▶ 0:27:42Committee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time pursuant to committee rule 2, House Rule 11, clause 2. The chairman may postpone further proceedings uh today on the question of approving any measure or matter or adopting an amendment for which a recorded vote is ordered. Recognize the gentleman from Wisconsin to lead us in the pledge.
▶ 0:28:06To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Present to notice I call up HR6719 the Combating Online Predators Act of 2025 for purpose of markup. Move that the committee report in favor to the House. The clerk will report the bill.
▶ 0:28:30Without objection, the bill be considered as read and open to open for an amendment at any point. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from the great state of Florida, Miss Lee, for her opening statement.
▶ 0:28:42Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to begin by thanking you for this committee's strong and consistent focus on protecting children from online exploitation and for including this bill in today's markup. Last Congress, the Crime Subcommittee held multiple hearings focused on human trafficking, child protection, and identifying victims.
▶ 0:29:02Through this committee, we also advanced the Report Act, which strengthened requirements for online service providers to report crimes involving child sex abuse material to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Legislation that was ultimately signed into law. That work matters and it has made a real difference, but our work is not finished.
▶ 0:29:23Today I'm bringing before the committee HR6719, the Combating Online Predators Act, because we are seeing a disturbing and rapidly growing form of exploitation directed at children. Sextortion. Sextortion occurs when a predator threatens to distribute sexually explicit images, often images a child has already been coerced into producing unless the child complies with further demands.
▶ 0:29:50These demands may include additional explicit images, sexual acts, or money. The threat itself is the leverage, and it is devastatingly effective. The scope of this problem is alarming. Reports of sextortion have increased dramatically in recent years, and children, particularly teenage boys, are disproportionately targeted. The harm is not theoretical. It is real. And in some cases, it is fatal.
▶ 0:30:15Just last month, a 15-year-old boy from West Virginia died by suicide after being targeted in a sextorion scheme. His story is tragically not alone. From a legal standpoint, this bill addresses a very specific and very real gap in federal law. Under current statutes, the act of threatening to distribute child sex abuse material in order to coersse a child is not always clearly captured within existing CSAM provisions.
▶ 0:30:45As a result, prosecutors are often forced to rely on a patchwork of other statutes leading to inconsistent charging decisions and sentences that do not adequately reflect the seriousness of the conduct. That is not because prosecutors lack commitment or creativity. It is because the statute was not written with this modern form of exploitation in mind. The Combating Online Predators Act fixes that.
▶ 0:31:09This bill amends sections 2252 and 2252A of title 18 to explicitly criminalize the knowing threat to distribute child sex abuse material when that threat is used to coers a minor to produce or transmit sexually explicit conduct. It is a targeted common sense update that aligns the law with the realities our children face online today.
▶ 0:31:35This legislation ensures that predators who use these threats as a weapon against children can be charged appropriately and sentenced accordingly. No child should ever be placed in a position where they feel trapped, ashamed, or hopeless because of an online predator's threat. And no child should ever believe the only way out is to harm themselves.
▶ 0:31:56Congress has a responsibility to ensure that our laws keep pace with evolving forms of exploitation and that law enforcement has the tools it needs to protect victims and hold predators accountable. For these reasons, I urge my colleagues to support HR6719. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield
▶ 0:32:14Gentle lady yields back. The ranking members recognized for an opening
▶ 0:32:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I salute the gentle lady on her legislation. Uh this is one of a a host of bills we're looking at today, Mr. Chairman, uh that emerged uh magically almost from the legislative push and pull over the NDAA. We a lot of them we have not had hearings on. We've not had uh an extended period of time to do any real legislative analysis on them. I've done my best to try to study up on them.
▶ 0:32:45Um and uh the you know my response on this one will be similar to my response on some others. I plan to support this bill today because it it raises a very serious issue. It's got a very important uh objective. I do think that there's room for improvement in this legislation in several different ways.
▶ 0:33:04It of course addresses the growing threat of the sextortion of minors which occurs when a person gets a hold of an explicit image involving a minor and then uses it to blackmail them. It's a deadly serious problem. Um the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children reports that it's been uh just spiraling in recent years. They received 33,000 reports of this crime last year alone.
▶ 0:33:31The victims face extreme harassment um and often feel they've got nowhere to turn. Nick Mick reports that there are at least 36 teenagers who've taken their own lives after being targeted in such um criminal schemes. So, if you're willing, Mr. Chairman, um I would like to get together to improve the legislation to ensure certain deficiencies are corrected. For example, the financial component that accompanies these crimes is not addressed here.
▶ 0:33:59But I think there are ways we can work together to improve it. But I plan to vote for it and I do support the underlying bill and I yield back.
▶ 0:34:06Gentleman yields back with without objection. All of the opening statements will be included in the record. Chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Florida to offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute.
▶ 0:34:16Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the
▶ 0:34:19Clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 0:34:20Amendment in the nature of
▶ 0:34:21objection. Amendment nature substitute be considered as read and shall be considered as the base tax for the purposes of amendment. The gentle lady from Florida is recognized to explain the amendment.
▶ 0:34:31Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This amendment simply makes a small change to the short title that does nothing to alter the substance of the bill. I yield back.
▶ 0:34:39Gentle lady yields back.
▶ 0:34:44Anyone seek recognition? Gentle lady from Vermont is recognized.
▶ 0:34:49Just briefly, Mr. chair. I just um like uh my ranking member, I'm grateful to uh Miss Lee for bringing this forward and like the ranking member uh look forward to working together to to improve this. As a mom of two teens, this is something I know all of us who are parents think about a lot. So I yield back.
▶ 0:35:09Gentle lady yields back.
▶ 0:35:11Question is on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of substitute. This will be followed immediately by a vote on favorably reporting the bill. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no opinion of the chair, the eyes have it and the amendment nature of a substitute is adopted. The question now is on favorably reporting the bill as amended. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. The eyes have it and the bill is ordered to be reported favorably to the house. Members will have two days to submit views without objection.
▶ 0:35:38The bill will be reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute incorporating all adopted amendments and staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes. Pursuant to notice I call up HR6732, the Coercion and Sexual Abuse-Free Environment Act of 2025 for purposes of markup and move that the House uh move, excuse me, move that the committee reported favorably to the House. The clerk will report the bill
▶ 0:36:05HR67. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment at any point. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Biggs, for an opening statement.
▶ 0:36:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I I thank all the members of the committee. And I I want to point out that the crime subcommittee has had multiple hearings addressing CSAM issues. So, so we've actually tried to uh get this uh and discuss these types of bills and this issue. Uh Mr. Mr. Chairman, as was stated earlier, the horror of child exploitation online continues to remain an issue across the country.
▶ 0:36:39The subcommittee on crime and federal government surveillance made combating child exploitation a top priority in the 118th Congress, and we continue to do so in this Congress. Unfortunately, we've only just scratched the surface of the true evil that criminals are finding new ways to force minors to commit sexual or violent acts. Violent online networks are methodically targeting vulnerable underage populations across the United States.
▶ 0:37:04These violent groups, often known as gore groups, are going further to target children and force them into unthinkable acts of violence against themselves, against others, and even against animals. These groups use social media or other popular platforms such as Roblox or Discord to elicit private information or sexual images from minors and then use that material to blackmail victims into mutilating themselves or taking other violent action against other other children or even animals.
▶ 0:37:35Many of these networks rapidly emerge, create alliances and dissolve, making it difficult to determine leadership structures with many criminal actors located overseas. Many of these offenders are also minors themselves. The most prominent group example is the online extremist network known as 764. 764 is a decentralized online network glorifying violence and encouraging participation in criminal activities such as sextorion and doxing.
▶ 0:38:03A disturbed young man who has since been arrested and jailed started the 764 network in 2020. While decentralized, it has grown into a vast array of online predators, seemingly in a dark competition of who can get children to commit the most violent acts.
▶ 0:38:18In 2024, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, NickMeck, Cyber Tipline, the nation's centralized reporting system for the online abuse and exploitation of minors, received more than 1,300 reports of exploitation with a connection to a violent online group. By August of this year, they had already received more than 1,000. In response to combating these groups, a law enforcement officer made the grim remark, quote, "If you can get someone to self harm, you're doing quite well in that group.
▶ 0:38:48If you can get them to kill themselves, you're reaching the pinnacle." Close quote. That is their objective of these evil people. These stories, these examples are incredibly disturbing. Children are carving phrases unto themselves and live streaming the torture of pets. Some are encouraged to commit suicide and live stream the that act of suicide for the world to see. This rising threat should alarm everyone listening regardless of party affiliation.
▶ 0:39:15I applaud the FBI for taking crucial steps to both raise awareness on this issue and hold predators accountable and working with us in the drafting of this legislation. In April in April, the FBI Richmond field office shared a video warning about a new threat to kids safety. According to Deputy Director Bonino, the FBI has more than 300 active investigations into these groups, and that number continues to grow. However, more is needed from Congress to asssure these heinous individuals are prosecuted.
▶ 0:39:43The conduct of groups such as the 764 Network do not always fit neatly into existing criminal statutes, potentially jeopardizing prosecutions. My legislation, the Coercion and Sexual Abuse-Free Environment Act, criminalizes compelling or enticing a minor to engage in self harm, resulting in death, engage in animal crushing, or to commit acts of self mutilation or self-branding. We can all find common ground with this common sense legislation. These are grotesque crimes that must be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
▶ 0:40:12And to any young people listening who have been impacted by this crime and do not know where to turn, know it is not your fault. Do not listen to this evil online. know you are loved and anything can be made right. You are worth your uh your life is worth living. I urge my colleagues to support this legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:40:32The chair recognizes the ranking member for an opening statement.
▶ 0:40:36Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh and again, I want to thank the sponsor for introducing this legislation. Coercing kids online to hurt themselves or other people uh is a massive and brutal harm and uh a serious social problem that's increasing. Um violent online groups have emerged on popular platforms geared towards children um and teenagers.
▶ 0:41:01These groups and individuals acting alone encourage children to commit horrifying acts including cutting themselves, creating child sex abuse material, sexually exploiting other children, harming animals, swatting, doxing, and in the most extreme instances taking their own lives. This happened to Jay Taylor, a 13-year-old who was struggling with an eating disorder, a gender identity, and a sense of isolation. He found a connection on the online platform Discord.
▶ 0:41:31Members of 764, an online network which methodically targets and exploits young people, got its grasp on him and devastatingly coerced Jay to take his own life while live streaming. The FBI agents who worked on his case repeatedly encountered roadblocks while attempting to get prosecutors simply to file charges in the case with one US attorney telling him it simply wasn't possible.
▶ 0:41:55So the bill before us now, the Coercion and Sexual Abuse-Free Environment Act of 2025, CSAFE, tries to address the shortcomings in existing federal criminal law when it comes to investigating cases like this. So um I am uh prepared to support this legislation. I am concerned again because everything is being rushed so much, Mr.
▶ 0:42:19chairman, um that there may be some deficiencies in this legislation which would make it vulnerable to constitutional invalidation. I noted that one of the other bills we're looking at today is an attempt to respond to a circuit court ruling against another piece of legislation um in this field. Um and so we should take good care to try to define the terms here.
▶ 0:42:46For example, if you look at section 2C1C, um it criminalizes the act of compelling a minor to quote engage in abuse or degrading nonsexual conduct. But there's no definition in the law of what degrading nonsexual conduct is.
▶ 0:43:09And so you can imagine uh applications that everybody would agree to, but you could also imagine a number of marginal ones or ones that would cross the line. And you don't want the whole statute to be struck down as void for vagueness under due process because it's got overly broad spongy terms like that.
▶ 0:43:29So, uh, again, I I'm happy, uh, to support the legislation, but I would like to, uh, work with you and the sponsor, uh, in order to elucidate some of the terms, which to me seem to be, um, overly vague. And I return to you, Mr.
▶ 0:43:45Uh, gentleman [clears throat] yields back and I'm sure we can we can take a look at that. Without objection, all of the opening statements will be included in the uh, in the record. The chair now recognizes a gentleman from Arizona to offer an amendment in the nature of a
▶ 0:43:58Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the
▶ 0:43:59Clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 0:44:00Amendment in the nature of
▶ 0:44:01objection. The amendment in the nature of a substitute will be considered as read and shall be considered as base text for the purpose of the amendment. Gentleman from Arizona is recognized to explain the amendment.
▶ 0:44:09Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This amendment simply makes a small change to the short title that does nothing to alter the substance of the bill. I yield
▶ 0:44:16Gentleman yields back. Who seeks
▶ 0:44:22Question occurs on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute. This will be followed immediately by a vote on reporting the bill. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. Pin, the chair, the eyes have it. And the amendment in the nature of a substitute is adopted. The question is on favorably reporting the bill as amended. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed? No. The eyes have it and the bill is ordered to be reported favorably to the House. Members will have two days to submit views.
▶ 0:44:46Without objection, the bill will be reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute incorporating all adopted amendments and staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes. Uh pursuant to notice, we call up 6715, the Child Predators Accountability Act of 2025 for purposes of markup and move that the committee report it favorably to the House. Uh the clerk will report the bill.
▶ 0:45:13HR6715. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment at any point. The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harris, is recognized for an opening statement.
▶ 0:45:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Protecting the vulnerable is one of the most sacred responsibilities of government. Curbing the prevalence of child sexual abuse material or CISAM is an issue that I believe must be confronted headon. Offenders who commit these despicable sexual crimes against children must be fully punished by the law. Unfortunately, there is a decision in the US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit that has weakened law allowing some offenders to avoid justice.
▶ 0:45:51In this case, a defendant's conviction was overturned because a child was merely present in a sexually explicit video made by the defendant, but not an active participant. Predators who include minors in their sex tapes should not go free, regardless of the context. A child is harmed the moment that his or her image uh is used in sexual context, whether or not they were a direct participant.
▶ 0:46:16We cannot allow one rogue case to lead to a domino effect of more bad case law and less protection for these vulnerable children. My bill, the Child Predators Accountability Act, amends the law to ensure that the term engaged in child sexual abuse material or CSAM encompasses passive activity when a child is portrayed in explicit images and videos.
▶ 0:46:42Under this new definition, the depiction of the minor would qualify as sexually explicit conduct regardless of whether the minor participated in such conduct so long as a defendant intentionally included the minor in the visual depiction. While a small change in the law, it is incredibly important and necessary in strengthening the ability for prosecutors to hold these despicable actors accountable.
▶ 0:47:08I urge my colleagues to support the Child Predators Accountabilities Act and encourage its swift passage in the House. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:47:17Call 9 yard.
▶ 0:47:19Gentleman yields back. The ranking member, the gentle lady from uh Vermont is recognized.
▶ 0:47:25Thank you, Chairman Jordan. Uh I support this legislation at a time when we have seen a dramatic increase in the volume of federal prosecutions for offenses involving the production of child sexual abuse material. A decision out of the seventh circuit, United States v. Howard, threatens to significantly limit prosecutors ability to hold some of the worst child predators to account. The legal question is technical, but the human consequences are brutally simple.
▶ 0:47:53Title 18 of the US Code, section 2251A, criminalizes the production of sexual, excuse me, child sexual abuse material. For decades, prosecutors have used this law to target predators who prey on children to produce ghastly images of child sexual abuse.
▶ 0:48:11But the seventh circuit's ruling in the Howard case in 2020 jeopardized prosecutor's ability to go after these dangerous people until they actually abused a child and created an image of that abuse. The Howard decision narrowed the scope of section 2251A, holding that the mere presence of a minor in a visual depiction of sexual explicit conduct does not automatically violate the statute.
▶ 0:48:37To obtain a conviction for production of C se CSAM in the seventh circuit, the child in the photo, video, or image must themselves engage in sexually explicit content. This is an absurd reading. The Howard ruling undermines the ability to prosecute common scenarios involving the surreptitious recording of children.
▶ 0:48:58For example, when criminals plant concealed cameras in bathrooms, locker rooms, and bedrooms to record sexually explicit images of children who are unaware that they are being filmed. and criminals who record themselves sexually violating very young children, such as infants and toddlers, who are too young to understand that they are being filmed in sexually explicit scenarios, could conceivably avoid prosecution under the reasoning of Howard, and this is absurd.
▶ 0:49:30would make clear that even the passive use of a child in the protection of CSAM is a crime and eliminate any confusion caused by the seventh circuit's ruling in Howard. I support this legislation and yield back. Without objection, all other opening statements will be included in the record. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina to offer an amendment in the nature of a
▶ 0:50:02Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This amendment simply makes a small change.
▶ 0:50:05Just just hang on one second. You got amendment at the desk?
▶ 0:50:09Clerk will report.
▶ 0:50:10Amendment in the nature of a substitute.
▶ 0:50:11Not objection. The amendment substitute will be considered as read and shall be considered as base text for the purpose of amendment. The chair now recognized the gentleman from North Carolina to explain the amendment.
▶ 0:50:20Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This amendment simply makes a small change to the short title that does nothing to alter the substance of the bill. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 0:50:27Gentlemen yields back. Who seeks The question occurs on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute. This will be followed immediately by a vote on favorably reporting the bill. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. The chair, the eyes have it, and the amendment in the nature of a substitute is adopted. The question is on favorably reporting the bill as amended. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed? No. The eyes have it in the bill is ordered to be reported favorably to the House. Members will have two days to submit views.
▶ 0:50:56Without objection, the bill will be reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute incorporating all adopted amendments and staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes. Pursuant to notice, we call up HR 3497, the Medal of Sacrifice Act for purposes of markup and move that the committee reported favorably to the House. The clerk report the bill. HR 349.
▶ 0:51:20Without objection, the bill will be considered as read an open for amendment at any point. Uh the chair is now recognized for an opening statement. The Medal of Sacrifice Act authorizes the president to award a medal to law enforcement officers and first responders killed in the line of duty. Law enforcement officers and other first responders are known for their courage and facing danger to protect their communities. While others may flee, law enforcement and first responders run toward danger. Law enforcement officers uphold public safety by enforcing laws and maintaining order.
▶ 0:51:48First responders save lives during emergencies despite their risk uh the risk to their own safety. These brave men and women provide essential help in times of need, embodying service commitment to the greater good. Unfortunately, law enforcement first responders often make the ultimate sacrifice while serving their communities. In 2024, the FBI reported that 64 law enforcement officers were murdered while on duty. That same year, another 56 law enforcement officers died in traffic related act incidents.
▶ 0:52:16The National Fire Protection Association reported that there were 62 fatalities from injuries to firefighters in the United States in 2024. The Medal of Sacrifice will honor the brave men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice while serving their communities. I want to thank Representative Mast, chair of the Homeland Security Committee, uh for his or excuse me, the foreign affairs committee uh uh for his good work on this legislation. I urge my colleagues to support this bill and I yield now to the ranking member for his opening
▶ 0:52:46Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, as you say, more than a 100 sworn law enforcement officers, more than 100 firefighters die uh each year while on duty. Um, and there are a number of different memorials for them. There is no memorial or medal that honors all public safety officers who die in the line of duty. Um over the last nine years, the leading causes of death for law enforcement officers were CO 19, jobreated illness, shootings, and car accidents.
▶ 0:53:16Uh these causes are responsible for 94% of line of duty law enforcement deaths. So, um, in addition to honoring people with a medal, we should be investing in public health, combating gun violence and the ready availability of guns for people who shouldn't have them, and making our roads safer. Um, so let's uh also try to get together on a bipartisan basis to make bipartisan policy progress.
▶ 0:53:46But I support this bill to award medals of sacrifice to the public safety officers uh who have lost their lives and service to their countries and their communities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:53:56Gentleman yields back. Um chair offer amendment in the nature of a substitute. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 0:54:01Amendment in the nature of
▶ 0:54:02objection. The amendment nature of substitute be considered as read and shall be considered as base text for the purposes of amendment. Um the the amendment nature chair is recognized to explain the amendment. themen nature of substitute simply adds the years uh to the short title and makes a technical correction in the text. I urge my colleagues to support it and I yield back. I want to recognize Miss Lee then I know we have a several on both sides here. So we'll go to Miss Lee and then I think Mr. Nell gentle lady from Florida is recognized.
▶ 0:54:31Thank you Mr. Chairman. I strongly support HR 3497 the Medal of Sacrifice Act which I am proud to co-sponsor. I thank my good friend from the great state of Florida, Congresswoman Mast, for his leadership in championing this meaningful legislation, as well as Chairman Jordan, for including it in today's markup. Every day, law enforcement officers and first responders willingly place themselves in harm's way to protect our community and our country.
▶ 0:54:57These are firefighters who run toward danger, law enforcement officers who confront violence to keep their neighborhoods safe, and emergency medical personnel who respond to crises knowing that each call carries risk. Their courage, selflessness, and devotion to duty represent the very best of public service. The Medal of Sacrifice Act is about ensuring that the bravery and selfless self selflessness of these first responders is formally recognized and never forgotten.
▶ 0:55:26It would authorize the president to present the Medal of Sacrifice to any law enforcement officer or first responder who is killed in the line of duty while ensuring the award reflects service performed honorably and in the line of duty. We also owe a profound debt of gratitude to the families of these fallen heroes.
▶ 0:55:44Behind every first responder is a family who shared in the families who endured long hours, constant uncertainty, and ultimately an irreplaceable loss. This legislation affirms that the nation remembers their sacrifice. Supporting this bill would help express our respect, our gratitude, and our commitment to honoring those who gave their lives to keep our communities safe.
▶ 0:56:11I strongly urge my colleagues to support the Medal of Sacrifice Act. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield lady yields back. The gentleman from Florida is recognized.
▶ 0:56:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to associate my comments with uh the ranking member uh 3497. I'm uh the Medal of Sacrifice Act uh filed by uh my uh fellow Flidian uh who I share Palm Beach County with. Uh I want to thank him for filing it and I also am a co-sponsor. Um, introduced by Chairman Mass, this legislation authorizes the president to present an official medal to local, state, and federal law enforcement officials and first responders who are killed in the line of duty.
▶ 0:56:53The bill establishes a commission of 12 law enforcement officers who would be in charge of determining eligibility for the medal. Earlier this year, President Trump awarded this medal to three Palm Beach County deputies who were killed when an SUV struck them on the side of the road. While such a medal cannot bring back Deputy Ralph Butch Waller, Deputy Anasio Dan Diaz, and Deputy Lewis PZ, it can honor their commitment to their communities and mark our gratitude for their sacrifice. I urge my colleagues to support this legislation that would codify this medal, and I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:57:24Uh the gentleman yields back. The the good chair from Texas is recognized.
▶ 0:57:28Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm proud to also support the Medal of Sacrifice Act. This bipartisan bill creates a prestigious medal presented by the president to honor our brave law enforcement officers and first responders who made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty, ensuring that their heroism and the pain felt by their families are recognized forever at the highest level.
▶ 0:57:49And as a former sheriff served nearly 30 years in law enforcement, I know all too well the the dangers that these men and women in blue face each and every single day to keep our communities safe. That's why since coming to Congress, we've displayed photos of every law enforcement officer who has died in the line of duty on the wall outside my office. It's a constant reminder constant reminder to never forget their sacrifice. Supporting this bill is part of my unwavering commitment to backing the blue and I look forward to seeing it advance.
▶ 0:58:19Thank you, sir.
▶ 0:58:20Thank you. Thank you for your service. Uh the gentle lady from California is
▶ 0:58:24Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, you know, I think this is a worthy bill, an honorable bill, and we should be doing all we can to protect and keep safe uh the honorable men and women who get up every single day and put their lives at risk to protect the rest of us. Um, you know, I have family members that uh have served in in many of these jobs.
▶ 0:58:51And so I do understand the terror that families feel when their loved ones are getting up each and every day to go to work. I do want to say specific to law enforcement officers, you know, many of them also um succumb to suicide because of the stresses of the job. and about 20% of them are killed in the line of duty when they are responding to domestic violence calls.
▶ 0:59:19And I want to I want to share those two um statistics and data points because we should also remember that these are our friends and family members and neighbors who are getting up and doing this very difficult work.
▶ 0:59:33And so I would hope that as we support this bill, we also reconsider the cuts to the 988 hotline, a hotline that is designed for folks to call in when they are having a mental health crisis so that they can involve 988 counselors on the line rather than calling 911 and potentially putting law enforcement officers lives at risk.
▶ 0:59:57I also hope we would reconsider the 375 public safety grants that have gone to our law enforcement officers that have now that were administered by the DOJ that have now been cut because it is funding, it is resources, and it is bills like this that show our solidarity with the men and women that are getting up every single day to protect us and the rest of this country. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 1:00:23Gentle yields back. The gentleman from Kansas is recognized.
▶ 1:00:28Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank you for scheduling this markup today. Uh I'm a strong supporter of the Medal of Sacrifice Act of 2025. I'm a co-sponsor of it. Uh in my prior roles, I've had the opportunity to work very closely for well over a decade with our state of Kansas law enforcement memorial that is on the state house grounds in Topeka. It permanently honors uh each law enforcement officer killed in the line of duty in the state of Kansas.
▶ 1:00:54Uh and it has been a tremendous privilege to work with the men and women who um serve and who make that memorial a reality uh each and every day. Uh I am sad to say that we have had a particularly deadly year in Kansas law enforcement this year. We've lost four officers in the line of duty. Uh Deputy Brandon Gaty and of the Philips County Sheriff's Office, Deputy Elijah Ming of the Weot County Sheriff's Office that is in my house district.
▶ 1:01:21Officer Hunter Samik of the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department, that is in my house district, and Sergeant Scott Heyman of the Hayes Police Department. And it is my hope and expectation that once this bill bill becomes law, the president uh will award to each of them and their survivors uh the appropriate Medal of Sacrifice. Mr. Chairman, I think it's very appropriate that the President of the United States would be given this formal authority uh not only now, but for all future presidents. and look forward to getting this bill passed.
▶ 1:01:52I will say that upon reviewing the the the technical parts of the bill, we came up we identified two issues in it that I think could uh use some strengthening to ensure that it operates the way intended. We have consulted with the bill's sponsor, Representative Mast. He is agreeable. And so, Mr. Chairman, if this is the appropriate time, I do have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 1:02:12Uh the clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 1:02:14Amendment to the amendment in the nature
▶ 1:02:16objection. The amendment be considered as read. clerk [clears throat] will distribute the amendment and the gentleman is recognized to um explain his amendment.
▶ 1:02:24Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I won't call this a technical amendment because it is subsidy, but I do think it is almost in the nature of a technical amendment. The first uh the scope of the bill as introduced uh applies to local, state or federal law enforcement officers. First portion of this amendment would expand that to include tribal or territorial law enforcement officers. I don't think there was any intent to exclude them. It was uh simply the way the bill was drafted.
▶ 1:02:47The second change, um, the commission that, uh, is created by the bill is statutoily tasked with several duties, but it's not explicitly tasked with what I what I think most of us presume is its principal intended duty, which is advising the president on eligibility for who is to receive the medal. And I and I will tell you from the years of working with our state memorial, sometimes the facts are very clear and there's no doubt when somebody has been killed in the line of duty, sometimes the facts are more subject to judgment.
▶ 1:03:15And I'm aware of cases where, for example, an individual law enforcement officer has been a judge to have been killed in the line of duty under state law, but not under federal law, and his or her name may appear on the state memorial, but not the federal memorial or vice versa. This would just clarify that it is a responsibility of the commission uh to uh advise the president on making those determinations. With that, Mr. uh Mr. Chairman, that is the amendment.
▶ 1:03:38Uh the gentleman yields back. I appreciate the gentleman's work on um first his statement on the the law enforcement officers in his state his district who uh have given the ultimate sacrifice for their community and for this amendment um that the the gentleman has both talked with chairman mast and has and has talked with folks on our committee. I I think this is fine and I hope the committee will will adopt the gentleman's amendment.
▶ 1:04:03Who seeks recognition? The question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by the gentleman from can gentle lady from Vermont is recognized first.
▶ 1:04:12Thank you, Mr. Chair. I strongly support the Medal of Sacrifice Act. Um, we all have police officers and first responders in our district that make the the ultimate sacrifice. Um, but I I want to just remind all of us that there was um a law passed in 2022 to hang up a plaque to honor the men and women who bravely protected our capital.
▶ 1:04:40And um the inscription reads, "On behalf of a grateful Congress, this plaque honors the extraordinary individuals who bravely protected and defended this symbol of democracy on January 6, 2021. Their heroism will never be forgotten. I would encourage my members on the other side to pressure the speaker of the house to honor the law, hang up the plaque, and give these men and women the honor that they deserve. I yield
▶ 1:05:09Will the gentle lady yield for just a
▶ 1:05:11I will yield.
▶ 1:05:12The I want to thank the gentle lady from Vermont. If I could just add my my voice to that. These these kinds of measures should not be partisan in nature, which is why we're strongly supporting this legislation. And I've heard several of my GOP colleagues say that they will unwaveringly stand with um people in blue.
▶ 1:05:33We we really have to do that with respect to the people who guard us every single day against the multifarious threats that now bear down on members of Congress. And all we're talking about is enforcing a law that's already been passed. Congress passed this. This was supposed to have gone up in 2023. um, the speaker of the house, alas, is running a fowl of the law.
▶ 1:06:00And it's a simple matter of hanging up a plaque that Congress overwhelmingly voted for. So, um, you know, we don't want to politicize it by saying this shouldn't move forward or introducing an amendment to say that this bill can only go through if that goes up. It's already the law, but we do ask our colleagues to act in corlary good faith to the way we're acting today.
▶ 1:06:26Please, um, these are our officers of all different, um, political persuasions who come from a lot of different police departments and it really means a lot to them. uh especially when you know some of the people who violently attacked them were pardoned uh by the president and were relieved of any fines or restitution that they were forced to pay. So this is the least we can do and I yield back to the gentle lady and I thank you for
▶ 1:06:54and I yield back to the chair.
▶ 1:06:55Gentle lady yields back. Uh we got an amendment pending if if we can maybe take a vote on amendment then if we have any other comments on the bill. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Kansas. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed no. The uh amendment from the uh the gentleman from Kansas is adopted and will now be part of the bill. Uh who seeks recognition? Okay. The question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute. The I guess the amended amendment in the nature of a substitute. This will be followed by immediate by a vote on reporting the bill.
▶ 1:07:25All those in favor say I. Those opposed no. In the opinion the chair the eyes have it and the amendment the nature of substitute is adopted. The questions in favor will be reporting the bill as amended. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. The eyes have it and the bill is ordered to be reported favorably to the House. Members will have two days to submit views. Um without objection, the bill will be reported as a single amendment. The nature of a substitute incorporating all adopted amendments and staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes.
▶ 1:07:58Yes. Pursuant to notice, I call up uh HR Cashless Bail Reporting Act, for purposes of markup and move that the committee reported favorably to the House. The clerk will report the bill.
▶ 1:08:13Without objection, the bill be considered as read. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harris, for an opening
▶ 1:08:20Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the past several years, rogue prosecutors and Democrat-run jurisdictions have downgraded serious crimes, refused to prosecute prosecute the laws on the books, and put criminals ahead of communities. I've seen this happen in Charlotte, where I represent the eastern part. This past August, the nation stood shocked as we all saw the brutal murder of Arena Zerutska by a man who had previously been arrested 14 times.
▶ 1:08:48Far-left district attorneys and Democrat-run jurisdictions seek to fundamentally change the criminal justice system to favor dangerous criminals, resulting in rising crime in their jurisdictions. These prosecutors refuse to prosecute entire categories of crime, systematically downgrade felonies to misdemeanors, and refuse to request bail for criminals with a violent criminal history. These procriminal policies are causing significant harm to people who the prosecutors swore to protect.
▶ 1:09:18Democrat-run state legislatures and city councils have implemented far-left bail reform laws and other policies that have exacerbated the crime crisis echoing across our nation. Eliminating cash bail, preventing judges from imposing constraints on dangerous criminals, and immediately releasing criminals back onto the streets doesn't make Americans safer. It's putting criminals above victims.
▶ 1:09:45Thankfully, the North Carolina General Assembly passed Arena's law in response to Miss Zerutska's murder to remedy some of the soft on crime policies. However, we should not wait until there is a further tragedy to highlight the shortcomings of cashless bail policies. And that's why this bill is necessary. It's inspired by an executive order issued by President Trump.
▶ 1:10:08This legislation requires the attorney general to publish a public and accessible list of each state and local jurisdiction that allows the pre-trial release of a person charged with a violent crime. These crimes include murder, rape, sexual assault, and crimes that disrupt the public order like looting, vandalism, and fleeing from law enforcement.
▶ 1:10:33Americans should be able to see while which jurisdictions have enacted dangerous and irresponsible policies related to bail when making decisions about where to live, where to work, to travel, or hopefully advocate for change within their own communities. In order to address a problem, we must first highlight the extent of the problem. I urge my colleagues to support this bill. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:11:01Gentleman yields back. Ranking members recognized for an opening statement.
▶ 1:11:05Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Um, I will vote for this bill as a relatively straightforward and minor transparency measure. uh its terms simply direct the attorney general to publish a list of state and local jurisdictions that uh permit uh cashless bail. Um so I'll commend the the sponsor on introducing it.
▶ 1:11:31Uh I do have to take exception to some of the rhetoric uh we just heard which uh seemed determined to turn this into some kind of partisan affair. I will remark and I I will stand corrected if anybody uh dares to contradict me that the single largest release of violent felons on a single day in American history was Donald Trump's pardon of the January 6th insurrectionists.
▶ 1:11:58He pardoned 1,600 people and included in that group were hundreds of people who violently assaulted police officers with baseball, bats, steel pipes, broken furniture, bare mace, tear gas, um you name it, and we were there for it. So, nobody's ever going to convince me it didn't happen. We saw it. Uh we were there for it.
▶ 1:12:20Um, and so, uh, you know, I would like to see, uh, our tough on crime, law and order politics apply to all crime, even the criminals who happen to be on our side politically or acting in advance of our own political agenda.
▶ 1:12:39That doesn't seem like a a very tough uh proposition to advance to a group of some of the most distinguished lawyers in the Um, in any event, I I want to make another comment about bail. Given some of the rhetoric we just heard, bail is not a mechanism of In America, you are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt as to every element of an offense.
▶ 1:13:08As we heard uh yesterday and people discussing publicly uh Jack Smith and the prosecution he brought against Donald Trump, people are right to say that the prosecution must sustain its burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt as to every element of an offense guilt responsibility. Okay, that's legit. Now, until then, you're a free person because we have innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
▶ 1:13:38And Donald Trump, who's been both a civil and criminal defendant many, many times, has availed himself of every element of due process that we've got in the country. Uh, and people have um a right to their freedom when they're prepared to stand trial, when they're getting ready to stand trial, unless they're a flight risk, or unless they're a danger to themselves or to other people. That's basically the rule. We've got some very distinguished prosecutors on the other side, Mr.
▶ 1:14:07not and I would love him to weigh in if he's got any theory about this. But that's my understanding what bail is. I was not a prosecutor for remotely as long as Mr. Kn was, but that's what bail does. It's got one purpose. It's to ensure that the accused comes back to court for their trial and shows up full stop. That's what it is. So the you know how we have cashless bail all over the country in federal court. The federal courts operate on a cashless bail system.
▶ 1:14:37The judges make a determination whether or not the person's a flight risk or they're a danger. Again, I would love to yield to Mr. Not if he wants to weigh in on it, but that's my recollection of how bail works in the federal system. So cash bail, which is a billion-doll for-profit industry, and you know that the bail bondsmen uh are a pretty big political force in a lot of places because that is a very lucrative business. That's an extremely lucrative business.
▶ 1:15:07Okay, cash bail changes the premise here. A cash bail system asks a different question. How much money can this person cobble together to pay for their freedom as they await trial? that introduces a for-profit business into the whole thing. So, I don't know why we are demonizing jurisdictions simply because they prefer to use a policy that mirrors the federal policy, the federal law.
▶ 1:15:36Now, I I can see competing arguments on either side, but to say that uh a jurisdiction which adopts the same system that we use in federal courts is somehow soft on crime or weak on crime strikes me as ridiculous. So, um in any event, this bill just asked the DOJ to compile information. It's information that is already publicly available, but it will help to coordinate it. Fine. Uh let's do that.
▶ 1:16:05we could be doing a lot better. We could actually, if we wanted to uh advance the public dialogue of this, we could conduct uh a real assessment of the different pre-trial uh policies relating to bail. We could actually look at it. We could analyze it and see what works. How well does the federal system compared to states that that use a cash bill system? How about comparing the, you know, the cash uh systems in certain states with those that don't? We could do that.
▶ 1:16:35But in any event, I'm not opposed to this measure. This just collects some basic information. I I do hope that we will change the rhetoric so it doesn't make it seem as if bail is an illegitimate part of the process when it's necessary to vindicate essential constitutional values. Yield back to you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:16:53Gentleman yields back. Gentleman from North Carolina is recognized.
▶ 1:16:56Mr. Chairman. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Kn.
▶ 1:16:59I was I was going to rec Mr. Not from North Carolina. Excuse me.
▶ 1:17:02Yes, Mr. Chairman. U Mr. for asking. I always appreciate inquiry. Love the
▶ 1:17:05Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The good gentleman from uh North Carolina was right. Was that uh I want to make sure
▶ 1:17:12I I'll come to you next. U without objection, all of the opening statements will be included in the record.
▶ 1:17:17Chair now recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Harris from North Carolina to offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute.
▶ 1:17:22Mr. Chairman, may I have an amendment at the desk?
▶ 1:17:24Amendment in the nature.
▶ 1:17:25Without objection, the amendment for the purposes of amendment. Gentleman from North Carolina's rec Mr. Harris to explain the amendment.
▶ 1:17:34This amendment makes changes to the base text. The amendment narrows the focus to jurisdictions that have cashless bail policies related to serious violent crime offenses and other crimes that promote public disorder. The changes are not intended in any way to alter the important purpose of this bill and I urge support for my amendment and I yield back.
▶ 1:17:53Gentleman yields back. Now I'm going to recognize the other gentleman from the great state of North Carolina, Mr. Kn.
▶ 1:17:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to briefly respond, I I I largely echo many of what um uh Mr. Raskin just just mentioned about the federal bail reform act. And as you well know or probably know, whenever someone was arrested in the federal system, you have a detention hearing where the state can argue that you are a flight risk or you are a danger.
▶ 1:18:17And I think what this particular bill represents is trying to at least bring some consideration back to the criminal history of the individualized cases of the individualized people. And uh my analysis when I was a prosecutor was what was the crime committed and what was the criminal history. And that was largely the the two considerations for whether or not they were likely going to inflict more harm. And obviously you can get into how strong the case was.
▶ 1:18:45Um, but if you arrested somebody with a low-level drug amount or they zero criminal history, there's a case to be made. They should be released pending trial. But if you arrested somebody that had 15 different felonies, a million dollars cash, three different passports, high weaponry, and so forth, you could make the case that person is a guaranteed risk to the community. And I don't want to speak for my good friend Mr. Paris.
▶ 1:19:10But what we've seen in some parts of North Carolina and certainly around the country is sort of a rope or a wrote rubber stamping of cashless bail releases regardless of criminal history. And obviously it's difficult to speak in broad terms when you deal with individual cases. But in North Carolina especially, there's some pretty glaring examples of recidivist violent felons who have been released even after they have been repeatedly arrested pending
▶ 1:19:37And uh again, I yield to Mr. Harris if there's any point of clarity here but I believe that's sort of the motivation of the bill that we're discussing today.
▶ 1:19:45Indeed. [clears throat] Thank you sir.
▶ 1:19:47Back gentleman
▶ 1:19:48yields back the ranking member seek
▶ 1:19:53Gentle from I'll go to whichever one. Gentle from California.
▶ 1:19:56Uh yes. I thank you for recognizing me. I'd like to yield my time to my ranking
▶ 1:20:01Thank you kindly and I appreciate that. Miss Kamluff. Um
▶ 1:20:06I actually think you have time.
▶ 1:20:08Oh okay. But but in any event um uh but I agree completely with what I understand Mr. KN's uh explanation to be. Uh and I think we can kind of converge around the hypothesis that money is kind of irrelevant to it. You could have an extremely rich person. You could have a billionaire who could easily pay cash bail who might be a flight risk or who might be a danger.
▶ 1:20:32You might have a very poor person who would qualify according to those two criteria but wouldn't be able to pay the money. So the money just seems to introduce an extraneous factor which is why some jurisdictions have chosen to follow the federal courts. In any event, the bill is fine with me because it will get us some basic information, but it would be interesting to do a real study of how it works in different places and what the effect is on public safety. Uh and I thank the gentle lady for yielding. Yield back to you.
▶ 1:21:01Thank you. And I would just like to add that um I agree with a lot of what my colleague on the other side just said, but I would like to respectfully disagree with one portion, which is that we're seeing rampant rubber stamping um on these cashless bail cases because oftent times those determinations are really dependent on the office of the DA and the politics coming out of that office.
▶ 1:21:26And if you have a, you know, um, amped up, uh, office that is not interested in, um, well, I I I'm trying to be as nice as I can because this is our last day, but I will just say um that it is often time dependent on the politics uh, and the vision of uh, the DA. So that with that, I'll yield back.
▶ 1:21:53Gentle lady yields. I'm sorry. I was being distracted by the ranking, but No, no, no. We're we're kidding. Uh, the gentleman from Kentucky is recognized.
▶ 1:22:03So, this really isn't a problem in Kentucky, and I have a few questions. Number one, isn't this a state issue? Number two, what are you going to do with the list?
▶ 1:22:13And number three, can't j chat, GPT, or Grock do what this bill does in like five seconds? Sorry.
▶ 1:22:20Like, why are we wasting wasting time on
▶ 1:22:24And does anybody want to answer those
▶ 1:22:27Isn't this a state issue? Because we solved it in Kentucky. Number number two, um, what are you going to do with this list when you get it? Because it is a state issue. And number three, in less than the five minutes you've yielded to me, chat, GPT, or Grock can do what this bill asks the DOJ to do. Anybody want to address that?
▶ 1:22:52Well, I'll address it.
▶ 1:22:53Please yield to me.
▶ 1:22:54I yield to
▶ 1:22:55I I would just say that the fact that what we're doing with this bill is uh acting on uh codifying, if you will, an executive order that instructed the Department of Justice to develop this, maintain a list that would be available so that folks in their own community would know uh if indeed cashless bail policies were there. and also for those that would be traveling to a particular area.
▶ 1:23:20Um certainly you make the point of chat GPT and a person could search in that but again this would be maintained so that folks from across the country would have access to that and would be able to see that.
▶ 1:23:33Well I appreciate that but now I've got another question. If it's already done by executive order why are we wasting time on it here again?
▶ 1:23:41Well again it's just codifying it. I yield back.
▶ 1:23:45All right. I I appreciate the gentleman and those are my questions and I yield Gentleman yields back. Who seeks
▶ 1:23:57Oh, gentle from Pennsylvania.
▶ 1:24:03Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd move to strike the last question. Um, I do have several concerns and I share the gentleman from Kucky's concern that uh this is a state issue. The Constitution reserves to the states in the 10th amendment general criminal justice powers, police powers for public health and safety. Um, and it is a very valuable part of our federal system that we have um, this great laboratory of ideas across the country.
▶ 1:24:32um where we have seen state and local governments um making reforms to their bail systems in response to the glow growing body of research which has highlighted the inequities in bail systems which disproportionately burden racial minorities, women and overwhelmingly the poor.
▶ 1:24:51So, I do have concerns about some of these bills which are um expressing a preference for a return to sort of the Denzian DTOR prison model um when none of these bail reform statutes or ordinances or whatever disregard public safety or um flight risk. I mean, that's always part of the equation here.
▶ 1:25:17So um given the level of interest by the committee and given um the questions that are being raised, it seems like it would be more productive for uh this this committee to hold hearings on bail reform and allow a full exploration of the ideas and the um actual evidence as opposed to the rhetorical uh pugilistics that we we are hearing just by marking up these bills.
▶ 1:25:46So, um, I I remain concerned, as I always have been, by the fact that we do have a two-tier system of justice in this country where access to lawyers or access to bail very often determines the outcome of your case. Um, you know, we shouldn't have a criminal justice system that just caters to the wealthy and the well-connected and those who can afford bail or pardons or anything else. So, with that, I would yield back.
▶ 1:26:12Gentle lady yields back. Mr. Chairman,
▶ 1:26:16gentleman from New York,
▶ 1:26:17move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:26:19Gentleman's recognized.
▶ 1:26:20Uh I think my my colleague from Kentucky brings up uh some good points and uh the one thing I would say is that this should not be an ownorous task for the department of justice to use chat GPT to uh conduct this study.
▶ 1:26:36Um but I think this the more data we have the better and I I think it is it could be helpful if it's done in a um in an objective manner uh which I highly question this department of justice to do um to generate some more data on uh bail and the success of bail because I think the data to date shows that cash bail
▶ 1:27:06is really ineffective at uh achieving the objectives of bail that as my colleague from North Carolina Mr. not said you you have if you want to make a determination um about dangerousness and I think that is a very worthwhile hearing for us to um whether someone is dangerous or not.
▶ 1:27:33Uh there no there's no degrees of dangerousness to say oh if you can make $10,000 of bail then all of a sudden you're no longer dangerous. And so the idea here is if you are found to be dangerous in jurisdictions that have dangerousness as a consideration, then it's binary and you should either be released or you should be remanded.
▶ 1:28:02And the idea of cash bail is simply the the result of cash bail is simply to discriminate based on poverty levels. um which is not what the intention of our bail laws should be. You also have to add, of course, risk of flight, which provides a a different element.
▶ 1:28:24And I think in in that way the federal system makes a lot more sense where you often will have bonds that have to be guaranteed by others, family members, close, you know, close um associ close you know colleagues or whomever it may be that show that they have enough money to pay them.
▶ 1:28:48So if that defendant decides to flee, he is creating a tremendous financial burden for those people who vouched on his behalf. But the idea that you say 5,000, 10,000, $20,000 based on the either the risk of flight or the severity of the risk of of uh of inflicting harm again makes no sense.
▶ 1:29:15And that is ultimately uh the problem with cash bail. Now it may result in some cases that the the more people are remanded initially but the net effect because so many people cannot pay their cash bail is that there will be fewer people remanded and much more narrowly targeted to people who are either serious risks
▶ 1:29:45of flight or potentially dangerous. So, I I I think that we ought to add uh to this bill a a further study of the different uh bail systems around the country. Um more than just a list and the list is a good start. Um obviously the department can do this on its own.
▶ 1:30:11We can also uh require this but this should be a first step not a last step. And I yield back.
▶ 1:30:18Gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes the gentle lady from uh I think it was Mr. Johnson. Then I'll come come to you if I think that was the order I was given. Mr. Johnson.
▶ 1:30:26Thank you. Uh Mr. [clears throat] Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to bill that requires the attorney general to compile a list of each state. We have 50 states.
▶ 1:30:42and each unit of local government that permits the release pending trial of a person charged with a covered offense [snorts] on personal recgnissance or upon execution of an unsecured appearance bond.
▶ 1:30:58And so, do do you guys realize we have 18,000 uh local and state jurisdictions that uh would have to provide this data uh to the attorney general?
▶ 1:31:16And then as far as covered I mean, you want to know whether or not a local government allows cash bond for an offense that uh promotes public disorder, such as looting, vandalism, rioting, inciting to riot, or fleeing from a law enforcement officer.
▶ 1:31:44These are misdemeanor offenses. But you want to know which states allow and which counties and cities and their courts allow cashless bond for individuals accused of those uh relatively minor offenses. It sounds like you're trying to u you know this is Antifa related.
▶ 1:32:11Sound sounds there's something nefarious about uh this this legislation and what it is seeking. It's like a Trojan horse and it's busy work also. Uh doesn't the attorney general have better things to do uh than to be compiling lists so that uh this committee can target and get back at folks that uh are from so-called uh Democratic cities.
▶ 1:32:39Uh the public is not concerned about that. They're concerned about affordability. They're concerned about what is government doing to make life better for them. Uh not, you know, insisting that government undertake uh a chase uh running behind its own tail trying to capture it uh just running in circles.
▶ 1:33:08uh this legislation uh I I just don't understand it other than the fact that it's uh trying to put together a hit list so that this committee can spend its time going after those jurisdictions.
▶ 1:33:23I think that we have better things to do on this committee and I would ask that um we start looking at some of the things like why would we not speak up when a guy who is responsible for importing tons of cocaine into this country and this committee doesn't have a a question no oversight
▶ 1:33:53No, I mean it's okay. The abuse of the pardon. That's not the first major drug dealer uh to be freed by a pardon. Yeah. I mean, this president has pardoned more I mean, Bitcoin billionaires. I mean, you know, and these are people that are doing business cuz of course this is a pay-to-play environment that this president has created.
▶ 1:34:23You don't get anything unless you pay. And uh this committee has so much work to do, so many things to look at in its oversight capacity, but instead is trying to compile a list of uh that require that uh allow judges in their discretion to uh release people on cashless bail.
▶ 1:34:52This is uh I mean the American people are watching this and wondering what did we vote for? Who did we vote for? And why did I make the mistake of voting in these folks? Well, you're getting what you paid for. You're vote. You're getting what you voted for. But there's time.
▶ 1:35:15We have 2026 coming up and I'm glad that the citizens I hope that we'll have an opportunity to vote because uh this president might even try to take that away. He's talking about running for a third term. He's got Allan Dersowitz coming to the and laying out strategies to uh be able to get a third term in office. Just ridiculous. And this committee could be looking at that.
▶ 1:35:44I'd prefer that we look at that as opposed to uh this kind of uh nonsense that is the cashless bail reporting act. I rise in opposition to it and with that I yield back.
▶ 1:35:58Gentleman yields back. Gentleman from North Carolina and then the gentle lady from North Carolina.
▶ 1:36:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield to my colleague from North Carolina, Mr.
▶ 1:36:08Thank you, Mr. Knot. I just want to point out that again um many of us that participated or a number of us that participated in the field hearing in Charlotte uh understood not only Arena Zerutska's situation that took us there but we also heard a very impassioned father that was there named Steven Federuka who talked about his daughter Logan uh who again we were there uh just astounded by the fact that a man that had committed 14 crimes uh was still out on
▶ 1:36:38the street and led to the uh senseless murder of Arena Zerutska. But there we learned from a father uh whose daughter Logan uh was killed by a man that if I recall it was 54 times he had been arrested and was still in the streets of Columbia, South Carolina that he she lived in North Carolina, lived in my district, but actually was visiting friends in Colombia when she was murdered by someone that again was out on the streets.
▶ 1:37:09I appreciate those on the other side that have spoken to the fact that this would give us the opportunity to look as a first step and I agree that we can go deeper in studies that we could do at some point. But this is a way of making the general general public and having available to them the jurisdictions across our country that are utilizing uh this type of cashless bail and these kind of uh more liberal approaches in our justice. And with that, I yield back. I yield.
▶ 1:37:40Gentleman from Carolina yields back. Gentle lady from Washington.
▶ 1:37:46Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I've been convinced after listening to this conversation that uh I agree with Mr. Massie. I mean, I agreed with Mr. Massie before. I wondered why this was on our docket. Um and I guess I was thinking, oh, you know, we'll just fight the fire where it really is. But I really don't understand why we're doing this because when you look at this whole we're getting involved in something that is left to it is a state issue.
▶ 1:38:17Um there are uh 41 state constitutions that have affirmative right to bail provisions and um nine states that don't have an affirmative constitutional right to bail but do mirror the federal language. And I guess I just think that this is sort of the precursor to the other bills that were on the docket for today.
▶ 1:38:40Um creating the hit list so we can make this a partisan thing and call out certain states that we don't like. Presumably they're going to be all Democratic states. I mean, I heard the reference just now to quote liberal bail policies. Um, so the the bias is showing through and I I do think that listening to this whole conversation, uh, I I agree with Mr. Massie that this is not something we should be spending our time on.
▶ 1:39:07If we want to have a real honest conversation about bail reform, have some hearings, listen to testimony, make sure we're addressing state federal issues. I think that would be one thing. But, uh, I don't think we should be wasting our time on this. And, um, I think I'm inclined to vote no. you'll
▶ 1:39:28Okay. Who seeks recognition?
▶ 1:39:32Question then is Mr. Chairman,
▶ 1:39:34the ranking members recognized.
▶ 1:39:35Yeah. I mean, the gentle lady from Washington, the the gentleman from Kentucky both raised, you know, serious questions about how necessary this legislation is given that it's information that's already available. Um, you know, I I um don't want to oppose it simply because I'm always for more information. Uh, and I uh legislation that advances uh information.
▶ 1:40:05I I I do think that the the good sponsor uh presented his bill in such a way as to alienate some people who are otherwise uh ready to vote for it. Um but um you know be that be that as it may um you know I still want to vote for a bill that's going to get us more information.
▶ 1:40:26I hope it would uh open to begin to open everybody's mind about getting more information because there's there are powerful arguments to be made that um systems that get rid of cash bail like the federal system work just as well or better in terms of promoting justice than those that include that financial motive component. But I I've got nothing to be afraid of in terms of uh more information.
▶ 1:40:51So I will resist every effort uh to make this an ideological partisan issue and I yield back to you Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:40:58The gentleman yields back. The question occurs on the adoption of the amendment the nature of a substitute. This will be followed immediately by a vote on reporting the bill. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed no.
▶ 1:41:09The chair. The eyes have it. The amendment the nature of substitute is adopted. The question is on favorably reporting the bill as amended. All those in favor say I.
▶ 1:41:16I. Those opposed no.
▶ 1:41:18No. The eyes have it and the bill is ordered to be reported favorably to the House. Members will have two days to submit views. Without objection, the bill will be reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute incorporating all adopted amendments and staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes. I want to wish everyone a merry Christmas and happy holidays. This will um I hope you have a wonderful time home with your family. But this will conclude the committee business for the uh today's meeting and the committee is