▶ 0:50:01The committee on homeland security on the border security and enforcement will come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare the committee in recess at any point. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the unique security challenges posed by the Northern Border, including its vast geographic, remote terrain, limited personnel, technology, and infrastructure gaps, and policy differences between the United States and Canada related to
▶ 0:50:31visas, asylums, and border screening. I'd like to thank our colleagues from the counterterrorism and intelligence subcommittee for partnering with us for this joint hearing. Without objection, I seek unanimous consent that the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Thanodar, the gentleoman from Illinois, Miss Ramirez, and the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy, be permitted to sit with the subcommittee and ask questions of the witnesses. I would like to now recognize myself for an opening statement.
▶ 0:51:01Good afternoon and welcome to the joint border security and enforcement and counterterrorism and intelligence subcommittee hearing on the evolving threat landscape at our nation's northern border. As one of the largest land borders in the world, spanning nearly 4,000 contiguous miles, the US border with Canada stretches across dense forest, rugged mountains, and more than 2,000 miles of waterways, including the Great Lakes.
▶ 0:51:32Naturally, this diverse terrain provides unique security challenges for the Department of Homeland Security. Some of the trends we will discuss today can be in part attributed to the level of security President Trump and his administration have achieved at the southwest border. The sustained decline in illegal crossings and apprehensions over the past year and a half are unlike anything we have seen in three decades.
▶ 0:52:01In May, the United States Border Patrol apprehension along the southwest border were 94% lower than the monthly average of the Biden Harris administration. But as illegal crossings have declined, transnational criminal organizations have been forced to shift away from their traditional smuggling routes. The the cartels exploit vulnerabilities wherever they may exist.
▶ 0:52:25They take advantage of potential security gaps that allow them to traffic illegal drugs to smuggle humans, weapons, or other contraband. We cannot allow the Northern Quarter to become the next preferred quarter for these criminal networks. And yet, Customs and Border Protection data has shown that over the last year, illegal crossings have begun to shift north.
▶ 0:52:51While overall encounters at the northern border have dropped when compared with the overall national encounters, the percentage of encounters at the northern border have more than doubled since FY23. Likewise, drug seizures at the northern border have steadily increased, reaching record levels this year. Over the last five fiscal years, CBP has also encountered over 1,500 individuals on the terrorist screening data set attempting.
▶ 0:53:20These individuals have attempted to cross the northern border at or between ports of entry. These trends underscore an important reality. Although the northern border presents a different threat profile than the southwest border, it remains a national As such, security along the northern border has improved considerably over the past decade.
▶ 0:53:43The Department of Homeland Security has deployed additional surveillance capabilities, strengthen air and marine operations, enhanced intelligence gathering and sharing, and increased coordination with homeland security investigations, and other federal, state, and local and tribal partners. These investments have improved situational awareness along one of the world's longest international borders.
▶ 0:54:09Even with these investments, significant challenges remain and Congress has a continued responsibility to ensure that border security is guided by measurable performance, modern technology, and a comprehensive strategy that addresses threats across all domains.
▶ 0:54:29Today's hearing provides an opportunity to examine where progress has been made, identify the gaps that remain, and determine what additional authorities, resources, and oversight are necessary to continue securing the northern border. As criminal organizations adapt, so too must the United States government.
▶ 0:54:47Congress must ensure that federal law enforcement agencies and its partners have the personnel, infrastructure, and technology necessary to protect our northern border and safeguard the American people. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today, and I look forward to our productive discussion and continued partnership. I would now like to recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from California, Mr. Koreah, for his opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:55:17I want to welcome today our witnesses. Thank you for taking time your interest for being here with us today. As the chairman just said, America and Canada share the world's longest non-militarized border in the world, spanning 13 states and eight Canadian This is thanks to a strong alliance and friendship we have with Canada. great partners in our national security.
▶ 0:55:44And over the decades, both Canadian and American soldiers have fought side by side and have died side by side. And Canada, of course, is our second largest trading partner in the world with trade now over $870 billion. And of course, over 300,000 individuals cross the Canadian border on a daily basis.
▶ 0:56:09And when it comes to security of the northern border, it's critical that we work with our Canadian neighbors and partners to combat the threats we face while we also encourage smooth travel and trade. The US and Canada as neighbors, we face similar challenges. Arms trafficking, drug meals, human smugglers, and terrorists attempting to cross the northern border to and from Canada.
▶ 0:56:39both north and south. And Democrats, I would say, and my Republican colleagues, I believe, we're committed to upholding the lawful security and secure northern border. But what we will not support, however, are immigration enforcement agencies using unnecessarily aggressive tactics on American citizens or putting their health at risk.
▶ 0:57:04Let me repeat what we will not tolerate our immigration enforcement officers trampling on the constitutional rights of American And we will not support the diversion of precious American resources from national security priorities, criminal and the facilitation of trade and travel across the northern border.
▶ 0:57:34Sadly, we've watched masked agents roaming our American streets harassing American citizens. We've watched immigration officers stop and ask people for their immigration status based on the color of their skin, ethnicity, accent, or job they are working. Back home, Orange County, California, people ask me if they need to carry their passport and papers with them.
▶ 0:58:02And today, they ask me if that's even As we see US citizens being detained and arrested, American citizens being detained and arrested, even when they prove they are American citizens, even when their American citizenry is not in question, they're still being detained, arrested, and held.
▶ 0:58:27We've seen reports of CBP and ICE using facial recognition technologies to build databases of immigrants as well as American citizens. American citizens expressing their first amendment right, the right to free speech are being tracked and monitored by federal our federal government. If they say anything at all, it's critical of this administration.
▶ 0:58:58We've seen DHS leadership tell their agents that they don't need a judicial warrant to enter American homes and instead just need administrative warrant signed by a supervisor. And this is a clear violation of the fourth the fourth amendment of our ICE, CBP, we, none of us are above the The president of the United States promised that he would go after
▶ 0:59:28the worst of the worst. Instead, the administration has redirected thousands of law enforcement agents from investigating serious crimes like sex trafficking, child exploitation, terrorism, drug smuggling to focus on conducting immigration sweeps. And for what? To meet an arbitrary de mass deportation target of 1 million deportations a year. I don't know if you saw this article just came out.
▶ 1:00:00Sister Letty, a Texas nun taken by ICE while walking to Sunday mass has happened just this last Sunday. Is this making our country safer? And by the way, she works at a nurse as well.
▶ 1:00:17And she was released after colleagues from both Democrat and Republican side made some phone calls in attempt to meet your goals of deportation. You've pulled thousands of law enforcement agencies of serious crimes like child sex trafficking, money laundering, and fentinyl trafficking.
▶ 1:00:46You've also pulled agents responsible for sure securing the northern border away from the border. This is despite the consistent staffing and resource shortages at the northern Many of these agents agents have no in the interior how to address American These agents have been put in the front lines of American immigration sweeps, I should say, in American territory.
▶ 1:01:18And sadly, today Americans are witnessing firsthand the costs of these decisions. Renee Good and Alex Petty, both US citizens were shot and killed in Minneapolis, where are protesting. Mammar Martinez on a way to donate clothing to her local church was shot five times.
▶ 1:01:42Five times by a border border patrol After shooting her, the agent bragged, and I quote, "I fired five rounds and she had seven holes." Put that in your books, boys.
▶ 1:01:59So, I ask, how is all this making our homeland Long time ago, 911, post 911, Homeland Security was created to protect American citizens, to protect Americans from a foreign terrorist attack. And this is what we have today.
▶ 1:02:25I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about the very real challenges that we have at the northern border and how we can help you address those challenges. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield. Uh, thank you, Ranking Member Korea. I now recognize the chairman of the Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Fluger, to deliver his opening
▶ 1:02:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon and I'd like to thank uh our witnesses for being here and also uh the border subcommittee for partnering with the counterterrorism subcommittee on such an important issue. Uh from those of us who come from border states, the consequences of unsecure borders are not theoretical. They are a lived reality. In Texas under the Biden administration, those consequences were unmistakable. When the federal government fails to uphold basic enforcement responsibilities, communities bear the brunt.
▶ 1:03:19That is exactly what happened in my state. Public safety deteriorates, law enforcement is pushed past operational limits, and national security vulnerabilities expand in ways that Washington should never have allowed. As we assess the challenges before us, Congress must broaden its focus to include the counterterrorism vulnerabilities emerging along the northern border. For years, the southwest border has demanded urgent attention, and rightfully so. But today, we are seeing a troubling shift.
▶ 1:03:47Individuals of concern, including those appearing on the terror watch watch list, are increasingly attempting to reach the United States through Canada. This trend requires us to examine not only illegal crossings, but the broader counterterrorism landscape that dangerous actors may seek to exploit. And with major international events taking place this summer, including the World Cup happening right now, the stakes are even higher.
▶ 1:04:11Larger scale glo global gatherings especially those with a crossber nexus create attractive targets for hostile actors and it's imperative that we strengthen our posture and close gaps that could be exploited during these heightened uh international attention events. We know that terrorist organizations rely on complex methods to move people, money, and prohibitive materials across borders. Yet our current posture does not fully account for how those methods intersect with the vulnerabilities along the northern border.
▶ 1:04:40And we must deepen our understanding of the crossber facilitation networks that enable elicit movement, including those tied to criminal smuggling pipelines and confront the online extremist ecosystems that fuel radicalization and recruitment combined with differing immigration postures between the US and Canada. Crossber travel demonstrates increasing risk that we must be prepared to preempt at border crossings.
▶ 1:05:05We must also strengthen defenses against prohibitive materials from chemical and biological attacks to radiological and nuclear components. Although the White House's counterterrorism strategy prioritizes preventing terrorist access to such materials, northern border interdiction remains uneven and likewise crossber financial flows including illicit finance and money laundering must be rigorously monitored to prevent funds from supporting terrorism. Today's hearing is about being proactive.
▶ 1:05:33It is about recognizing emerging threats, acknowledging where our defenses fall short, and ensuring that federal law enforcement has the support, coordination, and resources needed to keep our country safe. As cartels, transnational criminal organizations, and violent extremist groups look north for new pathways to exploit, we must ensure that the northern border is prepared for the challenges ahead. You're going to hear a lot about President Trump. You're going to hear a lot about enforcing the laws. Well, if we don't like the laws, then we should change them right here in this body.
▶ 1:06:02But right now, we have laws that need to be upheld. And for four years, we saw a complete complicitness of not enforcing those laws, and that's why we're here today. Unfortunately, that's why we have to talk about these subjects. So, if we could just agree that our executive branch would enforce the laws evenly, then we'd be okay. I yield back and thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you, Chairman Fluger. I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, the gentleman from the great state of Mississippi, Mr. Thompson, to deliver his opening statement.
▶ 1:06:31Thank you very much uh Mr. Chairman from the great state of Mississippi. Also uh good afternoon. Uh this hearing has been called to examine the threat landscape at [snorts] our northern border. The northern border faces threats and vulnerabilities ranging from wildlife and drug trafficking to human smuggling. Democrats are committed to addressing those threats.
▶ 1:06:56However, we cannot limit today's oversight to just northern border and ignore the flagrant abuses from DHS operations across the country. That would be like fixing the fence around that. That would be like fixing the fence around a house that's collapsed.
▶ 1:07:16Since the beginning of this second term, President Trump has weaponized DHS and other law enforcement agencies to carry out his cruel mass deportation agenda. Americans across the country have witnessed a cruel agenda firsthand, which has yielded nothing but chaos. The administration claimed that they were going after the worst of the worst.
▶ 1:07:42Instead, they have been targeting anyone they suspect to be undocumented based on the color of their skin and accent they have. Nearly 43% of those detained by ICE by January 2026 had no criminal conviction or charges. Let me say that again.
▶ 1:08:04By January 2026, nearly 43% of those detained by ICE had zero criminal convictions or charges. So much for the worst of the worst. Masked unidentifiable immigration agents have been conducting non-targeted operations, abducting citizens and nonsitizens alike in unmarked vans. There are no limits to where people could be arrested.
▶ 1:08:34The Trump administration has deployed or threatened to deploy armed federal agents to sensitive locations like churches, hospitals, schools, daycare, and polling locations. People should not fear from being arrested while praying at houses of worship, seeking medical care, or tending to their children.
▶ 1:08:58and ICE and CBP agents should not be deployed near voting facilities to intimidate voters. In fact, it is illegal for them to enter polling places. The human cost of these operations cannot be ignored. Countless number of American citizens and protesters have been pepper-sprayed, beaten, tased, and aggressively arrested. People have died from these operations.
▶ 1:09:28Renee Good and Alex Prey, both American citizens, were shot and killed by DHS while protesting. This is not who we are as a country. The constitutional cost cannot be ignored either. Last May, a senior ICE official issued guidance instructing agents to ignore the Fourth Amendment and enter private property without judicial warrants.
▶ 1:09:56Additionally, Border Zar Tom Holman bragged about a government database to track American citizens exercising their First Amendment right to protest. Big tech and social media media companies [snorts] have received hundreds of DHS administrative subpoenas requesting the names, emails, and phone numbers of social media accounts that track and criticize DHS.
▶ 1:10:27DHS agents have tracked down individual American citizens, threatening them and asking for them to remove post criticizing the department. The shooting down of protesters in the streets and the surveillance and intimidation of those who speak out is reminiscent of our authoritarian adversaries. This should be frightening to all of us.
▶ 1:10:54Yet, Republicans keep funding this administration's dangerous agenda. Congressional Republicans just passed a bill giving DHS $70 billion to fund Trump's immigration agenda for the rest of his term. This is on top of the $140 billion ICE and CBP received in last year's big ugly bill, most of which has not been spent yet.
▶ 1:11:24Combined, that's more than seven years worth of funding for these agencies in less than a year. For the past year and a half, Democrats have advocated for comprehensive and common sense reforms to DHS immigration And at every turn, Trump, DHS, and congressional Republicans have bucked every attempt toward change and reform.
▶ 1:11:52But while Republicans bury their head in the sand and turn a blind eye to this harmful agenda, Democrats will call attention to the abuses and hold this administration accountable. With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
▶ 1:12:09Uh, the gentleman yields back. Thank you for your opening statement. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses. The first is Mr. Jason Snyder who serves as the acting director, acting deputy chief of the US border patrol within US customs and border prot protection. The second is Mr.
▶ 1:12:36Chris Holtzler who serves as executive director of operations of the office of field operations within US customs and border protection. Our third witness is Mr. Michael Croll, who serves as the assistant director of domestic operations within HSI, and our fourth witnesses, Miss Heather Mloud, who serves as the director of homeland security and justice at the government accountability offices.
▶ 1:13:02I'd first like to thank all of our witnesses uh for being with us today. At this time, pursuant to committee rule HC, I would ask our witnesses if they would please raise their right hand and please stand.
▶ 1:13:21Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the Committee on Homeland Security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. May the record reflect that all of the witnesses have responded in the affirmative. Uh please be seated. Uh would now turn to opening statements on behalf of our panel this afternoon.
▶ 1:13:50Uh and I would now recognize Mr. Snyder for five minutes to summarize his opening statement. Chairman, guest, ranking member Thompson, Ranking Member Korea, Chairman Fluger, Ranking Member Magaziner, and distinguished members of the subcommittees. Good afternoon. I am Jason Schneider, acting deputy chief of the United States Border Patrol. It is an honor to represent the dedicated men and women who secure our borders every day, often in remote and demanding conditions.
▶ 1:14:21Over my 30 years of service, I have served along the southwest, coastal, and northern borders, each presenting unique challenges. The northern border is a critical front in our national security mission. Spanning more than 5,500 miles across 13 states, it is the longest international border we secure.
▶ 1:14:42This vast expanse encompasses dense forests, major waterways, rugged terrain, and sparsely populated regions with limited The size and complexity of this environment combined with rapidly changing weather require an aggressive and layered enforcement strategy. We leverage every available tool and resource to deny transnational criminal organizations any opportunity to exploit our border.
▶ 1:15:10The threat environment continues to evolve and every state is now considered a border state. Smugglers and criminal organizations constantly adapt their tactics in response to our enforcement posture. While overall seizures have fallen 55% compared to last year, narcotics trafficking remains a persistent threat. Border Patrol agents are interdicting dangerous drugs, including fentanyl, before they reach American communities.
▶ 1:15:38We are implementing a holistic approach to to address the northern border threat. Our workforce authorized for agents along the northern border is being expanded to meet the operational demands of this environment. We are increasing the number of agents assigned to the northern border to ensure we have the personnel needed to close gaps, surge resources, and maintain operational control. The results speak for themselves.
▶ 1:16:06Over the past 17 months, we have made measurable progress in securing our borders. Following a peak in fiscal year 2024, when northern border apprehensions reached over we achieved a 67% reduction in fiscal year 25 and an additional 22% decrease this fiscal year. We have apprehended 33 gang and cartel members this year alone, including members of MS-13, Trende Aaragua, and the Latin Kings.
▶ 1:16:37These results are the product of the aggressive enforcement, targeted operational adjustments, and the consistent application of consequences through prosecution, detention, and removal for those who violate US immigration law. We are leveraging technology as a force multiplier.
▶ 1:16:57Our layered technology enabled approach integrates surveillance systems, remote sensors, mobile detection capabilities, air and marine assets, and advanced communication networks. These tools provide our agents with the advantage needed to detect, identify, classify, and respond to illicit activity. These investments are essential to maintaining operational awareness in remote and challenging However, technology alone is not enough.
▶ 1:17:27Infrastructure investments, including access roads, facilities, and communication systems are critical to sustaining our our operational reach and agent safety. We are committed to accelerating the development and deployment of these assets. Continued investment in infrastructure is necessary to eliminate gaps, maximize the effectiveness of our personnel and technology, and ensure we stay ahead of those who threaten our security.
▶ 1:17:55The northern border environment remains highly dynamic and challenging. Transnational criminal organizations and cartels continue to pose a persistent threat to the United States and Canada. Migration patterns will shift in response to our actions. We are unwavering in our commitment to expanding our workforce, advancing technology, strengthening infrastructure, and maintaining relentless operational focus to confront these threats and safeguard our nation.
▶ 1:18:26Border security is national security. Our agents are exceptionally trained, resilient, and deeply committed to the mission. Every day they stand on the front lines, conducting rigorous patrols, responding swiftly to emergencies, interdicting sophisticated smuggling operations, and executing complex search and rescue missions under the most demanding and hazardous conditions.
▶ 1:18:50The men and women of the United States Bord Patrol consistently deliver results, restoring order, and protecting the American people with unmatched discipline and determination. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I look forward to your
▶ 1:19:06Uh, thank you, Mr. Snyder. I now recognize Mr. Holtzler for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.
▶ 1:19:14Good afternoon, Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, Ranking Member Aarea, Chairman Fluger, Ranking Member Magazer, and distinguished members of the subcommittees. It is an honor to appear before you today on behalf of the dedicated men and women of US Customs and Border Protections Office of Field Operations, commonly referred to as OFO. OFO plays a critical role in safeguarding US borders.
▶ 1:19:36Our ports of entry essential for lawful commerce and travel are constantly targeted by transnational criminal organizations and others seeking to exploit the high volume of crossber activity. Along our nation's northern border, dedicated OFO personnel stationed at 118 border crossings safeguard our homeland, enforce immigration and trade laws, and ensure the efficient flow of lawful trade and commerce.
▶ 1:20:02Within this complex in environment, the northern border faces persistent and evolving threats. These include the trafficking of narcotics and other contraband, inadmissible travelers, human smuggling, as well as biological and agricultural threats that could harm our communities and and economy. Adding to these challenges and unique to northern border ports of entry, is the practice of flag polling. This occurs when foreign nationals with temporary Canadian status attempt to reenter Canada through a US port of entry to access immigration services.
▶ 1:20:34While Canada's policy changes have significantly reduced this activity, OFO remains vigilant, ensuring our resources are not diverted from critical security functions and that our ports are not exploited for purposes outside their intended roles. Despite these complexities, our officers deliver significant results through diligent enforcement actions and strategic operations. In fiscal year 2025, OFO officers along the northern border processed over 56 million travelers and nearly 25 million conveyances.
▶ 1:21:05Our effective enforcement operations led to the seizure of nearly 11,000 pounds of narcotics, which represents a significant 51% increase from FY24. These results directly stem from our ability to adapt and target our enforcement operations to meet dynamic threats. I'd like to share a couple of recent examples. In June of 2025, Operation Motor City, a targeted enforcement operation in the Detroit field office, disrupted narcotics and elicit contraband smuggling through specific ports of entry.
▶ 1:21:35This operation culminated in nine seizures, including 341 pounds of cocaine and a federal In September of 2025, Operation Northern Lights in Montana targeted northbound narcotic smuggling. Beyond drug seizures, the operation led to an inbound seizure of stolen Native American artifacts and initiated a criminal investigation. These operations highlight the importance of LFO enforcement operations, considering how seemingly unrelated criminal activities can intersect.
▶ 1:22:04These special targeted operations are also in addition to the inbound and outbound enforcement actions and seizures we perform every day. Just two weeks ago, near the Blue Water Bridge, OFFO selected a vehicle bound for Canada for examination and intercepted 133 pounds of cocaine. OFO's strategy and enforcement approach enables us to respond effectively to dynamic threats. We le we leverage specialized canines, advanced non-intrusive inspection technology, and the experience, vigilance, and dedication of our highly trained law enforcement personnel.
▶ 1:22:34Our approach also includes enhanced information sharing and collaboration with other federal agencies, state, local, and tribal partners, and our Canadian counterparts. To further strengthen our capabilities, we continue to invest in our personnel and port infrastructure. As of March 31st, the Northern Border is staffed at 95.9% of its allocated CBP officers. We expect to hire an additional 200 officers through working family tax cut Act funding, which will further strengthen our inspection, targeting, and enforcement capabilities.
▶ 1:23:03The infrastructure investment jobs act also provided $3.4 billion to modernize 20 northern border land ports of entry, including $333 million for equipment. Crucially, our northern border enforcement efforts are amplified through strong partnerships. Shifting trends and adversary tactics mean that efforts to counter transnational criminal activity require coordination and cooperation across the law enforcement community.
▶ 1:23:29OFO works extensively with our CBP and DHS colleagues as well as federal, state, local, tribal, and international partners and provides critical capabilities toward the whole of government approach to address drug trafficking and other transnational threats along the northern border. The men and women of OFO are dedicated to securing our nation's borders. With your continued support, we will remain vigilant against evolving threats and ensure the integrity of our ports of entry, which are vital to both national security and economic prosperity. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 1:23:59I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:24:01Thank you, Mr. Holtzler. I would now like to recognize Mr. Croll for five minutes to summarize his opening
▶ 1:24:08Thank you, sir. Chairman, guest, Chairman Fluger, ranking members Thompson, Korea, Magaziner, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Being the largest investigative agency within DHS and wielding some of the most expansive investigative authorities in the federal government, HSI special agents, criminal analysts, and support staff operate on the front lines of a rapidly evolving threat landscape.
▶ 1:24:35With our 8,500 special agents assigned to over 240 domestic field offices and 90 international offices, we are well positioned to confront threats from drug cartels, human trafficking, weapon smuggling networks, moneyaundering organizations, child exploitation, and cyber enabled crime networks who proliferate illicit trade, travel, and finance.
▶ 1:24:57In addition to investigating crimes that intersect with terrorism and hostile foreign actors, my testimony today will focus on how the global threat environment is evolving along our northern border, how HSI is addressing these threats, and how the Homeland Security task forces co-led by HSI and FBI have significantly enhanced our ability to synchronize efforts across a law enforcement enterprise to disrupt and dismantle cartels, trafficking networks, and designated foreign terrorist organizations
▶ 1:25:28from root to branch. The United States and Canada share the longest international border in the world. As such, HSI maintains a robust a robust presence in Canada with six offices, five of which house HSI's visa security program, special agents. Our forward deployed workforce and country allows for enhanced integration of efforts with CBSA, RCMP, tribal and provincial partners among others.
▶ 1:25:58Building capacity, sharing intelligence, coordinating operations, and supporting bilateral investigations. Human smuggling remains a persistent and dangerous threat. When networks attempt to smuggle aliens across the border, these attempts can result in a tragic loss of life. As a result of a failed human human smuggling attempt from Canada into the United States, eight aliens including two children perished.
▶ 1:26:24HSI identified and arrested six members of that transnational criminal organization responsible for this tragedy. Delivering consequences to those who perpetrate such horrific actions takes close coordination between HSI special agents, prosecutors from DOJ, and the brave members of US Border Patrol, CBP OFO, among others. In 2024, Canadian law enforcement dismantled a clandestine superlab in Ontario, sparking concern that Canada was emerging as a source country.
▶ 1:26:54While information shows that Canadian produced fentinel remains relatively low compared to Mexican sources, we do see the seizures of cocaine and fentinyl at the northern border have increased, underscoring the northern border's role as a key vector for high value narcotics. Weapons trafficking follows similar similar routes.
▶ 1:27:13In the past year and a half, HSI has initiated 70 firearms trafficking investigations with an nexus to Canada, resulting in the seizure of over 400 firearms and 50,000 rounds of ammunition and dozens of arrests and indictments. These efforts are critical to disrupting the procurement networks that arm violent criminal groups on both sides of the border. TCOs also target US victims through a myriad of fraud and online exploitation.
▶ 1:27:40A recent joint investigation dismantled a Canadian-based criminal organization that defrauded elderly Americans of over $21 million. Even more troubling is the rise in child exploitation cases with criminals using open web and dark web platforms, encrypted technologies and other forms of messaging to groom victims in trafficking child child sexual abuse material across the digital border.
▶ 1:28:05The HSEled DHS cyber crime center is a world leader in this space and in partnership with Canadian authorities are using every resource available to us to protect our most vulnerable children. The criminal activities I have described today generate substantial illicit proceeds. Sophisticated complex financial investigations are at the core of the HSI mission.
▶ 1:28:28To address these challenges, HSI uses our crossber financial crime center, the HSDF or homeland security task force national coordination center and our partner and international counterparts to identify and dismantle these illicit financial networks. As we confront these evolving threats, I respectfully ask for your continued support of our workforce to ensure that we remain in a position of advantage against our adversaries. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:28:58Uh thank you, Mr. Croll. I would now like to recognize Miss McCloud for five minutes to summarize her opening Chairman, guest and fluger, ranking members Thompson, Koreah, and Magaziner, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss GAO's work examining CBP operations and resources at the northern border. Security threats along the northern border, like drug and firearm smuggling, continue.
▶ 1:29:28At the same time, threats such as drone crossings are increasing. My testimony today focuses on key challenges CBP faces in securing the northern border and actions that GAO's work has identified to help CBP address them. GAO reported on northern border security in 2019 and again earlier this year.
▶ 1:29:52This work has shown that CBP has expanded surveillance technology along the northern border, but a lack of clear performance metrics and persistent staffing shortages remain. Under the reconciliation bills, CBP was allocated billions of dollars to hire and train agents and support staff and to purchase additional surveillance technology.
▶ 1:30:16As CBP spends this additional funding, it is important that decision-making is supported by planning, including clear goals and performance measures. Regarding CBP resources along the northern border, GAO found that in recent years, CBP use of aircraft, boats, and surveillance technology along the northern border increased. For example, technology like camera towers and sensors have been increasingly deployed.
▶ 1:30:47With reconciliation funding, CBP has an opportunity to expand these efforts even more and increase its use of emergency technologies such as autonomous surveillance towers. But our 2019 work found that CBP does not have performance measures to gauge how effectively it is securing the US Canada border. This includes the effectiveness of various border security investments including border barriers and technology.
▶ 1:31:18Such measures could help CB CBP assess the effectiveness of northern border operations and take corrective actions as necessary. CBP staffing on the northern border is a persistent challenge. GAO found that the number of CBP agents along the northern border decreased from 2019 to 2024.
▶ 1:31:42This decrease in agents assigned to the northern border also came at a time when authorized levels were going up, meaning that CBP wasn't able to fulfill the positions it deemed necessary at the northern border locations. In addition to uniformed agents, our prior work also found that border patrol had not filled or retained staff for certain specialist positions across the northern border.
▶ 1:32:10Specialists have a range of responsibilities including monitoring surveillance technology such as the feeds from camera towers and ground sensors. We recommended that CBP develop a plan to address these workforce gaps.
▶ 1:32:25Other factors that may continue to stretch CBP presence at the northern border and affect CBP's ability to meet its mission more generally include increased efforts at the southern border and an expected upcoming retirement surge. We previously reported that CBP has taken action to strengthen its recruitment, hiring, and retention efforts for Border Patrol agents.
▶ 1:32:50Additionally, CBP received billions of dollars in the last year to hire and train additional CBP agents and officers and provide recruitment and retention bonuses, which could help CBP address these workforce challenges. In conclusion, CBP continues to focus its border security operations along the northern border on key threat areas while also monitoring and addressing other threats such as vehicle and drone crossings.
▶ 1:33:21Addressing our recommendations related to staffing and performance management would help CBP assess the effectiveness of its northern border efforts, which is particularly important as CBP draws down reconciliation funds. Addressing our recommendations would also help ensure that border patrol has sufficient personnel with the appropriate skills to effectively use surveillance technology. Thank you for inviting me today.
▶ 1:33:50I want to thank again all of our witnesses uh for their opening statement and their willingness to participate in today's hearing. Uh members will now be recognized by order of seniority for five minutes of questioning. Uh I will begin by recognizing myself for five minutes. Uh first um to our um witnesses uh we want to thank you for the incredible job that you have done.
▶ 1:34:18the men and women at CBP, uh, at DHS, at HSI. Um, what you have accomplished over the last 18 months can be described as nothing more than miraculous. Uh, we have seen, uh, what I believe uh, is a dramatic change uh, in the um, carrying out of the law at not only the northern border, but as well as the southern border.
▶ 1:34:47Uh we have seen numbers of encounters drop dramatically. We have seen increases in seizures. Uh and I believe that today America is safer uh and that we are more secure than at any time uh in our nation's history or at least in our recent history. Um Mr. Snder, you mentioned in your opening statement that you have served for for 30 years. uh and thank you for those three decades of service.
▶ 1:35:16Uh you mentioned some of the challenges that exist along the northern border uh particularly with the uh size of the area that you must cover some 4,000 plus miles also the geography uh but that varies from one end of the border to the other. Um, I want to ask you, um, are encounters along the northern border, uh, since President Trump, uh, took office, are those total encounters up or down?
▶ 1:35:48Chairman, thank you for the question. The apprehensions along the northern border are down since last year, uh, roughly 22% this fiscal year, and they were down 67% FY25 compared to FY24. And are drug seizures up or down since President Trump took office?
▶ 1:36:06Drug seizures along the northern border for the US Border Patrol are down by 55%. However, we are still seeing narcotics that are still um getting by from the southwest border going up to northern border cities and being distributed out. We are working with our local, state, federal partners and uh attacking those networks.
▶ 1:36:24And at the northern border, our se seizures are up if I'm not mistaken. Narcotic seizures.
▶ 1:36:29Yes. cross border they're they're down but within the within the northern border regions uh they are up. Yes.
▶ 1:36:36Okay. So crossber encounters down, crossber drug seizures down. Uh but uh and you also mentioned that you are in the process of hiring additional agents uh that will be staged at the northern border. Is that correct?
▶ 1:36:51Sir, that is correct. Uh it's a really good news story. We're making history as we as we speak. Uh last year alone we had 86,000 US citizens apply to become a border patrol agent. This fiscal year 60,000 in the pipeline. We currently have 7,000 in the pre-mployment pipeline and 2,000 Border Patrol agents at the Border Patrol Academy right now and a lot of those will be going to the northern border. Uh we have not lowered our standards. We have adjusted the schedules at the US Border Patrol Academy.
▶ 1:37:20Uh and we're at two shifts. Um so it's it's good news for for us. Our goal is to have 3,500 border patrol agents assigned to the northern border in the very near future.
▶ 1:37:30And let me ask this, the question I would routinely ask Secretary Mayorcus when he would testify before this committee. Uh is the northern border
▶ 1:37:41No, not right now. We're getting there though, sir. We are we are implementing a holistic approach to include increased staffing, infrastructure, um technology. Um we're close. We'll get there. And do we have operational control of the border?
▶ 1:37:57I mean, I I think we have a good understanding. We do not have 100% situational awareness along the 5500 miles on the northern border. Um, but our agents are out there every day working hard, leveraging technology, leveraging our partnerships uh with local, state, and federal and and our Canadian partners.
▶ 1:38:14Thank you. Uh, Miss McCloud, uh, I have looked at the report from February 26th from the GAO. Um it is a very thorough 60 plus page report if you include exhibits. Uh there uh on page 51 you have the conclusion and then the recommendations for executive action.
▶ 1:38:36Uh and the recommendations deal with staffing shortage in one particular subset uh of law enforcement officials specifically the law enforcement information system specialist position. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct.
▶ 1:38:53Um, and it says in the conclusion that we are only 77% uh staffed for that particular position.
▶ 1:39:03That is correct at the time of our review. Yes.
▶ 1:39:05Uh, and how many uh employees had CBP authorized for that particular position?
▶ 1:39:12Uh, I don't have that number on here.
▶ 1:39:14Does 115 sound correct?
▶ 1:39:16That's about right. Yeah. Uh and in looking at the report, 88% of those um positions had been filled.
▶ 1:39:22Uh so total number that needed to be filled to reach the conclusion and the recommendation for executive action would have been the hiring of 27 additional employees. Is that correct?
▶ 1:39:35Uh with that, uh I am over time. So, I would now like to recognize the ranking member of the full committee u from again the great state of Mississippi, Mr. Thompson for his five minutes of
▶ 1:39:50Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me thank our witnesses for uh their testimony. Uh Assistant Director Croll, earlier this year, Steve Bannon and other mega extremists suggested that I send agents to polling places. uh locations for this November. And the White House refused to take the idea off the table.
▶ 1:40:16Although ICE officials have told this committee that there are no plans to send ICE to polling locations. Earlier this month, there were reports that ICE vehicles were in the parking lot of polling locations in California. And just last week, ICE agents entered a polling place in Syracuse, New York, uh, to accost the pole worker for exercising her first amendment rights.
▶ 1:40:45Have you been briefed on the Syracuse or California situation?
▶ 1:40:51Sir, I could I could speak generally to the to the Syracuse event,
▶ 1:40:55please. Uh it was my understanding it's a uh an interview uh for our office of professional responsibility unrelated to the polling event. It was it was merely that the person that was in that location uh was a suspect that the agents from uh OPR would be uh attempting to interview unrelated to you know any type of fraud or that location.
▶ 1:41:18But uh agents did go into the polling I don't have the specifics but it is my understanding that uh that person relayed that u the location of her business was you know that specific location hence why they went to that location for the
▶ 1:41:36So are you familiar with section 5 92 of title 18 of the US code?
▶ 1:41:45Uh not directly sir. Well, for your information, it bars the presence of armed federal officers at polling places except to repel armed enemies of the United States. Um, so, uh, can you share with us any training that ICE agents might receive relative to section 592, uh, of title 18?
▶ 1:42:16I don't have specifics on on that. Sir,
▶ 1:42:19can you provide the committee uh with that information?
▶ 1:42:24I'd be happy to get that back to you.
▶ 1:42:26Right. And and the goal of this statute is to prevent voter intimidation. Uh unfortunately, it appears that the goal of this administration uh in its public statement is to intimidate voters or interfere with state and local efforts to administer elections.
▶ 1:42:46Uh and so I will you commit uh to this committed today that you will not deploy ICE agents to or around polling places while voting is underway. Sir, what I can say is that there are no plans that I'm aware of uh for HSI special agents uh to be, you know, in uh voting locations at all.
▶ 1:43:13So, if it's a violation of the law, you you'll follow the law.
▶ 1:43:18That's correct, sir.
▶ 1:43:19Thank you. Uh lastly, judicial warrants. Are you aware of ICE agents uh continuing to enter businesses or residences without judicial warrants?
▶ 1:43:40Sir, what I could say is HSI special agents use judicial warrants to enter locations, you know, that are reviewed by a whether a state or federal judge uh in furtherance or criminal investigations uh every single day.
▶ 1:43:56So, are you aware of ICE agents entering businesses and residences without judicial warrants?
▶ 1:44:03I'm not specifically aware of those instances, sir. No.
▶ 1:44:07Thank you. Um, Mr. Snider, are you aware of any search
▶ 1:44:20No, sir. I'm not aware of any. um, Holster, sir.
▶ 1:44:30Yes, sir.
▶ 1:44:31Oh, no, sir.
▶ 1:44:32Okay. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair. [snorts]
▶ 1:44:34Gentlemen, years back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Fluger, for his five minutes of
▶ 1:44:42Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, and again, I thank the witnesses for your your service uh despite tough rhetoric um and unfortunate rhetoric uh that you continue to keep our country safe and we appreciate that. Um, if u I'll pick up where Mr. Schneider kind of left off on, you know, how difficult it is to have situational awareness, operational control, continue to keep these uh the border safe.
▶ 1:45:09So, um, had we not passed a Republicanonly reconciliation bill with funding for DHS elements, U, Miss McCloud, what what would that look like as far as the resources needed to enforce the northern border had we not put uh in one big beautiful bill 5,000 new customs officers, 3,000 new Border Patrol agents, and 24.5 billion into the
▶ 1:45:39coast guard amongst other things. What would that look like in keeping the northern border safe?
▶ 1:45:45I think the reconciliation funding um from the one big beautiful bill and and the secure America act provided a a great opportunity um for these DHS components to increase their staffing levels, upgrade facilities, and increase their surveillance technology. For sure.
▶ 1:46:06Mr. Mr. Holtzer, how hard is it um for CBP and Mr. Schneider, how hard is it for CBP to allocate resources between hotspots when you have a massive surge with millions of people coming across one border, but then knowing that we have vulnerabilities on the northern
▶ 1:46:26Sir, thank you for the question. It is a challenge. The last four years were extremely difficult for us. At any given time, we had 30% of our border patrol agents out in the field doing patrol duties. 30%. The other 70 were doing processing, care, feeding, custody.
▶ 1:46:42Um, I'm proud to say today, right now, we have on any given day 80 to 90% of our Border Patrol agents out there doing their job, leveraging making arrests, uh, doing prosecutions, uh, you know, working with ICE to to deport people from this country. So, the morale is very high. if we didn't have this this funding. So, thank you for that. Uh, another another issue would be our fleet. Our fleet was in dire situation. About 70% of our fleet had reached or was beyond their the life cycle.
▶ 1:47:12So, we are now getting new vehicles in. It's uh we're in a good place and and I've already talked about the staffing piece. We have a lot of agents at the academy.
▶ 1:47:19Mr. Halter. Um, as far as the drones uh that air and marine operations use, h how big of an advantage is that to to be able to patrol our borders and to see crossings at the time that they're
▶ 1:47:32Sir, I'll actually defer that to Chief U Schneider as as his his office is who oversees them.
▶ 1:47:39sir. Thank you for the question. It's it's a force multiplier for us. uh when we have agents flying uh SUAS small drones, it's ability to get up and see see a greater area to to be able to cover a larger area. And then of course working with our partners uh air and marine operations um having that ability uh for persistent surveillance uh not only along the southern border but also on the northern border. It's a it's a huge force multiplier for us.
▶ 1:48:04Um for the three of you specifically, Mr. Schneider, Holtzer, and Croll. Uh I'll start with you, Mr. Kroll. Uh do the do the agencies that you uh work with and and lead do they enforce the law to the letter of the law?
▶ 1:48:20They do, sir.
▶ 1:48:21Okay. Mr. Holtz,
▶ 1:48:23oh yes, sir.
▶ 1:48:24Mr. Schneider.
▶ 1:48:25Yes, sir. We do enforce the law proudly.
▶ 1:48:27When somebody misses a notice to appear, is that a crime?
▶ 1:48:34It's an administrative violation. Yes.
▶ 1:48:37Okay. Mr. Mr. Holtzer, when they cross between um ports of entry and don't go into a port of entry, what is that
▶ 1:48:46Uh and uh entering without inspection,
▶ 1:48:49and and what's the consequence of of
▶ 1:48:52Um arrest and a detention, sir.
▶ 1:48:54Okay, Mr. Croll, thank you for what uh um let me get to a topic that's not very fun or nice, but um tell us a little bit about what HSI does to arrest and detain and prevent child sex trafficking from happening in this country.
▶ 1:49:12Yeah, certainly, you know, very important topic, very important area. Uh HSI special agents uh are at the forefront of this fight to protect our children. uh emerging technologies. Uh you know, we know that child exploitation violators are early adopters of some of the most prolific technology there is. You know, we work every day with our partners from IAC task forces uh across the country.
▶ 1:49:36We have our uh cyber crime center uh which is a world leader in that uh working with our domestic and international partners to take the fight to global networks that proliferate such abuse. And are we vulnerable on the northern border for people that match the terror watch list or that are traffickers of of humans to come in?
▶ 1:49:53I'm sorry, sir.
▶ 1:49:54Are we vulnerable at the northern border for those types of people to try to enter our country?
▶ 1:49:58We are.
▶ 1:49:58I yield back.
▶ 1:50:00Gentleman yields back. The chairman now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Koreah, for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:50:07Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I my 10 years in this committee um I've had the opportunity to speak with agents of all of your departments hardworking individuals with a heart with morality knowing right from wrong. I can tell you right now we speak about spirit doing the job with confidence.
▶ 1:50:34A lot of the agents I've talked to in all of your departments are not happy hardworking individuals. They want to go after the sex offenders, the drug traffickers, the moneyaunderers. And when you put them to arrest people that are working, they don't like it. They've told me that These are your workers.
▶ 1:50:58Back home, we've spent 20, 30 years winning the confidence of a lot of these individuals that work in our communities so they can report crimes, so they can tell us who the bad actors are.
▶ 1:51:13And now when we have situations that when an individual goes to report a crime and they're arrested, you can understand what that does to our Forget about undocumented. Let's talk about American citizens, okay? In my district, and I've asked this of many individuals here, including the secretaries, both of them.
▶ 1:51:41What does it take to prove that you're an American citizen so you won't be harassed? What is it that I have to do? Do my constituents have to do with an accent dark skin to prove to your agents that you're American citizens? Mr. Schneider.
▶ 1:51:58Sir, thank you for the question. If you're a US citizen in this country, you're not required to present any type of identification. You can simply say I'm a US citizen.
▶ 1:52:07Mr. Holtz,
▶ 1:52:10I would agree with Mr. Schneider.
▶ 1:52:12Mr. Croll,
▶ 1:52:15same sir. I would agree with him. I hope you're training your agents on this because we've had people that show their blue passport and they're still arrested. I have people blonde hair, blue-eyed that are arrested. These are the individuals that are witnessing a situation out there. First amendment, right? Should those people be arrested? Should they be taken in? Mr. Schneider, peaceful protest.
▶ 1:52:42Sir, I mean I depending on the situation that you know we do have the authority
▶ 1:52:47an observation nothing else an observation like we get observed all the time out there.
▶ 1:52:52Yeah, I would have to take in the totality of the circumstances. We do have the authority under a Supreme Court rule Terry versus Ohio 1968. We do have the authority to detain people to include US citizens uh based if if they're they have any ties to a criminal
▶ 1:53:08If they don't have any an American citizen out there observing okay you take their photograph facial scanning. Do you put it in a database?
▶ 1:53:24I don't believe so sir.
▶ 1:53:26Mr. Holtzer. Uh sir, I'm not uh familiar with that
▶ 1:53:31Mr. Crow?
▶ 1:53:33No, sir.
▶ 1:53:33Let me ask the question different way. Are HSI, Homeland Security, any of your agencies keeping a database on American citizens that have not been charged with any crime?
▶ 1:53:48Not that I'm aware of, sir.
▶ 1:53:50Uh not that I'm aware of either, sir.
▶ 1:53:52So, Mr. Schneider, how about you? Barring an association with a criminal investigation, criminal arrest. No.
▶ 1:53:59No. Then why would your your agents essentially say that to American citizens, threatening them, saying we are going to put your information in a terrorist database?
▶ 1:54:12Yes, sir. I'm not aware of that situation or that occurrence,
▶ 1:54:14Mr. Holtz. Sir,
▶ 1:54:16nor am I aware, sir.
▶ 1:54:17Mr. Croll,
▶ 1:54:19I can't speak to why they would say that. Yeah, there have been cases like this. And I guess we're going to disagree on the facts here, but it comes back to another issue, which is the training. I've talked to your agents, and I know that the recent hires have not received the same training as those other agents that you've hired for a number of years. You're you're so intent on hiring agents, and I I get it. You need them, but they're not receiving the same training.
▶ 1:54:50You bring them in, you tell them, "Go enforce the laws in the interior of this country, and they don't know how to address the rights of an American citizen." I ran out of time, but I'd love to talk to you about these issues because this is what my constituents about. We're not a police state yet. We don't want to get there. And for you to do your job, you have to have the cooperation of American citizens. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I
▶ 1:55:18Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Brew Keane, for five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:55:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To our witnesses, thank you for your role in securing our borders. Um 50-year low of border crossings at the southern border. We the point of this hearing is to talk about, you know, what vulnerabilities are on the northern border. And during the Biden administration, there was a significant increase of those that would have a commercial driver's license.
▶ 1:55:51And in in violation of Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration guidelines, but the states were doing some things to u move around that. Are you seeing given that the largest second largest trading partner we have is Canada.
▶ 1:56:07Are you concerned or seen any issues regarding commercial drivers l non-domicile drivers that would utilize our northern border u that could be making us vulnerable uh for any type of attack or
▶ 1:56:27Uh sir I'm not uh familiar with any specific instances related to that. Any other panelist? So what I can say is HSI special agents conduct investigations every day of uh CDL uh licenses, you know, transportation and logistics networks that are moving drugs, weapons, any contraband. Uh we conduct undercover operations, cabotage investigations.
▶ 1:56:53We investigate the schools and and other locations uh that may be training these uh these CDL drivers uh if they're complicit or uh illicit uh in uh in providing the training or the CDL licenses themselves.
▶ 1:57:11Mr. Schneider, you have anything to add? I'm I am curious as to they're non-domiciled. They have they present a driver's license, Canadian issued. Is there anything anything more we need to be doing as a as a nation to look into
▶ 1:57:25Sir, not that I'm aware of. I mean, we work very closely with HSI with some of the operations that that Mr. Croll spoke about. Uh we do encounter these subjects at our check at our checkpoints along the southwest border. However, not so much on the northern border. Chinese nationalists that were crossing under the Biden administration. How do you assess that threat today? They were crossing the northern border. What is the status of that threat today?
▶ 1:57:53I I loved your commentary about the 85% of your staffing that is securing our border, Mr. Snyder, compared to 70% of them having to be involved in the detaining of those who had crossed. So, how is the threat coming from the Chinese nationalists that were exploiting our northern border?
▶ 1:58:17Sir, thank you for the question. Uh, the Chinese national threat along the northern border has dra drastically reduced um because we've been, you know, we have more agents out there on the patrol now. Like I like I talked about 85% of our border patrol agents are actually out doing physical patrols. Um, so we're not encountering uh those those uh subjects. uh a little bit on the southwest border but uh not to the extent that we were along the northern border uh during the previous
▶ 1:58:44Any other panelists want to comment?
▶ 1:58:48What I would say sir is is Chinese nationals uh you know deploy a little bit more sophisticated uh approach than than most whereas they're using visa fraud and other um other efforts to try to enter the United States which would normally be through a port of entry.
▶ 1:59:03Uh HSI uses our visa security program and other um affiliations and partnerships with you know FBI, Department of State and others to make sure that we're pushing those borders out so we identify those that are a threat to the United States uh and stop them before they enter the United States.
▶ 1:59:20And both the the my previous questions are in tandem with my last question and it's about fentanel and its movement across the northern border. Um what is the uh change in the last couple of years with what we're seeing whether it be the uh drug itself or precursors?
▶ 1:59:41We're not seeing the level of se seizures or crossber seizures for fentanyl along the northern border. I certainly would defer to my colleagues uh regarding fentanyl.
▶ 1:59:51Yes sir. Likewise we're not seeing a drastic change across the northern border. In fact, the most we've seen, I think in one area was Blaine Washington with about two pounds total of of a fentanel. The bulk majority of what we see is coming across the southwest What I would say is our work, these are the same cartels that are, you know, proliferating this poison throughout the United States that are doing the same in Canada. They will do anything they can do to make money. Uh they will, you know, uh certainly, you know, push those drugs northbound.
▶ 2:00:20Uh we're doing everything we can to stop them. Uh obviously Canada is a source location for them uh and it's a way for them to make money so they will do anything to get those drugs into Canada.
▶ 2:00:30Mr. Chairman, I yield.
▶ 2:00:31Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from Rhode Island and the ranking member of the CTI subcommittee, Mr. Magazer, for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:00:42Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Director Croll, how many HSI agents has the Trump administration diverted away from working child exploitation cases to instead work on civil immigration
▶ 2:00:58Uh, sir, I I don't have the specific numbers of of HSI agents that have been uh deployed to to specific
▶ 2:01:05You are the assistant director of operations at HSI. Yes,
▶ 2:01:08that's correct.
▶ 2:01:09Okay. But you don't know how many of your agents have been taken off child exploitation cases to do immigration enforcement in
▶ 2:01:16not not specifically number for child exploitation. But what I can say is, you know, we certainly support uh whether it be our partners at BB.
▶ 2:01:23Well, let's try this. The New York Times reported last year that under the Trump administration, the second Trump administration, HSI agents worked 33% fewer hours on child exploitation cases because they had been reassigned to work immigration. Does that number sound plausible to you?
▶ 2:01:42I don't know this 33% but it sounds uh somewhat accurate.
▶ 2:01:46They also so it sounds somewhat accurate. Thank you. Uh they also reported that the number of indictments for child exploitation fell by 28%. Now listen Mr. Croll, I know that these are not your decisions. These are coming from the White House, these directives. But understand what this means everyone. Because every day that a child is being abused is hell for that child. There are children all over America being abused today, praying that today is the day that someone will come and rescue them.
▶ 2:02:15But because Steven Miller and Donald Trump are obsessed with getting as many immigrants out of the country as possible, HSI has been forced to allow child exploitation cases to languish. Meanwhile, by the Trump administration's own data, the vast majority of people who've been detained or deported in immigration enforcement are people with no criminal record. They're rounding up kids, the elderly, grandmas, gardeners.
▶ 2:02:45Two days ago, they arrested a nun in Texas, people just trying to work and make a living. And now we know that they are pulling HSI agents off of working child exploitation cases to instead go and round up harmless people on immigration charges. And it's not just child exploitation. HSI has been diverting agents away from investigating all kinds of crimes at the direction of the White House. Mr. Mr.
▶ 2:03:15Crawl, how many agents have been reassigned from drugs and and weapons cases to instead support the immigration
▶ 2:03:22So, I don't have the specific number on how many agents.
▶ 2:03:25All right. The New York Times reported last year that the number of illegal weapons seized by HSI dropped by 73%. Does this number sound accurate to you?
▶ 2:03:37doesn't. What do you think it is?
▶ 2:03:40I don't know what the specific
▶ 2:03:42All right. Well, I' I'd like to know what the number is, please. Because the bottom line is this. The Trump administration is making America less safe. They are pulling people off of gun cases, drug cases, child exploitation cases to instead go and try to deport Chief Schneider, last year, a border patrol agent named Charles Exum in Chicago rammed a car being driven by a preschool teacher named Miramar Martinez and then shot Miss Martinez five times.
▶ 2:04:13After shooting Miss Martinez, he sent text messages to other agents bragging about it and then drove,00 miles back to his home base in Maine. Now, this case has been widely reported on, especially because Mr. Exum and the Trump administration tried to lie and claim that Martinez had rammed Exom's vehicle, but then the release of the body camera footage actually showed the opposite, that he rammed her. But my question for you is this.
▶ 2:04:40Why was Agent Exom in Chicago to begin with if his home base, his home station was in Maine?
▶ 2:04:47Sir, thank you for the question. That was a DHSled operation. Um, so it was uh for the US Border Patrol. We did not have any command and control over that. So I can't speak to that.
▶ 2:04:58So yeah. So the answer is basically that he was one of the thousands of Border Patrol officers who was taken off of his regular duties at the border and instead sent to invade American cities as part of Operation Midway Blitz in Chicago and Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis. So this hearing is about securing the northern border. How many Border Patrol officers were taken off of the northern border uh and instead sent to Chicago and Minneapolis roughly?
▶ 2:05:25I will say far less agents uh were deployed to the interior of the country compared to the last administration. Do you have a number? Hundreds of virtual
▶ 2:05:36Okay, I'm going to reclaim my time. This this Mr. Exum was diverted, 1100 miles from Maine to Chicago, shot this woman five times. This is making the American people less safe. Chicago is not on the border. Minneapolis is not on the border. Securing the northern border is important. Securing all of our borders is important. We need to focus on that, not these immigration purges that have made American cities less safe. I'll yield back.
▶ 2:06:00Gentleman yields back. The chairman may respond to that or no.
▶ 2:06:04Uh the gentleman's time is expired. So the gentleman yields back. Uh the chair will now recognize Miss Biggs from South Carolina for her five minutes of
▶ 2:06:15Thank you, Chairman Guess for holding this important hearing on the northern border. Overall border encounters, they're down to historic lows thanks to the successes of President Trump, CBP, and ICE. This is a huge win, and I want to thank CBP and ICE for the amazing work they have done in securing the borders. While overall encounters are down, the location of those encounters is shifting.
▶ 2:06:41Northern border encounters have more than doubled from 5.92% to 13.08% 08% of all incidents. Drug seizures at the northern border are higher now in two in 2024. Central American cartels already have operations in Canada. Fentinil precursors are are brought into North America by the cartels in Vancouver, made into fentinel and smuggled across the northern border.
▶ 2:07:10Our border agents are doing well right now, but we must continue to support operations at the northern border to stay on top of the issue. So my first question, what unique environmental and technical problems exist at the northern border and how can Congress support border enforcement while considering the unique challenges of the US Canada border? And um Mr. Snyder, if you'll answer that.
▶ 2:07:38Ma'am, thank you for the question and I will tell you I would like to say thank you for the funding because that is absolutely going to help us address our deficiencies along the northern border. We have a holistic technological national strategy to address our deficiencies on the northern border. Uh we're leveraging, excuse me, leveraging uh autonomous technology that's going to free up our agents um from monitoring cameras uh in in stations. Our agents will be out there.
▶ 2:08:04We're going to have additional technology, SUAS technology, counter UAS technology to address the adversarial
▶ 2:08:15So, the chairman mentioned uh 4,000 miles like geography causing issues. Um, do you have anything to add on that?
▶ 2:08:25Yes, we also have a plan very modeled very much like what we're doing along the southwest border. uh we are going to in certain locations, high- threat locations, we're going to we're going to erect some type of infrastructure and whether it's a pile of rocks or some type of barrier be to address the the constant threat of vehicles driving across the northern border. We're also going to increase our staffing along with the technology that I spoke about.
▶ 2:08:49Mr. Holtzer, do you have anything to
▶ 2:08:53Um yes, ma'am. to Chief's point, you know, the increase in technology on the north on the northern border with non-intrusive scanning equipment is is phenomenal. Adding to that additional officers to be able to adjudicate those scans as we work to increase those scan rates would be extremely helpful. Thank you. So, states like New York, Minnesota, Washington, and Vermont compound the problem because of their sanctuary jurisdiction status.
▶ 2:09:18These states are attractive targets for illegal immigrants and smugglers alike because of their non-compliance with federal law and generous welfare programs. My bill, the Mobilizing Against Sanctuary Cities Act, would crack down on state and local jurisdictions that defy federal immigration authority and ignore ICE detention waiverss. So, Mr.
▶ 2:09:42Snyder, how do sanctuary jurisdictions make the job of ICE and CBP more difficult, especially as the percentage of illicit traffic coming to the northern border
▶ 2:09:54Thank you for the question, ma'am. You know, it's it's a tremendous challenge for us and I look at it uh I'm very concerned about our agent safety. So, if our agent encounters someone in and around the the border region um and they want to run the license plate, they can't do that. they they're unable in certain parts of the northern border, certain states, whether it's New York with the green light law or other locations, it it doesn't allow for the agent to know who that vehicle is registered to, and that presents an officer safety challenge.
▶ 2:10:23We've had two shootings, uh actually three shootings along the northern border. Unfortunately, one we lost an agent last year um to to a tragic event. So, it is a huge agent safety, officer safety concern for us.
▶ 2:10:36Okay. Thank you for your input. And Mr. Cole, do you have any additional information on that?
▶ 2:10:43I do. HSI special agents are considered immigration um officers under the definition of of most of those sanctuary laws. Uh and our agents in in many locations on the Northwest, uh the Pacific Northwest in New England and other areas are restricted from accessing many of the databases uh that Mr. Schneider mentioned.
▶ 2:11:03That's very interesting. Well, thank you very much for your time and I'll yield
▶ 2:11:09Gentle lady yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentle lady from Texas, Miss Johnson, for her five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:11:16Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it's good to see uh some of you back in front of the committee again. Thank you for being here. Um, Miss McCloud, I had some questions to follow up on your statement. Um, you made the statement that DHS doesn't have the capabilities to determine the effectiveness of their effort at the northern border. Could you please expand on that?
▶ 2:11:39I'm I'm curious as to why you don't believe that we have the ability to measure the effectiveness of the resources that we're deploying.
▶ 2:11:47Yeah. So in our review we found a a lack of performance metrics in terms of the surveillance and um people being deployed there uh what are the performance what's the performance of the various technology what's working what's not working um to give a better sense of what's effective and what could be further invested
▶ 2:12:08why don't we have such a metric in place
▶ 2:12:11uh this is a recommendation that we made to um DHS to implement a performance plan further.
▶ 2:12:18They haven't implemented it at this
▶ 2:12:20Um they are working on it and we continue to follow up.
▶ 2:12:24Okay. Um one of the other questions I have for the panel at large is do you guys feel like you have an adequate budget or do you have surplus funds that you're you just have you're not able to spend that you are exceeding you don't have enough money? Do you have little too little money or too much money or just enough money? I I think I think time will tell, ma'am. I think we have everything earmarked for exactly what we need with regards to infrastructure, uh staffing, fleet, all those things.
▶ 2:12:54I I think we're we really appreciate the support and we're going to do great things.
▶ 2:12:57You have a surplus in your budget?
▶ 2:12:59Uh no.
▶ 2:13:00Okay. So then I'm really concerned then as to why the Trump administration is threatening to take a $1 billion out of your budget. uh you've all have uh for um to use as a weapon for states that don't comply with election reforms that this administration has. Uh and I think that is irresponsible uh for the work that you're doing.
▶ 2:13:24I think everyone on this committee believes that we should have a strong border that we need good border enforcement and that um we may have disagreements of some of the aspects of the methodology upon which you do your work. Um, but we don't disagree that work is important. Um, and so I find it interesting that you come here on behalf of the administration.
▶ 2:13:45Um and but yet the administration uses you your agencies the funding for your agencies as a political tool for um elections saying that if they're going to take $1 billion out of your budget um uh for states that don't comply with um their voter fraud rutings. Do you have extra agents to deploy to election sites throughout this country? Sir,
▶ 2:14:11ma'am, we're laser focused on the border. We have no intention to be at election sites.
▶ 2:14:15Okay. So, when the administration says that they're going to use um Homeland Security personnel, Border Patrol personnel um to go to the elections and go to polling locations throughout this country in this upcoming November. Uh you as the acting head are saying that that's not in fact going to happen.
▶ 2:14:34I have not been told that by my chain of command at all, ma'am.
▶ 2:14:37Okay. and you don't have an extra $1 billion in your budget uh to deflect out of as a weapon to withhold from states and other partner organizations who refuse to comply with the Trump's perceived voter fraud investigations.
▶ 2:14:52I'm not going to comment on that.
▶ 2:14:53Okay, I think I'm out of time. Thank you very much.
▶ 2:14:58Uh the gentle lady Does the gentle lady yield back?
▶ 2:15:02Gentle lady yields back. At this point, the chair will recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Walkenshaw, for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:15:10Thank you, Mr. uh Chairman. Mr. Schneider, during this Trump administration, how many CBP personnel have faced disciplinary action related to the use of tear gas or other chemical munitions against children? Sir, I'm not aware of those statistics, but I'd be happy to get back with you with that information.
▶ 2:15:35Have any faced disciplinary action?
▶ 2:15:37I'm not aware of as of right now, sir.
▶ 2:15:39So, none.
▶ 2:15:41No, I didn't say none. I just I don't I don't know. I would
▶ 2:15:44That would be a good thing for you to
▶ 2:15:46I want I want to thank the chairman and the ranking member for convening the hearing today. This administration has sent minimally trained, heavily armed, masked agents into American communities. They've detained and killed American citizens, detonated flashbangs, broken down doors, dragged mothers from their cars, and teargassed children. The chaos that began under Secretary Gnome persists today under Secretary Mullen's leadership.
▶ 2:16:18And a recent ProPublica investigation found that 79 children have had tear gas, pepper spray, other chemical munitions deployed on them by DHS personnel, CBP and ICE. Now DHS has defended its use of tear gas against children, claiming the blame lies with the agitators.
▶ 2:16:42Not sure if those are the In November of 2025, ICE and CBP agents were found to be deploying tear gas without justification and without warning against people who pose no physical threat. I'll ask you, Mr.
▶ 2:16:58Holtzer, are you aware of any CBP personnel who have faced any disciplinary action as a result of using tear gas or chemical munitions against No sir, I'm not aware of any instance where tear gas was used against Mr.
▶ 2:17:19Holtzer, your agent's use of excessive force has harmed children, toddlers and babies, made them choke, cough, vomit, develop rashes, and scream in pain. And you might know this. We don't know the long-term consequences to the health of children when toxic tear gas is used against them. You said you weren't aware of instances of tear gas being used against children.
▶ 2:17:47Can we play the video, Mr. Chairman, can we stop the clock until the video plays? Thank you.
▶ 2:18:22Need someone to click play.
▶ 2:18:23This is what these terrorists do to
▶ 2:18:26Mommy, you okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:27You okay?
▶ 2:18:29You okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:30This is what these terrorists do to
▶ 2:18:32Mommy, you okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:34You okay?
▶ 2:18:35You okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:37This is what these terrorists do to
▶ 2:18:39Mommy, you okay, mama? You okay? You okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:43This is what these terrorists do to
▶ 2:18:46Mommy, you okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:47You okay? You okay, mama?
▶ 2:18:51Thank you, Mr. Holster. Now that you're of the tear gas being used against children, do you think any officers or agents should face disciplinary actions because of decisions like that now that you're aware? You weren't aware before, now you're aware. So I'm not aware of what that situation was. I can say that any any uh allegations of misuse of force are investigated thoroughly.
▶ 2:19:17So you're both coming here today through the leadership of CBP and you don't know, you can't answer whether a single officer has faced any disciplinary action as a result of these 79 times chemical munitions have been used against children. You don't know. Can either of you tell me what CBP's policy is with respect to chemical munitions being used against small children?
▶ 2:19:48The written policy? Whichever one of you wants to address it.
▶ 2:19:54It should be avoided. Mhm. CBP's policy says officers quote should not use pepper spray or quote less lethal chemical munitions against small children. Yet they continue to do and they face no repercussions.
▶ 2:20:15can you commit to me to go back find out whether a single CBP agent officer personnel has faced any disciplinary action as a result of using tear gas and chemical munitions against children. Will you come back to me in the committee with that information?
▶ 2:20:33Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentle lady from Illinois, Miss Ramirez, for her five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:20:46Thank you, chairman. Watching that video is very difficult because that's my city and I know uh what the impact of a city that has been terrorized in the way that it has through Midway Blitz feels like. People are still dealing with the impact. Look, whether it's on the border or in the city of Chicago, for DHS, the threat isn't bound to a destination. Be frank, for authoritarians, threat will always be a demographic.
▶ 2:21:15You saw that demographic up there. So, this hearing to me isn't really about threats of the northern border. Today's hearing is yet another attempt for my colleagues to use defending our national security in order to define a public enemy. Immigrants, children, criminalize, scapegoat, and dehumanize them. So fear and distrust surveil and violate our rights and liberties and then detain and brag about deporting families.
▶ 2:21:41When they say threats at the border, national security and terrorist, we know why these words are specifically being used, they were used in Minnesota when two US citizens were killed. It's been more than a year and I continue to watch parents in my district separated from their high school age children with cancer. Not once, twice. Constituents with protections like DACA and U visa applicants illegally detained.
▶ 2:22:10Eighth graders with autism in my district, held in dilly for months, told at the detention center that if he ever wants to see his mom again, she should go and turn herself in. and they'd go together to Colombia and constituents, as you just heard from my colleague, pepper sprayed outside of schools and in that case outside of a Walmart. All in the name of security. Well, let's be honest. None of this protects our communities. None of this makes us safe.
▶ 2:22:38If in fact does anything, it actually creates fear all over the country. This administration has demonstrated it will use our hardearned tax dollars to terrorize our communities to fund violations of our rights and hand out subsidies to the ultra-wealthy and corporations that are profiting from the suffering of our constituents.
▶ 2:22:58Trump, Miller, Homeman, they're willing to weaponize the government against its own people to ensure that anyone who gets in their way, including that child, ends up shot, pepper-sprayed, detained, deported, or dead. But let me be frank. We're going to continue to bring this up in every single committee because we have to hold them accountable. Mr. Holtzer, we know that nearly 3,800 immigrants were detained in the Chicago area during the terror of Operation Medway Blitz.
▶ 2:23:28Nearly 2,500 people were deported, including 162 children. The New York Times reported that on average 1,800 arrests are still happening right now per month in Chicago. Local reports suggest that there have been 39 abductions in Chicagoland between June 22nd and June 28. My question to you, Mr. Holtzer, is how many CBP officers assisted ICE during Operation Midway
▶ 2:23:59I don't have the exact number in in front of me, but we certainly could take that back to I'll get that for you.
▶ 2:24:03Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll put that on the record. You'll bring that back. Um, let me ask a followup so that we have it on the record as well. How many CBP officers are assisting ICE in Chicago now? Do you have that number?
▶ 2:24:16Uh, none, ma'am.
▶ 2:24:18Incredibly important to have that information as soon as possible.
▶ 2:24:21Yes, ma'am.
▶ 2:24:21Mr. Schneider. 5 days before Marimar Martinez was shot five times by border patrol agent Charles Exum, CBP's open- source intelligence team tagged her as a threat based on a social media post, disseminated her photo and information to all of the Midway Blitz personnel, and used DHS databases to confirm her identity. My question to you, Mr.
▶ 2:24:42Schneider is, was the CBP open source intelligence team systematically monitoring social media accounts of people participating in protests during Midway Blitz? Yes or no?
▶ 2:24:54Ma'am, that was a DHSled operation by the former secretary. I I was not involved in that operation.
▶ 2:25:00But you work for DHS.
▶ 2:25:02It was not in the command and control of the US Border Patrol. I have no information on that specific incident. So you also don't know how many individuals were tagged as threats like Marimar Martinez.
▶ 2:25:14Can you repeat the question? I can hear.
▶ 2:25:15The second part of that was how many individuals in addition to Marimar were tagged as threats like Marimar Martinez. You're saying you don't have that because I was with the previous secretary, but DHS is still DHS and whether it was one secretary or the other, you were still working for DHS under the previous secretary. Correct. If you're talking specifically about the the operation in Chicago last year, that was a DHSled operation. I had no involvement. The US Border Patrol had no involvement other than temporary assigned agents to that.
▶ 2:25:46including Bavino, correct?
▶ 2:25:48Uh yes, former retired Chief Bo was
▶ 2:25:50correct. But he was there under DHS and you all work for DHS. Look, ju just to wrap up, we don't get answers, and that's part of the problem here. And so I do hope that everything that's on the record in terms of follow-up, we do in fact get. and I know that uh we're going to work with the chairman to ensure that happens and our ranking members. With that, I'll yield back.
▶ 2:26:09The gentle lady yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy, for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:26:15Thank you, chairman. As the only member of this committee located directly on the northern border and the co-chair of the bipartisan northern border caucus, it's good to be here today to discuss challenges specific to my community of Buffalo, New York, and across the northern border. My district alone encompasses miles of maritime and land border with Canada.
▶ 2:26:35So, I understand firsthand the importance of both strengthening partnerships with Canadian law enforcement and ensuring this administration's extreme immigration enforcement agenda does not harm the seamless trade and travel that has always been so critical to Western New York and our nation's prosperity. This symbiotic relationship is extraordinarily important.
▶ 2:26:56Every single day, $116 million in merchandise goes across the Western New York border and billions of dollars of merchandise flows across the northern border expanse. So, we stand to lose when this administration diverts resources, harms diplomatic relationships with Canada, stifles lawful trade, and surg surges agents into Western New York to terrorize our communities.
▶ 2:27:24Unfortunately, Buffalo has experienced all of these challenges because of misguided priorities at the White House. Tomorrow is July 1st, Canadian Independence Day, a time of year when Western New Yorkers travel to Canada to visit family and vacation and vice versa. Yet booths at US ports of entry in the north are empty in part because this administration has diverted hundreds of CBP officers to conduct interior immigration enforcement. So Mr.
▶ 2:27:54Holtzer, since January 2025, how many CBP officers who staff Buffalo sector ports of entry have been diverted away from their jobs to conduct immigration enforcement work? Sir, I don't have the breakdown in in front of me of how many from each location, but as of May, uh we are no longer supporting any interior
▶ 2:28:16Can you give a followup uh in writing,
▶ 2:28:20Absolutely, sir.
▶ 2:28:21Okay. Also, um, according to ICE disclosures obtained by Kato Institute, over 3,000 CBP OFO personnel were diverted from assisting lawful trade and travel to helping ICE with enforcement back in August of 2025. So, I'd like to see how those numbers add up to 20 August of 25 and then how they've changed if at all since.
▶ 2:28:4510 that number is very, very high. I can tell you that. And so what happens when northern border ports of entry lack officers to facilitate lawful trade and travel and what's the impact on communities and small businesses? Mr. Holtzer,
▶ 2:29:00we don't particularly track the the impact of the communities. We track that typically in in a wait time, sir. And and we've maintained solid weight times across the northern and southern borders as well as our airports in
▶ 2:29:11time. Thank you. I can tell you communities like mine suffer and others across the northern border particularly and specifically directly on the border. There are tens of thousands of jobs. There are uh bational residents. There are communities that depend upon this crossber commerce and we have heard of wait times backed up as I'm sure you know this information as long as two hours plus that just stifles trade.
▶ 2:29:38It stifles the economy on both sides of the border and certainly it impacts our economy here in the United States abroad. Um so I would I would just ask for that in writing specifically how th those officers have been pulled and where they've been pulled when and the impact on the northern border um access. Uh next Mr. Schneider earlier this month when Secretary Mullen appeared before this committee.
▶ 2:30:07I asked him if the name Nula Amin Shaam meant anything to him. Sadly sadly until I reminded him of the preventable tragedy. It did not. Are you familiar with this case,
▶ 2:30:20sir? If you were referring to the case where the the subject assaulted two Buffalo police officers. Yes, I'm
▶ 2:30:25Thank you. For those who are unfamiliar, Mr. Shasha Alama Rahinga refugee was found dead on the streets of Buffalo on February 24th, 2026 after being released by US Border Patrol custody just days before. His family wasn't informed of his release, nor was his attorney. His death has since been ruled a homicide, a tragedy that shook our community, our state, our nation, the global community. It's not the first instance of a detainee passing away following release from DHS.
▶ 2:30:56Um, there have been bone chilling similarities to Naru Lamin Shaalam's case. Mr. Schneider, is there a particular reason why it's not current policy for US Border Patrol to notify family members or an attorney when someone's released from custody?
▶ 2:31:11Yes, sir. I'm very familiar with that case and I can tell you that that subject was in our custody for roughly 2 hours and 45 minutes. Uh, we communicated with him well through language services. He requested once we determined that he was in fact he had legal status u we uh asked him if we he would we would if he would like us to take us to his home and he requested to be go to a coffee shop and be dropped off at a Tim Hortons that was open.
▶ 2:31:35There is an open investigation happening within uh your office?
▶ 2:31:40Yes sir. And I'm confident that uh it'll it'll uh it'll bring the facts forward. It's my understanding, chairman, that uh with this open case, uh I've heard a lot of information here from you today, Mr. Schneider, that is uh not accurate. So, we will wait to hear the the the the case facts. Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 2:32:02Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, for his five minutes of
▶ 2:32:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the ranking members and associate myself with the comments of the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Thompson, and have a question that I would ask Mr. Croll about. Uh, Mr. Croll, does HSI's participation in joint task force like the joint terrorism task force fall under your purview, your jurisdiction?
▶ 2:32:37Uh, that would fall under domestic operations. International Security Division. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:32:41Okay. Thank you. And um staff has been informed that HSI supporting the FBI's inter agency anti-government violent extremism task force. Um and I would ask you sir, under what authority is HSI supporting this task force that is focused on purely domestic extremist Uh sir, we follow national security presidential memor memorandum 7 uh and
▶ 2:33:11it's the joint mission center that is uh that we are collocated with the FBI u related to that
▶ 2:33:18and uh will the [clears throat] findings be made available to members of the committee?
▶ 2:33:27I'm sorry sir. What findings would those
▶ 2:33:28If you're investigating I assume that at some point you'll have some conclusions. The focus of of NSPM7 is to identify those that are riers, agitators, those that are Antifa based and and are significant threats.
▶ 2:33:43U do do you consider Antifa an
▶ 2:33:48I do.
▶ 2:33:49Not an idea.
▶ 2:33:51And the the organization has a head, I take it.
▶ 2:33:57I'm sorry.
▶ 2:33:57The organization has a head, I take it. There's someone who heads Antifa. Uh
▶ 2:34:00not that I'm aware of. It has a governing body.
▶ 2:34:11I don't have that information, sir.
▶ 2:34:15All right. Well, let's go to something else. Um, [clears throat] Mrs. Snyder, um, do you, uh, have a code of ethics? The people that work with you, the members of your organization, is there a code of ethics? Absolutely sir. We have our core values, agency core values. US Border Patrol has uh honor first.
▶ 2:34:38Honor first. And uh does this code of ethics allow the persons who are engaged in various activities to um boast about the things that they do? Do they talk in the locker room about how they've hurt people and uh they've done some harm to people? Is that a part of the code? Would the code allow that?
▶ 2:35:03I'm not aware of any any of that uh that that you're sharing, sir.
▶ 2:35:07But if if it occurs, would it be in breach of your code of ethics?
▶ 2:35:13I don't have an opinion on that, sir.
▶ 2:35:15You don't have an opinion as to what breaches your code of ethics?
▶ 2:35:19Well, I'm not not really understanding your question. You're talking about people talking about in a locker room.
▶ 2:35:24If someone if someone in the locker room talks Sure. If someone talks about how he shot someone and um and brags about how five shots, five holes became more than five, would that would that be in breach of your code of ethics?
▶ 2:35:41But I will say if that in fact did happen, there is a process in place and and that will be reported um and then it would be properly investigated. If in fact that is true,
▶ 2:35:50would that uh investigation uh yield results that would be made known to members of the committee? I believe so. I believe uh the Office of Professional Responsibility in a in a situation like that that would that would be public.
▶ 2:36:04Well, I'm sure you read the newspapers and you're aware of what happened to Miss Martinez.
▶ 2:36:10I I know a little bit about it, sir.
▶ 2:36:12Yeah. Well, and and you know that uh she was shot.
▶ 2:36:17Yeah. Again, as I stated earlier, that was a DHSled operation, so I'm not privy to any of the detailed information of the investigation. I understand you're not privy to those details, but based upon your intelligence and your reading, you know that she was shot.
▶ 2:36:32And based on what I saw on the on on the open source media?
▶ 2:36:36Yes. Okay. Well, that's good enough. You do you generally uh accept some of what you see on the open source media is correct and true?
▶ 2:36:44Uh no, not at all, sir.
▶ 2:36:46Not nothing you see on open source. Well, when they commend you for the great things that you've done, you [laughter] you uh discount that, I take
▶ 2:36:59I I I don't know about that, sir.
▶ 2:37:01I see. Only the good things. Well, listen, here's my point. Uh, I would like to know what happened to the officer who boasted to other officers about how he shot an unarmed citizen and noted that he was able to shoot her x number of times and get more holes than he actually shot. See, seems like it's five and seven. That's a question. But, uh, I'd like to know what happened. Can you help me and get me some information on that?
▶ 2:37:30I don't have that information, but that's still under investigation by the Office of Professional Responsibility, but I'd be happy to uh uh you know, at the conclusion of their investigation uh work with the committee to share that.
▶ 2:37:41I would I would have you do so. That would be of benefit. Thank you. I yield
▶ 2:37:46Gentleman yields back. At this time, the time for questioning has expired. uh to our witnesses on behalf of myself and the ranking member uh we again want to thank you for participate for participating in this hearing. Uh the members of the committee may have additional questions uh for the witnesses and we would ask the witnesses to respond uh to these questions in writing pursuant to committee rule 7E.
▶ 2:38:13Uh the hearing record will be held open for 10 days. Anything, Mr. Ranking?
▶ 2:38:18Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I'd like unanimous consent to insert into the record some of these articles.
▶ 2:38:23Uh without objection, the articles will be submitted for the record.
▶ 2:38:26First first one, Sister Ley, a Texas nun taken by ICE while walking to Sunday
▶ 2:38:33Without objection.
▶ 2:38:34New York Times article shows the Department of Homeland Security's efforts to combat crimes have actually weakened under pressure to arrest more immigrants. Without objection,
▶ 2:38:46Guardian, which tells a story of a US citizen who was aggressively questioned by ICE, even after showing proof of
▶ 2:38:53Without objection,
▶ 2:38:54Brookings Institute, which shows that ICE new surveillance techniques are raising concerns about privacy.
▶ 2:39:01Without objection, all four documents will be entered into the record.
▶ 2:39:04Thank you.
▶ 2:39:05Uh seeing nothing further, then without objection, the committee stands