▶ 0:12:26Subcommittee on Border Security and Enforcements hearings on US Customs and Border Protections use of non-intrusive uh technology or NI at our borders. Uh the committee uh will come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare the committee in recess at any point. Without objection, the gentleman from Rhode Island, Mr. Magaziner will be permitted to sit on the dis and ask questions today.
▶ 0:12:54The purpose of this hearing is to examine US Customs and Border Protections non-intrusive inspection systems program including its crucial role in detecting and preventing the entry of contraband into the country.
▶ 0:13:09Additionally, we'll discuss the challenges and roadblocks in the deployment of NI equipment as evidenced in the fall 2025 government accountability office report that concluded the program must be strengthened to achieve congressional mandated scan rates. I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
▶ 0:13:32CBP's non-intrusive inspection equipment uses technology to locate concealed items such as drugs, weapons, or people in vehicles and cargo. As cartels and other smuggling organizations develop more sophisticated means of concealing drugs and contraband, the government must adop adapt to stay ahead of these evolving threats, and the expansion of the NI program will play a critical role in that effort.
▶ 0:14:00CBP mans the front lines and our efforts to keep threats out of our country and NI has been an intricral tool for CBP's mission. NI enables CBP to detect and interdict contraband while minimizing the impact to the flow of lawful trade and travel at our borders.
▶ 0:14:20Pursuant to the Securing America's Port Act of 2021, CBP was tasked to develop a plan to reach a 100% high through NII scan rate at land ports of entry by 2027.
▶ 0:14:35As of fiscal year 2024, CBP fell short of that goal, using NI to examine approximately only 8% of passenger vehicles and 27% of commercial These low scan rates can be attributed partially to poor planning and mismanagement from acquisition to installation and the deployment of the NI equipment.
▶ 0:14:59Reports from both the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General and the Government Accountability Office have raised concerns with one program management and two future outlook. NI program leaders have assured oversight bodies that they have made changes to their structure, staffing, management, and standards to ensure scan rates reflect the amount of taxpayer dollars that the program has received.
▶ 0:15:26Ultimately, regardless of the prior shortcomings in the NI program, the capabilities NI affords to our frontline officers keeping our ports secure are invaluable. We must continue to invest responsibly in this technology as we see that this technology has a proven track record in facilitating CBP's ability to protect and prevent smuggling into our country.
▶ 0:15:54Additionally, having just ended a year with record low illegal border crossings, CBP has the opportunity to invest resources in developing and the deployment of security measures along our border. Those measures include NI which will further strengthen our national security. To aid in this effort, Congress provided a historic investment in the budget reconciliation bill to enhance and improve NI at our borders.
▶ 0:16:24With the appropriations of these additional funds, Congress must provide additional oversight to ensure this investment in the NI program is wisely and efficiently allocated. I'm cautiously optimistic that prudent decisions from NI leadership within CBP, oversight from Congress, and technological advances in industry will allow CBP to achieve 100% scanning rates.
▶ 0:16:51I would like to thank our witnesses for their participation and for briefing ranking member Korea and myself prior to this hearing. I look forward to working with my colleagues to enhance and prioritize CBP's non-intrusive inspection program. I now recognize the ranking member, my friend, the gentleman from California, Mr. Koreah, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:17:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, my good friend, um, Miss Sabatino, Miss Benedict. Thank you for being here today. Um, as a member of this committee, I've had the opportunity to all the ports of entry south border of the US of New Mexico.
▶ 0:17:35And in those visits, I've had the opportunity to begin to understand the job, the task that you have, the So, I have sat there, stood there with your agents in blue uniforms and asked them about their challenges on an everyday basis.
▶ 0:17:58Uh, one thing stood out clear to me, which is when you have a car, when you have a vehicle coming across the border, the challenge is you don't know who is in that car. You don't know if it's a friendly. You don't know what that individual may have in mind, which poses a lot of challenges for the individuals in blue uniform.
▶ 0:18:27I think it's important that we appreciate that it's not only your blue uniforms at the border, but rather it's the result of working with other to make sure that you have the intel to know who's coming to the border at that And that's the challenge that we have today.
▶ 0:18:55Miss Abatino, I want to talk to you about non-intrusive inspection I think I can speak for both the chairman, myself, but Democrats and Republicans support this technology implemented at our border.
▶ 0:19:14But I think we have to have to address a bigger picture issue which is DHS, CBP and NICE are being deployed to the interior of our country and not doing the job that they're supposed to do which is protect our country things that are coming across the border and from to foreign terrorists, foreign elements that may pose a threat to our We recently had
▶ 0:19:45Renee Nicole Good shot and killed by an ICE agent in Minnesota. I've had many stories from my district about American citizens, some being because of the behavior of some of these Today, Miss Aatino, the administration is focused on mass in my opinion, at the expense of our national security.
▶ 0:20:14So much focus on deportations. And I've spoken to many folks that work with you, other departments within the United States government that tell me right now the focus is deportations and not what DHS was supposed to focus on. And as you know, DHS was created after 911. The goal was to protect Americans from future terrorist attacks.
▶ 0:20:44Thousands of Americans died 911. I remember that day. I couldn't believe it was happening in front of my eyes. And DHS was created to stop one of those attacks from happening. Back home, I check with my local law enforcement. One of the individuals I check with is my local sheriff, Don Barnes, who runs a local Orange County Fusion Center.
▶ 0:21:13niece told me many many times that his concern is the focus on has left a lot of empty doors, a lot of open doors in our national security that could be exploited by those that want to do our nation harm. Not only are we leaving doors open, so to speak, in our national security a lot of those agents are now terrorizing our communities.
▶ 0:21:42immigration agents going after not only immigrants but American citizens. Now, last night I got another phone call from the district. Another challenge. This administration is essentially redirected thousands of agents from homeland security from the mission of protecting our country to deportations.
▶ 0:22:07not only homeland but FBI, DEA, CBP, all are now converging on deportations. And as you know, the president of the United States promised that we go he would be going after the worst of the That's not the case today. He's going after immigrants, hardworking construction workers, anybody they can get their hands on.
▶ 0:22:37people that have essentially are providing valuable services and work to this great country. The administration is no longer arresting criminals. They are sadly arresting US citizens. I see this on a daily basis.
▶ 0:22:54I have young people in my district asking me, "Should we carry a I think the fact that they even have to ask me that question is a sad testament to the situation in our country. And some of those that actually carry the passport makes no difference. They've been apprehended, taken in to double, triple check their citizenship status.
▶ 0:23:29I it pains me to see what's going on in my district. Every night I get phone not only undocumented, but American citizens now being arrested, held, alleged, charges dropped, but nonetheless, American citizens being held for a number of days in custody.
▶ 0:24:00Miss Abatino, I support what you do at the border. I've worked with you for a number of years. I think you have a tremendous, tremendously hard job, keeping drugs from coming into the country, making sure that trade and commerce good stuff continues to flow.
▶ 0:24:21We support non-intrusive technology, but when I think of all the resources that should be focused on helping you do your job and instead they're focused on American citizens, on undocumented immigrants that don't even have a traffic ticket to their name. This is bothersome.
▶ 0:24:48As people back home who voted for President Trump tell me, this is not what we thought we were going to get. We voted for an individual that was supposed to deport criminals, not our neighbors that have lived among us for so many years. I'm hoping that as we move forward, this committee, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, as well as we do an investigation of what's really going on.
▶ 0:25:18Miss Sabatino, you've been in uniform for 30 years plus. I trust that you have essentially put into place good practices at the border, how to manage the border, how to treat American citizens. But I'm sad to report that today in the United States, American citizens are being terrorized.
▶ 0:25:49I look forward to hearing your testimony today, ma'am. And Miss Benedict, I look forward to hearing from you as well. But as we focus on a certain technology, we got to pull back and look at the big picture. As General Kelly, former Homeland Security Secretary, used to say, "Border security does not end or begin at the border. It's a holistic approach to protecting this great country." Thank you very much, Mr.
▶ 0:26:20Chairman. With that, I yield. Thank you. I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee uh from the great state of m Mississippi, Congressman Thompson, to give an opening statement.
▶ 0:26:32Thank you very much uh Mr. Chairman, and let me welcome our panel of witnesses uh here this morning. Uh I look forward to your testimony. I'm particularly pleased to see CBP here to answer questions. With the violent immigration enforcement activities occurring in communities, I expect members will have plenty of questions for you, Miss Sabatino, today.
▶ 0:26:57I understand you oversee some of the officers participating in these In fact, we have a photo of your officers participating in a raid in The notice topic today is about inspection equipment. I want to be clear.
▶ 0:27:19I have long pushed for the full deployment of these scanners at our ports of entry to prevent dangerous drugs and other illicit goods from entering the country. There are real concerns with the acquisition and roll out of that equipment and I'll continue to engage with CBP on that. We need to make sure taxpayers dollars are invested effectively.
▶ 0:27:47However, right now the American people are demanding answers about what is happening in our cities. They want to know what immigration agents are being instructed to do. We've all seen the horrific videos from Minnesota, Chicago, Los Angeles, New Orleans, and other areas. The Trump administration is occupying and terrorizing American communities in a name of immigration enforcement.
▶ 0:28:16That is what needs to be our focus today. I do not understand how my Republican colleagues can sit here and pretend it isn't happening. It's been one year since President Trump was sworn into office. It's clear that he along with his corrupt crew don't care about public safety or national security. President Trump and his administration have not made us safer or stronger as a nation.
▶ 0:28:45In fact, he's done the opposite. Just look at Minneapolis. I can't believe anyone could claim those violent actions are making the city safe. Most citizens there will probably tell you they've never felt more unsafe.
▶ 0:29:02Mass federal agents are roaming the streets asking people of color for their papers to prove their citizenship, including young children in Minneapolis who are walking home alone just yesterday. And if they don't have them or don't respond quickly, they are violently arrested and whisk away to unknown locations.
▶ 0:29:30That same thing is happening to those who dare to film them, even though that is a protected activity. This is an assault on everyone's civil rights and civil liberties. And I still can't quite believe that my Republican colleagues who are appalled about wearing a mask during CO are just fine being told that their constituents must carry their passports on them at all times.
▶ 0:29:59Because if an immigration officer can detain a citizen in Minneapolis who doesn't have their passport on them, they can just as easily detain any one of us in this room or anyone of the people we are here representing. This is not okay. None of us should think of it as acceptable. Citizens and nonitizens alike are being harmed by this administration.
▶ 0:30:26We saw an ICE agent shoot and kill a mother of three in broad daylight. An immigration agent, including CBP, have shot at least 11 other people since the start of this Trump administration. In addition to the shootings, we've seen aggressive and violent tactics by ICE and CBP depicted in over-the-top action movies.
▶ 0:30:56A military-style raid in Chicago targeted residents in an apartment building in the middle of the night. Beyond the flashbang, grenades, and agents repelling from helicopters, witness saw children in their underwear zip tied together in vans. Other residents, including US citizens and military veterans, were also zip tied for hours. This is not what our country stands for.
▶ 0:31:25The American people are taking notice. They see the Trump administration and DHS is more focused on an anti-immigrant agenda than improving the lives of our citizens. And I heard uh the ranking member, Mr. career and his passionate comments.
▶ 0:31:45Uh, you know, as a person of color, uh, I had to go through some things in Mississippi as a young black boy and I thought those kinds of activities were passed. But what I see occurring with people of color, black, brown, whatever, is not who we are as a country.
▶ 0:32:13Uh I want law enforcement to follow the law. I now find out that you can just break into somebody's house now without a warrant. We are a better country than this. Uh, I was brought up to respect law enforcement and I I want law enforcement uh to do that job but respect civil rights and civil liberties of anyone in this country.
▶ 0:32:41Um, so I I think we're at a a puncture juncture in this country that is uh concerning to a lot of us. And I hope as we pursue remedy uh for this endeavor, we can uh all get back on the same page. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Uh, thank you, Ranking Member Thompson.
▶ 0:33:12Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. I'm pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this important topic. Pursuant to committee rule 8C, I would ask that our witnesses please rise and raise your right hand.
▶ 0:33:34Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the committee on homeland security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative and please be seated. I would now like to take a moment to formally introduce our witnesses.
▶ 0:33:57First, Miss Diane Sabatino serves as the acting executive assistant commissioner within the field office operations at the US Customs uh and border protection. Uh we also have with us Miss Hillary Benedict who serves as the director of the science technology assessments and analytics director within the government accountability office. I'd like to thank each of our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 0:34:25And Miss Sabatino, I recognize you for five minutes uh to make an opening statement.
▶ 0:34:32Chairman guest, ranking member Koreah, ranking member Thompson, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss how US Customs and Border Protection uses non-intrusive inspection technology or NI to secure our nation's ports of entry while enforcing lawful trade and travel. I'm honored to represent the more than 35,000 men and women of CBP's Office of Field Operations stationed at 328 ports of entry across the nation with more than 800 men and women serving in 48 countries overseas.
▶ 0:35:03Our frontline personnel work tirelessly to protect the homeland. And on a typical day, they process more than 1 million travelers and enable 10 billion dollars in imported goods. At the same time, they prevent the entry of inadmissible individuals, seize illicit drugs, intercept contraband, illuminate and deliver consequences to bad actors in the supply chain, prevent biological threats from harming our communities and natural resources, all while ensuring the efficient flow of lawful trade and travel.
▶ 0:35:31The Office of Field Operations plays a critical role in national security. Our nation's ports of entry are not only gateways for lawful commerce and travel. They are also prime targets for transnational criminal organizations and other bad actors seeking to exploit the immense volume of crossber activity. In fiscal year 25, for example, 75% of elicit drugs seized by Customs and Border Protection at the southwest border were intercepted at ports of entry. NI is one of many tools that we use uh to secure our borders.
▶ 0:36:01It's complimentary to intelligence, K-9 teams, and targeting systems, among many other in support of our most valuable resource, which is our frontline personnel. All of these tools relieve administrative burdens from our personnel, enabling them to do what they do best, which is to determine intent and increase situational awareness. In fiscal year 2025 alone, CBP officers used NI systems to scan more than 17 million sea containers, rail cars, and vehicles.
▶ 0:36:29These inspections led to the introdiction of 110,000 pounds of narcotics, the seizure of 2.2 million in unreported US currency, and the apprehension of 66 undeclared passengers. And while NI technology is a proven and powerful tool, deploying these systems is not without challenges. Constraints related to port infrastructure, real estate availability, and the need to avoid interference with other detection systems can be limiting as to where and how the systems are placed.
▶ 0:36:57To address these challenges, we're continually re-evaluating port facilities, exploring opportunities for alternative placement of uh the systems, and prioritizing deployments in areas with the greatest operational impact. From the beginning of our NI deployments, we have deliberately gathered lessons learned and incorporated them into a long-term comprehensive resource strategy. The strategy strengthens acquisition planning, improves contract support, and ensures systems are deployed where they will deliver the greatest benefit to border security and trade enforcement.
▶ 0:37:27With the support of Congress, we've made significant progress in deploying our enh and and enhancing our NI capabilities. Uh as of December 2nd, we had deployed 405 large-scale NI systems at air, sea, and land ports of entry, including 67 new systems added over the past two fiscal years.
▶ 0:37:44We're also enhancing our NI operations through the integration of artificial intelligence which helps automate the analysis of the scanned images that reduces the time needed for manual image review and allows us to focus our resources on the greatest risks. Looking ahead, we remain committed to expanding our NI capabilities. And with funding provided by Congress, we plan to deploy uh 38 additional systems by the end of this fiscal year.
▶ 0:38:09These drive-through systems will allow us to scan 40% of privately owned vehicles and up to 70% of commercial vehicles at the southwest border land ports of entry, significantly enhancing our ability to detect and interdict threats. And as I mentioned earlier, NI is one of the critical components of CBP's broader multi-layered border security strategy. With investments authorized through the big beautiful bill act, we will enhance uh scanning capabilities and recapitalize many of the existing mobile and fixed technologies in the field today.
▶ 0:38:39Our excuse me, our continued approach prioritizes the indispensable expertise of our frontline personnel, including officers, skilled trade specialists, and agriculture specialists, and integrates all of the specialized tools and capabilities available to us. Through the combined use of advanced technology, K-9 teams, skilled personnel, as well as strong partnerships with federal, state, and international stakeholders, CBP maintains a comprehensive and agile security posture.
▶ 0:39:07This integrated approach not only enhances our ability to address evolving and emerging security threats, but also supports the efficient movement of lawful trade and travel across our borders. Thank you for your continued support of CBP's mission, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:39:22Thank you, Miss Sabatino. I now recognize Miss Benedict for five minutes to summarize her opening statement.
▶ 0:39:29Thank you, Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Korea, Ranking Member Thompson, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to talk about CBP's non-intrusive inspection systems. My statement is based on GO's report on the topic issued in September 2025. CBP has received more than $2 billion to deploy non-intrusive inspection systems at land ports of entry. These systems generally use X-rays to scan vehicles.
▶ 0:39:54Officers review the images from these scans to identify anomalies and indicate the presence of contraband. In 2021, the Securing America's Ports Act directed CBP to develop a plan to scan 100% of commercial and passenger vehicles and rail containers by 2027 using these systems. CBP has made progress in deploying systems in pre- primary inspection areas.
▶ 0:40:18For example, CBP determined it needed a total of 434 systems and procured 153 systems for these areas. 52 were operational at the time of our review. CBP's deployment of these systems has increased its rate of scanning passenger and commercial vehicles at the southwest border. Specifically, scanning rates for passenger vehicles have increased from 2% in 2020 to 8% in 2024.
▶ 0:40:44For passenger vehicles, for commercial vehicles, scanning increased from 16% to 27% during this time. However, three issues have prevented CBP from meeting the requirement to scan 100% of commercial and passenger vehicles and rail containers by 2027. The first issue is planning. CBP's scanning plan does not include all land ports of entry. Specifically, the plan does not include nine southwest border crossings.
▶ 0:41:13These nine crossings together account for 40% of passenger vehicle crossings at the southwest border and include three of the biggest border crossings. Santa Cedro, Ot Mesa, and CBP officials said these sites are not included in the current plans because they are still determining how to overcome space issues at these sites. In our September 2025 report, we recommended that CBP determine how to include systems at all border crossings in its deployment plans.
▶ 0:41:42CBP agreed with our recommendation and plans to implement it by the end of fiscal year The second issue that has prevented CBP from meeting the scanning requirement is cost. CBP developed cost estimates for deploying systems, but cost have exceeded those estimates. These cost increases are due to a variety of factors such as not accounting for all deployment costs in the original estimates and unique construction challenges at each site.
▶ 0:42:10CBP officials said they have received the funding they needed to deploy the systems they have procured to date. However, CBP will need additional funding to meet the 100% scanning requirement because CBP needs to procure additional systems to achieve its current plans and the estimate does not include systems at the nine border crossings that are not included in CBP's plans. The third issue that has prevented CBP from meeting the scanning requirement is the schedule.
▶ 0:42:37Deployment of non-intrusive inspection systems has taken longer than expected. At the time of our review, CBP planned to complete deployment of the systems it had procured for passenger and commercial vehicles by the end of 2026 and for rail containers by the end of 2029. However, it will take longer to achieve the 100% scanning requirement because the schedule does not include the system CBP has not yet procured or the systems needed for the nine biggest crossings that are not included in CBP's plan.
▶ 0:43:08CBP officials told us that various factors have caused schedule delays. For example, major upgrades were needed at some sites. Vendors have been slow to resolve deployment issues and site conditions such as interference with scanning systems have required additional time to resolve. During our review, CBP officials told us they were aware of these issues and were working to resolve them. It will be important for CBP to continue to address these issues as it deploys and operates additional systems.
▶ 0:43:38Moving forward, GAO will monitor CBP's implementation of the recommendations we made in our September 2025 report. We believe that addressing our recommendations would strengthen CBP's management of its non-intrusive inspection systems and its interdiction efforts to help achieve its mission. This concludes my statement. I'm happy to answer any questions.
▶ 0:44:02Thank you. I would now recognize myself uh for uh five minutes to ask questions. Questions will be asked by order of seniority. Uh as I mentioned earlier to each of our witnesses, uh we will have to break shortly uh as votes have been called. But I do believe that we have an opportunity. Would you like to go ahead and break now, Mr. Ranking member?
▶ 0:44:24Let's keep it going.
▶ 0:44:25All right. Uh we're going to get through maybe the first questions by myself and the ranking member. uh and then we will um break uh for us to vote in return quickly. So uh I will begin uh my Miss Sabatun, I know we had a chance to meet uh and visit um and you do a great job of setting forth in your uh written testimony uh the importance of what we're here for today.
▶ 0:44:50You talk about 55 tons of narcotics being seized that 75% of all narcotics that are seized are seized at ports of entry. Uh and so you make a very compelling case uh for the importance of this technology. Uh I'll tell you that as a former prosecutor uh I've seen firsthand the impact that this type of technology has on us being able to stop the flow of illegal drugs.
▶ 0:45:17I know that this makes our border more secure and our agents more effective. Um we've heard statistics um um put out by GAO uh talking about where we are on scan rates. Uh we know that in 2021 the securing America ports act said that by next year by 2027 that we wanted to have 100% scan rates of all passenger commercial and rail.
▶ 0:45:44Uh we started off in uh 2020 with 2% passenger 16% commercial. uh by 2024 that rate had increased to 8% passenger 27% commercial and Miss Sabatino I think you say the goal for FY26 is 40% passenger 70% commercial um and then we heard just in the opening statement of Miss Benedict uh that there are nine southwest border
▶ 0:46:14crossings that have not been included in the planning phase. Uh and so clearly it does not appear to me that we are going to be able to meet that 2027 deadline. We're getting closer and we're getting better and we're moving in the right direction. Uh but we're not getting there quick enough.
▶ 0:46:32We're not getting there fast enough and Americans are dying because fentinyl and methamphetamine and cocaine and other drugs continue to float into our country uh because we are not doing an adequate job of screening that. Uh and so I understand Miss Sabatino and we've met that there are at certain border border crossings there are infrastructure issues uh that we're having to deal with.
▶ 0:46:56Uh there are interference issues where we've got different types of scanners looking for different things and sometimes those scanners interfere with one another. Uh but I also know that there's different types of non-intrusive inspection technology. Uh there's the fixed permanent sites which do have to have infrastructure. There's mobile scanning technology. There's handheld scanning technology.
▶ 0:47:22Uh and so I I want to make sure that we are including when we talk about this inspection technology that we're not just focused on the fixed technology which is great and which we want to have in every port but we know that some of the ports weren't designed for this type of equipment.
▶ 0:47:40uh and I do believe that the mobile and handheld will at least provide us some sort of scanning capabilities uh as we are working toward that 100% uh scan rate uh that Congress instructed DHS to get to. Uh and so my question to to both of you uh and I've got about a minute and a half is how do we get there and how quickly can we get there and what do you need from Congress other than money?
▶ 0:48:10Uh and we have and we have funded this technology. I think we will continue to fund this technology. This is a bipartisan issue. We can argue about other things in the DHS arena, but I don't think there's anybody that's going to question either of you here today that are going to say that we don't need to continue to make this investment. So, what do you need from us uh to make sure that we can get to the 100% scan rate as quickly as possible?
▶ 0:48:36Miss Sabatino, I'll start with you and if there's any time left, Miss Benedict, I'll let you have the remainder of that
▶ 0:48:43Uh thank you for the question, Congressman. certainly uh would say that continued uh accountability and holding us accountable for meeting those goals is critical for us uh to get there with the deployments. They think continuing uh to support our work with uh the vendors to identify uh additional or enhanced or emerging technology.
▶ 0:49:01Um we have uh we're very optimistic about some tests that are going on now working with uh the Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Office uh to address the uh radiation portal monitor interference at a place like Sanro that would significantly increase the scan rates being the largest uh border crossing uh for vehicles on the southwest border.
▶ 0:49:23I think certainly continuing uh to engage with us uh you know with our needs uh with respect to addressing the civil works and funding and very much appreciate the funding that was available to us in the one big beautiful bill act.
▶ 0:49:35Uh Miss Benedict I know I'm almost over time but I want to give you a real brief opportunity to answer as well and then uh I will turn the the questioning over to Mr. Koreah.
▶ 0:49:44Absolutely. I think a first good step a good first step will be CBP including those uh nine border crossings that are not currently in the plans in their plans and how they plan to address the non-intrusive inspection systems at those sites. Uh Sabatino and I have talked and it sounds like that's in progress and we look forward to um seeing their progress on that as we follow up on our recommendations and I look forward to working with you and your committee staff on the updates to our recommendations.
▶ 0:50:10Again, thank you'all both for being here. Thank you for what you do. We want you to be successful. At this time, I recognize the ranking member for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 0:50:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And let me follow up the witnesses uh on the chairman's uh line of thought The thought that San Cedro, one of the nine ports, it's not even being looked at in the plan, biggest probably border crossing in the world. We've got fentinel coming into this country.
▶ 0:50:49Lives being lost. You can't get this technology out there. Miss Miss Benedict, you talked about cost. Big beautiful bill has $170 massive investment in this part of our government. want to work with you to make sure that these non-intrusive technology, these marvels of technology are put into place as quickly as possible.
▶ 0:51:19Miss Sabatino, I'm concerned because the technology is still not implemented yet. It's my understanding that currently you've essentially reassigned or been asked to reassign some of your personnel from the border for ICE deportation enforcement in the interior of the United States. Is that
▶ 0:51:50We have assigned personnel to surge operations. That's not new or unique for we continue to have this issue at the border. Okay? It's not unique to you, but I believe every agency at the federal level is reassigning their for deportations away from their stated purpose.
▶ 0:52:16Is this can say I'm familiar with uh the uh personnel that we have deployed. I I don't know that I could speak for the other federal agencies.
▶ 0:52:26Fair enough. If I can, your officers that you've essentially deployed to uh immigration enforcement, uh is this job different from stopping or reprehending people at ports of entry? Uh again, when it comes to uh surging uh law enforcement support to our federal, state or local partners, that is something that we uh plan for uh for periods of time.
▶ 0:52:56It was reported that the border patrol recently sent out a legal refresher on the use of force. Have you sent out something similar to your officers
▶ 0:53:09Uh we do quarterly training with respect to use of force. Uh we have done refresher training in first amendment and fourth amendment rights and again that is uh not unique to any single deployment that is
▶ 0:53:20I might have I have two minutes but you know just hours after Jonathan Ross ICE officer uh shot ready Nicole Goodary of Homeland Security Missnam stood at a podium and said the officer did exactly what he was taught to do. So, let me ask you if I can and if you have the answers. Do you instruct officers to approach a vehicle from the front to prevent them from fleeing?
▶ 0:53:52Um, while I am familiar with the incident itself, I'm not familiar with exactly what happened and didn't really assess videos of that.
▶ 0:54:00But in general, would you instruct your officers to approach a vehicle from the front to prevent it from fleeing? The direction that officers are trained in is to approach in as safe a manner as possible.
▶ 0:54:11Do you authorize officers to use to shoot at fleeing vehicles if they're not immediately in harm's way?
▶ 0:54:19And in our use of force training, uh it is related to the threat that the individual themselves face or to the Mr. Abatino, within the refresher, it states that passive resistance alone is not conduct under 18 USC section 111 to constitute federal crime.
▶ 0:54:45Um, as long as there's no assault, resisting arrest, or impeding federal officers from doing the job. The Border Patrol in the refresher course stated that it is not a violation of section 1811, non-compliance, refusal to cooperate with an officer's commands.
▶ 0:55:08Disobeying commands without fighting back and taking photographs or videotapes of an officer operating in public again does not constitute a crime. Have you sent out a similar refresher instructions to your officers?
▶ 0:55:26Um, again with respect to the use of force, it is something we do recurring training on.
▶ 0:55:32But would you agree then that taking a photo, videotaping a person standing on the sidelines as situations are developing is not a violation of the law. Uh again, our officers are trained to identify threats and take in the totality of circum uh circumstances uh you know when it comes to threats to themselves or the public.
▶ 0:55:55Thank you, Miss Avatino. Um I'm out of time, but I will ask you these questions again in writing and I hope we can get clearer answers. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:56:06The gentleman yields back. At this time, pursuant to committee rules, the chair will call a recess. We will reconvene uh as soon as uh votes occur. So the committee stands in recess at this time.
▶ 1:48:48The hearing is reconvened. Uh at this time I call on the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane, uh for five minutes for his questioning.
▶ 1:48:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you to the panelists for showing up today to uh, give us your thoughts on non-intrusive inspection technology at the border. For those Americans that might be watching this hearing, um, would it would it make sense to compare this type of technology to, you know, the machine at the airport that scans our bags to look inside and using X-ray technology? Miss Sabatino?
▶ 1:49:26Yes. that identifies anomalies in the
▶ 1:49:29We recently went down to the border as a part of this uh this committee and I got to see some of uh the technology in action. It's it's pretty amazing um that this technology is being deployed. Obviously, it's not going nearly as quick as we want it to. Um I I believe you said you had over 400 units deployed around the country. Is that correct? 405 units deployed both mobile and
▶ 1:49:57And Miss uh Benedict from GAO said that a part of your plan there were nine major ports of entry that this technology is not in your plans to deploy this technology to. Is that uh the technology that's been procured, but we are uh actively working on plans to identify uh technology with vendors for uh beating kind of the physical constraints and the RPM interference in locations where we don't currently have technology deployed.
▶ 1:50:27One thing that I found a little disturbing when looking through um the committee prep for this hearing today was that uh the the uh DHSIG uh put out a report saying that um a lot of the equipment, I think $96 million worth of equipment was sitting in uh storage containers. Um can you unpack that for us, Miss Sabatino, and what the issue there is?
▶ 1:50:57Well, as of today, we currently have 89 systems that are operational of the technology that was procured. We have 24 systems under construction and 44 in active planning. Uh with respect to the systems uh that are in storage, uh 11 of them are high energy rail systems. We currently have uh NI technology at the sites currently. These would be replacing with new technology. Um for the 29 other um pieces of technology that there are uh MEPs and LEAPs.
▶ 1:51:29Two sites specifically uh make up 15 uh of those that are in storage. They've been in storage about a year. Um in March and May of this year uh it's uh nine I believe to Collelexico and uh six uh to San Louise following the construction. they'll be deployed which will shrink uh the number uh that's currently in storage.
▶ 1:51:52So it's not that those um units that were delivered aren't working. You're just working at implementing the deployment of them. Is that correct?
▶ 1:52:01And for these for these sites that don't have the capacity at this time to uh accommodate these uh units, are you guys using portable and handheld uh technology at at those entry points? We do have some type of NI system available at all our land ports of entry and that ranges from mobile technology to handheld uh technology.
▶ 1:52:26How many vendors are you working with to accomplish the goal of um 100% of all vehicles coming through ports of entry being scanned?
▶ 1:52:37Um we deal with different vendors all the time. I would say there's between four and five um that we're regularly in communication with for the specific types of technology that we're looking
▶ 1:52:49Have you found any of the vendors um to be superior in the product they deliver?
▶ 1:52:57Uh I think all have uh benefits to the types of technology and it really is unique to the type of deployment that we're doing and the distinctions between mobile or fixed or the handheld. Which systems are more susceptible to uh have malfunction and breakdown?
▶ 1:53:15number of reasons uh for outages but the primary one is uh the age of the equipment uh and the availability of parts and and that's where the funding uh for the recapitalization uh from the one big beautiful bill act is going to be prioritized. We've obviously talked today in this hearing about, you know, what the percentage is that we're currently hitting on pedestrian and commercial vehicles um that are actually um being scanned at the port of entry.
▶ 1:53:45Do you believe you'll be able to hit the goals that you guys have laid out?
▶ 1:53:50So, we have increased the scan rates already to 13% for passenger vehicles and 37% for commercial vehicles. And the goal in uh uh 2026 is to have it at 40% for POVs and 70% uh for commercial vehicles. But we are uh very um uh you know welcome to continue keeping you updated as these deployments roll out and certainly let you know of any uh roadblocks or challenges that we hit that would prevent us from achieving that goal.
▶ 1:54:19Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 1:54:21Gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, for five minutes.
▶ 1:54:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the ranking member as well. Thank the witnesses for appearing today. And Miss Sabatino, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may please. Um, you are currently hiring persons who are working and in the interior of the country. Is that correct, ma'am?
▶ 1:54:55Uh well we do have people stationed at ports of entry, airports, land border ports, maritime, but we do have people surged to support uh immigration and customs enforcement and other partners.
▶ 1:55:06Okay. Would that include other partners include ICE?
▶ 1:55:12So you have persons who are actually in the field and they are with ICE when they are raiding. Well, let's not use that term. Excuse me. when they are making arrests.
▶ 1:55:27Uh we support in a number of ways. Uh we
▶ 1:55:29but is excuse me is making arrest one of the ways?
▶ 1:55:32Uh yes.
▶ 1:55:33Okay. Thank you. And um these persons who are doing this um have they been to the same extent that the ICE officers have been trained? I'm not personally familiar with the ICE training. I imagine it's comparable, but we do recurring uh use of force training uh for all of our armed law enforcement
▶ 1:56:00Well, if I told you that someone associated with Antifa is working um with these ICE officers who happens to be someone associated with your area. Uh would that concern you? I I I if I had more context I like working with like employed by
▶ 1:56:24well let's let's take the example of a prosecutor in Dallas Texas who had some affiliation with persons who are known to be dastards. Uh this person was a and uh seems to have an white supremacist account.
▶ 1:56:46uh makes or posts statements about Adolf um indicated we should make America white again, that sort of thing. Does that that sort of thing would offend you, wouldn't it, if you knew that some of your officers were were doing something like that?
▶ 1:57:02Well, we would certainly investigate any
▶ 1:57:05Good. And the best way to to deal with this kind of circumstance is to prevent it from ever happening. You wouldn't want a person who's doing these kinds of things within your ranks, right? If if the person is actually doing it,
▶ 1:57:20it's important uh to ensure
▶ 1:57:22I believe your answer would be yes or no. And anything less than a yes, I would assume is no. Uh so do you you you would not want a person in your ranks,
▶ 1:57:33Okay, good. So if you want to avoid it, the best way to prevent it from happening is to avoid it by good vetting from the outset. So what are you doing to vet people who are new to this work with ICE uh or new to you? What are you doing to vet them? How do you vet?
▶ 1:57:57Uh speaking specifically to Customs and Border Protection, uh we do uh background investigations. uh they're subject to uh polygraph examinations um and interviews
▶ 1:58:09and uh what does it take to trigger a professional responsibilities I I would have to defer you to our office of professional responsibilities on uh on how they uh triage allegations that are made, but investigations could be conducted by the inspector general, by uh OPR, or by uh local management. But again, the the nature of the allegation would determine that.
▶ 1:58:39But you do agree that you would not want someone who is um affiliated with some sort of white supremacist movement to be associated with your your um officers or in your core of officers, would you?
▶ 1:58:55I would agree in in theory.
▶ 1:58:57In theory. Well, that's fair enough. And I'm going to just ask you if you would do this uh please give some additional thought to how persons are being vetted. Uh and I may have more to say about it at a later time. Thank you. I yel back, Thank you. Uh I'd now like to recognize uh Miss Biggs from South Carolina for five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:59:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Trump administration has made great strides to secure our borders and to stem the tide of illegal immigrants. Encounters out at the southwest border are down from a high of over 300,000 under President I'm sorry.
▶ 1:59:47Um, encounters at the southwest's border are down from a high of over 300,000 under President um Biden to under 8,000 in July of 2025. This is a historic achievement, but now is not the time to let our guard down or to rest on our laurels.
▶ 2:00:08We ensure that our ports of entry are equipped with the proper technology and personnel needed to ensure the accomplishment of their Smugglers often go through ports of entry. Commercial containers and personal vehicles alike are modified to have spaces to hide ill illicit cargo such as cocaine and fentinil.
▶ 2:00:33Contraband cargo is often in locations that are not immediately obvious to the naked eye or even older detection technology. This is where modern NI technology is important. Vehicles and containers can be thoroughly examined without having to be torn apart.
▶ 2:00:53Full implementation of the newest and best non-intrusive inspection technology across all ports of entry will save time and lives by catching more elicit drugs and staying one step ahead of criminal elements. So um my question is to Miss Sabatino.
▶ 2:01:14What new and novel technologies is the C CBP innovation team investigating and fielding at ports of entry through initial research and pilot programs and how will these new technologies complement the existing fleet of NI Well, thank you for the question. Uh there's a number of emerging technologies that we are looking at.
▶ 2:01:39I think certainly um in complement to the uh image scans, the artificial intelligence, machine learning uh that's going to help identify anomalies, we have a number of algorithms uh deployed along the southwest border today that are in training that we hope will be able to actually peel back resources as uh the NI the algorithms will help uh officers streamline identifying those anomalies.
▶ 2:02:05I think in terms of other technology um in our um mail and express consignment facilities leveraging CT scanners complemented by artificial intelligence machine learning to help our officers again increase efficiency in the work uh that they do.
▶ 2:02:21um looking at um uh millimeter and through wave technology uh and working with vendors to help kind of build their uh repository uh because frankly we have uh the types of substances to help them identify and build uh the information uh kind of database.
▶ 2:02:37Okay, great. Thank you. Um, how can current and future implementations of NI technology be improved and streamlined to ensure that our borders remain secure in an evolving threat environment?
▶ 2:02:54Um, certainly with the deployment of the pre- primary technology which is the the technology that has um experienced delays and challenges in moving out because of the interference. We have a number of lessons learned uh including uh contracting an engineering firm uh to assist with those initial site surveys that frankly when they were first done were not substantive enough um and didn't address some really critical um engineering issues including like ground penetration uh with radar.
▶ 2:03:23Um but happy to provide um you know a more wholesome briefing on all of the different lessons learned, how we've incorporated them into our resource strategy moving forward and what the outcomes uh of uh those lessons learned and implementing have been.
▶ 2:03:39Okay, great. Thank you so much. I yield
▶ 2:03:42Gentle lady yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman for Virginia for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:03:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank you and ranking member Koreah for convening today's hearing and our witnesses for joining us. Last week, uh, I and 27 other members of the House visited Minnesota and we saw firsthand the negative impacts of the mass deportation, the mass destruction machine that the Trump administration has assemble assembled.
▶ 2:04:15American and our law-abiding immigrant neighbors are terrified. Businesses and schools in Minnesota are American citizens again are staying home because they don't want to be the next person pulled through the streets, put in a chokeold, or god forbid fatally shot by a federal agent, maybe ICE, maybe CBP, dressed and armed as if they're in a war zone.
▶ 2:04:45reported this week that local law enforcement leaders in St. Paul and Minnesota have shared that their officers, offduty officers, have been stopped and detained and harassed by ICE.
▶ 2:05:03The masked and in many cases minimally trained officers have dragged pregnant mothers, pepper-sprayed children, place their knees on the necks of American citizens. And recently they detained a five-year-old, a five-year-old. And then used that five-year-old. You might not be able to see it. This is him.
▶ 2:05:32This is Liam Ramos, 5 years old. Detained him, used him as bait to lure his family members out of their home. Then they shipped him to a detention facility a thousand miles away, 5 years old. In city after city, CBP commander Greg Bavino has strutdded around spreading terror.
▶ 2:06:03LA, Chicago, Charlotte, New Orleans, Minneapolis. This Congress must take immediate action to rein in the outrageous abuses we're seeing by ICE and CBP officers. We need to end the masking, end the secret police, require use of force standards and enforce them and withdraw the thousands of federal agents from Minnesota.
▶ 2:06:33And Secretary Gnome and the leadership of these agencies must be held accountable for the egregious abuses that we've seen. Miss Sabatino, I have a 5-year-old. I dropped him off at preschool this morning. I won't ask you if you have children. It's not my business, not the committee's business. You have had an honorable career in law enforcement. You're highly trained.
▶ 2:07:03You've been a leader in your field. I just want to ask you a simple question. Were you ever trained to use a 5-year-old in a law enforcement operation in the way that Liam Ramos was used? Were you ever trained to use a 5-year-old as bait to get his family members to open the door? Were you trained to do that? And would you countenance one of your officers doing
▶ 2:07:30I'm not familiar with that.
▶ 2:07:31I'm not asking you about this situation. I'm saying, were you trained and would you allow a child to be used in a law enforcement operation? Would you allow your officers to do it?
▶ 2:07:41Uh, I'm not familiar with that case. It's not part of our training.
▶ 2:07:47What would you do if one of your officers at a port of entry perhaps did that, used a five-year-old to get their parents or a family member to open their car ve car door? What would you do to one of those officers if they used a child in a law enforcement operation like that?
▶ 2:08:07Uh any allegation of um unprofessional behavior or use of force uh would be investigated by the appropriate uh third I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:08:20Uh the gentleman yields back. Uh at this point, uh we would like to do a second round of questioning, but um after consulting with Mr. Koreah, we'd like to do a lightning round. So not five minutes of questioning but three. So we'd like for all members to have an additional three minutes to ask questions. If there are other members who have not come in, they will also be in included in the queue uh but would like to explore this just a little bit further. So, uh, if we could set the clock at 3 minutes.
▶ 2:08:50And so, Miss Sabatino, uh, my question will just be, you know, we've heard testimony that, uh, there will be at least at certain ports of entry, uh, there will be some period of time before we're able to get fixed permanent scanners there at those locations. And we know that there's infrastructure issues, there's interference issues. Uh, we've talked about some of the challenges uh, that CBP faces.
▶ 2:09:14And so I guess my question is uh in the interim uh what what is the plan what is the possibility again to use mobile scanners, handheld scanners uh so that we will have coverage at those ports of entry and again the the coverage uh may not be to the same level. We may not be able to screen as many vehicles as we would like.
▶ 2:09:37Uh but uh is there a plan within CBP to use those handheld scanners, those mobile scanners to supplement some of the deficiencies that we may see particularly at the nine port ports of entry that Miss Benedict has um made us aware of?
▶ 2:09:55Yes, we're going to continue to use um all of the technology that's available to us as well as additional uh technology that we'll be procuring uh with funding from the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. Um, and that's in complement to also our K9 assets, our targeting models, and the intelligence available to us.
▶ 2:10:12Yeah. And I do want to say, look, you've got some incredible men and women who work at the ports of entry. Uh, they do a great job of of identifying uh individuals for secondary screening. Uh, y'all do an amazing job of stopping a large number of narcotics that come across.
▶ 2:10:29Uh but we want to make sure through the use of artificial intelligence, through the use of technology, uh that we are making those uh agents more efficient, more effective uh and that we're doing everything that we can on behalf of the American public to stop uh the flow of drugs coming into the country. So please when you return uh please tell the men and women that you serve with uh that we have great respect for the work that they do uh and we thank them for uh their commitment and dedication uh to serving this great nation.
▶ 2:10:59Uh with that I would yield uh three minutes to the ranking member Mr.
▶ 2:11:05Thank you again Miss Sabatino and Miss Benedict. Thank you for being here today. Uh let me say that I know Sonic Cedro quite well. I've traveled that place. I've been with you with your officers. 60 to 70% 60 to 70% of all the fentinel coming into the United States goes through Sanicedro. Yet, we're not scheduled to put any of these high-tech scanners there. Not scheduled to even begin to plan to put them there.
▶ 2:11:35So, it becomes extra critical to have the personnel there. Uh, Miss Sabatino, I kind of asked you, are you fully I'll ask it again. Are you fully
▶ 2:11:49Can provide you what our target on board number is as a followup. Uh, specifically for Sanro, but we're actively hiring 5,000 officers.
▶ 2:11:57We've been trying to hire thousands of officers for years, and as you know, the background checks are very tough. Polygraph tests are almost impossible to pass. They're tougher than for the folks applying for the FBI. It's very hard to hire people.
▶ 2:12:16And this is my concern when you have officers at the border stopping deployed into the interior of the It concerns me we're not doing the job of protecting Americans from fentinel. These officers are now deployed into my Southern California is the manufacturing capital of the United States. Do a lot of economic activity. A lot of these immigrants are the workers there. So I look at this as a lose-lose policy.
▶ 2:12:47We're not doing the best we can to stop the fentinel and we're missing out on common sense economic activity, economic growth that we have in Southern California. That is that is done by these immigrants. Um, I'm not going to belabor this issue, but what I would like to do, I'm going to submit some questions to you in writing, but essentially I want to know how many folks are you down, how many open slots do you have? Is this something that just happened?
▶ 2:13:17You you use the words to describe that this is something that you do on a regular basis, which is redeploy officers off the border to the interior of the country. I'd like to have the data from the last 5 years. Have you really deployed them? How many numbers over the last five years? Because I believe my citizens, American citizens, want to make sure that fentinel is not getting into this Again, I've been to Sanro.
▶ 2:13:47I've spoken to your folks over there. Wonderful individuals that have these skills. I don't know how they do it. Six cents, but they can figure out where this fentinel is at when you transfer them to somewhere in the US. They're not doing their job that we hired them to do. Thank you very much. I look forward to getting you to data from you. Thank you.
▶ 2:14:10Jim yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona.
▶ 2:14:15Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman. Um, obviously my colleagues on the other side of the aisle uh continue to attack uh Homeland Security ICE agents. Their newest attack is ICE just detained a 5-year-old child. Right. We keep hearing that on the panel today. It's all over social media. That would be atrocious if true, but it's not. And this is exactly what Homeland Security put out officially.
▶ 2:14:44ICE did not target a child. The child was abandoned. On January 20th, ICE conducted a targeted operation to arrest Adrien Alexander Kjo Aras, an illegal alien from Ecuador, who was released into the US by the Biden administration. As agents approached the driver, Adrien Alexander Cornero Areas fled on foot, abandoning his child.
▶ 2:15:13For the child's safety, one of our ICE officers remained with the child while the other officers apprehended Kjo Areas. Parents are asked if they want to be removed with their children or ICE will place them place their children with a safe person that the parent designates. This is consistent with past administrations immigration enforcement.
▶ 2:15:37Parents can take control of their departure and receive a free flight and $2,600 with the CBP Home app. By using the CBP Home app, illegal aliens reserve the chance to come back the right and legal way. I just wanted to clarify that with all the outrage on on the left and, you know, um trying to generate, you know, hysteria in in these chambers right now.
▶ 2:16:07That's not the truth of what happened. And I'm glad that um officials at ICE made sure that uh the real story was made public. Gentleman, the American people, thank you and I yield back.
▶ 2:16:19Gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes a gentleman from Virginia. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. I'm okay. Actually, I'll yield to the ranking
▶ 2:16:28Thank you very much. And to my colleague from Arizona, um you make an interesting point, which is what are exactly the facts because it's not only one 5-year-old. I' I've heard a number of stories about young individuals being left um when their parents are apprehended.
▶ 2:16:49um some with orders of deportation, others essentially picked up randomly off the streets and uh children left to their own. Uh I would welcome the opportunity with my colleague to do an investigation to study what exactly is the truth. And as you've said, sir, this has been an issue for a number of administrations, not just one. And I say to do a study because we want to have the truth somewhere. the truth is theirs probably in the middle somewhere.
▶ 2:17:19But we all have an interest in making sure children are taken care of. So I'd like to look under the hood, so to speak, and look at the facts and see what the policy is when a child's parents are apprehended because that child is an American citizen most likely. And so I think we do need to look at this issue a lot closer. Thank you very much. reclaiming my time. I appreciate the gentleman's uh comments.
▶ 2:17:47What he didn't address and what the DHS statement didn't address is a question I posed to Miss Sabatino, and that's the use of a 5-year-old child in a law enforcement, immigration enforcement operation. That doesn't seem to be in dispute whether the agents on the ground use that child to ring the doorbell to lure his family members who were inside the home out.
▶ 2:18:17There should be an impartial investigation of that and the hundreds of other allegations of abuses, violations of policy from ICE and Miss Sabatino's here today, CBP officers.
▶ 2:18:37The American people don't trust that this administration and this secretary of homeland security will conduct that kind of fair and impartial investigation in the case of Liam Ramos or others. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:18:53Gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes a gentleman for Texas for three minutes.
▶ 2:18:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I thank you and the ranking member and the witnesses. Um, Miss Sabertino, you and I were talking earlier about unacceptable character information being reported, and I think we concluded that it can be reported to your office of professional responsibility. Is that correct?
▶ 2:19:19And uh, can anyone report to this office, Miss Eatino?
▶ 2:19:23I believe there's a publicly available number and email.
▶ 2:19:26And does anyone include you, ma'am? If I could report allegations.
▶ 2:19:33Does anyone include you? When I say anyone? Yes.
▶ 2:19:37Okay. Now, let's let's talk about criminal activity. Is a similar circumstance available for persons who are aware of something that may be criminal in nature.
▶ 2:19:49we had allegations of criminal behavior, yes, that would be called in. And um do you recall that Miss um Renee u Nicole Good uh was shot by an officer?
▶ 2:20:06I did see the media attention to it.
▶ 2:20:09And has that been reported to the Office of Professional Responsibility?
▶ 2:20:15Uh I think because the agent that was involved would be uh was with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. I'm I'm not aware of any specific call into either our or ISIS's office of professional responsibility
▶ 2:20:28but uh there is an office of professional responsibility for these kinds of things. It's sort of internal Is that correct?
▶ 2:20:40And you have the the uh ability to report these things, do you not?
▶ 2:20:48Everyone in the public can report.
▶ 2:20:50Does everyone include you? Yes.
▶ 2:20:52So, you have the ability to report, do you not?
▶ 2:20:55If I believe that there was criminal activity or
▶ 2:20:57did you you said you saw video uh there was statements made that by the wife of Miss Good that we had whistles, they had
▶ 2:21:08You saw what happened. You You can report this as something that should be investigated by the Office of Professional Responsibility, can't you? Um, I don't think it would be appropriate for me as I was not there and I saw clips of video.
▶ 2:21:24Excuse me. Excuse me. The question is if you wanted to, you could, couldn't you?
▶ 2:21:32Anyone who believes that there's
▶ 2:21:34Are you Are you a part of the anyone?
▶ 2:21:37So, you can report it. How can you, ma'am, see what happened on that video and not report it to the Office of Professional Responsibility? Just ask them to look into it. This woman lost her life and not no investigation is said to be taking place and you won't report it to the office of professional.
▶ 2:22:01Gentleman's time is expired.
▶ 2:22:02I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 2:22:05I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today and I'd like to thank the members for their participation this hearing. Members of the subcommittee may have additional question for the witnesses and we would ask the witnesses to respond in writing pursuant to committee rule 7E. This hearing and the record for the hearing will the record for this hearing will be held open for 10 days. Without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank