▶ 0:00:10the subcommittee on Europe will come to order purpose of this hearing is to discuss the subcommittee's areas of jurisdiction for State Department reauthorization which includes the Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs the Bureau of Arms Control deterrence and stability and the Bureau of International Security and nonproliferation I now recognize myself for an opening statement I want to begin by welcome welcoming both members and witnesses
▶ 0:00:41to the subcommittee on Europe's first hearing on State Department reauthorization under the leadership of chairman Mast each subcommittee has been assigned different bureaus from across the state department in order to conduct oversight explore potential reforms and to ultimately authorize the bureaus into law it has been a while since reauthorization was accomplished and I look forward to working with colleagues on both sides of the aisle as we move
▶ 0:01:11through this important process it is essential that Congress takes up its responsibility to authorize a state department that is fully able to execute the mission of making the United States a safer stronger and more prosperous country as this is our first hearing on this subject I'm going to provide a brief introduction to the state department bureaus this subcommittee will be overseeing in the 119th Congress
▶ 0:01:41the Bureau of Arms Control deterrence and stability also known as ads is responsible for diplomatic efforts to increase stability reduce the risk of unintentional escalation and prevent conflict this includes promoting the stability and control of emerging military Technologies including Ai and Quantum Computing and upholding bans on chemical and biological weapons ads also leads
▶ 0:02:12negotiations on nuclear arms control and represents the United States in multilateral forums addressing wnd challenges originally created as a bureau of verification and compliance in 1999 the bureau's position of assistant secretary of state is authorized in statue in only that one position next we have the Bureau of International Security and nonproliferation or ins Isn excuse me which is the mission of preventing
▶ 0:02:42the spread of wmd Delivery Systems and advanced con uh Conventional Weapons capability additionally Isn Works to protect us critical in emerging technology and promotes the peaceful uses of nuclear energy Science and Technology the bureau was formed in 2005 by then Secretary of State condalisa rice through an agency reorganization effort that combined the Bureau of nonproliferation and the Bureau of arms control
▶ 0:03:13the Bureau of International Security and nonproliferation is currently not authorized in statute by Congress the Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs or EU are for short is responsible for developing and implementing US foreign policy in Europe and Eurasia the bureau promotes us interest in the region on issues such as International Security NATO cooperation with the European Union and other Regional organizations support for democracy human rights Civil Society economic prosperity
▶ 0:03:43nonproliferation and counterterrorism one of the key missions of the bureau is the planning coordination and delivery of of assistance to the region as members of Congress it is our duty to ensure that every tax tax dollar spent abroad is achieving us strategic obje Ives like Isn The Bureau for European and EUR Asian Affairs is not authorized in statute finally I want to note that the subcommittee also has jurisdiction over the Bureau of cyberspace and dig digital policy
▶ 0:04:13as well as the E export import bank but these will not be the subject of today's hearing one of the three bureaus we are discussing today only one is explicitly authorized and that only partially without clear and concise instruction from Congress to a state reauthorization the legislative branch of government invites the executive to have broad powers to shape the structures personel and mission of agencies it is my belief that a stronger state department requires clear
▶ 0:04:44legislative guidance from the Congress as the committee moves through this reauthorization process the experience and insights from our Witnesses today will help guide us in working to build a more efficient and effective State Department I look forward to hearing your testimony and recommendations the chair now recognizes the ranking member of the gentleman from Massachusetts Mr keading for any statement he may have thank you chairman s and thank you for our Witnesses being here today the arms control uh nonproliferation
▶ 0:05:14the US foreign assistance to uh Europe has been at the heart of us-led World Order since the end of the second World War beginning with President Truman in 1948 uh the Marshall Plan brought more than $1 13 billion in invest ments to European economies provided the US with significant influence in Europe and solidified the transatlantic Alliance that we all benefit from today also born out of the Triumph of the second world war a modern-day arms control
▶ 0:05:44and nonproliferation uh regimen that's enabled the United States and its adversaries such as the then Soviet Union to work together and reduce the risk posed by nuclear weapons I remember a time where every American feared for their lives during the Cold War and literally uh when I had a neighbor a couple of streets over who built a bomb shelter in his yard uh the Bureau of International Security and nonproliferation as well as the Bureau of Arms Control deterrence and stability are
▶ 0:06:14critical to ensuring Americans Never Again live with this fear but we didn't come here today to discuss history we came here today to talk about the future the future of Arms Control International Security and foreign assistance to Europe Europe the Trump Administration has said it's pursuing a foreign assistance agenda to make America stronger safer and more prosperous ostensibly this includes countering the malign influence of Russia and China our foreign assistance to Europe does
▶ 0:06:45that in Europe countries like Maldova Georgia Kosovo and Armenia are seeking greater US economic cooperation and assistance in bolstering uh Democratic efforts in those areas in Ukraine the United States has rebuilt Ukraine's energy grid following the Russian attacks allowing Ukraine to repel them on the battlefield sadly uh some of those efforts cut uh with the cuts to usaid yet while the Trump Administration claims to be putting America first it's actually seeding
▶ 0:07:15territory and influence literally in Ukraine and figuratively throughout the European continent to Russia and increasingly to China if the Trump Administration was serious about pursuing its stated goals of making America stronger safer and more prosperous restoring all congressionally uh appropriated foreign assistance funding to our allies in Europe would be the first step in that direction on arms control and nonpr proliferation the Isn and ads bureaus employee subject matter
▶ 0:07:45experts with specialized backgrounds who both verify compliance of our Arms Control efforts and engage with multilateral institutions to ensure the United States is shaping Global Norms on these topics and not Russia not China not Iran not North Korea yet the Trump Administration has initiated a reduction in Force at the state department which could Target the critical work of the Isn and ads bureaus and the numerous career
▶ 0:08:16civil servants whose expertise is not replaceable on each of these issues Arms Control nonproliferation us assistance of Europe the Trump Administration must do something it's failed to do thus far it has to show up to counter Russian and Chinese malign influence the Trump Administration must show up and provide necessary funding for countries like mdova Georgia Ukraine who are striving to maintain and expand their democracies
▶ 0:08:46the Trump Administration is serious about arms control and nonproliferation efforts the administration must show up to multilateral institutions and our bilateral partners and engage proactively unfortunately its effort to fire hundreds of civil and Foreign Service officers with deep expertise in these issues runs counter to these goals and if the Trump Administration wants to pursue such drastic changes in US policy it must show up to Congress while I appreciate our Witnesses
▶ 0:09:17presence here today the lack of administrative engagement with this committee and the seating of article one power by this committee and this Republican majority not only undermines the role of the legislative branch but it harms US National Security at this critical time history I'll end with this in 1994 The Budapest agreement Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear weapons in exchange for a security guarantee from the United States Russia and Britain Russia
▶ 0:09:47obviously abandoned that promise long ago over the last few weeks Donald Trump has also broken our promise and won't even acknowledge Russia's aggression of course agreements mean nothing if not enforced and Trump's actions undercut The credibility of our country moments ago after this hearing started Ukraine and president zalinski agreed to a 30-day ceasefire uh I hope that that ceasefire is backed up with security
▶ 0:10:17uh guarantees as well or again they'll mean nothing now Ukraine has likely come to regret their decision to give up those weapons president zalinski is now asking allies for strong strong security guarantees such as those guaranteed by a nuclear umbrella to deter Russia and its horrific aggression and war crimes abandoning our allies in Europe will undermine our allies belief that the United States is a strong Dependable Ally and this only emboldens China
▶ 0:10:47Russia North Korea and Iran we want to remain a global leader in arms control non-proliferation and transatlantic relationships the United States must show up and we must lead I look forward to our witness testimony and I yield the balance of my time other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may may be submitted for the record we are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this very important topic we have the honorable
▶ 0:11:18Yim Pete uh PhD Dr Pete former assistant secretary Bureau of Arms Control verification and compliance US State Department Mr Daniel coaches uh senior fellow Hudson Institute and Ambassador James O'Brien former assistant secretary Bureau of Europe and Europe uh Europe Asia Affairs Department of State this chair recognizes the important of the issues before us and is grateful to have
▶ 0:11:48your presence here to speak with us your full statements will be made part of the record and I'll ask each of you to keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for our m members to have questions I now recognize Dr Pete for her opening statement thank you Mr chairman ranking member keing distinguished members of the committee and thank you for the opportunity to testify today I provide specific detailed
▶ 0:12:18recommendations a plethora of them in my prepared remarks on potential reforms for the arms control and International Security family at the Department of State otherwise known as the T family but I would like to address some overarching issues first for American leadership to endure and facilitate and contribute to security and peace we must be strong militarily economically and diplomatically this means perhaps doing more with less it is something
▶ 0:12:48that we were required to do when we were when I was a staffer on this committee and it is something that can and will be done that also Begins by placing the security well-being of the American people and our nation first and aligning all of our efforts toward that goal but this does not mean America alone the US under President Trump supports alliances alliances denote that there is an alignment of Interest it denotes that there is an equal stake and equal contributions toward
▶ 0:13:18the shared goals of the alliance members for decades multilateralism has been viewed as an end unto itself without rigorous or careful examination of the Mandate functions and relevance of multinational organizations in addressing the current political and threat environment such a review is integral to any effort to transform our policies and government to advance US security and interests and leave the US well positioned for current and future
▶ 0:13:49challenges to ranking member Keaton's point about the US showing up the US definitely shows up in more that ways than just foreign aid in my area of jurisdiction and when I was at the state department we show up via AIS asore sites in Europe via US Navy ships with agis ballistic missile defense capabilities and systems we show up with Patriot systems in the European theater as well as other support this all through the US European face adaptive approach
▶ 0:14:19to the defense of the European theater I too firmly believe that the work of the T family where diplomacy intelligence and defense converged is an essential tool in the US arsenal of National Security Instruments of power it embodies peace through strength including via verification and compliance strategic dialogues deterrent missile defense policy and assistance for non-proliferation efforts I'm sharing a few of the observations included in
▶ 0:14:49my prepared remarks some unpleasant but we are all seeking to improve our capabilities as assistant secretary for verification compliance I had the opportunity to indeed work with some brilliant dedicated forward-thinking professionals and faithful public servants and Patriots in this space but also observed others pining for and operating in a distant past or seized by nativis nativism losing focus of us interests priorities and objectives the EUR centrism
▶ 0:15:20Euro dominance stemming from Cold War Dynamics arms treaties and agreements has led to the usurpation of some T family responsibilities and including those statutorily required the utilization by the intelligence community of findings and assessments by International organizations instead of providing us intelligence manipulation of clearance processes to usurp statutory roles and authorities of decision makers and advanced personal agendas examples include scope content determinations
▶ 0:15:50relating to the compliance report specifically with respect to Iran Personnel in the office of the legal adviser reversing previously clear determinations and appr language on such matters as violations of un Security Council resolutions and assistant secretary level clearances changed before they reach the secretary's desk some of the recommendations to succeed in reforming realigning streamlining and optimizing there must be clear guidance and Leadership on agenda priorities and scope this applies to under
▶ 0:16:20under secretaries bureaus offices up the chain of command to the secretary and it should also guide the authorization process we need clear lines of demarcation transparency and honesty in reporting over stop over classification to hide information from the Congress or the American people particularly when data is in the public domain return to unclassified reports with classified tssi annexes as mandated by Statute no versions of intermediate
▶ 0:16:50classification dramatically increase the scope of the compliance report in terms of the subject matter covered and information used to inform the judgments and doent optimization te has to be fully integrated no marginalization or subordination to Regional bureaus the T should reflect the current landscape in scope and message as potentially the under secretary for Global Security and strategic domains this includes outer space undee Ai and cyber eliminate Congressional and public affairs offices
▶ 0:17:21and Personnel within bureaus as all these requests should go through the Department's respective bureaus and offices to ensure maximum coordination and message cohesion bring matters pertaining to the Antarctic treaty Arctic Affairs emis Accords given based on the outer space treaty Space Traffic management already handled by the ads Bureau the ESC office of that Bureau to a revant and renamed ads Bureau funds and assistance program should be Consolidated into one dedicated office
▶ 0:17:51not an additional office but one office dedicated to such funding and oversight with similar two Regional bureaus other eliminations consolidations and reductions including in structure personnel and functions are included in my prepared testimony and some we are being called to do what is right and necessary not what is easy or popular I look forward to your questions and to working together
▶ 0:18:21to make the Department of State foreign policy and programs more efficient and in the hope of ushering in a new era of American leadership and greatness while advancing security and peace for the US the American people and worldwide thank you Mr chairman thank you Dr paete I now recognize Mr cois coaches as his opening for his opening statement thank you uh thank you good afternoon chairman self ranking
▶ 0:18:51member keading and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today on this important topic my name is Daniel coaches I am a senior fellow in the center on Europe in Eurasia at the Hudson Institute and I'm grateful for the opportunity to offer my testimony this afternoon please note that the views I express in this testimony are my own and should not be necessarily conscrew as those representing the Hudson Institute the last comprehensive Foreign Relations authorization bill reauthorization
▶ 0:19:21bill was enacted into law over 20 years ago at that moment Vladimir Putin had only been in office for 2 years it would be three more before he gave voice to his belief that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century the invasion of Georgia and Ukraine the annexation of Crimea and moscow's systematic Shadow war against the US and its allies waited in the future in 2002 Russia was in fact the fourth largest recipient of US foreign aid receiving
▶ 0:19:52nearly one quarter of US Dollars dist dispersed that fiscal year in the Europe and Eurasia region the US still reeling from the 911 attacks had successfully convinced allies to deploy alongside us to Afghanistan the push to focus NATO on out of area operations was underway a decision that in retrospect has proven foolish and from which Europe continues to recover in 2002 we retained a unipolar moment the year following the Chinese Navy
▶ 0:20:22counted 128 vessels 100 less than the United States today China is the world's largest navy with 370 ships and submarines the world was still 11 years away from the launch of the Belton Road initiative China's plan for massive infrastructure investment in order to link Beijing economically and politically to key Global regions including prominently in Eastern Europe today the world is a very different place as Congress undertakes this reauthorization effort the watchword
▶ 0:20:52I believe should be at the Forefront of your minds is competition principally against our great power adversaries China and Russia reorienting State Department resources for the current ERA of great power competition is a necessary task which will help steer US policy toward accomplishing the most outcomes prying one great power adversary from the other is in my view simply not possible the shared sinor Russian goal of insulating their illegitimate regimes and forcibly bringing an end to the Western
▶ 0:21:22Le Global Order and by extension decreasing us power and influence has bonded Beijing and Moscow a way which US diplomacy will be unable to overcome therefore we simply need to compete this being a competition the US cannot afford to lose we must leverage every tool in our Arsenal to maximize our advantages one of those more potent tools we have is foreign aid when thinking through this assistance the driving Factor should always be the question does this Advance US national interests there are clear
▶ 0:21:52examples during the past few years of US foreign aid dollars funding projects which do not Advance this interest clearly these while glaring are nonetheless minor components in the overall foreign aid program in the 20th century Nicholas Skyman wrote who controls the rimland controls rules Eurasia who rules Eurasia controls the Destinies of the world today this rimland which includes the majority of Continental Europe is hotly contested it is more important than ever that the us remain active in the region with the state
▶ 0:22:22department focusing its efforts on three key areas those where us support is crucial those where the US has a strong comparative advantage and finally Geographic areas or points of interest where they are on the cusp of magnified significance the Balkans for example fulfill components of all three of these Focus areas it is once again on the cusp of returning to top geopolitical relevance us support remains crucial and there are components of needed support particularly in the energy sphere
▶ 0:22:53where the US has significant comparative advantages as the committee thinks through the framework of State Department priorities Staffing and oversight I would also suggest a greater focus on the Arctic one region which is clearly on the cusp of heightened significance in the decades ahead finally I would note the imperative to focus our efforts on those Nations where our adversaries are targeting their atttention places like mdova and Ukraine residing in the unenviable gray Zone these countries find themselves in critical need of our
▶ 0:23:23support continued us prosperity and security lie in no small part upon ensuring stability in Europe as such it is advantageous to remain engaged in this theater borign Aid if utilized prudently and service of the national interest can help bolster positive outcomes in the region block our adversaries from Gaining undue influence and provide an excellent return on investment for US policy makers thank you with that I look forward to answering your questions and shedding anyl I can on this subject matter at hand this afternoon thank you Mr coaches
▶ 0:23:53I now recognize Ambassador O'Brien for his opening statement thank you Mr chairman ranking member um when I I've spent half my career in the private sector and half at the state department and what I've noticed are a couple things one is that Ur is the gateway to most Global issues any caucus or group that addresses a global issue runs through our relationships with
▶ 0:24:23our transatlantic Partners the P3 at the UN NATO itself all the significant organizations including the informal ones like the G7 and others so we have to get that right that's why you are ends up doing silly measurements like much more than half the paper that goes to the Secretary of State because it's that relationship that's the Bedrock of all other functions in the state department the second thing is the state Department's always in a state of transition every year a third of fsos
▶ 0:24:54change over politicals like us kind of come and go every couple of years experts get hired and even the civil service is facing an enormous transition as Baby Boomers hit retirement age so the impact of that is that it's pretty easy to get your priorities in place in the state department without a lot of barking like an angry dog about how the workforce is wrong and I think what it takes is clear leadership a set of criteria and an approach that makes sense to the American people
▶ 0:25:24and that workers can follow and I fear frankly Mr chairman we don't have that now four four points one of them is just goes to what's the role of this process so secretary Rubio and Mr musk seem to have settled their disagreement by agreeing that now 83% of Aid contracts can get uh cancelled and as always the powerful have settled their dispute on the backs of people without voices so there's American farmers waiting on $2.6 billion dollars of of payments by Aid and those
▶ 0:25:54have been disrupted I don't know if they'll be paid um there are tens of millions of people depending on health care and food that was delivered through Aid projects and now that they're not getting that they're either going to die or they're going to migrate this is the most effective border security program we've got and we just took it to zero now the most significant element of this though is that each of these projects came up of course to this committee and three other committees for approval before the money went out
▶ 0:26:24the door and the secretary of state has now said that this committee was wrong on four out of5 Dollar in the foreign assistance account that's a pretty poor batting average and I think what we need to do is find some way in which the administration can make clear what it intends to spend money on so that this committee can reach agreement and then the president can agree that he'll take care to follow the authorization law once it's enacted as opposed to asserting a unilateral prerogative to impound the money
▶ 0:26:55and as you go through that I hope you ask three questions one of of them is how does any restructuring Advance the president's objectives just to take one example on arms control every major agreement has been led by the US and much of that expertise sits in ads so if we just start firing people we won't be able to accomplish the kind of reductions the President says he wants in nuclear weapons second major question can we get others to spend more money we talk a lot about burden sharing in the military
▶ 0:27:25capacity here are others in Ukraine the United States spent the aid about 350 million on Ukrainian agriculture this contributed to tens of billions of dollars that Ukraine spent on its own military it also LED that 350 million to $2.2 billion dollar in private sector investment by American companies Aid also spent the money to help Ukraine get this grain out if we want access to Ukrainian critical minerals those things are going to have to Transit
▶ 0:27:55Poland for the most part and maybe Romania two countries were kind of alienating right now so I don't understand how what we're doing allows us to get others to contribute more third major questions are we mortgaging the future our kids are going to get rich or get poor based on developments in artificial intelligence biomed sciences and and Energy Efficiency the Chinese are trying to write the global standards in those areas if we
▶ 0:28:25stand with our European partners along with Japan Korea and some others we will be more populous more wealthy and more experienced at writing the global standards that our companies will sell into if we try to do this on our own sending others off to do it on their own we fight China at a disadvantage that's mortgaging the future another area is the defense industry the supplemental appropriation for Ukraine spent more than $30 billion in US
▶ 0:28:56companies now the European an are about to spend tens maybe hundreds of billions two-thirds of which they would spend with us companies but they are going to direct it to their own companies those are jobs that will not be in your districts even if American companies get European contracts we're mortgaging the future so I hope you can put those questions and I hope the administration shows up to provide clear answers because with that it's easy to address the structural issues thank you Mr chairman uh thank you Ambassador O'Brien
▶ 0:29:26I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning Dr Pati does the current structure of the family reflect the current threat environment while looking at the future to adapt to any Authority structure and programs that we need to change to address emerging threats small components of the T family are dedicated
▶ 0:29:56to emerging security challenges but its current construct is primarily focused on nuclear arms control and uh agreements and structures that no longer exist or are just a um a modom of what was needed at the time so in some yes
▶ 0:30:26it does advance us interests it does align with our America First priorities but in order to adapt it needs to become leaner and uh only the best people need to be there we need to eliminate redundancy we need to as I specified in my oral remarks and my uh prepared remarks we need to avoid duplication and that leads to waste of
▶ 0:30:57time energy and resources so we need to have clear lines of demarcation in our conversation prior to this hearing you asked if it would be possible to merge the International Security nonproliferation Bureau Isn with ads statutorily verification and compliance my first instinct was we are able to and I provide specifics we are able to distill both bureaus down to
▶ 0:31:27perhaps five or six offices we are able to consolidate functions that are overlapping among the offices in these bureaus but I do caution going back to statutory mandate and the history of the Genesis of the verification compliance Bureau and T of the merging of negotiations assistance funds with the verification and compliance
▶ 0:31:58uh when I worked on the committee with the former chairman Ross leonin um ranking member keading was very supportive of uh modifying the atomic energy act and uh the pattern and the method in which we approve one 123 agreements nuclear cooperation agreements I propose that that is valuable for Isn but verification and compliance must be integrated into the verification and compliance of nuclear cooperation
▶ 0:32:28agreements as well and ensure that there is accountability if there is cheating even on those civilian nuclear cooperation agreements because they inform also all our efforts with respect to deterence defense collaboration Partnerships and the like okay thank you uh Dr O'Brien usaid what what does that stand for agency for International development
▶ 0:32:58ah I thought so agency for International Development you gave us two examples of usaid providing money for Americans I think that's one of the things that this committee will try to get to although usaid is not in our portfolio but I I needed to address that so Mr I'm sorry I don't understand the tension Mr chairman uh the tension is it's for International Development you right by Americans in this case I mean people need food
▶ 0:33:28we can buy the food on the market we can buy it from Americans no it's International Development we need to correct the usaid and I think uh senator now Secretary of State Rubio intends to do that Mr coaches I have less than a minute the Balkans are vital to this committee I think they're a potential flash point uh and you mentioned energy uh and the Russian influence of course inser can you
▶ 0:33:59elaborate on your view of how we become an energy partner and you've got 30 seconds well I completely agree I think not just Russian but also Chinese investment in energy in the Balkans has um has expanded quite significantly I think in two ways one of course is US natural gas trying to help those nations in that region build out their interconnections and I think the other is nuclear uh so helping to leverage our expertise in the nuclear sphere I think will improve the energy picture there and also um some of the air quality issues isues and the the sort of
▶ 0:34:29um life issues that they have in the region which are impacted by the use of heavy use of coal thank you I yield and I now recognize ranking member keing for five minutes thank you you know I I think in Ukraine that myself I understand Putin's rhetoric and and I believe some Bel that uh what he envisions is a reconstitution of the old Soviet Union but I think his real concern in Ukraine has been right next door
▶ 0:34:59to him will be a country rich with young educated technologically expert uh young people that will become entrepreneurs I think he's worried that the Bread Basket of the world is right next door and that economic influence I'm I know he's concerned about the potential for Ukraine's own military-industrial development itself uh and to have that Prosper prospering country in a democracy right now next door while the Russian economy
▶ 0:35:30continues to go in the tank and he's driven it further with his illegal war in Ukraine serves as a contrast that would create a great domestic political problem for themselves let alone cutting out the oligarchs that are part of his network of self- wealth that many people say makes him the wealthiest person in the world it's a mafia like crime syndicate as it's been discussed so it's that comparison uh Ambassador O'Brien I I traveled with you uh to Ukraine
▶ 0:36:00uh when I was there I met with the uh UK US Ukrainian American Ukrainian Chamber of Commerce and I was just struck by the the businesses the US businesses that are there uh how they made it through this war continued and how they wanted to grow Beyond this they realized all the things I just said about Ukraine being the PowerHouse really of Europe down the road and how that not only helped our own business interests here at home
▶ 0:36:30but also strengthens our security here at home so investing in International Development is indeed investing in our own priorities here in the United States can you uh talk a little bit more about how the US interests uh you know make America uh safer more prosperous and also this idea that people have and I understand if that's is all they know that oh we're
▶ 0:37:00giving money to other countries when we could use the money back here at home it's my belief that investing over there is has a multiplying effect in terms of investing at home could you talk about that you answer first and then no no no ambass because about the because we traveled there and I met with I I was in Ukraine eight times during the War I I think I I don't have an exact multiply uh multiple for how much
▶ 0:37:31us assistance can comes back to help us but I know for example that we had a large program to improve the environment for small and medium businesses with a real focus on American companies they were already beginning to invest substantially in the Ukrainian defense industrial base and they were beginning to invest in EU countries where inputs would come from Ukraine and then be exported elsewhere in in the world and those are direct benefits to our economy they
▶ 0:38:01also help us again as as Mr coic and I both emphasized the real struggle ahead is with China which hasn't featured much in the last five weeks and and I think we're a lot better off if we have that as our focus and we build our base and just the way you all do when you run you get your base together and our base sits with our European Partners Japan Korea and some others with that we're a billion to a billion and a half people for Ukraine to inject another 35 million
▶ 0:38:31young well-educated people with enormous resources into our base helps us with the real struggle that's ahead and that's part of what's at stake here I really appreciate the comments of uh uh our other Witnesses too highlighting other areas where this would be important too uh you know like the Balkans like the Arctic this is these are areas where it's critical uh and we are in competition with China in those areas and
▶ 0:39:01it's this investment in Ukraine uh that's going to strengthen that our moving away from that uh does just the opposite uh so whether it's the Balkans whether it's up north whether it's these areas of influence whether it's our overall strategy with China has been one of deterrence that's our strategy this is weakened as well uh so when you look at this front line and you look at that investment I don't know how you can't help but understand and it's up to us as representative the people to better
▶ 0:39:31communicate to people in our districts and across the country that this is indeed the America First policy I yield back and now recognize the representative from Ohio Mr Davidson for five minutes I I think the gentlemen I think our Witnesses I appreciate you being here today uh to answer questions uh Mr O'Brian you spent some time with the Biden Administration um what does the phrase are you familiar with the phrase as much as it takes as long as it
▶ 0:40:01takes Y what so you are familiar with it what does that phrase mean as much as it takes we're clear of that just keep cutting the checks as long as it takes to do what they never would Define the mission what's the mission as you see it well no I think we we did and I think it goes to some of the difficulties I have with the decisions no you didn't and and and the reality is uh is uh Victoria I think I think you're right there well let me elaborate since my time Victoria nulan
▶ 0:40:32uh Victoria nulan said that it was regime change in Russia including war crimes tribunals for Vladimir Putin when did she say that I don't have the date I I'll be glad to supply it for you since it's my job to question you yeah okay so uh what what was it exactly that you believ that the administration committed to do in Ukraine yeah so what besides spend money okay sorry my turn the what we were working toward during my time as assistant
▶ 0:41:03secretary was to build a viable ceasefire much of that work was spent with the ukrainians so they were prepared to to do that the Russians were unwilling to make a ceasefire on any terms that would be sustainable okay so that I appreciate that you wanted to secure peace um and and that's good because then you should be euphoric that President Trump has coming and said the United States of America is very happy to help you secure a piece uh but I agree with but there's not a lot of Happiness uh in in
▶ 0:41:33uh in the world from the Biden Administration it's oh how dare you not keep cutting the checks and that generally is the theme within the state department is they'll share just enough information to get Congress to shut up and cut the checks right that's that I'm not having a discussion with you please I don't plan to talk to you again that was turn your mic off I'm not talking to you anymore all right um so this is the reality of what what's been going on for a long time uh people come to Congress and say just cut the checks
▶ 0:42:03and frankly uh what you see out of the European Union we couldn't get them to cut the checks for a long time you know some of the smaller countries did contribute uh a lot of countries contributed a little more but your big countries like Germany uh continue to not meet their obligations under NATO they gave statements about meeting their obligations but they didn't meet their obligations to Nato and now that the Donald Trump has said all right fine you'll find out um you're not ready for peace go ahead
▶ 0:42:33suddenly the Europeans have found the resolve to spend money I just want to share a quote from Irving Crystal a Godfather of the neoconservative movement he said in 1983 well before the end of the Cold War he said quote if we have learned anything from the NATO experience of the last 30 years that was uh you know in 1983 it is the rediscovery of an old truth dependency corrupts in absolute dependency corrupts absolutely the culture of entitlement and dependence on American money
▶ 0:43:04has corrupted uh many of our allies and it's nice to see it changing um when we look at our own approach though we've had a hard time saying what's in it for America why should America serve as the deao European Defense Force and and then continue to be uh treated with contempt for it Victoria nulan had her own problems but when we look at the uh acting Ambassador there we should have some other concerns so um you miss paet you're you're you're
▶ 0:43:34familiar with some of the challenges from your time in the ledge Branch um does it resonate with you that we're kept in the dark and a lot of things just so we cut the checks absolutely and unfortunately it uh became it was crystallized during my time at the Department of State just to what Great Lengths uh some individuals go to to hide information from the Congress but to your point uh Congressman Davidson and the
▶ 0:44:04discussion of foreign aid foreign aid needs to have clearly defined goals and objectives with respect to Ukraine that never really occurred when Senator Rand Paul sought a GAO report to ascertain how the funding had been used who were the end users was it used for the intend purposes that the Congress had appropriated and authorized it for he was called an agent of
▶ 0:44:34puant yeah that's that's the standard attack is if you don't if you don't just cut the checks you're you're you're An Enemy of the State the Deep State maybe and that's where you look at Bridget Brink she's actually worked to get rid of the prosecutor that was going to look in Ukraine into Hunter Biden who was going to look into things that we should have an interest in that we should have accountability because what's lacking when you're kept in the dark is accountability and that's exactly what the Biden Administration worked to avoid on every front and if I may sir if I could share with all the members of this committe the gentleman's
▶ 0:45:05time is up up I now recognize the representative from Rhode Island Mr ammo thank you Mr chairman focusing on some things that matter I let's talk about President Trump and his direction to Elon Musk to use Doge to take a chainsaw to our government this has resulted in thousands of federal employees being fired these sweeping layoffs have been willful and malicious adding to the chaos and confusion laid off workers have had their terminations for sended
▶ 0:45:35once Elon realized the dangerous consequences of his actions so it's clear that Doge has no idea how our government works yet that hasn't stopped them from forging ahead on their Rampage I underscore Rampage every agency has been directed uh to submit a report on plans to further reduce their Workforce by this Thursday thankfully the state department hasn't had the mass layoffs of other agencies like usaid apparently a point of contention between Elon and
▶ 0:46:06secretary Rubio however there is a list of about 700 civil servants who could be fired circulating at the agency and in the last two months alone another 700 employees have resigned nearly as many uh as typically resign in an entire year so make no mistake these proposed layoffs and force resignations of dedic ated public servants threaten our national security it brings me to two subjects of today's hearing the Bureau of International Security and nonproliferation and the Bureau of Arms
▶ 0:46:36Control deterrence and stability uh aka the experts who work to prevent nuclear war and international arms trafficking and I hope that everybody agrees that we'd be better off by having long serving experienced civil servants working at these bureaus they leverage their institutional knowledge to keep us safe uh look after all we're we're talking about nuclear arms control agreements monitoring chemical weapons protecting critical American innovation and coordinating
▶ 0:47:07Global cooperation to prevent terrorists from accessing sensitive technology this doesn't sound like entrylevel work to me it sounds like it requires a deep understanding of these Technologies and our International agreements built on years of experience so Ambassador O'Brien briefly can you tell me uh a bit how firing or forcing the resignation of Staff Within These bureaus would harm our national security and our ability to prevent Bad actors from accessing nuclear weapons and other
▶ 0:47:37Technologies sure I I think there are a couple of things so one is the chairman asked about new technologies so certainly in the Isn Bureau I worked with them a lot on restricting access of Bad actors to new technologies the set of expertise that's available there on Supply chains and um the financing of trade in items that can lead to dangerous weapons is second to none and enables us to keep ourselves secure and I saw again
▶ 0:48:07and again how we were able to restrict Russian Iranian and North Korean access to these these items because of the expertise in that Bureau a a recent thing that we were just able to sort of push over the line in my last couple of months there was the um arrival of this Shadow Fleet a group of unregulated tankers that export Venezuela and Iranian and Russian oil uh competing unfairly with American Producers um and and avoiding sanctions we were finally able largely because of the expertise of
▶ 0:48:37people in that Bureau and in Ur to identify the kind of key nodes where those ships intersect with the global Commerce we're able to get the key states that have ability to access them either in ports or in Straits to shut it down more more Brad ly here it brings other countries along so Isn in particular but also ads work with all of the other countries that have an interest in the more sophisticated parts
▶ 0:49:07of the supply chains for weapons but also implementation of any kind of effective ceasefire Arrangement all that expertise sits there now is it all as up toate as we would want again there's enormous turnover in these places and I think somebody needs to really dig in and see who works there now ads hired during during the time I was assistant secretary a a number of very experienced people in working on issues like um AI crypto other ways in which Bad actors try
▶ 0:49:38to come at our security and I think if somebody takes the time to dig in you may find that you don't need sort of broad structural changes but you can actually just give clear Direction and that's what we're lacking right now yeah thank you Ambassador uh quickly before my time expires you know president Trump isn't just weakening our national security by firing federal employees he's detonating our relationships around the world by freezing foreign assistance we're our credibility with countries is being jeopardized I look at
▶ 0:50:08countries like Armenia that has been that has been moving closely to strengthening ties with the United States so you know as I wrap up here the message that we're sending uh is is is one that's detrimental to our commitment to countries like Armenia who need us to be committed in this relationship as we move further I yield back I now recognize rep the representative from California Miss Kim thank you chairman self and ranking member kidding for holding today's hearing and
▶ 0:50:38I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today good to see you good to see you Dr Philip uh it's been a while increasing stability preventing conflict and preserving and advancing effective Arm Control and disarmament measures are the call of ad's Miss Miss uh and we've repeatedly seen Russia reject us proposals for talks concerning an arms control framework after the expiration of start additionally
▶ 0:51:08I'm deeply concerned about the prc's accelerated nuclear uh weapons programs amidst its uh escalating rhetoric so can you talk to us about what ways can adfs be better positioned to work bilaterally and multilaterally to pursue itive nuclear risk uh dialogue thank you it's great to see you if uh the congressman has left but if I could start by uh
▶ 0:51:38making a couple of points uh number one with respect to Doge how many members of this committee would not have loved to have had a tool similar to that uncovering but the ultimate decision makers are the Secretary of State confirmed by the Senate comes from the Congress so it is just a tool it is not conducting a rampage president Trump himself has recognized
▶ 0:52:08the value of experts in the Isn and ABC Bureau not specifically but talking about how there are many good people we want to retain the best of the best but that does not mean that these two bureaus require over 300 IND individuals to keep the very best the most knowledgeable experts to engage in negotiations of Arms Control non proliferation and disarmament agreements and uh Tre not to be redundant
▶ 0:52:39but is there a certain line of uh technical or scientific expertise that would be that would prove beneficial uh if added to ads we have the current uh technical military Intel and scientific expertise ironically and that's part of my recommendations ironically these bureaus are overwhelmed by policy experts uh by messaging
▶ 0:53:09experts so if we were to reduce the personnel and reduce the scope to those who have the Hands-On expertise overseen by policy and expert that would go a long way to being more efficient and more successful in our Arms Control nonproliferation disarmament negotiations thank you um and you also mentioned in your
▶ 0:53:40testimony that uh the about the eurocentrism and Euro dominance stemming from Cold War Dynamics arms treaties and agreements has undermined some T family responsibilities relating to verification and compliance uh so what can be done to ensure this trend does continue again the T family and the under secretary needs to be treated equally to her PE counterpart for example
▶ 0:54:10and statute must be the overarching guide which means according to the Congressional report not just the statute but Congressional intent made it clear that no Regional Bureau was to supersede determinations made by the verification and compliance Bureau when it came to those functions uh and further with respect to uh the reference to sanctions
▶ 0:54:40and treasury the that intelligence is actually gathered primarily by the department of the treasury and all bureaus at the Department of State are engaged in those determinations to impose sanctions but uh with respect to the euro dominance and Euro centrism if we want to counter China as we did in the 45th Administration and as we want to do again now
▶ 0:55:11yes a lot goes through Europe just because historically that is the case but we cannot overly focus on just Europe to counter China we must Empower every Regional Bureau and every Bureau of the Department of State using all elements of us power not just those going through Europe chairman I have a few more questions but I'm running out of time do I have uh we'll have a second round uh I now
▶ 0:55:41recognize the representative from Nevada Madam Titus thank you Mr chairman uh well like some of my colleagues I'm appalled by Trump's actions that frees all of us foreign policy foreign aid rather uh abandon us Aid working professionals around the country and their families and dismantling the federal Workforce generally these steps have led to unnecessary
▶ 0:56:11deaths for those people who count on programs that we have been involved with with health care they financial hardship and uncertainty for our Foreign Service officers and diminished us credibility I've just met with some uh representatives from Europe earlier today and they're kind of appalled they don't really know how to react to having someone who's been their friend now not only not be a friend but possibly be an enemy I'm particularly concerned
▶ 0:56:42about the rolling back of democracy programs that uh existed with usaid you know we were there to support countries where there were new democracies that were building and established democracy that were backsliding we built vibrant Civil Service I mean Civil Society communities we backed up the Free Press we not only were supporting our own values but we were backing up China and Russia and if we're not there they're going to step
▶ 0:57:12in to fill the void the Republicans love to do a list of the things that usid does that they hate so I'd like to do a list of some of the pro-democracy programs that have been eliminated or frozen program dis support bellus Democratic leaders in Exile advancing bellus democracy program funding election monitoring in Kosovo advancing digital democracy in Serbia promoting the development of independent professional media in mova fostering more responsive
▶ 0:57:42governance in Armenia boosting Civil Society engagement in Georgia supporting political pluralism in Bosnia heroina these are the kind of programs that are our soft power that we not only further the values that we have but it also helps our national security and if we don't believe that the minute these were frozen you saw uh Bruno Rodriguez praising this meev saying oh this is great Applause around the world for us being gone so they could
▶ 0:58:12step in so that's what I'd like for us to address and I'd ask you Mr O'Brien looking at the Western Balkans uh there have been a lot of programs there that have been terminated and not just those that were focused on democracy like I mentioned but some things like promoting energy security combating corruption strengthening critical infrastructure could you talk a little bit about how Russia will see it as an advantage if we're not there with those programs yeah it already does um
▶ 0:58:43so Russia supplies uh critical amount of gas less and less to Serbia and on into Bosnia and elsewhere um the serbs have announced they would like to get to zero but for that to happen they need American Natural Gas has to become available that will come either through a pipeline that runs up from basically Greece through North Macedonia or it would come through a pipeline that runs through Croatia and across Bosnia now that pipeline is stuck because of corruption which is tied
▶ 0:59:13to two local leaders one of whom actively presents himself as the local affiliate of the administration and is actively trying to get out from under sanctions because of his corruption so we're now eliminating the programs that will clear the way for America to become a reliable energy supplier and free these countries from Russian influence I have trouble seeing that as an America First agenda I completely agree well how about mova things that are happening in mova would you address
▶ 0:59:43that yeah so mdova like a lot of countries from Central Asia all the way across to the Black Sea these countries want much less Russia they see this as their chance to get out from under and in mov there was a small Enclave that Russia used to run guns and money laundering operations out around the world that has become incredibly weakened as a result of the last few years of sanctions Russia now facing elections this fall in mova Russia has gone on a
▶ 1:00:13massive spree of disinformation which also affects Romania because of the language vote buying um and um efforts to to influence the movan elections by using energ which they used to supply so we were building networks to get into Ukraine and also providing the ability for mova to generate its own power but also run power in from um from Europe much of that's gone now and we're going to leave mova at at the beest
▶ 1:00:44of Russia which will reinstate its gun running Thug running operation again again not in our best interest thank you I Y back uh I now recognize the representative from Delaware Mr McBride thank you madam chair uh ranking member keing also wonderful Mr chairman could you repeat your introduction again please uh yes it's uh it's a we
▶ 1:01:14have set the standard on the floor of the house and I'm simply what is that standard Mr chairman would you repeat what you just said when you introduced a duly elected representative from the United States of America please I will the representative from Delaware Mr McBride Mr chairman you are out of order Mr chairman have you no decency I mean I I've come to know you a little bit but this is not decent we will continue
▶ 1:01:44this you will not continue it with me unless you introduce a duly elected representative the right way this hearing is aured
▶ 1:02:22this is your I'll make sure get this is that