▶ 0:16:56Good morning. The subcommittee on indian insular affairs will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimonyor an oversight hearing entitled tribal natural resource development barriers and successes under committee rule four f. Any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member.
▶ 0:17:21I therefore ask unanimous consent that all of the members opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they're submitted in accordance with committee rule three o. Without objection, so ordered. Ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from alaska, Mr. begich, be allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning again, and thank you to each of our witnesses for being here.
▶ 0:17:50Developing an energy project on tribal lands can require nearly 50 federal approvals across multiple agencies. Off reservation on private lands. That same project may require less than five. That's a ten fold difference in bureaucracy and burden. And that difference has consequences. Tribal lands contain substantial energy and mineral resources.
▶ 0:18:14An estimated 15 million acres hold these resources, yet only about 2.1 million are currently in production. That gap is driven in part by the federal approval structure governing development on tribal lands. Because tribal land is typically held in trust, projects require federal involvement at multiple stages. Land status and title leasing rights of way. Environmental review and operational permitting.
▶ 0:18:43As the number of federal hurdles grows, delays accumulate not necessarily because of any single decision, but because of how the system operates as a whole. That is the system that the crow tribe, which is working to develop its significant coal resources. The southern ute who who have oil and gas reserves, and calusa indian energy, which operates a tribally owned energy system, are each navigating today.
▶ 0:19:10When timelines stretch, projects can lose financing. Interconnection agreements or access to infrastructure. In some cases, delays will entirely kill the viability of a project. Now, congress has taken some steps to address some of these challenges. In 2005, we authorized tribal energy resource agreements, or tariffs, to allow tribes to assume greater control over certain energy development activities under the tariff framework.
▶ 0:19:39Tribes can enter into agreements without case by case secretarial approval. Once a terra is in place, however, that authority has seen limited use, in part due to the complexity of the approval process and the requirements placed on tribes seeking to enter into these agreements. More than 20 years after terra's were authorized, the southern ute tribe, who we will hear from today, are on track to become the first tribe to use the tariff framework.
▶ 0:20:06And I look very much forward to hearing about that experience. More recently, the trump administration has taken aggressive action to unleash american energy dominance, cutting through bureaucratic delay, streamlining, permitting and refocusing agencies on domestic production. In this committee, through chairman westerman, speed act has advanced complementary reforms to reduce duplication and to provide greater predictability across federal permitting processes.
▶ 0:20:35Today, we are going to hear from witnesses who have worked directly to develop energy and mineral resources on tribal lands. Their experience will help the subcommittee better understand where delays occur, how agencies interact, and what changes could make the process more workable. The question before us is this when a tribe chooses to develop its energy resources, does the federal process operate in a way that allows that project to proceed in a timely and predictable manner?
▶ 0:21:04That is what we're here to examine. I want to thank each of our witnesses again for being here today, and I look forward to this discussion. At this time, the chair will now recognize the ranking minority member for her opening statement. >> we've gotten you a different kinds of little. I navigated. These are new. Okay. Thank you so very much. I want to thank each of our witnesses because you have traveled.
▶ 0:21:34I mean, distance is very far. I have taken some of the connections that some of you have taken to get here. And I know it takes time, but sharing your stories of what works, where the frustrations are, where the opportunities are, are so key for us to be able to do our work because there is incredible opportunity, uh, on tribal lands for, uh, resource development and that energy resource development ranges
▶ 0:22:06From coal development to geothermal oil and gas, renewables, solar, just the range of it. And I think what's really important to recognize is that tribes sit at the center of the decision making process on what they want to do with their energy resources.
▶ 0:22:25Uh, and we have the southern ute tribe, which went through all of the, let's call it the hassle of trying to get that first terra implemented. I worked on trying to get a terra implemented and it was almost like you you throw up your hands because we placed so many obstacles in the way of the tribes to be able to utilize those. And so thank you for having the patience to getting that done.
▶ 0:22:54But we also need to acknowledge that tribes should have the ability to utilize all their natural resources. Not everybody is blessed, uh, with fossil fuel resources. I'm from new mexico. I represent both the apache nation, the navajo nation, who have resources like coal and oil and gas that can be developed.
▶ 0:23:17But I also represent tribes, including the jicarilla apache nation, which and the navajo nation, which have recently put up huge solar farms, uh, other tribes which want to put up, uh, wind farms. We need to let everybody do what is best and what resources they have.
▶ 0:23:34And my concern is that this administration acts in a way that denies tribes and tribal organizations the ability to utilize renewable energy to benefit their communities and others around them. Republicans used to say that they were an all of the above strategy, but now we see an administration putting up arbitrary barriers to renewable energy.
▶ 0:23:57Last year, trump took away billions of dollars with a b from the inflation reduction act by terminating the epa's solar for all program. That was $500 million specifically for tribes to take advantage of opportunities that come with clean energy.
▶ 0:24:17At the doe, trump clawed back millions that tribes could use for grid resilience, important programs that would directly benefit tribes looking to provide power both for family homes and to sell off reservation at the department of the interior. The most recent attacks on natural resources came this month, with the president's fiscal year 2027 budget request.
▶ 0:24:42The budget cuts natural resources management at the b I a by over $230 million $230 million cut. That includes a $38 million cut to tribal forestry, a $15 million cut to water resources, an $11 million cut to energy and mineral rework. It zeros out programs like the tribal climate resilience program.
▶ 0:25:10Now, I know that we have incredible bipartisan support in congress to fund these programs. It's what we did last year when we saw the trump administration try to do away with these programs, and we came together on a bipartisan support, uh, basis and passed a budget that renewed these programs.
▶ 0:25:34And I look forward to doing the same, because what you're going to tell us today is going to emphasize why they are so important, even if that's not why you came. We're going to remember it's like, these are the kinds of things we do. And while you do those, we need somebody actually at the bia who's going to be able to move that paperwork, who's going to be able to get it done. It doesn't happen without that coordination. And it takes, uh, it takes somebody at the desk. It takes those boots on the ground.
▶ 0:26:02And so I know that the work you do at both strengthens tribal sovereignty. It creates jobs. Uh, it develops the energy economy that we need for our entire country to grow. Tribes represent a smaller percentage of our land base, but a larger percentage of the opportunities for energy development. I look forward to hearing your stories. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield back.
▶ 0:26:37>> the gentleman yields. Uh, at this time, we will introduce the witnesses for our panel. The chair would now like to recognize Mr. downing from montana for 30s to introduce the witness from his district, Mr. downing. >> well, thank you, Mr. chair and madam ranking member, for holding this. Thank you for the witnesses for being here. And I gotta tell you, with, uh, it's an honor to introduce our witness, uh, chairman frank white clay.
▶ 0:27:03I've known the chairman for probably close to ten years now and watched him, uh, raise, uh, rise up in the ranks of being a leader with the crow tribe of indians in montana. And I'll just tell you, I've met very few leaders that understand the issues of their people and advocate for the advocacy and well-being of his members in the crow tribe.
▶ 0:27:24Uh, he was elected in november 2020 and, uh, on a platform of restoring government accountability and delivering sustainable growth across his communities. And he brings significant experience as a tribal leader in managing the crows natural resources development, including navigating regulatory hurdles for mining the region's substantial coal reserves. Uh, chairman clay, it's great to see you. Thank you for traveling to dc, and I look forward to your testimony today. On that I yield.
▶ 0:28:00>> the gentleman yields. Thank you, Mr. downing. At this time, it's my pleasure to introduce a witness from colorado's third congressional district. Uh, andrew gallegos is a council member for the southern ute indian tribe, where he plays a key role in advancing the tribe's priorities on economic development, natural resource stewardship, and self-governance.
▶ 0:28:19He brings a practical, on the ground perspective shaped by the realities facing tribal communities in the west, particularly when it comes to energy infrastructure and responsible land management. His leadership reflects a strong commitment to sovereignty, long term economic strength and to partnership with federal and state stakeholders. I appreciate you, council member gallegos, for being here today and sharing your insights and experience.
▶ 0:28:47Our next witness is miss talia martin, co-executive director of tribal energy alternatives in oakland, california. Welcome, miss martin, and last but certainly not least is Mr. ken amman, chief operating officer of calusa indian energy in colusa, california. Welcome, Mr. ramon, let me remind the witnesses that under committee rules, they must limit their oral statements to five minutes.
▶ 0:29:14But your entire opening statement will appear in the hearing record to begin your testimony. It should be pretty self-explanatory. Please press the talk button on the microphone in front of you. We do use timing lights when you begin the lights going to turn green. Green means go. When you have one minute left, the light will turn yellow and at the end of five minutes the light will turn red.
▶ 0:29:35And I would ask you to please wrap up your statement or the answer to the question as quickly as you can, and I will also allow all witnesses on the panel to testify before member questioning begins. So with that, the chair now recognizes chairman white clay for five minutes. Mr. chairman. >> thank you. Ranking member, chairman, ranking member and members of the subcommittee. My name is frank white. I serve as elected chairman of the crow nation.
▶ 0:30:03The people I come before you today on behalf of more than 14,000 enrolled members who call the crow reservation home, I want to begin by telling you who we are, because our history is inseparable from the barriers. I am here to describe the people. I've lived along the yellowstone river in what is now south central montana, since before there was a united states. Our connection to this land is not a property interest.
▶ 0:30:30It is our identity, our language, our clan system, our ceremonies, and our way of life are all formed here. The treaty of fort laramie in 1851 recognized a crow homeland of more than 38 million acres across what is now montana and wyoming. Today, after a century and a half of sessions and allotments and administrative reductions, our reservation is 2.3 million acres. We have lost more than 94% of our land base.
▶ 0:30:59The united states itself recognized as ours. And yet on that reduced land, we have built a government, a culture, and a community that endures. Our ancestors made supreme sacrifices to keep us on this land. They negotiated with the united states in good faith. They fought to protect what was left. Every decision I make as a chairman, I make with their voices behind me.
▶ 0:31:21Every decision this committee makes about tribal natural resources development lands in our communities, on our families, on our elders, on our children. That is why we are here, not as supplicants, but as a sovereign nation, asking that promises made to us be kept. For more than four decades, the mine was the economic engine of the crow nation. It was not just mine.
▶ 0:31:49It was a community institution that paid for our police department, paid for elder services, scholarships that sent our young people to college and brought them home again as teachers, nurses, engineers, accountants, families plan their lives around it. Children grew up knowing there would be good work waiting for them. The mines expedited closure driven by federal regulatory pressure and market conditions outside of our control to not just shut down a business, could a community off at the knees.
▶ 0:32:20Approximately 275 crew members lost their jobs, jobs that paid fam family sustaining wages in a region whose jobs do not grow on trees, tribal revenues from royalties and taxes collapse by 35 million. Our unemployment rate, already far above the national average, climbed to a significant percent. And the human cost, the cost you cannot put a spreadsheet was worse.
▶ 0:32:47Families who had been self-sufficient for generations suddenly could not pay utility bills. Young men and women who grew up expecting to work at the mine like their fathers. Grandfathers now see no future on the reservation. Some have left, others have turned to despair, to addiction to fentanyl and methamphetamine, that the cartels are too eager to supply. I've said this before, before the committee that the crow reservation has become an unwitting corridor for drug trafficking.
▶ 0:33:15I'll tell you plainly the closure of the mine made that problem worse. When you take away a community's economic foundation, you do not just create unemployment, you create vulnerability. You create conditions that predators exploit. And I want the committee to hear this clearly. The mine did not close because croco was no longer needed. It did not close because the crow nation fell in its stewardship. It closed because the federal permitting and regulatory environment made it impossible to sustain.
▶ 0:33:44When washington decides that tribal resource development is too difficult to permit, it is a crow. Children who go without compounding to the damage to crow nation was wrongfully placed on the treasury do not pay list by the biden administration based on invalid debts for critical period that blocked our access to federal grants and pandemic era programs we were otherwise eligible for. My administration has cleared the issue, but will never recover those lost awards.
▶ 0:34:16That is money that should have gone to our people. It never has, but it's gone now. The second barrier is the national environmental policy act. Let me be clear. The crow nation supports environmental review. We have been stored the lands for centuries, and we intend to be stewards for centuries more. Thank you. >> thank you, chairman whiteclay, for that testimony.
▶ 0:34:43Uh, next, I would recognize councilman gallegos from the southern ute indian tribe for five minutes. Councilman. >> good morning. Thank you. Chairman and ranking member fernandez and distinguished members of the subcommittee. My name is andrew gallegos. I'm a member of the southern ute indian tribal council. Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today.
▶ 0:35:04Our tribe is in a good position to discuss tribal energy, as our reservation sits right on top of the san juan basin, a rich source of natural gas. In the early 1950s, the tribe began leasing to companies to develop our minerals in 19. In the 1970s, we began taking a more active role. We used new federal laws to better negotiate mineral development and agreements.
▶ 0:35:28In the 1990s, we bought a gas production company and a pipeline company, and we started operating our own wells. As you can imagine, we encountered a number of barriers during that time, but we also had our share of successes. Energy development has given us economic strength. We've provided our memberships with jobs, health insurance, and a college education. The tribe is the largest employer in la plata county to increase financial stability with diversified.
▶ 0:35:57By investing in real estate and non-energy businesses across the country for the last 25 years, our message to congress has been the same. The united states must remove the barriers it has created and allow tribes to voluntarily take on the responsibilities normally performed by federal agencies like the bia. Congress removes some of those barriers in the 2005 energy policy act and the hearth act.
▶ 0:36:20In 2012, the hearth act allowed tribes to approve some land leases without bia review and approval, as long as the tribe had federally approved leasing regulations and environmental review process. After the bia approved our regulatory regulations and environmental processes in 2023, we finally, finally approved business, agricultural, residential and renewable energy leases on our land.
▶ 0:36:43Even with the hearth act, however, we still could not approve leases for conventional energy development. We also couldn't approve rights of way to fill those gap our next option was to enter into a tribal energy resource agreement, or tera, under the energy energy policy act, a tera gave us authority to negotiate energy realty, leases, business agreements and the rights of way without meeting, without needing the bia to review and approve.
▶ 0:37:11In theory, taros were a great option, but the application process was burdensome and it was unclear what function a tribe would be allowed to take on. Congress passed amendments in 2017 that improved the process, and as mentioned in 2025, the southern ute indian tribe became the first tribe to submit a tera application, and we expect interior to approve the tera early next month.
▶ 0:37:38However, even with the tera, we still need congress to grant authority to approve approve non-energy rights of way like roads and fiber optic lines. We also needed congress to address the suffocating impact of nepa when applied on tribal lands, passing the speed act would improve the tribe. The tribe with a very useful tool. To be clear, we spent significant resources to ensure that energy development on the reservation is done while protecting the land.
▶ 0:38:05This is not only the right thing to do, but it's our duty to the land. The problem is tribal lands are held in trust by the united states. So all land use activities on tribal land requires federal approval. That means indian tribes are subject to the same nepa process that applies to federal public lands. As it stands today, nepa allows people with no connection to our land to delay or defeat tribally supported projects for the use of tribal trust resources.
▶ 0:38:31The speed act would help resolve this issue for any agency action that affects the use of tribal resources, court review would be limited, but in closing, the tribe appreciates congress's actions to pass laws to increase tribal authority over how to use our own lands.
▶ 0:38:50The tribe supports the speed act language that limits the ability to impede or legally challenge tribal approved projects located on tribal trust lands from opponents with no connection to the area, and we will continue to urge similar legislation that supports self-determination and developing our natural resources. Thank you. >> thank you, councilman gallegos, for that testimony. The chair now recognizes miss martin for five minutes, miss martin. >> it's good day.
▶ 0:39:17Chairman, ranking member leger fernandez and distinguished members of the committee. Uh, thank you for this opportunity to speak. My name is talia martin. I'm an enrolled member of the shoshone-bannock tribes of fort hall, idaho. On my maternal side, I am. My family's are wheezes and sandy's are the rick allen of the boise valley or the sheepeaters and salmon eaters.
▶ 0:39:40But today I come to you as the co-executive director and representative of the tribal energy alternatives, which is an affiliate of grid alternatives. Uh, t is a native led organization. We're a nonprofit governed by an all native board of directors. Most of our staff also come from the tribal communities that they serve.
▶ 0:39:59Our mission is to partner with tribal nations across the country to bring renewable energy benefits that advance their energy sovereignty goals and reduce energy costs and strengthen community resilience. Since 2010, we have partnered with over 75 tribes in over 19 states to provide tens of millions of dollars from philanthropic funding and state and federal for tribal energy projects.
▶ 0:40:25We've also installed over eight megawatts of solar energy on residential homes, tribal government buildings and community facilities, while also investing in the local capacity building. It's evident in our workforce development work, where we provide solar education and trainings during installs and with standalone workforce development services benefiting over 500 tribal members in total, we truly believe the staff at t that the
▶ 0:40:55Energy development should deliver direct benefits to tribal communities, including lowering energy costs, improving reliability and preserving culture in the ways of life that strengthen tribal sovereignty. Uh, we hope that the tribal natural resources development also recognize that the energy system is forever changing. We're moving toward a more distributed, electrified and dynamic grid, and we'd hate to see the shift leave tribes and risk them being left out of these system changes.
▶ 0:41:23For us, electricity is about being affordable, reliable, and accessible. In our work with tribal partners, we consistently see barriers that limit the ability to develop energy projects on tribal lands. Some of these limited, limited resources are capital, geographic constraints and infrastructure constraints, as well as dueling priorities between the tribe and utility, as well as challenges in capturing federal incentives.
▶ 0:41:54These reflect structural gaps in how energy policy and financing utility systems are designed. They were not built with tribal communities in mind. Across our work, we have supported tribal communities in deploying community scale solar. These projects range from 7kw to 300kw, often serving between 5 and 45 homes per project deployed. A lot of our work has been concentrated in washington, new mexico and south dakota, which is more favorable to solar and residential homes.
▶ 0:42:20Uh, an example for one example, in washington, we've worked with tribal housing authorities and economic development programs to install solar systems. In total, in washington last year, we have deployed over 465kw, which equates to about 11. $5 million in lifetime savings to those tribes in that state.
▶ 0:42:44In new mexico, we have also deployed over 300kw last year, which will provide almost $1 million in lifetime savings. We worked with several pueblos as well, uh, pueblos that have actually worked with us during solar for all. And because some of that, because that grant was terminated, a lot of those projects were abandoned.
▶ 0:43:06And we worked to pursue other types of funding to continue those projects and make sure that they see the renewable energy benefits. Every project that we we install, we train tribal members through hands on workforce development, ensuring that these benefits are long lasting and long term capacity for the tribe. These are not just pilot projects or one time demonstration.
▶ 0:43:33They're meant to be replicable, cost effective deployments with measurable benefits. We were one of six tribal awards that received solar for all, and we received about 62 million to deploy. 72% of that would have went directly to tribes. We went to the the program was designed to deploy 14mw of residential solar, 20% savings, and help over 2900 tribal households.
▶ 0:44:02But the loss is more than $500 million. Once that program was terminated. One of the recommendations that we do want to highlight today is making sure that federal investments are protected and are delivered to tribal nations, so that they can also pursue those energy projects. Um, we also hope that the committee considers a broader definition of what development means.
▶ 0:44:26And it shouldn't just be based on resource extraction, but also deliver tangible benefits to tribal households and communities. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you, miss martin. The chair now recognizes Mr. ahmed for five minutes. Mr. rahman. >> chairman hurd, um member ranking member, leger fernandez and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to testify. My name is ken ahmed.
▶ 0:44:54I am chief operating officer of calusa indian energy, a section 17 corporation that is wholly owned by the casual dehe band of wintun indians of the calusa rancheria, a federally recognized tribe located in the sacramento valley of northern california. We're the only tribally owned power plant in microgrid developer in the country. I'm here on behalf of the colusa indian community to describe what the tribe has built and the federal barriers slowing further progress.
▶ 0:45:20The calusa indian community is a small tribe, not a major gaming operator. What they have is a proven track record of energy development spanning more than 20 years. In 2005, the tribe built a cogeneration microgrid, expanded it with solar and battery storage in 2012, and has since completely rolled the incumbent utility, pge, completely off the reservation.
▶ 0:45:46This is the first tribally owned modern microgrid in the country. The microgrid now powers the casino resort, tribal members homes, the government campus, water treatment plants, agricultural operations and tribal businesses. There have been zero power interruptions at all since 2012, making this little tribal utility authority a global leader in utility uptime. Meanwhile, the surrounding region of northern california has suffered major blackouts and rolling failures.
▶ 0:46:14Today, on the calusa reservation, the tribe is installing a two megawatt battery energy storage system exploring natural gas reserves to fuel the cogeneration plant and developing an ai center of excellence campus, with plans to expand to over 100mw. Colossus progress, however, is not the norm. An estimated 17,000 tribal homes across indian country still have zero electricity power outages.
▶ 0:46:42Uh, rates on tribal lands are more than six times the national average. The tribe founded calusa indian energy to help other tribes replicate kaluza's model on their own reservations. Through calusa tribal energy training academy, we train american indian and alaska native technicians using the calusa microgrid as a live training environment to support other tribes in developing and operating their own energy systems.
▶ 0:47:12But calusa success came despite the federal system, not because of it. Six barriers continue to slow tribal energy development. First, nepa most activities on trust lands trigger federal environmental review. The average environmental impact statement takes four and a half years to complete before the leasing process even begins. One tribal leader estimates it takes 49 steps to develop energy on trust lands, compared to four steps on private land.
▶ 0:47:39Second grid interconnection the tribe spent over ten years in a legal battle with pge to acquire distribution lines that already existed. That failed. We ended up running our own underground distribution and kicking pge off of the reservation. The standard transmission planning process runs 5 to 7 years. No tribe and no private developer can build a business case around that timeline.
▶ 0:48:04Third, epa permitting and delegation pathways exist for tribes to assume regulatory authority, but the time intensive process functions as another barrier. Fourth, the land into trust process fee to trust applications take years and sometimes decades. Fifth, the hearth act was intended to reduce federal involvement in tribal leasing, but projects on tribal lands still require additional permits, triggering separate environmental reviews.
▶ 0:48:36The result is a fragmented, permitting landscape across multiple agencies that the hearth act alone cannot solve. And sixth, a bia policy, not a statute, requires the secretary to personally review every single clean energy application submitted by a tribe. This bottleneck should be changed. Several provisions in hr 4776.
▶ 0:48:58The speed act could provide meaningful relief, clarifying that nepa is a procedural statute, not a vehicle for mandating substantive outcomes. Addresses a genuine pattern of agency overreach. The proximate cause standard would reduce the speculative analysis that drives up costs and timelines, reducing the statute of limitations for nepa challenges to 150 days would give project financing the certainty it requires.
▶ 0:49:26The bill's presumption of negative impact when a federal agency selects the no action alternative on tribal trust lands is particularly important. These reforms are a meaningful step forward, but this testimony is about more than any one bill. The regulatory barriers tribes face are not the product of malice. They're the product of a system that was not designed with tribally owned energy development in mind. It's time to redesign it. The calusa indian community is not asking for a new federal program or federal funding.
▶ 0:49:56We are asking congress to remove the barriers that prevent tribes from building their own energy systems. Thank you. I'm happy to answer any questions. >> thank you, Mr. rahman, for that testimony. The chair will now recognize members for five minutes of questions, and I will begin by recognizing the gentleman from north carolina, Mr. mcdowell, for five minutes. Mr. mcdowell. >> thank you. Chairman. Um, Mr. ahmed, I have a question for you just immediately following on your testimony.
▶ 0:50:21But if there if it takes 49 steps to approve a project on tribal land, and it takes four steps to approve it on private land, if you're a private investor, why on earth would you ever invest in a project on tribal lands? >> most don't. >> and does that harm or help members of tribal communities?
▶ 0:50:48>> absolutely harms not just for energy sovereignty, but for the ability to develop economic development projects that can help tribes at least diversify away from gaming, if not, um, you know, produce an alternative across the board for any and all economic development activities. >> you operate in california, correct? Yes, sir. And would you say that energy is expensive and heavily regulated there?
▶ 0:51:19>> you have to say the least. >> well, would you say that energy prices in california are typically high? >> listen, the tribe I work for refers to pge as pacific greed and extortion for a reason. >> despite this, uh, calusa has achieved zero power interruptions for over a decade. Yes, sir. Why did calusa make the decision to tap into oil and gas reserves on tribal lands?
▶ 0:51:46>> so yeah, to be clear, the calusa tribe is sitting on natural gas reserves. Um, no oil. Um, and the reason for that is an extension of sovereignty. So today, the only outside utility that is maintained on the reservation is the natural gas distribution line that's coming in. And the tribe would prefer not to give pge a penny of their money. And so exploring on site gas reserves is the final step towards true energy sovereignty.
▶ 0:52:14>> what delays did you face when making the decision to do that? I guess really what I'm asking is, can you tell me what it looks like on the ground? When a tribe makes the decision to move forward with an energy project, how does it play out so slowly? >> sure. Yeah.
▶ 0:52:31Well, first, most importantly, if a tribe is not certified, then you get put into the bia meat grinder of sorts where, um, yeah, just general permitting and responsiveness out of the bia can be, uh, crushing to a project. Um, if you are certified, it helps for sure. The nepa process, uh, number one by far in a way, uh, what is inhibiting a lot of these projects from getting off the ground?
▶ 0:53:01Um, fraction, uh, you know, having fractionated land, um, you know, trust versus fee versus allotted land, um, can make it incredibly difficult. And then finally, really the fee to trust process. So if you have fractionated land, then, um, ideally we help tribes identify, um, you know, neighboring parcels that are not in fee in order to acquire them and put them into trust specifically for an energy development.
▶ 0:53:27And that process, you know, can take years, if not decades. >> how often do you see projects that are delayed because of overbroad federal reviews, or a lack of coordination between agencies. >> every week? >> that's great. That's just great. We have to do better with that. Um, and your testimony, you said that tribes are not looking for the government to build the projects for them, but they want the government to get out of the way.
▶ 0:53:55And so if the senate were to pass the speed act, would tribes be ready and willing to take advantage of streamlined permitting? Um, and would this help lead to, um, you know, building a stronger and more secure energy future on tribal lands. >> for the majority of tribes. Yes. >> um. Running out of time here. But. Chairman white clay, I have a question for you.
▶ 0:54:22Um, and I'll close with this one, but is the challenge that you face as the chairman of your tribe, is it a lack of resources or willingness from tribal communities, or is it a permitting system that moves too slowly? >> um, thank you for that question. It's permitting, it's regulatory, it's bia quagmire, it's nepa quagmire.
▶ 0:54:50It's we're in. Um, sovereignty is in question when we have to go through all the acronyms for any type of movement on and with every acronym, it's a whole different process. And where we can consolidate all of these, most of these through the speed act would be a great benefit. >> Mr. chairman, I would just urge the senate to take up the speed act and yield back.
▶ 0:55:20>> the gentleman from north carolina yields at this time. The chair recognizes the ranking member of the subcommittee from the state of new mexico, miss leger fernandez, for five minutes. Miss leger fernandez. >> thank you, Mr. chair. And, uh, I wanted to start with the the testimony from miss martin, your written testimony, what you spoke about was how the work you were doing was going to bring down the cost of utilities for the tribal members you were going to serve.
▶ 0:55:51I think if I recall, it was $1,300 per household per year. In today's environment, with rising prices, you know, the the ron bar is bumping prices up for utilities, for gas, for diesel. What does it mean to have these projects suspended because of the the pullback on funds? And how can you get them back into play.
▶ 0:56:18Like are you going to be able to, to, to get them done and save, uh, these tribal members this money? >> thank you. I appreciate the question. I think this is a, a really hot topic for, for all of us who are trying to fill in the gaps from federal incentives that are, are no longer in existence.
▶ 0:56:39Just for a little context, the solar for all grant required 20% savings, and we expected to exceed those savings by combining different federal financial sources. Solar for all funding alone wasn't enough to to fill in the gaps. And so we we also propose utilizing other types of sources, philanthropic access for funding these projects for technical assistance.
▶ 0:57:07So from that calculation, we were able to propose that at least minimum 1300, or at least on average $1,300 would be saved annually per household. Uh, unfortunately, when that was terminated, we were also able to look at other funding sources that were still in existence through the state, particularly in new mexico and washington.
▶ 0:57:30There was still state funding available that these projects that were developed under solar for all continue to see those those same estimates or the same cost savings. So those are direct savings to the tribal tribal members, right? Um, that are already experiencing energy burden, um, higher than the national average. So state funding was something that we used to fill that gap. Uh, we also had some philanthropy that allowed us to provide grants in these different areas.
▶ 0:57:59And it was beyond the six states that we proposed in solar for all. And so we were able to also pursue those projects. Um, is it enough? Definitely not. We're hoping to see more and we're recommending that there is more federal incentives specific for tribes, because it's $500 million that was committed to and taken away. And so that was, again, $94 million lifetime savings.
▶ 0:58:19And so we're hoping to again see that those type of federal incentives come back, as well as financial stacking, that we're hoping to provide technical assistance to the tribes in order to take advantage this time around. Um, if there was itc or tax credits that they can utilize. >> so thank you. And what we're seeing is that renewable energy, even without subsidies, is still the cheapest form of electricity.
▶ 0:58:47It all depends on your situation of where you're at. I wanted to get to the issue of the speed act, and I think that everybody on this dais on republican and democrat, recognize that we have to overcome the burdens. It is not working, and it is wrong for there to be so many burdens, extra burdens placed on tribes.
▶ 0:59:06Um, I do have when I, when we were looking at the speed act, though, I'll have, I'd love to have a conversation with you because I looked at it and I looked at the requirement, um, that you could not bring any, uh, you could not bring, bring, bring any judicial review if a comma, uh, was not both substantive and unique submitted during the public comment period. And I was worried.
▶ 0:59:32About a lot because I know that for example, uh, I represent multiple tribes, uh, that might be neighbors with each other. Each of those tribes, for example, might give the same comment. This mind will impact a or water source.
▶ 0:59:54So you have two tribes give the same comment substantive impact on water source, but they would be foreclosed from having any judicial review because that comment wasn't unique. I don't know if any of you had thought about that, but that's actually what the language says. It must be both substantive and unique, which means nobody else would have said it, which would preclude tribes if you had multiple tribal members. Does that raise any concerns?
▶ 1:00:22I know, councilman gallo, you actually spoke of that, and I don't know if you had looked at that aspect of it. >> yes. Thank you for the question. Um, congresswoman, we have and the way we interpreted that was you're not going to be, uh, pushed aside to not comment, but with the comments that we were trying to really impact is the ones that are really outside of the area, outside of the, the state, even that bring
▶ 1:00:55Concern just because they're, you know, uh, cared about the land. But what we're talking about is just limiting that. So if we are neighbors and it does affect you, you definitely have that, that right to make a concern. So that's how we interpreted it. >> yeah. And I think that that, that idea that people didn't want anybody but that when you actually add the unique aspect you are, then you are then actually canceling each other out.
▶ 1:01:22And from a legal perspective, and this is kind of what I did before I got here, uh, you are really meaning that, uh, multiple tribal members, multiple tribes would be, uh, no longer be able to raise those issues because of the word and unique, which is, I think a problem I had, uh, I had a, a motion to strike that so it could be substantive, which is, I think what you're trying to get to, uh, unfortunately, I didn't get a single republican vote on it, maybe when it's reviewed again.
▶ 1:01:53And with that, I've gone over my time and I yield back. >> the gentleman's time has expired. I think the intent of that was to remove form, duplicative letters. But that's something that maybe we can talk about. So, um, which are gumming it up unnecessarily. The gentleman from, uh, michigan, Mr. wahlberg, is recognized for five minutes. Mr. wahlberg. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And thanks to the panel for being here.
▶ 1:02:16Um, councilman gallegos, um, let me ask you, this, uh, southern utes experience shows that when tribes have the capacity to manage development, energy projects can support jobs, uh, revenue and long term economic opportunity for the whole community. From your perspective, how does tribal energy development translate into real workforce and economic benefits for southern ute? >> thank you for that comment.
▶ 1:02:47Um, my answer to that would be, you know, having the tribe regulate and be the, the one that oversees all of our compliances. It makes us more sovereign as, as a tribe. And the economic value that it brings is the health and welfare of our membership.
▶ 1:03:03And of course, it's going to add jobs, uh, to the surrounding communities and, and the surrounding communities that aren't tribally owned, um, will or tribally owned or not will benefit from the, uh, the success of future development. >> how are those benefits impacted and limited when federal approvals take too long?
▶ 1:03:32>> well, thank you for that question. Follow up would be. If the process takes too long, it lags for resources like education, health, and even, uh, funding for our tribal members. So at one point, uh, we weren't able to, um, have some of those immunities for our members. So the, the delay would be the delay to the members that benefit from those services.
▶ 1:04:03>> how, how can we, the federal government, if it's possible, how can we fix that issue? So that, um, um, the timeline actually supports investments, hiring and long term planning for, for the tribes. >> great question.
▶ 1:04:23Well, I think just approving the speed act and then, um, the, just relying on the part where tribes create their own regulation that's best tailored for that specific reservation, rather than use the nepa review or environmental review. That isn't well intended, but I think the tribes have.
▶ 1:04:45Each tribe has unique, uh, regulation and standards that, um, best know how to fit that specific tribe. >> okay. Local control. Thank you. >> thank you. >> Mr. ahmed. Um, your testimony describes calusa as doing two things at once building real energy infrastructure and training people to operate it.
▶ 1:05:11You highlight calusa tribal energy training academy and your efforts to help other tribes stand up their own utility authorities. And you describe the calusa model as a solution to energy problems facing indian country. What makes the calusa model workable for other tribes, and what would it take for more tribes to replicate that kind of energy independence? >> thank you.
▶ 1:05:39Uh, what makes the calusa model workable, I believe, is that we take in all of the above approach, where the core of our, our home microgrid is powered by stable base load, natural gas fired cogeneration power plant with solar and battery supplementing. Um, and so I like to say that every tribe is resource rich when it comes to energy. It's just a matter of identifying which resources they're rich in.
▶ 1:06:10Um, so we are not a renewable energy company. We are a tribal energy company. So we deal with tribes all across the country. Of the 575, you know, many have, um, oil and gas reserves. Um, more of them do not. And so identifying, um, gas pipelines nearby, um, available, uh, solar, uh, potential. Um, all of the above, I think is really what makes our model workable for other tribes.
▶ 1:06:37And also the fact that, um, the calusa home microgrid was depended on virtually no federal funding. This was a financeable project, right? Um, and so not just looking for money from the feds, but looking for a long term sustainable, um, option. What would it take for more tribes to replicate this?
▶ 1:07:01Um, ideally, like, like the councilman said, uh, clearing the feds out of the way as much as possible and, um, putting the permitting control in the hands of tribes. The only other thing I'll mention is helping to expand technical capacity across indian country, uh, would also be a great benefit. Okay. >> thank you. My time is expired, I yield back. >> gentleman, time has expired at this time. The chair recognizes the gentleman from the state of washington.
▶ 1:07:30Miss randall, for five minutes. Miss randall. >> thank you, mister chair. And thank you to the tribal leaders and our witnesses for being here today to share your perspectives on the barriers, um, and successes in natural resource development. You know, I represent the olympic peninsula in washington state and this land and these these waters are home to 12 federally recognized tribes. Our state is home to 29.
▶ 1:07:59And since time immemorial, indigenous communities have managed landscapes to maintain the health of their communities. Their people, preserve cultural resources, sustain food access, and to ensure a future for the next seven generations.
▶ 1:08:18Woven into the cultures of the tribes in my region is a deep respect for the water and the salmon and its tribal leaders, who have been leading the efforts to protect fish habitat and make their communities more resilient in the face of climate change.
▶ 1:08:37It's personal and important, especially because many of the tribal nations in my district have experienced historical levels of flooding, coastal erosion and severe wildfires and are having to make the difficult decision to voluntarily relocate essential community facilities, hospitals, schools, justice centers, and even entire neighborhoods to safer, higher ground, large infrastructure and resiliency
▶ 1:09:08Projects require tribes to navigate a complex jumble of potential resources and programs across many federal agencies, and each program comes with its own regulatory strings, reporting requirements, deadlines, cost share requirements, and other processes that make programs difficult or impossible for some tribal nations to access.
▶ 1:09:30Not every nation is able to access the same, um, you know, legal expertise, um, doesn't have the same funding for staff. That's why I introduced the tera act to address these challenges by streamlining the approval process and improving coordination across agencies and across grants. Mr.
▶ 1:09:48Aman, in your testimony, you mentioned that the new department of interior policy requires that the secretary of interior must personally review every single clean energy application submitted by a tribe. For those who may not know, the secretary of interior serves in the president's cabinet and is responsible for management and conservation of most federal land and natural resources and leads agencies such as the bureau of land management, indian affairs, national park service.
▶ 1:10:17It seems like a secretary sign off policy would make it almost impossible to obtain approval. What kind of delays have resulted from this trump administration policy? >> I don't know of anyone that has actually been approved. Um, so I think it's significant and cumbersome and unnecessary.
▶ 1:10:41I think it, uh, removes the self-determination, you know, um, out of the equation where tribes should, like I said, we're not a renewable energy developer or tribal energy developer. That means we do all of the above. Um, and that includes a whole lot of renewable projects. And so, um, if a tribe wants to develop oil and gas, they should be allowed to, if a tribe wants to develop wind and solar, they should be allowed to as well.
▶ 1:11:09>> and I don't think it can go without saying that this administration is asking for individual sign off on tribal clean energy projects while doing everything they can to speed up private oil and gas project approval.
▶ 1:11:23In your testimony, you also stated that one tribal leader had estimated it took up to 49 steps to develop energy resources on trust land, compared to just four steps on private land under state jurisdiction. I'd love to hear more about that and any steps congress can take to streamline that process. >> sure. Yeah, I think, um, it's really highlighted in the rest of my testimony.
▶ 1:11:49The, the nepa is number one, um, far and away. Um, number two is the epa permitting and delegation. Um, I think one that goes often overlooked is the fee to trust process because I think, um, legislators view fee to trusts through one lens and not necessarily through the very fine lens of energy development.
▶ 1:12:15And so I think that expediting fee to trust applications specifically for energy developments, um, would, would, would solve a lot of these problems. Um, because where you have a lot of land or where you have fractionated land or where you have, um, existing, you know, right of way issues or whatever. Um, a lot of those problems can be solved by identifying new parcels of land and putting that new parcel of land into trust. >> thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. chair. >> gentleman's time has expired at this time.
▶ 1:12:44The chair recognizes himself for five minutes of questions. Uh, councilman gallegos, it's great to see you here. The southern ute tribe. Your tribe has a reputation for being, uh, setting a leading example of a tribe that's built real capacity to manage energy development successfully. Can you tell us a little bit about how greater tribal control over energy development has impacted the southern ute tribe's ability to deliver economic results for its people?
▶ 1:13:17>> thank you. Chairman. I'll start off with, um, you know, the greater and faster we can produce a product, the more our members are going to thrive off of services that we help fund those individual services like education, like healthcare, so on.
▶ 1:13:36Um, and another one is, you know, really showing that the, you know, the federal government that natives can be on, on their own, you know, self-sufficient, maintain a, a good, clean, healthy way of production because, you know, a lot of people, uh, are worried about the animals and the environment. You know, that's our worry too. But who better to manage and can keep control is that individual tribe.
▶ 1:14:00So speaking from a tribe's perspective, you know, give us our tools, give us our, uh, um, give us our, our, our amendments that we can, you know, put to work because there ain't no better way to.
▶ 1:14:17I guess we have everything in house rather than a visitor coming in and, and, and trying to, you know, look at a site or, or, or whatnot, but I'll just leave it there for now. Thank you. >> so, so it's fair to say energy development is, has an economic benefit, but also it enhances tribal sovereignty and self-determination. Is that fair to say? >> yes, sir. >> great. Thank you. Uh, Mr. rahman, dumb question.
▶ 1:14:47Basic question. Would you say micro grid? What is that? How do you define micro grid? I'm just curious, man. >> it depends on who you ask. There's, uh, how we define it is, um, you have on site power generation and on site distribution to more than one electrical load. You can be interconnected with the main grid. You can be operating completely in island mode. Um, or you could have, you know, the, the option to do both. >> so how big of a capacity would be the largest? Calusa.
▶ 1:15:15I'm just curious in terms of like peaking capacity, is it like hundreds of megawatts or. >> no, no. Yeah. It's, uh, our capacity at our home micro grid is ten megawatts. >> ten megawatts. >> yes. >> okay. Got it. Some tribes are same. Uh, if I could stay with you for just a moment. So some tribes are blessed with an abundance of natural resources while others are not.
▶ 1:15:34Um, can you talk a little bit about how the kind of energy development that calusa does puts tribes, particularly those without many natural resources in a position of independence? >> sure. Yeah. Well, again, I, I like to say that all tribes are, are resource rich when it comes to energy. Um, whether it's sunshine or natural gas or, um, geothermal or. You know, we're completely technology agnostic.
▶ 1:16:04And so we haven't found a tribe yet that we can't find an energy project for. Um, that's not to say that every energy project is financeable, but, um, you know, technically there, there's a solution, um, to some regard it with every single tribe that we're in development with. >> great. Thank you, Mr. roman. That's a great perspective to have. Every, every tribe is natural resource rich, just in different ways and identifying those and giving them opportunities.
▶ 1:16:33I think the message of economic diversification is one that really resonates with me. And you mentioned that, um, in your, in your testimony and also in your opening statement. And I think that's a great message that across the dais, everyone, everyone would agree that that economic diversification is, is a good thing. Thank you. Chairman. White clay. A common theme that we've seen this hearing is that tribal natural resource development is more than an economic issue. It's a sovereignty issue.
▶ 1:17:01When tribes can't develop their own resources in a timely way. Um, there are real consequences for self-determination. Speaking on behalf of the crow tribe, how do federal permitting delays and overlapping approvals interfere with the crow tribe's ability to exercise control over its land and its resources? >> thank you. Um, well, first, it's a sovereignty issue.
▶ 1:17:26You know, um, like the councilman said, who better to store the land than the folks that grew up on there for centuries that are part of the land that were ingrained in the land, the overlapping issues that affect the crow tribe as far as energy development and creating these, um, come down to people, the crow tribe, through our, uh, resources, we have been able to
▶ 1:17:57Fund all the social programs within our tribe. My tribe is ground zero for missing and murdered indigenous. And with the closures of the mine, um, limiting and slowing of production of economic development and energy production, we're not able to fund these programs. We're not able to do that. Um, yes, there is programs out there for tribes, but they're very limited in their usage.
▶ 1:18:25For example, we had 72 missing people last year and we found all 72. And but those folks were found on our general fund. We were we fully funded that with no help from the federal government. So in those programs, slowing down, permitting, slowing down production, slowing down all of these things, um, restricts tribes from being able to fund these social programs. >> thank you very much, chairman whiteclay.
▶ 1:18:54And I see that my time has expired as well. If you could, the witnesses could hold on for just one moment, please.
▶ 1:19:26Great. I want to thank each of the witnesses for your valuable testimony and also my colleagues, my fellow members, for your questions. Members of this committee may have some additional questions for each of you witnesses, or perhaps all of you witnesses, and we'd ask that you respond to those in writing. Under committee rule three members of the committee must submit those questions to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. On monday, april 27th, 2026. The hearing record will be held open for ten business days for these responses.
▶ 1:19:53If there is no further business, then without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.