▶ 0:00:00nor protect consumers or help workers. In fact, Republicans are advancing legislation that goes in the exact opposite direction. One bill would actually actually tell the Federal Reserve to ignore unemployment in this country and the real economic pain families are experiencing every single day. Are any of my Republican colleagues paying attention? really well.
▶ 0:00:31I and Democrats on this committee are paying attention. We know that to address the affordability crisis, we must have the entire government using every tool to help. Mr.
▶ 0:00:45Chairman, 50 years ago, the reason Congress required the Fed to prioritize both full employment and price stability was because unemployment is a primary driver of poverty, racial injustice, and major social problems.
▶ 0:01:02Kretta Scott King knew that a job can be the difference for someone between economic stability and ruin and that every government tool should be used to create the conditions for full employment. She knew that the powerful tools that the Fed wills would could be used to prioritize job creation in this country especially for underserved populations. And she was right.
▶ 0:01:30Now, Republicans want to take us back to the 1970s. Do you know what also happened in the 1970s? Soaring gas prices, endless foreign wars, and rampant government corruption. Mr. Chairman, the American people are not asking Congress to protect powerful corporations using AI to weaken oversight AI or to tell the Fed to ignore the plight of workers.
▶ 0:01:59They're asking us to lower costs, protect consumers, strengthen economic security, and make sure new technology actually works for working families instead of against them. That is exactly what committee Democrats are standing up for today. And so can you. I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:02:21Gentlewoman yields back. Miss Presley, are you asking for a question or what?
▶ 0:02:35You're e the record the record shows the gentleman is eager and prepared for today's markup. Grateful for that. Pursuant to notice, I'd like to call up HR 5396, the Price Stability Act of 2025, which I introduced. The clerk will report the bill, which has been distributed in advance. HR5396 to amend the Federal Reserve Act to remove the mandate on the board of governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee to focus on maximum employment.
▶ 0:03:03Without objection, the first reading is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill is considered read and open to amendment at any time. I have an amendment in the nature of a substitute, the copies of which were been distributed in advance. Clerk will report that amendment.
▶ 0:03:14An amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR 5396 offered by Mr. Hill of Arkansas designated as Hill
▶ 0:03:24Uh without objection, the amendment's considered read and will serve as the base text for the purposes of amendment. I'll recognize myself for five minutes to discuss this bill HR5396, the Price Stability Act of 2025. It's very straightforward. It simply replaces the Federal Reserve's current dual mandate with a single mandate centered on price stability. And I'd like to explain why. and I love my ranking member, but we don't want to go back to disco music in the economy of the 1970s.
▶ 0:03:53And I agree with her on that. But in the ensuing 50 years, many policymakers have sought to reorient the Fed's focus to a single inflationrevention focused mandate uh since it was first adopted back in those uh middle years of the 1970s. Why? Well, first because success is more achievable with fewer mandates and prices will never fall back after a policy mistake.
▶ 0:04:22And I think that focus is so important to the mission of the central bank and to all of our households across the country. Secondly, the Federal Reserve does not influence and has no control over the factors that contribute to the levels of employment or macroeconomic growth. They focus essentially their tool is targeting short-term interest rates only.
▶ 0:04:50Therefore, focusing solely on prevention of inflation is the long-term best medicine for the Fed and for all of our families and business. But let me be clear, the single price uh stabil or the single price stability mandate is in no way, repeat, no way anti-employment. Rather, a superolous employment mandate sets the Fed up for failure.
▶ 0:05:16In the eyes of monetary policy, a maximum employment goal is nothing but a mirage. And we've seen that for five decades. But don't take my word for it. How about let's look at the Fed's own statements on longerrun goals and monetary policy strategy.
▶ 0:05:33Their statement, the Federal Reserve consensus statement confesses that maximum employment is, and I quote, not directly measurable and changes over time owing to largely, and I note this for emphasis, nonmonetary factors, close quote. Unmeasurable, unstable, and therefore, in my judgment, unachievable. Therefore, let's recognize reality.
▶ 0:06:00It's Congress and the executive branch through their regulatory revenue policy spendings decisions that have a dramatic and significant influence over the growth of the economy and labor market But let's set economic theory aside and get down to just plain talk about it. Inflation is a tax on everyone, all of us. Yet, it does not tax everyone equally.
▶ 0:06:31It disproportionately punishes and hurts the poor and minority communities more. Which then begs the question, why don't more of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle consider supporting the Price Stability Act?
▶ 0:06:45the very legislation that marginalized communities would benefit financially from the most if we were successful in targeting inflation and not have it run rampant as it does periodically most recently in the 20 uh late 2020 to 2022 time frame. My colleagues should take a cue from the American public.
▶ 0:07:08Studies have found that Americans would rather cope with facing their own uh temporary unemployment challenge than higher inflation. And of course, if you think about that, that's common sense. If I'm hurt by a job layoff, I can take actions to find another position, advance my skills, work two jobs temporarily, team up with family members, draw on unemployment insurance compensation safety net provided by the federal government.
▶ 0:07:37In other words, my personal actions can change the outcome. But with inflation, the opposite is true. No action I can take can offset the financial damage caused by a cost of living shock.
▶ 0:07:51Whether it's due to the oil price shock of 1972 and the terrible policies of the Johnson, Nixon, and Ford administration that led to rampid inflation, or what we experienced coming out of the pandemic with a supply disruption, inflation, and too much federal spending and two lacks of Federal Reserve policy. Don't believe me or my assertion? How about the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, President Neil Kashkari, a real life example.
▶ 0:08:18A few years back, he met at one of his district's local labor leaders who represents lowincome grocery store and hotel workers. He told you the labor leader said they preferred not to experience inflation. Inflation is worse than a recession was his quote. So, no one wants unemployment or inflation, but I believe the Fed's tools can be only prevent and fight inflation, not structural unemployment. And I yield back. Uh, who seeks recognition of the ranking member?
▶ 0:08:47Uh, thank you very much. I move to strike the last word. You're
▶ 0:08:50recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:08:54Mr. Chairman, I'm deeply uh disappointed that in response to an escalating affordability crisis and rising unemployment rate, Republicans respond by telling the Fed to stop caring about workers. This legislation removes the maximum employment mandate from the board of governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Markets Committee.
▶ 0:09:19Maximum unemployment or employment rather has been part of the Fed's dual mandate since 1977 and requires the Fed to prioritize reducing unemployment while also maintaining stable prices.
▶ 0:09:36Kretta Scott King again championed this mandate because she knew that unemployment was a primary factor causing poverty and social problems and how it disproportionately hurt black and brown communities. She knew and we have learned uh what we have learned for the past 50 years was the Federal Reserve's powerful monetary policy tools could be deployed to reduce unemployment while also maintaining stable prices.
▶ 0:10:07This was an important part of the civil rights movement and not surprisingly we haven't seen the large unemployment rates common earlier in our country's history even as we have navigated pandemics and financial crisis. Decades after establishing the maximum employment mandate and under Democratic leadership, unemployment remained at historic lows below 4% for the longest stretch in 50 years.
▶ 0:10:37However, now after Trump's trade policy, unemployment is again creeping up to 4.3% or 7.4 million people unemployed. doing away doing absolutely away the full employment mandate at this time is just foolish.
▶ 0:10:59Unemployment rates are higher for teenage workers at 14.4%, black workers at 7.3% and Hispanic workers at 5.0% in 2025. Now, black women face the largest employment losses, especially for college graduates and workers in the public sector.
▶ 0:11:24The maximum unemployment rate serves America's workforce in a time of major instability. This bill clearly demonstrates Republican priorities, which do not include people who are struggling to make ends meet with high prices, working multiple jobs, and facing a difficult job market. If my colleagues really want to address inflation, they should go to the root cause.
▶ 0:11:51Trump's failed economic agenda, his tariffs, this war in Iran, and his government dysfunction and raising and rising housing and grocery prices, driving up the cost at the pump and forcing small businesses and nonprofits to shut their doors. Reversing just one of those actions would help Americans. So, I urge everyone to reject this harmful bill.
▶ 0:12:22And while I respect my friend, Mr. Hill, he did not make a good case for why that mandate should be stripped away from the feds. I yield
▶ 0:12:34Gentleoman yields back. Who seeks recognition? The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Tesman.
▶ 0:12:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll try and see if I can make it.
▶ 0:12:41Gentleman moves to strike the last word.
▶ 0:12:42Move the strike last word. Yes.
▶ 0:12:43You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:12:44All right. Thank you. First of all, Mr. Chairman, thank you for the I don't know who put the flowers in the uh the um motion. What is that? Thank you. Yeah, for Mr. Scott, but I just want to recognize his service and he was such a gentleman and he'll be sorely missed here in the committee and appreciate the uh the flowers that honor him. But uh anyway, I want to uh talk a little about the history of the mandate and appreciate the chairman carrying this particular bill.
▶ 0:13:13Many forget that the original Federal Reserve Act of 1913 did not have a dual mandate, no price stability goal, no maximum employment goal, just a goal to maintain elastic currency. People also forget that the Senate originally had drafted the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 to have the Federal Reserve to promote a stable price level.
▶ 0:13:38In fact, since 1919, Congress has introduced at least 103 bills related to price stability. 71 of those bills were led by Democrats. Price stability was on Congress's collective mind well before the introduction of the Fed's dual mandate. Not until the 70s did Congress provide the Fed with the mandate with the dual mandate. Unfortunately, the dual mandate was not born from economic necessity. It was born from the politics of the Great Society era.
▶ 0:14:08So I urge those who are watching at home to take a deeper look at the political environment of the time this change was made. I think it's hard to ignore the persistent influence of LBJ's Great Society reforms and the idea that the federal government should have its hand in every aspect of the economy. For instance, Hubert Humphrey included a Great Society style government jobs program in his draft of what would become the Humphrey Hawkins Act.
▶ 0:14:36If the Fed didn't hit the unemployment target set by Congress, Humphrey's idea was for the federal government to act as an employer of last resort and create jobs for all who wanted one. That sounds to me like a decision driven by bad politics, not just bad economics.
▶ 0:14:53Instead of having the Fed focus on inflation, as it should have since day one, the creation of the dual mandate injected big government politics into the Fed's decisions and forced it to balance two often competing goals.
▶ 0:15:08Even worse is that maximum employment itself cannot be directly measured and fluctuates over time as the economy Unfortunately, those hurt the most are the American people because when the Fed gets the balance between the two mandates wrong, the American people pay the price, whether it's in high prices or higher unemployment.
▶ 0:15:31Back in 2015, I introduced legislation that would end this confusing dual mandate and return the Fed to its original mission of protecting price stability. I'm very happy to see that this legislation lived on and has been introduced by our chairman of the committee in the years since. It's long past time for the Fed to have a single mandate.
▶ 0:15:53And I believe that Chairman Hill's price stability act will accomplish that goal and will help the American people and keep the government focused where it should focus. Thank you. And I'll yield back.
▶ 0:16:04Gentleman yields back. Who seeks Mr. Lynch, you're recognized.
▶ 0:16:12I thank the gentleman. Uh, let me support uh the ranking members comments on this. Uh, first of all, the dual mandate that is contained in Humphrey Hawkins and which governs the Fed today was put in for for reasons that are are keenly relevant to what we're going through right now.
▶ 0:16:36Uh right now we have a threat to millions and millions and millions of jobs all across the country because of We're seeing driverless cars. There's probably over a million truck drivers that that are employed right now that do longhaul driving and and with the improvements are being that are being made right now on driverless vehicles. Those jobs are under threat in the financial services industry.
▶ 0:17:06A lot of the back office jobs that that we see in the business right now are going away as we speak. This is not the time to remove the the the mandate of of full employment from the Federal Reserve. And as far as and I have great respect for for the chairman. I really do. He is a good man. But the Federal Reserve is our chief lender.
▶ 0:17:31And when we have seen high periods of unemployment in this country, the Federal Reserve pulls out its tool that is allowed to use because of the dual mandate. It lowers interest rates. It often uh drives economic growth and it lowers the the employment levels. It lowers the unemployment levels in this country. So it it is perfectly uh appropriate for them for them to do that.
▶ 0:17:59Now the dual mandate also requires balance price stability looking at inflation but but in a corresponding way looking at the ability of Americans to go to work. There are a lot of people out there in various industries.
▶ 0:18:18There are kids in college right now who are choosing their majors and and and and wondering if it is if it is worthwhile to go to college because they're afraid that the the line of uh employment that they're looking at is going away whe a period of extreme uncertainty right now for people in the job market.
▶ 0:18:42This is this is the worst possible time for us to suggest to the Federal Reserve, forget about full employment. Forget about it's not your job. The the other impact on that this bill will have is as we know right now the feds the Fed has very specific mandates because of this the Humphrey Hawkins bill.
▶ 0:19:08While it has many jobs to do, the mandate from Congress to the Fed is focus on price stability, focus on employment. Those are very specific targets. Those are objectives. Those are goals and it guides the Fed in their job. Right now, as it stands, the Federal Reserve priority is employment as well as as well as price stability.
▶ 0:19:38What your bill would do is is completely delete that. Full employment would no longer be a priority for for the Federal Reserve. That is so reckless right now because of the risk on a lot of jobs in this in this country and around the world. This is the worst possible time for you to be suggesting uh something like this to remove the explicit goal of actually uh putting people to work.
▶ 0:20:09The Fed has powerful tools and and if you did talk to if you did talk to labor leaders and and worker advocates around this they see that mandate as something that protects every American worker.
▶ 0:20:27not just union workers or non-UN workers, every single worker because the the levers that that the Fed controls in allowing businesses to to get loans that are that are actually uh that allow them to invest and grow their business. That's all controlled by the interest rate of that the that is set by the Federal Reserve Bank. So, this this is a terrible terrible idea. This is this is one of the one of the worst bills I've seen come up in a long time.
▶ 0:20:57Uh not only because of its its inherent object, but also because of the circumstances that we find ourselves in with so many millions and millions of jobs in this country right now at risk. This is not the time to tell the Fed that full employment doesn't matter. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 0:21:16Gentleman yields back. Who seeks Gentleman from California, Miss Mr.
▶ 0:21:25Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I moved the strike the last word.
▶ 0:21:27You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:21:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with my Democratic colleagues, although I would agree with uh two things that my Republican colleagues did and said, and that is I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and of course, Mr. Stzman, for recognizing Mr. Scott, the flowers you've placed there. He was a beloved member of this committee, and thank you for recognizing. We appreciate that. With all that being said, in 1977, Congress amended the Federal Reserve Act to give our central bank a dual mandate, maximum employment and stable prices.
▶ 0:21:57But that achievement was decades in the making. As a ranking member said, it began with FDR's 1944 State of the Union in which he famously called for an economic bill of rights. It continued with President Truman signing the Employment Act of 1946, affirming that the federal government has a responsibility to promote maximum employment.
▶ 0:22:18And the civil rights leaders, including Ketta Scott King, as was mentioned once again by the ranking member, helped lead the fight to full employment goals in the Humphrey Hawkins Act. Through the civil through the work of the civil rights and labor leaders, maximum employment became an equal pillar of the Fed's max Fed's mandate. That equal footing, it matters. Most Americans don't experience the economy through the markets.
▶ 0:22:44They experience through their paycheck, whether they have one, whether they have a job. When working families in San Diego and across the country ask if the economy is working for them, they're asking, "Can I find work? Does it pay enough? Will I still have it next year? And of course, with all that we've heard with AI and all the other fear that people have out there right now, because the economy is changing, this is a terrible time to make this change.
▶ 0:23:12A strong labor market gives workers bargaining power to ask for a raise, leave a bad job, or demand better conditions. And with labor markets weaken, black and Latino families feel it most acutely. In April of this year, black unemployment was at and Latino unemployment was at 5%, both above the national average of 4.3%.
▶ 0:23:38Any effort to eliminate the Fed's commitment to maximum employment will disproportionately impact working families. Now, we do, I think, Mr. chairman hair hear testimony differently because I heard here the chairman of the Fed, chairman Pal tell this committee on July of 2024 and I want to quote my view has been that the dual mandate has served us well and I agree.
▶ 0:24:06Congress established the dual mandate for a reason and we should not do away with it. Now I would also say that Mr. Chairman, you asked us to quote take a cue from the American public. I I think that we are taking a cue from the American public when they see the the harm that's happening right now in the economy because of the policies of this administration. And sadly, and I say this very sadly, I also hear what the president says.
▶ 0:24:36And I think that my Republican colleagues are taking a cue from what he said. and he said this. I don't think about the Americans about Americans financial situation. That's what he said. I don't think about it. I don't care about Americans financial situation. And I think that's what's in this bill. Americans financial situation for most people depends on a job.
▶ 0:25:04having that opportunity to work, working families being able to pay for the food, for the gas that they need for their families. So, Mr. Chairman, I again, I have great respect for you. Um, I really do, but in this case, I think you're wrong and I hope that we oppose this bill and I I hope it doesn't pass and I urge my colleagues to vote against it. And with that, uh, Mr. Chairman, I um I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:25:33Gentleman yields back who seeks Mr. Cast.
▶ 0:25:40Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. And, uh,
▶ 0:25:43you're moving to strike the last one.
▶ 0:25:45Oh, sorry. Yeah, I will move to strike the last one.
▶ 0:25:46Oh, you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:25:48Uh, thank you. Um, I'm just really concerned by the irresponsibility of this conversation. I I get it. Like, getting rid of the dual mandate was in Project 2025. um it's been a you know it's been a wish list for a long time and we could we could be economically theoretical about this and I think it's appropriate to remember that theory right there is a tension between do do corporate gains flow to labor or to capital.
▶ 0:26:16Um the idea of the dual mandate is to balance that. We could we could get into the economic theory or we could all go back to our district where we're all hearing people saying would you like to make it easier for us to build a data center so that we can automate your job and increase corporate profits that will not be inflationary um but will put you out of work. Um make that speech at home and try to get elected.
▶ 0:26:41I think we all that tension between where do gains flow between capital and labor. And the whole reason that the Fed has a dual mandate is so that the Fed can cannot take a side in that debate. Um I'm not saying this to be opposed to AI. I'm not saying this to be opposed to labor productivity. I am happy that I don't have to churn my own butter, right?
▶ 0:27:05But but the Fed still has to make a decision around when the economy gets going too hot one way, what do we do when it gets going too hot the other way? And if we take that away, what are we left with? And the reason I say that this is so irresponsible is that there was this there was this New Republic article this week that I would encourage you all to read that described the leadership of the Republican party right now as the last gasps of a cult who are staying to the bitter end.
▶ 0:27:34You all can't talk about the fact that the president can't stay awake in a pre press conference. You all can't talk about the fact that he's starting needless wars that are driving up the price of gasoline um and all energy sources. You all can't talk about the fact that he's a convicted felon. The most critical thing that I think you are allowed to say about him and still be a member of the cult in good standing is that he's a latter-day Cyrus sent by Jesus to bring about the second coming. You got to work through all that.
▶ 0:28:03But in the meantime, there is a practical that whatever you do with interest rates right now, you are still stuck in a situation where inflation is being driven by high energy costs that are the result of dumb foreign policy um and is driven by high tariffs that are the result of dumb economic policy. In the words of that great philosopher Ron White, you can't fix stupid and you certainly can't fix it with interest You have a practical reality in labor markets right now.
▶ 0:28:33The last Obama's second term, there were 10 million jobs created. Trump's first term, there were almost three million jobs destroyed. Biden, 16 million jobs created. Trump so far, kudos for him, he's created 120,000 jobs through February. If he stays on pace, maybe he'll break $400,000 by the end of his term. But the trend line isn't looking that way.
▶ 0:29:01You are sitting here watching employment in the United States collapse. Hiring is at at historic lows. Inflation is at historic highs. You can't fix that with interest rates. You can fix that with oversight. You can fix that by getting out of the cult. You can fix that by taking your oath to the Constitution and this institution seriously.
▶ 0:29:21And someday when you're out of the cult, you are going to want an independent Fed to make sure that that bias doesn't sit So I'm left saying this is not complicated. There are a number of laws that were passed in the 1920s that you all really seem to like. Don't get rid of this one. I yield back.
▶ 0:29:51Gentleman yields back, seeks Gentleoman from Massachusetts.
▶ 0:29:59thank you, Mr. Chair. Um,
▶ 0:30:01are you moving to strike the last word or do you have an amendment at the desk or what?
▶ 0:30:05Just looking to participate in general
▶ 0:30:07You're moving to strike what you're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:30:09Yes. Thank you. Um, like Ranking Member Waters and my Democratic colleagues, I've vigorously opposed this legislation to strip the mandate for maximum employment from the mission of the Federal Reserve. I mean, I never thought that my Republican colleagues would need a lesson on the importance of gainful employment and having a job. Even Ronald Reagan said that he believed the best social program is a job. And yet, here we are.
▶ 0:30:40The best way to support working families is to keep them working. Plain and simple. Maximizing employment is good for our economy. It's good for our communities. It's good for our families. And to deny that truth is to deny reality.
▶ 0:30:58So, I'm confident that the American people will see through these um baseless talking points and agree with Democrats that everyone should be able to get a job, to work a job, and to earn a living. Work is is pride. It's dignity. It's essential to survive, to thrive, to even to dream.
▶ 0:31:28I've been uh working I've been employed since I was 13 14 years old. Um many young people pursue jobs whether it's um being a bagger at a grocery store or work in retail not just for enrichment or for exposure but because it is essential. I was working at the age of 14 to contribute to my household income.
▶ 0:31:54Or or what if young adults, recent graduates uh from college or a trade school who want to save for a house or maybe even start a business one day or, you know, as a mother, I think about what it means to be able to see the light behind my child's eyes when I can provide them with a vacation or uh some gift that they've been uh begging for.
▶ 0:32:20And and for our elders, increasingly so under a Trump administration and economy, retirement is farther and farther out of reach. And uh many of our elders have no choice but to work in order to pay for life-saving medication and to keep a roof over their head. So all this to say that having a job is not a statistic. It is essential. It is dignity. The dignity of work is transformational. That's what the Fed's mandate for maximum employment is about.
▶ 0:32:49This mission was not created in a vacuum. It dates back to the Great Depression and recognition that people should be able to earn a living, provide for themselves and their family. There was nearly unanimous support by Republicans and Democrats for maximum employment when the mandate passed Congress. The Federal Reserve Board of Governors is the only independent agency that works on improving employment. Some argue that this is the role of the Department of Labor, but in Trump's America, the Labor Department is a joke. We don't even have a secretary of labor right now.
▶ 0:33:18So the Fed's mandate is essential and always has been. During the great recession of 2008, massive job loss, the Fed stepped in to maximize employment. During the CO9 pandemic and record layoffs, the Fed once again pursued its mandam its mandate of maximum employment. And in in this moment, we need the Fed to do more, not For months, I've been sounding the alarm about the current unemployment crisis.
▶ 0:33:43The unemployment rate has increased to 4.3% due to Trump's reckless policies like firing government workers, attacking small businesses. And when you analyze the data, black unemployment specifically is at 7.3%. These are the worst rates we've seen since the pandemic. Black workers are the canaries in the coal mine. What happens to our community first? Happens to everyone next. So folks should take People are looking for jobs. People want to work, but Trump's economy won't let them.
▶ 0:34:12Just last week, Fed Chair Jerome Pal announced the jobs numbers and said something my Republicans need to hear. There is little hiring going on. And for many Americans, it doesn't feel like a good labor market. So, the solution to the current unemployment problem is not to tell the Fed to abandon the goal of maximum employment. The solution is to empower the Fed to do even more. Recent graduates deserve more. Having a job and earning a paycheck is a beautiful and essential thing.
▶ 0:34:38So, I just want to say this to folks at home in the midst of all of this this anti- worker policies against paid leave, child care, supporting tariffs, suppressing wages. To those who keep applying to jobs but still aren't hearing back. To those who are wondering how they're going to pay their bills without a paycheck. To those who are doing everything right, but the economy is roll. To those who know and appreciate the dignity of work, I see you.
▶ 0:35:04I'm fighting for you and that is why I oppose this bill and I urge my colleagues to do the
▶ 0:35:14Gentleman yields back who seeks recognition. Gentleman from Iowa.
▶ 0:35:18Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I move to strike last word.
▶ 0:35:20Gentleman's recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:35:22I think the chairman's bill speaks directly to the ability of the Fed to help in not only lowering our interest rates, but the job creation will follow. as opposed to just talking points in this committee. I'm proud to hear that you actually have legislation leading to a fix towards this. So, with that, I'd like to yield the remainder of my time to the chairman to walk us through the bill. I appreciate the the gentleman from Iowa's help. I've been listening to this debate. I find it uh truly fascinating that some on the other side of the aisle somehow think that this bill is anti- full employment.
▶ 0:35:53Completely wrong. This bill is about stopping inflation from punishing every household. And I argue that the Fed's ability to influence maximum employment is not a reality. And Neil Qashqari, president of the bank in Minneapolis, agrees. Many former governors agree. And you know, let's look at the world. This is not the standard of global central banking. I mean, most central banks focus on fighting inflation.
▶ 0:36:21Who had the worst inflation in the 20th century? The Germans. They have a single mandate. The European Central Bank single mandate. Swiss National Bank single mandate. Bank of New Zealand single mandate. The polls single mandate. So this is not some out of the out of thinking concept to fight inflation as the principal mandate of the central bank.
▶ 0:36:43My point is that that should be the principal mandate of the bank and that these issues about influencing the level of employment, the maximum level of employment all are impacted by decisions we take here in Congress in fiscal policy, regulatory policy. And my friends on the other aisle may talk about, well, what about those with who have child care needs, those who have lower monthly earnings, but many on the other side, they all voted against doubling the child tax credit just last year.
▶ 0:37:11They voted against tax cuts for uh families uh here. And so this is not about uh maximum employment versus price stability. It's about the role in government to achieve that. And I argue that the central bank in our country's main mission should be fighting inflation, which is that punishing tax on all Americans and all business that's so disruptive and so helplessness creating.
▶ 0:37:40And that if you are for faster economic growth, more careers, faster employment growth, higher real wages, then you should have perhaps voted last year with House Republicans to lower income tax burdens on working families, double the child tax credit, lower regulatory burdens on business to create jobs. And in this committee, I must say that that theme has been bipartisan.
▶ 0:38:04Just yesterday on the House floor, we had a marvelous debate where Democrats and Republicans came together recognizing that if we want a vigorous economy with more careers, more jobs, more higher real wage growth, we should facilitate our main street community banks to uh tackle that with a lower compliance burden for well-managed banks. 4,000 banks
▶ 0:38:27will benefit. I will not yield. I'm finishing my point, but I thank the gentleoman. Um, and so I just want to echo the comment that Mr. Casten of Illinois made that you can't fix stupid with interest rates, I believe was his quote. I agree. You can't achieve maximum employment by relying quote unquote on a dual mandate in the Fed.
▶ 0:38:50that instead you need to recognize that if you want maximum economic growth in the country that our regulatory policy, our tax policy, yes, our trade policy, our budget deficit policy, all those things influence that greater picture about maximum uh employment. And so I really I want to thank the gentleman from uh Iowa for yielding some time and I yield back to him.
▶ 0:39:18Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield the remainder of my time.
▶ 0:39:22Gentleman from Iowa yields back. Who seeks recognition?
▶ 0:39:29I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 0:39:30The ranking member has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause while it's
▶ 0:39:43Mr. Chairman, like to reserve a point of
▶ 0:39:45A gentleman reserves a point of order. Mr. Muser reserves a point of order.
▶ 0:39:57Okay, leave it at that.
▶ 0:40:07Should I do the strike? Clerk will report the amendment. An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR5396 offered by Miss Waters of California designated as HR539601.
▶ 0:40:34The without objection, the amendment is considered read and I recognize the gentleoman from California to describe her amendment.
▶ 0:40:41Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If we're going to be reforming the Federal Reserve, we should adopt reforms to strengthen the independence of the Fed, especially given the constant threats and attacks the president has launched on it. It is absolutely shameful the way the president has tried to take over the Fed. Tried hard to get rid of Chairman Powell.
▶ 0:41:06Just brazenly and openly wanted to take over the Fed the way he's taken over the Justice Department and the SEC and other agencies of government. So my amendment adds a sense of Congress supporting the independence of maintaining the Fed's independence and that the Department of Justice is prohibited from opening an investigation into Federal Reserve officials without due process and designed to intimidate the officials into carrying out the president's wishes.
▶ 0:41:36I believe everyone in this room supports maintaining the independence of our central bank, the Federal Reserve. We know the evidence from other countries that when a central bank's independent is compromised, the economy often suffers from hyperinflation and massive price increases that hurts consumers. As I've said before, the Department of Justice's criminal investigation into Fed Chair J.
▶ 0:42:01Powell was baseless, politically motivated, and abuse of power from one day from day one. and it was the unlawful unlawful attempt to fire Governor Lisa Cook. These and other actions were clearly designed to intimidate the leaders of the Federal Reserve and being one of the most important economic institutions in the world to Trump's will.
▶ 0:42:26And while the Senate confirmed a new chair after Trump's DOG was paused, this is far from over. Trump has not dropped his effort to remove Governor Cook or the bogus investigation of her mortgage files.
▶ 0:42:42And the threat to reopen the investigation into Chair Pal is still hanging over the Federal Reserve like a cloud, sending a chilling message to any Fed official who refuses to fall in line with this administration's political agenda. Let us be very clear. The Federal Reserve s serves the American people, not Donald Trump.
▶ 0:43:04The administration must immediately drop all efforts bar targeting any Federal Reserve official, including the continued attacks on Governor Lisa Cook. And I urge members to join me in standing up for a strong independent Federal Reserve that serves as a cornerstone of the greatest economy in the world and remains unac uh accountable to Congress and the American people and support this amendment. Let me just say this.
▶ 0:43:33Everybody knows Democrats, Republicans, people out there knows that this president has brazenly taken over our agencies and wanted to determine the interest rates. singularly by himself. Everybody knows uh that they have bent uh to the president his choices for the heads of these agencies, the justice department, uh the Federal Reserve, the SEC, on and on and on. Stop hiding the truth. Stop ignoring the truth.
▶ 0:44:03It is getting very irritating. And when you come talking about you want to do something uh about changing the mandate, is that what the president asked you to do? Are you following his orders? Because that's what he determines that he wants to run all of these agencies. I am going to stop uh being uh nice about these issues. The fact of the matter is you're bringing this up today helps to focus on what this president is doing.
▶ 0:44:34I'm sick and tired of it. Americans are sick and tired of it. He does not own this country. He's the president of the United States of America. He does not own all of the federal agency. And what he has done to try to eliminate POW is absolutely unconscionable. And we've got to let stop it. We've got to stop this president from acting in this manner.
▶ 0:44:58And members of his party, I think it's time for you to step up to the plate and deal with this issue in a real way. And so you go after reform because you want to remove the mandate. Give me a break. That's not a real issue. Deal with what the president is trying to do to Lisa Cook and to Pal right now because he think he owns the Fed. He wants to determine interest rates. He doesn't give a darn about the Constitution of the United States of America.
▶ 0:45:24And so I ask all of the members on both side of the aisle, step up and do what you were elected to do and defend the defend these agencies. And I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:45:36Gentle moment yields back. Does the gentleman insist on his point of order?
▶ 0:45:41No, chairman, I do not.
▶ 0:45:42Gentleman withdraws his point of order. He seeks recognition. Mr. Vargas.
▶ 0:45:50Thank you, man. Mr. Strike the last
▶ 0:45:52You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:45:54Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I support this amendment. I think it was very well said by the ranking member that the president has attacked quite blatantly the independence of the Fed by going after the Fed chair. We saw that. Everyone saw that. Um certainly also Governor Cook. Everybody saw that. In fact, the only thing that I would disagree with the ranking member is this. You said that the other side should step up to the plate.
▶ 0:46:25They do when they're leaving. they do when they're leaving, not running for another office. I see the senator now on the other side saying what the president's doing, what his department of justice is doing, pal, is wrong. And I'm not going to support anybody until they drop the criminal investigation. He somehow got courage when he was leaving because he's not running for anything else. He's not running for reelection.
▶ 0:46:54he's not running for another position. So all of a sudden he stood up on his hind feet finally and said what everybody knew that this was a terrible thing that the president was doing. He was really demanding that the Department of Justice go after him. He took over the departments of justice. He he really is normalizing these processes that we would think are crazy that somehow the president can just say prosecute that person because I don't like him.
▶ 0:47:25And finally, the again the only thing I would disagree with you um ranking member through the chair is that oh no they they step up to the plate when they're leaving. I'd also have to say, it's obvious to me there's a couple, at least one member who is leaving on the other side of the aisle who certainly is starting to speak up too, um, from one of the northern states. He's leaving now and he's saying some of these things also.
▶ 0:47:53So again, I would hope that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would stand because some of the stuff the president's doing, you know that if a Democratic president was doing it, you would stand up and say, "This is crazy. you can't do these things and yet you don't say a darn thing until again you're leaving and not running for another office. Then you do step up to the plate and that's sad. Now I do have to say that I heard some comments about why didn't we, you know, stand up and cut taxes and the big ugly bill for working families.
▶ 0:48:22Well, we want to cut taxes for working families, but we also know that most of that money, the tax went to billionaire families. It didn't go to working families. It went to billionaire families. And in fact, the $600, $700 tax cut that they got was replaced now with higher tax price higher prices on the gas gas prices. So all of a sudden, they don't have a break at all. That big ugly bill didn't do a damn thing for them.
▶ 0:48:46In fact, ask any working family in America and they say, "Are you better off this year than you were last year?" No, because the prices are up because of all the policies of this administration, of this president. So, no, we didn't vote for that big ugly bill because we knew that all the good stuff went to the billionaire class and the scraps went to everybody else. That's why we didn't vote for it and wouldn't vote for it.
▶ 0:49:13If it had been a a true bill where you tried to work tried to help the working class and those that are poor, we would have all supported that. But we saw what this was. was smokeokc screened to give a working class 600 buck 800 bucks cut on their taxes and then again charge them $1,000 more for gas the next damn So with that uh I yield back and again I thank the ranking member.
▶ 0:49:39Will the gentleman yield?
▶ 0:49:40I do yield.
▶ 0:49:41Thank you very much about Chairman Was he respected by both sides of the aisle in this committee? Chairman Powell,
▶ 0:49:54did he work with both Republicans and
▶ 0:49:59Was he respected for his work and the way that he handled himself? And didn't even Mr. Hill speak up for him?
▶ 0:50:06Yes, he did.
▶ 0:50:07And so, Chairman Pal was everything that you would want in a chair of the feds. Yet we don't have the members on the opposite side of the aisle strong enough uh to not only speak up but to fight against this president and his takeovers on any agency. They've got to stop it. He's running the democracy. He's running this country. And so we still have a fight on Lisa Cook.
▶ 0:50:36Are they going to change their minds and do the right thing? I don't know whether they will or not. But let's keep on it. Let's not stop. Let's talk about the brazeness of this president and a lack of response from the Republicans who should be saying to the president of the United States, "No, Mr. President, that's wrong." I yield back. I yield back to the gentleman.
▶ 0:51:00And I yield back to gentleman yields back. Who seeks recognition? Let me recognize myself for five minutes. So, I appreciate the gentleoman's uh argument about Fed independence. Nobody's been an outspoken supporter of Fed independence more than I have for, I'd say, four decades.
▶ 0:51:24And I' I would add just on the particular nature of Mr. Pal, uh I'm not leaving office. I'm happily running for reelection, looking forward to serving as chairman of this committee next Congress. And I spoke up on January 12th saying that it was uh wrong to have a DOJ investigation of J.
▶ 0:51:41pal that he had done nothing criminal and that the whole matter was a distraction to the economic policy of the United States and the oversight conducted by this committee and I think still stand by that comment. I'm grateful for uh Senator Tillis who's I wouldn't call it a northern state but North Carolina uh who did speak up.
▶ 0:52:02I'm grateful for his support and his role in the advise and consent in the Senate and I look forward to serving with a chairman Kevin Worsh of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors in before this committee just as we all uh were engaged with former chairman Pal when the Senate takes their final decision.
▶ 0:52:24Let me say the Fed is not immune from criticism and Fed governors and Fed chairman are not immune from criticism by the executive branch or the legislative branch. And we all know that. We all know that's absolutely true.
▶ 0:52:38And let me say uh when we think about uh intimidation, how would you like to have a Fed uh chairman called to your personal residence and then shoved up against the wall and told if you don't uh cut interest rates, I'm going to fill in the blank. Lyndon Johnson, William McKesznney Martin, 1960s. Yeah, he's dead. Lyndon Johnson's dead and Martin's dead. You're right, Mr. Madam Ranking member.
▶ 0:53:05But the point is that there have been attempts by presidents in the past, Truman, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, others, to criticize their Fed chairman, even the Fed chairs they appointed, because they disagree. Uh, and that's, you know, their right to do that. I don't think they should resort to intimidation. I don't think they should resort to the kinds of actions that we've seen over the years.
▶ 0:53:28Will the gentleman yield?
▶ 0:53:30I will not yield. And I don't
▶ 0:53:31Did they call for an investigation? Uh, I would say yes, madame ranking member, but I'm not engaging and I'm not engaging in this. I'm going to simply respond that there are attacks on the Fed, some quite crass, rude, investigatory, and threatening by former presidents. I don't support that either in American history, and I don't support it now. But the point is that it happens.
▶ 0:53:55And in this committee, we have the right to oversee the Fed and we have the right to criticize uh the decisions taken by the Fed, which is why I created a monetary policy and treasury market structure task force uh to do exactly that. Let's thoughtfully look at
▶ 0:54:10Well, the gentleman
▶ 0:54:11I will not madame ranking member that is why we have uh a monetary policy task force to look at the oversight of both the Fed structure, the Fed monetary policy since the financial crisis. And I'm grateful to the ranking member of that committee, Mr. Vargas, for his outstanding uh participation uh in that subcommittee and or that task force and its work. But I have to I have to say that while the Fed can be criticized, in my view, this committee stands for Fed independence.
▶ 0:54:41That's why it is independent and why I don't believe we need to have a yes vote on this amendment. And I urge a no vote on the amendment. And I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 0:54:51Mr. Chairman,
▶ 0:54:54may I strike the last word?
▶ 0:54:56Recognize the strike the last word. Five
▶ 0:54:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Very briefly, you were right on January 12th when you called out the administration for for going after uh Jay Powell uh on the construction project that they they found that he was uh he was mishandling.
▶ 0:55:17Uh I think all of us know that the Federal the chair of the Federal Reserve does not you know run his own construction operation and uh coming out of that industry I I certainly thought it was uh totally uh over the top in terms of going after him and I it has been uh it makes me cringe what I what I see going on right now with with the president the department of labor excuse me the top department of justice going after
▶ 0:55:47uh uh Chair Powell uh on that to try to force him force him out. I'm delighted that he's going to stay on as a member of the uh the Fed, as a board member. Uh but I believe you and I believe Mr. Tillis and I and I welcome his uh his comments. I you know, you know, people can complain about the timing, but he did step up and he did try to defend the independence of the Fed. So, I give him credit for that.
▶ 0:56:15I don't take off points because he's going to be retire anytime soon. Uh and I I just it it is really really important if we look around the world there are there are uh there are leaders of countries I I I point to Turkey where uh uh Prime Minister Erdogan stepped in and and and started to direct his own economic policy. His monetary policy was a disaster.
▶ 0:56:41Uh, and I think if if this president is allowed to do or any president is allowed to do that, we could suffer the consequences and and that would be bad for all Americans. Uh, with that, I I do want to yield the balance of my time to the ranking member to see what she might have on on her
▶ 0:56:59Thank you very much. Uh, Mr. Lynch, it's about time that we have this public discussion. To my friend, Mr. Hill, you talk about it is all right to criticize. Yeah, it's all right to criticize, but it's not all right to attack and try to destroy a very credible president of the Fed.
▶ 0:57:20It is all It is not all right to think that you singular can determine the interest rates when the chairman and the Fed officers have all of the information before them coming in daily, hourly, every minute. They have everything to look at and to analyze to make these decisions. But no, this president doesn't care about this. This wasn't criticized. This was attacked.
▶ 0:57:46And Lisa Cook, the first black woman to be an officer. All of a sudden, he's looking into her whether or not she filled out her mortgage papers correctly as being done in New York.
▶ 0:58:02If you take a look at every member of Congress and determine whether or not their mortgage papers were filled out correctly and whether or not they didn't indicate that they were going to use it as their private residence how long, 10 years, 50 years, 30 years, what have you, this is bogus. This president is outrageous. He's suing the Justice Department, his own justice department for $230 million.
▶ 0:58:29He's ch Oh, he's suing the IRS for I think over, let's see, $13 billion dollar. Now, this is the president of the United States who can talk with his cabinet any day of the week, can talk with members of the Congress. No, he decides he's going to use his power not only to threaten uh but to sue them, suing the Justice Department.
▶ 0:58:55Here's a man that pardoned all of those who attacked the United States government. We were hiding under our desk. The vice president of the United States was threatened to be hanged when they attacked this Congress of the United States. So, I'm kind of sick and tired of, you know, this being not talked about, uh, this being protected by members of the Republican party.
▶ 0:59:22I thank you for what you did in your individual support of Chairman Powell, but let's look at all of this other stuff that he is doing. Let's look at what you call criticism that's really attacked. And now, you know, also I tell you, he attacked Powell because Powell was trying to upgrade the facility, the building in a very, very legal way.
▶ 0:59:50But nor the president of the United States who's tearing down the White House to build a ballroom and lied about it. A president of the United States. Yes, you can call me on that, but he lied about
▶ 1:00:02Gentleman's gentleman's Mr. Lynch's time is expired. Who seeks recognition? Gentleman from Indiana.
▶ 1:00:08Move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:00:10You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:00:11Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh I just want to you know say a couple of things
▶ 1:00:16you know the the presidents that voice their opinion uh regarding policy that Federal Reserve chairs make and I think it's important that presidents make comments because they're representing the people and the independence that the Fed has is important to defend.
▶ 1:00:37And I would believe that every chair of the Fed that's been appointed probably knows that the president may say something about their policies and that they're big people. They can handle it. Um so you know it it's a bipartisan uh practice and as the chairman mentioned other presidents that have made comments um and the former Fed chairs have even worked together to do a letter to defend the independence of the Fed.
▶ 1:01:07So this is about accountability. This is about balance. The process is working. The system is working. But the president has every right to criticize Fed policy because he's representing the people of the United States. And uh as far as the inspector general uh at the Fed, he's taken over the federal building investigation from the DOJ.
▶ 1:01:31I met with him a couple of weeks ago and I have full confidence in him that he is going to be sure that there was accountability, that there weren't misuse of funds. Uh, anytime you look at the price of a building and realize that something seems out of whack, there should be questions asked and so the process is working. I appreciate the president being willing to call out uh the Fed on will yell.
▶ 1:01:59Uh, no, not right now.
▶ 1:02:00I know you wouldn't yell cuz you don't want to hear the truth.
▶ 1:02:04Well, you know what? This is a good conversation and I think that it's important that both sides share their opinion. But, you know, as as one of my colleagues said on the other side of the aisle that, you know, members of the Republican side leave Congress and speak poorly of the president. They probably just disagreed with the president to begin with.
▶ 1:02:20Um because I know that uh I am I mean I was out of office and ran again because of what happened in 2020 and what COVID did to small businesses in my state and what President Biden's policies did to this country, the inflation that happened under President Biden, the cost of living that went up dramatically under President Biden.
▶ 1:02:46So, this is a clean up on aisle five that we're having to to go through to clean up the mess that has been left to us. Whether it's President Obama with Iran, whether it's President Biden and the economy, this is an important piece of policy to focus on one particular uh item rather than two uh that really competes with each other.
▶ 1:03:09And so I think it's important to have uh the the accountability and the balance between the branches of government. The Federal Reserve's independence is important, but the president uh is the one who was elected by the people and should always have the freedom to voice his and so should we as members of the Congress.
▶ 1:03:30I want to thank the gentleman from Indiana for yielding and thanking for standing up for Fed independence. I think that's important and you referenced that and also standing up for you know the president has first amendment rights and the economic policies elected by all the people to speak his mind and as I've said from Truman uh who uh threatened he brought the whole FOMC the Federal Open Market Committee to the White House to tell them he disagreed with them in a public meeting to Mr. Johnson's treatment of of Martin to Mr.
▶ 1:04:00Nixon's intimidation and investigations, using that word, on Arthur Burns, uh to President Reagan's tough conversation at the beginning of the 1984 campaign with Mr. Greenspan. This is this is the world we live in. But you also referenced that the DOJ has closed their criminal investigation into the Federal Reserve building investigation. I applauded that when it happened, long overdue, and turned it over to the Fed IG.
▶ 1:04:29I'm glad you as an individual member of Congress conducting your own oversight responsibility met with the Fed IG on that. They're rightfully looking into it. And this is a place where the committee, the House Financial Services Committee, the Senate Banking Committee can review what we learned from that inspector general uh investigation, looking through all the ways and means and causes and effects of this enormous uh renovation program down on Constitutional Avenue on the part of
▶ 1:04:59uh so we'll see what the inspector general report is. That's certainly in the oversight capacity of this committee and uh that of the Senate Banking Committee. I yield back to my friend.
▶ 1:05:09I would just say that the criticism if President Trump built the Federal Reserve B building, the criticism would be outrageous. Uh if it was him that was there building it instead of the the Fed chair oversight. So I yield back. Gentleman yields back. He seeks recognition. Mr. Presley, you're
▶ 1:05:25Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I thank our ranking member for this uh this thoughtful amendment. Um and uh want to yield at this time uh to u our my colleague Mr. Vargas.
▶ 1:05:36Well, thank you very much. I thank the gentle lady for yielding. Um I also want to thank the chair. Mr. Chair, we all looked to you frankly when the attack happened on Mr. Pal and the integrity of the independence of the Fed. And you didn't let us down and we appreciate that. you you stood tall and and you said the right thing and I again want to thank you for that. I think you have a lot of integrity.
▶ 1:06:07Um I disagree with you obviously on this point. I think we the dual mandate is important um and and that's why we we fight about this. However, um it it seems clear to me that the things that the president is doing are not normal. They're not it's not disagreeing. It's not a first amendment right that we're arguing about here. He sicks the Department of Justice on people he disagrees with.
▶ 1:06:37That's not In fact, it should be illegal. It should be illegal. There should be independence there from the Department of Justice. And to the Fed chair, who by the way is a Republican, I mean, it's kind of interesting. I mean, we respect him because we we think he's an integral person that deserves respect. Not because he's a Democratic like that. He certainly isn't. A lot of his policies I don't agree with. I don't agree with at all.
▶ 1:07:04But he he's again I I think a very honest person and that's why I think we all defend him. I actually would like to see the interest rates come down. I disagree with him on that. I I'm actually more in line with what the president thinks that yeah, let's lower the interest rates. I think it's better for the economy. But I agree that there has to be independence there. That's why, you know, and I and I criticize the Fed over it.
▶ 1:07:29But I don't say get the Justice Department now to go after him to see if that will put pressure on him. And by the way, it's interesting too if you actually go and see the construction. Everybody talks about the building. There's actually two buildings. And that's I think part of the problem that the Fed had one building. They were asked to renovate the second building. That's been a lot of the overrun. Now, I think it's appropriate though to take a look at that and have the general inspector.
▶ 1:07:56In fact, we should do that with the reflection pool down at the Lincoln Memorial. We should do that right there. I mean, it was supposed to be a 1.3 billion million dollar um you know, repair and now it's what 10 times more almost non-compete contract. And I think we can criticize that and take a look at that. That's a smaller thing. But I mean, some of the things that the president's doing again with the Department of Justice is is outrageous. It it is outrageous.
▶ 1:08:25So anyway, I again I I thank the gentle lady for yielding. I do want to make one correction though, Mr. Chair, and that is I believe that Nebraska, not North Carolina, but Nebraska, and I said a member of the House is making comments now that I think he would have made if he's not leaving, or maybe he would have. He's actually quite a brave gentleman. I know him well. He said that some of the things the president doing are foolish and morally not very clear. I think that Nebraska is north of the Mason Dixon
▶ 1:08:55I thought I I beg the gentleman's part. I thought you were referring to Mr. Telis in the Senate uh in North Carolina. I apolog Yeah. No, thank you. No, North Carolina I know well. Oddly enough, I do have two nephews that live there in that fabulous state. So, I'm very familiar with North Carolina. Uh although perspective is everything, Mr. chair. I live in San Diego. Everything's north for me. And with that, uh, I thank the gentle lady for yielding.
▶ 1:09:25Thank you.
▶ 1:09:26The gentleman yields back to Miss Presley. Mr. Presley, are you yielding back or are you continuing? M. The gentleman from Massachusetts yields back. Who seeks recognition? The gentleman from Florida.
▶ 1:09:36Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move this strike the last word.
▶ 1:09:37You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:09:39Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I'll just go back. I I'm a history teacher by trade and I think it's very important what the chairman has mentioned about President Truman, President Johnson, President Nixon, meaning both parties have been guilty of this uh scenario. But that said, I I really want to emphasize one of the questions I actually asked the chairman of the Fed while he was here. And I asked him two basic questions.
▶ 1:10:01I said, "Did the government overspend during the Biden presidency?" and he said yes, that was one of the leading causes of inflation. He said it right before us and everyone's agreeing how great he is. Well, that was his comment. Second thing I would add to that is that he admitted right here that they messed up on interest rates during those years. It's one of the reasons why inflation was also so high. And so I would go to that. And so the president criticizing the Fed board is welcome to politics.
▶ 1:10:32We're all playing it right now. The second part I would mention uh beyond this uh history lesson is the sense that Mr. Vargas talked about you know not being normal. Let let's just recall what's happened. I Mr. Vargas brought up the question about gas prices and some of us were all struggling with that. No doubt about it. But I would also go back to history and saying we got rid of the Keystone pipeline just a few years ago. That would have lowered gas prices.
▶ 1:10:59We also got rid of 40% of our strategic oil reserve because we were playing politics during the previous administration. So the way that you reduce prices is not by playing politics. It's by increasing the supply of oil. And that's what we are attempting to do. The good news is is we've gone from a little less than 9 million barrels a day to a little bit over 13 million barrels a day. And that's a positive sign. and would soon Venezuela will come on board. We'll see some additional relief there.
▶ 1:11:28And when this conflict ends, because every president of the United States since 1979 has said that Iran is a major problem and yes, we're all struggling with high gas prices right now. But when this conflict ends, there will be long-term gas relief. And and just for our our again a history lesson here, in the summer of 2013, adjusted for inflation, oil was $147 a barrel. 2013, you can decide who is president.
▶ 1:11:57Then 2022, a barrel. And so let's put this in again historical perspective where we're at. We all hate high gas prices. We all hate high interest rates. And guess what? We all play politics. But what we're trying to do here is get to the chairman's point, which is there was dramatic overspending at the Fed. We look more closely at it. Since then, the investigation has ended, but that's a logical thing to do.
▶ 1:12:23And it's the same logical thing to do to use the oversight committee to look at how dollars are spent on both sides of the administration. So, uh, and finally, I just say to Mr. Vargas, he brought up a lot of issues about taxes. The other party happened to be in power. I I wasn't in office, but I was a history teacher and I used to teach this in the classroom. they had the opportunity to lower taxes exclusively on tips, overtime and social security. That didn't happen. So, so the the sense of opportunity for tax relief is always there.
▶ 1:12:53And the good news is when you put money back in people's pockets, they do wonderful things to do it because they earn it. And so I'm very confident that that we as a as a committee, which is so impressive, we work on a bipartisan basis. And it's just a shame we we have to get in this back and forth today as opposed to working on the policies that the chairman is looking to pursue. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your thoughtful debate today and I yield
▶ 1:13:15The gentleman yields back who seeks recognition. The gentleoman from gentleoman from Texas, Miss Garcia, you're recognized.
▶ 1:13:22Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I uh want to speak in support of this resolution. And it just completely baffles me that there seems to be so much discussion against this. And that Mr. Chair, I totally respect you, but for you to urge your your colleagues to vote no makes no sense to me. I think we should do everything humanly possible, especially in this committee, to protect the independence of the Fed. Um, and yes, I agree.
▶ 1:13:47Everyone has a a a chance to voice an opinion. We all can do that as members of Congress and senators and and even the fellow in the White House can. But what he's doing is not voicing an opinion. He's attacking the chairman of the Fed. He's attacking its very independence which is at the heart of our keeping our economic uh policies in place.
▶ 1:14:12Um you know there's constructive criticism and then there's destructive criticism. There's there's there's this uh thing about this president that frankly I don't think should be should be uh condoned. It is not normal. This is not the world we really should be living in. Uh hearing the attacks on on uh Chairman Pal, hearing the attacks on on our member Cook and just getting the just department to do an investigation.
▶ 1:14:43It's fine now to say, "Oh, well, the attorney general will decide, well, but who urged them to do it? Who ordered them to do it?" That's the real question. And you know, and while I'm at it, you know, as a former judge and a lawyer, we need to protect the independence of the Justice Department. because it has been weaponized to the umpth degree.
▶ 1:15:01So, um I voiced my strong support for this uh amendment and uh with that I want to yield the remainder of my time to the the maker of the amendment um our ranking member uh Maxine Waters.
▶ 1:15:16Thank you very much, Miss Garcia. I appreciate your yield. Let me tell you when we have the opportunity we should take it to talk about the issues in a way that we understand and we know what is going on. Share information with the public and raise questions about anybody in government that we want to raise questions about.
▶ 1:15:43Today, this bill before us is about one of the mandates. Well, I take the opportunity to say, "Yeah, let's talk about the Fed." But in addition to the mandates, I want to talk about the attack on the Fed's independence. The Federal Reserve must be independent.
▶ 1:16:03the president or no member of Congress should be able to undermine uh the Fed chair and tell them what they must should and better do about interest rates. And the president of the United States didn't even talk about public policy as much as he said, "I want to run it. I want to fire you." We were very, very fortunate that the president of the Fed said, "You're not firing me.
▶ 1:16:30I'm not going anywhere." and he threatened the Fed, but because there were enough on the Senate side and you even Mr. Hill who stood up for him, uh, then the right thing was done while a new Fed chair was being nominated and and voted on by the Senate. But in talking about the president of the United States and wanting to take over everything, I pointed out what he's doing with the Justice Department with IRS.
▶ 1:16:57But let's talk about him trying to find something wrong uh with the development and building that the Fed president was doing in order to increase the possibility of the work that has to be done from the Fed. He is now asking us for $1 billion for the West Wing. Is it the west east wing? East wing that he is tearing down. He lied. He said that it was going to be donations that was going to build it. He wants a big beautiful ballroom.
▶ 1:17:28He wants us now after not coming to us asking or even talking about it. He wants us to come up with a billion dollars because he thinks he's a king. He thinks he can dictate to us. I'm sick and tired of it. And for those members who vote a billion dollars for this president to tear up and rebuild the White House, I know that you're going to have to take a lot of criticism for that.
▶ 1:17:55And so the pre the Fed must be independent. We must open up what this president is doing to try and run the Fed. It's not only the interest rates. It's not only the mandates. It's everything. He has no respect for Congress. whatsoever. And so I bring up the billion dollars because you can't refuse. Uh what I'm saying is you can't say that it's wrong. Uh that I don't know what I'm talking about. I know what I'm talking about.
▶ 1:18:26You know what he's talking about. And so with that, I've utilized all of my time. I yield back my time. And you gentleoman yields back. The gentleoman from Texas and the gentleoman from Texas yields back.
▶ 1:18:38Time to Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:18:39Thank you very much. the gentleman who seeks recognition. Gentleman from Pennsylvania, you're recognized. The last word last word.
▶ 1:18:45You're recognized for five minutes, Mr.
▶ 1:18:47Mr. Chairman, I I I uh feel compelled just to uh say a couple of things regarding this amendment. First of all, yes, the Fed is independent. They're not independent from criticism, as you you pointed out many times. They're certainly not independent from remarks made by the uh president of the United States. And you know who they're they're not independent from? They're not independent from me or my constituents. They work the Fed works for the for the taxpayer.
▶ 1:19:14They're not independent from the American people. And when things occur, when we have a Fed chairman, who I have respect for, I I'll always state I have respect for, our current chairman, uh, who will no longer be chairman as of tomorrow, states will not admit that excessive spending and an assault on domestic energy has anything to do, and he'd never have that conversation with the then president, President Biden, uh, while, uh, inflation
▶ 1:19:45is running rampant at 9%. % uh and meanwhile ex extending QE to $9 trillion for the purpose of maintaining uh consumer demand and consumer um and keep our economy going.
▶ 1:20:03Okay, that was based upon the conditions uh um emanating from the policies of the president's um administration now and and not would he even admit in the in this during hearings that that that had anything to do with the inflation that was taking place. Uh would not consider a holistic view. Never had a conversation.
▶ 1:20:30And I asked, "Wouldn't it be better if we weren't spending at this level?" And I I I recall pretty well, he said, "Sure, I'd like some help, but on the same note, would would not admit to it." Uh stating how inflation was transitory. Come on. And then and then interest rates changing very well being lowered right right before the presidential election. Look, whether it was done intentionally or not was clearly you put it on paper, there was a bias there. uh and that is that is not independence.
▶ 1:21:00Okay, that is bias and and bias and independence are are are defined um completely different. So and and and on the Fed building itself, let's face it, please if if that was a project that President Trump had you all would be criticizing it to absolutely no end. and and we're talking about a big overrun. You know, I ran a business, okay?
▶ 1:21:28My my focus was not necessarily building out our our facilities, although that was that was just a necessary part of it. But if I had an overrun of a billion and a half dollars, I think somebody might say, "Do you know what you're doing?" You know, you you'd be you you're all your actions would be uh suspect. And and that that's where where that came in. A billion and a half dollars in excess on a renovation. So, and and have no accountability and and dismiss a DOJ inquiry.
▶ 1:21:58And by the way, that's all it was. So, so this is this is this is nonsense. The Fed is independent. And by the way, if there's a Fed chairman that that caves to criticism, well, we picked the wrong guy or the wrong woman. So, uh, and and regarding the security systems, those security systems will be installed after this current president is is even in office.
▶ 1:22:24They're they're being made for the safety of the president of the United States, perhaps this one for a short time, and many to follow. Uh, and and um we've had three assassination attempts on the president uh as well. So, I think there's there's a there's a rational outlook on this and then an irrational or deliberately irrational bias outlook on these this this subject matter and particularly on this amendment. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:22:54Gentleman yields back. Is there any further debate? Hearing none, the question now occurs on Miss Waters's amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 1:23:04All those opposed signify by saying no. No. in the pen chair. The nos have it. The nos have it. Amendment is not
▶ 1:23:13I request a record.
▶ 1:23:14The gentleoman requests a recorded vote. All those in favor record vote raise your hands. A sufficient number having raised their hand and recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three of the committee rules, further proceeding on the amendment are postponed. Are there further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a I'm sorry.
▶ 1:23:37You have a
▶ 1:23:38Yes, I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 1:23:39The gentleoman from Massachusetts has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause while it's distributed.
▶ 1:23:46Gentleman from Indiana.
▶ 1:23:49Gentleman from Indiana reserves a point of order.
▶ 1:23:56Okay, I'll be ready
▶ 1:24:02at the end. Not after each one. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They're not rolled. So, okay. Thank you.
▶ 1:24:53Thank you.
▶ 1:25:47I'm not going to need Yeah, I don't need it. I don't want to use it.
▶ 1:27:20The clerk will report the gentleoman from Massachusetts. Amendment,
▶ 1:27:24an amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR5396 offered by Miss Presley of Massachusetts designated as Presley076. The gentleoman from Massachusetts is now recognized to describe her amendment.
▶ 1:27:40Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, my amendment is straightforward. It's just one sentence long. It says something that, you know, it's not controversial. I think we we should all be able to agree upon. Nothing in this act, my amendment reads, may be construed to prevent the board of governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee from taking action to increase employment. Now, again, this should be an uncontroversial amendment.
▶ 1:28:07It is necessary to improve the strength of our economy and the financial well-being of our constituents. For decades, the Fed has studied the labor market and used its research to make fiscally sound decisions. There are nearly 10,000 documents on the Federal Reserve's website dealing with unemployment. The economic analysis coming from the Fed is valuable and relied on by Wall Street, state and local governments, international economists, and in fact, this very body.
▶ 1:28:35But this bill would destroy that infrastructure, stop the research, and weaken our financial system unless we make it clear that the Fed can continue this work. and my amendment would do just that. Now, I represent the Massachusetts 7th uh congressional district. That's a an institution that boasts many institutions of higher learning, elite institutions of higher learning.
▶ 1:29:00We have countless economic scholars and um I also have, you know, uh almost a dozen high schools in my district. And if you whether you were to talk to a high school student or an economic scholar at one of those uh higher ed institutions, if you were to ask any of them, should the government address the unemployment rate? Uh if that's something that we should be doing, the answer would be uh yeah.
▶ 1:29:27So, you know, everyone knows that full employment matters. It is essential for the health of our economy. But this bill is an attack on that infrastructure and is also an attack on our common sense. So I urge my colleagues to vote yes on my amendment and ensure the Fed can continue its work to lower unemployment. I yield back.
▶ 1:29:50The gentleoman yields back. Does the gentleman insist on his point of order? Gentleman withdraws his point of order. Who seeks recognition? Gentleman from Indiana, you seek uh
▶ 1:30:03Yes. Uh move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:30:05The gentleman's recognized for five minutes. Uh
▶ 1:30:08thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um nothing in this legislation forbids the Fed from taking action to increase employment. Um but it signals to the Fed that Congress wants the Fed's primary focus to be price stability. Financial stability and employment benefits follow price stability.
▶ 1:30:28This is because monetary policy is unable to influence maximum employment over the long run has been confirmed by Fed chairs nominated from presidents of both parties. So I would encourage my colleagues to oppose this amendment. And I'd like to just mentioned too that the new unemployment numbers have come out and it's pretty strong. President Trump is doing what it takes to be sure that there is full employment.
▶ 1:30:58It's the policies of this Congress, the big beautiful bill, Republicans, President Trump, even the Fed lowering interest rates has helped maybe a little slow in doing so to help the economy, but it's the the policies of this body are going to affect employment more than anything
▶ 1:31:19Would the gentleman yield? I'd be happy
▶ 1:31:22Does the gentleman personally support maximum employment?
▶ 1:31:26Does the gentleman think that regulatory policy and tax policy and policies at our states affect that level of maximum
▶ 1:31:34Do you think every president supports maximum employment?
▶ 1:31:38Most of them.
▶ 1:31:39Uh so there's no one here that's against maximum employment. The gentleman from Indiana, I think's been a private sector CEO and leader. He's been a member of this committee now twice. He knows that on both sides of the aisle, we are for maximum employment.
▶ 1:31:54The question here is the principal role of the central bank in that debate versus our states, our regul regulatory agencies, our congress, our fiscal policy and and and other public policies of the executive and the legislative branch. So I I thank the gentleman for making that point and uh the Fed has a lot of tools in the case of a financial crisis as we've witnessed many of us here on both sides of the aisle in the global pandemic.
▶ 1:32:24Uh and then many on both sides of the aisle who were here even during the global financial crisis. So we're not affecting the Fed's extraordinary powers uh to help uh in the case of that kind of of crisis. I I think you make a good point the gentleman and I echo the views and I yield back to you.
▶ 1:32:41Yeah. Well, thank you. I guess the reason I say most presidents because the last president, President Biden's open border policies is was a huge detriment to employment in this country. And so, and then you have inflation on top of that. Talk about businesses being uncertain and knowing what to do.
▶ 1:33:02Uh and then of course trying to figure out who to hire and making sure that we're not hiring illegals in this country uh because of the open border policy. It has made it extremely difficult. Now, I do think that because the economy is strong and that unemployment rates are at low levels because of the policies of Republicans and President Trump that uh this is the this is the right time to do this because we don't have an emergency.
▶ 1:33:32And Congress often acts when there's an emergency and then overreacts. And so, I appreciate the chairman's timeliness on this bill because employment is low. We need to focus on price stability, currency, and that's how we're going to help the American people dig out of the hole. I mean, you know, we talk about credit card debt around here a little bit.
▶ 1:33:56Too many Americans had to live on the credit card because the cost of everything went through the roof uh thanks to uh the uh the COVID response during the Biden administration. So again, thank you for being thoughtful and doing this at the right time and I'll yield back. Gentleman from Indiana yields back. Who seeks recognition on Miss Presley's amendment? Uh, Miss Batty from Ohio.
▶ 1:34:19Thank you. Move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:34:20You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:34:22Move to strike the last words. Wow. This this is really amazing. But let me first go on the record in saying I certainly uh support the amendment from Congresswoman uh Presley. Words matter. I say that every day to people in in business. Uh we have words that one of my colleagues said that, you know, we probably picked uh the wrong uh Federal um reserve chair. Well, we probably definitely picked the wrong president.
▶ 1:34:51Uh we just talked about former presidents. Uh my colleague just mentioned in relationship to this amendment, President uh Biden and his open borders and and what that did to employment. Well, well, let me just say with this president, let's start with tariffs, okay? And how that affect that business and employment.
▶ 1:35:15Let's talk about the number one thing that the American people are talking about is the lack of affordability to purchase a home. Let's talk about gas prices. So if we want to name one thing that we're going to try to blame President Biden for and then we go back to COVID in financial services committee, we stood united thanks to chairwoman Maxine Waters for making sure that people didn't lose their homes, making sure that college
▶ 1:35:45students were able to go to college. This same author of this amendment took a lead role in making sure that we could work with students. We could talk about the war on Iran and what happens with this president and prices. And did I mention food, the price of eggs, and I'm just telling you what the American people said.
▶ 1:36:08So when we talk about the independence of the Federal Reserve, it was your colleague that said, "Yes, they're independent, but they report to the people." Well, the people are telling you they're sick and tired of the prices going up and what it's doing.
▶ 1:36:23So when we talk about what this amendment says, it simply says that we don't want it to be construed to prevent the board of governors of the Federal Reserve system or the Federal Open Market Committee from taking actions to increase employment.
▶ 1:36:40If we go back and we look at uh the responsibility to promote full employment, it means that the feds must make it a priority to ensure that un to ensure unemployment is low. Okay. Now, do we all agree on that? Certainly, we agree on that because that's the rules of engagement for what full employment means, which you just said that you and others agree, including the chairman.
▶ 1:37:08But let me just tell you this since we want to talk about Democrats and Republicans. Under Democrat leadership, unemployment remained at a historic low below 4%. Now, do my colleagues want to tell me what it is now with this president with President Trump? It's the highest it's ever been at over 4.7%. There are 7.4 million people who are unemployed.
▶ 1:37:37How dare us come here and talk against Congresswoman Presley's amendment that tells us it should not keep us from taking action to increase employment. The American dream is what? To have a job, to be able to buy a house, to prepare for your children. And as my colleague just reminded me, it is on full life support. So, Mr.
▶ 1:38:03Chairman, uh, I understand what you're doing and asking him the questions about what he believes in and believes most presidents believe in. Words matter. If you believe in it, then you would be supporting this amendment. And I yield back unless the sponsor of the bill would need some more time and Okay, I yield back.
▶ 1:38:22Gentleman from gentleoman from Ohio yields back. Who seeks recognition on Miss Presley's amendment?
▶ 1:38:30If there's no
▶ 1:38:31Green from Texas.
▶ 1:38:32Uh, Mr. Green from Texas. You're
▶ 1:38:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would ask that I be allowed to strike the last
▶ 1:38:38You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:38:40Thank you. My apologies for being a bit late today and arriving. I have another committee assignment in Homeland Security and uh it was quite pressing today. Uh Mr.
▶ 1:38:53Chairman and friends, I think the the dual mandate as it exists is not only necessary but would create great havoc in the country if we uh if we tamper with it and change it such that we remove either of the two aspects because they complement each other. Uh stable price support is important.
▶ 1:39:23Uh when inflation is stable, businesses can plan ahead and invest leading to stability with job growth. Maximum employment is important. You have a balanced labor market. It prevents wage inflation that can occur from extreme labor shortages.
▶ 1:39:46And I think that what Miss Presley's doing is protecting the relationship between price stability and maximum employment. I support what she's doing, but I also want to thank the uh ranking member for making it possible for us to have these opportunities to express our concerns because this is this is something that um exceeds what I thought we would
▶ 1:40:17have to deal with to be very honest at this committee level. I just can't imagine eliminating or tampering with the notion of stable, you know, employment, maximum Uh I know that there are members who would eliminate the minimum wage if given an opportunity.
▶ 1:40:40Um I would hope that this would not become the genesis of something farreaching and I support Miss Presley and the ranking member and I yield back.
▶ 1:40:51Gentleman yields back. Who seeks recognition on Miss Presley's amendment? Ranking member. Thank you very much. I move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:41:00You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:41:02I want to thank Miss Presley uh for offering this amendment uh to ensure that this dangerous bill does not stop the Fed or FOMO uh from promoting full employment. Despite what you might hear the president claim, our job market is worsening.
▶ 1:41:20The latest jobs numbers show that 7.4 4 million people are unemployed and unemployment rates are even higher for black workers at 7.3% and Hispanic workers at 5%. In 2025, black women face the largest employment losses, especially for college graduates and workers in the public sector.
▶ 1:41:44Additionally, 5.2% of workers bear the brunt of multiple jobs just to make ends meet. All of this is what makes HR 5396 so reckless. Thankfully, Ms. Presley's amendment would ensure the Fed and FOMO continue to support the workers. So, I urge members to support this amendment and I yield back.
▶ 1:42:09Gentleoman yields back. Who seeks recognition on the on the Presley amendment? There no further debate. The question now occurs on the Presley amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 1:42:18I. All those opposed signify by saying no. No. The pen share the nos have it. The nos have it. The amendment is not
▶ 1:42:28A recorded vote has been requested. All those in favor of recorded vote raise your hand. Sufficient number having raised their hand. Recorded vote is so ordered pursuant to subsections in C5 of rule three of the committee rules. Further proceeding on this amendment are postponed. Are there further amendments to the nature of amendment and the nature of a substitute?
▶ 1:42:47Gentleoman from Massachusetts. The gentleoman has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause for it to be The gentleman from Indiana reserves a point of order on Presley amendment number two.
▶ 1:44:28Clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 1:44:30An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR5396 offered by Miss Presley of Massachusetts designated as Presley077.
▶ 1:44:39Without objection, the amendment's considered read. The gentleoman from Massachusetts, you're recognized for five minutes to describe your amendment.
▶ 1:44:48Thank you, Mr. Chair. My amendment would codify the practice of releasing unemployment data by the Department of Labor, and I do think it's essential that um this is a practice that is codified because uh under the Trump uh release of this uh data has been inconsistent. if he's just simply uh with the numbers.
▶ 1:45:11Um this should be easy for bipartisan approval since data collection and publication is really critical to our understanding our national economy. Some of my colleagues have argued that the Department of Labor and not the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Again, we don't even have a labor secretary right now. So, I could go on and on about uh the chaos uh in this administration.
▶ 1:45:34And this is just uh one such example, but some of my colleagues have argued that the Department of Labor and not the Federal Reserve Board of Governors should focus on employment. It's really critical just to note that the difference in these agencies. The labor department is run by a partisan political appointee in the executive branch. The Federal Reserve is an independent agency that should not be engaging in partisan decisionmaking. That's what so much of the debate has been about today.
▶ 1:46:03maintaining the independence of the Fed. So they may sound similar, but they are not the same. That is why it is important that the Fed continue its mandate. But for my Republican colleagues who disagree, this amendment is for you. This is the opportunity to have your votes match your rhetoric.
▶ 1:46:23My amendment would ensure that the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the Labor Department publicly shares unemployment data disagregated by race, ethnicity, gender, and geography. And let me just reiterate because I do think it it warrants uh bearing repeating that there is a crisis for the black worker.
▶ 1:46:48Unless you think that this is a harm that can be contained, it will come for everyone because black workers and black women have always beared the brunt and been the canaries in the coal mine. 70% of black women are the primary breadwinners in their households. And under this administration, they took a complete sledgehammer to the infrastructure of our federal government, which is a disservice to the people and the communities that um our dedicated public servants serve, but also disrupted the livelihoods.
▶ 1:47:1712% of the federal workforce were black women dominating those really essential spaces from HUD to Department of Education to Health and Human Services to Consumer Financial Protection Bureau which you all work actively to dismantle and undermine consumer protection.
▶ 1:47:40Anyway, I The point is um this amendment would ensure that the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Labor Department publicly shares unemployment data disagregated by race and ethnicity and gender and geography. It requires the information to be provided every first Friday of each month. Government officials, business economists, and the public alike all analyze this data to understand the labor market and economic situation in this nation.
▶ 1:48:07Again, there's a crisis for black women, black families, and black futures that is coming for everyone. Now, if Congress is serious about addressing unemployment, we need unemployment data because that which gets measured gets done. Now, I first introduced this bill because last October, Donald Trump did not publish the data. It's why it needs to be codified. That was the first time in the history of BLS that an administration, Republican or Democrat, skipped a month. Keep making history for all the wrong reasons.
▶ 1:48:35Previously, monthly data was published during federal government shutdowns, economic recessions, and a global pandemic. With Trump firing government officials when it doesn't when he doesn't like the data they publish, there is an urgent need for legislation to codify transparency of unemployment data. I believe in transparency and this bill will ensure no president can hide the true state of the economy from the people. Moreover, this amendment codifies the practice of disagregating the data.
▶ 1:49:04It's not enough to simply know how many people are unemployed. We need to know their background, their gender, their geography, and their industry in order to fully understand the picture here. So, let's look at the current unemployment crisis. While we have a 4.3% unemployment rate, it is not evenly distributed for all communities. It is disproportionately hurting black families, black workers. The rate is While for the white worker, it is 3.7%.
▶ 1:49:32This is a stark contrast, which is why I've been calling for a plan of action. It is a five alarm fire that cannot be My amendment would codify my BLS act to ensure transparency of unemployment data, and I urge my colleagues to vote
▶ 1:49:49Gentlewoman's time is expired. Does the gentleman insist on his point of order?
▶ 1:49:54Mr. Chairman, after reading the amendment, and as much as I'd like to engage in a conversation about it, I just insist on the point of order pursuant to clause seven of rule 16 of the House rules that this amendment is not gerine to the underlying bill. Sheriff Fines's amendment is not gerine as it relates to a subject matter different from the subject of our underlying text. Therefore, the point of order is sustained.
▶ 1:50:18Is there further debate on the amendment in nature of a substitute or amendment uh on the amendment on the nature in the nature of a substitute?
▶ 1:50:30Mr. Presley,
▶ 1:50:32uh the gentleoman from Massachusetts has an additional amendment at the desk. We'll pause while that's distributed.
▶ 1:50:42Mr. Chairman,
▶ 1:50:44uh gentlemen,
▶ 1:50:45I reserve a point of order. Gentleman from Indiana reserves a point of order on the Presley amendment.
▶ 1:51:31Thank you.
▶ 1:52:06Clerk will report the amendment, please.
▶ 1:52:08An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR5396 offered by Miss Presley of Massachusetts, designated as HR 539603.
▶ 1:52:18Without objection, the amendment is considered read and the gentleoman from Massachusetts recognized for five minutes to describe her amendment. Mr. Chair, my amendment is straightforward and uncomplicated. Uh I agree with my my good friend and colleague, Congresswoman Batty, that that words matter. Um certainly the titling of bills matter. So it would correct the title of this bill so that the people who elected us know exactly what we are voting on.
▶ 1:52:45Just like you had that fraudulent big beautiful bill which was really big and ugly, a big betrayal of a bill. Let's name these things accurately because given the data that I just shared, 4.3% unemployment rate, not evenly distributed for all communities, disproportionately hurting black women, black families, black workers, the rate is 7.3%. While for white workers, it's at 3.7%. Now, I don't want anyone's livelihood No one.
▶ 1:53:14But we have to acknowledge there's a disperate impact here. It's a stark contrast. It's a five alarm fire. I do wonder if those numbers were reversed. Were white people unemployed at twice the rate of black people? Would Republicans care more? But that's a question I know you're all not ready to answer. So, let's get to the titling of this bill. This bill is cleverly titled to deceive the public. I truly must give it to the rep Republicans because you all are adept and skilled at branding to make a bad thing sound like something good.
▶ 1:53:45We all know about the so-called one big beautiful bill which was nothing more than an ugly attack on working families and government services like SNAP and Medicaid. It gave large tax breaks to corporations. Let the record reflect. While taking money from actual people. It gave billions of dollars for ICE to arrest innocent people to kill citizens to terrorize our communities. That law is deeply unpopular and it is harming every person that calls this country home. But Republicans still call it the one big beautiful bill.
▶ 1:54:14Well, this legislation follows that pattern. Currently, it is titled the Price Stability Act, but it does nothing to help stabilize prices. Does this bill help the Fed control inflation? No. Does this bill get rid of Trump's tariffs? No. Does this bill confront the affordability crisis? No. This bill is only one sentence long. Republicans are directing the Federal Reserve to stop working towards maximum employment.
▶ 1:54:42It's a sad day for our economy where Republicans in Congress are against people having jobs. Again, the best way to support working families is to ensure that they keep working. This bill will force the Federal Reserve to ignore the unemployment rate, which has risen under Trump. The mass firings of government workers and the tariffs stopping businesses from hiring and the Iran war raising costs have created this economic slowdown. Since taking office, unemployment has increased.
▶ 1:55:13Economists refer to this moment as low hire. The Fed chair even just said last week, "There's effectively no new net job creation." Republicans, you want to close your eyes. You want to put your fingers in your ears. You want to ignore the problem. But we need to be honest with the American people and let them know the truth. This bill is not about price stability. It is about ignoring high unemployment.
▶ 1:55:38Therefore, my amendment would make a simple but necessary change to the title so everyone knows exactly what we're voting on. My amendment would correct the title to quote the ignore high unemployment act unquote. Let's be transparent and honest with the people who sent us here. I urge my colleagues to support this amendment.
▶ 1:56:03Gentleoman yields back. We're going to pause suspend for a moment so we can make sure that the gentleoman's text, accurate text is passed out. Uh, Miss Presley, they passed out a different amendment uh than you spoke on. So, we're correcting that by making sure everybody has your text. And thank you for your Thank you for your uh comments.
▶ 1:57:01All right. the uh the proper text that accompanies Miss Presley's remarks has now been distributed and I ask the gentleman from Indiana. Do you insist on your point of order?
▶ 1:57:13No, sir.
▶ 1:57:14The gentleman withdraws his point of order. Uh who seeks recognition on Miss Presley's amen. We'll call on the ranking member from California. You're recognized to strike the last word.
▶ 1:57:24Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:57:26Recognized for five minutes. I want to thank Miss Pley uh for offering this amendment. This amendment renames the title of this legislation to the ignore high unemployment act. By renaming this legislation, we can be transparent and clear about the intent and goal of this bill, which is to ignore the unemployment rate.
▶ 1:57:51This legislation does not provide solutions to address rising unemployment in this country. It does not propose workforce training or established recruiting efforts for the most vulnerable families today. It does not offer to members here today a meaningful plan to help people struggling with the affordability crisis the president has created.
▶ 1:58:17As a matter of fact, uh the president has said and it was recently reported, I think even today, uh that he does not have time uh to pay attention uh to uh Americans um concerns about the economy. That's not the exact quote, uh but it is essentially what he said and what he meant. He said he's dealing with the Iran war, so he doesn't have time uh to deal with this affordability crisis.
▶ 1:58:45Instead, HR5396 directs Fed to ignore unemployment and remuse removes the few tools the Fed has to help struggling Americans. I urge members to support this amendment.
▶ 1:59:00Gentleoman yields back who seeks recognition. Gentleman from Indiana
▶ 1:59:03move to strike the last word.
▶ 1:59:04You're recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:59:06Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to speak on this amendment. Um, which I I agree with the gentle lady that words do matter. Uh, but I want to point out a couple things because this this amendment says that this act may be cited as the ignore high unemployment act.
▶ 1:59:25And it's true that Congress does put titles on bills that uh are meant to explain to the general public what the bill pertains to. And uh one that I would point to that uh was said one thing but did another was the Affordable Care Act. Um Mr. Chairman, I'll tell you healthc care is not affordable today for the American people.
▶ 1:59:52In fact, it's one of the biggest complaints I hear about from my constituents back home that most of them have high deductibles, high premiums, and healthcare is not affordable. In fact, I'll give you an example. I went to get an MRI done a couple of weeks ago and I go in to pay my bill and the lady said it's $1,750. I'm about choked.
▶ 2:00:15And then she pointed out another pamphlet and said, "But if you use that program, which won't apply to your deductible, it's $750." Which is still okay. I can I can handle that. But the Affordable Care Act, that's what was sold to the American and it's not the Affordable Care Act. It's in in reality.
▶ 2:00:38So, I find it interesting and ironic that we're going to try to rename this bill the ignore high unemployment act. But if you look at unemployment rates and and I know the gentle lady mentioned 4.3%, somebody had said earlier that it was 4.7, but it is uh but uh you look at the numbers behind it uh the economy is outperforming the uh on the in this last month's report for April 2026
▶ 2:01:09there were 115,000 non-farm payroll jobs added exceeding the expectation of 65,000 almost double what was expected and a lot of those were in healthcare uh retail fail. The one that's not growing thankfully is government jobs. And so when government shrinks, private sector grows. So, uh, I just find it ironic that we're trying to rename this bill, uh, something that just doesn't do.
▶ 2:01:39Uh, we've, Congress failed once under the Affordable Care Act, and I'm sure there's probably others that were named, you know, in one particular way to try to sell the American people on something that uh, just wasn't accurate. So I
▶ 2:01:53the gentleman
▶ 2:01:54to the chair.
▶ 2:01:56Well, I appreciate the gentleman's points that that he's made about naming bills and both sides certainly have some uh some successes and failures on that front. But one thing that uh I heard in the ranking members comments on Miss Presley's amendment, she says, "We're not here today talking about things that would be like education benefits or other things that really uh help lower unemployment." And that's actually the whole point of this debate that it's not the job
▶ 2:02:26of the Federal Reserve to do that. The federalist job principal job should be making sure inflation doesn't decimate our famil family's uh net income, their savings, their investment opportunities, and take away their choice. That's the jurisdiction of the Fed. That's the jurisdiction of this committee. But I encourage my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. Support tax policies that increase real wage growth, like President Trump proposed in the big beautiful bill last year.
▶ 2:02:54support regulatory reforms that lower the cost to increase faster economic growth like members on both sides of the aisle in this committee have done routinely over the last year. Join me tomorrow at my press conference with Alma Adams as we talk about introducing the Ignite Act, which will benefit our H.B.CU across the country. There are places to go and we have committees for it, but it's not the job of the Fed. And therefore, I thank the gentleman for the time.
▶ 2:03:21I would urge a no vote on this amendment and yield back to the gentleman from Indiana.
▶ 2:03:25Will the gentleman yield?
▶ 2:03:26Yes, I'd yield to Mr. Style.
▶ 2:03:28I appreciate the gentleman's comment on the richness of this bill on the the trying to retitle. The the chairman's bill is perfectly named, the price stability act because it says the Fed should be focused in on price stability and of course there's a new name suggestion. Uh but I'm not surprised the other side of the aisle is quite clever on the double speak on naming bills. My colleague from Indiana references the Affordable Care Act, but we could think of Build Back Better, which did no such thing.
▶ 2:03:55We could think of the Inflation Reduction Act, which unleashed inflation. We could think of the For the People Act, which gutted election integrity. The list goes on. Mr. Chairman, our colleagues on the other side of the aisle are quite clever on double speak, on trying to deceive the American people on what's actually in a bill. I I commend your title for this bill because it's actually what it does.
▶ 2:04:20The price stability act of 2025 is about price stability uh and making sure that the Fed does that mandate. Uh I would urge my colleagues to oppose this and uh appreciate my colleague Mr. Setsman uh for pointing out the laundry list of double speak that we have uh in some of our Democrat bills uh unfortunately many of which have become law. Yield back.
▶ 2:04:43Uh thank you and thank you for the addition of those titles. Quite ironic. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Will yield
▶ 2:04:48Gentleman yields back. Who is there further debate on Miss Presley's amendment? Seeks time. If there's no further debate, there question now occurs on the Presley amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 2:05:01All those opposed signify by saying no. No chair. The nos have it. The nos have it and the amendment is not adopted. Gentlewoman. Gentleoman requests a recorded vote. Those in favor of recorded vote raise your hands. A sufficient number having raised their hand. A vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsections in C5 of rule three of the committee rules, further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Are there further amendments at your substitute?
▶ 2:05:26The gentleoman from Massachusetts has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause while it is distributed. Mr. Chairman,
▶ 2:05:47gentleman from Indiana.
▶ 2:05:48Uh, reserve a point of order.
▶ 2:05:50Gentleman reserves a point of order on this uh, Presley amendment. Clerk will report the amendment, please. An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR5396 offered by Miss Presley of Massachusetts. This is HR539603.
▶ 2:06:22Without objection, the amendment is considered read. And Miss Presley, you're recognized for five minutes to describe your amendment.
▶ 2:06:29Thank you, Mr. Chair, I hope this is something we can uh agree on in a bipartisan fashion. There actually used to be a um a bipartisan uh task force on artificial intelligence that I was appointed to along with um Congressman Lynch uh that has been uh dissolved. Um but I hope that we can agree on this. My amendment would require the Federal Reserve to study the impacts that artificial intelligence is having on employment.
▶ 2:06:58Now, when I'm in my community, when I'm in my district, and I'm sure this is the case for every member of Congress here, the impacts of AI are brought up. There are some who are excited, but many that are terrified. They're terrified about the way AI is transforming our lives. They're terrified about um its impact on the future of work.
▶ 2:07:20So at a time when the unemployment rate is rising, this amendment is critical to ensuring that no worker is left behind by the adoption of AI, technology advancement should supplement and enhance what workers do, not replace them. People need to be able to make a living and do work that is meaningful to them.
▶ 2:07:38But not just that, real workers play an important role in making sure technology is not maintaining a human connection to fields like human resources, health care, education, financial services, and much more. We need to be sure that as companies move forward with adoption of AI, there are no unintended consequences of pushing talented workers out of the workforce and having rippling effects on our economy.
▶ 2:08:08We can't talk about AI in a vacuum. We know that there is a digital divide. This is true for rural communities. It's true for urban communities. There are people across the country still lacking broadband access to complete their Remember during the pandemic uh how many families uh were going to fast food parking lots in order to access Wi-Fi
▶ 2:08:40uh for uh their children to be able to complete their homework. We owe the public quality data on the impacts AI has on the workforce and the economy. The public needs quality data.
▶ 2:08:54This common sense amendment makes sure that if this committee wants to move forward with AI advancement, the Federal Reserve must be cognizant of any impacts on employment and report these findings to Congress so that we can support again the people who sent us here, their families, communities, and economy. I hope my colleagues on the other side of the aisle will support this amendment to support our valuable workforce. We need the data.
▶ 2:09:24We need quality data on what the implications and impact could be here. Uh I yield back.
▶ 2:09:33Gentleoman from Massachusetts yields back. Who seeks recognition? Uh the gentleman from Indiana.
▶ 2:09:39Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:09:42Gentleman's recognized for five minutes. Yeah, I you know I find this amendment really fascinating uh because AI is an incredible tool and you know I I understand we're all getting used to how AI is affecting our economy, how what are the tools that it's useful for, but I I just don't see any need to require the Fed to do a study on employment impacts of AI.
▶ 2:10:06In fact, I'm surprised that one of the gentlemen said earlier on the other side of the aisle that, you know, truck driving jobs are being replaced. Uh we've got driverless cars. Uh I rode in one. And you know what? I was quite surprised at the technology and the ability that uh is implemented into those cars. And that's going to actually increase safety. It's going to increase it's going to maybe move jobs from one sector to another. But AI is going to be an incredible tool for us.
▶ 2:10:36And the Fed has already been studying AI. So there's already being studies done by the private sector and others and it's already showing that AI is not disastrous on unemployment. In fact, we're already seeing that in employment numbers, they keep going up. Um and that's with the wall being built, the border being secure. Uh you know, unemployment rates are lower because of President Trump's policies and Republicans policies.
▶ 2:11:02Um the research from the international center for law and economics found that there is so far little evidence on economy uhwide job loss or wage decline as a direct result of AI. So for a party that generally sees themselves as progressive, they're actually wanting to say no to new technology that is going to increase productivity and help our economy progress going forward.
▶ 2:11:31Um, one other thing I found interesting, in fact, they found any labor adjustment was due to a reallocation of tasks and AI produced productivity within firms. Now I would say this, I would almost support this amendment. um if it would include AI analysis of government of uh government fraud, wastes and abuse, inefficiencies, I think that's what we should be using AI for.
▶ 2:11:59So if that would be included in the amendment, I could probably almost support it. But at this time, I would oppose this amendment. I'll yield back.
▶ 2:12:06Gentleman yields back. Who seeks recognition? The ranking member, you seek recognition of the Presley
▶ 2:12:10Uh I move to start the last. recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 2:12:14At a time when every AI company CEO is warning uh about massive job displacement from AI, it is absurd to tell the Fed to ignore the plight of workers in this country. So, I thank Miss President for offering this amendment which strikes the bill and directs the Fed to study the impact that AI will have on employment in the United States.
▶ 2:12:40Recently, many have become alarmed at how the latest AI models would allow bad actors to hack our financial institutions and cause all kinds of unknown harm to consumers. Some companies said that AI has allowed them to lay off thousands of workers.
▶ 2:13:01Rather than sticking our heads in the sand, we should be directing our agencies to study the impact AI is going to have on the economy and ensure that monetary policy is being set accordingly. So I thank Mr. President for this thoughtful amendment and urge members to support the bill the amendment. Thank you. Y
▶ 2:13:24Gentlewoman yields back who seeks recognition on the Presley amendment. Gentle from Wisconsin. Are you seeking recognition? No, he's not. All right. Anybody seek recognition on the Presley If there's no further debate on the amendment, uh question now occurs on the Presley amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 2:13:49All those post say no. No. Share the nose have it. Nose have it. Amendment is not adopted. Gentleoman. Gentlewoman requests recorded vote. All those in favor recorded vote raise your hand. Sufficient number raised their hand. Recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three, the committee rules further proceedings amendment are postponed. Are there further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute?
▶ 2:14:15Seeing no further amendments, without objection, the previous question on the substitute is ordered and recorded votes on the pending amendments have been postponed. Once these votes are taken, the committee will immediately vote on the adoption amendment in the nature of substitute and then we will consider the question to report the measure. We'll now move to the next bill. Pursuant to notice, I call up HR 2978 guarding unprotected aging retirees from deception act, the guard act which was introduced by representative nun.
▶ 2:14:45Clerk will report the bill which was distributed in advance. HR 2978 to permit state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies that receive eligible federal grant funds to use such funds for investigating elder financial fraud, pig butchering, and general financial fraud, and to clarify that federal law enforcement agencies may assist state.
▶ 2:15:07Without objection, the first reading is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill is considered read and open to amendment at any point. Representative Nun has an amendment in the nature of a substitute, copies of which were distribut, excuse me, distributed in advance. The clerk will report that
▶ 2:15:22An amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR 2978, offered by Mr. Nun of Iowa, designated as none 145.
▶ 2:15:29Without objection, the amendment's considered read. It will serve as the base text for purposes of amendment. The gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Nun, you're now recognized for five minutes to describe your amendment. Well, I want to thank the chairman uh for this markup on my bill to fight fraud, as well as my friend across the aisle, Representative Godheimer, for his partnership in working on this. Stopping scams and fraud is not a Democrat or Republican issue. This is an American issue and one that no party can sit on the sidelines for.
▶ 2:15:58As many of you know, there is probably someone in fact you've spoken to. Whether it be a neighbor, a parent, a friend, someone at church who has said they've gotten a call from a company claiming that they owe a bill or a text from a toll station saying that they owe money or a scare or romance scheme that's impacted a loved one. And it pains me that fraud and scams dominate many of my listening sessions just across Iowa because the problem candidly is only getting worse.
▶ 2:16:26When I first introduced this bill a year ago, Mr. Chairman, the average Iowa senior was losing $9,000 per case reported. Jump forward to today, that number is now 44,000. That is a five times increase in just the last 12 months due to scam and fraud related theft. Now, in my home state of Iowa, we lost nearly hundred million dollars in 2025. But nationally, that's added up to over $200 billion.
▶ 2:16:57And this flows directly to criminal organizations, foreign governments, and agents hostile to the United States. Roughly $200 billion in loss is equivalent to more than 50 billion that the entire US Army's budget is. That is the amount of loss faced by these types of scams. And behind every dollar, there's a real person. It's an Ian. It's a single mom. It's a farmer.
▶ 2:17:23It's a 68-year-old uh veteran who lost over $100,000 to a pig butchering scam. But when he called his local police office to ask for help, they were powerless in not having the tools to be able to execute and helping him solve it. This is not a failure of common sense, Mr. Chair. It is a sophisticated international criminal and foreign intelligence operation and we do not have the laws to keep up and prevent it.
▶ 2:17:48Just this last October, the Department of Justice seized a $15 billion Bitcoin operation from the Chinese Communist Party tied Cambodia based criminal syndicate. It was the largest forfeite action in DOJ's history. The tools do exist. We can stop this.
▶ 2:18:05So, let's take those best practices currently held by our federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies and help disseminate them down to our state and local officers so that local departments, police stations, sheriff's deputies have the ability to take that first call and take real action. That's why I'm leading the Guard Act. It puts advanced technology and training in the hands of our state and local law enforcement.
▶ 2:18:28The Guard Act came directly from good ideas shared with me by local Iowa law enforcement officers at a round table I hosted in De Moine and it stated that the tools available to both Treasury and our financial institutions on the private sector can also be used by our local officers. They told us what they needed and we working with Treasury told us that it was possible and so we built this bill from there. The Guard Act authorizes existing federal grants.
▶ 2:18:54This is not new spending, but to invest in investigators, train officers, acquire blockchain tracing tools, and it lets federal agents share those tools and expertise with our local law enforcements to standardize definitions for these specialized offenses so cases can be attached with the full weight of our federal resources as well as married to our local expertise. The coalition of folks who have come on board to help us fight scams is broad and deep.
▶ 2:19:24with the support of everyone from the Iowa State Police Association, the Financial Technology Association, the Digital Chamber, the National Police Association, the Crypto Council for Innovation, the American Securities Association, NAK, NAF, the US Chamber of Commerce, Iowa Bankers Association, Google T. I could go on with this all day, Mr. Chair, which is a good news story.
▶ 2:19:43But the reality is here, I'd like to submit for the record our letters of support, particularly from groups like the Consumer Banking Association, ARP, and our National Sheriff's Association, as well as Capital One that have all been leaders in this fight. I also want to thank our champions in the Senate because it's not enough to just do it in the House alone. We have a companion capability here with Senator Katie Britt of Alabama as well as Gillibrand and Scott on Senate Banking. We can no longer wait to act.
▶ 2:20:09This is clearly a national security crisis and it's one that is hitting homes across our country most directly. With this legislation, we have the opportunity to fight back. I am proud this is not only a bipartisan effort, but this is a real effort to support financial security for Americans and stop national security threats abroad. With that, I would urge a yes on the Guard Act and thank both the chair and our partners on this.
▶ 2:20:32I yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? Uh, Miss Waters, who's the ranking member of the full committee, is recognized for five minutes.
▶ 2:20:42Thank you very much. I move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:20:46The Guard Act would clarify that state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies may use certain federal grants to investigate senior financial fraud, uh, scams, and general financial fraud.
▶ 2:21:03While I'm supportive of this bill, if my Republicans are serious about addressing fraud and scams, they would start by uh reversing the Trump administration's numerous actions to weaken the rule of law. Under the Trump administration, bank examiners, financial crime investigators, and DOJ prosecutors have all been fired or laid off.
▶ 2:21:30Inspector generals who investigate corruption inside the government have also been fired, allowing illegal and unethical behavior to go unchecked. Additionally, the primary agency that was protecting seniors, service members, and the public against general financial fraud was the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the CFBB. Yet, the Trump administration entirely gutted the agency.
▶ 2:22:00Just last month, committee Republicans voted for a bill that would repeal reporting requirements under the Corporate Transparency Act, allowing bad actors to better hide their schemes. US registered shell companies are often used to facilitate romance schemes, uh, scams, and other fraud.
▶ 2:22:24The repeal of CTA directly conflicts with the purposes of this bill to protect older Americans and others from fraud and scams. Last year, during the discussion of the Clarity Bill, a cryptocurrency market structure bill, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle flat out refused to take any democratic le amendments to protect consumers.
▶ 2:22:50I want to emphasize that they specifically rejected amendments related to elder fraud. If Republicans cared so much about the frauds and scams listed in the bill, they would reinstate funding to the CFPB and support the corporate transparency act. This bill clarifies that state and local law enforcement can already do under what they can do under the law. So, while Democrats support the bill, let's be clear.
▶ 2:23:21Um, let's be clear about that and thank you. And, uh, before I yield back the time, uh, you were not here earlier, I don't think, uh, when, uh, the, uh, chair of the committee was here, when we had a chance to talk about uh, something with the Fed in terms of trying to uh, reorganize the FRED or get rid of a mandate, etc.
▶ 2:23:44And I'd just like to point out uh what I thought was a kind of hypocrisy uh in that given some of the things the president had done to the Fed and his attempt to take over the Fed and his attempt to fire Chairman Powell and his now attempt to uh fire Lisa.
▶ 2:24:02So, let me just say that what I'm trying to point out here is that while you talk about the locals being able to do something about fraud for seniors, etc., when the Republicans had the opportunity to do that, when we were dealing with cryptocurrency where we think there's going to be a lot of problems, of your side of the aisle uh did not uh agree with that.
▶ 2:24:29And so if we're going to talk about fraud, uh we better understand that not only uh should we be paying attention to cryptocurrency, but the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which many of us worked very hard, I was on the conference committee on that to deal with fraud and to uh deal with schemes and all kinds of things.
▶ 2:24:51We're going to support the bill uh obviously, but maybe there will be another opportunity where Republicans can show if they really care about these issues that they will help us to do something about it. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 2:25:04The gentle lady yields. Um is there further debate on the ANS? I now recognize myself for five minutes. I want to thank the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Nun, for authoring this important legislation. The committee's made investigating fraud a priority uh both across subcommittees and across Congress. Mr. Nun's bill recognized the gravity of the problem that scams represent for a growing number of Americans. And his bill takes several important steps.
▶ 2:25:29First, it allows state, local, and tribal law enforcement to utilize existing federal grant programs to combat fraud from unlawful credit card use to romance scams to elder fraud, including through DOJ training and technical assistance programs and the cops technology and equipment program. The GAR also helps understand how effective or how deficient our federal agencies are in stemming the tide.
▶ 2:25:55We see that the fraud and scams are growing and a lot of times state and local government uh are left with few interfaces with our federal government until the scope of it is identified as very large. Uh but collectively on the back end uh there might be one small case in Iowa and another small case in Ohio and another small case in California and that structures up to a really big transnational criminal organization as Mr. Nun referenced. This bill will help identify that.
▶ 2:26:25The bill requires Treasury Secretary to work across departments of justice and homeland security as well as our banking regulators to pinpoint what the government is doing uh and evaluate the impact its efforts are having to prevent to protect Americans from scammers. The Guard Act will also require the Treasury to rigorous rigorously assess bank secrecy act reports to better understand the state of fraud in America.
▶ 2:26:49Benson must leverage these reports to gain insight into the mechanisms fraudsters are using to obtain and launder funds uh for their crimes. Uh it provides flexibility. The general lady from California talked about the importance of countering crypto. Some of our state and local governments haven't built out the infrastructure to stay current on modern techniques like blockchain. And the traceability there when you put something on a permanent immutable ledger is amazing. but they don't necessarily have all the tools.
▶ 2:27:18The federal government has the tools. Finen's using them and this gives them the funds and the flexibility to be able to implement them at the state and local level. Mr. Nun's been a leader on leader on this critical issue. I'm pleased to see his legislation moving forward today. I urge all of our colleagues to support it and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the ANS? Hearing none, we will move to amendments. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment to the ANS? Uh, for what purpose does a gentle lady seek recognition? Uh,
▶ 2:27:47I have an amendment at the
▶ 2:27:49We will pause while her amendment is
▶ 2:27:54Reserve a point of order.
▶ 2:27:59What purpose does the gentleman from Iowa seek recognition?
▶ 2:28:02Seek the opportunity to reserve a point of order.
▶ 2:28:05Point of order is reserved. clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 2:28:28An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR 2978 offered by Miss Waters of California designated as guard amend.
▶ 2:28:37Without objection, the amendment is considered read. The gentle lady from California is recognized on her
▶ 2:28:42Uh, thank you very much. Um, I alluded to cryptocurrency and some other things. Let me be more specific in this amendment. My amendment would add me a coin related scams to the list of scams and frauds that the guard act specifies. This topic also feels appropriate to bring up as our colleagues on the Senate side mark up their version of cryptocurrency market structure.
▶ 2:29:11The day before his inauguration, President Trump launched his meme coin. Since then, President Trump has earned $360 million. Insiders behind the meme coin also earned nearly 600 million in trading fees. However, hundreds of thousands of retail investors have lost 4.3 billion. Let me say that again.
▶ 2:29:41of thousands of retail investors have lost 4.3 billion buying the Trump memecoin. This is the exact kind of activity, specifically what's called a quote rugpull that my Republican colleagues should try to prevent with this bill. I completely agree with my Republican colleagues. We do need to protect Americans from these types of scams.
▶ 2:30:08What's also concerning mean coins is that Trump's federal regulators have abdicated their responsibility to protect investors. The Securities and Exchange Commission under Trump said that meme coins are not securities, meaning that they now fall into a gray zone without a federal regulator.
▶ 2:30:31That is why it is even more important for state, local, and tribal law enforcement to monitor and hold Mim Coins fosters accountable. And so um I think this is very important.
▶ 2:30:47the bill as it is constructed is important, but this uh what I'm advocating in this amendment would make it even more important given that I've laid out uh the loss uh that those who have been purchasing mean combs from the president. So I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 2:31:08Gentle lady yields back. Does the gentleman from Iowa insist on his point of order?
▶ 2:31:12I do. I move to strike the last word, Mr. Chairman. withdraw his point of order.
▶ 2:31:20Gentleman does withdraw his point of order. Is there further debate on the
▶ 2:31:24Uh, what purposes? Gentleman seek
▶ 2:31:29Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:31:32Gentleman is recognized.
▶ 2:31:33I want to thank the ranking member for her engagement and the um, you know, bipartisan conversation that we're having on the threat of scams and fraud. Uh, but I would oppose the gentleman gentlewoman's amendment. Here's why. This amendment already seeks to single out scams related to all types of threats, not meme coins specifically. And if we're going to uh narrow the scope of what these funds could be used for, I think we put ourselves at a disservice here.
▶ 2:32:03Fraud of this nature is already covered by the underlying legislation and spec specifying memecoins would simply create I believe confusion when implementing this bill as the executive branch has already um highlighted here whether certain forms of general financial fraud were not intended by Congress since we did not specifically call them out as well. We know this much is true that as this continues to be an evolving threat specifying each one limits us from emerging threats that could potentially arise.
▶ 2:32:32Here's what I know we agree on. We know, as we just highlighted, that the scale and the threat that local police are up against is becoming overwhelming. According to the FBI's 2024 Internet Crime Report, Americans aged 60 and older lost 61 billion dollars. This is elder loss. It's up nearly 40%. Something that you and I both agree with here is how we can get after it. We also recognize, as you noted, that Americans when they face these threats, they're not picking up the phone to call CFPB.
▶ 2:33:02They're picking up the phone to call local law enforcement or the fraud watch helpline that AP puts together. These are real tools that we want to get resource against a broad array of scam and fraud threats existing today, including things like memecoins, but also what tomorrow might bring. Therefore, I think we can also agree on what action needs to be taken.
▶ 2:33:26Moving forward with this Guard Act helps our frontline defenders be able to have the resourcing, the training, the capabilities, and the skill sets we know work at a local level. We want broad coverage of fraud under this legislation. We all want clarity so our law enforcement agencies can go after scammers comprehensively. That is what this bill really achieves. And I would ask the ranking member that her concern, valid as it may be, is already included under existing legislation and is improved upon by this act.
▶ 2:33:55For these reasons, I respectfully would ask my members to oppose scoping this narrowly and ask that they move the bill forward without the amendment. I yield back the remainder of my time.
▶ 2:34:06Gentleman yields back. I recognize myself to strike the last word. I do strike the last word. U I think Mr. none out laid out a a good rebuttal to the gentle lady's amendment. Uh I would just add that the clarity act that the gentle lady did reference the house incentive pass that even putting a definition around what is a mean coin uh needs done at the federal level. So uh I've tried to counter pump and dump scams uh in crypto since 2017. It's been a long road.
▶ 2:34:36I'm glad to see the Senate Banking Committee marking up the Clarity Act this week and I hope it does just that. It provides the clarity we need and you let the federal regulators have more power to deal with a federal problem. I think Mr. Nun stated it well. When people are the victims of scams, they call law enforcement and his bill, the Guard Act, uh that this seeks to amend is rightly focused on equi equipping them with the flexibility to deal with that.
▶ 2:35:03So, uh I I oppose this amendment, encourage our colleagues to oppose it, and uh I yield back. Is there further debate on the amendment? Uh here hearing no further debate. Uh all those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying
▶ 2:35:18All those opposed by shall signify by saying no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it.
▶ 2:35:24Recorded vote requested.
▶ 2:35:26Um the nos uh have it. Amendments not Recorded vote has been requested. Are there further amendments? So I got to say votes are rolled to there. Recorded vote is requested. All those uh in favor of a recorded vote raise your hand. Sufficient number having raised their hands. A recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three, the committee rules. Further proceedings on the amendment are postponed.
▶ 2:35:53Are there further amendments uh to the amendment in the nature of substitute?
▶ 2:36:01Nothing on seeing no further amendments without objection. The previous question on the substitute is ordered and the recorded votes on the preceding amendments have been postponed. Once those votes are taken, the committee will immediately vote on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute and then we'll consider the question to report the measure. We will now move on to the next bill.
▶ 2:36:31Pursuant to notice, I call up HR 2152, the AI practices, logistics, actions, and necessities AI plan, uh, which was introduced by Representative Nun. The clerk will report the bill, which was distributed in advance. HR 2152 to require a strategy to to defend against the economic and national security risks posed by the use of artificial intelligence in the commission of financial crimes, including fraud and the dissemination of misinformation for other purposes.
▶ 2:37:00Without objection, the first reading is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill is considered read and open to amendment. At any point, Representative Nun has an amendment in the nature of a substitute, copies of which have been distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 2:37:12An amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR 21.
▶ 2:37:15Without objection, the amendment is considered read and will serve as a base text for the purposes of the amendment. Uh the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Nun, is recognized for five minutes.
▶ 2:37:24Well, thank you, Mr. chair and thank you for your work on national security particularly when it comes to this legislation artificial intelligence and how we at the national level need to have both a strategy and an approach. I want to thank my friend uh the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee, Mr. Heimmes, for helping me lead this bill and its great impact on an emerging technology that will quickly impact all of our lives. As we know this, artificial intelligence is already transforming how businesses grow, how markets move, and how information is spread.
▶ 2:37:54And analysts project that AI will generate over 15 trillion, that's T with a capital T, in a new global wealth over the next decade. This is exciting. At the same time, American companies lead in the field today. But foreign adversaries are racing to write the rules of this new age, and some are already turning that very technology against us.
▶ 2:38:15Five years ago, an adversary who wanted to drain an American's retirement account needed a phone bank, a convincing script, and hours of deception campaigns. Today, that same adversary clones the voice of a victim's own grandchild and uses it to drain their account by threatening that same artificial avatar.
▶ 2:38:37A single overseas operator now spins up to thousands of synthetic identities from names that include social security numbers to employment histories to open fraudulent accounts at American banks faster than our institutions can flag them. And these are stories that should keep all of us up at night. But the good news is the same American ingenuity that built this technology is helping us defend against its misuse. The challenge is on the coordination piece.
▶ 2:39:06Treasury sees the financial perspective. Department of Homeland Security sees the defense perspective. Commerce sees the technology perspective. And the federal government at large has a hard time knowing who's in control. The SEC, the Federal Reserve, NIST, the Attorney General, and the US Trade Representative each hold a different piece of the puzzle, and Congress has never asked them to put it together in one page or one comprehensive playbook.
▶ 2:39:31What the AI plan act does is it bring it brings regulators to the same table to keep our markets safe and our data protected. It charts a strategic roadmap for the United States and leads in artificial intelligence development by defending our financial systems and letting our private partners be part of the success story here. It does five things that I think are key. First and foremost, combating financial crimes and fraud.
▶ 2:39:53It directs the Department of Treasury, Homeland Security, and the Department of Commerce to develop a strategy to combat artificial intelligence-driven fraud and the use of AI in financial crimes such as voice cloning and deep fakes that we just highlighted. Two, it protects national security.
▶ 2:40:08It focuses on defending against artificial intelligence generated misinformation from foreign intelligence threats and their efforts to manipulate US markets or spread propaganda that hurt all of Three, it develops a new security framework implementing new and cross-jurisdictional techniques to defend against cyber threats and artificial intelligence powered attacks.
▶ 2:40:31Four, it promotes responsible innovation encouraging the development of American AI innovation while establishing necessary guard rails. And five, it brings a whole of nation approach in a strategic vision for how AI can be both helpful but that we can counteract those bad actors who would come against our institutions. Bringing both our private sector and our public sector to bear in addressing this threat. We are not slowing down in AI here in the United States.
▶ 2:41:00We are making sure our local businesses in places like my home state of Iowa and across this country can grow confident in an AI powered economy that grows both our GDP as well as our workforce and that when Americans use AI to build our adversaries cannot use that same IIA to break us. I would urge a yes vote on the AI plan act and I thank the bipartisan leaders who've helped move this forward. With that, Mr. Chair, I yield my time.
▶ 2:41:28Gentleman yields back. Is there further
▶ 2:41:32I move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:41:34The gentle lady from California uh moves to strike the last word. Recognized.
▶ 2:41:38Thank you very much. This bill represents a critical first step in addressing the risk posed by AI. These efforts are especially important as we respond to new and advanced cyber security models like mythos which in the hands of bad actors and foreign adversaries pose a major threat to the national security of our country and the stability of our financial system.
▶ 2:42:07This requires agencies to gather information and submit recommendations on how to defend against risk like misinformation, fraud, and financial crime. The agencies must consider challenges arising from deep fakes, voice cloning, foreign election interference, potential market disruptions, and more.
▶ 2:42:32We're already witnessing the devastating impact these technologies have on families across the country when they're used by bad actors. For example, through voice cloning uh impersonate though they do impersonate a victim's loved ones to try to demand money from them. For example, in 2025, Americans lost more than 5 million to AI voice cloning scams.
▶ 2:43:01While this legislation is necessary to better allow agencies to build our defenses ahead of the weaponization of advanced AI models, this measured and cautious approach is at odds with the goals of another Republican bill proposed today, the Unleashing AI Act.
▶ 2:43:22The Unleashing AI Act lifts a wide range of regulatory requirements without consideration for many of the risks to Americans that are considered in this bill, the AI Plan Act. And so I would encourage members to take these diverging approaches into account and support the best course of action for protecting children and families across the country. Thank you, and I yield back. Thank the gentle lady.
▶ 2:43:52Is there further debate on the ANS?
▶ 2:43:56Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to strike the last word. Gentleman's
▶ 2:44:00Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh, thank you to the ranking member, and I particularly thank my friend from Iowa, Mr. Nun, for introducing this bill. Um, as Mr. Nun said, and as the ranking member said, the bill recognizes a simple reality. AI is lowering the barrier to entry for sophisticated fraud operations. What once required an organized criminal network can increasingly be done by a single actor with commercially available tools. Government coordination must evolve accordingly. AI threats move across sectors faster than government jurisdictions do.
▶ 2:44:28Fraud, cyber crime, market manipulation, and foreign influence campaigns no longer fit neatly inside one agency's lane. Right now, federal agencies are often responding to AI enabled threats independently. The AI Plan Act creates a shared operating picture so we can identify patterns earlier and respond faster. Recent reporting and oversight done by various committees underscores how quickly these risks are accelerating.
▶ 2:44:53The mythos model by Anthropic reportedly identified several hundred thousands of software vulnerabilities across major US banking systems with some institutions forced to patch weaknesses in days rather than weeks because AI enabled cyber threats are now operating at machine speed. The AI plan act sends a message that the US intends to lead not only in developing advanced AI systems but also in building the safeguards that allow those systems to be deployed responsibly and at scale.
▶ 2:45:23This is ultimately a preparedness bill. We cannot be caught sleepwalking into the next next financial crisis. The cost of planning and coordination today is far lower than the cost of responding to a major AI enabled financial calamity tomorrow. The bill reinforces public private partnership. Many of the most important signals, threat indicators, and defensive innovations come from the private sector, and this framework helps ensure government can engage constructively with industry experts.
▶ 2:45:48Finally, this legislation reflects a bipartisan understanding that technological leadership and national security are no longer separate conversations. In the AI era, they are one and the same. I'm proud to co-lead in this bipartisan bill, and I urge my colleagues to support it. I'd like to again to thank thank the chair and the ranking member for considering the bill today, and I yield back. Uh the gentleman yields backs to further debate on the ANS. I now recognize myself for five minutes.
▶ 2:46:13As I've said before, AI technology has enormous potential to make Americans lives easier in our financial system safer, stronger, and more efficient. But the same technology can also be weaponized, enabling more sophisticated financial crime that threatens consumers, investors, and the stability of our financial system. From deep fake impersonation schemes to AI generated financial fraud, bad actors, including those operating abroad, are gaining access to increasingly powerful tools. The United States cannot afford to fall behind.
▶ 2:46:43We need a coordinated national strategy to detect, prevent, and respond to AI enabled financial crime. That's why I'm pleased to support the AI Plan Act. This bipartisan legislation led by Representative Zach Nun and Jim Heimmes uh directs the Department of Treasury, Homeland Security, and Commerce to examine the evolving threat landscape and develop a comprehensive strategy to combat AIdriven financial crimes.
▶ 2:47:09Uh just as importantly, the bill draws on the expertise of federal agencies to provide Congress with actionable recommendations and establish best practices that industry can implement immediately to better protect consumers and our financial system. This is a common sense, straightforwardlooking approach uh to ensuring that we harness the benefits of AI while defending against risks. I urge all of our colleagues to support it and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the ANS?
▶ 2:47:38Hearing none, we will move to amendments. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment to the ANS?
▶ 2:47:45I have an amendment at the desk. General lady has an amendment at the desk. We will pause while the amendment is distributed. When a voter has been reserved, clerk will report.
▶ 2:48:07Just hold for a second.
▶ 2:48:10Continue to distribute.
▶ 2:48:12Thank you.
▶ 2:48:17Clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 2:48:20An amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR 2152 offered by Miss Waters of California designated as HR 215202. Without objection, the amendment is considered read. The gentle lady from California, Miss Waters, is recognized for her amendment.
▶ 2:48:35Thank you very much. As written, this legislation directs agencies to assess and recommend a defensive strategy against national and economic security risk posed by AI. My amendment would simply expand this defensive strategy uh to also consider consumer protection risks and include the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in the agencies evaluating these changes.
▶ 2:49:06As we all know, the CFPB is the only federal agency solely dedicated to protecting consumers from scams, uh, financial fraud, and unfair, deceptive, and abusive products and practices in financial services marketplace.
▶ 2:49:25Some of the major challenges this bill tries to tackle are deep fakes, boss cloning, number spoofing, and other kinds of uh uh kinds of digital fraud and scams. Addressing these challenges is at the center of the CFBB's mission.
▶ 2:49:43Without a dedicated consumer financial agency to contribute to the goals of this bill, this legislation may miss out on necessary solutions for the greatest problems facing America today. So I urge members to support this amendment and I uh yield back.
▶ 2:50:03Uh does the gentleman insist on his point of order?
▶ 2:50:07Uh point of order is withdrawn. Is there further debate on the amendment? uh for what purp you Mr. Chair I I think as we've all highlighted here artificial intelligence has been used for decades in several forms from machine learning and algorithms both in the government and the private sector side. All technology has risks but the committee's work on encouraging AI innovation and adoption has always focused on ensuring proper guard rails and safeguards are implemented alongside new technology.
▶ 2:50:36What we don't want is a federal government mandate in this innovation space. The AI the AI plan act that we're discussing here today recognizes that the guard rails are necessary and directs agencies to assess limitations capabilities tradeoffs of AI's use in combating financial crime. The amendment before us therefore I believe is redundant.
▶ 2:50:57Uh as part of the bill, the report must also evaluate specific threats include deep fakes, voice cloning, synthetic identities, false flags, general digital fraud, and scams to do both public and private entities. Importantly, the bill also requires recommendations for legislative action as well as best practices on both our private sector as well as our public sector side. I believe these entities can work together to mitigate and respond to these emerging threats, not layer another level of bureaucratic requirement on top of them.
▶ 2:51:27And for those reasons, while I respect and agree with the ranking members intent to go after AI threats, let's do it in a clear way that provides the best possible guidance. And so therefore, I would urge opposition to this amendment. Mr. Chair, I yield my time.
▶ 2:51:41Gentlemen yields. Uh, is there further debate on the amendment? No further debate. The question now occurs on the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment all
▶ 2:51:52all those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 2:51:56All those opposed signify by saying no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it. The nos have it and the amendment is
▶ 2:52:03recorded vote is gentle lady has requested a recorded vote. Um recorded vote is requested. All those in favor of a recorded vote raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand. A recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three, the committee rules further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of substitute? Mr. Foster.
▶ 2:52:25Yes, I have an amendment at the desk. gentleman has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause while the amendment is distributed. For what purpose does uh Mr. Nun seek recognition? Point of order. Mr. Style reserves a point of order. Point of order is
▶ 2:53:12The clerk will report the amendment. an amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR 2152 offered by Mr. Foster of Illinois designated without
▶ 2:53:21objection the amendment is um the gentleman from Illinois Mr. Foster is recognized for his amendment
▶ 2:53:29thank you Mr. Chairman. Um, I support the underlying bill and I believe this is a friendly amendment. My amendment would add artificial intelligencedriven market response to the risk of risk to be examined by regulators as they develop their strategy to respond to misinformation, fraud, financial crime perpetrated with artificial intelligence. By many accounts, the financial system is about to be transformed by agentic AI. Many business transactions will occur at the agentto agent level.
▶ 2:53:56Consumerfacing operations will no longer be facing a customer but a customer's AI agent. This change will be generally positive. Personal AI agents will be able to evaluate more options, investigate products more deeply, and bargain more effectively than their human principles uh that they work for could. This should result in a more efficient financial services marketplace.
▶ 2:54:19Consumer protections may also be simplified since there will be fewer unsophisticated consumers to take advantage of and agenic interactions can be logged under well-defined privacy regimes. However, there are risks including AIdriven flash crashes and AIdriven bank runs. During the 2023 regional banking crisis, Silicon Valley Bank saw outflows of more than $40 billion in less than 48 hours, driven mainly by the speed of internet gossip among a closelyknit number of depositors.
▶ 2:54:48Uh these rumors, many of which turned out to have merit, spread across financial markets, causing depositors to flee Silicon Valley Bank and then the contagion spread to other banks who on the surface seemingly presented a similar profile. Artificial intelligence will supercharge this kind of behavior, particularly as more consumers uh and businesses start using AI agents to help manage their finances. As these technologies develop, regulators must be ready for bank runs that could take place not in hours or days, but in minutes.
▶ 2:55:18Hurting behavior driven by AI models justified by facts or not, will also be a major concern as consumers order their agents to flee any uncertainty or simply to pursue higher returns. Regulators have tools to calm market panic that occurs on a human time scale, as they did by guaranteeing the deposits of Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Banks. although they and and through the roll out of the uh bank term funding program.
▶ 2:55:45Um however, it remains to be seen whether AI models and agents will respond similarly to similar regulatory signals or whether they will uh just simply seek a first mover advantage and rapidly pull out of banks and financial products in times of stress. In the banking system, the only entity with the power to stop a run on a significant sized bank is the Federal Reserve.
▶ 2:56:06Banks must be ready to provide the collateral and as access the discount window at a moment's notice and regulators will have to have the information they need and and the access they need to determine whether a bank should be saved and can be saved. Financial markets particularly in light of the push for 24-hour trading will also be susceptible.
▶ 2:56:26AIdriven traders, misinformation from bots, which are effectively AI agents already, a potential hurting activity by AI models will in increase market movement and risk destabilizing markets. So, as I said, agentic AI tools present many opportunities to improve the financial service system. But these risks are real and the regulators should be thinking about these risks and necessary safeguards.
▶ 2:56:50Now, I believe that this is a common sense and friendly amendment that will be appropriately expanding the scope of the financial regulators response to the financial risks of artificial intelligence and to better prepare our economy for the turbulent decade to come. I encourage my colleagues to support this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yield back.
▶ 2:57:10Thank you, Mr. Foster. I yields back. Does the gentleman insist on his point of order?
▶ 2:57:15I do not.
▶ 2:57:16Point of order is withdrawn. I move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:57:20Styles is recognized.
▶ 2:57:21Thank you very much. Uh I appreciate my colleague Mr. Foster's amendment. Indeed, it is a friendly amendment and I encourage my colleagues to support it. Uh the current bill the current uh list in the bill addresses deceptive AI enabled um activities but does not explicitly address risks from coordinated or automated AI reactions to market information.
▶ 2:57:45Uh as the gentleman noted, AI systems can operate uh at a speed and scale that may amplify market volatility or liquidity stress uh before human intervention uh is possible. Uh in particular, adversarial actors could even exploit AIdriven systems or signals in ways uh that contribute to broader market disruption. The addition is intended to ensure the report considers emerging risks associated with AI enabled market dynamics and automated decisionmaking.
▶ 2:58:16The provision uh complements existing categories related to false signals and digital fraud without duplicating them. And so for this reason I I thank the colleague uh for his work on this his friendly amendment. I encourage my colleagues to support the gentleman's amendment. I yield back.
▶ 2:58:33I thank the gentleman. Is there further debate on the amendment? Uh, ranking member Waters.
▶ 2:58:39I move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:58:40Is now recognized.
▶ 2:58:42Mr. Fosters's amendment would fill a critical gap in the bill and one of the greatest unknowns we are that confront us today, which is the threat of autonomous and agentic AI systems. It was just a few weeks ago that Anthropic, an AI developer, refused to release their latest AI model because it was too dangerous to release to the public. I urge members to support this amendment and I yield back.
▶ 2:59:12Gentle lady yields back. Is there further debate question? Uh there's no
▶ 2:59:17Oh, Mr. Nutton is recognized.
▶ 2:59:20Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I move to strike the last word.
▶ 2:59:24Recognized. I want to thank my colleague from Illinois, Mr. Foster. Not only do you have the best Franklidd Wright tie collection in Congress, you're also a future thinker of where innovation is going in this space. And you've highlighted correctly that this amendment would promote efficiency not only in our financial marketplace, but in how we look forward for where our financial markets are going.
▶ 2:59:45It supports privacy for data protection and it helps us all act at the speed of where AI is going while also providing a whole of nation approach to getting after these really hard problems. I thank you for your amendment and for the bipartisan effort that we've really been able to move forward as part of the overall AI plan act. I would encourage its adoption. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield my time.
▶ 3:00:07Gentleman yields back. Is there further If there's no further debate, uh the question now occurs on the Foster amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I. I.
▶ 3:00:20All All those opposed shall say no. And share the nose have it. I'm sorry. The eyes have it and the amendment is adopted. Is there further amendment?
▶ 3:00:32Request request a recorded vote.
▶ 3:00:34Gentlemen, requests a recorded vote. All those in favor of court vote, raise your hands. A sufficient number having raised their hand. Record vote is ordered pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three committee rules further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Any further amendments to this nature of amendment in the nature of a substitute. See no further amendments without objection on the previous question on substitute is ordered and recorded votes on the pending amendments have been postponed.
▶ 3:01:01Once those amendments are taken the committee will immediately vote on the adoption of the amendment and nature of a substitute and then consider the question to report the measure. We'll now move to the next bill notes. I call up HR4101, the unleashing AI innovation in financial services act, which I introduced. Clerk will report the bill which was distributed in advance.
▶ 3:01:25HR4801 to establish AI innovation labs that permit certain p persons to experiment with artificial intelligence
▶ 3:01:33Without objection, the first reading is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill is considered read and open to amendment at any point. I have an amendment in the nature of the substitute, copies of which were distributed in advance. I'd like to ask the clerk to report that amendment.
▶ 3:01:45An amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR4801 offered by Mr. Hill of Arkansas designated as Hill AR086.
▶ 3:01:53Without objection, that amendment is considered read and will serve as base text for the purposes of amendment. I recognize my five myself for five minutes to describe this amendment. As we've talked about today, artificial intelligence is no longer theoretical. It's reshaping critical sectors across our economy, including in financial services.
▶ 3:02:13From detecting fraud in real time to helping patch cyber security vulnerabilities to expanding access to capital, AI tools are helping institutions better serve individuals and small businesses. Through the committee hearings and our recent AI expo, we've seen firsthand how artificial intelligence is poised to help transform our economy.
▶ 3:02:36This committee and the House of Representatives have been engaged on the impact about artificial intelligence and financial services and the housing sector for multiple Congresses. Ranking member Waters started a task force. Former Chair Mckenry formed a working group led by Congressman Lynch and myself. and the House under Speaker Johnson and Minority Leader Jeff established the bipartisan task force on AI.
▶ 3:03:04This committee has prioritized the examination of AI's applications in financial services and housing as well as how regulators themselves are utilizing these cutting edge tools. We've also heard from experts about the regulatory gaps and challenges that must be overcome to ensure that well-governed deployment of AI innovation takes place. While generative and agentic AI present compelling opportunities, they also present new risks.
▶ 3:03:32We must be cognizant of these risks to ensure continued investor and consumer protection. And that's why the collaboration between regulators and the private sector is critical. We need a framework that encourages responsible innovation while maintaining strong safeguards and accountability. For the past two congresses, I've championed regulatory sandboxes as a practical common sense solution.
▶ 3:03:56Sandboxes allow firms to test AI applications in a controlled environment with clear guard rails and direct regulatory oversight. Under this approach, applicants would undergo a rigorous review process, receive approval from the appropriate regulators, and implement tailored safeguards to address risks related to financial stability, cyber security, customer protection, and sheltering of private information, and of course, national security.
▶ 3:04:27Firms supervised by multiple regulators would be required to notify and receive approval from each of those supervisors. Importantly, all test projects would remain subject to enforcement against fraud, market manipulation, or unsafe and unsound financial practices. We've seen this model work at the state level, and we've seen this also work in jurisdictions outside the United States, such as in the United Kingdom.
▶ 3:04:53It's a proven common sense tool to help regulators and innovators learn together while adopting adapting to a rapidly evolving technology. I've seen it work in my own district where the FIS FinTech Center in Little Rock, Arkansas, hosted for many years this exact kind of technological review and innovation screening where bank supervisors met with their uh banking counterparts to look at new forms of
▶ 3:05:24technology and under this kind of a sandbox routine, I think this would have really important benefits. The bill is bipartisan. It's biccameal. It has the support of a shared understanding that regulatory sandboxes are an effective way to build expertise, encourage, encourage innovation, and manage risk both in the private sector and among the Advancing this bill is critical to keeping the United States at the forefront of AI innovation while maintaining appropriate safeguards.
▶ 3:05:54I want to thank Chairman Style from Wisconsin, Representative Godheimer and Representative Torres for working with me on creating this legislation, taking comments about it and perfecting it. And I urge everybody on both sides of the aisle to support it and I yield back the balance of my time. Uh the ranking member uh moved to strike last
▶ 3:06:18recognized for five minutes. would unleash the potentiality catastrophic risk of newer AI models on the public without oversight or AI companies, financial regulators all around the world, executives of mega banks, and even the White House are urging Congress to do the exact opposite. as written.
▶ 3:06:47This legislation would allow companies in uh to experiment with AI without the need to uh with certain regulations to be subject to enforcement. An entity applying under this sandbox would simply propose an alternative method to comply and their preferred terms for the project which can be both broad and economically significant.
▶ 3:07:17As long as the project quote uh makes substantial use of AI end quote, entities are allowed to wave or modify regulations on a wide range of activities. Entities participating in this sandbox would get to set the timeline, size, scope, and growth of their project.
▶ 3:07:42At a time of unprecedented risk posed by AI, these AI test projects offer no protections for consumers, institutions, small businesses, or financial markets from harm. To make matters worse, especially in light of recent events, this bill fails to grapple with the threats from autonomous or self-directed AI.
▶ 3:08:08On April 7, one of those AI companies, Anthropic, announced a new AI model that found quote thousands of high severity including some in every major operating system and web browsing. The fallout for economies, public safety, and national security should be severe. End of quote.
▶ 3:08:37These warnings were followed by urgent meetings with Treasury Secretary Bessett, Fed Chair Jerome Powell, and the CEOs of major banks, world leaders, regulators, and central banks have continued to express strong concerns about the scale and speed of Mythos capabilities.
▶ 3:08:58And now even the Trump administration is considering acquiring AI companies get approval before releasing new models. Americans agree that we need strong oversight of AI. Polling shows that 97% of Americans think that uh think just quote AI safety and security should be subject to rules and regulations. End quote.
▶ 3:09:26But this bill would take off those bills for AI used in our financial and housing markets. It's no wonder that 90 civil rights, consumer, labor, technology, and other advocacy groups oppose this bill.
▶ 3:09:43They should allow financial firms to profit by capturing most of the benefits of AI but force their consumers and the economy to bear the burdens from the risks and the harms of AI deployment in the financial sector quote unquote.
▶ 3:10:07Any benefits from AI for consumers, investors, markets, and the financial system can only materialize if people are protected by a consistent application of federal civil rights, consumer protection, investor protection, market integrity, and oversight laws. Mr. Hill, why are you doing this? This is dangerous. Look at everybody who's taking a look and warning us.
▶ 3:10:36I would hope that you would withdraw the bill rather than continue. I urge a no vote on this reckless bill.
▶ 3:10:47The gentleoman yields back.
▶ 3:10:49Yield back.
▶ 3:10:50Uh does the gentleman from Wisconsin seek recognition?
▶ 3:10:53I do.
▶ 3:10:54The gentleman uh is recognized to strike the last word. I thank the chairman uh for his work on this bipartisan bill. The unleashing AI innovation in financial services act in financial services act enables responsible experimentation with AI that serves the public interest improve a improves access to financial services and promotes consumer and investor protection.
▶ 3:11:23For two congresses, this committee convened experts, held hearings, and advanced legislation to ensure America leads the global AI race. For decades, the financial services sector has been at the forefront of applying machine learning and AI breakthroughs to the real world. We now have an opportunity to build on that foundation.
▶ 3:11:43A proven way to enable innovation within the regulatory uh guardrails is through regulatory sandboxes that tailor compliance strategies to the specific risks and opportunities of new AI deployments. A regular a regulatory sandbox is of course not a blank check.
▶ 3:12:02It requires a rigorous application process in which the relevant regulators will impro impose appropriate terms, conditions, and limitations on qualifying projects to ensure effective risk management. This is a biccameal nonpartisan bill with key provisions to protect our markets, protect consumers, and protect our financial system. The bill ensures and requires the following.
▶ 3:12:30One, regulators to assess applicants ability to satisfy core standards. Two, dedicated regulatory personnel for participating projects. Three, full and fair disclosure to consumers regarding their direct interaction with test projects. And four, participants to regular regularly support their progress and stat report their progress and status to regulators.
▶ 3:12:56Time and again, we brought leading information security and AI experts to testify before our members and brief our staffs. This bill continues that commitment by requiring sandbox applicants to explain to regulators satisfaction how their AI test project would not present a systemic risk to our financial system nor a national security risk to the United States.
▶ 3:13:20Those regulators would set the appropriate terms, conditions, and limitations on those test projects to manage all relevant risks, including cyber threats. And regulators would maintain their enforcement authority with respect to fraud, market manipulation, and unsafe or unound practices. The stakes are clear. We must maintain American leadership in AI. This committee has already expressed unanimous support for that goal.
▶ 3:13:48To further that very leadership, in March, the White House put forward a national policy framework for AI, calling on Congress to establish regulatory sandboxes. Today, this committee stands ready to do just that, and I urge my colleagues to join me in supporting this vital piece of legislation. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 3:14:09Gentleman yields back. Is there further Mr. Foster?
▶ 3:14:16Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um I would do have to strike the last word.
▶ 3:14:22Gentleman's recognized for five minutes.
▶ 3:14:24Um yeah, I I support the idea behind many of the bills being considered today that share the goal of increasing credential regulators ability to respond to emerging technology and I and I I share that that opinion.
▶ 3:14:38However, um when I although I believe agencies should uh use techniques including sandboxes to be more responsive to innovations, I believe it's that appropriate safeguards are absolutely crucial um when we're considering mechanisms to accelerate AI adoption uh to make sure they're not simply used as a mechanism to sidestep long-standing consumer and investor protections.
▶ 3:15:03Uh first, this bill appears to allow any number of firms to request an alternative compliance regime for nearly any regulation and that those alternatives would not be subject to public notice and comments. And there while there may be a place for increased speed and flexibility especially in light of high impactful and transformative technologies like we've seen reported in recent months uh we should fully consider the risk of adopting new tools rapidly across large portions of the marketplace.
▶ 3:15:32If this legislation is meant to allow the testing of new technologies we should consider limitations on the the size of the market share of participants for any specific sandbox project. um this sort of approach has been taken for example in the UK and um didn't seem to damage um in in other areas different than AI where they do sandboxes they have limits on market size to make sure it doesn't become just a hole that uh they that you know semi-truckss are driven through um and because if leading players that
▶ 3:16:03represent a lion share of any particular market segment receive regulatory flexibility it's really no longer a sandbox it's a new regulatory standard that's come through without notice comment. Um and at at that point um the regula at the point that a significant market share is anticipated or achieved by the sandbox, the regulatory change should go through the normal rulemaking process and be subject to notice and comment by industry, consumer advocates and other interested parties.
▶ 3:16:31Um so I think a limit on market share is a missing crucial component here. Uh secondly, we should also consider whether we want this uh flexibility to last uh indefinitely or sunset. This legislation does not appear to limit the amount of time any sandbox can operate, potentially allowing for an infinite waiver waiver of regulatory obligations, which I don't believe is the intent. And and finally, this bill depends crucially on appropriate agency oversight.
▶ 3:16:59However, several of the agencies that are affected by this bill, namely the FDIC, SEC, NCUA, are currently operating without a full board of commission as laid out in in statute. Um, Democratic leaders of of these agencies has either been forced out by this administration or left them um because of um policy discussions.
▶ 3:17:21Um and these these agencies are leaderships are left lopsided without any democratic uh representation and so that's a very dangerous configuration to um try to to provide safety and direction to a a concept that I you know I basically support. U so this is also not even mentioning the administration's gutting of the consumer financial protection bureau which has significantly reduced its regulatory and enforcement capacity since President Trump took office.
▶ 3:17:51This allows this is really crucial because it allows regulators limited time to review applications with a default that it gets approved. So if there's no one home to look critically at the application um and the you know and the leadership is missing uh then you it's just not going to function as intended.
▶ 3:18:11uh these bodies must have adequate leadership even to do their normal jobs and and adequate staffing if we are expecting them to carry out a robust analysis of the risks that these regulatory waiverss will pose to the American public. So I believe financial regulators need to respond more quickly to emerging technologies and sandboxes are an important tool there.
▶ 3:18:32But we we just have to do a lot more to make sure that uh this doesn't become a a loophole in regulation that will um ultimately damage investors and consumers. So that's my that's my concerns and it's
▶ 3:18:46with the gentleman
▶ 3:18:46question of regret. Yes,
▶ 3:18:49you bring up some good points and I think the bill uh does address many of those points. I won't have time to use your time to express it, but I'll certainly be happy to respond to each of the points you made and how the bill actually addresses that. I yield back to the gentleman. Um,
▶ 3:19:03thank you. I I do believe more work needs to be done um to get this to the point where I I will be supporting it and certainly we will continue to if it this doesn't get through this Congress, we'll continue to work on it next Congress as well because the concept is sound but the details matter. And I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Who seeks
▶ 3:19:27Uh, seeing no additional comments on the underlying bill, we'll turn to
▶ 3:19:32Could Could I uh strike the last word?
▶ 3:19:35The gentleman can strike the last word.
▶ 3:19:36Yeah. Thank you. And I and I I apologize if I'm intervening here. But
▶ 3:19:40no worries.
▶ 3:19:41You're you're you're recognized for five
▶ 3:19:43Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this this this bill uh seems extremely reckless to me. Uh normally when we have a a so-called uh sandbox, there is a deliberate and and and defined effort to protect the uh to to make sure and it usually a sandbox is is taken on in in circumstances like we have today
▶ 3:20:13with uh when there is a new technology that that uh we are allowing to be used or experimented with. Most recently members of this committee were able to go to Singapore where they had a sandbox on fintech and and fintech and banking in particular.
▶ 3:20:38But in that case they they actually They actually protected the the general public and the markets uh innocent investors. They protected their senior citizens by by tightly regulating uh the parties and the conditions under which they conducted that that sandbox.
▶ 3:21:03and uh they limited its duration and they had plenty of warnings to people who were going to engage with companies within that that that sandbox. They they basically said this is a new technology. Uh we're going to try to we'll exercise discretion here.
▶ 3:21:22Uh but but we're going to take extreme measures to make sure that the public, senior citizens uh but also the financial markets were protected from any damage, any unforeseen damage. We don't do any of that in this bill.
▶ 3:21:41Uh this basically this bill basically says if you're an AI company or a company using AI, you can launch an experiment uh an AI project and and you're immediately allowed to to wave certain consumer protections, investor protections, market u while you're within this this so-called sandbox.
▶ 3:22:08But it it it affords none of the protections that normally would come along with an experiment of this type. And if there's any technology that deserves uh caution and and and and protections, it's AI. Uh sometimes we refer to these companies as AI companies, but what we're seeing lately is every company, every company is an AI company.
▶ 3:22:37once they once they adopt that that uh that model or or that technology and uh we're seeing a number of troubling instances with the use of AI. Uh we're seeing uh hallucinations in some of these large language models that people are using. We're also seeing the effect of hurting where several of these large language models uh guide people into the same uh problems.
▶ 3:23:09And we're seeing a lot of the things uh that a lot of the dangers that occurred during the the financial crisis of 2008 where people made basic assumptions uh that were found to be disastrously wrong and we ended up spending I didn't vote for it but we ended up spending $827 billion bailing out bailing out the financial services industry.
▶ 3:23:36So, um I think if we continue on this road, if we pass this bill, uh we're we're putting a lot of people at risk. And I especially worry about our senior citizens who are often uh the targets of some of these scams that are out there that use AI as a way of uh exploiting the the lack of sophistication or the uh the lack of protections that are available to senior citizens.
▶ 3:24:06So I I am strongly against this bill and uh this this this technology needs serious and robust regulation. I believe it offers wonderful potential but but also as we have seen it offers the opportunity for for severe violations of uh the right to privacy and it also offers uh opportunities for those who would
▶ 3:24:36uh who would violate the law to use this technology to to exploit the innocent as well. Uh with that, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I I ask my colleagues to vote against this and I yield back the balance.
▶ 3:24:50Time is expired. Who seeks recognition?
▶ 3:24:56Is there any other uh we ready for amendments?
▶ 3:25:02The ranking member has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause for it to be Mr. Style has reserved a point of order on the waters amendment.
▶ 3:27:20The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 3:27:23An amendment to the amendment in the
▶ 3:27:24Without objection, the amendment is considered read. Uh the gentleoman is recognized on her amendment.
▶ 3:27:29Thank you very much. My amendment would stop this bill from taking effect until there is a study by Treasury in consultation with all regulators in the bill that confirms that the light touch oversight of projects using AI models like Mythos will not harm our economy.
▶ 3:27:52Reporting indicates that on April 7th, 2026, Treasury Secretary Scott Besset and Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell summon the CEOs of big banks including Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, City, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo to an urgent meeting where they warned the banks about mythos capabilities to detect and exploit potential cyber cyber security
▶ 3:28:22weaknesses. Anthropic, an AI company that created Mythos, established Project Glass Wing to allow major banks, tech companies, and other firms to use the model to identify and fix vulnerabilities in their systems. Notably, we had to rely on Anthropic to restrain itself.
▶ 3:28:44As it appears, the Treasury, Fed, and White House were completely caught off guard by how powerful this AI tool is. Yet, despite these developments, Republicans are pushing forward with a bill not only ignores the important work that needs to be done to ensure AI is properly regulated, they would also allow companies to pick and choose which laws they want to comply with.
▶ 3:29:12Committee Republicans should follow the Trump administration's pivot to emphasize AI safety. So my amendment would ensure that this bill does not let advanced models like mythos increase risks to consumers, investors, small businesses, cyber security, national security and financial stab stability. So I urge members to support this amendment and I yield back.
▶ 3:29:42The gentleoman yields back. Uh I remove my point of order. Is there further debate on the amendment? I recognize myself to strike the last word. Um first I want to go back uh to the uh the previous amendment Mr. Foster uh or the the discussion that took place with Mr.
▶ 3:30:01professor as it relates uh to ter termination date if I can because he brings up a a broadly a good point on the termination date but I think it's worthy of a quick clarification here uh the the required alternative compliance strategies in the bill already require proposed limitations on the size scope uh and growth of the AI test project as well as a termination date. Uh the regulators can then tailor these limitations uh to achieve effective risk management.
▶ 3:30:30uh so to achieve risk-based compliance strategies these timings and scoped questions should be tailored to the specific benefit profile of the relevant project. So the tailoring will enable responsible experimentation within appropriate guardrails uh and enable our regulators to learn best practices from a diversity of market participants uh and ideas. So I just want to let it go that there is no termination date.
▶ 3:30:54not a set termination date, but is a a termination date as decided in each given instance.
▶ 3:31:02Yeah. Um would the gentleman yield for a
▶ 3:31:05Yeah, I I'll
▶ 3:31:06Yeah, that that answers the first two points. There is a mechanism to terminate the the thing, but leaving it up to the discretion of regulators when the regulators have been driven out by this administration is a sticking point right now. If we had, you know, a good faith uh effort to keep the relevant commissions and so on fully staffed uh with the bipartisan thing, then it would be much easier for us to support this legislation at this point in time.
▶ 3:31:34Appreciate the gentleman's comments. We'll we'll we'll agree to disagree on the point, but but broadly speaking, there there is termination dates. It's just where that termination date would come from. Let me let me jump back uh to to the amendment in question here uh from Miss Waters. Um, I'd note the amendment uh is unnecessary. The bill we're marking up today uh already requires alternative compliance strategies to effectively manage risks associated with AI test projects.
▶ 3:32:00Uh and the regulators decide what the alternative comp compliance will look like and how firms will meet their obligations under the strategy. More importantly, this framework is riskbased. So successful applicants are required to effectively manage the specific risks of their own projects. Not every risk enumerated even when or even where uh that's nonrelevant to their own work.
▶ 3:32:25This ANS already delays implementation by one year to give those regulators ample opportunity to to develop the implementing regulations. delaying implementation until an additional study is done risk counter being counterproductive in delaying the regulations and assessments uh and regulatory oversight.
▶ 3:32:48So ultimately we want to incentivize responsible innovation uh within fitforpurpose sandboxes and part of that is making sure regulators making sure regulators implement uh those rules. So, I encourage my colleagues to vote no and I yield back. Is there further debate um or questions on the amendment? Seeing none, uh all those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 3:33:15All those opposed signify by saying no. No. In the opinion of the chairs, the nos have it. The nos have it. And the amendment is not adopted.
▶ 3:33:23Recorded vote is requested.
▶ 3:33:25A recorded vote is requested. Um all those in favor of recorded vote raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand. Uh recorded vote is order. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three of the committee rules further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Are there any further amendment to the amendment and the nature of a substitute?
▶ 3:34:00Is there we will pause briefly.
▶ 3:34:51For what purpose does the gentleman seek
▶ 3:34:54I believe I have an amendment at the
▶ 3:34:56Indeed, you do. We will pause while the amendment is distributed.
▶ 3:35:06Mr. Chairman
▶ 3:35:08is recognized.
▶ 3:35:09I request a point of order. A point of order is requested
▶ 3:35:13or is reserved.
▶ 3:35:18I'm just trying to track down the text. No worries.
▶ 3:35:41Good. Good to go.
▶ 3:35:43The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 3:35:45An amendment to the amendment.
▶ 3:35:46Objection. The amendment is considered read. Uh the gentleman is recognized on his amendment.
▶ 3:35:52Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Uh, this amendment would strengthen the baseline standards that an AI system must meet before it can be approved for a test project under HR 4801. Now, specifically, it adds two new eligibility criteria for for what would become a project.
▶ 3:36:11The AI system must be readily explainable to human end users and consumers and it must not be detrimental to the reliability and fairness of data decision making or recommendations. And this this goes to a couple of the weaknesses in in the the current AI uh models that that are in use.
▶ 3:36:36These are minimum conditions necessary to ensure that AI is deployed in final in financial services on real consumers with real consequences. A financial institution should be able to explain to a customer why an AI system denied their loan application, for example, or flagged their account or recommended a particular product. If it cannot, that system has no business being tested on the public under a federal regulatory waiver.
▶ 3:37:06It's as simple as that. The fairness criterion is equally important. More than 60 civil rights, consumer, labor, and technology and advocacy groups have opposed this bill in part because it's regulatory ra waiver framework includes no restrictions on waving anti-discrimination laws or consumer protection laws.
▶ 3:37:32A system that produces biased outputs and that happens all the time in its in its credit decisions, its insurance pricing or fraud detection can cause serious harm to communities that have historically borne the brunt of discriminatory financial practices.
▶ 3:37:50So my amendment would ensure that any I AI system seeking a federal sandbox approval cannot as a threshold matter be shown to undermine the reliability and fairness of the decisions it is making. And for that re those reasons I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to support this amendment.
▶ 3:38:10And and I I just want to just take for a minute try to try to point out the the problem the underlying problem with with this legislation and what I'm trying to AI systems and and in particular agentic actually creates contract content and and and changes itself as it takes in data from the environment.
▶ 3:38:40So a company could have an agentic AI LLM model, large language model and that that system is not static. It's not like you insert technology and it sits there and you can repair it once in a while. No, this is a learning machine. This is a a learning technology. What it does is it it takes in data from the outside world and it constantly changes. It constantly changes.
▶ 3:39:09So, so it's never completely contained, nor is it nor is it static. It's always learning. It's And we don't have a good sense or a predictable sense of how it will change.
▶ 3:39:27So it is inherently not containable nor nor is it nor are we able to the ways in which it may grow based on the the the information it brings in. It is it is transformative and it is being transformed as it brings in new data.
▶ 3:39:49So it makes the makes it extremely difficult for us to protect people who might otherwise be harmed by this this What what the bill does is it waves the consumer protections uh that that exist right now in a number of of of different contexts uh for for uh the SEC, for the uh you know the Financial
▶ 3:40:20Protection Bureau, uh many of uh the FDIC, many of our agencies have regulations that protect What this bill does is if a company that is meaningfully involved in AI sets up a project, so-called project, then they are exempt. They are exempt from the protections.
▶ 3:40:46They are outside of the compliance requirements that those regulations would normally provide for seniors and to consumers. So for those reasons, I ask that uh people support my amendment and uh reject the underlying bill if it is if my amendment is not adopted. Thank you. The gentleman yields. Uh does the gentleman insist on his point of order? The gentleman does not insist on his point of order.
▶ 3:41:16Is there further debate on the amendment? I recognize myself uh for five minutes to strike the last word. Um, I oppose this amendment uh as I believe it's redundant. Uh, the conditions for approval include that the applicant must explain to the regulator satisfaction of core requirements including how the project would not present a systemic financial risk or national security risk to the United States.
▶ 3:41:42Uh further the legislation requires that all data from test projects is stored and maintained in a secure manner consistent with all applicable data security standards. The regulators at all times retain their enforcement authorities with respect to unsafe or unound practices. It's also important to note that federal and state law including applicable data privacy and cyber security standards would still apply. Uh because of this, I believe the amendment is offered as duplicative.
▶ 3:42:13Uh and I would encourage my colleagues to vote now. I yield back. Is there further uh on the amendment? If there's no further debate, the question now occurs on the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 3:42:30All those opposed signify by saying no. No. The opinion of the chairs, the nos have it. The nos have it. And the amendment is not adopted. a recorded vote.
▶ 3:42:41A recorded vote is requested. All those in favor of a recorded vote, uh, raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand, a recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three, the committee rules. Further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Are there further amendments or debate? Are there further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a Mr.
▶ 3:43:09Chairman, I believe I have an amendment, another amendment at the desk. The we'll pause or the amendment is distributed.
▶ 3:43:43The clerk will report the amendment. Oh,
▶ 3:43:47we're circulating still. The clerk will
▶ 3:43:58Mr. Chairman,
▶ 3:44:00Mr. Settzman's recognized.
▶ 3:44:01I reserve a point of order.
▶ 3:44:02Point of order has been reserved.
▶ 3:44:07The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 3:44:09an amendment to the amendment in the nature of
▶ 3:44:11without objection, the amendment is considered read. The gentleman is recognized on his amendment.
▶ 3:44:17I thank the gentleman. Mr. Chairman, uh, in the interest of consumer protection and regulatory accountability, this amendment would require that any regulated entity seeking approval for an AI so-called test project under the legislation, they would require be required to explain how that project will reduce the cost to consumers and require regulated entities to file regular reports with the appropriate financial regulatory agency containing both a description
▶ 3:44:47of the AI test projects usage and outcomes and and the data on actual consumer costs. If the project does increase costs, the agency must terminate any AI test project that increases consumer costs. There is currently no established clearing house or single responsible singly responsible entity to observe and maintain reports and data on these projects.
▶ 3:45:15This amendment would require the financial regulatory agencies to join jointly establish a clearing house to collect and share all such reports across agencies ensuring coordinated cross agency oversight of AI activity in financial services. Proponents of this bill have argued that AI powered innovation in financial services will benefit consumers by lowering costs, improving efficiency, and expanding access to products and services.
▶ 3:45:44If that is truly the goal, then companies applying for these AI test project approvals should have no objection to demonstrating that their projects actually deliver on that promise. Americans remain skeptical of AI with recent surveys showing that over half of American adults are concerned about the increased use of AI in their daily lives.
▶ 3:46:08Financial services companies have consistently deployed new technologies to reduce their own operational costs without passing those savings on to consumers and in fact are likely harming them. Across the United States, the energy demands of AI infrastructure are already driving up electricity prices in communities across the country.
▶ 3:46:30A Bloomberg report found that areas with the highest concentration of data centers saw electricity prices jump 267% over the past five years. Thank you, AI. Moreover, companies continue to announce mass layoffs, attributing workforce reductions to AI gains, including Coinbase cutting for 14% of its workforce, and PayPal planning to cut 20% of its staff.
▶ 3:46:58The cost savings from automation are acrewing to shareholders and not to customers or employees. This amendment would introduce a basic accountability and transparency requiring companies to report on what their AI test projects actually do and what they are costing consumers, sharing that data across regulators, and pulling the plug on any project that raises costs rather than lowers them.
▶ 3:47:27If an AI test project cannot demonstrate that it's operating as described and benefiting not harming consumers on cost, it should not be allowed to proceed. That is a reasonable condition for a regulatory waiver that the underlying bill would grant to these companies at the public's expense. Regulators should not have to act on a company's word alone. They should have the data and they should share it. I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to support this amendment and I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 3:47:58The gentleman yields back. Um, does the gentleman insist on his point of order? Point of order is withdrawn. Is there further debate on the amendment? I recognize myself for five minutes to strike the last word. Um, I oppose this amendment uh as I did the previous one as it's also uh redundant.
▶ 3:48:17Uh the ANS before us includes a rulemaking on disclosure requirements for regulated entities to inform consumers with all reasonably appropriate information regarding their direct interaction with an AI test project. They must describe the project and the sandbox itself, including the applicable terms, limitations, and conditions imposed on the test project.
▶ 3:48:43This provision is based on our continuous process to refine this product, including input from our colleagues across the aisle. Again, our focus is on addressing a variety of risks. This amendment goes further and essentially puts the regulator in charge of deciding what goes to market on the basis of costs. It's not a recipe for good, safe innovation and competition. And because I believe the underlying amend the amendment is offered is duplicative, I encourage my colleagues to vote no. I yield back.
▶ 3:49:13Is there further debate on the amendment? If there's no further If there's no further debate, the question now occurs on the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment shall signify by saying I.
▶ 3:49:27All those opposed signify by saying no.
▶ 3:49:29No. In the opinion of the chairs, the nos have it. The nose have it and the amendment is not adopted. Are there any further amendments in the nature of a substitute? Mr. Chairman, I believe I have another amendment at the
▶ 3:49:47Yeah. Can I get a recorded vote on that
▶ 3:49:51Sure. We'll go We'll go back in time.
▶ 3:49:53Thank you.
▶ 3:49:54Is a a recorded vote uh is requested. Um all those in favor of a recorded vote, uh raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand, a recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three and the committee rules, further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Thank you for your courtesy.
▶ 3:50:11You're welcome.
▶ 3:50:12Appreciate that.
▶ 3:50:12Uh are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a
▶ 3:50:17Uh yes, Mr. Chairman. I believe I have an amendment at the desk.
▶ 3:50:20The gentleman has an amendment at the desk. We'll pause. All the amendments
▶ 3:50:33Mr. Chairman, gentleman's recognized. I reserve a point of order. A point of order is Thank you. The clerk will report the
▶ 3:50:49An amendment to the amendment in the nature of sub.
▶ 3:50:51Without objection, the amendment is considered read. The gentleman is recognized on his amendment.
▶ 3:51:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Chairman, this amendment addresses one of the most serious gaps I believe that exists in 4801 as currently written. It restores full government enforcement and penalty authority, including under any regulation that was waved or modified as part of an AI test project.
▶ 3:51:19Whenever a person is actually harmed uh financially or otherwise as a result of that project, the bill is introduced provides a regulatory enforcement shield uh to participating companies. If a regulation is waved uh as part of an approved AI test project, the government cannot bring an enforcement action on behalf of a victim uh against any action or impose penalties for violating that regulation.
▶ 3:51:48That shield is overly broad. It applies even if the conduct in question causes real harm to a person. This amendment corrects that. If someone is hurt by AI is hurt by one of these AI test projects, the enforcement shield should come down. Regulators get their full toolkit back, including authority under any regulation that was otherwise waved.
▶ 3:52:16The regulatory sandbox this bill creates is not a consequencefree environment. uh it is open to the public and folks will have argued that AI powered innovation in financial services will will benefit consumers by lowering costs or by improving efficiency and expanding access to products and services. That may be so. But innovation does on occasion uh cause harm.
▶ 3:52:46It does not immuni immunize institutions from accountability when things go wrong. A regulatory waiver is not a license to harm. The underlying bill gives participant companies significant latitude, regulatory waiverss, protections from enforcement actions, and it allowed them in some cases to escape liability for for harm in giving them their ability to deploy.
▶ 3:53:16These AI systems may harm consumers before these systems face full legal scrutiny. That latitude is already substantial. This amendment simply ensures it has a floor and that American consumers maintain their right to seek recourse when they are unduly harmed by these AI test projects. A regulatory sandbox should be a space to test and learn, not a space to harm without consequences. and this amendment draws that line.
▶ 3:53:46I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to support this amendment and I yield back the balance of my time.
▶ 3:53:52Gentleman yields back as the gentleman insists on his point of order.
▶ 3:53:59Gentleman withdraws his point of order. Is there further debate on the I recognize myself for five minutes to strike the last word. Um I oppose this amendment uh as this amendment is unnecessary. Um, the bill creates a framework for responsibly testing AI innovation in financial services. Let me just take a moment to restate a few key provisions in the bill.
▶ 3:54:25It requires sandbox applicants to demonstrate to regulators satisfaction that a proposed test does not pose systemic risk to the financial system or national security risks to the United States. Regulators retain full authority to establish terms, conditions, and limitations on test projects, including requirements to manage cyber security and other operational risks.
▶ 3:54:52Regulators maintain their existing enforcement authority with respect to fraud, market manipulation, and unsafe or unsound practices. This is not a framework that gives companies free reign to experiment without oversight. Quite the contrary, it's a structured regulatory process in which agencies set boundaries, monitor activities, and retain full enforcement authority.
▶ 3:55:17Our financial firms are some of the most highly regulated and supervised entities in the world. They're subject to requirements that affect every aspect of their business and operations. The bill is clear. fraud and manipulation and unsafe and unound practices are absolutely never acceptable. The bill provides responsible innovation with firms working under the strict guard rails approved by regulators.
▶ 3:55:46Because the amendment as offered uh is unnecessary, I encourage my colleagues to oppose this amendment. I yield back. Is there further debate on the There's no further debate. The question now occurs on the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment, so they'll signifi signify by saying I.
▶ 3:56:05All those opposed will signify by saying no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the nos have it. The nos have it and the amendment is not adopted. I mean
▶ 3:56:17a recorded vote
▶ 3:56:18is requested. All those in favor recorded vote raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand. A recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three, the committee rules further proceedings on the amendment are postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment and the nature of a Seeing no further amendments, without objection, the previous question on the substitute is ordered and recorded votes on the pending amendments have been postponed.
▶ 3:56:44Once those votes are taken, the committee will immediately vote on the adoption of the amendment of the nature of a substitute and then we'll consider the question to report the measure. We will now move on to the next Pursuant to notice, I call up HR
▶ 3:57:148278, the fostering the use of technology to uphold regulatory effectiveness and supervision futures act uh which was introduced by repres Representative Stzman. Uh, the clerk will report the bill which was distributed in advance.
▶ 3:57:30HR 8278 to report.
▶ 3:57:31Without objection, the first reading is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill is considered read and open to amendment at any point. Representative Stzman has an amendment in the nature of a substitute, copies of which have been distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 3:57:45An amendment in the nature of
▶ 3:57:46objection. The amendment is considered read and will serve as base text for purposes of amendment. The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Stzman is recognized for 5 minutes.
▶ 3:57:55Uh thank you uh Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the chairman of the committee giving this bill a hearing. Uh the futures act uh which is fostering the use of technology to uphold regulatory effectiveness in supervision act. Um I have two letters I would like to submit for the record. One from the American Bankers Association and one from the defense credit unions. Submitted without objection.
▶ 3:58:21Thank you. Uh whether you're on Main Street or Wall Street, American financial institutions are on the leading edge of technological development and innovation. Every day I hear more about how institutions are harnessing artificial intelligence and real-time data analytics to manage risk, detect fraud, and serve customers faster than ever before.
▶ 3:58:44And yet their regulators often lag behind, still relying on outdated IT infrastructure from a pre-digital era. This gap poses significant risks, not just for our financial markets, but for the entire economy that depends on effective supervision. As the private sector continues to innovate at a record pace, our regulators must have the tools to keep up. That's where my bipartisan futures act comes in.
▶ 3:59:13My bill requires federal credential regulators to assess the techn the technology systems they use for supervision, evaluate their procurement practices, and report to Congress on current deficiencies and areas for improvement. Simply put, we cannot help our regulators modernize their technology for the digital age if we don't know the challenges that they face.
▶ 3:59:37Whether it's talent gaps, procurement barriers, or technological blind spots, Congress needs to understand the red tape that is keeping supervision in the past while the financial systems uh financial system races into the future. In fact, we already require this kind of information from the institutions our regulators supervise.
▶ 3:59:59Depository institutions must undergo quarterly technology reviews, internal and external penetration testing, and rigorous due diligence on every vendor that they use. If we require that of them, we ought to hold their regulators to that same standard. The Futures Act is a straightforward, common sense, and bipartisan step to address the critical technology challenges facing our regulators.
▶ 4:00:26A very similar version of this bill advanced out of this committee unanimously in the 118th Congress thanks to the hard work of my friend and fellow Hooser, Mrs. Houchin. So I'm proud to carry this bill forward in an even stronger form today. And I hope that this bill will again receive the broad support of my colleagues here on this committee. I want to thank my distinguished colleague, Dr.
▶ 4:00:48for Bill Foster, not only for his thoughtfulness, but also once again for co-leading this legislation and for his commitment to ensuring that supervision keeps pace with innovation. I also want to thank Chairman Hill for his continued support of this measure and I would urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to support this common sense bill and I'll yield back.
▶ 4:01:09The gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Fosters, recognized to strike the last word.
▶ 4:01:16Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'd first like to thank Representative Susman for his partnership on this bill uh and for to you for including it in today's markup. The futures act will require federal banking regulators and the consumer financial protection bureau to regularly review their technology systems and procurement pack practices to ensure that they are well equipped to address emerging threats to the financial system.
▶ 4:01:40This review will determine whether agency's current technology systems are up to the task of monitoring vulnerabilities of the modern financial system. Uh banking is moving to real-time 247 operations as consumer demand and for faster payments and the increased use of digital banking tools uh you know takes over big parts of the market.
▶ 4:01:59Uh, this bill will require agencies to determine whether they have access to the right information when they need it and whether they have systems in place to identify risk and to take informed actions on the necessary time scale when the data calls for it. Regulators will submit a report to Congress identifying any obsolete systems or procurement processes that are inhibiting their ability to supervise modern financial institutions.
▶ 4:02:24As of we saw in the collapse of regional banks back in 2023, 24-hour banking tools and social media fueled panic and I intensify bank runs and increase the risk of contagion. And this will only be amplified when AI apps are dominating the financial landscape. Um, financial institutions and regulators must be ready to respond to new opportunities and challenges stemming from these emerging technologies.
▶ 4:02:52Artificial intelligence and AI agents have the potential to supercharge cyber security risk, contagion, and fraud, which can destabilize our financial system more quickly than in years past. At the same time, these technologies represent tools to regulators and financial institutions that they can use to improve bank supervision, identify suspicious activity, and improve the quality of customer service.
▶ 4:03:16The maintenance of a well-regulated financial system requires investment in new tools, hiring of a workforce with the necessary technical skills, and streamline procurement rules that allow regulators to keep up with the rapid developments in private industry. One timely example of this is through the increased use of open-source collaboratively maintained software packages.
▶ 4:03:37Uh something that I Jaime Diamond of JP Morgan cannot seem to open his mouth without mentioning these days and a trend that should allow us to um really make the entire banking and financial system um industry much more cyber secure to put all of our our eggs in a small number of baskets and guard those baskets carefully.
▶ 4:03:58Uh so this legislation will task regulators with reviewing the current state of their internal systems to ensure they're ready to meet the challenges of the day as shedding light on new tools that can improve their ability to oversee a changing financial system. So I support this common sense bill, encourage my colleagues to vote yes and I yield back.
▶ 4:04:17The gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? The gentleman, the ranking member, Mr. Lynch is recognized to strike the last
▶ 4:04:26Thank you, Mr. chairman uh move to strike the last word. Uh I I want to congratulate both the gentleman from Indiana and the gentleman from Illinois on the improvements on this bill. I I do recall uh in the last last uh 118th Congress uh we even though we approved it uh in committee there were some concerns that were raised and I think uh the gentleman from Indiana and and and Mr.
▶ 4:04:54the foster from Illinois have have uh adeptly I think addressed many of those concerns. So uh as they have stated it'll compel agencies to submit a joint report on internal supervisory technology including procurement practices, workforce market developments and information sharing which is uh very important.
▶ 4:05:15Uh so I congratulate my colleagues on uh the the improvements made to this bill and I call upon my colleagues to support this bill and I yield back.
▶ 4:05:24The gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS?
▶ 4:05:29I recognize myself uh to strike the last word for five minutes. Today we're considering several bills that address how we adjust to changing technologies and its opportunities and risks. We're addressing the rise of AI powered financial crime, fraud, and scams, and ensuring the federal agencies have the tools they need to protect our national and economic security from these threats.
▶ 4:05:51Uh we're considering how federal financial regulatory agencies can work with industry stakeholders to responsibly test new AI applications through a controlled sandbox environment. And now with the Futures Act, we're taking a critical step to modernize financial supervision.
▶ 4:06:08The bill directs the federal financial regulatory agencies to assess whether they have the technology and infrastructure needed to supervise our markets and institutions in real time and where they fall short of that goal. With today's pace of innovation, real time supervision is no longer simply aspirational. It is achievable and it is necessary to strengthen market integrity and protect participants.
▶ 4:06:35Where barriers exist, the Futures Act requires agencies to identify them so we can address them. The bill also ensures agencies are equipped with the right talent and expertise to oversee increasingly complex technologydriven markets. Taken together, these efforts reflect a clear approach, embrace innovation, manage risk, and modernize oversight. I urge my colleagues to support this critical common sense legislation and I yield back.
▶ 4:07:05Is there further debate on the ANS? Hearing none, we'll move to amendments. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment to the ANS? There being no further discussion or amendments on the bill, the question now occurs on adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute. All those in favor signify by saying I.
▶ 4:07:33I. All those opposed, nay. In the opinion of the chairs, the eyes have it and the amendment is adopted. The question now occurs on ordering the bill as amended to be reported to the house with a favorable recommendation. Those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. Those opposed? No. Opinion. Chair. The eyes have it. Does the gentleman request a recorded
▶ 4:07:58Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote.
▶ 4:07:59A recorded vote is requested. All those in favor recorded vote shall raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand. A recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three of the committee rules, vote on the question is postponed. We'll now move on to the next bill.
▶ 4:08:24Pursuant to notice, I call up HR 8671, the Bank Fraud Technology Advancement Act of 2026, which was introduced by Representative Flood. The clerk will report the bill, which was distributed in advance.
▶ 4:08:41Without objection, the first reading is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill is considered read and open to amendment at any point. Representative Flood has an amendment in the nature of a substitute, copies of which have been distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.
▶ 4:08:55Amendment in the nature.
▶ 4:08:56Without objection, the amendment is considered read and will serve as base tax for purposes of amendment. The gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Flood, is recognized for five minutes.
▶ 4:09:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also want to thank my co-lead in this legislation, Congresswoman Patterson. We have collaborated for years on issues relating to the intersection of advanced technology and fraud both with this piece of legislation and the preventing deep fake scams act. So appreciate her.
▶ 4:09:22The Bank Fraud Technology Advancement Act of 2026 directs the federal banking agencies along with Fininsson, Treasury, the FTC, the CFPB, and the FCC to conduct a study on the advanced on the uh use of advanced fraud technology by insured depository institutions and credit unions. Following completion of that study, the regulators would issue a report to Congress with legislative recommendations that promote fraud detection and prevention.
▶ 4:09:51Then a year after the report is sent to Congress, the federal banking regulators would be able to jointly establish a pilot program to facilitate community financial institutions and credit unions with access to advanced fraud detection tools. We know that scammers and fraudsters are utilizing technology like AI to target consumers and steal their money.
▶ 4:10:13Just today, I met with the uh special agent in charge of the FBI in Nebraska and Iowa, and we spent the entire meeting talking about financial crimes and financial fraud. Deep fakes can mimic a family member's face or voice, convincing a loved one to transfer money or a fraudster. Generative AI can be used to supercharge existing scam methods like email fishing, even to dupe more people.
▶ 4:10:39In an environment where the scammers and fraudsters are using technology to target customers and consumers, we need to make sure community financial institutions, including community banks, can keep up. While larger institutions are already widely using some of this technology, it's important that institutions of every size have the same tools to track fraud.
▶ 4:11:01This legislation lays out a thoughtful approach to providing access to smaller financial institutions with the technology they need to combat fraud. We are going to study the problem. We're going to get a report sent to Congress and then we're going to take action with a pilot specifically tailored to the problem we're trying to solve. I do believe that this act will put our community financial institutions in a better position to fight fraud with the best technology possible. I urge everybody to support it and I will leave you with this.
▶ 4:11:30Imagine you are an 84year-old widow. Your husband has predesceased you. You have a grandson who you know and love. You get a call from someone that sounds exactly like your grandson and he says that he's been kidnapped or he's in jail or he's uh in imminent danger. You love him with all of your being. You run to the bank. You wire $5,000 to wherever you're told to do it.
▶ 4:11:59and you do it because you love him and that money is gone forever. This is going to be what happens with generative AI. This is bigger than any of all of us and it's going to take people's hard-earned money and it's going to get it wasted. And so with that, I want to thank Congresswoman Person for her co-lead on this. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 4:12:21The gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? The gentleoman from Colorado is recognized to strike the last word. Thank you. I move to strike the last word. I guess I can just keep going. Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I want to thank my friend from Nebraska for partnering with me on this important issue and so many others. I'm so grateful for you.
▶ 4:12:41I want to highlight some sobering statistics about how AI has supercharged the fraud threats facing banks, credit unions, and other financial institutions, and why Bank Fraud Technology Advancement Act is an important step forward. Last year, US companies saw an estimated 4 billion in fraud losses in 2025 while AI powered scams surged by over,200% including more than 2100% increase in deep fakes over the last few years.
▶ 4:13:10Additionally, social media scams in the US resulted in over 2.1 billion in losses in 2025, largely driven by AI powered tactics and an 800% increase since 2020. In April of 2025, the Pew Research Study Center found that 73% of US adults have experienced some kind of online scam or attack. And most get scam calls, texts, and emails at least weekly. And actually, 73% seems low.
▶ 4:13:39If there's anyone out there who doesn't get these, we'd like all like to know your secrets. The only way to guard against the efficiency and relentless nature of AI fueled cyber attacks is to help financial institutions harness AI, distributed ledger tools, and other emerging technologies for defense.
▶ 4:13:56As my colleagues have described, this bill would task the banking regulators and the FTC with reviewing how these technologies are currently being used by banks and credit unions to detect and prevent financial fraud with a focus on challenges faced by community banks and credit unions. Additionally, regulators would have the discretion to jointly establish a voluntary pilot program to facilitate community bank and credit union access to advanced fraud detection tools.
▶ 4:14:24By increasing coordination and pooling resources among small financial institutions, we can help ensure that tools driving innovation in the strongest defensive measures are tools that can be utilized by large and small financial institutions alike, which is critical for all of us. Finally, I want to thank the staff of both Ranking Member Waters and Chairman Hill for working together to improve this bill through the substitute amendment.
▶ 4:14:48The changes that were made ensure this legislation stays focused on helping small banks and credit unions and also requires that the regulators issue a report following the conclusion of the pilot program, which will be helpful to policymakers in understanding what works best in this program for further action. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 4:15:06The gentleoman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? The g the ranking member is recognized uh to strike the last word.
▶ 4:15:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me start by thanking the sponsors of this bill, Mr. Flood and and Miss Patterson for their bipartisan work to to help our community banks and credit unions prevent fraud. I want to further commend Met who's been a vocal advocate in the fight against fraud in so-called deep fake scams, including through her other bill, the Prevent Deep Fake Scam Act. I want to thank Chairman Hill and his staff who've worked with our side on this on a number of improvements that have been made to the bill.
▶ 4:15:45This bill would require our federal regulators to study how advanced technologies like artificial intelligence, machine learning, and predictive an analytics and more are being used by banks and credit unions to detect and prevent financial fraud. I also support the limited pilot program in this bill to help small community banks and credit unions access the fraud detection tools and better protect their institutions and their customers.
▶ 4:16:11As Miss Patterson pointed out, fraud is on the rise all over this country, particularly against our seniors. And far too many have lost a lot of money, in many cases their life savings to bad actors who defraud them. So, it's not surprising as the president continues to pardon some of these worst fraudsters, even even ones who admitted to ripping off Americans. Committee Democrats have been hard at work on this.
▶ 4:16:34Ranking member Waters introduced the Protect Protecting Consumers from Payment Scams Act, which would modernize our laws to protect consumers who get harmed through these schemes. We need a comprehensive approach to stop this epidemic of fraud, which is being enhanced by AI. I hope my Republican colleagues will join together in supporting this legislation. I'm glad that the bill's sponsor, Mr. Flood, was at least willing to acknowledge that the bank regulators should consult the CFPB in working on this issue.
▶ 4:17:05But again, CFPB needs to play a central role in this fight to combat fraud, combat fraud. I urge my colleagues to support this bill and I yield back my time.
▶ 4:17:16The gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? Gentlemen, Mr. Foster from Illinois is recognized to strike the last word.
▶ 4:17:23Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I support this bill and I thank Reps Flood and Peterson for highlighting the benefits of that uh artificial intelligence, machine learning, and other analytic tools can bring to the fight against fraud. Uh, software costs are also one of the largest expenses that community banks face and it's appropriate to consider the specific obstacles and challenges that they face in adoption of this new anti-fraud technology.
▶ 4:17:48Uh, as our committee continues to work to help small institutions address fraud risks, I hope that we will look beyond just artificial intelligence and towards other tools that can fight fraud, including digital identity technology. We should also consider ways to make the ecosystem as a whole more responsive to new forms of fraud and cyber security risks. Digital identity tools were examined by the Treasury Department as part of its implementation of the Genius Act and determined that they hold great promise.
▶ 4:18:17spec specifically in curbing identity fraud. In 2024, the Fininsen published a report identifying more than 1.6 million suspicious activity reports, SS uh implicating more than 212 billion dollars in transactions as linked to concerns with identity verification. Uh because if you look at almost any kind of fraud, at some point it is identity fraud. And if we can stop the identity fraud, we can we can stop large classes of fraud in its tracks.
▶ 4:18:48U digital identity systems uh significantly increase the confidence that the person you're dealing with is who they claim to be, especially in online transactions that are increasingly becoming an attack vector for scammers. But we do not have to wait uh to take action to address this problem.
▶ 4:19:04Congressman Sessions and I introduced the Stopping Identity Fraud and Identity Theft Act, which would provide money to states that wish to develop their own mobile driver's license systems, which currently underpin identity technology in the United States and where US technology is being adopted by countries all around the world.
▶ 4:19:24When designed properly and used on secure hardware, digital identity tools can preserve privacy by limiting the information shared only to what is necessary to complete a transaction or to fulfill compliance obligations. So, Congress should also work to bring down the cost of software uh for small financial institutions broadly. And one way to do this is to incentivize the development of open-source tools that can be collectively maintained and offered uh to a large number of financial institutions.
▶ 4:19:54uh these would have for example the the as a standard feature the ability to onboard customers using digital driver's licenses to satisfy KYC requirements and if this was a standard feature available for zero cost to small community banks then it would really ease their anti-fraud responsibilities as well open source software can reduce the costs and complexity of adoption coll and collaborative efforts like those for from through banks big and small uh can really spur this development So
▶ 4:20:24I hope to build on this legislation by encouraging larger players in the financial system to share aspects of their systems with these collaborations and to develop standardized software stacks to aid in compliance and anti-fraud prevention. Um well with an appropriate degree of federal support, open source software systems can reduce cost and level the playing field for smaller firms that do not have the resources to develop these systems in house.
▶ 4:20:51I support Congressman Flood's bill and hope that we can continue to work on these issues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
▶ 4:20:59The gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the ANS? I'll recognize myself for five minutes to strike the last word. I support uh and thank our housing insurance subcommittee chairman uh Mr. Flood for his leadership on this legislation as well well as Miss Patterson for her work. Financial fraud and scams in the United States are not just growing. They're rapidly evolving.
▶ 4:21:24Criminal networks today are faster, more coordinated, and more technologically sophisticated than ever before. They're leveraging emerging technologies and crossber schemes to target hardworking American consumers and businesses at an unprecedented scale.
▶ 4:21:43While while most of these scams begin outside the walls of our banks and credit unions through social media, text messages or phone calls, our financial in institutions find themselves on the front lines of this fight. They've stepped up by investing in advanced technology tools like machine learning, real-time monitoring, and behavior analytics.
▶ 4:22:06In a testimony before this committee, one of the community bankers described how some institutions are utilizing AI powered check verification tools to help detect fraudulent checks before losses occur. While these tools are not perfect, they're helping banks stay ahead of the increasingly sophisticated fraud schemes. But for many comm community banks and credit unions, the cost of deploying these technology technologies remains a significant challenge.
▶ 4:22:35Limited resources can make it difficult to determine which tools are most effective and worth the investment. And yet, in today's financial system, these technologies are no longer optional. They're essential. We now live in a world where payments move instantly and fraudsters are using the very latest technologies to stay one step ahead. But policy makers and regulators don't have a full picture of what's working, what challenges remain, and where gaps exist across our financial system.
▶ 4:23:03HR8671 helps close the gap by directing our federal banking regulators along with the NCUA to conduct a comprehensive inter agency study on how advanced technologies are being used to detect and prevent fraud. It also requires regulators to examine the specific challenges facing community banks and credit unions in accessing these tools. High costs, limited access to quality data, and regulatory uncertainty can all stand in the way of widespread adoption.
▶ 4:23:32By identifying these barriers and providing recommendations to address them, we can help ensure that community institutions are not left behind in the fight against fraud. Importantly, the Bank Fraud Technology Advancement Act of 2026 also creates a pathway for action by an auth by by authorizing a pilot program to help community banks and credit unions test and adopt these technologies while fostering better information sharing across the financial system.
▶ 4:24:00It's a thoughtful approach, forward-looking approach, one that equips Congress and our regulators with the insight need to make smarter decisions to promote innovation that fights fights fraud and better protects Americans who we serve. Fraudsters and scammers are not standing still and neither can we. I urge my colleagues to support this legislation and I yield back. Does anyone else seek recognition on the ANS? Hearing none, we'll move to amendments. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment to the ANS?
▶ 4:24:31There being no further discussion and no amendments to the bill, the question now occurs in the adoption of the amendment and the nature of a substitute. All those in favor shall signify by saying
▶ 4:24:40All those opposed to signify by saying nay. The opinion of the chairs, the eyes have it and the amendment is adopted.
▶ 4:24:45Mr. Chair, I would request a recorded
▶ 4:24:51It is withdrawn. The question now occurs on ordering the bill as amendment to be reported to the house with a favorable recommendation. Those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. Those opposed, no. Nay. In the opinion of the chairs, the eyes have it.
▶ 4:25:05Mr. Chairman, now I would request recorded vote.
▶ 4:25:07There we go. For what purposes seek recognition, it's a recorded vote. A recorded vote is requested. All those in favor of recorded vote raise your hand. A sufficient number having raising their hand. A recorded vote is ordered. Pursuant to subsection C5 of rule three of the committee rules, the vote on the question is postponed. Pursuant to the previous order, the chair declares the committee in recess. Subject to the call of the chair. Uh we will uh immediately reconvene following floor votes.
▶ 4:25:37The committee stands in recess.
▶ 5:36:26The committee will reconvene. Before we turn to uh the business at hand, which is voting on the measures that we marked up today in committee, I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Mr. Heropoulos for a point of personal privilege.
▶ 5:36:49Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could just could please everyone's attention if you don't mind. Mr. Chairman and members, before we start today's hearing, I'd like to take a moment to recognize the passing of a former member of Congress, a 16-year member of this very committee, my good friend Bill Posey. We mourn his loss for a person who dedicated their life and he served with integrity, humility, and an unwavering conviction in the idea and belief of America.
▶ 5:37:18Bill served Florida with distinction for decades at both the local, state, and of course the federal levels, including eight terms in the United States Congress. For those of us who knew Bill, his impact reaches well beyond the halls of Congress. He was a tireless champion of Florida's space coast, for America's space program, and for the hardworking families in his community.
▶ 5:37:42Beyond the accomplishments and titles, Bill was simply a good guy, grounded, deeply loyal, and devoted to his family. In fact, he was married to his high school sweetheart for over 60 For those who know him, they know that he really cared about the community and Washington never changed him. My wife Steph and I are heartbroken by his loss.
▶ 5:38:09And our prayers remain with his wife Katie and their two wonderful children, Kathy and Pamela. So, I' I'd ask if it wouldn't be too much for the committee to uh give a moment of silence from our good friend Bill Posey for his incredible public and his devotion to this amazing country that we call America. Members will recognize a moment of silence.
▶ 5:38:43Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 5:38:45Thank you. I'd like to recognize myself for a prompt point of personal privilege as well. I want to thank two staffers who've done an outstanding job for the House Financial Services Committee who are planning on moving to new opportunities and we want to thank them for their service. First, the director of our member services and coalitions team, Dylan Frost.
▶ 5:39:09Give him a wave, I've had the pleasure of knowing my fellow Arcan Dylan Frost for over a decade. He started out in my personal office as a senior legislative assistant and eventually served as deputy chief of staff and my legislative director once I was elected chairman of the committee. I asked Dylan to come over and help lead our member services and coalitions team.
▶ 5:39:37During his time with the committee, Dylan's been an essential part of ensuring that members and staff had the support, coordination, and resources they need to carry out the important work of our committee. While much of the role of member services work takes place behind the scenes, anyone who's worked closely with this committee understands how critical the work is to keep the committee functioning smoothly each and every day.
▶ 5:39:59While we're certainly sorry to see him leave, we're grateful for the service he provided for his time here on the committee and most importantly for the citizens of the second district of Secondly, I'd like to recognize our chief economist and my fellow monetary policy wonk Joey. Joey is watching on television O'Neal. Joey's been a tremendous asset to our task force.
▶ 5:40:23Like any good economist,
▶ 5:40:24yeah, he's too shy to be here during a voting session. uh he's helped lead and drive the work on our task force on monetary policy, treasury market resilience and economic prosperity that Mr. Lucas and Mr. Vargas have worked on so diligently. He's brought his expertise on these issues and strong commitment to public service and everything that he's done.
▶ 5:40:45I want to thank him for his service over the last year and for the steady council that he's provided and for his continue to dedicate be dedicated to a stronger US economy and a stable financial system. We wish him continued success.
▶ 5:40:59Help me congratulate and thank Joey and Dylan, Pursuant to the chair's previous order, we'll now take the postponed votes on the pending amendments to HR 5396. The first question is on the amendment offered by the ranking member, Mrs. Waters. This is HR 53961. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:41:42Aim lower down towards towards the
▶ 5:41:51Yeah. Not yet. There you go. You got it.
▶ 5:41:55Fitz, man.
▶ 5:42:00It's like
▶ 5:42:02in the white. It's over.
▶ 5:42:07Is Emmer down there? No.
▶ 5:42:13I'm Meeks. Mr. Meeks. Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:42:37Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 22 and the nays are 28.
▶ 5:42:41A majority having voted against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. The question now is on the amendment offered by Representative Presley. This is press MA076. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:43:16Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:43:24Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 22 and the nays are 29.
▶ 5:43:28A majority having voted against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. Questions now on the third amendment offered by Representative Presley. This is press MA075. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:44:02Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:44:12Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 20 and the NAS are 31.
▶ 5:44:16Majority having voted against the amendment, the amendment is not agreed to. Questions now on the fourth amendment offered by Representative Presley. This is HR 5396 03. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:44:49Aim it a little lower. See if Right. towards Yeah. towards this clerk.
▶ 5:44:57Yeah. Middle.
▶ 5:45:10There you go. All right.
▶ 5:45:12Is there any member who has not voted would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:45:19Mr. Mr. Chairman, on this vote the eyes are 22 and the nays are 29.
▶ 5:45:24A majority having voted against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. The question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute. All those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no. In the opinion chair, the eyes have it. The eyes have it. And the amendment and the nature of a substitute is adopted. Question now occurs on ordering the bill as amended reported to the house with a favorable recommendation. Those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no.
▶ 5:45:54In the opinion chair, the eyes have it. For what purpose does Representative Stzman seek recognition. A recorded votes requested. All those in favor recorded vote raise your hand. A sufficient number having raised their hand. A recorded vote is ordered. We'll now take the vote on ordering the bill as amended. Favorably reported. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:46:41Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote report.
▶ 5:46:50Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 30 and the NAS are 21.
▶ 5:46:53A majority having voted in favor of HR 5396 as amended. The bill is ordered favorably reported to the House. Without objection, a motion to reconsider is laid on the table. We'll now take the postponed votes on the pending amendment to HR 2978. The question is now on the second amendment offered by ranking member Waters. This is guard amend two. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:47:27There you go. Got it. Is there any member who has not voted
▶ 5:47:48would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:47:54Mr. Chairman, on this vote the eyes are 22 and the nas are 30.
▶ 5:47:57A majority having voted against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. Question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment and the nature of a substitute. All those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no. In the opinion chair, the eyes have it. The eyes have it. And the amendment in the nature of a substitute is adopted. Question now occurs on ordering the bill as amended reported to the house with a favorable recommendation. Those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no.
▶ 5:48:26In the opinion chair, the eyes have it. Mr.
▶ 5:48:31Mr. Nun requests a recorded vote. All those in favor of recorded vote, raise your hands. A sufficient number having raised their hand, a recorded vote is ordered. We'll now take that vote on ordering the bill as amended, favorably reported. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:48:53Oh, good. Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:49:07Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 52 and the NAS are zero.
▶ 5:49:11Majority having voted in favor of HR 2978 as amended. The bill is ordered favorably reported to the House. Without objection, a motion to reconsider is laid on the table. We'll now take the postponed vote on the pending amendments to HR 2155. The questions on the third amendment offered by ranking member Waters to I'm sorry, 2152. Questions on the third amendment offered by ranking member Waters. This is HR 2152 02. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:49:51I say 2155 too many times a year. Sorry. Whole story, right?
▶ 5:49:59Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Stand by for skipper. Okay. Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:50:12Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 22 and the nas are 30. Majority having vote against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. Question now is on the amendment offered by Representative Foster. This is Foster Clerk will open that vote.
▶ 5:50:38Let me know. Is there any member who hasn't voted? Mr. Mr. Green. Okay, he's got it. Good. Is there any member who hasn't voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:51:01Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 52 and the nays are zero.
▶ 5:51:05A majority having voted in favor of the amendment. The amendment is agreed to. The question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment and the nature of a substitute. All those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no. In the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it. The eyes have it and the amendment in the nature of a substitute is adopted. The question now occurs when ordering the bill as amended reported to the house with a favorable recommendation. Those in favor shall signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no.
▶ 5:51:34In the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it. For what purpose does representative nuns seek recognition? Mr. Nun re uh requests a recorded vote. All those in favor recorded vote, raise your hands. A sufficient number having raised their hand. A recorded vote is ordered. We'll now take that vote on ordering the bill. As amended, favorably reported. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:52:12Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:52:20Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 52 and the nays are zero.
▶ 5:52:23A majority having voted in favor of HR 2152 as amended, the bill is ordered favorably reported to the House. Without objection, a motion to reconsider is laid on the table. We will now take the postponed votes on the pending amendments to HR4801. The question on the is on the fourth amendment offered by ranking member Waters. This is HR4801 01. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:53:10Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? The clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:53:28Are we still open? Clerk
▶ 5:53:30still open.
▶ 5:53:31Still open. Vote away. Jims,
▶ 5:53:35vote early, often, and once.
▶ 5:53:47Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 23 and the naysay are 30.
▶ 5:53:51The majority having voted against the amendment, the amendment is not agreed to. The question now is on the amendment offered by Representative Lynch. This is The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:54:16Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:54:23Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 21 and the nays are 32. A majority having vote against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. Question now is on the second amendment offered by Representative Lynch. This is Lynch 060. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:54:56Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:55:04Mr. Chairman, on this vote the eyes are 22 and the NAS are 31.
▶ 5:55:08A majority having vote against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. Question now occurs on the third amendment offered by Representative Lynch. This is Lynch 061. Clerk will open the vote. Is there any member who has not voted or would like
▶ 5:55:38to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:55:44Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 23 and the nays are 30.
▶ 5:55:47A majority having voted against the amendment. The amendment is not agreed to. Question now occurs on the adoption amendment in the nature of a sub in the nature of a substitute. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify by saying no. In the opinion of the chair, the eyes have it. The eyes have it. And the amendment in the nature of a substitute is adopted. Question now occurs on ordering the bill as amended reported to the house with a favorable recommendation. Those in favor shall signify by saying I. I.
▶ 5:56:16All those opposed signify by saying no. In the opinion chair, the eyes have it.
▶ 5:56:21Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote.
▶ 5:56:23Uh, Mr. Style requests a recorded vote. A recorded vote is requested. All in favor, raise your hands. A sufficient number having raised their hands, a recorded vote is so ordered, will now take that vote on ordering the bill as amended. Favorably reported. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:57:03A majority having voted in favor of as amended. The bill is ordered favorably reported to the House. Oh, sorry. Uh, close the vote and report. Sorry, don't distract.
▶ 5:57:15Mr. Chairman, on this vote the eyes are 33 and the NAS are 19.
▶ 5:57:18Thank you. A majority having vote in favor of HR4801 as amended. The bill is ordered favorably reported to the House without objection. Motion reconsider is laid on the table. We now take the vote pinning on ordering HR 8278 as amended. Favorably reported. Members will vote electronically. Clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:57:53Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report.
▶ 5:58:02Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the eyes are 52 and the nays are zero.
▶ 5:58:05A majority having voted in favor of HR8278 is amended. The bill is ordered favorably be reported to the House. Without objection, a motion to reconsider is laid on the table. We'll now take the vote pending on ordering as amended. Favorably reported. Members will vote electronically. The clerk will open the vote.
▶ 5:58:46Is there any member who has not voted or would like to change their vote? Clerk will close the vote and report. Sh. Y'all be quiet. Going out, please. Thank you,
▶ 5:58:57Mr. Chairman. On this vote, the eyes are 52 and the nays are one.
▶ 5:59:00A majority having voted in favor of HR 8671 is amended. The bills ordered favorably reported to the House. Without objection, a motion reconsider laid on the table. Without objection, staff are authorized to make necessary and conforming changes to the bills considered today. And pursuant to House Rule 11, clause 2L, I give notice that all members will have the requisite number of days for supplemental, minority, additional, or dissenting views. There being no further business pending, this committee meeting is