▶ 0:15:27Give me a come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare recess at any time. Good morning, everyone. Uh thank you to our witnesses for being here to discuss the future of West LA VA Over a century ago, the West LA VA campus was created with a clear mission to serve our nation's veterans in That promise has not been fully kept.
▶ 0:15:52For years and through multiple administrations, members of this committee have raised concerns about how this land has been managed. Those concerns were not They were documented. Um they were raised repeatedly and in many cases ignored. Biden administration made decisions to prioritize other interests over veterans while veterans were sleeping outside the gates of this very campus.
▶ 0:16:22Last year, the Trump administration reversed the decades-old status quo, stating that the current lease on the VA campuses do not uh uh pr- principally benefit veterans. The latest congressionally mandated report show that the VA is being significantly underpaid for renting land intended to be used to the benefit of veterans.
▶ 0:16:46Time and time again, the holders of these leases and contracts have failed to uphold their end of the bargain with We have seen firsthand that the homeless veterans living on the campus do not have the services to and the help uh make them successful and get out of the homeless situation and back on Today, we will examine these previous agreements and contracts to ensure that they are putting veterans first.
▶ 0:17:13Oversight does not mean standing in the It means making sure the department has the tools, authority, direction to fix what has been broken. I applaud Secretary Collins and the Trump administration for putting in the hard work to try to make sense of years of inaction and let many of these agreement benefit oil benefiting oil companies, a private school, and the public schools, baseball teams over the Rather than defending
▶ 0:17:43prior decisions, Secretary Collins is actively re-examining them and bringing accountability where it was previously That shift is postured in critical if in in critical if we are serious and is critical if we're serious about correcting course at West LA.
▶ 0:18:04It has taken new leadership willing to confront these challenges directly to begin addressing what has become a long-standing failure at the at this Veterans are always at the top of my my and all of my colleagues mind, and I want to ensure you that those using this land have the same mindset.
▶ 0:18:27I fully support the intent of the administration's vision for the National Center for Warrior Independence to effectively lift veterans who are struggling out of homelessness. However, any pathway forward related to this new center should not move forward without clear and specific statutory Congress must ensure that new initiatives, especially at this scale, are properly authorized, structured,
▶ 0:18:57and aligned with congressional intent. I understand that many entities operating on the campus were required to sign non-disclosure agreements related to these projects. Since this is federal property intended to serve veterans, transparency should be a priority, not an option. If agreements, planning decisions are delayed, or hiding behind NDAs, the committee will demand answers.
▶ 0:19:26Oversight requires visibility. The The American taxpayers and our veterans deserve to know how the land is being used and why pro- progress has been so I did want to mention I'm happy to see that the oversight plan from VA that how the department will comply with President Trump's executive order to transfer this campus. this report is 248 days delayed.
▶ 0:19:57The department owes this committee a clear path forward. I look forward to working with the bipartisan way with with the ranking member and Secretary Collins to co- uh course correct West LA. With that, I welcome the our witnesses and look forward to your testimony. But now I recognize ranking member Takano for his opening comments.
▶ 0:20:29Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to start um the hearing by honoring the lives of two individuals who were dedicated to serving homeless veterans in Los Edna Nitolchan and David uh Echevarria are are have both recently passed away. Ms. Nitolchan was the acting chief of community engagement and reintegration services for the greater LA healthcare system, having worked with homeless veterans for over 20 years.
▶ 0:20:59I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Echevarria last August at a round table I held in Los Angeles. Uh David's advocacy and improve David's advocacy improved thousands of veteran lives. My heart is with his family and all those who love him. And I ask that Mr. Chairman, you join me in a moment of silence for Mr. Echevarria and Ms. Naito Chan.
▶ 0:21:22Take a moment of Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, we are at a Let me just say at the outset, Mr. Chairman, I I wasn't anticipating your statement about the inappropriateness of non-disclosure agreements, but I welcome those comments and am heartened that you have um made that statement.
▶ 0:21:52Um, and also um uh, your statement about the uh uh, the over the the plan that was due 248 days ago. Um, it is something that we have requested from the White House for many months. Uh, and uh veterans have been left in the dark, frankly. And the NDAs have been a severe have created a loss of lots of unnecessary suspicion and distrust. And so, I appreciate uh, I think this is getting off to a good bipartisan start is what I'm trying to tell you.
▶ 0:22:22if we uh, so my my point is if we do not at this inflection point uh, regarding the future of the National Veteran's National Soldiers Home in West LA, I fear that we will doom this property to become a vast a vast West Side Skid Row.
▶ 0:22:42And if you've ever been to Skid Row in downtown LA to see the idea that this would become a vast, even a vaster West Side Skid Row is is is a horrifying vision. Now, I know these are strong words, but I mean them.
▶ 0:22:57There is no other place in the country besides Skid Row where there are so many formerly where so many formally homeless These veterans bear the trauma of both having been homeless and the visible and invisible wounds of This concentration of veterans without adequate supportive services has jeopardized tenant safety, sobriety, and mental health. We have created a pressure cooker.
▶ 0:23:24We must address the root causes of the problems at West LA or we will fail the thousands of veterans who should be able to call the National Soldiers Home their A home should be more than just a place to sleep.
▶ 0:23:39It should be a community, a place where veterans feel safe with services and amenities and where veterans can stay with their children and not worry about crimes taking place next door, gangs coming on the property, or neighbor dying from an overdose A community means that different groups of veterans can live together, work together, coexist together. That is what the vision for the Soldiers Home was meant to be. But it is not.
▶ 0:24:09It is failing. The veterans who are meant to who are meant to call this campus home are being harmed by the same failed policies that are harming everyone in this country. A housing crisis, a rising fuel costs, a skyrocketing cost of living, cuts to health care. the affordability crisis is getting worse and worse under this administration and homeless veterans are experiencing it firsthand.
▶ 0:24:39Now, there are many there are many entities who are involved in what the Soldiers Home has become and what it could be. It is inexplicable that the majority did not heed my request to include HUD, uh the two LA area public housing authorities, Brightburn Energy, or Brentwood School in today's hearing.
▶ 0:24:58I asked the majority to include a veteran advocate on the panel, but I was I will do my best to include these veteran voices by sharing some of their stories, by trying to get their questions for VA answered. But again, it is inexplicable that my colleagues would refuse to bring these voices to the table. So, I'm going to share stories from six veterans who should have been invited here today. Now, I'll start with George, a 20-year retired disabled Air Force veteran who uses a wheelchair.
▶ 0:25:28For over 3 years, George lived in a 6x6 tiny shed on the West LA campus with his dog. After a series of failed housing placements, none of which were George's fault, he moved into an apartment at the Soldiers Home 2 weeks ago. It took veteran advocate Rob Reynolds, my staff, and Jim Zinner from LA County getting involved to finally get George into housing. It should not have been this hard.
▶ 0:25:572 weeks ago, my staff met with Vince and his 2-year-old 2-year-old named also named Vince. Uh he shared that they Vince shared that they were moving out of campus housing because their building was overrun with He found roaches in little Vince's crib. Roaches in his child's crib.
▶ 0:26:19Fire alarms go off all hours of the night, disturbing both of their sleep, the sleep of pets who also live in the building, and often triggering PTSD symptoms for other veterans. Another veteran named John shared that there are 50 known drug dealers on campus, and that drug use is rampant. He said that there were three veteran deaths due to overdoses in a single building in March and April alone, but that the medical examiner codes overdoses as deaths by natural causes, skewing the data.
▶ 0:26:49He shared repeated instances of veterans passing away in a housing unit on campus and VA police failing to secure the unit leading to thefts of the deceased veterans belonging. He also told us about dogs who live with veterans having to be saved with Narcan after drug exposure. And Narcan using Narcan isn't even readily available in every building on the campus.
▶ 0:27:13Another veteran, Ryan, told us about how building and campus security is failing, but VA police is hamstrung by staffing challenges and jurisdictional and policy restraints from doing anything in this There are frequent apartment break-ins and people are climbing through windows to buy drugs. There is known prostitution and sex trafficking throughout the property. Charlie lives in one of the newest buildings on campus, but is already having issues.
▶ 0:27:41He won't bring his two sons to visit and wishes the property were more family-friendly friendly. Each of these veterans talked about the need for more supportive services for campus residents. In August of last year, a group of veterans living in building 205 invited my staff in so they could witness the atrocious conditions.
▶ 0:28:01The building was infested with pests and My staff immediately emailed VA Central Office asking for a meeting with the VA, the public housing authority, and the property management company, John Stewart Company. That meeting still has not happened 9 months later and it hits and it was clear to my staff during their visit in April that the conditions in the building have only worsened.
▶ 0:28:27When my staff asked facility leadership about this long-standing request regarding building 205 during a visit 2 weeks ago, the medical center director and deputy were not even aware of it because VA Central Office, that is the Office of Congressional and Legislative Affairs, never sent it to Urgent casework requests my staff on behalf of veterans in crisis who live in West at the West LA at West LA have also gone unanswered.
▶ 0:28:54Now when VA ignores my staff, they're ignoring veterans. This is utterly unacceptable and frankly it's dangerous. Veterans lives are at real risk. Now I'll mention I'll mention one final veteran, Jeffrey Powers, the lead plaintiff in Powers v. McDonald lawsuit. Jeffrey has repeatedly asked why VA continues to drag on its appeal. And when will VA finally do the right thing and implement Judge Carter's order? I share Jeffrey's frustration.
▶ 0:29:24I hope today that VA is ready to share with the public a real plan for West LA. The implications of both the Powers case and the President's executive order establishing a center for warrior at West LA would bring thousands more veterans to the campus. Is VA ready for this? I fear they are not.
▶ 0:29:48I've repeatedly called on VA to make its strategy for West LA public and to give veterans, Congress, and the community an opportunity to weigh in. All the work that has been done to this point has been done behind closed doors without veteran or congressional input. Individuals working on the West LA project were required to sign non-disclosure agreements as was mentioned earlier by the chairman with the purpose of keeping information from the public.
▶ 0:30:16These unprecedented and I I repeat unprecedented non-disclosure agreements have prevented Congress and the public from getting information that it is entitled to and that VA is accountable But sadly, as VA's testimony today makes it clear, there is no plan to rectify the numerous issues I and my staff have raised for years nor address the new housing required by President Trump's new executive order.
▶ 0:30:42Now, I'm not ideologically opposed to Trump's intent with his executive order. I don't know if the world just kind of shattered here. I am not ideologically opposed, Mr. Van Orden, to Trump's intent with this executive order. But to be able to serve 6,000 veterans, many of whom have complex requires comprehensive strategy.
▶ 0:31:12I do not see, frankly, the financial commitments being made nor adequate plans for VA to meet these needs to meet the needs of these veterans. And I do not believe this VA has the expertise to develop, implement, and oversee a plan of this size and scope. With the decades that the Soldiers' Home wasted away under mismanagement and corruption, VA should know better than to operate in secret when it comes to making plans for the land.
▶ 0:31:42Veterans deserve better. And veterans living at at West LA need more than thousands of tiny homes. There are veterans who live at the Soldiers' Home who have jobs and who are doing well. Uh but there is a significant population who may need more I fear without an intentional and significant investment of additional supportive services and a comprehensive strategy, we are setting up current and future veteran tenants for failure and will simply be warehousing veterans at the Soldiers' Home.
▶ 0:32:13And when a veteran is ready to say yes to treatment, VA must be prepared to provide that treatment on demand. Now, I call on my colleagues to join me in demanding VA invest in expanding clinical practices we know work, like mental health intensive case management, assertive community treatment, substance use case management, and critical time VA must get serious about the reality of its staffing situation to build out integrated teams so they can provide the care veterans need.
▶ 0:32:43That means more social workers, more nurses, more physicians, and more VA police. For those veterans who want to live in a sober environment, there should be options available at the Soldiers Home. The best way to get people sober is is through permanent housing and support, not through forced institutionalization. Being a homeless veteran should not be a crime, and having an addiction related to your service should not be an excuse to lock a veteran behind closed behind behind bars.
▶ 0:33:14Now, we have an opportunity to set the standard for ending veterans home veteran homelessness by building a community for veterans at the National Soldiers Home. To date, VA has shown a lack of transparency and accountability. That needs to end today. Otherwise, the Trump VA's action and inaction threatens to doom this property to failure and the veterans who reside there to continued harm. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 0:33:44Thank you, ranking member, for his opening statement. We will now turn to our witnesses with for their testimony. Testifying before us today, we have Dr. Mr. John Bartrum. He is Under Secretary of Health at VA, accompanied by with him is Dr. Thomas O'Toole, Acting Deputy Under Secretary for Health Clinical Services at VA, and Mr. Brett Sims, Executive Director at the Office of Assistant Management at VA, and um uh Ms.
▶ 0:34:12Danielle Runyan, Senior Counsel for the Secretary at VA. Will all the witnesses please stand and raise their right hand? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. I now recognize Ms.
▶ 0:34:35Runyan for 5 minutes to deliver the testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for inviting us to discuss the work VA is doing to implement President Donald J. Trump's Executive Order Keeping Promises to Veterans and Establishing a National Center for Warrior Independence.
▶ 0:35:01For generations, VA's West Los Angeles campus has held the unrealized potential to be a beacon of hope and stability for thousands of veterans. Under the leadership of President Trump and VA Secretary Douglas A. Collins, this potential is finally on the way to being And it is about time, as the mismanagement of this campus dates back more than 130 years. In 1888, Arcadia Bandini de Stearns Baker and Senator John P.
▶ 0:35:29Jones gifted hundreds of acres of land to the government for the purpose of providing a home and community for disabled It was meant to be a place where Civil War veterans could live out the rest of their days in peace. But this goal was never fully realized. Some housing was built, but over the years, large portions of the campus were deeded away, and other parcels were used in ways that did not benefit veterans.
▶ 0:35:53VA Inspector General reports in 2018 and 2021 concluded the property was being The IG determined that various agreements that allowed outside parties to use parts of the campus did not comply with the West LA Leasing Act, other applicable federal laws, or the draft master plan. In May 2025, President Trump issued his Executive Order to turn this property around.
▶ 0:36:17It called on VA to vastly expand the capacity of this campus to house thousands of veterans at the new National Center for Warrior Independence by January 1, 2028. Here's what we've done to get there. In February 2026, VA terminated illegal and wasteful West LA leases and a license under which the campus allowed the Brentwood School, Safety Park Corporation, and Bridgeland Resources to use the land in ways that served no meaningful benefit to veterans.
▶ 0:36:46Bridgeland, for example, is operating oil wells on the land. It is bad enough that this campus was being leased out in ways that provided no benefits to veterans, but even worse, these agreements underpaid VA for the fair value of these properties by more than $40 million [clears throat] per To sum it up, these leases were ripping off veterans and ripping off US The ongoing litigation in this area limits our ability to discuss these matters further, but we continue to do everything we can to reclaim the land at our West
▶ 0:37:17West LA campus so we can fulfill the requirements of President Trump's order. In the meantime, VA has taken important steps to establish the National Center for Warrior Independence and build the infrastructure we need to host thousands of veterans at this site. When we arrived in January 2025, the campus had the capacity to house 955 In January 2026, our capacity to provide housing to formerly homeless veterans expanded to 1,377.
▶ 0:37:47By the end of 2026, we expect to have capacity to house 1,670 formerly homeless veterans, thanks mostly to our plan to build temporary housing this year for another 220 By the end of 2027, we expect to have beds for 2,048 homeless veterans. Meanwhile, VA is putting in place the infrastructure we need to handle an increased veteran population.
▶ 0:38:13For example, VA is is enhancing safety measures on campus to give veterans the secure space they need to successfully achieve independence. We are also increasing the level of service we give to veterans who already are living on the campus. Among other things, VA has made homeless patient aligned care team services available to all veterans for clinical We provided case management support to help veterans as they seek housing vouchers with the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
▶ 0:38:42We've also terminated the lease of the Wadsworth Chapel on the West LA campus to ensure it can serve veterans of These efforts and others have helped ensure that 98% of veterans on this campus remained housed and do not return to the streets. Our goal is to give veterans a fair chance to succeed in the country they sacrificed so much to defend. In West LA, we are building a campus that unifies housing, clinical care, mental health care, and benefits for some of the nation's most vulnerable veterans.
▶ 0:39:13When we succeed, the campus will serve as a destination for thousands of homeless veterans across the nation and a place where they can get the care they need, obtain sustainable employment, and achieve financial independence. Thank you for supporting this important project and we look forward to your Thank you for your testimony. I now want want to go to questions and I'll recognize myself for 5 minutes. Mr. Bertram and Ms.
▶ 0:39:39Runyan, do you believe uh you are above congressional oversight you you are above congressional oversight and accountability and I just need a yes or no. No, we do not believe we are above that. Mr. Bertram and Ms.
▶ 0:39:57Runyan, the committee has requested all non-disclosure agreements copies and who signed these agreements under oath, do you commit to working with the committee to provide all non-disclosure agreement copies to ensure proper oversight and avoid future hearings with with you both at as witnesses? Absolutely. Sure. Good. Good to know. Mr.
▶ 0:40:20Bertram, for years [snorts] this committee watched prior VA leadership avoid making difficult decisions at West Los Angeles because of the political sensitivity, litigation concerns, uh competing outside interest tied to the campus. Why did Secretary Collins decide to undertake this effort when previous VA leadership largely shied away from fully assess asserting VA control and direction over the West LA?
▶ 0:40:51Sir, I think the president decided to take this on for his commitment to veterans and that we know that we're here to fix things and that this campus, as was pointed out by the ranking member and by yourself, has not been living up to the needs. And so we are taking this opportunity to address those needs and to make sure that it lives up to uh the fulfillment of the promise.
▶ 0:41:15Okay, Miss Bertram, President Trump's executive order required an action plan to established the National Center for Warrior Independence to be submitted to the president by September 6th, 2025. This report was received last night 248 days late. Why has the submission of this action been delayed and when should we expect to be briefed on this plan? Sir, we'd be happy to set up an appointment with you to to brief you and your staff. Okay.
▶ 0:41:45And uh I'll ask Ms. Runyon on any of the logistics on the release of the plan, but uh it's a plan that's submitted to the White House and so we had to go through the White House process. Who's personally responsible for the delay? I I can't comment on who is personally responsible, uh Chairman, but we are absolutely committed to providing you with updates
▶ 0:42:07I need to comment on as requested. Um this has been an iterative process. The only concern I have is that we got it last night, but it's dated September 5th, 2025. I have a lot of problems, but I I see that as a problem. I I understand, Chairman. And what I will say also, um we have been uh embattled in litigation um in litigation that we inherited when this administration took over. So, um going forward, and we also made this commitment at the Eight Corners briefing, we are happy to provide monthly updates to the committee.
▶ 0:42:37Would both of you agree that and let me tell you that it's been through both Republican and Democrat administrations through a tremendous amount of secretaries that um as we've watched West LA deal with the issues it has because I can't only even remember whenever I came out and toured West LA, I don't think I was Was I ranking member or chair just taking over as chairman? I was ranking ranking member, and we could see the problems that were developing then, and we made There were promises made to cure the cure it.
▶ 0:43:08Do you I know that we have we feel, but I So, the concerns that I have is that the outside influences that were being pressured on the VA and the local politics of that, not necessarily for the veteran, but what for who had the lease agreements has had what held us up from actually aggressively going after this to get it ready for the veterans that needed to be taken care of. Uh yes, Chairman. So, we would absolutely agree.
▶ 0:43:35Um we have had to clean up a tremendous uh amount of challenges and issues um that some of them that we listed out in our our testimony and others that I think you all had already noted in your opening statements. Um now that we have the the lease agreements that are terminated, some of these topics I can't necessarily get into because of the ongoing litigation.
▶ 0:43:52However, we are committed to ensuring that with all of those actions that we're taking, now we can finally move into the opera opera operationalizing phase of this to ensure that we achieve the president's objectives, which we are committed to achieving by January of 2028.
▶ 0:44:09And sir, if I could add, there's a lot of steps that you talked about and and ranking member Takano, you mentioned about security. We've already or on a path now to to we've authorized and we're working to hire up to 160 VA police officers. We have increased it from last year in the 50 to 60 range to over 80 as of right now.
▶ 0:44:28We just in awarded a security contract to have additional security, some contract security on We just awarded a multi-million dollar lighting contract to put lighting up around the campus to secure. So, we are taking steps and actions to secure the the the campus because we know that we need a secure campus as ranking member Takano said, you know, we need to be ready and support and we're building out supporting facilities and supporting housing and supporting infrastructure for our community, not just a housing complex.
▶ 0:44:58My time has expired, but would you follow up with me on on the who personally was responsible for delaying this report? Yes, chairman. Yeah, thank Yield to ranking member for 5 minutes. Thank you. Mr. Mr. Bartram, I do agree with you that the president has moved forward in executive order, but he's also complying with Judge decision. Is that not right? Isn't Judge Carter's decision also driving this? Not just the president's executive order? Do you want to I'm I'm happy to take that if if that's okay, ranking member. Yes, absolutely.
▶ 0:45:30Why are you choosing to continue to appeal judges Judge Carter's order which largely mandates most of Trump's EO? Because that's in litigation, unfortunately, I cannot answer that question for you. Thank you. Ms. Runyan, did VA renew its lease with We did not. Actually, there's
▶ 0:45:47So, if you have not, when do you expect to make a decision on a lease renewal? So, that lease has an automatic option exercise that only UCLA has to put us on notice that they want to extend for another 10 years. This is one of the issues that we have we've we've come across and that we've inherited are these leases that give these third parties wildly inordinate unilateral rights.
▶ 0:46:14a It's a unilateral option that UCLA has. Um Mr. O'Toole, has VA issued formal notice to Brentwood School and Brightburn Energy to vacate the West LA VA property? We've terminated those leases and we're in the process of winding down. Okay. Um when were those notices issued? Those notices were issued in February. Um The no Well, the when when did you those notices to vacate were were were notices to vacate issued? Notices to vacate have not yet been issued.
▶ 0:46:44Okay. So, when those notices were issued um What What What Excuse me, not that one. The VA did not request any funding in its FY27 budget to support the removal of the physical infrastructure of the current leaseholders, Brentwood School and Brightburn Energy, from campus. Do you plan to request supplemental funding to support the eviction efforts? Uh I can't comment on that and I can I'd be happy to take that for the record at a time when we have made some decisions on that front.
▶ 0:47:15But, what our funding does request for 2027 is to support the infrastructure and resources that we need, precisely what you had mentioned in your opening statement um regarding to to support the 6,000 veterans that we have here.
▶ 0:47:26Thank Thank you for that response. Mr. Bartram, how many case manager contracts has VA canceled for West LA West LA VA? Case manager contracts? Yes. I am only personally aware of one, but we have 200 and Dr. O'Toole 246 There are 200 Okay, Mr. Bartram, I'm sorry to cut you off. Dr. O'Toole, I know of at least three contracts that have been canceled that provided case management to over 240 veterans.
▶ 0:47:56Please provide me a list with contract numbers, the number of veterans served under those contracts, and the dates of cancellation by the end of the day. Do you know how many case managers VA has in West LA and what their case loads are, Mr. Bartram? Yes, we do. And Dr. Do you want to give the details on that? Thank you.
▶ 0:48:18There are currently 270 case managers working on campus taking care of veterans, homeless veterans. Of those, 135 are VA employees and about another 135 are contract. We also have an additional 145 support staff for those case managers including housing navigators, peer
▶ 0:48:44VA's internal case management is at 135. The rest are contractors? That that is
▶ 0:48:51And you just heard me talk about the the three contracts that have been canceled and that I want the numbers for those. So we have 135. What is the turnover rate for these case managers? I I do not know that offhand, sir. Okay. Please get that number to me. How many leave West LA each month? How many How many how many of those case managers leave
▶ 0:49:12I that I do not know either.
▶ 0:49:13Okay. How long does it take to replace I'd have to get that for you as well,
▶ 0:49:18you. How many case managers are in the hiring pipeline? Right now the facility is actively hiring and we have allocated
▶ 0:49:26My question again is how many case managers are in the hiring pipeline? I'd have to
▶ 0:49:30know. Okay. You should know that case the case manager situation in West LA is dire. VA's own data shows that there are 44 vacant social work positions in West LA. Yet you've canceled contracts with seemingly no plan to replace them with internal manpower.
▶ 0:49:47I'm I'm usually for bringing VA care back in house that we hire internally uh directly, but veterans should not be left without case management or a case manager who is stretched too thin uh while you uh struggle to fill these uh these vacancies. Do you know what VA regulations require uh that case managers serving veterans in the HUD-VASH are supposed to have a caseload of about 25 veterans with some adjustments uh for need level.
▶ 0:50:16So, President Trump is proposing to bring in an additional 6,000 homeless veterans to West LA. You have a severe shortage of case managers, and you've canceled the contracts that you used to help bridge the significant gap. I'm sorry, sir. The math just is not adding up under Secretary uh Bartrum. So, sir, if I can make a couple of points to this.
▶ 0:50:38Currently, the case management ratio of number of veterans they are serving is below both the national uh guideline standards of 25 1 to 25 and at approximately the national average. Um we fully agree with you though, sir, that um in order to
▶ 0:50:57Dr. Tool, may I interrupt you here? We're hearing from veterans themselves that there are uh from case managers Give me case managers that they're they have 300 veterans uh 300 patients on their panels. I I am not aware of that. I will say, sir, this is one of this is a difficult job to do, and I support our employees doing this work, and it is important work.
▶ 0:51:17The data that we have show that the ratio um is below the 1 to 25 mark, but we do agree with you, sir, that this is a workforce that is going to need to grow, and we have plans to grow it commensurate with the growth of uh residents on campus. Uh I would I suggest you're far from ready to deal with 6,000 uh homeless veterans uh that you intend to house at the campus. I'm over time. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I yield back. Gentlemen, you're yield back.
▶ 0:51:47Uh Representative King has your representative are your rip recognized for 5 minutes. You really are. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, I'm from the Northern Mariana Islands where we don't have a Seaboc. And I was going through in preparation for today's oversight hearing, I was going through the major construction request and what struck me almost a hundred million dollars for an 800 space parking structure.
▶ 0:52:19And so, I guess my first question is how much of the budget is actually veteran facing versus administrative or community infrastructure? So, in our in our budget sometimes it'll appear that things aren't veteran facing when they are supporting the veteran in the community. The parking supports our veterans who live on the in the housing unit so that they can park.
▶ 0:52:46And I'd like to do is Brett, if you'd like to talk about the projects that we're doing and how we're building the community out because the comments that have been made about are we ready? I would say that when we got this, it was not ready to be a community and we are doing things to make it a community and that's what we'll talk about in the in our budget Thank you. That's a great question, Congresswoman. Parking is a challenge at every VA medical center. I don't think anyone would doubt that.
▶ 0:53:10On the north campus, we've actually taken out of service virtually every parking lot that existed to build permanent supportive housing. So, there's no parking for the veterans, for visitors, for the veterans, for the staff servicing the veterans. This parking garage is intended to provide that in a single place to open up other land that we can put housing on. There are other asks within there that are both clinical in nature.
▶ 0:53:33Our community living center, our domiciliary programs both have upgrades and expansion of bed capacity included in the 27 ask as well as the ranking member had mentioned sober living. Building 212 is designed to be a 100 bed sober living unit filling one of those gaps and needs for other types of housing available on the campus. I guess what I'm trying to reconcile is is the price tag, right?
▶ 0:53:58And I think everybody can agree that everybody wants to work on addressing the homelessness situation. And so when you're looking at the 500 million budget requests and then the 100 million price tag on parking request, I I want to what is the metrics whereby the cost per bed for each housing structure is in a So that that's a great question. So as as you noted, most of these buildings are not permanent supportive housing.
▶ 0:54:28We we do have information on the cost per bed for the permanent supportive housing that we could provide. But I will also say that I wish construction was cheaper. We could certainly do a lot more. The cost of construction has continued to escalate for every type of project that we do, whether it be beds, whether it be parking, whether it be utility infrastructure. That price tag just continues to escalate. Parking is an example of something we do at almost all of our campuses that we used to be able to do for 30 or 40 million dollars that is now quickly approaching that 100 million dollars.
▶ 0:54:58Okay. Um I I get that. I guess um you know, in in terms of just getting a full understanding of the I think one of the issues is not getting a full campus master plan.
▶ 0:55:19And so once you have exhausted the 500 million dollars, do you anticipate additional costs to that because as we do coming from a jurisdiction that has to deal with supply chain issues and just inflation of construction costs, um you know, what are you beyond the $500 million, what is the annual operating cost that that you in, you know, that you expect?
▶ 0:55:44Just so that we have a goal full grasp of how much this is actually going to cost, given the fact that you know, you are renovating like a 1930s property, right? And there's going to be some permitting issues, and so you know, was there an analysis done whether it'd be better to just build a new infrastructure altogether or actually comply with a lot of these regulatory requirements that can be incredibly expensive in the state of Yeah, fully appreciate that, Congresswoman.
▶ 0:56:12And the short answer is there will be more asks. Um, we we have both infrastructure needs beyond what we're asking for in '27, as well as ongoing operational needs. There is $30 million into the healthcare budget to support the operations of a lot of what we're doing on the North Campus there. That's going to be enduring, and there will be more, um, both staffing and other types of of facility operational components that will be added to that. So, there will be more.
▶ 0:56:37This is sort of the down payment to build that foundation of a campus that can support more and more veterans that would be moving on, but there will be additional cost in future budget requests that we'll be working with the administration to provide. I'm running out of time. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Gentlewoman Neal Jack, Representative Brownley, you're recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, and thank you for the panel for being here. Um, Ms.
▶ 0:57:01Runyan, uh, according to your own data from VA's by name list, uh, nearly 400 veterans experiencing homelessness in VA are over the age of 65. Another 350 veterans are between 50 and 65 years old. That's nearly half of the by name list that will be over the age of 60 within the next 10 years.
▶ 0:57:28So, my question to you is how many existing permanent supportive housing buildings at West LA have a nurse on site? Thank you for your question, Congresswoman. I'm going to turn that over to Dr. O'Toole to provide you with the information on that. Thank you, Congresswoman.
▶ 0:57:48I First, your I appreciate you raising that question because Just I need a number or we have none or we're we have three or just need a
▶ 0:58:01much more though, ma'am, than just the number of nurses. We are planning an entire aging-in-place health care support system for
▶ 0:58:09And I understand that. I just want to know I I do not know the specific number currently in place, but I just want to reassure you it is something we are actively planning for and anticipating.
▶ 0:58:19it sounds like that you understand that our older vets who have cognitive, mobility, or other health issues that hinder their ability to manage finances or complete basic housekeeping tasks this places them at risk of homelessness. But having regular assistance with activities of daily living and help with medication management can help diminish aging veterans homelessness risk.
▶ 0:58:45I [clears throat] My bill, the Elizabeth Dole Act, expanded VA's authority to to provide home and community-based services to help veterans safely age at home. LA County's framework for ending veteran homelessness suggests VA create assisted living arrangements for aging veterans.
▶ 0:59:05CalVet and and Swords to Plowshares have a program that providing supportive services to aging and vulnerable veterans to help them maintain housing stability and to safely age in place. And the National Alliance to End Homelessness has a partnership with US Aging to leverage resources to address these issues as well as well. So, my question is, how is VA going to incorporate these supportive services into its plan to care for age for the aging veteran population?
▶ 0:59:35So, if you can provide some examples and be brief cuz I have a few more questions to ask. Uh certainly. Well, I can say, you know, I have personally done site visits both to our uh Northern California EUL system in Sacramento as well as the Colma EUL um in uh South San Francisco looking specifically at how they are managing aging in place and providing those additional services um to
▶ 1:00:06project-based voucher residents. We need to be doing this, completely agree, and um
▶ 1:00:11it is something we are working on as part of the plan.
▶ 1:00:14you're working on it, is there a way in which you can give us some information about uh how much help you need um in order to have adequate services for aging veterans? Um and give us some kind of plan because the plan that was we saw last night doesn't include any specificity.
▶ 1:00:33Yes, absolutely, and we would welcome the opportunity to work with you on adequately resourcing it. Mr. Runyan, I just wanted to um ask you my veterans in my district are absolutely 100% dependent on the West LA uh Medical Center.
▶ 1:00:51Um and you're well aware of the the long-standing partnership of UCLA uh and the Medical Center and and uh my data says that uh that partnership has helped over 80,000 veterans each year with over a million health care visits. Um so, to me, this partnership is absolutely critically [snorts] important for the health and welfare of our veterans in the region.
▶ 1:01:20So, I just wanted to hear from you um that you also believe that that partnership is is critically important. Congresswoman, I I would say yes, and let me clarify for for you, the public, anyone who is unaware, that is unrelated to the lease agreement, and I would also turn it over to the under secretary if he has anything to add on that front with respect to the medical services they Yeah, the medical services and the partnership between the hospitals and between the two facilities, whether be for research or medical care, none of that is affected
▶ 1:01:50by the lease or litigation. Well, I just I think the lease and the litigation and this you say they're separate, but I I think that I think differently about that, that they're interrelated, and in fact, I think the partnership is that VA needs that partnership more than UCLA needs that partnership.
▶ 1:02:15And and so, as a consequence, I just hope that there will never be any action by the VA or an executive order that would impede this partnership in any way, shape, or form. So, I see that my time is up. I haven't been able to ask the questions that I wanted to ask, but I will yield The gentle lady yields back. Representative Van Orden, you're recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 1:02:42Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Sims, are you a homeowner? Did you put a down payment on your home? Did you know what the percentage of the the cost of the home was going to be? At at the time, yes. Yeah, okay. So, there's no way in hell you're going to come here and say $500 million is a down payment, and you can't tell me what the actual cost is.
▶ 1:03:11You're going to going to come back for more stuff. That is absurd. And it is it is indicative of the fact that this project is going to be a further boondoggle and I think that this really is a gross demonstration of what we call And it's been going on since 1888 and it's unacceptable and it's stopping. this Look at this. Current map.
▶ 1:03:41Possible renderings. I don't understand how you guys can come here and ask for a half a billion dollars for a possible rendering. I mean this we We're not doing this any And I guaran- damn tea that President if he was aware of this, he's a builder. He builds things. He knows how much stuff costs. He has actual renderings.
▶ 1:04:05So this is unacceptable on all levels and it has been for multiple administrations and I absolutely commend President Trump and the secretary you know, trying to fix this, but this is not how this gets fixed. This this will perpetuate this problem in perpetuity. Um I don't know who's going to answer this question. Um Who Who currently is utilizing this campus? It's all in here, but no one's going to read this. They're going to see a a video. So who's utilizing this campus other than the VA?
▶ 1:04:42Okay, UCLA, who else? The school's gone. How many entities external to the VA are utilizing this campus right now? So then we also have the EUL partners. What's the generate the revenue generated annually by the tenants? Do you have that information? We can certainly take that for the record. Okay, ma'am. We need to make this public. This This whole thing is just absurd. Um How much is the real estate valued at? The actual real estate.
▶ 1:05:13We don't know. We have the value of the
▶ 1:05:16land. I mean, this is West LA. You know what I mean? This This is not you know
▶ 1:05:21We can We can easily come up with that based on the appraisal that we have for the parcels that we
▶ 1:05:25Thank you. I would I would appreciate that, ma'am. This is not Kansas. This is West LA. We agree. Um what's the average time a veteran stays on this campus? Dr. O'Toole. It's probably for you, Mr. O'Toole. So, it's going to depend, obviously. Um going back to Congressman Brownley's um uh point about aging veterans, uh we would expect them to spend their lifetime with us on that campus.
▶ 1:05:51All right, thank you.
▶ 1:05:52For younger veterans with uh shorter-term needs, substance use, mental health needs following treatment, we would hope and expect they would be able to return uh to the community in community settings.
▶ 1:06:02So, the goal is to empower our veterans who served our country honorably to get them back into the community to be productive members of society. That's our primary focus of this campus. And then for those who cannot and as Ms. Brownley very aptly pointed out, the aging veterans to give them a place where they can live in dignity and safety. Is that correct?
▶ 1:06:21Yes, sir, it is correct.
▶ 1:06:21Okay, well, then get a plan. That's all we're asking cuz you don't have one. I just We're not doing this. This falls under the purview of my subcommittee and we've been trying to fix this problem for 3 years. This is corruption and it's going to stop now. We 100% agree, Congressman. Gentleman yields back. Representative Roybal-Allard, you're you're recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, Chairman.
▶ 1:06:51I guess I'm not hearing I'm not I don't have enough coffee today. I didn't hear Happy Wednesday. Uh I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. Uh some of you know that prior uh to me coming to Congress, I spent 13 years uh serving in a social service organization providing housing and serving in a social service organization providing housing and shelter to unhoused Chicagoans. unhoused neighbors. And I'll be honest with you, it impacted absolutely everything.
▶ 1:07:20From health outcomes to access to education to job connections with family, the list goes on. It's why for me as ranking member of the subcommittee on oversight and investigations, I made it a priority to ensure that the most vulnerable of our are receiving the care and the support they need.
▶ 1:07:37However, it's clear to me that this administration's intent on dismantling and defunding programs that would would effectively address veteran Last year Trump issued an executive order calling for his agencies to force people experiencing homelessness into institutions against their will.
▶ 1:07:56And as that case, former AG Bondi and Collins made sure to follow suit with Project Safe Harbor, an initiative through which VA plans to try to weaponize the guardianship system to force homeless and at-risk veterans into Their actions are intended to appease Trump at the expense of veterans. But but let me ask, weaponizing guardianship and institutionalizing veterans, what will it actually do to address the root causes of homelessness in our country?
▶ 1:08:23Frankly, I think it's going to lead to worse outcomes for the most vulnerable of our veterans. So today I want to really focus my questions on Project Safe Harbor. Dr. Atul, Greater Los Angeles is one of the sites for Project Safe Harbor, an initiative that would result in veterans losing their autonomy to make decisions for themselves, including what treatment to get and where to live. So my question to you, Dr.
▶ 1:08:45Atul, how many homeless veterans or veterans at risk of homelessness in LA have VA has VA already enrolled in Project Safe I I'm if you don't mind, Congresswoman, um, I would like to answer on the guardianship front. Um, that is strictly established to make sure that veterans I want to know specifically right now, what my question is is how many homeless veterans or veterans at risk of homelessness have been enrolled on Project Safe Harbor? Is that what you're answering? I'm answering your first part of what you're asking. It's a
▶ 1:09:15Tool. Let me come back to Dr. Tool.
▶ 1:09:17to understand It's my time. So, I wanted to Dr. Tool. Well, thank you, ma'am, for the question. And I also appreciate the opportunity to provide some clarification on this. Um, first off Project Safe Harbor was an IPT, an interprofessional team, to look at what has been a long-standing issue of veterans who lack the mental capacity for decision-making and to be able to assist them
▶ 1:09:45information on the program, Dr. Tool, but the thing I need for the record right now is I need to be able to indicate how many veterans or veterans at risk of homelessness in LA have already been enrolled in the program. Is there any? Thank you, ma'am. As I was trying to state, the Project Safe Harbor was looking at existing practices and best practices. And so, I want to make that clarification.
▶ 1:10:10I do not have the number offhand, but this would be related to existing practices. The focus
▶ 1:10:16number, doctor. I only have a minute and 30. So, I'm for the record, I need that number. Congresswoman, if I can focus one of because you brought this issue up, the focus is on veterans who are And I I want to make sure that this is
▶ 1:10:30on veterans who have been hospitalized. That was actually one of the questions I had here. Okay. Thank you. So, let me ask you one last question and maybe you need to come back to, but how many of those cases have been adjudicated by the I I do not know that and we'd have to get back to you on that.
▶ 1:10:46do need that for the record, Chairman. If we can try to get that after. We're hearing that homeless veterans are already Thank you. We're hearing that homeless veterans are already being targeted for guardianship, which is contrary to what you told us during your last conversation. So, I guess my question is to you, Dr. Atul, the project of Safe Harbor has planning documents that clearly state that the project's objectives are not just to place veterans already in care into guardianships, but to also those on the streets.
▶ 1:11:13During your last testimony, when you came before us, you claimed that those documents were outdated. What parts of those documents were outdated? Thank you, ma'am, and I appreciate that question and opportunity to clarify. This process began as an effort of looking at a long-standing issue of veterans who lack mental capacity for decision-making and what is the best approach to it.
▶ 1:11:40The early document was looking at one of several options um and Project Safe Harbor is looking existing best practices. Thank you. My My time is up, unfortunately, Dr. Atul. If there's a second round, I'd love to be able to follow up. Dr. Melendez, you're recognized for 5 Uh thank you, Mr. Chair, and I uh thank our witnesses for being here today. Mr.
▶ 1:12:04Bartram, how often does the VA conduct oversight on the entities and organizations that have agreements and leases on the West LA campus? So, we have a program management staff at the facility, but uh Mr. Runyan can talk more about the specifics, and Brett can talk about on the contracting with the enhanced use lease to give you more specifics. Um thank you, Congresswoman.
▶ 1:12:30Uh to make clear, uh you know, this is this is a tremendous There There's a lot of challenges here that we have inherited. particularly the West LA Leasing Act allowed for the property to be farmed out to third parties and even has a carve out for UCLA. So, what we've inherited and what we've been working on is the iterative process to make sure that we get this right once and for all. That takes time. That can't happen overnight. So, what are we doing to provide oversight?
▶ 1:12:55Just recently, we had we requested that a inspection of all the EULs be done. I just received that report. We want to make sure that veterans are living in a safe, drug-free environment where they can thrive. And as as you all are aware, that's not happening. And we're taking care of that. But this didn't just happen overnight, and this didn't happen on President Trump's watch. Um excuse me. I know you inherited a mess. We inherited a mess with high inflation, international conflicts.
▶ 1:13:24So, I'm not disputing that. I was just asking, how often does the VA conduct oversight? Is that once a year? Is that continual? Just a ballpark figure, Mr. Bartrum, if you could. And I'm happy to answer that cuz I have the the answer. So, thank you, Congresswoman. We're going to be doing that no less than monthly. Okay, thank you. Mr. Bartrum, the committee staff were made aware of safety and security concerns on campus. I think this has been alluded to.
▶ 1:13:52Do you believe it's appropriate for illegal activities such as drug distribution and prostitution to happen on federal land? I do not. And that's And that's the reason that we've put We've increased VA police security. They've grown from in the 50s to 60s to last year to over 80, and we're moving towards 160. We also just put in place We were just awarded an additional security contract for some additional security. We've put in lighting contract that's put into place.
▶ 1:14:20But as as I fully agree with you on what's been stated earlier, security is job one. The veterans have to feel secure on the campus. And And if I may, there is an important point that needs to be made You know, we have our VA police force, we're increasing our security, but our assistant secretary for the office of security and preparedness met with the LA Sheriff's Office about 2 months ago because we wanted to see if we can engage in a contract for 24-hour patrol support.
▶ 1:14:47We were told that they're down 2,000 police officers and that they their their morale is low and that they're not even to meet their own needs. So, please be assured and we're happy to continue to update you. We are trying to do everything we can to make sure that this uh community for our veterans is safe. Uh thank you. Um what's your current Mr. Bartram, what's your current timeline for when Congress should expect an updated master plan? So, sounds like you're putting things in place. I understand the constraints that you have.
▶ 1:15:13Uh we share those constraints especially with this being National Police Week. Um but uh when do you expect Congress to have an updated master plan? Sure. So, as as you alluded to, you know, we all inherited this and we're building this as we go. I think that uh we will continue to develop our plan over the next uh several months uh and uh Danielle, do you have a time frame? It I'm assuming it'll be towards the end of the year before
▶ 1:15:38What I what I can commit to is again, we are happy to provide you with regular updates. We are very much committed to achieving President Trump's objectives. We are going to achieve those objectives. So, um we're happy to continue to update you and and we look forward to having that finalized plan.
▶ 1:15:55Okay. And Mr. Bartram, how many acres on the West LA campus are currently not being used directly for veterans housing or veteran care? Bart, do you have that number? Uh Congresswoman, I can I can answer that question. Um presently the north northern part of the north campus is impacted by a few things. One is the Brentwood lease that we talked about. That's about 22 acres of land. Um we will be happily providing you with an update when we have the future state of what that is going to look like.
▶ 1:16:24Um we also learned that there are significant environmental concerns which we are drilling down on to fully understand so that we can understand when we can actually develop on those portions of the property and that consumes largely the the northern part of the campus. As for the remainder of the campus, um it's impacted by historical trees and other things. So, we are we are very much and for many months we've been looking at precisely where we can construct and continue to build. Thank you very much. I yield back. The lady yields back.
▶ 1:16:54Representative Kennedy, you're recognized for 5 Thank you, Chairman. Um thank you for being here today for your testimony. I'm deeply concerned that the VA is moving forward with plans to bring thousands of additional veterans to the West LA campus without first addressing the serious safety and operational failures already occurring Expanding housing capacity means nothing if the VA cannot guarantee a veteran safe and stable environment once they Meanwhile, veterans at West LA are reporting drug activity, overdoses,
▶ 1:17:24and major security breakdowns across the campus patrolled by only a handful of officers. So, before the VA expands this effort any further, I do have some questions, Mr. Bartram. Ensuring the safety and security of veterans and employees in the West LA campus should be one of the VA's most basic responsibilities. Do you believe the West LA campus is currently a safe place to live and work? And if not, who within the VA is accountable for fixing that?
▶ 1:17:52So, we agree that safety and security is critical and that we must have a safe and secure campus and that's as I stated earlier, that's why we have increased our security presence to the campus with up to 165 officers that are being on board and we're at 80 right now. We were at 50 last year. We are working we have just approved a new lighting project that will be I think the estimate is about 3 and 1/2 million dollars to expand lighting around the campus.
▶ 1:18:23We have a security project that's going on to support and bring full-time security there while we continue to increase our our our VA police folks. So, there we're doing a lot of things because you're right, we can't have a broken glass approach to this. We've got to have a layered approach for security. We got to make sure they're secure. What I'd like to also add
▶ 1:18:44Mr. Bertram, you're you're currently hiring more officers.
▶ 1:18:46Yes, we are. Okay, how many do you have on on employed right now? Uh the last number I got was 83. 83. And how many are you
▶ 1:18:54Up to 165. Okay, and how many are patrolling at any one given time?
▶ 1:18:57I would have to get back with you that number. Okay, and how do you expect the VA to recruit and retain these officers and keep the campus safe when Secretary Cousins is trying to move forward with changes that could cut pay for many VA officers by $10,000 and drive more officers out the door?
▶ 1:19:16Uh I would uh disagree with that assertion, sir, because what what Secretary has been doing is trying to increase the entry level of our security officers to a GS-6 to increase their pay and to ensure that they have a pipeline for growing so we can develop officers to go up through the ranks. Are you familiar with the cutting or the lowering of pay grade for officers within the VA system? I'm familiar that there was a desire at at that effect.
▶ 1:19:42I think it came through OPM, but uh I'm also familiar that we are moving forward with increasing their uh their classification status and increasing their their their GS levels. So, there are no cuts to officers pay, pay grade, employment
▶ 1:19:57I am not personally aware of them and uh the head of OSP, retired General Regniel, uh could give you more detail on that so we can circle back on that. All right. Well, look, the VA has an obligation to provide veterans, especially those who are with the most basic expectation of safety and security. And right now veterans and employees at the West LA campus are describing serious security failures and staffing shortages.
▶ 1:20:25So, before the VA moves forward with bringing thousands of more veterans, the department needs to demonstrate that it can safely care for veterans already right now President Trump and Secretary Counts have not done that. So, sir, could I add on I we totally agree with you that we need a secure campus for our employees as well as our veterans, but in addition, in the budget, part of the budget plan is $30 million for VHA operations in West LA to support wraparound services and enhance staffing.
▶ 1:20:54So, uh the question was brought up earlier about case managers that allows us to buy more case managers, allow employees or contracts, allows us to support more social workers, allows us to make sure that we build out our our teams. In addition to that, uh several months ago after I got in the seat as the Under Secretary, I directed the West LA they have a mobile health clinic out there.
▶ 1:21:16So, to address some of the issues of mobility with some of our older veterans who are who are out who are in LA, we are now using the mobile clinic on the homeless campus side. So, 3 days a week they can get care right there without having to come over to the to the clinic.
▶ 1:21:32So, we're doing and building that out and in addition to that in the buildings that we're building and uh Brett could give you more details on it, but we're building out community centers that will put in additional aspects such as, you know, some of our stores so people can have access, coffee shops, clinics so that because we have to build a community, not just a housing complex.
▶ 1:21:53I appreciate your optimism. Uh the things that I've heard have uh given me less hope than you are providing here Uh that being said, uh I do want to say this has been years in the making. Every indication thus far it has been a categorical failure of planning and we need to do better for our veterans. Uh I'm out of time, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 1:22:16Gentleman yields back. So, for the members, um I want to let you know that I know how important this is. We are pressed for time. We if you have have questions, please submit those in writing, but that being said, with that, we're going to work with the staff to try to make sure we bring you back for more question. Also, be assured that my questions that I asked, that they do believe that we as Congress have And also that those lease agreements, if we we request that we can get that information.
▶ 1:22:46So, with this panel, I'd like to excuse you. I'd love for you to stay around for the next panel, but um with that, you're excused. Thank you, Our second panel will get ready and we'll get the sign or the name plates changed over and we'll start in a
▶ 1:24:09Do what? Do what? All right, our second panel is now before us. Uh on that panel we have uh Dr.
▶ 1:24:30Nelson Suhu, associate dean of uh graduate medical education and is a designated institutional officer official for the UCLA health system at the University of California, Los Uh Miss Trett Tess uh West LA project director and uh Veterans Collective Community Developer Director of at US
▶ 1:25:00Vets. Richard Valdez, past state commander at the Disabled American Veterans Department of California. And Dr. Jim Zenner, uh or Mr. Jim Zenner, executive director at LA County Department of Military Veterans Affairs. I will ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right hand.
▶ 1:25:24Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the Thank you, and let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the Uh Dr. I I now recognize Dr. Suhu for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony. Good morning, Chairman Bass, Ranking Member Takano, and members of the committee. It is a pleasure to be here My name is Nelson Suhu.
▶ 1:25:52I'm the associate dean for graduate medical education at UCLA's Oh, sorry. My name is Nelson Suhu. I'm the associate dean for graduate medical education at UCLA's School of Medicine, responsible for resident physicians. I have also proudly served as an orthopedic surgeon at the West LA VA for the last 20 years. Taking care of our veterans is a very personal mission to me and a vital service to our community.
▶ 1:26:21My own father, Jack Sue Hoo, served in the Air Force during the Korean War. His service left me and my family with a lasting appreciation for the sacrifices all veterans and their families make for our country. Through my own work, I've witnessed firsthand how UCLA's partnership with the VA strengthens veterans care while advancing the mission of both of our I strive to instill in every resident we train that debt we owe to our veterans.
▶ 1:26:47UCLA resident physicians serve on the VA healthcare team in 57 medical In addition, three quarters of our medical students train and serve veterans at VA facilities. UCLA resident physicians and faculty are involved in every surgery, all inpatient care, and the vast majority of outpatient care at the West LA VA Medical Center. This includes approximately 3,000 surgeries every year and more than 1 million patient visits each year for over 80,000 veterans.
▶ 1:27:15We have also developed critical programs to address veterans' most pressing I've seen firsthand how veterans struggle to navigate care in the community and we train our physicians to understand the social and psychological challenges they face every day. This includes PTSD treatment and research, as well as psychiatric care and advancing substance abuse treatment. Our commitment is reflected in our creation of a specific VA-based track in our psychiatry residency program.
▶ 1:27:41Each year we match eight residents specifically to this track based on their dedication to the mission of serving veterans. While the core of our work at the West LA VA is our medical mission, we also have a lease of the land where Jackie Robinson's baseball stadium is located.
▶ 1:27:57That lease was authorized by Congress in and the VA's Office of Inspector General has concluded on multiple occasions that the lease is fully compliant with the Under that lease, UCLA has agreed to provide rent payments and $13.5 million of in-kind contributions to veterans programs over a 10-year period. This is above and beyond the medical care that we render at the West LA VA Medical Center. UCLA has already exceeded those obligations by over $2 million.
▶ 1:28:27This includes $4 million for the Veterans Legal Clinic where in the last 6 years, UCLA law students and clinic have helped veterans secure an additional $24 million in lifetime It also includes over $4.5 million for the Veterans Family Wellbeing Center which provides veterans and their families wellbeing and resilience Since opening in 2017, the center has welcomed nearly 40,000 attendees at education and community building events and has completed around 10,000
▶ 1:28:57resilience training sessions for over 1,300 participants. These are just two of the many programs and services that UCLA delivers under the lease at no additional cost to the VA or veterans. Our 70-year partnership with the VA and commitment to veteran service also extends beyond our work at the West LA One key example is Operation Mend, a program UCLA helped pioneer alongside the United States military.
▶ 1:29:26As part of that program, we provide free advanced surgical and medical treatment, comprehensive psychological evaluation and support, and intensive treatment programs for post-9/11 veterans with PTSD and traumatic brain injury. Operation Mend, which is part of the Wounded Warrior Project's Warrior Care is the only program of its kind in the nation and has been one of the greatest privileges of my career to help restore function to these veterans using the most advanced surgical techniques.
▶ 1:29:56We recognize that there are questions regarding the long-term future of UCLA's lease at the West LA VA. UCLA is committed to working in good faith with our partners at the VA towards a mutually agreeable solution. Whatever the outcome of these discussions, UCLA will continue to proudly serve veterans at the West LA VA Medical Center. For decades, UCLA and the VA have worked together to train the next generation of advance medical research, and most importantly, deliver the highest quality of care to those heroes who have sacrificed for our country.
▶ 1:30:27I hope my own role in this long relationship honors both my father and every veteran that we serve. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify, and I welcome the committee's questions. Thank you, Dr. Sahou. Written statement Dr. Sahou will be entered into the hearing record, and Ms. Banco, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your opening testimony statement. here today. My name is Teresa Tesoriero.
▶ 1:30:54I'm an 80% disabled Marine Corps veteran active duty suicide surviving widow that has been serving the military and veterans community for over 20 years. Having overcome challenges of my own, I've not known if I would ever walk again, cradled a folded flag, and been immolated by the final crushing echo of the 21-gun salute. I'm a person who knows what lies in the silence alone when the door to your refuge closes on horrifying and life-altering events. I also grew up homeless, and I want to thank you all for the programs and opportunities that allowed me to get up and give back.
▶ 1:31:24Uplifting and supporting what's possible and positive in housing and recovery is just as important and sacred to the team that I work with as it is to me. The West LA VA neighborhood is the first of its kind in scope to remodel, re-purpose, or build a new between one and two dozen buildings in partnership with the VA, veterans, and over 70 stakeholders and partnering In 2018, through a competitive process, the VA selected the West Los Angeles Veterans Collective as the principal developer team of the West LA VA campus.
▶ 1:31:51The principal developer model was chosen by VA because it is the most effective way to cohesively plan and manage such a complex system of housing and services over the long term. The Veterans Collective is three organizations, including a housing developer with extensive mixed-use experience, a non-profit developer with extensive permanent supportive housing experience, and the largest national non-profit provider of veterans transitional housing and services. The Collective isn't just building housing alongside VA.
▶ 1:32:17We aspire to that vibrant, empowering, and deliberate therapeutic community that meets the needs of veterans and families, and where people genuinely want to live. While there are many reasons people become unsheltered, putting on a uniform should never be one of them, and I know you would agree with me. We believe all who served our country deserve a place where they can find community and get gold standard care and services that they need to succeed, not just shelter from the storm.
▶ 1:32:39From the outset in 2018, the Collective leveraged our expertise to build on the existing 2016 framework master plan, started by collecting additional input from veterans and other experts. This work informed updates to the 2016 master plan in 2018, and ultimately the VA's adoption of the 2022 master plan for the permanent supportive housing and services community for both resident and non-resident veterans. We simultaneously worked alongside VA to fulfill National Environmental Policy and National Historic Preservation Act requirements, which started in 2017 and took over 2 years to complete.
▶ 1:33:08Our final design soon after reached full clearance, and our infrastructure and pre-development work with the VA began. A total investment at which current day has brought more than 200 million in critical infrastructure improvements to the VA neighborhood. As we move this crucial work forward, the broader community began to see the physical results of years of planning work grounded in the hopes of the many veterans who longed to call the West LA VA home. Our first development, building 207, previously sat vacant for decades, broke ground in December of 2020, and opened to residents in February of 2023.
▶ 1:33:38The building reached full occupancy within months. The buildings 207's 59 units were just the beginning. Today, if you walk the neighborhood, you can feel the momentum. We've completed six buildings totaling 407 permanent supportive housing units, and six more buildings are under construction that will soon offer an additional 360 homes to veterans in need. By the end of 2026, an astounding 1,089 new permanent supportive homes at the West LA will have been put into service in less than 4 years.
▶ 1:34:05I'm proud to say that as of last year, the principal developer team has raised more than 1 billion in total funding commitments to make all of this possible. As we continue to build housing, we cannot lose strength or sight of managing the housing and ensuring the neighborhood promote safety, improves health outcomes, and overall is the kind of environment that veterans want to live in rather than are forced to live through. It means working as one team, like the master association community partner and provider alliance, spanning the continuum of having housing and services.
▶ 1:34:31We look forward to continuing to work with the VA, other developers, and community partners to create and support these systems of administration for the long-term stability of neighborhood operations. This includes incorporating our previous work with the National Center for Warrior Independence. The nation's largest community for veterans cannot succeed without a strong, honest relationship with the VA. We meet with the VA leadership, including the Office of Asset and Enterprise Management, to become aligned on priorities, resolve issues, and hold ourselves mutually accountable to veterans and the neighborhood.
▶ 1:35:00Communication, coordination, and continuity take constant focus across the span of years and political administrations. Our goals remain fundamentally aligned. We're determined to continue in our mission until no veteran is left sleeping on the streets in the country they fought to protect. I look forward to working with this committee to support our work in the years to come. Thank you. I welcome your questions. Thank you, Ms. Banco. So, verify the written statement of Ms.
▶ 1:35:23Banco will be entered into the hearing Okay, I think we're good now. It's going again. Mr. Valdez, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to provide provide your Thank you, Chairman Bost, ranking member Takano, and members of the committee.
▶ 1:35:45On behalf of DAV Department of California, DAV Cal, I appreciate the opportunity to testify about the West LA campus master plan to provide housing and services for homeless veterans. DAV Cal is a state chartered veterans service organization founded in 1922 which operates independently from the national DAV organization while supporting the same mission.
▶ 1:36:16Yes, it's on. Let me adjust this DAV Cal does this by funding and managing a variety of assistance programs for veterans including benefits and advocacy, employment assistance, and disaster and emergency relief. For decades we have also operated a veteran transportation network providing free rides for veterans to medical appointments at VA facilities.
▶ 1:36:47Mr. Chairman, my my journey began in when I enlisted in the Marine Corps while still in high school. I spent 3 months Oh, excuse me. In January 1967, I deployed to Vietnam and less than 2 months later I was wounded during combat operations. I spent 3 months recovering at the Naval Hospital in Guam. While convalescing I volunteered to return back to my unit.
▶ 1:37:14I extended my tour in December of 1967 and I returned in 1968 during the Tet Offensive. I suffered additional back injuries from mortar fire. During my time in the Marine Corps, I was awarded Purple Heart Combat Action I was honorably discharged, returned home, and began a 30-year career in the aerospace and defense After I retired in 2003,
▶ 1:37:45a DAV service officer helped me apply for and receive VA benefits for my gunshot wound, back injuries, and PTSD. I soon became active with my local DAV chapter, department, and serving as state commander from 2013 to 2014, legislative director from 2014 to 2019.
▶ 1:38:10In February 2015, I had the chance to meet with then VA Secretary Bob McDonald here in Washington, D.C. to talk about the West LA VA draft master plan to provide housing and services for the homeless veterans. Uh Secretary McDonald recruited me to assist with the draft master plan and its implementation. Today, more than a decade later, lawsuits, legislation, and environmental impact studies, VA has yet to complete the plan.
▶ 1:38:41One of the issues the committee is looking at is the role of enhanced lease uses, the West LA campus, including agreements VA negotiated and signed with the oil drilling. As you know, DAV Cal was a party to one of those VA agreements involving donations used for transportation uh those services for the veterans are on campus.
▶ 1:39:05Although I did not negotiate or manage any of those agreements, I can provide background and context for the In March of 2017, VA signed an agreement Breitburn Energy that set in motion the continuation of oil drilling operations from a parcel of land on at West LA.
▶ 1:39:27In exchange, Breitburn agreed to donate a portion of their oil royalties to support transportation services for veterans at West LA. VA then assigned an agreement with DAV Cal to accept those Breitburn donations and use them to transport veterans to and from medical appointments and benefits over there in West LA.
▶ 1:39:50While these agreements were in place from 2017 to 2024, DAV Cal received approximately $897,000 in donations, dispersed $907,000 for transportation services. As reported to the committee last year, this included $667,000 for contracted transport transportation services and $240,000 for vehicle purchased and donated to the VA.
▶ 1:40:16And DAV Cal continues to operate those VA owned vehicles to drive veterans to and from medical appointments at West Uh Mr. Chairman, DAV Cal remains committed to playing whatever other role is necessary to finally establish a real home and community for homeless veterans and their families on the campus. That concludes my testimony and I would be pleased to answer any questions for the committee. Thank you, Mr. Valdez. Suffice it well, the written statement of Mr.
▶ 1:40:45Valdez will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. Zeaner, you are recognized for 5 minutes to provide your testimony. Good morning Good morning, Chairman Bost, ranking member Takano, and the rest of the committee. My name is Jim Zeaner, I'm the director of LA County Department of Military Veteran Affairs, and I serve as the County Veteran Service Officer.
▶ 1:41:10Thank you for the opportunity today to testify regarding the development of the National Center of Warrior Independence in West Los Angeles VA campus. Addressing foundational issues is an absolute necessity if we are to fulfill the president's vision of a National Center for Warrior To fully realize the vision and to deliver on the executive order's directives for self-sufficiency and restored lives, I urge the committee to prioritize three specific actions.
▶ 1:41:38First, the immediate establishment of a federal veterans treatment court on the campus. Second, expansion of affordable housing units combined with critical flexibility in project-based housing programs. Third, addressing the jurisdictional gaps impacting the campus including the policies creating those gaps. President Trump's May 2025 executive order sets an ambitious vision for the campus.
▶ 1:42:01It envisages bold actions so homeless veterans can access the comprehensive care, housing, substance use treatment required to restore their We broadly support the push for additional housing for veterans at West LA, but recognize the need for vouchers and required funding to make it happen. We are seeing some headway with the VA's termination of non-veteran leases and the clearing of the land.
▶ 1:42:25that is an initial step in our goal to address the cycle of homelessness, untreated trauma, and the illicit activities that may undermine the center's success before it even begins. This is where a dedicated on-campus federal veteran treatment court becomes If a federal treatment court is implemented on the campus, my team will collaborate closely with the VA to make sure it has our support and is This court This court could be a critical link to ensure veterans whose actions are tied to untreated behavioral health
▶ 1:42:55issues receive care, not just Nationwide, this model works. It reduces recidivism, improves housing outcomes, and significantly enhances public Building on that stability requires a deeply collaborative approach to In Los Angeles County, we have witnessed the profound impact that the county, the VA, and the local service providers working closely together.
▶ 1:43:21Through our one team initiative, we bring stakeholders together at the same time at the same table. Through the barrier busting work conducted by the one team, we have learned that veterans experiencing homelessness is not a monolithic group. They present with complex circumstances that do not seamlessly fit into the rigid scope of our current eligibility Achieving the president's vision requires not just new facilities, but flexible solutions.
▶ 1:43:48It is important to note that the West LA VA campus sits on unincorporated land, meaning Los Angeles County, rather than the city, is responsible for administering the housing vouchers on the campus. To maximize this effort, we will need a waiver so HUD-VASH project-based vouchers are not counted toward the cap with local public housing authorities. We must also allow veterans at risk of homelessness to qualify for these project-based units.
▶ 1:44:13If we concentrate our most high-need and highest security veterans in one location, we are creating a place where veterans are merely surviving their trauma, rather than recovering and moving forward. To build a resilient community, we need to surround our most vulnerable with the varied life experiences of their peers. To achieve this, we need a diverse portfolio of housing on the campus.
▶ 1:44:35This must include workforce housing for the hundreds of veterans employed on the campus alongside transitional housing for recently separated service members and their families, and our student veterans. Finally, we must confront the jurisdictional issues that are impeding campus operations.
▶ 1:44:50As veterans, we are entirely too familiar with the bureaucratic the frustration of being told our issues are not the responsibility of a specific This passing of the buck represents a lack of accountability and leaves critical gaps in service and safety. This problem is further aggravated by staffing shortages within the campus The Veteran Administration Police Department is saddled with uncompetitive GS positions that hinder hinder the ability to recruit and retain officers.
▶ 1:45:21I have worked to assist the local VAPD in navigating some jurisdictional hurdles, including a a case involving a deceased veteran on the campus. These interactions have exposed systemic Congress must identify opportunities to close these jurisdictional gaps and address the lapses in enforcement At a minimum, veterans accessing the campus have earned the right to a safe, supportive environment in which to get treatment. Establishing the Veterans Treatment Court, expanding flexible housing options, and resolving these chronic jurisdictional shortfalls
▶ 1:45:50are not just policy tweaks. They are the fundamental actions required to honor the campus's original 1888 mission, fulfill the executive order's vision, and help veterans reclaim their independence. Thank you for your time, and I welcome your questions. Thank you, Mr. Zinn. Dinner, uh the written testimony of Mr. Zinn will be entered into the hearing record. And I recognize myself for 5 minutes for questions of our second panel. Dr.
▶ 1:46:17Sohu Suho uh UCLA has been part of Western West LA campus for a long, long time. So, let me ask you plainly, what is UCLA bringing to the table today that directly improves lives of veterans on the campus? Mike microphone Sorry.
▶ 1:46:39In my 25 years as an orthopedic surgeon on staff at the VA and now in an administrative role overseeing our the relationship between UCLA and the VA is really a true partnership. The core of it is our medical mission. Every Every Every day, there are over 200 trainees at the VA.
▶ 1:47:00And all of the faculty All All the attendings at the VA are eligible for faculty appointments at We are bringing the highest quality of care to the I've really seen this A lot of veterans, when they come, rightfully so, are often times suspicious of the care that they're Or Or have a difficult interactions with health care system. One of the greatest things for us is being able to say we're from here from UCLA. We're the part of the team taking care of you to give them confidence, to make them far feel part of of what we're doing.
▶ 1:47:30Um that's been one of the most gratifying thing to see trust open up in patients when they hear where we're from, what we're doing, with the same physicians that are there that are are there in training and teaching and and helping care for them. In addition, myself, I first worked in VA as a medical student in San Diego, then as a resident in in Atlanta, and now here it was a big part of what drove me to be part of the VA as part of my career. we're building the pipeline for the future.
▶ 1:47:58We teach our medical students, our residents, what an honor it is to take care of the veterans, what a special population it is, and how they can be committed to this mission. In my own field, orthopedic surgery, it's very hard to get orthopedic surgeons anywhere. Um but every one of the orthopedic surgeons on our service, at some point in their career were at the VA, and most of them were in my trainees previous to their career. And when they come back, that's something they prioritize.
▶ 1:48:20They want to be part of the VA because they've seen what a special mission it is, how important it Um so it it for for us it it really is a true partnership in that regard. So what then could the veteran that is experienced this, and what would they say to say this happened because UCLA stepped up?
▶ 1:48:41I mean when a veteran receives certain care, they just they they don't necessarily know where the doctor is coming from unless the doctor or or nurse tells them that they're training. But can they actually, because for public relations, and I'm not doing it for just public relations, but I think it's very good that if a veteran could all of a sudden say, "You know what?
▶ 1:49:03If it wasn't for UCLA being here, I may not have got this treatment, or I might not have got this." Is there something there that they can say and wave the flag for? Yeah, you know, it's for better or worse, the the internet now, everyone looks up their doctor. Yep. So it's funny how often they come and say, "Hey, I see you're a UCLA doctor." when they come see me and I I can see that builds such a trust. Like, they know that they're going to get good care. That they know we're part of we're part of the team.
▶ 1:49:29We're there to help it's it's interesting I mean, it's so I haven't even thought of that question. It's so ingrained in the culture. It We're We've been so tight together well before my time and well after my It's almost like a question that it doesn't even rise. Seems like all the veterans know that that this is this is a partnership. This is this is where the where their doctors come from.
▶ 1:49:49think as we're working forward, the the the idea and intent is and you already said, regardless of what happens on the lease and everything like that, it it still gives an opportunity for internships uh for docs to to to provide that care. You know, a lot of but unfortunately, a lot of veterans will look and feel that UCLA's done UCLA has done pretty good for itself over the years.
▶ 1:50:09Accessing the facility and researching opportunities and uh all all the training programs, while the veterans are still waiting to see the campus fully live up to where it's supposed to be. So, are you getting caught in that? In the fear that maybe we lose the opportunity for you to serve us. And I Like I said, I know in your testimony, you said that that it it has nothing to do with the lease. But, the general public would look at it and think maybe it does. Does that make sense?
▶ 1:50:38Um I'm not I'm not quite understanding. Maybe I'm sorry. The And I'm going to try to do this with the time I got left. There's perception and there's reality. Reality is that you and UCLA docs come in. They get to get their training. They they they get an opportunity for all these patients. But, tied with that or what the general public sees is tied with that is a is a baseball stadium.
▶ 1:51:09How do we change that perspective getting rid of the lease. Yeah, I I think again from my perspective the the the core of our relationship is the medical mission. Um you know, as a surgeon and again as an administrator, that's the core of what we do. In my mind, the baseball stadium seems to be a small part of our relationship. Now, I will say I wouldn't want to minimize cuz I definitely have heard stories from veterans that go to the games. Yeah. The team really is interacting with them.
▶ 1:51:36For any individual veteran, it can really be something that helps them reenter from very difficult the challenges they face in life, addiction, post post-traumatic stress disorder. We've heard real stories about how it impacts. So, I wouldn't want to minimize that. I mean, I think overall it's it's a small part of our mission, but you know, in my role as a every patient you help, that's the world to them. So, while it's a small part, I wouldn't want to minimize the impact it has for those veterans that partake in that portion of it, but really the core of what we do is our medical mission.
▶ 1:52:07Thank you.
▶ 1:52:07relationship between UCLA and VA. My time is expired. Uh ranking member, you're recognized for 5 minutes. Yes, um Ms. Brown, you're recognized for 5 minutes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair, and uh thank you, Mr. Takano, for allowing me to go first. I appreciate it. Dr.
▶ 1:52:27Sueho, thank you for being here, and you know, I wanted to just ask a little bit more about um you know, what you do um and how important this training program is. I I wonder if you could address um or if you know off the top of your head, you know, how many doctors, nurses, and social worker social workers that are UCLA educated and VA trained end up going to work at the VA.
▶ 1:52:57Do you have any sense of that? Um yeah, I don't have So, my impression is the vast majority in my personal experience in my own I would have to say every one of the attending physicians at some point I believe rotated at the West LA or may have been at some other VAs. To give you a sense of the scale of relation relationship, as I mentioned, during the course of year, not over 900 of our residents will rotate through the VA at some point.
▶ 1:53:23That's representing over 250 people on site at any one time delivering care to the veterans. you know, I I always my resident my residents always have to suffer through stories from me, but I always tell them, if you ever get a chance to ask a veteran about their service, that you should take that chance.
▶ 1:53:43And I'll I'll never forget about 10 to 15 years ago, I was seeing one of the, you know, few World War veterans that we care for, and I just happened to ask, "Oh, tell me a little bit about your service." Um and he mentioned to me that he was at D-Day. And I'm not a military person, and he but he told me, I don't know if it was a division or a battalion, but it was some huge number. And he said it was the he was the only one that came back.
▶ 1:54:08And those kinds of lessons that we teach our residents and our medical students, I think it grains in them the importance of this mission and makes them want to have this as part of their career. I had a resident of mine 10 years ago in private practice in Seattle called me up and said, they still call me Dr. Sue when they graduate, um "I'm interested in taking a job at the VA in Arizona. What do you think?" And of course, we went over it, but that was based on his experience as a resident.
▶ 1:54:36And he's there now doing the highest He's one of the best residents we ever had. He's there now doing shoulder surgery on those veterans and and taking great care of them. So Yeah, that that's great. So, I'm not sure exactly how the match program works once, um you know, a medical student graduates, um but is there does students ask for a match for a at a at a VA medical center? You know, it's interesting.
▶ 1:55:02I had reference before most uh training programs this VA is a component of their training programs. So, you would match into a training program and you may or may not rotate at a VA depending on your hospital. Something special about our program I mentioned is that we develop a track in psychiatry where you're matching to be the VA. So, we have eight slots at UCLA. We have eight slots at Santa Monica and we have eight slots at the VA.
▶ 1:55:26So, we're picking you because you're dedicated to this mission and we of course expect that's building the pipeline of psych one of the most in-demand specialties in particular to the VA group. We're building a pipeline. Those people are clearly the vast majority of them are going to go work somewhere in a VA across our country. Very good. Well, that mental health component is absolutely critical to the VA. Mr. Valdez, thank you for being here. Thank you for your service to our country.
▶ 1:55:55Thank you for your leadership with regards to disabled veterans and certainly your leadership around the LA this LA campus and and how it has evolved. So, I appreciate it very very much. I was wondering I wanted to ask you what you think representing veterans.
▶ 1:56:16What do you think of VA's plan to bring 6,000 homeless veterans from around the country ultimately to the VA In terms of the plan itself? In terms of what? Uh the uh executive order with regards to bringing the
▶ 1:56:33Uh no, I'm just I I just want you to talk about how how do you think veterans you represent veterans? How do you think veterans across the country would feel coming, you know, leaving a home base and coming coming to the LA campus?
▶ 1:56:51My personal opinion on that, if I was here in Washington disabled and this offer came up, I'd rather be home to have received the same sort of care instead of having to travel across the country. Now, that's just my opinion. Well, that's what I hope for, too, and that's certainly the Elizabeth Dole Act was about that to bring, you know, bring those services into homes cuz that's where veterans want to receive their care if they're if they're able to.
▶ 1:57:18Okay, and um do you think in terms of transportation, it doesn't look like I have a a lot of time, but um maybe we can I can ask this offline, but you know, ways in which we can improve the transportation system. I know my veterans utilize that and it's a long trip from LA um to the medical center and back and if there ways in which we can improve that. So, I'll I'll I'll catch up with you You're welcome. Gentlewoman yields back.
▶ 1:57:48Uh Representative King you're represent you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you. Uh this question is for Ms. Banker. What is US Vets' role in the construction of the National Center for Warrior Vets is one of the three partners of the Veterans Collective. Microphone. Oh, is it not on? I'm sorry. Excuse me.
▶ 1:58:10I think we're good the Collective um has developers who specialize not only in the housing development aspect, but also in services. US Vets is a housing developer, but also the lead service provider for the Collective buildings. All right. Can you speak then about how many security guards are patrolling the enhanced use lease that US Vets Absolutely.
▶ 1:58:39Well, it's actually um a requirement under the PDEUL amendment. So, the PDEUL is the umbrella agreement with VA um that covers all of the the different subsequent sub-leases for the different buildings. There's been an amendment to that that requires all of the PDE well-covered developers to have two security personnel on duty 24/7.
▶ 1:59:04And so those two elements of what we call the safety and security team are one contracted security guard and one trained veteran safety and security specialist. So this is a veteran peer with safety and de-escalation training that patrols all of the different buildings under the collective. Okay. And what communication do you have with the VA and veterans on campus? Well, it really depends on what level of communication.
▶ 1:59:30I mean, we we meet regularly with the office of asset and enterprise management. I personally am responsible for the operation of the safety and security team for the principal developer team. So I have an assigned person that I meet with within OAEM regularly. We have monthly reporting to OAEM.
▶ 1:59:47In addition, if there is an incident that requires VAPD response, because our safety and security team is observe and report only, there's no jurisdiction for them to be able to take action if there's some type of activity going on besides being able to observe and report and hopefully de-escalate. VAPD is the first call. So we have regular communication. In addition to the SST, the staffing component of it, we have from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
▶ 2:00:17talk down cameras that are monitored. So we're able to see, you know, activity that goes on after hours and a warning is issued if, you know, the activity does not disperse. And then VAPD is called by that dispatch service. So there's there's different components that are really intended to speak to the different aspects of safety and security amongst the Ewell buildings.
▶ 2:00:40Because there's a lot of conversation about safety and security, drug use, prostitution, which is very concerning and so how do you believe safety and security can be improved on campus to address the you know, these issues that have been raised in in previous conversations?
▶ 2:01:01Well, I mean, I think one key point that's been made is the fact that you know, the safety and security team that we operate is observe and report. So calls then go into VAPD. I think that increasing the communication and being able to address issues in the timeliest manner possible is really important and I know it can be challenging to do that when understaffed, unfortunately.
▶ 2:01:26So I think also the things that we're doing and what we've put in place in terms of the master association. So working with our developers, outlining the different issues that may be occurring across buildings, trying for prevention and early intervention. So identifying I mean, at its root in the permanent support of housing in the EOLs, you have case management, bash case management.
▶ 2:01:49One of the the key tenants of that is knowing who you're serving, knowing that person, looking for risky behaviors and trying to prevent them before they escalate into something larger. Then there's the community aspect of it, which also speaks to safety and security. Once veterans get to know each other and members of you know, their housing community, they often times look out for each other and they will they will go and they will notify someone if another veteran is in trouble.
▶ 2:02:20That's actually a hallmark of veteran life is looking out for one another. So there's those components all the way up to you know, if there's behavior that may have been noticed, further investigation by property management. There can be wellness checks made, of course respecting the rights of those tenants who live in the apartment style buildings.
▶ 2:02:44there's a whole host of, you know, activities that are going on in order to try to address and prevent issues. We have also previously met with VAPD, but could use additional face time now that the safety and security team is functioning and operational.
▶ 2:03:01We had met with them previously and they gave us information about the scope of some of not publicized operations where they may have identified illegal activity going on and they're surveilling or, you know, collecting information in order to uh you know, address the issue. Thank you. I'm out of time. I yield back. Ranking member, you're recognized for 5 minutes. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:03:26Chairman, before I begin my questions, I'd like to ask unanimous consent to enter in the plan of action into the record so that veterans can finally see a VA's action plan after months of waiting. Without objection. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Zinner, I'd like to begin with you. Thank you for being here, coming all the way from LA. Thank you, Richard Valdez, good friend of mine. But, Mr. Zinner, I want to thank you also for the important work you do for veterans in Los Angeles County.
▶ 2:03:52I want to turn back to VA's use of non-disclosure agreements with non-VA employees. Were you asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement with VA? Yes. Uh which senior level VA officials were in the room for this meeting? Uh it was Dr. Linda Davis was leading the meeting. And I believe Dr. O'Toole was in there. I don't recall the other There were also the interim deputy interim medical center director was also there. Okay.
▶ 2:04:20And this is back back in Back in it was June June June of 2025.
▶ 2:04:2625. Were you given a reason why were you given a reason why you needed to sign an NDA? No. Um how long have you had how long have you been involved in the West LA In your career. was a patient on the 2009 and once I graduated from social work school, I became a provider of grant per diem programs for local non-profit. So from June of 2010 until So it's 2009.
▶ 2:04:52Were you ever asked by VA to sign an NDA before this moment in June of 2025?
▶ 2:04:58No, I was not. So it's unprecedented. Correct. Were you offered time for LA County's attorney to review the NDA before you signed it? I was not. Were you given a copy of the NDA? No. Was it explained to you that the NDA does not cover whistleblower communications or communications with Congress? Not that I remember. Did VA state that the matters discussed in the meeting were private not to be discussed with anyone? Yes.
▶ 2:05:24Was there anything discussed in the meeting that the NDA covered that should that should not be public knowledge? In my opinion, no. As a veteran who lives in LA and a community leader, how did you feel about VA making you sign an NDA to participate in meetings pertaining to West LA?
▶ 2:05:43Yeah, it's it was unprecedented cuz really our success in LA is because we show up at the same table and work together and that's really kind of the president that had been set up to that point and the reason why we had so many more placements in the permanent housing as well as um you know, reducing the amount of veterans falling into homelessness. So that it was yeah. Thank you for that. Mr. Zeller, on my committee staff's most recent trip to LA West LA, they were told that there are only five VA police officers on patrol at any one time.
▶ 2:06:13Five for a 388 acre extremely complex campus and neighboring Seabox that can literally be hours away in LA traffic. So five for all of that. We heard that officers were pulled from as far away as Long Beach VA when they can be spared. West LA's West LA's current staffing leaves officers unable to answer all the calls for help they receive.
▶ 2:06:40We are approaching a real crisis here, especially as staffing and morale continues to worsen with the impending position downgrades and vacancy cuts across the VA police force. VA police are notoriously underpaid in comparison to officers at at the Santa Monica Police Department or LAPD. ICE has been poaching VA officers with $50,000 recruitment bonuses. Mr.
▶ 2:07:05Zeller, how can we fix the critical security issues at West LA when the VA itself is not adequately investing in its police and security? Yeah, two two parts to the to my answer. One is increase the budget. I know earlier in the conversation, there's been movement in that direction. GS6 might not be a high enough pay I would recommend looking at maybe a higher rate for those officers, considering the point that you make with Santa Monica PD.
▶ 2:07:34They make three six figures. So, there's a considerable gap. So, maybe looking at a study salary study in the region and really kind of putting some concerted effort into making it competitive. And on the second part, really looking at the jurisdictional issues that I mentioned in my in my testimony earlier.
▶ 2:07:54VHA directive 73 does not allow sworn PD VA PD deputies to be sworn by local aka the sheriffs, to enforce state and local laws, and that's creating some of the jurisdictional gaps on that campus. Yeah, so VA police can't just they can't do certain things, and by extension, the under secretary or the assistant secretary mentioned contract security.
▶ 2:08:20My understanding is that contract security would also, similarly, have no authority uh deal with many of the situations of security on the campus, is that right? That's correct. Um thank you and I yield back, Mr. And you um Representative Ramirez. Thank you, You can say Ramirez. Ramirez. I'm just joking. I'm messing with you.
▶ 2:08:45It's been a long day, Chairman. Thank you. I appreciate you said it You said it beautifully. Uh if any of you heard me in the previous panel, um I mentioned how I've spent uh a number of years uh running a social service agency in Chicago, uh homeless shelter. So, I've worked with a lot of unhoused populations in Chicago. And for me, it's also really important for us to provide wrap-around services and stable housing for our unhoused neighbors, including specially our veterans.
▶ 2:09:13And and we really need to have adequate staffing, infrastructure, case management, the kind of ratios uh that provide for a case manager to provide comprehensive support services uh for the veterans, and certainly funding uh to be able to support and deliver. I want to uh talk to you, Mr. Valdez. First, let me just thank you for your service and your continued commitment to serving the veteran community. We're deeply grateful and certainly grateful that you are here as a witness today.
▶ 2:09:42From your testimony, I understand that the AV Cal plays a critical role in supporting unhoused veterans. So, my question for you, Mr. Valdez, can you tell me what role the AV Cal has played in the development of housing supports on the West LA campus? And the second part of that question is can you describe any challenges to progress?
▶ 2:10:03I'll leave it there. Sure. In answer to that question, in terms of doing work there at the uh the campus is primarily the uh transportation. However, our involvement with the draft master plan began when I met with the Secretary McDonald.
▶ 2:10:20Mhm. There were issues that that were raised that were presented to me and I offered those VSOs in Los Angeles that when I was in DC that I would raise these with with the secretary and offer a recommendation. He agreed with the recommendation I and asked me to then put together a team of VSO leaders to then work with his special assistant on the development of the master plan.
▶ 2:10:48So, that's basically where we involved with the that particular development in terms of the housing and all. When that began, I put together a road map of objectives that were then presented to the special assistant and the contractor for urban planning when that contractor was awarded. That's great.
▶ 2:11:09So, so let me ask you, part of that road map and recommendations that you put together, what would you say in that road map of if you had to prioritize two or three things as the most effective in serving our veterans?
▶ 2:11:25The most effective that I thought was was important that as the homeless were provided safety, housing, the services that were required, training so that they can reintegrate with society and employment, that I felt it was important cuz I'd seen before where a veteran would be released because they services felt that he was or she was prepared to go out and and rejoin
▶ 2:11:55that it was important to provide those who didn't make it [clears throat] Mhm. to come in at front of the line instead of the back of the line because I felt it was much more important to get them re- re- situated, trained, and then they'd be able to make the choice to return. Got it. So, I'm hearing you say that what you find most effective is housing, safety, wrap-around support services, and training. I really appreciate that.
▶ 2:12:24So, this last question in the last minute I have is for all the witnesses. And I guess we can start with you, Mr. What is the greatest challenge the West LA campus faces serving our unhoused veterans? And how do you think this challenge can be best resolved? I'll start with you and then we'll go all the way to Dr. Sahu. Yeah, I think right now public safety is is the biggest issue.
▶ 2:12:49Not only am I concerned for veterans on the campus, I'm also deeply concerned for the VA employees and the contract employees that work on that campus. If everyone isn't feeling safe, it's hard to accomplish all the other things that we need to accomplish on that campus.
▶ 2:13:03Thank you. So, public safety. Mr. Valdez, anything else to add? Oh, excuse me. Yes, in the road map was safety and training for the males that were on the the campus because there were going to be women veterans also there. And so, they needed to be prepared that hey, look, you're not out on the street anymore. So, training. And there's women here. Thank you. I only have a couple seconds, so I'm going to go to Ms. Bankson and Dr.
▶ 2:13:33Continuity of commitment. Continuity of
▶ 2:13:36overarchingly things have to be systematized in a way that they span decades. It's a 99-year commitment for the leases and it has to continue to function no matter who is in place or what is in place. The the budget also has to back it.
▶ 2:13:51Thank you. Dr. Sahu, 2 seconds. Tell me. I would agree with public safety from our trainees. Great. Public safety and training. Thank you so much, Chairman. I yield back. Dr. Dexter, you're recognized 5 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you to all our witnesses for coming and joining us today. I'm grateful for this committee's focus on veteran homelessness because we have made historic bipartisan progress getting veterans housed and our work as you are talking about is far from over.
▶ 2:14:18I'm committed to ensuring every veteran truly has a place to call home in this country and and that they served in I am hearing the same commitment from you. Our committee staff heard directly from leadership at West Los Angeles last week that they are increasingly relying on the health care for homeless veterans program to provide emergency shelter for veterans experiencing homelessness. As a physician who trained in a VA, I know immediate and accessible care during a crisis can and does save lives.
▶ 2:14:48However, veterans with other than honorable discharges, some of the veterans with the highest health needs are not eligible for this program. According to the by name list data, at least 100 veterans experiencing homelessness in LA have have other than honorable discharges, not dishonorable, not court-martialed, other than honorable discharge. Um and these veterans can't access the care they need. Luckily, I have a bill for that.
▶ 2:15:14Uh the Every Veteran House bill would expand eligibility to all VA homeless programs to veterans with other than honorable discharges. These veterans can already access programs like HUD-VASH and my legislation would create parity so veterans can access the full continuum of housing and supportive services they need. So Mr. Zunner, if a veteran with an other than honorable discharge seeks placement in a health care for homeless veterans program, what options are they are available to them today?
▶ 2:15:44Uh thank you for the question. Um and just to repeat, if there could you repeat the question just Yeah, it's not court-martialed, it's not a dishonorable discharge, it is other than honorable discharges. Um if they come to you, they are not and I'll just say again, they are not eligible for the health care for homeless veterans program, but they are eligible for things like HUDVASH. And so, this lack of continuity is creating barriers for some of the veterans.
▶ 2:16:12And again, it's about 100 in West LA um do not have access to the Healthcare for Homeless Veterans program. So, I'm just asking if they come, what what options do they have? Yeah, for veterans with other than honorables, they have the HUDVASH like you mentioned. They also have grant per diem. The staffing I've ran very large residential programs in LA in the past both HHV and GPD. GPD funding is very minimal compared to HHV. Okay.
▶ 2:16:41HHV allows for a lot of a lot of minor staff that are constantly walking around and monitoring veterans in the program as well as case managers with higher credentialing. Great. And so, there's some resources. Just there's a lack of clarity or continuity, I guess, is the the thing that we're trying to address.
▶ 2:17:03And um I I would also want to know for National Guard Reserves, they are also not eligible for some of these programs. Is that an issue that you've encountered in LA? Yeah, we we have the LA Veteran Collaborative where we talk about barriers in the community and that often comes up as the unmet needs of our National Guard and Reservists. And so, that's where county really comes in and plays as big a part as we possibly can. Okay.
▶ 2:17:28On solving those gaps.
▶ 2:17:29But clearly more resources would be helpful. We need more federal resources.
▶ 2:17:33Okay. And Mr. Chair, it is the intent of the bill that we've proposed it would open up for our veterans from the National Guard Reserve to have the same access. So, I I also want to just pivot in the last minute. A major focus of the Center for Warrior Independence is veteran self-sufficiency. Many veterans have permanent and total disabilities and live on a fixed income from their VA benefits.
▶ 2:18:00With the cost of housing soaring across this country, many of those veterans will continue to use subsidies to afford rent, and you were just speaking of this. It seems to me that the only real path to self-sufficiency for these folks would be creating housing that's actually affordable, and I'm sure LA is not different than my district in Portland, Oregon. So, Mr. Zinner, do you have concerns about this self-sufficiency metric and how it could be implemented? Yes.
▶ 2:18:28Yeah, we really need to focus on the affordable side. There's a lot of veteran employees of the VA on that camp working on that campus that are GS-5, They have to travel over 2 hours to get to work and and go back home. And so, we need to look at some workforce housing. Also, for our transitioning service members and their families coming to LA, it's a very difficult place to come into. Yet, we have hundreds coming back to LA. That's another opportunity that that we should look at.
▶ 2:18:57But yeah, affordability is really a big issue and the US is not the complete answer. No, agreed. And Mr. Chair, I know my time is up, but housing is We are creating more veterans as we speak, and I think we absolutely need to work together, and I look forward to doing that with you and this committee. Thank you.
▶ 2:19:13Thank you, the gentlewoman yields back. Ranking member Takano, you have closing I do. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses who flew in from Los Angeles to be here with us today. So, thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, during this hearing, we received emails from a veteran at West LA who needs help and is facing eviction. We're trying to trouble this situation in real time from the dais because VA continues to fail this veteran.
▶ 2:19:41And as we have demonstrated, OCLA has not been the most responsive to my staff, and I hope I'd hope to ask the VA witnesses about this, they are gone. VA must do better, and I hope we can work together to make sure we troubleshoot the these sorts of things together. Um I look forward to VA complying with my request for copies of signed non-disclosure agreements and a list of individuals who signed them by 5:00 p.m.
▶ 2:20:09I have urged the VA to stop using the these NDAs as you have, Mr. Chairman. Uh they seem only to serve uh as an intimidation tactic, not for serious purposes of protecting sensitive information. Veterans, Congress, and the public deserve transparency so that we can hold VA accountable uh for its care of those who served.
▶ 2:20:30That being said, I'm extremely concerned about the future of the National Soldiers Home, uh but stand ready to give VA and its partners the support that they need to right the ship. We have the opportunity to do something truly great at West LA and with a National Center for War Independence if executed with full funding, full staffing, and the best interest of veterans in mind. Ending veteran homelessness is a goal that I truly believe we can achieve, but we have to get this right in Los Angeles.
▶ 2:21:00Veterans' lives depend on it. I yield back, sir. Gentleman yields back, and I want to thank all the witnesses for joining us here today. You know, this uh was a very productive. I wish it would we'd had more time. Uh hopefully, as I promised, we will try to get back to this issue, but I would appreciate and I appreciate the health care discussion of what ties uh West LA to UCLA, but I'm still not understanding where the baseball stadium is a benefit to
▶ 2:21:31the veterans to the to the West LA campus. I'm hoping to hopefully get that answer at some time as well. I do look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, the president, Secretary Collins, to ensure that the leases and contracts uh uh principally benefit the veterans on the LA campus like it is supposed to be.
▶ 2:21:55As you are concerned that you have about those the the contracts that say we're not supposed to talk with the the leases that way. We should have opened we've had that And again, thank you for being here and I want to also say this. I want to say thank you. This is National Police Week and that doesn't that's all police, the police in this room as well as the police on the campus that we can see how important they are to have around. And I ask unanimous Yeah, one thing. Mr.
▶ 2:22:25Chairman, I might I suggest might might we do like a even a full committee or some sort of site hearing together in West LA at some We'll check schedules, see what we can do that. Yes. I ask unanimous consent that all members shall have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks including any extraneous material. Hearing no objection, so ordered. This hearing is now adjourned.