▶ 0:06:20Ladies and gentlemen, the committee will come to order. Welcome and thank you for joining today's hearing entitled USDA's Rural Development Delivering Vital Programs and Services to Rural America. After brief opening remarks, members will receive testimony from our witnesses today. A really excellent panel. And then the hearing will be open to questions. In consultation with the ranking member, Mr. Davis, and pursuant to rule 11E, I want to make members of the subcommittee aware that members of the full committee will be joining us today.
▶ 0:06:50Today, we're going to hear from uh great rural leaders and former USDA rural development officials about why the programs and services that uh rural development provide to rural America are so incredibly important. This builds on a series of rural development hearings that this subcommittee has had in recent years. Last Congress, uh, we examined programs that support broadband, energy, water systems, rural businesses and industry, rural cooperatives, and biio manufacturing.
▶ 0:07:19USDA rural development is uniquely positioned to serve our rural communities. Today we'll learn about the various programs that provide that provide needed investment in our rural communities, essential infrastructure, small businesses, and economic development. So, let's just highlight a few so we're all on the same page. We've got the community facilities loan and grant programs. Uh those are crucial tools to provide essential community infrastructure in rural America.
▶ 0:07:46Projects include fire and rescue stations, village and town halls, health care clinics, hospitals, adult and child care centers, assisted living facilities, rehabilitation centers, public buildings, schools, libraries, and many other community-based initiatives. Just it's hard to imagine what our rural communities would look like without them. The value added producer grant program is really an unsung hero of the RD programs.
▶ 0:08:10Farmers and ranchers are eligible for this program that helps them enter value added activities to generate new products, create and expand marketing opportunities, and essentially increase income. The rural development uh the rural economic development loan and grant programs provide funding for rural projects through local utility organizations.
▶ 0:08:30Uh, USDA provides zerointerest loans to local utilities, which they in turn pass through to local businesses for projects that'll create and retain employment in rural areas. The rural business investment program promotes economic development and creates jobs, jobs, and wealth opportunities by supporting the equity capital investment needs in rural America.
▶ 0:08:52The rural micro entrepreneur assistance program provides loans and grants to microenterprise development organizations, MDOS's, to help microenterprises start up and grow through a rural microloan revolving fund and provide training and technical assistance to microloan borrowers and micro entrepreneurs. That is lots of acronyms, but also a lot of good for real America. Most of these programs were reauthorized in the Farm, Food, and National Security Act of 2024.
▶ 0:09:21and so they have an expiration date. As we move forward with reauthorizing uh expiring USDA RD programs, the feedback and the conversations that we're having here today will help us improve these vital programs so that we can even better serve rural America uh and and the rural communities that all of us here represent. I want to thank each of our witnesses for your service to rural America and for the perspectives you bring today. I've got a couple of personal friends on the panel and I'm so I'm excited about that as well.
▶ 0:09:51We'll we'll talk about that in a minute. I do want to recognize the distinguished ranking member for some of the uh for any remarks he would like to make. Just as a note, we have uh he and I have generally run this the subcommittee in a bipartisan manner. Both of us kind of uh managing serving as chairman of the subcommittee. And so I don't want anybody to get nervous assuming the minority party has seized control of the dis. Uh if Mr. Davis recognizes you, that is just as valid as a recognition from Mr. Johnson.
▶ 0:10:20So with that, my friend, Mr. Davis,
▶ 0:10:22thank you so much, Mr. Chair. It's truly an honor to be on this journey with you. And I must admit, as a mayor, growing up in Snow Hill, North Carolina, and eventually um making my way to Congress, one of the things I had on mind in my mind was rural development. And we realize the importance of rural development. Rural development is the heartbeat.
▶ 0:10:48It's the heartbeat of many communities across this nation and especially in a district like the first congressional district. 22 counties, 100% of the counties are rural. Um so um we're here for a really important reason today.
▶ 0:11:08Um, and I think about the investments that are made and as these investments are made in rural America, it makes a huge difference. This past Saturday, this past Saturday, I showed up at Nashville Fire Department um for the ribbon cutting of fire station number two. It could not have happened without rural development.
▶ 0:11:36The community facilities program granted help um for this fire station. Um the community facilities program provides affordable funding to build and construct essential rural community facilities such as firehouses, police stations, and community centers. Another successful program, and that's really important to me, is the Reconnect loan and grant program.
▶ 0:11:59Oh god, I can't tell you when I think about living in eastern North Carolina and broadband and the need to make important connections. Um so uh these are just some of the programs I could continue on, you know, ARBG in terms of rural business development um development grants. Um these programs are essential.
▶ 0:12:21So when we come together as a subcommittee to have meaningful conversations, um these conversations are dire and critical as we talk about rural America. So uh with that in mind, uh Mr. Chair, I I look forward to having a wonderful subcommittee meeting today.
▶ 0:12:42And I yield Uh let's recognize uh my neighbor in Minnesota, the ranking member of the full committee, Miss Craig, for any comments she'd like to make.
▶ 0:12:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm still waiting on you to offer that gavl to me, too. Uh we'll talk to the chairman about that when he gets here. Thank you so much, Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Davis for holding today's hearing, and a thank you to our witnesses for being here today to discuss one of the most pressing issues facing this committee, uplifting and supporting rural America. A special uh welcome to my former colleague uh Sochi Torres Small and former under secretary of USDA.
▶ 0:13:20It's so good to see you here and back uh in the building again. Rural America is frequently portrayed as a monolith, especially by those in DC. We too often fail to recognize its diversity, not just of people, but of industry, opportunity, and challenges. Farmers, their families, and their businesses are the engines of small towns across Minnesota.
▶ 0:13:46But those same places are also the home to teachers and nurses, manufacturers, and small businesses. And right now, too many of them are hurting. If you're a farmer, you're dealing with high cost, low prices, and not enough markets. If you're opening a business for the first time, you may have no access to high-speed internet and face severe workforce shortages.
▶ 0:14:10And if you're raising a family there or taking care of an aging parent, the cost of groceries and health care are increasing and your ability to access a child care center, a daycare, a doctor close to home is getting more difficult by the day. You know, my colleagues so-called one big beautiful bill in my view is a direct assault on rural health care. It slashed Medicaid by nearly $1 trillion dollar.
▶ 0:14:39The rural health care fund that my colleagues are touting as a new investment does not come close to correcting the damage that the bill will do in rural America, both to our health infrastructure and other areas. In my home state of Minnesota, rural clinics are already closing because of these seismic Medicaid changes, forcing people to travel many, many miles further to receive medical care. It doesn't end there.
▶ 0:15:08This week, House Republicans are pushing a government funding bill through the House that would increase health care premiums by as much as 90% in many rural areas by allowing the ACA tax credits to expire, hitting many rural communities, family farmers right in the pocketbook. There's no reason why we can't fix the problem right now.
▶ 0:15:31These policies do not grow local economies, lower cost, or improve access to the critical services that our rural communities need. Rural America needs meaningful investments, not cuts to hospitals, which are often the largest employers in many rural counties. It needs access to reliable, high-speed internet so that farmers and entrepreneurs can access the information and services that they need to thrive.
▶ 0:15:59It needs adequately qualified teachers, child care providers, and affordable housing so that rural communities can grow. It needs new economic opportunities so that our kids don't leave for college in the quote unquote big city and never come back. It needs vibrant main streets so that rural businesses and communities can grow together. It needs trade policy that doesn't undermine American agriculture.
▶ 0:16:26The seeds of those investments start here in this subcommittee. They grow at USDA Rural Development. They bear fruit in small towns around this country. I'm glad we are taking a comprehensive look at what USDA rural development programs can do. While these programs are beneficial, they do not exist in a vacuum. Economic opportunities in rural America depend on the basics like access to health care, a good education and jobs.
▶ 0:16:56And our discussion cannot lose sight of that because on all of those fronts, Republican policies are failing. I look forward to hearing from today's panel on how USDA rural development programs can support rural communities during these difficult times. Thank you again, Mr. chairman for being here, all of our witnesses, and I yield back.
▶ 0:17:24Okay. Our first witness today is Mrs. um B. Bran, who is a former deputy under secretary for rural development at USDA. And our next witness is the honorable Paul um Him Himmel um who is a county commissioner for Potter County, Pennsylvania Board of Commissioners.
▶ 0:17:49Commissioner Himl is testifying on behalf of the National Association of Uh our third witness has unimpeachable uh rural credentials. Uh she and I served 20 years ago as board members on the South Dakota Rural Development Council and she's been working uh ever since then to make rural communities stronger. Uh it's my friend Miss Lynn Keller Forbes, the executive director of the Southeastern Council of Governments.
▶ 0:18:15Miss Forbes is testifying on behalf of the National Association of Development Uh and then we also have uh Oh, they they said you get to introduce Soidito. That seems unfair. We're fighting over who introduced
▶ 0:18:29We're fighting over Well, I'm going to say a couple sentences and then you can do the real intro. When you run for Congress, there are a lot of you think about a lot of the things that winning may help you secure. Uh you just don't think about the fact that you're going to secure some friends uh once you get elected to Congress. And indeed, so Tortois Small is an a wonderful person and is a personal friend. And with that, Mr. Davis, I guess you get the honor.
▶ 0:18:54Uh well, let me say to a person that's um no stranger um to um Congress and definitely not a stranger to this committee um that served our country in so many ways and a person that knows where Wilson, North Carolina is. It's so good to see you. All right. Uh very good. Thanks to all our witnesses for joining us today. We're going to proceed to your testimony.
▶ 0:19:23As you all know, you're going to get 5 minutes. The timer in front of you will countd down to zero at which point your time has expired. Uh when you hit zero or you know, we'll we'll kind of tap gently like that. It gets increasingly loud and uh Mr. Davis is particularly heavy-handed if you go more than about 15 seconds over. So with that, Ms. Brand uh please begin when you are ready. Good morning.
▶ 0:19:53Um, Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Davis, Vice Chairman Rose, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the critical role that USDA Rule Development plays in strengthening rural America. My name is Betty Bran, CEO and founder of Strategic Consulting LLC in Reno, Virginia.
▶ 0:20:16Over my career, including more than 35 years in the farm credit system and leadership roles in USDA rural development, my mission has always been the same, to help agriculture and rural communities USDA rural development manages more than $200 billion in loans, guarantees, and grants, delivering over 40 billion each year to communities of fewer than 50,000 people.
▶ 0:20:45These investments finance hospitals, schools, renewable energy, broadband, and businesses of every size. Rural development programs don't just provide funding. They transform communities.
▶ 0:21:00They're the difference between a hospital staying open, a small business hiring instead of closing, and a farmer finding a new market for their Earlier this year, the National Rule Lenders Association released a landmark assessment of the business and industry, the BNI loan guarantee program. The findings confirm what rural communities always know already know that these programs work.
▶ 0:21:29From 2014 to 2022, the BNI program created more than 750,000 jobs in rural America and at a federal cost of just $438 per job. Counties with BNI investment saw sustained employment growth, higher wages, a stronger GDP per capita for years after the initial investment.
▶ 0:21:55A 1% increase in BNI investment translates into a 0.55% increase in state sales tax revenue, a direct return to local and state economies. These are not abstract numbers. They show that rural development programs provide one of the highest returns on investment of any federal initiative serving rural America.
▶ 0:22:19In Virginia, the Maryland Virginia Milk Producers Cooperative used a BNI guarantee loan to purchase and upgrade a processing Nearly 1,000 dairy farmers benefited. 178 jobs were retained, and the region kept a vital market for milk. And it's the Miola brand that many of you in this area may recognize.
▶ 0:22:42In Minnesota, RD financed a $21.6 6 million public safety building, ensuring faster emergency response and improved disaster readiness. In Tennessee, Claybook Farms used a value added producer grant to launch a branded Angus Beef Line, adding jobs and opening new markets.
▶ 0:23:04In South Dakota, a $27,000 microloan launched Wild Ground Coffee, bringing life, new life to Main Street. These are examples of how RD meets communities where they are. Whether helping a century old cooperative stay competitive or giving a startup coffee shop a chance to succeed. What makes rural development unique is that it combines fiscal responsibility with community re resilience.
▶ 0:23:34Most programs leverage private sector lending, ensuring that taxpayers dollars stretch farther and risk are shared. At the same time, rural development programs address areas where the private market alone cannot carry the full load, like healthc care access, renewable energy adoption, and critical Demand continues to outpace funding.
▶ 0:23:56In 2023 and 2024, more than 90% of the BNI bud program budget authority was utilized, the highest on record, demonstrating both efficiency and an unmet need. Rural development programs may finance a hospital, a meat processing plant, or even a coffee shop, but the purpose is the same. Expanding opportunity in rural America.
▶ 0:24:20They revitalize communities, create and sustain jobs, modernize essential services, and give farmers and entrepreneurs the chance to compete and succeed. Most importantly, they ensure that economic opportunity is not defined by zip code. Thank you for your time today and your commitment to rule America. I look forward to your
▶ 0:24:43Thank you, ma'am. Commissioner, you are
▶ 0:24:48Well, Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Davis, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I want to thank you for holding today's hearing. Um, I'd like to share some ideas to strengthen the partnership between counties and our federal partners to try to better serve rural America. My name is Paul Hyiml and I'm a commissioner in Potter County, Pennsylvania.
▶ 0:25:10I'm here on behalf of the National Association of Counties, but I want to point out that our county has a grand total of less than 16,000 residents countywide. So, we are truly rural. Uh, county governments though are on the front lines in rural America, providing essential services that make it possible for our residents to stay, work, and thrive in our communities.
▶ 0:25:34Given our limited staff, our tight budgets, we rely on strong federal partnerships to get the job done. Now, USDA Rural Development is our most important federal partner in this work. This year alone, the RD has invested 26 billion dollar in $60,000 projects across rural America. in Potter County.
▶ 0:25:59Dating back to 2015, USDA has helped fund 95 projects supporting our energy systems, our community facilities, our small businesses, and affordable housing for working families. Without this backing, these projects would have been out of reach for our local communities. But too often, the communities that need USDA the most are the ones that are least able to access it.
▶ 0:26:27That's why I'm here today to urge Congress to modernize, streamline, and expand USDA RD programs so that all rural counties have the tools we need to build stronger, more resilient communities. I'm going to put forward four practical reforms to for Congress to modernize the RD programs and empower rural counties like ours. First is a fasttrack pathway for small dollar projects.
▶ 0:26:57Congress should direct USDA to develop a simplified application and approval process, allowing those of us with limited local resources to quickly secure funding for time-sensitive local needs. Second, make pre-development costs eligible across RD programs. Counties often pay upfront for site selection, feasibility studies, environmental review, and more before we can use the funding awards. That creates steep barriers to entry.
▶ 0:27:27Congress should consider allowing these pre-development costs as eligible expenses under ID grant loan awards to support this early stage development. Third, build a single online portal. Applicants could check eligibility. They could track applications and get real-time support. That one-stop system would cut the red tape, improve transparency, and better serve communities like ours with such limited staff.
▶ 0:27:56And finally, invest in rural capacity building in the next farm Local governments can't leverage federal resources without staff, planning, capacity, and partnerships. We face in our rural county an individual who might be tasked with three or four major responsibilities. In larger counties, they could have four or five people doing those three or four responsibilities.
▶ 0:28:20It's simply impossible to navigate the bureaucratic process sometimes when you're not properly staffed and we can only afford so much We also asked the committee to conduct oversight over USDA's internal reorganizational efforts. Counties support the department's goals of improving efficiency, but any reorganization must preserve the USDA's fieldbased network and staff capacity. This is very important.
▶ 0:28:50Field staff are trusted partners. They've been that way for decades. Their knowledge, their relationships cannot be replaced by We must preserve what makes USDA effective. its field offices, its local partnerships, and its deep understanding of rural America. Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Davis, counties stand ready to do our part.
▶ 0:29:16With a strong USDA RD backed by a new modernized farm bill, we can ensure that every county, no matter its size or capacity, has a fair shot at success. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Commissioner HL. At this time, we're going to recognize Executive Director Lynn Keller Forbes for five minutes.
▶ 0:29:41Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Davis, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you this morning on this important topic. I'm Lynn Keller Forbes. I'm the president and the CEO of the Southeastern Council of Governments and the Southeastern Development Foundation in Sou Falls, South Dakota. and I'm honored to testify on behalf of the National Association of Development Organizations known as NATO. I grew up on the Cheyenne River Indian Reservation in South Dakota where my parents operated a farm and ranch.
▶ 0:30:08When I was young, we hauled our water until rural water was finally expanded. Raw water was a gamecher not only for our family but for our livestock. We didn't have a telephone until I was in the second grade and the lines were finally expanded to reach us. Both of these events were only possible because of the federal government's investment in rural America. So, my love for rural America and the advocacy for a strong farm bill runs deep.
▶ 0:30:32For the past 25 years, I've worked with rural communities and businesses across southeastern South Dakota, helping them plan, finance, and implement development projects that improve infrastructure, expand access to capital, and support long-term economic growth. Our mission is simple. We want to ensure that even the smallest communities and businesses have a trusted partner in building economic resilience and prosperity to help sustain rural America. One of our most vital partners in this work is USDA's rural development mission area known as RD.
▶ 0:31:02Today I want to highlight the critical role regional development organizations or RDOS's play in supporting rural communities and offer some practical recommendations to strengthen RD's programs and services. RDOS's, also known as councils of governments, planning districts, and regional to planning councils, are multi-jurisdictional entities that serve as trusted intermediaries for rural counties, cities, towns, and businesses. We help communities and businesses access federal resources, deliver essential services, and plan for long-term success.
▶ 0:31:33In many cases, RDOS's are the lead applicants or technical assistance provider for RD's programs. We conduct feasibility studies. We write grant applications, manage complex projects from start to finish, help develop housing, and provide financing for businesses that would not otherwise be considered bankable. Rural America faces unique challenges. Nearly one in seven Americans live in rural areas, which span threequarters of the nation's land mass.
▶ 0:31:58These communities often struggle with limited infrastructure, higher poverty rates, fewer job opportunities, and reduced access to broadband, health care, and housing. Despite these challenges, RDOS's help rural communities and businesses navigate federal systems and unlock funding for transformative projects. We work closely with RD to deliver programs like the water and waste disposal program, the community facilities program, the rural business development grant program, and the inter intermediary relending program.
▶ 0:32:26These programs are not just financial tools, they're lifelines. Let me share a few examples. In Dalton, South Dakota, a community of less than a hundred people, we helped TMRO Water secure a grant through the water and waste disposal program to rehabilitate lime drawing beds that were damaged by a deratio storm. Across the country, RDO's are making similar impacts. In New York, a NATO member used RD funds to launch a small business technical assistance program.
▶ 0:32:51In Louisiana, another member received funding to develop a strategic growth model along the I49 corridor. And in Montana, an RDO led a coalition securing $10 million through the MPILP program to strengthen local processing capacity and expand economic development opportunities. These examples show how RD's flexible placebased approach empowers communities to structure investments around local needs, often filling gaps the private sector cannot or will not address.
▶ 0:33:21As Congress considers reauthorization of the farm bill, I urge you to prioritize the core programs that create jobs, improve infrastructure, and support small businesses. Specifically, we recommend protect key programs that rural communities have come to rely on. Improve access and flexibility to empower rural communities to fully participate in the programs by removing unnecessary barriers. Strengthen the capacity of field offices and regional partners like RDOS's to ensure that support services are responsive and tailored to rural needs.
▶ 0:33:51Preserve USDA's local footprint as USDA reorganizes. Maintaining field staff and communities is essential. RDOS's can extend RD's reach, but we urge Congress to invest in these partnerships. DeFederalizing IRP. Our baggs and EDA funds have been defederalized with reduced USDA staff and limited resources. Now is the time to discuss defederalizing IRP funding as well. RD's programs are more than infrastructure investments.
▶ 0:34:16They level the playing field for communities and businesses that often lack access to capital, capacity, and partnerships. As you renegotiate the farm bill, I encourage you to prioritize the tools that enable rural America to grow and succeed. Rural communities have never lacked vision or determination. What they need is a sustained federal partnership to build strong, resilient economies that support families, attract investment, and ensure future generations can thrive. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify.
▶ 0:34:46I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:48Thank you. And to the 15th, USDA Deputy Secretary Torres Small. Five minutes.
▶ 0:34:55Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Davis, and Ranking Member Craig, and members of the subcommittee. It's an absolute joy to be back here with you. Whether it's supporting local meat processors through the ups and downs of cattle cycles in South Dakota or working with chicken farmers on innovative energy solutions to power towns in North Carolina. I've witnessed how you put rural development into practice with the people you serve.
▶ 0:35:21You know that local knowhow needs to be in the driver's seat and the government's job is to support that vision. You've also seen how vital USDA staff are to that work. Rural development is the only agency in DC with a focus on rural America. That experience matters.
▶ 0:35:41I've worked with staff whose early experience providing housing or water loans in rural places has made them more able to stretch f flexibilities in the midst of a disaster or save thousands of dollars on applications and reporting for rural But Doge cuts and oversightes and recent staff departure incentives hobble an already struggling mission.
▶ 0:36:05While I know this subcommittee isn't responsible for staff funding, your oversight is Many state and field offices are currently operating at half capacity. In some places, it's worse, like Mississippi, where 90% of rural development staff were cut last year. Nationally, only 16 engineers remain in the RD state system. Vital projects are sitting on desks waiting for approval.
▶ 0:36:34Phone calls are going unanswered for months. That's not serving rural people. Let me be clear. The problem I'm raising here today isn't simply that federal staffing was cut. The problem is that those cuts happened without consulting the very people they affect. Rural Americans are more than willing to tell us what is working and what isn't if only we take the time to listen. And that brings me to my second point.
▶ 0:36:58When I talk with people working to make a difference for the places they live, they ask for straightforward applications to programs that fit their vision. People often ask what I've seen in other places that might inform how they can solve the challenges they face. In the long term, we need to pivot from a there's a program for that or all of the acronyms as chairman Johnson mentioned to we'll invest in your strategy.
▶ 0:37:24Here's some people who found success with similar efforts and we'll be with you every step of the way. When it comes to straightforward investments, we need to resist the temptation of adding a program to solve every problem and instead double down on grant investments in bread and butter programs like community facilities that can fund a lot of different things. We need to consider multi-year funding that gives a longer runway to adjust to the challenges of federal grants.
▶ 0:37:53We need to invest in technical assistance from partners who have the relevant experience and can help with the necessary complicated bits. And we need to incentivize USDA staff to clean up programs, to leverage technology, and to identify places where Congress can simplify applications and reporting. For years, rural Americans have been telling us they don't believe government serves the people working hardest to get by.
▶ 0:38:20Today and while I was in office, rural people have higher rates of suicide, fewer doctors, less treatment for addiction, lower wages, and higher mortgage costs. That's why this committee is so crucial. I have to admit it, my soul is just happy seeing this bipartisan effort because the rural way of life is worth fighting for.
▶ 0:38:45If we listen to the rural people we depend on for food, fiber, energy, and land stewardship, if we invest in their ideas, there's no limit to what rural America can accomplish. Thank you for your time and for your partnership. Leaving a minute on the clock, that is madame deputy secretary. All right, I'll recognize myself for five minutes.
▶ 0:39:11Uh, Miss Forbes, you mentioned defederalizing IRP funds. Tell us more what you mean by that. How would that
▶ 0:39:19Sure. So, under the Southeastern Development Foundation, we have IRP funding. We actually have eight of those funds. Um, that's a 30-year term uh at 1%. And over that 30 years, for each loan that we have, we're required to submit quarterly reporting for those. So, I've got eight of those. I'm doing 32 of those a year.
▶ 0:39:40Um, not only do we have to do it the first time that the monies go out, but when they come back and they go out again, we consistently have to keep track of the jobs, we consistently have to keep track of where are those funds going. Uh, and with reduced uh, USDA staff, it's a burden on my staff to put those together. It's a burden on USDA staff to review those. Uh, so it's one way that I think you could do more with less. Um, something similar was done several years ago through EDA, uh, where they deferralized it.
▶ 0:40:08they after you've had those funds for seven years, they lose their federal flavor. Um the other thing that if you don't let them lose their federal flavor that we're required to do is we continue to have to do A133 audits on them. So it's more expensive. It's harder to find those. Uh if I do a regular audit versus an A133, it cost me at least 4 to6,000 more dollars. Uh and so you're seeing that all across the United States with anybody that has IRP. So, this has been done before and I think that it's something that should be looked at as we're looking to do with more with less.
▶ 0:40:40Yeah, that makes a tremendous amount of sense to me. I mean, Commissioner, you talked about fasttracking approvals for small dollar projects. Is there a particular step in the process you'd truncate or or what how how would you fast track it? Well, there's um a number of projects are relatively low dollar and they're relatively simple and yet the uh same requirements apply when it comes to uh seeking funding.
▶ 0:41:09Um, you know, at the county level, we can put the partners together and get things done, but with the uh cumbersome bureaucratic process of having to go through uh a lengthy approval procedure, it can also be a very expensive procedure in terms of all the preliminary work. Um, there has to be a way to fasttrack the smaller ones and and recognize the many many very rural counties that just do not have the resources to handle all the administrative burden. um we can meet it halfway.
▶ 0:41:40We the foundation being the federal funding uh we can put the partners together at the local level and make things happen which is what we're all in this in this for is to accomplish the goals of of these funding programs but the cumbersome process it's daunting. Uh we have townships and burrows our local governments there that have no staff to do anything like this. So I believe that there would be a way to have a fasttracking process for the smaller projects. Yes, that uh that also makes sense.
▶ 0:42:09Uh Miss Tortois Small, when you were the deputy secretary, you had a reputation for being a great listener and being willing to put some miles on the odometer to go listen to stakeholders. Uh and in fact, I I saw you uh for an afternoon in Wall, South Dakota, a town of less than a thousand people, uh where you really learn, you knew a lot, but you learned even more about the power of small uh meat As we think about listening to stakeholders to improve these programs,
▶ 0:42:40are there stakeholders that that too often are overlooked as we're constructing reforms to these programs?
▶ 0:42:47Absolutely. You know, I I know I'm in trouble when I was at USDA, if I was talking to someone who I was asking to help simplify a process and they'd never filled out that application, right? Because when you talk to people who are having to put together those applications, I remember um talking with a farmer who had a 4-inch binder that his wife had put together so that they could get a more efficient grain dryer. Those are the folks we've got to talk to.
▶ 0:43:14I mean, value added producer grants is one of the best programs at USDA. And it almost always requires a grant writer for that that that farmer to to work with. and that cuts the cost or that cuts the investment that they could receive.
▶ 0:43:29So, we've got to be spending more time talking with the people filling out the applications and having these userg guided um pathways to walk with them through the application so you can identify as Commissioner Heiml mentioned those um places where it takes too much uh time to to to fulfill the
▶ 0:43:50Yeah, tremendous wisdom there. Uh with that I would yield back and recognize the ranking member for five minutes.
▶ 0:43:56Um thank you so much Mr. Chair. Want to go back to my opening uh when I talk about in particular my experiences as a mayor Snow Hill um small community. Clearly, I would imagine that there are so many needs that are out there and often when you're now trying to evaluate the applications uh against the needs, uh but what I want to
▶ 0:44:26go to is before we even get to that process, um I'm certain I know that communities it's a big decision of uh within themselves to even make a deter determination, do we apply? Um, when I was the mayor sitting in a small town, it was myself, a clerk, and a small staff.
▶ 0:44:49Um so my question is if you can continue um deputy secretary um to small just maybe speak towards how we're able to address um capacity building as well as again coming back to streamlining the process the application process to even get more of these rural communities into the pipeline.
▶ 0:45:12Yeah that capacity and streamlining applications I think are two sides of the same coin. We need USDA staff who know communities and applications to streamline those. And then we still will need some technical assistance and capacity building on the community side who have experience with not only that this this town but maybe another town in the region that's gone through a similar challenge and can help navigate uh a web application for example for a water system.
▶ 0:45:41those kinds of that that experience is crucial then will also inform how to fix those applications.
▶ 0:45:47Yeah. And I want to shift to the commissioner. Um I don't know about your community but I hear so often um oh okay I mean we really need the grant. We need the grant versus the loan and still looking at how the you know the challenge that it can be for some of these rural communities. one to even assume a loan.
▶ 0:46:11Nevertheless, um sometimes in you know when you're looking at the the program depending on which one there's certain expectations that would even follow the loan in terms of rates and so forth. Um but then the other question is dealing with matches.
▶ 0:46:27Um could you speak towards uh any experiences or challenges that you may hear from in communities uh about um you know really the need for a grant and just these financial burdens that rural communities are already facing?
▶ 0:46:44Uh certainly and you have to realize that a rural comm rural county uh has very limited sources of income. Uh, in Pennsylvania, the only income for our tax revenue is through the real estate tax. We can't even impose an income tax, unlike a lot of other local governments. Um, with the grant funding, I look at it as a foundation.
▶ 0:47:08And once that foundation is laid, the loans can be layered on top of that, we can unleash the power of our our local stakeholders working together because we're small. We all work together to get things done. So, a combination grant and loan um package uh could be very very effective in a rural area.
▶ 0:47:28We're particularly suited to be able to implement that and again to accomplish what we've set out to accomplish with uh these programs of improving rural communities, supporting the economy, creating jobs. Um it all can be done with with that kind of a package together.
▶ 0:47:45I appreciate that. And my last question here for anyone that wants to jump in, um, again, understanding the need, especially in rural America, tends to be so much greater than the funds. Uh, are there any programs in particular that perhaps you would like to see maybe just a little more added into that program?
▶ 0:48:09I'll touch on one that we use a lot, which is the IRP program. Uh on a national basis, I believe $9 million was allocated for this fiscal year. South Dakota alone had $2.2 million in requests. That's just simply not enough to be impactful. Uh every time that we've applied for those funds, we've um been lucky enough and been lucky enough to receive them. It's been limited to 500,000. We then have to provide match of 1666 6667 on top of that.
▶ 0:48:39Um, and so it just those dollars just don't go as far as they did 20 years ago. I've been running this loan fund for 20 years and we're losing buying power every year on
▶ 0:48:48I'm gonna give my last 10 seconds to Miss Betty Bran. I saw y'all were looking at each other.
▶ 0:48:56yes, I'd like to um, you know, they're so each of these programs all put a small part. they're they are um developed individually, but they also will will hit a a gap or something that that they another program would not cover.
▶ 0:49:12So, it's kind of hard to say which I mean the value added producer grant program it's three times the applications as the the numbers that can be awarded that obviously is a very popular um there's some great stories of businesses that were really launched from that little bit of planning money and then that marketing or that development.
▶ 0:49:32Um but the BNI program is one of the larger gr guaranteed programs in rural development and um actually there is very little federal money that's used for that um it's the private lender comes to the table every time there's a guaranteed L so and they were fully um utilized the funds were fully utilized the value add I mean the
▶ 0:49:55the food supply chain also
▶ 0:49:58uh we will hear from Mr. Rose and Ranking Member Craig is on deck. And with that, the gentleman from Tennessee.
▶ 0:50:05Uh, thank you, Chairman Johnson, and thank you, Ranking Member Davis, for holding this hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for joining us. 78 of Tennessee's 95 counties are classified as rural. These communities serve as our states and nation's backbone, in my opinion, providing the everyday essentials America depends on. I am grateful that the current administration recognizes this.
▶ 0:50:29Last month, Secretary Rollins announced nearly 89 million in rural development investments across Tennessee alone, including two projects that are in my district, the sixth district of Tennessee. We must continue promoting rural prosperity through investments in broadband access, business and jobs, rural hospitals, and critical utilities. Commissioner Himl, you have experienced firsthand the value of investing in rural development.
▶ 0:50:57Your testimony highlights the unique challenges that rural counties face in meeting local needs. Can you briefly elaborate on the specific challenges that Potter County faces as well as any obstacles you've faced at the county level when applying for rural development grants or loans beyond those that you've already described?
▶ 0:51:19Well, certainly um the challenges in our particular county and it applies uh across the country is a high percentage of property which is uh owned by in our case the state government. Our tax base has shrunk uh 40ome% of our county uh is ineligible or is exempt from taxation. We rely on the rest of the county and the rather meager incomes that we have in in Potter County to support all these processes.
▶ 0:51:49Um what we have found is the viability of the USDA field staff and I emphasized that in my opening remarks. They're on the ground. They're in our communities. We're on a firstname basis with them. That's the contact point uh that would allow rural counties to continue to take advantage of the programs in place. I mentioned about the simplified process and things like that.
▶ 0:52:13But key factor number one is that the uh staffing be adequate at the regional level. Keep these folks in the That service has existed for decades. It's actually just part of our way of life in in Potter and many many rural counties. So the number one priority I would uh ask for is that the field staff be uh protected at least at its current level, maybe even build upon. It's that important to all of rural America.
▶ 0:52:43Thank you. I appreciate that perspective and I think probably most uh folks who've dealt with USDA rural development understand that continuity of that staff is critical to delivering on the promise that uh rural development has for for our counties and states across the country. In recent years, Tennessee has struggled with a critical shortage of inspected slaughterhouses, leaving farmers without processing options and existing facilities overwhelmed by demand.
▶ 0:53:12Miss Forbes, um, how can the meat and poultry intermediary lending program help expand our state's processing capacity and provide farmers with a reliable access to these essential services?
▶ 0:53:27In South Dakota, um, there was uh, one of the planning districts did receive a grant uh, that was a special onetime grant through COVID. Uh, my friend Rick Huncker in Iowa also received a similar grant and uh, our friends in Minnesota or in Montana did as well. Those are being used to help open up um new facilities. They're used to help expand and modernize existing facilities.
▶ 0:53:53Um we using just our IRP loan program recently uh funded a small um processing facility in uh Iowa. Um and so as you look at those funds and trying to uh have some stability during COVID, those were one of the things that we noticed as a food um stability was was a really big issue.
▶ 0:54:16And so having the ability to uh operate those facilities and make sure that that is done in a meaningful manner um gives not only u stability to the consumer but also stability to the producers that are looking for somewhere to take their uh
▶ 0:54:31Thank you Miss Small. Farmers across Tennessee are increasingly reporting declining reliability of cell signals in rural areas across uh the state. With technology continually advancing, what is causing the disconnect between innovation and rural infrastructure and how can we ensure these communities receive reliable service that they need to be successful?
▶ 0:54:54Yeah, sell service is one of the most challenging uh uh issues to address as a federal government. When I was a representative, it certainly saw that people cared about highspeed internet. They cared about cell phone service even more. Uh one of the things that we've been able to do through rural development is investing in the fiber connectivity that allows cell phone towers to be constructed.
▶ 0:55:18and I visited a a town in Iowa that had that exact story where there was a reconnect grant that put fiber into the community and then a private company came in and put a cell phone tower attached to that.
▶ 0:55:29Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 0:55:32The gentleman yields back. Ranking member Craig is organized for five
▶ 0:55:37Thank you so much. I want to take just a moment for per moment of uh personal privilege as well to welcome Farm Aid to Minnesota on Saturday. Uh, so we're looking forward to that, every single one of us, uh, in Minnesota. I have a few questions today, so I'm going to get right to it. Um, as I mentioned in my opening statement, I remain increasingly concerned with healthc care access in our country and of course, especially in rural America.
▶ 0:56:03In the state of Minnesota, just a couple of weeks ago, we're seeing health clinics and hospitals start to close. Six southeast Minnesota clinics are closing by the end of the year due to rising cost and staffing shortages. These local clinics are are the very institutions serving our nation's farmers who are work stressful high-risisk jobs to feed and fuel our nation.
▶ 0:56:26There are estimates that the Republican reconciliation package will close hundreds of rural pro hospitals, approximately 700 in fact across um the country. Can uh anyone on the panel tell me a little bit more about USDA uh rural development programs that my constituents can look to in order to reinstitute and improve upon rural health care access? Representative Torres Small.
▶ 0:56:53Thanks so much, Ranking Member Craig. When I think about uh hospitals across rural America, there was COVID era funding that was fundamental to saving uh hospitals. They provided direct assistance to uh lending uh that that saved uh rural hospitals from closing their doors.
▶ 0:57:13Uh also when you look at community facilities, that's something that rural hospitals rely on uh to be able to expand and provide services that are needed, but also to I visited one hospital in North Dakota that opened their doors um to then rent out space for others and that helped them pay back the loan.
▶ 0:57:33The problem is is that most of community facilities funding is loans and especially as hospitals face the dire impacts of Medicaid cuts, they're not going to have the resources for those loans.
▶ 0:57:45Thank you very much. Commissioner uh Himl, I know in your testimony uh you actually said rural health care in your region is approaching a full-blown crisis. Can you just elaborate on that?
▶ 0:57:56I'd be happy to. Uh I I'll give you an anecdote. We have a a UPMC hospital uh that serves Potter and surrounding counties. Uh recently for various factors, they had to close uh maternity services there, child birthing services. We now have a 7count maternity desert in North Central Pennsylvania.
▶ 0:58:18There is not one uh facility in the within the seven counties uh that can provide uh that the birthing services and maternity care. Uh that's a concern. Um we that same hospital very recently announced it's going to close its long-term care, its nursing home. Um and the residents there are going to move to another facility. Um people are quick to say, "Oh, that's a pattern. It's going to be the dominoes falling and next thing you know, we won't have a hospital." I'm not trying to go there.
▶ 0:58:48I'm trying to point out that the investment in rural health care is extremely important. Down the road, 90 miles from our county uh through the community facilities program, a significant grant came to Jefferson County in Punksatani from the old Groundhog Day community. They were able to basically save their hospital there through the community facilities program.
▶ 0:59:12uh they renovated a a building into two different units and were able to put a new emergency department in that hospital through this program. So uh it's a deep deep concern, a very very high priority in our region and I'm sure other places.
▶ 0:59:28Thank you so much, Commissioner. And I'm going to go back to uh Representative Torres Small. Um, I mean, this has been a really rough nine months in rural communities with high input costs, low commodities prices, with uh trade wars. Um, Medicaid cuts, SNAP cuts. Uh, there's been a lot and my family, farmers, and others are telling me that this is devastating. How would you describe the impact?
▶ 0:59:53What are you seeing that this administration's policies have had or will have on rural communities? Thank you for your attention to rural communities in the wake of these impacts, uh, Ranking Member Craig, because it's it's going to be significant.
▶ 1:00:09uh whether that's the $155 billion dollars of lost spending to rural hospitals because of the cuts to Medicaid or whether it's families that are facing a double whammy of SNAP cuts uh on top of an uncertain economy or if it's stranded soybeans in the Midwest because of the tariff war the collateral damage of that.
▶ 1:00:30Um, we're facing real uncertainty in rural America and that's why your attention is so crucial to make sure that this committee works together to support rural America.
▶ 1:00:40Thank you so much. Um, and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:00:49The general woman yields back. At this time, we're going to recognize Mr. Lucas from the wonderful state of Oklahoma.
▶ 1:00:56Thank you. And I thank the chairman and the ranking member. And being a long-erving member of this committee, I've worked on these issues for a long time. And coming from a very small community in rural western Oklahoma, I've seen the challenges, not personally for the last century, but I've observed the results of the challenges of the last century in my home community. In 1930, we had 14,000 residents in Roger Mills County as we slid into the Great Depression and the dust bowl of the 1930s.
▶ 1:01:25Contrary to the belief of my children, I was not personally there at the time, but my parents and grandparents were there. And with changing agricultural patterns and economic decisions made uh unwisely perhaps by Congresses and presidents of the time, we now have made our way back to 3,400 warm bodies from that 14,000 we had in 1930.
▶ 1:01:51and my home community approximately 800 people, but I've not looked at the orbituaries this morning online being a slightly older community. So, we face all the challenges that we're discussing here today. Sometimes it's really difficult when you get to a certain critical mass on population and economic activity to turn things around. But that's what the rule development programs are all about and why we have worked so diligently on this committee for a long time to try and drive that in the correct direction.
▶ 1:02:21Miss Forbes, your testimony underscores that rule development often serves as the lynch pin for transformative rule development. And I'd like to focus on that for a as a point this morning. From your uh why is it so vital? And sometimes we need to reinforce these points in committee since we are the bellweather to describe to our colleagues across the body what matters.
▶ 1:02:44Why is it so vital that an agency like Rural Development, one that's set up to support those unique needs of rural America is willing to treat rural regions as emerging
▶ 1:02:55Thank you for the question. When you think about rural, I want you to think about scarcity. You've touched on it a little bit in the reduction of your county. Um, so every time that your community at one point would have had 14,000 to or 14,000 residents to help defay the cost of a new water system, now they have 3,400.
▶ 1:03:13Exactly. And so you have to spread that cost out and the cost of what that would have been years and years ago versus what it is now and how much it has grown through the years. Um that's just one example when you're looking at rural uh trying to get from one farm to the next. There's miles and miles of what whether that's broadband, whether that's uh infrastructure for water and sewer, any of those kinds of things. And there's just not the people along that route to uh pay for those. So absent a federal investment that doesn't get done.
▶ 1:03:41Absolutely. my great aunt and uncle whose farm I live on now. Uh he came there in 1912. They got married in 1914. The little community of Strong City, eight miles down the Wild Horse Creek uh became a public power community in 1912. So from from the time they were married in 1914 until the rule electric at the conclusion of the Second World War was able to string wires to our part of the country.
▶ 1:04:06every evening they could see the electric lights eight miles away as they lit their coal oil lamp. But sometimes those differences haven't in a world of broadband where that is one of the most important things to business in our younger generation or anyone who's connected to the world. Linda and I still on that 1965 copper wire get five bits down and five megabytes up. It's a challenge. Miss Forbes, continue with you.
▶ 1:04:34I'd like to discuss the rural business investment program for a moment. Oklahoma has a new rural business investment company and business accelerator program through the Oklahoma Farm Bureau, which is providing much neededed capital investment to my constituents back home. In your opinion, how are brick programs filling the gap for rural industry that other capital organizations may be unable to provide?
▶ 1:05:00So, one of the things I like about the rural development is that you do fill a lot of gaps that other federal programs don't. For instance, you can do things that we can't help secure financing for for CDBG. Um, they have a niche. Uh, the SRF program has a niche, but the thing that this uh rural development program has a niche for is a lot of those other gaps that can't be filled elsewhere.
▶ 1:05:22So, when you talk about some of the uh brick and mortar, some of those kinds of things, I can't finance uh fire halls um except for through CDBG. And not all my communities are eligible for CDBG. Um and and so this program and having the access to be able to access these for some of those other gaps is is really crucial for rural America.
▶ 1:05:44Absolutely. And as my time runs out, Mr. Chairman, I would simply note I love living on Wild Horse Creek. I don't mind being miles and miles away from my neighbors, but the challenges are greater for those of us in the countryside. Yield back.
▶ 1:06:00That is truth. Um, the next Republican will be Mr. Man, but right now we will recognize the chair ameritus, Mr. David Scott of Georgia.
▶ 1:06:10Thank you, uh, Chairman. First, let me thank uh you, Chairman Johnson, and uh Ranking Member Davis in our rural communities. They make up what is the heart and the soul of our agriculture system, but they're getting a raw deal now.
▶ 1:06:36Not only are they providing the heart and the soul, I represent a district that is part rural, part urban, and I'm in the middle of this, and I know the frustrations. Uh, but also right now, we're dealing with some man-made attacks on our rural communities. Uh, existing barriers have been cut.
▶ 1:07:05They've been compounded by mass firings, misguided staff reductions, and reckless budget cuts. There is a lot of work that we got to do to straighten out how we are providing the necessary help for our rural communities. And that's what I want to get to uh with you, Miss Voss.
▶ 1:07:32First of all, historically, what has present prevented, in your words, so many rural communities and small towns from successfully applying and receiving the federal grants. What can we do here to smooth out getting the resources down to them?
▶ 1:07:57Thank you so much. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. Did you Yeah, Miss uh I want to hear from everybody on thought I talk. You all take your time because this is the heart of the matter. Let's see what we in Congress need to do to get the money down there to them and really lead the way. They're our heart and soul.
▶ 1:08:23So, let's talk about just some real examp uh real life examples. My staff, this is what they do. They're they're an RDO. They work with 46 uh communities and counties and they help them write grants and loans uh packages to help secure some of these projects. Um and it's not an easy process. Um while I said earlier that these provide some uh opportunities that we can't find through other processes. Sometimes these programs are more difficult to access the funds than some of the other programs. And I'll give you an example.
▶ 1:08:52Um, if we are working with a community that needs a new water tower and if we take them to the state revolving loan fund, if you are involved with creating that through the SRF, those are run through the states provided by you. Uh, the state of South Dakota runs that very well. So they they have quarterly funding rounds. We know that if you apply in January, that's going to go before a public board in March. Um, and one day they will hear it, the next day they will find out whether or not they receive those funds and we can work with that.
▶ 1:09:20Conversely, if we apply for a water um application through USDA, uh we work through that process. We we submit it and we don't know where it goes, we don't know what the process is, we don't know when it's coming back. It may uh it may languish somewhere for a year and by the time it comes back, um you know, those costs have risen. Uh and so it's just very difficult sometimes to um work with a program when you don't have the exact parameters of how that works. And I understand that they've got staff cuts.
▶ 1:09:50I can't tell you how to make it better because once it leaves my desk, I don't know where it goes uh until we finally get some notice of of if it's coming back and been funded or not.
▶ 1:09:59All right. Yeah, Miss Smalls and then the others. What what I'm asking for here is you got a lot of folks on this committee that want to really help and get down there and we're faced with things here. We got to cut out these budget cuts going down to them and help them.
▶ 1:10:21But we need to find out and get recommendations from you as to any specific things we can do right now, Miss Smalls.
▶ 1:10:32I I'll pick up where Lin Keller Forbes left off in terms of water programs. Uh there's some really good suggestions about having the flexibility to offer zero to 1% interest loans so that uh rural development can make that determination when a community really needs it. There's also a really good uh proposal to support regionalization of water projects so they can leverage more funds and leverage existing systems. H and then it is about the flexibility.
▶ 1:11:01I really appreciate that you brought up the state revolving loan fund uh because those are state administered and if we could tie we funds more closely together with state revolving loan funds that would dramatically speed up the process but it would take congressional action because there's different requirements for each program.
▶ 1:11:21Thank you very much.
▶ 1:11:24Uh Mr. Man, you are recognized with the gentleman from Alabama on deck. Well, thank you, uh, Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Davis. Thanks for doing this very important hearing. Thanks to all the witnesses for being here. I represent the big first district of Kansas, which is 60 primarily rural counties in the western and and central part of Kansas. Investment and access to capital is critical for success in our rural communities across Kansas and around the country.
▶ 1:11:51And we've got to ensure that these communities don't fall behind because they lack the resources that the more urban cities are afforded. Um, which is why this is so important. You know, in my view, it's essential that Congress and the USDA continue to work to supply our rural communities with the tools they need so these communities can economically thrive. And I think we we've got to, you know, remember, we are all here because we care deeply about rural communities.
▶ 1:12:14And I would argue the reason everyone should care about rural communities is rural communities are where the values that make America America are still alive and well, which I would say are things like faith, family, hard work, personal responsibility, caring for our neighbors, but we've got to make sure that we keep our rural communities going because that's where these values are still alive and well. So, there's a lot at stake and again, I just appreciate y'all for being here. A handful of questions.
▶ 1:12:40Um first for you um Commissioner um Himl uh Pennsylvania in your testimony you mentioned how counties and regional entities should be able to bundle small projects into a single coordinated application. Um this makes a lot of sense to me and you know just the fact that these programs are intended for rural communities also means that those communities that are applying for them don't have big staffs. Um you have people that are wearing multiple hats trying to fill out these applications.
▶ 1:13:08I think this notion of bundling these things makes a lot of sense. What programs under the USJ rural development would you think would benefit the most from this sort of an approach?
▶ 1:13:20Well, quite frankly, you know, I don't have the intimate knowledge of the uh USDA RD uh programs per se. Um, I would say that the when I refer to the bundling, I'm speaking about trying to put together projects from different entities that have the same goal in mind. And I think it would require uh changes in regulations that might not be all that hard to accomplish that takes into account uh the rural county needs.
▶ 1:13:49uh maybe one of my colleagues would be a little more familiar with the the particulars of the RD programs, but the I think there's ways to streamline it and we can put things together. What we need to be is funded and trusted and enabled at the the local level and we'll bring this through. Sure. Does anyone want to comment on that? If there's some specific things you feel like could be bundled or put together to make the application process just simpler, easier, more efficient. Yes, I'll speak to that.
▶ 1:14:19Um, I think that especially in the light of fewer employees and needing to streamline some things that certainly in and especially like the BNI program, the CF program is bundling. They do bundle um in the CF program the guarantee and the direct lending and making it easier. But um but having more flexibility to include more of a regional basis is a certainly a good idea and a possibility that should be considered.
▶ 1:14:47Certainly um having just some what I would think is pretty basic technology, online portals for your lenders for um having um um online applications for either customers the the grant programs that can kind of walk you through.
▶ 1:15:07I mean, student loan programs kind of walk you through um there are programs that walk you through to do your taxes and it seems like there could be some development of a program to help these communities do that and then that process understand all the factors that come into that and if that is a regional basis.
▶ 1:15:24There is a the RISE program which is a regional requirement to have um but that's really um technical assistance and that sort of thing not really the the hospitals and other things that that are um typically only in a single community.
▶ 1:15:42Yeah, that's great. Um Morris Small thoughts. Um good to see you again. Um you have a great perspective on this thoughts, ideas.
▶ 1:15:49So the back end is also really important. So you've got the same staff on the ground administering community facilities and water programs often, but they use different portals for uploading things. And so being able to work on some of those backend um pieces is very important. And then also housing. So you've got I mean in terms of people who have the least resources, folks who are applying for a rural development loan are some of the most low resourced.
▶ 1:16:15So being able to check their account status online is a fundamental need that isn't addressed right now.
▶ 1:16:23Great. Well, thank you again for having this hearing. Thank you all for being here and I yield back the balance of my
▶ 1:16:28Gentleman yields back at this time. Um the gentleman from Alabama, Miss Figures, is recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:16:35Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Johnson, and thank you, Ranking Member Davis. And thank you to all the panelists for being here uh today and sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience in this industry. Uh and I join uh my colleague Congressman Mann um and others here in in acknowledging the the duty, the obligation that we have to preserve and invest in our rural communities.
▶ 1:16:58I represent the second congressional district of Alabama where 11 of the 13 counties that I represent are completely rural and um large portions of the two remaining counties um are also rural. Uh I think you know America has to understand the role that rural America has played in making us who we are.
▶ 1:17:17Um, you know, I like to say in Alabama that the the big cities of Mobile and Montgomery and Birmingham and Huntsville, they have literally pulled um almost every resource imaginable from the rural communities uh to feed themselves, to employ those communities, to provide the wood that makes the furniture around um around here um and the people and the people. Uh and you know, that's that's that's part of the economy that we live in.
▶ 1:17:47Um but we can't turn our backs on those communities. We have to recognize that they have been there providing for us for so long. Um that we have an obligation to provide for them as well. And you know unfortunately we see particularly in my district uh we are seeing a lot of struggles uh for our rural communities. Uh we are seeing um not only people leaving um and not returning home, people growing up there and having to leave for employment opportunities and education opportunities.
▶ 1:18:15Um, we're seeing our rural communities even still, um, struggle with some very primitive sounding issues. I mean, I have places in my district where the, you know, they they can't have access to public sewer systems yet. Uh, the soil concentration is not conducive to septic tanks. And so, what they do is literally do what they call straight piping sewage right out into the woods. Um, that sounds like a third world issue.
▶ 1:18:37That sounds like something that's an extreme thing to say, but it is something um if you Google um you will see it's something that we still struggle with in certain parts um of Alabama. We have grocery store deserts where we have rural communities that literally are miles away from grocery stores. And sadly uh our health care uh system, particularly in our rural communities, um is the worst in the country. And what I mean by that is we have had several hospitals that have closed within the past few years.
▶ 1:19:06We have a handful more in my district uh that are literally monthtomonth. They have to go find money every single month from a county commission or a city council just to be able to make payroll for a hospital. And after water and electricity, I think a hospital is the third most important piece of infrastructure you can have because nobody wants to live, no one wants to retire to, no one wants to build or develop um in a community. When that conversation begins with the reality that we do not have a hospital, right? something that basic.
▶ 1:19:37Uh and so I take the obligation to support our rural communities incredibly seriously. And as a father, I I think a lot about how where a child grows up uh shapes the opportunities that they'll have. And in rural America, uh especially Alabama, family face barriers, uh some of which that I've mentioned that have nothing to do with hard work or talent, but simply geography and the lack of investment. Um and so with my time remaining, I'd like to just pose a a quick question um related on the healthcare side of things.
▶ 1:20:04We know rural hospitals are closing and keeping doctors and nurses in these communities are uh is becoming increasingly difficult, but from your perspective, how critical is USDA's investments in community facilities and health care? How critical have those investments been uh for maintaining access to care and for encouraging providers to stay in rural areas? And how critical is it that we continue to make those investments? this brand.
▶ 1:20:26Certainly the the community facilities program um for public publicly owned hospitals and actually um for privately owned hospitals the BNI program can also provide guarantees but it is absolutely critical. I can't tell you how many opportunities and I'm sure um Miss Small also um saw those on her visits about um the difference a community um it made to a community to have that hospital supported by this um community facilities program.
▶ 1:20:57The um there was a hospital that I visited at um I believe it was in South Dakota that they simply they they had no patients. they were willing to drive because they perceived this hospital was not modernized that they couldn't get the decent health care. They built a new facade. They added some equipment and all of a sudden people realize this this is a good one. And so it's not just the hospitals, it's the quality of doctors. It's the modernization of equipment that has to it all comes in hand in hand. And you're
▶ 1:21:26And and and I'm sorry I don't mean to cut you off, but as my time is is closing, I'll just leave with this statistic. We have 52 rural hospitals remaining in the state of Alabama. 26 of them are rated as being at risk of closure. And of those 26, 22 are rated at being at immediate risk of closure. Uh so these investments are critical uh to providing that sort of access uh to healthcare in our rural communities. Thank you guys so much. I yield back.
▶ 1:21:54Mr. Finstead, you are recognized.
▶ 1:21:56Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh thank you uh for having this committee hearing today and uh thank you to the ranking member Davis for this. I just want to take a second to just congratulate the both of you. The climate in the world that we live in today, our politics are driven to us to really find the one or two things that we really don't like each other's position on and then focus on that.
▶ 1:22:20what you two have been able to do in this committee, but also in in this Congress, is to show us that how about we do it differently. How about we find a couple issues that we agree on and then let's focus on that and let that be the driving force to us really to come together and solve problems. So, thank you for showing us how to do that, showing other members.
▶ 1:22:39Uh, and I just want you to know it's noticed because I I don't think we tell each other each other that enough, you know, and I I look at Congressman Figures over there always welcoming us with a good, you know, a smile and a how you doing today. We don't agree on a ton of things all the time, but but that right there is just an example I think that we can show our colleagues. So, I just wanted to start out with saying that uh
▶ 1:23:01development is recognized for 30
▶ 1:23:06But I do think it's fitting to say that in the subcommittee on rural development because when we talk about rural communities, I mean, that's how we do things still. We uh I I tell people back home all the time that, you know, if we were to run our townships, our county boards, our city councils, our church boards like Congress, and like our politics of today has run, we would get nothing done.
▶ 1:23:27But somehow in some way, in some fashion, rural rural America is still figuring it out because we have that idea that we can sit across the table with someone we don't agree on and everything, but we're driven to making our backyard better. And that's what really the secret sauce, I think, is in rural development. And quite frankly, it is something that we need to actually grow and to hold up as something that can can help us in rural America.
▶ 1:23:50I sit on the small uh business committee as well and you know I I get to have these conversations with the SBA and and my my ding on them is that rural America has been kind of been flyover land for for SBA and if it wasn't for our community lenders really that is the face for the SBA for rural America. We wouldn't really know SBA exists and so rural rural development has a has a great opportunity to do that. I had the privilege to be the state director of rural development in the last Trump administration. And so I got to be on the front line.
▶ 1:24:18And so it's great that we have uh excuse me um former Congressman Torres Smalls here and and Betty Bran here. Uh Miss Bran and I got to work together closely on a few things. And so when it came uh when it comes to access to rural capital, when we look at um you know really significant uh kind of the lifeblood of rural communities, uh there's always this question of we just don't have access to capital.
▶ 1:24:44we we we can't figure out how to come come up with $40 million to upgrade that rural hospital that is so desperately needed in a community that just can't afford it. So, it takes a lot of partners at the table to make that happen. I'm proud that I uh have been able to garner a lot of bipartisan support on my uh investing in rural America act which really tries to tap into another resource that is desperately needed and and we need to highlight more and that's the farm credit system.
▶ 1:25:11And so my investing in rural America act uh gives farm credit the authority to partner with other l uh rural lenders and finance institutions to finance facilities like hospitals, nursing homes, childcare facilities. So Miss Bran, with your experience both at rural development and in the farm credit do you I mean give me your thoughts uh quickly here. I got about a minute and a half and I have one more question.
▶ 1:25:35So, uh, on on the on the relationship with farm credit and and how we can really tap farm credit into the rural development, uh, world.
▶ 1:25:43Absolutely. It would be, um, a wonderful addition to the availability of lenders that can help support and and not just for the money, for their their um, capital that they could put in, but as the partnership with other lenders in the community to look for the best solution. Not everybody, one size doesn't fit all.
▶ 1:26:02Yeah, thank you for that. I'm going to take a drastic maybe turn and change here. So again, with my frontline experience, we're just so blessed to have two people that administered these programs from the the national level. Um but yet we hear from county commissioners, we hear from Miss South Dakota that uh when it when the rubber hits the road, we still have this disconnect because it's hard to tap into these programs.
▶ 1:26:26in the uh you know in the few minutes that we've sat here I probably could have got a car loan and a house loan on my phone approved but yet we have rural communities that can't figure out how to tap into rural development. So there's a lot of problems uh internally in regards to fixing the system but I was blown away when I was at rural development of the multiple IT systems that are used in USDA. The right hand doesn't talk to the left hand. We still have blue screens with green cursors.
▶ 1:26:53I mean, we could play Oregon Trail on some of the USDA computer systems, but yet we're administering billions of dollars of programs. So, I know I'm out of time, but I would like to uh like to hear as this committee unfolds here, just thoughts on on how can we improve our infrastructure to make it user friendly so someone sitting in, you know, rural, deep rural America can figure out how to tap into these programs. So, I appreciate the committee hearing today and I yield back.
▶ 1:27:21The gentleman yields and um let me say even though the chair yielded 30 minutes, thanks for sparing us today, but truly thank you for the heartfelt words. At this time, um Mrs. Mlan delay of the wonderful state of Maryland's
▶ 1:27:39Uh so thank you to our chairman and ranking member and to our witnesses. I really enjoy this um this dialogue uh because I I grew up in rural America in Idaho even though I represent the state of Maryland and I really believe that rural um America is the backbone of our country. Um I'm from farms in Washington County and businesses in Garrett and Alagany in my district. These are hardworking communities and deserve real support.
▶ 1:28:07And I too lean into the comments of my GOP colleague and I wholeheartedly agree that pragmatic bipartisan work is being done in rural communities because they want to get stuff done and they know one another and it's perhaps a model and a roadmap for the rest of us. Um and is actually something I will be releasing in comments later today. So I this is a heartfelt issue for me as well. So rural development isn't partisan, but it's about investing in our communities like Western and Mountain and Maryland.
▶ 1:28:37And I want to highlight a couple of things. First, I won't be able to have time to ask a question, but I will be submitting for the record some questions on investing in rural Main Street and access to capital and some thoughtful um comments on lending programs and how we can better invest. But I want to turn to uh a topic I really love, rural broadband. Um Rep. Torres Small and Mrs. brand.
▶ 1:29:00Each of you led USDA's response to the pandemic, Miss Brand during the early days and repor small in the aftermath and rural America was especially hit hard. I served as deputy assistant secretary at NTIA in the last administration and one thing became clear to me is that broadband is like a public utility and is direly needed to thrive and it's only been more obvious in you in rural health care and But the president's budget proposes to slash USDA's rural broadband
▶ 1:29:30funding and eliminate the reconnect program despite strong strong bipartisan support. And these aren't just numbers, they reflect our values. Could you all um speak to me about what are the strengths of the USDA broadband programs and what we can do to more support rural connectivity and programs which enable digital literacy and making best use of that When it comes to high-spe speed internet for rural America, Reconnect was hands down the fastest
▶ 1:30:00program to get infrastructure in the ground and to people. Uh and and that's why it's a crucial program to continue. Uh, one of some of few of the changes that we made to make it even more accessible was doubling down on the grants that were brought up previously by um, ranking member Davis and also that no match so that communities that needed it most were able to receive those investments on early. The other thing that was nice, they was connected to affordability, affordability program that unfortunately now is no longer in operation.
▶ 1:30:31And so if you've only got one provider and they're not committed to being affordable, it can be a real challenge in the future.
▶ 1:30:36Yeah. because if you get connectivity and you have access but you can't afford it, it doesn't do any good. Um, excellent. Excellent. Um, I I would also like to follow up on staffing re um reductions and I know some of you have spoken to that um but Rep. Uh Torres Small and and maybe um Commissioner um in your testimony you highlighted that severe staffing reductions and hiring freezes in rural development offices um such as the staggering 90% cut in Mississippi.
▶ 1:31:06We're here to learn how to better support rural America, and for many of us, that means crafting a farm bill that truly uplifts these communities. I'm deeply concerned about the immediate and long-term risks of losing experienced staff and institutional knowledge, which threatens USDA's ability to provide timely support, especially in rural communities. Given that, can you share an example of how implementing a new farm bill could be delayed or complicated if we continue policies that push essential staff out of USDA?
▶ 1:31:36Well, as I stated earlier, um we we've come to the point where we've relied on the uh regional staff for the USDA. Uh it's really um our way of life. Our local governments know no other way really to access the federal funding than to go through that system. And when you're talking about dating back decades, you're talking about dating back generations. It's part of our way of life.
▶ 1:32:00and um to have that not be uh fully funded and restored and have that level of service provided to us. We don't have another place to turn. Uh it is that critical to our rural county and many others, I'm sure.
▶ 1:32:16Thank you. I agree. It's heartbreaking. Any anyone else?
▶ 1:32:21Particularly when it comes to implementing a farm bill, headquarter staff is also crucial. uh making sure that you have folks, especially if you're looking at making applications easier uh and simplifying processes that will require staff at the headquarters which may not have that face-to-face connection but are fundamental to fixing some of the long-term challenges.
▶ 1:32:43Thank you. I really appreciate it. Um my time is up and I yield back.
▶ 1:32:46The general lady yields back. At this time we'll recognize Mr. Meer five for five minutes. Thank you. And and thank you all for sharing your time and insight with the committee. The farmers on my district are already budgeting $180 loss per acre this season. This is the third year in a row for who's your farmers uh that have invested more than they've earned. It's not an issue of efficiency. In fact, they're expecting bumper crops, but we what we demand is lack is demand.
▶ 1:33:15The biop-referred program which supports the purchase of non-fuel products from made from renewable farm materials offers one solution to this demand equation. Um for the honorable Torres uh Small and Miss Bran given each of your experiences at USDA, could you share how uh market facil facilitation efforts like the bio bio preferred program incentivize investment in rural America while continuing to support the the farm I love the biop-referred
▶ 1:33:45program. It is a great way to make sure that you can get as many markets as possible for the hard work of a farmer. Uh when I got married, we used utensils that were made from corn, right? Being able to extend take something that used to be a waste product and turn it into a actual product uh creates more opportunity not only for farmers but also for onoring manufacturing and selling more things that are grown and made in the United Yes, I'd like to say that um
▶ 1:34:16currently I'm I'm working with the one of the ARBEX rural business investment corporations that's licensed through the USDA rural development program and um they're all based on food and agriculture commercializing IP and and one of the goals is to be um certified through the biiobased markets program and it brings a new emphasis on the product the consumers are asking for and the product is used from the rural communities as
▶ 1:34:46well. So, it's a win-win for everyone. They have to be affordable, they have to be available, and they have to have the same quality as any other product, but they often many times surpass that.
▶ 1:34:58Thank you. In my district, I've witnessed the bofuel biopreferred program attract innovators and stimulate demand for local goods, farm goods. The continuation of this program and others administered by the rural business cooperative service are vital to farm livelihood. Um, last week a group of young farmers visited my office. In addition to expressing concerns about the farm economy, they highlighted the lack of access to rural child care. Uh, one couple had to reach out to 45 different contacts before finding an affordable option with availability.
▶ 1:35:28Mr. Heiml, USDA's community facilities program includes a line item for for child care centers. How does the unique workforce mentioned in your testimony help distribute child care solutions tailored to individual communities? That's an issue that often isn't discussed in in dialogue about a farm bill uh is child care. Uh it's extremely important in rural communities.
▶ 1:35:55I'll hearken back to our discussion about health care and about recruiting physicians and professionals that would like to uh relocate to a rural area. Um I joke and say the three most important uh criteria for them are broadband, broadband and child care. Uh but in fact that's uh that's a magnet.
▶ 1:36:16And one of the main reasons that rural hospitals struggle is they cannot attract the professionals because they just don't have the basic community assets uh where professionals uh would want to move there. And those are the kind of things that they're looking for and child care, affordable child care and available child care is just a very high priority and in trying to keep our communities
▶ 1:36:40Thank you. Um, I'm pleased with with the wins we got for farmers in HR1, but it is not a substitute for a farm bill. Last year, chairman's farm, food, and national security act made it through committee with improvements to the USDA USDA rural development. For each witness, could you uh what would passage of a farm bill mean to USDA RD programs you've mentioned? And what's extate for our rural communities if we fail to enact one?
▶ 1:37:06I'll start. Um I think the the reauthorization on some of the programs that's um could be included is important. There are many of the programs we discussed today and they're um individually the the communities need them. I also think there are some a few changes.
▶ 1:37:21One of the uh one of the suggestions is having um the ARBIC companies, the rural business investment corporations, allowing um a higher percentage of investment from the farm credit institutions, which again would bring more in more capital into rural communities. The um food supply chain is was a program that is no longer available but was so impactful in rural communities.
▶ 1:37:47Not only um helping um with the supply chain, the the um storage, the processing, the closing the gap between the farmers harvest and the customers uh accessibility in the grocery store. that during that time frame of that program before it ran out of funding.
▶ 1:38:04Um so many things were accomplished from the milk marketing cooperative um there was even a human breast milk company in Florida that was been able to finance to bring shelf ready breast milk for um child children that were born prematurely in hospitals. So there's so many things that will be impacted if these are not reauthorized and this farm bill doesn't get passed. I think I think the chairman is uh giving us giving us the click. So I appreciate your answers.
▶ 1:38:33I look forward to working with the chairman on on getting that done and and I yield back my time.
▶ 1:38:37Gentleman yields. At this time we're going to recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Manion for
▶ 1:38:43Thank you, ranking member, and thank you to the chairman. Thank you to the witnesses. Uh Deputy Secretary uh Torres Small direct my questions to you, but of course anyone can answer. uh this summer in uh Anida, New York, Anida High School was subjected to a severe flooding event that basically took out all of their power and there was no opportunity to make repairs uh within the time frame to get things up and running back to school.
▶ 1:39:12So, some difficult decisions had to be made as a result and they were looking at certain options of finding a different location. They thought they had one, but they did not. So unfortunately uh they had to make the difficult decision to share a school with their middle school change their schedule and as a result some of the learning which was not preferred and happening this year as you can imagine by parents by myself by uh the superintendent school board has to be remote learning.
▶ 1:39:42So my first question is about uh within USDA rural development, are there any longerterm community facilities options available to rural schools like Onida uh to harden against extreme weather
▶ 1:40:02Thank you, Congressman, for looking out for the future of your community in the wake of this impact. It's uh that's a really important uh challenge and that's why community facilities is such a important answer because if communities can bring a project that says we need to be more resilient in these ways, we need the infrastructure to invest in and that because of the breadth of the community facilities program, you can um you can use that for that purpose.
▶ 1:40:31One challenge that I'll I'll admit is with directed funding to community facilities. The last few years there's been very little grant money available for projects that weren't sponsored by members of Congress. And so looking at investing in grant money that's not specifically for earmarked projects is really important.
▶ 1:40:49I appreciate that. Thank you. Um shifting to the broadband piece. Um you spoke about this earlier. Uh you know we we want to expand broadband in my area. We have urban centers, but I live in a beautiful community uh and there's great opportunity in my district, but broadband access is a challenge uh as it is across this country.
▶ 1:41:15So like I mentioned when we do have to shift to hybrid learning does USDA rural development have any flexibility to quickly deploy broadband resources so that families without reliable internet access don't fall
▶ 1:41:33that flexibility and quick deployment I think is a really good question for communities who have experienced it. It's one of the problems one of the challenges. What I will say is that for community facilities, the faster projects are equipment-based. Um same with distance learning and tele medicine, those um if it's equipment based, you don't have to do all the permitting that you otherwise would for brick and mortar.
▶ 1:41:57Thank you for that. So um we would congress would need to provide new authority so that there would be granted that flexibility. It sounds like
▶ 1:42:07Yes. Yes, Congressman. Thank you.
▶ 1:42:09Thank you. Um, well, listen, I appreciate uh everyone participating today. I thank you for your dedication to rural America that we all share. And uh I yield my time back.
▶ 1:42:23Mr. Taylor from Ohio. You are
▶ 1:42:26Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, ranking member, for holding this hearing today. And let me uh just briefly echo my uh friend and colleague, Mr. Finstad's comments about the working nature of this committee and how much it's appreciated. It it truly is. It's uh very refreshing for someone who's been outside of politics their whole lives to come in and see that people actually do work here, which is great. Um, thank you to the witnesses for for being here today and the sacrifices you made to be with us in your expertise.
▶ 1:42:52Um, in my district in southern Ohio, I have uh 16 counties virtually, all of which are Appalachin, four of the five poorest counties in Ohio, nine of the 20 poorest. Um, believe it or not, there are still people living without running water. uh they have to haul water to their homes to drink and bathe. Uh to me in 2025 that's unacceptable and uh helping rural communities is the reason I ran for Congress in the first place.
▶ 1:43:19Uh USDA rural development has been a great partner to many areas within southern Ohio. Uh but I use that story to highlight that there is much more work to be done. Um and I believe several of the rural development programs could help us bridge the gap to get everyone connected to basic utilities. everyone in the United States, regardless of their address, should be able to receive running water. Miss Forbes, in your testimony, you spoke about the water programs within USDA quite a bit and how they have benefited rural communities.
▶ 1:43:46So, uh if you if you could um tell me what we can do as uh as Congress to ensure that all Americans, regardless of how rural their home may be, have access to running
▶ 1:43:59Thank you for the question. And so in a former life, many many years ago, I worked for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources in in South Dakota. And my first job was working with largecale uh reauthorization projects to um bring and get authorized um rural water systems in South Dakota. So um things that many Wony to get um water to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation to Mid Dakota um Lewis and Clark.
▶ 1:44:25So those are high high u price ticket items and they require a high federal investment. Um a lot of that came in the form of an 80% grant um through an allocation and then the state provided at least a 10% match if not more. But uh when you're talking about some of your constituents that clearly seem to be some of the um more um getting rural water is a blessing.
▶ 1:44:54Um but then you have to pay for it when you get it. And so it's a balancing act of how much can they afford to pay. Um and in the same vein um I' I've seen a lot of people that have been willing to pay for real water because that's but you know then you turn around and say do you want to do a regional wastewater system and what's that going to cost?
▶ 1:45:13And uh you know I had a project we looked at not too long ago and we said even if we could get them a 100% grant to do a regional wastewater you know it still meant that they had to do um on&m of $10 a month and and that's not huge but they already had additional uh costs that they had as well. So, uh, it's going to take a large federal investment.
▶ 1:45:33Um, and and, um, the grant funding becomes a key part of that because you have to really try to balance, um, what can they afford to pay for when this thing's all said and done,
▶ 1:45:44right? I appreciate that. One related problem in a lot of my district is they've got very old water infrastructure. So, people are paying for it. They're actually paying more than you would if you could have the new infrastructure. But how do you get from where you are today paying too much to upkeep a 80-year-old system uh to having a new system where you would actually end up paying, you know, less. It'll be less expense in operation. But thank you. Um Mr.
▶ 1:46:12Heiml, switching topics to uh rural health. In your testimony, you talked about how rural health care needs aren't going away and how in many regards those needs are growing more urgent. Uh that is certainly the case in my district. My district, as I mentioned, struggles on both metrics of health outcomes and healthc care access. I'm optimistic that the new $50 billion rural health transformation program that was created in the Working Families Tax Cut Act will help.
▶ 1:46:38I I think that program recognizes rural areas are facing unique health challenges that our larger cities are not, and I think it is a big step in the right direction. Uh, but I'm curious from your perspective as a county commissioner of a rural county, what do you see as the keys to improving rural health outcomes and how can USDA help achieve those improvements?
▶ 1:46:58Well, fundamentally, keeping the uh funding programs that have been uh historically supporting rural health care in place is a huge one. Uh we need to uh look at new solutions in rural communities. the old models aren't working and we need to have the capacity to uh pull together models that might be combining with another county combining with other entities in the region and looking at a new way of delivering it and we need the funding.
▶ 1:47:26It takes inventive thinking and it takes different funding sources. It's a fundamental issue and it's it's really pushing up to the crisis level uh in rural America.
▶ 1:47:38Thank you, sir. And thank you again to all of you for being here today. Chairman, I yield back. Mr. Nun of Iowa is recognized. Mr. Breahan is on deck.
▶ 1:47:48Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and to our ranking Mr. uh Mr. B Don Davis for everything you do here. Um, this hearing goes right to the heart about what I have heard about from my local farmers that I just held a round table with inm Iowa of all places. The impacts that you're talking about today are making sure that rural America doesn't get left behind. You know, I'm proud to not only serve on this subcommittee because it gives us the opportunity to really dig in to make it sure that USDA's rural development programs are working for the people who need the most.
▶ 1:48:16Iowa's third district is a great example of where a strong farm economy has given so much back to our communities, but at the same time, as we've noted today, a bumper crop year could actually result in some of the lowest returns back to those same communities. It's resulted in housing shortages, we've noted, county hospital staff shortages, aging infrastructure, and ultimately family farms that are now on the precipice. USDA runs dozens of important programs under rural development. But the reality is many of these are outdated.
▶ 1:48:46That's why we've been focusing on modernizing tools so they match today's challenges. I recently introduced the rural micro entrepreneurial assistance program to improve a bipartisan bill to raise outdated loan caps and give rural entrepreneurs the capital they need to launch and grow their businesses and their farms.
▶ 1:49:04I rolled out a comprehensive rural housing reform package with my colleague from southern Iowa, sometimes referred to as Missouri, the Representative Emanuel Clever, uh to ensure that families in small towns have access to affordable housing options. And I'm also very proud to be working with our ranking Mitt member, Mr. Don Davis, on revitalizing our rural communities act, which would boost funding levels for the rural economic development loan and grant program. So we see that there's a common theme here of what we can do for our rural development and the modernization requirements that are needed.
▶ 1:49:35I'd like to begin with Miss Forbes. based on your development organization, how would you raise the RAP or our rural uh micro entrepreneurial assistance program loan limit from 50,000 to 75,000 to help boost growth potentials particularly in rural areas.
▶ 1:49:52Thank you for the question. That's not a program that we directly work with, but some of the other members of NATO do uh work with that. I would say the answer is the same as everything else through the years. I don't know when that was last implemented or last increased, but I mean just take take whatever the year that was and add the CPI to it. What should it be now? You just don't have the same buying power that 50,000 used to have. Now, I would also say that um a lot of of districts in Iowa have uh access to regional revolving loan funds through the IRP program.
▶ 1:50:22So, that that's another avenue that they might be able to use to help small businesses. Um, I also am the president CEO of Dakota Business Finance that does SBA504 lending. So again, there's no one set answer on all this. It's just layering and layering and layering and trying to figure out what is the best fit for the
▶ 1:50:40And I would agree with you. I think what we need to also look at is the modernization of this. You noted it exactly. Many of these programs are in some cases decades old. And being able to make sure that we are keeping up not only with the times but with the expense is one of the things we're trying to do in our rural microeneural assistance program act. So, I appreciate that. And I want to turn to um Miss Torres Small. I really appreciated your earlier comments both on rural reconnect programs, particularly when it comes to broadband and its impact on an Iowa community. As you know, rural broadband no longer a luxury.
▶ 1:51:10Every small business, every hometown school, every farmer in the field needs access to this. Challengingly, it is still too difficult not only to get the broadband that we need. Think of it as rural electrification. It has to happen, but we're also not getting it at the levels to truly be effective. So programs like Reconnect have helped expand.
▶ 1:51:28Um I want to be able to highlight here how Congress can be a partner in making sure that rural Reconnect programs deliver to areas faster, reliably, and to truly underserved rural areas. Something that we've attempted to do in our Reconnect Rural America Act, which is currently before this committee. Could you share your insights on this? I really appreciate your focus of Congress being a partner and I I was at lost count of how many times folks talked about rural development being a partner for rural America as well.
▶ 1:51:58That really should be the focus especially in with programs like getting highspeed internet to people across rural America. One of the most important things about Reconnect is that it's technology neutral. That it's not forcing one type of technology on every single community because you know that uh the plains of Iowa look different than the rocky parts of uh New Mexico, right?
▶ 1:52:21And so it takes different technology to reach and so as you invest in Reconnect, as you protect it in the budget, I hope you also are protecting that uh technology neutral approach as well.
▶ 1:52:32I think you're absolutely right on this. the technology of the future, we may not even know yet. And whether it's overhead, whether it's celestial, whether it's traditional broadband, we have an opportunity here to be really innovative. And I think our farmers are already proving that. Um, I've got a guy who did an F-150 replant from his truck based on this. So, we know where there's access, there's a way. When we build it, they will come, as a good I once said. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield my time
▶ 1:52:57The gentleman yields back. Thank you so much. Um, at this time, the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. person hands recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 1:53:04Thank you, Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Davis for holding this hearing today. Uh, one of the main concerns I hear from my constituents about the federal grants process is that too often most of the money flows to larger cities, leaving our already struggling rural communities behind. Uh, this is why the USDA uh rural development is so important.
▶ 1:53:24It provides the resources and technical assistance that small towns need to succeed, especially those that do not have professional grant writers or experience uh applying for federal funds. Uh small communities can go to RD for help with moderniz modernization of wastewater systems and public facilities like fire and police stations, building out rural broadband, and providing lowinterest home loans.
▶ 1:53:47Just last year, almost $45 million from various RD programs uh came into northeastern Pennsylvania. Uh some highlights include over 2 million from the community facilities program to greater Hazelton Kand do to purchase an existing commercial building to help with their mission of attracting businesses and entrepreneurship to the greater Hazelton area and a $8.7 million loan through the water and waste disposal program to exit burrow to upgrade their aging storm water and sewer systems
▶ 1:54:18where my family grew up. However, I know many more communities in my district could take advantage of the wide range of RD programs if they simply knew where what was available and how to obtain it. Uh, Commissioner Himl, as someone who also comes from a rural county in Pennsylvania, what advice would you offer to counties and communities in my district for identifying rural development programs that they could
▶ 1:54:43There's no easy answer. Um, I think it's daunting to a lot of uh local officials. Um, they don't have grant writers. They don't have uh personnel that are particularly familiar with the process. They don't really have easy access to what the programs would be.
▶ 1:55:00I think the capacity building is uh is a very important element of this and I think that the USDA actually can contribute to that to help the uh local particularly very rural areas be able to access that with resources at the at the departmental level. Um so much money uh goes as you say to the urban areas because the rurals which may have more needs in many ways uh aren't aware of it or just simply can't tap into it.
▶ 1:55:30And the uh administrative responsibilities after you apply for a grant, after you do all the research to find out what it is, after you pull the department or the various uh stakeholders together and research it and file your application and dog your application and then have to do all the reporting. So many rural communities do not have personnel that are uh empowered to do that. They they're not available and they're doing about four other jobs at the same time.
▶ 1:55:57Well, I was worried that's what you were going to say. So the 11 words uh that you never want to hear from the government that we're here and uh here to help honestly. Uh what about Miss Brand, Miss Forb, Miss Forbes, do you have any um anything else that you would like to add to that? rural development organizations like myself. There's 500 of us across the United States. So, um they should reach out to them. Uh they they should be able to give them a breath of knowledge of these are the types of programs that you're eligible for, what's your project?
▶ 1:56:26Um and then if they need to bring in extra technical assistance, certainly reach out to those local uh rural development officials that actually that's their job um and to help them figure out what is the best path
▶ 1:56:40Mrs. Brand, would you have anything to add?
▶ 1:56:45Well, I think um definitely partnering um with USDA rural development partnered and continued partnering in and enforcing that relationship across the country with um organizations that have that technical assistance.
▶ 1:56:57Um certainly the field team um even though we've already talked about the concerns about the numbers of of field offices and and the num employees there are still play a very vital role and that's that's where the heart is of rural development are those people and the passion they live in those communities and know the communities best.
▶ 1:57:16So use the government as a partner not as an adversary per se. Uh thank you. I look forward to taking your advice back home and helping more of our smaller communities take advantage of these opportunities. Uh, also I'm excited to soon bring Pennsylvania state director uh for rural development and my friend Mike Cabel uh along with some of the state program leaders up to my district in northeastern Pennsylvania to hold aformational session where communities can learn what programs rural development offers and how to successfully apply for this federal assistance.
▶ 1:57:47With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time. That gentleman yields balances of his time. And Mr. Chair, I would take a moment to um emphasize that rural development is so vital um for communities across our country. I want to personally thank each witness for being here today. Um thank you for your devotion um to rural America.
▶ 1:58:16Thank you for your commitment to um all those in the communities that rely upon us and you made this hearing today um so much better and I look forward to making a step forward um so that we can do our part to make life better for families, hardworking families in rural America. Mr. Chair,
▶ 1:58:39yes. Uh so well said and of course life in rural America can be uh beautiful uh rewarding special there can also be challenges and in that way rural Americans don't really have the luxury of our partisan bickering. They just want a government that works. And so I want to thank our witnesses as well as the members of this panel today for arming for aiming at that target rather than the target of uh of partisan infighting that sometimes we see in this town.
▶ 1:59:09Uh under the rules of the committee, the record of today's hearing will remain open for 10 calendar days to receive additional material and supplementary written responses from the witnesses to any question posed by a member. And unless there is anything else for the good of the order, this hearing of the subcommittee on commodity markets, digital assets, and rural development is adjourned.