▶ 0:51:42Mike. Today's hearing will come to order. Thank you for your patience. Uh one of those days. The Strategic Forces Subcommittee meets today to receive testimony on the policies and programs related to national security space activities. Whitney's favorite subject. Good afternoon to our witnesses and thank you for joining us today. Before us we have Mr. Mark Berkowitz, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Space Mr.
▶ 0:52:08Thomas Ainsworth, performing the duties of Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Space Acquisition and Mr. Brett Markham, Deputy Director of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, Mr. William Adkins, Principal Deputy Director of the National Reconnaissance Office, and last but not least, Lieutenant General Douglas Schiess, the Deputy Chief of Space Operations for Operations U.S. Space Force. Thank you all for being here.
▶ 0:52:38I believe this is the first time testifying for most of you with the exception Mr. Berkowitz, so welcome back. And we appreciate all your time and your service. Unfortunately, once again, we meet to review the Department's budget for space activities, but we do not have the President's budget request for this fiscal year. This lack of information makes our job much harder.
▶ 0:53:02Despite that, there are several topics we can discuss today that are central to how our national security space systems are currently performing and how you all are working to make sure that both our space operators and the joint force have what they need to fight and win in As we have seen recently in Iran, space has become instrumental to every conflict with both space effects and support to the joint force.
▶ 0:53:25As CENTCOM Commander Admiral Brad Cooper described it, the Space Force's capabilities are degrading Iranian capability and helping to protect American forces. Ukraine has also shown us the same lesson repeatedly with jamming becoming routine and battle lines shifting with the availability of space-based All our space capabilities play a vital role when it comes to winning the fight. Without PNT, secure communications or ISR, our modern joint force would not be nearly as effective.
▶ 0:53:56Furthermore, space-based effects and space weapons are needed to break the red kill chains and defend our own space When it comes to protecting the homeland, Golden Dome missile defense architecture has space at its center and is being developed by the Space Force's own general Guideline Gutlein. All these systems are going to require acquisition at speed by committed and skilled professionals who can then work with highly trained operators to deploy these new capabilities on a relevant Mr.
▶ 0:54:25Ainsworth, I'd like to hear from you how the Department is balancing the natural tension between the desire to deploy capabilities as quickly as possible with the need to develop a robust space industrial base that is competitive and innovative. Mr. Adkins, the NRO's rapid deployment of proliferated constellations has clearly proven that the government can move quickly when it chooses to.
▶ 0:54:47I'd like to hear what lessons we have learned and what you would do Lieutenant General Schiess, as the Space Force expands into these new mission that just 5 years ago would have seemed unheard of and how you are working to make sure we aren't thinking about space operations the same way we always have. How are we incorporating technology that allows each guardian to execute high-level strategy and not just following a checklist? Mr.
▶ 0:55:15Markham, how is NGA working with commercial companies to make sure that the combatant commands have not just exquisite intelligence, but also timely actionable information? And finally, Mr. uh everything I've talked about is underpinned by our policies in space. How the administration plans to normalize our approach to testing, training, and operations will be vital to an effective war fighting doctrine in and from space and ultimately our success in this domain.
▶ 0:55:44With that now, I recognize my friend and ranking member, Mr. Moulton, for his opening remarks. I want to thank my friend and the chairman uh for for his remarks and uh welcome our panel of witnesses. I'd like to take this opportunity especially to welcome our new witness witnesses to today's hearing as this is their first appearance in front of the subcommittee, Mr. Ainsworth, Mr. Adkins, Mr. Markham, and Lieutenant General Schiess.
▶ 0:56:08We look forward to working with you this year as operations in the domain continue to become more congested and contested and we build this year's National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2027. Our national security space architecture is continuing a significant transformation and it must transform because life as we know it relies on space.
▶ 0:56:29While most Americans still do not that we have on the satellites that orbit above us, the reality is that nearly everything we do here on Earth relies on capabilities we get from up there. From the GPS app that likely got many of you to this hearing today to commercial satellite communications that are bringing internet to the most rural parts of our country. We have been embarking on a revitalization of our operations in space over the last decade that our country began in the 1960s.
▶ 0:56:56As our military has become critically reliant on space capabilities over the past 40 years, our adversaries have been watching and developing capabilities to counter our systems. The People's Republic of China has over 1,300 satellites on orbit. Over 70% of those in the last 5 years. That's striking. And they include systems that could be used as weapons in space. And as we all know, Russia is developing a space-based nuclear weapon.
▶ 0:57:25If launched, it would be in direct violation of the Outer Space Treaty and if detonated, it would degrade or destroy nearly every satellite in its path. As I've noted before, that includes any space-based interceptor constellation that might be part of the President's Golden Dome vision. One push of a button could destroy trillions of dollars of investment and make low Earth orbit unusable for years.
▶ 0:57:46Obviously, any nation willing to launch a massive nuclear attack on us would not hesitate to quickly take out our The innovation of our private sector is why the United States has been able to maintain space superiority for the past 40 years. As this committee has urged and with a significant acquisition reform that has been legislated over the past several years, the Department is attempting to more rapidly adopt commercial technology for our warfighters. But there is more work to be done.
▶ 0:58:12And as we look to the future, we would be wise to take lessons learned from other domains to ensure we are creating a competitive environment that maintains a healthy industrial base and does not lock us into one company for decades to come like we have we have done with countless other platforms like the F-35. It's no secret that almost every weapon system in our inventory currently depends on space whether for communication, navigation, or intelligence.
▶ 0:58:35The Secretary of Defense has stood on a briefing stage at least once a month this year and said space was crucial to yet another unauthorized conflict. What apparently is a secret though is this Department's strategy when it comes to space. Mr. Berkowitz, you challenged me last week saying that the classified NDS is where the space strategy was addressed. In doing so, you highlighted an issue this committee has had for years, which is that space is over classified. We went back and checked the document and ironically the only mentions of space were unclassified.
▶ 0:59:05However, they did not appear in the public document. If rumors are true that we are going to see a substantial increase in funding to the Space Force in the FY27 budget request, we need to start talking about what we are doing. The American public has the right to know where we are investing billions of dollars and the world should have some accounting of our capabilities as deterrence is only effective if your adversaries have some idea of what you can do to them. Space is is fascinating and infinite domain.
▶ 0:59:31Until recently, we only really experienced it through the lens of science fiction, but in reality, space has been a part of our daily lives as Americans since the dawn of the space race. And our adversaries are keenly aware of that. Our warfighters everywhere, on the ground, at sea, and in the air, depend on space. I look forward to today's discussion with our witnesses on how best to maintain US super superiority in space and how we can address the many concerns that challenge it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. I thank the gentleman.
▶ 1:00:00Well, now moving to opening statements from our witnesses, I would note that your prepared statements will be made part of the record. You will each have 5 minutes to make some opening remarks. Mr. Burt, let's begin with you. After that, I'll recognize Mr. Ainsworth, um Mr. Markham, Mr. Adkin, and Lieutenant General Chess. Mr. Burt, you're recognized for 5 Thank you.
▶ 1:00:22Uh Chairman DeJarlais, Ranking Member Moulton, and distinguished members of the committee, good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity to testify on the department's national security space It's an honor to appear alongside my colleagues, Mr. Ainsworth, Lieutenant Mr. Adkins, and Mr. Markham. America faces intensifying strategic competition in the security environment. Outer space is an increasingly complex and contested war fighting domain.
▶ 1:00:51Competitors have fielded and operate sophisticated arsenals of space, counterspace, missile, and integrated air and missile defense systems. Indeed, as Secretary Hegseth has stated, space is the most important domain of warfare. The fight for space is a fight for the future of the world as we know President Trump is restoring American strength to meet these challenges and secure peace.
▶ 1:01:14He issued an executive order which prioritizes the defense of US vital interests to in and from space by ensuring America's space superiority. The President also issued an executive order to field and operate the Golden Dome for America, a comprehensive next generation defense against the most catastrophic threat facing the United States. The Golden Dome will protect our homeland, citizens, critical infrastructure, and second strike Space is central to US strategy.
▶ 1:01:45Space assets ensure America has the world's most powerful, lethal, and advanced military to protect our interests, deter wars, and if necessary, win them quickly and decisively. Access to and use of space is a US vital interest because of its overriding importance to our security and economic Space systems contribute to all elements of America's national power. We will secure and defend our interests to, in, and from space.
▶ 1:02:13Space assets enable deterrence. They provide domain awareness, including access to denied and hostile territory, indications and warning, launch detection, command control and communications, positioning, navigation, and timing, environmental monitoring, and attack assessment.
▶ 1:02:31The President's Golden Dome for America cornerstone of our homeland defense it is a necessary and pragmatic response to the growing threat posed by ballistic, hypersonic, and advanced cruise missiles, as well as other next generation aerial weapons. The Golden Dome will complement our strategic deterrent. Today, our capability to defend the nation is limited, and its effectiveness is eroding against increasingly advanced threats.
▶ 1:02:59The Golden Dome will rectify this by creating a layered defense in depth of the United States. It will include a space layer for global sensing, data transport, and missile Combined with the prospect of US retaliation, it will strengthen deterrence by denying adversaries the ability to achieve their objectives through coercion or aggression. Moreover, the Golden Dome will save lives and limit damage should deterrence break down. China is our pacing competitor.
▶ 1:03:27We will deter China from a position of not confrontation, with a denial defense along the first island chain. Space capabilities are essential to this effort because they enable the intelligence, command and control, and other war fighting functions needed to project power effectively across the Indo-Pacific region. In fact, space forces have been integral to the planning and execution of operations Absolute Resolve, Midnight Hammer, and Epic Fury.
▶ 1:03:56As Admiral Cooper, the commander of US Space Command, said, space superiority has been a critical enabler to the fight to degrade Iranian capabilities and protect American forces. Our global alliances will remain a strategic advantage if our allies and partners invest properly in their The Department will continue to pursue opportunities for space cooperation to increase burden sharing capacity and We're also supercharging the defense industrial base by cutting bureaucratic
▶ 1:04:26red tape, empowering program leaders to take calculated risks, and leveraging private sector We must accelerate the delivery of critical space capabilities at scale. In closing, with the continued support of Congress, the Department will invest in the national security space programs necessary to achieve peace through Thank you, and I look forward to your Thank you for your remarks. Uh now, we'll recognize Mr.
▶ 1:04:54Ainsworth for 5 Chairman DeJarlais, Ranking Member Moulton, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the state of space acquisition. I am honored to lead a dedicated team of space acquisition warfighters who deliver capabilities with speed, discipline, and agility. After years of laying the groundwork for acquisition reform, we have pivoted from planning to doing.
▶ 1:05:20We are keenly focused on delivering integrated, resilient war fighting capabilities with deliberate speed and unwavering accountability. There are three core themes that drive our daily activities. First, we're accelerating our acquisition transformation focused on delivering integrated warfighter capabilities at speed.
▶ 1:05:38We're breaking down bureaucratic stovepipes by entower by empowering our portfolio acquisition executive warfighters with the requisite authorities to make smart, integrated tradeoffs, and deliver complete, cohesive capabilities into operations. We sincerely appreciate the support and efforts of the subcommittee in the standup and enabling of the portfolio acquisition executives. Second, we have embraced the rapidly growing commercial space industry to harness proven commercial technology as our primary option.
▶ 1:06:08By opening the door to new partners and streamlining streamlining requirements, we leverage the speed and innovation that the private industry offers. This way, we not only become a better business partner, but we also ensure our guardians can quickly access cutting-edge technologies at the speed of relevance. And finally, the accountability is the bedrock principle for our acquisition warfighters. Speed without discipline is not a strategy.
▶ 1:06:35We must hold ourselves and our industrial partners responsible for delivering capabilities at speed, on cost, and on schedule. By executing the authorities that you have granted us, like the other transaction authorities or OTAs and software acquisition pathways, we have accelerated necessary programs. We are also reviewing and monitoring the entire acquisition portfolio to ensure that we're executing properly.
▶ 1:06:59This review has allowed us to place underperforming companies on notice, and when warranted, restructure or cancel programs that fail to meet expectations. The trust of the American taxpayer and the needs of the warfighter demand nothing less from us. We continue to seek out and build new technologies that solidify our preeminent global space superiority. With your continued partnership, we will deliver tangible results and ensure the United States remains the undisputed leader in space. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:07:30Mr. Markham, you're recognized. Good afternoon, uh Chairman DeJarlais, Ranking Member Moulton, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. It is an honor to appear before you this afternoon along with my The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency's mission is to provide world-class geospatial intelligence, or That involves the exploitation and analysis of imagery and geospatial information to describe, assess, and visually depict features and geographically referenced activities on or about the Earth and in space.
▶ 1:08:01As a combat support agency and member of the intelligence community, the GEOINT reproduced provides warfighters, policymakers, first responders, allies, and partners with information that they require to make informed decisions across their mission space and to support national security objectives. Space-based systems play a critical role in supporting the US national security strategy and serve as a key source for the data NGA utilizes to develop and produce produce GEOINT.
▶ 1:08:31That said, the space domain is becoming increasingly contested. Our adversaries are rapidly accelerating capabilities, electronic warfare systems, anti-satellite missiles, and directed energy weapons. Systems intended to disrupt, degrade, and deny access in the space domain. GEOINT is increasingly essential in understanding these threats.
▶ 1:08:52By characterizing adversary ground-based operations, such as space lift capabilities and command and control GEOINT provides insights into emerging threats and on-orbit activities. NGA is also focused on ensuring combatant commands and combatant commanders in the services receive the imagery, data, and analysis they need when they need it.
▶ 1:09:15We maintain embedded personnel at every combatant command and intelligence agency, and we work in lockstep with our mission partners, such as the United States Space Force, United States Space Command, and the National Reconnaissance Office to carry out our mission.
▶ 1:09:30We also have made significant strides with our combined joint mission management center, a collaborative center at NGA headquarters where NGA experts and our mission partners sit side-by-side to satisfy collection requirements, orchestrate a complex constellation of space-based GEOINT assets, including national and commercial systems.
▶ 1:09:52Finally, space-based data is increasingly vital to NGA's responsibility for maintaining the World Magnetic Model, which underpins the accuracy of navigational devices. Through our MagQuest challenge, NGA is pursuing new approaches to collecting magnetic data of the Earth, including through CubeSats scheduled for launch later this year that will provide high-quality geomagnetic data to inform our 2030 World Magnetic Model.
▶ 1:10:21The complexities of the World Magnetic Model serve as a reminder of the importance of NGA's critical mission and its support to our national security In closing, the women and men of NGA remain committed to delivering timely and actionable GEOINT that empowers warfighters and policy makers and strengthens our national security. Thank you and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Atkins for 5 minutes. Thank you. Chairman DeLauro, Ranking Member
▶ 1:10:51distinguished members of the thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today well alongside my colleagues. I'm proud to be here today to represent the nearly 3,000 men and women of the National Reconnaissance As an agency belonging to both the Department of War as well as an element of the intelligence community, the NRO is uniquely positioned to meet the needs of the national security Data collected space by NRO's overhead capabilities, primarily signals intelligence, imagery, and radar,
▶ 1:11:21underpins much of the intelligence community intelligence communities reporting to national policy makers, intelligence analysts, and warfighters. From the high ground of space, NRO systems provide timely, accurate, and actionable data for global situational awareness and support to military Space-based collection is often the only means of gathering intelligence against adversaries who are trying to hide their capabilities or obfuscate their plans, especially in denied territory.
▶ 1:11:52However, the NRO does not do this alone. We work closely with our mission partners across the intelligence and defense communities, including NGA and the Space Force represented alongside me here today, as well as others such as the NRO is in its third year of a transformational pivot to accelerate the fielding of proliferated architectures for some of our key missions.
▶ 1:12:18we have significantly increased our launch tempo over the past 3 years with more than 200 satellites now on orbit to create the largest and most capable government constellation in our nation's Equally important, we're making significant investments in our ground architecture to squeeze the most out of the data we collect. We are also working closely with our mission partners to optimize the tasking of our considerable but still finite collection systems.
▶ 1:12:46The result of this transformation is that NRO systems will be more resilient and provide greater coverage to our partners and users. However, as this committee well understands, our adversaries are investing heavily in counterspace capabilities to deny our nation's strategic advantage in space.
▶ 1:13:04In response, we have made substantial progress fielding our proliferated architectures across diverse orbits, integrating commercial systems, and fielding exquisite collection systems when needed to meet the nation's The NRO's continued success depends on our ability to innovate, invest in our and further strengthen our partnerships.
▶ 1:13:28We will continue to build partnerships across government, academia, industry, and with allied nations, enabling us to leverage innovative technologies and maximize our impact. The NRO continues to greatly benefit from commercial space products, processes, and services. We are expanding our commercial partnerships, we're using commercial spacecraft buses and platforms, commercial launch capabilities, and a range of commercial data sources, including electro-optical, radar, RF, and other phenomenologies.
▶ 1:13:59We combine these commercial feeds with national data streams and deliver the integrated results in a more accessible way to our customers. To maintain our technological advantage and ensure America remains the world's leader in space-based intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, we must continue to invest in leading-edge in areas such as photonics, quantum sensing, advanced materials, and artificial intelligence.
▶ 1:14:24Advances in these and other technologies will allow us to provide better information faster to users, especially warfighters downrange, allowing them to make critical decisions with the best The key to accomplishing our mission is our workforce, which is a blend of government civilians and members of the every military service, and especially the Space Force.
▶ 1:14:47The NRO is a relatively small organization but has an extraordinarily talented and dedicated team of professionals with deep technical competence in systems engineering, acquisition, operations, and program management devoted to delivering on the mission every day, on orbit, on the ground, and everywhere in between.
▶ 1:15:06We take acquisition discipline and financial stewardship very seriously to ensure taxpayers' dollars are wisely One of our program offices was recently awarded the David Packard Excellence in Acquisition Award by the Department of War, and I'm also pleased to report that the NRO earned its 17th consecutive clean financial statement audit fiscal year 2025. In closing, with Congress's continued support, the NRO is well-positioned to provide the systems and capabilities the nation needs for intelligence.
▶ 1:15:36On behalf of everyone at the NRO, thank you for this opportunity to testify, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Atkins. Now, would like to recognize Lieutenant General Saltzman for 5 minutes. Chairman DeLauro, Ranking Member Moulton, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Space Force today. Space superiority is a joint force priority and is critical to joint force success. The Space Force achieves space superiority through space control.
▶ 1:16:04Space control encompasses offensive and defensive counterspace operations across multiple domains to protect the joint force from space-enabled attack and ensure freedom of action in space while denying the same to any potential Space Force operations are foundational to our national security and to the ability of the joint force to deter and, if necessary, defeat our adversaries.
▶ 1:16:25Guardians have provided critical intelligence, missile warning, satellite communications, position, navigation, and timing, and electromagnetic warfare to the joint force in support of Operations Midnight Hammer and Absolute Resolve. Additionally, Guardians are an integral part of our Operation Epic Fury. As you heard Honorable Berkowitz say earlier, the CENTCOM Commander, Admiral Cooper, recently stated, "Quote, our space superiority has been a critical enabler to this fight. Unseen by the world, the Space Force is doing two things.
▶ 1:16:54First, they are degrading Iranian capability, and second, they are helping to protect protect American forces, unquote." In the service, we are aligning resources, mission areas, infrastructure, and Guardians to achieve space superiority. The Space Force is investing significant resources in modernizing and upgrading our missile warning and missile tracking architecture to respond to evolving adversary threats and capabilities.
▶ 1:17:17We understand the critical utility GPS provides military and civil users worldwide, and that GPS is an attractive target for our adversaries. Jamming and spoofing are current and growing threat to GPS. We are modernizing GPS to mitigate these threats. The vital importance of our facilities and infrastructure as weapon platforms cannot be overstated. Our infrastructure is foundational to the launch and operational missions we conduct.
▶ 1:17:43And while we have Guardians currently in harm's way, most of our combat-ready Guardians are employed in place at their home stations executing their mission from their installations. As a service, we must support both of those situations. Space Force launch ranges are indispensable national assets critical to our nation's ability to maintain space superiority and expand the space economy.
▶ 1:18:03Launch rates have drastically increased at our ranges in the recent years and are expected to continue to rise, emphasizing the need to plan, fund, and execute requirements to sustain and improve the ranges and their supporting infrastructure. Finally, space superiority mission requirements will necessitate growing our force size and infrastructure over the next decade.
▶ 1:18:22Whether it's new missions and systems that require new units, resiliency efforts for our current units, or the right-sizing of our Space Force service components to the combatant commands, current operations have proven the critical importance of all of these things. Thank you for the support for the Space Force mission, our Guardians and their families. Semper Supra. I look forward to your questions. I appreciate all your opening remarks and testimony.
▶ 1:18:46We'll now turn to the questioning portion of the hearing, and I'll start by recognizing myself for 5 Uh, Lieutenant General Saltzman, in February, a Vulcan rocket once again experienced an anomaly shortly after One of the four solid rocket boosters experienced a rapid decrease in pressure and burned through another nozzle. Ultimately, the main engines compensated and the payload was successfully deployed.
▶ 1:19:12However, as a result, the Space Force has announced a pause for all future Vulcan launches until the root cause is determined. What is the operational impact of what will probably be at least a 6-month delay to any Vulcan launch. Chairman, thank you for the question. As you know, first off, we we were very concerned about this, but we are very happy that the satellites were placed in the proper orbit and will be able to perform their missions. We are actively looking through what the impacts will be.
▶ 1:19:42As I think you've seen, we will be moving a GPS launch from the Vulcan to to another provider. And then we are actively looking at several launches coming up to see what we can do for Can we extend the current satellites that are on orbit? And what we can do to maybe move other satellites to different providers. But the effect is several, including next generation Geo, Silent Barker, WGS, some NRO satellites, and some space domain awareness. But with my teammate, Mr.
▶ 1:20:12Tom Ainsworth, we are working through that and we will come back to you when we have some more information on that. But we we understand this and we're actively working it. Okay. And then thank you and you may have answered Mr. Ainsworth's question, but I was going to ask what options are being considered by your office and the PAE to mitigate those operational impacts. Certainly, sir. Just to expand a little bit from Lieutenant General Shas, we are looking at different options as far as how we're handling this.
▶ 1:20:42I've given the action to all of the all of the PAEs and PEOs to examine what launches we may be able to distribute or ride-share options, what other options we have to continue to deliver the capabilities we need to deliver.
▶ 1:20:56Additionally, we've taken a very strong step forward with our industrial partners Northrop Grumman, ULA, as well as the parent companies Northrop Boeing and Lockheed, the NRO team, and the Space Force teams working together to go and to try to resolve this issue as fast as possible. The investigation is still ongoing, but we are very focused on getting the fleet up and running. Okay.
▶ 1:21:22Well, sticking with you, with the addition of new mission areas for the service like space-based sensing and targeting and the increased effort for Golden Dome, is the Space Force's acquisition workforce sized appropriately to execute successfully for these programs? So, sir, we we certainly need to grow as we go into the future. We are developing the acquisition workforce to support the efforts that we need to do going But we do look to continued support to expand our acquisition capabilities.
▶ 1:21:53With the new training approach for Guardians, how does that impact the acquisition workforce in terms of manning the program support? So, we're working very closely with the service to ensure that we get all of the appropriate training and we can grow the acquisition workforce the way we need We do benefit from the operational connection and ensuring that our acquisition professionals and warfighters understand what the capabilities and needs are, but we continue to work that with the service. Okay.
▶ 1:22:22We'll turn to the Honorable Berkowitz for the next question. This subcommittee has long advocated for the reclassification of space programs as part of the effort to normalize the use of space and its place in the joint fight. Your predecessor, Dr. Plum, made good progress on this effort. Talk a bit about your approach to this issue and what are your priorities when it comes to classification for space systems. Thank you for the question, Chairman.
▶ 1:22:49First off, I'd like to say that the department is continuing to implement the decisions of the prior administration with respect to classification reform. Beyond that, I'd I'd like to say first off that or second off that what we're really focused on is ensuring proper classification of our programs.
▶ 1:23:10In some cases, that means classifying them to protect intelligence sources and methods, to protect scientific and technological advances, to classify them properly to protect our forces, our their capabilities, and their operations.
▶ 1:23:25And at the same time, we also need to take into account and are doing so doing, the needs of the warfighter to make sure that they can train and exercise like they're going to fight, and make sure that they can plan and deploy and and execute operational As part of that endeavor, we are going to be reviewing our overall space policy with respect to classification and and and hope to continue and grow upon the efforts of the prior
▶ 1:23:56I'm going to cheat just a little bit. My time's expired, but Mr. Atkins, people always have a lot of praise for the NRO when it comes to how you acquire systems. From your perspective, what are the key things that you all do that enable that success and how important is it for you to have Space Force personnel in these jobs? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the question. First of all, with regard to Space Force, it's absolutely critical. They're part of the team.
▶ 1:24:25They're nearly a third of our workforce and and having Space Force Guardians as part of the NRO team provides a a mutual benefit both to the NRO and the Space Force. We get the Guardians to support us across acquisition, operations, intelligence, and cyber. At the same time, the Guardians learn how the NRO does its mission both from acquisition, operations, and supporting the intelligence community.
▶ 1:24:51So, I think it's it's mutually beneficial to both and and we want to continue that partnership. With respect to there's there's sort of three main things that I would say, and I know we're we're over time, but to to summarize real quickly, I think first of all, it's not a matter of authorities. It's a matter of culture, of people, and and and incentives.
▶ 1:25:15And the the three main things are the tone at the top that's set in terms of prioritization of technical competency and expertise and management discipline. The second is a flat organization. The NRO is a very small organization. It's very flat, and the director has control over people, programs, budgets, contracting, security, and is able to move quickly when necessary. That clarifies accountability.
▶ 1:25:39The third piece is that space is a profession and that trying to complete complex jobs can't be done with a high turnover rate. A lot of the people at the NRO have been at their jobs more than 5 years, some more than 10, and even a lot that have been there 20 years or not. The learning curve on space is extremely steep, and it's time on target to study those and develop that kind of tradecraft and experience to deliver those systems. Thank you.
▶ 1:26:08I'm usually a pretty punctual person, but I think it was important to hear that, and I'll show a little latitude to my colleagues. I will now recognize Mr. Garamendi from California for questions. I think I was the last one here. Oh, you were the last one. I'm sorry. I wasn't uh Mr. Norcross, I'm so sorry. Well, you are now recognized. A call to line of scrimmage, huh? Okay. Thank you for being here.
▶ 1:26:36Certainly, a number of issues that I want to talk about. Unfortunately, some of those will be held for our classified meeting. But the one that I think I just want to expand on primarily is we're looking at the budget for space in general and the uh increasing at a rapid pace.
▶ 1:27:04And next year, depending on what numbers you're listening to, that increases even more rapidly. We have a defined industrial base that is growing, but does not have the maturity of much of the other programs and other services.
▶ 1:27:26Given what is on the platter for the next few years, I just want to expand where do we think that industrial base, that mature industrial base, is going to come from? The existing workforce and companies, or are we looking well beyond that?
▶ 1:27:47Because I just I don't see with the numbers that I've seen and the programs that we have I'm not sure it's coming from somewhere else. And I'd like to hear each of your views on the capacity of the industrial base to handle what is coming up. Mr. Berkowitz, if you want to start.
▶ 1:28:13I'd propose to defer to my colleagues who are responsible for acquisition management and and have a much deeper understanding of the industrial base, sir. when policy comes, you have to have a view of the world, and I just wanted to give you that opportunity. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.
▶ 1:28:31I just What I'll say is I believe the industrial base is there to do what what the demand signal is going to be, and in fact, it's grown dramatically because of the the rapid expansion and vitality of our commercial space sector. And the department, as I mentioned, is really seeking to leverage the the innovation, the know-how, and the technology developed by the private sector.
▶ 1:28:57So, I'm I'm very optimistic that the industrial base can meet the department's needs. Mr. Ainsworth. Thank you very much for the question. I I would acknowledge that it is a challenge as we expand out both on the acquisition side as well as within That being said, I have to concur. We have seen rapid growth uh in the commercial space market. Um, there are companies today that weren't around yesterday or even a few months ago.
▶ 1:29:26And so, that continued growth and the continued investment uh both within some of the traditional companies as well as new entrants to the market and private equity and others um have given us the ability to start to address uh the issues and the challenges that we have going forward. Um, so I'm I'm likewise optimistic that we will be able to address it, but it is a challenge that we'll have to work through as we go through.
▶ 1:29:48Just to expand a little bit, do you think uh our education system is graduating or moving on enough of the engineers, the technicians that you believe we'll need? Because again, you're not the only service that is growing. It's across the board. Uh, absolutely.
▶ 1:30:07I think that's another thing that uh with this growth we're able to express that demand signal to students and to the academic community to help support us as we try to build our relationships with the academic community. I believe that's an opportunity uh to grow that as well. Um, again, it it there are limitations to this, but this is a challenge uh that we intend to take on and and hope to deliver. Thank you.
▶ 1:30:34Sir, as the uh functional manager for GEOINT, uh NGA facilitates a requirements-driven process uh on behalf of the community and develops uh statements of capability that we work hand-in-glove with uh in our role uh from a national standpoint to articulate a requirement. Uh, they obviously work directly uh with the uh defense industrial base to develop capability that addresses those requirement sets, so we don't have a direct role in that, but we do certainly influence that.
▶ 1:31:01I would say from an analytic perspective, we do have concern about the population of experts in the uh geomatics fields uh that our universities are cranking out and we have put some concerted effort into trying to get uh talent into our pipeline through internships and things of that nature to be able to exploit the exquisite capabilities that we're putting on space. Mr. Atkins. Thank you for the question. Uh I believe there's more money going into space generally now than ever before. No question.
▶ 1:31:32Uh so, that that bodes well for the industrial base uh and and I think the government on the government side, the national security side, we're competing more contracts than ever. And I think that also bodes well, but there are definitely areas where there's supply chain issues, particularly in uh down in uh second, third, fourth tier suppliers that we have to monitor and and uh and and uh track in the supply chain, so um I think the key thing that the government can
▶ 1:32:02do is to provide a stable demand signal. I think starts and stops on programs that that causes the kind of churn that is actually highly corrosive to the industrial base. So, I think stability in programs is is And I think the government has done uh pretty good job of of leveraging the commercial world, but could do better.
▶ 1:32:28But uh it's managing the industrial base is is critically important. Thank you. It all falls to you. Can you get it done? Because and just uh refresh sort of the the focus is is the increase the volume that we're looking at across the board. You don't have the history of starting and stopping programs with some of our other services. So, history has been kind to you in general.
▶ 1:33:00I think they've had the demand signal, that's why the private sector has grown and certainly has helped us in the bulk but overall capacity is just stunning what we're talking about that has to be produced and Y- yes, sir. Uh kind of outside my uh my area, but I do work with uh uh with Mr. Ainsworth on this and I would say I'm I'm also optimistic of that.
▶ 1:33:25I would say too, the Space Force has several university uh programs that we work for that not necessarily person comes into the Space Force, but actually get some of that experience that might then go into the defense industrial board. Thank you. I exceed my time. Sorry, Chairman. Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Nebraska, General Bacon. He says that loosely. Welcome and thank you for being here. We appreciate your leadership. America wants to own the high ground.
▶ 1:33:55I think we do. We we love our space more than any other nation. It's integral to how we war fight. But the bad guys know it and they're going to do everything they can to deny us space on day one of the war. So, decisions we make today, yesterday, tomorrow are so important to future victory. So, I appreciate your dedication of the space fight that we're going to have or that we're trying to deter so we don't have it. My first question deals with commercial GEOINT. Uh there's a lot more of Uh there's a lot more of it.
▶ 1:34:25It keeps It's going to give us the ability to rapidly surge global collection, extend imagery access to over a million government users, support domestic disaster response, strengthen information sharing with allies and partners, and get through some of the classified barriers that we've had. So, I hope I'd like to know that we're leveraging it to the max extent that we can to augment our actual more classified systems. So, Mr. Atkins, how do you synchronize commercial and national collections for surge operations?
▶ 1:34:55How do you create the synergy that we need? So, um in partnership with NGA, who's our functional manager for GEOINT, uh we look at the architecture as a whole and try to find the best athlete for our collection. So, we try to integrate commercial into the tasking and management and data uh to combine commercial and the national technical means in a way that puts the best athlete against whatever the the target is.
▶ 1:35:24As you clearly point out, commercial has the benefit of being, you know, the shareable data with uh is unclassified data that's shareable with allies and partners and it helps uh increase and complement the coverage of our national systems and that greater coverage allows more revisit time and and better intelligence. So, Still my question. Well, but I'll also go to Mr. Marcom uh next and just say, how are you validating, disseminating commercial imagery fast enough for end users and allies and partners? Mr. Marcom.
▶ 1:35:54Thank you for the question, sir. Uh as Mr. Atkins mentioned, we have uh fully integrated commercial capability into our GEOINT architecture. Uh not only commercial imagery, think pixels, but also commercial data products and services.
▶ 1:36:09Uh we have a team uh that is laser-focused on uh sussing out specific capabilities against stated requirements that we leverage uh directly through contract vehicles, uh we call them Lunar A and B, uh that are focused on uh things like maritime domain awareness, space domain awareness, uh and other high-interest areas uh that are uh combatant commands and some of our other partners across government are interested in.
▶ 1:36:36So, uh as pointed out, uh we uh do not look at it as a as a sensor-driven process. We look at it as a requirements-driven process and what sensors are best utilized to satisfy those requirements. We've also fully integrated commercial into our analytic workflows from a geospatial intelligence perspective so that our analysts are leveraging national systems alongside commercial as well as the proliferated architecture the Department of War is uh sponsoring and the foreign uh information that we are
▶ 1:37:07in receipt of. Thank you. I think it's it's it's it's maturing at a rapid pace. It surely augments our capabilities. General just where where where does commercial GEOINT plug into your operational C2 uh today? Representative Bacon, thanks for the question. We obviously work with our partnership partners at NGA on that.
▶ 1:37:28I think you've you've heard of some of the programs that we're working through and what we do is we have a a great uh cooperation with them when a commander in the field needs uh products that uh maybe need to be on a different timeline, maybe need to be able to share those with and partners. Uh we work with them to see if that product is already there at the right classification level. If not, then we're able to go out to the commercial companies and purchase that uh through the contracts that the NGA does and then provide that to the commander for planning purposes.
▶ 1:37:57And so, we have a great uh relationship and uh we continue to work through that.
▶ 1:38:00Great. Thank you. Got one question for Mr. Ainsworth. You know, the updated GPS ground segment that generation generation operational control system or OCX has been a troubled acquisition program for years. It began around 2010. It was supposed to be operational 2011. Uh it I think it was delayed for about a decade roughly. It went from a $3 billion estimate to a $7 billion cost, up 70% and I think we're still struggling with it.
▶ 1:38:27Can you tell us what went wrong or what are we learning from Please give us insight what happened. Uh sir, I think for uh it'll probably take a longer conversation to walk through a lot of the history. Um I think it's been uh problems in program management, problems with the contractor performance, problems in system engineering uh both on the government and on the contractor side over a number of years.
▶ 1:38:51Um it's a very stressing uh Um we are still considering how to ensure uh we move forward. The GPS capabilities that we get out of 3F um and three and the rest of the constellation are critical to the nation going forward and we will ensure that we have a ground system that works. Okay. I yield. Gentleman yields back. The chair and now recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Representative Bell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ranking member.
▶ 1:39:20To the witnesses, thank you for being here. I'm proud to represent St. Louis, home to one of the fastest-growing geospatial technology ecosystems in the country. With deep expertise across academia, startups, and industry, our region plays a critical role in advancing our national security. St. Louis home is home to roughly a quarter of the national geospatial intelligence agency's workforce.
▶ 1:39:48And just this year, NGA opened its state-of-the-art new campus in North St. Louis. This facility will serve as a hub for talent, workforce development, and innovation across the geospace enterprise that is thriving in the Gateway City. Uh Mr. Markham, the geospatial workforce development pilot program at the University of Missouri-St.
▶ 1:40:11Louis is a strong example of how partnerships between academia, industry, and NGA can build the talent pipeline our national security depends How important are programs like this to meeting future geospatial workforce needs, and how can the department help expand this model? Thank you, sir, for the question. Uh to answer it pointedly, it's critically important.
▶ 1:40:37Uh we have a strategic workforce plan at NGA uh that outlines our critical skill sets and work roles that we need to fill over a 5-year period. Uh the geospatial workforce development pilot program that you referenced recently kicked off in the St. Louis region. While it is nested in one university, it affects the broader ecosystem across the St. Louis region. So, we have a very aggressive uh recruitment uh process uh in the St.
▶ 1:41:05Louis region to acquire the talent that we need, the technical skills. We work with the universities and other institutions to ensure that they are providing the requisite training and developing the talent that would be useful uh in the NGA workforce. Uh and we see it as a role model uh where we uh from elementary school, if you will, all the way through high school into internship programs that then convert into full-time employment with the federal government.
▶ 1:41:32So, to be able to recruit, uh develop, and retain a modern skill set workforce in the St. Louis region is absolutely critical, as a number of our uh activities occur only in the St. Louis footprint, as you're well aware, sir. And in your
▶ 1:41:46very supportive of that. And And in your And thank you for that. In in your statement, you emphasized NGA's commitment to ensuring combatant commanders receive the imagery and intelligence analysis they need, no matter the time or place where they are. You also mentioned bringing together combatant commands for a collection summit last fall and support USINDOPACOM during last month's Keen Edge exercise.
▶ 1:42:11Could you expand on how these efforts have strengthened NGA support to USINDOPACOM, and how they might apply more broadly to other combatant commands? Yes, sir. Uh at a high level, we have a NGA support team in every combatant command globally. Uh that team is there purpose-built and purpose uh focused on satisfying requirements, uh leveraging reachback into our uh headquarters elements, as well.
▶ 1:42:35With respect to the collection summit you referenced in last October, uh that was a proactive uh initiative to bring combatant command J2s and J3s, so the intelligence and the operators, together uh across all combatant commands to have a very focused conversation on the collection requirements process to determine whether or not the collection requirements they had articulated are current and ready, uh and how we were going to get after resolving and satisfying those requirements.
▶ 1:43:04We then took a deeper dive into USINDOPACOM specifically, and participated in Keen Edge, which was an exercise whereby we embedded NGA professionals with subject matter expertise to run through the exercise process, if you will, to uh if you will, what's working, what's not working from a collection requirement standpoint, and being enabled to make adjustments that affect real-world operations.
▶ 1:43:30Similarly, we have already engaged with US EUCOM, US AFRICOM, USCENTCOM, USSOCOM, and we're on a path to touch all of the combatant commands to ensure that we have a process in place that is responsive to their needs. And uh one more question for you, Mr. Markham, and for Mr. Berkowitz, too. how can we better leverage NGA's capabilities to advance our national security? Are there specific areas where NGA's capabilities could be further utilized, and how can Congress help support these efforts?
▶ 1:44:01Sir, uh I would say I would boil that down into three distinct areas. The the workforce uh acquisition, talent acquisition that we've already discussed. But in the mission space, uh it is critically important that we we acquire, we integrate, and we adopt automation, artificial intelligence, and machine learning in very deliberate ways that cut across all of our mission areas, to include our foundation mission, think maps and charts, as well as our analytic mission, which is both regional [clears throat] and functional on a wide range of global activity.
▶ 1:44:32Uh the third bit I would say is focused on acquisition reform. At NGA, we're being proactive in the we are more agile in terms of acquiring uh new technology, and then rapidly inserting that technology onto our workforce in ways that we have not done in years past. Mr. Berkowitz. mindful of the time, I'll just say that I concur with my colleague. I thought he did a very good job of articulating it. Good answer. I yield back.
▶ 1:45:03Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes gentleman from Colorado, Representative Crow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh General, from from enabling missions uh such as Absolute Resolve and Operation Midnight to supporting ongoing operations today, the Space Force has become really the central uh delivering global uh central It's become central to delivering global awareness and decision advantage.
▶ 1:45:33Admiral Cooper said that our space superiority has been a critical uh to Operation Epic Fury. How did space-based capabilities contribute to those operations, and what what role Combat Forces Command play? Representative Crow, thanks. Great to talk to you the other day. Appreciate the conversation. Um Combat Forces Command, which is uh in the the city of Colorado Springs there at Peterson Space Force Base. Uh sir, they uh generate forces uh for our uh service components.
▶ 1:46:04And so, they're the ones that make sure that the forces are either uh they're gone through a what we call a Space Force Generation Process, so that means that they are ready, that they've been trained, and then they're committed to whatever combatant command that they're doing that operation. The majority of those forces are committed to US Space Command, but some of those forces are uh presented in this case to to US Central Command. And then we have service components that execute those operations.
▶ 1:46:28So, uh Combat Forces Command is critical to how we tell how we do uh to our combatant commands. Specifically in asking, you know, what we have done, we have done um incredible what we call missile warning uh capability. Uh the folks that are uh there in the Colorado uh do an incredible job of uh making sure that they know that a missile's been launched, where it is going, and then be able to warn uh the uh soldier, sailors, airmen, marines, guardians, uh and to make sure that they're safe.
▶ 1:46:57They've also provided satellite communications uh from uh folks there at Schriever uh doing communications. And then, sir, some electromagnetic warfare, and we could probably talk a little bit more about this in the in the close session. Great. Thank you. When we spoke last week, we talked the infrastructure needs of the Space Force to continue the fight against Iran and the successful logistics change that the Space Force has established to meet those needs. Um how's Space Force leveraging forward supply chains to assist flight?
▶ 1:47:29Yes, sir, thank you for the question. Uh we have a great uh partnership with the Defense Logistic Logistics Agency, uh and we are working through how we get parts to those folks that are uh down range doing the mission. Uh and uh anytime that we're in a situation like this, there's a prioritization by the combatant commander uh doing that. So, in this case, Admiral Cooper. Uh and then we work through from a Space Force perspective of how we get the prioritization up for the capabilities.
▶ 1:47:55And as I think three of us now have mentioned Admiral Cooper's uh quote, uh you can see that that's a high priority to get that. Uh but we are uh putting forces uh putting parts forward in other locations, and then using them to get to the to the folks that need them. Um we're continuing to learn on that as we grow out our logistics uh capability in the United States Space Force. Uh but uh the team has done a really good job making sure that the forces forward have exactly what they need to be able to get the mission done.
▶ 1:48:20Uh you know, and we've despite the continued investments in data platforms across the department, we're still seeing challenges in sharing operational data across uh services and combatant Uh the Department of the Air Force's Unified Data Library has demonstrated success in aggregating and operate uh space domain awareness data at scale. How has the Space Force utilized the UDL, and what benefits have you seen as it's come online? Uh yes, sir, thank you for the question.
▶ 1:48:51Uh the UDL is a great uh technology uh that we can put uh information uh specifically space domain awareness information at different classification levels, and then it allows, if you are cleared to that classification level, to go in there and get that information. It's allowed us to put it to the to the lowest level to be able to get the information all the way up to the to the highest levels as well. It also because of the different classification allows us to work with our mission partners and also our allies and partners to be able to provide that information.
▶ 1:49:21So it's it's doing great. We need to continue to work on that as we continue to bring on more sensors for space domain awareness, but it is it is working really well. Um and Mr. Adkins, I was encouraged to read in your testimony that you said quote the NRO continues to greatly benefit from commercial space sector advances in products, processes, and services. Uh unquote including electro-optical data.
▶ 1:49:46This is especially helpful considering the NRO's efforts to cut commercial imagery funding last cycle with little regard for the downstream Uh imagine how much more difficult planning for Epic Fury, Midnight Hammer, or Absolute Resolve would have been without ready access to imagery of what's happening in those contested environments.
▶ 1:50:09And it's also vital to maintain in space sensing capabilities as on-orbit warfare continues to advance and is becoming a foundational element of modern warfare. I hope that your testimony can be construed as support for robust funding of the commercial image budget and look forward to working with you to get that funding across the line. Great. Thank you, sir.
▶ 1:50:34Uh Commercial data is critical to the NRO mission electro-optical and radar for the GEOINT mission. We also collect RF commercial RF data or purchase commercial RF data to support NSA and it's absolutely critical to extend the coverage of of our missions.
▶ 1:50:53I think the challenge is trying to right-size the demand and the requirement for data across the the entire enterprise and the demand signal coming from uh the functional managers and the combatant commands to make sure they get the products that they need. So we're working with NGAO and GEOINT and NSA on the RF to make sure that we have the right amount to right-size that. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentleman yields back.
▶ 1:51:21The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Whitesides. And just so you know, I went over on my time, so we've been allowing everyone else to go over a little bit. So if you need to feel free to do so. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll try to keep it short cuz I'm sure we all want to get to the um uh close session. First of all, let me just say thank you to all of you, Mr. Adkins. It's great to see you. We worked together years and years a terrifyingly long time ago, but your professionalism as a group is a credit to the nation and and we're so grateful General for your leadership as well at this time.
▶ 1:51:51I'm going to focus on things that are public relevant. First of all, I just want to make a statement which I say in each of these which is I think it is a very important the United States continue to act as a responsible actor in space. You all are sort of the keys to that and there are series of policy and technical choices that you will be confronted with and are confronted with daily.
▶ 1:52:11And I think as you go through those choices, making choices that bias towards the long-term sustainability of space particularly to moment when we have, you know, potentially an exponential growth in objects in space is crucial. I don't think I need to explain that and I think you all are acting in the right way, but that is an top-level policy goal that I think we should support. I want to talk about wildfires and the intersection between space and wildfires. First launch and then sensing. I'm concerned about wildfires around our two national launch sites.
▶ 1:52:41Vandenberg suffered the Canyon fire in 2016 which burned over 12,000 acres. Other notable small fires include the 2024 Santa Lucia fire and the 2025 Orion fire. At Kennedy or I should say Patrick as recently as March 2025, we saw two lightning sparked fires that burned nearly 700 acres in the Merritt Island refuge including a 450 acre fire inside the secured KSC perimeter. We only have two orbital launch sites suited to launching our most sensitive military and intelligence payloads.
▶ 1:53:09Our national security depends on assured access to space. A megafire along the lines of what we saw in Los Angeles in January 2025 could cause enormous damage to our launch sites and thus our national security. Developing solutions to this challenge are a small cost compared to the challenge of not being able to access space during a conflict with a peer competitor and would also also offer tremendous benefit to the security of Americans across the west and the southeast. I have been on a something of a mission to get the DOD to see this as crucial to its mission.
▶ 1:53:38And this is really a question for anyone, but perhaps General, you might want to make a comment on this. I'd love to get your comments and frankly your support in acknowledging that wildfire is is a serious risk to space launch operations and perhaps your advice and support as we seek to mobilize the resources and attention required to address this challenge. Representative Good, good to see you again. Thank you for the question.
▶ 1:54:01And been at both locations several times in my career, we do understand the threat from wildfires at both of our launch and we take that very seriously. Both locations firefighters made up of civilians, contractors, and military members that do that for us. We also have great relationships with the local communities to do that.
▶ 1:54:24And we also have environmental folks on the teams that look at you know, prescribed burns and different things to make sure that we are safe as possible to do that. But both of those Delta commanders that are responsible for both of those launch bases think about that on a regular basis and they are they you know, as as winds get up as temperature gets up, they they make sure that they are doing everything they can to keep those two launch bases safe. Thank you for that.
▶ 1:54:50I think one thing that I think would be interesting is if we can take technologies from other parts of DOD to apply to the wildfire problem. Problem the DOD may be a leader in addressing that challenge in a way that the have trouble with. Turning attention to a different technology area, I want to talk about the Fireguard program. You're probably all familiar with it. It uses imagery from government assets to help frontline firefighters in the US. It's a crucial program. Would love to get your sense of its importance.
▶ 1:55:20It's very important to my constituents and if any of you'd like to comment on that, I'd love to hear your Sir, thank you for the question. At NGA, we have a long history of support to humanitarian assistance, disaster response. Uh that includes servicing wildfire problems that I'll call it typically on the west coast as you point out. We have been great partners with FEMA when it comes to a mission assignment for formal designation.
▶ 1:55:50We've also worked very closely with the National Interagency Fire Center, NIFC. Uh that is a recipient of activity that then they work with the states and local elements to be able to scope fires and target I'll say response efforts in a responsible and meaningful way.
▶ 1:56:07Uh right now, they are still receiving that and it is still to my knowledge being applied effectively in addressing fires as they're breaking out uh on the west coast in particular, but more broadly as needed. Yeah, that that program is crucial. My understanding is that it detected the Palisades fire in Southern California which as you probably know burned down thousands of homes about 15 minutes before any other source. And so I just emphasize that that's a crucial program for my constituents.
▶ 1:56:36I'll save the rest of my questions for the classified session. Thank you and I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes ranking member Moulton for his questions. Thank you very much Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Um Over the past several years whether it's in Ukraine or the Middle East, we've seen the incredible proliferation of commercially available satellite imagery. And it's pretty remarkable what's what's available.
▶ 1:57:00Of course, we want to make this more available at the tactical level to our Uh there are certainly advantages to the general transparency that it offers. But we've also seen particularly with Iran how it can be a real problem and that all this imagery that used to be classified is now publicly available and can be used against us allowing our adversaries to tell where our troops are for example. So what are the kind of safeguards that we should be put in place?
▶ 1:57:26And what are you doing between the DOD and the intelligence community to work with these providers, many of whom have contracts with the US government to make sure we have better control over I'll start off. So as we were discussing earlier, commercial data is absolutely critical to the NRO, to the GEOINT mission, to NSA. And we have a strong partnership with our commercial providers.
▶ 1:57:57Our their CEOs meet with our leadership quarterly. We have an ongoing dialogue. Uh it's a very strong partnership and I think our commercial providers understand the power of their data as you point out. They understand the grave consequences and potential implications. So But but if but if they did, we wouldn't have had these incidents where they've disclosed things that I think there's general agreement in the national security community we didn't want disclosed.
▶ 1:58:25Well, I I think where the the industry is relatively new. We've been learning as a as the industry and the government as to the power of commercially available high-resolution imagery.
▶ 1:58:40And the the providers understand the power of that data and when the conflict in the Middle East began shortly after that, the commercial providers recognized that it was a potential national security issue of exposing sensitive military operations and voluntarily offered to limit dissemination of the of data in sensitive areas where our forces Mr.
▶ 1:59:09Atkins, I'm glad that they realized that after the fact. But if we had actually had plans for whatever the hell we're doing in Iran and we'd actually moved troops into position beforehand, which we're now obviously doing to try to catch up with the situation, then a lot of those troops would have been endangered while you guys were figuring this out.
▶ 1:59:28So don't you think it would be good to have some safeguards in place for the Well, I I think the relationship that we have with the industry at this point um in the is working and that they're working with us to seeking guidance from the
▶ 1:59:43position is that there should not be any guidelines. We should just account we should just count on their goodwill. I think
▶ 1:59:49Cuz I think you got to be able to I I think you got to be able to go to a Marine platoon commander on the ground and say don't worry, we've got your back. We're just counting on these four profit companies and their goodwill, even though they're learning on the job as you just I don't think that's good enough as a former Marine lieutenant.
▶ 2:00:11Well, sir, we're we're working with the industry to provide them the guidelines on what areas are sensitive to to allow them to limit the
▶ 2:00:20Well, let me just say we would like to see those guidelines. We'd like to make sure that everybody has them available because right now you're just counting on goodwill to protect our troops. I don't think that's a very good force protection plan. Uh Mr. Markham the work of the NGA has been in the spotlight recently because of the attack on the girl's school in Iran. Do you have any idea what went wrong? Sir, thank you for the question.
▶ 2:00:51we are aware that there is an ongoing and open investigation being conducted by United States Central Command and as a combat support agency, we are fully supporting consistent with the Department of War's guidance in that That's great. I asked you if you have any idea what's going on. Sir, I cannot comment on an active and ongoing investigation. When do you think you will be able to comment? Sir, we will wait for the results of the
▶ 2:01:17Do you have any idea what the timeline for that investigation is?
▶ 2:01:19I do not, sir. I would have to refer you to the Department of War. Well, I would just say that we ought to find out what went wrong. And I think it's easy for people to walk will write this off cuz they are our adversary's kids. But they're little girls. Do you have sons or daughters? If my daughters were killed in an airstrike, no matter by whom I'd certainly want a better answer than that and I'd want it soon.
▶ 2:01:50I think that our allies need to be able to trust that we know what we're doing. And frankly, our adversaries ought to be able to trust that we know we're actually going to hit their targets and not miss like we clearly did here with tragic Thank Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields back and Lieutenant General Shash, you get a bonus question.
▶ 2:02:17Um this committee established the moving target indication working group to in part uh to develop the processes and procedures for tasking, collection, processing and exploit exploitation and dissemination of the data collected by moving target indication systems. You are the co-chair of the working group along with the J8. How is this process going from the DOD perspective? Chairman, thank you for the bonus question. I appreciate that.
▶ 2:02:46Uh but it is going really well. I got into my new position in November and the new J8, Lieutenant General Steve Whitney got into his position around the same time. We have met several times with the full group and we meet monthly but just the two of us with our teams and it continues to go well.
▶ 2:03:05We're working with all of our partners at NGA, NRO and across the Department of War and we continue We know that we owe a response or update to to the committees and we're working through to bring that either in a briefing or on a paper but the team's working really well together. Very good. And Mr.
▶ 2:03:23Markham, I didn't mean to skip over you during my questions and so I'll just from your perspective at NGA, how has this process I think sir and I apologize the specific process? It was the same question for General Shash. I could read it again but she gave me print about this big and I can barely read it. Um but I can read it again. If you would, please, sir. Sorry.
▶ 2:03:52It's the the target working group uh with J8. I am Okay. Sir, I can answer that the NGA has representatives in our MTI working group but also I have a great relationship with Lieutenant General Breedlove Camp and we've discussed this several times. director of sources in in in that as well and so uh good relationship with the NGA. Okay.
▶ 2:04:22In fairness to you, Mr. Markham, that was a tough question for me to even read as far as you to follow so we'll uh Thanks, sir. we'll give you a break on that. Okay. Uh so that pretty concludes the open portion of the hearing. Uh it we can reconvene for the closed session at 5:00 in 23:37. That gives a little comfort break and I think there was a few members that wanted to attend the closed session so give them a little extra time to arrive.
▶ 2:04:52The open portion of the hearing is now