▶ 0:16:26Chair Paul: The committee will come to order. The committee will consider the committee funding resolution for the 119th congress. I know the presence of a quorum is required by the rules committee. The commission authorizes the funding for the committee for the next two years and has the support of ranking member peters and is adopted by a voice vote. Those in favor will say aye.
▶ 0:16:58Chair Paul: Those opposed will say no. The ayes have it. The funding is approved in the business beating is now adjourned. -- and the business meeting is now adjourned.
▶ 0:18:15Chair Paul: Today we are going to dive into reckless and wasteful spending from our federal government, particular when it comes to foreign aid. United states should not be the soaker daddy for the entire world, especially not for countries that contrary to our nations beliefs. Our country is $36 trillion in debt yet we continue to send billions of dollars overseas all for funding projects that are not just useless but in many cases actively harmful.
▶ 0:18:47Chair Paul: Taking the path to fiscal responsibility is often a lonely journey, but thanks to elon musk and doge they brought to light the waste I've been highlighting. Every year I release my festivus report to expose the ridiculous bedding of the federal government. I uncovered over $1 trillion in government waste with the state department and usaid being some of the worst offenders. Let me give you a few examples of what these unelected bureaucrats are spending your money on.
▶ 0:19:20Chair Paul: $4.8 million went to ukraine's public affairs office in kyiv to fund social media influencers. Instead of protecting our own border, $2.1 million were sent to paraguay to enhance their border security. Usaid also funded a group of ukrainian women led designers to travel to the paris fashion show.
▶ 0:19:47Chair Paul: I don't know about you but I would imagine ukrainian women have more important things to worry about than appearing in the paris fashion show. Usaid spent $2 million on transgender surgeries, hormone therapies, and genera forming care -- and gender affirming care in guatemala. $3 million was spent to support girl central climate action in brazil. I would love to picture what a conversation about girl centered climate action is.
▶ 0:20:18Chair Paul: Since when do we believe arguments need to be tailored for girls to understand? How insulting to women at large that they think there are special arguments for girls to understand are different than boys. 25,000 dollars to fund a transgender opera in columbia. Was nobody in columbia willing to buy a ticket? Usaid spent $32,000 in peru to create a comic featuring a trans hero to address social and mental health issues.
▶ 0:20:49Chair Paul: $20,000 to fund a dei program for a drag theater in ecuador. $20 million to produce a new sesame street show in iraq. Usaid spent $6 million to promote a project boosting sustainable tourism in egypt. I guess the U.S. is now a travel agent for the entire world since they spent $50 million on tunisia's tourism. Even though it is already one of the most visited countries in africa.
▶ 0:21:21Chair Paul: Usaid gave $87.9 million to help afghans farm the plant from which opium is extracted. As of 2021 afghanistan supplied 90% of the world's heroin. I thought the saying in the U.S. was just say no to drugs. How about we just say no to wasteful foreign aid. $75,000 for a live musical event to promote diversity equity and inclusion and accessibility in ireland.
▶ 0:21:52Chair Paul: The state department paid 330,002 pilot disinformation list to blacklist conservative media outlets and funneled over $54 million to eco-health lines, funding the very organization link to the wuhan institute of virology. $15 million was awarded to taliban-controlled afghanistan to distribute oral contraceptives and condoms.
▶ 0:22:21Chair Paul: There is still a $3 billion fund for afghan reconstruction. I've tried to take that money to pay for other things the government is spending money on and yet there has been resistance by the other side to deplete that fund and say we are done funding things in afghanistan. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
▶ 0:22:41Chair Paul: These are taxpayer dollars being used to fund ideologically and misguided, ineffective, and unnecessary projects thanks to the blundering bureaucracy while our own citizens struggle to put food on the table. This is not what our government was designed to do. The U.S. government is not a charity and should not be doling out cash to foreign organizations, some of which actively oppose the united states with no oversight. We do not have the money to give. We need to ask a simple question.
▶ 0:23:11Chair Paul: Why are we borrowing money to send money overseas? Even if usaid illuminated the crazy left-wing grants for trance operas, it makes no sense to borrow money to send overseas. Borrowing money to send a charity is like the worker who has no money left saying I see this homeless person, I will go to bank and borrow $1000 to give to this person. That is what we are doing.
▶ 0:23:41Chair Paul: We are borrowing the money we send overseas. That money could be used to pay down our debt and take care of the american people, the very people who pay these taxes in the first place. It is time for a real change. America should not continue to be the world's piggy bank. It is time to end the waste of foreign aid and end the bureaucracy and for once do what is right by the american taxpayer. With that I recognize the ranking member for opening remarks.
▶ 0:24:10Sen. Peters: Thank you Mr. chairman. Mr. chairman, I am very discouraged by this hearing and by the witnesses in particular you have chosen to give a platform today. Instead of having a serious discussion, I am sure we will hear conspiracy theories as this committee holds what amounts to a pep rally in support of president trump's illegal power grab.
▶ 0:24:37Sen. Peters: I certainly agree with this committee that this committee should conduct rigorous oversight of federal spending, including wasteful foreign aid. That is what we should be talking about and we should always be working to sort out and eliminate waste and fraud in all federal programs. This committee has done that for years on a bipartisan basis.
▶ 0:25:01Sen. Peters: It is a big part of what we do every week as we come together to consider legislation to deal with the tough issues we face as a country. Today's hearing, I am sure we will hear many of our colleagues on the other side of the dais cheer on president trump and his cronies like elon musk and their illegal and unconstitutional efforts to cut off foreign aid.
▶ 0:25:26Sen. Peters: It is not only a sham, I think it misses the point of what this administration is really doing and how far president trump will go to hurt american families so they can pay for tax cuts for billionaires. We cannot have a real debate about wasteful spending when president trump has empowered an unvetted billionaire with massive conflicts of interests. Massive conflicts of interest.
▶ 0:25:56Sen. Peters: Hundreds of millions of dollars of government contracts he receives. I hope we will look at those hundreds of billions of dollars of government contracts from elon musk. As he is cutting off funding to programs that clearly the administration does not understand or does not agree with politically. The constitution does not empower a social media billionaire with massive conflicts of interest that has never been vetted to decide on how taxpayer dollars are spent.
▶ 0:26:26Sen. Peters: The constitution does not even empower president trump to make these decisions. The constitution gives congress and only congress the sole power to decide how taxpayer money is spent. For the most part, we passed bipartisan laws to determine how that money should be spent.
▶ 0:26:48Sen. Peters: President trump has directed elon musk and many other cronies to ignore congress, to ignore the constitution and recklessly and illegally cut off funding that congress has passed according to the law. Not only is it illegal, not only is it unconstitutional, but president trump's direction to shutter usaid will have damaging consequences across the globe and here in the united states.
▶ 0:27:14Sen. Peters: I would like to enter into the record numerous statements from organizations and experts that detail is consequences.
▶ 0:27:22Chair Paul: Without objection.
▶ 0:27:25Sen. Peters: That is why my democratic colleagues and I are most concerned about what federal programs will be next. Where will the dominoes fall after usaid? What we next on the chopping block. We know president trump has directed his cronies to shut down the consumer financial protection bureau. Will they halt social security payments seniors, next? Will they stop medicare reimbursements and prevent seniors accessing health care?
▶ 0:27:56Sen. Peters: Will they block disaster aid to states that have suffered hurricanes and wildfires. President trump and his cronies have already hinted that all of those resources americans count on could be shut down going forward. It is not just that it is illegal, it is not just that it violates the separation of powers. The bottom line is these actions hurt american families and it is our job to fight back. That is why democrats will be focused on that today.
▶ 0:28:22Sen. Peters: If this committee is seriously about defending american families and congresses oversight role, april Mr. chairman I know you have said over and over is part of what we were going to be doing here at the committee, then the hearing we have today should be about examining blatantly illegal activities president trump has led to undermine the laws passed by congress and to wreak havoc on the programs and services that support americans.
▶ 0:28:52Sen. Peters: Mr. chairman, you've often talked about how it is congress versus the executive, whoever is in the executive office. That is what is happening. Let's hope we focus on that because we are seeing it clearly happening.
▶ 0:29:07Sen. Peters: As president trump's direction elon musk and his minions have illegally cut off funding that congress passed the support farmers, they have cut off funding to support childcare centers, they have cut off funding for lifesaving cancer research, they have cut off funding for committee health centers, cutting off funding for religious charities and services americans rely on every day. It has all been under the guise of addressing waste.
▶ 0:29:34Sen. Peters: If the administration is seriously about combating waste and fraud, than the president would not have fired 18 inspector general's, the independent watchdog who actually identify waste, fraud, and abuse. Why is donald trump firing the lock stock -- why is donald trump firing the watchdogs for waste and abuse? If the president is serious about addressing waste and fraud is certainly would not have fired the inspector general for the usaid.
▶ 0:30:02Sen. Peters: Let's remember this is not the first time a president has tested the limits of law when it comes to presidential powers. We have seen this movie before. Is the first time republicans in congress have simply rolled over and let a president seize power the constitution assigns to the legislative branch. We have the power of the purse and I've heard the chairman talk about that many times in our meetings. Let's look at an example from history.
▶ 0:30:30Sen. Peters: In the 1970's when richard nixon refused to spend money appropriated for childcare, job programs, environmental cleanup programs, and virtually memory -- virtually every member of congress from both parties rejected that and passed the control act of 1974 which asserted congresses constitutional power. When it passed it passed unanimously. Every republican senator stood up to richard nixon and said this is unacceptable.
▶ 0:31:00Sen. Peters: Clearly that was a time when we do not have feckless republican senators and a great time to look at how we came together to stand up to presidential power. It was not just congress. President nixon lost in the courts over and over again. No judge ever endorsed president nixon's arguments he had the right to ignore the laws of congress. If president trump thinks his actions are lawful than his administration should come forward and be able to answer straightforward questions from congress.
▶ 0:31:29Sen. Peters: They should operate in the light of day instead of trying to hide what they are doing from congress, the courts come an independent watchdogs. I was disappointed that over the last few weeks I had a number of oversight c refused to sign. I hope you would reconsider and I look forward to meeting with you to talk through those letters in the near future. Also, Mr.
▶ 0:31:49Sen. Peters: Chairman, many of the questions we have today about the actions of president trump that has been directed by elon musk is something we should also call in elon musk to ask questions, particular about his numerous and substantial conflicts of interest while he is making these kinds of decisions. I hope that going forward this committee will work to defend congress's role and responsibilities under the rule of law and conduct real meaningful oversight of these lawless actions by the trump administration.
▶ 0:32:19Chair Paul: It is the practice of this committee to swearing witnesses. Will each of you please rise and raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you god?
▶ 0:32:54Chair Paul: Michael shelllenberger is a best-selling author and journalist who writes in a wide range of topics including free speech, censorship, and the environment. He was the committee-based research care politics and free speech at the university of texas austin and also founded the online newsletter public and the recent organizations civilization works. Welcome to the committee. You are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:33:20Mr. Shellenberger: Thank you chairman paul, ranking member peters and members of the committee. Since its creation by president john f. Kennedy in 1961, the united states agency for international development has had as its mission the promotion of america's values of free speech, democracy, and free markets by helping others abroad. The name suggests the organization is focused on aiding poor nations in ways that result in their economic growth.
▶ 0:33:50Mr. Shellenberger: Why has usaid been spending so much money on information control and information operations in the form of demanding censorship by social media platforms and by financing supposedly independent journalism? Why is the united states in general and usaid in particular the largest donor to supposedly independent media worldwide?
▶ 0:34:13Mr. Shellenberger: Usaid in 2021 published a disinformation primer that urged greater censorship by social media platforms as well as a psychological technique to program people project information disfavored by the government without thinking. Usaid may have been funding worthwhile projects and it may be that congress will need to pass legislation to continue this project at the state department.
▶ 0:34:38Mr. Shellenberger: It is inaccurate to suggest usaid closure and freeze on eight will kill african children or cause other harms. The trump administration has already graded a waiver for hiv treatment and resumed aid for tuberculosis and malaria. Usaid health program should be subject to scrutiny given the agency's history of using such programs as cover for other activities including regime change and bio defense research.
▶ 0:35:06Mr. Shellenberger: Under president barack obama's administration, usaid was caught using hiv program to foment rebellion in cuba. Usaid used eco-health alliance to funnel $1.1 million to the wuhan institute of virology that may have caused the covid pandemic. Usaid gave eco-health alliance $54 million during that period, which was more than the $42 million the group received from the pentagon.
▶ 0:35:36Mr. Shellenberger: As such anyone who believes in public health for poor people and poor nations must agree usaid needs to be reined in. That starts with precisely the kind of audit some members of congress are trying to stop. Usaid and all other government agencies must justify what they are spending their money on. The public interest is ensuring every dollar of taxpayer money is justified. As recently as 2021 the mediatek knowledge the obvious. That year the new york times published an article that "U.S.
▶ 0:36:06Mr. Shellenberger: Aid to central america slowed migration -- has not slowed migration and said the reason aid had not slowed migration is because "much of the money is handed over to american companies which swallow a lot in salaries and profits before any services are delivered." that is precisely the reason president trump shut down usaid and demanded an audit.
▶ 0:36:30Mr. Shellenberger: While the subject is on usaid's wastefulness, I would like to focus the committee's attention on usaid's's on usaid's' effort to take control over U.S. journalism at advocate censorship. Usaid censorship and disinformation activities comprised a complete vision of information control and service of regime change that usaid and other government agencies have sought in dozens of foreign nations of the last 75 years.
▶ 0:36:58Mr. Shellenberger: Usaid has been funding censorship worldwide through a countering disinformation program which is part of the consortium for elections and clinical process strengthening. This includes funding for so-called fact checking organizations, including brazil, a country where I'm under criminal investigation for sharing the twitter files.
▶ 0:37:21Mr. Shellenberger: In the world economic forum major usaid contractor introduced which received 472 point million dollars from usaid over last 17 years urged at work because her boycotts to censorship. That was precisely the boycott strategy used by groups with ties to U.S. intelligence community to pressure twitter and facebook to censored this favorite information -- to censored disfavored information.
▶ 0:37:49Mr. Shellenberger: Usaid has also favored information that could be tied to social media accounts to punish individuals for what they say and read online. Mr. chairman, I have much more to say but I will end by saying that congress should defund all and any federal programs and contractors that promote or engage in censorship and propaganda. Recommitment to an america first foreign policy should require an unwavering commitment to free speech.
▶ 0:38:15Mr. Shellenberger: Congress should follow funding to groups including the aspen institute which interfered in the tri-20 election. From should order the -- in the 2020 election. From should order the state department to end all contracts with censorship advocates and misinformation researchers. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:38:31Chair Paul: Dr. william ruger is a foreign policy expert with decades of experience as a scholar, practitioner, executive and military officer. He serves as the president of the american institute for economic research while also serving as a commander in the U.S. navy reserve. He was nominated by president trump to serve as the U.S. ambassador to the islamic republic of afghanistan and was appointed to the fulbright foreign scholarship board at the U.S.
▶ 0:38:59Chair Paul: Department of state in 2020, serving from 2020 to 2023. Welcome to the committee. You are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:39:11Dr. Ruger: Thank you for inviting me to testify about foreign aid. Foreign aid has been pushed to the forefront of the national debate by president trump's inauguration day executive order and what we have seen since with does -- with doge. Critics respond these moves jeopardize demented tearing efforts and threatened U.S. national security. Reform efforts would weaken U.S.
▶ 0:39:39Dr. Ruger: Soft power, create vacuums that will be filled by our adversaries come and hurt our overall committee to compete with china in this era of great power competition. These national security arguments are not compelling and do not provide a sound basis to slow down efforts to reform or cut back on foreign assistance itself. I will address some of these issues on the national security front. Cutting aid is not going to ruin american foreign policy.
▶ 0:40:10Dr. Ruger: The most important determinants of american security do not include "soft power" from foreign aid even assuming foreign aid programs are effective at producing soft power as opposed to our market economy and our great companies as well as our great culture. Instead our relative material power, our military capabilities and our economic and technological strength and our geostrategic advantages are the most important things for our safety and prosperity. Thus the geopolitical implications of the fight over foreign aid are fairly limited.
▶ 0:40:42Dr. Ruger: In terms of our material power, maintaining a large national defense capability second to none is what allows us to defend our interests and tax our territory. Our security is also supported by our geostrategic position. As we deal with the rise of peer competitors, maintaining your military edge is far more important to our security than even the best aid programs.
▶ 0:41:05Dr. Ruger: This combination of ella terry power and ours geostrategic position allows us to enjoy some detachment from problems in the developing world and further reduce the security relevance though not necessarily the humanitarian relevance of many foreign aid programs. We should avoid thinking it is a matter of strategic necessity to be deeply engaged everywhere. Sound geostrategic ngo economic thinking requires prioritization and trade-offs.
▶ 0:41:34Dr. Ruger: We cannot be equally concerned about chinese aid programs in nepal and what this means for U.S. security and prosperity and chinese political penetration of latin america, which could have a lot of ramifications to the united states. Our economic strength is a key cause of our security and our economy is the golden goose. As long as we do not undermine it through wasteful and excessive spending in the debt and deficits that result, poor tax and monetary policy, constraining overregulation or cultural decay.
▶ 0:42:05Dr. Ruger: While foreign aid is a small percentage of the national budget should still be scrutinized for waste and defectiveness. There is also some evidence for aid can have a negative impact on target societies and even harm american soft power, exacerbating anti-americanism by creating winners and losers with the losers blaming the united states for local problems. In egypt a decade ago protesters said obama can take his foreign aid and go to hell.
▶ 0:42:34Dr. Ruger: That is an example of how foreign aid stimulated anti-americanism in these countries. There are numerous studies that show the ineffectiveness of foreign assistance to economic development. Aid spending does not necessarily work to keep states on our side in today's great power competition.
▶ 0:42:55Dr. Ruger: For example usaid did not stop poor african countries from expelling our forces though it is clear it made much sense for those troops to be there the first place. Critics claim such a power that created a vacuum of power the chinese will fill, thus eating our lunch. The problem is more adversaries like china -- that this would necessarily hurt us.
▶ 0:43:22Dr. Ruger: It is not clear the chinese experience in aid will be better than ours at creating soft power. The chinese efforts have been backfiring. I would be happy to say a lot more about that. Critics are claiming too much of what the ministration is doing. The fact is the trump administration is not proposing cutting all assistance.
▶ 0:43:53Dr. Ruger: Secretary rubio recently stated in an interview that we are not walking away from foreign aid, we will be involved in foreign aid. Instead with the administration is doing is trying to make a distinction between aid that can be reasonably argued to advance america's national interest and aid that cannot past a basic smell test like the one senator paul discussed earlier.
▶ 0:44:13Dr. Ruger: If we are going to change our foreign policy to one that prioritizes american national interest and respects the hard-working american taxpayers, then fixing our foreign programs is imperative. Too much spending is disconnected from making a stronger, more secure, and prosperous, to use secretary rubio's three-part test from his confirmation hearings in the senate. Too often it is in the service of questionable social and political goals that many americans find dubious.
▶ 0:44:44Dr. Ruger: Foreign aid will not be the margin by which we win or today's great power competition. It would be wise for us to get our own house in order economically by looking carefully at programs that cannot deliver for our security or are so directly connected to legitimate goals as to be based more on an article of faith than sound analysis I think conservative should be known for. I commend any effort to scrutinize aid and provide accountability so programs can deliver for the american people.
▶ 0:45:14Dr. Ruger: Thank you. Senator johnson?
▶ 0:45:20Sen. Johnson: Unlike our ranking member I appreciate you holding this hearing. Before the pandemic the total federal government spending was $4.4 trillion. The wall street journal reported the first four months of this year we spent $2.43 trillion. We are on a course of spending $7.3 trillion this year six years later. That is a 61% increase while the population has grown 2.6%.
▶ 0:45:50Sen. Johnson: We need to scrutinize all the spending. I don't know manning boards you had up there -- I don't know how many boards you had up there but example after example of outrageous abuse of the taxpayer dollar. The ranking member accused you two gentlemen that you will be peddling conspiracy theories. That all was the truth. You have any idea what the ranking member is talking about?
▶ 0:46:17Mr. Shellenberger: I find it somewhat ironic that one of the greatest conspiracy theories in recent times was the russia collusion hopes which was this idea that president trump was being controlled by vladimir putin through a sex blackmail operations. One of the most wild conspiracy theories created by deep state operatives working on taxpayer funding. Another wild conspiracy theory was the hunter biden laptop was a russian disinformation effort.
▶ 0:46:48Sen. Johnson: The ranking member accused me when I was investigating that of soliciting russian disinformation on that. A senate report falsely accused me of that.
▶ 0:47:00Mr. Shellenberger: Now we know the fbi had the laptop in november or december. They got the aspen institute to engage in what is called brainwashing, convincing journalists and social media platforms there would be a russian pack that fall involving hunter biden and burisma. That is an illegal weaponization of the fbi, of a U.S. government contractor.
▶ 0:47:30Mr. Shellenberger: These things have not been fully investigated but we know thanks to the twitter files that this was the illegal weaponization of our government agencies in order to spread a conspiracy theory in service of demanding censorship which is what they then did with the new york post article came out.
▶ 0:47:45Sen. Johnson: I also have to point out I was a target of that campaign when senator grassley and I received an unsolicited briefing by the fbi that we were targets of russian information. To this day we've not found out who directed that briefing. Mr. ruger, you want to defend yourself from being accused as a conspiracy theorist?
▶ 0:48:07Mr. Geurts: I am international -- Dr. ruger: I am international relations theorist. What I said is within the broad traditional political realism that has served this country well, focusing on the importance of our strength and how we defend and deter against enemies and applying good economic analysis to aid programs and other government programs because they need to pass a cost-benefit analysis.
▶ 0:48:34Mr. Geurts: Too often, especially given what we talked about with the $36 trillion in debt, we are not applying good trade-off decisions in terms of how we spend our money that is one of the reasons why it is really important we focus on this. I applaud what president trump is doing because somebody has to get a handle on this and it is a good stimulant for congress to do its own work to help support the president and making sure we are protecting taxpayer money.
▶ 0:48:58Sen. Johnson: We are very compassionate people. We want to help people. We want to help combat aids and feed the world. Where did usaid go off the rails? It was established in good purpose. Things like radio liberty, those efforts seem to make sense. Where did they go off the rails?
▶ 0:49:19Mr. Shellenberger: For me it is this effort -- the regime change effort that then resulted in this effort that starts in the 2007, 2008, led by usaid, usaid creates and provides all of the initial funding from the state department.
▶ 0:49:37Sen. Johnson: Who was in charge?
▶ 0:49:40Mr. Shellenberger: That was 2008? I am not sure.
▶ 0:49:45Sen. Johnson: Under the bush and ministration it started going off the rails. Mr. ruger, do you have any ideas of when this started going south? Or going left?
▶ 0:49:56Dr. Ruger: One question at the beginning is how effective are these types of assistance programs? You could argue that in some sense this went off the rails from the very beginning because it opens the door to the idea that there is potentially no limit to what could be effective for the united states if we spend that money abroad. That is not the case. There's not been the type of cost-benefit analysis needed.
▶ 0:50:26Dr. Ruger: Part of it is fundamental to our program where you are spending millions and billions of dollars across the globe in a way that is very difficult to achieve accountability, vertically if there within the bureaucracy are less subject to the incentives that care about how this money is spent.
▶ 0:50:42Sen. Johnson: Thank you. Wister chairman. -- Mr. chairman?
▶ 0:50:47Chair Paul: Senator peters?
▶ 0:50:52Sen. Peters: Donald trump and elon musk illegal dismantling of federal agencies will definitely harm the security of american people. We are hearing about their unlawful government actions related to usaid. Let's take a look at their next victim. They have taken action on their next victim which is the consumer financial protection bureau.
▶ 0:51:16Sen. Peters: Conveniently just as president trump's top lieutenant and his mega donor, the man with incredible conflict of interest elon musk is about to launch a new payment system at his company x. That company would have been subject to cfpb regulation. Now trump has decided to dismantle that agency.
▶ 0:51:40Sen. Peters: I may also say the cfpb has received hundreds of complaints about elon musk's other company tesla. A man with massive conflicts, a man who has not been vetted is working to destroy an agency that oversees his operations and operations that have received complaints because the actions he has taken. Cfpb was created by congress with bipartisan support. In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis.
▶ 0:52:08Sen. Peters: Its mission is to protect companies -- to protect americans from scams and predatory companies. Cfpb has improved american lives by capping credit card late fees, bank overdraft fees, reduce junk fees, has banned medical debt on credit reports. I can go on. Now president trump and omb director vought are illegally destroying the agency.
▶ 0:52:36Sen. Peters: This is an agency that has saved american taxpayers $21 billion. And it is in the sight of unvented billionaire elon musk who wants to destroy it because it will oversee his new business venture. With cfpb shuttered students are ours will be at risk of unfair practices including debanking and mortgage fraud.
▶ 0:53:04Sen. Peters: If you look at mortgage fraud changes with the military lending act. Financial institutions taking advantage of the men and women serving our country. They counted on cfpb to protect them. Trump and elon musk get rid of that.
▶ 0:53:25Sen. Peters: With cfpb shuttered seniors, veterans, student borrowers will be at risk of unfair service practices on a regular basis and it will only let companies continue to rip off consumers and get away with fraud. Who will president trump at elon musk's next target be? It looks like it is the federal aviation administration that works 24/7 to provide the safest flight experience across the country.
▶ 0:53:57Sen. Peters: After the january 29 crash at ronald reagan national airport americans are now more than ever concerned about having save air travel. However just days before that tragic crash, president trump encouraged air traffic controllers to resign. We already have a shortage of air traffic controllers and the president urged them to resign knowing full well you cannot just turn on the spec it and hire new controllers when you already have a shortage. It takes years to train air traffic controllers.
▶ 0:54:25Sen. Peters: Before that crash president trump says resign even though we have a shortage. He then tapped elon musk to remake the faa despite his clear conflicts of interest. Elon musk leads the largest company, the faa -- which is regulated by the faa. A theme here. The faa proposed fines to spacex.
▶ 0:54:52Sen. Peters: I believe the last thing americans need is president trump allowing self-interested billionaire with mass conflict of interest to do whatever he wants to destroy agencies that oversee his companies where he is making huge profits. May they will -- maybe they will go after the national highway traffic safety administration.
▶ 0:55:12Sen. Peters: This is ensuring cars are safe and reliable and elon musk is the ceo of tesla and has criticized common sense safety requirements like reporting on crashes that involve his partially automated vehicles. If we continue to let president trump and elon musk unilaterally decide which agencies can function, even exist, our roads and skies will be more dangerous and more americans will die. Or maybe president trump will make good on his view to get rid of fema.
▶ 0:55:42Sen. Peters: We have seen over the past few weeks of his presidency he is again and again willing to peddle misinformation, overstep his authority, and break the law. Getting rid of fema would mean the federal government is a bending americans before, during , and after disasters like wildfires, tornadoes, and even floods. While I am sure everyone agreed fema can and should be reformed I will leave that charge to make sure they better meet the needs of disaster survivors, it still plays a critical role.
▶ 0:56:13Sen. Peters: American lives and helping communities rebuild after increasingly, natural disasters is something we should be focused on. Federal resources and save lives in the aftermath of a disaster. Fema also administers billions of dollars of mitigation grants to reduce the impact of natural hazards which can save lives and protect property. Mr.
▶ 0:56:41Sen. Peters: Chairman, I hope we can look at these other changes we are seeing to see whether or not it is fraud or abuse and whether or not that is something we need to examine. I would hope in future hearings we will take a look at an unvented highly conflicted person making these choices to understand what is behind their actions.
▶ 0:57:04Chair Paul: Senator lankford.
▶ 0:57:08Sen. Lankford: Thanks for being here. Yesterday I released my report called federal fumbles. We regularly put up in front of the american people areas of waste and abuse and fraud or improper payments. We try to highlight those and shine some sunshine on them to hopefully get rid of them and be able to make tax dollars more efficient. Many of those things as you can imagine our foreign aid related.
▶ 0:57:40Sen. Lankford: He highlighted the federal government paid for 12 drag shows in ecuador. Oklahoma taxpayers had to pay for that. The usaid funded fisheries in algeria where they built a fish farm in the middle of the desert among a people that do not eat fish in their normal diet because they live in the desert.
▶ 0:58:07Sen. Lankford: They do not normally eat fish and were not interested in eating the fish but american taxpayers paid for those and that has become an issue for me. There was a study done by the neh on human chimpanzees and climate change in sierra leone. We highlighted how we did a study with oklahoma tax dollars to study the effect of climate change on european butterflies. I don't know why the europeans cannot pay for that.
▶ 0:58:37Sen. Lankford: We did a study on the effects of covid-19 on the russians. Not sure where the russians cannot have paid for that. One of my favorites of the long list of least favorites, we did a study on the benefit of seatbelts and helmets on individuals driving in ghana. I could go ahead and tell you right now seatbelts and helmets will help you. You don't have to pay a dime to do that study. Over and over again we have highlighted.
▶ 0:59:07Sen. Lankford: The difference now and then is there is a bigger megaphone and part of the prostration for my friends on the left is elon musk is daring to tell one billion people on x that this is happening. When it was only a few people at new or my limited following on x, it was ok. If the megaphone gets louder and it gets pointed out mortgage gets more offensive because it is a risk.
▶ 0:59:34Sen. Lankford: I have talked for years about the voice of america and the messaging they put out. It is government paid journalists that are supposed to tell the government story of america internationally. What they're actually doing is talking about murders in america and riots in america and how trump is ruining christianity in america and on and on. The negative stories about america they are telling to the world.
▶ 1:00:06Sen. Lankford: One of my first questions to either of you is about the messaging we put out globally, that we put out with oklahoma tax dollars in american tax dollars to tell the american story and how the american story is being told internationally.
▶ 1:00:20Dr. Ruger: I can speak a little bit from my experience with the fulbright scholarship where I was also chagrined to see some of the people we were thinking about sending a broad clearly did not love this country and clearly had a criticism that I think was not the best message you can necessarily want to see out there in the world.
▶ 1:00:43Dr. Ruger: I also worry about the boomerang effect, not just the message we are sending a broad but because of the nature of technology today these voices that are bent to help create narratives abroad actually coming back and being a form of government propaganda here at home because that message, unlike maybe in the 1950's when we were trying to say subverts communism in greece , that message then comes back here.
▶ 1:01:10Dr. Ruger: The content of that message is so critical it is something that is supportive of their interests and accurate and something that will not undermine support for the united states at home.
▶ 1:01:20Sen. Lankford: You want to add anything to that budget mark Mr.
▶ 1:01:24Shellenberger: Everyone should be free to speak their mind but if we have taxpayers funding this activity they should be talking about how special this country is. That is why so many people are trying to come here. The of anti-americanism and globalism we have seen promoted by these organization is horrendous.
▶ 1:01:41Sen. Lankford: One of global media outlet from the united states consulate like russia today's messaging we have a problem. They spent a lot of time saying we will prove we have a free press by having government paid reporters tell a story. We can point to the cbs, abc and say we have a free press on it. We should be getting our messaging out. One of the quick questions.
▶ 1:02:08Sen. Lankford: The inspector general for afghan reconstruction noted at least $11 million has gone directly to the taliban from our foreign aid. They cannot identify the rest, exactly who were the recipients of that aid. Even the aid going directly to the taliban since we have left afghanistan.
▶ 1:02:28Mr. Shellenberger: What I will point out as there is been a lot of complaints about the inspector general at usaid being led to. What was the inspector general doing? We have seen all of the waste fraud and abuse. What is the point of having inspector general if they will not inspect?
▶ 1:02:44Sen. Lankford: I do have the president nominates a new inspector general quickly. That is an important role for congress to have insight. I would agree your job is to inspect and be able to report back to you for not identifying the waste why are you there?
▶ 1:02:59Chair Paul: Senator blumenthal?
▶ 1:03:03Sen. Blumenthal: I am disappointed that we are not having a serious hearing on how to improve usaid there is room for improvement in every agency as there in an almost everything that we do.
▶ 1:03:21Sen. Blumenthal: This hearing is simply designed to give cover for president trump's unlawful dismantling of a congressionally established agency against the law and against the interests of this country. Against the interests of many in this country, including american farmers who benefit from it.
▶ 1:03:53Sen. Blumenthal: Inspector general of the U.S. agency for international development as submitted a report that I ask be made part of the record if there is no objection and in that report was critical of the so-called pause in foreign assistance funding, saying it has delayed $489
▶ 1:04:25Sen. Blumenthal: Million of food assistance at ports, in transit, and in warehouses, I am quoting come at the risk of spoilage, unanticipated storage needs, and divergent. That is waste in government. It is not just a little bit of waste. It is humongous waste. $489 million in those fees alone.
▶ 1:04:50Sen. Blumenthal: He says the pause in funding reductions in staff, including over 90% of the workforce furloughed or placed on administrative leave has undermined two key oversight mechanisms to ensure accountability over humanitarian assistance, funding, partner vetting, and third-party monitoring. I do not have time to go into the details, but that is also waste.
▶ 1:05:18Sen. Blumenthal: When we talk about the other effects of this pause, let's look at the effect on farmers. American farmers. Who grow the food usaid distributes.
▶ 1:05:35Sen. Blumenthal: American farmers in 2022 alone -- in 2022 alone usaid helped distribute nearly 4 billion pounds of american grown food to 58 million people around the globe. I know that some of my colleagues are reluctant to defend foreign humanitarian aid. It does not always pull well.
▶ 1:06:05Sen. Blumenthal: -- it is not always poll well. It is humanitarian assistance. I think americans are better than trashing the idealistic goals that have motivated our nation over the years. Putting aside the humanitarian instincts behind some of usaid, here is what american farmers have said in reaction to these actions.
▶ 1:06:37Sen. Blumenthal: The president of the iowa farmers union said "usaid is important for farmers and it is unfortunate we would drop those relationships we have built over time." the ohio former union president said "usaid plays a crucial role not only providing food aid to millions around the world but also directly purchasing grain from ohio farmers." ohio farmers are more than capable of rising to the challenge of feeding the world
▶ 1:07:09Sen. Blumenthal: But they need stability to do so. Ensuring usaid, president trump is pulling -- in shuttering usaid president trump is pulling billions of dollars away from american farmers without a second thought. That is a lot of waste and a lot of abuse. The people who are the backbone of food production in this nation.
▶ 1:07:34Sen. Blumenthal: Already a lot of their labor investment produce going to waste as a result of elon musk's power grab. Slash and trash agencies in the name of illuminating fraud and abuse but creating it -- in the name of eliminating fraud and abuse but creating it and profiting from it.
▶ 1:08:03Sen. Blumenthal: Elon musk is giving america the middle finger. Engaging the biggest ties of information in american history, delving into agencies and destroying them when his own corporations profit from contracts with them. And controlling contracts in the future that will benefit his corporations. That is waste and fraud, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:08:30Chair Paul: The accusation or criticism has been made that this is an unserious hearing full of conspiracy theorists. The democrats were asked to participate like they always are the same way we were when we were in the minority. They could have brought a witness. They chose not to even bring a witness. I cannot conjecture as to why, but maybe it is because it is so embarrassing this stuff usaid is spending money on.
▶ 1:08:58Chair Paul: Who could be against editing $2 million for sex change surgeries in guatemala? Who wants to defend that? I've not heard anyone defend the waste and malfeasance as part of their $3 million for girl central climate change. Maybe there is not a witness, may be does not serious, I don't hear anybody explaining why we should continue to do that. There is a legal question.
▶ 1:09:23Chair Paul: There is $40 billion in usaid and they do not spend it at all and it just sits there and the president impounded? This is a real question. I do not think any court will find that the executive branch cannot pause and audit spending. Chuck grassley say and just to -- to just jump to it is illegal and unconstitutional and a tragedy and constitutional chaos -- auditing spending is what government should do.
▶ 1:09:55Chair Paul: Is the traditional oversight that has not been done in a generation. This stuff has been creeping up for a generation. $4.8 million for social media influencers in ukraine. If people want to defend that step forward and defend it. We are finding waste and malfeasance.
▶ 1:10:12Chair Paul: You also have to realize that when you have a social agenda and your social agenda is lgbt, when you take that to a conservative country that has religious problems with that and you want to foisted on them and fly flags, what ends up happening is that does not increase diplomacy, that goes against diplomacy. I don't care what people's views are any of these subjects.
▶ 1:10:37Chair Paul: You can have any view on lgbt but it should not be part of foreign policy's -- should not be part of foreign policy to foist this on people around the world. We are only finding this out because we have a president with the courage, including the advice of elon musk and the advice of a lot of us who been saying for years we need to look at usaid and make sure they are not committing fraud.
▶ 1:11:00Chair Paul: This morning the cfo of fema was fired because she is spending $54 million on luxury hotels for illegal aliens. There is a lot of americans struggling to find work. Laken riley's kilr, we put him up in a luxury hotel in new york. We spent money on his meals and flew into atlanta and then he drifted over to athens and then he killed laken riley.
▶ 1:11:33Chair Paul: Many americans say that is crazy . For once we have the president to say no, to take a padlock on the door and take the name down. Ultimately there will be a legal question. Can he impounded or will it come back to congress? I think the better way is to spend about $30 billion and send $10 billion back. There is a method for doing that and I hope that is what is done. Even on the impoundment question there are questions and I don't think it is ever made it all the way to the supreme court. There is court precedent.
▶ 1:12:04Chair Paul: A pause in funding is not impoundment. A pause in funding to do an audit is good government. The question I have for the panel is this. >> Mr. chairman, may I inquire because the chairman mentioned we don't have a minority witness. I would suggest speaking out of turn because the ranking member is not here and I don't purport to speak for him.
▶ 1:12:34Chair Paul: We are talking your time for next week.
▶ 1:12:38Sen. Blumenthal: I would respectfully suggest we have paul martin, who was fired as inspector general come before us.
▶ 1:12:48Chair Paul: We did not deny any witnesses. Your side to not put forward a witness. I think it is disingenuous. It is a personal attack on me to call this unserious and a bunch of conspiracies. It is an attack on our witnesses. That is a pejorative and that is name-calling. You're welcome to object to things they say and have facts to counter them.
▶ 1:13:14Chair Paul: To call this an unserious hearing -- you said the hearing was not serious. You all chose not to participate in it and that is on you.
▶ 1:13:24Sen. Blumenthal: Maybe we can have a second hearing because this is such an important topic.
▶ 1:13:29Chair Paul: We can have a dozen on this. I am not criticizing your ranking member for being unserious or a conspiracy theorist. He has his opinions. We make our arguments. If you call names and say your ideas are conspiracy theories that is a pejorative and does not get us anywhere. It is also dangerous in the sense that many people who then say it is a conspiracy theory, the government should suppress that. This is what went on.
▶ 1:14:01Chair Paul: We had 23 scientists come forward in scientists come forward and say that the possibility that the virus came from a lab in wuhan was a conspiracy theory, then government pointed back to twitter and others and met them on a weekly basis, trying to suppress. Facebook for a year and a half sent ideas like mind that it came from a lab were to be suppressed.
▶ 1:14:27Chair Paul: Michael shellenberger, if you wouldn't mind responding to how they were trying to suppress.
▶ 1:14:32Mr. Shellenberger: Sure. Anytime you hear anybody say conspiracy theory, you should consider that they themselves are spreading misinformation. We know from internal discussions that those scientists were spreading a lab leak theory. Then they got a phone call from "the higher ups," and they ended up changing their whole hypothesis over a weekend.
▶ 1:15:01Mr. Shellenberger: So we've seen repeatedly that term used to dismiss very serious evidence of misconduct and of actual conspiracies. We seen the rise of the entire censorship industrial complex. There is no theorizing here. These are just the facts of the censorship industrial complex created by the department of homeland security in 2021, really starting in 2020, the governing board was so orwellian that even the democrats had to back away from it.
▶ 1:15:32Chair Paul: Senator hassan.
▶ 1:15:34Sen. Hassan: Thanks, Mr. chair britt I want to thank you and the ranking member. For years, I have worked on a bipartisan basis to reduce waste, fraud, and abuse in the federal government, including with you, Mr. chair. If this committee and president trump actually wanted to reduce waste and fraud, they would work together to support and bolster inspectors general.
▶ 1:16:05Sen. Hassan: Inspectors general are indispensable watchdogs what and by multimillion dollar overpayments to big corporations. Exactly what elon musk claims he wants to root out. To use just the inspector general of the department of health and human services as an example, last year, the director of hhs exposed improper medicare payments after equipment companies charge the government's for thousands of catheters for patients who did not mean it.
▶ 1:16:34Sen. Hassan: Additionally last year, two pharmacy owners went to jail after the hhs inspector general help and cover that they have fraudulently submitted at least $20 million in false claims for cancer medication. All told, the inspector general identified $7 billion last year in waste, fraud, and abuse from the department. Did president trump and elon musk support inspectors general?
▶ 1:17:04Sen. Hassan: No, they did not get president trump illegally fired at least 17 inspectors general in a move to silence those who would provide accountability and oversight in his administration. Since their firing, we are getting a better picture of why they were fired. Yesterday, we found out that the state department is planning to buy $400 million in armored vehicles from elon musk's tesla company.
▶ 1:17:34Sen. Hassan: Elon musk spent $250 million to get president trump elected, and now president trump is returning the favor. After clearing out the watchdogs, the president decided to unleash chaos and confusion on granite staters and americans through an illegal order to cut off nearly all federal grants. These are grants that fire departments count on to upgrade their equipment, police departments used to hire officers to protect our streets, and shelters need to provide homeless veterans a place to sleep.
▶ 1:18:00Sen. Hassan: While federal courts have temporarily halted the president's funding cut off, I continue to hear from organizations that are unable to access the federal funding that they have been awarded, that we appropriated, that is law. This is the real cost of the illegal move by president trump to cut off funding. Granite staters left in the lurch, not knowing how much longer their community health centers will remain open or if their child care facility will be able to stay open and they will be able to go to work.
▶ 1:18:30Sen. Hassan: The american people want relief from high costs come and they want their government to work. But as inflation and egg prices soar, the president fired the very people who root out waste and fraud and have a track record of doing it. Then he illegally took away from law enforcement and community groups.
▶ 1:18:54Sen. Hassan: I urge the president to reverse course and for this committee to work together to find common sense ways to address the challenges the american people are facing today. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:19:03Chair Paul: Senator scott.
▶ 1:19:06Sen. Scott: Thank you, Mr. chairman. This is a great hearing. The federal government is spending money like it is going out of style could last year, it spent $7 trillion. Nobody in this country can do that. Nobody can do it in their personal life, businesses cannot do it, only the federal government. We are being forced to borrow another $1.9 trillion to make up for it. We now have over $36 trillion worth of debt, and we are heading quickly to $37 trillion.
▶ 1:19:38Sen. Scott: In the last four years from when the president has grown to present, the federal government has spent, has increased spending by 53%. A trillion dollars national debt in four years. This is not sustainable. If nothing changes, our federal government is on track to add $1 trillion to the federal debt every 180 days. The cost of the debt is another massive problem. Right now, more than $1 trillion of money that hard-working americans pay in taxes each year is just going to pay the interest on the federal debt.
▶ 1:20:09Sen. Scott: That is a waste. So I'm very appreciative of what president trump is doing, what doge is doing to try to find this waste. They are going agency by agency, one by one to find out how every single dollar is spent, to make sure it is spent in the best interest of the american public. Unfortunately, many democrats among this committee have expressed outrage. The legalities for some of the absurd, wasteful spending is already uncovered.
▶ 1:20:39Sen. Scott: Let's look at usaid. Full funding for al qaeda terrorists to attend college in colorado. They gave $110 million to start a palestinian cement factory. Being used to help hamas build tunnels in gaza. How can you be this stupid? Another $1.5 million to advance diversity, equity, inclusion in workplaces and the business community. How does that help an american?
▶ 1:21:11Sen. Scott: $47,000 for a transgender in columbia. How does that help americans? A multiyear study for the middle east board, covering $164 million of approved grants to radical organizations, $122 million going to groups aligned with designated terrorists. How does that help americans? Billions more for charity's that failed to vent their partners.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Scott: The families that represent, that's not how they want their tax dollars spent. They would rather have their tax dollars spent putting americans first or advancing our interests abroad, not finding some fringe globalist agenda. I'm very appreciative of president trump, I appreciate what doge is doing, and I appreciate marco rubio, ex colleague, is doing. Mr.
▶ 1:22:08Sen. Scott: Shellenberger, doge also found that the by the administration spent my own prescriptions for left-wing media. That did not favor the administration's narrative, now that the administration was essentially financing media outlets. How is this not a conflict of interest, and what you think of this?
▶ 1:22:30Mr. Shellenberger: Yeah. It is a huge conflict of interest, and it is just the tip of the iceberg. What we discovered in our reporting as usaid had been bankrolling an organization called the organized crime reporting project, which has been in the process for the last decade and a half of taking over so-called independent investigative journalism around the world, usually relying on strategic links by the intelligence community with in a to really undermine the independence of investigative journalism.
▶ 1:23:00Mr. Shellenberger: When we started investigating these guys, a $9 million fund just to sue people. It's called reporter's shield, but it is an offensive weapon they used to basically shut down any inquiry into what they are doing.
▶ 1:23:19Mr. Shellenberger: We've now traced that usaid money to investigations essential to the 2019 impeachment of president trump, and and also to the russia gate hoax, particularly spreading misinformation and mall information about trump's alleged ties to the russians.
▶ 1:23:36Mr. Shellenberger: Of course, one of the greatest conspiracy theories of recent era, which alleged that because president trump banks with deutsche bank, and that there were russian oligarchs who also bank with deutsche bank, that there had to be some sort of a conspiracy. So that is just the tip of the iceberg, sir. There's a deep corruption of mainstream media.
▶ 1:24:06Sen. Scott: He talked about how usaid transfers funds between projects, making it hard for anybody to track the funds. Can you elaborate?
▶ 1:24:11Mr. Shellenberger: Sure. One of the media organizations in germany, one of their big television stations, really turned the tables and began an investigation. Usaid admitted on camera that they had routed money from the state department's law enforcement bureau through usaid just for optics regions, -- reasons, admitting on camera that they did that because they knew it would look bad for an investigative journalist organization to be supported by effectively the cops, law
▶ 1:24:42Mr. Shellenberger: Enforcement. That's not good journalism practice. It basically violates code of ethics by every journalism in agency in the world. They have to agree to occp they have to agree to occrp' workplans, and they have to report to key staff. Then afterwords, occrp denied it, said it was not true, just asserted it was false.
▶ 1:25:09Mr. Shellenberger: Really what you are looking at with occrp and interviews as these are really vectors of disinformation. They spread disinformation and then demand censorship on the basis of it. That is what they did with, you know, the covid lab leak, as the chairman was mentioning. First, they spread the disinformation that it was a conspiracy theory that it came from a lab, when of course their own science and suggested that is what it was, and then they demanded censorship on the basis of it.
▶ 1:25:39Mr. Shellenberger: The same thing happened with hunter biden. I think we see the same playbook today could when journalists start to expose these missed deeds -- misdeeds, they start to project, saying "you are spreading conspiracy theories, " which is the basis of censorship.
▶ 1:25:56Sen. Scott: In 24, the biden administration donated money for refugees, and continued to donate hundreds of millions of dollars dropped 2023, including during the israeli-hamas war. We now know hamas terrorists were stealing supplies intended for humanitarian purposes. Was the U.S. government funding a terrorist organization?
▶ 1:26:17Mr. Shellenberger: It sure looks like that. I have not investigated that particular case, but I think one of the big lessons from all of this, those of us who are old enough to remember, what we learned after 9/11 is that with the process of blowback.
▶ 1:26:31Mr. Shellenberger: We had been arming the mujahedin , ended up creating the 9/11 attacks to what we see here, starting to blowback on us when we see the disinformation and censorship being weaponized against the american people, because we have a usaid complex that has been completely unaccountable.
▶ 1:26:53Mr. Shellenberger: Obviously the inspector general was not doing his job right and therefore merits this serious audited I agree with the chair, if there is good stuff they've been doing, and I don't doubt that there has been, they should make the case were to be added back later, rather than we all assume everything is fine.
▶ 1:27:08Sen. Scott: Ok. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:27:15Chair Paul: Senator kim.
▶ 1:27:17Sen. Kim: Thank you, Mr. chairman. There is a room for us to have a debate about the effectiveness and efficiency of foreign aid, but what is happening right now in our nation, this is not the right way to go about it. We talk about, I hear about a pause here, but this is not a pause, we are seeing a gutting of the staff down to approximately 600.
▶ 1:27:40Sen. Kim: If it is a pause to look and reflect and see what is not working, what should not be done, then let's pause on the gutting of the staff, let's pause on the transfer of usaid under the state department. So I just wanted to show that this is not a pause, it is not a review, this is already a re-organization, already a dismantling of usaid as it is.
▶ 1:28:04Sen. Kim: And I set it as someone who a little over 20 years ago stepped into the ronald reagan building for the very first day of my career in public service. I served at usaid. I don't know who else in this room has. But I will just tell you that I was proud to be able to serve at usaid and serve this country.
▶ 1:28:24Sen. Kim: I worked at usaid come I worked at the pentagon, I work at the state department, I've been part of the three d's of our foreign policy, defense, diplomacy, development, and seeing that in action. I disagree with the idea that the type of power, the type of influence that we are trying to move forward on at usaid doesn't matter, that it is only about military power.
▶ 1:28:47Sen. Kim: We seen how, for instance, our response to the earthquake in turkey or the flooding input to in pakistan, how that was able to open diplomatic channels, to move forward, to build on the relationship. It was the work through usaid that was able to get some of our diplomatic efforts, and including our military efforts in, a better position.
▶ 1:29:10Sen. Kim: I say that as someone who walked into the reagan building, there's a reason why usaid is in the ronald reagan building, because ronald reagan himself was a strong supporter of usaid and foreign assistance.
▶ 1:29:27Sen. Kim: "the ultimate importance of the united states security and development assistance programs cannot be exaggerated." he said, "our national interest are inextricably tied to the security and developers of our friends and" allies, and when it came to people criticizing usaid, he said, "you know the excuses.
▶ 1:29:45Sen. Kim: We can't afford for an eight anymore or we are wasting money, pouring into these poor countries, or we can't abide friends from other countries take the money and dislike us for giving it," things we've heard today, and ronald reagan concludes, "well, all of these excuses are just that come excuses, and they are dead wrong." I heard today people talk about usaid as if it is charity. One person said, "foreign aid is not charity.
▶ 1:30:13Sen. Kim: We need to make sure it is well spent, but is less than 1% of the budget and critical to our national security." the person who said that was secretary of state marco rubio when he was with us in the senate. He also went on to say, he urged that president biden move forward with usaid funding, to "counter the chinese communist party's standing global influence." he also said "we don't have to give foreign aid, we do so because it furthers our national
▶ 1:30:46Sen. Kim: Interests. That's why we give foreign aid." so I wanted to reframe that. When I worked at usaid, I worked there under the bush administration, I worked under a republican president, I worked under an administrator there who was appointed by republican president, andrew, who was recently asked, can you specifically respond to what elon musk has done in terms of shutting down usaid, and andrew
▶ 1:31:27Sen. Kim: Natsios said, "it is illegal and it is outrageous." we are standing on our strength as a global leader. This is something I feel so personal, just the demonization of public servants.
▶ 1:31:43Sen. Kim: We can have a debate about foreign aid, but we can do it without demonizing people who are working a difficult and dangerous places, some of them who do not know how they are going to get back home because of how quickly all of this has been shut off.
▶ 1:32:02Sen. Kim: People say what is the value of the american handshake right now, and I think that that has been detrimentally affected and negatively affected over the course of the last few weeks. With that, I will yield the back.
▶ 1:32:15Chair Paul: Thank you. It has been banded about that certain things are illegal. Inspector general's have been let go. It's actually a little more complicated than that. This goes all the way back to andrew johnson and his fight with congress. There was a tenure of office act that was passed, and he could not even file or -- fire members of his cabinet. They were in the same party.
▶ 1:32:46Chair Paul: Johnson at the time had become a republican, being lincoln's vice president. It was finally repealed, but it was disputed. Later in 1926, in myers very U.S., the court ruled you cannot restrict the president because he to hire and fire a cabinet.
▶ 1:33:07Chair Paul: It's gone beyond that, in 20, the cfpb that was referred to earlier, the consumer financial protection bureau, the democrats created this, and they don't want it to ever go away. The funding was supposed to go on forever, and the person in charge was not not to be fired. The corporal you cannot do that. You cannot set up an executive agency under the auspices of the president and say you cannot fire them.
▶ 1:33:30Chair Paul: So here's the question, with the inspector general's, and the trump administration is challenging it, there is legislation saying you cannot fire them. He inserts under the court president, he can. So this is an argument. That is what constitutional law and separation of powers is about. We will find out, whether illegal or legal, but at this point, it is an allegation that it is illegal. With regard to waste and abuse and the outrageous things we are seeing, it should draw the attention.
▶ 1:33:59Chair Paul: But there is also the question of where the money comes from. What we bring in in tax revenue is equal to about four programs, medicare, medicaid, social security, and food stamps would soak up all of the revenue. There's nothing left. Should we vote on a congress for military and nonmilitary, which is called discretionary spending, which is one-third of all spending, it is all borrowed. In $2 trillion, it's all borrowed.
▶ 1:34:31Chair Paul: It's about $40 billion. Do you think they need smaller in number in order to have an incentive to cut out the waste? We will start with Mr. ruger, Dr. ruger.
▶ 1:34:46Dr. Ruger: You are exactly right. There's very little incentive for agencies to get lean when the money keeps coming through the door. Even if you increase the eight or the support, rather, then why would they change? I think this is the case in almost every government agency out there, is that putting it on a diet means that it will actually work better.
▶ 1:35:11Dr. Ruger: When the budgets are bloated, then you see some of these less prioritized or less important projects are not scrapped or subject to the same analysis in terms of their benefits, relative to the cost that we would like to see.
▶ 1:35:28Dr. Ruger: One thing I would like to say also is given the potential for usaid in the state department to pursue different contradictory goals, it's also good governance to actually try to find a in architecture that can make sure that money is spent is actually doing so for a common purpose and achieving a common end as opposed to being potentially contradictory here.
▶ 1:35:52Dr. Ruger: That's one of the challenges that I think secretary rubio is trying to handle with this reform that he has already started down the path for.
▶ 1:35:59Chair Paul: Mr. shellenberger.
▶ 1:36:01Mr. Shellenberger: Yeah. I absolutely agree, you cannot get efficiency if you have a bigger, growing budget. What is this money actually for? I think the fact that they are putting in the state department is correct. This is about, you know, our relations with foreign countries encouraging the kind of governments we want, discouraging the kind of governments we don't want. I call that regime change. That's allowed in the state department.
▶ 1:36:27Mr. Shellenberger: Even on things that seem innocent, food aid, there's been a long literature of academic studies on really a big driver of starvation and hunger in poor countries tends to be war, it tends to be used as a weapon of war. Countries that are so vulnerable that they depend on food imports and cannot afford a replacement if the U.S. were to end those, those are countries that have a huge food sustainability problem. They problems that go much deeper than not getting that my's shipment of food from us.
▶ 1:36:57Mr. Shellenberger: Even when we subsidize american farmers, that is a question that needs to be discussed, and members of congress can debate that. But if you dumb food on poor countries that has been shown to be quite devastating in many cases, undermining the local farmers who are actually required to make those countries self-sufficient.
▶ 1:37:15Mr. Shellenberger: So people who are concerned about helping poor countries to develop, then we have to have an eye toward self-sufficiency and self-reliance and not just a list -- just endless dependence on the united states.
▶ 1:37:28Chair Paul: Apparently I'm the last person, they want me to go vote. I'm going to vote, nobody is here to object. There's one more senator coming, she will gavel it closed when she gets here. Senator ernst, I will let her go as long as she wants, and she gets to end it. If you don't mind.
▶ 1:42:25Chair Paul: >> thank you. All right. All right, we can get started again. I think senator ernst is coming back also. Ok, this is for both of you. How important is it for the administration agency to be completely transparent with U.S. taxpayer funds?
▶ 1:42:52Mr. Shellenberger: I will say I think it is absolutely essential, at least in terms of actual development in the a.I.d. Obviously there are covert operations to carry those out, we have the state agencies that direct foreign policy, but genuinely a public project that is genuinely aimed at public health, that should be transparent.
▶ 1:43:17Mr. Shellenberger: We had huge investments in wuhan, virology, huge problem some had we known about that, the public could have had better regulation and better governance of it. It's one of the many unintended consequences.
▶ 1:43:31Dr. Ruger: Yeah. We talk about these programs being wasteful, and in many cases they are. I think there's something potentially more pernicious, which is why I think shining a light on this and being transparent is important. I think in many cases, these are perfectly designed to try to promote progressive causes of broad and that ideally will have a boomerang effect here at home.
▶ 1:43:59Dr. Ruger: In other words, this is a progressive global prioritization of different policy ideas. You see $5.5 million for lgbtq advocacy in jamaica and uganda.
▶ 1:44:16Dr. Ruger: Bc mental health programs for lgbtq+ youth advocacy in venezuela, for example, this is part of a progressive, kind of progressive political campaign, and I think more and more that that is brought to the for and peoplee understand what is going on, they can discuss whether this supports the national interest as opposed to supporting the interests of, again, many people in america, but not the public good, if you
▶ 1:44:47Dr. Ruger: Will. So, again, shining that light on it will have that disinfected that we talk about their our country's history.
▶ 1:44:56Sen. Scott: So how would you do it? How would you create more transparency?
▶ 1:44:59Dr. Ruger: I mean, one thing is a hearing like this. One of congress' most important roles as an overseer of spending is to shine a light on things. To call people, you know, on the carpet, if you will. I would bring these people who regularly and ask them, why are you spending $6 million for egyptian, you know, educational opportunities. How does that help our national interests? If they have a good answer, great.
▶ 1:45:29Dr. Ruger: Everyone has done their job. But if they can't explain it in open forum and look at the american public is a look, if you are from des moines, iowa, we went you come a hard-working american, to pay for this because of xyz reasons, the american public should be able to say, yeah. That makes sense. A lot of these things we are seeing just don't get I don't understand why we are spending $20 million to tailor a program in iraq through the sesame workshop.
▶ 1:45:55Dr. Ruger: How does that support was secretary rubio talked about in terms of our strengths, our security, or our prosperity? It just does not. It does not pass that test. And I think americans are fed up with that. And, again, we heard about ronald reagan praising these programs, but I'm guessing ronald reagan would not be proud of these programs today.
▶ 1:46:14Mr. Shellenberger: Yeah. I mean, I agree. The whole concept of foreign aid needs to be reconceptualized. If it's part of soft power, than it should be done through the state department. If it's part of genuine economic development, then it should be part of things that we know drive economic development, including cheap energy, infrastructure, development, that's clearly what it has not been about, because it would not be funding these frivolous projects around the world if we were serious about genuine economic development.
▶ 1:46:48Mr. Shellenberger: For me, it is an amazing moment, and I think the fact that it took this dramatic action shows just how burdened that agency was by all sorts of conflicting agendas. I think it is a great time for the congress to, you know, re-create an aid function that is separated from U.S. foreign policy, or at least the soft power parts of it.
▶ 1:47:06Sen. Scott: In your job, what has been your biggest, how do you react on how to be heard, because it is hard, right?
▶ 1:47:20Mr. Shellenberger: One of the things we realize is the way we've imagined with the news media was for a long time, it really was not what we thought it was. There's a really intense level of control that was being exercised by the national security state. We saw in the twitter files. We saw in the files at a whistleblower gave to us, a former ministry of defense contractor from britain, you had a dod contractor in the united states, on a kind of limited hangout, describing how the U.S.
▶ 1:47:51Mr. Shellenberger: Government and british government really had exercised serious control over the news media, since the war two. That all started to break apart with the rise of social media. Social media at first was being used to foment regime changes in the middle east, the arab spring, revolutions in eastern europe.
▶ 1:48:09Mr. Shellenberger: Then when trump was elected in 2016, there was really a turning inward, a turning against the american people for a counter populist effort by the intelligence agencies as well as by usaid, into participating in effectively regime change operations in the united states.
▶ 1:48:28Mr. Shellenberger: That included this revelation that much of the investigative journalism that usaid has been finding since around 2008, through o things likeccrp, were really aimed at gaining control over information environments around the world.
▶ 1:48:45Mr. Shellenberger: We would not have known that without the twitter files which revealed the industrial complex, seeking to censor americans, disfavoring information, accurate information around the covid origin,. Around the covid vaccine for may, this is the golden age of journalism.
▶ 1:49:11Mr. Shellenberger: You can actually find sources of information outside of a tiny, narrow band of sources that we had between world war ii and really, you know, the early 2000's, 2010's, with social media arose. It was a revolt of the public, now we see a revolt of the elites, demanding we put the genie back in the bottle. I think long term it will not work out. It really took someone like elon musk to unleash the full potential of social media, and you see podcast playing this massive row. I think it's a revolutionary moment.
▶ 1:49:39Mr. Shellenberger: You did a huge moment in american foreman policy, a huge political transformation at the same time of this media transformation and revolution.
▶ 1:49:49Dr. Ruger: Yeah. Just to add to that, my institute, the american institution for economic research, you saw our institution and the office of the great banking declaration, including I think the incoming head of the nih, being subject to claims of disinformation and attempts to squelch our voice in trying to get the message out about different public policy approaches to how to handle all covid pandemic.
▶ 1:50:17Dr. Ruger: So it is not just happening abroad, it is happening here at home, and, again, I applaud what we've seen with the opening of twitter and x, making that much more of an open forum. And, again, I think generally speaking.
▶ 1:50:32Sen. Scott: You see a lot of money being paid to researchers to "study" information. Can you translate how that research can translate into action to take down constitutionally protected speech, especially here in the united states?
▶ 1:50:47Mr. Shellenberger: Sure I'm happy to talk about that. You have to understand the social media was first used by, you know, the U.S. government to foment regime change in the middle east and eastern europe.
▶ 1:51:03Mr. Shellenberger: After trump was elected, those tools were brought back here, and there was an effort to create this conspiracy theory that president trump was somehow controlled by the russians, and then with covid, we saw the rise of basically department of homeland security asking four separate groups, the university of washington, the stanford internet observatory, the atlantic council, and graphica, to create little committees of experts to flag with they call misinformation, was often
▶ 1:51:33Mr. Shellenberger: Disfavored information, often accurate information, first around the administration then around covid in 2021, when they were able to basically demand facebook and twitter that they take outposts they thought were contributing not just false information about the wrong narrative, including true stories of vaccine side effects that were contributing to vaccine hesitancy.
▶ 1:52:01Mr. Shellenberger: The good news is congressman jim jordan's committee on the house side subpoena, had witnesses, whole elaborate process. Stanford's shut down, under that it was engaged in sensitive. I think with -- inch censorship.
▶ 1:52:22Mr. Shellenberger: I think we've been able to push back, and president trump has signed an executive order, but it was a dark moment over the last 10 years, where we saw a whole set of groups that were involved in regime change operations abroad start to turn those inward against us.
▶ 1:52:37Sen. Scott: Senator ernst.
▶ 1:52:39Sen. Ernst: Thank you, Mr. chair, and thanks to our witnesses for being here today for this important hearing. All americans should be able to take great pride in our generosity, and the government agency agencie coordinating aid efforts should be eager to share thes details about how their use of taxpayer money makes the world a better place, yet the hard truth is, as we've seen, usaid has been out of control for decades.
▶ 1:53:13Sen. Ernst: There's no shortage of questionable usaid projects. For example, a $20 million grant to the sesame workshop nonprofit to create an iraqi version of sesame street. More than $9 million intended for civilian food and medical supplies in syria ended up in the hands of violent terrorists. .
▶ 1:53:36Sen. Ernst: And another 1, 20 $7 million was designated so-called reintegration gift bags, which may even include a barbie doll, for deported central americans. It was also $68,000 awarded for dance classes in no there there -- in none other than will hand, china.
▶ 1:54:04Sen. Ernst: After being stonewalled by usaid for years, I found that economic funds meant for ukraine were instead paying for ukrainian models and designers to attend fashion weeks in new york city, london, and paris. And, Mr. chair, I asked unanimous consent to enter my oversight letters and usaid's responses into the record.
▶ 1:54:25Sen. Scott: Without objection.
▶ 1:54:27Sen. Ernst: Thank you, Mr. chair. Usaid is notorious for exploiting loopholes come as was exposed. By law, all public spending is required to be publicly available on usaspending.gov. We've known for a while that Dr.
▶ 1:54:47Sen. Ernst: Fauci used nih funding to finance that coronavirus research at the wuhan institute of virology, but it took a washed out to find that usaid was finding it, too. In fact, the bulk of the money came from usaid. Yet, no grants to the chinese lab appear on usaspending.gov. It was hidden from the public through layers of sub awards.
▶ 1:55:19Sen. Ernst: My push was successful, and the group is now barred from receiving U.S. government grants. But this is why my tracks act must become law, to prevent money being spent to china, the taliban, or any foreign adversary. Every grant recipient must be disclosed to ensure accountability, and we should not stop there.
▶ 1:55:41Sen. Ernst: My bipartisan stop secret spending act introduced what ranking member peters would add additional transparency to federal spending. Mr. shellenberger, I will start with you, please, why is usaid so secretive about how it spends billions of taxpayer dollars? Is it to avoid the public outrage over the waste, or is there something more nefarious there?
▶ 1:56:08Mr. Shellenberger: Thank you, senator. Thank you for your leadership to bring transparency and accountability to aid. The fact it appears that the U.S. government funded the creation of the virus that caused the global pandemic.
▶ 1:56:28Mr. Shellenberger: We also know that, you know, president barack obama had band that research, and that anthony fauci had created a workaround to get around that and move that research to wuhan institute of virology.
▶ 1:56:45Mr. Shellenberger: One of the claims, of course, that was made right after senator cotton raised the idea that maybe you did leak from a lab, anybody who had just googled virus lab leaks would have discovered that there had been years and years, maybe decades of news stories about viruses leaking from labs, a very common thing.
▶ 1:57:09Mr. Shellenberger: It was one of the main reasons that we wanted to end the function research, because we knew there was a high risk of something leaking from a lab. I applaud your work. We need more transparency with it. As I mentioned before, some part of that motivation may have been to hide regime change operations that were run by usaid in concert with the regime department.
▶ 1:57:36Mr. Shellenberger: We should do it in partnership with the cia and not in a charitable organization, because if you genuinely want people to trust in that or other -- trust in vaccines or other public health measures, it's a terrible thing to believe that maybe it's part of some counterterrorism operation or some manipulation by the U.S.
▶ 1:57:53Mr. Shellenberger: Government, that they have some political motivation or some regime change motivation, if it's truly charitable support for things like, you know, for good causes, there has to be a firewall between that and what the cia as a are doing.
▶ 1:58:08Sen. Ernst: Yeah. Transparency, transparency, transparency. It is so important. I will continue with you, and then, Mr. ruger, you can add your thoughts as well. Absent a forensics audit by the trump administration, do you think we would have ever known the full depth of usaid's spending or misspending in this case?
▶ 1:58:33Mr. Shellenberger: No. Obviously the administration is pursuing a model that silicon valley has use for a long time, which is that you do need to make changes to actually see what is going on. So yeah. I think it is an incredible moment. Of reform I wish it were bipartisan.
▶ 1:58:52Mr. Shellenberger: The last time in the united states was of course the mid-1970's, we had the charge committee hearing exactly 50 years ago this year that were bipartisan that reveals much of the abuses of power by the caa, -- the cia, by the fbi fit I hope the democrats will join the senators in pushing for those reforms, because obviously in the interest of all of us, all americans, and in the past, the fbi had been weaponized against
▶ 1:59:25Mr. Shellenberger: Russia. Recent targeting of the right wing populist. Not letting the state be of use for political reasons. Next time you never know, it could be weaponized against the left again. So I hope democrats will join you in making this a new push them and I applaud those republicans for taking a financial, for pushing for greater disclosure, greater transparency, greater accountability. And I just thank some greater clarity of what does the united states want its interaction with the world to be?
▶ 1:59:54Mr. Shellenberger: Are we still in the period after world war ii until today, or do we need to rebalance that relationship? The public voted for a rebalancing, 20 more america first agenda. I also don't think americans want to completely withdraw from the world, but, again, I do think that some basic hygiene is an order in terms of separating out what is genuinely charitable or development activities from what is regime change, you know, censorship, disinformation, information control activities.
▶ 2:00:23Sen. Ernst: I agree. Thank you. Mr. ruger, do you have thoughts as well?
▶ 2:00:30Dr. Ruger: Sure. What doge is doing is a form of creative destruction, right? Breaking through the status quo, getting this in front of the americans' minds and in front of the elites also.
▶ 2:00:47Dr. Ruger: Too often, things in washington tend to be on autopilot good as you know, there are things that we could be focused on him and the federal government does so much, that you actually focus our attention on these things and put them under the microscope is challenging, even when it is pretty obvious to some of the experts out there. How do they get that up there? I think what elon musk has been able to do, and, again, through president trump's leadership, is to make sure that this does not disappear, there's there's sustained attention to it.
▶ 2:01:17Dr. Ruger: That is going to mean that some will occur, right? You will have to put holds on things to make sure we are not spending wastefully, and I think that that, on net, is going to be valuable as we try to reform the federal government, particularly in light of the fact that we are $36 trillion in debt.
▶ 2:01:34Dr. Ruger: We are spending my children's money and your children and grandchildren's money, we are spending their money now, and we better make sure that if we are going to do that, because sometimes it is necessary to take up debt, for example, for purposes of fighting war, that we are doing it for good reason. That we are really rinsing out the power of government spending and making sure that only what survive is necessary.
▶ 2:02:00Sen. Ernst: Thank you. There are so many analogies that we could use, you know, we are breaking up the boulder a federal government, and there are some gems that we will be able to pull out of there, but the rest is rubble, and it needs to go away.
▶ 2:02:16Sen. Ernst: I know from the chairman, chairman paul, senator johnson, senator lankford, and I have all engaged in these efforts, each of us, for over a decade now, in attempting to identify the waste, the fraud, within our federal government, trying to get those reforms over the finish line, and it was not until we had the trump presidency and the appointment of those in the department of government efficiency, with elon musk, that we actually have the platform now to get it done.
▶ 2:02:48Sen. Ernst: So I'm really grateful that we have that opportunity, the opportunity to do that now. I know I'm way over, but we will go ahead and close out. But I will give you some closing thoughts as well. And I just want to be clear, you know, as we are talking about this, there are many other groups that are supported by usaid that are doing great work. As I've said, there are some gems amongst the rubble.
▶ 2:03:15Sen. Ernst: There are programs that help us care for orphans, there are programs that help us care for people with hiv. Those are important programs. But imagine how much more good work could be done if we use those dollars that instead ended up enriching terrorists and mad scientists in adversarial countries?
▶ 2:03:40Sen. Ernst: After keeping the spending record hidden from taxpayers and congress, usaid employees are now protesting the review of agency's records by president trump's department of government efficiency. It is pretty outrageous. It's no surprise that washington insiders are more upset at doge for trying to stop wasteful spending than at usaid for misusing their constituents' tax dollars.
▶ 2:04:08Sen. Ernst: The question that we really should be asking at this point is and why usaid's brands are being scrutinized about why it took so long -- grants are being scrutinized but why it took so long. I want to thank you both for being here and sharing your thoughts. I think it was a very important committee meeting here in the homeland security and governmental affairs committee.
▶ 2:04:35Sen. Ernst: With that, I want to thank our witnesses for joining us here today to share their testimony and their expertise with the committee. The record for this hearing will remain open for seven days, until 6:00 p.m. On friday, february 20, 2025, for the submission of statements and questions for the record. The hearing is now adjourned.
▶ 2:04:56Sen. Ernst: [laughter] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]