▶ 0:03:35The subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to examine the future of the Abraham Accords and opportunities to strengthen and expand regional cooperation among existing and prospective partners. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good afternoon and welcome to today's hearing on the future of the Abraham Accords.
▶ 0:03:58Thank you to my colleagues and our esteemed witnesses for being here today as we examine one of the most transformative diplomatic initiatives in the Middle East. Nearly six years ago, the Abraham Accords fundamentally changed the trajectory of the Middle East. They demonstrated that peace and cooperation are possible when countries choose shared interests over old divisions.
▶ 0:04:22The agreements between Israel, the United Arab Emirates, and Bahrain, followed by Morocco and Kazakhstan, open the door to a new era of diplomatic engagement, economic integration, technological innovation, and security cooperation. President Trump during his first administration was instrumental in making these agreements possible. And while they were an afterthought to President Biden, Mr. Trump and his team have again brought them to the forefront of US policy in the Middle East.
▶ 0:04:52We will continue to play a central role in advancing similar agreements and ensuring the long-term success of those already in place. The Middle East looks very different today than it did in 2020.
▶ 0:05:06Prior to the Abraham Accords, the region has faced unprecedented challenges from Iran's aggression and the threat posed by its terrorist proxies to the rapid evolution of emerging technologies, economic competition, and shifting geopolitical dynamics. At the same time, these challenges have reinforced an important lesson. America's partners are stronger and our interests are better protected when the region works together.
▶ 0:05:35The Abraham Accord should not be viewed as a finished product. They are a foundation upon which we can build a stronger regional security architecture, expand economic opportunity, encourage innovation, and create new pathways for peace, which is why today's hearing is so important. We are not simply looking back at what the accords have accomplished. We are looking ahead. How we can deepen security cooperation. How we can accelerate trade and investment.
▶ 0:06:06How we can expand cooperation on artificial intelligence, cyber security, energy, infrastructure and emerging technologies. What role shouldn't look forward to your testimony as we examine how the United States can build one of the most consequential diplomatic achievements in mo in the modern Middle East. With that, I now recognize a ranking member for his opening Thank you.
▶ 0:06:32Support the Abrahamic Accords, but those accords are pretty much just normal relations with cooperation as normal countries do with Muslim majority countries. Israel has such relations with 23 Muslim majority countries, only three of which are a result of the Abrahamic Accords efforts. I couldn't the chairman points out that the Middle East looks substantially different. than it did in 2020. This is true.
▶ 0:07:02This is because of our and uh uh disastrous unplanned war against Iran. Our witnesses today uh who have served in the Trump administration spend much of their uh opening statements, at least as provided uh in advance to us, attacking the Biden administration for not enforcing sanctions against Iran.
▶ 0:07:32But because we are in a losing position in this war, the president of the United States has signed this memorandum of understanding which states that the United States undertakes to terminate all types of sanctions against the Islamic Republic including the UN Security Council resolution.
▶ 0:07:50all unilateral US sanctions, primary and sec secondary, and uh uh goes on to say that the United States is obligated to immediately wave all e uh uh uh to issue waiverss for the export of Iranian crude oil, petroleum products, derivatives, for is for Israel.
▶ 0:08:23It's amazing how much activity you can generate here in the RAN building if you're the Chinese Communist Party and you pay certain people to do this.
▶ 0:08:37Couldn't agree more. So uh the qu the most important part of an Abrahamic accord success would be relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, the guardian of the holy places and the Saudis have made it clear that there needs to be progress toward a Palestinian state for them to move forward on that.
▶ 0:09:04There was some attempt to instead get the Saudis to ignore the Palestinians in return for a nuclear cooperation agreement with the United States. Today or last night, it was announced uh that there is an agreement with the the Saudis on nuclear cooperation that does nothing for the Abrahamic Accords, but worse yet poses a severe threat of nuclear proliferation.
▶ 0:09:34Um now there I am been doing this a long time. I remember when the most powerful monarch in the Middle East was a friend of the United States and that was the sha and every weapons system the sha had in 1978 is in the hands of the mullas starting in 1979.
▶ 0:09:55We cannot allow a Saudi nuclear program to go forward without the same without the uh same uh uh uh safeguards that the UAE agreed to. Now the UAE agreed to standards that are fully consistent with generating electricity. That's why 25% of the UAE's uh electricity today is generated with nuclear power.
▶ 0:10:24but nuclear power where the UAE has agreed to no enrichment, no reprocessing and most importantly has agreed to the additional protocol. Iran agreed to the additional protocol uh in the JCPOA. The additional protocol does nothing to prevent anything that is of economic benefit to any of the parties. It simply provides for more IAEA inspections.
▶ 0:10:52the fact that Saudi Arabia would not only insist upon reprocessing, insist upon enrichment, things that we would never uh want to see Iran do,
▶ 0:11:06would I I I think the Chinese Communist Party is getting its money's worth. Um but uh uh for us to enter in to green light a Saudi program that not only has enrichment and reprocessing things we severely limited Iran on in the JCPOA but also doesn't even have an additional protocol doesn't even have inspections uh at that level
▶ 0:11:36uh is outrageous and it is not uh made better because Westinghouse stands to make a lot of money and they're a nice American company. I'd yield back.
▶ 0:11:47Gentleman yields back. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this important topic. The Honorable David Freriedman, the former US ambassador to Israel. Mr. Asher Fredman, the executive director of the Mskav Institute for National Security and visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation and the Honorable Daniel B.
▶ 0:12:15Shapiro, the former US ambassador to Israel and distinguished fellow for the Skraftoft Middle East initiative at the Atlantic Council. This committee recognizes the importance of the issues before us and is grateful to have you here to speak with us today. Your full statements will be made part of the record and I'll ask each of you to keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for member questions. I now recognize Ambassador Freriedman for an opening statement.
▶ 0:12:44Thank you, Chairman Lawler, Ranking Member Sherman, distinguished members of the subcommittee. Uh thank you for the opportunity to speak with you this afternoon and to uh speak on an issue very near and dear to my heart. Uh the Abraham Accords. Uh my written statement, as you pointed out, is on file. uh I'd like to incorporate that within my testimony. But in the short time that is allotted to me right now, I want to focus on one critical point, which is the diplomatic predicate for the advancement of the Abraham Accords.
▶ 0:13:13Um I I I think the the committee was
▶ 0:13:17uh to invite my my predecessor, Ambassador Daniel Shapiro, to submit a a statement. I had a chance to look at his statement uh uh earlier today. Uh Dan is an American patriot. He's a believer in the strategic importance of the USIsrael relationship and um I think he loves Israel. Uh he's offered an opinion with which I fundamentally uh disagree. I think he just happens to be wrong. Well-intentioned but wrong.
▶ 0:13:42And I have no interest in picking on him, but I think if I can just put the differences that we share uh on the record, it will put I think in high relief uh one of the critical issues with regard to advancing the Abraham Accords. Um my opinion is based on facts. It's based on personal experiences. Uh it's not based on wishful thinking. Uh I was one of the few people who negotiated the Abraham Accords. I know what goes into expanding them. Uh and we got to start by understanding what the Abraham Accords are.
▶ 0:14:11Uh all the parties recognize that the key to the Abraham Accords in a nutshell, they were a victory of the moderates over the extremists within the Middle East. We were able to get there in the first Trump administration by doing two things. by degrading the extremists and by standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Israel. It's a simple, basic, and highly moral formula. How do we degrade the extremists? Well, President Trump restored backbreaking sanctions on the Islamic Republic of Iran.
▶ 0:14:39It brought he brought their oil exports down to essentially zero. And he cut off all funding for UNRA, which as we all know today, but frankly, which was knowable for the last two decades. I I certainly knew about it for the last 10 years. uh UNRA provided financial, military and propaganda support for Hamas terror. And how did we stand with Israel? Frankly, like never before. Among other things, moving our embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights.
▶ 0:15:08Now, in response to that strategy, many people on the left said that we were recklessly moving the region to war. The facts are otherwise. We were moving the region to peace. By standing closely with Israel and standing strongly against Iran and Hamas, President Trump was pursuing a policy that was embraced, not challenged, but embraced by moderate Arab countries. He also confirmed Israel's status as a regional superpower and a critical strategic partner in the region. It caused moderate Arab nations to want to partner with Israel.
▶ 0:15:39Now, when the Biden administration came in, the table was set to expand the Abraham Accords. But he reversed all of President Trump's policies that drove the Accords in the first place, including restoring Iran to a wealthy adversary with extraordinarily lacks sanctions enforcement and providing UNRA with over $1 billion in cash. This put the extremists back in the lead. It was the antithesis of all the Abraham Accords were designed to avoid.
▶ 0:16:08In addition, when the Biden administration took up the accords, it added a condition that was not present in any of the other successful deals, a requirement of a Palestinian state. Such a condition was a guarantee of failure then, and it continues to guarantee failure today. Israel properly will not agree to it. The experiment has already been tried and failed in Gaza, and even Palestinians don't want this result either.
▶ 0:16:35Frankly, the United States should have no role no role in putting its impimeter on a corrupt Palestinian state which will have no recognition of human rights and it undoubtedly will fail, but not before wreaking havoc in the region and bringing Israel existential risk. Ambassador Shapiro says in his testimony that America's war against Iran is quote a strategic blunder on many counts.
▶ 0:17:01I don't think there's a single present or potential party to the Abraham Accords that agrees with that. And I hope that when the war ends successfully, victoriously for the United States, as we all hope, pray, and believe it will, the moderates will be back in the lead, and the Abraham Accords will have a bright future. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:17:23Thank you, Ambassador Freriedman. I now recognize Mr. Fredman for an opening Chairman Lawler, Ranking Member Sherman, honorable members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today. My message is simple. The Abraham Accords can serve as the foundation of a new US aligned regional architecture of mutual security, integrated economic development, cuttingedge innovation and interfaith tolerance.
▶ 0:17:51If fully realized, it will strengthen American and regional prosperity and stability, create alternatives to Chinese dominated frameworks, and help ensure America's preeminence in the global competition over critical technology. However, realizing this potential after nearly three years of multi-front war in the Middle East will require sustained and committed American leadership.
▶ 0:18:18The historic Abraham Accords signed in 2020 under the opices of President Trump led to a flourishing of ties in many fields AI, cyber, health, water, agriculture, defense, and many other areas. Israel's cumulative trade with the Abraham Accords and Arab peace partners has grown every year since the Accords were signed.
▶ 0:18:39Despite regional tensions and disruptions, trade rose in 2024 as compared to 2023, in 2025 as compared to 2024, and it's up again in 2026 as compared to 2025. It's increased since 2021, it's increased approximately by But while the Accords have demonstrated remarkable resilience, we must not downplay the damage caused by the regional war which ensued following Kamas's October 7th attack.
▶ 0:19:10Public support for normalization declined. People-to-people initiatives suffered. Multilateral forums lost momentum and normalization slowed. Restoring the Accord's momentum is vital to US national security interests. I will now briefly present five ways Congress can contribute to achieving this goal which are presented in greater detail in my written testimony.
▶ 0:19:32First, advance concrete steps to realize the vision of the India Middle East Europe corridor or IMC could become one of the most consequential infrastructure projects of this generation shortening transit times between India and Europe by approximately 51%. supporting strategic east west natural gas and digital infrastructure and creating a US aligned zone of economic growth which serves an alternative to the Chinese belt and road initiative.
▶ 0:20:02Yet there's been relatively little governmental analysis of IMX benefits, costs and opportunities. Such analysis is crucial visav our partners in the region for overcoming geopolitical, financial and bureaucratic hurdles.
▶ 0:20:16Congress will request US international trade commission and department of commerceled studies to identify IMIX impacts and develop an actionable roadmap including bankable projects, investment opportunities and steps to harmonize custom procedures that goods can move uh smoothly from India to Europe. The United States should also convene an IMC leaders forum and establish a standing secretariat to enhance accountability. Second, Congress should help establish an Abram Accords critical technology partnership.
▶ 0:20:47Technological leadership and alliances will increasingly shape the global balance of power. Legislation could build on the proposed USIsrael AI int AI center act introduced by then Senator Marco Rubio in 2021 and expand it to include additional Abraham Accords partners and addition areas such as quantum, biotech, and space. Third, strengthen regional defense integration.
▶ 0:21:10The United States should establish an Abraham Accords comprehensive security, integration, and prosperity agreement modeled on the agreement signed between the United States and the Kingdom of Bahrain in September 2023. Fourth, we must strengthen the foundations of people-to-people peace. This can be achieved by adapting existing US scientific, educational, and leadership programs to include dedicated Abraham Accords tracks, cohorts, and initiatives.
▶ 0:21:37These can be created through the state department's international visitor leadership program, the Middle East partnership initiative, the Stevens initiative for virtual exchange, the Middle East regional coopord cooperation program and other existing programs. Fifth, appoint the congressionallymandated special envoy for the Abraham Accords and develop countryspecific strategies for normalization with a broad range of countries.
▶ 0:22:01While Saudi Israel normalization is certainly important, there are more than two dozen countries, Arab and Muslim countries that lack formal relations with Israel. The special envoy should develop detailed road maps for multiple potential Abraham Accords countries based on the national priorities, goals, and shared interests with each. Honorable members, the Abraham Accords demonstrated how bold and innovative American leadership could produce outcomes many believed were impossible.
▶ 0:22:30With continued American leadership, these agreements can shape a new regional reality of peace, prosperity, and partnership. Thank you very much, and I look forward to your
▶ 0:22:40Thank you, Mr. Friedman. I now recognize Ambassador Shapiro for an opening
▶ 0:22:45Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Rank Member Sherman, distinguished members of the subcommittee, appreciate the opportunity to testify today. As we approach the sixth anniversary of the Abraham Accords, they continue to stand as a laudable diplomatic achievement of the first Trump administration, which formalized the first Arab-Israeli relationships in a generation forged on a base the basis of mutual security, trust, and economic benefits. They also catalyzed a series of additional steps towards regional integration during the Biden administration. So they were far from an afterthought.
▶ 0:23:14uh the negative forum which brought together the United States, Israel, Egypt, Bahrain, Morocco and the UAE to support a range of projects to bring the benefits of integration to their populations. I led that as the senior adviser for the Middle East regional integration. the I2U2 partnership between India, Israel, UAE, and the United States.
▶ 0:23:30The India Middle East Europe economic corridor, IMAC, unveiled at the 2023 G20 summit, and Israel's incorporation into the US Central Command area of responsibility in 2021, which has facilitated dramatic steps in Israeli Arab military cooperation, progress toward an integrated Middle East defense architecture, and important successes against common enemies. I had the honor to work on those issues as the deputy assistant secretary of defense for the Middle East in 2024.
▶ 0:23:56Now, Hamas's brutal October 7th terrorist attacks and the war that followed have delayed many of the follow-on integration efforts, but they did not extinguish the Abraham Accords themselves. Those bilateral relations established between Israel and the UAE, Bahrain, and Morocco have withstood the enormous pressures of the last three years, and that gives us a solid base to build on, and it remains very much in the United States interest to continue to expand regional integration. Our goal should be to entrench this process as an organic force to help stabilize the region through independ interdependence and partnership.
▶ 0:24:26With my remaining time, I'll highlight a few openings in the region today that merit optimism, point out potential obstacles and impediments, and offer some recommendations for the way forward. First, the openings. New leadership in Lebanon and Syria present once in a generation opportunities for productive cooperation with Israel. The framework agreement signed between Beirut and Jerusalem in late June is a promising step for which the administration and both parties deserve credit. President Aun reiterated at the White House yesterday that Lebanon seeks peaceful coexistence with Israel.
▶ 0:24:55The focus now must be on implementation with broad regional international support of the agreement's provisions to disarm Hezbollah, fully deploy the Lebanese armed forces, and enable full Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon. President Trump's recent decision to remove Syria's designation as a state sponsor of terrorism is an important sign of confidence in President Alshara's administration.
▶ 0:25:15While carefully verifying Syria's commitments, this decision can reanimate negotiations between Israel and Syria on security agreements incentivized by the prospect of Israel's withdrawal from the buffer zone it had established in Syrian territory. And although the war with Iran, about which I will say more, further complicates regional integration, the repeated closure of the straight of Hormuz since March, reinforces the value of alternative energy routes and expanded infrastructure, a core pillar of IMC and similar efforts and should energize near-term focus and investments on the infrastructure
▶ 0:25:45of that corridor. Now, the challenges having seen the devastation in Gaza and the suffering of Palestinian civilians, Arab publics have turned sharply negative toward normalization with Israel. The ceasefire and hostage release deal signed last October has provided some respit to Palestinians in Gaza.
▶ 0:26:01But the stalled implementation of President Trump's 20point plan caused by Hamas's refusal to disarm, but also hampered by Israeli actions and sluggishness by Arab states leaves the issue woefully unsettled and Palestinian civilian suffering continues in full view of the same publics that regional leaders must consider. The Israeli public is understandably fearful of another October 7th style attack and is more supportive therefore of proactive posture to countering security threats.
▶ 0:26:28Israel's increasingly forward-leaning defense posture and also its aggressive settlement expansion and turning a blind eye toward terrorism by Jewish extremists against Palestinian civilians in the West Bank and other measures intended to rule out any possible future establishment of a Palestinian state. add challenges to Arab leaders who want to make steps toward normalization palatable to their publics. The greatest impediment, however, is the Iran war, which has indeed been a strategic blunder on many counts.
▶ 0:26:54Despite impressive tactical successes by the US military, our political leadership has failed to translate this military precision into strategic success. The regime in Thran, arguably even more radical now, has absorbed our strongest punch and emerged with unprecedented leverage through control of the Strait of Hormuz.
▶ 0:27:10Having achieved none of the various goals identified during the war, we now face the prospect of either leaving our regional partners to contend with an emboldened Iran or a highly costly forever war with massive sustained US military presence and periodic escalations around the street. That situation is not fertile ground for greater in regional integration. In fact, it makes the task before us more difficult.
▶ 0:27:31Yes, Israel has provided important defense support to the UAE, but simultaneously many of the Gulf states are reappraising the risk of allowing US bases on their soil as they question the reliability of US security commitments. Going forward, Sentcom's ability to serve as an integrator for practical Arab-Israeli military cooperation may face significant limits as Gulf States worry about such initiatives at a time when Israeli and US decisions in their view are dist contributing to regional instability. Very briefly, in my written testimony, I lay out a number of recommendations.
▶ 0:28:02I'll just briefly mention them. The first and most foundational of these is to bring the war with Iran to its earliest possible end, ensuring the straight of Hormuz remains open. Uh second, pursuing active diplomacy on implementation of the president's 20point plan for Gaza, priorit prioritizing Hamas's disarmament but advancing other elements in peril.
▶ 0:28:20Insisting on actions by Israel to lower tensions in the West Bank, resuming normalization discussions with Saudi Arabia, mindful of the Saudi insistence at every stage, and I've negotiated with them on this, that it include a credible pathway to Palestinian statehood. Normalization between Israel and the kingdom would be the single most transformative diplomatic breakthrough to reshape the region. Here I must confess to being concerned by President Trump's decision to provide Saudi Arabia with a civil nuclear energy deal without using it as an incentive for normalization.
▶ 0:28:49Uh finally, I'll just mention uh two others. Resisting the temptation to see the Abraham Accords as the exclusive brand or vehicle for regional integration. Things like IMC and Negapform and others are also uh valuable.
▶ 0:29:02and appointing and confirming, as was mentioned, a special envoy for the Abraham Accords, the product of the Lawler Taurus legislation incorporated into the FY2024 NDAA, which would bust buttress US diplomatic initiatives at a time when the officials uh charged with that responsibility have far too much on their plate and are spread far too thin. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:29:25Thank you, Ambassador Shapiro. I just ask all the witnesses uh to sit a little further back from the mics or push the mic back a little bit. Uh the audio is not necessarily as clear just if you're right in it. So um and I'll recognize myself for five minutes of questioning.
▶ 0:29:43Uh recent reporting shows some officials are proposing to remove Israel from existing plans to develop an India Middle East Europe economic corridor known as this network would connect the regions through new rails, ports and shipping lanes linking economies and providing greater integration. Israel has been a critical piece of the puzzle connecting Saudi Arabia and Greece.
▶ 0:30:07Unfortunately, reporting came out recently that anonymous Saudi officials were considering connecting these two countries through Syria instead. Uh, and just the other day, it came out that Ambassador Barack out in Turkey was also supporting this. Uh, in my mind, that is unacceptable. And I recently sent a letter to Secretary Rubio urging him to ensure Israel's inclusion in IMC.
▶ 0:30:33Ambassador Freriedman, can you speak to how IMC and similar infrastructure projects could help further develop Israel's relationships with Arab nations in the Middle East?
▶ 0:30:43Sure, thank you for the question. Um, I think that and other projects are uh are integral to a more peaceful and uh cooperative Middle East. Um, I would be uh very skeptical about financing a pipeline that ran through Syria, notwithstanding the advancements that they've made uh in the past.
▶ 0:31:03But forgetting about forgetting about the diplomatic aspects of it, I don't think I want a pipeline of that significance running through Syria until, you know, 20 years have gone by and we see a real stable nation there as opposed to uh putting it through Israel, ideally putting it, you know, uh inside of Judea and Samaria and creating uh uh job opportunities for the tens of thousands of Palestinians.
▶ 0:31:26I think it's um these are these are important steps where I think Congress you know as the as as the keeper of the purse I think has a real role to play and um and I would encourage Congress to always be looking for ways uh to create better economic opportunities. That is of course in most cases how how peace is born.
▶ 0:31:44I have said repeatedly that I think Jordan has been uh not only ours but uh in many respects Israel's greatest ally uh in the Middle East. uh and uh we have uh certainly seen Jordan maintain diplomatic relations with Israel since 1994. But one could argue that Israel's relationship with newer Abraham Accords partners like UAE and Bahrain are significantly stronger than the relationship with Jordan.
▶ 0:32:12Uh Jordan has been an instrumental partner for the US uh especially in support of our military and in defense against Iranian attacks. Uh all the while the country is facing growing poverty and influx of refugees and water scarcity. Uh Ambassador Freriedman, what can we in the US uh and the Israeli government do to bolster Israel's relationship with Jordan and show the king and the Jordanian people how much we value their partnership.
▶ 0:32:44Well, Jordan is is Israeli's long Israel's longest border is is along side of Jordan. Uh it's [snorts] been a quiet border, thank God, for uh for for quite a long time since probably 1970s. Uh but it is it is a poor and an unstable country. Uh the king's um grandfather was assassinated by radical Palestinians. Um most of Jordan is uh is a Palestinian uh society.
▶ 0:33:10U I I would say that Jordan is Palestine, but you don't need to go there right now. But the the the way to bolster Jordan, I think, is to um the king needs to have better economic opportunities for his people. And I think that um there there there needs to be a a resolution of that very very hostile land in between the Green Line and Jordan that that that works.
▶ 0:33:36And um I'll say something that I don't think the king would say publicly, but I think the last thing he wants is a Palestinian state between Israel and Jordan. I think that would pose an enormous risk to to Jordan. So I would say again it's it's a similar answer to your your prior question. They need jobs. They need a better economy. Uh it's not a country with with oil natural resources. Uh it's a country which um you know is it's autocratic. There's no democracy there. It's it's got lots of issues.
▶ 0:34:04Um we should we should bolster them as as much as we can. um the that border if that border fails uh we're talking about something far worse for Israel and the world than what we saw on October 7th. Appreciate it. During the Biden administration, no countries joined uh the Abraham Accords and just last week over 100 members of the Democratic Party voted to defund all State Department funding for Israel.
▶ 0:34:29Uh this includes cross-cultural programs that have improved people-to-people relationships in the Middle East. Ambassador Shapiro, in your view, is there still broad support within the Democratic Party for continuing to expand the accords? Uh, or has the party given up on improving Israel's relationships within the Middle East? Could mostly speak for myself, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the question.
▶ 0:34:52Uh but I do believe there remains uh a strong base of support uh to continue to try to strengthen the relationships not just between Israel and uh its Arab neighbors but as a kind of coalition of US partners uh of moderate nations aligned uh to deal with the what's called the axis of resistance Iran and its terrorist proxies. Um and that should remain uh certainly I'll be an advocate for it to remain a focal point of US policy.
▶ 0:35:20I think that fundamentally serves US interests and fundamentally serves the interests of Israelis, Palestinians, Arabs, uh, and all of our partners in the region.
▶ 0:35:27Were you disappointed by that vote last week and with over a hundred of uh, your parties, members of Congress, voting to strip all aid and support to Israel?
▶ 0:35:39I I would not have, had I been a member of Congress, would not have voted in support of that amendment. Okay.
▶ 0:35:43Thank you. I now recognize the ranking member for five minutes of questioning. I now recognize Mr. Keading for five minutes of question.
▶ 0:36:00Uh thank Mr. Sherman. Uh I have a meeting with the EU uh delegation at the same time. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask some questions. I just want to reflect and res and and really talk about a couple of comments that our witnesses uh mentioned in their opening testimony. and I thank you all for being here. Um, prior to October 7th in the horrific attack uh that occurred uh in Israel, uh there were talks that were going on.
▶ 0:36:30Uh I was privy to a lot of those talks. Uh that the nature of them were such that we were given that information in classified uh in a classified setting. So I can't get into the details but I can speak as m as ambassador Shapiro did in broad terms and maybe you can put more detail but um the discussions at that point for regional approach at normal normalization was something uh I had only dreamt about the the scope of it the expansiveness of it
▶ 0:37:01uh the the way it was both economically and security based uh would have been a real breakthrough and all All the information I got at that time was that uh this was very real and it could be very close.
▶ 0:37:16Uh so uh I'm concerned with a Saudi civil nuclear deal because we're losing our leverage I think with Saudi Arabia to uh take normalization with Israel uh and use that leverage to push them and I think if they do there'll be other Arab states that would follow uh forward.
▶ 0:37:40uh if you could you mentioned it uh quickly in your uh testimony but if you can expand on that that's a real concern I had because I think I still have hope that we can bring in this regional approach together in fact with private conversations I've had uh with uh high representatives from the Gulf and Arab states in the region uh they still privately hold hope that they could get back to some of that and in In fact, we're here
▶ 0:38:10talking about the Abraham Accords. I I would I would call it the Abraham Accord and steroids. Uh so if you could address, you mentioned that and didn't have a lot of time to expand on it.
▶ 0:38:20Sure. Uh thank you, Mr. Kitty, for the question. Uh indeed, uh right up until October 7th, uh negotiations were uh deep underway for uh the possibility of a breakthrough agreement that would move towards Saudi normalization of Israel. Uh indeed there was always going to be a Palestinian component of that. That was something the Saudis made clear at every stage uh that they wanted to see something that would be defined maybe as a credible pathway to a Palestinian state.
▶ 0:38:46By the way, that's language incorporated into President Trump's 20point plan for Gaza. Um as well as US security commitments for Saudi Arabia, certain Saudi security commitments to the United States and a civil nuclear agreement which has now been uh just announced. Uh so that occurred until October 7th for understandable reasons it was disrupted then but actually those negotiations continued all the way well into 2024 and I took part in them from the Department of Defense.
▶ 0:39:13Uh and that same structure of a deal uh was one we hoped we'd be able to advance if we had gotten to a hostage release and a ceasefire arrangement. Of course those didn't happen and so uh we ran out of time to do that. So uh what I still hope and I think you're absolutely right many in the region hope that that's still breakthrough can still happen because it will be transformative.
▶ 0:39:32I don't think there's any change in the Saudi determination to see that there be a Palestinian component that they would define as I don't speak for them but something in the lines of a credible pathway to a Palestinian state. That's always been their position. Uh now of course the structure of the deal would probably look different. For one thing, this important point of leverage, the civil nuclear agreement seems to have been provided without tying it to normalization. I think that may have been a mistake. There may be details behind the scenes of this diplomacy. We don't know.
▶ 0:40:00Uh but we've lost that card or played that card, I should say. uh but also in light of the Iran war, a war that many of our Gulf partners urged us not to engage in uh and now feel somewhat dragged into a very destructive uh war that's harming their economies, that's harming their their stability and are worried about what it means for long-term US commitments uh whether the same kind of security arrangements that were originally going to be part of that package are still relevant.
▶ 0:40:28So, I do think we do need to uh deepen a conversation with the Saudis about uh what a package for normalization with Israel looks like. It may not be the same kind of package we were working on in the Biden administration, but it will probably still be a package and I have no doubt they will continue to insist it have that Palestinian component.
▶ 0:40:45Yeah, I I feel nothing would have isolated Iran more uh than that. And with 13 seconds left, I can't do that. And I'm not going to abuse the courtesy that I was given to take out a turn. So, I yield back.
▶ 0:40:56I'll give you a little bit. Go. You wanna you wanna I'm okay with it. Is
▶ 0:41:00everyone else? Okay. I just wanted to follow up.
▶ 0:41:02Hey, I'm chair.
▶ 0:41:05All right. I need before you do that, I need to recognize probably one of the best friends I have in this world. It's my buddy Bruce Pearl sitting right there. I didn't see Bruce sitting right there. I was at his wedding. He has been with me when I've had some tough times and some good times and he's always been my buddy. I just want to recognize him.
▶ 0:41:23Do Do you happen to know where Mr. Pearl went to high school?
▶ 0:41:26I don't really care. probably up north where y'all speak with a funny accent. I don't know where
▶ 0:41:30you graduated from same high school I did. Sharon High School Eagles.
▶ 0:41:34Let me tell you a quick Bruce Pearl story. [laughter]
▶ 0:41:37Is it does this include our time or
▶ 0:41:39No, I'll give you some more time. But when he was a coach at UT, I always remembered this. I sitting down close in some friends Ray and Lucy and they were they were kind enough to let us sit down there and um one of the kids, the ball boys got hurt. a kid ran at one of the ball players and I remember coach was still coaching. The kid was down here and he hollered at his um his uh trainer. He said, "Get over and take care of that kid." And you know, he didn't miss a beat. And then took care of the kid and I thought, "Nobody's looking.
▶ 0:42:09That's that's the real the real deal." So anyway, sorry coach, didn't mean to embarrass you, brother.
▶ 0:42:15So I've got you're recognized, sir.
▶ 0:42:17I've got an entire EU delegation sitting in my office. So I am going to yield back. Thank you. And thanks for
▶ 0:42:23All right, brother. I guess
▶ 0:42:24my school soulmate. Thanks.
▶ 0:42:27All right. I'll recognize myself. Um, Ambassador Freriedman. Thank you, brother. And I was I believe I I visited you one time in Israel one time. Yes, you did.
▶ 0:42:37And I um I actually uh I took an orange drrele off your counter.
▶ 0:42:43You're the one.
▶ 0:42:44I am the one. Well, I'm from Tennessee, so I thought it was I thought it was a gift, but I guess it wasn't. But anyway, um, what do you what do you think it'd take for Saudi Arabia to join the Abraham Accords? I would make this general observation and then then focus it on Saudi. What is made what is said publicly in the Arab world and what is discussed privately are not necessarily the same thing.
▶ 0:43:13And um a lot of positions are taken by the Saudis, other countries as well that in private discussions um are not necessarily the case. Um these none of these countries are democracies. None of them have the kind of transparency that you would have in Israel, you would have in in the United States. Um every one of the Abraham Accords, if you think about it, is is a triangle with the United States at the apex of the triangle, Israel and an Arab country at the base.
▶ 0:43:41and every one of them is seeking the same goal but usually for different reasons and different terms. So it depends it depends what they want, what they need, what their perceptions are. Um on this point that was raised about nuclear a nuclear deal with Saudi Arabia without the Abraham Accords being rolled in without guard I'm assume someone would mention the fact that there aren't the kind of typical guard rails that exist in other I don't know that that's I just heard about it today.
▶ 0:44:08I don't know if that's the way this will end, what this will be. There's a lot of stagecraft. There's a lot of negotiations about how this will be surfaced to the public. And so I would say um uh it it it's a function of very close-knit discussions. Look, the Abraham Accords were we talked about it for a year and a half. Nobody knew about it. We announced it on August 15th. It was a shock to the whole world. That's the way
▶ 0:44:33it really was. I was when they did the signing at the White House. I always remembered that in the historical significance of it. All I could think was they had this incredibly good lemonade and they had these napkins with the presidential seal and I some buddies of mine the Jewish faith back in Knoxville. I took them all a napkin because that's all I could think to get.
▶ 0:44:51But I would say it's the I would say on the issue of Saudi Arabia, their primary concern is their own national security. They're in a very tough neighborhood. they're getting they're taking incoming right now from their kind of natural sworn enemy both um both geopolitically and and religiously their enemy and um that's what they're going to be concerned about. That's what they want and there there are ways to uh to solve that problem.
▶ 0:45:16Um they tend not to be discussed publicly but I I do believe it's it's doable and and I would say look I've said this before but this idea I I think Israel would love to normalize with Saudi Arabia. They're not going to commit suicide to do so. And I think they truly believe at this point that creating a Palestinian state, uh I think that most of them felt this way before October 7th, but post October 7th, this is a country that believes they have no margin of error and they're not going to do experiments or diplomatic experiments just to get the Saudis on board.
▶ 0:45:46And I think people need to realize that.
▶ 0:45:47What do you think we've learned from the first five years of this thing? Um I think what we've learned is that none none of the countries you know read Theodore Herzel's the Zionist idea and suddenly decided to become Zionist. That's not what this is about. These are really hard bargained practical national security. None of these countries are poor. You know they're not doing it for the money. Okay? Israel by the way is is the farthest thing from poor is no one is poor. No one needs the money. They need to be safe and they're in a very tough neighborhood.
▶ 0:46:17If you can solve people's national security issues, you can expand the Abraham Accords. If you can't, they're not going anywhere. And and one last thing, America needs to decide what where it stands on these issues. We have a country right now where Israel has become such a political football. And you've got, you know, on the extreme right and the extreme left. I mean, this is not I'm not, you know, limiting this criticism to to my friends on the left. It's everywhere. Okay? And these countries are watching this every single day and they're writing about every single day.
▶ 0:46:46Until we know who we are, where we stand as a country with regard to Israel, none of these, no one's going to take a gamble. No one's going to say, "Well, you know what? We'll make a deal for with Trump for two years and then, you know, we don't know what it's going to be. We'll have to re relitigate everything all over again." We have to take this issue and make it a a bipartisan predictable issue and that I think will bring uh a lot of good a lot of good outcomes.
▶ 0:47:09Real quick, Mr. Fredman, um, the war the the conflict with Iran has affected the relationship between the countries and the Abraham Accords. Would you say that's a fair statement?
▶ 0:47:20It's a fair statement. We're seeing the Israel deploy sensitive systems like the Iron Dome, like others that have developed with the United States to defend the UAE. So, a USIsrael system defending an Arab country. And that's pretty remarkable. We saw SenCom announced in January the establishment of a Middle East air defense cell in their headquarters in the region and we saw just a month later how important that cooperation was. So it's had I think largely positive effects in terms of the ability to cooperate.
▶ 0:47:50All right. Thank you. I've used up my aotted time. I will yield to my buddy Mr. Sherman.
▶ 0:47:56Thank you.
▶ 0:47:58You're recognized. After I ask questions, I'm going to need to go to the Asia subcommittee, which I'm also a member of, and my colleague from Illinois will take over as ranking member for a while. Uh uh Mr. uh Fredman, uh uh you allude to legislation carried by Senator Rubio.
▶ 0:48:17My favorite piece of legislation of Senate Senator Rubio, I wish he was related to Secretary Rubio, uh was the No Nuclear Weapons for Saudi Arabia Act, which he and I introduced in 2018, which required the gold standards of control to have uh uh including of course the additional protocol uh in order for us to have a nuclear cooperation agreement with Saudi Arabia.
▶ 0:48:44Um, so I'm hoping that Senator Rubio will come back to us and support that effort. Um, Mr. Freriedman, you point out that the Abrahamic Accords represent a victory of the moderates over the extremists, but those victories were completed in 2020. We haven't seen any further.
▶ 0:49:04And I think the reason for that is we've seen the moderates lose to the extremists in Israel, which now has a government with Ben Gir and Schmoltrich uh the apostles of settler violence.
▶ 0:49:18I think it's uh highly unlikely that we're going to uh that we're going to see any progress with Israel's Arabs neighbors uh so long as uh we see the continuation of settler violence and uh uh until we see progress toward a two-state solution.
▶ 0:49:39Uh, and I would point out uh that statehood does not require uh uh that you have uh weapons. Costa Rica does not have an army. It is a state. Um the uh um I think that the country uh Mr. Freeman, you say that the countries that might enter the Abrahamic Accords don't regard the war as a disaster.
▶ 0:50:07Right now, no country is interested in joining the Abrahamic Accords because the Abraham Accords because of the extremists in the Israeli government. Uh but we've heard from the Gulf Cooperation Council again and again uh that they uh regard this war as a disaster. What they're saying even more privately, I don't know.
▶ 0:50:28Um, so, uh, Ambassador Shapiro, we've heard that talk of a Palestinian state in the halls of Congress is widely out of touch with realities on the ground, uh, but is an Israel that renounces a u a Palestinian state as even a possibility, wildly out of touch with political realities in the Arab world.
▶ 0:50:54uh if Crown Prince Ben Salmon were to normalize relations and and enter into the positive relationship that the Abraham Accords call for uh without any uh movement toward a two-state solution, without even any punishment of those guilty of settler violence. Um would that pose a threat to him continuing to serve as the leader of Saudi Arabia? Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:51:25Thank you, Mr. Sherman. Uh, I don't think it's really a possibility he's going to do it. So, I don't think it poses a threat in that sense. U the, uh, it is true, of course, as you stated, that uh, the idea of a Palestinian state being creative is uh, not immediately on the agenda, not something most Israelis feel ready to take a risk on.
▶ 0:51:45uh any change toward that goal which I repeat is part of uh point 19 of President points President Trump's 20point plan the credible pathway to that Palestinian state requires reform of the Palestinian Authority obviously requires removal of Hamas from power in Gaza uh but uh it is necessary to be on the table and there to be directionality toward that uh if we do hope to see further expansion of these accords and particularly the Saudis have been very clear I'll just mention that uh the person who probably spent more time
▶ 0:52:15than anybody uh devoted to this effort to Saudi Israeli normalization with the late Senator Lindsey Graham who are all remembering and honoring uh this this at this time. Uh and he said very very clearly there was no way based on his private conversations with the crown prince uh and I can attest to those as well uh that this would be a possibility for him to take forward without that credible pathway to a Palestinian state also being part of it.
▶ 0:52:40and the UAE agreed to the Abraham Accords and received a uh a promise that uh the West Bank would not be annexed. Uh what happens to the UAE's participation in the Abrahamic Accords if there's I I if uh there's continued discussion at the highest levels in the Israeli government of violating uh that
▶ 0:53:05Congressman, that was that wasn't the that wasn't the deal. Well, it's the deal that uh
▶ 0:53:10I negotiated the deal. That wasn't the
▶ 0:53:12Uh it's the deal that I've heard from them, if not from you.
▶ 0:53:15I'm happy to share with you.
▶ 0:53:16So, in any case, uh would any other country be interested in the Abrahamic uh in the Abraham Accords if they see Israel at least appear to uh uh renounce annexation and then continue to move
▶ 0:53:30Sure. What was announced at the time of the Abraham Accords was a moratorum on move progress toward annexation something like four years. There were different reports on it. Ambassador Freriedman obviously was deeply involved in it. Uh but it was definitely an element in uh the UAE's decision to go forward with those accords that was laid out publicly by the UAE ambassador to Israel to Washington in an op-ed in an Israeli newspaper. So it's not wouldn't be a violation of that agreement if it had a time limit on it.
▶ 0:53:59However, the UAE has spoken out very forcefully against moves towards annexation, against settler violence. Uh and again I think in the atmosphere created by uh the extremists within the Israeli government you mentioned and some of those activities that seem to close all doors to a future Palestinian state and seem to raise tensions in the West Bank and expand settlements and permit settlement violence. I don't think it's an atmosphere in which other countries will come forward. Thank you
▶ 0:54:28represent Latimer.
▶ 0:54:33Thank you. Um, represent Schneider.
▶ 0:54:40Uh, thank you, um, Mr. Chairman, and I thank the witnesses, uh, for being here. I consider one of my most important roles in Congress. One of the things I'm most proud of is being a co-founder and co-chair of the bipartisan biccameal Abraham Accords Caucus joined by my colleague uh Deborah Wasman Schultz, Craig Goldman, and Anne Wagner in the house. Just one example of the caucus working together.
▶ 0:55:07We introduced the defend act in 2022 to develop a strategy for Abraham McCord's countries and uh others to combat Iranian aggression with a unified air defense. We're seeing benefits of fruits of that today. that law signed into or that bill signed into law in December of 2022. So at the risk of coming off pedantic uh I want to start with an observation.
▶ 0:55:30As long as some of our most important leaders ambassadors ambassador continue to play petty domestic politics when we stand united committed to a strong USIsrael relationship. Israel security is a Jewish democratic state and peace for the region that benefits and includes Israel integrated into the entire Middle East. It's the modern equivalent of Hill and Schmai which most won't understand but I know you do.
▶ 0:55:59We risk squandering the opportunity to help lead a region lead the region of the Middle East critical United States. we risk squandering the opportunity to lead them to a more stable, secure, prosperous, and ultimately more peaceful future.
▶ 0:56:14We have to be united in our commitment to that vision of regional integration, the vision of a safe and secure Jewish democratic state of Israel, living collectively integrated with the 21 Arabs uh the states of the Arab League and the Palestinians and their to self-determination and peace with Israel. That's what we're fighting for and as long as we're fighting with each other, we're not helping those who are moving towards peace.
▶ 0:56:42So, I I'm sorry for lecturing, but I felt it was important to say I often talk about how I lose sleep thinking about Iran as a nuclear country. Scares me to death. But I say I've been able to go back to sleep because of the Abraham Accords. and Ambassador, thank you for your leadership in helping achieve them. The agreements were the first peace agreement between Israel and an Arab country since 1994.
▶ 0:57:12I remember that handshake on the lawn in September of and I got to be there in September of to celebrate a peace agreement between Israel and an Arab country. Unfortunately, Hamas did not share the optimism that we all held that day.
▶ 0:57:33As documents found in their tunnel network attest, the Iranbacked terrorists saw normalization as an existential threat to their cause of spreading terror and chaos across the region of defeating Israel and eliminating any Jewish presence in the Middle East. And they countered the progress towards peace that was coming so close to normalization with the Saudis. They countered that with the barbaric massacre, rapes, kidnap.
▶ 0:58:00They invaded Israel with genocidal Since that attack, things have gone from bad to worse for Israelis, Palestinians, residents of the Gulf, and the Iranian people, in fact, and of course, a dent to our power and prestige. There remain a few bright spots.
▶ 0:58:17As were noted, Syria is no longer ruled by The trilateral framework between Lebanon, Israel, led by the United States offers hope and potentially a model that will lift up the entire And we've seen how the Abraham Accords have held up better than imagined. Ambassador Friedman, as you noted, through three years of war, those accords have held fast and I believe continue to be strong.
▶ 0:58:47Gas is flowing between Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and our partners have demonstrated incredible interop interoperability repelling Iran's drone and missile attacks. Mr. Fredman, the five points you laid out, I think are things we all need to hold on to. I have the M East uh Mediterranean gate, Eastern Mediterranean Gateway promoting IMC.
▶ 0:59:08We need to connect and continue the people-to-people programs that bring people face to face so they can know each other before they're willing to make the sacrifices to live together in Ambassador Shapiro, you led on the Abraham Accords and thank you for all your leadership and have been a great What can Congress do to support the accords in the 12 seconds we have left?
▶ 0:59:34So maybe I'll stop there.
▶ 0:59:35No, I'll give you What can Congress do? Maybe just one sentence from each of you. What do we need to do?
▶ 0:59:40Well, thank you, Mr. Schneider. Uh I was going to mention earlier ran out of time to uh that the bipartisan Congressional Abraham Accords Caucus is a critical element. Its very existence is to demonstrate that there is a widespread and broad-based uh bipartisan commitment to this. That's a crucial message to countries already in the accords and countries considering joining it. Uh there's a wide range we could discuss it uh at length of uh people-to-people programs of economic programs of security related uh programs.
▶ 1:00:10You've already highlighted several of them uh that the I hope a uh an even more active uh congressional caucus can engage in and do so in partnership with private sector and nonprofit organizations that are also deeply committed to this. at the Atlantic Council. We are uh we have been uh doing such convenings and leading on uh promoting Middle East regional integration since 2021 and uh intend to continue to do so. So I'll I'll be happy to speak with you and your team later about a long list of
▶ 1:00:38Hey, Mr. Fredman, let me ask you one thing and and Ambassador Freeman, one thing that we we need to focus on.
▶ 1:00:44In my remarks, I noticed I noted five different areas. I would say turning the IMC vision into reality. Moving from rhetoric to reality and then the people-to-people component because business people economic interests will find a way together. Security defense is always easier. The most difficult thing following three years of war I think is the people-to people aspect and Congress can play a major role in helping bring entrepreneurs, youth, innovators, researchers, scientists together.
▶ 1:01:13Well, I'm not directing this at you or anybody who's sitting here, but I would say Congress support Israel. Uh 104 103 votes, 103 Democrats, one misguided Republican uh against Israel. Uh is spoke volumes and was heard loud and clear by every one of our Arab friends. If Arab countries think that Israel is losing American support, throw the Abraham Hammer Accords out the window. You'll never get another one. So let's work together to bring that support to back back. It has to be bipartisan.
▶ 1:01:43It has to be ironclad. I yield back.
▶ 1:01:46Thank you. I yield to my good friend, Miss Washerman Schultz.
▶ 1:01:49Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is good to see you, Ambassador Freriedman, and Ambassador Shapiro, Mr. Friedman. Um, I had the privilege of leading trips to Israel with members of Congress on by in a bipartisan way um when when you were both ambassadors and uh appreciate the opportunity to talk with you today about the Abraham Accords. As my co-chair um Mr.
▶ 1:02:10Schneider mentioned, I am also a co-chair of the bipartisan Abraham Accords Caucus and it really is a critical vehicle for us to be able to continue dialogue with these countries and uh and with Israel. Um, I want to take you back to uh 2023 uh when I was part of a bipartisan congressional delegation to the Middle East focused on the state of the Abraham Abraham Accords and our goal in part was to advance normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
▶ 1:02:40Um I remember our delegation met with Crown Prince Ben Solomon. Um and we all left that meeting which was very late at night um by the time it wrapped up with optimism brimming with optimism that we were on the verge of a That meeting was the night of October So since then the accords have borne as much pressure as they could possibly bear.
▶ 1:03:08Um, I I have trouble even, you know, getting through this without getting choked up um with the horrors of October 7th, the tragedy in Gaza, and now the unauthorized strategic disaster of a war with Iran. Um, Gaza needs to be freed from Hamas. I mean, that is very clear. I want to just make sure that it is clear where I stand. Um, they need to disarm.
▶ 1:03:33they need to commit to normalization and you know a real process to rebuild and that can't happen if they are still weaponized. Um, what I've heard from Gulf Arab leaders since this war started is that they don't see the uni unity of purpose with the Trump administration or with the Netanyahu government and they don't see enough progress toward a political horizon as you mentioned amass Ambassador Shapiro for the Palestinians and that is clearly an essential component
▶ 1:04:04of being able to advance normalization with other countries and bring other agreements forward. Um, I'm it's clear we're further away from that likelihood than we were on October 6th from seeing this vision through and I believe strongly in the Abraham Accords and I believe in their expansion. But we can't do that at the expense of forgetting about the countries that have already bought in in progress in the countries that we've already made progress in and that we already have agreements is critical.
▶ 1:04:34So if we invest in expanding the Abraham Accords rather than seeing through integration and improvement with current members, are we abandoning the core mission? And and what are the risks of shifting our focus elsewhere when Gulf nations are losing faith in our credibility? And I'd love both ambassadors to to answer that question. Ambassador Shapiro,
▶ 1:04:55thank you. Uh, Congresswoman, uh, there's, uh, you're right that we are further away from those breakthroughs, uh, on, uh, than we were on October 6th. We even had opportunities, uh, even during the war uh, as negotiations persisted with the Saudis uh, for a breakthrough that would be connected to an end of war, a hostage deal, a ceasefire, and so forth.
▶ 1:05:20Candidly, I was not optimistic that the current Israeli government was going to be able to meet its part of finding the language to express that uh Palestinian horizon that you mentioned. Uh if it had been possible, it might have required a change of coalition in Israel or even an election.
▶ 1:05:36Um but uh there is no question uh I hear it all the time from Gulf partners and from other uh Arab partners in the region uh a belief that there's something still possible in the region and that they want to be part of that coalition uh of US aligned moderate nations uh building a better future through interdependence through economic cooperation through security cooperation.
▶ 1:05:59the the the Iran war has thrown a major uh curveball into this undertaking uh because every country is now focused on its primary security requirements. Uh every country has to ask the question, can they count on US security guarantees given that we essentially drag them in to a conflict they did not want to be part of. Uh there are questions about whether Israel is a destabilizing actor. Again, something one hears from Gulf nations all the time.
▶ 1:06:28So I don't think this is a moment uh when those breakthroughs are likely but if and when this war ends and it needs to end as soon as possible. It should never have been undertaken. Uh that's the work uh that needs to be uh resumed. Uh a special envoy focused exclusively on expanding uh these agreements I think would be a very important tool to do so.
▶ 1:06:47Thank you V.
▶ 1:06:49Thank you Congresswoman. Um there is uh there's no question there this is a difficult time to be thinking about expanding it. Um what what I would suggest though is that um and I know Congress, you've got 75 other things on your plate.
▶ 1:07:04Maybe I'm understating it, so I don't mean to suggest that there's there's more work to do on this, but in in hearing, for example, um Congressman Schneider talking about not I'm sorry, uh Sherman speaking about settler violence as if it's this thing that exists out there which is dragging everybody down. Um, you know, we're being flooded by a title wave uh of anti-Israel media.
▶ 1:07:28Uh, maybe it comes from China, maybe it comes fromQatar, maybe it comes from maybe it's homegrown, but there's there's a lot of news out there which isn't right. And and just on that one point, you know, we talk about um u a dog bites man story and a man bites dog story. You know, nobody reports about a dog biting a man because it's not interesting. It happens all the time. When a man bites a dog, that's a story, right? And settler violence is man bites dog because it doesn't happen that often, but it's so prone with emotion and anger that it gets the headlines. I'm there all the time.
▶ 1:07:57I mean, I I live this I live this
▶ 1:08:00We have to stop settler violence. Of course, we do. But let's let's try to stop the violence that that causes the settler violence, which is on a magnitude of 10 times. So, I I think, you know, it's important just to get our arms around the facts um and not be um driven by by the again the title wave of anti-semitic, anti-Israel, uh incorrect media which is just making very very hard to make good decision.
▶ 1:08:24I'm going to reclaim my time because we're getting a little far field of the question I asked and I want to the chairman's going to indulge me for another question, but I appreciate your your feedback. Um, Ambassador Shapiro, another concern that I have is that the current scope of the Abraham Accords is is far too focused on the grass tops, on the elites, senior officials, major businesses, tech investors, weapon sales, and not nearly enough on the grassroots, the the rank and file people on the ground.
▶ 1:08:53And when I have talked with each of the Abraham Accord country leaders and asked them, you know, and even for example, you know, we would obviously all have preferred more robust statements following October 7th from Abraham Accord countries.
▶ 1:09:09Um and when I asked many of those leaders why even though they obviously did condemn the attacks by Hamas they said that there is not the buyin the same kind of buyin on the ground in those Abraham court countries as there is among the elites ordinary people in the region this is not these accords have not permeated so the Trump administration just for example has drained the bipartisan Nita Middle East partnership of peace act or the MEPA
▶ 1:09:39that that made those kinds of investments in Israeli and Palestinian civil society possible. Um, including collaborative projects that brought Israelis and Palestinians together. And there there's there's so much more that we need to do to push down that interaction and engagement so that there's buyin that frees up those leaders to integrate their societies even more. And the Trump administration also made substantial cuts to ef to efforts to modernize education in the Middle East and North Africa.
▶ 1:10:08Not only to remove anti-semitism from curricula, but to add in Holocaust education. So, Ambassador Shapiro, is it possible for the Amre Accords to live up to their intended goals without those investments in building mutual understanding and normalization at the grassroots level? And what can we do to advance that goal?
▶ 1:10:26Thank you, Congresswoman. Uh you're correct that uh the initial agreements were uh between governments. There's been a tremendous amount of progress uh in integration between security professionals, militaries, intelligence have been part of that. Um but not nearly enough penetration to the people-to-people level. Now this is a difficult environment to do that. that I highlighted in my testimony before you arrived uh that Arab publics are affected by what they've seen in terms of devastation in Gaza and the suffering of Palestinian civilians.
▶ 1:10:56Uh we need time to move past that. We need a better situation in Gaza to move past that. So that means implementation of the 20point plan. Uh that's going to help those leaders who want to bring their their publics along to do that. But as far as the initiatives go, this was something we were very focused on in the B administration with the negative form. And I'm sorry to say that the negative forum seems to have uh fallen off the table. It should have I think survived the change of administrations both in this country and in Israel.
▶ 1:11:25Does not seem to have much interest perhaps because of who the uh initiators were uh by uh this administration or by the current Israeli government. But that was an excellent opportunity uh with working groups on energy, on water, on education and coexistence, on health, on uh on uh v various other fields uh that were drawing in private sector elements that were drawing in hospitals, universities, uh startup companies uh and getting a much deeper engagement.
▶ 1:11:54We at the Atlantic Council at the time were supporting that effort with conferences that we were convening as well uh with the same uh cross-section of all those societies. uh and you could see in those 2020 2022 2022 period uh those roots starting to to to take those uh connections starting to take root uh and uh giving more ballots to the leaders to go even further on deepening these relationships also to make this a club other countries wanted to join other societies wanted to join.
▶ 1:12:24So uh that's uh that that's why that regional aspect of it rather than a series of bipartisan agreements and kind of a hub and spoke model uh really is important. The negative forum gave us that. I hope we will resume some of that work uh again as this war winds down and as we get Gaza on the path toward recovery from the terrible war it's been through.
▶ 1:12:44Thank you. We just have to double down on the agreements we have so that we can really make sure that they're long lasting. Thank you. Yield back the time I don't have. That's all right. Uh, represent Kane, you're recognized.
▶ 1:12:59Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our distinguished witnesses being here today. The Abraham Accords have already demonstrated their diplomatic and their security value, but their long-term success will ultimately depend on whether they deliver tangible economic benefits for citizens of the region and create new opportunities for for cooperation. Congress considers on how to build the on the accords.
▶ 1:13:27It is important to examine what role the United States can play in advancing trade, investment, connectivity, and shared prosperity among participating countries. Ambassador Freriedman, as Congress concerns on how to build on the accords, is important to examine what role the United States can play in advancing trade, investment, connectivity, and shared prosper prosperity among participating countries.
▶ 1:13:52Can you discuss how the US government is currently promoting trade and investment, regional economic integration among the Abraham Accord countries and what how how should we measure whether that those efforts are being successful or not?
▶ 1:14:05Well, I think the efforts are demonstrabably not successful because we see the uh we see a world there that's a flame and um doesn't look anything like what we would we would like it to look like. Um I I would suggest congressman that um we we do have an overblown sense of our ability to change the facts on the ground.
▶ 1:14:26Um when when the United States enters or western wealthy western countries enter this region um most of the money usually gets spent in ways that are unaccounted for uh that don't go to the right people. Um sometimes we're looked at like a turkey on Thanksgiving. you know, someone just gonna take we'll take your money and then we'll there needs to be an adult in the room in that area. Um I would suggest that the only real adult in the room.
▶ 1:14:51The only country that has a track record of empowering an Arab minority is the state of Israel. The the Christian uh Arabs in Israel have the highest standard of living in Israel, even more so than the Jews. The Arabs in Israel have the highest standard of living in the Middle East. If we're going to let somebody own this, it should be a real country. It should be an adult country. It should be a democracy. and and that's a that's a path where the money will be spent, every penny will be accounted for and we can see the results of our efforts. I I spent a lot of time with US aid. You know, they're good people. They mean well.
▶ 1:15:22Spent a lot I've seen a lot of what happened with the the efforts to um to uh mitigate the the tragedy in Gaza. Um without Israel, which is the only country on the ground that we can rely upon, um it needs it's it's not going to be successful. So, I think we need to work through Israel, not around
▶ 1:15:38Okay. Thank you. And Mr. Fredman. Recent Iranian aggression in the Strait of Hormuz has underscored the importance of secure, resilient trade and and connectivity corridors that promote regional stability ensured by barrier with growing interest in the Middle East Europe economic corridor as a means of diversifying global supply chains and reducing reliance on vulnerable choke points.
▶ 1:16:05How can the US ensure that IMECH develops an inclusive multi-oute uh initiative anchored in the partnerships forged to the Abraham
▶ 1:16:15Thank you, Congressman. And I'd also like to acknowledge the role of the Abraham courts caucus, the bipartisan caucus has been incredibly important and positive in terms of promoting the accordance. If we look at how we make IMC into a reality, there are geopolitical challenges. For example, even today Saudi Arabia will not allow Isra good goods destined for Israel originating in Israel to cross its territory even in trucks even if you don't have a railroad. Now in July 2022 when Saudi Arabia allowed Israeli overflights in its territory.
▶ 1:16:44It didn't say it's because we want to normalize with Israel. It said we want to be a global logistics hub and the Chicago convention etc. I think we could get to a point even as been discussed where Saudi Arabia is not with the conditions may not be right for full normalization but to for Saudi Arabia for its own interest. It wants to be a global logistics and transportation hub to allow goods destined for Hyifa coming from Hifa port through its territory.
▶ 1:17:06Jordan as well there are currently no plans or or no no practical plans for a rail line connecting Saudi Arabia on one side and Israel on the other side. And I think the United States perhaps through the DFC, other mechanisms can help create that infrastructure would be good for American companies, for American technologies, and would be good for making IMC a reality.
▶ 1:17:27And then what other alternatives do you think we can have to make sure that Israel is is essential rather than sidelined? There other things that Congress can do.
▶ 1:17:38I think that Israel needs to be the the most successful uh cooperation on the scientific level. Innovation has been three-way cooperation. So between Israeli, American and Emirati entrepreneurs, between Israeli Bahraini and German youth as an example at the MSCAV Institute which I direct, we've hosted numerous Moroccan delegations who've been brought together with American counterparts.
▶ 1:18:00So creating those three-way cooperation I think would be essential because you know the ne the media in the region is largely negative towards Israel and decades of negative of education um which is starting to change but it's still far from changing has created a baseline of negative views and I think America and Congress can be critical in that evolution towards accepting Israel as a authentic part of the region and a potential partner for all these countries. Thank you to the panel for your your insights.
▶ 1:18:30Appreciate that your time and take care. Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 1:18:33Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:18:34Thank you, Mr. Keane. I guess we'll start over again if it's okay if I go next. Is that all right? Is that acceptable? I don't see any other Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry. Meeks. He's already chairman. Let me recognize you and then I we'll start again. Sorry, Chairman.
▶ 1:18:48Thank you. Uh, and thank you to the witnesses uh, for being here. And I wanted to make sure that I was here because uh, really what I've been focusing on is to have a change in the Middle East, to have a peace in the Middle East where Israel could live side by side with its neighbors, uh, the Palestinians and Gaza, the West Bank and the Arab states.
▶ 1:19:10uh and that's where I saw uh up to October the 7th that real possib real change was taking place because one of the things that I saw in you know post uh what the UN when it created the uh Jewish state of Israel uh that it was the many of these Arab states that were trying to take the property that had been designated as a Jewish uh state of Israel uh and uh so there was fights and wars that were going on between that because it was trying to say they Israel
▶ 1:19:41did not have the right to exist. In fact, when I first visited Israel uh back in the early uh uh 90s uh and I would talk to some of the Arab states, they said Israel did not have the right to exist. Uh and so therefore, you cannot have peace. If one side is trying to negotiate peace and the other side says you don't have the right to exist, there can't be any peace.
▶ 1:20:02The major change for me came though when we start talking about uh when I start seeing some of the Arab countries saying Israel had the right to exist and we wanted to to live with our neighbors. Uh and we want to make sure that we you know exchange diplomatic uh uh uh uh personnel and and try to figure out how to do the best of both things. Uh and Saudi Arabia was talking about moving forward before October the 7th etc.
▶ 1:20:30One of the things that Saudi Arabia was indicating was though they wanted to make sure that it was indeed a two-state solution that there was a Palestinian state that was going to be created and that the Palestinians were treated with respect and move forward so that we can you know get certain things done. Um so that you know I think changed the paradigm of what we where we needed to go.
▶ 1:20:51uh and so um I believe that a successful normalization requires perspectives perspective partners to believe that also Israel will act as a stable and reliable regional partner. Uh Israel expects the same from its pers perspective. So it's got to be from both sides as I see that.
▶ 1:21:12Uh and at the same time now we have the war in Iran uh and continuing developments in Gaza and the West Bank have intensified concerns across the region about Israel's broader strategic direction. So brings me to the question of you know how have post October 7 events uh in Gaza, the West Bank and Iran impacted Israel's credibility with Arab and Muslim countries considering closer diplomatic or security ties. I guess I'll go to you, Ambassador Shapiro.
▶ 1:21:42Thank you, Ranking Member Meeks. Um, I was present uh with numerous conversations with Arab states uh post October 7th. Uh they raised serious concerns about civilian casualties in Gaza. Of course, they raised concerns as they continue to raise today about uh various Israeli conduct on the West Bank as well.
▶ 1:22:03But uh nearly uh uniformly uh especially among Gulf partners uh they all said that they wanted to get past this war uh and get back on the road toward expanding regional integration. They put on the table proposals, not perfect proposals, but proposals that would help end the war and move smartly out in that direction. Uh they see that still as their strategic interest.
▶ 1:22:27and they see that as a strategic interest because it includes them in a coalition of US aligned partners focused on common adversaries and building interdependence and and security and prosperity together. However, uh they have also raised concerns.
▶ 1:22:42For example, the Israeli strike uh on Hamas leaders in Doha, Qatar uh and of course this current war that most Gulf states councled against uh but saw the United States and Israel undertake uh and raised the question about whether they are dealing with Israel and with the United States frankly uh that is also a destabilizing actor that shakes the foundations of that belief that they had told us they are committed to and I believe they do still want to be part of uh that there's a coalition of Israeli,
▶ 1:23:12Arab uh and American partners obviously with progress toward an Israeli Palestinian resolution as well that they want to be part of.
▶ 1:23:21So how does this help with reference to you know I've heard in fact of uh in some meeting that I've had with Prime Minister Netanyahu uh when uh he says basically he doesn't believe in a two-state solution. Uh so how can further normalization proceed uh when you have regional leaders believe that Israel is unwilling to pursue a viable two-state solution or restrain his actions that uh deeply uh instable the whole situation. How does how does that
▶ 1:23:51It's a divide of course it's a divide not just with to the prime minister the current prime minister. It's broadly felt across Israeli society. Uh still traumatized by the events of October 7th that a Palestinian state would be very risky, but uh it is part of the president's 20point plan for Gaza that there should be a credible pathway to a Palestinian state. As I quoted uh Senator Graham, the late Senator Graham a few minutes ago.
▶ 1:24:14uh he reminded us uh last fall uh there really is no future for Israel as both a Jewish and a democratic state without some uh agreed and negotiated separation between Israelis and Palestinians in which both sides can have self-determination and peace living alongside each other. Um and uh it is definitely a factor.
▶ 1:24:33Uh there's probably no chance and that the Saudis have been clear on this publicly, but they've also been clear on this privately uh that they could get as far as full normalization with Israel, which I believe the crown prince has made clear he still views as the best course for his country and for the region as a whole unless there is a component for the Palestinians that includes a credible pathway. Is that going to take time? It definitely is. Is it going to take reform of the Palestinian Authority? For sure. or is it going to take removal of Hamas from power in Gaza? Absolutely.
▶ 1:25:03But uh that is a critical element if we want to see the full realization of this of this
▶ 1:25:09I mean it's a well asked question. So what diplomatic structure and personnel would actually be required to convert any post postwar opening uh into a durable normalization agreements? Um, ranking member Meeks, uh, other members of this panel and I have agreed, uh, that the the, uh, special envoy for Abraham Accords that was passed by the as the Lawler Torres uh, legislation and included in the 2024 NDAA uh, is an important
▶ 1:25:39and still unfilled position uh, to provide a very senior official uh, authority and uh, broad uh, focus on a range of countries. countries that could be part of this uh expansion of regional integration. Uh it has not yet been appointed, not the B administration, not in the Trump administration. I think it's overdue. I think the officials tasked with much of our Middle East diplomacy, particularly Mr. Wickoff and Mr. Kushner, are spread far too thin.
▶ 1:26:07They have far too much on their plate with all the various responsibilities they've been given to give this the kind of focus they need. I'd add I believe we are lacking ambassadors in many of the Middle East capitals certainly in Riyad in Abu Dhabi uh in Doha and a number of other key Middle East capitals as well as we've uh uh we've uh degraded our broader diplomatic infrastructure there by uh the removal the reductions in force at the state department that have removed many serious regional
▶ 1:26:38experts uh from their jobs as well. So we need we need active diplomats. We need senior diplomats. We need ambassadors in country. We need a special envoy. And we need to sustain a focus on the kinds of diplomatic and uh assistance programs that uh Congressman Wasserman Schultz was referencing.
▶ 1:26:56those that do people to people as well as security ties, those that promote business, those that promote economic connections like IMC, those that uh promote people to people even between Israelis and Palestinians such as the MEPA program which uh is still awaiting uh obligation under the fiscal year 26 uh funding that Congress passed. So there's many many tools available and they're not all being used to be honest. Now we still have to focus on the immediate diplomacy needs.
▶ 1:27:24end the war as soon as possible, get Gaza on a path towards fulfilling and implementing the 20point plan, but all those other tools should be being activated even now while we wait to get to that moment.
▶ 1:27:35Thank you. And I'm I'm going I'm yielding back. I want to put something into the record, but I also hope that we get into Mr. Tim Chairman, you know, because recently uh and I would love to hear if it comes up between all three. Uh, how do you square reports that the United States may permit Saudi Arabia to enrich uranium domestically?
▶ 1:27:54How about this available?
▶ 1:27:56We're gonna have to adjourn. And I want you to get
▶ 1:27:57I want to submit uh for the record though because I'm concerned about what's taking place on the West Bank. Uh, and here's an article that took place that says that the UAE warns the White House that Israel annexations uh could unravel the uh Abraham Accords. So there's real concerns by those that are part of the Abraham Accords now that if something is not done or changed in the West Bank, it could in fact unravel uh the uh the the conversations that's taking place in regard to
▶ 1:28:25chair will allow it. We we get we're going to have to adjourn, but you want to ask a question. Why don't we allow each well uh maybe can you do it in two minutes a piece? You think I know it's tough for diplomats to do that, but why don't we just you had that question? Can we start with Mr. Freriedman?
▶ 1:28:42go ahead brother. Thank you. Thank you. Uh Mr. Mr. Chairman, um look, I I don't think this is about uh Netanyahu. I mean, there'll be an election in three months. The Israelis will elect whoever they want to elect, but um I I would urge uh the members of Congress to put themselves in the shoes of a typical Israeli. I I was in Israel the entire
▶ 1:29:05but the question was about Saudi Arabia.
▶ 1:29:07I was asked to give a two-minute
▶ 1:29:09Oh, sum. That's what you're doing.
▶ 1:29:11Yeah. Everybody gets So, so I would ask people to put themselves in the shoes of of a typical Israeli. Uh Netanyahu is a politician. He has to answer to the will of of the Israeli population. This is not about him. This is about the people of Israel. And um having lived through the entire war uh the 40-day war between Israel and Iran. Uh having watched every night uh parents take their children in the middle of the night at 3:00 a.m. I was blessed with having my own shelter in my house, but um most people don't.
▶ 1:29:41So, you wake up your kids at 3:00 in the morning. You run down the street. You try to find a shelter. Sometimes they're already filled. You run down to the next shelter. You have 90 seconds to get to a shelter or else you're risking your life and your children's lives. And um and you know, people in Congress would like to say, well, you know, you should you should really get over all that and just, you know, make peace with the Palestinians who have been shooting rockets at you for 20 years and and ignore all that stuff.
▶ 1:30:06Uh even though the Palestinians uh acted on October 7th, cheered October 7th on the West Bank, they were cheering October 7th. The Palestinian Authority continues to have the pay for slave program where they pay terrorists to kill Jews. Just ignore all that stuff and just, you know, come by uh live in peace. Uh and at the same time, give up every single part of your country that makes you a Jewish state. Give up Hebron, give up Schllem, give up Bethlehem, give up Jerusalem, give up all these places. Okay?
▶ 1:30:35So you you know all everything makes you Jewish is in the land the Palestinians want because by the way they want to destroy every connection the Jewish people have to this land. So just do it and and now you blame Netanyahu for not agreeing to it. I got to tell you who whoever wins this election is going to be exactly of the same view. So we need a realistic view about the state of Israel. And if it means you can't support Israel, you won't support Israel. But Israel will will will survive this as best it can. It's not going to commit suicide for the benefit of a piece of paper. Mr.
▶ 1:31:06Thank you. I live in Jerusalem with my four children about 20 minutes from Ramla and I would like nothing more for them to grow up in a world where they could travel freely to Raala or to Beirut or to Damascus and the same way we're welcomed warmly in Dubai or in Marrakesh or even in Kartum when I visited there before the civil war to have an exchanges with the Palestinian neighbors. After October 7th, Ambassador Shapiro referred it as trauma. I don't think it's trauma.
▶ 1:31:34It's really looking reality straight in the face. And according to the best Palestinian polling that's available, 53% of Palestinians think that Kamas's decision to launch October 7th attack was a good idea. And Kamas is far more popular than other factions in the West Bank. Again, according to Palestinian polling. So, I think, do we want to get to a peaceful solution with the Palestinians? I think we do. Do we have to look at reality?
▶ 1:31:58the fact that Hamas still fully controls Gaza, the fact that there is no no other force other than the IDF that will actually go and do the difficult and dangerous work of disarming Hamas and that if we pull back, Hamas will be able to easily shoot into Israeli communities once again. I think we have to recognize the realities and look to expand peace both with the Palestinians and in the region while looking reality straight in the face.
▶ 1:32:22Thank you, brother. They're calling boats. Could you go ahead?
▶ 1:32:24Sure. Uh I had my say earlier, Mr. M. So, I'll just uh try to address your brief question on uh the Saudi nuclear deal. Of course, there's much we don't know. It's only only been announced in the last several hours. Uh it does uh undertake uh a joint study between the United States and Saudi Arabia after which uh Saudi Arabia could be allowed to enrich uranium on its soil. Uh exactly what the safeguards would be for that is not entirely clear.
▶ 1:32:50Does not appear to include Saudi Arabia signing the additional protocol of the non-prololiferation treaty. Um so if there are other safeguards involved I think that's something Congress should very give very close uh attention to. Uh there is danger of course uh if Saudi Arabia gets that capability uh that there is a kind of race to the bottom uh as other countries Turkey Egypt uh seek to match a Saudi capability and of course we know we are holding to a position that Iran uh quite reasonably given its
▶ 1:33:21history should not have any enrichment on its soil. maybe that position will be somewhat undercut at least in terms of international support by this deal. So there's a lot that's not known and needs to be studied carefully about it.
▶ 1:33:34I do think uh there's a uh question mark about why the president felt he should move forward with this deal now at in previous negotiations this idea of a civil nuclear uh cooperation agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia which was something President Biden was working on and might have even allowed uh at some point a US supervised or even controlled uh enrichment capability on Saudi soil.
▶ 1:34:00but why it's being moved forward as kind of a standalone deal. Again, maybe there are things we don't know, but it is not connected to, as it was in the Biden time, a clear decision by Saudi Arabia to normalize their relations with Israel, have the Palestinian component be built into that, have other US and Saudi security commitments made to one another.
▶ 1:34:20And so I'm concerned that it has removed a card of leverage and an important incentive from our hands to try to bring the Saudis along to where we want them to get to ultimately, which is full normalization with Israel.
▶ 1:34:32Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:34:34Can I request just one quick moment to submit an article for the record? It is from the Times of Israel. I'll get you a print out. March 19th, 2026. I'll read the first paragraph. IDF Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Al Zamir, on Wednesday issued sharp condemnation of settler violence, calling attacks against Palestinian civilians and soldiers in the West Bank quote, "morally and ethically unacceptable," end quote, and a major strategic impend impediment. But Ambassador, I think you make an important point. It's too broad to call it settler violence.
▶ 1:35:04vast majority of settlers are not involved in these attacks, but the many people that are involved and they're not all settlers are a threat to Israel security and the prospects for peace. I
▶ 1:35:14I agree completely.
▶ 1:35:15We need to work together and I understand the concerns of Israelis. Ambassador, the memory for many all Israelis who were there on October 7th is as if it was yesterday and the prospects for peace seem far across the horizon.
▶ 1:35:32I think our responsibility as Congress is to continue to harbor the hopes and possibilities of peace and to lay down the path that both Israelis and Palestinians, the people of the region can find a path together to live in security, prosperity, and ultimately peace. I yield back
▶ 1:35:48I'll recognize Representative Sherman quickly so we get votes.
▶ 1:35:52The IDF says settler violence is up 27%. The Times of London, The Times of Israel says uh that severe attacks are up 50%. These attacks would not happen if if CL supporters of ethnic cleansing did not have uh strong at least some significant support in the Israeli cabinet. There are two ways for Israel to commit suicide.
▶ 1:36:17uh one of those is to allow a Saudi and ultimately Egyptian, Turkish uh uh nuclear program and the other is to annex the West Bank uh and Gaza which ultimately will turn uh will lead as it uh to the infranchisement of uh the Arab population uh or uh the real crazies will take over in Israel and they will attempt physical ethnic cleansing uh a two-state solutions where we got to go and I
▶ 1:36:47yield back.
▶ 1:36:48Thank you. I want to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and members for their questions. The members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witnesses and we'll ask you to respond to those in writing. Pursuant to committee rules, all members have five days to submit statements, questions, extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations. Without objection, the committee stands journ.