are keeping Energy prices low that's simply not the case Energy prices have gone up substantially with deployment of renewable sources uh because without all these tax treatments they're actually quite expensive and wholesale prices uh have actually
▶ 1:07:55gone up not down last Quick point is we've retired a lot of Base load because of the policies of the previous administration thus creating a shortage of available baseload power thus necessitating quick dispatchable power like Renewables which is actually more expensive I'm G stop here a second I'm G I'm going to come and agree with you that if we're going to have all these ex exciting computer places Ai and all these need all this energy we better have dispatchable power back to you Ma'am look the energy has to come from somewhere
▶ 1:08:25and I'd rather it come from the United States of America I couldn't have said it better myself Mr chairman I yeld back all 13 seconds chman he's back as 13 seconds and the chair now recognizes the geman from California's 50th district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman last year the United States produced more oil and gas than any other country in history and exported record amounts of liquefied natural gas to our allies around the world under the Biden Administration um so it's pretty unle leashed
▶ 1:08:56and simultaneously um 2023 was a record year for clean energy with combined utility scale solar wind and energy storage installations across the country these clean energy projects can be found in keeping the lights on in nearly all congressional districts in all 50 states I hope this hearing signals that this committee is going to finally get serious about the energy grid and reliability issues facing this country because America is energy dominant but we're going to need to do more uh these hearings I think will be most productive if we can focus on genuine
▶ 1:09:26fact finding to address the critical challenge of meeting our growing energy demand we should be looking forward identifying the infrastructure policies and Investments that we need to ensure a res resilient reliable and affordable energy Supply and the question before us isn't whether demand is rising it certainly is the real challenge is how we prepare for it in a way that strengthens our economy enhances our competitiveness and keeps the light lights on for all Americans so it's a little frustrating when my colleag talk about increasing
▶ 1:09:56American Energy dominance without committing to invest in the infrastructure that carries that energy transmission I have been outspoken about permit reform that would help us make everything we build go faster including generation and new transmission make it faster and more efficient I'm open to that I think it's important you have my commitment to work on you with that for all energy sources we are facing extraordinary energy growth in demand from AI data centers the reshoring of domestic manufacturing much of it incentivized by the inflation reduction act and as was mentioned
▶ 1:10:27before the North American reliability Corporation nerk which is the energy um reliability uh The Entity responsible for energy uh grid reliability has warned that without action load growth extreme weather and other threats could destabilize the grid nerk said a reliable grid will require significant planning and development of the internet interconnected transmission system and as also mentioned before nerk released a study showing that an additional 35 gaw of transmission transfer capability between
▶ 1:10:57regions would undoubtedly strengthen our ability to meet demand maintain reliability and improve our resilience to extreme weather 35 um gws since 1914 roughly since 2014 roughly the last decade North America has built just seven gws of inter Regional transmission power compared to 44 in Europe and 260 in China uh we're not going to be able to compete uh at that level of growth and development uh new natural gas generation will
▶ 1:11:27connect to the grid data centers will connect to the grid new manufacturing will connect to the grid oil and gas producers also continue to Electrify their operations in the perian Basin but are concerned that the grid can't handle more activity if we're serious about keeping track with global competitors securing our grid and achieving true energy dominance we have to have an honest honest conversation about what all of the above really means Miss everol do you agree that to unleash American Energy we need to invest in an expand the transmission grid while adding new
▶ 1:11:57generation and reforming the permitting process uh Congressman thank you for your question and thank you for your leadership on these important issues uh we very much appreciate the thoughtful way in which you approach them and I would just say as part of api's fivepoint policy road map um permitting reform is one of those five key tenants and we how about transmission we do agree that transmission should be part of that solution going forward love it api's on board that's great Mr o'conor can you talk about what laws Congress needs to change to make it easier to build and coordinate the construction of large inter Regional power lines
▶ 1:12:27and if we don't build out those lines will our grid be more or less resilient and why microphone a few thoughts come to mind uh one would be making it easier to permit uh inter Regional projects in particular by clarifying Federal sighting Authority uh two I think Congress should continue to fund the department of Energy's transmission facilitation program which is a critical tool for a number of inter Regional projects uh basically helps them get off the ground uh three as you noted
▶ 1:12:58and I noted and now I'm going to note again uh the North American Electric reliability Corporation recently uh identified the need for 35 gws of inter Regional transmission capability because of a report I believe this this committee uh directed them to undertake and so I think the natural next step in response to that report would be for Congress to uh ideally pass a law or direct FK to establish minimum transfer capabilities I think it's all great idea um I would say we're not going to be able to meet our load growth without transmission we have to be get serious about
▶ 1:13:28talking about that in this committee um and I'm on board with with helping to make it happen and if we don't do it uh and we have brownouts and higher prices be because of because we don't do it um all of us are going to have to answer for that so I'm intending to work on it and look forward to a good term thank you I yield back gentleman yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentle gentleman from Elam the sixth district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here when it comes to energy policy I I I do believe in all of the
▶ 1:13:58above approach but when you compare nuclear energy to renewable the difference in energy dis uh density is is very clear u a nuclear facility offers 247 base load energy consistent base load energy it'll operate for 60 years at least depend maybe longer uh Mr Macau I was pleased to see that that you mentioned small modular nuclear in your written testimony based on your expert what reforms do you think we need to pursue uh
▶ 1:14:28through Congress to unleash nuclear energy and remove the barriers to construct more nuclear power in the United States particularly the small modular reactors because we're falling behind China's already uh got one operating and even Romania is is uhu producing some doing some really good work on in that that area yes sir thank you so much for the question yeah we part of this is a um a public policy
▶ 1:14:58issue part of this is Outreach and education for the first time in a generation we have a large percentage of people across all age groups um seeing nuclear energy as a positive we have to move beyond our thoughts of what nuclear power are because the designs are not what they were in the 70s and we've got an NRC that has spent most of its time as an agency not permitting anything well an interesting thing too is is the Advan and Technology with these
▶ 1:15:28Advanced reactors you can recycle spent fuel rides uh we had a hearing and and had the national director of the nuclear Laboratories here and uh a lot of people don't realize this but a spent fuel Rod literally uh retains 90% of its energy capacity we can recover 98% and I asked the director of the national nuclear laboratory how long we could operate our Fleet and he said over 100 years just using spent fuel uh the the other thing that that I want to uh talk about here just for a moment is
▶ 1:15:58we talk a lot about energy Independence but but I think we're at a a major U place in terms of critical minerals and rare Independence right now there's not a single major Refinery for rare elements in the Western Hemisphere there's only nine in the world eight of them are in China and I'm talking about major refineries China control 7% of the Cobalt Mining and 80% of the processing they control over 90% of the uh Rare Earth refining
▶ 1:16:29uh I I'm I'm a big proponent of near Shoring our supply chain but but also I think we need to do a whole lot more here in terms of our domestic production the mining um the production side of it the refining side of it uh what are some of the barriers that that we're we're facing here Mr Macau and and the others of you can respond to this as well if you'd like in terms of pering timeline because I don't think we've got seven to eight years to get a permit in in regard
▶ 1:16:59to where China's heading particularly if we want to be competitive in artificial intelligence sure thank you Mr Palmer very quickly um you know and Mr Peters is exactly correct we have a difficult time building anything these days uh the infrastructure the we need NEPA true NEPA permitting reform we have to be more Nimble we have to be more quick than we have done we have difficulty mining uranium um 70% plus per to 80% of the entire supply chain for Renewables is from China
▶ 1:17:29that's worse than Middle Eastern oil in my personal opinion it is truly and I want to emphasize this and I want to emphasize to my colleagues across the aisle this is a national issue uh we will not compete with China we're in an arms race in artificial intelligence with China and we don't have the mineral production the mining the processing the refining to be competitive we will fall behind they've already cut us off from Gallum Germania antimony uh we're we're really
▶ 1:17:59in a in a bad place so I think Mr chairman we need to to really make it a priority to this committee to work on these on these issues because we don't like I said we don't have seven eight or nine 10 years to do this um and going back to AI uh with China's release of their deep seek AI model it it was a bit of a shock wave but for us to compete we not only have to have these other is address these issues critical minerals and
▶ 1:18:29rars but we've got to address the issue of of a um of being able to provide the energy that we need and we're not going to do it with with Renewables with all due respect so I think we've really got to have a focus on how do we utilize hydrocarbon energy as we advance our uh our energy production through nuclear and with that any of you m everol Mr AR respond if I May uh the gentleman's time has expired but if you could write a written response to
▶ 1:18:59that we'd appreciate that thank y back thank you gentleman you was back and the chair now recognizes the Gent lady from Colorado's first district for five minutes for questions thank you so much Mr chairman well Mr Palmer good news in the last Congress we passed the advance act which uh chairman Duncan then chairman Duncan and I uh did together which re structured the way we regulate nuclear energy and the hopes of getting some of these energy resources
▶ 1:19:30and I'm I'm assuming uh Mr O Conor that you would think that would be a positive step towards getting more nuclear yes okay thank you now um uh continuing with you Mr OK Conor I I wanted to ask you about um president Trump's claim that the United States is in an quote Energy emergency the in fact the United States is the top producer
▶ 1:20:00of crude oil and natural gas in the world is that correct that is correct and in fact investments in clean energy like in the inflation reduction act and bipartisan infrastructure law mean that the United States would um do do those Investments mean that we would no longer produce oil uh no they don't and in fact after we began making those Investments we still had an huge increase in the production of oil didn't we yeah that's
▶ 1:20:30right okay now um Mr Arnold I really want to again thank you for coming it's good to see my homie here I wanted to ask you uh in your testimony you talked about the benefits of the IRA um can you talk for a minute about the iig and Ira's investment in technology like Advanced nuclear geothermal hydrogen and carbon capture for the workers uh thank you for the question
▶ 1:21:01and you know certainly uh are are certainly in favor of all of the above approach I I think those are important options to keep on the table when we're looking about how do we keep existing workers in good paying jobs and middle class jobs and how do we continue to provide those career opportunities for younger Generations uh I think you know in Colorado specifically you know one of the the things I I've mentioned in my written testimony is some of the challenges facing queblo Community as they look to retire uh commanche
▶ 1:21:31unit 3 which is which is the state's largest coal fired power plant in 2031 and so when the committee that that analyzed the variable options down there looking at what's going to provide those critical jobs and and economic engine that that that area depends on what they found was the only thing that kind of came close was nuclear uh and so uh in the short term you know a gas fired power generation unit would help stabilize Baseel load help provide uh needed tax revenue and jobs
▶ 1:22:02and working towards longer term nuclear generation as a replacement to fully kind of make that Community whole so I'm sorry I've got a couple more questions that was very helpful though um Mr OK Conor I want to go now back to you again um do investments in clean energy like in the inflation reduction act and bipartisan infrastructure law save money on energy yes they do uh and you don't have to take my word for it uh last year the then interim CEO of American Electric Power one of the country's largest utilities
▶ 1:22:32testified to the Senate that if the IRA is repealed it would increase the cost of power and make it harder to serve increasing demand so I think there's General consensus that it does reduce costs thank you um now one last thing over the last uh the shock and a of the last 10 days the Administration has frozen billions of dollars from the IRA and the iiga for energy development that's already been allocated to domestic producers and and I just uh received an email yesterday
▶ 1:23:02for Colorado the Colorado energy office has been awarded over $500 million in funds from from these programs that have been frozen for the last week and a half these include uh 25 million for grid resilience reliability and stability uh money for home energy rebat $70 million flexible funding for State energy offices home Energy rebates Commercial Energy rebates uh
▶ 1:23:32weatherization Energy Efficiency financing small community energy support um Mr Arnold Workforce Development lowincome solar programs multiple programs Etc do you think Mr oconor that freezing all of these programs is going to help us build towards um American Energy Independence in this country no I no I don't and I know you asked a question about nuclear at the beginning
▶ 1:24:03I would note that the palisay nuclear power plant on the shores of Lake Michigan received a loan guarantee uh from the loan programs office and so if that funding is paused it will also impede uh nuclear deployment as well is it is it fun is it paused to date uh my understanding is that all lpo uh loans are posit dat I don't know that company's particular circumstance okay Mr chair I ask unanimous consent to put a summary of these projects from Colorado that are Frozen to the tune of $500 million without objection thank
▶ 1:24:34order the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia's 12th District for five minutes for questions thank you chair L for holding this hearing on unleashing American energy production I want to thank the witnesses for your testimony today America is an incredibly energy rich nation and during President Trump's first term in office we Unleash the Power of American Energy now we do lead we do lead the world in in energy production
▶ 1:25:04but guess what it's not enough demand is growing rapidly and we've got to meet that demand are we going to fall behind uh in our uh ability to deal with our adversaries around the world United States know only became independent we became energy dominant we set the price of a barrel of oil we created an oil war between
▶ 1:25:34Saudi Arabia and Russia during covid brought the cost of barrel oil to $7 a barrel that's power that's economic power unfortunately the previous administration took every imaginable step to undo this this progress and decentivize domestic production which is caused weakness around the world and Wars around the world I am hopeful that we can now return to our energy dominance and lower the cost for the American people in my district plant
▶ 1:26:05uh we have plant Vogal where units three and four have been completed our in commercial operation making plant Vogal the largest nuclear power station in the country nuclear energy is key to ensuring our energy dominance and we must continue the momentum on unlocking our nuclear energy capabilities nuclear energy industry has a vital impact on the workforce and on local economies as a former businessman helping to provide jobs for my local community was my greatest gift from
▶ 1:26:35God and a privilege Mr arold the US has been a key partner in fostering Innovation and nuclear technologies will be critical in promoting Advanced nuclear reactors your testimony discusses discusses the workforce opportunities for pipe for fitters at a potential un nuclear site in the kamanche 3 plant in Pablo Colorado can you talk about what type the types of jobs and benefits that can be created for Pipe Fitters at nuclear facilities and how critical these jobs can be for
▶ 1:27:05the local community where these plants are based thank you for the question uh th those projects especially large nuclear facilities like Camp Bogle provide thousands uh of opportunities to Pipe Fitters there was well over 2,000 Pipe Fitters on those projects during their construction and the nice part about those facilities is that not only just the original construction of the facility but the ongoing operations and maintenance required to continue to operate them safely
▶ 1:27:36and so having high skilled Pipe Fitters provides jobs that are truly family sustaining the it's health benefits for them and and their spouses for their for their children it's retirement benefits that are provide them to retire with dignity after they've made their contributions to our communities and so they're they're absolutely critical to the long-term success of folks in the middle class that you know want to go work with their hands so it's a win-win all the way around economy and for those who uh who have that incredible
▶ 1:28:06skill the Advan act signed in the law last summer including my included my Nuclear leasing efficiency act to streamline nuclear energy permitting and Licensing by focusing on metrics and Milestones as a result the nuclear Regulatory Commission has been tasked with sporting more efficient timely and predictable reviews as I mentioned nuclear energy is vital to uh our nation's uh economic National and environmental security uh to unleash American
▶ 1:28:36Energy we need an all of the above approach and we need energy projects completed with greater speed than before Mr M Mr mcount my uh nuclear licensing efficiency act F focused on timely and predictable licensing given the demand for energy domestically how critical it is for nuclear companies to have regulatory certain certainty at the nuclear Regulatory Commission and how could that Foster more investment and Innovation to ensure us Global Leadership and nuclear technologies yes thank you Mr Al it's absolutely critical it's crucial
▶ 1:29:06to deploy Capital you must have regulatory certainty and uh it is U we have to make this simpler we have to make this better faster for companies in order to invest good as OU I'm just about out of time but uh get you to some submit this uh uh for the record uh last Congress you came before the environmental subcommittee and testified on the progress of the US has has made in unlocking our domestic energy uh capacity
▶ 1:29:37I want you to share uh in writing the impact uh exporting our oil and natural gas has on our economy thank you and I yield back gentlemen yields back the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from California's 7th District for 5 minutes for questions thank you very much Mr chairman and thank you for all the witnesses for being here today um unfortunately it's a little difficult to take this hearing seriously while President Trump and Elon Musk are dismantling
▶ 1:30:07federal agencies and ignoring the laws the Congress has passed as members of Congress were elected by our constituents to come here and do the serious work of thoughtfully concerning how to change the law not to surrender power to the executive branch and unelected Bill IES businesses thrive in America because they can count on a legal system to be fair and consistent it is what protects our citizens from discrimination and arbitrary punishment it is what protects our democracy
▶ 1:30:38from becoming one of a corrupt despotic regimes that we have fought throughout our history the president is taking this country down a dark path shutting down Federal programs people depend on freezing payments for life-saving treatments giving Elon Musk the richest man in the world privileged access to sensitive data he's ignoring the laws passed by Congress ignoring a court order and usurping the separation of powers enshrined in our constitution I urge my colleagues to ask
▶ 1:31:08yourselves how far is too far I find it ironic we are here today to talk about unleashing American Energy well the president is freezing funding for energy projects threatening tariffs on critical energy and Manufacturing inputs blocking the development of solar on federal lands and banning wind energy so yes and Republicans on this committee are planning to claw back billions of dollars in funding for American
▶ 1:31:38Energy projects taking money out of Americans Pockets that is not unleashing American Energy Mr O Conor what is the fastest growing source of electricity in this country uh according to the eia I I think it's solar okay after solar what is the second biggest source of new capacity on the electric grid storage okay and after storage you mean batteries that right batteries yeah and then the third and then oh go ahead and then
▶ 1:32:08okay and then what after that uh wind okay the top three sources of new energy in America are solar batteries and wind and it's not even close the Energy Information Administration reported over 59 gaw of new solar batteries and wind in 2024 alone compare that with 2.6 gaw of new natural gas that's almost 23 times more solar batteries and wind than natural gas Mr OK Conor very briefly why are power companies
▶ 1:32:38building so much solar batteries and wind yeah I think for for several reasons one uh they're lower cost uh two they can be brought online more quickly uh three there is a shortage of gas turbines um and then four I think there are some broken capacity Market constructs particularly in pjm uh that don't induce new investment in thermal generation okay um yet the president and the Republicans plan to stop new wind projects clawback
▶ 1:33:09funding for rooftop solar and raise the price of clean energy that doesn't sound like unleashing American Energy to me it sounds like a giveaway to the oil industry at the expense of hardworking everyday Americans the IRA is all of the above energy for the last two years we've been hearing from Republicans about an all of the above approach to energy but I struggle to identify what president Trump is doing for any energy aside from oil and gas
▶ 1:33:40it's a shame really because the inflation reduction act the bipartisan infrastructure law and the chips and science act actually are in all of the above approach to energy Mr Conor yes or no does the inflation reduction ban natural gas or oil no it does not okay in fact the inflation reduction Act was deliberately designed to support an all of the above approach to decarbonizing our Energy System fighting climate change while reducing energy costs and
▶ 1:34:10improving reliability as Mr Arnold pointed out in his testimony the inflation reduction act included funding for carbon capture and methane Leak Detection enabling natural gas power plants to continue Pro providing base load part power where necessary while still reducing greenhouse gas emissions Mr OK Conor the inflation reduction act also included a technology neutral clean energy tax credit can you explain that quickly uh sure
▶ 1:34:40uh the section 48e and section 45 y those are the clean electricity investment tax credit which provide is a tech neutral tax credit for investments in clean electricity generation and then the clean electricity production tax credit provides a tax credit for uh the production of clean electricity okay so the inflation reduction act supports any energy source as long as it doesn't emit pollution I see I'm running out of town and Mr chairman I yield back the balance of my time thank you much General yields back and the chair now recognizes
▶ 1:35:10the gentleman from Ohio's 12th District for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman um thank you all for being here today my first question is going to be directed to miss everol thank you for being back to the committee again um last Congress you and I discussed some of the environmental and economic benefits we've seen as a result of this Shale Revolution it's certainly been a game Cher for my district and the Appalachia region where revenue from muta Shale leases have blustered bolstered excuse me the Region's
▶ 1:35:40economic by nearly $1 billion dollar I was going to nudge Rick Allen uh and let him know that we had that conversation last Congress but we also know the switch to natural gas is a major reason why the United States is a global leader in emissions reductions over the last 15 years it's vital to federal government work as a partner not as an adversary to our energy industry and support their efforts Innovation and reduce emissions through new technology Mr everol can you discuss the efforts that api's member
▶ 1:36:10companies are taking to be responsible stewards of the environment while also providing reliable baseload power to our constituents uh Congressman thank you very much for your question um API released a climate action framework which talks very specifically in great detail about ways that we can work together to decrease emissions from the atmosphere uh first of all we focus on ways we can do that in our very own operations in fact uh in 2017 API launched um
▶ 1:36:41an environmental partnership which is a group uh that comes together and focuses on on how to decrease methane emissions it's a very important also I would say that this industry is the largest investor uh in cleaner technology and so we've talked about um geothermal we've talked about CCS we've talked about a lot of these Technologies and these not only are good for decreasing emissions they also help jobs thank you very much um my next question is for Miss everol and
▶ 1:37:12uh Mr Macau thank you I have a couple Miami grads in our office so thank you um we'll start with you Mr C since s all just went a 2023 study by nerk economic Consulting found that the lack of new pipeline infrastructure is material obstacle to the natural gas industry bringing the lowest possible cost gas resources to the market can both of you speak to the need for increasing pipeline capacity to help bring lower and more stable costs to
▶ 1:37:42Industry and rate payers Mr MC if you go first please yes thank you very much I mean you know we have uh 3.4 million miles of pipelines more than any other country but at the same time they don't necessarily go between new sources of production and to where they're currently needed um you know there are there are continuing legal battles that are fought by people frankly that are opposing fossil fuel under the AG of being concerned about pipelines in their back neighborhood when it's the safest form of energy
▶ 1:38:12Transportation 99.999 nothing ever beats it so I think we have to get serious about that and have a discussion about the fact that impeding pipelines is actually counterintuitive to reducing our Global emissions and it's counterintuitive to delivering cheaper costs to the American Consumer thank you Miss s yeah I I would note that what unfortunately we're seeing is the weaponization of well-intended statutes like the Clean Water Act Like NEPA and we really need as we think about comprehensive
▶ 1:38:42permitting reform we really need to think about how we make changes because right now anyone anywhere anytime can use the courts to try to stop energy projects and it's not just oil and gas projects I would emphasize and we need to have some judicial reform here so once we get through the high level of scrutiny for these projects that we can put shovels in the ground and get jobs going for hardworking Americans thank you when it comes to the Appalachia Basin and UDA and marcelis
▶ 1:39:12Shale we're a bit constrained by the inability to transport that oil and gas to the Northeast can you talk about how this limited pipeline capacity has also hurt producers in States like Ohio West Virginia and Pennsylvania and how does this hurt consumers across the Northeast sir M Mr MC I apologize yes yes sir um you know it has and if we look to New England they're constrained right uh we have a large proportion of uh uh some states in New England continuing to use biomass wood to heat because
▶ 1:39:43they can't get natural gas to them uh you know this is a this is a national problem that has to be addressed and permitting reform needs to look at it but some of this is in the fact that the states have permitting Authority for citing not the federal government with regard to certain types of pipelines and this affects all pipelines too CCS right uh which is carbon capture is also affected negatively by opposition to pipelines thank you do you want to add
▶ 1:40:13anything I think we're out of time thank you sir yeah we are thank you thank you Mr chairman gentleman's time has expired chair now recognizes gentleman from New York's 20 district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chair Mr OK Conor welcome back to the uh subcommittee I strongly support expanding our grid infrastructure to help meet our growing electricity needs but if we only work to increase Supply we're severely limiting our tools to maintain a reliable and an affordable Energy System reducing
▶ 1:40:43demand through cost-effective Energy Efficiency measures is a proven strategy across all segments of the system generation transmission distribution and end use so Mr Aro what should be the role for efficiency as we work to meet our growing and changing energy needs Mr Tonka thank you very much for the question efficiency is something we always uh need to continue to work on there is a balance between efficiency and cost that we have to weigh out but clearly um what we produce are everything
▶ 1:41:14from our water heaters to our dishwashers are far more efficient than they used to be my only caveat is that we can't conserve our way to Prosperity because simply we continue to use more and more energy so it's a tool but not the only tool Mr coner same question I thought that was well put uh it's an important tool our ability to serve load is based on how much we generate what our losses are in the transmission of electricity and then what our load is how much do we actually need to use
▶ 1:41:44uh Energy Efficiency reduces uh our demand for electricity it frees up electricity to be used for other purposes and I'm full of uh energy industry sayings uh another one is that the least expensive kilowatt hour is the kilowatt hour not used thank you and efficiency can also be an important tool to empower American consumers the reality is that every day Americans cannot control whether the oil and gas industry will choose to slow down production when it is beneficial to their bottom lines but many people can make investments in their homes
▶ 1:42:14resulting in significant savings on their electricity and heating bills uh for example according to acle e the 25c tax credit help 2.3 million American households upgrade their homes in 2023 saving an average of $130 a year in energy costs by 2032 the credit will cut Peak electricity Demand by some 3,400 megawatts similarly the Ira's rebate programs for efficiency and electrification are expected to save consumers up to $1 billion
▶ 1:42:44dollar annually in energy cost so Mr oconor how important is continuation of these efficiency incentives to help consumers take steps to uh reduce their uh energy bills yeah it's critically important particularly in a rising cost environment uh which may continue if uh we impose tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico and I know you mentioned I think uh 2.3 million American households I had seen data that said 3.4 million American households had availed themselves of Ira related Energy Efficiency credits and rebates
▶ 1:43:15terrific so developing grid scale energy projects requires tremendous long-term planning and capital investment regardless of the Technologies being utilized and when I talk to developers they always tell me that the most important thing they need is certainty to have the confidence to make those Investments um Mr oconor when we see rash and unclear executive orders and other actions from the White House and federal agencies can that have a chilling effect on the private sector yes absolutely at best it delays
▶ 1:43:45needed Investments while everybody AWA certainty and at it worst at its worst it completely undermines them we're trying to compete in a global economy and if the rules here are unclear uh and create uncertainty for companies they'll find other jurisdictions to do business in and if there's a perceived possibility that the rug will be pulled out from under these developers by changing the rules on federal tax credits on gr grants loans and permitting opportunities what kinds of risk does that present to the domestic manufacturers the construction companies
▶ 1:44:15and American workers that make these energy projects happen yeah I think there's there's at least two distinct risks one are risk to folks who have already made Investments uh in domestic manufacturing and electric generation based on their on their Reliance of the existence of these tax credits we've seen those manufacturing facilities opening up all around the country and so if they get the rug pulled out from under under them a number of those projects simply won't pencil I think the second risk is for new projects uh assuming none of us here are happy with the amount
▶ 1:44:46of domestic manufacturing we have because we always want more uh if we don't have these critical tax incentives then projects like I said are going to choose other other jurisdictions that are more business friendly so if we want to compete to be the global leader in emerging strategic Industries meet our energy demands and certainly lower energy costs all at the same time we need to help Foster a stable business environment for investment as what I'm hearing from your answers and president Trump's approach of causing chaos is simply and clearly the wrong
▶ 1:45:16approach with that Mr chair I yield back thank you very much the gentleman yields back the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas 11th District for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman I think the good news today is that we know Americans can now do math because energy was on the ballot and we did math and we now have a new approach uh to a lot of bad policies that we saw over the past four years which put us in a very precarious and uh detrimental situation going forward and the foundation of our economy is energy
▶ 1:45:46um I'm proud to to have uh this week on the floor hr26 which will protect a a critical innovation technology hydraulic fracturing with which without that the last four years would have been much worse and without the state of Texas the perum Basin in general Miss everol welcome back to the panel thank you for being here I want to talk about one of the bad policies the waste emissions charge that came out of the last Administration and with regards to cost production in the future of the industry um just kind of give us a road mapap for what that will do
▶ 1:46:16Congressman thank you very much for your question um you know we think about the waste em emissions charge or the so-called methane tax is uh completely the wrong way to go about this it is in the industry's interest and it's in society's benefit that we keep methane from escaping in into the atmosphere I've referenced the environmental partnership which API leads with a a variety of companies across the value chain to help reduce methane emissions we're committed to doing that and I think from your District you know in the per and Basin um that's really you know
▶ 1:46:46Ground Zero for energy production in many ways you know smack dab in the middle of your District we're seeing um decrease in methane and we look forward to continuing to do that well thank you for that and uh the leadership that API has shown with the road map also axc um recently submitted a letter Mr chairman with the like to seek unanimous consent um for recommendations by axc to this uh committee without objection thank you much um Mr Macau uh let's uh talk about the Energy emergency
▶ 1:47:17that President Trump just declared why did we have to declare that what does it mean and what should this committee and Congress and the legislative branch be doing to back that up and get us back on track absolutely um thank you for the question Mr fluger the uh you know the simple math is yes we're producing more oil and natural gas than we ever have 13.4 million barrels per day the problem is we're using 20.3 million barrels of oil a day that's a deficit uh we do produce more natural
▶ 1:47:47gas than we consume and thank goodness we've been able to export it to friends and allies but uh we are not yet quite energy independent and the forced early retirement of Base load energy on the electric side there is a looming crisis it's going to hit and it's not going to be fixed by uh throwing up small scale Renewables we need base load power that's not intermittent and we need to get on it in a hurry thank you very much and uh Mr OK Conor appreciate
▶ 1:48:17uh your acknowledgement of the the amount of energy we're producing but the math problem that we still have is that we have a lot more demand um when it comes to what we are going to do in this country specifically data centers Mr Arnold thank you for mentioning The Fringe groups uh I see that as the biggest threat to uh normaly reasonableness and reality uh and so U between Mr Arnold Mr M eversol um I want to talk about the the study that was in the 11th Hour submitted by Doe that said that it is uh you know we we thought that
▶ 1:48:47uh uh l&g exports were in the public interest and and the study was released um talk to me about um that temporary pause which they said was a pause but actually affected a lot of investment into uh the L sector and getting that overseas Congressman you know I would I would simply say that unfortunately that was an example of where politics got in the way of durable long-term Investments and it impacted um not only uh investment here in the United States but it impacted our allies and as somebody who
▶ 1:49:17puts on the uniform and continues to put on the uniform every day it doesn't have to be that way and we want to make sure that we can continue to produce LG in this country and Export it to our allies around the world um it's been mentioned permitting reform part of that is the judicial reform litigation reform um Mr Arnold those Fringe groups uh that uh are very small in percentage but have an outsized voice uh tell us your your experience with that and how they've been detrimental to the
▶ 1:49:47industry uh thank you for the question uh really are are you know pip Fitters my fellow workers they just want to see things that make sense uh and you know LG facilities for example provide tremendous work opportunities uh if you look at Cove Point uh we had thousands and thousands of pipefitters on that project and continue to have pipefitters on that project for the ongoing operations in addition to that you have all the pipeline projects that that you know have to be built and that provides
▶ 1:50:18additional work opportunities for our pipeliner members uh and so just do what makes sense and and reward Americans are out there working hard trying to do the right thing I think I heard that in the inaugural address that we are going to govern with common sense thank you for backing that up Mr chairman yield back jman yields back chair now recognizes the general lady from Washington's 8th District for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman and thank you to our our Witnesses uh at the first just like to Second
▶ 1:50:48uh what a lot of my colleagues have been saying here Congress fun funded the infrastructure la law and invested in climate and clean energy and as a result billions of dollars came to my state Washington state in the form of a hydrogen Hub battery manufacturing cutting Ed re Edge research grid hardening for utilities and support for aging hydropower infrastructure uh the Trump administration's decision without uh any Republican objection
▶ 1:51:18to abruptly and illegally cut off funding already approved d by Congress is beyond Reckless and frankly it kneecaps our efforts to unleash American energy production and Independence I'm also outraged by the The Reckless Republican attempt to gut the federal Workforce across the board uh specifically for this discussion employees of the Bondville power Administration a public agency self-funded
▶ 1:51:48by Northwest rate payers mind you received the same blanket incentive to resign in order to hack away at the federal Workforce for those of you who don't know bonnaville was established to Market power from federally owned power generating dams to rate payers at cost they are also a negotiating partner in an international treaty they provide three quarters of all Northwest Transmission and they serve as the the grid balancing Authority for the region
▶ 1:52:19their highly skilled worker Workforce is already strange but strained excuse me strained but manages all of this and that is why uh this is so extremely danger as encouraging resignation of the highly experienced people who are the few who actually understand how to manage these operations in the Northwest is uh risks decimating affordable access to non-emitting hydrop power in the entire Northwest Bondville has system operators and support
▶ 1:52:49Personnel who manage the complex flow of electric 24/7 365 days a year it has linemen who go out in the worst conditions to repair damaged power lines and restore Qui Service as quickly as possible they also bring new energy generation online processing requests to connect to the grid getting in that interconnection cue these and many jobs at Bonville require substantial training and I want to emphasize cannot be easily
▶ 1:53:19replaced when you hack away at federal jobs um Mr OK Conor thank you for being here uh as a lawyer working on these clean energy projects you have dealt with the RTO intern interconnection cues uh that line line up to get new power projects connected to the grid uh I was wondering if you could comment if you experienced difficulty with the balancing Authority in getting projects hooked up to the grid yeah I I don't have experience with BPA in particular
▶ 1:53:50uh but I do spend a lot of my time working with the RTO and and to and and transmission owners and operators to interconnect projects across the country and yes there are delays absolutely there are delays part of that is the Transformer shortage but part of it is whether it is wind or solar uh connecting to the que is a very big deal and again cutting uh employees at Bonville risks this risks our energy portfolio and just slows our transition
▶ 1:54:20to non-emitting hydrop power um so I I guess what what I would just like to conclude with is just that uh we all want the government to be more efficient we all want to move that interconnection queue more quickly but these Brute Force blanket actions taken so far are not the answer we need a scalpel not a machete to increase productivity and efficiency in the federal Workforce and if the president
▶ 1:54:51truly wants to unleash American Energy and do the right thing and focus on non-emitting energy um he and his governing party should not take away the experts uh who we need to make that happen uh it's an insult frankly to the experienced workers that we have with that I am going to thank you and yield back thank you the general lady yields back the balance for time the chair now recognizes the general lady from Tennessee's first district for five minutes
▶ 1:55:21for questions thank you Mr chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here today um Mrs everol can you speak to the need for Meaningful permitting reform and why it's essential for more pipelines to be built to ensure America can get back on the path to energy dominance because you said in testimony it takes longer to permit an energy infrastructure project than to obtain a college degree yeah thank you very much for your question congresswoman yeah it simply doesn't
▶ 1:55:51have to be this way um there are we are ready to build the projects that we need in this country to address the growing demand and we can do it such that the energy produces affordable reliable and cleaner energy and the best way to get started API recommends a fivepoint policy road map permitting reform is a key part of that but we need to build not only pipelines for oil and gas but we also as been referenced on this panel we need to build it for CO2 uh because there's this is going to take an all of the above approach to meet the
▶ 1:56:21energy addition that the demand that we have uh requires going forward yes thank you ma'am um my colleagues on the other side seem to be insinuating that we don't need any new oil expansion to maintain our uh energy security and of course you said again which I say all the time energy security is National Security so would you like a moment to correct the record as to why we need new oil expansion ma'am absolutely and I'm a military spouse and I know the sacrifices that
▶ 1:56:51the men and women and the families of our service members make each and every day around this country and I think that the oil and gas industry plays an important part yesterday the president announced the return to his maximum pressure campaign against uh the country of Iran Iran is a net energy producer oil and gas in particular um and so we're looking at taking you know more than um a million barrels a day in production Off the Grid and so what what did markets do yesterday they kind of shrugged and the reason is Market Global
▶ 1:57:21Market understand that the United States is now the swing producer we don't have to be reliant on Iran or Russia we don't have to be relyant on cartels because the men and women of this industry can step up each and every day and imagine if we were not in a position that geopolitically we had the strength to say to Iran enough is enough and so American Oil and Gas plays a really important role here and we are proud for what we do each and every day yes and I agree with that um
▶ 1:57:52reports indicate that Elon mus Department of government efficiency may be setting their sights on the national uh Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or Noah my understanding is that Noah used a page out of the old Playbook of using The Endangered Species Act to attack attack oil and gas by the way uh of the rice as well you know the more I read about the rice as well I don't know if it's a new species they just discovered or it's an old species used to be called the Brut as well
▶ 1:58:23all I do know is it lives in the Gulf of America okay so what would you recommend to Doge with regards to the rice as well if and when they take a look at Noah thanks for your question look we need to get a biological opinion completed so we ensure that we don't have any interruptions and Productions in the Gulf of America it's very clear um that that energy produced in that area is among the cleanest barrels of oil produced on the planet it benefits not only
▶ 1:58:53consumers here in the United States but as we just discussed it benefits our allies around the world okay thank you for your answer and with that Mr chairman I yield back thank you the G yields back and the chair now recognizes the G from Texas's 7eventh district for five minutes for questions well thank you so much chairman L I'm so glad to work with you and everyone here on the subcommittee again this Congress and I want to thank our Witnesses for your testimony today it's been um incredibly useful
▶ 1:59:23and important um I represent the energy capital of the world in Houston and we know firsthand what unleashing American Energy looks like in 2023 Texas generated more electricity and produced more oil and gas than any other state Texas also LED all states in the United States in the production uh and generation of wind power and it was second in solar generation and battery storage capacity so like my colleagues I am disappointed Ed that in the first few days of
▶ 1:59:53President Trump's term he has politicized energy issues by declaring a national Energy emergency even though as we have heard today the United States is producing energy at record levels uh by resending many of the Biden administration's actions related to clean energy that we worked on in this committee and in the Congress by withholding funding by halting new offshore wind projects uh threatening baseless tariffs uh on resources that our domestic energy industry depends on potentially spiking prices for us consumers as as well and reducing the
▶ 2:00:23federal Workforce of regulators that we need in our energy sector among others we heard a little bit of that from uh congresswoman shrier members of this committee know that my constituents and I agree substantively on some of the policy inss that have been announced in recent in recent days um especially efforts to address permitting delays and reviewing re um renewing the review of LG export permits and I appreciated your testimony on that issue uh Mr Macau but the means employed
▶ 2:00:53to do this are deeply troubling and frankly I'm disappointed that this committee didn't get the permitting work done in the last Congress because that is what we're here to do and that's what we need to do I hope we'll be able to do it um in this Congress that said the sweeping orders that President Trump has signed really fail to give our energy industry the regulatory certainty it needs to succeed it's it's just not what unleashing American Energy looks like with the United States producing more more energy than ever before from all
▶ 2:01:24sources now is not the time to Halt Innovation much of which is happening in my district and my hometown near Mr Weber and not too far from Mr fluger Houston is home to 11% of us energy jobs and more than 4,700 energy related firms and the number one issue I hear about from people in the business who work in my district and Beyond many of the API members is the need to know the rules and requirements to
▶ 2:01:54trust that long-term projects can move forward once they are approved they need permitting certainty they need investment certainty they need to plan and before making these multi-billion dollar Investments that Americans rely on the people who are undertaking them need to be able to rely on the process and what we are seeing right now is a destruction of the process the legislative process the agency process a destruction that is going to have impacts and Chaos for years to come among other things
▶ 2:02:24having a reliable process means having qualified experienced personnel and the agencies responsible for the permitting process we have all seen the news of what's happening in the agencies and the directed directives from unelected billionaire Elon Musk um who now has access to all kinds of databases and has intern sending legally questionable memos to Career civil servants telling them to quit their jobs I can't imagine that anyone waiting on a permit wants that kind of chaos and delay it also
▶ 2:02:54supporting Investments of all kinds in energy to get and more energy to the grid for Americans and to continue to develop technologies that get more power onto the grid and technologies that we can export the war on wind and solar is nonsensical and don't just take it from me it was the Republicans in Texas president Trump's first Secretary of Energy then Governor Rick Perry that had the vision to build out our wind infrastructure more than two decades ago the diversity yes diversity of energy sources on our grid in
▶ 2:03:24Texas has spurred innovation of all kinds we have some of our own challenges to address with grid resiliency and demand but taking sources Off the Grid is not the way to solve it and it's critical as you said miss everol that lawmakers and Industry experts work together to implement Smart Energy policy that will be durable that will allow members of our communities to innovate create and plan for the future that we all want that said I've only got about 20 seconds left for questions so I am
▶ 2:03:54going to submit the many questions that I have for the panel for the record um but I really want to thank you all for your time each of you has questions coming from me and I'm sorry that with so much to say and so much going on I didn't get the chance to um have you answer them but I look forward to seeing your written responses on these hugely important issues thank you Mr chairman and iel back gent's back the balance of time the chair now recognizes the G lady from Iowa's first district for five minutes for questions um thank you chairman L and ranking member caster for holding this
▶ 2:04:24hearing today and I also want to thank our Witnesses for testifying before the subcommittee if you go to the house Chambers and you look above the seat of the speaker you'll find a saying that says let us develop the resources of our land and that's exactly what Iowa has done Iowa stands as a Powerhouse in America's renewable energy landscape and has transformed its agricultural abundance into vital biofuels producing over a quarter of the energy countryes fuel ethanol and biodiesel and
▶ 2:04:54trying to get into sustainable aviation fuel as well it's wind turbine second only to Texas harnessed the strong Prairie winds to generate an impressive 59% of the state's electricity and we're a net exporter of electricity this blend of agricultural might and renewable energy innovation has positioned Iowa as a crucial player in America's energy sector offering its residents some of the most affordable electricity rates in the country while maintaining High per capita energy consumption and also bringing businesses
▶ 2:05:24into our state that rely upon this mix we know that for the United States to be competitive economically that we have to have abundant affordable reliable secure energy and that's what this hearing is about Mr mcken I don't have a question for you I just want to thank you for your many years of service uh as a fellow veteran Miss everol thank you for also mentioning the tcja it needs to be reauthorized at the earliest possible date for stability and
▶ 2:05:55continuity Mr Arnold thank you for mentioning 45 q's and also Mr oconor and Mr Arnold thank you for mentioning Canadian Oil as I recall it was President Biden in an executive order who cancel the Keystone pip pipeline which led to the loss if I remember correctly about 11,000 American jobs most of those union jobs Mr mcgallen I'd like to ask you about the importance of any of the above energy Mex uh and we have most of them in the state of Iowa
▶ 2:06:25and that includes a diverse mix of generation sources we know that wind and solar have become significant parts of the electricity mix but they don't have a dispatchable continual base load and storage will help with that can you explain why it's important to our economic and National Security uh and I say that not as just equip it is tremendously important to National Security to have a diverse energy Supply from all generation sources and that is both abundant and affordable absolutely thank you so much for that question
▶ 2:06:55you know like we said you know don't put all of our eggs in one basket have difference and as I listen to both sides with believe it or not I think there's more consensus here than maybe we might think about some days we do need an approach that includes everything in our Energy Mix and that particular mix the percentages of that mix will change over time as technology and Innovation move forward the the trouble is if you push a transition and leading experts say transitions
▶ 2:07:25take years decades or even centuries you cannot will it through Congressional mandate overnight molecules do not respond that way uh we have to be careful about how we change this mix and we have to understand that reality of today is is that fossil fuels are powering the future and if we want to reduce our carbon footprint we should start by talking to the Chinese and the Indians and so with that the saf the ethanol the CCS projects that you have going on in your state
▶ 2:07:56are fundamentally crucial for this country and I think your state is a model of how to do things well as chair of the conservative climate caucus I believe that we can leave a cleaner healthier planet to our children and grandchildren and compete economically around the globe we should focus on reducing Admissions and solutions uh rather than trying to uh support uh and subsidize certain industries uh and you brought up a crucial point about carbon based fuels uh I too have a lot of questions which I'll submit from the record
▶ 2:08:26but miss iol expanding American energy production is crucial for keeping Energy prices affordable one of the things that's not been mentioned in this industry is the fracking Revolution led to saving according to NBR 11,000 American lives since 2005 lowering emissions in the United States greater than any other country while increasing energy Generation by 48% that's quite a stellar record so we know that it helps National Security our energy security it helps
▶ 2:08:56energy poverty and it drives economic growth the Administration has taken important steps like restarting the LG export approval process in your view what additional actions are needed to reduce barriers and accelerate development of America's vast energy resources because demand is only going up and we need every energy Supply generation that we can possibly muster using our naal resources thank you congresswoman I would point to api's fivepoint policy road map that contains solutions that we all need to benefit from
▶ 2:09:27thank you all submit questions for the record I yell back thank you very much General lady was back your time and the chair now recognizes the general lady from New York's 14th District five minut questions thank you so much Mr chair um at the beginning of this term president Trump uh president Trump has allegedly promised to cut Energy prices to Americans in half Within 18 months a tall order and for the record the price of gas on the day that President Trump was sworn in was about
▶ 2:09:57$31 a gallon yet this past weekend Donald Trump announced one of his first major energy price policies which is gas tariffs uh including broader tariffs on Canada and Mexico um Mr Connor the broad tariffs on Canada and Mexico the 25% tariffs also include tariffs on energy correct correct okay and what percent
▶ 2:10:28of us crude oil imports come from Canada Mexico I think between 50 and 60% from Canada and around 10% uh from Mexico that's what we see here about 60% of the crude oil that the US Imports comes from Canada and about 10% comes from Mexico so we're talking about 23 of all us crude oil imports come from Canada and Mexico
▶ 2:10:59and if they come from those two countries and Donald Trump is announcing overnight tariffs uh on these two Nations let's dig into what that means if we were to place tariffs on 2third of the United States crude oil imports what impact would that have on prices yeah they would they would increase um I I think I saw something from Yale that said gas prices would increase about 4% but significantly more in the midwest uh and then we'd also see higher prices
▶ 2:11:29from natural gas I think MRI in the Pacific Northwest you import quite a bit of natural gas from Canada so those prices would go up and of course New York uh Imports Hydro from Hydro Quebec and uh frankly it's unclear to me how uh the tariffs would apply to electricity but I think nyso is Express concerned that would raise prices in electricity prices in New York and these tariffs will increase prices in other as well so what I'm hearing is that despite all of this talk that Donald Trump and the Republican Party have about driving down
▶ 2:11:59energy costs their first decisions are actually to drive up energy C costs including prices at the pump across the United States and that has knock on effects across the entire economy right these prices are not just contained they're not just hiking prices on oil and gas oil and gas prices will then hike up prices on groceries and pretty much any good that gets transported as well as housing and construction correct yeah that's right okay and so we are looking at almost an
▶ 2:12:29all economy increase in prices and that has also been backed up in previous uh price changes as well in fact oil production and what we've seen is that 2023 and some of these gas price increases um we saw KnockOn effects across the entire economy before right with gas yes okay so I think what we need to really hone in on here is the fact that uh what we're
▶ 2:13:00seeing is that the Trump Administration is saying one thing but doing another and if the Trump Administration is promising to lower energy prices it's important for us to ask why are they making decisions to do the opposite um but let hope you're not oh I hope you're not asking me that question I don't I think we'll dig into it um so let's pause for a second and I want to put a pin in that and let's talk about Solutions because while preventing these short-term spikes is important we do
▶ 2:13:30need to invest in the long-term infrastructure to actually drive down Energy prices and what the Trump Administration is doing is not just doing tariffs but they're also attacking expansion and energy production on renewable energy as well and more energy means more energy across the board so what would be also the KnockOn effects of reducing renewable energy production while increasing tariffs on oil and gas yeah I think we're going to see higher electricity prices
▶ 2:14:00higher oil and gas prices I think Miss everol mentioned the need for permitting reform it's notable that one of President Trump's first actions was to pause permitting for projects uh wind and solar projects particularly but not exclusively on federal lands so I think we'll see the KnockOn effects and consumers will unfortunately uh pay the price so we're talking about an explosion of prices but when we talk about also as well as permiting reform I also just want to acknowledge Mr Arnold in some of your statements you've made on geothermal energy um I think that one of the areas that we can find bipartisan
▶ 2:14:31agreement is the fact that we do want to make uh plenty of jobs in this country especially for Pipe Fitters I know you're from Colorado but we work with our pipe fitters in New York and uh in order for us to really invest in in projects that'll create jobs for not just your union but Americans uh in and not just your local but Americans and locals like yours across the the country uh is tremendously important especially in areas where we can invest in those projects while also cleaning up our energy Supply so thank you the gentle lady time has expired
▶ 2:15:01and the chair now recognizes gentlemen from Michigan's 10th district for one five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman uh apparently uh Democrat gas lighting produces zero emissions um but what does their radical agenda mean for constituents in my districts and and your districts who pay more the pump who pay more for groceries uh folks in southeast Michigan have experienced their jobs being extinct being shipped to other states being shipped to other countries because Green New
▶ 2:15:31Deal woke policies do not work in the real world let's look at this from a 30,000 foot view over the past four years every American has footed a higher gas bill higher energy cost and Rising price to keep their cars running in their homes heated under the Biden Harris Administration they totally bent over to the radical left we stopped producing cleaner affordable energy in America to fit a narrative that only serves Coastal Elites in the rich in New York and California what did this lead to our strategic petroleum reserves hit lows we haven't seen since I
▶ 2:16:01was a baby that meant us relying on energy that was unclean energy that I would note are from dictators and despat in Moscow and Beijing and tayron here's the Inconvenient Truth for my friends on the left energy produced and developed here in America is cleaner it's safer and it doesn't threaten our national security in fact it bolsters it and what's worse relying on our adversaries for energy means American Jobs go down not up my constituents in the Detroit area are all too familiar with this seeing the Reckless policy effects
▶ 2:16:32of the EV mandates another failed policy billable to the Biden Administration is importing sour crude which has funded our adversaries and we talk about infrastructure Investments uh on the left side well how about shutting down the Keystone Pipeline which got rid of 11,000 union jobs now the Democrats Green New Deal agenda is the Grim Reaper for American jobs and actually cleaning energy being able to actually move forward into a future where we can all have cheaper safer cleaner energy is our goal all of the above is the
▶ 2:17:02approach line five pipeline is something that is a critical artery of energy for transporting crude and natural gas from western Canada which goes through Michigan through the great lakes and line five is not just an economic driver for Michigan but also provides energy to the east side of Canada unfortunately radical environmentalists and ambitious politicians in both Lancing and Ottawa become obstacles to Common Sense they're banding together to shut down line five in violation of a treaty that we have with our Canadian neighbors Miss evera in your expert opinion do you believe that restrictions
▶ 2:17:32like those restrictions um on line five and having an all of the above energy approach continuing to trade with our Canadian allies makes us weaker or stronger indeed these restrictions make us weaker thank you two weeks ago Michigan State Regulators approved 2117 million rake height on the DTE Energy a power provider in southeast Michigan according to M mpsc the state regulator DTE must charge consumers more to upgrade old power lines and continue maintenance
▶ 2:18:03to improve reliability now we know that Michigan is now ranked 38 out of 50 uh for having the highest energy cost uh Mr maau in your expert opinion is this a recipe for Success increasing cost in price without also having permitting reform and allowing and all the above approach to include natural gas to smooth our way away from coal uh and smooth our way toward nuclear or do increased regulations uh increased cost on consumers Mr James your spot on increased regulations
▶ 2:18:33increase cost and far too often utilities are more than happy just to pass that along to the consumer instead of investing some of their profits back as well thank you last year I spoke on the house floor about how Biden's war on LNG was going to Harm Michigan specifically we have a one .1 trillion cubic feet in underground storage which is 1/8 1/8 of the entire nation's natural gas storage capacity given DTE and uh and consumers base load requirements that are increasing over the years versus the regulations
▶ 2:19:03in Michigan we've been dealing with heavy-handed restrictions on building additional natural gas facilities and the supporting infrastructure requirements that we need to convey that safely um with less power outages uh across the state with a republican house Republican Senate and White House what can this Congress do do to scale up natural gas as a reliable source again Mr Macau well uh there are several things we can do number one is uh we can stop the war on fossil fuels um we can have revised permitting we can evoke public private
▶ 2:19:34Partnerships loan guarantees some of the very same things that have been done for the renewable industry could be done uh to expand our natural gas or other fossil fuel industry too it should be a a Level Playing Field for everybody we all want clean air we all want clean water we all want to reduce pollution ution but we also don't want to send our countrymen to the poor house trying to pay for Sunshine and uh and rainbows that uh before our infrastructure is ready for it the uh the the former president's LG war
▶ 2:20:04is top um well let me I'm running out of time here so I'll just say uh we need to have something that's environmentally economically uh friendly and I plan to work on an all of the above energy approach with my colleagues on the left and right thank you Mr chairman thank you much gentlemen's time has expired the chair now recognized is a gentleman from Massachusetts fourth district for five minutes for questions thank you chairman uh we have heard during this hearing about an all of the above energy strategy and the chairman himself talked about not picking winners or losers
▶ 2:20:34in our energy policy and yet the president came into office and immediately picked a loser in the energy approach which was to say issuing a moratorium on offshore wind production this not only is going to raise costs for consumers particularly in Massachusetts were up to a million homes could have been powered by offshore wind in a reliable and affordable manner it also in my own District cost hundreds of good jobs the company prism and a cable manufacturing company was supposed to build
▶ 2:21:04a $300 million Manu manufacturing plant in Somerset at Bron point they had negotiated all the permits they had signed all the deals and they walked away after Donald Trump took office because they could not deal with the uncertainty that he had engendered now miss everol I know that API has actually worked on offshore issues with the offshore wind industry and I must ask you well this moratorium itself is not problematic for you and your constituency do you think
▶ 2:21:34it's a good president precedent excuse me that a new chief executive can walk in and based off an EO drafted by one member of Congress who hates offshore wind do you think it's a good precedent that one new chief executive can come in and Target a specific industry within a moratorium given what you've said about the need for rule of law and certainty in investment yeah Congressman thank you for your question I think this is the perfect example where we see that policy has real consequences our industry representing oil and natural gas of course certainly felt
▶ 2:22:05this in the last Administration when there was an allout ban on lmg exports nothing that happened in the last Administration even approaches a moratorium on entire sector of energy production you can imagine right despite what Donald Trump says he ain't serving a third term a Democratic president can take office in 2029 and how would API feel if a Democratic president acted towards the petroleum offshore production in the same way that Donald Trump has just acted towards offshore wind production is that something that would engender business confidence
▶ 2:22:35in your constituency I'm actually really reassured because the substance of what we've talked about today there's a lot of agreement you know swinging in either direction by the way every I'll reclaim my time what I'm not hearing from you is any full-throated support of this precedent because I think you recog ize that empowering one individual to cancel an entire industry is not good business for API and I would just caution my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that what goes around comes around moving towards an area where I think there's could be more bipartisan
▶ 2:23:06consensus is geothermal uh what's clear is uh hot rock geothermal in particular which is the ability to drill 5 6 seven miles beneath the earth's surface has the tremendous potential to unlock clean reliable High base load power and uh it can be a bipartisan issue we can drill we can drill clean energy uh we can reindustrialize big segments of the United States and in terms of energy security
▶ 2:23:36we can be an exporter of a technology that can retrofit many of the coal fired power plants that China and India are currently building getting us closer to 1.7 degrees Celsius by 2050 this is a a triple win issue Mr oconor what would be the effect on repealing the robust Suite of tax credits the tech neutral tax credits in the ira for our ability to do next Generation hot rock geothermal yeah thank you for the question um and I think you've you've kind of answered it in the question which is the technology neutral tax credits
▶ 2:24:06incentivize uh geothermal production and so if you were to repeal the IRA you would necessarily be undermining that industry right at the time that it's really poised to take off I yield back my time thank you very much the gentlemen yelds back and the chair now recognizes gentle lady from Florida's 15th district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman for holding this important hearing and to our Witnesses for being here today today's hearing makes
▶ 2:24:36clear for all of us that energy Independence is critical for our national security and our economic strength on day one of his administration president Trump made clear that he will restore the United States to a position of energy dominance reversing dangerous and failed anti-energy policies of the Biden Harris Administration that forced us to rely upon our adversaries for energy needs while driving up costs for everyday Americans I appreciate the testimony
▶ 2:25:06and insight from our Witnesses today about the actions Congress can take to help unleash our energy production restore National Security and lower costs for my constituents in Florida and Americans across the nation Mr maau I'd like to return to your testimony the Biden administration's fixation in particular on EV mandates ignored the economic realities and geopolitical considerations of the manufacturing supply chain
▶ 2:25:37we know that China exploits their dominance over critical mineral processing facilities and the supply chain for Ev manufacturing we've also seen firsthand in my district and other places how disastrous and inadequate these vehicles can be in the event of extreme weather last year you penned a letter to President Biden along with 16 former military and National Security Experts highlighting concerns about how the rush to Electrify our transportation industry
▶ 2:26:08will further deepen our nation's Reliance on an adversarial Nation like China uh Mr chairman I'd like to ask for unanimous consent to include this letter into the record without without objection so ordered uh Mr maau would you expand on the purpose of this letter and why a substantial community of National Security Experts maintain concerns about domestic policies that effectively mandate electric vehicles sure Mrs Lee thank you for the question
▶ 2:26:38um yeah look it's um I'm not anti- evev I own one uh but it works in some instances better than it works in other instances it is a grade around the town car it is great if you have a a wall box in your house it can charge overnight but that B that EV battery came from China the raw materials came from China we are at a huge deficit when it comes to being able to produce outside of the Chinese supply chain the rare earth materials critical minerals
▶ 2:27:08that we need number one number two uh while they're an important component of our overall Transportation Fleet it's not the only answer and EVS are not the only answer for everything they just don't work in circumstances I've operated them in Alaska I've driven them across country longer conversation for a different time they're just not quite ready for Mass application and further uh to Electrify this the Energy System the electricity grid
▶ 2:27:39as Mr Peters has pointed out we've been unable to add power to the grid for decades the grid is not ready to handle that load and the fixation about banning gas would even push more natural gas would push even more onto the electric grid it's just not smart policy I also noted in your written testimony you included the statement that attempts to demand an energy transition cannot be willed by policy makers physics beats policy every day tell us what you mean by that statement
▶ 2:28:09sure um you know there are promising Technologies uh we talked about uh geothermal from gentleman from Massachusetts it has strong promise we haven't yet talked about hydrogen that also offer some strong promise but you know these Technologies take time I'd like to have a fusion reactor tomorrow it's not ready yet and we can't mandate the deployment of fusion where it doesn't exist we can't mandate the deployment of certain Technologies by picking winners and losers through tax credits incentives or straight up taxes
▶ 2:28:40to change the real world we need to invest in R&D and we need to be patient and we can keep moving toward a cleaner future while not losing affordability or reliability you also mentioned twin goals of supply and resilience as being part of energy security overall I'd like to ask specifically about the resilience piece and what you can share with us on the types of cyber threats that pose a risk to the security of our energy
▶ 2:29:10infrastructure uh yes I mean it's obvious that the more interconnected we become the more vulnerable we are to outside actors and malicious threats we've seen that with the colonial pipeline system we've seen that with other infrastructure systems and U yeah another reason why we need um um I'm sorry we need um resil not only resilience but backup systems secondary systems we can't put all of our eggs in one bag and electrifying everything is putting all your eggs
▶ 2:29:40in one bag right now thank you Mr chairman I yield back thank you very much General lady's time has expired and the chair now recognizes the general lady from Virginia's fourth district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman and ranking member caster for holding this hearing and to the witnesses for being here um I want to start with saying that the dismantling of the federal government agencies that we are seeing right now is alarming and the Trump administration's unprecedented attacks with
▶ 2:30:11help of Elon Musk on our federal work force and critical programs harm all Americans regardless of who they voted for this damage affects every industry in our nation including the industry as a state senator I led the passage of the Virginia clean economy act in 1920 uh sorry 2020 making the Commonwealth the First Southern state with 100% clean energy standard and it has spurred economic growth as clean
▶ 2:30:41energy jobs in Virginia have grown more than three and a half times faster than overall employment with over a 100,000 clean energy jobs jobs in 2022 alone and it's driven major projects like the coastal Virginia offshore wind project which supports nearly a, jobs and $143 million in annual economic input output similarly the Commonwealth Fusion systems have recently announced that they're going to build the world's first commcial
▶ 2:31:11commercial fusion power plant in my district and in over five years this facility could generate enough clean energy to power 150,000 Virginia homes and given the increased energy demand that we have heard so much about in this hearing today I am perplexed by the Trump administration's plan as outlined in Project 2025 to kill homegrown wind and solar and clean energy illegally Rob thousands of energy
▶ 2:31:41projects Across America of billions of dollars of investment and declare a nonsensical Energy emergency that simply does doesn't exist and the administration's sole focus on building more fossil fuel infrastructure that locks us into Decades of harmful emissions that not only hurt our environment but our national security interest as a member a former member of the armed services committee as we have seen how climate chain impa change
▶ 2:32:11impacts our military Readiness operations and our service members as the largest naval base in the world sees more and more storms and rain that bisects the base in half when it floods and people can't get from one side to the other as just one example now I also want to address the Trump administration's posture towards liquefied natural gas in
▶ 2:32:41December the department of energy released a study on the impacts of LG exports and secretary granholm made clear that allowing unconstrained lgir exports would increase domestic wholesale natural gas prices by 30% and cost households well over $100 a year this in addition to the climate impact and environmental harms to overburden communities near Export facilities and so Mr chair
▶ 2:33:11I asked unanimous consent to enter secretary granholm's statements into the record with objections so ordered thank you Mr chairman it's also worth noting that last year House Republicans tried to pass a bill to eliminate the requirement for the Department of energy to review whether LG exports serve the public interest even though the public interest standard has been used for over a century for just about every energy project ever done
▶ 2:33:42and so I want to ask Mr okor if you could explain the importance of the natural gas acts requirement for the Department of energy to ensure that lerg exports are in the public interest sure thank you for the question so as you noted the natural gas act requires the department of energy to evaluate whether an LG export application is in the public interest it's my personal View and I think something that's probably consistent with Mr mowen's view that LG exports to NATO allies for instance is in the National
▶ 2:34:12interest because we're supporting critical allies but I think at the same time it's also important to evaluate the impacts to domest to Americans and domestic gas prices and I think the the public interest test that's performed or public interest analysis that's performed I think reasonably credits the National Security benefits and the investment benefits that LG exports might bring to the United States and to our allies while also balancing concerns against the impacts to Consumers which I think we'd all want to know before making any decision thank you Mr chair and again I would just note after having spent
▶ 2:34:4225 years as a utility regulatory lawyer the public interest standard has been used in every single Energy electric project component at the state level and the federal level for over a decade and I think any effort to roll it back is dangerous indeed and with that I yield back the gentl yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Ohio's 6 district for five minutes
▶ 2:35:12for questions thank you chairman uh this question is from uh Miss ever so Ohio 6 produces 90% of the state's natural gas and Utica Wells and are breaking oil production records I understand intangible drilling costs represent 85% of the cost of just drilling a brand new well and this would in turn affect wages for workers like Mr Arnold the inflation reduction act attacks blue collar workers period
▶ 2:35:43by taking away oil and gas companies ability to deduct idc's under the block minimum tax why do other Industries get to write off their business's expenses while the oil and gas industry does not it's a great question we hope that this is something that we can be addressed in this Congress um because what we need to do is encourage continued investment here in this country and that provision which is not unique to oil and gas we're just simply asking that it be fairly applied across all
▶ 2:36:13Industries in including mine thank you thank you so much I have a second question for Mr McCown the Biden Administration showed that tomorrow's energy production and that the United States position as a global leader can be hurt by policies put in place today in your opinion what is the single most important policy that we can Champion to ensure America's energy dominance and National Security going forward I think we can Shure a a Level Playing Field that understands
▶ 2:36:43that um we need the best of the above which includes most of our energy resources while helping research and development for emerging sources but at some point these Commodities need to stand on their own they need to be commercially viable we have to look at the cheapest most reliable sources possible to power our base load energy excellent answer in in in my opinion so in Ohio 6 we have enough uticom or sell a shell to supply the Earth for about
▶ 2:37:13500 years and in reality when you take that into consideration we could put an end to Middle Eastern Wars where none of our boys or girls ever die again in a middle eastern War we have no business being and I thank you for your opinion with that chair I yield my time back thank you very much to gentleman y's time and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas's 11th District for five I'm sorry for 33rd district for five minutes for questions Mr chairman thank you very much and uh want to thank the panelists for
▶ 2:37:43being here um what I'm worried about right now is the hail that is being Unleashed on the American public the hell that is being Unleashed on uh employees all around the country that have anxiety about what is going to happen next uh news about the CIA today that stuff is unsettling and none of that stuff is good for energy production uh in this country and I'm glad that we're having this hearing uh because we do need to figure out ways that we can talk
▶ 2:38:14about this subject and it not be so uh divisive I like uh the comments of everol made earlier today like it doesn't have to be this huge US versus them type deal this is not the Cowboys versus the Eagles because it's Cowboys versus Eagles I'm telling you how I'm going to be for who I'm going to root for every time and this conversation doesn't need need to be that way uh but I'm worried and one of the things that that honestly really worries me as a Texan that has been down to the peran Basin and knows how it works is
▶ 2:38:44uh the hail and U that's been Unleashed when it comes to the area of immigration anybody that's been down there knows it's it's it's no secret anyone that has been down there knows that if you were to really do a mass deportation in this country and clean this country out uh and send everybody to Guantanamo or wherever else that you ain't pumping a dang thing out of the ground in the perum Basin because several of those jobs in that
▶ 2:39:14area particularly some of the more dangerous some of the the jobs that the more entry level jobs are done by people in this country that are undocumented but we're not talking about that we're not talking about that at all and how we can work together to pass some sort of comprehensive immigration bill so we can have a more stable uh employment uh base when it comes to when it comes to Upstream energy production uh uh it's crazy in the Texas legislature last session
▶ 2:39:45they had a bill the Republicans had a bill that uh would have put a this really strict ever verify because everyone knows what's happening down there they use these third-party companies to bring in these workers and so it gives uh the larger companies cover to have these people working down there that are undocumented here and they get get them papers and they give them everything but instead of trying to actually fix this problem and make people not have to worry about how they're going to do that and cause uncertainty uh in the markets uh then
▶ 2:40:15we we play this game on immigration instead of us actually coming together and and and and and and the Republicans here that serve on this panel with me from Texas they know that that e verify bill was killed uh because of Industries like uh construction and energy that didn't want to touch the topic uh because like Dr Perryman said who's one of our state's leading economists that used to work for Rick Perry who was a trump appointee to Secretary of Energy that if you Deport all these people the
▶ 2:40:45way that they're saying and you unleash this mass chaos that it would actually bankrupt Texas and bankrupt this country but no we're not really talking about that uh and that's really unfortunate uh look I want to work with my Republican colleagues on this issue uh I've agreed to work on this to be a part of this bipartisan caucus that's being created on on energy security uh because I think that it's important but some of these o these other overarching issues around these tariffs
▶ 2:41:15and immigration and this madness that that's been Unleashed we really do need to address those and in the and in the brief time that I have left uh I just wanted to ask Mr Arnold your testimony highlights some great work that's been done in Louisiana and Colorado and I commend you for the work that's been done there but I did want to get your impressions on what repealing Ira tax credits like 45q would do for these projects uh shouldn't we if we're really
▶ 2:41:46for all of the above and really concern concerned about energy dominance in this country shouldn't we be working to expand those opportunities thank you very much for the question absolutely as included in my written testimony uh fully supportive of 45q tax credits I think they're critical to the support of carbon capture sequestration systems and projects moving forward and certainly appreciative to any support for uh nuclear
▶ 2:42:16power generation as well as the other alternative energy that we've listed blue hydrogen biofuels geothermal I just think uh we're we're asking for support of all those good jobs and let's look at the number of jobs and the quality of jobs uh and make sure we having policies that are supporting where where those good jobs are created where they exist uh thank you and Mr chairman I hope that we can continue to have some discussions on how we can really unleash America
▶ 2:42:46America's energy dominance in this country by addressing some of the overarching issues and coming up with some real solutions on things like immigration reform in this country and and doing away with this silly talk about these tariffs which looks like they're paper paper tiger talks on tariffs thank you thank you the gentleman's time has expired and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Oregon second district for five minutes questions thank you thank you Mr chair um everold I'm when I looked at this uh hearing title today I I
▶ 2:43:16saw it was unleashing America's energy I thought it should have also included the word keeping America's energy I say that because I'm from Oregon and we have Bonville power Administration which was mentioned earlier by the congresswoman from Washington um and it has about 18 hydroelectric dams four of which have been targeted by the Biden Administration to be removed about a th000 megawatts of firm power but it can go up to 3,000 in a pinch and the dams could actually be increased in size
▶ 2:43:46to add considerably more generation yet the Biden Administration through the CQ had decided that it could cause these dams to be removed for reasons having little to do with fish and lots to do politics this is a huge part of the Bonville power administration's firm power Arrangement which acts as a balancing thing for all kinds of intermittent power uh producing things that have been put in solar and wind and the like my question to you
▶ 2:44:16though has to do with refineries because refineries are integral to how we keep this country going and yet I understood SE several years ago that we were dramatically short on diesel refineries in fact when they shift shifted our fleets all of our fleets over to cleaner fuel we thought there would be a huge shortage apparently we were able to avoid that in some fashion but what I'm most concerned about when it comes to unleashing our energy is making sure we have a way to actually
▶ 2:44:46uh make it work for us before or you answer and I want to ask this because you can answer that and then there's also an attempt in Oregon and California under the Clean Air Act California's Clean Air Act to ban diesel trucks so having lots of diesel doesn't do you much good if you don't have a place to use it so unleashing all this energy is no good if you can't get your hands on it and use it so first question what are you doing to maintain the refining cap capabilities of America and secondly what do we do about this attempt to destroy our markets by Banning diesel
▶ 2:45:17fuel Congressman Thank you very very much for your question unfortunately there has not been a largescale Refinery built in this country since 1977 it just doesn't make any sense the technology the way that our our energy markets were set up in in the late 70s does not reflect how the energy realities are of today um and unfortunately what we're seeing is the signals that are being sent to the marketplace is that gosh we shouldn't do this in the United States I I completely disagree we need to
▶ 2:45:47add refining capacity here in the United States we do a lot of work through Innovation and that's and that's great but that only takes us to a certain point so we need to critically address permitting reform it's important for our refining sector and then I'm sorry the second question the second question well it doesn't do you much good if you have refining if you have no place to sell your product so like I think the concept was well we'll ban the use of diesel and he heavy trucks and and that way it won't matter if you have refining capacity so my question to
▶ 2:46:17you is when we talk about unleashing energy shouldn't the conversation be broad enough to address how we can use it uh AB absolutely and specifically you know Banning certain forms of energy it just doesn't make any sense we're in a we're in a position right now where it's about energy addition diesel literally Powers our economy um it is a reason why we are able to move things around this country efficiently um and we need to continue to be able to do that what we also need to be able to do is think about emissions reductions from the context of
▶ 2:46:47the maximum uh reduction of emissions from the atmosphere for the minimum cost to society that unlocks an entirely different set of choices rather than we look at things in kind of in in isolation so you mentioned earlier and many people talk about the need to do something about permitting and I think your phrase was uh these types of activities receive quote a high level of scrutiny which is the understatement of of the entire morning or afternoon um what would you specifically state that we should be doing in the permitting
▶ 2:47:17space I I have a lengthy background in this area but I want to hear from you guys what is it that we should be doing when it comes to uh making permitting work better yeah three things in particular uh we need to avoid the further weaponization of NEPA of the Clean Water Act because that is those Provisions um are being used to stop energy you mean the abuse by lawyers taking this and bringing you into court and keeping you there for the rest of your life correct through unending Discovery and all of that corre that's one what's the
▶ 2:47:48second correct and then judicial reform right anyone anywhere anytime can stop these projects we have we have to end the ability of the courts to stop rational energy development both of oil and gas but also of projects across the so I hate to interrupt you but you know I left the Judiciary Committee to come to this committee I'm now on this committee so telling me to go back to I'm not going to do it we need your help everywhere okay thank you uh yield back thank you the gentleman yields back uh and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey's 8th
▶ 2:48:18District for five minutes for questions thank you chairman thank you ranking member Mr OK Conor I want to talk about the funding frees that the president put in place for investments from the inflation reduction Act and the infrastructure investment and jobs act to be clear the freeze is illegal and litigation has put a stop to it for now what should be problematic to all of us is the fact that this illegal freeze would prevent Investments that would improve American fam's lives provide relief to our constituents
▶ 2:48:48with respect to their utility bills and do exactly that which we are talking about here today investing in America's energy dominance further we've heard a lot from our colleagues across the aisle and from the president about affordability being a top concern but now the president and republicans in Congress are supporting actions that will make people's monthly bills more expensive additionally there are reports of companies that were set up to take advantage of these Investments having to lay off employ employees
▶ 2:49:19because of the freeze Mr Conor could you talk about the negative impacts of this freeze in terms of the direct impacts to Americans yeah thank you for the question it's directly impacting Americans and it's directly impacting American companies um I think as folks have noted in in the course of previous questions a number of uh efficiency rebates weatherization programs and there's a number of programs that directly benefit Americans by helping them save on their electricity and other costs we're also seeing the impact to American companies now
▶ 2:49:49and that's going to have a flowdown effect to American consumers we don't bring new generation online if we put pauses on hydrogen hubs which I know I think Miss Fletcher had has one in her District uh if we put uh pauses on other sources of federal funding then there's going to be fewer jobs at these projects fewer carbon capture projects fewer saff projects uh and people are going to feel it directly in their pocketbooks I appreciate that you mentioned your testimony that you represent energy developers the ones actually going out and building the infrastructure that we rely on but I'm worried
▶ 2:50:19about the message that has been sent over the last week if energy developers are hearing that they can't trust a contract with the federal government for a federal obligation will M will that make them more or less likely to invest in the United States yeah less likely thank you and will that drive prices up or down for consumers will drive prices up thank you throughout his first few weeks in office president Trump has issued multiple executive orders to establish the United States as the global leader in energy dominance these executive orders largely
▶ 2:50:49focus on fossil fuels while gutting Key Programs that invest in renewable energy such as wind and solar Mr OK Conor if we truly want to seek energy dominance wouldn't we want in all of the above strategy that would require investments in clean and renewable energy yes thank you and as we move forward should energy dominance come at the expense of ongoing investments in environmental justice no thank you because I'm concerned that certain communities
▶ 2:51:20like the ones that I represent in Elizabeth and the iron bound of Newark which have suffered the environmental Injustice that has existed for far too long are no longer part of the equation as we think about how we move forward I want to ensure that their interests are continue or continually continuously are of consideration and in mind as we move forward switching gear slightly just this week the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities announced they will not be awarding a bid on new offshore wind development citing uncertainty in federal
▶ 2:51:50actions as part of their reasoning now the timeline for offshore wind projects in New Jersey is uncertain due to the president's executive order that halted the issuance of approvals permits and loans for onshore and offshore wind projects Mr OK Conor how can uncertainty during Administration changes like the one we are seeing right now impact our ability to plan long-term for energy projects yeah I think one consistent theme you've heard from the witnesses here is that large scale energy infrastru structure projects are time intensive they're
▶ 2:52:20resource intensive and you need to have some element of regulatory certainty it certainly doesn't help when you have an Administration come in and pull the rug out from under companies and so I think it with respect to the offshore wind industry in particular this is an industry that's invested over 6.6 billion dollar at this point in manufacturing facilities in the United States to make cables foundations and other components they've invested more than two billion dollar in shipyards uh including in Florida Louisiana Michigan Mississippi Pennsylvania Texas and and created the uh 24 new US
▶ 2:52:50offshore wind vessels so I think we're seeing the float there are both the direct impacts right because of pausing these offshore projects but they're also going to be flowdown impacts to a lot of communities because those shipyards and those manufacturing facilities are relying on this industry many of whom frankly are in the oil and gas industry and making investments in offshore and those Investments go directly into our communities they employ our constituents is that correct correct so in the last two seconds what long-term impacts could that have on our ability to be a global leader in energy yeah it's going to have
▶ 2:53:20a delerious impact thank you all for your testimony you back the gentleman's time has expired the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Colorado's e8th district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman thank you ranking member and thank you to the witnesses for coming today uh Mr Arnold as you know there's been a lot of talk in our home state of Colorado around mandatory electrification in fact just last month the Colorado Public Utilities Commission approved the Black Hills plan which implements first in the nation uh electrification mandates
▶ 2:53:51now you and I both know that uh 80% of coloradans support uh policies that preserve voluntary access to their choice of energy all of the above energy policies including natural gas so to get a clearer picture of the impact of mandatory electrification just a couple quick questions for you recent study from coloradans for energy access found that uh these electrification mandates could mean um that the average electric bill for the average Coloradan goes to 8 $0000 a month would your brothers and sisters and local
▶ 2:54:21208 be able to maintain their current standard of living if utility bills were that high U thank you for the question the quick quick answer is no they wouldn't be able to afford those types of bills and then can you talk a little bit about the impact that mandatory electrification would have on the ability of your brothers and sisters and local 208 to get good paying jobs or to welcome new members in through your very robust apprenticeship program so it's certainly going to have a tremendous negative effect uh we have a a section of our membership that does nothing but Gas Distribution
▶ 2:54:52work every day all day uh and to lose those opportunities and those paychecks would would be uh severely negative effects on on those brothers and sisters and then finally in your experience as a pipe fitter and a union member do you find that policies like mandatory electrification benefit everyone uh or do they favor High income earners uh who get the bulk of the benefit over middle class folks thank you for the question uh you know certainly we always take a look at it from the jobs piece because that's
▶ 2:55:22our livelihood and how we support our families but as you noted we're all consumers as well and when we look at those programs and the discussions in Colorado I think have lacked uh the equity piece uh when when you provide support to uh folks typically it's going to be the wealthier coloradans that get to take advantage of those programs and at the same time that means that we're asking uh poor call Rens to to support the financial requirements of the existing systems that are still badly
▶ 2:55:52needed and utilized when it comes to things like Gas Distribution infrastructure thank you miss eversaw moving to you uh I represent much of the Denver Julesburg Basin in Colorado which is one of the most prolific energy producing regions uh in the country unfortunately state and federal regulations have caused countless jobs to leave my district in favor of other parts of the country that are more welcoming uh to this critical injur uh industry one of the primary reason I ran for Congress was to protect the energy heavy heavy livelihoods of the men and
▶ 2:56:22women who call Colorado's eighth District home now we keep hearing uh that uh the US is producing record amounts of of energy but it's not enough we just heard commentary about what we're importing from Canada uh specific to my area United Power one of my local electric utilities is projecting that they're going to need triple the amount of power uh in 10 years that they have now and that's after doubling it in the last 10 years and so that means relying on all of the
▶ 2:56:52above energy policies including natural gas and so the question to you is what can we do as federal policy makers to create an environment that's more hospitable to domestic energy development um particularly around uh oil and gas and particularly in difficult States like Colorado uh Congressman thank you very much for your question one thing that we haven't talked a lot about today is 25% of uh exploration and production for oil and gas takes place on federal lands and in federal waters and the last
▶ 2:57:22Administration unfortunately um last year alone was the first year since 1966 that there wasn't a lease sale in federal waters and it really it just doesn't have to be that way um we can we need to have access to our raw materials but we can do it in a way that's responsible because the American Consumer is the one who benefits through affordable reliable and cleaner energy thank you and then uh something that's specific to Colorado but I think replicated around the country in Southern Colorado we have this thing
▶ 2:57:53called uh coed methane seeps the vapor pressure underground literally seeps raw methane into the atmosphere uh is there anything that Congress can do to better incentivize methane practices while boosting our domestic energy production uh absolutely uh our industry is focused on ensuring that not not only does Methane stay in the pipes but they were able to detect it and so we look forward to working together with you and other members of this committee to ensure that we are able to um remove as much methane as possible from the atmosphere
▶ 2:58:23and when you are able to harness that methane from the methane seeps does that reduce the methane that seeps into the atmosphere naturally indeed it does thank you yield back Jim yields back the balance of this time and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas's 12th District for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman very much um thank you panelists for being um miss ersa you talked about permitting um in four years of being the
▶ 2:58:53Texas house chair of energy I never heard of that being a problem in Texas thank you re commission of Texas what can we do better um federally to help with the permitting process yeah I I would commend the API fivepoint policy road map which articulates in great detail um some of the specific changes to permitting reform um but in particular focusing on just stopping the weaponization of the Clean Water Act or of NEPA for example
▶ 2:59:23and we have to stop uh using the courts as a way to stop these energy projects um we've got to get shovels in the ground it helps American workers um and this isn't this unfortunately isn't unique just to oil and gas we've heard it across the entire energy Spectrum at the end of the day we need more energy not less and I think we ought to build it here in the United States of America thank you um and I'll pivot right to Mr Arnold let's talk about jobs um I know if an 18-year-old graduates high school and moves to Mr fluger district
▶ 2:59:54and gets a job in the oil fields what that what that salary pays what do they pay in Denver or in Colorado what if you're an 18-year-old if you graduate high school you move out to where your world is what's the starting salary job and where could they be in five to 10 years uh so if if uh thank you for the question yeah uh if you if you uh grow up in in our you know our part of the country uh you're going to start as a first year Apprentice making
▶ 3:00:24$23 an hour plus health benefits and access to free Career Training at the end of that five-year apprenticeship program right now currently uh a a journey man or woman pipe fitter is going to make 4750 an hour plus health and retirement benefits on top of that which means spouses dependents nothing's coming out of the paycheck to provide those things uh typically we're going to be somewhere around in the 90th perc for hourly wage earners uh so it is truly a path to the middle class yeah no thank you and and and Beyond I mean
▶ 3:00:54in West Texas 5 to 10 years he can be be making well over six figures um it it certainly pays to be in the industry there's no question about it especially in Texas uh Mr OK Conor um I'm not um bashing any of these worlds but uh you talked a number of times on on um several things I just want to ask solar panels so those are 100% dependent able do you mean do they have a 100% capacity Factor no are they 100% do they work
▶ 3:01:24all the time uh like almost everything in the world no they do not work all the time okay when turbines so they work 100% of the time uh same answer they do not work 100% okay and when natural gas flows we 100% Dependable on that no uh natural gas power power plants have outages uh as well the power plants have outages but not so do the and there are offs at the wellhe head their pipeline uh ofo orders so I think the answer is no for probably every technology
▶ 3:01:55okay and what about nuclear energy nuclear has a very high capacity Factor but as we saw in France over the last few years the answer is also no okay but uh to kind of dispute what some people have said today um if we had more pipelines if we had more gas production more oil production would prices be lower or higher yeah they would be lower thank you very much I appreciate it Mr chman I yield back the rest of my time thank you the gentleman yields back the balance of his time the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from
▶ 3:02:25North Dakota for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman and to our uh esteemed guests today thank you for your time and for your patience in uh being here for a long time without a break so my name is Julie fedorak I'm from the state of North Dakota and I'm very honored to be from a state that is home to nature's first energy storage system 700 years of coal um is the third largest producer of oil has the
▶ 3:02:55lowest gas and electric utility rates in the country and also gets 30% of our utility usage from Renewables uh for the last 12 years I've been a utility regulator in my state which um means I oversaw the rates and service of five Monopoly utility providers per mited $15 billion worth of new pipelines wind farms co uh gas uh gas
▶ 3:03:26processing facilities You Name It We we installed it $15 billion worth so I'm very familiar with permitting challenges and um and also worked in the energy markets the one thing that 12 years taught me is that this is all a heck of a lot more complicated than anybody sitting up here or down there realizes and the people we ought to be listening to are the people running the electric grid those people are telling us we have a problem a big problem in
▶ 3:03:56two-thirds of our country is at an elevated risk for not meeting to power demand today that doesn't mean like in 15 years when we have electrification or in you know when we have ai that's today we could be sitting here without lights on uh so we we have to um get real about this issue and and I have a couple questions U Mr oconor um in your written test testimony you call the
▶ 3:04:26inflation reduction Act and the infrastructure investment and jobs act the quote Bedrock of our country's energy dominance agenda I based on what I just told you I don't share that perspective uh you cite a study that estimates between 146 and 308 gaw of renewable capacity will be added to the grid by 20 30 as a result of Ira tax credits um the myo transmission region which I'm intimately familiar with and
▶ 3:04:56serves most my state is expected to see a net 50 gwatt increase in installed capacity by 2042 but a net 30 gwatt decrease in accredited capacity in your work are you focusing on accredited capacity or installed capacity and what should we be focusing ing on uh well first first of all thank you for the question and of course I was going to get a question like that from the former head of nuk so it is a a pleasure to to speak with you here today
▶ 3:05:27um I the reference the reference study which I think was from rodium I believe was uh just net capacity not accredited I didn't apply elcc values and derive what percent of the the capacity would be based on elcc or anything like that do you think people generally understand the difference when you talk about gigawatts of capacity coming online whether it's installed or accredited and what the difference is I I've never mentioned accredited capacity and had anybody other than an energy
▶ 3:05:58industry professional pay attention so I would no does is that part of the problem do you think in why we're facing the challenges today that we are at risk in two-thirds of the country of not having enough accredited capacity to meet demand you know I I don't I think if if the question is not specific speically about distinctions between accredited and just capacity I think people do understand that different uh generation resources have different attributes I think there's been quite a bit of discussion here today about that
▶ 3:06:28and in general um so I would say generally I think it's it's a concept people understand I don't really think it forms the basis for uh concerns we might have in myo or other regions in um in the ira was passed in August of 2022 and we've had C cumulative addition in um of 20.7 gaw since then and cumulative retirements of 42.9 gws so
▶ 3:06:58this is a path that is not sustainable the the the bar graphs for installed capacity versus accredited capacity are going in opposite directions and we simply won't have enough power to meet demand if we don't fix that so thank you for your time here there's 15 seconds if you sure I was just going to note that right the IRA passed in 2022 and obviously it takes several years to develop a lot of projects so I'm not sure that we can look at the first two years after passage of the bill as reflective of long-term capital Investments
▶ 3:07:28that take a few years to interconnect thank you thank you I I yield thanks Mr chairman thank you very much G yields back and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York's 23rd district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman uh a lot has been said today about the need to take a whole of government approach to meet the rising demand of energy uh instead of arbitrarily picking winners and losers um unfortunately my state New York uh has gone in the opposite direction imposing its version of the green New Deal
▶ 3:07:59the climate leadership and Community protection act clcpa to shut down natural gas generation and use uh for years my state has prohibited largescale hydraulic fracturing despite sitting at top my district sits a top the Marcela shell which is estimated to contain two 214 trillion cubic feet of recoverable natural gas uh New York has further weaponized its regulatory apparatus to block much needed infrastructure projects
▶ 3:08:29like the northern access pipeline which would have provided nearly 500 million cubic feet per day of Appalachian gas to the Northeast uh so Mrs everol how can we utilize the president's executive orders to unleash energy in areas of the country like the Northeast that desperately need it and how do we ensure that bad energy policies in one state like New York uh do not stand in the way of energy reliability for the rest of the country Congressman thank you very much for your
▶ 3:08:59question and I think that the contrast in uh State energy policy in particular um it is really not as Stark as could be between what you see in in Dr Joyce's District versus across the border in New York Pennsylvania uh enjoys the benefits of having a pro-energy um State and a pro-energy environment New York is the exact opposite um what we could do is we could build pipelines into the state of New York bringing uh that gas to the market um Energy prices electricity
▶ 3:09:29in particular are 42% higher than the national average in the state of New York um and it it really doesn't make any sense in fact it's also um impacting the environment because we're having to get that energy from other sources uh that are higher emitting and so we need to get back to our principles here which is a diversified source of energy is better for American consumers and I would just continue to point out that America's oil and natural gas industry stand ready to be part of these Solutions well
▶ 3:09:59thank you very much Miss everol and uh Mr Arnold with several States like New York and localities like Denver attempting to ban natural gas use what impact does this have on jobs in this sector what trickle down effect does this have on housing affordability and other issues that are front of mine for Americans right right now thank you for the the question uh the very simple answer is anytime you take project opportunities uh off the table then you lose the jobs that those projects
▶ 3:10:29provide in our local 110 of our members do nothing but Gas Distribution work all day every day whether that be distribution pipeline work whether that be gas meter replacement gas meter bump out uh that is their job and and if you remove uh the ability for utility provide that gas we lose all those jobs and all the economic benefit they provide thank you uh and finally I'd like to note recent reports I've been hearing about a data center project in Upstate New York
▶ 3:11:00that appears to have been held up by my State's Regulatory Agencies I'd uh like to note that the environmental activists across the country have already begun scapegoating new energy intensive technology like Ai and artificial intelligence is standing in the way of their Green New Deal agendas so Mr maau and M do the opponents have it wrong can we develop energy infrastructure and do so in a way that meets sustainability goals but also the needs of energy intensive Industries like Ai and can we do it competitively
▶ 3:11:30if we have the right regulatory framework absolutely uh Mr Langworthy thank you for the question yes they do have it wrong uh because we can walk in chew gum at the same time we can reduce emissions while expanding our economic base uh and expanding the tax base quite frankly uh you know one of the frustrating Parts is uh this is a direct assault on interstate commerce there's a real question whether or not frankly New York can prohibit Interstate transportation of Commodities to other states um it is uh you know it's the tail
▶ 3:12:00wagging the dog thank you any thoughts Miss everol look I I would argue that that um developing Ai and other types of Technologies in this country is a geopolitical and strategic Advantage we've seen the headlines we've seen the market reaction of some of the uh some of the announcements from the Chinese America should own AI America should lead it creates jobs and the American Energy industry will be there to support the load growth required to meet that technology thank you very much for all of your thoughtful testimony
▶ 3:12:31I look forward to working with my colleagues here on the Energy and Commerce Committee to achieve these goals and I thank the witnesses for their time today and with that I yield back Mr chairman gentlemen yields back the balance of this time the chair now recognizes the gentleman of South Carolina's 7eventh district for five minutes for questions thank you Mr chairman thank you for our Witnesses for being here we are at the end of a long day uh I think uh Dr Joyce will wrap it up so we're kind of the cleanup committee doc uh but that's okay um Miss everol in what ways did the Biden
▶ 3:13:01Administration weaponize you talked about you used the term weaponization what in what ways did they weaponize our government against energy producers yeah you know unfortunately we saw in the last Administration uh that there was an all of all of government approach to really uh favor certain forms of energy but disfavor others and I think what we've what we've all discussed today on a bipartisan basis is that what we really need is all of the above we have S we have such increasing demand
▶ 3:13:31um not only for the from the technological growth but the the fact of the matter is just in the next couple of decades we're going to add two billion people to this planet I'd also note that there are 2 uh 750 million people in this world that live in energy po uh poverty and it doesn't have to be that way in your in the document you submitted api's recommendations uh they referenced the Biden AA Nea rules uh what were those and how did they impact the industry I think this is an example of where um the uh Congressional intent was really not followed through
▶ 3:14:01in the in the regulation and I think we need to go back and we need to as part of fundamental permitting reform we really need to revise the NEPA statute so they can't be weaponized in the courts but they rather are a check to ensure that these projects regardless of the type of energy um meet High environmental standards but at some point when we get through that they've got to be G given the green light and we got to get shovels in the ground it helps the 11 million men and women who work in around this industry but it also helps the American Consumer thank you Mr Macau
▶ 3:14:32the B Administration paused LG exports that canel the Keystone XL pipeline they canceled thousands of Acres of oil leases did actions like these harm our energy production they absolutely do we've heard a lot about the uncertainty and U temporary pauses are more moratoriums that have been in effect for just a couple of days um you know when you uh when you get disruptors you're going to get disruption you're going to get chaos and then it's going to level out pretty quickly um that's very different from what we were talking about during the
▶ 3:15:02B Administration that the LG export pause was really a deao ban we all know that right the Keystone Pipeline was studied to death it took twice as long as it took America to win World War II yet we couldn't figure out whether it was in the National interest or not uh you know you know let's be honest if people are against pipelines and fine they're against pipelines but uh want to talk about using lovers of government to uh for politics I think we have good examples that's prime example of that now similarly
▶ 3:15:32president Trump uh in his early days uh did an executive order that streamlined the federal procedures for per uh permitting and construction of Interstate energy transportation did that help will that help and Boost energy production in this country well it it can help I think with the caveat being that President George W bush put in an executive order to facilitate the crossborder construction of infrastructure facilities and that was what was used to hold up the Keystone Pipeline instead of what it was intended to do
▶ 3:16:03which was to streamline and accelerate the process thank you Mr Mr Arnold go to you you you and your testimony said that uh the process I'm going to paraphrase briefly for time said coal firep plants the permitting takes months while in the United United States it takes several years however it is clear that we must move much faster on permitting and reduce the ability of Fringe groups to leverage seemingly endless choke points to punish companies for undertaking projects have you sir seen this in Colorado in your industry well thank you for the question
▶ 3:16:33uh yes we have seen projects unfortunately you know run into a lot of uncertainty and and typically when that's happened you know the chances of being realized and our ability to actually have Pipe Fitters go on site they not actually working right I mean that's kind of the the the challenge at least in your industry is that when these challenges occur you're not actually working your guys men and women are not working Mr mown briefly to you uh who are these people that gum up and who funds these individuals that gum up the permitting process well you know
▶ 3:17:03we have a couple different um different truths in our country one is uh if you don't like a particular kind of energy product and you can't keep it in the ground right keep it in the ground was the the modality for many years then you move to the infrastructure and you try to attack the infrastructure during um North Dakota access um U speaking of North Dakota we saw people from all over the country showing up there flying in using other resources I'm not exactly sure who is funding this um
▶ 3:17:33but it's usually not the aggrieved party that's at least on the paper of the permit challenge right it's not somebody else is funding this is that it's not the local it's not the local opponents it's much larger and we would talk about uh well I see my time is out I I'll I'll probably submit questions to you on on how we go about specific actions on reforming the permitting process but thank you guys uh with that Mr chairman I yield back thank you very much the gentleman time has expired and yields back the chair now recognizes the vice chair of the full committee the gentleman from
▶ 3:18:04Pennsylvania for five minutes for questions thank you chairman L the title of this hearing powering America's future unleashing American Energy could not be more appropriate for the first hearing of the energy subcommittee we are now living in the new golden age of America where American energy production can finally reach the possibilities that we have so often discussed in this committee with this gross in production and by unlocking the energy sources
▶ 3:18:34that are under the feet of my constituents we can provide affordable energy to Americans and cut the unbearable inflation that American families continue to endure we can't can continue to have a large and robust chemical industry so that we have products that we need in the 21st century we can expand well-paying highly skilled jobs in the energy sector so that Americans have great Economic Opportunity we can ensure
▶ 3:19:04that our country has the power to Prevail in the emerging competition in artificial intelligence and finally we can become Not Just Energy independent but energy dominant on the global stage by providing reliable and cleaner energy to our allies and stifle America's enemies under President Trump's strong leadership when we talk about unleashing American Energy we have to take an overview this
▶ 3:19:35includes yes drill baby drill and it also includes build baby build we have to have the infrastructure to transport and to refine the energy that is produced right here in America and get that energy to Market miss everol my constituents are facing an effort to limit their choice of Vehicles California has tried to abuse its waiver process in the Clean Air Act to Institute a ban on internal combustion engines
▶ 3:20:05so that 40% of Americans will ultimately be affected by their choice in the automobile Market why is it that the California acc2 waiver issue is a problem for all of America uh this is a huge problem not only uh does what California chooses and how it impacts consumers in California but there's also more than a dozen states that follow the lead of California um and this is bad for American consumers I'm not sure why the state of California
▶ 3:20:36gets to be the de facto uh regulatory body U for so many states in this country those those uh citizens didn't get to vote for the elected uh um uh individuals in in the state of California uh and what we saw in the last election uh was a full and complete rejection of these heavy-handed mandates uh the American Consumer should be able to choose we support free markets in this country and this should not be an exception to that rule so how significant
▶ 3:21:06is it Miss everol that action by the EPA constitutes a role in the Biden administration's EPA and the GAO they have attempted to declare that the epa's granting of a waiver to be an ad dictator order to prevent the use of the Congressional review act in this specific situation do you agree that the Biden Administration should have submitted to the action to Congress and that it is here in Congress and in Congress alone
▶ 3:21:36that the power to decide whether the EPA action is a rule should be subject to resolution or of disapproval absolutely this is certainly the jurisdiction of the Congress and the courts are currently U disputing the the um the efficacy of the rule under the prior Administration we do appreciate however president Trump's uh executive order on day one um to roll back those so-called EV mandates and and I agree I look forward to working with our new EPA administrator Lee
▶ 3:22:07zeldon to overturn this waiver Mr mowan if the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania were a country we would have one of the largest proven natural gas reserves in the entire world yet we run into issues getting this energy to market the lack of pipeline construction in the Northeast and the lack of significant LG export facilities restrict natural gas production how would building the proper infrastructure Unleash the Power of Pennsylvania
▶ 3:22:37unleash the energy sources that are under the feet of my constituents yes absolutely I mean you know energy is that critical component to our our country to the economy next to raw materials and the cost of Labor it is the winner or loser when it comes to uh creating an economy to creating industry we need Pennsylvania's gas we need it throughout the country and it needs to be made available for export that requires
▶ 3:23:07additional infrastructure it requires pipelines and as I mentioned earlier we have some states that want to thwart prohibit stop halt the lawful transportation of Commodities in this case natural gas and um that needs to be stopped thank you for your comments Mr chairman again thank you for allowing me to wave on and I yield the balance of my time the gentlemen's time has expired and the chair seeing no other members wishing to ask
▶ 3:23:38questions on behalf of all the members of the subcommittee we want to thank all of our Witnesses for appearing today members may have additional written questions for you all and members are advised they have 10 business days to submit additional questions for the record and I ask that the witnesses to submit their responses within 10 business days upon a receipt of the questions I ask unanimous consent to insert into the record the documents included on the staff hearing documents list
▶ 3:24:08without objection the that will be the order and without objection the subcommittee is adjourned for