▶ 0:15:44subcommittee will come to order. Uh, I'll welcome all our members and I want to especially welcome Commissioner Social Security Frank Bizinano. Um, I'd also like to thank the chairman of the work and welfare subcommittee, my colleague Darren Le Hood, and a ranking member of our two subcommittees, Mr. John Larson and Mr. Danny Davis, as well as our full committee chairman, Jason Smith and Mr. Neil, our full uh committee ranking member.
▶ 0:16:10Today marks a first both for me and the commissioner as he was recently confirmed and is making his first appearance in the committee room. Today's my first hearing as chair of the Social Security However, neither of us is new or naive about the successes and challenges of the Social Security Administration faces and and and I want to make sure that as we talk through what we do moving forward that we address uh all of these I I look forward to working closely with the commissioner to improve customer service, root
▶ 0:16:40out waste, fraud, and abuse and strengthen the program for current, near, and future beneficiaries. Today, it seems like a lot of politicians look for viral moments and quick sound bites uh to appeal to their bases. And this can be particularly true when it comes to talking about social security, which can easily be demagogued for cheap political gains.
▶ 0:16:59However, I think it's safe to say that every member on this dis, whether Republican or Democrat, is concerned about this important program and wants to make sure that it remains available for those hardworking Americans and their families who have earned a right to its benefits. My Republican colleagues and I along with President Trump are committed to protecting Social Security and providing economic security to current and future beneficiaries. But in order to keep our commitments to our seniors, disabled workers, and their families, we need to have an honest dialogue with both the American people and amongst ourselves.
▶ 0:17:30Last week's trustees report reaffirmed what we've known for some time now. Without congressional action, Social Security's retirement trust fund will be exhausted in just over seven years, which would result in equivalent of a 23% acrosstheboard benefit cut. These programs are too important to demagogue. As a chairman of the Social Security subcommittee, I will commit commit to maintain an honest dialogue about these vital programs and I invite all of my colleagues to do the same.
▶ 0:17:58Keeping our commitments in includes ensuring that Americans have reliable access to the services provided by the Social Security Administration. Which brings us to the topic of today's hearing on improving and modernizing the Social Security Administration and why I'm pleased to welcome the recently confirmed Commissioner Social Security Frank I have been in Congress for eight years and I've placed a high priority on constituent services in my home district.
▶ 0:18:22The men and women who are constituent services representatives in my office have helped countless canons navigate the complexities of the Social Security Administration. And while I'm grateful for their work, it shouldn't take a call from a congressman's office to simply get the benefits someone deserves. Commissioner, it's evident that you and President Trump share my concern. Uh there's still room for improvement, but the average speed of uh answer on the 800 number hit a high of 42 minutes in November of 2023.
▶ 0:18:51It was 16.7 minutes in April of 2025. The average wait time in field offices has decreased by 8 minutes since the start of the fiscal year, and pending disability claims have dropped below 1 million after topping 1.2 million in the summer of 2024. Again, these are improvements, but we can and should do more to make the processes more efficient for beneficiaries. I look forward to a robust discussion today with my colleagues and the commissioner. I will now yield to the ranking member, Mr.
▶ 0:19:20Yolarsen, for his opening statement. I thank the chairman and I certainly welcome the commissioner and I thank commissioner for taking the time to meet with myself and Mr. Neil uh as we discussed in meeting in my office uh again which I thank you for the courtesy and noting that you're from a family of 15 and I'm from a family of eight.
▶ 0:19:48I know that there's compassion that exists in that heart of yours uh for the nation's number one anti- poverty program for the elderly and the number one anti-poverty program for children till the child tax cut becomes Democrats uh have a plan. We've had some one for some time. Our focus is twofold.
▶ 0:20:21There's an immediate urgency as it deals with Doge and their access to the public's personal data, their medical data, their financial data, the concerns about their family. We discussed this when you came to my office.
▶ 0:20:44Our concerns remain deep and abiding and as I said, Democrats have a plan. Because of the Supreme Court decision, it looks like legislation is required.
▶ 0:21:00though the commissioner could deny them access to these uh as uh Peter Finley Dun would say trust everyone but cut the cards and legislation is needed so that we can make sure that we protect people's personal data and information that is so vital and important to them.
▶ 0:21:27Our overarching plan is to recognize and we discussed this that social security hasn't been enhanced in over 50 years. Pretty astounding when you think of it. But u imagine Richard Nixon was president of the United States the last time there was an overall enhancement of social security.
▶ 0:21:53And when you couple that with unqualified, unvetted, unapproved 24 year old doses who have unfettered access to people's records at Social it creates an alarm. When I do district hearings or travel around the country, people are outraged by that. That's why we have a bill to stop it. We hope to get a hearing on it, Mr.
▶ 0:22:23chairman in a vote and of course I will ask for your support commissioner. I also think that uh it's become to the American people that we are in the midst of and appearing right before our eyes the privatization of social security. We have put forward a plan.
▶ 0:22:53The plan is very specific and direct. We see no plan. We've had no hearing uh from our colleagues on the other 5 million Americans get below poverty level checks. 70 million Americans rely on Social Security.
▶ 0:23:13for 40% of all Americans this is the only thing the only pension benefit that they'll have and we have done nothing that is shameful and I think everybody as the chairman pointed out on this dis agrees with that an action needs to be taken a vote needs to be taken and most importantly the constituents that were sworn to serve
▶ 0:23:44need relief. This is not the first time that there's been an attempt to privatize Social Security. Was done by Reagan, Bush Senior, Bush Jr., and now And when you're closing regional offices, when you're shutting down phone this is a prelude to what's happening to dismantle social security from
▶ 0:24:16take away from the brand of an agency that operates the largest insurance program with under 1% administrative costs and serves more than 70 million I see I'm being gled because you can't get all of this in within five minutes. And it's why we need hearings.
▶ 0:24:44And what a joke that we can't speak more than five minutes, Mr. Chairman, on an issue as important as this is. Thank you for Thank you for your comments. Your time's expired. And and before I pass a call on the uh the next speaker, I just want to uh remind everybody uh that you know effective the start of this year uh Congress has put in effect the uh Social Security Fairness Act which actually uh increased benefits for uh weapon GPO recipients.
▶ 0:25:15So I I know there's some benefits increase that a lot of people including people in my district that were benefited from. Will the gentleman yield? Thank you, Mr. Larson. I want to go through opening statements, please. U was it paid for? I'd now recognize the chairman from Illinois, working welfare subcommittee chair Darren Hood for his opening statement. Well, thank you uh chairman Estes for having this hearing today and commissioner. Welcome.
▶ 0:25:38Uh congratulations on your Senate confirmation and thank you for your uh service before taking this position particularly in the private sector and the work that you've done on efficiency and effectiveness and making entities that you've been a part of accountable. those skills and your background and experience is going to be tremendously beneficial to the Social Security Administration and to the country.
▶ 0:26:00So, we thank you and I look forward to hearing from you on your plans for refocusing the Social Security Administration on its customer service mission. It is critical that we work together to ensure young people, seniors, disabled individuals, and their families that depend on your agency get the services they need in a timely and accurate manner.
▶ 0:26:20Under the Biden administration's mismanagement, the Social Security Administration hit record high wait times for both phones and initial Social Security and supplemental uh security income disability decisions. In addition, Biden's executive overreach went to a level we haven't seen before with the agency publishing four rules making changes to SSI eligibility estimated to cost taxpayers $40 billion, all without congressional approval.
▶ 0:26:50As chairman of the work and welfare subcommittee, I have a particular interest in your plans that would potentially impact the SSI program and the individuals it serves. Although disability insurance and SSI are designed to support individuals who cannot perform substantial work due to their disabling medical condition, the two programs allow individuals to work and work and earn within certain limits.
▶ 0:27:15Certainly, for those who have a disability or condition that improves over time, we should be putting barriers, we should not be putting barriers in the way of them returning to work. Both DI and SSI include complex incentives intended to encourage individuals to return to work, to earn wages, and cease receiving government benefits. But all the evidence suggests they aren't effective or currently working.
▶ 0:27:41For example, the Ticket to Work program established in 1999 allows eligible DI and SSI beneficiaries to voluntarily obtain free employment services or other support services from approved providers to achieve specific work goals.
▶ 0:27:57However, the most recent data showed of the nearly 12.3 million eligible beneficiaries in 2023, only or 2.5% were participating in the Ticket to Work program. Evaluations of the program found participants are only slightly more likely to find employment and program costs exceeded the savings in disability benefits to the SSA.
▶ 0:28:25One of the principles we've established at the work and welfare subcommittee is to promote the dignity of work for everyone. All of our government programs need to be oriented to provide every opportunity for individuals to reach their full capacity.
▶ 0:28:38I hope that we can work together and with you to find ways to improve outcomes for disabled individuals receiving SSI who want to maintain or renew a connection to work by identifying government imposed Specifically, I am interested in modernizing the Ticket to Work program and other outdated return to work demonstrations at the SSA. A second topic I want to bring up is related to the child welfare program.
▶ 0:29:05Earlier this month, the subcommittee had a hearing on ways to support older youth who are transitioning out of foster care into adulthood. Approximately 27,000 children in foster care receive SSI or survivor benefits with an average benefit amount of 800 to 1,100 per month. These are some of the most vulnerable children in our country and SSA benefits are a critical lifeline for them.
▶ 0:29:32State child welfare agencies act as a representative payes on behalf of youth in foster care and there have been questions about how funds are used as well as the ability to track foster children moving from placement to placement. In 2018, Congress passed a bipartisan law that established SSA uh to to that required SSA to establish data exchanges with state child welfare agencies to improve accountability.
▶ 0:30:00However, a subsequent GAO report found some states face challenges implementing or maintaining data exchanges and not all states were participating. Last October, I sent a letter to GAO with ranking member Davis requesting an update on how m how many states are participating in data exchanges and how the SSA monitors representative payes.
▶ 0:30:21I look forward to working with you and your team to ensure those data exchanges are up and running and to ensure we bring transparency to this issue. Again, Commissioner, um, thank you for u stepping up to take on this job. We're eager to work with you as a new pair of eyes uh to get the SSA back on track and I look forward to your testimony and I yield back. Thank you, Chairman Lehood.
▶ 0:30:47Uh, I now recognize the gentleman for Illinois Work and Welfare Subcommittee, Ranking Member Davis, for his opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulations, Commissioner. It's a pleasure to have you with us today, and I look forward to working closely with I thank you for being here.
▶ 0:31:07The benefits overseen by the Social Security Administration are lifegiving for millions of seniors, children, and people with disabilities and serious illnesses. Social Security provides dignity and independence for seniors.
▶ 0:31:25It provides a future for children whose parents die young and basic essentials for people who can't work anymore because of illnesses or Your position comes with a profound to serve every American and do no harm.
▶ 0:31:45And Social Security's partner, Supplemental Security Income, or SSI, works with Social Security, to bolster income for our poor seniors, help families care for children with serious illnesses like cickle cell disease, and provides for adults who can't work because of severe illnesses and intellectual or physical disabilities.
▶ 0:32:13In my congressional district, more than 1/4th of Social Security recipients have their benefits supplemented by SSI, and nearly 10,000 children rely on Social Security or SSI.
▶ 0:32:30Despite the essential role that Social Security plays in protecting Americans, Republicans have repeatedly tried to cut Social Security benefits, raise the retirement age, rip benefits away from sick and disabled children, and privatize Social Security.
▶ 0:32:52All steps to undermine beneficiaries It has been my honor to fight to protect Social Security benefits for my constituents and to join with my Democratic colleagues to defend them for every American.
▶ 0:33:12President Trump promised Americans that he would not cut Social Security, but one of his first acts was to allow inexperienced and aggressive DOE staffers to hack into SSA's most confidential beneficiary data, cut thousands of experienced staff, and disrupt customer service so much that seniors and those close to retirement age are justifiably
▶ 0:33:43worried that they will not receive the benefits they've worked for all their lives. I strongly support your stated goal to restore SSA customer service while also preventing fraud and errors. And I want to give you some advice. Learn from Dove's mistakes. First, take the time to ask questions and listen to the answers.
▶ 0:34:10You're not necessarily the expert on social security yet. One of the best fraud prevention tools you have is a skilled workforce. Firing experienced staff means no one is there to manage the contractors, spot fraud, and prevent errors.
▶ 0:34:31I was shocked that the budget proposal only sought increases in technology rather than recognizing the importance of your staff at the height of baby boomer requirement. Second, technology is a tool not a magic wand. If staff are not trained to use it, beneficiaries can't access it or don't understand it.
▶ 0:34:55If the agency computers won't run it, technology will not improve service, fight fraud, strengthen the SA worker force, or modernize SSA. Elevating technology as an elixir reminds me of the HL min quote, there's always a solution to every problem, neat, plausible, and Further forcing seniors of people who are sick, struggling,
▶ 0:35:25or dealing with physical and mental impairments to navigate an obstacle course of complicated rules and technology without help is a cruel backdoor benefit cut. Commissioner, you've been entrusted with one of the crown jewels of the federal government that protects tens of millions of Americans. I hope and I know that we can work together to keep it strong for current beneficiaries and future generations.
▶ 0:35:56Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member Davis. I now recognize the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Mr. Smith, for his opening statement. Thank you, Chairman Estus. Um it's a great great ring there. um pleased to have you as our new um social security chairman.
▶ 0:36:17Um your leadership has proven in this committee um that we can accomplish some great things and I think you're going to do it in social security. Um I want to thank Chairman Estus and Chairman Leah Hood for hosting this joint subcommittee hearing. Um and I want to thank you commissioner for appearing before us today.
▶ 0:36:40We we already are seeing improvements at the Social Security Administration under President Trump um compared to how little Democrat leadership accomplished at the agency in the prior administration.
▶ 0:36:56Under the Biden administration, the SSA hit record high wait times for both phone service and initial disability But under the Trump administration, phone wait times are improving and the initial disability backlog has less than 1 million pending claims for the first time since 2023.
▶ 0:37:22That's because Republicans are focus focusing on direct frontline service Now the SSA is serving more Americans better and with fewer processing faster than the prior administration with less employees. Imagine that efficiency.
▶ 0:37:44And they have done it by stopping wasteful spending and redirecting resources and personnel from administrative headquarters and instead out to operations in the field in order to better service beneficiaries directly. Democrats were in deep denial over how their policies led to terrible price increases that deeply hurt especially seniors.
▶ 0:38:11They said it was They said it was the war in Ukraine. They said it was price gouging. It was the fault of everyone but the Democrats in power. And so their denial even resulted in claiming credit for an automatic cost of living adjustment.
▶ 0:38:32But that adjustment wound up pushing seniors into higher tax brackets, resulting in having to pay taxes on benefits they'd never had to pay before. So once again, Republicans are cleaning up that mess. President Trump promised tax relief for seniors. And under the one big beautiful bill, Republicans deliver.
▶ 0:38:55In fact, we go further than many Americans expected by offsetting the tax liability of seniors with an additional $4,000 guaranteed deduction for Americans over the age of 65 for an even wider range of income without even limiting limiting it to social security. Democrats are going to use this hearing for political theater the way they always do when Social Security comes up.
▶ 0:39:26Lately, they've taken swipes at Doge and Common Sense steps to reduce waste, to streamline and automate processes and combat fraud under the new administration. Why would anyone object to these changes? As a result of these common sense steps, the SSA is already doing better than under Biden and leveraging automation to process cases faster and more reliably.
▶ 0:39:57Just as the millions of seniors who had been affected by the WE and GO and who are now receiving increased payments as a result of the SSA's use of automation to implement the Social Security Fairness Act instead of processing each case manually. That hasn't discouraged Democrats from spreading disinformation.
▶ 0:40:22Despite Democrats claims, Doge hasn't had improper access to sensitive senior information. Just ask the Supreme Court, who affirmed the SSA Doge team's ability to carry out its work of improving the SSA systems. I wish they would instead work with Republicans to find real solutions that will deliver for the seniors who suffered so terribly under their one party control of Washington.
▶ 0:40:52I wish they would vote to provide tax relief for seniors, but so far they have refused to do so. Republicans will continue to fight for our seniors all the same. I yield back. Thank you, Chairman Smith. And now I recognize ranking member of the Ways and Means Committee, Mr. Neil, for his opening statement. Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chairman. And I want to welcome the commissioner here. We had a good meeting.
▶ 0:41:21I thought conversation was free and flowing. But I want to remind all on the 90th anniversary of Social Security that Social Security remains a promise. It's an essential commitment to the American people earned with every paycheck and promised to those who work hard and play by the rules.
▶ 0:41:42The cruelty of what was done by Doge to long-term 30 and 40year employees of Social Security, the that was inflicted upon their lives after having done their jobs with great duty and loyalty was uncalled for.
▶ 0:42:02The chaos that came of it caused many people to begin to draw down the benefit at 62 because they were afraid once again that it was going to go away. Social Security's at an inflection It certainly is being challenged as experienced staff were being forced out closing essential offices around the country.
▶ 0:42:26And then when you look at the evidence as to how this was done after the harm that was done to individuals and then backing away and making so few changes because they saw the efficiency and effectiveness of social security and its promise. unelected individuals, unqualified individuals given free reign to rifle through the sensitive personal information of millions of current and future Social Security beneficiaries.
▶ 0:42:58Let me correct the record on one very important point. Social Security is not going to see the trust fund exhausted in seven years. it will still pay 80% of benefits it's currently constructed, which is now the obligation of this to fix the program as we all know in the end we're going to try to do rather than suggesting that people should be fearful that their social security benefit
▶ 0:43:29was going to be compromised. 62 year olds have begun to draw the benefit for simple reasons just as they did at the pandemic. When the pandemic settled in, people came to believe that they might not go back to work again after having been laid off. And they began to draw down the benefit. So, Social Security, as I said, will pay 80% of benefits. That is a promise that the actuaries of Social Security have signed on to.
▶ 0:43:59Social Security continues to work for the American people. Even with an increase in the number of people claiming their benefits and fewer experienced staffers to assist, we're hearing stories of drop calls, longer hold times, and other delays. And the risk of late or even mispayments will increase. The real answer for this chaos is clear, and the goal should not be privatization of the Social Security trust fund as President George W.
▶ 0:44:26Bush tried to implement and the chairman of this committee at that time was ready to go along with until we stopped it. Can we all agree in this room today there is nobody 150 years old receiving a social security check. Let me qualify that there's nobody 120 years old receiving one either. That's an important consideration.
▶ 0:44:48And can we further that by suggesting today I hope there isn't anybody on this dis who would suggest that social security is a Ponzi scheme. It is an earned benefit promised to American workers. But it's the same old story. Let's question the effectiveness of social security so we might make dramatic changes to it. The old rinse and repeat of the same game plan. Launch an attack.
▶ 0:45:16make the system less effective, more difficult to navigate, and then try to turn it over to Wall Street. Can you imagine if that had been successful turning the trust fund over to Wall Street in 2008 where we'd be today? That you got an enormous responsibility, and we want you along with all of us to understand just how vital this program is for the American people.
▶ 0:45:43We cannot rubber stamp the proposals that are being suggested by Doge and others. And we can't have 24 year olds sorting and sifting through Social Security records. Our jobs are to defend and expand Social Security for beneficiaries and generations to come. Just as Mr. Roosevelt promised when he suggested Social Security was to guard against quote the vicissitudes of life. 90 years old. Happy birthday, Social Security.
▶ 0:46:14And with that, let me yield back the balance of my time. Well, thank you, Mr. Neil. Uh, today's sole witness is Commissioner Social Security, Frank Bizinano. Thank you for joining us today. Uh, your written statement will be made part of the hearing record, and you have five minutes to deliver your oral remarks. Chairman Smith, Estes, and La Hood, ranking members Neil Larson and Davis, and members of the subcommittees.
▶ 0:46:43I am Frank Bzigno, and it's my honor to serve as the 18th Senate Confirmed Commissioner of the Social Security Administration. Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today about my plan to ensure that Social Security provides secure, accurate, and timely service to all Americans. Social Security is a cornerstone of American life.
▶ 0:47:07For nearly 90 years, it has protected our families, providing essential income to retirees, people with disabilities, and survivors of loved ones. Over 88% of seniors who are 65 or older receive social security benefits. With over $1.5 trillion dollars paid to more than 72 million beneficiaries annually, Social Security must evolve to meet the needs of the 21st century.
▶ 0:47:37The agency has faced many challenges in providing service to the American public, including processing backlogs, system outages, and unacceptable phone service. As commissioner, I am committed to significantly improving service quality and streamlining operations at the agency. My vision for Social Security is clear, putting the customer first.
▶ 0:48:06This will be driven by a technology agenda while continuing to meet our customers where they want to be met, whether online, on the phone, or in field offices. This will allow us to deliver at the highest possible level for the American people. Throughout my career, I have led transformational changes in the financial and technology sectors, leading institutions through both good and challenging times.
▶ 0:48:36We're in a time of transformation and have begun the journey to achieve a higher level of service and drive innovation. In this case, these transformational changes will be an operational I have a great understanding of what it takes leadership, urgency, and attention to every detail. I will ensure we bring that same focus and determination to Social Security.
▶ 0:49:07Under my leadership, we have begun and will continue to improve customer service, increase employee fight fraud, waste, and abuse, and optimize and empower our workforce. For years, we have scheduled downtime on our website, which equals 18% of the total hours in a week. That's totally unacceptable for serving the public.
▶ 0:49:38That will change in the next two months through technology enhancements. We also implemented the Social Security Fairness Act five months ahead of schedule. We've processed fundamentally all of these claims. That's the type of performance you should expect from our agency. We are focused on meeting people where they want to be met, offering service how and where they prefer it.
▶ 0:50:09Our fiscal 2026 funding request allows us to invest in our technology strategy to provide customers with digital and automated options as they experience regularly in their daily lives. I've heard from some that our performance is not acceptable and we need to hire more staff to improve.
▶ 0:50:34I do agree, we must perform significantly better, but increased staffing is not the long-term solution. Case in point, despite lower staffing levels during May and June, we outperformed January in all I know how hard federal employees work and how dedicated they are to serving the American people.
▶ 0:51:04My own father was a career Treasury employee and who is the hardest working person I've ever known. Our staff touches the lives of most Americans and we want our employees to be highly engaged and have the best set of tools available.
▶ 0:51:22Is my personal goal to have a highly motivated workforce and change the last three years of rankings which put social security last in employee engagement among the 18 largest federal agencies. In conclusion, I am truly grateful for the opportunity to serve and lead the hardworking men and women of the Social Security Administration.
▶ 0:51:50I am committed to delivering the best outcomes for our beneficiaries and their families. We will transform the agency into a model of operational excellence and uphold President Trump's promise to protect and strengthen Social Security.
▶ 0:52:08I understand America is counting on us and I am committed to building a Social Security administration that delivers, that listens, and that is ready for the future. Thank you again for holding this hearing. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you for your testimony. We'll now proceed to the question and answer session and I'll start with myself.
▶ 0:52:34Now, Commissioner Biz Bisinano, uh, Social Security's entrusted with some of the most personal data of virtually every American. There's been a lot of reporting and speculation about inappropriate access of personal data by Doge and and others, which have caused my constituents concerned about whether their personal data is being protected at the Social Security Administration. What can you tell me about the protections are in place at SSA? And what can you tell my constituents about how you're handling that data that they have entrusted to you as head of the SSA?
▶ 0:53:04Is their data safe? Our data is safe. Um, Social Security has always had a high level of security over PII. And I've overviewed it. I'd like to say I spent my career protecting PII and the largest financial institutions. And so we have very strong protocols on access to it and very tight security around it.
▶ 0:53:32I feel very very comfortable that our PII is protected well. Well, thank you very much because people are concerned about their personal identification and personal identified information or PII and and uh appreciate your response and oversight for that. Uh since the start of the administration, there have been uh reports of field office closures and other unverifiable claims that the SSA is purposely closing offices customers need to be able to access. Can you set the record straight today?
▶ 0:54:00Have any field offices closed since the beginning of the Trump Um, I think factually, uh, there was one field office that was moved because of problem, uh, with a landlord and, um, there were 21 conference hearing rooms that were handed back to GSA because we do virtual conferences
▶ 0:54:31uh, in in our disability hearings. ings and they hadn't been used in 2 years. There were not field office closures. There were no and field offices will remain forever. It's a way many people want to come see us and we're going to be there. You know, not everybody has broadband. Not everybody has the technology required although, you know, over 90% of of uh our constituencers does, but field officers will be here forever.
▶ 0:55:02Great. Thank you for that. Um, the SSA Office of the Inspector General recently completed an audit of the failed Next Generation Talifan project or NGTP where they found that the SSA spent more than $160 million to build a new phone system that was only used for 10 months before being abandoned.
▶ 0:55:23Not only did that failed investment lead to a waste of tens of millions of dollars uh from the taxpayers, but it also resulted in worse service than the old system it was intended to replace when it was in use. What lessons has SSA learned from this failed contract? Well, um, every once a week, uh, I meet, uh, and our chief financial officer and a couple other members, our head of budget, uh, on any procurement that we're going to make for more than $250,000.
▶ 0:55:55And uh, a lot of times those people have to go back because they haven't been thought through well enough. We're building a discipline in the agency of every dollar matters and uh a contract of that size and scale uh should never have that problem uh because it needs to be owned at the top and we're trying to set a tone at the top about we're going to pay attention to every detail.
▶ 0:56:20We're going to get it right uh and we're going to we're going to deliver in every aspect of the business, sir. Well, thank you. Yeah, as as you pointed out, good contract management and good vendor management is so important in having successful uh uh contracts and and arrangements. Um I just want to highlight that this is a Republican and a Democrat bipartisan concern about the topic. So as you continue to work with OIG and Congress to to help prevent future contracting mismanagements and Yeah.
▶ 0:56:49I I would say we've also implemented um another uh thing that we've never done before which is to meet regularly with OIG on their recommendations, reconcile where we are on those recommendations and making sure that we're in complete agreement. We actually learned in the process of going through all of OIG's that uh in their last report there's probably a hundred items that we're still going back and forth on.
▶ 0:57:17Uh so having a good relationship uh with the IG is very important and us working hand in hand and that those things have never been done before. Great. Thank you. Um before I recognize uh Mr. Neil for his questions, I I want to provide another example of how your emphasis on expanding online service and providing common sense solution is resulting in real improvements to service.
▶ 0:57:41Uh, without objection, I'd like to enter into the record a letter from the National Organization of Social Security Claimants Representatives that recounts how a new online secure portal that provides claimants and their representatives with basic data on the status of their claims, which has likely reduced calls from claimment representatives to the SSA by more than 30 30,000 per month. Uh, that's 30,000 more calls from our constituents that can now be answered because of this solution. Without objection, I'll enter this into the record.
▶ 0:58:11And now I'd like to uh recognize the ranking member of the Ways and Means Committee, Mr. Neil, for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for doing that. Uh, Commissioner, the wealthiest man in the world has called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. Do you agree with that Um, I think you said it was a promise to pay. I think I heard you say that earlier, sir. Uh I agree it's a promise to pay. Thank you.
▶ 0:58:41Uh let me also turn my focus to Doge again for a moment. Some of those at Doge have said that in the there are those who are 120 years old receiving social security checks. Do you know of anybody 120 years old that has received a social security check?
▶ 0:59:04What I do know is that uh we had um people who had passed away still active on our file and I think that represents the opportunity for problem and error and I think that uh you know having people on the file can cause it's like leaving your door open, right? We don't leave our door open at night.
▶ 0:59:33U I hope. I mean, maybe just because I grew up in Brooklyn, we don't leave our door open. Uh whereas Nikki, I don't want to insult her uh at all. Um but you know, she's on San Island, though. Um I'm allowed to I'm allowed to joke around here, aren't I? Yes. Um Okay. Thank you, sir. Um so I think I think that's a real issue. Okay. That that's a real issue, sir. But is that's different than suggesting that there's somebody 120 years old receiving a social security check, isn't it?
▶ 1:00:04Uh I I mean I made my statement, sir, that you know there were millions of people on the file that had passed and their number was still alive. Commissioner, that's an earlier statement by a member on the committee said that the Democrats were going to try to politicize the issue. What's more politicizing than suggesting there's somebody 120 years old getting a social security check? when it's not true. There's nothing to it.
▶ 1:00:28There's no evidence that supports The efficiency of Social Security, the error ratio of Social Security ought to be one that is acknowledged. It ought to be a model for other federal The loyalty that the employees feel to making sure that our seniors are able to receive an earned benefit which they paid into all their lives should be a very important part of the discussion.
▶ 1:00:54Could I ask you as well, Commissioner, how many staffers from Doge are currently working at Social Security? First, I'd like to um react to, you know, um a fundamentally a hair less than 1% error rate and I hear us talk about um it's one, you know, that that's too high an error rate, sir. Yeah, granted, it's too high an error rate.
▶ 1:01:19And then secondarily, we would never compare and we should never compare the amount of payout to the expense of the department. That's not a relevant measure commission by any means. So I I I just want to be clear about that. I understand that.
▶ 1:01:36But commissioner, again, then we go back to the argument that was heard on the House floor during the State of the Union address that there were 150 year olds receiving social security checks and then it was brought down to 120 year olds receiving social security checks. My argument is that overwhelmingly this is one of the most wellsupported that the American people have come to rely upon and depend upon.
▶ 1:02:03So, could we go back to the question of how many do staffers are working currently at your office? Uh, I treat everybody like they work in SSA in all honesty. Uh, I run the um administration here and uh I have complete oversight.
▶ 1:02:21you know, we have 7,000 contractors that do not work for SSA in the organization working and uh I actually have a uh Could we get an idea of how many Doge employees are on the payroll? Uh I don't I I don't think of people as Doge employees, but if you're saying how many, it's probably about three or four. Three or four, but there's no such thing as Doge employees. Okay.
▶ 1:02:48Do they have access to any of this sensitive critical No sir. That they might be able to retrieve? No sir. Let me ask the last question here and that is uh the meeting that you and I had I thought went really well. Me too. And we are committed on this side of the aisle to defending and increasing social security benefits as the years go forward.
▶ 1:03:17People are going to live longer and they're going to need enhanced benefits as we proceed and part of it is going to come from the discussions that we're going to have here and we all know in the end what part of the solution is going to be on this committee. So I thank you commissioner. I yield back my time Mr. Chairman. Thank you. And now I'd like to call on chairman of ways and means committee Mr. Smith for questions. Thank you. Thank you chairman.
▶ 1:03:43Um, the SSA is way behind private industry in modernizing its online services and I'm glad to hear that you intend to expand and improve the online services that the SSA will offer. However, for many, including those from rural rural areas, phone and in-person services remain vital lifelines.
▶ 1:04:11Um, Commissioner, what will you do to ensure that seniors and other individuals from rural parts of the country, many of whom lack access to fast, reliable or secure internet access, are not left behind when the SSA modernizes.
▶ 1:04:30Well, I think you know I I I believe in omni channel and omni channel in this case is physical the field office uh the phone and the web and we have to have all three. Uh and I think you know um the field office is mission critical for some number of people to come in and do their transactions.
▶ 1:04:56Uh, and our intent is that that field office will remain and will be there servicing the public as it does today. Um, I think we can bring better tools. I've I've been to uh I've been to, you know, seven I've I try to get out a couple times a week to where the work actually occurs. Um, and you know, I probably been to seven different sites in in my uh you know, month and change here.
▶ 1:05:25Uh and you know what's very clear to me is even the people in the field office can have a much better experience by us bringing better technology to our field office reps to help them to be able to accumulate data, bring it together and use a little intelligence behind it to make it easier for our people. People have to go to multiple systems. Um I think our weight times on average are good in the field offices. I think we could even be better.
▶ 1:05:56Last Congress, we enacted the the Social Security Fairness Act that repealed Social Security's windfall elimination provision and the government pension offset, ensuring America's seniors receive the benefits they are owed is dependent on implementing this law as quickly and orderly as possible.
▶ 1:06:16I'm encouraged by the progress your agency has already made in processing retroactive payments to the roughly 3 million affected beneficiaries and updating monthly benefits moving forward. A sharp contrast from the Biden administration's claims that the transition would take upwards of a year. That is what they shared with me.
▶ 1:06:44what is the status of that effort and what percentage of back payments have already been sent now? And what if any further guidance or collaboration do you need from this committee to ensure the proper and swift implementation of this law? Yeah, as of this morning, this is a number I track every day. I track a lot of numbers every day. Um, we've uh done 99.9%.
▶ 1:07:11We have 3,100 more payments to get out the door. That's it. 3,100. Uh I thought it was very important to demonstrate that we can act with urgency. Uh we did this without delaying any other work in the agency. Uh we got together, we talked about it. It was multiple meetings. We applied technology to move it forward in a manner better than we thought. Um and I think it's what you should expect from us.
▶ 1:07:40I think what you should expect from us and um you know uh by 6:30 it's completely done and that was the target that we set you know at at the beginning of June when we thought it was going to take us out to 111. Um I believe in Parkinson's law work expands to the day and uh you know we do have a lot of good people who respond to to the ask to figure out how to get stuff done better faster and cheaper. Commissioner, you're a breath of fresh air.
▶ 1:08:11We're we're thankful that you're in the position that you're in and I look forward to continuing to work with you to better serve this country. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Chamber. I now recognize Ranking Member Larson for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you again, Commissioner. And like Mr. Neil, I I thought we had a good meeting. And again, I thank you for the courtesy that you extended.
▶ 1:08:36You're in stark to well, we had to issue uh an inquiry to have Elon Musk appear before us, but he never did. And ultimately, our colleagues on the other side of the aisle voted against having any such inquiries made.
▶ 1:09:02And of course it was Elon Musk that hires Doge and everyone wonders why there are questions. Do you think Doge should be come before this committee explain what they're doing? Mr. Chief Commissioner, I'm here before you explain what I'm doing and ask about those. Should they come? I that's not I I don't really think that's my job.
▶ 1:09:26I I I mean if I look at my job not to tell you who to have in front of your committ that's that's that's you know it stands in stark contrast and we talk about as uh Peter Finley Dunn would say trust everyone but cut the cards and uh we need to make sure that we have hearings and people come before us and are able to answer questions. This is the first show up whenever.
▶ 1:09:56This is the first one that we've that we've had and a lot has transpired. Congratulations on the things that you're doing and uh as a matter of fact, Commissioner Ali was doing a lot of them and uh some would argue that you know the metrics were taken down. I don't know the reason why they were taken down, but some say it's because some of being cherrypicked.
▶ 1:10:19But shouldn't there be question should there be a hearing to the where both people get to decide or there's questions that can be asked of both? Listen, um, we had a million. Listen, you're a decent person and bright and intelligent, caring person.
▶ 1:10:41And I I but I say that only because of the points that are being made up here in terms of sparring and going uh back and forth. At the end of the day, here's my concern. It's great that we're making technological advances. It's great that we have an unbelievable opportunity with artificial But at the end of the day, it's not about algorithms.
▶ 1:11:10It's about And nowhere are we answering the fact that 5 million fellow Americans get below poverty level after having paid into the system all their life. Is that fair, Commissioner? Should they?
▶ 1:11:32I you know um I don't think anybody figure out how to singly solve every problem. This is a group, right? And to solve the problems, we're all going to have to want to solve. What about the 40% of all Americans who this is the only benefit that they have and it hasn't been adjusted in over 40 years. I don't know how people look themselves in the mirror and say this is okay.
▶ 1:12:03And I'm not saying you because that isn't your responsibility. It's Congress's responsibility. I was just asking you if you concur that Congress should take because it is truly unamerican that we would see five million of our fellow citizens in this day and age get below poverty level checks
▶ 1:12:33from the federal government, from the wealthiest nation in the world, the most powerful nation in the world and this Congress can't take care of these individuals. That is an outrage and a shame. Do you consider Social Security an entitlement? Social Security is an earned benefit. Thank you.
▶ 1:13:01And that's what President Trump said, too, by the way. He stood out amongst all other Republican back when he first won election for president saying it was not an intent. It was an earned benefit. Absolutely right. The people have paid into and they deserve. We got 10,000 baby boomers a day that become eligible for social security. And yet Congress has not adjusted.
▶ 1:13:29Now they said, "Well, we did weapon GO. That was a great thing from a policy standpoint. Was it paid for? No, it was not. We got a lot of work to do on this committee and it starts with having hearings so that we get it. Thank you. I believe you're a man of integrity. I look forward to working with you. I look forward to working with you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 1:13:55One of the things I want to just note that uh you know, the system's designed as people uh get their receive their benefits that they increase over years as economic growth happens. It's adjusted for wages. uh it's also adjusted annually for inflation to offset that and and to help with uh with that as far as the cost of an economic growth. So u now I'd like to recognize working well for sub for question for the record. Excuse me.
▶ 1:14:21I neglect I neglected to just uh for the record we have uh several pieces of editorial boards etc etc. Without objection I ask to submit it for the record. Without objection. So ordered. Thank you. And now I recognize working welfare subcommittee chair uh Mr. Le Hood for questions. Uh, thank you, Chairman Estus and Commissioner.
▶ 1:14:45Um, as was mentioned in my opening statement, the jurisdiction that we have on the work and welfare subcommittee pertains to a couple different areas that I want to discuss with you today. One is foster care and another is SSI benefits. And uh, in 2023, the Social Security Administration paid nearly $190 million in SSI and SS benefits to children in foster care.
▶ 1:15:11and monthly data exchanges are very important to ensure that state child welfare agencies are the appropriate representative payee and ensure accountability on how benefits are managed on behalf of foster youth.
▶ 1:15:26Um, could you provide insights today on any strategies the SSA plans to utilize to ensure all states are participating in these monthly data exchanges and that they can uh actively do once a data sharing agreement is made. Yeah. Uh we've we've been working actively on data exchanges and uh I think it's a vital part. data exchanges go beyond this, but specifically here.
▶ 1:15:56Um, and I'm happy to come back to you on on more detailed answer. We have some more work to do ourselves, but I'm happy to work with your office on anything that they have that they'd like us to do also there. Well, I I I want to raise the importance of those monthly data exchanges. We've had um at least one uh subcommittee hearing on that and we'd love to work with you and your team on some of the policy initiatives that we believe would be important to fix that.
▶ 1:16:24Um I um also um all our government programs including DI and SSI need to be better oriented to provide every opportunity for individuals no matter their disability or their circumstance to grow their capacity and to be connected to meaningful work. And I talked about this again in my opening statement.
▶ 1:16:45In 1999, the Ticket to Work program was created to allow SSI and DI beneficiaries to voluntarily get connected to vocational rehabilitation services and work towards specified employment goals. Despite years of evaluations, GAO found the program was having little impact. Um, Commissioner, uh, do you have an update on the status of the Ticket to Work program?
▶ 1:17:13And is there something you um will work on with the committee to see how we can improve this, uh, legislatively or administratively? Uh, we talked about it this week inside SSA. Uh, I'm happy to work with, uh, and we have you have a commitment from us to work on this with you.
▶ 1:17:33Um, I think I think at an overriding issue is uh which I'm sure you're you're well aware of, you know, we would like to be able to help as many people as much as possible, get more people to work in things they can and to get to work hasn't performed as we expected. Uh, but I I think there's things we could do and I don't think we should quit on it at all, but we should we should work together on how to get it right.
▶ 1:18:04Well, we appreciate that. As you're well aware, there's 7 million unfilled jobs in the country today and the excuse me, look forward to working with you on this program. I yield back. Thank you. I I now recognize working welfare ranking member Mr. Davis for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you again, Commissioner.
▶ 1:18:26During the last Trump administration, SSA proposed a regulation that would have caused hundreds of thousands of disabled seniors, children, and adults with serious illnesses to lose their benefits because they couldn't keep up with the new paperwork to remain The regulation was not related to any new law and was eventually withdrawn after widespread concern.
▶ 1:18:56If you could, if you would answer yes or no, I'd appreciate it. President Trump promised not to cut Social Security during this term. Will you join him in that promise? 100 100%. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you. I knew we'd get off to a great start.
▶ 1:19:18Um, also last year at the request of many of us on the subcommittee, SSA began an effort to quickly address about a sharp rise in children with cickle cell disease being denied supplemental security benefits that help their families manage.
▶ 1:19:41cle cell of course is a painful and debilitating condition that affects about one in every 365 black children and many of them in my district.
▶ 1:19:55After our letter, SSA commissioned the blue ribbon panel of experts at the National Academy of Sciences to study advances in cickle cell treatment and make recommendations about whether SSA needs to update its cickle cell disease An initial report released this month found that SSA is denying SSI
▶ 1:20:25to many individuals with severe disease because the regulation has not kept up with medical science. What what are the next steps that SSA have to make sure that sick children with sickle cell are not denied basic I apologize that I don't know that issue right this before you brought it up sir but it will get my full attention tomorrow.
▶ 1:20:56We would and I I will report back to you. We certainly appreciate that. And there are actually some other difficult diseases that fit that category.
▶ 1:21:11Importantly, after we raised the concerns, SSA moved quickly to produce three helpful plain English guides for those with sickle cell to applying for SSI to make sure that eligible individuals are not denied because of process challenges.
▶ 1:21:33And would you make those guides available and make sure as you look into the sickle cell issue? Yes, sir. Thank you very much. I appreciate your responses and we look forward to working with you. I look forward to working with you, sir. Thank you. And uh now I recognize Mr. Kerry from Ohio for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the commissioner for being here today.
▶ 1:22:02Um, and for those of you, I mean, I know you highlighted on your father's background, but you also talk about how he was an orphaned uh at a very young age. Um, and your family obviously coming from Italy. Um, but it really I think it underscores but also I mean really underscores just how personal and important social security is to you. And it's not just you. It's people all over this country, people all over Ohio. I had grandparents that their sole income was social security.
▶ 1:22:32Um, some of these benefits, they changed the lives of of all Americans. That's why it's so important that SSA continues to ensure that the right person gets the right benefits at the right time. Doing so not only gives Americans certainty, but it helps them ensure the solveny and longevity of the trust fund.
▶ 1:22:50At last Congress, I had uh helped craft bipartisan legislation after hearing heartbreaking stories from my constituents about improper payments, situations for no fault of their own um that the errors actually would occur and then they would have to pay back years after they had received that money. Almost a decade ago, Congress gave SSA the authority to implement payroll information exchange to help prevent these kinds of mistakes.
▶ 1:23:20And yet year after year the beneficiaries continue to suffer and it's time to fix that as I know you're aware of. Um the other thing I wanted to highlight just before we go on because I do think this was a very important piece of legislation. Last year, I was proud to support and that it was also signed in law the Social Security Fairness Act, which eliminated the barriers that prevented civil workers such as our firefighters, our teachers, our police officers from receiving their Social Security benefits.
▶ 1:23:49I want to thank you and Social Security for the quick implementation of that law because I continue to hear from Ohioans that they are now receiving those benefits. I had three of those individuals in my office today just talking about that. So, quick question, Mr. Commissioner. In your testimony, you mentioned that SSA has scheduled downtime service hours uh for the website. What is the total predetermined downtime for a a system weekly?
▶ 1:24:17Uh, as I said, 18% that would get you to like 29 hours a week. um you all uh and I'm not saying like there's the answer to everything in life, but there are no other websites in the history of the world that have scheduled downtime of 29 hours. And I've heard from everybody how important this service is.
▶ 1:24:42So you know as I listen uh this was you know um we used to p we we we publish our service hours the hours we are going to serve the public on the web and we're missing 29 hours a week of serving the public on the web and so that'll get fixed in in the next two months and I think it's indicative of uh not accepting the norm that's been there for years.
▶ 1:25:12Why is that? Okay. Um, and I've never heard anybody ever talk about it, but that's just the schedule downtime. So, I think that's a that's a lot of opportunity lost. Uh, a lot of opportunity lost to serve the public the way they want to be served. Um, I don't know many I don't know many websites that schedule 29 hours of downtime. I mean in your in your private sector side sir I mean what would you think the average downtime should be? Zero.
▶ 1:25:42Excellent. Uh what changes would you make to improve service and increase accessibility to SSA's online services so that if Americans receive the service they Well I think uh I think we we actually have a really good tool in my SSA but we need to promote it and the rewrite of the web is also to make it easier. You know, onethird of field office visits are for replacement cards and they could be done either on the phone or on the web.
▶ 1:26:12Now, we know there's some people, as we said before, that don't have broadband, don't have the capability, but this is not a third of the population, right? But a third of the field office visits are for replacement cards. If we can, we need to promote better on the web. We need to explain to people the capabilities that they can do.
▶ 1:26:36I don't think most people get up thinking, "Hey, I want to drive 20 minutes to go get a replacement card if they could avoid it." And they could actually do it on the web. So, I think we don't market it well. It's not easy to operate and then it's down a lot. That will all get fixed. And when I talk about us fixing things, I'm not talking about three years from now. I'm talking about this year, you know, and and that's really, you know, what we're going to do, you know. My time is my time is expired, but I want to thank you for your testimony. And with that, Mr.
▶ 1:27:06Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. Well, thank you. And now I recognize Miss Moore from Wisconsin for five minutes. Thank you, sir. Let me uh join my colleagues in welcoming you to the committee. Thank you. Um we do have a Fiser Forum in Milwaukee in our sports arena. I know. So I really admire we won a national we won the NBA. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
▶ 1:27:33Um I do have a some questions uh regarding your background and and the suitability for this particular program. I I it is really clear that the president's budget, the activities of Doge and so forth really rely on AI, which may be your background and financial processing to substitute quite frankly for the the human dimension of social security uh determinations and eligibility.
▶ 1:28:04And in particular, I read over your testimony and I saw some of the appendices uh to your testimony uh where and I just want a little clarification of what you meant there. You talked about AI. Oh, I'm finding the pages now.
▶ 1:28:20you talked about it uh uh in um redeterminations, automated medical acquisitions and processing, AI for drafting medical summaries and dispositions, analytics and disability decision support. And so I was wondering uh to to the extent that um that you're first of all just let me ask some questions, make sure I'm going in the right direction.
▶ 1:28:47Are we relying on AI to help us route out a lot of the waste, fraud, and abuse that you say are in the program? I think I think first of all, um, AI is technology, right? Right. AI is technology. So, okay. I was I I like to say I've been heard to say I was doing AI before it was called AI. Okay. Okay. Got it. So, I I treat it like it's technology. Okay.
▶ 1:29:11So, some of these redeterminations of eligibility, is that an effort to use AI to route out waste, fraud, and abuse? It's an effort to get it right. Somebody might be like blind for six months and then get a redetermination six months later to see if they're still blind. No, I think I think not.
▶ 1:29:31No, I I I think at a very macro level, what we're talking about is making the things that people can't do without tons of manual labor presented to them in a fashion that Okay. I I get I get I'm not the chairman, so I don't get to go. I'm I'm sorry if I'm interrupting you, but I my time is um trying to answer your question. I I hear that.
▶ 1:30:01I appreciate that. What I'm trying to figure out is that have you all justified the termination of these thousands of experienced social security administration people because in fact um AI is going to get you 15 minutes extra time or 30 minutes extra time or are you relying more on that or are you to what extent are you relying on AI to assist you in eligibility determinations?
▶ 1:30:31I think we're going to use technology across the board to make jobs better for our employees. No, I'm not talking about your employees. If I'm 65 years old, for example, the people who work on this are our employees, right? They just don't, you know, we don't do these. I'm talking about as a customer, if I'm 64 years old and someone has said that you're old enough, I mean, you're not old enough to get social security, you can work.
▶ 1:30:59Is AI going to help us determine their beyond, you know, if they say my back? I don't really I don't really understand that example you just gave me. Well, I'm just going by what you have provided uh in your um as uh agenda to to your resume analytics and disability decision support AI for drafting medical summaries and dispositions.
▶ 1:31:26Um, and you know, AI is going to give a summary of the medical reports. They're going to analyze the medical evidence to support disability determination. So, if I I see the staff is trying to help.
▶ 1:31:39So if I'm 64 years old and I have decided that my back my you know arterial sclerosis or whatever arthritis is so bad is AI going to analyze this and say to someone well it's not bad enough everybody every one of the decisions will be made by a human assisted by AI. Maybe that helps. Okay. Okay. This is how to shorten the You know, we want to sit here and talk about the length of time.
▶ 1:32:10So, what I'm saying is Excuse me, ma'am. AI is going to replace. No, it's my time. So, excuse me. I I I get to talk. I'm sorry. You You can't say excuse me and cut me off because I was asking you some questions. You were asking me a question. I was trying to answer it. As you can see, my time is expired.
▶ 1:32:30Uh, and I'm sorry if you felt that I interrupted my time, but that's the way this works and and maybe you'll get a little bit more familiar with how we operate the next time you come for us. Thank you. And uh, now I recognize Mr. Finster from Iowa for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman Estes and Chairman Le Hood and Ranking Member uh, Davis Larson. Thank you for putting and holding this joint hearing. Uh, Commissioner Biziano, thank you for being here.
▶ 1:32:56I I want to just say you are a breath of fresh air and I truly look forward to working with you. This is probably one of the the hottest topics that is not being talked about. Literally not being talked about. It's oneif of our spending goes to social security each and every year. One that's a lot of dollars. And uh I just want to talk about something. Uh you're a social security trustee.
▶ 1:33:18And the trustes report uh shows that social security as you know uh the the program is projected to be uh in an unpayable uh full benefits u in eight years right it's it's supposed to have significant problems and yet this is the interesting thing about this the very interesting thing the CBO doesn't ever tell the public this the CBO and all its projections shows in perpetuity that it'll always have dollars that that everybody will be fine and so the the general public out there
▶ 1:33:48is sort of unaware of the cliff that's going to happen in eight years. And I just want to you tell you I I'm soon reintroducing my Save Our Seniors Act that will require the CBO to show both payable and scheduled benefits and what's going to happen in the next 10 years because no one knows at this point. So, uh this has to happen. And uh by the way, the the National Taxpayers Union said this is the the biggest no-brainer bill uh in Congress right now. then it's got to get done.
▶ 1:34:18It's probably one of the most important things. My question to you uh Mr. Biziano, Commissioner, uh I live in rural America. I live in rural Iowa and I have uh uh you know most rural area. Uh what specific steps are are we taking to ensure that real Americans, especially seniors and those disabled can in a timely manner access quality services from Social Security, whether it be online, by phone, or in person.
▶ 1:34:46How can we continue to create a better, more quality service in the social security arena? Well, I think uh I think the things we do and plan on doing uh whether it's in the field offices, on the phones, or on the web, um I think will benefit rural as much as it will benefit urban.
▶ 1:35:08Um I think the idea that uh your constituents could do business where they want to do it and how they want to do it is what our objective is. Our um our phone technology still has a bunch more work to do. Uh but obviously uh 42% of the calls are answered instantaneously and we think that can double.
▶ 1:35:31Um we do think that we got to help our field offices with better automation there also and the phone systems have been upgraded there and then uh you know my belief you heard about the web before that there's a great opportunity to be able to serve them. So uh I recognize uh the challenges of being in rural America.
▶ 1:35:52I uh I lived in Kansas for a bit and so I consider that at parts and I lived in a rural place and I think an omni channel experience whether it's on the phone or on the web or or in person have it all happen uh in a way that the American public enjoys it is really my objective. Thank you. Thank you for that and I look forward to continuing to work with you especially in rural America and and you just nailed it. I mean we we can continue to provide better service.
▶ 1:36:21One other thing that really uh uh uh really gets to me and it gets to my heart is foster children and social security. The use of social security benefits for eligible foster children by state child welfare agencies has garnered a lot of attention from state legislatores and national media. Child welfare agencies often act as a representative payes for children in foster care and use these benefits to meet beneficiaries current maintenance.
▶ 1:36:47I I just want you to ex I I'll I'll mention it, but if you could explore, can we explore ways to improve the awareness among foster youth about social security benefits, including examining policies related to state child welfare agencies acting as representative payes? I don't know if you know a lot about that, but I would love it if you could look into that. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. You have you have my commitment. I'll spend more time on it. I'll come back to you. Yeah, thank you so much.
▶ 1:37:14Again, these are foster children and sometimes they're getting really taken advantage of and we can't have that. So, I thank you for taking a look at that. I greatly appreciate it. And with that, I yield back. Thank you. Uh, now I recognize Miss Chu from California for 5 minutes. Uh, Commissioner, since the beginning of this administration, more than 7,000 Social Security Administration employees have been fired or forced out.
▶ 1:37:38These cuts were done even though SSA was already at a 50-year staffing low and the result has been disastrous with countless reports across the country about longer waiting times, backlogs, and delays at SSA. I've heard from constituents in my district who can't get their issues resolved because every time they call, they are put on hold for multiple hours only for the line to eventually just hang up on them.
▶ 1:38:07This means seniors are not receiving their earned retirement benefits on time. And very poor seniors, people with intellectual disabilities and disabled children are going without their ba basic necessities because they can't get help applying for SSI and that amounts to benefit cuts. Democrats have been trying to address this for months.
▶ 1:38:30Ranking member Larson introduced a resolution of inquiry that would have required the administration to hand over documents on worker firings and office closures at SSI. Uh unfortunately, Republicans on this committee voted unanimously to kill it. And even now, Republicans can't even bring themselves to acknowledge the staffing shortage as a problem, let alone recognize that it's the Trump administration that manufactured much of this crisis to begin with.
▶ 1:39:00So, Commissioner Bizano, you testified that you have wanted to improve customer service. You have a long way to go just to undo the damage of the last few months, but unfortunately, it looks like your agency has made it harder for us to even monitor whether the service is improving or getting worse. Um, so, Mr.
▶ 1:39:26Chair, I have um a record that of a report that of the Washington Post titled Social Security stops reporting call weight times um reporting call weight times and other metrics and it's from Friday, June 20th and and I ask unanimous consent to enter this into the record. That objection so ordered.
▶ 1:39:50So, um, before you arrived, Commissioner Bisnano, SSA regularly shared 34 different customer service metrics with the public, including how long it would take for SSA to answer calls or process benefit applications. But earlier this month, your agency removed most of that information from your web page.
▶ 1:40:14After the Post article was published, SSA only restored one of their 34 data elements, which raises real questions about why the rest of it is still being hidden from the public. I also understand that our ways and means staff is still waiting for performance and staffing data that we have requested.
▶ 1:40:39It makes me wonder if SSA doesn't want us to know how deep the damage from this administration has been. So, I would like to ask a yes or no question. Will you instruct your staff to provide this committee with the performance and staffing data that we requested so we can actually monitor whether things are getting better or worse?
▶ 1:41:04And will you commit to restoring all the robust public data to the Social Security Administration's website that SSA previously reported so that taxpayers can know whether you are keeping your promise to provide the customer service they paid for. Um couple items please.
▶ 1:41:25you referred to uh office closures and I think I was quite clear earlier about office closures uh that in fact uh there was one office because of a lease issue that was closed. Well, it's about SSA answering calls. No, I I'm going through everything you said, ma'am. I'm answering your question, but I'm also making sure you're clear on the record about office closures.
▶ 1:41:55You also refer to that SSA is at a all-time staffing low. It's also at an all-time technological high. And what I mean by excuse me, what I mean by that is okay. So reclaiming my time, I also want to say that on the technological. Yeah. Now you are changing the answering of these calls to AI.
▶ 1:42:21and a reporter said that it took eight tries to get transferred to an agency and an AI bot asked one reporter several time to end the call and gave unrelated information about the cost of living adjustment. I urge you to reconsider whether by the way that change was put in before I was commissioner by the way. Okay, that was on 51 that change. Thank you.
▶ 1:42:47uh gentle lady's time's expired and and uh she does control the time as she goes through the process and um in terms of the questions asked and responses. So thank thank you. We do we do control the time. Thank you. Um and now I I I call on Mr. Yakam from Indiana for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Biznaniano, thanks for being here today.
▶ 1:43:08The Biden administration created an appointment-based policy that some field offices seem to be using to turn away customers, even though the policy states that customers are not required to have an appointment. Can you please clarify SSA's policy and tell us what you're doing to ensure walk-ins are not turned away at field offices? Uh the policy is to uh serve every American. We encourage an appointment. an appointment. In fact, we have a schedule that in in technology, we're making that a broader, wider schedule.
▶ 1:43:39Uh we also take phone calls in the field offices and we brought uh a technology system in there for the phones that'll get finished in August. Um and then, uh we accept uh walk-ins. I mean, you know, uh person drives 20 minutes to come see us, we think we should serve them. Um, and you know, field offices are integral. Uh, that's why, you know, I've been very clear that we can't close any field offices.
▶ 1:44:09Um, but I I think, you know, our job is to serve the American public. Thank you. On March 1st, Martin Ali, President Biden's commissioner of Social Security, predicted, and I quote, "Ultimately, you're going to see the system collapse and an interruption of benefits. I believe you will see that within the next 30 to 90 days." End quote. It's been 116 days since he said that. Commissioner Biznaniano, has social security collapsed?
▶ 1:44:36Well, I I thought I thought, you know, uh as a Senate confirmed commissioner that, you know, all those people worked for and all the people still work there. Um that was really not very nice or accurate. Um, and so nice and not nice and inaccurate is not really good. This system will not collapse. I guarantee that. And what about benefits?
▶ 1:45:06Have the benefits been interrupted? Not once. We actually, if you remember, we took what was told to be a year for the uh fairness act and got it done in less than six months. Is it responsible for Democrats like Martin Omali to spread epo apoplelectic uh conspiracy theories and um and hyperbolic predictions and really just go out there and scare seniors?
▶ 1:45:34Is that Well, I I'm you know, I'm a a judge of someone else. I just uh I just know that uh we're going to go do a great job. That's what I know. And thank you. Under the Biden administration, call times really shot up significantly. The SSDI claims backlog also skyrocketed and SSA waited until April 7th of 2022, long after COVID was over, to reopen field offices.
▶ 1:46:05Instead of fixing these issues, the Biden administration focused on infusing SSA with woke ideology. It implemented mandatory agencywide implicit bias training, which studies have long showed don't work and can even sometimes make things worse. Under your leadership, does SSA still force employees to complete implicit bias training? No, sir. Thank you. It also implemented additional DEI training, which again uh studies show don't work for executives, managers uh and supervisors as well as claims adjudicators.
▶ 1:46:36Under your leadership, does SSA still force supervisors and adjudicators to complete DEI training? No, sir. The Biden administration also promised to quote increase workforce diversity through improved recruitment, hiring, and retention. Under your leadership, is SSA making hiring and promotion decisions based on DEI No, sir. Thank you, uh, Commissioner, for being here today. And, uh, let me just add add this.
▶ 1:47:02From the perspective of my constituents who are on social security, what they care about most is customer service. being able to walk in, get an appointment, being able to call someone, have them answer the phone, and making sure that their benefits are are uninterrupted, which I know you stated today that you're committed to ensuring that all those things happen. I think those things are are critically uh important. They don't care who's answering the phone or who's providing the customer service. They just care that their needs are met. That's what's most important just from a practical, common sense approach.
▶ 1:47:31And uh thanks again for being here today and for your service. Thank you. Thank you. And now I recognize Mr. Horsford from Nevada for 5 minutes. Thank you to chairs Estus and La Hood and our ranking members Larsson and Davis. I'm pleased that we are h having this hearing although I uh wish we could have done it as a full committee. Uh thank you commissioner for appearing before us and uh I just want to get straight to my questions because I have been waiting uh to get some responses.
▶ 1:48:01Uh, as my colleagues have stated, you know, local field offices are a lifeline uh to our constituents, seniors, people with disabilities, widows, widowers. Um, and when someone needs help applying for benefits, correcting an issue with their payments, or navigating a complex system, they turn to these offices for in-person trained support.
▶ 1:48:26Unfortunately, uh, the Trump Vance administration's shifting stance on shutting down field offices is deeply alarming. But even more troubling is the confusion that it's already caused. First, Doge released one list of office closures. Then, the General Service Administration released another. And now, the Social Security Administration has its own third list. This just creates chaos.
▶ 1:48:55And I don't understand why. In my district, both in uh my district office as well here in in um our DC office, we're flooded with panic calls when Doge announced the closure of a local Social Security office on 701 Bridger Avenue in Las Vegas, Nevada. Even after your agency backtracked on DOA's wishes, the fear has not gone away.
▶ 1:49:25My constituents, excuse me, are still afraid that they will lose access to the help that they need. In Nevada alone, one in four seniors, that's 139,000 people, live nearly an hour away from the nearest office. So, Commissioner, since my constituents are incredibly afraid that the Trump Vance administration may very well shut down their local Social Security field office, I want to cut through the noise and get a clear answer for them.
▶ 1:49:55Do you plan to close any Social Security field office? Yes or no? No. Do you commit right here, right now, to keep all Social Security field offices open, not only in my congressional district, but in every congressional district across the country? Yes or no? I've committed before and I'll commit again that if yes or no. If for some reason there is or we might wake up one day and a field office doesn't have any traffic.
▶ 1:50:24Will No. Reclaiming my time. The problem with your failure to respond to my question and answer it with a yes or no response indicates your willingness to not ensure that these services are available and the closure of that office or the threatened closure was with no notification to me or anyone else in the Nevada delegation.
▶ 1:50:52Do you commit to working to say what I was trying to say? Excuse me. It's my time. Right. Don't speak over me while I'm asking you questions. I don't work for you. I work for 750,000 people in Nevada. Do you commit to working to ensure that all field offices are not only fully operational, but also better staffed, more efficient, and equipped to meet the growing needs of the public? Yes or no? I I commit to they will be working exon. Yes or no?
▶ 1:51:22It's a very simple question, sir. I don't know if we need more staff in any of them. I said better staffed, more efficient, and equipped. Yes. In April, I led my colleagues on this committee in introducing a resolution of inquiry demanding answers about Doge's fueled plans to shut down field offices, slash staff, and gut customer service.
▶ 1:51:49One such Dogs-driven policy would have eliminated the option for retirees and survivors to apply for benefits or update their direct deposit information over the phone. While SSA eventually reverse course thanks to public outcry, beneficiaries still can't make direct deposit changes by phone.
▶ 1:52:10So, Commissioner, as a self-described fundamental Doge person, do you truly believe that policies forcing nearly a million hours of unnecessary travel on beneficiaries are efficient? Yes or no? Uh, I would think that would be a no. Thank you.
▶ 1:52:27Finally, I am still waiting on an answer about the breach of information that affects constituents and their information and whether that personal information, medical information, disability information by DOE is any way being used for purposes other than their intended.
▶ 1:52:50Uh, so I will look forward to having your office work with my office and I ask for your commitment today to receive a response to that inquiry. Yes, sir. Thank you. I yield back. Thank Thank you. And now recognize Mr. Bean from Florida. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. A very good afternoon to you. Good afternoon, Ways and Means. And, uh, Commissioner Bizano, welcome. We're glad to have you here. Uh, nobody likes to wait.
▶ 1:53:18I'm one of the worst waiters there is. I think uh when my family and I go out to dinner, we always play the game of how long uh if what what number is it? They ta they'll tell us the the hostess will tell us for a table how long and uh if it's over or under. Mine is seven minutes. Uh if it's over seven minutes, uh my kids know we're going to go somewhere else. They say, "Dad, stay." But uh everybody has a different number.
▶ 1:53:46Uh but let me tell you what you did on weight times uh commissioner because I have your report card of what you have done under your leadership under Biden's leadership uh the work from home program I think it was a disaster because the wait time on the 1-800 number based on uh data that I have from November of 23 it was a 42 minute wait but when you've come and made people come back to work at uh at SSA and answer the phone quickly it's dropped to 16.7.
▶ 1:54:16Uh that's data from just two months ago in April of of 25. Uh tell us uh what have you done to do that? Uh the success of that and what do you plan to take it further? Well, you know, and uh in this year's plan, it's to get uh to 12 to 12 minutes. Um, I think I think it's, you know, uh, one is we got to start the day with everybody on the phone.
▶ 1:54:45And, uh, what I learned is that, uh, that wasn't necessarily how we started the day within a, um, within a time zone. So, I think we got to start the day at 8:00 on the phone with everybody and that makes a change. Uh, obviously that wasn't how the work requirements were.
▶ 1:55:05So, you know, sometimes the answers are not Uh they're simpler, but I think we also are continuing to drive a better technological experience, you know, even even on those when we have a longer wait time.
▶ 1:55:22And one of the reasons we took weight time off the the the website was because I thought it discouraged people from calling because many times I know in your your your personal life you may make a call and they tell you wait times 5 minutes but we'll call you back or wait times 30 minutes but we'll call you back. So we do 75% call backs. Uh, and so if you show that you got an hour and a half wait time, well, people are going to be discouraged to not call.
▶ 1:55:51Bean would be out if it said uh, you know, 90 minutes, but I think people appreciate the call time. There's confusion over field offices. You didn't get to finish your thought on field offices. I want to give you a a few uh, just a little bit of time to clear that up. It sounds like you're putting the resources where the people are and where it's busy. Is that correct? Or clear the record? Yes. Yes.
▶ 1:56:12I mean our objective is to serve people well across every channel and obviously uh you know 127,000 people a day come to field offices. Uh you know and meanwhile we have uh you know a million2 transactions done a day on the web. Um but you know we are going to staff field offices to get the job done and we're not closing field offices. You know there's nothing on in my office about closing a field office right now. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:56:42Uh there's been so much confusion. Uh did Elon Musk come in and steal people's social security numbers? We hear it over and over again. Uh is that true, Commissioner? I I don't know of anything of the sort. Is Doge or people that come in to work on efficiency to to make the uh to make social security more efficient, are they stealing everybody's personal information? No, sir.
▶ 1:57:09and I'm driving the efficiency agenda and these are engineers helping anybody that's around. Thank you. You mentioned taking the uh 150 year olds off the system. I don't think Doge ever said or at least what I've heard him say them say is that they were getting checks. It's just that they were on the system and as you said uh it leaves the door open and it leaves everybody suspect. Is the data accurate?
▶ 1:57:36What are we doing to correct the system and make the system more accurate? Well, I mean, uh, data integrity is job one and, uh, we've we've run a lot of different programs. You know, we have a lot better ways to to learn of death than we did years and years ago and data exchanges are kind of mandatory and then we do a lot of a lot of uh data analysis with outside agencies.
▶ 1:58:02Commissioner, you could be doing you could be running any Fortune 500 c uh Fortune 500 company right now. Thank you for your service in writing this ship and we appreciate you very much. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, sir. Thank you. And now I recognize Mr. Evans from Pennsylvania for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ricky member.
▶ 1:58:22We owe the American people a promise of their earned income Commissioner, as you share this I want to remind you about the Americans who are relying on Social Security.
▶ 1:58:40One Philadelphiaian worked as a housekeeper or three different hotels in one university to earn the Social Security disability insurance that she has now come to rely on. Without social security, she would be homeless at 57 years. Another constituent of mines worked on her whole life as a teacher.
▶ 1:59:07She was diligent in saving money, but she also paid into social security. Another was her husband died. She needed social security more than ever. This would know that since Trump returned, I'm hearing about many just like this. Here's one major example.
▶ 1:59:31Trump brought back the practice of taxing people entire social security payment in cases where the SSA overpaid them by no fault of their own. This practice forced one of my constituents to go over six months without receiving any of these social security practices. Even now, 50% is one way too much to take with when another person for another person's survival.
▶ 2:00:02With three of my colleagues, I introduced a bill to protect beneficiaries by limiting the recovery rate to 10% of their monthly social security payment. Commissioner sen s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s seniors are living in fear because of this unpredictability and damaging action taken against social security. I'm proud to speak on their behalf today.
▶ 2:00:31I will continue to defend social security. They earned it. So I want to thank you for coming. But remember, they earned it. It's the only income that they have. So, we should not take it lightly. So, I recommend, Commissioner, that you understand that they earned it. I yield back to you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Now, I recognize Mr. Miller from Ohio for five minutes.
▶ 2:01:02Thank you, Chairman. Really appreciate it. Thank you for holding this important hearing as we work to strengthening the integrity of social security programs that provide essential benefits to Americans have earned over the course of their working careers as well build opportunities for many more challenged within our societies. The first social security payment was paid to an Ohioan 90 years ago.
▶ 2:01:24I am heartened to hear that the Social Security Administration has implemented many of the administration initiatives to improve efficiency, reduce federal bureaucracy, and ensure that the Social Security is strong for generations to come, including someone like myself who is only 36 years of age. Through your recent fiscal year 2026 president's budget request of 14.793 billion, it is indicated that the Social Security Administration will focus on delivering timely, effective services.
▶ 2:01:54As you noted in the budget request, the public deserves the highest level of customer service from their government, especially from our agency, which interacts with customers more than 500 million times through a field office visits, calls, and online services annually. And thank you for saying that. Like many of my constituents, I remain concerned about the financial strength of Social Security program and its long-term survival.
▶ 2:02:20On June 18th, the board of trustees of an of the federal old age and survivors insurance trust fund, including the secretaries of labor, health, and human services, the treasury, and the commissioner of social security, notified Congress that without action to address the imbalance between Social Security program revenues and benefits that fund will fall below 20% of annual costs by December 31st of 2034.
▶ 2:02:46Given this, it is vitally important that work is done to improve the efficiency and the integrity of the Social Security program. We also need to continue to protect the hard-earned dollars Americans earn through a lifetime of work. As an example, the Credit for Caring Act, sponsored by my Ohio colleague, Rep. Mike Kerry, assists in keeping individuals in the workplace when able.
▶ 2:03:10AARP Ohio data shows that when someone earning leaves the workforce, there is a substantial loss not only to the individual but the entire social security system is completely weakened. One of the key issues I'd like to focus on today is the opportunities under social security such as return to work incentives designed to encourage individuals to return to work when able, earn wages and lessen need for government benefits while building self-esteem and independence.
▶ 2:03:39The Social Security's Administration Ticket to Work program allows eligibility, disability insurance, and Social Security income beneficiaries to earn voluntarily obtain employment services, vocational rehabilitation services, or other support services to achieve specified work goals.
▶ 2:03:57Sir, how does Social Security's Ticket to Work program support those with disabilities, move toward financial independence, and connect them with the services and support they need to succeed within the I think uh I think ultimately uh and I've heard it time and time again, and we're going to continue to work hard and work with your office if you'd like. The idea of getting people back in the workforce is the best thing we could do for them.
▶ 2:04:25I think we also have situations where, you know, uh, people today, you know, uh, the job, you know, I've heard so many times about the job file and and so we we're going to work hard on legislature with you guys to change those things. And I think uh, I like to spend some time with on the ticket to work program because I think we could get a better outcome than we're getting there.
▶ 2:04:50Also, I do as well and I look forward to working with you and your team and you know hopefully both sides of the aisle will interact but definitely us for sure. How may this effort be a good tool uh serve for the people who are currently receiving Social Security disability benefits but who want to improve their earning potential as it offers qualified people with disabilities access to meaningful employment with the assistance of authorized employment service providers or of nearly of the 12.3 million eligible beneficiaries in 23 only 311,000 or just
▶ 2:05:202 and a half% were participating in Ticket to Work. Please let us know what tools the Social Security Administration may need from Congress to help make this program even more successful. I will come back to you, sir. Thank you very much. And by the way, I look forward to working with you uh and working with your team and any questions that we can work together in education. I very much forward looking to keep this program around even for someone like myself who's just 36. Thank you very much, Mr. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 2:05:48I now recognize Miss Su from Alabama for five minutes. Mr. Chairman, today I want to sound the alarm and to stand in defense of the more than 300 million Americans who depend upon Social Security, especially the 164,000 recipients in my Alabama district for whom Social Security is not just a safety net, but it is a promise. A promise made to hardworking men and women who paid into a system their entire lives.
▶ 2:06:18A promise that under the Trump administration is being greatly undermined. A promise that is not an entitlement, but as my colleague from Pennsylvania said is an earned benefit. The truth is that the Trump administration is fundamentally changing the way Social Security delivers customer service and not for the better. These changes are not modernizing. They are marginalizing marginalizing certain social security beneficiaries.
▶ 2:06:49They are marginalized those in rural and lowincome and elderly that lack broadband. They marginalize those that are hearing impaired with other disabilities that limit their ability to maneuver automated systems. Instead of investing in hardworking people who answer uh our seniors questions and process the disability claims and assist those facing life's toughest challenges, the Trump administration is cutting social security staff.
▶ 2:07:19They are replacing human service with automated systems and digital solutions, ignoring the fact that millions of Americans lack internet, don't own a smartphone, or simply do not care to be guided through an automated process, but rather would like to speak to a human being.
▶ 2:07:39In the name of efficiency, they are gutting the very thing that makes social security work, its accessibility and its Let me give you a few examples of what this means in real life. In rural Alabama, a 72year-old widow who lost her husband suddenly was told to go online to complete survivor benefit paperwork, but she doesn't own a computer.
▶ 2:08:05The nearest Social Security field office, oh well, that's an hour and a half away and only open part-time. In Birmingham, Alabama, a disabled veteran trying to appeal a denied claim sat on hold for over 90 minutes only to be told that they can use an online portal that kept crashing. His benefits, his livelihoods was delayed for months.
▶ 2:08:31In black and brown communities where generational poverty and digital exclusion remain high, seniors are now expected to navigate impersonal, impersonable, and inaccessible systems with little or no support. These are not only cruel, but they are having a disproportionate impact on certain communities. So, let's be clear, these are not isolated incidents. They are the direct result of policy choices.
▶ 2:09:01The Trump administration has sought to turn the Social Security administration into a self-service kiosk, stripping away the human infrastructure that millions rely on. Mr. Commissioner, uh, President Trump in in his 2026 budget, would lock would actually cut one in eight employees from Social Security, but also give $600 million towards uh, technology. Uh, just a yes and no answer.
▶ 2:09:31Do you plan as the administrator to contract out technology development to Elon Musk or companies that you or other Trump officials have worked in or own stock in? Yes or no? No, ma'am. Have you yourself ever called the 1 800 number for Social Security Administration? Yes or no? Yes.
▶ 2:09:55Um, so with so much emphasis on technology, my my next question is, has the agency studied the digital divide, including lack of broadband access, computer literacy or language barriers among social security beneficiaries before you implemented these changes that you now that you now have? Yes or no? What we have the digital what we have is all the field offices that we ever had. Ma'am, I understand that.
▶ 2:10:25What I'm really asking is whether or not there was any a forethought given to the changes that we're having because if you really had an opportunity to look at the impact of technology, you'll see that it is not a cure all rather there's so many people where the digital divi divide is real and I represent a li a large sum of them. Listen, I want to just say that my constituents want transparency and accountability. They deserve it.
▶ 2:10:52Social Security was never meant to be a tech first or detached from people service. It was built on the principle that we care for one another. That when you work hard and you earn a living and that part of that living is going to your social security benefit for when you retire, that it's there when you need it. With that, I yield back the balance of my time. Thank you. U pursuant to committee practice, we'll now move to two to one questioning. And I recognize Mr.
▶ 2:11:21Moren from Texas for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Bzignano, I want to just follow up with what Miss Su just said. She was given an example about somebody having to drive an hour and a half to a physical facility. That's not because of something that you've done, is it? No. We have 1,200 field offices and we had 12,200 field offices.
▶ 2:11:42We have 25,000 employees serving the American population from those field offices and we have over 4,000 people on the phones but a cadre of backup people to be able to service the phones. That's right.
▶ 2:11:58I I think you've made that point abundantly clear today and I appreciate that because I think that uh that clarity and dispelling of the rumor about these physical offices getting closed and people having to drive more hours to get somewhere to get in-person services, that's simply not a result of anything you've done. In fact, you're trying to make it easier. And the 90-minute wait time on the telephone that she may have been referencing here a second ago, that's the exact same thing that you're trying to fix and have been fixing since you came into office. Isn't that true? Yes, sir.
▶ 2:12:28Um, Commissioner, I represent the first district of Texas, and that's a northeast Texas part of dis Texas. It's 17 counties large, about as big as the state of New Jersey. It is as rural as the rest of rural America. And I'm proud to represent rural East Texans. In my East Texas district, there's about 175,000 Social Security beneficiaries, 21,000 of which receive SSI uh payments. And the delivery is crucial to to just as crucial to them as to anywhere else in rural America.
▶ 2:12:58And you said you clearly and you I'm going to quote you. You said we we will meet beneficiaries where they want to be met. And when you talked about this omni channel way that you're going to do it both in person and then also online and by telephone, I thought that was just uh exactly what the Social Security Administration needed. uh with 30 years of of experience in the private sector.
▶ 2:13:22Tell us a little bit more about how you plan to bring your private sector experience to improving the customer experience in this governmental setting and making it more efficient for uh for those that need services from the Social Security Well, I think uh the last organization I ran uh we made 850 million uh payments a day uh and uh at a you know an error rate five decimal points out.
▶ 2:13:53Uh that was through uh technology to help our employees do their job better. I think uh you know you hear me talk about this agency you know this agency is hasn't fared well you know five I'm the fifth commissioner and five months uh multiple commissioners over the past years um and the employees took the brunt of it in my mind because uh you know for three years straight they had the lowest
▶ 2:14:23ranking uh in the in the 18 large agencies and I think you Having a motivated workforce is part of the job. That's not about technology. It's about engagement of leadership. Uh I conduct meetings with next level downs every week to talk about how we're going to run the place different.
▶ 2:14:42I think we got a highly motivated crowd that are going to deliver the goods and that means you know uh more technology not to make the people go away if that's an output product maybe but we can't we we got to have our field offices uh and serve the people I I think the real issue is you know bringing technology to make the jobs better so we could perform better and the American public is the big winner through it and we will we will eliminate fraud, waste and abuse through that technology
▶ 2:15:12too. Yes, that's true. And administrator, when you uh when you talk about bringing new tools and technology, I can only imagine that the Aspria core within the base of of the folks that work for you is going to go up. And as a result, uh the value that they're going to be able to bring to the taxpayer and the the benefits they're going to be able to bring to the taxpayer is going to go up because they're going to be motivated to do a better job because they have the tools and technologies in place. Have you seen that morale go up since you've taken over? I think I think I see it.
▶ 2:15:40I think I've seen it and I've had town hall with the whole org. I've met with the second level a whole bunch. I think people believe they could win. You know, we want to be a winning team and a winning team is servicing the American public in a way that they like the way they're served. And I I think there's no no better place to start in building a winning team than bringing a a winning coach that has done this before over and over again.
▶ 2:16:04somebody that understands how to do customer service online, in person, over the telephones, and then somebody that's done this payment processing over and over and over again. You've built successful uh operations in a number of companies in the private sector. We're pleased that you've decided to join the administration and to do that in the governmental sector. We wish you the best and we offer our support in that role. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you. Thank you. And I now recognize Mr. Moore from Utah for five minutes.
▶ 2:16:33Thank you to the chairman and the chairman and the ranking member and the ranking member for this committee hearing today. Uh, Commissioner Vizaniano, I I've heard my Republican colleagues say you're a breath of fresh air. I've heard my Democrat colleagues say you're a man of integrity. Having had the chance in to to to meet with you privately now in a in a hearing and hearing much of the discussion today, uh, I just echo those sentiments.
▶ 2:16:58I'm very excited that um you're willing to to to kind of step out of your private sector role and and and come and try to bring some some expertise to this. the way you talk about it in person to me about this being something you wanted to be a part of the mission, something that you value and and uh you know this is a bit of a calling for you is is truly neat and something that I think truly the the founders intended um for people to come and and bring some level of expertise and knowledge
▶ 2:17:29and I am excited to work with you uh and your team as we as we navigate this. I I I represent Utah's first district and it's got a large IRS processing facility. Um and uh there's there's a commonality I think between um the work that they do and the work that you're leading with respect to improving the technology, improving the weight times, improving the customer service capability.
▶ 2:17:57Um and uh I I mean I'm thrilled to see some of that today. I'm I'm going to ask a couple questions on digitization and cyber security. Uh, and just to just to get your quick thoughts on this, um, in ongoing efforts to modernize social security services, it's worth flagging that half of all medical records received by state disability determination services arrived via via mail or fax.
▶ 2:18:21I'm interested if you think that claims could proceed in a timelier manner if applicants digital medical records were retrieved and analyzed and maybe how is the social security uh administration evaluating internal policy choices that may be impeding this digital transition?
▶ 2:18:38Well, I think um first place, you know, as as you all know, uh it all starts uh locally at the DDS and uh we're we're really taking a look at DDS in total and you know uh $2 billion is allocated to DDS.
▶ 2:18:56There's you know uh we talk about our headcount of 50,000 but there's 12,200 DDS uh that we're funding and streamlining that process in a manner where we also can you know treat it um making making those you know automated better in a way to protect the data is where it really starts I think and you know I think I like to spend
▶ 2:19:26a little time with you and talk about the strategy to employ there because you would have a good understanding whether you believe at the state level it it can subscribe to it because I think we got to do it at the DDS level and technically do it in a in a really modernized fashion and ultimately you know is about protecting data.
▶ 2:19:49So, you know, I think uh the more we can protect that data locally, the better served we'll be globally on it or nationally in this case. That makes sense, sir. Absolutely. Thank you. Uh the Department of Homeland Security recently issued a bulletin on a heightened threat in the United States, particularly related to cyber attacks after the escalation and potential of Middle East conflict. I know that some of this might be better discussed offline, but happy to follow up with you on that.
▶ 2:20:16Is the Social Security Administration equipped to handle sophisticated attacks from foreign adversaries? What improvements are needed to protect against these kind of attacks? How can we help? And can we work together on this? Yeah, I think I I I think our cyber our cyber profile is pretty strong. I think it's one of the strengths of the agency. You know, the agency's always been highly protective of data and information and prepared for cyber attacks.
▶ 2:20:40I've always run a program that we're going to think about some more which I would say the basic premise of a program and I think we have it here which is protect the perimeter but surveil the interior because it's sometimes in the interior where that threat comes from. But I feel I feel that we're uh a cyber a cyber defense profile is pretty strong right now and I think it was a strength of the department and is a strength of the department. Thank you sir.
▶ 2:21:07I've had conversations with you similar to this on the more acute or micro issues that are directly affecting the day-to-day but we've also discussed the more macro issues and solveny and things like that of the of the long-term uh security of this program. I just appreciate your your level-headedness about this and your willingness to be forthright and engage in this um and and and be a problem solver in something that matters enormously to the entire country.
▶ 2:21:33I obviously represent Utah which we have a couple years of lower the youngest state in the nation. So, uh we have little less pressure off of us. I want to be a part of of solving some of these long-term issues and and and look forward to some other thoughts that you've had on that. Appreciate it. And I yel back. Thank you. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Thompson from California for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner, thank you for being with us today. And I haven't met you.
▶ 2:22:00Uh but I'll stipulate uh my colleagues uh are correct in their assessment that you're a good guy. You're kind. Um before I get to my question, I just want to make a couple things perfectly clear. Uh first, Social Security is not a handout. It's a promise. It's a contract between our government and the American people.
▶ 2:22:22And for 90 years, hardworking Americans have contributed portions of every one of their paychecks, trusting that in return, they'll have some financial security when they retire, when a spouse dies, or if they become disabled. We know firsthand how vital this program is not only to our seniors but to even to Main Street in every district across the country.
▶ 2:22:48In my district, there's 153,000 people that res uh rely on social security. That's hundreds of millions of dollars a month that comes into my rural district and that's spent throughout the community and that multiplies uh throughout the community. It's an important uh economic factor in uh our uh in our area.
▶ 2:23:09So, veterans, teachers, farmers, nurses, mechanics, they've earned these benefits from a lifetime of work and a lifetime of service, and they deserve to retire with dignity. Last week, when we're on our district work period, I held three town hall uh meetings just on social security throughout my district. And at every stop, my constituents made it clear that they're terrified that this administration will weaken Social Security. And frankly, Mr.
▶ 2:23:39Commissioner, this fear is not unfounded. when people in this administration or people representing this administration call Social Security a Ponzi scheme or when my Republican colleagues suggest that it's going bankrupt and propose privatization, it sends a message to every hard-working American that the promises made to them may be broken.
▶ 2:24:05So, let me say plainly, Social Security is not going bankrupt. But our moral compass might be if we turn our back on the people who built our great country. My Republican colleagues want to have a real conversation about solveny or about strengthening Social Security. Let's have it. I'm all in. But we need to do it honestly with facts and solutions, not with fear-mongering.
▶ 2:24:34Couple of questions, Mr. Commissioner. Um, there was some discussion. I wasn't quite clear on this. Uh, closing offices. Is it accurate that we went from 10 to four regional offices? what's accurate is the following.
▶ 2:24:53There were 10 and we went to four regional executives from 10 from 10. We did not shut off if you follow my you know and if I was articulating it so there's still 10 regional offices. Uh there there's no if I was articulating it, I wasn't here for the articulation.
▶ 2:25:24What I would have said is we streamlined management of our regions because we no longer actually operate in regions, right? Um if you go over time, there was a So I I'm just I'm not clear. Are there still 10 regional offices? Uh it I I I I'm being there still are physical regional offices. Yeah.
▶ 2:25:54Although I'm trying to be very clear. We're not call. In other words, I will go down to the Atlanta regional office to visit it tomorrow. Reclaiming my time. I don't mean to shut you off, but I'm limited on how much time I have and I have another question that I want to ask. But maybe you could forward to me in writing an explanation of this office closure because it's become uh a little bit uh convoluted in the discussion.
▶ 2:26:20The other question that I have is the idea that uh reporting times when people call your office are they up are they down are they otherwise? There's an article here and I'd like to ask unanimous consent to submit it to uh the u to the record. It's titled Social Security Stops Reporting Call Wait Times and Other Metrics deliberately Hiding Data from the American People. Not at all.
▶ 2:26:49So, this article is not accurate. This article says that we change the metrics on the system to reveal the appropriate information to be factbased about how we are. Are you reporting the call wait times? We report the average ASA of weight times every day, right? And we report them.
▶ 2:27:14Now, what was taken down was what the longest wait time is to serve the public better, sir. Because in fact, if you call and there's a long wait time, we offer you the option to call you back. So, I I'll put this in the record, and Mr.
▶ 2:27:34Chairman, I don't know about you, but in my district offices, the calls that we get suggests that it takes a lot longer to get through to Social Security without Thank you for Thank you, Commissioner. I I now recognize Mr. Smucker for five Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Viniano, appreciate appreciate you being here. Um, I I want to just thank you for being willing to take on this role.
▶ 2:27:59I'm actually really excited to have you uh there as head of the Social Security Administration. I think you will bring to bear a lot of private sector experience. Uh and I love what I'm hearing in regards to how you're approaching uh the job because uh just this is a a massive bureaucracy that a lot of Americans rely on. My constituents just as every other individual here has constituents who do.
▶ 2:28:27Uh and it is one of the agencies that in my time u in Congress uh it's one of the top agencies that uh my constituents call about where they're they're frustrated with the service. They're not getting the answers uh they need. They're waiting a long time on the phones. And so uh I have a lot of hope that you'll bring all of that uh great experience to bear and we're going to see some real improvements and I think we're already starting to see that. So, and I'm really grateful that uh you'd take your time and and be willing to serve the country in that way.
▶ 2:28:57So, thank you. Um as the oversight committee here, we want to we want to be there with you to provide you with um whatever you may need to uh ensure that you have the right tools to be able to do that effectively. Um and to that end, just maybe a few questions. Um I know again I know you're new uh but I've you've you've mentioned your commitment to proving uh improving payment accuracy.
▶ 2:29:25Um and as you look at the current processes uh where do you see the greatest opportunities to uh prevent improper payments? Um and I know it can be both over and under but um you know there's too much you pay them and and find out later. How can we prevent that uh from happening before the payments go out? What opportunities do you see and how can we be helpful? Well, I think it's uh it's all at inception. You know, if you look at where most of this occurs, it's at inception.
▶ 2:29:54It doesn't happen after somebody's had 10 years of payments. Uh so, you know, building a little intelligence there that that does some other data checks, getting more outside uh information to bring in to get it right. uh you know I think I think there's a opportunity there.
▶ 2:30:13I think you know when you look at the numbers you know if you looked at uh you know the amount of receivables we have because of our current error rate you know maybe at the full year of 24 it was 24 billion. So I I look that we we make a big dent in that number going forward. I know you're looking to improve customer service. You're also looking uh at efficiencies. I hear you've already found some significant savings. Uh could you speak to that already?
▶ 2:30:43Well, I think you found so far I I I you know I think first of all um you know what happened uh is the ability to have your workforce be where they need to be to do the work is really important. I think um also the ability to have people in in the morning to answer the phone. If we don't start off early answering the phone, we're not going to get it right. Um I think we have a lot of opportunity around technology, you know, I think uh we have good assets.
▶ 2:31:14We got to make them easier to use, but that will all drive efficiency and uh you know, I think the overpayment issue is a big deal for us and we'll save a lot of money there, too. Sure. Thank you. And then I want to get back to something my friend Mr. Thompson uh just just said in regards to potential conversations around uh solveny.
▶ 2:31:35Um and I know we don't we want to ensure that every American we can make good on the promises that were made uh and make good in the promises made to people who've been paying into the system for uh for all of their lives. So nobody's trying to scare anyone. But but there is a math problem.
▶ 2:31:53And you just talked to the social security commissioner just came out recently with a within a report and the you know that that date when we run out of money in the trust fund and the incoming funds would no longer be enough to pay the benefits for that year isn't too far in the in in the future 20 like eight years from now I think. Uh and so um I've I would welcome Mr.
▶ 2:32:20Tom said mentioned we should have a real conversation uh about how we can ensure we can keep those promises and I think it's time we do that. The longer um we wait to have those conversations uh the harder it will be to ensure that we can keep paying benefits to people who really need them.
▶ 2:32:41So, um I don't have any much time left, but I don't know if you want to make a quick comment, but you know, hope to work with you, uh to ensure that we don't get to the point where we can't pay the benefits that people I uh I agree. I accepted this job understanding that I might be the last stop at the OK Corral.
▶ 2:32:59Uh and I intend for uh as I know the trustees do, and I think we've all been vocal that our intent is to have this have this problem solved. Thank you. And I believe the president's exactly in the same place. Thank Thank you. Now I call on Miss Aliotakus from New York for five minutes. Um thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you commissioner for being here. Hail from you hail from Brooklyn. So we're very proud of you and your achievements.
▶ 2:33:29Uh I think if you're hearing the common theme here today, it's really about customer service. How do we improve the customer experience for these senior citizens and disabled individuals who deserve they've deserve they've earned these benefits uh and they need to have that accessibility and so I too have experienced um issues in my office where we've worked with seniors who have been unable to access uh through the phone or they go in person they're told they're that they can't just walk in they
▶ 2:33:59need an appointment we need to address that issue so it's more a user are friendly. Um we've had issues and this was going back to the Biden administration. Certainly this has now fallen on your lap. Uh but they were waiting as long as two hours. Uh oftentimes they'd wait a long time then get disconnected. Uh I'm glad that you're you've implemented the call back feature. But still we need to address I think the staffing levels as it relates to customer service so that way when they call they actually get somebody on the phone.
▶ 2:34:26Um so I just wanted to know like if you could talk a little bit about the staffing levels today versus what they were a year ago. Where do you see them going? And as it relates specifically to customer service because I see that you're streamlining and you're actually seems that you're shifting thousands of employees to direct service. The reality is the reality is uh we have more people on the phones and more people in the field offices now than we did in January.
▶ 2:34:53And that's why we're able to say we're getting more done. you know, thousands a day, tens of thousands a day, more transactions done and why the disability number has come down to below a million and that will continue to drop on disability claims because we've moved more administrative functions out.
▶ 2:35:19You know, this issue about um field offices, we're not getting rid of field offices. What we did was send more people to them. This issue about regional offices, we streamline management so we can also think about it and we're bringing in a phone system that allows us to cover the country through it, not regionally.
▶ 2:35:43Um, so I I I I look forward to being here next year when we're having a completely different And I would say in your case, I can't wait to come to your uh area and go see a field office with you. Well, I have the perfect one for you to visit because uh one is less responsive than the other two. Okay, we'll go together. We would love to do a surprise visit uh with you. So, we look forward to that.
▶ 2:36:08And I thank you and I I'm glad you know I gave you the time to actually answer the question unlike some of my colleagues who who want to be critical but then not give you the opportunity to explain because we talk about staffing reductions. You're actually shifting more staff to where it needs to be which is the customer service where we again we're waiting hours under the Biden administration for someone to pick a call. You're improving that and I appreciate it but I still need to get the numbers.
▶ 2:36:31You know, look, the bottom bottom line is no Social Security recipient should have to call a member of Congress to get them to intervene to get a benefit that they've earned and deserve. And I look forward to my objective is to have you get less phone calls. Well, and I look forward to working and you know, look, we're happy to take the constituent work. That's not the issue. The issue is that they shouldn't have to call us to intervene. And I appreciate your dedication to that and look forward to working on it.
▶ 2:36:54And also, I just want to point out that the Republicans on this committee have worked very diligently to reduce the taxes that our seniors are going to pay on their social security. That is significant and and let it be clear that not one Democrat actually supported that. But we're going to be the ones who actually allow our seniors to keep more of their money in their pockets. Uh money again that they were entitled to, they deserve, they've earned, and the government should not be taxing them again on it. And I do look forward to working with you to increase the threshold that is exempt from taxation.
▶ 2:37:25You know, it's been 25,000 income for for individuals, 32,000 for married seniors. That has not changed in four decades. Nearly my entire lifetime that has been the case. Uh and we need to fix that to increase those thresholds so more of social security income is exempt. And yes, to Mr. Larson's point, we do need to find a way to pay for it. and I look forward to working in a bipartisan manner to do that.
▶ 2:37:50And I think there are some solutions that we've discussed that I think could be palatable for everyone uh and do the right thing on behalf of our senior citizens. So, thank you very much for being here. Thank you for your commitment. Let's try to get these uh wait times down. Lady I got to thank Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 2:38:11Before I recognize the gentle lady from Virgin Islands, I want to inform members that votes have been called on the House floor and I didn't call a recess after Miss Plask gets five minutes of questions and to call the committee back to order immediately following the vote series. I now recognize the gentle lady from Virgin Islands for five minutes. And Mr. Essis, this is why you're one of my best friends that you're letting me go before the votes are called and I don't have to come back after recess. I just appreciate that so much. I'm sure you'd want to come back. Well, just to be with you, of course.
▶ 2:38:40Um, the commissioner, I just want you to know I'm also from Brooklyn, so I have a great affinity for you. Grew up in Bushwick, went to school in downtown Brooklyn, so I completely um, go Mets. I will have to say to the people who are Yankees fans.
▶ 2:38:57Um, one of the things that I think in your just exchange I thought was very interesting was that um, in talking with the staff, understanding that yes, a people who were um, removed from those positions, a lot of them did go to customer service. Uh, I understand. Do you know?
▶ 2:39:17But my understanding is, and tell me if I'm incorrect, that the customer service area is actually more at at a higher pay than they were in their previous positions. And then is there a training process that they have to go through to be able to be in that customer service area? And how long is that? Yeah. Um, just as just to clarify, um, is your question is it a higher paying job that they went into? Yeah. Um, No.
▶ 2:39:48Uh, no, it's not. So, it's a parallel um a vertical that uh maybe in some cases it even wasn't even that horizontal, but they wanted to stay in the agency and recognize that there was opportunity for the long term. Okay. Um for them. Okay. Um long term meaning what in the organization to still have opportunity to grow over time. Okay.
▶ 2:40:12And then um do you know approximately how many people were what or what percentage of people that were removed from the other positions opted in to take that customer service position job? Uh you know I' I' I'd put it at uh you know call it between hundreds and a thousand. Okay. And what percentage is that of people that um were removed overall or let go or took the early retirement?
▶ 2:40:42It was all, you know, I think uh if if you think about the number of 59 to 52, which is kind of the number uh which gets you to 7,000, um I think maybe 300 were let go and 6,700, these are approximates, ma'am.
▶ 2:41:03um 6,700 uh accepted uh the voluntary retirement or or opted into a voluntary retirement plan? 6,700 opted into a voluntary retirement and approximately how many then went it was of the how many went to the customer service and is that that really has nothing to do with these two sets of numbers that I was talking to you about.
▶ 2:41:29That was another group that we redeployed from regional offices and from other staff jobs to give them actual operating jobs to help serve the public. Okay. This is not part of the No, ma'am. Okay. Um, one of the things I I concern myself with and as like all other members is their own constituency.
▶ 2:41:52And in the Virgin Islands, we have about over 20% of our population are social security beneficiaries where uh just so everyone knows, one of the blue areas around the world where we have people living a long time. Um, people live a long time in the Virgin Islands, which is a blessing. Um but we also have of course a lot of social security recipients.
▶ 2:42:16Um we of course can't drive to social security offices if those offices are closed and we do have connectivity issues in an island area. Have you thought about ways in which to mitigate that or how are we hoping if offices are closed um or a regional office is closed and have we closed any offices in the Virgin Islands? Um there's discussion of yes uh the office is being closed. There's no discussion what may about that ma'am.
▶ 2:42:46Okay. So I can count on you then that the office will still be there. Uh I think so. And and what I would have said to the other member is nothing will ever happen without uh you knowing it within your jurisdiction. That will never happen. You will not get surprised ahead of time. And I'd say that to every every member of Congress and Senate. Thank you.
▶ 2:43:12One of the other areas that of course um is within the purview of Congress and I'm hoping to get the support of other members of Congress in this. I know that President Biden's bill um talked about this when it passed the House was SSI, which I know is given throughout the country, but as you are probably aware, um people in the Virgin Islands as well as Puerto Rico and any of the territories do not receive that.
▶ 2:43:41Can we work with you on ways in which those individuals who are most needy might be able to receive that? Yes, ma'am. Thank you. I yield back. Well, I I just want to tell you that uh I had adopted the Bushwick leaders high school and worked closely with the principal in bringing technology to that high school. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank Thank you. As announced, the committee stands at recess until immediately following the vote series.
▶ 2:44:15How are you, sir? Congratulations.
▶ 3:29:12call the committee back to order. Um, we'll continue with our our questioning and uh a fivem minute conversation. So, uh, now I'd like to recognize uh, Mr. Gomez from California for five minutes. Thank you, chairman. Um, I was looking at uh, Secretary Biziano, I've been looking at your uh, resume. It's um, it's impressive.
▶ 3:29:34Executive at Cityroup, CEO at JP Morgan, CEO of First Data Corporation, and most recently CEO of Um, why do you think you were selected for those jobs? Can't your mic. I think your mic's still off.
▶ 3:30:05There we go. Sorry. I'm sorry. No worries. No worries. I think I have a uh history um in payment processing uh for the largest organizations uh and uh in technology and also in serving every American household as I did in my last job.
▶ 3:30:28So I think I'm I'm I'm pretty qualified for the things we do uh to deliver some experience in finance. Correct. I have some experience in finance. Yeah. And the the reason why is that there is a lack of trust among the American people and um and the fact that you were selected but also with this um commitment to social security in in general.
▶ 3:30:58Um, and I want to just kind of uh see if it was true that you had to Google the job description and you said, quote, "What the heck's the commissioner of social security?" Uh, true or false? Uh, what I said was that uh when I got a phone call to come see the president for the job. Yeah. Um, just true or false? Did you like really not know what the commissioner of social security was or is the responsib?
▶ 3:31:28I don't I don't think everybody knows what the comm commissioner of social security's job is. So I so I take it as you didn't know what the job was. I looked up the org structure. I looked up the reason why I'm asking the incumbent. I think it's very kind of listen um you're good you're good at filibustering. You speak very slow but um that makes a a good way of uh delaying the the questions. But I'm going to move forward. So, you really didn't know what the job was, so you agreed to do it.
▶ 3:31:57And then there were some other quotes that says, "I'm fundamentally a Doge p a Doge person." Um, true or false? Are you still a Doge person? I've been working on efficiency and quality in organizations my whole life. So, do you So, you don't do you stand by I'm fundamentally a Doge person. That that quote of yours. I'm here to make the place more efficient, deliver higher quality, eliminate fraud waste my time and reclaim my time. So, let's go.
▶ 3:32:25Let me go through the some of the the the the quotes from this administration. Right. You said I'm fundamentally a Doge person and Doge was um uh slated to cut one to two trillion dollars off the uh federal government, the fat. It hasn't found anything sort of that amount. You had commerce secretary Howard Lincoln. They he basically said, "Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother-in-law who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain." Right?
▶ 3:32:54Another example of somebody being out of touch, Senator Ron Widen, he's uh not in the administration, but he's a leading senator on the Republican side. It's a legal Ponzi scheme. Elon Musk said something similar. So there's a reason why people don't trust this administration when it comes to protecting social security because of those kind of comments.
▶ 3:33:20And that's one of the things I kind of want to focus on is that I don't think that this cabinet of individuals including yourself really cares about what happens to that program because it's not like you believe that it's not worthy of and that is something I find I find I find that insulting because there's tons of people that rely on social security.
▶ 3:33:50That one mispayment, it brings down like then all of a sudden they hit a financial calamity. And we also have a situation where we know that this program if a child loses their their parent that they're going to rely on I just told you my father was an orphan. So I I understand that your administration, the administration you're part of doesn't care about working people, but it's but you have to you have to build that trust again.
▶ 3:34:20And when we give you a chance to to uh take a different track to uh disown these comments, you won't do that. And that's what I think people are concerned about. They concerned that you're not really there to protect their retirement or their futures. With that, I yield Now recognize Miss Miller from West Virginia for five minutes. Thank you, Chairman Estes, and thank you, Mr. Vizingiano, for being here.
▶ 3:34:51And thank you for caring enough about the United States and the condition that many of our places are in disruption. Um, I appreciate your expertise and why you have volunteered your time and your expertise to help us.
▶ 3:35:13Rural communities like those in my home state of West Virginia already face significant barriers when it comes to accessing federal services. Long travel distance, no internet, limited public transportation, and fewer in-person resources all make it harder for folks to get the help they need.
▶ 3:35:35That's why it's so important that agencies like the Social Security Administration maintain a strong presence and remain accessible in rural areas. The announcement of the Social Security permanent remote site office closure in Logan, West Virginia, Logan County, has sparked concern among my constituents. Understandable.
▶ 3:35:59In a state where 41% of the households in West Virginia rely on Social Security, folks want reassurance that they'll continue to receive support that they've earned. I know that the SSA puts a lot of thought into decisions like these.
▶ 3:36:15Could you kind of walk us through how the agency is making sure that people in Logan County and rural areas like it continue to receive the same level of service and support even after site Yeah.
▶ 3:36:31Um I'm I'm uh not familiar with the Logan County site closure, ma'am, but I uh am familiar that uh and and that was the only thing I understand that we actually closed were hearing offices that were conference rooms that weren't being utilized.
▶ 3:36:51But having said that, and I I'm happy to come to West Virginia and go observe what we don't have and what we do have, but we have no intent to close field offices. And you know, if if we have a challenge in Logan County, we'll go figure it out, will you? Thank you. You would love the people that are there. They do talk. I'm positive of that. Yes.
▶ 3:37:16Can you tell me are there specific metrics or any kind of community feedback mechanisms that you would use to evaluate how these transitions are going to happen? Yeah. Well, uh I start off with a base case that field office is part of our strategy and uh I'm not working on one element of closing a field office or have any of that in my office right now.
▶ 3:37:42I'm working harder on bringing technology to field offices so the people in there could serve the public better than they do. Uh when you think about the information the people in our field offices have to get to. Uh sometimes it's challenged multiple systems can bringing that together in a way that they can serve the people faster. You know I like to look at the weight times not only on an average right now people average 22 minutes in a field office.
▶ 3:38:10uh if we could cut that down for the people who come to our field offices and we're going to look at everyone individually, we will. Um so I think field off is a large part of our strategy. Obviously, you know, you hear me talk about the internet and using it and keeping it up and making it available, but I recognize there's lots of people that don't use the internet and there's some people who want to use the phone to to uh communicate with us. will we will ensure we perform a lot better on the phone.
▶ 3:38:40And then lastly, you know, I think we have the field offices. Well, I appreciate that. And once you've in the hills and hollers in West Virginia and the beauty and the the water and the trees and the people, I think you'll understand why some of them still do need field offices and telephones because we don't have the availability of the internet in all places. But I appreciate what you're trying to do. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
▶ 3:39:08I yield Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Byer from Virginia for five minutes. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And ranking members Larson and and Davis, thank you for hanging in there. Uh, Commissioner, number one, I I read all 10 pages of your testimony carefully, and I agree with almost all of it. Um, so it to the extent that you can fulfill that vision, I think we'll all be pretty happy.
▶ 3:39:35Um, I also know that we maybe we have too much constituent service work with Social Security, but our local office is terrific. Um, they take really good care of us. Um, which sort of leads me to my my concern. I I did call I have called the 800 number twice this spring and got after five minutes of voicemail hell, I finally got told it was be 120 minutes before anyone could hang talk to me. the first time it just hung up.
▶ 3:40:00So, um the notion that it was a 19-minute average last fiscal year, um my experience hasn't doesn't match that, but I definitely want your vision of 12 minutes to to be real. Um to that end, I know you have done a lot of leadership.
▶ 3:40:17you know JP Morgan um the data what was the the data first data ferve and that you were ranked one of the highest paid CEOs in Wall Street but one of the things and I'm quoting from Wikipedia so sources I wouldn't believe everything I read well they talked about anywhere your your dictatorial and old-fashioned management style that focused on profit rather than people well obviously you're in a job that's not about profit that's be totally
▶ 3:40:47about people. But I'm two weeks ago my my Wikipedia page didn't say that. So, uh, anyway, I I mean, go. Well, I don't really pay attention to Wikipedia. In any case, my my hope, my concern is that um when my last visit our social security office, there was an enormous amount of anxiety about it turning into a toxic work environment because of the 7,000 people, the one in eight that had been fired.
▶ 3:41:15Um, I'd love to know what your approach is going to be to make sure that your people that you're depending on to fulfill all these grand visions actually feels valued and approved and lifted up uh treasured by you and this administration rather than seen as chaff and stuff to be gotten rid of. I think uh tone at the top matters a lot.
▶ 3:41:37Uh I I have said in my oral testimony today that Social Security Administration for the past three years has had the lowest uh in the viewpoint study on 18 of the largest federal agencies. That needs to change. That will change by making the people's jobs better.
▶ 3:42:02they'll change by having uh their own self-esteem raised up in that we perform better for the American public. So, I I'm I'm one of my personal goals is have the highest motivated workforce we have. Uh and I think it's a darn good workforce and I'm 100% behind them. Well, I appreciate that you want to use that metric because I think we we really appreciate that that that annual survey and coming up would be a great measure.
▶ 3:42:31To that end though, one of the things I'm concerned about is that um you've gotten rid of the public reporting of processing times, call weight times, and other performance metrics. You know, I know as a good leader manager, you That's not accurate, sir. Oh, processing times are up there. Call average call weight times up there. We took down a number and it was the number that you referred to what the longest wait time is.
▶ 3:42:58And that's because 42% of the calls if you call in and you don't need to talk to a rep will in fact a get answered through technology. And then the rest of the calls when you got that whatever you were told 90 minutes or an hour you had you had the option or today you have the option to say can you call me back in that time and we call people back that.
▶ 3:43:27So I think it's a discouraging number to tell somebody they have to wait 190 minutes or whatever it is or 190 or 90 if in fact 42% of the time the system can answer the question and the other time we're going to call them back if they call in.
▶ 3:43:45So if we put that number out, we're discouraging them from calling where 42% of the time it'll get answered instantaneously and the other time within 21 seconds will give them a time that we'll call them back. So that's why that was taken down. And I will tell you, as I said in my testimony, our statistics right now with less staffing are outperforming the statistics of January and significantly outperforming the statistics of last year.
▶ 3:44:16So those are facts, sir. Okay. I I I want that to be true and I look forward to seeing all the statistics that you can possibly post. Please keep posting everything so that we not only can we hold you accountable, but we can also be encouraged by the progress that you make. Thank you, sir. Mr. Jeremy, yield back. Thank you. Uh, I now met recognize Mr. Swisy from New York for five minutes. Okay. Mr. Bisnado, congratulations to being confirmed. Uh, it's nice to meet you in person. We had talked to each other on the phone before you got confirmed.
▶ 3:44:46I want to congratulate you again. Uh, I looked at your your biography in your testimony where you talked about the fact that your grandfather was born in Italy and served in World War I for America. My grandfather did the same thing. But my grandfather went back to Italy and married my grandmother and got her pregnant and he came back over to work. And then my father immigrated to America with my grandmother years after that. But my father, like your father, served in World War II as well.
▶ 3:45:12In your in your uh opening, you talked about how your grandfather died with 15 children in 1937. Now, but they didn't have social security then, right? Or he was blind. No. Uh they didn't have it in 37. and they had in 40 and my father would have been in the first eligible class 39 actually my father would have been in the first eligible class because he was an orphan. So did did he get social security? Do you know or your family get it?
▶ 3:45:39Uh my grandfather collected disability because he was blind the one who fought in the army and uh you know I believe my father at some point uh got it also. Yeah. Well, listen, congratulations on your great uh American success story and uh on now achieving this very important position after being very successful in the private sector. And you know, if we listen to the the Republicans and the Democrats up here, everybody's concerned about Social Security. Everybody thinks it's the it's the most important program in America. That's why the president said he doesn't want to cut Social Security.
▶ 3:46:10And everybody's concerned about the weight times. Everybody's cons, you know, I'm not saying you're only there for two months. It's not your fault that the weight times are bad. But, you know, many on on on the other side are saying, "Hey, great job. You're going to make it more efficient." A lot of people on this side are saying, "Hey, we're worried that they're trying to dismantle social security." So, they'll say it's broken and then they can argue that we have to privatize it. So, why don't why don't you just disabuse us of that mo notion and uh why don't you tell us you talked about 12 minutes.
▶ 3:46:40When do you want the 12 minutes to happen? It's let's say you come back here next year. What will the what will the wait time what's your goal for the wait time for a year from now? I well I think uh the the goal for this fiscal year is coming up 26 is 12 minutes. Uh I don't think that's satisfactory. I think it's a place to start. It'll be an all-time number for two decades you haven't hit 12 minutes.
▶ 3:47:06And the year prior, if you want to look at 24, you know, uh it was it was significantly more. Right. So this I I would you want to get down to 12 minutes by by uh October 1st of this year, you're saying, or you're saying by uh No, I think that's the average that'll be the average number for the year. Um it's highly possible. Fourth quarter of the year, it's nine minutes and it started out higher. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
▶ 3:47:36But right now, I just kind of want to be clear right now, you know, if you look at I think uh April and then you look at May that that performed more like, you know, 16 minutes. Well, I'm sure you're making progress already. I just want to say I just want to try and set some goals and try and see what you're thinking. Well, what I'm thinking is that we should get to three minutes at some point during this tenure here. So, over over the next by the by 2028, you want to get to to three minutes? Yeah, that would be great. Fantastic.
▶ 3:48:06And so, just so you know, I'm not saying this to criticize you. You're new to the job, but just so you know, I talked to my my case workers in my office. We have about 30 social security cases going at a time. And cases that, this is what they gave to me. Cases that require a fix but are relatively simple, like address changes, are taking 20 32 days where they used to take 22 days. They're taking 32 days, now they used to take 22 days.
▶ 3:48:32Cases that are hard to fix, like correcting a mistake in a benefit amount, are taking 50 days. They used to take 39 days. Cases that are justformational or setting an appointment, which can be taken care of at the local field office, are taking the same amount of time. It's common for people to have to change their bank account info. That used to take about two weeks to go through. More recently, one starting in March took 29 days. People's applications to start benefits sometimes get stuck in processing.
▶ 3:49:01This is pure bureaucracy stuck, not any kind of other problem. The average time to fix that last year was 20 days. In the last few months, it's averaged 37 days. People on disability often need their benefit amount recalculated because of an error or a change in circumstance. This is an expert sort of thing at the processing centers and it takes a bit to go through. Usually in the past, it has taken two weeks to a month, although one case made it to 88 days. An open case now is at 112 days and counting.
▶ 3:49:30And they give me some more examples about logging in. And oh, this is a good one. I case example, one month wait to reset an online login amidst social security administration's current push to move everyone to online services instead of phone or in person. Ian has been working with a constituent, I'm not going to tell you her name, an 89year-old woman who was having trouble with her online login and needed social security to reset it.
▶ 3:49:57He shared all the info with Social Security Administration on May 27th and hasn't had any progress since. So, you know, you talk about how most of the people are able to do online stuff, but you know, you got an 89 year old lady, you're trying to get her to go online, but you're working with the staff to get them to sign in. We got to figure out how to get it so that they're responsive because all the all the members of Congress are dealing with this, not just me. This is and I know you're listen you got the ability, you got the desire, you got the record of doing this.
▶ 3:50:27We thank you for your public service and we wish you great success in serving the people of our country. And I'm available for anything you ever need. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Um I' I'd like to like to thank you personally, Commissioner Vizinano, uh for appearing before us today, spending all your time and waiting out through our vote period.
▶ 3:50:46and and I appreciate the uh all of the members who uh participate throughout the the hearing and uh obviously as you can tell from our comments that there's a there's a lot of interest on both Republicans and Democrats parts of of making sure that uh you're successful in your job which makes it better for Americans through that process. Mr.
▶ 3:51:04Chairman, I'm going to speak with everybody from Kansas and Nebraska and everybody else on this stand and tell them it's bizigno So please be advised that members have two weeks to submit written questions to be to to answer later in writing. Uh these questions and your answers may be part of the formal hearing record. With that, the subcommittee stands adjourned.