Mission Incomplete: Strengthening the TAP Program to Ensure a Smoother Transition to Civilian Life for Tomorrow's Veterans

VA Budget and ModernizationHouse Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity · 2025-03-25 · 119th Congress
The House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity held this hearing to examine implementation of the Transition Assistance Program (TAP), which helps roughly 200,000 service members annually move from military to civilian life, focusing on low on-time attendance rates, interagency coordination among DOD, VA, and Labor, and outside perspectives from veteran service organizations and employers. Begins at 0:18:47
Transcript
Highlights

Title

Oversight of DOD, VA, and Labor on the Transition Assistance Program

Purpose

The House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity held this hearing to examine implementation of the Transition Assistance Program (TAP), which helps roughly 200,000 service members annually move from military to civilian life, focusing on low on-time attendance rates, interagency coordination among DOD, VA, and Labor, and outside perspectives from veteran service organizations and employers. Chairman Derek Van Orden and Ranking Member Chris Pappas questioned agency officials on a first panel before hearing from nonprofit and industry witnesses on a second panel about employment outcomes, skillbridge, and spouse support. Begins at0:18:47

Who spoke

Chairman Derek Van Orden (R-WI)0:18:47: Opened by describing his own difficult transition after 26 years as a Navy SEAL0:19:17, said timely TAP attendance failure rose from about 25% to 52%0:20:18, and vowed to hold individual senior officers personally accountable rather than departments0:21:49; later argued no VA/DOD/Labor service degradation has occurred under the current administration and pressed witnesses to confirm it1:04:412:00:03.

Ranking Member Chris Pappas (D-NH)0:22:19: Noted the federal government spends over $13 billion a year on transition support with unclear oversight0:22:49, warned that Doge-driven hiring freezes and projected VA cuts threaten services amid a volatile economy0:23:50, and raised concerns about the administration's policy toward transgender service members0:24:50; in questioning cited a GAO finding that DOD failed to record roughly 78,000 warm handovers0:39:58.

Mr. Alex Baird, Director, Defense Support Services Center, DOD0:26:51: Testified that by end of 2023 TAP two-day track attendance rose over 7% and timeliness percentage doubled since 2022 corrective actions0:28:22; said a new commander-focused course on warm handovers launched "just yesterday" and that service IGs now audit TAP compliance0:40:29; called TAP a retention tool1:01:40.

Mr. John Green, Acting Executive Director, Outreach, Transition and Economic Development, VA0:29:52: Described VA benefit advisors assisting over 200,000 transitioning service members in FY20240:31:53 and the Solid Start program's outreach cadence (up to 21 calls across three post-separation windows)0:43:00; pressed by the chairman on VA's Office of General Counsel interpreting "calling" veterans as requiring a voice phone call rather than texting1:03:11.

Ms. Regina Yount, Assistant Director, Outreach, Transition and Economic Development, VA0:42:29: Explained VA/DOD mental-health collaboration through Solid Start outreach at 90, 180, and 365-day intervals0:42:29 and cited a 96.3% satisfaction score on the most recent Post-Separation Transition Assessment0:44:31.

Ms. Margarita Devlin, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Operations and Management, Labor0:34:56: Cited 96% and 94% positive satisfaction ratings for TAP employment workshops0:35:57 and reported the Employment Navigator and Partnership Program (EMPP), at 40 installations, gets veterans employed about two months sooner and earning about 11% more0:37:58; pressed by Rep. Hage on accountability, defended Labor's role under 10 U.S.C. §11440:46:02.

Rep. Juan Ciscomani (R-AZ) [misidentified as "Hage" in captions]0:44:56: Pressed Devlin on Labor's accountability for TAP participation, citing 63-day-faster job placement and 11% higher wages data0:45:31, and cited a 60% vs. 30% reenlistment gap at Fort Cavazos tied to TAP attendance1:47:33.

Rep. Morgan McGarvey (D-KY)0:50:05: Used a "KFC training standards" analogy to argue TAP quality should be consistent regardless of branch or duty station0:51:36; questioned Baird on commander compliance0:52:36 and Devlin on tailoring TAP to private-industry hiring needs0:53:37.

Rep. Kimberlyn King-Hinds (R-Northern Mariana Islands)0:55:07: Asked whether TAP is mandatory given the 52% timeliness rate0:55:37 and about legislative fixes to improve interagency streamlining, and raised access challenges for veterans in rural/island communities0:57:38.

Ms. Joy Craig, Associate Director, Service Member Affairs, VFW1:11:29: Said DOD provides only 5 days of transition preparation despite up to six months of onboarding training1:12:29, cited a GAO finding that 53% of TAP waivers were approved and 22% of at-risk service members skipped the mandatory two-day track1:12:59, and urged Congress to create an Under Secretary of Defense for Transition1:15:31.

Ms. Elizabeth O'Brien, Senior Vice President, Hiring Our Heroes1:16:31: Cited McKinsey data that 60% of transitioning service members earn less in their first civilian job1:18:02 and Hiring Our Heroes skillbridge results: an 89% job-offer rate and $107,000 average starting salary1:19:32; noted the Military Spouse Career Accelerator Pilot has placed over 1,000 spouses with an 85% offer rate1:21:03.

Ms. Barbara Carson, Managing Director of Programs and Services, D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families, Syracuse University1:21:34: Said 62% of veterans are underemployed after 6.5 years1:22:04, cited RAND's estimate of 46 overlapping programs across 11 agencies representing $13 billion annually1:24:04, and recommended tying TAP participation to commander performance evaluations1:23:34.

Mr. Brian Lewis, Executive Director of Customer Operations, Consumers Energy1:26:35: Described Consumers Energy's 800+ veteran employees and a partnership that registered seven apprenticeship programs eligible for GI Bill benefits1:28:37, and said the company's Michigan boot camps have trained over 300 veterans for energy careers1:29:07.

Ms. Kandi Tillman, Managing Co-Founder, 50strong1:31:08: Reported a recent virtual hiring event drew hundreds of job seekers with 90% discovering new civilian employment pathways1:32:09, and recommended delaying MOU section 4.3.4's individual-employer requirement for skillbridge while mandating immediate outcomes reporting under 4.3.31:37:42.

Rep. Juan Ciscomani (R-AZ)1:41:14: (second round) Asked Tillman about her experience with Labor's EMPP program1:41:44 and Lewis about employment gaps facing transitioning veterans1:44:16.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)1:45:47: Raised concerns about VA staffing and funding cuts affecting TAP delivery1:47:17 and asked Craig and Carson about resource gaps and the ideal transition timeline1:47:481:49:20.

Rep. King-Hinds (R-Northern Mariana Islands)1:51:24: (second round) Asked O'Brien about spouse inclusion in TAP1:51:54 and underemployment drivers1:53:25.

Rep. Tom Barrett (R-MI)1:54:56: Distinguished program "outputs" from "outcomes"1:54:56, and asked Lewis about building veteran camaraderie and purpose in the civilian workplace1:56:27 and about the Potterville, Michigan apprenticeship facility1:58:58.

Key moments

Chairman Van Orden stated on-time TAP attendance failure rose from about 25% to 52%, calling it "an extraordinarily huge failure rate"0:20:18, and said 48% of service members don't begin TAP in advance0:21:49.

GAO found DOD failed to record warm handovers for nearly 78,000 transitioning service members over two years, per Ranking Member Pappas0:39:58; Baird responded that a new commander training course launched "just yesterday" and service IGs are now auditing the process0:40:29.

Devlin testified that EMPP participants find jobs about two months sooner and earn about 11% more than non-participants0:37:58; Rep. Ciscomani cited a related 63-day-faster figure and pressed her on Labor's legal responsibility under 10 U.S.C. §1144, which she said she had earlier described only as DOD's obligation0:45:310:46:02.

VFW's Joy Craig cited a GAO figure that 53% of TAP waivers were approved and 22% of at-risk service members skipped the mandatory two-day track entirely1:12:59, and recommended a new Under Secretary of Defense for Transition1:15:31.

Chairman Van Orden used a point of personal privilege to explain his support for excluding gender-transitioning service members from deployment eligibility due to a two-to-four-year non-deployable recovery period, citing his friendship with a transgender former Navy SEAL0:59:39.

O'Brien reported Hiring Our Heroes skillbridge fellows had an 89% job-offer rate within three months and $107,000 average starting salary — roughly double an E-6's pay1:19:32; Tillman cited Lowe's skillbridge program achieving a 95% full-time offer rate1:33:39.

Carson said RAND estimates 46 overlapping transition programs exist across 11 agencies, representing about $13 billion in annual spending with data that is difficult to track for overlaps and gaps1:24:04.

Chairman Van Orden asked all second-panel witnesses whether they receive VA funding — all answered no or minimal (VFW unsure, one Department of Energy solar grant, IVMF federal grants from SBA/Commerce only) — before declaring no evidence of service degradation from Doge-related actions2:00:03.

Van Orden proposed financially penalizing senior officers (O-5s/O-6s) a symbolic "million dollars" in retirement value if their units fail to send personnel to TAP, framing accountability in terms of the roughly $3,000/month retirement-pay gap between O-5 and O-62:03:03.

Craig noted DOD spends six weeks to six months training recruits but provides only about five days of TAP preparation before separation1:12:291:40:14.

Metadata

CommitteeHouse Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
Chamber / CongressHouse · 119th Congress
Date2025-03-25
TypeHearing
Witnesses
Mr. Brian Lewis — Executive Director of Customer Operations, Consumers Energy
Mr. Alex Baird — Director, Defense Support Services Center, U.S. Department of Defense
Mr. John Green — Acting Executive Director, Outreach, Transition, and Economic Development, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Ms. Regina Yount — Assistant Director, Outreach, Transition, and Economic Development, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Ms. Margarita Devlin — Deputy Assistant Secretary for Operations and Management, U.S. Department of Labor
Ms. Joy Craig — Associate Director, Service Member Affairs, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S.
Ms. Elizabeth O'Brien — Senior Vice President, Hiring Our Heroes
Ms. Barbara Carson — Managing Director of Programs and Services, D’Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families Syracuse University
Ms. Kandi Tillman — Managing Co-Founder, 50strong
Videoyoutube
Transcript208 caption blocks · 17,492 words · 2:06:23 runtime
EventCongress.gov 118028