▶ 0:14:19Good morning. Uh, in a strange twist of events and something that doesn't normally happen in the House of Representatives, we're going to start early. This is shocking and we have our people here. So, this subcommittee will come to order. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today to examine the VA's special adaptive housing, adaptive automobile, and adaptive sports programs to ensure these programs are effectively serving veterans across the country. I look forward to continuing the nonpartisan spirit of the subcommittee with ranking member Papus.
▶ 0:14:47Chris and I were just talking here about some stuff to ensure the VA's adaptive programs are modernized and work for the needs of today's veterans. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine how VA provides the special adaptive housing program, adaptive automobiles, and adaptive sports programs to our veterans. The special adaptive housing program or SAH plays an important role in providing customizable adaptions for severely service connected disabled veterans to adapt their homes to make them more accessible to lead their lives comfortably.
▶ 0:15:16The small but vital program provides these true heroes with the ability not only to stay and live in their home of their choice, but to continue to live more independently. Additionally, VA's adaptive automobile program provides disabled veterans with vehicle modifications. Through this program, veterans can safely operate their vehicle independently, hopefully getting back to the workforce and live fulfilling lives.
▶ 0:15:38VA's adaptive sports program serves thousands of veterans across the country and plays an important role in disabled veterans regaining their independence, bettering their quality of life, and improving their overall mental health and wellness. This program also provides opportunities for disabled veterans to participate in events such as wheelchair games, golf clinics, and many other sporting events that promote a healthy lifestyle.
▶ 0:15:59This Congress, my subcommittee, has championed key legislation regarding VA's adaptive HR522, the Deliver for Veterans Act, championed by my friend and great from the great territory of Guam, Representative Moyan, would cover the shipping cost of delivery, excuse me, of the delivery of an adaptive automobile. This legislation passed the House in April.
▶ 0:16:20Additionally, Representative Barrett is leading a bill HR1364, the assist act, which would provide more flexibility for veterans to access the specific adaptive automobile equipment they might need. Finally, Representative King Hines will have a bill on our next legislative hearing to enhance the SAH program, and she is from the Northern Marana Islands, absolutely beautiful part of the world.
▶ 0:16:42When President Trump and Secretary Collins stated that this is time to end the Biden era and make the VA put veterans first, these programs, uh, these are the programs we're talking about to improve veterans lives. Instead of focusing on political theater, which we're just not going to do here, and sound bites, we, me and Chris are going to lead this subcommittee to make sure that we accomplish the mission. And the mission is the veterans. It's not us, and it ain't the VA, it's the veterans. And I know that Secretary Collins shares um my sentiments, and I'm very proud that he's there.
▶ 0:17:12I look forward to hearing more about the VA's adaptive program and how the Trump administration plans to keep these programs moving forward. I now yield to my friend and ranking member, Mr. Papis, for his opening remarks. Thanks very much, Chairman Van Orton. The Department of Veterans Affairs offers programs for disabled veterans to improve their lives through housing, transportation, and whole health sports. These are earned benefits and programs designed to improve veterans overall health and independence. So, that's why I'm so pleased that the chairman scheduled this hearing today.
▶ 0:17:38One success story I'd like to highlight is New Hampshire's Northeast Passage Vetre Program, which is a nationally recognized nonprofit that has served more than 300 pre and post 911 veterans and service members with disabilities. Through its affiliation with the University of New Hampshire and partnership with VA and local VSOs, it offers veterans and service members in my state adaptive sports and recreation opportunities, including cycling, fishing, climbing, skiing, and countless other activities. I've seen the equipment. It's endless.
▶ 0:18:05Granite sters who participated in the NEP have reported improved fitness, decrease depression, help with pain management, and improve adjustment to disability. All of which supports their path to recovery. Just as important, the sense of community and fostering of long-term friendships have substantially improved their quality of life. NEP success is just one example of the critical role that VA's adaptive sports programs play in helping the physical and mental well-being of our veterans and service members.
▶ 0:18:32In addition to adaptive sports, VA offers a spectrum of adaptive services encompassing housing grants, vehicle modifications, and assistive technologies. However, further improvements are necessary to reduce significant barriers that impede many veterans access to these critical resources, underscoring the urgent need for legislative solutions to streamline eligibility, increase funding, and optimize delivery. To this end, this committee took bipartisan action in 2022 with the passage of the Veterans Auto and Education Improvement Act, which was signed into law.
▶ 0:19:02This legislation offered disabled veterans the ability to purchase a second adaptive vehicle. During a full committee markup earlier this month, I was proud to support the Assist Act to build on this legislation uh which passed the House earlier this week. The next step is passing Representative Sorenson's Autonomy for All Disabled Veterans Act to provide veterans additional funding for housing modifications. That legislation legislation is supported by PVA, who I know we'll hear from uh later to testify on the bill.
▶ 0:19:29Funding limitations like these constrain the effectiveness of VA's adaptive programs. For instance, the specially adaptive adapted housing, SAH, and automobile assistance programs are subject uh to caps that often fail to align with prevailing real world costs. Consequently, veterans with severe disabilities may incur substantial out-ofpocket expenses uh to facilitate necessary home or vehicle modifications.
▶ 0:19:52So, I want to thank Homes for Our Troops, which is an organization in New Hampshire, uh, and their fundraising efforts, which help bridge the gap between what an SAH grant covers, and the actual cost of constructing a brand new adaptive home. However, Congress must increase these caps and implement annual adjustments to reflect inflation and ensure that veterans can take full advantage of these important programs. As I mentioned earlier, adaptive sports are also an important part for the whole health and well-being of disabled veterans. Sports foster physical fitness and mental well-being by reducing stress and isolation.
▶ 0:20:23They rebuild confidence and reintegrate veterans in their communities. And adaptive sports must continue to be part of rehabilitation and lifelong care plans for veterans. To improve accessibility to these programs, Congress should increase funding for adaptive sports programs and grants that directly support veteran participation. Streamlining the process for veterans to access adaptive equipment and specialized training is also crucial.
▶ 0:20:44Congress should support collaborations between VA, community- based sports organizations, and veteran service organizations to expand program reach and awareness and ensuring that all interested veterans have the opportunity to participate. Lastly, VA needs to simplify the process for accessing these benefits. Veterans frequently encounter convoluted paperwork, inconsistent communication from VA offices, and ambiguous eligibility criteria.
▶ 0:21:08Congressional action could mandate a unified and transparent system enabling veterans to apply for multiple adaptive sports via a single integrated portal supported by case managers with specialized expertise in disability related needs. Insufficient outreach from VA also represents another critical area for improvement. Many eligible veterans remain unaware of available benefits particularly in rural and underserved communities.
▶ 0:21:33So, Congress should prioritize investments in proactive outreach strategies, fostering collaborations with VSOs, community centers, and healthcare providers to ensure that targeted dissemination of information gets to the veterans who are eligible. So, as I said, disabled veterans have earned these benefits through their service. I hope our work here today will identify improvements that we can all agree on to allow these veterans and service members that we represent to take full advantage of programs that will help them. So, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member Papis.
▶ 0:22:03I'll now introduce the witness panel. Our first witness is Dr. Rachel Mardle, Deputy Executive Director, Rehabilitation, and Prosthetic Services, Veterans Health Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Dr. Mardle is accompanied by Dr. Joel Schultton, executive director of physical medicine, rehabilitation services, Veterans Health Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs, and Mr. Jason Leona. Out of the three of you, you have the most easily pronounced name, sir. and you're a Marine.
▶ 0:22:31Uh, assistant director, loan guarantee service, Veterans Benefits Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I will ask the witnesses to stand and please raise their right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but truth? All right. The record will reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please be seated. Dr. Mr.
▶ 0:22:56McCard, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papis, and other members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss how VA fulfills the nation's promise to care for veterans through the administration of adaptive programs.
▶ 0:23:14VA provides specialty adapted housing assistance, home improvement and structural alteration assistance, automobile adaptive equipment, and the adaptive sports grants program to maximize veteran independence. Joining me today, Dr. Joel Scolton, executive director of the physical medicine and rehab service, and Mr. Jason Latona, assistant director, loan guarantee service, veterans benefits administration.
▶ 0:23:39The specialty adapted housing grant program offers various grants for eligible veterans and service members, helping them acquire adapted housing necessary to service connected disabilities. VA also assists if an adapted home is destroyed or sign significantly damaged by a natural disaster. The program is individualized with VA agents guiding veterans through the process to contact contract with builders of their choice.
▶ 0:24:06The program staff used their expertise in home adaptations to ensure projects comply with applicable statutes and meet the individual veterans needs. The program has approved over 2,000 grants annually for six of the last seven fiscal years and anticipates similar or higher levels in the future. VA is modernizing the specially adapted housing special adaptation system to enhance customer service.
▶ 0:24:32This multi-year project uses automation to streamline benefits delivery and improve oversight with enhanced monitoring from application to completion. The first phase of this modernized system is expected to begin in July of 2025. Individualized attention to each adaptive house grantee ensures oversight in fiscal year 2020. VA centralized financial management for the specially adaptive housing grant program. dispersements, eliminating thirdparty escrow agents.
▶ 0:25:02This change strengthened internal controls, improved project management, accelerated home adaptations timelines, and removed a $500 escrow fee for veterans. The VA home improvement and structural alterations benefit provides financial assistance for home modifications to eligible veterans and service members undergoing medical discharge due to permanent disability under certain circumstances.
▶ 0:25:25Home improvement or structural alteration projects are prescribed by VA clinicians based on clinical needs and are necessary for the provision of home health treatment and maximizing home accessibility. VA's automobile adaptive equipment program reimburses or pays for adaptive equipment for eligible veterans and active duty members with certain disabilities. The equipment is prescribed by VA physicians or certified driver rehabilitation specialists.
▶ 0:25:51VA is authorized to prescribe and reimburse or pay for operational and non-operational equipment. VA works directly with the VA VA does not modify, install, repair or replace such equipment. VA works directly with dealers, modifiers, and alterers to ensure all prescribed necessary adaptive equipment enable the veteran to safely drive or ride as a passenger in their personal vehicles.
▶ 0:26:16Examples of automobile adaptive equipment include loweffort steering, electronic controls, hand controls, wheelchair tieowns, vehicle lifts, and voice command systems. VA manages an adaptive sports and ecoin assisted therapy grants program to promote the lifelong physical and mental health of veterans with disabilities through regular participation in physical activity. Through this program, grants are awarded to non-governmental entities experienced in managing largecale adaptive sports programs.
▶ 0:26:44These grants offer opportunities for veterans and active duty service members to engage in adaptive sports utilizing skills that taught by VA clinicians and apply them in their daily life in their local communities. During the last nine years, VA has awarded over 119 million in grants through the adaptive sports grants program. In fiscal year 2024, 91 grants totaling 15.9 million were awarded, benefiting over 15,000 veterans and service members.
▶ 0:27:12In conclusion, VA remains dedicated to providing efficient, effective, and meaningful adaptive programs for veterans. Thank you for Thank you for your support and for the opportunity to speak today. We welcome your questions. Thank you, doctor. Uh your testimony will be entered, written testimony, excuse me, statement will be entered into the hearing record. Uh we're going to proceed to questioning. Everyone knows the deal here. We're doing five minutes.
▶ 0:27:38And I now recognize ranking member Papus for 5 minutes to question the witnesses. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for the testimony. Uh this is uh really an important subject here for veterans that I represent in New Hampshire and uh this is all about improving quality of life, uh giving them the best health outcomes, but also allowing them to live with the independence that they deserve. Um so I want to get uh to you first, Mr. Lona.
▶ 0:28:04I want to ask about the specialty specially adaptive housing grant program and I'm wondering if you can tell me more how veterans find out about this particular program. Uh yes sir and thank you for your question. Um so we have several mechanisms by which we communicate the program. We have outreach efforts um that cover uh from our internal system.
▶ 0:28:26So veterans once they're determined to be eligible through VA's compensation service, they're contacted immediately by a representative from the specially adapted housing program, they're also put on a uh automated letter um schedule where they'll get annual letters notifying them of their eligibility or remaining entitlement. We also work closely with other VA programs like my colleagues sitting here at the table to make sure they have fact sheets and information about our grant programs in case they have veterans who they feel would benefit from any of those programs.
▶ 0:28:54And then lastly, we work with external partners, nonprofits, veteran service organizations. We meet with them regularly as regularly as possible to make sure they're aware of the programs, too, so they can help steer veterans towards not just a special adapted housing grant program, but any of the other um programs that also provide the same types of features from VA. Well, I appreciate how you're getting the word out.
▶ 0:29:15Um, we have heard from some veterans that the process can take as long as 18 months u because of staff turnover, losing paperwork and some of the veterans who suffer from ALS or Lou Gerri's disease don't have the kind of time to get through the approval process and get the work done on their home. So, how is eligibility determined and how long does that process take? So, the eligibility process happens from VA's compensation service and I would say on average it's probably 3 to six months depending on the complexity of the case. Every veteran is unique.
▶ 0:29:45Their service connected disabilities are unique. Once they're determined to be entitled um and they receive their eligibility, that is when special adapted housing is contacted. And that's the point at which we reach out to them. And to your point as well, we also understand it can be kind of complex um having to navigate a recent disability as well as the paperwork required.
▶ 0:30:04So for veterans who have certain disabilities like ALS, we have an expedited process where we will focus on fewer serious adaptations rather than the entire project scope to try to speed along the grant approval process. Dr. Mardle, if I could turn to you, how do veterans find out about adaptive sports programs? We have focused on outreach throughout the last several years. There are several reasons, several ways that they can find out about our adaptive sports programs.
▶ 0:30:33At our national rehab events, we hold a variety of outreach opportunities such as health and wellness expose, informational tables at check-in for the events, educational sessions, and we encourage veterans to attend to learn about not just what the adaptive sports portfolio offers, but also what other benefits and healthcare services they are entitled to. They can. We also use um outreach through social media, VA news blogs.
▶ 0:31:01We have an adaptive sports website that's open to the public that we constantly update. We do emails to clinicians so that clinicians are aware of all of our offerings because the clinicians are our ambassadors out in the field across the enterprise who are letting their veterans know. We don't just target recreation therapists or adaptive sports clinicians in these emails. We target all of our rehab teams. so that all rehab providers are aware of what we have to offer.
▶ 0:31:26And oftentimes veterans themselves can be the best validators and uh evangelists for these adaptive sports programs to let their peers and community know about um the benefits of them. I'm wondering if you can talk about staffing and whether you feel there's enough staffing to support all of the programs and special events uh that VA offers. Currently, the VA is committed to ensuring we have enough staffing to have no impact on veteran care.
▶ 0:31:52Have have we seen any positions uh specifically related to adaptive sports programs be impacted by any of the the hiring freeze or any of the resignation offers to VA employees? Not to my knowledge. I would have to take that back for the record for Okay. If there's any more information there, we'd love to hear about that. How many grants uh were awarded and what was the total amount in uh fiscal year 2024? Uh just one moment. There were 91 grants awarded in 2024.
▶ 0:32:22The total amount was 15.9 million. Okay. And are you getting um annual reports back from all the grantees? Yes, sir. Okay. And uh one recommendation that came out of a 2021 IG report uh was on adequate staffing and we want to ensure that experienced staff are still uh providing the oversight. I see my time's up here so maybe we can have a second round but uh thanks very much.
▶ 0:32:53Too many buttons back here. The gentleman's time is expired and uh Chris, if you want to do a second round. Absolutely. We're we're here to make sure we get all the answers we want. Uh the chair now recognizes uh my friend, Miss Ramirez from the great state of Illinois for five minutes. Oh, excuse me. I I stand corrected. I now recognize Representative Barrett from the even greater state of Michigan for five minutes. But but not your great friend. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, appreciate it and thank you to our panelists for being here today.
▶ 0:33:23Um appreciate the uh work that you put into this. Uh I did have a few questions for you. Um Dr. McGardle, um we've heard from I've personally heard too from some of the um automotive adaptive equipment providers that the VA has been delayed in rendering payment for already approved adaptive equipment uh for veterans that are seeking uh to, you know, certainly have that provided. I've heard it can even take more than six months to pay a provider back.
▶ 0:33:50And again, these are things that have already been approved through the VA. Um, but the actual final payment to the vendors is taking a substantial amount of time that can really impact their ability to, you know, run their businesses effectively. Uh, can you give me an update as to why that is taking place and what we're doing to correct The automobile adaptive equipment program is a joint program that collaboratively VBA and VHA work together. I'm going to defer to my colleague Mr.
▶ 0:34:20Latona to start off. Sure. And thank you for your question, sir. Um, as Dr. McCardall stated, the the process begins with the veteran being rated. That's a VBA process after which it turns over to VHA who determines which type of equipment they specifically need and they're going to prescribe. And then it comes back to VBA for payment. And as far as the payment goes, um the uh the payment process is not a national process currently within VBA. So local offices hand in themselves.
▶ 0:34:49We are aware that there is a number of people uh of vendors who've claimed the late payments. We haven't gotten that data, but we're looking forward to looking at it and being able to address it at that point once we have cases that we can dig into. Sure. I've um you know I've heard that VA is like well we haven't seen that and and maybe it's anecdotal here and there but I've had providers show me a list of pretty substantial delayed payments that is not a one and two off situation.
▶ 0:35:16I think I heard that there were a multitude of instances where this was happening and it was taking more than 6 months on average to to process payment sometimes far longer than that over 200 or 250 days even. That's very hard for those vendors to continue to offer that service.
▶ 0:35:34And the concern that I have is that they're going to no longer contract with the VA for that and that will lead to a scarcity of available vendors and veterans will have to go farther and search harder to find one that will accept their um their VA uh benefit. So, it's something that I think we need to fix. Um is there a single point person that would be responsible for correcting this? There's there's currently a uh an IP, integrated product team that's put together to actually investigate this exact problem. Okay.
▶ 0:36:04So, there's leadership from VHA and from VBA getting together to discuss it and come up with resolutions. We'd love to follow up with a report. And who's in charge of that team? Uh that that team that you described. I'm not sure who the specific point person is, but several leaders across both, but we can provide you that information as well after. Okay. I what I don't want is for this to just be like, you know, six people are in charge of it and no one's really in charge of it and then it kind of everybody, you know, doesn't have ownership.
▶ 0:36:31Um, so if there's a specific person that is responsible for this, I feel like that would help work through some of the challenges that they're that that exist. Um, so if there's a way to, you know, identify whom that person or whatever role that is to really figure out a way to work through this, that would be something that I think would be useful. I think it's fair. You know, we provide this for veterans as we should.
▶ 0:36:53It's an expectation that we have, but then on the other end of that, there's a vendor that builds that equipment that needs to have that payment to make their own payroll and pay their own, you know, overhead as well. And we're going to lose that that vendor relationship with the VA. And ultimately veterans are going to suffer if it goes too far that way. Right. Sir, I agree. And yeah, these are trusted partners of ours. They're not uh we do not want to take advantage of them. We need to pay them for the service that they're providing fairly. Right. And that's the intention of the IP and we'll definitely be able to provide you specific names.
▶ 0:37:23Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. And if we can meet with that team, I'd like to just hear about their progress and what they're doing and really stay on top of this. So, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The gentleman yields back. And now I recognize my dear friend uh Mr. Ramirez from the great state of Illinois. The greatest. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. That's not true. Uh I want to thank the witnesses for being here with us today.
▶ 0:37:48Uh last week I had a chance to ask Secretary Collins about his commitment to serving all our veterans, not just the ones administration may recognize worthy. I also asked him how he intended to continue providing services to veterans after the dismantling of offices like the office of equity assurance and programs that serve diverse veterans. My questions went mostly unanswered. In fact, on the record, he stated that the VA workers, many of whom are veterans, who followed his directives, were maliciously compliant.
▶ 0:38:20blaming workforce, cutting services, and drastically limiting programs veterans can access is to me a page out of the must Trump administration. I think it's really important to say on record all veterans still face barriers to accessing housing, healthcare, and basic support. And it's why this committee hearing is so important. The providers in their services aren't just under strain. They're being actively undermined by their leader and then blamed on systemic shortcomings.
▶ 0:38:48Unfortunately, one of the programs at risk due to the VA's leadership and decision-making is the specially adapted housing program. And as you just SAH veterans who need accessible homes, those with serious injuries and life-changing disabilities shouldn't be facing delays or administrative confusion. So, Mr. Latona, my question is for you. Do you currently have enough staff in place to process SAH grants and carry out timely inspections? Yes or no?
▶ 0:39:21I would answer that question by saying the department is following all core orders regarding um staffing reporting on staffing. Ma'am, so you would say you do have enough staff right now to process the grants. I would say that the um our mission is critical and uh we will never have enough staff in my opinion. We always need more staff to perform this critical mission. And Mr. Latona, is the staff training for that staff consistent across the board? Is it pretty much the same uniformity and training? We have national training for all agents.
▶ 0:39:50The the um it is a very complex job. U our especially adapted housing agents need to be counselors and they need to be wellversed in construction and all different kinds of elements. We spend a lot of time with veterans in their homes. We have to have sensitivity training as well. Um so we do have national training. The the most effective training we get is our on the job training with more senior level employees. Got it. And so just follow up on that understanding the comprehensive approach and spectrum and the training.
▶ 0:40:18Can you tell me who in the VA is responsible for delivering the training itself? Uh yes, the uh individual operations uh assistant directors across the country uh deliver the training locally and then we have a deputy director in loan guarantee service who is in charge of operations who's overall in charge. So the deputy director is overall responsible for the training housing staff. Okay. So we all agree that balanced budgets are important. So, Mr. I want to talk a little bit more about this.
▶ 0:40:45How does the VA calculate the amount of amount of each SAH grant? Let let me follow with the second question because I know I'm limited on time. When determining grant amounts, does the VA account for inflation? Uh yes. So, uh we have several mechanisms that we use. We have the cost of construction index that we're authorized each year based upon the industry's performance of construction. were able to raise the grant amounts to kind of keep pace with the uh with the cost of construction and cost of industry.
▶ 0:41:12We also implemented the Ryan Cools Act recently which increased grant amounts and also provided a bunch of other very essential benefits for these veterans. So, uh we do track that and we're doing our best to keep up with it. Right now, our SH grants, the maximum grants cover about 20 25% of the average cost to house. Got it. So, what about other rising costs like labor shortages or tariffs?
▶ 0:41:34Has the VA elevated concerns about how broader federal policy like arbitrary tariffs or rolling back labor regulations or immigration crackdowns can affect some of the construction costs for adaptive housing? Well, from from our role, the increased cost of labor and materials has a significant impact on the ability of the veteran to stretch their grant funds, which is really what we're trying to do. Got it. Once we identify what the veteran needs, we want to pay for all those if possible. We also have the ability to stack different benefits.
▶ 0:42:02the the VR housing adaptation grant and the SH grant can be used together if needed to help stretch those funds. I just got 30 seconds. So, let me just uh transition really quickly. I want to talk to you a little bit about vehicle adaptation benefits. Uh and this could be for Dr. Mardo or Dr. Schultton, whoever is best positioned.
▶ 0:42:20How many pe how many adaptive vehicle applications does the VA receive annually and how long on average does it take to determine I believe that question should be directed to Mr. Latona. Right. I think Lona. Thank you. I think it falls within the scope of the Veterans Benefits Administration who determines eligibility. So, how many applications annually?
▶ 0:42:41Um I have to take that back and find out exactly how many numbers, but I do know that we delivered um over,040 adaptive equipment grants last year and 62 in general's time is expired. If I can just have it for the record if I can get that information. 100%. And we're going to do a second round too. Perfect. Thank you. You're welcome. The general lady yields back. The chair now recognizes a very good friend from the great state of Arizona, Mr. Wesley. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for coming today.
▶ 0:43:11Primary purpose of the VA is to ensure veterans are not only receiving benefits on health care when they need it, but to ensure their quality of everyday life can also be improved. So, thank you for for the work that you do there. Now, a question here, uh, Dr. Mardo, right? Did I get that right? Okay, close enough. Please uh correct me on that one. I want to get it right.
▶ 0:43:36Uh in your testimony, you mentioned the special adaptive housing grant program has approved more than 2,000 grants, grant awards annually in six of the last seven fiscal years. What do you attribute to the higher usage of this program and and do you think this will continue? I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Latona. Okay. Thank you for your question, sir. Yeah, definitely. It's true. Yeah.
▶ 0:44:04Um, so in fiscal year 24, we approved over 2,300 grants, over $150 million. Um, 96% of those were our larger grant called the special adapted housing grant, $121,000. As far as the volume goes, one of the reasons I think is outreach. Um, we have word of mouth is uh very popular against our among our veterans. So once they find out you can get a grant, I would say um they'll share that information.
▶ 0:44:27But I would also say these partnerships that we have with our other VBA programs like my colleagues here at the table and the folks who are going to be on this next panel, our nonprofit partners, VSO partners, they spend a lot of time performing outreach and helping to carry the water for us to our veterans. Excellent. Thank you for that. Now, do do the programs you oversee interact with uh or serve veterans experiencing Not directly. Um veterans for our program will usually either own a home or be residing with a family member.
▶ 0:44:58Okay. Are do you think there are some opportunities for partnership with other VA services agencies or even the private sector on this? Definitely we uh we we partner with many programs within VA um many folks who are here today uh to make sure that we're providing comprehensive benefit. We we understand that these are lifelines to a lot of veterans and a veteran who's coming to especially adapted housing for a housing adaptation may not know about the automobile grant or may not know about another grant.
▶ 0:45:25So we try to make sure we spread the word of all those and we're ambassadors for all the programs in VA when we meet with them. Do do you have any any example you can give me on how that is working in terms of the partnerships with with uh local agencies or or even the private sector? Um maybe you know a good model that is working somewhere that that we could replicate somewhere else. Absolutely. We'll we'll pull an example out of someone who's on the second panel.
▶ 0:45:50The Homes for Our Troops nonprofit organization um provides homes for veterans who've been uh injured following 2001. In order for those veterans to be able to get that benefit from Homes for Our Troops, they need to be eligible for specially adapted housing. This requires us to work together. We review house plans to make sure that their home plans meet the requirements so we can expedite grant delivery. And where is this happening? All across the country. All across the country.
▶ 0:46:14Any Arizona uh uh good examples you could point me to so that I can We have many grants in in Arizona. I don't have any in front of me right now, but I can definitely provide examples. Yeah, we'll love to get that just just to know what's in our community and in my district specifically in CD6 and we can love to go and and uh pay more attention to that. uh and and go see it.
▶ 0:46:37Uh can can you uh with the time I have left here, can you explain what the VA is doing to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse and and specifically in the SAH program to ensure that severely disabled veterans are getting what they need and bad actors are not taking advantage of the program? Definitely. And thank you for that question. That's that's a very important area too. So one of the big steps we took recently was to remove third part third party escros.
▶ 0:47:01So, what happens when a veteran receives their grant, um, a third party escrow company or the VA would hold on to the money and disperse the funds as the project was completed to make sure that we weren't paying for work that wasn't completed. So, rather than having third parties do this, which sometimes led to some funds being dispersed too quickly before work was done, and then we would have to try to recoup those funds, what we're doing now is VA holds those funds. We require a letter of satisfaction from the veteran and we perform a compliance inspection before any funds are dispersed. That's interesting.
▶ 0:47:30So, so who were these third parties doing this Third parties. It was the veterans choice. Veterans was able to choose whatever attorney or bank they wanted to use and they would usually be charged a fee. So, this change also reduced that eliminated that fee. So, so less money flowed down to the final purpose with with all the different steps on that. And with the little time I have left here, 15 seconds.
▶ 0:47:53um with uh did did bringing this back in house did that add a additional staff member within the the VA network or h how did that impact No, we performed with the existing staff. Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yel back. Gentleman's time is expired. The chair now recognizes my friend Mr. McGarvey from the great state of Kentucky. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you and I want to thank everyone who's here today for taking the time to dig into this really important issue.
▶ 0:48:20Uh this is something that enables our veterans to live full lives, complete lives, happier, healthier lives. Uh it gives them that sense of purpose that they so desperately oftenimes need as we talk about in this committee. Um Dr. Mardle, I want to start with you a little bit. And the VA is special. VA is special because its mission is to serve veterans. It's to make veterans lives better. It's not for profit. It's for our veterans.
▶ 0:48:48And as a result of that, we get amazing results coming out of your office. Uh the artificial limbs you all are making, the wheelchairs that are built for speed and for maneuverability, the tactile devices for visually impaired athletes. These are so important. They're not just meeting our veterans and our veteran athletes where they are. They are making their lives better. These devices provide purpose. They provide activity. They provide community and belonging.
▶ 0:49:16And our veterans shouldn't lose that just because they lose part of what they had before they entered the service. Adaptive sports are so incredibly important. We got to see it firsthand in Louisville. Uh this year in February, Louisville hosted the annual wheelchair rugby invitational. There were 20 teams all over competing in a roundrobin style tournament to to get the prestigious code of honor cup.
▶ 0:49:46This was more than a display of athleticism. This was determination. This was joy. This was happiness. This was belonging. And it is something that our veterans need. Need uh not just something they want, it's something they need. So want to talk about this.
▶ 0:50:04What kind of technological innovations is your office investigating or investing in right now for the next generation of adaptive equipment to keep going forward to keep our veterans having the sense of purpose and belonging? And are you able to partner with any outside researchers or manufacturers in that work? Thank you for your question. It is a very exciting area for us as well and we feel just as passionately about it as you do. I'm going to defer the question to my colleague Dr. Scolton.
▶ 0:50:32Yeah, thank you for your your question and also your enthusiasm. We've as a rehab provider, I feel that adaptive sports and any efforts we can uh provide to help veterans reintegrate into their community is essential in not only their rehab plan but their wellness plan. Our um the adaptive sports program partners very closely with our clinicians throughout the throughout our system of care.
▶ 0:50:54And so uh relying on those clinicians to stay advanced or up to date with any technological advancements in prosthetic uh development uh training opportunities through physical therapy and uh physsiatry and um additionally pain management techniques that allow veterans to function at a higher level.
▶ 0:51:14Um we have a very robust research portfolio within VA that looks at a variety of muscularkeeletal issues as well as traumatic brain injury and amputation related research that help to continually push forward advancements to uh enhance veterans recovery and I think you know innovation is is key all over the VA. Uh we have to continue to innovate to find the best treatment and care for our veterans and we have the opportunity and the ability to do so.
▶ 0:51:42Um, are you all partnering with any outside groups really to kind of to help with this effort as well? Um, we're partnering with a number of academic institutions uh through our research grant portfolio to connect with the brightest minds across the country uh to further investigate technological advancements. In addition, we partner with our VSO partners to uh include uh greater uh participation and awareness of these events.
▶ 0:52:12Um and then we stay um try to stay aware and open for innovative ideas from our um vendor the vendor community throughout the country to better understand any new advances that might be coming down the pipeline. Got it. And and we want to keep working to make that innovation possible. So switching gears, let's talk about the volunteer transportation network for just a second. Uh 2024 GAO report shows a 50% decline in rides provided to medical appointments for veterans. Uh partly in part because the number of volunteers is decreasing.
▶ 0:52:43Um what is VA doing right now to replenish its volunteer base and increase the use of this program getting our veterans where they need to go. I'm going to have to take that one back for the record and get you some more information on that. Perfect. Got it. And with that, I'm out of time. And Mr. Chairman, I yield back. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Um, okay. I I just have some real serious like basic rubber meeting road questions here.
▶ 0:53:14Uh, this subcommittee is also responsible for the transition program. And it's just baffling to me that any veteran, especially someone that's being medically discharged, is unaware of these programs. I mean, that is That is a galactic failure. So, we're going to fix that. Um, this these programs will be introduced into the TAP program.
▶ 0:53:44And for someone not to have thought of this earlier is shameful. Um, I don't want anybody leaving the service. And ma'am, you said that, you know, people are being discharged and they still don't know about these things. And sure, it's great peer-to-peer veteran talking to veteran saying, you know, these programs are available, but but no, Dr. Shelton, how long you been at the VA?
▶ 0:54:13Um, I've been working for the VA for 27 years. Dr. McCardle, I started as a trainee 30 years ago. Mr. Lona, seven years, sir. Seven. So, we got roughly 60 years worth of experience at the VA and no one thought about talking about this in the TAP program. Okay. We will do better. Um, Mr. Barrett brought up some very salient points about payment.
▶ 0:54:42Um, we had one dental clinician in the network for community care. I went there. It's an hour drive. It took the VA so long to pay him that they dropped out. Mr. Lona, we're not going to look into this anymore. We're not going to have meetings. We're not going to coordinate. We're not doing any of that. I'm going to this uh I request unanimous consent to enter this into the record. Hearing no objection. So ordered. All right.
▶ 0:55:12So, I'm going to give you these things and you're going to take them back to the office and you're going to look into them and you're going to pay these people and I am and I'm sure Chris is we haven't talked about it before. We can I speak for him possibly. We're willing to accept some risk um because if you can't figure out how to pay somebody um they're going to leave and that what Mr. Barrett said will come to fruition.
▶ 0:55:41And then my Marine brother back there who was grievously injured in combat outside of Balad, right? That's right. 2005, won't be able to get his house fixed or his vehicles fixed because of administrative inertia. So going to give this to you. I'm also going to send a note to the secretary. So with 60 years of experience, you can figure this out. It's literally signing a check. So, Mr.
▶ 0:56:10Lton, that's not a question. I'm just telling you what's going to happen. Yes, sir. Thank you. Um, you said, Mr. Ltona, that there is an expedited process for people with ALS and some other things. What is that process? Uh, yes, sir. Uh, thanks for the question. So, with most projects, we um we walk through a a tighter scope of a project. Veterans will usually have a little more time. They'll want to take time to find a builder that they want to work with. We enable them to do that. And then we help facilitate that conversation to identify which adaptations they might need.
▶ 0:56:41Okay, Mr. Mr. Latona, stop it. Okay, there should be no expedited process. Every process should be expedited. So just because a veteran is not going to die within two weeks doesn't mean you should not be running down the road at 1,000 miles an hour to get that fixed. And it's within your power. like it's something you can do and you need to do it.
▶ 0:57:09So the average time is what? From the time someone's to to their home is a place where they can live. What's the average time? Sir, I'm not aware of that time, but I know from application to delivery um could be somewhere between 6 to 12 months for special cap housing projects. Right. So TAP is supposed to be done 6 months prior and then iterative. So why didn't that application process start while they're still in the military? Can you answer that question?
▶ 0:57:39Well, we do work closely actually with with the services and and wounded warrior programs. When we're identified, that's a civilian organization, sir. You're you're the No, no, the uh I'm sorry. The uh within the service, each each service has their own wounded warrior program within them. That's who we work with. Not the wounded warrior project. Okay. We're we're going to do a second round and I will adhere to my own rule. Uh my time is about to expire and the chair will now recognize ranking member Papus for five minutes. Thanks. Uh Dr.
▶ 0:58:08Mardle, if I could go back to you. We were uh in the middle of a discussion when I ran out of time before, but I just wanted to I was highlighting this 2021 GAO um uh report um which talked about adequate staffing levels and uh they specifically cited needing more staff with grant management experience. And I'm wondering if you could speak to where we are today. Um because what we've been hearing is that uh based on this report, we were underststaffed in 2021.
▶ 0:58:37Um and that um we are less staffed today. Can you speak to that level of staffing specifically to people with grant management We have made a lot of progress on a lot of the recommendations that were recommended in that 21 report. Is that what we are referring to? Yep. Thank you. Um, in terms of getting all of the recommendations closed, that report has been closed.
▶ 0:59:03We have we do have a limited number of staff within the grants program, but the department is committed to ensuring that there is no interruption in services provided to the grantees or to veterans who would be utilizing those grant programs. Can can you define better making progress? I know you spoke about the recommendations in the report, but specifically as it pertains to staffing, where are we today versus when that report was issued?
▶ 0:59:34I would have to take that for the record. Okay. Can you give us the assurance though that VA currently has adequate staffing with respect to being able to properly monitor these grant programs? Yes, sir. And and just going back to what you had told me before, I asked you specifically whether positions um in adaptive sports have been impacted by the administration's hiring freeze or the offer for people to uh resign.
▶ 1:00:03Uh you said you didn't believe that any were impacted. um just talking more with staff uh in the intervening uh time u we have heard from groups that have told us that um there are position there are people that have left their positions that uh support adaptive sports. So I'm wondering if you can provide any additional clarity now on that or um if you can come back to us in short order with specific information about uh where we stand with staffing related to adaptive sports.
▶ 1:00:33I would be happy to take it for the record to get back to you. I do just want to clarify that adaptive sports clinicians are in various occupations, recreational therapists, physical therapists, occupational therapists. So it would be a but we will be happy to come back. Yeah. But you must have an accounting of um who's uh who which clinicians are connected to adaptive sports programs. Correct.
▶ 1:00:57They're across the enterprise and they are frontline field-based providers who are our coaches for our veterans out in the field and across the enterprise. And that is who we rely on to assist us even with our national rehab events. Wouldn't you agree that's a a pretty important element of delivering these programs to veterans? Absolutely. Dr. Scolton, I would just like to add that so our adaptive sports programs are across the enterprise as Dr.
▶ 1:01:25Mardle mentioned and the the critical piece about that is our rehabilitation staff stationed ac across every medical center are aware of these programs and pursuing not only um their um working with veterans to maximize their rehabilitation potential but also working with community partners to provide um adaptive sporting activities uh that are available in the community.
▶ 1:01:49So, this is an essential part of that reintegration piece that we we me that you mentioned earlier from transitioning from the the skilled rehabilitation u um uh part of their care after an injury towards reintegrating back into the community. And so we really leverage not just a specific subset of our rehabilitation uh professionals across the country, but every rehab individual.
▶ 1:02:13And in most cases, every rehab uh staff member contributes or participates part of their time into adaptive sporting uh events, whether it's through support of the actual event, uh recommending to veterans to participate in that or to build onto their rehab and wellness plan. Okay. I appreciate that.
▶ 1:02:34And so just to sum up, I'm looking for some more clarity with respect to uh positions that have been impacted by the hiring freeze within the adaptive sports or under the adaptive sports umbrella, anyone connected to that, including clinicians. Uh and I'm also looking for more information um in the wake of the uh IG report on uh staffing with grant management experience, making sure that we have enough and just kind of trying to assess what level we're at today.
▶ 1:03:01So, if you can follow up with us, um, we look forward to that information. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. The general recognizes Representative Barrett from the great state of Michigan for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, appreciate the first round of questioning. Wanted to um, uh, also ask so uh, Dr. Mardle and and for the panel too, if there's someone uh, more appropriate to answer this, I know that we've seen a significant rise in construction costs across the economy.
▶ 1:03:29I spoke to realators in my district and they were saying, you know, you can't buy an affordable home any longer and takes too much to build new and all the regulations, everything else, you know, uh tools, equipment, materials have skyrocketed. Uh labor costs have gone up.
▶ 1:03:45Um, have our costs through the VA and the adaptive programs for living accommodations and everything else, have they kept pace with that ramp up in cost of construction for a home or are veterans having to make decisions, you know, based upon cost overruns and things of that sort? I I can take that question, sir. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:04:11So, um, cost of, uh, materials and labor have both been kind of rampant, um, since the since the pandemic, and it does, as I stated before, impact the ability to stretch those grant funds. So, um, what we tried to do utilizing the cost of construction index, which allows us to keep pace with the um, with the uh, cost of construction. I think last year we were able to raise the amount by 4.6%. Year before that, it was think it was over 6%.
▶ 1:04:39We're maintaining about a 25% comparison between the overall average cost of housing. However, veterans um unless they're just adapting an existing home, they will almost always have to come out of pocket for other costs just because of the cost. However, we do have other partner programs. I mentioned before, home improvement and structural alterations grant that is managed by VHA and we also have the um veteran readiness and employment independent living track has a grant called the home adaptation grant.
▶ 1:05:08we're actually able to leverage all those collectively to help reduce the amount of money that a veteran has to use out of their own pocket to make sure they get the necessary adaptations. Then of course we lean on nonprofit partners as well. Sure. Uh thank you. And so uh typically if a veteran needs substantial accommodations, they are not retrofitting the home that they may already live in. Is is that generally true? They're usually having to build new. Majority of times actually they're adapting a home. We have several different plan types.
▶ 1:05:37What we call the plan three is remodeling a home that a veteran already owns. That is by far the the one we use the most. About 85 to 90% of our projects really are that. Okay. Uh, and if a person, a veteran is um, you know, substantially mobility limited and like I understand a wheelchair ramp for your front steps or something of that sort is is a smaller modification, but other things for someone who may have much more severe mobility restrictions
▶ 1:06:08that probably tips the scales toward a new build at that point. It it it really depends. I mean, we um a new bathroom will run $40 to $50,000 usually for a fully accessible bathroom. Those we can usually do with a proper designer we can do within the existing home. Veterans usually choose to buy a new home if they don't own one already or if they own an older home which maybe can't be modified. At that point, we tell them the property is not really suitable for the type of adaptations you need and then they would try to find another home. Okay. All right.
▶ 1:06:37I uh and and I feel like construction costs have gone up by far more than the four or 6% that you're describing. Has that been accounted for? Is there an automatic adjustment? You mentioned the construction inflation index, right? Um just, you know, anecdotally, you can't go to Home Depot or Lowe's and find the same building materials for only 4% more than they were, you know, pre- pandemic, for example. True. The the co the um we use an industry cost of construction index.
▶ 1:07:04Um, so with the authority to increase this, we had to designate an index we would use. The one we use is currently the Turner cost, which actually reflects increased cost across the industry. So that's the one we've been using. Okay. All right. Is that accurate, would you say, or is there work that needs to be done to to make that more um uh I guess more accurate for today's conditions?
▶ 1:07:28I think it covers most of the locations, but there are a lot of locations around the country where it's more difficult to get equipment and materials that we need to think about. Pacific Islands is one. Rural properties on uh on reservations land, tribal trust lands, things like that is a lot harder. So, um that's usually where we uh come up against projects that exceed the the grant cost. Okay. Because I I would say even, you know, where I live, we're not stranded out somewhere.
▶ 1:07:54I mean, there's home improvement stores, you know, in the drivable area, but the costs of materials have just gone up so much. And then the building uh labor costs and then the timeline in which to find a contractor, it all really adds to the cost of the U program. But thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes Mr. Ramirez for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman. Just wanted to follow up with you, Mr. Ratona, on the questions around the adaptive vehicle applications.
▶ 1:08:21I think you said to me that you'll go back and try to get me information on how many um applications you get annually. Is that right? And then I think the only second part to that that I had was how long on average does on average does it take to determine eligibility once they've submitted the application. Thank you for your question ma'am. Um so eligibility for any compensation whatsoever is performed that determination is performed by the VA's compensation service. I think they have an average time.
▶ 1:08:50I do not have that data with me, but I can provide it. Yeah, that would be helpful because I'm trying to find out specifically as it pertains to vehicle applications what the average amount of time is. So, I want to um pivot to another question here. We've heard repeated concerns from veterans and dealerships about delayed payments. Can you I think another question for you, Mr. Latona. What's causing some of the backlog and is there enough staff to process these applications?
▶ 1:09:18Um I uh so the the payments are done outside of the special adapted housing program that I'm where I'm here for my subject matter expertise for that program specifically. However, we can get you an answer on the staffing. I don't know if that impacts it currently, but I do know there are many variables when it comes to paying any vendors. Um communication between vendors depending on size, depending on the way they invoice, there are a lot of differences in the different timelines specifically.
▶ 1:09:43Um, I do know that once a an invoice gets to VBA for payment, we have a time of 15 days to actually deliver those payments. The transaction usually takes one to two days. So, this is one of the areas that we're looking at within the IP to find out where the bottlenecks are. And I really appreciate that because I I have heard repeatedly concerns with constituents about the delayed payments and what that means for them. Let me one last question around that and then I'll get to my last question.
▶ 1:10:11Have there been any staff fired responsible for this work between the vendors and the processing since January 20th? I'm not aware again that that program is outside of my Okay. So, can we get on the record chairman that there's a number of questions that I don't have information on. I'd like to be able to follow up and get it. Absolutely. Thank you, chairman. Uh, so the last one I have here um is how does the VA currently calculate the cost of an adaptive vehicle?
▶ 1:10:38And yeah, answer that and then I'll I guess there is a second part to that. I'm going to actually refer that to Dr. Sculton. Great. Someone else answering. Thank you, Dr. Schultton. Thank you, Mr. Latona. My pleasure. Thanks for the question. So, that depends on the specific adaptation that's required, which is going to be uniquely customed for that individual veteran and their abilities.
▶ 1:11:00Um the we veterans are evaluated by driver rehab specialists to develop a specific prescription for what modifications need to be provided for their vehicle. Then those uh line items on the invoice are processed through our prosthetic partners and then selected to a vendor.
▶ 1:11:19Once those modifications have been made, then prosthetics looks at the the line item on the prescription to ensure that each piece is uh appropriately provided to on the vehicle or adapted to the vehicle before we we can before we sign off on completeness. Got it.
▶ 1:11:37the the payment schedule for each of those uh items is posted um on our website and the the the a payment schedule is updated every fiscal year and that's based on the consumer price index and that's based on the consumer price index as well. Yes. Okay. Got it. That's that was actually my follow-up question. Those are all the questions I have now. Chairman, the general lady yields back and I recognize myself for five minutes. Um, okay.
▶ 1:12:05So, you just said that when the VA gets a bill, you have 15 days to pay it. Is that right? Uh, that's cruiser. Yeah. Okay. Well, on this list that you'll have, we got um Kansas City, Missouri, days. El Paso 246, Dallas, Texas 362. These are all days.
▶ 1:12:31Um, Dallas 823 days, Phoenix 256 days, 530 days for another thing in Phoenix. Waco 96. So, I was an enlisted guy. Um, so, you know, math isn't my forte, but I'm I'm just going to say that I think all of those are greater than the number 15. I agree, sir. Okay.
▶ 1:13:00Sir, can you walk me through the billing process? What happens? So, uh, I can walk you through most of it. Some of it might be on the VHA side, but where I'll pick it up from is once VHA has identified the specific adaptations that were required, they will coordinate with the vendor to make sure the vendor understands what's needed and what the cost of those are. Once that entire package is complete, um, it goes to the vendor and then it makes its way to VA to pay it. Okay.
▶ 1:13:30What is what does that mean, sir? Makes it way. It's emailed. It's emailed from the local office. So, the office that is actually performing the analysis, determining what adaptations are required, emails it directly to the support services division, which is an office within VA that handles the payments. It's a it's a few minutes. And how is how does a check get cut? check gets cut at that point. It goes over to our support services division who pays all vendors for all services. How many people are there? I'm I'm not aware.
▶ 1:14:00So, these are not where the better these are not where the bottlenecks are. Obviously, bottlenecks are somewhere up up or down the the stream somewhere, not in those little transactions. And that's I I guarantee you I guarantee you if we had open kimono with your stuff that I could figure this problem out in an like lining block chart disabled veteran vendor payment. That's all we're talking about.
▶ 1:14:29This is this is bananas. So, I'm going to say this again. The Veterans Affairs or I'm going to say it the Veterans Affairs Administration is not a jobs program. It ain't. Neither is the military. So, if if we have nine bosses, Bob, you know, that's a problem.
▶ 1:14:49So, We have to look at the structure of the VA through the lens of getting that marine what he needs, not you or you or you. Um, are individual projects capped? Like a home, is there a financial cap? Each grant program has its own maximum grant amount available for especially adapted housing. It's $121,000 this year. For home? Yes.
▶ 1:15:19What about for a vehicle? Um I would defer to Dr. Scolton on that. Um there is no cap on the vehicle modifications. It's based specifically on the the required um adaptations per in the prescription from the driver rehab specialist. Okay. So riffing off Mr. Barrett's comments about inflation and whatnot, when was that cap of $120,000 per unit established? October 1st. Each year we have the ability to raise it based upon the cost of construction index.
▶ 1:15:49What was it last October? 117,000. So you raised it 3,000 bucks. It's based upon an index and industry index, right? Even though housing costs and construction costs have increased by like 30 to 40% in the last few years. Okay. We need to really look at that. Like who's who said you're going to use the consumer price index? Is that us or uh for the vehicle modifications? That's in our regulations. So, you did that.
▶ 1:16:18What about for the homes? For the homes, the statute directs we use a cost of construction index, right? And we selected the one that we're currently using because it was the most but it's not tied to inflation, right? It's it's it's tied to the cost of materials and labor across the right? Okay. By a third party. Check. Um I want to see that on paper. I I I want to see that on paper. Either yours or ours or whatever. Let's fix this.
▶ 1:16:48Um Okay. Well, my time is expired. I'd like to yield to ranking member uh Papus if he has any closing statements, sir. No, I'm good. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, for this panel, obviously. Um Okay. Well, here's what I'm going to tell you. We got to do better. These things are And I listen, I'm looking in the mirror, too. I I should have figured out this tap thing, you know, two years ago. That is a Department of Defense issue. That's clear.
▶ 1:17:14But somebody who's been working or a group of people for collectively 60 years should have been like, "Hey, Congress people, you know, we can't get the word out." So that's on me, too. I'm not just I'm pointing two fingers, you know, one at you and one at me. Um, and I want you just to I want you to hyperfocus on these issues because all of these problems are fixable. And if we're not, the status quo is not acceptable. Our our wounded veterans are trapped in a chair for the rest of their lives.
▶ 1:17:44You know what I mean? They can't speak. They can't see. They they can't walk. They're they're they're grotesqually disfigured, you know, by burns. And they can't they can't move well. And they're having mental health issues. And all of this is about them. And so I really want you guys to do some soularching and figure out how to do this better. establish metrics.
▶ 1:18:11I mean, do you guys any Do you have any quantifiable metric at all for anything you're doing? You do? Yes, sir. We do. Okay. I would like to see them. All right. With that, uh, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
▶ 1:18:24Uh, you're excused, and we're going to impanel our second group This committee will uh stand adjourned for 10 minutes.
▶ 1:29:55Committee will come to order. On our second panel, we'll be hearing from our witnesses. First witness is Mr. Tom Land Wormire, president and chief executive office at Homes for Our Troops. Our next witness is Mr. Mike Owens, adaptive sports director, Wounded Warrior Project. Our third witness is Mr.
▶ 1:30:25Craig Scrimshshire, president of North American Manufacturing, Bronnability. Our final witness is Miss Julie How, my very good friend, associate legislative director for government relations, Paralyzed Veterans of America. Um, I'm going to ask you to stand and raise your right or left hand, sir. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but truth? The w the record will reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative.
▶ 1:30:55Please be seated. Mr. Land Roier, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony. Thank you, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papus, and distinguished members of the Veterans Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity.
▶ 1:31:14My sincere thanks for granting Homes for Our Troops, or HVOT as we're known, the opportunity to testify before the subcommittee to review the VA's specially adapted housing, adaptive automobile, and adaptive sports programs to help assess how effectively these programs serve veterans across the country. To date, Homes for Our Troops has built and donated 409 specially adapted custom homes in 45 states to the most severely injured post 911 veterans.
▶ 1:31:44We currently have 78 ongoing projects with over 100 veterans in the application process. We use the SAH grant eligibility requirements as a screening criterion for our program and are quite familiar with the SAH program but are less familiar with the adaptive automobile and sports programs.
▶ 1:32:05Over the past 20 years, HVOT has developed a close working relationship with the VA SAH office to better assist our veterans in joining a mutually positive and productive working relationship. We communicate often with the SAH office as we support our veterans and consistently find their personnel to be helpful and responsive.
▶ 1:32:28When the COVID pandemic restricted VA travel, they were open to accepting HVOT staff photos of the adaptations in our homes that the SAH office required for their approval process, expediting the SAH process for these deserving men and women. When Congress was considering the Ryan Kouls and Paul Benny Specially Adapted Housing Improvement Act, we provided feedback from our veterans to our VA SAH contacts.
▶ 1:32:57Last month, our staff surveyed the veterans in our program about their familiarity and experience with the VA specially adapted housing, adaptive automobile, and adaptive sports programs. Testimony today is based on the survey results.
▶ 1:33:10While our veterans have a basic understanding of the SA grant and eligibility requirements, roughly half of the veterans who responded say they have minimal knowledge regarding subsequent uses of the grant and specifically how often they can use it and how it actually increases annually. Half find the application easy to complete, but 20% find it difficult.
▶ 1:33:34Many veterans experience inconsistent procedures and approval standards between agents even in the same region. nationwide, we have found variances in procedures and interpretations across regions and agents and have provided that feedback to the SH office. About 50% of the veterans report being familiar with the adaptive automobile grant program.
▶ 1:33:58Nearly 60% of our veterans pled struggled with the grant application process, finding it complex and difficult to understand. There is also much confusion concerning if and when a veteran can apply for a second grant and how this relates to the VA program that provides reimbursement for adaptations to an automobile. Nearly 80% of our veterans have little to no knowledge of the VA adaptive sports and recreation program or its offerings.
▶ 1:34:27of those who actually compete at the national or Olympic level, 90% stated they were unfamiliar with the Olympic team and Team USA monthly grant stipen. Veterans also noted the need for clear eligibility rules and vendor approval processes as well as more flexibility for choosing adaptive gear based on their injuries. The VA offers many outstanding programs for injured veterans, a focus on consistency across the regions and among agents.
▶ 1:34:56More streamlined and understandable application procedures and creating better awareness about these great programs will enhance the VA support to veterans nationwide. We are very grateful for our longtime partnership with the VA and appreciate all that they and you do for our veterans. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today and I look forward to your questions. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes Miss Howell.
▶ 1:35:27Oh, I'm sorry. The chair now recognizes Mr. Owens for five minutes to deliver your testimony, sir. Uh, thank you, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papas, and members of the subcommittee. Again, my name is Mike Owens and I am the director of adaptive sports at Wounded Warrior Project and a Marine Corps veteran. In 2005 October, while on my second deployment to Iraq, I was man in the 50 cal on top of a 7-tonon when it rolled over.
▶ 1:35:55I obviously lost my right arm above the elbow and I also shattered both of my legs. As an ampute who is dependent on prosthetics and adaptive equipment for sport and recreation, I bring almost 20 years of personal and professional experience on the issue. Wounded Warrior Project was founded to serve and empower our nation's heroes, and we offer direct programs and services, including adaptive sports opportunities, to over 231,000 registered warriors across the country.
▶ 1:36:23Interactions with warriors through our programs inform our advocacy before Congress here today. An amazing example of this is our Soldieride program. Soldier Ride is a multi-day riding event where warriors never ride alone. They move forward together as a unit, just as they did during their military service. We believe anyone can ride and we offer the use of hand cycles, recumbent trikes, road bikes, and hybrid bicycles. Soldier empowers warriors to find solace, healing, and strength through movement.
▶ 1:36:52After participating in a soldier event, more than 90% of warriors uh report being more confident in themselves and better connected to other While a more complete list of our recommendations is provided in our written testimony, I would like to focus in on a few key areas where we believe that Congress and the VA can take action to expand access, promote participation, and better serve our veterans. So, first, we believe that Congress should increase the funding provided to the adaptive sports grant program.
▶ 1:37:23This grant program is vital to nonprofit organizations who provide adaptive sport opportunities to serve veterans in their communities. More specifically, we feel that the amount appropriated for the program should be increased to offset the recent changes in mandatory spending related to ecoin assisted therapy.
▶ 1:37:39The 16.5 million amount has not been increased since FY 2016 and new requirements that approximately 30% of that funding be dedicated to ecoin assisted therapy will reduce grant funds available for organizations that provide all other adaptive sports programming.
▶ 1:37:58We also feel that the administrative cost allowance associated with these grants should be on par with other federal grants in order to allow grantees to accommodate more veterans and provide more comprehensive adaptive sports programming. This change would prevent nonprofit organizations from being forced to use limited donor dollars to cover these costs.
▶ 1:38:18Secondly, Wounded Warrior Project believes strongly that the VA should be able to connect veterans with adaptive sports programs regardless of where they live or the nature of their disability and be capable of accommodating all veterans who wish to attend National VA adaptive sports events.
▶ 1:38:35In order to meet this challenge, we recommend that VA ensure recreational therapists capable of accommodating veterans with all types of mobility challenges be accessible to all veterans and that VA formalize the currently ad hoc position of adaptive sports coordinator in order to ensure all veterans regardless of where they live can be connected to adaptive sports programs as well as the six VA national events.
▶ 1:39:00And finally, we encourage Congress and VA to ensure that veterans who want to participate in adaptive sports have access to both the opportunities and the equipment needed to achieve their goals. Regardless of whether a warrior qualifies as a member of Team USA's Parolympic team or if they wish simply to play be able to play basketball with their family in the driveway, VA should have the authority and ability to provide them equipment the equipment that they need.
▶ 1:39:28And those warrior athletes who do seek higher levels of competition should be provided with both specialized equipment and the funding support to ensure they can reach their goals. Additionally, we fully support legislative efforts to allow participation in the DoD Warrior Games more than the one year after separation. A change that will not only benefit the Warrior Games, but will also provide warriors with a new chance to compete.
▶ 1:39:53So, in closing, adaptive sports and physical activity help veterans transition from surviving to thriving. Participation makes them physically stronger, more mentally resilient, and more connected to their peers and communities. And research has repeatedly shown consistent physical activity decreases stress, anxiety, depression, chronic pain, reduces a reliance and prescript um reliance on prescription medication.
▶ 1:40:19So furthermore, positive improvements are seen in mobility, sleep quality, and psychological well-being. Adaptive sports and rec recreation for our nation's wounded warriors is not simply a nice addition. They are a critical element to enhance both the length and quality of their lives. Wounded Warrior Project stands ready to assist on these issues and any others that may arise. Thank you and I look forward to your questions. The gentleman yield yields uh the written testimony of Mr. Lander and Mr. Mr. Owens will be entered into the record.
▶ 1:40:49Mr. Scrimshire, you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman, Van Orton, and Ranking Member Papus, members of the committee, and my fellow panelists, and the Veterans Administration for their commitment to work on these important issues. My name is Craig Scrimshire, and I lead North American manufacturing for Bronnability, a global leader in wheelchair accessible vehicles and mobility solutions.
▶ 1:41:13I oversee domestic production to ensure high quality, safe, and accessible products for our customers who are Americans with physical disabilities and their caregivers. At Bronnability, we take veterans mobility issues personally as they represent approximately 17% of our customers. We believe veterans have sacrificed greatly and they have earned these benefits. I'm here to talk about three key issues.
▶ 1:41:39Uh first being changes to the accessible vehicle trade-in policy uh which for decades allowed disabled veterans to trade in their vehicle every two years. Uh suddenly and without notice, the VA recently changed the policy to once every four years uh without any announcement. Uh this has the risk of forcing veterans to pay significant out-of- pocket cost for mobility.
▶ 1:42:04Second issue uh which we've talked about uh in detail today are delayed VA payments to mobility dealers. According to the National Mobility Dealers uh in a study of 89 uh dealerships uh we found $11 million in past due payments uh with the average delay being 186 days. Uh so really encouraging to hear about the commitment uh to work on that through IP uh in 15 days uh sounds great to us.
▶ 1:42:34Uh third issue is around an outdated VA price schedule. So we appreciate the transparency. The VA for the first time published a price schedule listing the amounts that they will reimburse for conversions, equipments, and repair. Uh which is great. Uh however, it was based on 2021 data uh and was not published until 2024.
▶ 1:42:55So we missed approximately three years of very real inflation in the automotive market which we would anticipate just based on average new car prices moved somewhere from 17 to 19% in period. So we urge the VA to accelerate updates to this uh this is a significant impact uh to our larger dealer network.
▶ 1:43:18Uh so uh I'd say an even larger problem that we would like to highlight beyond policy changes and payment delays is really a clear lack of empathy uh in indifference to our veteran customers uh and dealers u and their experience in working with the VA.
▶ 1:43:35Uh bureaucratic hurdles are expected but the dismissive attitude towards those who have sacrificed so much is simply Veterans and their families should not have to fight for fair treatment and transparency uh from the institution meant to serve them. I want to share a story of a gentleman I connected with recently. His name is John Massan. Uh he's a hooer. He's from Lake Station, Indiana. Enlisted in the US Army in 1989 following a family tradition of service.
▶ 1:44:04He served First Armored Division, 82nd Airborne Division, Indiana Army National Guard, earning the Ranger Tab, Green Beret, and Special Forces Tab. Uh John was deployed multiple times, including for Operations Iraqi Freedom, Operations Enduring Freedom, and in 2010, severely injured by an IED in Kandahar Province. He lost both of his legs, his dominant left hand, and thankfully survived thanks to the immediate intervention from fellow soldiers.
▶ 1:44:34Uh he underwent like many extensive rehabilitation at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Retired in 2012, now advocates for accessibility with organiz organizations like the Gary Senise Foundation. Uh so this story uh we hear about frequently throughout our network. When I spoke with John, he was not aware of the changes to the trade-in policy. It came as a complete surprise to him and I'll provide a quote from John.
▶ 1:44:59His reaction uh when finding out there's nothing like making a combat veteran feel their limbs and sacrifices were given in vain, like stripping away their hard-earned benefits and making life more complicated and expensive. I thought leaving the VA in tears was behind me. This lack of communication and transparency is a failure uh in how we support those who have sacrificed so much.
▶ 1:45:24So moving forward, uh we're encouraged uh to see uh reasonable reform like House Bill 1364. Uh we're here to find solutions. We believe veterans deserve more than bureaucracy and policy shifts. They deserve respect, empathy, and support. We are open to constructive discussions to find solutions that benefit our veterans. I look forward to answering any questions and working with the VA on meaningful change. And I've submitted more detailed testimony. Thank you.
▶ 1:45:54Thank you, Mr. Scrimmure. The written testimony or statement of Mr. Scrimure will be entered into the record. Miss Howell, you're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony. Chairman Van Organ, Ranking Member Papis, and members of the subcommittee, Paralyzed Veterans of America, is grateful for the opportunity to testify today about the critical role that VA's adaptive programs play in the lives of PVA members. For almost 80 years, PVA has been a voice for veterans who have experienced catastrophic injury or illness.
▶ 1:46:22And we regularly engage with many of the VA programs being discussed today. These programs help deliver veterans with catastrophic dis excuse me. These programs help veterans with catastrophic disabilities modify their homes, receive adapted vehicles, and find camaraderie through adaptive sports, which supports them on their journey to find a renewed sense of purpose and hope. Jason, a Marine Corps veteran and PVA member, recently affirmed the role adaptive fitness plays when he said, "Being able to push barriers, that helps people know that there's more to life.
▶ 1:46:52Adaptive fitness can help save a life. It gives you a great sense of purpose." Now, I'd like to discuss some of the specific VA programs that help PVA members and other disabled veterans regain their independence. First, VA's home modification programs are crucial for veterans with catastrophic disabilities. They provide essential support to help them adapt their homes to better accommodate their needs.
▶ 1:47:14While we appreciate the significant improvements Congress has made in recent years to the specially adapted housing grant, we are concerned with recent changes to the program's administration and that it will make it more difficult to navigate as VA is less able to provide veterans with direct support throughout the modification process. Another essential program is VA's home improvements and structural alterations or HISA grant. Unfortunately, HISARE rates haven't increased since 2010, despite the cost of construction increasing around 50% in the same time frame.
▶ 1:47:45HR2245, the Autonomy for Disabled Veterans Act, and HR 3309, the Autonomy for All Disabled Veterans Act, both seek to increase the amount available to veterans through the HISA grant while also tying the grant to an inflationary index. PVA strongly supports improving this benefit so that it more closely aligns with the needs of eligible veterans. Second, the automobile adaptive equipment or AE program exists to increase access to safe and reliable transportation for service connected catastrophically disabled veterans.
▶ 1:48:16Recent regulatory and policy changes made by VA have created barriers for some PVA members. As an example, current law states that adaptive equipment includes but is not limited to power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, and other features. However, in 2024, VA issued a final rule which basically ignores the statutory requirements and lists these items as a at a reimbursement rate of zero dollars.
▶ 1:48:41So, the department has effectively made made it impossible for veterans to be reimbursed for these necessary features, creating significant roadblocks and increasing the financial burden faced by disabled veterans. VA lacks the authority to implement a final rule that is counter to the statutory requirement for the delivery of this benefit and veterans often appeal these decisions which are consistently reversed by the board of veteran appeals. It is a waste of taxpayers dollars to deny veterans their earned benefits which then requires them to file an appeal.
▶ 1:49:10Finally, many of our members find camaraderie and community thanks to adaptive sports. For example, the VA's adaptive sport grant helps allow PVA to host more than 60 free year-round adaptive sport and recreation events across the country, which provide an opportunity for PVA members to explore adaptive sports and find new passions. For many veterans, their introduction to adaptive sports is a direct result of VA, excuse me, of VA rehabilitation programs facilitated by recreational therapists.
▶ 1:49:40VA wreck therapists provide direct care to veterans and help them bridge the gap between clinical rehabilitation and community reintegration which lead which leads to decrease suicidal ideiation and improve clinical outcomes. VA must prioritize and protect recreational therapists as they have done with other direct care providers.
▶ 1:50:00Funding for adaptive sports as well as ensuring access to recreational therapists are essential in upholding the promise made to our nation's veterans that we will care for them after their service and their sacrifice. More than 50 years ago, a PVA president testified before the Senate Veteran Affairs Committee on the importance of adaptive sports and wreck therapists. He said, "For the average person, this is of no consequence, but to a man who has recently suffered an injury as to make him question the value of life, the result can be more crippling than their paralysis.
▶ 1:50:30It is a proven fact that the greatest number of failures in rehabilitating a person occur in the evening hours and on weekends when they are away from work. It seems s it seems senseless to throw away the efforts, money, and most important that individual's life because of the failure to teach that person how to cope with their leisure time. This statement remains as true today as it was then. Catastrophically disabled veterans deserve no less. Thank you for allowing PVA to testify at today's hearing and I welcome any questions you may have.
▶ 1:50:59Thank you, Miss H. Miss Hall's written statement will be entered into the record. Uh we're going to proceed to question now. I recognize ranking member Baptist for five minutes. Thanks very much. I appreciate all of your uh testimony and the way that uh you and your organizations stand up for veterans each and every day.
▶ 1:51:14I'm really grateful for the work that you do and I think you gave us a good road map of how we can uh help make sure that our veterans and their service uh are honored uh and that we're improving the kind of coordination um that um sometimes sees breakdown uh a breakdown over at VA um in terms of communication, transparency, and some of the other ideas that you all put on the table. Miss Howell, if I can start with you, I I appreciate you highlighting sports at the end of your testimony.
▶ 1:51:40Um, I've got an organization in my state, Northeast Passage, that does a great job uh offering veterans and service members uh access uh to sports and recreation. Um, you talked a little bit about barriers. Um, I'm wondering if you can highlight those uh as they pertain to sports. What are some ways that we can encourage and identify this as an opportunity for more veterans to pursue? Thank you for that question, sir.
▶ 1:52:05Um, I think as has been highlighted by several people today, a big barrier is understanding and even knowing about a program. Most of PVA's events uh are in partnership with chapters. So, they're within or near hubs where we have a high member population. Um, many of our members were introduced to adaptive sports through their recck therapists, which is a direct provider in their delivery of care team through a spinal cord injury center.
▶ 1:52:31So, I think as many efforts are made from the top down, there's going to be breakdowns in that communication flow. And I think VA can do better to engage with all of the grant recipients for the sport grant program. Um, I think earlier today it was mentioned that there's 15,000 organizations that are dedicated to this type of work.
▶ 1:52:53It's just going to require greater community, greater engagement, um reaching across maybe more local lines and just creating that network so that that awareness and that information can be shared. Maybe I can open that up to the panel, whether it's sports or other adaptive programs through VA. I'm wondering if you could uh give me some observations in terms of how VA is doing with outreach and communication, giving veterans the information and knowledge that they need about the opportunities that are available to them.
▶ 1:53:23Mr. Owens. Uh, yes, sir. Uh, thank you for the question. First of all, I will add in down in San Antonio area, you know, we're definitely blessed. The VA has done an amazing job. Uh, but as they say, if you've been to one VA, you've been to one VA. And so, uh, we have great benefits there in Military City USA. Um, for example, access to, uh, local parks. We have over 100 miles of concrete path that's being built just for people to have access and be rec have recreation outside.
▶ 1:53:54Um but uh they the the benefits that we see are not always the case especially for those individuals that EAS and get out of the service and go back home to the middle of nowhere. Maybe they're 3 four hours away from the closest VA and that means they have almost no resources available in their local area and we've seen that many times.
▶ 1:54:13Um, additionally, uh, in the program that I mentioned within Soldier Ride, we've se seen on multiple occasions, almost every event, at least one veteran that attends that would benefit from the adaptive equipment and it could definitely be used to improve their mobility, their pain, uh, reduce pain, all of that, but they do not meet the eligibility requirements to receive that equipment through the VA. Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Scrum, thank you.
▶ 1:54:42Uh yeah, I would just uh highlight that uh we have a decadesl long precedent for a trade-in policy uh that's written pretty plainly uh in policy that changed suddenly and and you know when I think of communication we are hearing this frequently. We have Vietnam veterans that have been in a trade cycle every two years for for decades finding out from their dealerships that they no longer qualify. Um so I want to undermine there are a lot of great people uh in the VA that that mean well and doing great things, right?
▶ 1:55:11But this is an example of some recent changes that are really really impacting and surprising veterans. Uh and we just don't think that should be the case. Thank you, Mr. Land Landor Meyer. Thank you, sir. Uh sir, about 70% of the veterans that come to us annually already have their SAH grant eligibility figured out. They've already applied, been approved. About 30% have either been denied or don't know how to do it and we will help them.
▶ 1:55:40So again, quite a few already know about it when they come to us. Thank you. Miss How, maybe in the time I have left, you mentioned the need to protect recreational therapists. Could you expound on that a little bit? Yes, sir. Thank you. Um, as far as we are aware, recreational therapists are not on the exempt list for retaining VA staff. Um, we believe that as a direct care provider and as a critical component of a care team for a catastrophically disabled veteran that they should be added to that exempt list.
▶ 1:56:10Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes Mr. Barrett for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it and appreciate each of you and the work that you're doing um to uh move forward with our veterans in a in a really meaningful way. So, thank you all for being here. And Miss Howell, special appreciation for you. I know uh you were very uh uh helpful in the assist act and we were able to get that through the house uh earlier this week and uh genuinely appreciate your work in crafting that bill and and and adding improvements to it along the way.
▶ 1:56:40So, thank you for that. And um uh Mr. Scrimshire had a question for you. I know um you've brought the the issue before the committee about um payment and prompt payment from the VA and what that has looked like and how that's affected local um dealers and others that are you know rendering these vehicles for uh for veterans and how that can affect them.
▶ 1:57:04I looked at the list that you provided of uh past due payments and um you know many of frankly all of them are are concerning and some of them are deeply concerning with the amount of time more than a year in some instances more than two years in other instances. Um can you help me understand uh what is the industry standard? So outside of the VA I'm sure you your company provides vehicles for others in a uh um in a lack of mobility condition as well.
▶ 1:57:32what is the current you know kind of industry standard for payment? Thank you Congressman Barrett for the question. Uh the industry standard for payment typically in private pay is is upon delivery uh that's either through banking you know finance typically or you know a check in some cases. Yes.
▶ 1:57:50And uh let's say a person's insurance uh whether that's medical or or automobile insurance, you know, they were catastrophically injured in automotive accident maybe and their insurance covered that as a uh benefit. Um how long would that typically take if the person purchasing wasn't the ultimate payer? I don't have a data point on that handy. I could follow up on that. Would be glad to. I I know that that does vary significantly across geographies. Okay.
▶ 1:58:17And then um payments for adaptive vehicles um are I guess um done at the local VA level, not a there's not like a a centralized clearing house for this. Um and it appears that some process quicker. I don't know if they're on the list because they've had more adaptive vehicles approved and that's why they're on the list or if just some some local VAS are quicker than others. What's kind of your experience with that?
▶ 1:58:46We would like to understand that as well. Um, you know, what we know is that there's consistent variability within our dealer network. It's typically known um which VAS are are habitual offenders on on late payment. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, lack of consistency across the network is is a is a major concern. And uh what percent of your business, if you're willing to share with us, is VA related, would you say? Uh vulnerability approximately 17%.
▶ 1:59:14However, I would say within our dealer network, it can range from 20 to 40%, you know, depending on on the geography. So, significant substantial. And then, do you believe it would be better or uh more useful if we did have a centralized, you know, processing for for rendering payment for these um vehicles? I I know that we cut cars in half and put them back together in 3 days. So, um you know, anything that would drive an improvement from this 189day average would be welcomed.
▶ 1:59:43um inconsistency across the network would be appreciated. Sure. Yeah. If you can make the car in a few days, we shouldn't take, you know, 100 times that amount to get the payment through to you. Okay. I do appreciate that. And as I know you can tell from the committee testimony today, this is something we want to really genuinely work on. So, thank you again. Appreciate each of you for being here and the work that you're doing. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back. The gentleman yields back and I recognize myself for five minutes.
▶ 2:00:09I tell you what, I've been getting progressively angrier as this these hearings are going on because this is just completely unacceptable. There's no other way to describe this. It's unacceptable. You're never getting your arm back, Marine. And for a bureaucrat to uh, you know, blow that off is not okay. My veterans are not beggars and they will not be treated as such.
▶ 2:00:40that. Hey, Dutch, give that to Scrimshirt. That's my personal cell phone number. You give it to that Green Beret. Tell them to call me. If he ever has another issue with the VA, I swear to God, I'll go down there and strangle somebody. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, well, good. On that note, uh, Mr. Owens, uh, when is this next Soldiers Ride and where is it? Uh, actually, we have them all over the nation.
▶ 2:01:09Uh the next one would I think they just had DC and the next one that they'll be having is Chicago. Okay. Well, I know the vice chairman of the Congressional Motorcycle Caucus, his name is Van Orton. And so I don't know why I haven't got an invite yet, buddy, but uh that better happen. Is that clear? I Yes, sir. I think I got a bike here. I don't have a car in DC, man. And I'll go roll heavy with you cats. That's really important.
▶ 2:01:39Um, you've been involved in the VA system for quite a while since 2005, got blown up outside of Balad, you know, rolled over and stuff. Have you seen an increase? I I'd like to have some positive things here. Have you seen an increase in the VA's delivery of services, availability of services? Yes, 100%. They've done an amazing job over the years to improve the care, access to care, and the opportunities or options available. Um, but I will say I'm in Military City, USA.
▶ 2:02:08There's a lot of resources in that area. So, it's definitely not the same across the board. Okay. Um, Miss Howell, you said recent changes to policy or recent policy changes 2024 in reference to in reference to the ability to deliver care through the VA. Is that correct?
▶ 2:02:30Sir, the the policy change that I mentioned was an internal policy decision made by VA when it comes to what the reimbursement rate is when it comes to certain features of a vehicle. Okay. And the Board of Veterans Appeals, where where do they reside? Down the street. What's that? Down the street. Okay. I would like to uh maybe pay him a visit and see what their rate of refusing claims is. Sir, if I may. Yeah. No.
▶ 2:03:00Uh, the VA denies the reimbursement rate at which point the veteran files the appeal to the board. The board overturns that denial. So, they're a force for good or a force for bad. When it comes to the reimbursement schedule rating, they are a force for good. Well, then I'd like to go see them and bring them a cup of coffee then. That would be wonderful, too. Good news story. Thank you for Um, Mr. Lan Weremer. Uh you said that you provide feedback to the SAH office.
▶ 2:03:30How responsive have they been to you? Thank you, sir. Uh actually pretty responsive, sir. Uh as I mentioned, CO they were not able to travel. Uh the agents were not able to travel, go out and inspect our homes. Yeah. So we offered to take photos and ship those back in and they took those. And then we also are able to uh call them up at any time.
▶ 2:03:53We have usually probably twice a year Zoom calls with the leadership uh of the SH branch and we can give them the pluses and minuses, good, bad, and ugly uh that we've been running up against uh as we go through the process. Uh some regions do really well, others are not quite as fast and then sometimes within regions you have fast ones and slow ones. So we do provide them all that feedback. Okay. So that is another good news story. Um Mr.
▶ 2:04:24Scruncher, so for a domestic powered side entry in flooror vehicle $39,498, it should be $46,212. Structurally modified pickup 38,61 it should be $45,163. Wheelchair backlift $6,819 bucks would be $7,980. Hey, so check it out.
▶ 2:04:49What you guys witnessed without knowing it was bipartisanship taking place because me and Chris just hatched a plan to fix this. So, we're going to write some legislation to catch you guys up. That'll be we'll introduce it together. It'll be a bipartisan effort because this again is wholly unacceptable. Um, so last thing, uh, my time is expired, so I'm going to recognize the ranking member for any closing statements he may Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this session. I want to thank our panel for their contributions to this conversation.
▶ 2:05:17And clearly, we've got a lot of work to do on the legislative front to um make sure that we're improving eligibility, that we're increasing funding, that we're ultimately optimizing the delivery of programs that serve uh our veteran community. So, really grateful for the feedback that you've presented us with today. I think we've got some good clear action items that are going to come out of this hearing. Uh and I yield back. The gentleman yields back. Uh, I just want to say a couple things before we're out of here. Look, um, I get letters from the VA all the time.
▶ 2:05:46I'm 100% service connected disabled vet. Um, you can sign up for emails. They call you, right? So, why in the hell do our disabled veterans not know about these programs? We know where they're we know where they all are, sir. And ma'am, sitting in the third row back there, we know where they are. We know their names. We know their addresses. We know their email addresses. So, we know their phone numbers.
▶ 2:06:11So, for a single disabled veteran to not know that these programs exist or that you can get uh reimburse, you can do trade in and stuff like that is just stupid. It's 2025. We know where all of these people are. We literally can assign a geographic point to their house.
▶ 2:06:36So, I'm making the strongest recommendation possible to fix this problem. Fix it. Email them, write them, and call them. You know what their disability rating is. You know where live. No more. We're going to talk about this. We're excited about that. We're having a planning session on this. We're going to write their moms and call them. Stop it.
▶ 2:07:01I guarantee you the secretary is either unaware of this or he doesn't understand how large this problem is. And we operate on scale. And the scale for a veteran not knowing about this is one. It ain't two. It ain't five. It's one.
▶ 2:07:24If one of my veterans who got blown up overseas or, God forbid, something else happened to him doesn't know about this, it's your fault. It is. So, fix it. I want to thank you all for coming. I do. All of you. I want to thank you, Mr. Owens, for your continued sacrifice to our country. I want to thank Are you How? Yes, sir. How's she doing? Oh, she's doing great. Is that right? Been with me through everything.
▶ 2:07:54All right. That's cool. That's wonderful to hear. Well, we're going to keep working together. You just figured out. I mean, we we literally just hatched a plan to help fix this. That's what we're going to do. And and we'll continue to consult with the Veterans Affairs Administration. I'm glad we got some really good good news stories out of the VA because I love the VA. I mean, I love the VA. It's very simple. Uh and with that I'd like to ask unanimous consent that all members only have 5 days legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and ex include any extraneous materials. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 2:08:24This hearing is adjourned.