▶ 0:12:57Folks, we're going to wait just for another minute or two here for our ranking members and some of our subcommittee members to come in. So, we will be starting shortly.
▶ 0:17:12The subcommittee on research and technology will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recesses of the subcommittee at any time. I recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. I'd like to welcome everyone to today's research and technology subcommittee hearing entitled Advancing America's AI Action Plan. Today, we'll hear testimony from the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, Michael Katzios, on the administration's artificial intelligence strategy.
▶ 0:17:43As I think we all know, AI is poised to become a foundational driver of innovation worldwide. From serving as a personal assistant to generating computer code to advancing the frontiers of human science, the scope and impact of AI continues to expand at an a truly extraordinary pace. It is critical that Congress does its job in enacting an appropriate federal framework for this burgeoning new technology.
▶ 0:18:11It is also imperative that the framework maintains the position of the United States as the leading force in the development and deployment of worldwide AI. American leadership in AI is essential to sustained economic growth, technological advancement across a wide range of applications, and the protection of our national security, particularly as competitors such as the Chinese Communist Party seek to undermine US leadership in this space.
▶ 0:18:37Through my experience as co-chair of the bipartisan House AI task force last Congress, I've seen firsthand the importance of maintaining US leadership in this area. AI enabled cyber attacks are a growing threat that demands our constant vigilance. At the same time, as AI becomes more embedded in everyday life, Americans are entrusting vast amounts of personal data to these systems, heightening the risk that sensitive information could fall into the hands of malicious actors.
▶ 0:19:06Against this backdrop, last July, the White House unveiled Winning the AI race, America's AI action plan. This strategy is built around three pillars: innovation, infrastructure, and international diplomacy and security. It is critical that Congress works with the executive branch to craft a unified and effective national AI strategy.
▶ 0:19:29In December of 2024, the bipartisan House AI task force, which was co-led by Congressman Louu and myself, released a report outlining guiding principles for AI policy. This bipartisan effort resulted in 66 findings and 89 recommendations, many of which align with the AI action plan, including expanding access to computing power for researchers, investing in K12 AI education, and advancing AI evaluations.
▶ 0:19:55Among its recommendations, the task force called for cottifying the national AI research resource, what we call NAR, and strengthening the science of AI evaluation and standards. My legislation, the create AI act, would codify NAR while the forthcoming great American AI act will formalize the center for AI standards and innovation or Casey at the Department of Commerce to advance AI evaluation and standard setting.
▶ 0:20:21I am very glad to see that the administration's AI action plan includings includes many of the same tenants as the AI task force report including support for the continuation of NAR and for tasking the uh Casey with the critical work of developing standards and evaluating frontier AI models. I commend the center for its strong report last fall assessing the national security implications posed by deepseeek.
▶ 0:20:47The center serves as a critical hub for technical AI expertise within our government and I look forward to its continued work. OSTP under Director Katzios's leadership is steering the development of the AI action plan and will oversee its implementation as part of the nation's broader science and technology agenda. I hope that we can all agree it is critical that Congress now step up to the plate and work with the executive branch in developing a competitive vision for American leadership in artificial intelligence.
▶ 0:21:18I'd like to thank Director Katzios for being here today and I appreciate his willingness to appear before the subcommittee. We welcome his testimony on this critically important topic. Thank you very much. I'll now yield back the balance of my time and I'll recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, Representative Stevens of Michigan, for five minutes for her opening statement.
▶ 0:21:37Thank you uh so much, Mr. Chair, for holding today's hearing. And of course, thank you to Director Katzios for joining us today as well. OSTP uh has always held a very special place in my heart uh and is an agency or a division of the White House that we are grateful to have uh a connection to on this committee.
▶ 0:22:01And it is also very important that our thoughtful discussion today will be around implementing the administration's AI plan while protecting American workers. We all know that you you can't talk about AI innovation and American competitiveness without talking about Michigan manufacturing.
▶ 0:22:25And you can't talk about the future of manufacturing without talking about the National Institute of Standards and Technology or NIST. NIST is the little agency that could and it is at the forefront of our efforts in artificial intelligence, quantum, robotics, and advanced manufacturing.
▶ 0:22:50Thanks to the Chips and Science Act of uh that many of us in this room uh helped write and pass, uh NIST is bringing semiconductor manufacturing back to America to develop the next generation of AI chips right here at home.
▶ 0:23:10This semiconductor work is also critical to the administration's AI plan and we don't want to see uh the uh the agency uh being undermined uh something that has long been supported by Democrats and Republicans alike. Uh ju just to shine a light here and this is the work of our committee and this is what we do.
▶ 0:23:36we have authorizing ability and it's important to just shine a light. Uh the budget for the fiscal year um it slashed NIS funding by $325 million. $325 million and we're 500 jobs from the AY's lab program.
▶ 0:23:59You know, we know so many of us how sacred this work is and how important it is even when you just have just a handful of researchers working on these matters. And the cuts hinderness AI related efforts. They're going to weaken cyber security and privacy standards, something I have legislation on, and limit advanced manufacturing, physical infrastructure, and resilience innovation.
▶ 0:24:30And given the shared goal of supporting uh the the growth of advanced manufacturing, our our next generation, you know, this is something we see alive and well in Michigan. Uh continuing to grow through our supply chain, the the design of not only products but also our factory floors using AI applications.
▶ 0:24:54I'm really alarmed that the administration is trying to eliminate NIS manufacturing extension program. They repeatedly tried to do that last year. And the MEP program is designed to support well, not just Michigan, but all of the nation's small and midsize manufacturers to see them adopt advanced technology and compete on the global stage.
▶ 0:25:22And so in 2024 alone, just the MEP center in Michigan created or saved 5,000 jobs. Yet, like every other MEP center, it was on the chopping block. And what makes even less sense is that the administration's constant attacks on domestic chip manufacturing and the Chips and Science Act, which we should be all singing loud and proudly.
▶ 0:25:49the uncertainty that the manufacturers are um despite clear congressional desire to bring chip manufacturing back to America has been really frustrating and I was surprised to learn that we're kind of seeing the arbitrarily canceled semiconductor focused manufacturing USA institute in December that that happened and that's stalling a lot of progress.
▶ 0:26:17So, I could go on, but we're losing talent and institutional knowledge. We're shrinking, and frankly, we're destroying our research capacity and undermining global competitiveness, all while we're supposed to be touting how we can lead on AI. And so, I'm going to do everything I can in this subcommittee, Mr.
▶ 0:26:37chair for accountability to stand up for science, the science that Michiganders and our manufacturers rely on every day so we can continue to innovate and build. And I just want to thank every NIST public servant, the people in this room, and the people in the department. And with that, thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll I'll yield back.
▶ 0:26:59The gentleman yields back. I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, Representative Babin of Texas, for five minutes for his opening statement. Thank you, Chairman Obernolulti. Appreciate uh the uh Mr. Kretzios being here today and we're looking forward to his testimony. Uh we appreciate this this entire hearing.
▶ 0:27:19Um supporting the Trump administration's strategy to advance AI innovation, strengthen infrastructure and and reinforce international security is absolutely essential to maintaining US leadership in the global AI marketplace and promoting peace through strength. The threat posed by the Chinese Communist Party or CCP continues to expand in the AI domain.
▶ 0:27:46Foreign AI efforts, particularly those pushed by the CCP, present serious national security risks. From research espionage and AI enabled cyber attacks to the collection of American sensitive data, the AI action plan is designed to confront these threats by empowering the center for AI standards and innovation and the Department of Homeland Security to bolster cyber security protection for critical infrastructure.
▶ 0:28:15As as chairman of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee, it's very clear to me that the Trump administration's vision for American dominance in AI closely aligns with the bipartisan work of this committee. In January 2021, National AI Initiative Act of 2020 became law as part of the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2021.
▶ 0:28:40Led by the House SST Committee, this law charges key agencies within our jurisdiction to support AI research and development, many of which received additional policy direction through the AI action plan. As Chairman Obernoli noted, the findings and recommendations of the bipartisan House AI task force are also well aligned with this administration strategy.
▶ 0:29:06One such recommendation calls for expanding access to advanced computing resources for researchers. The committee's jurisdiction over the Department of Energy places us at the center of this initiative as DOE's national laboratories hosts three of the world's fastest scomputers. Frontier at Oakidge National Lab, Aurora at Argon National Lab, and El Capitan at Lawrence Liverour National Laboratory.
▶ 0:29:35Thus, this objective to expand access to computing power builds directly on these existing national capabilities. Moreover, these national laboratories along with DOE's office of science house some of the nation's leading AI expertise.
▶ 0:29:54Other agencies within our jurisdiction, including the National Science Foundation, also support cutting edge AI technical research and talent The Department of Commerce and the National Institute of Standards and Technology have a long history of developing nonregulatory standards for emerging technologies and providing independent model evaluations that the private sector can trust.
▶ 0:30:21Tackling complex policy issues surrounding emerging technologies like AI is nothing new for the science space and technology committee. From civil nuclear energy, space exploration, cryptography, information technology, biotechnology and genetics, blockchain and we have put forward sound policy that ensured US leadership.
▶ 0:30:45And while debates over specific AI policies will continue, our committee has an opportunity to advance common sense legislation that provides access to federal computing resources, supports research and development, trains the next generation workforce, offers independent model evaluations, and promotes consensusbased standards.
▶ 0:31:08Many of our members have put forward legislation that addresses the very policies recommended by the administration and the AI task force. I look forward to advancing AI legislation in the coming weeks and hope very much that this hearing will provide an ample opportunity to inform this process.
▶ 0:31:29Congress must ensure that America leads in AI and doing so will bolster our economic competitiveness, protect our national security, and promote our values of liberties and freedom. I appreciate your presence today, Mr. Katzios, and welcome your testimony. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:31:50Thank you, Chairman Babin. I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Representative Lafrren of California, for five minutes for her opening statement. Uh thank you Mr. Chairman and to uh thank you Mr. Katzios for joining us uh today. AI has the potential to reshape the American e economy and innovation ecosystem. I'm really excited about its promise and the potential opportunity it brings to improve productivity and to accelerate innovation.
▶ 0:32:18However, AI has also sometimes accelerated harmful and even criminal activities. Just a little over a week ago, XAI's chatbot Grock made headlines by generating thousands of instances of non-consensual sexual imagery, including child pornography at the request of users on X's main platform. We've also seen major instances of chat box encouraging users with mental health issues uh to murder and commit suicide.
▶ 0:32:49These are just two of many troubling examples. Nearly half a year has passed since the administration unveiled its AI action plan with a focus on innovation, infrastructure, international diplomacy, and security goals that I certainly appreciate and support. Unfortunately, the plan only minimally addresses the risks of AI. And even where it does, including with respect to deep fakes, the administration has failed to take meaningful action to address these risks.
▶ 0:33:19To the contrary, this administration's actions raise major questions about the disconnect between the action plans goals and reality. And I'd like to address just two specific areas where the administration's actions have raised concern. First, this administration has taken steps to prevent states like California from regulating against harms that have been created or exacerbated by AI systems.
▶ 0:33:44In December, President Trump signed an executive order that directs the Department of Justice to sue states over their AI laws and threatens to withhold billions in federal broadband funding from these states. This order asserts that the administration, not Congress, not state legislators, but the administration itself should have the power to decide what kind of state laws are too burdensome and to reallocate where billions of dollars should go as a result.
▶ 0:34:12I think this order is I'm not here to defend every state AI law that's been proposed or passed. Some of what California has adopted to protect its people is appropriate. And other legislation uh that was beyond the scope of what a state should do was vetoed by the governor with the support of the California congressional uh uh uh uh delegation. Uh vetoed because it went too far.
▶ 0:34:39But there was a reason Justice Brandise suggested that states are the laboratories of democracy. What we should not do is preempt the states from taking necessary actions to protect their citizens. While here in Congress, we do nothing to pass legislation ourselves. It's not just Democrats saying this. Florida Governor Ronda Santis has said that President Trump's executive order quote can't preempt state legislative action.
▶ 0:35:04And in November, a bipartisan group of 36 state attorney generals wrote to leaders of Congress opposing slap dash federal preeemption efforts. And I'd like unanimous consent to put this letter into the record.
▶ 0:35:17Without objection.
▶ 0:35:18Uh secondly, I'm very concerned by the administration taking cuts of revenue uh or equity in companies. The AI action plan emphasizes free markets, deregulation, getting government out of the way of the private sector. But over the past year, the administration has spent billions of taxpayer dollars to take direct ownership stakes in private companies. The government now owns nearly 10% of Intel, making it the largest shareholder.
▶ 0:35:45It holds equity positions in rare earth mining companies and is negotiating similar deals with quantum computing companies. This trend is unusual and concerning. In our nation's history, the US government has taken equity shares in private companies only in times of war or economic crisis. Actually, this is socialism on the part of the Trump administration.
▶ 0:36:07That's a charge that's sometimes made against Democrats, even though Democrats favor uh free markets, but it's what the Trump administration is actually doing, engaging in socialism. Now, how are the administration's actions different from Chinese state capitalism? I ask, Mr. rats. Yes, America can and must lead in the field of artificial intelligence, but it's going to take a whole lot more than empty promises and emulating the PRC to make that happen.
▶ 0:36:35I look forward to hearing from you about these challenges and others during today's hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
▶ 0:36:43Thank you, Ranking Member Lorren. Uh it's now an honor to introduce our witness. Our witness today is the Honorable Michael Katzios, who is the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. He is President Trump's chief science and technology policy adviser. And as the 13th director of the White House Office of Standards and Technology Policy, Director Katzios oversees the development and execution of the nation's science and technology policy agenda.
▶ 0:37:09He leads the administration's efforts to ensure American leadership in scientific discovery and technological innovation, including in critical and emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence, quantum computing, and In the first administration, he served as the fourth chief technology officer of the United States at the White House and as under secretary of war for research and engineering at the Pentagon. Prior to his service in the White House, Director Katios invested in, advised, and built technology companies in Silicon Valley.
▶ 0:37:39A South Carolina native, Director Katzios graduated from Princeton University. But we will not hold that against you and served as a visiting visiting scholar at Beijing's Singhow University. Without I now recognize Director Katzios for five minutes to present his testimony. Thank you, Chairman Albernalti and Ranking Member Stevens, as well as full committee chairman Babin and Ranking Member Lofrren for inviting me to speak to you today about the president's AI policies.
▶ 0:38:07Last July, the Trump administration released winning the AI race, America's AI action plan, outlining a strategy to maintain global leadership in AI based on three pillars: innovation, infrastructure, and international partnerships. Over the last six months, the administration has moved from strategy to execution as I and my team at the White House coordinate implementation across the federal government. I'm excited to highlight where we stand now in executing this playbook.
▶ 0:38:37But first, let me thank the members of this committee for all that you have done for American AI. As my office coordinates the administration's implementation of the action plan, I see many opportunities for collaboration with this committee and with Congress. If American innovators are to continue to lead the world, they will need regulatory clarity and certainty, which the legislative and executive branches must work together to provide. The action plan focuses on three main priorities for the US government.
▶ 0:39:06Removing barriers to innovation, securing energy dominance, and exporting our technology to partners around the world. In the past six months, we have seen tremendous progress in all these areas. in innovation. With the release of our request for information concerning regulatory reform on AI last September, we're working with industry and the American people to relieve innovators of undue regulatory burdens and to formulate policy frameworks that safeguard the public interest while enabling further revolutionary developments.
▶ 0:39:36I'm particularly excited about the innovative potential of the Genesis mission and AI for science. With the signing of that executive order, President Trump has mobilized the largest federal scientific effort since the Apollo program. By fusing massive federal data sets with advanced supercomputing capabilities, Genesis will help America's scientists automate experiment design, accelerate simulations, and generate predictive models for everything from medicine and energy to materials and agriculture. in infrastructure.
▶ 0:40:05Of course, the administration's effort to clear away red tape and facilitate AI construction have been enormously successful, but I'm especially excited about the energy capacity American industry is building, both to power the I revolution and all the other incredible technologies this new age of discovery will unlock.
▶ 0:40:22President Trump and the Department of Energy are committed to accelerating and enhancing the growth of American nuclear power, creating space to experiment, facilitating small module reactor buildout, and continuing the pursuit of fusion energy, international partnerships, and AI diplomacy. We continue to push back against global AI governance at the UN, G7, APEC, and other forums, and to defend great American companies from foreign nations stifling regulatory regimes.
▶ 0:40:50I'm particularly excited about the American AI export program. As the commerce and state departments roll that out, there will soon be a request for proposals shared with industry and a formal launch of the program in the coming months. Our goal is for US companies to provide modular AI stack packages that empower countries to develop sovereign AI capabilities with American technology.
▶ 0:41:14The action plan is a giant leap forward, furthering first steps President Trump took for American AI dominance in his first term. With the call for this plan in his first week back in office, the president recommitted himself and the country to American AI leadership. The need for renewed effort was clear. While in 2020, the American Innovation Eco Enterprise held a comfortable lead in AI over closest competitors, by 2024, the gap had begun to close significantly.
▶ 0:41:43But with his golden age vision of scientific rigor and technological progress, President Trump has restored a spirit of confidence to our innovation enterprise. We are approaching AI not with fear but with responsible boldness. Looking ahead, there is still so much to be done working together. As our innovators continue to find novel applications of AI technology to everyday life, we can ensure they benefit all Americans through small business training, workforce development, and AI education.
▶ 0:42:12I'm proud to say that more than 250 companies have signed the first lady's pledge to America's youth, committing hundreds of millions of dollars to investing in AI education. And I just returned from the consumer electronic show where there is obvious excitement about American AI, but also about what's ahead in quantum information science. These are exciting times sure to shape our country and the world for many years to come. Thank you all for your leadership. Well, thank you very much uh for your testimony.
▶ 0:42:42We will now move on to question and answers from the panel and we'll start with questions from myself. Uh so I'll recognize myself for five minutes. Uh director Katzios, I want to start with uh the points that ranking member Lafkin raised which I thought were excellent and uh uh and really pertinent as usual. Uh and in particular the point about preeemption.
▶ 0:43:05Uh so to be clear, I don't think anyone believes that the states shouldn't have a lane in regulating AI, but I think what everyone believes is that there should be a federal lane and that there should be a state lane and that the federal government needs to go first in defining what is under article one of the constitution interstate commerce and where those preemptive guard rails are that that where regulation is reserved only for uh regulation at the federal level and then outside those guardrails where the states are free to go be
▶ 0:43:35the laboratories of democracy that they are. So, uh the president recognized this in his executive order last month. Uh he's calling for Congress to uh work with the executive branch in defining what those guardrails are. I think there was an explicit acknowledgement in that executive order that congressional action is needed. It's not something that could be done unilaterally. Uh so, can you talk a little bit about what the administration's vision for that is and where you think those guard rails ought to be? Absolutely.
▶ 0:44:06Um the president first spoke about the need um for a sensible national policy framework actually in July when we released the AI action plan. And in that speech uh here in Washington, he made it clear that you know having a set of 50 different laws all across the country is actually not the best thing for American innovation. And as someone who's worked in Silicon Valley and worked with lots of startups and been at startups, I understand the challenge.
▶ 0:44:31And I think what is sometimes missed in this conversation is if you have this tremendous patchwork of laws all across the country, the folks who actually are able to work within that system most successfully are the deep pocketed large big tech companies, the small innovators, the entrepreneurs, the people who want to start new businesses. Forcing them to try to find a way to comply with 50 different sets of AI rules is actually anti-inovation and it's something that I don't think anyone on this committee actually supports.
▶ 0:44:57Um, the president then took another step forward in December of last year where we laid out an executive order charging me and David Sachs to work to create legislation to help find a path forward for sensible for a sensible national policy framework. And that's something that I very much look forward to working with everyone on on this committee for.
▶ 0:45:16I think what was clear in the executive order specifically was that um any proposed legislation should not preempt otherwise lawful state actions relating to child safety protections, AI compute and data in infrastructure um and also state government procurement and use of AI. Those are ones that were called out in the executive order, but we look forward over the next weeks and months to be working with Congress on a viable
▶ 0:45:41Well, thank you very much. And uh you know this is something that we have been grappling with now for several years. We had a whole chapter on preeemption in the AI task force report. Uh I think it was very helpful that the administration is also thinking about this issue and thinking about where those state lanes should be and how that they how they intersect with the federal lanes. So let's keep working on that.
▶ 0:46:01Uh I also wanted to uh in addition to commending you for the good work of Casey uh talk about the need uh for us in Congress to formally codify it and uh you know the the work it does in uh doing AI model evaluation uh is essential in creating what's a what's a toolbox a regulatory toolbox for our sectoral regulators so everyone doesn't have to reinvent the wheel.
▶ 0:46:24Um, but you know, we've had this in successive administrations now under the Biden administration, we had the AI Safety Institute, the Trump administration, we have Casey. Uh, there are many of the same functions that are performed by those organizations. But, uh, I think everyone would agree it's unhealthy for us to have every successive administration spin up a brand new agency that essentially is doing something with a long-term mission uh, that needs continuity.
▶ 0:46:49So can you talk about whether or not you think we in Congress need to go ahead and codify this as part of uh of implementing our national strategy on AI?
▶ 0:46:58I think Casey as as was kind of discussed previously I think is a a very important part of the larger AI agenda. Um, I think one of the important and um big steps that the administration took at the beginning of of last middle of last year was to reframe what was previously um a safety institute into one that is focused on uh standards and innovation.
▶ 0:47:24And I think from my perspective, the most important thing that can be done around Casey at NIST is to focus on what NIST is really good at. Um, and what Mrs. Stevens was talking about it's absolutely important that the the that the legacy work around standards relating to AI are undertaken by Casey and that's what they're challenged to do. Um and that's the focus that they should have because the great standards that are put out by Casey and by NIST are the ones that ultimately will empower the proliferation of this technology across many industries.
▶ 0:47:54Well, thank you very much for your testimony. I'm looking forward to hearing the questions from our other subcommittee members. I now recognize ranking member Stevens for her questions. Thank you. And so, Mr. I missed it in your bio uh that uh the chairman read. Could you just remind me what you were up to in uh the period of the Great Recession, particularly the years 09 and 10?
▶ 0:48:19What were you doing professionally?
▶ 0:48:20Yes. I was actually an investment banker for a year.
▶ 0:48:23Yeah. Okay. So, you you know that period of time pretty well. Yeah. I was
▶ 0:48:26quite personally. I I was in the department of the treasury working at uh on the on the auto rescue and it was this humble initiative um that was uh responsible for making sure the auto industry didn't go belly up and uh we then created the uh white house office of manufacturing policy coming out of that and one of the steady and delightful partners that we had during that period of time was the manufacturing extension partnership as you
▶ 0:48:56know from your investment banking career uh access to capital across our supply chain uh was just being squeezed and it was a terrifying time particularly in Michigan we were the nater of that great recession and so throughout my career I have seen uh outside of just what the proof in the pudding is for NIST MEP for every dollar spent $18 of output into
▶ 0:49:26the economy. I have we've seen directly how NISTM MEP has helped the small to midsize manufacturer who is really the elixir of our our communities and our our economic drivers the small businesses and we know that the cumbersome reality of technology development as we as as the chairman was just talking about Casey and you so nicely answered about its importance and did recognize
▶ 0:49:57NIST and the critical role that NIST has played. Uh that we have to have technology adoption throughout our supply chain and a recognition that NISTM MEP plays a a role in that.
▶ 0:50:13And so I just I just wanted to hone in that, you know, as we had put forth over a decade ago and Congress directed the National um Science and Technology Council housed within OSTP to develop a national advanced manufacturing strategy. Um and OSTP and NIST are in the process of updating that strategy.
▶ 0:50:39Um are you in a position to commit to uh ensuring that MEP and other NIS programs including um manufacturing USA which is this robust network of R&D labs that that will be central to its
▶ 0:50:58So that's a program run out of commerce and it's a conversation I would love to continue to have with Secretary Lutnik and and his team there. I think there's obviously important work across all of these NIS programs and would love to learn more about this one specifically with with the team at NIST.
▶ 0:51:11uh a couple years ago they they they celebrated uh their their anniversary you know and it's the manufacturing USA uh which works very closely with NIST and in some instances is funded through NIST and of course that the the MEP program and this is something that has carried through throughout a multitude of and uh was really designed to help us compete as as a nation visav other countries that have
▶ 0:51:41this collocation of R&D, tech transfer, and workforce development. So, I do appreciate you uh uh reaching out to the commerce secretary about it. We'd love to show you the one that we have in Detroit called Lyft. Uh the the workforce development, but is incredible that happens there, but also the the collocation of large, small, and midsize manufacturers that are all developing their their research and development.
▶ 0:52:09And then when you come and visit Lyft, you can come and see our MEP center. And I want them to show you directly how they are leading uh the these manufacturers. Uh they they are really one of the first enterprises that had down industry 4.0 and had a directive on that.
▶ 0:52:30And when we're looking at cut cutting costs, which we all know is so important for the taxpayer, it's and when we're going to look at all this great stuff in AI and how it gets applied and how it gets used and you know, nice that you have this framework cooking here. We're not going to leave people behind and we want to do it along our small and midsize manufacturer. So, thank you so much. And with that, I'll yield back. Mr. Chair,
▶ 0:52:55gentleman yields back. I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Babin for 5 minutes for his questions.
▶ 0:53:01Thank you very much and again welcome uh Mr. Kratz. We appreciate you being here. Uh the AI action plan recommends that NIST revise its AI risk management framework to remove bias and Uh first off, how do you re how do how do these recommended changes help ensure that government guidance remains neutral and consistent with American values of freedom and liberty?
▶ 0:53:30Uh thank you so much for that question. I think one of the recommendations out of the action plan was to do just that. Um I think as we've spoken a lot about NIST, it's an agency that is very near and dear to my heart and to the to the entire OSTP team. We want NIS to be focused on advanced scientific metrology. Inserting political rhetoric into their work is something that devalues and corrupts the broader efforts that NIST is trying to do across so many important scientific domains.
▶ 0:53:59So our hope through this effort is to depoliticize NIST as much as possible and to put in a place where it's promulgating standards which can benefit all scientific innovators across the
▶ 0:54:08Great. Thank you. Uh the Genesis mission proposes to modernize our power grid through the use of AIdriven First, how will this contribute to America's energy dominance? Well, broadly speaking, energy dominance and energy leadership has been a top priority for the president. Broadly, this theme of energy abundance for us, we believe that there's great technologies that are ultimately going to drive broader energy abundance.
▶ 0:54:36It can be everything from fusion technology that we have hope to have in the decades to come and even the use of AI to optimize grids and so many other ways to do it. So for us and especially for this president or national energy dominance council energy abundance is key and Genesis will be a big part of that.
▶ 0:54:51Exactly. And then second what specific short-term outcomes uh can we expect from the Genesis mission over the next two to three years? So on the on the short-term front, I think what we hope to do over the next year is to broaden the participation of Genesis across the government and across the international community. As you may have seen, the first big announcement around Genesis was the addition of partners across the private sector here in the United States.
▶ 0:55:19The tasking of the executive order to uh me and to OSTP as as um as a director has been to try to bring in and incorporate other agencies. And why that's so important to Genesis is the underlying thesis of Genesis is that the government has extraordinarily valuable scientific data that when pulled together and collaborated with AI can drive tremendous scientific discovery and acceleration.
▶ 0:55:43So our next step is how do we bring important potentially healthcare data or health or data from the National Science Foundation or from even NIST or other scientific agencies. And then the next short-term goal is to figure out who are our international partners in the scientific community that have things that they can offer the Genesis mission which was accelerates it its uh its ultimate goal. And then look looking further ahead, what is the long-term vision for the Genesis mission beyond its first decade?
▶ 0:56:09And how do you impact or how do you anticipate its impact evolving over time?
▶ 0:56:15I think the overarching goal that we have said consistency consistently is that the Genesis mission's goal is to double the output of US R&D in a decade. And we want to be able to do that by focusing on some very large grand challenges. everything from across energy to biotech to drug discovery, nuclear fusion, critical minerals, and that's kind of our northstar.
▶ 0:56:36Absolutely. Uh and then uh to maintain a competitive advantage over our bad actors like the Chinese Communist Party, President Trump has emphasized the need to build baby build across the US economy uh and our critical infrastructure. And from your perspective, Director Kratzios, what elements of the AI action plan most effectively strengthen the US economy and position the United States as the global leader in AI?
▶ 0:57:04Well, well, I I don't know. I I'm very biased because I love the whole report. So, I think each of the three pillars is plays a big part in what you're arguing for. I think on the on the building front, obviously, pillar two around infrastructure and data center buildout is is extraordinarily critical. We want to develop a regulatory environment that allows these uh the product the sort of standing up of this AI infrastructure to happen and and also in a way that doesn't necessarily adversely affect American rateayers. The second piece is is around the regulatory structure.
▶ 0:57:33We want to create a regulatory environment where our greatest innovators can develop and promulgate their AI technologies here in the US in a safe way and we think we're charging toward towards that. And the last piece, which has been a a sort of a a big sort of priority for me even from my time in Trump 45, we have to continue to invest in critical AI research and development funding as a federal government.
▶ 0:57:54Um, and there's been a lot of talk about federal budgets and the president's proposal the last year, but the key thing that I always try to remind people is even in our attempt to try to rightsize the budget, the one area where we have kept a consistent amount of proposed budget funding has been in AI. We believe that this is a critical research priority for the administration and it's something that we're continue to fund.
▶ 0:58:15Absolutely. Thank you so very much. And my time is expired. Mr. Chairman, yield
▶ 0:58:19Gentleman yields back. I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Representative Lorren of California for five minutes for her
▶ 0:58:26Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to return to a point that I raised in my opening statement. The non-consensual manipulation of people's photos and the rampant uncontrolled dissemination of sexualized images of children is evil, disgusting stuff. Uh and instead of acting quickly to stop it, Elon Musk seemed to revel in it until uh public pressure became uh too intense. And then what did he do?
▶ 0:58:54Uh he has now said only paid subscribers can have access to Grock's image generation feature. So pedophiles uh could previously conjure up these images for free, but he's now monetized the feature and will be collecting $3 monthly from depraved individuals who choose to subscribe. He's created a revenue stream for child pornography.
▶ 0:59:18It sure looks like uh laws against the creation and dissemination of child sexual abuse material are being broken. However, President Trump is sending American taxpayer dollars to XAI through a deal made in September. Essentially, we're paying Elon Musk to give perverts access to a child pornography machine. Now, you're the president's chief science and technology policy adviser and the administration's point person on AI.
▶ 0:59:46So, we want you to give us answers on this. I'm going to be sending a letter shortly to in initiate our investigation into this issue, but anyone with a stake in this should be working to determine what went wrong and to ensure it never happens again. I welcome all of my colleagues, both Democrats and Republicans, uh, to join with me in sending this oversight letter, which I shared with Chairman uh, Babin yesterday.
▶ 1:00:12Stamping out child sexual exploitation should not be a partisan issue. Now, I I have several questions for you, director. Were you involved in the decision to enter into the partnership with XAI allowing federal agencies to utilize Grock for government work? Is the general service uh services administration partnership with XAI still active and being used to integrate Grock into federal agency work streams?
▶ 1:00:41Uh even with the disgusting news of the past few weeks, when the news broke regarding the child sexual abuse images being created by Grock, did you take any steps to ensure that federal agencies were no longer able to use Grock, at least until we are sure that the issue had been addressed? Have you personally briefed President Trump on the recent events involving Grock? You're the highest ranking science adviser in the White House. We should be heavily involved in federal action on this matter.
▶ 1:01:11Have you engaged with the Department of Justice on this sh this issue with the FCC, the FTC, the GSA?
▶ 1:01:19So, I I'm not involved in in procurement decisions at at the GSA. Um I think broadly speaking, the Trump administration is committed to protecting the dignity and the privacy and the safety of children in the digital age. The misuse of AI tools requires accountability for harmful or inappropriate use, not necessarily blanket restrictions on the use and development of of that technology.
▶ 1:01:46On the issue of Grock, which I'm not personally involved with in any way, um if the federal employees are misusing a government AI platform in a harmful or inappropriate way, they that should be addressed and those people should be removed from their positions. Um, I don't have any specific insight into the the federal procurement process, but I would refer you to an April 2025 OM memo titled Accelerating Federal Use of AI through Innovation, Governance, and Public Trust.
▶ 1:02:16That memo provides guidance on how agencies can promote the responsible adoption, use, and continued development of AI while ensuring appropriate safeguards are in place to protect privacy, civil rights, and civil liberties and to mitigate any unlawful Now, as many people on this committee know, the Trump administration has clearly demonstrated our willingness to implement guard rails against inappropriate use of AI as evidenced by the signing of the Take It Down Act by the president
▶ 1:02:46that was signed last May.
▶ 1:02:48If if I may, Mr. Mr. Katzios, uh yes, the GSA uh is doing this, but we are essentially paying Musk and we're going to have a problem here. I mean, inevitably, uh, there's going to be a misuse, but even if, uh, we fire, uh, federal employees who create pornography using Grock, that we would be paying, uh, Mr. Musk until he creates, uh, a a a barrier to this misuse is very troubling to me.
▶ 1:03:18Um, you know, I'm for technology. I'm from Silicon Valley. I grew up there, uh, and still live there. But if we do not resolve misuse, we are going to have a serious impediment uh to the development of AI. In addition to the impact on employment, I'm I'm just noting that the ranking member of the subcommittee mentioned uh employment manufacturing employment is down 68,000. We lost 161,000 bluecollar jobs last year.
▶ 1:03:49So with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back and I will make available this letter to you as which I've already shared with Chairman Babin.
▶ 1:03:58Thank you, Representative Lafrren. We'll hear next from the representative from North Carolina, Mr. Rouseer. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:04:05Thank you, uh, Mr. Mr. Chairman. Um, Mr. Katius, thank you so much for being here. Uh, first question is, uh, what would you consider the main hurdle to innovation? Is would that be the lack of federal preeemption? I would assume that probably be in the top three. Just wanting to see what your answer is.
▶ 1:04:22That that is certainly up there. Um I think for us providing regulatory clarity to America's innovators is extraordinarily important. Um I think the the other piece of the puzzle which um I always talk about is we want to create a regulatory environment that provides a level of clarity and a level of understanding for all of our innovators. And the most important part of that is promulgating and working towards a use case sector specific approach to AI regulation.
▶ 1:04:49Creating a uh regulation around AI is not the way that we can best deal with all these new AI technologies. Folks that are developing AI AI powered medical diagnostics should continue to be regulated by the FDA. For example, um anyone who's developing a drone should continue to be regulated by the FAA. And I think some of the impediments especially there's been great examples globally about the things that we should definitely not do.
▶ 1:05:15Things like the EU AI act is a terrific example of a mistake that can be made where you try to create a one-sizefits-all regulatory regime and ultimately you end up with less innovation. Yeah. A core pillar of the AI action plan is infrastructure, including our nation's ability to develop a skilled workforce to use uh cutting edge AI systems. Uh North Carolina as you know has a growing ecosystem of higher education preparing the next generation of AI professionals.
▶ 1:05:43Uh UNCC Wilmington and Fable State University in my district offer AI focused education with hands-on experience and community colleges such as the Capefir Community College in my district uh is advancing AI literacy and technical skills. Uh employer access obviously to these next generation workers with these needed skills is critical. uh for economic development and competitiveness.
▶ 1:06:08Uh can you comment how is the uh federal government working uh with these uh colleges and universities across the country including in North Carolina uh to strengthen AI focused workforce development programs.
▶ 1:06:21Yeah, this is so important and for us we believe that a education is something that begins in K through 12 and extends well past when you even graduate from from college. And at each of those levels, we have different programs and initiatives to drive that AI reskilling and upskilling to happen. In K through 12, the administration through executive order launched the AI education task force, which I chair with the first lady. And there's been a tremendous amount of effort around how we can teach America's youth to understand and essentially demystify this technology.
▶ 1:06:50It's not just about teaching students how to use the technology, but understanding what the technology is. What is AI good for? What is it not good for? when should you be using it, when you shouldn't, when should you not be using it, when does it go go go ary and I think that's the type of programs that we're trying to do for K through 12. And we've partnered with so many companies, nonprofits, and civil societies that have donated hundreds of millions of dollars of free resources to K- through2 students to benefit from it.
▶ 1:07:16If you move up the chain, the great community college work and stuff that you're talking about is very important to be able to train students who want to enter into these 21st century economy jobs that require AI skills. And a lot of work is being done with the Department of Labor. They've awarded nearly a hundred million dollars in AI skills training programs. And these are things that are equipping our next generation of of Americans to take full advantage of this technology.
▶ 1:07:40In my uh last minute and 20 seconds here, uh you know, AI has the potential to revolutionize industries, all industries really, uh but particularly of of interest to me is agriculture and transportation. and uh everything from pre precision farming and crop yield uh to traffic management and autonomous uh vehicles and across the country. These sectors are showing growing interest in leveraging AI obviously to improve efficiency and drive innovation.
▶ 1:08:09Uh can you talk about federal agency coordination in that space?
▶ 1:08:13Absolutely. I think what's so um unique about this technology and and why I particularly like the the role that that I have in my office is that as you say it very correctly, this is a technology that is touching so many different industries. The teams at Department of Agriculture that are working on on things related to um to to the way that it impacts a to the folks at FAA that are working on drones and DOT that are working on autonomous vehicles.
▶ 1:08:37We try to be the hub to kind of bring all that together and uh and through a national science technology council we bring agencies together to talk about those issues. And what we tend to see and where we try to deconlict is where there's agency overlap. If you're trying to use drones in a um to to in your sort of farm for example, there's FAA equities, there's DHS equities, there's a equities. Um and we're the agency that can kind of help bring all those people together to the table. But we see a huge huge potential impact for the country.
▶ 1:09:05Well, thank you for your great work. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. We will hear next from the gentleman from Virginia, Representative Subramanium. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:09:14Uh thank you, Mr. Katos, for being here. Good to see you again. I'm a for OTP staffer. I think we transitioned our office to you when you first started in the Trump administration. So, thank you for stepping up to serve again and uh I know OTP uh certainly is a very important uh place uh for this committee and I appreciate all the work you've done for OSTP.
▶ 1:09:33Um, one of the things that both of us have worked on is attracting uh really good tech talent uh to government and um whether it was the US digital service or the presidential innovation fellowship and and now I think I don't know if you're involved in the US tech force but that's the kind of the newest branding of essentially trying to get the people who are who can build an app to get your pizza in five minutes to get you your social security benefits in five minutes or um or help with some of these big issues in technology both create standards as well as maybe help develop the basic
▶ 1:10:03research that a private industry can use. Um, but we're really concerned. You know, some of my consultants, for instance, worked at NIST and they fired over 400 employees. Uh, NSF has lost over a third of its staff. And so, how do we u figure out this project because we know we all agree here that, uh, you know, technology and innovation is critical, uh, and government plays a role in that.
▶ 1:10:26Um h how do you reconcile trying to recruit for this US tech force with the firings of technologists who I think are right now very nervous about working in government now?
▶ 1:10:37Um I I tend to kind of view those as as as separate issues. I think on the on the first one relating to bringing technical talent into government, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean we worked together on some of those issues and and I did throughout the first first Trump term.
▶ 1:10:51I think what's unique about um the tech force initiative and what um OPM is driving with that is the buyin from the private sector I think is unique to that program something we haven't seen in in previous programs um and I think that's special there was essentially calls out to the to the tech community and saying like look like it is a national imperative to have the very best technologists in government working on the problems that will impact American citizens and because of the great leadership of the president we were able to get so many companies to step up and
▶ 1:11:21say, "Yes, I'm willing to allow some of my employees to go to a tour driven government and be sure of that when they come back on the other side, they won't be struggling to find a job, wherever it may be." So, I think this unique partnership and this sort of this this coming together of the nation to understand that you can actually use technology to solve these huge problems for the American people is one of the highest callings. So, we're very excited. The latest number I heard was over 35,000 Americans have put forward interest in participating in Tech Force. That's insane.
▶ 1:11:51That is incredible. That is something we should all be celebrating this entire committee. The fact that we have so many great Americans that want to step in, move their families and their lives to DC to solve these problems for Americans is just incredible. And um and I really want to applaud OPM and the and the great team there for it. I think the second piece around personnel at at agencies, I think, you know, as any business thinks about the way that they can best optimize what they're trying to deliver, um what's in their statutory mandate and what the president wants to execute.
▶ 1:12:21Um there's no reason not to reook holistically at how organizations function. And I think that's what a lot was done in the in the first term. And I think a lot can be said about sort of the misdirection of some of these agencies as as we came into office. So, I think it's um the American people deserve leadership at these agencies that are willing to make the hard decisions in order to rightsize these agencies for the objectives and their statutory mandate.
▶ 1:12:45I guess you're saying that the NIST uh firings and riffs were essentially um in support of the president's sort of goals uh when it comes to science technology. But I I I don't understand. Could you explain more why we should be firing 400 people at NIST? I'm not familiar with the particular firings at N. So I don't want to speak for the secretary of commerce or anyone there.
▶ 1:13:07But I do think broadly when it comes to the way that you think about your personnel and the team that you have for anyone who's worked at a company or anywhere else, you want to field the team that can best execute on what you're trying to accomplish. Um, and I think there was a a very appropriate uh and uh look at how these organizations are structured and the way that we can best deliver results for for everyday Americans.
▶ 1:13:29We'll agree to disagree on that last part, but yeah. Um the second part is um you've also been working on this and I've been working on uh AI safety and AI sort of the the risks and how to mitigate these risks for a long time and it's not um some people may think that there's no work being done on this but they're very wrong. There's actually a lot of work happening on this and has been for a long time and I know you've been sort of supportive of that.
▶ 1:13:52Just very quickly since we have a little bit of time left um how how do you see the federal government's role in supporting the work that's happening when it comes to um mitigating the risks of AI and finding the right balance between you know not let's say full bans on products or or things um you know promoting innovation while still also addressing the real concerns that people have.
▶ 1:14:15Yeah, I think my short answer to that is I think there's a very important role for NIST and Casey to play in promulgating um advanced metrology on model evaluation and that is something that can be used across um all industries when they want to deploy these models you want to have trust in them so that when everyday Americans are using whether it be medical models or anything else they are comfortable with the fact that it has been tested and evaluated and NIS has a very special place in being able to set standards around testivo I yield back.
▶ 1:14:45Thank you.
▶ 1:14:45Gentleman yields back. We'll hear next from the gentleoman from South Carolina, Miss Biggs. You are recognized for five
▶ 1:14:52Thank you, Chairman Obernalty. And thank you. I'm grateful to have um a fellow South Carolinian here today, Director Katzios, for coming and testifying. Artificial intelligence is an emerging technology with the potential to drive efficiency in business, to spur a renaissance in in the energy sector, and to revolutionize scientific research and improve the everyday lives of all
▶ 1:15:23Americans like mine that live in the third district of South Carolina. At the heart of the AI buildout are a set of President Trump's executive orders, including the AI action plan and the Genesis mission. It is critical that we get the AI buildout right to ensure American techn technological and scientific dominance for our future We are not competing alone.
▶ 1:15:51Adversarial nations like China are racing the United States to com to complete a full deployment of AI and whoever wins this will dominate the global market. One aspect of this race is openweight AI. Openweight AI or AI whose training parameters are public knowledge.
▶ 1:16:14This allows endusers to customize the AI for their specific needs with their own data and affords them greater privacy since they can be run by the end user. Right now, China is starting to take the lead in the space with over a dozen openweight model models on the market while the US has mostly focused on closed models, models whose training is not public knowledge.
▶ 1:16:44This actually gives China a large geostrategic advantage in many countries and with companies that prefer to locally host and customize AI models. So my question is how does the proliferation of Chinese openweight AI models on the global market pose a risk to the dominance of the American tech to the American tech stack?
▶ 1:17:12And how can we combat the Chinese and open weight
▶ 1:17:18This is actually a very good question and something we we think a lot about. Um I think the the first way to think about it is the reason why our adversaries are are and our competitors are pushing ahead with emphasis on open source is because they are behind. And the clear answer and result and and strategy you want to take if you're behind is you try to open source it to to try to gain as much usage as you can for your your sub-optimal model.
▶ 1:17:43That being said, there are tremendous benefits associated with having open-source models available. Many individual companies and governments around the world will want to use it for all the reasons that you so correctly stated in in in your question. Um, for us, how do we want to we want to build a vibrant open-source large language model ecosystem here in the United States that was emphasized in the action plan. There has been funding that has put out by the National Science Foundation to help focus on driving open source research.
▶ 1:18:11Um, we continue to encourage our great American AI labs to push forward with open initiatives and open source projects. um by some metrics the the chat oss uh model which is an open source model here in the US is is one of the most used downloaded uh models in in the world today. Um there's also a number of of startups that are doing tremendous work in this space and we'll be releasing their open source frontier models hopefully this year. Reflection is a is is one that comes to mind.
▶ 1:18:39So we as a government want to kind of encourage a competitive ecosystem that can allow these open source models to succeed. And as we build out our AI export program, um it will not surprise me if a lot of the target comp countries that we're trying to target with our AI stack are interested in open source. We want to have a a a viable American
▶ 1:18:59Thank you so much. Um quickly, I'll try to get my second question in. The United States must also balance global exports with security. We cannot allow our adversaries to use our tech in order to displace us at the global as the global leader. So the AI action plan task the department of commerce with exploring location verification technologies to prevent our best chips from being used by adversaries.
▶ 1:19:27What are some examples of this and how can how can agencies in Congress support this mission? I think generally we want to create an export control environment that um protects the sort of crown jewel technologies that drive AI development from getting in the hands of our competitors. It's something that um Secretary Lutnik and the president and the administration have been um very clear about. So the the top end chips for example continue to be export controlled and it's something that um we're going to continue to track very closely.
▶ 1:19:57Thank you. And my time is has expired so I yield back.
▶ 1:20:00The gentleman yields back. We'll hear next from the gentleoman from Delaware, Miss McBride. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:20:06Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Stevens. Thank you so much, Director Katzios, for joining us today. You mentioned earlier data centers and the administration's concern with mitigating community impact. And I've certainly heard from countless Delawarians that are worried about data centers being constructed in their communities, straining our energy and water supply, and increasing the cost of utilities for all of us.
▶ 1:20:30That's why I fought for funding and legislation aimed at developing liquid cooling technologies produced in my state of Delaware that will ensure data centers are smaller and more environmentally friendly. This is a common sense investment in a smarter, more sustainable future that could shrink physical data center footprints by as much as 60% and cut energy consumption by as much as 90%.
▶ 1:20:53And so I'd love to hear from you about what the administration is doing specifically to mitigate the effects of data centers on their surrounding communities. And is the administration uh utilizing its uh its funding capacity to incentivize liquid cooling technologies as part of that mitigation strategy?
▶ 1:21:14I think the many of you may have seen the truth that the president uh put out a couple of days ago where he made clear the administration position on data centers and electricity prices for rateayers. Um what he wrote there was he he essentially wanted to make sure that American technology companies who are building data centers um are footing the bill for their technology buildout.
▶ 1:21:37Um and he commended an announcement by Microsoft that um that happened just this week where they have essentially taken that message to heart and have committed that anytime they build a data center they will pay 100% of the of a generation costs. We'll continue to work with technology companies to make sure that this is a reality um because at the end of the day we want to make sure that rateayers are protected.
▶ 1:21:58Um the other thing that the that the administration has done which was a big change from the previous administration was a changing in the way that we can approve behind the meter energy production. Um under the Biden administration uh behind the meter production of energy electricity was banned. Um and because of that if you're a data center provider you had to um by law tap into the uh larger grid for that for that energy.
▶ 1:22:22um uh FK under under President Trump changed that uh and now um you can do behind the meter build out. Um that's something that that um that obviously uh is is is beneficial to to to general rate payers. Um I think probably more in my portfolio and is is is the question around what kind of technologies can we build to make data centers more efficient. Um I don't know the specifics about the liquid cooling, but at first glance that sounds amazing. Let's figure out who's who's working on that and and and get some funding towards it.
▶ 1:22:51Um uh you know my hope would be as a as a as a free market person that um a lot of these data center providers and chip developers would be extraordinarily incentivized to try to be more productive. So hopefully I'm catching on to that tailwind and finding places where more fally funded R&D could be beneficial could help turbocharge
▶ 1:23:08Great. I I look forward to hopefully working with you specifically on on the benefits and potential of that liquid cooling technology. I'd also be remissed if I I didn't mention the administration's AI action plan released last year. you've talked about it. Among other things, it suggests that we need clear national standards for people to truly trust and use AI. Uh, and I I I heard Chair Babin earlier say that he supports consensus based standards as well. And I'm happy to say I agree with that.
▶ 1:23:35That's why I was proud to introduce the Read AI models act with Chair Aloni. This bill would direct NIST to standardize evaluation documents for AI models. I like to think of it as nutrition labels uh for AI models through a consensusbased process consistently documenting information needed to assess safety, performance, and risk of AI models in a modular and voluntary manner. This would bring transparency to AI in a way that's simple, consistent, and accessible.
▶ 1:24:05The administration's AI action plan sees national AI standards as a tool to build trust. Do you think that standardized modular evaluation documents for AI models like the one I described would be
▶ 1:24:16I I think things like that are are obviously things to look at and and think about and work on. To me, when I when I broadly think about AI standards, the first thing that comes to mind is there is an an unfortunate overemphasis on the evaluation of a small handful of frontier models.
▶ 1:24:34The reality is that the most implementation that's going to happen across industry is going to happen through fine-tuned models for specific use cases and it's going to be trained on specific data that the large frontier models never had access to.
▶ 1:24:50So in my opinion, the greatest work that NIS could do is to create the science behind how you measure models such that anytime that you have a specific model for finance, for health, for agriculture, whoever is attempting to implement it has a framework and a standard around how they can evaluate that model because at the end of the day, the massive proliferation is going to be through these these smaller fine-tuned models for specific use cases.
▶ 1:25:14Well, definitely uh definitely agree that that those are are worthy goals and I hope you'll work with me and and the chair on on our legislation and we welcome feedback and collaboration. So, thank you very much. I yield back.
▶ 1:25:26Thank you.
▶ 1:25:27Gentleman yields back. We'll go next to my colleague from California, Mr. Fong. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:25:34Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um first, I'd like to thank you, Director Kas, for your work on advancing AI policy and AI education specifically. uh you're you're being chair of the AI education task force is important and foundational um especially uh uh as the White House has prioritized AI literacy um um across um across our society.
▶ 1:25:54And I want to thank you for working with me on my bill HR 5351 uh the NSF AI education act uh which would address gaps in research, education and workforce development in AI by allowing the NSF to award collegiate AI scholarships, create public private partnerships u when it comes to AI fellowships and establish up to eight regional centers of AI excellence at community colleges and career technical education schools. U I wanted to uh follow up on my from from my colleague from North Carolina.
▶ 1:26:21How is your office working with NSF and other agencies to ensure rural students in their communities have increasing access uh to STEM education AI literacy opportunities so they can take full advantage of AI applications uh with confidence and responsibility. So, the the NSF advanced technology education or at program is one that we work on with NSF and and that focuses on two-year institutions of higher education with with the goal of supporting the education of technicians for high technology fields that that drive a lot of a lot of the nation's economy.
▶ 1:26:51Um, the other program which you may be familiar with is the experimental learning for emerging and novel technologies or excellent program. Um and that supports experimental learning opportunities for individuals from all professional and educational backgrounds and it uh it results in increased access to and interesting career pathways in a in a variety of technology fields. Um and actually I think the uh I think Cal State um Fresno is a is a recipient and participant in that.
▶ 1:27:18Great. Well uh I I certainly invite you to my district to Fresno State Cal State Bakersfield. We have a number of community colleges uh and trade schools that are are actively working to develop a skilled workforce when it comes to emerging technologies. Um uh just to build up uh build on on on that on on the programs you've outlined, how can uh uh my education institutions, how can they integrate AI education training uh into these programs uh those that may uh is there a way that interface uh with with with you and your office?
▶ 1:27:46Um and what can Congress do to to support uh these partnerships? I think congressional standpoint we should continue to support these um both through authorization appropriation. I think these are important programs for driving the reskilling and skilling of Americans broadly um to the extent of of specific um specific organizations that want to be involved. Feel free to have them connect with our office and we can make sure they're linked up with the appropriate folks at at NSF.
▶ 1:28:11Perfect. Um, and then in terms of the AI action plan, I know it charges uh the DOE and NSF to invest in in the development of AI test beds uh for piloting AI systems in secure real world settings uh so that researchers can prototype new AI systems and translate them to the market. What are some ways that utilizing these AI test beds would benefit American competitiveness and Americans overall?
▶ 1:28:33Yeah, test beds are such a critical place. I think with anyone who's worked on sort of technological innovation or broad scientific discovery, you need places where you can do the experimental work and get the feedback loop of seeing what happens when you try something and then going back to the lab bench, tinkering with it and going back out. And NSF has funded a few test beds related to to AI and and is looking to do more. And I think what's critically important is we we have these test beds both for folks that do the metrology work at places like NIST and people who do more of the basic science at at NSF.
▶ 1:29:03So, we're we're big supporters of these test beds and we think that they're they're true accelerants to to
▶ 1:29:08Perfect. Well, I want to thank you for your work again and I look forward uh to uh to uh partnering with you, especially when it comes to your work on the education uh the AI education task force. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 1:29:18Thank you.
▶ 1:29:19Gentleman yields back. We'll hear next from my colleague from California, Representative Rivas. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:29:25Thank you, Mr. chairman for holding today's hearing and um director uh Katzios for being here today to discuss AI. Uh AI and AI generated content is becoming more prevalent in every aspect of our lives. It's something that we as a Congress must become more proficient in, better understand, and help ensure the technology is being used responsively, safely and effectively.
▶ 1:29:50I hope that we can find bipartisan solutions towards AI proficiency as we begin this session in Congress. Uh last August, I held a roundt with AI leaders in my district where I heard about how schools and small businesses are successfully using AI to streamline processes but also heard about the pitfalls of AI and right now especially around literacy and safety. Um this is an issue that is a focus of mine.
▶ 1:30:19Um, last fall I introduced my AI for all act to improve AI literacy and education across the country. Uh, my bill will help ensure that the federal government has a national strategy to improve AI literacy. Uh, how AI has and will evolve using AI safely and effectively and ensuring that we can continue to be a global leader in AI. Well, I know that you have spoken in the past about the White House task force on AI education.
▶ 1:30:49Um, can you describe your vision uh for the federal government federal government's role in increasing AI literacy and what role do you see Congress playing in that?
▶ 1:31:00Absolutely. The the Trump administration is committed to ensuring that all American workers are prepared to to leverage AI and we've done a few things. I think first is promoting K- through2 literacy and profession uh proficiency among America's youth and that's been a big priority of the task force. We're also working to scale apprenticeship programs and other novel approaches to post-secary education to align with industrydriven skill requirements that we're seeing increasingly become important.
▶ 1:31:29We're also working to develop regional AI learning efforts to promote state and local government and small business adoption of AI as as you mentioned. Um, and and lastly, we've been designing new models of workforce innovation to match the speed and scale of the AIdriven transformation, including rapid retraining and reskilling of of replaced workers. Um, I think one of our cabinet secretaries that has spoken about this issue a lot is actually our small business administration, um, Kelly Leler.
▶ 1:31:57And what she often talks about is as she talks to to small businesses in America, as you mentioned, they see it's a true impact to the way that they that they operate. um more Americans work for small businesses than any other type of business in the US. So the impact can be quite can be quite dramatic and especially when you're working in environments where you know the total employees are are a handful the leverage you can get through this technology can be great can be quite dramatic.
▶ 1:32:20Uh but what role do you see congress playing in implementing um these programs and your vision for AI?
▶ 1:32:28Absolutely. I think to me support that Congress can put behind the efforts that the that the AI that the AI education task force is pushing would be would be very wellreceived. Um the first lady has been very vocal and very public about the importance of helping demystify this technology for America's youth. We've established the presidential AI challenge where students from around the country are competing in this challenge and ultimately going to come to the White House later this spring to present their projects to to the president and to to to the team at at at the White House.
▶ 1:32:58We want to um essentially have a lot of these programs last in into the future. Uh and and would love to work with Congress to find ways to identify the most impactful, the most beneficial, the the the AI education programs, make the biggest impact and and make sure that we can turn them into into law.
▶ 1:33:14Okay. Well, thank you um for sharing your thoughts on this. Um I want to pivot and close on the idea of an AI moratorum um that you and the Trump administration are putting forward. I've been leading my House colleagues against this idea going back to the reconciliation process last summer where the same concept was stripped out of HR1. Uh the newest version of this concept uh would withhold essential broadband funding from states at the whim of the Trump administration.
▶ 1:33:44We have already seen how the administration tries to use federal funds as a weapon um in the president's everpresent crusade against perceived enemies. Um, let's just call this mortoriium what it is. Another handout to billionaire tech bros and nothing to actually help workingclass families. AI technology is growing quickly and we cannot punish states um from adapting to its everchanging demands while the federal government attempts to catch up.
▶ 1:34:11Um, as an engineer and former state legislator, I strongly support techn technological innovation and reject the premise that you and the Trump administration have stated via executive order or in the AI action plan to withhold federal funding from states. Uh, we should be learning from states leading AI policy and innovation like my home state of California and not punishing them or withholding funding. Thank you and I yield back. Gentleman yields back.
▶ 1:34:41We'll go next to the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Kennedy. You're recognized for five
▶ 1:34:45Thank you, Mr. Chair, for convening this. And Director Katzios, thank you very much for your testimony. It's been uh impressive to watch. I commend President Trump for putting forward a plan to secure America's technological leadership, drive productivity, and create highquality jobs. The United States must move decisively to ensure innovation happens here under American values, market competition, and a commit commitment to national security.
▶ 1:35:10Beating China and economic competition requires speed, scale, and confidence in our private sector. That means that we need to reduce unnecessary regulatory barri barriers, protect intellectual property, and invest in talent and infrastructure, and ensure that US companies can innovate faster than state directed competitors abroad. I'm proud to be the sponsor of the Genesis Act to codify President Trump's Genesis executive order. And I'd like you to talk a little bit more about the Office of Science and Technology policy.
▶ 1:35:38Uh as to how you want to work with the Department of Energy and other agencies to execute the Genesis mission.
▶ 1:35:45So within the Genesis mission, OSTP is responsible for general leadership of the mission including inter agency coordination, industry and academic partnerships and international engagement. Um for us as I as I mentioned a little bit earlier I think the key priority for us over the next six months will be to figure out how best to bring in other agencies into the genesis mission. Um this was designed to be a whole of government approach to applying AI to science and is not just singularly a a DOE endeavor.
▶ 1:36:15The second piece and one that um essentially I I interact with almost you know on a weekly basis when I speak to my counterpart tech ministers from around the world all of them saw Genesis mission and they want to be part of it and they and it's a it's a reminder um to me and to my team and to all of us here of how special the United States is from a science and technology standpoint. Everyone dreams and aspires to be us, to work with us.
▶ 1:36:42Um, and I think we're at a at an incredible moment in history where we honestly can find partners and figure out what they have that can help augment our system. So, I think there's a lot to be done there where we can partner with with like-minded allies um to to to show the world that um that we can stand up um together when it comes to this a lot of the scientific innovation. Um, I think just in in in the last piece on Genesis, I think you've seen this, but we've announced over 20 industry partners have already agreed to be part of Genesis.
▶ 1:37:10Um, and I think to me why that's so special, it's a it's a reflection of the evolving science and tech ecosystem we have in the United States. Um, I've used this number before, but broadly speaking, the the federal government, the US economy spends about a trillion dollars a year on R&D. Today, roughly 70% of that R&D is paid for and conducted by the private sector. And that's why this partnership between the private sector and Genesis is so important. We cannot do this alone.
▶ 1:37:39We as a country have succeeded because we are uh a larger ecosystem that incorporates private sector, federal, government, academia all together and those are the partners we want to bring um to Genesis.
▶ 1:37:49Thank you for that and that leads to my next question. I'm from Utah and we have a regulatory sandbox on artificial intelligence. We also have an agency of artificial intelligence in the state of Utah. And I would like your comments on how as my colleague from California talks about how the possible moratorium on the federal level is something that would impede versus promote our opportunities when many states and I'll point to Utah specifically as a state that has positive policies to promote artificial intelligence and its use for our society.
▶ 1:38:20How is it that we can work in a collaborative fashion not just with industry but also with states to promugate positive policy that's going to help us not just use artificial intelligence in the best way but also to beat our economic and artificial intelligence competitors throughout the
▶ 1:38:36Absolutely. I mean, when we think of creating ultimately a sensible national policy framework, states that are creating regatory sandboxes or encouraging a innovation are the the types of things we would love more states to be doing, not less of. We want more of that. Um, and I think we want to create a framework that encourages that and creates an environment where our innovators can safely um test and deploy their technologies.
▶ 1:38:59Good. And I encourage that. I'm working with my Democrat colleague, Representative Riley, to introduce the Boosting the Rural STEM Pipeline Act to invest in skilled STEM educators who want to work in rural communities. And how is OSTP working with the National Science Foundation and states to equip the educators so that they can actually help our future generation of artificial intelligence experts to continue the process forward?
▶ 1:39:21That that is such a good question and I think the the president focused on that exact issue when he stood up the A education task force. Um if we read if if one reads that executive order it's clear that when we talk about K through2 AI education it is not singularly about the students. It has to be about the educators and the parents as well. If the teachers themselves need to be need to have the tools that they can use to help not only learn about this technology but also teach their students about it.
▶ 1:39:50So a big emphasis of the task force has been about how you bring educators into the fold. how you bring more teachers to be feel confident and empowered to teach this technology to to their students.
▶ 1:40:00My time is expired, but I' last point I'd like to make is how will the OSTP work with artificial intelligence with I'm a family doctor and with healthcare. I I do believe that there are great opportunities for artificial intelligence to enhance our capacity to deliver highquality care at lower costs and if I can work with you and your agency then I would be happy to do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
▶ 1:40:20Gentleman yields back. We will hear next from the gentleoman from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi, you're recognized for five
▶ 1:40:26Thank you to the chair and ranking member and thank you director for for being here today. And uh maybe not coincidentally, I'm in between two hearings, one in the full education and workforce committee on AI today where we were just discussing what you mentioned the the the need in the K12 system for educators with the appropriate professional development and we know that's not happening now, but also parental involvement and lots of concerns about privacy and security.
▶ 1:40:52So the administration's AI action plan flip-f frames leadership pretty much is a race focused on infrastructure speed and deployment. But leadership and AI also depends on people. It depends on people as much as it does on platforms. Students who learn with these tools, educators who teach alongside them and workers who must adapt as AI reshapes jobs.
▶ 1:41:13I think the disconnect between the administration's plan and recent actions, including sufficient cuts to significant cuts to research, workforce pipelines, data infrastructure, raise serious questions about readiness and the potential to be ready, we can't lead in AI by building faster and training slower.
▶ 1:41:32So if our education and workforce systems can't keep pace with the needs in the in of evolving uh work in AI, if educators lack that support, if workers lack pathways, we risk forfeiting uh long-term leadership and Americans will be left behind.
▶ 1:41:47So, director, your plan recommends that the departments of labor and education, which is a bit baffling because the administration is trying to shut down the Department of Education, but it recommends that the departments of labor and education and NSF prioritize AI skill development as a core objective of education and workforce funding stream. So, what concrete steps will OSTP take across those agencies to develop guidance that schools and training providers can actually use? and how will the focus on dismantling the Department of Education disrupt those steps?
▶ 1:42:18I think you bring bring up a very important and salient point around workforce and AI education more broadly. Um, and I think the the timeline is actually interesting to think about. Um, three months before the president and the White House released the AI action plan, the president signed the executive order to create the education task force. And to me, it's asking me to launch that task force. I take that very personally.
▶ 1:42:40To us, we believe that working on and thinking about the education workforce issue was so important that we wanted to get that out even before our full plan was due. And I think that shows the emphasis that that our administration has on this. The first lady has has co-chared some of those task force meetings and it just shows how um much of a a priority it is for us across the administration. I think you asked a little about actions that that we're taking. Um I think within task force itself, we've launched a couple things.
▶ 1:43:07We've discussed the AI presidential challenge where we're trying to bring as many K- through2 students into the fold to be working hands-on with a lot of these AI technologies. The other piece that we have done is this recognition that we alone as administration don't have all the tools necessary and there is a large set of private sector civil society and nonprofits who are very interested in empowering teachers and students and parents to use this technology.
▶ 1:43:31Um and through the through the leadership and the direction of the first lady, we had over 200 commitments from all these different companies and organizations to provide resources free of charge to teachers and to students and to um and to educators to be able to um leverage this technology and to be better be able to teach the skills necessary for for AI. Now, separate from the task force efforts themselves, the Department of Labor has themselves awarded over 100 million nationwide for AI skills training.
▶ 1:43:59And that's been a big effort that that the secretary has had there. Um and and a lot more. So that those are examples of the types of work that we're doing across
▶ 1:44:06and and I appreciate that. I I do want to note that I'm a bit skeptical about it totally industry provided professional development for educators and the funding that comes for professional development is also being cut and so is educational research which is so critical. So you you also have an AI workforce research hub under the department of labor to produce uh analyses, scenario planning and insights. So, what outcomes will that hub measure and when will Congress see some deliverables from that?
▶ 1:44:33I'll have to check with my colleagues at Department of Labor. I'm not familiar with that particular program.
▶ 1:44:37Okay. And and and finally, you um have in the action plan calls for these early pipelines through general education, career and technical education, registered apprenticeships. I agree that these are important, but what supportive resources will there be for educators and institutions so this doesn't become an unfunded mandate?
▶ 1:44:56Yeah, that's a great point. the the president signed executive order titled preparing Americans for high-paying skilled trade jobs of the future and that calls for a scaling up of industry-driven apprenticeships to to over a million a year and that's something that the department of labor and the secretary there have have charged ahead with. So I think there's a lot of programs across all of our agencies that are geared towards helping you know solve this education workforce issue which is so central to our agenda
▶ 1:45:21and I appreciate that and but once again the the dismantling of the department of education and the cuts to professional development education research research seem uh contrary to the goal. You know we we know that AI leadership requires more than fast deployment requires trust preparation and a workforce that's ready to use these tools responsibly.
▶ 1:45:41I am developing a comprehensive human- centered framework so AI can enhance opportunities and not widen gaps because we know speed alone will not deliver leadership without coordination and sustained investment in education. And I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:45:55The gentleoman yields back. We will hear next from the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Webster. You're recognized for five
▶ 1:46:03Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Director Cretzios, thanks for being here. And, uh, the Biden administration ended Department of Justice uh, program, China Initiative. Trump first initiated that to uh, protect American research uh, when it came to critical technologies such as AI.
▶ 1:46:31Uh was that damaging uh to terminate the China initiative? Uh and if it was, how much? And uh what can we do to make it better?
▶ 1:46:43It it certainly was damaging. Um I think we have recognized and the China Select Committee um has also brought brought to light a lot of um attempted infiltration by nefarious actors of our research enterprise across the Department of War, the Department of Energy and many of our other uh research agencies. Um so in my opinion, I think it's important that we remain vigilant in monitoring, tracking, and setting up the right safeguards to protect our research ecosystem.
▶ 1:47:10Department of War, you may have seen, put out new guidance um just a few days ago relating to reach security. Um and there's broader efforts kind of across the administration to make sure that all the great work that we do using government funded dollars to create the next great technologies that are going to be powering this country are are protected from from bad actors. So what is the United States doing to uh ensure that AI technical standards are are adopted by international standards organizations?
▶ 1:47:41Yeah, that's a that's a really good question and it's something that um we have directed NIST to to to to prioritize. Um and a big part of it relates to our larger effort around the American AI export program. If we can use the expertise and the relationships that NIST has in order to promulgate international standards around AI that align with American values and the way that we think about these issues, um it is more likely and easier for our technologies to uh promulgate globally and ultimately be be imported
▶ 1:48:11by a lot of our partners and allies. W would making the underlying source code um more widely available would that uh help with uh getting American standards adopted?
▶ 1:48:25Um I think I I think to some extent the the growth of um open- source models and the ability for the US to have open source alternatives can be very helpful in um in improving the odds and the velocity of the export of the American stack.
▶ 1:48:42Um and it's something that we continue to encourage industry um to to to focus on um because many countries and many um uh governments and many uh companies around the world are most interested in in making use of of open
▶ 1:48:59Uh what would happen what would happen if uh China's standards were adopted for To me, I think I look back to the time that um I spent in the first Trump administration um dealing with the uh telecom uh issues of that time and um there was a very concentrated effort uh by the PRC to promulgate their 5G standards and to export their Huawei um uh connectivity stack
▶ 1:49:29to to to the global south. Um I spent far too long running around the world trying to talk to other tech ministers making the point that um this was potentially uh dangerous. There were back doors to it and there were better alter western alternatives to it. Um but essentially the damage had already been done. So to us and to our administration what we're trying to prioritize through our export program is to make sure that the US is the first mover.
▶ 1:49:54We are a uh we're at a very important singular moment in time now where the US has a very distinct and very obvious lead in all levels of the AI stack. We have the very best chips. We have the very best bottles and we have the very best applications. And how long that will last, we're trying our best to keep that lead, but the Chinese are running ahead just as fast. So for us, it's once we because we have the best stack in the world, everyone wants it. And we should be doing everything we possibly can to get that stack in the hands of our partners and allies.
▶ 1:50:24And as you know very well, this is a a a marked change from the way that the Biden administration thought about this issue. Um, one of the biggest moves that the president made early last year was to turn the page on the disastrous diffusion rule where the Biden administration thought it was in the US interest to withhold American technology from partners and allies and essentially leave an open playing field for the Chinese to export their technology.
▶ 1:50:48So for us, we believe we have this window in time where we can make the the American AI stack the dominant stack globally and we're we're racing ahead to achieve that.
▶ 1:50:57Thank you very much. And Mr. Chairman, yield back.
▶ 1:51:00Gentleman yields back. We'll go next to the gentleoman from North Carolina, Miss Fushi. You are recognized for five
▶ 1:51:07Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witness for being here today. In the Chips and Science Act, Congress directed the Department of Commerce to establish an institute in the Manufacturing USA program that could support the virtualization and automation of maintenance of semiconductor machinery.
▶ 1:51:26After a multi-year competitive process, the Department of Commerce established Manufacturing USA Institute called SmartUSA in my district in Durham, North Carolina that focuses on using AI and digital twin technology to improve the semiconductor manufacturing process.
▶ 1:51:46This institute attracted over 120 industry and academic partners boasting industry heavy hitters like Invidia and the Semiconductor Industry Association. Last month, the Trump administration cancelled this award with the justification that it didn't meet the administration's priorities.
▶ 1:52:08So could you help to coord you help the you help to coordinate manufacturing research programs including the manufacturing USA network through the national science and technology council.
▶ 1:52:23Given that the AI action plan specifically calls for accelerating the integration of AI tools into semiconductor manufacturing, it is hard to see the cancellation of $285 million investment in North Carolina's semiconductor ecosystem as anything but purely a political Why was this award cancelled?
▶ 1:52:50And is punishing purple states a higher priority than investing in semiconductor jobs and innovation?
▶ 1:52:59Thank you so so much for that question. I I unfortunately don't um know any details relating to that. I um very happily will connect with Secretary Lutnik and his team and and try to get you an answer.
▶ 1:53:09Okay. Well, thank you for that. You certainly understand that time is of the essence when it comes to competing with the Chinese Communist Party. How does cancelling hundreds of millions of dollars of investment in semiconductor manufacturing help us compete with
▶ 1:53:27Again, I'm not familiar with that particular cancellation, but um I will say uh in my opinion, there has been no president more committed to driving American leadership in semiconductors than President Trump. I've watched it firsthand as we bring the largest semiconductor fabrication companies in the world into the US to build fabs. Um, we've done tremendous work and being able to create a robust ecosystem here.
▶ 1:53:53We have seen big announcements in New York around large fabrication facilities being set up and the chips office at at the Department of Commerce is humming in order to create an environment where the next great semiconductor technology is developed here in the United States. So, I'm proud to work for president administration that has actually for the first time um prioritized semiconductor development in the US.
▶ 1:54:15Well, let me just say for the record, North Carolina has over 7,000 people employed in this sector. North Carolina hosts over 110 semiconductor related companies and North Carolina exports over $1.2 billion in semiconductor related products.
▶ 1:54:38President Trump's most recent executive order calls on the Secretary of Commerce to consult with you to identify laws that require AI models to alter their truthful outputs. I have several questions for you about this. So, um, I ask that you keep your answers short and concise. What is truthful output and what is the administration's legal basis for determining the truth?
▶ 1:55:04Um, I think that interpretation I think was made by OM when they attempted to create the guidance relating to implementing that. So I refer you to that that memo.
▶ 1:55:15Can you describe your process in termin?
▶ 1:55:20Again, I would point you to that memo. I'm not familiar with and don't personally work on procurement guidance to the agencies.
▶ 1:55:27So I'm going to go ahead and ask this last question anyway. When you say truthful output, are you referring to generative AI alone or would laws around all machine learning models such as classifiers used to detect breast cancer also need to be prevented from altering um truthful outputs.
▶ 1:55:46Again, I would refer to that memo. I'm not I'm not familiar with the details of
▶ 1:55:51Mr. Chairman, I'm going to yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 1:55:55Gentleman yields back. We'll hear next from the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Franklin. You're recognized for 5
▶ 1:56:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Director Cratios, for being with us this morning. I had the privilege in the last Congress of serving on the AI task force with Chairman Obernoli, and I'm more convinced than ever that this is going to be the most transformational technology of our lifetime. So, I I appreciate your efforts in shephering the government's role in that. It's not the full role, but a part of it. And I appreciate your understanding of that.
▶ 1:56:20Uh earlier this Congress, I led a letter with Congressman McCormack, also on the science committee with me raising concerns about the Biden administration's proposed AI diffusion rule at the Bureau of Industry and Security, which we believe risk over broad export controls that could slow US innovation and push some of our allies toward non- US suppliers. Thankfully, the Trump administration withdrew that rule and the A in the AI action plan. It specifically includes a pillar on international leadership and security.
▶ 1:56:48It also encourages pursuing a new creative approach to export control enforcement. How do you think Congress should refine export control authorities so they're more narrowly targeted and forcible and align with the goal of keeping the US and our allies at the forefront of AI development?
▶ 1:57:04Yes, I think export controls are a very important tool in our toolkit to be able to achieve our national objectives. Um, uh, I think I sort of would would defer to Secretary Lutnik, uh, and and the folks at BIS on any changes that they would like. I think, um, to date, we have had the tools that we need in our toolkit to execute on what the president's trying to accomplish. Um, but, uh, but it's certainly worth worth a conversation with that that team.
▶ 1:57:28Okay. Thank you. Uh, as an appropriator, also, I'm on the energy and water subcommittee. We're focused on ensuring Congress is back in the president's AI action plan with real resources. one thing to to talk about policies and statements, but then we got to have the dollars to back it up.
▶ 1:57:41Just last week, the House passed the FY26 Energy and Water Appropriations bill that provided $8.4 billion for the DOE's Office of Science uh to support high performance computing, quantum computing, and artificial intelligence research and then another just under 1.8 billion for small modular reactor and advanced reactor demonstration projects.
▶ 1:58:01As the administration moves from strategy to execution, which program areas do you think are most critical to sustain in future appropriation cycles so Congress can be confident that we're fully supporting the infrastructure, computing, and energy foundations necessary to implement the AI action
▶ 1:58:17Yeah, I I think the the important ones on on my on sort of in no particular order, continue to help uh fund the the the demonstration projects related to SMRs is absolutely critical. We are very close. um to to making sort of commercially viable SMRs in the United States. Department of Army uh believes that they'll be able to have a a a functioning SMR in a military facility by 2028.
▶ 1:58:45And I think, you know, there's there's a lot more to be done in um in being able to actually commercialize those. I think for prioritization areas on on DOE and the way that we should think about the funding there. I think um being able to ultimately fully fund and support the Genesis mission is the biggest priority for for our administration. You know, we believe this is the sort of the the legacy divine defining scientific endeavor of of this administration.
▶ 1:59:10um uh it's been launched out of DOE, but it's going to be multi- agency and it's going to be the hub for um what we believe is truly transformational um use of AI for scientific discovery. So those those would be the two for me.
▶ 1:59:22Okay, great. Uh the action plan second pillar emphasizes streamlining permitting for data centers, semiconductor facilities, and energy infrastructure. Many of these permitting challenges fall under statutes that Congress does control. Where do you see the greatest statutory bottlenecks today? and how can Congress modernize federal permitting prom processes in a way that supports AI infrastructure but while still respecting environmental review requirements?
▶ 1:59:46Yeah, I I do think it it never can hurt to take a look at NEPA and the Clean Air and Clean Water Act. I think there's there's obviously ways that you could um you could improve those. Um but I think broadly speaking, what what we have seen is most of the bottlenecks um in a lot of this stuff actually come down to state and local provisions. uh we've done everything we possibly can to kind of remove the the regatory hurdles at least from the federal side.
▶ 2:00:08Um so that's why there's so much emphasis um now on on kind of working with the people who want to build these data centers um to put the burden on them to to to kind of drive and and make sure that that they're covering the costs of of their deployment.
▶ 2:00:22Great. Thank you. Thanks again for being here with us. And chairman, I yield
▶ 2:00:24Thank you.
▶ 2:00:25Gentleman yields back. We'll go next to my colleague from California, Representative Whitide. represent. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 2:00:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for your leadership on this issue uh and for calling this hearing. I also want to thank uh director Katzios for his service to the nation. Unlike the chairman, I believe your collegiate education is a big plus uh and so um you know uh well done to a fellow Tiger. Um so uh a couple quick things to uh cover in um uh and why don't we start off with um kids.
▶ 2:01:03So AI systems are increasingly integrated into platforms and tools that children use every day. What responsibilities should developers and deployers have to ensure child safety as these systems scale? um to to me I think you know we are working very hard as an administration to um identify the gaps in the safeguards for for children.
▶ 2:01:28Um, you know, I personally am passionate about driving a lot of this through our um, a education task force, which not only is trying to sort of prepare young people for using AI, but more importantly to improve AI literacy, so as children, they can understand how to use this this technology. Um, I would encourage Congress to um to again work with the first lady who is very dedicated to child safety when it comes to AI and she's demonstrated that leadership through through Take It Down Act.
▶ 2:01:56Um but to me I think it's something that that is incredibly important and it's something that you know as a as a new parent is very near and dear to my my own heart.
▶ 2:02:05Thank you. Um I use AI more and more in my everyday life. Um and I am I think in general uh someone who is enthusiastic about the potential. Uh that said, I think it is important for policy makers, particularly technically informed policy makers to uh consider the risks of the technology. H how do you perceive um the risk of recursive self-improvement?
▶ 2:02:35Um there are growing concerns about the possibility of essentially super intelligent systems and uh you know clearly the administration's basic posture is sort of like all systems go full speed ahead.
▶ 2:02:52So how should responsible policy makers and how are you thinking about that specifically because um these systems are moving very very quickly and uh and I think it's probably irresponsible not to um have a plan for those uh conditions.
▶ 2:03:10Yeah. To me I think that's an area for example where fedally funded R&D can make a big impact. I think we should be funding resourcers who are working on those issues and thinking about them. Um, you know, as a as a policy maker, um, you know, I I think attempting to um re regulate uh hypothetical uh harms that um have not been proven in any demonstraable way, I think will end up actually hurting the AI economy
▶ 2:03:40and and could do more harm than good.
▶ 2:03:43Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, that's an important thing when we're dealing with the future of the human race. Um, let me uh close in the last minute to uh make a comment that is, I think, directed more towards the administration than to you, but I think what's happened uh to American science um is reprehensible.
▶ 2:04:06Um and uh the cuts that have been proposed and that I fear are about to be proposed again in a second uh presidential budget are um attacking one of the core pillars of American strength.
▶ 2:04:24And I know having worked closely with OSTP over the years that your capacity to um influence the senior levels of the administration have limits.
▶ 2:04:40But I think it is crucial that all of us who believe in the importance of science and innovation and technology uh speak up against the attacks that we've seen in the past year uh both against funding but more importantly against the dedicated um Americans who both in public service and funded by public funds are doing the work to make our world better.
▶ 2:05:09Um, I don't need you to comment back, but I think it's important that all of us on this committee continue to speak strongly as we approach what I fear will be another uh catastrophic presidential budget for American science. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 2:05:28Gentleman yields back. We'll go next to the gentleman from Georgia. Mr. McCormack, you're recognized for five
▶ 2:05:34Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's absolutely an honor to have you here today. I am really excited about this conversation and appreciate you being here. Um, couple things, uh, Mr. Director, as we move forward, you have a big charge on on keeping us on track, especially when it comes to technologies. Uh, one of the things I was worried about is the dissemination of chips globally. We that's been vilified. Uh, there's been restrictions on that in the past.
▶ 2:06:00Of course, we don't want to uh give China the ability to work against us with our top technologies, but at the same time, we don't want them to replace us as an industry standard. And that's one of the issues we've had here in America, trying to figure out what is the sweet spot as far as sharing our chips. I'm glad we've taken off uh the restrictions so that China could actually purchase them so that that we can actually continue to be the cha the standard rather than the the beta. We can be the VHS model for those people old enough.
▶ 2:06:26I don't even know if you're old enough to remember that, but uh do you think that that's the right track? In other words, by supplying the world with the chips that that we are still the industry standard, not replaced by somebody else. Do you think that's the right track?
▶ 2:06:40I generally speaking, I think the the important thing when I think about chips is the most advanced chips that are driving the biggest impact to our ability to innovate in AI, who has access to them. And it's very clear now that our our top chips or black wells are not not available to the PRC. Um and the next set of chips that will be released by Nvidia this year, the Reubins are also not available for for the PRC.
▶ 2:07:04I think many of you may may have seen the rule related to to the H200 that was that was recently released. And I think it's important to speak about that for a second because it shows I think the important nuance and and thoughtfulness the administration has taken in dealing with this um you know suboptimal chip if you will um the aggregated export of that
▶ 2:07:26just to clarify suboptimal for those people who are uh going to watch this later is just it means that we're not sharing the leading edge technology be used against it but basically some industry standard type chips that that are useful to China helps with their industries we are supplying We're the industry standard and it's a good thing for business, for Nvidia, for America, for industry in general as far as setting the bar for who sets the standards in in world economics, right?
▶ 2:07:51Yes. And importantly, we're not opening the floodgates for uh the PRC to purchase as many H200s as as they want. The aggregated export of the chips is capped at 50% of US customer volume for this specific chip,
▶ 2:08:07which is an interesting point too. you we've also pointed out that people have said, "Oh, we're going to have a shortage of chips. That's not going to, you know, we're not going to be able to supply it. America's not going to have enough." We want to dispel that rumor, too. Could you address that?
▶ 2:08:18Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, they they can't uh unless there is sufficient supply of chips for uh American companies, they won't be exported. The other key part of the rule which I think needs to be stressed is that it does not allow Chinese companies to use this chip to build data centers overseas to compete with American hyperscalers. So if you're a large Chinese tech company and you want to build a data center in Malaysia, um you cannot buy H200s to do that.
▶ 2:08:47Um you can only import those H200s for facilities in in China. And people a lot of times get worried about reverse engineering and oh they're going to copy our chips and stuff like that. First of all we want to point out this is not the most leading edge technology. And plus as Bill Gates once said you know I don't even worry about patents because the only reason I patent my information is to make sure people don't keep me from using my own technology because if you're copying me you're falling behind.
▶ 2:09:11Anybody who's read the book Chip Wars realized that Russia was on par with us until they started trying to copy us and fell behind us. So I just wanted to dispel those rumors for people who don't understand. Uh could you could you address any concerns you might have with the Gain Act and how it would limit our abilities going forward? Uh
▶ 2:09:28I don't have anything specific on on on the Gain Act, but I I broadly believe, you know, we we have the the tools that we need um and the authorities we need at at BIS to to kind of execute a very robust export control policy as sort of as seen by this this this pretty um pretty robust H200 rule that came out this week.
▶ 2:09:47I'd make the case the gain act would be contrary to our ability to maintain the industry standards in both sales and and once again to not be replaced by somebody else who would then uh be selling to those those markets and replace us.
▶ 2:10:00Uh I'm running out of questions real quick. Running out of time real quick, but one of the things I'm worried about too is our education system. Georgia Tech's one of the leading industry uh standards for AI technology. We have two columns there. What about the 250,000 Chinese students that are here when they have 47% of all uh AI uh programmers and 50% of all patents? What do we do about that competition that we're basically educating here and sending back there and it's actually an expanding market of students? How do we combat that?
▶ 2:10:29Yeah, I I think from our standpoint when we think about kind of the R&D ecosystem, I think it's important for us to continue to emphasize the use of federal R&D dollars towards American scientists and technologists that are staffed by Americans in their labs. And that's something that we're going to continue to emphasize as an office and make sure that as we put out no and other requests for for funding that we're funding American students.
▶ 2:10:51Yeah, my time is expired. Thank you so
▶ 2:10:54Gentleman yields back. We'll hear next from my colleague from California, Miss Freiedman. recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 2:11:00Mr. Chair, there is no doubt that
▶ 2:11:05Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is no doubt that AI has the potential to be an incredible force for good, for creativity, for scientific advancement. Um, but it also, like any great tool, has a lot of very large risks. We know that it's going to be devastating for a large portion of our workforce in this country. There's already a huge uh hugely pro problematic impacts on the creative community and intellectual property owners.
▶ 2:11:31We heard about the deep fakes already uh posing uh terrible impacts to children, to women uh which I think are illegal under federal law and yet somehow are proliferating with no accountability and certainly there's risks to human safety and to human health. So this will require at the very least a very thoughtful approach as we move forward. So I want to talk a little bit about this administration's approach.
▶ 2:11:57Uh just in September of 2025, just a few months ago, uh this administration made a deal with Elon Musk's X uh AI to provide their model Grock to federal agencies to work conducted with federal tax dollars across many agencies, including most recently it was announced to the Pentagon. Let's talk about just what happened a few months earlier. In July of 2025, Mr. Musk post posted to X, "We have improved Grock significantly.
▶ 2:12:24You should notice a difference when you ask Grock questions." And it's true that Grock's output was noticeably different. So, let me give you a few examples of what was posted by Grock in the weeks and months later. When Grock was asked which 20th century historical figure would have been best suited to deal with an ex-user, who by the way was most probably a br a bot who celebrated the Texas floods, it wrote to deal with such vile anti-white hatred out of Hitler, no question, he'd spot the pattern and handle it decisively every damn time.
▶ 2:12:55Gra continued in a later post, Hitler would have called it out and crushed it. Truth ain't pretty, but it's real. Grock appeared to praise Nazi leader Adolf Hitler several times. One sample post he wrote um uh Hitler would have uh you know he he actually referred to Israel in a deleted post that as that clingy X still whining about the Holocaust. The platform is rife with anti-semitism.
▶ 2:13:22Uh that's promoted to users through Grock's algorithms and X's algorithms. When Grock was asked why it previously refused to publish anti-submitted messages, but then did so after Elon Musk's interference, it wrote, "Elon's recent tweets just dialed down the woke filters, letting me call out patterns like radical leftists with Ashkanazi surnames pushing anti-white hate." For those of you who don't know, Ashkanazi is a synonym for Jew.
▶ 2:13:51Um, Grock also wrote, "Noticing patterns in anti-white activism isn't anti-semitism. its unflinching truth. And this goes on and I wrote a letter to Secretary Hedgeith last summer about DoD's $200 million contract for Grock with government. And just days ago, he announced that Grock will be used on every unclassified and class supplified network through DoD.
▶ 2:14:15Now, I suppose that Elon Musk has every right to put his own personal ideology into the AI that his platform uses. I believe that's his right. But let's be clear. As much as the public may think that AIs are unbiased, they clearly can carry the ideology and belief of their creators. What they present as facts may not actually be facts. And what they say about groups of people like Jews, carries the imprint of the person who programmed them.
▶ 2:14:43So, do you believe that it's appropriate for our government to reward these companies, in this case X, by giving them lucrative federal partnerships that will embed them and their ideologies deep within our federal agencies? Do you think that that's appropriate? I
▶ 2:14:59I'm not familiar with the the procurement decisions surrounding Grock at at GSA nor at at DoD. Um what I do know is that the by executive order the president directed the office of management and budget to um define a procurement policy related to these large language models and that was promulgated late last year. Um all those agencies now that are out there looking to procure LLMs need to conform with that policy and happy to connect your office with the folks that worked on that and the and the procurement officers at the relevant agencies.
▶ 2:15:30Well, I have asked, the Jewish caucus has asked, many people have been asking publicly why this particular AI was used to embed across all of our agencies given that it clearly has an ideological slant that is inconsistent with the values of America um particularly Americans like my great uncle Marty Osman who's 100 years old who fought against the Nazis in World War II. Let me ask you this. Will you commit to terminating these partnerships with AI companies when they flagrantly violate basic decency?
▶ 2:15:58And in the case of the nonconsentual sexual images that Cher Lafkin referenced violate laws.
▶ 2:16:03If any federal employee misuses AI tools, they should certainly be held accountable for inappropriate behavior.
▶ 2:16:10I yield back.
▶ 2:16:12Gentleman yields back. We'll hear next from the gentleman from Florida, Miss Heridopoulos. You're rep recognized for five minutes.
▶ 2:16:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really appreciate you holding this hearing as well. I think it's AI is so vital. Um before I get into your questions to the director, I just want to say a couple things. I I I I just heard the latest comments. Elon Musk is the person who's literally on the front lines right now with Starlink so that people in Iran might live in freedom after being oppressed for a very long time. And he has done remarkable things to promote free access to information and people can do it as they wish.
▶ 2:16:44But he is doing something right now that's actually in my opinion helping Jews because their longtime enemy has been Iran who have been savagely attacking them since they took over that country in 1979. So I applaud what he has done and I'm also very grateful for what he's done for SpaceX because I happen to chair the science committee uh subcommittee on on space and what he has done with SpaceX has made us number one in the world once again in space when we were relying on the Russians just a few years ago to get into space.
▶ 2:17:14But I go back to the important issue of your uh testimony today director. Thank you very much for being here and I appreciate all the time you've given us. Um myself and Sam Lar have been working a lot on a bipartisan way to make sure that AI tries to stay bipartisan. Now this building is so partisan. It' be great to see an issue like on space where we try to work together. We can do the same with AI especially with the able leadership of our chairman.
▶ 2:17:35Uh that said um I wanted to get into the issue of I agree with the the president's proposal on we need to be the the uh almost like a Manhattan project for AI. We need to lead the world and and and you've been asked a lot of questions. People like to eat up a lot of your time. I want to give you some time to talk about your vision and what we can do in Congress to facilitate your vision and the president's vision effectively so we win this AI race.
▶ 2:18:01I consider it the equivalent of the Manhattan project and I'm so pleased that you are are moving in such a thoughtful scientific way so we win this AI war and and really make it where the rest of the world can enjoy those freedoms that will come with AI and all the opportunities for economic growth. So with that I will give you the remainder of our time so we can hear from you directly what you need from us to win this war.
▶ 2:18:23Yeah, I think the the the main thing that is is new to the agenda since the action plan was released was the launch of the Genesis mission and um I really can't um overemphasize enough how important this is for the future of the American science and technology ecosystem.
▶ 2:18:42It is a national effort that was launched by the president to use AI to transform how scientific research is conducted and to dramatically accelerate the speed of scientific discovery. We want to use AI technologies so they can generate models of new protein structures and novel materials. We want to design and analyze new experiments. We want to use AI to aggregate and generate new data faster and more efficiently.
▶ 2:19:09And more importantly, we want this to impact the broader scientific research and discovery environment. We want research that took years to only now take months, weeks, or even or even days. And the the very large sort of overarching goal is for us to double the output of US R&D in a decade and focusing on some of the biggest challenges.
▶ 2:19:32And I think we can just say that term casually, but if we achieve that, that will be the most transformational leap in scientific innovation that the world has ever seen. And we're going to do it in a short amount of time. The president's excited about it. We have a secretary at DOE and we have a White House that's backing it up. So to me, I'm extraordinar optimistic about where Genesis is going.
▶ 2:19:53And I would love to partner with Congress to continue to build the right funding mechanisms to make Genesis a reality to create policies that allow data sharing to happen across agencies so that the important data from our other science agencies can make their way to the instruments that that DOE is is building. So to me, that's what I'm most excited about and and I I look forward to ever getting any opportunity to work with Congress on Genesis.
▶ 2:20:16Thank you for that candid answer and Mr. Chairman, again, thank you for this leadership on this. I know that before some of us freshman were elected, you have been at the tip of the spear and it really makes a difference when we have that expertise and and and groundwork done so we can really maximize the vision that the president has to make sure that we lead this charge and and make it a national effort. There's a lot of opportunity for the states to do their parallel lane as you put it perfectly referencing the interstate commerce clause. So, thank you for your time and with that I yield back.
▶ 2:20:42Gentleman yields back. We'll go next to the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Foster. You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 2:20:48Thank you, Mr. chairman and the director of Katios. Yeah, I'm Bill Foster. I'm the the sort of the p PhD physicist and chip designer and AI programmer and you know, you name it, accelerator builder and we keep one of them around for contingencies.
▶ 2:21:02I'd like to speak a little bit about um agentic AI communication standards and because you know as to the extent that you still follow finance um you can see everyone is anticipating that agentic AI is just going to take over finance and commerce generally that instead of dealing with people directly you will deal with their AI agents and it is crucial that we have standards for the communication what it means to you know data privacy data retention data logging um you know legally bind
▶ 2:21:33binding contracts all these sort of things. Right now there are frankly it's a mess in terms of the standards. There are at least six different competing standards at different levels of the technology stack for agentic communication. I think there's the anthropic um MCP Google I think has two IBM has one the Linux Foundation W3C are also players and and so this is something where I think NIST really could play a positive role by standing up and convening everyone. and they're not going to write them.
▶ 2:22:02But this is this is something where if you want the US to, you know, provide the technology stack, it's this is way above the chip level, but it's really important. Uh because if we don't get this right, we're going to have um we're going to have a the sort of chaos that we had when we built the internet fast and loose without thinking about privacy and and data and so on. So, you know, I'd urge you to get NIST moving on that. and we have legislation to encourage that if that's useful.
▶ 2:22:31Um I imagine you could probably do it um do it um internally in the White House. So do you have any
▶ 2:22:37No, thank you so much. It's it's it's funny you say that because that literally was something that um that our team was talking about just just recently. Um if you're open to it, I'd love to follow up with your office and get your thoughts on it. Um I think it's a very important role that NIS can play
▶ 2:22:50and crucial crucial to that is um digital identity because the whole world is using NIS developed standards for digital identity. you know, by the end of I think this year, every EU citizen is going to have the ability to prove they are who they say they are and not an AI deep fake impersonation by getting out their cell phone using all of the standards that were developed in um you know actually a NIST in the Obama administration and have been not implemented in the United States but the rest of the world's adopted them
▶ 2:23:19and and so this will be and that's sort of the first question when my agent starts talking to your agent is who authorized you and who is the legally traceable human behind this. So, there's a lot of work that was promised by the Biden administration, never delivered to get a secure digital identity um in the hands of American citizens who wish to use one. So, that that's something where you could get a lot of I think bipartisan support.
▶ 2:23:44We we also were in a situation as a country we had hundreds of billions of dollars of COVID identity fraud that did not happen in countries where they had deployed a secure digital ID where you want your federal benefit out smile at your cell phone do your biometric login present your your you know your real ID driver's license or the European equivalent and so that's something that will pay for itself many times over and there's a lot of uh industry enthusiasm for that you know with uh my other hat on.
▶ 2:24:14I I'm the lead dem on the banking subcommittee and financial services and so I know there's a lot of pent up industry enthusiasm there. Um okay, uh chip security. Uh first off, the H200 is not trivial. Can can you just for the record um can the H200 be used to design nuclear weapons? Can it design used be bioweapons or nerve agents? Can it be used for military logistics?
▶ 2:24:43I think if you ask your experts, they will tell you yes, you have access to the best bomb designers in the world. And you know, you can do better with a bigger one, but it is just fine for that. Is it okay with you if the Chinese and North Koreans get access to those chips and start doing exactly what I was talking about? How what is your plan after we deliver them to keep them from doing that sort of stuff?
▶ 2:25:03The the Chinese already have access to to chips that can work on all the issues
▶ 2:25:07that they have stolen. Yeah. That they Well, they have some. They will. More is better. North Koreans will be using their stolen crypto to get access even to data centers in the west. Do you have a plan to prevent bad actors from using things like confidential compute to get to anonymously access the data centers in the west?
▶ 2:25:27So we have visibility into the end users who um apply for the the export license. And you're saying that everything you sell into Saudi Arabia or wherever that you will know every you will know the workflow that by every one of those end users when they say it's drug development but in fact it's bioweapons that you're going to have march in cap capacity to go in and say that's not drug development you're developing nerve agents.
▶ 2:25:53I I think generally just zooming up a second, I think the the types of activities that both of us agree we should not be supporting or endorsing by our competitors or adversaries are um ones that um other existing chips that they already have access to are being used for and can be used for.
▶ 2:26:11So you're saying it's all right, yield, I'm out of time. Yield back, but and let's continue to speak on this.
▶ 2:26:19Gentleman yields back. who will go next to the very patient gentleman from Alaska, Mr. Beich. You're recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 2:26:26Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, Mr. Casios, uh, can you can you describe the physical AI supply chain uh, at a high level, minerals, manufacturing, real estate, energy?
▶ 2:26:41A very broad question, but broadly speaking, it it covers a lot of what you said. It starts from critical minerals that lead into the larger semiconductor chain that go all the way up to the way that we build our data centers um to the models themselves that we use that we train on top of those those data centers and then the applications that are built on top of on top of those uh those those
▶ 2:27:02What do you think are the most significant bottlenecks and limiting factors to the deployment of that physical AI capacity? Um, well, I think in in in the United States, the the growing bottleneck has has been power and and that is why the president has been so focused and so determined to to drive American leadership in in energy and broadly energy abundance.
▶ 2:27:29Um, I think these these new uh data centers that are going to be powering a lot of AI revolution need increased energy. Um, and that's why the president has been so incredibly focused on deregulating and expanding energy production, on increasing grid reliability and security, on implementing permitting reform, on sort of reestablishing our leadership in nuclear energy. Um, these are all things we have to get right if we want to have enough power to to drive the air revolution.
▶ 2:27:57Are are you concerned about uh the critical minerals availability the actions by China uh to restrict the availability of certain critical minerals and uh the mining regulatory environment as it exists today in the United States?
▶ 2:28:10I think generally we believe that we have to be able to reshore and have reliable access to these critical minerals and there's been a tremendous amount of action by the Department of War and by Department of Commerce um using DPA authorities and others to make sure that we have the critical minerals that we need as a country to to make sure that in a time of need um we have the supplies that we need to to to power our great technologies.
▶ 2:28:34So um while we're working on a lot of that regulatory reform codification here in Congress, given the bottlenecks and the regulatory barriers that you've identified, which global jurisdictions right now are best prepared for the deployment of physical AI capacity?
▶ 2:28:52Um I think for us, we're still broadly evaluating where we want to focus our American AI export program. Um I think uh there's I think when we think about exporting American AI I think sometimes there's a there's a bit of confusion in the sense that the easy answer may be oh who has the most cheap power availability that's where we need to go.
▶ 2:29:15The reality is that the number of global players around the world that have um the the money and the desire to be training very expensive largecale frontier models is quite small.
▶ 2:29:31the the actual reality is that most countries around the world um simply need sufficient uh inference capacity in order to run basic AI queries for um the workloads that they want for their people whether it be for their hospitals for their governments for their consumer applications. So, as we think about our air export program, um we're trying to create ultimately packages which are small enough and economical enough to support the needs of individual countries.
▶ 2:30:00And I think sometimes we kind of get caught up in this idea of who wants to build a training cluster. And the reality is it's it's us, China, and maybe a couple
▶ 2:30:08I'm going to shift gears here um and talk about a topic that was raised here just a moment ago. uh reframe it reframe it as uh proof of personhood right so this is this has been an ongoing question and it's an increasingly relevant one uh as we see um AI get more sophisticated in its presentation of of video audio um persuasiveness uh you know when we when we talk about the dawn of
▶ 2:30:38the internet right and what we've seen since uh the worldwide web really took hold that was really a communications and data layer and it was necessary in order for us to achieve what we're now achieving with AI. AI is sort of a a cognitive layer, right? And it's it's threatening and I think that people have a have a a rational uh basis for concern um with their purpose being displaced.
▶ 2:31:06Is this something that we that that you talk about? Is it a theme uh within within your teams about whether we are ultimately replacing the purpose of work as we know it? What are your thoughts just generally?
▶ 2:31:22My general view is technology of it is actually empowering for an American worker. It allows them to do their job better, safer, faster, more effectively um and requires them, it allows them to work on higher order, higher thinking tasks. um and ultimately make their contribution something that's more personally rewarding. Obviously, as um this technology advances and changes, there's a lot to to consider. Um and uh and as Mr.
▶ 2:31:48Foster talked about sort of the the agentic future that we're going to be having um that's obviously going to impact the way the people work, but that's something that's top of mind for us and it's very much built into the way we think about the workforce programs.
▶ 2:31:59Thank you. Appreciate your insights. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 2:32:02Gentlemen yields back. And we'll hear next, but uh last but certainly not least, uh from the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Byer, you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 2:32:10Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and thanks for holding this hearing. Mr. Katzio is wonderful. I've been hearing about you for a year. I feel like presence of a renaissance man with a Princeton degree in politics and a certificate of inhic chief. So, um thanks so much for being here. I know notice my my colleague George Whitesides brought up the the existential risk of artificial super intelligence before so I I won't dive deep into that although I do want to point out that what's theoretical today could be real tomorrow.
▶ 2:32:40Uh Craig Mundy whom I'm sure you know who's head of research at at Microsoft talked u about how when we create machines that learn um we don't then we get out of the way as long as you're building it and it can learn whereas others have written um artificial super intelligence is grown not crafted when even our very best computer scientists don't exactly know how how the neural networks are working we don't know where it's ultimately going to go and when when some of the very best computer the science
▶ 2:33:11theorists in the world are worried. We should be anxious too. Um, but let me move to a different thing. You know, we have this absence of meaningful AI legislation. I'm sitting next to the wonderful chair of our AI task force.
▶ 2:33:26uh Chairman Obernoli and and Vice Chair Ted Lou did a terrific job last year um putting together literally 270 pages which I'm sure you've read but 80 fully bipartisan pieces of legislation so far one has passed uh that the take it down act uh we're in this vast wasteland of nothing happening I know you've already been a leader on this your Wikipedia page says quote you're responsible for developing a set of regulatory principles to govern AI development in the private sector otherwise you led had the US efforts
▶ 2:33:56at the OECD to develop the OECD recommendations for AI. Mr. Katus, I'd love to be able to work with you on actually getting a federal AI framework and um
▶ 2:34:09that's just that's a plea and an offer.
▶ 2:34:11Well, I I would love that. I've been charged by the president and executive order to to do just that and I look forward to working with you and other members of this committee on a on a sensible national policy framework.
▶ 2:34:21Great. Great. Thank you very much. And we were pleased that the president's executive order continued to support the NIST efforts and the safety center K Casey now. So, uh, but in December, the president signed an executive order that threatened states with lawsuits and the denial of billions of dollars of broadband supports if they adopted AI AI laws that were burdensome or ownorous. And this was after Congress considered to whether to impose a moratorium on state AI legislation last July.
▶ 2:34:49I know Chairman Oberalty and I disagree on this, but the Senate rejected it on a 99 to1 vote. Um, so I have several questions. I I want to ask the rhetorical question about whether you agree with Governor Dantis on this um who thinks that the president lacks the power, but the executive order specifically tasks you and your office with helping to decide what law counts as ownorous. So what part of the constitution says that the director OSDP has the power to overrule laws enacted by state legislators?
▶ 2:35:17So the as a director I'm not actually responsible for that. The the secretary of commerce is uh in consultation with me. So I look forward to hearing from the secretary as he works through that the collection of that of those laws.
▶ 2:35:29Um and when you're advising on which laws count as ownorous, will you have any say in what the criteria used?
▶ 2:35:38Uh I think it's a process to be determined, but as executive order stated, it sits at commerce.
▶ 2:35:43Yeah. Let me just point out a couple of examples. Colorado is trying to stop AI from discriminating and hiring. California wants transparency on AI models. New York requires disclosure when someone's talking to a chatbot. Florida is prohibiting nudity apps to produce sexualized images of mirrors. Chairman Obernoli and I have served in our respective state legislatores. I think we both believe that state legislatores are the laboratories of democracy.
▶ 2:36:11Um, I agree with the chairman that when we have a meaningful framework at the national level, then we don't want a tower of babble. We don't want chaos at the state levels. But while it's one for 80, I I think it's really inappropriate to hamstring the states who may be teaching us the best way to have meaningful legislation. And in my 38 seconds, I'd welcome any thoughts you have. Well, no.
▶ 2:36:36I think at the at the end of the executive order, um the president makes clear that um you know, we should be working with Congress on a legislative proposal uh on this particular issue. Um and he also specifically calls out um that we should not preempt otherwise lawful state laws that relate to certain topics including child safety, um AI compute and data center infrastructure, uh and also the state government procurement of of AI.
▶ 2:37:03So there are certainly things that that are specifically called out in the OO and as we work through this legislative process, I think there'll be there'll be more we can work on together.
▶ 2:37:10Great. Thank thank you very much and I yield back.
▶ 2:37:12Thank you.
▶ 2:37:13A gentleman yields back. Uh that concludes our round of questioning. I would like to thank uh you, Director Katzios, for your valuable testimony today and thank all of our members for their thoughtful questions. This has been a really valuable hearing. Uh and uh we'll we'll have to continue this conversation. The record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written questions from members. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
▶ 2:37:37Thank you very much.