▶ 0:08:45Witness mic test. Witness mic test.
▶ 0:09:51Mike test Witness Mike. This
▶ 0:16:47the heat.
▶ 0:22:49Subcommittee on economic development, public buildings, and emergency management will come to order. Chair ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing. without objection. So ordered. Chairman also asked unanimous consent that members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions without objection. So ordered.
▶ 0:23:14As a reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please also email it to documents timail.house.gov. The chair now recognizes himself for the purpose of an opening statement for five minutes. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today to discuss reforming FEMA and how we can bring common sense back to federal emergency management.
▶ 0:23:38After witnessing the federal government's response to Hurricane Helen last year and the recent Los Angeles wild wildfires, I like many Americans were shocked by many of the stories I heard coming from these communities. I know members of this committee have proposed and Congress has enacted reform after reform to make FEMA and the federal emergency management system work better. Despite these efforts, it seems that nothing improves.
▶ 0:24:08And this is not meant to be a beatdown of FEMA, but we can't just keep going the way we've been and expect different outcomes. In fact, uh, the bureau, uh, correction, the bureaucratic labyrinth seems to have only become more complicated, causing unnecessary delays when disaster strikes. Taxpayers fund FEMA grant programs for states and local governments to invest in mitigation, preparedness, and response.
▶ 0:24:36Yet, many of these programs move too slow, preventing timely and effective action when it is most direly needed. I mean for 46 years individual regions should have been reducing risk the impact of emergencies and the number of emergencies themselves. And unfortunately the metrics including the cost and impact have all gone in the wrong direction.
▶ 0:25:03What we saw in the case of Hurricane Helen is demonstrative of the fact of that fact. FEMA was illprepared to support the response and recovery in the mountains of North Carolina. In California, we saw a lack of preparedness by state and local officials from a lack of water for firefighting to disorganization on the ground despite literally billions of taxpayer dollars going to California for mitigation, preparedness, and On top of
▶ 0:25:33all that, there are still over 1,000 open FEMA disaster declarations dating back to Hurricane Katrina, which is over 20 years ago, and well well over 5,000 open projects. This raises serious questions about the federal government being the best institution to respond to localized disasters.
▶ 0:25:54Federal disaster assistance was created to support state and local governments when absolutely necessary when the resources required exceed the ability of local agencies to respond. Unfortunately, the result has been to utilize FEMA as the first responder responder to every disaster occurring throughout the nation. This almost absolute reliance on the federal government is dangerous and costly.
▶ 0:26:21FEMA is not designed to be the first responsor responder in disasters. States and local governments are. They know their communities best. They understand the risks, what their communities need, the terrain, and how to navigate it quickly, responding to emergencies. It is critical, therefore, that state and local governments make disaster preparedness a priority and that they budget for it. Let me say that again. And that they budget for it.
▶ 0:26:50have the right people and training in place and ensure that they have the capacity and capability to respond. The current system creates a perverse incentive for states. States are mostly off the hook for meaningfully investig investing in their own emergency response and preparedness plans because they know they can rely on FEMA stepping in every time, even if it is inartful at best.
▶ 0:27:16Meanwhile, FEMA is stretched thin and is so weighed down by self-imposed bureaucratic requirements that they can't respond effectively when called upon or even close out project going back 20 years. FEMA's ability to function effectively was further undermined as the previous administration pushed its open border equity and climate agenda onto the agency, resulting in resulting in disaster funding being diverted to ridiculous projects like planting trees to address urban
▶ 0:27:46heat islands. It's no wonder that President Trump created the FEMA review council and issued exe an executive order on state and local I am hopeful that this hearing will provide valuable insight as uh TNI is the lead house committee on FEMA and federal emergency management because meaningful reform is obviously absolutely urgently needed. With that, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on these topics.
▶ 0:28:15And the chair now recognizes the ranking member uh Representative Stanton for five minutes for his opening statement. Thank you very much uh Mr. Chair. Thank you all for attending this important hearing titled Reforming FEMA, bringing common sense back to emergency management. I am the new ranking member of this subcommittee and I take federal disaster assistance delivery very seriously and I look forward to conducting oversight on FEMA's important work.
▶ 0:28:42FEMA is where Americans look for help, critical help after what is likely the worst day of their lives. So, it is critical that the agency be postured to respond at all times. For most of its life, FEMA has been an a-olitical entity. Red state or blue state, it didn't matter. FEMA stayed focused on the mission to help all Americans and kept out of the political fray.
▶ 0:29:12Sadly, that is no longer the case today. Following the recent catastrophic disasters in California and South Carolina, President Trump has focused more on spreading misinformation than helping Americans in need. Specifically, after the tragic wildfires in Los Angeles, he threatened to condition disaster relief on policy matters that have nothing to do with emergency management.
▶ 0:29:41This is simply wrong and shakes the trust that Americans have in their government to come to their aid after uh catastrophe. That's what FEMA is all about. We should have a discussion about how to improve FEMA, but we should have a baseline. The need that we we as a baseline, we should acknowledge the need that we have an federal emergency management agency specifically there to help states and localities when an emergency goes beyond their ability to immediately deal with it.
▶ 0:30:09Yesterday, yesterday, DHS Secretary Gnome added to that uncertainty facing disaster survivors when she said that we're quote, "We're going to eliminate FEMA," unquote. In a presidential cabinet meeting, President Trump responded by saying, quote, "Great job," unquote. I will never support eliminating FEMA or conditioning aid for emergency disaster assistance.
▶ 0:30:34Whether a state is red or blue, they are American and they are entitled to the support of their fellow Americans on their worst day. So I condemn conditions to I condemn calls to condition emergency disaster assistance in the strongest possible terms and urge elected leaders to never make such comments again. Unfortunately, threats to conditioning life-saving assistance is not the only partisan game happening at FEMA.
▶ 0:31:02In February, Elon Musk Department of Government Efficiency entered FEMA and has been wreaking havoc ever since. They've they've access secure government systems that include disaster survivors personal information and slow the delivery of FEMA assistance. I'm deeply troubled to learn that all FEMA grants are now subject to additional review to to ensure that they are complimentary to President Trump's political agenda. And federal employees are living in fear that they will be fired if they approve the wrong grant payment.
▶ 0:31:33Federal employees should not be concerned about approving grant dispersements approved by this body, Congress, in a bipartisan way. In fact, it is a law that FEMA disperse payments that are mandated by Congress. Plain and simple, I will not stand by quietly if we see illegal action related to the dispersement of FEMA grants. The agency cannot violate the Empowerment Control Act.
▶ 0:31:58I'm deeply concerned that the influence of Doge at FEMA, which contains no emergency management experts at Doge, and that they're going to steer the agency in the direction of another Katrina. Prior to Hurricane Katrina, FEMA was overhauled and tucked into the Department of Homeland Security without proper consultation from professional emergency managers. FEMA was weakened by being subsumed in the DHS without proper consultation with emergency management professionals.
▶ 0:32:22The result was unnecessary, catastrophic loss of life, the worst in modern disaster history. We cannot afford to repeat the mistakes of the past. That said, reforming FEMA thoughtfully does not mean we should avoid change altogether. In Arizona, we know that FEMA can do better. Last summer, extreme heat caused temperatures in my district and that were nearly unlivable. We lost over 600 of our fellow citizens to extreme heat and extreme heat islands.
▶ 0:32:51We we experienced unending 100 degree temperatures for over a month in the past. A break from the heat could be enjoyed during the night, but that is a a luxury we no longer have. The heat in our state literally caused roads to crack, cars to melt, and hundreds of lives lost. However, FEMA was not to be found in Arizona because the agency has not yet adapted to emergency disasters like extreme heat. Heat is a silent killer. It advances quietly and lingers. The longer it lingers, the more devastating the impact.
▶ 0:33:19So, we must reform FEMA to address extreme heat. I look forward to working with the agency to ensure that they have the resources and authority they need to respond to disasters all across uh the country. So, I look forward to this important hearing hearing from my colleagues. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Chair, thanks. The gentleman chair now recognizes the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Representative Larson, for five minutes. Thank you, Subcommittee Chair Perry and Subcommittee Ranking Member Stanton for convening today's hearing. Uh, emergency management in the US today stands at a crossroads.
▶ 0:33:50As the nation grapples with devastation caused by hurricanes Helen and Milton, the wildfires in LA and other disasters across the country, FEMA's role has become under has come under intense scrutiny. The combined damage and economic losses from Hurricane Helen and the LA wildfires alone exceed $200 billion. Successfully managing recovery efforts for such catastrophic events will require robust congressional oversight, supplemental funding and presidential leadership.
▶ 0:34:20Instead of uniting the nation though to rebuild what has been lost, the administration has unfortunately exploited and politicized these disasters. The president has spread dis misinformation in the wake of these tragedies, threatened to cond disaster aid, and doubled down on his suggestion to eliminate FEMA altogether. Just yesterday, Secretary Gnome said, quote, "We are going to eliminate FEMA." End quote. During a cabinet meeting, no, we are not.
▶ 0:34:49These actions are harmful disa to disaster survivors and the women and men who work at FEMA and have dedicated their lives to helping fellow Americans respond to and recover from disasters. FEMA's mission is clear to assist people dur before, during, and after disasters. States turn to FEMA when they have exceeded their capacity to respond to a disaster.
▶ 0:35:10As Pete Gainner, FEMA administrator during President Trump's first term, aptly stated, "Emergency management is locally executed, state managed, and federally supported. FEMA provides a critical backs stop when all other options and resources are exhausted. Eliminating FEMA would not make communities safer, would not reduce insurance premiums, would not improve outcomes for disaster survivors.
▶ 0:35:34Instead, it would shift the burden of disaster response and accountability from the federal government to state and local governments. And Democrats have long championed improvements to to the delivery of disaster assistance. It isn't new to us that FEMA needs to be reformed. And last year, many bipartisan FEMA related bills um uh were discussed in this committee and we attempted to pass them out of the House. Representative Titus' Disaster Survivor Fairness Act to reform FEMA's individual assistance program.
▶ 0:36:04Representative Stanton's wildfire response improvement act to make FEMA's programs better equipped to address impacts of wildfires and Representative Neuse's disaster management cost modernization act to build state and local emergency management capacity. Democrats remain committed to pursuing bipartisan FEMA reforms and getting reform right, however, requires careful consideration and input from emergency management professionals.
▶ 0:36:27For example, the president has suggested that disaster assistance could be fixed by simply providing block grants for recovery to impacted states. FEMA already offers a block grant option through the public assistance alternative procedures program authorized by section 428 of the Stafford Act. However, states rarely use this authority due to the perceived risks involved.
▶ 0:36:48The Department of Housing and Urban Development's long-term disaster recovery block grant program has faced challenges in delivering the outcomes and delivering outcomes and similarly has been the subject of bipartisan scrutiny. If we want these reforms to federal emergency management to succeed, the reforms must be informed by the challenges faced by existing programs and built on recent progress.
▶ 0:37:10For instance, in 2019, Congress authorized the creation of a pre- disaster mitigation grant program known as BRICK to enhance community resilience against disasters while reducing recovery costs for individuals as well as state and local governments. This was passed as part of the discovery uh disaster recovery reform act. And I want to thank the Trump 1.0 administration for advocating for this and for the president for signing that bill.
▶ 0:37:36So any reforms to FEMA should focus on expanding the AY's capability to support resilience project projects and not diminishing them. So I look forward to discussing possible solutions to improve FEMA and outcomes for disaster survivors with the panel of qualified experts that we have before us today. I want to thank you all for being here. I look forward to your testimony. You'll back chair. Thanks the gentlemen. like to welcome our witnesses and thank them for being there, especially being here, especially the ones who've traveled great distance today.
▶ 0:38:06Briefly, I'd like to take a moment to explain the lighting system to our witnesses who may not have been here recently or maybe ever. There are three lights in front of you. Green means go. Yellow means you're running out of time, and red means to conclude your remarks. Chair asked unanimous consent that the witness's full statements be included in the record without objection so ordered.
▶ 0:38:29Chair also asked unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing without objection. So ordered. Chair also asked Manana's consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:38:54As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. With that, Mr. Curry, you're recognized for five minutes for your testimony, sir. Thank you, Chairman Perry, Ranking Member Stanton, and other members of the subcommittee. It's an honor to be here today to talk about GAO's work on FEMA.
▶ 0:39:14Uh I think the hearing and um the discussions around reform are great opportunity to address many long-standing challenges that we and many others have identified for years and years. We have looked at federal response and recoveries for years r going from Guam to Puerto Rico and everywhere in between.
▶ 0:39:34And what we have seen is an increasingly complicated, fragmented, inflexible, and lengthy process that seems to get harder and harder by the year. Uh FEMA and the rest of the federal government have spent over $500 billion in the last 10 years on disaster aid. There are currently over 30 federal agencies that are involved in disaster assistance.
▶ 0:39:58And many of these programs which pay for rebuilding the same types of infrastructure have overlapping or duplicative requirements. Just as an example, um the Department of Transportation, FEMA, HUD programs can all be used to build similar infrastructure, but they may require completely different paperwork, different environmental reviews, have different rules, and most difficultly are on different timelines, which makes it virtually impossible to synchronize those programs
▶ 0:40:28for recovery. This is a major reason why recovery takes up to 20 years. As you said, Mr. chairman. Uh two years ago, we actually issued a report outlining this systemic problem and came up with a number of options that Congress could take to reform the system.
▶ 0:40:47These were uh ranged from simple options to better streamlining current programs, registration websites, things like that, all the way to more significant changes like complete reorganizations and overhauls of disaster agencies themselves. On top of this, as you said, FEMA's workforce is is overwhelmed.
▶ 0:41:09Um, there are over 600 major disasters and, as you said, over a thousand fire disasters and all all types of disasters going back many, many years that require staffing to address each one of those and thousands of projects. Last we looked at it, FEMA was 35% short of its staffing needs based on the expectations on the agency and there is now a never-ending disaster season.
▶ 0:41:37The workforce structure was created at a time when when large disasters were very rare and it needs to be reformed and it's not just about the numbers but the whole structure needs to be reformed to be more responsive. Also I want to talk about individual survivors. We have to shift to programs that are not government centric but are survivor centric. And when I say that I mean they have to be geared towards helping a person get the assistance they need at the worst time of their life.
▶ 0:42:07Um a big problem at FEMA are antiquated technology and financial management systems. These need to be fixed in order for FEMA to be able to to deliver the technology solutions that we already have in the private sector to try to intake people and get them the assistance they need. Last thing I'd like to talk about are just a few cautions to consider for this committee as you look to reform the system and for administration.
▶ 0:42:35First is the national response framework. Um, I think we have to be really careful not to break what's not broken. Uh, we have to not forget Hurricane Katrina and what we fixed after that. The national response framework provides steady funding and coordination mechanisms that all levels of government understand at this point and I think the structure works well. We also have to remember the capacity differences across the country.
▶ 0:43:02Some states and counties and cities have the resources and the capacity to manage disasters. Many others we see just don't. And that's not going to change anytime soon. These are always going to need state and federal support to provide the response that we need to help those citizens. And then last, it's not just about FEMA. Um, if we look to reform FEMA but don't fix the whole disaster response and recovery system, it's not going to fix the problem.
▶ 0:43:32And I think that's very important to consider as we move forward. So, I look forward to uh your questions and the discussion. Chair thanks gentleman for his testimony. Chair now recognizes Mr. Guthrie for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman Perry, Ranking Member Stanton, also Ranking Member Larson, and other distinguished members of the committee for the invitation to testify today. I'm Kevin Guthrie. I'm the executive director of the Florida Division of Emergency Management.
▶ 0:43:58Throughout my tenure, I've led the division through numerous major events, including hurricanes such as Ian, Michael, Dorian, Esas, as well as wildfire, wildfires, floods, tornadoes, and the Surfside building collapse. I've also assisted in national immigration efforts like Operation Vigilant Century in Florida and Operation Lawnstar in Texas. In my 30 plus years of experience at the local and state level, I've responded to over 50 major incidents.
▶ 0:44:26Under Governor Ronda Santis' leadership, FDM has become a model for the future of emergency management. This is due to our professionals dedication and the lessons learned from our experience in a disasterprone state. Florida looks forward to working with you and President Trump's administration to improve the Federal Emergency Management Agency. We've learned the importance of effective coordination across all levels of government. FDM allows the philosophy that emergencies are federally supported, state managed, and locally executed.
▶ 0:44:57We emphasize collaboration with local governments, supporting their response efforts instead of dictating them. This approach has allowed us to build on local best practices and continuously improve Florida's emergency capabilities. This collaborative model is enhanced by the critical support that the federal government provides. FDM operates yearround, requiring funding even for non-d disaster periods.
▶ 0:45:22While federal grants help maintain our capabilities, we need to focus federal support on expanding state and local capacities. States must have flexibility to build their systems without relying on federal funding during a non-crisis period. One way to solidify this approach is through federal block grants for emergency management. Block grants will allow states to quickly allocate funding for response and recovery operations, reducing bureaucratic delays and staffing needs at the federal level.
▶ 0:45:50As we look to future improvements, one key area, as mentioned, is the integration of modern technology into our response systems. Florida has led the way and has modernized emergency management by dig digitizing workflows and improving data input processes. This has improved our efficiency, reduced delays, and expedited payment processing, cutting the time it takes to process invoices from 61 days during hurricane Ian to just 16 days in recent hurricane season.
▶ 0:46:20Our use of technology has also reduced administrative cost and helped streamline disaster response. Data sharing among federal, state, and local agencies is essential to improving response times. Leveraging advanced analytics, machine learning has empowered decision makers in Florida to act faster and be more accurate than ever before. Another critical component of Florida's success has been our ability to collaborate with our other states through the Emergency Management Assistance Compact known as EMAC.
▶ 0:46:50Emac, which is financially supported by the federal government, has been essential in states receiving aid that they need when they lack the necessary resources to respond and recover independently. Since 2022, Florida has leveraged EMAC in six major disasters, receiving crucial support from 39 states. While collaboration has been effective, there are still areas where federal processes could be streamlined to enhance disaster response.
▶ 0:47:18There are several ways the federal government can improve disaster response such as creating a combined federal disaster declaration process. This would eliminate delays caused by separate declarations for separate agencies. Additionally, streamline streamlining disaster case management. And last, grant closeout procedures would accelerate recovery efforts and reduce displacement for survivors. All three of these have impacted me directly during my tenure with the state of Florida.
▶ 0:47:43As we continue to enhance our capabilities, Florida also emphasizes the importance of operational readiness. FDM maintains a network of strategically located warehouses for rapid resource deployment and implements emergency standby contracts to ensure fast access to critical resources. Routine communication with state, local, and federal partners through the state emergency response team in Florida keeps Florida prepared for disaster. Sir, in conclusion, I would like to express my gratitude for the opportunity to testify before you today.
▶ 0:48:13Emergency management is a public safety entity that is essential for protecting lives and property. By improving federal support, we can strengthen our nation's disaster response capabilities and ensure faster recovery for all Americans. I look forward to continued collaboration with you, the committee, and the administration to improve these systems. Thank you. Chair thanks gentleman for his testimony. The chair now recognizes Miss Lauder. You're recognized for five minutes, ma'am. Thank you, chairman, and members of the committee.
▶ 0:48:43Nine days. For nine days, my county's emergency responders and I bore witness to the aftermath of the most devastating natural disaster to hit our community in over 100 years. We witnessed a family's terror when their little boy was injured in a landslide, taking their home off its foundation. We witnessed a very pregnant mother desperately trying to dry out her empty trailer with dehumidifiers so that she would have somewhere to bring her baby home to, all of her possessions in a dumpster nearby.
▶ 0:49:08We witnessed the elderly man in his home, too overwhelmed to start the process with mold creeping up the walls around him within days of the flood. For those nine long days, our community was trying to grapple with the destruction of Helen, trying to chart a path forward, searching for answers to questions, and without the key partner who was supposed to be at our aid, without FEMA. And it would be two weeks after the storm before more than a single worker arrived. Despite repeated pleas for help locally, we knew housing was going to be one of the greatest challenges. Immediate needs posttorm are the basic necessities we all understand.
▶ 0:49:38Clean water, food, and shelter. FEMA trans temporary shelter assistance is illfitted to meet the needs of rural America. Our citizens who qualified for TSA found hotel choices to be in Greenville, South Carolina or Charlotte, North Carolina, both two hours outside of our county, leaving untenable options to stay in damaged homes, bunk with family and friends, or leave their job, school, and community behind for an unknown time. Appalachins don't leave our home, our land, or the fabric of our community. So, the TSA vouchers may as well have been monopoly money.
▶ 0:50:07Even after FEMA's arrival, the negative impact of delay in FEMA response was compounded by ongoing communication challenges, changing FEMA staff assignments, and contradicting information and directions that stalled progress for my community. In the written testimony, you will even see where our sheriff and I were repeatedly given opposite updates on door-to-door response by FEMA representatives that could have resulted in conflicting public messages, except for the fact that in my community, the sheriff and I work side by side in emergency response, communicating regularly.
▶ 0:50:35At 21 days and with tireless advocacy, we were granted a meeting with FEMA housing mission leaders. We received an overview of the housing options coming along with identifying some obstacles that we would face. For instance, we were able to explain the inadequacy of HUD's fair market rent methodology in our rural community and how that would hamstring any possibility of rentals being an option if the FMR was used to establish allowable rents. We were heard and a request was elevated immediately to approve an increase in the allowable FEMA rate.
▶ 0:51:01Even with the increase, rental assistance could not meet the needs of those whose homes were destroyed and more adoptions would be needed. Ultimately, we found that housing process requirements under FEMA are too rigid to apply effectively in our mountainous community. For those who could leverage the assistance options, progress was only made after establishing weekly FEMA and state EM calls with us locally to cut through miscommunications and establish accountable discussions. At times, our county would face contradictions from different FEMA silos, as you will also find documented in the written testimony.
▶ 0:51:30While putting our county resources to task trying to support the FEMA mission, we would also feel the sting of the deep conflict and contradiction of FEMA being both disaster response and regulator of local flood plane management programs. Threats of of losing NFIP status and future disaster funding in our community made it harder to assist families in repairing their homes to meet immediate human needs post disaster. While at the same time, other FEMA workers were working with us to support housing among limited solutions.
▶ 0:51:55Contradicting guidance and unclear processes were also frustrating to vulnerable survivors and lack of answers led deteriorating public trust and faith in FEMA, but not because the people deployed were not genuine and serviceoriented people. It was because the workers themselves were stuck in a system designed to prioritize process and policy over common sense and responsiveness. We saw these workers hamstrung to help us with the lack of training across functions and a system difficult to navigate even for them. While there were genuine attempts to be responsive to the local needs like approving private roads and bridges for assistance in western North Carolina.
▶ 0:52:25The decisions on requirements attached were made in bubbles far away from our community that did not engage local leadership. Meaning that guidance is still fraught with concerns about the ability to meet the requirements that will be imposed. Transennsylvania County lost homes, infrastructure, and possessions. But somehow we did not lose lives at Toene. What I can't imagine is how our sister counties who lost whole towns are navigating these processes when the recovery is far more complex and the sting of loss so much deeper.
▶ 0:52:49Communities facing recovery need assistance with our counties representing the frontline response needed and needing realistic solutions and meaningful engagement before a disaster. The stated mission of a responsive FEMA can be achieved, but only when the local voice is not just heard, but is also involved in the solution building so that practical boots on the ground insight can be engaged upfront. Only then can we effective and efficiently support our survivors.
▶ 0:53:14My community, all of our communities, our people across the country, and the FEMA workers themselves deserve better. Together, we must do better. Thank you for the opportunity to share about my community's experience. Chair thanks a gentle lady for her testimony. The chair now recognizes Mr. Garcia for five minutes. Chairman Perry, ranking member Stanton, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for having me today.
▶ 0:53:39My name is Adrien Garcia and I am a county commissioner in Harris County, Texas, and I'm here on behalf of the National Association of Counties where I serve as a co-chair of the Intergovernmental Disaster Reform Task Force. Among the many responsibilities entrusted to counties, we are on the front lines of disaster mitigation, response, and recovery. Nearly 900 counties each year receive at least one disaster presidential disaster declaration.
▶ 0:54:07This results in major economic losses, serious effects on communities, and immense pressures on local resources. Following a disaster, local elected officials and emergency managers are the first on the scene and play a key role in recovery and rebuilding efforts so our residents can return to their lives as quickly as possible. As major owners and operators of public infrastructure, counties are uniquely positioned to mitigate the impacts of disasters.
▶ 0:54:37America's 3,069 counties own uh parishes and burrows own 44% of public roads, 38% of the national bridge inventory, over 900 hospitals, and directly support a third of the nation's airports. I'm here today to underscore the county role in strengthening our nation against disasters and to discuss how we can best work together to meet the challenges of today and the demands of the future.
▶ 0:55:07First, FEMA is crucial for communities before, during, and after disasters. That said, inefficiencies in the agency do demand urgent reform. Disaster response, recovery, and mitigation starts local and absolutely ends local. However, these efforts would not be possible without the support from critical federal programs. One such program that counties rely on is FEMA's public assistance program.
▶ 0:55:36PA is crucial for helping communities rebuild after disasters, but the lengthy process to receive reimbursement can delay recovery efforts and hinder our ability to restore critical services post disaster. Last year, Nagel conducted a survey of of its members that concluded that one in five counties longest open PA claim had been in processing between four and six years.
▶ 0:56:03Counties urge Congress to take decisive action to expedite funding for this PA from this PA program, ensuring communities receive the critical resources we need for timely disaster and recovery and rebuilding. Second, removing barriers to funding and resources for underserved and disadvantaged communities is absolutely critical.
▶ 0:56:28requiring the completion of complex and burdensome paperwork by communities who are unfamiliar with the process during the most stressful times of their lives can significantly impede progress when it is most needed. Populations that feel the biggest impact are often our underserved and disadvantaged communities who lack the resources and capacity to complete applications and meet critical deadlines.
▶ 0:56:53Implementing plain language into applications, reducing bureaucratic red tape, and identifying resources available to assist applicants is paramount to improving the overall resilience of our nation. Counties are supportive of bipartisan legislation like the Disaster Survivors Fairness Act and the Disaster Assistance Simplification Act, which would streamline the application process and reduce redundant paperwork.
▶ 0:57:21Finally, counties understand that improving our nation's disaster system relies on a strong federal, state, local partnership. Counties are not merely stakeholders in this conversation. Rather, we are a part of the federal, state, and local partnership of governments that target that that together can work to uh together to share the responsibility of protecting our nation and its residents from disasters.
▶ 0:57:52While disasters are inherently local, counties rely on our state and federal partners for critical disaster recovery tools like funding, human capital, and technical assistance. Rebuilding our communities and making them more resilient is only possible with the support of our federal and state partners.
▶ 0:58:12counties stand ready to work side by side with you to improve our nation's disaster response, recovery, and mitigation capabilities to ensure the health, well-being, and safety of our nation uh and our residents. Chairman Perry, Ranking Member Staten, thank you again for the invitation to discuss this critical issue on behalf of America's counties. This concludes my testimony and I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you, Chair. Thanks a gentlemen, as well as thanking all the members or the witnesses for their testimony.
▶ 0:58:40We now turn to questions for the panel and the chair recognizes himself for the first round of questions. Uh I'm going to start with you, Miss Lauder. I read through a bunch of what you submitted. I'll admit I didn't read through every single bit of it. It's it's voluminous emails and correspondence.
▶ 0:58:58And as the county manager, I'm not I'm not sure maybe you never thought about the mission of FEMA, but it's to coordinate between the federal agencies and of course state and local agencies, but it was never designed to be the command and control and do all the work, right? But that's kind of what's expected of it now.
▶ 0:59:17And and it seems to me as the person that's trying to figure that out, you know, in in the in the aftermath of of this devastating disaster, like you don't have time to figure that out. You're just trying to deliver, right? I I remember the two times we were flooded out of our home. One time we stayed in the in the fire hall before we moved to a a neighbor's house that wasn't affected. Somebody we didn't even know just offered to come take us in. And then the other time was at the township building.
▶ 0:59:48And I'm thinking about it, but it seems to me as I read through your correspondence here, much of your county didn't even exist, right? There was there wasn't any there might not have been a township building, a fire hole, or a neighbor's house to go to. And so I'm just wondering from your experience, I mean, you couldn't get answers even about a federally owned property for which to place temporary housing on. You couldn't get any answers on that, let alone the housing.
▶ 1:00:19If you were going to give everybody here, which I think are very interested in trying to figure out how to make this work, what would be the one message, you know, as a person who has lived through it and experienced it and been frustrated by it and and seen people like you like you described, living in trailers filled with mold and having no prospect whatsoever of anything changing anytime soon.
▶ 1:00:46What would be the one message regarding what FEMA how it would be different in your eyes if it were going to work with at local government we were looking for resources. Um we needed assistance and what we could not find were were how to leverage those resources. The resources that we were offered like TSA were very clearly not suited for my community. And so I think the message that I would have is that number one communication.
▶ 1:01:13um if there's resources being offered, we need to understand what those terms are upfront so that we can even evaluate whether or not they're going to be effective in a community. The second is there has to be some responsiveness. If whenever we identified issues, whenever we identified resources like the federal property, um we had to follow up on that ourselves. We were living a disaster in our own lives.
▶ 1:01:35we were living a disaster with our community and yet we were having to to follow up repeatedly in order to try to get any progress or any answers um or even find out if our requests were being heard anywhere. Um I submitted that property no less than four times in four different ways and still when I got on a call in November to ask um about housing they pulled up a database and none of those requests managed to get into the database. So I think the two messages are that the communication structures have to be robust.
▶ 1:02:06They pro they need to happen before the disaster so that we know who even to call and we also need to know upfront how to use these resources or make those resources more flexible so that whenever we identify what the needs are and how that's going to play out in our community we can use them. Is there any do you have any indication at this point why it took so long for FEMA to even show up? Right. You're like right after this happened.
▶ 1:02:30Obviously everybody knows what's happened but it took days and days and then I think it's my understanding when they finally did show up they were headquarters like 90 miles away which is a fair drive right especially in bad condition. Do you have any indication now what took them so long? I have never been given a reason. I can hypothesize. I think um the fact that we are on the edge of of the disaster was part of it. It's hard to get through the mountains. You don't get places very easily.
▶ 1:02:55Um, the only other thing I can imagine is that our numbers like for a TSA did not look like they were high, which could indicate on a data front point that we didn't need help, but they weren't high because they it wasn't an applicable solution for Transennsylvania County. Okay. I got a lot of questions in a little bit of time here for each one of you. Mr. Guthrie, you uh perfected, I think, or at least honed a a fraud prevention program in your state.
▶ 1:03:20Can you briefly outline how that might be applicable to FEMA because there are huge amount of fraud in the FEMA dollars that are spent and and we'd obviously like that not to be the case. Yeah, thank you Chairman Perry for that question. And in Florida, we knew that there was the propensity to have fraud, waste, and abuse.
▶ 1:03:38And what we did um starting about two years ago is we built a program that we want to get good structured data into our system that helps us get good structured data and it allows us to utilize large language modeling, machine learning and then and to a certain point some generative AI to predict the when we may have a duplicate payment or the payment doesn't actually uh check the box for the contract. In other words, a vendor has charged us more than what they should have.
▶ 1:04:06So again, it focuses from a standpoint of getting the good structure data into the system. And then we use machine learning on the backside to do that. And we are uh detecting just in the recent months, we had three situations for about $600,000 that we uh flagged for potential fraud, waste, or abuse. And then we put eyes on that to then investigate it and correct the anomalies that were in the invoices. And it was just that. It was an anomaly in the invoices where we were charged a different rate when we should have been charged a lower rate.
▶ 1:04:35but it did end up saving taxpayer dollars just in the last three months uh $600,000. I appreciate the response. I'm way over my time, so I'll yield. Uh recognize the uh gentleman from Arizona, ranking member Stanton. Thank you very much. U Mr. Chair, my first question is for uh Mr. Guthrie, uh Florida's executive director for emergency management.
▶ 1:04:57Florida is arguably one of the states most capable of responding disasters on its own, but you do rely on federal assistance from FEMA and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact EMAC system when responding to catastrophic events. At yesterday's cabinet hearing, Secretary Gnome did indicate her desire to eliminate FEMA. The president indicated support for that plan to eliminate FEMA.
▶ 1:05:21from your perspective, how would post- disaster outcomes for Floridaians be impacted if FEMA were Thank you for the question. At the end of the day, we we need federal support. I go back to what you mentioned in your opening statement, sir. Um, federal support, state managed, locally executed. We need to focus on the state managed part.
▶ 1:05:49that has been a part of that that phrase for uh since Brock Long was a FEMA administrator. But we haven't focused on the state managed piece. We keep going back to the federal government. We need to focus more on that state managed piece and actually make sure that we're managing disasters at the state level. We're allowing local levels to execute in a common sense approach while we need federal support.
▶ 1:06:18Now, if that looks like a FEMA of the future, which I think all emergency managers nationwide would agree, FEMA needs to be reformed. That's a task that takes obviously presidential and congressional action to eliminate FEMA. So, we we want to work with the federal government. We want to work with the president. We want to work with the legislature on what that looks like in the future. But to the point, we do need federal support.
▶ 1:06:46Florida is can probably handle 95 to 97% of what we do on a day-to-day basis. But for example, in Hurricane Helena Milton, we needed a million gallons of fuel. We went to FEMA, who went to Department of Defense and the Defense Logistics Agency to meet that need. So again, even a highly capable capacity state like Florida from time to time needs federal support. We appreciate it. Um Mr. Curry.
▶ 1:07:12Uh the federal law is very clear about um qualification requirements for the FEMA uh administrator. Uh the president has named Cameron Hamilton the senior official performing the duties of administrator. In your opinion, does he possess the qualifications that are legally required to run the agency? Well, we've actually been asked to look at this and the legality him serving in that role under the Federal Vacancies Reform Act, which uh GAO has a role in that.
▶ 1:07:41And so we'll we'll do that and have that result uh pretty quickly. But I will say that the um post Katrina emergency management reform act is pretty clear about the requirements for FEMA administrator. It requires two things. One is the person to have significant emergency management experience and the other thing is at least 5 years of of executive experience. So that's that's what the law says. But I want to be very clear that um the ideal state is have a Senate confirmed administrator.
▶ 1:08:09Uh the Senate confirmation process is the process for vetting a candidate's experience and their ability uh to do that job We saw in Katrina just how horrifically wrong can go if you have someone who's the head of FEMA who doesn't have experience in emergency management. It is critical. Uh so we want to get that done as soon as possible.
▶ 1:08:34Miss Curry, in your role at the GAO, you understand the risk of overhauling federal programs without proper consideration. FEMA underwent significant reorganization without proper input from emergency managers before Hurricane Katr Katrina, and that did contribute to those tragic outcomes. What should this administration and this Congress consider to ensure that we don't FEMA's life-saving responsibilities when attempting to reform this critical agency? Uh, thank you, sir. Yeah, like I said in my opening statement, we can't break what's not broken.
▶ 1:09:03And the only people that can tell you that are the our first line emergency managers and responders. Um, there are things that work well in the current system. The problem is you don't hear good news often. Uh, there are things that work. Uh, we want to we want to keep those. We want to fix the things that don't work. The other thing I'll say is we have to fix the root causes. If we just move agencies, rename agencies, rename programs, but don't fix the root causes, none of this is going to change.
▶ 1:09:32We appreciate I wanted to go next to our local elected official, Mr. Garcia. Uh, can you also explain how disaster response in your county would be impacted without access to federal resources or support after a disaster? Ranking member, without access to federal uh resources or funding, our county's disaster response would absolutely be severely compromised.
▶ 1:09:55Local governments simply don't have the financial capacity or staffing to manage large-scale recovery efforts, meaning vital services like debris removal, uh infrastructure repairs, emergency sheltering would be delayed or inaccessible. Federal support is essential uh for ensuring a coordinated and effective response uh allowing us to restore public safety and meet the needs of our residents uh as quickly as possible. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
▶ 1:10:27Thank you. The gentleman yields back and I recognized the gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Easel, for five minutes for questions. That's Eel and I appreciate that. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. Uh Mississippi is no stranger to uh storms most notably as we've talked about Katrina where we lost the lives of over 1300 people and 125 billion in damage.
▶ 1:10:52Uh in 2005 Congress enacted the post Katrina emergency management reform act which reestablished FEMA as a distinct entity within DHS. As we approach the 20-year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, I'm still waiting for FEMA to respond to claims in my district. associated with this devastating storm. It's unacceptable and a perfect example how the federal government has let our people down. I'm proud to have led, co-led, and passed several bills that seek to improve FEMA.
▶ 1:11:23Bills like HR2254, the Don't Penalize Victims Acts, HR 152, the Federal Disaster Assistance Coordination Act, and HR 153, the Post- Disaster Assistance Online Accountability Act. I was thrilled when President Trump recently announced the creation of FEMA review council to evaluate FEMA bureaucracy and disaster response. FEMA has spent 30 billion in disaster aid each of the past three years.
▶ 1:11:50Yet many disaster survivors and taxpayers still lack the resources they need. I've been working closely with FEMA to address outstanding issues in my district and I look forward to seeing how we can improve the process for future disasters because we know they're going to happen. Before I get too far, I want to u uh enter a document from St. Charles Parish, Louisiana, reflecting some of the reforms that we've discussed for the agency. I want to ask uh Mr.
▶ 1:12:20Curry uh without objection. So ordered. Thank you. Uh Mr. Curry, the GAO has done a great job, has done great reports on the problems with risk rating 2.0. Each community across the nation has invested many resources to manage its membership in the NFIP. The primary issue with risk rating 2.0 is a lack of transparency regarding the algorithm.
▶ 1:12:51This results in communities being unable to make decisions to target resiliency projects, plan future growth, formulate effective policies, or simply ensure that they're not wasting resources. Its impact today is felt more than ever. With the rising cost of housing, this policy hides the actual cost of home ownership. Mr. Kirk, could you reflect on the damage and concerns attached to the lack of transparency of risk rating 2.0?
▶ 1:13:21Thank you. FEMA has a huge challenge with the National Flood Insurance Program. Um the idea behind risk rating 2.0 is the right one, which is you want to assess each houses's individual risk to a disaster and not just assume that everybody in an area has the same exact risk. The challenge is is that if your house is at higher risk, your premiums are going to be higher. So they're trying to get the program to the point of solveny or close to solveny because it's never been solvent.
▶ 1:13:52It's $20 billion on debt. And honestly, sir, it it's up to the Congress now to decide what they want this program to be. Do they want it to be an insurance program or do they want it to be a federal disaster assistance program? As long as premiums do not cover the cost of the program, a large portion of the flood insurance program is a disaster aid program. Thank you.
▶ 1:14:16What reforms could resolve the possible damage uh that risk rating 2.0 can have on families and communities in general? Well, I there's a number of different options that have been put out there. for example, uh, state or federal programs to help supplement uh, homeowners of a certain income level or certain, uh, you know, income threshold, just like we do with other programs who can't who are basically going to be priced out of a certain market because they can't afford the flood insurance.
▶ 1:14:45Well, they barely afford the mortgage and then barely afford the flood insurance on top of that. And there's so there's a number of options like that, but unfortunately there's no easy options that uh will drive down the cost. It it's it's going to be very expensive and somebody has to pay for the cost either the the the the taxpayer, the state or the federal government. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:09Uh should some of the procedures within NFIB be standardized and transparent to ensure that communities can effectively use their resources? Absolutely. I mean that that's that's key. Um and and FEMA through its flood mapping project should be very transparent about the the risk of each individual property and um so I mean they have a long way to go in implementing implementing this program and making sure there's transparency. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:39I uh if I may have just another 30 seconds. No objection. in my home uh state of Mississippi and also along the Gulf Coast uh after the hurricane, FEMA just came in there and blanketed uh just about the whole area uh that was flooded and just moved all the flood maps.
▶ 1:15:59uh since then and since I've been in the Congress, I have worked tirelessly trying to get uh some sort of order back in place so that we could uh you know, this is a once- ina-lifetime storm. And it's not happened again. And I just I just got to say that it's been very frustrating. They have the flood maps, but they don't know how to implement them. And we're waiting for those things to get implemented. And that's very frustrating to people who are trying to buy, build, or have a live future on the Mississippi Gulf Coast.
▶ 1:16:27So, uh, with that, I I, uh, if you got any, uh, way that you could tell them to hurry up and get those things adopted, we sure would appreciate it. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. And I recognize the gentle lady from Michigan, McDonald Revit, for five minutes for questions. Thank you very much. I want to start just by thanking uh, Chairman Perry and Ranking Member Stansen for holding this hearing on what seems to be a bipartisan level of frustration.
▶ 1:16:57Uh I represent a community in Michigan uh Midland Michigan that five years ago uh saw uh multiple dams fail after heavy rainfall. In fact, I personally uh ran one of the evacuation centers. It caused massive flooding and water levels reaching as high as 35 ft above normal levels. Thankfully, no one uh died in that, which I actually just think is a miracle.
▶ 1:17:25But it resulted in over $200 million in damages. And not only did it decimate our infrastructure like our roads and bridges, it destroyed homes that families had lived in for generations and small businesses that families had dedicated their entire lo lives to. So here we sit five years later. Miss Lauder, I hear your story and it just resonated so deeply with me.
▶ 1:17:49It is um a continuous struggle, a continuing struggle in order to resolve the uh pieces that um FEMA came in to help. But what we see over and over again like multiple um uh federal programs is that the intent of FEMA and the amazing people who work there is dying under a cumbersome bureaucracy that is so frustrating particularly for local people who don't have
▶ 1:18:19the experience of dealing with big federal bureaucracies and are just at the point of giving up. Our local communities are owed hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is nothing in a federal in a federal budget, but everything in a local budget.
▶ 1:18:33So I do want to just say that I understand the frustration but what I'm not understanding is the suggested remedy which is a suggested uh elimination of FEMA and also the suggestion that this actually can be solved at a local level if states and locals would just budget more appropriately which having been a state senator on the appropriations committee I can tell you states cannot not handle
▶ 1:19:03this just by budgeting uh handling this on their own and in particular when we're simultaneously considering extensive cuts including $880 billion from our Medicaid program. I mean it just it just defies common sense. But I do think we have to do something because we can't tolerate this in my local community still sits there and waits and I hope it doesn't take five years for you. But I hear you Mr.
▶ 1:19:29Curry when you were talking about okay what can we do um we know that block granting is also a very uh difficult solution because most federal block grants again as a state appropriator come with burdens like incredibly complex and burdensome regulations but you said let's address the root causes everything isn't broken but I didn't hear you say what those root causes are and I would love to hear that sure I'll take let me take the grant issue um and so a lot has talked about
▶ 1:19:59recently about switching FEMA to a block grant. I'm not so much just concerned with the name of the grant. A block grant just means theoretically that you provide all the funding upfront and the state manages it instead of the federal government holding the money and doing it out slowly, which is what the FEMA process is. The root cause is is that the process is too complicated and there's too many rules and overlapping requirements and inconsistency for the years that go on with recovery.
▶ 1:20:28Turnover and staffing plays into this too and different different cultural changes at FEMA. So the problem is is that you have an infrastructure project that could take 10 to 15 years to rebuild and all throughout there there's cost changes and you have to go back and forth with the federal government. It's very very confusing.
▶ 1:20:48I think what we're trying to do is we want to come up with something where the federal government still provides the support that the states will never be able to come up with like you said, but it does so in a way that they provide it to the state where there's flexibility, but there's still the appropriate oversight and controls. And that's the balance you're trying to strike. With block granting, you give up some of the the control at the federal level and the oversight, but you give the states more flexibility.
▶ 1:21:14But if you don't design the block of my time, I just want to say in your experience and and I know this is a bit of an unfair question, but have you ever seen a federalto state block grant that did not come with its own set of rules and overlapping requirements? It does, but we have to we have to build it better in this case. So, for example, with the with the community development block grant disaster recovery, one of the challenges with that is is that you try to build the whole program up front and then turn it over to the states and that takes too long.
▶ 1:21:43So, the money doesn't get there quick enough. We have we have to build this system and the rules and requirements up front, get the states up to speed on it, get everyone familiar with the process, build their system so they can manage this amount of money so it can be turned over much quicker. And that's that's very possible to do. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. The gentle lady yields back and I recognize the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Kennedy, for five minutes for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Stanton.
▶ 1:22:13And uh today's hearing is more about more than just about FEMA reform. It's about shifting the center of gravity away from bloated federal bureaucracy and toward capable states that are closest to the people that they serve. In Utah, we know how to do more with less. We invest wisely and build strong partnerships between the state and local governments. That same principle, clear locally led coordination between state and local governments should guide how we approach emergency manage management across the country.
▶ 1:22:40Whether it's wildfires in California, hurricanes in the southeast, or earthquakes and flooding risks in Utah, we must ensure the federal government is a reliable partner, not a bureaucratic bottleneck. FEMA should be empowering states and counties, not burying them under red tape. When agencies grow too large and too distant from the people they serve, they lose the people the ability to act with urgency, efficiency, or local understanding. Emergency management is just one example, but it's a critical one.
▶ 1:23:06I support President Trump's executive order establishing the FEMA review council. We need that toptobottom review, and I look forward to working with the committee to play a leading role in it. I had a few questions for uh we'll we'll start with Mr. Cury and Mr. Guthrie. I we've talked about block grants and both of you have mentioned that in your testimonies. uh can you give me some more specifics about if we were to do something like that? How would you do that without fraud, waste, and abuse, but also uh cut the red tape and allow that money to be used immediately? Let's start with you, Mr. Cury. Yeah, sure.
▶ 1:23:35Well, well, I think there's a misconception that with a block grant that there's no oversight. That you appropriate the money, Congress appropriates the money, and they write a check to the state and it's done. That's that's not how it works. There is uh most block grants the state and the federal government work together to develop very specific rules and requirements and controls and audit processes. It's just more of the money is delivered upfront. So it's going to take some time if you if you develop this into a block grant to to train and build the state's capacities.
▶ 1:24:04Some states like Florida probably it's going to be very quick. Other states it's not. Um other communities it's not. And so, um, it it it's possible to do this, but I also think this needs to be very different than other block grants that that we've created before. Thank you, Mr. Guthrie. Thank you for the question. Um, and it somewhat goes to the previous congresswoman's uh question as well. I'll give you two examples of where we can really speed this up. Number one, environmental historical preservation in the emergency management community.
▶ 1:24:34I have several state directors sitting behind me. That is where projects go to die. It could take four to six years to get that done. Every state has an environmental and historical preservation officer. Why are we duplicating effort on that? Let the state do their job. Let us document the file and put that as a part of the file. We can speed that process up by at least um 90% savings in time. I'll give you another example. The consolidated resource center.
▶ 1:25:04I would move to abolish the consolidated resource center. Again, that is where people send us RFIs, um, numerous RFIs, hundreds of RFIs, requests for information. Again, the state is responsible for managing its grant, whether it's a block grant or if it's a traditional grant, we do that.
▶ 1:25:25But the number of RFIs that come out and one of our individuals from Alabama talked about he literally had to give some type of minute piece of information in a debris removal claim. That that's insane. So the those are two examples of where that's already happening at the state level to uh document those state actions. It should be a part of the file and we move on. Thank you for those suggestions. And Mr.
▶ 1:25:50Garcia, if I could ask you a question about the counties, and I I agree with the potency of counties, and I I think that was a big part of your statement. The question that I had is is the hierarchy that you would consider associated with counties because the governor is generally in charge of the state. The idea of the federal government, for example, giving grants to a county directly and subverting the role of the governor.
▶ 1:26:14I'm curious how you would if you were to see federal funds flowing, would you have those funds go directly to counties or would you have them go to the governor and subsequently to the counties? What is your thought about that? Well, some counties have capacity like Harris County. We're very fortunate in that regard, but not everybody does. And so, we absolutely need to find ways to work with both entities where you work through the states in some regards.
▶ 1:26:41Um but for example in um in places like um um like Oregon. Oregon is a a state that has experienced some delays in reimbursements for their recovery process. But uh places like uh Hamilton County has had to suspend current bids because they're just struggling with some of that process. But I think you find ways to work both with the counties and the states.
▶ 1:27:11uh who have capacity and some who struggle with it. Thank you very much for that answer, Mr. Chair. I'm committed to helping bring common sense and efficiency to this program. It's an essential program, but I think there's better ways that we can do it. And thank you to the witnesses for their willingness to come and educate us about this. With that, I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back and I recognize the gentleoman from Nevada, Miss Titus, for five minutes for questions. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:27:35Uh earlier the ranking member of the full committee mentioned and I appreciated it the disaster survivor fairness act that I had introduced with my colleague from North Carolina, Representative Edwards, Republican. Uh this would streamline federal assistance for dis disaster victims and expand FEMA's authority to help make homes more resilient for future disasters. I'm pleased that Nico endorsed this legislation.
▶ 1:28:03It was a pleasure speaking to you, Commissioner Garcia, and other members of NAKO about this topic earlier. Uh, in your testimony, you urged federal policymakers to remove barriers to funding and resources for underserved and disadvantaged communities. How would creating a universal application for individual disaster assistance help uh in that effort that you mentioned? Thank you for the question.
▶ 1:28:32that the the reality is that um the making sure that the barriers are removed as I mentioned in my in my testimony is very very important. It's um it is critical that we make it plain language uh as uh as suggested in the various in the two pieces of legislation that I mentioned the survivors and simplification act. Um those speak to the challenges that many of our underserved and disadvantaged communities struggle with.
▶ 1:29:05Okay. Well, thank you for that. I'm I appreciate the support. I was looking for a little more detail of how to be helpful, but that that's good enough. Uh I represent Las Vegas and we don't have a lot of hurricanes in Las Vegas except, you know, we could probably make one if we decided that would be a tourist attraction. But uh anyway, one of the weather hazards that we do have is extreme heat. And this past year, we had the hottest day ever in Las Vegas, 120 degrees.
▶ 1:29:35And statistics from the National Weather Service show that heat kills more people than hurricanes, floods, and tornadoes combined in any given year. There were over 520 heat related fatalities in Clark County last year alone.
▶ 1:29:51So, I have an extreme weather and heat response modernization act so FEMA can more aggressively uh include extreme temperatures, especially heat in its disaster planning and have the resources to deal with it. I wonder if all three of you would or all four of you would take a minute just to talk about how extreme heat is impacting the communities you serve and how this would be helpful. May we start, Mr. Curry? Sure.
▶ 1:30:18Yeah, I'm familiar with the statistic you mentioned too that they do kill heat kills more people than all the other disasters combined. The challenge right now for FEMA is the whole system relies on quantifying damage to figure out if they provide help and heat. It is a very difficult thing to quantify in their current system. I I agree with you that there's no better thing to quantify in terms of an impact than loss of life.
▶ 1:30:44Um, but right now their their declaration process relies on damage to infrastructure and it's very hard to show acute damage to infrastructure from heat. And so that's one of the reasons that you don't see more disaster declarations. So I think we're going to have to look at that if if we're going to change it. Kind of hard to say when it starts and when it stops, you know, like unlike a storm or something. Yeah. And it and it does damage infrastructure. I mean, you know, it damages uh roads, bridges.
▶ 1:31:10I mean it it's just harder to quantify it acutely because it happens like you said over a long period of time. Railroads. Anybody We do have extreme heat situations inside of uh southeast Florida, specifically Miami, but this is a great example of the federally supported state managed, locally executed. In southeast Florida, they plan for as a part of their hazards they respond to on a local level and they do that on a day-to-day basis when we have those issues. If they need assistance from the state, they ask for assistance from the state.
▶ 1:31:40So, the system does work in Florida with cooling cooling stations and things like that. Yes, sir. But I think the chairman mentioned it wasn't a good idea to plant trees to offset heat islands. I couldn't disagree more with that. But anyway, so locally, you're doing some things locally, southeast Florida, Southwest Florida, um those counties approach it differently, but they are locally executing on that situation. Anybody else?
▶ 1:32:07Real quick, I I do want to suggest or offer that in my precinct, just as an example, I have a public works department. Uh we absolutely and my staff told me that uh the heat damage uh can be identified in various pieces of infrastructure. Um but as it was stated, it's very difficult to quantify.
▶ 1:32:28Uh but we do know that extreme heat is an issue for many of our NAKO members and we do have data that we can pass along to you to uh help uh you know craft some thoughts around that issue. That'd be great. I know our ranking member represents Phoenix area and reshare some of these common problems. So that'd be very helpful. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. The gentle lady yields back and I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Kylie, for five minutes for questions. Good morning. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:32:56Guthrie, I uh commend the work you've done in Florida to strengthen your state's uh capacity to respond to disasters uh quickly and effectively uh and to thereby uh mitigate and and minimize uh the threat to life uh and property. Uh unfortunately, my own state of California has not been quite so forwardlooking uh in terms of uh its disaster response capabilities.
▶ 1:33:21Uh and this was put on shocking display for the whole world uh with the recent tragic catastrophic fires in Los Angeles as we bore witness to uh an empty reservoir to uh fire hydrants that wouldn't uh release water uh and other basic failures of preparedness for which the residents of Los Angeles are now paying uh such a high price.
▶ 1:33:45Uh so do you have uh number one uh some best practices that you might share uh with our state for how it can do better in the future and number two uh thoughts on how the ongoing effort to reform FEMA might actually uh itself help to spread those sort of practices. Thank you Congressman for the question. First and foremost in Florida we do not respond based on whether or not we're going to get federally reimbursed.
▶ 1:34:11the governor of the state of Florida, the legislature support emergency management holistically and they expect us to respond not worrying about if we're going to get um reimbursed or not. Unfortunately, not every state, every city or county has that option. They have to wait to respond to see if they're going to meet a threshold or so on to to to seek FEMA reimbursement.
▶ 1:34:31I think another thing that was very very obvious to me in that particular disaster is um you had the local officials such as the fire chief, sheriff and things of that nature but nowhere on that dis or that podium did you see the emergency manager. They were treating it as in my opinion sir they were treating it as still a fire. They were treating it still as a traffic issue.
▶ 1:34:55They had a much more complex issue and I know that Nancy, the the California state director was involved, but again, emergency management was not there on the day. The Los Angeles County emergency management director was buried in the back. I never saw the city of Los Angeles emergency management director. And this is more of a systemic problem across the uh country in that what is emergency management?
▶ 1:35:19That's something our own National Emergency Managers Association is grappling with and we're going to try to help define for Congress and others in the future is what is emergency management that we could all agree that this is what emergency management does. But I think those are some of the issues as far as FEMA goes. I know that the regional administrator Bob Fitton was there um and he was heavily involved uh during that time frame and the Hurst fire that you that you speak of. Um FEMA was present.
▶ 1:35:48Uh however again um state managed getting it to the point where you can get that state involvement very early on working with your local emergency managers to push funding down start doing the things for example in the Hurst fire they got paralyzed the attorneys paralyzed that response worried about the environmental hazard that was going on to clean up the debris. We deal with that every single day across this country. We know what to do.
▶ 1:36:17Let us separate it. Let us put it in the appropriate landfill, tier 1, 2, or three, based on the hazardous material, and let us move forward. Do not stop the operation because there's hazardous material. We deal with that every single day. Thank you. Yeah, very uh that's a a great insight. And I should mention the individuals you mentioned, Mr. Fenton, Miss Ward, uh we've worked well with my office. It's a clearly a systemic issue here that that we need to uh reform. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:36:41Curry, um, a question I had for you is that, uh, the, uh, grants, some of the grants that FEMA makes available for sort of pre, uh, disaster efforts, like the brick grants, the PDM grants, uh, they don't allow for, uh, pre- disaster water infrastructure for fire suppression to be, uh, an eligible use. So, uh, you know, fire hydrants, upgrading lines, uh, tanks, uh, that would actually sort of be critical in some cases uh, for immediate response.
▶ 1:37:10And this is important for several communities I represent that are at high fire risk such as uh the Tahoe basin. So, and in fact the CER fire which is 2021, one of the factors that was cited for why it didn't ultimately engulf communities uh in South Tahoe uh was that there was the availability of water infrastructure for fire suppression. So, why is it that that's not an eligible use and is that something you think we ought to change? Yeah.
▶ 1:37:34What I found over the years is that a lot of times when when uh people say it's not eligible under FEMA, it's just because it was not approved. There's not a law or requirement that says they can't do it. Um all these mitigation programs rely on the state or the local government to provide a justification or a benefit cost analysis to FEMA and then FEMA decides based on every all the other project requests it's getting if it meets their threshold. And then in that case, they didn't.
▶ 1:38:02It's not that it's not allowed, it's just that, and this is a very common problem with these mitigation issues. Um, these are very complicated projects and FEMA often times the paperwork required to get the approvals and get is is just extremely difficult. And for if you're a large county or a large state with the capacity to do that, then you might have the resources to put that together.
▶ 1:38:27if you're a smaller county or a tribe or something like that, you you don't have the resources to put a good justification together, so you don't get the funding. I I know we're a little over time here, but just to clarify, are you saying that for PDM and BR grants that is an eligible use? It's just a matter of where the threshold is set or is Well, I'll go back. I'll go back and check on on on the requirement.
▶ 1:38:45I'm just saying that what I found is a lot of times when it's deemed in ineligible or it's not approved, it's because FEMA it doesn't meet some sort of costbenefit threshold as opposed to that specific kind of project not being able to be approved. It's just they haven't demonstrated that the benefits are going to uh exceed the cost. Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back and I recognize the gentleoman from California, Miss Freriedman, for five minutes for questions. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:39:14And I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony being here. You know, I have to say that it's hard as a Los Angeles uh Congress member sometimes to hear Los Angeles at the time when it's reeling from disasters and when victims are still living in hotels somehow uh seeming to be blamed for their own disaster. Uh I really appreciate Mr. Guthri's response to uh Mr. Kylie's question about what California could do better because it is important that we do evaluate our response to disaster.
▶ 1:39:43uh do audits to make sure that we improve. And so your very good suggestions about disaster management are something that I I'm very interested in and I appreciate your you're saying them. I will I do feel that I have to respond a bit about the idea that somehow these fires were caused because of uh not having pressure in hydrants or reservoirs being empty.
▶ 1:40:04Yes, a reservoir was down for repair and we should always look at how what our timetables are and fire hydrants were not designed to put out a thousand fires in a residential neighborhood simultaneously. There's not a fire system in this country that would be able to function uh adequately under those kinds of conditions.
▶ 1:40:24But due to what's happening with climate change and changing conditions, we are going to have to look at our infrastructure and make investments to counter conditions that this country has never seen. Uh I grew up in Florida and my entire childhood I believe there were two hurricanes my whole childhood and now we see multiple hurricanes every single year. So we have extreme weather events happening around this country and we've got to make investments in our infrastructure and our emergency response to counter that.
▶ 1:40:53And we can't pretend that it's not because of climate change as well. And so efforts that we can make in this body to slow that change down are also going to help save lives. So I als you know I've been working on fire issues for many many years in the California legislature.
▶ 1:41:11California has invested hundreds of millions of dollars over the past several years, year after year, to beef up our response, to add more resources for fighting fires, for fire resiliency. Um, and we saw those resources deployed in these fires with hundreds and hundreds of firefighters on the line.
▶ 1:41:32uh more air response than we've ever seen in this nation's history to where really hurricane winds driving embers in a time of year that normally is wet and with record uh dryness instead. And we're going to unfortunately have to keep putting those resources on the ground. Now, I've introduced my first two bills around supporting wildfire victims with the Don't Penalize Victims Act, which would ensure that charitable donations are not used to unfairly penalize victims of natural disasters.
▶ 1:42:02I appreciate the members of this committee to making that a bipartisan bill. We also have introduced the Stop Disaster Price Gouching Act to stop price gouging around this country after natural disasters. I also believe in holding FEMA accountable. Um, we have had a lot of concerns in Los Angeles around air quality, soil and water pollution because of these disasters.
▶ 1:42:25And I would love to see FEMA doing more monitoring on a regular basis so that the people in Los Angeles know whether or not they need to take precautions if they send their kids to school in Pasadena or if their water has been contaminated or whether or not they can plant things in their garden if they're worried that their soils become contaminated. We haven't seen FEMA take that seriously and I would like to see that happen. I I do have a quick resp uh question about disaster aid and we've heard a little talk about that.
▶ 1:42:54Uh but you know, unfortunately, this administration has said that they want to hold Californians accountable and that they I think want to punish the people of California and uh and not for anything about their response, but just because this administration doesn't like their policies around things like voting rights or around our commitment to diversity. So, I have a simple yes or no question.
▶ 1:43:16Um for Miss Miss Lauder, when Hurricane Helen hit North Carolina last year, did President Biden condition disaster aid against major policy changes in your in that state? It was a yes or no question. No. Thank you. Uh Mr. Guthrie, when Hurricane Milton hit Florida last year, did President Biden condition disaster aid on the people of No. Thank you. I appreciate that and I would hope that this administration does not play games with people's lives.
▶ 1:43:45Lastly, I want to act about ask about uh staffing. You know, FEMA's been on the ground uh in Los Angeles helping people and they're very grateful that there are FEMA officials there. I'm very worried about the mass layoffs that we are seeing to public employees and I've had people in Los Angeles say my when I show up to that office, are there going to be enough people there to help me?
▶ 1:44:05Uh, I want to know whether you think workplace cuts are going to make it easier or harder for people after disaster to to get a live person on the phone or someone to sit in front of them and help them out with whatever issue they have. I'll start with Mr. Garcia. I think absolutely workforce uh depletions do um bring challenges.
▶ 1:44:26local communities and no county members um need in many regards that human capital uh that brings that technical assistance that helps to get the funding uh necessary to help those communities recover and rebuild. So we do need the people behind all the other uh federal guidelines and framework. Thank you. Mr. Curry, would you like to respond? Uh it's not going to help. Um that's my my easy answer.
▶ 1:44:56You know, FEMA will always marshall the resources towards response and the disasters that have just happened. What the cuts do is it affects the disasters that happened six months ago, a year ago, six years ago. So, it's it's a cumulative effect because of how many disasters they're they're dealing with. Thank you. And I yield back. Thank you. The gentle lady yields back and I recognize myself for five minutes for questions. Uh, some of my professional background lends a voice to this topic.
▶ 1:45:23In my previous life, I worked in the heavy highway construction and my family company partnered with states and local communities on all efforts like rebuilding Interstate I95 after the tragic collapse. Uh we also worked in Fort Meyers after Hurricane Ian rebuilding power distribution systems where I saw firsthand the dev the devastation and how locally executed state managed and federally supported programs could be exceptionally beneficial. I've also seen how bureaucratic red tape can impede disaster reliefs.
▶ 1:45:50During COVID, FEMA offered grants to hospitals to address challenges like finding adequate PPE and medical supplies as well as address workforce shortages. Even though the public health emergency ended nearly two years ago, Pennsylvania hospitals are still waiting on $690 million in grant applications. In September of 2023, Lacawana and Luzern counties in my district experienced historic flooding. Our state emergency agency estimated the damage to be 25 million, including the loss of lives.
▶ 1:46:17In April of 2024, FEMA denied the state's request for major disaster declaration. As GAO points out, there are more than 30 federal entities involved in disaster recovery. This was a clear sign to Pennsylvania that we can't always count on the support of FEMA for disaster relief. Which brings me to my questions on how states can best prepare for deliver relief before, during, and after disasters. So my first question for Mr.
▶ 1:46:40Guthrie, in your written testimony, you discussed Florida's Department of Emergency Management implementing emergency standby contracts as part of your proactive disaster management strategy. How can states replicate this practice to have dedicated vendors on standby ready to deploy for various types of natural disasters that states can experience? Thank you for the question, sir. It's very easy to do. It's these are zero dollar contingency contracts put in place where we already know who the biders are for.
▶ 1:47:07One of the issues with FEMA is when you need a, for instance, a direct housing program, they have to then go to contracting right then and there. We know we're going to need direct housing all over this country. We should have that already done so that that speeds that process up by months. Uh we've done that in Florida. I'll make available as as I've already told my uh partners from other states.
▶ 1:47:27I'll make all of our contracts available as a starting point to take the scope of work, copy and paste it, put it into their terms and conditions and fast forward that methodology for any state, any city or any county that wants to do that. Sir, so not all disasters can be predicted. What are some best practices Florida uses to have flexibility with these contracts to ensure adequate response from vendors while protecting taxpayer money? So, I I have some of the best attorneys in the world.
▶ 1:47:54uh they always get to a yes and what they allow us to do is they they advise me of risk where we may be getting outside the four corners of a document or they'll get me to a yes where I can stay within the four corners of the document so that I don't have to do another emergency procurement to get into the four corners of the document and for those that are attorneys understand what I'm saying there but that is one way having a good attorney that knows their job which is to advise the principal on risk versus reward sometimes We have to take
▶ 1:48:24the risk and knowing the consequences of that ahead of time. It's always good to have a good attorney for that. Uh Mr. Guthrie, Miss Ler, and Mr. Garcia, when communities suffer from disasters, it can also be an opportunity to build back stronger, more resilient infrastructure, but oftentimes we see 21st century communities being rebuilt with 20th century infrastructure.
▶ 1:48:44How have your respective states and counties engaged in long-term planning to ensure rebuilt infrastructure is more resilient, more secure, and incorporates the latest in digital technologies and digital infrastructure? Mr. Garcia, Honorable Garcia, thank you. Um, in Harris County, we are absolutely putting uh the federal resources that we've been fortunate to receive into resilient uh initiatives.
▶ 1:49:10Uh, for example, in Harris County, we received uh 51 million to help with the buyout program to take people out of uh floodprone areas. And we're doing a whole lot more to make sure that resilience is at the top of the our work We're interested in any way that we can improve for the future.
▶ 1:49:31I think one of the the things that has to be taken into account though is that whenever we receive grants or we receive support from federal or state agencies if there if there were restrictions around that that make it harder for us to make decisions and and make those investments then it it becomes counterproductive. Sir U we have done a comprehensive reform on this. Uh we have come out with Florida legislation that preempts cities and counties from u doing bureaucratic things when it comes to permitting. That's one thing that we've done.
▶ 1:49:58We've worked with the Florida Alliance for Safe Homes and the National Build Strong Coalition for ensuring we have good building codes. We have the best building code in the United States and build strong building codes do work. Um, you can see that all up and down our coastline. Those are just a couple of examples that we have done where we have been able to do this much faster. Thank you for the testimony and and your time. And I yield back and I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Garindi, for five minutes for questions. Uh, thank you very much. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:50:28Chairman, and thank you for the issues that you're raising. I'd like to uh just pick up on what Miss Freriedman was uh referring to earlier and make sure that we fully understand where we are with um requirements in order to receive FEMA assistance. Um Mr.
▶ 1:50:48Curry, is there any example in the past where a FEMA assistance program, disaster assistance, was conditioned on in any number in any way? Are you familiar with any of that? Uh, I'm not familiar. The only thing I would be familiar with is if it's conditioned on using that for resilience purposes for for building back better than it was before. I do want to come to that. Uh, Mr. Guthrie, you answered no to the question that M. Freriedman raised about conditions.
▶ 1:51:18Is it your view that there should be conditions for the emer for the emergency assistance being available uh to a disaster area? Should there be preconditions? There there should not be preconditions. However, again to the mitigation piece, um benefit cost analysis. Should we be applying a BCA to a situation where we want a house out of the flood plane, we want to build a house stronger?
▶ 1:51:48Just because we meet a number, does that make sense? I don't think so. So, I think there should be some preconditions to some programs that say we should wave this or we should make this stronger. Fair enough. And I would appreciate your uh coming back with the specifics that you're referring to. Uh certainly flood we've been in and out of that for the 15 years I've been here and yes we're making some progress.
▶ 1:52:12Um the other uh area that I want to go to deals with uh the GAO report you had 60 recommendations. Uh in the GAO report uh it would seem to me that this committee would be its time would be very usefully spent going through those. Mr. Curry, in your testimony, you highlighted, I think, four specific areas.
▶ 1:52:42I'd like you to uh revisit those in the next minute or so. The four priorities that are on your mind for the legislative policy changes that this committee should spend time on, that you believe we should spend time. Yeah. Um those 60 wrecks cut across four areas as you said. First is streamlining the federal disaster recovery process because it's fragmented. Mhm. The next is fragmented among multiple agencies. Exactly. 30 agencies to be sure.
▶ 1:53:10Um better delivering surv uh disaster aid to survivors. Making that easier for individual survivors. Reforming the FEMA workforce is number three. And then number four is uh using our resilience dollars and making resilience programs easier to navigate for state and local governments. All right. uh and uh in each of those areas you had specific ways in which the improvements could be accomplished that is legislative. Yeah, absolutely.
▶ 1:53:40Well, you know, actually two years ago before the reform discussions even started, we recommended that Congress set up its own commission to look at disaster recovery because we were so frustrated that the agencies for years we were making recommendations, they weren't implementing them and also this issue cuts across so many committees of jurisdiction. So um it is rare that we would recommend something like that but we thought the problem was large enough that it it was warranted. Okay.
▶ 1:54:07Uh well you've given me direction how I should spend my time and hopefully the committee would similarly spend time at on the details of each of these streamlining multiple federal agencies. Uh maybe eliminate or at least change the way in which they presumably should work together. individual assistance programs. Could you be a little more specific about that?
▶ 1:54:33Well, changing our aid programs to the individual survivor from being government centric to customer centric. And what I mean by that is right now the survivor has to extract the money out of the federal government through a lengthy frustrating process. And because of that, they don't get everything they could possibly get. Thank you, Mr. Guthrie. You're nodding your head. and the rest of you would think this is something we ought to deal with. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:55:00I mean, the the mere fact that a homeowner may have to wait four or five or six years to get back to where they need to be. What we want, all of us want is that homeowner back on their property in their home. Yeah. I'm almost out of time. for the four of you, if you could um present to the committee and certainly to to me and my colleagues uh the specific kinds of reform that you think are most necessary on the individual assistance on the workforce.
▶ 1:55:25We've already talked about the current reductions in workforce uh and there's been a discussion on that. With regard to resiliency, uh FEMA does have a bit of a problem in that build back better is not in their lexicon or at least in the um regulations that they administer. So, uh we need to be aware that we need to change and encourage FEMA to look to resiliency that is really do build back better. More details.
▶ 1:55:55I'm out of time. Thank you very much, gentlemen and lady. Thank you. Thank you. The gentleman yields back and I recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Ander, for five minutes for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Um, Mr. Curry, the GAO has conducted numerous audits of FEMA's disaster relief spending.
▶ 1:56:17Has your office identified instances where FEMA funds have been used to provide aid to illegal immigrants, whether it be uh housing assistance or otherwise. and could you provide examples? Uh yes, we did a report year or two ago.
▶ 1:56:34I'll have to get back to you on the specifics on the emergency food and shelter program which um as you know, Congress authorized that program for FEMA to provide assistance to to cities uh to to help support the influx of uh of migrants. Okay. And that was do you recall when Congress authorized that program? It was in the last Congress, but I have I have to have to get back to you on the Was 118. Okay. Okay.
▶ 1:57:02Um, you know, given given FEMA's mission to assist American citizens and legal residents, are there oversight mechanisms currently in place to ensure that funds are are used appropriately for disaster recovery as opposed to being diverted to other uses? Uh, yes sir.
▶ 1:57:21I mean the disaster relief fund I is closely monitored and there are many controls over the over the payments that come out of that and go to the states and it's not just at the federal level. FEMA has its own controls but then it goes to the states like Mr. Guthri state they have their own controls before it goes down to the local level too. So it's it's a very highly overseen pot of Thank you. And uh Ms. uh laughter.
▶ 1:57:51As a county official, have you um encountered concerns about residents um about FEMA's aid distribution uh inconsistent, influenced by non-d disaster factors, perhaps political We have not seen that. Um we have seen frustration from our survivors of of being able to access the the funds that they should be able to access and difficulty in getting any answers.
▶ 1:58:21Um the 800 number that a lot of our survivors were referred to for a long time uh could not be u connected. So they they really expressed a lot of the frustration around those components. Got it. So, in your testimony, you also stated that when a when a widespread disaster occurs, there must be a system in place to support response and recovery because local governments do not have the capacity to maintain the ability to handle a response at that scale during non-response times.
▶ 1:58:50Um, based on your experience with Hurricane Helen, what what role do you think the federal government should pay play versus the state governments and perhaps the local governments? I I think they both need to play a role and at the end of the day at the local government level we just need a system that works.
▶ 1:59:11Is what do you think can be done to to communi to improve communication between FEMA employees and the the state and local officials involved in disaster What we experienced was a lot of silos where a we could ask a qu a single question in uh to one worker. They did not even know themselves how to get an answer to a question that was outside of their training or outside of their silo. So communication is a huge component in training.
▶ 1:59:42Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back and I recognize the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Figures, for five minutes for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Frank King for uh for hosting this hearing and for all of the witnesses being here. I want to start by uh recognizing Alabama's uh director of emergency management, Jeff Smitherman, uh who was in the audience with us and um and also thank you for your near 30 years of service to this nation's military. So, thank you and thank you for being here and thank you for what you do in the state.
▶ 2:00:12Our state was uh just hit by a round of thunderstorms and your office kept us a breast of what was going on and and kept us well prepared. Fortunately, uh well, I guess both fortunately and for unfortunately, um uh the damage did not rise to a level of a federal uh or at least that's my understanding as of this morning that it will not likely rise to the level of a federal emergency, but yet um some rural areas did take hits and there were some losses uh some lives lost in that storm.
▶ 2:00:38Um, Miss Laughter, I'm going to do something that I don't think you've probably gotten in this process, and that is I I believe it was Maya Angelo, um, who once said that people, they don't remember everything about you, but they will certainly remember how you made them feel. Um, it sounds like FEMA didn't make you and your community feel very good. And so on behalf of all of us, I was not in Congress at the time.
▶ 2:01:03Um, but on behalf of everybody on this committee and everybody that serves in federal government, I want to say that I am sorry. Um, because our government should be there for our people. Um, and I know you guys have experienced that in Florida as well. So, I want to apologize on behalf of all of us and and commit to to to doing better and using my position here to make sure that we're not making other communities uh feel the way uh that you felt.
▶ 2:01:28Um, and I mean that as a as a kid that was born in Hurricane Alley, um, where names like Aaron and Opel and Danny and Georgees and Katrina and Ivan, they mean a little bit something different, uh, to me. Um, hell, I was literally born during a hurricane in September of 1985, Hurricane Elena. Um, so I know a little bit about FEMA. I know a little bit about communities that need their u their recovery, uh, need their help. But we needed to be efficient and we needed uh to be quick and we needed to be effective.
▶ 2:01:59Uh and so I you know I want to start uh at least my question first question is look it it seems that this problem is bigger than just FEMA. Um I mentioned you've mentioned 30 agencies being involved in this process. Um so how by fixing FEMA are we resolving the entire problem or is there a broader scope of inquiry that we need to be addressing these efforts on? And we can just go down go down the road. Mr. Yes.
▶ 2:02:24Um, unfortunately, FEMA is the face of response and recovery for the federal government, but when you look at the funding, it's spread all over the federal government. And each of those agencies has their own rules, programs, requirements, and time frames. And so, when those all come together, it creates a very confusing system and process if you're a state or local emergency Guthrie, thank you, Congressman.
▶ 2:02:49You know, I I would say yes, we need a comprehensive review of the scope, mission, and structure of FEMA, but I would even say take that to the macro. We need a comprehensive review of the scope, mission, and structure of every agency that is a part of the federal family that responds to disasters. Because again, FEMA is a coordinating element. They're not the command and control ele. They're the coordinating element. But when you have, if you're your fisheries, aquaculture, you got to go through I believe it's the Department of Commerce. If you're in agriculture, you go through the US Department of Agriculture.
▶ 2:03:18If you got something that's on a FHWA roadway, you're going through DOT. That's at the public level. Imagine if you're an individual that's, you know, dependent on section 8 housing, you're going through HUD. If you're with DCF, you're going through maybe another HHS agency. We have got to figure out again comprehensive review of the scope, mission, and structure of the federal family to streamline that into one single application, whether it's for public sector or individual assistance sector. We've got to get that.
▶ 2:03:45I don't want to cut you off, but I want to get Miss Laugh because I want to get uh one more question in for Mr. Garcia. I agree. I think there it is more complicated than just FEMA. Uh we have an example right now of private property debris removal. We have a farmer that has 300 bales of spoiled hay from the flood and he cannot access the private property debris removal because he falls under USDA and so and he also cannot get direction from the same agency of of how to access USDA in order to get relief. Um he just needs help.
▶ 2:04:13Right, Miss with uh so many agencies involved, it does cause confusion uh or would cause confusion. So, uh and at at all levels for the local uh community as well as the residents at uh at heart. So, comprehensive review absolutely is necessary. All right. And then, Mr. Garcia, just for you, you mentioned in your opening testimony, you mentioned about underserved and disadvantaged communities, and that particularly resonates with me. I'm in a very poor district.
▶ 2:04:41uh for the most part individual median income is um just around $30,000. So these are people that can't afford to rebuild on their own. So my question for you is in those communities that have been hit by storms, particularly hurricanes, tornadoes, where we see those blue tarps go on those roofs, we go back too often and those blue tarps are still there years later, in fact sometimes decades later. Um how can we better streamline resources to get into those those Thank you.
▶ 2:05:08And uh I I will tell you that uh streamlining the process is absolutely critical. As I mentioned, both the um the legislation that is being proposed, disaster survivors and the simplification act. Uh all those things are going to help us remove the barriers uh that the communities could face. And so we need the support by FEMA. So staff shortages at FEMA do not help us move forward.
▶ 2:05:36All of this is uh important for us to address. So, you know, simplification, plain language, uh universal portals, those things are absolutely helpful to get the resources where they're needed. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the overage. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. Are there further questions from any members of the subcommittee who have not been recognized? Seeing none, that concludes our hearing for today. I would like to thank each of the witnesses for your testimony. The subcommittee stands