▶ 0:23:18The subcommittee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. We welcome everyone here today on this hearing on waste, fraud, and abuse at the FBI. I now recognize the gentleman who should I pick on from Missouri to lead us in the flag salute.
▶ 0:23:40And we will stay standing for a moment of of the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all.
▶ 0:24:05Stay standing for a moment. I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. First of all, I want to welcome everyone to the second hearing of the subcommittee on Oversight.
▶ 0:24:31Today, we are continuing the important work we began in our first hearing, exposing the weaponization and politicizing of federal law enforcement agency against the American public. This time we'll be focusing squarely on the Federal Bureau of Investigation under the Biden administration. A bureau bloated by bureaucracy.
▶ 0:24:53A bureau that burned through billions, not millions, but billions of dollars in taxpayers dollars to chase political enemies. A bureau that silenced the scent and trampled on our constitutional rights. All while real threats to our safety were ignored. This doesn't just a leadership failure. It was a betrayal of the American people and of the American trust. This hearing is more than oversight.
▶ 0:25:22This is about restoring trust. This is about standing up for every American who believes that government should protect them, not target them. Let me be clear. The FBI should be a shield for the American people. Instead, under the Biden Harris administration, it became a sword to use against them. Let's start with parents. Parents who spoke up for their kids. Parents who voiced concerns about radical school agendas.
▶ 0:25:52What did they get in return? A surveillance file. A federal investigation for just trying to be a good parent. That's not law enforcement. In my book, and in most Americans books, that's intimidation. Let's talk about people of faith. The Biden FBI branded certain Catholic Americans as quote radical traditionalists and potential domestic terrorists.
▶ 0:26:20They even discussed infiltrating churches by having parishioners spy on their own people, by their own fellow parishioners. And it wasn't just Catholic churches. In 2021, the FBI raided a Hindu temple in the state of New Jersey. Using overwhelming force, agents stormed sacred ga grounds. And listen to this, they held guns to the faces of the holy men.
▶ 0:26:49They disrupted religious life. All based on loose, untrue allegations which are now thankfully unraveling in court. Our sacred places, our churches, our synagogues, our temples, our mosques, they should be sanctuaries, not scenes of government surveillance. Let's talk about free speech. The FBI knew Hunter Biden's laptop was real. They knew it.
▶ 0:27:18They colluded with big tech to frame it as Russian disinformation. They tried to bury the story from the American people. That wasn't law enforcement. That was raw political election interference. And all of this, the worst part of all, it wasn't free. It came with a price tag. In fiscal year 2024, listen to this.
▶ 0:27:44The FBI spent over six billion, not million, billion dollars on intelligence, counter intelligence, and counterterrorism, all on American soil. more than half of its entire budget. But instead of using those billions to fight violent crime or keep our communities safe, the money was funneled into politically driven investigations and abuses of power.
▶ 0:28:10The waste did not stop $220,000 paid to Igor Denchenko, a key source behind the discredited Steel Dossier, plus another $300,000 to that planned before the FBI can finally close him as a source. Up to 1 million offered to Christopher Steel to try and corroborate, which he couldn't do, his own baseless claims.
▶ 0:28:38200 million more secured for a new FBI headquarters, a reward in Gree Belt, Maryland, despite widespread public distrust and concern and strong opposition from the judiciary committee. And that is only scratching the surface. The FBI couldn't give us enough real numbers. And we're going to continue to pursue that and just find out how much this really cost us.
▶ 0:29:04For four long years under the Biden administration, Americans had to suffer through this. Groceries got more expensive, rent kept rising, families struggled to make ends meet, some working two or even three jobs just to stay afloat.
▶ 0:29:21And while they were scraping by, Americans working hard trying to survive, the federal government was using their hard-earned tax dollars not to help them, not to protect them, not to make things better, but to surveil them and fund political People People, and I'll use the vernacular, they're pissed off. They're tired. They're tired of it. and they have every right to be.
▶ 0:29:51They want the FBI focused on real threats. The southern border, cyber attacks, violent crimes in our neighborhoods and our cities, foreign adversaries that are hacking our elections, not on chasing down somebody you don't agree with, not on chasing down a political opponent. All of this, all of this pointed to a clear conclusion.
▶ 0:30:16The Biden FBI picks and chooses its priorities based on politics, not on public safety. And ladies and gentlemen, that is wrong. And if it weren't enough, whistleblowers tell us about a corrupt bonus structure, just to make it even worse. Bonuses for opening more cases, bonuses for inflating the numbers, bonuses for manipulating time sheets.
▶ 0:30:40Imagine being rewarded not for catching criminals, but for cooking the books. You couldn't make it up, but it's true. This is not a conspiracy theory. It's not a Republican talking point. It's not a political talking point. This isn't speculation.
▶ 0:31:00is is documented, well doumented abuse verified by brave whistleblowers and confirmed by this judiciary committee. Some may say, and good question, well, what are you doing about it? I'm going to tell you, we're working to fundamentally reform the FBI from the ground up. We are drafting legislation to reign in abuse, cut waste, and refocus the bureau on real threats to public safety.
▶ 0:31:29We are investigating every single dollar spent and every abuse of power uncovered. We are demanding accountability from those responsible and pressing for transparency at every single level. And yes, yes, we are exposing the truth because as they say, the truth shall set you free. The first step to real change is making sure the American people know exactly what's going on. What was done to them with their own money.
▶ 0:31:58That's the cruel part of it. By their own government, the crulest part of it. Director Cash Patel is leading a new FBI, one that returns to its roots, one that Americans can be proud of. He moved agents out of Washington DC, back into communities, back to fighting violent crimes as they should be. Attorney General Pam Bondi took swift and decisive action to dismantle the most politicized units within the Department of Justice.
▶ 0:32:29She redirected resources towards real law enforcement priorities, scaled back abusive practices, and made clear the DOJ's mission is to uphold the law, not to serve any political agenda. Any political agenda. You know, it's the old saying, if it happened to us, it can happen to you. This isn't Republican. This isn't Democrat. This is just doing the right thing together. They are rebuilding the bureau from the ground up.
▶ 0:32:59They're doing it the right way with transparency, with accountability, and with a focus on the Constitution of the United States of America. This is the FBI that the American people deserve. So today, we're going to hear from those who know the truth, former agents, insiders, people who saw firsthand what went wrong and what we can do to fix it.
▶ 0:33:27Because, you know, this isn't just about the past. It's about a better future. It's about restoring our faith in American institutions. It's about protecting our freedoms. It's about demanding that taxpayer dollars go to protecting Americans, not targeting them. The only way that we will understand where we are and where we want to go is by understanding where we were. It's about doing the right thing.
▶ 0:33:56I thank you and I look forward to this testimony testimony. I now will recognize the ranking member, Miss Crockett, for an opening statement. Thank you, Mr. chairman. And as I'm sure you can assume, we see this a little bit differently. Here we go again talking about Biden, Biden, and more Biden. Today is nothing more than a dog and pony show for Republicans to avoid facing the American people for their trash policies that are killing the economy and our democracy.
▶ 0:34:27Despite Republicans claim of backing the blue and being the party of law and order, we're here today because Republicans are willing to throw our country's top law enforcement agents under the bus to appease Trump and execute his political vengeance. Now, I know remembering things is hard for some of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, like remembering not to add reporters into a signal chat discussing military war plans.
▶ 0:34:53But let me remind my colleagues that it was Trump who decided to store national secrets and classified documents next to his oversized bathtub and toilet at Miraago. It was Trump who took the documents out of the boxes and shared them with his guest. It was Trump who told his staff to move the boxes when the FBI was coming. And it was Trump who appointed Director Christopher Ray as head of the FBI. The same director that allowed the investigation to move forward.
▶ 0:35:21As as much as Trump and Republicans hate to accept it, we are still a country with laws. And when you break them, there are consequences. Now, make no mistake, we should all be concerned about the FBI. But my concerns as ranking member of this subcommittee, as a member of Congress, and as an attorney, as well as a citizen, are based on things called facts. And when I say facts, I mean clear, indisputable facts, not those alternative facts.
▶ 0:35:50My Republican colleagues continue pushing onto the American people. So, let's talk about facts. Fact. Even prior to being confirmed by the Senate, Cash Patel was directing officials within the FBI to fire members within the bureau simply because they worked on the lawful investigations into Trump.
▶ 0:36:11Fact, Patel failed to disclose his previous work and financial ties with the country of Qatar, a country that had you had read the Maers report realized released last year by the House Oversight Committee, you would know paid close to half a million dollars to Trump while he was president of the United States.
▶ 0:36:31Unsurprisingly, the FBI's Foreign Influence Task Force was recently disbanded, and the DOJ also cut back on its Foreign Agents Registration Act enforcement. Our enemies are jumping up and down now that we're doing their work for them. Another fact, Patel has never even been an FBI agent and is now leading the bureau.
▶ 0:36:57Even one of today's Republican witnesses organizations, the Reform, the Bureau, has advocated having a FBI agent led by, I'm sorry, having a FBI agent lead the bureau. But rather than confirm a director with credible, dedicated experience, the Republicans confirmed a political loyalist with no quantico or FBI training. Talk about DEI didn't earn it higher.
▶ 0:37:27Another fact, Patel, who rails against teleawwork, what he calls lazy agents, was working part-time in and out of Las Vegas, commuting back and forth between there and DC while also living in the home of a GOP mega donor. Think about that for a second.
▶ 0:37:45Could you imagine what Republicans would have done had, say, James Comey had been living in New York part-time as the FBI director and if his New York home was owned by, say, George Soros? Speaker Johnson would have forced a floor vote on articles of impeachment within days of this news coming out. But nevertheless, my Republican colleagues are willing to sacrifice safety for stupidity as long as it's loyal.
▶ 0:38:14Another fact, Patel and Trumpbacked FBI leadership have redirected FBI agents who are working on investigations involving violent crimes against children and child exploitation and transferred them to work on anti-Tesla attacks and redacting Jeffrey Epstein files. Talk about FBI waste and abuse. You simply can't make this stuff up.
▶ 0:38:38To be clear, Director Ray testified before Congress last year, noting that, quote, "If each one of the FBI's cyber agents and intelligence analyst an analyst focus exclusively on the China threat, China's hackers would still outnumber FBI cyber personnel by at least 50 to Yet rather than hire more agents to protect against these cyber security threats, Director Patel
▶ 0:39:08is reassigning agents to redact Epstein files. Someone please tell me how this makes America safe. It's almost as ridiculous and wasteful as Patel's idea to contract the bureau with UFC fighters. And while I have very real concerns about the current state of the FBI today, I want to be very clear.
▶ 0:39:33My concerns aren't with career agents, the men and women dedicating their lives to protect our country and communities. It's with the irresponsible leadership and reckless decisions coming from Patel Trump and Doge staff within the FBI. Our bureau needs resources to do its job effectively. What it doesn't need is 20-some year old doge bags reviewing materials without having undergone proper vetting and clearance.
▶ 0:40:01The American people have a right to be worried, but these worries shouldn't be based on Republican baseless conspiracy theories. Our country is already on a dangerous path, pushing closer to causing irreparable harm. Republican members need to wake up and put Trump loyalties aside to engage in real oversight of the current FBI before it's too late. Congress deserves it. The brave men and women at the bureau deserve it.
▶ 0:40:28And the American people it. I want to add one more point. As a civil rights attorney, I have had to sue law There have been times that I can truly say that law enforcement has crossed the line and I truly believe that there can be one or two in a bunch that can ruin one.
▶ 0:40:56The problem that I have right now though is that we have decided to focus in on something that my Republican colleagues have decided to term as being political. What is political is when somebody says that they are going to come back and seek rep retribution. What is political is firing people because they simply were following the evidence and doing their jobs as law enforcement has been trained to do.
▶ 0:41:24And ultimately, regardless of whether or not anyone believes that it was right to indict the president, not once, not twice, not three, but four times he was indicted. Ultimately, each of you knows enough to know that at the end of the day, it is citizens that sit on a grand jury that are the ones that decide whether or not evidence exists to go forward with an indictment.
▶ 0:41:52And ultimately, when this president was convicted by a jury on the level, it was a jury of his peers. And so, I want to say thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for your commitment and thank you so much for the testimony that you will provide. With that, I will yield back. I'm now going to recognize the chairman of the full committee. Thank uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. The previous speaker talked about facts. Here's here's one fact I know.
▶ 0:42:21It's it's night and day dealing with the Bondi Patel Justice Department versus the Garland Ray Justice Department under under the the Pam Bondi as attorney general. The Foreign Influence Task Force that that group that was responsible for censoring Americans has been disbanded. The school board's memorandum has been rescended. We sent seven subpoenas to Cash Patel 5 weeks ago. The response we've gotten is unbelievable compared to what we got under the previous Justice Department. He's actually given us thousands of documents already.
▶ 0:42:51New information that we tried to get from director Ray that he wouldn't give us. We've already received. We'll be talking about some of that. So that that is the fact. Complete change from where we were with the previous justice department. The previous justice department of course that couldn't tell us who planted the pipe bombs, who leaked the do's opinion, who put cocaine at the White House. Couldn't tell us answers to those questions.
▶ 0:43:16But all they had plenty of time to put together the memo to say we're going to investigate moms and dads in a schoolboard meeting. As the chairman pointed out, they put together a memorandum. We've now learned it wasn't just in the Richmond field office, but in other field offices where they were equating pro-life Catholics to extremists. We know they raided the president's home. We know they retaliated against whistleblowers. They even put together that the previous speaker talked about politics. Politics.
▶ 0:43:42The FBI created a questionnaire where they asked their employees to about other employees who were maybe giving information to us as whistleblowers. Did that person support Trump? That is as political as you can get. So the real thing here is it's it's it's literally night and day the difference between the kind of information that we're able to receive, the help that we're getting, and the focus on going after traditional bad guys, not having half your agents and half your budgets focused on surveilling the American people.
▶ 0:44:12Let's go get the traditional bad guys. That's what Cash Patel is doing at the FBI, getting the FBI back to the mission they've had before, which I know some of our witnesses who serve there are going to talk about. So, I thank the chairman for putting this together and I thank our witnesses for being here and I yield back. Thank you, chairman. I'm going to now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and thanks to Miss Crockett for calling us together.
▶ 0:44:41We are um already 10 weeks into the Trump administration and still the Republicans are recycling the most tiresome, vacuous, and debunked stories conspiracy theories about the Biden administration while demurly declining to conduct any oversight at all of the current administration. And I agree with the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Jordan. It is day and night, but I think he's seeing day and night backwards.
▶ 0:45:09Donald Trump is turning our country into a gangster state where agencies like the Federal Trade Commission, the FBI, and the Department of Justice act as presidential enforcers conducting political deals with elected officials like New York City Mayor Adams.
▶ 0:45:27corporate shakedowns against ABC, CBS, and other media entities and law firms like Paul Weiss, Rifken, Wilmer Hail, and Jenner and Block, demanding pledges of loyalty from citizens, and in some cases demanding cold, hard cash in lawsuits brought directly by the president against private businesses.
▶ 0:45:50Meanwhile, they're offering mass pardons, immunity, and protection to insurrectionists, convicted drug beaters, and copers, drug traffickers, corrupt politicians, as long as they're willing to kiss the ring and do the president's bidding. Let's look at how this administration is treating the honest men and women of the FBI.
▶ 0:46:16In his first days in office, Trump targeted thousands of FBI agents simply for doing their jobs after the mob violence of January 6, 2021 and holding the copers and insurrectionist riers accountable. FBI agents had to sue to stop this purge and block them from publicly releasing their names to the violent militias like Oathkeepers and Proud Boys whom President Trump had already given pardons to.
▶ 0:46:44And those pardons, by the way, this Department of Justice are extending to other crimes these people have committed, including cocaine trafficking and gun charges. This administration isn't opposing corruption. It's opening the door wide open to corruption every single day for his friends. Donald Trump ordered the FBI to stop conducting background investigations of top White House officials. Why?
▶ 0:47:12He disbanded the FBI's foreign influence task force charged with identifying and combating malign foreign influence operations targeting the United States. Why? He suspended enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and reduced enforcement of the Foreign Agents Registration Act just two days after it was reported that Director Cash Patel had engaged in lucrative consulting work for Qatar and for a Vladimir
▶ 0:47:42Putin connected foreign arms conglomerate. The current FBI leadership is diverting the FBI's resources away from public safety and national security and towards mega conspiracy fixations and obsessions.
▶ 0:47:58According to press reports, hundreds of agents ordinarily assigned to defending the national security of the United States have been pulled into a mind-boggling effort where they were pulling all-nighters and working around the clock to review the Epstein files after Attorney General Bondi botched the first attempt at what she said was going to be a complete release of the Epstein Epstein files.
▶ 0:48:24So, it's important to consider what the FBI is not investigating in the frenzy of all these Back to the Future wild goose chases. They're not investigating Signal Gate, the extraordinary decision by a group of America's highest national security officials, including one who was in Moscow at the Kremlin at the time, to compromise the safety of our service members and intelligence officers by using Signal, a nonsecure commercial
▶ 0:48:55application to reveal specific, confidential, and classified details about an about an impending military airirst strike. strike, complete with timestamps for when F-18 aircraft would launch and arrive at their targets and when Tomahawk missiles would be fired at buildings controlled by Houthi members.
▶ 0:49:15What are DOJ and FBI doing to investigate this stunning dangerous episode of incompetence or recklessness at the very least that undoubtedly violates all kinds of federal, criminal and civil laws? Nothing. In fact, when asked about the signal chat, Attorney General Bondi changed the subject to Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. Sound familiar? That's what we're doing today. Just a week after the story broke about this tremendous security breach, she said, "Case closed.
▶ 0:49:45No further investigation, no lessons learned, no hearings. That's the end." Can you imagine what they would be doing if that had happened under President Biden? If his top national security team had been talking about a military strike on Signal, there would be eight special committees and subcommittees investigation and they'd all be demanding impeachment the way they're demanding impeachment of judges who blow the whistle on the illegalities of this administration. Well, what else is the FBI not investigating? Elon Musk.
▶ 0:50:15His startling ties to the Communist Party of China, the CCP. Musk is bulldozing our federal government while accessing the people's most sensitive databases. And he's traveled to China multiple times in the last several years and met with the highest level Communist Party officials. He's continued to open factories in China where he does half of his business. Even as he works as a quote special government employee to dismantle and destroy our federal government.
▶ 0:50:45Can you imagine if President Biden had done that? What our colleagues would be saying? Well, look, in this new state that we're in, the FBI is not here to enforce the law. It exists to allow the president to shake down businesses and individuals, offering them protection and immunity if they comply and persecution if they don't. The administration installed as the head of the FBI, Cash Patel, known for being the man who will do anything for Trump.
▶ 0:51:11They also installed his deputy director Dan Banino, a far-right podcaster and conspiracy theorist who boasted in 2018 that his entire life right now is about owning the libs. His appointment was a particular betrayal of Patel's promise that he would appoint a deputy director who would be an onboard active special agent as has been the case for 117 years. Already stories of intimidation and pressure in this DOJ and this FBI are trickling out.
▶ 0:51:41Seven veteran prosecutors were forced to resign rather than take part in a corrupt bargain to dismiss charges that were brought by a grand jury in New York against the mayor of New York, Eric Adams. The US attorney for the Southern District, Daniel Sassoon, who clerked on the Supreme Court for Justice Scalia and was active in the Federalist Society, resigned, saying nothing had changed in the facts of the case. Nothing had changed in the law of the case, nothing had changed in the evidence.
▶ 0:52:09It was simply this political deal that Donald Trump had cooked up with the mayor of New York who traveled down to Mara Lago. the longtime criminal chief in the DS in the DC US attorney's office was forced to resign rather than open the current bogus investigation into Biden era clean energy projects. So what we see at the Trump FBI and DOJ is part of a broad pattern.
▶ 0:52:32They're targeting lawyers who took up causes or clients that Donald Trump doesn't like and they've issued illegal executive orders intended as threats against them. The president and his friends are threatening federal judges that ruled against them to halt their blatantly illegal executive actions, calling for impeachment of the judges. And there have been threats against their families made online.
▶ 0:52:54The president and his friends are threatening journalists and deporting legal immigrants for exercising their First Amendment rights, sending a clear message to anyone thinking of speaking up against the administration. The FBI's leadership are threatening to take the FBI down a very dangerous path today. one that's entirely incompatible with the values of the men and women of the FBI and the best traditions of the agency.
▶ 0:53:18Once again, with today's hearing, my colleagues are turning a blind eye to what's going on right now, choosing instead to regurgitate and recycle debunked and discredited lies about the Biden administration and somebody having uh an investigation into uh parents and school boards that's been debunked a million times. That was an investigation into people making violent death threats against school board members. Nobody was ever arrested. Nobody was ever charged with anything.
▶ 0:53:48And yet they've been dining out on that. I think it's for 5 years now. Talking about something that led nowhere and there was nothing wrong with it in the first place. So the men and women of the FBI deserve to know that Congress is watching and we've got your back. We're not going to stand idly by while this administration tries to turn the FBI into an arm of a pay-to-play gangster state. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Real quick, you know, gentleman said that these aren't facts.
▶ 0:54:18They're debunk theories. They are facts and we have it on video. We have the attorney general apologizing for what happened and what they did. We have the director of the FBI finally having to apologize for what they did. We have Mark Zuckerberg apologizing for what was done and that's only scratching the surface. I can't go into all of it.
▶ 0:54:38Um I will now without objection all the other opening statements will be included in the record and I'm going to talk about the smart people that we have have here to testify. Mr. Steuart Witson. Mr. Witson is the senior director of the federal affairs at the Foundation for Government Accountability. Prior to joining the FGAA, he served with the FBI, including as supervisory special agent in the Directorate of Intelligence. Mr. Richard Stout. Mr.
▶ 0:55:08Stout is the director of reform the bureau, an organization comprised of former FBI special agents to advocate for returning the bureau to its core mission. He served with the FBI for more than two decades, working on cases involving drug trafficking, terrorism, financial crimes, and other matters. Miss Nicole Parker. Miss Parker is a former FBI special agent, having spent more than 10 years with the bureau.
▶ 0:55:34She specialized in cases involving securities fraud before being transferred to a team focused on violent crime where she focused on cases involving murder for hire, murder in general, sexual assault, and human trafficking. Dr. Luke Hunt. Dr. Dr. Hunt is an associate professor of the University of Alabama where he is a member of the philosophy faculty. He previously served as an FBI agent for six years.
▶ 0:56:04We will begin by swearing you all in. Would you please rise and raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief? So help you God. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Please be seated. Please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety.
▶ 0:56:34Accordingly, we ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. Mr. Woodson, you may begin. Chairman Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett, Chairman Jordan, Ranking Member Rascin, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Elections have consequences. And in just four years, the Biden administration managed to politicize and weaponize the FBI in ways never seen.
▶ 0:57:01Whether targeting then candidate Trump, parents at schoolboard meetings, or Catholics doing nothing more than practicing their faith, the Biden administration hijacked the FBI to promote the left's political objectives. But it gets worse.
▶ 0:57:16While the full investigative resources of the FBI focused on the January 6th protesters and other perceived political enemies, the Biden administration manufactured the worst border crisis in our nation's history, allowing criminals, terrorists, and drugs to flood into our country at unimaginable levels. The result was predictable. An explosion of human trafficking, violent crime, and drugrelated deaths.
▶ 0:57:42And with more than 2 million known God gotaways on Biden's watch, the threat of a terrorist attack on the homeland is greater than it's ever been. But there's another big problem. Not only did the Biden administration's actions undermine public safety, but they also caused a majority of Americans to lose trust in the FBI. And this loss of trust is a crisis, not only for the FBI, but for the country. But there's good news. Again, elections have consequences.
▶ 0:58:11And with President Trump back in office, the FBI now has a new director working aggressively to write the ship. But it's not going to happen overnight. And regaining the trust of Americans is going to require significant and sweeping changes. And here's seven such changes. First, clean house. With new leadership poised to get the FBI back on track, one big hurdle stands in the way. Entrenched bureaucrats.
▶ 0:58:35We've already seen this play out in dramatic fashion with the now former FBI leader in New York who tried to coers his subordinates to quote dig in against the administration. This was a clear act of insubordination that deeply embarrassed the FBI and only further undermine public trust. And there are surely other FBI employees still entrenched in the bureau that will resist meaningful change in less obvious but equally harmful ways. Look, it's simple.
▶ 0:59:02While the vast majority of FBI employees are incredible, hard-working people who will faithfully execute their duties, the few who undermine the new leadership cannot be allowed to do so. And those who have engaged in past behavior warranting dismissal or who refuse to come to work when ordered to do so must be fired. Period. Number two, drain the swamp.
▶ 0:59:24Director Patel should drastically reduce the size of the FBI headquarters, keeping a small footprint in DC to promote accountability while shifting more staff and resources to the field offices and other locations outside the beltway. Relocating the FBI outside of DC would save money and reduce political influence by allowing the FBI to hire professional staff from outside the DC bubble.
▶ 0:59:46Number three, moving the bulk of FBI headquarters out of DC will present a natural opportunity to consolidate and reorganize existing units that perform duplicative or outdated missions. Director Patel should seize this opportunity to promote per to promote efficiency and save taxpayer dollars. Number four, get DEI out of the FBI. Under former Director Comey, the FBI moved away from meritbased hiring and instead toward racebased hiring.
▶ 1:00:14Moving forward, Director Patel should ensure that all hiring decisions are based purely on merit and talent. Number five, the FBI should be refocused back to a law enforcement agency that uses intelligence to advance its law enforcement mission rather than an intelligence agency that also engages in law enforcement. Patel could start by eliminating the intelligence branch and merging its personnel and mission into the FBI's other operational units.
▶ 1:00:41Intelligence in the FBI should be a tool to advance investigations, not its own standalone department. Number six, we need more oversight and accountab account accountability within the FBI. But to earn back the trust of the American people, Congress must get involved. Besides conducting your own oversight, Congress should also consider creating new criminal penalties for FBI employees who knowingly abuse the FBI's investigative powers.
▶ 1:01:06And finally, to get the FBI back on track, Director Patel should execute his own Doge effort to identify waste, fraud, and abuse within the FBI. At the end of the day, America deserves and needs a worldclass law enforcement agency it can trust. With the current leadership in place, the FBI is well on its way to becoming that agency once again. Because, after all, elections have consequences. With that, I thank you for the opportunity to testify in today's hearing, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:01:39Thank you, Mr. Witson, Mr. Stout, you may begin. Good morning, Chairman Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. It is an honor to share my perspective drawn from nearly four decades of public service in law enforcement, national security, and counter intelligence. My name is Richard Stout.
▶ 1:02:01I'm a 35-y year veteran of law enforcement and currently serve as director of Reform the Bureau, a nationwide group of former and retired FBI special agents committed to restoring the FBI to its core mission, protecting the public, fighting crime, and upholding the rule of law. I took on this position with Reform the Bureau as a private citizen because I was frustrated and disheartened to see the FBI, the world's most renowned and iconic law enforcement agency, fall into such disarray over the past few years.
▶ 1:02:30When I was 19 years old, I became a deputy sheriff while attending college in Southwest Virginia. Driven by a strong sense of duty and commitment to community safety, I went on to become a Virginia state trooper and later state police special agent. These are early roles grounded me in the foundational principles of public trust, discipline, and ethical responsibility. In 1997, I joined the FBI as a special agent and was assigned to the Miami field office.
▶ 1:02:56There I was assigned to a Colombian drug trafficking squad where I initiated multi-jurisdictional complex investigations and was responsible for overseeing federal wiretap operations known as title 3es targeting signific DTO. Following 911, I became part of a specialized team tasked with tracking the hijackers of movements before their attack.
▶ 1:03:18Our work proved critical in tracing connections and providing timely intelligence to our federal and military partners, supporting the broader counterterrorism effort in the aftermath of the attacks. Throughout my tenure with the FBI, I served as a case agent in several high impact criminal investigations. Notably, I led the public corruption investigation into the Scott Roststein Ponzi scheme, then the third largest of its kind in US history.
▶ 1:03:43In 2005, I was deployed to Haiti as part of a team of FBI SWAT and hostage negotiators to assist in the rescue of a kidnapped nine-year-old American girl. She had been abducted from her home and was found in a remote mountainside shack being held for ransom. This operation demonstrated the bureau's global reach and our unwavering commitment to safeguarding American lives abroad. Between 2017 and 2018, I responded to two active shooter events.
▶ 1:04:11The first was the attack at Fort Lauderdale International Airport where I assisted Special Agent Nicole Parker in gathering evidence. The second was far more personal. My daughter was a student at Marjgery Stoman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, and was inside one of the classrooms hardest hit during the shooting.
▶ 1:04:28The memory of that tragedy has deeply influenced my perspective on public safety, the importance of preparedness, and the deep concern I carry over the FBI's failure to act on two prior reports regarding the shooters In 2018, I was part of a small team that apprehended Cesar Seyok, who targeted high-profile Democrats and media figures with mailbombs. Internationally, I represented the FBI in coordinating with foreign partners on reintegrating deportiz formerly radicalized by extremist groups.
▶ 1:04:57I've lectured at the International Law Enforcement of Hungary and Botswana and proudly graduated from the FBI National Academy session 272. Since retiring, I've continued to serve the public through Reform the Bureau. We at Reform the Bureau support Director Patel, Ag Bondi, President Trump, and their reform-minded approach to the FBI. Our intent is to not harm the bureau, but to restore it. The stories and data we've brought forward represent deeply ingrained issues repeatedly experienced by dedicated professionals.
▶ 1:05:26Our goal is not retribution, but responsibility. We must rebuild the bureau's integrity and reorient to serve the American people, not internal politics. One of the areas we have been most focused on is bureau decentralization. Getting more resources and agents out of Washington and back into the field. The director has been vocal in his support for this approach. We applaud his efforts. Another area is proper resource allocation.
▶ 1:05:50We at Reform the Bureau believe the criminal investigations have been deprioritized over the past few years in favor of those more political in nature. That must end. and we trust the director will properly allocate the resources needed to pursue, capture, and deter criminals who wish us harm. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, our nation is at a crossroads in how we approach law enforcement, national security, and the trust placed in our federal institutions. I look forward to contributing to this important discussion and happy to answer your questions. Thank you.
▶ 1:06:21Thank you, Mr. Stout. Miss Parker, you may begin. Chairman Vanrew, Ranking Member Crockett, and members of the subcommittee, I would like to thank you for inviting me to come and respectfully speak with you today. It was my privilege and honor to serve America as an FBI special agent for over a dozen years under three administrations.
▶ 1:06:40While extremely demanding, my pursuit of justice for all never once gave me reason for pause until I witnessed social, cultural, and political agendas enter the FBI mission to the point it impacted our ability to effectively do the job the public and our responsibilities demand. During my career, I observed an organizational change that I labeled the emergence of two FBIs. FBI 1 understands the Constitution and under and honors its oath to uphold and defend it. It is indifferent to partisanship, places the public's interests first, and aggressively seeks out the truth.
▶ 1:07:10FBI 1 keeps its head down, stays under the radar, works tirelessly, and produces outcomes all Americans can be proud of. On the other hand, FBI 2 is the antithesis of FBI 1 and serves the conveni at the convenience of itself and is willing to use their law enforcement power to push their own personal, political, and social agendas without consideration to its oath of office. Under the Biden administration's Justice Department, it became increasingly difficult for special agents to do their jobs as Americans lost trust and confidence in the FBI.
▶ 1:07:38In a June 2023 NBC News poll, only 37% of registered voters surveyed said they had a positive view of the FBI. The Lady Justice was no longer blind. It seemed that equal protection and justice under the law might not mean the equal application of law. DOJ and FBI 2 targeted President Trump's 2024 campaign and the January 6 subjects in a way that I had never witnessed before. And I say that as someone who investigated the most violent and dangerous offenders in South Florida.
▶ 1:08:06They treated Trump in particular as if he was at as as if he were at the top of the FBI's most wanted list. Love him or hate him, it is entirely irrelevant. FBI 2 abused his discretion and authority in both cases, while other judicial remedies remained reasonably available and dismissed legitimate concerns raised by FBI 1. Yet, the FBI seemed to turn a blind eye to crimes committed by those on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
▶ 1:08:28On February 2nd of 2021, FBI Miami special agent Laura Schwarzenberger and Alen were shot and killed in the line of duty while executing a search warrant on a child predator. It is disturbing to me that during the same time frame we regularly heard of FBI SWAT resources liberally being dispatched for the arrest of firsttime non-violent January 6th offenders, the widespread use of SWAT appeared to be for political intimidation.
▶ 1:08:57Yet, in contrast, there was no SWAT presence when FBI agents Schwarzenberger and Alfen were murdered. Child predators are known to be the most dangerous and violent offenders. If SWAT had been there that morning, they would still be alive. And to add to the pain of their deaths, the FBI did not even pick up the tab for their memorial services. A private donor was asked by the FBI if they'd be willing to pay for them since the FBI did not have the funds to do so.
▶ 1:09:22Yet, the FBI was spending exorbitant amounts of money on non-m missionbased projects such as moving to electrical vehicles, January 6 investigations and diversity initiatives. The FBI became laser focused on its Office of Diversity and Inclusion Programs. There were 19 different diversity committees, clubs, and groups. Focusing on anything other than the FBI's mission is a dangerous distraction. I've never once consult a grieving family that requested I ensure the most diverse agent brings justice to their loved one.
▶ 1:09:48The bureau must hire and promote solely based on meritocracy and the FBI should focus on what unites us, not what divides us. It is one mission to protect all Americans and uphold the Constitution. When my colleagues were murdered in the line of duty, it was highly troubling to me that there was never an an FBI wide afteraction review by Director Ray, not even an email outlining what transpired and lessons learned to mitigate risk going forward.
▶ 1:10:11Yet during the same same time frame, FBI 2 flooded my email inbox with diversity promotions, celebrations, cultural committee activities, climate change messaging, and several requests to go to Washington DC for temporary duty assignments for January 6th Uncionable. I left the FBI close to two years after their deaths and still radio silence from leadership regarding what transpired that horrific morning.
▶ 1:10:35Further, the DOJ changed its steadily forced policy in July of 2022 for the first time in 18 years on the heels of the two FBI agents being murdered in the line of duty, tone death. When agents should have been given more support and protection by the policy, many interpreted it that we were given less protection and more legal scrutiny with an additional deescalation section. This can be fatal when decision-making is measured in fractions of a second, action versus reaction, and many believe the changes are a result of social justice pandering.
▶ 1:11:03The list of issues and concerns myself and others had with the FBI was growing long, no one felt that their voices mattered or that any changes were possible. As Director Ray and AG Garland believed that all was well, while many at the FBI were deeply troubled by what was transpiring. After much prayer and reflection, it was time for me to walk away. It is remarkable that several fugitives from the FBI's most wanted list have already been taken into custody since President Trump took office January of 2020 or excuse me, January 20th.
▶ 1:11:28I am hopeful and confident that under this new administration with AG Pam Bondi and FBI Director Cash Patel at the helm that with time, effort, and serious reform, the FBI will regain Americans and FBI's employees trust again, dismantling the political and social weaponization and return to its greatness. That is what our current retired and fallen FBI heroes legacies deserve. And most of all, it is what Americans deserve. Thank you, Miss Parker. Dr. Hunt, you may begin.
▶ 1:12:00My goal is to briefly share my understanding of the FBI's important mission in a way that I hope is free from partisanship. I had the good fortune of serving my country as an FBI agent in a variety of settings. In a small office where I worked whatever criminal case that walked through the door, from bank robberies to crimes against children, at Washington field office on violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and finally at FBI headquarters where I focused on national security policy.
▶ 1:12:25Now, as a professor, I draw on these experiences in teaching and research related to legal and philosophical issues in policing. But I'm not interested in the ivory tower today. One of the academic questions in my work is directly related to this committee's work. Is the FBI a liberal or illiberal institution? By liberal, I'm not referring to politics or whether you're a liberal or conservative member of Congress. I instead mean the philosophical tradition with which I assume everyone in this room agrees.
▶ 1:12:53The philosophical tradition going back to John Lockach on which this country was founded. At its core, the political morality of liberalism tells us that all persons are free and equal and should be governed by the state in accordance with the rule of law. What is the alternative? Illiberal regimes govern not by the rule of law, but by arbitrary power and the official whim of state agents who are above the law. The FBI can and should be an agency that promotes the rule of law.
▶ 1:13:22However, I want to raise three concerns about the current state of affairs that could lead to the erosion of the rule of law. First, lack of predication. Predication is the basis of an investigation, the information or allegation that justifies a case. While most FBI investigations require predication, so-called assessments do not. In other words, the FBI has the discretion to investigate almost anything without any factual basis to do so.
▶ 1:13:49Investigation without predication is contrary to the rule of law because it may be based not on fact but whim or arbitrary discretion. It is thus crucial for bureau leadership to avoid any appearance of impropriety and partisanship in both actions and rhetoric. The second worry I raise is the selective enforcement of corruption. Corruption includes the use of entrusted authority for unethical benefits.
▶ 1:14:15This is of course an issue in politics, but corruption also arises in social and economic domains such as business. It should go without saying that corruption is contrary to the rule of law. It undermines institutional reputation, circumvents fair processes of economic development, and denigrates democracy justice. Recent developments suggest that the decision to investigate corruption may be based in part on political and business expedience.
▶ 1:14:43Prominent cases of political corruption have been dropped suddenly for reasons unrelated to the legal merits of the case. Investigation of corruption under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act has been paused. The FBI's Foreign Influence Task Force, DOJ's Kleptocracy team have been disbanded. A lack of transparency into this sort of selective enforcement of corruption could politicize the FBI, undermining the rule of law.
▶ 1:15:10Predication suggests a righteous investigation regardless of whether the target is a regular citizen or a powerful politician or corporation. If we don't want to slide towards illiberalism, then no one should be above the law. Finally, I raise a concern about the selective enforcement of national security threats. We are all familiar with the horrific horrific pattern of political and ideological mass killings in recent years.
▶ 1:15:35The 2015 killing of nine black people in a Charleston church by a white supremacist hoping to spark a race war. The 2018 killing of 11 in the Pittsburgh Jewish community. The 2019 killing of 23 people in El Paso motivated by claims of a Hispanic invasion. The 2022 killing of 10 black people in Buffalo based on a manifesto on racial purity. We should add the assassination of attempt of President Trump, a very heinous act that occurred in 2024.
▶ 1:16:02Now listen, I have no personal information about the FBI's plan to stop politically motivated violence. On one hand, I've read reports that the disgusting vandalism and arson directed at Tesla will be prioritized as domestic terrorism. On the other hand, I've read reports that the FBI's new reorganization will move resources away from the investigation and analysis of other domestic terrorism threats.
▶ 1:16:28My only point is that we should not prioritize domestic terrorism investigation based on whether they're motivated by the left or the right. Investigation should be based on predication and follow the evidence wherever it leads. That is the rule of law. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dr. Hunt. Thank you all for being here. We appreciate your time, which is a precious resource in itself. I'm now going to recognize a gentleman from Alabama for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:16:57I I certainly appreciate all the witnesses being here today. First, let's let's make it clear. We're not here to harm the FBI in any kind of way, but I think restoring credibility in the justice system within America is very, very important. One of the top issues when I was touring the district in 21 was, and that was shortly after the Biden administration was the weaponization of government agencies against certain political opponents, certainly President Trump, certainly some of the January 6 defendants.
▶ 1:17:21And we've heard from Miss Parker that there there was a mobilization to go and locate those people and arrest them when that those resources could have been used elsewhere. So I guess we want to get to to the general point of this hearing is how do we restore credibility in these agencies?
▶ 1:17:35I mean, we saw the Durham report where in fact Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Loretta Lynch, the attorney general at the time, and James Comey were sitting in the Oval Office when Clapper, the CIA director, walked in and said, "Hey, by the way, this Russian collusion narrative, we know that's being driven by the DNC and Hillary Clinton." And yet within a few hours, the FBI started the FISA situation and spying on General Flynn.
▶ 1:18:02those kind of stories as a reports come out after the fact that we know now that Russian collusion was made up and the time and resources spent on the Mueller report and even the people in leadership in the Democratic party driving those narratives were very dangerous for this country and so as the American people look back and go wow this this system does seem to be weaponized against political opponents and that's certainly a concern. So Mr. Winston, I'll start with you. What steps do you think the FBI should take today to reform the agency and regain trust of the American people?
▶ 1:18:30what would be one of the couple of steps you think we need to look into? Thank you for that question. I think first and foremost, the most important thing to understand is that Director Patel has two missions here. One, he has to fix the FBI. And the other, as you're alluding to, is he has to restore trust. And so to fix the FBI, you have to do a bunch of things, make sweeping changes, but to restore trust, you have to do even more.
▶ 1:18:54you have to go beyond actually what is necessary to fix the FBI because that's not going to be enough to get the rest of the American population back on board. And so how does he do it? It's one word, transparency. I was going to ask you where does transparency come in and how much transparency do we need at this point? We need as much as we can get. And and you heard Chairman Jordan mentioning that you're already seeing that out of director Patel. So it's very simple. Congress has an important oversight role. When Congress asks for documents that the law requires the FBI to provide to Congress, then the FBI needs to do that.
▶ 1:19:24And I think Director Patel has already shown that he gets that and that he's delivering. Are there any other mistakes that you think Director Ray made as opposed that Director Patel needs to avoid? I I mean, it'd be that right there. So, so I think Director Ray had a tendency to shield information, to drag out responses. is I think towards the end of his tenure he kind of became a little smug and and kind of put out to be here to be asked questions and I think that's exit the entirely wrong approach.
▶ 1:19:51The FBI director or whoever's designated that he sends here needs to be highly responsive to you because you have a job to do and they need to pro provide you all of the information that the law requires them to provide you right away. No delay. And I think initially, Mr. Witson that that transparency may be a little painful for the FBI, but but I think in the long term that's what it's going to take to restore the credibility of that agency. Um, Mr. Stout, what do you believe the role of the FBI is? Very simply, I think we need to eliminate the bloat.
▶ 1:20:18There's there's too many senior executive service members in roles with limited utility. Um, they need to eliminate or demote non-essential roles and align headquarters uh with more fuel-based leadership models. So the more emphasis we put in the field will be the greater our will have a greater output greater greater response to to crime and anything that involves the American citizens. Do you believe it's possible for the FBI to return to those roots? Yes, sir. Absolutely.
▶ 1:20:47Men and women of the FBI are are some of the best people that I've ever worked with. They're honest people. They have families. Uh they can transition. They can transition well and with enthusiasm. Gotcha. Uh, Miss Parker, um, you said in your previous testimony over a course of the 12 plus years of service, the FBI's trajectory kind of transformed. What do you mean by that? Um, I joined the FBI.
▶ 1:21:11I was a witness to the 911 terrorist attacks in New York City, um, when that occurred and I went on to join the FBI because I wanted to give back to our country. I wanted to serve America. And when I joined the FBI, that's really what we were doing. There was very little talk about politics. Um, you just went in, you did your job. I was originally focusing on white collar crime. I then transferred over to violent crime.
▶ 1:21:30But as I mentioned, there really did become two FBIs and the weaponization and the politicization started seeping into the agency and it was a common um topic of discussion and you were bombarded with requests to work certain investigations and it just became overwhelming. It was only one side of the political spectrum that was ever being held accountable. And so FBI agents were thinking, why are we doing this? We're supposed to be Lady Justice is supposed to be blind. Lady Justice is no longer blind.
▶ 1:21:59And for me, I just started seeing over and over examples of politicization. And it just that's not what I signed up for. You know, when I witnessed the 911 terrorist attacks and I wanted to serve, that's not what I signed up for. I wanted to stop violent criminals and terrorists. Thank you. With that, Mr. Chairman, I'm out of time. I yield back. Thank the gentleman. And now I'm going to recognize the gentleman from Georgia. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:22:25uh chairman and thank you ranking member uh Mr. Parker um after or excuse me Miss Parker after serving your country as a uh special agent for the FBI you landed in a uh soft cushy position as a paid contributor at none other than Fox News. Isn't that correct?
▶ 1:22:55Actually, that was not correct. When I initially left the FBI, you're not a contributor. I am at this point, but when I left the FBI, I was not initially a paid contributor for Fox. But you you are a paid contributor now. Today, I am, but when I left the FBI, I was not. And you get paid to create content at Fox News. Isn't that correct? I get paid to speak the truth. So, you create content at Fox News, don't you? giving your view on things.
▶ 1:23:24That's content creation, isn't it? What I do is I speak the facts and I speak the truth based experience at the FBI. And you get paid to do that. I get paid to speak facts and I get Are you on the clock? Are you on the clock right now? Am I on the clock right now? Yeah. No, you're not getting paid right now for being a Um, no, sir. I'm not getting for any other purpose. Excuse me. You're not getting paid as you sit here right now to be here?
▶ 1:23:53I am not getting paid to be here. No, I am not. All right. Fair enough. Mr. Witson, uh you also served as an FBI agent before falling into a very lucrative position as the legal director at the Foundation for Accountability. Correct. Uh that was my former position at Yes. And well, what is your current position now? So, I currently serve as the senior director of federal affairs. And it's a pretty lucrative uh upgrade from where you first started.
▶ 1:24:25The position I'm in now. Yeah. Yeah. You're making more money now than you were when you first started, right? Yes. And um would it surprise you to know that um your funding uh between 2013 and uh six conservative foundations tied to billionaire donors sunk $44 million into your organization. Correct.
▶ 1:24:55I don't know the precise numbers. I know that. It wouldn't surprise you though. But that wouldn't surprise me at all. And your largest known source of funding between 2013 and 2022 was a foundation controlled by ill Illinois billionaire Dick Uline who invested over $18 million into your operation.
▶ 1:25:18And another source of uh your funding was the 85 fund which gave you $2 million between 2013 and 2022. It is among the network that is controlled by Leonard Leo who received uh over a billion dollars in contributions from a uh from a a single billionaire to fund his uh continued takeover of
▶ 1:25:49our court system. And so you get paid to promote an agenda which includes rolling back child labor laws and stripping child workplace protections. Isn't that correct? No, that's not correct. And your organization has also worked to stop Medicaid expansion and to slash food stamps. Correct. What do you mean by slash food stamps? Well, it means cut food stamps. Cut the money.
▶ 1:26:18And y'all have been advocating for that. And you also uh were among the organizations that wrote the uh notorious project 2025, which is the radical right-wing agenda, the blueprint that uh President Trump is implementing along with co-president uh Musk. Correct. I'm not aware of us writing anything in Project 2025. Now, uh Mr. Stout.
▶ 1:26:46Your organization must be brand new because I haven't been able to uh come up with anything on reform the bureau which is the name of your outfit. Correct. Yes, sir. That's correct. It's just started. You just started it. I started in December. And uh have you been successful at recruiting uh any billionaire donors for your efforts? No, sir. I have. And it's a grassroots level. If I had more time, I would uh ask Dr.
▶ 1:27:14hunt a question because he's the only uh non-paid individual uh up here not promoting a a right-wing agenda but I've run out of time so gosh I yield I thank the gentlemen and I will now recognize and you know just a word before that probably most of the people who appear before us have to make a living somehow that's okay we all get paid salaries or whatever not
▶ 1:27:45unusual not scary um with that being said I will recognize the gentleman from Missouri for five minutes uh thank you Mr. chairman, and thank you for the witnesses for coming here to testify today. Um, Miss Parker, thank you for your testimony. Um, in your testimony, you relate the misuse by the FBI of SWAT resources and you give the example of a firsttime January 6th offenders.
▶ 1:28:15Uh, one SWAT team spending overnight in a hotel four and a half hours away to arrest grandparents in their late 70s. sound like some dangerous ombbrres to me. Um, on September 23rd, 2022, we're all familiar with the case of of the case of a pro-life activist and homeschool father of seven, Mark Hs. No criminal record. He was arrested in a SWAT raid, guns drawn in front of his family.
▶ 1:28:44Uh, then there's 73-year-old pro-life activist Chester Gallagher, who was arrested for nonviolent violation of the Face Act. And then there was pro-life activist uh Paul Vaughn arrested in an early morning raid by the FBI, guns drawn in front of his seven children. Sound like some really dangerous offenders to me. Um but prolifers aren't the only ones who have been targeted by the Biden FBI.
▶ 1:29:10Vanessa Civage, a nurse at Texas Children's Hospital, read the story of whis whistleblower Etonheim, who we're familiar with, who exposed gender transition uh procedures being done at Texas Children's Hospital, despite the hospital having proclaimed that they were no longer doing those procedures because the attorney general of Texas was investigating that clinic for child abuse.
▶ 1:29:37Um, Vanessa stu stepped forward and uh, ex and basically confirmed Dr. Heim's story. She was then visited two months later by the FBI. And then, of course, the anti-atholic memor memorandum that we're familiar with. I have that here in my hand right now. Um, just just some simple questions. First of all, this is labeled as a um as a domain perspective.
▶ 1:30:05Miss Parker, what what is a domain perspective? That's a document that from my understanding was distributed within the FBI as intelligence. Um, someone formulated that document and it was published um internally and um it had a stamp of intelligence on it that was signed off by multiple individuals within the Richmond field office.
▶ 1:30:25and and and part of part of that memorandum first page um says quote FBI Richmond makes this assessment with high confidence based on FBI investigations, local law enforcement agency reporting and liaison reporting with various degrees of corroboration and access. I mean the term I mean what does the term you know high confidence mean to you Miss Barker?
▶ 1:30:55When I hear high confidence I want to believe that it's trustworthy that I can count on that that that is factual that is truth. Um and my understanding of that memorandum is that they use sources that would not typically be used to gather intelligence. And what was happening at the FBI quite frequently and was disturbing to many is that there were individuals taking their personal views, packaging it up and creating a document and then stamping intelligence on it and distributing as if it was truth, as if it was almost the Bible.
▶ 1:31:23And that is um an example of, you know, abuse of your law enforcement power. um you're allowed to have your own personal and political opinions, but when you go to work, you've got to leave those at the front door. And you have to exercise in an unbiased and fair manner and be truthful. And when you're getting an intelligence document, you want to hope that it is factually correct and it is true.
▶ 1:31:44And um unfortunately, that was a document that Christopher Ray had to have rescended because it was it was not accurate and he found it mind-boggling and disgusting that it had ever been published. Well, one thing I find mind-boggling, first of all, I am Catholic myself. I'm not a traditional Latin mass Catholic. Often such people who prefer to go to the Latin mass are referred to as traditionalist Catholics.
▶ 1:32:07And then so-called rad or radical traditionalist Catholics are those who only go to Catholic mass, who some of them believe that the the regular English mass is invalid or reject Vatican 2 or what have you. But not a single one of them I know even even own guns, much less are they radicals or whatever.
▶ 1:32:26And then when I look at this um at this memorandum, I see they're quoting the Southern Poverty Law Center, a just a viciously political defamatory group. I've worked a lot on immigration issues. I think Southern Poverty Law Center has declared every immigration reform group to be a racist or white supremacist group. They're just just a walking defamation factory.
▶ 1:32:52Have you seen as the Southern Poverty Law Center quoted in other FBI memos over the years? I have not. Okay. I have not. But again, that was entirely inappropriate. It never should have happened. And um the FBI had to walk that back. But again, that is an example of weaponization. That is so social weaponization at the FBI. It's entirely inappropriate. And um it never should have happened. the FBI not going after bad guys, but going after enemies of the political regime, third world stuff.
▶ 1:33:21Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your testimony. Thank you. I thank the gentleman. And by the way, the director of the FBI had to apologize for that. It was not it's not a debunked theory. With that being said, I will recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Rascin. Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman. One of our colleagues referred to the weaponization of the DOJ and specifically focused on the January 6th defendants.
▶ 1:33:48Uh that startled me because 140 American police officers were violently assaulted on that day, wounded, hospitalized, some of them disfigured, disabled, forced to leave police work. Um but he said that there would have been a better use of FBI and prosecutorial and investigative resources. and I wonder what he was referring to. In any event, Dr. Hunt, do you agree with that assessment? Thank you for that question.
▶ 1:34:16Um, January 6 shocked and horrified me. That was a shameful day, not least because of the many attacks on our law enforcement officers. So, any suggestion that that is a low priority and should not be investigated is shocking to me. I can't imagine a more important devotion of resources by the FBI to anyone who would attack our nation's capital.
▶ 1:34:42Um, some of our colleagues um have again been going back to the idea that the Biden FBI was converted into some kind of political instrument. Um, when I look at the prosecutions that come out of it, I'm thinking about the one of Senator Bob Mendez from New Jersey, who's a Democrat, of Henry Quayar, who's a Democrat, lots of other Democrats. Other than Donald Trump, I really can't think of any others on the Republican side.
▶ 1:35:10And I'm just getting the feeling that they think Donald Trump really should be above and beyond the law. And that's what this whole weaponization thing is about. Other than setting the conditions to turn it into an instrument of revenge and retribution as Donald Trump uh has promised, do you think the FBI was acting as an instrument of partisanship uh in the last administration?
▶ 1:35:39I can only speak from my personal experience and I can say this. When I was an FBI agent, my fellow the men and women that I worked with, they based their investigations on facts and law. They based their investigations on predication. The worry I have is with respect to corruption today. When there's selective enforcement and just as a regular American citizen, I'm not an insider now.
▶ 1:36:02When I see a highle politician and charges are dropped and there's no reason, I as an American citizen don't understand why that's the case. You're referring to Mayor Adams. That's correct. But but there was a reason which was he agreed to play on Donald Trump's political team. And the very Republican conservative US attorney for the Southern District said nothing had changed in terms of the facts of the case. Nothing had changed in terms of the law. Nothing changed in terms of the evidence. All that had changed was that he'd made this political alignment with Donald Trump.
▶ 1:36:31She resigned rather than participate in that corrupt bargain as did her deputy who said it would take a fool or a coward to accept that deal. He also clerked for a conservative Supreme Court justice and was active in the Federalist Society and five other lawyers dropped out rather than do it until finally they had to uh force somebody to do it from DC who said he'd be willing to do it because he was about to leave his job.
▶ 1:36:54You say, "Let's base it on the facts." And I I'm really curious about the signal group chat thing because the country is in an uproar about the fact that uh the most precious uh national security information was shared on a signal group chat where a journalist was actually invited in academically by somebody to participate. And some of my colleagues seem to say, "Well, it was a oneshot deal. Let's just let it go." And it's no big deal.
▶ 1:37:19The FBI directors already said, "No, no, nothing to see there." If this were a standard practice, just a yes or no. Do you think it would be a problem? That would be a problem. Yes. Miss Parker, do you agree it would be a problem if it were a standard practice? Um, my understanding I was not on the signal chat. I just know what Just yes or no. I've got little time. Um, if you a mistake was made and Okay, Mr. Stout, can you say would it be a problem for it to be standard practice to conduct sensitive foreign policy on a signal chat group?
▶ 1:37:49Yes, I would. Okay. And Mr. Witson, do you agree? Yes. Okay. Well, it just came out like 10 minutes ago. Waltz's team set up at least 20 signal group chats for crises across the world. So, it was, as one might expect, a very standard practice with Mr. Waltz, and I'm sure this will raise the question of whether or not he really should continue that position.
▶ 1:38:12But do you think that the FBI should investigate what the national security implications and what the public safety implications are of his having done that? Dr. Hunt. So this comes back to the rule of law. As an FBI agent, there were strict rules about sensitive material. We had to be in a skiff. We had to take the utmost caution. So to treat other people that are more powerful differently definitely suggest to me a deviation from rule the rule of law. All right. Thank you. And I yield back to you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:38:42Thank the gentleman. You know, there's a difference between a mistake and purposeful perpetrated policies are wrong. Just point out Okay, I beat you to it. I recognize the chairman of the whole committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Witson, before you got uh what Mr. Johnson described as highpaying job as senior senior director of Federal Affairs Foundation for Government Accountability, um you worked in the FBI. Is that right? Yes sir. 10 years in the FBI?
▶ 1:39:12Yes. And prior to that, you were in the United States Army. Yes, sir. 300 combat missions in Iraq. Is is that right? Yes, sir. And your time at the FBI, you were special agent in the director uh supervisory special agent in the director of intelligence. Is that accurate? Yes, sir. In uh in your testimony, and I just want to get your familiar with this this subject matter. In your testimony, you said, "One of the ways we can eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse is including the overspending on confidential human sources." You said that in your testimony, right? Yes, Chairman.
▶ 1:39:42Are you familiar with the Inspector General's report about the confidential human sources who were there on January 6, 2021 here at the capital? Have you read the report? I haven't read that close. Can I Well, let me let me tell you a few things that they say in there, and I want to ask you a few questions. He said there were 26 confidential human sources there at the capital that day. Does that surprise you? Uh, no. Doesn't surprise you. Okay. He said 17 of those 26 confidential human sources entered restricted space they weren't allowed to go into. Does that surprise you? No. Doesn't surprise you.
▶ 1:40:11They did things they weren't allowed to do. Well, I need more more details about So, were they doing it on their own? Were they told to do it? Were they you know that that kind of thing? We want to know the answer to those questions, too. Yes, sir. Uh four of them went inside the capital and two of the four who went inside the capital were specifically tasked specifically asked by the FBI to be there that day for this. Does that surprise you? Not necessarily, but I need to know more facts. Does it surprise you that any of them none of these individuals to our knowledge were charged with anything?
▶ 1:40:42No. I mean, if they were tasked to be there. Okay. I But I I don't I would need more information. In your test, you talked about overspending on confidential human sources. Do you believe is it likely these 26 were being paid by the FBI at the time they were doing this? I I think that's like if they're an a confidential human source that's actually on the books, then it's highly likely that they were highly paid if they were tasked to do that. Even if they weren't specifically asked to be there that day, you think there's likely they were paid.
▶ 1:41:08So, if they weren't asked to be there, I think usually it's they're given us like a lump payment periodically. So, it wouldn't be for a specific testing necessarily. It'd be hard to answer that. Are you familiar with what was released here earlier this week? uh the text communications between FBI agents regarding October 14th, 2020 New York Post story on the Hunter Biden laptop. Have you had a chance to review those? I I haven't seen those text messages. Let me just read a couple to you here. It says, "Nobody on the call is authorized to comment on the New York Post story.
▶ 1:41:36Twitter is treating this as disinformation." I just want to read something that took place earlier that day. The way this day worked is the story came out that day. Elvis Chan, a guy with the FBI, is meeting with the tech company, something he did on a regular basis in the run-up to the 2020 presidential election. At that meeting, someone asked, "Hey, there's this New York Post story. Is the laptop real?" And we know this took place because we deposed uh Mr. Brady Olsson, and he gave us this information.
▶ 1:42:02And he said, "When that question was asked, the response was yes, the laptop is real." Then we get these text messages, which we didn't have before. We just got them this week. these text messages which relate what happens after that. So the FBI has confirmed to Twitter at a fit of meeting on October 14th that the laptop is real and then we have this this these text messages back and forth where they says no one is authorized to comment further.
▶ 1:42:26Twitter is treating this as You find that troubling that the FBI knew something was real, confirmed it at a meeting, then changed their story and went to no comment, no further comment, and allowed the tech companies to run with the idea that this story was disinformation. Yeah, I do think that's problematic. And I do think the relationships that are they tried to build with members of the FBI, with these other organizations were problematic. Yeah.
▶ 1:42:52And the the ranking member said, "Oh, the the Republicans want to say the FBI was political." And what really wasn't the case. If this is not political, I do not know what is because this became this was the whole basis for the the 51 former intel officials doing their letter. And the FBI knew. Now we have written evidence they knew coupled with the deposition we took before where they admitted this. And then later in the day when they're meeting with other tech companies, they go with no comment.
▶ 1:43:19And they even admit here Twitter is running with the disinformation story even before the 51 intel officials come out with their letter which is baloney. They're running with that and the FBI was part of fostering and promoting that story. It's unacceptable. Totally unacceptable. And it shows how one bad apple and there were probably others but you can see how much of a problem that is. And that one bad apple behaves that way the entire bureau's reputation is impacted. Trust is lost across the country. And so that's why it's so important to find folks like that.
▶ 1:43:49Going back to the entrenched bureaucrats, you have to find them and remove them because that's all it takes is one. I think that was I think that was point one in your testimony, which is exactly what Miss Miss Bondi and Mr. Patel are doing is getting rid of those individuals who foster this kind of political environment where you're going after political foes where you're telling things, saying things, allowing things to be believed that aren't accurate when you knew the truth all along. That's right. I yield back. Thank the chairman, the gentle.
▶ 1:44:15I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, Jasmine Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. And uh I first just want to begin with a news alert. Uh guess what? Joe Biden is not the president anymore. Um so maybe we can move on. Maybe we can move into the present because it seems like we are living in the past. And listen, these are not the good old days, you know, like you used to sit around and your grandparents would talk to you about what used to happen.
▶ 1:44:43What we need to be talking about is how we are going to legislate because I think that some of my colleagues have confused what our jobs are and I get that we're sitting in judiciary and so it may seem as if we are here to be litigators but we are here to be legislators which means that we are supposed to be writing laws not trying to have our own trials and determine um whether or not something is true or not or whatever the case is or who should be sued who shouldn't be sued.
▶ 1:45:12All I know is that uh a great American hero um a good senator out of New Jersey said something to the effect yesterday as he was shattering the uh record for holding the floor. A record that had been held by a another racist in this country. As he shattered that, he said something about the fact that this should not be about left versus right. It should be about right versus wrong.
▶ 1:45:39And I am going to tell you that I want us to focus on right versus wrong. The reason that we are struggling right now in this country as it relates to people not trusting agencies, honestly, a lot of it is because of elected leaders. Let me tell you, one of the things that the chairman and I actually agree upon, we don't agree on a lot, is that we both know that there has been a sharp incline as it relates to threats upon our lives.
▶ 1:46:10Regardless of what side of the aisle you sit on, we both know and agree that as sitting members of Congress, we both are enduring more death threats than anybody should in this country. And I believe that it is because of the divisive rhetoric and it is because of the selective enforcement of things.
▶ 1:46:31And so when we have and I'mma I'mma be clear because I I had remarks and I'm going a whole other way to have the sitting attorney general go on and I'mma call it faux news. I know some of y'all love it but it's it's fake to me. to have her go on Fox News and to then decide that she wanted to send a threat to me.
▶ 1:46:59It was wrong because here it is. She is the highest law enforcement agent in this country. And people are watching and they are consuming this information and they are believing that simply because I decided that I wanted to exercise my right to free speech, which I am not a bridge from doing that. She then wanted to then politicize something that should not be politicized. I don't like Elon Musk. I'mma say it 50,000 times. I don't like him.
▶ 1:47:29I don't like that he going out there and he firing people. I think that he's a crook because somehow the rest of us can't sit around and get whatever federal contracts we want. The rest of us can't sit around and get law enforcement and get them somehow ordained as federal law enforcement to protect him. The rest of us can't get our dealerships protected by the federal government. That is somebody that is operating above the law for whatever reason. Just because he has a lot of money, more money than everybody else.
▶ 1:47:57And yes, I am happy to see that on my birthday, which is what I said, there were peaceful protests around this world against him because he is a problem. And so, you never should have somebody that is sitting that high and is going to sit up here and threaten a sitting member of Congress when she knew good and well if she watched the entire thing that I specifically told protesters to make sure you consult with lawyers.
▶ 1:48:23Just like I've told protesters over and over and over in the history of me advising people to go out and exercise their constitutional right. The fact that there are other city members that have received letters of threat from this new DOJ tells me that they are about retribution and they are not about following the law. The reason that our party or I I won't even say our party, our country is torn apart is because we can't even agree on right versus wrong.
▶ 1:48:51This should not be left versus right. The only thing that we're asking is that we have law enforcement that will show up when there is an actual crime. If somebody calls and says, "Hey, I need you to investigate this cyber crime or I need you to investigate this child pornography or I need you to investigate this robbery." Then we want somebody to show up and we don't want them to look at us and act as if just because I'm black or because I'm woman that I am not worthy of having that case investigated because we have an administration
▶ 1:49:22that is continuously railing against diversity, equity, or inclusion. or we don't need people that show up that feel like diversity should not be valued. That is why we should have somebody that may show up and looks like me. The final thing that I'll say because you've been gracious is this. When I first became a public defender, I had no criminal defense experience.
▶ 1:49:43And I walked in and I told my boss, Charlie, I said, "Listen, you should hire me." He said, "Why?" I said, "Because I'm black." Charlie looked at me like I was crazy. And I said, "Let me tell you something. When I walk in, I'm going to walk in with a level of rapport and understanding that maybe some of my other colleagues will not. Charlie offered me my job and I worked my butt off and I worked really, really hard for all of my clients, not just those that look like me.
▶ 1:50:12And that is what it looks like to serve. Thank you. Thank the gentle lady. And I recognize the gentleman from Kansas for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Uh, I do want to give the witnesses a heads up. I do intend to ask them questions over the course of this 5 minutes. I spent a dozen years as the chief law enforcement official of my state. I've never claimed to be a cop, not a certified officer, but I had the privilege of serving as our state attorney general.
▶ 1:50:40I've had a lot of conversations with law enforcement officers uh all over the state of Kansas, local cops, elected local officers and sheriffs, uh cops that worked directly for me under our supervision, cops that worked in local agencies, and all sorts of federal law enforcement officers as well as federal prosecutors who operated in our jurisdiction.
▶ 1:51:00I will tell you in the course of those 12 years I never saw a an FBI agent perform less than honorably. Not once. And I never recall a single time in those rooms. Now, if I'd go down the street to the political party meetings, I'd hear conversations like we heard some today and we've heard a lot over the last four years. I'd hear all that all the time. If I turn on the television, I'd see it all the time. I never heard it among cops working a case.
▶ 1:51:29I heard folks who knew each other and liked each other and cooperated with each other who said, "How are we going to get that child molester off the streets? How are we going to solve this murder? How are we going to deal with that case of elder abuse? How are we going to deal with that crime that's in front of us?" That's the FBI I know and it's the law enforcement world that I know. And I would just ask, you know, Mr. Witson, you're first up here. Is that consistent or inconsistent with the law enforcement community you operated in? It's absolutely consistent.
▶ 1:51:56I'd say I had partners that I worked with for years on cases. And if you ask me what political party those people were in, I couldn't tell you. And they couldn't tell you the same for me when I was when I was in the FBI. So that is the real FBI. When you go out to the field offices and you get away from headquarters, that's the real FBI, the real work. That's that's what they're like. And Mr. Stout, you were a local uh or state officer or both before being federal. How about you? Is what I just described consistent or inconsistent with your experience? Yes, sir. It is consistent.
▶ 1:52:24And I would tack on to that something earlier that Miss Crockett said that I'm interested in about galvanizing this country. What will bring us all together? You know, something do briefly. You mentioned there's a special place in hell for pedi pedophiles and child pornographers. And we have systems in place at the FBI, but we can make those systems a little bit better, a little bit tighter. I'm prepared to talk about it later today if you wish. That sounds very good. Let me tell you a brief story and then I have some follow-on questions.
▶ 1:52:51So during the course of the time I was serving in that role, we had a terrible case. It was a racist, bigoted individual from a neighboring state who crossed the line into our state with the intent of killing a group of folks because of their faith. He went to a religious institution. He shot the place up. He killed, as I recall, three people. He was immediately apprehended. He has since died in prison. But there was at the moment that happened, there was a motivated federal and state through the local authorities response. a lot of folks on the scene, everybody trying to figure out how do we secure this thing?
▶ 1:53:22How do we fix it? And then there was a a professional discussion. Who's going to go first in the prosecution because you had a state murder and you had federal hate crimes as well as some other federal crimes perhaps? And man, the press loved it. I mean, every day there was a headline about this dispute between the district attorney and the United States attorney and the local cops and the federal cops and who's going to go first.
▶ 1:53:43And finally, it was decided the state would go first and the district attorney announced he was filing capital murder charges with a notice of intent to seek the death penalty under our state law. And in the same article where the local press reported that, they then in the next paragraph said, "And next there'll be a decision on a federal prosecution where the penalties may be stiffer." Think about that. Think about that.
▶ 1:54:12I offer the story up for this reason. I think there may be a perception outside the cops on the beat, federal and state, who do this work in our communities every single day, that what we talk about up here is reality and that somehow the federal law enforcement officers are superior to their state counterparts. I don't think that's true. I don't think it's close to true.
▶ 1:54:34And I don't think what we're hearing today and heard the last four years reflects what really happens with the vast vast majority of the federal and state cops on the beat. And I guess I would just ask this, Mr. Witson. You suggested we ought to move uh the FBI out of Washington DC and the current director has already made some moves to that effect. Talk to me in my remaining time about how you think that might affect our ability to get this narrative back on track.
▶ 1:55:03So, it's the cops on the beat keeping our communities safe that drives it instead of all this political circus in this town that drives it. Well, briefly, just right now, almost a third of all FBI employees are stationed in the DC area. The crime that's taking place across America is not all happening in the DC area. It's happening everywhere in pockets all over the country, Kansas, every every member's district. And so, moving the FBI out of DC and back into the field office is going to help that. But it's also cheaper.
▶ 1:55:33DC is an expensive area. I don't need to tell anyone that. Right. Moving the headquarters to a lowerc cost area is not only cheaper for the federal government and the American taxpayer, but it's also cheaper for the workers, for the federal employees that have to commute every day to the to the office if it's in a place that's a better quality of live living, an easier commute. That's better. And then the last reason to be real brief is the political makeup. And so my colleague at FGA, Hayden DeLo, did a paper on this to look at federal senior executive uh employees. What is the political makeup?
▶ 1:56:02And across the country, they lean heavily Democrat by 30, but in DC it goes up to 40. And so that's not to say, not trying to be not Democrat or not Republican, but we really want to put it in a place where it's more representative of the entire country and not just one side of the country. And that's why we see that when a conservative comes in, the whole weaponization rises to the issue because the headquarters is populated by people of the opposite political. The gentleman's time is expired. Okay. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:56:32I now recognize the gentleman for Texas for 5 Thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you for for having this incredibly important hearing where we can uh better understand the systematic abuses of the Biden administration for the past four years. Our colleagues on the other side want to encourage us to move on.
▶ 1:56:55Move on from a federal government that was weaponized against the American people, the American people that they are supposed to represent and protect. move on after our FBI was targeting parents who were concerned that their children were being indoctrinated into radical transgender ideologies in their public schools.
▶ 1:57:19Move on after the left weaponized the federal government to create a mass censorship industrial complex violating our First Amendment rights. were supposed to move on after they targeted Catholic Americans, traditional Americans, and labeled them extremists. We're told that there's a a problem that we can't agree on what's right and wrong. And I agree that is a huge problem.
▶ 1:57:47It's a problem that the other side of the aisle can't recognize that censorship is wrong. It's a problem that the other side of the aisle can't recognize that it's wrong for the FBI to target parents concerned about what they're learning in their schools. It's a problem that the other side of the aisle can't recognize that it's a problem whenever our federal government goes after Christian Americans.
▶ 1:58:12That's a serious problem and that's something we should be able to agree on, but unfortunately we can't. We saw unprecedented levels of weaponization under the Biden administration against the the same American people that it was supposed to be looking out for.
▶ 1:58:29Christopher Ray created an internal meimbo that slandered traditional Catholics as anti-semites and white It suggested that the FBI monitored traditional Catholics and even set the stage for FBI informants entering places worship.
▶ 1:58:51At the same time, remember this was happening while Joe Biden was of course facilitating the mass immigration of illegal immigr illegal criminals into our country. Not protect keeping us safe in that instance, that's for sure. Thankfully, and I think the American people are very thankful that we finally have a president and an head of the FBI and head of the DOJ who actually represent us and want to want to protect us.
▶ 1:59:20Um, I I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here. We really appreciate your testimony and your time here. Uh, Mr. Wit Witson, I'd like to start um with you. the the FBI utilized a a so-called hate map from the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, uh as it was going after traditional Catholics and labeling them uh domestic extremists. Do you think that that's uh an appropriate source?
▶ 1:59:51Absolutely not. Do you know some of the other groups that the SPLC labels as as hate groups or extremist groups? No, I don't off the top of my head. I I I can name a few. They also named the Alliance Defending Freedom, the Family Research Council, and Moms for Liberty as as hate groups as well. Um, do you find it concerning that they were using that that uh the SPLC is the source? Yeah, I find it deeply concerning.
▶ 2:00:18Do you think that Catholics who celebrate the traditional Latin mass are a threat to the American people? Uh, I don't because I'm one that does that on occasion. Um, can you recall before Joe Biden was in office any time whenever the FBI specifically targeted a group of Americans solely because of their religious faith? No.
▶ 2:00:43Do you think there's any evidence to suggest that that harassing Catholic Americans keeps Americans safe? Not at Got it. Do you think that uh that we've seen a move away from this sort of flagrant weaponization since President Trump has has entered office?
▶ 2:01:03And and what do you think that this committee can do to help ensure that we don't see a return um of that sort of Well, I think number one, it's accountability, right? That's not going to surprise you from the Foundation for Government Accountability. And so, it's not enough to identify a problem and then just move on. You've got to hold people accountable and it's going back to the earlier point. If you want to reearn the trust of Americans in the FBI, they have to see people held accountable.
▶ 2:01:30Um, but then at the same time, you need to refocus and look at what are the problems we have right now. And that's the wide open border. That's the violent crime. And so, you need to press the FBI to make sure they're pushing resources where they should. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank the gentleman. I'll yield five minutes to myself. I'm going to ask you all a question. Um, what would you do if you were sitting where we sit? What legislation? Uh, in other words, every administration can come and go.
▶ 2:01:59The goal here to someday be sure that at the attorney general's office, the FBI, uh, that that we do not have to worry about this anymore, the Department of Justice, is there any legislation? I'll start with Mr. Witson, but I'll go all the way down to Dr. Hunt any legislation you would suggest specifically to help or just to help in general if if you again were a legislator if you were a member of Congress.
▶ 2:02:28Uh thank you for that question. I think uh to start I would codify the president's authority to fire insubordinate or unproductive employees and so it's the schedule F. I would extend that to all executive branch employees. Um I don't think it would have the kind of effect that some on the left have claimed. I think um it would just give whoever the executive is, whether that's a Democrat or Republican, the ability to remove people that are again unproductive or uh insubordinate.
▶ 2:02:56At the end of the day, federal workers shouldn't have more protection than private sector workers. But get this, chairman, a private employee is five times more likely to get fired or laid off from work than a government employee. that shouldn't be that big of a disparity. And so that's the problem with the way um our government is set up is there's no market forces on the federal government. And so when they fail to address a problem, what is their solution? It's the same every time.
▶ 2:03:26Just throw money at it, right? Oh, we weren't able to fix this problem, so let's just bring more personnel in. And so and so the people that were ineffective, that were unable to accomplish the mission are then just transferred over to another department so that this this unit can do the mission. And so that's wrong. in the private world, those people would have to be dismissed and go find another job. And so the president and he can push that down for the FBI's case to to Director Patel. He can delegate that power. Uh but to give him the authority to remove those people more easily would be great. Thank you, Mr. Stout.
▶ 2:03:58Chairman, I think post 911, Director Mueller changed the organization, shifted it to more of an intelligencebased collection and got away from facts and law enforcement. and we still had that, but the emphasis was on best guess. And I think that's what we need to return to is back to factbased investigations. I don't think that's going to take a lot of legislative work. I just think that's going to take internal internal policy changes and working with DOJ. Shouldn't cost the taxpayers anything.
▶ 2:04:28It's just a shift in thinking. I thank you and I think you're correct. I don't think that's necessarily a legislative change, but just a change in direction and thought, whoever is in control. Miss Parker, thank you. First of all, just real quick, I wanted to speak to ranking member Crockett. I have an appreciation for what you're saying between right and wrong. I myself received a message on X this morning. Um, wishing that I was inside of a Tesla that would explode. And so, I understand what it feels like to receive a threat. It's entirely inappropriate and unacceptable and I should not be the target of violence.
▶ 2:04:58And so, I just wanted to tell you that is wrong and that should be someone needs to be held accountable for that. I will say likewise that that is wrong. That is wrong. And you know, just to chime in for a second, unfortunately, I'm getting used to it. You know, it's it's it's a sad commentary, but I think we all are. You know, and that is one thing that I w I believe there could be bipartisan agreement to just cut that out.
▶ 2:05:22And it's our responsibility to try not to promote it, all of us in whatever position we have, and to make sure that we protect those that are in harm's way. So, I thank you for that remark as well legislative. So, so an answer legislatively, I mean, getting back to what the FBI's core mission is, and I I'm not sure how you're going to legislate this, but the bottom line is there has to be transparency. There has to be accountability, and there has to be consequences. And again, it's not about what side of the political spectrum you stand on. It should be completely irrelevant.
▶ 2:05:49Again, when you walk into the door as an FBI agent, it shouldn't matter if you voted for this person or that person. You put your political persuasions and opinions to the side, and you do the right thing for the right reasons. And I am a very big proponent obviously of stopping violent crime, stopping human trafficking and keeping all Americans safe. You think there should be for those that misuse your misuse their power in the FBI or in general department of justice attorney should be should there be enhanced penalties or penalties? Absolutely.
▶ 2:06:17If you're abusing your law enforcement power to push your political and social agendas and doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, you must be held accountable. And again, I agree with um Witson in the private sector. I came from a hedge fund and and worked on Wall Street before this. That would not be tolerated. If you're not doing your job and you're not contributing to the mission, it is not okay to be a federal employee and just come and collect a paycheck when you're actually not contributing to the mission. And unfortunately, I saw that quite frequently at the FBI. I would say a small percentage of the agents are doing a lot of the work. Thank you. Dr.
▶ 2:06:48Hunt, I have a very concrete suggestion. I would uh request that director um Patel, deputy director Bonjino um put into policy that no investigation can be opened without predication. That's currently not what policy is. And I think that should also be as far as I can tell legislated. Moreover, the second point I would require or I would request was that all FBI agents serve the constitution, not any political agenda.
▶ 2:07:17But the concrete one is that assessments, investigations are based only on predication. I thank you for that. I want to thank everybody for being here today. Like I said, time is treasure. It's a big deal. We appreciate all of you. It concludes today's hearing. Uh without objection, all members will have Oh, sorry. I have a UC. Okay. Sorry about that. Um I'd ask I'd like uh unanimous consent to enter into the record an article titled No Bias Found Catholic History. Thank you.
▶ 2:07:48Uh, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. Without objection, the hearing is