▶ 0:09:35I used to declare a recess on the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on america first, U.S. leadership and national security in international conservation under committee rule for any oral opening. Statements of the hearing are limited to the chairman and to the ranking member. I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members statements be made part of the hearing record as they are submitted in accordance with committee rule three zero. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:10:02I ask unanimous consent. The following members be allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing. The gentleman from mississippi, Mr. ezell, the gentleman from iowa. Mr. miller-meeks, the gentleman from pennsylvania, Mr. joyce and the gentleman from illinois, Mr. quigley. Any additional last minute waivers waves on here without objection. So ordered. I now recognize myself for my opening statement. Good afternoon everyone. Sorry you were waiting.
▶ 0:10:31We just had votes and I got two hearings. I'm running back and forth. So I think our witnesses for traveling to washington, D.C. to testify before the committee today for a very necessary conversation regarding national security implications of the international conservation and environmental crime. When someone mentions international conservation, the first thing that comes to mind is not transnational criminal organizations or terrorist groups.
▶ 0:10:56But increasingly, these criminal networks and nefarious actors are using environmental crime to fund their organizations and inflict violence across the globe. Environmental crime is the world's fourth largest crime sector, generating hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue annually compared to narcotics and human trafficking, wildlife trafficking is met with much less stringent enforcement, and many of our enemies around the globe have taken note and are starting to stick their finger in this pie.
▶ 0:11:25Whether it's cartels such as sinaloa or new haskell and latin america and al qaeda and isis affiliates throughout africa and the middle east, or china's exploiting exploitative deep water fleet operating across the high seas, america's adversaries have taken advantage of the low hanging fruit that is environmental crime.
▶ 0:11:48To make matters even harder to follow, wildlife trafficking is utilized by cartels and chinese affiliated organizations as a form of money laundering. Cartels will barter wildlife products such as rare hardwoods. Like today's most trafficked wildlife commodity, rosewood, or other animal products, which are often sold as luxury goods or used in traditional chinese medicine. So chinese groups, in exchange for precursor precursor chemicals used in the production of fentanyl.
▶ 0:12:19Essentially, these traffic goods coming from endangered species are being used to fuel the opioid epidemic that has gripped our country, all at the fault of china. Across the globe. In the central african republic, russia's wagner group has secured a 30 year long logging concession to exploit africa's nation's weak governance and natural resources. If the wagner group extracts wood from just a third of the lowland, does this mean this revenue will generate over $900 million? Wow.
▶ 0:12:46Not only are these environmental crimes funding cartels and the opioid epidemic, but wars perpetrated by russia and mercenaries, as well as part of the convention on international trade in endangered species, or cites, the united states has a strong commitment to address wildlife trafficking, which is displayed throughout our implementation of the lacey act.
▶ 0:13:05Despite our strong regulations, some illegal suppliers are still able to slip through the cracks and access the lucrative american market throughout through mislabeling practices or laundering their goods through countries with more lax oversight, such as china.
▶ 0:13:19Today, we'll be hearing from witnesses coming from industry groups, academia and prior service with the fish and wildlife service about the disastrous effects wildlife trafficking, illegal logging, and illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing have towards our nation's economic order and resource security. These effects, these effects don't just allow criminal groups to proliferate. These crimes cause downstream consequences that ultimately harm american producers.
▶ 0:13:47Property operating according to the rule of law. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about how these crimes are proliferating, and ways that we can mitigate their consequences. I thank you, and I now recognize the ranking member, miss dexter, for her five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Wildlife trafficking has spiraling impacts. It makes entire ecosystems more vulnerable to collapse. It threatens the foundational biodiversity on which all economies depend.
▶ 0:14:17It undermines legitimate businesses that work hard every day to operate within the law. In the case of illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing, the human rights abuses are appalling and food contamination issues. Contamination issues are widespread. But as a physician, I want to focus on an under-recognized national security threat the spread of dangerous pathogens through international wildlife trade, both legal and illegal.
▶ 0:14:43The 2018 national biodefense strategy, released by the trump white house says it plainly biological threats, whether naturally occurring, accidental or deliberate in origin, are among the most serious threats facing the united states and the international community. Outbreaks of disease can cause catastrophic harm to the united states.
▶ 0:15:05They can cause death, sicken and disable on a massive scale, and they can also inflict psychological trauma and economic and social disruption. Again, that was the trump administration. Covid is the most obvious example, having most likely been spread through a wet market where wildlife was traded legally. In 2002, a different sars outbreak was caused by trade in civets. Mpox was first introduced in the us from pet prairie dogs that were co-housed with rodents imported from ghana.
▶ 0:15:36The data are overwhelming. Roughly 75% of infectious diseases originate from animals, and over 70% of these emerging diseases from animals originate in wildlife rather than domesticated animals. The avian flu outbreak alone in the us has killed two out of the seven confirmed human infections in the us, had killed two out of the seven confirmed, and have resulted in the deaths of 185 million birds. Damage estimates exceed $1.5 billion.
▶ 0:16:04Major disease outbreaks from zoonotic diseases or, as most of the people here know, diseases that jump from animals to humans can emerge through wildlife trade, but they also originate domestically. One of this country's biggest national security vulnerabilities is that no one is systematically tracking these diseases as they move across the country and wildlife.
▶ 0:16:29The national academies of science, congressional blue ribbon panels, nonprofit organization studies, and the national strategy on biodefense have recognized the need to conduct disease surveillance and wildlife across the country in order to help prevent major outbreaks. That's why I've been working with states, tribes, hunters, and zoonotic experts on legislation to shore up our natural national security with wildlife disease surveillance. I hope my republican colleagues will work with me to find common ground on this effort.
▶ 0:17:01Unfortunately, so far it has been the opposite. They gutted usaid, which led a global cooperative effort to track zoonotic diseases overseas before they reach their shores. In 2021, democrats passed the american rescue plan, which included 20 million to combat wildlife trafficking, 45 million to track zoonotic diseases, and 10 million to stop the trade of wildlife that pose serious health risks. Much of that funding was rescinded by republicans before it could ever be used.
▶ 0:17:30They cut the funding for us fish and wildlife service law enforcement, leaving it severely understaffed. And they disbanded the department of homeland security team, which was poised to make significant inroads into wildlife trafficking. So once again, we are here watching my colleagues blame agencies for failing to do a job that they themselves have defunded. I agree with my colleagues and my chair that this is a major issue that we need to be addressing. However, we shouldn't be cutting the funding to do just that.
▶ 0:17:59At the same time that we demand better, we all should be demanding better. And I. With yield back to the chair. >> I thank. >> I. The full committee chairman, Mr. westman, for his five minutes. >> thank you, chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here.
▶ 0:18:24I do want to thank you for taking time to talk about an important, important subject and also understand that the witness from the us fish and wildlife service, who is scheduled to appear, came down with the flu and was was unable to appear. We wish him a speedy recovery and note that we will submit all of our questions that we would have asked.
▶ 0:18:45For the record, uh, this committee does have a strong record of looking at dangerous cartels and transnational criminal organizations, or tcos, and the damaging impacts they have on our borders, public lands and tribal communities. I know we were on a codel in tanzania a couple of years ago, and we met with former poachers who were showing us how some of these criminal organizations poach bushmeat to feed terrorist organizations.
▶ 0:19:14It's a real thing that that happens all across the world. And we have, I think, a role in helping stop that. Uh, but one of the lesser known elements of these groups is their involvement, uh, in not just in tracking of wildlife, but other natural resources.
▶ 0:19:32And as our domestic borders are secured, cartels and tcos continue to reinvent and update their operations globally in order to generate income, wildlife trafficking and related environmental crimes are now the world's fourth largest crime sector, posing serious risk to national security, public health and economic security. These illegal operations have been valued anywhere between 7 billion and $23 billion annually.
▶ 0:20:00With that kind of reward and relatively low risk, nefarious actors are incentivized to expand their networks and reach, uh, to conduct wildlife trafficking. Notably, these numbers exclude illegal logging and fishing, which also contribute to the distortion of global timber and seafood markets. Illegal logging is estimated to depress world timber prices by 7 to 16%, impairing U.S. producers ability to export and harming ecosystems.
▶ 0:20:26Illegal, unreported and unregulated or iuu fishing forces american seafood producers to face competitors who bypass the regulations and operational costs, and one of the worst offenders being the people's republic of china. With growing demand both domestically and globally for traditional medicines, fashion, jewelry, exotic pets and wild food. The illegal trade of these items is compared to the illegal trade of these goods, wreaks havoc on markets, and can create major health and security risks.
▶ 0:20:55Cartels, tcos and their expansive criminal networks have only evolved in their strategies to evade detection, using wildlife commodities like totoaba swim bladders, highly sought after in chinese medicine to fund their operations, even trading these products for precursor chemicals to produce fentanyl. The U.S. fish and wildlife service office of law enforcement only is tasked with the protection and management of wildlife, working closely with U.S.
▶ 0:21:23Customs and border protection, as well as the noaa fisheries office of law enforcement. Enforcing the law, inspecting shipments at ports of entry, and supporting international treaty compliance. Addressing the complexities of international wildlife trafficking, iuu fishing, and illegal logging requires effective interagency collaboration and careful participation in international discussions and investigations.
▶ 0:21:47As environmental crime grows up to three times the pace of the global economy, we must ensure law enforcement and wildlife management agencies have the support they need to protect our national security, and to put america first in our approach to international conservation. This hearing provides a valuable opportunity to better understand and address these ongoing threats, as well as look toward potential solutions for increasing conservation efforts globally from our american producers and sportsmen who have been involved in these efforts for many years.
▶ 0:22:14Again, I want to thank you for being here. I look forward to hearing your testimony today, and I yield back. >> the chairman of the full committee. I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. huffman from california. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and I am I am glad we're having a hearing on this subject. It's a very important subject. Uh, I cannot improve on the descriptions of this problem that have just been given. The chairman, uh, laid it out very nicely. Uh, the ranking member spoke. You, Mr.
▶ 0:22:43Chairman, as well. Uh, I am troubled, though, at the disconnect, because we all agree that this is a huge problem. It has major national security implications, as as many have already said. But if we're going to be serious about this and treat it in the way that we we say, uh, we regard it, uh, we've got to take a look at the capacity that it takes to confront a threat like this.
▶ 0:23:09We're naming it, but we got to also have a conversation about what this administration is actually doing. And that, unfortunately, requires my friends across the aisle to do something they they don't often do. And that is, you got to ask hard questions. You've got to hold this administration to a high standard. And, uh, in this case, I think if you're honest about this, you got to bring some critical analysis to the problem because, uh, we have to maintain capacity to confront these threats.
▶ 0:23:39It requires staffing. It requires expertise, intelligence coordination, specialized enforcement skills. And that's where this hearing just comes crashing into the reality of what the administration and the republican congress have been doing, because their attacks on agency staff and funding, staffing at the fish and wildlife service, uh, it has been slashed to the bone.
▶ 0:24:05They've left a handful of agents stretched across a global criminal market worth tens of billions of dollars. Major ports of entry have been left dangerously understaffed, even as traffickers rely overwhelmingly on commercial cargo and mail. They're not bringing this wildlife across the border in backpacks to the southern border.
▶ 0:24:24Um, at the same time, the trump administration shut down the wildlife and environmental crimes unit at dhs, the very unit created to target fraud, money laundering and sanction evasion tied to wildlife trafficking.
▶ 0:24:42So put plainly, this administration and its apologists have virtually taken apart the mechanisms that were designed to confront this problem that we all seem to take so seriously. And when republicans hold a hearing and call it a national security hearing without taking that part of the equation seriously, we've just got a terrible disconnect that we have to resolve.
▶ 0:25:08You can't warn about transnational criminal networks while systematically dismantling the federal capacity needed to stop them. Wildlife trafficking is expanding because enforcement has been gutted. Organized crime is embedding itself deeper because the guardrails have been torn down. And if this hearing were truly about national security, then we would be focusing on all of that. I hope maybe we will. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.
▶ 0:25:35Uh, because wildlife trafficking does not pause for political theater. It festers in these gaps. And under this administration, those gaps have been thrown wide open. Uh, I look forward to the conversation and I yield back. >> I thank the ranking member for his comments. I am now going to recognize and introduce the witnesses for today's hearing.
▶ 0:25:56First, we have doctor evan ellis, senior nonresident associate, center for strategic and international studies, carlisle barracks, pennsylvania. Mr. thomas benavides, right. Wow. I think for the first time, uh, assistant vice president for the board of directors, dallas safari club, laredo, texas. Then we have Mr. ed newcomer, us fish and wildlife service special agent, retired.
▶ 0:26:22Gardena, california. And last but not least, Mr. eric doctor eric kingman kingma, executive director, hawaii, long time association, honolulu, hawaii. Let me remind the witnesses that under the security rules, you must limit your oral statements to about five minutes. You'll see the light go on green, turn yellow. That means you got a minute to wrap it up. And if you can cut it off quickly, your whole testimony will be placed in the record. To begin your testimony, please press the on button.
▶ 0:26:50I have to be reminded that all the time. So that way we can hear everybody. So now I recognize doctor ellis for your five minutes. Chairman. Gosar. Chairman westerman. Uh, madame. >> ranking member. Ranking member. Hoffman, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify before the committee today. These are, of course, my personal views. Criminal activity by chinese groups in the western hemisphere are a serious problem for its institutions and its prosperity.
▶ 0:27:19But of course, they also threaten its resources and environmental health. These activities present unique challenges due to the limited capacity of regional governments to combat crime related to these chinese groups, chinese criminal activities in the hemisphere include, of course, iuu fishing, illegal mining, trafficking, and lumber. Flora and fauna. Precursor chemicals for synthetic drugs, and money laundering, among others.
▶ 0:27:40They involve multiple groups of different sizes, from familial networks such as the cartel and precursor chemicals to the larger 14 k and sun yee on triads, the fujian mafia, flying dragons, thai chin and fukuchi, among others. Iou fishing specifically costs latin american economies an estimated $2.3 billion per year in lost revenues.
▶ 0:28:03Chinese engage in overfishing, as well as illegal fishing techniques, such as the use of trawl nets that have already caused the collapse of fisheries in asia, strain those in africa, and are currently contributing to hardships in latin american coastal communities. In illegal mining, chinese entities purchased gold and other products locally and globally, as well as supplying materials, tools, food, and clothing to minors in illicit networks. Chinese involvement in illegal timber trafficking contributes to deforestation.
▶ 0:28:32It's also an enabler of illegal mining, and it is used to smuggle materials in other as well as other illegal trafficking activities. Chinese company baoshan lin was implicated, for example, in illegal timber exports in guyana while in peru in 2021. Luis hidalgo okamura, the governor of madre de dios province, was named in a timber smuggling case involving chinese entities.
▶ 0:28:54To give one example, in wildlife trafficking, specifically, prc demand includes that for reptile skins, shark fins, jaguar and puma skins and teeth. Butterflies, totoaba swim bladder, as the chairman mentioned, as well as seahorses and various other flora and fauna. Child chinese wildlife poaching does increase the peril to engage endangered species while generating illicit funds that undermine government control of the territories in which they operate.
▶ 0:29:22In narco trafficking, prc based groups do send precursor chemicals to laboratories in mexico and elsewhere. Fentanyl, specifically from chinese precursors, killed an estimated 48,000 americans last year by overdose in money laundering. The activities of chinese gangs and companies and financial institutions has proliferated. Opportunities for criminal groups to hide their illicit earnings in ways that are faster, cheaper and harder to detect. Specifically in the western hemisphere.
▶ 0:29:49The us treasury in 2024 stated that these organizations, quote, have become more prevalent and are now one of the key actors laundering money professionally in the united states and around the globe. Because chinese illicit networks operate both in latin america and the united states, they potentially support also prc espionage activities here.
▶ 0:30:10With respect to human trafficking, anecdotal evidence suggests that a racket involving pre-payments to move ethnic chinese through networks from the prc to the us through multiple latin american countries, collaborating with local chinese gangs and chinese communities.
▶ 0:30:25Specifically, in 2024, evidence suggests that more than 30,000 chinese were intercepted crossing the southern border from the us into the into the united states from mexico, creating opportunities for prc security services to potentially use at least some of these for the purpose of espionage in a future conflict with the united states.
▶ 0:30:44The phenomenon of informal prc police stations in the region also shows that prc interfaces with this diaspora in the region in nontransparent and coercive ways, creating further opportunities for espionage and other, uh, damaging activity.
▶ 0:30:59With respect to recommendations, for me, it is important for the us to increase its cooperation with law enforcement and intelligence bodies in other countries in the hemisphere, as well as being part of the prioritization that we see now through the new national security strategy on the western hemisphere.
▶ 0:31:16While latin america often pushes back on us pressure regarding chinese commercial activities in the hemisphere, for me, cooperation on chinese organized crime could be a win win for our relationship with the region, helping it to combat illicit activity with violate our collective sovereignty, our collective resources, destroy our collective environment, and undermine the rule of law.
▶ 0:31:39But as well for the us, expanded cooperation with latin america on organized crime not only would strengthen our protection of resources and the environment, but also to help us to better understand chinese networks in the region that potentially impact our national security, while at the same time showcasing to our partners the harms to their own interests of improperly monitored and controlled prc activities in the hemisphere that we share. Thank you very much for your time and considering my testimony today. >> thank you, doctor ellis. I now recognize Mr. benavidez for.
▶ 0:32:14>> uh, thank you. Chairman, ranking member dexter and members of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify. I am tom benavidez and assistant vice president for the board of directors at dallas safari club. I, along with my family, have been ranching cattle in texas for generations. My parents ingrained in me the value of being a good steward for our habitat, our livestock and wildlife alike.
▶ 0:32:35Dsc and our separate charitable arm, dallas safari club foundation, are us based conservation organizations that put conservation first and hunting second. Working with wildlife departments worldwide to promote science based wildlife management and sustainable use. Every year, both organizations award millions of dollars in grants for research, anti-poaching, habitat reintroduction, reducing human wildlife conflict, and much more.
▶ 0:33:02I've been very lucky to experience many wild places on this planet, which led me to my love of rhinoceros. My wife and I have dedicated much of our life to establishing and maintaining a viable private breeding program of southern white rhino here in the united states, in the hope that we can help save the species. And someday, perhaps, my children can be part of repopulating repopulating rhino in their natural habitat. While I applaud the hard work being done by american zoos and other ngos, the strategy differs.
▶ 0:33:33That differs from that of private breeders, as zoos main purpose is to exhibit, educate and inform the public to raise awareness about the current plight of endangered species and species like rhino. My purpose is to enhance the survival of the species by producing more rhino and moving them to a place that they can actually be protected. I'm trying to defend the existing individuals and increase the world's population. While raising awareness is important, it does not result in a single new rhino, nor does it place anti-poaching measures in place.
▶ 0:34:06To successfully propagate, we must move out of traditional ngo tactics and encourage programs like ours. Conservation is simple, but it requires common sense and replicating how rhinos thrive in the wild. What can an america first administration do? Sadly, the us government has been more of a hindrance than a help from arbitrary red tape that has no basis in statute to permitting delays and requirements that cause undue stress on animals.
▶ 0:34:30All I ask is that the us government be helpful rather than agnostic antagonistic. In 1977, trade in rhino horn was banned. Importantly, when this ban happened, there was no legal framework to regulate the trade of horn. 85% of the african rhinos alive then have been killed. It's easy to say that the ban has failed miserably. The us must support legalizing the regulated trade of horn.
▶ 0:34:58And in case you didn't know, rhino horn can be removed with no negative impact to the animal and it does grow back. My hope is that the united states will stop their de facto, decades long support of the black market and open avenues for the regulated trade of horn. Nothing less than this will be sufficient to save rhino. Thank you very much for your time. >> and your testimony. Now, I recognize Mr. newcomer for his. >> Mr. chairman, members of the committee. Good afternoon.
▶ 0:35:25My name is ed newcomer and I was a special agent for the us fish and wildlife service for more than 20 years. I worked primarily on international wildlife trafficking cases and worked overseas for extended periods of time, including a six month assignment in southeast asia and a five year assignment as the senior us wildlife law enforcement official covering nine countries in southern africa.
▶ 0:35:51As an agent, I successfully served under the bush, obama, trump, and biden administrations. It was under the trump administration that I worked with political appointees at the state department and us ambassadors to draft and implement the us visa ineligibility for wildlife and timber traffickers. No other country in the world has a visa rule like that. It's a tool that helps us keep foreign nationals involved in wildlife trafficking out of the united states.
▶ 0:36:19I currently teach courses on criminal justice and administrative law at california state university at dominguez hills, and I serve as the international law enforcement advisor for the nonprofit organization known as wildlife investigators training alliance. International. And wildlife and timber trafficking is a major source of revenue for criminals around the world. It generates many billions of dollars in illegal revenue every year.
▶ 0:36:47The groups that control smuggling routes, they don't care what contraband flows along those routes. They only care about money. Accordingly, the same routes used to smuggle drugs, guns and people are also used to smuggle wildlife. But our wildlife is not as renewable as we might think.
▶ 0:37:09While criminals can cook up more methamphetamine or manufacture more guns, if we allow wildlife to go extinct, um, we can't make more rhinos. We can't make more california condors, sea turtles or grizzly bears. International crime in general creates a national security problems for the united states.
▶ 0:37:29Criminal operatives, corrupt law enforcement and judicial systems around the world, and this creates opportunities for us adversaries to capitalize on corrupt systems and foreign officials. While I was serving in africa, I was made aware of a map of chinese infrastructure projects that overlaid perfectly against a map of elephant and rhino poaching hotspots. That's no coincidence.
▶ 0:37:58Members of chinese wildlife trafficking criminal groups embed themselves around these infrastructure projects and arrive with briefcases full of cash. That's money that represents several years of salary for the local wildlife investigator or ranger. International wildlife trafficking also poses serious risks to the health and economic stability of the united states. Every year, smugglers bring live wild birds into the us from vietnam.
▶ 0:38:25These birds are frequently hidden on the smuggler's bodies while they fly inside the passenger compartments of long haul commercial flights. The most virulent strain of bird flu happens to come from wild birds in vietnam, and it kills about 50% of the humans who contract it.
▶ 0:38:44Imagine the consequences if that strain makes one small mutation that allows it to easily jump from human to human, while maintaining that lethality. The highest death rate during the covid pandemic was 3%. I gotta be honest. I lay awake at night wondering what will happen to this country if an easily transmissible, high mortality variant of bird flu arrives on an airplane.
▶ 0:39:11There are other zoonotic diseases that have an impact on our national security. Newcastle's disease infects domestic poultry and comes from wild birds like parrots. We know that an outbreak of newcastle's disease in southern california during the early 2000 originated from wild parrots smuggled into the us from mexico. That outbreak resulted in the destruction of more than 3 million chickens and economic damages approaching $300 million.
▶ 0:39:40It literally put farmers out of business and raised prices for americans at the grocery store. Combating international wildlife trafficking requires strong international relationships. Cooperation is really the best way to put america first in africa. I helped capture three major wildlife traffickers in botswana, malawi and south africa. That was only possible because of the strong, trusted and mutual relationships the us had with those countries.
▶ 0:40:09I'm very concerned that the chronic underfunding and understaffing at us fish and wildlife service, law enforcement and generally the dismantling of us government agencies is putting us at a real disadvantage when it comes to combating international wildlife trafficking. I love this committee's motto putting conservation or putting conservatives back into conservation. There's no question that traditional conservative values are consistent with preserving our natural resources.
▶ 0:40:38Thank you very much. I look forward to any questions you have. >> chairman, ranking member dexter and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on this important topic. I serve as executive director of the hawaii longline association, representing 150 us flagged hawaii based vessels targeting tuna and swordfish.
▶ 0:41:04The hawaii longline fleet is a major fishery in the united states, and we're the largest food producer in the state of hawaii. Annual landings exceed 30 million pounds, with a dockside value of roughly 120 million. The hawaii, the landed value of the hawaii longline fleet consistently ranks honolulu harbor within the nation's top seven ports. In terms of fisheries economic value, around 80% of our fishing efforts on the high seas amongst foreign competition. We also face daily competition in the us market from foreign seafood.
▶ 0:41:31Seafood imports and most of the seafood comes from fleets that are heavily subsidized, poorly monitored and subject to minimal environmental laws and enforcement. By contrast, us fisheries operate under the some of the most stringent regulatory frameworks in the world and is unmatched in terms of monitoring and enforcement. This makes the united states a global leader in marine conservation, protection and management. Despite this leadership, usc food producers have lost or continue to lose serious ground in the us market.
▶ 0:42:03Imports, often 30 to 50% or more cheaper, are displacing domestic products across nearly every major fishery. Noaa reports that 70 to 85% of seafood consumed in the us is imported. In 2023, imported seafood totaled 25.5 billion, contributing to a seafood trade deficit exceeding $20 billion over the last 30 years. The inflation adjusted value of foreign imports in the united states has increased by 130%.
▶ 0:42:31Foreign producers benefit from lower labor costs, government subsidies, weaker environmental standards, and cheaper processing. Advantages. Advantages us fishermen do not have. It's estimated that 15% of wild caught seafood imported in the united states comes from iuu fisheries, and iuu fishing includes transnational criminal networks, human trafficking, and forced labor. State sponsored unregulated fleets are underreported by licensed vessels and harvests of endangered or protected species.
▶ 0:43:01Iuu fishing undermines conservation efforts, distorts markets, threatens food safety, and harms workers, preventing iuu associated seafood from entering the united states market is essential for national security, marine conservation, economic fairness, and consumer protection. The united states seafood market is among the world's largest. As such, the united states government has a tremendous ability to level the playing field between domestic fisheries and international fleets through the power of market access. For example, the marine mammal protection act.
▶ 0:43:32Import provisions give the united states a powerful tool to level the playing field. However, after nearly 50 years on the books, the national marine fisheries service issued its first foreign fishery determinations just last year in september of 2500 fisheries from 46 countries, only 9% were found to be not comparable to us marine mammal protection standards. Most industrial fleets, including china's, receive passing grades.
▶ 0:43:56This was a missed opportunity to hold foreign fleets to the same standards required of us fishermen. China is the world's largest fishing nation and its global fisheries reach is unmatched. Chinese fishing vessels fish in all the world's ocean and the exclusive economic zones of 90 countries. China's fishing footprint and influence has grown tremendously in the us or in the pacific islands region.
▶ 0:44:18And, for example, chinese tuna vessels operate in the of the federated states of micronesia and the republic of marshall islands, both former us territories and current cofa states. Chinese flagged vessels offload to chinese owned processing and and chinese owned distribution companies that ship fresh daily into the united states. China also maintains close ties with kiribati, hawaii's nearest foreign neighbor.
▶ 0:44:44The kiribati line islands lie roughly 1000 miles to the south of pearl harbor, and china's growing presence there raises geopolitical and iu related concerns. China's distant water fleet is not monitored international standards, and its reporting is widely viewed as unreliable, and multiple investigations have documented forced labor in their supply chain. No doubt, seafood supply chains are complex and opaque.
▶ 0:45:10A single fish may be caught from a vessel from country a and waters of country b, transshipped at sea from a vessel from country c, and then processed in the country d and then imported into the united states.
▶ 0:45:23Certainly there are actions the united states could take, such as restricting imports that fail to meet us standards, strengthening international engagement through rfmos, eliminating harmful foreign subsidies, implementing electronic supply chain tracking that requires noaa import seafood import monitoring program for all species, as well as expanding country of origin labeling to restaurants.
▶ 0:45:45Um benefits from these actions will be strengthening ocean conservation, supporting long term viability of american fisheries, and protecting us consumers. Thank you. >> members for their questions. I'll start with Mr. begich. Uh, the gentleman from alaska. >> thank you, Mr. chair. I'll start with you, doctor kingma. Um, I represent alaska, where commercial fishing is our largest private employer, and our fishermen are among the most regulated in the world.
▶ 0:46:17Yet cheap foreign imports devastate prices for alaska salmon, pollock, crab and other species. You note noaa gave china's fleet a passing grade under mpa import provisions. How was that possible, given china's documented iuu practices? And what should congress do, in your view, to ensure those provisions protect american fishermen? >> yeah, thank you very much for the question, congressman.
▶ 0:46:44And hawaii certainly shares a lot of the same concerns with alaska and the importance of fisheries to our state. Um, we were highly surprised to find that noaa made those comparability findings for china. And I think one, um, one remedy might be that congress directs the national marine fisheries service to immediately, um, investigate those determinations again and quickly, because we don't necessarily believe they they made the right call there. Thank you.
▶ 0:47:13>> um, a follow up question, you noted that 70 to 85% of us seafood is imported, with an estimated 15% from iu fisheries. Alaska's invested heavily in traceability because we can compete on quality. When consumers have accurate information. How would expanding the seafood import monitoring program and requiring country of origin labeling for restaurants benefit fishing communities in alaska and hawaii? >> yeah, I think the and thanks for the question.
▶ 0:47:41I think, um, country of origin labeling is a is a critical issue for american seafood producers and most of the like I said, most of the imports, as you mentioned, are from foreign sources. Currently, the national marine fisheries service seafood import monitoring program only covers, I believe, 13 species. So it doesn't cover all species imported in the united states. So that's a start. It does cover most of the imports, but not all.
▶ 0:48:07And I think there's some, some, um, differences in how seafood imports are coming into the united states with what, uh, harmonized tariff number or schedule and how they're actually being, um, certified and entering in.
▶ 0:48:22So there's there could be some improvements in the, in the certification or supply chain tracking in the united states, including digitizing those supply chains like the eu has just done for their seafood imports. So there could be major steps taken there. Um, and then country of origin for, for restaurants currently only applies to retail. So um, say alaska salmon fillet has the origin.
▶ 0:48:51Um, but then once that product is and only like I said, is maintained for retail but not restaurants. And most seafood is actually consumed in restaurants. And so you really don't know what you're getting. Um, so I do think there could be a lot of room for improvement to, for consumers to understand and make the choice of whether seafood, um, where they want to buy their seafood and where it comes from. >> thank you.
▶ 0:49:16Uh, doctor ellis, um, you mentioned illegal mining, uh, in your opening remarks. Uh, illegal mining denies citizens of other nations the benefit of mineral wealth. It funds illicit criminal activities. And of course, it destroys the environment. What do we need to do, uh, to end this practice? >> specifically, you need a series of controls. In part, the.
▶ 0:49:46>> what actions would you would you recommend congress take? >> uh, I think specifically, number one, a emphasis on increased law enforcement collaboration, um, as well as the strengthening of relevant institutions of our local partners. I'll give you an example. Uh, peru's control over what comes out of mines is relatively good relative to bolivia. We have an opportunity with the new bolivian government of rodrigo paz now, who is very willing to cooperate with the united states.
▶ 0:50:10But there is a need for strengthening oversight of, oftentimes gold, which is illegally mined in places like madre de dios, peru, but is laundered through bolivian mines. I think working more closely with the bolivians, as well as having expanded traceability, much like you have with, um, you know, african conflict diamonds and things like that could could help to do that. And that certainly also applies in places like the interior of suriname, the interior of guyana, the interior of colombia, where where again, it's not just about the drugs, although it's certainly about that. It's about.
▶ 0:50:39And the orinoco. The orinoco belt in venezuela, where we have, uh, you know, new leverage over the current government, is probably another place where we can increase those controls. >> thank you very much. Um, I notice that my time is about to expire. So many more questions, but I appreciate, uh, everyone's testimony and participation in today's hearing. And with that, I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. The gentleman from illinois, Mr. quigley, now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate the accommodation.
▶ 0:51:09Um, I waved on to this hearing because I'm a co-chair of the animal protection caucus. Have several bills related to this topic. Wildlife confiscations network act and the captive primate safety act. Um, Mr. newcomer, let me ask you.
▶ 0:51:24We've seen a disturbing number of stories about the smuggling of spider monkey babies across the southern border from 23 to 25, 109 baby spider monkeys were confiscated at the us mexico border, and the us fish and wildlife officials say that's only a fraction of what's the driving factors for this particular trade, and what's the process?
▶ 0:51:51And are we succeeding in getting those confiscated wildlife, um, animals into accredited care facilities? >> so the the really tragic thing about the spider monkey trade is that it really comes down to the fact that they're cute. And what's really driving that trade is that it's social media and the ability to use the internet to buy and sell and offer to sell exotic animals very easily.
▶ 0:52:20Um, if if any of us picked up our phones right now and just went to instagram and searched monkey or baby monkey, we would find hundreds, hundreds of videos of baby spider monkeys wearing diapers, wearing clothes, looking very friendly and dancing around. And every time one of those ads or one of those posts gets on social media, it creates demand and people say, gosh, I want a baby spider monkey.
▶ 0:52:49And that drives the trade. And that allows, uh, once people start going out and looking for it, it allows the poachers to find a market very easily. There was a recent, uh, I think it was a cbs news report that demonstrated just how easy it is, uh, to get a spider monkey. A reporter in texas just made a few inquiries using social media, and before she knew it, she was meeting at home depot parking lots, actually, having baby spider monkeys offered to her.
▶ 0:53:18Now, as to your second part of your question, for years, the us fish and wildlife service has struggled with how to place live exotic animals. We're we're unique in law enforcement and that our evidence that we see is often has to be fed and cared for. We can't just put it in an evidence locker if it's a live animal. So during my career, there were many occasions where I arrested somebody at the airport, you know, 11:00, 12:00 at night with a live animal strapped to their body.
▶ 0:53:47I now have to take that person to jail. But when that's over, I have to figure out how to feed this animal and how to care for it. And in the past, it was really just individual agents and wildlife inspectors who knew somebody at a zoo or knew a wildlife rehabilitator that they could call at two in the morning and say, hey, can you help me?
▶ 0:54:05The there's a there's been a recent move to develop the wildlife confiscation network and live wildlife confiscation network, and that has been incredibly helpful to us fish and wildlife service law enforcement.
▶ 0:54:19It's a network that basically has other people who are already connected in and with numbers and call trees, um, so that if an animal comes in to say, lax, uh, whether it's a monkey or a snake or whatever, um, and it's confiscated. The us fish and wildlife service agent or wildlife inspector simply has to make a call to the wildlife confiscation network coordinator. >> and and I appreciate that given the short time. Yeah, yeah. Sorry.
▶ 0:54:48I don't mean to cut you off, but but. And I was at born free in south texas. You lived this. Do you think the word is out there about the concerns for the proximity, uh, the health issues of, uh, these primates having close contact with humans? I mean, are we trying to educate the public on that as well? >> that's a real concern and a real issue. I don't think the public realizes just how dangerous a primate can be, whether it's disease or not.
▶ 0:55:17But once that primate gets older, they bite and they scratch, and that those scratches can cause serious diseases in humans. The sad thing is that a lot of these primates, as they get older, they will have their canine teeth removed so that they can't bite and that, you know, that's a horrible thing to do to an animal that relies on its teeth as part of its just day to day living. >> can you some of the other health issues that come from primates that you could list now, the oh, disease issues.
▶ 0:55:46>> yeah, because they're primates. Just about every disease that humans can get, primates can get. So it could be anything from, you know, drug resistant tuberculosis, um, herpes can be spread through primates. Uh, of course, ebola. There's all kinds of nasty things that people can get from primates. >> we appreciate your work. I appreciate the entire panel and their service. Thank you. I truly appreciate the accommodation. Thank you so much. >> thank you for your interest. And the gentleman from mississippi, miss rozelle, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:56:18Before I get into my questions, I. Mr. newcomer, I just want to thank you for what you've done. I spent my entire life as a local federal and state police officer before coming to the congress, and I too have had many times where at 2:00 in the morning, we had to figure out something to get something to somebody. And so usually you looked on one of your fellow members on the shift to, hey, do you know somebody we can take this animal to or whatever it was?
▶ 0:56:44I'd like to submit for the record some questions that I will have for you, uh, later on, because I, I sure would like to talk to you some more about funding and about some different things that we could do, uh, together, that I could help support the former mission that you had and now the mission that you do have. But thank you, Mr. chairman. And thank you, all of you, for being here today and giving us such good information. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:57:08Uh, in a coastal district like mine, uh, shrimping is not just a talking point. It's it's an economic reality in a way of life. Family owned fishing boats, shrimpers and small processors are in the communities and depend on fair access to the marketplace to survive. Right now, these producers are being squeezed out not by better products or practices, but by foreign shrimp entering our market prices at no price.
▶ 0:57:35A good american would even consider could match, uh, that price gap is it's not an accident. It's driven by dumping government support and serious allegations of labor abuse abroad. Uh, when shrimp, uh, produced under these conditions is allowed into the us market, it doesn't just harm domestic producers. It distorts the entire system.
▶ 0:57:59It rewards bad actors, drives down prices, and makes it nearly impossible for us shrimpers to even break even. I had them calling me last year. By the time they filled up with fuel and ice and deckhands and work, they were behind. They were going to lose money. American shrimpers are not. We're not asking for special treatment. Uh, we're asking for a level playing field. And, uh, once, once we will get to that and get through with this.
▶ 0:58:26The forced labor that we've seen from the chinese environmental abuse and some of these unfair trade practices. Uh, we want to we want to take care of our local folks. And that's what I'm here for, to try to do that. Doctor king, uh, I got a few questions for you regarding our illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing. It's unfair. Imports continue to go unchecked. What's the future look like for domestic shrimping in our communities?
▶ 0:58:57>> thank you, congressman, for the question. I think you can replace, um, you know, gulf shrimp with every single major, uh, us fishery in those remarks. We are losing and we're losing rapidly. Um, the same case for hawaii, alaska fisheries, uh, east coast gulf, you name it, west coast. Um, the us market is huge and it's powerful.
▶ 0:59:21So we have to use the accessibility to the us market to support domestic fishermen and level that playing field. So somehow, uh, certainly restricting imports that are subsidized, that are from iuu is the immediate start. Um, and then also on the regulatory aspect, leveling the playing field from the regulatory frameworks that we're subject to, those should also be applied to foreign fisheries.
▶ 0:59:47And in doing so you support marine conservation and you support us domestic fishermen. >> thank you. Would you agree that allowing imports produced with forced labor in the united states market directly undermines american workers and lawful business? >> yes, 100%. >> what policy recommendations, recommendations do you have to curb the importation of shrimp so our shrimpers can fairly compete?
▶ 1:00:13>> yeah, I think it's, um, you know, like I said, ensuring that the imports that are coming in meet us standards and in meeting us standards, we have to figure out how the how that fishery product is produced. And it's produced with forced labor. It has no business being in the united states. If it's also if it's, you know, subsidized. And if they don't follow us environmental standards like marine mammal protection act, it has no business being in the united states. >> thank you. And I look forward to continuing this conversation. And, Mr. chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:00:43>> thank the gentleman from mississippi. I'm now going to go a little out of order. I'm going to go next, uh, just uh, because I've got votes, uh, cleaning across the campus here. So, uh, Mr. uh, newcomer wouldn't, uh, you could spend all the money you want to with law enforcement, but you have to have compliance or help from the public. Would you say that would be the case? >> I'm sorry I missed the very first part. >> so you can have all the enforcement you want, but you need the help from the public, do you not? >> oh, yeah. Absolutely.
▶ 1:01:14>> so if you were to empower, uh, the average citizen to be part of this situation where they start looking out for animals and really will talk and tell, you can be a real big impact to that. Could you not? >> uh, yeah. >> I think if you if you empowered the average citizen. Excuse me, average citizen. Yeah. You could make a.
▶ 1:01:33>> so if you were to make your, your success model that the elimination of, uh, these animals being transported and trafficked, you could make that part of the supposition to that would increase money. Right. And I see in a fund where I'm going with this is I have a bill, okay. It's called the lasso act. And what it basically does is it takes all the revenues coming off of public lands and turns it over to social security. Well, that's going to do. Now you've got an interest in it.
▶ 1:02:01So now you're going to be investing your time and energy if you see something illegal coming up, because that takes away from your benefit from the public lands. Would you agree? >> well I don't I've made qualified agreement. Okay. I think that sometimes there's a there's a fine line that has can't be crossed where it actually creates a mechanism for laundering.
▶ 1:02:27And sometimes if there's a if there's a legal way to deal with wildlife, it creates the perfect opportunity to hide illegal wildlife transactions. So it's I understand what you're saying for sure. And, uh, you know, my, my gut instinct is to say, yeah, you're right. But then I remember cases that I worked on where people actually hid illegal wildlife in a in a legal mechanism. >> gotcha.
▶ 1:02:53I like for the record, I'd like to put in the record all these little different hits that were picked from the border just in arizona for different years. I mean, parrots to bladders. You can't believe it's in this thing. So. So, uh, done. Um, Mr. benavidez, hunting has played a big role in in big animals, particularly, uh, how could it help us with these small animals? >> uh, hunting.
▶ 1:03:20Typically, when you see the people that are on the forefront of conservation, they are hunters. It's an experience that you interact with the environment in a very different way. You know, most hunters will look at things, whether they're megafauna or smaller animals, and they'll say, okay, well, to to interact the best that we can. We look at environment, right? We look at maintaining a healthy environment and we look at maintaining a healthy habitat. What does that habitat support? How can we responsibly manage those numbers? Right. And one of the ways to manage numbers is actually reproduction.
▶ 1:03:48You know, it is a renewable resource because biologically an animal reproduces. So I think in that management methodology you can say that. Yeah. Uh, for any size animal, it is a way to, to, to healthily, uh, maintain a population of that. >> okay. Doctor ellis, do you agree with him on that aspect, that hunting is very helpful to some of these aspects for increased animals production?
▶ 1:04:21>> well, for me, I think hunting is, is and the connection that hunters have with the environment is, is is a logical part of the broader issue of stewardship. And, you know, proper regulation and freedoms to hunting are part of the broader, um, you know, regulations of, of the environment writ large. So I think I would, I would concur. >> is there you know, when you look at that, some of these, uh, fines are minute. They're small comparatively to the crime. Would increasing those fines make a difference?
▶ 1:04:51You know, and making an example out of a crawler, a crawler or something like that for why would that help? >> yeah, I think to a certain extent, thanks. But also we have limited ability to find foreign vessels of, of another country. Um, that only occurs if they're fishing in us waters. But we do have an incredible ability to limit or prevent access to the us market. So I think we should focus on the accessibility rather than, um, fine, onto a foreign vessel.
▶ 1:05:20>> yeah, I'd be very interested because in alaska they do have this whole matrix put together and they they're showing increases in all their production. So at least that's my understanding. The gentleman from alaska that happens. So maybe some models like alaska would be something very good to start looking at. Okay I'm done. I'm going to turn it over now to the ranking member for her five minutes okay. >> great. Thank you very much. Um, Mr.
▶ 1:05:48Newcomer and really appreciate everyone's. And obviously we have bipartisan agreement on a lot of this. So look forward to the questions. Mr. newcomer, in your experience, why is wildlife trafficking a potential health threat to the us? >> well, you know, gosh, I talked about bird flu. And that's the thing that keeps me up at night, right? Yeah. But but there are a lot of diseases that can come in, uh, not only through live wildlife, but wildlife parks, you know, things like, um, you know, ebola, as we talked about things that are really scary.
▶ 1:06:19Uh, but but another scary thing is the unknown. Like what diseases are on the horizon. What's the next disease? Uh, what's going to mutate tomorrow that becomes highly infectious and deadly? And all of that can come in anytime you have when you have not very many enforcement people trying to monitor this kind of thing. It's just a it's just a risk. >> thank you for that.
▶ 1:06:41And if a pathogen was introduced into wildlife in the us that had the potential to make a jump from wildlife to people, how would we know about it when we have so few people? Enforce me. >> yeah. With so few enforcement people, the most likely way we're going to know about it is we're going to have, you know, the typhoid mary, and we're going to have an outbreak of a big problem, and people are going to start dying or getting really sick. The best way to know about it, of course, is to catch it early.
▶ 1:07:07And that's through, you know, robust wildlife inspection officers numbers at the border points and the ports of entry, uh, to look for illegal wildlife coming in, because once that happens, the wildlife can go to quarantine and be tested. And then we know, okay, we got we have a problem or we don't. >> very much agree with that. And are there. It's the same in humans like containment versus anyway we'll move on. Um, are there enough.
▶ 1:07:34And I think we've already heard this pretty clearly, but are there enough fish and wildlife, um, inspectors at ports, uh, to manage the volume of trafficking? And if not, why not? >> absolutely not. There, there is not. And I can give you a specific example. I recently learned, uh, through my contacts that there is one wildlife inspector based at the port of seattle.
▶ 1:07:56The port of seattle is a major port with people and cargo and everything else coming and going from all parts of the pacific rim, a high risk area. One wildlife inspector cannot handle mail, sea cargo, air cargo and passengers. It's not possible. Yeah, so same is true of agents. The the numbers of wildlife inspectors are and agents are historically low and just I don't want to use up your time, but just briefly keep this in mind.
▶ 1:08:25The us fish and wildlife service just agent force has been authorized at its at the highest to be around 250 253 agents. That has not changed for 40 years. Yet. The mission of the fish and wildlife service and its responsibilities have grown tremendously in that time. I used to say when I was a first line supervisor in la, my my boss and I would always joke, hire me, give me twice as many agents and twice as many inspectors today, they'll all be busy tomorrow.
▶ 1:08:58>> okay. And I appreciate you elevating. Not only that, we haven't increased the number of agents in 40 years, but we probably have a huge number of unfilled positions right now. Okay. >> absolutely. It's I can understand it's historically low, like right around 100 or maybe maybe 170, something like that. >> obviously we have a lot of work to do there. Um, Mr. benavides, I wanted to ask you about chronic wasting disease. Um, which I know is a neurologically degenerative disease in deer and elk.
▶ 1:09:27And I practiced for quite a while in colorado, and it was something that we thought of a lot in that area. It has a small but real risk that, um, chronic wasting disease could affect human health. Is it fair to say it is a threat to the to the sport hunting industry in the us? >> um, well, yes.
▶ 1:09:48Obviously, you know, coming from texas, it's something that texas parks and wildlife, our state agencies looking uh, a lot into, especially over the past, you know, couple of years of a lot of new things have been put in place to monitor it. Uh, I'm not a biologist by education. And my specialty really is megafauna like rhino, you know, undulate specifically. But I think any communicable disease, any responsible person should take a look at monitoring.
▶ 1:10:14>> and just so we know, like it is an extremely infectious like problem. And so it captured the imagination of a lot of the hunters that I was interacting with. Clearly, because nobody wants to kill their children with, you know, an elk, um, steak. So would you support funding to be allocated to states and tribes to track chronic wasting disease, other diseases like it in the wild as a way to try to manage it, and in some places contain it.
▶ 1:10:41>> uh, coming from texas, I feel like our state agency is doing more than a sufficient job. So for us, I don't think it would be necessary. >> okay. And, um, in my last two seconds, I'm going to go over. Hopefully, the representative will give me some grace. Mr. king or doctor kingma, you had articulated several threats to longline fishing, but there is one that I didn't see.
▶ 1:11:01And this is committee is about to have its second hearing on deep seabed mining, a destructive, risky and economically dubious pursuit of eccentric billionaires, and many in the tuna industry have expressed concern about it. How does the hawaii longline association feel about deep sea mining? >> yeah, thank you for the question. Um, we're concerned about the impacts of deep sea mining on on tuna populations and their distribution.
▶ 1:11:28Um, we look forward to some more of the science being available because it is quite unknown. Um, at this point, um, we're we're highly concerned. >> thank you. I appreciate the indulgence. >> I now recognize the gentleman from ohio representative joyce for his five minutes. >> thank you very much, Mr. chair. >> um.
▶ 1:11:52>> doctor ellis, as a co-chair of the international conservation caucus, I'm committed to advancing international conservation initiatives that strengthen our national security. In december 2024, congress authorized a new entity, the united states foundation for national security and counterterrorism. His job is to bring together public and private partners, protect key landscapes and seascapes, and stop criminal and armed groups from exploiting wildlife, forests, and fisheries.
▶ 1:12:16In your written testimony, you describe how chinese criminal networks are deeply involved in unregulated fishing, illegal mining, timber trafficking and wildlife smuggling across latin america. Can you discuss how those activities undermine the governance and the regional and regional stability, and what the implications that has the us national security interests in that region? >> so thank you very much for the question.
▶ 1:12:38Um, for me, these activities and they're multidimensional, as you alluded to, uh, impacts us through their impacts on the region, but also impacts us directly, obviously through the region. For example, when you talk about iuu fishing, you're depleting, uh, local fisheries and you're hurting coastal communities, which indirectly causes instability and thus can lead to migration and governance issues and other things. Uh, the issues with illegal mining, uh, not only have environmental costs, but there's an entire illicit industry that contributes to informality.
▶ 1:13:07It contributes to other types of criminality, money, money laundering of drugs and things like that, and thus undermines democracy and undermines governance stability in the region. Obviously, when you talk about, uh, flora and fauna trafficking as well, you're not only talking about the endangerment of species, but opportunities to be able to to launder money through those activities.
▶ 1:13:26Um, more broadly, when you look at us security directly, and I alluded in my testimony, of course, you know, to illegal trafficking and smuggling of persons through chinese communities and how that contributes directly to flows for security issues. Um, but beyond that, of course, many of these activities create other, um, opportunities for money laundering.
▶ 1:13:46There are cases in which chinese triads and other entities in the united states, uh, they have money that they are laundering for groups like the sinaloa cartel and others, and then they are laundering that within the united states. And so there's also a father in the united states, a, an issue of, of presence.
▶ 1:14:04And in the americas more broadly, if we ever have to fight a war against the prc in the indo-pacific, it's not just directly the homeland and the people who are coming across the southern border, but it's also other areas where us southern command and others could have their equities put into jeopardy.
▶ 1:14:19And so there are concerns with respect to, for example, iuu fishing and the possibility of espionage assets and other things to hide within those vast iu fleets which go, uh, on the deep water side from the galapagos, ecuador, you know, peru, chile, uh, you know, through the straits of magellan, argentina, putting in uruguay, etc. And so it's really multidimensional.
▶ 1:14:39It's the idea that when you have, uh, people, networks and money and physical presence, uh, with an adversary nation, although it's not all directed by that government, it creates opportunities for that government to want to do harm to you in times of conflict. >> thank you very much, doctor kingma. The us has a strong interest in sustainable fisheries and in limiting the impacts of foreign fishing fleets on governance and markets. In your written testimony, you describe how china, as the world's largest fishing nation, responsible for around 30% of all the high seas.
▶ 1:15:10In your view, how did china subsidize fishing fleets, influence other nations economically and politically? And what impact do these operations have on the united states? >> yeah, thank you for the question. I believe china's fishing fleets serve multiple purposes, uh, for that country. And it's more than, uh, fishing and food security, but also geopolitical influence and dominance.
▶ 1:15:36Um, and so from our experience and from from being on the ground in many pacific island countries, you feel that presence and you see those vessels and our fleet in particular, fishes, um, on the high seas, most of our most of the time. And we see a growing, uh, level of presence of chinese fishing vessels in our neighborhood.
▶ 1:15:56Um, and so I think the united states has to be highly concerned with, um, where this is going and utilize everything in its power, including the access to the us market to prevent, um, the expansion of chinese fishing effort that we believe is is certainly unregulated and unmonitored.
▶ 1:16:18Um, and really to understand their objectives and, and we certainly understand that they are closing in um, certainly in the, in the pacific island region, to the extent that we've never seen, you know, previously. Thank you. >> Mr. benavides. Us leadership is critical to global efforts to protect endangered species. And your written testimony, you argue that the international ban on rhino horn trade has failed and empowered illicit criminal, uh, illicit market criminal networks.
▶ 1:16:46Based on your experience, how could regulations be designed to conserve wildlife and protect local communities? Even in controversial cases like the rhino horn trade, what safeguards would be necessary to prevent abuse within a legal market? >> uh, well, specifically when you talk about rhino horn, uh, and U.S. involvement in cites, the charge of the cites membership is to support the request of the host country. Right.
▶ 1:17:09Uh, in my written testimony, I included a link that shows the high court of south africa ruled that rhino horn is a privately owned item and is tradable for the purposes of conservation. So, uh, those initiatives and money that could be garnished from the private trade of horn could be put into anti-poaching programs. And the proliferation of the species. And south africa actually has outside of the chipping program to track international movement of the horn.
▶ 1:17:32There is what they call rhodus, which is the rhino dna index system, which they can actually tie the cells from the horn directly to the host animal so you can monitor illegal trade versus legal trade. I apologize for going over time. >> no, I certainly appreciate it. I realize I ran over and I begged the consideration of the chair. At this time. I thought the question might be worthwhile. Thank you. Or his answer would be worthwhile. >> it was, I appreciate that. Thank you.
▶ 1:17:59Um, we're going to go ahead and extend, uh, some time for additional questions, and, uh, I'll recognize myself for an additional five minutes. Uh, Mr. newcomer, what are the penalties for illegal wildlife trafficking? Well. >> they. >> vary greatly. >> depending on the law involved, obviously.
▶ 1:18:16Um, shocking to most americans, I think, would be the information that the endangered species act, uh, is at maximum a class a misdemeanor, which means that the maximum penalty would be a year in jail and a $100,000 fine. >> how much does a trafficker how much can they earn? Typically. >> uh, you know, traffickers. I've personally chased, um, uh, you know, even a butterfly trafficker I arrested once, you know, made $100,000 a year.
▶ 1:18:44He tried to sell me $300,000 worth of protected butterflies. Wow. So it can be a lot of money. >> so do you think that in your professional experience, the penalties for wildlife trafficking should be increased to help deter wildlife trafficking? >> I think that would be a very positive step in the right direction. Okay.
▶ 1:19:03>> uh, in your written testimony, you describe the lack of quote policies, directives or guidance on how attachés are to conduct their operations overseas, what the expectations are of attachés in building and maintaining interagency relationships, or how us based agents are supposed to interact with attache's.
▶ 1:19:21To your knowledge, since your retirement in 2022, has this policy guidance been updated, and if not, what specific guidance would you like to see implemented for attachés to help improve the work of the fish and wildlife service investigative offices overseas? >> uh, yes. As of last week, I confirmed that there are still no internal policies, uh, no guidance, nothing for how attachés are to operate overseas.
▶ 1:19:47Having served as an attache myself, um, I would have really appreciated, uh, not only some guidance about how we were to operate, but to have some input into that. And part of that is, I think an expectation for attachés should be building relationships between the united states and foreign countries that we need to share information and cooperate with to combat wildlife crime.
▶ 1:20:11Um, sometimes, you know, it was interesting in the attache corps, about half of us really believed in, you know, bilateral, uh, operations. And the others really thought the us could fight wildlife trafficking all by itself and essentially police the world. And in my experience, that is not an effective strategy. >> thank you.
▶ 1:20:32Uh, doctor ellis, your testimony describes describes china's 17,000 vessel distant water fleet engaged in systematic iuu fishing that has collapsed fisheries in asia and now threatens fisheries in latin america. For alaska, it's not abstract. China's fleet operates in the north pacific near our waters, and our fishermen see these vessels. What tools should the us deploy?
▶ 1:20:58Sanctions, port state measures, diplomatic pressure, or another tool to hold china accountable for what amounts to state sponsored resource theft? >> well, certainly, sir, all of the above. Uh, first of all, beginning with that, the responsibility when one flies the flag of of china or has other ties, in other words, they then become legally responsible for the actions of their deepwater fleet. We've had difficulties with china on that. I think certainly more pressure can be put on china with respect to that.
▶ 1:21:25Um, I follow this issue closely in latin america and the caribbean. And oftentimes the issue there is cooperation and technical capabilities of those governments that goes into security cooperation, that goes into cooperation, that we help facilitate between them. If there is a particular fishing vessel and they may not put into port in peru because they offload their cargo to a to, to a logistics vessel, etc. Etc. Um, but they may put into the port of montevideo, um, you know, being able to facilitate getting those bad actors.
▶ 1:21:54Um, and also there are technical capabilities that we in terms of, of isr, in military terms and other things where we can, you know, help bolster the capability of our partners not only to respond, but to have maritime domain awareness, as well as in protecting other certain vulnerable areas, like like maritime protected areas. >> and would you say that what we're what we see in part is a regulatory arbitrage activity that's occurring.
▶ 1:22:21So it's not just iuu, but it's also the fact that once they're outside of the exclusive economic zone of the united states, they engage in fishing practices that we would not condone here in the united states. They are they're, uh, involved in destructive environmental practices, overharvesting, etc. >> exactly. There's an issue with the laws that govern depending on where the fishing is taking place or if they're right outside of those exclusive economic zones.
▶ 1:22:50There's also an issue of coordination between the different countries that are involved, because these fishing fleets oftentimes follow the fish. And so and as you also point out, you know the problem when they do not put into ports. Um, and how do you regulate and go after the, you know, the logistics ships and others that offload those sketches? >> thank you. >> thank you sir. >> I now recognize our ranking member, doctor dexter. >> thank you very much, Mr. chair. Um, Mr.
▶ 1:23:17Newcomer, I'm going to follow up with a couple other questions I understand. And following up on representative begich's question line, I understand increased penalties for wild wildlife trafficking may be helpful. What other opportunities would you see for limiting the market for those, um, animals or products?
▶ 1:23:38For instance, increased penalties for those purchasing or selling or what other, um, mechanisms might you offer to not just hold those accountable who bring them in, but hold those accountable, who then sell them or distribute them? >> um, yeah. You know, there's a lot of what the us fish and wildlife service does is dependent on kind of an interstate movement of the wildlife. So, um, any time that happens, it's just an extra element that the investigator has to prove.
▶ 1:24:08But a lot of times, um, just possessing the the wildlife itself can be a crime. And if if the law is written in a way where possession is illegal and I'm not required to prove interstate transport as an investigator, that makes my job a lot easier and a lot more difficult for the bad guys to create confusion and duck and avoid me.
▶ 1:24:32>> that makes a lot of sense, and I understand that fish and wildlife services may not be currently engaged in all the task forces, that they may be able to offer insight or help to what? What would be some of those task forces? >> yeah, I'm actually really concerned about what I'm hearing about that lately. Uh, for example, even with iuu, there's a working group called the safe working group, which stands for maritime security and fisheries enforcement.
▶ 1:24:57Um, it's embarrassing to say, but that's been described by one of my foreign former colleagues as a powerpoint party. Nothing comes out of it. Uh, no cases have come out of it. No prosecutions have come out of the safe working group, which is to address iu. There's another one called the timber trafficking working group, which has been stood up by the department of justice now for two years. Not a single case, not a single prosecution has come out of it.
▶ 1:25:24And my understanding is us fish and wildlife service agents don't even participate. Um, which, you know, I know they have limited resources, but, you know, at some point you have to you have to make things work and there's some things you just can't ignore. And then the last is there's a presidential task force on wildlife trafficking. And again, my understanding is it's irregularly attended by fish and wildlife service law enforcement. Or if it is attended, it's by senior, uh, senior managers, senior leaders.
▶ 1:25:56And that information out of that task force isn't getting disseminated down to the field. And the boots on the ground agents are dying to participate in these task forces. They want to be there. They want to make the cases. And they're either told they can't go or they're not informed about what's going on. >> I very much appreciate that. And if I may take the liberty, um, chairman gosar often asks our, um, folks who have come to testify, what is a question that you wish you had been asked and what was your answer?
▶ 1:26:25And if I may, I'll just go down the line, starting with you, doctor ellis. So what is a question that you wish we had asked? And what is the answer? >> thank you very much, ma'am. And I think we've touched on this indirectly. But for me, especially with the the focus of this hearing, it is what is the relationship between, uh, these activities that are environmentally damaging, that are, that are affecting the region where they occur, um, and us national security.
▶ 1:26:50And so it's really kind of understanding how these illicit economies not only cause damage, but but also, you know, create the opportunities through people, through money laundering, um, through physical access that also comes back to that security threat that you so aptly referred to. >> very good. Thank you, Mr. benavides. Yes. Sorry. >> thank you. Um, I guess, uh, the most important to, to me, near and dear to my heart would be how do you effectuate the illegal markets?
▶ 1:27:20By removing the market and specifically with things like rhino would be. What is the silver bullet that you need to kill the werewolf that's affecting these animals, and that's simply deregulating the trade of the horn. >> deregulating the trade of. >> the horn. Great. Thank you. And Mr. newcomer. >> thank you ma'am, I would love to talk about this issue, but we do not have enough time on the rhino horn.
▶ 1:27:41But I think my major thing, since we have talked a lot today about increasing penalties, sentences, the real issue with the sentences is when you get to the sentencing guidelines, and I don't know how much power congress has to make those changes. But the us sentencing guidelines have not changed with regard to wildlife crime, environmental crime for decades. And it doesn't really matter how how much jail time you put on a particular, uh, piece of legislation.
▶ 1:28:09Ultimately, when that person is sentenced, a judge is going to be looking at the sentencing guidelines. And as long as they remain as low as they are, with some wildlife crimes being the same as vandalism of an outhouse at a national park, the person's not going to get any jail time because that's not the way the guidelines work. So the guidelines have got to be amended and changed and brought up to, uh, where we are in the world. Thank you. >> also very helpful. And doctor kingsmore. >> yeah, thanks.
▶ 1:28:35I think one question we how could congress or the us government support american fishermen? Um, I think one answer is certainly restrict or prevent imports that we're competing with, certainly those subsidized imports. Um, but also support american fishermen like congress supports american farmers. We don't have a fisheries bill. They there's a farm bill. Um, and so there it could be in promotion.
▶ 1:29:01It could be loans, low interest loans, development, a whole range of things. Um, fishermen need support now more than ever. Thank you. >> I will channel my colleague, representative hoyle, and say she would wholeheartedly agree with you on that. So thank you very much I yield back. >> gentlelady yields. Uh, I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions.
▶ 1:29:25The members of the committee may have some additional questions for the witnesses, and we may ask you to respond to these in writing. After the hearing under committee rule three, members of the committees must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. On monday, january 26th. The hearing record will be held open for ten business days. For these responses, if there is no further business. >> may I interrupt? >> yes. >> okay. I'm sorry for that, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:29:51I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record three letters addressed to this committee regarding today's hearing. The first is from lincoln park zoo dated january 20th, 2026. Second is from the conservation society of california at the oakland zoo. Also received january 2026. And the third letter is from the animal welfare institute dated january 21st, 2026. >> without objection, so ordered. >> thank you. >> very much. And without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.