▶ 0:08:54This hearing of the subcommittee on delivering on government efficiency will come to order. Welcome everyone. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening Good morning and welcome to today's hearing.
▶ 0:09:12I would like to begin by showing a video of what DOGE is all We know and we have worked to give the American people a smaller, less bureaucratic government in Washington. And we have to give the American people one that lives within its means. The era of big government is over.
▶ 0:09:39The steps we're taking today will save the American taxpayers $9 billion and ordered federal agencies to cut billions of dollars in administrative costs and to trim 100,000 federal precisions by attrition. This report tells us how to cut waste, cut red tape, streamline the bureaucracy, change procurement rules, change the personnel rules, and create a government that works better and costs less.
▶ 0:10:09We'll consolidate departments. We'll get rid of duplicate departments. We'll allow competition to bring bring about better service at lower cost. We can downsize government by 12%. Reducing the bureaucracy by 252,000 positions. Everyone knows that getting rid of the deficit will require some tough decisions. And that includes cutting back on billions of dollars in programs that a lot of people care about.
▶ 0:10:37But what should be easy is getting rid of the pointless waste and stupid spending that doesn't benefit anybody. You're paying for thousands of buildings all across the country no one uses. Now, the government hadn't been able to sell this building and others like it because of red tape. Uh we thought that it was entirely appropriate for our governments and our agencies to try to root out waste large and small uh in a systematic way.
▶ 0:11:03And in September, Joe convened the cabinet and has really pushed them hard in finding savings across all our agencies. We need to step up our game. We need to go after every dime. We need to make government work for you. That's why starting today, I've asked the vice president to lead a renewed effort to hunt down misspent tax dollars in every agency and department of this government. We're not just eliminating fraud and waste.
▶ 0:11:30We hope to be instilling an entire new culture that not only our administration, but every succeeding administration will in fact pursue. We're going to give you the government you expect and deserve. I certainly wish that my Democrat colleagues uh felt the same as their former Democrat leaders felt and and worked to try to reduce our deficit and reduce the size of our government.
▶ 0:11:58Unfortunately, these former Democrat leaders failed uh at what they were saying they were trying to do. But today's Doge and Doge subcommittee is actually delivering on those exact promises and we are delivering the results. It's too bad that my Democrat colleagues constantly mock Doge, attack Doge, criticize Doge, and criticize the hardworking people in Doge. They also attack this committee and attack what we're all about.
▶ 0:12:26But that's today's Democrat party. They're for big government, big spending, and doing nothing for the American people. Their America last. This subcommittee has highlighted where Doge has staunched the flow of waste, fraud, and abuse in federal spending.
▶ 0:12:45Doge drove the administration to turn off the spending faucet that was pouring out billions of dollars to corrupt anti-American NOS's to illegal DEI programs and to a vast array of wasteful, unnecessary federal grants, contracts, leases, and personnel. President Trump drove this massive effort by creating Doge via executive order on inauguration day.
▶ 0:13:10He then issued a series of White House directives empowering Doge teams to work with agency leaders governmentwide in an unprecedented effort to root out wasteful spending using all means at their disposal. And that effort has borne fruit. The Doge website identifies 180 billion in savings achieved in just a matter of months. We need to make sure we lock in those savings.
▶ 0:13:38It should be the first installment we pay on our nation's $ 37 trillion debt. We need to tackle that debt on behalf of our children and future generations. That's why Congress needs to act. Doge has shown how our government can cost less and deliver more. It's shown how we can turn off the faucet. It's shown we don't need to spend all the dollars that Congress appropriated for this year.
▶ 0:14:07Congress can reverse that unnecessary spending by rescending dollars it's appropriated. That's why the administration recently sent a 9 billion recision request to Congress. By the way, you just saw Democrats on that video talking about saving nine billion dollars. Republicans just delivered on It would prevent dollars.
▶ 0:14:31Our $9 billion recision would prevent dollars from going to corrupt international organizations, to woke NOS, to NPR, and to PBS. The House adopted the legislation earlier this month, HR4, the Recision Act of 2025. But we need to do more, much more. 9 billion is just the tip of the iceberg of the waste that Doge has identified and of the spending that the administration has paused or shut off.
▶ 0:15:00So, Congress needs to work with the administration and Doge to resend billions more of dollars it has appropriated for agencies to spend. Doge has is also creating savings that will lower the cost of government for years to come. For instance, the administration is right sizing the federal bureaucracy by eliminating several hundred,000 staff positions.
▶ 0:15:26That reduces discretionary spending costs for the next year and every future year by tens of billions of dollars. So, we need to adjust those levels to of new appropriations to align with the streamlined government doge is creating. That's why the president proposed last month when he submitted to Congress a budget for next year that reduces nondiscretionary spending by 163 billion.
▶ 0:15:55If we lower the spending baseline in that way, we can save$2 trillion in that portion of the budget over the coming decade. We need to lock in doge savings for the taxpayers. And we should also be thinking about locking in the Doge process that has produced these savings. Doge has attracted enemies because it's taken on Washington's culture of spending and the money laundering schemes that have been embedded in this institution.
▶ 0:16:24We should make that a permanent battle. We should institutionalize the battle against waste, fraud, and abuse in government. I hope that is something with which my Democrat colleagues can at least agree on. Doge is working with agencies to reduce the rampant fraud that GAO says costs taxpayers as much as a half trillion dollars annually.
▶ 0:16:47To enhance fraud detection, agencies are now providing the Treasury Department more information about financial awards, and they are making more use of Treasury's do not pay database to avoid funding fraudsters. Doge is also lowering the barriers that prevent agencies from sharing data to identify duplicate duplicate awardees. What's more, Doge has pioneered what the president calls radical transparency concerning wasteful spending.
▶ 0:17:18The Doge website and individual federal agency sites continually update for public view the specific grants, contracts, leases, and other payments that they are flagging for termination. This is how you change the culture of spending. And with that, I yield to ranking member Stanbury for her opening statement. All right. Well, good morning everyone. Welcome to the Doge subcommittee.
▶ 0:17:47Notwithstanding the abject failure of the Doge enterprise inside the federal government and the epic breakup of Elon Musk and Donald Trump, here we are again once again in this committee. I'm grateful that the chairwoman showed again one of my favorite videos which she showed on the first day of the subcommittee.
▶ 0:18:05I'm grateful because it highlights the work that we've been doing for decades to root out waste, fraud, and abuse, including work that I was intimately involved in as a budget examiner in the office of management and budget in which we actually eliminated waste, fraud, and abuse. But unfortunately, as my friends across the aisle in the GOP and their Heritage Foundation witnesses are still trying to make Doge happen yet again, the American people are over it.
▶ 0:18:34In fact, you don't have to take my word for it. A poll from just two weeks ago found that 67% of voters believe Doge has done a bad job. That was just two weeks ago. And in fact, when I told one of my friends that we were having another Doge subcommittee hearing, they asked, "Really? Is that still happening?" Because literally the American people are over it.
▶ 0:18:56Except for that it's not funny because Doge has been used to wage a chaotic, destructive, and ideological war against the American people and the vital programs that they depend on. But I'm going to turn to that in just a moment here. Given everything that's happening in the world right now and with this administration, I don't think we can sit here and pretend like everything is normal.
▶ 0:19:19Because just four days ago, the president launched an unauthorized military attack in Iran without the consent of Congress, putting our troops and our bases in harm's way, as we saw just last night with the retalatory bombing of one of our largest bases. And Madam Chair, I have actually been extremely grateful and wholeheartedly agree with your outspoken advocacy against this war.
▶ 0:19:44But like so many in this administration, so many days and weeks, this follows weeks of chaos here at home. As the president has deployed US Marines and National Guard on our own soil against our own people, his DHS secretary and federal officials shoved a US senator to the ground. DOJ indicted a sitting congresswoman in this house for doing her job and tried to arrest a New York City official in a federal courthouse.
▶ 0:20:13This is not only not normal, it is dangerous. It is anti-American and it is anti-democratic. And so we're not going to sit here today and pretend like what this administration is doing is normal. And we're not going to sit here and pretend like Doge is just some normal government program. It is a scam in service of a political agenda.
▶ 0:20:37Well, we came to the table at the beginning of this whole process in good faith with real ideas, bipartisan ideas that folks have been working on for years and a desire to actually fix and modernize the federal government. What we've seen from Doge is the exact opposite. It is so failed in its stated mission of saving money that even the president asked if it was as Elon Musk was exiting the building.
▶ 0:21:02And if they want to talk about fiscal responsibility while we are sitting here, they're still trying to pass a reconciliation bill across the aisle that would saddle taxpayers with $2.5 trillion in deficit spending.
▶ 0:21:19And in the last few weeks, reports have revealed that Doge may actually have cost the federal government more than it actually saved because of the mass firings, dismantled agencies, stolen data, lawsuits, agencies in chaos, agencies that are not able to do their basic operational duties. This is not efficiency. This is a scam. And that's not even to mention the completely reckless and needless suffering that Doge has caused.
▶ 0:21:47We're talking about millions of children and people ac across the planet who no longer will have access to food and medicine because of the very nine billion dollar recision package that was just discussed. Thousands of veterans and public service member servants here at home whose lives have been shattered and millions of Americans who've been impacted by the gutting of vital programs including staffing at Social Security and now they're here today to try to make the case for making it permanent. Are you serious?
▶ 0:22:17Really? Are you serious? I can't even believe my ears. So, why are they actually trying to make Doge permanent? Well, I think I think you have to look no further than the witnesses that they've called over the last several hearings, including today. We've got the Heritage Foundation and other authors and architects of Project And so, we have to be real about what this is actually about. It's not about efficiency.
▶ 0:22:42It's about a political agenda, an ideological agenda about remaking the US government, about remaking our economy and our society in line with a hyperconservative worldview that is so unpopular that even Donald Trump tried to distance himself from Project 2025 during the campaign. And now he's hired over 70 officials to try to enact it. And now they're trying to use this committee to make the case.
▶ 0:23:10Now, they like to try to claim that they're taking on cancel c culture and a woke agenda, but let's be clear, Doge and the folks who want to make it permanent are the actual cancel culture because they want to cancel anything that they don't like or they don't agree with, including your democratic rights and your freedoms, economic opportunity and education, LGBTQ plus rights, rolling back the clock on civil rights, cancelling the history of black, chuco, and indigenous communities.
▶ 0:23:39ities and stripping protections from our families and the health care, housing, and food people depend on so that they can give more tax breaks to their friends. But this is all part of a wider agenda that is now seeking to apply political purity tests to government programs and services, including both federal employment and yes, veteran services. Let me repeat that again. even veterans benefits.
▶ 0:24:07They want to apply political purity tests to your VA benefits. Folks, this is not about efficiency. This is about eroding and privatizing our institutions, gutting programs that keep our people and our country safe. It's about rewriting history, and remaking society to take us back decades, if not centuries.
▶ 0:24:31In short, it's about making this country less free, less democratic, less prosperous, and frankly consolidating power under Trump and his allies who are becoming increasingly dangerous, ideological, and yes, So, we have to be cleareyed about what is actually going on because this administration and its allies, if they are willing to arrest and indict elected officials who are just doing their jobs, including
▶ 0:25:01a US senator and a US what will they do if we let them get away with it? We cannot and we will not remain silent. We have to continue to speak up, to speak out, and continue to stand together. I yield back. Without objection, Representative Sue Brahmanyam of Virginia is waved on to the subcommittee for the purpose of questioning the witnesses at today's subcommittee hearing. I am pleased to introduce our witnesses today.
▶ 0:25:32Matthew Dickerson is the director of budget policy at the Economic Policy Innovation Center. He is recognized as an expert on fiscal policy issues, including the budget, appropriations, and entitlement reform, and served as a senior policy adviser on the House Budget Committee. David Burton is a senior fellow in economic policy at the Heritages Foundation's Thomas Aro Institute for Economic Policy Studies.
▶ 0:25:58He is widely regarded for his deep knowledge in issues such as entrepreneurship, financial privacy, tax matters, and regulatory and administrative law. Dan Lips is a senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation. He has more than 20 years of experience in public policy, including with the Senate Government Affairs Committee. His current work is focused on enhancing government efficiency.
▶ 0:26:25Emily Devito is the senior adviser for economic policy at Groundwork Collaborative. Again, I want to thank you for being here to testify today. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9, the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
▶ 0:26:55So help you God. Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you, and you may take a seat. We appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statement and they will appear in full in the hearing record. Please limit your oral statement to five minutes. As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on and the members can hear you.
▶ 0:27:24When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your five minutes have expired and we would ask that you please wrap it up. I now recognize Mr. Dickerson for his opening Chairwoman Green, Ranking Member Stanbury, and all the members of the committee, thank you so much for inviting me to testify today.
▶ 0:27:51The fiscal state of our nation is deteriorating, and unsustainable spending is the problem. Government spending that grows faster than the economy is inherently unsustainable. That's just basic math. Annual spending is now 50% higher than it was in 2019 before the pandemic. The national debt held by the public is now equal to the size of the entire economy.
▶ 0:28:16For context, in 1944, the year of D-Day in the Battle of the Bulge, the debt as a percentage of GDP was 86%. After we went into debt to save the the world, the federal budget and the debt shrank while the economy grew in the postw World War II decades. But on our current trajectory, the debt is only projected to keep growing.
▶ 0:28:40This growing debt risks evaporating the government's fiscal space, which is its capacity to borrow without undermining debt sustainability or risking a loss of market confidence. This fiscal limit can be considered the government's true debt limit. The fiscal situation was made much worse by four years of reckless spending under the Biden administration.
▶ 0:29:02The policies of the Biden Harris increased federal spending by $4.7 trillion over just four years compared to the projections made by CBO immediately prior. President Biden's executive actions added more than $2 trillion in spending without explicit approval from Congress. The Biden administration spent hundreds of billions of dollars transferring student loan debt to the taxpayers from borrowers. They unilaterally increased food stamp benefits.
▶ 0:29:31They gutted Medicaid eligibility verification and many other policies that increase spending. The point of the American system of government based on hundreds of years of experience under the British crown was to restrict the ability of the unilateral expenditure of funds by asserting the prerogative to spend the taxpayers money unilaterally without authorization for from Congress for this new spending.
▶ 0:29:57It could be said that the Biden attempted to to act as a king. In contrast, President Trump has focused on reducing taxpayer costs and reducing the power of government. This is the whole point of Doge. Trump's discretionary budget would multiply to about $1.8 trillion of savings over the 10-year budget window. But that is only if Congress implements and continues these common sense savings. And that's why it's so important that you're holding this hearing today, Madam Chairman.
▶ 0:30:27So, thank you. to paraphrase Madison and Federalist 58, the power to levy taxes and provide spending authority and the power to withhold funds from the executive. That's the most effective way for the elected representatives of the American people to provide for the vital and appropriate services uh of the federal government as well as to prevent abuse by the government using the people's Congress has many tools at its disposal to carry out this
▶ 0:30:57vital responsibility. The most straightforward way to control waste, fraud, and abuse is by controlling agency budgets in the annual appropriations process. You can reduce the size of the federal bureaucracy. I estimate that reducing the federal workforce by 10% would allow discretionary appropriations for salaries and other benefits to be reduced by 559 to68 billion over the next decade.
▶ 0:31:23The scope of authorized agency activities should also be properly You can work with the administration as you're currently doing to resin unneeded unobligated funds. And of course, one of the most important tools at Congress's disposal to achieve budgetary savings is through the reconciliation process. America's current fiscal trajectory is unsustainable, but it's not Doge has demonstrated that meaningful savings are in fact achievable.
▶ 0:31:54By exercising its constitutional power of the purse, controlling appropriations, implementing workforce reforms, recisions, and reconciliation, Congress can lock in the doge cuts, safeguard taxpayers, and avert a fiscal crisis. Thank you, and I yield back. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Burton for his opening statement. Mr.
▶ 0:32:23Burton, can you turn it? Thank you. Apologize. And make sure when you talk your uh microphone's close to your mouth. Yeah. Thank you. President Trump deserves tremendous credit for establishing the Department of Government Efficiency, your Doge. It's the first effort in a generation to provide comprehensive governmentwide oversight of federal spending and management. There's been no similar effort since the 1990s during the Clinton administration.
▶ 0:32:50President Clinton and Speaker Gingrich controlled federal spending and improved government administration. Before that, you have to go back to President Reagan's grace commission to observe anything similar. Currently, the federal government most assuredly is not a good steward of the tax dollars taken from hardworking Americans and it's poorly managed. It's time for that to change and Doge is an important part of making that change.
▶ 0:33:14Under President Clinton in 2000, federal spending fell to 17.7% of GDP, the lowest level since 1966. The federal government ran its last surplus in fiscal year 2001, which began during President Clinton's final term. In FY25, federal spending is expected to be about of GDP.
▶ 0:33:38Thus, the sh uh share of the government now consumes of the economy is 32% greater than it was under President Clinton. The budget deficit is expected to be 6% of GDP this fiscal year and continue at that level for a decade.
▶ 0:33:54The federal debt is now $29 trillion and is expected to increase to 52 trillion or 119% of GDP over the next decade and it's projected to reach a crushing 156% of GDP by 2025. In context at the final uh year of President Reagan it was 39% and uh the final year of President Clinton's term it was 33%. federal government is on a unsustainable path.
▶ 0:34:24Uh the path uh uh will lead to uh sustained suffering among the American people, economic dislocation and a declining standard of living unless Congress changes that path. Uh no matter what the it's going to end. It can either end by making Congress make dramatic changes to the current fiscal path or it can end in fiscal calamity.
▶ 0:34:51Doge represents an effort to return to fiscal sanity and meaningfully alter our fiscal path. But Doge by itself is not enough. Although it's a major step forward towards American renewal, most of the personnel reductions, grant reductions, and other forms initiated by Doge will not result in actual savings unless Congress takes action through appropriations bills and the accompanying explanatory statements.
▶ 0:35:18Those in the administration can within certain limits reprogram spending, implement administrative efficiencies, and rely on statutes authoring the withholding of expenditures. But ultimately, the Congress is going to have to address entitlements. Let me talk for a second about improper payments.
▶ 0:35:40The GAO has estimated since FY 2003, improper payments have been $2.8 8 trillion, which is nearly a tenth of the national debt. In fiscal year 24, it was $162 billion from at least 16 different agencies. And many commentators think these are gross underestimates.
▶ 0:36:03This is a massive amount of money and seemingly no one in the executive branch uh cares or is able to solve this problem. And certainly that is a focus of of what Congress and the administration should be about. And ultimately if the federal executives in charge of these improper payments can't change it, they need to be replaced.
▶ 0:36:29Uh let me just talk for one second about the overall federal situation and need to address entitlement reforms. You could abolish the entire federal government uh and all appropriated spending and it would not get rid of the federal deficit, right? Uh you could abolish uh the Pentagon and each agency and it won't get rid of the federal government. We need to address entitlement spending. And there's a host of things that we can do.
▶ 0:36:57Uh we can obviously address the improper payment problem. Uh we can also uh adjust the entitlement program. so they reflect tremendous increases in life expectancy since they were created. Uh we can uh adjust it so that they no longer are transferring hundreds of billions of dollars a year from working young Americans to relatively wealthy old seniors.
▶ 0:37:24Programs can be consolidated and that includes Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare and the literally dozens of programs designed to address poverty. If these things are not done, then the US will eventually suffer a Greekstyled meltdown. Inflation that will make our latest round of inflation look like child's play or a gradual squeeze like what happened to Great Britain in the 60s and 70s. M Mr. Burton, we've got a wrap. Thank you. Thank you. I now recognize Mr.
▶ 0:37:55Lips for his opening statement. Chairwoman Green, Ranking Member Stanbury, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Dan Lips and I'm a senior fellow with the Foundation for American Innovation. Our mission is to advance technology, talent, and policy ideas that support a freer and more prosperous future. Earlier in my career, I served on the staff of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee where I worked on bipartisan government reform legislation and oversight.
▶ 0:38:26In my testimony, I offer you three points. First, the United States is on an unsustainable fiscal path. The Treasury Department and the Government Accountability Office have both warned that our growing national debt poses serious economic security and societal Last year, the federal government spent 882 billion just on interest payments. That's more than it spent on Medicare or national defense.
▶ 0:38:53At the same time, the government is losing hundreds of billions of dollars each year to fraud and waste. GAO has estimated that the federal government annually loses between 233 billion and 521 billion due to fraud. That's up to $4,000 per American household per year. And as we just heard, uh, last year the federal government reported making 162 billion in improper payments.
▶ 0:39:22And over the last four years, improper payments totaled more than 900 billion. Better oversight and financial controls could save hundreds of billions of dollars every Second, the Trump administration's focus on government efficiency builds on decades of bipartisan government reform efforts from the Reagan administration's Grace Commission to the Clinton Gore National Performance Review to President Obama's fiscal responsibility initiatives, including a 2009
▶ 0:39:53executive order that initiated Treasury's do not pay system. There's a history and a bipartisan tradition of executive action to root out inefficiency in the federal President Trump's new Department of Government efficiency is working to reduce federal spending, shrink the size of the federal workforce, and streamline Doge has already identified bill 180 billion in savings, and reduced regulatory burdens by eliminating over 1.7
▶ 0:40:24million words from the federal code. The the administration has also issued several executive orders informed by Doge's efforts such as to reduce fraud and improper payments by centralizing payment systems under the Treasury Department and modernizing financial transa transactions. But the executive branch cannot do this work alone. Which brings me to my final point.
▶ 0:40:48Congress should use its legislative and appropriations powers to implement lasting reforms to increase government efficiency and reduce waste, fraud, and abuse. And this should be done. This should be a bipartisan effort. Members of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee where I used to work have a tradition of passing bipartisan government reform legislation.
▶ 0:41:13For example, bipartisan legislation has been enacted and introduced in the past to reduce improper payments and prevent fraud. Key reforms to strengthen the the Treasury Department's do not pay system uh consistent with President Trump's executive orders have been included in recent bills sponsored by Democratic and Republican lawmakers. These reforms would serve as a good starting point for legislation aimed at improving government efficiency.
▶ 0:41:41In my testimony, I discuss other opportunities for government reform legislation that could achieve substantial savings. For example, GAO has identified more than 200 open recommendations for Congress and more than 5,000 open recommendations for federal agencies. These are nonpartisan good government reforms. If addressed, the federal government could save hundreds of billions of dollars.
▶ 0:42:05More broadly, Congress should consider creating an annual legislative vehicle similar to the National Defense Authorization Act, which moves every year, uh, focused specifically on government reform. This would ensure consistent legislative oversight and give the American people's representatives greater input into ongoing reforms to government In closing, improving government efficiency should not be a partisan issue. It's a fiscal necessity.
▶ 0:42:34The 119th Congress has a historic opportunity to reduce waste, prevent fraud and misspending, and begin addressing our long-term fiscal challenges. Thank you for the again for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions. I now recognize Miss Dvito for her opening statement. Chairwoman Green, Ranking Member Stanbury, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:43:00My name is Emily Devito and I am the senior adviser for economic policy at Groundwork Collaborative, an economic think tank based in Washington DC. I've previously served as a policy adviser at the Treasury Department. Americans deserve a government that works for them, a government that makes their lives easier. By that standard, Doge has failed. It has led to higher costs and more confusion and complexity. It has undermined consumer protections for families.
▶ 0:43:27All while the ambitious savings Elon Musk promised failed to materialize. Americans are not impressed with these results. Consistent polling shows strong disapproval of Doge and deep concerns about the haphazard and reckless cuts DOE is making across the federal government. Americans also believe, as do I, that the government can do more to deliver for workers and families. As the subcommittee considers the future of Doge and improving government efficiency and accountability, I would like to highlight several ways DOE has done the opposite.
▶ 0:43:57First, Doge cuts make it harder and more expensive for families to access the basic needs programs for which they're eligible. Doge's interventions at the Social Security Administration have disrupted access to critical monthly benefits for the nearly 74 million Americans, including 52 million retirees who rely on them. New policies such as restrictions on updating bank account information by phone will force seniors to collectively spend over 1 million hours annually on unnecessary travel just to receive benefits.
▶ 0:44:28Staff departures increase the risk of system outages and beneficiaries face longer wait times and poorer service at underst staffed field The Department of Veterans Affairs, which serves over 9 million veterans annually, has also seen interrupted service. The impact of Doge firings and buyout initiatives has been devastating. One rural Illinois hospital was forced to close its acute care unit due to nurse resignations.
▶ 0:44:54Orlando area veterans faced a backlog of over 2,000 unread radiology exams. And over a thousand veterans in Pennsylvania were denied treatment for life-threatening diseases like cancer. Additionally, sweeping cuts are degrading consumer protection safeguards and empowering bad actors. Doge has targeted the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which has put over 21 billion dollars back into the pockets of more than 200 million consumers since its founding.
▶ 0:45:22Eliminating this key consumer protection agency will enable exploitative companies and financial firms to profit at the expense of consumers. Doge has also gutted the IRS enforcement teams that ensure billionaires and corporations pay their fair share. As of early March, the IRS has lost 11% of its total workforce and 31% of the revenue agents who conduct audits. This is projected to reduce US revenue up to $350 billion over 10 years.
▶ 0:45:52Further, the federal science enterprise is being stripped of the tools and talent needed to develop and deliver the next generation of life-saving treatments. Recent estimates suggest that DOA's severe cuts to scientific research funding will reduce GDP and overall federal revenues well into the future by inhibiting innovation. Permanently cutting non-defense research and development funding by 50% could decrease GDP in the long run by at least 7% and federal revenues by more than 8%.
▶ 0:46:23Finally, Doge's funding disruptions to US aid and global health programs have already caused widespread deaths. Estimates suggest that the abrupt termination of public health programs will be responsible for over $360,000 deaths, including 200,000 children. Doge did not generate the $2 trillion in efficiencies that Elon Musk initially called for or even the $180 billion figure that it now claims.
▶ 0:46:49Credible analysis shows that canceled contracts, service cuts, and layoffs may have saved as little as 12 to 15 billion dollars, while total federal spending actually increased year-over-year. Now that Musk has made his exit, it's clear that Doge didn't deliver more efficiency, just poorer service. Congress is at a crossroads. It can learn from Doge's mistakes, redirect, and get back to the important work of ensuring government works for people and not special interests.
▶ 0:47:18or Congress can double down on Doge, cementing the harms that it has caused to families, communities, and our economy. For me, the choice is clear. I encourage leaders in Congress to put this dark episode behind us and deliver a government that works for working families. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions.
▶ 0:47:41The Doge website details much of the wasteful spending it and it hits the brakes on and it has an incredible list of top hits. Um, some of the spending is not just embarrassing, but it is funding actually the genital mutilation of our children, forcing the American taxpayers to pay for it.
▶ 0:48:00a 620,000 HHS grant fortrcendentalth, adapting an LGBT plus inclusive teen prevention program for transgender boys. Uh $620,000 from HHS. It's absurd. This is disgusting and it facilitates a lie. Here's another one.
▶ 0:48:24a $2,000 NIH grant for cross-sex steroid therapy and cardiovascular risk in transgender females. This is another absurd grant that was that was handed a 120,000 NIH grant for personalized 3D avatar tool development for measurement of body perception across gender identities.
▶ 0:48:51Here's another absurd grant that again tells the lie that there's more than two genders. There's only two, male and female. That's it. Something else that the American people should know about these radical extremist judges that are playing politics from the bench. A judge ruled that this has to be protected. This is a this is a um HHS uh program for gender affirming care and young people.
▶ 0:49:19Again, the only thing that affirms gender is the fact that there's only two sexes, male and female, and the American people should never have to pay for that lie. MVito, in your testimony, you talk about so-called failures of Doge in in your opinion. But do you support the federal government funding HHS and NIH studies that promote the genital mutilation of children? Do you support forcing Americans to pay for genital mutilation of children? Yes or no, Miss Devito? Thank you for your question.
▶ 0:49:50I think we all agree that the government should work for people. No, I asked you, do you support genital mutilation of children and the American people having to pay for it? That's a yes or no question. I think government research is responsible for all all sorts of innovations that we So you do. So, for the record, you do support the American people paying for top and bottom surgeries of children. Cutting off the breast of of young girls, teenage girls, and castrating teenage boys. You support the American people paying for that.
▶ 0:50:18I think government research is incredibly important. That's not research, Miss Devito. That's mutilating kids bodies before they're old enough to vote, before they're old enough to join the military, before they're old enough to even be adults. That's that's what you're saying the American people should pay for. Just so you know, uh, Miss Devito, and I'm I'm very proud to announce that I have a bill called Protect Children's Innocence Act that will criminalize sex changes on children. And that bill will see a vote on the House floor.
▶ 0:50:47And I look forward to my Republican colleagues and hopefully hopefully Democrats that come to their senses voting yes for that bill because it's absolutely repulsive and disgusting and America voted against that this past election. Mr. Dickerson.
▶ 0:51:06Um, how do we implement cuts and appropriations moving forward to prevent these agencies from ever being able to fund these studies that promote the mutilation of children's bodies ever again? I think what you need to do is ensure those writers are included in the appropriations bills that are passed that to clarify to the agencies that even though they have never actually received authorization for these, so they shouldn't have actually done it in the first place, but if they they need that funding writer
▶ 0:51:37to restrict American taxpayer funds for going to those those terribly divisive and and harmful things. Yeah. Permanently, right? Thank you. other egreg egregious abuses of funds. A 10 million Department of Education grant to the Virginia Commonwealth University for faculty workshops on decolonizing the curriculum.
▶ 0:51:57A nearly 700,000 National Science Foundation grant to the University of Tennessee for black and latinex parents leading reform in advancing racial justice in elementary mathematics. a project that could provide a model for other communities and schools seeking to advance racial justice in mathematics and education. This is insane, absurd, and it's racist in itself. Math is math.
▶ 0:52:22A 500,000 EPA grant, green jobs, growing a new generation of environmental justice problem solvers. All of this stuff is far-left ideology, and the American people should not be paying for it. Um, it looks like my time's up. So, with that, I'll yield to the ranking member Stanbury for five. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Uh, as we get started here, we would like to show a brief video.
▶ 0:52:59Sir, sir, hands up. Hands up. I'm Senator Alex Padilla. I have questions for the secretary because the fact of the matter is a half a dozen violent criminals that you're rotating on your on your I also want to ground on the ground. Hands behind your back. Hands behind your back.
▶ 0:53:28If you feel my hands, go ahead and put behind my back. All right, cool. Other hand lay flat. Lay flat. Other hand. Turn. Other Now, I want to start by describing what we just saw there.
▶ 0:53:51For any of the American people out there who have not seen this video yet, that is United States Senator Alex Padilla being handcuffed in a federal building after self-identifying as a United States at a cabinet secretaries DHS public press conference. This happened two weeks ago.
▶ 0:54:22A few days later, they tried to arrest a New York City official in a federal courthouse. A few days after that, there was a politically motivated assassination of a state legislator in Minnesota. This is not normal.
▶ 0:54:43This is the sign of an authoritarian approach to governance that is threatening our democracy and our So we can sit here today and debate government efficiency. We can sit here and listen to lies from both our colleagues and from witnesses about what has been done by former and current But what is happening in this country right now is not normal.
▶ 0:55:15What they are trying to do through the budget is not normal. The recisions package that they're trying to shove down your throats right now with $9 billion in cuts is not normal. That's not the programs that they're describing. They want to dismantle the United Nations. They want to defund NATO. They want to defund programs that keep children fed across the world.
▶ 0:55:41They're trying to defund programs that have saved literally hundreds of thousands of lives of people in countries across the planet. And we just heard witnesses here just a few moments ago say that they're not satisfied with what they've already done and the damages that they're already doing. They want to go after entitlement programs. That means your social security. That means Medicare. That means they're going to come for your programs.
▶ 0:56:11The programs that are lifesaving, that sustain people as they age, the lifesaving programs that make it possible for people with disabilities to live with dignity in this country. They are coming for those So, we're not going to sit here and pretend like what's happening in this hearing is normal at a time when this administration is using Doge to enact an ideological agenda against the American people
▶ 0:56:42while they're out there trying to arrest US senators and members of because this is not okay. This is not We all agree the government should be more efficient. We all agree that we should cut waste. We all agree that there should be bipartisan pathways forward to make the government operate in a modern manner. But that's not what this enterprise is all about.
▶ 0:57:10This enterprise is about consolidating power and endangering the lives of people that they disagree with, including people who ask questions doing their jobs in public settings. And if they will do that to a United States senator, what will they do to the rest of us? So, we're not going to sit here today and normalize this behavior. We're just not We're just not going to do that. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 0:57:39I strongly support law enforcement for protecting the Secretary of Homeland. Um I wouldn't recognize Senator Padilla if he walked in this room. Uh I now recognize Mr. Timmons from South Carolina for 5 minutes. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. We have $37 trillion in debt. We have a $ 1.8 trillion annual deficit. The fact that this is a partisan issue and the fact that my colleagues across the aisle are not taking this seriously is really frustrating. It's really, really frustrating. We haven't even talked about social security, which goes into austerity measures.
▶ 0:58:09My constituents and your constituents all over this country will receive 21% less if we do not save social security. These are just facts. This is just math. So, we have to do our job here. We have to do our job here. And some of the most important work Doge has done in the last six months is just simply on increasing transparency. Their website shows the public how taxpayer funds are actually being distributed and justified on a daily basis.
▶ 0:58:34The Doge Initiative has shown that enhanced payment tracking and upfront verification can eliminate billions in waste. And we must make these practices standard, not exceptional. Tens of billions of dollars are lost each year to improper payments across Medicaid, unemployment insurance, SNAP, housing assistance, and more. Most people do not realize that there are 17 means social safety nets that total more than $1.5 trillion in annual government spending. And a good portion of these are improper payments.
▶ 0:59:04And it is simply due to lacks or outdated income verification processes. So all these different social safety nets that we appropriately provide to Americans, um they require that you have a an income threshold that you do not meet. And we tell the states that they have leeway and how to do that. But it's a patchwork framework and it's all antiquated. Certain states require payubs, W2s, other income documents to the IRS. It's just simply not enough. This is 2025. Technology can solve this problem.
▶ 0:59:33We should be leveraging all incomes in income sources in real time and continuously to verify eligibility for federal benefit programs. No more pay and chase. No more hoping the paperwork matches up months later. And no more guesswork. Shockingly, in the big beautiful bill, the House proposal to simply require states to confirm eligibility twice a year instead of only once resulted in 11 billion in savings. What if we confirmed income eligibility in real time?
▶ 1:00:02That's why I introduced HR 1755, the Timely and Accurate Benefits Act or TABS Act to require states to adopt enhanced income verification across their federal benefits programs to get people the benefits they deserve faster and to stop payments to those who no longer qualify immediately. Now, now let's zoom out. Income verification is one example of a broader problem. Federal agencies are swimming in waste, fraud, abuse, and redundancy.
▶ 1:00:28And thanks to Doge, we now have a public-f facing receipt book of over $180 billion in identified savings. From unnecessary grants to absurd leases to federal offices with no measurable output, DOA is shining a light on the insane bloat of our frivolous spending. And again, this is critical work that must be done. We have $37 trillion in debt and run a $ 1.8 trillion annual deficit. Our social safety nets will fail if we do not make appropriate changes to save them. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:00:58Lips, Doge is attempting to overcome barriers to data sharing among and within agencies to enhance fraud detection. Isn't the inability to cross-check databases a problem historically in identifying Absolutely. And thank you for the question.
▶ 1:01:13Um, Congressman, it's important to to look at this history around improper payments that uh there was a executive order issued by President Obama establishing the do not pay system that the Treasury Department has been try using to try and u increase verification and tighten controls over uh federal payments.
▶ 1:01:33Um but we that was um more than 15 years ago and we've seen um hundreds of billions of dollars of improper payments you reported annually um over those past 15 years. It's important to know that the um Treasury Department has been asking for help asking for the ability to share information. A a long time ago uh the Social Security Administration couldn't um share information about deceased Americans with the Treasury Department. That stopped for a few years. um they can now do that.
▶ 1:02:03But there's a lot more that can be done to share information between agencies to stop fraud and and prevent improper payments. There have been bills introduced both uh um in the Senate and the House to do that. Bills by um Republican members and uh Democratic members. I'm running out of time. Let me finish. Um so this is not a maybe. This is a must piece of legislation. We cannot continue down this path. Uh my bill came from a Missouri pilot program that resulted in 17% savings.
▶ 1:02:3317% of just Medicaid is $140 billion annually. Annually 17% across all social safety nets that are means tested is $250 billion. We are running out of time. We got to pass these pieces of legislation. We got to use technology to make sure that we're being efficient with our tax dollars. With that, Madam Chair, I yield back. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Miss Norton of Washington DC for 5 Thank you, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:03:03Uh, federal workers are essential not just to the fabric of the District of Columbia, but to the functioning of the federal government and in turn to the well-being of every American. Federal workers make sure that social security checks go out on time. They provide health care to our veterans. They make sure planes land safely. They make sure food and drinking water is safe.
▶ 1:03:33Their work is critical to uh of the government and making people making sure people, families, and communities get the services and resources they need.
▶ 1:03:45The so-called Department of Government Efficiencies gut gutting of the workforce has meant the senseless, tragic and irreparkable loss of more than a 100,000 public servants so far, each of whom has had their own life of ended.
▶ 1:04:10Uh, Miss Devito, uh, what do we lose when we push qualified experts, uh, out of their roles serving the American people? Thank you for the question, DOA's widespread staff cuts represent a huge loss of potential and talent from the federal workforce. As you said, many of these workers are located in DC, but most are not.
▶ 1:04:40Um, they're the people who make sure food is safe to eat, that Medicaid applications are processed in a timely way, that Social Security benefit checks go out the door. So far, we've lost thousands of these workers, and their loss is devastating not just to the communities in which they live and serve, but to the American public as a Uh, and Mr.
▶ 1:05:00O and what are the effects of the department of government driving early career employees from federal service? Young and probationary employees are people who by definition are just tending to start out in their careers in public service. Some of them might have had decades ahead of them dedicated to making sure that the government works for people.
▶ 1:05:27Um, and Doge firing probationary employees gots a generation of that talent from the President Trump is also working to steadily politicize the federal by attacking civil service protections, replacing nonpartisan federal employees with partisan loyalists, by reclassifying federal positions as political jobs, and introducing loyalty tests to the federal hiring process.
▶ 1:05:58Mr. Devito. How does the gutting and politization of the federal workforce hurt everyday people, reduce access to the services and protections they are entitled to, and generally harm uh For the government to work for people, it needs people, workers behind the scenes, making sure that um all of the vital functions of the federal government are happening in a timely manner that
▶ 1:06:28best serves the population. Um when you gut the federal workforce, you obviously lose that talent. You undermine the resources, programs, functions of the federal government. Um and politicizing certain agencies uh undermines the overall effect of of those agencies.
▶ 1:06:47So you see a lot more politicization of um things like apolitical regulators, people who are um trained and uh and focused on making sure that they are serving the interests of the public and not one particular person or administration.
▶ 1:07:05in in in April, uh, Department of Government Efficiency officials, including a 25year-old with no federal government experience, recklessly purged 15,000 employees of the Consumer Financial uh, Protection Bureau.
▶ 1:07:26uh that is about 90% of the AY's workforce which had been dedicated to protecting Americans from deceptive and abusive financial practices like pred lending mito uh what impact does the hollowing out of his civil service from federal government agencies and regulatory bodies like the consumer Financial
▶ 1:07:56Protection Bureau have on consumers and the broader economy. The CFPB and other financial regulators don't just make sure that consumer interests are protected, but they keep the economy stable, they keep our financial system safe and secure, and that benefits businesses and families across the country. The gentle lady's times expired. I now recognize Mr. Berlesen from Missouri for five minutes.
▶ 1:08:28Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you everyone for being here today. I, like everyone in my constituents, are fed up with watching Washington squander their money on frivolous programs and bloated bureaucracies. Which is why the Department of Government Efficiency was the most exciting thing that when I went back home and talked to constituents about it's the most exciting thing that was that's that was happening with this administration.
▶ 1:08:56And look, this is this is an example of what private sector can do when it's when it when it's uh evaluating a bloated public se sector system that uh seems to be resistant to everything. When I spoke with Mr. Musk. Um, I I warned him.
▶ 1:09:15I said I just you you know this place is a swamp for a reason and and you cannot rely on the politicians and the people in this in this town to help you in evaluating or determining places to cut. They will only deliver what they what they want. Right.
▶ 1:09:37And that's there's a reason why it being in our hands, we're at $37 trillion in debt and we have all of these wasted expenditures. So, Mr. Dickerson, I'm going to ask um you three the same question. If you had any if you had any um anything to say to the Doge efforts, to the Doge team, and to Mr. Musk, what would you say? I would say keep up the good it's been a good start so far and keep up the good work. Mr.
▶ 1:10:07Burton, excuse me. I I think there's the need for them to get beyond just cancelling grants and starting to work with you to draft legislation to make these changes permanent. If Congress ultimately doesn't act either through appropriations bills or recisions, uh it's going to be ephemeral. Uh there's also the need to make changes on the regulatory front. There's needs to change various secretary directives.
▶ 1:10:35They they need to take it to the next step to bring it home and they haven't done that. Thank you, Mr. Lips. I agree with that point. I think the most important thing they could do now would be to work with the members of this committee and the Congress on government efficiency reforms, many of which I think should have broad support among uh Mr. Devito, let me ask you this.
▶ 1:10:57you've seen a lot of the Doge cuts and the programs is can you is there a single one that you would have agreed with a single one part of the problem I think with with the answer yes or no don't eat up my time is there a single one that you would have agreed with I don't think there is a yes or no answer to that question okay well I'm I'm not going to waste my time um I I want to dive into Mr. Burton and what you said.
▶ 1:11:26So the question is why why isn't Congress why what what should happen to force Congress to actually make these cuts that have been identified? Congress needs to legislate and and it hasn't been. I mean the GAO has made countless proposals. Uh the improper payments have been around for decades and literally involve trillions of dollars. No one's fixed that.
▶ 1:11:50That's one of the few things though that the administration has the ability through administrative changes to do on their own because they're legally uh required not to spend that money and yet it's going on. Uh Congress needs to appropriate the appropriators. There needs to be changes in the authorizing committee. A lot of the grants that the chairwoman was referencing uh could be prohibited through authorizing legislation.
▶ 1:12:17Congress needs to legislate and in some level it sort of has forgotten how to do so. Do you think that that we could? Yes, you do. In fact, I'm old enough to remember when you guys did. Well, you I I may be just just above being blackpilled at this point. Um so, you're giving me a little bit of hope here, but um if Mr. Mr.
▶ 1:12:39Dickerson, if if you could make one significant change, what would be the most significant change uh or policy change that we could do that would save save taxpayers dollars? I think one of the most important things you can do is exactly what you're doing in uh the one big beautiful bill reconciliation package which is reform our uh welfare programs that literally pay people to stay out of the workforce and have the entirely the wrong disincentives uh so that we can actually preserve benefits for people who are actually needy,
▶ 1:13:09right? Things like income verification that Mr. Timmons was talking about. That's so essential to do. Mr. lips. If the if you could change one thing, if you if we passed one thing, what would she what would we do? I'd recommend uh strengthening the death or the um do not pay um data that's available to the Treasury Department. This is a bipartisan measure that could be um I think passed through uh the the House and Senate. It would provide access to Treasury to stop improper payments and end fraud. Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman times has expired.
▶ 1:13:39I now recognize Mr. Casar from Texas for five minutes. Good morning. Today, Republicans have called this Doge hearing called locking in the Doge cuts ending waste, fraud, and abuse for good. And I'm deeply concerned about the cuts that Doge has made to services for our veterans. So, I want to ask our pro- Doge witnesses today some questions about those cuts. So, Mr. lips.
▶ 1:14:05ProPublica reported that Doge cuts have stalled life-saving clinical trials for our veterans with head and neck neck cancer, otherwise known as throat cancer. Can you tell me are life-saving clinical trials for our veterans waste or are they fraud or are they abuse? I think that's an area of government that is certainly vital and that there's many things that can be done to improve VA services. I'm do not know all that Doge has done for the VA.
▶ 1:14:32And I think that if there's anywhere we where you could um repurpose funds from these waste that we're talking about, hundreds of billions of dollars misspent, but if they but if they cut the clinical trials that are helping our veterans with throat cancer, do you agree with those cuts? No. Thank you. Uh Mr. Dickerson. Leaked documents revealed that a VA hospital in rural Illinois was just forced to close its acute care unit to new patients due to the Doge cuts.
▶ 1:15:00Can you tell me is closing the doors of a VA acute care unit waste or is it fraud or is it abuse? I don't know all the details about that particular instance. Uh but I think that uh would you say it's a big problem if Doge cuts cause the closing of an acute care facility in a VA hospital? Uh, like I said, I think if if funding that facility is a is a priority, we're running a $2 trillion annual I think it is a priority. So, we can repurpose funds to something if it's a priority.
▶ 1:15:30So, you think it if you think that if it's not a priority that it's waste? I think that's for Congress to and the administration to work together to to determine. Exactly. It's for Congress to work on and the administration should not be calling our acute care veterans facilities waste and closing the doors of an acute care facility without Congress. And frankly, it is a priority, I believe, of the American people to care for our veterans. Mr.
▶ 1:15:56Burton, Trump recently eliminated the VA services purchasing program, which just last year helped more than 33,000 veterans make sure that they don't get behind on their mortgage and they don't get thrown out of their home. Can you tell me is this program that Doge cut is it waste? Is it fraud? Or is it abuse? That's highly fact dependent and I'm not that familiar with that program. I will tell you one thing. And I'll tell you, Mr. Burton, I'm familiar with it.
▶ 1:16:24It helped 33,000 of our veterans not lose their homes. And in my view, our veterans are not waste, fraud, or abuse, nor are they a piggy bank for billionaires tax cuts like Elon Musk. I doubt any anyone This is my my time, Mr. Burden. Yep. Fine. I am I am deeply concerned that President Trump will take reckless action to risk sending more American troops into endless wars in the Middle East.
▶ 1:16:51But back at home, he's breaking the sacred promise to our veterans to care for them when and if they come back. Donald Trump has already tried to fire thousands of people at the VA. And recent reporting shows that there are plans to try to fire 80,000 people at the VA. These reckless doge cuts have thrown VA hospitals into chaos. And in my own district, I've gotten reports of veterans waiting months for basic services like a wheelchair.
▶ 1:17:19I represent San Antonio, Texas, Military City, USA, where we honor the service of our men and women in uniform. And if we want to honor our veterans, we honor it with more than just words. We take actions to care for them when they come home. We don't needlessly send people into harm's way and we don't cut their services for when they come home. This hearing should not be holding hearings, the committee should not be holding hearings on locking in Doge cuts.
▶ 1:17:47We should be holding hearings about restoring services for our veterans. And while Doge is screwing over our veterans, the administration is also stealing from seniors. We just learned about a huge new scandal that every senior in America needs to hear about. After Trump and Musk made massive cuts to the staff at the Social Security Administration, they've scrubbed government websites of information about how long it takes to get your phone call answered.
▶ 1:18:14They have erased from the websites the delays that it takes to process benefit claims. They have wiped away what used to be publicly available about how long it takes to respond to a 1-800 call at the Social Security Administration. This is a cover up. And why are they covering it up? Because wait times have exploded. A brave whistleblower just estimated that Trump's changes and Elon Musk's cuts have doubled the amount of time it takes to process a Social Security claim. Everybody needs to hear about it.
▶ 1:18:43Social Security is not Elon Musk's piggy bank. I yield back. The gentleman yields, "No one loves veterans more than President Trump, and he's made that apparent. That's why he's working for peace." Madam Chair, right now, it's not your time. It I'm the chair of this committee. That's not how procedure. You're not recognized, Miss Stanberry. You're not recognized either. You can't just speak anytime you want. I'm the chair of this committee. That's not how it stands. You're not recognized.
▶ 1:19:10That is not how parts you're not all day. But that's not how Stansbury, you're not recognized. We're going to get you a Robert. Miss Stansbury, you're not committ. You're not recognized. Point of order. Understand parliamentary procedure. Point of order. Point of order. All right. Madam Chair, calm down. Let's move on. Miss Stansbury, you're not recognized. Point of order. Madam Madam Chair, I've got Oh, I'm sorry. You had a point of order. So, go ahead. Madam Chair, can can we decide who's going to speak first and we don't? Absolutely.
▶ 1:19:41I'm the chair of this committee and Mr. Gil Mr. Gil from Texas is recognized for 5 minutes. Madam Chair, I had unanimous consent. I was trying to Without objection. Thank you so much. Uh this is from Citizens for Responsible Reporting. Do's big illusion. The heavy cost of Trump administration's so-called cuts. Um I have another one. Trump administration scrambles to rehire key federal workers after Doge firing. That's four hours ago. Um I have another one. How will we know if Doge is succeeding?
▶ 1:20:11I have another one. How the Trump administration's doge cuts are harming women. I have another one. How Trump's Doge cuts package could put GOP in a bind. I I have more, but I'll do them later. Thank you. Without objection. So ordered. I now recognize Mr. Gil from Texas for 5 minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Never gets boring in here. Um and I'd like to say thank you uh to the witnesses for being here and for taking the time. Uh Miss Devito, thank you for for coming here.
▶ 1:20:38Um, you've in in your testimony, you said that Americans deserve a government that works for them, a government that makes their lives easier and more secure. Is that correct? Yes, sir. Great. I'd like to read read through a couple of the grants um that that Doge has pulled back and I'd like to get your take on them. Um, they pulled back a $1.5 million NIH grant to Morehouse College.
▶ 1:21:03It was called uh the center to advance reproductive justice and behavioral health among black women in birthing people. Do you think that that makes Americans lives easier and more secure? I think that medical and scientific research of all types. Do you think that that constitutes critical research? According to your testimony, NIH grants are critical research. I think that government research of all types in the medical including a birthing people.
▶ 1:21:33I think bench research of all types plays a fundamental role. What is a birthing Sir, I am here to talk about the doge impact. Well, I'm asking you about this grant and you're defending it. So, I'm asking you what what is who is birthing people? I am not familiar with this grant. Mhm. I take a position that all kinds of government research, medical, pharmacy, is a birthing person a woman. Is that another word for female?
▶ 1:22:04That is outside the scope of my expertise. Seems like eraser language to me. I've been told that that type of uh vernacular constitutes eraser language. How about how about another one? How about the uh conference gender equity in the mathematical study of commutative algebra? Do you think that that's a valid form of government spending? I think mathematical research of all types is deserving of government. What about studying? And this is directly from the National Science Foundation's website.
▶ 1:22:34Women and non-binary mathematicians. Again, I think all kinds of government investment should be dedicated toward mathematics. All kinds of government investment. You don't you don't have any kind of limit on on what we're spending our money on just everything. Is that your testimony? I am talking about Doge. You brought up the So am I. This is a a grant that Doge cut. I am not familiar with this particular grant, but I think government investment in mathematical biological. Let's let's do another one.
▶ 1:23:03This one is called uh hashtrcendent health adapt adapting an LGB plus inclusive teen pregnancy prevention program for transgender boys. I can't even say this without laughing. Um do you think that that is a a you know useful form of our tax spend?
▶ 1:23:26I am not familiar with that grant but I think bench research government investment in scientific and teen pregnancy for transgender boys. Do you think that that is a a useful spend of our tax dollars? I think government investment in all kinds of scientific research is of the utmost importance including pregnancy prevention for transgender boys. Okay. Um let me ask you we can come back to this later maybe.
▶ 1:23:55Um, do you support abolishing the filibuster still? I am here to talk about Doge, respectfully. Right. We could abolish the filibuster and get a lot of Doge cuts through. And you've you've written at length on your Twitter about abolishing the filibuster. I'm just curious if you think that we should do that still. I did a lot of previous work on different topics because I am an economic policy expert and respectfully, I'm here to talk about Doge cuts. Okay.
▶ 1:24:22But we could we could abolish the filibuster and get Doge cuts. This is totally germanine here. Do you think we I am here to talk about Doge cuts, not strategies for achieving more of them, but the harms that they have produced for working families. That's a convenient change of opinion. Um I noticed that most of your uh comments about the filibuster were during the Biden administration. Um but we we can move on. Let's go back to some some more of these grants.
▶ 1:24:53Do you think that uh we should be spending money on quote the racialized basis of trait judgments from faces? I am not at all familiar with that grant. It's a $500,000 NSF grant. Okay. I am not familiar with the subject matter um or the But you're defending these. I am saying that I think the government you're pretty adamant against Doge cuts and I'm asking you if you support the cuts.
▶ 1:25:19I think that there is found economic and medical public health benefit to what about cross sex steroid therapy and cardiovascular risk in the transgender female? Again, I think government investment in scientific research is important. Thank you for your testimony. I appreciate it. The gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize Miss Crockett from Texas for 5 minutes. Yes, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:25:44I'd actually like to subpoena um the former head of Doge if we could subpoena Elon Musk. Um can we take a vote on that? This hearing will suspend. Is the clerk in place? Do we have a Can I make a motion that we subpoena Elon Musk right now? The the hearing has suspended. Oh, what?
▶ 1:27:07Point of order. Madame Chair, we're suspended. A point of inquiry. I'm I'm trying to ask a question. The hearing is suspended. If you can have some patience, we're suspended. The hearing will now resume. Miss Crockett, do you have a motion? I didn't have a motion.
▶ 1:27:37I had a point of order. I was trying to determine how long it was going to take for us to call the role. I can call it if need be. Well, if you don't if you're not making a motion, then um you can continue with your five minutes of question. motion was to subpoena Elon Musk, who was heading Doge, who is the one that made the recommendations for these cuts. Yet, he has yet to come before this committee. And last time I checked, none of the witnesses sitting here know anything about Doge except for what they read on the internet. I want to talk to the person. This isn't either.
▶ 1:28:07You've made your motion. Okay. Well, you were asking, so I wanted to make sure you made your motion. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Burch. Mr. Burch it. Chair lady, I'd like uh make a motion to table that motion. The motion is not debatable as many are as in favor of tableabling uh the motion signify by saying I. I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no. No.
▶ 1:28:37In the opinion of the chair, the yays have it. Madam chair, we'd ask for a recorded vote is agreed to. A recorded vote is ordered. The clerk will call the role. Yeah, call it. We're going to wait one moment. The clerk will get the voting. Okay.
▶ 1:29:05the clerk will prepare for the vote and then we'll go from there. The hearing is suspended.
▶ 1:31:40Mic check. One, two, one, two.
▶ 1:34:24What am I waiting? Recorded vote is ordered. The hearing will resume. A recorded vote is ordered. The clerk will call the role. Mr. Cloud. No. Mr. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Cloud votes yes. Mr. Fallon. Mr. Timonss. Yes. Mr. Timmans votes yes. Mr. Burchett.
▶ 1:34:56Mr. Burchett votes I. Mr. Berles. Mr. Jack. I. Mr. Jack votes I. Mr. Gill. I. Mr. Gil votes I. Miss Stanberry. Miss Norton. Mr. Lynch. No. Mr. Lynch votes no. Mr. Mr. Casar. No. Mr.
▶ 1:35:26Crockett or Miss Crockett? No. Miss Green. Yes. To table. The clerk will report the tally.
▶ 1:35:56Madame chair, the eyes are yes, the nos are four. The yays have it and the motion to table is agreed to. The committee will now I now recognize Miss Crockett for 5 minutes. Thank you so much. You know what?
▶ 1:36:10It's interesting because we sit here in the Department of Government Efficiency Subcommittee and the most inefficient thing that we have done since we have uh had the invention of this nonsense was the fact that we have decided that we will not do accountability or oversight over Doge because we have failed to bring in the person who actually runs Doge.
▶ 1:36:33In fact, we have decided or actually y'all decided that we wouldn't even debate why it is that we should or should not subpoena Elon Musk. In fact, y'all are just trying to get rid of the musky smell because it wasn't working out very well for you. And now you want to pretend as if you are coming in here to do exactly what your constituents want you to do.
▶ 1:36:56But the last time I checked, y'all didn't want to go talk to your constituents because if there was one thing they were complaining about, it was Elon and it was Doge. You didn't want to hear those. And listen, if I had time, I would run the tape, but I only got five minutes because there's plenty of video footage of all of y'all getting your butts handed to you when you went home and people told you how they felt about Doge. So, let's talk about it for a quick second.
▶ 1:37:21Americans are looking for help, but instead of offering it to them, the Republicans have unleashed the most aggressive attack on the working-class families in American history. And they have been excited to do so. In fact, they are here today arguing to make all the chaos, confusion, and destruction caused by Doge permanent. They want hungry kids to be permanent. They want sicker Americans to be permanent. They want homeless veterans to be permanent. Shuttered hospitals to be permanent. disrupted social security benefits to be permanent.
▶ 1:37:52They sold out their constituents to give permanent tax breaks to billionaires and they're doing it and now they want to have a victory lap celebrating the pain of their constituents. So, Miss Devito, let's go through some of the things that the Republicans have done to see if they're helpful or harmful to Americans. Helpful or harmful. Stripping healthcare away from 16 million people. I would say harmful. Laying off hundreds of thousands of federal workers, harmful.
▶ 1:38:20Disrupting or delaying federal services such as Social Security, harmful. Medicaid, harmful. SNAP benefits, harmful. Cutting billions from agencies like NIH harmful. EPA harmful. HUD harmful. FDA harmful. All right, seems like you understand the assignment. There's an entire agenda in that is attacking the workingclass Americans from start to finish.
▶ 1:38:47And then the thing is they told us that they were going to do this, but you know, they pretended as if they knew nothing about the playbook that was laid out by good old Heritage All of this talk about lowering costs and reducing waste is absolute BS. Their agenda is about one thing, making the federal government so weak that they can exploit it for their personal gain. They're stealing your data to help their companies. They're taking away your healthcare and food assistance to fund tax cuts for billionaires.
▶ 1:39:17Their agenda is pro- disinformation, pro- obstruction, pro- greed, and pro-exloitation. If you didn't know, that's what Doge actually spells out. O obstruction, Greed, and E exploitation. And congressional Republicans have been complicit in this agenda. They've helped this administration terrorize the public. They've allowed this administration to launch the country into a war without congressional approval.
▶ 1:39:45And while we're talking about saving money, let me tell you, just dropping those few bombs in one day, that was the beginning of what is going to be a very long bill for us. As they talk about being efficient, there was nothing efficient about doing it.
▶ 1:40:00And maybe if there was some consultation maybe with those that say have constitutional authority since we care about the constitution, then maybe we could have saved the American people not only money but the lives that are now at risk as we have to put out warnings for American citizens in this country and abroad. Maybe we need to start leading with the people at the the middle of what it is that is guiding us instead of following one person.
▶ 1:40:30The reason that people like me say things like y'all are in a cult is because somehow people are abdicating their duties and abdicating the very people that put them into office. But I got 30 seconds. They've allowed this administration to steal congressionally approved money. Money for cancer research and food delivery to vulnerable communities. They've allowed Elon Musk to infiltrate your medical records and banking data. They've allowed this administration to ignore court rulings.
▶ 1:40:56And now Republicans are here patting themselves on the back, literally arguing to make this chaos permanent. So, Americans are going to continue to live through chaos and destruction that has been occurring ever since he swore in in January. And I hope y'all remember who caused this cuz it wasn't Gentle lady's time has expired. The congressional republican the gentle ladies time has expired. I now recognize Mr. Burchett from Tennessee. Thank you, Chair Lady.
▶ 1:41:25I would remind members of both sides of the aisle that um that President Trump's approval rating is soaring and last I checked, congressional approval is is not. And I think that bears witness. Um Mr. Dickerson and Mr. Burton, do you think Congress would withdraw should withdraw additional funds other than the 9 billion recently approved by the House? Absolutely. The federal budget is entirely out of control.
▶ 1:41:55There are hundreds of billions of dollars of improper payments. There are tremendous numbers of agencies whose missions are not being fulfilled and are wasting money. there's the opportunity for many many tens of billions of dollars of additional recisions. Wholeheartedly agree. And just yesterday uh we passed unanimously. It was like pulling teeth though.
▶ 1:42:20And I give a lot of credit to the chairlady for helping me u get the bill across the finish line of we were sending millions of dollars every week to the Taliban if you can imagine that. and then and the NOS's and that money flows right back to um dark money or possibly in members of this body's pockets or their families I suspect and well huge amounts of the money flows to very wealthy beltway bandits
▶ 1:42:50that live around here. Yes, sir. I would agree with that. What other programs and activities should be looked at for additional cuts? I think there's a whole host of things that you can look at to fix the federal budget.
▶ 1:43:07Uh for example, uh Congress has allowed the Biden administ administration to spend billions of dollars to facilitate the uh illegal immigration, for example, in the migration and refugee assistance account uh in the DHS shelter and services account uh that has open helped facilitate open borders and transport illegal immigrants all throughout the country into your districts across the country.
▶ 1:43:32Uh, we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on abortion providers to literally kill American citizens. I think that's a terrible thing. We spend billions of dollars subsidizing green energy research. Uh, that makes our our grid more inefficient. Uh, so there's lots of great examples that we could go on about. Yeah, the list is extraordinarily long, but the big money is two places, health care and entitlements.
▶ 1:43:59The United States spends twice as much as a percentage of GDP and the OECD average on health care, which is well over a trillion dollars we might as well burn because we don't get better health outcomes than major European countries.
▶ 1:44:14And then the entitlements uh of which there are you know three major ones or uh Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid but also Obamacare and dozens of programs some effective some not meant to alleviate poverty but there's tremendous waste duplication and and opportunities for savings there. Mr. Lips I see you itching to get on the mic and I need to ask you a question followup but you go ahead. Thank you sir.
▶ 1:44:43Uh, I think a a great area to focus on would be implementing watchdog recommendations. The GAO has put together a list of more than 200 recommendations for Congress and 5,000 recommendations for federal agencies. GAO says that this could save upwards of $200 billion. What is JO? We don't use initials in my office. What does that stand for? The Government Accountability Office. Okay. All right. You think Congress should codify the Doge or certain aspects of its operations? I think it's a good question. I I don't know that it's necessary.
▶ 1:45:13I think that I would recommend cottifying and putting strength behind the executive orders trying to improve program integrity um measures within Treasury. The do not pay system needs help. It needs more information and you could save hundreds of billions of dollars. M Mr. Burton, Mr. Dickerson, should we have a group of people at each agency are focused on cost savings? Yes, I think everybody at every agency should be focused on that.
▶ 1:45:41You know, as as fiscally responsible as the state of Tennessee is, uh low tax state, no debt, they have um I've seen that in in the individual counties even they're talking about this. So, I think it's one thing the residual of this will be hopefully some long-term savings and elimination of waste, abuse, and fraud. Uh Doge is subjecting federal spending to a higher level of scrutiny. What level of spend uh spending scrutiny do you think is important?
▶ 1:46:12Not sure I entirely understand the Yeah. I mean I would Well, how how deep should we go? Oh, how about that? We should I I think a reasonable objective would be to get back to level of federal spending during President Clinton's term. We would balance the budget. I'd just like to see us go back to precoid level spending. Thank you, chair lady. The madam madam chair I have a unanimous without objection. Thank you so much.
▶ 1:46:42Um this is just from a couple of hours ago. Trump pivots to distractions as polls show collapsing support for his agenda. Without objection. So the next one is Donald Trump's approval rating plunges in multiple polls. Without objection. The next one, Donald Trump's approval rating. New polls show shakeup over Iran bombing. Without objection, so ordered. The next one, Trump's approval rating drops to term low amid Israel Iran war.
▶ 1:47:13Without objection, so ordered. I hope you're not reading the same thing from your phone, which it looked like. Uh, I now recognize clarification. I now recognize Mr. Lynch from Massachusetts for 5 minutes. I just want to clarify. I can give you the sources because Mr. Lynch is recognized. Miss Crockett, you're rudely interrupting Mr. Lynch's five minutes. I've already said without objection, so order. Then there we go. And we'll be Mr. Lynch is recognized. Miss Crockett for five minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:47:42First of all, I want to be the first to congratulate my friend and colleague, the gentleman from California, Mr. Garcia, on becoming our new ranking member on the full committee on this committee oversight and government reform. I am sure he will enjoy not only my own support but the full support of all of our members and we will all work to help him in his new role. Uh in thank you thank you uh Mr.
▶ 1:48:10Veto uh in the past veterans benefits in this country have been separate and apart from everything else we do. uh they are different because uh veterans benefits for the time that I've been in in Congress over the last 25 years uh they're they're regarded as special um they because they are earned by courageous service to our nation uh previously rendered
▶ 1:48:40by a very narrow segment of our society and we as a nation both Democrat and Republican through through every president so far uh made a promise that if a young man or woman puts on that uniform for our country, serves our nation, and they come home from war with uh with the scars of that war, either invisible or visible, uh we made a promise that we will take care of them
▶ 1:49:11and their families. Uh, and that has happened for every every we've been proud that every administration has honored that promise until now. In January 20th, Trump laid off 6,000 employees at the VA. He even laid off the the workers at the in the middle of a suicide crisis among our returning veterans.
▶ 1:49:41It's an after that, Doge and Donald Trump have laid off uh 2,700 of those people that they laid off were veterans themselves. So now we're looking at a a 250,000 case backlog at the VA. So veterans are waiting longer and longer to get their care.
▶ 1:50:07uh you know, we still have World War II veterans, Korean War veterans, Vietnam veterans who are are older and and the delay in care to those veterans is a denial a denial of those benefits that they they are owed.
▶ 1:50:23Uh, I have a a UC Madame Chair uh request, unanimous consent request from ProPublica magazine, which uh the headline is internal VA emails reveal how Trump cuts have jeopardized veterans care, including that of life-saving cancer trials. Without objection, so ordered. Thank you.
▶ 1:50:46the the email itself, these are these are VA internal emails and uh it notes that uh this is between folks at the VA talking about the cuts. The email says that more than a thousand veterans will lose access to treatment for diseases ranging from metastatic head and neck cancer to kidney disease to traumatic traumatic brain injuries.
▶ 1:51:12And it goes on further uh and this is a quote from the internal emails that uh the enrollment in those clinical trials is stopping meaning that these veterans lose access to those therapies. Um Mr. Veto, can you talk about talk about that the delivery of of of services to our veterans? Thank you for the question.
▶ 1:51:36Um, unfortunately what we're seeing across the country is that veterans health care is being held up and interrupted because of the Doge cuts. Um, I and I think most of the panel agreed that that should never be the case uh when dealing with our service men and women. Um, they deserve at the very least quality and timely health care through the VA. Uh, but Doge has announced the goal of firing over 80,000 VA staffers.
▶ 1:52:01Um they've already lost 200 doctors, 1,700 nurses, and almost 900 advanced medical support assistants. In addition to some of the cuts to grants that funded various programs, including the suicide prevention hotlines, veterans are facing much longer backlogs and disrupted service. And in many instances, it can be life and death. How how important is it?
▶ 1:52:25Uh, you know, so we've got this hotline and and uh these veterans in many cases are isolated. They're isolated from their families, their communities. How important is that suicide hotline? Oh, it's of critical importance. Um, veterans are a population that are at heightened risk for suicide. Um, so making sure that they have all kinds of resources at their disposal is of the utmost importance. Thank you.
▶ 1:52:54Uh, Madam Chair, I I yield back. The gentleman's time has expired. Uh, I now recognize Mr. Jack from Georgia for 5 minutes. Thank you, Madam Chair. And first, I'd like to acknowledge our colleague, Mr. Lynch for his hard-fought campaign. And I'd like to at the same time spend a little bit of my time today uh working with Mr. Dickerson and Mr. Burton. First, Mr. Dickerson, I want to congratulate you and Epic for all that you've accomplished.
▶ 1:53:18I worked with both Paul and Zoe at the White House and the president's first term and commend uh you all for your work. Uh Mr. Burton, if you could, I was reading through your testimony. Would love for you just to walk this committee through the history of empowerment and recessions or recisions, I should say. Uh it started, as I understand, in Thomas Jefferson's administration. Would love for you to walk us through the history. The earliest empoundment that I know of is was uh by Thomas Jefferson.
▶ 1:53:46Uh the Congress appropriated money to build some gumbboats. Peace broke out and he chose not to build the gumbboats. So he in effect impounded the money and sent it back to to Congress. Uh that's been going on for a very long time. uh in older appropriations bills, particularly in the 19th century, generally read not to exceed X dollars. So, presidents often didn't because they didn't think you needed to spend that much money.
▶ 1:54:16And President Roosevelt uh impounded money and so did President Nixon. And at that point uh there was serious objection by the Congress uh and the empowerment control act was enacted which establishes an expedited procedure for recisions but based has very broad prohibitions on uh empoundment. Uh there are certain reprogramming permitted and things of that sort.
▶ 1:54:45Obviously, if the uh with as with improper payments, if you can't uh spend the money, that's fine. The president should do that. So, the recisions process, however, is somewhat cumbersome, as you probably just discovered. It could be streamlined and made better, but nonetheless, it that's the the general requirement today.
▶ 1:55:06And you know, one thing that stood out to me in your opening testimony and your testimony throughout this hearing is you mentioned the work that Speaker Gingrich and President Clinton undertook. Um, so in in your estimation, is our committee's work an extension of what was successfully done in the '9s to reign in spending? Yes and no. I mean, the effort in in the '90s was very broad. The Clinton administration was serious about uh improving government administration.
▶ 1:55:34uh they resisted some of what the Gingriage Congress w wanted to do, but ultimately there were serious very hard negotiations and they reached an agreement. President Clinton Clinton signed legislation that substantially reduced federal spending. Uh and there was tremendous amount of legislating going on throughout the Congress, not just in one committee, but committee by committee by committee by committee.
▶ 1:56:02Uh there was a a lot of legislating done, a lot of markups, a lot of investigations, a lot of hearings. It wasn't just one hearing like here. There was systematic throughout the Congress and in government in the executive branch. Thank you. Uh Mr. Dickerson, if we could uh spend a little bit of time in the remaining time we have left talking about improper payments.
▶ 1:56:24The first hearing our chairwoman convened was on uh the the troublesome improper payments we discovered over the last four years of the Biden administration. Would love for you to to touch on some of the challenges we face with respect to verifying identity with respect to payments that are going out the door. Um would love for you to comment on that. Absolutely. Improper payments is a huge issue. Uh in one program alone, Medicaid, for example, spent $1.1 trillion over the last decade on improper payments.
▶ 1:56:52And that is incredibly harmful because it's a waste of taxpayer money, but it's also funds that aren't going to people who are truly vulnerable and truly needy. Uh and so, uh this waste, fraud, and abuse is rampant throughout the federal government. Uh and so one of the major sources of that is the lack of ability to identify the the people who are claiming money and checks are going out the door to who are actually eligible.
▶ 1:57:16Uh, for example, the do not pay registry is supposed to be uh a database of of accounts that the federal government's not supposed to write checks to, but in many cases uh those checks go out the door and then they ping the registry. Uh, and in in many cases that registry doesn't have access to all the databases that it's supposed to. So, it's a huge problem and you really should be fixing it. And I I recall in our first hearing, we talked about uh the amount of payments going out the door that are still done by hand, not by computer or electronically.
▶ 1:57:45Is that something you all have uncovered in your work? Yeah, I think it's something that we should be using new technology, using AI to actually look at what we have across the government to to ensure that only people who are actually eligible for benefits are receiving it. Nobody else. Thank you, Madam Chair. And my closing, just a point of clarification. The poll behind you, behind our ranking member, it adds up to 110%. Just wanted to clarify, is it meant to add up to 110% or is that an error? Do you yield?
▶ 1:58:15Yeah, I do. Uh, this is from a Quinnipiac poll that was uh held two weeks ago and this is the data that was provided. There's a wealth of information including information about Donald Trump's falling poll numbers. So, you should take a look. Bet. Uh, the gentleman yields and it still adds up to 110%. That's a fake poll right there. I now recognize Mr. Subramanyam from Virginia for five minutes. Uh thank you Madam Chair.
▶ 1:58:45Um before I get started on Doge, uh Mr. Burton, you were one of the the co-authors of Project 2025. Is that correct? Yes. And um is this administration trying to implement project 2025? Yes or no? In some respects, yes. Okay. Because last year we kept hearing about how they wanted nothing to do with project 2025. That must have hurt your feelings, I bet. But uh are you saying that they're trying to implement all parts of project 2025? I just said in some respects, yes. Okay, thanks. I just wanted to get that out of the way.
▶ 1:59:15I'm glad there's someone being honest these days. Um, but let's talk about Doge. Um, so Doge promised us two trillion dollars in cuts back in January and, uh, so far we have a report card now out and it's actually cost us billions of dollars, maybe over a hundred billion dollars by one estimate. It's actually costing taxpayers money. it seems like, you know, they're cutting a lot of things.
▶ 1:59:44How is this possible? Well, the reason it's possible is because they're cutting the very people who are actually there to help get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. And they're cutting people who do essential research and run really important programs that save taxpayer money long term. And so the dashboard that we're talking about, the so-called transparency was riddled with errors. There's been article after article about this. And so we know now that that dashboard cannot be trusted.
▶ 2:00:13What can be trusted is that we're not anywhere close to $2 trillion. In fact, there's another bill that this house just passed that adds $3 trillion to the debt. And so even if they we did all these cuts, even if you cut every single federal employee in the entire government, you still end up with a situation where you're adding to the debt in this administration because of the $3 trillion in the bill that was passed a couple weeks ago that's being added to our debt.
▶ 2:00:38And um you know the examples that I've heard are things like cutting meteorologists at the weather service, cutting essential researchers at NIH, people who are doing groundbreaking research that will spur entire industries are being cut. Sometimes the government does research and funds research because the money just isn't there in the private sector. The private sector mandate isn't there.
▶ 2:01:02And so that actually you talk about the internet for instance that was a DoD project at one point and DoD funded ARPANET which became the internet and so we are basically we'll never know all of the things that we missed out on because of some of these cuts and I've heard a lot about you know we we've heard earlier about these cuts to veterans benefits there's POS inspectors nuclear scientists fired although they tried to rehire them there's been a lot of
▶ 2:01:32firings that where they try to roll them back. But, you know, I think I um you know, Miss Dvito, I just want to know if if you were to do this, is is Doge doing what they're trying to do here? And why is Doge so unsuccessful right now? Why has it been such a failure? Thank you. Um I believe that Doge has been a lose-lose. it has found it has failed to find the sizable savings as you mentioned and has only made life harder uh and more expensive for working families.
▶ 2:02:02Um you mentioned a lot of the mistakes those don't just cost um there is not just an opportunity cost to loss potential and loss impact from those mistakes but there um is also a cost to correct for them. So rehiring and retraining all of the federal workers that is Doge on track to save us money. Is it going to save taxpayers money long term? No. Why is that? Um, I think Doge has been making incredibly hasty cuts. Um, and these have consequences.
▶ 2:02:31There are already a lot of protections baked into our federal workforce, our system of regulations. We can always add more that protect people in even better and stronger ways, but we cannot take them back without costs. So, I' I'd ask Mr. Burton or Mr. Dickerson. Um, you know, one I had one idea for cuts, which is the president actually his last term spent 150 million plus dollars on golf trips. Do you think that's waste, fraud, and abuse? Yes.
▶ 2:03:02I certainly would think there are more high priority spending things. Yes. But do you think that's wasteful spending? Do you think we should cut? Do you think that's less or more wasteful than cutting veterans benefits, his golf trips? I I would rather spend money on veterans. What about $50 million for the Department of Homeland Security's private plane? That's what they requested in the appropriations bill. Do you think they should get a new plane for DHS, a private plane?
▶ 2:03:30That's a factual question on whether or not this So, I'm reclaim my time. In the end, what's happening is there's more waste, fraud, and abuse since Doge has come into effect. It's led to poor services, a brain drain on our federal government, and it's going to cost taxpayers money long term. I yield back. The gentleman time has expired. In closing, I want to thank our witnesses once again for their testimony today. I now yield to ranking member Stanbury for closing remarks.
▶ 2:04:02All right. Well, that's another Doge subcommittee in the books and another morning and a number of hours of our lives that we will never reclaim spent here doing more political theater with our friends across the aisle as the president is starting wars in the Middle East. And by the way, news just broke, cancelled the classified briefing that had been scheduled for Congress without a rescheduling.
▶ 2:04:29He's deploying United States troops against our people here in the homeland. And this Congress, controlled by these folks right over here, is trying to gut your health care, food programs, and steal your public lands while saddling the American people with trillions of dollars in debt to pay for tax breaks for billionaires. This is one of the most unpopular domestic and global policy agendas in modern history.
▶ 2:04:58and they're here trying to convince you all that we should make Doge permanent. But here's the thing. The GOP may continue to try to make Doge a thing. But no matter how hard they keep trying, GOP will never make Doge happen. Even with their Regina George out of the picture, that's Mr. Elon Musk in this scenario. Americans just aren't buying tickets to this show. And just like the movie business, House Republicans Doge reboot isn't hitting like they thought it would.
▶ 2:05:28And in fact, a majority of Americans actually oppose Doge cuts, a number that will only grow as the devastating and real life impacts continue to sink into everyday life for all of us. And I think we've all seen this film before and we didn't like it. The fact is Doge is costing taxpayers more than it is saving. And Donald Trump has spent more of your hard-earned taxpayer dollars in his first six months in office than any other president in modern history. That's right.
▶ 2:05:58He spent more money than the last president just in the last six months going golfing and doing other random things. While the Republicans are actually trying to increase federal spending in reconciliation with trillions of dollars in tax breaks and kickbacks to their donors. But despite this box office bomb, that's Doge.
▶ 2:06:19Here in this subcommittee, we're stuck on repeat watching the rerun over and over again as the GOP continues to roll out the same tired talking points that got Elon Musk fired in the first place. And not only that, we're seeing the same kinds of witnesses backed by the Heritage Foundation and their allied organizations coming to testify again and again attempting to back up a flailing administration and its flailing policies. So, where are we?
▶ 2:06:47In case you forgot, the Heritage Foundation is the same organization that brought you Project 2025, which is what this is actually all about. a show that was so unpopular that even the president and members of this committee tried to distance themselves from during the campaign season and even lied to the American people about. But the American people are smart and they're watching and they know what a scam is when they see it.
▶ 2:07:13You cannot run away from Project 2025 because it's right here and we will not let you destroy our government, our democracy, our institutions, and our freedoms. and we will hold you accountable. Medical trials ended, veterans benefits cut, social security decimated, thousands of children without food and medicine, thousands dead across the world, American lives upended. That is DOA's legacy.
▶ 2:07:40But it's clear, no matter the impact, the Trump administration and the GOP doesn't seem to care because Doge isn't actually about waste, fraud, and abuse. It's not even about costcutting or making the government more efficient. It's a means for pushing their political agenda on the American people.
▶ 2:08:04And if you couldn't tell already by their obsession with the culture wars, from attacking education to slashing global food aid to stripping health care, this is about remaking American society. They want to remake our country in a hyperconservative image just as they laid out in project 2025. The American people know what's going on and this is not the sequel we asked for.
▶ 2:08:32So I want to just take a note from America's real anti-hero and to say to Mr. Elon Musk, as far as we're concerned, you're just another picture to burn. and to Doge. Now we got problems and I don't think we can solve them. You made really deep cuts and baby now we're bad blood. I think we're out. I yel back. I now recognize myself for closing remarks.
▶ 2:09:03The American people gave President Trump a mandate to drain the swamp and they expect us to deliver on that promise. Our massively growing debt and interest threaten every single American, their children, and every generation to come. The United States is now 37 trillion dollar in debt. In fiscal year 2024, the government spent over 1.8 trillion, more than it took in.
▶ 2:09:28And in fiscal year 2025, the interest on our debt is expected to exceed 1 trillion, more than our military budget. We need to be brutally honest about how this massive debt came to be in the first place. It originated from Congress and elected presidential administrations for decades. We are grateful that President Trump's Doge team has already identified at least 180 billion in federal savings.
▶ 2:09:55However, without legislative action, these hard one cuts could be reversed by the stroke of a pen with a future administration. After all, we listen to Democrats every single day make fun of, attack, and criticize the efforts of Doge. They don't take it serious. They want government to be bigger and bigger and bigger until we completely collapse. Congress must use every tool at our disposal to make the hard work of the Trump administration permanent.
▶ 2:10:25Two weeks ago, House Republicans took the first step in codifying the Doge cuts by passing the White House's 9.4 4 billion recisions package. This is only the first step. The Senate must immediately pass these cuts and send them to President Trump's desk. We must continue to codify every penny of Doge cuts through recisions and the appropriations process. This is our mandate. This is our duty. The legislative branch can't sit on the sidelines.
▶ 2:10:56In this subcommittee, we will fight the war on waste shouldertosh shoulder with President Trump. We've held hearings exposing billions and improper payments, corrupt NOS's pushing destructive policies, and taxpayer funded media like NPR and PBS that serve elite interest over the public good.
▶ 2:11:15We've uncovered shocking examples like USAD funneling money to undermine US interest abroad, lavish spending on empty federal buildings, and so-called nonprofits bankrolling illegal immigration. Today we heard more egregious examples of Americans hard-earned tax dollars being abused to promote genital mutilation of children, fund the Green New Deal scam, fund terrorists overseas, and fund hundreds of billions of improper payments.
▶ 2:11:43The American people overwhelmingly support the cuts. And I don't know what faulty polls my Democrat colleagues are using to back their claims saying otherwise, but I've never heard of any legitimate poll that adds up to 110% like the one on their poster that was displayed here today. What a joke. What a pathetic example. My god.
▶ 2:12:09Maybe they should support spending a little more on teaching actual mathematics in the classrooms and a little less on seeking to advance racial justice and mathematics like the National Science Foundation grant. Regardless, we know the American people are behind the Doge efforts and we know the American people don't believe stupid fake polls that have math that make no sense. Exposing this waste and abuse is only half the battle.
▶ 2:12:38To win this war, we need to make sure these cuts aren't just temporary. That means passing laws to streamline agencies, eliminate redundant programs, and give the president the authority to fire bureaucrats who don't do their jobs. The same bureaucrats that go ahead and give out these grants that mutilate children, gives gives money to USA aid to do regime change in foreign countries, and so many more stupid, horrible things.
▶ 2:13:06that the American people don't want to spend their money on. Slashing waste, fraud, and abuse from the federal government provides real savings for the American people. We as lawmakers should pass new doge cuts every single day and make cutting waste, fraud, and abuse our top priority. Instead of growing the government, we should be slashing the government. The government is far too big. It's like an overgrown outofcontrol animal and the American people are beginning to hate it.
▶ 2:13:38With that and without objection, all members have five legislative days within which to submit materials and additional written questions for the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses. If there is no further business, without objection, the committee stands adjourned.