▶ 0:00:02T quorum is present. Without objection. The chairman declare a recess at any time. Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain open for five legislative days, so members may submit any additional materials they wish to be included therein. Thank you, ranking member morelli, members of the committee in our witness for participating in today's hearing. Mr. austin, welcome back to the committee on house administration. Under your two years of leadership, we've seen a lot of positive changes on the capitol campus, both in management and the infrastructure.
▶ 0:00:29The architect architect of the capitol has broad responsibilities, as we all know, and deals with unique challenges every day. I'm eager to hear about your recommendations and how we can continue to improve the aoc's operations and learn lessons from the past. I'll start with the recently completed cannon building renewal project. While I know I speak for pretty much everybody on campus and saying, we're pleased to see this project finally coming to a close. Uh, there's definitely, I think, some tough lessons that we can also learn from that long construction project.
▶ 0:01:01Uh, as congress debates future large scale projects like this, uh, my primary goal is to ensure that we're good stewards of taxpayer resources. Mr. austin, that's exactly why your perspective today, I think, is so critical. Uh, look at if we look at the first at the cannon renewal project. Uh, the total cost was $971 million. Uh, that's 200 million, uh, increase from the original 2009 estimate.
▶ 0:01:27Uh, and I think some of those lessons are critical as we turn to the potential renewal or rebuild of the rayburn building. That renovation must prioritize financial discipline, uh, and completing the project on time. On time, under budget, uh, of course, is the goal. The rayburn building, uh, plays a significant role for this institution. It houses nearly 200 member offices, committee hearing rooms, suites, skiffs, uh, three levels of parking, uh, and even capitol police firing range.
▶ 0:01:57Unfortunately, despite never being a newer building, despite being a newer building, uh, it's in far greater need of renovation, uh, than the longworth building. According to our experts, cost estimates, including swing space construction, uh, in some ways are mind boggling. Uh, and as we develop plans for such a massive project, it's also essential that we minimize disruption to capital operations. That's why in 2024, the aoc initiated a swing space study to address the question. Re.
▶ 0:02:27Results of the study were presented to members in december of 2025. I've appreciated your your focus on this growing issue and the regular updates that you have provided this committee during that review process. I look forward to discussing that at this hearing with you today. We'll also discuss the ongoing work, uh, by the aoc to draft the new capital complex master plan, or cmp.
▶ 0:02:48Uh, in theory, this must be done every five years, but as we know, it has been 15 years since this has been completed. And so, uh, I both appreciate and applaud your efforts to prioritize drafting this updated, uh, this update and look forward to reviewing, uh, the published document. I'll also underscore the need for stakeholder engagement on this plan, especially given the efforts by the trump administration to clean up and beautify the nation's capital for everyone to enjoy.
▶ 0:03:17Before I conclude, let me thank you, Mr. austin, for your work. Uh, and in particular, your staff, some of whom are sitting behind you. But knowing that there are dozens more, uh, across this campus, hundreds more across this campus that work dutifully every day to keep the capitol campus complex open, uh, to the american people, to staff, to members. Uh, keeping in mind the importance of keeping everyone here safe, uh, as well. It's no easy task. And so we thank you.
▶ 0:03:43Uh, but in particular, all the men and women working under your leadership of the architect of the capitol office as we celebrate the nation's 250, 250th birthday, I look forward to also discussing how we can work together to prepare congress to serve the american people for the next 250 years. I appreciate you being here. Uh, Mr. austin, I look forward to a robust discussion. With that, I will yield to my colleague, the ranking member, Mr. morelli, for his opening statement. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Thanks for calling this hearing.
▶ 0:04:14Thanks to my colleagues. And certainly thanks to our witness, the first architect of the capitol in american history chosen by the united states congress. So we're delighted that you're here. Uh, Mr. austin, um, and thank you not only for being here today, but all the work that you do, uh, in your team does 24 hours a day, seven days a week, literally 365 days a year. You know, the architect of the capitol employs, as I understand it, 2600 people, roughly. So this is a huge operation.
▶ 0:04:43Maintenance crews, skilled tradespeople, uh, tour guides, other professionals responsible for keeping the capitol campuses. 18,000,000ft. And they are amazing. 18,000,000ft of facilities, 570 acres of grounds operating safely and effectively. Um, like many legislative branch agencies, the aoc is continually being asked to do more with less. And while the agency's dedicated workforce has made a herculean effort to keep campus.
▶ 0:05:11The campus running has done so on a budget that has not kept pace with the work. The men and women of the architect of the capitol make it possible for the rest of us to do our jobs. And, as the chair said, for millions of americans to come and see their government working and to see these just amazing, gorgeous buildings, and they deserve, uh, you all deserve our support. In the last year alone.
▶ 0:05:34Uh, as I understand it, the team responsible for the house office buildings addressed about 5000 hearing and cooling problems. And as the son of a pipe fitter who did hvac, that's a lot of problems to be dealing with. In the course of a year, more than 500 pipe leaks, nearly 200 elevator failures feels like the one in canon is one. That's a perpetual elevator problem, but all while managing a backlog of dozens of unfunded repair projects.
▶ 0:06:03So I've often spoken about how we've weakened congress's article one capacity by failing to adequately invest in this institution, the congress. And there may be no better illustration of that than the failure of what's happening with the rayburn house office building. Even before the current architects appointment, the agency had been sounding the alarm about rayburn's deteriorating infrastructure.
▶ 0:06:25And I want to thank the architect for the many briefings that he's provided to the members and the staff of this committee, the appropriations committee, leadership and other stakeholders. And as a member of the appropriations committee, I certainly appreciate that the message has been consistent, unequivocal. Absent a comprehensive renovation, the rayburn building faces what the architect, I believe, uh, himself, has described as a risk of catastrophic systems failure. That's not some distant, hypothetical concern for decades from now. That's happening right now.
▶ 0:06:55Since 2023, rayburn has experienced 25 major water leaks, resulting in millions of dollars in repair costs and the displacement of members and staff from their offices for months at a time. As I wrote in a recent letter to the speaker, every year we delay this project. The cost only grows, and we all know that the longer you put off those repairs that you need to do at your home or your business anywhere, the more expensive they get and the more profound those problems become. The concern over rayburn is not limited to the lc.
▶ 0:07:23In 2020, an independent panel concluded rayburn's critical systems were already at imminent failure risk. So unless congress acts, we will continue pouring millions of taxpayer dollars into temporary fixes instead of addressing the underlying problem. And to that end, the first major step in the renovation is the design and construction of swing space to accommodate displaced members, committee and support offices, as well as staff.
▶ 0:07:48After a comprehensive study, the architect concluded the most cost effective solution would be to build a new house office building one I endorse and support, and one that could later serve as swing space for future longworth renovation, which is going to have to follow, uh, rayburn and ultimately become part of the permanent part of the capitol complex. So, um, and this is not as it relates to authorizing committee, but more to the appropriations committee.
▶ 0:08:12I am, frankly, deeply disappointed to see the appropriations report, a funding bill that fails to provide even a single dollar for swing space design, despite the agency's request, also fails to fund a new parking structure the aoc has identified as necessary enabling project for the renovation.
▶ 0:08:28So while the legislative branch bill does provide limited funding for the design of the renovation of rayburn, that work as I understand it, cannot meaningfully begin until the agency has clarity on what the additional infrastructure that swing space will be and how it will be made available. So allowing the buildings we work in to deteriorate around us is a fitting illustration of the broader failure to strengthen and sustain article one that has come to define, in my view, this congress.
▶ 0:08:54We owe it to the people who work in the building, who visit these buildings. The american people, including your employees, who keep them standing to plan and fund this work before a failure, forces our hand. And it will not be pretty, as they say when that happens, we owe this to the american people, so we cannot effectively carry out the duties they elected us to perform in the buildings that are, to quote the architect, once again, at risk of catastrophic systems failure. So I look forward to the hearing. Thank you for indulging me. I, um, these are important issues.
▶ 0:09:23I want to thank you again for being here for all your good work, and, Mr. chairman, for holding this hearing, and I look forward to the discussion I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. Without objection, all other members opening statements will be made part of the hearing record. If they're submitted to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. Today. Uh, as our witness today, uh, we have thomas austin, architect of the capitol. Uh, Mr. austin, uh, you're recognized for five minutes to provide an opening statement.
▶ 0:09:48>> good morning, chairman, ranking member morelli and distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you representing the men and women of the architect of the capitol. I appreciate the committee's continued support and would like to offer my sincere thanks to the members of your staff, particularly elliott smith, matthew schlesinger, philip pinegar and kwame newton, whose engagement is critical to our mission success.
▶ 0:10:12I look forward to sharing the hard work of the architect of the capitol and serving the needs of congress, while preserving the historic buildings and grounds that inspire the 30,000 daily occupants and over 4 million annual visitors to the capitol campus.
▶ 0:10:26I would also like to express my sincere gratitude to the 2600 dedicated architect of the capitol employees for their unwavering commitment and professionalism to preserve and maintain over 18 point 5,000,000ft of facilities, 570 acres of grounds and thousands of works of art.
▶ 0:10:43I have been continually inspired by the dedication and expertise of our workforce since assuming the role of the architect of the capitol in june 2024, I have prioritized strengthening transparency, accountability and communication across the agency and with our stakeholders. These principles are foundational to maintaining trust and ensuring disciplined stewardship of the resources entrusted to us.
▶ 0:11:09This year, the architect of the capitol has prioritized addressing critical system needs, implementing increased security infrastructure across the capital campus, and completing the canon renewal project. Because maintaining and modernizing the capitol campus is a central part of our mission and our biggest challenge, this requires a proactive, comprehensive approach to facilities management, addressing both routine and complex matters.
▶ 0:11:37With this committee's support, we have been able to initiate a number of modernization projects in the house office buildings. This year, we launched a pilot program for constant digital monitoring of our elevators, which would enable our mechanics to drastically reduce response times and elevator outages. We have also continued to upgrade elevator and escalator systems to ensure more reliable operations, reducing the burden on members, staff and visitors. Navigating the house office buildings.
▶ 0:12:05Along with the house chief administrative officer, we continue the hearing room hearing room modernization program to restore critical infrastructure and improve technology, ensuring continuity in congress's legislative duties and allowing your constituents to remotely access congressional proceedings. We have also initiated a number of new projects to improve our facilities.
▶ 0:12:28This month, we will break ground on a new external security screening facility for the south entrance of the capitol building, which will improve security operations and reduce wait times for staff and visitors on official business. We also continue to execute a number of other security improvement projects across the capitol campus, including end of life replacements for security, infrastructure and renewal of U.S. capitol police facilities necessary for the safety and security of members, staff and visitors.
▶ 0:12:55One of my top priorities since assuming my role as the architect has been to get a deep understanding of the condition of campus facilities and infrastructure, and to share that understanding with congress to guide the agency's long term strategic planning efforts. We are completing the capital campus master plan, which outlines infrastructure requirements and the agency's recommendations over the next few decades.
▶ 0:13:19The goal of this assessment is to assist congress with long term planning and budgetary decisions to prioritize critical infrastructure improvements and maintain the beauty and functionality of the capital campus for generations to come. As the canon renewal comes to a close, my top concern is now with the condition of the rayburn house office building. The condition of the rayburn house office building is at a critical juncture, and time is of the essence. We are experiencing major challenges each day. The impact.
▶ 0:13:49Our ability to keep this facility functional for the operation of congress. I appreciate the discussions we've had with this committee over the past year and a half, highlighting the urgency of a full renovation of the building and the requirements for swing space.
▶ 0:14:04The aoc is committed to providing this committee and your colleagues with all the information necessary to make informed decisions about not only a rayburn renovation, but all of our major projects, chairman style ranking member morelli and members of this committee, thank you again for your continued support and oversight of the architect of the capitol. I'm honored to be here and look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much, Mr. austin. I'll begin with questions followed by ranking member, and we'll alternate sides.
▶ 0:14:33So I recognize myself for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions. Um, want to dive in? Uh, as it relates to rayburn and what's the driver of the cost? But before I get there, I want to do a quick history of how did we get here? What is the cause? Obviously, rayburn is a significantly newer building than longworth. Uh, but the maintenance costs are significantly high. Is this a design failure? When rayburn was originally built, was it mismanagement of the building? Did we fail to do preventative maintenance?
▶ 0:15:03Can you give us a really brief history lesson as to why is rayburn failing? >> thank you. Chairman. Uh, so when we say it's one of the newer facilities, that's kind of a relative term, when we're talking on campus, it is over 60 years old. And during those six years, unfortunately, there was not a lot of investment made in this facility. And so many of the components of these buildings are original to the building.
▶ 0:15:24One of the easiest examples I can say is that the air handler units that provide fresh air in circulate air to the building were designed for 30 years of operation, and they're coming up on their 61st birthday. So we're well beyond the need for replacement of those particular components, but that's endemic throughout the building. Are there some cost drivers that you spoke about are because when it was constructed in the early 1960s, it was kind of that sweet spot where we're using both asbestos and lead in our buildings.
▶ 0:15:46And so those hazardous materials are embedded throughout the infrastructure in this building, the condition of the pipes, the condition of the wires, all of these things that are hidden behind the walls have deteriorated over the years without replacement. And now they're causing some of the issues that both you and the ranking member brought up in your statements, the continual leaks and the issues that we have. >> so if I can let's let's look forward. Obviously, large cost numbers in these buildings. What's the driver in this this significance of the cost that we're seeing? Obviously, we're in a good way.
▶ 0:16:14We're not going to use lead and asbestos and other things in modern construction. But what's what's the driver and the large kind of eye popping number to redo? Rayburn. >> thank you sir. Uh, so part of this is put it in context, the rayburn house office building is the largest office building on campus by by large stretches, over two point 3,000,000ft of facilities all by itself. So it is the largest building on campus just in terms of gross square feet. So it's the size issue as part of that. Uh, but it also has what we just spoke about. You said lead and asbestos.
▶ 0:16:43Those all have to be remediated and removed and encapsulated depending on where we're talking about it. But some of the other cost drivers are just the operations of congress. We need to maintain at least some portion of the facility because of lack of swing space. So we need to be able to maintain security and environmental controls and all these things in the building while some of it's being renovated and some of it's being used by congress for committee hearings and and regular operations of congress.
▶ 0:17:06And then we have just challenges we have here on campus security challenges, historic preservation challenges, all of these things and visitor access, these all add multiples to what would normally be considered your price per square foot. But all these things add up to the cost of this project. So some of it is the scale, some of it's the historic preservation, security member access. And just in order to keep this building operational while it's being renovated. >> I think the operational piece while it's being renovated is something I want to just probe on for a second.
▶ 0:17:33Uh, the us capitol complex actually really unique amongst all democracies across the globe that we're open and accessible to the american people. Um, I think that's actually mind blowing to foreign visitors that come here that they can just walk in sometimes it's surprising to, to american citizens, uh, but hopefully they're all aware that you can just come and visit. And we're doing both keeping people safe, not only the visitors, but members and staff, uh, but at the same time, open and accessible.
▶ 0:17:56The cannon complex was done in multiple phases, including four key phases while the building was operational. Is we look at the rayburn project. Is that a lesson learned for a cost savings to not do it in in that many steps? >> it absolutely is. Uh, one of the enduring lessons we learned from cannon, I call it the big three lessons of cannon were that doing it in essentially was five phases of zero. One through four, uh, was inefficient.
▶ 0:18:23You know, all this cycle of mobilization, demobilization, having all this construction in such close proximity to members, this was all inefficient and disruptive to. >> so that requires swing space according to your study. What's your number one recommendation on the swing space from a go ahead? >> so as we've discussed, chairman, it is to construct a separate facility for swing space, given the unique needs of congress and proximity to the capitol building, that was the only viable one. That or not the only one. But it was one of the the best course of action that we could come up with in.
▶ 0:18:52>> your recommendation is to not look at to to re revitalize madison and, and the madison building is a way for congress, but to build new. Why. >> madison for a variety of reasons. Number one, madison was never built for high occupancy, uh, office space. So we would have to do all sorts of renovations and reconstruction inside of it. The ceilings are low. They have a lot of structural columns that are in the way. We'd have to do the hvac, the plumbing, the electrical, all these upgrades. So it's essentially would be a reconstruction of a large portion of madison.
▶ 0:19:20>> and let me let me close with one question that I that I've heard your job is unique. You're a member of the capitol police board, uh, which is maybe isn't intuitive to everybody here on campus. But the infrastructure of the capitol campus is so essential for the security of this campus. Uh, do you remain committed to working with the with the us house sergeant at arms, as you go about your work to in conjunction with the security needs of campus? >> absolutely. Mr.
▶ 0:19:48Chairman, the house sergeant at arms, as well as house and us capitol police, are all key stakeholders in all the work we do, and I'm committed to engaging with them constantly, as I do as a member of capitol police board, as you pointed out, but also in my role just as the architect, they are a key stakeholder. >> thank you very much. I appreciate your testimony today. I yield back. I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. morelli, for the purpose of asking questions. >> thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:20:11I, um, first of all, I appreciate the stress on the air handling systems. I think I was designed for about 30 years. I'm way past my useful time as well. So I know, I know the pain and suffering of that. So, um, I'm just curious, sort of following up with the chair's question, but I want to back up in layperson's terms, when people use the phrase catastrophic system failure, I mean, it sounds frightening.
▶ 0:20:36Um, and it does suggest obviously a significant, um, risk, but what does that mean? What, what would it look like if there was a catastrophic system failure that were at risk of. >> sure. So the way we define catastrophic system failure, um, is any failure of one of the building systems, specifically the mechanical, electrical or plumbing systems that would cause part or all of the building to become unusable for the function it was intended, in this case, the operations of congress.
▶ 0:21:05I think probably the easiest way to describe a failure that happened just this past year happened this past october, where one of those air handler units did indeed fail it through a bearing, and that caused the motor to run asynchronous caused a lot of vibrations. Credit to the house office buildings team that they caught it early before the air handler rattled itself to pieces or even caused a friction fire. But that failure of just that one component caused over 22 suites to be without conditioned air at that time.
▶ 0:21:30And because those air handlers are so old that we don't have components made for them anymore, they had to be custom fabricated in order to repair. It took about six weeks, but we got lucky. Number one, the mechanics saw it early, caught it early, less damage. Number two was it was a temperate time of the year. And in this particular case, congress was mostly out of session. So the impact of membership was slight. But it had that happened in june or july or say, january when the conditions are more extreme.
▶ 0:21:57Those offices, those 22 suites and other associated spaces would have been unusable for that period of time, and we would have either had to mitigate it with expensive temporary fixes, or we'd have to relocate staff into ad hoc facilities. >> and, and, um, and should that happen, assume you have contingency plans where staff would go, but it's got to be limited, right? I mean, if you lost 50 suites, I mean, obviously each additional office that is, uh, put out of the office just complicates this more.
▶ 0:22:25But do you have contingency plans and how many people could you relocate given your existing physical structures? >> well, this is something we certainly want to work closely with. This committee, as well as house leadership is to what is in the realm of possible. When we come to contingency. Currently, there are only four swing space suites available for the normal operations. Things that happen, like when we have these floods that we described earlier, when we have to relocate members and staff to different facilities, but there's only four of those. So we have had a system failure like we just talked about in 22.
▶ 0:22:54We would have had to come up with on this, I would say ad hoc solutions, uh, utilizing committee spaces, utilizing hearing room, utilizing other common spaces so that members of congress could continue to do their function. Uh, so what we look forward to continuing this conversation both with this committee to identify additional spaces. >> yeah. Do any of these pose, I mean, you mentioned electrical, you mentioned the possibility of a fire. I mean, those are health and safety risks to staff members, visitors who are here. Is that right?
▶ 0:23:22>> well, I would say that the facility I want to assure folks, people who work in these buildings, these facilities are safe to, to, to be in, you know, all the hazard materials we talked about were encapsulated. So there's really only an issue when we try to do renovations or we have some kind of, you know, major leak or something like this. Uh, however, the really the challenge is operations. We, we are risk of having operations failures with these buildings less so safety failures. >> yeah.
▶ 0:23:46Um, I mentioned the number of hvac related and pipe leaks is there, is that number gone up over time? Is that, um, can you give me a sense of the, the, the numbers and quantify the growing risk growing problems? >> sure. You're absolutely right. It has gone up over time.
▶ 0:24:05We're as these facilities age and we kind of reach this, this tipping point where we start having increasing number of failures as all these systems age out and they start having a series of failures on top of each other. So that number has gone up over the past year, just over the past, um, over just past 12 months, we've had 16 major leaks that impacted six member suites for committee office spaces, five member storage areas, and two hallways. Each one of those required millions of dollars to remediate or not each one.
▶ 0:24:32But collectively, they required millions of dollars of remediation and repairs. And that just got us back to where we started with. So yes, they are increasing. >> and so we should anticipate even greater numbers if we don't address this. Um, you had mentioned swing space. Assume the goal is and I think in our conversations, we've all had this discussion that that would make those offices that you build in swing space, we would build a new building, swing space would be used, but that would be available then for the house to be able to use.
▶ 0:25:00Once the project is completed and people have moved back into rayburn, it still would allow us to be able to make use of that space, um, obviously into the future. >> absolutely, yes. That would be permanent space be utilized at the direction of congress.
▶ 0:25:15Uh, certainly as swing space for future renovations, as the chairman pointed out for the longworth renovation, that would happen subsequent to rayburn, but also we we rent on the re lease on the house side, hundreds of thousands of square feet of other facilities that could be reshore back onto the capital campus, but it would also be available for use by congress, however they decide. >> gotcha. Thank you for your indulgence. I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. The gentleman from georgia, Mr. loudermilk, is recognized for purpose of asking questions. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:25:43Uh, thank you for being here, um, and for the work that you're doing. I know it's a daunting task, especially when you're dealing with aging technology, aging buildings. Um, one thing, and I know there's some of this you may not be able to talk about in this setting, but, um, can, can you give us kind of an, a brief rundown on where we are with security upgrades? Uh, I know that there were several that were underway prior to the incidents of january 6th, 2021.
▶ 0:26:14Uh, can you give us an idea of where we are? >> thank you for the question. And you're correct. There are certain things I can't discuss in open forum, but we're happy to meet with you afterwards. If you'd like to speak in more detail, I can say for for certain, some things we put on the record thus far is all the exterior doors to the capitol building have been replaced with high security doors. We've also replaced all the outside facing windows of the capitol building. We're doing that in a round robin fashion to the house and senate office buildings. So that's happening right now.
▶ 0:26:42We've made some we're in design phase, getting ready to implement some changes on the west front of the capitol to extend our security perimeter further out. That way. We've certainly added a lot of camera infrastructure, a lot of sensors, a lot of lights to the infrastructure. Uh, one of the most visible ones is one I spoke about in my opening testimony is a new south, uh, south door to the capitol building security screening facility, where that's going to start construction just this month, and we'll be working through that. But we've done a variety of other system upgrades in different ways, some visible, some not. >> okay.
▶ 0:27:11Um, being our semiquincentennial year, we expect ♪a lot of people, uh, in and around the mall and around the capitol ♪with the, you know, national fair and other events. Do you feel that we're, uh, we've made enough progress to, to handle the, the influx of people. >> I have both from a security perspective, as you just mentioned, as well as just welcoming all these visitors to the capitol visitor center.
▶ 0:27:36So definitely looking forward to all the activities associated with 250 and looking forward to welcoming the american people to the beautiful capital campus. >> I appreciate that. Um, and there's a lot of discussion, um, regarding future, uh, refurbishments. And from what I understand, rayburn would be the next priority. Um, and, uh, the just make sure that, that I understand we're talking potentially building a, a, a facility as temporary space.
▶ 0:28:05Is that right? >> correct. That's one of the recommendations we've made, uh, to congress and we're still awaiting congressional congress's decision and consensus guidance on that. But that is one of the recommendations is to build what would be a permanent facility. But the temporary use of that would be for swing space for those renovations. Rayburn and long, specifically. >> just from logistics and security, would would that be something co-located here with underground access to other buildings? Okay. >> yes.
▶ 0:28:32Congressman, I, I mean, to not to say yes, but yes, that that would be correct. We want to follow the committee's guidance, which was very helpful when they said that for the members specifically and staff, we want to have a no more than a ten minute walk between the offices and the chambers to facilitate votes, and then underground access for security and all weather access. >> okay. Um, do we have any time frame? I know you're probably waiting on congress, which means it may happen in the next millennium, maybe the next 250 years before we get to it.
▶ 0:29:01But, um, if everything lays out properly, uh, or, or the way it should, what, when, when would you expect that we would see the refurbishing of rayburn to begin? >> you're absolutely correct, congressman. That is dependent on a lot of decisions that were still pending, uh, to do so. So we know there's enabling work that needs to be done regardless of the scenario that we pick. Uh, but it based on the, the one that we received guidance here from this committee, we're looking probably about five years into the future.
▶ 0:29:30Um, I, I'm sure I phrase this correctly. If we went with a separate building option, it's probably close to about eight years before we actually start the rayburn renovation itself in order to get all the design and enabling work complete beforehand. >> in that eight years, is there anything we can do to make the rayburn escalators all work at the same time? >> so I will say the perception is everything, but we do have 2728 escalators are currently functional.
▶ 0:30:00One of those is in the longworth. Uh, it's correct. It is currently not functional. Uh, it's part of the challenge with all this part of the campus. Those in a lot of cases are still original components to some of these buildings. We have received funding, uh, in the past for our vertical transportation system, which includes both elevators and escalators. And we're starting to replace major components in round robin fashion, but we're looking as that as a programmatic requirement going into the future to spend money on those upgrades of components, not full replacement, but components to make them more reliable.
▶ 0:30:28>> well, I appreciate that because quite often I can either go up or I can go down, but I can't do both in rayburn, so, or I can go from one floor to the next, but not the the next one. So anything you could do to facilitate that, I appreciate it, thank you, I yield back. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman from virginia, Mr. griffith, is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate it. So I'm going to switch gears for a minute and then I'll switch back over to rayburn.
▶ 0:30:57Everybody's interested in what's going on at rayburn, but, uh, ranking member morelli and I have this little bill in. We thought. I thought originally it was going to be our jurisdiction. Turns out it's t and I, and it's to create an adult changing station in the library of congress and in the visitor center, because I had constituents who came to me and they brought their severely handicapped child up here who needs to be changed. But she's an adult, and there was no facilities when they were visiting the capitol, where they could find adequate space to change their daughter.
▶ 0:31:27And so I was just wondering, I mean, we've got the bill. It's always nice to get a bill passed, but do we need a bill passed? Can you take care of that? >> so thank you for the question. This is something that we've been addressing. Uh, we have identified two locations inside the cvc, one on the senate side of cvc, one on the house. We have program money in this year's bill.
▶ 0:31:47We're awaiting permit or authorization from both the house and senate, because in the cvc it's joint space in order to proceed with the design of it, those upgrades, it's as you know, congressman, those are more significant than just, say, a baby changing station. That's correct. It requires electrical, plumbing. There's some structural concerns. And just the size of it, we right.
▶ 0:32:06>> for I mean, for the viewers back home, when you're talking about an adult child, you can't just put them on one of the changing stations that, uh, that you find in your basic, uh, highway rest area, you've got to have a whole room and it's got to be dedicated and you've got lots of different types of disabilities you have to take into account. So I'm not, I'm not thinking it would be something easy, but, uh, but you're right. It takes a lot. But you think we can get it done? >> I think we can get it done.
▶ 0:32:32Uh, again, we're we're, we have the money program to, in order to do the design this year, uh, just waiting on approval. But I don't expect that to be an issue. >> all right. Let's let's talk about rayburn for a minute. And I appreciate it's going to take some time to plan. So you can't just rush in there and do things. But it's been very frustrating for about the last year as a member of energy and commerce, because one of our rooms is being renovated and the amount of time it's taken to renovate the hearing room, uh, just seems to be inordinately long.
▶ 0:32:59And I'm hopeful that we can figure out ways to do that faster because I, I've seen houses built, particularly when, you know, you're coming in, I've seen houses built, uh, faster than renovating our committee hearing room. I know we got electrical issues and, and because it's energy and commerce and we're supposed to be the technology committee, it would be nice to have, you know, microphones that actually work and so forth. And I get that, uh, but can you explain why it's taken so long? >> sure.
▶ 0:33:27I, I understand and this, the hearing renovation program is something we're working closely with house cao in order to accomplish. And it's, as you pointed out, congressman, this is more than just, you know, a quick refurbishment of a few things. We have to pull up the floors because all the electrical infrastructure runs under the floors. In many cases, we're extending the dyess depending on the needs of the committee. If the committee membership is expanded, we have the audio visual and the hookups and everything else to modernize and standardize that package.
▶ 0:33:55Of course, working with house cow and the house sergeant at arms for security and upgrades to the building itself and of course, the historical preservation that. And also, as you pointed out in your earlier question, we're also making these chambers and hearing rooms ada accessible. And that often that requires structural improvements to the facility itself. And I believe that's part of the. All those challenges were associated with entering commerce section.
▶ 0:34:18>> so switching quickly to to rayburn, here's here's what I would say, because that's a rayburn committee hearing room is when you're doing your planning. C I mean, particularly because members are going to be relocated and all that. Uh, figure out how you can do as much modular stuff as you can do. So you, we get kicked out and you're pulling stuff out and putting stuff back in fairly quickly. And since you've got some time to plan, I would hope that you all would work on that. Let me give you two other quick things before I run out of time.
▶ 0:34:47One, uh, I was probably before your time, but there's a little company in my district called crenshaw lighting that does a lot of lighting for the capitol when there's a problem, because they can, uh, reproduce or replicate, uh, some of that historic lighting. And we appreciate that business because every job in my district is very important. I have, uh, we're 409 on, uh, on, uh, household income out of the 435. So every job is important. We appreciate that.
▶ 0:35:15And then you mentioned having to get, uh, or reconstruct replacement parts for certain things, uh, because they're out of date. If you have the specs, there's a little company in my district that can do any metal and do 3d printing, and they might not save you any money, but they'll save you a lot of time because instead of getting at the back of the line for custom made, uh, foundry work or, or metal work, they, they do all metals, including titanium, and they can replicate whatever part you need.
▶ 0:35:44They're doing it now for dod. They've done parts on naval ships. They can do parts for the capital. And, uh, now that I've touted my district and gotten a few things off my chest, I will yield back. Mr. chairman. >> the gentleman yields back. Uh, the chair now recognizes the gentleman from north carolina, doctor murphy. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you for coming for the committee today. I I've got a bunch of questions. I want to go back on the cannon issue. So how much was that over budget?
▶ 0:36:12>> uh, so the original midpoint of the budget estimate was about $750 million. We're coming in at 971 overall. >> okay. So almost a quarter million dollars, a quarter million dollars over what? How about timing? How far over how long overrun was it? >> I the short answer to the question, it was not because the committee spaces were tight or the the office spaces were tied to the congressional move cycle.
▶ 0:36:37In all four phases, we were able to turn over every, uh, suite on time so it could be a part of the move cycle we did. To your point, though, we did move some of the ancillary features and portions of the project to the tail end of the program overall, so that we could make those accelerated turnover of with the suites. So there are certain things that went to the end of the project, but the primary features of the project were turned over on time. >> so what was the if you had to pick out one thing or top two things, the primary cost overruns, what was the issue?
▶ 0:37:06>> I would say there's several things. I'd say it's part of the enduring lessons we learned from the project. I would say one of the things was change management issues. When we first started the project, we allowed kind of a low threshold for changes, and we got a lot of changes that came in from congress, some of the changes that came just because part of the design. And so we want to have a higher bar for future projects with change management, a higher threshold to make those changes. >> who makes your contracts? >> uh, we do, we do the contracts with the contractors. >> all right. So I'm assuming that there are pullbacks.
▶ 0:37:36If, if, if they're cost overruns or if there's something that there is some risk that the contractors would accept just trying to again, we, if we're going to talk about this with redoing rayburn, we have to use every little bit of experience from cannon to make sure that the same. I don't want to say disaster the same. You know, cost overruns don't occur with rayburn. >> so I would say that this has come up before. And I just want to, um, when it comes to cannon, as the chairman pointed out earlier, the original cost assessment was done in 2009 for the $750 million.
▶ 0:38:03But because it was given put forward so early in the project, our estimators gave a plus or -40%, which is large when it comes to good projects. Uh, and so during the time through all the projects, the timeline came through it, including early 2020s when we had the covid shutdowns and the pandemic and the price escalations, the material decisions. And we had an enforced shutdown of the project in early 2021. All those created significant headwinds.
▶ 0:38:28But even after all of that, coming at 971, although it is high in that estimate, is still within the original estimate. >> yeah. Well, I would just I would just say, you know, the the outside world loves a government contract. And I hope there are people within your department or whatever that are questioning every nickel and dime as it would out in the private world, because this is taxpayer money. It's not, you know, just going to come out of air and to have real due diligence on these things, I think is critically important. Let me let me move on a little bit.
▶ 0:38:57Um, for the capital complex master plan, where are you guys with that? >> so it's a multi-phase project. We're in the last phase of that with our designers. We're finishing that up this fall. We have certain aspects of it, like the rayburn, like some things we're in the senate that are complete now, but as part of the whole comprehensive plan that will be complete this fall, and we look forward to future briefings, both this committee and others. >> do you ever get any type of outside consultants to look at this, or is this all done, this master plan done within the government itself? >> it's both.
▶ 0:39:27We do have outside consultants that we're working with for the master plan. We have a large architecture and engineering firm that we're working with that's helping us with the master plan, and we do bring in other consultants as needed. >> okay. I mean, it's just I don't think we use, um, outside sources enough from the government. We tend to turn in. And I think sadly enough, that creates more bureaucracy and actually it ends up more cost. Um, going back to our favorite topic of the, of the committee hearing, rayburn. Um, if we're going to put another building to replace it, where is that?
▶ 0:39:58Are you at liberty to say where that would be? >> well, we'll put it where congress tells us to put it, congressman. So where. >> have I heard that before? Um. >> we have suggestions as far as different locations. Um we have the, the preferred location, the one that we briefed out is over the west west house underground garage. But that is still very much up for discussion. But we are conscious of the guidance this committee has given us that we, any place we select has to be within a ten minute walk of the chamber, and it has to have tunnel access, and that narrows our choices down significantly. >> okay.
▶ 0:40:28If you're doing that, if you don't mind, put an underground baseball complex for some of us that we forget up are stupid enough to get up at their earl carter don't have don't have to drive across the city. I'm just kidding. So, um, good luck. You have a a huge monumental task and a lot of money and a lot of appropriations to occur, a lot of planning. So as we are, um, I think bipartisan in this approach, we're at your disposal. Thank you very much. Yield back. >> doctor murphy yields back. The gentleman from ohio Mr. kerry is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you.
▶ 0:40:56I want to thank the chairman and the vice chair or the ranking member as well. Um you mentioned early on and you were about to expand upon and I think you got interrupted. You said there were three main lessons from the cannon building that we could look at to maybe as we as we look at rayburn, what were those three. >> sure. Thank you. Congressman. So the big three we discussed some in detail.
▶ 0:41:17Is that number by doing cannon in so many small phases, that was inefficient because of the mobilization and demobilization of the contractor and also being tied to artificial constraints. The second one, which is sort of tied to the first, is we want to separate our construction from the operations of congress as much as possible. So the more we can have our construction be on one side of a building and congress operating on the other, and not have to intermix this much, uh, because disrupting operations of congress is certainly something we always want to avoid. But the inverse is true, too.
▶ 0:41:47When we have operations of congress that have to interrupt the operations of the construction, that means we do a lot of construction at night. We do a lot of construction on the weekend. We pay a premium for that. That's inefficient, and we don't get as much productive activity over contractors because of that. So the second lesson is separating construction from congress as much as possible is desirable. And then the last one was I spoke about just a moment ago, was about change management.
▶ 0:42:10We want to make sure that we nail the design up front, that we get our program of requirements identified that has been vetted, and then any subsequent changes, unless they involve design oversights, differing site conditions or life health safety, really have a high bar for implementation. So we don't have kind of that good idea fairy hitting us way wait in the project that's adding cost and time to the project. >> um, and as somebody that's been involved with historic preservation most of my life, it's a passion of mine. Um, do you see the changes?
▶ 0:42:39I mean, cannon was built in, if I'm correct, 1908 and then you had rayburn in the 1960s, obviously, the the material that was used in the construction of cannon quite a bit different than what it was done in the 1960s.
▶ 0:42:53So as you're looking at that expense and, you know, and the delta between what what you had planned and then ultimately have to spend looking at the rayburn, I'm going to imagine that there's going to be, as you mentioned, asbestos, um, significant mitigation that's going to be required for that much more so probably than in the cannon. Am I correct with that? >> that is correct. They they integrated asbestos specifically more into the rayburn building than they did into cannon.
▶ 0:43:21It's it's literally embedded into almost all the fibers, especially the structural components in rayburn. >> and that in itself also would affect the reason we're having issues with the mechanicals, because in many ways you can't. I'm doing this more anecdotally, but the reason that you can't access a lot of these areas of the rayburn is because of the threat of exposing with asbestos or, and or lead paint exposure. Yeah. >> it is absolutely a complicating factor in all the work we do in rayburn. Yes.
▶ 0:43:51>> um, one other thing you mentioned, um, how you had to fabricate some of the, the inner workings within the air duct system at the rayburn building. And you're finding that, I mean, in your role, you find that all over the capital, correct? I mean, just like our subways, for example. >> correct. More so in some places than others. But yes, when we're working with historic components, as you pointed out, most of that is custom work.
▶ 0:44:14In order to do that, when it comes to the mechanical components, because some of ours are so old, a lot of that has to be custom fabricated. You know, I can point to many examples if you'd like. >> and, you know, to the end of, you know, talking again anecdotally about, you know, having escalators that work and all of those things. I mean, it the, the great concept, but I mean, we still are a functioning office facility. Well, in the sense we have to be mindful of preserving the past.
▶ 0:44:39And so how um, and I only have a minute and let you expound and we'll, we'll follow up, but how? Well, you were going through the process of making it a building, a living building. Um, but in the same sense, having to deal with the historical significance of what you can and cannot change, it'd be much more efficient to replace the, the subway under the system right now than it would be to fabricate all these things.
▶ 0:45:07How do you have to what do you have to what are the what's the process you have to go through in order to do something like that? >> so you're absolutely right. It's a complicated process. It's balancing a lot of factors between form and functionality, historic preservation, the desires of congress, the ada. There's a lot of factors that play into it.
▶ 0:45:22We have what's called an architectural review board that we work through internally with our stakeholders to make sure that all the voices are being heard, and then we make these decisions in the best interest of the future functionality of the space, as well as in light of historic preservation, because we want our future visitors to have that same wow experience when they come to our campus that we get when we see it today. >> and I, and I would agree with the the ranking member in terms of a new structure and would be happy to work with you on, on how we would begin the process of design.
▶ 0:45:50I'm assuming that the environmental scan has already been done. You've already done the soil samples and all those things. All right. With that, Mr. chairman. Thank you, and I yield back. >> I recognize. >> can you hear me now? Okay. We now recognize the gentlewoman from illinois, miss miller, for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman, for hosting this hearing. And thank you, Mr. austin, for being here. The architect of the capitol is an important job here in washington, dc, especially ahead of our nation's 250th birthday. Mr.
▶ 0:46:19Austin, you oversee many employees who help preserve and maintain the capitol grounds and the safety of members, staff and visitors. This committee appreciates the steps that you have taken to bring stability and organization to the agency. Not only is the capitol building historic, but it's also an important symbol of democracy all over the world, managing the upkeep of this building and its grounds is essential to making sure our government is able to function efficiently.
▶ 0:46:49As a result of the work of the aoc and its employees, the capitol continues to provide an enduring and inspiring home for american democracy. Your job is not easy, and we do certainly appreciate all that you've accomplished in the short time you've been in the role. And so my question is, could you please explain what deferred maintenance is and how it's different from your maintenance backlog and how you plan to address both?
▶ 0:47:19>> that's a that's a long conversation, congresswoman. I'm happy to have a more in-depth discussion with you, but the short version of that is our maintenance backlog, identified projects or deferred maintenance projects that we've identified. We've scoped sometimes in some cases designed and have not yet been funded or have been pushed into future years because of operational or budgetary needs. Uh, maintenance backlog or deferred maintenance is, is, can be.
▶ 0:47:42It's everything from the sampling of our mechanical systems to sampling of our plumbing systems all work to design. And we look at that as in terms of an overall value to the building. But I hesitate to give numbers associated with these because I think that undersells the amount of work that would be required to do so. We've had discussions in the past where numbers have been thrown out that would not be sufficient in order to take care of all of these missions.
▶ 0:48:08And just this budget year alone, we have over $600 million of identified projects that we're looking to do. And this exists in a time continuum. So if we don't do those in present year or current years, they get pushed into future years because none of that work really goes away. It just gets added to future maintenance issues. >> so what's your, um, most complicated issue, your biggest challenge and how can we help you?
▶ 0:48:31>> so I would say the facilities condition in general, the committee has been very helpful as we've been designing the rayburn project, I'd say my rayburn program overall, how we go about it, uh, the means, the methods, the swing space, the phasing and all that is something that, uh, that's been my biggest challenge is to get a firm course of action so that we can start moving forward on that project. As I spoke about earlier, time is of the essence when it comes to that.
▶ 0:48:54And it's because as these system failures keep increasing in frequency and severity, that's going to start impacting members of congress more and more. And I am keen to avoid that, and I'm keen to get to get ahead of it as much as possible. >> and how do you facilitate proactive maintenance in order to prevent reactive maintenance on the capitol grounds? >> so I will say a shout out to my staff as they do a great job, um, keeping abreast of facility issues as much as they possibly can.
▶ 0:49:21Some things that are hidden behind our walls, like our hvac issues or plumbing, electrical, some of those things don't show up until they show up and we have an issue. But some things we talk about preventive maintenance with our hvac systems, uh, preventive maintenance, when it comes to our some of our plumbing components, they do a great job of doing that. We do over half a million work orders a year throughout the capitol campus. Um, the ranking member spoke about just the plumbing in some of the, the hydraulic issues we have inside campus. Uh, it's a constant challenge. We do a great job of tracking it. Our on time work orders over 95% these days.
▶ 0:49:51And, uh, we want to make sure that we're staying abreast of those and doing great data tracking, great predictive maintenance by utilizing, uh, the, uh, by utilizing the feedback systems we have with our maintenance systems. >> I think you've been doing a good job and we're happy to support you. >> thank you. Congresswoman. >> and I yield back. >> gentlelady yields now bryan steil gentleman from virginia. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I'm going to steal a couple a minute of your time.
▶ 0:50:21I went through all that stuff about that great southwest virginia business that, uh, does the metal, uh, 3d printing and they do big stuff too, and didn't tell you the name and it's, uh, meld and meld print works. And it truly is, Mr. chairman, a, a southwest virginia success story lady by the name of nancy hardwick, fought for 20 years to get the technology developed. And it's woman owned entrepreneur and, uh, real success story.
▶ 0:50:48So I just, if you got some part that you can't find, and it's going to cost you a bunch of money and take six months, they can get it done quicker, I yield back. >> gentleman yields. Now recognize the gentlelady from oklahoma, miss bice, for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And first let me say, Mr. austin, thank you for being here.
▶ 0:51:08And on behalf of oklahoma's congressional delegation, I want to thank you and your team for working with my office to plant a sapling of the oklahoma city national memorial sapling tree on the capitol grounds last april to honor those that were lost in the mirror federal building bombing on april 19th, 1995. We are excited to direct our constituents to the capitol grounds to see the sapling.
▶ 0:51:37And I was there, uh, a month ago with senator lankford. And it has grown tremendously, um, since it was planted last april. So huge appreciation from our delegation in your assistance in getting that done. Uh, I also want to thank you and your team for the, um, ada pickup and drop off outside of the capitol.
▶ 0:51:57You know, when I became the modernization and innovation subcommittee chairwoman, I was shocked to learn that there was not a permanent ada access point for individuals coming to this, the people's house.
▶ 0:52:11And so you were instrumental in your team in figuring out how to make that happen quickly, keeping in mind security aspects that are important on this campus, but also recognizing that many people who visit the building that have physical disabilities were having a hard time, and we got to celebrate that important, um, ada pick up drop off, uh, launched last year and I'm very thankful for that. Your office and the challenges that you face are unique.
▶ 0:52:41And I hope that with continued transparency, with the architect of the capitol in conjunction with house administration, that we can help address the looming challenges that make the capitol complex more sustainable for future generations. You have been a great partner, and I hope that we can continue to build off of the successes that we have seen since taking over this role.
▶ 0:53:02My question to you is sort of a general one, and that is, what do you believe that the aoc's largest opportunities for institutional growth are. >> um. >> as far as institution? Well, first off in preamble, the survivor tree is definitely a survivor tree because it has thrived since it's been on campus. That's a huge success story as we've discussed. But thank you for that shout out. And I'll make sure to pass on to my capitol grounds and arboretum team. They're very proud of those trees.
▶ 0:53:30As far as institutional growth, congresswoman, um, I would say when we're talking, we've had some discussions about the scale of the rayburn renovation, and it certainly will be the largest renovation program this agency has ever taken on. And I'd probably posit to say, inside the federal government writ large, it's one of the largest renovation programs. And so as we're trying to tackle that challenge, what do I have to look at in my staff in order to make sure I can support such a program of that size? And as that the parameters of that program get fleshed out.
▶ 0:53:57I look for opportunities to have a discussion about what that program team will look like and grow them into that. Some other areas that we're trying to be more responsive to the needs. We've had a lot of discussion today about elevators and escalators, so I want to be more responsive to that. And we're looking at technology issues that we're also looking at human capital that way as well. Uh, and that we can respond more quickly and at all hours to it.
▶ 0:54:18So right now on the weekends, for instance, we will have someone respond because we have people to respond to elevator outages, but we want to make sure there's an elevator mechanic that can respond at all hours in case something like that happens. And so those are some of the challenges. We also want to be more responsive in emergency management. We've seen some shortfalls there that we want to make sure that we're prepared for in case those happen. And so we're looking for some institutional growth in those areas as well. But in general I'm certainly focused on our facilities.
▶ 0:54:44But when it comes to growth, since you're given the opportunity to speak to this, is that I'm looking for ways that we can be more responsive to congress. >> when you mentioned the rayburn renovation, um, can you maybe talk a little bit briefly about the difference with renovating a building like rayburn versus what we've been working on with the cannon building? >> sure. So the most obvious way is it's size is rayburn significantly larger, almost three times the size of cannon. Not quite, but almost three times the size of cannon. Uh, it's also has a lot more challenges associated with just the way it was constructed.
▶ 0:55:15We've talked a little bit about asbestos and lead and, and some of the challenges that are much more prevalent in that building than they were in cannon. There's a lot of materials issues and things of that nature as well. But I'd say the biggest differences between those two are going to be, um, when it comes just the way we maintain member access, the points in and out of the building.
▶ 0:55:33And also this facility cannon has some, but this facility, rayburn has more and more hearing rooms and community spaces and other specialty facilities, like a firing range for the capitol police and other things that were not challenges inside cannon and certainly will be part of this program. >> thank you. I appreciate all you have done for this institution and certainly for the campus and our collaboration and working together on making sure that we're doing what we can to improve the people's health. So thank you and your team for your hard work.
▶ 0:56:02And with that, Mr. chairman, I yield. >> gentlelady yields. I'd like to thank our witness for appearing before us today. Members of the committee may have some additional questions for you, and we ask that you please respond to those questions in writing. Without objection, each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material into the record, or to revise and extend their remarks if there's no further business. I thank the members for their participation.
▶ 0:56:31Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.