▶ 0:08:31of the federal Thank you. The Federal uh oversight of the Federal Communications Commission members will have five legislative days within which to revise and extend their remarks and insert extraneous material into the record. I now recognize myself for opening statement. I'd like to thank Chairman Carr for being here today and for his leadership at the FCC. Federal Communications Commission was created for the purpose of expanding access to radio, television, and other communication services for all Americans.
▶ 0:09:00Methods of communication have changed a lot uh uh since the FCC was founded more than 90 years ago. Decades of technological advancements have made long-distance communications much more affordable. In 2023, the total number of wireless connections within the United States reached almost 558 million or more than 1.6 connections per American. The FCC continues to play an important role in expanding access to new technologies and making communication services more affordable for all Americans.
▶ 0:09:30Since fiscal year 2023, the FCC has received flat funding of $390.2 million. Each year, the commission's uh appropriation is fully offset by the collection of regulatory fees paid by license holders. Not only is the FCC's appropriation fully offset, but the commission routinely transfers any excess revenue to the Treasury for deficit reduction. The FCC has become a leader in securing our nation's telecommunications infrastructure from national security threats.
▶ 0:10:00The rip and replace program has provided essential funding to help service providers replace equipment manufactured by companies under the influence of Chinese Communist Party. Congress has authorized close to $5 billion for these efforts. I look forward to hearing more about that important program and the progress that continues to be made. I'm also encouraged by Chairman Carr's efforts to identify and remove unnecessary regulations that inhibit inhibit innovation and economic growth.
▶ 0:10:26Since March of this year, the FCC has been collecting feedback from the public on regulatory changes that will facilitate and encourage investment in modernizing networks, developing infrastructure, and promoting competition. In addition to its deregulation efforts, the FCC has taken concrete steps to streamline agency processes, eliminate wasteful spending. Just last week, the commission announced more than $567 million in expected savings from reduced contract spending.
▶ 0:10:53I'm interested to learn more about these efforts, the steps chairman car you're going to take to improve the agency's fiscal health and your priorities more generally to the Federal Communications Commission and how this committee can assist in achieving those goals. I now recognize the ranking member for his opening remarks. Thank you very much. a timely appearance. Need a microphone.
▶ 0:11:23There you go. You're on now. Uh, thank you very much. Thank you, uh, Mr. Carr for being with us. Um, we had a good conversation in my office. This probably won't be as cordial as we were, but I'm very concerned. When Donald Trump spoke before the Congress in March, he said this. I've stopped all government censorship and brought back free speech in America. It's back, he said.
▶ 0:11:52Now, he'd also said during the campaign to his supporters, I am your retribution. You may remember that quote. um uh that rang in my ears and gave me great concern. The FCC's actions the past few months make it clear just how relevant those comments were.
▶ 0:12:22What was once an independent impartial agency uh not always devoted to keeping Americans connected has become in my uh to some degree the speech police another cudel in the president's culture war since Trump took office the FCC has gone after private corporations over their DEI practices very frankly my view that may be a practice ice that he
▶ 0:12:52can impose on the federal government but is not a practice that he can impose nor should he impose on the private sector whatever the views we may hold. The agency, in my opinion, has also targeted NPR, PBS, NBC, ABC, and CBS and other networks uh apparently uh who are perceived unfavorably to the president and uh to policies.
▶ 0:13:22The first amendment, of course, is not intended to protect the president from the press. It is intended to protect the president, excuse me, the press uh against the government. Nor was the FCC established to act in the president's interest, but rather in the public's interest. Now more than ever, the American people are counting on the FCC to focus on its mission under law.
▶ 0:13:46Something we discussed in my office, however, was when he removed FTC commissions, he did it quoting or trying to quote uh that the actions of those commissioners were incompatible with the priorities of the administration. Communications technologies that fall under the FCC's purview are fundamental to everything in modern life.
▶ 0:14:14They shape our commerce, our education, our national security, our healthcare, and our elections. In an increasingly digital world, the FCC needs to ensure that we don't leave that behind. That means expanding Oh, this is inconvenient. That means expanding affordable, reliable access to the internet and other crucial technology in both rural and urban areas. I represent urban and rural areas.
▶ 0:14:39We made a lot of progress toward closing the digital vibe when the affordable connectivity program funded by the bipartisan infrastructure law legislation I was proud to put on the floor as majority leader. I heard directly from my constituents, Republicans and Democrats and Republican officials. I live in a county with five Republican county commissioners. They all urged me to continue that because of the very positive impact it had on my uh district and in that rural county in which I live.
▶ 0:15:10Regrettably, my colleagues across the aisle allowed that program to expire last year, raising interest costs for the 23 million households that enrolled. I still haven't seen any plan on how we fill that void. Worse, I've heard rumors that the FCC's spectrum policy involves auctioning off or reducing bands, including the Citizens Broadband Radio Service, which could make it even harder for Americans to get connected.
▶ 0:15:38The FCC has a responsibility not only to help Americans access these opportunities, but also to protect them from potential perils. Every day, Americans experience roocalls and internet scam attempts that become more and more sophisticated. Their personal data falls prey to hackers and scammers. Americans need strong and savvy cops on beat. Committed to cyber security and privacy.
▶ 0:16:07In my view, that is the role of FCC. Chairman Carr, I I thank you for coming in today, as I said, but I want to be clear that I'm worried that the FCC and so many other elements of government that ought to be independent are, in the president's words, not referring to anything that I've referred to, but weaponizing government. The FCC's attacks on the press and the First Amendment are troubling.
▶ 0:16:36So, I look forward to hearing your testimony. I will honor the chairman's gabble, but uh it requires a lot of time to make sure the FCC is doing what the American people expect it to do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Hoyer. Today, we welcome the the testimony of the Honorable Brendan Carr, chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. Chairman Carr, without objection, your full written testimony will be entered into the record.
▶ 0:17:03With that in mind, we'd ask that you please summarize your opening statement in 5 minutes. Uh, thank you, Chairman Joyce, Ranking Member Pyer, distinguished members of this subcommittee. Thank you for the invitation to testify. And I want to start as someone from Virginia that recognizes the life and legacy of service of of Jerry Connelly uh today. I grew up not far from his district, so I wanted to to recognize him at the outset.
▶ 0:17:25Since joining the FCC, I've had the privilege of testifying before Congress a number of times, including in front of this subcommittee just last year, but this is my first time appearing before Congress as chairman of the FCC. and there's some new subcommittee members here. So, I want to start with a brief introduction. I first joined the FCC as a staffer back in 2012 and I've had the privilege of serving in a number of different roles since then.
▶ 0:17:47From an attorney in the office of general counsel to a legal adviser for a commissioner, general counsel of the FCC before President Trump nominated me to serve as a commissioner back in 2017. Over these past dozen years, I've had the honor of working alongside some of the most talented public servants in the federal government. I'm proud of the work they get done for the American people. And speaking of getting things done, it's been a particularly busy time at the FCC.
▶ 0:18:15We've hit the ground running, and I'd like to highlight some of the commission's critical work under my leadership so far. To start, we've taken quick action on spectrum. This is important work because getting additional airwaves into the commercial marketplace drives town prices for consumers, increases competition, and advances America's national security. To that end, we launched a new proceeding that looks at freeing up more mid-band spectrum and what's known as the C-band.
▶ 0:18:42We started a proceeding to explore creative ways to use the 37 gigahertz band. in we're voting tomorrow on ideas for more intensive use of multiple gigahertz of spectrum in other bands. Earlier this year, we also kicked off the process for auctioning AWS3 licenses and the proceeds of this will be used to help facilitate the RIP and replace national security program. More broadly though, it's important that Congress restore the FCC's general spectrum auction authority.
▶ 0:19:12US leadership in wireless is about more than connectivity. It's part and parcel of America's geopolitical leadership and national security. Auctioning spectrum is also good for the Treasury as spectrum auctions raise hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue. Restoring FCC auction authority via a robust pipeline of mid-band spectrum as President Trump called for just yesterday as part of reconciliation is one of the most important steps Congress can take in the near term.
▶ 0:19:42Apart from spectrum, the FCC's been busy on other fronts, too. We're working to unleash new high-speed infrastructure builds, focusing on boosting America's space economy, launching a massive deregulatory effort and closing dormant proceedings. In parallel with all this, we're working to protect consumers. This includes expanding the agency's work to combat illegal roocalls and bolstering our call blocking rules.
▶ 0:20:08The FCC is also taking steps to enhance our national security and public safety. At the beginning of my time as chairman, I created a new council on national security within the FCC that leverages all of the agency's authorities and relevant work streams to counter the threats posed by foreign adversaries.
▶ 0:20:27The council is already hard at work, including an ongoing investigation into the US operations of businesses that were previously placed on the FCC's covered list due to national security risks. At the same time, the FCC is focused on delivering efficient results. With respect to our current budget, the FCC is operating successfully under a CR of just over $390 million in addition to additional funding for our spectrum auction programs.
▶ 0:20:54On the workforce front, the FC employed 1,461 full-time employees at the beginning of FY25. And as the end of last month, the FC employs 1,383 outside of our inspector general operations. As President Trump and Congress finalize the FCC's fee funded budget for next year, the agency will keep delivering great and efficient results for the American people.
▶ 0:21:21We're going to do so by accelerating infrastructure builds, promoting US leadership in wireless, expanding our space economy, eliminating needless regulations, protecting consumers, including additional work on robocalls, and promoting our national security and public safety. While we make progress on this, the FCC is also going to be eliminating waste. We've already started this process and so far found more than 6.7 million in savings for the remainder of FY25.
▶ 0:21:49We've reduced the FCC's authorized contract spend by over a half a billion dollars. And a lot of the savings come from looking at bloated and duplicative IT contracts. These savings have had real results for the FCC and the agencies on sustainable financial footing. In closing, I want to thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Chairman Carr. I now recognize myself for questions.
▶ 0:22:16Following up on that last paragraph or so of your statement, uh you announced last week that they reduced the authorized contract spending by more than $567 million. Can you explain which type of contracts were reduced or eliminated and how these potential savings were identified and if uh at all Doge had played any role in that? Uh thank you chairman for the question. Two things there. One, we stood up our own internal Doge group at the FCC.
▶ 0:22:44And one of the things that I tasked them to do was a toptobottom review of every single contract the FCC has, and this initial decision of reducing contract ceilings as well as other savings was a product of that. We've also worked in coordination with the official Doge group as well. Uh the main portion of those savings again was IT contracts where we had uh licenses for services that we didn't need. We cut uh duplicative services and so that was the the main focus that initial review. But we continue to work on this effort.
▶ 0:23:12Well, of that 567 million in cost savings, only 27.8 million will be realized over the next two years. When do you expect to realize the remaining $539 million in savings? Yeah, two things are going on here. One, we're realizing savings, as you noted, the 20 million now. We have additional projections uh for next year as well. The contract ceiling number is just here's how much we were authorized to spend on different contracts over a number of years into the future. We brought those contract ceilings down to make sure that we're not overspending down the road.
▶ 0:23:42Outside of contracting service, have you identified any other opportunities for the FCC for significant cost savings? Yeah, there's a lot that we're doing. You know, one, we're taking a look at uh dormant dockets. So, the FCC, for instance, has over 2,000 proceedings that we're looking at closing that ultimately can save staff time by not having to monitor those dockets. uh we've closed advisory committees that we don't think are either aligned with uh our statutory mission uh or otherwise not critical to our core mission. That's also resulted in savings as well.
▶ 0:24:10And principally we're just refocused on the agency's core mission and that's connecting more Americans through our work on spectrum, on infrastructure, on national security. We think that's going to pay dividends as well. Since the creation of the rip and replace program, Congress has appropriated $ 1.9 billion to remove telecommunication equipment that pose serious threats to our national security. However, due to a higher than expected cost uh program cost, Congress authorized the FCC to borrow an additional $3 billion to cover this shortfall.
▶ 0:24:40Can you describe the terms of the FCC's loan from the Treasury and how the commission plans to make the required loan payments? Yes. So, respect to rip and replace, this is a very significant and important effort. This is the way that we are getting Huawei and ZTE and similar insecure gear out of our networks that had infiltrated it throughout the country. Congress initially appropriated initial sum of roughly $3 billion. The FCC had about a $3 billion shortfall after that. Congress has closed that gap.
▶ 0:25:07We've now borrowed funding from the Treasury to to complete that process. We will repay uh Treasury with proceeds from that AWS3 spectrum auction. In a nutshell, at the end of last year, we were roughly 28% complete with the RIP and replace program, and we expect to be either complete or essentially fully complete uh by about a year from now, the work should be completed. Is the FCC required to make interest payments as part of the borrowing agreement? Will that further constrain your ability to meet the program's objectives?
▶ 0:25:36When Congress passed the legislation last year authorized us to borrow that additional money, uh the view of Treasury and the view of the interpretation of the language was that we'd have to use a portion of that money to pay interest for the borrowed money. So that's resulted in a uh shortfall that impacts one provider uh that's recently been added into the program. Do you expect the treasury loan to cover the remaining rip and replace funding needs or will Congress need to provide additional resources for everybody except for that one entity?
▶ 0:26:05They are now fully provided for by the legislation from Congress. We just have a shortfall now with threat to one particular provider. Now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Hoyer, for any questions he may have. Thank you very much. Let Thank you very much. Let me just pursue uh the chairman's opening question on 567 million as I understand that what you're saying essentially is $510 million of that is prospective and speculative.
▶ 0:26:36Speculative in the sense that it has not been spent or obligated at this point in time. Is that accurate? Yeah. Again, two things are going on. We've reduced contracts. Let's say we have a contract that authorized a million dollars. we could reduce that to 500,000. That's some protection down the road. U in addition to that, we have other sort of hard savings as well, including uh as we indicated in a press release, 6.7 million for the remainder of FY25 and anticipating 21 million in 2026. That's the 27.
▶ 0:27:06Yeah. Uh which is approximately 5% of the savings that you're claiming may occur. Yeah. I mean, to be clear, I don't mean to to mislead on the numbers. The numbers speak for themselves. a contract stealing number which people can debate the significance of that that's fine but we think it's it's a number that we've we've shrunk and so we put that data out there in addition to other data as well but we're going to continue the process and look for additional savings I appreciate that the point is you can point to 27.8 8 million in actual cuts
▶ 0:27:36at this point in time. Right. Thank you. Yes. Um you make the statement um on uh the first page which I appreciate because I represent a lot of federal employees as this committee knows. I have had the honor of working alongside some of the most talented public servants in the federal government. Uh I appreciate that statement. I think the public does not recognize the talent that you have working for you and that's unfortunate. Let me ask you something.
▶ 0:28:05Of the 78 spots that have been reduced since January, uh that is from going from the 1461 down 1383. How many of those were reduced as a result of the offer of early retirement? Uh all of them. Uh well, let me let me just walk through this. So the the 1461 number was start of FY25. On January 20th the number was 1448.
▶ 0:28:36As of the end of last month it was 1383. But you have to add into that number the inspector general's office which is roughly 40. So as of the end of last month we were 1426. That delta is explained by natural attrition. Some taking voluntary early retirement under programs opened up by my predecessor. Some was the fork in the road. Um I can provide more details for you on this. The fork in the road in particular had 67 employees.
▶ 0:29:04We had 26 employees who took advantage of that early retirement window that was opened by my predecessor and then separately we had 21 people uh that took normal retirement. Obviously there were some uh onboarding as well during that process.
▶ 0:29:19Now that would imply that there more people 57 26 21 is greater than the 78 that I was referring to from the uh prior number to the January 20th number the 14 uh 61. So have you hired back some people? Uh there's been some hiring for instance in the the office of the chairman. We've uh staffed up in the chairman's office. There's been some hiring. I can get you the the hiring numbers um as well if that's helpful.
▶ 0:29:49that would be helpful. Appreciate you submitting those. Um, with respect to uh the employees, I want to read you something. Let me tell you your response. We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected when they wake up in the morning. We want them not to want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want to put them in trauma. Do you perceive any of your employees as the villains?
▶ 0:30:17Well, uh, Congressman, look, I was attracted and drawn to work to the FCC in 2012. It was my hope to join the FCC's talented workforce. I've worked alongside of these people. They've been, uh, my mentors. They've been carrying out the FCC's mission, not just since I've been chair, but before that. Uh, I think it's an honor and privilege to work alongside them. I know that Chairman Ferguson, we testified here a week ago, said he'd put his FTC staff up against any other agency, and I think I would take him up on that offer.
▶ 0:30:44I think the FCC's um career staff is is talented. One thing we have done though is we have you know returned to the office and that's been a big shift and a big transition and we've tried to work with the staff as we do that. But when I became chair we still had roughly 98% of the relevant covered employees working under COVID era teleawwork which in some cases was just return to the office uh a couple days of pay period. So we tried to to flip those numbers a little bit. I have just 11 seconds left to go.
▶ 0:31:13Would I would I conclude that you think that that statement does not reflect a positive personnel policy? I'm saying that that's not a statement that I have made. Um I I don't I don't know exactly the source of it, but Mr. Vote made it. Um but like I said, the the FCC's workforce from my own personal experience is incredibly talented and they're the reason why we've had a very productive first 100 days at the agency. Thank you. I'll take that as a no. Thank you, Mr. Hoyer. Uh the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Arkansas, Mr. Wulme for his question.
▶ 0:31:43I thank the chairman and um welcome Mr. Carr again uh to the subcommittee and you and I are going to carry on a conversation that we started last year. If you recall last year I was discussing the fact that my father who'd been in broadcasting for over 70 years was in the process of winding things down and retiring. He's now 90 sitting at home watching a lot of television and calling me.
▶ 0:32:09um he he retired, but he also took his stations completely off the air. Uh and there are reasons for that I won't go into here, but it just reminds me of just how important local broadcast stations are. And I can probably speak for everybody on this panel. We all have them. and they perform a valuable service that uh far too often we're losing today.
▶ 0:32:39The coverage of local news, weather, sports, those kinds of things. We've had communities hard hit by major disasters where people would normally tune to their local stations to gather vital information and the like. uh now that you're chairman um and and I recall what you said last year that if we care about these broadcast operations, we should care about the regulatory environment.
▶ 0:33:05Now that you're chairman, what can you say about the FCC's approach to making sure that our local industry is healthy and prosperous and worthy of investment? Yeah, thank you u Congressman for the question. And I think the the best way to describe my approach to media regulation is to look to empower the type of local broadcasters that you and your father uh epitomize.
▶ 0:33:29I think there's a lot of concern in the country right now, which we can talk about about uh legacy national news media and there's a lot of distrust there, but there's a tremendous amount of trust when it comes to the local broadcasters and that's what we need to empower and I'm very open-minded to that at the FCC and there's ways forward that we can do that. I'm reminded of of a story. I was in a small town Cody, Wyoming, I visited a local radio station. They had, you know, real journalists, real reporters there providing local news, local information.
▶ 0:33:56And a few miles down the road um in Powell, Wyoming, there was a broadcast station that didn't have the opportunity or the scale to do that. And so they had a Dell laptop effectively pumping in music from Chicago. We have rules at the FCC that said the Cody Wyoming operation could not expand and bring localism to Powell, Wyoming because of these outdated FCC media ownership rules. That is one thing that I'm very open-minded on and would like to take on uh in my time as chair is reforming the FCC's media ownership rules.
▶ 0:34:26I think that's a effort well spent. Um let's talk budget for just a minute. U we got the skinny budget. I didn't see anything from the FCC in there. Um, we've already talked about the buyout options and the projections of, you know, whatever percentage of the workforce is going to go away.
▶ 0:34:46Um, and and let me just say for the record, I agree with the president's approach in trying to rein in uh the massive spending that happens in in a place like this. But when are we going to see a number? and what can you live with if you're free to tell us here this morning? Uh well, thank you. I I I have no news to break on on the timing.
▶ 0:35:10Again, currently we're operating under $390 million CR plus additional funding for auctions program and we are on very, you know, stable, comfortable financial footing. Again, we've had a reduction in FCC FTEES, but that has not held us back at all. We got a very very busy 100 days and I'm very comfortable with wherever the number lands as between the president and you here in Congress, we'll be able to deliver on the FCC's mission. And then uh finally, you mentioned roocalls.
▶ 0:35:39I I guess everybody up here is uh been the recipient of a number of cons constituent calls regarding ROOC calls. Why is it so difficult for us to be able to deal with this nuisance that continues to plague our country? Yeah, this is exceptionally frustrating. This is probably the number one issue that I hear about. We have a very significant war stream at the FCC and as you heard uh from Chairman Ferguson at the FTC last week. They're also working on it.
▶ 0:36:07We're going to continue to deepen that relationship with them. It's a challenging technical issue. Once you solve one issue in in terms of how these calls are coming in, it it pops up in another way. So, we're been doing a bit of whack-a-ole, but we're also putting in place a better technological system across the board. It's called stir shaken. It's a call authentication framework. There's some gaps, including because if you're not on a modern network, that authentication system doesn't work. But we've just sought comment on how do we deal with that when calls traversed old networks as well.
▶ 0:36:36And so, we're both doing a whack-a-ole approach, but also trying to put in a system level uh way of addressing it. And we hear loud and clear that this is what people want us focused on. Yeah. The the challenge we have now is that these operators uh are using local numbers so that when they show up on caller ID, it looks like a local call. And so the predisposition of the constituent is they want to answer that because it's coming from a local number.
▶ 0:37:02U but boy, they have figured out ways around uh our regulatory process and uh I know it's a work in progress, but I I thank you for being here today. No, thank you. We'll keep at it. You bet. Thank you, M. Mr. Wack. The chair now recognized the gentle lady from Washington, Mrs. Perez Glucen. Thank you, Chairman. Um, and thank you, uh, Chairman Carr, for being here today. Um, we were speaking earlier. Um, I know you have young kids.
▶ 0:37:30Um, just curious, how many people in this committee room have a child under three years old? Child, a child under three. And this is not a representative body, but I will tell you that that is a there there's a there's a TV channel. We've talked a lot. People talk a lot about Joe Rogan, you know, his shows. Like he has 19.8 million followers or subscribers on on YouTube. Coco Melon has 193 million. That let's think about that scale.
▶ 0:38:01and and these shows um there's there's very good data that the attention span the reg self-regulation of a child after watching and spending time watching these programs is devastated. This is like teachers are are saying that children are coming in less and less able to pay attention and to learn. We've had a lot of conversations about what is or isn't disinformation, but like at its core, the question is like can you hold can you pay attention to something? Can you can you follow a thread? Can you can you learn something worth having?
▶ 0:38:31And these shows are profoundly detrimental uh to our national health and and the and the long-term independence of our country. Um and so I I worry about the regulatory environment and the imbalance between the media that we see online and the media that you would see in public broadcasting and and the disadvantage and and how do we how do we get our way out of this? What what what are we going to do here? Yeah. Thank thank you Congressman for the for the question.
▶ 0:39:00Uh as as a parent myself of three relatively young kids, 11 uh eight and and five, this is an issue that I've been, you know, very concerned about as a parent and very focused on the screen time issues and what it does to attention spans. Um in terms of the FCC's own regulatory authority, there's a little bit less that we can do there. But one issue that we have focused on is we have a program that funds uh connectivity and tablets in many cases for schools.
▶ 0:39:24Um, and there may be steps that the FC can take there to make sure that there's appropriate uh procedures being put in place by the recipients of that funding. Um, and in the way that we rate like movies or or appropriateness, what is considered appropriate and marketable, is there is there anything we can do there on what is marketable to I I think that's a good question. You know, one issue that Congress is actively debating is updates to sort of child online safety measures.
▶ 0:39:53And when you look at, you know, apps in particular, how do we put better protections in place? And that's sort of an active debate in Congress. And I've seen a number of of bills on that that I'd be happy to to support and happy to sort of work on the issue with you on. I think it's it's um you know, it's it's the question of what what is worth having at the end of the day. Children who can learn, right? Um what they choose to learn and not what is fed, you know, to them. I um so I wanted to touch also on a um issue uh rural broadband access.
▶ 0:40:21Um, I get my internet from a radio tower at home. A lot of people I know where I live do. Uh, a lot of communities are underserved. Um, I happen to like, you know, that we we have a a good a good thing going with the local provider. But, um, what how do we more effectively deploy these dollars? What what is the FCC doing to ensure these these processes to build are simplified and accessible to smaller and local providers? Thank you for the question. There's a couple things we need to do.
▶ 0:40:47One is we need to continue to streamline our permitting and licensing process including at the local level where things can slow down. The federal government has its role to do as well. It's very difficult to build particularly on federal lands. But permitting reform is something that I want to work out at the FCC. Also, just freeing up more spectrum. As I indicated, our ability to free up spectrum for next generation 5G and 6G has lapsed at the FCC. But when you can introduce new spectrum, people can get and this maybe what you're getting is is fixed wireless.
▶ 0:41:16So rather than having to have a cable or a fiber provider come to your house, you can get it wirelessly directly from a nearby tower. We've got over 10 million households that are now on the internet that way. And when you get fixed wireless introduced into a community that for instance just had cable before we see something in excess of a 30% reduction in price. So getting more spectrum out there is important. The permitting reform is important. But I also think we need to be technology neutral. There's a very strong preference in some cases for fiber builds.
▶ 0:41:46I think fiber is a fantastic technology. I've been in the field. I've spliced fiber myself. I think maybe the lion share of connections should be fiber. But we need to be open-minded to this next generation of low earth orbit satellites to fixed wireless to 5G. I think when we make sure that all of those tools are available, we can bridge the dig digital divide faster and in a more cost-effective way.
▶ 0:42:06And what is your view on um you know when we have these public resources things that are supposed to be owned and in service of the public, how do we ensure in the long run that these systems can be owned and operated locally? Well, ultimately part of this debate is there's there's broad agreement on the importance and value of an internet connection. And to some extent then the debate breaks two ways. On the one hand, you can say it's so important that we have to regulate it like a utility because we want to have it.
▶ 0:42:33The challenge with that is when it comes to something like the internet that's so dynamic where we need billions and billions of dollars being invested repeatedly on quick cycles utility style regulation is the wrong direction for that in my view. So we need to have this light regulatory framework that incentivizes billions and billions of dollars to go into it. Thank thank you time.
▶ 0:42:52It's very kind of you and I want to apologize on the record because in the efforts not to mispronounce her name I screwed up the the order of that's my And uh next we have the gentle lady from Iowa, Miss Henson for questions. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um thank you chairman Carr for coming uh to testify before our committee and I'm really impressed with the work you've already managed to do in the first you know 100 plus days um and really excited about what's to come.
▶ 0:43:18And I just want to start off by following up on some of my chairman's questions on the rip andreplace program. Obviously fully funded uh last December. Um and I understand that those funds kind of began flowing at the end of April. Um obviously this is really really important for national security when you talk about the risks that the CCP poses. Um they're already in our networks and we know that. Um you talked about Huawei and ZTE and these these threats facing um many of our small telecoms.
▶ 0:43:45Um, and you mentioned you're 28% I think is the number you said uh done here and you expect to be done about a year from now. Um, can you just give me kind of an assessment in terms of what you're seeing in securing our networks there? Um, and are there any practical barriers um with providers that you're encountering when it comes to implementation here? Yeah, the largest challenge we had for the the longest period of time was was the funding shortfall. And since Congress was able to close that, u we've moved very quickly to allocate that funding.
▶ 0:44:14And at this point, I feel like we're on track now to meet all those marks. But to your point, more broadly, the threat posed by foreign adversaries and the CCP in particular is multiaceted. They don't just come at our country through one particular technology vector. And that's why we stood up a new council on national security at the FCC. We can see it through uh providers that we've kicked out of the networks before like China Mobile and China Telecom. We see the device layer as you noted as well. Uh as well as hacking instances.
▶ 0:44:42There's been, you know, wide reporting on the salt typhoon, cyber intrusion. I think the public reporting has linked that back to China. And so we need to be exceptionally vigilant across every single technology vector right now. Right. So you mentioned um those those operations by the CCP and you know obviously they're in our equipment which um poses a serious es espionage and cyber security threat um to our network. So what are you doing to strengthen the communications in infrastructure outside of rip and replace? Right. So that's that's one tactic here.
▶ 0:45:11Um, obviously there needs to be more that we're doing to ensure that our our communications are safe and secure in this country. One of the actions we're taking uh that we have actually teed up to vote at the commission level tomorrow morning is there's no piece of electronics that can come into this country without going through the FCC's equipment authorization process. And up to now that process has been limited to technical reviews. What spectrum does a device operate on? What's its power level?
▶ 0:45:36But increasingly to your point uh we're asking for national security checks as part of the devices that are coming in here. We've never actually determined whether individual labs that perform these checks for the US for any device are themselves trustworthy. And so we're adopting a new standard uh in a vote tomorrow that's going to make sure the labs that do the testing for the devices are not themselves beholden to some sort of foreign adversary.
▶ 0:46:00That's another sort of check that we're taking and there's additional actions that we can continue to take including adding new entities to our covered list um that we're looking at taking. What are some of the standards you mentioned that that kind of new approach to to accreditation so to speak? Uh what are some of the questions that you're asking of them to to certify that they are not beholden to someone else and are are safe to be uh issuing these uh clarifications for you? Yeah. Step one is to adopt that that standard that they be trustworthy actors, not beholden to a foreign adversary.
▶ 0:46:30And the different ways that could play out in application. We've already seen one. So for instance, when we started this process, we found that Huawei uh was operating a lab. And so we took action to make sure that Huawei labs are no longer part of the FCC approved equipment authorization process. So if there's entities like a Huawei lab that we determine has sufficient ties to the PLA or the CCP that are risky connections, then we'll now for the first time have the ability to take action. Is there a master list that's I mean are you compiling with working with DoD on this?
▶ 0:46:59I mean obviously they have their blacklist of of um companies and entities that are directly tied to the CCP. Are you reconciling with them to to do that? Uh well this actually a good question because it it ties into another item that we're voting on tomorrow morning uh which is effectively similar to a house bill called the fact act. And what this would do would bring greater transparency.
▶ 0:47:17So it would take every single entity that has an FCC authorization or license or approval that has sufficiently concerning ties back to China and it would or to a foreign adversary and it would publicize that list. And so hopefully if we get that item across the finish line we will bring more transparency. will publicize that list tracking the approach that Congress here has taken in fact act legislation um and that will shine a spotlight on some of these operations. Yeah. Well, certainly we want to make sure that um the congruency is there between agencies.
▶ 0:47:47If the blacklist uh at DoD has a company on it, you you certainly should uh be equally as wary as they are. Um but I appreciate uh the work you're doing. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Henson. The chair now recognizes a gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Bishop, for five minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, uh, welcome, uh, Chairman Carr in your first appearance as, uh, chair.
▶ 0:48:09Um, let me just ask you, uh, if approvals and enforcement actions have been conditioned on private companies DEI practices, uh, the public deserves to know how much of the agency's time and taxpayer funding is being spent on investigating uh, and challenging these practices.
▶ 0:48:29uh because this means dep prioritizing other critical objectives like broadband affordability um tribal broadband and efficient use of the spectrum. So can you quantify the staff and legal resources of the funds that you've al allocated towards investigating and engaging companies on their use of DEI policies? Can you can you quantify that? Yeah, thank you Congressman for for the question. I can work with the team and see if we have u any data available for you.
▶ 0:48:59What I can assure you though is over these first 100 days there's been no uh tradeoffs in terms of pursuing one issue set like this versus rural broadband or other issues. Would you provide us with that information? Uh I'll work with the team and see and see what what data we have available. Okay. Uh secondly, uh let me go back. you've been a consistent supporter of the universal service fund uh throughout your time at FCC and you know as well as anyone how important uh the USF is to keep America connected.
▶ 0:49:29When it comes to rural areas like the ones that I represent, uh USF is critical to help make uh the business case for rural broadband investment uh to sustain ongoing operations and to keep the rates for rural Americans more affordable. uh in your statement uh with the FCC's report on the future of the universal service fund, you noted the importance of congressional guidance and even additional authority in certain cases with respect to the possible use of USF reform.
▶ 0:49:59Uh we now have a Supreme Court case pending uh that could have significant implications for these programs and leaders in Congress have been considering possible reforms through individual bills and a broader working group.
▶ 0:50:13Consistent with your prior assessment, do you plan to defer making any material changes to the administration of the USF until Congress provides you with direct guidance uh on reforms to both the contribution mechanism and the distribution programs and until Congress also gives the FCC additional authority where needed? Uh thank you, Congressman, for the question. As you've indicated, I've had the chance to travel all across the country, including to to Georgia, to Alaska, to everywhere in between.
▶ 0:50:44I've seen the great work that America broadband providers do with the aid of the universal service program. To your point, uh that program right now has a a fundamental challenge to it that's before the Supreme Court. U in the main, we are waiting to see how that Supreme Court case plays out. And if there's a potential after that that there may be a need for additional congressional legislation, then we'll come to Congress to to address that issue. Okay. Uh thank you for that.
▶ 0:51:10Um the USF is increasingly under strain with the contribution factor nearing 37%. And the cost burden is mostly shouldered by elderly Americans. uh what steps is the FCC taking to ensure the long-term financial sustainability of the US USF supported programs like -ate and lifeline especially in light of increased demand and Aaron contribution base.
▶ 0:51:39Uh if the FCC is not planning on taking action on this, how should we in Congress uh reform USF uh to achieve the imperative? Yeah, this is a really important question that I think a lot of people don't understand, which is to say, we have all these universal service programs that we run out of the FCC. It's roughly $9 billion a year. But the way that $9 billion is funded is by a line item that's added to the monthly traditional telephone bill.
▶ 0:52:07Uh, and as you indicated, that can skew different directions in terms of uh the constituents that bear the brunt of that. And that number has now spiked to in excess of 30%. and it's really stuck in a death spiral. So, I do think we need to take some sort of fundamental action to address that spiking level of USF. Uh, one option is we're obviously increasingly getting more and more additional technologies that are filtering into the broadband ecosystem.
▶ 0:52:33And if we proceed in a technology neutral way now that doesn't mean that we don't have speed and lat latency thresholds that we set, but a technology neutral way above and beyond that, that could in the long term help drive some savings at least around the edges. Okay. Um, let me quickly I just have a few seconds.
▶ 0:52:50Uh, when you use taxpayer dollars to travel to Virginia State University in April of 23 and Jackson State in February of 18, two prominent H.B.CU, you gave speeches highlighting the need for workforce policies that would quote help ensure that all Americans have an opportunity to develop the skills needed to participate in the digital economy. End of quote. Would you consider that the use of taxpayer dollars to promote DEI efforts?
▶ 0:53:14And of course your term your usage of the term D as intentionally vague so it can be applied selectively based on what is personally or politically expedient. Uh no no cr I would not define those visits um as constituting any form of sort of invidious DEI discrimination. I didn't say discrimination I said The chair now recognizes Mr. Edwards for his five minutes of questions. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:53:44Chair. Uh, M. Mr. Carr, thanks for being with us this this morning. I went back and looked. There is an inspector general's report that was published in March 2024 and it offers an in-depth analysis of whether the FCC had implemented effective privacy and daisy data protection policies and procedures in accordance with federal laws, regulations, and policies with a focus on the FCC's implementation of requirements identified
▶ 0:54:15in the US code section on privacy and data protection policies and The scope of this privacy and data data protection inspection uh was from fiscal year 2021. The investigation found that the FCC had not implemented technologies to ensure that data privacy protections relating to the use collection and disclosure of information were sustained.
▶ 0:54:43These privacy data data protections should have included activities related to cloud computing, wireless access, public key infrastructure, cryptography, mobile and voice over IP devices. Personnel from the FCC office of the chief information officer stated that they had not implemented the use of technologies specific to privacy protection due to higher priorities. Higher priorities. Imagine that.
▶ 0:55:12and new agency initiatives that have taken precedence and a lack of expertise in this area. And as a result of those findings, the FCC Inspector General made only two recommendations. One, retain knowledgeable expertise in the FCC uh IT and privacy staff that would assist in implementing and sustaining the usage of required privacy protections.
▶ 0:55:37And then secondly to implement a baseline of technologies that sustain and do not erode privacy protections relating to the use collection and disclosure of information. I know the folks that I represent uh make it a very high priority that their information be protected especially in the dangerous world that we live in right now not only domestically but internationally.
▶ 0:56:05And so I'm just curious uh I would you even be aware of uh this study and what actions has or will the FCC take to deliver on these recommendations to improve data privacy as outlined in the IG's report? Yeah, thank you Congressman for the question. Two main points on that. One is a threshold matter. Doing a toptobottom review of the FCC's approach to IT has been one of the the very first things that we've been doing at the agency.
▶ 0:56:35Part of it goes to the contract review, but more generally, we're looking to uh revamp the agency's approach there. Second, one of the things that we've done right off the bat is to take up uh some backlogged recommendations, including from the inspector general's office, and start to knock out those. I know we've made significant progress on a number of them. Um, I want to go back and make certain that uh one of the ones we've made progress on is the one that you've flagged and and if not, we we're going to put the resources towards it to to doing it expeditiously.
▶ 0:57:04And so I'm really disappointed to see that a previous FCC had said that there were higher priorities. Can can you tell me what I can tell my folks back at home in terms of how the FCC is prioritizing their uh personal data to Uh is is this a higher priority today than it was back uh in this inspection?
▶ 0:57:31Yeah, I can assure you that this is a top priority for for us uh both in terms of the data privacy issues that you raised but also in terms of the agency's own performance. We need to have u the best IT systems. We need to make sure that they are looking to the future and not based on you know bespoke siloed technologies and this is a very very important workstream for us at the agency right now. How many how many people does the FCC office of the chief information officer employ? I'll have to get back to you with with the specific number on that.
▶ 0:58:01And would you know if that number has changed as a result of the Trump administration's workforce reduction program? I don't anticipate there's been any uh significant change um in that particular office, but again we can get you more of the specifics on it. And in your written testimony, you mentioned that the SEC's mission to eliminate waste and improve efficiency. Many of the savings have come from reviewing and modifying bloated and duplicative IT contracts.
▶ 0:58:29What steps uh did the FCC take to ensure that such changes to IT systems would not result in the compromise of sensitive personal information? We stood up an entire work group in the FCC that pulled from um various technical experts. We've also uh worked in conjunction with uh the official Doge group on some of these efforts. And that's exactly our guide star is to look at where do we have two contracts that are duplicative.
▶ 0:58:54Can we consolidate work under one, but there's obviously a baseline level of security and performance that we're not going to compromise on when we're making those types of decisions. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll yield. Thank you, Mr. Members, the chair now recognizes the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Ivy, for five minutes of questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. Um, thank you, Chairman Carr. Good morning. Appreciate you being here. I did want to follow up on some of the DEI questions that Congressman Bishop had raised.
▶ 0:59:24Um, you were sworn in on was it January 20th? You were sworn in? Uh, designated. Designated. Okay. Uh, and did you begin working at the FCC on that date? Uh I've been there actually uh believe it or not since 2012 straight with no break. Okay. Um and then on February 27th you sent a letter to Verizon um essentially accusing them of invidious discrimination. Do you recall doing that? Yes. Okay.
▶ 0:59:51And then you got a letter back from Verizon dated May 15 from their EVP chief legal officer um that didn't acknowledge or admit invidious discrimination but said that it had made some changes to its DEI policies. You recall that? Yes. Okay. And that was May 15th.
▶ 1:00:15Then May 16th um you issued a press release uh with respect to the Verizon Frontier merger. Recall that. All right. That's a yes for the record. Yes. Okay. And then the uh memorandum order and opinion was released that same day.
▶ 1:00:33And that day was when the FCC approved uh the request with respect to the merger that um I guess had been held up in part during this your determination with respect to the DEI issue. Is that right?
▶ 1:00:50Well, Congress, with to this transaction and all transactions, we run a normal course process at the FCC and we specifically have rules on our books that deal with EEO that deal with non-dis. I'll come to that in a second. But the the day after you received the letter back from Verizon, the FCC approved the request, right? Correct. All right.
▶ 1:01:14And in the order that you issued, um, well, first of all, in the letter that you sent, you didn't, well, let me ask it this way. Before you sent that letter, uh, essentially alleging invidious discrimination committed by Verizon, had the FCC done any kind of investigation with respect to, uh, any complaints of discrimination at Verizon that led you to to, uh, write that letter? What? As a general matter, two things have taken place.
▶ 1:01:44Not a general matter. Did you review any particular allegations against Verizon before you sent this letter? Again, Congress, there's two things that we're doing. One is when I started as chair, what we did is we ended the FCC's own promotion. No, no, no, no. I'm asking if there's a factual basis for the letter that you sent and if so, was it investigations with respect to complaints against Verizon?
▶ 1:02:11Were there any complaints that you reviewed that had been filed with the EEOC alleging discrimination uh against Verizon? Were there any court cases that you reviewed alleging discrimination against Verizon? Any of those? One of the things that we've been very clear about, sir, I only have five minutes. Did you do any of that before you issued this letter? What what I'm saying is we have a standard of non-discrimination.
▶ 1:02:39What I've made clear I'm asking if you had a factual basis for and the reason I'm asking is because when you allege invidious discrimination and the cases you cited, Supreme Court cases say that you have to have a factual basis to support the claim. and they're very specific about what those factual basises are. For example, suspect classification.
▶ 1:03:01Did you have anybody alleging racial discrimination uh or religious discrimination that you reviewed those matters before you issued this letter? Those limitations that you're speaking about apply in the context of those types of cases, but that's not the rule that applies at the FCC. The FCC discrimination rule. I'm just asking if you reviewed anything before you sent this letter.
▶ 1:03:26If you look at the letter, I did from Verizon, it walks through a number of practices, including practices that I was aware of when I sent that letter, but none of those actually admit, as we you just acknowledged, invidious discrimination, right? In fact, none of them actually deal with any of the suspect classifications like race, for example, that would be the basis for a finding of invitious discrimination. Let me move on real quick.
▶ 1:03:52In the order that you issued in paragraph 33, which is the only one that deals with the DEI issue, it references the letter that you got back from Verizon, but it doesn't state anything about any kind of factual basis that the FCC developed to support the original allegation that you made of invidious discrimination. If you'd had any evidence to that effect, would you have put it in the order?
▶ 1:04:16Well, again, I think what you're raising are are factual points that are relevant to like a 1983 action. Will you at least acknowledge the gentleman answer? Well, if I'll if I get additional time, I'd be happy to. You're asking us if we followed a process and a standard that doesn't apply in the context of the FCC. We follow the FCC's processes. The FC has non-discrimination rules on the books that are not based on you can make you can make an allegation of invidious discrimination without having any facts to support the claim.
▶ 1:04:46Yes. Under the FCC that is not true. Chair chair recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Alfred, for his questions. Might be a second round of questions and you can appreciate that chair. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Uh Chairman Carr, thank you for being here today. I applaud your efforts to hold the media companies that use our public airwaves accountable to the public law uh communications act of 1934 in particular.
▶ 1:05:15The concern that you've raised with CBS's deceptive editing and the interview with Kla Harris echo what I've seen in my 35 years in the news media using public airwaves to basically promote an agenda. Companies using public airwaves should be held to the highest standard of journalism and not radical left-wing agendas or play politics. Communications act of 1934 is very clear on this.
▶ 1:05:39Broadcast entities must operate in the public interest and it's not in the public interest to try to skew an election. I understand the investigation into CBS is ongoing. What can you say about the responsibility though in general of media companies that have a license? What is their responsibility to operate with truth and balance and objectivity? Yeah, thank you, Congressman, for the question.
▶ 1:06:04I think it's important to remember that there's a number of different types of speakers out there. When you have someone that's, you know, exercising free speech rights on the internet, when you have someone on a cable channel, but when it comes to licensed airwaves, to your point, they're differently situated. And the reason why is because when they're authorized to operate on the public's airwaves, uh, that necessarily is a decision to exclude others from being able to speak and use those airwaves. So, Congress has decided that they have an obligation to operate in the public interest.
▶ 1:06:34And I think over the years, the FCC has walked away from enforcing the public interest obligation. I think one of the key features of public interest that the FCC has articulated over the years is localism. And that gets us back to the conversation of how do we empower local broadcasters to be responsive to the needs of their communities. And there's a lot of controls that the national news media has been imposing on local broadcasters that are concerning to me.
▶ 1:07:00So I think that's where we ultimately need to go uh is enforce the public interest standard and make sure that local broadcasters are serving the needs of their communities. How do you do that? Because there's an imbalance in a lot of newsrooms in America. uh managers uh like to uh recruit people from diverse backgrounds uh economically uh gender, race. They don't do that when it comes to diversity in thought.
▶ 1:07:25And that is part of the problem where you have a kind of a rarified process uh where it's really driving an agenda from those in leadership at many of these stations. Uh there's also uh not a clear delineation in many products including cable uh what is editorial content and what is news content.
▶ 1:07:48How do we get I know there are first amendment protections at play that is first and foremost but also by using the public airwaves which we own. There's a responsibility there to operate in the public interest with truth and objectivity. How do we get that back on the right track? Yeah.
▶ 1:08:04One of my things I've seen is that again you have these national news programmers principally ABC, NBC and CBS over the years at that national level they've been exercising greater and greater control over the content that those local broadcasters disseminate. And so I think one of the most important things that we can do is to reempower those local broadcasters, make them feel like they have the freedom to respond to the needs of their communities. There's lots of ways the FCC can do that.
▶ 1:08:31media ownership reform may be a part and parcel of it, but I I we think I think we need to have those local broadcasters feel more empowered. Let's talk about the media partnership uh the the reforms that you feel need to be made in ownership uh that uh local media companies have, their availability to expand. Uh walk us through that. Where are we on that? You know, the FCC's regulations when it comes to the media space are, you know, decades and decades old.
▶ 1:08:58And they may have made sense in a world in which Americans got their news in two ways. Once when the uh newspaper clunked on the front doorstep in the morning and once at night when you tuned to the rabbit ears. But when you look at the information ecosystem that's out there today, um I think it makes sense to take a look at allowing local broadcasters to compete on the same scale and scope that their big tech competitors compete on. Um and so that's one of the issues that we're looking at. Another issue has to do with these affiliation agreements where the national networks affiliate with local stations.
▶ 1:09:28There's been all sorts of controls that are imposed on local operations through those agreements and that can raise concerns including, you know, technically what we call as an attribution concern. But but these are some of the issues that we need to look at because here's the bottom line. We don't want America's local broadcasters to go the way of newspapers. Newspapers shuttered by the dozen all across country. We need trusted sources of local news and information. And if we don't get our regulatory structure right, there's a chance that a significant portion of broadcasters could go the way of newspapers.
▶ 1:09:57You've hit on an important part. Trust. Trust comes from truth and truth is the only thing that matters. Thank you, sir. And I yield back. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Alfred. And I must admit, the chairman made me chuckle when he talked about rabbit ears. That brings me back as a kid standing in my backyard trying to catch dad yelling at you to try to, you know, move the rabbit ears around. Trying to catch the rabbit ears so you can catch the Browns game from Erie, Pennsylvania. Yeah. Uh, anyhow, the chair would like to recognize the vice chair of the committee, Mr.
▶ 1:10:26Loa for his five minutes of questions. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate the time. Uh Chairman Carr, you're the head of the Federal uh communications commission. Yes, sir. And you've been at the FCC since about 2017. Uh Commissioner since 2017. It started as a staffer back in 2012. Did I read that you were nominated by presidents of both parties? Was by President Trump and President Biden. Great. And the FCC's jurisdiction covers wireless and wire communications, both including landlines and cellular phones. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:10:55Um and scam calls, fraudulent calls made um with the intent to steal money, personal information or both are under your purview, sir. That's right. We have a significant uh work stream going, including that we're always looking to expand that deals with robocalls, illegal robocalls, other types of spam. Other agencies, FTC as well, have a role here, but this is a big piece of what we do with the agency. I I do want to talk about robocalls, but I first want to talk about AI generated impersonation scams, which are becoming increasingly effective.
▶ 1:11:25My staff's research says that many of those scams result in the loss of about $6,000 on average where the traditional scam calls are about $539 on average. Um what types, chairman, what types of AI scams uh are you seeing most commonly right now? So there's AI scams that come in two forms. one uh AI as a technology can be used for, you know, the the actually sort of generating these robocalls.
▶ 1:11:52Second, we're seeing AI used as the content on the robocall itself. The FCC at this point uh has made clear that the content of the robocall itself is not necessarily relevant to our determination. Um but the use of AI does constitute an artificial or pre-recorded voice which is the regulation that allows us to regulate it as a robocall. Okay. Um what's the typical demographic targeted by uh these scam calls and specifically the AI generated calls?
▶ 1:12:22Do they see you older, younger, geographically? What where would how would you describe the demographics of those who are targeted by these calls? I I can look to get specifics on that. As a general matter, you know, our sense is that the net is cast very very widely. it may, you know, snag different people in different ways. Um, but, uh, but we can look more closely at some of that data. Some of my research, anecdotal and and some more deeper, suggest that seniors are the ones being targeted more often. Do you agree with that instinct at least? Yeah, that would not surprise me at all.
▶ 1:12:50Um, and what is the FCC doing about these AI generated calls? Yeah, a couple things. One, we're always looking to strengthen our call blocking, our call authentication measures. We're working with the FTC, state attorney generals have also been involved and we are issuing consumer advisories when we see particular schemes that arise. Um, we'll warn the relevant community about the contours of that scheme.
▶ 1:13:17Is the FCC equipped with the tools, the authorities it needs to properly combat this developing scam? Yeah, I'm comfortable right now in terms of where we are. I think we need to ramp our efforts up. Uh, but I don't think that's going to require significant new expenditures at this point. What can the committee andor Congress do to help you in this effort? Chairman, you know, we're right now doing a top-to-bottom review and we'll come back to you if there's any gaps in our authorities that we need filled.
▶ 1:13:41Congress has been a great partner when there has been issues that arise that we need additional authority providing that to us. U one issue that we have always sort of looked at is on the enforcement side. The FC doesn't have independent authority necessarily to go to court uh to block some of this. So, let me take a look at that and see whether there's some some fixes we might need there. Should you have that authority in your Let me let me look and see and see how much of a block that's been. Um and then come back to you on that and we'll get back to you on on any broader reforms that we need as well. Okay.
▶ 1:14:11Switching from the AI generated calls to the rooc calls which are highly annoying to to many of my constituents. How is the FCC working with telecom providers and law enforcement to stop robocallers at the source especially those operating overseas? Yeah, one thing that we've done is we are continuing to grant carriers greater and greater leeway to block calls at the source to block calls when they start. We're also putting a technology across the board called the stir shake authentication framework to try to identify.
▶ 1:14:42We have a trace back consortium. So when we get a number, we now have the capacity to trace that number back to its origin. We've also been standing up a new process over these recent years where we are um effectively forcing providers that are onboarding illegal robocalls to kick them off their network a lot faster. If they're not taking actions, then that provider itself, even though they're not a robocaller, they've enabled the robocalls. We're able to take action on them quickly as well. So, we just got to continue to ramp these efforts up.
▶ 1:15:10The FCC is inherently a domestic agency uh principally but we do have you know uh a look at sort of international communications as well and a lot of robocalls are coming from overseas and there's been some challenges where we're upgrading our networks and our standards but you can lose some of the the identifying information when there's a handoff from abroad to the US but we do work uh with our international counterparts on these issues. Generally speaking, chairman, from where overseas are a lot of these scam calls coming.
▶ 1:15:39I think from all over the place, India is one that originates a lot of these. Um, but you know, it can bounce around Eastern Europe as well. Um, there's multiple sources of these calls. Thanks, Sharon. Hope we can stay in touch and you let us know how this committee and Congress as a whole can help you with the tools, the authorities, the budget you need to help you do your job. Thank you so much. Thanks. I yield. Thank you, Mr. Loa. The chair now recognizes Mr. Poke in for five minutes of questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Chairman Carr.
▶ 1:16:08Uh, we have another hearing next door. Some of us are bouncing back and forth, so apologies for not being around earlier. Um, I would like to just echo the importance of the CBRS spectrum that my colleague from Maryland um, highlighted that's currently used throughout my state of Wisconsin and specifically in my district by the University of Wisconsin's manufacturing research facility. So, um, it's crucial that we protect it. So, I just wanted to add, uh, that to the comments.
▶ 1:16:32I I am just a little more curious about um you know the direction of the agency and specifically if I understand it right uh you were the person who wrote the chapter in project 2025 that kind of directed the conversation about FCC is that correct? Uh I did I should clarify that that was done in my personal capacity so I don't want to mix it too much but yes that that previously that was the same person as me. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So um and did others help you with that or was that predominantly your project for the section on FCC?
▶ 1:17:00I believe there was a group I think there was a footnote early on uh I think mentioned some of the group that was involved in that but I don't remember specifically the names right now. So have you read it in project 2025? Read it the section on FCC in project 2025. Yes. Okay. So from reading it what percent of it is yours versus others. I think ultimately as the main author I'm I'm responsible for you know the content of it. There's I think a couple places in there where it notes there wasn't unonymity in the group but but as a general matter um I'm familiar with it. Sure.
▶ 1:17:29And were you compensated at all for that? No. No. Okay. Just curious. Um sad. Yeah, I know. Really? If you're ready all that, you got nothing. Um so what was your expectation of that project when it happened? Because I think you know a lot of us talked about project 2025 last year. A lot of people didn't pay attention to it. Now suddenly we're seeing it very much as a living document uh in what's happening. What was your expectation of that project?
▶ 1:17:57Since you did it not getting compensated for, I'm assuming you were hoping it would have high value. Did it meet your Well, look, I think chronology on on this one is important. I think I uh started this either in the summer or the fall of 2022. Okay. And so I understand that, you know, in the in the summer and fall of 2024, it it took on meaning and significance that, you know, sitting there uh in in the fall of of 2022 was not something that um I could have sort of predicted or thought about.
▶ 1:18:27Uh my understanding at the time was this was a a document that was put together every four years that collected, you know, various policy ideas that people could take or leave. And I put together some ideas there. In fact, one thing I was pleased by is some of the ideas that were included um in that chapter were ones that, you know, Congress ended up passing and President Biden ended up signing. So, I think it's it's been sort of, you know, characterized as sort of one one thing, but there's a lot of, you know, good common sense ideas in there again, including ones that that President Biden got across the finish line. Yeah.
▶ 1:18:56Would it be fair to say that if we were wondering what the department might be doing, looking at that plan is probably a pretty good roadmap for what we might expect from the FCC? Well, I don't I mean, look at at the end of the day, you know, the FCC is a multi-member commission. Sure. And the product of what the FCC does, uh, at least at the commission level, has to have, you know, the votes and represent the views of at least three u members of the commission. And so, you know, that's ultimately what, you know, the work product of the agency is going to be is the the consensus of those three.
▶ 1:19:24And as the lead, do you intend to try to guide it basically along the principles of what's in project 2025? I don't know about that. What it was your words you said largely. So I'm just kind of asking if it's a what I've laid out uh particular since being chair is the agenda that I want to run. Sure. And I think that's the best evidence of what I'm going to do. And so what I want to do is restore US leadership in wireless. I want to make if I could ask you does anything divert from what you wrote in project 2025 that you're leading on. It may be easier just for me to to walk through. I I don't know. I haven't I want to be duplicative.
▶ 1:19:54I guess if you wrote it, was there anything that you because it was written previously something that's different from what you wrote for project 2025 we should expect? It's been years since I've read that document. So I guess to some extent that's not the guiding document for me. What the guiding document for me is the agenda that I've laid out. So US leadership in wireless uh make it easier to unleash high-speed infrastructure builds boosting the space economy and I've you know acted consistent with that. I was down in uh Louisiana visiting global star satellite company.
▶ 1:20:22I was in Midland Texas visiting as space mobile. So securing US leadership in space is important. national security, consumer protection, you know, those are um the key pieces of the agenda that I've articulated that I want to run at the agency. Sure. And I'll just end with u you know, as one of the founders of our rural broadband caucus and obviously that's still a huge concern for in a very bipartisan way. We had so many people we had to stop at three co-chairs from each political party because people kept wanting to be co-chairs of it.
▶ 1:20:52So, um, anything that we can do on that front to help, there are laws like in my state that honestly make it harder because like where I live, I live in a rural town, 830 people, unless the one company that had jurisdiction wanted to expand, we couldn't go to the neighboring community and that was at the detriment of people who live in rural areas like mine in Wisconsin. So, you know, if you can keep that in mind as you're moving that agenda forward, more progress on this and I Yeah, I'd welcome the chance to work with you on Great. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you, sir.
▶ 1:21:21Uh I know uh there'll be great objection from the other side if we went for a second round. If we have to do it, if we have to do it, I'll recognize myself. Chairman Carr, as I mentioned in my opening, the FCC plays a critical role in expanding access to technologies and making services more affordable. Would you talk about how the build agenda and how you're working to modernize our communication infrastructure?
▶ 1:21:45I'll give you one very concrete example that I think is going to be really important and and frankly it's going to free up billions of dollars of new investment. So the FCC has rules on the books that force providers to continue to invest in and maintain these old copper line networks that maybe were the best thing out there in the DSL days, but now they want to shift resources to investing in new high-speed infrastructure regardless of the technology. We've had rules on the book that force them to prolong those copper lines.
▶ 1:22:12So, we are pursuing an agenda right now that's going to allow them to retire those copper networks, replace them uh with new high-speed infrastructure. That's going to be one of the the pieces that we do. Obviously, we talked about spectrum. President Trump uh just spoke yesterday on the vital need to maintain US leadership in wireless through legislation reconciliation that looks to freeing up at least 600 megahertz of spectrum. That's going to be a key piece of getting us building again is when you get these airways out there, you know, new antennas are going to go out, new infrastructure is going to go out.
▶ 1:22:43And then of course, we talked about the space economy so that we can continue to build there. Those are some of the key features of the the build economic agenda that we want to run. As the commission works to understand the current US GPS system and promote resiliency, how does the FCC reviews potential changes in spectrum policy that may affect incumbent commercial operations, particularly those US supply chains, logistics, and retail systems? Can you provide any update on the status of any related petitions filed under FCC consideration?
▶ 1:23:12Well, one issue here that touches on on GPS is uh GPS is vital to this country for our economic security, for our national security. uh it provides what we call pnt uh precision timing and right now it's a it's a great system but it's vulnerable because it's a single point of failure. So one of the things that we did early on was we're looking to stand up alternatives to GPS and there's a lot of different options that are on the table.
▶ 1:23:37It may ultimately be a system of systems but that's one of the more important things that we can take for our economic and national Thank you. Can can moving on a little bit? Can you discuss your approach to this new initiative of yours? delete, delete, delete. And uh potential impact on promoting economic growth and reducing government spending. Yeah, if you step back and look at the FCC's rules of regula, rules and regulations. It's codified in the codified in the code of federal regulations. It's a set of books about this big.
▶ 1:24:05And there's actually a lot of dead wood in there, including rules that were overturned by courts long time ago. U rules that regulate technologies like the telegraph in some instances that's not in use anymore. And so I think we've launched this massive deregulatory initiative called delete, delete, delete. The idea is from an engineering concept that the the best part sometimes is is no part. And we're looking at, you know, cutting back on the regulations that aren't needed. We've already started that process internally, having staff take a look at rules that we can get rid of. And we've sought public comment as well.
▶ 1:24:34And I think this is going to be significant because not only does it save staff resources administering these rules, but it's easier for providers to enter and compete uh when the regulatory system is less complex. Thank you. The chair will now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Hoyer, for his uh second round of five minutes. Thank you very much. I want to pursue a little bit uh what Mr. Ivy apparently questioned you about.
▶ 1:24:59I wasn't here, but I had uh in mind pursuing the frontier merger uh and how that happened. Uh first of all, what was the factual basis? And I think Mr. I started to answer this and and didn't have time to finish it. What was the factual basis on which you were uh talking to Verizon uh re uh their policies?
▶ 1:25:23Well, the letter that we wrote to Verizon itself lists through some of the evidence that was available at the time, including referencing and linking to whistleblower documents. And more broadly though again the FCC has a mandate to ensure in the first section of the communications act that these services are provided without discrimination. Similarly the FCC has EEO rules on our books that talk about non-discrimination. And so all of that together uh was the basis initially.
▶ 1:25:53But again what I've said across what I asked you I understand that language. What were the facts? What what something motivated this uh and that motivation went away as soon as Verizon settled uh with you on the DEI. Is that correct? Within three hours the decision was made that the merger is okay. You apparently said it went through the regular process, but there was no vote in the FCC uh on that issue, was there?
▶ 1:26:23Uh there was not a commission level vote, but the FCC has lots of precedents where we approve deals like this that but but there was no vote. There was no regular process in terms I of of of the voting to approve a merger, a relatively large merger 206, right? Right. I mean, I I would say that it it was not a vote, so I don't mean to like dispute that at the commission level, but I would say it was regular process. In fact, we have lots of precedent, including under Democrat leadership.
▶ 1:26:53We have large deals, including Altis Cable Vision, which was a $17 billion deal done at the bureau level. In fact, one of the prior Verizon Frontier deals, three hours between the time that Verizon uh decided to settle um and the decision being made by you. Yes. Yes. Was there any discussion with the non-majority uh members? The practice commission was fairly standard. You'll get these, you know, letters that come in, they get incorporated into the decision relatively quickly and then it goes out the door.
▶ 1:27:22All that was was fairly standard practice. Uh is it standard practice to go after? First of all, I don't think you've told me the factual basis of of your actions that were purportedly directed at Verizon for their practices on DEI. Is that correct or incorrect? Well, it I I know you told me the language uh about not discriminating.
▶ 1:27:52Right. Right. But very frankly, DEI is all about not discriminating because historically the DEI was based upon and I'm not defending every decision under DEI, but it is based upon inclusion and equity. Now, apparently equity is a bad word in this town now. It somehow applies that you're fair to everybody. Even if they're women or they're blacks or something like that, you're fair to them and you want to make sure that uh we include America uh in our processes.
▶ 1:28:21That did not happen for a very long time in this country. Period. This administration is doing everything it possibly can, not only in the government side, but on the private sector side of telling what they ought to do, telling them that they don't ought not to have a a program of making sure they have diverse diversity and therefore representation of all segments of the community or equity. then apparently they don't have to be fair.
▶ 1:28:51Uh and certainly inclusion that's terrible. One nation, indivisible, that's about inclusion. Uh so what I'm asking you, why should the government through the FCC pressure Verizon to do away with a policy they may well think is is its best interest and its customer's best interest? Well, I think whether you look at the communications act or the See my point. I I hear you.
▶ 1:29:18Whether you look at the the Communications Act or the EO rules, they they speak in terms of non-discrimination. And if you look back at one of the last deals the FCC did or one of the first deals the last FCC did uh under the Democrat administration was a Verizon deal. And in that decisional document that the Democrat commission voted on, Democrat-led Commission voted on, they specifically obtained commitments from Verizon to extend and expand DEI.
▶ 1:29:48And so sort of the concept that sort of looking at these issues in the context of an FCC transaction is not new to this decision. Again, the Democrat FCC included conditions they obtained expanding DEI and what we're doing is making sure that going forward we don't have discrimination so that to your point we can have equal opportunity, we can have non-discrimination. Again, um lots of definitional issues out there, but how do you define DEI?
▶ 1:30:13And that's why maybe there's been some concern raised about the specific terms that I've used in terms of invidious forms of DEI discrimination. What I'm focused on is if you're intentionally discriminating against people based on race, based on gender, based on protected characteristics, that's a problem. It's a problem under our civil rights law. The Supreme Court increasingly has been making that clear. And it's a problem under the Communications Act and the FCC's rules as well. And so that's that's what I'm targeting. If there's, you know, other non-discrimination practices that people are putting under umbrella terms, like, okay, that that's fine.
▶ 1:30:42But what we're focused on is an intentional discrimination based on race and gender or protected characteristics. Well, I think I'm sorry. Am I done? Yeah. I'm sure Mr. Ivy will follow up because he's been chomping at the bit to get back to. Right. Well, I'm I'm glad to yield to Mr. Ivy, with no time, but I have left yield. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Iowa, Miss Henson, for any further questions she may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:31:09And I think it's also fun to be up here on the DIS and have fellow broadcasters up here talking to um the FCC chairman. So, thank you again for being here today. Um, you know, I I want to talk a little bit about we we had the FTC chairman in last week, uh, Chairman Ferguson talking about their process of going through and kind of vetting regulations that are considered anti-competitive.
▶ 1:31:30And I think that's exactly what we should be doing is, um, re-examining any regulation that really hinders um, domestic competition and especially those that might be enabling businesses that are maybe subsidized by the CCP. Um, and that's why I'm encouraged to hear about your, you know, working with other agencies to kind of go through that list.
▶ 1:31:51But, um, can you describe to me the process that you go through at the commission for reviewing existing regulations, um, for the anti-competitive nature, public comments? Um, that whole process um, in response to you seeking comment about the deregulatory initiatives that you're taking. Yeah, thank you, Councilman. The the deregulatory work that we're doing right now, I think, is going to be one of the most significant steps that we take. We have this overregulation from Washington that just raises the costs, makes it more and more difficult for people to compete.
▶ 1:32:20A lot of people focus in the broadband area on the biggest providers that are out there. Uh but the reality is we have hundreds and hundreds of effectively mom and pop, brother and sister operations that are trying to bridge the digital divide in rural America. And there's just been this regulatory onslaught. So what we're doing is a couple fold.
▶ 1:32:36one, we set up an entire internal group that pulls resources from effectively every bureau in office, has them go through their component of that code of federal regulation and start categorizing rules that, you know, we need to get rid of, that maybe need some changes or one that look fine. In addition, we're seeking public comment as well. And ultimately, we're going to merge those work streams and make some significant progress getting rid of the the dead wood that's on the books.
▶ 1:33:02So, I mean, obviously in my district, I've got a small uh, you know, radio ownership group, Coloff Media, versus a big guy like iHeart, right? They're both broadcasting in in my district. How are they, you know, what's the process for them coming to you and saying, "Hey, this would make our job easier to again provide that service in in rural America, for example." Yeah, we're we're very open-minded. We want to hear from from everybody. We've got u some sense on the media areas where we need to do some reforms.
▶ 1:33:28Um but you know we would welcome the chance to hear directly from your constituents on these on these issues. Yeah, one of the things that we talked with the FTC chairman about was uh you know just having a website available for people to submit that and then they can go through. Is there some sort of similar platform for uh them to flag specific regulations that they want you to take a look at? Yeah, we have a a website. We have a a comment area where we can direct. We can make sure that we publicize that even more and work with your team on that.
▶ 1:33:52And you know, as you indicated and as Chairman Ferguson testified last year, when you have these regulations, if you're a big enough provider, that can be a moat and that can protect you from competition. And so maybe there's regulations that are fine for someone like an iHeart, um, but can make the difference between whether a small broadcaster can can stay in business, and we need to be sensitive to that, right? So, you talk about like the one-sizefits-all model versus being targeted in making sure those regulations hit where they need to.
▶ 1:34:16I think we can all agree there are some um some frameworks that need to exist uh to again protect some folks, but I think there are some that are clearly ill, anti-competitive, um and then create those unnecessary barriers. So, um what I'm hearing you say is that you're going to take that feedback and not only maybe look at what you can take off the books, but also maybe incorporate that into how you're making future decisions as far as as far as regulation goes. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, we're doing two things. We need to make sure that we have the right regulations in place including on national security matters on public safety matters.
▶ 1:34:46Uh at the same time we need to deregulate particularly where it's impacting uh competition issues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, Miss Hinson. The chair wait the chair. Vroom vroom. I'm sorry. The chair now recognizes the gentleman who's been waiting down there with baited breath for his second round of questions. Mr. Ivy from Maryland. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:35:10Chairman, uh I did want to follow up with you, um Chairman Carr, uh you you mentioned a moment ago, uh that they're I guess you call them Democratic FCC previous agreements, uh where these issues have been raised.
▶ 1:35:26One of the things I was kind of curious about, and I don't know specifically what matter you're referencing there, but when I was asking you if you'd looked back, for example, on uh court cases, there aren't court cases against Verizon alleging uh racial discrimination. Some were settlements. One's pending right now in the Western District of of North Carolina where racial and uh national origin discrimination issues are pending.
▶ 1:35:51And there was a big 2011 case against Verizon that they settled for, I think, $20 million of racial discrimination. And so when I was asking you about uh your challenges to the uh the DEI program that Verizon's put in place, I was kind of curious as to whether or not you had looked to see if any of that was based on the settlement or court requirements from some of those pending cases and settlements.
▶ 1:36:21Again, I think that the basis for the letter is is laid out there. I believe there's some citations in the footnotes. Well, in in the letter you you cite you just mentioned a moment ago that um you had some whistleblower documents that you relied on, but those only went to I guess it was a training class. So, and the the remedies that you talk about and that Verizon conceded went way beyond that.
▶ 1:36:46They went to hiring, supplier diversity, um, uh, corporate sponsorship and membership, public messaging, internal messaging, scholarships. So, the one point that you referenced, and I, that could just be a single document for all I can tell from your letter didn't go way into the scope of the remedies that you ended up extracting from Verizon in exchange for was it a$20 billion deal or a10 billion deal? Uh, yeah, there's been dispute about this in terms of equity and debt. It's describe.
▶ 1:37:16Let's go with 10 billion. Okay, that's uh big enough I think for for most people. That's real money. So when you allege invidious discrimination based only on that one training class uh and use it in a way to leverage or essentially block a10 billion transaction that the FCC ultimately held was in the best interest of the American people for a variety of reasons. That's a big step.
▶ 1:37:45And that's why I was asking whether there was any factual basis beyond this one whistleblower page that justified the FCC using that level of of its influence to block that transaction. Now, so far you haven't given me anything other than that. Is there anything else you want to add to it at this point?
▶ 1:38:06Well, Congress, with with respect, I think the points that you're making make a lot of sense in the context of sort of judicial litigation, the bringing of like a 1983 claim and there's a primmaache case and there's burden shifting, but the dynamic at the FCC is different where when we are I I get it because I I actually ran a small I ran a state version of you guys. I'm aware but I'm feeling it as well. You didn't site FCC cases. You cited the Supreme Court of the United States. Yeah.
▶ 1:38:33In the cases that use that case law like the Civil Rights Act that now you're trying to step back away from. And when you use that kind of language, it everybody would assume I certainly did that the constitutional standards you're citing are the ones that you're following and accusing Verizon of of violating. Let me ask quick because I'm running out of time again. I know I'm not going to get a third round. The Comcast case.
▶ 1:38:58So on the Comcast the you reference in the letter to Verizon that you'd already sent a letter to Comcast which I guess raised the same kind of allegations and that was in the context of I guess blocking a deal that they were trying to move forward with as well. You raised the issue of invidious um and demanded that they eliminate DEI programs. Did you do any kind of investigation with respect to the um application uh with respect to DEI?
▶ 1:39:29Did you check to see if there had been any complaints of racial discrimination or any any other type of discrimination whether it was with the EEOC or with court internally? They have an HR process where internal complaints can be raised. Did you guys look at any of that sort of thing before you issued that letter? Again, Congress, I think the points you're raising go to pleading standards and elements of claims that apply in a court case.
▶ 1:39:56But the and the reason I disagree is because you used those standards to justify blocking the deal until you extracted the the remedies that you wanted from it and granted the deal based on that. You didn't say in those letters or in the order for that matter, hey, we're just saying this is based on the uh the FCC act. You said Shaw v Reno. You said at a rand.
▶ 1:40:22You said Supreme Court case law that references the civil rights and goes to to the uh the Constitution. Last question, I promise. No, no, no, no. You get to answer that one. I'm sorry. Go Again, there are universal points in those Supreme Court cases. do not discriminate against people based on protected characteristics. That's a universal thing that is untied to sort of the specific pleading standards in this concept of non-discrimination is in the communications act is in the FCC rules and regulation.
▶ 1:40:52I think it's important that anybody that's you know regulated entity at the FCC not be discriminating based on protective characterist. That's why I was asking you specific instances of them committing discriminatory. now recognizes a gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Edwards, for his second line of question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh the other m Mr.
▶ 1:41:15Chair, uh the Secure and Trusted Communications Network Reimbursement Program, also known as the RIP and Place Program removes dangerous and insecure Chinese-made equipment from our nation's critical telecommunications In your written testimony, you mentioned that the SEC plans to use the proceeds from auctioning off uh AWS3 licenses to facilitate the continuation of the RIP and program.
▶ 1:41:45Can you provide an update on the status of funding for the RIP and replace program and the steps the FCC is taking to secure the necessary funding to continue its imple implementation? Thank you, Congressman, for the question. the uh FY25 NDAA gave the SEC a little over $3 billion uh in an effort to cover the shortfall that we had in the RIP and replace program.
▶ 1:42:09Uh in terms of the current status, the commission has now gone to the US Treasury and we've borrowed uh that authorized funding and we have allocated and made commitments to providers. As of December, we had roughly I believe 28% of the rip and place work that was done against again that was before the shortfall was covered. Now that the shortfall is covered, uh work is underway again and we expect that within a year from now, um essentially all of that work will be complete.
▶ 1:42:38Um all of the sort of the the priority one providers that had been in the program are fully compensated. We have one carrier left um that that currently doesn't have u full funding. what so which is that area that doesn't have full funding and what do you expect the request will be? Well, right now there's not an additional request that's pending. So, Congress allocated the $3 billion.
▶ 1:43:08Um, we had to borrow that money from Treasury. there's an interest that's charged on that borrowing and because of the the interest that we have to pay to the treasury. Um there's a slight shortfall that impacts one provider, but every other provider that's in the program, in fact, all the products that historically have been in the in the program um are now fully taken care of and you know, we're going to continue to work with that one provider and see what the options are.
▶ 1:43:34Do you expect that the SEC's fiscal year 26 budget request will include any more funding for the RIP and replace program? Uh ultimately I, you know, we'll wait and see where the president's budget comes out and and the decisions that Congress has made.
▶ 1:43:48Again, um all all providers except for that one, um would not need additional funding at this And in your written testimony, you stated that when you began your tenure as the chairman in January this year, 98% of FCC employees still routinely teleaworked using COVID error policies.
▶ 1:44:06As a result of President Trump's return to work policies, this number has drastically corrected itself to 92% of all FCC employees back to work full-time at the office. Uh who are the other 8% of FCC employees that are not yet required to be full-time back at the office? Uh there's some subset of that that were people that were hired specifically uh in remote positions.
▶ 1:44:34Um and that has stayed that they were never brought in to be uh DCbased workers. Uh there's some other percentage I believe that have you know reasonable accommodations, but we're continuing to work through all that and work on the numbers. When I started as chair in January 20th, um I try to walk the FC's 10 stories. I try to walk two two floors a day and when I started it was like tumble weeds going through that place. Uh and today I can, you know, report that it's a very very different dynamic.
▶ 1:45:01And what we're hearing from people is that being back in person, yes, there's a challenge with commutes and commuting hours getting worse in DC. I get that. but that there's a collaboration that there was missing that there were things that you wouldn't necessarily raise to a co-orker through an email or a phone call, but you bump into the hall and do it. That there's these siloed teams that we've had where maybe you work with your direct reports and that's breaking down as well.
▶ 1:45:22So, I think the collaboration that we're starting to see uh the culture at the agency and I I think ultimately the productivity is be much better from having returned uh people back into the building. I I appreciate you calling that out to this group. Uh this has been a debate for the time I've been here in Congress and uh that's one part of the argument that typically does does not make it on the floor. So thank you for that. Mr. Chair, I yield. Thank you very much, Mr. Evers.
▶ 1:45:51And chair now recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Alfred, for any other questions he may have. Bettton Cleanup. Thank you so much. commission has in front of it a petition that if passed would allow television broadcasters to finally upgrade from the current highde standard to a new better standard advanced television system committee nextG TV. Uh right now basically uh I can shoot 4K video on my iPhone but if I try to put it on broadcast TV the highest it can go out is uh 1080p.
▶ 1:46:20This would change that. It would give an immersive sound uh as well. It would also allow for broadcast spectrum to provide downlink data services to the other uh over their current spectrum. And it would also allow for the broadcast positioning system to operate on thousands of TV signals across the country and provide a needed backup for GPS for financial sector, the energy grid and a host of other technologies.
▶ 1:46:45My question is, do you expect the commission to act soon on the broadcasters ATSC 3.0 petition? Yeah, thanks so much for the question. I think this technology ATC 3.0, it's had different uh brandings over the year. NextG TV, data casting is really important. It's part of that broader effort of empowering local broadcasters because if we can let them innovate, if we can let them uh obtain new revenue streams, then maybe they're less beholden to some of the national news media that's out there.
▶ 1:47:15So, I'm very open-minded on this issue. I know a petition recently came in uh from a group looking to do this. I believe we've put that out uh for comment, but I can make sure that we've done that. And ultimately, we do need to get to a relatively quick uh transition so that we can have this 3.0 standard because to your point, this will open up business models for broadcasters, including for instance data casting. Like let's say you've got connected vehicles that are out there. You want to quickly and efficiently upgrade the maps that they use.
▶ 1:47:42Well, maybe using those broadcast towers might be the most cost-effective way to do it. So I think it's an important piece of the future of local broadcasters and it's something that I do want to prioritize. I know public broadcasting falls under the appropriations opices of labor H next door, but you you've previously stated that you don't see a reason Congress should continue spending taxpayer dollars to fund NPR and PBS. I know the president has an executive order pretty much cutting the funding. Uh proposed recision package is coming.
▶ 1:48:10How do you propose the FCC address the issues? What are the issues with PBS and NPR and public broadcasting as you see them and how do we move forward? For the FCC's part in particular, here's the issue. So, you've got these 1500 uh NPR PBS member stations. They're licensed by the FCC. So, as a threshold matter, they're in that bucket that we talked about uh earlier being licensed by the FCC and having public interest obligations.
▶ 1:48:35But importantly, these member stations are considered non-commercial under our rules, which gives supposed to be supposed to be which which gives them additional protections and benefits, the non-commercial status, but concerns have been raised that in fact these stations are running commercials and obviously by definition if you're a non-commercial, you can't run advertisements. And there's a line there where you can uh do sponsor identification and other sort of similar types of things. But the question that is before the FCC is, have they crossed the line into running commercials?
▶ 1:49:05And ultimately, I think that does tie a little bit into the broader debate in Congress, which is a debate for Congress about funding NPR. But if they're able to, you know, run and are running uh commercials, if that's what the FC investigation turns out, um that does raise additional questions about funding from Congress. But right now, we're focused on that question um about whether they're running prohibited advertisements or not. Well, it used to be growing up you'd see Masterpiece Theater uh underwritten by X Company. Now it's a full-blown commercial.
▶ 1:49:34If you're going to compete in the public marketplace with commercials, then compete in the in the public uh marketplace and compete for those advertising dollars. Last question, sir. Uh has to do with AM radio HR 979M. I'm an original co-sponsor of the AM radio and America made cars American AM radio for every vehicle act. I'm proud to say the F-150 built in Kansas City uh still has AM radio in it. It's very important especially in our rural areas.
▶ 1:50:03What steps should the FCC take to ensure AM radio remains accessible in vehicles particularly in our rural communities? You know, thanks Congress for your leadership on this. I think uh AM is a is a a vital communications technology. Um there had been concerns about EV makers dropping it based on concerns of whether the the the EV motors would interfere with it, but our understanding is that there's relatively inexpensive shielding that you can do that would solve that. And so I've been a big supporter of the legislation that you've been championing.
▶ 1:50:33I think it would be important uh to get that, you know, across the finish line and and and into law. Thank you so much for being here. I'm excited about what you're doing on the FCC and I look forward to uh getting truth back in journalism and um and uh really turning things around when it comes to the information systems we use on a daily basis. And with that, I yield back. That last question sounded like a little bit of an advertisement for your bill if I'm not. Yes, sir. It's a good bill. I would appreciate your signing on to that. You too, Glenn.
▶ 1:51:04I love it. All right. Good deal. Well, all good things must come to an end. Uh, chairman, with with that, our time has concluded. I want to thank you again for being here today. There may be some members who would like to submit questions for the record. Please submit any questions for the record for the subcommittee staff within seven days. The subcommittee stands adjourned.