▶ 0:15:46Chair Murkowski: Good afternoon. I will call this oversight hearing to order. Today, we are following a long tradition in this committee and are kicking off the new congress with a hearing that is focused on native communities' priorities. This committee is the only committee in congress that has the charge to serve the interest of native people across our federal government, and we take it seriously. The way that we live up to that charge is we listen.
▶ 0:16:18Chair Murkowski: We listen first. And by listening to you as native leaders highlight what is important to your communities and the work that you are doing, the committee can ensure that our work lines, and that way we can make progress together on the most pressing issues. I think that this approach works.
▶ 0:16:36Chair Murkowski: Over the last few years, working together, we've made historic bipartisan progress of important issues like public safety and justice, with the passage of the tribal title in 2020 two initiatives. We have seen huge investments and investment such as sanitation and broadband, but there's always more to do.
▶ 0:17:04Chair Murkowski: Issues are wide-ranging, which is why we have representatives from many different sectors, including education, health, finance, and economic development. How we approach these issues may not be the same for every native community could we recognize that. We respect that there is a different service delivery and self-determination models across the country, whether you are in alaska, hawaii, new mexico, minnesota, so we recognize that.
▶ 0:17:34Chair Murkowski: I'm going to take just a few words here this afternoon about the new administration, because as we are making our new start in the congress, we are always in a flurry of activity already. We have new oh a and b directives.
▶ 0:17:51Chair Murkowski: Some of these I know have caused concern as tribes and native communities rely on federal funding and on tribal programs that flow from the trust, treaty, and obligations to native people. Know that we are listening. I immediately raised concerns to the new administration every chance we got including in my meetings with nominees.
▶ 0:18:16Chair Murkowski: We sent a letter to omb urging them to acknowledge that tribes have a unique political status and to clarify across the federal government that as the administration carries out its initiatives, it does so in a way that respects this unique political status and the federal government's responsibility to native people. We have to be diligent here.
▶ 0:18:42Chair Murkowski: There are many good federal partners at the agency that understand these issues, at the department of interior, with secretary bergrum , they were the first to issue that executive order. Others are following. Today's hearing will help us chart our path forward together in this congress. I want to thank those of you who will be providing your comments to the committee today.
▶ 0:19:11Chair Murkowski: I look forward to hearing from you, and I welcome those that have gathered here in our committee room. It's not often that I walked in and I see a line to come into the senate indian affairs on a hearing. Recognizing that we are talking about priorities and seeing a full house is yet one more indicator of the importance of the good work of this committee. I turned to my friend and colleague, the vice chair, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:19:40Sen. Schatz: Thank you, chair murkowski. Welcome and thank you for joining us today could I would like to to extend a warm aloha to kuhio lewis, the ceo for the counsel for native hawaiian advancement. Cnha is important for community development opportunities. Thank you for your leadership for native hawaiians.
▶ 0:20:07Sen. Schatz: As the strongest voice for native priorities in the congress, this committee has a responsibility to engage with and represent all of your interests, not just in congress but across the federal government. We made historic bipartisan gains over the last four years to advance federal support for native communities, and that work literally would not have happened without our partnership.
▶ 0:20:30Sen. Schatz: That is why it is so important to continue the tradition, making our first order of business in the 119th congress to play native communities' priorities directly in the spotlight.
▶ 0:20:48Sen. Schatz: This is an opportunity to align the work we do with the hard work you are doing on the ground , to listen and learn what is working, what is not come into continue to build on our bipartisan achievement, strengthen tribal sovereignty, uphold the treaty and responsibility for native communities. I look forward to this conversation. Thank you.
▶ 0:21:07Chair Murkowski: Thank you, vice chair. I understand that, senator smith, you would like to make an opening statement as well.
▶ 0:21:16Sen. Smith: Thank you so much, chair murkowski and vice chair schatz. I'm so glad to see you here. I want to maybe put a point on what you said, chair murkowski, about helping the new administration, two things, a fond bipartisanship on this committee serves as quite well.
▶ 0:21:44Sen. Smith: I know everybody who is here believes in that and understands that these issues are not partisan issues. Second of all, I want to say I appreciate very much the work that I know that you are already doing, that we all are doing to make sure that this new administration does not catch up in its funding freezes or stops.
▶ 0:22:09Sen. Smith: , initiatives that are specific to indian country, because those initiatives are the trust in treaty responsibility of the federal government has to native people. It's not about any particular policy or initiative that might be out there, particularly related to diversity, equity, and inclusion so I'm grateful for your perspective on that.
▶ 0:22:32Chair Murkowski: Thank you, senator smith. Any other opening statements? With that, we will turn to our witnesses. Again, we have a very esteemed panel. Thank you can we will first hear from the honorable mark macarro, who is president of the national congress of american indians, ncai has been meeting in washington, D.C. this week, and I know many of us have had an opportunity to be in front of your membership.
▶ 0:22:58Chair Murkowski: He will be followed by the honorable william smith, who is the chairperson, and alaska area representative for the national indian health board. Chief bill, it is good to have you back before the committee. Next, we have the honorable rodney butler. He is the board president for the native american financial officers association. Welcome. Good to see you. And on the education front, we have Mr. carey have Mr.
▶ 0:23:27Chair Murkowski: Ca kerry bird, the board president for the national indian education association, also meeting in washington, D.C. this week. Virtually, as vice chair schatz has mentioned, we have Mr. kuhio lewis, the chief executive officer, council for native hawaiian advancement. So you know, gentlemen, we have your full testimony as part of our committee record already.
▶ 0:23:56Chair Murkowski: It will be included as part of that, so we would encourage you to try to keep the comments to about five minutes, so that we have more opportunity for questions after you have given us your statements. So we will go in the order of introduction, beginning with president macarro.
▶ 0:24:15Chairman Macarro: Thank you, chair murkowski and vice chairman schatz, for allowing me to testify before the 119th congress. I am mark macarro, the tribal chairman and california. Today, I come before you as the current president of the national congress of american indians, founded in 1944.
▶ 0:24:36Chairman Macarro: Ncai is the oldest, largest, and most representative indian and alaska native rec representation for indian country, their tribal governments, and communities. Tribal nations are inherent sovereign nations with legal status. This has been long recognized by congress and reaffirmed by the united states supreme court.
▶ 0:24:59Chairman Macarro: Congress and the administration must continue to recognize tribal nations and sovereign governments to support clear directives that reinforce the legal and political status of tribal nations. Federal funding programs that deliver service and facilitate the sovereignty and self-determination of sovereign nations are created by federal law and policy. It reinforces the obligation of the federal government to fulfill its trust in treaty obligations to support tribal nations.
▶ 0:25:27Chairman Macarro: And their citizens and their institutions. Congress is acting under a unique form, a production of legal class rather than suspect racial class under the principle of constitutional legal analysis. The U.S. supreme court has consistently recognized and upheld the legal status of tribal nations and their citizens.
▶ 0:25:50Chairman Macarro: The department of interior and secretarial order 3416 directed the agency on implementation of the administration's priorities recognize that the statutory authorities in treaty and trust obligations of the department, that is interior, to tribal nations, a legal requirement that must not be impaired.
▶ 0:26:12Chairman Macarro: We asked the congress and administration ensure federal funding for tribal programs is not paused, reclassified, or reprioritize when admitting an executive order or other administration priorities. Ensure that in limiting the federal workforce, sufficient federal employees are available to deliver all the trust in treaty obligations.
▶ 0:26:34Chairman Macarro: Tribal nations support this of administration's efforts to alleviate burdensome regulations and other barriers that hinder tribal self-governance and economic development, but these must be developed at all levels of government with tribal nations to ensure there are no unintended consequences. Now to staffing levels of agencies I addressed. Chronic indian health care workforce shortages have continued to plague tribal citizens and tribal communities.
▶ 0:27:03Chairman Macarro: Finding and keeping qualified professionals and tribal hospitals, clinics, and facilities has been challenging due to to current funding levels and locations, primarily rural areas. The recent U.S. office of opm, the recent email from opm to approximately 2 million federal employees has caused confusion and concern among many, including those who tirelessly serve in indian country. Among the federal employees are health care professionals within the indian health service.
▶ 0:27:31Chairman Macarro: This actually has immediate consequences for tribal citizens and tribal communities that receive life-saving services. Reduction to an already shortstaffed health care provider does not honor the legal obligations made to tribal nations inputs lives at risk.
▶ 0:27:50Chairman Macarro: We thank congress for its recent steps to strengthen its treaty and trust obligations, for his continued support, however, we do see health care professionals disturbing our community as a step in the wrong direction. The indian health moves act of 2025 is a step in the right direction, and we urge your support for this legislation for the federal government has a fundamental duty to ensure public safety on tribal land.
▶ 0:28:21Chairman Macarro: This obligation has been recognized by congress, notably in the law, which underscores federal responsibility in indian country. The office 2021 report to congress highlights a critical funding crisis, revealing that they are currently funded at only 12% of actual need.
▶ 0:28:44Chairman Macarro: The funding's shortfall is $3 billion and indicates a need for approximately 25,000 additional personnel to ensure adequate safety and justice services for tribal communities. This federal standard for officers is 2.4 per 1000 people.
▶ 0:29:02Chairman Macarro: Using one tribe as an example, .6 officers for 1000 people and 53,000 tribal makers, there's -- members, there's a huge disparity, comment along all of our land-based tribes come and it cannot continue. To address these alarming unmet needs, congress must commit to providing sufficient funding for programs in indian country, ensuring safe and secure communities for tribal citizens.
▶ 0:29:27Chairman Macarro: In closing, regarding our jurisdiction, the public safety crisis in indian country is deeply rooted in historical jurisdictional challenges stemming from regulations, statutes, and supreme court decisions over the past 150 years. This legal framework endangers life by limiting the ability of tribal nations to effectively police and prosecute criminal activities, allowing dangerous individuals to invade -- evade justice.
▶ 0:29:57Chairman Macarro: If congress must address and eliminate these barriers faced by tribal nation law enforcement and justice systems to empower them by safeguarding their employees. I appreciate the consideration, and my last sentence is shorthand on housing.
▶ 0:30:15Chair Murkowski: Welcome back. Thank you, president macarro. Next we go to william smith, chief bill.
▶ 0:30:30Chief Smith: On behalf of the 574 federally recognized american indian and alaska native tribal nations, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on the tribal health priorities of the 190 congress. My name is william smith. I am a veteran in the state army. I serve as alaska area in the in the chairman of the national health board.
▶ 0:31:00Chief Smith: I also serve as chairman of the national indian health board and represent the native tribes of alaska. I represent tribes in government states and indian tribes. The superior court has upheld andean legislation, determined that it is political in nature rather than based on an unconstitutional racial classification.
▶ 0:31:28Chief Smith: Recent executive orders and guidance and attempts have impacted the indian health system. We commend the chairwoman on her letter to the administration, urging the need to meet the trust and obligations of the federal government to tribes. The department of health and human services should issue secretaries order that acknowledges the political status of tribal nations and their citizens.
▶ 0:31:53Chief Smith: Let me say the previous response abilities to the tribes, exempt all tribal department program from the impact of recent executive orders and guidance. Further, we urge the committee and congress to continue to educate the work that the new administration of its legal obligations to tribal nations.
▶ 0:32:14Chief Smith: The indian health system continues to be dramatically underfunded, providing in-house service for mandatory funding and assure the federal government is meeting its trust and treaty response abilities and obligations to the tribal nations for health. The national tribal budget estimated that full funding for the 2026 would be $52 billion. Congress further authorizing to be on medicare, medicaid, and children's health insurance programs to address the funding needs.
▶ 0:32:45Chief Smith: As congress considers medicare reform as a federal trust response ability for indian health care, we honored a 100% match to services received for indian health service. Expecting benefits from reform including work requirements, the united states trust and legal responsibility to tribes, medicare reforms must be delivered, and understand the
▶ 0:33:15Chief Smith: Impact to indian health programs. Even though the agency may not immediately appear to do so. These resources are critical to address the need of indian country, including behavioral health, the strain on available resources who cannot meet the demand of the rising behavioral and health issues nationwide.
▶ 0:33:45Chief Smith: -- critical reporting, patience from care, comparing to the variety of treatment, all components of behavioral health in indian country. We asked congress to strengthen congress behavior health treatments and programs, for funding and expanding access to congress, historically confined to social, political, and
▶ 0:34:16Chief Smith: Environment factors that have impacted the health status of american indian, alaska native mothers and infants. It resulted in a higher rate of maternal and infant rate mortality. Congress should support maternal and infant outcome for native mothers and children, maternal child health service block grant.
▶ 0:34:40Chief Smith: A robust health for alaska natives and other mothers and infants. These have been highlighted in two recent reports. The first, the way forward, the commission on native children and the tribal prenatal to see the policy agenda.
▶ 0:35:05Chief Smith: Congress should adopt the 2024 health care package from the 118th congress. This includes a number of tribal authorities, including the reauthorization of the special diabetes program for two years, $200 million per year, and medicare tribal flexibility. Indian health service provides scholarships and opportunities and indian country.
▶ 0:35:33Chief Smith: Any tax reform of the 119th congress should make indian health and loan programs tax-exempt double, following with other similar sets of programs. Tribal sovereignty and the threat of self self-government demonstrate and pilot programs. We stand ready to work with this committee on this endeavor.
▶ 0:36:04Chief Smith: In conclusion, the federal government made promises in the tribal treaties to provide for, among other things, health care of tribal citizens. These priorities are each a step to meet those promises and fulfill the trust in treaty responsibilities. I want to thank this committee for the opportunity to speak.
▶ 0:36:28Chief Smith: Bottom line is, congress has the ability to look at the broken promises and see how every treaty is broken, and they have an obligation to fulfill those deals, because, we have paid and paid them a we paid with our land, we pay with our lives, we have given up our land, and the
▶ 0:37:01Chief Smith: Promise the united states will take care of us in health and in education. So, paid in full is what I'm looking for.
▶ 0:37:11Chair Murkowski: Thank you, chief smith. Chairman butler.
▶ 0:37:21Chairman Butler: Good afternoon, my friends. My name is chairman butler, and I am from the mesh and at the club tribe, and I'm here. -- pequot tribe. As the president of naf foundero of the native american financial officers association,a on the parties of the 119, congress.
▶ 0:37:51Chairman Butler: The meeting of the congress is crucial now, with a new and administration, new congress, and new challenges. Over 40 years, nafoa has worked to strengthen through communication. Our member tribes represent the diversity of the economic landscape including tribal gaming, and culture programs, federal contracting, and many more.
▶ 0:38:19Chairman Butler: First, we continue to emphasize that the relationship between the federal government of the united states and tribal nations is rooted in a political relationship between sovereigns, not a racial or any other classification. The supreme court unanimously confirmed this and more and has consistently upheld this tenant. This political relationship recognized within the united states constitution forms the foundation for modernizing the federal treatment of tribal governments and their enterprises.
▶ 0:38:46Chairman Butler: The recent issuance of executive orders and subsequent funding pause raises concerns among tribal nations. It challenges access to critical systems. A lack of information from federal agencies and considerable uncertainty about impact of such actions. Regardless of the percentage of total budget, the pause and federal funding, prolonged, or permanent, impacts the ability of tribes to offer crucial programs and services to our tribal citizens.
▶ 0:39:19Chairman Butler: To this end, I want to thank you in particular, chair murkowski, for the letter that you sent to omb, recognizing our unique status, and requesting a governmentwide exemption, acknowledging that tribal nations must not be impacted by executive orders related to dei. At nafoa, we remain committed to helping other member tribes with the tools and resources to navigate adverse federal policies.
▶ 0:39:44Chairman Butler: We urge congress and the administration to ensure all tribal programs and federal serving tribal nations remain fully operational and adequately staffed. This includes recognition that programs program funding fulfills legal obligation, protection of funding stream supporting tribal economic development, and maintenance staffing levels needed for program delivery.
▶ 0:40:07Chairman Butler: The continuation of vital technical assistance programs, preservation of agency expertise in tribal matters, and protection of tribal specific program offices are essential for supporting tribal economic growth. It is important to mention that tribal owned entities are critical to create jobs and supplement funding for travel programs that are underfunded in the federal budget.
▶ 0:40:31Chairman Butler: In addition to protecting trust and treaty obligations, we urge congress to address tribal tax authority legislation introduced by our good friend senator cortez masto was tremendous bipartisan support. Over the past several congress is, nafoa has worked with the senate and the house to address long-standing disparity in treatment of government and taxes.
▶ 0:40:56Chairman Butler: Based on feedback and I were tribes, we have made important decisions we are confident will allow for inclusion in the upcoming tax package that will be considered by congress. Congress must address long-standing disparities between state and tribal government and ensure that tribal governments are treated under same persistence as state for its key tax purposes, including excise taxes, bond issuance, pension plans, general welfare benefits, and charitable organizations.
▶ 0:41:26Chairman Butler: Unfortunately in recent years, the disparity between states and tribes has only increased. According to the brookings institute from 2014 to 2020, state governments issued $47 billion annually in nontaxable municipal bonds compared to only $84 million by tribal governments.
▶ 0:41:44Chairman Butler: The full parity in taxes and finances will enhance job creation, generate sorely needed governmental revenue for social services, stimulate infrastructure and business development on tribal land, and accelerate the diversification and resiliency of tribal economies, particularly in private sectors. Another critical provision in our legislative recognition is the creation of the annual $175 million tax credit.
▶ 0:42:12Chairman Butler: The tax credit program attracts private capital to economically distressed communities by providing tax credit for investors. Unfortunately, tribes are too often unable to access these credits. Our recommendation is to set aside these credits for indian country. Finally, we recommend any tax legislation considered by congress includes housing taxpayers. This program provides tax incentives for developers to create affordable housing, a credit often unavailable to tribes.
▶ 0:42:41Chairman Butler: We recommend these and other tax priorities be included in the larger tax framework being considered by congress this year. By modernizing the tax code for the treatment of tribal governments and economic development, tribal tax legislation will help tribes generate financial revenue and deliver essential services to stronger reservation economy. We also urge congress to make sure the treasury department's office of tribal and native affairs become permanent and continue the tribal advisory committee.
▶ 0:43:11Chairman Butler: These are essential partners for tribal governments and business entities. The allow for efficient communication and ensuring tribes can access tax incentives and economic development tools. We also support the effort to classify both contra support costs for the tribal lease program, mandatory which is consistent with the statutory leg was a court decision.
▶ 0:43:34Chairman Butler: This reclassification will allow tribal governments to continue to exert travel control over programs within the communities and exercise self-determination over tribal government infrastructure. Lastly, nafoa encourages congress to increase the amount available to tribes as part of the department of interior's indian loan guarantee program and authorizing language that allows the new market tax program.
▶ 0:44:02Chairman Butler: This simple fix will have a significant impact on the ability of tribal nations to access capital. In closing, the federal government's trust and pretty response obligations must be upheld through concrete action to support tribal economic development. Nafoa's recommendations represent important steps toward filling these recommendations and benefit both federal government and federal government. I thank you again for your time today. Thank you all.
▶ 0:44:31Chair Murkowski: Thank you for we go to Mr. kerry bird. -- thank you. We go to Mr. kerry bird.
▶ 0:44:51Mr. Bird: Chair murkowski, vice chairman schatz, an committee, I am kerry bird. I am a citizen of south dakota and part of the tribe of north carolina.
▶ 0:45:06Mr. Bird: On behalf of the students, educators, and tribal nations we serve, I am pleased to discuss trust and treaty for native americans and alaskan natives and native hawaiians.
▶ 0:45:28Mr. Bird: The federal government's trust relief response ability to native education is a foundational obligation firmly established in legal precedents. But today, native students in schools face chronic underfunding and deteriorating infrastructure.
▶ 0:45:52Mr. Bird: It often fails to support the inherent sovereignty of tribal nation and ministering their own education, leaving community stuck in bureaucratic red tape. We urge congress to take decisive action inside key areas. First and foremost, congress must affirm the political status of natives. The federal trust in treaty obligations to native education are not discretionary commitments. They are legal obligations.
▶ 0:46:26Mr. Bird: This duty has been reaffirmed through centuries of legislation, beginning with the civilization find act of 1819, codified as federal directive in the snyder act, and later under the indian self-determination and education assistance act, as well as the tribal schools act of 1988.
▶ 0:46:49Mr. Bird: The trust responsibility for individual native students in public schools has been reinforced through the johnson and allie act of 1935, title vi of the elementary and secondary education act of 1965, and the native hawaiian education act of 1988. Tribal nations and native communities should be empowered to design educational systems that reflect the value, tradition, and economic priorities.
▶ 0:47:16Mr. Bird: These programs are not simply a matter of cultural pride but are critical to the future of an success of our community. Second, we need stable and adequate funding. Our schools require consistent investment, not fluctuating annual budgets that create uncertainty. Advanced appropriations was sure that native education programs are shielded from budgetary disruptions, allowing for long-term planning and success.
▶ 0:47:45Mr. Bird: Additionally, congress must protect title vi, insuring native students in public schools receive the resources they are owed. Third, we must expand government and empower tribal nations to control their education system. Extending public laws 477 and 638 will give tribes greater sme over education.
▶ 0:48:15Mr. Bird: Additionally, funding should be moves to mandatory appropriation to ensure tribes can build come up repair come and maintain schools and infinitely ensuring federal government meets its fiduciary responsibilities. Fourth, early childhood education is a critical foundation for lifelong success. The commission on native children has emphasized the urgent need for culturally relevant early childhood programs that address the unique need of native communities.
▶ 0:48:46Mr. Bird: The report highlighted the importance of improving access to a and other early education -- to headstart and other early education services. Congress must prioritize implementing the recommendations, providing native children with crucial development and educational opportunities. Finally, I want to highlight the urgent need to improve school facilities.
▶ 0:49:13Mr. Bird: Unlike dod, or department of defense schools, which receive significant investment, many d.I.e. Schools are unsafe buildings. Tribes must have sufficient funding for construction and renovation, whether through direct appropriations, the great american outdoors act, or it expanded lease agreements.
▶ 0:49:42Mr. Bird: Members of the committee, the stakes are high. You are not only investing in the future of our youth but also the resiliency of tribal nations and ultimately the success of the united states. I urge you to act now to uphold trust and treaty nations and ensure that native students receive the education they deserve. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:50:08Chair Murkowski: Thank you. Now we go virtually to hawaii. Kuhio lewis, welcome.
▶ 0:50:17Mr. Lewis: A loja. I am kuhio lewis, chic executive officer -- chief executive officer of the council for native hawaiian advancement. I want to thank you, chair murkowski. We are the sister of aan, alaskan american natives.
▶ 0:50:47Mr. Lewis: We have 50 members as part of our organization networks, a hud certified agency, and we manage large-scale workforce programs, housing projects, financial aid, and we help manage tourism in our islands. Currently we are playing a pivotal role in helping maui recover from the devastating wildfires. We also operate the policy center and help connect people with decision-makers.
▶ 0:51:15Mr. Lewis: Just by way of our comments, the federal government has a special and political trust relationship with the native way and community following the overthrow of our queen and the annexation of the kingdom, the illegal annexation of our kingdom of hawaii, and the future of our land. These are the same trust printable's that congress has recognized, and is owed to the native people of the united states.
▶ 0:51:42Mr. Lewis: And in lieu of a government to government relationship, the federal government fulfills its trust obligations to native hawaiians by working with native and organizations like ours and many others out there, as well as the native away community at large. Compared to other groups in hawaii, native hawaiians face some of the greatest disparities. We have the shortest life expectancy. We are the most likely to live below the poverty line. We experienced significantly higher rates of unemployment.
▶ 0:52:13Mr. Lewis: We have the most incarcerated. And one unfortunate statistic as recently, they are more native hawaiians now living outside of our homeland of hawaii than in our homeland. So we are losing more and more. We've already lost our monarchy, our lands, our culture, and that we are losing people. The cost of living, the unaffordable housing prices, the lack of career opportunities have pushed our native way of people out of their homeland.
▶ 0:52:43Mr. Lewis: And while great strides have been made, more work needs to be done to support our native people. The inclusion of native hawaiians and programs like the office of energy, increase funding to support programs so we can build housing, ensuring that trust principles are met and native hawaiians can stay in their home is is critical. These funding mechanisms allow us to leverage private funds as well, so that we can further support our people.
▶ 0:53:16Mr. Lewis: In closing, similar to what others have said, funds are critical to our advancement, and there have been tremendous happenings in recent years, so as well as for our native education funds, to help perpetuate and cultivate the continuation of our hawaiian language programs, which was something that was lost, and what we get from congress is
▶ 0:53:46Mr. Lewis: Also critical. So what we are asking for is for the continued recognition and support of our native away and people in hawaii, and we will do our part to continue to support our people. Thank you, chair. Thank you, committee members. And I'm available for questions.
▶ 0:54:02Chair Murkowski: Mahalo, Mr. lewis, and thank you. Thank you all for your comments. We will turn to questions from the respective members of the committee. You have all reminded us of the trust responsibility that our federal government owes to our native peoples, regardless of where you live.
▶ 0:54:26Chair Murkowski: That trust responsibility is something that we hold, and it is, with regards to economic opportunity, housing, health care, as we've heard today. We think about the areas in the new congress, I think you've given us a lot to consider.
▶ 0:54:47Chair Murkowski: I want to start my questions here this afternoon directed to you, chief bill, on the health aspects of this responsibility. And you have mentioned in your comments the alarmingly high maternal mortality rates that we see for indigenous women. I find the statistics just really shocking.
▶ 0:55:17Chair Murkowski: Pregnancy-related deaths at a rate more than three times that of white women. American indian, alaska native infants born prematurely, underway, twice as likely to die before the age of one. We know that some of these statistics are related to access to health care and to social or economic challenges, but you suggested in your comments that there is some recommendations that have been outlined in a couple of different reports, one of which is the native
▶ 0:55:47Chair Murkowski: Children's commission. This committee is going to be working to build that out. But can you expand a little bit more on any specific recommendations that you would like to see the committee address when it comes to maternal mortality and infant health?
▶ 0:56:05Chief Smith: Thank you for the question. I've got five of them here, protect tribal sovereignty and tribal nations, the right to self govern as a function of our health equity. We know how to take care of our own. We prove that in alaska with covid. We took care of the whole village.
▶ 0:56:41Chief Smith: Investment in funding and tribal communities to improve outcomes for children and prenatal to age three. And the other part of that program was to address trauma and strengthen connections to culture. Focus on the healing from trauma and building resiliency through culture connections.
▶ 0:57:04Chief Smith: And as you know, there's all kinds of trauma, starting with the boarding schools, and even being isolated, you know, remote villages that are far away from all kinds of supermarkets, playgrounds, and everything else that is needed to make sure that the kids have a safe walk.
▶ 0:57:33Chief Smith: Having access to quality health services, ensuring that native american and alaska native families have access to the high quality system services. I was born in alaska, and the hospital on 4th avenue, fourth and third, I was scared to death to go there.
▶ 0:58:01Chief Smith: The new hospital they have an accurate, the medical center, welcomes you and everything else, but it was like a death sentence to go into the other one, as you were growing up as a kid. So I can just imagine, I never recognize the 1, 2, 3, because I don't remember that part.
▶ 0:58:25Chief Smith: So the generation approach, promote policies considering the needs from alaska natives and american indians. A healthy outcome for alaska natives and american indians for infants and for their mothers.
▶ 0:58:45Chair Murkowski: What we want to do here on the committee is look at the various reports that are out there. It is one thing to cast a commission and have them put together a great report. It's another to have them implemented. I think we want to do that you want to direct a couple of questions to you, Mr. butler, with nafoa, and I appreciate that you have given us some concrete suggestions here to look at.
▶ 0:59:11Chair Murkowski: From the financing perspective, earmarked tax credits, title -- tribal law income, tribal income tax credit, focusing on the indian loan guarantee program. You also mentioned the priority of making treasury's office permanent and creating the advisory committee.
▶ 0:59:37Chair Murkowski: That is good to hear, because often times we don't hear good reports coming out of some of these tribal liaisons that we have established within agencies, that what you are telling me is that this is one where we are seeing good outcomes, and it is working, and it needs to be continued. Is that a fair summation?
▶ 1:00:02Chairman Butler: Yeah. Absolutely, chair. And one of the many hats I wear is a member of the treasury travel committee as well. I talk firsthand in a very short period of time of having tribal leaders engage directly with leadership in a specific department, in this case treasury, leads to great results. The rulings that were put out on gwe, a tribal charter corporation, is monumental.
▶ 1:00:33Chairman Butler: That ruling is 30 years in the making, and having the office of native affairs there allowed us to progress that and constantly be in the ear of treasury. Working hand-in-hand collaboratively to solve those issues that tribes have been waiting on for decades, quite frankly. So a great example of success. And the department of treasury and one that should be replicated in other departments as well.
▶ 1:00:58Chair Murkowski: Good. I appreciate that. Let's go to the vice chair.
▶ 1:01:02Sen. Schatz: Thank you, chair, and thank you all for your testimony. Mr. lewis, thank you for your work. Can you help me get to understand, help the committee understand, what are the barriers to success? Any needed changes or improved flexibilities that could help the council for native hawaiian advancement to access more federal dollars?
▶ 1:01:25Mr. Lewis: Thanks for the question. I think the immediate challenge is the uncertainty that currently exists, you know, we have active grants and awards from the federal government, some which we cannot even draw down on, and what that does is it creates a lot of instability in our organization, not knowing the future of some of the programs that we are actively implementing.
▶ 1:01:54Mr. Lewis: So that is a current challenge for us. It just leaves a lot of uncertainty. Also our bill to the two plans going forward and how we can address some of the long-term needs of our people that we been working towards for a while. We are, of course, looking at how we can diversify ourselves, but the federal government has been an important part in how we develop programs and work collaboratively with the government to support the needs of our people.
▶ 1:02:24Sen. Schatz: Thank you. One thought for everybody watching, I understand the principle here that when you are dealing with native people, you are dealing in treaty and trust and statutory responsibility. You are not dealing with particular ethnic groups, so the dragnet of calling everything dei should not apply. I get that. I agree with that.
▶ 1:02:56Sen. Schatz: But we need a little solidarity, too, all of us together, to say that if what someone is talking about when they say dei is a consultant coming in and showing a powerpoint and dividing up the workplace by race and developing quotas and refereeing the kinds of words people are trying to use, that is one thing.
▶ 1:03:18Sen. Schatz: But understand that when they say dei, they are rolling back basic protections for women, for native people, for black people, for asians, f latinoso, for immigrants.
▶ 1:03:36Sen. Schatz: Whenr these kids, frankly, go in and are asked to define words like gender or climate or equity or inclusion, they are sweeping up recruitment for the navy. They are sweeping up recruitment for fbi officers. There disallowing nih research into pregnant women.
▶ 1:04:00Sen. Schatz: And so I understand the need, if you are in charge of an organization, you represent a tribal community, the need to just survive this moment, but we need to understand, what is happening right now is unlawful, and it is not our job, in a democracy, to petition the king for marcy. It is our job in a democracy to stand up and say, this is impermissible under the law.
▶ 1:04:29Sen. Schatz: Not, "I know this is impermissible, but will you please make an exception for me?"that is not a question. [applause] Mr. bird, tell me about the impact that the executive order for school choice for b.I.e. And tribally controlled b.I.e.
▶ 1:04:59Sen. Schatz: Schools is doing for schools you oversee.
▶ 1:05:02Mr. Bird: Sure. Tribal nations believed in school choice, however, tribally controlled schools are our choice, and we understand that school students learn best when students have control of those schools, and are determining what is being taught. Our curriculum includes tribal values from the community.
▶ 1:05:28Mr. Bird: They include curriculum that is related to the native come across other tribal communities. We are concerned about the possibility of school choice model that relates to schools coming under b.I.a. Control that would take away funding from b.I.e.-controlled schools.
▶ 1:05:56Mr. Bird: In a school choice models must be made with tribal nations at the table helping to assist in making the determination. I know looking at my father's tried, they have a tribally controlled school. It's located in an area very close to the heart of the tribe, close to the senior center, closer tribal administration, close to the powwow grounds.
▶ 1:06:24Mr. Bird: So it has all of those components that make it more of a success because it is centered in that community, and it has parents involvement, the seniors involvement, it has language providers in that school, so the curriculum is very much focused on the needs of the students in the school system.
▶ 1:06:47Mr. Bird: They would not have an opportunity at the public high school, where the indian teachers are very limited in a school system. It would not have the same type of encouragement or pride as being an indian student in that community. So the school choice being a tribally controlled school is so important, because what it brings to the student and to the tribal member and the involvement of those within the community.
▶ 1:07:16Sen. Schatz: Thank you.
▶ 1:07:19Chair Murkowski: Thank you so much, chair murkowski, and thank you all for being here. I wanted to thank vice chair schatz. I appreciate your comments. Earlier today, I was addressing an issue with the catholic university in minneapolis that had a grant to train special education teachers, because it was all caught up in this dei nonsense.
▶ 1:07:48Chair Murkowski: So that is going to hurt the ability of my state to respond to the deep shortage of special education students, it's going to hurt native kids, it's going to hurt black kids come it will her brown kids, it will hurt white kids! It will hurt everybody. I want to touch on something for us that I know is very important, certainly in the tribal nations in minnesota, and I believe around the country, which is the impact of the devastating opioid and fentanyl crisis.
▶ 1:08:20Chair Murkowski: Certainly it is an issue all over the country, but I think it is a particularly devastating impact on many tribal nations, because of the ways in which tribal members are targeted for these crimes. I see this as both a public health crisis and also a public safety crisis.
▶ 1:08:38Chair Murkowski: President macarro, I will ask you first about this kid last year, senator daines and I introduced a bill called the protect act, which would basically expand the special tribal criminal jurisdictions, which have been so successful with issues around trafficking, expand that special criminal jurisdiction to include drug crimes and gun crimes that are committed as part of drug crimes.
▶ 1:09:02Chair Murkowski: This will get at the challenge that so many natives, so many tribes have addressing when non-native people, your tribal land and commit drug and gun crimes. President macarro, could you talk about this a bit and give me your perspective on whether something like this would address some of the jurisdictional challenges you were talking about in your testimony?
▶ 1:09:21Chairman Macarro: Thank you for the question. I appreciate the thoughts. Yeah. It is something -- tribes need jurisdiction back, the ability to not only detain, arrest, detain, but to prosecute those who commit crimes on our reservation lands and a reservation communities, it's going to be important, going forward, to not only stem the
▶ 1:09:51Chairman Macarro: Flow of drugs but create the community. The status quo right now is really unacceptable. In circumstances with drug dealers, they know what the laws are, they know that they can't be prosecuted. They know they will get away with the crime.
▶ 1:10:12Sen. Smith: It is a revolving door.
▶ 1:10:13Chairman Macarro: It is a revolving door. Maybe the tribe is lucky enough to have a police force, they will get arrested, and they might even be detained for 72 hours. Then they have to be released at 72 hours and one minute, take them to the county line, and I think if the tribal police are lucky, there will be a county sheriff to accept the criminal, but maybe not.
▶ 1:10:39Chairman Macarro: They just go away and come back within an hour sometimes, sometimes within a day, you know, and do it all over again, and it does not end. It is a scourge, and the solution is, ultimately, the full fixed full fixe, taking baby steps, incremental steps toward getting toward that goal. But the sooner we get this, I think the better things will be in the long term.
▶ 1:11:12Chairman Macarro: I think, let me just add this, though. If you were to waive a wand right now, and congress, in a bipartisan fashion, would create that jurisdictional fix, the condition of not having enough funding, you know, that is also not going to help. Both parts need to happen.
▶ 1:11:33Sen. Smith: I appreciate that. I think that is a really great point. It's a tool that if you don't have the funding to use the tool, then the tool is really not that valuable. As I said, I think all of us see this as both a public health crisis as well as a public safety crisis, and so, chair smith them I want to ask you, and your testimony, you talked about the special diabetes program as a model for bringing both funding and autonomy to tribes, so that tribal knowledge
▶ 1:12:07Sen. Smith: And medicine and healing can be brought together to solve issues around diabetes. The same model, I believe, could also be used really effectively to address behavioral health issues. I wonder if you could just comment on that. I'm really grateful to nihb for your assistance in moving my improvement act, what we do is kick that learning from the diabetes special program and apply it to behavioral health.
▶ 1:12:37Chief Smith: Thank you. Thank you for the question. My answer for two you would be the education of our health services, so we can check on these drugs, to get them off and get them to a safe place. But that is not going to solve it until they do get tougher on the crime and put the offenders away.
▶ 1:13:07Chief Smith: They might not like this, but I think they should take their own medicine. I know when I was growing up in alaska, in the old days, we have what you called a blue-chip. You wanted to blue-chip someone who was not acting well in the community, you would put them in seattle, to put them back on the boat.
▶ 1:13:35Chief Smith: The problem is, the courts just let them get away with it. But on the health side of that, the education and how to recover from a fentanyl overdose, because a lot of them don't. And a lot of them don't recover, because once the brain gets scrambled, sometimes you just can't unscramble it.
▶ 1:14:06Chief Smith: Maintenance, education, everything else, the health part of it is, the other part is like working with the national tribe of american indians what we can be tougher on the fentanyl. Quit letting them in and out. They know that they can get away with it. And even in my state of alaska, they are really happy they found a bunch of fentanyl coming into alaska.
▶ 1:14:35Chief Smith: How much came in that they didn't find? We need to figure out how to stop it. Enforcement, education part is trying to educate the young ones to just stay away. The ones that are hooked, how to get off.
▶ 1:14:56Chief Smith: The ones like grandmas and grandpa's and parents, how to save that person with narcan or whatever it takes.
▶ 1:15:07Sen. Smith: Thank you very much, to all of you for your testimony.
▶ 1:15:11Chair Murkowski: Senator cortez masto.
▶ 1:15:16Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you for being here and the continued work on all of these issues that we are constantly trying to address. It feels like groundhog day because we are back saying the same things but let me say this. Because of, and I hope you take this in a way, because of your work and advocacy there is legislation, bipartisan legislation.
▶ 1:15:44Sen. Cortez Masto: This will be a priority for us in this congress to get this past, as you know and we will continue to need your advocacy. I appreciate you being here because many of us are working together to get it done. Let me start with this. The badges act.
▶ 1:16:02Sen. Cortez Masto: My colleague and I have reintroduced that and it is important for the reasons president macarro and everything I'm hearing about the underfunding of law enforcement in indian country. For our bia officers in indian country, it is hard to not only recruit them but retain them. That is part of the challenge we have and the badges act will work to address that.
▶ 1:16:31Sen. Cortez Masto: It is good to see you again president bia and thank -- president macarro. We talk about macarro -- we talk about bia officers but tribal courts are just as in her tent. There are challenges in tribal courts. This is what I hear in my state.
▶ 1:16:51Sen. Cortez Masto: Tribal courts in communities are often denied access to funding and law enforcement tools that they are non-tribal counterparts regularly use. For example, I introduced the tribal access to electronic evidence act, which would give tribal courts the same access as their non-tribal counterparts to electronic evidence for criminal investigations.
▶ 1:17:19Sen. Cortez Masto: It sounds simple but it is important for us to make sure our tribal courts have access to all the information that non-tribal student. -- courts do. If we are going to hold people accountable it is important. President macarro, can you talk a little bit about the importance of tribal courts in indian country?
▶ 1:17:42Sen. Cortez Masto: And as you talk about it, can you address the lack of resources for tribal courts and the impact on public safety that provides if we don't have resources for tribal courts?
▶ 1:17:55Chairman Macarro: I wish we had enough time to go into depth on that question. Can you focus it a bit? It is broad ranging.
▶ 1:18:10Sen. Cortez Masto: For our tribal courts there are lots of challenges but if we were to give, forget the jurisdictional issues because we need to address jurisdictional issues but if we were to give tribal courts access to the same information, electronic information, access to maybe national, federal databases that non-tribal courts have, how would that improve public safety?
▶ 1:18:37Chairman Macarro: It would improve it tremendously. There is an issue with tribal courts have capacity or competence or things like that. We know that from working the tribal courts throughout the country, throat indian country. The problem, there are problems with outside courts and entities having, accepting as valid the work the tribal courts to.
▶ 1:19:09Chairman Macarro: That attitude I know is still there. I know it is still there in indian jobs welfare work. And other subject matter arenas. If that goes, I feel that would be helpful in moving the ball considerably.
▶ 1:19:32Chairman Macarro: In the way with law enforcement, having access to databases like, for tribal law enforcement, having access to ncic for officers in the field and databases like that so the quality of the work going on for the people doing the actual work, meets those standards and there is no question.
▶ 1:19:52Sen. Cortez Masto: This is just one piece of this. You have to come to us to figure out what crimes tribal courts can hold people accountable for. This is crazy in the sense that if we are going to give and recognize sovereignty and to tribal courts the authority they need to go after and hold individuals accountable, we shouldn't hamstring them.
▶ 1:20:19Sen. Cortez Masto: It is not a lack of resources, it is areas where you need access to information you are not getting that other courts are getting better non-tribal.
▶ 1:20:27Chairman Macarro: Absolutely. Can I add one more element? One reason why, this goes deeper. I think there is a missing infrastructure piece to your question. There is a lack of, I think the infrastructure needed within the department of justice, there is no bona fide tribal desk, no place of a clearinghouse of tribal issues and there should be and there needs to be.
▶ 1:20:55Chairman Macarro: This is not to discount the tremendous work that those who are doing native american work in the department of justice are doing. But there aren't enough attorneys to handle tribal work within the department of justice. So I think there needs to be some ultimately, restructuring so there could be a focus on this, then all things tribal, all things indian country can flow through that desk.
▶ 1:21:25Chairman Macarro: For a long time, it has seemed to be more ad hoc than truly structural and grounded. In all things tribal sovereignty.
▶ 1:21:36Sen. Cortez Masto: I want to thank you again for your comments. President butler, thank you for highlighting the tax parity act, the importance of it, that legislation again was driven by all of you. What I was hearing, what we heard, the chairwoman is working with me on that. She understands the issues that are important and I think this is another opportunity for us to move the ball forward and get something done. Thank you for your advocacy.
▶ 1:22:06Chair Murkowski: Thank you. A lot of good discussion here about everything from housing to how we can move out on economic development. Obviously education, health care, drugs, public safety, all very key.
▶ 1:22:31Chair Murkowski: When we think about tribal self-determination and what that means, there are so many opportunities for us particularly within 638, and there is a big efficiency effort going on by some folks outside this building. You may have noticed it.
▶ 1:22:52Chair Murkowski: I can't think of a greater demonstration of empowerment of our tribes, of the people on the ground and how we are able to build things out, or facilitate efforts through compacting 638 holds such promise for us.
▶ 1:23:17Chair Murkowski: We have to measure, and I have talked a lot about, when it comes to forest management and when you think about those that are closest to the land, those that have a real appreciation of understanding when you have low snowpack and rain, you will have greater propensity for fire. How do we handle this?
▶ 1:23:48Chair Murkowski: How do believe -- we address it? Those literally on the ground who are the stewards of these areas no better than anyone. How we can work to do more is something I will challenge us as a committee to work on. Mr. byrd, I know usda is soliciting feedback from tribes right now regarding the child nutrition programs, the tribal pilot projects.
▶ 1:24:14Chair Murkowski: I understand there either was or is a listening session later today at the niea conference to allow tribes and tribal organizations to administer nutrition programs, whether it is the school lunch program, the school breakfast program, summer food services, child and adult care food program. And you share with me how that is coming?
▶ 1:24:45Chair Murkowski: Have we identified barriers to standing up some of these programs? For instance, specifically the summer food programs. You don't have the kids in the school necessarily, they are just going to disperse over but how we can implement in a more efficient, effective way, that gives the value, if you will, to the children in terms of
▶ 1:25:16Chair Murkowski: Nutritious opportunities for food during the summer or the school year. We can do more on this. Have we identify the barriers? What do we need to do?
▶ 1:25:24Mr. Bird: It is not so much identifying the barriers, it is about giving the tribes control of the whole institutions. They already have control of the school itself, but not the lunch component that is midday of the students' existence at school.
▶ 1:25:42Mr. Bird: I was talking to a tribal member , and he said one of the things they have is, they have bison herd, and their goal is, or they are planning a process -- to process the meat. They have a meat processing plant that they have purchased and implemented, so the goal is to process the meat from the bison herd and use that to feed the kids at their school.
▶ 1:26:16Mr. Bird: It becomes basically a hold tribal involvement in the school as well as with the students, so they are going back to eating traditional foods. That is what control of the lunch program would give those tribes.
▶ 1:26:31Mr. Bird: So they can incorporate more traditional foods, whether it is bison or blueberries or other things found in the community, because it is a whole process of taking back some of the traditional ways of the tribal community. And teaching that the kids in their student lives, in their daily existence.
▶ 1:26:53Mr. Bird: I think also, with the school lunch program during the summer, these kids often go without meals, the daily meals they would get during the school system, they miss those during the summer. I have been back, I know what my cousins eat. They rely on snacks and non-nutritious foods, potato chips and other things they get.
▶ 1:27:20Mr. Bird: So having a food program that actually puts together a food bag or food lunch program, for kids to come to a program where they actually get food that is balanced, a nutritious meal for those kids.
▶ 1:27:39Mr. Bird: It is a mix of things, during the year they are actually fed more traditional foods but during the summer, when they do bag lunches for the kids, they can get those foods as well. The benefits to having tribal involvement with the usda program that provides for that community.
▶ 1:27:59Chair Murkowski: It all comes back to health. We can provide our kids nutritious food and again, food they will eat, whether it is bison or in alaska it might be salmon. It is important to make sure we have healthy food options.
▶ 1:28:20Chair Murkowski: I'm going to be meeting in just about an hour with the nominee to be secretary of agriculture and I want to talk to her about programs and what more we can be doing to make sure we are getting some of our traditional foods into these menus. So they are healthy and the kids will eat them. I will give everybody a little bit of a homework assignment.
▶ 1:28:50Chair Murkowski: Only because I can, and it does not just for those of you who are part of our panel today. Mr. lewis, we haven't forgotten you in hawaii but I mentioned the commission on the native children and chief smith mentioned it as well. It is something that is a committee, we will be looking at this report to really understand , the report identified some of the systematic challenges that face our native children.
▶ 1:29:24Chair Murkowski: What we want to do is now, take some of the recommendations that are in the report, and I would like you to take a look at it. It is not that long. It is -- [laughter]
▶ 1:29:40Chair Murkowski: There is a lot of index to it. There is a summary. I want you to go beyond the summary and take a look at that. Within your portfolios, whether it is education or finance or health care or housing or public safety, kind of provide us, if you will, some of the recommendations that you would
▶ 1:30:10Chair Murkowski: Like to see implemented from this, to again, it is focusing on our native children. When our children do well, we all do well. I welcome your input as we develop this broader package of initiatives focused on healthy native children.
▶ 1:30:39Chair Murkowski: For those that are part of our listening audience, do not think that again, we only want to hear from those who we invited to testify today. There has been much discussion about the impact of the recent actions as the administration has been stood up, the freeze on these programs.
▶ 1:31:07Chair Murkowski: We have tried to make sure it is clear that it shouldn't impact our federal, our indian and tribal programs. But in fact we know that there are holdups. There are areas that we are seeing a spillover that should not be happening. So we need to hear from you on that. I hear what my vice chair says.
▶ 1:31:40Chair Murkowski: I take it to heart because I believe you don't have to petition the king. This is our responsibility here in the legislative branch to make sure we are representing those that we serve, and when something is not within process, is not within the rule or the law, we need to be there to speak for you as well.
▶ 1:32:11Chair Murkowski: So the more that we can receive from you in terms of this portal is not opening, this funding source is not coming through, please let us know. We have an inbox on our website that welcomes these very specific initiatives, so let us try to make this a little easier. I know it has been hard.
▶ 1:32:38Chair Murkowski: The last point I will make is, even though we may be able to release funds that have been delayed or halted and we get those moving, we are seeing clearly what is happening with push for a reduction in employees throughout federal service. Those are your programs.
▶ 1:33:05Chair Murkowski: Those are programs that impact you, so we can help you get the money released, but if there is nobody to help execute these through the programs, because they were either asked to leave or just decided that this was not the environment for them, then we are no further ahead.
▶ 1:33:33Chair Murkowski: So I take very carefully this is an issue, but it is not just about the funding for the programs. It is also about the ability to execute under the programs. We need to have these people in place and for far too long, within our tribal programs, we have had workforce shortages.
▶ 1:33:56Chair Murkowski: We see it within our schools, within the health care, within all aspects, certainly public safety. We hear over and over again. So this is yet another challenge for us. We take this up, we are here to listen, to learn and to act so thank you for working with us and this committee. With that, I think everyone for your time this afternoon.
▶ 1:34:26Chair Murkowski: The committee stands adjourned.