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▶ 0:15:03good morning the subcommittee on environment will come to order without objection the chair is authorized to declare recesses of the subcommittee at any time welcome today uh to our hearing entitled to the depths and Beyond examining the blue economy's Technologies I recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement good morning and thank you to our Witnesses for being with us today today's hearing is on a topic that impacts hundreds of millions of Americans daily the technological advancements of the blue economy for years
▶ 0:15:33Noah has set ambitious goals mapping and surveying the Us exclusive economic zone the E it's the largest in the world spanning over 13,000 miles of Coastline and containing 3.4 million square nautical miles of Ocean larger than the com combined land of all 50 states Noah cannot meet these mapping goals all on its own and private Public Partnerships are key to getting this done by the Target goal of 2030 furthermore a robust private sector contributing all types of Technologies and techniques
▶ 0:16:04is critical to our advancement in all things related to ocean science in my home state of Florida we know that the health of our economy is directly connected to the strength of our waterways and ports the Innovations we're discussing here today will result in a thriving blue economy which benefits all Americans Floridians are no strangers to the direct impact of weather and climate patterns there are other indirect impacts such as energy e production intern ational trade routes that ship our exports as well as Recreation and tourism opportunities that are
▶ 0:16:34part of the daily life in Florida making sure our critical infrastructure is protected is key to this continued success as Bad actors like China and Russia will seek to undermine the United States as we continue to innovate is it is important that the Investments we make have the best path to commercialization combining Noah's ocean science expertise with private Innovation allows the federal government to operate efficiently and have the greatest possible impact through our conversations like this one we can ensure all Americans are
▶ 0:17:04moving in the right direction together I look forward to working with members of the committee to establish a well-rounded approach to Growing our blue economy I again want to thank our Witnesses for being here and I look forward to each of your testimonies I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee for an opening statement well thank you very much chair Franklin uh for today's hearing on the blue economy and thank you to our Witnesses uh for uh agreeing to share your perspectives since the days of Roger Williams in the gasby
▶ 0:17:34affair the ocean has been Central uh to Rhode Island's identity but water isn't just a key to our past it's critical to our future thanks to investments in the blue economy my home state the Ocean State uh is home to thriving blue industry such as commercial fishing tourism defense production and ship building as well as Marine manufacturing offshore wind and oceanic research leveraging our state's natural strengths has ushered in a new age of prosperity for workers small businesses
▶ 0:18:04and research institutions estimates show that the blue economy employs more than 36,000 workers in Rhode Island and contributes over $5 billion to our gross domestic product every year around the country there are approximately 2 million workers supporting the blue economy who contribute about $373 billion to our nation's GDP to find out more I embarked on a multi-day multi-stop tour of Rhode Island's First Congressional District's blue economy in October
▶ 0:18:35I learned about leaders training union workers pursu pursuing careers in offshore wind I engage with researchers and higher education leaders working to deepen our understanding of the ocean I saw how cuttingedge manufacturing companies are growing their Footprints and investing in our communities tools like artificial intelligence and Robotics are revolutionizing ocean based Industries and driving growth in the blue economy Rhode Island has companies utilizing cuttingedge aquatic
▶ 0:19:05data collected through underwater drones uh that is increasing our nation's defense capabilities we must continue to invest in the blue economy it supports our Innovation our Workforce and our resiliency efforts it's about protecting our Global Innovation leadership we need public private and nonprofit stakeholders rowing in the same direction I hope there are shared values in our committee about leveraging ocean our ocean to advanc scientific research SP
▶ 0:19:35Economic Development and defend our national security but I am at this moment not certain those priorities are shared uh by the leadership uh at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue at the White House time and time again we have seen uh president Trump and his billionaire supporters stand in the way they have systematically undermined undermined and jeopardized our progress where in an area where we should continue to have great leadership take for example the Whiplash firing and rehiring
▶ 0:20:06of Staff the cancelling of contracts and the freezing of Grants across our government including at Noah uh and uh the Science Foundation and countless other key areas can anyone really claim that chaos and confusion supports Economic Development I think the answer is clear hacking and slashing away out our federal agency slow scientific progress that is urgently needed threatens economic stability undermines
▶ 0:20:36disaster preparedness and can hinder National Security my state has welcomed Noah with open arms it will turbocharge ocean research Innovation and initiatives that will grow our blue economy innovation has always always been a collaborative effort between government Academia nonprofits and Private Industry collaboration between government and Academia has driven foundational moonshot Innovations private Public Partnerships have turned breakthroughs
▶ 0:21:07into real world applications and scaled them rapidly however Trump and Doge and the actions uh of the last several weeks have worked overtime to turn back the clock crippling Federal support for research at universities and the private sector are dimming the prospects for future scientific discovery it is cutting off Pathways and opportunities that lead to careers in science and Innovation the actions of President Trump have driven universities to lay off
▶ 0:21:37staff issue new guidance for graduate students and push away the very expertise that we urgently need now to continue our advances in the blue economy researchers are left scrambling organizations are being forced into crisis mode and students are dissuaded from pursuing careers in in stem these funding cuts are threatening America's already tenuous global leadership in Ocean research and Innovation Elon Musk is opening the door to competitors around the world in adversaries like China who are already catching
▶ 0:22:07up to our investments in research and development so I end with this what does it mean when the United States a nation struggling to stay at the Forefront of science is unilaterally disarming and letting our strongest scientific tools Wither on the vine look I hope we can find a bipartisan consensus to push back against these decisions uh because if not there will come a point where recovery May no longer be possible with that a yield
▶ 0:22:38thank you ranking member Amo and I'd also now at this time like to recognize the chairman of the full committee Dr Babin thank you I'd like to thank the gentleman my friend from Florida chairman Franklin for having this hearing today and I look forward to the great work that uh he's going to accomplish as chairman of this very subcommittee on the surface today's topic might seem mundane however if you delve deeper into the theme of this hearing it becomes one of the most imported topics uh that we
▶ 0:23:08can uh discuss our oceans and their vast assets are vital to Global influence Every Nation depends on the ocean whether as a trade route for imports or exports or has a direct source uh of essential materials needed to prosper uh they also possess numerous existing infrastructures and untapped resources that are absolutely critical to a thriving economy this unavoidable dependence on our oceans is
▶ 0:23:38why that I'm examining today's hearing through the lens of National Security exploring the ocean can improve data on the visibility and accuracy of sunar surveying can provide valuable information on deep sea Mining and monitoring can ensure the safety of undersea cables and Communications lines staying at the Forefront of the technologies that support these fields is key for maintaining and strengthening our national security and that's why I'm
▶ 0:24:08very pleased to have Oceaneering and a houston-based company that operates the world's largest Fleet of remotely operated vehicles vehicles here today they have nearly perfected the model of developing Innovative dual use Technologies uh that meet both their business needs and the demands of the United States Navy and other federal agencies there's no need for our federal researchers to start from scratch in order to invent world changing technology
▶ 0:24:39uh private companies like these testifying before us here today are already 10 steps ahead of this process in this process and stand ready to share their expertise or even deploy their ready too Technologies I look forward to hearing about examples of this Innovation and exploring ways to better position the federal government to capitalize on this I want to thank you and Mr chairman I yeld back thank you Mr chairman and as a uh as an oceanography major and a career
▶ 0:25:09naval officer before I I find today's topic extremely exciting far from mundane uh space is exciting and I like space we have a lot of that in Florida as well but the oceans are have always been near and dear to me um so next I'd like to go ahead and introduce our Witnesses our first witness today is Mr Earl childis senior vice president and Comm and chief commercial officer of Oceaneering International uh Mr childis became the chief commercial officer and Senior vice president of Business Development for Oceaneering in March of 2020 previously he served as Executive
▶ 0:25:39Vice President of strategy and business development for tadine marine our next witness is Mr Shephard Smith he reserves he serves as the chief technology officer for ex ocean which designs builds and operates the world's largest Fleet commercial Fleet of uncrewed survey vessels he retired from a 28-year career career at Noah as a rear Admiral in 2021 where he served 10 years at se that's a long time at se not not at 10 years I spent three or four years but uh I appreciate that I understand what that sacrifice
▶ 0:26:10involves and directed the hydrographic survey and nautical charting program at the office of co- survey our third witness is Dr Margaret linan she is director of scripts institution of oceanography and vice Chancellor for maritime science of University of California at San Diego she is an ocean biog Geo chemist which is a very multi fascinating multi-disciplinary uh topic we were discussing previously and a Paleo oceanographer whose research include study of ocean carbon cycling and the role of the oceans in climate
▶ 0:26:40and our Final witness today is Dr Tim Jansen co-founder and CEO of soar ocean after receiving his PHD in physical oceanography from Del University he later became researcher uh at the Naval Postgraduate School and a teacher at San Francisco State University Tim co-founded spoon drift Technologies in 2016 which turned into so far in 2019 I now recognize Mr childis for 5 minutes to present testimony thank you
▶ 0:27:11chairman Babin ranking member lrin subcommittee chairman Franklin and subcommittee ranking member Amo and the rest of the members of the committee I I find myself very nervous this morning maybe more nervous than normal and as as I was reflecting on that the reason is the import of what we're talking about today um I've witnessed throughout my career um how strong public private Partnerships can accelerate Innovation and I urge the subcommittee to remain committed to enabling this uniquely
▶ 0:27:42American superpower it's what we do better than anywhere else in the world Oceaneering has spent more than 60 years pioneering ocean exploration through advanced subc Robotics and remote operations from our Origins as commercial divers to developing atmosphere diving suits to building the world's largest work class remotely operated vehicle or ROV Fleet our journey reflects a commitment to solving the toughest challenges in the in the harshest environments our capabilities
▶ 0:28:12have been proven time and time again from recovering spacecraft from the ocean floor surveying historic shipwrecks and locating lost commercial aircraft today Oceaneering is driving the future of Maritime op operations through remote resident and autonomous systems that enhance safety reduce operational costs and minimize environmental impacts these Technologies are transforming offshore work and enabling safer more sustainable
▶ 0:28:42operations while also onshoring jobs that have traditionally been offshore our resident remotely operated vehicles and uncrewed surface vessels are already helping operators reduce vessel days which translates into measurable safety improvements and significant CO2 reductions for example our Liberty eov an all electric battery powered resident ROV has demonstrated major fuel savings compared to a vessel supported system
▶ 0:29:13according to our customer equinor shifting to resident and remote rovs can reduce emissions by 40% for a given project the numbers from equinor support a 20-day residency for a work class ROV is like removing cars from the road in CO2 reductions our New Freedom auv or autonomous underwater vehicle with long long duration autonomous inspection capabilities Builds on this progress by enabling persistent asset monitoring
▶ 0:29:43without continuous surface vessel support electrification is the next major Frontier we are rapidly increasing the electrification of subc systems to reduce Reliance on hydraulic power and further minimize the the carbon footprint of offshore energy operations these Innovations align directly with global efforts to decarbonize the offshore sector while enhancing operational performance and asset Integrity equally important is the Dual use nature
▶ 0:30:13of these Technologies tools originally developed for commercial operations such as our onshore remote operation centers or Oro are now being adopted by the US Navy and hold promise for agencies like Noah oo's capabilities can support remote bomet surveys and enable real-time control of unmanned systems and fleets of unmanned systems offering scalability across a range of government and scientific Missions at the heart of all of this progress has been
▶ 0:30:43research the scrips institution of oceanography co-panelist here today is a leading force in advancing Ocean Technology collaborations with scripts Woods Hole oceanographic institution and the and the multitude of other research centers are crucial to sustaining and increasing the speed of innovation support from the national s Science Foundation continues to fund foundational research that leads to the sensing capabilities that are needed on these subc robots with strong public private Partnerships
▶ 0:31:13and a shared commitment to exploration the US can continue to lead in Ocean Technology shape a future that is rapidly deployed safe and sustainable chairman Franklin I look forward to a thoughtful discussion and welcome any questions on how ocean earing can continue to contribute to the future of ocean exploration thank you thank you Mr chers I'll now recognize Mr Smith for five minutes to present testimony thank you chairman chairman Babin chairman Franklin ranking member ammo uh thank you for an invitation to
▶ 0:31:43present to this hearing I'm here as the chief technology officer of EX ocean a global data company Global ocean data company but I spent the majority of my career serving the American people as a commissioned officer with Noah and I will use that experience to briide some context in my remarks Noah maintains three complimentary programs for commercial engagement in their ocean mapping Enterprise excuse me Mr Smith could you turn your mic on for us oh I'm sorry I can I can hear you but uh the recordings need to need that to pick it up um apologize for that uh
▶ 0:32:14Noah maintains three complimentary programs for commercial engagement in their ocean mapping Enterprise the hydrographic surveys contract administered by Coast survey the uncrewed maritime systems idiq administered by omo and the ocean explor Cooperative Institute administered by o these programs work together are well coordinated and each has additional capacity Beyond which has been appropriated in recent years and one of my last acts as a public servant in 2020 was to co-chair the inter agency
▶ 0:32:44NCH Council to develop a strategy to fully map all us Waters the deeper Parts by 2030 and the shallower parts by 2040 the longer time Horizon on shallower Waters recognized that the country did not have the capacity to efficient ently survey the vast unmapped areas of US continental shelf and Great Lakes using conventional ships instead NCH called for acceleration of R&D and Rapid adoption of emerging ocean Technologies such as autonomous platforms that could scale to the scope of the
▶ 0:33:14challenge when I retired from Noah I remembered this unmet technology Challenge and sought out a company that could meet it ex oan stood out from other UNC crude survey vessel companies in that it not only designed and produced the USV but it but had built an entire company around efficiently operating them and had a Clear Vision for scaling it quickly into the ocean mapping Enterprise ocean is now ex ocean is now building its 31st USV we've been able to adapt our vessels over the years as we've learned from
▶ 0:33:44our o own high-tempo operations this year we're planning for over 2500 days at Sea in Europe Australia and North America our clients include offshore energy utilities government and science institutions we're on the contract framework for hydrographic surveys in the United Kingdom in Canada and Australia as well as Noah idiq for data buy from uncrewed Maritime systems we've operated in 23 different jurisdictions around the world our all remote Staffing models allows us to use both
▶ 0:34:14the usvs and our expert staff very efficiently for example when the weather is too rough to for surveying in one area the watch standers and surveyors can be assigned to a different vessel in a different location entirely where the the weather is good our technical experts keep the reliability worldclass by remotely resolving most problems at Sea ex Ocean's operational model scales well from Fast mobilization for short projects with a single boat uh in hazardous areas to huge projects with multiple boats at
▶ 0:34:45sea for months on end some companies and government agencies are seeking to take advantage of new observing technology by purchasing equipment and operating it to themselves or Contracting it for its operation ex ocean has has chosen not to sell its vehicles um we've we've seen that this approach leads to low utilization rates poor reliability and shortened technological lifespan as the systems fall out of use after just a few years ex oan has chosen not to uh sorry uh we can deliver
▶ 0:35:15better results for our clients at a lower cost by operating the usvs ourselves maintaining them meticulously and keeping the whole Fleet up to date with our latest technology we take all the risk and deliver the data the client needs to their specifications this year's Noah ocean mapping progress report shows that 46% of us waters are still unmapped of this Gap I estimate that proven scalable and affordable USB platforms could efficiently meet around onethird with the technology now in demonstration
▶ 0:35:45phase that could rise to 2/3 within 5 years the remaining third may require highly capable vessels uh like the ones that Noah operates for the more complex exploration and and characterization work there there are two potential policy changes that Congress could continue could consider to accelerate the adoption of new technologies into Noah's ocean mapping programs first this technology and Industry is advancing very quickly and Noah is not scheduled to reconsider participants in its hydrographic surveys
▶ 0:36:15contract until 2029 a midcycle review with the potential to add additional capacity with new capabilities could allow Noah to access the latest technology earlier while leaving the existing panel in place Place second uh the uxs so administered BYO executes its hydrographic scope through the hydrographic survey's contract which is was not include any companies that specialized in Ms as a result Noah is limiting its breadth of opportunities for programs to gain experience with established
▶ 0:36:46autonomous survey companies thank you and I welcome any questions thank you Mr Smith uh next I'd like to recognize Dr um Lan for her thank you chair Bowen uh CH chair Franklin ranking member Amo and members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today uh I'm Margaret Lan Vice Chancellor for Marine Science at
▶ 0:37:16UC San Diego and director of scripts institution of oceanography one of the world's oldest and most respected ocean research institutions since 19 1903 we worked closely with federal agencies and Noah since its Inception to advance science train leaders and address environmental challenges scrips has long L innovation in deep ocean research mapping and monitoring core to our security
▶ 0:37:46the blue economy that we're focused on today and competitiveness for example our marine physical lab has supported Navy undersea technology since World War II too and continues to train active duty Navy and Veterans today many security Innovations began in academic Labs like ours and scale up through our Partnerships with Noah NASA Department of Defense and the Coast Guard while Al scripts examples
▶ 0:38:16today every oceanographic institution has similar stories of collaboration Noah at scrips we host Noah Affiliated programs including California SE Grant a Noah Cooperative Institute and the Southern California Coastal ocean observing system these Partnerships extend Noah's reach by leveraging our investment and infrastructure through these efforts scripts deploys ocean observing
▶ 0:38:46Technologies like Argo floats spray gliders and buoys critical for forecasting weather and extreme weather managing fisheries and ensuring public safy safety we're also advancing biogeochemical Argo which measures how the ocean absorbs carbon and is uh and is going to be useful for looking at Marine carbon dioxide removal we're also deploying deep Argo floats that contribute to Next Generation seafloor mapping
▶ 0:39:17with their ability to um to go to full ocean depth expanding these arrays will fill vital data gaps in merot ocean regions we support inter agency mapping and exploration for example we recently de led a deep sea mapping Mission around Guam and palao with Noah and DOD this was to support National Security and assessments closer to home we
▶ 0:39:47surveyed two post World War II deep sea DDT dump sites uh using UNC crude systems with help from Noah's California Cooperative Oceanic Fisheries investigation program a 75-year Time series of the region we're tracing this pollution through the food web from the past to the present creating a model for addressing Legacy Nationwide these capabilities serve local communities
▶ 0:40:18too we provide real-time flood forecasting and pollution tracking to agencies like the Port of San Diego the San Diego Airport the city of San Diego and the navy bases in San Diego helping the city and our Naval Partners prepare for Co Coastal hazards because of the partnership with Noah this is Noah science in action at the street level protecting lives and infrastructure through the
▶ 0:40:48partnership we're also developing the ocean Workforce many of our undergraduates and graduate students go on to public or private sector roles startups through programs like our start blue accelerator funded by Noah and the economic development Administration just in the first two years we supported 22 early stage ocean companies from our students and faculty and help them raise over $10 million from this
▶ 0:41:18very early stage to bring their science to market to continue this momentum Federal and sustained Federal investment is essential specifically and particularly in ships observing systems and platforms and research infrastructure these are long-term commitments that are very difficult to restart once interrupted Noah plays a critical role in bridging that Gap and thank you for your continued
▶ 0:41:49support of Noah's Partnerships with Academia these are essential to our national security our economic growth environment Al resilience and Workforce Development thank you thank you Dr Lon and finally our our Final witness Dr Tim Jansen for his testimony thank you chairman Babin um chairman Franklin ranking member Amo um and members of the committee uh thank you for the opportunity to testify today about you know um the future of blue economy
▶ 0:42:19Innovation and the role that um public private Partnerships play in accelerating ocean technology and driving economic growth and benefit the uh the security and well-being of Americans um my name is Tim Jansen I am an oceanographer first um and I'm also CEO and co-founder of sfire ocean um we are based in California we uh employ about a 100 people um we build everything we build here in the United States
▶ 0:42:50um our goal as a company is to accelerate ocean digitization uh to power the transition into an information econ economy U and eventually ocean artificial intelligence and to that end uh we built sensors uh we own and operate the largest uh privately owned ocean sensor network uh in the world um we are a leader in in Maritime weather intelligence um our software application wayfinder routes large commercial ships uh at Sea
▶ 0:43:20every day uh to improve safety um increase the efficiency reduce fuel cost and and reduce emissions so wayfinder think of it as Google Maps with large commercial ships um throughout history our ocean and coastlines have been a principal economic driver um an a major strategic opportunity um and a critical part of both our ecosystem and our weather system the uh future
▶ 0:43:50economic growth and strategic development U will for a large extent be data driven right through powered by advances rapid advances in artificial intelligence now the challenge with ocean artificial intelligence is not artificial intelligence the challenge with ocean AI is data the reason why large uh language models llms like the ones that power say Chet gbt why they work
▶ 0:44:21is because they have an internet to train on uh in contrast you know information and data in the ocean exceedingly sparse and mostly non-existent to put that in perspective if we were to equate all the information and data that we collect as Humanity in a single year and equate that to the distance from here to the Sun then the amount of data that we capture from the ocean in that same year could be estimated about the length of a football field and so this is about to change like rapid advances
▶ 0:44:51in technology and bringing iot into the ocean this will now rapidly change and so we are at an inflection point and we have to choose whether we want to lead or follow and if we want to lead that means that we have to double down in investing in technical Innovation and set audacious goals and the United States has an incredible track record in doing so uh through long-term investments in basic research we have some of the best universities and
▶ 0:45:21scientists in the world we also have the best private industry and capital markets to invest in those Technologies scale them up and build for impact but investors cannot invest if the market is unknown or the risk is too high and the ocean information economy is new and appears mostly to be unfamiliar as an economic opportunity and so we need very strong public
▶ 0:45:52private Partnerships to reduce the risk of Technologies and build up those markets and to give you an example of what a successful partnership looks like so far built bristlemouth it's a strange word but what it means is basically an open source standard for marine application so think of it as you know open source USB for the ocean sort of a foundational um enabling technology necessary to bring iot to the ocean for everyone now bristlemouth
▶ 0:46:22could not and would not have existed without the partnership of organizations like the Office of Naval Research um and the National Oceanic and um Atmospheric Administration Noah and several other government organizations and philanthropic organizations in the United States uh through these Partnerships bristle mouth is now uh blossoming is widely adopted and we've just announced a partnership with miter to accelerate this to unlock ocean
▶ 0:46:53intelligence now through the national oceanographic partnership program uh we worked with Noah to deploy sensors in front of uh active hurricanes so to get real-time data to improve forecasts and improve basically predictability of hurricanes Francine uh Milton and helain um we work with the United States Navy to explore how our data and our commercial software U for routing ships can support the Navy Mission um and we work with the National Data bu Center and IUS to
▶ 0:47:23explore how our Technologies can be integrated into the network effectively and so um I just want to point out that basically these examples lead to the conclusion that um to win in the ocean opportunity and to lead we need strong public private Partnerships and to do that we need strong government organizations that have the funding um the prioritization and the ability to work with private companies like so far and others and so
▶ 0:47:53um I would like to leave you with three actionable recommendations for your consideration um first reauthorize the weather act this sets up and maintains many foundational public private Partnerships including the national massanet program second prioritize the development of foundational Technologies through Noah and other federal agencies to support Market drivers for emerging Marine technology and maintain us leadership third streamline procurement
▶ 0:48:23processes and emphasize flexible Contracting mechanisms to accelerate public private Partnerships government contracts even zero cost contracts like Kratos are slow and unnecessarily complicated this should change um incentivizing companies to engage with federal agencies through effective contract mechanisms will increase competition and will enable and make it easier to provide access to Cutting Edge Technologies for the government now with Congressional
▶ 0:48:54support for public private Partnerships and a continued commitment to Ocean research at Noah and other organizations we are in a position to accelerate and transform the US blue economy into an information economy you know we can do that while bolstering our national security ensure the health and safety of both our Coastal communities and Coastal infrastructure and Safeguard our oceans uh for future Generations thank you again for the opportunity to testify
▶ 0:49:24look forward to your questions thank you Dr Jansen I thank the witnesses all for your testimony and I re now recognize myself for five minutes for some questions and back with you Dr Jansen I I particularly zeroed in on your your uh testimony about AI uh this committee kind of ran point last year uh when we did the AI task force that the science space and Technology committee was kind of the the core of that group even though it crossed all disciplines across Capitol Hill here um growth in AI as we know we it's exponential it's ubiquitous it's now
▶ 0:49:55on the tip of everyone's tongue and everywhere we go now uh and we have to continue to lead I I appreciate what you said we're either going to lead or we're going to follow uh how uh with respect to bristlemouth can you tell me a little bit more about that and how it's driving The Cutting Edge data trans data simulation techniques uh the decision to go open source uh we we debated that a lot in our task force last year there's pros and cons but in the case of of of what you guys have done with bristell M can you talk a little bit about uh that decision
▶ 0:50:25yeah I can um first first off I think it's it's really important to to to see sort of like the the state of where we're at um this is still very very nent in terms of like technology development in the ocean um as a result I think one of the most important thing is that we should not think in zero sums the sum is small we should increase the sum and so with bristl mouth um and this is part of like you if you think about AI we need to get to Abundant data one way or the other right um without that AI cannot exist we used to have models
▶ 0:50:55that could understand physics because we put the physics in there and then we just need data to start them now we need basically data to teach these models what physics looks like so we need a lot more data than we ever did before but the opportunity is massive now if you think about where it starts it's sensing and so today um the state of the-art in sort of like Marine sensing technology is roughly equivalent to you getting handed a mouse with bare wires and you're going to have to figure out how to make that work with your computer um pre USB desktop Computing even if a plug looks like it fits
▶ 0:51:25the other one if you put them together usually one of the sides starts to smoke and certainly nothing is going to work um and so that's where the first hurdle starts to scale sensing we need to make interconnectivity of Hardware uh much simpler just like we did with USB with Incredible outcomes and so bristle mouth is exactly that the decision to open source was not free like as a company we would have not open sourced it because it's expensive and we could not justify the investment it would have been valuable for us and we would have just done that but by
▶ 0:51:55partnering up with the government and wanting to make it open source because still the benefit to us would be equal but the benefit to society and the this the ocean Community would be massive uh we decided to do that with support from philanthropy you know the Office of Naval Research and Noah um and so it is a decision that costs money it's a decision that will have to be made sort of like carefully um but I think it's the right decision the most important thing is that we get ourselves out of the hole and get to large-scale
▶ 0:52:25Ocean as quickly as possible very good all right uh my hometown is Lakeland Florida we're home of Noah's aircraft operations center we have the hurricane Hunters I had the privilege along with representative Frost last year to go up in Hurricane Milton at the time we flew into it it was I think the fourth or fifth strongest storm in the Atlantic Basin on on record uh exciting Journey uh my hats offer to the men and women who who fly those missions all the time they provide very critical data that we need as these storms are evolving to keep our people
▶ 0:52:56safe uh but they can only paint the hurricane Hunters only paint a part of the picture of these storms and ocean data can unlock the true driving forces Behind These storms we're lacking realtime information to complement the aircraft data for all of you I'd love to get your thoughts on some of the operational technology you're you're either using or developing or seeing coming down the track that can assist Noah in unlocking these driving forces Behind These hurricanes and Mr Jers if you want to start that one sure probably on this panel
▶ 0:53:26not the best guy to answer but but I think the the the bandwidth availability globally now means that we get data available quickly Margaret was talking in the in the an room coming in about bio geochemical floats that are actually making making analysis of genomes and then transmitting that data back all the time we're seeing that in the commercial world with bandwidth availability all over the globe where we can remotely control usvs rovs others with
▶ 0:53:56without people in the field so I think bandwidth development and availability um is a is a key breakthrough for us Mr Smith if I could answer it slightly differently because uh the one of the things we're interested in is the impacts of this of the storms as well and we've done a lot of work in coastal mapping uh both at ex ocean of course at Noah um on on the uh theun on the runup the storm runup models um for storm surge and uh what program a project that
▶ 0:54:26ocean did for Noah a couple years ago was exactly that in the coast of North Carolina for uh for updating those storm surge models to be able to understand what the what the impact was of the storm okay Dr Lon yes um so one of the critical uh elements for hurricanes is their intensity and the intensity is C is related to the heat in the upper Ocean and the the importance of that and the
▶ 0:54:56dominance of that was actually developed by a University of Rhode Island oceanography Professor Isaac Guinness uh and the the key there is that it's not just the temperature of the surface which you can get from satellites but you also you have to have the heat of the entire upper layer of the ocean and that demands robotic capabilities so that's a really important factor there on the west coast uh we're more concerned with atmospheric Rivers than
▶ 0:55:26hurricanes uh and they cause uh tremendous amount of damage those are an an oceanic phenomenon and in order to be able to predict them and to determine how strong they are and they have a scale a five-point scale just like hurricanes do you have to have the information from the ocean and the atmosphere interaction with it and as you and I discussed the hurricane uh flights during the non- hurricane season are out on the west coast right looking at
▶ 0:55:56atmospheric River Recon and not only is that important for the storms that hit exactly on the coast but those RI those atmospheric river systems go Inland they're lifted up in U by the mountains and they're responsible for the the huge snow events and the severe storms in the Rockies and in Colorado in fact the The Avalanches earlier this year were the direct result of an atmospheric River so this uh this ability
▶ 0:56:27to set up the observations that allow us to make these predictions for extreme weather events are critical and I think the the the work by Dr Guinness was uh taking place during the 80s and 90s the work for atmospheric Rivers is taking place now and then that work eventually is handed off to the ability of the private sector to be able to do these kinds of measurements and it's tremendous to be here
▶ 0:56:57and watch these companies which have uh have oceanographers working with them take the the results from that early research and turn it into products and services for all of us and Noah is the glue in the middle of that between the academic world and the private sector World thanks Dr lion Dr James I'm gonna have to get back to you separately on that out of respect for my colleagues I I'd now like to turn it over to the ranking member from Rhode Island for five minutes of questions thank you very much M Mr
▶ 0:57:27chairman um look uh I think we've seen that the actions of Donald Trum Trump and Elon Musk have upended Awards uh up outright cancelling already awarded grants for critical ocean research and development initiatives uh installing scientific progress that's a fact uh Trump and his right hand are stifling the development of the next generation of marine scientists uh and experts their actions have already forced
▶ 0:57:58universities across our nation to preemptively reduce staff cut student admissions due to the loss of federal fun funding so Dr Lan at a high level can you give me a sense of how the the Trump administrations uh pauses and cancellations of Grants has harmed the Community uh as I thought about uh the impact of Workforce in advance of this hearing I reached out to eight other oceanographic
▶ 0:58:29institution directors including uh URI and uh asked them about their admissions for this year for graduate study most of them are had been accepting about 50 students a year all of us have decreased our admissions by half so just and and those were just reaching out very quickly and would you say that's sort of a sort of an estimate that it could be worse well I think that that is their estimate I
▶ 0:58:59think what could be worse is that that's just eight and so this is going on around the country but the for the eight of us that's 200 students who will not be enrolled in graduate programs who can't go on to be in companies like this just in one year well and and and I think it's important to say that's 200 innovators who are off the field were not in the game who are not contributing to the great public private
▶ 0:59:29Partnerships that we've highlighted today I I'd like to ask everybody else on the the panel with that in mind how would a declining technical Workforce impact your business right you want to grow how how is this going to make a difference uh on all of you and how does it frankly hurt our overall Pursuits in the blue economy start with Mr childis good good good question I think for for us for ocean earing um
▶ 1:00:00the the science and technologist that that we hire are are not necessarily related to oceanographic and oceanographic research they're more applied technology people um clearly we need we need a a robust student body coming out we hire um thousands of employees every year have for the last the last four years um but not not for us not particularly scientist um these are applied Mr Smith I know you have deep experience at Noah
▶ 1:00:30from your perspective we do I I I do um I'd say from ex otions point of view we have we have some really top-notch scientists um who obviously benefited from programs like these in the past um but I would say our clients are also would have been in these types of cadres so the you know both the the the mapping director for BP or uh other big companies like that would have also been scientists that were part of this community um and so by
▶ 1:01:00by by eroding that capacity um it it's not just on the provider side it's on the client side as well um and I I I will just say you know from my experience at Noah that that the power of Noah is is in those really incredible people that team that they've put together over decades um that that really I was proud to represent a team like that internationally and Inter agency um no finer part of government um and with the assemblage of talent all of which relies on this on this this Foundation
▶ 1:01:30thank you Mr Smith Dr Jansen yes somebody once told me that a company is basically people in processes um and so if you impact the talent pool you're going to impact basically the success of a company uh ultimately it relies on bringing in exceptional talent and cross disciplines you know partially from ocean science um like institutions like scripts and others um but also a lot of software engineering obviously so um yeah investing in Talent education uh and the future of basically our Workforce
▶ 1:02:01is is essential for the successful startups you know this is seems like an obvious um you know statement you know sometimes the obvious things uh uh don't Inspire the action that we deserve and so I think ultimately there's a chilling effect uh that isn't necessarily seen in this year's admissions or next year's admissions but extends for a while and uh I'm grateful for your leadership and but we need to give you the people to get the work done with that I yield back thank you mrmo I'd
▶ 1:02:31now like to recognize the chairman Dr bin yes sir thank you very much appreciate all of you uh Witnesses being here and giving us your testimony earlier this month The Wall Street Journal published an article titled China is mapping the seabed to unlock new Edge in Warfare this article provided in alarming detail how China is supercharging its ocean mapping and drilling Enterprise meanwhile here in the United States a Texas A&M research
▶ 1:03:01vessel The Joint oceanographic institutions for deep Earth sampling resolution ended operations four years earlier than expected last year in 2024 Mr chis how do how do us ocean exploration capabilities compare with other nations capabilities what are the risks to critical National research and and strategic interest if we fall behind in this area if you could answer those
▶ 1:03:31yes sir and and again not not an expert on other countries I think the capability here in the United States is extraordinary when when deployed um I agree a th% o Coastal mapping is is critical um the E mapping is critical for everything that we do whether it's development of resources whether it's deployment of our military um whether it's for the the economic benefit F that's generated within 50 miles of our coastlines um critical in the in the technology here and
▶ 1:04:01our superiority in this technology I think is is Paramount to future success that's great and uh I would also remind us that remind everybody here that 2024 was not the Trump Administration that occurred during the Biden Administration Mr chers again sticking with you for a moment in my opening statement I mentioned that Oceaneering is really good at developing dual du use Technologies uh can you tell us more about how this is important to public private Partnerships
▶ 1:04:32both from your perspective on the industry side and ours on the government side yes sir and and great question our our public private and and dual use is actually reversed from from the typical one in that typically what we've done is developed in the commercial world and translated it into the government world for instance as I mentioned earlier our onshore remote operating centers we developed that for an energy application and we developed it to to really improve safety and reduce emissions and that same
▶ 1:05:02core technology now is being deployed with the defense Innovation unit in the US Navy um furthermore in the development of specialty systems for the US government we've taken what we do globally and remember we operate um two 250 work class ROV so think six ton robots that operate down to 3 or 4,000 meters um 365 days a year 24 hours a day seven days a week with 6,000 offshore Personnel that capability deploys
▶ 1:05:32very well when you think about the government having similar type systems so if you think about the Noah having a fleet the of usvs that need to be operated our direct experience and doing that all over the globe um I ROV people don't like it but I call it the McDonald's of of uh of ROV if you go to McDonald's in Beijing and you get a Big Mac it tastes like a Big Mac if you go anywhere in the world you get an Oceaneering ROV to go do a job it's going to operate exactly the same way with the same reliability and 99% uptime and I think
▶ 1:06:02that commercial Focus drives directly into what the government could do to really promote Mass data aggregation and data collection right thank you very much and I Mr chairman I'll yield back thank you thank you chairman next uh I'd like to give five minutes for questioning to my colleague from North Carolina Miss Ross thank you Mr chairman and thank you so much to all of our WT is for being here as you know North Carolina has a large Coast on the ocean um I don't represent that
▶ 1:06:32area but um I've adopted it um because it's just so wonderful and we have industries that um you know span tourism to fishing to the potential for offshore wind and it's so important that we have a forward looking approach to dealing with our Coast in North Carolina and then of course all over the country um I want to um also let you know that Noah plays a huge role both in my
▶ 1:07:02district and on the coast I've um visited several Noah facilities and know that you know they're there are scrappy little agency they do a lot with very little and um when we talk about cutting waste Fraud and Abuse I would say probably the last agency I would think about for that would be Noah um So to that end the current Administration is significantly reducing funding and pulled or paused
▶ 1:07:33Federal contracts for critical ocean research and development initiatives these Cuts not only hinder scientific progress but also create uncertainty for private sector Partners who rely on federal support to drive Innovation and maintain us leadership in ocean science um and I'd like to ask this question of each of you how is existing ocean research and monitoring infrastructure currently supported so
▶ 1:08:03does Noah play a huge role in it or is it kind of the glue that puts you know brings things together and then what is the likelihood of industry building and supporting this infrastructure absent public investment and partnership with Noah and so please whoever's motivated to go first I'd like to hear but I'd like to hear from all of you I I can go um so as I mentioned it's it's essential to have
▶ 1:08:33strong Partnerships there is no scenario where Private Industry could simply take over um I I think the the value of both sides is that we are operating in a different space with different mandates um a company can only operate when there is a market driver uh we have to make money we have to make a profit because otherwise we do not exist right um the the government has a different mandate I mean they are there for the public need and there is a lot of overlap and we can help and assist each other and I think we can get much better at that as I've tried
▶ 1:09:03to outline in my statement um but I I think it's important to understand that rather than know getting rid of the government is setting them up for success to working more effectively perhaps with Partners in Private Industry so we can move faster together so I'll hand it over next thank you Dr Lon yes it's an interesting question who does the observations and here too it's an ecosystem I think
▶ 1:09:34that NSF and Office of Naval Research really work at the development of ideas for instruments and technology and they also uh do the campaigns that allow us to understand processes so that we can attach the observations to the processes and that's a critical part of being able to use those observations effectively but neither of them are
▶ 1:10:04agencies that that are in the long-term uh synoptic persistent uh observation business they're in the development and the process business and it's Noah who is the partner for uh you know persistent synoptic observation and that's uh you know that's a great system in which you're not having a lot of redundancy in that and I
▶ 1:10:34shouldn't forget NASA with satellites that's another critical piece so the four of them together give have given us just a an incredible ecosystem for observation and we don't want to lose it great Mr Smith and Mr childis real quick I was in uh Wilmington North Carolina last week for the hydrographic uh uh the hydrographic society's annual conference um there were very few Noah people current Noah people
▶ 1:11:04there but if I'd done a poll of the room to see who had started or spent any time of their part of their career with Noah it would have been a huge huge percentage of the room uh including the leaders uh of many of the commercial organizations there so that is the that's the that's the role Noah plays in the US hydrographic community so you really clear leadership um and and I wouldn't I wouldn't want to speculate what the US hydrographic Community would look like without no I hope we don't have to see it thank you Mr childis I know we have we're a little over
▶ 1:11:34time just quickly the biggest thing for us is weather forecasting we have vessels and people working offshore and those offshore weather forecasts are absolutely critical for us economically and safety thank you and I yield back thank you representative Ross next I'd like to recognize our only landlocked member of the subcommittee representative herd from Colorado thank you very much chairman Franklin and reing member ammo for holding this important uh Committee hearing it is indeed true that Colorado is landlock we don't touch the ocean you don't think of blue economy Technologies in Colorado
▶ 1:12:05typically together but it's really important uh what we're talking about here today Mr chairman and also uh Dr Janson did remind me that Noah does operate the national geophysical data center out of Boulder Colorado in my home state so my question I'm going to start with uh Mr Childress Mr Shepard and then Dr uh Jansen um blue energy economy or blue energy blue economy Technologies and federal research programs behind them span multiple agencies NASA Noah
▶ 1:12:35EPA and close coordination between these agencies and industries is really important um as industry leaders in economy Technologies I'd like to hear from each of you about which federal agencies do you work with and engage with most often and what actions if any can Congress to improve the public private Partnerships and enhance us competitiveness in this space I'm going to start with you Mr childr yeah we're going to we'll throw a curveball here our our biggest
▶ 1:13:05customer is the Department of the Navy um our second biggest customer is NASA um when it comes to space but I but I have thought considerably about about this how how do we improve public private partnership and and I think there are three things there I think one is better definition and clearer swim Lanes between agencies eliminate the overlap and make it clear where to go and where to engage um number two is a technology road map that that is very similar to what NASA does NASA has a hundred years they say they want to go to Jupiter they say here
▶ 1:13:35are all the things that we can't do to get to Jupiter I think the same thing we need that for the ocean and then the third thing is I I'll repeat what what Shep said earlier and that is or or Tim said it actually the the Contracting mechanisms it's owner us to do business at times the Contracting mechanisms are complicated you need your own specialty legal people in order to do the contract so I think if you could find ways to simplify that that would go a long way thank you Mr childis uh Mr Smith uh so we work we work with Noah and uh and with and with B the Bureau
▶ 1:14:06of ocean Energy Management um for offshore wind regulation um but potentially potentially a client for uh for for science as well um and I I I think the uh the you know for the for the Noah side I I made a couple of comments in my testimony already about some of the contractual mechan isms that could be helpful um I do want to comment though that that you know committees like this have have asked us over the years us Noah um in the old days about coordination and it's gotten
▶ 1:14:36so tight in recent years through the the the iocm program and others where there's the the possibility of duplication um or and and and the the capture of synergy have gotten so much better um so I think we should all feel confident that investing in mapping in these programs is a responsible thing to do there's no duplication of effort it's well coordinated thank you uh Mr Smith uh Dr Jansen uh what agencies do you engage with most often and how can Congress improve that public
▶ 1:15:06private partnership yeah we work mostly with the Office of Naval Research um Noah US Navy um anything such as water basically um the uh the biggest challenges I think for smaller companies and we are definitely the smaller organization here in this room um is is timing and complexity um both are really hard to deal with um if things take time like for instance a contract or something else it means that basically the clock is ticking for a small company we you focus on efficiency and moving fast uh
▶ 1:15:36that is a challenge as I pointed out earlier Contracting complexity um this is very simple to simplify um to my mind and also I think I would recommend to move more to Milestone based contracts rather than effort-based like focus on the outcomes like we are willing to take the risk we're comfortable with that we do that all the time in in sort of like our other contracts and it would basically help us to move faster have less of a liability on the government side and budget responsibility and move that over to our side so those are things I think that would be you know help us you
▶ 1:16:06know understand how the process works so we don't have to spend so much time figuring it out U move fast in Contracting and simplify just keep it as simple as possible and we're happy to take on more risk wonderful thank you Dr Jansen Dr Len I don't want to leave you without a question um can you tell us is Noah taking full advantage of the commercially dat commercially available data currently um and if not is this an infrastructure problem or they just not are they choosing to simply not use the data no I
▶ 1:16:37don't I don't think that uh Noah is not taking advantage of it and you've heard from the partners here about Noah being a customer of theirs and I think that uh you know Noah invests in things that uh or takes on observations like Argo that are still uh that require a lot of of uh research expertise and they also make all of that data available free and
▶ 1:17:07openly and then they work with uh Partners to be able to uh take on the uh the specific area observations that are of interest to them to fill in much large the details uh of the big synoptic programs very good thank you very much Mr chairman I yield back thank you Mr herd and we have uh someone who should be in in just a moment so we'll pause for just a just a
▶ 1:17:37couple seconds let them get in for
▶ 1:18:28all right and the chair now recognizes Mr begets from Alaska for five minutes questioning thank you Mr chairman uh my first question to Dr Jansen um in your written testimony you emphasize the open- source bristlemouth platform as the USB of the ocean helping expand plug-and-play sensor networks what would it take to bring bristlemouth enabled sensor arrays to the Arctic and Nearshore Waters of Alaska it's already there
▶ 1:18:59it is okay that's great and tell me tell me more about how it's being utilized in Alaska yeah so we uh we we work with uh the National Science Foundation to create the Becky boy program um and and the point of you bringing this instrument here is to Showcase how simple and small it is and the whole point was to bring it out in places where traditional you know traditionally information was not available and particularly in places that are highly sensitive to changes in weather and climate um and you know bringing the ability to have local folks
▶ 1:19:29deploy the sensors and get data in real time at places with they carbot for Fisheries or others and so uh these sensors are now in Alaska uh we deployed them also with the ice center uh in the Arctic um they last through the winter time um you can have moing systems that allow you through bristlemouth to put other sensors onto it and so the whole point is that you don't need us anymore to like put other sensors and things that you care about um you can put a on it you can then over the a update the firm rare on that subsurface sensor
▶ 1:19:59without touching anything else in the other system now this is table stakes in modern iot like nobody would be surprised if your iPhone could do that but in the ocean that's a whole different thing so um I'm I'm glad to be able to tell you that basically it's already out there and uh we can expand that you know either through programs like the backyard uh program or Partnerships uh with universities and others that's that's fantastic can can you speak a little bit further about uh some of the sensor p packages uh that you have or that you're looking to deploy particularly as it might relate to the Arctic
▶ 1:20:30yeah um so we have a number of sensor Integrations um you know the basic stuff is that we have met ocean observations so waves winds currents uh water temperature air temperature barometric pressure uh we're now adding uh observation capabilities around underwater sound so we have um a long dwell low power um AI enabled hydrophone systems that can do detection C of uh vessels uh and mammals um and the cool thing is and this is important is the power
▶ 1:21:01um traditionally these systems would take anywhere from like you know between 5 and 10 watts which means it's very difficult to charge it from a small system this is a order of magnitude lower power usage so we can have it long dwell in places like the Arctic to listen for you know either uh underwater activity or Surface for instance rainfall um we also have water level sensors to be able to detect tsunamis and search searches um so effectively if you put this system you know on a moing with a pressure sensor on the bottom you effectively be able to measure the water t water level so you have
▶ 1:21:31title information uh search information for storms um or the ability to detect a tsunami so it's a again the whole point is and this is like the key take way this is all about scaling information like we're not building things that nobody's ever built before but we built them in a way that we can scale them up like a single exquisit data point in the ocean is pretty much useless it's a very big place and if you have one you know very exquisit data point it's not going to improve modeling it's not going to improve predictability very much um you need a lot of data and so focusing on data unit economics
▶ 1:22:01like how much data can we get per dollar um is sort of like a mind shift that we've implicitly made always right we bought a big instrument it's like could we have two more decimals of accuracy yeah you can and cost X more let's do it um or what if I tra that two decimal of accuracy because this is actually good enough for what I want to measure but I could have a thousand sensors out there and that's an implicit trade-off we've always made in the past and what we're inviting people is to make that trade off I love that that is fantastic you've got the ability to drive down those that that cost of acquisition and then have it persistent
▶ 1:22:32year round yes uh do you have any uh sort of line of sight on perhaps the ability to conduct or support um with adjunct data uh fish census activities that are currently happening through Noah yeah again for us it's just sitting down with the communities and the scientists and Noah and others to understand like what should we measure what kind of proxy measurements could we make to inform you know what the answer should be or what the inside is that we're trying to achieve and then
▶ 1:23:02again create a flexibility to add Those sensors and you know deploy them at scale um and it's it's the same recipe like you basically you want to understand like what is the problem we're trying to solve like start there that's your end user like the inside you're trying to solve for work your way back and like what is the data that we need so we don't start with a data Centric world view into sense like we have to you know collect xyc data we're trying to solve problems that are important and work our way down from like top priority like lower priority so um a problem like this would be like okay let's define what we're trying to solve for what do we need to measure
▶ 1:23:32and make sure that we have systems like bristlemouth uh to make that integration simple and make it possible to deliver that that's fantastic I appreciate your testimony and I yield back thank you Mr beit and uh I thank our Witnesses for being here with us this morning for your valuable testimony very interesting certainly for me and for members for for their questions uh the the record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written questions from Members we did have some who were not able to be here today so we'll have them submit questions for the record and with that the hearing is
▶ 1:25:53e for