▶ 0:18:25The uh subcommittee will come to order. Welcome the witnesses and subcommittee members to today's hearing. As I've said many times, the subcommittee is a nonpartisan committee. It is not a bipartisan committee and I'm very thankful for my ranking member, Mr. Papus, for adhering to that. Um we have 17 important legislative proposals to consider here today. It's important to note that not all of these proposals will move forward in the legislative process.
▶ 0:18:52A number of these proposals seek to improve education programs, accessibility to the VA and VA's home loan program. I specifically want to highlight three of my bills that are on today's agenda. My first bill will expand communication outreach methods within the Solid Start program by allowing digital communication so that the VA can increase the ways they connect with veterans. uh America's new generation of veterans, they oftentimes just don't want to pick up the phone. So, we're going to get crazy and allow them to use text messaging.
▶ 0:19:23Uh but we're not going to get rid of the other methods of communications that older generations such as myself are used to, which is a letter in the mail. Um so, in other words, this is additive. Another bill that I have today is the Refinancing Relief for Veterans Act. This legislation will reduce the fee for veterans who are using an interest rate reduction loan or IR RL.
▶ 0:19:50This bill would allow veterans and an even less expensive way to get a mortgage with a lower interest rate. This would have the refinancing half the fee associated with VA home loans, making it easier for veterans to secure better rates. It's the duty of this subcommittee to get money back in the veterans pockets when we can. My final bill is the Enhancing the Transition Service Members Experience Act or ETSs Act. This bill would make improvements to the transition assistance program for service members leaving the military.
▶ 0:20:21This legislation would require data collection on the experience of transitioning service members. We need to have a better understanding of how we are preparing our military members and their families for civilian life. Certain military branches are doing TAP better than others and those uh doing it well are setting their members up for success and individual units are in the different branches are doing things better. So we're going to find the best practices.
▶ 0:20:46Service members leaving the successful branches will show the others uh the value of their military service. The transition assistance program is actually I view it as a retention and recruitment tool. So, when the veterans know that we care about them coming in while they're in and while they're leaving and after they're in their service, that's going to help uh with our recruitment and retention because they go home and they tell their friends.
▶ 0:21:12Additional bills we'll consider would address modernization improvements to the VR& program, VA home loan program, and the GI bill. I have reservations about some of these proposals on the agenda today. the witness's testimony and questions from these uh fellow members will hopefully address some of these issues so we can make informed decisions and move forward with the process. We look forward to hearing from the members who are here and introduce these proposals as well as our witnesses on how we can continue to improve the bills and better the lives of our veterans.
▶ 0:21:40I now yield to ranking member Papus for as much time as he would consume for his opening remarks. Thank you very much, Chairman Van Orton, for holding this legislative hearing on a number of issues covered by the Economic Opportunities Subcommittee. On the agenda today, there are several bills that improve support for veterans education and job training, including my bipartisan bill HR 2954, Veterans Transition to Trucking Act, which will expedite the approval process for truck driving apprenticeship programs that have multi-state locations.
▶ 0:22:09Currently, interstate trucking companies must get approval from every state they operate in for veterans to use their VA education benefits for apprenticeship programs at that company. This legislation will cut unnecessary red tape and allow interstate commercial carriers to get one approval for all their apprenticeship programs from VA, simplifying the administration of these programs so that veterans can become truck drivers more easily. I thank Representative Kiggins for partnering with me on this important legislation and the chairman for including this bill on the agenda.
▶ 0:22:37I also want to thank Senators Blumenthal and Cassidy for introducing the bipartisan bill in the Senate. I hope we can all continue to work together to get this passed into law. Other bills I wish to highlight includes include Congressman Vasquez's the Veteran Education Assistance Adjustment Act, which increases the book and supplies stipen from $1,000 to $1,400 per year. We all know that things cost more today than they did even a year ago, but the book stipend has remained the same since the post 911 GI Bill was enacted in 2008.
▶ 0:23:07Congresswoman Bazinski's HR 2034, the Edith Edith North Rogers STEM Scholarship Opportunity Act, makes the requirements for the scholarship program more accessible for students pursuing rigorous STEM fields. Lastly, Congressman Kennedy's HR 2720, the Goldstar Family Education Parody Act, reduces the challenges faced by surviving dependents by matching their educational benefits with those offered under the post 911 GI Bill.
▶ 0:23:32Under the existing Chapter 35 survivors and dependents educational assistance, gold star families are often left with a less generous education benefit while simultaneously dealing with their loss. So by expanding this V benefit to surviving dependents, families can pursue the education and training they need to secure gainful employment following the loss of a loved one. Our veterans need additional support to keep up with the cost of living and education expenses are certainly no exception. So I urge members of this subcommittee to support veterans education and training by supporting these bills.
▶ 0:24:02Lastly, I want to remind the subcommittee that during last month's full committee hearing with Secretary Collins, he committed to addressing veterans homelessness. We don't want to lose the gains already made toward ending veteran homelessness, and we have a legislative solution to continue this momentum. Representative Dexter's Every Veteran Housed Act. This bill expands eligibility for support services to anyone who served in uniform and received anything but a dis dishonorable discharge.
▶ 0:24:26By expanding the eligibility criteria to cover more veterans, we helped those who served our nation get back on their feet and live with dignity and respect. So, I thank the chairman, our colleagues, and our witnesses for their time today. These are important policy issues that we're trying to solve for veterans to make the best use of their earned benefits. And I look forward to working with the subcommittee for continued progress on these issues. And I yield back. Gentleman yields back. I'll now introduce the witness panel. Our first witness is Dr. Liz Clark, acting director of defense support services center at the Department of Defense.
▶ 0:24:56Our next witness is Mr. Nick Pamperin, executive director of veterans readiness and employment at the Department of Veterans Affairs, accompanied by Mr. Thomas Alfonso, assistant director of policy and procedures with education services at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I ask the witnesses please to stand or raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the You may be seated. Thank you. Uh the record will reflect the witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
▶ 0:25:26I'll ask the witness witnesses and members today to respect the five-minute rule. Dr. Clark, you're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony. Chairman Van Orton, rank member Papus, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss enhancing the transitioning service members experience act. The department is committed to supporting our war fighters and their families as they navigate the transition from military to civilian life. TAP is the essential foundation of that support and sets the conditions for successful transition.
▶ 0:25:57Each year, TAP provides approximately 200,000 service members with a common level of support regardless of location military service or and at over 200 locations around the globe. The overarching result is that today's TAP provides service members more comprehensive transition preparation, information, support, and services than at any time during our nation's history.
▶ 0:26:20TAP provides broad-ranging information, training, resources, and support that effectively prepare service members for success as they navigate through the challenges, and opportunities presented during the transition from active duty to civilian life. This support enables and empowers service members to leverage their skills, knowledge, and abilities to reach their full potential, achieve individual post-transition goals, and continue to serve our nation as successful veterans who strengthen our local communities and our nation.
▶ 0:26:48Since its inception in 1991, TAP has undergone extensive changes to ensure it is relevant, agile, and ever improving to meet the needs of transitioning service members. Tap design ensures both flexibility and relevance. The flexibility afforded by current TAP design allows the tailoring of the transition process to the individual needs and goals while ensuring that service members receive information and resources that best support individualized preparation for transition.
▶ 0:27:15TAP stays relevant through the focus on preparation for civilian life and ensuring service member buyin and active participation. In short, TAP works. TAP works in large part because of the TAP's inter agency dynamic and collaboration and partnership. A best-in-class example of effective federal agency collaboration and service delivery. The TAP inter agency delivers TAP as an individualized robust program with alternate pathways and multiple levels of assistance.
▶ 0:27:43Each step of the process is guided by TAP counselors trained in providing employment, education, and entrepreneur guidance and assistance, allowing service members to be in control of their transition and utilize programs, resources, and information that fit their specific needs and align with their post-transition goals. Military to civilian transition is a ever evolving, complex, and multiaceted environment in which the variety of individual goals equals the number of transitioning service members.
▶ 0:28:11TAP is and must remain adaptive while ensuring programmatic focus on three foundational and complimentary tenants. Effective counseling, service member buyin, and meaningful support connections throughout the transition period. Therefore, TAP will maintain emphasis on individualized approach that best meets the service members post-transition goals. To that end, TAP will remain innovative, responsive, transparent, and collaborative.
▶ 0:28:37The department will continuously improve transition services and support by working with the service members, the military services, inter agency partners, non-governmental entities, and Congress. Transitioning from military service to veteran status is not just a professional priority for me. It's deeply personal. As an Army officer who has served in the active component, the reserves, and the National Guard, I have lived the challenges that come with taking off the uniform, but still carrying the mission.
▶ 0:29:04During my time working in suicide prevention, I had the distinct honor of speaking with those navigating through transition, those who have experienced suicide related behaviors, and families who have endured heartbreaking losses. These conversations have stayed with me. They remind me every day that this work is critical, and I'm fully committed on both a personal and professional level to strengthening strengthening the partnerships and policies that support our veterans.
▶ 0:29:29It is our duty to ensure that those who served return to communities that uplift them, systems that support them in a nation that continues to benefit from their strength. In closing, Mr. Chairman, I thank you, Ranking Member Papus, and the members of the subcommittee for your outstanding and continuing support of the men and women who proudly wear the uniform in defense of our great nation. I'm truly honored to speak with you today, and I look forward to your questions. The general lady yields back. The written statement of Dr. Clark will be entered into the hearing record. Mr.
▶ 0:29:59Pampin, you're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Good morning, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papis, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting us here today to present our V views on bills affecting VA programs and benefits. Joining me today is Mr. Tom Alfonso, assistant director at education service at the Veterans Benefits Administration.
▶ 0:30:22While VA's views on all of the bills are detailed in my written testimony, I would like to highlight a few bills that would have profound effect on our delivery of services to veterans, survivors, and their family members. VA offers support for much of the proposed legislation before us today. First, VA supports HR 3579, the Veterans Readiness and Employment Integrity Act, which would establish a 180day time limit for employment assistance. Veterans demonstrate the highest engagement in their job search within the first 3 to six months of placement services.
▶ 0:30:53This is also the time frame in which the majority of VR& participants find employment. VA also proposes that the Congress apply the 180day limitation to counseling placement and post-playment services addressed in the regulation which can currently be provided for up to 18 months. This would ensure a more targeted approach maximizing the effectiveness of the program. VA supports but cites significant concerns with HR 3387 enhancing the transitioning service members experience act.
▶ 0:31:23VA supports the bill's overall intent, specifically the personalized support for at risk service members and creating a TAP resource website. However, VA does not support certain sections due to resource and logistical concerns, including unannounced audits of pre-eparation counseling and additional counseling for military spouses outside of normal hours.
▶ 0:31:43VA defers to DoD and DHS on several areas, but in summary, while we endorse the intent, several practical and resource challenges must be addressed for effective VA does not support HR 3384, the refinancing relief for veterans act. VA collects loan fees to fund housing loan operations and reduce taxpayer liabilities for loans guaranteed, insured, or made by VA, and the need for the adjustment of the interest rate reduction refinance loan or Earl.
▶ 0:32:10VA sites concern with the Earl statutory loan fee rate since this bill would first decrease then increase the Earl loan rate fee. It is not clear how VA to VA how these adjustments would in the long term benefit the veteran, the VA home loan program or the taxpayer. Also, the bill would result in costly and timeconsuming system changes for both lenders and VA. Anytime a statutory loan rate fee rate changes, VA systems are required to ensure VA calculates and charges the correct fee.
▶ 0:32:39Lenders generally require up to 120 days or more lead time for program changes to their systems and additional training anytime there is a change to the funding fee rate. VA also does not support HR 2720 the gold star family education parody act. While VA supports the concept of consolidating chapter 35 and 33 educational assistance programs into a single benefit.
▶ 0:33:01VA would not be able to implement this legislation as written because the chapter 35 and 33 programs have considerably different eligibility rules and payment structures which is not addressed in this bill. VA notes several aspects of the bill lack clarity and VA would welcome discussions on a path forward that may satisfy the committee's intent for this legislation. Finally, VA does not support the Every Veteran Housed Act, which aims to expand eligibility for homeless benefits.
▶ 0:33:28While VA strongly agrees with the need to resolve veteran homelessness and is exploring all options to address this issue, VA has some concerns with the bill's provisions. Primarily, current law uses two different statutory definitions for veteran for eligibility purposes by adopting a single definition for all programs and authorities in chapter 20. The bill would alter current terms for more than a dozen different programs. VA believes further coordination and review is necessary before such a significant step is taken.
▶ 0:33:55This expansion would also require additional resources and VA and other agencies have not had the opportunity to determine what these resources would be. We welcome the opportunity to meet with the committee to discuss how VA and Congress can work together to further reduce and eliminate veteran VA appreciates many of the remaining bills on the agenda today and we welcome the opportunity to work with the committee to find a way to resolve the issues we have identified so that we can fully support all of them.
▶ 0:34:22We are grateful for the resources that Congress has provided to VA and pledge to do all that we can to ensure they are used effectively as possible. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. My colleagues and I are prepared to respond to any questions you or the other members of the committee may have. The gentleman yields back. The written statement of Mr. Pampin will be entered into the hearing record. I now recognize ranking member Papus for five minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Pamperin, if I can start with you.
▶ 0:34:47I want to ask a question about uh the GI Bill parody um act and um ask you about VA determining eligibility and amounts of education benefits um under chapter 33 um when a veteran chooses to transfer their benefit to a dependent. Um can you tell me a little bit more about how VA determines that eligibility uh under chapter 33? Mr. Alonso. Uh thanks, sir. I'll take that question.
▶ 0:35:16I think your your question was how do we determine eligibility to transfer benefits? Uh and that is actually a determination that's made while in service. It's on the Department of Defense side. So the military secretaries first have to determine that the service member has met the time in service requirements that are in statute. They then have to commit to an additional four years of service to be eligible.
▶ 0:35:43and then they're authorized to transfer their benefits to their dependent after they complete um those initial service requirements that are in statute. Okay. I'm just wondering um you talked Mr. Pamperin about uh opposition to the bill um because of different eligibility rules, payment structures. Um I'm just wondering since there's already a process for transferring education benefits to dependents, isn't this something that you could work Uh thanks, sir. I I'll take that as well.
▶ 0:36:14Uh there certainly are ways to figure out how this bill could work. Um that is why we said we would welcome the opportunity to work with the committee. As we stated, we agree with moving chapter 35 to 33. Lots of reasons that that's a good idea. We just need to work through those technical parts. So the as it's written, it doesn't give us any guidance for how to do any of those rules.
▶ 0:36:42So that's all we're saying is we would welcome the opportunity to work on technical amendments to get to whatever is the concept Congress wants to pursue there. Okay, sir. So it sounds like you believe it's uh something that can be overcome with further discussion and um some additional language in the legislation. Absolutely, sir. Um, what percentage of GI Bill education funding is going to online programs?
▶ 0:37:10Uh, unfortunately I don't have that number for you, but I can take that for the record. Okay. We'd love to um have a have a good number on that. I'm wondering how many beneficiaries are enrolled in those programs full-time. Uh, again, sir, well, I'll have to take that for the record and get you I'm wondering how VA will know when to pay out full-time housing stipend or only uh half. How would that judgment be made? Yes, sir. Um, that's currently done. Right now, it's through the school.
▶ 0:37:38When the school certifies the students enrollment, they tell us whether the student is enrolled online, solely online, or if they're enrolled in resident. And that then is what we use as our data point to determine the correct payment rate. Okay. So, there's a you you would have a way of determining what more than halfime would mean. Absolutely, sir. Okay.
▶ 0:38:02Um, so I know online education is um, uh, playing a critical role in helping veterans secure uh, a degree and I have a university in my district, Southern New Hampshire University that is a leader in online education uh, enrolls more than 200,000 students online was awarded the 21st century distance learning award by the US Distance Learning Association. They're a good example of highquality accessible educations that uh, veterans deserve.
▶ 0:38:29Many VSOs continue to express concerns about the quality of education offered by bad actors that are seeking to profit off veterans benefits. So wondering if VA has a plan to provide better oversight and quality control of online programs. Yes. Uh thank you sir. The current program we have the state approving agents. Uh they are the the the gatekeepers of quality. So they have standards.
▶ 0:38:56Um there's standards in statute and then each state has the ability to add their own additional reasonable criteria and they ensure that the programs that are approved are of sufficient quality and if they aren't then the program would be disapproved from participation in the GI bill. I've got limited time left. I want to switch to Representative Dexter's legislation, the Every Veteran House Act.
▶ 0:39:22Um, and I'm wondering, um, if you agree with the sentiment that there are veterans experiencing homelessness today because they're ineligible for programs offered through VA. I, excuse me, I appreciate the question. Um, there are certainly veterans who are homeless that currently are not availing of VA homeless benefits. We do support the intent of the legislation. Okay.
▶ 0:39:48So you agree with the intent that expanding to a broader definition would capture more veterans and would help us address the problem of veteran homelessness? Well, I think sir what we need to do is we need to assess the full impact by expanding that and consolidating the definitions down uh down to one and that's why we would need to assess and work with agencies. There are other players who have equity in this to make sure that it is doable. Is it a question of resources?
▶ 0:40:16Um, in all honesty, sir, I'm not the homeless benefits expert. I would have to take that for the record. Okay, we'll talk further about that. I'll I'll yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes Representative Kingheinds for 5 minutes. Thank you, Chairman Venortan, for the opportunity to speak on a critical new piece of legislation HR 3720, the Heroes Owning and Materializing Equity Act of 2025. And thank you for co-leading it with me.
▶ 0:40:44According to the statistics provided by the VA, um, veteran homelessness rose 19% from 2020 to 2022 in the Northern Marana Islands. And I'm sure I'm not the first or the last uh person to say that veteran and homeless should not exist together. When our veterans return home after serving our country, they deserve every opportunity to build a stable and secure life.
▶ 0:41:11For many, that starts with the cornerstone of the American dream, home ownership. The Department of Veterans Affairs home loan program has helped millions of veterans and their families buy homes. It is one of the most impactful benefits that veterans can access. But while the VA home loan opens the door, it does not provide veterans with the education needed to develop a deep understanding of financial planning. To provide additional tools for veteran home buyers, the Home Act does two key things.
▶ 0:41:41First, empowers the VA to partner with veteran service organizations and nonprofits to offer voluntary financial counseling to veterans using their VA home loan benefit. This is critical. Too often, veterans become home owners and need financial planning. Without it, they may fall behind on payments or even lose their homes. This bill help prevents helps prevent that outcome by making proactive financial guidance readily available. And secondly, the home act creates a national database of adapt of adapted homes that accommodate disabilities.
▶ 0:42:12Right now, if a disabled veteran needs to buy a home, there's no centralized way to find homes that fits their needs. They're forced to look for accessible homes from scratch. With this bill, veterans using the specially adapted housing program or SA could use this database to find homes that meet the needs of their disability. It's a simple common sense solution that reduces the burden and helps veterans find a place where they can live safely and comfortably. We islanders look out for each other. It's who we are.
▶ 0:42:39This bill reflects our shared beliefs that no one should fall through the cracks because of a lack because of lack of information or resources. The people who defended our country should never have to face financial instability or risk losing their home when all of us here can provide them with the knowledge needed to thrive as home owners by supporting this bill.
▶ 0:42:58So, I urge all my colleagues to support the Home Act of I'm a believer in prevention is better than cure, and I think a lot of the bills before this committee um does just that. And I want to speak directly to the TAP program, which I think attempts to do just that, provide our vets with the resources. So, some of the things that I'm still hearing, uh and I'm really glad, Dr.
▶ 0:43:25Clark that you mentioned that you are working on having individualized transition paths for our vets because too often what we're hearing is that the program is a one-sizefits-all um you know program that doesn't necessarily address the particularized needs of of our vets.
▶ 0:43:44Um one of the things uh that I'm also hearing is that there are gaps in post tap followup and continuity of care and so can you just speak to that issue and share your thoughts on how we can work together to make improvements to that? Thank you so much for the question and uh and the support for the TAP program.
▶ 0:44:09uh TAP that was 10 years ago, five years ago, and even three years ago is different than what it is today. We're uh we're appreciative of the FY19 NDAA that changed TAP from a one-sizefits-all to an individualized program. And so that each service member has different needs and different post-transition goals. And that all starts with the initial counseling that will help them pave the way for what their transition looks like. Then ends with the capstone at 90 days prior to separation.
▶ 0:44:37At that point, if the uh transitioning service member may be at heightened risk, we then do a warm handover trans uh transfer to either the appropriate federal agency or the local resource. We also then do have with our partnership with the Department of Labor and VA opportunity to opportunities to then reach out to uh to the veterans as well. We also have military one source that's available 365 days after separation or The gentle lady yields back.
▶ 0:45:07The chair now recognizes Miss Ramirez for five minutes. Thank you, chairman and beloved ranking member uh for holding this hearing. I also want to thank all of our witnesses that are here today. Yes, beloved. You're and you're kind of beloved, too. Uh so what you see here is we really are wanting to get above the politics and really focus on serving our veterans, which is why I started the way I did. Uh but let me come back to to my remarks today.
▶ 0:45:35My priority in addition to make sure that this committee is working together is to center the needs of the 20,000 veterans I represent in Illinois's third congressional district. Those needs include a veteran successful transition into civilian life. The transition from military service to civilian life is distinct and complex. And the transition assistance program, TAP, plays a unique role in facilitating a successful transition from employment assistance to mental health services, housing support, and access to continued education.
▶ 0:46:04Our veterans deserve integrated, streamline, comprehensive approach to TAP that recognizes their sacrifices, that honors their needs and provides them with the necessary tools, resources, and the support that they need to succeed. But we know that TAP needs improvement. And I want to say that I appreciate Congressman Van Orton's bill, the Enhancing the Transition Service Members Experience Act, which attempts to improve TAP through various changes.
▶ 0:46:31The ideas on this bill are worth building on, and I want to discuss the ways these ideas could be improved to fully serve our veterans. One of the proposed changes to the bill would allow active duty service members to engage a TAP program earlier, 540 days instead of 356 days.
▶ 0:46:50While ensuring they have a longer period where they can begin assess assessing the program earlier and accessing resources doesn't fix the fact that these resources are still rooted in a check check the box mentality. You know watch the video check and fill out the paper check and visit the website check and check after check. I do think that it begins to give them more resources earlier.
▶ 0:47:15Another change to tap I would offer is counseling that is trauma-informed, culturally competent, and fully integrated with state and local workforce systems. Counseling must take into account the diversity of our veterans, which means it must be able to serve the unique needs of our veterans, and that includes women, LGBTQ plus service members, and service members of color. I also have a serious concern about how this bill could normalize a two-tier tap system.
▶ 0:47:45And one of the changes in this bill would provide pre-counseling for three days for those who find employment versus 5 days for those without. Counseling should be given equitably to all veterans regardless of their ability to gain employment after separation. So to improve TAP, we need mandatory participation. We need TAP to begin not just earlier, but more often and throughout a service member's career, not just at the end. And we need funding to actually back it up. So, Dr.
▶ 0:48:15Clark, in this administration supportive of supportive of giving service members more, let me reword my question. Dr. Clark, is this administration supportive of giving service members more time for TAP? And number two, Dr. Clark, what additional changes are needed to make that possible at the DoD? Thank you for the question. Uh currently the NDAA FY19 has uh tap available and mandatory at 365 days uh pre-eparation.
▶ 0:48:46For retirees it's 730 days. It's it's two years prior to their retirement. Uh due to the operational readiness and with commanders balancing that delicate balance between operational readiness and supporting the transition uh period uh we feel that the 365 days is the appropriate time where it's then mandatory.
▶ 0:49:05Although we do have tap that's available online 24/7 that doesn't even require a CAT card for any service members but at 365 days is the point where we feel is a delicate balance between the operational readiness needs as well as the supporting the transition service member. So what structural reforms would DoD be considering to ensure that TAP is not only more equitable but also trauma-informed, culturally responsive?
▶ 0:49:31And again, I just want to really emphasize when we're talking about our veterans, we're talking about all of them and I include the LGBTQ plus service members and service members of color. I'm really interested um how do we do that beyond employment rates? Thank you so much. And uh when we look at tapping and individualized that's it's individualized if it's the career field, if it's uh one of the underrepresented populations, it is continuing to be that individual counseling for that specific need, for that specific transition goal.
▶ 0:49:59And so the tap of yesterday and even tap of today today is not the same that it will continue to be. We are committed to ensuring that that TAP remains the best in class and we are continuing to evolve it. Thank you Dr. Clark. With that chairman I yield back. The gentle lady yields back. The chair now recognizes Mr. Amade from the great state of Arizona. Thank you chairman and thank you all for being here today as well. I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak before the subcommittee on the Edith Norse Rogers STEM Scholarship Opportunity Act.
▶ 0:50:28a bill that I'm very proud to co-lead with Congresswoman Badzinski and uh she's been phenomenal to work with. As an Army veteran and a member of both the Armed Services and Veteran Affairs Committee, I know exactly how difficult it can be for soldiers transitioning to civilian life. Now, veterans often share with me personal stories about the many financial obstacles they face in completing degrees in high demand areas such as engineering, computer science, and healthcare. Now, I've heard all of these stories many times before, and these stories demand action.
▶ 0:50:58Now, that's why this bipartisan bill is so important. Right now, the VA's own rules force veterans to exhaust nearly all of their post 911 GI Bill benefits before they can even apply for the STEM Our bill fixes this by letting veterans apply earlier, after they've completed 45 credit hours instead of 60, and without having to drain their GI bill first. It's a simple common sense change that puts veterans first and cuts needless red tape.
▶ 0:51:27Over the last three years, 3,500 veterans have used the scholarship to pursue STEM degrees. But we know the demand is much higher, especially as Arizona continues to lead the way in semiconductor manufacturing and defense technology. With TSMC and Luke Air Force Base right in our own backyard, we need more homegrown talent ready to fill these critical roles. And who better than those who've already served our country? Now, this bill is about strengthening our workforce, boosting our national security, and honoring our promise to veterans.
▶ 0:51:56It's backed by the American Legion, DAV, Student Veterans of America, and Amvets organizations that know our veterans need to succeed. Now, the bottom line is this. Meeting the needs of our veterans should never be a partisan issue. This is about giving our nation's heroes the tools to succeed in the next chapter of their lives, while also strengthening America's economic and technological edge. I urge my colleagues to support this bill to help us deliver real results for those who have sacrificed so much for our country. And with that, I yield back. Mr.
▶ 0:52:26Chairman, the gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes Representative Kennedy from the great state of from New York. Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Chairman, ranking member Papus, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to speak today in support of my bill HR 2720, the Gold Star Family Parody Act.
▶ 0:52:47When our sons and daughters take an oath to defend our nation, their families take that oath with them, enduring long deployments, missed milestones, and the everpresent anxiety of having a loved one in harm's way. And when the unthinkable happens, when a service member makes the ultimate sacrifice, it is those families who bear the lifelong weight of that loss.
▶ 0:53:12As members of this committee, we have a solemn responsibility to ensure that our policies support those families, not fail them. But right now, when it comes to educational benefits, our system does exactly that. Under current law, if a service member dies before formally transferring their post 911 GI benefits, their spouse or children are left with a lesser benefit under chapter 35, survivors independence educational assistance or DEA.
▶ 0:53:43Let me be clear, that disparity is both outdated and unfair. DEA provides survivors and dependents roughly $1,536 per month or about $13,800 a annually for full-time study. But the average annual cost for a 4-year public university is more than $27,000.
▶ 0:54:10This financial gap leaves gold star families who are already grieving the loss of a loved one struggling to make ends meet simply because their service member hadn't completed a transfer form before their death and died in service to this country. It's unjust and certainly not the way we should treat the families of our fallen heroes. The Gold Star Family Family Parody Act that I carry would correct this inequity.
▶ 0:54:40My bill ensures that all surviving dependents, regardless of whether benefits were officially transferred, receive the full post 911 GI Bill education benefits their loved ones have earned by that individual's service and sacrifice to this country. In short, it ensures that Gold Star families are treated with the dignity, gratitude, and support that they deserve and earned.
▶ 0:55:10I'm proud to lead this effort on behalf of the families in Western New York and across our country who have given more than we can ever repay. I'd like to thank Miss Ashlin Hock Lman, the director of government and legislative affairs at the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors for their endorsement of this bill. We can't let red tape stand in the way of what's right. When a service member gives their life for this country, their family shouldn't be left behind because of an administrative hurdle.
▶ 0:55:41This is our chance to honor their sacrifice with action, not just words. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this important piece of legislation and I urge all of our colleagues to support the Gold Star Family Parody Act to deliver the justice, dignity, and support to these families of these fallen heroes. Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields back.
▶ 0:56:03In accordance with committee rule 5 echo, I ask unanimous consent that Representative Vasquez from New Mexico be permitted to participate in today's committee, excuse me, subcommittee hearing. No objection, so ordered. The chair now recognizes Representative Barrett from the great state of Michigan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you for taking up these bills and for uh testimony today. Um wanted to start um Mr. uh Paparin, did I say your name correctly, sir? Very good. Thank you.
▶ 0:56:30Uh I appreciate the uh VA's initial support for my bill, the Patriots Over Politics Act to restore the GI Bill uh transferability for service members who left the military under duress during the time of the COVID vaccine mandate. that was obviously later reversed and then has been uh attempted to be reconciled over time. Uh one of the uh issues that the VA brought up as a concern was the enactment period in the 90-day window to open a period of time for veterans who qualify to apply for this benefit.
▶ 0:57:01Um I I believe in your testimony you pointed out that starting from the point of enactment is is difficult for the department to do. If we allowed for a one-year period for the secretary to open a 90-day window, would that satisfy the concerns that the department has on that piece of it? U I'll be taking that question. Okay. Um what you're asking about is I think essentially how long will it take to implement the changes?
▶ 0:57:31That would have to defer to DoD. As I as we discussed a little bit earlier, this bill creates an opportunity to transfer entitlement and the transfer entitlement portion is actually done on the DoD side. So the system that's used, the portal that you use to apply and then to transfer benefits. That's all DoD system. So it would have to defer to them. Okay. To answer your question about how long it would take. Okay. Um thank you. And Dr.
▶ 0:58:01Clark, that brings up uh my next point, which is um the VA deferred in their testimony to your department for this. Um I don't believe in reading your testimony that you had rendered any um position on the bill. Can you help us understand where the DoD is? This is an important topic to the department and we will take that for the record. Okay. Um how quickly can we determine a a an an answer? I mean, I'd like to obviously get this done. I there were a lot of people affected by this.
▶ 0:58:30understand the importance of this and uh we will take that back for the record and go through our formal uh protocols for the response. Okay. Um do you have uh in the DoD, do you have any records of people who left the military during the time of the mandate during the times prescribed under the bill um who may have begun the process of transferability but their careers were cut short before the timeline had run for that full completion? Do you do you have those records?
▶ 0:58:59Or if a service member left um ended their enlistment, was released under some kind of disciplinary status due to COVID mandate or retired. Um do we have that archived record of the you know in process transfer that was cut short or was that deleted at the time of their departure? Understand the questions. It's outside of my portfolio so I'll take that back for the record. Okay. Um I do appreciate that. Um, do you have any idea how many members of the military this may have affected who were in this circumstance?
▶ 0:59:30I will also take that for the record. Okay. Um, I know that, um, the cost that the, uh, CBO came up with was, as they said, I think uh, the direct quote was in the low singledigit millions over a 10-year period. That's about the lowest price tag I've seen on a bill that's been scored. um if if the DoD can render any opinion on that as well or in consultation with the VA, we'd appreciate knowing that as well. So, but um appreciate it. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, yield back.
▶ 0:59:57The gentleman yields back in accordance with the committee rule 5 echo. I ask unanimous consent that the representative Mr. Mast from the great state of Florida be permitted to participate in today's subcommittee hearing. Without objection, so ordered. The chair now recognizes Mr. Vasquez for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:00:14Uh, thank you distinguished members of the Veterans Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity for allowing me to participate in today's hearing to discuss my bill HR1965, the bipartisan Veterans Education Assistance Adjustment Act. In New Mexico, uh, alone, we have one of the highest rates of answering the call of duty than any other state in the nation, but it's also one of the most financially challenged states in the nation. And our veterans sacrifice dearly in defense of our country.
▶ 1:00:42We have an obligation to take care of them once they transition back into civilian life and pursue higher education. The post 911 GI Bill has been a key resource for veterans in New Mexico and across this nation to access financial assistance as they work to achieve their academic goals. But unfortunately, the value of the GI Bill has diminished over the years due to inflation and the rising cost of living.
▶ 1:01:06Since it was last updated in 2008, the GI Bill has provided an annual stipend of $1,000 for books, supplies, and other educational costs. When considering the rise of inflation, $1,000 in 2008 equates to in 2025. The stipen today's veterans are getting is worth significantly less than their predecessors received over 17 years ago, and that's simply not fair.
▶ 1:01:34We must do more to ensure our veterans have the resources they need to be successful in the civilian world, which is why I'm proud to lead the bipartisan Veterans Education Assistance Adjustment Act. My bill would address this shortfall by increasing the GI Book Stipen from $1,000 to $1,400 per year to give our veterans the full value of the intended benefit.
▶ 1:01:58Books and other school supplies can be a barrier for many veterans when they return to school, and they deserve the opportunity to educate themselves without being financially burdened. New Mexico is home to over 130,000 veterans, and roughly 4,000 of those are currently enrolled in school using GI education benefits. Veterans upheld their end of the bargain when they raised their right hand and swore note to protect our freedom. Now, we must do our part to ensure they have the benefits that they were promised in exchange for their years of selfless service.
▶ 1:02:28This is why I strongly urge this committee to host a hold a markup as soon as possible and favorably pass this bipartisan bill to give our veterans the opportunity to reach their academic potential. I especially want to thank Chairman Van Nordon for the opportunity to be here today and speak on this bill and for his support as a co-sponsor of this bill as well. I yield back balance of my time. Thank you, Mr. Van. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes my great friend uh Brian Mast from the state of Florida. Thank you, Chairman Venorton and Ranking Member Pus.
▶ 1:02:58I appreciate you letting me wave on to the committee today, join you all. Uh an amazing committee uh represents the best that our our country has ever put forward. Our brothers and sisters in arms. Couldn't appreciate every single one of you more. Love you all uh to the depths of my heart. That is for sure. Uh I want to speak to you all about uh squatters. Squatters in the homes of our service members.
▶ 1:03:19Uh this is something that uh despite being on the Veterans Affairs Committee uh came through this committee uh as uh the Service Member Civil Relief Act even though it affects uh those that are in service still. And uh so anybody who who has a friend or a family member that is serving in uniform or has served, you know, the challenges associated with going away, with being on deployment, being on a float, moving across the country, uh maybe having to have a home that you've
▶ 1:03:49lived in that you haven't had the opportunity to sell yet before you have to be uh uh uh change your your duty station somewhere else across the country. just a number of different difficulties that are associated uh with that military lifestyle and and having to transition across the globe.
▶ 1:04:05Uh and I couldn't really imagine something that would be more infuriating than coming back from a deployment or a float or a training exercise or some long extended period away and finding squatters uh in my home.
▶ 1:04:21And uh whether that be a home that was my primary residence or if I had an investment or anything else like that, it would be uh an extremely frustrating to say the least situation uh and costly situation because a number of states uh actually have laws that do more to protect the squatters than protect the service member homeowners from the squatters, which is an entirely uh sour part of this problem.
▶ 1:04:45Uh, and so what I want to ask number one is, uh, can any of y'all speak to, uh, what you've seen about, uh, service members, uh, returning to squatters in their home? Do any of you have an experience in this? I appreciate the question. Uh, I have not. Um, and for the, um, Civil Relief Act, this is one that we have deferred to DoD since we're talking active duty. Um, so VA doesn't have any e equity, but I'm not familiar with any.
▶ 1:05:17Understand the critical importance of this issue. Uh, the department takes that back for the record. You'll take it for the record as Zoe said. Thank you. And sir, I have no experience. Appreciate that. U, I did introduce a piece of legislation related to this. Uh, it's what we call the Service Member Residents Protection Act. uh and it is specifically to go to the the parameters of what I outlined. Uh and while these squatters laws, they they do vary from state to state.
▶ 1:05:44They they do generally allow trespassers to claim ownership of a property. Uh if it's simply open, unoccupied, uh if their stay is continuous on the property. These are things that they'll try to demonstrate to the state even though they have uh no contract, no legal binding to these properties. Uh and then removing them from the properties. Again, it takes a lengthy legal intervention.
▶ 1:06:05Uh we have very specific cases that we've looked at where uh service members have spent upwards of $50,000 which is a tremendous amount of money uh for any of us on uh on a military salary as anybody can recognize to try and get these people out in legal fees. And uh so I I would ask you all as individuals that certainly have a background in this world, do you see squatters moving into the homes of our service members as an issue affecting national security?
▶ 1:06:38Honestly, sir, I'm not sure I I can answer that question. You don't see that as affecting the readiness of a service member if they're dealing with legal headaches as it relates to somebody unlawfully being in their home or taking over their residence, leaving the toilet seat down, utilizing their silverware, their plates, their dishes, sitting on their couch, putting their feet up, watching a television, all the while they can't get them out of their home. Respectfully, sir, I I I don't have a position and I I don't represent my personal opinion. Madam clerk, Dr.
▶ 1:07:09Clark, agree with my VA colleagues that understand the seriousness of this and I don't have an opinion on this. No opinion about whether that affects the readiness of service members. We in line with my VA colleague here too that understand the the importance of this topic. No opinion about whether it affects the readiness of service members. We'll have to take that for the record. Really? The department remains committed to being able to provide information to the subcommittee.
▶ 1:07:39Okay. Just looking for opinion, right? Department of Defense. Representing my my personal opinion here. I'm representing the department. Certainly the opinion of uh the Department of Defense. All right. Well, that's how you want to answer it. Don't have any other choice but to accept that. Uh it is an an issue that affects a number of our service members. I've had the opportunity to to speak to some of them that have been specifically affected by this. Again, pointing out the the dollar amounts that it's costing them.
▶ 1:08:05Uh and I would just thank the rank the uh ranking member and chairman for the opportunity to speak about this uh as an issue that I believe affects readiness because of the personal impact it has on individuals and uh you've given me ample time. I appreciate that and uh thank you for the great work you all do on this incredible committee. Well, you're welcome, sir. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Uh Dr. Clark, I want to thank you for being here.
▶ 1:08:30Um, I don't know what happened, but the DoD has been much more responsive to this committee, and I'm telling you right now, I appreciate it deeply. Uh, we've had issues in the past and couldn't seem to line up, but um, you being here, uh, again, is is really it's commendable, and I appreciate that. It it shows a real commitment to making sure that we deal with the lifespan of the service member.
▶ 1:08:56I also want to thank Secretary Collins and Secretary Hexith for signing to to address this TAP thing. I mean that's that's brand new and we've been trying to get something going for a long time and this is really important to Chris and me and it was uh Mike u my friend the previous ranking member. So we are moving forward and I appreciate that greatly. How long have you been at the DoD in a civilian capacity? Uh, this August it will be 16 years. Okay, awesome. Um, Mr.
▶ 1:09:25Pamperin, how long have you been at the VA? I've been at the VA, excuse me, since October of 2001. So, 23 and a half. Okay. Or excuse me. Yeah. 23 and a half in this. Right. For 23 and a half years. Okay.
▶ 1:09:41So, so I'm a graduate of an online university and I I believe that we need to expand the the benefits for accredited online education and that I view that we are discriminating against students who are receiving monthly housing allowances to take summer classes online to complete their degree. And so what do you suggest for amendments to HR 3753? I will it's it's no. You're here Mr. Pamprin.
▶ 1:10:10So it it's 2025. So you will answer this question, sir. And if you're unfamiliar with the subject matter, that's not okay. Can you answer this question, Mr. Pamper? I I cannot. I'm not an expert. Uh VA's given information to the subcommittee that there are veterans that have been on VR& for over 20 years. Can you tell me your thoughts on the VR& 8-year limit?
▶ 1:10:40Uh we we support the the proposed legislation. We do believe it will put Okay. How can we work with you for oversight because clearly that does not exist at this point. We remain committed to working with the committee to do what's best for the program. Well, I'm committed to grow my hair and it's not working. So, there's a difference between a commitment and action. Absolutely. And and I'm not confusing motion with progress and I think you are. Um, do you think the book stipen should be increased?
▶ 1:11:11Uh, we do believe the book stipen should be. Okay. Um, when you're talking about 3384 in your written and verbal testimony, you say additionally the bill would result in costly and timeconuming system changes for both lenders and the what does that even mean?
▶ 1:11:43I if okay, what does that mean? So costly system changes, you guys are faxing stuff back and forth still. And then if it's it's time consuming, what do you guys do all day? Like if you don't have time to do this, what are you doing? This is I mean, that's just not okay. That's It's time consuming. It's your job, sir. Okay.
▶ 1:12:12So, I I appreciate the VA responded to a letter that Chairman Boss and I sent out at the end of last year regarding the VR&E program. Uh, unfortunately, this letter is very because the information regarding weight times and proper oversight of VR, which you are directly responsible for, not him. And after my staff has done more you've now told us that there are individuals on the VR& program for over 30 years.
▶ 1:12:39I want everyone sitting back there with one of those hats on that I've got in my office to understand there's people that have been on the VR& program for over 30 years. Three And you've been in that seat since how long? For the last three years. Yeah. When's the last time you did uh an annual report on this because you're griping about having to do it for this other thing. When's the last time you did that? When's the last time you did an IG investigation? Is this person alive? Do we know these things? This is what we're talking about.
▶ 1:13:06The waste, fraud, and abuse of that needs to be cleaned up in the VA. So, again, you got a dude on VRNA since 1994. And can you explain to me directly why this is still happening? Yes, I appreciate the question. This gentleman in question has been on in the program, however, has been going in multiple points of interrupt, meaning they're no longer active. They're no longer receiving benefits or being paid. Hey, we did we did our homework, sir.
▶ 1:13:38So, I listen, we're going to have a legislative hearing July, and I'm officially putting you on notice. You will have answers for this. We're going to find out if these people are alive because if someone's been on this program for 30 years that that in the intelligence business that's what we would call a clue that there's probably malfeasants involved here. Um and with that my time is expired. I'm sorry for going over gentlemen.
▶ 1:14:07I just need to clear that up. So this panel is We'll take a short break as we switch
▶ 1:21:09This committee will come to order. On our second panel, we'll hear from the following witnesses. Dr. Oh, excuse me, Mr. Andrew Petri, senior policy analyst, Veterans Education Employment Division at the American Legion. Mr. Bla1 Smith, director of the University of Arizona's Veterans Education and Transition Services Center. Mr. Matthew Schwarzman, director of legislation and military policy at Reserve Organization of America.
▶ 1:21:31And Miss Ashlin Hock Lman, director, government of legislative affairs and tragedy assistance program for survivors. I'd like to welcome you and ask you to stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the All right, you may be seated. Let the record reflect that all witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Mr. Petri, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony.
▶ 1:22:03Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papus, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. On behalf of National Commander Jim Lorsier and more than 1.5 million dues paying members of the American Legion, uh we thank you for inviting the American Legion to testify today. I sit before you as an experienced veteran advocate who has proudly used benefits and programs the VA offers to those who have defended freedom.
▶ 1:22:33As a first generation college student, I've earned or I've attended various institutions of higher learning using my education benefits from the VA, DoD, and Department of Education, affording me the opportunity to obtain a master's degree and positively impact the veteran community.
▶ 1:22:53Aside from education, excuse me, I've used the VA home loan program twice, including the use of the VA interest rate reduction refinance loan program. I am also proud to have worked with various government officials and other organizations to modify and improve the transition assistance program for the better part of the last It's through this lens that I can see what our members see to feel the discouragement
▶ 1:23:23and irritation that has manifested towards navigating the system applying for employment and educational benefits and using the benefits as intended. With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to take this opportunity to highlight a few points while keeping our members and our nation's veterans in mind.
▶ 1:23:43The American Legion has advocated for the improvement of education benefits for more than eight decades following the servicemen's readjustment act of 1944 which the American Legion created. Most of the bills addressed in today's hearing would affect education of service members, veterans, and their families.
▶ 1:24:03Two of these bills, expanding access for online veteran students act and the Veteran Education Assistance Adjustment Act, seek to make overdue changes to the GI Bill, both supported by the American Legion. Mr. Ciscomani's draft bill would update and increase the monthly housing allowance for those pursuing education online to that of the national average. Currently, students obtaining online education only receive half of the national average for their monthly housing allowance.
▶ 1:24:32However, if the geographic area in which a veteran student resides doesn't offer the program needed or the veteran or spouse have a family uh and it's not feasible to attend school in person while working or raising their children, why would we discourage or punish them? With that said, protections such as the 9010 rule must remain in place to prevent for-profit and private institutions from taking advantage of veterans and their hard-earned benefits.
▶ 1:25:02Meanwhile, HR1965 would increase the yearly book stipen for students utilizing the GI Bill from 1,00 to $1,400. A benefit that has not changed with One of the largest issues the American Legion has brought to the forefront to tackle for our members, current and future, fall under financial stability and housing addressed first.
▶ 1:25:25Homelessness has been an issue addressed by this subcommittee numerous times and ending veteran homelessness is a major priority for the American Legion, which is why we support the Every Veteran Housed Act. Equally as important is access to housing. During my four-year enlistment, I moved two times under military orders across the globe. I shared this experience with you in the context of HR 2791 increasing the maximum housing loan entitlement act.
▶ 1:25:56The veteran the every veteran housed act aims to expand eligibility for homeless benefits for veterans including those veterans with less than honorable discharges while excluding those with dishonorable discharges and general court marshal sentences. These newly encompassed veterans are at a higher risk for financial and housing issues.
▶ 1:26:17HR 2791 would increase the maximum entitlement to 1.5 times that of the Freddy Mack maximum rate while looking to purchase a second home in the case that a service member or veteran's first home doesn't sell prior to the move. I conclude by thanking Chairman Van Orton, ranking member Papus, and this subcommittee for your incredible leadership and for always keeping veterans at the forefront of your mission.
▶ 1:26:42The American Legion, uh, it's my privilege to represent the American Legion before this subcommittee, and I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you, Mr. Petri. Uh, let the record reflect that your written testimony will be entered into the Uh, Mr. Mr. Smith, you're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papas, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.
▶ 1:27:13As someone who works directly with student veterans, transitioning service members, and military connected families every day, I see both the power of well ststructured benefits and the real consequences when those systems fall short. I'm here not only as an administrator, but as a veteran who has walked this path myself and who now works to make that journey more navigable for others. I enlisted in the United States Navy in 2012 as a Tomahawk weapons control operator.
▶ 1:27:41After two years of technical school, I deployed aboard the USS Porter DDG78 to the sixfleet area of operations. I managed the Tomahawk weapons system and eventually led the oversight, maintenance, and casualty control of all combat weapons systems on board DDG78. We operated at a high tempo supporting missions and including which included ballistic missile defense, antipiracy, counterterrorism, strategic deterrence, and rapid response operations.
▶ 1:28:09In 2018, I transitioned out of the Navy and returned to my home of Tucson, Arizona with my wife, Alexia, and our two young children, Griffin and Ember. We came back to the clo uh to be close to family while Alexia and I pursued higher I believed I had prepared well for the transition. I attended the DoD transition assistance program, researched my benefits, uh and enrolled in school the same fall I separated.
▶ 1:28:35But I quickly realized that I had underestimated the complexity of post-military life. Balancing school, family, benefits, navigation, addressing service connected disabilities, and finding a new identity outside the uniform was far more difficult than expected, especially during the isolation and disruption of COVID. The Veterans Education and Transition Services Program at the University of Arizona became a lifeline for me.
▶ 1:29:03uh with their help I found my footing and I soon joined the team as a VA work study myself uh determined to help others find the same support that I had received uh that commitment to peer support community and shared resilience is the heart of what we do thanks to that foundation I earned a bachelor's degree from the uh Eller College of Management I then went on to complete a master's degree from the school of natural resources and the environment where I published work on national environmental policy act um and advocated
▶ 1:29:34for datadriven approaches to policy Uh shortly after graduation, an opportunity arose to lead the very program that supported my trans transition and I applied and was honored to be selected as the director of the Vet Center and it remains the most fulfilling work of my career. Today, I'm proud to share that the University of Arizona was ranked number four best colleges for veterans in the nation by Military Times.
▶ 1:29:56We support more than 6,000 military affiliated students, which is about 15% of our total student um through a one-stop shop model that serves veterans, active duty, national guard, reserveists, and their Our vet center working closely with military connected benefits and certification center provides holistic support to student veterans and their families.
▶ 1:30:18Uh just a few examples include benefits navigation, disability accommodations, mental health resources, career readiness, peer mentorship, social connection, and community events. We're proud of the work we do, but recognize that there is still much more we can do. I'm grateful to represent this community today and to discuss legislation that directly impacts their futures. I welcome your questions and will do my best to provide clear, thoughtful insight based on both personal experience and professional service.
▶ 1:30:45Thank you for the time and this Uh the gentleman yields back. Uh sorry, I was doing a little musical chairs over Okay, we good. All right. Uh, Mr. Smith, your uh, written statement will be entered into the record. Mr. Schwarzman, you're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony. Thank you very much, Mr.
▶ 1:31:08Chairman, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papus, and distinguished members of the Economic Opportunity Subcommittee. On behalf of the Reserve Organization of America, the only national military organization that solely and exclusively supports the Reserve and National Guard, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on pending legislation.
▶ 1:31:29While ROA addresses many of these bills under consideration in a separate statement for the record submitted by ROA policy fellows Jake Fails and Hannah Miller, my testimony focuses on what ROA views as the most consequential proposal HR 3387, the Enhancing the Transitioning Service Members Experience Act or ETS Act for short. Mr.
▶ 1:31:53Chairman ROA commends your focus on strengthening the transition assistance program for all service members and their families, including those in the reserve components. The importance of TAP cannot be overstated. Studies consistently show that service members and veterans who fully engage with TAP report higher satisfaction across key areas of civilian life. When TAP works, it works.
▶ 1:32:19And if we get it right, we can reduce long-term reliance on other costly VA programs. But when it falls short, and there are times when it does fall short, the consequences can be serious and longlasting. This is especially true for our nation's citizen warriors who navigate militaryto civilian transitions repeatedly throughout their careers.
▶ 1:32:42Whether coming off active duty orders, returning to civilian employment, navigating benefits across duty statuses, or spending decades in the gray area awaiting retirement benefits. Each stage presents its own unique set of challenges. Despite this, TAP remains largely built around a single end of career transition designed primarily with the active duty force in mind. But you don't have to take my word for it.
▶ 1:33:09Or recently heard from a Marine Corps reserveist reflecting on their TAP experience after returning from a deployment to Afghanistan. They shared, and I quote, "The instructors had zero understanding of the reserve components. When I asked if there was any material focused on the RC, I got a blank stare. Anecdotes like this highlight why the ETSs act is so vital.
▶ 1:33:32It modernizes the transition assistance program to reflect the realities of today's all volunteer force and prepares it to meet the evolving needs of tomorrow's war fighters. Most importantly, it acknowledges that transition is not a onesizefits-all experience.
▶ 1:33:49ROA thanks Chairman Van Nordon for sponsoring this legislation and strongly supports key provisions that establish a tailored tap track for reserve component members, provide flexibility for reserveist to wave requirements when appropriate, authorize repeat participation in TAP pre-eparation counseling, fully integrate spouses into the transition process, align tap more closely with VA solid start program, and create a centralized online hub for transition related resources. resources.
▶ 1:34:20We also support the intent behind additional provisions such as enhanced one-on-one financial counseling and stronger departmental oversight of thirdparty tap contractors. To further strengthen these and other provisions, ROA has submitted a series of constructive recommendations and looks forward to working collaboratively with the subcommittee to advance this legislation.
▶ 1:34:43ROA also supports additional legislation on today's docket related to the Post 911 GI Bill, including the Goldstar Family Education Parody Act and Veteran Education Assistance Adjustment Act. That said, I want to be absolutely clear. ROA's highest education priority remains the Garden Reserve GI Bill Parody Act.
▶ 1:35:04Too many reservists serve under duty statuses that fail to qualify for full GI Bill benefits, even when those duties are essential to our national security. That must change, and it must change quickly. To this end, I respectfully ask the subcommittee to review the addendum submitted with my written testimony, an earlier statement to the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee by ROA policy fellows Jake Fails and Peter Donlin, which outlines ROA's full case of support for GI Bill parody.
▶ 1:35:34Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for inviting ROA to testify today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Gentleman yields back. The written statement of Mr. Schwarzman will be entered into the record. Uh, Miss Hawk Loman, you're now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony. Chairman Venon, Ranking Member Papus, and distinguished committee members.
▶ 1:35:56The Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors is grateful for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the more than 120,000 surviving families TAPS is honored to serve. TAP strongly supports HR 2720, the Goldstar Family Educational Parody Act, which would sunset chapter 35 education benefits and move all qualified recipients to the Fry Scholarship. We thank Representative Tim Kennedy for introducing this life-changing legislation earlier this year.
▶ 1:36:23The Fry Scholarship is one of the most important benefits we provide our surviving families because it allows surviving spouses a chance to retrain after the loss of their significant other and surviving children the opportunity to pursue their dreams with little to no debt. As the surviving daughter of Army Sergeant Firstclass Jeffrey Hock, who died in the line of duty on April 12th, 2002, I personally benefited from the Fry Scholarship. It made it possible for me to attend American University because it covered most of my tuition in housing.
▶ 1:36:52But I only qualified because my dad died on active duty post 911. Other kids who I grew up with in the taps good grief camp were not as fortunate. Kids like Garrett Schmidt whose father died in an aviation accident in 1992, but because his dad died pre- 911, he was only eligible for Chapter 35 education benefits. Our losses are very similar, but our benefits are completely different solely because of the date our fathers died.
▶ 1:37:19Chapter 35 is an archaic benefit from the 1950s that has barely been increased and has no tuition assistance. The flat rate of just over $1,500 per month does not go far in today's educational system. Sunsetting Chapter 35 and expanding eligibility for the Fry scholarship would acknowledge that surviving spouses and children whose loved ones died as a result of military service all deserve equitable access to education benefits. Additionally, sunsetting chapter 35 would help streamline processes at the VA.
▶ 1:37:50Most Chapter 35 claims are processed using Cobalt, which is a barely used IT system anymore. Instead of consistently bandating a broken system, let's fix the root of the problem. Moving all beneficiaries to the VA to the Fry Scholarship would streamline it and be more efficient for VA. TAPS will support the Gold Star and Surviving Spouse Career Services Act if it is amended to include all surviving spouses who receive dependency and indemnity compensation.
▶ 1:38:18Our non-active duty surviving spouses would benefit just as much from access to disabled veterans outreach program at the Department of Labor. TAP supports the Veterans Educational Assistance Adjustment Act, which would increase the annual book statement under the post 911 GI Bill as long as this increase also includes surprise scholarship. Since the enactment of the post 911 GI Bill in 2008, it has never been increased and tying it to COLA will help ensure that this significant benefit keeps pace with inflation.
▶ 1:38:48Lastly, we would be remiss if we did not highlight our strong opposition to the expanding access for online veteran students act. By increasing the monthly housing allowance for online students, you would be penalizing students in rural and lowcost of living communities. I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma. Not a single school in the state of Oklahoma has an MHA at or above the national average. The same goes for states like Iowa and Montana and 73% of schools in Wisconsin.
▶ 1:39:16Increasing the online MHA to the national average would penalize every single student veteran in those states. It would also discourage them from attending programs that have amazing student veteran programs and would open the door for bad actors who are looking to prey on students with GI Bill benefits. This is not a new issue. We have seen this predatory behavior in the past and this would incentivize those schools to do so again.
▶ 1:39:40There are fantastic programs that are fully online such as the University of Southern California's online program in military social work, but students can attend while living in rural Alabama and not incur the high cost of living and commuter costs associated with inerson attendance. While the intent of this legislation to provide greater support for those enrolled in online education is commendable, we urge the committee to consider the broader consequences of this proposal.
▶ 1:40:06On behalf of our surviving families, Taps appreciates the opportunity to testify today and I look forward to your questions. The general lady yields back. Miss Hancock Lman's written testimony will be entered into the record. Uh I now recognize Mr. Amade for five minutes for his questions. Thank you, chairman, and thank you everybody for being here today as well. And uh Mr. Smith, I appreciate your bolo tie. I think everybody knows you're from Arizona with that.
▶ 1:40:33I don't think I could wear that here in Congress, but I don't think it would turn out too well, though. Mr. Smith, in your testimony, you mentioned your support for the Expanding Access for Online Veterans Students Act, stating that the current VA policy creates an inequity of penalizing students who take classes online. Could you elaborate on this and talk about your own experience pursuing online education? Yes, sir. Thank you. Um, you could pull off a bow tie first of all. Um, yeah.
▶ 1:41:04So, when I was in uh my bachelor's program, I ended up going online for the second half of my business administration degree. And the first semester that I was on that online program, we as a family, my wife and two children, suffered some pretty uh major um cuts to to what our our finances could or what we could cover, right? Because we were only getting 50% of what the GI Bill offers. Uh and because of that, it was it was a tight it was a tight semester.
▶ 1:41:34um right after that and maybe the only time we'll say thankfully when we talk about COVID is uh there was a period of um there they repealed that uh issue for the COVID uh problem and when that happened we were able to sustain the the full family under the under the full benefit.
▶ 1:41:52Um the reality of the situation is is that no matter where you're going to school or or what your what your modality is um that you still have expenses and often these families depend on that that as a paycheck to support a an entire family. Thank you. And Mr. Mr.
▶ 1:42:11Smith, in your testimony, you mentioned some key data points that could help veterans going through the VR&E program find meaningful employment, including tracking job retention, veteran satisfaction scores, cost per outcome, and long-term wage growth, and more. Could you elaborate on how you gathered all of these u facts and how they could improve the program? Uh yes, sir. So, I I was just kind of coming up with a couple of possible ideas that might support u better uh understanding of the VR& program.
▶ 1:42:39uh and I I felt that they kind of captured one of the most important aspects of this, which is how how great is the employment they're getting after their after their uh degrees are done. Are they getting jobs in the career fields that they want to be in? Are uh are they seeing the results that they needed to see from the program? And is VR successfully facilitating those uh handoffs into those careers that they wanted to be in in the first place? And in your testimony, you mentioned the need for an increase in book stipen.
▶ 1:43:08How much do you think the book stipen should be increased to account for inflationary costs? Um I'm I'm not sure exa I'm not uh too great with numbers as I should as my Eller degree should say it is. But um the recommendation of $1,400. It sounds like it keeps up with the 2025 inflation rate and would probably be very helpful uh with regards to supporting all of the expenses of books and and things that are not covered by tuition and fees. That would cover at the University of Arizona a lot of the veterans who are going there.
▶ 1:43:39Absolutely, sir. Yeah, that would that would cover everything they needed. Okay, very good. You're doing great work at the University of Arizona. You know, that's my graduate school alma mater and also where I joined the military in the ROC program. So, I have a lot of uh ties to it. But with that, chairman, I yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes Miss Ramirez for five minutes. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:44:01So, let me start by saying that while the National Guard is in the news this week, I think it's fitting we talk about the unique challenges faced by the National Guard members when it comes to receiving their benefits in the same way that active duty members do. That challenge seems to me is an abuse and it's a responsibility to rectify it. But before I go into that a little more in detail, I do want to point out another thing that I think is abuse.
▶ 1:44:27The National Guard's recent deployment in LA by Trump's unilateral decision is also an abuse and overreach of power. One that I frankly believe is Congress's responsibility, our responsibility to rectify. The National Guard's mission is to support both state and federal operations, including disaster response and military readiness.
▶ 1:44:50When they're deployed consistent with that mission, which again I would point out, they're not in LA, they should be properly credited for their time in service and earn benefits at the same rate as their active duty counterparts do. Yet, National Guardsmen, active duty, order cap means that they're unable to be credited and get the benefits they rightfully earned. So, this question is for you, uh, Mr. Schwarzman. Did I get it right? Oh, good. Good.
▶ 1:45:19Can you please share the significance of capping active duty orders at 179 days? Well, thank you very much for the question. Uh, in the context of the transition assistance program, for example, current law requires that service members serve at least 180 consecutive days on active duty to qualify for the benefit.
▶ 1:45:41uh it's the case, you know, not just for benefits eligibility on the VA side, but also within DoD as well, uh that uh one looks at the amount of time spent on active duty orders. For example, if a reservist is on orders uh for 180 days or more, they qualify for BAH. And so what we see uh quite often, frankly, is DoD will cut orders uh with the goal of achieving cost savings.
▶ 1:46:07Uh and so our recommendation for example uh is to amend the eligibility criteria for participation in TAP uh from its current structure to 180 cumulative days of active service uh which would also include time spent on drill weekends and manual or mandatory training which is also another restriction uh under title 10 section 1142. Got it. Thank you. I appreciate that response. I want to shift gears a bit. So, I have just a little bit less than half the time left here.
▶ 1:46:37Um, and I want to talk about another aspect of veteran benefits that's really important for me and that's making sure that veterans have the ability to make an informed decision about their education and have as many options available as possible without sacrificing quality or accessibility. And I want to be clear that one of the main priorities for me as a member of this committee has been to ensure that students student veterans are not defrauded by institutions of higher education. And that continues to be my priority. It's why I have a bill on that.
▶ 1:47:07Institutions like the University of Arizona have demonstrated that their online programs can be highquality and community centered when implemented thoughtfully and executed carefully. So Mr. Smith, this question is for you. The University of Arizona offers many degree programs online. How does it ensure quality and build community for online Thank you.
▶ 1:47:31I think one of the major ways in which the University of Arizona online supports making sure that we're delivering quality is having active research. We're an R1 school, so everything we're doing is research research oriented in the first place. We're also surveying. We're making sure that we're taking the time to have these community spaces where they can feel like they're supported despite maybe not being in person.
▶ 1:47:53Um, and having smaller, more intimate course sizes as well, which supports um, tailoring programs and and paying attention to the individual as opposed to Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. No, thank you, Mr. Smith. A quick follow-up question to that. What percentage of the online students are veterans pursuing degrees full-time? I'm going to take a stab at it. I think it's just about 20% online. So we are at I think 7,000 online students that are military affiliated.
▶ 1:48:22Can you verify after if you can send me the yeah the exact estimate that would be great. So look many student veterans are enrolling in online programs and I know that some veterans find that online education is the option that works best for them. just easier. It's it's more flexible and allows them to also work as needed because that may be the most accessible way to pursue their education or most aligned to veteran preference.
▶ 1:48:46I just want to make sure that I say that we also have to continue to provide careful oversight of online programs and the educational institutions that provide them. I think it's really important to note as my three seconds are left that access should not come at the expense of quality and I want to continue to follow up on that. With that, chairman, I yield back. The gentle lady yields back. The chair now recognizes Dr. Dexter for five minutes.
▶ 1:49:09Thank you so much, Chair Van Orordin, uh, for holding this hearing and for the opportunity to speak for my bill, the discussion draft of the Every Veteran Housed Act. I appreciate and share your commitment to tackling veteran homelessness and hope to work together on this issue. In Oregon and across the country, preventing and ending veteran homelessness is a top priority. Our communities believe that honoring service means ensuring every veteran has a safe place to call home.
▶ 1:49:38That is why I'm proud to have introduced every veteran housed um at the act, which removes barriers and streamlines eligibility standards across VA homelessness programs, making it easier for veterans experiencing homelessness to access the full range of support they've earned. It also expands access to include all who served, whether active duty or in the National Guard or the Reserve, ensuring no veteran is left behind when it comes to critical VA housing resources.
▶ 1:50:06So, I'm very grateful to our witnesses um for their support for this legislation. And so, I'm just going to have a couple questions. Um Miss Hock Loman, can you speak to the existing gaps in the veteran homelessness system and why it's so critical that this bill reaches those who have historically been left behind? At TAPS, the number one reason we are seeing new survivors coming to us, it alternates between one and two, is suicide.
▶ 1:50:34The largest number of veterans we are seeing um pass away or either illness loss or suicide. We know that the the lack of support for mental health programs has led to some of this. But also ensuring that our veterans have, you know, a roof over their head, that they are supported, that they have a home to go home to, that we think these would help reduce uh suicide loss in the the veteran space, but also ensuring that all of the all veterans have access to those programs because not all veterans who die by suicide
▶ 1:51:04died honorably living at home. With all of these things, we see a large correlation between mental health and suicide and homelessness. Yeah, thank you so much. And I just um so folks are aware, there's over a 100% increase in risk for suicide for a veteran who is unhoused versus housed. So, it's incredibly important. Um Mr. Petri, do you believe this bill is necessary to ensure that every veteran is housed? Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
▶ 1:51:32Uh the American Legion does believe that this bill will ensure that as many veterans as possible can be housed and find transitional housing to uh transition into a regular housing situation afterwards. Great. Thank you. And finally, Mr. Schwarzman, can you speak to the importance of the parody this bill provides for the veterans of the National Guards um and reserve? National Guard and Reserve. Absolutely. With pleasure.
▶ 1:52:01Uh well, first of all, thank you for your sponsorship of this legislation, your leadership. We appreciate it very much and we do strongly support the bill. Um Reserve and National Guard members, as I allude to in my testimony, are often left behind uh when it comes uh to VA benefits. I'll use the VA home loan program, for example, given the statistic you used, uh where in order to uh receive the VA home loan program, you have to have a DD form 214. Uh many members of the Reserve and National Guard, uh actually may not end up receiving that form.
▶ 1:52:30Now, there are initiatives underway such as the DD form 214-1 which may help reserve members overcome uh that eligibility challenge. Um, but I would note that what your legislation does is it broadens that definition of the word veteran to be more inclusive uh of uh all service members, particularly those in the Reserve and National Guard. Great. Thank you so much. I very much appreciate the panel um your advocacy for our veterans and your support.
▶ 1:52:57look forward to working with everyone um to get this bill passed and ensure that no veteran is left behind when it comes to critical VA resources for housing. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. The gentle lady yields back in accordance with uh committee rule 5 echo ask unanimous consent that representative Dexter from the great state of Oregon be permitted to participate in today's subcommittee hearing without objection. So ordered. Thank you ma'am. I now recognize myself for five minutes.
▶ 1:53:27Mr. Petri, can you just briefly tell us, you know, what would the difference if we increase You know, what would that difference make for our veterans with regard to the uh full-time online? So, full-time online students get half of the national average. Yes, sir. Okay. What would the difference be?
▶ 1:53:51So if we would look at it from $1,118 compared to Yes, chairman and thank you for your question. So, uh, the financial change, uh, has a wide wide array of, uh, things that can happen for veterans, including financial stability, better housing options for themselves and their families, uh, and the ability to sustain while going to school if the, uh, book stipen
▶ 1:54:21doesn't cover enough supplies for them while in while in school. So, covers a wide array of options and we think it's a very positive change. Okay. Uh before I got elected to Congress, Sarah Jane and I, that's my wife, uh we were living on my enlisted retirement. And I'll tell you right now, another thousand bucks a month if I was going to school on an enlisted man's, you know, E8 retirement would be gamechanging. And I know a lot of people that sit up here and they're out there, they make a lot of money.
▶ 1:54:51And to them, a thousand bucks is lunch, you know, not where we come from, right? Yes, sir. That were you a Marine? Yes, sir. Okay. So you get a marine and navy guy. Got no army guy. Schwarzman. What about you? Nothing. No formal mil. Okay, let's work on that. You're still young, sir. Miss Ashton, excuse me, Miss Hancock Lman. Um last year your organization received $500,000 in unrestricted funds from Tik Tok.
▶ 1:55:21Uh $500,000 in free advertising. Were you aware that Bite Dance is owned by the Chinese Communist Party when you received that money? Yes, we are aware that Tik Tok is owned by Bite Dance. Okay. So, you're aware that your organization took $500,000 in unrestricted funds and $500,000 in free advertising from the Chinese Communist Party. We're aware that we took $500,000 from Tik Tok.
▶ 1:55:46Were you aware on April 24th 2024 HR7521 was passed the protecting Americans from foreign advert or adversary controlled applications act. You aware that that passed? Yes. Okay. And then so in November November 11th 2024 you took essentially a million dollars from an organization that Congress said uh should not have any business dealing with anybody. Is that correct? We took the money and that money is unrestricted.
▶ 1:56:16There were no strings attached to it and they do not have access to any of our information. But that money has gone to help our programs. Ma'am, the reason that we passed that is because that's what you just said is patently false. That is not accurate. The 120,000 folks that you've helped over the years, all of their personal data has been directly compromised to the Chinese Communist So, what did you use the 500,000 unrestricted dollars that you got from the Chinese Communist Party? Where did you apply those funds?
▶ 1:56:48Sorry, pulling up my notes here. Um, I was not involved in the conversations for doing so, but it has gone towards our good grief camp and for uh programs to support our surviving children primarily. Okay. Are you aware that there's a ton of other organizations that took money from the Chinese Communist Party through Tik Tok and all of them but you gave it back? That's not Excuse me. That is not correct. Which one didn't? Right.
▶ 1:57:15So, our Wounded Warrior Project and the VFW have given their money back. Okay. Why Why have you guys not That is a decision above my pay grade. Okay. So, I just got to tell you, um I understand the work that you're doing. I appreciate it.
▶ 1:57:30But sometimes we have to take the longer look at these things and understand that the Chinese Communist Party is not our friends and that many of us who have served in active duty or on active duty status are putting our lives at risk trying to counter what the Chinese Communist Party is doing.
▶ 1:57:57And so I don't know if the good that you're doing and your organization is doing good things. I don't know if that outweighs the fact that you're being funded by our greatest geopolitical And I would encourage you very very strongly to speak to your leadership and clear your books of that money. Um, with that, my time is expired.
▶ 1:58:28I'd like to yield to Representative Ramirez for any uh closing statements she may Uh, okay. Hey, I want to thank both panels for coming here. Uh, there's more work to do. We will be holding the Veterans Affairs Administration accountable. We're going to be holding them accountable regardless of what administration is in place. That's because we're not beholden to the VA. We're beholden to the veteran.
▶ 1:58:57And there are people at the VA that have been there for a long time that uh seem to have forgotten that the VA is not about their job and it's not a jobs program. The the Veterans Affairs Administration is going to make jobs program for veterans, not for bureaucrats. Uh and I know that Mr.
▶ 1:59:16Ramirez and I there's in we in a very bipartisan way are hyperfocused on making sure that the people that have given us our freedom uh get every single benefit that they have earned. Uh and with that this committee stands adjourned.