▶ 0:00:17>> testing.
▶ 0:00:54>> thank you.
▶ 0:06:25>> all. >> one button. Your top button.
▶ 0:10:26>> testing. >> test.
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▶ 0:21:43>> uh, before we get started, I want to recognize representative cisneros from the great state of california to lead us in the pledge and the prayer. Would you stand? >> and.
▶ 0:22:47>> so you're not worried about what you said or what you did? We'll have people moving in and out a lot today because there are a lot of other hearings going on. So somebody gets up after you've talked. Don't worry about it. They're hidden, but they'll be back. So I want you to be aware of that. And we'll also say good morning to everyone. And I now call the committee on small business to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the committee at any time. I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
▶ 0:23:14Welcome to today's hearing entitled wired for growth how expanding broadband can revitalize rural small businesses. I want to begin by thanking our witnesses for being here today, and access to reliable, affordable broadband is not a luxury. It is a necessity for small businesses, families, students and communities across america. It's rural areas in particular that broadband can mean the difference between growth and stagnation, and between new opportunities and being left behind.
▶ 0:23:40For years, we have heard the frustration from rural entrepreneurs who cannot compete on a level playing field because of slow or nonexistent internet service. They cannot expand their market, streamline operations, or use new technologies that divide is real and holds back small businesses and the communities they serve. This is why I've been proud to introduce legislation over the years that would eliminate the digital divide. Now, further, broadband deployment must be free from political interference.
▶ 0:24:06That is why I am encouraged by the steps taken by the trump administration to reduce red tape, lower costs and accelerate broadband deployment. Ultimately, improving connectivity opportunities but cutting through regulatory burdens that slowed investment and innovation for too long, the trump administration is ensuring that rural communities finally get connected. President trump promised to put america first, ensuring every american has the tools to thrive in the modern economy.
▶ 0:24:33So today's hearing is about listening to small businesses and rural providers who are experiencing this challenge. As legislators and advocates for main street in washington, we need a better understanding of what is working, where the roadblocks remain, and how we can continue to build on the progress for small business owners, broadband providers and local leaders. Our committee is committed to ensuring that rural, small businesses have the same opportunities as those in our cities and suburbs. Broadband is a critical infrastructure, workforce development, education and health care.
▶ 0:25:01Most importantly, it is freedom. Freedom to innovate. Freedom to compete and succeed. I want to thank our witnesses again for joining us today. You've come a long way, and I look forward to the discussion ahead as we work to ensure that rural america is not left behind in the 21st century economy. So with that, I'd like to distinguish our ranking member and acknowledge her for being here and leading new york. Miss velazquez. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, for calling this crucial hearing.
▶ 0:25:29Rural small businesses play a central role in local economies, accounting for nearly 80%, 85% of firms and 54% of jobs in rural counties. However, they face unique problems requiring unique attention, one of which is access to broadband or high speed internet service.
▶ 0:25:53Essential activities that many americans take for granted, like video conferencing, online banking, e-commerce, and most importantly, rely upon the high internet speeds and capacity made possible by today's broadband infrastructure. It is this technology that makes new ideas and companies soar across the nation and the world, literally at the speed of light.
▶ 0:26:20But over 1 in 4 rural americans have not been connected to broadband internet infrastructure. The reason this gap exists can be found in the issues rural telephone deployment and counter. About a century ago.
▶ 0:26:36Put simply, when faced with fewer customers per square mile and more difficult geography than american cities, large corporations find it less profitable to invest in rural infrastructure, be it phones, electricity, water or broadband, and put their money instead in more densely populated, easier to reach places.
▶ 0:27:01This is why government spending is sorely needed to fill the holes in private spending. The previous administration made the single largest investment in this space, with the bipartisan infrastructure law through the broadband equity, access and deployment or bid program, be it is a generational $42.5 billion investment in high
▶ 0:27:32Speed internet service nationwide. Specifically targeting the rural and tribal areas underserved by private industry and creating jobs in those areas to install and maintain broadband infrastructure. These projects were, by law, to be powered mainly by fiber optic cables. The fastest and most reliable broadband technology currently in existence.
▶ 0:28:00However, the trump administration abruptly issued a policy notice upending the bid program, requiring grant applicants to quickly rewrite and resubmit their proposals within mere weeks. The biggest change to the program overturns its emphasis on fiber optic cables, the best technology around in favor of an untested technology.
▶ 0:28:31Cornered by elon musk's starlink satellites. Citing cost savings. But I am concerned that the administration is missing the realities of satellites, namely, that it cannot effectively match the speed, reliability and capacity offered by fiber. I will jump at the opportunity to make bid projects more economical and improved this once in a lifetime investment.
▶ 0:29:01It seems like this change will make bid focus more on cheap work than on good work. In other words, president trump isn't lowering these costs for rural america. He is selling rural america. Short. Rural small businesses deserve the same high speed, high quality internet service as any other business in the country and the world.
▶ 0:29:29That means the playing field we give them must be truly level. It is time for bid to honor the on the ground perspective clamoring for fiber projects. We must also consider the views of america's territory. So, Mr. chairman, I request unanimous consent to insert into the record a written statement of the puerto rico telecommunications alliance.
▶ 0:29:55With that, I look forward to having a robust conversation today and thank all the witnesses for their presence. I yield back. >> lady yields back. And now I would like to recognize Mr. stauber from the great state of minnesota to introduce his constituent, miss kristi westbrook, testifying before us today. >> thank you very much, Mr. chair, for the opportunity to introduce the minnesota witness this morning.
▶ 0:30:20I am pleased to recognize kristi westbrook, who who resides in merrifield, minnesota, located in my district with her husband and daughter. Kristi has served as a leader at consolidated telecommunications company, headquartered in brainerd, minnesota, for over 17 years.
▶ 0:30:36Her work has been instrumental in expanding broadband access to underserved communities, reinforcing her passion for rural america and ensuring that all communities, regardless of geography, have access to reliable and affordable technology. With a strong voice in the telecom telecommunications industry and heartfelt commitment to community impact, kristi continues to lead with vision, integrity and a commitment to making a difference, which is why I am pleased so pleased to have her join this committee today.
▶ 0:31:06Kristi, I thank you for being here and I look forward to hearing from you. >> thank you, Mr. orban. Our next witness is Mr. jimmy todd. Mr. todd is the chief executive officer and general manager of the nex-tech, based in lenora, kansas. Since 2014, he has overseen the company's operations and strategic growth while also serving as chairman of nex-tech wireless and holding board positions with the fiber broadband association and other organizations. Mr.
▶ 0:31:33Todd previously served as an infantry officer in the army national guard, as an aviation electronics technician in the us navy, and thank you for that service. So he earned a bachelor of arts in social sciences from chapman university and a master of business administration from the university of portland. Our next witness here is Mr. jeff vanderwerf. Correct. Jeff. Uh, Mr. vanderwerf is fourth generation farmer and the owner of vw, llc from kent city, michigan.
▶ 0:32:01Uh, he oversees precision agriculture and agronomics on the farm, focusing on the data driven practices that have positioned his operation as a community leader. In addition to farming, he is also co-owner of the multi-location agricultural retail business that serves much of michigan. Uh, he. Here they are offer a specialized support for everything from apples to zucchini and crops in between. Does that taste good when you mix all that together, huh? Mr.
▶ 0:32:28Vanderwerf is an american farm bureau federation member and studied crop and soil science at michigan state university. And, uh, so thank you for that. And I now recognize the ranking member from new york, Mr. velasquez, to briefly introduce our last witness appearing before us today. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:32:45Miss karen jackson fuhrman is the ceo of west kentucky and tennessee telecommunications cooperative, or w, k and t, a rural co-op serving west kentucky, northwest tennessee, southern illinois and northern alabama.
▶ 0:33:02Founded in 1951, the connect to connect rural kentuckians and tennesseans to telephones w, k and t now also delivers high speed broadband over roughly 2500 miles and more than 33,000 network connections.
▶ 0:33:21Miss jackson thurman has over 31 years of experience in telecom co-ops, including nine years at w, k, and t, holding roles like ceo, cfo and coo. As ceo, she has prioritized new strategic partnerships and pursuing state and federal grants to expand access to unserved and underserved communities.
▶ 0:33:46She holds a bachelor's degree from southeast missouri state university and an mba from southern illinois university edwardsville. Welcome, miss jackson. Thank you for being here. >> lady yields back. And again, I want to thank all of you for being here today. And before we recognize the witnesses, we'd like to remind them we got some rules around here. I'm going to tell you the rules. They're not hard. Okay?
▶ 0:34:12I'd like to remind them that their oral testimony is restricted to five minutes in length. We want to stay with that. Uh, if you see a light turn red in front of you, it means your five minutes is up. Uh, and that you need to conclude. And you should wrap it up. Okay. So with that in mind, I now recognize miss westbrook for her five minute opening remarks.
▶ 0:34:37>> chairman williams, ranking member velazquez and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to participate in today's hearing, which focuses on the importance of rural broadband connectivity and how it can revitalize small business. I'm kristi westbrook, I'm the ceo and general manager of ctc, headquartered in brainerd, minnesota. I am a native of browns valley, minnesota, with the population of 505.
▶ 0:35:03I grew up in a small town where my graduating class was 26 people, and everyone knew everyone by their first name. That grounded my passion for rural america. Today I live in merrifield, minnesota with my husband mike, and my daughter emily. I've been with ctc for 17 years and I have over 25 years of industry experience. Ctc is a full service technology advisor serving central and northern minnesota for the past 75 years.
▶ 0:35:31With our fiber network, we offer our members fast, reliable internet, phone, tv services as well as business phone systems and it systems. Ctc is a cooperative and we live by our mission to empower our members, employees and communities through exceptional service and life changing technology solutions for a sustainable future.
▶ 0:35:53As today's hearing will hopefully underscore fast, high capacity broadband in rural areas, promote small business growth and creates jobs. For example, studios, a cutting edge video production and marketing company in hibbing, minnesota, saw an immediate boost in its process and its production efficiency after having a robust fiber connection.
▶ 0:36:18Limerick had previously served with spotty, less reliable connection, but we were able to help his company achieve more and receive more from its clients. Jim lee from lyric studios has stated in our fast paced industry, where every second counts in digital connectivity is paramount. Kttc's unwavering reliability has been a game changer. It's the bedrock upon which we've built our enhanced operational efficiency.
▶ 0:36:46Ctc hasn't just met our expectations, they have redefined them. Our transition has been transformative. This is just one example of showing how we've been able to contribute to our community, and how a reliable connection can impact rural broadband, rural businesses, and economic growth and vitality. However, we have more work to do.
▶ 0:37:07This is where public policy plays such an important role in helping build and sustain broadband in rural markets that would not otherwise justify such investments for ongoing operations. For example, there has long been bipartisan recognition for years that the lengthy review process are slowing down broadband deployment, particularly in regions with short construction seasons. In minnesota.
▶ 0:37:33Even a brief delay can push projects back by years. These setbacks increase cost as unpredictable timelines make it more challenging to secure contractors and maintain our work schedule. Grant programs play an important role in rural broadband deployment, and I provide specific examples in my written testimony of programs that ctc has leveraged, as well as thoughts on where the program is headed.
▶ 0:38:00Last week, the minnesota office of broadband unveiled their draft plan for public comment. Ctc is expected to receive approximately 20 million of the seed funding, along with our members capital investment of 6 million to build out 2209 locations, with 35 of those being small businesses. To be clear, grants by themselves are not enough to keep rural america connected.
▶ 0:38:26It ultimately takes a mix of community commitment and private capital to build networks as well as well. And in many rural areas where terrific broadband exists today. Those networks were not built by leveraging grants, but rather through a mix of private capital and loans and support from the fcc's universal service fund.
▶ 0:38:48In fact, the continued operation and sicilian ability of network efficiency and affordable services in rural areas can present a significant challenge. This is where usf has its greatest impact, even if federal funding is available to help with construction capital, we still need to recover our matching investments, keep our rates affordable consumers and small business, and maintain our networks.
▶ 0:39:13As I explain in my written testimony, while usf has been very successful, we need to modernize how this program is funded, and we appreciate the work of bipartisan lawmakers from the us senate and house in considering such reforms. I thank this committee and interest in all these issues, and look forward to working with you to ensure all americans experience the benefits of broadband over the best possible networks, both today and for decades to come. Thank you. >> great on your timing.
▶ 0:39:43Thank you. And if you hear me do this, that's remind you to move on. Okay. All right. I now recognize Mr. todd for his five minute opening remarks. >> chairman williams, ranking member. Velazquez. Committee members. I'm jimmy todd, ceo and general manager for nex-tech, a rural cooperative serving 33,000 customers across 11,000mi in in kansas.
▶ 0:40:10I've been in the telecom and technology industries for about 40 years now and have spent a lot of years advocating for fiber, broadband, precision agriculture, and usf reform. I've had appointments to the kansas ng9 one one coordinating council, uh team kansas, and the department of commerce and the fcc's precision ag task force, where I was a coauthor of the 2023 report.
▶ 0:40:37I'm a proud veteran of 21 years with the us navy, us army and army national guard. And I'd like to share that. As we know, broadband is not a luxury. It is an essential economic infrastructure, and robust connectivity helps our rural communities attract new businesses, retain businesses that we have, support entrepreneurs and help keep our young people in our rural communities. For agriculture.
▶ 0:41:07Fiber infrastructure enables precision tools and ag tech that conserve resources, improve yields, and strengthen the supply chain for food. I'd like to share a quick success story about mccarty dairy, who over a decade ago reached out to us. They were eight miles outside of our cooperative footprint, and yet they needed fiber connectivity to secure a contract with a national yogurt brand.
▶ 0:41:33Now, between where we served and their area, there was no one. We looked at this as an economic development opportunity, and we figured out how to make it work with that robust fiber connectivity, they are able to monitor the health of 32,000 cows daily. Uh, the processing and condensing plants are controlled through fiber optics.
▶ 0:41:57The robots are used to milk 10,000 cows a day, and the impact is jobs created, family livelihoods sustained, and communities strengthened. Farming has transformed a great deal from the days where the single source of truth was the farmer's almanac to today's ag technology and data availability sensors, automated irrigation, drones, robotic labor all require fiber last mile infrastructure and that
▶ 0:42:28Fiber last mile infrastructure enables that last acre network that connects all of these activities going on in today's farms and ranches. There are many success stories that I can share, but challenges continue to remain burdensome. Permitting processes, delay builds which add to costs and discourage investments.
▶ 0:42:52Congress can help by streamlining permitting so rural america doesn't fall behind. Next tech was the first in the nation to bring fiber to a rural exchange, and despite early criticism of gold plating, we persevered and continued to. With that focus. Fiber is the do it once, do it right technology, and it supports smart ag.
▶ 0:43:16It supports ai, telehealth, remote education, and will for decades innovation in the future. According to the center for rural innovation, rural counties with broadband adoption above 80% see 213% higher business growth, 10% higher self-employment growth, 18% higher per capita income growth, and 44% higher gdp growth.
▶ 0:43:42Broadband adoption directly drives entrepreneurship, jobs and community growth. Millions of americans, however, are still unserved or underserved. I urge congress to ensure federal broadband funding continues to prioritize fiber, the most reliable, scalable, and cost effective technology.
▶ 0:44:03Further, you know, if possible, cut the red tape so that we can see permitting reform as well as usf reform, because that will help rural america faster. Finally, ensuring affordability for all americans is going to remain important. Thank you for the opportunity.
▶ 0:44:25Um, with the small business committee here for this hearing and the opportunity to share with you, I look forward to your questions. >> I now recognize mister vanderwerf for his five minute opening remarks. >> good morning, chairman williams, ranking member velasquez, members of the committee. Thank you for having us. Uh, my name is jeff vanderwerf. I am visiting you this morning from the state of michigan, where my family and I operate an agribusiness and farming operation near the town of sparta.
▶ 0:44:55Like many americans, we depend on reliable internet service as a part of our daily lives. And in the wake of the covid 19 pandemic, that that need has only become more acute. And I want to thank you for the opportunity to share some thoughts on this topic. As a small business owner and farmer, the internet is a part of our daily lives. From the connectivity of our precision agriculture software to the use of cloud based billing systems for our agribusiness, reliable, high speed internet is a necessity. We have to have.
▶ 0:45:22The lack of infrastructure, however, has made that more challenging. As our connected world continues to evolve, it seems a weekly occurrence in our community facebook groups that someone is asking if there are better internet options available for their homes and businesses. And sadly, there are often only 1 or 2 providers in the area and coverage is less than ideal.
▶ 0:45:41Our family has tried to be a part of that solution for years by installing and hosting broadband internet at our farms, utilizing our physical elevation, as well as our 130 foot grain systems to boost signals and help more folks reach high speed, fixed point internet. And while private industry is making strides every day to improve this, there is a lot of work to be done. We often hear the phrase the last mile when describing services in rural areas, whether it be the postal service or amazon or high speed internet.
▶ 0:46:11And this is where the need is greatest. And while innovation such as starlink have helped tremendously, they often are cost prohibitive, putting a further burden on rural america, where poverty levels can often match those of our most populated cities. I do believe there's a better answer. Growing up, I, uh, I often heard my grandparents talk about how life changing the rural electrification act of the 1930s was, and how much life on their farms and in rural communities improved.
▶ 0:46:39Today, we are at a similar inflection point with part of our country living in the modern area. While rural america lags behind. This is just another contributing factor in the decline of our rural towns and the small town america that we all love so much. It isn't just about businesses or farms being able to access internet service, it's about lost opportunities for rural americans and an increasingly digital world.
▶ 0:47:03From education and job opportunities to simple things like trying to order a tractor part, families are being forced to make hard choices when it comes to where they live and where they want to raise a family, and the increase in online virtual work has made it more difficult for young americans to plant their roots in the hometown that their families have lived in for generations, further hollowing out middle america. I want to thank you again for your time this morning to discuss this topic, and I certainly welcome any and all questions from the committee. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
▶ 0:47:31And now I recognize miss jackson fuhrman for her five minute opening remarks. >> chairman williams, ranking member velazquez and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the important topic of how expanding broadband access can ensure small businesses are able to thrive. My name is karen jackson fuhrman and I am ceo of west kentucky and tennessee telecommunications cooperative, a local provider serving rural parts of kentucky, tennessee, illinois and alabama.
▶ 0:48:00We serve more than 33,000 customers, covering approximately 2500mi, and employ 109 people from the community. I'm also here representing wta advocates for rural broadband. We will be celebrating its 75th anniversary next year. We got our start with a loan from usda's rural electrification administration to provide telephone service to the citizens of several counties in kentucky and tennessee. Since then, we've expanded and upgraded our operations.
▶ 0:48:27Today, we provide 100% fiber connectivity to our customers. High speed internet continues to transform our world, including rural areas, and is a necessity for full participation in modern life and economic competitiveness. Isn't just a residential internet provider, we're also a small business that provides vital services to more than 1000 other small businesses and its critical infrastructure, and vital for rural communities and small businesses.
▶ 0:48:55For example, ralph brothers farms in graves county, kentucky, has 24 poultry barns connected to its fiber internet service. The brothers are able to monitor the barns on a mobile app on their cell phones at any hour of the day, and recognize problems immediately.
▶ 0:49:11In another example, michael warren and nazar nazar of savant learning systems in weakley county, tennessee, worked with tennessee's bethel university to develop one of the first online academic programs allowing police officers to complete their continuing education and requiring required training without having to travel. Saving both time and money, they say that their fiber connection makes all the difference in what they do.
▶ 0:49:37These are just a couple examples, but without a robust broadband connection, it's virtually impossible for a small business to make it in today's world. And if small businesses aren't making it, america's overall economy suffers. Last year, the white house noted that small businesses are responsible for more than 40% of america's economic output and two thirds of net new jobs. And it's not just any connection that matters, but one that can support high bandwidth applications at w.k.a.
▶ 0:50:04We've chosen to deploy fiber because we want to make sure our communities are not just getting by today with good enough service, but that they have a high speed, robust, scalable broadband network that will provide opportunities decades from now. And as shared in my written testimony, connectivity to our fiber network during the destructive ef4 long track tornado in december of 2021 was never interrupted, allowing emergency services to assist and potentially save lives.
▶ 0:50:33I'd be missing an opportunity if I did not give credit to several important federal broadband programs, without which I would not be able to do what we do. We're able to build, operate, and upgrade our network primarily because of the federal universal service fund administered by the federal communications commission. The principles of reasonably comparable service at reasonably comparable rates among urban and rural areas across the country has guided us telecom policy for decades.
▶ 0:51:03The usf covers a portion of the cost of our network construction, but also ongoing operations, maintenance and upgrades so we can keep our network on pace with what americans in more urban areas enjoy. Thankfully, the constitutionality of the fcc's usf program was recently upheld by the supreme court.
▶ 0:51:21In addition, grants from programs like usda's reconnect program created by congress in 2018 and now the bead program, have and will provide us opportunities to expand our network and services. Lastly, as I alluded to earlier, having a broadband connection is incredibly important, but it's also important that it be affordable. As congress looks to modernize usf, finding a solution to the affordability question must be part of that discussion.
▶ 0:51:49I'd like to extend an invitation to each of you to come see us. We'd love to introduce you to our small town business owners that rely on high speed internet to run their successful businesses while living in an area that they choose to live in. Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to answering any questions you may have. >> great job! I'll now move to the member questions under the five minute rule, and I will now recognize myself for five minutes. Mr.
▶ 0:52:18Vanderwerf, as a small business owner and farmer myself, I understand that the right technology is crucial to precision agriculture. So my question is how is limited or unreliable broadband impacted your day to day operations? >> well, thank you for that question, Mr. chairman. Uh, the simple answer is we can't operate without it.
▶ 0:52:40Uh, from some of the other folks described complicated ag operations, precision ag monitoring our grain systems, things like that require good, reliable, high speed connectivity from our agribusiness perspective, uh, we've had to deliberately look to locate facilities in areas that have access to cable, internet. Um, if we aren't able to do that, then we're stuck using fixed point wireless or satellite systems, but it just increases our costs. Uh, much more greatly on that.
▶ 0:53:07So it's it's definitely something that is a very, very critical part of the overall picture of operating a successful agricultural business today. >> thank you. Now this question is for both Mr. miss westbrook and Mr. todd. Uh, rural communities aren't one size fits all when it comes to connectivity. And in your view, how important is it for federal broadband programs to take a technology neutral approach, such as allowing fiber, wireless, satellite and other solutions to compete based on what best fits each community's needs? Mr. or miss westbrook.
▶ 0:53:39>> thank you. Uh, Mr. williams. Yes. So, um, we believe that there's room for all technologies in, um, networks, especially when you're looking at how we can potentially serve communities. But in in my professional opinion, fiber broadband is the answer. Um, mostly because we know that it's scalable. And with the, uh, I, uh, explosion that we will see, the networks are going to have to be that robust.
▶ 0:54:09I also want to make sure that in the bead program that the dollars are spent the well and that we're not back asking for additional dollars because one of the technologies didn't stand up for the long haul. I believe in doing that with our taxpayers dollars and making the best investment when we can. >> okay, good. Thank you. Mr. todd, do you want to add to that? >> uh, yes, chairman. Thank you for the question.
▶ 0:54:35And I would agree with with miss westbrook in that fiber is the preference and here's why. It's a generational investment when using federal funds to to make an investment for broadband connectivity is something that we want to stand for generations. You know, we go back to the early mid 90s with fiber infrastructure and it's still operating today. However, we've used other technologies that in short periods of time have to be fully replaced.
▶ 0:55:00And so when you look at the reliability and the long term generational use of the investment, uh, in my opinion, fiber is is the preference. >> uh, let me move on, Mr. todd. How do how do your companies adapt their deployment strategies to account for unique challenges of serving sparsely populated rural areas where higher costs and terrain or geography may limit certain technologies?
▶ 0:55:26>> so we have been very fortunate to leverage, uh, funding through grants from the federal government as well as the state government. We have been able to expand our network out to reach our neighbors. So beyond our cooperative footprint, we have, you know, the networks already in place. So being able to expand there is is less costly than if we were to start a greenfield build in a particular area.
▶ 0:55:49So we continue edging out as we find funding to be able to reach those sparsely populated areas. Because I'm in a very ag heavy area, so ranches and farms are the biggest businesses in northwest kansas and north central kansas. And so with that, we expand fiber to reach those businesses. >> thank you, miss westbrook. As a as a broad, uh, band provider, what tools or approaches do you find most effective in keeping service affordable for rural communities?
▶ 0:56:20>> um, yes. So, um, from an affordability standpoint, we specifically were a user of the acp program and found it extremely beneficial, uh, during covid. And so we keeping it affordable and giving the best technology solutions. We have to also leverage our usf program, uh, the grants that we get all of those pieces, because that drives to the affordability and the ability to offer the best services to our members for that price. >> in limited time. Mr.
▶ 0:56:48Todd, what challenges have you faced with current mapping efforts? >> with mapping, they continue to improve, but they they tend to be a snapshot in time. Um, not all um, information presented is is always accurate. Um, it's it's probably worse on the mobile wireless side than it is on the fixed side. But there are improvements that we have seen in recent years, and we hope to see continued improvements in mapping. >> all right. Thank you. I yield back my time.
▶ 0:57:17And now I recognize the ranking member for five minutes of questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Miss jackson chairman. Uh, why doesn't rural broadband receive as much investment from private industry as more urban areas? >> because it's a very high cost area to serve and it's very sparsely populated. For instance, we serve 13 customers per square mile, and that drives the cost, the cost up and makes it very expensive and less profitable.
▶ 0:57:47>> so there's no question that federal funding is needed to fill the gap. >> that's right. >> uh, miss jackson, can you briefly walk us through the pros and cons of using fiber and satellite for broadband? >> sure. Thank you. Uh, fiber is scalable, it's reliable, and it's faster than satellite broadband.
▶ 0:58:10Uh, right now, the upfront costs to deploy, I know, is a is a point of contention right now, but once the fiber is in the ground, it's scalable because just the electronics on the end of the fiber need to be upgraded to provide the needed bandwidth for the future satellite deployment. We've we've they share spectrum. There's only so much spectrum. Even if you launch more satellites, it's a shared spectrum resource amongst different spectrum or satellite providers. So the throughput is not what it is with fiber.
▶ 0:58:39And then we have the issue of needing to replenish the constellations every approximately five years with satellite. And there are unknown environmental concerns with those satellites coming back down and different things like that that we don't understand yet. >> in fact, uh, a recent study finds that satellites fall below broadband standards when more than a handful of users connect with within a square mile. Mr.
▶ 0:59:06Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert the story into the record. Miss, uh, miss jackson, should satellite satellites be the exception? Not the not the norm in the big projects? >> yes, ma'am. I agree with that. I think that satellite has a place. Many times it's on, uh, things.
▶ 0:59:29Mobile rvs and boats, maybe very remote hunting lodges where there isn't a lot of infrastructure, which those are far and few between. But I think that there's a place for all the different technologies. But whenever fiber is available in, the funding for fiber is available. Absolutely. It should be fiber. >> and so why is it important to have a variety of broadband programs serving different needs?
▶ 0:59:55>> the the programs that I'm familiar with reconnect, community connect, bede, usf, they all have different purposes. Uh, I think it's important that they not overlap, but for instance, reconnect. That's a that helps with the capital infrastructure cost, but it also has a loan component that might be beneficial for some big companies to utilize. Bede. That's 100% capital infrastructure. But usf, it's unique in that it's got the component for maintenance upgrades, the long term operation support.
▶ 1:00:25So we need the different funding mechanisms to keep rural america connected. >> and it will help expand rural broadband beyond what a single program could provide. >> yes. That's correct I agree. >> um, how does the universal service fund, usf keep your rates affordable and your models sustainable? >> well, it it does in that it keeps rates affordable because of the subsidies that we receive.
▶ 1:00:54It's a cost cross-subsidize cross-subsidization. So that the urban areas and the rural areas can have comparable services for comparable rates. And so any anybody in this room that has a cell phone helps contribute to that fund. And then the funds are redistributed so that rural america can benefit and stay connected just like urban areas. So it is paramount in keeping rates affordable. >> thank you.
▶ 1:01:17In june, the supreme court rejected a challenge to the us funding mechanism, letting the fcc continue its programs. What does that mean for co-ops like yours? >> it means everything. It allows us to stay on cutting edge technology. It allows us to keep our networks upgraded, maintained expansion potentially. It it is the difference between operating and not operating. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> lady yields back.
▶ 1:01:47I now recognize Mr. mercer from the great state of pennsylvania for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, very much. And thanks very much to our witnesses. Certainly a very important subject. Um, I travel my district, I travel my state. And sadly, here in 2025, maybe 20% of my district has very poor broadband service. Uh, and it's ridiculous.
▶ 1:02:15Uh, there's a lot of money going towards it. Federal money, state money. The management of it is awful. I know in pennsylvania, uh, our current governor set up an initiative, uh, three years ago. Two years ago? That sounded good, but really accomplished. Nothing. Nothing has improved. But I'm not just going to blame. Blame our state leadership. I mean, I mean, this is this has been the case. This should have been improved five years ago. Ten years ago.
▶ 1:02:45So that's why, um, now, now, miss westbrook, in your state of minnesota, let me just ask, on a scale of 1 to 10, because a lot of money goes towards this. I mean, $1.5 billion. And I know how my democrat colleagues just say, oh, yeah, we just need more money. Just give us more money. Um. That's great. Okay. But nothing is improving with the money that has gone. There's been $1.5 billion sent to pennsylvania over the last three years. And again, zero improvement. How's. How's kansas, uh, developing or. Excuse me. Minnesota.
▶ 1:03:16>> yeah. So, um, in minnesota, I would say that our office of broadband has done a remarkable job in our state grant programs. I believe they've been allocated extremely well. Although I will say that there are providers that take the money and then they don't, um, build out the project. They say they're going to do it. And then three years later, people are still waiting for that. Um. >> they go where the money is. >> absolutely. >> they can do more hookups. Right.
▶ 1:03:43So the so the language is written terribly for rural broadband. It's not restrictive enough. So you give it a good rating. Go on. >> uh, I give our office a good rating. I would say this, that we have to be very careful again of who's getting that money. If you look across the country, in rural communities where there are cooperatives and family owns that are local to those communities, that money is being spent correctly.
▶ 1:04:07When you start looking at how it goes into certain corporations, that's when things start to start to stray a little in all honesty. And so. >> thank you. Yep. Mr. todd, same question. >> in kansas. Um, the code has has managed federal funds that have been allocated to the state. And I would say a majority of those programs or projects have been fiber based. Now, I won't say that all of them have been fiber based.
▶ 1:04:35I would like to say that that were the case, um, the fiber infrastructure is what will last. And that's what makes the difference. >> so money's a lot more money. >> it does cost more money. Yes, sir. And in order to reach customers that are not connected, I understand the need for fixed wireless or or other means, just as was described earlier. But at the end of the day, whenever a fiber project can be funded, that makes the difference. >> Mr. wolf, I'm going to I'm going to get to you in a second.
▶ 1:05:07Uh, what? What else is holding it back besides the misallocation? You know, there's some that say the prevailing wage issues in states like pennsylvania. Uh, some of the deregulation that's taking place under the trump administration should improve things. Um, Mr. wolf, I'll turn to you with that. What what what are the what are the issues standing in the way besides the misallocation of of federal funds and state funds that truly are allocated for for rural broadband?
▶ 1:05:36>> well, congressman, I'm not at a person who installs rural broadband, so I can't speak too much to that. But from from the boots on the ground perspective as an end user, uh, I think it's just the complexity of it. People have mentioned terrain and a lot of parts of michigan. It's very hilly. Uh, and so point to point becomes more of an issue. And it's so it's just a matter of, uh, getting those projects funded, getting these things going and getting the the cable into the ground, for lack of a better way to. >> and we have the same issue in my district.
▶ 1:06:04The hills the you know, you hear and that's where of course fiber would come in and overcome that that issue uh is that your, your your thought as well in kansas. >> well, fortunately we don't have the mountains to deal with in kansas. Uh, we have the flint hills in the eastern part of the state. But quite honestly, you know, fiber does overcome those challenges wherever you can deploy it. >> okay. Um, do you have anything to say on this, on this broad question? >> sure.
▶ 1:06:33I'll just add that we're working in four states illinois, kentucky, tennessee and alabama. And I commend all four broadband offices for working very, very hard. They've been given a hard task, and they've worked very hard to to execute a few of the things that we we run into that cause delays or occasionally permitting issues. Railroads especially uh, sometimes, you know, and I'm absolutely for environmental review. >> sorry. Thank you. I've run out of time. I yield back, Mr. chairman. Thank you. >> I now recognize Mr.
▶ 1:07:02Mcgarvey from kentucky for five minutes. Great state of kentucky. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I want to first welcome my fellow kentuckian, miss jackson, and thank you for being here today. And welcome to the small business committee. I'm really grateful for all the work that you're doing to expand broadband broadband access in the commonwealth of kentucky, especially in our hardest to reach places. Um, so thank you for that. You know, this is a pretty bipartisan issue, I think. Uh, I know that everybody in america wants reliable, affordable connectivity to the internet.
▶ 1:07:33Uh, as a parent where school just started, literally everything your kids now do is online. Uh, this is not a want. This is a need to have affordable connectivity throughout this country. And it wasn't so long ago that democrats and republicans actually came together and worked on this with the affordable connectivity program, which gave internet access to 1 in 4 kentucky families and 23 million households across the country. Uh, but the republicans did let that program expire last year.
▶ 1:08:02And I still hear from constituents for whom that program was a lifeline, a connection to their doctor, to their school, to their kids activities, to homework, to work. Uh, that's now gone. So republicans and democrats came together and created the bead program, to which miss jackson fuhrman correctly noted in her testimony, will bring broadband to 2100 underserved kentucky locations.
▶ 1:08:25This is what bead was designed for, making it easier for co-ops like k and t to go into the hardest to connect places and deliver on that last mile. But in june, the trump administration abruptly reworked the bead program requirements, creating chaos for state broadband programs, offices, small service providers and communities that were about to get reliable internet for the first time.
▶ 1:08:47So miss jackson firm will start there and just say, tell us about what the trump administration's changes on the bead program meant to you and the people for whom you provide internet. >> thank you. The biggest thing that it meant to companies like me is removing the fiber preference and allowing satellite to compete on equal footing, and then fixed wireless to, uh, specifically satellite, though I know they put in a lot of applications for a lot of locations.
▶ 1:09:11So what that means for me, I think we fared pretty well in our application area in kentucky, um, through a consortium that we're involved with. But in tennessee, where we applied for funding, we we lost locations that were awarded to satellite. And I say that a satellite was the only other applicant in that area. So I'm assuming they were awarded to satellite because they weren't awarded to wcnc with fiber technology. So that was the biggest impact. >> yeah.
▶ 1:09:38And you know, I'm hearing from everybody's testimony up here again, the goal is to get internet to people who need it. Right. I'm hearing from everybody up here that this preference for satellite makes it less reliable for people to get internet. Is anybody disagreeing with that right now? Great. Silence is an answer.
▶ 1:09:55Uh, so, you know, there's a really well-known entrepreneur from my hometown in louisville, kentucky, david jones senior, and he once said, uh, quality is often the most affordable thing you can do. So fiber is a better quality than satellite. It lasts longer than satellite.
▶ 1:10:20And even though it might be more expensive up front, is what I'm understanding that it is cheaper over the long term and better for the people who need it. Mr. todd. >> in in our experience, uh, what we've seen is that, uh, the investment, when you look at the operating as well as the capital investments over a ten year period, you end up being in a better position with underground fiber.
▶ 1:10:45>> and isn't that what we should be looking at is where are we in the best position for both the people of the country and for taxpayers money, uh, with this program? >> absolutely. >> okay. Uh, that that helps. And and it's working better in the areas that most need it. Right. Those hard to reach areas where sometimes in the mountains of east kentucky or wherever you are satellite might not be as reliable. This gets it there. And over the long run it's cheaper.
▶ 1:11:15It's better for people. And I'd love to see us go do that to deliver on that bipartisan goal of making sure everybody in this country is connected to the internet. Um, in an urban district like mine, a lot of people don't really struggle with broadband access. It's the affordability of broadband right now. And the affordable connectivity program made it just a little bit easier for families struggling to put food on the table to get by, to have internet.
▶ 1:11:42Uh, I just want to ask, uh, miss jackson fuhrman, you got 20s. What did it mean in rural communities? And and what's happening now that the funding is gone? >> well, the affordability, the acp program definitely helped people connect, stay connected. And now that it's gone, they've been disconnected in many cases. And that's it in a nutshell. >> you did it in under 20s. Thank you so much, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. finster from the great state of minnesota for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:12:10Uh, I want to welcome miss westbrook to the committee. Um, as a fellow minnesotan. >> I just want to say thank you. Thank you for what you do for our neighbors. Uh, and for the committee. Uh, what she does for our neighbors is there's no cookie cutter approach. Every hookup that you provide, every high speed internet access point that you provide, you're going through lakes, you're going through rocks, you're going through forests.
▶ 1:12:36Uh, you live in a gnarly part of the state when it comes to not a direct a to b type hookup. So thank you for being creative and figuring it out. Um, you know, access to high speed internet is the great equalizer in rural america. It provides opportunities for our small businesses to, you know, really be competitive globally. Um, and without that access, we lose opportunities in rural, rural america.
▶ 1:12:57And one of the things that I've heard from small businesses across minnesota is really just understanding the maps, the, you know, we see the different maps, whether it's from the state broadband office, whether it's from the federal level as a small business is looking at locating or expanding or, you know, really trying to figure out where they can play in that global economy. Uh, you look at one map and says, wow, this area has great access to high speed internet. And then you set up shop and you realize you don't.
▶ 1:13:26So from your perspective, just give me the lay of the land in regards to the mapping of of what we in government, you know, think to believe to be true versus what is on the ground a reality. >> sure. Thank you. Across our service territory, we receive requests on a daily basis from business owners wondering if we're going to build in their area because they don't have access to a good connection.
▶ 1:13:49We immediately go to the maps to look at, to see if there's any opportunity to be able to build to them using a federal program or a state program. And when we go there and look, they show that they're served. And this happens probably eight out of the ten times that someone calls in. And the reason that they're showing served is because, um, people are over reporting their data, company are over reporting, and at specific locations, they may serve someone in that area, but they're reporting the entire census block.
▶ 1:14:19And so, um, for us, I would say we, uh, we really are worried that this money is being spent. Um, and grant programs are being created based on incorrect data. >> so on that point, where does the buck stop for the overreporting the inaccuracies? Because, I mean, to a certain extent, if you were an outsider looking in, you would say, well, that's a bunch of malarkey. That's that's fraud, that's mis misrepresenting where the federal dollars are going.
▶ 1:14:46And it's not the reality that we see. So where does the buck stop on that? >> sure. So I think that the buck has to stop on that. We need to put serious consequences in, um, for chronic overreporting on this map data, because until that happens, I don't see it getting corrected, because what it does is it opens up those areas. Then for provider like us to come in and use federal dollars to be able to build in that area. And, and those providers don't want that to happen.
▶ 1:15:16>> so I've been, uh, as it's been stated earlier, I mean, I think this issue is a very bipartisan issue. I think you'll see support on both sides of the aisle, I think, where we can probably really hone in to make sure the dollars are getting to where they need to go is if if we just start with the maps and be honest with ourselves about we're not just going to keep throwing money against the wall, uh, and relying on maps that aren't accurate, because at the end of the day, if you are in that area that the map says you're getting the service, but, you know, in reality you're not, we're throwing good money at
▶ 1:15:47Bad. And so I think that's one area for us to start. I hear it from our small businesses all the time that they, you know, depending on what map they look at, they say they're covered. But the reality is they're not. And it has to be frustrating, not just from a small business perspective, but for a provider like you that's trying to do well and trying to, you know, really get to that farmer at the end of that three mile gravel road that on paper might say they have service, but they don't.
▶ 1:16:10And so I think that's one of the areas that we can really dig into here in congress to try to figure out how do we do better with the dollars that we're spending to make sure we're actually getting to that farmer at the end of the three mile road? And, you know, I just again, want to thank you for what you do for our neighbors. I know that, like I said, not not not two projects are alike, but you're a problem solver and you're really trying to do good for our neighbors. And I appreciate you being here. Uh, Mr. chair, I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr.
▶ 1:16:39Cisneros from the great state of california for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, like several have already shared today, I believe we are at an inflection point. Uh, much like electricity in early 20th century, internet access is a foundational technology. In the 21st century, every house and small business across this great nation should have access to the internet, not just in urban communities, but in rural communities too.
▶ 1:17:02This is becoming more important as our country increasingly relies on the internet for information, economic growth and communication. Just earlier this year, the trump administration attempted to eliminate many social security services over the phone, essentially pushing seniors in rural areas to rely on the current access to internet or travel long distances to a field office. This highlights how access to broadband is not only critical for small businesses, but for the broader communities.
▶ 1:17:30For small businesses, there is no doubt internet access can foster growth and enhance capabilities to succeed in this digital economy. I am eager to work with my colleagues across the aisle to ensure all americans have access to high speed and affordable broadband. And with that, miss jackson fuhrman, I'd like to ask you, um, a private sector plays a key role in building out broadband access.
▶ 1:17:54How do you have any notes for this committee on how the federal government can accelerate private investment or improve collaboration within the private sector to ensure underserved areas have the access to internet they need? >> I think that private investment is extremely important. I know that we have had many collaborative efforts with local governments.
▶ 1:18:18We've had partnerships with local counties, local, local municipalities. It all comes down to money, but I think that the private investment, uh, from from co-ops and other companies, coupled with these other local investments are what really makes it work whenever there's a lack of federal funding. >> so how can we use the federal funding that's out there?
▶ 1:18:43Is there any changes that we need to make to the current system right now to help the private sector continue to invest in this? >> well, I think making the funding available is key. I think that's kind of what we've heard across the panel this morning. Making the funding and the different funding mechanisms need to remain because they all have different goals and they, uh, they contribute to the success of connectivity in rural america in different ways. So continuing the funding, usf programs, the reconnect programs that make sure the money is allocated and spent and put into service.
▶ 1:19:13Those are all very important to get rural america connected and stay connected. >> all right. Thank you very much. Uh, Mr. vanderwerff, uh, your parallel between electricity and broadband is exactly what I was thinking when I heard the topic for this hearing. With ongoing conversations about next generation internet technologies, what would be the impact of a wired division digital divide on small town america if we don't start making improvements now? >> well, thank you, congressman.
▶ 1:19:42Uh, that that divide is only going to continue to, to increase. And uh, being someone who lives in a rural community has grown up and lived there for generations. One of the big things that we see is the number of young people that continue to leave our communities, and if we want to have rural america continue to exist, to be quite direct about it for another 2 or 3 generations, we have to give young people an incentive to want to stay there.
▶ 1:20:06And if they can't, uh, further their education, if they can't access, uh, online job opportunities, things like that, uh, that divide is only going to continue to grow and continue to erode, uh, rural america. >> well, thank you for that answer. Uh, miss jackson fuhrman, another question for you. Um, you know, once networks are built, how important is is it to ensure families and businesses can afford to connect to these networks?
▶ 1:20:31>> it's very important, I think, that whenever connectivity is ubiquitous, all boats rise in a community. Uh, there's opportunities for remote work, remote education, which oftentimes lead to career positions and remote work and sustainability of families in rural america. So it's extremely important. >> all right. Well, thank you all for being here today. And like, um, my colleagues have said, right, this is a bipartisan issue. It is something that all of america needs, no matter where you live in urban areas like my district is, or rural america.
▶ 1:21:01Um, this is what drives our economy now. This is how we communicate and this is how we do business. And if we don't make these investments and if we don't support these efforts to ensure that everybody has access to this, uh, it's it's only going to leave people behind. Um, you know, I think in our day and age right now, we would never stand for anybody living in a house or being anywhere without electricity or running water in their house.
▶ 1:21:27And I think we have to feel the same way right now, today about, uh, internet connectivity. So with that, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. stauber from the great state of minnesota for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman and ranking member of velasquez for holding this hearing today. You know, in rural minnesota, broadband isn't a luxury. It's actually a matter of survival.
▶ 1:21:49I've heard from businesses across my district, in all the counties and small communities who are trying to serve their communities by running restaurants, farms, auto shops and much more. Yet they can't reliably upload a payroll file or process a credit card. When a snowstorm knocks out their satellite service. It's 2025, and this can't be accepted. The status quo for our rural communities, connectivity is no longer optional, is no longer optional.
▶ 1:22:16And right now, federal broadband programs are too duplicative, too bureaucratic, and too slow to deliver results for main street. Uh, miss westbrook, you know this better than most. You serve rural minnesotans every day through ctc. Could you speak to the regulatory roadblocks like permitting delays and redundant reporting that hinder your ability to build and connect our communities? >> thank you. It is our primary roadblock during construction construction season of getting the permitting approved.
▶ 1:22:46And so in one really specific example, as you know, we hope that we can start building in april and we hope that we can go to mid-october. But then our construction season is over. So when we have six months delays for soil testing, um, that causes our project to get pushed back another year, and then we wait another six months for the state to approve it. We're now pushed back two years on that project, only because of the delays in permitting.
▶ 1:23:17>> and the two years it's going to, it becomes more expensive every year. You delay. Uh, absolutely. Right. Uh, in your testimony, you also mentioned the importance of the universal service fund in helping maintain affordable service for rural areas. That's an issue that I've worked on with you directly. Uh, and I signed on to the amicus brief defending the usf before the supreme court. And I was glad to see the court ruled in our favor preserving this essential program.
▶ 1:23:43Can you expand on why the us is so critical to rural broadband operations, and what you believe congress should do to help modernize and sustain it? >> sure. Um, and thank you for signing on to that brief. It was a very important time for us. Um, there are several pieces of legislation right now. The fair contributions act lowering broadband costs for consumers act, and then the usf working group that are working on updating programs, which would put usf on a more stable footing.
▶ 1:24:10Failing to address these concerns will accelerate the declining pool of resources available for usf. And for us specifically. We work very, very hard to not be dependent on it. I mean, we're building out and diversifying our business all the time, but at the end of the day, our business is still over 20% dependent on usf. And that number for many co-ops is a low percentage. But without that, we cut jobs, we cut services. Our networks don't stay as reliable.
▶ 1:24:39So usf does have to have reform. >> the, uh, I actually went out and toured, uh, one of your sites, uh, incredible people, incredible leadership and and, uh, trying to splice that fiber. I mean, it's it's just an amazing, uh, process. And, uh, I was very happy to be there just outside brainerd. Uh, and finally, in your testimony, you provide some you provide some specific examples of how broadband service has helped small businesses in our community.
▶ 1:25:06Can you talk about what broadband service technology you believe is most beneficial to meet the needs of small businesses in our rural communities? >> yes, and I'd love to give you a specific example. Seven sigma systems is a company that's located in brainerd, minnesota. They have 25 employees, but they run a software company. That software company touches millions of end users on their fiber, on our fiber network. And just to to take into account the 25 employees they have, they have no brick and mortar.
▶ 1:25:35And so those 25 employees are in states like georgia, indiana, wisconsin, texas, iowa. And they are all operating. All of those employees have to have reliable network in order to support that. And so that business is so exciting, um, because those people can live where they want to live and have the jobs that they have for a livelihood. Um, there. But we we believe in fiber. Representative stauber yeah.
▶ 1:26:02>> you know, the representing a rural community, um, that's it's a quality of life issue. If you look at the if you talk to realtors, I mean, the first thing people ask is, is there reliable service? That's a huge component to that. The economies that are going to drive new home buildings. Uh, first time homeownership in rural america. Uh, I remember we held a hearing, uh, in scandia, minnesota.
▶ 1:26:25We talked to a, uh, a business owner who said he would have never, uh, you know, located there had he realized there wasn't, uh, the reliable service. So we can't hear that small businesses are the engine of our economy, and you help make our economy better by laying that fiber so we can go into greater america and enjoy our quality of life. So, Mr. chair, uh, that's it, I yield back. >> thank you. >> gentleman yields back. I now recognize doctor morrison from the great state of minnesota for five minutes.
▶ 1:26:54>> uh, thank you, chairman and ranking member velasquez, for holding this hearing. And thanks to our witnesses for being here and taking the time. Um, quick shout out, of course, to my fellow minnesotan, miss westbrook. I love all the minnesota representation in the house today, Mr. chair. Thank you. Um, well, I was home in minnesota in august. I had the pleasure of meeting with many small businesses from around my district.
▶ 1:27:15We all know small business plays a vital role in our economy, and their entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial spirit helps them devise innovative solutions to the unpredictable challenges that are thrown their way. One of the critical tools that help our small businesses innovate and modernize is, of course, broadband internet. So many aspects of our lives, such as e-commerce, education, and healthcare now rely on having reliable high speed internet service.
▶ 1:27:37As a physician myself, telehealth enabled me to continue to connect with and care for my patients during the pandemic, and since then, telehealth flexibilities have continued to play a crucial role in ensuring patients are able to access the care they need, especially in rural areas. Telehealth options fill a gap in areas where in-person care is limited or specialty care is unavailable. But to access these services, patients and providers have to have reliable broadband connections. Um, so with that in mind, Mr.
▶ 1:28:04Jackson ferman, do you have suggestions on ways that the usf can be improved to ensure that rural healthcare providers have the broadband capabilities needed to provide telehealth care? >> well, we've got specific programs within usf that are designed for specific initiatives, such as e-rate and and other health services. So I think that if if that were were a priority, I think that potentially a specific fund could be set aside for something like that.
▶ 1:28:33But in the in the greater realm, if the bead funds are expended the way that they're supposed to be expended to achieve what they're supposed to achieve, we should have connectivity. It's an internet for all program. Right. And and we think that there may be holes left post bead that reconnect in different funding mechanisms can help fill.
▶ 1:28:53But I think that all of that has to do with, uh, deploying the facilities and then having specific usf programs to help people stay connected and to continue to maintain those networks going forward. >> thank you. I appreciate that answer. Um, in june, the trump administration issued a policy notice making substantive changes to bead to the bead program.
▶ 1:29:16One of the most significant changes was de-prioritizing, the installation of highly reliable fiber optic fiber optic cables and allowing funding to go to satellite broadband technology providers. This change opened the way for starlink, america's largest satellite broadband provider and a subsidiary of spacex, to receive funds for bead projects. Miss jackson furman, again to you, can you discuss the impact of those changes? >> sure.
▶ 1:29:42Uh, the biggest impact for providers such as wcnt was losing the fiber preference in allowing fixed wireless and satellite specifically to compete for the funds. The short answer is that it will create a landscape of haves and have nots for fiber connectivity, which is faster, more reliable, and scalable. So, uh, some folks will be left with a inferior service, and that's unfortunate.
▶ 1:30:09So a specific impact to wcnt is we lost, uh, the opportunity to serve serviceable locations that we would have otherwise served with fiber. >> that is concerning. Thank you. Um, and good to know. I'd, of course, be remiss if I didn't mention that starlink is owned by elon musk. And these changes made by the trump administration came shortly after Mr. musk's tenure as a, quote, special government employee.
▶ 1:30:35Um, in the lead up to the passage of the budget reconciliation bill, the majority attempted to condition funding on states agreeing to not regulate artificial intelligence for ten years. I'm concerned about how this would threaten online safety, jeopardize data privacy, and spread misinformation. Um, but I would like to hear from you, miss jackson furman, on how linking program funding to an unrelated condition might hinder broadband deployment.
▶ 1:31:01>> in my opinion, ai is a separate issue from funding, and they shouldn't be linked at all. Uh, I obviously is a tool that we all use in day to day life, and it's exciting and it's new. I think that it does need to have some boundaries on the sides of it to make sure it's used appropriately. But ultimately, I believe bead funding and ai are completely unlinked. >> I agree with you. Thank you, miss jackson furman. And thank you, Mr. chair and our witnesses, I yield back.
▶ 1:31:31>> judy chu lady yields back. And it is like being at the minnesota state fair with all these minnesotans here today. Uh, I now recognize Mr. alford from the great state of missouri for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chair. I'm not from minnesota, but another m state, missouri. Good to have you with us. I have the honor of representing missouri's fourth congressional district. Largely rural, 24 counties in the heart of missouri and the heart of america.
▶ 1:32:00Right now, 15 federal agencies with more than 100 different programs have been working to try to make sure that every american has access to broadband. Despite this, I meet folks each and every time I'm back in the district and they ask me one thing when are we getting broadband? Farmers cannot use modern technology. Families cannot access telemedicine.
▶ 1:32:29Small businesses are not willing to relocate to rural areas because they don't have the tools necessary to conduct small business. In 2025, many of my constituents lack the rural broadband. About 70,000 families. That's a lot. And this is despite billions of dollars being spent on attempts to expand rural broadband, including the most recent tranche of $42 billion from the biden administration's infrastructure and jobs act.
▶ 1:32:58It is unacceptable, in my opinion, that 7 million homes and businesses, primarily in rural areas like central missouri, still lack access to rural broadband. Miss westbrook, thank you for being here today. Billions of taxpayer dollars, as we've said, have already been spent on broadband expansion. And yet rural communities still do not have adequate access. Why is that?
▶ 1:33:28>> well, I will give you my professional opinion on that. I believe that the reason that they don't have access yet is because, um, the way certain programs have been administered, that the programs have given money to companies that don't follow through on the work that they say they're going to do, or they take shortcuts, they don't put in the robust connections that should be put in, and then they're lacking that connectivity still in rural america.
▶ 1:33:54And we see it over and over with large corporations that say x and they don't do x. And that's very concerning. Um, when you live in small rural communities and you hear that often. >> are there any consequences to that lack of fulfillment for what they are really charged with doing with the federal government's money? >> I am unaware of any. >> Mr. todd, you're the ceo of, uh, nextech, a company bringing fiber to rural communities in nearby kansas.
▶ 1:34:21Given your advocacy for broadband funding reform, what legislative or regulatory burden do you believe most slows deployment in areas like my district? >> thank you for the question. And I would say what would slow things down is, is generally the permitting process. Um, as you know, there are very there are different levels of permitting and right of way access that must be navigated.
▶ 1:34:45You've got different programs within the federal government which are not in sync, but you also have state and county and municipality codes that you have to work with. All of those can present delays in getting the permitting necessary to build out a project that leads to delays and and increased cost, unfortunately. >> as I stated, more than 100 programs have been set up to try to get rural broadband to everyone.
▶ 1:35:13Can you explain how a streamlined effort could help providers and their customers in rural communities? I assume some of this would be overcoming some of these regulations that are stifling the growth of expansion. >> I believe consistency would simplify things. Streamlining and consistency would would make a difference. Uh, when a different program follows different rules and how you approach not only, uh, presenting a project, but being approved and then acting on it, then that creates complications.
▶ 1:35:45So uniformity and consistency would be a great help. >> Mr. worf, we have one minute left. There are thousands of folks just like you in my district who are forced to adapt and attempt to run their small businesses without full access to broadband. How has this lack of access to broadband? How has that affected your business? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:36:07Uh, we've been fortunate so far that we've been able to locate facilities and locate people in areas where we have access to at least something as far as broadband goes. But an overarching part of this conversation is not just broadband, but cellular access, because oftentimes, uh, for example, our billing and software and everything for our ag retail facilities, those orders are all taken on ipads. So either it's a hotspot or cellular connectivity. But the software itself is based in illinois and operates all on cloud.
▶ 1:36:34So we we can't operate without high speed, reliable internet. And so occasionally that forces us to reconsider where we want to locate a facility. >> thank you. Thank you all for your answers and for being here today. And I yield back. Chair. >> gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. tran from the great state of california for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Miss rosebrock, last year your company ctc announced a partnership with the communication workers of america to create the first broadband center apprenticeship program for minnesota and other states in the region.
▶ 1:37:04How beneficial are programs like these to both workers and providers like yours? >> it's extremely important, especially in rural communities, that we can provide, uh, young new workers coming into programs, um, with the apprenticeship program. In this case, we had a tremendous experience in working with the cwa. Um, we had our first two that have graduated from the from the apprenticeship program.
▶ 1:37:31They both came straight out of high school into the apprenticeship program and are already working in a great job with a great income. So it's been super successful. And my thanks to the cwa for working with us. >> that's so good to hear. Um, how can the federal government better maintain and expand its support for registered broadband apprenticeship programs like yours? >> funding funding mechanisms are needed.
▶ 1:37:55Um, today that program is really grassroots and we're trying to fund it ourselves with them and us involved. But we just we need more help and we need more awareness of how helpful these apprenticeship programs are. >> I agree with that. Thank you for your testimony.
▶ 1:38:11Uh, for both miss jackson and miss russ brock, for more than 30 years, the universal service funds has been a critical federal program for working families, ensuring millions of americans have access to broadband in the most rural and underserved areas in california and across the country. Reliable, high speed internet connection isn't a luxury, and it's vital to how modern small businesses operate.
▶ 1:38:34Thankfully, scotus upheld the constitutionality of the program, but now congress must look towards improving the program. Um, miss jackson fuhrman first, uh, in your respect, in your respective written testimonies, uh, you highlighted the importance of universal service fund. Could you, uh, could you first discuss how congress could modernize and strengthen, uh, the universal service fund and ensure it continues to meet the evolving connectivity needs of all americans? >> yes. Thank you.
▶ 1:39:02So the, uh, major modernization does need to happen in the funding mechanism piece of that. So the base needs to be broadened for who contributes to the fund right now. Uh, the majority of the funding comes from long distance services on a voice bills. And that pool of revenue is ever, uh, retracting. And so the facf factor is exceeding 36%. Some think it will go to 39% for the fourth quarter of this year.
▶ 1:39:31That's not sustainable. So expanding the base contribution to edge providers in all isp providers would bolster the fund, make the support predictable for the foreseeable future, and help us all operate with confidence when we're making 20 year investments. >> amazing. Miss westbrook, anything to add? >> I would just add that the modernization of usf is critical for our rural communities to have that support.
▶ 1:39:59>> thank you so much for your testimony, for all the witnesses, for being here. Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. I now recognize Mr. downing from the great state of montana for five minutes. >> Mr. chair, thank you very much for holding this. Thank you, witnesses, for being here. Uh, my home state of montana is one of the least densely populated places in the country. We have really, really long roads, and, uh, we lag behind the rest of the country in broadband access.
▶ 1:40:28Only 73% of our households have access, which is below the national average of about 95%. This lack of access sets back rural job creators competing in our modern economy. Reliable connection to the internet is crucial for small businesses to market their products, uh, to recruit talent and, you know, effectively run their, their operations.
▶ 1:40:53So this one to the whole panel, you know, from your experience both as broadband providers and as rural business owners, what impacts have you seen broadband expansion have on rural small businesses more viable for outside investments? You know, open that to the panel, miss westbrook. >> yes, I'd like to specifically talk about nature link, which is a company that is in our service territory.
▶ 1:41:20They're a small resort and they have the ability to hold corporate functions there. When they went into that area, the services that were there weren't what they needed to attract those, uh, large conferences to their, uh, to their resort. And so once we got the connectivity there, they were able to start booking those, and now we're bringing in those dollars into our local economy. >> thank you. Anyone else, Mr. todd? >> thank you sir.
▶ 1:41:47Um, with regards to entrepreneurship, we've seen the ability for young people or folks that are interested in starting and growing a business facilitated by fiber broadband capabilities, and without that, they would be somewhere else. They choose our area because of the infrastructure that we have, the connectivity that they can have access to.
▶ 1:42:09So small businesses grow, entrepreneurs are able to start businesses, and it just continues to benefit the community as a whole. >> right. Thank you. Uh, Mr. vanderwerf. >> thank you. Congressman. Um, I think the the thing to recognize from my perspective on this issue is a small business owner. You know, oftentimes when we think about, uh, business growth with internet connectivity, it's it's sort of the big sexy things like starting an e-commerce business or a web based business. But in reality, it's your local hvac contractor.
▶ 1:42:40It's the local lumber yard. Simply being able to go on linkedin and look for employees, it's being able to run payroll software. It's being able to order parts and services off the internet. It's not necessarily, uh, a necessity to have for a business to be able to create a digital storefront. It's just a necessity of having a cloud based business. I mean, you can't even get quickbooks as a desktop software anymore. It's all cloud based.
▶ 1:43:06And if you don't have some kind of 5g or higher connectivity, it's not going to work right. >> the something to add, miss jackson freeman. >> we had a seed company that was a large user of our data services, and they attracted outside investment, and they were bought by a much bigger company, a worldwide company. So that's opportunity that brings it brings opportunity for folks to grow when they have access to the worldwide stage through our fiber connectivity. >> right. I appreciate that.
▶ 1:43:33Um, you know, it's important to me that we have access for entrepreneurs that are in less served areas, which is, you know, a big part of my state making sure that we have the connectivity and can attract the financing, because that's obviously a key part to that. So, uh, you know, I introduced earlier this year, uh, the expanding access to capital for rural job creators act, trying to solve some of these problems. But a big part is this is this connectivity as well.
▶ 1:43:58But in the interest of time, I'm going to move on to a different topic on, uh, you know, the impact of broadband on farming. You know, farming is a crucial sector in rural economies across our country, including in montana. Uh, I'm in the central and eastern part of the state. Small farmers and ranchers are increasingly reliant on high tech methods and machinery in order to remain competitive.
▶ 1:44:21Precision agriculture tools like, you know, gps, autonomous equipment, drones, soil sensors all these depend on broadband for accessing data and operating effectively. So I'll start with Mr. vanderwerf as unreliable broadband limited your ability to adopt these tools on your farm in rural michigan. >> it's created challenges for us to do. So. You have to remember when we are creating data out in the field, we're creating terabytes of data at a time.
▶ 1:44:48And that data, even if it's remotely uplinked to a cloud based server, as a lot of it is, you then have to be able to access that. So even if I have great connectivity through cellular on the equipment, I still have to have a broadband connection at my office or this data is useless to me. >> right? We're seeing more and more demand for this, and unfortunately I could go deep into this, but I've run out of time. So on that, Mr. chair, I yield. >> chairman yields back. I now recognize miss goodlander from the great state of new hampshire for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:45:17Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today for this important hearing. I'm. We're all back from our districts. I spent 40 days and 40 nights pounding the pavement across new hampshire, and the issue of reliable, affordable internet access came up pretty much everywhere I went in conversations with family farmers. Um, and I'm grateful that you're here today to to help us dig in on that front. Um, rural entrepreneurs, small businesses of all kinds.
▶ 1:45:45And, you know, in new hampshire, in my district, um, a lot of a lot of the the challenge comes from we see just a situation where we've got weather dependent reliability.
▶ 1:45:57Um, when it comes to, to the internet, we we had an opportunity through the bipartisan infrastructure bill, uh, which, which paved the way for my state to, to really deliver broadband across the board, um, $191 million that has been put on the table for the state of new hampshire, uh, our state on a bipartisan basis as as we always work, put together a great five year plan.
▶ 1:46:28Um, and just last month, changes to the bead program, which is really the lifeline for, for my state, um, to, to be able to achieve what we all want to see, which is universal broadband access that is reliable and affordable. The bead program is critical to that. Furman jeff jackson furman. I know you have applied for and the other witnesses have you all applied for for bead grants or worked with the program?
▶ 1:46:55So I just want to ask and Mr. chairman, I'd like to enter into to the record a letter I wrote to secretary lutnick last month, um, about this specifically, I want to thank you very much. I want it hasn't been received a response yet. I'm. We have an opportunity here with this $191 million in the state of new hampshire. We've got a great plan that was already approved.
▶ 1:47:21It's it's waiting for us and waiting for the grantees across my state, um, who've gone through a lot of trouble to, to navigate complicated federal programs. And I'm all for cutting the red tape and and and waste, fraud and abuse wherever we can find it. But, uh, miss jackson furman, can you tell us a little bit about your experience with the bead program and what it means for the goal? We all we all want to achieve? >> sure. Um. Thank you.
▶ 1:47:45The bead program is the fiber preference was removed. I know I said that before, but that was that was a really large issue for us providers like us in rural america. The fiber preference being removed satellite.
▶ 1:48:02While we think there's a place for all technologies, fixed wireless and satellite alike, fiber technology is the considered the future proof technology with the full scalability and robust reliability that fixed wireless and satellite do not offer.
▶ 1:48:18So it it makes sense to spend the dollars in a program like bead to provide sure connectivity, as opposed to taking a gamble on what might be. And and so I think that creating a system where not everybody has access to the same technology is unfortunate. >> miss westbrook, can you talk a little bit about your experience with bead and and what disruptions you've seen in this freeze on federal funds?
▶ 1:48:49>> sure. So the bead program has been complicated as a provider to navigate. We have spent um, many nights and working on a bead application. We were recently preliminary awarded the $20 million. But if that fiber preference wouldn't have changed, I believe that we would have been awarded much more than that. We didn't apply for certain areas specifically because we knew that the match that we had would not be, uh, would not be the match that we would need to have.
▶ 1:49:19And without being able to get a waiver. So we chose not to apply in certain areas. >> um, well, welcome and all of your ideas on how we can make these programs work better. I've, I've got a bill, a bipartisan bill, um, with congressman weed, the office of rural affairs enhancement act. It's it's an office within the small business administration. I wanted to I've got 30s left.
▶ 1:49:42Ask, um, our witnesses, just if anyone has thoughts on how the sba can be a more effective force multiplier and operator in, um, helping to connect small, rural, small businesses with what is theirs, these, these federal programs, um, and funding streams. I would welcome your ideas since we are, after all, the small business committee. >> I'll jump in here.
▶ 1:50:08So I think that we would ask that, uh, individually, as congressmen and women, whenever the contribution reform, uh, vote comes up in congress, we need your help in order to have contribution reform so that ufsf remains sustainable into the foreseeable future. As far as the small business committee, I don't have anything to ask right now. But as members of congress, I do. >> thank you very much. I yield back, Mr. chair. >> lady yields back.
▶ 1:50:35And I'd like to thank our witnesses for their testimony and for appearing before us today. You all did a really good job. Your hometowns and states should be proud of you. Uh, without objection, members have five legislative days to submit additional materials and written requests for the witnesses to the chair, which will be forwarded to the witnesses. I ask the witnesses to please respond promptly. And if there's no further business. Without objection, the committee is adjourned.