▶ 0:18:59All right. Good morning. The subcommittee will come to order. Uh starting out, I want to make sure that we stipulate that the chair may declare recess at any time, which we already know we will need to utilize. I want to welcome the witnesses here today to discuss the chapter 35 issues that have plagued VA education benefits for the last several months. And uh while I am not the chairman of this specific subcommittee, I am the chairman of the subcommittee on technology modernization as well as a member of this subcommittee. And a top priority of mine is ensuring VA's technology works for veterans.
▶ 0:19:29So there's significant overlap with what we are talking about today. The VA of course was created to provide world-class services to the veterans that they serve and that our country owes a debt of gratitude to. Unfortunately, VA has fallen short of providing these services and that promise to veterans and their families through delays in processing a subset of education benefits. This hearing today will review how payment failures in the Department of Veteran Affairs digital GI Bill program originated.
▶ 0:19:56Since August, estimates are up to 75,000 children or spouses of a veteran who has died, is missing, or have a permanent and total service connected disability paid through the dependence education assistance program have had a delay in payments. This is not money that goes to the institution like the post 911 GI Bill.
▶ 0:20:16Instead, the benefit goes directly to the student who then uses it to pay the institution and cover their Because of the payment delays, this subcommittee has heard horror stories about students not being able to make ends meet because of VA's mistake and jeopardized their enrollment in their college education. Well, I recognize that the situation was made worse by the government shutdown. VA has failed students by not paying them on time and refusing to communicate with the stakeholders along the way.
▶ 0:20:44This hearing today isn't about politics or partisan differences and games. It's about getting to the bottom of how this decision was made, who made the decision, who's at fault, and how we can move forward appropriately so that we can have proper authentication for chapter 35 benefit cases. Mr. Develin, while you have only been at the VA a few months, and Mr. You and Mr. Smith have overseen this data reconciliation, thousands of claims that were not processed on time because of that, I expect the days of the status quo to end.
▶ 0:21:14and the VA is holding those responsible for this failure accountable because the subcommittee plans to exercise that responsibility today. We will also examine how many students utilizing VA education programs were impacted. These delays have a realworld impact for dependent education assistance and post 911 GI Bill participants. Military connected students shouldn't be put in financial hardship due to VA's technology and processes falling short on delivering for our veterans.
▶ 0:21:43While I'm new to Congress, I understand that this is at least the fourth time since the post 911 GI Bill was implemented that significant payment delays because of IT issues have impacted checks going out to veterans and other beneficiaries. If you're a student in my district or anywhere else in this country and you are facing delays in education uh payments from VA, please contact my office or this subcommittee to help work through your issues.
▶ 0:22:11My door is always open to help fellow veterans and we have to make sure we're working through this backlog. I expect this to be a productive hearing today. Hope to understand who is at fault for this crisis and who at VA will be taking accountability so that we can ensure this doesn't happen again. And I'll yield to the ranking member for his opening remarks as well.
▶ 0:22:29Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for pinch hitting uh with this subcommittee today. And thank you to our witnesses for joining. This is a critically overdue hearing today. And in all my years on this subcommittee, I've never felt as frustrated as I do at this moment. And one of the points of frustration is the request that I've made directly uh to expect a Senate confirmed appointee to testify today, someone who can provide answers but also take responsibility for the failure to pay out Chapter 35 benefits on time. We don't have that.
▶ 0:23:00While I recognize that VBA doesn't have a confirmed under secretary, it's abundantly clear from VA stonewalling to multiple congressional inquiries and its written testimony that this administration has no intention of taking responsibility and instead is trying to shift our attention and the blame onto the previous administration. Our veterans and VA beneficiaries deserve a lot better. Forget about pointing fingers. VA responsibility is to serve veterans.
▶ 0:23:24When mistakes or unexpected developments occur, VA also has a responsibility to communicate with those same veterans. And veterans expect VA to work with Congress to solve the problem. As I've always said on this subcommittee, congressional oversight is important regardless of who is in the White House. Which is why, Mr. Chairman, we and our veterans have come to expect public and involved supervision of what VA is doing or not doing, no matter which administration is in charge. We have not had that.
▶ 0:23:50In fact, in all my years on this committee, I've never experienced this level of stonewalling before. The Trump administration and its VA have deliberately failed to communicate with Congress and more importantly, the affected beneficiaries as they try to hide the mess that's been months in the making. VA has issued little to no public acknowledgement for months about the 75,000 beneficiaries who whose benefits have been delayed. There have been min minimal communications for months to schools and beneficiaries themselves.
▶ 0:24:18And there's been zero communication with Congress, unless you can count the letter that we received back that didn't answer our questions at 5:45 yesterday. Three letters that were sent from members of this committee that went unanswered for a month and a half. In fact, VA officials refused to formally acknowledge this problem until a briefing on December 5th. That's December 5th. VA knew in September that it had a problem because they sent requirements to Accenture to try to address the backlog. It took four months between this problem being identified and Congress being updated.
▶ 0:24:48Four months during which tens of thousands of beneficiaries were left without any information. There's just no excuse for an egregious lack of communication around an issue that affects so many veterans. Any reasonable person would conclude that a deliberate political decision was made to cut off communications with Congress and veterans to avoid accountability and to hide the problem. VA continues to refer to the problem simply as a tech issue or a glitch. yet contradicts itself in written testimony.
▶ 0:25:16Now, I'm glad that the ranking member of the TechMod subcommittee, Miss Bazinski, could join us today along with Mr. Barrett uh to explore that issue. A glitch implies a malfunction. There was no glitch. The software worked as expected. VA's planning factors and assumptions were wrong. VA failed to validate the assumptions and failed to react when things did not go as planned. Now, the real glitch, the real malfunction here is VA's unprecedented failure to communicate with beneficiaries, the public, and Congress.
▶ 0:25:43This administration and its VA can try to misdirect our attention by blaming the previous administration. But let's do a quick review. The decision to conduct data reconciliation by hand in 2024 was due to VA cultural distrust of automation and the accuracy of the information in the databases. This has not changed between administrations. Now, regardless of how we got here, Secretary Collins, VA was in charge in August when things began to spiral and throughout the last few months of ignoring veteran and congressional inquiries.
▶ 0:26:10For example, the decision to shift to automate some of the claims reconciliation and processing only occurred once VA was laid on 75,000 claims and was looking for any possible help. So regardless of what the previous administration set forth, VA could and should have tested the data reconciliation process to validate the assumptions on the time that it would take. June or July would have been great uh for that to occur. The Trump VA can point to planning that took place in December 2024, but they came in and continued that plan.
▶ 0:26:39The absence of decision-making or oversight for 9 months is just as damning as the original planning. VA failed to follow guidance from the White House on who to furlow during the government shutdown. Government employees working on funded programs like these mandatory VA education benefits were uh direct to work. Yet the information technology staff needed to test and field the automation updates were furoughed and not brought back until the day before the shutdown ended.
▶ 0:27:03Worst of all, this administration made the decision not to communicate with veterans, families, and survivors impacted for 4 months. People in our districts were in the dark about what was going on and why their benefits were not getting paid. One of my constituents from Manchester contacted her office and said, quote, "Due to an error with the VA benefit system, I have not received my education benefits so far this semester. The call-in line that I and the University of New Hampshire Veteran Center staff used to resolve such issues has been deactivated for the duration of the shutdown, leaving me dead in the water.
▶ 0:27:33My wife's salary has so far covered our rent and food, but we're at risk of losing child care for my son due to non-payment, as well as having to miss car payments." End quote. The financial stress put on him and his family is evident. It's also unacceptable. We've been elected to advocate on behalf of our constituents, yet VA refuses to do its most basic job and ignores our inquiries for months. I think we all agree that veterans and their families and their survivors deserve so much better.
▶ 0:27:59And we deserve bipartisan advocacy on their behalf when government fails to uphold its promise and deliver the benefits they've earned. The only question is, will we in Congress hold the administration, like any other administration, responsible for fulfilling that promise? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:28:14Thank you, Ranking Member Papis. Uh, in accordance with committee rules, I ask unanimous consent that Representative Bazinski from Illinois be permitted to participate in today's subcommittee hearing. And without objection, it is so ordered. With that, we are going to move on to our witnesses. Um, our first witness is Miss Margarita Develin, acting principal deputy under secretary for benefits, Veteran Benefits Administration at the Department of Veteran Affairs. Did I get that all correct? It's a lot to put on a business card. Um, accompanying Miss Develin is Mr.
▶ 0:28:42Kenneth Smith, executive director at Education Services, Veteran Benefits Administration at the Department of Veteran Affairs. And our third witness is Mr. Justin Park, managing director, digital GI Bill program manager for Accenture Federal Services. Thank you all for being here. I ask the witnesses, our first panel to please stand and raise your right hand. [clears throat] Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the Thank you.
▶ 0:29:10And let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Miss Develin, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veteran Affairs.
▶ 0:29:18Thank you, Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Pepis, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I'm joined by Mr. Kenneth Smith, executive director for education service. I appreciate the chance to speak candidly about the challenges we face with the implementation of release 8 of the digital GI Bill platform, particularly its impact on chapter 35 education benefits.
▶ 0:29:40In August 2025, VA completed a major milestone, the final transition from our 50-year-old legacy benefits delivery network or BDN to the modern modern digital GI Bill system. This release migrated beneficiaries and payments for chapters 35, 30, and 160. The core migration was technically successful. However, there were design challenges. Specifically, a 2024 decision required manual reconciliation of claims for beneficiaries converted from BDN.
▶ 0:30:08This was intended to reduce improper payments, but in practice, it dramatically increased processing time. Unfortunately, the timing of the release driven by the need to decommission BDN before the end of the fiscal year meant we could not delay implementation to address the issue. Chapter 35 students were most severely impacted. While they represent about 24% of GI Bill beneficiaries, they made up the majority of pending claims.
▶ 0:30:33VA could not delay GGIB release date because of the need to decommission BDN by the end of the fiscal year. This enabled automation and saved approximately $25 million. Delays in system readiness, specifically the inability to support chapter 35 until the end of March based on previous decisions to change the DGIB program schedule resulted in a compressed testing period for chapter 35 and required VA to process claims in BDN that then required conversion in August.
▶ 0:31:01The time frame limited the ability to mitigate issues in advance and reduce the volume of claims requiring manual reconciliation. Several factors compounded those delays. First, the manual reconciliation requirement was a business decision, not a technical failure, but it more than doubled the time needed to process many claims. Second, testing was compressed due to delays in partner system readiness and the looming BDN shutdown. Third, a lack of enterprise governance in 2024 meant critical decisions weren't elevated for broader risk assessment.
▶ 0:31:31And finally, we saw a 19% surge in chapter 35 claims, likely linked to increased disability decisions following the PAC Act. When the system went live in August, we quickly identified missing functionality in the verify my enrollment tool for chapter 35 students. We waved the attendance verification requirement to ensure students could still receive payments and communicated this broadly to students, schools, and Congress. We also faced challenges during the lapse in appropriations under our contingency plan.
▶ 0:32:00education call center staff were furoughed because they do not establish protective dates for claims of entitlement and payment. While this was consistent with our crit criteria for protecting life and property that has been in place since 2013, we recognize the impact this had on students and schools trying to get information. We're conducting an afteraction review to assess which positions should be considered essential in future contingency planning. To mitigate the impact of the delays, we took several steps.
▶ 0:32:28We validated automation rules to speed up processing where reconciliation wasn't needed. We directed claims processors to trust prior entitlement calculations to reduce manual work. We developed and tested an automation solution to handle reconciliations. And although the lapse in appropriations delayed its deployment, we launched it on November 15th. It resolved issues for over 5,000 students and enabled more than 1,100 payments.
▶ 0:32:52And finally, we recalled furled staff, streamlining streamlining policies to reduce the burden on frontline processors and re-implemented overtime once the appropriations bill was signed into law. Today, our automation rules can now process enrollments for returning chapter 35 students on the same day. We continue to wave the verification requirement and are working on a change management strategy to ensure students update their contact information for the most convenient verification experience. Looking ahead, we've taken several key steps to prevent such reoccurrence.
▶ 0:33:22We've strengthened executive governance with clear accountability at all levels. We've reaffirmed an automation first strategy, reserving manual work for exceptions only. And we're enhancing change management, ensuring better field engagement, and end-to-end planning. I'll close by saying that while the transition to DGIB is a major step forward, the challenges of release 8 have underscored the need for strong governance, strategic alignment, and proactive risk management. We're committed to learning from this experience and ensuring our systems better serve veterans and their families.
▶ 0:33:50Thank you for your oversight and support and I welcome your
▶ 0:33:56Thank you uh Miss Develin. The written statement of Mr. Develin will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. Park, you are now recognized for five minutes over your testimony on behalf of Accenture Federal Services.
▶ 0:34:08Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Papis, members of the subcommittee on economic opportunity, thank you for inviting me to testify at today's hearing. I am Justin Park, a managing director of Accenture Federal Services and a member of the Accenture Federal leadership team. I am the program manager of the digital GI Bill engagement, leading the implementation and operations of Accenture Federal DGIB systems.
▶ 0:34:32I'm honored to be here today and to serve veterans and their families in my role on the DGIB program.
▶ 0:34:39Since 2021, through the work on DGIB, Accenture has supported VA's efforts to make it faster and easier for veterans to access and reliably receive education benefits. These education benefits enable veterans to take better care of themselves and their families and to pursue life-changing postservice goals and aspirations. The education benefits provided by VA have real impact.
▶ 0:35:04Compared with a high school diploma holder, a veteran with a college degree can earn an average of 84% more. That's 1.2 million more over their lifetime. Since we met last year, we have delivered on our commitment to successfully replace VA's nearly 50-year-old BDN mainframe with our state-of-the-art cloud-based claims processing platform.
▶ 0:35:25This technology improves VA's operational resilience and for the first time in GI Bill's 80-year history has enabled fully automated processing of chapter 33 eligibility and chapter 35 claims. Through our DGIB automation efforts with VA, more than 55% of all education claims, that's all chapters, all claim types, are processed same day, the vast majority of these in seconds.
▶ 0:35:51To date, DGIB has processed over 16 million claims, delivering more than 43 billion in veteran benefits to 2.3 million unique beneficiaries. We understand and share the committee's concerns about the Chapter 35 claim backlog.
▶ 0:36:08Delays, delayed payments are We recognize the significant impact on veterans and their families and we have been working tirelessly with the VA to help reduce the backlog and quickly get payments into the hands of eligible There have been inaccurate reports of a system glitch causing the chapter 35 backlog. These reports are not true. The system is working as required.
▶ 0:36:36That said, there are many contributing factors to the backlog, but there are two key drivers. First, the number of unique Chapter 35 uh students increased by 19% year-on-year, increasing veteran claim examiner or VCE workload.
▶ 0:36:52Second, per requirement uh a requirement that VA decided in 2024, DGIB was designed to require a one-time manual validation or reconciliation of BDN mainframe data for all claimants migrated and this takes VCE time.
▶ 0:37:10Since December 2024 and before the manual data reconciliation was required, DGIB successfully processed tens of thousands of non-chapter 33 claims for new beneficiaries and millions of claims overall. Throughout this time, DGIB continued to work as required.
▶ 0:37:28When it was identified that VCEs were unable to keep up with the claim workload, we worked closely with VA to identify solutions that automate a portion of the manual uh data rec validation and reconciliation to decrease the backlog. To give you additional details, on September 23rd, VA completed and approved new requirements for this automation and we developed the system enhancements shortly after.
▶ 0:37:53VA completed the user acceptance testing and approved the enhancements and we deployed the new automation to production on November 15th. Since that deployment, we have automatically reconciled data for approximately 88,000 claims uh greatly reducing the backlog. We remain focused on delivering on the promise made to veterans. With the mainframe retired, we have completed all required major technical modernization.
▶ 0:38:22VA finally has the technology platform in DGIB that allows it to take full advantage of these automations. Since the inception of DGIB in 2021, we have improved access to education benefits and utilization has increased with 42% more requests for eligibility, generating billions of dollars in economic activity and creating new jobs.
▶ 0:38:47We continue to work with VA to increase automation and deliver education benefits faster, easier, and more reliably, which is what our veterans have earned and deserve. Thank you. look forward to your
▶ 0:39:01Thank you, Mr. Park. The written statement of Mr. Park will entered into the hearing record and we will now move on to uh questions from committee members. Um and we will each have five minutes in which to ask our questions. Uh I will start by recognizing myself for five minutes. Um so I want to get kind of an idea. Um basically the the timeline under which this takes place. The first step as I understand it is the certificate of eligibility. Is that correct?
▶ 0:39:29I guess um any of you on the panel um I guess from the technical side Mr. Park would be more familiar but from the from the process side perhaps the VA is
▶ 0:39:40correct. A certificate of eligibility establishes the eligibility to the program benefit
▶ 0:39:44and that's the very first step in this
▶ 0:39:46It is.
▶ 0:39:47And where was the manual step? Was it on the certificate of eligibility or was it later in that process that it was determined to be a manual verification?
▶ 0:39:56It was later in that process. It was uh converting claims that were previously processed in BDN over to the new system.
▶ 0:40:03Okay. So, would this be students who were previously enrolled? So, not a brand new um not a brand new enrollment.
▶ 0:40:10That's correct.
▶ 0:40:11So, a brand new enrollment would be automated through the new system from the beginning. But those that were continuation, you know, following on another semester or just adding or reducing your class load would be done manually in that first trunch.
▶ 0:40:25That's correct.
▶ 0:40:26And who at VA, I understand this took place in 2024 that it was the decision made to do that manually. Is that
▶ 0:40:34That's correct.
▶ 0:40:35And who at VA made that decision?
▶ 0:40:37Uh, I wasn't at VA at the time, so I can't say at which level the decision was made.
▶ 0:40:42Okay. Mr. Park, were you in your position working this at that point?
▶ 0:40:48I I was in in the position as the program manager. I was not in the rooms where the decision was made, but I I am aware of the decision. Yes.
▶ 0:40:57Did Accenture offer advice or cander to VA as to the potential uh risk of making that a manual process and the delays that would likely follow? our our position in general as you you heard from my testimony is that we believe automation is the right answer whenever possible. U as you heard from VA uh there is an automation uh first approach that is being taken uh going forward.
▶ 0:41:22Uh at the time as I uh understand from those discussions there was a balance that VA was making between risks of mainframe data and uh the veteran claim examiner uh effort that would be needed. Um, as I understand at the time in those rooms, the uh statement was made that the VCAs could handle that workload.
▶ 0:41:44Okay. That was the VA's position that the VC, the veteran claim examiners would have the capacity to be able to do
▶ 0:41:50That is correct.
▶ 0:41:51Did Accenture offer um feed, you know, basically try and encourage the VA against that or was it more they're the client and they get to make that decision? Uh there there are healthy debates. Um you know there's no very diplomatic no yeah no right answer. Um you know in this case obviously we we don't run the mainframe so we could not uh speak to uh the risk specifically.
▶ 0:42:15Um but as you've heard this this new leadership team understands the importance of automation and I think if we were to uh go back and and have that discussion there would have been a different answer.
▶ 0:42:26Okay. And then coming into 2025, VA has the existing protocol for the manual process that is set in place. At what point did it become apparent to VA that this was going to present a problem and the VCs were not in a position to be able to swiftly move through them as they had hoped when they made the
▶ 0:42:45Um I I will ask Mr. Smith to speak to the timeline.
▶ 0:42:50Thank you for the question. Um so the conversion happened on August 4th. Uh initially our focus
▶ 0:42:562025 correct
▶ 0:42:572025. Initially our focus was on uh the uh the lack of that verification of enrollment and that was the problem that we solved. Uh by September we were seeing or hearing anecdotal um stories from claims processors that this reconciliation process was not taking minutes as originally anticipated but rather hours.
▶ 0:43:19And we immediately started putting procedures in place to streamline and essentially trust the data that's coming out of our 50-year-old system that's been used to pay countless numbers of chapter 35 students. And then we began to build an automation solution to try to get these uh claim R or reconciliations completed as quickly as possible.
▶ 0:43:40So it was really around the time that um students were reenrolling in college. Now, these are all students who'd previously been enrolled and they were just continuing their education and it was at that moment that they were enrolling into the fall semester and we get the surge of of enrollment requests that that all took place.
▶ 0:44:00That's correct. It was very much real
▶ 0:44:02Okay. And VA didn't anticipate or do a dry run of how long it would take to process these manually to get an assessment of what that would look like and why that would be problematic. I don't recall any sort of dry run on the clayar process. I
▶ 0:44:17we may have done some user acceptance testing on it, but I
▶ 0:44:20my uh my time's expired anyway, but um I will yield to the ranking member and we can maybe pick it up uh on the next round. Thank you.
▶ 0:44:27Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I ask unanimous consent to be able to uh submit to the um hearing record three letters that were sent by ranking members Takano, Blumenthal, Bazinski, and myself uh over the course of October, November, and December. Thank you, Miss Develin. These VA has received these letters. Uh Mr. Smith testified at our last hearing on December 2nd that education services passed up responses uh to these letters uh at least to the first two.
▶ 0:44:53Last night at 5:45, we received a letter in response that frankly didn't answer many of the core questions that were asked in these letters. I also know that the secretary is well aware of the issue because ranking member Tano has spoken to uh directly on a couple of occasions in October and November. So, it would have been great to have the um information that we requested uh in full before this hearing. And I find it hard to accept that um anything other than the administration is deliberately ignoring our outreach and trying to either hide or avoid addressing this issue.
▶ 0:45:23The secretary missed multiple deadlines to get us that information and VA's also failed to communicate directly to beneficiaries and to the general public. So, Miss Develin, why is that? Were you, Mr. Smith directed not to talk to Congress and not to respond uh in writing to our requests.
▶ 0:45:40No sir, thank you for the question. We were not directed. So
▶ 0:45:43well, so what is responsible for the delay then?
▶ 0:45:46Um we apologize for the delay. We we did work on getting those responses and I understand that they were delinquent and we apologize for the delay.
▶ 0:45:55I can't speak to the process delays that resulted in it taking so long and I can only just share my apology for that.
▶ 0:46:01So do you appreciate what we heard from Mr. Smith that um responses were being formal formulated and passed up and is there a reason why this information wasn't communicated to Congress?
▶ 0:46:11The process of developing a response involves detailed reviews of data because there was there were a lot of questions with those and we needed to make sure the data was accurate. There were there were concurrence processes um that went into place before the letter could be could be submitted.
▶ 0:46:26I hope you can see the problem here.
▶ 0:46:27I do. where we're totally in the dark on this trying to find breadcrumbs uh whether it's through VSOs or through veterans themselves that we represent that are reaching out to our offices and we're just trying to get answers and get information and I think we're owed that on behalf of the American people. Um so who is the approval authority to send out information to beneficiaries and to Congress and why have they limited it so drastically in this instance?
▶ 0:46:54It was not our intent to limit communication to veterans. um other beneficiaries or to Congress. Um we did provide some briefings to the four corners of of the Hill and and we did send out some communications to students. Unfortunately, we didn't realize the magnitude of the problem and how significant it would be before the before the shutdown happened and during the lapse in a
▶ 0:47:16who makes the call on that though.
▶ 0:47:18We determine the content of the communications that need to go out to beneficiaries and to and to stakeholders. Um and then there is a departmental process for review and concurrence of those and issuing those
▶ 0:47:31So you can't give us a name or a put a finer point on that on who we should be talking to with respect to the lack of communication over four months.
▶ 0:47:40I would say it's a it's a joint effort between VBA um I'm the highest executive at VBA so I would be the last person who sees anything before it goes out and then again at the department there's uh review and approval processes. I appreciate the position you're in, but someone's got to take responsibility for this, which is why we were asking for a Senate confirmed appointee to be here at this hearing today. Now, you referenced um the briefing. Uh there was one that was scheduled for October 1st. It was cancelled.
▶ 0:48:07Um and during the government shutdown, Congress received only form responses when trying to contact VA for information or to conduct case work for constituents suffering from some of the financial hardship that I referenced in my opening statement. So were you VA education services or VA's congressional liaison directed not to communicate with
▶ 0:48:25We were bound by requirements of what we can and cannot do during a lapse in appropriations. But I will say we took inquiries directly from beneficiaries from VSOs and from schools. I got emails directly. So did Mr. Smith and when there was a financial concern also through ASKVA. We were monitoring those and if there was an a financial emergency we were handling that situation immediately and communicating with those beneficiaries.
▶ 0:48:48So, and I have limited time here, but in terms of the plan of furlowing staff, um, who approved the plan and why was it out of line with the guidance that the White House had actually issued?
▶ 0:49:01The contingency plan the VA had was in alignment with prior contingency plans for which organiz which types of work could be considered accepted and which types of work had to be furled. and who had the signature authority required to bring back the user acceptance testing group from furlow um which was a key issue with respect to the digital GI benefit uh update.
▶ 0:49:24We worked on that as something new that we hadn't dealt with before in VA and worked with our attorneys to get clearance on that process.
▶ 0:49:31Well, I've got a number of additional questions. Again, incredibly frustrated with the way that Congress has been stonewalled here. Um, we and the American people and the veteran community deserves answers and I yield
▶ 0:49:44Thank you, Ranking Member Papis. Uh, recognize Representative Hammed for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now, we are here today because the VA has failed, plain and simple. The title of this hearing is quote detrimental delays. But let's call it for what it really is, a breach of contract with the men and women who served this country and the families who supported them. Now, I sit here as a veteran who knows firsthand how important these benefits are. Now, the GI Bill isn't a handout. It's earned.
▶ 0:50:13And for the survivors and dependents relying on Chapter 35, the families of our fallen and disabled, these delays aren't just an inconvenience. They are a crisis. And we're talking about students unable to register for classes, families missing rent payments, and veterans being left in the dark. And why? because the Department of Veteran Affairs decided to process claims using old dusty spreadsheets and fax machines. Now, we have spent nearly $1 billion on a contract with Accenture for the digital GI bill.
▶ 0:50:43And we spent another $25 million to keep a 1970s legacy system on life support. And yet somehow the solution was to have case managers key files into ancient spreadsheets, one claim at a time. Now, that's just not incompetent and wasteful. It is an insult to every veteran in my district. Now, we hear a lot of excuses about complex processing and lapses in appropriations, but the reality is the VA kept a failed policy in place.
▶ 0:51:12And my first question is for you, Mr. Park. Now, the goal of this subcommittee is to ensure VA programs like the digital VI GI Bill tangibly improve the lives of veterans and their families. How much has Accenture been paid to date, and what have veterans and beneficiaries received for this? Thank you for the question. Uh we have been paid to date 686 million.
▶ 0:51:35Uh and for that we now have the majority of all veterans uh able to access their benefits uh to get this certificate of eligibility in seconds as opposed to weeks and in some cases months. Um that's a major change to the ability to get your benefits. um that has driven an increase in utilization as you heard in my oral testimony.
▶ 0:51:58Um this this result is that we now have you know 16 million claims that have been processed and uh 43 billion in benefits that have been sent out and that is for 2.3 million unique beneficiaries. You can I'm sure appreciate uh what that does for veterans and their families.
▶ 0:52:17Uh and we did all this while uh addressing decades of legacy debt um not the least of which was the speed mainframe um which if it had failed as you heard from the VA due to various issues such as you know the fact it's past end of life the fact that you know it could not be reasonably updated to comply with legislative and judicial mandates and the fact that it could not be staffed any longer given how old the technology was.
▶ 0:52:44it would have created uh impact to veterans and disconnected them from their benefits. So, we did all of those things while processing all of these claims that you've heard and there's plenty more uh that has been done for that amount, 686
▶ 0:53:00So, how long was the system not being used for?
▶ 0:53:03Uh h how long was the uh DGIB system?
▶ 0:53:08No. Uh throughout the entire uh execution of this contract uh the DJI BIS system has been up and running. It's up 99.99% of the time. So there has been no interruption of service uh for the system itself.
▶ 0:53:24Well, when did Accenture get paid?
▶ 0:53:26Uh we get we get paid on a monthly basis based on delivery on specific milestones and um uh that that occurs monthly. But you were getting paid when we weren't even using the system.
▶ 0:53:39The system has been used every single day since we started in 2021.
▶ 0:53:43And yet there is this backlog of over
▶ 0:53:47That is correct. As you as you heard um that that is driven by two main factors, you know, the increase in the chapter 35 yearon-year of 19% and also the decision uh to have VCEs manually process claims. when they process things manually, it is important to understand they're doing it inside the DGIB system.
▶ 0:54:07What changed on September 23rd is that we then had approved requirements to automate a portion of that processing so that the VCs would not need to do any manual
▶ 0:54:19Right. But it took a long time for it to actually get implemented. Right. From 2024 all the way to August of 2025. Um yeah, I guess to help shed light, you know, the the DGIB itself had the capability of processing chapter 35 in December of 2024 uh as a risk mitigation approach.
▶ 0:54:40That production capability was used for all new beneficiaries, but not as you heard from uh other folks, the beneficiaries that were already in the mainframe. What occurred in July and then August was the migration of those older claim sets of data into DGIB and then this uh reconciliation or validation of data.
▶ 0:55:03I'm out of time. I yield back.
▶ 0:55:06Thank you, Mr. Romney. Yields back. Uh Mr. Ramirez is recognized for five
▶ 0:55:10Thank you, chairman and ranking member for holding today's um hearing and our witnesses for joining us today. As we think about the work that we do here in this committee, we know that education is one of those benefits that as someone just mentioned, u our veterans not just deserve, they've really earned it. And I've remained clear since my first day in Congress almost three years ago that delivering these benefits that veterans deserve has to be a top priority for all of us.
▶ 0:55:40So, I got to be honest with you, it's deeply alarming that we're here today to talk about the failures of the digital GI Bill. And let me tell you why. Let's look at the facts. Despite millions of dollars and amp opportunities for the digital GI bill to be implemented smoothly and efficiently, a backlog remains and roll out continues to be a problem. We know that many veterans rely on their GI Bill benefits to remain housed and to access basic necessities.
▶ 0:56:07So any delay in receiving these funds could be really dire for them. And that is why it's deeply alarming that when Republicans shut the government down, 75,000 Chapter 35 claims were backlogged. And as of December 5th, it concerns me that the VA still has approximately 4,400 chapter 35 claims to process from the fall 2025 semester. To me, that's unacceptable. And and I want to ask a couple questions as followup.
▶ 0:56:35Miss Develin, survivors and dependents rely on education benefits for access to basic needs. When education benefits are not paid on time, veterans have these tough decisions they have to face, right? About where the money will come from. Will it be out of their rent money? Will it be out of their car payments? Will it be the grocery funds? So, by September, VA knew reconciliation was taking four to six times longer than planned.
▶ 0:57:00Why has Congress not immediately been notified when VA knew payments would be delayed for survivors and dependents relying on this income to stay enrolled? Did the VA understand the financial harm the payment delays would
▶ 0:57:15Thank you for the question. Uh we also were very concerned about the delays in payments. Um we did not understand the magnitude of what these delays would cause uh before the shutdown, but I will say we are um caught up on the backlog and we only have 28 as of yesterday chapter 35 claims that were received before December 12th. um we have 400 that were received for the fall term in the last seven days.
▶ 0:57:40So we are caught up with the fall term um backlog and I will say that in October from October to November we processed 56% more payments than the previous year dispersing $238
▶ 0:57:54Well, Min, let me follow up on that. We weren't notified. Um and I think that's alarming. This is a body of oversight. We should have and I appreciate you hearing hearing you say that you're addressing this. It's not going to happen again. Do you believe it's accept acceptable though that during the government shutdown affected beneficiaries had no call center? They had no answers and no response to congressional casework while still being told that they still had to pay their rent. They still had to cover tuition.
▶ 0:58:23They still had to cover child care without their earned benefits. That's a really easy yes or no. Do you think it's
▶ 0:58:30We were following the VA's contingency plan. We followed the the rule of law on
▶ 0:58:36and so in that rule uh there was no call center and no answers and no response to congressional case work. Uh that's unacceptable. Mr. Smith, families were told their payments would not be delayed and then they were. So Mr. Smith, you've stated that you don't expect similar problems in the spring semester. Uh what specifically has changed and why should survivors trust that assurance now?
▶ 0:59:00Uh thank you for the question. So, uh, working with Accenture Partners, um, we've talked a little bit about the automation of the reconciliation process. We've already pre-reciled more than 86,000, um, beneficiaries who may be returning in the spring, but we're not enrolled in the fall. Add to that all the folks that will continue from fall into spring. All of those people are now automation eligible.
▶ 0:59:26Just yesterday, uh, VA automated 3,500 of the 6,600, uh, chapter 35 claims that were completed. That's an automation rate of That's 54% on top of what our normal claims processors are doing. We are completing more claims on at an unprecedented rate and delivering those benefits in a day now.
▶ 0:59:51Thank you, Mr. Smith. And I think that that is the goal and priority every single day. Look, January 20th will come before we know it. I don't want to see us go back to some Republican government shutdown where veterans are impacted. It's why this hearing is so important, ensuring that our veterans and their bene and their families are getting the access they need. And I look forward to following up with you um in the new year. Thank you.
▶ 1:00:13Thank you, Mr. Ramirez. Um next is uh Mr. Kennedy for five minutes.
▶ 1:00:18Thank you, Chairman, and thanks to you and the ranking member for hosting this today. Uh thank you all for being here. I represent the Buffalo Niagara region which is home to Western New York's VA healthcare system and one of only two post 911 GI Bill processing centers.
▶ 1:00:36For years, workforce shortages at both the Veterans Better Administration regional office and the Buffalo VA Medical Center have been severe and persistent, particularly in primary care, mental health, urology, gastroenterenterology, and endocrinology. I've seen how understaffing at the VA affects veterans and their families. It means longer wait times, delayed care, and real consequences for those who rely on these services.
▶ 1:01:06In August 2024, dozens of nurses gathered outside the Buffalo VA to protest pay disparities, excessive work hours, and the VA's hiring freeze. They warned that these severe staffing shortages jeopardize patient safety and undermine the VA's commitment to providing highquality care for our nation's bravest.
▶ 1:01:32Those warnings were echoed weeks later when the VA's OIG September 20 uh 24 report titled Community Care Consult Delays despite staff advocacy efforts at the VA Western New York Health Care System in Buffalo.
▶ 1:01:51The report found that staffing shortages in both administrative and clinical settings led to delayed consult and appointments, leaving our heroes without the care they need, including ones who were hospitalized and others who were tragically passed as a result. Despite those known challenges, conditions have continued to deteriorate at the hands of this administration. At the end of 2024, the VA reported 40,000 vacancies nationwide.
▶ 1:02:20Rather than filling those positions, including critical vacancies at the Buffalo VA, the Trump administration imposed a hiring freeze, dismissing approximately 2400 employees between February 13th and February 2024th of this year. On March 4th, a leaked internal memo revealed plans to lay off more than 80,000 of the VA's 470,000 employees, returning staffing to prepacked act levels.
▶ 1:02:48Although the VA later claimed a reverse course on July 7th of this year, that commitment has now been abandoned. This past Saturday, the VA announced plans to eliminate up to 35,000 health care jobs, including doctors, nurses, and critical support staff. more than what the agency said just months ago. Instead of addressing the deficiencies, this administration is exacerbating them.
▶ 1:03:18Cutting 35,000 additional health care positions will al only deepen the VA's workforce crisis, worsening access to care for veterans in my district and across the country. For an administration that claims to be pro-service member and pro- veteran, reality is telling a very different story. You cannot claim to support veterans while cutting the dedicated staff who care for them.
▶ 1:03:47You cannot claim to support veterans while delaying their benefits. You cannot claim to support veterans while ignoring the concerns raised by members of this committee. I want to be clear about the human cost. As an occupational therapist myself, I know the consequences of Quality of patient care declines, burnout rises, and providers leave. Not because they don't care, but because the system becomes unsustainable.
▶ 1:04:18When that breakdown occurs at the VA, it's our veterans who are paying the price with their lives. As members of this committee were entrusted to upholding this nation's promise to our veterans, not weakening it. These cuts that the Trump administration is making betray that promise. They're shortsighted. They're unamerican.
▶ 1:04:41and they're deeply disrespectful to both the veterans who served and the professionals dedicated to caring for them. I yield back. Mr. Kenny yields back. Now recognize uh Miss Bazinski for five minutes.
▶ 1:04:58Thank you, Chairman Barrett and Ranking Member Papis for allowing me to join this hearing today. I really appreciate it. Our two subcommittees have performed oversight on the digital GI Bill program together for several years. Um, it's unfortunate that the program's relative success has been impaired by recent mispayments and a lack of communication by the department which has been obviously discussed on at the committee already today.
▶ 1:05:26Even more unfortunate is that IT hiccups and tech glitches have become the scapegoat when it appears that policy decisions and a lack of planning were to actually were actually to blame. Issues that plague too many of VA's modernization efforts.
▶ 1:05:44It appears your next policy effort is to accelerate the automation approach despite the initial choice to not automate due to integrity concerns with the data coming from BDN. Um I now hear that you are choosing to move to an automation first strategy. Miss Develin, what work has your team done to ensure that this move is not an overcorrection and won't result in erroneous payments?
▶ 1:06:14Thank you for the question. Our accuracy is very high with automation. Excuse me. [clears throat] And if automation first had been the strategy last year, we would not be having this conversation today. The accuracy of automation um is currently at 96% for originals and 93% for supplementals. And errors don't necessarily mean an error in payment. A lot of times they're just technical errors that don't result in a reduced or overpayment. Okay.
▶ 1:06:42I find it very alarming that the VA did not notify Congress, as has been said, about these delays for over three months. And as far as I can tell, VA never officially notified beneficiaries or the VSOs. That lack of communication caused confusion, frustration, and further delays in benefits. And I just want to add my voice to what has been already expressed in this committee today, that sheer frustration over that lack of communication. This absolutely cannot be the norm when errors at the VA occur.
▶ 1:07:12Um, I'm also concerned that the issues that led to these payment delays will not be fully resolved before veterans and their beneficiaries start classes in January. I urge our VA witnesses here today and the secretary himself to get ahead of this and communicate with Miss Develin, um, it's clear that VA's communication strategy failed veterans during this gap in benefits payment. How has VA assessed the impacts of these errors for the spring semester?
▶ 1:07:42And how has VA communicated to beneficiaries for potential delays? Thank you for that question as well. And it is our our practice and our philosophy to communicate early when we know there's going to be a problem. Um I mentioned earlier we didn't understand the magnitude of this problem and how it would affect our beneficiaries. For your question about the spring term, um we automated 50% of those of those claims that we've received so far already in December.
▶ 1:08:08Um we have 997 pending for the spring, but of those 875 were just received in the last seven days. So I I I tell you with confidence we are processing the spring term claims in a timely manner.
▶ 1:08:23Okay. Um Mr. Park uh mentioned that back in 2024 that was when the decision was made to manually reconcile and it was done with the understanding that VCUs had the capacity to take on this load. Miss Develin, um how did the deferred resignation program or the voluntary early retirement authority impact VCU's capacity to manually reconcile these
▶ 1:08:50Thank you. That's a great question. um VBA had excluded claims processors from both the deferred resignation program and from uh early retirement. So we did not have any individuals from that business line or any claims processors take those options.
▶ 1:09:06Okay. Um Great. I yield back. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:09:14Thank you, Mr. Bazinski. Yields back. Mr. McGarvey for um five or less minutes so we can get out of here on time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate it. Um, you know, too many times up here we use government speak and sterile language like payment delays. When back home at Louisville, you've got veterans, survivors, dependents who rely on these benefits that they have earned. They rely on them to pay tuition on time. They rely on them to have a roof over their head.
▶ 1:09:43The families when these payments don't show up, they're not inconvenienced by a payment delay. They are completely blindsided because they've done everything right. Right? This isn't just a technical glitch or a policy issue. It's a complete breakdown of trust. These survivors, right, these dependents, they applied on time. They checked their status. They waited. They did everything they were supposed to do.
▶ 1:10:12and the VA didn't tell them the truth about what was happening. These families were left in the dark. We were left in the dark. And if we can't trust the VA to be upfront when things go wrong, then how can we trust the VA to fix the problem? Because survivors in Louisville and across the country should never ever have to wonder when they've done everything right, when they or their loved one has put on the uniform and served us, they should never have to wonder if their benefits they've earned will arrive.
▶ 1:10:42They've already sacrificed enough. That's what this hearing is about. So, Miss Develin, you've said this wasn't a glitch, but a business decision. Why didn't the VA tell Congress and students and the people receiving these benefits upfront that the claims would take longer? Why were they left in the dark until thousands had already missed
▶ 1:11:07Thank you for the question. When we know we have something that's going to impact beneficiaries, we do notify Congress. The challenge was with that business decision that was made in 2024 is that the estimates were that it would take seconds to manually reconcile these claims. But it didn't in fact take seconds. It took in some cases hours. As soon as we heard that, we immediately jumped into action to correct to correct the matter. We didn't know the magnitude of the delays that would happen otherwise we would have notified.
▶ 1:11:36We did we did do a briefing um a four corners briefing but again at that time we didn't understand the magnitude of the effect on beneficiaries which we also regret deeply because we understand the impact on these people's lives.
▶ 1:11:48Why didn't you understand the magnitude of it? because when the decision was made last year, the estimates of time would be seconds and we believed that we would be able to manage that and we also implemented an IT solution to um automate the reconciliation but unfortunately there was a delay in implementing that that automated solution which we believed would correct the problem.
▶ 1:12:09So who was held accountable for this incredible error and mistake?
▶ 1:12:14I can't speak to who made those decisions last year. I wasn't there. We would love to know. And looking ahead, I mean, look, we're obviously we're upset, the families impacted again, blindsided, devastated by these decisions. But we have to look ahead, too. What is the VA's plan to make sure the spring semester doesn't repeat this fall backlog? And will you commit to clear, timely communication with us, with the schools, and with the families if these problems come up again?
▶ 1:12:44Thank you. Yes, I make that commitment to you to to continue to to to do a better job of communicating more transparently with with you, all of you on the subcommittee and also with our beneficiaries for the spring term, we automated 50% of the spring term enrollments that we've gotten already. Um, and of the ones that we've received just in the last seven days, well, we only have 997 pending, and of those, 875 were received just in the last seven days. So, we are timely on the spring already.
▶ 1:13:12I'm glad you brought up automation because you've said automation is helping now, but until that number I had that only about 13% of claims are processed that way. Uh, and if you're saying it's 50% great, but when will these reconciliations be fully automated and when will they have proper human checks in place to make sure that the automation is doing what it needs to
▶ 1:13:30Many of the reconciliations are already automated at this point in time. We've corrected that and our accuracy right now is 96% for originals and 93% for supplementals. So, we are we are processing the claims correctly. We are trusting the BDN data that's coming over and we're finding it to be accurate.
▶ 1:13:47Part of the problem here, and I know I've got short time for lots of reasons, part of the problem here is when you did this, right? It happened at the beginning of the semester when families are hit the hardest by this. Um, what's your plan for scheduling future updates so families aren't blindsided in this way? And have you thought about the actual time in which you can do this?
▶ 1:14:03Absolutely. And we generally would not time a release this big around that time frame. Unfortunately, the contract for the BDN was ending the end of the fiscal year. And to be honest, if we had to keep that system alive for another year, not only would it cost 25 million additional dollars, but the risk to students was even greater. We would be having a much different cat, it would be catastrophic if the BDN shut down.
▶ 1:14:25Have a lot more questions, but I'm out of time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
▶ 1:14:28Yeah, thank you. And uh due to uh uh circumstances beyond the control of this committee, um we are going to need to take a brief recess uh for this panel, these witnesses. Thank you. you are excused and we will reconvene with our second panel. Uh we have to take leave for a recess for a classified briefing scheduled for all members of the house. Therefore, the subcommittee will stand in recess subject to the call of the chair. I expect to reconvene at 12:25 or as soon as possible. Thank you.
▶ 2:37:16All right, committee will come back to Our second panel, we will hear from the following witness. Miss Ashlin Hock Lman, director of government of legislative affairs at Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors, also known as TAPS. And I'd like to welcome the witness on our second panel to the witness table. And I ask you please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Let the record Thank you.
▶ 2:37:44And let the record reflect that the witness of witness has answered in the affirmative. Uh ma'am, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your testimony. Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Papus, and distinguished committee members, the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors is grateful for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the 120,000 surviving families TAP was honored to serve and the 168,000 Chapter 35
▶ 2:38:07Can you move the microphone a little
▶ 2:38:09Yes. Uh, and the 168,000 Chapter 35 beneficiaries who received delayed payments for the fall semester. The recent delays and incomplete payments in the VA's Chapter 35 survivors independent education assistance program are not just a technical failure for surviving families. They represent a deeply personal setback at a time when they are already rebuilding their lives after profound loss.
▶ 2:38:32As a surviving child who previously utilized these benefits, I can say with certainty that when the payments do not arrive on time, it creates unnecessary stress and anxiety. When payments were delayed for me, that often meant hours on the phone and having to choose between attending classes or picking up extra shifts at the restaurant I waited tables at to make sure I could cover rent, food, and bills. This is not a choice any VA beneficiary should have to make, especially when the student did everything they were supposed to do.
▶ 2:38:59Chapter 35 is an education benefit created nearly 70 years ago under the War Orphans Education Assistant Act of 1956. Despite small improvements, the benefit is still only$1,574 per month. That is less than half of the Montgomery GI Bill and far below the post 911 GI Bill and Fry scholarship. For students today, it barely makes a dent in the cost of tuition, let alone living expenses.
▶ 2:39:21Students using Chapter 35 are the dependents of 100% disabled veterans, those who died of service connected causes, and families of those who died before 911, populations that already receive fewer benefits than their post 911 counterparts. While the VA has made progress automating Chapter 33 claims through the digital GI Bill, chapter 35 was still being processed on Cobalt, a system from 1959 until recently. When the VA finally moved towards automation in August 2025, the update triggered major technical failures.
▶ 2:39:52In September, the VA told Congress that around 900 students were affected. But by mid-occtober, over 75,000 Chapter 35 beneficiaries still had not received a single payment. In total, 168,000 fall semester beneficiary payments were delayed. Taps only learned of the issue because families and schools contacted us, not because VA alerted stakeholders. And while we understand that payments often arrive late, the volume of October inquiries this year was unlike anything we had seen since 2018.
▶ 2:40:22To date, the VA has not provided any briefings to the VSO community on what happened or how they plan to fix it. For surviving families, these benefits are not supplemental income. They are a lifeline, a bridge to stability, healing, and opportunity. When payments did not arrive, students missed tuition deadlines. Schools couldn't get information. Families borrowed money or went into debt. Some students dropped courses or delayed enrollment.
▶ 2:40:48This hardship is unacceptable for anyone, but especially for survivors who have already endured so much. This is also not the first time VA education services has struggled with major IT changes. In 2018, failures implementing the Forever GI Bill caused a backlog of more than 200,000 claims. Congress acted then to prevent students from being penalized by their schools, a law that helped that many of the 168,000 Chapter 35 beneficiaries this year. But that law does not protect against eviction notices, repossession, or late fees.
▶ 2:41:18Being made whole eventually is not enough. The situation was made worse by the government shutdown. While the IT failure occurred in August, unrelated to the shutdown, the shutdown eliminated the very resources students needed to seek help. The GI Bill hotline was closed, communication staffs were furoughed, yet press releases continued even as 75,000 students were left completely in the dark. Taps tried to submit hardship cases through established VA inboxes, but received only automated shutdown messages.
▶ 2:41:48Ultimately, we relied on the staff of this committee to help surviving families during a critical time, and we thank them sincerely. CAPS is committed to working with VA to ensure our surviving families receive their education benefits on time and ensure this never happens again, which is why we recommend VA implement the following. One, make the GI Bill hotline an essential service during any future government shutdown. Two, designate all education claims processors as essential just as other VBA processors are.
▶ 2:42:18Three is to resume the monthly stakeholder calls so that updates, issues, and upcoming IT changes are commun communicated clearly and Four, to create an IT rollout plan that avoids the start of academic terms. And lastly, publicly share rigorous IT testing and rollout plans with the Our surviving families did everything right. They applied early, checked their status, and waited, but the system failed them. We must ensure it does not happen again.
▶ 2:42:47On behalf of our surviving families, CAPS appreciates the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you.
▶ 2:42:54Thank you. The, uh, written statement of Miss Hayak Loman will be entered into the record. Appreciate your testimony. With now, um, we will move on to questions. I'll recognize myself for five minutes. uh deeply appreciate your um willingness to come and testify in front of the committee and share some of these um examples and stories with us. I know you have quite a few folks that you've spoken to that have been deeply affected by this and you know from our position on this committee to the extent that you know we offer an apology for that.
▶ 2:43:22I want it to be you know heartfelt and sincere that you know we want to make sure that this doesn't happen again and we want to work with you on that. Uh I'm committed to working with the VA to re-engage that periodic um you know outreach to our VSOs so that there is a flow of information back and forth where they can hear from you and you can hear from them and vice versa. Also um you know I began to think about potential policy changes that might be effective in helping to ease this.
▶ 2:43:53One of which was the uh certificate of eligibility. Instead of waiting until a student is about to enroll in college, which might be 10 or more years after they would become eligible due to the death of a parent or or family member, why not furnish the certificate of eligibility upon the time that they're eligible? That way, it's one less step in the process later on and trying to accumulate military records from 10 or 15 or more years prior to that, for example. Um, so that is something that we're going to to look at.
▶ 2:44:23Um, I know that there was concerns of students that may have been dismissed from school because enough time had gone on. I think there's a 90-day window that they cannot take action against a student and some of that may have, you know, unfortunately gone beyond that threshold. Do you know of any institution that you know that removed from enrollment a student that fell into this circumstance of not having payment
▶ 2:44:50We heard of quite a few schools that threatened to do so. Our casework team is phenomenal and reached out directly to those schools, provided them with the law, provided them with uh all of the publicly available information, which is very little from VA, but really tried to work with them as well as we work with a lot of private scholarship organizations to try and make sure that there was enough of a payment made for those students if the school was truly threatening that to make sure that they weren't going to be dropped. But the stress and anxiety of that was something that was was really difficult.
▶ 2:45:18So, no uh no schools that we know of and that you have heard of disenrolled or or unenrolled a student uh during this. Not that that defends the delay, but we want to make sure that there aren't any any schools that actually followed through on that to the best of your knowledge.
▶ 2:45:34Not that we know of because we made sure those uh working with other organizations to make sure those payments were at least made to prevent that from happening.
▶ 2:45:41Okay. Thank you. And then um do you know how many um of the uh of the students within the TAPS program were affected by this specific delay?
▶ 2:45:52We heard from several dozen cases that were true hardship which we worked uh directly with your staff to to establish. We heard from even larger numbers um more in the hundreds potentially thousands uh that were delayed uh but didn't consider themselves true hardships especially if they had other scholarships and things that were helping supplement at least the tuition piece.
▶ 2:46:11Okay. And then um we've heard that the chapter 35 backlog has essentially been extinguished. Have you heard from any of your members that does not substantiate that claim?
▶ 2:46:24Not at this time. Every case that we sent forward was paid uh fairly quickly and we are hearing we have not heard from anyone that they still have outstanding payments
▶ 2:46:32as of the last few weeks or so.
▶ 2:46:35Okay. Um, and what um, what I guess you may have mentioned this in your testimony and in an earlier question, but do you have any regular contact with the VA through your organization or is that really just sort of halted?
▶ 2:46:50Uh, normally we do. We actually have a memorandum of understanding with the VA. Uh, and we've worked closely with education services in the past. The stakeholder meeting that I mentioned was held uh, monthly for many years. Uh but the last VA stakeholder meeting occurred in December of 2024. They uh we were told in January that they were moving them to quarterly uh and then the first two quarterly ones were canceled and then everything has been removed from the calendar since.
▶ 2:47:14Okay. Okay. And then um have you heard uh for the upcoming semester the January enrollment um obviously there are going to be individuals applying for either continuation of benefits or for new benefits that they would be enrolling in. Have you heard of any um lengthy delays beyond, you know, maybe a couple of weeks or so for these claims to get
▶ 2:47:37Not that we're aware of, but we also have not been briefed. And to my knowledge, schools have not been briefed on uh any possible delays or or things that schools can be doing to to better support students if there is a delay.
▶ 2:47:48Okay. Okay. But you haven't had from either or haven't heard from either schools or um or beneficiaries that that you're affiliated with that have had lengthy delays for the January semester.
▶ 2:47:59We generally wouldn't know until a payment doesn't arrive. So a pays we wouldn't even generally know until February because the AP pays in the rears. So January payments wouldn't arrive until February 1st.
▶ 2:48:10Okay. Thank you. I'll now recognize ranking member Papis for five minutes.
▶ 2:48:14Thanks Mr. Chairman and thank you Miss Hock Lman for joining us here at this hearing. and we really appreciate your testimony. Now, VA had been calling this problem for months a technical glitch. Um, but it really wasn't technical at all. It was a result of poor planning and management. And I'm just wondering if you can tell tell us more about the level of communication that you may have or have not had with VA to understand this challenge. Um, and so did you receive direct communication from VA about this issue or how did you learn about it?
▶ 2:48:42We learned from students and schools. we started getting large numbers of outreach and uh other VSOs were hearing similar things when uh we actually do have bi-weekly education calls within the VSO community to communicate the things we are hearing uh and we all started hearing a lot of the same things. Uh we were able to work through some back channels and start hearing especially from committee staff that they were hearing consistently that there was a bigger issue.
▶ 2:49:07uh but to date we have not received any briefing or messaging from VA uh on the pathway
▶ 2:49:14Okay. So, and as you said, no stakeholder meeting, no quarterly meeting, those haven't been happening, no direct communication. So, you're piecing this together with your colleagues from other organizations and based on what you're hearing directly from your members.
▶ 2:49:26Yes. As well as committee staff who were hearing the same thing and we're getting more communication at least than we were. So, um, like you, I've been hearing from people on this issue, from constituents who have been impacted by the failure to pay benefits on time. And, um, I spoke to one of those stories in my opening statement.
▶ 2:49:42And so, here I ask unanimous consent that the October 2025 report from the National Association of Veterans Program Administrators on the impact of mispayments and the government shutdown into the record um, as it has direct quotes from beneficiaries and hardship and emotional stress that has been uh, put on our veterans and beneficiaries. So, Mr. Chairman, I ask you and Miss Consent to put this report into the hearing record without objection. Sure.
▶ 2:50:04Well, thanks. And so, Miss Hock Lman, um, what impact, you talked about your own personal experience with delayed uh, benefits. What impact does four months of missed benefits have on someone?
▶ 2:50:13Most Chapter 35 recipients are are children. They're, you know, between the ages of 18 and 26. They are young adults. They don't have savings. They generally don't have other income or benefits coming in. So, four months of no payments means four months of missed rent, four months of not making car payments, you know, scra scrambling to pay for food, things like that. That's these young adults should not be having to deal with you. This is a pretty young community. They don't have that savings. They generally don't have credit.
▶ 2:50:39And it also opens them up to predatory actors, things like looking for payday lenders, title loans, you know, emergency situations when you're that desperate to make sure you don't get evicted.
▶ 2:50:50You made an important point. There are a lot of folks that are just not moving money between accounts to be able to deal with the lack of benefits being paid on time. And so you mentioned that people aren't necessarily whole even if their benefits have been paid.
▶ 2:51:05Well, um I appreciate that. And you know, can you talk about other ways that you think VA should be acting to address this? you you gave us a a list of things that you would hope VA could um could take under consideration, including including making the hotline uh permanent, ensuring that that's always open for GI Bill beneficiaries, um making sure um that that those stakeholders calls get back online.
▶ 2:51:29So, you know, what can we work with you on to ensure that VA is um, you know, taking steps that are going to help either prevent this from happening again, but also, you know, making sure ultimately that people who have these tough cases and aren't getting their answers um have some uh some way of of getting through the system.
▶ 2:51:44A big piece of that is transparency and working with the VSO community. We are we are oftentimes talking to survivors, veterans more closely and daily than uh the VA generally is. So, we are hearing these stories, but we're also messaging to them. We put out newsletters. We have social media with large followings. We have ability to make sure this information is getting to the community that it needs to.
▶ 2:52:06uh you know when VA is sending out CA they have not sent out really anything specific on this to date but you know large we have newsletters and things that are hitting the population that are actually read more closely than you know large things from you know VA that are in legal ease that they might not understand what exactly that VA email says but the way we're able to word it because we're not tied to those legal rules uh makes it a little easier for survivors to understand but if we don't know what's going on we can't message that to our
▶ 2:52:34Sure. Certainly, and I think you probably heard the exchange that we had with uh VA officials uh on the first panel. Congress was kept in the dark on this. VSOs were kept in the dark, beneficiaries were kept in the dark. Um that level of transparency um you you think that would have helped individuals even if they know their benefits were going to be late, just knowing what was going on and being able to plan would have been of some value to folks.
▶ 2:52:58Absolutely. Because they could have, you know, we could have messaged this out to survivors. we could have worked more closely ahead of time with some of our partner scholarship organizations and the other programs out there that support survivors to make sure that uh you know instead of this very scrambling of trying to make payments that we were working with them and getting them into some of these other programs to help offset the the immediate costs earlier instead of you know waiting until it was too late because we didn't know what was
▶ 2:53:24Well, I thank you for your testimony today and answering those questions and for being patient with us too. This is an important issue and uh we want to continue to engage with you and uh you you often help us understand um how veterans are receiving information, how beneficiaries are um encountering challenges with programs and so your feedback is so critical. Thanks for being here. I yield back.
▶ 2:53:50Very good. Um, I want to um thank our uh witness on the second panel and our witnesses earlier today for being here to discuss the ways that VA can resolve the issue of delayed payments and ensure that this problem doesn't happen again. Uh, and while Chairman Van Orton could couldn't be here today, he takes these issues very seriously and he conveyed that to me and to all of us on this committee and this won't be our final hearing on the digital GI bill this Congress.
▶ 2:54:15Um, with that, I'm going to yield to well, I want to dismiss our panel uh now and then yield to Ranking Member Papis for any concluding remarks.
▶ 2:54:22Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman. And, uh, I think this was an important hearing today. And what is clear is that the problem is not fully solved. We need to continue to dedicate more time to examining it, especially as we enter the spring 2026 school semester. People that we hear from the most, veterans, families, survivors themselves, need to have a larger voice. and I would like to receive testimony from more VSOs on how their members have been impacted. I also want to note that we were only discussing chapter 35 benefits today.
▶ 2:54:49Our committee has received reports of delayed benefits in chapter 31 VR& and chapter 33, the post 911 GI Bill during the fall 2025 school semester. So, we must conduct rigorous bipartisan oversight to identify and address benefits payments issues in those programs as well. Finally, Mr. Chairman, I would like to have a follow-up hearing on these Chapter 35 delays when we get back from the holiday recess where we have appointees of the president testifying. We as Congress must assert our article 1 powers to conduct oversight and demand answers from those attempting to sweep failure under the rug.
▶ 2:55:19Those in charge must be held to account. With that, I would like to thank our witnesses for their flexibility. And I yield back, Mr.
▶ 2:55:25Thank you, Rank Member Papis. And again, thank you to all our witnesses who are here today. This won't be the last time we examine this issue. And we are going to uh really extract um expectations from the VA around what is the appropriate amount of time under which an approval will take place. What is the target time that we are going to have? How are we going to hold to that standard and what is the methodology that we're going to follow to get there.
▶ 2:55:47Um, and as I said on the uh subcommittee in which I serve as chairman on the uh technology and modernization subcommittee, there's quite a bit of overlap with this area of jurisdiction as well and look forward to working with the members of this subcommittee in that effort in that pursuit as well as our um folks at the VA that we will be working with as well. Uh thank you again to all of our witnesses. Thank you to the ranking member. Um and I ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous material.
▶ 2:56:17Without objection, so ordered. And with that, this hearing is