▶ 0:30:03Good afternoon. Now that we have one other member here, we have a quorum on the subcommittee on cyber security, information technology, and government innovation. We will come to order and welcome everyone. The ranking member is on her way over. Um, without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. And I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement. And I am going to go a little longer than usual. Uh, so I apologize.
▶ 0:30:31Um, liberty begins with the right to close a door. A hidden camera kicks that door off its hinges. The Constitution's Fourth Amendment enshrines a reasonable expectation of privacy. Yet today that freedom is violated by secret cameras and hidden devices. To record women and girls with impunity, freedom is not a theory. It is the right to breathe. It is the right to dress and undress.
▶ 0:30:59To sleep without someone's camera filming your naked body. The founders wrote liberty in parchment, but hidden cameras erase it pixels. I speak not just as a lawmaker, but as a survivor. Starting on November 5th, 2023, I discovered my former fiance, Patrick Bryant, had filmed women without their knowledge, without their permission, and without their consent. He filmed rape, too.
▶ 0:31:28He appeared to catalog his tapes and footage and images and photos in the way that he saved the files, and he stored these images, photos, and videos for years. This isn't just creepy, it's criminal, but only under weak state laws. In South Carolina, first-time voyers face a misdemeanor and a small $500 fine. That's not justice. That is betrayal.
▶ 0:31:57Real men guard a guard a woman's privacy, but predators harvest it. When predators install covert cameras or forge explicit images, they do not just invade a room. They invade a life and that life deserves more than a misdemeanor. Exhibit one. Um, behind me is a screenshot from one of the videos I found of myself.
▶ 0:32:24The yellow circle, this naked silhouette is my naked body. I didn't know that I had been filmed. I didn't give my consent. I didn't give my permission. And this particular video that Patrick Bryant recorded of on of of me on his secret camera, he saved for over three years without my knowledge. I didn't pick this fight. I don't even want to be here today and discuss this.
▶ 0:32:54But because he's still roaming around South Carolina free, filming whatever genital parts he wants because no one has held him accountable, he's not in jail, he's not had to pay a fine, no restitution. He's able to rape other women, film them, and when I discovered this video, I discovered that he utilized up to four potential devices, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more. I was filmed in secret.
▶ 0:33:23The camera sat silent, yet it screen my safety was negotiable and my dignity disposable. Um, all right. This is this is an image of Patrick Bryant and the co-owner of that property trying to lick his face. I think it says a lot about a man's character and what he was doing behind the scenes.
▶ 0:33:46This next image I'm going to show, and I'm going to ask unanimous consent to enter it into the record, is the property where many women were filmed. This is the property where I found this hidden camera. Another another device, at least one other device was used here to film women without their knowledge, without their permission, without their consent.
▶ 0:34:07This was on the aisle of Palms in South On this one particular camera that I was filmed on and other women were filmed on, I found that there were at least 10,633 videos just on this one recording device. I'm going to request unanimous consent to enter this into the record.
▶ 0:34:38Now, I was I was given legal access to his device, by the way, on November 5th, 2023, which is where I found started to find all these things. This is a um that illustrates that in the hours and days after I was granted legal access to his phone, he used an app called Samsung Smart Switch Mobile to transfer files, videos, photos, images off of his device and onto another On the same day
▶ 0:35:08that I was given legal access to his phone, I found a second mobile device. It was the Tiramisu operating system. I have a screenshot of that. I forgot to print it off today, but I saw a second device hit our Wi-Fi. And then I see that there are files being transferred. Turns out, we believe there were terabytes and terabytes of videos and photos and images transferred off of this device and onto another. He would weeks later get a second mobile phone as well. All right.
▶ 0:35:41Um, Patrick Bryan seemed to have certain fetishes of the women he cataloged. In the evidence I uncovered, um, there were some commonalities. So, he he like categorized it. He'd even have like a head shot of a woman. He'd have a head shot of a woman. I'll show you an example. we'd have a head shot of a woman and then next to her headsh shot like just from like her Facebook or Instagram or something um this is a woman in a glitzy dress.
▶ 0:36:11He'd have a picture of a woman and they would have all these files saved next to the headsh shot almost as if he didn't want to forget who that genital part belonged to. And so on this one particular camera um that I was filmed on, I'm going to show you a series of photos of other women. I have I have blocked out the women's bodies uh to not identify them. This particular woman was changing.
▶ 0:36:34Her arms were spread out, but you could see her upper torso and the bottom of her torso from the front as she was changing on this quote camera. He saved that one years. This next image is similar to the one of me behind me. This was another woman I was unable to identify and were keeping her covered up, but she was fully nude in front of this camera.
▶ 0:37:00He saved this video of this woman naked walking around for years. One of the things that he would do in front of this hidden camera, this is him in the center of the shot, he would place women. One of the common things I saw on these videos, many many videos, is he would put women in the middle of this area where this hidden camera was, and they would perform there there would be sexual acts that would be performed.
▶ 0:37:29These women did not know they were being filmed. I have spoken to at least two potential victims. One was definitely a victim because I saw the tapes. But I've spoken to at least two potential victims that saw this camera and they asked him if they were being filmed and Patrick Bryant said no. And so he would place women in the center field of the camera and sexual acts would be performed. He would also place women on a certain piece of furniture.
▶ 0:37:57Let me get one of the um one before that. one before that. Like I said, I can do mine. Um I'll just show mine. Um on this couch back here, he would place women where I'm pointing my finger. He would place them facing out so they'd be toward the center of the camera and that you would be able to see their bodies they as they were engaged in sexual activity. And he would save these videos for years.
▶ 0:38:26He had a fetish with photographing women who were naked at the end of his bed. I covered up the woman from the top. You can see her legs spread here as she's walking out um after activity in his bedroom. She has no idea that she's being filmed. This one was with his I believe his cell phone. And so he had a fetish with butt oxes uh and of women particularly at the end of his bed.
▶ 0:38:48I saw photo after photo of naked women at the end of his bed who didn't know they were being filmed or Here's another example where another woman her shoulder's here. I identified this victim. I was able to identify several victims. I don't know if she's been informed by law enforcement that she was also filmed and photographed naked. I don't know if she consented or not, but she's again there were photo after photo of women naked at the end of his bed.
▶ 0:39:21He had a habit of filming female employees or photographing them and also the wife and or wives of male employees. This particular victim, it looks like she might be on a zipline. I also identified her. Um, he had several images of her taken on an Olympus digital camera and these are what I would describe as upskirt shots and her genital area is exposed underneath.
▶ 0:39:45I was able to identify this victim based on a public post she had on Instagram and so I've covered up what she's even wearing in this one. Um he kept these upskirt photos of this victim for almost 10 years and he had several upskirt photos from this family vacation at Callaway Gardens almost a decade ago, June of 2015.
▶ 0:40:12Here's another one when she's completely spread eagle and he took again this is just another example from the same woman on the same trip that he took of her vaginal area her genital area as she's on some sort of I don't know looks like maybe a zipline or something I'm not sure and he kept this image for almost a decade I was given permission to show this photo today
▶ 0:40:43from this victim. This is one of the rape victims that I discussed in my February 10th speech. As you can tell, she's on the couch and she's unconscious, passed out, blacked out. I think she was roofied. We don't know. We never will know. But as you can see, she's on the couch dead.
▶ 0:41:08I would find multiple photos of this rape victim on the couch of a man named Eric Bowman who resides on Sullivan's Island, South Carolina. Her rape was premeditated. It was planned. It was filmed. And the tape of her being assaulted by the business partner of Patrick Bryant, John Osborne. This rape tape was saved for years.
▶ 0:41:34By the time I found the rape tape, it had been saved for over five years. This is sick. This is perverted. This is criminal. And these men walk free today in South Carolina.
▶ 0:41:56I can't unsee the sexual assault and the rape of this young woman in the tape that I uncovered. These men should be behind bars. These weren't accidents. These were premeditated. They were planned. They were filmed. They were stored. Meticulously organized, categorized, cataloged, private hidden folder for years.
▶ 0:42:26None of us knew. No one. None of us had any knowledge that we were filmed or photographed. Some women didn't know they'd been raped. At least one did not know she'd been raped. I was the one that told her. I would learn after finding these images and speaking to potential victims over the last year and a half. Patrick Bryant allegedly raped at least three women. See, there's a there's a line between being historically between criminals that are if you're a peeping tom, then you graduate to voyerism, then you graduate to rape, and then you graduate to violence.
▶ 0:42:56Um, there have been studies about that kind of behavior. At least two potential victims told me they once saw one of his cameras and he denied he was recording. Turns out he was. We face an enemy that records and apologizes never. When I spoke up, Patrick Bryant didn't apologize. He retaliated. In fact, Patrick Bryant has started the process of suing suing his victims, included.
▶ 0:43:23So, I'm going to enter into record a couple of documents. The first document I have redacted the names on this document is from the law firm Saxton and Stump from one of Patrick Bryant's companies. And in this letter, three of his victims are named. He's suing in the process of going to sue one of his rape victims. He's in the process of suing another one.
▶ 0:43:51This is a um communication I got from his attorney that I'm going to ask unanimous consent for both of these uh preservation letters to be entered into the record that I received the other day because he's going to sue me for doing the right thing. So I say, "Bring it on, brother, because there is no defamation in the truth.
▶ 0:44:15And if you're going to be the kind of [ __ ] and monster that sues his own victims, may God help you. I'm also going to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the deed for the property where these women were filmed and who the owner is. I'm also going to request unanimous consent to enter into the record two uh short-term rental documents. One is a shortterm rental license application dated back to 2017.
▶ 0:44:46And this is this predates, I believe, this camera. This is a known short-term rental where this camera was set up. This is the resort rental management agreement for this property where all these women were filmed. This document, I believe, goes back to 2018, May of 2018, as a short-term rental management company. I'm going to ask unanimous consent to enter that into the record. I'm also going to ask unanimous consent to enter this preservation letter into the record.
▶ 0:45:15I sent this to Patrick Bryant in November of 2023 saying that in state law in South Carolina section 16-17-470, you are not allowed to record women in this way. And this is a preservation letter for him to preserve everything. Now, mind you, I know he got a new phone. I know he got a second device. I would be shocked if he still has his Android S22. Shocked if he still had it. But he got that letter early on.
▶ 0:45:44So, let me be crystal clear. I won't be intimidated. I won't back down. Not for myself and absolutely not for any of the women he violated for years. Predators like Patrick Bryant don't ask permission and neither should justice. A hidden camera does not erase liberty and doesn't deserve a slap on the wrist. Justice also doesn't crawl out of a plea deal. It arrives in a sentence that fits the crime and restores the victim.
▶ 0:46:11Justice shouldn't come in the form of real sentences, real fines, and real protection for victims. That's why I introduced the Sue Voyers Act, which create which creates a civil right of action for victims at the federal level. The Stop Voyers Act I also filed expands the narrow federal prohibition of videoism. It's not against federal law to film women in this way except for in certain maritime jurisdictions and tribal lands. As I mentioned earlier, South Carolina laws are a joke.
▶ 0:46:41They're very weak on this. Secret recordings thrive in the shadows. These bills drag them into broad daylight. Liberty is not theory. It's the right to undress in peace, to live unrecorded without being filmed while naked. Let's make sure the law reflects that truth. We need laws with teeth. We need survivors with standing. And we need to leave predators with nowhere left to hide. So today, I choose daylight.
▶ 0:47:06I invite every member of this house to step into that light with me to pass these bills and to prove that in the digital age, liberty still lives where Americans stand as our forefathers promised. I encourage other potential victims to come forward. Potential victims may contact South Carolina State Law Enforcement Division lead investigator directly. Her name is Haley Nelson. Her email is hn nelson.sc.gov. Hnelson.c sc.gov.
▶ 0:47:36My office has a tip line that remains active for those who believe they may have been recorded, assaulted, or otherwise victimized by Patrick Bryant and any of his business partners. That number is 843-2127048. I would run through a brick wall to protect women and girls in South Carolina.
▶ 0:48:03And to other potential victims, I want you to know I have your back and I yield back. I will now recognize the ranking member for her opening statement. Uh thank you, Madame Chair. Before I begin, um, I want to take a moment to acknowledge the strength of women who come forward to share their experiences with abuse and violations of privacy.
▶ 0:48:27Their stories remind us of the responsibility we all share to create a world where safety and dignity are never in question. No woman should ever feel unsafe, whether in public or private life. And I think that it is fair to say that we both agree that everyone has the right to be safe from prying eyes, electronic or real, in private places.
▶ 0:48:52When someone checks into a hotel or a short-term rental, they have a reasonable expectation that they will not be watched or recorded. It shocks me that we even need to have this conversation, but this is the world we live in. What's more, new technology has only made it easier for bad actors to abuse our trust. Cameras are smaller, cheaper, and harder to spot than ever.
▶ 0:49:14Although the largest companies in the industry have explicitly prohibited surveillance cameras inside of properties, too many bad actors have continuously been non-compliant. A CNN report found that Airbnb may have received as many as 35,000 complaints about cameras and sides of rentals on their platform. This isn't just invasive, it's traumatizing. Having hidden cameras in private spaces is not about security.
▶ 0:49:44It's not about making sure guests don't throw outrageous parties on the property. Outside cameras would accomplish that. No, this is about invading someone's personal privacy. The lack of clear national standards allow platforms and hosts to operate under a patchwork of inconsistent rules, leaving consumers vulnerable. Women are often the primary targets of harassment and surveillance. And the ways technology can be employed to harass and surveil women extend beyond hidden cameras in hotel rooms.
▶ 0:50:14For example, the National Organization for Women recently released a report finding that a quarter of American women have experienced abuse online, including sexual harassment, cyber stalking, and other threats. Women of color reported experience the highest rates of online abuse. However, all communities are not impacted by the surveillance in the same way.
▶ 0:50:42Black and brown communities are disproportionately surveiled by law enforcement using surveillance cameras. These systems frequently leverage racial recognition technology, which has shown significant error rates when analyzing individuals with black and brown skin tones.
▶ 0:50:59One study found that the error rate for facial recognition technology when used on light-skinned men was less than 1 in 100, while the error rate when used for darkerkinned women was nearly 35%. This discrepancy raises serious questions about the possibility that surveillance technology will be used to unfairly target minority communities. Cameras that misidentify people do not create law and order.
▶ 0:51:27they only put more people at risk. I appreciate the opportunity this hearing brings to discuss the ways that surveillance technology can be used to target women in other minority communities. I ask my Republican colleagues to join me in thinking about the ways that this technology should be regulated to stop its misuse. As lawmakers, we cannot stand by while surveillance technology evolves unchecked.
▶ 0:51:55With the rise of AIdriven monitoring tools, we must act decisively to close loopholes that allow consumer-facing platforms to profit at the expense of personal privacy. Let me clear. Every American has a fundamental right to privacy, especially in personal spaces like bedrooms, bathrooms, and living areas.
▶ 0:52:22Renting a home, whether for a weekend or a month or walking down the street in your neighborhood, should never require sacrificing that right. Thank you, Chairwoman Mace, for raising these concerns about surveillance technology and women's safety and privacy. I look forward to today's conversation. And with that, I yield back. Thank you so much. I'm pleased to introduce our witnesses for today's hearing. Our first witness today is Mr.
▶ 0:52:49Joseph Lassoursa, founder and president of Lassoursa and Associates. Our second witness is Miss Laura Chadwick, president and chief executive officer of the Travel Technology Association. And our third witness today is Mr. Alan Butler, executive director and president of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. Welcome everyone and we're pleased to have you this afternoon. Pursuant to committee rule 9G, the witnesses, if you'll please stand and raise your right hands.
▶ 0:53:17Will you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, but nothing but the truth to help you, God? Let the record show that the witnesses all answered in the affirmative. We appreciate all of you for being here today. You may be seated. And we look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements and they will appear in full in the hearing record. Please limit your oral statements to five minutes. As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that is on and the members up here can hear you.
▶ 0:53:47When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your five minutes has expired and we would ask you to please wrap up. I now recognize Mr. Lassorsa for his opening statement. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee and discuss a growing concern in our increasingly connected society. covert surveillance in private and temporary spaces. My name is Joseph Lorsa.
▶ 0:54:15I spent the past 15 years in the field of personal protection, security consulting, technical surveillance countermeasures, and privacy protection supporting both corporate and individual clients across the United States and abroad. I'm here to speak today about the ease in which covert surveillance can be conducted utilizing commercially available technology and how this capability threatens the expectation of privacy in short-term and temporary rentals such as Airbnbs, verbos, and even hotel rooms. Technical surveillance is nothing new.
▶ 0:54:44First instances of which have occurred as far back as the Civil War when Abraham Lincoln's telegram lines were tapped. However, modern technology has become increasingly accessible, inexpensive, no longer in the domain of government's corporate espionage. Small highdefinition cameras and audio recorders can be purchased online for less than $100.
▶ 0:55:04These devices are mass-produced, often marketed as tools for legitimate purposes such for home, such as for home security or child monitoring, but no verification of how or where they are utilized exists. This accessibility creates an environment in where an individual, regardless of intent, can obtain and deploy highly effective covert surveillance equipment with minimal effort or technical skill.
▶ 0:55:26As someone who routinely performs technical surveillance countermeasures inspections, or bug sweeps of offices, residences, and short-term rentals, I can confirm that these hidden cameras disguised as smoke detectors, alarm clocks, power adapters, everyday common devices are found in places where individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
▶ 0:55:45Uh before me here in the counter there are several devices such as uh carbon monoxide detectors, power adapters and even a uh computer mouse which is used for surveillance. Currently uh US laws regulating the manufacturer, sale and use of surveillance devices are outdated and insufficient. They presume lawful intent and typically do not restrict possession.
▶ 0:56:08In many states, the legality of surveillance is tied to consent, but that consent is often ambiguous in the context of short-term rentals where the renter is unaware of being monitored in common spaces. This legal loophole creates a fundamental misalignment between the letter of the law and the reasonable expectation of privacy. Homeowners would never be expected to tolerate surveillance within the privacy of their own homes.
▶ 0:56:31Similarly, individuals who temporarily rent a space, whether for a weekend stay or during travel, should be granted that same reasonable expectation of privacy. During such occupancy, that space effectively becomes their private residence. While some laws prohibit surveillance in inherently private areas such as bedrooms, bathrooms, and closets, the allowance of covert monitoring in so-called common areas like living rooms, and kitchens, often without the renters's knowledge of consent, undermines personal dignity, autonomy, and legal protections. This issue is not hypothetical.
▶ 0:57:02Multiple documented cases have revealed hidden surveillance devices in private rental properties. To help restore and reinforce the public's trust and the use of temporary spaces, the following is recommended. Establish a f federal privacy expectation standard for short-term rentals mirroring the protections afforded to long-term tenants and hotel guests. requiring full disclosure of any surveillance devices in any rented property regardless of whether they are placed and whether or not they are covert and require signed and informed consent from renters.
▶ 0:57:32Ban the use of surveillance devices in bedrooms and bathrooms of any rental or temporary living space, including common areas where sleeping or personal activities may occur. Clarify penalties for covert surveillance of any individuals in temporary dwellings without clear and voluntary consent. In conclusion, privacy is a foundational right and its erosion in temporary living spaces threatens not only individual freedoms but also the integrity of platforms and industries which depend on public trust.
▶ 0:58:00Efforts must be made to close the legal and technological gap which has allowed covert surveillance to flourish unchecked and short-term rentals. Thank you for the opportunity to share these insights. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. I'll now recognize Miss Chadwick for her opening Thank you. Thank you, Chairwoman Mace. I am so sorry that you have had this experience in your life.
▶ 0:58:27Um the stories that you um have shared and of yours and of the other women are a nightmare. Um you are a survivor and you are brave and I thank you as a woman for bringing this to light. Thank you. I didn't come for this fight. I didn't want it, but here we are. and I'm gonna fight for women and girls like hell. I'm gonna fight like hell for them all across the country. So, thank you for being here today.
▶ 0:58:51My name is Laura Chadwick and I have served as president and CEO of the Travel Technology Association known as Traveltech since October 2022. Traveltech is the voice of the travel technology industry, advocating for public policies that promote transparency, competition, and consumer choice. For over 25 years, Traveltech has advocated for these values.
▶ 0:59:16Our members include online travel agents, meta search engines, short-term rental platforms, travel management companies, and global distribution systems as well as early stage travel tech startups. Many of our consumer-facing marketplace plat are marketplace platforms that connect travel service suppliers with wouldbe travelers online, facilitating information sharing and e-commerce.
▶ 0:59:43Suppliers such as hotels, airlines, and short-term rental owner operators choose to provide their listings on our members platforms. Millions of consumers visit these sites to easily research travel options, compare, and book their travel. It is on our members platforms where travel service providers directly compete which in turn helps keep travel affordable for everyday Americans.
▶ 1:00:09It is important to note that Traveltech does not represent individual short-term rental owner operators, travel agencies or hotels. Traveltech is the trade association for the leading travel platforms in the United States. Tribal Tech's advocacy on behalf of its members focuses on platform related issues such as mandatory and ancillary fee transparency and industry competition.
▶ 1:00:37However, the purpose of my testimony today is to speak broadly about the policies that travel tech member companies facilitating short-term rental bookings have in place to help protect guests from surveillance in private spaces. I am not here to represent any one member but to speak for the industry at large. I want to make it clear as I said in my opening um that this is an issue that um deeply resonates with me.
▶ 1:01:07I want to make it clear that secret recordings of any unsuspecting person in any private space is wrong. Individuals who engage in such conduct um engage in such conduct um violate fundamental human rights wherever secret recordings occur. Be it in a hotel locker room, retail establishment, medical setting, or even in an airplane restroom. As a woman and a mother, I am deeply concerned about this issue.
▶ 1:01:37Our members company, our member companies are likewise focused on these issues. Having policies in place to help protect guest safety and privacy is their priority. One of the many benefits of a short-term rental lodging is that the properties come in various configurations, offering consumers a wide range of choice to meet their needs and budget. Common configurations include a full house or apartment where all the space is considered private.
▶ 1:02:07Another popular configuration is a private room within a house or apartment with shared common space. For all of these configurations and others, our members have unequivocal policies to help protect guests in these private spaces. Surveillance devices are prohibited full stop. This means for entire house or apartment rentals, no surveillance devices are allowed anywhere inside.
▶ 1:02:35in private rented rooms within a house or an apartment. This means no surveillance devices too. Further, no cameras are allowed outside that record guests inside. And our members also have policies for outdoor facing surveillance devices like doorbell cameras, and they require that they be disclosed upfront to guests.
▶ 1:03:03Violations of these policies are infrequent, but when a guest does report an alleged hidden camera, our members take it extremely seriously. They encourage guests to report actions by short-term rental owner operators that violate the platform surveillance policies, and our members invest the guests report and address it accordingly. This can include removing the property from the platform.
▶ 1:03:26Our members provide resources to help guests report incidents to law enforcement and cooperate with police as they as they investigate. Chairman Chairwoman Mace, we look forward to working with you with the Stop Foyers Act. Um, and I thank you for the opportunity to testify to at today's hearing and I look forward to answering our questions to the best of my ability. Thank you. I'll now recognize Mr. Butler for his opening Thank you, Chairwoman Mason.
▶ 1:03:55To the members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today about this critical issue of privacy threats posed by recording and monitoring in shared spaces. My name is Alan Butler and I'm the executive director at the Electronic Privacy Information Center. EPIC is an independent nonprofit research organization established in 1994 to secure the right to privacy in the digital age for all people. This hearing addresses a critical question that has been the central focus of modern privacy law since it was first developed more than a century ago.
▶ 1:04:25How can the law preserve our right to be let alone as technologies evolve and make it surveillance easier and less expensive and harder to avoid? The stakes are high and those of us working to protect against abuse and provide meaningful guard rails on these powerful technologies should work together to establish safety standards and defend privacy. Privacy law as we know it today was developed in response to the widespread adoption of camera technology at the turn of the 20th century.
▶ 1:04:51When Samuel Warren and Lewis Brand Louis Brandeise published the right to privacy in 1890, they were concerned that the onset of these new recording devices would mean that what is whispered in the closet should be proclaimed from the housetops. The response was to establish the theoretical foundation for the individual right to privacy against such intrusions. And this right has been enshrined in laws and cases over the intu ensuing decades.
▶ 1:05:14The laws continue to evolve over the last century as technological developments have enabled new methods of surveillance and data collection and policymakers have responded in kind when necessary by restricting the use of these technologies and enabling public oversight. For example, Congress passed the Wiretap Act in 1968 to regulate both government and private sector uses of telephone interception systems. We have witnessed a profound shift towards widescale surveillance in the 50 years since the wiretap act was passed.
▶ 1:05:40In 2002, Epic launched a campaign called Observing Surveillance to document the widespread use of surveillance cameras in our nation's capital. And that trend has increased exponentially with the marketing of direct to consumer and directto business camera products. It would be hard to lead a similar campaign today because cameras are omnipresent, smaller, and harder to detect than ever. And now even inexpensive cameras can capture detailed pictures at a distance.
▶ 1:06:04What's more, camera systems can now be integrated with facial recognition technology and other AI best aced analytics and tracking capabilities. Many of the devices in our homes, offices, and community spaces now have built-in sensors that pose significant threats to privacy. Recording devices have become much smaller and more precise than ever. And software makes it possible to analyze and even clone our voices for mal malicious purposes. And even when microphones aren't present, we can still be exposed.
▶ 1:06:31Data about our precise location can reveal our movements, our social activities, our beliefs, and our health status. Location data is routinely generated by our cell phones and embedded sensors around us. The rapid expansion of cloud storage capacity has made storing thousands of hours of video, audio, and other sensor data trivial. So where in the past a CCTV surveillance camera might have captured a relatively low resolution image and stored it for a few days, now high resolution images are stored for months or years.
▶ 1:07:00These developments have led to a significant loss of practical control over when and how images, recordings, and other information about our conversations and actions are being collected. And these capabilities have been used to malicious and abuse events. It is unfortunate unfortunately not surprising that those who seek to control, manipulate, and abuse others are ready and willing to use these technologies against their victims. It is important to raise awareness of these risks, but we should also demand that those who design these systems work to mitigate their these harms.
▶ 1:07:29Thoughtful product design can help to prevent some of these harms, including by clearly indicating when a device is recording or by alerting a user that a tracking device is following them. But the law should also protect individuals against malicious users who could circumvent these protections. Today's laws do not adequately limit the collection, retention, and use of personal data collected by devices in public and shared spaces. The right to limit monitoring, and tracking has been more limited in semi-public spaces than in private ones.
▶ 1:07:54And this is in part due to the interplay between privacy and speech rights which limit our ability to penalize the dissemination of certain information. But substantial progress has been made in the last decade to combat the scourge of im image-based sexual abuse and other related intimate privacy violations. Just this week, the Take It Down Act was signed into law criminalizing the non-consensual distribution of intimate images at the federal level. The defense and preservation of privacy has always relied upon the intertwined efforts of lawmakers, technologists, advocates, and individuals.
▶ 1:08:24As new threats emerge, we have to work to adapt our standards to preserve privacy protections. And we find ourselves now in a period where the rapid expansion of pervasive computing has embedded tracking capabilities in our lived environment. This is a time for action to ensure that we as individuals do not fall victim to the eradication of privacy by the path of least resistance. We appreciate the opportunity to draw public attention to these issues and to assist the subcommittee in this inquiry.
▶ 1:08:48EPIC has focused in recent years on the need for strong data minimization standard to protect individuals against the risks of overcolction and authorized uses of their data. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and I look forward to your questions. Thank you. I'll now recognize Miss Boowbert for five minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you so much for your testimony and for holding this hearing today. Um I I truly hope that the efforts that you are putting forward um not only bring justice to victims and yourself um but also protect women in the future. So thank you. Thank you.
▶ 1:09:18Thank you for the to our witnesses who are here as well. Um Mr. uh Lassora, would you agree that u most Americans expect privacy when um they rent a home or or stay at um an Airbnb or in a hotel? Yes. And um are cheap consumer grade surveillance uh tools now small and advanced enough to avoid detection uh without specialized equipment?
▶ 1:09:45Uh not only small enough to avoid detection, but they also just hide in plain sight. So like the devices you see here, people just don't think to look there. I would like for you to explain some of the devices that you brought with you today if you don't mind. Sure. So, uh, cameras can be so small, uh, and that if they're powered, that is batteries can have to still be fairly large. But the cameras, if they're powered, can be very, very, very small. So, they can be hidden in almost anything. So, such as the picture up there looks like it's almost mounted high like a smoke detector or something like that.
▶ 1:10:13That's very common, hidden in smoke detectors, exit signs, and other things. These devices here, this one's hidden in a carbon monoxide detector, several chargers, and a computer mouse. So those devices, people don't think to look there. So even if they had tools or anything else, they typically wouldn't look there, if that makes sense. And are common bug detectors uh effective in finding these devices? For commercially grade equipment, they are. Uh however, it takes a little bit of skill to do it right.
▶ 1:10:42Almost everything nowadays has some type of transmission, some type of, you know, Bluetooth connectivity. So there's a lot of false positives. So, if you don't know exactly what you're looking for, it's kind of a needle in a stack of needles nowadays with smart homes. Understood. Uh, thank you, Miss Miss Chadwick. When your platform um catches a host secretly recording guests, do you immediately ban that host um and notify the guests who were spied on?
▶ 1:11:07Um when that occurs, when uh the guest reports it to our our plat our member um our members provide um immediate assistance to the guest. Um individual investigations are determined uh on a case-byase basis. As Mr. Lassoursa just said, um there are um there are potential for false positives.
▶ 1:11:34Um and so as I said um those those have have there been true positives and and have those hosts been banned or if there were to be one? Um I I am not able to speak to individual company um policies or procedures or about particular incidences.
▶ 1:11:54But what I can tell you is that our members take these reports very seriously um and immediately provide resources to guests to contact law So I mean I guess we're we're not going to get an answer if anyone has ever been banned, but let's say hypothetically to not expose um those who are on your platform. Um hypothetically if it was a true positive and law enforcement were involved, would you ban that host?
▶ 1:12:22I I I believe that is certainly um an option. It's an option. Yes. But would you ban them from your platform if that were if I mean I I can't speak to how each individual company would do it. Okay. But I um as I believe I said in my testimony that does include banning from the platform. Okay. Mr. Butler, are certain demographics, particularly um women and girls, more likely to be targeted um by covert surveillance uh in these environments?
▶ 1:12:52I I think that history certainly bears that out. I think that that um there is an inherent power dynamic in the use of some of these technologies and you're you're definitely seeing uh certain populations targeted more than others, especially for intimate uh privacy violations and image based sexual abuse. Thank you, Mr. Butler. And uh one last question, Mr. uh Lassoursa.
▶ 1:13:14Um, do you believe that our our current laws are um effective enough to protect people from from being secret secretly recorded um in semi-private even areas? And if not, uh what suggestions would you make to strengthen that law and further enforce them? To directly answer, no. Uh the the largest issue that I see is that there is a legitimate use for covert surveillance cameras. So, say for instance, we buy these to see how we can find them and everything else.
▶ 1:13:41One of the latest ones that I purchased was a exit sign Wi-Fi camera. However, that was marketed as a security camera for an office, which is a legitimate use. So, that's the the common issue that I see is there is a legitimate use. So, how do you define, you know, what somebody is actually going to do with it if they can legally purchase it. Further, uh most of the devices that we've actually found, the individual takes the claim that they didn't know it was illegal because they were able to purchase it due to that legitimate use.
▶ 1:14:08So that's what I would highly recommend is trying to clarify the uh the intent and use cases of surveillance devices, but I don't see an easy pathway there considering the amount of legitimate use cases. Thank you very much. I yield. I will now recognize Mr. Subar Manum for 5 minutes. Uh thank you, Madam Chair, and and I'm very sorry about your experience and I hope you are able to find justice. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um I'd love to hear from Mr.
▶ 1:14:36source sort of what legislation already exists that has addressed this. Um you had some ideas in your testimony and so I'd love to hear from you kind of what you think we can do in Congress to help address this. Sure. So there are uh various laws which were written in the late 60s7s.
▶ 1:14:55uh the uh title 18 US code I believe it's chapter 119 um 2510 identifies what a covert device is but again it doesn't get into the intent behind it and the manufacturer and sale of legitimate use cases versus illegitimate. So uh that being the case as we are focused here on uh private spaces and temporary rentals uh what I would recommend is establishing a federal standard for privacy.
▶ 1:15:20So most states uh I can't speak to all states obviously there's a lot of them but there the uh the most states have a a expectation of privacy as a basis for their laws that is the let's say the issue between stateto state.
▶ 1:15:34So what is actually considered private is it as uh Miss Chadwick mentioned the common spaces that's different in a lot of states as far as if it's a if you can rent a room and the common spaces are shared between different people that can rent rooms or is it the common space of a home like a kitchen or a you know living room is that technically a common space so that federal standard I think should should be worked towards uh establishing a federal standard for privacy. H how does one define a a private area?
▶ 1:16:04Because um if in a situation where someone's taking a victim to the living room um knowing that that might be a private area and they can surveil there, how how do you kind of um address that? The uh in my testimony here, what the the simple way that I looked at it was if you were in your home and you expected to not be surveiled by somebody else, I think that's kind of the limit there. So if you're in your home um you know, if you're standing near an open window, there's not an expectation of privacy.
▶ 1:16:31If you're in a space in your home where somebody where they're legally allowed to be can't see you and you have a let's say there there may be personal things that might occur there. I think that that's what what should define the line. And then this is for anyone. How can someone protect themselves right now? You mentioned earlier there's devices but it's very difficult to use them. Like what can people do right now um to protect themselves and and unsure that whether or not they're being surveiled?
▶ 1:16:59If I may start, I start with just advising people of the the lack of protections and that they may be exposed to this. So for instance, just to put this in context, uh we do travel security risk assessments. So if I have a client traveling to say China, we don't tell them to look for the devices. We tell them to be aware that they are under surveillance. So the same practice almost exists if we're trying to inform people and protect people as they travel and rent Airbnbs, verbose, etc.
▶ 1:17:25We say just act like you're under surveillance because you you can't expect privacy in a lot of these places. Would anyone else like to comment on that? Okay. Um I yield my remainder of my time. Thank you. Thank you. I'll now recognize Mr. Crane for five minutes. Uh thank you uh Mr. Chairwoman for holding this uh very important hearing. And again, like everyone else, I apologize for uh what what you went through and I too hope you get justice. Thank you.
▶ 1:17:55Um Mr. Lassora, you've spoken a lot about some of the privacy concerns with basic common technology that many Americans use in their homes like ring cameras, alarm clocks, smoke detectors, and how to detect breaches and abuses. In your experience conducting inspections and bug sweeps, what's something people would least expect that has become a huge privacy threat with some of those common technologies? Uh mostly the I would say the uh the the audio that goes with it.
▶ 1:18:25So a lot of people seem to expect some type of video surveillance like being seen through a window for instance, but the audio part of that as well. A lot of these devices are audio capable and a lot of the people that even use these devices are unaware of the um excess uh legality of audio versus video. So for instance, where you're allowed to video doesn't necessarily mean that you're allowed to audio record, if I'm saying that right.
▶ 1:18:47So the audio, you know, what you're saying being recorded, I think is the um a large surprise to a lot of people that they were recorded being what they said was recorded if I'm explaining that correctly. Are there any uh products that you can buy to actually put covers over those so that you're not being video recorded? Some of the products you have in front of you, I believe you have a power strip, a smoke detector, a mouse, a cell phone charger. Right. Most of these what we would recommend people to do is simply unplug them.
▶ 1:19:17I don't recommend that you, you know, damage or or, you know, completely remove anybody's personal property from a rented property. However, these can simply be unplugged and covered with there. I don't not sure if there's any uh tools to specifically cover them, but you can unplug it and put it in a closet or drawer somewhere or something like that. Yeah. Okay.
▶ 1:19:37There have been over 35,000 reports to Airbnb on surveillance devices at Reynolds as of 2024, and we've seen terrible cases of abuse, such as a man in Michigan was caught filming women in a tanning salon in 2021 and posting that footage to an adult website. Earlier this year, a school security coordinator faced felony charges for installing a camera in a girl's locker room in Wisconsin.
▶ 1:20:01An exchange student in West Virginia was spied on in her personal bathroom for a disguised camera purchase from Amazon in 2023. Concerning some of these particularly egregious examples, how can people protect themselves against these privacy threats? Mostly what we recommend is again being aware of the laws and how loose they are.
▶ 1:20:22So to be aware of, you know, that the fact that you are likely under video surveillance in such areas and then to be aware of any devices like you see here and like again uh exit signs, smoke detectors, things like that to be aware if they're different. So mostly if we see these devices installed somewhere, the overwhelming majority are in addition to what's already there. So for instance, a smoke detector camera. There's a legitimate smoke detector in the room and there's an additional smoke detector which is the actual camera. That's mostly what we see.
▶ 1:20:52So that gets you the majority of the way there in terms of being aware and looking for extra devices that perhaps are are um in duplicate and different. We're talking a lot about Airbnbs today, but have you have you also encountered these at hotel chains and other places? Anybody? Would you say one is more predominant than the other?
▶ 1:21:19In my experience, uh, the Airbnbs, Verbos, those are, uh, I would say the majority of cases where we've looked, we've found something. Do corporations that operate large hotels, do they have their own security teams that will go through just to make sure employees aren't installing some of this type of uh, technology? I'm not aware if they have a dedicated team to that, but uh, in my experience, they are very concerned with it.
▶ 1:21:46Obviously, there's a um a large backlash if this does get out. So, that is certainly a concern of theirs. Yes, Mr. Butler, you spoke specifically about how recording devices have become smaller and more precise, and cloud storage capacity makes it shockingly easy to store thousands of hours of video and audio footage? How does the lack of clear consent requirement make it easier for perpetrators to violate privacy without legal consequences? Thank you for the question, Representative.
▶ 1:22:15think that um it's a layered problem. I mean, the the fact that you have in many of these instances, not all, in some of these instances, you have the perpetrator involved, um makes the the consent question under current law complicated because a lot of the current law we have is focused on the privacy of communications between parties, right?
▶ 1:22:37So if in many states you have one party consent which means that if two people are talking that one person um is not violating the law if they record that conversation. Now in other states you have two-party consent which doesn't allow surreptitious recording of conversations unless both people consent. Um so that's one element of of the the the problem of disentangling consent in these cases. And I think um another as Mr.
▶ 1:23:03Lazorsa mentioned is the lack of clarity in especially in common law and tort claims around um defining those expectations especially in spaces that are not specifically the home of the victim. Um and that's something that I think that that really statutory law has to step in to fix. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. And I will now recognize myself for five minutes. Uh Mr. Lorsa, can you show us some of those hidden camera devices that you brought with you today?
▶ 1:23:32Can you just show them? Yes, ma'am. So, this is a Wi-Fi camera with audio as well as we spoke about with Mr. Crane. So, this has a microphone and camera in it. So, you can place this. You have a mouse, too. Yeah, computer mouse. That one's actually a cell phone inside of it. So, that this is actually an audio recorder that uh you would simply call it. And you got a little black thing you plug into the wall. You do. Yes. And that way it's currently powered. So, Oh, this one. This one is a um typical cell phone charger, but it has a Wi-Fi camera in it.
▶ 1:24:02And the the last one, the big white one, it's a power strip with a camera and audio recorder in it. Um can you can you bring would you mind bringing me that up here This one here? Yep. The white one. The big one with the the outlet plug. The outlet plug. Yeah. I want to take a look at it. That is uh this is very interesting. I I'm I'm shaking a little bit.
▶ 1:24:29I um I recognize a device almost identical to this that I believe Patrick Bryant or the owner of this property. There was a device that was just like this is this big and bulky outlet plug. And I'm just realizing it for the first time. It was plugged in over on the wall over here in the center of the room. In the center of the room is where uh he often would record women having with sexual activity in the middle of this camera.
▶ 1:24:59Um it was within feet. Uh I'm going to take a picture of this if you don't mind. I'm going to send it to our state law enforcement division because I uh it looks really familiar. Um it's probably gone now. Probably in the bottom of the ocean. Um, in your opinion, you all here today, if there are properties like this, and if someone's caught filming women naked, should they be kicked off of short-term rental sites? Mr. Lassoursa? AB: Absolutely. Miss Absolutely.
▶ 1:25:29Um, excuse me. Absolutely. Mr. Butler? Yes. Absolutely. I have no idea if this property where all these women were filmed, if it's still on any of these short-term rental sites. If it's not, I hope by the end of day today that it is taken down. Uh these men, these owners who knew that there was a camera, knew women were being filmed could have unplugged it and did not. And these women were filmed for years at this property and they did it without with with impunity.
▶ 1:25:59Um okay. So in terms of, you know, now that I've I've lived through this experience, I travel with a little device I got on Amazon. So when I'm at an Airbnb or VBO or a hotel room um has this little antenna I can pull out and try to find devices. It feels pretty accurate.
▶ 1:26:18Are there any particular products that you all recommend when people are traveling or were there somewhere that where they could there could be a hidden camera that they should use to make sure that they sweep the room on their own uh to make sure there is no are no devices recording them. Mr. Lorsa uh we actually teach and recommend that as well. Uh, so there are several devices which are which are speaking. Is there anyone that you particularly recommend that's particularly good? Not not particularly. No. No. They're all about the same, honestly. Okay. Yes, ma'am.
▶ 1:26:46Miss Chadwick, I'm not familiar with such devices. Mr. Butler? Um, same. I don't have anything specific. You can get them on Amazon pretty cheap. Um, and I've used them and it's they'll find chips uh in places pretty consistently. Um, is it true that someone could hide a surveillance surveillance device today that is no longer bigger than a pen cap? The average person would have no idea they're being watched. And Mr. Lource, I want to thank you for bringing those devices today. It's really shocking.
▶ 1:27:17Um, and I'm literally like physically shaking over this device. Like, I recognize this. I recognize something almost identical to this um that was in that property as well. So, maybe there were up to five recording devices. uh platforms claim they ban unauthorized surveillance, but how do we how do we enforce this, Miss Chadwick? How do we enforce uh surveillance in short-term Um indeed, we have policies that ban them um in any private space.
▶ 1:27:47Um our members have policies um that are, as I said, for every private space. Um, and we also believe as you in in your proposed legislation that we should raise the consequences for such behavior with the hopes of deterring any such behavior. Can owners of properties where they have private cameras like in this one, can they get back on to these apps, these short-term rental sites, once they remove the camera? Is there an appeal process?
▶ 1:28:18Um I I cannot uh speak about our members particular policies and how they um evaluate situations on a case- by case basis. Gotcha. Okay. I want to thank all of our witnesses uh for being here today. Uh my five minutes is up. Um and in in brief uh Mr. Subramanum, I want to say thank you for sticking around with us today. Um, this is when there are cameras recording people without their knowledge, without their permission, without their consent.
▶ 1:28:45Particularly when they're fully unclothed, undressed, doing private things. Um, it's not just about a little chip, a little camera, a little video, a little device. It's lifechanging. The women that I have talked to and identified who are victims of this man men, they're never going to be the same, ever. and they still don't have justice. In the state of South Carolina, our laws are $500 for a misdemeanor for this. I'm an elected official.
▶ 1:29:15I was elected when I was filmed here. What the hell was he doing or going to do? Was it for blackmail? Was it to intimidate me? Was it to hold it over my head uh to do something? I have I have no idea what he was going to do with these. I do know he also had access to the dark web based on one of the apps that he had on his devices. Um, I don't know if these videos were sold online on the dark web. I don't know if they were showed to friends.
▶ 1:29:42I don't know if they were sent around at cocktail parties with his business partners. I have no idea who's seen this. But what I do know in this particular video and videos of other women, that one of me was saved for over three years. I had no effing idea. I have evidence today. day of upskirt shots of the wife of a male employee and her genital area that he took from beneath her. He saved those images for almost 10 years.
▶ 1:30:09He categorized these videos, these photos, these images based on who the woman was, her head shot, and then all of her body parts and genital area photos and videos he had. He then put them next to her head shot. He had certain fetishes. He liked to photograph and video the buttocks. He loved the upskirt shots. He loved putting women in the middle of this hidden camera.
▶ 1:30:32I saw video after video after video, years old, before my time, before I ever knew this person of women engaged in sexual activity with him in the center of this camera. and he'd put them on the couch behind me in that image in a certain position so they would be more centered toward the camera and you could see the woman's full naked body in full view as they were engaged in sexual activity. There's no way these women knew.
▶ 1:31:02And in fact, I have witnesses and I have potential victims who saw the camera, this one above the refrigerator, and asked him if they were being filmed and he said no. I also have potential rape victims, allegedly three, and I have witness a witness to some of these activities. This man is a rapist. He's a lawyer. He's a peeping tom. He deserves to be in jail. He deserves everything that's coming to him.
▶ 1:31:26And I'm going to ensure that the his victims, every single victim in South Carolina, that they get their justice and that we have legislation at the federal and the state level that protects victims. I didn't get a victim's rights advocate for 11 months. One of the rape victims didn't get her victim's rights advocate for six months. And um if I could have that um victims have rights. You can't publish their name.
▶ 1:31:56You can't intimidate them. The witness intimidation, the obstruction of justice that I've seen in this investigation is incredible. And I'm documenting all of it. These women deserve better. It's more than a misdemeanor. It should be more than a year in jail. It should be more than a $500 fine. These women's lives have been changed forever. There are some victims who are too afraid to come forward. And I'm going to be their voice.
▶ 1:32:24For the women who have come forward, I want to say your bravery and your courage is immeasurable. I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing this for the women behind me. For the women who will continue to be abused and be victims of a monster. This can never happen again. And I will not allow it on my watch.
▶ 1:32:53And I will work day in and day out, seven days a week, 365 days a year to ensure these men can never harm another woman again with federal legislation and state legislation as well. And come hell or high water, these women will get what they deserve. And I will always have their back. And with that, I conclude this hearing today.
▶ 1:33:18And with that and without objection, all members will have five legislative days within which to submit materials and to submit additional written questions for the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. So if there's no further business, without objection, the subcommittee stands