▶ 0:13:46Committee will come to order. Today [clears throat] we close out our FY27 budget and posture hearings with the Department of the Air Force. I want to thank the members for their hard work and dedication as we've worked through the dozens of hearings and briefings necessary to inform our approach to this year's National Defense Authorization Act. I also want to thank the department for their cooperation as we've conducted uh this critical oversight function.
▶ 0:14:14I welcome our witnesses and thank them for their service to our country. Uh for too long we've underfunded defense and now we're seeing the consequences. Our munitions are low and we don't have enough aircraft and autonomous systems to ensure victory over every adversary. There have been unacceptable declines in readiness and our defense industrial base has shrunk and is no longer capable of rapidly scaling production.
▶ 0:14:41That's why I'm so pleased to see the president is requesting a significant increase in the budget for the Air Force and the Space Force. This budget puts an end to the old devest to invest strategy and has done nothing but pit modernization uh against sustainment. The result of several years of that strategy is an air force that suffers today from unacceptably low mission capable rates while it continues to wait on the delivery of modernized assets that are still years away.
▶ 0:15:10This budget includes a 23% increase for operations and maintenance, crucial funding required to better sustain our legacy systems. The budget also invests in modernization with a 54% increase to develop and procure critically needed capabilities. It will enable us to accelerate key deterrent capabilities including Golden Dome, B-21, and Sentinel.
▶ 0:15:34I'm very pleased to see the budget request for Space Force, which recognizes its growing importance as a warfighting domain. It enables the Space Force to increase its support to joint force and our combatant commanders, and it funds new mission areas like defending our space assets and breaking red kill chains. We cannot afford to be complacent when it comes to developing our capabilities in space. Our adversaries are well aware of the importance of space-based capabilities and the advantages they provide.
▶ 0:16:05I also want to highlight the increase uh in in this request for munitions and industrial base. These funding areas are especially critical to restoring American deterrence. We began some of that work last year with funds in reconciliation and the multi-year authority in the NDAA. I hope to hear about the Air Force's progress in implementing that authority and increasing production.
▶ 0:16:30Finally, I want to hear uh how you plan to use the acquisition authorities given to you uh by this committee to make sure that that money is uh in the in the request will be well spent and uh accelerate capable capabilities to the war fighters. As we have seen recently in operation epic fury and operation uh absolute resolve, our air and space forces are central to the success of the joint force and our national security.
▶ 0:16:57Their personnel capabilities and readiness are crucial to our ability to prevail in conflicts of today and deter our adversaries moving forward. I look forward to working with my colleagues to deliver a budget that will enable our airmen and guardians to continue to successfully fulfill their missions. Before I close, I'd like to thank General Saltzman for his uh many years of dedicated service and congratulate you on your upcoming retirement.
▶ 0:17:26With that, I yield to my friend, the ranking member, for any opening statement he may have.
▶ 0:17:30Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I'll start where you end it off and thank General Saltzman for his service. He's been our Space Force uh chief of staff at a very crucial time. Sort of the growing of of the Space Force and your leadership has been just incredible um in fighting through those challenges. Hasn't always been easy. Uh but I think you've put the Space Force on a very good path and of course be remiss if I didn't thank the chairman and uh former representative Jim Cooper for their leadership in creating the Space Force in the first place.
▶ 0:17:56Um the theme of posture hearings has been really a continuation of the acquisition reform bill that we did last year. What we're really interested in is innovate faster at scale. How do we get there? The the chairman's right. We have critical shortages in munitions and capabilities. So how do we figure out how to innovate faster and get to scale on that? And the air force and the space force are crucial to that. Obviously the space force is the centerpiece of a lot of that innovation.
▶ 0:18:25Um, secure communications is crucial. Space is going to be a huge part of that. It's also becoming an incredibly important domain in order to project power and be able to defend our space assets as we know. So, we want to learn more about how Space Force is fitting into that. And then on the Air Force side, unmanned aerial vehicles are becoming more and more capable, more and more crucial to what we're doing.
▶ 0:18:50um how does that mix with our plans for the F-47 and fighter aircraft in general. So I want want to know how we're learning from that. Um on the Golden Dome piece, I think the technology that goes into Golden Dome is we were doing it already. I mean basic missile defense is crucial. Space is going to be a key part of missile defense.
▶ 0:19:11My concern on Golden Dome is that we envision some perfect system um to perfectly protect the entire United States of America and we wind up spending ourselves into the ground trying to accomplish something that at the end of the day is unachievable. Um even Israel for all of their capability protecting a tiny little small space. Um some missiles get through.
▶ 0:19:31So, how are we going to build the systems that don't make the perfect the enemy of the good that enhance our capability in terms of missile defense and protecting areas but don't imagine something that really isn't achievable and that sort of comes down to the last point and this is the I think probably the only point of disagreement that I have with the chairman and that's that's on the budget. Um yeah, if we had more money things would be better. Um and you could walk through the entire government and make that statement. You know, we have I don't know how many tens of millions of people without health insurance in this country.
▶ 0:20:01We have an education system that isn't where it needs to be. We have a very aging infrastructure. Um certainly roads and bridges and airports, but water and sewer and all manner of different things. And many of those things are way behind as well. We also have our debt at over 100% of GDP. I think for only the second time uh since the end of World War II, we do not have an infinite amount of resources.
▶ 0:20:26um and imagining that we do, I think, gets us into a real problem of trying to do more than we're capable of just in general. Um even if we were doing it. Um but it also, you know, is just unrealistic given where the budget is at. So I'll close, you know, with my second point, which was innovate faster at scale. What I'm interested in, how can that achieve our objectives in a more cost-effective manner?
▶ 0:20:54Because as frustrating as it is not to just be able to have as much resources as you want, that's the world we live in. So, we have to figure out how can we build the systems, how can we find systems that give us advantage. We've seen that in our counter drone mission. You know, there was a I was reading an article today critical of the Pentagon for, you know, the classic shooting down a $30,000 drone, you know, with a $3 million missile. But now we have a $15,000 system, the MIROP system that's doing the same thing. We innovated. We got to something that got achieved it.
▶ 0:21:24And and how much money is that saving us? That enables us to do more and meet our national security needs. So I hope we'll hear about that as well. And with that, I yield back. Uh thank thank the ranking member. Now I'll introduce our witnesses. Um first we have the honorable Troy Mink, Secretary of the Air Force. Uh, General Kenneth Wilsbach is the Air Force Chief of Staff and General Chance Saltzman, Chief of Space Operations for the Space Force. Welcome to all of our witnesses. Secretary Mink, we'll start with you. You're recognized.
▶ 0:21:54Uh, thank you, Chairman Rogers, uh, Recking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to come down and walk through the FY27 Department of the Air Force's budget request. I'm proud to represent the 680,000 airmen, guardians, and civilians of the Department of the Air Force, as well as their families and loved ones. After the events of the past year, Operation Met Hammer, Absolute Resolve, and now Epic Fury, I don't think there's any doubt that the Air Force and Space Force are the most capable in the world.
▶ 0:22:24But today, we are in the middle of a generational shift in how we employ air and space power. Advances in autonomy, adaptive manufacturing, AI, micro electronics, and more give us a unique opportunity to drive down cost and drive up effectiveness across the board. However, our adversaries recognize that opportunity every bit as much as we do. Those adversaries, particularly China, are modernizing at a very rapid pace.
▶ 0:22:53To stay ahead, we must innovate faster in everything we do. That means staying ready not just to fight tonight, but next month, next year, and next decade. Unfortunately, over the past 25 years, the DAFF's budget has been the smallest relative to GDP in its history. At the same time, the nation has asked more of it. To meet its mission's need, the DAFF was forced to short change both foundational readiness and muchneeded modernization.
▶ 0:23:21The fiscal year 2027 president's budgets breaks that pattern with a $338.8 billion request for the DAFF, a 34% increase from last year. I'll start with our investment to win the fight tonight. Foundational readiness. Boosting readiness requires increased and stable funding, particularly given the age of many of our platforms.
▶ 0:23:44The FY27 budget increases our foundational readiness investment by Providing the jump needed to truly recover. We're also looking at ways to operate more efficiently by accelerating decision-making, reducing barriers to entry for industry, and leveraging innovative contract structures. The Dasolene budget over the years has also resulted in a $50 billion facilities maintenance backlog.
▶ 0:24:10This is compounded by the way we have traditionally done milcon which results in costs more than double that of the commercial world. To reverse this, the FY727 budget request nearly doubles investments in both Milcon and facilities sustainment, restoration, and modernization, which we will couple with new authorities we've gotten from Congress. Thank you. Such as progressive design bill. Second, production, particularly munitions.
▶ 0:24:38While we retain enough munitions worldwide to meet mission mission needs, we need strong factory lines to sustain and bolster our stockpiles. Therefore, this budget leverages existing commercial production capacity and takes full advantage of multi-year procurement for our most critical munitions, totaling 39,000 weapons of all types by We are also developing weapons almost as capable as our higher munitions, but at a fraction of the cost
▶ 0:25:08with much higher production rates. I'll also note that while money in this request is essential, time is one of our most precious resources and the department will focus on companies that can quickly scale production while still broadening the industry base to ensure competition in the future. That leads me to number three, The DAFF is currently engaged in the broadest program of modernization in its history.
▶ 0:25:35While not every has gone perfect, we have already seen a lot of successes with the new proliferated space architectures, the collaborative combat aircraft, F-47, B-21, and our command and control and battle management systems. The FY27 budget request accelerates those successes and applies lessons learned from across the board. To that end, we are transforming our acquisition system.
▶ 0:26:00We are empowering our new portfolio acquisition executives or PAEEs and their teams with the authorities, resources, and talent they need to accelerate capability delivery. We have ne we have delegated nearly every authority we are legally allowed down to the PAE. We are realigning portfolios to match mission outcomes.
▶ 0:26:22Our end state is all DAFF acquisitions align in the PE structure to ensure consistent, simplified, and rapid decision-making across the Space Force and Air Force. Finally, our most decisive advantage remains our people, the airmen and guardians who make everything possible. This budget invests in them.
▶ 0:26:43That includes a 5 to 7% pay raise for the military, larger bonus pools to incentivize high performing civilians, increases to military end strength, and a 300% increase in dormatory In conclusion, this budget represents a disciplined strategy to meet our threats. While FY27 does represent a major increase in our budget, we are ready to execute that budget.
▶ 0:27:09Much of the new funding will accelerate mature programs with established contracts. Regardless of the final total, we will remain accountable and transparent to Congress and the American taxpayers. Thank you, and I look forward to your
▶ 0:27:24Thank you, Mr. Secretary. General Wilsbach, you're recognized.
▶ 0:27:27Good morning, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. I'm proud to represent total force airmen serving our nation. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and I and to and for your continued support for airmen and their families. The United States Air Force exists to provide the nation with decisive options at both speed and scale.
▶ 0:27:51Every day, our airmen deliver that capability by controlling the air, holding targets at risk, moving forces and supplies around the globe, and underpinning the joint force with these combined efforts. As illustrated in recent operations such as Operations Midnight Hammer, Absolute Resolve, and Epic Fury, they do it professionally and without pause. We operate in an environment where distance no longer guarantees sanctuary.
▶ 0:28:17Networks are contested and adversaries are fielding capabilities specifically designed to deny us the advantages we have relied upon before. The reality drives us to our focus and that is readiness, modernization, and taking care of airmen and families. Readiness is the ability to generate combat power quickly, operate in contested environments, and sustain operations over time.
▶ 0:28:44Today, our airmen are meeting the mission by doing that while maintaining uh significant strain. We are flying aircraft that in many cases are older than airmen who maintain them. We are operating at a high ops tempo across multiple theaters and doing so while preparing to be ready for any future conflict.
▶ 0:29:05Our fiscal year 2027 budget requests prioritizes restoring depth in our force by increasing funding for flying hours, munitions, maintenance, and advanced training that reflects the reality of today and tomorrow's fight. Weapon system sustainment funding increased to over $ 24 billion and 12 billion for flying hours. We are focused on readiness that continues to remain credible and can deliver effects.
▶ 0:29:36Modernization is not only about replacing old platforms with new ones, but evolving how we fight. Speed, survivability, and decision advantage will define future conflict. It requires a force that is more connected and adaptable. To this end, we are increasing our research and development funding by 27% to over 57 billion.
▶ 0:30:00The 57 or sorry, the fiscal year 2027 budget request will accelerate our modernization programs. We are advancing the F-47 and collaborative combat aircraft to increase combat mass and complicate adversary targeting. We are upgrading our current fighter fleet to ensure it remains viable while also investing in long range strike, advanced munitions, and resilient command and control. Additionally, our nuclear enterprise remains foundational.
▶ 0:30:30Investments now will sustain the modernization of the Triad through the Sentinel B-21 and upgrades to the B-52 as well as the E4B. These capabilities ensure our deterrence remains credible and ready. Third is taking care of airmen and families. We ask a lot of our people. Frequent moves and operational stress take a toll. Our Air Force continues to invest in improving options for health care, child care, and spouse employment.
▶ 0:31:00Therefore, our budget request strengthens quality of life. We are executing the largest investment in our dormitories in over a decade of $2.7 billion in FSRM and $330 million in Milcon for a total of three billion.
▶ 0:31:17We are looking for solutions to meet the housing needs of our families with a request of 1.3 billion while funding new construction projects to address child care capacity by adding more than 1,700 child care spaces. The Air Force exists to be the best possible fighting force for our nation. We are building a force that can operate under pressure and deliver effects anywhere in the world.
▶ 0:31:42That requires sustained investment, disciplined choices, and an unwavering focus on our people. With your support, we will ensure they have the tools, training, and the backing they need. Thank you, and I look forward to your
▶ 0:31:58Thank you, General Salsman, you're recognized. Thank you, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, distinguished members of the committee, and thank you for your support for the Space Force and our nation's guardians. As the past year has demonstrated, space is more vital than ever to our economic prosperity, our national security, and the effectiveness of the joint force. However, our adversaries are constantly working to take away our military and economic advantages in the space domain. To defend our nation's interest in space, the Space Force must do more than grow.
▶ 0:32:27We must evolve to meet the challenges of the new era. To that end, the FY27's budget's landmark investment of 71.1 billion for the Space Force represents a generational opportunity to position the force to meet the rapidly expanding threats and the demands of the nation. I know some of the budget percentage increases being considered sound big, but let me put those numbers in context. There are at least 25 individual military installations inside the United States that each have more personnel than the entire Space Force.
▶ 0:32:58And the top 10 of those installations are at least twice the size of our service. The Space Force's budget, in comparison to other services, will still be less than 5% of our nation's total military spending, an extraordinary value in return on investment for the nation. That investment is a critical down payment to meet the accelerating demands on the service. In 2025, the Space Force saw a drastic increase in mission requirements across space access, global mission operations, and space control.
▶ 0:33:27And this trend shows no signs of slowing. To position the service for this mission growth and inform our future needs, the Space Force has been working hard to define what we believe our future operating environment will look like over the next 15 years. And then based on that, we designed our objective force structure, which will provide a vector for our services investments to meet the nation's expanding needs and defeat future threats. That analysis makes it clear the space force we have today is not the space force we will need for the future.
▶ 0:33:57Increases in the service budget and in strength are a national security imperative. That is why the FY27 budget boosts our top line by 130% and strength by 27%. The proposed budget paired with the increase in in strength will allow the Space Force to recruit and train the guardians we need, build vital space capabilities for the joint force in the nation, and provide the support and infrastructure that the mission growth demands.
▶ 0:34:21Today, we are deliberately building a cadre of space-minded war fighters equipped with the skills required in an increasingly contested and evolving domain. We are preparing our guardian officers to seamlessly integrate with the joint force. We are bolstering the development of our enlisted force to ensure they become technical space war fighting experts. And we are developing our civilian guardians so that they can best provide the unique expertise, ensure continu continuity of operations and bring a depth of support across the mission sets.
▶ 0:34:48In order to execute all of our expanding missions, it is imperative that we responsibly and effectively convert this increased appropriation into combat capability and warfighting advantage. Unlike other services, the majority of our budget, nearly twothirds, is dedicated to developing and fielding new systems instead of personnel or operations and maintenance. That is why the Space Force is so focused on taking advantage of this once in a generation opportunity to enhance our acquisition processes.
▶ 0:35:15All with the goal of accelerating the fielding of vital combat space systems at the speed and scale required for each mission. To that end, newly empowered portfolio acquisition executives are positioned to make better, faster program trades, expediting our ability to deliver combat credible systems on operationally relevant timelines. We're simplifying our approach to requirements, bolstering our relationship with industry and allies, and ensuring our vital guardian workforce is expertly trained in the complex task of acquisitions.
▶ 0:35:47Unlike other services that are modernizing existing systems, the Space Force cannot modernize what it does not have. We are creating some of these innovative capabilities for new missions from the ground up, particularly in space control, where we are investing in all categories of counterpace systems necessary to deter and defeat aggression in space. Additionally, we are aggressively pursuing more resilient space architectures that can withstand attacks and continue to operate through extended conflict.
▶ 0:36:13This includes expanding our resilient missile warning and tracking initiative that provides life-saving alert to troops worldwide and enhancing satellite communications to connect joint force units and commanders around the globe during battle. We are growing our space-based sensing and targeting arch architecture to hold adversary forces at risk through space-based AMTI and GMTI anywhere in the world. But the added manpower and missions and capabilities require commensurate increases to the structures that support them.
▶ 0:36:39So the FY27 budget request also includes the required milcon to ensure our guardians are fully supported. The Space Force has laid the organizational foundation, defined the compounding threat, and delivered the blueprint required to counter it. Now we must build those structures and systems to ensure domain superiority for years to come. Although our growth request looks large in a vacuum, the request is actually quite small relative to the overall budget. And I think this payoff is significant.
▶ 0:37:05With continued advocacy for from Congress, our guardians stand ready to deter aggression, protect our space enabled way of life, and have called upon fight and win. As I conclude my final presentation to this committee as the Cso, let me say thank you for enabling our successes and for the opportunity to highlight the exceptional work that our guardians are doing every day to secure our nation's interests in, from, and to space. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:37:29Great. Thank all of you for those opening statements. I'll recognize myself first for questions. Uh Mr. Secretary, I want to start with the area that you touched on and and General Saltzman just spent the last two minutes of his comments on that is acquisition. I was obviously pleased to see the significant increase in the space force budget. U as this service has matured, it needs those increased uh resources to operate in space and support the joint uh force.
▶ 0:37:58Uh but to make sure that every dollar is spent effectively, the service must be laser focused on acquisition efficiency. To that end, uh as you are implementing the reforms passed by this committee and mandated uh by the department, are there any legislative changes you still need from Congress to further improve acquisition efficiency?
▶ 0:38:20Uh thank you chairman. Uh appreciate the question. Yeah. So, as I stated in my opening comments, the end state is we want the PAE structure we have, the port uh portfolio acquisition executive structure we have to have essentially the same authorities and same responsibilities across the entire Air Force similar authorities that that we're given into the legislation to SDA and some others. Uh so we would like to actually take all the acquisitions whether it's SDA or any place else and put them all into a common PA structure and we're looking for a little help to be able to do that.
▶ 0:38:49uh because in the
▶ 0:38:50do you have some language in mind that you want to tender to us?
▶ 0:38:53We can we can provide that.
▶ 0:38:54I would appreciate provide that. Uh essentially what we want to do is give the same level of flexibility to operate at speed and deliver capability rapidly uh to all the PAEs across both the air force and the space force. Um so we're looking to do that. Uh in addition, I think there are some additional authorities relative to uh multi-year procurement and those sorts of things that will make it easier for us to execute those those types of authorities and and I think we're looking at uh potential language to suggest on that too.
▶ 0:39:23But uh those are probably the two big things.
▶ 0:39:24Great. Well, I would I would offer to you that one of the things that I've heard uh from the private sector is they like the new PAE system, but they are encountering while there's good support at the top where the PAE is in the bowels of the worker bees, there's still a culture that's requirements focused and hasn't broken away from that. So, I would ask you to be mindful of that as we mature that new structure.
▶ 0:39:51if I could, if I could, Mr. Go, if I could, Mr. Chairman, on that. Yeah, I was out at uh out talking to I think probably about twothirds of the of the Space Force's PAEs last week and that that was a concern of those two is how we manage that requirements process. So, we're doing a lot to structure the PAES and give them the authorities, but in line with that, we're also looking at how we do budgeting and requirements uh the budgeting requirements process within the department to streamline that as well to get at that point.
▶ 0:40:18Yeah, fewer requirements the better. Um, next I want to ask you about uh how the air force has implemented DURPAM uh structure and is ensuring that General White is able to execute on his direction to deliver critical capabilities such as S sent Sentinel with emergency
▶ 0:40:36I feel a bit fortunate in that both the derpins we work closely with General White and and General Gutline two of the Derpins are two of the best acquisition officers we have in both the Air Force and the Space Force. So I'm pretty happy about that because they are in both cases uh responsible for some of the most important programs uh that the department of the air force has not just Sentinel but at 47 21 B21. Uh so it's critically important that we have a tight relationship with them and we do I made sure that Dale sits like 100 paces from my office.
▶ 0:41:07Uh I meet with them regularly to make sure that that we are tightly coupled. he's getting everything he needs and that he's delivering what the department needs to execute mission in the future. So, I think it's working
▶ 0:41:19Great. General Wilsbach, I'm a big proponent of unmanned platforms and u I'm I'm interested speaking of the F-47. I I like that we're moving to the sixth generation fighter. When are we going to make the next leap to optionally manned or remotely manned uh tactical fighters?
▶ 0:41:39Uh thanks, chairman. I'm a fan of unmanned as well. Uh, in fact, for Epic Fury, um, perhaps maybe the most valuable player was unmanned and, uh, they've, uh, this MQ9. And so, we've they made many many strikes. I don't want to say how many because it's the numbers classified, but uh, no one's no other platform is even close to the MQ9, which is is [clears throat] an unmanned platform. Uh so we get a lot of utility out of them and don't put our our folks in risk at risk.
▶ 0:42:10uh we're probably not quite at the uh at the state of autonomy where we can completely replace the entire force um or even the fighter force um with with unmanned and as as we bring on collaborative combat aircraft um and we integrate it with the F-47 and F22 and F-35 to begin with um there's still some level of human interaction to task that automated platform um there's enough artificial intelligence and machine learning learning inside
▶ 0:42:40of the collaborative combat aircraft to once you give it a tasking for example go attack this series of targets it can go do that with the tactics techniques and procedures that are inserted in the software but you still need a human to make those sorts of decisions we're not quite there yet
▶ 0:42:58well and that's why I said remotely operated it keeps the human in the loop but we don't have to have a person in the in the fighter
▶ 0:43:05sure and so we're we're we're realizing that already u with our already unmanned platform. CCA will expand that to a degree because for example the the MQ9 doesn't really have autonomy. It's remote. CCA will have autonomy.
▶ 0:43:22Uh and I've actually had a chance to operate the software in the simulator. Um it's very intuitive. Um, it's highly capable and we are going to be able to put extreme pressure on any adversary that would go up against us with F-47, F22 or F-35 and in combination with the CCA because not only will we have that automation and not put our folks at risk. Um, it it also increases the mass that the adversary has to deal with.
▶ 0:43:51Well, I I I just I'll leave it at this. We have to start thinking about that remotely operated fighter jet. Um, in part because we want to not have to put it fighter pilot at risk, but the technology already exists. We're demonstrating it at present. Um, but the cost of these platforms is is reduced dramatically if you don't have to accommodate a human being.
▶ 0:44:18And I just want, you know, getting to the ranking members point about we got to start thinking smart about spending money. I just want us to start thinking about it. And with that, I will yield to uh Mr. Carbajal for any questions he may have.
▶ 0:44:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. General Saltzman, I understand you're retiring after 34 years of service in the military. I want to thank you for your service, for your distinguished service, and for your leadership and strengthening our nation's space force. You have served ad admirably, and I've really enjoyed working with you. Best wishes.
▶ 0:44:54Maybe now you could go back to my district and enjoy some of that those good libations that we have also known as Central Coast wine. So hope you can visit. Vanderberg Space Force Base is the second busiest spaceport in the world. SpaceX and Firefly already have active pads. ULA will soon be will soon launch from there again. and Blue Origin is in the early stages of building a slick.
▶ 0:45:22The boat dock on the south base is a critical piece to the launch infrastructure at Vandenberg, but it is too small to accommodate the larger launch vehicles that will soon be launching from the base. I know this will be an expensive and complex project. My understanding is that this is scheduled to be in fiscal year 2032, but I think that is too far away and will stagnate launch growth out of the western range.
▶ 0:45:50General Saltzman, can you explain this project, the projected timeline, and what we can do to move up that timeline?
▶ 0:45:58Thank you, Congressman, and I do look forward to maybe getting back out to the central coast uh for the libations. Um when I was stationed out there just about 12 years ago, we did seven launches. Uh last year we did 71 launches. We're projecting 175 launches is what our goal is ultimately for the capacity we have at Vandenberg. We can't do that without uh enhancements to that port facility. So it's it's high on our priority list to make sure that we can meet the launch tempo that's required out there.
▶ 0:46:26Um FY32 is where it's programmed in just because we think that may be what it takes to go through all the process and you know all those processes that have to be put in place to do the kind of work that's necessary out there. Uh but it is a $650 million project. So this is not an inconsequential adjustment out there. Uh look forward to working with the entire Central Coast Commission uh out there as well as you and others to we would love to accelerate that. Uh but it's it's it's not an uncomplicated process and an important one.
▶ 0:46:56Thank you. The most recent NDAA included section 1607 which requires a study on the feasibility and advisability of establishing TAC SRT as a program of record. Secretary Mink and General Saltzman, can you give me an update on where that study is or any preliminary
▶ 0:47:19Thank you, Congressman. So TAC SRT is is I think one of the success stories of the last three years. Uh we basically are leveraging commercial capabilities on orbit to to augment and complement the the tremendous ISR capabilities that uh come from the country. Um we've increased funding uh over time uh to as the demand has grown. Last year alone there were 445 requests. We provided over 500 products. Some of those at unclassified levels, most of those at the unclassified levels to support operations.
▶ 0:47:49Um, we've merged the the marketplace that delivers those capabilities into our commercial space office where they have access to about 168 million uh in order to adjust and and increase the commercial marketplace for the combatant command demand signal. So, I'm very comfortable that we're we're providing the services that the combatant commands need. Uh, if if there was any period where this was demonstrating success, we have demonstrated that success and now it's probably time to figure out how we formalize TAC SRT as a mission area.
▶ 0:48:20Thank you. The requirements for launch to high energy orbits like Mio and GEO will likely increase over the coming years. Historically, all launches to GEO have been on heavy launch vehicles and since national security space launch phase three began. All have been in lane two with the highest levels of mission assurance. There are some new capabilities coming online that will offer creative approaches to reach GEO.
▶ 0:48:47General Saltzman, do all satellites going to GEO need that highest level of mission assurance that lane 2 launches require? And could some direct to GEO launches come through NSSL lane one once there are providers on boarded that can reach that orbit especially if they could offer lower cost per launch per
▶ 0:49:10Well, some of the most critical uh satellites that we put on orbit go to geocynchronous orbit. They have to last for a long time. we overengineer them. So mission assurance in the launch process I is is vital to making sure that we get the most out of those satellites we put into geocynchronous orbit. Uh we are always open to improving the efficiency of putting uh capability on orbit. Uh but we don't want to jeopardize mission assurance. Uh that's going to be first and foremost to maintain our effectiveness on orbit.
▶ 0:49:37But it is worth looking at what what are the options to make sure that we can balance those competing requirements. If I could just add, I know we're out of time, but I just add quickly that there are a number of companies, some of these smaller commercial companies developing what we'd refer to as a third stage or an upper stage that actually allows uh the kind of the the the traditional LEO or or or medium class launch vehicles uh to put much larger payloads in the higher higher energy orbits, GEO or or MO.
▶ 0:50:07Um, Impulse is one of them, but there's another number of companies that are looking at doing that which could really give a lot of flexibility to our launch infrastructure.
▶ 0:50:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Time I yield back. Gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson's recognized.
▶ 0:50:19Thank you very much, Chairman Mike Rogers. And I want to congratulate the chairman for his vision for Space Force. Uh, and now, hey, uh, he's ahead of the curve. Now, autonomous air vehicles. I I he just won't stop. And this is good. Uh with that in mind, uh as the son of a flying tiger of, uh World War II who served in India and China, I especially appreciate your professionalism.
▶ 0:50:45In 2003, I was on a delegation led by Chairman Kurt Weldon to Beijing where we met the president Jen Kmen in the presidential compound. When I was introduced as a member of Congress, he yawned. But when it was added that I was the son of a flying tiger, he correctly threw his arms up in the air and announced that the American military is revered in China at that time.
▶ 0:51:06And I'm sure ultimately again with the successful operations that have helped bring down the brutal dictatorships of dictator Assad in Syria and dictator Maduro and Venezuela. the extraordinary performance against the dictatorship in Thran through operation epic fury, eliminating dictator Kmeni as the in the first minute of a conflict uh to join the 40,000 people Iranians that he had murdered this year alone
▶ 0:51:37as we face the uh growing situation of threats from the Chinese Communist Party, war and Putin, Iran, North Korea and other adversaries. We must ensure that the American military remains dominant to to maintain peace through strength and to deter and particularly war criminal Putin who wants to recreate resurrect the failed Soviet Union as he has annexed Barus. He has invaded Ukraine.
▶ 0:52:05Of course, he maintains troops in Malddova and he's invaded uh Georgia and rigged the elections in Georgia uh and uh so sadly that the correct president is Salomi Zorilli. But over and over again, uh, we can provide with your efforts peace through strength. With that in mind, General Wilsbach, as the Air Force recapizes its airfleet, I support the Air National Guard.
▶ 0:52:29The South Carolina Air National Guard was the tip of the spear as part of the first military aircraft operating over Iran during Operation Epic Fury, demonstrating exceptional skill and professionalism while flying legacy F-16s. It's reminder that the guard is not just homeland defense but can achieve around the world.
▶ 0:52:50I am particularly appreciative that McIntyre joint air base of Easttover has uh this morning at 1223 been added by redistricting South Carolina to the district that I will be fortunate to run in. With that in mind, the Air Force modernizes its fleet. What is the plan to recapitalize Air National Guard units like the South Carolina Air National Guard so they're not left flying aging air platforms while provi providing active duty units uh the newer
▶ 0:53:22Yeah, thanks Congressman. Uh I'm I'm also a fan of the McIntyre unit. I've flown with them a number of times over the years. It's it's always been I mean I've been in the Air Force 40 years and it's always been a really top-notch unit. Uh so thank you for your support. I I forgot to say also pick up show air force base. I I I the map is just 12 hours old. So this is good. Thank you
▶ 0:53:44You bet. But
▶ 0:53:44so I've got to be nice to y'all. Thank you. [laughter]
▶ 0:53:47Thank you. Uh thank you. No, we we uh we do wish to capitalize recapitalize, you know, all of the the aging infrastructure, not just in the Air National Guard, but it's true of the active duty as as well as the Air Force Reserve and and our modernization plan for 27 um incorporates um the Air National Guard and uh and as a matter of fact um even McIntyre is is a candidate for a future F-35 base.
▶ 0:54:17We haven't the secretary hasn't decided yet on that, but they're certainly a candidate and we we look forward to that competition
▶ 0:54:25and thank you very much and indeed General Salsman, best wishes on your retirement. I'm grateful that my nephew Alan Heritage has the privilege to work with all of you. With that in mind, it's encouraging too to see that uh there's effort to procure commercial imagery. What's the status of doing that for to promote your efforts? Yes sir.
▶ 0:54:47We're investing in as I mentioned the commercial space office uh has a portfolio to uh have to build a marketplace for all the commercial imagery providers and we do that under our attack SRT programs uh surveillance reconnaissance and and tracking. Uh and we've seen over 500 products produced just over the last year for combat
▶ 0:55:04and indeed I don't have more time but I I want to point out we can learn uh real world conflict from our Israeli friends and the success of victory for people in Ukraine. Thank you.
▶ 0:55:15Gentlemen, yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from California, Mr. Gary Mindy.
▶ 0:55:21Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary, and General Wilsbeck and General Saltzman. Thank you for being here. Before I begin, I want to acknowledge the six airmen that we lost in the KC 135 crash over Iraq on March the 12th. Also want to thank the airmen at Travis and across the Air Mobility Command and throughout the Air Force who have carried out extraordinary share of the flight of the fight in Iran. Well done.
▶ 0:55:49For years, we've heard about the Air Force programs exquisite systems that bring us into the modern area. But from Europe to the Middle East, we see time and again small distributive systems and reliable platforms have outsized impact while exquisite systems make exquisite targets for our General Wilsback, you spoke very when you answered the chairman's question about UAS's and
▶ 0:56:19their future. your budget doesn't follow that passion. Looks like you have one point 1.4 billion for CCAs. You have 7.4 billion for the F-35s, most of whom will be delivered unable to have necessary equipment like radars and you have five billion for the new F-47.
▶ 0:56:48I grew up on a ranch and I remember at the uh cattle sales all talk, no cattle, put your money where your mouth is. Apparently, uh your passion for new platforms uh doesn't quite match. So, uh let's get some detail here. What exactly, not now, but in writing, please deliver to us exactly how you're going to spend the 1.4 billion for CCAs.
▶ 0:57:17Is it only CCAs or is it other kinds of uh uh UAS's? Please deliver that. And let's get down to the detail here. With regard to the F-35s, uh yeah, you're going to have 39 new ones. Many of your old ones, in fact, all of your old ones do not meet the requirements for readiness. What are you doing about that? Some of that has to do with the right to repair.
▶ 0:57:42Some of it has to do with um necessary equipment, standing by, all of which is deficient. So, how are you going to deal with that? Please, in writing to the committee, get down to the details. Nice oversight, overview. It's interesting, but you operate in details as do your men and their equipment. We need the details, okay? Particularly on the readiness side of it.
▶ 0:58:09Um my colleague who has now left for a few moments said you're going to talk about the Sentinel, aren't you? Mr. Salsman, I know you're going to retire. We wish you the best, but are going away. Why the We are now developing and actually following Russia in the development of hypersonic cruise missiles that are maneuverable for which at the moment there's no defense.
▶ 0:58:36That platform is being developed and provides yet another alternative to the sitting duck Minute Man 3 and its follow-up Sentinel. Why deterrence? Please, let's get real here. The Sent the Minute Man 3 will be able to be um reconditioned and available for the next 20 years.
▶ 0:59:03Why are we spending in this budget money $5 billion for the So questions, please deliver in writing the answer to that question. The deterrence, the new platforms, the um cruise the maneuverable hypersonic cruise missile, a new uh platform that can and probably will be nuclear. So why? I want to have the detail here.
▶ 0:59:32I don't have time in this committee hearing to get into the detail, but I want you to deliver to this committee and specifically to the readiness committee um the detail on why we're doing this and what and the amount of money that you're spending on the uh upgrade and the maintenance of the how long you intend to do it. Okay, so these are the details about which we have to go.
▶ 0:59:57Finally, in 19 seconds, Travis Air Force Base is limited 50% for the lack of a taxi runway, a taxi way. Why not across this thing put in place a taxi runway that would increase the throughput at Travis Air Force Base by 50%.
▶ 1:00:24Gentleman's time's expired. Excellent point though. Gentleman from Ohio is recognized. Mr. Turner.
▶ 1:00:31Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Mr. Secretary, uh the operations of Epic Fury, Midnight Hammer, Southern Spear continue to demonstrate the importance of the work that you do. Um Mr. [clears throat] Secretary, um I everybody would be disappointed if I didn't highlight that uh your career includes experience at NASK and Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Uh but uh even more than your experience, we are all very thankful uh for your leadership.
▶ 1:00:56General Saltzman, I want to also uh join everyone in thanking you for your leadership and your almost four years of service to Space Force and uh congratulate you on your upcoming retirement. I think this is an excellent time for us to get your wisdom. Um the chairman is very proud of the um performance of Space Force and the data shows that Space Force has performed incredibly.
▶ 1:01:18Space Force's increased launches from an average of about 24 per year prior to 2018 to almost 200 by the end of the year, demonstrated tactical responsiveness, successfully getting satellites from warehouses into orbit within 96 hours of demonstrating that. Shown its uh rapidly acquired new technology demonstrated by its successful fielding of counter satcom capabilities.
▶ 1:01:43Within 48 hours of identifying the requirements, Space Force has successfully integrated into the joint force globally, standing up service components at all geographic combat commands, continues to surpass recruiting and retention goals.
▶ 1:01:58Space Force by your own accounting has um created nearly two billion in private funding over five years in direct support for military Looking back and now looking forward, what would with your wisdom, where is Space Force on the right track? Where do we have some work to do? And what should Congress do
▶ 1:02:20in three minutes? Uh, thank you, sir. I No, I I I very much appreciate that and and and to the work of the chairman and the ranking and the entire committee. I think the Space Force is on a good path. I really do. Uh one of the success stories that I point to routinely is I I believe we've uh and I've gotten feedback from industry on this that we have shifted the the nature of the relationships we have with industry. It was very transactional.
▶ 1:02:42Uh we would throw requirements kind of over the transom and and hope that they would deliver something back and we would go through testing and and generally be happy with some of it and not happy with other parts of it. Uh that that's just not going to work going in the future. It's certainly not going to work at the speed and the scale that we need these capabilities delivered. So we're we're investing heavily with industry to collaborate uh to get minimum viable products in the hands of our operators as quickly as possible.
▶ 1:03:06A small number of requirements necessary just to advance the programs, get them in the hands of the operators and then get their real world practical feedback and continually upgrade. That's a different model. Uh we have to work closely with with Congress in order to make sure that we understand what the requirements are. We get the right funding. We have stable funding over a number of years so we can continue to get that rapid enhancement. Uh but that's going to be a lot more work because it's not the traditional mindset that we have for our procurement and acquisition. Uh we've really doubled down on the training and education of our forces.
▶ 1:03:36Uh so many new authorities uh that we've we've gotten. We have to train our our contracting officers. We have to train our acquirers. We have to train the engineers so they understand all the things that can be put in place. So we really doubled down on on putting the kinds of courses and education in place so that they can execute the authorities that we've given them. But I'm most proud of of converting what was basically a merchant marine into a navy, if you'll let me use that analogy. I've used it before.
▶ 1:04:04We delivered services as a as a military space organization before the Space Force. Now we have to control the domain. And I think we've done a nice job of transitioning to a combat credible force. Uh we're we're providing resilient architectures. Our forces are trained in operations of their tactics against thinking adversaries. We've proven that most recently in Epic Fury. Five times as many deployments as we would normally see. We supported Epic Fury. Uh and all of the forces u have been fully integrated.
▶ 1:04:34Uh I hear from Brad Cooper and and uh and Southcom team how well the space capabilities are integrated, how dependent they are on their success. So uh I think we're on the right track uh in terms of training, educating, and building the kinds of combat ready forces on an operationally relevant timeline. And with continued support of this committee, I think we'll be in good shape for the years to come.
▶ 1:04:57Mr. Secretary, you reached for the mic on the unmanned uh question from the chairman. I perhaps you wanted to advocate for the collaborative combat aircraft program funding that's in fiscal year 27 budget.
▶ 1:05:08Yeah, I was just going to say when we we talk about an unmanned fighter aircraft, for all practical purposes, that's what a CCA is. um the combat capability it will have. Uh it is really a way to build a large number of of lowerc cost essentially fighter aircraft that will support and operate in collaboration with the the man fleet and we see that model going forward for quite some time.
▶ 1:05:31We certainly see that in the Andrew program in in Ohio that you've been working very closely with that have proven results
▶ 1:05:37and that's been a a very successful acquisition so far.
▶ 1:05:40Thank you.
▶ 1:05:40Thank you. Chair now recognizes gentlely from Pennsylvania, Miss Hulahan.
▶ 1:05:44Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chair, and thank you gentlemen for being here and congratulations on your retirement general. It's nice to see you, Mr. Secretary, again as well. My questions start with you, sir. Um, a key element of the Air Force's future is, as we've been talking about today, the manned and unmanned systems that are working in concert with one another and that there is an uh obvious lean towards autonomous weapon systems as well.
▶ 1:06:07manned and unmanned systems will even help alleviate some of the persistent pilot shortages that we've been experiences that fa experiencing that face the air force for Mr. Secretary, uh, as a preliminary question, would you agree that manned and unmanned systems are the future of the Air Force and air power?
▶ 1:06:26Uh, before I answer that, every time somebody congratulates General Salsman on his retirement, it hurts just a little bit.
▶ 1:06:31It makes me jealous, too. Trust me, uh, actually stay [laughter] and I I am not as persuasive as I thought. Um, he's leaving. Uh, abs, absolutely, Congresswoman. Uh, unmanned aircraft. Uh again, I think they will play an increasingly important role uh as we as we as we build out uh into the future uh across the board.
▶ 1:06:53I agree and I think one of the things that I'm sort of stymied by is that in the Air Force proposed budget that basic research is being cut by 5%, applied research is being cut by 21% and advanced technology development is being cut by 14%. in an environment, frankly, where I feel like money seems to be no object. What was the calculus behind those decisions to cut the budget in those areas?
▶ 1:07:17That's a that's a good question, Congresswoman. I I think if you look at totality of what we're spending on unmanned platforms, the the dollar investments obviously gone way up. Uh but I take your point is some of the specific basic research. Uh I'm going to I'm going to go back and take a look at that. we are spending more money on on the autonomy part, but some of the uh platform R&D uh stuff. Uh I'm going to go back and take a look at that.
▶ 1:07:41I I I really appreciate that because I think that's sort of a leading indicator of where our values are, you know, where your money, where your mouth is. And I think it's important that we do that. I think it also has real implications to personnel. Um I, as you know, we've we've talked about this, was an acquisitions officer and and didn't see uh a leadership opportunity in my future. couldn't look up and see that and it definitely would seem that way.
▶ 1:08:06The signal would be to people like me now that that because of reduction in budgets in those kinds of areas that maybe they're not valued as STEM professionals as people with those those backgrounds. Um so I really appreciate you looking into that. U my second question is for General Saltzman. Um you re represent the very smallest and newest branch of the military. Your service was spun out of the Air Force uh because the space domain was growing in importance and will continue to grow.
▶ 1:08:34First of all, I would assume the answer to this is yes, General, but do you agree that establishing the face space force was a good idea in retrospect?
▶ 1:08:42A wildly successful idea.
▶ 1:08:44I concur. uh General Saltzman, has the Space Force taken advantage of being a new service in that you have the opportunity to develop a new culture in and separate uh from the Air Force and approaching space operations as you you've mentioned during this hearing in a very different set of ways.
▶ 1:09:00Yes, ma'am. I I think we've been successful not only in pushing the envelope into what we can do, but growing to take on those new missions. And so I guess where I'm heading with this question, General Wilspock, is in the Air Force when you would have to rank order kind of where your priorities are in terms of what you're putting your efforts to, where would cyber fall in that one through five or below five.
▶ 1:09:26I don't know if I could uh rank it one through five because it's integral to everything that we do.
▶ 1:09:32It's it's integral that it's integral to everything that we do.
▶ 1:09:36I agree. I think one of the things is is that our services cyber is in it of itself a domain too and I think that we need to be thinking about it in the same way that we thought about the space force as potentially its own force so that we might be able to recognize its incredible importance with what's left of my time. Uh my last question is also for General Saltzman. We've been talking a lot about uh acquisitions and your relationship with industry.
▶ 1:10:03Space is a lot more congested and contested than ever before. Um I'm worried that the department might be underutilizing commercial space domain awareness tools uh that are available in the commercial sector despite growing sophistication from industry in that area. What steps are you making sure and taking to make sure that we evaluate and integrate what is available on the open economy uh in your needs requirements? We we have a what we call the JCO, the joint commercial office that pulls in that commercial data.
▶ 1:10:32We've established the uh universal data library as a as a parking spot for all of that data. We continually evaluate it. We've got 22 different nations that contribute to that as well. So, uh we have the marketplaces to evaluate that data from all the commercial providers and then we rapidly pull it in and use it for operational purposes.
▶ 1:10:52Thank you. I look forward to continued uh investigation into the power of industry. I yield and appreciate the
▶ 1:10:58Yes. The and I I do want to on the point that you make uh you made reference early to epic fury. What happened with absolute resolve? The operation absolute resolve goes to your point. Space and cyber capabilities were demonstrated as part of the joint force as never before in an eyewateringly effective manner. So these are very important additions to our joint effort. With that I recognize a gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Whitman.
▶ 1:11:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Secretary Mink, General Wilsbach, General Saltzman, thanks so much for joining us. General Saltzman, thanks so much for your incredible service to our nation for 35 years. And thank you to you and your family for your service and sacrifice. Uh, the nation will be forever grateful for that. General Salsman, I want to start with you. Thank you for coming out to the Mid-Atlantic Regional Space Port in March with Representative Kiggins and myself.
▶ 1:11:48And I I hope you was it was helpful for you to see that vertical lift to space capability that's there at the Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport. And this delivers on a number of very key missions and make sure we have that additional access to space which is now uh more important than ever. Uh historically, you know, Congress has played a very pivotal role in putting resources towards these FAA approved facilities in these states to make sure we have that that vertical launch state pace spaceport capability.
▶ 1:12:17And we know that's even more important as space traffic or launch traffic gets bigger and bigger and more congested at Canaveral and at Vandenberg. Um, these new capabilities I think are going to be key. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record an article from Politico dated May 19th, 2026. And this article details a report from the Commercial Space Foundation that says US launch infrastructure won't be able to support growing launch demand without considerable investment.
▶ 1:12:45Without objection, so ordered. also appreciate your response. I know Representative Kiggins and I wrote you a letter about the importance of this capability in these particular areas and in your response where you said a critical component of our national launch capability and a key contributor to meeting these growing security demands are places like the spaceport in Virginia and Alaska.
▶ 1:13:06uh now that you've seen these launch capabilities firsthand and knowing as I spoke about the congestion at the Cape and at Vandenberg and knowing more and more heavy launches are going to take place there which even creates a bigger impact on medium and small launch capabilities. uh can you share your thinking about these state spaceport capabilities in in vertical launch to orbit capabilities and how they are going to be necessary in the future and what would be the plan for us to make sure we have that capability expanding in those two spaceports.
▶ 1:13:35Well, thank you sir and I appreciate the opportunity to come out and and visit the site with you and um I agree it's a it's a gem out there uh and there's some there's some real capability. I think it's a two-phaseed approach in my mind and I'll defer to Secretary Mink too. I know he's got some ideas on the launch infrastructure, but uh first step is make sure that we're efficiently using those those space ports that we do have.
▶ 1:13:58I think there is some reorganization, some redesign of small and medium lift capabilities in our in our larger spaceports that might be able to be offset uh and and gain the efficiencies you get from places like Wallops Island. Uh so that's step one is make sure we're using as efficiently as possible the resources we have and then second is growing the infrastructure uh to support the demand signal that we are seeing from industry uh and our national security launches. Uh we're we're going to have to increase the capacity.
▶ 1:14:25Uh and then maybe the connected to that is the geographic resiliency that you might need to have separate launch locations and not be so tied to just the two specific launch ports that we have. So we're we're looking heavily and we're anal analyzing uh alternatives uh to support other options.
▶ 1:14:43General Salsman and Secretary Minky, I'd like to get your specific ideas about what would these investments look like? What should we focus on in how we are directing money to these state space ports in order to augment what's going on at the Cape and at Vandenberg.
▶ 1:14:59One will be as we redesign and we say we're going to move capability from one uh spaceport to another, that that's not inexpensive. Uh and then to make sure that it has things like the port facilities, it has the the consumable uh infrastructure that that's required, storage facilities, uh payload integration facilities. So there are milcon efforts, there's uh upgrades, and then we're going to have to think about the regulatory, how how fast can we launch, what are the launch licensing uh procedures, environmental impact studies that we have to do.
▶ 1:15:27All of those are going to require oversight to make sure we get it right and do it as efficiently as possible.
▶ 1:15:31Very good. Secretary Mink.
▶ 1:15:35Yeah. Yeah, second everything General Saltzman said. I guess what I'd add is as well as, you know, we've just finished up a study and that's working its way through the process to come down to the hill. At at a high level, what it says is we we probably need another site that's capable of heavy and and super heavy launch capability.
▶ 1:15:56U both from a resiliency perspective and just even at at the Cape limitations and how much space we got. Um it it it it still shocks me a little bit that just bases, launch infrastructure seems to be the limitation right now uh on on the nation's ability to grow our commercial grow at least for the next uh foreseeable future grow our our commercial launch infrastructure uh which supports again both commercial and national.
▶ 1:16:22So it it looks like we we we need to take full advantage of the efficiencies at at the current space force, but we probably need another location that's capable of a heavy and super heavy launch kit.
▶ 1:16:33Gentlemen, time's expired. The chair and I recognize gentle lady from Washington, Mr. Strickland.
▶ 1:16:38Thank you, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith. And thank you to all of our witnesses. I'm over here today. I want to focus my questions on strategic mobility, airborne battle management, and space force structure. So I have a question for each of you. General Wilsbach, the Air Force now expects portions of the strategic air fleet airlift fleet to remain operational for decades longer than originally planned while the next generation airlift remains years away.
▶ 1:17:04The Air Force also waited decades to recapitalize KC1 135 fleet before beginning the KC46 program. What exactly is the department doing now to ensure the next generation airlift does not face similar recapitalization or schedule pressures as a strategic airlift continues to age? Thank you, Congresswoman. Uh yes, we have a in the budget this year is a um study that's that's designed to look exactly at what you're talking about, the next generation airlift.
▶ 1:17:34And the the idea behind this study is to uh determine what the next aircraft will look like, what it will be, and the requirements thereof. And it's to replace the C5 and the C17. We have um a lot of life left on both those platforms. And so we're we're not in a big crisis right now. We we don't think we need to replace the C5 until about 2040. And and the the seven the 17 is even beyond that.
▶ 1:18:04Um, so I think we're in we're in okay shape and that the the budget is designed to to look at this for the next year.
▶ 1:18:10Thank you. And staying on operational capability, Secretary Mink, the department previously sought to terminate the E7, but recently announced plans to move forward with five additional aircraft. We did not see funding for those aircraft in the fiscal year 27 budget request, though we understand the department plans to submit a budget amendment to fully fund the program in 27 and beyond. what operational realities actually cause a department to reverse course and what's the status of that funding request?
▶ 1:18:37Uh maybe answer the second part first. Uh the status of the request is is we're putting through a budget amendment uh in the I think it's in the ballpark of around $ 1.5 billion that's working its way through the system right now uh to come to the Hill that'll fund 27 and then when we build the 28 budget uh we will work it into the the long-term the long-term plan.
▶ 1:18:57Uh with respect to what's changed uh uh the what's changed is is when the decision was made to to cancel the E7 uh we were working at a topline of the department of about 8 8.90. Um we have uh we hope uh much more budget flexibility now and that was one of the things that we put back on the back on the the priority list to to put into the budget.
▶ 1:19:23uh it is really just simply at the 8.90 mark we were cutting things that we didn't want to cut. Um now we have enough flexibility to put some of that back in and that was one of the airplanes that went on it. Uh just at a very high level we believe the space-based and the airbased AMTI mission working together is where we need to be and and we're looking for support from the Hill. So appreciate that. Do you feel confident that the department can now execute airborne battle management without the E7?
▶ 1:19:54I I I think we had a plan to do that uh without the E7 uh using space-based uh because again if you look at the larger air battle management it is a fusion of sensors that are really across airspace and the ground domains. Uh the E7 helps make that problem easier. With that, I'll maybe turn it over to General Wilsbach for a couple comments. I
▶ 1:20:15I agree with the SEC secretary. We can do air battle management from a number of different platforms, but the E7 allows us what we believe is the highest capability to be flexible and get the air battle manager in the right space at the right time to manage that battle.
▶ 1:20:31Thank you. All right. Now, I'm going to go to General Saltzman and turning to Space Force, which by the way has the best logo of all the services. I got to point that out. Very modern. I'm General Saltzman. The Space Force is receiving major budget and manpower growth while also stating the force remains too small for expanding mission set.
▶ 1:20:50Given recent information provided to Congress showing shortfalls in both military and civilian acquisition personnel, what's the service doing to address those gaps, particularly as it prepares to manage a roughly 300% increase in funding?
▶ 1:21:05Well, we are we are planning to grow as quickly as possible. um something like 2,000 new civilian hires over the next year. For example, we're doing about 300 I'm looking at my notes here, 300 personnel actions per month to bring on that civilian workforce, which is a big part of our acquisition cadre. Um 2,800 new active duty guardians is a part of the request.
▶ 1:21:26U the missions that are coming on are going to require us to put together 10 new program offices to make sure we can do the kinds of acquisition that's necessary on an on an operationally relevant timeline. It'll probably result in about 40 new squadrons just with the new missions we have coming down the pipe. So this is about um understanding what the mission requirements are un doing all the manpower times expired
▶ 1:21:48then bringing in the acquisition to do
▶ 1:21:49Here I recognizes a gentleman from Georgia Mr. Scott.
▶ 1:21:52Thank you Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you for being here today. Uh Mr. Secretary, I represent Robins Air Force Base, one of the three depots um that are gems to our country. just is the Air Force still committed to the 3DO
▶ 1:22:10Uh, absolutely, Congressman.
▶ 1:22:12Um, I'm going to get a little further into this, but one of my concerns is as we devest older equipment, uh, that we make sure that we're not creating a a capability gap when we get rid of those older systems. making sure that the new systems are developed and in production before we get rid of them. So, as we talk about the E11s, I know there's been some postponement of the A10s.
▶ 1:22:38Interested any comments on there on the development of the A10s and the Um, what is the plan to replace the assets with equal or greater capability without generating a gap?
▶ 1:22:53uh every one of those platforms are are the strategies a little bit different but we do have we do have strategies for for all of them on the MQ9 side of the house we do we are not divesting uh the MQ9 uh we have had some losses in that aircraft and we're working to fill those losses uh but in parallel we are looking at at what is the follow on to the MQ9 aircraft and it's probably going to be not one platform it'll probably be multiple platforms uh and we've actually been doing a lot of the R&D work uh to be positioned to
▶ 1:23:23do that and we're now in the process of doing that. Uh on the A-10 side of the house, um we've essentially slowed down and and delayed the retirement of that platform and in many cases uh what's that allowed us to do is is backfill those units with more capable survivable combat aircraft. Uh which is part of the budget submission allowed us to to deliver those platforms earlier and replace the A-10s. uh on the 11 side of the house.
▶ 1:23:48Uh the the the uh again the current challenge with that aircraft is survivability where we need it. Um we are pushing hard across the fleet to go to more secure and survivable uh beyond lines.com in all of our platforms and we are we are rapidly fielding that capability across the entire force uh widebody and fighter aircraft. they [snorts] they are more the new platforms are.
▶ 1:24:17But when it comes to combat search and rescue, the A10s have have have done an extremely good job. I'm concerned that as we move to faster systems, uh loiter time and other things that we need for combat search and rescue will be sacrificed for that. Uh, General Wilsbach.
▶ 1:24:38Um, and and let me say this with regard to the A-10s and a lot of our weapon systems when we're not going to use them anymore, I do not understand why we don't sell them to our allies. And could could you speak to that, Secretary? Like why if if we're going to divest ourselves of a system like the why do we put it in the boneyard? Why don't we sell it to a NATO partner uh who who who could use the system and then it would be there when we needed
▶ 1:25:07If I if I could maybe I'll touch on that and then I'll turn it over to General Wilsbach to act how we're going to answer how we're going to conduct the the the rescue support mission sets. Yeah. So we do sell a lot of platforms uh to our international partners. A very large number of platforms through international partners.
▶ 1:25:27Um and when they look at what they want to buy from a cost-effective survivable combat effectiveness perspective, uh they are focused on you know either the F-35s or Q9 type aircraft. Um just due to the cost and the age uh and the A10s are quite old aircraft and becoming more and more challenging to maintain. Uh it it it just doesn't look cost effective from from from that perspective. But I'll
▶ 1:25:52I'd rather give them to them than put them in the boneyard to be honest with you. So giving a platform and the maintenance and everything else that's required to maintain that platform, it would be very expensive to most of these
▶ 1:26:05I general
▶ 1:26:07No, the secretary is exactly right. I mean, even if you gave the A-10s to a country, they would still have to pay to sustain them and upgrade them and keep them viable.
▶ 1:26:16In 30 seconds, can you speak to combat search and rescue if we're giving up the
▶ 1:26:20I I do. I mean, the reason why the A-10 is really good at that is because it's a core mission of that platform. And as we transitioned u with with putting the A-10 in the in the retirement phase, there will be other platforms that will it will become their core mission. And so F-35s, F-15s, um other other platforms have the capability.
▶ 1:26:41So, General, the A10 pilots are specifically trained for combat search and rescue. Are we going to specifically train F-35 and other pilots for combat search and rescue? Has there been questions about that?
▶ 1:26:51We we'll have to. It's our mission.
▶ 1:26:53Okay. Thank you.
▶ 1:26:54Excellent. Great. Chair, I recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Cisneros.
▶ 1:26:59Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. Um, I'll get right into it. Mr. Secretary, I recently met with the California National Guard, state agitant general, and discuss the urgent need for for fighter uh several Air National Guard units, including a unit in California, operating on aging F-15 fleet well beyond the projected service lives with critical shortfalls and spare parts and sustainment resources.
▶ 1:27:25Um what's the department's plan for recap recapitalizing these units and what is the expected timeline for delivering replacement aircraft to 144th in California? So, so I I I think maybe what you're poking at is the delivery pace of the F-15X, which is the primary replacement platform. Uh we are focused on that.
▶ 1:27:49We are actually ramping up production to support uh replacement uh of the older F-15s with the the newer very very capable F-15X platform. Uh we've been working very closely with the contractor Boeing. Matter of fact, they spent a day out at St. Louis just going through the detail planning of how we're going to increase production of that platform and maintain schedule to to basically replenish those aircraft.
▶ 1:28:14So I I think we're making good progress and and it is a focus and we are pushing hard to make sure that that we get those planes rep
▶ 1:28:21Well, our unit in California is still flying F-15C's and D's and a lot of them are being um you know stripped for for spare parts to keep other aircraft running. Um, I I hope we can get this going, but it's my understanding we're making about one F-15 EX a day. Um, if that's the case, we're going to have to speed that up quickly because we need these aircraft and other units need them as well.
▶ 1:28:44So So we're not we're not making one a day. If we were making one a day, I'd be extremely h happy. Congressman, I'm sorry. One a month.
▶ 1:28:50Yeah, I know what you meant. Uh, yeah. So, we think we're going to get to two a month uh pretty quickly and and the contractor is supposed to come back with us in the next few weeks on a plan to get to three a month and then four a month to both support the US and FMS sales. That's a platform that that many of our international partners want to buy as well.
▶ 1:29:08All right. [snorts] Thank you for that. Um General, um you chief master sergeant of the uh of the Space Force. Um I'm not even going to try and pronounce his name. Ben, well Beng said earlier this year that uh the Space Force is going to need to double in size. Now I know you said in your opening statement that you're increasing by 27% but that's well short of doubling in size.
▶ 1:29:33So as you kind of see it as you're getting ready to retire and thank you for your your service uh for your years of service both in the Air Force and the Space Force. Um what is the plan going forward to kind of get to that point if we do need to double in size? How long is it going to take us to get to that point?
▶ 1:29:51Yes, sir. The 27% increase is just in one year.
▶ 1:29:54we're going from 10,000, we're adding about 2,800 to that. So, over four years, we think we're going to get close by the end of the decade uh to 20,000 active duty service members. So, that's the plan. We can't bring them all on at once because our training pipeline has to be able to support that. And quite frankly, the squadrons that we need to stand up aren't ready yet because the systems aren't on orbit. So, it's about synchronizing it all over the next four or five years.
▶ 1:30:17All right. All right. Well, I think you'll have support from this committee if there's anything we can do to help speed up that process to get you there sooner. Uh because it definitely is needed. Thank you. Um General Wbbach, uh you made previous comments that the Air Force's prime objective is to fix and fly aircraft, which I agree with. Uh yet the Air Force carries responsibility for the landbased leg of our nuclear triad as well, the ICBM. Uh the department notified Congress that the next general uh next generation ICBM is wolffully over budget and behind schedule.
▶ 1:30:48So while the air force is struggling with pilot shortfalls in a fleet of aircraft that is aging rapidly uh and it's even been suggested that maybe the army should take over that I've read in an article that the army should take over the ICBM program. Um what do you think needs to happen uh in order to kind of help support the ICBMs? Is this something we should turn over to the army? Is it something that the air force air force can focus on while it's also focusing on the aircraft portion of its mission as well?
▶ 1:31:17Thanks, Congressman. I don't think we should turn it over to the army. I think the air force is capable and has shown that we've been operating the minute for decades and we can continue to transition to the sentinel. Uh the 27 budget has about 4.5 billion uh to continue to work the sentinel uh program. I know we were we had a non mccertie breach uh earlier. We're re restructuring that program and it's on a better track now.
▶ 1:31:44All right. Well, thank you for that. I I think this is something that it it definitely is part of the triad needs to be focused on and we're going to have to re rethink the triad going into the future. But thank you very much all for your uh for your answers today and I yield back. I would just say if I can add that nuclear deterrence both from the air side of the house and the ICBM side of the house as well as the nuclear command and control that's uh that's provided by the space force in many respects is is is our number one priority.
▶ 1:32:14Nuclear deterrence is the mission we need to make sure we get right and and we're going to make sure we get it right.
▶ 1:32:18Chair recognized a gentleman from Tennessee Dr. Dejar Lee.
▶ 1:32:21Thank you chairman. Secretary Mink over here. I too want to congratulate General Saltzman on his retirement and uh General Saltzman uh thank you for your leadership and service. Uh it's going to be sorely missed. Um I was pleased to see the significant increase in the space force budget. However, I was disappointed despite the overall increase the commercial service budget request was half of last year's request.
▶ 1:32:50Uh this line funds the commercial augmentation space reserve and the tactical surveillance reconnaissance and tracking pilot program and several other lines of effort that have been of interest to this committee. Uh can you walk me through the services plan to increase the use of commercial services as proposed by your commercial space strategy if it's not reflected in this budget line?
▶ 1:33:13Sir, I I think uh we've proven we've demonstrated the capabilities of using commercial uh services uh in support of our missions and uh now it's just about figuring out what those funding sources are. In fact, a lot of the combatant commands are paying the bill on uh on commercial imagery as well as uh commercial satellite communications. And so I think if you look at the overall budget, you'd still see an increase in commercial services. But um it's something that we're looking forward we're evaluating whether this should be a program of record and whether that'll expand.
▶ 1:33:41But right now our commercial space uh office is handling that marketplace and we think sufficiently.
▶ 1:33:46Okay. Thank you. And Secretary Mink, this really this one is for you. Um while General White is responsible for the Air Force's highest profile nuclear modernization program, Sentinel and B-21. The Air Force remains responsible for many others such as the replacement cruise missile known as LRSO as well as a myriad of NC3 programs. Can you assure us that the Air Force will continue to prioritize these programs and that we won't take our eye off the ball as other parts of the Air Force nuclear portfolio are reassigned to General White?
▶ 1:34:17Uh so so again, General White absolutely we will keep our eye on on the ball on that. Eloesso is actually one of those programs uh I didn't mention it but it it is going very well. Uh program is properly structured in the beginning and it is delivering uh actually at a very good cost point not just from a schedule perspective but a cost perspective. Uh so we're very happy with that. Um and and across the board, you know, we will continue to support even though Dale's got really special authorities straight from the depths on acquisition.
▶ 1:34:46Those programs are still sitting in the Air Force and and and we will work closely with him to make sure we deliver all of
▶ 1:34:53Okay. Well, staying on that topic of LRSO, as you may know, last year there was the miscommunication about the amount of funding necessary, which ultimately led to a significant cuts to the program. This year the budget request includes 565 million for research and development in addition to 330 million procurement for it. I just wanted to confirm with you that this is the level of resourcing the Air Force needs to keep the program on track and there is no margin for additional delay. Is that correct?
▶ 1:35:22Uh that that is correct and and I'm not sure how we ended up cross paths on that communication. uh but yeah that that that did impact the program those law l lack of resources uh last year uh so yes those resources are absolutely required to keep the program on schedule it's actually in a very sensitive period of its uh life where you're transitioning from the R&D phase of the program into production as well as making sure that that all the infrastructure is there to support it uh so uh appreciate all your
▶ 1:35:51yeah well well thank you and this is the best performing nuclear modernization program in the air force we need to ensure that progress is not put in jeopardy by confusion about how the air force needs to keep executing it. So, uh, appreciate that. Uh, General Wils or Wilsbach, uh, there have been a number of drone incursions at military bases across the country and there is a wide concern for the threat of drones being used in attack on the homeland. What role does the Air National Guard play in detecting, tracking, and responding to unmanned aerial system threats within the homeland?
▶ 1:36:21And what additional capabilities or authorities are required to enhance this mission at the state level? I think we're good on the authorities. Uh but the Air National Guard along with you know frankly all other uh department uh bases have the same same responsibility which is to defend their base and u the the the problems that we have right now are the capabilities that we have to detect the environment and then to do something about it.
▶ 1:36:50Um many of the bases have non-kinetic capabilities that don't actually work against a lot of the drones. And so we've been rapidly, you know, in the last few months been rapidly fielding new capabilities uh to take care of this. We still need to continue to do that.
▶ 1:37:05Anything Congress can do to help at this
▶ 1:37:07and the 27 budget addresses this.
▶ 1:37:09Yes, sir. Thank you. Chairman, I yield
▶ 1:37:12Gentleman yields back. Chair recognized gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Sorenson.
▶ 1:37:15Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh many thanks to our witnesses today for your leadership to innovate and scale up our Air Force capabilities as well as Space Force protecting our assets above and keeping us safe here at home. And Secretary Mink, I'd be remiss if I didn't also congratulate the man to your left, General Staltzman, on your retirement. Um I am so incredibly proud to represent the Patriots working at the 182nd Airlift Wing in Peoria, Illinois.
▶ 1:37:44I wish we had uh C130J models at the airfield today. Uh but Central Illinois is thankful for all of your efforts to get us these new C130Js at the 182nd. As we have seen with Operation Epic Fury, contingency response groups are critical to quickly opening airfields and ensuring that our airmen can smoothly enable theater logistics.
▶ 1:38:08Whether it's a dirt field in the middle of nowhere, an abandoned runway somewhere, or at the sight of a recent uh weather disaster, a contingency response group can make sure that our service members can land safely and begin carrying out operations right away. I'm so thrilled that the Air Force decided to stand up a contingency response group within the 182nd in Peoria. Our Guard members in the in Peoria are the best of the best. So, there's no one better to kick off operations.
▶ 1:38:36I could talk about them all day, but I'm concerned with how this CRG conversion is going. We're one year into a three-year conversion, and there's no funding for equipment or manning. So, uh, to the secretary, what are we doing to ensure that the 182nd as well as the five Air National Guard units converting to CRGs can complete the conversion and become mission ready? Uh, if it's all right, if it's all right, Congressman, I think I'll I'll I'll hand that off to the the the the
▶ 1:39:06Thank you.
▶ 1:39:07For the specifics of the exact funding, let me come back to you and I'll I'll give you a written report of how we intend to do that because I don't know the exact specifics for that wing.
▶ 1:39:16All right. I appreciate that. It's something that we should uh get figured out. It's been years in the making.
▶ 1:39:22Concur. Um, in terms of personnel, the 182nd was sourced with 125 positions. As you know, 175 are needed to complete a CRG unit. Um, what more can we do together to ensure that we've got those 50 additional personnel um on the
▶ 1:39:41So, we'll make sure that that the appropriate uh personnel are are there as we as we we start to transition. uh the uh and if if there's a shortfall, we'll we'll come back to you and and work with you on that as well.
▶ 1:39:55and the um the 27 budget also allows for an end strength increase uh for the Air Force. And so when when we say we'll make sure you have the people, it also needs to be funded and we are funded in the 27 budget request for that. So that'll be helpful to be able to plus that up.
▶ 1:40:11Great. I appreciate that. Um to General Staltzman and to Mr. M. Uh earlier you mentioned the need for another launch site for Space Force. How important are horizontal launch points and how can we expedite their development? Sar, when you say horizontal launch points, you don't you don't mean uh airbased launch systems or are you talking about horizontal versus vertical integration or
▶ 1:40:36forgive me for merging a little bit of of the SST committee that I've been working on in the past, but um to develop a horizontal launch point to get the things that we build into space, right? So, you know, we've got a space, you know, that is outside the the busy O'Hare and Midway airspace, but it is the epicenter of where we build all of the critical industrial and and advanced manufacturing. Um, how do we get it up where we need it?
▶ 1:41:04Is there a way that we could utilize horizontal launches as opposed to vertical launches? And how can we work together on it?
▶ 1:41:11So, we probably have a long discussion on this. This those have been looked at back and forth. um both the commercial industry and the government is from a cost effectiveness perspective it's they they've gone to vertical launch and a matter of fact even vertical landing there are many contractors not just SpaceX but blue and others
▶ 1:41:27are doing the vertical landing that just approve just appeared to at least now the state of the technology as the most uh efficient way to launch uh saying that is there there like I said there is an additional uh probably launch facility required to support uh the large rockets which harder to find than the the to support the smaller rockets. And that's something we're going to have to be working with Congress and the states to to figure out going forward.
▶ 1:41:55I think airborne launch is the as close as we've come I've seen to demonstrating some sort of hor horizontal launch capability and it does provide some agile uh flexibility uh for launches. Uh but payloads are are reduced at this point. And so we just haven't seen it be able to produce the kinds of efficiencies that both vertical launch and vertical reusable launch has
▶ 1:42:15Well, just because of where we are, I hope that the Quad Cities could be part of that uh discussion. Thank you so much and I yield back.
▶ 1:42:21Gentleman's time has expired. The chair now recognized the gentleman from Nebraska, General Bone.
▶ 1:42:27Thank you. Thanks to all three of you for being here. Uh General Hzman, congratulations. I retired in 2014. Now I'm starting to think about a third career. So you you got you got a lot of runway ahead of you and I appreciate all three of you. Uh my first question is to the secretary. I wanted to verify some statements that were made uh in the Senate uh in the recent weeks. Uh first and by the way these are very positive developments in my mind uh that you said that the Air Force will be building towards 22 EA37s.
▶ 1:42:58Is that correct? the EA37Bs. Yes, you're referring to. Yes, we've expanded the within this budget submission across the fight. We've expanded the the number of 37Bs.
▶ 1:43:10This is an incredible milestone. I've been working this for a long time. I flew uh in the earlier versions for 11 years, but we're going to finally produce a capability that our war fighters say they need. And you know, electronic warfare saves lives, makes it easier to penetrate air defenses. And so, I just uh well, I applaud the decision. Uh when I came here it was six and we had a hard time getting those numbers up. So it's been a 10-year project uh from our office. So I am thrilled. Thank you.
▶ 1:43:37Also wanted to verify that the Looking Glass mission uh is being moved back to the Air Force. Let me just for those who aren't familiar with the Looking Glass mission, it's a nuclear command and control uh platform, airborne platform that provides survivability if the White House is hit, the Pentagon's hit or Stratcom. and it ensures that we can launch our ICBMs even if we get decapitated on the ground. I think it's a very important capability especially as Russia and China rebuilds. But I just wanted to verify that this is coming back to the Air Force.
▶ 1:44:08Uh yes, Congressman, it is and we are in the process of working with our partners at Strat and other places to refine the requirements uh uh really to get to something that's affordable and we can deliver fairly quickly. Um but yes, an important mission. But this is another huge milestone from my vantage point. I've been working this too for a decade in in Congress. You know, when we have these airplanes on a 15-minute alert, we have weapons that can hit us in 15 minutes.
▶ 1:44:33So, I felt like we needed to increase our capability here, our readiness to more quickly respond. And I think we're going the right direction. Russia and China must know that no matter what they do, we have our ability to launch 400 ICBMs and submarine missiles and and really to use our deterrence capabilities. Uh General Wilsbach, of the 10,200 sorties and over 13,500 strikes and epic fury, but how much of this was Air Force and you talk a little bit about the Air Force
▶ 1:45:07The the probably the real answer to that is classified. So maybe we can get together in a in a close session. But we we have we have flown a lot of sorties and we've dropped a lot of munitions and I'm very proud of the effort that the airmen have done. And this this uh conflict has been somewhat different than others in that almost everybody involved were under fire the whole time.
▶ 1:45:29Uh and they had to still continue to generate sorties which they did We actually had to train or we had to fight like we've been training for a long time which under fire at our airfields. That's uh remember doing that myself in training. How did the F-35
▶ 1:45:48It performed really well and there's a lot of news on low aircraft availability rates but the ones that we sent forward uh were running near standards as far as availability rate went. Um, it was also extremely effective from the standpoint of hitting its target and surviving in some very high threat environments.
▶ 1:46:07Last question I'd like to ask about the B-21. Recently, we've decided we're going to go from 100 to maybe 145. Just how important is the B21 capability in your view for the future?
▶ 1:46:18Yes. So, as you know, as you stated, the program of record is 100 aircraft. There's been multiple opinions that uh we need more. I I think we're probably going to need more. We're gonna have to do a study and certainly work with Stratcom and Air Force Global Strike to to figure out what that number is. One one of the things though that's important if we do decide to to build more is Northrep's ability to build them at scale and pace.
▶ 1:46:44Okay, General Saltzman, the budget requests uh huge increases in manpower for the Space Force, which is good, but given the current training pipelines and base level infrastructure, how easily are you going to be able to assimilate uh the added manpower and the the added
▶ 1:46:59We've got good planning for FY27. Our Air Force partners have been great uh in terms of being able to take that on at both BMT and officer sessions. So, I think we're good for FY27. We will have to invest uh additional resources as we get closer to the 2030 time frame. We'll start to exceed the capacity and we'll have to expand it.
▶ 1:47:18With that, I yield.
▶ 1:47:27Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. General, we will miss you very much and thank you for your faithful service to our country over all these years. Uh, I want to start with the budget because that's what you're here to make the case for. A $338.8 billion budget. As you pointed out, it's a $92.5 billion increase from last year. So, 38%.
▶ 1:47:53As I look at those numbers and on this committee, when we talk about a $ 1.5 trillion defense budget, sometimes these numbers can become abstractions, but I think about this in very concrete terms. We're talking about a sum of money, the increase alone, you know, bigger than the market value of some of big companies in this country, bigger than the annual GDP of some of our NATO allies, and it certainly vastly exceeds the annual budget of most states in this great nation, including my home state of New Hampshire.
▶ 1:48:23Your increase alone would cover 10 years of the state of New Hampshire's budget, our public schools, our police, state police officers, roads and bridges. So this is this is no small request. So I want to ask you, Mr. Secretary, a question I asked you last year. Is the Air Force on track to pass a clean audit this year?
▶ 1:48:45Uh the uh the direction we were given, not this year, direction we were given was uh by 28, but we intend to do it by the end of 27. Uh so we are pushing hard to actually meet kind of the direction we were given, which is by FY28. So, we are pushing hard and we're making good progress, right? And I I I agree with you, Congresswoman. It's a lot of money. It's it I I see it as one of my core jobs is to make sure we effectively spend those resources to increase national security now and for decades to
▶ 1:49:15Well, I appreciate that. And, you know, you pointed out last year where you were previously, you you were at in a place where failing an audit was not an option. And that is the spirit I hope you'll continue to bring uh to the Air Force because public trust depends on clean audits across the Pentagon. So I look forward I'll follow up with some questions for the record. We want to support you in this effort uh in every way that we can. And I'm I'm grateful for what you've said about being a custodian of taxpayer dollars.
▶ 1:49:46Um, when I think about where we can crack down on waste, fraud, and abuse, um, I'm thinking a lot about the GAO weapons system annual assessment that I took a look at. When we you look at lag times, delays, and cost overruns, uh, the report from June of last year pointed to 49 billion in cost overruns. The vast majority of which, 30 billion, uh, was attributed to the the Sentinel program.
▶ 1:50:15And when I look at what we can do to keep our systems on track and our costs in alignment, you know, the president issued an executive order earlier this year that goes to what I think are is really the source of some of our trouble. Stock buybacks, dividend payown payouts, and exorbitant executive salaries in some of these big defense companies. So, I I want to ask you uh how the implementation of the president's executive order is going.
▶ 1:50:46Um and I want to know if you think this is something Congress should codify. There's bipartisan support for this because at the end of the day, it makes no sense for our government to be forking over trillions of taxpayer dollars uh to big companies while their executives are receiving exorbitant pay. they are using this money to buy back their own company's stocks instead of investing in our war fighter and our national defense. So could you speak to the implementation of this executive
▶ 1:51:14I try to be quick because I could talk about this for at least an hour.
▶ 1:51:17Well, I look forward to sitting down with you.
▶ 1:51:18Generally, I I I I think you you're hitting on a lot a lot of very important points. Um um first off, first off, uh absolutely. Could Congress be helpful? uh right to repair data rights any congressional and we'll be happy to to work on that uh deal with our warrior right to repair act
▶ 1:51:37and and and also additional like with getting access to data uh just across the board we think is we think is important and and sometimes this is the area where we we we'd actually like help from from from the hill so I happy to continue to work with you on that uh with respect to kind of the EO absolutely um the defense industry in general has has taken notice of that.
▶ 1:52:01Uh the deputy secretary of war with secretary war and the deputy secretary war fineberg uh and secretary heath have been very supportive of us and and basically really making the contractors uh meet what they're signing up to. Right? So we are pushing hard also to make them make investments in facilitization and the other things that are necessary for them to deliver capability. Uh but at the same time, just as importantly, we are pushing hard to to grow that industry base.
▶ 1:52:28Some of the much lower cost, more rapid automated production systems are really paying great dividends, right? We're seeing a lot of some of the lowcost cruise missiles. Uh I've been very very impressed uh with that. And I would just say, uh, you know, we talk a lot about Sentinel and some of these other programs. When I opening statement, I I made a a statement that we've shortch changed because of the really the the lowest investment we've had from a GDP perspective in in in many decades. We short changed on&m, but we also short short changed modernization.
▶ 1:52:57What I say by that is when I look at the restructure of the Sentinel program, the initial figure we went in for that program was totally unexputable. We were making very unrealist because just because of the restricted budget we were trying to operate under. We made a very large number of super aggressive assumptions on how efficiently we could execute the program which were really not doable. Right? So we are making a conscious effort to not let that happen. So when we come to you and tell you what something's going to cost that's what it's going to cost.
▶ 1:53:28Right? And so that that across gentle time is expired. chair now recognized the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Fallon, for five minutes.
▶ 1:53:37Thank you, chairman. I want to congratulate you all on uh the joint service op absolute resolve. It was really uh epic raid on and historic. So, very well done and congratulations, General, and thank you for your service to the republic. Wanted to touch on four things real quickly. Mr. Secretary, uh wanted to visit with you about recruiting. It was an issue that under the prior administration we weren't hitting recruiting goals uh year-over-year and now we have.
▶ 1:54:04We've turned that corner and just wanted to visit with you very quickly on your plan to continue to make sure that we're ever vigilant because if we don't hit those numbers, we're in a world of hurt. So I have to say I feel extremely lucky to be Secretary of the Air Force. Uh I think we hit our recruiting goals five months early for five months prior to the end of the year. we have almost a couple years of of actually backlog of recruits waiting to come in to the department. So, it's a it's a really good problem to have and and we're really getting the talent to.
▶ 1:54:34So, we're going to continue to push on that and a big part of that is just making sure
▶ 1:54:38uh that that you know and the country sees that that how how important the Department of the Air Force is both space and air to our national security. Uh and then and then when we get them in make their job interesting and and rewarding and and good quality of life, good quality service. So across the board, we're we're working on that.
▶ 1:54:56U and General Wilsbach, can you talk to me about the pilot shortage and what we're doing there to address it? And what can Congress do to help you mitigate that issue?
▶ 1:55:04Um you're helping with one aspect, and that is the ability to do the max amount on the the bonus, the pilot bonus, which is effective. Um another aspect that we're looking at is more flying. And so this 27 budget gets us 10 about $10 billion for flying. the the pilots want to fly. They don't want to sit on the ground and admin. Uh so more flying hours keeps them in.
▶ 1:55:28And then the last piece is quality of life things like ability to stay at their their duty locations for longer periods of time versus moving every two or three years. And so those three things are the the the features that we think are going to help us with pilot retention and that'll in turn help with the pilot shortage. In addition to that, uh, we're meeting our goals for creating 1500 pilots per year. We did that. I was gonna ask that next.
▶ 1:55:54Yep. We did that this year and we see no issues with doing that into the future. And the the the challenge will be absorbing all those into line cockpits.
▶ 1:56:03Okay. Uh, Congressman Jackson's not here, but uh, NJ, I was stationed at Shepard, so that's in his district, and he used to be in my state senate district, so it is close and near and dear uh, to my heart. Uh, General Saltzman, uh, wanted to just visit with you a little bit on the importance of not only what we're doing in space, but in your department as far as cyber as well.
▶ 1:56:24And, uh, talk about maybe if there's things that Congress can do or, uh, hear your thoughts on recruiting not just, uh, military personnel to this the cyber realm, but also civilians that may be really talented at what we need them to do, but may not quite conform to wearing a uniform, if you know what I Well, thank you. It's uh cyber is critical. Uh in fact, it's indistinguishable from space operations. If you can't control the the networks that distribute the data, you can't do the space missions.
▶ 1:56:54Uh so we take it very seriously. In fact, in Ukraine, the the Russians their first attack was a ground attack, cyber attack against a VISAT network. So if you're vulnerable in the network, you might you're vulnerable on orbit as well. So we take it very seriously. We're doing a couple of things. uh one uh enhancing the cyber training uh from a defensive network standpoint. Um making sure that we have sensors in all of our mission systems so that we can rapidly see if there's any problems or any kind of activities on our mission systems. That's important work.
▶ 1:57:24Uh we've got two programs of record that we're trying to fully fund to make sure that we have rapid uh response to any intrusions on our network systems, especially those mission systems. But we're also trying to gain um access to the kind of expertise in the civilian world that you mentioned uh by giving constructive credit. So if you join the space force, you have cyber credibility from the outside. We try to give you that in terms of promotions early. So we might bring you in as a captain or a major.
▶ 1:57:49And so several of our officers have been brought in at accelerated rank because of the credibility they brought from the outside. So it's
▶ 1:57:55like like we do with medical.
▶ 1:57:56That's exactly right.
▶ 1:57:57Okay. And I got a little bit of time left, Mr. Secretary. I wanted to talk to you about the plane that will not die, the A-10. Uh, I remember almost maybe it was 30 years ago there was a plan to to to mothball it and yet it's still here and it still has use. Uh, what how do you see us using the A-10 in the future?
▶ 1:58:14Again, I asked for a [clears throat] little help from uh the chief here, but but generally it's in the it's in the combat search and rescue role is its primary role right now. Uh it it is a great platform uh and and we're going to keep it around uh really in many cases to provide that capability and not have a loss of capability as we replace it with with even more combat effective
▶ 1:58:37And I would say we can we can use it in a more permissive environments in really high threat environments. Um we we are challenged with having it survive and and so we would we would need to have have it be in a in a permissive environment. It's kind of like backer of the skies, you know, just anyway, real
▶ 1:58:57When I was when I was in college and and thought I might get a pilot slot, I did not. But, uh, the A10 was actually the aircraft I wanted to fly. So, that tells you a bit how long that platform's been
▶ 1:59:07And, Mr. Chairman, my time is expired. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 1:59:09Yes, sir. Thank you. Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognized the gentle lady from Maryland, Miss Alfred.
▶ 1:59:15Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. General Saltzman, thank you for your three and a half decades and your families of service to this country. We greatly appreciate it. And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to pass along to your successor. I want to align myself with Congressman Whitman's comments about Wallops Island in Virginia. While it's in his Commonwealth, about half of the employees live in Maryland.
▶ 1:59:35And so, anything that we can do to be supportive of trying to alleviate some of the pressure on the other um other assets that you have with Wallops, I want to be a part of that team. So, I I appreciate that. Um, I do want to gentlemen just touch on the fuel spill at Joint Base Andrews just briefly. Um, 22,000 gallons of jet fuel flowing uh through a creek into the PTOIC. Obviously, nobody wants that in their district, in their community, in their state. I do want to thank you both.
▶ 2:00:03Um, your staff has made themselves available to my office on many occasions to brief us on this. I know we're still kind of searching for some answers and while the investigation's underway, I just if I could have you both commit to me um to brief the full Maryland delegation when that investigation is complete.
▶ 2:00:21I appreciate that. Um just lessons learned I think are going to be important here to prevent this from happening in in future communities. Um I want to piggyback on the comments about cyber and Mr. Secretary, thank you for sitting down with the Maryland delegation last year to talk about the cyber wing um for our international defense in Maryland. Uh I I've been toying with whether I should use this pun, but we have to land that plane still uh in Maryland.
▶ 2:00:45And so we need to make sure that Milcon is there, that we're actually building out the the necessary uh home for that cyber wing as we all acknowledge cyber is becoming more and more important with every passing mission um for all of our services. I'm a little concerned though, you know, we're not quite behind the ball, but I just I need to hear both from you about what we can do to get that milcon in line. The planning is about I believe it's about 15% right now. We need to get it to 35 as quickly as possible, get that on the ground and then grow that cyber mission.
▶ 2:01:15If either of you have any thoughts on that?
▶ 2:01:17So, I believe we've actually received the 35% design bill package and we are going through the process of of reviewing that package. So, I think that's actually uh at least the feedback I got uh yesterday was that that that package is in pretty good shape. So, we are we are uh we believe we're on on track to do that. They're they're working how they're going to do the training uh for the unit, do that transition and and as you as you mentioned, as we've all mentioned, cyber is critically important and we want to make sure we get that done.
▶ 2:01:45I had a note here that said it was completed in completion due in May. So, I guess I'm just a day late.
▶ 2:01:50Guess where is May?
▶ 2:01:52Okay. Thank you. and and of course we want to work with you to to land that that plane. Um following up on the Warthog uh unfortunately Maryland lost our A-10s uh as we're gaining the cyber mission which is very important but I do especially since we had Admiral Cooper here yesterday talking about the A10s and their their unique capability particularly for him in SentCom right now and just I'm worried about this gap that we might have in capability.
▶ 2:02:16You mentioned, you know, adding that capability to other aircraft, but can you give us or this committee a sense of do you appreciate that there could be a gap and and how are we going to make sure that we are uh being seamless in that capability.
▶ 2:02:32Right. So the mission of the A10 is closeair support. Part of that subset of close air support is combat search and rescue. uh and we can do close air support and we can do combat uh or combat search and rescue support from other platforms and it's unacceptable to have a gap. If you have somebody down behind enemy lines like we saw with dude 44 bravo, you have to go get them. It's it's our
▶ 2:02:57I mean it's our duty, right? So we will not have a gap in support to cease. And I would say the the the extension uh working with the president secretary the extension and then with support from the congress uh the extension of the A10 units basically slowing down the retirement of those allows us to make sure that we we don't have a break in that capability.
▶ 2:03:20Well there's nothing like a is great but plan in the budget is even better and so making sure we are actually funding that So, this 27 budget has $10 billion for flying hours. In those flying hours, we can train to this mission.
▶ 2:03:36Okay, I appreciate that. Um, I had one further question, but I'll I'll submit it for the record just around storm water uh flooding fund stormwater funding for flooding uh across all of our bases is incredibly challenging and it's kind of pushing out uh many other priority mil projects when we have to address flooding in on the ground right now. But we will submit it for the record. So, uh with that, I yield. Gentle lady yields. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr.
▶ 2:04:07Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh thank you to our uh our great leaders here today. Uh General Salsman, thank you for having us uh at your retirement party. It's great to be here. Thank you for your service. really appreciate uh the opportunity to get to know you and to learn uh from you and to really see your leadership in action. So, congratulations on a great career.
▶ 2:04:32Uh Minnesota's home to some of our nation's most dedicated and effective guardsmen and women. The 148th Fighter Wing is cons uh consistently one of the top performing wings in the Air Guard, and it's consistently constantly called upon to support overseas missions. Uh unfortunately, the guard is sometimes overlooked by the DO despite their involvement in every major conflict and more recently operations midnight hammer uh absolute [clears throat] resolve and epic fury. Excuse me.
▶ 2:05:02Secretary Mink, I want to thank you for finalizing the OP 1617 uh basing criteria and for putting such an emphasis on unit performance and airspace. I think it is common sense that our best equipment is most utilized when put in the hands of our top soldiers. airspace plays such a crucial role in training and evaluating units. These developments are greatly appreciated.
▶ 2:05:24So with that uh I believe it's important uh I believe an important consideration is strategic location of our fighter wings although it's not mentioned in the criteria. So, Secretary uh M when developing the these criteria, did you or your staff have any discussions about the importance of aerospace control alert detachments particularly in the northern tier? Yeah.
▶ 2:05:49And uh yeah, there was a discussion and um I'm going to go back and take an even closer look to make sure that we've captured what kind of I think you're pulling out a little bit here. Uh but under strategic alignment uh units uh pulling that type of alert actually can get points. uh during the uh scoring. Uh I think it's also important that as as we go through the scoring, the wing commander and the agent general have an opportunity uh to look at how we're doing that to to make sure that we're we're doing it right.
▶ 2:06:19Um [snorts] so I I think I think we've captured that. Um but I will go back and make sure that we didn't miss him.
▶ 2:06:25I appreciate that. uh in the criteria for the op 1617 the specific details for several capacity categories such as munition storage weapon space uh they're not clearly defined and this makes it difficult to understand how inclusive the cat codes will be do you have the details for those cat codes readily available and if not would you be willing to commit to transmitting them to my office
▶ 2:06:47I can commit to providing that information but again I believe that that in my review uh yesterday that those all those things are actually captured uh within the criteria, but I'll make sure.
▶ 2:07:00Yeah, and I appreciate that. I do realize this is hot off the press information, but the 148th and the folks in Minnesota are obviously very aware and uh in tune with what's going on here and I want to be as helpful as I can be to my constituents. And again, I I will go take a look, but the things that you mentioned are pretty much core things we look at. So, I just want to make sure that I understand how they're being captured, but I'm I'm pretty confident they are.
▶ 2:07:24Yeah. just uh for you know just just to get this in your mind. The 148th Minnesota just keep saying that to yourself. Uh we uh we really value uh the men and women uh that are in the 148th and what they bring not only to the state of Minnesota but to our defense space uh nationwide worldwide and uh really honored to represent uh those folks and so I appreciate your service, appreciate uh this hearing today. And with that I yield back. Mr.
▶ 2:07:52Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Vinman. Thank you, Chairman. Uh, I want to also thank you, General Salsman, for your decades of honorable service to this country and I appreciated uh meeting you last year and uh you lead an amazing and really um a a a portion of the military that is absolutely indispensable in in modern warfare.
▶ 2:08:20and I'm I'm proud of the work that the Space Force does and the Delta that's stationed at at um Delgrren uh um naval base. So, thank you for that. Uh Secretary Mink, um thank you for your response to the bipartisan letter that Rep. Turner and I sent to you regarding the Ukrainian F-16 program.
▶ 2:08:40I want to give you an opportunity uh in this open setting to update the committee on where things stand and can you speak to how the um SAFIA is functioning as a single point of contact and whether that designation has improved coordination with uh DSCA state and European
▶ 2:08:59My understanding is is it is has improved and that those discussions are are going well. It's uh obviously there's still work to be done, but but I think the the coordination is is good.
▶ 2:09:14Okay. So, our letter flagged specific munitions shortfalls affecting F-16's operational impact. And without getting into sensitive details, can you speak generally to whether deliveries are moving in the right direction either from the United States or from NATO partners and what uh role this budget plays in sustaining that momentum? Uh yeah.
▶ 2:09:34So I can't dive into the sensitive details here, but what I would say is that uh we've leaned a way forward in supporting the deputy secretary of war and and what it to all the requests that we're we're we're getting out of out of Ukraine. Chief, do you have any No, I mean it's it's a balancing act our priorities because not only are we um helping Ukraine, but our other uh allies in the Middle East as well are getting munitions.
▶ 2:10:04So, we're we're balancing all those requests from our partners.
▶ 2:10:08Thank you for that. Sounds like there is movement in the right direction. So, I want to turn my attention now uh General Willsbach to um the flying hours program. And so the FY27 budget is a $1.8 billion increase to that program. Is that accurate?
▶ 2:10:27And that program sustains 1.1 million uh flying hours.
▶ 2:10:31Correct. cross um critical missions as u 300,000 hours for training platforms like the T7, 230,000 almost for combat uh air force platforms like F-22 and F-35 and then 306,000 for the global global mobility. Is that is that accurate?
▶ 2:10:55I'd have to go back and look exactly at those that they're they're in the
▶ 2:10:59Okay, I think those are generally accurate. I mean 1.8 billion is a lot of money. And the reason why that um that amount struck me is because um the president sued his own government um and then directed his attorney general to settle the lawsuit for that exact amount of money. And I've been getting phone calls actually for the last uh day or so, dozens of phone calls about this friends and family slush fund.
▶ 2:11:30And general, I I fear that given that we have a finite amount of money in our budget that um we may not be able to provide the hundreds of thousands of of hours, flying hours for readiness they're going to a slush fund. We have a finite amount of money, American taxpayer hard-earned money going into the into the government fisk could be spent on national security, which is a measure like this, literally 1.8 8 billion.
▶ 2:11:59The same amount of money could be spent on health care. It could be spent on um it could be spent on food nutrition programs. That's a significant amount of money. Unfortunately, this president in an act of corruption I think never before seen in the history of this country has decided to create a friends and family slush fund.
▶ 2:12:21And oh, by the way, as part of the settlement, also uh directed his own attorney general to never investigate him or his two sons business. So that $1.8 billion of uh taxpayer money has been allocated and uh I'm I'm not sure we have it in the budget, but thank you. With that, I yield back.
▶ 2:12:43Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Guam, Mr. Mand.
▶ 2:12:47Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our panel, sir. Mr. Secretary, little story there. I remember what we went through, but I really appreciate the opportunity to be in front of you folks and I thank you for uh your service to our nation, our states, and our territories and the homeland. So, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, Mr. Secretary, I appreciate you coming on out to Guam. I think it was early on in your assignment.
▶ 2:13:12It was one of your first trips and we had the opportunity to literally hang out together in the back of a plane open bay and just dangling our feet out there as we traveled across the islands. It was a good experience for you. I hope and I I did that once and I'm good.
▶ 2:13:27So, [laughter] but I appreciate you coming on out and and realizing the importancy of of the islands and you were able to also see the um the massive buildup we're having there and and I'm sure you understand the importancy of our workforce since we don't get it from the mainland and our workforce is not uh there with the visa waiverss as apple pickers. We have H1 workforce there.
▶ 2:13:51Uh um skilled engineers and doctors and nurses that we rely on because of our shortage of expertise and H2B workers there as well during the um buildup in construction that we got going. Um but yet we have difficulties uh maintaining uh our long term.
▶ 2:14:12We uh we had to go back and forth uh with our um different budgets that we have to ensure we can have them in the long run too for the completion of this important mission uh for the success of our our nation. Uh and most recently we have uh some issue with our H1.
▶ 2:14:31Uh I understand the uh we want uh US workers of course to uh to be hired in the US but unfortunately we don't have that uh luxury on on Guam most western soil so close out there uh to Asia and the Pacific and it costs an additional $100,000 for now the H1s uh to come and get reassigned and plays a big role in with our contractors that are on base and building uh and it's just going to increase the cost which will passed
▶ 2:15:01on to um department of uh department of war or the different branches as well. So I I just your opinion on on also the the importancy that we maintain this workforce and what projects do you see them assigned to and the importancy of us continuing that workforce. Mr.
▶ 2:15:22so I I don't I can go into the specifics on what projects uh they would be assigned to. Um obviously Guam is going to continue to be a critically important uh location for us is as you know uh very well the amount of capability we have there and the amount of additional capability and and and and it just geographic location would be critical and how we talk about agile combat employment.
▶ 2:15:45Uh, so we are willing to I'm willing to work with you however we can help on on on the workforce uh and and what other innovative things we can do from a military construction and FSRM out there. So really appreciate your support and be happy to work with you on that. Right.
▶ 2:16:04Thank you. [snorts] Thank you very much. Uh General Wilsbach. Uh speaking of SR uh S F SRM and Milcon in the FY27 budget um there there's that increase of course and looking at Anderson Air Force Base for Guam, the strategic location, the importancy, the most western soil.
▶ 2:16:25Um how much of that increase funding do you see going to Anderson Air Force Base and what projects could you highlight for I'll have to get the first of all half a day, but I'll have to get you the uh the details for Anderson specific. Uh the in general what I would what I would like to see at Anderson is things that help us to improve the readiness of the of the island and and also um of our base there at Anderson.
▶ 2:16:55Uh thank you. Final question, General Sman. I remember the first day I saw you. I said, "This guy is sharp, man." and still this day you're still you're still very sharp. I appreciate your service sir. Uh also uh the other day we heard from Centriccom and and they said how important it was for a space force to uh be part of that and I'm hoping that Indoaccom that's the same importancy that we have there.
▶ 2:17:19So for uh in Guam uh you know we had the Marine Corps, we got the Navy, we got the Air Force, uh we have the Army, Coast Guard, merchant marines, but we don't have space forces there. You know, if if you think in just a couple of seconds there is that something we can see for the build out the buildout that you're planning to come to Guam.
▶ 2:17:40It's we're hard to see sometimes in plain sight, but we we do have capability there. don't have a lot of people uh necessary, but we have the remote tracking stations uh there at Guam and we plan to put additional capabilities there as well. So, Space Force presence is definitely on Guam. It's strategic for us as well.
▶ 2:17:55Thank you, sir. Yeah, I've had a chance to visit with several of the guardians in Guam and uh we we are there. We're going to we're going to grow it though. With that, uh chair recognizes gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Bale.
▶ 2:18:07Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Uh, General, I echo uh my colleagues remarks. Thank you for your service. Um, I'm proud that my district has become a major hub for the development and production of some of our nation's most advanced aircraft as well as cutting edge UAS and counter UAS capabilities.
▶ 2:18:31We're proud to have Scott Air Force Base just across the Mississippi River, home to Air Mobility Command, the major command responsible uh for providing global airlift, aerial refueling, aeromedical evacuation, and mobility support operations that rapidly project and sustain US military forces worldwide. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The St. Louis region is a sleeping giant. St.
▶ 2:18:59Lewis is already playing a leading role in supporting our national security today while also helping develop and produce the solutions needed to address the threats of tomorrow. Aircraft development and production remain an anchor of our economy and industrial base, but defense technology, AI, GEO, GOINT, and advanced capabilities are increasingly at the center of that growth.
▶ 2:19:28At a time when our air force and installations across the Middle East face persistent threats from small and medium-sized drones, recognizing, investing in, and accelerating these capabilities is more important now than ever. The Air Force has a responsibility to keep aircraft, munitions, fuel, and command nodes protected so it can continue generating combat power even under persistent drone attack.
▶ 2:19:56We need fieldready capabilities that can move quickly, integrate seamlessly, and protect highv value assets. Now, Secretary Mink and General Wilsbach, the Army has worked with a variety of industry partners to develop potential counter UAS solutions, including the mobile low slow small unmanned aircraft integrated defeat system.
▶ 2:20:19Will you commit to ex accelerating the field the fielding of proven mobile counter UAS capabilities leveraging work already being done across the joint force and assure this committee that the department is prioritizing rapid and scalable deployment using existing production ready systems.
▶ 2:20:40Um yes, Congressman I I appreciate your emphasis on this. I've been talking about this for years and in fact um in Epic Fury we actually did leverage some of the army programs and put them at air
▶ 2:20:52Thank you.
▶ 2:20:55Yeah, it needs to be again nuclear deterrence and and cyber are are some of the biggest threats that we face. But uh defending our air bases not only overseas but but in the homeland is is is becoming increasing high priority. Um and we are working closely with uh OSD, you know, uh OSD and joint staff to to and the various task forces that we've set up to really focus on delivering this capability.
▶ 2:21:24And I think we agree 100% is the the airmen and guardians have a responsibility to defend our our air bases, defend our our forces, uh regardless of where they are. And we are focusing on all the way from electronic warfare to to uh directed energy to to kinetic uh capabilities to defend defend our airmen and guardians. Um, Secretary Mink and General Wilsbach again.
▶ 2:21:48Recent reporting and the president's budget requests indicate that the Air Force is looking to explain ex expand, excuse me, the Plan 15EX Eagle 2 fleet to help maintain fighter capacity during the transition to next generation platforms. Can you discuss the role F-15X is expected to play in the Air Force's broader fighter roadmap?
▶ 2:22:13Yes, Congressman. The F-15EX um will be an air superiority um fighter and um it's actually not necessarily a bridge to something else. It's to fill in a gap. Most of our fifth and sixth gen or all of our fifth gen and sixth gen aircraft carry their weapons internally which negates the ability to carry really big weapons and that's what the F-15 does.
▶ 2:22:38And so the F-15 EX will be an air superiority aircraft that will be able to carry really long range missiles and it also will have an airto ground capability as well. It can carry just like the F-15E can carry some very heavy munitions and so we get um some big bang for our buck there.
▶ 2:22:57I'll I'll my time is up so I'll submit my questions but thank you all. Yield
▶ 2:23:02Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Texas, Dr.
▶ 2:23:06Uh thank you Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you gentlemen for being here today. Appreciate your time. Uh before we get started, General, I I want to also thank you for taking time to meet with the uh Shepard Military Affairs Committee and members of the Witchaw Falls community during their recent DC flyin. That was much appreciated. Thank you. Um during [clears throat] my most recent visit Air Force Base, a pressing issue came to my attention. Currently, Air Force installation unit manpower document authorizations.
▶ 2:23:30The UMD primarily reflects uh reflect permanently assigned personnel and there is no requirement to account for the sustained support demands generated by large rotational student populations. As a result, major training installations like Shepard which produce 48% which produces 48% of our tech training graduates and 50% of all US fighter pilots experienced severe manpower shortfalls relative to their actual day-to-day workload.
▶ 2:23:54For example, the 82nd Medical Group at Shepard must provide care for more than half of the Air Force's annual throughput of airmen in training as well as for student pilots in the Euro NATO Euron NATO jet pilot training program. Yet, none of these rotational trainees captured in the base's UMD authorizations. General, [clears throat] is the Air Force open to a new approach that properly resources the workload generated by rotational student populations?
▶ 2:24:20Specifically, what are your thoughts on integrating an installation's average daily load, the ADL, the steadystate population physically present and requiring installation support into UMD authorizations to improve manpower planning for essential services like housing, medical care, logistics, security, and base operations?
▶ 2:24:39Um, yes, Congressman agree. Uh, they they do have a lot of folks there. And in fact, um, just in March, we author authorized some special pay increases for the staff that's that's there at um, Sheepard so that um, we, you know, one, we can keep more people there uh, so that, um, they can support support the base.
▶ 2:25:00Um, it's um, a 35% uh, increase for GS uh, 11 and 12 and then a lesser increase for for higher ranked structures. But um agree with you that we we need to do something and and this these measures will help us with that to keep the the base population that's there working while we have additional people there going through training.
▶ 2:25:25Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's key. I mean paying them more money. My second question is going to come is going to address a little bit of that as well. But we need more bodies too. I think, you know, just uh with my previous example with the having been in in the in the medical core for a while, uh you know, it's uh it it's it's difficult to retain people when they're in that environment where they're so overwhelmed with the you know, the number of patient the number of people that they're responsible for every day because they're just short bodies. So, yeah,
▶ 2:25:48agreed. And the 27 budget also allows for [clears throat] an increase in the total end strength of the Air Force. And as we look at where there are needs, because we'll have those extra bodies that will be funded, we'll be able to apply those in places where we're
▶ 2:26:03Perfect. I got one more quick question here and then I have two questions I'm going to submit for the record for you, Mr. Secretary. But, uh, I'm conc uh I'm increasingly concerned by the declining manning levels for the civilian simulator instructors, particularly at Shepard Air Force's BA Base's 80th flying training wing, home to the EuroNATO Jet Pilot Training Program. An aging workforce and rising retirements are creating critical shortages of these instructors directly threatening our pilot generation pipeline.
▶ 2:26:28Because these GS positions comp compete directly with the private sector, namely commercial aviation and advanced tech industry. Stark pay and benefit disparities as well as slow hiring timelines severely limit the Air Force's ability to recruit talent. left unressed. This short this shortage will force reductions in class loading, worsening the Air Force's broader pilot shortfall. Mr. Secretary, are you and your team aware of this growing challenge?
▶ 2:26:54And how can the Air Force, whether through direct hire authority, expanded use of special salary rates, recruitment incentives, retention allowances, or other targeted hiring flexibilities, mitigate this issue and help ensure consistent instructor manning at critical training like Shepard? Yeah, thanks, Congressman. I I think I'd point out two things.
▶ 2:27:15The first is we're we're actually delegating uh uh civilian hiring authority down uh to the center level or below in some cases to actually accelerate across the board hiring and make that easier and faster so that when people do apply, they're not sitting around forever waiting to get waiting to get picked up. Uh and then secondly that as as General Wilsbach mentioned uh we are looking at incentive bonuses or incentive pay um across the the ranks to to bring people on and keep them.
▶ 2:27:42Yes sir. I think that's going to be key and I'm willing to help in in any way I can in making that happen. Uh I have two questions I'm going to submit for the record. One uh is related to uh the MH139 and the plan to uh put H60s into a program here to shuttle uh folks around in the NCR. And the last the last question will involve the T7, but I'll I don't have time to ask these questions, so I'll submit these for the record. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:28:05Gent yields back to your recognized gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crow.
▶ 2:28:09Thank you, chairman. Thank you to all of you for joining today. Appreciate your your service and your testimony. A special thank you to General Saltzman uh for your long and honorable and incredible career uh in service to the country. Uh and as a founding chair of the the Space Force Caucus, it's been a real delight to work with you. actually over the last couple of years. We haven't always agreed uh but we've done great work together. We've had some good debates together, but you always come informed, uh committed, transparent, and and I can always work with that.
▶ 2:28:38So grateful for your your work. So for old times sake, you know, I have to raise uh which was one of those things we disagreed on and and uh Secretary Mink um I I lost that battle. I fought it uh on a bipartisan basis. every every uh tag, every governor joined me and expressed some concerns about it. Uh you all got it passed in the NDAA. So now we're just trying to implement it the best we can and address it.
▶ 2:29:04And one of the concerns that uh the TAGs and governors and and um we raised was this issue of some guardsmen and women falling through the cracks. Uh and unfortunately that is actually happening a little bit in the states. Uh so I sent you a letter uh Secretary Mink May 18th.
▶ 2:29:22Every uh every member of the Colorado delegation, Republican and Democrats, signed on to this and joined me because we have almost 400 guardsmen and women who are kind of in limbo now who haven't been many of whom haven't been remissioned who have decided not to join the space force who are committed to the state mission. you know, these are citizen soldiers and a lot of them are really committed to being citizen soldiers and want to do the state mission as well as the federal and they just don't want to be in the space force for a variety of reasons.
▶ 2:29:51So, can I have your commitment, secretary, that you'll look at this letter, that you'll respond to it, and you'll work with us to try to figure out how we can get these guardsmen and women missions and get them working and and keep everyone happy. So, I'll I'll I'll look at the letter, Congressman, and I know we've had a number of discussions on this, but I I do want to reiterate that that that the state will not lose guard positions. Those bills are staying there.
▶ 2:30:17Uh I think what you're you're poking at a little bit is is we need to get on with that remissioning to just make people have a better understanding of where they fit and and and how they want to participate. So, so we're working with the local guards to do that, not just Colorado, but across the board. Uh but but again I want to reiterate that the states are are not losing billets with respect to guards. Those who didn't transfer those billets are staying. Uh we just need to get them remission to to get the people back.
▶ 2:30:43I appreciate that. And and there's actually no dispute. I'm not disputing your commitment to that. But we just want to get them working. We want to get them a mission. We've lost 14 of them is my understanding already to retirements. Them saying, you know, I'm not going to just sit around and not do anything transferred to other units. We just want to make sure we're doing right by them and their families and giving them some certainty. So I appreciate that commitment.
▶ 2:31:03Um the last last piece um Secretary Mink is Buckley Space Force Base has been selected as a preferred site for the nuclear micro reactor as part of the Air Force's advanced nuclear power installations initiative. This is exciting. Uh this is something that I've I've supported the research and development on.
▶ 2:31:19Uh obviously power is a problem and you know rate payers in Colorado like many places pay way too much and taking uh Buckley's um energy off of the grid will will help relieve rateayer pressure uh and also assure resiliency but we do want to make sure it's the right thing. You talk about micro reactors uh understandably everyone in the community has questions and and they want engagement and I raised my kids just a couple of miles from Buckley as well.
▶ 2:31:48So, uh, the bottom line is I want to be able to support this. This is a good initiative, but I I just want the Air Force's commitment that you'll work with us, my office, and the senator's offices in Colorado to do robust community engagement.
▶ 2:32:01I think this is key is making sure we're meeting with the local counties, the cities, city councilors, the neighborhood associations to put information out there, answer people's questions, and just do really robust engagement on the front end so that uh uncertainty and any anxiety about this is is addressed.
▶ 2:32:21Absolutely willing to to work with you on on that and in the communication plans. I I I'm a big supporter. I I believe in many ways that that that's the future. Um I I was actually out in California last week and and spent a few hours with the contractor that's delivering that reactor radiant. Uh that that is it's about as safe as power sources as as you can come up with.
▶ 2:32:47It's just amazing the levels of of safety they have just inherent within within that approach. Um I'd put it outside my
▶ 2:32:56No problem. I understand that it's small enough you can hug it, although that's not recommended. [laughter]
▶ 2:33:01You you you it's not quite that small, but uh but uh actually you could hug it. It would be totally recommen it's basically inert for all practical purposes from the outside.
▶ 2:33:11Okay. Well, we look forward to working with you. I yield back.
▶ 2:33:13Great. And and I'm a big proponent of it as well. It is the future and we got to get on with I'm thrilled to hear Buckley's one of the places going to be part of that pilot program. Gentleman from Virginia is recognized.
▶ 2:33:23Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witness for being here and General Assultman, thank you for your incredible service. I've only known about the Space Force since I've been in about 17 months and you've been the face of it. One of the things we do as members of Congress is we have servicemies every year and I noticed that this year we had a large number of people interested in the Space Force. So, I'm looking forward to learning more from you guys so I can share that with those guys. Just a question for you, General Saltzman. Operations Midnight Hammer, Absolute Resolve, and Epic Fury.
▶ 2:33:51How critical was Space Force towards the success of those incredible missions? And could they have done it without Space Force?
▶ 2:34:00We have a pretty incredible joint force. Uh so never put anything past them, but I think all of them would agree that with the addition of the space capabilities that were provided, it just made it a little bit easier to get the mission accomplished. So whether it was integrated into the planning out of the outset, cutting off uh key uh sally communications that our adversaries were trying to use, whether that was for their own drone capabilities or command and control, uh we were we were there to to to try to deny those and we did a pretty good job of it.
▶ 2:34:28Probably the most important thing though is the the targeting capabilities that we provide as well as the warning uh of the missiles that are inbound and the tracking of those missiles uh put up a pretty capable defense. So whether it was in planning, in execution or in defense of our forces, the space force was right there supporting.
▶ 2:34:45We appreciate it. Um so this is a question for um either maybe maybe the secretary is how important is the uh Anderall CC the advanced fighter. What is the uh CCF CCF? How important how do you say it?
▶ 2:35:01CCA collaborative combat aircraft.
▶ 2:35:03That's it. How how effective is a CCA and how does it compare to our I think well it's going to be very effective. Uh we I'm a huge fan of the program. Two contractors Andrew and GA both of them are doing a great job. I think it's going to be a a a massive costefficient force multiplier for our our combat our combat air force.
▶ 2:35:29I think I think again both contractors are already flying and demonstrating in in in exercises or other activities. Uh with respect to our our adversaries, I I don't know probably can't go into the details, but I don't know of anything that is approaching uh what we're doing, but maybe have General Wilsbach add a few comments about it.
▶ 2:35:50Well, he's exactly right. We we see some evidence that they're pursuing what we've already got flying, but they're years behind us. And you've only had a few questions this week about the A-10, but talking to operators from all all branches, they just say that 100% of every operator says it's it's the best thing that we could have when you need help on the ground close air support, especially combat search and rescue. Do we have any other aircraft currently that can match the capabilities of the A-10 Warthog?
▶ 2:36:20Well, MA match is probably in the eye of the beholder. Um, we have other aircraft that are capable of doing closeair support and um certainly can support combat search and rescue.
▶ 2:36:31Well, I'm glad you guys decided to keep that going until 2030. I would until we see something that's capable, I'd like to see it go further. Is finding spare parts, getting spare parts going to be a challenge over the next couple of years?
▶ 2:36:44Uh, I don't think so. especially with the 27 budget and the uh the dollars that we have uh for flying hours and weapon system sustainment. But for the A10, it's not that we're keeping all of the A10s. We are still retiring some of them and we'll keep up to three squadrons into 2030. What that allows us to do is fleet manage. And so as you have aircraft that get to the end of their life, uh we can use them for parts, send them to the boneyard. And so the ones that you keep flying are going to be sustained.
▶ 2:37:14you this may not be a a necessary thing or a possible thing, but if some some reason you wanted to go to the boneyard and reactivate some of those aircraft in the future, is that a
▶ 2:37:24Yes, we actually just did that with a KC135 about two weeks ago.
▶ 2:37:28Awesome. What about the uh the B-21? How's our progress looking on that?
▶ 2:37:33It's uh it's going very well. Uh you probably saw the news. We just recently did the first air refueling. We're quite happy with the progress that Northrup is making. Uh we've also asked them to increase the production rate from 10 aircraft uh at a time to 12. So they're in the process of uh getting to that. So we're quite pleased with it.
▶ 2:37:52What's the status of the F-15? I think you call it EX, the newest version.
▶ 2:37:55Correct. U it's it's uh it's going well. It's a fantastic aircraft. Uh the ones we've received, I would like to see Boeing uh meet their contractual obligation of two per month. And
▶ 2:38:07have you used any of them yet? Combat?
▶ 2:38:09Uh no. Awesome. Well, I appreciate your service and with that, I yield back.
▶ 2:38:15Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from California, Mr.
▶ 2:38:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you to our witnesses for uh joining us uh today. Um I represent California's 27th district, as you probably know, which is home to plan 42, uh where the future of American air power is being built, the B21 Raider. Thank you, uh Congressman, for uh asking some of my questions. will be a cornerstone of our nuclear deterrent and a powerful signal to adversaries that the United States will always be able to reach and defeat any threat anywhere.
▶ 2:38:47Um, right next door sits Lockheed Skunkworks, the birthplace of the U2, the SR71 and the F-17. For decades, Skunkworks has produced breakthroughs that no adversary can anticipate and no competitor could match. That traditional tradition of bold classified in innovation is a national security asset and one we must continue to leverage. Um, we are eager to learn at the right time what the ultimate production goals for the B-21 program will be. I note the Secretary of Defense stated to Hask we need a lot more.
▶ 2:39:17Indopaccom commander Paparo said to Hask I favor 200. Stratcom commander Carell said we need 145 not including the joint force requirements. I also note the Air Force comments last week that a process is underway and welcome any updates they can provide in the department's reassessment. Mr. Secretary, are there any comments you'd like to make to the committee on your current plans for the program? Again, the program is going well. Uh again, these are all very complicated and extremely capable systems.
▶ 2:39:44Uh it's great that we have essentially two of them flying and and one's done done some air refueling and uh they are in build of production aircraft uh in many forms right now. So, it all looks good. Uh we are working closely with thanks to some congressional help uh with congressional ads uh to increase production. We are working to to be honest, we're working to squeeze as much out of the facilitization that we can. Um it's going to be a long-term production. No question about it.
▶ 2:40:14Uh but u I don't know if I can go to the specifics on the numbers, but but we are squeezing every little bit of production out of them that we can and work closely with the contractor to do that. uh with respect to the requirements yeah the the chairman uh signed up to taking a look at the requirements and we are working closely with them and all the customers and you know that's a dual use platform both nuclear and conventional so we got to work with the whole uh global strike and Stracom to to to work through that requirement set we're doing that now I I think it would be safe to say that that it will be more than
▶ 2:40:44a hundred uh how many I think more than 100 we're working our way through
▶ 2:40:49thank you Mr. Secretary, um, I'd like to turn my comments to wildfire. Uh, I'm tracking the rapid evolution of our space-based assets with great interest. Um, the threat to military installations in the American West is getting bigger every year. We've seen this clearly in recent large fires, including the Canyon Fire, which threatened Vandenberg Space Force Base, 12,000 acres, Waldo Canyon, US Air Force Academy, 18,000 acres, Fort Cavo, Cavazos uh training range, um uh and others.
▶ 2:41:20Uh and of course, there's the the civil impact. The Palisades and Eaton fires in Southern California uh caused $50 billion of damage. and the his historically the Department of Defense and and other agencies have recognized that keeping bases safe and the homeland safe includes supporting civilian authorities uh during domestic emergencies. Uh the DoD has built an undeniable track record in wildfire mitigation through targeted programs like Firehawk, Eagle Vision, and of course, Fire Guard.
▶ 2:41:49Uh the basic principle is defense resources can be uh applied to support uh defense of bases and and uh also civilian um assets when disa disaster strikes. Um there are a few different ways to do this. Um but I'd just love to get your top level commitment to helping us use the assets that we have. um including potentially procurement mechanisms around um commercial data.
▶ 2:42:19There there are these new platforms that are coming on. Um General, you've taken advantage of some of these and I think your acquisition efforts in that respect are really to be complimented. It's exactly the right direction. We'd love to get your commitment um to helping us advance the security of our bases and our frontline communities uh in the American West um through creative techniques. Um, General Szman or Secretary, would you like to make any comment to that?
▶ 2:42:44Well, I'll start. Um, we're absolutely committed to that and I think it starts with understanding what the capabilities are that are out there in the commercial marketplace and then having contract mechanisms that can be rapidly put in place when the emergency arises. So, we're focusing on that service provider, that's our commercial space office, building out the contract vehicles so that we can rapidly pull them in and then evaluating the technologies as the commercial marks makes them available. Uh, whether it's imagery or or otherwise.
▶ 2:43:10Um, but our our Vandenberg Fire Department has has spent a lot of time on the road fighting fires and I think they've been great partners of the community. Uh,
▶ 2:43:18gentleman's time's expired. Chair, I recognize gentleman from uh, Indiana, Mr. Mesmer, and we have already been called for votes. So, let's try to make sure we can get through this.
▶ 2:43:26Okay. Thank you for witnesses for being here today and thank you chairman. General Wilsbach, can you give an update on the development and testing of the AGM 183 um, ARW and Hackom programs? Um yes, Congressman, they're obviously um both both are included in this 27 budget. We we um are actually trying to um double the production of the arrow from previous years. Uh the testing so far is um promising.
▶ 2:43:56We've got some test shots um coming up and we'll learn more.
▶ 2:43:59Okay. Thank you. seen in a publicly released photo of the B1B uh Lancer bomber carrying an arrow over Edwards Air Force Base. When should the committee expect procurement program lines to begin to begin for Arrow?
▶ 2:44:14Well, they've they've already really
▶ 2:44:16Good. Okay, very good. Uh what manufacturing capability limits are preventing the Air Force from buying hypersonic weapons in more meaningful There's a lot of uh facilitization. There's the supply chain. Um there's the commitment from the uh contractors in the defense industrial base to to move out. Um and these are the discussions that we've been having uh with them as a part of the executive order we got from the president.
▶ 2:44:47should be.
▶ 2:44:47I think what I I think what I'd add is in munitions across the board, especially in some of these these hypersonic weapons, the the as the as the general said, stability, long-term stability so that they can facilitize and and do the R&D necessarily, get those weapons to a cost point that we can actually afford large numbers of them is critical. Uh this is another one of the areas where multi-year and other long-term contracts are really, really important.
▶ 2:45:14you know, use of long-term contracts sends the demand signal that the industry should need. Thank you. Secretary Mink, what is the update on the next generation responsive strike program known as XRS? For the last several years, the NDA has included language expressing our support and interest in a reusable hypersonic
▶ 2:45:35I I can get you uh uh maybe more details on where we stand and in a different environment. Uh but the the basic R&D activities look promising. Um but there's still work to do.
▶ 2:45:47Okay. Uh can you give us a picture of what budgeting for reusable hypersonic aircraft technologies might look like over the next few years?
▶ 2:45:54I have to get back to you on that. I don't know that one off the top of my
▶ 2:45:56Okay. Thank you. Secretary Mink. Last year the department argued that the E7 was not survivable enough and that other sensors could assume uh more of an airborne early warning mission. Since then, Congress has kept the program alive and and now the Air Force has seven aircraft under contract. What change in the department's assessment of the E7's value and what gaps would remain if the Air Force does not sustain the FY27 funding?
▶ 2:46:22Uh, so our plan is to submit a a budget adjustment to fund the FY27 and as we do the FY28 build to to to lay in the outyear uh production of of the seven aircraft you mentioned. Uh what's changed? It's it's actually it's pretty simple, Congressman. Um when the decision to cut the program was made, we were looking at an 8.90 topline at the DOW level. Uh there were a lot of programs that were valuable that were being cut. Uh that was one of them.
▶ 2:46:50Um we knew we needed the space-based AMTI for a whole host of reasons we could talk about uh quite a while on, but the bottom line was is at the 890 point, we we could not afford it and a lot of important programs were being cut. Now that we have more budget flexibility, we are working with you uh and up through the the executive branch to get it back into budget.
▶ 2:47:12Excellent. Uh Secretary Mink, if the department supports Golden Dome and a more resilient sensing architecture, should Congress think about the E7 as part of that layered architecture rather than a standalone aircraft?
▶ 2:47:25I I guess I would leave the specifics of of the Golden Gnome strategy to General Gut line. uh but my understanding is is that it would be a part of homeland of of support of the coast uh with the uh the capability in that platform. So
▶ 2:47:38super. Thank you.
▶ 2:47:39It will be a multi-use platform
▶ 2:47:41Okay. Uh Secretary Mink districts like Indiana's 8th district have deep radar electronic warfare and electron electromagnetic spectrum expertise through NWSC crane and local industry. As understand the air force is buying 737 green aircraft from Boeing and then doing the retrofitting of those airframes. Okay. As the Air Force expands the program, would it not benefit from leveraging our domestic industrial base and do that work in the
▶ 2:48:08I think there's some work going on in the UK. Um part of the part of it uh part of the um the installation is going on in the UK and part of it is is is going on here. Uh it's again it's one of those joint programs, right?
▶ 2:48:24Okay. I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 2:48:25J recognize from North Carolina, Mr. Harrian. Uh thank you chairman and gentlemen. Great to see you before Congress again. I'm going to keep this short because we all got to get the votes. Uh it's been said that the next great terror attack on our homeland will be like 9/11 without martyrs. Uh the without martyrs part referring to lowcost, highly autonomous drone aircraft. We all know that this is a great threat. Uh both General Wilsbach in the Air Force and General Salsman at the Space Force have been working hard uh to counter this threat.
▶ 2:48:55Can you talk about some of the work that you all have done to counter this threat and can you qualify how much more work we still have yet to do to protect our homeland against this threat? Uh so since Epic Fury started, we've really rushed capability to the Middle East and uh as I mentioned earlier, we had some army systems that we um installed in some of our bases to protect those air bases, but even domestically uh we've also rushed several systems out to key
▶ 2:49:26bases u with um high priority weapons that are stored there so that those bases um are covered as well. This includes domain awareness, um additional non-kinetic, um some some also directed energy in some places as well. Uh we have a lot more work to do because so far we've only covered down on a few of our bases and frankly we need to cover them all. And very quickly, obviously the smaller the the the threat, the harder it is to see from space.
▶ 2:49:56But we focused on uh putting the data network in place at at scale around the globe so we can rapidly move once something's detected, rapidly move the data, the track to the decision maker where anector can take advantage of it. U so we try to play our part even if we can't detect it fully from space with that size. And last point of clarification, how is the coordination between the Department of War and other government agencies that are tasked with dealing with this threat? Uh where's where's it working? Where is it lacking?
▶ 2:50:27We actually just um had a one-week conference and we actually brought the entire you know inter agency together. So we had you know multiple agencies together trying to solve this problem. So I feel like the coordination is really good. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:50:44Chair recognized gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Van Orton.
▶ 2:50:47Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I um as a life lifetime Navy man, Mr. Secretary, I'm going to just ask for for the love of all that is holy, do not give the Army nuclear weapons. Just just don't. Thank you. Dear Lord. Um, I'm very proud to represent the 126th Combat Weather Flight and the 128th Air Control Squadron at Voke Field and uh, the guys that live over in Madison fly their F-35s there.
▶ 2:51:17It's u, it's a fantastic facility. Can you tell me what percentage of our deployed forces at any given time are reser and national guards, guardsmen and women?
▶ 2:51:30I think I'm going to have to call on a friend for that. Do you know that number off the top of your head? I don't but um it's increasingly more.
▶ 2:51:37You know, back back when you were serving, you know, a much higher preponderance of the force was active duty. And as we've gone forward in time, you know, more and more our guard and reserve and and frankly, Congressman, you know, we can't tell the difference between Guard and Reserve and active duty, which is fantastic. Um and they um are allowing us to do missions all over the all over the world.
▶ 2:52:00Specifically in in epic fury right now there's a high a higher percentage than probably in recent past um of guard and the reserves
▶ 2:52:09general unfortunately often times we can tell the difference between the two when it comes to the budget
▶ 2:52:15and when it comes to equipment this is more so an issue with rotary ring in the army but I just want to make sure that our national guards men and women and our reser have the most up-to-date equipment to train so that when they do forward deploy that they are mission capable immediately. And I I I really respect their service because they they do something that we don't do.
▶ 2:52:41They got a day job and then all of a sudden they got to leave their home and it's it's really it can be very uh disconcerting for them. Um I would in the future like to see your senior enlisted leaders with you. I notice that they're not here. Um, it it'd be good to have them around just so we can, you know, slap hands and whatnot. Um, I want to talk about the A-10. So, the F-35, you know, what does the unit cost for an F-35? 80 to $110 million.
▶ 2:53:10What's the unit cost for an A-10 adjusted for inflation? I know we haven't built since the 80s.
▶ 2:53:17It's I I I'd have to go do the math, but it's considerably less than an F-35. And what's the flight error cost for a F-35 up to $40,000?
▶ 2:53:27It's it's probably not quite that high, but it could be. But the A10 is certainly less.
▶ 2:53:33Okay. At loiter time for the F-35,
▶ 2:53:40depending on basing,
▶ 2:53:41yeah, obviously, but um, it's it's short it's shorter than the A10.
▶ 2:53:45Okay. So, having been on the ground as a United States Navy Seal in combat, loiter time matters. The these other we can work with the cost. You know, the budgets there, but we have to we have to have the ability to have somebody sitting around with a GA 8 with,200 rounds vice a G 22 alpha and a F-35 with 200 rounds, which which has had issues with um accuracy. So, we cannot have a gap.
▶ 2:54:13I know that you're working towards Um, and I I I'm no longer an operator. It's obvious I'm, you know, fat as a house and got a white beard now, but uh all of my friends are still and our children are at this point. So, we cannot have a gap in close air support, a close air support platform that will be able to kill the enemy that is in that hallway vice dropping something from an F-35. And I know you care about the men and women in the military.
▶ 2:54:43I know you do too, General. Um, so let's just make sure that does not happen. And for the sake of brevity, I will say congratulations on your retirement. Uh, this is not turkey, so you probably won't be going to prison. [laughter] And that's a great thing. So, God bless you and the the folks that you watch off
▶ 2:54:59Gentleman yields back. Uh, I want to thank the uh panelists. Uh, you did a great job and I will tell you, you got a lot of love today from this committee. That doesn't happen with all the services. So, way to go. Thank you. You've been very helpful. We're journed.