▶ 0:05:37The committee will come to order. Welcome and thank you for joining today's hearing. We've got it entitled reviewing partnerships to enhance management of the national forest system. After some brief opening remarks, members will receive testimony today from our witnesses, and then the hearing will be open to questions, uh, in consultation with the ranking member. And pursuant to rule 11 e, I want to make members of the subcommittee aware that other members of the full committee may join us today.
▶ 0:06:07So let me begin with my opening statement. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this forestry and horticulture subcommittee hearing entitled reviewing partnerships to enhance management of the national forest system. This morning, we will hear from an expert panel of stakeholders on various issues before the national forest system and will be reviewing how partners work with and support the forest service.
▶ 0:06:37These partnerships help to support active forest management, expand recreational opportunities and create and maintain forest products and jobs, including those of essential community personnel like law enforcement, and how regulations from the top down impact their work day to day.
▶ 0:07:00Our national forests have been undermanaged for decades, and because of that, we are seeing a corresponding decline in forest health and resiliency. Millions of acres need better management to improve forest health, address invasive species, and ramp up much needed fuels reduction activities to decrease the threat of catastrophic wildfires.
▶ 0:07:24Over the past decade, we have seen some of the worst wildfires on record, resulting in millions of acres of burned forests, destroyed homes and property, and unfortunately, in some cases, lost lives.
▶ 0:07:39Since wildfires are happening beyond the hottest and driest months of the year, I'm not sure that we are any longer able to, uh, label this as a fire season, but rather a fire year. I'm seeing the impact of these nearly every day in my district. Most of these disasters are preventable, and we need to be doing more to support important management work in our forests.
▶ 0:08:10The forest service is trying to do just that by identifying more than 100 million acres of national forest land for treatment in the coming years. As you know, this will be no easy task given the acreage and the scale.
▶ 0:08:24The agency has long relied on partners to help carry out this important work through partnership agreements such as good neighbor authority, stewardship contracts, memoranda of understanding, and other existing authorities and programs. This committee has long supported these partnerships. The 2026 farm bill, which passed on the house floor just last month, continues this effort and provides additional improvements.
▶ 0:08:53It also reauthorizes the landscape, scale, collaborative forest landscape and the joint chiefs landscape restoration partnership programs. Additionally, it includes authorizations for hazardous fuel reduction, cross-boundary, wildfire mitigation, insect infestations and diseases, and expands several existing categorical exclusions to help encourage active management.
▶ 0:09:24Now, support for new markets of for forest products is also included in the wood innovation grants program, and a new biochar application demonstration project. We also prioritize forest products infrastructure by authorizing the timber production expansion program. All these are just a few of the provisions in the forestry title, and I'm glad to see the senate has started their work.
▶ 0:09:50Our nation's farmers, ranchers and foresters need a new and modernized farm bill and we. We must deliver. With that, I'm looking forward to hearing from our witnesses today about how they work with the agency and support. Support the critical management of the national forest system. And this is probably most important. Recommendations for improvement. So thank you to all of you for appearing with us today.
▶ 0:10:18Before, um, before we get into all of this, I just want to take a moment now to acknowledge something that's kind of personal for all of us. This is our first subcommittee hearing since we lost, tragically, our good friend, Mr. doug lamalfa. Uh, I think I can speak for everybody that doug has sorely missed.
▶ 0:10:44He he was a true champion of our national forests and, and of our rural communities. He was a fellow farmer. So we had a lot in common. Uh, I'd also like to recognize, even though he's not here. Oh, he is here. Our newest member of the committee, Mr. david valadao from california. Uh, so welcome, david. Yeah. So with that again, thank you all for being here.
▶ 0:11:13I'd like to welcome the distinguished ranking member, the my friend, the gentlelady from the great state of oregon, miss salinas, for any opening opening remarks that she might like to share. >> oh, thank you, chairman newhouse, and welcome, congressman valadao. And I did notice at the beginning of the hearing, my former chairman had a very large gavel that he would strike down. And I thought about him as you opened up this committee. And I too am. Yeah.
▶ 0:11:42>> I've got it at the ready here. >> we will all sorely miss him. Well, thank you for joining us today. And thank you to our witnesses for making the trip to discuss this timely topic. This hearing is happening against the backdrop of what experts warn will be one of the worst wildfire seasons in recent memory. From increased temperatures to a historically low snowpack and extreme drought conditions, we're facing a perfect storm this year for an especially devastating wildfire season.
▶ 0:12:07My home state of oregon, as many of you know, is nearly 50% forested and has 30 million acres of some of the world's most productive forests. Our forests are at risk, but I am hopeful today's hearing will prepare the subcommittee to protect our forests, communities and infrastructure. Despite the threat wildfires posed to oregon and much of the west, this administration is taking steps that make us all less safe.
▶ 0:12:32Specifically, the reorganization of the forest service and the administration's consolidation of wildfire response under the department of interior are causing chaos in our communities and are creating more questions than answers about the future of forest management. These changes come at what I consider a very dangerous time, right as wildfire season is taking hold with 2.7 million acres already burned nationwide this year, exceeding the ten year average for both fires and acres burned to date.
▶ 0:13:01On top of the administration's changes to the forest service, their work, or lack thereof, to reduce hazardous fuels in our forests, is particularly alarming. From 2024 to 2025, the forest service treated roughly 25% fewer acres of hazardous fuels, and in oregon, treatments were down 47% in that period. Treating hazardous fuels must be the absolute top priority.
▶ 0:13:27The agency of forest that is vulnerable to wildfire cannot deliver the same ecosystem benefits as a treated forest. And I'm talking about benefits like recreation opportunities, timber production, clean water, wildlife habitat, and carbon sequestration. The steep decline in hazardous fuels work since 2025, coupled with our changing climate, will only lead us to one outcome catastrophic wildfires and decimating communities.
▶ 0:13:52To make things worse, the trump administration's fiscal year 27 budget included an approximate 43% cut to the forest service budget, and that's if we do not include the loss of funding. As part of the proposal to move wildfire operations from forest service to the department of interior, this budget proposal eliminates state, private and tribal forestry, eliminates forest and rangeland research, and cuts important programs like the collaborative forest landscape restoration program
▶ 0:14:23That meaningfully improve the health and resilience of our forests. At the same time, the trump administration is calling for states and partners to take on more of the burden in managing our forests. They are cutting all support for this work. The collapse in hazardous fuels acres is just one obvious symptom of this misguided approach. This is not the time for removing opportunities for collaboration, active forest management and real progress.
▶ 0:14:51What we need is a path to move forward, to work together and to invest in active forest management. We know what effective forest management looks like. We need prescribed fires, hazardous fuel reduction, targeted thinning and timber harvests, and other practices that reduce wildfire risk to communities and restore balance to our forests.
▶ 0:15:11After decades of overly aggressive fire suppression, we can prevent and combat wildfires without irreparably damaging the habitat and ecosystems we rely on to survive or harming the private and industrial forests intended for harvest. Partnerships are imperative to the success of active forest management. Tribes, states, local governments, universities and private landowners all bring unique tools and expertise.
▶ 0:15:39Programs like good neighbor authority, service first agreements, and shared stewardship show what's possible when we do work together. Partnerships are the backbone of the national forest system, and they are necessary to complete the work on the ground that keeps our forests productive, healthy and safe for the public. They are even more important right now considering these catastrophic changes the trump administration is making.
▶ 0:16:02This subcommittee has a responsibility to ensure the forest service can be effective, and we must work alongside one another to expand collaborative forest management, reinforce those partnerships between all who care for our forests, and keep our focus squarely on protecting people, communities, drinking water sources and ecosystems.
▶ 0:16:23I am eager to hear from our witnesses and to work together to chart a path forward that will help us ensure our nation's forests are managed in a way that keeps them productive, resilient, and healthy. Thank you all. >> thank you. Thank you very much. We're delighted today to have the chairman of the full committee, Mr. g.t. Thompson, from the great state of pennsylvania. So now I recognize chairman thompson for any opening comments you'd like to to make. >> thank you chairman.
▶ 0:16:51Good morning, everyone, and I want to thank chairman newhouse and ranking member salinas for holding the subcommittee hearing today on the importance of partnerships for the health of our nation's forests. Um, I'd like to add my thoughts to the chairman, uh, taking a moment to recognize our great friend, doug lamalfa. Doug certainly would have many thoughts and insights into today's discussion. He's a great friend, chairman, and, and he's missed with that.
▶ 0:17:17Also, I'd like to acknowledge chairman newhouse as a new subcommittee chair. And representative valadao is a new member of both the full committee and this subcommittee. As for today's hearing, partnerships with forest with forest service greatly benefit pennsylvania's 15th district by directly supporting forest health, bolstering the forest products industry, expanding recreational opportunities on public lands, and similar impacts that are felt in areas near forest service in 40
▶ 0:17:48Different states. Uh, to me, it's common sense that the current forest health crisis and the issues facing our forest products industry share a common solution. And that's increasing active management and sustainable timber harvest levels to benefit both ecological health and rural communities. Uh, while this committee has continued to support the forest service through partnerships, much more can be done, starting with swift passage of a new farm bill.
▶ 0:18:17I'm proud to say that we have worked diligently over the last few years to ensure the farm, food and national security act has a robust forestry title that will broaden and strengthen the forest service toolbox for active forest management, including enhancements to authorities that allow them to engage in critical partnerships with organizations like those that we have sitting before us today.
▶ 0:18:40These improvements have become increasingly important in recent years as wildfires and forest health crisis in this country has continued. And this is why the time to act is now. I'm proud of the work that the house committee on agriculture has done over the last several years, and I'm proud of the bipartisan vote that our farm bill recently received on the floor of the house.
▶ 0:19:03With the release of text this week, I strongly encourage the senate to act on a new farm bill as soon as possible, as long overdue and millions of people around this country depend on its passage for certainty and a wide variety of lines of work. And so thank you, Mr. chairman, and I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. thompson.
▶ 0:19:22If miss craig from minnesota does come, we would be happy to recognize her for any opening comments, and I would request that other members submit their opening statements for the record. So the witnesses may begin their testimony and ensure that we have ample time for questions. So our first witness today is Mr. ned coe. He's the supervisor of modoc county, california. So welcome, Mr. coe.
▶ 0:19:50Our next witness is Mr. travis joseph. He's the president and ceo of the american forest research resource council and no stranger to washington, dc. So welcome. Our third witness today is Mr. tracy glover, who is the sheriff of king county, utah. So welcome, Mr. glover. And next, I would yield to my ranking member to introduce our next witness, miss salinas. >> uh, thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:20:20Um, witness intro. Thank you. I'm pleased to welcome molly whitney, executive director of cascade forest conservancy, who we will hear from today. In that role, she oversees the conservancy's work with local stakeholders to advocate for sustainable land management and participates in two forest collaboratives in the gifford pinchot national forest that directly participate, participation, participate in project planning with the forest service, as well as other tribes, timber interests
▶ 0:20:50And other stakeholders. Miss whitney holds a bachelor's degree in environmental science with a focus in water from linfield college, which is in my district. She brings a diverse background in conservation stemming from her deep appreciation for the pacific northwest landscape and her desire to protect, sustain and restore its important ecosystems. Prior to her current role with cascade forest conservancy. Thank you miss. Miss whitney served as development director at water watch of oregon. Previously excuse me.
▶ 0:21:19Previously, she was program manager of the national fish and wildlife foundation's columbia basin water transaction program. She also served on the board of the tualatin riverkeepers and currently serves on the board of mount saint helens institute. As a native oregonian, miss whitney has a lifelong relationship with the cascades and brings a real enthusiasm for its protection and restoration. I am eager to hear from her today to understand the perspective she will bring to this subcommittee. Miss whitney, thank you for joining us today. I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 0:21:49And I just want to again express my thanks to all of you, all of the witnesses for joining us today. So we'll now proceed. Proceed to the most important part of the hearing your testimony, you'll each get five minutes. The timer is right there in front of you. Uh, it will count down to zero, at which point your time has expired. So, uh, Mr. coe, please begin. Thank you, chair newhouse.
▶ 0:22:14>> and and thank you for the kind comments in regards to the passing of, of my previous congressman, congressman lamafa and close friend of of over three decades. Good morning, chair newhouse and ranking member salinas and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the national association of counties or naco. My name is ned coe.
▶ 0:22:39I serve on the modoc county board of supervisors, and I am second vice president of the naco's western interstate region. Modoc county is the third least populated county in california, with 70 plus percent being federally owned. National forest management is not an abstract issue for us. It directly affects our roads, schools, emergency services and our local economy.
▶ 0:23:08I'm here today to share what genuine federal county partnership looks like in practice. That partnership operates on three levels counties as fiscal partners, as operational partners, and as intergovernmental partners. In counties like mine, where so much of the land is federally owned and therefore not taxable, programs like secure rural schools are not optional. They are essential.
▶ 0:23:38Secure rural schools help support county roads, schools and local capacity. That makes partnership with the federal forest service possible in the first place. Title two of srs is a especially important because it supports resource advisory committees or rax in modoc county.
▶ 0:24:00Our rac brings together county government, forest service ranchers, environmental interests and other local stakeholders to identify and recommend projects that improve forest health and meet local needs that prop. Through that process, we have supported projects like stock water wells, fuels reduction, habitat restoration.
▶ 0:24:21These projects benefit livestock operations, improve, improve emergency fire suppression capacity, and strengthen the long term resilience of the forest. But none of this happens without stable funding. Counties cannot plan, hire or build durable partnerships one year at a time.
▶ 0:24:44Naco urges congress to enact a long term or permanent reauthorization of secure rural schools before the program lapses. Again. Stable funding ensures counties as operational partners. An example of of what this looks like in modoc county.
▶ 0:25:04Um is the devil's horse colt challenge, and I ask you to refer to my written comments on more details on, on this. But most importantly, modoc shared stewardship program. Federal staffing vacancies are one of the biggest barriers of effective forest management in the west.
▶ 0:25:30And we built a solution to this through this program. University of california cooperative extension recruits, trains, short term employees. The modoc county farm bureau serves as the employer of record. The forest service then gains qualified workers who are immediately able to help get work done on the ground. This program has been operational in the county for over five years now.
▶ 0:25:59In the most recent field season, 43 workers logged more than 1800 hours. They performed more than 700 miles of trail road maintenance, completing grazing allotment surveys, supported fuels and vegetation, worked help with timber sale, production preparation, conducted hydrologic, archeological and botany.
▶ 0:26:27Wildlife surveys, supported nepa work, maintained campgrounds and assisted in public education programs. The third level is partnership with formal standing in federal planning and decision making modoc county.
▶ 0:26:45We have a standing coordination committee with the modoc national forest each year to each month, two members of the board of supervisors, our natural resources advisor and our farm advisor meet directly with forest leadership. These meetings help ensure local input shapes. Federal decisions on forest health, wildfire reduction, grazing roads and water infrastructure.
▶ 0:27:11Naco urges congress three things reauthorize secure rural schools, support shared stewardship programs, and encourage forest service to establish regular coordination structures with county governments. Please refer to my written testimony for additional comments, and I would entertain questions at the appropriate time. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. cole. Appreciate that very much.
▶ 0:27:38Um, next, I recognize Mr. glover. You may begin when you're ready. Thank you. >> thank you, chairman newhouse, ranking member salinas and members of the committee. My name is tracy glover. I'm the sheriff in kane county, utah, the president of the utah sheriffs association, as well as the president of the western state sheriffs association, who I represent here today. Uh, our association, western states, covers 19 western states and over 1100 sheriffs. As you know, the U.S.
▶ 0:28:07Forest service manages about 200 million acres of land in national forests that are truly a national treasure. These lands deserve resource protection and sound management. America's sheriffs invest time and treasure every day to support that. National national forest management there is ample evidence that sheriffs are all in as viable partners in this important work. We have great respect for the U.S.
▶ 0:28:34Forest service law enforcement officers that we work alongside every single day in the field, and we commend them for their work at the management level. However, our relationship is fracturing. I'm here today to ask congress, through this committee, to help sheriffs move forward and recover these relationships, returning to a level of mutual respect, I want to touch on three quick things to that point.
▶ 0:28:58First, criminal jurisdiction and police power in our country, states and therefore local subdivisions hold the authority to police the people. While sometimes confusing, criminal legislative jurisdiction is reserved to state and local governments. As the only elected law enforcement branch within any form of government, sheriffs are often in the position of holding the line on these matters.
▶ 0:29:22While we appreciate the interest of limited federal law enforcement jurisdiction by congress, agencies within the executive branch have generally pushed back and with some success, passed rules and regulations that are sort of a workaround to the principles of limited jurisdiction. We are here today to ask this committee to work with sheriffs to arrive at a solution to one such issue the criminal prohibitions rule. A little bit of background.
▶ 0:29:50In 2011, the forest service law enforcement folks reached out to our association with their intent to institute this criminal prohibitions rule. Uh, it would dramatically increase the, uh, the, the stance of federal law enforcement and their, their authority on federal law for, on federal national forests. After some difficult discussions, negotiations and meetings, we, we pushed back and the idea was shelved.
▶ 0:30:17Fast forward in 2024, a slightly watered down version of the rule was put forward and on the federal register. This time, sheriffs were not given any significant notice. Uh. Our association and others participated by providing public comment on the federal register. And while the rule disproportionately affects sheriffs, we were not afforded any appropriate level of coordination.
▶ 0:30:41After providing public comment asking for specific changes to be made, the final rule was adopted and published on december 26th of 2024, with no significant modifications. At that time, we met with the us forest service administrators, who appeared at least so far, to not have any interest in modifying the rule.
▶ 0:31:04A cra was filed by congresswoman celeste maloy, but with the difficult timing of a government shutdown, it ended up timing out without action. Uh. Representative malloy then filed h.r. 6802 in this congress, which is active and, I believe, assigned to this committee and would simply require that the criminal prohibitions rule would not have any force or effect. The primary reason I'm here today on behalf of american sheriffs, is to ask this committee to advance h.r. 6802 as a priority bill.
▶ 0:31:33Help sheriffs hold an important baseline of local jurisdiction and find a better path forward. We are committed to working together with the agency to come to a more appropriate solution. If we get the chance. Uh, shifting gears, I want to touch just briefly on a different program called the cooperative law enforcement agreement program. As many of you know, sheriffs across the country, uh, provide law enforcement services on our national forests under cooperative law enforcement agreements.
▶ 0:32:02A little context, in 1985, the program was funded at about 7.5 million nationwide. And in 1993 that amount dropped to 5 million. Today, roughly 41 years later, the funding remains at $5 million. During that time frame, you can imagine sheriffs have dealt with marked cost increases in our operations.
▶ 0:32:25Uh, for example, I looked at the social security cost of living index and cost of living adjustments have increased by 138% in that same time frame, the cost of a of a ford f-150 truck in 1985 was about $15,000. Today, it's about 70,000 to get it fully equipped, uh, with us forest service staffing shortages and special assignments, fire details, etc.
▶ 0:32:53Sheriffs are being asked to do more and more on national forests, which we embrace to a degree. We respectfully ask that this committee review the program and bring it up to a 2026 funding standard. And with that, I appreciate your time, and I look forward to answering any questions. >> thank you, Mr. sheriff. Mr. joseph, you may begin when you're ready. >> chairman newhouse, ranking member, salinas, members of the committee. Good morning and thank you for this opportunity. My name is travis joseph.
▶ 0:33:22I'm the president and ceo of the american forest resource council. We have the privilege of representing the forest products sector. Many of the mills, the loggers, the truck drivers, the contractors and the supply chains that actively manage and steward our national forests that belong to all americans. We are critical partners of the forest service, and we have been, since the agency's founding 120 years ago. We want to be partners to help manage national forests for another 120 years, our members.
▶ 0:33:50By federal timber on the most regulated lands on planet earth, our national forests. We harvest using the best science and the most advanced forest practices in the world. We bring federal timber to local mills, and we make all kinds of wood products that are essential to society, from housing and construction, to paper and packaging, to medicine and food and renewable energy and fuel. That's just the start. We do so much more. Our members grow and plant millions of seedlings on private and federal lands.
▶ 0:34:18We do wildfire detection and suppression. We do wildfire prevention work. We do fish and wildlife, habitat restoration work trail and construction, road repair and maintenance. Across this country. The forest products sector employs tens of thousands of certified foresters, engineers, scientists, welders, mechanics, heavy equipment operators, it professionals, accountants, lawyers and drone pilots, just to name a few.
▶ 0:34:44We care deeply about our health and the resiliency of our national forests, the plight of our communities and our businesses are intertwined with the plight of our federal forests. It's where we hike. It's where we camp. It's where we hunt. It's where we fish. It's where we work. And as those who work in and near our national forests every day, we can tell you that the scale of our federal forest and health crisis is staggering.
▶ 0:35:09It's now estimated that between 80 and 100 million acres of national forests are at high risk of catastrophic wildfire disease and insect infestations. We stand at a critical moment. The status quo is not working, and it's putting these public forests in all their invaluable benefits to society at risk. It's a threat to countless rural communities, to public health, to public safety, to our neighbors and to our businesses. We can and we must solve this. And we can.
▶ 0:35:38Together, the forest products industry, states, counties, tribes, and other partners. We have the expertise, we have the capacity, we have the infrastructure. We have the people. We have the will. We're problem solvers. We share common interests, managing our national forests and taking care of our communities. We have two pictures in front of you. The one right now is up on the screen. You have two pictures in your packets. This first one here is from the archie creek fire in oregon. This forest is dead and the forest stands as far as you can see from the ridge top are dead.
▶ 0:36:10I took this picture myself two weeks ago. That fire occurred six years ago. It's a shocking sight to see in person. That area will likely never regenerate naturally, because the fire burns so hot. And that's what that forest stand will look like in the future. For your kids and your grandkids and your great grandkids. This is not environmentalism. This is not good stewardship. It's neglect. And it's wrong.
▶ 0:36:35That's one picture of one fire during one year on one national forest. And I'm sharing it with you because I want you to see where the status quo of federal forest management is taking us. Similar environmental catastrophes like this exist on national forests in all western states. The second picture is a picture of a shaded fuel break in northern california along a major highway corridor.
▶ 0:36:59And this is what a successful partnership looks like in this case, a neighboring private forest landowner, sierra pacific industries. Sbi worked with the forest service, cal fire firefighters and experts and partners on the ground to create defensible space and strategic locations to help prevent the kinds of wildfires that have wiped out entire forests and communities in california. I took this picture last week. This is important work. It's proactive. It's intentional.
▶ 0:37:26It can save property and infrastructure, taxpayer dollars, and most importantly, it can help save communities and lives. That's one picture, a one partnership on one at risk landscape, on one national forest. And I'm sharing it because it represents what's possible. One forest products company or other forest products company and members of afrcc who are doing amazing work like this all over the west. We need to do more and we need to do it faster.
▶ 0:37:52If the forest service was able to fully leverage the assets and expertise of all of its partners, the potential is limitless. That's the exciting part. And that's also where congress comes in, right? We're not oblivious to all the challenges that are in front of the forest service right now. We're asking congress to zoom out to look at the current system of how we manage national forests. We need to rethink our approach. We need to ask important questions. What outcomes do we want from our national forest? Are we achieving those outcomes?
▶ 0:38:21If not, why and how do we align and modernize our approach, our laws and regulations to deal with 21st century challenges, to create new opportunities and new partnerships on national forests, created powerful relationships and solutions exist. Good forestry and good forest stewardship is not a partizan issue. Partnerships are essential.
▶ 0:38:44In fact, I would argue it's the only way that congress and the forest service can be able to deliver better environmental, social and economic outcomes for the american public. Count the forest products industry in. We're here. We're at the table. We want durable, bipartisan solutions. We want healthy forests and healthy communities. We're here to ask, how do we help you, congress, to build and grow partnerships into the future? Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. joseph. Miss whitney, please begin when you're ready.
▶ 0:39:14>> chairman newhouse, ranking member salinas and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to join you today. I'm molly whitney, the executive director of the cascade forest conservancy. For 40 years, my organization has worked to protect, sustain forest streams, wildlife, wildlife and the communities in southwest washington cascades. We do this through conservation, education, restoration and advocacy. Conservation ngos like the cascade forest conservancy provide oversight, accountability for actions impacting our public lands.
▶ 0:39:42In the past, that role has often put us at odds with the forest service and led to litigation. But today, we increasingly engage with the agency as a collaborative partner. We work closely with the forest service on forest management, watershed restoration and economic resilience. My organization is an active and founding member of two forest collaboratives that have improved forest management and community outcomes throughout our region, the south gifford pinchot collaborative and the pinchot partners.
▶ 0:40:09These forest collaboratives are stakeholder groups that provide feedback throughout the forest service project, planning to develop well-balanced, publicly supported projects and iron out conflicts with without slow, costly litigation. The cascade forest conservancy also partners with the forest service to implement restoration projects, including aquatic habitat restoration, beaver relocations, volunteer programs, and we support an initiative that connects local high school students to paid summer partnerships on national forest lands.
▶ 0:40:39Today, this partnership is being strained through a multitude of cutbacks due to uncertainty, organizational restructuring and staffing cuts that originate at the national level. Our forest service's ability to plan, collaborate and execute projects effectively is being critically compromised. On the gifford pinchot national forest, there are vacancies and essential positions for project planning and timber sale, administration and implementation.
▶ 0:41:03The interdisciplinary planning teams, which are vital to advancing projects with expert input, have decreased from 3 to 1 across the forest. As a result, the agency's capacity to move projects forward has declined even as production expectations increase. At the same time, we are concerned about the agency's growing resilience on categorical exclusions, emergency determinations and exemptions from environmental review requirements.
▶ 0:41:28These tools do have a role, but they are increasingly used as substitutes for comprehensive, transparent planning processes with public buy in. Environmental assessments and the nepa process provide meaningful opportunities for collaboration, public involvement and tribal consultation. This helps project planners identify problems early, strengthens project design, and reduces the likelihood of conflict.
▶ 0:41:52In the absence of these processes, litigation becomes the only tool we have to ensure that projects meet legal standards. Streamlining in specific solutions can be helpful, but shortcuts that sacrifice transparency and public involvement may actually hinder progress and increase our reliance on litigation, rather than on collaboration and public input. Sustaining our public lands requires ongoing public input, strong federal agencies and a reliable public investment.
▶ 0:42:20Recent shifts, a lack of clarity, and a lack of transparent dialog among stakeholders and agency staff have diminished public pathways for input. Forest collaboratives have always been useful, but they are now becoming even more essential as other public engagement avenues are limited. By creating a space open to the public for difficult conversations and nontraditional relationships, they promote a shared understanding among diverse stakeholders.
▶ 0:42:45They enhance project planning, and they help prevent conflicts before decisions are made. While collaboration does take time, it builds trust and it proves improves project outcomes and often prevents costly disputes, making the process actually more efficient. We encourage congress to support stable, long term investment in the forest service.
▶ 0:43:08This includes rebuilding agency capacity through sustainable, consistent funding, supporting collaborative processes, maintaining meaningful environmental review, and addressing long standing infrastructure challenges such as the forest service road maintenance backlog. Attempts have been made to address forest service capacities with issues and partnerships like the good neighbor authority.
▶ 0:43:29While g&a can serve as a useful tool, maintaining adequate forest service staffing remains a more efficient and accountable approach for carrying out forest management and restoration work on our federal public lands, even for native function. At its intended capacity, the authority still requires forest service personnel to lead planning, to provide oversight, and to ensure projects align with broader management goals and public interests.
▶ 0:43:52The dedicated staff on our national forests continue to do remarkable work under difficult conditions by providing them with adequate resources, consistent direction and the tools needed to engage the public. We can improve forest health, increase wildfire resilience, support local economies and ensure that our public lands are managed managed effectively for future generations. Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you, and thank you all for your testimony this morning.
▶ 0:44:23Uh, at this time, members will be recognized for questions in order of seniority, alternating between the majority and minority members and in order of arrival. For those who joined us after the hearing convened, we'll be recognized for five minutes in order each in order to allow us to get to as many questions as possible. I'd first like to recognize myself for five minutes, and I'll start with Mr. joseph, if I could.
▶ 0:44:49Um, certainly I appreciate your comments and your testimony about how forest products industry is needed for the stewardship and the conservation and protection of our forests. As we know, given that we've lost a significant number of sawmills and logging capacity over the past several decades, uh, throughout the pacific northwest and my state in particular, what does this reduction in infrastructure mean for forest health and
▶ 0:45:20Management? And, and tell me, in your view, are there ways that, that we can help support new infrastructure? >> chairman, thank you for the question. Appreciate it. It's a really important question, because I think sometimes we don't quite make the connections that I think you're making, which are when you lose the infrastructure, when you lose the mills, when you lose the people, when you lose the know how, when you lose the equipment, you lose your ability to manage forests. And that's what's happening in a huge part of the the west, not just the pacific northwest, but the west. And we've seen examples of this.
▶ 0:45:48We've seen examples in states, unfortunately, as my colleagues, where they reside in utah and parts of southern california and new mexico and arizona that have completely lost their forest products, industry, infrastructure. And when you do that, you see the environmental consequences. So in our part of the world, it's dominated by the federal government and the federal government managing national forests. And oftentimes more than 50% of the land base in these states.
▶ 0:46:14It's critical that we have a consistent, reliable, higher supply of a raw input to support that infrastructure the forest service manages was mentioned 100. This is context. I think this is critical context for congress. So sometimes we just lose sight of. The forest service manages 193 million acres. Only one third of that land base is ever eligible for timber harvest of any kind.
▶ 0:46:38And in any single year, the forest service is managing one half of 1% of one third of our national forest. So if you want to help the forest industry, if you want to help rural communities manage our forests, we'll deliver better economic, environmental and public safety and health benefits for everybody. >> thank you, thank you. Wow. Um, sheriff glover, could you take a few minutes to or.
▶ 0:47:05No, a few seconds, I should say, to expand on issues that you're currently seeing on the impacts of top down regulations and how they're impeding on interagency cooperation between local law enforcement departments and the forest service. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. So I first want to say our our relationships with the U.S. forest service, law enforcement folks on the ground are solid. Uh, we have great respect for each other. We work together every day.
▶ 0:47:33Uh, we, we are friends with the folks here in dc at the management level as well. We spend a lot of time together. The problem is, is that we weren't heard on this criminal prohibitions rule. And the issue isn't necessarily, uh, all of the details of the rule. We had some parts of the rule that we could support. The problem we had was there are some parts of the rule that are clearly, um, you know, outside of the typical guardrails of, of federal jurisdiction on lands held in proprietary interests.
▶ 0:48:02And our concern there is, is it's a bit of a camel's nose in the tent kind of a concept where other agencies, other federal agencies like the national park service or the bureau of land management are kind of keeping an eye on that and trying to see how far can we crowd the guardrails as it relates to rulemaking authority in this space? And that's our concern. That's our biggest concern, is that it could get out of hand and and it will get out of hand. >> thank you. Uh, Mr.
▶ 0:48:27Coe, um, as a district that receives a good deal of funding from the srs secure rural schools program, could you talk a little bit about how constant delays in reauthorization efforts affect the counties that rely on this funding? >> thank you. Chairman. Yes. Uh, two two examples out of the recent, um, time that the srs expired.
▶ 0:48:57One was a local school district in the county that had been years in the process of getting funding, engineering and design for a new facility at their junior high campus. They were in the early stages of construction when srs expired.
▶ 0:49:15While it was a small portion of the total budget for that project, it was vital and required them to take from other areas of the the budget that was education related to complete this construction project. As a county, it's vital for our roads. Um, we had a number of um road projects in process when srs expired.
▶ 0:49:43In order to complete those projects, we had to suspend routine maintenance. That's delays in chipseal and repaving, which just further, um degrades the condition of our, of our roads, which every access point to the national forest in modoc county is via a county road. Thank you, thank you. >> thank you for that. Real life examples. Um, ranking member salinas.
▶ 0:50:15>> uh, thank you, Mr. chairman. And again, welcome, miss whitney and Mr. joseph, both oregonians. Um, to start, could you please, uh, this is to miss whitney. To start, could you please share some of what you are seeing on the ground regarding partnerships for management of the national forest system. And this is in light of the remarkable loss of staff at the forest service over the past year. Alongside that 25% decrease in hazardous fuels reduction on the ground.
▶ 0:50:43>> yeah, we are definitely seeing some changes on the ground, definitely delays in things slowing. Um, for example, our team has been working to move forward a project where cfc actually secured outside funding outside the forest service or the federal government. And this project focused on aquatic habitat restoration that would it be beneficial to the national forest and create employment for local contractors?
▶ 0:51:03But due to severe and unexpected staffing shortages and a lack of clarity on current internal processes with within the forest service, this work has just been delayed and that is good work that could have happened with extra partnership funding. Additionally, staffing cuts and frequent policy changes have forced timber harvest and wildfire preparation projects to adapt during development, resulting in delays.
▶ 0:51:27And a recent example of this is the north packwood project, which I wrote up a case study in my written testimony if you'd like to know more, but it shows how shifting direction from the usda and the current administration um, complicates and delays forest management efforts on the ground. And there were repeated changes in policy guidance, such as environmental review requirements and legal interpretations of keys like ce6 that was legally overturned. That led the forest service to redesign the project multiple times.
▶ 0:51:55This reduced its scale, delayed implementation and caused redundant planning efforts, ultimately resulting in a much smaller treatment area than initially planned. And this uncertainty really hampers the forest service ability to efficiently carry out large landscape scale restoration and wildfire resilience. >> thank you. And then to just pivot a bit to reorganization, what do you see?
▶ 0:52:17Um, do you see any downside for moving firefighters from the forest service to the department of interior's wildland fire service when it comes to delivering more acres of hazardous fuels reduction? >> I definitely think that there are reasons to be concerned that a reorganization like that could make fuel reduction efforts more difficult. Hazardous fuels reduction is tied to landscape management through coordination among fire personnel, land managers, scientists, tribes and local communities, and collaborative partners.
▶ 0:52:46And this work includes project planning, prescribed fire if it's allowed and able to occur, um, ecosystem restoration and community engagement. And the proposed us wildfire service appears to focus on suppression and thereby discounting fire management within land management agencies responsible for long term stewardship and fuels planning. And this risks creating a disconnect between wildfire response and the proactive work needed to reduce wildfire risk before it occurs.
▶ 0:53:14And because the vast majority of forest service personnel are funded in part by dollars associated with wildland fire, transferring that funding approximately 60% to the wildland fire service would effectively decimate the forest service and compromise multiple use land management mandates. Granted, the current system isn't ideal as forest service specialists have to leave their primary role, sometimes for several months, to serve on fire duty in another district.
▶ 0:53:39It would greatly benefit productivity if the continuation of the workflow of specialists would continue their important work. Without such yearly interruptions, and a preferred alternative would be to invest in the agency capacity, workforce ability and prescribed fire on the landscape. This. This would be a better alternative and would lead to increased hazardous fuels treatments, rather than the declines we've been seeing in large scale organization transfer. That and benefits that still remain unclear.
▶ 0:54:07>> so if I could just recap for the folks back home and maybe some less technical, um, wording, what I'm hearing from you is perhaps some, some continuity, some additional collaboration to really emphasize the fuels reduction pieces of this and to balance out. So we're not always thinking about suppression. Is that correct? >> correct. >> okay.
▶ 0:54:30Um, one last question or hopefully quickly, um, when it comes to forest management, we often hear that project planning through the national environmental protection act, nepa. It's time consuming. What is your perspective on the value of the nepa process and public engagement for responsible forest management? And have you seen any benefits for public trust and reduce litigation from a robust public process? You have 30s. >> I think the bottom line is public lands deserve public input, and nepa hasn't always been a hindrance.
▶ 0:54:56In fact, I think that the nepa process actually provides public input, public process, a clear line of process that allows for transparency, public buy in, and that's beneficial for our lands. And nepa isn't the process in my written testimony, the process, uh, blockage in my written testimony, I cite some findings that show that nepa actually is a quicker pathway than being caught in litigation. >> thank you. And I yield back. >> thank you, miss salinas. Mr.
▶ 0:55:25Moore, from the great state of alabama. >> uh, thank you, Mr. chairman. It's a pleasure to see all the witnesses here today. Uh, certainly, doug lamalfa was a good friend, and heather and I grieve for his family. We miss doug. He had a big body and a big heart. And so he's a great man. Alabama forest supports rural communities, forest product jobs, hunting, recreation, wildlife habitat, public access. The national forest in alabama is about 667,000 acres. We have bankhead connect, talladega, tuskegee, all those national forests.
▶ 0:55:51And so, um, it requires a forest service, obviously, to work with the states, counties, local law enforcement, private businesses, and people who know these forests best. And I'm thankful for president trump's focus on expanding domestic timber production, improving forest health, reducing wildfire risk and cutting unnecessary delays. The goal should be healthier forest, more work completed on the ground, stronger rural economies and measurable results for taxpayers. Mr.
▶ 0:56:21Joseph, um, your testimony explains that active forest management can include commercial timber harvest thinning, prescribed burning, selective harvesting, and mechanical vegetation treatment. You also endorsed president trump administration's the national active forest management strategy, which focuses on building capacity, streamlining implementation, environmental compliance, partnerships and markets, as well as salvage and reforestation. Alabama already has a good neighbor agreement between the forest service and the alabama forestry commission.
▶ 0:56:53Under that agreement, the state can help carry out timber harvesting, hazardous fuel reduction, road work, wildlife surveys and forest restoration projects on federal land. What are the biggest barriers keeping partnerships like alabama's from producing more completed projects, healthier forests and timber that is actually delivered to american mills? What do you what do you think is the biggest barrier, Mr. joseph. >> to delivering timber to mills in america? >> yes, sir.
▶ 0:57:20>> the laws and regulations and the system, the current approach that we have to managing federal lands. Again, I think context is really important. In the pacific northwest, a vast majority of the national forests that are at risk of fire disease, insects, they're not available for management. So even if a collaborative decided, hey, we need to go in there and we need to do active management, the, the regulatory regime that overlays those national forests oftentimes restricts the ability to actually go in and do the right treatment at the right time, at the right place that needs to be fixed, and that's up to congress.
▶ 0:57:51>> so I remember ronald reagan says one of my favorite quotes, he said, the government's idea on the economy is when it's moving, you tax it. If you keep moving your regulator, it fails, you subsidize it. But very often it seems like the regulatory environment is the biggest inhibition to getting the work done and getting the timber to the mills. Is that kind of what you're telling me? >> and it impacts partners. It's not just the timber industry, it's states, counties, tribes, other organizations. The regulatory environment is not an incentive right now in national forest to do business with the federal government. It's incredibly complex and it's risky.
▶ 0:58:20>> it makes it almost impossible at times, doesn't it, to do it in certain areas. I would assume. >> it also makes it really challenging. Or if you can imagine a private interest that's thinking about building a mill in the west, why would you come in and make, you know, build a quarter billion dollar mill? If your partner is the forest service and based on the policies or politics of varying administrations, that timber flow is going to change. That's that's not certainty. That's not predictability. You can't make a business decision off of that, you know, uncertainty. >> the uncertainty.
▶ 0:58:47And so the photos you showed a while ago and, and it was pretty impactful. I thought the, the one forest had a fire six years ago. >> mhm. >> and what's the holdup? Why, why is there such a drastic difference between the one where we saw the green trees coming out of the ground they're getting up on I don't know how big they were from the photo, but then you see these others that are dead for years and been standing. What what's the what's the holdup? >> yeah. That's it again, the regulatory environment.
▶ 0:59:13So where I took that picture was from a road that bisects a roadless area near glide in near, you know, roseburg in douglas county, oregon, 130,000 acres were burned in that fire. And because of the overlying regulations of that land base, you cannot go in there and remove those dead and dying trees, even off the roadsides, bring them to a mill and reinvest the revenue back into the land. That's not allowed. >> so how long do you think that timberland is out of production? Is it forever or that. >> land base likely will be if it ever comes back as a forest?
▶ 0:59:44>> so the second photo I saw like green trees growing. What, what, how long ago has that been? That fire occurred. >> that fuel break on the second picture is an ongoing project. So that's anticipation of and a proactive strategy to try to address fire if and when it comes through that area. So that project is happening right now and ongoing as they work to complete hundreds of miles of fuel breaks across multiple jurisdictions. And that's exactly what we need to be thinking about doing. It's not just about force versus land, although that's the the focus.
▶ 1:00:12But in the west, when you have multiple ownerships, you've got to work with all of the managers to create a more holistic approach to forest management. >> gotcha. And with that, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. more. Gentleman from california, Mr. costa is recognized. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman, and the ranking member at important effort. I think that many of us who, uh, come from western states, especially, uh, share the challenges of trying to maintain and our, our forests.
▶ 1:00:44Um, I represent the san joaquin valley along with my colleague congressman valadao, but our beautiful sierra nevadas are in our backyard. Um, and, uh, included in those are the giant sequoia groves, uh, trees that are increasingly threatened by more extreme droughts and hotter and more intense wildfires. And I think we all share the notion that we no longer have a fire season, but a fire year, I think out in the west, certainly that's become the, sadly, the, the rule.
▶ 1:01:12Um, I, uh, co-sponsored the fix our forest act and the headwaters protection act spent years working on these partnerships between, uh, the federal and state efforts and local, um, supervisor cole. Uh, it's good to have fellow californian testify and a farmer rancher, uh, common sharing, um, a lot of these issues.
▶ 1:01:39And, of course, both of us mourn the loss of our friend, representative lamalfa. Um, but I would like to ask you about your, the impact you see, I've seen in the central sierra in the closing of regional and state offices, including the capacity for research, uh, and, uh, the permitting and the other kinds of things that the forest service does as a partner locally, uh, as a supervisor and a person who's involved in many areas.
▶ 1:02:08What does that mean to you in modoc county for wildfire and mitigation work on, on the ground in rural california? >> thank you, congressman costa. And, and good to see you again. Um, so I will go back to the approach of we have in modoc county, where the county works proactively with the modoc national forest.
▶ 1:02:36Um, through our coordination, um, we are able to, on a monthly basis go over issues similar to what you just discussed and, um, find solutions to those problems. Yeah. >> have you found a reduction of staff and has that impacted your ability to do the necessary work, uh, in that partnership?
▶ 1:03:02>> um, the, the reduction of staff definitely has, has impacted the, the forest, even on the modoc forest. And, and that is where our shared stewardship retired worker, um, program first got started. Um, the, the forest didn't have an engineer and they had a timber sale that was sold and ready to be harvested, but they needed an engineer to certify the road. >> yeah.
▶ 1:03:32>> we, we hired an engineer, um, through the farm bureau, um, that was retired forest engineer and we're able to complete that project. That's just one example of that program. >> okay. I need to move on. My time's limited.
▶ 1:03:44Um, uh, miss whitney, uh, your work on the ground, um, as you stated in your testimony, uh, uh, makes a strong case for public engagement and collaboration, uh, that make projects more durable and less likely to end up in court as the agency loses staff and leans on faster, more streamlined reviews. Does that mean for public trust for getting forest health and fuel projects done right the first time? >> um, I think the question is about eroding public trust.
▶ 1:04:16>> yes, yes. >> and we're definitely, definitely seeing that on, on the land. When you move into projects that don't have avenues for public input and bypass processes that allow for public to have, uh, scoping periods, commenting periods and objection periods, you only the only avenue to hold people accountable. Um, the agency accountable is litigation.
▶ 1:04:37And if you are litigating smaller projects that didn't have public input that are rs that are moved along quickly on a smaller scale that isn't nearly as time consuming and productive as it is to work on larger scale projects that have buy in through collaboratives that are going to have larger impacts on the land and less conflict at the end. >> yeah, my time is almost expired, but I'm very concerned about this whole reorganization plan and the cuts that have been made within the forest service. Um, Mr.
▶ 1:05:04Joseph, in your testimony, you highlighted the need to get back to active management and for congress to evaluate the roadblocks that that are getting in the way. I think we're always find ourselves in this spine between forest management and the funding for that and the funding we put for fire suppression. And we borrowed from peter to pay paul, we don't do a good job on the forest management areas because we're trying to triage, putting out the fires. And in the meantime, we get further behind.
▶ 1:05:35That's my assessment of this over the years that we've worked on that. Do you concur, congressman? >> you're right. And every dollar that congress invests in, proactive management saves the taxpayer $4 in wildfire damage. >> well, my time is expired. But not only that, but what we have found, Mr.
▶ 1:05:52Chairman and the ranking member, in conjunction with our universities, that when we are better able to manage our force, we retain more of the moisture and the snowpack and the water that otherwise gets soaked up literally and figuratively by the vegetation that's growing, which creates more fuel for fire. And so it becomes a a very difficult, vicious cycle.
▶ 1:06:13I think we need to reexamine the efforts between monies for fire suppression and fire and forest management to try to figure out how we can better, um, complement the two efforts. Yes. >> appreciate it very much, Mr. costa. Thank you. Uh, gentleman from indiana, Mr. baird is recognized. >> thank you, Mr. chairman and ranking member. And, um, you know, I appreciate the interest in the forest products.
▶ 1:06:40I've always been interested in agriculture, and I've got a brother that that owns a mill on the home farm. But, uh, so, so forestry is an important part of agriculture, in my opinion. So, uh, Mr. joseph, uh, I would like to back up a moment. I thought I heard you say that in in, uh, you cannot go in and, and harvest or remove trees after a fire or those downed trees.
▶ 1:07:05And the reason I want to do that, my question focuses on, um, on those hazardous fuels. And I'm, I'm interested in biochar. I'm interested in biomass utilization and other value added products. So, but, but go back and, and repeat if you will, unless I misunderstood that what you said about.
▶ 1:07:27>> some places you can, some places you can't, for example, wilderness areas you can't go in into a wilderness area after the fact and use mechanical treatments and replant that forest in a wilderness area that's restricted. Under the 1964 wilderness act, the roadless rule has restrictions about what you can and can't do on the land base. The northwest forest plan in the pacific northwest that governs 24 million acres, tells you where and what you can't do on national forest. So, yes, a vast majority of the landscape, including after a fire, are unavailable for management.
▶ 1:07:57Even if they do, you have to go through a process that I would love to talk to you about that needs to be changed. If we do want to do active management and replant our forests. >> well, in that regard, I, I agree with my colleague from california. You know, that makes no sense to me. When in agriculture, you either, you know, and and in indiana, I know through forest management, we've been able to. The net gain in productivity of board feet has increased over over the use of forest management.
▶ 1:08:26And so, you know, uh, being an agriculturalist, I don't understand why we can't harvest that. But but but aside from that, um, I'm really interested in the, in the biochar idea that, and I realize there's some concern about that, but then other biomass utilization where we could make energy out of or fuel out of those byproducts, if, if we harvested them. So I just be interested in your thoughts in that regard. >> we there's extraordinary opportunity there.
▶ 1:08:54And currently the renewable fuel standard and how we treat biomass and woody biomass is really important and critical. And my understanding that there are ongoing conversations to try to come up with a bipartisan solution to make sure that we treat wood equitably in terms of policy in the law and the renewable fuel standard.
▶ 1:09:10So there's an extraordinary opportunity for all these other uses of of wood and biomass that support society, including, as you said, energy and fuel right now, by the way, woody biomass from federal lands does not qualify for renewable fuel standard. So we're leaving 193 million acres in all the outputs from those lands don't qualify for the rfs. That needs to change. >> well thank you.
▶ 1:09:34And then, you know, I'm going to preface my next question, uh, which will be to Mr. coe. But, um, but >> Mr. glover, you're the sheriff, and I. I read something or saw something interesting back in 1948. They they moved in through low flying planes because it was too difficult terrain to get them any other way. They brought beavers into a valley there in utah. They called it flying, and they.
▶ 1:10:01And then that the video of all that got misfiled for 60 some years. So those beavers worked in that valley all that time. And then when he had a when he had a giant fire up, that area was not involved because they built so many dams and worked so effectively. I just, I just bring that up because we're talking about nature and, and, and national forests.
▶ 1:10:26And sometimes if you let nature alone, uh, it'll take care of itself. But I don't ask you to comment on that because anyway, my question, my my question, Mr. coe, goes to the, the role of the universities. And you've worked with the university of california extension service. You've also worked with the with the california farm bureau as well as naco. Um, so I just would appreciate your thoughts. And we got about 40 some seconds.
▶ 1:10:56Uh, I appreciate your thoughts on the importance of these extension service and some of these other, the cooperation with the counties and so on in that regard to fire prevention, the forest management. >> the knowledge that the extension service can, um, put on the ground at the local level is, is amazing.
▶ 1:11:17Um, we have the opportunity in modoc county to work with a, a range specialist natural resources. Uh, and, and the work that, that she does to assist in fuels management, range management, um, working with ranchers is, is incredible. >> thank you very much. And my time is up. I yield back, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:11:47>> thank you, Mr. baird. Mr. vasquez, you are recognized. >> thank you so much, chairman newhouse. Thank you to our panel of experts today. Um, I represent new mexico's second district, home to four national forest. I hunt deer and quail in the coronado. I fish for trout and backpack in the gila hunt. Turkey and lincoln. And I hike and camp in the cibola. I know these areas very well. It's where I prefer to spend my time when I'm back home.
▶ 1:12:12And what I can tell you is that every forest is different, should be managed different, and should operate with a modernized management plan and adequate and stable staffing. Uh, partnerships are necessary and should be expanded, but it also can't replace adequate forest service staffing as well as new management plans. Uh, but today I want to focus on an issue that's very important to my district, and that is the secure rural schools program.
▶ 1:12:38For decades, srs has helped counties provide the basic services that people count on every day, such as schools and roads. And when that funding is delayed or uncertain, local leaders are forced to make impossible decisions about budgets, staffing and public safety. That's why last august, I convened a meeting in catron county, a bedroom community, to the gila national forest and a very rural part of my district, and spoke with stakeholders including republican state representatives, local elected officials, teachers and others about the importance of reauthorizing srs.
▶ 1:13:07That's why I also introduced the bipartisan secure rural schools reauthorization act with the late congressman lamalfa just last year, which ultimately passed with bipartisan support, which is a win that was applauded by state lawmakers from both sides of the aisle back home in new mexico. But that funding is set to lapse again in 2027. I believe our communities deserve certainty, not year to year uncertainty over whether they're going to have the resources that they need.
▶ 1:13:36So my first question is for supervisor ko. Um, could you tell me as a supervisor, what happens when srs funding isn't reliable, when it's delayed and congress waits until the last minute to act? How does that impact your budget and your operations? >> it creates massive budget and uncertainty. Um, unlike some other entities, a county has to budget with the revenue that they have available.
▶ 1:14:05Um, and when that did not come through this past several years with the um, expiring of srs, it required us to make hard decisions. Um, as I indicated previously, delay road work, but it goes way beyond just roads and schools in, in the impact to our, to our budget. >> thank you. Supervisor cohen.
▶ 1:14:34I can tell you in one of the most rural schools in colorado, new mexico, if we didn't get that done in time, there were going to let go about a dozen teachers from the local elementary school. That's the impact in that community. So thank you. I appreciate you sharing that insight. Uh, sheriff glover, I'd like to ask you the same question from a public safety perspective. Uh, what a stable srs funding mean for law enforcement and emergency response, in particular in counties with large amounts of federal land where tax revenue is limited.
▶ 1:15:03And how does that lapse or delay srs funding negatively impact public safety? >> yeah, uh, many law enforcement agencies, sheriff's offices across the west are dependent on srs funding in the pacific northwest. I have with me, uh, hood river county sheriff matt english, uh, large forest in his county, lots of visitors, 4 million visitors in his county. I've got a similar, less forest in my county, but I get about five between 5 and 6 million visitors that come through our county.
▶ 1:15:31We're small counties of 20, you know, 10,000, 20,000 population. So that srs funding for search and rescue services is critical. It has to be on time. Again. You know, I echo supervisor co when when it's unknown whether these programs like pilt or srs are going to move forward. It creates real budget uncertainty and difficulty during our budget seasons on how are we going to pay for these services that truly do save lives every day. >> thank you so much, sheriff.
▶ 1:15:59And that's why these bedrock programs like pilt and srs are so important to the rural west. And I think in this committee and in congress as a whole, uh, we have to look at solutions for permanent reauthorization and appropriation so that your counties don't have to go through this every year. And that's the same message that I've been hearing from my county commissioners back home. They still have to pass budgets. They still have to hire deputies, keep roads maintained, support their schools, and they can't put those responsibilities on hold while they wait for washington to get its act together.
▶ 1:16:27So srs funding truly is about supporting and keeping rural communities safe. This program is set to lapse again next spring, and this can. This committee has to continue to work together in a bipartisan fashion to prevent any more delays or lapses in funding, uh, the health of both our forest and our rural communities and their economies depend on it. Thank you all. Thank you. Chairman, I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. vazquez. And I recognize the gentleman from california, Mr. valadao. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:16:55Thank you to all of our witnesses for your time today. Um, while many of my constituents don't live in or near national forest, they still experience the consequences when catastrophic wildfires occur occur. Mr. coe, numerous studies have found that active forest management practices, such as the prescribed burns and fuel reduction projects, can reduce wildfire severity and improve forest health. Are there any barriers to allowing those practices from being implemented?
▶ 1:17:25>> yes, as other members of the panel have already indicated, there are barriers every day to active forest management and and I'll refer back to an example that occurred several decades ago. It was part of the quincy library group where they did a, um, a shaded fuel break similar that was shown in the, in the photograph today.
▶ 1:17:48And the moon fire, which was raging out of control, got to that and dropped down and was actually went out on his own because of active fuel management. >> all right. >> miss whitney, farmers in my district depend on water that originates in forested watersheds.
▶ 1:18:09Are there current federal policies, permitting requirements or funding limitations delaying watershed focused forest management projects from being carried out at a scale needed? >> I think funding delays and staffing across the national forest is delaying all proposed actions, regardless of water or what have you. And so I would say that, yes, that is happening.
▶ 1:18:35I don't have any particular instances on the gifford pinchot national forest that I can call out to say that that's actually happening, but I'm sure that it is. >> all right. Thank you, Mr. coe. As congress appropriates money and reauthorizes forest management programs each year, what metrics should we use to determine whether these investments are making forest and communities safer? Do you believe we are measuring the right outcomes today?
▶ 1:19:01>> looking at the results, I would say the measurements of the outcomes are are not being looked at correctly. Um, our forests are in in much poorer condition. Um, as your previous question about water off of the forests, when I left monday, I, I watched the last of my irrigation water for this summer coming down the ditch.
▶ 1:19:30When I get home tomorrow, it's going to be dry. And that's because all my water comes off of national forest land that has anywhere from, um, magnitudes of more trees per acre than it can support that water being consumed up there with small, stunted trees. >> I guess I should have asked you the same question that I asked miss whitney.
▶ 1:19:55Are there any current funding, a federal policies, permitting requirements or funding limitations delaying watershed focused forest management projects from being carried out to the scale needed? >> absolutely. >> any one specifics you want to highlight? >> um, one that congressman lamafa worked on for years, the cites project. This is an off stream reservoir project that would supply water even to your district.
▶ 1:20:22That has been entire lifetimes of spent working on the engineering and the study of it. But yet we don't have a drop of water saved from it. >> yeah. From my understanding, cites has been in the planning stages for 60 years now. >> yeah, that was the number I was going to use. >> it's a little longer than my life, but I'm not sure if it's longer than the chairman's life.
▶ 1:20:51Sheriff glover, in your testimony, you mentioned difficulties in working with us, forest management, uh, forest law enforcement, uh, especially after the national memorandum of agreement was modified in 2023. How can congress straighten the partnership between law enforcement division and county sheriff offices across the country as they work towards their shared goal? >> yeah, thank you for your question. We need to get the criminal prohibitions rule off the table repealed, whether that's through this legislation, h.r.
▶ 1:21:216802 or another means, uh, and just get back to the table. I think we can solve this problem in short order. Actually. We love these guys. We like working together with them. We we work very well together. But we can't we can't sustain, uh, you know, them usurping our authority and jurisdiction on a state and county level at, you know, like they did with this rulemaking. So if we can get that rule off the table and get back to the table, I have great confidence that we'll resolve this issue and move forward.
▶ 1:21:51>> all right. My time is up. Yield back to the chairman. Thank you. >> thank the gentleman who should understand that the next hearing he'll only get 2.5 minutes and ask questions. So, um, I think that completes the round of questioning from our members on the committee. It before we adjourn, what I'd like to do is give the ranking member, uh, Mr.
▶ 1:22:15Vasquez, an opportunity for a closing comment, and then I may have some comments at the end as well. >> thank you so much, chairman. Thank you as well, again, to our guests for being here in washington for this important subcommittee hearing. Um, I'm happy that I'm glad we had the opportunity to discuss the importance of durable and lasting partnerships in forest and rural communities and discuss a regulatory environment that is conducive to improving forest health and conditions, especially during times when we need it most.
▶ 1:22:42In this heightened wildfire risk season that we face today. And it's also important for us to remember that our forests are the land of many uses. Uh, and stakeholders do deserve a voice. Uh, however, that shouldn't come at the expense of getting projects on the ground when we need them the most. I do just want to briefly address wildfire risk, because new mexico faced two of our largest wildfires in our state's history in just the last three years, including right in my district, the black fire in the gila national forest.
▶ 1:23:11And there are many solutions, um, some of them which have been discussed here today. Uh, but I want to just continue to throw some of these out there as we continue this conversation. Uh, that includes protecting the integrity of our watersheds. That includes maintaining trails to cut fire lines, which requires volunteer and staff and conservation corps and other folks to do that work. Uh, it requires funding and support for volunteer fire departments. That's one of the biggest issues that we face in my district.
▶ 1:23:40Oftentimes as the first responders, uh, improving the communication infrastructure for the network of first responders in rural communities is also incredibly important. When that fire lookout first spots the fire, uh, we've got to take action. And those lines of communication are often broken in rural counties like those in my district.
▶ 1:23:58I mentioned the full funding and reauthorization of srs, properly staffed regions and individual units, adequate staffing for the development and implementation of new forest plans under the 2012 rule. Modernized prescriptive burn practices. I can't emphasize that enough. Uh, that was the cause of the hermits peak calf canyon fire in northern new mexico, which was completely preventable and have devastated that community.
▶ 1:24:23Um, easing regulations on fuel thinning and timber harvesting, where it's appropriate in different forest units. And of course, the fix our forest act, which I also supported, that provides some of those common sense solutions. Uh, we've got to tackle these issues sooner than later. And certainly those partnerships that we build with local governments, tribes, and stakeholders have to be there, have to be solid. And we've got to have adequate staffing to ensure that we can execute on those partnerships. Thank you. Chairman. >> thank you, Mr. vazquez.
▶ 1:24:50Uh, first of all, I'd just like to thank everyone for joining us today to take part in this important discussion on a very important topic. And particularly, I want to thank the witnesses. Uh, I believe I can speak on behalf of the entire subcommittee when I say that. We do deeply appreciate you traveling across the entire country, uh, to share your wisdom with us here in congress.
▶ 1:25:17Uh, just as the forest service depends on their partners to, to steward our public lands, we in congress greatly benefit from people like you coming all the way to washington, D.C. uh, to provide us with such thoughtful and answers to our maybe not so thoughtful questions. So thank you very much for that.
▶ 1:25:36Um, your experiences shaped the policies that we champion and 193 million acres of cherished public land are better off because the four of you are here today. So thank you. Thank you very much for that. Um, under the rules of the committee, the record of today's hearing will remain open for ten calendar days to receive additional materials and supplementary written responses from the witnesses to any question posed by a member.
▶ 1:26:08So take note of that. And with that, this hearing is on. The subcommittee on forestry and agriculture is adjourned. Thank you very much.