▶ 0:02:33In-house administration will come to order. The title of today's hearing is making elections great again. How do we start? Trust and integrity in federal elections. I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the chair may declare recess at any time. Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain open for five legislative days, so members may submit any materials they wish to be included therein. Thank you.
▶ 0:02:59Ranking member, members of the committee and our witnesses for participating in our hearing today. I'll now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement. Article one. Section four of the united states constitution grants the power to regulate the time, place, and manner of federal elections. However, the constitution also gives congress the power to make or alter those regulations at any time. Federal election law was last updated in 2009.
▶ 0:03:27In the years since, voter confidence has dropped the biden administration's failed immigration policies has resulted in over 10 million illegal aliens pouring into our country during that time period. Some states send every registered voter a ballot. 14 states don't require photo identification. This is what congress must implement. Common sense election integrity reforms. And that's why I've introduced the make elections great again act or the mega act.
▶ 0:03:58Here's the top line. Elections should end on election day. You should get a photo identification. To cast a ballot, you must be a citizen of the united states of america to vote in a federal election. We need audible paper ballots, and we shouldn't be sending ballots to people that don't request them. These reforms alone will improve our confidence, strengthen election integrity, and continue to make it easier to vote and hard to cheat. But this is a product of years of work and collaboration.
▶ 0:04:30We sought feedback from state and local election officials. We continue that dialog here today. Delays in election results weaken voter confidence. Thousands of ballots can't arrive days after election day, which is exactly what I witnessed when I was at los angeles county central count. Days after the november 2024 election. Noncitizens on voter rolls weaken voter confidence.
▶ 0:04:57We cannot allow someone to say that their citizen simply by registering to vote, by simply checking a box without verification, for example. That's exactly what ian roberts, an illegal alien, did when he registered to vote in the state of maryland. Stories like this undermine america's trust in our elections. We are here to fix that. Today, you may hear democrats make outlandish claims about these common sense policies.
▶ 0:05:24Sam graves former senate majority leader chuck schumer recently called these proposals jim crow. 2.0l. Jeffries repeatedly referred to these policies as voter suppression. These statements are false and salt the intelligence of the american people. They're also the exact same arguments that were made when georgia passed their election integrity law in 2021.
▶ 0:05:54Is there no recall? Major corporations took out full page ads in newspapers decrying the bill. Major league baseball moved the all star game out of atlanta. President biden called the georgia law, you guessed it jim crow 2.0. Stacey abrams, the georgia gubernatorial candidate, never hesitated to call it voter suppression. They were lying then, as democrats are around now. But in georgia, the law passed.
▶ 0:06:22Georgia's held two statewide elections since. What does this tell us? We can look at empirical data, and the data tells a far different story than the democrats would like it to do. Let's take a minute and review what's taken place in georgia. Without objection, I'd like to insert three news articles to the record. Voting is surging in georgia despite controversial new election law from the washington post. Yes, the washington post, axios.
▶ 0:06:51Record breaking early voting in georgia. Senate runoff in valdosta today. University of georgia post-election poll dispels voter suppression myth. All entered into the record. I encourage you to read them. The independent georgia survey referenced in the last article, I think is really important to explore further.
▶ 0:07:19The university of georgia did a large and substantive review of the georgia 2022 general election. After the election, integrity legislation was passed, 95% of voters reported excellent or good in their experience of the election. And that positive impression was across all key demographic groups.
▶ 0:07:43And that's important because, notably, 0% of blacks reported a poor or negative experience in the state of georgia. Statistically, additional 75% of voters weighted less than ten minutes in line to cast a ballot. What does all this mean? The common sense reforms house republicans are proposing today will ensure it remains easy to vote, but hard to cheat. Election should end on election day. You need a photo id to cast a ballot.
▶ 0:08:11You need to be a citizen to vote. You need an audible paper trail. And you shouldn't mail ballot to people that don't request them. These are common sense. It's why they're popular. It's time we make them standard in american elections. Today we have an opportunity to have this conversation and to move forward on real and substantive election integrity in the united states.
▶ 0:08:37I thank our witnesses for being here today, and I now will recognize the ranking member, Mr. morelli, for five minutes for the purpose of providing his opening statement. Good morning. >> thank you. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses for being here. Uh, there's nothing to gain and everything to lose from hiding from the truth. Because the truth is our last, best line of defense.
▶ 0:08:57Defense against an administration willing to abandon any pretense at honesty or integrity as they try desperately and corruptly to cling to power. An administration that long ago surrendered any imperative they felt to tell the truth.
▶ 0:09:14When federal agents gunned down american citizens on the streets of minneapolis, first a mother, then an icu nurse that had veterans as his patient, this administration's first instinct was to try to deceive the public to, despite video evidence, spread false claims about the events leading up to the murders to smear dead americans, calling them domestic terrorists in the face of this dishonesty.
▶ 0:09:41Those of us who would defend this republic have a moral obligation to say forcefully, loudly what we know to be true. And this is what we know. Donald trump and congressional republicans are terrified that they will lose the next election. The american people, over and over again for the past year, have rejected the president's policies at the ballot box. Resounding defeats for trump aligned candidates across this country, from virginia to texas.
▶ 0:10:09And this weekend in the speaker's home state of louisiana, because president trump has done nothing to make the lives of american people better, nothing to make things less expensive, nothing to make us safer. Because of these failures, republicans know they have one hope of winning the next election, change the rules of the game, destroy the rule of law, and desert any last remaining shred of allegiance to the united states constitution. Redrawing congressional lines to make them better for republicans. Changing the rules of elections.
▶ 0:10:39Brutalizing american citizens who exercise their rights under the us constitution. This scheme is not just how republicans plan to take over our elections, it's how they plan to take over our country to irrevocably destroy the american principles peace, prosperity, equality that we all hold dear. I want the administration to know, and anyone who would align with them, people on this committee. We see what you're doing. We will not let it happen.
▶ 0:11:04That's why homeland security committee ranking member bennie thompson and I sent a letter to this committee and the chairman last week. We requested the committee hear directly from attorney general pam bondi and secretary noem about the trump administration's attempt to extort an american state holding minnesotans hostage, literally at the barrel of a gun in exchange for voter file information. If this majority cared about election integrity, why aren't we investigating this horrendous abuse of power?
▶ 0:11:35Why aren't we demanding answers from this doj, from this dhs, from the administration, that, by the president's own admission, wants to nationalize elections to help republicans win? He says the quiet part out loud. Help republicans win. Today, we're apparently discussing the make elections great again act. Or at least I think that's what it's about, because republicans can't seem to decide. Our house colleagues have been talking about the save america act. We're voting on that bill tomorrow.
▶ 0:12:02Senate republicans are talking about the save act. But really, all these bills have the same outcome. They're the trump elections takeover bills. We know this because the president has said so himself. He said, we want to take over. We should take over the voting in at least 15 places. The republicans ought to nationalize the voting. Where are the republicans who once claimed they believed in the power of states to run elections? Because these bills will destroy that state power?
▶ 0:12:31This bill gives nine separate authorities to the department of homeland security, the department that has unleashed ice and border patrol onto our streets, harassing and attacking american citizens to interfere in state and local elections. Even some congressional republicans have called on secretary noem to resign. Why would we give her access to personal, private information of american voters?
▶ 0:12:55What's more, this bill gives pam bondi the power to unilaterally withhold all election funding to any state she chooses. I ask the american people this do you want donald trump running your elections? Do you want pam bondi or kristi noem running your elections? And I want every american to know this is not president trump's election to take over. It's yours. He wants to take your power for himself.
▶ 0:13:20You, the american people, will determine the outcome of midterm elections, not donald trump, not kristi noem, not pam bondi. We see what the administration is planning and we will stop them, even if congressional republicans will not. Thank you, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. Without objection, all other members opening statements will be made part of the hearing record if they're submitted to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. Today. Today we have one witness panel.
▶ 0:13:48First, we have wyoming secretary of state chuck gray. Next, we have michigan state representative anne boleyn. Next, we have Mr. russ noble, senior attorney at judicial watch. And finally, we have karen brinson bell, principal and co-founder of advent of advance elections. We appreciate all of you being with us today and look forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:14:13I'll now recognize secretary gray for five minutes for the purpose of giving his five minute opening statement. Chairman. Style ranking member. Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before. >> you today. >> as wyoming secretary of state and wyoming chief election official, I'm pleased to testify in complete support of the election's great again act. The act creates baseline common sense standards for integrity, security and confidence in federal elections across the united states.
▶ 0:14:42It is also key in fulfilling president trump's executive order, preserving and protecting the integrity of american elections, of which I also stand in complete support of these election integrity measures americans widely support, and I appreciate your work to get them to the finish line.
▶ 0:14:59As a member of the wyoming state legislature and now as wyoming secretary of state and chief election official, I've worked to advance our faith in the protections to our elections set forth in jack bergman act, many of which we have successfully instituted in wyoming, including as the lead sponsor of state legislation requiring voter id to cast a ballot in election in 2021, requiring documentary proof of united states citizenship to register to vote in 2025.
▶ 0:15:25Banning choice voting, instituting action date deadlines for receipt of ballots, and banning the private funding of election administration, otherwise known as checkbox. These measures have withstood scrutiny and legal challenge, and are being successfully implemented in wyoming elections in accordance with wyoming law. They are easy to implement and they are right.
▶ 0:15:46I speak specifically in support of the act's common sense provision to require documentary proof of united states citizenship for registering to vote in federal elections. Despite the cries we hear from the radical left, requiring proof of U.S. citizenship to vote is not over burdensome. On the contrary, it is essential to ensuring enforcement of federal law, which unambiguously requires us citizenship to vote. Requiring proof of U.S.
▶ 0:16:12Citizenship to vote was the number one priority of the administration's election integrity reform agenda, announced ahead of wyoming's 2025 legislative session in partnership with the legislature, we brought this landmark legislation into law patterned off the requirements of both jack bergman act and the save act, to verify a person's citizenship when they register to vote through documentary proof of citizenship. On the eve of our proof of citizenship measure taking effect, democrat attorney mark elias filed a federal lawsuit to block this voter integrity law.
▶ 0:16:43Immediately, our administration went to work preparing a vigorous defense. The lawsuit overwhelms landmark proof of citizenship law drew national attention, attracting the support of president trump's department of justice, the republican national committee and republican attorneys general, all who filed briefs in support of our position, and I thank them for their support. And we prevailed in this lawsuit.
▶ 0:17:05On july 22nd, 2025, the united states district court for the district of wyoming, granville motion to dismiss this federal lawsuit, finding that mark elias could find no one again, no one who was actually harmed or could be harmed by this new election integrity law. This is because in reality, as in rest of the country, it is easy for eligible U.S. citizens to obtain acceptable identification proving their citizenship. The radical left claims to the contrary are simply untrue and defy reality.
▶ 0:17:37It is so important that we pass the leg act to require that documentary proof of U.S. citizenship in all federal elections, so that these protections can be in place across the united states. Now transitioning to voter I.d. This widely supported election integrity reform is also simple to implement. Before we pass it, we would show the license at the polls even though it wasn't required. In every election cycle. I would get calls from aliens who asked me why on earth voter id wasn't required.
▶ 0:18:06It became a mission to pass voter I.d. And after we got voter id to the first line in 2021, the response we've had at the polls remaining is thank you. Thank you for having this basic protection of our elections and susie lee for the necessary identification to be attained. Citizen just goes to our motor vehicle services, completes the necessary application, and the department of transportation takes it from there. Now, on this deadline requiring all ballots to be received by the end of election.
▶ 0:18:37>> day. >> when ballots are received after election day, it opens up the election process to fraud, confusion and uncertainty. That's why the act's provisions stating that election day is the deadline for receipt of ballots. So we have uniformity and rigor around this issue is so important in wyoming. We're constantly striving to improve our elections and continue to work on going through the other reforms found in the act.
▶ 0:18:59These include measures to ban ballot harvesting and institute a uniform, auditable, standard pen and paper ballot requirement. I applaud the committee for spearheading this work at the federal level, as well as widespread support from americans. And I stand with president trump and you in working to achieve these goals. Let me be clear. The standards are implementable, common sense, and essential to restoring the integrity and security of elections across the united states.
▶ 0:19:28Thank you and happy to stand for questions. >> thank you very much. Now, recognize representative bohlen for five minutes. >> chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is anne boleyn, and I currently serve as the chair of the michigan house appropriations committee and previously chaired the house elections and ethics committee, working on election policy and oversight.
▶ 0:19:53Prior to that, I was a local clerk for 16 years, responsible for administering elections local, state, and federal. My experience has both been practical and bipartisan. After the 2020 election as elections chair, I negotiated broad bipartisan improvements to michigan election law, expanding options for local polling locations, strengthening drop box security and chain of custody standards.
▶ 0:20:19My focus has always been simple make it easy to vote and hard to cheat. Today, many americans hold real concerns about election security and fairness. This act gives us a chance to set clear, reasonable baseline standards for federal elections to help states deliver consistency, transparency and trust. The constitution grants primary responsibility to states for the time, place, and manner of elections, and the authority exists with congress to establish a baseline standards for federal elections.
▶ 0:20:51This act is not about federalizing elections. It is an opportunity to approach election policy in a practical and apolitical manner. After the extremely close election controversial presidential election in 2000, congress passed the help america vote act because it was revealed that the us lacked consistent, reliable, and modern election administration practices. Congress also acted with uocava and later the move act.
▶ 0:21:17These are all federal baseline standards that supported state administration and strengthened federal elections. And they made sense for the time. The 2020 election revealed similar variations in election practices and laws. Today is an opportunity for all of us to revive the trust of the american people in our elections and end this adolescent boys game of dodgeball.
▶ 0:21:42Bringing common sense and widely supported safeguards to ensure we have fair and secure elections. This starts and stops with solid voter rolls for us citizens only. The american public is resoundingly in support of this 83% support only us citizens voting and using an id for elections. Requiring photo id to cast a ballot is a common sense step that aligns with everyday life.
▶ 0:22:09Voter id requirements can be implemented while ensuring access with the goal of the requirement of clarity. Security in broad participation by those who are eligible to vote. When voters know that everyone is playing by the same rules, trust grows. That trust benefits everyone. Adopting photo id protocols nationally should be an essential element of our elections. Photo ids should be current, and current should be clearly defined.
▶ 0:22:38Photo id protects the voter and the election administrator. Voter registration is the foundation of accurate voter rolls. The mega act's emphasis on citizenship verification at the time of registration reflects a very basic principle. Federal elections are for united states citizens. Documentary proof of citizenship, when registering, would create a clear and consistent standard across states.
▶ 0:23:05Registration should not be considered complete without this proof, suggesting this will harm certain demographics is both disingenuous and insulting. Nationally, we just completed real id process, which showed nationwide identity verification efforts can be implemented, implemented thoughtfully and effectively. Registration list maintenance should include cross check verification.
▶ 0:23:30Access to cross checking data should remain with election administrators and never be transferred to third parties. Government data sources can assist in this effort as a clear and usable pathway for states to manage their voter rolls. Accurate voter rolls are the bedrock of secure elections. Federal baseline standards, including list maintenance, can support states in carrying this out consistently.
▶ 0:23:54Baseline standards can generate better protections and improve election administration, supporting quality control, standardized post election and performance audits can help improve administration by early identification of procedural shortfalls. Before they become a problem. He ballot standards are paramount. Paper ballots with numbered stubs should be used in all elections. They should be printed with safeguards such as barcodes or watermarks to prevent fraudulent ballots.
▶ 0:24:22Ballot and voter harvesting should be treated as harsh offenses with stiff penalties, in-person election day voting and limited early voting should be limited. All mail in ballots should be considered absent voter ballots. They should require an application stating a reason and a wet signature. Too many states have removed the application requirement, creating opportunities for fraud.
▶ 0:24:48All application and ballot activity should be date and time stamped by an election official. Consistent with federal regulations. A thorough chain of custody from start to finish ensures the greatest level of integrity for a recount. The canvass, the certification or post-election audits. Efforts to reestablish federal baseline standards will take commitment.
▶ 0:25:10As michigan house appropriations chair, I am compelled to encourage adequate funding for our elections, not third party funding. I generally do not welcome big brother, but I do think elections should be considered key infrastructure if we are to avoid systematic overhaul of our elections by states through ranked choice voting, qr code voting, ballots on demand and the like, consideration of funding contingent upon compliance with the act accelerates its implementation.
▶ 0:25:39Finally, the mega act provides an opportunity to establish practical, nationwide baseline standards for federal elections while respecting the roles of states administering them. With thoughtful implementation, we can make elections work better for voters, election officials, candidates and our country to ensure every eligible voter can vote freely, secretly, independently and securely. Thank you again for the opportunity to share my perspective and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much, Mr.
▶ 0:26:10Noble. You're now recognized for five minutes. >> good morning, Mr. chair, and members of the committee. My name is russell noble and I'm a senior attorney at judicial watch, specializing. Good morning, Mr. chairman, and members of the committee. My name is russell noble. I am a election integrity lawyer at judicial watch. Uh, the core point of my testimony is simple. Public confidence and integrity of elections is declining.
▶ 0:26:38The decline is not driven by lack of ballot access, but rather inadequate and lax enforcement of basic election integrity safeguards. The data tells a clear story. Voter registration and turnout continue to go higher, and minority ballot access is at or near record levels. Historical racial disparities supporting the need to promote ballot access have largely been eliminated. At the same time, the public strongly supports common sense election integrity measures.
▶ 0:27:07Large majorities support voter id and uniform election deadlines. They support proof of citizenship requirements and clean registration lists. Yet despite this consensus, many states have moved to undermine election integrity. One of the most troubling shifts has been the expansion of universal mail voting, which sends unsolicited ballots automatically to all voters, regardless of eligibility. My written testimony describes how progressive politicians propose this very system 100 years ago.
▶ 0:27:38It was a bad idea then it remains a bad idea. No mature democracy would adopt such an insecure voting system. Among other ills. It weakens chain of custody protections. It increases the risk of coercion and brings that risk of coercion to people's houses, a real risk for vulnerable voters. It risks third party interference and administrative error. It erodes public trust in elections. Universal.
▶ 0:28:05Universal mail voting is bad policy in any context, but it's particularly bad when combined with inaccurate voter registration lists. Not long ago, the supreme court found that 24 million registrations, about 1 in 8 in the united states, are invalid or inaccurate, and 2.75 million people were registered in multiple states. Delia ramirez have long been the gateway for other election mischief. Take california, who judicial watch is suing right now on behalf of the libertarian party.
▶ 0:28:35It has both universal mail voting and registration list. Our own internal analysis found that 21 counties with approximately 6 million voters removed a combined 11 voters over two years for change of address. That's 11 voters removed from a group of 6,000,011 over two years.
▶ 0:28:59The nvra imposes modest list maintenance duties on states, and it guarantees organizations like judicial watch access list maintenance records so we can verify compliance with federal law. Many states fail under both federal obligations. Many do not conduct meaningfulness maintenance, and many simply ask them for the records to to verify as we're allowed to under federal law, they refuse, delay, or claim the records do not exist. Now.
▶ 0:29:26They're not even giving the records to the department of justice, where I formerly worked, and would ordinarily ask for these records. From 2004 to 2010. Those refusals are not just technical oversights. They defeat transparency. They prevent public oversight and undermine public confidence in the election administration. Last year, judicial watch reported that our enforcement efforts over the years have resulted in more than 5 million ineligible registrations being removed nationwide, 5 million.
▶ 0:29:56Despite our success, we've barely moved the needle. Just last month, oregon's new secretary of state announced that they needed to remove 800,000 inactive voters in response to our lawsuit. The evidence shows that oregon hasn't removed voters since 2017. While oregon's announcement is progress, it illustrates just how pervasive state noncompliance has become. We have other suits pending finally address our recent the recent trends where states are allowing ballots to arrive days and weeks after election day.
▶ 0:30:25For the last five years, my colleagues and I have sued several states challenging this practice. And last month, the supreme court ruled in our favor. In the first case we in which we represent congressman michael bass in his suit against illinois, it took four years to get a federal court to say that we could sue. And finally, the supreme court agreed. The aggressive practice of allowing ballots to roll in for days and weeks after election day is chiefly responsible for creating the banana republic style confusion that follow american elections. Today. Judicial watch is client.
▶ 0:30:55Libertarian party of mississippi, along with the rnc, successfully sued mississippi in 2024 over this same practice. We won. And then yesterday, we filed our brief with the supreme court to defend our. When the supreme court will hear that case on march 23rd. Our brief is our brief is attached in the record, 76% of the public supported his theory explains why election integrity safeguards exist. They're not adopted by accident and they're not racist. Thank you for inviting me to testify today. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:31:26>> thank you very much. Uh, miss brinson bell, you're now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. Chairman style ranking ranking member morelli and members of the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to testify today. My name is karen brinson bell, and from june 1st, 2019 until may 14th, 2025, I had the honor of serving as north carolina's chief election official and the executive director of the state board of elections.
▶ 0:31:51I oversaw the voting process for more than 7.5 million registered voters, and led the 100 county boards of elections through hurricanes, a global pandemic and record setting turnout. Since 2006, I have served in various roles at the county, state and national levels within the elections. Profession. Like my colleagues across the country, my work is always nonpartisan.
▶ 0:32:14As principal and co-founder of the firm advance elections, I now consult with election officials across our country on improving resilience in emergency situations and securing our elections. I was proud to testify last year before the subcommittee on elections, and I thank chairwoman lee and ranking member sewell for the opportunity to bring to congress the story of the people of western north carolina who did heroic work to maintain voting access in the aftermath of hurricane helene.
▶ 0:32:44I know from firsthand experience that election officials at the state and local level historically have not, and currently do not receive sufficient support from our federal partners. All of the members of this committee were elected by ballots that were prepared and paid for by almost entirely by state and local governments, everything that ensured that your election was accessible to voters, that only eligible voters could vote, and that their ballots could be counted as cast.
▶ 0:33:13All of it was run by local and state officials, and nearly all of it. 96%. Yes, 96% was paid for by state and local governments. Congress has appropriated some money through the critical election security grants program, including 45 million in the latest round of appropriations. While welcome, 45 million is in no way sufficient for election officials grappling with rising costs and increasing threats.
▶ 0:33:43I've reviewed the mega act and the save america act, both of which would impose substantial new federal mandates. I did control f for the dollar sign, and I did not see a single dollar, much less the hundreds of millions needed to implement these changes. The rigid photo id mandates would sweep away current systems, even in most states with voter id law placing an additional id requirements.
▶ 0:34:07In many states, the bill would require equipping election offices with the means to verify ids for every mail in ballot, requiring an investment in new technology and additional staff. For context, the recent inclusion of photo id documentation with the return of the ballot in north carolina required a significant redesign of the mail ballot envelope.
▶ 0:34:26It led to increased postage costs and necessitated the development of administrative rules, including a public comment period, submission to the rules review commission, extensive training and voter outreach, the implementation of voter id in north carolina alone was a multi-million dollar endeavor with a considerable runway in years of litigation.
▶ 0:34:47Next, the bills nationwide documentary, proof of citizenship mandates would require local election officials to act as document verifiers, an enormously expanded role for which they are not staffed or funded. And let's not forget the bigger picture a nationwide proof of citizenship mandate that does not allow states to tailor policies to their own needs would disenfranchize eligible voters.
▶ 0:35:13When kansas attempted to implement a proof of citizenship in 2014, even with a year and a half of implementation time, 12% of applicants were denied registration for failing to provide documentary proof of citizenship. Virtually all of those denied registration were in fact eligible. The bills list maintenance procedures are also unnecessarily burdensome, costly, and do not provide flexibility to account for the differences.
▶ 0:35:42Among the more than 10,000 election jurisdictions in the united states, nearly every provision in this bill would sweep away current effective systems of election administrations across the country with without support or funding. As I bring my testimony to a close, elections are run by people in and of the communities where they are taking place. The needs of communities in wyoming differ from those in michigan and north carolina. Decentralized election administration is a feature, not a bug, of our democratic system.
▶ 0:36:11In this regard, I agree with you, chairman style. When you stated at a hearing in this very room in march of 2023 that election administration looks different in every state, and that it is that it is our federalist approach in action. I appreciate your long standing opposition to un-american calls to nationalize our elections, Mr. chairman, and I presume it continues. In closing, election officials have a simple request of congress that you help share their burdens, not add to them.
▶ 0:36:42The bill under discussion today does not meet that simple test. Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you very much. I now recognize myself for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions. We'll alternate sides. Um, I'd like to start with you, secretary gray. If I can't, we got a lot of information there from miss brinson. Bell echoes a lot of comments I hear from my democrats. But we got a great empirical case study in the state of wyoming. So maybe we could learn a little bit about exactly what took place.
▶ 0:37:12Uh, we heard that implementing photo id requires extensive training. Uh, I bought a six pack of beer in wisconsin the other day. The clerk, I don't think he had extensive training, but, boy, he was able to look at my id, confirm my birth date, confirm that was me, uh, and then was able to sell me a six pack of beer. Uh, is your experience in the state of wyoming? If folks in wyoming need extensive training to implement photo identification.
▶ 0:37:41>> chairman style, thank you for that question. My experience is that, uh, this is a common sense requirement. In fact, as my testimony talked about in the lead up to us passing voter id, we would have not have a lot of nights that would show the idea wasn't required. And they were outraged because. >> you need a photo id when you bought an airplane, open a bank account, buy a six pack of beer so there's more. Extensive training is required. When you implemented photo id. >> in wyoming, correct? No extensive training.
▶ 0:38:08Then we heard hundreds of millions of dollars. There are some people in this building that could not spend enough money of taxpayer dollars, uh, to do all sorts of stuff, but I'm thinking to myself, you know, I bought an airplane, I bought a six pack of beer. I have to show my photo identification, uh, for the 2024 dnc convention, uh, you had to show your id. There was a senator, uh, just last week who held a town hall, uh, required people to show their photo identification, uh, to come to his town hall.
▶ 0:38:38Um, massive costs associated with photo identification. In your experience in wyoming? No massive cost, chairman style. In fact, you know, we have a provisional voter id law that an individual can request. An id, have a hardship exemption. >> if that is required.
▶ 0:38:57>> so then and now, right now, the requirements in the jack bergman act would impose no further costs because we already allow for obtaining that id id on a hardship exemption for purposes of voting. So there's no further cost, which makes total sense, right? So if you truly have somebody that's indigent doesn't have the funds to do it, the state should be able to provide that for id. Wisconsin, uh, does the same thing, but there's no cost to administer the elections in this regard. Wyoming implemented one of the handful of states not in the nvra.
▶ 0:39:26So many states are restricted and prevented from providing citizenship verification. Wyoming is in a unique position where you can actually implement citizenship verification, very different than maybe the state of arizona, for example. Uh, that's tried to to work through that. Um, so let's look at the experience that we have in the city of wyoming and implemented citizenship verification. Uh, we've heard from some of our colleagues, you know, that millions or thousands or hundreds of people would be disenfranchized.
▶ 0:39:53Uh, what is your experience in the state of wyoming after after you had your election, after you've implemented, uh, citizenship verification? Well, thank you, chairman style for that question. >> and we had a very. Clean bond election. Last year. >> under the. >> documentary proof of citizenship requirement. It was. >> very clean. No issues. >> no complaints. Uh, it was just very well run. And people were excited that we implemented this.
▶ 0:40:21>> we're hearing today didn't materialize in the state of wyoming. Uh, from a cost standpoint, from a disenfranchisement standpoint, what you ended up was a good, solid, clean election. Do you think people's confidence in elections increased in the state of wyoming as these common sense procedures were implemented? Absolutely, Mr. chairman, should be implemented in all 50 states. >> yes, I believe it should be implemented in all 50 states. >> I want to finalize on one item. You noted that in the state of wyoming, ballots need to be in by the end of election day.
▶ 0:40:50By the time polls close, uh, at the end of the 2024 election, I went to the state of california, joined by a couple of my colleagues from california there. And I went to los angeles county central count, uh, and you see thousands of ballots coming in literally by the truckload after elections close, because they allow ballots that are postmarked with a huge exception, uh, in that law to arrive after the election day, they're being counted. You don't know, california results for house races that were competitive.
▶ 0:41:18Uh, if there was a competitive, uh, statewide race, we wouldn't have known results for that either. When you delay those results, does that instill confidence or does that hurt americans confidence in our elections? >> it damages confidence, Mr. chairman. >> it doesn't damages confidence. You can envision going and playing a card game. I imagine I'm not a card player, but if you went to a casino and played cards and you're playing with a dealer and the very end of the game with that dealer, the dealer says, you know what?
▶ 0:41:47I'm not going to flip over my cards for 3 or 4 days. You could be playing at the pump, and you wouldn't have a lot of confidence in exactly what is taking place. This is all about instilling confidence in our elections that americans have confidence that georgia election law, the laws in the reforms in the state of wyoming, prove that you can do this correctly. You can increase confidence in our elections. And what georgia has shown us is when you increase confidence in our elections, people will participate.
▶ 0:42:14It's why the state of georgia's election participation remain high, and it's why wyoming is doing a good job as well. I will yield back. I will now recognize the chair, the ranking member, Mr. morelli, for five minutes for questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I do want to acknowledge I have complete faith in the pope. So if he told me something, I would believe it. Um, I would like to, uh. Last week, referring to the state of minnesota, president trump said, and this is a direct quote, I won the state of minnesota three times, but I got no credit for it.
▶ 0:42:44Congress three times certified minnesota's electoral college votes three times, including twice under house republican majorities. Congress certified donald trump as the loser of the presidential election in minnesota. Um, reminding the witnesses you're under oath that just a simple question. We could start from right to left. Um, do you have evidence or reason to believe congress incorrectly certified minnesota's results due to widespread fraud in minnesota? Uh, miss brinson bell.
▶ 0:43:15>> sorry, sir. >> um, I have no. >> reason to believe that, uh, congress had congress rightfully certified the election. >> um, Mr. noble. >> uh, I do not have any evidence. >> miss bowman. >> I don't have any evidence either. >> uh, Mr. secretary. >> I believe. >> there were issues I do. What does that mean? I believe there were issues out there that needs to be looked into.
▶ 0:43:40And I think that, you know, from an election integrity perspective to to perceive that we're not we're not going to even ask questions. And the way that the modern day democrat party, when people ask questions of have mocked them, is very troubling to me. Well, I would I would just say this, sir, you're under oath. You're here as an expert witness. If you have evidence that there was fraud in minnesota, I think we should be. The committee members would very much welcome it.
▶ 0:44:06Otherwise, I assume, and I frankly, I think I don't appreciate your partizan remarks, and I noticed that you left out in your opening statement, but it's in your written testimony. You referred to leftist goons when you're talking about people who bring cases in front of the court. So, um, let me, uh, let me move on. I, um, I would love to, uh, ask miss brendan boyle. I appreciate you being here, and I appreciate your past testimony around the work that you did, uh, in north carolina and your comments regarding state and local officials.
▶ 0:44:36You have obviously a tremendous amount of experience. Um, this week, republicans are bringing the save america act to the floor. Presumably, it's in committee. Uh, the rules committee later, a bill that imposes strict new, um, documentary proof of citizenship requirements in order for american citizens to register to vote. Um, like the bill we're discussing here, uh, the save america act would be effective immediately.
▶ 0:45:01Uh, many states, including north carolina, have primary elections literally in just a few weeks. I wonder if you could, um, just comment. It would states even have time to comply with such a massive change. Um, with federal elections just around the corner. >> thank you. Sir. Um, I would just propose to everyone that when we talk about immediate implementation of, uh, any type of of change in election administration that that is unworkable.
▶ 0:45:31Uh, and I point that out because, um, representative bohlen, she pointed out some wonderful, uh, pieces of legislation that we have implemented across our country, uh, effectively nvra uocava, so forth and so on. They all had runways. They all had funding. Uh, they all had training and ways that we were able to support the implementation. And so that would be my note of caution.
▶ 0:45:59And north carolina, you know, is in the election, ballots have already gone out. And early voting starts on 30 on thursday. Yeah. So the election is underway and it will be for many other states very soon. >> very good. Um, you know, I keep hearing about, um, american elections not being secure. You did this for a number of years. Our american election security. You talked about local and state. Um, just your opinion on whether american elections are secure.
▶ 0:46:30>> yes, sir. Um, I believe that is the security of our elections has been proven. I believe that's why congress has been able to certify the elections and our legislatures and our state boards and our secretary of state. In north carolina alone. We have conducted post-election audits since 2006, reconciliation practices that, uh, prove the security of our elections. Um, we have also, you know, had record breaking turnout, as the citizens have known about the additional efforts that we have put in place in north carolina.
▶ 0:47:01Uh, and I firmly believe that when someone believes that the system is secure, when they believe that the system works, that's when they participate. And so that's why north carolinians turned out 70 over 75% in 2020. >> thank you. Um, just one last question. As I'm running out of time, the provision ending mail by voting elections alone would upend the way elections are conducted for nearly 70 million americans.
▶ 0:47:28Um, how much does it cost to run a statewide election in, uh, in north carolina? Do you know. >> a statewide election in north carolina? A recent survey of the 2024 election was $35 million. >> just in north carolina. >> thank you. Um, as I, uh, before I yield back, Mr. chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record. Uh, two pieces.
▶ 0:47:50Uh, first of all, um, a statement in opposition to the bill from the league of women voters, a second from fairvote action, as well as a letter from the national association of counties sharing concerns with the bill and into the record, a column by former maricopa county recorder, a republican from arizona, which makes clear that republican claims about voter fraud are bogus. >> without objection. >> and with that, I yield back. Thank you. >> the gentleman yields back.
▶ 0:48:19The gentleman from florida, the vice chair of the committee, miss lee, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, for convening this important hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today. As florida's former secretary of state, promoting voter confidence in election security have been key priorities of mine since coming to congress.
▶ 0:48:38And the committees make elections great again act includes a number of common sense requirements, including photo id, an election day deadline for receiving ballots, and list maintenance standards that a number of you have already touched upon. These measures are proven effective. They promote security, uh, and they do promote public confidence. All endeavors we should be pursuing in congress.
▶ 0:49:10Chairwoman bohlen, I'd like to return to one of the concepts that you mentioned during your testimony. Uh, and it's this the concept of critical infrastructure. So the department of homeland security designated elections infrastructure as critical infrastructure, and as a consequence, for a number of years now has been providing cybersecurity support to state and local elected officials.
▶ 0:49:33You touch on this concept as important both to election systems and equipment, and also how you view the federalism concerns related to elections. I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on those concepts. >> yes. Thank you very much for the question. I think it is extremely important when we, uh, relegate these to the states. Everybody wants confidence. I am really puzzled by the suggestion that, uh, there's not a lot of fraud.
▶ 0:50:02Why would we wait for fraud to occur to protect it? And so these issues of security, these security in the ballots, security in the database system security in the actual machines that are tabulating. This was a requirement under the help america vote act, as was the electronic qualified voter files. Uh, and so this is a great opportunity to see we know we have advanced so far.
▶ 0:50:25I mean the good advances as all as well as the cynical advances and the security issues that, uh, it's time for a reset. We should be looking at it right now. The eac is looking at guidelines, security guidelines for our equipment. There's concerns about transmission. We all want timely results. And in order to get timely results, we also want them to be accurate. So the systems in place that feed into that are extremely important.
▶ 0:50:52The accuracy tests, the confidence, the transparency and most importantly, accountability. If there is no accountability, then we will never have fair elections. >> and Mr. noble, going back to that concept, we heard testimony earlier, uh, about the chairman had great questions about the connection between timely election results reporting and voter confidence. Uh, I'd like to hear your perspective on that.
▶ 0:51:19But also in your written testimony, you go a step further and note that election ballot deadlines past election day. Uh, in your view, even violate federal law. Tell us about that. >> yeah, it's not just us. The court of appeals for the fifth circuit said that. So we've been litigating this for five years. Uh, when congress enacted the first election integrity provision in the history of article two, it enacted election day.
▶ 0:51:47And in all times, election day ended on election day. But in the last 15 years, there's been this activist effort to get state legislators to extend ballot deadlines in a way that, frankly, makes elections disorderly and unreliable and suspicious. And it's radically reduced public trust in elections. And for the last 15 years, we've been suffering through two weeks of post-election uncertainty because people aren't just getting their ballots in time or returned in time.
▶ 0:52:16And frankly, the denominator of ballots outstanding continues to increase, which when people go to bed at night, they need to know how many ballots are outstanding. They need to know, uh, how many ballots ballots are left to be counted, and they don't need to wake up three days later and find out there's an additional 150,000 ballots coming in. So it's just, frankly, a radically undermining elections. >> it is. And I can tell you, in florida, third largest state in the country, we know how to do this. We get our ballots in on election day.
▶ 0:52:45We have results by 9:00, uh, so it can be done. And it absolutely improves voter confidence. Let me also touch on this. There's a lot of discussion about citizenship, you know, in and around today's hearing. But would you elaborate on the other reasons? There are actually a multitude of reasons why somebody may be, uh, need to be removed from voter registration rolls, everything from death to moving. Would you elaborate for us on many of the reasons why somebody might need to be removed from a voter roll?
▶ 0:53:15>> yeah, you got to have a clean and accurate voter registration list to keep fraud from happening. Right. And so it's that's the whole reason why it was created in the 1800s. And, uh, thankfully, states including north carolina are not complying with their nvra obligations. We sued them four years ago. We're currently suing california, oregon and illinois. And people need to know that the the way you commit fraud and undermine an election is you have a dirty voter registration list. That's step one. >> thank you, Mr. noble. Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back.
▶ 0:53:46Uh, miss soul is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, my questions are for you. Uh, secretary gray. Um, I've read with great interest about your election integrity agenda, especially the proof of citizenship law that was passed by wyoming state legislature. You must have had rampant voter fraud to make it necessary to pass such restrictive laws.
▶ 0:54:06So my question to you is, what is the number of voter, uh, election fraud cases in your state of wyoming over the last 20 years? >> well, congresswoman, it's it's sort of a circular question. I've seen this a lot from. >> from, you know, I'm going to reclaim my time since I have very limited time. Um, I'm going to let you know that it's only one, only one case.
▶ 0:54:31And this is in data from some far left think tank. This is data collected from the heritage foundation. Mr. chairman, I would like to ask you to consent to enter into the record, uh, this report by the heritage foundation that shows that the state of wyoming has only had one case of voter fraud. >> without objection. >> um, Mr.
▶ 0:54:55Gray or secretary gray, as I'm sure you know, president trump has recently called for the federal government, to, quote, take over elections, your state elected official, what branch of government has the legal right to administer elections? Does the president of the united states have the authority to administer a nationalized elections? >> well. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:55:20And congressman, first, I'd like to state that I disagree with your previous assertion about only one one example. Well, you know, I'd also. >> evidence, sir, with all due respect, this is my time. Thank you. So the evidence speaks for itself. The fact of the matter is, is that it seems to me that we're solving for a problem. Uh, and we're offering a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, is what I'm saying. I can answer the question also as to who's in charge of administering, uh, elections.
▶ 0:55:49Neither the president nor congress has the right to run elections. Article one, section four, clause one of the constitution is very clear. The time, place and manner of holding elections shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof. Now, congress can alter the regulation of elections. However, the president has no legal authority to decide which ballots are counted, and he certainly cannot administer elections himself. Mr.
▶ 0:56:16Chairman, I must say voting rights used to be widely bipartisan, and lately it has been so. Partizan. This committee should not be involved in the president's scheme to rig this year's midterm election and this disinformation campaign to legitimize lies and and myths about rampant voter voter fraud by non-citizens, uh, where we already have laws on the books that say that non-citizens, it is illegal for them to vote.
▶ 0:56:46Uh, Mr. gray, on january 22nd, 2026. Secretary gray, just a couple of weeks ago, you put out a press release in your official capacity as wyoming secretary of state that announced your top five election integrity priorities, which included eliminating medicare, medicaid and student ids as acceptable forms of identification for voting. This provision is also in the bill as well.
▶ 0:57:15Uh, what is the problem with using student ids or ids like federal ids, like medicare and medicaid? And why do we find them so objectionable? >> uh, Mr. chairman, congresswoman, the issue with many of these ideas is that they don't have photos on them. That's one of the issues. So how do you have how do you have. >> with all due respect, um, we have already established that voter fraud in your state is basically non-existent.
▶ 0:57:43So there can't be any reason for restricting the types of ids more frequently used by low income and elderly americans. The real reason suggests to me that you're picking the voters who can actually vote, uh, and eliminating students or making it harder for students who have reached the age of 18 to vote. Uh, to me, sounds very discriminatory. Uh, miss bolin, I ask you the same question I asked secretary gray.
▶ 0:58:10Do you know the number of reported cases of election fraud in the state of michigan over the last 20 years? I can tell you, since my time is running out, it's 19 cases, 19 out of 64,520,000 ballots cast. That's a rate of 0.0002% of fraud. Uh, Mr. chairman, I ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record the heritage foundation's election fraud map that shows this point.
▶ 0:58:39Nobody should be fooled by what's going on here today. The only thing mega about this bill is that it's mega voter suppression. The rate of voter fraud is almost nonexistent relative to the number of ballots cast in each election. The republicans voter suppression agenda is simply designed to appease trump and to set the stage for a takeover and nationalization of elections.
▶ 0:59:04The trump agenda is rooted in anti-immigrant conspiracy theories aimed at disenfranchizing young people, women, the elderly, people of color and 1 in 3 eligible voters in america do not participate in our elections for a host of reasons, and 25% of eligible voters in america are not even registered. Instead of conducting this charade, I would prefer the time of this committee to be used trying to make sure that all americans, all americans, have the right to access the ballot box and to vote.
▶ 0:59:34And with that, sir, I, I yield back the balance of my time. >> the gentleman yields back. The gentleman from georgia, Mr. loudermilk, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Um, I'm the longest serving member on this committee, and I think it's rich that the other side of, uh, the dais up here is talking about a federal takeover from a of elections. When I sat in this committee just a few years ago with a bill called h.r.
▶ 1:00:04One, the speaker, nancy pelosi, pushed forward. It was a 600 page bill that was a total federal unconstitutional takeover of elections. It included provisions that were not just challenging to impose on the states, but impossible to impose on the states.
▶ 1:00:26So when we when we're discussing a way of making our election systems with more integrity, I find it disingenuous to hear that this is a federal takeover by those that have authored one of the greatest and most exclusive federal takeover election bills ever.
▶ 1:00:50And from the looks of folks at the table and in the the audience, I think you all remember h.r. One and what it also included the federal government helping pay for campaigns. So it was quite an interesting time that we're here, and I just find it.
▶ 1:01:06It's even that much more interesting now that the folks who authored the greatest federal takeover of elections are complaining about wanting somebody to prove their citizenship before they vote with that, um, secretary gray, um, there's been a lot of critics, um, and of election security efforts in general will claim congress is requiring states to engage, engage in expensive, uh, expensive changes to their election system.
▶ 1:01:33Um, have you experienced that? It was very expensive for the state of wyoming to implement its requirement for documenting proof of united states citizenship, for registering to vote? >> congressman. >> Mr. chairman, it was seamless. Uh, low cost, no cost. And I haven't seen any cost yet. All of them revising training materials.
▶ 1:01:58Um, and it is just been a seamless approach and implementing these federal statutes. >> what about the provisions within this bill? Do you anticipate that that would create a lot of expense to implement what's in here in the state of wyoming? >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Congressman, not anticipating really any expense. And the federal government has a role to play in setting these baseline standards.
▶ 1:02:24I mean, a little bit of the testimony from democratic congresswoman previously, you look at how the the civil rights act, these are all bills that were supported by the democrat party. That's a baseline standards for for elections. And that's what the senate act is doing. So it's really incredible. Some of these claims that are being that are being made by the democrat party. >> well. >> I appreciate that.
▶ 1:02:49You know, it seems like we've entered into an era of politics to where it really doesn't matter what the core principles are, as long as you can hang your political opponent with it, that's all that really matters these days. One last question for you. Would having a uniform procedure such as in this bill, um, and security standards make it less expensive for states to run federal elections? >> Mr.
▶ 1:03:13Chairman, congressman, I think having a uniform standard really clarifies things, and I think it's going to be very low cost or low cost. And really it's just revising training materials. That's that's the big that's it's it. And there's really no cost attached to that. >> well, thank you for that. Uh, representative bolin, real quickly in the remainder of my time. Thank you for being here. When I was a state representative, I had the opportunity to come and speak before congress. And so we appreciate your time.
▶ 1:03:41Um, the department of justice recently asked for michigan to turn over portions of their centralized voter list in order to verify whether or not michigan is compliant with the voter list. Maintenance procedures required by the national voter registration act. Um. In response, secretary benson wrote, the law does not support this assertion. The collection, use, and dissemination of private information should be for a necessary and lawful purpose.
▶ 1:04:06My question is, is protecting the integrity of voter rolls and necessary and lawful purpose, in your opinion? >> well, uh, protecting the voter rolls, I would say protecting elections and the voters is more important. We do know that our secretary of state has a history of making up her own laws. Uh, while she's a secretary of state, she does. She is not a legislator. And I think that, uh, that's a reminder of that.
▶ 1:04:30And I would say that we need to make sure that we are not making these dictates. There have been these interpretations, uh, by benson, inclusive of benson over the years. Uh, that really aggravated the situation. And I would say it led to a lot of the disruption in the 2020 election. Uh, our secretary of state has, uh, really, uh, we had to subpoena her by our oversight committee. Continues to refuse practical things.
▶ 1:04:55A manual for election administrators under the guise that it's to protect the voters. Now, I think we all need to know and understand the standards of training for our election workers. >> thank you for your time, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. Uh, the representative from california, miss torres, is recognized for five minutes. >> uh, thank you, chairman, and welcome to our witnesses. Uh, shocking. What is happening in our country is not normal.
▶ 1:05:20This administration seems hell bent on blocking certain voters from casting their ballot, changing the rules of elections so outrageously to purposely block millions of americans who have been demonstrating against republican policies. President trump said he wants to federalize elections.
▶ 1:05:49And we need to ask, what does that actually mean? Are we talking about military with machine guns at our at our local school election stations or masked, untrained, heavily armed ice agents surrounding our community centers? What are we talking about here?
▶ 1:06:11The fbi just raided a local election office with the director of national intelligence tagging along like an obedient dog, allegedly in pursuit of a fever dream. Conspiracy theory about the 2020 elections that no sane person believes.
▶ 1:06:33Reportedly, the administration forced out the fbi special agent in charge when he questioned this investigation and after his removal, the head of national intelligence put the local fbi field agents on a direct call with the president.
▶ 1:06:52And I've been told that fulton county now has no way, no way to verify if the fbi or anyone else has altered any of those ballots. The republican election bills being considered are a direct attack on dissent of current republican policies on married women, women who build careers led companies serve in congress.
▶ 1:07:21And yes, women like me who got married and changed their names on young voters and seniors who cannot afford to purchase a passport. But instead of focusing on affordable childcare and quality maternal health, these bills will make tens of thousands of american women struggle needlessly to vote. This is about control.
▶ 1:07:46It is about silencing people who do not agree with republican policies and about blocking women from the ballot. But we will not be silenced.
▶ 1:07:59Chairman steele, I truly enjoy touring my local election office with you just two years ago, and was delighted with your statement that it was an amazing experience to walk through the la central count, which counted more ballots than 38 states in the 2024 general election.
▶ 1:08:23I asked for unanimous consent to enter into the record testimony from my local la county elections official. >> that objection. >> thank you. I had doubts about you, had doubts about california elections and went to the source. And I admired you for that.
▶ 1:08:45To address those very doubts, you brought, fox news held a press briefing but refused to allow democrats to join. Why? Maybe because you found nothing out of order.
▶ 1:08:59You saw instead hardworking public servants working under the eye of streaming video cameras available for anyone in los angeles county or across the country. >> will the gentleman yield? >> we are looking for legislation to fix a problem. You failed to find.
▶ 1:09:24Not a single committee, republican or political observer, contested the outcome of any house race in 2024 or provided any evidence that california suffered from fraud irregularities. And why is that? Because california's election infrastructure is sound. We invest in secure systems, rigorous training and transparency at every level.
▶ 1:09:48California has worked hard to ensure that every eligible american voter can cast their ballot. And yes, election day ends at 8 p.m. On election day. And as frustrating as it may be to make sure that every vote is counted, our fantastic state and local election workers make sure that it happens in a secure and transparent way.
▶ 1:10:13Let's be honest, actions taken to turn our entire election system upside down have one goal instead. This is the effort. Not that is similar like pizza gate 2.0, where an ill informed citizen drove across the country to find sexually abused children. Look over there. Meanwhile, we keep the epstein files secret and I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. The gentleman from virginia, Mr.
▶ 1:10:44Griffiths, recognized for five minutes. You very much, Mr. chairman. I agree with my colleagues. All american citizens should have the right to vote. I do, however, disagree that the desire to have all americans being able to vote has been bipartisan in the past. Having been a child during the jim crow era, I can assure you that the make elections great again. Bill is not jim crow. But let's talk about jim crow in virginia in 1902.
▶ 1:11:12Virginia, the virginia constitution was rewritten by democrats. They didn't take it to the people to vote on it. They just did. It assembled in richmond. And the concept was everybody will recall to disenfranchize african americans. But what people don't recall is it was also to disenfranchize poor white republican voters in the western part of the state, the very part of the state that I now have the great pleasure and proud to represent.
▶ 1:11:40It was done to take them out of the voting rolls, too, because the republican populist coalition was challenging the dominant democrats in the state, and the democrat party did that, led by e carter glass of lynchburg, virginia. And it would take some time to break that coalition up. And you know what it was, Mr. chairman?
▶ 1:12:02It was the federal government interfering, according to all the democrat politicians of the time, interfering in the states and telling them you can't continue to run your elections with poll taxes with complex, subjective, subjective registration processes and having quote unquote, an understanding clause, making sure that people understood what was going on in the election that broke that up in the mid 60s.
▶ 1:12:30And guess what followed that the election of the first republican governor since reconstruction in 1969. I participated in that election not as a voter, but as somebody working out there in the in the hustings. Yeah, I was a weird kid.
▶ 1:12:47And and I remember the debate between the mountain valley republicans and the democrats who controlled everything and who didn't want blacks and poor whites from the western part of the state actively participating. So I show you, Mr. chairman, your bill is not jim crow. I've got to tell you, it was an interesting time to live in, and I'm glad it's passed.
▶ 1:13:15And what we want to do is to make sure american citizens can vote. Mr. noble, from your experiences as an attorney, do you believe that our current penalties for election fraud sufficiently deter bad actors? >> uh, no. And you know what's been going on for 200 years in american elections. And I submitted in my record two written books, one by the former chairman of this committee, the documented countless frauds in the 19th century, another book that documented countless frauds in the 20th century.
▶ 1:13:42So when you look at fraud, you can't look at it in the terms of last week or last year or two years. I mean, it's a competition. People are cheating. >> yeah. So you're you're saying we should enhance the law? >> yes. >> and you think that the make elections great again will help us do that? >> yes. >> I do to Mr. noble, in your experience, what have been some of your concerns with the practice of allowing third party operatives to collect and submit ballots to polling centers, I.e. Ballot harvesting?
▶ 1:14:14>> well, that's why we invented the australian ballot so people wouldn't be harassed. And so they would monitor people's votes. People could vote and go in and vote privately in a secure location where they wouldn't be harassed. And so this sort of advent of all mail balloting and ballot chasing programs or ballot harvesting programs basically returned us to the bad days of old in the 19th century, where poor whites and a few minorities that were allowed to vote were chased and harassed so they could watch their votes. And we invented the australian ballot so people would stop getting paid to vote.
▶ 1:14:45Right. And that and that brought a lot of the protections we enjoy right now in my district, that wasn't. >> just paying them with cash. Sometimes it'd be a bottle of whiskey. >> well. Against the head. >> yeah, yeah. You believe the the make elections great again act will prohibit ballot harvesting nationwide? >> yeah, it'll be a great improvement. >> do you think that makes our system cleaner and more open for american citizens, including african americans and poor whites in the mountains of virginia? >> yes.
▶ 1:15:15People should be allowed to vote in secure locations, uh, from all the harassment that they might get at home. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman, I yield back. The gentleman yields back. The representative from texas, miss johnson, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. You know, our constitution envisions a nation united by the belief that every citizen has the right to participate in our democracy and elect the leaders who govern us, no matter our differences.
▶ 1:15:38And we must respect the fundamental constitutional right of every citizen to cast a ballot, that is, every citizen that may not have a birth certificate, that is, every citizen that may not have a passport, that is every married woman that has changed their name, that is every citizen that lives in a large county where their election office isn't open past 4:00 and they work all day to go register. That is every citizen.
▶ 1:16:06And the problem with this bill is you put all of these administrative hurdles in place to keep citizens from voting, to keep citizens from being able to register to vote. We have cameras. We have one county office in a county of 300 miles where they're working all day. How are you possibly going to go over there in person and provide all of this documentation?
▶ 1:16:30In dallas, texas, we have 4 million people, one election office where you can go to register to vote in person between 9 and 4. When her teacher.
▶ 1:16:44When you're working a shift, how how are you going to get there to do this in person when you are born at home and you don't have access to your birth certificate, and those records don't exist anymore, you're a united states citizen, and you're not going to be allowed to vote when you don't have $150. You can't wait six months to get a passport. Then you don't get to vote as an american citizen in your country, and your government is denying you the right to vote under this bill.
▶ 1:17:11It is un-american. It is unconstitutional, and it is dead wrong. Because the problem is, there's a lot of things that we can do to ensure election integrity. If we really are concerned about people having the right to vote, why can't we submit documents online? Why can't you register online and submit a copy of whatever documentation you have? Why not? Under this you can't. No, ma'am.
▶ 1:17:41You have to do this in person. If we're really committed to making sure that people have the right to vote, then we need to open this up. We need to have an online national registration to vote. Why not? But no, you have to do this. And then the other thing is I'm really, really just personally very troubled, Mr. chairman, over this notion of women having to submit an affidavit at the poll.
▶ 1:18:09So does this mean that we're going to have notary publics at every polling site? Does this mean what does this mean that if you have if you're a married name does not match your birth certificate, then you have to sign an affidavit? Well, where how does one do that? You know, as a lawyer, when you sign an affidavit, it's under oath sworn to by a notary public.
▶ 1:18:34Does this mean that we're going to make and require every election judge, administrator and all of the millions of election sites across this country be notaries? Are we going to make people pay most notaries charge? Are we going to make people pay 10 or $15 to go get their affidavit signed to bring to the poll? That's a poll tax. That's not okay. That's unconstitutional. Passports cost $150.
▶ 1:18:58Are we going to require people to pay $150 to get a passport now to be able to vote? Are we going to waive that fee? If you want to have to get a passport to vote so that you don't have an unethical, illegal poll tax? There's a lot wrong with this bill, Mr. chairman, because you are putting so many roadblocks, so many obstacles in place that not that don't protect security.
▶ 1:19:26But what it is is denying citizens the their constitutional right to vote, which should be our number one paramount concern of this committee is how do we make sure that we do not disenfranchize millions of voters in this country, and this bill does just that?
▶ 1:19:43Miss belle, what would it be like if election judges across this country all of a sudden had to be arbitrators of whether or not a person is a us citizen, and that they have to sort of now interpret documents. What does that look like in the administration of our elections?
▶ 1:20:03>> well, in implementing it in north carolina, and I appreciate that it may not have been as much of a lift in wyoming, but that's one of the things that I think is coming out from this hearing is that there are differences in administering elections. And so we had to go through extensive training to train the 25,000 workers in north carolina's polling places. >> and that's 25,000 just in north carolina, just in the state of texas. >> yes. And that doesn't include the day to day workers in the 100 county offices. Right. Um, so. >> I'm out of time.
▶ 1:20:32We really need more time on issues like this, because this is a significant bill and I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. The representative from oklahoma, miss bass, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And thank you for our witnesses being here today. First, I want to address miss brinson bell. In your testimony, you mentioned that there was no funding tied to this legislation. And I think it's important to clarify that this committee is a authorizing committee. We are not an appropriations committee.
▶ 1:20:58And as someone that sits on both a authorizing committee and an appropriations committee, I'm glad that there's no funding in here because that should be a authorization or appropriations committee jurisdiction. As someone who sits on that committee, I am committed to finding ways to help continue to provide funding. And I have legislation I'm currently working on to do that very thing.
▶ 1:21:19Um, you know, we've heard my democrat colleagues talk about the that republicans want to federalize elections, but I think it's important to remind my colleagues of a bill that was put forward in 2021, the for the people act.
▶ 1:21:35And I want to read a couple of things that the for the people act did that I think would be interesting to those that are listening to this hearing today, automatic voter registration, same day registration, a ban on voter purges in rolls. Uh, it sounds to me like this is federal regulation of elections. And my colleagues, including the ranking member and the two members sitting next to him, voted I on this legislation.
▶ 1:22:04So I think it is disingenuous to say that republicans are looking at federalizing elections when my colleagues on the other side of the aisle were very much in favor of doing something on election integrity back in 2021. Uh, miss boland, I want to start with you. The department of justice asked for michigan to turn over portions of their centralized voter list in order to verify whether or not michigan was compliant with voter lists maintenance rolls.
▶ 1:22:35In response, secretary jocelyn benson, who has testified in front of this committee, wrote the law does not support this assertion. The collection, use and dissemination of private information should be for necessary and lawful purposes. Miss bolton is protecting the integrity of voter rolls and necessary unlawful purpose. >> protecting the voter rolls. Uh, I think protecting the voters is. And so protecting the voter rolls under the definition by benson is absolutely not protecting it at all. It turned over.
▶ 1:23:04>> in recent video, secretary benson says states can and must hold the line in defiance of the doj's attempt to enforce federal election law. Do you believe michigan should defy the department's efforts to instill integrity in michigan's voter laws? >> absolutely not. >> uh, mister, I'd like to throw this over to you. Can you talk a little bit about what's happening in michigan and why you think it's so important for us to make sure that these voter integrity laws are held? Uh. >> uh, yeah.
▶ 1:23:31I mean, the department of justice's ability to get those records for, frankly, 30 years has been unquestioned, right? I mean, when we enforce it at doj, the doj gets it. It's section eight I of the nvra, uh, you know, michigan has, you know, inaccurate voter registration lists. There are certain quirks about michigan that makes it difficult to enforce it there that I can't go through here. Uh, but they have very outdated lists. It's one of several states that do all over the country. I mean, you know, I talked to my testimony about california and other places. I won't go through that here.
▶ 1:24:00But I mean, you know, 21 counties in california removed 11 voters for change of address. I mean, that's not even that's that's it's tough to even take that seriously. So you can extrapolate from that onto michigan, which which is even more defiant than california sometimes. So it's, you know, it's a very inaccurate, I suspect.
▶ 1:24:20>> I think, on that note, um, when I first got to congress, I come from the state of oklahoma, where we have very stringent voter id laws, which will pass by the citizens of oklahoma, uh, back in the 90s. We also have very strict mail in ballot laws. We are required to have it notarized. And in my state in 2020, uh, a lawsuit was filed to actually throw out that notary requirement.
▶ 1:24:42Fortunately, uh, as a former legislator, I was part of the process by which we were actually able to confirm that you had to have some sort of photo id along with the ballot mail in this universal mail in ballot sort of initiative that we've seen in some states is ripe with fraud. When we got to congress, I had no idea what curing a ballot meant. I had never seen a ballot box until I got to washington, D.C.
▶ 1:25:06These are ways that we are using the system for fraud, and I hope that we will address some of these concerns in this legislation and legislation moving forward. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield the balance of my time. >> the gentleman yields back. Uh, the representative from ohio, Mr. carey, is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, I might be biased, um, but, uh, under the leadership of secretary secretary larose, ohio runs its elections better than any other state in the country.
▶ 1:25:36Uh, our state's comprehensive approach prevents fraud, minimizes costs, and upholds the legitimacy of our elections by embracing new technologies, rigorous oversight and common sense policies. Ohio, in fact, has set itself apart.
▶ 1:25:56For example, in our state, we have implemented basic requirements to prove you are a us citizen, a resident of the state of legal voting, age, and more. We have shown we can have transparent and trustworthy elections and deliver those results quickly.
▶ 1:26:19I think our process honestly can be the model nationwide, and I invite my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to embrace our approach in the buckeye state. Well, I could go on and on about ohio. If you come to my office, I probably will. I want to highlight some of the winning policies, and I'm going to go to you quickly, Mr. gray.
▶ 1:26:44And you championed the wyoming voter id requirement is highlighted. Before I ask you to understand, your legislative process is a lot different. What were some of the, uh, hurdles that you faced while you were trying to implement that law and say it rather quickly, because I got a bunch of questions? >> well, thank you, Mr. chairman. Congressman, I think one of the challenges is debunking a lot of the sort of strawman arguments that get put out there.
▶ 1:27:13And we're seeing that on proof of citizenship for registering to vote and these other election integrity reforms. It took us four years to get that through. But eventually I think people saw the light. And I think the 2020 election brought out a lot of these deficiencies that states have in their in their codes. And one of them was that we didn't have a voter id law, and we needed to get that done. And we got it done in 21. >> and your legislative process, was it meet once every two years or how's it, how's it working? Well, yes.
▶ 1:27:43>> it's, uh, once every year. General session, last year's budget session in even years. >> uh, did learn something from your testimony as an ohioan, I didn't realize you referred to as wyomingites. Yes. One thing I did learn, Mr. noodle. Uh, judicial watch has filed lawsuits to compel voter list maintenance, including the removal of eligible voters. Um, under our bill, the make elections great again or h.r. 7300, which I am an original co-sponsor.
▶ 1:28:13Updates voter lists, maintenance requirements nationwide, including by allowing removal if a registrant is discovered to be a non-citizen. How does this change of address issue, uh, have you seen or argued about in court? >> uh, thank you for the question. So the current nvra has very limited removal options. We can do it for change of address, death and a few others. But those are the two big ones.
▶ 1:28:39Uh, there's been restrictions on the ability to remove people directly for, uh, citizenship. And if you recall, in 2024, before the election, there was a big debate that the supreme court resolved in virginia right before election day. Um, you know, the the the mega act takes this maintenance from a periodic, uh, you know, reasonable effort requirement to a more specific requirement. And it's frankly, not all that different than what the congress did in response to the uocava act in 2009.
▶ 1:29:08If you recall, 2008, uh, military votes needed to go out within a reasonable time. And there were a lot of problems that happened in the 2008 election. And in 2009, in response to those problems, congress set a hard deadline for, uh uocava ballots to go out in the move act. And so with this amendment that is being proposed for the mega act, make those changes. >> I, I, I have more questions. But bottom line, it is beneficial to have a uniform baseline standard for voter list maintenance requirements.
▶ 1:29:39I'd like to point out a couple things, because with all the pomp and circumstance and all the things my dear colleagues have said, I went ahead. And I do read the new york times. Some on our side do. Um, I just wanted to read a quote from there. So as we as legislators discuss article one, section four, this is coming from new york times. So it's, you know, pretty factual.
▶ 1:30:03According to my colleagues, article one, section four of the constitution states said that the time that states set the time and places and manner of elections, it also grants congress the power to make laws about elections. That's what we're talking about today, folks. That's all we're talking about.
▶ 1:30:22And to my dear colleagues, some of the some of the other things that I have, and I give me just one more second, some of the letters that have been put in, uh, for the record, against this legislation, all I ask the old phrase judge them not by their words, but by their deeds. Look at the findings of a lot of the groups that are saying to not support this legislation. So with that, happy to be original co-sponsor. Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back.
▶ 1:30:51The representative from illinois, uh, miss miller, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman, for holding this hearing today. And thank you to our witnesses for being here. House republicans are leading the charge to restore faith and trust in our elections. Election integrity should be a nonpartisan issue, but sadly, house democrats have made it clear they have no interest in restoring confidence and ensuring security in our elections.
▶ 1:31:17As abc noted this past weekend, 83% of adults support requiring requiring a photo id to vote, as do 73% of democrat voters. And yet democrat elected officials oppose voter id at every turn. And 14 blue states, including illinois, have refused to implement this common sense measure.
▶ 1:31:44The house will be voting on an expanded version of the save act this week, and house administration republicans, led by chairman steele, have introduced the mega act, which builds on the save act with additional critical reforms. Mr. noble, first, I want to acknowledge and thank you and my colleague, congressman mike bost, for fighting to secure the right of candidates to challenge state election laws in federal court.
▶ 1:32:15As you know, illinois insists on the controversial practice of counting ballots received after election day. And I'm glad that congressman bass challenged to that policy as moving forward on its merits. In regards to a related case, how does watson versus rnc, currently before the supreme court, affect congressional efforts to ensure that ballots are received no later than election day?
▶ 1:32:43>> uh, if you know, there's been some, I guess the supreme court will settle the issue under current law, if we prevail, uh, congress can obviously make new law and be more explicit in what it requires if it acts now. But, uh, the question which arose in boss first and now is in watson is what is the original public meaning of the 1845 statutes as what is election day? >> well, we're going to look forward to that.
▶ 1:33:08When it comes to voter roll maintenance, how do we ensure that states comply with the requirements set by mega act, when many are already non-compliant with the current nvra statute? >> well, I. >> think forced disclosures, which we try to do at judicial watch and then frankly, just follow up with suits. I mean, uh, we are we there's fertile ground and opportunity for us to, uh, sue over. Frankly, we shouldn't have to come to that. But obviously lawsuits help.
▶ 1:33:35Uh, and, you know, when we find their loss, when we find a jurisdiction in violation, it's usually not a close case. I mean, they're not sending out confirmation notices. They're not removing people. It's pretty slam dunk. But, you know, the the partizanship nature of the question makes it very difficult to get anyone to just settle and resolve the questions.
▶ 1:33:56>> representative bohlen, what steps would you like congress to take to ensure that states like michigan and illinois are fulfilling their responsibilities under federal law to maintain clean and accurate voter rolls? >> one is I do think we need to establish a kind of reset these universal base standards. Number one. Number two is, uh, I do think that the post election audits, uh, would help in this regard, the list maintenance.
▶ 1:34:22And I think that we should be working in concert with the michigan legislature at the federal level as well, to make sure that these records are turned over. And the responsibility, you know, in michigan, we have very decentralized, uh, elections. And, uh, well, the secretary of state wants to take over much of this. We do need partners in this. And I do think that that's what this act can do is, again, relegate the authority back to our locals and have the assurance. And if there is funding, I think the funding should be tied to compliance.
▶ 1:34:52And unfortunately, I mean, I know we don't want to tie fundings, but as the chair of appropriations, uh, especially in split government, uh, these are common sense reforms. These are not partizan reforms. We should all be on board trying to allow people to vote. And how has that happened? That's accurate. Voter rolls, verification. >> well, that's what the american people want. I want to thank you all for the great and courageous work that you're doing. Keep it up. Thank you. And I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. This concludes our questions for today's hearing.
▶ 1:35:20I want to thank all of our witnesses for appearing today and your willingness to, uh, to testify. Members of the committee may have some additional questions for you, and we ask that you respond to those in writing. Uh, without objection, each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material into the record or to revise and extend their remarks. There being no further business, I want to thank our members for their participation, uh, that with and without objection, the committee stands adjourned.