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▶ 0:12:07this hearing of the subcommittee on delivering on government efficiency will come to order welcome everyone without objection the chair May declare a recess at any time also for today's hearing chairman comr and ranking member Connelly will each be recognized for one minute after me and the ranking member per provide our opening statements I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement good morning today
▶ 0:12:37we begin the first hearing on the oversight subcommittee on Doge this committee will be laser focused on bringing Full transparency to waste Fraud and Abuse within the federal government and presenting the plans to fix the tremendous problems we expose we as a country are 36 trillion in debt that is such a stunning amount of money it's absolutely staggering to even comprehend
▶ 0:13:08how we as a people we as a country found ourselves here this is not a Democrat problem this is not a republican problem this is an American problem to make it clear for everyone not only are we $36 trillion in debt but the com the compounding interests on our debt is also growing out of control even if we decided to defund the entire federal government we cannot Escape
▶ 0:13:38our debt and the compounding interests owed on our debt which grows bigger and bigger every year in 2025 interest payments are projected to be $952 billion which is more than our entire military budget in 2026 it will be $1 trillion and by 2035 $1.8 trillion over the next decade total interest payments are projected to be $
▶ 0:14:10trillion these interest payments don't serve a single American they don't build a bridge a road provide disaster relief or fund a single part of the Behemoth that is the federal government these interest payments pay our masters who own our debt and the American people are in debt slavery to everyone who owns our debt our crippling national debt and massively growing interest on our debt will destroy us
▶ 0:14:40not destroy one political party or the other it will destroy all of us together it drives inflation making life unaffordable for Americans struggling to financially survive it is crippling small businesses struggling to be successful our massively growing debt and interest are the chains and shackles harnessed to every American and their children and every generation to come but first let us be brutally
▶ 0:15:11honest about how this massive debt came to be in the first place it came from Congress and from elected presidential administrations and I believe enslaving our nation in debt is one of the biggest betrayals against the American people by its own elected government this American the American people's anger over this betrayal is what gave birth to the concept of Doge the department of
▶ 0:15:41efficiency in fact Doge became a major part of President Trump's campaign and led to his overwhelming victory in November every day Americans go to work they run businesses they have to earn their paycheck no one guarantees it and they don't do a good job they get fired they also have to pay their bills credit card debts balance their checkbooks and scrap and save every penny they can in order to plan for that
▶ 0:16:11rainy day and hopefully retirement one day private businesses only survive on hard-earned income by serving their customers so well that their customers pay them for the services and products they consume if that business fails its employees lose their jobs and paychecks and the owners lose their business and everything they risked along with it many go bankrupt in this process and lose everything no one bails
▶ 0:16:42them out they only Survive by excellent customer service and Smart Financial Management this is the real world that most Americans live work and survive in every day this is the pursuit of happiness and this is how you pursue the American dream however the federal government government employees and unelected bureaucrats do not live by the same rules as the Great American people and private businesses the federal government's
▶ 0:17:12income is the American people's hard-earned tax dollars their literal Blood Sweat and Tears and taxes are collected by law at gunpoint don't pay your taxes and you go to jail the Federal government does not have to provide excellent customer service to earn its income it takes your money whether you like it or not and federal employees receive their paycheck no matter what
▶ 0:17:42whether veterans receive their benefits or not whether your mail shows up or not and whether your tax dollars are used to help Americans in need or sent to foreign countries for foreign people for foreign causes no matter M how bad the federal government fails the American people it still takes your money it still pays its own federal employees and it never ever goes out of business there are no consequences
▶ 0:18:13for bad customer service total failure and for enslaving the American people against their will and the ever growing and future all consuming national debt Congress has a dismal approval rating that ranges between 12 and 20% I don't blame the American people one bit for their sentiment and disgust the American people will be watching this committee and how we tackle one of the biggest problems of
▶ 0:18:43our time while we are a committee made up of the opposite far-reaching corners of Congress we were each elected to serve and represent the American people and how their hard-earned tax dollars are spent we as Republicans and Democrats can still hold tightly to our beliefs but we are going to have to let go of funding them in order to save our sinking ship this is not a time for political theater
▶ 0:19:13and partisan attacks the American people are watching the legislative branch can't sit on the sidelines in this subcommittee we will fight the war on waste shoulder-to-shoulder with President Trump Elon musk and the Doge team this week we turn our attention to improper payments by the federal government including in Medicaid and Medicare I'm looking forward to what we find out and how to solve this crisis
▶ 0:19:44I nail y yield to the ranking member Miss stanbury for her opening statement all right well good morning everyone thank you madam chair and welcome to the very first subcommittee on government efficiency as was said this committee is tasked under the oversight committee with ensuring that the government and the vital services that it provides from Health Care to National Security actually work for the American people and this is certainly a
▶ 0:20:14topic that we have worked on for many many years here in the oversight committee and which I personally have worked on as a former civil servant who worked at the Office of Management and budget and in fact for anyone who has ever worked on these issues you know that there is ample ground for bipartisan work to make the government work better for the American people and to ensure that it operates in a more efficient manner and in fact uh all of us here on the Democratic side are ready to roll up our
▶ 0:20:44sleeves and to get to work and just last week I had the opportunity to sit down with the chairwoman and to discuss these very issues and opportunities to work across the aisle and like the chairwoman who shared some of her background with with me I grew up in a working family I grew up working for small mom and popop family businesses and understand the necessity of balancing the books making sure we can deliver and fiscal responsibility and that's why today's hearing is focused
▶ 0:21:14on making sure that the federal government is doing what it's supposed to and digging into the more than 236 billion in improper payments that we see going out the door every single year and we need to get to the bottom of that and we need to make sure that we're putting into place rigorous oversight and controls to prevent Fraud and Abuse and of course to go after Bad actors and that is why myself and the oversight ranking member Connelly and other
▶ 0:21:44Democratic members of the committee sent a set of bipartisan ideas that we'd like to work on together that would root out wayte Fraud and Abuse and modernize and streamline how our agencies deliver vital programs for the American people these are programs that are important for our seniors and our families and Healthcare and the education system and we need bipartisan solutions to get across the finish line and we've been trying over the last several years to get these ideas out of this committee
▶ 0:22:15but unfortunately the committee's priorities have been elsewhere under the current major majority so I hope we can fix that this Congress but we can't just sit here today and pretend like everything is normal Al and that this is just another hearing on government efficiency I mean all you have to do is look across this room and see that it is not a normal hearing because while we're sitting here Donald Trump and Elon Musk are recklessly and illegally dismantling the federal government
▶ 0:22:45shuttering federal agencies firing federal workers withholding funds vital to the safety and well-being of our communities and hacking our sensitive Data Systems in fact while we were here discussing government waste on the house floor yesterday Elon Musk was standing behind the Resolute desk in the Oval Office with the president and the ad Administration was making emergency court appeals to try to unlock his team's access to the treasury payment system which
▶ 0:23:16they claim they are using to study improper payments which is the topic of this hearing but here's the thing the treasury payment system which includes Social Security information and bank accounts for millions of Americans and data that's critical to National Security and the operation of the US government and payments that go out the door annually equal to almost a fifth of the US economy is not where the payment decisions are made because that happens inside
▶ 0:23:46the agencies that are currently being dismantled and the people who actually investigate waste Fraud and Abuse at these agencies are the inspector generals who Donald Trump fired his his first week in office in a midnight Massacre so we have to ask ourselves what is really going on here why did Republicans block Elon Musk from appearing before this very committee last week why is the administration so eager to allow Elon Musk and his hackers
▶ 0:24:16to have access to proprietary and private information in the treasury Payment Systems why are our colleagues across the aisle shielding them as they are clearly breaking the law and why is the vice president trying to rewrite the US Constitution by tweet and undermine Judiciary so obviously we're in the oversight committee and we have a lot of questions and so do the American people especially while while our colleagues across
▶ 0:24:47the aisle are trying to scoop up the savings from the dismantling of these agencies to pay for the largest permanent tax break in American history for billionaires and the folks that they're helping on their side of the aisle so let me close by saying this directly to Mr Elon Musk we are well aware that you are eager to engage with members of Congress on social media but we're not here to play
▶ 0:25:17if you have serious desire to engage in democracy and transparency we welcome you to the oversight committee come and testify in front of the American American people under oath because we want to know what you're up to so if you're interested in talking to us then please join us here in the people's house in the House of Representatives and with that I yield back the gentle lady yields uh president Trump signed an executive
▶ 0:25:47order on his first day in office called establishing and implementing the president's Department of government efficiency the EO simply renamed an office in the White House that was actually established by President Obama in 2014 called the US digital service president Trump can have Elon Musk into his Oval Office anytime he likes I now recognize the chairman of the oversite committee chairman James comr
▶ 0:26:17well thank you chairwoman green for holding today's hearing to launch a war on waste president Trump won an electoral Landslide with a clear mandate from the American people to eliminate Washington waste and stop the theft of American tax dollars and he is delivering on his promise president Trump has empowered Elon Musk and Doge to conduct a government-wide audit to identify solutions to curb waste and protect tax dollars that's exactly what the mission of
▶ 0:26:48this committee is supposed to be and I'm glad that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have found a a new found interest in waste Fraud and Abuse with a staggering 37 trillion Dollar in national debt we have no time to lose a key place to start is improper payments since 2003 the government has lost $2.7 trillion doar because of improper payments fraudsters organized criminals hostile foreign actors and even government employees have
▶ 0:27:18siphoned money away from those who truly qualify for assistance for years Republicans and Democrats on the oversight committee have condemned this waste but now that Doge is taking real action Democrats are choosing to defend the bureaucracy and Status Quo instead of standing up for the American people I want to thank chairwoman green for holding this very important hearing not only to expose the problems but to find Solutions we stand with President Trump and Doge in the fight to end waste
▶ 0:27:48Fraud and Abuse in Washington with that I yield back to subcommittee chairwoman green and congratulations again chairwoman on holding this first hearing of the Doge subcommittee thank you Mr chairman the gentleman yields back I now recognize the ranking member on oversight Mr Connelly excuse me thank you madam chair and thank you for having this first hearing on Doge uh you know improper payments is not a new
▶ 0:28:18subject uh I remember joining Steve Lynch uh and then Todd Platz Republican member from Pennsylvania uh in my freshman year talking about improper payments at that time improper payments were in the range of 35 billion a year they're now in the range of 280 billion doar a year and times 10 we could cut almost $3 trillion from the debt if we addressed improper payments uh in a deliberative way which GAO has called for
▶ 0:28:48in the high-risk category for years we can also secondly enforce the tax code it's estimated that at least a half a trillion dollars a year is left on the table uncollected but owed because of lack of resources in the IRS again times 10 is5 trillion doar over a decade uh and finally we can modernize Federal it systems which we' Champion for years on this committee uh we know that Legacy Legacy systems alone
▶ 0:29:19could save hundreds of millions of dollars a year in operating a maintenance cost so if we want to be serious about it let's be serious about it but the way not to do it is to fire the people charged with the remit of waste Fraud and Abuse namely inspector's General president Trump has already now fired 19 including most recently the usaid Inspector General who dared to warn that we could lose a half a billion dollars of food Aid uh because it's
▶ 0:29:49in warehouses not being moved because of the funding freeze that was imposed in Aid that's a cost we need to avoid uh and for doing his job that IG was fired uh if we want to be serious we've got to have objective neutral inspector's General who are monitoring government waste Fraud and Abuse and expenditures and I think you would find Democrats more than willing Partners in that kind of Enterprise if we're going to be serious but a wrecking crew
▶ 0:30:20a wrecking crane a wrecking ball is not going to do it and we're not going to support that approach to waste Fraud and Abuse in the federal government I yield back thank you the gentleman yields the president of the United States has the prerogative to fire anyone that has overseen $36 trillion in debt enslaving the American people and rightfully so I'm pleased to welcome today's expert panel of witnesses who each bring unique experience and expertise that will be valuable to today to
▶ 0:30:50today's discussion I'd first like to welcome Mr Haywood talve the chief executive officer for government at Lexus Nexus Risk Solutions Inc his commitment to customers needs allows Lexus Nexus to develop Market leading solutions that have enabled customers to stop fraud waste and abuse next we have Mr Stuart witson the senior director of federal Affairs at the foundation of accountability
▶ 0:31:20Stuart was previously a special agent in the FBI a US Army veteran and now spends his time time at fga advocating to improve welfare the workforce and other policy next we have Miss Don Roy a certified welfare fraud investigator in the state of Wyoming and director for the United Council of Welfare fraud she advocates for investigating and preventing fraud of government benefits and has done so over the
▶ 0:31:51past 16 years finally we have Mr Dylan hler got it the director of government Affairs at the project on government oversight Dylan leads advocacy efforts and policy reforms to a wide range of good governance I thank each of our Witnesses for being here today and I look forward to your testimony pursuant to committee rule 9g the witnesses will please stand and raise their right
▶ 0:32:24hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do let the record show that the witness has answered in the affirmative thank you you may take a seat we appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statement and it will appear in full in the hearing record
▶ 0:32:54please limit your oral statement to 5 minutes as a reminder please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on and the members can hear you when you begin to speak the light in front of you will turn green after 4 minutes the light will turn yellow when the red light comes on your five minutes have expired and we would ask that you please wrap up I now recognize Mr talve for his opening statement chairwoman green
▶ 0:33:24ranking member stanbury and distinguished members of the committee for over a decade a silent War has been waged against American taxpayers not with bombs or guns but with data and Technology outdated government systems permit criminals to access unlimited sums of money during the pandemic they stole $1 trillion dollar 70% of those dollars went overseas shockingly it's just not criminals exploiting the system it's the flawed
▶ 0:33:54system itself acting as the if left unchecked the US government will continue to lead the world in funding criminals this is a data and Technology problem and it Demands a datadriven response criminal syndicates have turned benefit programs into their personal ATM machines exploiting those in need who wait months for benefits that may never come these ruthless Crooks use our money to fund child trafficking disperse drugs in our communities
▶ 0:34:25and terrorism for years criminal networks have stolen personal information from the public and private sector they exploit real identities to manipulate Antiquated government Systems siphoning off billions and taxpayers hard-earned money we continue to pay benefits to deceased and incarcerated individuals direct money to Bad actors flagged on the do not pay list and Overlook duplicate Social Security numbers by not following best practices during the pandemic
▶ 0:34:55a simple cross check of PPP loan recipients against IRS records would have exposed massive fraud and prevented payments to transnational criminals who sold their quote unquote sauce on the dark web to stop this we must reclaim control of our systems not just from the criminal syndicates but the flaw systems enabling them smarter technology data and identity verification are not optional they are Necessities to protect taxpayers and ensure Aid reaches
▶ 0:35:26those who truly need it now the use of AI is fundamentally changing Society but in the hands of criminals it has become a weapon law Breakers are now using it to supercharge their award on taxpayers they use AI to create fake identity documents that pass verifications Bots flood portals with thousands of fraudulent claims per second in deep fakes that mimic real applicants bypass the outdated nist 863 standards from
▶ 0:35:562017 honest and deserving people seeking access to government benefits suffer through endless application forms that are nearly impossible to navigate but criminals from Russia China and Romania gain access with ease the private sector has fraud rates below 3% meanwhile the public sector operates at a 20% fraud rate the solution is clear it's already used every day to protect consumers
▶ 0:36:26you seiously interact with your bank through an app that verifies your identity in milliseconds there's no excuse for the government to lag if we do the following number one Implement identity verification on the front end criminals should never receive a dime eliminate self-certification no more honor System for billion doll programs and continuous auditing keep verifying because criminals never stop adapting pay and Chase does not work of the $250
▶ 0:36:57billion stolen in pandemic unemployment fraud less than 5 billion has been recovered the idea in government that you cannot have speed insecurity is fiction I urge Congress to consider making the following legislative changes number one update the 1974 Privacy Act to allow for data sharing and matching number two fund a budget for fraud prevention in each appropriation Bill the USDA spends 12 12th of 1% on fraud prevention
▶ 0:37:27mandate that individuals caught stealing from entitlement programs pay Hefty fines and are removed from the program permanently and finally eliminate broad-based categorical eligibility this committee has a choice continue losing this war against criminal cartels in nation states or fight back and save $1 trillion doll annually fraud pre prevention is not benefit prevention it's the key to ensuring that every dollar reaches those who truly need it hardworking americ Americans
▶ 0:37:57rely on these programs not just to survive but to build better lives for their families when criminals exploit the system they just don't steal money they steal opportunities stopping fraud isn't about denying benefits it's about protecting them this crime has two victims the first are the taxpayers and the second are those seeking benefits the frosters cartels and criminal syndicates are watching this hearing I'm sure of it it's time to show that
▶ 0:38:28America will not fund its own destruction thank you and I look forward to your questions thank you Mr Talco I now recognize Miss Royal for her statement good morning chairwoman green ranking member stanbury and committee members my name is Don Royal I'm a certified welfare fraud investigator two term past president
▶ 0:38:58and a current director of the United Council on welfare fraud the United Council on welfare fraud is a national professional organization dedicated to protecting Integrity in our nation's Public Assistance programs we are the only National Organization singularly focused on the detection prevention and prosecution of Welfare fraud for too long agency bureaucrats have pitted citizens access to welfare programs against the Integrity of those programs access versus inte Integrity should never be an
▶ 0:39:28either or dichotomy we can all agree that access to public assistance is crucial America's citizens should not be hungry or deprived of medical care because of their inability to pay however making sure vulnerable citizens have access to these welfare programs should not mean that we simply turn a blind eye to Integrity we do not pursue the prevention detection and prosecution of if we do not pursue the prevention detection and prosecution of fraud taxpayers become the victims as the
▶ 0:39:58welfare programs become slush funds for anyone wanting to supplement their income with SNAP benefits absolve themselves from the financial responsibility of medical bills and using Medicaid to further taxpayer exploitation by taking advantage of cash assistance energy assistance child care and other social welfare programs one example of a welfare fraud is a case that I investigated that was criminally prosecuted last year the applicant mother failed to disclose her children's father as well as his employment
▶ 0:40:29and income on multiple applications she submitted for Medicaid snap and lowincome energy assistance the codefendant father worked a steady job earning a six-figure salary and provided an enviable lifestyle for his family including vacations luxury Vehicles snowmobiles motor homes lavish gifts including one from the wife to the husband which was a $1,200 bottle of bourbon evidence we presented at trial included a candidate registration forms five by the defendant father when he ran
▶ 0:40:59for Town Council and later mayor of the town where he declared he lived at the same address provided by his wife on her Public Assistance programs this was a case of greed but it emphasizes how easy it was for these criminals to make FSE statements on applications in order to receive benefits from multiple programs that they were never eligible for I could spend the rest of my day providing countless examples of how taxpayer funded programs are exploited and the message would be the same investigators continue
▶ 0:41:29to be hamstrung by Antiquated regulations conflicting directives from federal agencies and the lack of access technology sadly investigators have also found themselves at odds with the career bureaucrats who recite watered down facts about fraud in order to Pro promote their political agendas specifically we can look to the career bureaucrats who have historically claimed that the fraud rate in snap is less than 1% the disregard for the value of integrity is evidenced by the less than 1/ 120th
▶ 0:41:59of 1% of the snap budget spent on the prevention detection and prosecution of fraud as part of Medicaid unwinding debacle the bureaucrats specifically directed states that they and I quote cannot recover or recoup the cost of services from a beneficiary even if they have been found after an administrative hearing or criminal proceeding to have committed Medicaid beneficiary fraud or abuse end quote sadly it is is already apparent that career bureaucrats are not being
▶ 0:42:29totally transparent as they attempt to protect spending and broken programs we fail to understand how mitigating the rampant fraud in Medicaid snap and other welfare programs stands up or strengthens the welfare programs fact is the opposite is true ignoring fraud and gaslighting fraud statistics erodes the very foundations of the programs that are essential to their future viability there are this there are things this committee can do to help the investigators fighting the war on fraud number one
▶ 0:42:59eliminate self-attestation in the application process for all programs number two funding for technology that includes identity verification tools that will help prevent fraud the current pay and chase model is not sustainable number three immediately implement the national accuracy Clearing House The Knack that will provide data to states to prevent duplicate participation in all of the social welfare programs and four all at direct funding with mandates restricting the use of
▶ 0:43:29the funding to the prevention detection and prosecution of fraud in closing we're at a Crossroads those of us who have firsthand knowledge of the degree in which Public Welfare programs are being attacked know that reform is absolutely necessary reform to the recipient application process the billing process in Medicaid and how SNAP benefits are processed and how providers and retailers are authorized we thank you for the opportunity for you cof to P participate in this hearing we feel that the
▶ 0:43:59investigators who are on the front lines fighting the daily battle against the war on fraud need to be at the table and participating in the development of action plans that will make a difference in protecting the programs and defending taxpayers thank you Miss Royal I now recognize Mr witson for his opening statement chairwoman green ranking member stanbury members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify
▶ 0:44:30today on the campaign Trail president Trump promised to take on the bloated bureaucracy and DC rebuild trust in the doj and the FBI crack down on waste Fraud and Abuse and restore common sense and on day one he started delivering on those promises with a wave of executive orders in the official launch of Doge which he of course tasked Elon must to lead already Doge efforts have brought to the Public's attention countless examples of of wasteful spending including $59
▶ 0:45:01million paid to luxury hotels in New York to house a legal immigrants 1.5 million to advance Dei in Serbia's $32,000 for a transgender comic book in Peru the list goes on but rather than applauding the work of Doge the left has launched a coordinated campaign to try to demonize Mr musk with the hope of Shifting Focus away from the disastrous waste Fraud and Abuse that occurred on Biden's watch
▶ 0:45:31but guess what it's not working because no matter what political party people hail from the vast majority of Americans agree that $10 million worth of food funnel to Al-Qaeda was probably not the best use of taxpayer money but there's another source a key source of wasteful spending that Doge and the subcommittee should set their sites on next and that's Medicaid waste and fraud while initially meant as a program for the truly need Medicaid is bloated into a massive welfare program for millions of able-bodied
▶ 0:46:01adults lured into the Trap of government dependency and as Medicaid has grown so too has mismanagement today more than1 in5 spent on Medicaid is improper and Medicaid alone fraud and mismanagement is on track to cost us taxpayers get this more than $1 trillion dollar over the next 10 years when it comes to the problem of improper payments the Medicaid Program is the biggest culprit and culprit encompassing nearly onethird of all federal improper payments and more than 80%
▶ 0:46:31of Medicaid improper payments are due to one thing eligibility errors if Congress wants to help president Trump address wasteful spending then targeting eligibility errors in Medicaid should be one of your top priorities bottom line to address this challenge Congress can take three decisive actions so first Congress can strengthen the Medicaid Program through legislative action that would include repealing Biden's disastrous Medicaid streamlining rule which ties the hands of states trying to remove ineligible enroles you can and should do
▶ 0:47:01this through reconciliation and it will produce 164 billion in savings if you do you can also strengthen verification requirements to ensure only eligible individuals receive benefits and ensure a nationwide Knack is implemented without delay second thing Congress can do is help to help president Trump's Doge effort by ensuring that entrenched partisan bureaucrats don't stand in the way of Reform so musk and his doge team already found hundreds of billions of dollars funneled into wasteful fraudulent and Flatout insane
▶ 0:47:32projects but they've only scratched the surface if this much fraud has been exposed in just a few weeks imagine what else is buried under layers of red tape and government excuses but guess what all of these insane projects have one thing in common they were all approved and funded by unelected bureaucrats and these and other entrenched bureaucrats are already pledging to fight against President Trump's efforts to improve government accountability and efficiency Personnel is policy and without
▶ 0:48:02competent staff to Faithfully execute the president's agenda the Doge project will fail and this is where Congress can help Congress can support the president in carrying out his doge effort by making all executive branch employees at will codifying the president's authority to fire unproductive or insubordinate agency employees as needed at the same time Congress can grant the president authority to permanently eliminate vac positions and consolidate non-essential positions across agencies and departments to help promote
▶ 0:48:32efficiency and put the right people in the right seat the third thing Congress can make president Trump's Doge cost cutting and deregulatory reforms permanent by passing The reigns act and so there's only one big problem with the Doge effort most of its work can be undone by a future president with a stroke of a pen to make president Trump's Doge reforms permanent Congress must ask and the best way to do this is to pass the Reigns act this would return article one budgetary
▶ 0:49:03power of the purse to Congress while promoting deregulation it would also help lock in the Doge reforms and cement president Trump's Legacy as the most consequential deregulatory and cost cutting president in US history the American people are watching it's time for Congress to act thank you and I look forward to your questions thank you Mr witson I now now recognize Mr hler got it for his opening statement
▶ 0:49:33thank you chairwoman green ranking member stanbury and members of the subcommittee my name is Dylan hler godet and I'm the director of government Affairs at the project on government oversight or Pogo I appreciate the opportunity to be with you here today to talk about the critical issue of bringing more accountability and transparency to federal spending including rooting out waste Fraud and Abuse since our founding in 1981 Pogo has been focused on promoting more accountability and rooting out wasteful spending and promoting efficiency
▶ 0:50:04especially at the Department of Defense we have a long and wellestablished track record on these issues and we take a back when it comes to promoting a better and more Effective Government which necessarily includes a federal government that is a good and responsible Steward of taxpayer dollars let's take a moment to pause here to talk a little bit about terms that we're going to hear a lot today and the difference between them waste is different from fraud fraud is different from abuse and abuse is different from both when we talk about improper payments they are
▶ 0:50:34a subset of those other three categories but that doesn't tell us the whole picture either sometimes improper payments are a function of bad recordkeeping sometimes they are a function of outdated Information Technology systems Sometimes they come about through human error and sometimes they come about through negligence there are a variety of reasons why improper happen it just simply is not the case that improper payments are only a function of bad people doing bad things with bad intent that doesn't mean we shouldn't
▶ 0:51:04focus on trying to mitigate improper payments and that certainly doesn't mean that the American people should not be concerned with how their tax dollars are used the good news is is that there are some time tested Solutions and tools to help mitigate these problems for example when we think about the independence of General we're talking about a resource that is extraordinarily valuable to the American people in fiscal year 2023 alone Inspector General identified over 93 billion dollars
▶ 0:51:35worth of potential savings to taxpayers whistleblowers are also an incredible resource to the taxpayer Through The irs's Whistleblower program alone billions of dollars have been recouped from tax cheats since the Inception of that program in 2007 whistleblowers have also played an instrumental role in helping the Department of Justice pursue false claims Act cases that have resulted in billions of dollars in reclaims settlement cost it seem to me that
▶ 0:52:05if an administration were serious about wanting to root out waste Fraud and Abuse they would support and resource whistleblowers and Inspector General they would not demonize them and they would certainly not fire them on mos in a unlawful Purge there are other reforms we can think about too reforms that are more technical but just as is important key statutes such as the federal funding accountability and transparency act the data act and critical platforms like usaspending.gov
▶ 0:52:35were really were really important improvements and Innovations when they came about but they are in need of overhaul and reform currently the status quo is that we have an extraordinarily hard time tracking federal dollars from end to end this is due in large part to a broken chain of data collection of reporting information and the ability to Monitor and track in real time what is happening with federal dollars this informational black hole is where a lot of impropriety
▶ 0:53:06happens it's where waste Fraud and Abuse live and yes this is where improper payments often happen but more importantly we also don't have a good clear and consistent way of understanding what is happening with tax dollars at the end point what is the impact that we're having what is the return on investment that we're having we now have an annual budget of close to7 trillion a year we can't say with any degreee of clarity and consistency what we're getting for all of that money
▶ 0:53:36we have some more good news though there are bipartisan efforts and there have been for years to try and clean up this situation we at Pogo have had the privilege and pleasure of working on some of those initiatives we were a part of of the federal taxpayers right to no act being passed into law just a couple of years ago which created for the very first time a program inventory of all the programmed in the federal government and that would be available to the public we have worked with a member of this very committee the house oversight and accountability committee to introduce a piece of legislation
▶ 0:54:06that would bring more transparency to federal reporting we have supported and endorse multiple pieces of legislation that take direct aim at the improper payments issue we also have additional ideas that don't yet have Congressional Champions one proposal is to clean up and modernize and standardize the award descriptions that are available in USA spending to make them more useful and relevant we have another proposal to harmonize the amount of data and information we collect between contract spending and non-contract spending
▶ 0:54:36We Stand ready willing and able to work with anybody who wants to work with us on these Common Sense Solutions lastly I want to put in a quick word for congress yeah and specifically I want to the gentleman's time has expired apologies yes I can't see the flashing light that's okay thank you Mr hler got it we we appreciate your testimony I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions I'd like to thank our Witnesses today for your testimonies and the suggestions
▶ 0:55:07that you have brought before this committee I'd also like to thank chairman comr for this opportunity to chair the historic oversight subcommittee on Doge Americans are shocked to learn that $2.7 trillion dollar of their hard-earned tax dollar have been stolen or wasted in improper payments since 2003 you see in the private sector companies can't continue they can't continue to run
▶ 0:55:38if they keep employees that allow waste and abuse with their resources but that has continued for decades here in the federal government Mr talve do private sector companies have a lower rate of improper payments than the federal government yes the fraud rate the um that the criminals are taking advantage of in the public sector is around 20% in the private sector it's around 3% and it's
▶ 0:56:08really because the tools that are used in the private sector aren't used in the public sector front-end identity verification self-certification and then finally making sure that um uh individuals are who they say they are if we start using these tools you will see the fraud rate go down dramatically because for the most part this fraud isn't taking place by real individuals it's individuals whose identities have been stolen
▶ 0:56:38on the dark web they use that information pretending to be somebody else and because of the Antiquated systems processes and Technologies in place in government programs they're able to steal its scale right so Mr telve we would say that private companies that pretty much have to exist on a 20% uh profit rate uh they're not allowed they can't continue to to be successful if they were to allow their customers data to be stolen like that and used by criminals however the federal government who can continue
▶ 0:57:09printing checks and continue an operation never fixes its problems because it can't be forced to go out of business would you agree with that yes or no yes one of the things I noticed during covid was the criminals learned that government was the mark because it never runs out of money and they focus on it at scale and then the likelihood of getting caught is virtually zero I think it's outrageous for Americans to know that their identity can be stolen and then used for child trafficking
▶ 0:57:39drug trafficking and terrorism like you said in your opening statement Miss Royal your testimony states that many programs operate under essentially an honor system in which applicants need not verify their identity income residency or other key eligibility factors you call this a trust everyone uh instead of a trust by verify approach does this mean the federal government and some states are giving out billions of dollars to individuals
▶ 0:58:10without verifying who they are or whether they meet program eligibility requirements yes ma'am that's correct out that's outrageous do do states have enough incentive to prevent fraud and to recover improper payments no in and in fact states are hesitant to spend their State dollars to protect dollars with greater investment in program Integrity efforts yield a positive return for taxpayers yes it could easily be self-funding amazing
▶ 0:58:40Mr witson your testimony states that both the Biden and Obama administrations issued rules and guidance that made it harder for states to verify eligibility for Medicaid you say that repealing Biden's Medicaid streamlining rule would save 64 billion over 10 years because the rule restricts elig eligibility verification that states can perform can you explain why this rule is so costly yeah so the rule does a number of things
▶ 0:59:10but for instance it prohibits States from verifying eligibility more than once a year so for non-disabled folks to just go in and look and say hey are you still eligible for the program it says you are forbidden from doing that any more often than once a year and so obviously people's lives change and so they may become ineligible and so it's designed to keep them on the program another thing it prohibits in-person or phone interviews to verify their identity so people apply for it and then the person on the other end says well I just want to call and make sure this is a real person
▶ 0:59:40not someone in another country or whatever the the rule prohibits that and so there's a number of other Provisions it it also opens a lengthy reconsideration periods and this is where illegal immigrants are able to obtain the benefits and so basically it says once you get you know these benefits you can't interfere with it for a 90-day period or longer and so there's a number of horrible things thank thank so we can't verify if someone is illegal or legal receiving Ben just to correct that yes or no you have to wait at least a state has to wait at least 90 days and actually what we're
▶ 1:00:10seeing is it's LED some states to wait as long as 13 years and so that on the unbelievable my time has expired thank you very much I now recognize Mr Lynch from Massachusetts for five minutes thank thank you very much m M chair first of all let me uh congratulate you and and also miss stanbury on your new positions and uh I want to thank the witnesses for for your testimony we've already heard some some good ideas about how to work together and
▶ 1:00:40uh Mr hetler godet uh I for one would be uh most open to to working with Pogo and and and trying to work on some of the legislative ideas that you have to actually get at some of this uh waste Fraud and Abuse um since this is my first opportunity to speak in this new subcommittee as the representative for the eth congressional district in Massachusetts I want to first of all make clear that my my primary purpose in seeking appointment to this subcommittee
▶ 1:01:11is for the singular and sacred purpose to defend our democracy which I believe is under attack in this country and to uphold my oath to support and defend the Constitution against those who might secretly or openly seek its destruction make no mistake this is a moment for representative democracy this is a test of our resolve in the coming days and weeks we will all get to decide whether we stand with a couple of billionaires
▶ 1:01:41who despite their own Financial successes still Harbor such grievances in their hearts that after all that democracy has provided to them they remain they remain animated by the desire to dismantle this democratic government and to punch down at some of the weakest and most vulnerable in our society two men who clearly understand that the easiest way to incite large numbers of people is to use social media to exploit the dynamic forces
▶ 1:02:11of hatred fear Madame chair if we're going after a waste Fraud and Abuse let's start with abuse abuse of power as of yesterday there were 55 lawsuits under consideration by the federal courts across our nation as a result of Elon musk's and president Trump's unlawful acts many of those lawsuits have already been sustained by the federal district courts and have been R and orders have been rendered to undo those
▶ 1:02:41unlawful acts but this is just the beginning and Congress has an important role to play and I for one look forward to that opportunity this is a moment of great consequence for our country and and for our democracy and I remain grateful to the good people of the E congressional district of Massachusetts who sent me here Mr hetler gardette again happy to join you on some of your Pogo has worked very closely with our IG Community
▶ 1:03:12is that right the inspector generals yeah that's correct Congressman I know your work is is is very much similar to what we ask our inspectors generals to uh to undertake uh I want to ask you uh what what do you think so so in the most recent uh report from the inspector generals and this is the Council of the inspector generals a nonpartisan group uh on integrity and efficiency in government they identified more than 93 billion dollars
▶ 1:03:42in savings so the first thing that President Trump did coming into office was to fire fire 17 agency inspector general what what can you tell us from pogo's standpoint what what does that do to our ability to identify and and root out waste Fraud and Abuse thank you Congressman I would say to put it simply
▶ 1:04:12it completely undermines our ability to root out waste Fraud and Abuse Inspector General exists for essentially one purpose and they were originally created in the immediate aftermath of Watergate and I think you all probably do not need me to give you a history lesson at all and what happened in the Watergate era there's a reason they were created at that time because there was a lot of waste rod and abuse happening and there were not cops on the beat that were internal that were independent that were situated in agencies to be able to find these things and expose them and do something about them that's what Inspector General exists to do so it's completely
▶ 1:04:42anathema to I'd say anatha to any state mission to find cost savings and to root out waste Fraud and Abuse to fire Inspector General and to undermine them it it it makes no sense those two things do not add up thank you very much the the firings that occurred uh on the uh when President Trump came to office included the special in Inspector General for Afghan reconstruction Mr Soco I I actually did over 20 trips to Afghanistan
▶ 1:05:13working with him he actually uncovered $4 billion doar in in Savings in rooting out American Tax pair uh waste uh being conducted in Afghanistan the IG at the Department of Defense the agency the gentleman's time has expired thank you madam chair I yeld back thank youate thank you I now recognize the gentleman from Texas Mr Cloud thank you madam chair for far too long DC politicians have gotten away with measuring their personal value and
▶ 1:05:43worth by how much of other people's money they give away and for far too long they self righteously have opined that the spending was for altruistic purposes given out of care and compassion for far too long they've been more concerned with looking like they cared than having enough care and concern to actually do the due diligence to ensure that the tax dollars were being used wisely and effectively and for far too long those of us who've worked to uncover waste Fraud and Abuse
▶ 1:06:13have had to deal with what amounts to an unconstitutional fourth branch of bureaucracy that has too often worked to ignore aisc delay and frustrate our efforts to bring transparency and oversight over the last few weeks the Doge effort has begun to uncover not only how massive the waste Fraud and Abuse is but also the extent at which DC politicians and too many obstinate bureaucrats have coordinated to create what is essentially the largest money laundering scheme in history
▶ 1:06:43and while Americans have been working to make ends meet they have been using taxpayer dollars to fund unnecessary egregious and even evil things here at home and around the world thankfully in Doge we have a president bringing the leadership needed and a focused effort along with the talent technology tools and transparency to this waste Fraud and Abuse and to those who would stand opposed to this effort I would just point out
▶ 1:07:14while it's understandable to find waste Fraud and Abuse that has grown and metastized in this government even over decades certainly uh accelerated over the last few years to continue to protect it is corruption I want to thank the chair for beginning this war on waste on this side of Pennsylvania Avenue and bringing together this committee this effort is so important as we work to relieve the Americans people of this burden of waste Fraud and Abuse Mr toov
▶ 1:07:44you mentioned in your written statement uh and talked about it in your your statement at the beginning that this waste Fraud and Abuse is a national security threat and certainly one of the challenges facing us that is a security security threat is our fiscal situation and so we have got to find ways to find savings to the American people in order to strengthen the bring confidence to the bond markets to to put our country on a fiscal footing uh and and to reverse the curse so to speak uh that we are placing on our our children and our grandchildren you
▶ 1:08:14mentioned a couple threats though you mentioned internal threats uh you said that these cases involve government employees individuals entrusted with administering benefits who instead of using their positions to approve fraudulent claims override security controls or even sell sensitive claim claiming information for profit now this is not every federal employee for sure but within the context of people who are trying to give their best effort we have an internal threat but you also mentioned transnational fraud Rings
▶ 1:08:44terrorist organizations Nations nation states North Korea nuclear weapons programs funded by our tax dollars China Nigeria Iran Romania Russia not our friends necessarily that are being being funded by taxpayer dollars could you give us some examples of how this is happening God yeah so um when you think about what happened during the pandemic $1 trillion doll was stolen 70% of that money went overseas and I can give you some examples in a western state
▶ 1:09:15they had more people applying for unemployment insurance benefits than they had individuals over 18 the people that were stealing the money from Romania were using it to facilitate other fraud schemes that include fentol that include doing things to impact our democracy on the inside of threat right the first thing you have to say and my dad was a public servant is 99% of people that work in the public sector are honest hardworking individuals but there are
▶ 1:09:45some and what you need is data and Technology to root that out there were examples during the pandemic there were some examples even of last week where people people got into the Medicaid system in a Southern in a western state and stole $50 million in less than four months so you have to have these controls in place right these aren't individual stealing Mr Cloud these are organized criminal groups both domestic and transnational that as you
▶ 1:10:16mentioned taxpayers are being forced to fund the demise of our own country uh Mr Winston I wanted to ask you because uh there's a lot of talk about reconciliation right now you mentioned Medicaid and what could be done to to bring pretty substantial amount of savings and this is without affecting those who truly need Medicaid and and for what the the purpose of the program was extended for now that the gentleman's time has expired did does the witness want to
▶ 1:10:46answer the question uh no only to say that yes there's a a a tremendous amount of savings that can be found from the streamlining rule but also work requirements in the program is another big area that can be done in reconciliation and that's could save uh a significant amount as well 241 billion in federal spending over 10 years thank you thank you thank you madam chair you're welcome I now recognize the gentleman from California Mr Garcia well thank you um thank you to all of our Witnesses for being here and I want to just start off by making something
▶ 1:11:16uh clear I think we're all here uh to fight against the lies of Corruptions and the attacks on our social safety net now we should in no way be cooperating with House Republicans who want to shut down the Department of Education and Destroy Medicare and Medicaid and we should not stand by as the richest man on the planet gives himself and his companies huge tax cuts while the American people get absolutely nothing now I find it ironic of course that our chairwoman congresswoman
▶ 1:11:46green is in charge of running this committee now in the last Congress chairwoman green literally showed a dickpick in our oversight Congressional special hearing so I thought I'd bring one as well now this of course we know is President Elon Musk he's also the world's richest man he was the biggest political donor in the last election he has billions of dollars in conflicts of interest and we know that he is leading a power grab
▶ 1:12:17also abided by and encouraged by Donald Trump and of course the chairwoman congresswoman green but I also want to run through what Jo actually is going to do it's a demolition plan that's going to run through our government Jo is trying to abolish the Department of Education that means opportunities denied to kids it means you're ripping away opportunities for children with disabilities who are dependent on this money you're also halting medical research which is also critical which we have to also stop the idea that we are going
▶ 1:12:47to eliminate or destroy the Department of National Institutes of Health n NIH is crazy let's talk about the Department of Labor we're talking about protections for working people across this country where people can actually complain about abuses their companies are making against them and their co-workers workers are now going to be in Danger let's also talk about the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau another huge issue for us think about the scammers and fraudsters that will be empowered across this country
▶ 1:13:18because Elon must wants essentially these companies have more power over consumers and over people across this country look at the Centers for Disease and centers for Medicare and Medicaid services that is actually what's being discussed partly today Healthcare we're talking about being denied to millions of poor people workingclass people across this country and now of course they're on to their largest Target the US Social Security Administration we're talking about this
▶ 1:13:48the destruction of the actual social safety net in this country we know that one in five Americans col Social Security seniors disabled people this entire plan is about hurting the American social safety net and destroying our institutions and it's important that we actually call out what is happening at this subcommittee this is not about working with the richest man on the planet this is actually about empowering this committee wants to empower the richest person in the world to hurt
▶ 1:14:18people so they can take all of this money that they So-Cal want to save and then give it to them themselves their companies and their billionaire friends that is the attack that is happening in this committee and across this country and it's important that we call it out we also know of course that Elon Musk is sending his unqualified Doge staff to carry out this agenda across all these agencies and in some cases actually teenage staffers
▶ 1:14:49no accountability no experience and problematic records they're trying to rob you and they're probably a minor thank you and I yield back the gentleman yields and I now recognize the gentleman from South Carolina Mr Timmons for five minutes thank you madam chair I I find it sad that my colleagues across the aisle can't take this seriously um we have $36 trillion in debt we run an annual
▶ 1:15:19almost $2 trillion deficit when I got elected 6 years ago we had $21 trillion in debt so in six years we've added over over1 15 trillion dollar to the debt and guess what president Trump ran on fixing this problem TR president Trump told the American people he would write the ship financially and he said during the campaign that Elon Musk was going to be the person to lead this charge the man that has turned business after business around uh he's the richest man on the planet because he succeeds at his Endeavors and that's
▶ 1:15:49why president Trump has appointed him the head of this effort this is a very serious problem and it's incredibly hypocritical that my colleagues across the aisle are complaining about this because Joe Biden Joe Biden signed his name and wanted the American people to believe that he had the ability to forgive $250 billion with a signature guess what Supreme Court ruled he did not that's
▶ 1:16:19our system of checks and balances um the president uh Biden he clearly was experiencing cognitive decline he didn't even have the ability to be charged with the crime as determined by his own department of justice but he signs his name and he thinks it gives a quarter of a trillion dollars away redistributes taxpayer dollars it's just crazy that we can't come together to address the greatest national security threat facing this country our
▶ 1:16:51debt now to the task at hand Medicaid fraud Mr talv um if we Implement enhanced identity verification and enhanced income verification what will happen how much money will we save you'll save hundreds of billions of dollars identity verification elimination of self-certification and monitoring beneficiaries will prevent these transnational criminal groups from
▶ 1:17:21accessing those systems at scale so legitimate people who need the benefit can get them in a timely fashion so we're going to get actual benefits to people to American citizens that are in need faster because if you do it electronically through uh web base like they did in Missouri where um the pilot program saved almost 20% of Medicaid dollars so all we have to do is adopt what has already been proven in Missouri and we'll save 20% to the people out there listening we spend
▶ 1:17:51almost $900 billion every year on Medicaid and if 20% of that is saved that's almost $200 billion we got a 1.8 trillion dollar annual deficit we just knocked off 200 billion let's keep this train going the fact that the Democrats are uh filing lawsuit after lawsuit to impede the efforts of President Trump to write our fiscal ship is unforgivable it's unforgivable um
▶ 1:18:22Mr talve you talked about p pic fraud I have a bill that would cause the IRS to share data with uh the small business administration and the FBI and the Department of Justice that would show that you were uh ineligible for um PPP loans and you got them so uh I think that would save probably a hundred billion um do do you think that we should go back and take money away from people that fraudulently uh got covid money
▶ 1:18:52yeah during the pandemic the people PP program was a virtual buffet for fraudsters and it was because of that 1974 Privacy Act where data sharing and matching is virtually impossible Congress needs to change that but we can do it retroactively we can do it retroactively we can find the people that stole this money hold them accountable probably get some of the money back so I already have that bill filed that bill um I think would probably get uh $100 billion so now we got um enhanced identity
▶ 1:19:23verification enhanced income ver verification that has been proven in Missouri it does work so I'm working on that bill we're going to drop it soon that's $200 billion there's a competition in Congress I think we should have a competition on this committee I got $300 billion doll in savings proposed um we got to all pull our weight because we have such a massive problem right now but I would just ask my colleagues across the Alle to get out of the way if you don't want to help if you don't want to help write the fiscal ship in this country get out of the way stop
▶ 1:19:53filing lawsuit after um we do not have the uh Financial ability to continue down this path and we're going to save this country with or without you you can kick and scream all the way or you can get out of the way I prefer the former thank you madam chair the gentleman yields I now recognize the gentleman from Texas Mr casar this subcommittee is supposedly about looking into waste Fraud and Abuse so I'd like to start talking about
▶ 1:20:23independent Inspector General who are supposed to be looking into waste Fraud and Abuse Mr talve do you know how many inspector generals at agencies that were investigating Elon musk's companies have been fired by the Trump musk Administration no it is five Miss Royal the Inspector General at the Department of Labor had 17 open investigations into Tesla and SpaceX do you know what the Trump musk Administration did to that Inspector General no
▶ 1:20:53they they fired him and I think youall know Mr witson the Inspector General at the Department of Transportation was investigating Tesla do you know what the Trump musk Administration did to that Inspector General no they were fired the department of defense's Inspector General was looking into SpaceX Mr hedler do you know what the Trump musk Administration did to that Inspector General I believe he was fired thank you I think everybody on the panel knows what the answer to these questions were the US Department of Agriculture
▶ 1:21:23Inspector General was investigating musk's neuralink Mr talve now I'll ask you again under oath do you know what Mr Trump did to that Inspector General that was looking into one of musk's companies no he was fired the Inspector General at the EPA was repeatedly taking on Tesla Mr hedler since it seems that you're answering the questions that everyone knows the answer to do you know what the Trump musk Administration did to that Inspector General I believe he was also fired also fired at least five inspector
▶ 1:21:54generals that were looking into Elon musk's companies were fired by the Trump musk Administration these inspector generals who are independent protected by law they are the people that find the waste Fraud and Abuse and found many of the cases of waste Fraud and Abuse that have been brought up today fired because they were looking into Elon Musk at the nlrb the National Labor Relations Board which is supposed to protect workers from getting their unions busted by folks like Elon Musk
▶ 1:22:24made functionally broken by the so-called Department of government efficiency that really is the Department of government efficiency for Elon Musk not for you they are trying to shut down the Department of Education the Department of Labor you know what Elon Musk doesn't seem to be looking into his own contracts again um I'll ask you Mr Talco do you know how much money a day Mr musk will receive from the federal government for his contracts
▶ 1:22:55no the answer is $8 million a day just last year Elon Musk was promised $3 billion from close to 100 contracts with the federal government um Miss Royal do you know how much the average person in this country who survives on Social Security one of our seniors who's worked their entire life about how much they have to survive on a day I do not $65 a day we're not looking into Elon musk's 8 million a day this subcommittee
▶ 1:23:25chaired by Marjorie Taylor Green in the house of Republicans is looking into your $65 a day let me be clear I think we would all support taxpayer savings look into money we might needlessly send to billionaires and big corporations find taxpayer savings and send it back to your hardworking family but instead what House Republicans and the Trump musk Administration want to do is they want to look into your kids lunch money your kids
▶ 1:23:56teachers salary into your grandparents Social Security they want to take that money and give it out in billionaire tax cuts and they are talking about that in committee tomorrow in budget committee tomorrow they just released their plan so let me be clear when Republicans talk about government efficiency in this Congress they're not looking into billionaires who don't pay their taxes they're not looking into billionaires who get rich off of Government contracts they're not looking into Elon Musk firing Watchdogs who are supposed to keep them accountable they're
▶ 1:24:26looking at cutting your Public Schools they're going straight for your Social Security they're coming straight for cancer research they're coming straight for the Department of Education they're not looking at Big Tech they're not looking at Big Pharma because those people fund their campaigns if this committee were serious about rooting out waste from our federal government then today's whole hearing would be about how musk and Donald Trump are firing the independent Watchdogs who've done this work for decades instead my Republican colleagues actual goal on this committee is to distract from Trump and
▶ 1:24:56from musk's corrupt war on accountability this will not be a subcommittee dedicated to making government efficient for everyday people it's about helping Elon Musk and Donald Trump be as efficient as possible in robbing our government and handing out our government service services to a to the rich so this seems that this subcommittee is just going to Gentle after the gentlem time has expired a total sham the American people are 30 6 trillion in debt
▶ 1:25:26it certainly seems reasonable that someone has been fired I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee you're going to put us further in debt with your billionaire you're not recognized Mr burett you're recognized for five minutes thank you chair lady um the gravy train for a lot of these folks it's been on biscuit wheels and it's about to run off the dead gum tracks and it's about time could you imagine standing up here and defending waste Fraud and Abuse but I think that's what we're saying when people squeal
▶ 1:25:56and don't ask questions I think it shows the American public what the heck's going on and that little gravy train is getting ready to run out the SP it is getting ready to be turned off Mr talve that's correct how you say your name brother yes sir all right how can the federal government improve identity verification for these uh entitlement programs yeah it's doing what the private sector does every single day whether you use your bank you go to Amazon using those tools
▶ 1:26:26and moving away from some of the dated compliance standards that the federal government uses uh nist I 863 2017 before there was anything called Deep fakes and generative AI tools I also I was um informed that PayPal has never been uh they've never been able to crack into that and steal people's Vital Information are they using those systems that you would would be favorable towards that government seems
▶ 1:26:57to be uh shying away from yes sir and describe that how that works the there there systems that are based on encryption they use technology and they use data to validate you are who you say you are the people that are stealing right now I believe a lot of them are actually ghosts from China Russia Nigeria and Romania I read a report today that North Korea was involved in this and some of that as well they are and those people are enemies
▶ 1:27:27again um they'll hate us for free we don't have to give them taxpayer money and are there loopholes that can be closed to avoid these improper payments and I wish you'd describe those to me right the the the biggest most important thing particularly in the benefit program space is the use of self-certification as Mr Timmons noted the state of Missouri is using a solution called steady IQ to validate wages and wealth you have you cannot allow individuals to provide
▶ 1:27:57the information based upon what they think it has to be based on what you know and that will stop the ghosts from using people's identities to steal money from taxpayers how much money do you calculate is wasted uh due to waste Fraud and Abuse in the entitlement programs each year yeah my number right now between federal state and local government is you can save $1 trillion a year by simply putting in front-end identity verification
▶ 1:28:28eliminating self-certification and monitoring the backend of the programs that are providing the benefits those three things you said you could eliminate that but there are others you feel like some more low hanging fruit I would start with those three things because they're simple that'll take that 20% fraud rate that you're seeing in the public sector down below 5% chair lady I would suggest that we uh adopt uh Mr Tim's legislation
▶ 1:28:58and get that out of the committee as fast as possible um what actions also could Congress take to fix these problems quickly yeah I think the the first thing is updating and redoing the 1974 uh Privacy Act that is virtually impossible to do data matching it's very difficult to have um data shared and when you look back at the pandemic data sharing and data matching would have stopped probably
▶ 1:29:2850% of the trillion dollars that was stolen from taxpayers any of yall like to add anything to that Congressman I would just add that uh rather than accepting self attestation that uh State should have to be required to actually verify people's identities and here's the key part before they get enrolled they shouldn't get enrolled and then eventually come down later on down the road it's amazing to me a doctor's appointment back
▶ 1:29:59in Knoxville and the verification process is very extensive it's more so than the federal government requires uh for any of this um what type of computer systems are these agencies using and do they updating they're using very dated technology but they're also burdened uh I look at the USDA 6 point 2 million words in a 10,000 page document that shows how
▶ 1:30:29to implement the rules of the program nobody can figure that out so one of the things that I think has to happen is the simplification of these processes and systems and then just use the technology that we use every day in the private sector okay thank youall so much for being here gentleman's time has expired thank you chair lady I now recognize the gentle woman from Texas Miss Crockett for five minutes thank you Madam chair um and Mr talve I'm just going to go ahead and pick up where you left off really quickly
▶ 1:30:59um just to be clear the upgrades that you're talking about as it relates to our data processes these aren't things that would be free are they they would cost some kind of money not looking for a number but they will cost correct some are free and some would cost money okay all right so I just want to leave it there because um we've had a number of these hearings so I do want to be clear before the the Trump Administration came in um this committee did exist in the form of the oversight committee
▶ 1:31:30and our task is to root out waste Fraud and Abuse in that vein we had a number of hearings at least last term I can't speak for any other term as I'm only in my sophomore term and we dealt with improper payments and interestingly enough our chairwoman who is so passionate about this today she missed every single one of those improper payment hearings but but just to be clear I was there so I don't want anyone to believe that Democrats just come to work
▶ 1:32:00and don't plan to do work in fact I'm trying to figure out exactly what it is that the Republicans believe our job is because right now they have relinquished their constitutional duties over to an unelected bureaucrat someone who no one went out to vote for and absolutely he is occupying uh the Oval Office as we saw yesterday and that is a first for me to see someone occupying the Oval Office who's never
▶ 1:32:30actually been elected to the Oval Office and and actually answering more questions than the person that allegedly got elected but for whatever reason this is the first time we're having a doge subcommittee hearing and that guy is not here instead we have y'all so I do want to thank you for coming but I will say this it's also interesting to me that in the first few days of Doge existing we know that they are trying to get rid of the Department of Education us Aid Consumer Financial Protection Bureau they're laying off FAA workers
▶ 1:33:01they are going after the FDA the CDC the HHS the FBI agents and they're talking about getting rid of FEMA and they brought y'all in and I am going to say that I actually was shocked that there was only one person that seemed like he was an overt Trumper as you laid out your opening remarks because I anticipated that at least one of y'all would say yes what Elon is doing is exactly what we would prescribe but instead I will applaud you because you actually were focused
▶ 1:33:32you talked about what the American people are looking for us to do we've actually consistently on this side of the aisle promoted this idea of making investments into technology so that we can do things such as say look at the Department of Defense the Department of Defense that takes up approximately oh 50% of our discretionary income or our discretionary spending approximately 50% goes to Department of Defense Department of Defense has not been able to pass an audit
▶ 1:34:02in the last six Audits and we're not talking about pennies I understand that we want everything to be perfect and if we could get all ways Fraud and Abuse out that would be fantastic but let me talk about the big numbers the big numbers are on that side when we look at say our entire Workforce our federal Workforce as we're trying to somehow fire all of them they don't even make up a total of 5% it's even less than that when we look at our budget but let's talk about defense that just happens
▶ 1:34:32to be the same side of the Ledger that Mr musk gets the vast majority of his money from in fact at the same time that they were unlawfully and we will stay in court because on this side we believe in Law and Order we believe in I mean a number of us are actually lawyers but nevertheless we understand the Constitution we believe in that as well and so there's things such as um you know impoundment right because as Mr witson said he said we need to return the power
▶ 1:35:02of the pur of Congress it never left according to the Constitution that's where it's at now I know that people are confused right now because for whatever reason we had a guy that went in and you talk about people invading our data listen people said that they were upset about Tik Tock but I'm upset about the guy that runs Twitter who for sure is doing the various things because I don't understand if you were trying to conduct Audits and figure out where the waste Fraud and Abuse is I don't know why you would go to some tech guy in
▶ 1:35:32fact it was only techies that were sitting there at inauguration we didn't have Auditors I I would welcome Auditors to come in and do forensic audits in fact he sat there in the Oval Office yesterday and he admitted that he was lying and he was using his propaganda machine to do it when he said that we sent millions of dollars to Gaza for Condoms that was a Li so let me tell you something weed time for us and R in this Rogue actor known the gentle L's
▶ 1:36:03time has expired I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri Mr Burleson thank you madam chair I just want to speak frankly at first to the American people we are nearing $37 trillion in national debt what does that mean that means that each and every US owes over $323,000 okay what does that mean that means when when the Epic which is the economic policy Innovation
▶ 1:36:33Center says we have 18 trillion left that's it 18 trillion left to take out and we're spending $2 trillion in debt every year folks we are at the precipice of a debt like a a like a debt cycle we are literally at a at a point in which the dollar will be worth nothing what does that mean and I mean it I mean we know social security goes bankrupt in 8 years right Medicare goes
▶ 1:37:03bankrupt in 10 years and then 15 years from now the the dollar is completely devalued and worth nothing so what does that mean that means your pension the money in your bank you know your savings me is mean is nothing it's worthless so what are we you doing we're trying to save this country we're trying to save your pensions we're trying to save your bank accounts we're trying to save this country for the next generation and it would be nice if we
▶ 1:37:33had help but instead we have people that are fighting us on this and you know they don't I think that it's I would hate to be in the Democratic party right now because you're in a really bad bind you're having to defend all of this crazy spending all of this crazy waste so how do you do it you do ad hominin attacks you attack the messenger oh Elon Musk right he's Rich he must be evil right that's the that's the attacks really you can't do any better than that right let's talk
▶ 1:38:04on the policy on the policy help us we're trying to save this country this is what and Elon Musk who's making no money doing this is trying to save this country why because he has invested in the United States of America more than anybody right so I think that we should embrace it in fact not a company governor of any state would ever turn down Elon Musk and his team of Doge from coming in and providing free services to write the course and
▶ 1:38:34financially in any state or organization it's ridiculous that we would demonize someone that loves this country so much uh Mr Whitman the formation of agencies via the executive action is not new right the the formation of Doge is not new can you you know are you familiar with any other previous presidencies where they've formed organizations like Doge via executive action yes so I so actually the agency that doge
▶ 1:39:04is occupying is one that was created in a previous administration so it is something that happens routinely um but uh but I don't know if that answers your question yeah there's been the office of budget management was created Environmental Protection Agency was created the US digital service which is now Doge was created all by executive order right and actually one other I'd add is US Aid was originally created through an executive order by President Kennedy and then later formalized and then um Madam chair
▶ 1:39:34I have a video I would like to end with um that just let's review if if we could cue that it remind and I want to remind my Democratic friends at a point in which you once had the majority of the American people on your side uh this is this is what your party believed in this report tells us how to cut waste cut red tape streamline the bureaucracy change procurement rules change
▶ 1:40:05the Personnel rules and create a government that works better and costs less I've read it and where it says the President should the president will among the 800 recommendations eliminating 12% of the federal Workforce submerging some government agencies like the FBI the DEA in the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms closing hundreds of government offices outside Washington from the day I took office one of the commitments that I made the American people was that we would do a better
▶ 1:40:35job here in Washington in rooting out wasteful spending uh we thought that it was entirely appropriate for our governments and our agencies to try to root out waste large and small uh in a systematic way it means uh cutting some programs that I think are worthy but we may not be able to afford right now a lot of the action uh is in Congress and legislative but in the meantime we don't need to wait for congress in order to uh do
▶ 1:41:05something about uh wasteful spending that's out there we haven't seen as much action out of Congress as we'd like and that's why we launched on our own initiative the campaign to cut waste and we're going to keep on finding every possible way that we can do that even if Congress is not acting there you go I think it speaks for itself my time is expired the the gentleman's time is expired thank you I now yield to the gentlewoman from the District of Colombia Miss Norton for
▶ 1:41:35five minutes thank you our Republican colleagues and the Trump Administration continue to demonize our friends and neighbors who work for the federal government and swear and oath to protect the Constitution and serve the public thousands of civili Ian federal employees have given their lives in the line of duty for their country the administration seems intent on dismantling much of the federal government in violation of the
▶ 1:42:05Constitution statutes and regulations and our Republican colleagues are letting them do it they want to gut the nonpartisan civil service and to convert a significant portion of the remaining Civil Service into Political appointees depriving the federal government of employees expertise and experience will harm the services that the government provides to all Americans uh Mr uh uh hetler
▶ 1:42:37garlett uh the administration is attempting to cause a mass Exodus from our federal Workforce will this increase or decrease waste Fraud and Abuse thank you delegate Norton I think uh it's pretty clear that chaos is not the friend of efficiency if you undermine the very functionality of the government you're not going to make it more efficient you're going to make it worse and it's going to cost even
▶ 1:43:07more money to recoup or to fix things that go wrong in the interim so I you know again I mentioned earlier that if you care about waste F and abuse firing Inspector General doesn't add up I think if you care about government being more efficient think intentionally creating chaos is the opposite of that well Mr uh hetler gotlet um do federal employees operate without oversight or rules and regulations no absolutely not they are governed by uh plenty of
▶ 1:43:37rules and regulations and when there are independent Inspector General at the agency they're supposed to be at they also have a cop on the beat making sure that they do so uh I want to highlight some stories demonstrating exactly the kinds of federal worker the administration is trying to force uh how about uh Chris Mark at the Department of Labor whose pioneering work on M safety has reduced mine
▶ 1:44:08safety minor safety deaths from roof collapses to almost zero today or Jared kopman at the Internal Revenue Service who Pion neared uh new methods for tracking criminal cyber security uh currency transactions that led to the rescue of 23 children from rape and assault as well as the seizure of hundreds
▶ 1:44:38of millions of child abuse videos and 370 uh pedopile arrests this work also prevented funding from going to terrorist groups or Ronald E wal who manages the 155 National cemeteries around the country and tends to uh the resting places of almost 4 million veterans these are just a few of the federal workers who serve Americans
▶ 1:45:08every day the workers are uh the workers are Wildland firefighters border guards nurses food inspectors air traffic controllers and law enforcement that do their civic duty often despite the fact that they could make such more in the private sector thank you and I yield back the G lady yields
▶ 1:45:39I now yield to the gentleman from Georgia Mr Jack well thank you very much Mi uh thank you very much Madam chair and I want to also thank you for convening uh this hearing I think it's incredibly important and I want to thank our Witnesses for appearing before us today uh like another member of this committee I too was once an employee of the Executive Office of the President I worked in president Trump's White House from the very first to very last day of his first term and I saw firsthand how entrenched and resistant the federal bureaucracy was to his agenda
▶ 1:46:10so it's no surprise that today a few of my Democrat colleagues have continued that Trend by using their time to bash Elon Musk instead of discussing ways to work together to advance a bipartisan Cornerstone of president Trump's agenda the mission to eliminate finally eliminate waste Fraud and Abuse and I just took a a rudimentary count of the the dims testimony or rather comments today and I've got 27 uh mentions of Elon Musk and three mentions of waste and I don't know if that's
▶ 1:46:40uh in fact the right count encourage anybody to fact check me but I think it illuminates and illustrates one of the problems that we're facing which is a lack of bipartisan effort to address these these critical things that you know waste Fraud and Abuse is something that should be bipartisan the chair noted that in her opening remarks um now Madam chair you know how much I enjoy studying public opinion so with your approval I'd like to enter into the record the CBS News poll from this past weekend conducted February 5th to 7th 2025
▶ 1:47:10and I'd also like to illuminate two findings first 70% of Americans Democrats and Republicans included believe President Trump is already doing the job that he was elected to which is interesting because I have an article here from CNN from September 2024 that notes Trump says Elon Musk has agreed to lead proposed government efficiency commission as ex-president unveils New Economic plans so he is doing exactly what he said he would do by empowering um his
▶ 1:47:40administration to root out waste Fraud and Abuse and that's exactly what we're trying to do here today I'd also like to note one interesting statistic from that 62% of Americans want Democrats and Congress to work with us to advance the priorities that President Trump was elected to uh to govern on so I I think those are two stats that I hope everyone pays attention to but uh to ask questions of our Witnesses I'd first like to start with Mr talve you know one of the things that I found uh very interesting from your opening testimony is you you talked and and I think you engaged with
▶ 1:48:10Mr burett on the 1974 Privacy Act and I had some interesting folks visit my office yesterday who noted that onethird of all prior authorizations are still done manually by phone facts or direct postmail uh first off would love your comments on that and I'd also like for you to expound upon some of the solutions that we can deliver this Congress and modernizing that 1974 Privacy Act yeah these aren't people problems these are technology problems you can't process the number of individuals
▶ 1:48:41that are accessing our systems person by person it just takes too much time so by updating the 1974 Privacy Act and allowing for digital matching you would have very quickly realized that a large portion of the PPP loan funds were going to the wrong person you would have been quickly able to match and I think the number was 20% were on the do not pay list you can't expect people to do what a machine and especially
▶ 1:49:11AI can do today fair enough thank you very much for that and if I can also asked uh Mr witson we um I think we share a common interest which is to to move Mo departments and agencies outside of Washington DC it's something that I campaigned on something that I helped president Trump effectuate in his first Administration and I have to imagine that if we have departments and agencies outside of DC if we've got um you know a Workforce that's more reflective of the balance that America is we at the same time too uh could potentially
▶ 1:49:41root out some of this waste Fraud and Abuse by enabling other Americans other uh citizens of our country to help Advance some of these issues so would love your your commentary on that before my time expires no I think you're exactly right Congressman Jack and so I think a you you'd save a lot of taxpayer money so building a headquarters in downtown DC versus Huntsville Alabama you're going to be able to save a lot of money number two you're actually going to make life better for the employees as well so that's a point that's also missed a lot but commuting into DC versus being a to go somewhere else where it's a better cost of
▶ 1:50:11living and things like that might be better for the folks and then lastly these areas where you set up a headquarters are going to be populated by people that live in the area to fill the rank and file of staff positions and so if you plant these Federal agency headquarters in the heart of any area that's overwhelmingly one party or the other then you're going to naturally get that sway versus something that's more representative of the people as a whole well thank you very much our Witnesses mindful of my time I want to finish before my time expires I yield back to our chairwoman marger Taylor
▶ 1:50:42green thank you and chairwoman I I would like to enter ask for un namous consent to enter something into the record so what is it it is a report from the Congressional research service nonpartisan CRS that lays out the rules and the law for firing inspectors general which of course look into waste Fraud and Abuse and without obje thank you and that rule requires for the law to be followed for Congress to be notified with 30 days and a reason for firing inspectors General to give Congress a chance to overrule
▶ 1:51:12that and that's the the law so thank you for entering that into the record Madam chair wi without objection the materials Mr Jack cited are also submitted for the record uh I now yes apologies and while we're on it I'd also like to ask for unanimous consent to submit for the record two items one is a statement from the AFL CIO Department of people who work for a living with views on working people to make the government work and the second is a statement for this from the center for responsibility and ethics in Washington
▶ 1:51:43on ways to combat waste Fraud and Abuse in the federal government without objection so ordered I now recognize the gentle lady from New Mexico and ranking member Miss St B for 5 minutes all right well thank you madam chairwoman and thank you once again to all of our Witnesses for being here to testify thank you to my colleagues we are going to have so much fun in this committee this Congress uh I actually appreciate the video that was shown just a few moments ago because when I worked at the Office of Management and budget
▶ 1:52:13I actually worked on the waste uh EO that was reference that President Obama signed but there is one fundamental difference between the president and vice presidents that were shown on that video and what's happening today and that is that they followed the law so my colleagues across the aisle who are asking us to get out of the way and stop trying to block things in the courts let me tell you we do not work for an unelected billionaire like apparently
▶ 1:52:43this guy does we work for the American people and so if an unelected unvetted individual private citizen is hacking our government systems breaking the law firing federal employees dismantling statutorily created agencies withholding funds we are going to fight you in the courts and I'm actually really sad that my dear friend Mr berett left because I want to talk about that gravy train on biscuit wheels that he just talked about because that gravy
▶ 1:53:14train is not the federal Workforce it's the billionaires that are trying to hack that system right now and which unfortunately my colleagues right now are working on a Reconciliation deal to cut Medicaid to cut Medicare and use that money to give to tax breaks to their billionaire buddies that is the gravy train that is actually going on here but because this is the oversight committee let's do a little bit of oversight for the last several weeks I've been talking to Treasury and OMB
▶ 1:53:44officials to try to get to the bottom of why Elon Musk and his team are trying to hack the treasury payment system because this is a completely nonpartisan system that literally just pays the bills of the federal government so why are they so eager to hack this system and I have to say that over the last several weeks we have literally received thousands of calls in every single Congressional office in fact uh we know that our friends across the aisle are
▶ 1:54:14also receiving these calls because this system pays the bills of the US government it pays our soldiers it pays for the work that we do overseas it pays your Social Security benefits it pays your tax refunds so why is Elon Musk and his hackers trying to access that system and why did a senior civil servant who had overseen the system for over 30 years get asked
▶ 1:54:44to stand down after a 25-year-old intern working for Elon Musk tried to get access to the C Cod for that system now thankfully they were shut down in the court system but musk has installed with the president's blessing one of his silicone buddies Silicone Valley buddies who I want to point out and which the media has not paid a lot of attention to is the CEO of a private IT company including Citrix that has millions of dollars
▶ 1:55:15in it contracts with the federal government and not only is he still operating as the in installed Doge person at treasury he's actively still the CEO of this private company how is that even legal is it legal I don't think it's legal because the federal court is trying to shut this down we also know that that 25-year-old software engineer in violation of the court order was actually given access to
▶ 1:55:45modify the code so what is going on here and why is this such a threat to the American people why thousands of people calling us it's because of the size and the significance of these payments because it is an invasion of the privacy and security of the American people because it could threaten our ability as a country in if there was a default in the debt ceiling and because it contains highly classified information that our foreign adversaries are trying to Cyber attack
▶ 1:56:15us regularly for so why is a private citizen being given access to this system we know they're trying to shut down payments they're trying to shut down agencies what's next are they going to shut down your Social Security payments we don't know because they have no oversight and Elon Musk will not come in front of this committee and in fact the treasury folks are saying this is the biggest Insider threat they've ever seen in the history of the agency so we
▶ 1:56:45are sounding the alarm and no matter how many executive orders that Donald Trump signs or how many tweets that the VP sends you cannot rewrite the Constitution and we are going to hold you to account I yield back the general lady yields and I now recognize oh yes I have three documents I want to submit for the record the first the first document is the Constitution Article two I would like to submit that for the record that clearly spells out the president's Authority I would also like to submit for the
▶ 1:57:15record us 5 us code 3161 the employment compensation of employees which clearly spells out his authority to create Doge and then I want to submit for the record the executive order that Trump issued on January 20th of 2025 establishing Doge officially without objection so ordered I now recognize the gentleman from Texas Mr Gil for five minutes thank you madam chair and thank you for hosting this committee if we've learned anything
▶ 1:57:45so far it's that Republicans want to cut waste Fraud and Abuse from our federal government and save tax pay her dollars and Democrats want a grandstand and play politics we can see right now even of the six Democrats on this committee only one can even be bothered to stay for the duration of this hearing all we've heard about for most of this hearing from the other side of the aisle is Elon Musk Elon Musk Elon Musk unelected
▶ 1:58:16bureaucrat and I'd like to ask if if Democrats really care about unelected bureaucrats make making decisions over our lives where were they whenever their God Anthony fouchy was forcing vaccine and mask mandates on the American people for four years during the uh excuse me for uh during the uh covid crisis where were they whenever unelected alandro mayorcas was facilitating the invasion of our country by illegal aliens who were murdering
▶ 1:58:46and raping and pillaging our people where were they whenever the secretary of Education unelected Cardona targeted States and schools and people who were uh disagreed with his view of the radical left's transgender ideology where were they whenever Gary guinsler former chairman of the secc also unelected was lawlessly thwarting the development of financial markets particularly in the crypto Space by
▶ 1:59:17lawlessly pursuing regulation via enforcement they were nowhere to be seen because they don't care because all of those things benefited their side of the aisle at the expense of ours and perhaps that's also why they don't seem to be very interested in rooting out improper payments from our federal government if you wonder why so many people are cynical about American politics this is it this is exactly why
▶ 1:59:47the reality is that Elon Musk serves as an employee of the president and we were given a massive mandate to carry out what he's been doing his job is to carry out the will of the American people as expressed through the executive that's exactly how the Constitution is supposed to work the Constitution did not create an unelected unaccountable fourth branch of government in the administrative
▶ 2:00:17State the American people know this uh my colleague Brian Jack discussed some of the opinion polls recently we are doing and president Trump is doing exactly what he is elect he was elected to do and that's why he's polling at a 53% approval rating higher than he was at any point during his first Administration even Elon Musk and his doge efforts now are polling at a 49% approval rating which just to point out is
▶ 2:00:4716 points higher than President Biden was polling at when whenever he finished his his term in office the Democrat Party has for decades systematically grown and weaponized the administrative State against the American people and the American people have had enough of it right now we're talking about $2.7 trillion doll in improper payment 2003 we are uncovering
▶ 2:01:18what could be the biggest money laundering scandal in American history and the other side of the aisle could care less they have no concern about where this money went to what entities it went to what governments to what people or groups nothing all they're all they want to talk about is Elon Musk incessantly so it does make me wonder if they don't care about where it's going do they have an idea because what we've uncovered so far is that so much of the
▶ 2:01:48waste Fraud and Abuse of our federal government is actually funding their side of the aisle it's funding media Outlets that are running cover for routinely the NPR PBS the BBC Politico it's going to fund left-wing uh NOS that are facilitating the invasion of our country it's going to fund left-wing transgender activism and sex changes all over the globe this is money that's being
▶ 2:02:18used taken from the American people and used against their interests if you care about rooting out waste Fraud and Abuse we should be serious about this um I'm very excited to be on this committee I'm excited uh to expose what's being going on thank you madam chair and with that I yield the gentleman yields in closing I want to thank our Witnesses again for their testimonies today I now yield to the ranking member for closing
▶ 2:02:50remarks thank you mad Madam chairwoman well I never thought so many conspiracy theories and wild accusations could be wound into one five minute speech but I appreciate my friends across the aisle first of all let's talk about this massive mandate that uh supposedly brought Donald Trump into office Donald Trump did not run on putting an unelected billionaire in charge of dismantling the federal government he ran on lowering prices
▶ 2:03:20for Americans and I think it's interesting that while we're sitting here this morning the top of the New York Times is reporting that inflation has risen unexpectedly as food and energy prices have soared what's going on guys I thought you were going to tackle inflation in food and energy prices isn't that what the executive orders were supposed to do oh wait or is dismantling diversity
▶ 2:03:51equity and inclusion and our federal agencies and putting an ideological agenda and trying to fire the federal Workforce your actual agenda have you been too busy trying to actually address the fiscal health of this country because the numbers are telling us that you have so let's be real about what's going on here I also want to point out that literally while we've been sitting here for the last almost two hours getting lectured on fiscal responsibility literally the
▶ 2:04:21Republicans just released their plan to raise the debt limit while we were sitting here and they want to raise it by 4 trillion okay guys like literally I I'm just like without words inflation is going up you want to raise the debt ceiling by $4 trillion you want to gut Medicare you want to get Medicaid you're talking about going after Social Security after promising
▶ 2:04:51that you wouldn't I mean really what the heck is going on here we're not trying to take down Elon Musk as a businessman this dude is literally breaking the law inside of the federal government and for a party that is supposed to be the party of Law and Order in quotes I really do not see you holding him accountable in doing your most basic constitutional responsibility in the separation of powers so I want
▶ 2:05:21to end where I started we are the oversight committee we are the people's house for the United States of America we represent the American people and so Mr Elon Musk if you would like to appear in front of the oversight committee you have been duly invited please come tell us what you're doing come testify in front of the American people and please come hold yourself to account with that I yield back the general lady yield
▶ 2:05:51I now recognize myself for closing remarks president Trump was elected with a mandate to reign in unaccountable bureaucracy in Washington and to wage war on waste I know that because I campaigned alongside him and so did my colleagues this hearing was the first battle of that war and in the coming days the subcommittee will release a report with legislative solutions to the problems we have identified here today we aren't going to wait all the way
▶ 2:06:22until the end of this Congress we're going to get to work immediately the bureaucrats who have run Washington for decades are beyond the point of forgiveness their sheer incompetence and pure spite for the hardworking American people have resulted in total failure the federal government has made over $2.7 trillion dollar in improper payments since 2003 including 236 billion in 2023 alone
▶ 2:06:52those are trillions of dollars that honest Americans have paid in taxes at gunpoint over the years as we approach April 15th Americans are once again preparing to do their taxes and Fork over their unfair share of money it takes to run this country and I have to tell you the American people have not been getting their money's worth for a long time most improper payments in recent years were issued through 5 programs
▶ 2:07:22Medicare Medicaid the Earned Income Tax Credit pandemic unemployment insurance and the paycheck Protection Program but a total of 16 Federal programs had improper payment rates of 10% or more in 2023 that includes snap the federal food stamp program which paid out 10 billion taxpayer dollars improperly to get their arms around this problem Elon Musk and the Doge team
▶ 2:07:52went straight to the source they went to the treasury Department's fiscal service which makes about 90% of the trillions and federal payments issued annually the audit of these Payment Systems was long overdo treasury secretary Scott bassent gave Doge employees working for the government readon access to these systems so they could conduct that initial audit that audit is already paying dividends musk learn
▶ 2:08:23that the databases federal agencies are supposed to check to prevent payments to fraudsters Crime rings and dead people are not being kept up to date going forward we are going to get more mileage out of these do not pay databases that means fewer improper payments and less fraud and waste of taxpayer dollars despite this fraud that's already been revealed a federal judge in New York issued a ruling last Friday that ran totally
▶ 2:08:53contrary to the will of the people the judge blocked not only Doge but the treasury secretary himself from accessing his own agency's Payment Systems that's absurd only career Treasury Department unelected bureaucrats can access the system the judge ruled this turns the constitution on its head we will hold this judge and others who try to stop the will of the people and their elected leaders accountable as is
▶ 2:09:23written in the Federalist Papers the Judiciary has no influence over either the sword or the purse no Direction either of the strength or the wealth of the society it may truly be said to have neither Force nor will but merely judgment and must ultimately depend upon the aid of the executive arm for the E efficacy of its judgments but the whole whole DC swamp is freaking out that the unelected
▶ 2:09:54officials from Doge were allowed access to these systems that makes no sense federal judges were not elected the treasury bureaucrats were not elected and they have failed to fix the problem that is enabling American taxpayers to be robbed so why not bring in skilled out outside experts like private companies and private citizens who are exess who are successful in the real world to do every day work that we need to get done here like
▶ 2:10:24audits of course Federal payment systems are only one Link in the improper payment chain we need to look at other links in the chain we need better front-end identify verification to screen out fraudsters and we need to close eligibility loopholes that means not letting applicants self attest to their own eligibility and it means ending categorical eligibility which lets someone who fraudulently qualif if I for One Federal benefit automatically get
▶ 2:10:54other Federal benefits finally we need to do better coord we need to better coordinate fraud prevention efforts between Federal governments and the states these are all issues that we will be taking a hard look at in this committee and coming up with solutions to including legislation and referrals to Committees of jurisdiction that will deliver for the American people with that and without objection all members have five
▶ 2:11:24legislative days within which to submit materials and additional written questions for the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses if there is no further Business Without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned e