▶ 0:23:21Committee will come to order. Uh today we continue our posture hearings with Yukon. I want to thank the witnesses for being here and General Kaboli as this will be your last appearance before this committee. I want to thank you for your incredible service to our nation over a very long time. Thank you, sir. Today, we gather with heavy hearts after the loss of four American service members in a tragic training accident in Lithuania.
▶ 0:23:47I want to thank our Lithuanian and Polish allies for their sparing no resource to recover the fallen. Now, uh let me open with something fundamental. Vladimir Putin is not our friend. He is an unreformed KBA KGB agent who believes the collapse of the Soviet Union was quote the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century close quote.
▶ 0:24:14His desire to reconstitute the Soviet Union drove him to attack Georgia in 2008, invade Crimea and the Donbos in 2014, and then launch a fullscale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Those that blame NATO enlargement or suggest that Russia was somehow provoked into t attacking Ukraine are wrong.
▶ 0:24:42The Ukrainian people have fought bravely over three years to defend their freedom. But I agree with President Trump. It is time to stop the bloodshed. President Biden never had a plan to end the war. By slow rolling weapon deliveries and imposing loophole ridden sanctions, he allowed the conflict to grind to a stalemate. President Trump has broken that deadlock. Ukraine has agreed to a ceasefire as a first step, showing their desire for peace.
▶ 0:25:10Russia, however, has refused to do the same and continues to slaughter innocent victims. Just last week, Russia bombed a playground, killing nine children. Murdering innocent Ukrainian children does not advance peace. President Trump was right to warn Putin that if he doesn't start negotiating in good faith, then the US will ratchet up pressure and impose unprecedented sanctions.
▶ 0:25:38Because as President Trump knows, Putin only respects strength and he has acted accordingly. He sanctioned the Nord two, the Nordstream 2. He withdrew from the INF treaty after Russian violations. He sent additional US troops to Poland. And he armed Ukraine with anti-tank missiles, not blankets. That's why Putin didn't invade Ukraine during President Trump's first term. And that's also why Putin must prove he's serious about peace.
▶ 0:26:09And soon, we cannot allow Russia to drag out these negotiations. Now, while I agree that China is our pacing threat, we must remain tough and unwavering in the face of Russia's enduring threat. Because the reality is Russia maintains the world's largest and most diverse nuclear arsenal.
▶ 0:26:32And despite suffering mass massive losses in Ukraine, the Russian army is now larger than it was before the war. The Russian military is also reconstitution reconstituting faster expected and its industrial base is now on war footing and being supported unfortunately by China, North Korea and Iran.
▶ 0:26:55Given these threats, I'm concerned by reports that some at DoD are considering not only giving up NATO command, but also significantly reducing our posture in Europe. I'm especially concerned that Congress has not been consulted. US leadership in NATO is essential to ensure armeric American forces, including our nuclear weapons, always remained under US command.
▶ 0:27:22And cutting our presence in Europe now, especially on NATO's eastern flank, would only weaken leverage with Putin. Thanks to President Trump's leadership, our European NATO NATO allies are finally getting serious about investing in the alliance's collective defense. For the first time, it appears Europe is willing to shoulder most of the burden, and that's how it should be. And it's not just Poland, Romania, Finland, and the Baltic states.
▶ 0:27:52Allies across the alliance are ramp ramping up their defense spending. But Europe's rearmament will take time. putting back pre uh pulling back prematurely would risk inviting further Russian aggression, potentially even against NATO. That's why I strongly support maintaining the current US force posture in Europe at this time. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how the US and our NATO allies can ensure credible deterrence against Russia.
▶ 0:28:21With that, I yield to my friend and ranking member for any opening statement he may have. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to echo your opening comments thanking General Cavali for his leadership. Sad this will be your last time before us. You've done an amazing job in difficult times in Europe and also recognizing and offering condolences for our lost service members in Lithuania. The chairman and I had the opportunity last year to visit our troops in Lithuania. It's an incredibly important effort and it's a huge tragedy uh for the force. The obvious focus of this hearing with Europe is Ukraine.
▶ 0:28:51Um and I do want to offer a little bit of good news. Um, Ukraine is holding the line against all odds as they have for now over three years. We're in a real position to blunt Russia's momentum in Ukraine. It's a huge accomplishment, something that hasn't been talked about a lot. It is now more important than ever that we stick with Ukraine to stop Putin's invasion of Russia in its tracks and crucially force him to the table. I agree with the chairman. I even agree with the Trump administration. We need to find an end to this war.
▶ 0:29:22But you don't find an end to this war by undermining support for Ukraine and praising Putin in Russia. That empowers Putin for all the reasons that the chairman said. Putin has big ambitions in Europe. Those ambitions can be blunted if we are strong, if we deter him.
▶ 0:29:39But when Trump came into office, cut off intel support, cut off aid to Ukraine, bered Zalinsky, wouldn't even admit that Russia started this war, while at the same time praising Putin and Russia that opened the door wide for Vladimir Putin to walk right through. The pressure doesn't need to be on Sullinsky and Ukraine. Trust me, I think most people on this committee have been to Ukraine at one time or another.
▶ 0:30:04There is plenty of pressure on Ukraine being brought by Russia every single day. The pressure needs to be put on Putin and Russia to force them to the table. And that is what this administration has refused to do to date. It is prolonging the war and empowering Russia.
▶ 0:30:23And that needs to change because the larger question for this hearing and I agree with the chairman on the concerns about talk about downsizing in Europe and everything that goes into it is does this administration believe in the fundamental principle that has made our country strong for the last 80 years and that is the partnership and alliance in Europe. sticking with Europe, sticking with the countries that believe in greater political and economic freedom is to the benefit of the United States of America.
▶ 0:30:52And those countries are the countries in Europe, our allies, the European Union. It's not Russia and it's not Putin. One of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen is when the vice president went to Europe and instead of talking about Ukraine, he lectured Europe about freedom of speech. That that was the big problem with Europe. Well, to begin with, the idea that this administration cares at all about the freedom of speech is ridiculous.
▶ 0:31:19As we speak, they are purging the government of all manner of different words that they don't like. We had the great example of how pictures of the Anola gay disappeared from the Department of Defense website because they had an algorithm that said the word gay was problematic. Now, that's kind of funny when you stop and think about what the anola gay means. But even that stupid mistake aside, why are we banning the word gay from discourse?
▶ 0:31:47Books are being banned across the Department of Defense. One, a biography of Jackie Robinson because Lord knows we can't have people hearing about that. So the notion of someone from this administration lecturing anybody on free speech is offensive to anyone with an ounce of common sense. And it sure as hell should have been offensive to Europe. But let's remember, was there anything mentioned in that speech about how Russia treats free speech?
▶ 0:32:16About the fact that they have eliminated all free media, that they kill and jail their political opponents? Yes, we should stand for free speech. We should stand for economic and political freedom. But if we're going to do that, we should stand with Europe, not with Russia and Putin. And that is what's really at stake right now. Are we still willing to do that? And the question, well, how have we benefited from this economically?
▶ 0:32:43We have seen the greatest increase of wealth of any nation in the history of the world in the last 80 years. Now, I will grant you that wealth has not been distributed as fairly as it should have been, but we have benefited economically. We've also benefited militarily. Our European partners have stood with us in every conflict that we have fought since World War II. After 9/11, they stood with us. I have worked very closely with our special operations command, with everyone who's been fighting against al Qaeda and ISIS and all of those terrorist groups.
▶ 0:33:12Our European partners are crucial to that. Meanwhile, Russia is partnering with Iran. They're partnering with North Korea. They're partnering with China. When I hear people in administration say, "Ah, we got to pivot away from Europe because the Middle East, you know, Asia, that's what's important." Russia is in the middle of that and this administration does not show that they understand this in the slightest. We need to stand up for our European partners. Now, yes, there are clear things. The dollars matter.
▶ 0:33:39It is good that Europe is stepping up, but they stepped up on Ukraine. The US is somewhere like 13th or 14th in terms of percentage of GDP that we have contributed to this from all of our partners. I personally think the main reason that they stood up was because Russia invaded Ukraine. Presidents have been pressuring them forever. That is what focused their mind and that's good. Yes, we need to avoid getting into a war with Russia. Yes, we need peace in Ukraine.
▶ 0:34:05But you do not get there by belittling President Zalinski, by attacking Ukraine, by undermining support for Ukraine and praising Vladimir Putin and Russia. So we need to stand up for the alliances that have stood so well for us for 80 years.
▶ 0:34:22And that I think is what this committee really needs to hear from our witnesses today is how are we going to do that so that the the vision that the chairman correctly outlined that Putin has for the world does not come to pass that we deter him we stop the war and we protect economic and political freedom as have as we have done for a very long time. I look forward to the witness's testimony and to the questions and I yield back. I think we made it very clear how we feel about this.
▶ 0:34:53I thank the ranking member. U now I'd like to introduce our witnesses. Uh we have Miss Katherine Thompson is performing the duties of assistant secretary of defense for international and security affairs and general cavoi who is commander of US European command. With that, Miss Thompson, we'll start with you. You're recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. Thank you, Chairman Rogers. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee.
▶ 0:35:19Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today and it is my honor to appear alongside uh Yukcom Commander General Cavolei. Before I begin my formal statement, I would like to take a moment as well to echo the the chairman and ranking members comments to to honor the memory of the four American soldiers who died in Lithuania on March 26 while conducting tactical training. Uh my prayers are certainly with uh them and their families.
▶ 0:35:42I would also like to thank the people and government of Lithuania, Poland, and Estonia who provided exceptional support uh during the recovery operation. These nations showed our soldiers the highest level of respect during the dignified transfer back to the United States and we thank them uh for those efforts. President Trump has directed the Department of Defense to reorient the United States defense strategy so that it puts America's interests first. In Europe, that means working with our inter agency partners to bring an end to the war in Ukraine.
▶ 0:36:10It also means finding new ways to strengthen NATO so that the alliance can be as effective in this century as it was in the last. To be sure, neither of these efforts will be easy. Not for us and not for our allies. But taking these measures is essential. It is doable, and doing so will leave both the United States and our allies and partners better off. President Trump has spoken often and clearly about achieving lasting peace in Ukraine. This is vital to stop the bloodshed.
▶ 0:36:38It will also set Europe on a trajectory towards security and stability like the region has not seen for many years. This is not only good for Ukraine, but it is also good for our NATO allies. And of course, it is most importantly good for Americans who benefit from a stable and secure Europe. Already the president's team is making progress in this regard. Under his leadership, both Russia and Ukraine have come to the negotiating table, and already we are seeing initial ceasefire take hold. The contours of a lasting peace are coming into view.
▶ 0:37:08President Trump and Secretary Hegsth have stated clearly that the United States will not put boots on the ground in Ukraine. At the same time, they have made clear that Europeans must take the lead in supporting Ukraine's defense requirements in the years ahead. And our allies are taking steps to that effect. Last month, for instance, the United Kingdom hosted the Ukraine Defense Contact Group. The UK and France have also committed to lead additional efforts to ensure a lasting peace in Ukraine.
▶ 0:37:34As the president and secretary have said, far more will be required of them and other allies. But it is a promising start and our allies deserve credit for taking these initial steps. Given the sensitive nature of ongoing negotiations, I will limit my remarks on this subject to this statement. I look forward to being able to share more as peace negotiations proceed. NATO played a crit a central role in America's strategy throughout the cold war. If not for the alliance, it is not clear that the cold war would have remained just that, cold.
▶ 0:38:03But then the cold war ended and as it did, our NATO allies forgot how important it was to invest in their defense. Instead, they grew accustomed to the peace that defined Europe at the height of the unipolar moment and they divested of their militaries accordingly. But peace can never be taken for granted and it must be maintained and that requires all of us allies and the United States alike to do our part. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for too many of our NATO allies in the east.
▶ 0:38:29Some of our allies, as the ranking member pointed out, did not forget the necessity of investing in their defenses. Even today, allies like Poland and many of the Baltic nations already spend more on defense than the United States does as a percentage of GDP. and they are going even higher and are on track to reach uh President Trump's target of 5%. These are model allies, but they can only do so much on their own. Western and Central Europe are home to several of the world's largest and wealthiest economies. These allies are more than capable of raising powerful militaries.
▶ 0:38:59Tragically, however, they have chosen not to do so. Instead, for decades, they have shown themselves content to free ride, not just at the expense of American taxpayers, but at the expense of their fellow allies security. President Trump has been clear this is not acceptable. As a matter of justice, Americans are tired of subsidizing Europeans defenses and by extension their vast welfare states. But this is also a matter of prudence. Over the last four years, the international threat environment has grown far more dangerous and we must all do our part to restore peace through strength.
▶ 0:39:29This is why Secretary Hegs has reorient reoriented DoD squarely on war fighting and lethality and this is why he has called for a factory reset of the NATO alliance. As the secretary said at the gathering of the NATO defense ministers in February, it is time for our NATO allies to take primary responsibility for Europe's conventional defense, relying on the United States for critical but more limited support, including, of course, our extended nuclear deterrent.
▶ 0:39:54That means that our NATO allies must take the lead in providing Ukraine with the security assistance it needs going forward to achieve lasting peace. At the same time, they must generate, field, and sustain the forces required to deter aggression against the alliance itself, including the seas around it, like the Red Sea. If our allies do these things, there is no question that NATO can be as effective in this century as it was in the last, and all of Europe can realize peace and stability for decades to come.
▶ 0:40:19But our allies will only be able to achieve these goals if they raise defense spending to 5% of their respective GDPs, as President Trump has emphasized. At the same time, our allies must focus these resources on where they are needed most, on Europe's defense, not on the Indoacific and not on the host of other uh missions that NATO has taken upon itself recently to to field in recent years and detract from the alliance's proper focus on war fighting, lethality, and deterrence. President Trump has vowed to achieve peace through strength, and the Department of Defense will do its part.
▶ 0:40:49Now, it is time for our NATO allies to do theirs, and in the process set conditions for a lasting peace in Europe. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Thompson. Uh, General Kabola, you're recognized. Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, distinguished members of the committee. It's an honor to be here again today representing the men and women of US European Command.
▶ 0:41:09Um, it's an honor to be here with Sergeant Major Rob Abernathy, who's been with me the entire command term in Yukon, and I'm glad to be sitting here next to the to the person performing the duties of Assistant Secretary of Defense Thompson. Um, thank you for your condolences for the soldiers we lost in Lithuania. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, um, our heartfelt condolences go out to their families. Uh, they came from all over the United States, from Georgia to Michigan all the way to Guam.
▶ 0:41:38Um, and they represented the very best that we have to offer. They were they were off on a night mission to recover another vehicle. Um they were mechanics and um and they were tragically lost in a in a in a in a bog. Um the people of Lithuania and the government of Lithuania responded to that in the most heartwarming and reassuring fashion.
▶ 0:42:02Um a week ago Sunday, I went to Lithuania to inspect the operation to try to recover the vehicle and the soldiers. Um the Minister of Defense of Lithuania was on that site every single day until those soldiers were recovered. Um there was a mass, a holy mass held by the Archbishop of Vius, um who's a Lithuanian American from Chicago. Uh there were 2,000 people at that church service.
▶ 0:42:32And the stated purpose of the mass was to pray for the families of the servicemen who were apparently lost. Uh uh I I was touched by it and I think all Americans would have been touched by it. It's the spirit that that undergurs the alliance uh that the chairman and the ranking member talked about. Before I begin, please let me thank this committee for all your support uh to our service men and women in their mission. Um we continue to face historic times in the European theater.
▶ 0:43:00Russia's war in Ukraine, which is now in its fourth year, has revealed Russia to be a chronic threat. And in the coming years, it's going to be a growing threat. one that is willing to use military force to achieve geopolitical goals and is actively waging a campaign of destabilization across Europe and beyond. Further exacerbating this Russian threat are the deepening partnerships among our adversaries in Russia, Iran, the Chinese Communist Party and the DPRK.
▶ 0:43:28These linkages increasingly pose a global risk. But US Yukon and the NATO alliance have risen to the challenge. NATO deterrence has held. War has not spilled into NATO territory. With support from a broad international coalition, US Yukon led the charge in helping Ukraine. We established Security Assistance Group Ukraine, which is now commanded by Lieutenant General Curtis Buzzard.
▶ 0:43:52And for 38 months of this war, Sagu has delivered critical munitions, arms, and equipment from the US and our allies. These efforts have been indispensable in enabling the Ukrainian armed forces and have empowered them to mount a courageous defense. And now NATO has taken up this task. NATO has established in record time an organization to take over much of SAGU's mission.
▶ 0:44:16The threat of war also led the NATO alliance to embark upon an historic campaign to fundamentally overhaul and modernize its military capabilities. After years of underinvestment, too many years, our allies are finally optimizing the alliance for high-end war fighting. And within NATO, we now have the plans, the forces, the command and control, and we have the focus to meet that mission.
▶ 0:44:41And there's still much to do, but our allies are investing in defense at a rate we haven't seen since the Cold War. A 40% increase overall since February of 2022. So throughout this intense and challenging transformation of the alliance's warfighting structures, the presence of US Yukon forces has been essential to the alliance's modernization efforts. We've converged US headquarters with NATO command structures.
▶ 0:45:07We've increased combined training and exercises and we've been accelerating European modernization and readiness. So through US leadership, we are laying the groundwork for European leadership and thus for more years of peace and prosperity for the United States. There is a long road ahead. Sustained vigilance and pressure will be required. We have done all this to protect vital US interest.
▶ 0:45:32Our strengthened allies will increase our strength and our deep relationships with them give us the access, the basing, and the intelligence to defend our country forward. The first line of defense of our homeland begins in Yukon, where our naval forces prevent Russian submarines from breaking out into the Atlantic and threatening the United States. The ballistic missile defense of Israel begins in Yukon from ships positioned in the Eastern Mediterranean.
▶ 0:46:00And in Yukon, it's our job safely to evacuate Americans from the Levant. We are America's force forward in the world. So ladies and gentlemen, this is my last annual testimony to you as I'm closing 38 years of service. It's been the honor of a lifetime to serve with our brilliant members during these historic times. And I continue to be inspired by their commitment to our nation's forward defense. I thank you, our Congress, for your unwavering support of our servicemen and women, to their well-being, and your support to their mission.
▶ 0:46:30America is the greatest country in the world and it is in large part because our armed forces are the greatest in the world. I look forward to questions. I thank both the witnesses. I recognize myself for questions. General Kavoi, given Russia's armed forces are mobilized for long-term confrontation. What's your best military advice on whether or not DoD should maintain the current force posture in Europe for the foreseeable future?
▶ 0:46:59Chairman, it's my advice to maintain that force posture um as it is now. We have reviewed periodically since the since in 2022 we originally surged forces forward. We have periodically reviewed the force structure at both the military level and the policy level and I have consistently recommended throughout that period to maintain the forces. We surged forward um and and I would continue to do so now if asked. Yeah.
▶ 0:47:27Now, you referenced this in your opening statement. I would like for you to reiterate it. How does the US force posture in Europe contribute to the defense of our homeland as well as our operations in Sentcom and Afric? Sir, thanks. Yeah, it's it's an important part of of why we're there. First and foremost, Russian strategic forces. Russia continues to have very powerful strategic forces, thousands of nuclear weapons and the delivery methods to to to deliver those.
▶ 0:47:57Those are not pointed just any place. Th those are pointed th those are there. They exist for America. And our defense against those strategic forces whether in the air or under sea begins in the European continent. Um, for example, Russian submarines are mainly stationed with the north the northern fleet up in Merman up in the area up uh east of the uh the northern Nordic countries.
▶ 0:48:25They come out of their harbors and they go south between Greenland, Iceland, and the United Kingdom. The famous GI UK gap. We have to bottle them up north of that gap. if they break out into the Atlantic for a variety of reasons gets tougher to track them. Um and from those positions they can hold the uh they can hold the country at risk.
▶ 0:48:47Um so our maritime efforts which are greatly aided by the efforts of our allies, their maritime patrol aircraft, their anti-ubmarine uh helicopters, um their destroyers, all of our efforts together, but built around America's exquisite capabilities. That's the first line of defense against Russian subs. If we look to the south, um, uh, we participated in the defense of Israel early this year.
▶ 0:49:13Uh, US Central Command led a brilliant campaign with the Israelis and some other allies to protect against Iranian attacks against Israel. The ballistic missile defense part of that comes off of Yukcom uh, uh, ships in the Eastern Mediterranean. The refuelers come out of Yukon. The airspace control comes out of Yukon. We do the same for Aricom and everybody else. Uh it's really because of our proximity and our familiarity with the area.
▶ 0:49:40The bases that we have in Europe and the legal permissions we have with nations hosting us give us the ability to project power quickly in our interest on behalf of our US unilateral interest. Thank you, General. Miss Thompson, given everything you've just heard, does the department support maintaining its current posture in of US forces in Europe for the foreseeable future? Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:50:06Uh, the department right now is undergoing a global force posture review and so we are taking into account um not only the dynamics in Yukon but in all of our our theaters and evaluating that um based on President Trump's stated uh interests and sizing our force and our resources appropriately to that. Um no decisions have been made at this time as part of that global force posture review. It is ongoing.
▶ 0:50:30I think that the ranking member and I have made it very clear in our previous correspondence to the department and I think in this opening statements, you should be focused on maintaining the surge posture that we've had in Europe since the conflict was started by Russia for the foreseeable future.
▶ 0:50:50General Cavoli, you noted in your written statement and in u uh that the inadequate US defense production capacity and problems within four military sales systems are making it hard for Europe to buy US weapons. What challenges does that this pose to your command responsibilities in Yukon? Thank you, chairman. Um in my oral statement, in my opening statement, I talked about an historic transformation of allied command operations, the operational force in NATO.
▶ 0:51:18So we've designed these plans to defend um NATO territory and from that we derive a force structure requirement a description of what exactly forces and how many of them we need. So this is sort of the spending list the shopping list for defense spending in Europe. Now increasingly nations are putting money up against that shopping list. 23 nations are spending above 2% right now. We're grateful for that. But there's got to be something in the store to buy there.
▶ 0:51:48There is a lack of production capacity right now. And um that's the first problem. The second problem is I'm sorry, my time's expired. I'm going have to yield to the ringing me. Thank you, chairman. Yeah, I need to drive home that point with the chairman. Our production capacity is a major problem. Um even if we do spend more money, I think that the summary of what you just said, you know, it's great you have the money, you have to have something to buy. Um so, and part of the challenge here, we don't have a budget yet from the president. I'm not going to be harshly critical of that when you have your first term.
▶ 0:52:17We didn't get the budget from President Biden until midMay either once we see that budget. A lot of the these questions will will be in a better place. But General Kavali, can you tell us what's going on in the war in Ukraine right now? We seem to have forgotten those details. Um it is still ongoing. Russia is still attacking, but how is Ukraine doing in terms of holding off those attacks in the east primarily? Sure.
▶ 0:52:41Uh, Congressman, um, starting on the ground, if I could take just a moment and sketch down an imaginary map, if we look in the the northeastern part of the battlefield up near the Russian province of Kursk. Um, uh, that's the northern extent of the front line of troops.
▶ 0:53:01As you know, last summer, late last summer, Ukraine um uh pushed into Russia there and established a salient of several hundred square kilometers in a uh sort of surprise move. They've continued to hold that. The the Russians vowed to kick them out by the end of last September. Uh the Ukrainians are still there. There are still a certain number of brigades.
▶ 0:53:24I could go into the details but I guess in general is it fair to Russia has been throwing a lot of troops and taking a lot of casualties particularly in the last month or two has that stalled across you know you from Harkke down to Hersan basically the front or are there places where Russia's making progress so Russia has stopped making progress in Kursk right now they haven't been able to dislodge the Ukrainians um if we come all the way down the front along um Chasivar are in the towns
▶ 0:53:54in Lugansk. If we go down to Pakovsk in in Dyetsk, the Russians attacks seem to have petered out. They've decreased in the last couple of weeks significantly in number, but the size and scope of the attacks seems to have petered out as well. The Ukrainians are in good positions. They're in good defensive positions. Um they've improved some of their readiness and manpower situation. Um they are indeed producing large numbers of Russian casualties.
▶ 0:54:21Um in a couple of minor places the Ukrainians have actually gained some ground back, but um but I I do not see the Ukrainians being in imminent danger of collapse. I do see the Russians struggling to make the kind of gains they were making last autumn. Yeah. And did one of in your opening statement, Miss Thompson, when you said that the ceasefire continues to hold that there there is no ceasefire. Let's just be clear about that. The war is very much ongoing.
▶ 0:54:48I mean, as the chairman noted, I mean, Russia just bombed um Kev and, you know, killed a whole bunch of people. What do you mean the ceasefire is holding when the war goes on? Thank you for the question. Uh, Congressman, I can speak more to the specifics when we go into close session. I'm happy to share more, I think. But I I I would point to the progress that the administration has made. You would acknowledge the war is still going. There is no ceasefire at the moment.
▶ 0:55:12So again, from the administration's perspective, what we would say is the goal is to to get both sides to the table to have peace negotiations so that the war doesn't continue. Um, that's priority number one and and I would point to the progress we've made on the energy infrastructure ceasefire and again happy to provide more color in in closed session. But I would I would point to that as as the starting point and and you know conversations as a general rule to to create the notion that there's some kind of ceasefire over there is wildly inaccurate and and misleading. And and one other question on the budget.
▶ 0:55:43You mentioned that we want Europe to get to 5% of GDP. The US, as I understand it, is right around 3% of GDP, and the budget hasn't come out yet. Is it the president's intention to try to get us to 5% of GDP? And just top of the head math, that would mean a defense budget of somewhere around 1.5 1.6 trillion. Does the administration intend to get to a 5% GDP number in the US?
▶ 0:56:10and if not, how does that square with demanding that Europe do that? Thank you for the the question and I think I would point you to President Trump's framing of of the 5% comment first and foremost, which is that um his view is that our European and Canadian allies should be up 5% um and and the expectation is not necessarily for um a stronger US commitment. The US has already committed um you know over $350 billion in in effort to the to the war effort in Ukraine. We've been uh the top spender in NATO for the better part of at least a decade.
▶ 0:56:40And so the goal for from President Trump's perspective for the 5% target is to ensure that our our European and Canadian allies uh make up the deficit that has essentially existed for the better part of a decade. So So no, we we don't intend to try to get to 5% in the US. On specifics for the budget, I would point you to to the comproller and and budget decisions are not finalized. So I wouldn't want to speak to that and get ahead of the decisions there. I'm out of time. I owe it back. Thank you.
▶ 0:57:07Uh, I would point out that we are in NATO and everybody in NATO should get to 5% just like President Trump said, including the United States. Gentleman from South Carolina is recognized. Thank you both for being here and amen, Mr. Chairman, and I'm just so grateful to have uh both of you serving. Uh, it's so reassuring to the American people.
▶ 0:57:28And uh as a veteran myself and as the father of four sons who've served uh overseas uh in the military, I want to offer condolences uh to your team on the loss of the four American service members who recently passed away with our allies in Lithuania. Staff Sergeant Troy Kudson Collins, Staff Sergeant Jose Dunes, Staff Sergeant Edund Franco, and Private First Class Dante Titano.
▶ 0:57:54Uh I especially identify I spent many many summers uh National Guard training at Fort Stewart and I know the quality and the competence of the people serving there. Uh reading about how our European allies came together to help the recovery efforts is a strong demonstration of the efforts to stand side by side in times of need. And I'm grateful that our NATO allies are really coming forward.
▶ 0:58:18And I particularly appreciate, Madam Secretary, uh the president's efforts to encourage our allies to reach the 2% and they are and uh but with his encouragement. And so it's it's so encouraging as we try to res achieve peace through strength. And indeed to me it's so important because we're in a conflict we have not chosen and that is dictators with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of law. It began February 24, 2022. War criminal Putin invading Ukraine.
▶ 0:58:47uh then on October 7, puppets of Iran invaded Israel. Uh it's uh such a clear connection of the dots and both of them being backed up by the Chinese Communist Party and then keeping that in mind with European command. Uh what we see I believe is Warren Putin is making every effort to resurrect the failed Soviet Union. He really never left with Russian troops in Transnistria, Muldova.
▶ 0:59:16they uh were supposed to leave but they did not and so they occupy part of Muldova. Additionally, we know they rigged the elections in Bellarus. Then there was the invading invasion of Georgia and the annexation of South OS of Kazia. And then you had the invasion of Ukraine with tens of thousands of people killed in 2014 and 2022.
▶ 0:59:38And then you had the rigging of the national elections uh October 26 in Georgia uh where uh the effort was made to replace the very courageous president Salom Vaseli. Uh and over and over again we can see and then we see uh even uh more recently the efforts to uh rig the elections of Romania but fortunately they were not successful.
▶ 1:00:02Uh, General Cavali, you mentioned in your uh, presentation that war criminal Putin is on pace to replace all the combat material that was damaged or lost throughout its invasion of Ukraine. What are the implications that this new supply of munitions and combat vehicles is helping Russia modernize its That's exactly what it's doing, sir. It's it's uh, helping to modernize their military. They have very extensive modernization plans and expansion plans.
▶ 1:00:32The Russians about a year and a half ago announced an intention um to grow their armed forces to 1.5 million up from 900,000. Um a significant increase uh to establish new commands, especially in the ground forces in northeastern part of Europe, that is on the border of NATO with Finland and the Baltics. They're on the path to doing that. They're not going very quickly because they're devoting so much to the effort in Ukraine. We'll see how much effort they'll be able to put into it after the war.
▶ 1:01:02It depends largely how the war ends, but that modernization program is intended to go right back and challenge NATO um on the borders of NATO and indeed to the United States. Uh how important it is is it for us to produce conventional combat vehicles for future Oh, I believe I believe uh combat vehicles and tanks maintain an important place on the battlefield.
▶ 1:01:28Um and our ability to produce them is going to have a lot to do with our ability to have a strong army component to our uh joint force. And in general, I'm very encouraged that actually uh the Ukrainians have done so well uh in reducing the capabilities of war criminal Putin. Uh when the dictator of Assar Assad of Syria was asking for assistance uh in November, it wasn't given and he had to flee to Moscow.
▶ 1:01:52And so the people of Ukraine should be given credit that now there's a potential liberation for the people of Syria. And we already know the unintended consequence of what War Camel Put Putin did of having Finland and Sweden join NATO. So over and over again, it's so encouraging. A key point too is NATO now NATO countries in the EU provide more aid and have provided more aid than the United States. But thank goodness for President Trump that he's there to provide peace through strength. Thank you.
▶ 1:02:22I thank the gentleman from South Carolina. I will now recognize a gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney. Thank you, uh, Mr. Whitman and thank you um General Cavolei particularly for your heartfelt um comments regarding the fallen uh and also again the really sincere efforts by our allies um to assist in every way possible.
▶ 1:02:42I to me in some ways that speaks more loudly uh about the value of um an alliance that's been around for so long and is is founded on shared values and interests. um in your narrative about the state of play with Ukraine right now. I mean, one aspect um which I think sometimes gets uh overlooked a little bit in in the US is the fact that Ukraine has not just held the line in the Black Sea.
▶ 1:03:09It's actually pushed the Russian Navy uh to the furthest eastern uh end of the Black Sea. They've um sank a third of the Black Sea fleet, including its uh flagship Moscava. sank a kilo uh submarine in Sevastapole.
▶ 1:03:25And um again, I just in terms of the state of play right now, we saw seal launched missile attacks over the weekend by Russia, which actually has not happened much since uh Ukraine without a navy has been able to push back the Russian fleet.
▶ 1:03:42Can you comment again in terms of just how extraordinary you know that achievement is without a navy and and also how whether or not the you know safe passage of grain shipments are now going to be at risk because Russia now seems to be sort of taking advantage of the low. Congressman um thanks for the opportunity to comment on one of the most amazing maritime feats um in in years.
▶ 1:04:11So you put your finger right on it. Not only did Ukraine roll back the presence of the Black Sea Fleet, they don't even have a navy. They have given us all a view of a future where unmanned surface vehicles. Basically sea drones have the potential to wage conflict at a large scale against a traditional manned navy. Um uh really remarkable.
▶ 1:04:38They have had some help from us, from our European allies, but I should stress that a great deal of their expertise is indigenous. It's it's grown with their own engineers, their own lessons learned. Um it it's remarkable. They did clear out a passage lane for safe passage of grain ships from um from uh uh Odessa down to the Turkish Straits.
▶ 1:05:02And that has been what has been securing the uh free passage of grain, the Black Sea grain initiatives, you know, long defunct. Um so that's very encouraging. Russia did launch some some some surface launch cruise missiles the other day. They have been doing that. They have the capability to do that all the way from the Caspian if you want to know the truth. Um so it's not unusual for them to do that. They don't have a very good ability to hit moving targets with those missiles though.
▶ 1:05:28Um so so I think there's a lot of space where we can help the Ukrainians here to uh to continue to protect. Great. Thank you. I mean and to Mr. Smith's point um the notion that um Miss Thompson the ceasefire is taking hold uh the fact that again there were sea launched attacks maybe not on moving vessels but they certainly hit um cities in in Ukraine over the weekend. Um that clearly shows that whatever um holding the administration may think is happening.
▶ 1:05:56Um, in fact, I would argue we we're going in the reverse direction in terms of where we were before um the the negotiations in Riyad. Mr. Chairman, there's an article uh in the April 7th, just yesterday's uh Kev Post headline, Russia mocks Trump ceasefire deal with sea launch missile attack on Ukrainian cities. I ask that it be made part of the record. Without objection. Thank Um, so General Kavali, you talked about the the value of the alliance in terms of tracking on Russian submarine.
▶ 1:06:26Again, I represent Graten, Connecticut, which we have a 15 attack subs that are sort of part of that team sport that our NATO allies uh do to protect the homeland and and General Guillot talked about that last week. Again, quickly before you're I'm done, could you maybe just again describe how the NATO anti-ubmarine warfare effort, which is a team sport, really uh is so important? Yes, absolutely.
▶ 1:06:51I I'll do it in generalities, uh, Congressman, because so much of undersea warfare is is is held pretty closely by nations to include ours, of course. Um, yeah. So um uh sub hunting consists basically of submarine looking for submarine maritime patrol aircraft using various means to look for submarines and helicopters looking for submarines and then surface vessels usually destroyers or frigots um using their assets
▶ 1:07:21to look and we combine all four of those dimensions to surge in specific areas that we you know that our intelligence helps us to figure We're not, we don't have the world's monopoly on all that equipment and it's very uh exquisite equipment. We don't have as much of it as we wished we have. Our allies do, our Norwegian allies, our UK allies. Um the land space in Iceland where we base maritime patrol car uh aircraft out of Keelbec.
▶ 1:07:51Um um the refueling ships to keep our destroyers at sea. Um uh Danish frigots. All of this comes together and gets orchestrated. Gentleman's time's expired. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your great opening statement and your great articulation of the importance of our support for Ukraine, the importance of our support for NATO, the importance of NATO's um integration into our own national security.
▶ 1:08:21I appreciate also the ranking members statements. I appreciate the chairman's statement with chairman Wicker um concerning the importance of the supreme allied commander position. General Kavoi, thank you for your great service as Supreme Allied Commander um and the work that that you have done. Uh General Cavoli, we have nuclear weapons in Europe, do we not? Um yes, we do.
▶ 1:08:47The the number and the modification of them is classified, but their existence is not. It is important that the United States has those nuclear weapons there. Correct. Yes. They fall under my command and control for that purpose, sir, as the commander of Yukon. And so it is important that the United States have the position of supreme allied commander because we have nuclear weapons in Europe.
▶ 1:09:11Sir, um we we um if those nuclear weapons were going to be um uh offered to the alliance for nuclear deterrence or for nuclear operations, that would come under the command of the supreme allied commander. The way we're currently set up, I as the commander of Yukon own the weapons and I hand them to myself as the supreme allied commander.
▶ 1:09:38That's possible because I am the same person and I am American. So I I really appreciate that you just did that straight line for everyone because the idiocy of the fact that there was any discussion about the aspects of relinquishing the demand or even the rumor of relinquishing the demand is just beyond me.
▶ 1:10:03um because you both indicated that we have nuclear weapons in Europe, that it's important we have nuclear weapons in Europe, and that it's important that you have the command because you are an American and and they are under your command. Um so beyond all the other aspects of its importance, which is important, all of which are incredibly important to our national security, uh that alone ought to just end all of the debate.
▶ 1:10:32So, so thank you for making that with such unbelievable clarity. Um, there have been individuals who have unbelievably also stated that they don't understand why we have bases in Germany to defend Germany.
▶ 1:10:48Um, in your opening you were describing that you don't go to work every day to defend Europe, that you're part of the overall arching aspects of the extended uh uh reach of the United States national and international security apparatus.
▶ 1:11:08Would you please give us some description again of the fact that the work that you do that you're Yukcom but you don't sit around every day and wait to see whether or not there's someone who's trying to uh invade Germany that our bases in Germany actually where there are Americans are working every day on international security operations for the United States and on on international security issues around the
▶ 1:11:39Congressman, as the commander of US European Command, I have US missions. I take all of my instructions and my direction from the United States, from the Secretary of Defense. And um I am there exclusively to pursue US interest and to defend US interest. In as much as I'm located in Europe with that force, it's almost always in conjunction with allies, but I am doing it from a US perspective for US interests.
▶ 1:12:09But you were describing Israel. Um you do things in um in the Middle East. You do things all around the world. You're not just sitting there defending Europe. No, no, sir. If you if you you know look at the Mediterranean Sea, three very important Europe uh uh US combatant commands come together there. There's US Afric Langley, there's US Sentcom with Eric Carilla and there's Yukcom.
▶ 1:12:36and um the intersection of the boundaries of those three organizations demands that we work together in the event Yukcom has the most bases and the most developed infrastructure to be able to support the other two. So obviously I spend more time supporting General Langley in Africa than he spends you know supporting me me in Europe.
▶ 1:13:00Um this is as a result of the infrastructure, the bases, the forces we have located there and very importantly the governmenttogovernment agreements we have that permit us to use non US territory to stage our operations. Mr. Chairman, thank you. That was very important, General. I appreciate that. Thank the gentleman chair. I recognize gentleman from California, Mr. Gari. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your clarity of your statement uh as well as for the ranking member, Mr. Smith.
▶ 1:13:29Uh, General Cavolei, thank you for your service. You've been at this a long time and the clarity of your testimony today is extraordinarily important to all of us about the role of uh, YUCOM and the defense of Europe, also the defense of the United States.
▶ 1:13:46My question really goes to Miss Thompson and I would like to have clarity about the administration's uh belief or not that our NATO European partners are critical to US national Thank you for the question, Congressman.
▶ 1:14:06I I would point you to Secretary Hegs's comments on his first trip overseas, which was to the NATO defense ministerial, and and where he acknowledged that NATO is the most successful defense alliance in history, and that he made clear that we are not abandoning our European allies. In fact, uh our efforts and President Trump's efforts, particularly on the defense spending front, is meant to to bring our European allies alongside us to to develop a status quo. I got all that from your testimony, but my question was different.
▶ 1:14:34My question is, is or are the European allies critical to our national American security? I would say a strong uh defense and deterrence in Europe is certainly in our national interest, particularly as the department has uh an aim to focus on homeland defense.
▶ 1:14:54Um and certainly as the chairman and ranking member recognized uh the the looming threat of conflict with China in the Indoacific, having partners in Europe that um as allies and partners are strong on defense and deterrence and are capable um only helps further those interests for us. The the lack of clarity in your answer is noted.
▶ 1:15:14However, it's also clear that the statements from the administration, including the secretary uh and the vice president, would indicate that the administration does not value our NATO allies, calling them pathetic uh and other demeaning uh words, and also missing the monthly NATO meeting would indicate that perhaps
▶ 1:15:44the administration's view does not coincide with your roundabout statement. So the is, does the US still value the partners that we have in Europe? Thank you for the question, Congressman. And again, I would say as the secretary and the president have emphasized, we do value our our partners in Europe to the extent that they're willing to step up and and be strong allies and partners with us.
▶ 1:16:13and that means pulling their weight and that's that's the tough message and the honest message that this administration has been delivering and we believe it's it's important to be honest with our allies and that that only builds a stronger relationship uh for us and for our European allies and Maybe that's not correct. Maybe it weakens our partnership when you demean, when you discourage, and when you place them in a lower value.
▶ 1:16:42Uh moving beyond uh I just note the self-inflicted wounds that the administration has put in place in Europe and the extraordinary additional burden that places on uh our military leadership trying to hold it together. I want to also thank um Mr.
▶ 1:17:09uh Turner for the clarity that he brought with regard to the command of NATO. Uh General Cavolei, there are many facilities in Europe, some of them on the eastern side in Poland. Are there any plans to change the footprint of the military on the eastern front?
▶ 1:17:40Congressman, we move forces around frequently in Europe. Our air forces are hopping all around. Our maritime force are even our ground forces move move from place to place. But the principal locations where we have forces right now that that's where they are and that's that's where I'm planning to keep them. Um very generous.
▶ 1:18:01Um some of the countries on the eastern flank, Poland, $3.2 2 billion in infrastructure to provide um housing for our our our servicemen who are rotating through there. Lithuania is built a city for an armor battalion. Um I I think that got it your question, sir. If not, please let me know. I will in the classified. Thank you. Yield back. Thank you. Great. Gentleman's time's expired. Chair now recognize gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Dejar Lee. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:18:30I'd like to get through a couple questions with General Kell uh Cali or Kelli, I'm sorry. General, last month the Defense Innovation Unit announced that Yukon and Indopace would be the first to receive new generative artificial intelligent capabilities under the Thunder Forge initiative for operational planning and decision support from the command level perspective. How do you envision this technology enhancing Yukon's Oh, it's going to be fantastic if it uh if it works out the way it's supposed to.
▶ 1:19:00Congressman, it's a um it's a an ability to use artificial intelligence to do complex models and then to run scenarios in it. So effectively to do the sort of wargaming that used to involve a bunch of, you know, a bunch of majors hunk hunkered over a map in the middle of the night arguing back and forth. We'll be able to automate that and do thousands and thousands of iterations. It'll really help clarify some of our planning. Okay.
▶ 1:19:26What kind of guard rails are you putting in place to ensure that it augments rather than replaces human judgment, especially in high stakes or escalatory scenarios? Well, I I expect my subordinate officers to come to me with the decisions and the recommendations, not the computer. Um, yeah. No, it it it's an it's going to be an integral part of our staff process the way we do them now. It could conceivably help to replace some manpower, but in the beginning, it's designed to enable manpower. Okay.
▶ 1:19:55And General Cavoi, uh, I appreciate you raising the alarm about the roughly dozen European ports near or colllocated with logistic hubs that have significant Chinese investments. I think this is a critical issue that doesn't get the attention it deserves in Washington. Uh, what's your assessment of the risk this poses in a crisis? And when you bring these concerns directly to our allies, are they receptive to your concerns? Um, yeah, the concerns are obvious, sir. you know, we we could lose access at a critical time to a port.
▶ 1:20:25In our exercise program, we're very careful and very deliberate to exercise a wide variety of different port facilities so that we um understand the way they work and and their ownership and everything and so that we um exercise our rights to use them. um when we talk to our allies about them, they almost always immediately respond if we have concerns about the ownership.
▶ 1:20:52In some cases that we could talk about in close session, allied governments have intervened and stopped a tender um because it was going to uh put a critical piece of infrastructure potentially into the wrong hands. Mhm. And you also pointed to CCP link 5G infrastructure across parts of Europe as an area of concern. Uh beyond diplomacy, what tools do we have either bilaterally or through NATO to mitigate the surveillance and influence risk this poses?
▶ 1:21:22Um be beyond diplomacy, sir, I I think I'd do best to answer that in close session. Yes, sir. I yield back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Molton. Thank you, Chairman. Russia has launched,460 guided aerial bombs, 670 attack drones, and more than 30 missiles in the last week, killing at least 21 civilians, including nine children.
▶ 1:21:50Miss Thompson, do you think that that means we've seen an initial ceasefire take hold? To quote you, thank you for the question, Congressman. I would point out that this is an ongoing peace negotiation process. We are at the beginning stages. I'm asking if he thinks that that qualifies as a ceasefire taking hold. Again, I would I'm happy to provide additional color on what does that mean a ceasefire has taken hold? I am happy to provide more clarity on this situation. I'm willing to answer the question. You should answer questions when you come here, Miss Thompson.
▶ 1:22:19Miss Thompson, you said that the Pentagon is undergoing a worldwide force posture review based on President Trump's stated interests. We know a lot of things happen in this administration based on the whims of the president which tend to change daytoday. Do you think a force posture review should be based on the president's stated interests or on sound military advice?
▶ 1:22:40So first and foremost, our global posture review is informed by the president's national security priorities and then subsequently on our interim national defense strategy guidance and then ultimately what will be this administration's national just to be clear the national defense strategy is secondary to what the president wants.
▶ 1:22:57Again, I would say that Miss Thompson, you said that uh President Trump will restore peace through strength and quote, "We must all do our part to restore peace through strength." Does it show strength to blame Zalinsky for starting this war? I think the goal from President Trump is to bring both sides to the table, both Russia and Ukraine.
▶ 1:23:17Does it show strength to describe Russian President Vladimir Putin a war criminal as a genius as savvy for his invasion of Ukraine? Congressman, given the sensitive nature of negotiations, again, I don't want to provide any additional color. I'm just asking if you think it shows strength to praise Putin over our own intelligence agencies to say that we trust Putin more than the CIA. Does that show strength? Congressman, I would point to our overarching goal and certainly President Trump.
▶ 1:23:47I'm just asking if it shows strength. I get the overarching goals. You can point to whatever you want. I'm asking you to answer the question. Does it show strength to call Zalinsky an incompetent dictator while praising Putin as a quote strong leader?
▶ 1:24:00I think what shows strength is President Trump's ability to get both sides to the table, which is a facet that he's already achieved and what and what this administration continues to That's nice that you think that shows strength, but what I'm asking is does it show strength to say Zalinsky started the war, that he's an incompetent dictator and that Putin is a strong leader. Do you think that that statement shows strength? Yes or no, Miss Thompson? Congressman, for further questions on specifics on what President Trump has or hasn't said and the implications of that, I would point you to the to the White House.
▶ 1:24:28I represent the Department of Defense and and how Oh, you represent the Department of Defense. Great. So, do you think it shows strength to disclose top secret targeting information to our enemies hours before pilots are going to fly over enemy targets on a platform known to be targeted by our biggest adversaries? Do you think that shows strength? Congressman, again, I'm those are uh discussions that I'm not privy to and so No, no, no. You don't need to be privy to the discussions.
▶ 1:24:54I'm just asking you if you think it's shows strength to disclose top secret information. I think what shows strength on the the topic that we're here to discuss which is force posture in Europe. I'm not asking about that. I'm asking about whether we should disclose top secret information. You represent the Department of Defense. Are you going to are you going to hold the troops under the command of DoD accountable to keeping classified information safe?
▶ 1:25:20or do you think it shows strength to tell our troops that it's okay to disclose top secret information that they will not be held accountable if that happens? Congressman, I can only speak for myself and I personally practice all of the information security protocols of the department and it is the expectation of of the department in this position to do so and I certainly do. And do you hold yourself accountable for that? Uh personally hold myself accountable for compliance with information security. Absolutely.
▶ 1:25:47Well, that's a far cry from what we're seeing from the Secretary of Defense, who said that accountability is back, but has refused to hold himself accountable. General Cavoli, how many Lithuanians showed up for the mass to celebrate the lives of our service Um, Congressman, I I I couldn't give you an exact number. I don't know what the police counted, but it's the National Cathedral. It's in this main square in several hundred. Close to a thousand. What is it? Certainly over a thousand.
▶ 1:26:16We only have one president who spent $26 million on taxpayer funded golf vacations in the first 69 days since his inauguration and yet he couldn't leave a Saudi golf tournament to show up for the dignified transfer of those soldiers remains. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Bacon. Thank you both for being here.
▶ 1:26:44I appreciate you both and I applaud your service drunk and congratulate you. I served uh in Europe. I was commander at Rammstein, deputy commander at third air force. I know the importance of NATO. It's been the bedrock or the foundation of our security for seven decades and I know the threat that Russia poses studied my whole career. So my first question for Miss Thompson, I have significant concerns about our approach to relations with Russia.
▶ 1:27:10I do not like how we are treating Russia with kid gloves like they're our friend and often we use very harsh words towards our allies uh in Europe and Ukraine in particular. Does this administration see Russia as a potential partner in things such as resolving tensions in the Middle East? I'm just trying to get to motives.
▶ 1:27:31Congressman, what I would say is is as the uh interim national defense strategy guidance points out, um you know, Russia, Iran, North Korea, China still ha pose great threats and we live in an extremely dangerous security environment. And so I would I would acknowledge that upfront just to get to the crux of your question. Um what I would say is the goal for President Trump in peace negotiations is obviously to bring both sides to the table. And to do that, um, you know, we have to make sure that that both scales are are balanced to get both parties in a room and talking.
▶ 1:28:01And so, you know, what I would say from from what you're seeing from the administration is that at the end of the day, the goal is to get both sides to the table and keep both sides of the table so that we can get to the overall objective that I think we all share, which is an enduring peace in Ukraine. Does this administration believe that improved bilateral, including economic relations between the US and Russia is worth pursuing once peace in Ukraine has been achieved? Sir, unfortunately, I can't speak to those dynamics.
▶ 1:28:25Um, I would direct you to the the State Department for, you know, any sort of follow-on uh diplomatic elements that would come after this. The Department of Defense is squarely focused um on supporting President Trump's efforts to to reach an enduring peace. I just wish we had clear moral clarity when it comes to Russian Ukraine. Who's the good guy? Who's the bad guy? Who's the invader? Who's the victim? And who's committing the war war crimes?
▶ 1:28:50And I I applaud the efforts for peace, but we can't whitewash Russia's behavior to get them to the table. I think they they we all see that the what what they're doing, and we should be very clear about it. My next question is drunking. I'm deeply concerned about the security situation in Eastern Europe with the ongoing invasion of Ukraine by war criminal Putin. I believe that if he has not stopped Ukraine, he'll continue to turn his attention towards other former Soviet states like Moldova or going next to the Baltic nations, Latafia, Estonia, and Lithuania.
▶ 1:29:20Will the US maintain its presence in these countries to ensure that Russia is deterred from further aggression? Sir, clearly that will be a policy decision that will be made as as time time goes on. Um, we're in a good position right now. Is it correct the department's considering pulling out two rotational brigades out of Europe? Sir, as I said earlier, you know, there's a constant review of this all the time.
▶ 1:29:46Um, usually the dynamic is services are asking to recover some forces. They have readiness concerns, modernizations concerns. Um, uh, so th those discussions continue right right now. I think it'd be a grave mistake to pull forces out of Europe right now. I mean, this is a time to deter uh Russia and I think withdrawing forces is a sign of weakness and it it lowers our deterrence. One more follow-up question with you, Jookov.
▶ 1:30:12While I agree with the administration that focusing on China as our top threat is essential, I worry that we must not take our eye off of Russia and Europe. I believe adamantly that Putin will take any sign of US weakness in Europe as a chance to continue his campaign of aggression in a former Soviet territories. What is the overall US military posture in Europe going forward?
▶ 1:30:33The overall posture for the US military will be to um to accomplish the objectives that we talked about a few minutes ago in in my opening statement and in some of my responses to questions there are first and foremost to defend the United States of America forward. Um second to arrange for and to support US operations and other combatant commands and throughout Europe.
▶ 1:30:59and then of course to fight and deter as part of NATO uh to deter Russia. So uh we participate in NATO's deterrent strategy. We're a vital part of that. I expect that to continue going forward. Could you in my last remaining second just talk about the importance of the Baltic states? I'm the Baltic security uh caucus chairman and and they're right on the front lines. Yeah, they are right on the front lines.
▶ 1:31:23They are uh absolutely one of the places that the Russian Federation has focused their attention on their preliminary attention. Um setting up a narrative of disputed territories and things like that, passport diplomacy with Russian language people. Um subversion campaigns and sabotage campaigns, all of those things. Um so they are certainly on the front line. They know it. They respond.
▶ 1:31:54They all spend over 2%. Uh Estonia is over 3%. They've all devoted a huge fraction of their uh national power. Gentleman's time's expired. Chair now recognizes gentleman from California, Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. General Kavali, thank you for your service. You're going to be missed. I hope you continue to serve in a way that continues to contribute as you have done for so many decades to our country.
▶ 1:32:22I wish you the best in your next chapter and thank you so much for being here. I think the Russian threat and even the Chinese threat to a degree are so far removed from us here in the United States that it's hard for the people here to understand the reality or the severity. I have traveled to several NATO countries including the Baltics and let me tell you the threat is real and it is the top of mind for people there.
▶ 1:32:50General Kavali, were you once an I don't think you really ever stopped being once, sir. But when when I became a general, they took away my branch insignia. Yes, I was an infantry officer. As a marine, I can relate. Uh do you speak Russian? I do. Have you worked with Russians in your career? Yes, sir.
▶ 1:33:12You are also coming up on 40 years of distinguished career service in the army which during that time included director of Russia and the joint staff and you are a foreign area officer with a concentration on Eurasia. Based on the this experience, what is your assessment of the threat that Russia poses to the homeland and NATO? Um, sir, there there could be a long and complicated answer to that question, but instead I'll just go back to my opening statement.
▶ 1:33:43Uh, Russia is a chronic threat to the United States and will be a growing threat in the future. Thank you, Miss Thompson. Based on the situation that General Kavali has described, does it seem appropriate to try to reduce our force posture and presence in Europe at this time? Congressman, thank you for the question and and I would just reiterate that we're in the process of a global posture review and no decisions have been made in any theater.
▶ 1:34:11What I will say as well is that, you know, of course, as part of this global force posture review, we are taking into account competing requirements as you highlighted correctly um the threats not only posed by by Russia in the Yukcom AO but also by China um in the Pacific and then certainly concerns um in our own Southcom AO on homeland defense and and Northcom as well. We all want this war to end, but it must end on Ukraine's terms.
▶ 1:34:38Um, members of the administration, including the Secretary of Defense, have suggested Ukraine should give up hope of reclaiming all territory seized by Russia. How can that be achieved when this president continues to play neutral facilitator, but not really? Because he keeps praising Russia. He keeps putting down Ukraine. He keeps aligning himself with Russia. Even the tariffs that we're dealing with don't include Russia.
▶ 1:35:09How can we trust this president? Thank you for the question, Congressman. Um I'll I'll address the first part of the question. I would direct on the the economic piece. I would direct um those questions to the White House and um and to state and and commerce for the specifics on that because I don't I don't want to speak for um um them on the on the tariff implications particularly.
▶ 1:35:28But on on DoD lanes in particular, right, our our lane, our goal is to bring is to help support the president and his efforts to bring both sides to the table, keep them at the table, and reach a lasting peace. Um that requires work on both sides of the scale, both with Ukraine and Russia. And it requires balance, as you point out, and that's the efforts that we're working toward right now. and the Department of Defense is poised to support um both of those efforts including um you know continuing to support Ukraine where it will affect those negotiations as well.
▶ 1:36:00Miss Thompson um you keep providing answers that are just canned and don't really answer many of the questions that have been asked by our colleagues today. So quite frankly, I'm just not going to waste my time. I wish I was as lucky as you when I was starting in my career.
▶ 1:36:20Uh with not as much experience to be elevated to such a significant post where you are now performing the duties of the assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, office of the secretary of defense. I wish I were so lucky. Mr. Chair, I yield back. Gentleman yields back here. And I recognize a gentleman from Texas, Mr. Latril. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:36:49General Cavolei, 38 years. Are you moving on to another post or are you they putting you out to graze? Um, I I I am I'm retiring, sir. Thank Well, I'm going to give you You're never going to remember what I'm about to say to you, but one day you're going to look up and you're going to say, "I remember somebody saying something to me one time." After after 38 years of service, you've been wearing that armor for a very long time. All right?
▶ 1:37:19And when you step away from this post and you're introduced outside these walls to the civilian world once again, there is a black hole, a deep, dark black hole that you haven't seen since you were in since you started your service. Okay? and I've read your portfolio and you're one of the most impressive individuals I've I've ever had a chance to sit in front of. But this thing is very real.
▶ 1:37:50And when and if this happens to you, because the window of opportunity is about five years. I've been out for 10 years and I think I was in it for about five years. And I've talked to my veteran brothers and sisters and they all have the same problems because once you start your next journey, nobody's going to show up on time. Nobody's going to complete their work like they're supposed to. Nobody's going to answer you like you think they should. It's just going to be different.
▶ 1:38:17And you're going to look up and you're going to realize you're the anomaly. And that's okay. Don't ever hesitate to reach out to your brothers and sisters that you served with and just have those conversations because what you've done is exceptional. And when you turn the page for the next chapter of your life, you will be starting over and that will be very challenging.
▶ 1:38:41But as a leader, as someone that has gone through so much, um the next chapter is just one step forward till the day the good Lord calls you home. Okay? And this may or may not make sense to you. I can assure you if you're talking to some whatever you do, don't run for politics. Okay? Just don't ever think about running for Congress or don't stay away from this place. Okay? I promise you if you do I just hear me out on this one.
▶ 1:39:09Um I I wanted to say that to you and thank you for I mean I don't know if they're going to give you a word for 38 years. I I consider you like an overachiever. Um but good good luck, fair wins and following season. My questions are for a classified setting, sir. Thank you. Gentleman yields back. Uh chair and I recognize gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Kitting. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As Goldstar family member myself, I associate myself with uh the remarks of the chair, the ranking member and particularly Mr.
▶ 1:39:35Wilson who mentioned by name those soldiers that were lost from represent our country well as well as their homes of Illinois, California, Guam and Michigan. General Cavali, in your experience, uh, if there are four servicemen missing under those circumstances, wouldn't the commander-in-chief be notified within 24 Um, you know, sir, I I don't want to sound evasive in any way, but but I I don't know.
▶ 1:40:04We we we report echelon to echelon, and my job is to So, that would be reported up from you certainly and from Certainly. It's reported through staff channels and and typically yeah I just found it remarkable that over 24 hours later the president of the United States when questioned didn't know anything about this I wonder about the communication at least at your level it it went up the ladder so it's good to know that and it's good to know too I saw those films of from Lithuania uh of the people in the streets even outside
▶ 1:40:34the cathedral uh little boys crying uh and I believe there were reports too I don't know you were there wasn't president of Lithuania there too. He was present for the uh for the procession uh for the dignified transfer. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. You know, you should you said we should step up and match I mean the European allies, they should step up and match our example match what we're doing.
▶ 1:41:00Was our president did he partake in any of those Congressman, thank you for the question. Uh I unfortunately can't comment on that because I don't speak for the White House. No. No. But people know you do you read the newspapers? Do you listen to commentary? Where was the president during the services? I'm not aware of the president. Really? Someone in the defense department where the secretary of defense was supposedly tasked for that job.
▶ 1:41:27The president flew over that on his way to a Saudi golf tournament at his one of his golf courses. You didn't know that, sir? I only knew. You didn't know that, sir? I only knew that the secretary of defense had planned to attend and that um you know we he well I guess we're really siloing information then uh if you weren't aware of that General Kavola you mentioned about the importance and I couldn't agree more and it's more important now if we don't understand it in Ukraine we'll never understand it uh of the deep relationship we that we have with our European allies in particular and and you
▶ 1:41:57know there was a lot of talk uh with the recent Houthi attack uh but wasn't it true that in prior attacks that the UK K and other allies participated in uh attacks uh against the Houthis as well. Uh so there was alliances there. We were working with allies in prior attacks. Um I I believe so congressman.
▶ 1:42:22I'd have to defer to General Carella on that for the exact details, but but I am aware that that there was a UK in particular fighters were there. Yeah, I can't give you numbers of the exact country. No, but they they were there helping us, showing that deep relationship and uh I can only question and the deep relationship with the signal chat breach of intelligence that occurred. Here's you know this deep relationship from Steven Miller who was on that chat.
▶ 1:42:52Whyever he was there I have no idea but he was there and he said we need to extract some economic gain for doing this. Vice President Vance said, "I just hate bailing out the Europeans again." Miss Thompson, your boss, Secretary Hexus, said, "I fully share your loathing of European freeloading. It's pathetic." Do you think that speaks to a deep relationship, Miss Thompson?
▶ 1:43:21Congressman, thank you for the question. I think this sentiment that you're describing speaks to a frustration that the American people hold for the deficit as President Trump. In fact, you used the word freeloading in your testimony this morning. I said free rider just Oh, free riders. I'm sorry. Thank you for correcting me. You're right.
▶ 1:43:39Uh so even though General Kavoli said that there's been a 40% increase just in the last few years uh and and it's in pace to meet their requirements in Europe but free riding that's your term is that correct that you use this morning? Yes. and the description from that. No, I'm speaking for your testimony now.
▶ 1:43:59Do you think free riding of our allies, do you think that that over 1,000 international allies, including European allies, were killed in the US-led war on terrorism in 9/11, the only time article 5 has been utilized. So the deaths of over a thousand service men and women in our from our allies, that's free riding to you. That's free riding.
▶ 1:44:26Congressman, my remarks and and certainly uh those echoed by the administration are speaking in the context of of the NATO problem set and the UK. No, this was NATO allies fired. Chair and I recognizes a gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Maguire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to start by also offering my condolences and prayers to the four soldiers lost in Lithuania.
▶ 1:44:46That would be Staff Sergeant Dunes, uh, Staff Sergeant Franco, uh, PFC Tatano, and Sergeant Kudson. And I'd also like to say thank you to our witnesses for being here today. We really appreciate it. You know, and I really I very much want to thank and and appreciate the Trump administration, President Trump, Secretary Hegsth and Miss Thompson. You're doing a wonderful job today.
▶ 1:45:13You know, your efforts to keep our American people safe at home and abroad. We very much appreciate what you're doing and everyone knows we wouldn't have a country without a military. So, General Cavali, you're I couldn't say it better than my Navy brother Latrrell is we really appreciate your service, but your efforts uh Miss Thompson are working. Morale is up. I've been to the southern border. I've visited military bases. Recruitment is up. We are getting these divisive ideologies.
▶ 1:45:41You know, in the military and as a veteran, if somebody saved your life on the battlefield, you wouldn't care if they were pink or blue, male or female, Democrat, Republican, independent, we're all on the same team. And for special operations forces, we're always behind enemy lines. We're always outnumbered. And we always win because we don't win, we don't come home. And so these divisive ideologies that have plagued our military, I am so glad that we're focusing more on the job and that is making our military lethal.
▶ 1:46:12Again, I very much uh agree with President Trump and the chairman and that is it is time to end hostilities in Europe with Ukraine and Russia. I very much agree with the chairman as well. I'd like to see all members of NATO do 5%. I know that's a that's a big ask, but u you know, we have to have peace through strength. And I'm going to start with uh Miss Thompson and General Kavali. I have a few questions. Um I'd like to get your yes or no response.
▶ 1:46:41Since President Trump assumed office in January of this year, have our European allies and partners increased their defense spending or shown actionable plans to do so? Uh yes. Yes. Thank you. Um General Cavali, can you please provide some examples of how they've done that? Spain today announced that they're going up to 2.3% of of GDP.
▶ 1:47:05That's a big lift in Spain where uh defense spending um was not very favored for a long time and where there was a for a very long time a very weak coalition government. That's just today's example. Uh uh Congressman, we we could go on and on. Uh the the Denmark has recently announced plans to uh uh go to 3.2% of GDP um uh and to spend two additional billion euros on Arctic security.
▶ 1:47:33Those are just two examples in the past couple of couple of days weeks. Thank you. Um would the strides these allies are making be sufficient enough to meet the implementation requirements of their regional plans under NATO? Not yet. They will be.
▶ 1:47:46They um so there's a long uh uh process called the NATO defense planning process congressman that's where we take the forces the force structure requirement of the plans and assign it out to nations to build for um that's been concluded all nations have accepted all their capabilities targets now it's time to build and this is where we come to the question of industrial capacity certainly and I remembered you guys mentioned that capacity we've got to have something to buy and that's something that this committee committee and our
▶ 1:48:16chairman fully supports and we've had many discussions on that. Let's see. Um General Kavoli some we've already touched on this but if you could clarify um some of our allies on NATO's eastern flank have demonstrated their commitment to President Trump's call to increase their GDP spending on defense and improve capabilities including Poland and the Baltic states. Poland itself has increased its interest in American defense products.
▶ 1:48:40Do you believe the current FMS system in the Pentagon operates sufficiently enough to ensure that US defense equipment reaches foreign buyers on time? No, sir. Um, we have a lot of work to do in that regard. Thanks. Uh, General Kaboli, one last thing. Last week, Defense News published an article highlighting President Putin's announcement of the new PERM nuclear submarine of the Yasanm class. The article also highlighted some of the issues uh being faced by the Russian industrial base.
▶ 1:49:09not unlike our own. Joe Kavoli, can you provide a brief overview of the current state of the Russian undersea capability in your area of responsibility? Could I do that in close session, please? Sure. Thanks. And then if you could is maybe close session as well, but how's the United States compared to Russia in terms of its undersea capabilities? I am very confident in the United States Navy, sir. But we can go into details in in close session. I appreciate your uh testimony today and I yield back. Uh gentleman yields back.
▶ 1:49:38chair and I recognize gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Hulahan. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here today. Uh, and Miss Thompson, I wanted to start with you. Uh, we are here to talk about the European theater. We're here to talk about our commitments to Europe and the NATO allies. Uh, I wanted to raise concerns about remarks that, uh, uh, we have recently experienced over the last three days in terms of the tariffs that are going to be le levied across the entire world.
▶ 1:50:07uh including of course many of our allies in uh Europe. Senator Rubio recently argued that these tariffs would not meaningfully affect European defense budgets or NATO's cohesion and he suggested that the tariffs would be justified without undermining readiness of our allies. I worry very much that based on your opening testimony asking the our NATO allies to spend more, build more, that tariffs cannot possibly not affect readiness.
▶ 1:50:36Can you please expound to with me on your perspective from the DoD on how might the imposition of significant tariffs impact our European allies and their ability to meet NATO defense spending requirements as levied by this administration? Thank you for the question, Congresswoman, and it's an important dynamic that you bring up, so I appreciate you highlighting it.
▶ 1:50:57what I would say um from the Department of Defense's purview and and lane because I don't want to speak for the broader implications of of tariffs uh on diplomatic relationships or their effects because that's more in commerce treasury lane but but what I would say from the department's perspective is what we want to make sure is that any levers we're pulling um don't impede our our objective as the secretary has stated in his first visit to NATO which is a strong transatlantic industrial base on both sides of the Atlantic that includes bolstering not only our own production our own our own uh defense industrial
▶ 1:51:27base but also Europeans investing in theirs and we want to ensure um that they're certainly able to do so in their comparative advantage. So I'm going to I'm going to stop because I don't think that you can differentiate between the defense department and this and uh commerce in this sense. This is absolutely the industrial base. The defense industrial base is directly res uh connected to commerce and our commerce is directly connected to that of our allies and our our friends.
▶ 1:51:55And I think that we can't possibly believe that our actions on the on the national level to impose very very high tariffs and levies upon our allies could not affect their readiness and their ability to produce and manufacture and even buy from the United States those those weapon systems amongst other things.
▶ 1:52:17Um, I'm really frustrated to be honest with your testimony which has consistently been evasive and consistently tried to say that it's not within your lane to comment on things. And I guess I went back to try to understand uh your position and your and your um your tenure. And I've got to be honest, you know, you it appears as though you've been in this job very short amount of time and it's it appears as though you've been here a very very short amount of time.
▶ 1:52:45And so I would ask the administration why why you're the person that they asked us to talk to about these issues because it just doesn't seem as though you have the the the knowledge to be able to answer the questions. Um I will uh echo my colleagues uh frustration that I don't want to waste my time on these questions. General Cavoi, I'm so so sorry about the soldiers that we lost in Lithuania.
▶ 1:53:11Uh I am very very sorry particularly uh for the for their soldiers themselves and their families, but I'm also particularly saddened that is the partner nation with Pennsylvania. And so I take it very very seriously that we um have an amazing alliance with with uh with the Lithuanians and worry very very much that our men and women, Pennians, will be in harm's way possibly if we don't find the way to peace and we don't find the way to uh to address Putin's
▶ 1:53:41aggression not just with Ukraine but his intents with the rest of of the European continent. I believe I also do want to thank you so much for your service uh sir and uh I really do hope that you have uh opportunities to enjoy the the remainder of of um whatever life brings you. I'm very very grateful to you. With that, I yield back. Chair, I recognize a gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Herrian. Mr. Chairman, thank you. And to both of our witnesses, thanks for your testimony today.
▶ 1:54:10and General Cavolei, I never thought I'd say this, but I absolutely echo the comments of my two Navy Seal colleagues here uh in in expressing well wishes for your retirement. Uh General Kavoli, I've got a couple questions for you today. One of the things that you testified about is that this really is an industrial war and that we're behind in industry. Is that correct? Um this is an industrial scale war, sir.
▶ 1:54:39It's using a lot of old-fashioned equipment that requires heavy industry. And when we look at our own ability, um, yeah, we we we need the ability to produce more weaponry more quickly. And would would you also agree that this is a technologically different conflict as well? Yeah, it is, sir. There's a very interesting mix of legacy equipment and high-tech.
▶ 1:55:03And it really seems that the side that's able to combine those two advantageously and then out adapt the other side's counter measures and counter countermeasures, that side gains the advantage for for an enduring period. Is it your understanding that 80% of the Russian soldiers who are being killed in the Ukrainian conflict are being killed by FPV drones? Yes, I have seen those figures, sir.
▶ 1:55:31I think it's probably pretty hard for us to make sure we're accurate on those given, you know, given our ability to be there and count and everything, but it's certainly well over half and and it's certainly a large number. And it's a number that has increased steadily over the course of the conflict. And I would say that these lowcost, high impact systems are fundamentally rewriting the rules of the battlefield. Would you agree with that statement?
▶ 1:55:56Yeah, the the equipment congressman that is softwaredefined where a greater part of its um of its capability is defined by its software. Those are super easy and super inexpensive to modify and adapt and so you can take a piece of hardware and by manipulating the software you can stay ahead of the of the enemy's counter measures. Um it's a remarkable thing we're witnessing on both sides.
▶ 1:56:21The Ukrainians have proven especially adept at putting engineers down at the lowest level, observing what the soldiers do with the equipment, making modifications, and putting it right back in the fight. It's it's a big advance. Thanks for that. And, you know, just generally, when I walk into this room, I don't walk into this room as a Republican. I hope my Democratic colleagues don't walk in here as Democrats. I know sometimes we all do, but I I walk in here as as an American.
▶ 1:56:48And I think however we feel about the Ukrainian conflict, particularly as a former special operator, that I think it would be unwise to not learn the lessons of this conflict. And one of the concerns that I have, particularly as we've talked about our defense industrial base being behind the difference between highost, exquisite capabilities and lowcost, ubiquitous capabilities and the capacity to actually build those capabilities.
▶ 1:57:17One of the concerns that I have given the fact that 80% of Russian soldiers are being killed by FPV drones is that we have little to non-existent capability in our country to produce these drones. Would you agree with that Um well we we do have some capability sir. I know a lot of people are working on it.
▶ 1:57:40I I think um as as it goes to the US military, I' I'd refer you respectfully to uh General George, the chief of staff of the army, who's working very hard to distribute um uh smaller drones at the lowest level and to proliferate them across formations.
▶ 1:58:01He's got a program that he calls transformation and contact where he uses brigades that are deployed either into the Pacific or into Europe to um accelerate his distribution and his deployment of these drones. I know that he needs some some changes in the way funding works. Um but but I'd leave it to him, sir, on that.
▶ 1:58:20And I I I think I'm aware of these, but I think we're talking about, you know, thousands quantity and and am I correct in saying Ukraine will produce approximately 4 million FPV drones this year? Yeah, that's right, sir. So, we are very far behind that level of production capability for something that is achieving decisive impacts on today's battlefield. Right. They are they are producing drones like most countries produce ammunition um in in massive quantities for expenditure.
▶ 1:58:48Should we be doing the same thing in the United States of America? I I believe we should be doing that and I believe we are increasingly going to be doing that. I just that it's not my responsibility to speak about those programmatic sir. Thank you, General Chairman. Thank the gentleman. Excellent line of questions. Uh gentle lady from California, Miss Jacobs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Miss Thompson, do you believe the European Union was formed to hurt America? I do not. Okay.
▶ 1:59:17I ask because the president publicly said yesterday that the European Union was formed in order to screw the United States and even floated the idea of using military force to take Greenland from Denmark, a NATO ally because we quote need it for national security. Those kinds of statements suggest a US stance uh that our European allies and institutions are adversaries or fair game for coercion. In your view, do such positions reflect a coherent US strategy toward Europe? Thank you for the question, Congressman.
▶ 1:59:46What I would say is as far as our approach uh to our allies and partners is one first and foremost of honesty. We want to be honest with our partners and we also want to be honest about the fact that they need to step up and that's what I was emphasizing in my testimony um when I I referenced the administration's priority to bring European allies to five European and Canadian allies within NATO to 5% and we've already seen great strides in that process and then also have our European allies lead out um particularly on the future of security assistance uh to Ukraine.
▶ 2:00:13And I would also underscore uh that that you know Denmark and our our bilateral relationship with Denmark is is certainly a part of that equation and and we want to have a robust uh security relationship there particularly for the reasons that you identify as far as Greenland being critical to homeland defense and we would re we would share that view. Okay, great. Well, um it's good to know that our approach is about honesty. I I I guess I'm glad the president publicly honestly said what he thinks about our European allies.
▶ 2:00:39Um, Miss Thompson, are you aware that Europe pays for 84% of NATO's infrastructure at US bases and that Poland is spending over $300 million annually to support US directly? I am certainly aware of Europe's contributions to to NATO for at least on the defense side. I know there's different streams of funding for defense contributions or for NATO contributions on the state side as well. Okay. And so how do you square that with calling them free riders?
▶ 2:01:06So I think the comment the commentary on that I made and then certainly that the administration has made really stems from this chronic underspending of being under the 2% threshold. The the Wales pledge in 2014 was made in a security environment that was arguably a lot more secure than the security environment that we face today certainly from US the adversaries that the US is facing.
▶ 2:01:25And I think from that perspective, there's rightly placed frustration in wanting our European allies to not only meet the spending commitment that they made in in 2014, but also live up to to the overarching Article 3 pledge of of contributing to the collective security of the alliance, which includes defense spending.
▶ 2:01:42And I would also argue that the security environment that we face today um as as bipartisan officials have recognized across administrations, 2% as a threshold for spending is no longer sufficient to meet the demands of the security environment, which is exactly why um President Trump has set the target he's set. And it's really really encouraging, I have to say, for for many of our allies to now be over the 2% threshold. We want to see those timelines get pulled to the left even further um and to see them make further progress.
▶ 2:02:09And I would also just take the opportunity to highlight the the eastern allies who who are on track to meet 5% um very very soon. Thank you. And General Kavoli, from a military standpoint, what is the impact on our operations and partnerships when our allies hear American leaders suggest that the EU was formed to screw us or to entertain ideas of invading an allies territory or for calling them free riders when they are contributing a lot to supporting our troops?
▶ 2:02:38How does this affect trust and cohesion among our allies that we depend on for our collective security? Ma'am, thanks for the question. Clearly, it strays well well out of my lane. Um, but I I talked to all of the chiefs of defense in in uh Europe all the time and our militarytoilitary relationships uh remain quite strong and and and are very solid. Ma'am, have President Trump's comments come up in any of your conversations with other uh military leaders? Uh, rarely.
▶ 2:03:07But have they in the context of Europe uh in this uh being formed to screw them or what the president is trying to do uh in Greenland? Ma'am, it's rare enough that I'm I'm I'm searching to to to to be sure to give you a complete and honest answer. I I can't remember an an instance of that off the top of my head. Um, you know, military guys, we we really try to stay carefully to the military construct and to the military lane.
▶ 2:03:38Um, because because it's not our job in any of the nations in NATO. Um, so so I can't think of an example off the top of my head. If I do think of one, I'll be sure to tell you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank the gentle lady chair and I recognize a gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Msmer. Thank you, Chairman.
▶ 2:03:57Uh, General Cavoli, uh, in dealing with US missile defense and President Trump's Golden Dome executive order, what may not be known is that Europe already has a US provided Golden Dome in the form of the Aegis ashore sites in Russia or in Romania, Romania and Poland. These missile defense systems have performed well in the Middle East, but the Aegis air defense functionality in Europe is not activated due to regional political concerns. giving the willingness of Russia to deploy novel hypersonic weapons in Ukraine.
▶ 2:04:25Is is it your best military advice that that we activate these air defense capabilities to counter that threat? Sir, I have as the Supreme Allied Commander made that recommendation to the North Atlantic Council. Thank you. Um, also can you explain how the missile defense architecture that we've invested in Europe could protect the US homeland? Oh, sure.
▶ 2:04:46some some of the radars involved uh provide some of the very first warnings um and uh and there's quite a bit more but I think I'd be more comfortable discussing it in a close close session sir. Fair enough. Okay. Uh given the US increase of drone threats uh to critical infrastructure military bases in Europe, how is uh EUCOM planning to integrate directed energy technologies in in into its counter drone defense?
▶ 2:05:12First of all, we're eager to do that, Congressman, because um a lot of the other kinetic solutions uh are pretty problematic to use, you know, in congested areas and bases that are in congested areas. Um we we're planning to use a layered defense and a full suite of different capabilities. Some of them electromagnetic interference, some of them directed energy, as you said, some of them just kinetic projectiles.
▶ 2:05:36Um uh it's important to remember that we've got to do that in close connection to civil authorities from the host nation. Um and each nation has different regulations for spectrum management um for the release of weapons and things like that. So we work through this um daily. It's a pretty big initiative. Would that be a more coste effective counter measure to to uh some of the million-dollar missiles that we use to shoot de? Yes. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:06:04I mean, I I think everybody's looking for that new way to shoot down aerial objects that doesn't require us to launch multi-million dollar missiles at a thousand drone type of thing. Very good. Um, in my district in southwest Indiana, General Cavolei, the there army ammunition activity mission where nearly 25% of the DoD's conventional munitions are stored.
▶ 2:06:27A large amount of the equipment and munitions stored there has been withdrawn via the presidential draw draw down authority and sent to Ukraine. How important is it from a combat commander perspective that we modernize and restock these munition storage facilities? Our stockage levels are extremely important to a combat commander sir. Um and to the extent that they're depleted by operations or by donations to another country such as Ukraine um they need to be replenished. I there is a program to do that.
▶ 2:06:56well well funded previously by the Congress and uh it's an important thing for us to for us to consider. Okay. Thank you. Uh also Jenner Cavelli spectrum is a valuable finite resource that's used by the DoD. There are some in Congress who want to require the DoD to vacate its spectrum allocations. Could you speak to what the impact would be on on Yukon if the DoD was forced to vacate the spectrum allocations and what would be the effects on missile defense? Uh yes sir.
▶ 2:07:25Um, so I think most of the discussion is around the Sband and um, we use that. Um, I could go in in a little bit more detail in classified session, although I'm, you know, not exactly an electrical engineer, but I but I could talk to you more about it in classified session. It would affect missile defense and air defense. That would that would affect the potential for defending defending our country in Europe and and the continental US as well. Okay, that's right. Yeah.
▶ 2:07:54Um, very good. I'll yield back the rest of my time. Thank you. Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crow. Thank you, chairman, and thank you both of you for being in here today. I wanted to join my colleagues in expressing deep sympathies for the families of those service members who we lost in Lithuania. And General Kavi, thank you for responding very rapidly and working with our allies to make sure that we had recovery operations going.
▶ 2:08:23And I also want to join my colleagues in thanking you for your incredible service during your tenure. You met challenges throughout Europe that we haven't seen since World War II. You did so uh with extreme competence um diligence uh and discipline and um that was seen by many folks on the hill as well as our allies and we are very grateful for your leadership.
▶ 2:08:44Turning to Ukraine, um in the initial stages of the war, um the Ukrainians were able to destroy a very large percentage of the conventional land forces of Russia. Is that is that Yes, sir. Over half by by most estimations, right? You would have to think of it as a as a rolling figure because they were growing at the same time as they were losing. But yeah, those are those are about the kind of numbers we're looking at about almost 4,000 tanks.
▶ 2:09:14Russian tanks destroyed by Ukraine in this country. But but since that time, Russia has uh with surprising speed been able to recapitalize and rebuild both its industrial base but also its conventional forces and replace a lot of that equipment and personnel. Is that accurate? Absolutely. And how would you characterize China's involvement in that recapitalization, both the industrial component as well as the the military component? Um, we could talk a lot more about this in closed session, sir, and and perhaps we'll have the opportunity to.
▶ 2:09:44Um, but there has been contributions. Some of them have been indirect um uh by uh uh absorbing much of Russian sanctioned oil exports and gas exports. They have been able to uh continue to provide funds that have enabled Russia to continue to build their military. Some have been more direct.
▶ 2:10:04Some have been through commercial ventures that may or may not be supported um by the Chinese Communist Party and and beyond that I think I'd be safest to talk to you about it in close session. Sir, so uh and we'll convene in close session, but both directly and indirectly, economically and and to some degree militarily, China has chosen sides here. Oh, certainly. Um you know, I think there's there there's an important side note.
▶ 2:10:29uh congressman some sometimes I I've been asked well they're only giving them moral support and and I typically respond but that's that's the most pernicious type of support but but it's more than moral support would you say and it is yes okay um so they they have they have determined that it's in their interest to support Russia in this it would appear so okay Miss Thompson um this administration has taken a hard line on China in
▶ 2:10:59a number of uh big ways uh trying to reestablish and and balance that relationship. Um would you agree that China has chosen sides in the Russia Ukraine conflict? Thank you for the question, Congressman. Um yes, with the the the caveat right that you highlighted which I think is actually really really important and that it aligns with their interests. um in so far as uh perpetuating this conflict or or other conflict aligns with their interests.
▶ 2:11:26I think that's where we will see the adversary alignment and that's why it's so important from the context of this administration right to get the the work streams correct so that the US can focus on deterrence in the Indoacific avoiding conflict there while our European allies really step up. The Chinese have determined it's in their interest to support Russia both directly and indirectly. I would echo General Kavali's comments. It appears so. Okay.
▶ 2:11:49So given given that, would you agree that it's in our interest to support Ukraine if China has determined it's in their interest to support Russia? I would I would perhaps uh take it a step further, Congressman, depending on how you look at it, which is I think that's the impetus for for trying to get to peace in Ukraine so that we don't continue to to burgeon that relationship or or continue to allow the interests to overlap particularly given the situation.
▶ 2:12:14And I know I don't speak for Indopaccom, but particularly given what you're not willing to say though it's in our interest to ensure Ukraine is successful in this conflict. From my from our vantage point within the administration, I think that's that's why the prioritization imperative is placed on peace.
▶ 2:12:27But the lack of ability to say that it's America's interest for Ukraine to prevail in this continues to be staggering to me because our adversaries, our competitors have been very clear about the sides that they have chosen here and who they think is in their best interest to prevail militarily. Uh and yet we are unwilling to do that. And there's a lot of talk about peace through strength. But if you're not willing to actually say the thing, if you're not willing to actually call it out and take sides, I don't see how we can be strong in that regard.
▶ 2:12:57So I will continue to urge along with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle that the administration is very clear in its rhetoric about who we will support here. I yield back. Gentlemen yields back. Chair and I recognizes another Colorado, Mr. Crank. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. General Kavoli, thank you for being here.
▶ 2:13:16Uh, most Americans probably aren't aware that some of the first shots in the Russian invasion of Ukraine were in space when Russia knocked out a satellite network providing communication support to Ukraine. And according to a recent report, Russia is fielding new anti-satellite weapons, expanding onorbit counterpace capabilities, and training uh in military space elements to combat the United States.
▶ 2:13:44According to General Whiting, commander of US Space Command, quote, "Winning the space fight is foundational to defending the nation." Can you provide an update of the role that onorbit warfare is playing in your theater? Sure, Congressman. Um, with the caveat that I think, as you know, it's really hard to talk about space operations and capabilities in open session.
▶ 2:14:14So if you'd like to talk about a little bit more in close session, we could. I would also refer you to General Whiting and to General Salsman who are genuine experts in this question. I'm a customer. I'm a consumer of their efforts. Yes. Uh our space capabilities are absolutely essential to the way we do operations. Our adversaries space capabilities are absolutely essential to the way they do operations and they understand how important space is to us. So it is very much a contested environment.
▶ 2:14:43a contested capability and uh I'd be delighted to talk more about it in a close session. Sir, uh in your opinion, are Russia and China's space-based capability stronger, weaker, or the same compared to the start of the war in Ukraine? Uh they grow they they grow constantly. They they are both working very hard to improve their capabilities and to expand their capacity and they have been doing that wi with the war in Ukraine and I imagine they would have without the war in Ukraine as well.
▶ 2:15:14Okay. And then finally, in your testimony, you highlighted how Yukon partners with Cyber Command to quote deter advanced persistent threats unquote. Can you describe where those threats come from and what they're targeting? Yeah, there are non-governmental threats, sir, right? Criminal activity, ransomware, and things like that. Um, that have national security implications, and so they matter to us. We help our allies with the defending against those.
▶ 2:15:42There are also stra state-based threats and uh each one of our main adversaries, that group of four that I named in my opening statement, each one of those is quite active in the cyber sphere. How can Congress uh help strengthen your hand in those fights? Sir, by supporting um uh US Cyber Command um all of their subordinate organizations have relationships with the combatant commands. 16th US Air Force is my cyber component for Yukon.
▶ 2:16:12Uh that makes a big difference when you support cyber command. Also, when you support the National Security Agency because uh that work is so closely tied to cyber work. Thank you. Uh I'd like to thank both of our witnesses uh for coming today, but for your uh for your service to our country and for all that you do to keep us safe. Thank you. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen yields. Chair now recognizes Mr. Ryan from New York. Uh thank you, Mr. Mr. Chair, thank you both for being here.
▶ 2:16:39General Kavoli, I want to add to the well-deserved praise and recognition. Um, couldn't imagine a more critical time for your leadership and could not imagine a better leader and uh, the whole country is thankful to you and I think uh, just want to on behalf of my uh, constituents in particular, thank you.
▶ 2:16:57um your leadership not only as Yukcom commander but as sakur has been indispensable and as I'm sure everyone in this room knows that position has a deep historical significance starting with uh general and and ultimately President Eisenhower as our first Supreme Allied commander in a way that is truly staggering to all of us including uh you know the the chair has weighed in on this as at the rank member and many
▶ 2:17:27others. The the plan that was uh floated in March to restructure combatant commands and give up US command uh of that role I think would be a massive step backwards. You've talked a little bit about in front of the Senate last week u one of my colleagues from the other side of the aisle Mr. Bacon has said quote it signals a weakening commitment to NATO and I think it's wrong.
▶ 2:17:49Um, former sakur Admiral Stvita said for the United States to give up the role of supreme allied commander of NATO would be seen in Europe as a significant signal of walking away from the alliance. Can you speak a little bit about given your unique view into that role? How would Russia and Putin specifically view us backing away from that role? Um, thanks Congressman. Uh, first of all, thanks for pointing out the role uh, General Eisenhower had as the first sackier. you might imagine.
▶ 2:18:19Um, his likeness, his photographs, busts of him are all over the headquarters. There's one sitting behind my desk that looks over my shoulder checking my homework every day. So, if you want to feel a little bit of pressure ever, just take a job that Ike had. Big shoes to fill in need. Um, yeah, everybody relies on on on Sakir. Uh, our allies want American leadership.
▶ 2:18:46our allies um like to have an American as sack here. From our perspective, we gain quite a bit of influence from it, right? I I have a very loud voice inside Europe as a result of my position. Um and I think those are to our advantage. Um of course, what the United States decides to do is always going to be a policy matter, and there are other considerations that that our civilian leaders will take into consideration as they as they think about these things. Um, what do the Russians see?
▶ 2:19:16You know, I I think that I I think that of all the nations in the alliance, the Russians have the most respect for the strength of the US military, um, they respect all the militaries and especially the collective military, but we are the military that stands out as as something for them to worry about. And so an officer who has the ability to command US forces probably uh probably is is a bigger problem for them than not.
▶ 2:19:46I can only imagine truly what General and former President Eisenhower would think about us even considering walking away from that position. I think it's embarrassing and pathetic. Which leads me to my follow-up question for you, Miss Thompson. um given your opening uh albeit very short and heavy on buzzwords uh posture statement where you use the term factory reset which I have no idea what that means in the context of something so critical and nuanced as what we're talking about but given that I wanted to
▶ 2:20:17ask you what you mean by that and uh in January of this year actually January 2025 Senator Mike Lee called explicitly for the United States to leave NATO is that correct Again, I I represent Would you know since you were his national security adviser up through January? I left on January 20th, 2025. So, if it was after that, that was not something that I would have seen. Well, do you think we should leave NATO then? Again, I represent the Department of Defense.
▶ 2:20:46I can only speak on behalf of the Department of Defense and Secretary Hexa has been very clear. We are not stepping away from So, what does he mean then on behalf of the Department of Defense by factory reset? Is it us walking away from the leadership of NATO and you heard some of the consequences of that? Is it us abandoning NATO? At a minimum, if we're going to make such a major change, I know you're doing your posture review, but I think we owe the American people a transparency around something that would be so impactful to our security.
▶ 2:21:13So, first and foremost on the sackear question, if the question is, is the department considering that change? My definitive answer is no. Second part on factory reset. The secretary in his remarks to to the North Atlantic Council and to the Ukraine Defense Contract Group was very clear that by factory reset what we mean is returning the focus of the alliance to defense and deterrence of Europe to the core mission and and to to be frank to to Eisenhower's original mission set and call for the alliance which is conventional defense and and deterrence in Europe.
▶ 2:21:41Um certainly that's what we are expecting of our our European allies with the the US as the nuclear strategic deterrent backs stop as well. Um but factory reset really does mean returning to the core fundamental mission of the alliance which is defense and deterrence of gentleman's times expired. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Arizona Mr. Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you to our panel for coming today. The conflict in Ukraine is the convergence of tensions not only with Russia but also Iran, North Korea and and China as well.
▶ 2:22:11Now we have an America first mandate to first protect the homeland and to use the strength to deter war. That's a mission that the Biden administration failed to achieve. Now, we are divided across the Asian, European, and Middle Eastern theaters, and we face tough choices. There simply aren't enough brave young men and women, sons and daughters, to be everywhere all at once. Now, America first doesn't mean America alone. And yet, a continent divided by Chinese and Russian economic penetration cannot stand.
▶ 2:22:39Now, we must seize the chance to realign our NATO commitments, defense manufacturing, and our trade policies to find new ways to make Europe's economy a denied environment for those plotting harm against America and its allies. Now, my first question is to you, Secretary Thompson. Now, we're directing immense resources to Onshore Defi Defense Industrial Base here and um as you know, all the semiconductor industry as well that President Trump has really advocated in his first term also u in his second term already.
▶ 2:23:06And what I'm concerned about right now is at the same time, China threatens our momentum by trying to purchase some of the most advanced machines that are coming out of the Netherlands that are capable of producing these chips. Now, how does Chinese infiltration of European supply chains threaten our security here at home?
▶ 2:23:22Congressman, it's it's a great question and and I think you bring up a very important dynamic and this is something that we do continue to encourage our all our European allies to focus on which is the economic security considerations particularly um as we look to strengthen the transatlantic industrial base on both sides of the Atlantic. This is a major consideration that would affect our ability to co-produce, co-develop, etc.
▶ 2:23:42with our European allies and we want to be able to do that, but those conditions certainly on on the the front on on China do impact our ability to do that and so it's a consideration that we will continue to raise with them and encourage them to to address so that so that we can develop together. Sure. But is it just conversations right now? That's all I can report on at this time.
▶ 2:24:02Um, I I'm sure my my colleagues in acquisition and sustainment would have more to say on the the tangible operational side because they deal with the the technical exchanges and so I would defer um respectfully to to them and their leadership and their expertise on that. Very good. I have full confidence in the Trump administration to uh protect our key defense industrial base as well as our chip manufacturing that feeds so much into it. Um, and General, thank you for your lifelong service and I know it's going to continue afterwards. um especially when you become a veteran.
▶ 2:24:33Uh but I appreciate all of what you've done to our country. And my question to you is regarding Europe, is Europe doing enough to control or to help the situation contain what's going on with the Houthis in Yemen? Uh so the EU has a mission called a Speedus which um has ships in the Gulf uh to protect commercial shipping. Sir, um obviously um the United States has felt the need to do the same alongside it.
▶ 2:25:03Uh together it's it's hard for me to say if it's enough. Uh I I'd refer to General Carrilla um who follows that much more closely. Sure. But u we also know that the Russians have been helping the Houthis as well. Is that correct? Um I'd like to answer that in close session, please, sir. No worries. And um how much of the Iranian, Houthi, and Chinese threats to Europe, how much can that affect the United States?
▶ 2:25:34Um I I guess indirectly it massively um probably probably it we don't have that much shipping I don't think that comes through the Suez. Um however, our warships transit that all the time. So, it would affect our ability to conduct military operations for sure. I'm not sure. I'm not an economist. I I couldn't comment on how big the impact would be on us economically or something. Thank you, chairman. I yield back. Gentlemen, yields back.
▶ 2:26:03Chair and I recognize gentle lady from New Jersey, Miss Cheryl. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon. And I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. Uh, General Kavali, you said in your opening statement that Russia is in the process of significantly rebuilding its military by recruiting more soldiers, building more vehicles, and creating more munitions than we've seen before.
▶ 2:26:24So, if the war in Ukraine were to end today, do you believe that the Russian military would continue to represent a significant threat to the US, Ukraine, and our European allies in the coming years? Yes, ma'am. it would take them a little bit of time to reorient their conventional force and reposition it um but not that much time um and and then they could pose a conventional threat.
▶ 2:26:48Very important for me to add, however, that they have never stopped having their strategic capabilities, their um nuclear submarines, their long range aviation, uh their cyber, their space, all of that is is alive and well and largely unaffected by the war in Thank you.
▶ 2:27:08And if Russia was able to retain and control significant portions of Ukrainian territory once the war ends, do you believe Russia would consider that a victory and consider launching a similar invasion of Ukraine or another European country in the It's hard for me to predict the future, Bam, but I think it's very safe for all of us to say that wouldn't prevent them from doing it in the future. It would certainly leave the door open for them. Um, yeah.
▶ 2:27:38Thank you. And as the Trump administration chooses to abandon Ukraine and let Russia rebuild its military, they're also considering cutting the US military presence in Europe. So, General Cavali, how would cutting US forces from Yukon impact your ability to respond to a crisis or potential conflict with Russia? Ma'am, it would reduce it would increase the amount of time it took to respond. It depends of course on what forces were hypothetically to be removed.
▶ 2:28:09It depends on what kind of uh action were required to counter Russia. Um but clearly moving things uh to the other side of the Atlantic increases the time space uh challenge. Other than that I don't want to be evasive but it it's really a very situation dependent question.
▶ 2:28:26And would removing, I guess to be more clear, our brigade combat team from Poland or having our forces stationed in Germany or Italy slow your response to a Russian assault on our Eastern European Yes, I've consistently testified to that. Thank you.
▶ 2:28:45Um so as we move forward, can you just talk a little bit too as as you mentioned about what you think the key um aspects are of Russian of Russia's So in in uh the broadest sense, ma'am, that provide the biggest threat to the United States. Yeah, their nuclear arsenal. What about their cyber capabilities? Um I I believe their nuclear arsenal poses a bigger threat.
▶ 2:29:14their cyber capabilities uh are more likely to be used but in most cases wouldn't have the catastrophic effect that the nuclear threat would have. Um um but of course that again depends on what nuclear weapons we're talking about what cyber attacks um but in general I would say the the the nuclear capabilities and then I would say the spite space and cyber sort of on the level but conventionally um their strategic um advantage continues to be
▶ 2:29:44mass that they can put in direct proximity to NATO forces that challenges us to respond in time across the space is required. So um basically they can put a force into place um that would cause us to have to react in a timely fashion. And that time space problem is really the essence of conventional deterrence on the continent.
▶ 2:30:11And given the recent conflict in Ukraine, what has been um kind of what what will be the hardest for Russia to rebuild in the aftermath of that? I'd like to answer that in close session um because it goes into some technical stuff. What what I can say is I don't think it's that hard to rebuild their mass. Um they have manpower available.
▶ 2:30:38They demonstrate the uh willingness to conscript it and um it doesn't take that long to reconstitute the size of their old force or even to increase it. Um they still have equipment in storage. um that they could pull out and and renovate and they have increased their ability to produce legacy hardware, tanks and armored personnel carriers and things like that. Um so there are some things that are easy. The things that are hard it would be better to answer in close session.
▶ 2:31:07Ma'am, thank you and I yield back. Chairman, I'm recognized as a gentleman from Guam, Mr. Mlin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And as my colleagues did, I also would like to uh start in recognizing the four soldiers that were lost on March 25th in Lithuania. Mentioning their name. Staff Sergeant Troy Nook Collins of Battle Creek, Michigan. Staff Sergeant Jose Dwanis Juliet, Illinois. Staff Sergeant Edin Franco of Glendel, California.
▶ 2:31:38And Private First Class Dante Titano, a son of Guam. These brave men were lost too soon in a tragic accident and our hearts and thoughts and prayers go out to their families and loved ones during this challenging time.
▶ 2:31:52And I ask for my colleagues in the audience to please have a moment of silence. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I for my first question. Uh, General Kvoli, last year we had a discussion.
▶ 2:32:16I thank you for that and I truly appreciate sir your service and I understand what you're going through with the Yukcom and and you're doing a fantastic job, sir. And previously we talked about how the US territories in the Pacific uh will seek their protection with article five and and but that's not the case and would not but however article 4 uh gives the authority for uh consultation and non-obligated support and just want to know on your uh what the situation
▶ 2:32:46now we have with Yukon situation our strategic uh situation are are our allies sir still willing uh to support us in the Pacific. And with your experience through this situation, how can we better coordinate with your partners on security cooperation and international organizations and regional security in Pacific and Asia? General. Thanks, Congressman. First, thanks for your kind words about about our servicemen.
▶ 2:33:16Um, yes, so many of our European allies have direct security interests in the Indo-Pacific. Um uh France has possessions there, the UK. Um so they have direct interest and they do have military presences abroad there to to to help those up. They also do um um stage exercises in order to make sure they they maintain the defense of their of their territories.
▶ 2:33:43They also work very closely with the department of defense and with US Indoaccom um to coordinate occasional presence. Um the the uh the a UK aircraft carrier is about to start a global uh mission. Uh they are going to go through the Indoacific. They are going to do so in close coordination with um with Admiral Paparo.
▶ 2:34:11So this gives us additional capacity out there as they come and go. Um and they continue to do that. However, the the alliance is focused on the defense of the alliance territory as defined as you pointed out in article 6. Um um that does not prevent them from operating outside my AO. Sakir's a does not include the United States.
▶ 2:34:36But the only time the alliance has declared article 5 in its history was the morning after 9/11 when they declared that it was an attack on all of us and sent NATO Awax planes to help our operation noble eagle to defend our skies in the aftermath of those 2001 terrorist attacks. Thank you, General. And also with the expansion of the ballistic missile system we have in Yukon.
▶ 2:34:58I'm wondering especially with the ages ashore and uh and the sites in Romania Poland the golden dome that we're looking at what is this experience and these lessons learned that we can reflect to help us in the Indopaccom um, at an at an unclassified level, we we were able to collect an awful lot of information about adversary, um, rockets and missiles uh, during the course of the conflict
▶ 2:35:28in Ukraine. Um, a lot of that is given to us by our Ukrainian colleagues. You know, we we gave them radars to defend themselves. They give us back invaluable data uh, that we're able to study. Um, so that's only one example, sir. Thank you, General. Um, Miss Thompson, just went one quickly. We just got a few seconds. Uh, I appreciate what SEG is doing. Uh, and he went to Yukon for a specific reason. Where did he go next?
▶ 2:35:58Uh, I believe he went to the Indo Pacific. That's right. I got to visit him there. Who was the last seg that came to the Indo Pacific to Guam uh before our current Secretary of Defense? I actually don't know off the top of my head, but I I know it has to have been 10 years at least. At least it was runs. Oh, that's right. I'm glad that the interest of the United States for our Secretary of Defense is going from not just from uh from the West Coast to the East Coast, but from the Atlantic to the Pacific. So, I thank you.
▶ 2:36:27Thank you for your testimony, General. Sir, gentleman's time's expired here. Now, I recognize gentleman from California, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I also want to give my prayers and uh sympathies to the families of the service members who lost their lives. Um and General Cavolei, thank you for your years of service as you kind of approached the end of uh a fantastic career that you've had. So thank you sir for everything.
▶ 2:36:51Um so when I was under secretary of defense for personnel readiness, uh I had a meeting with one of my counterparts from Lapia uh who was really concerned about how they could build up their reserves. Um I mean to the point they were worried about the Russians and the possibility of them coming there um that they were actually drilling you know elementary school children preparing military drill ensuring that they're learning that in elementary school to get them ready as they they matured and got older.
▶ 2:37:20Um obviously I think all the Baltic states Lithuania, Estonia, Latafia, they're all very concerned about the Russians and the the invasion into Ukraine probably did not ease their tensions. But how are we preparing our Baltic allies, getting them ready for the possible threat of a Russian invasion and really um maybe this might be more for the the there but I mean for the classified briefing, but um what is the possible threat later on if the Russians are
▶ 2:37:51successful in Ukraine that they will continue their aggression on other former uh Soviet states? Uh thank you sir. So, um, we we help them in a variety of ways. Um, first, how does how does NATO help them? NATO's new defense plans give a structure um for them to plan and to nest their national defense plans inside. So, those plans go together with the NATO plans.
▶ 2:38:20And this really helps a defense planner clarify a whole bunch of things about how much of what he needs where, etc., etc. Second, um the command structures that have been outlined and the relationships that have been outlined as a result of the plans or inside the plans gives them permanent relationships for units to build readiness with and headquarters to build procedures with. So that's one big advantage that that that helps them a great deal.
▶ 2:38:49Bilaterally, we work very closely with those allies because they're so intent on buying American stuff. So, it's one thing to buy a high Mars. It's another thing to know how to use it. That's pretty simple. But it's another thing entirely to know how to integrate that capability into your war fighting methodology.
▶ 2:39:08And so, for example, I've got a battery of high Mars, American HiMars in Estonia that's been working for well over a year and a half with them on how exactly they're going to incorporate their long range fires into their operational methodology after this. Um, I just was on the phone with the I just received a letter from the uh chief of defense of Lithuania who's interested in having a similar program, some sort of a high Mars Academy. I could go on and on.
▶ 2:39:36On a third level, we also do special security assistance initiatives. So, there's the Baltic Air and Missile Defense Initiative. There's the Baltic SEC State Security Initiative. And those are focused uh appropriations for us to be able to help them buy the American stuff that matters to us focused on air and missile defense and domain awareness in the air right now. Of course, uh because that's the most important thing. I guess I could go for hours. There are some classified things we do as well, Miss Congressman.
▶ 2:40:05All right, Miss Thompson, can we still be confident that uh we're going to keep troops in in Europe there and keep supporting NATO that the United States will step up if in fact the Russia does invade the Baltic states? Thank you for the the question, Congressman. On the first piece, I would I would just emphasize again, we're in the midst of a global posture review, so certainly we're taking these priorities and these considerations um into our analysis as we as we conduct that.
▶ 2:40:31And then I would also emphasize the secretary was very clear that we remain committed to NATO and that includes all facets of the treaty. And so I would say yes. And I would also just add perhaps a bit of color to what General Kavali was talking about specifically with the Baltics and and just emphasized that we we have been so appreciative um in this administration so far of how our Baltic friends um acutely understand the threat perception.
▶ 2:40:52And we hope that and we have encouraged our Baltic friends to communicate that threat perception to the western and central European powers as well as we try to encourage the alliance as a whole to focus on defense spinning. All right. And then I got 30 seconds but so very quickly General Kavali um you and your your counterparts Indopricom are always you know at I don't want to say at odds but always fighting for assets to kind of come into your areas of uh your command and areas of operation there responsibility.
▶ 2:41:21um how are we kind of working through that to get to this point there to kind of make sure that um we're not asking for too much but you know you're getting what you need. Sure. So our job is to articulate our requirements based on the task we're given sir and the secretary of defense with the advice of the chairman um um allocates the resources. Um there's there's another step though, right? Eric Carrill and I have known each other our whole lives. Uh um we can communicate.
▶ 2:41:48there are things that I can do to help alleviate some of his challenges and vice versa. Mike Langley's headquarters is right next door to my headquarters in Stoutgart. We talk back and forth and gentleman's times expired. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh like to add my condolences as well to those expressed by my colleagues, the family, loved ones and friends of the lost soldiers.
▶ 2:42:11and uh General Kavoli from the uh from the home state of the first Supreme Allied Commander, General Eisenhower, I'd like to extend uh our congratulations and gratitude to you for your service and would just note that uh we have had an unbroken line of American leadership at the top of NATO from its inception and I for one uh expect and hope that's going to continue into the foreseeable future. But we are engaged in a I'll call it a public rethinking of America's role in the world.
▶ 2:42:41Uh everybody in this room certainly spends their lives, their careers, their talents focused on this at a granular and strategic level every day. But because we've been effective at that for so long, uh many Americans have not had to engage in those discussions out and about and their support is critical as we make the decisions that move us ahead.
▶ 2:43:00So with that in mind, uh, General, I'd like to ask a couple of questions um that are intended to to inform the public discussion, not only the particularized discussion.
▶ 2:43:14Can you talk for a bit about uh the level of importance, the nature of importance u of continuing to have a heavy ground presence uh on the European continent in terms of our security planning going forward whether it's armory, infantry or Sure sir.
▶ 2:43:34Um so the alliance we collectively require a heavy ground um that is specifically to be able to overcome that singular Russian advantage of being able to put its forces on our borders as an alliance before the initiation of hostilities that causes a time space problem for us in terms of reinforcing.
▶ 2:44:02So the positioning of this large force has to be appropriate to the situation right to to to the level of threat. Whether that ground force comes from America or someplace else is really Sakir doesn't care as long as it functions there.
▶ 2:44:18There are some capabilities that the US is very careful to make sure we continue to contribute because they're exquisite and in some cases unique and and we understand that those will have to be there all the time otherwise.
▶ 2:44:33So the really the question is what is the preponderance of US versus other nations um heavy ground force that is committed um and um that's something we balance all the time um and that's something that will change as our European allies pick up the capabilities targets we've just assigned them in the NATO defense planning process and commit the money that they've devoted in a profitable in a productive acquisition program to get the stuff they
▶ 2:45:04Thank you, General. And at risk of of sounding like I'm reading from the history books, I'm old enough to remember um Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. And if my memory is correct, it was our ability to rapidly move the Seventh Corps from Europe to the Middle East that allowed us to launch Desert Storm uh with the rapidity that we did. Can you speak a little bit um your point about whether there are American heavy ground forces or European allies in Europe?
▶ 2:45:32Um how does having American heavy ground forces uh pre-eployed in the European theater affect our planning and our ability to respond to American interests in the Middle East or in other proximate areas outside of uh Europe immediately? It it's fundamental to it to to it sir. There are uh there are three principal components of it's important to us access basing and overflight.
▶ 2:46:00So our ability to um base our forces someplace and to have the ability to access those forces to deploy them and then to have agreements to overfly nations. All of those things happen. They're usually based on pretty deep relationships. If you want it to be there when you need it, it's got to be, you know, you have to have prepared for that moment.
▶ 2:46:24So that those three things, assets, basic, and overflight are are really a shorthand way of saying that gives us the ability to put forces forward in readiness waiting to be deployed. Now, to what extent do we need to do that? That's that's largely a policy question. Um, but that is the strictly military advantage of having forces forward for our own purposes. We do deploy them all the time.
▶ 2:46:47Um, we've been, you know, you know, leaning toward and them backing off of non-combatant evacuation operations throughout the, uh, Mediterranean area for for a couple of years. We provide forces on short notice to General Corrill to be able to use in central command. Um, um, I I could go on, but I I I think I've I hope I've answered your question. Gentleman's time's expired. Chair, not recognizes gentle lady from New Hampshire, Miss Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:47:16I want to begin by joining my colleagues in expressing my heartbreak over the loss of our four fallen service members and my sincere condolences to their families. I also want to join in expressing my gratitude to you, General, for your long and faithful service to our country. You know, we we don't agree always in Congress.
▶ 2:47:38We often disagree these days but one thing I want to say at the outset is we've heard a lot of noise but we've actually heard a lot of agreement in this hearing from across this disgreement on basic principles and commitments that I think are worth reiterating because people from Warsaw to the Kremlin should hear it loud and clear. Does the United States of America have a national security interest general in the survival and the strength of the NATO alliance? I believe it does.
▶ 2:48:08And Miss Thompson? Yes, ma'am. And what about the survival and strength of our European allies, including Ukraine? Yes. Thank you. I I think it's important that we we reiterate these basic principles. And General, could you elaborate on on what is the nature of that national security interest that we have in the NATO alliance and and in the survival and strength of Ukraine? Uh yes ma'am. Absolutely.
▶ 2:48:38Um so a lot of the interests are are a lot of the uh the benefits are are rooted common interests, common values, common histories, things like that. I I'm not going to go into those just because that that that's subjective, debatable, and and people have different opinions on it. as a military matter.
▶ 2:49:00Um, some of the most advanced militaries in the world are in the NATO alliance and some of the militaries in the world that we can be shest will work with us and are militarily interoperable with our forces are in the NATO alliance.
▶ 2:49:21Um it's surprising when you go outside of Europe how much the absence of something like NATO, the structures, the interoperability is noticed Thank you, General. This may be more for a closed setting, but I you you shared with us in your written testimony and several times today that Russia's war in Ukraine is the most visible sign of Moscow's great power ambitions.
▶ 2:49:49So, I want to give you an opportunity to tell us a little bit more about how you think about Vladimir Putin's ambitions. What would satisfy Vladimir Putin? Would taking the eastern half of Ukraine satisfy his ambitions or would it embolden him? Well, you know, I think if we go back and look at the history of his tenure as as the president of Russia, you you can follow his ambitions. They they're pretty consistent, but they expand.
▶ 2:50:17Um clearly he's um not yet been satisfied with the amount of Ukraine that he that he's taken over because he's continued to try to fight forward. Um how the com the conflict ends, you know, may may disprove that. We we don't know yet. Um but he certainly um he certainly is interested in controlling the nations that are in his immediate neighborhood um by whatever means necessary.
▶ 2:50:46Um, and we've seen that demonstrated consistently over time. Could he stop tomorrow? We don't know. General, you you testified to the importance of our intelligence cooperation with our European allies and with Ukraine. You said that our ability to gather intelligence is enabled by enduring relationships that cannot develop episodically and that must be sustained.
▶ 2:51:11Can you, as someone who comes from the intelligence world, thank you for recognizing the important role that our intelligence cooperation plays. Is pausing our our intelligence cooperation with European allies a good thing for America's national security? Um, no. We want continuous sharing of intelligence. We normally do it, as you know, ma'am, on a bilateral basis.
▶ 2:51:35Um, we have very strong agreements with the nations in the alliance about bilateral intel sharing and and we're very we're very grateful for it. Was the pause last month in our intelligence cooperation and sharing with Ukraine helpful or harmful to America's interests in your area of operation in your in in in your That one I have to answer in close session, ma'am, because I just have to answer that one in close session. Thank you, General.
▶ 2:52:05With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentle yields back. Chair uh chair now recognizes gentle lady from Maryland, Miss Elfreth. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and and General, I too echo uh my deep condolences for the lives lost and service members and their families and echo my colleagues and and congratulations and thanks as the daughter of an entryman. uh he only retired as an FSE, but I greatly appreciate your 38 years uh of commitment to this nation's security. It doesn't go unnoticed from this committee.
▶ 2:52:36So, thank you very much. Not to correct you, ma'am, but there's no such thing as only an FSFC. I think my MLM might agree with you. So, um I I want to I want to dig in, General. you you mentioned the contributions of our allies in in your command in EU comm such as Poland as to the security of Europe and the subsequent security of this nation. You also mentioned Denmark as recently increasing its financial contributions here but also critically expanding its patrol of the Arctic.
▶ 2:53:05Um can you please just briefly expand on the importance of of that particular allyship with Um sure. Yeah, Denmark, ma'am, is one of our one of our strongest allies. The bilateral relationship um from the Danish perspective is far and away their their most important uh bilateral security relationship. Um I've I've known the prime minister of Denmark for quite a while and she she would initiate any conversation with that comment.
▶ 2:53:35Um they have been very reliable allies. They're they've got a high techch military, not a big one, but it's high-tech. They have extremely competent special forces and naval special forces. Um, and they contribute those liberally to the operations under my command as the supreme allied commander. Um, so yeah, very very strong ally. We love all our allies, but I would say that Denmark's a very strong one. You don't have favorites, but I appreciate that.
▶ 2:53:59Miss Thompson, reflecting on that, wouldn't you agree that the president's threats to possibly utilize military force to seize Greenland, a ter territory of Denmark, could only threaten that key allyship and again our shared ability to address the threats particularly from Russia in the Arctic? Thank you, Congresswoman. Um, what I would say is I would focus on the the the bilateral relationship piece that General Kavioli hit on.
▶ 2:54:21I think that there's a lot of cooperation here including um on on on Greenland in particular on the land mass particularly um we already have space capabilities there and I think that there's opportunities and the secretary and his pull aside um with the Danish minister of defense uh had a really positive conversation about where we could take the bilateral defense relationship. Um so I think there's room for growth and positivity there. Okay. General, you've shared that Russia poses a a chronic and growing threat and that they are focused on a quote campaign of destabilization across your command.
▶ 2:54:48Um, you also spoke about the intersection of of how you work with the other combatant commands particularly around the Mediterranean. I want to switch our conversation to yet another domain that being of cyber and can you help us better understand uh the cyber wars that Russia is waging against Ukraine, our allies in NATO, your command in Europe and can you speak to your collaboration with Cyber Command uh which is headquartered just a stones throw from my district? Yes, ma'am.
▶ 2:55:13I think I think uh the simplest way to to to get at this question is to describe roughly the two buckets into which uh in which we can consider Russian cyber operations to fall. Right? Some of them are about the content. It's information operations. It's influence operations. It's the campaigns to spread their version of of of information around Europe and the world. Those are very very active.
▶ 2:55:41Those don't necessarily involve cyber work but can be injected through cyber cyber vectors but it can be as simple as a television channel. Um on the other hand there's also the technical cyber work that they do which is designed to penetrate um our networks to get into systems to produce effects. Sometimes it's to take information and sometimes it's to leave us problems. Um um and they do a lot.
▶ 2:56:08I depend very very heavily on US Cyber Command through 16th Air Force in order to be able to combat those things and to help our allies combat them. Thank you very much. And Miss Thompson, wouldn't you agree that the continuity of leadership and expertise for any command, but particularly when it comes to combating cyber war is essential to the security of EUCOM and our national security? Just yes or no? Yes. Okay.
▶ 2:56:33I would contend that the recent firing of a four-star general uh commander of US Cyber Command and National Security Agency Director General uh Timothy how with no succession plan in place and no word if his replacement poses a significant threat to Yukon Ukraine NATO and our homeland can you please speak Miss Thompson briefly to the secretary's timeline and announcing the replacement for cybercom. Thank you congresswoman for the question.
▶ 2:56:59I have to say I'm not privy to those decisions and it's outside of my jurisdiction in international security affairs. Um what I would say is obviously cybercom as as you've pointed out is essential to not only the yukcom a but also homeland defense which is a major priority. So um I I would just leave it there. Thank you. I would contend this is an astonishing volatile uh volatility and lacking continuity. It's posing a real threat unnecessary threat to our national security. Thank you Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:57:24Chair chair now recognizes the gentleman from California Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I too am very saddened by the loss of our soldiers, and I send my condolences to their family. General, I uh salute and thank you for your years of service. Thank you so much, and uh appreciate you both being here to testify today. Uh tariffs have been in the news a lot lately with President Trump uh leaving tariffs against our allies and adversaries alike.
▶ 2:57:50Like many people, I am deeply concerned about how these attacks will impact our military and diplomatic partnerships with our closest allies and partners. Miss Thompson, with the Trump administration's imposition of tariffs on EU goods, which I expect could disrupt global supply chains critical to American defense manufacturing, how is Yukon preparing for possible delays for cost increases in defense equipment sourced from Europe? Thank you for the question, Congressman. I'll start by saying, and again, I I want to say this very respectfully. I'm not trying to be evasive.
▶ 2:58:19It's just the effects of of tariffs specifically on the diplomatic relationship side or on the economic side are are a little bit outside of my jurisdiction. What I would say from the defense perspective is we are acutely focused on making sure that we can have a strong transatlantic industrial base on both sides of the Atlantic which includes reforms on both sides of the Atlantic. We certainly want the European Union to be open to continuing to partner with with the United States um on as the defense relationship goes.
▶ 2:58:43Um and both of us both the European Union and ourselves have reforms that we need to make uh to ensure that the economic environment in the defense industrial-based context um is certainly robust enough that we can uh make successful investments together. But but you do recognize that these strains will cause uh an effect on our industrial base. Yes, it's something that we will be looking at and taking into consideration as we pursue the defense industrialbased effort in particular. Right.
▶ 2:59:10General, what measure is uh Yukcom taking to address potential strains in defense collaboration and ensure joint operation uh operational So we we just uh we continue with our exercise programs. We continue with our consultations with our allies. We continue to work very closely. Yukon continues to work very closely with NATO, with the allied command operations. Um and and we move forward ju just in a straight military fashion, sir.
▶ 2:59:39And as European nations aim to enhance their defense industries and reduce dependency on US arms, how does Yukon assess the potential impact on NATO's collective defense posture? Well, um, we first we need our allies to rearm in general. If they rearm with stuff, we want them to rearm with equipment that works with ours. In many cases, the easiest way to do that is to buy us.
▶ 3:00:05So during the course of this conflict, Congressman, um the the orders, the value of foreign military sales orders, that is our allies orders to buy American equipment, have increased by 600%. There right now are 4,000 sales cases billion that European nations are lined up to buy uh from the United States as manufacturers.
▶ 3:00:35As the allied commander, I encourage that, right? I I want more capability and capacity as fast as we can get it. Uh have you seen any impacts of the recent tariffs impacting the uh 600% increase in those sales? Sir, I have not. I have been here uh for the last week and a half uh testifying to the Senate and now here. Um the deepening strategic partnership among China, Russia, Iran, uh North Korea pose an increasing challenge for the United States and its allies in Europe.
▶ 3:01:03I'm particularly concerned by Russian and Chinese economic and military partnership causing strain on individual European countries within the NATO alliance. General, how is Yukon working with European partners to deter or expose CCP efforts to fragment NATO cohesion through strategic investments? Sure, sir. Uh the first way is through intel sharing, right?
▶ 3:01:25We we have a number of different uh we have many many bilateral intel channels, but we also have a few um lesserk known multilateral intel sharing uh fora and in those we talk about these things. The department the department of defense Yukon also works closely with our state department colleagues in missions throughout the alliance um because they really have the lead in helping our allies avoid malign uh Chinese investments.
▶ 3:01:55Finally, as I mentioned to a member earlier, our exercise program um specifically uses infrastructure that we want to be sure of the reliability of. So we we vary what we do and where we do it so that we're always testing the reliability of our infrastructure. Those those and when we find a problem, we talk to our host nation about it right away. Thank you, General. Thank you, Miss Thompson. Uh chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields back.
▶ 3:02:24Chair now recognizes Mr. Bill of Missouri. Thank you, Mr. chair and the ranking me member um Miss Thompson uh General Cavolei, thank you for being here and also General I I want to add to the chorus of thanking you for 38 years of service.
▶ 3:02:45Um I would be remiss if I did not express my deepest condolences to the families of the four service members who tragically lost their life serving our nation in Lithuania. Um but uh again, thank you for your service and um and I and on behalf of my district in in the St. Louis region, uh we want to thank you and since you got a little time, if you ever want to come out, we're known for a beer. You can have that now, right?
▶ 3:03:15We're known for that in Cardinals game. so while our European allies have been working to increase their defense spending to meet the two 2% NATO defense target, the administration's recent decision to impose tariffs on nearly every NATO country and allied partner could undermine these efforts and potentially slow our collective General
▶ 3:03:45Cavali, um, how do you foresee these tariffs impacting the defense spending of our European allies? You know, I I I don't know, Congressman. Um, sir, I'm in an economic sense. I'm not an economist, so I can't I can't, you know, walk through the trail of how it'll work.
▶ 3:04:04I do know that our allies are determined to increase their defense capability and capacity no matter where they buy things from or no matter no matter how they get it. Um that is nearly a universal sentiment in in the alliance right now. Um and to spend more than 2% as as you go around you hear a lot of that. And and are these countries now less likely to meet the 2% target due to these tariffs?
▶ 3:04:33And will this hurt our European allies including the Baltic states who outspend the US pending you know as a percentage of GDP? Uh sir if if they're unable to access our market or if they have to pay more than expected for for equipment certainly that's going to going to affect how much capacity they can build how quickly. I don't know how the tariffs will exactly do that though.
▶ 3:05:00Um, in the past six months, Russian and Chinese ships have been implicated in sabotaging undersea cables. This comes as no surprise given Russia's ongoing efforts to target Ukrainian power cables, telecom links, and gas pipelines since it since its invasion of Ukraine 2022.
▶ 3:05:22Um, General, how is European Command addressing the threat of sabotage or disruption of undersea cables in European waters and what steps are being taken to mitigate the risks posed by state actors particularly Russia and China? Uh, so European Command serve first as with some of the other responses shares intelligence when when we get intelligence on this to support our allies as they defend their own uh infrastructure.
▶ 3:05:51We also defend our own US critical infrastructure that's that that that's overseas. Um, interestingly, the biggest um collective defenses of of uh critical national infrastructure don't involve the US hardly at all.
▶ 3:06:09So uh last year I started an operation called Baltic Sentry where we brought together under NATO command um voluntarily donated ships and crews as well as coastal defense radars from the Baltic allies, the allies in the Baltics and the Nordics. And we sewed those together into a into a a single operation that surveills and increases our understanding of what's going on in the surface and below the surface of the Baltic Sea. Uh for the longest time there were no US ships involved in that.
▶ 3:06:39There are no US ships involved in it today. I think I have 40 Marines who temporarily helped with a couple of radars. Um I and I think they may have departed already. So this is an example of our allies taking that upon themselves as as as they should and And let me if I could get one more question in general. Can you discuss the implications if the administr administration withdraws US troops from Syria?
▶ 3:07:04How might this affect our counterterrorism efforts in the eastern So, it would mainly from my perspective uh affect our ability to uh collect intelligence. Um and um and I have to leave that at at that in in open session. Sir, um, you know, I I concern myself very much with the with the Russian presence in the Eastern Mediterranean that has been greatly weakened.
▶ 3:07:34Gentleman's time's expired here. And I recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Whitesides. Thank you, General. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, thank you both for being here at this pivotal time for US interests in Europe. Obviously, this is a time of immense change in your AO, uh, the shifting US posture, the continuing war on Ukraine, not to mention the recent additions to the NATO alliance. It's clear to many of us on this committee that continued strong support for Ukraine is not only vital to US security interests, but to the continued strength and vitality of our alliances and partnership in Europe.
▶ 3:08:04General Kavoli, in the years since uh Putin's unprovoked invasion, I've been heartened to see that former Soviet states who had previously been differential to Russia were beginning to push back on Putin's bullying tactics. Obviously, the US posture towards Ukraine has changed a great deal in the last three months. In your opinion, how will uh how would a US withdrawal from global leadership in support of Ukraine impact these smaller nations ability to demonstrate independence from Russia?
▶ 3:08:32Specifically, in your opinion, will it have an impact on the democracy movement in Barus? Uh, Congressman, it's it's a it's a great and important question. A lot of answering it would would go well outside of my uh you know, my wheelhouse. I will say that all nations are watching very closely what the US does any place all the time. You know, we're we're such a mover on the global stage that everybody's constantly observing and calculating against that.
▶ 3:09:00Um that's especially true in those states um that have the opportunity to get out from R under Russia's shadow. Armenia would be an excellent example of of that. So they're watching closely. Thank you, sir. On a similar note, um I wanted to ask you about the following subject. So, uh Putin's regime is constantly engaged in egregious cyber crime and offensive cyber operations against us, our allies, against companies, infrastructure, you name it.
▶ 3:09:28Which is why I was very distressed to hear that this administration initiated a pause on offensive cyber operations against Russia. I'm honestly at a loss to understand how giving Putin's cyber criminals a free pass serves our national security or economic interests. General, does a cessation of offensive cyber operations either temporarily or ongoingly against Russia create any risk for our troops and operations in Europe?
▶ 3:09:53Uh sir, any details would have to be spoken about in in uh close session. Of course, um the cessation that you're talking about did not pose risk to my troops. Uh if if they had, I would have made that clear immediately. Thank you, sir. Uh, I just want to say on behalf of, you know, Congress and the nation, we're so grateful for your service and you are what makes America great. So, thank you so much. I yield back, Mr. Chair, I recognize a gentleman from Louisiana, Mr.
▶ 3:10:23Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General, thank you so much for being here, sir. Your tremendous service to our country. I'm an old army guy enlisted. I wanted to be Navy, but my ASPFAB scores were too high.
▶ 3:10:41So, I appreciate your service and and it just can't be it it can't be overstated the debt that our country has to you, your family, so many decades of sacrifice. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. since you're a former enlisted member of the service. I should point out that Sergeant Major Abernathy is sitting right behind me uh is uh leaving after many years of service this year as well. Well, and we thank him for it.
▶ 3:11:09Well, we're and NCO is always quite certain that if the officers don't show up, eventually somebody will notice, but if the NCOs's don't show up or the army's in trouble. So, General, uh, Ukraine, I'd just like to chat with you about Ukraine and and if you could for America and for some members of this committee that need clarity, could you describe
▶ 3:11:40from your from your perspective, which is quite unique and experienced, what does victory look like? Can you can you share with us what how you would envision victory? Should we continue to invest American treasure uh in and to seek some resolution of the of the Ukrainian war and then Russian invasion of Ukraine.
▶ 3:12:09Clearly we seek some definition of victory. Could you possibly share that? Absolutely, Congressman. Um uh and without getting into the realm of policy uh uh which Miss Thompson is obviously much much better prepared to talk about than I um I I think you have to start by saying victory for whom, right? And who who's victory? What is a good outcome for the United States look like is is is one part of that. Okay.
▶ 3:12:38What does a good outcome for Ukraine look like? Um, when you think about Ukraine, you know, you can think about it in increments. The first step to winning is not losing, right? So, so, so Ukraine has to defeat Russia's efforts to continue to take their territory. Um, then after that, you have a national question. How much of it do we want to take back? And what is the costbenefit analysis of what it will take to take that back?
▶ 3:13:08And I think the Ukraine the Ukrainians calculate that every day and and and plan against that every day. Um so you know it's a complicated question but I think an important part of it is we have to ask ourselves you you know what are the benefits for us in the various outcomes. So to the gentleman's point and and thank you for sharing your perspective there in this setting you're limited in how you can respond. I'm quite sure.
▶ 3:13:34But it's important for America to observe that that we do seek resolution of this of this war and and this Congress and this committee in particular has has carries quite a heavy burden on you know making responsible decisions on behalf of the American people that we represent.
▶ 3:13:56So defining victory is to to some of us at this point has has become as clear as just a cessation of war, the sessation of of the of the killing. And and for for some of us it was difficult to envision any scenario where Ukraine Russia.
▶ 3:14:21it this seems to be a fantastic projection of the wildest imaginations of of what potentials could be. So sustaining the war, it would be sustaining the killing of of Ukrainian men and women and the destruction of Ukrainian territories. And it seems to us that Russia can can bear the brunt of this conflict for for quite a long time.
▶ 3:14:50And I would ask the good lady's perspective of give us a window on ending this thing and how can we look forward to some uh some sustained peace and in in a way that Ukraine could could measure some Thank you, Congressman. And I can certainly provide additional color to this in in our close session from a policy perspective, but President Trump, as you've rightly hit on, his goal is to end it as soon as possible.
▶ 3:15:16And that's why we're undergoing the peace process that that that's currently um in in discussion. And I would say um you know again the goal is to to end that peace process in an enduring fashion so that we're not at this table again um in the short medium or long-term period of time. Thank you, Madam Chairman. My time is expired. Chair now recognize gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Pinman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 3:15:42Um, first, uh, I want to pass on my condolences to you, um, the entire Yukon family and, uh, the families of the fallen four dogface soldiers from Third ID. Um, that's a tremendous loss.
▶ 3:15:57Uh, next, I want to say, um, as a retired Army officer myself, I want to congratulate you on your upcoming retirement and recommend avoiding electoral politics if you want peace and Um, right now our adversaries are challenging the United States interests around the globe and Russia's continued illegal war uh in Ukraine is far from over.
▶ 3:16:20In your written testimony, you focused on the chronic threat that Russia poses to the United States and the importance of land deterrence and it's been a really persistent threat for for decades now in one iteration or another from the Soviet Union to the present. General Cavoli, how many troops do we need in Europe to defer deter Russia at its current end strength? Sir, our our our current um capacity is deterring Russia right now.
▶ 3:16:46Um of course that the answer to that question always depends on where Russia goes in the future, right? How do they configure themselves? Where do they place themselves? What are their intentions for what we're doing right now? Uh it's obviously working, but they're quite occupied elsewhere. I would point out I I wouldn't measure it also strictly by end strength, the numbers of human beings.
▶ 3:17:09It really comes down to what capabilities are we able to bring to bear, how quickly, and how does that nest in to the alliance's efforts which are evolving and increasing. So over time, I would expect our contribution to to to drop. Um it's going to take some time, however. So, I want to address the the issue that my colleague from Louisiana just just discussed.
▶ 3:17:34And kind of part of um what victory looks like is a free and sovereign and secure Ukraine. And so, so far that has come at no cost in American lives as far as uniform service members. Although there have been obviously many volunteers that have gone over and felt the need um was great and and sacrificed tremendously.
▶ 3:17:56Um, in the context of of my definition and um kind of how you see victory, is victory for Ukraine possible? Uh, Congressman, not losing is definitely possible and I think that's the first step.
▶ 3:18:16So, if we're talking about a free, sec, secure, sovereign um the actions that we've taken so far, I mean, they've not lost yet. But how do we take it to the next level if we want to get a meaningful piece that that provides for a free, sovereign, and secure Ukraine? What do we need to do in addition to what we've done so far? Well, uh I I think there's a military contribution to that, sir. Of course.
▶ 3:18:45But I think that um the principal questions would probably be outside of my outside of my lane. I'm talking in your in your purview and and briefly obviously do we need to provide them more stuff? We we we need to continue to provide them the defensive mechanisms to prevent the heinous attacks that we've provide more intelligence u intelligence air defense weapon systems and then artillery systems and and ammunition.
▶ 3:19:14Those are always the important things that they need. Those will pressure Russia to come to the negotiating table in in a more balanced fashion to achieve the victory that I described, which is a free, secure, and sovereign Ukraine. Those those could be a contributor to that effort. Okay. Um, I want to transition a little bit and talk about you mentioned your relationships going back decades with with your counterparts and different COCOMs.
▶ 3:19:43General Curillo for instance, there are other relationships that for instance the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, I'm sure you've you've known him. You worked with him closely coordinate with the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff with um the functional combatant commanders like cybercom uh with the uh the senior adviser to NATO. Those folks have all been fired in the last couple of months. Is that is that correct? Uh yes, sir. Yeah.
▶ 3:20:12And so, have you ever seen this type of sort of um chaos or or um sort of lack of of coordination in your 38 years? Have you ever have to deal with that kind of shuffling of of personnel that are your counterparts that help enable your mission? Um I I have had to deal with with uh uh shufflings and things like that before. Yes, sir. Gentleman's time's expired.
▶ 3:20:42Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Georgia, Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good to see you again, General. It's been a couple years now that we've known each other and uh I've seen you around the world, several different places. I know you're going to miss dealing with crayon eat Marines and uh and better looking uniforms, I might add, better commercials. Uh but with that said, it's interesting. The first time I ever saw you at a hearing, I asked you a very specific question about can we win in Ukraine. You said, you didn't even hesitate. You said absolutely. And I agree with you.
▶ 3:21:12And for those people who are doubters, uh I I make the case first of all that we have between us and Europe, we have a $50 trillion economy versus two versus two. We control sanctions. We control the economy. We control energy production. And we can undermine Russia in so many ways economically, not even to mention militarily. Germany has a $5 trillion economy versus two for Russia.
▶ 3:21:42There should be no competition here. But the problem is when we went to command and staff, we went to go to war college and we do all our advanced training, we always learn how to execute a war fullthroated, not halfass, not going partial measures and then drawing it out like we have every war since Korea in my opinion. We did this with Iraq. We did it with Afghanistan. We continue to draw it out. We went half measures and it went way too long.
▶ 3:22:07And I feel like we're doing the same thing here instead of just saying all in this thing within one year it's over. That's Claus of witchian warfare. Now of course we take nukes off the table. I understand the the deterrence there. But do you think we still a year after we had our first conver a couple years after we had our first conversation. Do you still think that what I just said is viable and has application in this process to ending this war? I I do sir.
▶ 3:22:32the the role of um assistance to Ukraine, the pace of assistance to Ukraine, the magnitude of it has an outsized impact in this in in in this war. So, Mr. Thompson, I just say if if I could give you feedback to president, these are two military guys who've been in this business for a long time and actually there's a whole lot more than that. We can end this war in many many ways. I love what the president's doing to put pressure on Russia to end this, but he's in the power seat.
▶ 3:23:01He's the most powerful man in the in the world uh with sanctions, with energy production, the things he's doing, also with with the development of our businesses there, which Russia would have a hard time attacking if we're there. But also the fact that president has been very strict and saying, "Hey, I got the bigger button. I have the bigger military. I have more economic power than anybody in the universe. We can end this." The president is the big man in the room and I would love to see him put pressure on Putin because he has that leverage.
▶ 3:23:31Uh getting back more to tactics and away from strategy. Uh we have new munitions. We have the the glide bombs. We have wireguided munitions now very similar to what the toe is, but they have loitering capacity with the uh the the new drones. Uh what are we doing to both develop that and also to counter that in in technologies?
▶ 3:23:51Obviously, you're not going to talk about anything classified, but do you feel like we're moving at pace for our newly development weapon Uh yeah, Congressman a general never feels like we're moving at a at an adequate pace when it comes to development of new weapon systems, especially in conflict. um uh we we continue to help our Ukrainian uh partners in their development of this stuff, but they have really, you know, they've become the world experts in in one way drones and and they are very very good at it.
▶ 3:24:21They're also very good at countering it. Um and and and and are doing that. Um our ability to learn from them is an important uh is an important thing. Uh a few minutes ago, a member asked about lessons learned and how we're incorporating those. you know, one of one of the um if you if you can find a silver lining in this tragic dark cloud of this war, uh we are learning an awful lot about the future of warfare and about Russia's capabilities as well.
▶ 3:24:49I think that have great applications to Taiwan in the Straits as well when we're talking about legacy systems versus the newer technologies that are going to impact the battlefield. I'm almost out of time, but I want to take this time as you're nearing retirement just to say that no matter what happens, no matter how bad your uniform looks compared to the Marines or anything like that, you have one thing that you can always hang your hat on and you have the coolest title ever. Supreme Allied Commander. Nobody can take that from you for the rest of your life. God bless you, Ser Fidelis. Good luck in your next uh career. Thank you, sir. With that, I yield, sir.
▶ 3:25:19Gentleman yields. We will now conclude this open session and and take up the closed se session in room 2212 at 10 minutes after 1:00. We're