▶ 0:07:58The subcommittee on higher education workforce development will come to order. I note that a quorum is present. Without objections, the chair is authorized to call or recess at any [clears throat] In today's workforce, the hiring process is costly and extremely diff inefficient. This is especially the case with employers or search for workers with needed specialized skills. For workers, attempting to navigate the job market is now more complicated than ever.
▶ 0:08:24Translating skills gained through education, training, and life experience into terms that employers understand is daunting. In this present era of innovation, which now includes the power of AI, we need smarter ways to connect job seeker skills with employers needs. Our our economy is changing dramatically, and the way potential employees enter and engage with it must change, too. Education preparation and workforce placement innovation through the use of learning employment records is our future.
▶ 0:08:54With that, I'm going to start up a little video. Cut is one of the most important accomplishments of this Congress and possibly for generations. It puts money back in the pockets of hardworking Americans and remind us who we serve, families. [music] But we cannot stop there. We must build on that momentum with a new data paradigm. A partnership of education, industry, and community designed to ensure that every learner and worker has the opportunity to succeed.
▶ 0:09:22For students and lifelong learners, this changes everything. Coursework, certifications, apprenticeships, and real world experiences are all captured in secure digital records. Each skill and compassy is verified and portable. No one is [snorts] reduced to a line on a resume. Every accomplishment is seen, valued, and ready to open doors. For employers, it means clarity and confidence.
▶ 0:09:47Real-time labor market data reveals [music] where talent is growing, what wages are trending, and which skills are in demand. Career pathways come into focus, making it easier to recruit, train, and retain the people who drive our economy. Learning employment records, leers, are the bridge. They connect the learner's proven abilities with the real needs of the workforce. Private, secure, and portable, less are powered by technology.
▶ 0:10:16Think of it as a transport interstate, an interoperable [music] data highway where information from states, schools, industries, and even federal programs all flow together. The job market becomes more transparent, unlocking opportunities that were once out of reach. For decades, education and workforce data were fragmented and outdated. That was the old paradigm. The new data paradigm replaces it with a universally trusted public private system that connects learners, workers, and employers [music] in real time.
▶ 0:10:45Opportunity now flows faster, more fairly, and more securely. In Utah, programs like Admit Utah capture this spirit of innovation. Think of an L like a digital thumb drive you carry [music] in your pocket, except it's captured safely in the cloud. Instead of photos or files, it stores every class you've taken, every certification you've earned and every skill you've proven. [music] When you apply for a job, you can instantly share that complete verified record with the employer.
▶ 0:11:12No paperwork, no guesswork, just proof of what you can do, ready to plug directly into opportunity. Opportunity that will grow with the potential integration of AI, allowing customtailored services for individuals and realtime data for the labor market. The new data paradigm empowering every American to turn learning [clears throat] into earning.
▶ 0:11:36As we shift away from the college for all mentality toward a skills first approach, short-term credentials, work based learning, and apprenticeships are on the rise. Key legislations like the the enactment of the workforce pale grants in the Republicans's recent working families tax cuts will further uh further the growth of these alternative pathways with over 1 million unique credentials available. Pathways options are for for learners are can be very confusing less are helped here to help that uh to solve that problem.
▶ 0:12:06We give learners clear insight into the skills needed for the first job and what's needed to continue advancement in their careers. LERs will bring greater clarity to both sides of the labor market, helping workers identify opportunities and employers find the right talent. Le are the future and but we are not they but they're not enough on their own. When paired with transparent credential registry and skill-based job descriptions, they can power a talent marketplace where abilities not predes opportunity.
▶ 0:12:36As we modernize our connection of education work through verifiable credentials, we can build a labor market that works for everyone where workers have the agency. Employees have confidence and opportunities based on what you know and what you can do day one. With that, I'd like to yield to the ranking member.
▶ 0:12:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us today. Uh right now, many of my constituents are facing the reality that the economy is not working for them. Costs are rising, opportunities are disappearing. Since President Trump returned to office in January, job growth has slowed to a crawl, averaging just 70,000 per month, uh, compared to the 336,000 per month during the Biden administration.
▶ 0:13:22And to make matters worse, the the Trump administration continues to fire thousands of public servants without cause, putting them out of work and unable to provide for themselves and their families. As unemployment rises, many job seekers are are looking to advance their skills to open the door to a new kinds of of of work.
▶ 0:13:44Today's hearing will focus on learning and employment records or leers, which the Brookings Institute defines as a as a comprehensive digital record of interconnected data such as an employment uh such as employment, earnings, skills, and credentials.
▶ 0:14:01If leers would provide each person in the workforce with a portfolio containing digital verifiable records of their past work experience, accumulated skills, competencies, credentials, uh, college transcripts, and other relevant information that they could send to employers instead of a traditional resume. LERs have the potential to make our economy more efficient, more equitable, and more productive.
▶ 0:14:29Employers are becoming overwhelmed with job applications contra containing limited information about the candidates skills all of which can be hard to verify. Far too many employers have fallen into the habit of requiring college degrees for jobs that do not necessarily require them effectively uh uh shutting out talented and qualified individuals who have the skills but but not the diploma.
▶ 0:14:57But employers in our economy are losing out on the roughly twothirds of talented working age Americans who do not hold a 4-year degree. Requiring a college degree contributes to economic disparities, particularly for people who face systemic barriers to completing higher education, which were made by student loan caps included in in the big ugly bill.
▶ 0:15:24Some employers are increasingly evaluating job applicants based on experience and skills assessments rather than formal credentials or degrees. Many major companies such as Google, Apple, IBM have implemented skills-based hiring practices to bolster bolster their workforces.
▶ 0:15:45These examples show that when implemented well, learning and employment uh records have the potential to provide employers with with skilled workers and provide job seekers with the tools to land a good paying job to earn a living for themselves and their families. But while the potential is great is so are the ch so the so are the challenges.
▶ 0:16:10Uh first, our current job market lacks the level of technological infrastructure to support widespread adoption of these practices. And while efforts are underway in some states to digitize credentials and develop learning and employment records, these efforts are hampered by low awareness, lack of common data definitions and standards, lack of digital literacy and access, and data privacy concerns.
▶ 0:16:38Additionally, learning and employment records must be equitable and provide opportunities for all job seekers and employers. So, we must ensure that a shift to learning and employment record records does not enable an infringement on worker rights, on increased discrimination or or widen achievement and income gaps.
▶ 0:17:01To avoid this, we should make sure that learning and employment records are are wholly owned and and controlled by workers themselves so that they are the ones making key decisions about what kind of information is inputed into their leers, what information can be open to verification and what information can or cannot be shared without outside entities.
▶ 0:17:26These protections will give workers control over important data privacy elements such as demographic information and ensure that unethical employers can't upload false or denigrating information about an employee which could be done as a retalatory tactic.
▶ 0:17:44Additionally, for leers to be scaled up, we should make sure that the data definitions and protocols that allow leers to be dynamically linked with other databases and workforce actors are open sourced.
▶ 0:18:01While employers are are leading the way on informing the public about the utility of lee, we should not become too reliant on proprietary data systems where leers are incapable of communicating to the wider workforce system. I am encouraged by the bipartisan enthusiasm for leers today, Mr.
▶ 0:18:23chairman and I look forward to discussing how these new techn technologies can expand opportunities for all Americans and how we can best utilize them to connect skilled workers with promising careers. Mr. Chairman, I look forward to our discussion today. I thank you and I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:18:43Thank you. Thank you very much. Pursuant to community rules 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements in the record may do so by submitting them to committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p. p.m. 14 days after this hearing. And without objections, the hearing records will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other materials noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I'll now turn to the introduction of our four distinguished witnesses.
▶ 0:19:12Our first witness is Scott Prospher, president of Western Governor's University in the great state of Utah. Second witness is uh Mr. Greg Dinado Dinado, the vice president of business development and EBS EBSCO information services here in in Washington DC. Third witness is Mr. Scott Cheney, the chief executive officer for credential engine and here in Washington DC. And the fourth witness is Mr.
▶ 0:19:40Alice Kaplan, an adviser at the American Association of College Registers and Administrators, administration officers from Orange County, California. We thank the witnesses for being here today and look forward to your testimony pursuant to to community rules. I I would ask each of each of you to limit your oral presentation to a threeminut summary of your witness statement. As committee members have many questions for you, the clock will countdown from three minutes.
▶ 0:20:09However, pursuant to community rule 8D and community practice committee practice will not cut you off from your testimony until you reach your five minute mark. I also like to remind the witnesses of to be aware of the responsibility to provide accurate information to the subcommittee. I will first recognize Mr. Pulsifer for your
▶ 0:20:28Thank you, Chairman Owens and Ranking Member Adams. It's a pleasure to be here. Um, thank you members of the subcommittee. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to share my perspective on the value of learning and employment records. My name is Scott Pulsifer and I've nearly for 10 years served as the president of Western Governor's University.
▶ 0:20:47WGU is a private nonprofit institution founded in 1997 by a bipartisan group of 19 governors who saw the opportunity to leverage technology and competency based education to improve access, quality, and outcomes in higher education.
▶ 0:21:02[clears throat] Today, we graduate more than 60,000 students annually and have an alumni network of over 410,000 whose lives and careers reflect the promise of At WGU, we believe that education must be designed to benefit individuals first, first and foremost by connecting them with opportunity. After all, when individuals thrive, workforce strength, economic vitality, and innovation follow. That same belief guides our work on leers.
▶ 0:21:32While leers create value in many ways, their primary purpose is a tool for empowering individuals. As such, our LER at WGU is designed to give individuals greater control over their educational and career pathways. A comprehensive, verified record of skills earned across a lifetime, allows people to understand what they can do, where they can go, and what they need to learn next.
▶ 0:21:57It lets job seekers apply for roles with skills rich credentials, clearly communicate their strengths, and share proof of their capabilities down to an atomic level. As AI reshapes roles at an unprecedented speed, the need for real-time granular skill signaling mechanisms is greater than ever, less meet this need by allowing students to share verified skill data throughout their learning journey, not just at More than just a tool
▶ 0:22:27to connect with employers, WGU's LE platform is designed to be used as soon as students begin their educational journey, helping them to understand their current their current skill profile, discover career pathways, and follow a personalized road map toward their desired profession. [clears throat] In this way, leers unlock powerful pathfinding tools, allowing students to explore without drifting aimlessly and racking up student debt in the process.
▶ 0:22:56In short, LERs shift agency to the individual and enable career mobility based on proven ability, not pedigree. When readiness is signaled through verified skill, opportunity expands to include those who might otherwise have been overlooked, strengthening organizations and communities. Few things are more profoundly human than enabling individuals to pursue a self-determined life. Lee, while seemingly abstract, exist for that purpose.
▶ 0:23:25They translate what individuals know and can do into real opportunity. Our challenge today is not a deficit of talent, but a failure in how we identify, signal, and engage it. Skills rich leers contribute to changing that by making talent visible, portable, and actionable. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today and I look forward to your
▶ 0:23:48Thank you. I'll now recognize Mr. Donado for your testimony.
▶ 0:23:54Chairman Owens, Ranking Member Adams, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is Greg Donado, vice president of business development at EPCOed. Our mission is simple. To make all learning count by connecting talented Americans with opportunities and employers through the common denominator of skills.
▶ 0:24:16Today, I want to share what has been achieved with the Alabama Talent Triad, the nation's first fully operational statewide talent marketplace, as well as convey why this model matters for modernizing our education and workforce system nationally. Alabama launched the talent triad statewide in 2024 as a population level solution to support all students and job seekers, employers and industries and education training providers.
▶ 0:24:41In just 14 months, Alabama's implemented the infrastructure for a skills-based economy that connects the supply and demand sides of the labor market. More than 132,000 Alamians now have validated less. 19,000 credentials in the state have been translated into competencies and are made more made transparent through the Alabama credential registry. Over 300 employers have engaged and up to 10,000 jobs have been available at any given time.
▶ 0:25:08LS give every learner from 8th grade to career changers to veterans a verified portable record of their skills and credentials. The credential registry brings transparency and accountability, documenting and issuing the skills programs teach and the credentials that validate the mastery required by employers. Skills-based job descriptions help employers signal their needs more clearly and connect a more qualified talent pool. Together, these tools create signaling mechanisms and real-time feedback loops between the supply and demand sides of our economy.
▶ 0:25:39Students see which programs lead to good jobs. Employers see which programs meet industry needs. Policymakers see outcomes in real times. These insights lead to shifts in paradigm design, program design, hiring practices, and yield new and innovative approaches for Americans to transform, transcribe, and transact skills in an everchanging labor market. Scaling statewide and regional talent marketplaces supports the implementation of workforce PAL.
▶ 0:26:05Credential quality and transparency processes allow states to evaluate short-term credentials and associated programs for quality outcomes and alignment with employer demand. The same process ensures transparency and accountability of learning outcomes and education training programs can now be documented in terms of competencies that are matched to employers job descriptions.
▶ 0:26:27Talent marketplaces also address workforce shortages and help to increase the labor force participation rate by by assisting 43 million Americans with some college no degree veterans, disconnected youth, mid-career workers, and all Americans. Allow all Americans to prepare for technological change and increase their resilience in the face of everchanging labor market conditions. The bottom line, unified talent marketplaces and less work for all Americans, all career paths, and all industries.
▶ 0:26:56They create clearer pathways to good jobs and help employers find the talent they need. That's why EPCOed has released a free national le.me to jumpstart this innovative work across all states. Thank you for your time and your continued bipartisan leadership and strengthening America's workforce. EPCOED stands ready to support this work as we strive to ensure every American connect their learning to opportunity.
▶ 0:27:20Thank you so much. I now like to recognize Mr. Cheney for your testimony.
▶ 0:27:25Thank you, [clears throat] Chairman Owens, Ranking Member Adams, Chairman Wahberg, and Ranking Member Scott and members of the subcommittee. I'm pleased to join this distinguished panel today. Just yesterday, we released the latest counting credentials report in which we revealed that there are at least 1.85 million unique credentials available in the US alone. These include badges, certificates, certifications, licenses, degrees of all types and all levels.
▶ 0:27:55and they're offered by more than 134,000 different providers or entities including two and four-year institutions, licensing and industry certification bodies and private One of the significant findings in this report is that more and more credentials are being issued in digital formats. When credential and skill information exist digitally, they become searchable, verifiable, and interoperable, including through digital wallets and less.
▶ 0:28:26A paper certificate can hang on a wall. A digital certificate or credential can populate a job application, unlock a learning pathway, or be discovered by an employer searching for someone with specific skills. Two takeaways from this report. First, everybody needs help making sense of and navigating this very confusing landscape.
▶ 0:28:48And second, we're close to a point where we can both capture all learning through digital credentials and we can curate all credentials and skills a person has earned in digital records such as less. To make this possible, here are four areas that I believe require governmental action.
▶ 0:29:09First, ensure that the value of digital credentials, skills, and leers reach everybody across all education and income levels and in all communities. You can require that all relevant state and local plans under places like WEOA, Perkins 5, ESSA, and the comprehensive economic development plans include planning for supporting, funding, and procuring less as well as enforcing data privacy and security.
▶ 0:29:40Requiring that le planning occurs across education, workforce, and economic development will increase their adoption, use, and value. Second, require the use of open and interoperable data standards.
▶ 0:29:55Congress should require that information about all providers, programs, credentials, and skills across all federally funded and authorized programs be made publicly available through open and interoperable data for which the credential transparency description language is the deacto standard.
▶ 0:30:15Open data requirements must also extend across employment data as well so that leers can live up to their name by holding records of an individual's full learning and employment history. And in fact, no federal funding should be used on less that do not meet standards for open and interoperable data. Third, extend existing data privacy and security laws and protections to cover less as well.
▶ 0:30:43And fourth, the true value of an L comes from validated records of credential and skill attainment. But validating skills is still a major challenge. Congress should include in both legislation and appropriations targeted targeted support to improve the ability to validate skills attainment quickly, efficiently, accurately, and at scale. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you.
▶ 0:31:13Thank you and like to lastly recognize Mr. Kaplan for your testimony.
▶ 0:31:23Thank you chairman, ranking member and members of the subcommittee and thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Alex Kaplan. I'm an independent expert on learning and employer learning and records and an adviser to the American Association of Collegiate Registars and Admissions Officers on artificial intelligence and leers.
▶ 0:31:43Seven years ago while serving on the American Workforce Policy Advisory Board as part of the IBM team, I spoke at the White House about a vision for how a secure verifiable lifelong digital record of learning can help people connect with good jobs. Today, that vision, learning and employment records or leeers, is within reach. Why this matters is simple. Tens of millions of Americans have built skills through diverse life experiences. But those hard-earned skills remain visible to most employers.
▶ 0:32:12Skills earned through alternative routes are often overlooked, impeding job hunts and career prospects. As verified, portable, skills rich credentials, leers show what a person can actually do, regardless of where they learned it. For workers, this improves job and career options. For employers, leers expand talent pools to candidates they might otherwise overlook and speed up hiring, making it cheaper and more efficient.
▶ 0:32:40Artificial intelligence makes less even more urgent. AI is creating a crisis of trust in hiring. Neither employers nor job seekers trust each other's authenticity. At the same time, AI can enable precise skills matching if it has verified data to work with. And AI is accelerating skill obsolescence, making dynamic records of current capabilities more valuable than static degrees.
▶ 0:33:06Le provide the verified data in infrastructure AI systems need. The momentum behind LERs is real. States like Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, and California are building statewide leer ecosystems as workforce development infrastructure. Employers are beginning to adopt skills-based hiring with early success in using verified credentials to speed background checks. LS are no longer theoretical. They are here.
▶ 0:33:35LS are not without their challenges. Key amongst them are ensuring robust verification to prevent credential fraud fraud and engineering learner control of LER data into the national system. We are aware of these challenges and understand how to address them. Lastly, due to the hard work of many people and organizations, the technical foundation for a national le infrastructure has been established and is being tested in multiple states.
▶ 0:34:03As federal leadership is essential to scaling a national le infrastructure, I offer some suggestions on how to proceed. First, lead by example in the use of less for federal hiring. Second, convene organizations who have led LER development over the past seven years to advise on the path forward. Third, invest in a decentralized and interoperable national infrastructure.
▶ 0:34:28Fourth, enable adoption by removing barriers to the use and issuance of alers. Fifth, encourage private sector entrepreneurship, innovation, and participation in the L journey. With your leadership, we can ensure that every American skills, however, and wherever earned, are visible, verified, and valued. Thank
▶ 0:34:51Thank you. Under community rule nine, we will now question witnesses under the five-minute rule. I will recognize myself for five minutes. Uh Mr. Pifer Pulifer, uh WGU has been at the forefront of of less and I want to thank you by the way for your participation at the very first Trump term to kind of get this this process started. Um can you tell us more about why WGU felt the need to lead and and on this?
▶ 0:35:17Yeah, thank you chairman for that question. Um I think it's pretty simple. uh that WG believes that education has to be a pathway to opportunity. And so one of the core elements of that is ensuring that the individuals that have now acquired a credential and all the competencies and skills associated with that can appropriately communicate that into the world of work because one of the key challenges is that every individual through that education wants to ensure that they're ready with the knowledge, skill, and ability necessary for the job.
▶ 0:35:46in providing now individuals, the graduates and students at WGU with that digital transcript that has the verified skills in it. The employers now or the workforce now in fact have a very clear articulation of what our graduates are ready to do. So it better aligns with the skills, the tasks, activities that exist in roles and so that those employers can actually ensure that our graduates are skilled and and credible.
▶ 0:36:09The other key thing is is that it does increase the ability for those individuals to personally navigate the career options that they have in a geoloccated way. Meaning that specifically with our achievement wallet, RLE, it now surfaces to them the roles at which employers in their specific location that they already have the skills that would ready for them for those jobs and it even automates the way and mechanisms by which they can apply for those jobs and surface their transcripts these less to those
▶ 0:36:38Okay. Thank you so much, Mr. Donado. Uh, what are the more important lessons learned from the early pilots pilots that we should understand?
▶ 0:36:47Um, thank you for the question. I would say there's several lessons that that we've learned um through this implementation in Alabama um as well as some other pilots that we've been a part of. Number one, messaging. Um, talent marketplaces can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
▶ 0:37:04So, we need to really make sure that we have very specific messaging, clear messaging, um, easy to understand messaging for each of the user personas, whether it's students, whether it's veterans, um, education training providers, employers, etc. about what this means to them and how this is supportive. Um, two, partnerships are extremely important. Um, there's a lot of really good work happening at each level, um, but in siloed work.
▶ 0:37:30And so we need to make sure that talent marketplaces and ls are an amplification of what's happening as opposed to it being a a threatening existence to them. So partnerships are extremely important all the way across the board. Without them obviously this work does not exist. Um legislation and funding there's uh time is of essence to a lot of folks.
▶ 0:37:54uh the folks who are invested in this whether it's the employers whether it's education training providers whether it's students whether it's job seekers need to know that this is going to be a persistent opportunity for them to invest their time that that's needed. So funding legislation the signals that they know that this opportunity will last for the long haul is is important. Um, it's an evolving conversation.
▶ 0:38:20So, we need to make sure that the technologies we're utilizing, what we're investing in also, we're evolving and consistently moving at at a rapid speed and have those capabilities. And then lastly, we need big data. We need a lot of information to make this work. Uh, we need a lot of information to make sure we're understanding the cross- sectoral partnerships and opportunities that are out there. Um, I would say those are all key um lessons that we've learned throughout this process. Thank [clears throat] Thank you. Uh Mr.
▶ 0:38:48Kaplan, uh you and other witnesses have highlighted that less are a tool that fits within the broader framework of a talent marketplace. Uh how could this be how could this kind of tool facilitate better coordination across different systems that we may may not be
▶ 0:39:07Thank you for that question. The thing about learning and employment records is that they represent a common set of data and a common set of protocols around the skills and competency that individuals have accumulated over the course of their lifetime.
▶ 0:39:21If we can settle on this common set of standards, which we're well on our way to doing, we'll be able to uh enable people to transfer those that information about themselves to employers to academic institutions and for those employers and institutions and others to see that that verifiable data is accurate and correct enabling them to do things like offer a job to somebody, admit them to their university.
▶ 0:39:47So there are a lot of opportunities here where by bringing less to the forefront and establishing them as a common set of data, we'll be able to use them in order to support and make easier uh uh the uh navigation of the talent marketplace.
▶ 0:40:04Thank you. I now recognize ranking member uh for purpose of question of
▶ 0:40:08Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:40:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you gentlemen for being here. Uh from 2021 to 2025, Credentialed Engine partnered with with eight community colleges in North Carolina as part of their aligning the workforce education system for manufacturing. Uh this is a project which was funded by the department of labor uh through a strengthening community colleges training grant. Mr.
▶ 0:40:35Cheney uh could you tell me more about credentialed engines's work on on this project particularly related to competency based digital uh bad uh badging and given the success of the project what role can wea funded programs play in standardizing credentials?
▶ 0:40:55Yes thank you for that question. Uh so yeah foresight was a a pretty tremendous leader in this project. They convened a number of regional community colleges uh so that they could collectively work on a manufacturing initiative along with uh a dozen or more manufacturing companies. And what they recognized was that this was a regional initiative that there were many players in it. It wasn't just foresight.
▶ 0:41:21And so what we were doing there is um putting all of the information you've heard the conversation this morning about open data and interoperable data. So we were working with foresight and the other community colleges to make available information about the credentials that they offer, the programs, the competencies and skills into this open interoperable data format.
▶ 0:41:42So they could be used both in translating what students had earned and what they knew to the employers that were in the manufacturing sector in that region. And they could use it also to move between the colleges um and and not be locked into just one uh program, but they could get the training and skills they needed more easily across the different
▶ 0:42:03Okay. Thank you, sir. In your testimony, you you mentioned that that worker protection should be included with any effort to increase the use of of le specifically um employer surveillance, retaliation, retaliation as a concern. uh for example, an employee could refuse employer could refuse to validate a worker's credentials as a form of retaliation.
▶ 0:42:26And so as as these LEAs become more common, what guard rails can the federal government implement uh to prevent employers from using them as a mechanism to retaliate against workers?
▶ 0:42:38So I would say the the most important thing is to ensure that the uh information about what an individual has earned is actually in their control. Uh so it's quite likely that uh an employer or an employee will earn credentials both through the employer but also outside. Um so where regardless of where they earn it that information should be securely uh included in an LER so that employer or that employee has control over it.
▶ 0:43:06Okay. So uh
▶ 0:43:08no that's fine. So, so in in your testimony, uh you state that the data rights and privacy must be foundational in an implementation of less and that workers should own and completely control their less including the data and the information that make up make up the le and what can and cannot be shared with employers. So, can you elaborate on the risks of scaling up the use of less without ensuring that workers retain ownership or control?
▶ 0:43:37I would say that the the risks are the same if we're talking about uh just education data or any personally identifiable information. Uh less are just another example of where we're helping to make information about what someone has earned accessible for their control. So uh as I pointed out in my testimony, I think one of the things we need to do is to just extend the existing privacy and data security laws we have on the books so that they cover less as well.
▶ 0:44:05Okay. Now, according to recent surveys, many employers say they struggle to evaluate the return on investments for training programs. So, could less make uh help measure training effectiveness and workforce readiness more accurately?
▶ 0:44:22So, there's a number of of issues that are at play there. They can certainly help because we'll have in one place uh more secure and more accurate record of what an individual has earned and where they've earned it. Um, right now we try and and come up with impact information about short-term credentials, which is very, very difficult.
▶ 0:44:42We're making some good progress on that of of being able to get better outcome data for short-term credentials, but having it all in a secure record would make it easier to evaluate what an individual has earned and and how effective it's
▶ 0:44:54Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield back my 13 seconds.
▶ 0:44:58Thank you so much. I'll now like to um recognize the chairman of the full committee, my friend from Michigan, Chairman Wahberg.
▶ 0:45:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you as well for that amazing video. Second time I've seen that, but I, as I've told you, I still refuse to believe that you're the graphic artist till I see the Super Bowl ring on that hand. Okay, Mr. Pulifer, good to see you again. um who are the key uh stakeholders in the education space that are the most important partners uh when it comes to scaling less?
▶ 0:45:32Yeah, thank you for that question chairman. Um I think you have to start with institutions uh themselves. mean educational institutions. They are key stakeholders because effectively they're the ones who in fact are verifying or validating the skills and competencies that individuals are acquiring including the credentials that they're awarded as a result of that. If they are not moving towards more of a digital uh transcript of those skills and competencies then in fact the talent economy or that talent marketplace fails.
▶ 0:46:01You certainly see the employers as key stakeholders as well. They have to be able to ingest this machine readable digital transcript of those skills rather than calling into an institution to validate that they actually graduated from that have the degree etc.
▶ 0:46:15But you also have technology companies and the uh those providers of that data set whether it's applicant tracking system his meaning human resource information systems etc. They are also key stakeholders but all of those are there ultimately to support the individual as the primary stakeholder. the individual ultimately has to see the value in its signaling being a better signal of the capabilities that they have that are relevant to the jobs that they're
▶ 0:46:41And that certainly is key with all of education, isn't it?
▶ 0:46:43It is.
▶ 0:46:44Yeah, that individual. Thank you. Uh Mr. Donito Donado um how do less uh and the system they're part of actually use AI uh to create the matches between programs credentials and job descriptions uh that you've described?
▶ 0:47:05Thank you sir for the question. Um we make sure that the AI is trained on validated data, verifiable data and good data. Um the AI today is there's a chance that AI ultimately is utilizing inappropscured and ineffective.
▶ 0:47:28Uh we're making sure that the validated data that you're getting from student records from employers from the education training providers is is is what's training the AI. So the AI AI works for us instead of us working for the AI.
▶ 0:47:42Have that human moral factual thumbrint,
▶ 0:47:46Yes, we have a human in a loop to make sure that it is working appropriately.
▶ 0:47:50Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Kaplan, um we've heard about some of the le pilots uh that have been adopted around the country. Could you speak uh about the importance of interoperability as tools like less are developed? Yes, thank you for the question. So, interoperability is essential to the functioning of a national learning and employment record infrastructure.
▶ 0:48:15The reason for that is because people move uh they move around, they go from state to state uh and they look for jobs all over the country. So, we need to enable a credential that's issued in Alabama to be accepted by an academic institution or an employer in California.
▶ 0:48:33absent interoperability, we're going to see the rise of I'll call walled gardens of data uh that really impede the ability of individuals to use that data and to make that data essential to their job hunts and their career explorations.
▶ 0:48:49Thank you. I appreciate the the answers and uh I yield back one minute and 12
▶ 0:48:55Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate it. I'd like to now recognize my friend from Georgia, Miss McBTH. Thank you, chairman, and thank [clears throat] you uh gentlemen for being here this morning. Really appreciate you, and I'm so glad this is such a bipartisan issue for our committee. We're excited about that. Mr. Pul uh Pulsifer, good to see you again. And Mr.
▶ 0:49:14Cheney, uh I know that you are both fully committed to ensuring that every American is able to easily navigate and understand the continuously expanding universe of degrees, credentials, and competencies. I deeply appreciate your input as well as the other witnesses uh for joining us for today's discussion on learning and employment records or as we're calling them leers. The American people are angry. Uh and that anger is truly justified.
▶ 0:49:44One of the reasons there's so much anger and so much frustration is that it has become too expensive, too confusing, and too slow for everyday people to obtain the skills and to prove that they have knowledge necessary to get a good job and provide a decent life for themselves and for their families. There are millions of Americans who have done everything right. They've done everything right and they have next to nothing to show for it.
▶ 0:50:11Despite going to school, paying for a badge or credential of some kind, or learning directly on the job, so many Americans find themselves no closer to the financial freedom and independence that they put all of their hardearned efforts towards to begin with. With that comes feelings of shame and feelings of resentment towards not only yourself, but the system that you put your faith in that really didn't do anything at all to help you move closer to a decent life.
▶ 0:50:42While not all have equal value, and some are certainly better than others, a degree remains the shest path to economic success. However, it's not the only way to get there. Congress must do more to ensure that workers can effectively show that they have the legitimate skills and credentials needed to do the work.
▶ 0:51:04The reality is not everyone can afford to put their entire life on hold, take out a loan, and go back to school for years at a time to land a decent job or make a change in their career. That just isn't how life works for most people.
▶ 0:51:20There's no reason why our workforce and education s system should be so overly dependent upon young adults making incredibly expensive, long-term and difficult to reverse decisions when job markets really don't work like that at all. The economy is always changing and we must set our workers up to adapt so that they can keep up. Workers and employers, they need an education and workforce system that is easy to navigate.
▶ 0:51:50allows for quick adjustments and meets them exactly where they are. Just as employers need to know which skills, credentials, and training programs are worthwhile and truly are passing along the knowledge necessary for their students to do these jobs and safely and effectively do them. But students and workers need to know exactly where to go and how much it is going to cost them to get the skills necessary to provide a decent life for themselves.
▶ 0:52:19For learning and employment records to become a common practice, it would require the establishment and maintenance of standardized credential registries or databases so that workers and employers can validate the information that's provided against an approved database of credentials and information. It's so important that workers, employers, and education providers understand what credentials are available so that they are better informed of what degrees, skills, and competencies are out there and which ones are really worthwhile.
▶ 0:52:50My bill uh creates act, which I introduced last Congress with Representative Hayes, would authorize funding for grants to states to help them create these databases. Mr. Cheney, can you please talk about how this bill, since we just talked about it briefly in the back, how this bill would help scale up state efforts in developing credential repositories as well as learning and employment records?
▶ 0:53:18Yes, thank you for the question. So the bill was drafted uh with a number of organizations to ensure that states would have the resources to develop these registries and to use the open interoperable data standards. All of which are necessary backbone for for the le infrastructure so that you can have um less issued to people and they can draw information about the credential information from a secure repository of validated data about those credentials and skills.
▶ 0:53:49Uh we've seen this work being done in several states, but we need to get there quickly and get there at scale so that we can have a national system available. Well,
▶ 0:53:57thank you so much. My sister state sister state Alabama has done so, but I look forward to finding a Republican especially on this committee to get this bill introduced in a bipartisan way this Congress and I hope that we can also get the bipartisan reauthorization of WEOA signed into law by President Trump as well. And I yield.
▶ 0:54:15Thank you so much. like now to recognize my friend from Guam, Miss Milan.
▶ 0:54:20Chairman Owens and ranking member Adams. Uh thank you for hosting this important learning hearing about learning and employment records, less. Uh these digital records are essentially digital resumes allowing employers to quickly verify skills and records for workers to be matched with jobs that fit their skills.
▶ 0:54:43And this type of digital innovation, it can help fill in roles in places where staffing is a problem and make career pathways more accessible and streamline hiring process. It's pretty terrific, I think. Um, however, I I hope it's we can get it as well. So, let's let's talk about um Mr. Kaplan about Guam and the other US territories.
▶ 0:55:07Now we often lag behind in digitalization and I would like to focus today on how we can expand LER usage for employers and workers in the territories in the US territories and other remote areas to take advantage of their benefits for workforce connection and in understaffed sectors. So Mr. C Kaplan are there any technological prerequisites for employers to adopt learning and employment records?
▶ 0:55:38Thank you. Um the technological preconditions for employers to adopt learning and employment records are really the ability to pursu uh to consume these digital objects which learning and employment records are. Fortunately, almost every employer in the world today can do that.
▶ 0:55:54So, one of the things that we've been working on uh with a with a great deal of focus and I give credit to my colleagues at the US Chamber of Commerce on on some of this work is really understanding how employers will uh consume those records coming into their applicant tracking systems as well as into their human resources information systems. So, I think we're on a good path to it.
▶ 0:56:16uh and as long as we can get align with the standard way that uh that employers are uh looking at job candidates and I think we can make progress there. From a student's perspective or a learner's perspective, it's similar to what my colleagues have said here. Uh any academic institution should be able to uh take the uh skills that students have learned uh through the coursework uh and turn them into a digital object.
▶ 0:56:42Now one of the things that um we are doing at ACRO is to make it basically no cost low cost for any institution in the country including in the territories to be able to provide us with whatever information they have uh about a student. It could be a PDF transcript and we'll be able to take that and turn it into the digital object that's going to be required. Finally, I would also say since uh you you talk about the territories, the movement towards these kind of records is a global movement.
▶ 0:57:11This is not only happening in the United States, but it's basically happening all around the world. So, I think we're all on the right path here, and I think it's pretty straightforward to provide the support that you're looking for.
▶ 0:57:21I like your answer. Um, so do you think there's something Congress can do in addition to help the territories uh see through this for the less, for the employers?
▶ 0:57:33Yeah, very much. I think there's a lot that Congress can do. So I think some of the keys to this are making sure that uh the territories have employment information that they have modernized employment information that they can provide uh that their institutions and employers have the capability to consume those uh and that you as a employer in the territories that you lead by example not only in using less for your own hiring practices but also being able to accept learning and employment records to meet
▶ 0:58:03regulatory requirements that you might have on the employer side of it. I think it's really critical to work with the employers in order to understand uh the deep skills that are there and I think Congress can really assist by that by helping us move towards standardization of the protocols uh that are going to be required for this to be effective on a national basis.
▶ 0:58:25I mean, we're in the very early days of this and I can't overemphasize the importance of writing it as standard uh a set of standards and protocols that allow for the interoperability to occur. This will reduce the cost for everybody uh and it will accelerate the adoption of them. So, Congress can uh really assist us in that.
▶ 0:58:45Uh and then the final thing I would say is you know support the territories uh with assistance uh to build the kind of uh state central systems that we're seeing rise in California and Alabama, Tennessee and others that will facilitate the creation of uh an LE network within your
▶ 0:59:03Thank you so much. M Mr. Cheney, if you can add on, we got about 15 seconds. Anything you'd like to say for the
▶ 0:59:10I I think uh Mr. Kaplan has it generally right. Um, and it goes back to my comment that we really need to make sure that this isn't being set out as a solution for those that can afford it, for those that are in wealthy districts or wealthy states. We have to have a laser focus on ensuring that the value of less reach everybody.
▶ 0:59:31And we can start that by making sure that um information is being delivered for your K12 diplomas and earnings, but all the way through so that you're building that record from start to finish. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
▶ 0:59:44Thank you. I'd like now to to recognize my my friend from Arizona, Miss Graava.
▶ 0:59:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I know it's a big sacrifice on your time, and we appreciate it. It's very exciting opportunity for this subcommittee to move forward something on a bipartisan basis that will really help critical make that critical connection between those seeking jobs and those looking for qualified employees.
▶ 1:00:12Um I do reject the idea that we're shifting away from higher education and for all many people are exposed to opportunities and career paths when through school through internships through those first jobs that I think are really exciting. And so my question would be for Mr. Cheney. Um you state in your testimony that Congress must proactively address the digital divide through digital literacy and access.
▶ 1:00:38If we were to scale up the use of leers, I'm concerned that if leers were to be commonplace tomorrow, there would be many individuals who already have certain barriers to employment, such as older workers, persons with disability, or individuals that don't have access to the internet for a v variety of reasons. Some people live in a digital divide area. Um, those people wouldn't be able to keep up with the digital skills needed to maintain an LER.
▶ 1:01:05So can you elaborate on the challenges leers could create for digital literacy and how we might address those challenges?
▶ 1:01:14I am certainly not an expert on the the issues of ensuring that we have digital access across the entire country and and the territories. Um but I would simply say that uh this is another core example of where that digital divide is hurting us. It's hurting people. It's hurting employers. It's hurting our national economy um and our competitiveness.
▶ 1:01:35And so this is another uh instance where I think we need to have a real focus of attention and resources to make sure that we're extending digital access and and making sure that it is uh fully available, not just randomly available and you have to drive to, you know, a Starbucks to get access, but you can get it anytime, anywhere. So this is another example of why we need to address that
▶ 1:01:58Yeah. Thank you. Do any of the other witnesses have anything they wanted to
▶ 1:02:02Uh thank you for that opportunity. I would just suggest that uh the le itself is uh as simple as is as simple and intuitive as mobile applications and given that 95 plus percent of our you know Americans and households actually have access to a mobile device a smartphone they have access to the le I think the digital divide is a challenge with respect to access to the educational and skill development pathways they need because so much of that cannot be done on a mobile device the le itself is highly portable and highly accessible because of
▶ 1:02:32its mobile nature Okay, great. Thank you. And then I wanted to ask about skills-based hiring, which is an underlying approach concept to the lee. It seems to me that skills-based hiring has some potential to increase equitable opportunities for those who lack a four-year degree because it would allow someone who has the skills needed for a job but lacks the former formal credentiing to apply because of the unnecessary requirements of a college diploma.
▶ 1:02:58Could you share with us additional ways with skill-based hiring could further improve job prospects of those that lack a college degree? And I'll start with Mr. Cheney.
▶ 1:03:08Yeah, I'll be brief because I know that my my colleagues have input on this as well. Uh so I I think for me, even if you have a college degree, you're earning and learning things throughout your entire career. And being able to remember everything that you were awarded when you were 20 and you're trying to get rehired at 50 is difficult.
▶ 1:03:26So having an LER is that way of having that entire record of your education and employment that you can digitally share without having to try and remember it, make it up and you know convince an employer that you actually did earn it.
▶ 1:03:40Thank you.
▶ 1:03:45So skills-based hiring is is certainly an opportunity for all the things that that have been mentioned and all the opportunities and benefits that have been discussed. Um, one of the things that I think the full talent marketplace and the L will do for skills-based hiring is it better grounds and put context into the skills. If we understand the credentials, we understand the context in which you achieve those skills or validated them.
▶ 1:04:08Um, employers have a hard time based on all of our work and things that we've taught to un just having a removal of degree because you're not truly grounding the skills in which they were earned and learned. And that's really an important part of I think this full conversation that we're having not just about less but really understanding how skills were were achieved by each individual at any level of education.
▶ 1:04:33Thank you Mr. Copelan. I have 17 whole seconds. [laughter]
▶ 1:04:37Employers agree with you completely. So the reason skills based hiring is happening is because employers face barriers in finding people who have the skills and abilities to fill the jobs that they need. Absent a skills-based approach to hiring. If we just look at um a formal a formal diploma, we're excluding enormous amounts of people in the population. In addition, jobs are changing really rapidly. So the skills that people need need to change.
▶ 1:05:02So employers are very much in favor of this for exactly the reason that it's going to make them easier and cheaper for them to find the people who can be successful in those jobs.
▶ 1:05:12Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 1:05:15Thank you. I'll now like to recognize my friend from Florida, Mr. Fine.
▶ 1:05:20Well, thank you, Mr. chairman, you back when I went to college long time ago, um I told people it didn't really matter what you got your degree in because you learned three things. You learned how to read, not just read literally, but how to read hundreds of pages a day. You learned how to write, not just one or two sentences, but how to construct papers over multiple days and very quick periods of time. And you learned how to think critically about things. But a couple things have changed in the very long time since I went to college. And it is the growth of the new form of education.
▶ 1:05:50You know, when I was in school, you could go into the premed track. You go in the pre-law track. Well, now at too many schools, we have the pre- Starbucks track, which is where you get a degree in something fake like gender studies or queer studies, where really you're not qualified to do anything when you get done except perhaps go and work at Starbucks. And so I think that for employers that are looking to hire people, finding the skills that they need in order to employ people is even more important.
▶ 1:06:16That also even if I look back into what my degree was in and my skills 30 years ago in things like computer science, it's a lot different world today. So the fact that I might have a degree in something from 30 years ago does not mean that degree is in of itself all that useful today. The programming language of 30 years ago are not the programming languages of today. So, I think that's why what we're talking about here is so important.
▶ 1:06:38Um, President Pulsifer, if if Congress were to support wider adoption of learning and employment records, what one or two measurable outcomes like wage growth, reduced time to hire, or increased completion of short-term programs would we expect to see in five years that would tell us that this approach is
▶ 1:06:56Yeah, thank you for that, Congressman. I do think you've even highlighted some of the things that I would raise which is we certainly know that today the oneanddone model of college and to work is not actually what the world we live in already to where the continual upskilling is required. So I do think what you'd actually see is you'd see a dramatic increase in the number of individuals enrolling in and completing short duration credentials meaning subderee and it's not only for those who don't hold a bachelor's degree it's also for those who are postderee because the continual upskilling that's actually required.
▶ 1:07:25You also see manifest what we even saw in a recent survey of over 3,100 employers, which is employers themselves are already recognizing that both experience and micro credentials are have significant value in signaling that you're ready and possess the competencies and skills needed for the job. Then another metric you would see was what percentage of the individuals that are being hired or promoted into jobs that are not holding a bachelor's degree but are being actually hired on the basis of experience or an upskilling credential etc. you'd also see that.
▶ 1:07:55But most importantly to your point, I I do think you'd actually see significant uh economic mobility among a broader swath of the workforce population rather than only in the top quartile. You'd see it across the whole cortile because you'd see economic mobility across the whole. Sure. Because we've got an issue, right? We've got people who need people to fill jobs and then we've got people who are willing to fill those jobs, but it's hard for the employer to figure out what skills the potential employee had.
▶ 1:08:23And simply saying you have a degree in X from Y institution doesn't necessarily fill the gap. Plus, frankly, for many people, the economic returns of taking four years off. You know, one of the big uh challenges I remember telling people when I went to business school was for the vast majority of people who go and get an MBA, the return is negative because if they took two years off from work and then they paid a fortune for their degree, you're never going to make up down the road for that loss. There were a few schools where that wasn't the case, but for the vast majority, it wasn't.
▶ 1:08:52And so again, helping people get credentials quickly, easily, and cheaply, and then aligning them with employers helps. Um Mr. Mr. Donado, from the employer perspective, have you seen reductions in time to fill positions, lower turnover, or better job performance when hiring through skills-based job descriptions powered by the Alabama talent triad?
▶ 1:09:12I think the return on that is is too early, but what we are hearing from employers is having validated less, validated skills does help them to move through the the process quicker. um we are still working through opportunities where they are using multiple job boards, using the talent triad, using different scenarios to determine what those those look like.
▶ 1:09:35Um but all employers are very much in favor of getting the understanding the talent pipeline in a more in a more sophisticated way, understanding where those credentials and skills are coming from and making sure that the programs that are being invested in align with their needs. And that's ultimately I think where um this is all moving towards in a very fast and and equitable
▶ 1:09:57Great. Well, look, I I think what we're talking about to some degree is a cliff's notes. For the same reason people will go to a Michelin starred restaurant or frankly look for a degree from certain institutions, they're looking for something easy to identify what it is that they're looking for. And when you're an employee looking for a job, you're still a product and you're looking for ways to identify yourself appropriately to the employer that you may want to hire you. So, I appreciate all of you and the work that you're doing and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:10:24Thank you. I [clears throat] now like to recognize my my friend from California, Mr. Dalio.
▶ 1:10:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all the witnesses for being here. Um, Mr. Cheney, your organization did a report recently that identified 1.8 million credentials available in the United States. Another organization, reputable organization did a report and evaluation that said of all those credentials, you only see about 12% increase in actually wage and benefit.
▶ 1:10:52Um, so seems we've got a real disconnect and we have an opportunity in the workforce investment act reauthorization to close that disconnect. So everything you've talked about increases efficiencies, benefits the American economy by connecting talent to where the need is. technology. Unfortunately, as a representative from the San Francisco Bay area, I was told years ago, don't be seduced by the marketing of the technology. It's the application of that technology.
▶ 1:11:21And an environment right now where I hear young people all the time tell me about ghost jobs and how difficult it is. You sit there, it's very impersonal. You're on a digital platform that could be really beneficial, but it's not connecting humans to humans. And this I say from somebody who was an employer in the service industry where if you didn't identify people with inherent people skills, you didn't last very long in the hotel and restaurant industry. So Mr.
▶ 1:11:47Cheney, to begin with you, how do we use this opportunity to actually change that? So 1.8 million credentials, but only a 12% identified benefit for all those people who are spending that money. There's a lot of waste in the system. and where that waste goes um is just a drain on the American economy.
▶ 1:12:09So I thank you for the question and and I would agree there is an opportunity with the uh we owe a reauthorization to help address this. I would also say that there's an opportunity being uh taken right now in the workforce pel uh regulated uh regulation negotiation where they're looking at how do we get better data about the outcomes of short-term programs.
▶ 1:12:31uh that is where the majority of the growth is happening in the marketplace in these short-term programs, these skill-based uh training programs and we don't have enough uh effort going into getting the actual outcome data. There is a initiative that's been stood up by the strata foundation called cred lens which is targeting this exact challenge of how do we get better records, better information on the outcomes of short-term credentials. I think there's a lot that we can learn from the work that they're doing.
▶ 1:12:59But one of the things in WEOA is to really enforce the requirement that if you're going to be on an ETPL, the eligible training provider list, you have to report your outcome data so that we have a better ability to decide what we're funding and what we're not funding through that program. We can extend that to other programs as well.
▶ 1:13:18As a followup to that, this committee before I was on it and in California when I was chair of the labor committee, we were having a lot of problems with uh for-profit colleges where uh what we did in California was just say if this is what your advertising is, you're legally required to connect the dots to make sure that you're actually placing these people.
▶ 1:13:39And that's worked really well in terms of um saving a lot of uh or creating an efficiency where the people who are applying and the and the employer knows that you're actually getting value out of what they're marketing. Mr. Kaplan, do you have anything to add to that in your experience?
▶ 1:13:57I do. I think it's um one of the the really important to look at the fact that we're really focused on uh turning all these credentials into digital objects. So, I'm going to sort of take down that path here because I think that one of the challenges that people have in receiving a credential is what do you do with it? My all mine are hanging on my wall. [laughter] So, I think it's uh we need to make those uh more powerful for people by giving them a digital control over it and therefore they can share it more broadly.
▶ 1:14:27We also need to encourage employers to move towards skills-based hiring so that they can look at the credentials and the skills within those credentials that people have and they can use them as a as a match. Now, one final thought I think in this area is also we're also trying to encourage the proliferation of this digital information over time.
▶ 1:14:46As we get more information out into the universe, there's we ought to be able to see how credentials um and skills coming from one place match to people's abilities to get jobs because all that information is going to be out there. And so I think that if we're able to inspect the data more accurately, we have more data available uh that can people can be used, we can really tighten up this connection between the skills that people are getting and the jobs that they're getting. That's great.
▶ 1:15:16And one other thing I just think we can look at other economies who do this better. Um the Germans for instance. Now I know culturally it's different but connecting whether it's a craft or it's college degree credential. You're connecting talent with the job opportunities and looking and also measuring where there's going to be changes. Thank you Mr.
▶ 1:15:37Thank you. [clears throat] Now I'd like to uh recognize my friend from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi.
▶ 1:15:44Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, ranking member, and thank you to the witnesses. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this interesting bipartisan issue today. But that being said, if we want to talk about education, workforce data infrastructure, we should talk about what's happening with the dismantling of the Department of Education. The Trump administration's fired more than half of the department's workers without cause.
▶ 1:16:05And now the secretary is using inter agency agreements to illegally transfer essential offices and operations including the office of post-secondary education to other agencies. I also submit I think we should be talking about that but we should also be talking about uh the critical issue of uh AI and education and the privacy and security and bias issues. We're not doing that today. Um but but I this is an interesting conversation.
▶ 1:16:30I I I want to note that I have some questions and concerns about LEARS, learning and employment record systems. I'm interested especially in what kind of worker protections are incorporated into the design. Uh I I saw the the something about college transcripts and as as someone who didn't have a traditional college path, as someone who has uh a constant contact with people in higher education, um I I'm I'm a little concerned that we're we're putting a lot of of pressure on students.
▶ 1:17:00I I can tell you there are some people who have not so great college transcripts, but they have amazing skills uh like communication, collaboration, critical thinking, all these things that are harder to measure. So, so I I wonder I I mean Digital Promise, which is a bipartisan nonprofit organization uh dedicated to accelerating innovation in education and workforce development, which is a good thing. They surveyed a wide range of workers about leers and many of them were women of color who had experienced discrimination.
▶ 1:17:28They expressed a lot of concern uh that the additional amount of available data including age and gender that could increase the chances of discrimination. That's a problem. I wonder how much control someone has is like, "Oh my gosh, what if you got grades that you weren't really crazy about, but that doesn't mean you don't have a the skills for or or the not the interpersonal skills as well as Mr. DNA was mentioning." So, so I'm I'm trying to wrap my mind about how that works. Digital promise also identified five key design principles.
▶ 1:17:59One of those is giving individuals control how over how their information is shared. But what I want to know is do they control what information is shared? And another is the safety and privacy concerns which I I mentioned are sort of surrounding this huge looming AI issue. So So I I think I'll ask Mr. Cheney and then if there's time others can weigh in. Why is it important for less to be explicit about who has access to indiv individual information and how that information is used?
▶ 1:18:24Should individuals have the option to admit any sort of demographic or personally identifiable information? because I think about what if someone is a victim of a crime or what if they're a dreamer or undocumented and uh or survivor of domestic violence. There's a lot of categories where people might not want a lot of that information shared and and how do we address this this notion that you know what what might be shown on paper doesn't really measure whether somebody has the 21st century job skills which is the sort of creative critical thinking.
▶ 1:18:54So if we want to start with Mr. Cheney
▶ 1:18:56uh yes thank you for the question. So uh absolutely one of the foundational elements of an LER has to be both privacy and security but self- sovereignty. I get to decide what I share which is basically what happens now. Everyone is going to draft their resume to meet the needs of that particular job they're applying for. An LE simply is a way to digitally store all of your experiences.
▶ 1:19:19Maybe not the great grades that you had, you want to share, but the fact that your last boss recognized you and gave you a digital badge for great teamwork. You led that project really well. That may not be a certificate, but it may be a digital recognition that you got from your boss that you want in your le that you can share with that next employer.
▶ 1:19:39Well, you could also put that on a
▶ 1:19:41You could, but now we have it digitally and it's just it's there as a record. So, it's simply a different way of sharing this. But self-s sovereignty has to be foundational to what we're putting in place and that's why I think that it's one of the standards that Congress can help us make sure is in place for setting up a national le system or those kind of requirements.
▶ 1:20:01Thank you. Anybody else want to weigh in in the final? Yes.
▶ 1:20:03Yeah. Can I just uh I think this is a really important topic because I think one of the key differences is that in a resume or a LinkedIn profile, this is you actually deciding and declaring that I have these skills etc. That's very different than having verified and validated competencies in particular skills. And so even in the case of where you have an employer who's in fact signaled that this individual has these particular skill sets, that employer is actually verified of being able to write that to your to your actual digital transcript.
▶ 1:20:31Now the other thing to your question is like the individual also has the right to accept whether or not they want that on their uh digital transcript. Meaning you don't just automatically have to take everything. You're still the principal. you are the one who's in charge of what's contained within it, what of that information you want to share with others, etc.
▶ 1:20:47That's really helpful. And and as I yield back, Mr. Chairman, I do want to note that I have a bipartisan no robot bosses act that I recently introduced to address the seriousness of uh employers who are using AI to with with no human to scan resumes coming in or or job applications coming in. I invite my colleagues to take a look at that and I yield back.
▶ 1:21:08Thank you. I would like to uh recognize my friend from Missouri u Mr. Hunter.
▶ 1:21:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses to for coming before the subcommittee today. This in this Congress, we've frequently discussed how college for all um has failed our society. Employers no longer value bachelor's degrees as much as they once did. Um 80% of employers value experience over education when invol evaluating job candidates.
▶ 1:21:37And recent recent surveys have shown that nearly half uh plan to eliminate uh bachelor's degree requirements. Um many students graduating from four-year colleges and universities are simply not prepared for the workforce as much as they ought to be.
▶ 1:21:55Um, not only have recent college graduates reading, writing and math skills declined, 78% of employers reported that having um reported having a candidate with strong technical skills but uh performing poorly because of so lacking so-called soft skills such as such as teamwork and problem solving and work ethic. So in many cases, credentials carry more meaning for employers.
▶ 1:22:19uh learning and employment records um can provide employers with a much clearer picture of an applicant's uh skills and whether they would be a good fit for the company. Uh Mr. Kaplan gave a great example of Maria and and um and uh how her le boosted her hiring value. Maria's le showed employers that she was far more qualified for a potential job than what her resume and educational background might have indicated.
▶ 1:22:45Her LER shows that she has a vast array of quantifiable competencies gained from her military experience and work experience. And the best part is that Maria owns all the data uh in her le. Um however, one concern that we need to address that I'm sure has been touched on earlier in this hearing is uh the need to make sure that we have robust privacy protections in this system. U Mr.
▶ 1:23:09Kaplan, what privacy and data security protections should be in place to ensure that Maria and millions other of Americans uh can feel comfortable and that their le data won't be misused or abused or hacked.
▶ 1:23:22This is very similar to other kinds of technologies like this. Uh you can think about medical records uh and the issues that have uh we've had to work our way through to make sure that that system worked. I think that the core to solving this problem is one you have to engineer privacy into the infrastructure itself. Uh and that means that the infrastructure has to ask questions and challenge and work on these protocols and standards that ensure that digital privacy is protected.
▶ 1:23:50People give informed consent when they uh when they use that information or when they share that information. Another thing I think that Congress should consider is we should step back and we should take a look at FURPA uh and FC both of which have direct relevance to the use and sharing of this kind of information.
▶ 1:24:11uh both of those those requirements were written in a pre-artificial intelligence age and I think it's going to be critical that we take a look at that regulatory framework and we update it to ensure that the kind of privacy and security protections that you're talking about are embedded from a regulatory perspective as well as from a legislative perspective
▶ 1:24:34and of course to really unleash L's uh potential we need employer buyin Um, right now many small businesses would be uncertain about how less might accommodate their human resource uh needs and their current current talent acquisition strategy. Uh, they cite any number of technical, regulatory and cultural barriers to the adoption of LER. Um, yeah, Mr. Kaplan, how would you um what would you identify as the top barriers and how can Congress help overcome those?
▶ 1:25:04I think the the the top areas and I think this is particularly important for small and medium-sized businesses is frankly just simplicity of access. So I really support the state initiatives that are focused on overall economic and workforce development and the movement of the states in order to create these kind of systems because most people work in small and medium-sized businesses. We need to make this really simple and the good news is we can make it we can make it incredibly simple.
▶ 1:25:32So one is sort of that let's make this system simple. Uh let's have the communities that are are looking at these jobs uh really really engaged in in all of this happening. Uh and then the other side of it is we have to show demonstrable value to employers that taking skills-based information through learning and employment records makes it cheaper, easier and better for them. So they can find they get better quality candidates that they can take a look at.
▶ 1:26:00uh they can get through the employment process quicker and that when those people are are in jobs that they're more successful. So that's going to take some work, some time, but I think we understand how to go about it.
▶ 1:26:10Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 1:26:12Thank you. I would like to recognize my my good friend from Wisconsin, Mr. Gman.
▶ 1:26:18Thank you very much. Uh Mr. Donado. Um, are there technical changes that employers would need to make to upgrade their systems to accept skills-based records? You think
▶ 1:26:33uh there are certainly some technical changes or or opportunities to upgrade. Um there's some different standards available like le RS um but ultimately when we're talking about talent marketplaces as an opportunity we also have can bypass a lot of the HR or ATS systems because we've built in the opportunity to allow for employers small businesses medium-sized businesses and large businesses to understand the talent that's available and to
▶ 1:27:03I think they probably can figure it out. I think in a lot of cases always a little bit afraid of having the government get more involved in this. Um do you think um there's certain people including Republican congressmen who want to push more credentialism even if that credentialism is through a tech school they want more credentialism. Do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing? Or because credentialism is a little bit different than a skills-based uh hiring decision, isn't it?
▶ 1:27:32Is credentialism good or bad? Um, I think the understanding of what the credentials offer and the skills that they offer is is a good thing. The transparency that LS and talent marketplaces offer is definitely a
▶ 1:27:47Okay. I didn't exactly get get the answer to your question. We'll ask one of the others to to respond. Um, credentialism means that to me, you took a class. Maybe you wouldn't be good doing this job in the workplace, but you took a class, so you get a credential.
▶ 1:28:07And I think uh skills-based means maybe even the employer himself gives you a test or talks to um references or whatever and says this person can do a good job. Do you think credentialism based on academic achievement is a good or bad thing?
▶ 1:28:27I'll take that uh question, Congressman. Um I think if you start from the end and work backwards and the end being like what does the workforce require? I do believe that the workforce and employers are looking for proxies uh that signal the competencies in the skills required for the role in the job.
▶ 1:28:45uh good example of that is simply how industry certifications across technology sector across healthcare etc those have emerged to be a great proxy that if the holder of that certificate or that credential if you will that already is a great signal of the skill that this individual already has demonstrated the competency needed to do that to do that job now that is actually a great market-based model of using credentials to signal value you're certainly right that if we're not careful you take any course you get awarded a badge you take any class, you did get a badge,
▶ 1:29:15etc. That will propagate the dynamic that you see on credential engine today. 1.8 million things registered on there. But reality is is that the ones that are actually credible and value in the market are a small small fraction of that and it's now created noise in the system that's not good for anybody, including the individuals who are getting the badges.
▶ 1:29:35Okay, Mr. Kaplan, is there a concern here that as we delve into this, somebody decides what's on that le what you have to do to get a good le or not a good le is that going to be a difficult thing or is that something that makes it more difficult and we don't want the government slashing around and making decisions as to what to do here or do we trust government to be able to coach people how to put together a good l?
▶ 1:30:04I think we need to rely on those who are issuing the less and issuing the credentials to make that decision. So in terms of the
▶ 1:30:11who would that person be
▶ 1:30:12who would that it would could be an employer it could be an academic institution it could be a government agency I mean to me an LE or credential is just it's a container and that container represents a set of skills and competencies that are there uh and I believe that over time the marketplace can sort out uh sort out those that are those that are good uh and those that those that are bad
▶ 1:30:36and if we say the marketplace uh as opposed the marketplace is almost the opposite of an LER and that an LE somebody an academic government agency or whatever is saying you have such and such a competency and without an LE the individual himself the guy in the in the room doing the interviewing has to make that decision or together with whatever the references tell him or the prospective employee has to tell them.
▶ 1:31:06So I guess my fear is that if the government if the government gets involved the government begins to set that you know maybe a person who's perfectly capable of doing the job does not hit those standards. Uh and that's my concern. We better just let natural evolution as over time more and more employers become aware that particularly college degrees aren't worth worth much.
▶ 1:31:33And as one employer told me, a master's degree is almost a negative because it takes you too long to deprogram these
▶ 1:31:40Well, when I talked about standards earlier in my testimony, I was really talking about technical standards uh that can support interoperability, not standards in defining what's a good le or not a not a good. Uh one thing that I would add is we also envision within this learning and employment record universe self- asserted skills.
▶ 1:32:00So, we're not just looking at formal but we're also giving people the opportunity and encouraging them to bring forward skills and competence that they have and put that into the L as well. The key to all of this is just transparency about the data that's in the LE. So, whoever looks at that, whether it's an employer or an academic institution, they know where that information came from. Uh, if it's coming from an employer or an academic institution, you can verify it.
▶ 1:32:28If it's coming from an individual, they can state why they think they have those skills and competencies and so the person reading that lee can make the determination based upon the information that's in it whether or not uh they agree with the value that it's bringing.
▶ 1:32:43Thank you for giving me the additional
▶ 1:32:46Thank you. Thank you so much. Uh now I'd like to recognize my friend from Virginia, a ranking member, member
▶ 1:32:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I think we all agree that skills are important and we're not talking about just um uh digitizing a resume that we can do that today, but creating a record that lists specific uh skills that can be recognized nationally. Now, that offenses many questions, Mr.
▶ 1:33:23Cheney um because it you're looking at what the process is for validating a particular credential who gets to make the verification how you evaluate credentials who gets to regulate all this. There are a lot of ways to evaluate credentials. I mean, you can get a rec. We have the registered apprenticeship program now [cough and clears throat] run by the Department of Labor. Program is recognized.
▶ 1:33:53If you're a graduate of a registered apprenticeship program, you it's a high quality because it got registered and it's nationally Now um you can get that through I guess um you can get a credential by graduating from a recognized institution or a skill certificate from a recognized institution. You can take a test.
▶ 1:34:16You can be a licensed by government agency or evaluated by some credentialed reviewer. We've heard employers writing stuff into the um into the le but I'm a little concerned that they may not be qualified to evaluate particularly when you toss in subjective requirements.
▶ 1:34:41What kind of process would there be to get this national recognition so that everybody knows
▶ 1:34:48what you have on your resume? So, thank you for the for the question, Mr. Chairman. Um, I I don't think we're talking about a national recognition. Uh, we're talking about a national system that allows information in an LE to be uh openly and and securely shared across different users of that system.
▶ 1:35:12So it could be that an individual can share their the information in their le with a next educator, with a next employer or whoever else they they choose to. Um so it's not a a national recognition. It's a it's a national
▶ 1:35:27there's not a national recognition. This isn't much more than just digitizing your resume. Well, I I'm I'm trying to be careful in using recognition because I don't want that to be uh conveyed back to uh Representative Gothamman's question about, you know, is this governmentally approved kind of kind of situation. But we do need a national system where we have the ability to know that information is being shared securely about the validated skills that you have.
▶ 1:35:51Well, Mr. Kaplan, we have um this thing going. We have this pan of programs in Utah and Alabama. Do they recognize each other's work? I can't speak specifically to Utah and Alabama, but I would say that from what I know, uh, it's a challenge to move a credential issued in one state and have it be identical to a credential issued in another state.
▶ 1:36:18If you don't have if you don't have a system that does that, what are we talking about? Well, that's what we're encouraging be created here is that
▶ 1:36:26something akin to the registered apprenticeship program where the department of labor would be in control and would designate would set the standards. We're talking about a decentralized distributed infrastructure that would allow people to move information within the le about their skills and competencies anywhere they go. Think of it more like ATMs or credit cards.
▶ 1:36:52So what what we're talking about here is that you have all these different issuers of let's say credit cards call that an LE and all these different recipients of credit card say LS and we want to make it really simple for all that movement to occur.
▶ 1:37:08Well if you don't know what somebody's credential is I'm not sure how valuable it would be. We've heard I think gentleman from Missouri mentioned um a lot of employers are less interested in specific skills and more interested in soft skills like showing up on time, following direct following directions, critical critical thinking, working with others.
▶ 1:37:34How does all this um convey those kinds of skills? Well, I think again we want to be able to allow people themselves to assert that they have skills in in those kinds of areas. When you're talking about the soft skills areas, in fact, there are a lot of organizations that provide recognition for having those soft skills.
▶ 1:37:56Uh when I worked at IBM, uh we got recognition for things that we did collaboratively or collectively uh that you know that we were good at selling. So, as an example, I I have a certificate in selling.
▶ 1:38:09Okay. Uh, and so that's sort of a soft skill, right?
▶ 1:38:13If if I may, Congressman, on this point, I think there's a there's there's a key consideration here, which is I think I understand where you're going with the registered nature of things. Degrees out of institutions are registered and they're valid, if you will, but not all of those have credibility and readiness actually attached to them in the marketplace.
▶ 1:38:31So I think it's a combination of both the effects of ensuring that there are those that can verify and validate competencies or skills they're awarded but you also have to have the markets influence there because not all of those credentials are actually valued or credible in the marketplace. They're not relevant to the jobs are needed. And so I think the notion of a digital learning record and and skill record here is to effectively signal that says for the job that you require the skills and competencies necessary in that I can signal to you that I have had those verified. They're not self-declared.
▶ 1:39:02They've actually been verified by the institution where I demonstrated that competency or I certified it. So then it becomes credible in the marketplace in that way.
▶ 1:39:10Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:39:12Thank you so much. Appreciate that. Um I'd like now to recognize my friend from North Carolina, Mr. Harris.
▶ 1:39:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank all of you on the panel for being a part of this today and your expertise. And I apologize for being in and out, but other committee meetings required. Um, the most important political issue of today is how to ensure that our economy works for everyday Americans, not against them. We know that Biden Nomics doesn't work. And under President Trump, this Republican Congress is working. We're building an economy that unleashes opportunity for everyone.
▶ 1:39:48For too long, I'm convinced that Washington has been pushing a one-sizefits-all idea that every young person has got to follow the same path, chase the same degree, or travel the same road just to find a job. But that's not the American way. And our nation was built by men and women whose skill, grit, God-given talent created the greatest engine of prosperity that the world has ever seen. reading your testimonies coming in here.
▶ 1:40:14Today's hearing obviously of the learning and employment records or leers is premised upon the idea that there's a better way to communicate what an ad job applicant is capable of rather than just sharing a resume. It's rooted in the idea that focusing on a person's skills and using technology can fix a problem that both employees and employers have in today's job market. So, Mr. Mr. Kaplan, if if you may, because we have to be able to explain this back to our constituents back home.
▶ 1:40:44From an employer's perspective, what problem in the hiring process were less actually designed to
▶ 1:40:53The primary problem that they were designed to solve is to provide the employer a much more granular information about an individual and the skills that they have that they could verify and have confidence so that they would make a decision on it. uh and so this provides efficiency uh into the talent marketplace and talent management system.
▶ 1:41:13Uh, another important part of it from an employer perspective is to open up the aperture for the kind of candidates who would be qualified for their jobs so that they can look at the entire continuum of people whether they have a college degree, whether they were in the military, whether they've uh collected uh experience in their own lives and be able to present that in a way that an employer can recognize that it matches to jobs.
▶ 1:41:37And finally, it was also meant to encourage employers themselves to understand the skills and competencies people need to be successful in their jobs and to articulate those skills and competencies to the market and to people so that they know if I want to try and get this job, here are the skills and competencies that I need. Can can you give a basic example of how a human resources system or hiring platform might read a learning and employment record?
▶ 1:42:04Sure. So the way it would work today is not dissimilar to what they're doing with a resume. So um now pretty much an AI algorithm is receiving that resume and they're extracting out of it skills and they're matching those skills to the employer's job description. So that that's sort of the world of it today and it's a pretty rough cut when they do that.
▶ 1:42:26What we're trying to get through uh by moving towards u validated and verified learning and employment records is that rather than trying to extract and understand what's in a resume, an individual can present verified and validated information to the HR manager and recruiter so they can see that direct uh they can see that direct match uh and they can make decisions based upon that.
▶ 1:42:51Thank you, Mr. Pulsifer. Your institution has obviously led the way on getting college students set up with less. What problem would you say from a new graduates perspective can an actually solve?
▶ 1:43:06Yeah, I think the primary thing and we've seen this in the data of the now more than 60,000 of our students are actually utilizing is the number one thing they're using is the career navigation capabilities that now affords them. So that now they know they have a degree or a credential but what they don't directly know is what are all the jobs for which my particular credential with all the competencies which ones am I already able to actually apply for because I can demonstrate the readiness and so the benefits that they're gaining now is that they get visibility to all the roles at different employers in
▶ 1:43:36my specific kind of search area me my geo location that now I can see in fact which are the ones I'm ready for. What they can also see is if I see jobs I do want but I may not yet have a complete skill match against it also will surface to them additional learning journeys that they can take to acquire those skills. So that's the number one thing they're seeing. They're actually getting greater kind of control of their own career navigation.
▶ 1:44:00Okay. Would you say that's the most promising early outcome you've seen from WGU students using the digital skills record? I think on the individual side like that is very promising because it's giving the individual the confidence that they can now declare their competency into the workforce. Now one of the really other promising thing it is definitely doing what you've heard here is employers are now seeing a much broader talent pool than they were seeing seeing previously.
▶ 1:44:24This is to your earlier point which is there are many individuals who possess the skills and competencies they needed but it didn't come in the form of a degree. They're seeing a much broader talent
▶ 1:44:33Excellent. Well again thank all of you for being here as part of that and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:44:38Thank you. Thank you everyone for your testimony. Uh now I'd like to move toward our closing remarks. I would like to round recognize Mr. Adams for her closing remarks.
▶ 1:44:56Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And again, thank you to u to the witnesses for speaking with us today. Uh learning and employment records have the potential to open new pathways to employment for many workers who have the knowhow to do the job but lack a four-year degree. As both unemployment and and the cost of living continue to rise, it's vital that we invest in new technologies and resources for Americans to achieve upward economic mobility.
▶ 1:45:26However, there's still many questions that need to be answered. Learning and employment records come with with many hurdles to implementation, including a lack of common data sta uh standards, data privacy concerns, and and low buy in from both employers and job seekers for learning and employment records to benefit employers and job seekers. We must comprehensively address these problems.
▶ 1:45:53We must also ensure that that by implementing these systems that we're opening doors to opportunity and not closing them. When done right, learning and employment records could potentially uplift marginalized populations. And as we continue to to discuss these issues, we must take steps to further close income gaps and prioritize equity in job training and hiring. I do appreciate our conversation today. It's been certainly very helpful.
▶ 1:46:23Uh, and I hope that we can continue to work to provide economic opportunity to all Americans, not just the wealthy and the well-connected. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back uh the balance of my time.
▶ 1:46:36Thank you so much. Um, I tell you, I think it's important that we recognize visionaries when we have them. And uh you know I can think that back in the day of uh the first flight not too many people understood the power of the Wright brothers experiment. Uh they had no idea that Alexander's bail hello Watson would turn into this. Uh I can say this uh I do recognize what you guys represent your entire team your industry. Uh it's going to be very very exciting times.
▶ 1:47:06I hope I can kind of convey that in my closing statements. But I want to thank you for thinking outside the box collaboration that you're going through right now and seeing what can truly happen and and allow so many people who have been lost in the past to finally get that taste of American dream. I'm excited about being part of that process. Uh imagine children born today with options and choices that they'll have 18 years from now.
▶ 1:47:29uh not only children raised in the middle class but the 400,000 foster kids the 11 to 12 million kids born in poverty that in the past over 80% will probably die in poverty what you your vision compared to whatever uh connected with everything else that's happening the last 10 months is going to be remarkable as we get into the next few years uh combined over the last 10 months with the Trump account federal ch school choice less 18 years from now no matter who's listening regardless what community
▶ 1:48:00you lived in, what job you have, your child will have a personal trump account with potential based on average stock value around 300,000 by the time they're 18 years old. Um, due to school choice passed by the Working Families Tax Cut Act, you'll be able to enroll your child in the best school and setting for them where they'll no longer be stuck in poverty. uh they will be a able therefore to be proficient in math, reading and and uh writing.
▶ 1:48:29Not only that, but they'll also be financially literate because for the years that years coming up to that and years ahead, they will be they will have their own trump account understanding how to get the best return on investment on their account. By the way, not counting social security, the personal trump account will be worth millions by the time of uh people are getting ready to retire because L's AI and B and parents buy in little Jane and Johnny starting around sixth and seventh grade will start to prepare for their own uh p
▶ 1:49:00career of passion with high school dual enrollment and trades certification and and um apprenticeships. Some will leave high school ready to start a career or some will start their own business because they've been taught about the capitalist system by free free enterprise. And those uh who have a passion for higher education, they'll not only take the courses necessary for their career, but due to their own financial literacy will leave with no debt.
▶ 1:49:23All these scenarios of young people working smart, hard, and following their dreams will allow them to buy their first home in their 20s and start their families in their They'll be able to retire in their 40s and 50s and 60s possibly if they want to. More importantly, they'll be able to enter and enjoy the middle class, which is what our country is all about. They'll appreciate our American culture.
▶ 1:49:47We taught about his our history, the capitalist system to give back, the fact that we have a God in heaven that really gave us a remarkable country, and they'll be able to teach their kids these uh same lessons that we're learning. This will be the American dream for our kids. Not not just a few of them, but our foster kids. Kids trapped in poor zip codes.
▶ 1:50:07Kids that are experiencing the juvenile system right now that have bad or no parenting, they will grow up being great parents, being able to teach their kids because been educated and be able to pass on that idea of hope and opportunity. So, I I want to thank you. Uh this is a game changer. I I don't know if everybody everybody else gets it yet. Um, I had a chance to, um, last little last little message. I had a chance about four years ago to sit down with Nick Sabin. He came to talk to a bunch of us about NIL.
▶ 1:50:36And he talked about how they look for talent. They said they actually can identify a young man in the seventh grade. By the time he gets to 11th grade, they can offer him a scholarship. And the reason why is because they're communicating with this young man. This young man, first of all, knows what Alabama or Miami can offer. And therefore, he's willing to do whatever it takes because that's his passion. It's not work. It's it's it's enjoyment for him to get to what this place, this place of NFL opportunities, maybe the color, the culture, whatever it might be.
▶ 1:51:04And that school also recognizes young man, their talent that this is what we need to grow our successful team. So, they're communicating, but 11th grade, they have come to a win-win. We need to be doing the same thing with our kids. seventh, eighth grade, a AI, parents involvement, parents understanding, great teachers. The things we're going to do the next 18 to 20 years, these kids growing up right now will be remarkable. And I'm excited to be part of that. That should be our legacy.
▶ 1:51:31What can we do to make sure our kids have such a remarkable great future and it comes down to working confidence middle class giving back and saying thank you for this opportunity to live in this remarkable country. So that being said, uh I can't thank you guys enough. Appreciate anything we can do. I love the bipartisanship that we have on this. Let us know how we can help. And with that, um, I want to thank the witnesses again for taking the time to testify before the subcommittee today. Without objections, there being no further business, the subcommittee stands adjourned.
▶ 1:52:04Thank you.