▶ 0:08:03The subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to assess the budgetary posture and strategic direction of the State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism for fiscal year 2026. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Today we convene to do conduct oversight of the State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism and review its budgetary posture and strategic priorities for fiscal year 2026.
▶ 0:08:30I want to thank our witness, acting coordinator for counterterrorism, Gregory Leervo, for appearing before us today. The Bureau of Counterterrorism is a vital arm of America's national security strategy. It plays a leading role in coordinating US counterterrorism policy, engaging foreign partners to disrupt threats before they reach our shores, and supporting global efforts to confront terrorism in all its forms.
▶ 0:08:57From its role in special operations to diplomatic engagement to training programs, the bureau is on the front lines of protecting the American people. As terrorism threats are becoming more diffuse, adaptive, and globallyworked, we must ensure the bureau is equipped to respond with agility, efficiency, and strategic foresight in the Middle East.
▶ 0:09:19This means confronting the malign influence of Iranbacked proxy groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis while sustaining pressure on ISIS, whose presence in the region remains a serious concern. And it is with this background that we examine the Bureau of Counterterrorism budget. During this hearing today, we'll assess how the Bureau is delivering measurable security dividends for US taxpayers through its foreign assistance programming, particularly through its anti-terrorism assistance and the worldwide security program.
▶ 0:09:50We will also explore the extent to which the budget uh the bureau's budget requests will enable personnel to adapt to new geopolitical threats while maintaining coordination across the inter agency and international partners. We must also consider whether the State Department's reorganization has impacted outcomes and how the bureau is responding to its expanded scope.
▶ 0:10:13We must determine if the State Department has the tools, authorities, and structure to preserve its capacity to respond to regional complexities. Finally, I want to emphasize that the effective counterterrorism policy demands a strong partnership between Congress and the department that is grounded in transparency, oversight, and shared strategic vision.
▶ 0:10:34As we move toward reauthorization and review of the department's fiscal year 2026 plan, this subcommittee is committed to ensuring that the Bureau of Counterterrorism has the resources and guidance it needs to remain a global leader in combating our world's most dangerous threats. Mr. Leero, we look forward to your testimony and to a robust discussion of how we can work together to safeguard the United States and our allies in an increasingly complex threat environment.
▶ 0:11:04With that, I now recognize the ranking member from Florida, Congresswoman Sheila Sherless McCormack, for five minutes for her opening statement.
▶ 0:11:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening today's hearing on the State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism. I want to thank acting coordinator Lee Gro for being here today and for your many years of public service. For decades, the State Department CT bureau has worked hand inand with our allies and partners to disrupt terrorist networks, prevent radicalization, and support the capacity of governments around the world to do the same.
▶ 0:11:39It is through the this vital work that we have built the international coalition expertise and tools that help keep Americans safe around the world. Yet, this administration has chosen to gut it all. On July 11th, the Trump administration issued rifts orders to over 1,300 State Department employees. This included numerous CT experts across the department.
▶ 0:12:03Among those fired was the entire team working on the counter violent extremist or CVE. This office worked on prevented rad radicalization before it took hold. Today's global terrorist threats remain significant and we need to do we need the best people working on the mitigation and prevention work. This this administration also gutted the bureau of population refugees and migration known as PRM.
▶ 0:12:31For decades, PRM has supported refugee and provided humanitarian assistance around the world, helping to alleviate conflict, displacement, and poverty that terrorist groups exploit. The administration didn't stop there. It also gutted the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.
▶ 0:12:50And the vast majority of the department's programs aimed at protecting the rights of individuals who are marginalized and may feel they have no other choice than to turn to the extreme to extremism to address their grievances. Then there's the dismantling of USID, an agency that for decades worked in some of the world's most volatile regions to provide life-saving assistance and build livelihoods. This administration's promise of life-saving assistance would continue.
▶ 0:13:21Just weeks later, The Atlantic reported that the administration ordered over 500 metric tons of emergency food to be incinerated rather than delivering it to the starving populations who need it. How do we think that headline plays with the terrorist groups seeking to recruit and the most vulnerable? Compare that to from the American people.
▶ 0:13:43The administration's inability to grasp let alone appropriate respond to counterterrorism needs all needs needs is also apparent in the FY26 budget request. For example, the budget request makes no mention of Yemen anywhere. despite the the significant threats posed by Houthi rebels. In fact, the Trump administration cuts funds to Yemen, including food assistance.
▶ 0:14:07When over 17 million people in Yemen are food insecure as they cut programs and offices working to address the root causes of extremes, it is clear that this administration lacks the foresight, focus, and common sense necessary to combat terrorism effectively. I am far less concerned about how your organization chart looks than about your workforce being ready, staffed, and trained to complete its mission with experts. We have to remember that it what is at stake here.
▶ 0:14:37This is about our national security and protecting American interest and the American people from terrorists and violent extremists. We must address these threats with clear eyes and effective policy. Effective CT workers cannot succeed with political motivated purges, baseless budgets, and foreign assistant cuts and an empty toolbox. Mr.
▶ 0:15:01Logo, I look forward to your testimony and to your understanding on how these conditions will better the bureau and help it get to its mission. Thank you so much for being here. I yield back.
▶ 0:15:13I thank the ranking member for a statement. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have the acting coordinator for counterterrorism, Gregory Legero, before us today. Your full statements will be made part of the record, and I'll ask that you keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for member questions. I now recognize Mr.
▶ 0:15:37Legero for an opening Chairman Lawler, Ranking Member Sherphilis McCormack, members of this esteemed subcommittee, good afternoon and thank you for inviting me today to testify on how the State Department's counterterrorism bureau is addressing counterterrorism threats, supporting key diplomatic initiatives, and coordinating across the department and within the inter agency.
▶ 0:16:03The Trump administration is committed to preventing a major attack on the homeland and has made tremendous progress in advancing safety and security at home and abroad by implementing peace through strength. Our focus is on destroying and disrupting terrorist networks, holding state sponsors accountable, securing our borders, and degrading the capacity of terrorist groups that threaten the United States.
▶ 0:16:27The Trump administration's approach to counterterrorism also recognizes that America first does not mean America alone. We have strong counterterrorism partnerships across the globe with a focus on proper burden sharing from partners with shared security interests. When we face shared threats, we should naturally share burden. The terrorist threats we face today are dramatically different than what we faced following the September 11th, 2001 attacks.
▶ 0:16:55Today, motivations driving terrorism are varied and often hard to define. In addition to violent salifism, anti-semitism, and anti-government animists are major factors in today's threat environment. ISIS and al-Qaeda continue to inspire their followers across the globe to conduct attacks in their home countries, including the United States and across Europe. The New Year's Day attack in New Orleans, which killed 14 and injured many others, was a stark reminder of ISIS reach.
▶ 0:17:25In addition, although Iran has been greatly weakened, Thran and its terrorist proxies, including the Houthis, Hisbala, and Hamas, continue to destabilize the Middle East and beyond. Other jihadist groups such as the south and central Asia-based ISIS Horusan network continues to be a part of the global jihadi network. Terrorist activity presents a rising threat in our hemisphere.
▶ 0:17:51Transnational cartels and gangs such as those in Mexico and Venezuela devastate their communities and present a direct threat to US security. The Trump administration is cleareyed and focused on identifying these threats and using all means necessary to eliminate them. The administration has used military tools decisively when necessary against terrorist groups threatening the United States.
▶ 0:18:16This includes successful strikes against ISIS Somalia leaders, against ISIS second command in Iraq, and several significant figures of harass al-Qaeda's branch in Syria. Consistent with our congressional mandate, the department's counterterrorism bureau plays a critical role in developing, implementing, and coordinating the administration's counterterrorism approach to tackle terrorist travel before violent actors reach our borders.
▶ 0:18:42We work with countries to bolster their visa regimes, expand information sharing on travelers of concern so that we can enhance our terrorist watch list and strengthen border screening systems and practices to detect and deter illegal migration and terrorist travel. Our designations authorities allow us to cut off resources to dangerous groups.
▶ 0:19:04Secretary Rubio has designated 10 cartels and gangs in the Western Hemisphere as terrorist organizations, giving our law enforcement partners new authorities and tools to address those dangerous threats. We are pleased to see Canada and numerous Latin American and Caribbean partners designate the Venezuelan-based transnational cartel Trend Aaragua as a terrorist Pursuant to the president's executive order of June 30th on Syria, the secretary
▶ 0:19:34revoked the foreign terror organization designation of Hayat Takir al-Sham and the administration removed other sanctions to facilitate a prosperous and peaceful Syria. We will remain laser focused to ensure that ISIS does not reemerge to threaten US interests and that Iran does not destabilize the new Syrian government through its terrorist proxies.
▶ 0:19:58We will continue to ensure the ISIS detention facilities and displaced person camps in northeast Syria do not pose a threat to the United States or our partners. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity to testify today on this important topic, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:20:14Thank you, Mr. Lero. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Through the reorganization of the Bureau of Counterterrorism outside of the regional bureaus and under the under secretary for international security, have there been any changes to the bureau's core mission and functions? Thank you for the question, Mr.
▶ 0:20:38Our ability to carry forward the counterterrorism mission of the bureau at the State Department is is absolutely intact and is moving forward. We have all the authorities and all the resources that we need to advance the president's agenda to keep America safe and secure.
▶ 0:20:54The move into the under secretary for security, the T family if you will, will allow us to work together with partners in the department who share similar funding streams and to make sure that we complement rather than overlap on key functions.
▶ 0:21:12So to that end, what new policy tools or structural advantages has the bureau gained through this move and how is uh CT leveraging its new placement uh to drive integrated responses to global terrorism?
▶ 0:21:27We have our statutory responsibility, Mr. Chairman, to coordinate in the department, in the agency, in the inter agency and also with diplomacy with our partners overseas. All of that remains as well as our capacity to recommend designations for foreign terror organizations when appropriate as we have uh very um assertively in this administration with uh over 10 uh foreign terror organizations designated since January 20th.
▶ 0:21:57Again, all of those functions remain intact and actually are I think enhanced going back to where we are in the under secretary for security, the T family, if you will. We have uh again the opportunity to uh be a a lot more strategic and how we allocate resources and taxpayer dollars working with our our bureaus from the political military family also INL the narcotics and law enforcement bureau as well as uh those in non-prololiferation
▶ 0:22:29oftent times when we're working with terror working on terrorist issues in a given country all of those bureaus have uh interests or funding streams and we we've started our staff meetings. We're consulting uh daily in a way that we haven't done previously and I can tell you it's already made a big difference.
▶ 0:22:46Does the Bureau of Counterterrorism have sufficient budgetary flexibility within NATO accounts to respond quickly to new threats such as the emergence of new terrorist networks or cyberl financing
▶ 0:23:02Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. And I believe that the streamlining of the reorganization will help us to think more strategically and to act with a greater focus on our core mission to keep America safe.
▶ 0:23:16Following up, would additional reprogramming authorities or surge uh mechanisms help the bureau respond to unanticipated threats in fiscal year 26 and beyond?
▶ 0:23:28Mr. Chairman, I would take that back to my uh colleagues at the department. Uh I believe that our resources and our authorities are sufficient at this time, but welcome any any feedback or proposals you or the committee may have. Thank you. Can you elaborate on how robust funding for the Bureau of Counterterrorism helps generate goodwill from partner governments on other US
▶ 0:23:53Absolutely. That's a a great question. For example, with the Philippines, an area where of the world where there's a lot of strategic competition, we have a vigorous and comprehensive program with the Philippine government to address terrorist threats in that country. And that in turn builds trust, of course, because we're effective on that.
▶ 0:24:20and we have uh a broader set of strategic equities with the Philippine government that uh our effectiveness and our partnership on shared interests helps to advance. And can you share how the bureau leverages programmatic funding to encourage counterterrorism burden sharing and broader foreign policy
▶ 0:24:43Absolutely. Uh last month I was in Madrid to lead our delegation to the defeat ISIS coalition political directors meeting. We had about 30 members of the defeat ISIS coalition there at an event hosted by the Spanish government.
▶ 0:25:01We talked a lot about Syria which I know is a very important issue for this committee certainly for for the We talked about burden sharing at the in terms of ma maintaining the camps for displaced persons in northeast Syria and we've made a lot of progress with respect to that from our European counterparts including in Germany and the United Kingdom and France.
▶ 0:25:25We've under the president's direction that uh sharing uh risk means sharing burden and that also America first does not mean America alone and our partnerships are based on mutual interest but also that we make sure that our partners understand they must bring resources to the table. Last question.
▶ 0:25:49With new funding, how will CT bureau determine priority regions or countries for counterterrorism programs and broader
▶ 0:25:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have an annual strategic exercise in September where the bureau reviews the resources that have been allocated to us and the strategic priorities of the And in in the case of the upcoming year, I expect us to focus heavily on Central Asia because of ISIS Horusan and the threat that ISIS Horson continues to pose to the United States and our partners in the region as well as in Europe,
▶ 0:26:29Iran and its terrorist proxies and West Africa as well as the Western Hemisphere. given our new focus and aggressive focus on addressing the terror wrought by cartels.
▶ 0:26:44Appreciate it. My time has expired. I now recognize Representative Sherman for five minutes.
▶ 0:26:50Thank you. Well, perhaps one of the most uh vivid examples of terrorism was on October Um we're all familiar with Hamas and its uh one of its partners is Islamic Jihad. The third largest uh terrorist organization in Gaza was the popular resistance committees who fully participated in the terrorist attacks of October 7th.
▶ 0:27:18For example, the popular resistance committees uh released a propaganda video showing a severely injured civilian uh oad uh Yam Yamali who uh the group took hostage on October 7th and who tragically died in captivity. Now these popular resistance committees were formed during the second inifat.
▶ 0:27:44They've been involved in bombings of US diplomatic convoy traveling to meet uh Palestinian fullbride candidates and for killing three Americans. And yet with all that the popular resistance committees of Gaza have yet to be designated as a terrorist last Congress, uh the this committee, the full committee, unanimously passed my legislation to finally sanction these
▶ 0:28:14this group. Um can you commit to designating the Popular Resistance Committees of Gaza as either a foreign terrorist organization or a specially designated global terrorist? Congressman Sherman, thank you for your question and thank you for your support of the administration on addressing the scourge of terrorism in the Middle East and in particular with respect to uh Hamas and the terror it has wrought since October 7th, 2023.
▶ 0:28:45With respect to the Popular Resistance Committee, the department is committed to reviewing the Popular Resistance Committee in Gaza for a potential terrorist designation. As with all sanctions, we re review all source information, including engaging with our foreign partners to assess what is credible, sound evidence to demonstrate that the organization meets the stat.
▶ 0:29:07How soon can we count on that review being done? They've been a terrorist organization for a couple decades now. Your predecessors have just not focused on this. Uh, can you get back to us in a
▶ 0:29:20I commit to getting back to you as soon as possible. Uh, Congressman Sherman, the uh, secretary is fully committed to taking appropriate steps against foreign groups. And I
▶ 0:29:29I know how committed you are, and I look forward to hearing from you within a month. Uh, we've seen the Voice of America and the Agency for Global Media Gutted uh, by this administration. Uh the effect of that is to seed uh the war for public opinion and hearts and minds to some of the mo worst extremist terrorist groups uh in the world.
▶ 0:29:54Now, the 911 commission, and I was here for that back then, said that if we're going to deal with terrorism, we have to not only advance development and good governance and opportunity, uh, but that we have to reach out to communities around uh around the world with with the truth.
▶ 0:30:15Um, does it undermine your efforts uh to stop terrorism around the world that the terrorists put out their and uh the truth spot has been turned Thank you, Congressman Sherman.
▶ 0:30:38I am fully confident that the administration and that our Bureau of Counterterrorism has the resources it needs to advance the president's mission of keeping America safe and secure and to working with partners and building partnerships around the world to prevent terrorist attacks against the United
▶ 0:30:59Not just concerned about the terrorism that happens under your watch. The propagandized teenagers of today will be the terrorists of tomorrow. This administration will be gone. Some of us will be gone. What are you doing to make sure that the 12 and 14 year olds of today are not the terrorists of a decade from now?
▶ 0:31:23And in particular, does it make sense to seed the entire communication system to the terrorist propaganda? Uh, Congressman Sherman, I don't we're not seeding any any uh
▶ 0:31:37when you completely eliminate public broadcasting and communications, uh, you can sit in Washington and think you're doing something, but if you're not communicating with the places where future terrorists might live, you've seated the you've seated the the ground.
▶ 0:31:54We think that freedom of press and a free media is the best way to communicate and counter. Sir, sir, if I can interrupt, there's a lot of places where there is no free media. There is no free media in Iran and you stop broadcasting in Farsy.
▶ 0:32:11So, if you think that the private sector is going to get truth to the 12 and 15 and 20 year olds of uh in living in places where there is no free press, uh you simply don't understand uh the press op the the listening ship opportunities of people in Iran and other places. Is there a question?
▶ 0:32:33What are we going to do to make sure that those who live in countries where there is no free press hear the truth or won't they become terrorists when they hear the lies of the of the terrorist
▶ 0:32:46We continue to to advance partnerships around the world and we continue we continue to support free press not just from our country but from around the world including in Europe. those messages get through to uh people all over the world, Congressman, and including to places where uh our adversaries or people who attempt to stifle freedom of speech. And history has shown that certainly history shown that in the Cold War, we were able to get through and I understand what you're saying, Mr. M.
▶ 0:33:16Congressman Sherman, about the the government apparatus. If I
▶ 0:33:21history shows us the need for broadcasting. The Berlin Wall came down because of Radio Free Europe as much as anything and I yield back.
▶ 0:33:30Mr. Sherman, Congressman Sherman, the issue is whether or not the people can hear the message and and we believe that people will hear the message from the Trump administration. People will hear the message from a free media that has freedom of speech to communicate the values that matter uh to to to uh address violent extremism.
▶ 0:33:52Gentlemen's time has expired. I now recognize Representative Kaine for 5
▶ 0:33:57Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Lero, for being here today. As Congress systematically reviews the work that's being accomplished at the State Department, I want to speak with you about the important work that the department is doing to counter terrorism around the globe. I am encouraged to hear about the restructuring of the Bureau of Counterterrorism under the new international security family.
▶ 0:34:21This rightly reflects the important role of your bureau in ensuring international efforts are aligned in countering terrorism. In light of recent terror activity from both Hamas and Hezbollah, can you discuss how this new structure will strengthen America's efforts to counter terrorism in the Middle East?
▶ 0:34:41Thank you, Congressman Keane, for your question. We are fully confident that the restructuring, the streamlining of the Bureau of Counterterrorism as well as the State Department broadly will enable us to address issues on a strategic level with more proper deliberation and also in the event of a tactical situation where we need to respond quickly, we'll be able to do so
▶ 0:35:11in a way that safeguards American interests. The other thing I just want to say is that the administration's counterterrorism uh team from the State Department also at the White House with Dr. Gorka and with uh our colleagues at the Department of Defense, Treasury and the entire inter agency in this administration is absolutely first rate. We're off to a very strong start. I think the reorganization is going to empower us to advance America's interests in keeping the country safer and secure.
▶ 0:35:40And what mechanisms does the CT bureau use to partner with America's allies in the Middle East and around the world to combat terrorism? We have a variety of fora. Uh I mentioned the defeat ISIS coalition which is a a a forum that the counterterrorism bureau as a matter of diplomacy uh engages takes a leadership uh role in engaging.
▶ 0:36:03We also have uh the law enforcement coordination group and a variety of other venues where we engage partners in the Middle East region but also our European partners or I would say uh like-minded partners where we have shared interests and we're willing to share burden in confronting terrorist threats. We've engaged in particular in the Western Hemisphere in confronting Hamas and Hisba and the IRGC.
▶ 0:36:28One of our diplomatic efforts yielded results a couple months ago when Paraguay designated the IRGC as a terrorist organization. It's that kind of diplomacy that the CT bureau leads and that is uh effectively uh countering Iran and its terrorist proxies
▶ 0:36:44and terrorist attacks are increasingly taking digital form through cyber terrorism. Can you discuss how the CT bureau is addressing this increasingly prevalent form of terrorism and what steps Congress can take to support this?
▶ 0:37:00That's a a great question, Congressman, and it relates back to the wisdom to move the counterterrorism bureau into the under secretariat for security where colleagues alongside the Bureau of Counterterrorism will be able to get at emerging technology, emerging threats, things that, you know, 20 years ago we weren't focused on drones. we are now.
▶ 0:37:25But of course, there's other technology that's developing as you as you mentioned and we'll be able to do that in the security bureau, the T family of un of bureaus to to get at that and stay ahead of it instead of be reactive to new technology that may be behind uh a terrorist attack
▶ 0:37:44and and undersea cable infrastructure has increasingly become a target of terrorist attacks and by other bad actors. How is the CT bureau ensuring important undersea cable infrastructure is protected?
▶ 0:37:59Congressman, we have a coordinating role pursuant to our statute and we work with the inter agency that includes the department of defense and the coast guard, other agencies that have the technical and operational capacity to confront those threats. We also work with the intelligence community and in our coordinating function we are able to observe and help the inter agency respond to uh threats that uh globally and that would include uh the the uh the potential threats you're you're
▶ 0:38:30Thank you Mr. Lero and yield back.
▶ 0:38:35Thank you representative Kenna. Now recognize Representative Schneider for five minutes.
▶ 0:38:40Uh thank you Mr. chairman and uh Mr. Jero, let me just start by thanking you for your service. How long have you been with the State Department?
▶ 0:38:4725 years, sir.
▶ 0:38:48So, it's a long time and I'm just looking at the the long list of awards you've received and uh you and so many others who have committed their careers to protecting our country, advancing our our interests, and keeping Americans safe around the world. We all owe a great debt to you and and uh everyone else who has uh worked in in in that department in in the last 25 years, which is really the 21st century. We're a quarter of the way through the threat getting worse, getting better, staying the same.
▶ 0:39:18How would you overall rate it, Congressman? Thank you for your kind words. Um and with respect to the threats today, I would say just different. um the threats that we faced on September 11th, 2001, obviously uh a day that changed the course of American world history. Um the threats that we're looking at today, uh there is still of course uh the the glo global jihadi network, but there's other threats.
▶ 0:39:48There's a rise of anti-semitism, for example. There's also just in the way that attacks are carried out. If you look at what happened in New Orleans, it's not as if uh always uh there's a command and control element to someone who's carried out an attack, but there's inspiration.
▶ 0:40:06That inspiration often comes from the internet, often comes from some kind of a chat room and and understanding that while we also are of course mindful of freedom of speech and freedom of expression and and not losing our values there, making sure we can get at that is
▶ 0:40:23I apologize. I'm going to retake my time just because we have so much to talk about, but I I think you're right. It was a dangerous world when you started. It's a dangerous world today. The threats are constantly changing. Uh the Bureau of Counterterrorism exists because we learned the hard way what happens when we leave coordination chance. We created the structure to ensure that someone somewhere had the clear mandate to prevent the next attack before it happens. The mission is not theoretical. It's very real.
▶ 0:40:52It's not regional. It's global. And it's not optional. It is essential. I find it alarming and frankly revealing that the Trump administration is moving with such speed to dismantle the bureau's independence, gut its capacity, and fold its responsibilities into regional desks that are already overstretched. In the name of reform and modernization, the administration is dismantling capabilities and sherking responsibilities. There's no real vision, no real strategy. And as I see it, there is no real plan for success.
▶ 0:41:23Your bureau provides the connective tissues across our national security agencies between the State Department, the IC, DHS, Treasury, and our partners around the world. When a terrorist plot emerges in West Africa, but the funding traces back to the Gulf or Central Asia, and the online radicalization was happening in Europe, who and how do we connect those dots? Who and how do we coordinate the US response across the region's tools and timelines? A big part of that is INR.
▶ 0:41:53But the bureau, your bureau, also has a central role to play. I want to say this as bluntly as I can. This administration is not behaving like it takes a threat of terrorism seriously. Dismantling our counterterrorism architecture during a moment of resurgent radicalization and clear threats to the homeland around the world and as you noted including at home is an act of strategic negligence. Mr. Jero, I don't doubt your commitment. I am grateful for your service. But leadership in a moment like this requires more than presence.
▶ 0:42:23It requires push back. It requires telling the truth up the chain even when it's inconvenient. So I want to hear not just how you'll implement whatever structure you're given. I want to hear whether you believe that structure serves the mission and whether you're willing to fight for it. We cannot let institutional memory be erased. We cannot allow the strategic capacity of the United States government to be hollowed hollowed out behind closed doors when we pretend everything is just proceeding like normal. So, Mr.
▶ 0:42:50McGo, I I threw a lot at you, but I would love to hear your thoughts and response.
▶ 0:42:56Thank you, Congressman. I am fully confident that the restructure, we went from a height of 14 offices in the Bureau of Counterterrorism. We've restructured to make things move more quickly, to move at the speed of relevance and also again as a matter of tactical response. We are going to be in a position working alongside our regional bureaus. Absolutely.
▶ 0:43:20and working within the T family, the under secretariat for security policy to respond quickly and also to fulfill our coordinating role as provided in statute within the inter agency within our partner with our diplomatic partners to keep America safe and secure.
▶ 0:43:37I'm out of time, but I will follow up with uh written questions because I want to understand examples, specific examples how we've strengthened capacities rather than reduced or eliminated cap capacities and capabilities. Mr. Sherman talked about a perfect example losing the ability to communicate in country where the message is all going to be from bad regimes like Iran. We've lost our voice and ability to counter as they develop young people who are going to be the terrorists of tomorrow.
▶ 0:44:03We need to be working and fighting hard every single day to develop those who are going to be the leaders of tomorrow that bring countries like Iran into the family of nations and create a more peaceful uh and prosperous future for us all. I yield back. I thank the representative from Illinois. I now recognize myself for a second round of questioning. Mr.
▶ 0:44:24Legerfa, how does CT coordinate with other agencies and embassies to ensure its diplomatic and programming efforts complement US efforts on great power competition, particularly in regions where China, Russia or Iran may seek influence under the guise of counterterrorism support? And how does the budget request reflect this responsibility to carry out this
▶ 0:44:52Mr. Chairman, thank you. We have uh comprehensive inter agency coordination. I would say since January 20th, the strategic deliberation and the review of CT counterterrorism or of terrorism hotspots around the world has been accelerated, deliberate and proper.
▶ 0:45:16We work with the intelligence community and our coordinating capacity also with the department of defense combatant commanders uh of course within the department of state. We work with the regional bureaus and we work with other security related bureaus to make sure we're postured to address counterterrorism threats terrorism threats.
▶ 0:45:37And the other thing to to answer your question with respect to Asia um we are 100% in sync with our our Asia bureau with uh uh other colleagues across the inter agency to make sure the relationship between uh terrorist threats and security threats um and our partnerships in Asia is 100% synchronized.
▶ 0:46:03uh I've led diplomatic uh representation to the Quad with Australia and Japan and India. Those are partners in the region that uh have shared security interests and that's just one example of diplomatic engagements that we have to secure our strategic objectives uh in the Indoacific region with respect to security and counterterrorism.
▶ 0:46:29The CT bureau receives 1.6 6 million from the worldwide security protection account in fiscal year 26. Given the bureau's responsibilities, do you believe that is sufficient to support surge operations, special events, and
▶ 0:46:47I do believe our overall budget request is proper. I will um uh with respect to your specific question, I'm confident that it is, but I will get back to you with with more specific information. uh with various functional bureaus addressing counterterrorism adjacent issues like cyber security proliferation and the irregular warfare. How is CT's budget and programming deconlicted from those of other offices?
▶ 0:47:14And is there a need for new legislative direction or internal budgetary coordination uh mechanisms to prevent redundancy?
▶ 0:47:25Thank you. Absolutely. And again going back to it, the reorganization provides us the the best opportunity to eliminate red or to eliminate over uh unnecessary uh overlap and duplication of effort with for example our narcotics and law enforcement bureau, our political military affairs bureau and other bureaus in the fam in the under secretariat of security policy.
▶ 0:47:49And we are off to a very good start in the past just in the past couple weeks uh with looking at uh a given country and saying okay you've got uh funding for this issue and we've got funding for this a very similar issue and deconlicting it's uh it's in real time now and it's something that uh I'm very confident will yield uh better results for the taxpayer and better results for the administration's uh priorities of keeping America safe and secure.
▶ 0:48:16Appreciate it. I yield uh the remainder of my time. I now recognize Representative Schneider for a second round of questioning for five minutes.
▶ 0:48:24Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I'll pick up a little bit from where we were. You know, go back to 911. It's hard to believe it. It is uh coming up on 24 years, but you know, 25 years ago, the the assessment after 911 was the IC's and others um inability to connect the dots. And I'm not casting aspersions. we just didn't connect the dots.
▶ 0:48:47Uh the conclusion following uh 9/11 is that we needed to create the the connective tissue if you will so that when a dot identified by one group over here and a separate unrelated dot over here picked up that somewhere somehow we are bringing those together to say wait there's something uh there. Let me also clarify or be very clear.
▶ 0:49:10There is always room for improvement to realign, reassess to make sure organizations are best structured, best positioned to tackle the challenges of today, not designed for what we were facing a decade or a quarter century ago. I get all that. My concern in in a loss of of a central hub like yours, what do we lose? How do we accelerate the connection of dots?
▶ 0:49:37What do we risk in losing the ability to connect the dots with the approach that's being taken?
▶ 0:49:44I think our ability to to fulfill our statutory responsibilities to coordinate with respect to counterterrorism in the state department in the inter agency and with our diplomatic partners is enhanced by the reorganization.
▶ 0:49:57Help me understand how
▶ 0:49:59because because we have clarity of thought, we have focus on counterterrorism priorities that matter to America and the American people. We did a very thorough I welcomed the assistance review. I welcomed the the reorganization we had over going back to September 11th. Our bureau at that time was less than half the size it is today.
▶ 0:50:23And I have I just want to say extraordinary respect and gratitude for all of my colleagues including those who were uh affected by the reorganization. Good leadership makes tough decisions on how to move forward. The size of the bureau, we weren't even a bureau back then. The counterterror the counterterrorism bureau was an adviser to the secretary. It was less than half the size we are today as a matter of personnel.
▶ 0:50:48We we had a reorganization um where we actually did not we actually moved a lot of our colleagues to the regional bureaus and that's that's a strategic organizational move. They're still CT advisors. They're still going to work on CT. It actually will increase the connectivity between bureaus and it'll increase the overall result of the the reorg will increase our tactical effectiveness because we'll have clarity of thought.
▶ 0:51:15will have fewer uh layers and will be able to coordinate quickly within the inter agency to respond to threats as they face the United States. It also allows us to spend more deliberative time with strategic planning looking ahead uh working uh with under secretary the under secretary uh for uh security affairs going back to the question from congressman Keane about potential threats from new technology.
▶ 0:51:44All of this is now on the table and I'm very confident we'll be able to to move forward in the right
▶ 0:51:49Where I'm still struggling is uh I'll use uh an example a threat emanate a threat to the homeland emanating from actors in South America funded by Iran radicalized in Brussels.
▶ 0:52:08If you have regional authorities looking at various things, how do we make sure that the connective tissue between all of those is identified before that action emanating from South America strikes, whether it's in Florida or Washington State.
▶ 0:52:26Congressman, we still have uh absolute uh vigorous strong embassies all around the world. We have an inter agency that is focused not just the counterterrorism bureau and our coordination role but we have a very strong posture on counterterrorism led by the president led by the administration to keep America safe and in the example that you pose the hypothetical example that you pose we have all the tools in place and in fact I'm confident that we'll be able to move quicker more assertively
▶ 0:52:57and more decisively in facing threats as they come to the United States
▶ 0:53:00to the extent you can I know we're an forum the how that information from Europe to Iran to Latin America to Seattle just picking those sites we don't have any information on that just to be clear how would that information be elevated and escalated to make sure that everything was in place and necessary to first prevent the threat from being an action and then undermining undercutting and and holding to account all those
▶ 0:53:30involved in that Well, Congressman, we'd have uh the lines of communication are still exactly as as they were. And we have uh the counterterrorism bureau. We have direct access of course of reporting upward to the to Secretary Rubio and his team.
▶ 0:53:51We have a counterterrorism inter agency that meets regular and can meet in in an instant uh to review and assess threats and actually again when we're getting back to core interests of keeping America safe. The counterterrorism bureau with the current layout of our resources and our staffing pattern in this case is better postured than than ever before.
▶ 0:54:17I appreciate I appreciate the extra time. I'm still struggling to understand where we've cut capabilities, we've lost expertise, we've uh reduced uh those connections, how it works, but we'll continue talking about it. I yield back.
▶ 0:54:28Gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Lgero, I just want to follow up on something. How does the bureau distinguish between hard security initiatives and root causes uh programs when deciding where to allocate taxpayer resources?
▶ 0:54:44Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. It's a great question. We have uh an annual strategic exercise in September where we look at the administration's priorities and we look at the resources that have been allocated by Congress and we make sure that the resources and the staffing that we have are in concert with the administration's priorities. Um and that's something that we do every year.
▶ 0:55:12It's yielded very good results and uh that will certainly continue um as we go
▶ 0:55:19Great. Uh I thank you. Uh I now want to my colleague, the ranking member uh Representative Sherilis McCormack for five minutes of questioning.
▶ 0:55:36Thank you. Um Mr. Goofo. Um, I don't want to doubt your commitment to the organization, but leadership in the moment like this requires more than presence. It requires push back. It requires telling the truth and standing up. What we're looking at right now, we're looking for more details. And so, I want to hear not just that you'll implement whatever structure you've been given. I want to hear whether you believe that this structure serves the mission and whether you're willing to fight for it. We cannot let institutions memory be erased.
▶ 0:56:06We cannot allow the strategic capacity of the United States government to be hollowed out behind closed doors while we pretend everything is proceeding as normal. Mr. Lgo, what is what is lost when counterterrorism coordination is split across multiple region regional bureaus without a central hub like yours?
▶ 0:56:29Thank you madam ranking member for the
▶ 0:56:33We are fully confident that the structure that we have in place following the reorganization will enable us to coordinate properly on counterterrorism issues to keep America safe and secure. And the uh I I don't believe that we have bled out talent in any way.
▶ 0:56:55In fact, we have moved talent from our bureau, the counterterrorism bureau into other bureaus so that we have counterterrorism advisor expertise in the regional bureaus and we are these are our colleagues. We communicate every day and at the same time we have the benefit of being in the under secretariat for security policy the T family if you will which is in an enhancement.
▶ 0:57:20So, I'm very confident that we'll be able to pursue the core mission of the administration's policies and to keep America safe and secure and the statutory uh functions of coordination on counterterrorism that we have.
▶ 0:57:35Well, I want to switch focus and look at Syria. Um, in May of this of in May on his visit to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, President Trump announced he was going to lift US sanctions on Syria following the fall of the Assad regime. He said this decision was part of his effort to give them a chance at greatness. I have some questions related to the administration's policy on this issue as I believe it is crucial to our CT and stabilization work in the Middle East.
▶ 0:58:03During a recent trip to the region, the importance of supporting Saudi Arabia at this moment of great transition and opportunity was expressed in almost every meeting. Do you agree with President Trump that Syria deserves a chance at greatness? Thank you. On May 13, 2025, as you mentioned, uh the United States recognized the government of Syria and Ahmed Alshara as president of Syria.
▶ 0:58:29The United States is committed to supporting a Syria that is stable, unified, and at peace with itself and its neighbors, a Syria that will not offer a safe haven to terrorist organizations.
▶ 0:58:41So, I have a series of questions. I just wanted to know with a yes or a no. Do you believe in that? I take it as a yes from what you're saying. The answer is yes. Yes.
▶ 0:58:48Do you agree with the stability is an important factor in ensuring it has a chance to be great?
▶ 0:58:55That's a yes or no.
▶ 0:58:57Okay. Do you agree that poverty alleviation and repreation are important to fostering stability and plays an important role for CT functions?
▶ 0:59:06Uh yes. Then would you agree that the reckless, rushed and political motivated shuttering of the US aid was a complete disaster for Syria or do you think there's a a strategy there that can help
▶ 0:59:19The president showed leadership in lifting the sanctions on Syria to give the Syrian people
▶ 0:59:24Well, we're specifically looking at US
▶ 0:59:27Yeah. So, so but but your question was about the Syrian people and my answer is that the president through his courageous step and leadership to recognize the Syri the Syrian president and to lift sanctions
▶ 0:59:42from the Assad regime is the greatest thing to give the Syrian people a chance to turn the page and we are going to continue to support that. We're going to continue to support through Ambassador Barrack's leadership ensuring stability and security as well as
▶ 1:00:01reclaim my t my time because what I'm really looking for because we hear a lot of slogans. I'm hearing a lot of um just positions, but I'm really looking for the nooks and the crannies of implementation and how we're going to achieve this goal. I I believe that for America to win and to survive and to thrive that I would love for the administration to be successful and I really want the State Department to be successful and you to be successful. So I'm asking questions to figure out how we can work together so we can get towards success.
▶ 1:00:29So how are we going to fill in the gap with USAD being gutted and what is your plan and what steps are you taking to alleviate poverty and to fill in that gap specifically?
▶ 1:00:39Well, the department has a plan to develop to deliver development assistance. my role as a counterterrorism coordinator because these are these are I would say adjacent issues you're right that conditions uh can lead to uh instability and can lead to violence um in coord in my role as coordinator I'm working with our inter agency we are going to move forward I'm not uh in charge of the plans to to resume or to refresh our development assistance plans
▶ 1:01:09although I I believe that we we will move forward with that at some time I will say that again the president's bold leadership to lift sanctions, the Assad era sanctions has given the Syrian people a chance.
▶ 1:01:24And and I would say I was in Madrid last month with over 30 diplomatic They were all ecstatic as well as the UNHCR representative for Syria who told us that in Damascus on the day that the president took his
▶ 1:01:41there was cheering in the streets. There was a a brilliant praise and support for the administration's leadership and for the president and that will that will allow us and that will allow us if I
▶ 1:01:52I would like to reclaim my time. Um I want to reclaim my time because we agree with the decision to lift sanctions. That's not up for dispute. But what we're looking at, and I would like to know your opinion based on your years of experience. Um, having a a decree or signing a paper or having a treaty or making decisions. These are great things, but there are scaffolding that needs to be on the bottom of that to help hold up and make sure that this agreement or, you know, lifting these sanctions will lead to success in Syria.
▶ 1:02:20And like I was saying earlier, that is my goal. And so in your opinion, do you believe that we need more pieces of scaffolding for you to be successful in what you're doing? And what would that look like?
▶ 1:02:32The Bureau of Counterterrorism with respect to Syria, we have all the resources that we need uh to advance the president's priorities to keep America safe and secure and to advance the president's vision in the Middle East, including to turn the page for the Syrian people and give them another chance. In February, Mercury Corpse warned that it would stop clean water delivery to 1.8 million Syrians.
▶ 1:02:57Save the Children was forced to close 20 out of its 50 nutrition programs in Syria, which had left over four 400,000 children children at risk for severe malnutrition. The reckless funding cuts also impacted democracy and gave governance program and good governance programs at the time when the support would be crucial to helping the new government succeed.
▶ 1:03:21So my question for you is um do you provide input into the closure of USID and these programs in Syria specifically with the impacts um in development on the ground?
▶ 1:03:35So I understand the question you're asking me if I had input into that decision. No, I'm asking you, do you provide any input for as I mentioned earlier, the goal is to see that the scaffolding that you need to be successful in order to support your mission and your agenda. What do you provide input? What what would be some of that input? Because as we're looking at um proposals or legislation to support you, I would like to know what would be some of your input being that USID now has been removed.
▶ 1:04:02What is it that you need to be successful in addition to what your department offers? Well, from the perspective of counterterrorism, we're 100% focused on preventing an ISIS resurgence, working with the Syrian government to make sure that doesn't happen, and then ensuring that the Syrian government has what it needs uh in order to confront that threat. That's the counterterrorism role that that we that we fulfill.
▶ 1:04:28Um the the broader uh picture here is that uh I think we share this this goal and we probably share the same uh uh uh vision that the Syrian people have the opportunities uh to move forward and the Syrian people have the resources they need to live uh prosperous lives and the lifting of the sanctions and then of course the lifting of the designations of uh Hayat HS as a foreign terror organization will enable uh greater
▶ 1:04:59investment in Syria. Uh the Caesar Act uh will pausing the Caesar Act will enable uh investment will enable support from all over the world including from the region to ensure that we can as you say give some some scaffolding or give some life give some legs to the president's uh courageous and strong decision to lift sanctions.
▶ 1:05:23Thank you. I yield back. I want to thank the ranking member. Um I would note obviously this is this is a big discussion that is going on in Congress with respect to Syria. Uh we want them to be able to succeed. We want stability in Syria. Uh and ultimately we want the administration to have the tools necessary uh to address the situation on the ground to lift the sanctions as appropriate.
▶ 1:05:53um but to not uh necessarily uh end all accountability measures as this new government forms. So um you know this is a debate that we had on the financial services committee yesterday uh in in large measure and uh some of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle wanted all sanctions lifted immediately. So th this is a uh a debate that will continue obviously.
▶ 1:06:19I now want to recognize the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Representative Mast of Florida for five
▶ 1:06:26Thank you. I appreciate that, Mr. Lawler. How are you doing today,
▶ 1:06:31chairman? It's an honor to see you.
▶ 1:06:32Nice to see you as well. I want to get into the FY26 uh budget requests and uh something specifically I want to ask. It includes $215 million for anti-terrorism assistance, $45 million for the terrorist interdiction program, uh, the Pis system. Uh, and I just want you to walk us through, if you can, how the bureau is ensuring that these funds deliver the measurable security benefits to the American people that are needed. Uh, let's just start with that.
▶ 1:07:01Mr. Chairman, thank you. Uh, thank you for your interest and for your support. These uh funds we have gone through uh both through our annual review in the counterterrorism bureau to make sure that the resources that were allocated match up to strategic priorities through the broader assistance review that the administration had uh following uh the election following January 20th and then of course um looking at the world as it is uh a major focus that
▶ 1:07:32we have three three geographic areas central Asia because of ISIS Corusan, the Middle East because of Iran and its proxies, and then West Africa because of the the incident of terrorist attacks in the Sahel. And those three areas geographically are the areas where we're allocating the bulk of our ATA assistance, but we also do have some other uh partners such as the Philippines and elsewhere that are facing their own threats and also happen to be in areas.
▶ 1:08:01Let's touch on the partners a minute. All right. So, if you're looking at the the NATO uh the the foreign partners and how they're prioritized for the NATO programming, how do you determine which foreign partners are prioritized?
▶ 1:08:15Well, first of all, it comes down to whether there's a a a threat to the United States from terrorist groups or terrorist activity in a given area or a given country. And then we of course measure up with the partner. We we have on a on a bilateral or a macro level. Of course, we have to be able to work with a given government in a way that's accountable.
▶ 1:08:36And then we have vetting processes that uh with respect to the implement level to make sure that what we're going to get is is again something that will keep America safe and secure.
▶ 1:08:49Outcomes are obviously something that we want to be measurable and that you know guide the direction there. But maybe go a little bit more into, you know, the security needs, the diplomatic factors, uh, capacity to to absorb assistance. Go into that a little bit if you can.
▶ 1:09:05Sure. I'll give you an example. Um, ISIS Horusan is a serious threat to not just the United States, but our partners in Central Asia and and across Europe. Our partnership with Pakistan has yielded results. They returned the Abbey gate bomber. They are partnering with us to confront ISIS Horusan.
▶ 1:09:29Um and we do have of course some assistance from the CT bureau, counterterrorism bureau that fits into that broader strategy. That's one example. the coastal states in the latoral states in uh Africa, Togo, Benin, Kotvoir north of those countries and in the northern parts of those countries they are facing attacks or they are facing ISIS activity that is killing civilians uh on a very uh frequent basis.
▶ 1:09:58We've started programs there over the past few years. Uh these are I would say the total outlay of those in those three countries is probably under $20 million a year. So we get a I think we get a lot of mileage per dollar out of these programs and we're able to to ensure um that ISIS and J&M which is an al-Qaeda affiliate does not uh have the capacity to establish a safe haven in that part of the world.
▶ 1:10:23So uh let's go into the a little bit more into the uh where the resources are going uh for so for the bureau's process how do you determine uh which continents or regions uh balancing the the balance between going to subsaharan Africa or central Asia? How do you how do you conduct that balance?
▶ 1:10:43Well, it's an inter agency process. We work with the intelligence community. We work with our partners across the inter agency, DoD, because they've got their own footprint in in several of these countries. Um, and we uh look at the cable reporting over the year from our embassies. And again, we do this in September as a general matter, but we can do it on an ad hoc basis if there's a if there's a particular event or a development.
▶ 1:11:06Um, and through that process, uh, we then, of course, all of this relates back to what the administration, the President Trump's priorities are, which is to keep America safe and secure. So, we're really focused on, uh, do these groups or do these terrorist actors pose a direct threat to the homeland or a potential threat and that we have to stay that we have to stay on top of. And so, the outcomes there where we come out, um, big focus on Central Asia.
▶ 1:11:34We've done more with Tajjikhstan, a country that borders China, Russia, and Afghanistan. So, we've built some border security uh partnerships there. That's an example in Central Asia, of course, with uh Iran and his proxies.
▶ 1:11:47By the way, with Iran and his proxies, we had a delegation from my bureau in South America just uh a couple months ago because the impact or the influence of Hamas, Hisbala, the IRGC in South America has been uh pretty pernicious and I would say and um that one of our diplomatic results I was mentioning earlier, Paraguay designated the IRGC as a terrorist organization.
▶ 1:12:14All of this is is underpinned by uh our diplomacy and also I believe our our de our assistance on security our our counterterrorism assistance with these
▶ 1:12:25So with CT assistance, let's talk about that. My time is expired, but I'm going to ask another question anyway. Um, so how uh tell me how CT leverages programmatic funding to encourage counterterrorism burden sharing and uh the broader foreign policy alignment. I'll give you a great example. Northeast camps, displaced persons camps of family members of ISIS fighters.
▶ 1:12:55Three years ago, the population was roughly 70,000. We have worked very hard counterterrorism bureau in the lead in the diplomacy of helping to repatriate make sure that as General Kurill said these camps pose a the a serious long-term threat of violent extremism because women their children in these camps as they grow up the risk of them being radicalized is very high.
▶ 1:13:24So we've we've taken steps to help them to be repatriated to Iraq. Um now within Syria now that the Assad regime has fallen and and to central Asia and in other countries the population of that camp of those camps uh is now about 30,000.
▶ 1:13:42We the United States in all of this have outlaid about 85% of the costs of of of maintaining and fac and operating those camps through imple and implementing partner.
▶ 1:13:55However, with the fall of Assad and with the new administration, we've been able to move forward with getting the United Nations to take its proper responsibility to move forward and take uh uh ownership or facilitate these camps, the cost will be much less. And I also have been engaging with our partners in France and Germany, the United Kingdom on burden sharing. And I pointed out, we've paid 85% of the cost so far.
▶ 1:14:23This threat is actually approximate to you relative to us and we've gotten some good feedback here because we make under the president's leadership we say if we share risk we have to share burden and that's an example where I think we're making a lot of improvement
▶ 1:14:39very good I appreciate the answer to all of my questions today and uh in that Mr. Lawler, I can't yield you back any time. I have none remaining.
▶ 1:14:48No, we were in our second round of questioning. So, you had upwards of 10 minutes. So, I appreciate uh the chairman participating in this hearing. And I want to thank the witness for the valuable testimony and the members for their questions. The members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witness and we will ask you to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations.
▶ 1:15:20Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.