▶ 0:04:20Turned out great. Yeah. Jeez. Today, the subcommittee will receive testimony from the honorable hung kao, acting secretary of the navy. Admiral daryl caldwell, chief of naval operations, and general eric smith, commandant of the united states marine corps. This hearing comes at a consequential time for the navy and the marine corps. Since last fall, our naval forces have operated at high operational tempo in support of counter-narcotic efforts in the western hemisphere.
▶ 0:04:49Today in the middle east, our sailors and marines continue to demonstrate their unmatched ability to protect or project power, deter aggression, and protect american interests in one of the world's most complex and consequential theaters. It is critical that the iranian government never possess the ability to produce nuclear weapons and have profound respect for the bravery and professionalism of our sailors and mariners and marines.
▶ 0:05:18However, these operations are not without cost. Our munition supply stockpiles are. Our fleet has deferred maintenance, critical maintenance, and our service members have been operating on an extended deployment schedule. Despite our focus in the middle east and elsewhere around the globe, china still remains our pacing threat.
▶ 0:05:39Today, china surpasses the us navy in total number of warships in their fleet, and the shipbuilding capability and capacity is estimated to be over 200 times greater than our own. By most assessments, china now holds a considerable advantage over the united states in munitions stockpiles and production capability and capacity. It is. Against this backdrop, we will discuss the navy's fy 2011 budget request today.
▶ 0:06:07The navy's fy 27 request totals 377.5 billion, which represents a 23% increase over fy 26. Request is split between 300 and 38.7 billion in discretionary funding and 38.8 billion in mandatory. I think it's worth noting that the mandatory funding is subject to legislative dynamics outside the departments and this subcommittee's control.
▶ 0:06:33I'm concerned that many priority programs are funded on navy's mandatory side of the ledger. The navy's fy 27 request makes a significant down payment toward growing the fleet through the department's ambitious golden fleet initiative, including over 60 billion in discretionary funding for shipbuilding. This is kind of historic investment that required to reinvigorate our U.S. shipbuilding capability.
▶ 0:07:01However, funding alone does not guarantee on time delivery and is no substitute for sound program management and rigorous oversight. Speed without accountability is how programs go sideways. The navy's cost to complete request for shipbuilding totals 2.6 billion in fy 27.
▶ 0:07:19Delayed contracts now rival the cost of the ships themselves, despite significant investment in submarine programs and industrial base, columbia class and virginia class programs are delayed by as much as 18 to 42 months. Respectfully, carriers, destroyers amphibs all face growing delays to future ship deliveries.
▶ 0:07:43Shipyards that will be essential to delivery delivering navy's golden fleet are plagued by workforce challenges and high attrition rates. I'm concerned that significant funding for the maritime industrial base has been requested in the mandatory funding side of the ledger. It's not enough to add ships to the budget. We must appropriately invest in the growing workforce, increasing capacity and supporting innovation for the industrial base to support production.
▶ 0:08:10The budget proposes 22.6 billion for navy weapons procurement, of which 11.8 billion is requested in discretionary funding. Critical munitions such as the tomahawk missile and other air-launched weapons, are mostly budgeted for in the mandatory budget process. Procurement dollars for low cost hypersonic weapons are funded exclusively in mandatory. Once again, I'm concerned by this approach.
▶ 0:08:39I have long advocated for supplemental funding to address the munitions shortfalls and hope we can receive a request from the department soon. Real soon. Naval aviation remains america's most powerful and responsive strike instrument. Operations in the middle east have once again demonstrated what carrier based air power can accomplish when properly resourced and led.
▶ 0:09:01The navy's request makes critical investment in aviation, proposing to procure 123 aircraft in fy 27, including six additional ee2e2s, a platform that has proved indispensable in centcom operations. I'm concerned, however, that the significant funding for the f-35 program, our only fifth generation fighter in production, is heavily budgeted once again in mandatory.
▶ 0:09:30That said, I'm happy to see that your budget documents. Note the navy's commitment to a sixth generation fighter. I understand that the department intends to make a long awaited downselect for the navy's fax program this summer. My support for this capability and the fleet's requirements for a sixth generation fighter remains unwavering. I look forward to seeing this program move forward.
▶ 0:09:52Finally, turning to the marine corps, the fy 27 request reflects continued force design transformation with priorities centered on fielding marine littoral regiments, accelerating the medium landing ship, modernizing long range precision fires, and anti-ship capabilities to operate inside contested maritime spaces.
▶ 0:10:13The request also includes investments in marine aviation modernization and counter-drone capabilities, as the marine corps seeks to field new capabilities under force design. It is critical that the acquisition programs are built on sound requirements and realistic schedules. Before we hear from our witness, I'd like to. Witnesses. I'd like to recognize the distinguished ranking member, miss mcclellan, for any opening comments. >> thank you, Mr. chair. Mr.
▶ 0:10:44Secretary, Mr. acting secretary, good to see you. Admiral. Good to see you again. This is your first hearing to the committee. So very welcome. And general smith, it's always a pleasure to see you. I look forward to working with all of you. I am pleased that this year we have a comprehensive conversations with the navy and the marine corps on the budget. And once again, shout out to the marine corps for the good job. Thank you. Waiting for everybody else's.
▶ 0:11:08Um, so we do have your justification documents and the staff has received several briefings on your request. But to be clear, the size of the overall request for the defense spending is shocking. In a base budget, the department of defense requests over $200 billion over last year's enacted level. And when combined with the mandatory funding for defense requested through reconciliation, it's an increase of over $400 billion.
▶ 0:11:36That's nearly a 44% increase in spending over the last two years. And this request does not include the cost to cover the war in iran. In essence, along with the upcoming supplemental, we will see the department's request approaching $1.6 trillion. We review the navy's budget amongst the ongoing war in iran now, and I understand the uss gerald ford is finally on her way home. But the lincoln and the george h.
▶ 0:12:02W bush are still deployed with their groups in centcom. And at least 5000 marines are also deployed on amphibious assault ships in the region. In addition to the threats that our sailors and marines face, I'm concerned about the broader cost of the war, the skyrocketing cost of fuel will limit the navy and the marine corps ability to conduct exercises for the rest of the year. We just had a hearing with secretary of defense hegseth.
▶ 0:12:31And, uh, we pointed out to him that the standard fuel price for the services has increased from $154 to $195 a barrel. The department of the navy is also facing fiscal holes in their military personnel budgets, and these holes require a reprograming request that will leave other programs without the necessary funds for them to be successful.
▶ 0:12:58Clearly, this war has been very costly, and we need to and it needs to come to an end. Our navy and marine assets need to return home and train for the peer to peer threats we face. Mr. secretary, I continue to be concerned about the ability of the navy and the and the industry to provide the ships and submarines we purchase on time and importantly, on budget.
▶ 0:13:19I know the administration has designated admiral guter to oversight the first submarine director reporting, uh, portfolio manager. But as secretary, this challenge now falls to you, and I look forward to hearing for your plans on this subject. I'd also like to understand better the request for the guided missile battleship.
▶ 0:13:43$16 billion for the first ship, and approximately $43 billion for a total of three ships over the next five years. That's another extraordinary cost for the navy, and frankly, it seems unaffordable with this year's one point. Um, almost as I said, $6 trillion budget is a high water mark for the next few years. But in the next year, we will also have another pay raise for the troops, which they deserve.
▶ 0:14:12But I want to add that I hopefully hope that there's a pay raise for civilian personnel, which also deserve increased costs for their inflation and possibly fuel that they and their families are facing. You can see that cost for personnel, exercise and exercises and maintenance do not decrease. Large procurement bills for the navy cannot come at the cost of the health and safety of our personnel. Mr.
▶ 0:14:36Secretary, I know that health and safety of sailors and marines under your watch is important to you, and I know that you're going to prioritize it. So once again, I look forward to working with you all to ensure that everyone has what they need to execute their mission successfully and return home safely. Again, welcome you all to the committee. I look forward to your testimony. I yield back, Mr. chair. Thank you. >> I thank the gentlelady. Gentleman, your full written testimony will be placed on the record. Uh, please give a brief summary of your statements.
▶ 0:15:07Secretary cao, the floor is yours. >> good afternoon, chairman calvert, ranking member delano delauro, ranking member mccollum. Ladies and gentlemen of the house appropriations committee. Thank you for allowing me to testify before you today.
▶ 0:15:22American sailors and marines are currently on the front lines of freedom in operations to protect our republic, lincoln and bush carrier strike groups and tripoli amphibious ready group with the 31st marine expeditionary unit are in the arabian sea protecting merchant ships and stopping illicit shipping by terrorist regime destroyers arleigh burke, bulkeley, oscar, austin and gonzales are protecting our allies in the mediterranean against cruise missile attacks from iran in the caribbean, iwo jima arg is stopping narco
▶ 0:15:53Terrorists from poisoning americans with illegal drugs in the pacific, boxer argue and destroyer squadron seven are enforcing the freedom of navigation in the south china sea. At home, we're preparing makin island and uss dwight d eisenhower, a 49 year old nuclear powered aircraft carrier, for deployment. And on the southern border, our sailors and marines are standing watch tonight saying nothing will hurt you. Not on my watch. Three weeks ago, I was tasked by president trump to lead the united states navy and united states marine corps.
▶ 0:16:24My three priorities are to take care of our sailors and marines, build ships and protect our homeland. 120 years ago, the great white fleet extended america's reach across the globe. We're currently at the forefront of history with a budget that will create the golden fleet, which renews that maritime dominance. We have an obligation to give our sailors and marines the very best equipment to do their jobs.
▶ 0:16:45In our historic budget of $377.5 billion, we're adding 34 new ships, varying from small to large combatants, 123 new aircrafts, along with five unmanned ships. In five years, we will add 122 manned and 63 unmanned ships. We're funding the readiness of our fleet to 95%. We're procuring exquisite munitions to keep our forces outside the weapons engagement zone, while investing in research and development for the fight of the future.
▶ 0:17:14More importantly, we're increasing the service member pays, investing in family and unaccompanied housing child development centers so that our sailors and marines have a safe, clean, and comfortable place to live and not have to worry about their families when deployed in harm's way. We have greatly exceeded recruiting and retention goals, and that is due solely to the sheer leadership of president trump and secretary hegseth.
▶ 0:17:36Last week, I was aboard uss gerald r ford, uss winston churchill and uss bainbridge as they returned from an 11 month combat deployment in two theaters. Do not believe the fake news that claims food shortages, backed up toilets and low morale. What I witnessed were motivated and young, young, happy americans pushing the boundaries of performance for their country. It is imperative that we pass this budget.
▶ 0:18:04Ship construction and readiness were built pairs for iraq and afghanistan for 20 years. While our industrial base atrophied, america's peer competitors grew stronger and threatened our sovereignty. Their 100 year plan was had one goal total global domination. Only one thing stands in their way. That is the united states of america.
▶ 0:18:24The navy and marine corps are america's 911 force capable of being anywhere as a carrier strike group or marine air-ground task force with overwhelming firepower, as we saw in absolute resolve and epic fury. A year ago, I testified in my confirmation hearing that I would create the most lethal navy and marine corps team the world has ever seen. I will keep that promise. Having worn the cloth of our nation for 32 years, most of which was in combat.
▶ 0:18:49I also do this because I will not allow my oldest son, who will be commissioned as a second lieutenant in the united states marine corps, ten days to go to war. To war the way I did. Without the equipment that we needed. I will not allow this to happen to any of america's sons or daughters. They signed a blank check to this nation up to and including their lives, and we owe it to them to do our due diligence to fund a historic budget that will care for them and their families, while giving them the tools to answer the call.
▶ 0:19:18I've seen firsthand what communism and authoritarian regimes have done to thriving nations. Members of my family were murdered by communists in 1975. We had no flag to stand under or country to call our own, but the united states gave us a home. It gave us hope and a future. I have dedicated my entire adult life to defend this nation under god. So this would never happen to my children, your children or grandchildren.
▶ 0:19:45Thank you again for the opportunity to testify before you. I'm ready to answer your questions. >> thank you, Mr. secretary. Now recognize admiral cordell for your remarks. Chairman ken calvert ranking member mccollum. >> ranking member delauro and distinguished members of the committee. Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to testify on the posture of the united states navy. I'm honored to be joined by acting secretary of the navy. Cal, my good friend, general smith.
▶ 0:20:13We appreciate the committee's steadfast support for our sailors, marines, civilian workforce, and their families as well. For the resources you provide to defend our nation. This past year, our navy celebrated 250 years of america's seapower.
▶ 0:20:30Today, our founding fathers would scarcely recognize the modern fleet ballistic missile submarines deterring strategic attack, nuclear powered aircraft carriers projecting power across the globe and in all domain naval force delivering precision lethality at scale. And while the platforms have changed, one truth has not the sailors remains. The sailor remains our greatest competitive advantage and the heartbeat of our fleet.
▶ 0:20:57This july, on our nation's 250th birthday, our sailors will carry that legacy forward wherever our nation requires presence, presence, power and resolve. Since assuming the duties of chief of naval operations, I have been focused on one central objective ensuring the navy never loses its differentiated value.
▶ 0:21:18In february, we released the united states navy fighting instructions, which is designed to operationalize my priorities of foundry fleet and fight, and to provide clear guidance on how we build, generate and employ naval combat power for conflicts. We must be prepared to win. These instructions reflect a simple reality.
▶ 0:21:38The navy's value lies in our ability to generate decisive combat power from the sea, with tailorable formations, sustain them forward, and deliver lethal effects across every domain at the time and place of our choosing. Globally, operation epic fury is proving in real time what the navy delivers for persistent combat power from the sea. Sovereign options independent of basing, resilient under pressure and able to strike decisively.
▶ 0:22:08That is our differentiated value on full display. To preserve that advantage, we are executing a hedge strategy to ensure the fleet we built today is ready for the fight we face now, and adaptable and scalable to the one we will face tomorrow. That strategy is realized through the golden fleet initiative, a fleet design that blends high and lower end combatants, integrates robotic and autonomous systems, and enables scalable formations to outpace emerging threats.
▶ 0:22:37This approach increases our ability to scale, combat, mass, distribute risk, and maintain escalation dominance against the operational challenges our combatant commanders face globally. It also requires integrating technologies like artificial intelligence and advanced manufacturing, directed energy and containerized systems is operational capabilities that expand reach, persistence and lethality across our kill chains and kill webs.
▶ 0:23:05Our fy 27 budget request is strategy driven and aligned to the department of the navy's priorities and the objectives of the national defense strategy, leveraging the concepts outlined in the united states navy fighting instructions to ensure our investments directly strengthen the foundry, the fleet, and the way we fight it reflects disciplined choices to ensure we first always field a credible and highly effective sea based strategic deterrent.
▶ 0:23:33And second, we invest in the right capabilities that preserve our warfighting advantage. To do that, we focus on four priorities sailors. First, quality of service is not a luxury. It underwrites combat readiness and must always be our first priority. Second, the foundry, the foundries for combat power is forged and we must not use it as a bill payer. A hollow foundry results in a hollow navy. Third, the fleet. The fleet is the most flexible, decisive military instrument of national power.
▶ 0:24:02Therefore, we must fill the right mix of forces to realize the golden fleet's full potential through a smart application of the head strategy. And fourth, the fight winning will depend on the strength and adaptability of our kill chains and kill webs. From robust counter targeting to leveraging new stealth technology, to an abundance of longer range munitions to enhance mission command, we must integrate and synchronize our capabilities seamlessly with our joint force teammates, our partners, and our allies.
▶ 0:24:33It is the honor of my lifetime to serve as your chief of naval operations. With your continued partnership, we will ensure the united states navy remains the most capable, most ready, and most lethal maritime force in the world. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. >> thank you, admiral. Commandant smith, you're recognized for your remarks. >> good afternoon, chairman calvert, ranking member mccollum. Ranking member.
▶ 0:25:01Delauro, I'm honored to appear before you today alongside acting secretary cao and admiral cordell. To represent your marine corps, I would like to focus on answering your questions. So I'm going to keep my comments very brief. First, I'd like to emphasize the significance of this year's president's budget. It is a generational investment that supports the marine corps top four focus areas one, restoring a 3.0 amphibious ready group marine expeditionary unit presence.
▶ 0:25:27Two, setting the theater for potential future conflict. Three accelerating modernization and lethality, and four building and sustaining a lethal force. Restoring a 3.0 amphibious ready group marine expeditionary unit presence is our north star. It consists of three continuously forward, continuously forward deployed amphibious ready groups.
▶ 0:25:49Marine expeditionary unit teams, one source from the east coast, one from the west coast and one episodically deployed from okinawa, japan, each embarked on three amphibious warships, one big deck and two small boys. The amphibious ready group with the marine expeditionary unit is the most agile, versatile and responsive formation of the joint force. It's how our nation's leaders sustain forward posture, deter aggression, and respond to crisis or conflict across the globe.
▶ 0:26:17Today, we have three amphibious ready group marine expeditionary unit presence. It is a strategic value and its strategic value is clear. The 22nd marine expeditionary unit is combating narco terrorism operations in the caribbean, while the 31st marine expeditionary unit and the 11th marine expeditionary unit are providing operational flexibility to maintain security and stability in the middle east. But this is not something we can sustain.
▶ 0:26:41We need to enhance our amphibious warship readiness and increase the size of our amphibious force. I want to extend my sincere appreciation to the secretary of war, the department of the navy, and my shipmate, daryl caudle, for their unwavering support towards our shared goal of restoring a 3.0 amphibious ready group marine expeditionary unit presence. Our second focus area is setting the theater. We're committed to protecting our interests, deterring adversaries.
▶ 0:27:07Reassuring allies, and creating a more agile and resilient global sustainment network, one that seamlessly integrates with the joint force. To achieve this, we're ensuring an optimized force posture while also investing in lateral mobility, pre-positioned equipment and supplies, digital manufacturing and additive manufacturing, and enhanced installation resilience.
▶ 0:27:29We're refining our approach to logistics, prioritizing resilience, speed, and adaptability to generate and sustain forces. Our third area of focus is accelerating modernization and lethality. Force design underpins everything we do.
▶ 0:27:45We remain committed to modernizing everything from our marine expeditionary units to our marine expeditionary forces, focusing on precision fires, air defense, unmanned systems, resilient command and control, and electromagnetic warfare. We're gaining momentum, but we have to accelerate to ensure our marines are more lethal, survivable, and resilient the day before a conflict starts. And finally, we're building and sustaining a lethal force.
▶ 0:28:13The quality of life of marines and their families directly impacts readiness, retention, and lethality. We are deliberately investing in marines and their families to improve living conditions, institutionalize marine corps total fitness, and to ensure support for family resources. Because they say you recruit the marine, but you retain the family. And I can guarantee you that is true in my case.
▶ 0:28:36Anyway, before I close, I want to take a moment to recognize the members of this committee and other committees with jurisdiction over our national defense, who will be retiring. On behalf of all marines. Thank you. Thank you for your dedicated service to our nation. Thank you for your leadership and for your partnership. Your constant and steadfast support has ensured the readiness of our marine corps, of your marine corps. We wish you the very best in the next chapter of your service. I'd like to close by stating your marines are ready.
▶ 0:29:03Your corps is a globally responsive, lethal combined arms naval expeditionary force that is capable of projecting power from sea to land and from land to sea, and maneuvering across multiple domains in contested environments to deter, deny and defeat adversaries. Thank you again for your trust and support, and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you. Commandant, we'll go on to questions.
▶ 0:29:28Um, I'll start out, uh, the fy 2011 budget request includes 38.8 billion of the department's navy department of navy's 377.5 billion request in mandatory funding, including 39 of the 47 requested f-35s, 1.5 billion out of 2.4 billion requested for f-35 modernization.
▶ 0:29:50All the radars required for the f-35 program, 2 billion out of 3 billion requested for the tomahawk missile procurement, 3.6 billion out of 4.3 billion, or nearly 85% requested for the standard missile, 1.9 billion for six medium landing ships for the marines and 9.7 billion for facilities sustainment, restoration and modernization.
▶ 0:30:18The navy has significant budget shortfalls in critical programs that this committee had to fix in fy 26 because the department's pursuit of reconciliation funding. Mr. secretary, many high ranking or high priority items are included in department of the navy's mandatory request. We know reconciliation funding isn't exactly a slam dunk around here.
▶ 0:30:40So what is the risk of long term health and stability of these programs from this funding strategy, we've been beating the drum for industry to ramp up production and talking about the need to revive the defense industrial base. What kind of message do you think this approach will send to the industry, where more than half of the f-35 budget and nearly 11 billion in critical navy munitions is requested in mandatory funding?
▶ 0:31:11>> chairman calvert, we need all of this. There's it's really hard to to differentiate between mandatory and and discretionary because we need it all in order to to make these changes for the navy. We we've taken such a hit over all the years, uh, fighting in iraq, afghanistan, all that money was going to fund the army. And we took we bow waved everything from from ship repair to, you know, where we went from six years for dry docking all the way to ten years for dry docking.
▶ 0:31:40And that took a toll on our ships, which takes a toll on our sailors and our family. So we had to write a budget that includes both of those because we we need all $1.5 trillion. >> yes, I understand that. And I haven't gotten into the supplemental, which we'd love to have, but if the department needs to, to submit that to the committee as soon as possible, because we need to get to work on that. But, uh, uh, because it seems the appropriations process is broken up into three chunks.
▶ 0:32:09Obviously, the baseline budgeting process, a supplemental that that I understand that you guys are going to come up here with pretty soon. And lastly, the reconciliation bill. Uh, admiral, I think, and general smith, uh, asked you the same question. Are you concerned about the amount of funding for munitions in reconciliation? >> chairman? I mean, I am concerned I mean, I think acting secretary put it well, we need both bills passed, and I think we need a supplemental as well.
▶ 0:32:38And because the the discretionary mandatory bills were not done with epic fury in mind. So all three are important. Uh, I do have concerns in the mandatory lines with munitions f-35 and vishram. And those three would be the concern areas for me. I think there's some ships that concern me too, with lsm being their hospital ship and some other ships that are in mandatory. So, uh, without both being passed. I am deeply concerned. >> yeah.
▶ 0:33:05Well, uh, a number of us are in favor of obviously increasing the, the, the top line, and we're obviously interested in the supplemental. I, it's needed. I, you know, we've been going through a number of conflicts of late and, uh, I know we've eaten up a lot of our own m accounts in order to fund this. And we need to get this done as quickly as possible. That's why we need a supplemental.
▶ 0:33:30Then lastly, the reconciliation part of this, and, you know, we haven't done reconciliation part two yet, so we need to get through that before we get to the part three. But, uh, the sooner you get information to us, the better that the potential outcome will be on this. With that, miss mccollum. >> thank you. Mr.
▶ 0:33:48I think at our if I'll take a second at our meeting, we as a committee made it very clear to the secretary that doing, um, budgeting for you for our services through reconciliation is, is is not it just doesn't work. The authorized is authorize it. Um, and then, uh, then there's the navy went through all this broken glass, as they called it last year.
▶ 0:34:18And then we had to go in, we had to open up our budget again and, and cut other things. And, um, you know, I know the senate has its rules in the way that it does things, but it is not, in my opinion, sustainable or anything that I have a lot of confidence in after it passes, that it's really going to serve the needs of what you need to have done, because we have to go back in and readjust everything else that doesn't get funded, because it's mandatory versus discretionary, and it needs to be built into your base.
▶ 0:34:48So, um, just we, I just want you to know that we had that very serious conversation with the secretary of defense. Uh, the administration has requested a total of 43, $43 billion over future years of defense programing for its new guided missile battleship, which is part of president trump's golden fleet. This includes $1 billion in procurement for long leads for fiscal for fiscal year 2027.
▶ 0:35:14However, the concept design is still underway in this year 26, and right now, we have no idea the length of the ship, how it will be fueled, what munitions it will carry. And it's concerning that the navy's asking committee for funding, without the full understanding of what the final concept or true construction schedule will look like. So, Mr.
▶ 0:35:40Secretary, given the cost of this new fleet, which I believe may be between 10 and 25 ships, we don't even know that yet. What is the plan for how they will be used? And also, if you would please, how will the navy absorb the cost of this new fleet with over. With its overall budget for defense expected to decrease after the coming year?
▶ 0:36:02In other words, the tales that go with these ships, given the delays we've seen in the submarine and destroyer and frigates, what is this new mythology that's going to be used with the navy to ensure that this ship comes in on time and on budget. But before we do that, we have to know what the ship is. >> thank you. Member. I, I understand your concern.
▶ 0:36:27We've always had a requirement for as long as I was in uniform for a large combatant, what we call the cg back in the days. But we need something with high capacity 200 vls cells that includes conventional prompt strike and something that can move fast even with nuclear power. I mean, we saw when ford, the uss ford, was able to move from venezuela to the mediterranean in five days, that you can't do that on, uh, on gas turbine. I mean, this is what we need nuclear power.
▶ 0:36:56And that's why we're investigating on the power for the battleship. >> I understand that, but you don't have the plans completed for these ships yet, correct? Or am I am I incorrect? You you know how long they're going to be. You know what? Well, they're going to carry, you know all that. >> well we we have an idea of what what it is because of, uh, again, the cg design again, I will refer to, uh, admiral caudle for the requirements that the fleet has. But like I said, as long as I was in uniform, we needed a cg, which is a large combatant.
▶ 0:37:25And this, this ship would be a lot larger than the the cg. And that's why we call it the battleship. >> uh, um, ranking member mccollum the, the need for a large combatant is, is pretty clear. We need significant payload volume for all future fights. We need that payload payload volume to scale, not only with the munitions we're going to have today, but future munitions. We don't know.
▶ 0:37:48We need high electrical power density for directed energy, railgun type technologies that only that ship can produce. I'm thrilled that we finally landed on the fact that it's going to be nuclear. That was the initial idea, and we batted around to deliver it sooner, to make it conventional. And we came back around full circle to make it nuclear. And that's the exact right answer as a command and control ship that I can forward posture and run surface action groups out of.
▶ 0:38:15This is exactly the high end of a capital ship and the high, low mix in my fighting instructions, call out for. >> well thank you, I don't doubt for a minute your need. I don't. But here's what I need. $1 billion in procurements for long lead items. We have no idea what the ship design is, how it will be. Now we know how it will be fueled nuclear, right? What munitions will it carry?
▶ 0:38:44How many people are going to be, you know, crewed on it all, all the things that you're going to have to put on the ship. And so. I don't doubt that you don't need it. But I, as the fiduciary person that I'm supposed to be on this committee, that's my constitutional responsibility. I need to know what I'm buying. Um, because. >> I. >> don't I don't know what it is yet. We haven't, we haven't seen it.
▶ 0:39:13You know, is it going to can we buy ten? Can we buy 25? With all the cost overruns, with everything else he said. So it's a concept, I don't deny that, that you don't need it. But with a budget this large and with what we're facing in shipbuilding, which I know you're all working on correcting, not taking that away from you, you're all working on correcting it. It's just a lot of money to put out there. When the inflation increase came out today, it's 3.8. Gasoline at the pumps is really high.
▶ 0:39:41People back home are going to ask me, show me the design, show me the product, show me what you're buying with my tax dollars. So any additional information you can give the committee between now and the 11th of june would be very, very helpful. Thank you. >> just a point. What the gentlelady is making.
▶ 0:40:01I think one of the issues that we'd like to understand is why large combatant ships versus more, say, a new destroyer design that they've been talking about for some time because people say around here, you know, quantity is a quality all of its own. So if we're going to be these large combatants, I, you know, I've been these down the line on these new programs, they end up costing a lot more than we expect.
▶ 0:40:28So we need to get a better understanding of this before we dive into this, because we don't want to get into this. And then 2 or 3 years from now, it gets canceled out and we waste a lot of money. So we want to get to the understand this process a little bit better that Mr. womack. Oh, Mr. laurel lee, sorry, do you want to go ahead? >> I'm happy to go after Mr. womack. That's nice. >> he's calling. >> to you. >> he's a gentleman. He's letting. >> you go first. That he is. Thank you. Thank you very much, admiral cordell.
▶ 0:40:56Um, you and I had the opportunity to tour the submarine production facility at groton. Uh, it was a great trip. Enjoy the trip a lot and enjoyed being with you. What was clear for me from the visit is that submarine delivery depends on people as much as funding. We have welders, pipe fitters, electricians, engineers, planners, supervisors.
▶ 0:41:20What is your assessment of whether the submarine industrial base has the workforce it needs to meet columbia and virginia class production requirements? >> well, ranking member delauro, thanks again. It was a great visit. It's good seeing you. Uh, I enjoyed it a lot. Um, and thanks for what you do for this committee and the navy, especially for our submarine program. Um, you've hit on a point that matters. I mean, everything ties to workforce. It is extremely important.
▶ 0:41:47And so there is not an initiative that we're trying to do that going forward, in which the workforce is not a key part of that workforce development, recruiting, retention. We see these briefs that are shipyards. You've attended some where we talk about how are we actually getting after the number of people we need to do this?
▶ 0:42:06What are the new initiatives of how we train them, how we do co-op with local, you know, vocational schools and expanding some of the training pipeline, uh, things like in danville and some of the things in connecticut and expand on those, those ideas to actually develop and create more workforce. So you've hit on it.
▶ 0:42:25Um, I think, you know, electric boat in particular, you know, in our visit, I'm seeing great efforts there where they're going to hit their recruiting mark and with the retention levels improving, because compensation has improved much from the work that this committee has done. And then some of the ways that we're actually able to train using virtual technologies and, and actually matching that with the capabilities of modern times, I think we're going to hit the mark on that much better. >> thank you.
▶ 0:42:52And that gets me into wanting to get, um, in that workforce, what are the gaps that are having the greatest effect on submarine delivery today? How does the navy measure whether it's workforce investments are improving the schedule performance? >> you know, I think it's easy to think it's we're short on vocation and it's easy to think it's short on welding and short on, you know, maybe pipe fitting and that type of work.
▶ 0:43:18But what I found actually, when I talked to the leadership of the yards, it's really the, the first year, second year type engineers that actually oversee work, that do a lot of the planning and design work and actually convert drawings into production drawings, do the technical work documents. And because of that, I don't think we're leveraging artificial intelligence and large language models to compensate for that effectively. And I think that's the workforce I'm most concerned with is retaining that level of talent.
▶ 0:43:46And I actually think the vocational side is actually seeing an upswing. >> I thank you for that. And I think that that leads us to where we need to go with investments is what, what, what we are trying to do to have, um, you know, the workforce that is necessary to look at how we're improving schedule and, you know, performance and getting us to where we need to be. Thank you, secretary cao. Um, the, uh, 2027 request includes major funding for columbia and virginia class submarines.
▶ 0:44:17Congress has already provided significant submarine industrial base funding in prior years. The programs are central to strategic deterrence and attack submarine availability, but funding alone does not deliver submarines.
▶ 0:44:30Um, I, I was disappointed to learn that there is a proposal to include language in the block six contract for virginia columbia class submarines that would enable the government to remove two submarines for under-performance. There are many factors that have increased the delays to the provision of the subs to the fleet.
▶ 0:44:57Uh, most are, are, are really being addressed, which we've heard about by both the navy, uh, and by the industry. But Mr. secretary, how does language like the proposal stimulate the submarine industrial base and not create more delays? >> thank you. Member I, I hear your concerns. We need leverage points.
▶ 0:45:22But again, we have this amazing, uh, admiral, vice admiral, uh, rob goucher, who I've known for 36 years who is laser focused on submarine building, whose whole job is as a direct report program manager for submarines that oversees all of these, uh, the construction all the way. I mean, he's also dual hatted to me as a portfolio acquisitions, uh, executive that will help move forward the submarine building.
▶ 0:45:48He's, he's found a lot of efficiencies that he's able to move the timeline to the left, uh, a lot to. >> well, it's of concern to me that language, um, language that's out there, what kind of a negative effect may it have on moving forward and not create more delays? If we're saying, you know, you've got the, the, the government can remove two submarines for, for underperformance.
▶ 0:46:16That just sounds like a, uh, a threat level. Um, that really, um, creates, um. More of a reticence and, and the, you know, or a, um, an incentive to try to, to, you know, to move forward. I just think we need to take a hard look at this language and see, you know, um, what kind of an effect this will have overall.
▶ 0:46:46And I, and I hope we'll, uh. >> we will. >> look at it that we do that, uh, will you provide the committee with a spend plan for prior year and 2027 submarine industrial base funding, including obligation rates, major project categories, timelines, performance metrics tied to supplier performance, uh, shipyard throughput, and submarine delivery.
▶ 0:47:14Can you provide us with that information? >> we will provide whatever you need. >> okay. That would be very, very helpful, I think, to the committee. Let me just say, um, uh, the 2027 request makes major investments in submarine procurement and the submarine industrial base. Uh, congress, my view, should support the undersea mission, but the department has got to show that this funding is, uh, executable.
▶ 0:47:40The committee needs clear answers on workforce gaps, supplier capacity, obligation rates, schedule, performance, so that the investments result in delivered submarines and not just larger budget lines. >> so we are obligating. Again, I don't know if you're talking about the fy 26. We I know right now we're at 23%, uh, execution. And I just funded two destroyers and one oiler.
▶ 0:48:09So by july, we will be at 64% obligation. And, and with the fax downselect in the end of summer, we will be at 98% by the beginning of september. >> mhm. Well, if if you what we need to do is to, you know, provide us with the, with the spend plan, that's going to be very, very important for us as we move forward. As both the chair and ranking member mentioned on june 11th. Absolutely. Um, I thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:48:40>> I thank the gentlelady and I agree with you. We need to get the virginia class submarine program back up to at least two virginia class submarines per year. Uh, very quickly, I would hope that, Mr. womack. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> and my thanks to the gentleman, uh, appearing before us today in your testimony. Uh, but more importantly, your service to your country. And you, secretary, uh, your family's story is a pretty special story, and, uh, it should inspire all of us, uh, for the work that, uh, that we do.
▶ 0:49:09And I know it's been a quick transition for you, uh, but I admire the work that you're putting in and, um, and the command of the subject that, that we're talking about here today. Admiral, I want to begin my line of questioning regarding our ongoing conversations on priorities, particularly when it comes to shipbuilding. I'm a fiscal conservative firm. Support of our armed forces, trouble sometimes reconciling our shipbuilding issues.
▶ 0:49:37We've seen extensive delays in battle force ships under construction. And, um, our 27 budget request 150 billion in procurement. That's a 42.5% increase from last year, procuring 18 battle force ships this year, 75 over the fight. That's a that's an enormous commitment, uh, for the taxpayers.
▶ 0:49:58There seems to be a significant amount of requirement creep, as I call it, that emerges between the drawing board and delivery. All the good ideas people seem to get in the way. And when that happens, costs escalate. What is your concrete, enforceable plan to ensure that requirements remain stable during this acquisition cycle?
▶ 0:50:28>> congressman, I can think back of that movie, the pentagon wars, where they're building m3, and it just keeps moving and moving. These guys start as oh six, and by the time it's over, you know it's there for stars and the requirements creeps keep coming along. >> and some of us are in nursing homes. Yeah. >> yes, sir. Well we need to stop snap the chalk line and just go with the design the way we did in world war two, where, you know, the, the, the the what the ford industry was doing with being building the b-24. We need to snap the chalk line, build it.
▶ 0:50:56And if we have to do modifications, we'll do it later. And this is these are things we need to lock ourselves into the design plan. >> and. Ricardo. >> yeah, you know, I think it comes down to several items. One, we need to expand our industrial base on this. And so we get more yards in the game. And that's going to come through a a modular approach to shipbuilding that this country, quite frankly, has been way behind in doing.
▶ 0:51:20When I can get more yards in the in the construction than what I turn the primes into is more of an assembly yard. And I can actually, I think, get up on plane if I do that. We've already discussed the workforce development piece. That's got to be essential to this. I think our shipyards have to invest more in robotics. There's too many welds and that type of production still being done manually. We're behind there. We're not leveraging artificial intelligence enough, as I've mentioned. And the modularity piece is is also part of that.
▶ 0:51:49And I would tell you, acquisition reform has to be an essential to this. Our pay structure is part of this up gunning what we do at our supervisor of shipbuilding, giving them more authority and how invasive they can be with the defense industrial base, how we hold accountability. And then, as the secretary mentioned, design maturity, we have for far too long gone into the shipbuilding, with not only creep being part of it, the design not being mature enough at the start. And so that's why that's baked into all of this.
▶ 0:52:21And some of the money even going into the battleship. And of course, the new frigate is to get to the design maturity. Before we start the build. >> I have a question about aircraft carriers, but I know my buddy jake ellzey is going to be asking that question, so I'm going to pass on it, um, and give him the ability to throw a softball at you. Uh, general smith, um, I want to commend you for making the following statement to your recent letter to the house armed services committee.
▶ 0:52:46I believe this budget aligned with the national defense strategy, represents the best balance of resources to support these critical efforts. Therefore, at this time, the marine corps unfunded priority list has no items to report. That is an extraordinary statement, and I want to assure me, make sure that my colleagues on this committee and the american people understand why that's your message.
▶ 0:53:08As I understand it, your belief is if the marine corps receives all the requested discretionary and mandatory funding, and maybe that's still a big if, um, then there are no unfunded priorities. Would that be correct, sir? >> that is correct. If we receive them both. Yes, sir. >> that's fantastic to hear. And I would hope that the other services would listen carefully and and follow suit. And I know I'm about out of time and I'll yield back. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank the gentleman, Mr.
▶ 0:53:40Cuellar. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Ranking member, uh, Mr. secretary and all of y'all, thank you for your service and your men and women that serve our country. As a student of latin america, we've seen the presence of china growing south of, um, uh, south of the border. And it's not only economic, we're also seeing signs of a broader strategic and military posture in that region.
▶ 0:54:07Earlier this year, the chinese, a chinese navy ship docked in rio de janeiro under the banner of a medical mission. Uh, but there were some serious questions that were raised about the scope of that visit and what it signaled. Uh, and in late 2025, china issued its third policy paper on latin america and the caribbean that outlined a deeper engagement across the region, including security related areas.
▶ 0:54:37Uh, this concern is reflected by this committee, and we've taken certain steps, uh, on, on that particular area. Uh, I think just showing up is part of the, of the, uh, you know, the game that we need to do. Uh, so my question is, what is the navy doing to strengthen our position and push back against china's growing military presence and influence in latin america?
▶ 0:55:06And how are we using military education and training programs to bring latin american officers here to build those stronger relationships, uh, and ensure that the next generation of regional leaders see the united states as their partner of choice. And finally, uh, how many latin american officers are we currently are currently participating in the us navy training programs. >> thank you. Congressman.
▶ 0:55:35Uh, that's a wonderful question because right now we have a true warrior in this southcom. I mean, uh, frank, general frank donovan is is a true hero to this country. And he's taken the, the, the argument, uh, down there, the iwo jima amphibious ready group down there, uh, and doing a lot of great things against narco terrorism. Uh, I know I share your concern also, the chinese controlling the panama canal for all these years. A canal that we built with american blood down there.
▶ 0:56:03And, uh, that is quite discerning. We have a lot of exercises, juntas that's going on down there, as well as a lot of exchange programs. And I will defer to the chief of naval operations and the commandant to share with you what they do at the naval war college and the marine corps university as well. >> sir, I can tell you, I just attended the graduation. Uh, my own son graduated barely from the amphibious warfare school. He didn't really graduate, barely. He graduated.
▶ 0:56:30Um, we have multiple south american partners. I'm a latin american fellow. I spent two years living in caracas, venezuela, uh, before, uh, well, during the chavez época epoch and after, um, so we are fully engaged in southcom. We're fully supporting frank donovan in southcom.
▶ 0:56:49Um, the only thing we need is, is, is additional funding to make sure that what we do that we actually can pay for it, that we actually, because we actually have the marines, we have the shipping to get down there to do the exercises. We can fly our v22s down there. Um, we are working very, very hard to do exchanges with the, with our latin american partners through central and south america. And we really start with our schools. When you, when you have an individual who you went to school with, you can pick up the phone and call them.
▶ 0:57:16And these individuals who are coming to us as lieutenant commanders and majors are going to grow up to be four stars in latin america. And that's the real secret sauce to our schools program. >> I graduated from the navy white college last year, and I saw some of the mexican officers and some of the latin america. But if we can do more of that, that would be good. Uh, got about a minute left. Um, um, mexico for the first time.
▶ 0:57:41And we mentioned this to the secretary has a special forces and I believe seals to actually go to mexico, be stationed there, uh, do training, uh, and maybe do some joint operations. Uh, I mean, not joint operations.
▶ 0:57:57I wish they would do joint operations, but, uh, do a little bit more the more you can get our mexican folks to engage, uh, will be very, very important to not only for drugs, but just the fact that china is right across the border, literally right across the border, uh, from, um, you know, from the U.S. so we really appreciate if y'all can push that more and let us know what funding in particular. I have an idea, but it's up to the committee over here to work on that.
▶ 0:58:27But I really appreciate the work that y'all are doing in latin america. And, uh, keep doing more on that. Thank you. I yield back. >> thank you. Uh, speaking of general donovan, I just wanted to make a point that last time you testified to us, he mentioned a number, uh, the revenue from the major cartels, uh, from in that area is over $400 billion a year.
▶ 0:58:53Um, drugs, human trafficking, illegal fishing, a lot of other activities. Uh, so, uh, this, that's, uh, that's a, that's a big chunk of money. So we need to get after it. Uh, Mr. carter. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:59:16Hellion cano, generator technology has progressed from early development into operational navy testing and will be integrated into unmanned vessel program. Given the demonstrated ability of cano to operate on navy standard marine diesel fuel, even under harsh maritime conditions.
▶ 0:59:39Does the department see this type of fuel flexible, low maintenance power generation technology as a potential for enabling capability for the navy's future unmanned fleet? >> you know, um, on that question, I literally slept in a holiday inn express, uh, and learned about this company in preparation for this hearing.
▶ 1:00:06But, uh, you know, when I read about it, it reminded me of bloom technology, which uses, you know, kind of a catalytic approach that can use any type of fuel, diesel fuel, methane, natural gas, and actually generate electrical power from that using that type of technology. So I think it looks promising. And we need things that can sustain our unmanned and uncrewed and robotic fleet for longer term.
▶ 1:00:29I mean, the whole problem with it today in the concept of operation from the navy perspective is how long I can keep it at sea before it itself has to be replenished. So anything that can increase the endurance and the legs on robotic and autonomous systems afloat, I'm game for. So you have my commitment to look into this technology and understand it more and how it could be applied. >> thank you.
▶ 1:00:52Uh, recent attacks in the middle east, uh, highlighted how vulnerable military installations and data centers are to modern warfare. As digital infrastructure becomes a frontline target, what steps is the navy taking in fy 27 to modernize and protect tier one and tier one data centers to ensure mission critical operations and
▶ 1:01:24Readiness remain resilient, uh, in the contested environment. >> yeah. Um, you know, a lot, uh, it's been a vulnerability that we have had for quite a while to get our house in order or counter uas technologies. And so the navy is actively, I'm very much a part of the data for one task force that's been stood up and the work to try to get a joint approach to how we do base protection.
▶ 1:01:50Uh, we have a navy component commander that focuses on this at U.S. fleet forces every single day. Um, I think we have not done a good job historically to find the best of breed and then buy that and scale that across all bases. So if any place we could do something in a joint way, this is certainly a place to do that. So I think there's a lot of work that can go in to actually get these systems in place.
▶ 1:02:15You know, we had some events there at langley and some in new jersey that really exposed how vulnerable we are to critical infrastructure, uh, vulnerabilities from, you know, from uas. And when we did that, we kind of got the ball off top dead center here. And I know northcom is highly focused on this. I know the department is as well, but there's work that still need to be done to fill these, uh, across all of our bases and something that really does work. And so most of this stuff, you know, doesn't work that great. And we actually need to get systems that do.
▶ 1:02:46>> uh, that. Are there multiple people working on this issue? >> yes, there are. >> because I mean, that's going to shut us down if in the future. >> I've got an entire team that do the capabilities assessment of that. And of course, we look for how we do this through the joint processes that are in place to actually fill joint capabilities. And I know that general smith and I are, you know, locked, you know, hand in hand here on making sure that we provide robust force protection for our bases. >> electricity is getting to be more and more important.
▶ 1:03:17>> I mean, it's a challenge. It's a challenge overseas. We saw in this conflict to have the capacity to actually protect against things like one way attack, uavs and that type of thing. But it's a whole different game in colonies because the fcc gets involved, the faa gets involved, different agencies get involved. And so when you fortunately, we've gotten some reprieve from the the. 1301 30 I actual protection of covered assets to basically designate all of our bases covered.
▶ 1:03:45And so I'm not, I'm not restricted really in my application of the, of the technology, but I just I'm restricted in the fielding and proving of the technology. >> well, I'm glad you're on top of it because it's, it's a future problem. The marine corps has significant strides, uh, in employing commercial autonomy software in support of nemesis.
▶ 1:04:10Is the marine corps properly planning and programing and budgeting for the the continued sustainment of the software. >> sir, I believe we are. Our issue really with nemesis is building the missile battery depth. That is what we really need. But the software is is rock solid. The autonomous movement of that vehicle? Uh, it's, it's called a rogue, a remote operational ground unit, expeditionary. It's capable of independent maneuver and operation.
▶ 1:04:39Um, it is, it is rock solid. What we really need is the missile depth. >> okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank you. Gentlemen, Mr. aguilar. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you, ranking member. Um, Mr. secretary, I wanted to talk a little bit about the cost of the war. Earlier today, undersecretary hearst, um, gave us an updated figure of $29 billion.
▶ 1:05:06Um, and that was the number he cited to this committee is the total cost of the operation. Can you describe within your portfolio on the navy and marine corps side, what the funding impacts have been within that 29 billion? >> congressman? Uh, that includes obviously operation maintenance of our ships out there and aircraft, as well as munitions that we've expended during this operation.
▶ 1:05:32But again, these are numbers that osw has been keeping tally on in order to to give this committee a very strong, uh, supplemental request. >> you don't have any more any more detail other than that to share. >> I'll defer to the cno and the commandant if they have any other requests, but I mean, a lot of this is for munitions, sir.
▶ 1:05:59Uh, I mean, we've spent a lot of munitions, but again, it's not all of it. I, I know there's some some things in the news about people testifying and saying things that, that, um, that we've expended. I'm telling you right now, our munitions are looking good and I'll be more than happy to come in, in a closed session in order to tell you exactly what our our munitions are combat usable, um, allowances. >> okay.
▶ 1:06:23Um, I wanted to follow up on ranking member mcclellan's questions on the golden fleet. Uh, the congressional budget office in 2025 reported ddg spent 20 to 100% more time in the yards for maintenance than scheduled, and that ddg will spend nine years, on average, a quarter of its service life in the yard, spending billions of dollars on a new ship without a specified mission.
▶ 1:06:51While you're stretched thin with the current assets, seems like it tests our operability. Uh, how do we justify, uh, millions of dollars? Potentially more than that on a battleship when the current fleet is suffering from maintenance? >> congressman, as we said before, a lot of the maintenance was bow waved during the wars in iraq and afghanistan. And we're just now catching up. A lot of ships should not be in the yards for as long as they have been.
▶ 1:07:21However, without the dry docking, they needed, you know, moving out from six years to ten years had a huge impact on us. But this golden fleet doesn't, you know, this includes smaller ships like the frigates that we need, because right now we have destroyers going out there doing counter-drug ops. That's like having a, a brain surgeon, uh, you know, suturing up your, your wounds or something like that. We don't need that. And this destroyer has a very specific mission. That's why we have a mix between low and high end ships, as well as autonomous vessels for, for these missions as well.
▶ 1:07:54>> if it's, uh, how will, how will the extended deployments that we're seeing affect the future maintenance schedules for these ships. >> for every 30 days that the ship is extended on deployment, it adds 6% of maintenance. So over five, five months extra would add 30% for maintenance. >> what would that mean for something like the ford that given the mission set that you mentioned earlier?
▶ 1:08:22>> again, that would add 30, 30% more for the maintenance. And again, we, we are working to, uh, have a dry dock that would, uh, be able to bring in the ford also. I mean, it's a much larger and heavier ship as well. >> sticking with the, the theme of ships, the navy also has plans to purchase two foreign ships through research, development, test and evaluation. Rdte funding to assess how they would need to be modified and if they fit with our force structure.
▶ 1:08:49Uh, how long do you expect testing to take? And can you explain some of the rationale behind using r, d, and e money to accomplish this? >> congressman, we're not buying foreign ships. We're we're studying the foreign ships so that we can eventually move the whole production line to the united states, the korean shipyards and the japanese shipyards. All these foreign shipyards have been able to develop warships very quickly. And, uh, in about two years, whereas our shipyards are taking 6 to 8 years.
▶ 1:09:18So we're trying to bring american workers over there to learn how their technique, techniques and their procedures and see how they can we can expedite our our building of ships. I mean, right now we have 80 ships on contract, 59 are in production right now. And, you know, we're not moving any faster than we were before. Uh, I mean, the way I see it, it's like going to a, um. Oh, is that, am I blowing up? I'm an eod tech, so I'm, I'm always worried about things buzzing and timer going down, but it's just.
▶ 1:09:49>> just just do what we do and just ignore it. >> no, but again, it's like going to the candy machine, your candy, your snickers bar gets stuck. Put more money in there. It's not going to get more snickers bars out, right? We have to find a way to get around that. And this is what we're doing. We're we're exporting importing, you know, capabilities into the united states in order to, to accelerate and energize the industrial base. Sir. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> uh, thank you. Gentlemen, uh, appoint Mr.
▶ 1:10:15Aguilar brings up and I and I think that that's important is obviously we're burning a lot of cash right now in these operations. And, um, and that's being pulled out of the o and m accounts. Pretty soon you get, you're running out of cash. And that's why we, you know, quite frankly, I, I think we need to supplemental like today because, uh, you know, we're going to have to pay these bills. You, you mentioned sustainment and these, you know, the existing operating costs.
▶ 1:10:41It's, you know, we got to get this supplemental in for we can get to work on it right away. So please make that point. I made the same point, the secretary this morning. So if you could. Yes, chairman. I've seen that message out. That'd be great. Uh, Mr. diaz ballard. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman and secretary, admiral command, uh, coming up, what a privilege to be with you. Uh, my colleagues have heard me say this before. I'm going to do it again. I'm going to focus a little bit on on southcom.
▶ 1:11:10By the way, you all mentioned, um, the outstanding job that general donovan is doing. You know, we've had great commanders at southcom, uh, time and time again, but I'll tell you, he is impressed. John donovan has impressed the heck out of me. And then hearing it from you all, uh, is, is, uh, is frankly, uh, you know, reassuring, even though I'll tell you, he's, he's incredibly impressive, and he's doing an admirable job. Uh, let me, let me talk to you a little bit about operation southern spear.
▶ 1:11:41Chairman calvert has been really good at not having southcom as kind of a stepchild that gets the crumbs, but and actually focusing on it. Um, and we're seeing the results of, of, of focusing on southcom with, with operation southern spiel spear, and you see it by just a decrease in maritime trafficking taking place. You don't have to be a mathematician to understand that it's working, but are we going to be shifting from just a temporary surge to a more permanent posture?
▶ 1:12:08I hope so, uh, because the need is there and because it's actually saving american lives directly. But if so, uh, how do you intend to fully resource that effort? Uh, and not just now, but hopefully for the future? And I don't know, uh, who wants to speak about that? >> yeah, I'll take that because it's, uh, it's tied really to what I was talking about in my opening about the fighting instructions and tailoring force packages.
▶ 1:12:36I'm working with general donovan as we speak on what a persistent force package for his theater would look like to meet his needs. You know, things where we would tie together a an expeditionary staging base, an esb tied with some must be tied to some maritime domain awareness, tied to some littoral combat ships. And so by giving him in conjunction with the coast guard, actually, that's a force package that I can produce reliably.
▶ 1:13:04He can ask for that through the global force management structure, the the esb can be a staging base for not only all types of different manned air, but also unmanned air sof. And so that type of package is what I envision, and he agrees, is what the future of southcom looks like. So I'm pretty optimistic about that. >> and how about isr? It's always a scarce commodity and oil on the planet all over the world.
▶ 1:13:31>> isr, but, but, um, possibility of having an increase in, in capability for southern command. >> well, one of the things the budget does is that it's fundamentally restarts the line and increases ph. So, you know, our maritime patrol aircraft is heavily needed. Triton or mq four is of course needed.
▶ 1:13:47The smaller uas that can be launched from some of the unmanned systems that we're talking about, and manned systems to give temporal, uh, isr for targets of interest in areas of interest has got to be part of that scheme of maneuver as well. >> and again, so, so you're looking at potentially a more permanent structure. >> absolutely. Yeah. I mean, defense of the homeland is the number one priority in the national security strategy and defense strategy.
▶ 1:14:14So countering illicit trafficking and monitoring those waters as the southern flanks of our country is a persistent mission. >> well, one of the things that has frustrated a lot of us is, uh, while the south has been able to see a lot of drugs coming over that we know are directly causing the death of americans, uh, we haven't just because of lack of assets, right. Have not been able to, to, to, to, to target. And so, uh, I just want to tell you how grateful I am for all of you for your focus.
▶ 1:14:43Uh, and, and I would be remiss if I didn't once again, thank you, Mr. chairman, because for many, many years, it was basically just, you know, no matter what I said, didn't get a lot of attention. But you have been great. And, uh, we're seeing the results. Americans are dying less and less numbers because of your efforts, but obviously more importantly, because of the job that you're all doing. And I'm actually going to return 52 seconds, Mr. chairman. >> and I'll use it up. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:11Uh, you you mentioned esbs, admiral, and I'm happy with that, not just because they're built in san diego by nassco a great shipyard. But I understand you have two of them parked right now because, uh, crewing, uh, crew problems, and you can't. We got to get more sailors and, uh, get that out to general donovan as soon as possible. Can you commit to the committee that these esbs that we spent a lot of money on building that you'll get them out. I know that africom would like to have an esp in africa right now. So we built them.
▶ 1:15:43Let's use them. >> yes, chairman. You have my full commitment on that across all msc fleet ships. >> uh, Mr. case. >> thank you, chair, um, for all of you and for your colleagues in the other services and for secretary hegseth, I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out why you allocate between mandatory and discretionary throughout your budget in all of the services. And this is obviously important because there are two separate means of funding.
▶ 1:16:13And you've heard the concerns of congress already about the utilization of mandatory over time. And I can't figure out why you're putting certain things in some buckets and not putting them in other buckets, and why it seems to differ differ between the services. So to give you an example, this morning, secretary hegseth and his team testified, and I'm just going to stick with procurement, uh, because I think we all agree that's really, really a critical part of the budget, both mandatory and discretionary.
▶ 1:16:38So this morning, the testimony was that in procurement, about 36% is my recollection, uh, in the dod writ large was in the mandatory, uh, bucket, uh, for the fy 27 budget. And yet your bucket for navy has that at 16%. So obviously other services are disproportionately in the other side and the mandatory. Then you get down into the details of your budget.
▶ 1:17:04Um, as to what's over on the mandatory side, I'm just looking at navy here. Aircraft 22% in mandatory weapons, 48% in mandatory ammunition, navy and marines, negligible actually at zero. Shipbuilding at 9%. Um, I, I have no idea what that means. Does that mean a prioritization of those areas? Does that mean why? Why are you putting.
▶ 1:17:31And I'll just go to you, admiral, because, um, you know, these are your numbers. Why are you putting stuff, um, in some buckets and putting them in other. I mean, who's making that decision and why are you making that decision? >> well, I mean, as I know, you know, as the service chief, that it's my job to lay out the requirements for the capabilities we need to fill the best navy possible, the design of how that occurs, and the two types of budgets, the discretionary and the mandatory is not really a call that I
▶ 1:18:01Make. Now I am in the. >> decision making it. Who's making it? We're just saying what you need and somebody is deciding, I'm going to put this in mandatory. I'm going to put it in discretionary. But I don't know what their rules of engagement are in terms of what they're doing. Is it a political I mean, secretary hegseth was very, very candid this morning about why, uh, reconciliation was important. And it was all about the politics, not about the substance, not about the policy, the politics of how to pass congress. >> that's not the case for me.
▶ 1:18:30I'm happy to have a $1.5 trillion, uh, just, you know, discretionary bill. So but. >> Mr. calvert is happy to hear you say that, because that's. >> where I mean, that's where he. So as a service chief, I just need the whole bill funded and the scheme and the actual method by which those things is collaborative. But finally, the omb makes the final call on that, not the department of the navy. >> but you don't you don't know what you don't know why omb is putting certain things. >> no, sir, I don't and I've tried to articulate the risk. If one does not.
▶ 1:18:59If it does not get funded, what that risk. >> is, I understand that. It's just that you're asking us to fund things in two different buckets that were uncomfortable doing. So. I'm trying to extract from that what that means. Is it a prioritization? Is it a is it a political approach where you think some things are better funded politically through reconciliation versus discretionary? Anyway, it's a I'm just going to let the question hang and go to go to general smith somewhat, because you have a different approach, if I'm not mistaken.
▶ 1:19:26Um, the marines in your line items virtually have virtually nothing in reconciliation. You haven't gone into the reconciliation bucket very much. I mean, you got some in o and m as I, if I if I have that correct. But to use procurement as an example, I don't see any of your money in in procurement, in reconciliation. Is that right? And why?
▶ 1:19:51>> um, sir, what I would say on, on discretionary, you know, the annual approach bill and mandatory, uh, reconciliation, we are trying to put things in the best bin that we think we can get. Uh, we're trying to put them in the best bin that we think will be passed by this body. We're trying to maximize every tax dollar that's used. So I'm agnostic as to whether it's reconciliation or whether it's mandatory.
▶ 1:20:16>> but do you know why none of your procurement is in reconciliation at all, where whereas the overall department department budget has 36% of their procurement and reconciliation, but not the marines? Do you know why that is? >> yeah, I'll have to take that for the record and come back to. >> you, sir. And then this somewhat goes to Mr. womack's comment because it is related. Uh, your you poll, you come in with no you poll, which actually is the same thing we've gotten, as I recall, from army air force and space force.
▶ 1:20:44Navy is the only one that has a you poll, but all of yours is milcon. So what in my view, what you're doing is you have a purely discretionary budget. You're coming in with. No, you poll not too much in reconciliation. You're saying you're going to live or die by by by your discretionary budget. It's does that that's what my conclusion is. Does that resonate? >> well, sir, I wouldn't say we're going to live or die by it. I mean we're dependent upon it, that is for sure.
▶ 1:21:11But again, I, I have requirements, I'm agnostic as to the methodology by which they're fulfilled. >> okay. And you didn't you didn't make that decision as to what goes in what bucket. >> no, sir. >> okay. Thank you. >> Mr. ellzey. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. secretary, admiral cordell, general smith, thank you all for being here. Hung man, you've been drinking from the fire hose for the last three weeks. And and you've done an outstanding job taking this up and and rolling with it.
▶ 1:21:42And, um, you know, I think it's fantastic that we've got three members here who are all combat veterans. Most of what admiral cogdill did, nobody will ever know about. And some of the you were in you were in command of the topeka, I think, when it did some things that we'll never know about. And so you all have members of your family who are active duty right now. Uh, your son is about to go into the marine corps. There's a tie here between all three of you. They're they're all going to be marines.
▶ 1:22:10You have a son in law who's a marine, you have a son who's going to be a marine. And and so do you. So you have stake in the game. And so I just want for anybody listening, everybody on this committee knows that. But for anybody who might be watching this, wondering what the four stars care about, you have a personal vested interest in the success of what we're doing with this $1.5 trillion, because it depends on you. That is not without precedent.
▶ 1:22:33In history of four stars, three stars and the like who have young family members in the military. So I know you've put a lot of thought to this. Uh, I'd also like to point out that general smith is an aggie. So for my friends back in texas, uh, and the, the marine corps has passed two audits. That's is that right? Two audits. >> three, three, three. >> I'm so sorry I shorted you. So anyway, you guys are a phenomenal team and it's and it's fun to watch you.
▶ 1:23:02Um, today with strait of hormuz close, many of my fellow americans are learning the importance of of the navy again and its fleet of aircraft carriers. Um, you, you really couldn't enforce a blockade with, uh, with autonomous platforms, you're going to need 860. All rose is gone. You're going to need 860, you're going to need f-18's. I, I wish I could have been in the debrief on the carrier when that f-18 pilot came in and showed the tape of him strafing a rudder.
▶ 1:23:33That, my friends, is real professionalism. Whoever got to do that. Awesome. And that the fact that he pulled it off without loss of life on that ship, almost incredible with an unguided munition like a 20 mick mick bullet. So our, our team, our military is performing in an in an incredible way. Um, the aircraft carriers, we have four that are ready.
▶ 1:23:57So I'd also like to point out for those listening, we have 11 aircraft carriers were funded for 11 aircraft carriers. Four of them are up and running. And one of them we just doubled his. It's, uh, it's deployment. That's going to be a real cost. And, and, uh, pete, I'm really glad you asked that question about what it does to a carrier when it extends six months because it's, it's, it's a real cost. Um, this morning I spoke about the lsm and the kc 130 j as important enablers. We split that up.
▶ 1:24:27I don't know why, but it's kind of a shame. Um, but also the chairman of the joint chiefs shared with his subcommittee about the importance of the air force and navy sixth generation fighters, which I appreciate you guys being in favor of. Um, my question is this, as my son jack here is he says he's going to be a pilot, but I think he's going to be a marine like everybody else seems to be going right now. Can you tell me how you're changing the way the navy and marine corps does business to produce capability faster and with less friction?
▶ 1:24:57And specifically, can we make the naval air systems command, navy, sea systems command better? And potentially and hopefully eliminate the naval facilities engineering command. We'll start with you, young. I'm sorry, Mr. secretary. >> that's quite fine. Congressman. First of all, let me go back to the aircraft carrier. How amazing it is. I was on the ford. I mean, those young men and women fought a fire and got that ship back in action, launching aircrafts within three days.
▶ 1:25:26And when I came aboard, they were all happy. They were. They worked as a team. And it was amazing. I mean, this is 110, uh, 1000 0 pound tons of pure american diplomacy with the seventh largest air force in the world being able to go anywhere in the world. And that's the american might. And but you're right, sir. The we when I invaded iraq, we had five carrier strike groups out there. And right now we barely have four. And that's that's a detriment to what what we're bringing to our country.
▶ 1:25:55That's why we need to make sure that we pass this bill to, to inject energy into these shipyards so that we can get these ships out of dry docks and out of maintenance faster, uh, in terms of how we build better marine marines and sailors this year, we brought in 8600 more sailors than we did in previous years in recruiting. And this and I'm sorry, that was last year. This year, we're bringing in more than 11,000 more.
▶ 1:26:20And so with this, we're able to ramp up training and make it harder and tougher because we want tough sailors and marines because, look, ships and aircraft are going to rust and they're going to go down at some point in terms of maintenance. But it's our sailors and marines that make it happen. That's the american spirit within each one. Every single one of these young men and women, they're going to make do with what we have.
▶ 1:26:44So we owe it to them to give them the best equipment, but they're going to, no matter what you give them, they're going to make it work, sir. And that's why I'm so proud of our navy and marine corps. >> thank you. My time has expired. Sorry, Mr. chairman, I, I pulled a mike garcia and just kept on going, so I apologize. Yeah, we still remember. That's all right, miss lee. >> uh, thank you, Mr. chairman. Great to see all of you. Thank you for your service.
▶ 1:27:07Uh, admiral, I, you know, we've all been aware of the freedom of navigation that has been significantly hindered in recent months in the strait of hormuz, uh, including from the laying of mines in the strait. Uh, congress and the american people have not been given a clear, uh, indication of the extent of iran's mining activities and the ability of the united states to deal with this.
▶ 1:27:33And recent reporting by by the wall street journal indicated that it would take six months to clear the strait. Uh, but the department of defense publicly disagreed with that reporting. Can you provide us with an assessment of how long after the conclusion of operation epic fury? Uh, it will take for these mines to be removed? And why the discrepancy? >> it is hard to give you an exact answer on that.
▶ 1:27:59Mine countermeasure operations are tedious. They're slow. There's a lot of of area to cover. Uh, it is based a lot on our intelligence of what we monitor, so it's hard to talk about that in an unclassified setting. Um, and so that helps us like narrow down the areas we need to search by using our, our intelligence apparatus. We do have quite a lot of mine countermeasure capability at the ready, uh, that we have brought into the theater.
▶ 1:28:28So, uh, when it's time and it has to be done in an uncontested environment, it's a very, it's something that just can't be done when you're under fire. I mean, we watch the, the transit of our three destroyers go over to the persian gulf and back to the gulf of oman, and you see the type of environment that still exists there. So that's not an environment where you can do countermeasure mine countermeasure operations. Uh, we do have an exquisite set of capabilities to go do it though.
▶ 1:28:56Uh, and so once everything gets in a condition in which we can do that, we'd have a much better way to give you an estimate on that. >> okay. >> thank you. I'm not trying to skirt it. It's just a very complex question. >> that's understandable. >> and it's and it's an important question. >> I want to talk about lithium battery research. Um, as you know, has the potential for great benefits to the navy, um, including supporting high energy applications, uh, directed energy weapons, long duration, etc.
▶ 1:29:25Um, but there's obviously concerns about potential fire, uh, fires on board ships and submarines caused by, um, thermal runaway poor performance, low temperature, and, um, apparently have slowed the adoption of these batteries. The, the budget request does not include a request for funding for continued research into the development of high performance, uh, safe lithium batteries.
▶ 1:29:52And I just was curious why, uh, is there a shift away or change of priorities and, and what's the plan with respect to that? >> you know, that that omission is not something that, you know, I could speak to because of the, the level of detail that's at, uh, I do value research and development materials science, uh, of course, on battery technology and endurance of batteries.
▶ 1:30:18You know, we've come a long way on some of our initial learning of why these fires occurred and some of our instantiations from unmanned vessels and manned vessels on using lithium technologies, how you decouple those cells and shunt some of those grounds to different paths to keep it from going high order and getting very hot. I mean, we've made great strides in that, a lot of that due, quite frankly, to tesla and other companies like that that have figured this out, uh, from the commercial sector.
▶ 1:30:46So I do need to look into what we are doing to ensure that we're promoting the longevity of lithium batteries, since that's at the heart of almost everything I do in unmanned space. >> absolutely. Thank you. Uh, secretary cao and general smith. Um, I want to make sure I have some time. We, uh, have made great strides in trying to understand the physical and cognitive cognitive effects of blast overpressure exposure.
▶ 1:31:11Uh, I'm worried that much of the attention has been on measuring impacts on land or in the air, with less attention placed underwater. And I know, secretary, you can speak personally to this as you've had careers worthy of that experience.
▶ 1:31:29Um, for our navy technicians who are, uh, operating underwater, what are we doing to ensure that we're protecting our service members from overpressure blast overpressure? >> congresswoman, again, we usually don't have the divers in the water when we're we're blowing things up. They're out of the water. But again, we are we are measuring their cognitive skills before they go into training so that we have a baseline.
▶ 1:31:57And so we can monitor them over the, the, their entire careers. Now, I'd love to come discuss with you also mine countermeasures. This is what I used to do for a living. Uh, when you have an opportunity, ma'am. >> great. Thank you. With that, I, I. >> thank the gentlelady, Mr. fleishman. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. secretary general. Admiral, uh, just I'm awestruck by the way that you've conducted yourself today. Um. Thank you.
▶ 1:32:22Uh, this committee, uh, this republicans and democrats were all americans, and you all make us proud every day. Thank you. Um, as most of you all may know, um, I chair the energy and water subcommittee of this full committee, and that is responsible for our great nuclear navy and all that it does.
▶ 1:32:45And it just harkens me to see that we're actually going to be having, I guess, battleships that are going to be have nuclear propulsion. Our carriers and our submarines have done that for years. It's just been truly incredible. So I'm going to talk a little bit about that and ask a question. Fuel logistics is a growing vulnerability, particularly for conventionally powered surface combatants operating far from established shore infrastructure.
▶ 1:33:12And this is magnified by an increasingly strained and vulnerable support fleet. I'm thrilled, again, that the navy's returning to nuclear propulsion for large surface combatants. Nuclear propulsion has long provided the navy with significant operational advantages, including endurance, speed and sustained presence in contested environments.
▶ 1:33:31My question is, given our nuclear shipyard constraints, how is the navy planning to quickly and efficiently incorporate nuclear propulsion into large surface combatant shipbuilding? From an operational and sustainment perspective, what benefits would nuclear powered surface ships provide that fleet, particularly in the context an indo-pacific? And it would also say it's been a privilege to work with admiral houston. I want to make sure I get that in.
▶ 1:34:03>> well, first of all, we're going to use an existing design. We're going to use the forged reactor, the a one b reactor, and the components to support that from the vessel, the steam generator, pressurizer loop components, reactor coolant pump components. So all of that technology that's going into the design of the battleship, the nuclear battleship from the reactor plant perspective is all pull through technology from from the forward class, as are most of the combat system. This radar system, missile system.
▶ 1:34:31So in the earlier question on what can you early procure and design all that's pulled through. So what's new is the hull form. And so and how that's going to be tied to the propulsion system. And, you know, in the electrical system and distribution system. So there is some research that needs to be done on that. But the fact it's nuclear is going to give it the sustainment it needs, in particular in the pacific, you know, a notion it's three times the size of the atlantic.
▶ 1:34:54I need those types of legs and endurance to serve as a capital ship that comes with that firepower, to be able to deliver that combat payload. You can see just trying to do the the rearming in us central command today is the lymph act of, of the of the navy. Getting to a place where I can actually rearm is a challenge. So the more payload capacity ship has, the less times I have to do that. >> thank you. Anyone else like to. >> well, sorry, I don't want to take away from the admiral. He knows more about nuclear power than I do.
▶ 1:35:24But I'm telling you right now, if we can even just look at powering our shore infrastructure with nuclear power, imagine what that can do. Also, I mean, you guys are appropriators and it's about energy. If we can export energy to the surrounding area, that could be eventually become a working capital fund to, to fix the infrastructure on the basis. And if you put an evaporator system, a four stage distiller, we can actually export water also to places like california. So they don't have a drought. I mean, there's so many things with nuclear power that, uh, that would would help our country. It's clean.
▶ 1:35:54And again, we've been proving it in the united states navy for 75 years. >> thank you. Um, quick question on tactical nuclear weapons and deterrence in the indo-pacific. Um, can you help us understand how the navy assesses the current outlook and its need for non-strategic nuclear capabilities in the indo-pacific and elsewhere?
▶ 1:36:14And what additional options can the navy provide, such as tactical weapons on carriers that would be most useful for reassuring allies during our adversaries and providing combatant commands useful options in the worst case scenario? >> well, congressman, the one thing we have is this command. Right now we have 14 ssbns, uh, the ballistic missile submarines. But imagine if these slick men can go on a fast attack.
▶ 1:36:40So that's 48 more submarines out there that are carrying tactical nuclear weapons. That would be a game changer. I mean, even if we let's just say we don't load all of the tubes with, uh, slick men. Let them guess which one of our submarines have tackled nukes. But let me turn over to cno to, uh. >> secretary's got it exactly right. This is another measure in our escalation management. Okay. This is something that we see our peer adversaries doing. It's adds complexity to the calculus.
▶ 1:37:10It gives us a non-strategic level nuclear weapon, uh, that, that I can filled with uncertainty to actually be a strong deterrent, especially in the indo-pacific. >> thank you. Excellent answers. I yield back. >> thank the gentleman, Mr. morelli. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And thank you, Mr. secretary. Admiral, uh, commandant, for being here. And thanks for your service.
▶ 1:37:35Um, I want to I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm going a little bit, um, and, uh, follow up to Mr. casey's question relative to mandatory versus discretionary spending. And of course, the challenge is, and I don't want to repeat what I said earlier this morning, but when it comes to transparency and oversight of this committee, since we have responsibility for discretionary but not mandatory spending, it's a little hard to make a determination on what ought to go in to the discretionary part versus
▶ 1:38:05Mandatory. I just want to, just for clarity's sake, um, neither you, admiral nor you, general, um, were consulted about which part of your spending request was discretionary versus mandatory. Did I understand that correctly? >> well, I wouldn't say it wasn't consulted. I mean, we gave our numbers and our requirements. And then, you know, there is some back and forth and deliberation and on how you do those types of divides.
▶ 1:38:35But at the end, I was not part of the decision making process. >> is that and you have largely discretionary. Is that correct? Uh, commandant. >> that is correct, sir. >> so so you're involved in the I'm sorry, secretary, did you want to add something to that, sir? >> no, no, congressman. >> please go ahead. >> um, so I'm trying to understand. So, uh, omb does the makes the decision in consultation with you, but then you're appearing in front of the appropriations committee. I assume you knew these questions would be asked.
▶ 1:39:03Did they then say, well, look, when it comes to answering this question, here's the rationale we omb made so that it falls in this bucket versus that. And that's what you can tell appropriators did they is there a conversation like that? >> um, no, not with me. No, there's no conversation like that. Uh, you know, as a service chief, I look at the totality of the, of the total budget and that's the only way I can look at it.
▶ 1:39:29I'm not I'm not trying to have some scheme that, from my perspective, that makes something in one bucket or the other more appealing. Yeah. And I do it as in the totality, sir. >> yes, sir. And I understand that. Um thank you. I, I do think we're trying to understand it. At least I'm trying to understand it. I don't know about other folks why it's in one bucket versus another.
▶ 1:39:50And I respectfully, I'd love to have the director of omb then here to explain to us what is and what isn't in it, because you can understand if something doesn't get funded on the mandatory side. And we left it out of the discretionary side, and I'm not sure which order this is going in. It's just it's really difficult to do this and to do our job as a congressional oversight and appropriators into what you're asking for. So I would just ask you to I don't know who to. I don't know who I'm asking it to. Mr.
▶ 1:40:19Chairman, perhaps you could ask it. Maybe omb would be more receptive to your question about this, but it is frustrating to say the least. In any case, um, I wanted to just ask also, this is perhaps a little bit follow up about the, um, the golden fleet. And, uh, do you have a sense of how many now be in that program, how many ships you intend to build? I've heard different ranges. Can can you, admiral, tell me what you think on the drawing board or what the expectation or. Secretary.
▶ 1:40:49>> well, you know, the initial um thought was at a minimum ten and, you know, and I think there can be a number that would grow in, you know, probably twice that is it would be a goal. >> so does is ten necessary as a minimum to be able to carry out the responsibilities or the strategic mission of that ship? >> well, I think it's, you know, when you when you start constructing and starting a new ship class, you definitely want to understand the, you know, the pace in which they can build.
▶ 1:41:16Make sure you validate the assumption the centers in which it's done have enough that you can get an economic order of quality savings as you try to deliver more. And then, you know, there's a ratio for me to figure out what is the final presence numbers that I want worldwide. And then, you know, if I, if it takes four to make one hole, then, you know, if I got 20 of those, then I can deliver five of those worldwide at any given time. And so those ratios have to be built.
▶ 1:41:43And so I wouldn't want to give you a final number on it, but you can, you know, I'm trying to give you the way the thinking process goes on, how to build out the class. >> okay, so your expectation today, and I recognize this is a longer term conversation, but somewhere between 10 and 20 of the. >> that would be a that would be a guess. >> and can you describe to me how they fit into the future fleet alongside destroyers, carriers, submarines and unmanned systems? >> absolutely. They would serve as a new command ship of of our navy.
▶ 1:42:12And you would tie them together with surface action groups. They could actually also be integrated air missile defense ships. They can do every mission that a ddg can do just with more capacity. You're talking a very high, you know, endurance ship. And then from long range fires, you know, we don't have, you know, enough capacity in particular in the indo-pacific to force flow that entire fleet of those, if I had to, into that theater where I could actually have enough capacity to support admiral paparo in his fight.
▶ 1:42:42So the mobility of the navy could be used with that fleet as well to concentrate that force. >> and is this largely in your mind, more appropriate for the indo-pacific, just given the size? Yes. So would these be largely deployed in that in the indo-pacific? >> well, all of our high end capability is what we're doing in the navy is trying to be able to give the option to build a flow of highest end capability into the indo-pacific.
▶ 1:43:12And so the more I can lay down in the indo-pacific, the better. And we've always had a navy that's been a 6040 split for a long time. And and so, yes, the goal here is in the pressing threat of china that I would be able to actually put the most capability in that theater and then take risk in other theaters. And that's what the hedge strategy is all about. >> um, thanks. >> thank you. Gentlemen, I think. >> I'm sorry if I exceeded my time. Oh, I apologize, I yield back. >> Mr. aderholt, oh, yeah. Yeah.
▶ 1:43:44Good try. >> thank you. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, thanks, everybody, for being here today. Uh, miss. Mr. secretary, thank, uh, congratulations on your new job, uh, as acting secretary. Uh, look forward to working with you. Um, hadrian advanced manufacturing facility and the muscle shoals, alabama, that as you as you probably well know, uh, two point 2,000,000 square foot ai enabled manufacturing facility, uh, opened in march of this year.
▶ 1:44:11Uh, thanks to the navy working with hadrian and with ai partners. Uh, after six years, the one big, beautiful bill finally paved way for the reindustrialization of that plant. And, uh, that is what, uh, reconciliation is doing for the navy's supply chain in the district I represent. And, uh, we're very excited about that.
▶ 1:44:34Can you speak to how the navy is partnering with both the traditional and those that are just entering to the shipbuilding industrial base to increase our output? >> yes, congressman. Again, adrian, with this submarine modules, it's fantastic what they're building. And this is why we're looking for all new entrants. We need to find a way to energize the industrial base. There's I think some of the the traditional primes have gotten very comfortable.
▶ 1:45:02And like I said earlier, it's like going to the candy machine. The snickers bar gets stuck. You can you can only shake it so much. And so that's why we need new entrants in order to energize the industrial base and get things going and looking at other methods to if ai, like the cno has said earlier, if we're able to, to use artificial intelligence to kind of streamline our processes and make it faster and better, and we get more than 2 or 3 hours of work out of a shipyard worker a day, then that would actually, uh,
▶ 1:45:34Really improve our, our production and get ships out there now, now, now. I mean, it's not just about warships too. We're talking about merchant ships as well right now in the military. And we have 188 flagged commercial ships and 105 military sealift command ships. The chinese have 11,000 ships out there. We need more capacity in this country, not just warships, but also commercial ships. And this is why these new entrants are so important. Sir.
▶ 1:46:03>> can can you speak to how the navy is doing things differently now that from past administrations to encourage private companies to invest, uh, their in their own capital. >> again, sir, with the, with the entrance of new companies that that are more private venture, uh, it's, it allows them to put some skin in the game.
▶ 1:46:27And then with, again, I want to thank this committee and also the congress for allowing us to have multiyear procurement, because then it gives the companies a stable and rock solid foundation saying, hey, this is what we're going to need for the seven years. We wouldn't have been able to do that in past years without what this committee and what the congress has done. And again, that's that's what we're giving. We're signaling to industry. This is what we need. And they're they're putting forth their money. They're putting some skin in the game in order to get us there.
▶ 1:46:56>> of course, as you well know, we're entering our fifth year between the aukus partnership between the us and the uk and australia. Uh, last year, the department undertook a review of the partnership and concluded it favorably. Um, can you give us a status update on the partnership, especially the progress and the outlook of getting australia's own virginia class submarines? >> yes, sir. They still have a few, uh, milestones to meet before we get there, but they're moving along very quickly.
▶ 1:47:25And the beautiful part about aukus is the enemy will not know if it's american submarine out there. Australian submarine, because it's going to all be the same. You can't see it. You can't. And it's almost like slick, man, where, you know, let them guess what's out there. But I will turn to admiral cordell, who's very tied in with aukus, as well as vice admiral gallagher, who's moving forward the submarine.
▶ 1:47:48>> let me also just mentioned, sir, that I understand the the under your new shipbuilding plan that, uh, that was released yesterday, uh, it projects procurement of two virginia class submarines every year for the next ten years, I believe. That's correct. Uh, but when do you expect the actual, the actual production rate? >> let me, uh, I'll get back to you on that, sir. But again, it's taking a long time for us to build these submarines. And again, that's why we need to push industry.
▶ 1:48:16And this is why, like I said, we're we're signaling to, to industry what we need out there. Uh, thanks to the congress, uh, allowing us to do multi-year procurement and as well as being able to, to say, hey, you know, we're not going to take no for an answer anymore. Let's, let's move forward. But, uh. >> I would say, uh, we're going to be up on step with that around 2032. And based on the things we've done in place and the things we have now, we should be at the two per year in the early 2030, real early 2030s.
▶ 1:48:45The next big milestone for aukus is the establishment of the submarine squadron there, as part of the submarine rotational force west initiative. They've committed. They've completed two availabilities of our virginia class successfully. Uh, mark hammond, I will first, he just got selected to be the chief of defense force there, their chief of navy, which is great news for aukus. So he's going to carry that forward. And we're all ahead flank on this. So just got back from perth. Uh, they're making their milestones. There's a couple of things they're behind on.
▶ 1:49:13I'm frustrated with that are part of the support system there, like some of the skiff work in that kind of thing. But all the production work, they're on the pier and all that. They're making their mark and the integration of their sailors and officers and maintenance personnel at pearl harbor naval shipyard is fantastic. So this is working, and we want to support them, and it is going to turn out really great when we get it delivered. Thank you sir. >> thank you. Mr. arnold brought up something. I just jogged my memory on.
▶ 1:49:40Uh, had a so-called expert in to see me the other day. Told me that the operable ships in the british navy right now is at 15. Does that sound correct to you, general? I'm admiral. >> I know they're having some challenges, sir. >> 15. >> yes. I won't speak to the number because I don't know it. But, you know, uh, the first sea lord. I have conversations on it and I know he's having some challenges in particular with maintenance and new construction.
▶ 1:50:07>> is that relative to I mean, does that risk relative to all of nato, uh, as far as their capability that they have? >> no, I wouldn't extend that problem set across all nato countries. >> thank god. Uh, miss kaptur. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Assistant secretary cao, admiral cordell, and commandant smith, thank you for your service to our country. Do not misinterpret any question I'm going to ask you now.
▶ 1:50:36First of all, I know you have to follow orders. Um, this is the order I follow. And this order says to me, no money shall be drawn from the treasury. But in consequence of appropriations made by law and a regular statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all public money, shall be published from time to time. I find your department completely negligent in terms of what is going on right now.
▶ 1:51:05Um, I'm very interested in how we are going to pay the bills, not just to, uh, acquire the ships you need, but to pay for them. And the people that I represent can't afford to pay more. And so I'm asking myself the question, who will benefit from the current engagements?
▶ 1:51:30And I don't know whether you can provide me with this information, but I'm interested in the amount of money that the nations who have not committed troops in the middle east, how much can they contribute? How about saudi arabia? Let's start there. Trillions of dollars in sovereign wealth funds. We don't know where those dollars are invested. What about kuwait? Have they got naval carriers or naval personnel?
▶ 1:51:57On the strait of hormuz? No. Um, what about qatar? What about the uae? Uh, what about oman? I'm looking around the world and saying to myself, you're saying you want 1 trillion, 500 billion more dollars? And what's sad is it's retroactive. You've already spent it. We don't know how much you've spent.
▶ 1:52:25We can't get a report from the administration. So I don't want to tax my citizens. So I'm asking >> you. You don't have to answer me today. Go back to the secretary. You ask him who he wants to tax over in the middle east. Or what industries will benefit from this historic engagement for which the congress of the united states did not vote. And three of the first individuals killed were from the state of ohio. I always say to myself, why is it ohio? And it was our reservists. Okay. And an air refueling mission.
▶ 1:52:54But you have to follow orders, I understand that. But I have to follow orders also. And this particular request I find objectionable. And I think there are many others around the world that can help pay for this. So that's my lecture. My question has to do with shipbuilding. I care very much about that. I'm from the great lakes region. I care about restoration of the defense industrial base. We have something called the great lakes saint lawrence seaway.
▶ 1:53:23It's been neglected for about 50 years. And I'm interested what we can do to modernize the welland canal. And I'll help you, because that only has a 26.5ft draft. And that's why. But with modular construction, we can do a whole lot in the great lakes region. And guess what else we do there? We make steel, we make composites. The machine tool industry was taken away from us by all these damn trade deals that different administrations got us involved in, and our people lost jobs.
▶ 1:53:54We want to help the navy. We love the marine corps. We love the army, we love the navy. Our people enlist. And so I'm just saying to you, help us. Give us a I invite you out to our our area. How does the navy assess the utility of modular construction? Do you think that's possible across the great lakes region? Can we help somehow? >> first of all, thank you for your passion on that question.
▶ 1:54:23And thank you for your passion on, on, uh, allies and partners helping us with epic fury. I share that. Um, yes, this is an all hands on deck approach. There is no reason I cannot do modular construction in ohio. There is no reason we can't if we so desire, uh, improve the depth of water to actually transport barges or ships from that area. Not all that's engineering possible.
▶ 1:54:46And so as we widen the defense industrial base and certainly the maritime industrial base and actually get into additive manufacturing, get into things like modular construction, all of that can be done. And we need the help from all states to do that. >> thank you so very much. Admiral, thank you for your service to our country. >> and, congresswoman, I hope you'll be here this weekend when we, uh, commission the uss cleveland. And, uh, it'll be amazing. It's it's.
▶ 1:55:15>> gosh, I didn't know it was happening. Uh, but we do have other commitments in ohio. Maybe congressman joyce will represent ohio. He's unable. >> he will. >> co-chair the great lakes task force. >> and again, like like the admiral said, I share your passion about our. The last person that wants to go to war. Our warriors like us who've who've seen death and destruction in this country. Uh, you you know, this is the also the unseen wounds of war afterwards. Uh, again, I've had a lot of traumatic brain injury and as well as ptsd. And I don't want that for, for our children.
▶ 1:55:45Uh, but sometimes there's a necessity out there. Uh, these, the iranians have been at war with us for 47 years. We just didn't know it. They they killed our marines in 1983, in beirut in 1979, when the shah of iran was overthrown, the marines took us into their, uh, to the embassy. I was living overseas in africa. And they, they stood watch over me, saying, nothing's going to hurt you, not tonight. And I want to be like them when I grew up.
▶ 1:56:09And that's why I joined the military, uh, and all the f and all the ideas that were that killed and maimed our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines in iraq, afghanistan were built in, in iran, ma'am. And that's why we had to put a stop to it now, because history is going to judge us for what we do at this moment, because they were building up such a huge wall of drones and cruise missiles, we would never be able to penetrate that in a year. >> well, I think you're defending your position very well. But this is an undeclared war and it's un-american.
▶ 1:56:37And that doesn't say I don't want to defeat the nuclear capabilities of iran or figure a workout. But this wasn't done. And it's an american war. I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. joyce. You can talk about the uss cleveland. >> thank you very much. Uh, chairman ken calvert, uh, you know, we can't talk about the cleveland browns. So let's talk about the uss cleveland coming to town. No, but I know I'm watching the local papers. It's been people have been watching.
▶ 1:57:06I thought it was all coming in like next friday and saturday. But it seems like you're already in route and it's got a lot of excitement. I look forward to it. And, and building off what a little bit off of what my fellow buckeye had brought up, uh, you know, uh, you seem to be a little more in tune with, you know, trying to modernize the way we go about shipbuilding and, and getting those things happening. And, you know, shipbuilding delays are significant challenges to your readiness.
▶ 1:57:35Uh, for example, press connect fittings and other advancements in production technologies already being utilized by industry have the potential to improve our construction and maintenance capabilities. Does the navy have a plan to accelerate the use of new technologies as part of this comprehensive strategy to build ships faster? >> yes, that's a key element. I mean it it's riddled through all the investments in the submarine industrial base investments. It's it's in the defense industrial base investments.
▶ 1:58:04It's in the work being done by the deputy secretary of war to incentivize as as the acting secretary said, to facilitate and recapitalize. Have skin in the game, if you will, from the actual manufacturers themselves. Uh, it's, you know, I'm frustrated a bit on the pace in which people are bringing new technologies in. As I stated earlier, in particular robotics and ai into ways that I think we can do things a lot quicker. And so there needs to be a way to get after that. You'll see it in psyop.
▶ 1:58:33It's actually the oh, and the psyop is how we're actually bringing in new equipment and in our own facilities of our own public yards, bringing in state of the art equipment and doing it the same at every four yard. So when we train a shipyard worker, they can go do that type of milling operation or additive manufacturing operation, the same in each one of those. So it's a lot of that going on. Uh, the pace is, I think a bit concerning that we're not moving faster on that, but it will take some time to see the results of that.
▶ 1:59:02And so I do, you know, I just want to be, you know, very set expectation here. There is investment going on on that, but it is a new way of doing business and we need it to take traction. >> and I'm with you on that, sir. But I've I've heard, you know, from people who manufacture these systems, lighting systems, other things that we can't get anybody at the navy or any the people who are doing this to talk to us or even look at these things. And you bring up a good point.
▶ 1:59:25I tell high school kids and you go, you know, ai is not coming to fix your a c on a hot sunday or the pipe that's broke in your house, it's going to take humans to do those things. And we need to make sure that we have the workforce, along with the ai technology and the ability for plug and play type of equipment.
▶ 1:59:44>> well, one of the things I consider is like, one of the things that's very manually intensive is taking an actual design, drawing and turning it into a production drawing that's done manually today through like cad and cam software, but that's still a human being. And all of that can be done with artificial intelligence. And we're not. That's the type of thing I'm talking about leveraging when it comes to production work and, and talking a nut on a, on a, on the end of a pipe. Yes. That's that's still going to be a human, sir. No question.
▶ 2:00:11>> as long as humans are in control of the actual firing of weapons, and we don't let ai have the ability to do that. I'm with you guys all the way, and I don't want you to feel out the commandant. So I have one for you, too. Um, can you discuss how the marine corps is approaching the threat that we found in ukraine now? And since it's changed, basically the way we do war, the forces have relied on everything from sophisticated electronic warfare systems to shotguns as a last line of defense.
▶ 2:00:38What are we doing underway to, like, push, uh, our push to counter drone capabilities down to the lowest echelon. So every unit has organic means to defend itself. And we're accelerating this integration, require any additional resources or funding? >> well, sir, thanks for that question. We are doing quite a bit.
▶ 2:00:58We have a drone dominance task force led by colonel scotty cuomo down at quantico, who is driven to get a drone and a counter drone technology in our hands, primarily the best defense is a good offense. So what we're doing is we're proliferating small manufacturable 3d printable drones, which is mimicking what the ukrainians are doing. Uh, our real issue is going to be employment of those drones.
▶ 2:01:20Uh, what we want to make sure we can do is we can train with them on our installations that I don't have to go to the faa for permission to fly at 500ft or 400ft. But we're doing a pretty good job of additive manufacturing and 3d printing our own drones that are delivering small bombs, which is really what's doing most of the killing on the battlefield in ukraine. >> well, um, the technology that's necessary for that, we are just developing now. >> well, what I would say, sir, is we have that technology, we have the technology.
▶ 2:01:49We just don't have the production rates. I see. >> so we're building up the volume as you speak. >> building up the volume as we speak. Yes, sir. Okay. >> um, lastly, uh, admiral carl, operations in the middle east have, uh, reinforced the persistent importance of critical choke points to maritime security, looking towards the indo-pacific, what capabilities should congress invest to ensure the navy can break the maritime blockade and deter other gray zone operations by our adversaries in that region.
▶ 2:02:19>> funding the ability us to close our kill webs counter targeting our ability to hold high quality track precision, long range fires, and our ability to command and control that and contested logistics. >> great. >> thank you all for your service. >> thank you. Gentlemen. >> yield back, Mr. chairman. >> thank you, miss mccollum. >> well, thank you, Mr. chair. This has been an interesting meeting.
▶ 2:02:43As you see, we talked a lot about mandatory versus non-mandatory, what the authorizers authorize and the money that we have and everything else. So to the questions that will be submitted to the questions you were asked today, the sooner you can get us the answers, the better, because the chair is going to start moving on, on june 11th. And we we get our bills done on time, but we can get our bills done better on time with the more information that we have.
▶ 2:03:11So I thank thank the three of you for your your testimony here today. And once again, please, for all those who serve with you and and under you. We appreciate their their sacrifice. And that includes the civilian workforce that works alongside of you to who's not getting a raise. Gotta fix that. With that, Mr. chair, I thank you and I'll submit questions for the record. >> thank you. And I just want to say I agree with the gentlelady completely here.
▶ 2:03:42We're all together on this. We need this information quickly. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I'm just going to ask one last question. Uh, admiral, uh, on the current rate of operations, when do you expect to run out of money? >> sir, I will have to start making decisions to change training operations, certification events, uh, those type of things we do to generate our force, uh, in the july time frame and the current expenditure.
▶ 2:04:10>> so that that has to come out of a supplemental. >> that's correct, sir. >> that's not that's not going to come out of reconciliation. We need a reconciliation bill immediately, and we need it sent up here, because we need to pay the men and women who serve us gallantly in the united states military. And, uh, we can't do it without money. So, uh, please, would you, uh, if I need to call russ this afternoon, I'll call him. But I don't know who's making this final decision to get this supplemental over here, but we need to get it over here.
▶ 2:04:40Both sides need to look at it. Obviously, the senate needs to look at it. It's going to take some time. Uh, and at the same time, we're going to be doing the base bill for defense appropriations. But it seems to me, based on what you just told me, that we're going to need to do the supplemental first and get this funded as quickly as possible. Um, but with that, uh, before I want to thank all of you for coming here today. Thank your testimony. Thank you for your service. Uh, and we are adjourned.
▶ 2:05:07I run out of money in july.