▶ 0:12:23by a terrorist that came here from [snorts] Afghanistan. Um, her sacrifice and his struggle will not be forgotten. So, please join me in a moment of silence. Thank you.
▶ 0:12:55I want to thank our witnesses for being here today to discuss ways to strengthen America's workforce with one of the best populations of Americans. Those are veterans. They know where to be, when to be, and what uniform to be in, and they're not on drugs. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine how the Department of Veterans Affairs provides opportunities for veterans to explore non-traditional education, whether that be through apprenticeship, on the job training, or the transition assistance program. And I look forward to continuing the nonpartisan spirit of this subcommittee along with ranking member Mr. Papist. Great to see him after Thanksgiving.
▶ 0:13:25Uh to ensure that the VA is working in lock step with today's job market to meet the needs of today's veterans. Uh, unfortunately, the Department of Labor was unable to come here today because the Senate has continued to slow walk the confirmation process of President Trump's appointees, and I encourage them strongly to just get these people in place. This is not a political issue. We need our political leaders in the executive branch to be able to execute the the programs that we write for them. Um, last Congress, the Biden administration do vets consistently failed veterans. We had multiple hearings about that.
▶ 0:13:55By the end of the Congress, their employee employment statistics were worse than a regular American job center. This committee must have must hear how do you all vets is going to turn it around and I look forward to having Mr. Workman testify shortly after he's confirmed. Uh on this note, uh we had a rather contentious meeting with Mr. Tim Cummings who is in place now and I'd like to apologize to him for getting a little senior chiefty on him which I did.
▶ 0:14:20Um, and I have the utmost confidence in uh in uh Secretary Chavez Dreamer and also Secretary Collins to work this out for the betterment of the veterans. That's very important uh for all of us. And we we do understand that's the higher purpose. Um this hearing is not only getting these VA programs back on track, but also to note the importance of shoring up American manufacturing as a national security issue.
▶ 0:14:42I also serve on the House Armed Services Committee and I can't tell you enough how badly America needs to re-energize defense manufacturing so that we're always ready uh for today and tomorrow to defend our way of life. One of the best ways to do this is to show these companies that have jobs available that there are thousands of veterans ready to fill them. Many veterans use the GI Bill within a year of transitioning out of the military oftent times as a fallback option when they do not know what [clears throat] their next mission is.
▶ 0:15:08And veterans using VA's OJT and apprentichip programs are able to supplement their income with both the living stipen payment from the VA for the post 911 GI Bill benefits as well as wages from their employer while they are enrolled in these VA programs. At the end of their training program, they're able to step right into a beneficial career. I don't I don't know of many major programs at institutions of higher learning that can promise a job at the end of their programs.
▶ 0:15:33This promise of employment through the apprenticeship training is what makes the VA program so special and can help combat undermployment and suicide in our veterans population. In VA's most recent annual benefits report, the number of veterans using their postgi bill to pursue OJT or apprenticeship continues to decline.
▶ 0:15:50In 2023, there were only 1,08 apprenticeships and 776 OT OJT participants representing less than 1% of the postGI bill population with some states having zero individuals participating in this program. We are spending around $241 million a year on administrative expenses which include staff salaries and counseling services for such a low success rate. And that's just pathetic. I mean that's just got to stop.
▶ 0:16:15The number of veterans in this program and our administrative spending are concerning, especially given the involvement or the evolving needs of today's workforce in the 21st century. This Congress, my subcommittee has championed key legislatives regarding VA's apprentichip programs. My bill HR 982, the Warriors Workforce Act, would increase the monthly housing allowance that a veteran pursuing an apprenticeship or on the job training receives during a 6 to 12 month from 80 to 90%.
▶ 0:16:40Additionally, Representative Barrett led a bill that passed the House, HR 3055, the Transport Jobs Act, which would connect military veterans with supply chain employment while helping veterans secure careers that put their skills and ex expertise to use. And my friend from Arizona, Representative Sisammani, has an important bill, HR1458, that would expand GI bill opportunities to get veterans into mechanical fields.
▶ 0:17:04Even ranking member Papis Chris right here has a bill which I'm co-sponsoring the veterans uh trans excuse me transitioning to trucking act which allow VA to access as a state approving agent for apprentichip programs in more than one state to receive uh VA providence it's an outstanding bill Chris uh clearly this goal of getting veterans at the forefront of critical positions in American economy is a nonpartisan issue I would now like to yield to ranking member Papus for his opening remarks Well, thank you very
▶ 0:17:34much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for the bipartisan spirit there. As you uh highlighted some important initiatives on the legislative front, I'm really glad to be here for this important hearing. And before I begin, I want to just state that I'm disappointed that DO vets won't be joining this hearing and we won't be hearing their testimony today, but I'm glad to have VA uh with us. Um there's an important issue that I wanted to address at the outset here, and that's the issue of chapter 35 benefits.
▶ 0:17:57And I think it's important to hear from VA about the fact that 75,000 survivors and dependents using Chapter 35 benefits have seen delays over the last many months. Veterans, survivors, and dependents across the country who rely on these benefits for housing, education, or anything else have been left in limbo with no acknowledgement of the issue or any indication from VA when the problem will be resolved. Now, we've got a a hearing in a few weeks on this topic, but I was just discussing this with the chairman in advance of this hearing. I'm hopeful to hear more from Mr.
▶ 0:18:26Smith today uh that he can communicate an update in terms of what's going on, not just for us here in the room, but for the veterans, families, and survivors at home that have been waiting for their benefits for far too long. I'm respectfully requesting this because we're at the end of the semester, four months in. Beneficiaries haven't been able to receive payments and can't wait another two weeks to find out what is happening and what the status is. It's just unacceptable that VA has failed to communicate when answers are needed. Today, we've been hearing from this in our office to put a human face on this.
▶ 0:18:56I have a disabled veteran from Laconia, New Hampshire, who reached out to our office because his son's benefits were delayed uh a couple months at that point in time. Chapter 35 beneficiaries, they need to budget. They need to sign leases, pay for textbooks and food, and they need answers. So, at the hearing in two weeks, I expect VA to send a prepared witness to directly respond uh to these challenges and to uh talk about um the substantive specific information that can help us understand this situation.
▶ 0:19:23the witness should be a political appointee that will not pass the buck. So, with tens of thousands of Americans lives um impacted by VA's error, it's absolutely unacceptable that not a single VA official has bothered to respond to letters that have been sent by ranking member to Tano, ranking member Blumenthal, and myself to the department. It's unacceptable that the department canceled a briefing on this topic on October 1st. I know that one will be conducted later.
▶ 0:19:48um that it was over 2 months from when this was originally requested and it's almost unbelievable that we found out that the impacted beneficiaries grew from 750 people to over 75,000 through the press. There was no communication from the department to the committee about this. So, this isn't a partisan issue. We all have student veterans and survivors in our districts who have waited months for any information. And so, in that spirit, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can work together on this um and focus on getting the answers that our constituents deserve.
▶ 0:20:16Lastly, when we do convene a hearing on this, it's critical that we hear directly from student veterans themselves, from their families, from survivors to fully understand the impact on this failure on their lives. Now, to the topic at hand today, employment pathways for veterans. There's a variety of government programs designed to help veterans secure employment after their service. But we frequently hear from companies that navigating all the programs and the various agencies is confusing and it doesn't meet the needs of employers.
▶ 0:20:42It's clear to me that much more progress needs to be made to improve VAS, DoD's, and DO systems so that more employers are willing to participate. When you compare the results for employment focused programs like Skillbridge with education focused programs like Vette, it's clear that involving employers early is key to placing veterans in jobs and careers. Data shows that programs run directly by employers, trade groups, and unions where veterans get on the job training, upskilling, and certifications continue to result in successful job placements.
▶ 0:21:11While companies save on recruiting and salary, and the government saves on training costs, it's a win-win. This dynamic with the government paying a living stipen and employers paying for training is a perfect example of a public private partnership that benefits everyone involved, most importantly, the veteran. That being said, we need to continue to ensure that these partnership opportunities aren't limited to big business. Small and medium-sized companies must have the opportunity to participate, to train, and hire veterans, which may be where trade groups and unions come in.
▶ 0:21:40Our small businesses and union partners strengthen communities and can provide veterans opportunities closer to home. So today, I'd like to hear from our uh employer panel on their interactions with various DoD, VA, and DO vets programs, their thoughts on if we should specialize different programs further, and what a single point of entry for employers would look like, and how we should advertise the benefits of participating in these programs to the rest of the business community, and who should be responsible for that.
▶ 0:22:06So, in closing, I just want to note um one difference between the programs that we're talking about today and the GI Bill. Since its inception in 1944, the GI Bill's educational component has been about more than just going to school. It's a tool to help reintegrate service members back into civil society after their service, to ensh them back into their communities, and to build connections after being gone in service of their nation. So, we must hold those 36 months of eligibility sacred, especially now that the benefit does not expire thanks to the Forever GI Bill.
▶ 0:22:36We must resist the urge to water it down by using it to pay for other benefits. So, if an employment program that we're talking about today drains a veteran's GI Bill benefit, we must absolutely ensure that number one, it results in an actual gainful employment and that the start of a career is uh meaningful and not a dead-end job. Number two, that it protects veterans from bad actors who take advantage of them. and number three that it fulfills Congress's original intent of the 1944 GI Bill by helping to reintegrate service members through community building and substantive interaction.
▶ 0:23:07Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:23:09You're welcome, sir. Thank you, Ranking Member Papis. And I'll just be frank. As long as I'm the chairman of the subcommittee and Mike Boston is the the chair of the the whole committee, uh the GI bill will not be touched, nor will the VA home loan guarantee program. It's interesting that you and I think are responsible for the two most successful programs the United States government has ever in uh ever created and I'm I'm very proud to do that. So I got you. I'll now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Mr.
▶ 0:23:36Kenneth Smith, executive director at Education Services, Veterans Benefit Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Accompanying Mr. Smith is Miss Chanel. It's Chantiel.
▶ 0:23:46Correct. Sir Chantiel. Chantiel Stoval, acting executive director, Veterans Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I'd ask that the witnesses please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
▶ 0:24:06Very well. Thank you. You may sit. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Mr. Smith, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Uh, thank you uh, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papas, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today to discuss how we can strengthen the veteran workforce. Joining me today is Shantiel Stoval, acting executive director of veterans readiness and employment.
▶ 0:24:32We're honored to speak with you about how VA is supporting veterans as they transition from military to civilian life, especially through vocational rehabilitation, non-ol degree training, and employment focused programs. Transition support begins early. VA is committed to supporting every service member transitioning from the military to the civilian workforce as seamlessly as possible.
▶ 0:24:55Through our department partnership with the Department of War, VA reaches approximately 200,000 service members each year through the transition assistance program. TAP helps service members understand and access the full range of VA benefits, including education, employment, and healthcare. To further support transition in 2019, VA launched the VA Solid Start program.
▶ 0:25:18Solid Start calls all eligible veterans regardless of their character of discharge at three key stages during the first year after separation from active duty. These calls are unscripted and focus on connecting connecting veterans to the right resources at the right time. Since its launch, VASS has successfully connected with nearly 75% of eligible veterans.
▶ 0:25:41And these veterans are more likely to use their other VA services critical to securing meaningful In addition to programs provided during service and transition, VA supports veterans towards their pathways to employment and career readiness, including the veterans readiness and employment program, benefits focused on education, and non-governmental collaboration and support.
▶ 0:26:04VRNE is the cornerstone of our employment support through individualized counseling, employment planning, and hands-on training for disabled veterans seeking to overcome service connected disabilities and return to work. In FY2024 alone, VR& conducted nearly 20,000 one-on-one briefings with transitioning service members.
▶ 0:26:24The program also supports non-ol pathways like apprenticeships, on the job training, and the non-paid work experience program, helping veterans gain real world skills in fields like trucking, plumbing, and contracting. Personalized career planning and guidance counseling is available to discharging veterans and ensures that they make the most informed choice for their post-military education and employment path.
▶ 0:26:49PCPG helps veterans weigh options for college, apprenticeships, certificate programs, on the job training, and other high demand sectors to maximize career outcomes and economic mobility. Non-ol degree training is a growing priority, and VA is ready to assist. President Trump issued executive orders 14278 and 1426-9 to optimize and target federal programs in workforce development for high-paying skilled trades and maritime industries.
▶ 0:27:20In FY2024, over 17,000 post 911 GI Bill beneficiaries began vocational or technical training and nearly 1,800 entered on the job or apprenticeship programs. Benefits may be used for apprenticeships in OJT and high-paying skilled trades, including advanced manufacturing, welding, automation, and industrial technology.
▶ 0:27:41Additionally, VA reimburses for licensing and certification exams such as for commercial driving, home inspection, nursing assistance, and artificial intelligence. VA will continue to partner with Department of Labor and others to expand marketing to assist employers in recruiting veterans and ensure veterans are aware of the GI Bill opportunities, including apprenticeships and OJT In fiscal year 2026, VA looks forward to the implementation of
▶ 0:28:12the new Vette program authorized by the Elizabeth Dole Act to connect veterans to high-tech training in fields like cyber security, data analytics, and cloud computing. During the pilot phase, over 16,000 veterans completed training and more than 8,000 secured meaningful employment within six months, earning an average starting salary of over $65,000.
▶ 0:28:36In closing, VA is committed to ensuring that every transitioning service member and veteran has access to the tools, training, and support they need to succeed in the civilian workforce, whether through college, vocational training, or direct employment pathways. Thank you and I look forward to your
▶ 0:28:54Thank you, Mr. Smith. The written statement of Mr. Smith will be entered into the hearing record. We're now going to proceed with questioning and I will remind our members that you'll each have five minutes for your questions. I now recognize recommen.
▶ 0:29:07Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Smith, if I could uh turn to you and just get at the um challenges that I presented in my um opening remarks that veterans are facing right now with respect to chapter 35 uh benefits for veterans and their survivors. Can you talk u and give us an update on these chapter 35 issues? Back in August, uh we received information that this was an issue impacting about 750 individuals. Uh schools found out that that number was more like 75,000.
▶ 0:29:37Um, so where does that number stand? And most importantly, when can these beneficiaries in districts like ours receive their overdue payments? Thank you for the question. We look forward to addressing chapter 35 questions in detail at the upcoming hearing as well as in our staff uh briefing this Friday. Uh we've continued to make progress through the 42 days of the shutdown and the 13 business days since then.
▶ 0:30:03Uh, and we will have a full set of statistics for you at that hearing or on Friday. But
▶ 0:30:08I'm not asking for complete detail right now, but just some assurance that VA is working on this issue and making progress. Um, we're talking about thousands and thousands of veterans and their family members that have been impacted by this. Um, they deserve an answer today. We've sent a couple letters on this topic. One dated uh October 3rd to the department, another dated uh November 13th. It's been crickets. We haven't heard anything back. and veterans deserve an answer. So, can you give them a little bit more of an assurance how VA is working to address this?
▶ 0:30:38You have my assurance that we've been working on it. Our field team of claims processors has been hard at work doing this through the shutdown. Uh I apologize for the delays in these letters. It's my understanding that they're working their way through the VA uh concurrence process and will be released to you as soon as possible.
▶ 0:30:54So, where does that number stand? How many folks are waiting right now?
▶ 0:30:57I I can't provide you an answer on that right now. Are you going to provide us with a briefing in advance of the hearing in two weeks that will give us a little bit more detail so that we can uh provide the oversight that uh veterans and their family members deserve?
▶ 0:31:10Yes, sir. Now, can you talk a little bit more about um some of the other challenges the department has faced? Um and I'm just wondering in terms of the lapse of of funding um who's made decisions with respect to furlowing employees during the shutdown. Um, is it your understanding that the White House's guidance during the lapse and appropriations was that employees supporting government funded programs, including mandatory programs, were to be essential and working during the
▶ 0:31:38Sir, our VA contingency plan was published on the website. I know decisions were made far above my level about uh furlow status. Um, so I'd have to take that back uh for the department to respond to.
▶ 0:31:51So, who made those decisions terms of the programs we're talking about today? In terms of the overall VA posture, uh, I can't say, sir. I'd have to get the department's, um, uh, opinion on that. Well, we're going to need more detail there, too. Uh, Miss Stoville, if I can turn to you about VR& um, the American Legion statement for the record highlighted concerns with staffing numbers, and that's a an ongoing challenge we've discussed in this subcommittee quite frequently.
▶ 0:32:19Um, so what's the current counselor to veteran Currently the ratio is one to 200.
▶ 0:32:28Okay. And how many counselor job openings do you have across the country? And can you just assess whether counselors are keeping up with that workload knowing that that ratio is far above where uh the target is? Yeah, we have um 1,310 positions allocated for our VRC VRS's and we have currently um 1,0 on boarded.
▶ 0:32:52And and to the second part of your question, so we have um implemented our national case assignment strategy to help with those high work high case lows at some of the stations that have lower capacity to complete some of that work. We're also um implementing overtime for our VRC's on a voluntary basis.
▶ 0:33:13And we're also um uh implementing help teams to uh complete orientations to get veterans into entitlement decision, see counselors for entitlement decisions more quickly.
▶ 0:33:26Yeah. And and how have these issues impacted the veteran experience? What what are their wait times like for VR&?
▶ 0:33:32So the current overall wait time is 81 days. So, prior to the shutdown, we were seeing a decline um from 54 days down to 50 days, and now we're currently at 81 days. Um and um again, we are using those help teams to help us make sure that we can get veterans um seen and entitlement decisions and plans written so that they are able to start school in
▶ 0:33:58Well, thank you. I appreciate your attention to those matters and I yield
▶ 0:34:02The ranking member yields back. The chair now recognizes Mr. Mr. Barry from the great state of Michigan for 5
▶ 0:34:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you to the panel. Thank you both for being here today. And Mr. Chairman, thank you for the shout out on the Transport Jobs Act. We're hopeful that that will help kind of bridge the gap between uh members leaving military service and finding employment in critical uh sectors of the economy where we certainly have a shortage uh taking place.
▶ 0:34:26And um you know this really struck a chord with me recently as we saw the tragic case out in California where a illegal CDL operator illegal immigrant in the country performed an illegal maneuver left to you know to the fatalities of Americans that were here.
▶ 0:34:40And to me, I'm thinking about this and I'm like, why are we why are we operating a system where it is benefiting people operating illegally when we could be employing veterans who have trained and are qualified in these ways, but may not have the appropriate civilian licensing that's necessary. They've driven trucks. They've done supply chain jobs and their military capacity, but then they don't have the reciprocity with civilian licensing to get that uh appropriate job and opportunity back home.
▶ 0:35:10Uh one of the original reasons, the very first reason I was u motivated to run for office a decade ago, I came home from the army and I saw that a whole host of my uh battle buddies that I had served with were really struggling to find opportunities in Michigan at the time. And we were leading the country. We were the second overall state in the nation for veteran unemployment rate.
▶ 0:35:32This is back in, you know, the um 2000 mid 2000 2015 time frame and uh Michigan was coming out of this great recession at the time and we were hit predominantly hard in that effect and veterans always seem to suffer the worst brunt of economic downturns and having a robust ability for transitioning veterans to come home is really important because I think it really provides that stability, that purpose and that fundamental dignity that comes with um with being
▶ 0:36:02someone who is transitioning back home and finding that next mission in life. So, the work that we do on this committee is really important in that effort to to really establish a framework for how we're going to welcome people back home and provide them that self-sufficient dignity that they deserve. Um, I had a few questions for you about some of the shifts that we've seen within the economy away from maybe some of the traditional four-year degree programs and into other skilled trade or other skilled professions and things like that.
▶ 0:36:32And I'm curious if you can give us any insight why we've still seen an overwhelming prepoundonderance of people going into the traditional four-year degree fields and less inclined to go into the uh trade opportunities that may be a better fit for them based on their skills that they've acquired in the military.
▶ 0:36:51Thank you for the question, sir. And I I wish I had a good answer for you. Uh but honestly I um we do not have uh a survey mechanism to ask veterans why they why they choose the uh path that they choose. Uh that would certainly be, you know, something that we
▶ 0:37:10Do you think it Do you think it has anything to do with the reimbursement rates and what they can qualify for under a four-year program versus a trade opportunity, the apprenticeship programs and some of the the just um I guess reimbursement and other uh value ability of some of these programs that are available to them. It could be um there are a number of uh instances where if you look at
▶ 0:37:34um a four-year, you know, what we pay for a four-year college degree. Yeah.
▶ 0:37:38Uh the total package value would be much higher than for a a non-ol degree or an apprenticeship program.
▶ 0:37:47Okay. And then um I know I I actually was in Michigan a few weeks ago in my district and uh met with the man who runs this group, Workshops for Warriors. I think he's actually testified in front of this subcommittee last Congress and he told me that there is a cap. He runs a a trade program, a skilled trade uh apprenticeship type program to give certification to veterans, things like that. I think he told me there's a cap for an institution of how many of their students can receive GI Bill and other veteran benefits.
▶ 0:38:17Is that true that there's a limitation there for for There is a a statutory requirement for um 85% um it's an 8515 rule um up to 85%
▶ 0:38:35uh supportable um through uh government
▶ 0:38:39Is there a waiver available for that or would that need to be provided in law?
▶ 0:38:42Yes, and I'm sorry I said that backwards. Um 85% non-funded, 15% funded. we can give a waiver uh to allow someone to exceed 35% as well. So uh that that waiver opportunity is
▶ 0:38:55Thank you. Appreciate it. With that, Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back with 10 seconds to go.
▶ 0:38:59The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes Mr. Kennedy from great state of New York.
▶ 0:39:03Thank you. Uh thank you all for being here. Your testimony. The GI Bill is a sacred promise that helps veterans pursue education, transition into civilian life and provide for their families, including the survivors and children of those who have sacrificed everything. Our responsibility on this committee is to ensure that that promise remains strong.
▶ 0:39:28A recent negotiated rule from the Department of Education on loan limits for certain advanced graduate degrees has raised serious concerns, especially for veterans pursuing fields like nursing, education, physical and occupational therapy, social work, and many other advanced degrees in health care particularly, but not exclusively.
▶ 0:39:50And these are students and veterans who rely on both GI benefits and federal loans to cover the full cost of their We need answers about delays as well on chapter 35 benefits for survivors independents. The VA has not responded to congressional inquiries and recent staffing cuts affecting payment processing is certainly troubling.
▶ 0:40:18And these issues require immediate attention and the delay is beyond concerning. It's infuriating quite frankly. Mr. Smith, countless Americans, including future nurses, therapists, and other essential healthcare providers, are worried they may no longer be able to complete their graduate professional degree programs under the Department of Education's rule that restricts access to federal loans for certain health care professions. Veterans relying on GI Bill benefits deserve immediate clarity.
▶ 0:40:48Is it your understanding that GI Bill coverage for professional degree programs like nursing, physical and occupational therapy, and others will remain entirely separate from and completely unaffected by the Department of Education's draft Uh thank you for the question, sir.
▶ 0:41:07I'm unaware of the details of the Department of Education's draft rule, but we do pay benefits um up to the annual max uh amount set by Congress for private schools. For public schools, uh there is no limit.
▶ 0:41:25Uh and as well the yellow ribbon program allows veterans to and allows schools to match 50% to exceed that uh the max cap that is set uh each
▶ 0:41:39The rule uh that was passed in the big ugly bill. It cuts the ability of for a student in half to achieve their federal loan uh need. My question is very simple. Will that impact our veterans who also rely on the GI Bill?
▶ 0:42:01We will continue to administer GI Bill payments uh just as we always have. Uh I I can imagine a difference to the Department of Education on that.
▶ 0:42:11Okay. So, you don't know the answer?
▶ 0:42:14I I do not know.
▶ 0:42:15Okay. Well, well, unfortunately, that doesn't answer my question. Obviously, uh veterans, including those pursuing these advanced degrees in healthcare, need clear guidance and assurances. Many are still going to uh require federal loans even after using their GI Bill benefits. And if those loans are restricted under this rule, it's going to impede their ability to afford their education.
▶ 0:42:40Hence, they're not going to go into these health care roles where the need for nursing uh by 2033. Uh we're told from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, we we need to be hiring 200,000 nurses a year to achieve where we need to be. So, we're already behind the APAL and we know our veterans uh make great nurses and healthc care practitioners across the board.
▶ 0:43:07So, I'm I'm curious how the VA is assessing the impact on uh these VA benefits and you know, how are our returning veterans that are trying to go into these fields, how are they going to be impacted?
▶ 0:43:24The statute allows us to pay 36 months of benefits in the post under the post 911 GI Bill program. We will continue to deliver benefits uh to include both tuition and fees, books and supplies as well as the uh monthly housing allowance to all veterans uh who are in the program.
▶ 0:43:43I think this is essential that the VA consider moving forward is how to prevent veterans who have served our nation from being denied access or being pushed out of the field that they would like to go into, especially with such a great need for healthcare practitioners in this country.
▶ 0:44:03The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes Representative King Hines from the beautiful northern Mariana
▶ 0:44:10Thank you, Mr. chairman and and thank you to the witnesses for the opportunity to have a conversation this morning. Um, you know, jobs, right? We're here because we want to talk about how we get these vets employed. And one of the things that I always hear back home that makes me laugh, but makes me kind of sad. Um, is when I see certain vets, they're like, "Thank you for your service, but where's the service for my service?" Right?
▶ 0:44:38because I think there are gaps in terms of some of these programs that they're entitled to. Uh that's not translating into them after, you know, leaving service to get into um a career where some of these benefits that are currently provided for um is not leading to that path.
▶ 0:45:00I also sit in the small business committee and one of the conversations that we had last week with some of the panelists is um you know just the shortage of workers in certain indust in in certain industries like manufacturing right and one of the panelists said something that really struck me which was you know it's not educ it shouldn't be education for all but careers for all because what we're seeing as a trend across the country is that there's all these jobs that just very
▶ 0:45:31hard to fill because we don't have the skilled labor. And so, um, I'm listening to the conversation that we're having about the GI Bill and, you know, uh, Rep. Barrett's question with regards to the amount of benefits that are given for 4-year degree programs versus these technical trade schools types of uh, programs that are available.
▶ 0:45:59And obviously folks are going to be incentivized to pursue the 4-year route, right, if you're going to get more money. And so, how do we how do we look at that gap and create an opportunity where trade school education has the same value as a four-year degree within the system?
▶ 0:46:27and I'll I'll it's an open-ending question to both of you.
▶ 0:46:31Thank you for the question. Uh I think uh we're certainly willing to help Congress um and we can meet with you as well as with employers and other stakeholders to have that conversation about the policy issues and how to resolve those through um new statute.
▶ 0:46:52Did you want to chime in, Miss Dole? So I would say um in my in my four short four months that I've been in this position, it has been rather exploratory and so I do um know that um we have some some areas where we can focus more on employment and that is one of the I one of the areas that I'm looking to improve.
▶ 0:47:19Um, currently we do have um 96% of our participants that are following our employment through long-term services track um and only about 2.5% that are in our rapid access track, which is the track that we use for veterans that um have skills and may just need resume development and job job development services to help them.
▶ 0:47:42So, uh I am um looking into that to see what is driving that high usage rate of our employment through long-term services track to see how we can um improve and leverage participation of our other tracks that may be more appropriate.
▶ 0:47:59We do know that veterans come out of the military with um uh multiple skill sets and so we need to figure out what we need to do to make sure that we are utilizing them when we're looking at how we can return them to the employment market.
▶ 0:48:15Would you do you see um some sort of perhaps an accrediting as something that would be beneficial so that when you know folks are in the military who already develop a certain skill right when they come out some sort of an accrediting body can now take whatever that skill level is so that they're not now having to replicate the same training that they've already had and that they've already been doing
▶ 0:48:45but could actually have physical paperwork to say I'm qualified, I'm certified, I have the credentials.
▶ 0:48:54Thank you for the question. I I do believe that um it is for VR& I think it is important for us to help them identify how they are able to um sell themselves and uh when they're talking to employers.
▶ 0:49:12The gentle lady's time is expired. The chair now recognizes Mr. Ramirez from uh the great state of Illinois.
▶ 0:49:18Thank you, chairman, and thank you, ranking member, u for having us in this hearing today. And I want to thank uh both of our witnesses who are joining us today. Uh it's been a couple months since uh this committee, this subcommittee met, and a lot has happened in in those five months. So, I want to go ahead and start um since I'm not sure when we'll have another uh committee hearing and talk a little bit about the effects of the last five months, but really I want to talk about uh the impact that the government shutdown had on veterans. And Mr.
▶ 0:49:48Smith, I want to go ahead and start with you, Mr. Smith. For the record, did the government shutdown negatively affect veterans? Yes or no?
▶ 0:50:04Thank you. Yeah. And and just for the record, I appreciate you answering honestly here. 1.2 million veterans were at risk of losing SNAP benefits, as you know, and more than 75,000 veterans and their family members had their tuition and housing payments delayed after the software problem stopped the automated delivery of their benefits.
▶ 0:50:23We also know that 56 VA regional benefit offices were closed to the public and more than 16,000 service members preparing to leave the military were unable to receive the VA transition briefings. So, Mr. Smith, uh recognizing that you saw the impact, did the government furlow any veteran employees at the VA? Yes or
▶ 0:50:47Did we furlow?
▶ 0:50:48Did you furlow any veteran employees at the veteran affairs um department? I'm sure we did.
▶ 0:50:54Yeah. Yeah, you did. According to the VA press release, 37,000 VA employees were furoughed and estimates that are about 120,000 veterans that work for the VA um also were impacted. So, it's likely that um many many veterans uh were furoughed. Mr. Smith, did the government shutdown have any negative impact on veterans trying to access educational benefits like the GI Bill hotline or the VRN counseling case management? Yes or no?
▶ 0:51:26The education call center was closed during the shutdown.
▶ 0:51:30So, it was impacted. Okay. So, just for the record, I just want to make sure we note this since we have not met for the last five months and uh this shutdown uh by the majority really had an impact. I want to make sure I put this on the record. More than 900,000 veterans were unable to get assistance from the GI Bill hotline. More than 100,000 enrolled veterans did not get their veteran readiness and employment program counseling or case management services.
▶ 0:51:55And by October 30th, there was a backlog of new applicants for the program of more than 61,988 applications. I want to make sure I put that on the record. I also want to state that I was extremely frustrated that uh my staff were working around the clock every single day and they were unable to connect with a congressional liaison when they were attempting to um advocate on behalf of the veterans that I represent.
▶ 0:52:21Uh the secretary directed leaders and staff within the VA to use congressionally appropriated funds to send these politically charged messages to veterans and congressional staff about the shutdown which I think is a clear violation of the Hatch Act instead of trying to work with us to try to help them. So I want to make sure that I note this because the shutdown may have ended but the impact is still there. With that the last minute and a half I have I want to talk a little bit more about workforce opportunities here.
▶ 0:52:48Access to a quality education is one of the promises we made to veterans and we must deliver. The Vette is now drowning on GI Bill benefits. Yet VA's own data shows that the Vette's employment rate is only at 49% within the 180 days of program completion. So, Mr. Smith.
▶ 0:53:05When VA's own data shows that the Vette fails to lead to employment for more than half of participating veterans, isn't restoring their GI bill benefits essential so veterans are not stuck paying the price when their training fails to yield gainful employment?
▶ 0:53:24Uh thank you for the question. Um my un based on the statute uh and design of the vette program authorized by the Elizabeth Dole act uh if there is no remaining entitlement the veteran is allowed to train without cost. Uh so they are allowed to enroll and pursue the vette program. uh and then they are charged entitlement if they do have remaining entitlement
▶ 0:53:49and yet half of the participating participating veterans are not getting their restorated GI Bill benefits. So I just want to make sure I note that because the purpose is to be able to help them get gainful employment and and that's why you know I think some of us have been working the last few years. I have 10 seconds left, chairman, and I worked on the Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act, and I'm going to be reintroducing it, and it'll be really important for us to work bipartisan the way we did before to make sure this bill finally passes. With that, I yield back.
▶ 0:54:19The general lady yields back. The chair now recognizes my great friend, Mr. Wes Kamani from State of Arizona.
▶ 0:54:26Thank you, sir. Thank you, chairman. Um, and thank you all for for the witnesses here for being here as well to testify about this important topic. You know, as our country continues to face shortages in key industries like electrical work, trucking, manufacturing, and energy, this committee must ensure that veterans are made aware of every pathway to a meaningful career.
▶ 0:54:47In a recent survey, more than 70% of veteran readiness employment uh participants of the VR VR&E enter into an under undergraduate program where about three and a half% entered into a vocational or technical program and participation rates on for on the job training remain especially low. Given the robust wages and impressive employment outcomes associated with these programs, it's clear that significant improvements in outreach are needed.
▶ 0:55:15My bill HR1458, the Veteran Education and Technical Skills Opportunity Act, the Vets Act Opportunity Act, expands access to vocational and technical training by extending educational benefits in the post 911 GI Bill to include both inerson and hybrid versions of skilled trade training programs in order to address skilled trade labor shortages.
▶ 0:55:36Today's hearing is an opportunity to learn how the VA is refocusing on all educational pathways, degrees and non-deree, and the best ways we can assist veterans in obtaining high-paying jobs and strengthen the American um workforce and and the shortages associated with that. So, I I've got a I want to start off with a question here u regarding the uh uh the Dole Act. Now, the the Mr. Smith, this is for you.
▶ 0:56:01the the Dole Act was signed into law last January and uh and it included improvements to the Vette program that is very key to the issues that we're talking about here. Now, the VA uh now it says that it's going to implement the Vette program into the first quarter of 2026. That's well over a year after this was signed into law. This is quite frankly unacceptable. I'm not sure why it's taking so long, especially given that Congress paid for the provisions uh to this almost immediately.
▶ 0:56:30I'm also on the appropriations committee so I know that well we have the legislation and we had the appropriated funds for that as well. So why why has it taken this long and and why can we implement it today?
▶ 0:56:42Uh sir, thank you for the question. Uh we've been working uh to build it a payment or a claims processing and payment system uh to support the Vette program. because of the changes to the the underlying program, the requirements changed and we needed to make changes to our claims processing u tool.
▶ 0:57:05Secondly, our new payment processing system needs to be updated so that it can also process and pay those. Uh we're looking to do that um in third quarter of this year. Be done in third quarter of this year so that we can field that program.
▶ 0:57:23Third quarter of this year.
▶ 0:57:25Yes. 26.
▶ 0:57:27Okay. Of next year then you're talking
▶ 0:57:30we're in fiscal year 26. I'm sorry.
▶ 0:57:32Okay. Okay. On the fiscal year. Gotcha. Uh well there's there's got to be a way to be able to speed this up. I mean the funds are there. The legislation was passed. this has a direct impact on where we want to go here with workforce, especially when we talk about the the traits and and and so on.
▶ 0:57:48So, um I'm hoping to maybe get a little more concrete um timeline or or what's in the way of this, but I I do want to add some um friendly pressure here because this is uh time is of the essence here. And again, it's been it'll be over a year by the time that that you know, your stated goal of quarter one gets uh gets implemented. So hopefully we can get we can get on that pretty quickly.
▶ 0:58:15I would appreciate an update on that um when you have a more specific timeline.
▶ 0:58:20We'll do.
▶ 0:58:22Thank you. Now let me move on to another question. I can't see my time here, Mr. Chairman. One minute. Oh, okay. Well, I don't have a lot of time, but uh so u I'll move to u Mr. Stoval if if we can do that. Uh the the VR&E benefit report highlights that like I said only three and a half% of veterans in the program pursue vocational or technical training and just about 0.4% participate in apprenticeships.
▶ 0:58:46Um what do you believe is driving such low participation in the career building pathway uh specifically on this one and what strategies can uh be implementing to increase awareness and enrollment in those programs? That is one of the um areas that I am looking into sir to determine um you know what is driving the high participation rates and in training programs and what I have tasked my staff with is looking at what are our top um four-year degree programs and
▶ 0:59:16how can we match those with apprenticeships and OJTs that currently exist that may be a better route to help our veterans enter employment more quickly.
▶ 0:59:25I I agree Mr. Chairman and thank you. I I would say that, you know, I think we at least in Arizona or in Tucson, we may need not as many more attorneys, but we need more on the trades. Uh we're missing that for sure. So, if we can No offense any of the attorneys in the room
▶ 0:59:40not me.
▶ 0:59:41Okay. No, I'm not looking at you. I'm looking past you. Okay. Good.
▶ 0:59:45Kennedy, maybe. I don't know. Uh the gentleman's time is expired. The chair now recognizes uh Mr. McGarvey from the great state of Kentucky.
▶ 0:59:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This hearing is pretty simple. We want to make sure that our veterans, our men and women who put on the uniform, can build a good life and a good career after they transition away from the military. Uh we know that there's some successful programs. The GI Bill has done a great job, but not all veterans need a 4-year degree. Uh in fact, there's a lot of programs out there that can help, but but the fact is veterans aren't using these non-deree options.
▶ 1:00:20Um we we got to build some pathways. And this is like I hate using government speak. Let's not talk about pathways. Veterans need jobs and we got to make sure that they have what they need to get jobs. So we have some things out there. Skillbridge, uh these are uh registered apprenticehips, union training programs, industry partnerships. We know how this can work.
▶ 1:00:43and our collective responsibility both on this committee and at the VA is to make sure that our veterans aren't burning through their benefits only to be left with nothing really to show for it at the end. So, we need accountability. We got to have some clarity. Uh we got to have some employer partnerships that deliver results for our veterans.
▶ 1:01:04And we got to make sure that our veterans who who've already shown the initiative to put on that uniform to go into the service can take the skills they have there and use them in the civilian world to get a good job and have a good life for their families. So I look at this statistic. I'm going to follow up on what Mr. Ciscomani said a minute ago. Fewer than 20% of their veterans right now use the GI Bill for nonderee options. Only 20%.
▶ 1:01:33Um, your testimony today has stated this may be due to a lack of wider awareness, not using government speak. Let's talk about this in a real way. What percentage of our veterans do you think should be using their GI bill for non-deree options? And what's the VA doing to make sure they know about these options and where they exist? Uh I'll ask Mr.
▶ 1:02:04Miss Stovall to uh respond in a second but uh first let me say I think there is an awareness uh problem uh both uh VA needs to be communicating with employers partnering with employers to overcome that apprehension behind you know entering into a formal arrangement where they will be submitting enrollments and other uh documentation to VA.
▶ 1:02:28Secondly, uh while we address this in PCPG, all of the pathways for education benefits, I think that uh we need to do a better job of other marketing around the idea of um what opportunities are available for all these different avenues. Um you know, we we are limited in some degree based on the statute. We deliver the benefit. Uh we don't advise. Uh and that's where Miss Stoval's team comes in. So I'll ask her to add just a little bit to that.
▶ 1:03:01So under VR the the way that the statute is written a veteran is able to identify a vocational goal and based on that vocational goal would receive the training whether that's a degree, diploma or certification um they receive the training that's recognized for entry into that field.
▶ 1:03:20And so, um, based on comprehensive assessments, um, the the VRC or vocational rehabilitation counselor would work with them to determine what the most appropriate goal would be to get them to suitable employment,
▶ 1:03:34but 20% right now are using the GI Bill for non-deree options. Do you think that number should be higher or lower?
▶ 1:03:45I would defer that to Mr. Smith.
▶ 1:03:47I I I don't have an opinion. I I don't know what the right number should be.
▶ 1:03:51Okay. Okay. Um, right now it says that VR employment outcomes are at 74% for program completers, but we've learned that counselor shortages and long wait times are are are part of this problem. So, right now V employment outcomes are at 74%. It needs to be higher, right? And we've heard about counselor shortages, long wait times. How are we fixing this problem to make sure that veterans don't have to wait months just to start?
▶ 1:04:20Thank you for the question. So, we are um looking at increasing um well, there's a couple things we're doing as far as our transformation efforts to make sure that we can render timely services. We have implemented a new um case assignment system.
▶ 1:04:36We have um actually I forgot to mention earlier, but we do have 91 FTE that we will be onboarding this month to help with um our vacant fill those vacancies and we're also continuing to use some of our help teams to assist with backlogs. We're we're out of time. I have one more thing. I I do want to point out, Mr. Chairman, graduation rates look okay, but only half of graduates land meaningful employment within 180 days. That's six months without a paycheck. So, we got to do better.
▶ 1:05:02Roger that. Gentleman yields back. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Um, part of this issue is back in the 1970s, for some reason, everybody thought uh that every single American needed to go to a a four-year college and they treated the rest of us that decided to join the military at 18 like we're less people. And that is not the case. Um, the trades are where it's at. And if you want to work with your hands, work with your hands because that's how America is built.
▶ 1:05:29America is not built because somebody has a degree in 13th century French poetry. it's because a dude went to one of these union shops and became a carpenter. So, let's just remember that and these numbers should be higher. Um the goal is employment. It's not a piece of paper on a wall. Let's always remember that. Um a lot of these things I think, you know, my colleagues are concerned about. I am too.
▶ 1:05:50And I think we need to look at making sure that our um TAP program addresses this more, that we educate our folks getting out of the military about the trades, show them that uh you know, you can make an exceptionally good living um by being a tradesman. I I went uh it was last year. I was driving by, you know, doing doors and stuff when I was running for office year and a half ago, I guess. And there was this dude there.
▶ 1:06:18He had this great house and this bitching boat and a truck and all this stuff. And I stopped. I asked him what he did for a living. He said he's a lineman. And his wife went to a tech school and she was an X-ray tech. So you can live a very very high quality life by working with your hands. And I just need to make sure that everybody understands that. Uh Mr. Smith do vets is not here today and we talked about that earlier. I think it's because the entrangence of the Senate. Um so we need to get those those people in here.
▶ 1:06:47Um, can you tell me any redundancies between you and DO vets, between the Department of Veterans Affairs and the the DO vets? I I don't believe there's any redundancy. We certainly partner with DO vets um uh and we leverage their um registration process for apprenticeships uh and we then accept them. We deem them as approved. Um the
▶ 1:07:15Mr. Smith, you guys have similar workforce programs, homeless programs, there are a lot of redundancies. Um, and we see these all the time. Uh, can you tell me like all these processing things that we have going on? It just seems like it's taking a long time. Do you guys use any type of innovative technologies to accelerate the process of registering? So, we've got a shortage of our counselors.
▶ 1:07:42What type of automatic processes are in place to help speed along all of these functions
▶ 1:07:51in education? Uh we are very interested in automation. Right now we are automating more than 50% of our claims uh to speed benefits to people.
▶ 1:08:01Mostly uh or benefits are actually delivered in less than 15 minutes. So you can apply for a certificate of eligibility and you know in a matter of minutes know that you're eligible to use your benefits for any number of
▶ 1:08:15But then it takes what? 81 days ma'am to get rolling. Is that right?
▶ 1:08:2181 days in reference to
▶ 1:08:24Didn't you say it takes 81 days to get these things done for VR? The wait time.
▶ 1:08:29The wait time. Correct.
▶ 1:08:30So if we can if it can be automated in 15 minutes, Mr. Smith, why does it take 81 days for completion? So that's on the education side uh to provide uh an entitlement determination for um the GI bill. Okay. Vocational rehabilitation has a different process uh requires some additional work on the front end.
▶ 1:08:51Well, so I used VR
▶ 1:08:54and I I don't understand. I mean, you sit down and you fill out this battery of questions and then you talk to somebody. I don't know why that takes 81 days. I mean I just I simply don't understand that.
▶ 1:09:08So we have with our new um case management system readiness and employment system or res we have been able to automate the eligibility process. Yeah.
▶ 1:09:18And so um with that that has reduced the the wait time for a veteran to be seen by a case manager for um an entitlement
▶ 1:09:28Yeah. We have lower we got a bill through the house that lowered the education requirement for these counselors. Used to have a master's degree for this, but I do not mean to disparage the folks that are doing this job, but it simply is not that complicated. And more automation, more better. So, we just have to get over this institutional inertia that is the VA and focus on the veterans. And I know that you guys are doing that pretty well.
▶ 1:09:53So, uh, with that, I yield back and we will, um, with that, I yield back and we'll, uh, be dismissing this panel. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it greatly. And we'll take a short break while we impanel the next group.
▶ 1:12:26That means that the microphone is live.
▶ 1:15:25second panel will committee will come to order. On our second panel, we're going to hear from the following witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Greg Ham, vice president of field and government recruiting at Warner Enterprises, testifying on behalf of the American Trucking Association. Our next witness is Gary La Barbara Jr. Where? There you are. Uh, business agent, Teamsters Local 282 and helmets to hard hats trade adviser testifying on behalf of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.
▶ 1:15:55I want to thank First Sergeant La Barbara for his service. He just retired. First shirt. Good job. Um, Seprifi. We just had our 250th uh birthday. Kind of a big deal. Hope you had a good time. Woke up with a headache probably. Our third witness is Mr. Jerome A. Grant, chief executive officer at Universal Technical Institute. And our fourth witness is from the great state of Wisconsin. Mr. Vang, it's wonderful to see you, human resources manager at OC Industries. I want to thank Mr.
▶ 1:16:23Vang for being here and representing my home state. It's great to see you, sir. Our final witness is Mr. Dave Bostik, service development manager, aftermarket and customer support for region 4, testifying on behalf of Deer and Company. I'd like uh all the witnesses to stand. Raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
▶ 1:16:48Very well. You may be seated. Let the record reflect that all witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Mr. Ham, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony.
▶ 1:17:00Thank you, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papus, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to testify on behalf of the American Trucking Associations and Warner Enterprises. My name is Greg Ham. I'm the vice president of field and government recruiting at Warner Enterprises. And as a proud US Army veteran, I understand both personally and professionally the challenges that come with transition into the CI civilian role.
▶ 1:17:24The Army transformed my life by giving me the discipline to do things the right way, even when no one is watching. the grit to push through when things get hard and the commitment to finish what I start and a sense of honor that comes from being part of something bigger than myself. These are the same qualities that I see in veterans embarking on civilian careers.
▶ 1:17:46It's why I'm devoted to helping find them opportunities in the trucking At Warner, we take pride in being one of the nation's largest and most dedicated employers of veterans and military families. Our average driver earns over $75,000 a year and many earn well into the six figures. Approximately 20% or one in five of our 13,000 associates are military connected and our goal is to reach 25% or one in four.
▶ 1:18:17Our team of veteran recruiters has walked the same path as the men and women that we serve. Veterans entering Warner can pursue careers ranging from professional drivers to technicians to safety roles, operations, logistics management. We extend educational support, tuition assistance, and military community resource groups to ensure that veterans and spouses have the tools they need to thrive.
▶ 1:18:43Warner's holistic approach to career development has produced countless success stories. One example is Sergeant Eric Msoto. who served over six years in the army as a mechanic. And despite his extensive experience maintaining complex equipment and leading soldiers, he struggled to translate his skills into the civilian career.
▶ 1:19:05By using his GI Bill benefits to enroll in Wernern's registered apprenticeship program, he earned a CDL, quickly advanced at our company, and today he serves as a road team captain and as a mentor. Eric frequently tells us that the structure and the community that he rediscovered at Warner restored his sense of purpose that he felt in the Eric's story underscores what is possible when policymakers and employers work hand in hand.
▶ 1:19:35The federal government can help more veterans like Eric, by increasing funding for the CMV operator safety training grant program, SIMvost, which will expand access to quality CDL programs.
▶ 1:19:49passing Chairman Van Orton's Warriors Warriors to Workforce Act to ease the housing burden on veterans undergoing job training, passing the Veterans Transition to Trucking Act to reduce the VA's red tape on apprenticeship programs, and passing the Transport Jobs Act to make it easier for veterans and their spouses to find jobs in the supply Each year, approximately 200,000 service members separate from the US armed forces.
▶ 1:20:18In trucking and in across the country, the benefit of hiring veterans are clear. The work ethic, leadership, adaptability, teamwork, high moral standard and character, and the ability to operate under pressure. Veterans bring the values that make the workplace and the supply chain stronger. Hiring them is not charity. This is smart business.
▶ 1:20:42Ranking member Papus and Chairman Van Orin demonstrated their commitment to expanding meaningful career pathways for those who have served by spearheading the passage of the Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act last year. And I'm confident that this subcommittee will build on that progress to empower veterans and their families and employers to broaden and broaden our economy in the months ahead.
▶ 1:21:06I appreciate the opportunity to join you here today and I hope to contribute constructively to your efforts to strengthen America's veteran workforce. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields. Mr. Ham, Mr. Vang, I I did not recognize your service, but you're in the Army, so I'm not supposed to. Uh, just throwing that out there. sorry. That was for you for sure. For I now recognize uh Mr. Laaf Jr.
▶ 1:21:36to deliver his opening statement.
▶ 1:21:39Thank you, Chairman Van Orton, Ranking Member Papus, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on these critical issues. My name is Gary Larara Jr., and I currently serve as a business agent for Teamsters Local 282 in New York City, as well as the Teamsters trade adviser to Helmets to Hard Hats, working to create employment opportunities for veterans working as Teamsters in the building construction trades.
▶ 1:22:01I retired from the Marine Corps reserves in 2023 as a company first sergeant company A125 following two deployments for OAF and one for OEF. My experience is also one of a successful transition from military service to civilian union employment. Following my first deployment, I obtained my commercial driver's license and began driving a truck while serving in reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my career as a teamster in local 282 driving trucks in the heavy construction industry in New York City.
▶ 1:22:31In total, the teamsters represent 1.3 million members, including tens of thousands of veterans currently serving reserveists and military spouses, and we appreciate the subcommittee's attention to this issue. We appreciate the committee's long-standing bipartisan efforts to improve the lives of veterans and to ensure that when they transition, they can access careers that allow them to take care of themselves and their families.
▶ 1:22:53It is my hope that from today's hearing that the takeaway I can leave you with is the role that the teamsters have and continue to play in securing employment for veterans like me, thousands of current members, and future transitioning veterans. As I mentioned, I am the team's representative to the helms to hardest program, which provides opportunities within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the unionized building trades and has connected nearly 55,000 veterans to good paying careers since 2003, 13,000 of which over the past 5 years.
▶ 1:23:23We're able to achieve this through many partnerships with trade unions, employers, Department of Labor, and many others. I have worked with countless veterans connecting them to locals, training centers, and employers, affording them opportunities to begin well-paid careers as teamsters in the construction industry. I have also had many discussions with our locals and training centers who are committed to aiding our nation's veterans and seek them out while looking to grow their workforce.
▶ 1:23:48I view this program to be a model of how labor can play an essential role in securing good jobs and careers for veterans. The Teamster's efforts in this area have been significant and wide-reaching. Over the years, our airline division membership realized that we were failing to transition military aircraft mechanics into civilian service. While we counted many veterans among the teams that represented pilots, we didn't see this among the nearly 10,000 aircraft mechanics we represent, largely at United Airlines.
▶ 1:24:15We led an effort to streamline the process in the FAA reauthorization bill, which the Federal Aviation Administration is currently working to complete. We thank committee chairman both for his leadership in securing that language. Trucking has long been a strong source of employment for veterans, but also an industry where opportunity presents itself to work with Congress.
▶ 1:24:34For example, we thank subcommittee chairman Van Orton, ranking member Papus, and other members of the committee for their leadership on the Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act, which was signed into law last year and cut unnecessary red tape for CDL training. Uniquely, Teamster Locals across the country also operate our own free or nocost CDL training programs, which frequently work with transitioning veterans. Our programs graduate highly skilled drivers with pathways to stable and well-paid employment.
▶ 1:25:03The Teamsters are very interested in expanding our programs and searching for ways to do so in conjunction with Congress. For example, through a large expansion of the Department of Transportation's commercial motor vehicle operator safety training, CMVOST competitive grant program. Last year, the program received less than $4 million in total by increasing the funding for this program substantially. Teamster Locals can secure these available funds to expand existing programs, increasing offerings, and open new programs where they currently do not exist.
▶ 1:25:32I should also note that the program is a perfect fit for today's discussion. The law already creates preference for programs which serve veterans, a requirement we strongly support. We are prioritized expansion of CMV in ongoing surface transportation reauthorization discussions and hope for your support as negotiations on that bill continue. Finally, we know that members of this subcommittee and the full committee have put forth numerous proposals on veteran employment and will continue to do so.
▶ 1:25:59The teamsters are fully committed to working with all members on this shared goal and it is our hope we can both work with you on advancing those priorities and that in shaping proposals, programs, and new initiatives that you consider the ability of the teamsters to be a partner in those efforts. We are proud to represent the greatest range of industries and occupations of any labor organization in this country and have a demonstrated track record of commitment to our nation's veterans. I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today and look forward to any questions you may have.
▶ 1:26:30Thank you for starting both your and uh Mr. Ham's record or excuse me, written testimony will be entered into the hearing record. The chair now recognizes Mr. Grant for 5 minutes.
▶ 1:26:42Chairman Van Norton, ranking members of Papus, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. It's an honor to speak with you about something that's core to our work and essential to our nation's future. creating strong, reliable, high wage career pathways for America's veterans. My name is Jerome Grant and I serve as CEO of Universal Technical Institute, which includes UTI and conquered career colleges.
▶ 1:27:05Across our 32 campuses, we focus entirely on hands-on career focused education in fields that keep this country running. Automotive, diesel technology, aviation, welding, electrical, and energy trades. And on the conquered side, nursing, uh, dental professions, respiratory therapy, surgical technology, and other critical health care fields. Last year, we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our population. They are central to our mission.
▶ 1:27:35They bring discipline, maturity, problem solving, and leadership that elevate every classroom they're in. At UTI and conquered, we've built a support system around them. dedicated admissions, financial aid counselors trained on VA benefits, military scholarships, salute to service tuition reductions, career coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies. Our measure of success is straightforward. Four out of five of UTI's graduates are employed in their field of study within a year. Our success is measured across the full employment cycle.
▶ 1:28:06We support graduates for life with placement assistance and continuing education that's complimentary because much like the military, they carry our name long after they leave ranks. And with new campuses opening, this impact will continue to grow. One of the most powerful examples of of what works is our partnership with the Department of Defense through Skillbridge. UTI operates three onbase programs at Fort Bliss, Fort Bragg, and Camp Pendleton.
▶ 1:28:34Out of the more than 3,500 skill bridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200 operate on bases. Our skilled bridge programs offer free on-base housing for service members, guardsmen, and revers reser coming from other installations. It also is open to dependent because [clears throat] we support the whole military family, not just the service member. [snorts] We're honored to be among them. We hope to see the base commands embrace these important transi uh transition opportunities for service members.
▶ 1:29:03These programs cost the service members nothing. Over just 12 to 16 weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel technician training that leads to civilian jobs with starting wages above $50,000. There's no gap between leaving the military and entering the workforce. It is immediate with life-changing impact, and we should be doing more of it.
▶ 1:29:25We also work closely with the USO and US Chamber of Commerce hiring our heroes program to deliver transition workshops, career preparation, and direct connections to employers in every industry we serve. Whether it's the skilled trades or healthcare, the message from employers is the same. We need more talent and veterans are an ideal fit for these skilled collared careers that value discipline, teamwork, and technical ability.
▶ 1:29:51We're proud to be recognized as a military-friendly school and veterans friendly institution. But what really matters is not the designation, its outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring veterans leave us with strong credentials and even stronger careers. As for the opportunity to create more visibility into high-paying jobs and skilled trades, I could not agree more with what Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, said just a couple weeks ago. The skill gap in the United States is no longer a distant warning. It's a present- day crisis.
▶ 1:30:21When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technical jobs sitting unfilled, it tells us one thing. Our country must dramatically expand the training pipeline for skilled technical careers that keep America moving, and veterans are often well suited for these skilled trade jobs. At Universal Technical Institute and Conquered Career Colleges, we're focused every day on solving this problem.
▶ 1:30:43Across our nationwide campuses, UTI trains students in automotive, diesel, EV, hybrid systems, welding, aviation maintenance, electrical, and energy technology. The very roles Ford and the entire transportation and mobility sectors urgently need. As part of UTI success is our industry-leading partnerships and manufacturers allow us to offer both industry and company specific training sought by our employers.
▶ 1:31:07We have manufacturer specific advanced training programs with Ford, General Motors, Delmer trucks, Cummins engines, and several other incredible manufacturers. The we are eager to expand these partnerships leading manufacturers to meet the the needs of the moment. That includes scaling EV and next generation propulsion training, creating more OEM aligned curriculum and growing career pathways, opening additional on-based programs, and working together to recruit more veterans, career changers, and young adults to these skilled college careers.
▶ 1:31:38America cannot remain competitive without a strong technical workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate, and partner.
▶ 1:31:45Gentleman's time has expired. Uh, sir, your written testimony will be entered into the record. The chair now recognizes Mr. Bostic for 5 minutes.
▶ 1:31:56Chairman Van Orton, ranking member Papus, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is David Bostik, and I'm here on behalf of John Deere to share information about an issue that affects thousands of transitioning service members every year, which is the successful reintegration into the civilian workforce. As you know, our nation's veterans bring unmatched skills and resilience to their communities.
▶ 1:32:22Yet, despite these strengths, many face significant challenges transitioning from military service. This issue hits me close to home. In 1997, fresh out of high school, I started work as a technician at a John Deere dealership in Lexington, Illinois. Except for the years spent in college and in the Marine Corps, I've spent my career supporting John Deere customers. first with a wrench in my hand and then in every single corporate role I've held John Deere for the past 18 years.
▶ 1:32:50John Deere manufactures equipment and technology that enables our customers to produce the food, fiber, fuel, and infrastructure that supports a growing global population. To accomplish this, we employ over 30,000 employees across 16 US states, including 250 employees in Chairman Van Norton's district. But we don't do this alone. John Deere equipment is sold and serviced by a network of independently owned dealers like United Aen Turf and James R.
▶ 1:33:19Rosen Cransen Sons in Congressman Papus' district. These are small businesses embedded in thousands of communities across the United States that employ an additional 50,000 people. Currently, these dealerships face a critical shortage of skilled workers, especially equipment technicians. John Deere has always been a staunch supporter of this country's military and its veterans over the past several year.
▶ 1:33:44And over the past several years, we've taken greater strides to a to advocate and support for veterans. In 2019, a team of fellow veterans and I launched John Deere's military hiring program. It was designed to help deal connect dealers with technicians to close the skilled trades gap. Our goal was simple. We were set out to follow three key principles. First, be simple to navigate for service members and dealerships.
▶ 1:34:13My team and I take on as much of the logistical and paperwork workload as possible. Second, add value to the service member and their potential employer. To do this, we provide free training to the candidates. This helps sets sets them up for success and it helps translate the skills that they've gained in the military into terms civilian employers can understand. And lastly, we stay focused on positive outcomes. Our goal isn't charity or good press. Our goal is the successful employment of our participants.
▶ 1:34:44Since 2019, our dealers have hired approximately 800 veterans, including hosting over 300 skillbridge interns, which has become a cornerstone of our military hiring program. Today, I urge the subcommittee to consider stronger partnerships between the government and employers to manage transition programs like Skillbridge. Employers are on the front lines of the workforce development.
▶ 1:35:07We understand the skills needed, the gaps, and the potential that veterans can bring to their By involving employers directly, we can ensure programs are relevant and responsive to a rapidly changing labor market. Here are three key First, formalize employer advisory councils to help shape transition programs like Skillbridge, ensuring alignment with industry needs.
▶ 1:35:32Second, expand incentives for small and midsize employers to hire veterans and participate in programs like Skillbridge. At John Deere, we're able to leverage our size and infrastructure to help our independent dealers navigate this process. Many small businesses would benefit from a similar model. Third, create a centralized employer portal to streamline veterans benefits, track outcomes, and share best practices across industries.
▶ 1:36:00Well-intentioned businesses often struggle to navigate the existing systems and connect with the right resources. In closing, I ask for your leadership to create a future where the government, veterans, and employers have a clear path to create positive economic opportunities. It's often said that the best recruiting tool the military has is a service member that becomes a successful and successful civilian. Thank you for your time and commitment to those who've worn the The gentleman yields.
▶ 1:36:31Uh Mr. Bostic, your written testimony will be entered into the the record and uh I'm going to throw a little simpify to you too. Kilo company. Is that right? Yes, sir. Kilo.
▶ 1:36:43Okay. Alanbar. Yes, sir. Alanbar.
▶ 1:36:47Garden garden spot, wasn't it? It was not at all. Yeah. [laughter] Um the chair now recognizes Mr. Vang for five minutes. But before I say this, Mr. Vang, I've been to your facility and it is remarkable. Um what you guys do there is life-changing for so many people. Uh it gets not just the veteran side. I'm talking about some of the other folks that are there. Uh they take tremendous pride in getting up and going to work. They're part of a community.
▶ 1:37:13They're supporting themselves and their family and I want to personally thank you for changing the lives of thousands of people. It is just remarkable. So with that sir, I yield to you for five Mr. Chairman, ranking members, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on strengthening the veteran workforce through non uh traditional career path in manufacturing. My name is Yang Vang.
▶ 1:37:37I'm here on behalf of ORC Industries, a non nonprofit manufacturer dedicated to creating meaningful employment opportunities especially for individual disabilities and for our veterans across the country. Manufacturer facing uh workforce shortage. National Association of Manufacturer estimates by 2030 up to 2.1 manufacturing positions um will need to be filled. It is a readiness problem.
▶ 1:38:04It is an economic opportunity problem and for our veterans in particular a missed chance to connect people who are ready to serve and work that truly matters. One of the most overlooked part of the sector is cut and sew manufacturing. It is a highly specialized trade but not unlike many fields. It does not require a four-year degree. It does require training, discipline, precision, and the ability to show up every day to do the to do the job right.
▶ 1:38:31When service member trans transitions out of the military, many of them are not looking for traditional office job. They want to work. The work that they want is hands-on. They're used to being part of a team. They're motivated by a mission and not a paycheck. They're exactly the conditions. These are the conditions, especially on a man manufacturing floor. A shared mission, clear standards, and a culture where everyone's role matters.
▶ 1:38:58Unfortunately, significant barriers keep many veterans from considering this path. First, there is a awareness problem. When service member go through transition counseling, manufacturing, especially cut and sew, is rarely presented as a high value long-term career. Many veterans simply don't know these job exists. We can change that.
▶ 1:39:20I urge Congress to to ensure that career transitions explicitly including pathway to manufacturing including trades like cut and so the department of labor register apprenticeship programs are powerful tools we need to use it we need to extend it provide additional training fundings incentive for veterans in these role these will increase the pipeline secondly there are constraint in the GI bill that can be news.
▶ 1:39:50Many veterans need short-term skill focused training programs, not two or four year in classroom. Right now, it could be difficult to fully utilize the GI bill. We need to condense training stackable credentials in trades like cut and sew manufacturing, expand eligibility and Third, the cost of training falls on entirely on the employer.
▶ 1:40:12For a not for-profit manufacturer like OC and many other small midsize businesses, the desire to hire and train veterans [music] is there, but mar the margins are tight. Every dollar invested in training has to be carefully weighted. Kronis can help by d-risking the investments. Targeted training grants, tax cut, tax credit, dedicated funding for veterans focused apprenticeship and work experience program.
▶ 1:40:40ORC's mission is to employ individual disability while strengthening America's manufacturing base including creating opportunity for veterans. Our cut and sew lines produce critical defense textile product. Veterans working on these product can see direct line between their work and the readiness of the next generation of service member. At OC we receive employees receive an on-site training regardless of their educational background. We do not require a four-year degree.
▶ 1:41:11We require willingness to learn to work as a team to meet with high quality standard. We promote from within. In closing, I want to emphasize three key points. First, cut and zone manufacturing skill trade more broadly offer scalable non-traditional career path for veterans that [music] do not require a 4-year degree but do offer dignity, purpose, and advancement.
▶ 1:41:40Secondly, better awareness of traditional programs, more Third, when we do this, we don't just help veterans, we strengthen America's manufacturing capability or national readiness. We close critical work gaps, support domestic production of defense textile and other strategic goods, and demonstrate that this country still value skill trades as a vital part of of our economy.
▶ 1:42:07Thank you for your time and for your commitment to expanding opportunity for those who serve.
▶ 1:42:12The gentleman yields. Thank you, Mr. Vang. Your written testimony will be entered into the record. And for anybody that's wondering, in fact, everyone from the state of Wisconsin has the same tie. I know, right? It's kind of cool. All right, we'll now proceed to questioning. The chair now recognizes ranking member Papus for five minutes.
▶ 1:42:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank our panelists for their testimony today. I think it's all um important for us to consider as we think about how we match up the skills and potential of our veterans uh who are being separated from service with the opportunities that are out there and the need in so many critical sectors of our economy. And I appreciate the work that you're all doing and how you're bringing together education and uh labor and the private sector uh to help solve this problem and uh to help make sure our veterans have everything they need to to thrive. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:43:00Bostik, if I can start with you, I want to thank you for what you've um put on the table here today and and talking a little bit more about your military hiring program that you stood up. Sounds like you did it in a way that uh provided uh the best opportunity for veterans to have access to it. And so I thank you for the feedback that you've provided in terms of how we can improve things uh with respect to veteran employment.
▶ 1:43:22Um you talked about employer advisory councils to you know better reflect the feedback from the private sector incentives for smaller employers to participate which uh absolutely um is something that Congress needs to focus on. It shouldn't just be big business uh that is able to um be able to navigate these programs and create opportunities for veterans because we know most of our employers fall into the small business category. But I I just want to see if I could get a little bit more detail from you on this central portal idea that you had.
▶ 1:43:50There are so many different programs out there um with overlapping points of contact and employment coordinators uh with uh responsibilities that overlap with each other. Can you talk about the value in having this in one place and uh whether you think Congress needs to give better guidance to various departments to consolidate and delineate responsibilities and ensure that agencies are working together uh with the end goal of opening more doors to veterans
▶ 1:44:17certainly and thank you for the question. Um, yes, absolutely. A centralized port hole, some single point of communication that streamlines exactly what benefits a veteran qualifies for or what benefits an employer would qualify for would be extremely helpful. It kind of mirrors how I run the program with our military hiring program. We're the single point of contact for the veterans and the service members that come to us as well as the dealers. We don't get too heavily involved within the specific benefits.
▶ 1:44:47I'm just the matchmaker uh between the veterans, service members, and the dealerships. But that that process of having somebody that knows there's one phone call they can make, there's one email address they can they can send an email off to or one website they can go to and get a single point of information is extremely helpful.
▶ 1:45:07Well, thanks very much for your feedback, Mr. Ham, if I can turn to you. Uh thanks as well for talking a little bit about the career development focus that your company has had and appreciate you relating um some of the feedback from the American Trucking Association and talking about some of the legislation that we've considered and uh hopefully will consider soon to cut red tape and help more veterans secure employment in the trucking industry. Um and I thank the ATA for supporting uh that legislation.
▶ 1:45:34Have uh has the ATA seen any impact on uh a bill that we already passed and was signed into law last year, the Veteran Improvement Commercial Drivers License Act? Um and do you have any recommendations on other steps Congress should be taking to pay close attention to this issue in terms of implementation?
▶ 1:45:51I thank the ranking member for his question. Uh we've already seen impact across uh especially agencies that have multiple locations across multiple states. the ability to have well the old inability to not be able to have uh students uh have access to their GI Bill benefits just because you were a another state location of a of a corporation or an entity that had it already approved in another state uh was burdensome on on the veterans trying to to use their benefits.
▶ 1:46:20So, we've already seen in the short just a year that it's been in effect, we've already seen progress in having um students have access to funding through the GI Bill benefits to get quality education uh at these quality training providers.
▶ 1:46:35Well, thanks for that feedback. That's important. Uh Mr. La Barbar, if I can talk to you a little bit about CDL as well. Um you mentioned in your written testimony about the bad actors uh that are out there. Can you talk a little bit more about the impact that this has on the lives of student veterans and what we should be paying attention to to make sure that there are some guard rails and that we're protecting ultimately uh veterans to be able to get access to the right programming um so that they can get the skills they need to have good paying jobs.
▶ 1:47:04Yes. Thank you. So, [clears throat] anywhere where where somebody can can gain a few dollars, I feel there are um people out there that will do that. And there's all these programs where they'll bring a veteran in, they'll spit them out with a license, and then you're on your own. That's not what we do uh as the teamsters and the programs that we work with is you come in with us, we train you, and then you go into a good career that has um sustaining for your family and medical benefits and to to be able to provide for your family for your whole life.
▶ 1:47:34Thanks very much. I yield back.
▶ 1:47:35The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes uh Mr. Ciscomani from
▶ 1:47:39Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [clears throat] Mr. Grant, welcome. Uh thanks for being here, sir. I um you know, with Universal Technical Institutees headquarters and major campus being in Arizona, you connect firsthand with with veterans that that are looking for technical and vocational training programs.
▶ 1:47:59We talked a little bit about in the the previous panel on the the demand and the interest from from veterans uh being way way way high higher on the on the four-year degree versus some of these vocational programs that quite frankly they they're in a higher need. I was kidding around in the last panel than than any any of the other maybe professions out there more on the technical side but yet we see a three and a half% or so of of the interest in that.
▶ 1:48:25that that's um that's a challenge that I think we need to take as a society overall to say how do we promote that more especially among our veterans that I think are are are eager to get in there. Most of the people that go to these programs graduate debtree and they start making a good living definitely more than what I was making with a bachelor's degree in political science right after college and with with student loan debt as well. So, um, what, so I'm trying to get a gauge here.
▶ 1:48:51What policy or administrative barriers impede veterans from enrolling in technical, uh, programs like this one? And how can Congress help expand access to highwage technical careers?
▶ 1:49:02Sure. What a what a great question and and it's come up a couple of different times in the in the conversations here, so I'm I'm I'm glad it's part of the conversation. First of all, the Vets opportunity act HR1458 starts to address some of the barriers that um currently stand in the way of people picking these sort of careers. I think the best way to think about it is from sort of a high level. You're coming out of the military and you want to access your GI bill.
▶ 1:49:27You can either go to a four-year school or you could go to a technical school, but not every technical school and not every program in every technical school and not every technical school that has hybrid or online programs. Which one sounds easier for you to make a
▶ 1:49:42Yeah. No, I agree. So, can you tell me why that is?
▶ 1:49:45Well, because it's the way the statutes are written. So the statues are written that that only certain uh technical
▶ 1:49:54certain ways and certain accredited institutions can go. So so but or you could go to every four-year school. And so when you're coming out and you want to take advantage of the GI bill because it's well-earned and you're going to be a great person out there in the world, there's just a lot of having to think it through that happens when you're thinking about tech. It almost feels like the system is guiding our veterans or anyone to go into that four-year degree route versus anything else.
▶ 1:50:19It's it's almost seems like discouraging to to that gets to there's really two issue that gets to the second issue which is there's there's a very long-standing cultural bias.
▶ 1:50:28To go to four-year schools
▶ 1:50:30and um we [clears throat] have 153 um career counselors on high school campuses. There are hundreds of high schools that will not allow our students, our our career counselors on their campuses because they don't want their kids to go to technical schools. Um, we need to continue to break that down and get more programs into the high schools, into the community colleges, and then clean up some of the language that makes it easier for them to make
▶ 1:50:53I'm all for that. I'm running out of time. I can't really see my time, but I feel that it's come 1:45. I'm sitting in that one angle that you can't see either clock here. It's not that my eyesight is that bad. I promise. But uh but I I want to continue this conversation with you. You know, my we had a a veteran actually a plumber that came over to our house and uh and when he was when he was leaving and we looking at the invoice, I told my wife, we're in the wrong business here.
▶ 1:51:17These, you know, this is a good paying job and for our veterans, we love that this is happening and we need to encourage more people to to get in there as well. So, I'll I'll switch real quick with the time that I have left uh on CDL. So, u Mr. Ham, if I can ask you this.
▶ 1:51:32my my dad who you know talk about the the stigma and all this my family as I think some of you know this immigrated from Mexico so when my parents were like what do you want your son to be some careers were not what they would have preferred but now looking back it's like you know it could have been uh you know for for many people that perspective changing my dad had a CDL he was a buzz driver most of the time that that we've been in this in this amazing nation so the trucking industry reports a high need for commercial drivers certified drivers and highlights that 12.9%
▶ 1:52:02of veterans already hold the CDL, right? So, I went to one of the training sites and they focus heavily in recruiting veterans as well. Can you talk a little bit about that? What can the VA do better here in in supporting and training these programs and the GI Bill with the VRN
▶ 1:52:18Uh, I I can't really speak specifically to the VR&E, but I can tell you that uh you know, interest in our in the supply chain, interest in in commercial driver's license is not just a you know, it's a security issue. It's a national security issue. This is an area that we have to spend money on. We have to focus on. I think you know we multiple people on the panel have talked about simos and the appropriate nature in which we fund.
▶ 1:52:43The uh gentleman's time has expired. The chart recognizes Mr. Mirs from Illinois.
▶ 1:52:47Thank you from the great state of Illinois. Thank you chairman. Uh and I want to thank all of you for being here with us today. really appreciate um the work that you do uh to ensure that our veterans are getting good paying living wage jobs so that they can retire with dignity. Look, the work that we do in this committee is incredibly important. And frankly, it's our responsibility to ensure that we're safeguarding and protecting the full benefits our veterans earn and deserve. And access to quality education is one of those promises we've made to veterans.
▶ 1:53:17And it's our job every single day to deliver for them. However, in recent years, student veterans have been targeted by bad actors. Uh, folks who are seeking to enrich themselves by exploiting veterans GI Bill benefits. I find that unacceptable. I've been talking about it since I got here to Congress three years ago. Veterans should be able to choose an educational program that meets their needs while being confident that their choice is going to result in highquality education that ultimately results in good paying jobs.
▶ 1:53:47when a student veteran is defrauded by bad faith actors is only the right to be able to have a recourse to restore their GI um bill benefits. And that's why almost three years ago I introduced the Student Veteran Benefits Restoration Act of 2025. The bill would ensure that veterans who've been victims of fraudulent practices by predatory institutions of higher education receive the educational benefits that they were entitled to so they can actually graduate and get the jobs that they deserve.
▶ 1:54:17We actually passed this bill out of the house with bipartisan support and with a lot of support from the chairman here last Congress. So, I want to make sure that I uh for the record uh note that I'm urging my colleagues to support the bill as a first step to protecting our veterans um from this fraudulent behavior. Now, I want to talk about 2017.
▶ 1:54:38Congress made a deliberate decision to exclude non-deree independent study programs from GI Bill eligibility due to the rampid fraud and exploitation in non-deree independent study programs. Now, Mr. Grant, I wanted to ask you a question.
▶ 1:54:54What do you think in your opinion has changed now to justify allowing non-deree independent study programs to use the GI Bill benefits when we know that they're still being exposed to the same risks that we saw back then? What has changed for you?
▶ 1:55:11Well, um thank you for the opportunity to to respond [clears throat] to that. Number one, uh I won't pretend to be the voice of an entire educational industry. I can I can speak very highly for universal technical incident and it and its outcomes. I also would like to follow up on one of your other questions around the number of employed veterans that are out in the market after six months because your your statistic is accurate which gets to the notion of quality of education.
▶ 1:55:37Um but it's not complete and and the reason is is that because the military benefits are 36 months many of our veterans 3,300 we educated last year go on and do another program. Mhm.
▶ 1:55:48And so once they graduate from one program, say it takes a year, they'll go on and do another six-month or ninemonth program, they don't get credit for going to school for that other program. Anyway, so um we pride ourselves on their outcomes and and the um uh high degree of integrity around the industry alignment and um we're very proud of what we put out on the market in terms of uh veteran graduates.
▶ 1:56:11That's great. So let me ask you, I'm really concerned about bad actors in veterans education. and I think you are as well and I know from the work that you do. I guess my question is like what are we doing to ensure that we're preventing these risks from continuing to happen and let me I have a little bit of time so I just need to get to a next question. Sure. Um so if I can I'll come back to you. Mr. Bostik, your company participated in the skill bridge which has employment rates above 90%.
▶ 1:56:38Meanwhile we're seeing the consequence of programs like Vette overpromising and undelivering. So Mr. Bastik, what should the VA in Congress be looking for to distinguish high quality training providers from those who offer training without real career opportunities at the end where they end up having to go to other programs and other programs?
▶ 1:56:58It's a fantastic question. Thank you. Um, I'll allude to uh what's been mentioned several times in this testimony already is to track outcomes. Uh, especially in the skilled trades where we have such a deficit across all industries from transportation, manufacturing, repair, um, all of those, there's there's really no reason why a training institution or a company wouldn't be able to put somebody through a training program and get them and get them employed.
▶ 1:57:25So for for me when looking at any program and especially how I look at our own program and and evaluate it its success is to look at you know how many veterans how many service members are we actually getting
▶ 1:57:39So let me ask one last question in these seven seconds. Do you believe restoring benefits to veterans who are defrauded would be beneficial for higher employment rates and veteran career
▶ 1:57:48I believe so it would. Yes. Thank you.
▶ 1:57:50Lady back. Sorry. The general general lady yields. The chair now recognizes Representative King Hines from the Northern Mariana Islands.
▶ 1:57:58Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, it's not too often where I sit in in front of folks who have shared their successful transition from military life to civilian life. And so, I want to start uh with you, Mr. Lara Barber. Thank you for your service. Congratulations on your retirement.
▶ 1:58:18you stated in your testimony that uh you know that journey has been successful for you and I just really want to hear more about it to better understand where the gaps are and how we can look at the system that we have in terms of policy to formulate some of these action plans.
▶ 1:58:40Sure. So for my experience, I came out and I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity um in my reserve status. I think that the big gap is is education um for the young service member that comes out. I know, you know, there's tap in the service. There's a lot of different things that are out there, but there's so much information that comes out and and from veterans that I talk to on a regular basis.
▶ 1:59:02What I see is they're just looking for opportunities on things to do and they're kind of, you know, uh I use the analogy of throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks sort of. So, I think just a little a little more education and and a little more one-on-one time with them maybe during that transition period on what is um a viable option for them. And one thing that I've heard a lot today from everybody here is, you know, a skilled trade is really, you know, it's not something that people should be looking down on. It is a great career path.
▶ 1:59:30Uh whether it be with the Teamsters or any other, in my opinion, organized um union uh trade, that's something that people should be striving for. So, did did you actively seek out the opportunities that you have now or was this something that uh was connected to you through some nonprofit that directly deals with the VA?
▶ 1:59:55No, I I was not through any nonprofit. It was a simple referral process. Somebody said, "Would you like to, you know, come work here and drive a truck?" I said, "Sure." Um and then after my second deployment when I had returned home I had the opportunity through referrals um to join local 282 and begin my excellent story.
▶ 2:00:13Okay. Thank you for that. My my next question is miss to Mr. Bostic or Mr. Vang. Um you both uh spoke about incentivizing companies and I wanted to kind of further flesh out what that would look like in terms of policy.
▶ 2:00:30So I believe that you know it's really just opening up you know the door for veterans here meaning that you know helping you know a lot of the cost we as the employer take on that burden especially with the training uh for us at OC you know I do have tuition reimbursement program for our employees uh you know but the goal here is getting them trained getting them in taking
▶ 2:01:01them through the process and it costs a lot of money from my time all of the management time to the training time to the employer's time to the lead person time. So, you know, having incentive out there to help employers um especially when our budget is tight. would be beneficial to open that door.
▶ 2:01:25What would that look like specifically? I mean, average, if you really look at it, you know, cost of training is between $3 to $5,000 per individual, an So, you know, being able to, you know, take on that burden with subsidies coming in would really, really help us expand that door for all of our
▶ 2:01:48Okay. I have about a minute left. Uh, Mr. Boston, can you chime in on some of those suggestions that you stated during your testimony, specifically this the the incentive part?
▶ 2:01:58Yes, ma'am. The the I'll I'll echo what uh what was said earlier with the biggest one of the biggest upfront costs is training. Uh remarkably very similar dollar figures on the equipment uh technician side. Um in addition to wages, the training is one of the largest upfront costs. we're able to to discount uh provide for free a lot of our internal training to service members.
▶ 2:02:23I know the dealerships that have hired our service members uh they provide a lot of training uh upfront as well. Uh several of our dealers uh will even sponsor even sponsored veterans to go on to an accredited community college an actual diesel tech program and don't require the service members to use their own GI Bill benefits to do so. All right, thank you for that. I yield my
▶ 2:02:48The general ad yields attorney now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great state of Kentucky.
▶ 2:02:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Mr. Law Barbara, I want to I wanted to start with you today. You warned about predatory CDL programs targeting veterans. What safeguards should Congress put in place to make sure that the GI Bill funds only um and supports highquality training providers?
▶ 2:03:12I'm not sure I have an exact recommendation of what safeguards can go in place, but I think really looking at them and if you look at, like I said before, something that leads into a career and not just a CDL program, I think, you know, focusing the the time and resources on that, I think would be
▶ 2:03:29No, thank you. And and Mr. Bosik, John Deere Skillbridge program has already shown how veterans can move straight into dealership careers when employers are directly involved. So, building on that success, what should VA do to formalize employer advisory councils and make it easier for small businesses to take part in Skillbridge?
▶ 2:03:48I don't have a good answer. It is it's it's a comp honestly, it's a complicated issue as far as getting the right people involved uh at the right time for the right purposes. And again, I do not have a ton of interaction with the vet with the VA benefits. As I said earlier, I would connect them with with dealers. It's just in my own personal experience at uh trade shows or career shows or events similar to this one.
▶ 2:04:14When you have employers together talking about the gaps that they need filled, best practices um and especially when they have the year of legislators in this in the same area, it it that's those sort of conversations foster a lot of a lot of change and a lot of growth. So, anything along those same sim similar lines would be beneficial.
▶ 2:04:35Thank you. And and I think you know what what you all are saying is what we want as well, right? Veterans don't just need programs. Veterans need jobs. And we got to make sure that programs, even if they're well-intentioned programs up here are actually leading to veterans getting jobs. We know that employer focused pathways uh work. We know that short-term education programs need accountability.
▶ 2:05:00We know that there needs to be transparency from the VA especially how they're implementing uh the Dole Act and Ruticil and so you know I want to make sure that the transparency is there the accountability is there and that when the rubber meets the road and our veterans who are motivated who are skilled are coming into civilian life that we're able to help with that transition from the military into getting a good job where they can take care of themselves and take care of their families just as they took care of us when they have the uniform Thank you so
▶ 2:05:30much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 2:05:32Gentleman yields and I recognize myself for 5 minutes. Um, what has come up repeatedly is the education industrial complex. And that's what that is. Um, it's essentially turned into a racket. Let's be honest. We got these kids going to school. They get out with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt and zero ability to be employed. And that's just wrong. And it's got to stop.
▶ 2:05:54And you know, I I don't I guess I could say I have a complicated relationship with higher education because, you know, we need to have these schools, but you got to remember someone did go to a 4-year institution and then maybe for a couple extra years and they got a masters in electrical engineering, but then they handed the plans to a dude that went to your training program who did the wiring. So there there's room for everybody here.
▶ 2:06:20We just got to understand that when we are out of foot soldiers, you can't win a war. And that's that's who you guys are representing. Uh just to be super clear, Mr. Bostik, you made a very profound statement. One of the best recruiting tools is a uh a highly employed and happy veteran because then you talk to your folks and I I appreciate that tremendously. I want to know your touch to the transition assistance program.
▶ 2:06:45When's the last time your people have been on a military base and speaking to folks that are active duty that are on their way out of the service?
▶ 2:06:53I make it a point to be to as many onbase career fairs as possible. Uh we're a corporate sponsor with several organizations like recruit military hiring our heroes and 50 strong and and participate them. And every time that I'm on a military base, I make it a point to go and talk to the transition assistance office to make sure that they're aware of our program and our and our benefits. Okay. We got to me and Chris got to make sure that you get there more often and that that door is open for you. Mr. Vang, have you guys ever been over to uh Fort McCoy or over to Vokefield to talk to the folks that are separating?
▶ 2:07:24Yes. Actually, I'm actually stationed right at Fort McCoy.
▶ 2:07:28So, I do work closely with the team there, but again, you know, especially in our manufacturing cut and sew, it's actually really really difficult. Um, it is a skill set.
▶ 2:07:38Okay. And so, it it's tough. If you guys don't know, they make our white hats, which is kind of cool. A Dixie cup. That's what you Marines call it. I know. Um, Mr. Grant, what's your what's your touch to uh CAP program?
▶ 2:07:52We have uh uh 26 employees who are former military that are on 26 bases around the country, giving career counseling uh seminars on a on a regular
▶ 2:08:02Okay, let's make that 50.
▶ 2:08:04All right.
▶ 2:08:04Okay. We got a lot of bases.
▶ 2:08:05I'd also like to say I didn't get the memo on the tie. I am from the great state of Wisconsin. Where are you from in Wisconsin?
▶ 2:08:10I was born in Milwaukee, raised in Rine, WM graduate.
▶ 2:08:14Oh, really? Okay. Well, let's uh get the memo out next time. [laughter]
▶ 2:08:20First, Art, what's your touch to the TAP
▶ 2:08:23So, our touch is through the helmets to hard hats program where there's regional managers that visit every [clears throat] site that's available to them, every base, uh, and anytime they're there. They, um, I think it's roughly 25,000, uh, veterans they touch on a regular basis. Okay. that contact uh helmets to hard hats seeking a
▶ 2:08:41Okay, Mr. Ham,
▶ 2:08:43thank you for the question. Yeah, we're on the we're on the basis every single week. We've got a team of people that travel the country every single week and are are attending the TAP program briefings and actively trying to recruit folks to come to our great industry.
▶ 2:08:56Okay. And we got some some of my fellows back there with those funny hats on. Um I got we got to make sure that you guys are connected to our VSOs also. Um it's critically important. So, we need the American Legion. We need the VFW. We need disabled vets. She's in the back corner hiding um from DVA. We got to make sure that you guys are connected. And as uh Mr. McGarvey said before he departed, it it's about jobs. Uh we have an issue with the skill bridge program.
▶ 2:09:23And uh we are trying to make sure I mean we've paid for this thing and uh we're kind of getting the Heisman once in a while from the active duty component. So, we're going to start working with those cats because if we're not filling those billets or if they're going to a certain pay grade, uh, which they are, um, you know, that's not okay. And so, we'll be working I I'm also on the House Armed Services Committee. So, we bring this up because we got to get those people into these programs that we have um because they're critically important.
▶ 2:09:53Um, with that, I'm going to yield back. I want to thank you all for coming to discuss uh veterans employment. It's critically important. As I just said, it's clear that this is an invaluable program uh for our veterans and something uh we need more guarantees for jobs for our veterans when they get out.
▶ 2:10:12Uh I hope to continue working with uh Chris, my friend, and the rest of the committee to improve the administration of these approved apprentichip programs and enhance them in private sector and nonprofit sector to continue to help future generations. And with that, I'd like to yield back to to u like to yield to Mr. Papis for any comments you may
▶ 2:10:28Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. appreciate the witnesses all attending today and for your testimony. I know it takes a lot out of your day to be able to travel here, but we benefit from having your voice in this conversation. We need to be able to track skill growth, income, and career building within the industry uh long-term to truly see if these employment programs that we've been talking about today are successful for veterans.
▶ 2:10:48I took notice that almost all the written testimony contained references to TAP uh getting employment wrong, especially during a transition out of the military or between duty statuses for our National Guard and reserve component service members put the veteran and their family at risk for negative outcome outcomes like housing insecurity, food insecurity, substance abuse, and suicidal ideiations. That's why we need to ensure that veterans are protected from scams and programs that waste their time. TAP wasn't the subject of this hearing, but it's a crucial piece of this discussion.
▶ 2:11:16And so I hope to see improvements on the program in the upcoming NDAA, including a TAP curriculum for spouses and families. I was disappointed to read in the American Legion statement that the Department of Defense recently declined to meet with them on TAP and I hope to continue rigorous oversight of that program with you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for everyone's contributions and I yield
▶ 2:11:34The gentleman yields. I ask unanimous consent that all members may have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous materials. Without objection, so ordered. This hearing is adjourned.