▶ 0:16:51>> I want to welcome everybody to what I think will be a nice journey for this committee, the highway bill. We have the pleasure of working on it in this committee. I want to express all of our thoughts and prayers for our colleague senator cramer who had an accident a few days ago. I will miss him next to me.
▶ 0:17:22He is a wonderful member of the congress. He had a fall on ice. Let's hope he gets a quick recovery. Thank you for joining us this morning to continue our oversight of the limitation of the iiha on the transportation act. One of the components of the iija.
▶ 0:17:49This hearing comes at a critical time I think as we approach the expiration of these provisions at the end of 2026. We want to continue what is working but discontinue what isn't working. Since the enactment on november 15, 2021, transportation shareholders -- stakeholders have been delivering on its promise but at the time experiencing some challenges.
▶ 0:18:15We have some of those stakeholders today to provide us with an on the ground update of the project in rural and urban communities. The federal highway formula program received 90% of funding which was something that I strongly supported. This funding has provided states with certainty and flexible project eligibility for americans across the country.
▶ 0:18:43In my home state of west virginia that is upgrading and modernizing our roads and bridges which will connect our community's to economic opportunities. I also champion common sense provision so communities are not stopped waiting to realize the benefits they will bring.
▶ 0:19:03The I ija codified the one decision policy that expedites or should expedite the environmental review process for certain project by setting a two-year goal and allowing the use of the single coordinated process to develop an environmental document. I'm curious to hear from our witnesses today if these provisions are being used and whether they have the desired impact.
▶ 0:19:32Despite the many benefits I'm aware we have some challenges with implementation. Inflation is certainly a contributing factor. It has eaten into the overall funding increase provided by the iija and increased project costs. I look forward to witnesses sharing the wheel world -- real world impacts. The grant program established by the iija have been very slow in achieving congressional intent.
▶ 0:20:01These programs require significant time and money from eligible applicants and once a grant has been awarded it was often taking more than a year to be negotiated and signed by the prior administration. This slowdown has contributed to a ballooning amount of unused obligation authority that must be sent back to the states as part of a process known as the august redistribution.
▶ 0:20:29In 2024, that amount was $8.7 billion. This results in an end of the fiscal year scramble as states put that amount of funding to use often putting it towards lower priority projects. We advanced a bipartisan fix to help with this issue last year. The challenge remains and is growing. We will learn more about the experience applying for and managing a discretionary grant today.
▶ 0:20:57In addition, the implementation of the iija was clouded by the overreach of the prior administration. My colleagues have often heard me talk about two examples of overreach. A december 16 policy memorandum was issued. The greenhouse gas final rule. The goal of this overreach was simply advancing the priorities of the prior administration, even when they were specifically considered by this committee and excluded from the I I ja.
▶ 0:21:29It took more than a year for the prior administration to collect -- correct their misstep and require litigation from 22 states and action by the trump administration to end the unauthorized greenhouse gas performance measure final rule. With the opportunities of the iija, I look forward to receiving testimony from our panel of witnesses.
▶ 0:21:54This review of the world world -- real world impacts on what is working and what is not working. We will inform the committee on the bipartisan work on the bill. Thanks to the witnesses and members for participating today. I recognize ranking member whitehouse for his opening statement.
▶ 0:22:13Sen. Whitehouse: Thanks to our witnesses for joining us. Infrastructure week has become something of a long-running joke until four years ago when democrats and republicans turned together and passed the bipartisan infrastructure law that made long-overdue investments in our roads, bridges, drinking water, wastewater and other systems of service as the backbone of our nation's economy. It was a monumental first step.
▶ 0:22:47Sen. Whitehouse: About one third of america's 620,000 bridges need repair. Nearly 42,000 of those bridges are considered structurally deficient and need replacing. Our country needs more infrastructure investment.
▶ 0:23:01Sen. Whitehouse: I'm eager to join with my republican colleagues to take stock of our bipartisan structure law, craft policies to fix our aging roads and bridges and pass a package before the current law expires in september, 2026. This is a reasonable cause of action. In ordinary times we simply go forward with it.
▶ 0:23:28Sen. Whitehouse: Unfortunately, we have a president who claims powers to himself outside the constitutional order, even when the law says plainly otherwise. For example, in the bipartisan infrastructure law it says it shall be spent building out electric vehicle charging infrastructure. This administration canceled approvals and froze funding way after time for executive veto had passed.
▶ 0:23:58Sen. Whitehouse: They want us to believe they are taking time to review it. This is a law that members of both parties past. The ongoing violation is not only illegal, it is costing jobs around the country. Finding our competitiveness and accelerating climate change, which is already costing families thousands of dollars in grocery bills. In my home state of rhode island we have urgent work to do to replace or repair bridges.
▶ 0:24:28Sen. Whitehouse: The washington bridge served 19,000 vehicles every day before it experienced structural concerns. It has been more than a year since the bridge was shut down allowing us more time and traffic. Many who live on the other side of the bridge from essential services like hospitals. The project was awarded grants from programs and it is waiting on both.
▶ 0:24:56Sen. Whitehouse: We have other major bridges that need urgent attention. 15 bridges on the interstate 95 corridor through rhode island terry 185,000 vehicles daily and it billions of dollars worth of freight. The project was awarded funding from the iija bridge investment program under the iija -- under the iija.
▶ 0:25:20Sen. Whitehouse: Our historic bridge, a gorgeous bridge if you could describe a bridge as gorgeous requires repairs and upgrades to address corrosion in cables due to higher humidity driven by climate change. This project could achieve hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cost savings if implemented by extending the life of the bridge by 50-75 years.
▶ 0:25:50Sen. Whitehouse: This administration refuses to sign the grant to allow access to those funds. The federal government was a committed partner in the effort to rebuild. Now we have an administration canceling or delaying funding nationwide putting our bridges, safety, and even lives at risk. Communities are now questioning whether the funding will ever be delivered to the projects that they scoped, planned, and started building.
▶ 0:26:20Sen. Whitehouse: They presently get no answers to those questions. Just what I call the phone bank of invasion, uncertainty, unanswered calls and emails. There are new ideas out there too. The department of transportation says we need a high marriage rate and birth rate to qualify. Republican colleagues from ohio, west virginia, wyoming won't do well under this directive.
▶ 0:26:46Sen. Whitehouse: The department of transportation plans to unilaterally amend the general terms and conditions of existing grant agreements to impose ideological preferences. When a state or local government signs a contract with the federal government for an infrastructure project they expect and rely on the federal government to honor its contractual obligation.
▶ 0:27:09Sen. Whitehouse: They do not expect to receive a notice telling them the signed contract has been unilaterally canceled, paused, changed by the federal government. This kind of uncertainty gives shovels from touching the ground. It is the law. We have a lot of good bipartisan work to do to write the next surface transportation reauthorization.
▶ 0:27:36Sen. Whitehouse: I speak for all of us when I say we are ready to roll up our sleeves and pass the next authorization, together. It will be pointless unless and until the administration respects article one of the constitution and its own obligation under article two to faithfully execute the law. It is article one for reason.
▶ 0:28:02Sen. Whitehouse: We are to have coequal branches of government with checks and balances, not rubberstamps. First is the legislative branch, congress, us. Until our existing laws are respected, the work that we has a congress and committee put into writing new laws will cease to matter. It is time to stand up to the american people and for our democracy to end this nonsense. Thank you.
▶ 0:28:28Chair Capito: Thank, senator whitehouse, I will turn to our witnesses for their opening statement. Our first witness is russell murray, tuition or at the georgia department of transportation. Mr. mcmurray is testifying on behalf of highway and transportation officials. As commissioner of georgia dot he leads a staff of over 5000 and has an operating budget above $5 billion.
▶ 0:29:00Chair Capito: I recognize Mr. mcmurray and thank you for coming.
▶ 0:29:03Mr. Mcmurray: Thank you for this opportunity. I'm russell mcmurray, the chairman of the georgia department of transportation. It consists of the 50 state dot's and the district of columbia. The video playing highlights successes from the iija in georgia. From maintenance to large capital projects.
▶ 0:29:27Mr. Mcmurray: The georgia dot we recognize mobility of people safely and efficiently is more than just about progress. It is about a quality of life and the economy. The iija federal surface transportation funding has absolutely been vital to every state dot essential to move people and goods.
▶ 0:29:50Mr. Mcmurray: Gdot delivers projects from across a very diverse state from our coast, mountains, from rural georgia where agriculture business is our number one economy to metro atlanta with over 6 million people. The core iija formula programs gives states funding certainty to plan and deliver for the future. Federal funding is a foundational investment.
▶ 0:30:16Mr. Mcmurray: Vital for every state to have a good repair of the highways and bridges. In georgia, 80% of our capital maintenance graham from the -- capital maintenance program from the iija. In addition to the foundational investments, iija has supported major capital projects like shown on this video.
▶ 0:30:44Mr. Mcmurray: Two of the projects were on the top 100 bottlenecks list and have a combined cost of 3.2 billion dollars. Funding was made possible in large part by the iija funding and using a design finance contracting method. Just to bottleneck projects in georgia consume two years of our total federal funding. I'm sure your state has a bottleneck somewhere that needs some work. It's great to see these large projects on video.
▶ 0:31:15Mr. Mcmurray: I want to remind people that a rural bridge might have a significant economic impact as well. If the former can't get across the market efficiently -- if a farmer can't get crops to a market efficiently, that is an impact on the bottom line. Every state has needs when it comes to bridges and structures. A core program like the surface block grant program and bridge formula program has been especially helpful in replacing rural bridges.
▶ 0:31:47Mr. Mcmurray: Continue federal investment is very important because bridges are just like us. They are getting older every day. The older I get the more ailments I have. Iija increased funding levels for the highway safety improvement program by 30%. This critical investment is helping states reduce fatalities on our nation's roadways and provide fax ability -- flexibility in georgia for safety education programs.
▶ 0:32:15Mr. Mcmurray: We partner with private organizations like we are teachers to develop age-appropriate k-12 curriculum. A nonprofit facing illuminating traction in high school students for safe driving zones. I have shared additional examples of the many iija successes. I share some challenges as well like cost increases.
▶ 0:32:40Mr. Mcmurray: When it comes to funding I look at the charles dickens classic, it is the best of times, it is the worst of times. Best of times for funding, worst of times due to cost. Georgia has experienced significant cost increases that have eroded the buying power of what was intended. In georgia, we have seen 60% increase in bridge cost. 66% in resurfacing costs.
▶ 0:33:07Mr. Mcmurray: Over 115% in widening prospect -- projects. It is a result of so many discretionary programs were so many of them on the federal highway alone. It supports using congressional grants to close the funding gap for most expensive projects. We need to make sure there projects are national or regional interests. The iija have been slow to pull away in state dot's and local governments have been challenged.
▶ 0:33:39Mr. Mcmurray: One great in georgia took 31 months from the notice to execution. One federal decision, being included in iija was an important step in the right direction. We look forward to your continued support for improving the iija. Georgia has made progress on delivery permitting by state funding federal resource positions and co-locating them in a central office to do the work as a team.
▶ 0:34:07Mr. Mcmurray: We thank you for your leadership , focus, proven transportation for the nation. I look forward to any questions.
▶ 0:34:14Chair Capito: Thank you. Our next witness is Mr. gary johnson. Vice president of grant construction and testifying on behalf of the transportation and construction coalition. The tcc is a partnership of 34 trade organizations and labor unions representing hundreds of thousands of individuals looking to build, modernize, and maintain systems. I recognize Mr. johnston for five minutes.
▶ 0:34:47Mr. Johnson: Iq for convening the hearing. Specializing in infrastructure projects while also building many of the standard day today roads that we all drive on. I'm here with the tcc, the partnership of 34 national trade associations and labor unions.
▶ 0:35:14Mr. Johnson: Thanks to the bipartisan leadership of this committee in passing the infrastructure investment and jobs act in 2021. My company and many others are experiencing record opportunities that allow us to enhance safety and mobility throughout the U.S. to date, states have committed $183 billion in iija highway and bridge formula funds. At least one in nearly every U.S. county.
▶ 0:35:45Mr. Johnson: This includes 2300 projects in west virginia and almost 500 projects in rhode island. Projects across the U.S. are grounding an increase in heavy equipment cells. Record employment levels for highway and bridge construction. Outcomes like these are prove the law is working as intended. While undeniable progress is underway I would like to highlight three areas for further improvement.
▶ 0:36:15Mr. Johnson: We must continue to invest and ensure the highest return among resources. While iija -- delivering the surface transportation network deserves and needs is not just a five year investment.
▶ 0:36:38Mr. Johnson: Accordingly, the next multi-year bill should preserve and grow current highway and public transportation investment levels using a user fee revenue source that captures every vehicle on the road. The impact of these investments is clear. Granted we have seen proper funding and proper project planning.
▶ 0:37:02Mr. Johnson: California's highway with local agencies is a collaborative contracting method to face the project in manageable sections and leverage state and federal funding to deliver critical infrastructure years ahead of schedule and under budget.
▶ 0:37:22Mr. Johnson: As a key first step towards achieving the goal in continued investments, we urge all committee members to cosponsor legislation from spenders -- senators fisher, lammas, to make sure they join their fellow motorists in contributing to the investment and improvement of our nation's roads. Second, congress must address ways to ensure america does not impede progress.
▶ 0:37:53Mr. Johnson: The tcc fully supports by america's objective. Strengthening U.S. manufacturing and offering two ways to further improve that. First, to prevent disruption. Tcc encourages congress to preserve the exemption for aggregates and materials included in the iija. All areas of the country do not have local access to all of the cement, asphalt binders needed for paving jobs.
▶ 0:38:28Mr. Johnson: The tcc urges transparency and certainty in the waiver process. Federal agencies should develop a publicly successful database by america's compliant materials and products. To provide stakeholders with procurement options upfront. The fha recently announced a rollback that announced -- making this recommendation extremely timely.
▶ 0:38:56Mr. Johnson: One state department of transportation took 14 months to receive a waiver for submersible pump when two other states received approval for the same product in much shorter period of time. There needs to be consistency. Finally, our employees are our greatest asset. They need additional legislation to go home safe every day.
▶ 0:39:25Mr. Johnson: In 2022 there were 96,000 work zone crashes, 37,000 injuries, almost 1000 fatalities. The iija made important investments like the highway safety improvement program including the use of transportation systems. Next time it should incentivize states to go further in implementing enforcement measures. I thank the committee for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:39:52Mr. Johnson: I encourage each of you and your staff to talk to a contractor in your state or trade association and go visit a job in your state. Talk to the men and women doing the work. Thank you.
▶ 0:40:03Chair Capito: Thank you Mr. johnson. I have done that and will do it again. It was a great visit. Our final was it -- visit is michael carol. The deputy managing director of the office of transportation and infrastructure for the city of philadelphia. How in the world you say all of that? In this role, he coordinates critical functions including the department of streets.
▶ 0:40:34Chair Capito: His oversight includes infrastructure systems made up of more than 2500 miles of street and 300 20 bridge structures. I now recognize Mr. carol for five minutes.
▶ 0:40:47Mr. Carroll: Thank you. I serve as president of the national association of officials and deputy manning director for the office of transportation and infrastructure in philadelphia. We oversee the delivery of projects with our streets department and the pennsylvania department of transportation.
▶ 0:41:11Mr. Carroll: The federal funding support through the infrastructure investment and jobs act was a lifeline to overcome decades of incorrect infrastructure safety and making opportunities for communities with real needs. Philadelphia under the connected communities program reconnects a working-class philadelphia community that was sit in half by construction on interstate 676. Locally known as vine street expressway.
▶ 0:41:40Mr. Carroll: Another example improve transportation infrastructure along the roads constructing it disproportionally to deaths and serious injuries. Our partnership with penndot was a good model for the rest of the country. Our state and federal partners acknowledge the city is closer to the people we all serve and we are committed to and getting effective public service and faithfully implementing the laws and policies.
▶ 0:42:08Mr. Carroll: Iija discretionary programs enable local government partnerships and capacities with state dot's. Our penndot partners argue for direct funding because they could take the burden off of penndot. Any future transportation bill should consider direct funding to keep decision-making as close to people as possible. People who live and work in philadelphia see iija results.
▶ 0:42:36Mr. Carroll: We have paving and safety through our network. We completed our repairs and reopened the montgomery avenue bridge. We expect our mlk bridge serving business districts will be up no later this year. We see improvements in our infrastructure and airport terminal. We have begun work reducing pollution to stormwater and contamination. Our contracting community has risen to the challenge as well.
▶ 0:43:04Mr. Carroll: We have attracted new construction contractors to businesses in philadelphia and the work attracted young americans to the construction industry and help us retain tradesmen. This is reversing a spiral in lost talent and knowledge that could affect infrastructure nationwide.
▶ 0:43:25Mr. Carroll: The federal government should ensure funding rewards move towards completion and help us avoid added costs that come with uncertainties and delays. The march toward obligation is intensive it means spending local dollars and racking up contractors and other businesses to seek opportunities. Everyone involved takes on the risk with trust that the federal government is a partner.
▶ 0:43:50Mr. Carroll: Even when there is disagreement over program purpose, honoring these commitments should be the priority. When a program is targeted for the use of certain words, awards like projects for the belles mills bridge and green valley bridge become that risk. These historic bridges serve over 13,000 vehicles per day and urgently need repairs.
▶ 0:44:16Mr. Carroll: Like other residents, in other cities, philadelphia is one of effective government that produces results. No one wants my opinions about what carbon dioxide does in the atmosphere. Streets that were never underwater are now underwater every spring break.
▶ 0:44:35Mr. Carroll: Local residents expect if we follow rules that were given to us at the time and the federal government awards us funding they will honor these commitments regardless of who is in charge. The best defense you could offer to combat risk and uncertainty is to take a bipartisan stance in favor of stability, continuity, results. Thank you.
▶ 0:44:58Chair Capito: Thank you very much. I will start with a very general question for all of you. You have touched on this, all of you have in your statement. Concisely, what part of the iija had the greatest benefit and which one has presented the greatest challenges?
▶ 0:45:19Mr. Mcmurray: The greatest benefit comes from what we consider the core formula programs, that being the national highway priority program, surface transportation block grant, the most flexible to use for the states. I remind everybody the sub allocation from under 5000, 50 to 200. There is greater flexibility that we could use.
▶ 0:45:52Mr. Mcmurray: The increased funding and highway safety improvement programs are absolutely viable as we take on 40,000 fatalities on our roadways, not acceptable. I added the bridge formula program that was added. It again gives direct funding that could be used especially for local governments. Bridges are everywhere. In georgia there is more local bridges than there are state bridges. We invest in every bridge.
▶ 0:46:23Mr. Mcmurray: All bridges are viable for safe and secure travel. Those core formula programs have been customary and necessary not only for utilization but for the planning process. We each do a state transportation improvement program and long-range transportation out to 20 years counting on the viable funding reliability from year-over-year. It takes too long to deliver these projects.
▶ 0:46:55Mr. Mcmurray: We need to deliver this funding certainty in the core programs to know that we could deliver in the planning process, design, construction process to get the infrastructure delivered. Some of those challenges in georgia have been some of the new programs. To Mr. caroll's testimony, things are happening.
▶ 0:47:21Mr. Mcmurray: I say thank you in that iija because we never had the ability to use federal dollars to work on things such as slides, funding, using federal dollars. It is getting hard to deploy. One of the challenges is transportation alternatives program to try to deliver federal projects locally through a competitive process to a very rural area.
▶ 0:47:54Mr. Mcmurray: It is hard to ask to deliver a federal aid project due to the complex need of funding, often in georgia we have had cities and communities say no thank you after they were awarded a grant. Excuse me, through the competitive grant program the state dot's have administered because they realize how much more cost it takes. Simply easier for them to deliver the project themselves with no federal dollars.
▶ 0:48:25Mr. Mcmurray: Those couple of programs, obviously nevi was a new program. States have been moving forward with those programs. It has taken a while to stand up those programs. Every state has different procurement rules and methodology.
▶ 0:48:46Mr. Mcmurray: In georgia we believe strongly that we shouldn't put state dollars when using a public-private partnership to use the federal dollars and the private sector dollars. States have struggled.
▶ 0:49:00Chair Capito: How many have you built under the program?
▶ 0:49:03Mr. Mcmurray: We have five under contract.
▶ 0:49:06Chair Capito: You have not built any.
▶ 0:49:09Mr. Mcmurray: The program was very much surface transportation program to a technology solution. It is very different. No state dot had built gas stations. It is taking a long time to navigate. We have a public-private partnership with laws that allow us to advance.
▶ 0:49:39Mr. Mcmurray: Other states, we couldn't even deliver because they didn't have a method to deliver on.
▶ 0:49:43Chair Capito: That's a real problem. Mr. johnson, greatest benefit and greatest challenge?
▶ 0:49:50Mr. Johnson: I think the greatest benefit is the amount of money coming out for funding to the wild. It was delayed a little bit from authorization to appropriation. Since then, we have seen a lot of money coming into the states that we work in. We have a good backlog and hiring more people. All of that is good. Something else that has been very good is the exemptions for the construction materials.
▶ 0:50:21Mr. Johnson: It is hard to imagine but 20%-30% of aggregate oil and asphalt buyers comes in from outside the U.S.. Not that we want it to. We have roughly 60 asphalt plants. Most of them in the west. 10-15 in mississippi and tennessee. A lot of those asphalt plants you find are from canada.
▶ 0:50:49Mr. Johnson: If we were to shut that off or put tariffs on it, it would cause inflation or problems with getting jobs done on time. Some of the things I think the next bill should look at and did not is using recycled materials. The technology is there to use up to 40%. We reclaimed asphalt placement -- pavement in the U.S.
▶ 0:51:17Mr. Johnson: That has a benefit of lowering cost, increasing safety on the roads. Less air emissions, you are using material that is U.S. material.
▶ 0:51:31Chair Capito: I will stop you there because I want to give Mr. carroll a chance to answer quickly.
▶ 0:51:40Mr. Carroll: There's a lot of agreement. I would focus on the safety investments as one of the biggest pluses for us. I will look at discretionary programs and direct funding for cities and local governments. We hear directly when there is issues and in a position to react more in alignment with what our constituents are talking about. I feel like there is certainly a lot of work that we need to do.
▶ 0:52:12Mr. Carroll: Anything we could do to improve that, streamline that.
▶ 0:52:17Chair Capito: Senator whitehouse.
▶ 0:52:20Sen. Whitehouse: Thanks. The chairman made a very good thing by keeping our record open from our parting reform hearing for 30 days. We are still in that 30 day period. I would like each of you to contribute to that record what you see by way of reforms that could help move things forward without compromising the purposes of requirements.
▶ 0:52:49Sen. Whitehouse: In particular, in the grantmaking process, where there are -- what you would consider to be expressive or duplicative conditions attached to various grantmaking processes. I invite you to do that. Mr. carol, climate change causes very significant effects for coastal infrastructure. We see this all the time in rhode island.
▶ 0:53:20Sen. Whitehouse: We see the sea level rise, the road floods constantly. We are also seeing herring flooding. It is changing the way communities have to respond in their infrastructure planning. One of the dangers where engineers, planners, designers, construction firms are forbidden to discuss and predict climate effects.
▶ 0:53:46Mr. Carroll: We need to plan so we could build things effectively. Anything that feels like a restriction is going to be a danger not just to infrastructure but to the people who live and working communities themselves.
▶ 0:54:04Sen. Whitehouse: You mentioned corridors, what would you like to see in the new surface transportation bill to provide additional resources for addressing the safety concerns?
▶ 0:54:18Mr. Carroll: I think more is going to be the first thing I answer with. We talked a little bit about some reform that would help. If we are making improvements on pedestrian movements in particular it should be pretty straightforward to get environmental clearance. Sometimes it's not as straightforward as it should be. A lot of work could go into making a straight path, something more like a checklist.
▶ 0:54:48Mr. Carroll: It takes months to process.
▶ 0:54:54Sen. Whitehouse: Do you see data gaps in identifying this?
▶ 0:55:00Mr. Carroll: We have done a decent job. We have been focused on this for a while. I mean the city of philadelphia has. They have been focused on it for a while as well. There is a big differential. If you look at any metropolitan region, I'm sure rural communities have issues. Making the case for what they should get.
▶ 0:55:28Mr. Carroll: If there is some work that happened at the federal level or the state level to make that data more available.
▶ 0:55:43Sen. Whitehouse: I mentioned in my opening remarks we have protected grant funding that is not coming through at this point. I understand georgia has $240 million in grant funding. What is the status of that as far as you know today?
▶ 0:56:02Mr. Mcmurray: Out of the discretionary money that might be coming, how much is being utilized. How we get projects through the pipeline. As you understand --
▶ 0:56:20Sen. Whitehouse: Would you take that as a question for the record. I'm just interested in the status today of the georgia protect grant funding and whether it is cleared to go, whether you still be grant agreement signed, what is the status on the way towards being able to embark on those projects? If you could do that for the record I would appreciate it.
▶ 0:56:44Mr. Carroll: Will do.
▶ 0:56:47Sen. Whitehouse: What I believe I'm seeing in the wake of the court order that was instructed the trump administration to end frozen funds in certain areas and to come to compliance with the court's decision is what I called a fog bank technique where the official won't say no, we will not do that. We make ourselves a target for violation of the court order.
▶ 0:57:17Sen. Whitehouse: They retreat and they either have emails not answered, phones not answered. Vague responses, we are still looking into it, standby. You get assurances that it is fine but the money never comes. I think that is actually strategy at this point from the trump administration. I think we will have to press our way through that.
▶ 0:57:49Sen. Whitehouse: Slow-motion attempts of court orders is still contempt of court orders. I really think we need to get to the bottom of this as you and I both said, there is important bipartisan work to do in this committee. It just isn't going to work when we have an administration that won't faithfully execute the laws despite the oath that was formed to faithfully execute the laws.
▶ 0:58:15Chair Capito: Agreed. That is part of the oversight we are doing in this committee.
▶ 0:58:25Sen. Hawley: S
▶ 0:58:27Sen. Hawley: --
▶ 0:58:29Sen. Husted: We oversaw the department of transportation, had a lot of variety of transportation projects. What constantly fought over when they would talk with me about the federal review process and permitting process and environmental review, how long it would take to do this project that was of urgent nature. We sit here today trying to figure out how we all get better at this?
▶ 0:59:02Sen. Husted: I will start with you, Mr. mcmurray. How do we get better? How do we shorten that time. Period for review? We are literally the permitting process takes longer than the construction of these project, how do we get better?
▶ 0:59:22Mr. Mcmurray: One, states that have taken on delegation or assignment as it is called have seen marked improvements in their timed approval. Georgia has not done that. We tried to do some other things . We call it the office of environmentally quality where the state dot pays for federal resource agency positions, that corps of engineers, U.S.
▶ 0:59:48Mr. Mcmurray: Fish and wildlife view -- to name a few. So they could work as a team to work on our environmental reviews. We have seen great gains there. Up to 80% time improvement on some of those permitting reviews. Not on all, but on some. I will call it an allotment.
▶ 1:00:20Mr. Mcmurray: Most other federal resource agencies outside of U.S. doc, their primary mission is not to advance infrastructure. That is what we have been able to do in georgia, pool all of these agencies including state resources under one roof and work as a team. Why wouldn't everybody work together to try to advance transportation infrastructure?
▶ 1:00:52Mr. Mcmurray: We had to work with each federal agency to get consensus that they would release a person not to work under their roof but work in a different location to move projects forward. That is one thing I think is perfectly allowable. It could happen today but it should be really standard across the nation that it should be in alignment with federal resource regulatory agencies working together.
▶ 1:01:19Sen. Husted: I will get to Mr. johnson, do you have a thought?
▶ 1:01:24Mr. Johnson: I understand there is seven or eight states that works out authority with the U.S. government on transportation projects, california being one. Texas being another. Understand that texas has reported that since they have done that, they have reduced the time to get through the process from 36 months to 16 months on average. Why is in every state doing this?
▶ 1:01:54Mr. Johnson: I'm not sure what the answer is but I think they should be encouraged. Just a thought, we have often talked in recent weeks in this committee about time is money. Time is also cost, inflation in flights -- infects the time and cost.
▶ 1:02:17Mr. Johnson: A lot of projects if you delay when there is a severe traffic issue, it leads to more accidents and takes a toll on human life. I'm getting to philadelphia, pennsylvania. I know the interstate 95 bridge collapse occurred. In literally 12 days you are able to fix it.
▶ 1:02:42Mr. Johnson: It's possible to do these things when we have relief and regulations. I'm curious if everyone has a thought on this. Traffic projects that are literally holding up glass, could we have an urgency waiver to really give states the ability to short-circuit some of these delays and go immediately into construction when there is a need to save lives? Do you have any thoughts?
▶ 1:03:12Mr. Carroll: I would support something like that. It has to be done carefully. We should definitely learn from states that have figured out how to do it. If we could all agree there is a process that works, we should certify that process and do it. Even what I mentioned before, certain types of projects we could be pretty comfortable with.
▶ 1:03:40Mr. Carroll: Small-scale, they have a big impact at the intersection of a road segment that may take place. They will not create a situation where there's a cascade of environmental impact. I certainly support something like that.
▶ 1:03:53Sen. Husted: Thank you.
▶ 1:04:00Sen. Merkley: Thank you for bringing your expertise to the senate. I want to start with Mr. carroll, I have a long list of projects in oregon that have benefited from our infrastructure, our bill. A lot of them as I'm going through the list were signed but the money had not been allocated.
▶ 1:04:31Sen. Merkley: There's just a tremendous amount of concern that this current administration's funding freeze will slow this thing down. Every time we say slow, the costs go up. That is so frustrating because of the costs going up, now you will have an additional gap and fill that in. Really starting a project where the entire vision is now on shaky ground given uncertainty.
▶ 1:05:01Sen. Merkley: Has, from your point of view, this funding pause created uncertainty or delays that will potentially increase the cost of projects?
▶ 1:05:10Mr. Carroll: I'm very worried about that. I've taken note of senator whitehouse's comments. We have a lot of experience trying to get our calls answered . Everyone I think is doing the best that they can to make sure that we understand what is going on. We just spoke about the risk of uncertainty coming from the normal process.
▶ 1:05:40Mr. Carroll: It doesn't make a lot of sense to risk and uncertainty. We are never even clear what the rules are.
▶ 1:05:51Sen. Merkley: Why do you think it's in the nation's interest to increase the cost?
▶ 1:05:53Mr. Carroll: I can't speak for that. I would like for these decisions to be based on some case that we could all sort of process and understand.
▶ 1:06:03Sen. Merkley: A different piece of this puzzle is the committee process. Often environmental projects have to be processed. We are seeing a huge slashing of the staff at the environmental protection agency which will have a significant impact on the ability to process those permits. At the department of transportation there's a lot of planning personnel who have been retired or laid off.
▶ 1:06:34Sen. Merkley: Aren't these personnel cuts going to also increase delays from our transportation infrastructure?
▶ 1:06:38Mr. Carroll: I'm worried that they will.
▶ 1:06:43Sen. Merkley: We have two factors. Delays in grants, delays and contracts. Delays in the environmental permitting, the transportation team. All of this amounts to a tremendous mess. What possible way does this make america better?
▶ 1:07:02Mr. Carroll: I'm not familiar with what the case is for these decisions.
▶ 1:07:07Sen. Merkley: I can't find anybody in oregon who feels like there is a single thing that is better about this. We have a bridge on the interstate that has been a drawbridge. We have the last remaining bridge on the major north-south core door that goes for our transportation up and down the west coast.
▶ 1:07:34Sen. Merkley: Finally we will get it fixed, or are we? We have lots of concerns about critical infrastructure for the big birth quick that will come someday and we have 100-year-old other bridges. Really making strides on a lot of these things.
▶ 1:08:02Sen. Merkley: I'm really shocked that this was an area of bipartisan cooperation. Somehow we don't have bipartisan cooperation to say to the administration you are making things a lot worse.
▶ 1:08:19Mr. Carroll: I would just say americans want results. They want results. The more we emphasize results, the better we will be.
▶ 1:08:30Sen. Merkley: I think this is something we will continue to have a lot of concern about and I appreciate you holding this hearing because americans want us to get the job done. There was a lot of challenge certainly in big influx of spending for infrastructure, the biggest infrastructure since building the highway system.
▶ 1:09:01Sen. Merkley: If we now screw this up when we are halfway into it, it is really damaging to the united states in a massive way. It just irritates me to hear elon musk and president trump talking about efficiency while they are doing everything they could think of to drive up costs.
▶ 1:09:31Sen. Merkley: Thank you madam chairman.
▶ 1:09:33Sen. Ricketts: Good morning. Thank you for holding this hearing. Appreciate it. This hearing is timely as U.S. transportation secretary sean duffy settles into his new role, he was recently confirmed by congress as congress prepares to reauthorize the highway administration coming up this year.
▶ 1:10:03Sen. Ricketts: Transportation infrastructure, you have all senate is incredibly important in my home state of nebraska just like where all you come from. It is important for our industrial opportunity. For really our quality of life. It's something we want to make sure we are doing the best job possible. We are looking to reauthorize highway authorization. States need to be playing a more active role in the program.
▶ 1:10:36Sen. Ricketts: I believe we ought to allow states -- we mentioned this and people locally will have a better connection with what is needed locally. That's why think one of the things we need to be doing is going through the department of transportation doing something where we are empowering states through funding to let them make the decisions. Not cherry pick different green project that are discretionary grants. I will give you an example with the one that we are talking about a little bit earlier.
▶ 1:11:09Sen. Ricketts: Electric vehicles. There have been grants for electric vehicle charging stations. In nebraska, electric vehicles don't work too well. On the east coast and in urban areas they were good. In big, rural states, last week the temperature was in the teens and single digits, you lose about 40% of your charge. I have communities like bluefield, they are 45 minutes from the nearest charging station.
▶ 1:11:38Sen. Ricketts: We cannot allow american innovation and consumers -- in the meantime Mr. johnson mentioned this, electric vehicles are heavier so they decrease our roads quicker and don't play -- pay the gas tax. That just doesn't make any sense.
▶ 1:12:02Sen. Ricketts: As commissioner for the 10th largest transportation system I would like to hear your thoughts on what the department could do with funding efficiencies. We try to stretch every dollar. I'm sure you try to do the same thing. When you have unpredictable funding schemes and creates havoc with that.
▶ 1:12:29Sen. Ricketts: Could you talk about the flexibilities that would be important to the states on august redistribution? Those funds come late, it makes it difficult to plan, what could you do better with regard to that. I would like to hear what you think about how could you address this?
▶ 1:12:49Mr. Mcmurray: As far as flexibility we would encourage more flexibility. There are some programs that you could flex up to half for one program. That's only in what is called the any area areas.
▶ 1:13:10Mr. Mcmurray: The other flexibility we would suggest is looking at the protect program, put those under one umbrella to give states more flexibility where nevi may not work as well for your state but it may work for another state. To give states that decision-making to have portability and flexibility across the programs. The other important part is actually in the projects.
▶ 1:13:38Mr. Mcmurray: If there is an impediment from delivering a federal program bucket, you don't want to forfeit that money. It would be better if you could flex it and deliver another project. The legislative intent of programs over the life of them. We could look at the top line of funding by federal program over the life of a transportation bill and make sure states are spending the money in those categories. U.S.
▶ 1:14:05Mr. Mcmurray: Portability year-over-year will deliver. As it relates to august redistribution, a very complicated process. We thank you for the bill that started to address this large number that has risen because of not using the allocated funding.
▶ 1:14:27Mr. Mcmurray: It is a very hard thing for states to do to pull down this high level august redistribution you have to have enough carryover balance to pull it down. We appreciate section 120 and the transportation hub in fy 25 appreciations -- appropriations that could give those allocated programs four years to obligate the money instead of having a huge rollover balance that makes for
▶ 1:14:57Mr. Mcmurray: Poor planning. We have to deploy those dollars within five days meeting that you have to have projects ready to go very quickly to use those dollars.
▶ 1:15:06Sen. Ricketts: You mentioned dnieper and states doing it, nebraska has started this process. The things that we said is that raising -- waving sovereign immunity is a very heavy left. Just quickly in your amendment, what amendments are federal -- and federal laws are needed to maintain high environmental standards, specifically around taking on that requirement?
▶ 1:15:36Mr. Mcmurry: I am not sure I understand the question.
▶ 1:15:39Sen. Ricketts: If a state wants to take over that, one of the things that we encountered is you have to waive sovereign immunity which is a roadblock for us in nebraska. Are there other things that are roadblocks or things that we can do and federal law that will help states he able to take over those responsibilities?
▶ 1:16:01Mr. Mcmurry: That is outside my jurisdiction. I just know that it works in california and texas. And I would hope that other states would do the same thing. Talking about getting the formula funding out, I agree that more flexibility and moving it from bucket to bucket is key. But something else at the federal government should look at is interstate highway system is very important for moving freight. And freight gets bottled up in areas.
▶ 1:16:32Mr. Mcmurry: There are areas where we need to increase capacity and not just maintain roads. 30 years ago 50% of the formulary funding those to new capacity and now only 20% does. The american trucking association says that truck freight will increase 30% in the next 30 years. We need more capacity on the U.S. highways and federal highways to move freight by truck by the pope -- from the ports, and it out -- in and out.
▶ 1:17:02Sen. Ricketts: Thank you for indulging me.
▶ 1:17:05Chair Capito: Senator padilla.
▶ 1:17:07Sen. Padilla: I appreciate you convening this hearing today. Now, after our colleagues that the bipartisan infrastructure law has delivered millions of dollars in truly transformed it projects in california alone. It has helped us rebuild roads, expand public transit and make the transportation system saved her -- safer while creating 180,000 good paying jobs.
▶ 1:17:36Sen. Padilla: That is again in just california alone. We are not done. We fully expect that additional funding and more jobs are on the way as the investments continue to come, and less, unless elon musk and his doge cohorts block our progress as they slash support staff, engineers and critical safety personnel.
▶ 1:18:04Sen. Padilla: There is a real concern and it already impacts from folks that I'm hearing from in my state. I will do one example. I will not name the city because they are fear feel -- a -- they are fearful of retribution. This bay area said he was on the verge of finalizing a long-sought grant agreement for a critical infrastructure project. They expect -- they had spent years trying to secure it.
▶ 1:18:29Sen. Padilla: A couple's of fridays ago they were working closely with their contact in the department of transportation. The following monday, that dot staff member was gone. And the department has been unresponsive since. And they are wondering back home what is next? Are we ever going to see this money and when? The more we wait, we know that time is money.
▶ 1:18:54Sen. Padilla: Another program I am proud of, the clean school bus program is in jeopardy as the chairwoman knows, this initiative not only benefits districts across the country that fuels domestic manufacturing including a major facility in west virginia. So they chaos has had consequences for school districts and manufacturers alike.
▶ 1:19:19Sen. Padilla: Now, on top of the challenges that it has gone through, last month the department of transportation published in order that prioritizes funding for communities with high marriage and birth weights -- birthrates and I know senator whitehouse on that earlier and demands cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. That is new. That is new for the dot.
▶ 1:19:46Sen. Padilla: It also calls on the dot staff to new cash to unilaterally amend existing grant agreements that have already been negotiated and signed, and entered into, and what would be considered legally binding. That has been our practice when it comes to infrastructure funding. My first question is this for Mr.
▶ 1:20:06Sen. Padilla: Carol, what infrastructure projects or programs would be affected if your city and state were to suddenly lose federal transportation funds that have been committed, even if it is just temporary, what is the impact?
▶ 1:20:20Mr. Carroll: As far as I can tell it is the whole spectrum. We focused about improvements to safetynd repair. We are an old city and we have a lot of old infrastructure and we have talked about that so far. We cannot wait in these things are not going to fix themselves and they need to be fixed and plan for so that the repairs take place and a lot of work has gone into getting where we are right now. We need to maintain progress.
▶ 1:20:50Mr. Carroll: What is worse is that when we have to bring in the services of folks who look at these agreements and give the signoff from our own law department from the commonwealth of pennsylvania's attorneys and then attorneys at the federal level, that could take years. And sometimes it does take many months to get anything that even looks like a hint of where we are going.
▶ 1:21:21Mr. Carroll: And so, when you get to the finish line and you have communicated with constituents and contractors and with people who are seeking employment that there is something coming and just wait we are gonna get going and we will see real on the ground things that you can touch and feel, and then it stops with no explanation for it is nerve-racking.
▶ 1:21:46Sen. Padilla: It sounds like it has been disruptive and forget frustrating, it is becoming costly for taxpayers? Another program I wanted to touch on, it created the charging and fueling infrastructure grant program, which has awarded $1.8 billion to recipients in nearly every state to support the increasingly popular zero emission vehicles.
▶ 1:22:12Sen. Padilla: This was appropriated by congress and mandated in statute. And yet the trump administration has blatantly ignored the law, freezing funding for the program, again leaving grant awardees in the dark. The city of philadelphia has been awarded $20 million for these particular grants, this category. Can we talk about the importance of getting this revitalized and what the funding would mean for your city?
▶ 1:22:42Mr. Carroll: Again, we have started training electricians. We badly need electricians. And this is something is the wind at the back of bringing new people into the industry. We expect that we would have thousands of jobs across the region involved in this work and installing the infrastructure and maintaining the infrastructure and promoting small businesses in terms of convenience stores which will be great locations.
▶ 1:23:11Mr. Carroll: It supports developing commercial core doors and is aligned with the policy and they had a good reception to their plan. All of that work is something that we want to see keeping moving.
▶ 1:23:20Sen. Padilla: Thank you very much.
▶ 1:23:22Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator blunt rochester.
▶ 1:23:28Sen. Braun: Rochester thank you -- Sen. blunt rochester: I am proud to have worked on the bipartisan infrastructure law, something that we have talked about in our country for a very long time.
▶ 1:23:45Sen. Braun: As you have heard from others, I am deeply concerned about the trump administration's freezing of federal funding and mass firings and the real-life impact that it will have on these critical projects on these communities, states and across the country. In delaware I did a bridge tour. We were streaming live and I took folks from deldot, and the engineers took me to different bridges.
▶ 1:24:13Sen. Braun: One was 80 years old and really just to show people what the real-life impact is on their everyday life. For me, we cannot afford to go backwards. Programs like rebuilding american infrastructure with sustainability and equitably program or the reconnecting communities program, which I helped co-author will help communities be safer, have more accessibility and ensure that we have a strong economy.
▶ 1:24:43Sen. Braun: My first question is for you, Mr. mcmurry. In january my state was awarded $13 million that will go towards modernizing a 58-year-old bridge on state route nine. It will make it safer. And then we were also awarded $12 million to help save lives to make our roads and streets more safe for our cyclists and pedestrians. Following up on senator merkley's question.
▶ 1:25:14Sen. Braun: With your experience as commissioner for the georgia department of transportation, water the effects of this uncertainty that we are seeing with funding freezes and higher firings of federal employees as we are trying to accomplish these projects?
▶ 1:25:28Mr. Mcmurry: Thank you. You have a great dot by the way. Listen, we totally support that we need to move forward with everything. If there is a grant agreement in place, we believe that is a contract and the same in georgia. If we have a grant agreement in place we are counting on moving forward. I hate to use this analogy but we can still fly the airplane while still building it or tweaking it. Let us keep things moving.
▶ 1:25:58Mr. Mcmurry: It is just that important to the nation economy, not to pause. And I use this example. We as dot's have been playing by the rules. The rules might be changing but let us keep playing the game for another bad analogy. I have a bridge that we received a grant from and a rural grant to grade separate over a railroad. The train blocks the town.
▶ 1:26:25Mr. Mcmurry: So we are over a year from the grant award and we still do not have a grant executed. While we are designing and buying the property. That is important because we are counting on this to get this community so they are not cut off when the train blocks the town.
▶ 1:26:39Sen. Blunt Rochester: One of the bridges I was on connects to the dover airport space and these are vital. Can you talk about the impact on employment and these freezes and the funding freezes. How does that affect employment?
▶ 1:26:54Mr. Mcmurry: I personally cannot speak on what that may or may not mean. I have not seen that play out just yet. So, it is a little early for us to tell what that impact might be?
▶ 1:27:06Sen. Blunt Rochester: I can tell you as a former secretary of labor you stop putting shovels on the ground which means that people are not working and that means that connections to the economy. I am going to ship to you. The reconnecting communities grant focusing on righting harm bypass transportation decisions and eliminating barriers to mobility and economic development. Some of these policies started in the 1950's.
▶ 1:27:34Sen. Blunt Rochester: I rode with representative dwight evans on amtrak from delaware to philadelphia to meet with residents and community members who have been trying to tackle this. Can you talk about from your experience some of the benefits from these projects on communities and what impacts the freezes would have in real-life terms?
▶ 1:27:56Mr. Carroll: In my testimony I talked about the time -- the chinatown stitch project. And I think it is going to repair a community that was literally split in half by the expressway. From a regional transportation perspective, that expressway is essential to making the city work and making the nine counties both in new jersey and pennsylvania accessible to each other.
▶ 1:28:26Mr. Carroll: It was definitely that -- it was definitely something that needed to happen at the way it did created harm. We have a chance not just effects that because we want to be good but we can generate a lot of energy and economic activity. We see people getting interested in investing in that community. This is a chance to get the benefit to make america and our community strong. To get people to work and make things that stand up to the test of time.
▶ 1:28:56Sen. Blunt Rochester: I yield back.
▶ 1:28:58Chair Capito: Senator kelly.
▶ 1:29:01Sen. Kelly: I want to thank you, all of you for being here today for this very important hearing and I am glad that we got to and are getting to discuss the -- how to best implement the bipartisan infrastructure law. Before that I want to ask a rather simple question, just to make me feel better, so Mr. carroll, did russia invade ukraine?
▶ 1:29:28Mr. Carroll: Yes.
▶ 1:29:29Sen. Kelly: Thank you, I appreciate that. I did not get that answer yesterday on a hearing in another committee and I want to make sure that this is not contagious. So, one of the flag ship programs that we created in the law was the bridge improvement program.
▶ 1:29:50Sen. Kelly: And it did some really rather simple, noncontroversial things, which is funding the repairs to failing bridges. And Mr. mcmurry I will ask you the same question. That program was created following all of the best practices that are witnesses mentioned in your testimony. The majority of the funding is allocated to the states through a formula program to focus on pressing needs.
▶ 1:30:22Sen. Kelly: And then for the projects that fall through the cracks, there is a discretionary grant program that is available. And the program was successful. In december, the department of transportation announced that more than 11,400 bridges are being repaired thanks to the program. And when bridges are not repaired, they can fail, and people can die.
▶ 1:30:50Sen. Kelly: One of these projects is in northern arizona on interstate 40. And it repairs four bridges that were built back in 1963 that do not meet current safety standards. They provide access to the capital of the navajo nation. They form the backbone of the trade core door that -- corridor that leads to the ports of los angeles and long beach.
▶ 1:31:19Sen. Kelly: And yet for the last 36 days, this project has been halted due to the trump administration's funding freeze. This is exactly the type of project which those of us who negotiated the bipartisan infrastructure law had in mind. And yet, by needlessly politicizing basic investments in infrastructure, communities in arizona are facing needless uncertainty. So, Mr.
▶ 1:31:48Sen. Kelly: Carroll, I imagine your department has received a number of competitive grants. Can you speak to how halting the disbursement of awarded funds disrupts a local recipient's ability to plan and execute projects.
▶ 1:32:04Mr. Carroll: I think it is clear that we need to you know, engage with the contracting community as quickly as we can to make sure we get these projects under construction and to meet the construction deadlines, which are statutory.
▶ 1:32:20Sen. Kelly: How can you meet the deadlines without the funding?
▶ 1:32:23Mr. Carroll: This is the funding. -- this is the problem. We need to get clarity so we can plan. Many projects are funded through federal funds, but we want to prioritize those with deadlines so that might mean that the engineers and contractors are going need -- are going to need to rearrange what they are doing.
▶ 1:32:45Mr. Carroll: Even to get phone calls answered even if it is to wait and no how you have to wait and what you have to do in order to get the work going, that is some certainty. We will take that but we are not getting that kind of information so it is nerve-racking.
▶ 1:33:00Sen. Kelly: Can you weigh in as well, how does this affect long-term planning and do you become hesitant to apply for future discretionary grants because of the actions of the administration?
▶ 1:33:14Mr. Mcmurry: I will go back to the grant agreements, and thank you for this leadership from this committee about the bridge investment program for both large and small because these kind of programs are very necessary for large bridges often crossing state lines to have the ability for states to compete to hold down dollars where it would be such a budget impact from one state to the other to try to have a bistate crossing.
▶ 1:33:45Mr. Mcmurry: Georgia supports any grant agreement that has been executed and we feel like it needs to move forward now. The bridge investment program is a good example of foundational investment.
▶ 1:33:55Sen. Kelly: Do you have any of these projects that you know of that have been cut off?
▶ 1:33:59Mr. Mcmurry: South carolina and georgia jointly have a bridge investment grant for planning and for crossing state lines on interstate I-95. We are in the planning stages for that so we have not gotten into the construction phase.
▶ 1:34:13Chair Capito: Thank you madam chair. Thank you. Senator markey are you ready?
▶ 1:34:22Sen. Markey: Keep going. >> when has he not been ready to go.
▶ 1:34:29Sen. Markey: Thank you. So, the bipartisan infrastructure law unlocked the historic funding to rebuild america's infrastructure. In massachusetts we are using it to replace the aging cape cod bridges and we are expanding passenger rail and modernizing our transit systems.
▶ 1:34:51Sen. Markey: By providing five years of funds, the bipartisan infrastructure law gave states and localities a feeling of certainty that the federal resources needed to deliver critical infrastructure investments would come through. Unfortunately, the trump administration smashed that surety. And it sold out our cities and towns.
▶ 1:35:14Sen. Markey: When the trump department of transportation announced that it was freezing unobligated funds with the intent to cut off funds for projects related to climate or working on behalf of disadvantaged communities, its unleashed -- it unleashed uncertainties upon the communities. Communities in my state saying that grant applications for typically dependable formula funds have slowed to a crawl.
▶ 1:35:41Sen. Markey: They tell me they cannot find contractors for basic work like repairing a transit facility's roof because the contractors fear that they will not be paid. That makes a lot of sense. Uncertainty. They tell me they are worried about receiving funds for critical road safety projects because the project will help disadvantaged communities that trump wants to leave behind. So, Mr.
▶ 1:36:06Sen. Markey: Carroll, we know that uncertainty can raise costs and cause delays. Do me -- do you believe that the decision to increase cost and delay is immediately debt -- jeopardizing projects that make transportation system safer and more effective for communities all across massachusetts in the country?
▶ 1:36:28Mr. Carroll: I have a lot of concern that those risks are out there and it will raise costs.
▶ 1:36:33Sen. Markey: I thank you for that and I agree. Unfortunately where congress and the biden administration provided funding, the trump administration can offer only uncertainty. Under the trump administration, the department of transportation has slowed and even stopped the flow of funds to support sidley -- supposedly root out the project that addresses the
▶ 1:37:03Sen. Markey: Climate crisis or communities left behind by federal investments. Let us unpack what a climate project or equity project actually looks like. Please answer yes or no? O. What a project to repair a bridge providing better connectivity between communities provide equity benefits?
▶ 1:37:23Mr. Carroll: I believe it would.
▶ 1:37:25Sen. Markey: Could a project to improve signaling for subways enhancing their on-time performance and making the transit system more reliable for their residents simultaneously provide climate benefits?
▶ 1:37:40Mr. Carroll: I believe it would.
▶ 1:37:41Sen. Markey: Could a project that makes a brit -- a busy roadway safer for pedestrians provide equity benefits?
▶ 1:37:49Mr. Carroll: Yes.
▶ 1:37:50Sen. Markey: Thank you, because it is clear to me that these projects are not only reasonable, but are also much needed in red and blue states alike. D.o.t.'s decision to undermine these projects is not only unnecessary and unlawful, but it is also going to be very unpopular.
▶ 1:38:13Sen. Markey: Especially if they tie it to dei as the rationale for stopping or slowing vital transportation projects that benefit the entire community. And the bipartisan infrastructure law provided historic funding for passenger rail. In massachusetts we are receiving critical funds to finally fulfill our dream of regular passenger rail between western and eastern parts of the state. Mr.
▶ 1:38:42Sen. Markey: Mcmurry, georgia has received federal grants to expand passenger rail in your state. Do you agree that we must continue to provide robust funding to expand passenger rail?
▶ 1:38:58Mr. Mcmurry: Thank you. And yes, we are under reauthorization to continue the same levels as what was previously authorized.
▶ 1:39:07Sen. Markey: Thank you. And that is why I introduced the all aboard act, which would revolutionize america's rail system and double down on the bipartisan infrastructure law's historic funding for passenger rail and ensure that the states, which has undertaken ambitious rail projects like georgia and massachusetts have the funds that they need in order to deliver these projects right on time.
▶ 1:39:34Sen. Markey: I look forward to working with all of my colleagues to ensure that projects in red and blue states, not set -- north, south, east and west get the funding that they were promised.
▶ 1:39:45Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator alsobrooks.
▶ 1:39:51Sen. Alsobrooks: We have a long tradition of negotiating and passing bipartisan infrastructure legislation which was why was interested in joining this committee. I am looking forward to working with all of my colleagues and as ranking member as the transportation subcommittee to honor this a partisan tradition and pass legislation that works for each of our states.
▶ 1:40:18Sen. Alsobrooks: Unfortunately, as my colleagues has mentioned, this administration is making this difficult. It is hard to have a conversation about developing the next bipartisan infrastructure law when we discover that the current law is refusing to implement the current existing law. Due to this administration's funding pause, maryland's department of transportation has $330 million in funding that is on hold.
▶ 1:40:47Sen. Alsobrooks: These are grants that have already been awarded and dollars that congress has appropriated. With all of that in mind I have a few questions and I want to thank you for being here this morning. The department of transportation changed the statewide transportation improvement program in a project amendment approval process.
▶ 1:41:08Sen. Alsobrooks: The department is requiring projects that were previously approved by the federal highway administration division offices in each state to instead be approved by the general counsel and the secretary's office. We have heard a lot about this need to cut red tape and streamline processes to expedite project delivery and lower costs. With that I will ask Mr.
▶ 1:41:29Sen. Alsobrooks: Mcmurry and carroll, do you believe that sending these approvals to the office of secretary will help deliver projects faster and lower costs?
▶ 1:41:42Mr. Mcmurry: We certainly from a georgia point of view one to see modifications and amendments to move forward very quickly and so, I think that is important again that we will -- that this is process. That this is long-standing that we worked through to properly plan working with philadelphia, the city of atlanta and all of the 15 others.
▶ 1:42:09Mr. Mcmurry: This is a process for these amendments so we think that it should move forward as it has traditionally has.
▶ 1:42:18Sen. Alsobrook: So if this new process creates? So, if this new process creates a bottleneck and slows projects down, how will these delays affect project outcomes?
▶ 1:42:35Mr. Mcmurry: We have this moving forward now and we will see if there is a true slowdown in delivery of that approval process. If it is slowed, there could be projects that are not able to advance because the federal highway does not have the approval that we can push the button in the system to get the contract authorization necessary for us to vent a job.
▶ 1:43:00Mr. Mcmurry: In georgia, I have to have the contract fully encumbered with all the money -- with all the money when I bid a project. I will not have that until it is in place and authorized.
▶ 1:43:11Chair Capito: In your experience cap --
▶ 1:43:13Sen. Alsobrook: In your experience you acknowledge that this process the delays. You prefer the traditional process?
▶ 1:43:21Mr. Mcmurry: We are going to see how this goes. So, yes it could, and we are optimistic that it will not.
▶ 1:43:29Sen. Alsobrook: The reality is that this administration is not concerned about efficiencies. The department of transportation is adding an unnecessary layer of review at the same time it is slashing the federal workforce and the civil servants that could help projects on the ground faster and could get press -- projects on the ground faster.
▶ 1:43:52Sen. Alsobrook: In your experience, is it normal for the federal highway administration to abruptly halt a bridge project in the middle of construction because there was a change in administration?
▶ 1:44:02Mr. Mcmurry: It has not been my experience.
▶ 1:44:04Sen. Alsobrook: What about a resurfacing project?
▶ 1:44:07Mr. Mcmurry: The same.
▶ 1:44:08Sen. Alsobrook: For any project funded through the stamp -- the standard formula?
▶ 1:44:13Mr. Mcmurry: That is not my experience.
▶ 1:44:16Sen. Alsobrook: Between planning and construction we know that these are transportation multi year projects and if we subject state transportation projects to political whims any time there is a change in administration, you believe that the projects will be completed on china -- on time?
▶ 1:44:33Mr. Mcmurry: I believe that will cause a challenge.
▶ 1:44:36Sen. Alsobrook: I know we are running out of time about funding uncertainty. Administration had states locked out of payment portals with an -- without any indication of what a -- of what they might receive it. What does funding uncertainty mean?
▶ 1:44:52Mr. Mcmurry: We count on it on a weekly basis to move our funds forward so that we can pay the contractors and vendors for the work they do.
▶ 1:45:01Sen. Alsobrook: Thank you.
▶ 1:45:01Chair Capito: Thank you. Well, we are waiting to see if senator sullivan, give him a couple of minutes. While we are waiting, I am going to make a quick comment about the program because a senator from california brought up at one point $8 billion had been released for that program. I want to point out that $1.8 billion has resulted in 58 chargers being built in 3.5 years and 15 -- in 15 states.
▶ 1:45:35Chair Capito: And Mr. mcmurry says that he has five on the drawing board. Do you have any input on this?
▶ 1:45:42Mr. Carroll: So penndot has been working on the charging and fuel infrastructure program. We have not constructed any but we are planning to build about 200.
▶ 1:45:54Chair Capito: So, efficiencies and moving things quicker, I am not sure that program is a good example of the best way the federal government. Personally I thought it should have been left the private sector like gas stations. But obviously I lost on that one. A quick question for you Mr.
▶ 1:46:15Chair Capito: Johnson, we have had a lot of snow and ice and I -- all three of you really have to deal with the unpredictability when the weather gets cold like this and it really wreaks havoc on paving and highways. And if there is nothing that get somebody steamed up more than anything it is popping a tire in a pothole. And it happens frequently in the winter for us in west virginia. Are you finding this year is anymore exceptional? I will go to you because you had a lot of cold weather.
▶ 1:46:45Mr. Carroll: It has been on the high end. What is sometimes worse is the freeze and in the fall, the back and forth. Because it was colder for longer periods it did not get as high as it -- as I have seen it.
▶ 1:46:59Chair Capito: Does the municipality handle that? What about you? You have been even colder down in georgia.
▶ 1:47:07Mr. Mcmurry: We had a big event that had snow from metro atlanta all the way to the coast and down to floater -- florida a few weeks ago and that was a big event for us. And you are right, nobody wants to hit a pothole resulting from cold weather. We do our best to get back out there and repair roadways as soon as the brother -- as the weather clears.
▶ 1:47:30Mr. Johnson: We do have a significant count of work in the state of california and washington and the rains that we have had, torrential, have caused a lot of short-term and now long-term problems of washing out roads that will have to be rebuilt. So, it is an issue and it varies the test geographically from state to state.
▶ 1:47:52Chair Capito: No matter how much you plan for there is always the unpredictability. We did not ask about buy america waivers. Do you have a comment on how often they use those and are they working and how can they alleviate that?
▶ 1:48:07Mr. Mcmurry: Let me just talk about that. Georgia totally supports american manufacturing. So, foundational he we are all -- foundational he we are all in agreement. The issue that has happened through buy america and build america is trying through the construction materials, each state is having to certify the material that is buy america compliant. 50 states are having to do 50 different ways.
▶ 1:48:38Mr. Mcmurry: That is where we stepped in and said working with federal highway, let us make a repository of materials where if they are buy america and bought in georgia it is the same for west virginia. We have taken that lead. This is my comment is that that might have been a better world flat -- a better federal highway initiative to say synthesize it one time instead of 50 efforts.
▶ 1:49:02Mr. Mcmurry: We have taken the lead in that and we have hoped that going forward with reauthorization that could be a national database of compliant components. As it relates to the waiver that was suspended under the previous administration, I am really worried about that because in my written testimony you will see that traditional utilities that are part of the projects that we all get involved in for water or sewer or telecom, all of those
▶ 1:49:33Mr. Mcmurry: Components are usually bought by municipal associations in bulk. Not just to do a federal aid project that might be a 1000 feet or half a mile. They are buying miles of power lines and pipe and fittings. Use third -- you heard the testimony of the pumps. Those components are really concerning if we cannot have waivers that while we work our way to american-made manufacturing.
▶ 1:49:59Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator whitehouse, are you good.
▶ 1:50:03Sen. Whitehouse: As long as we are waiting I would just comment a bit on the ev program. There is a problem here of the chicken and the egg, what comes first. Are people going to buy good and effective american-made electric vehicles if there is not a charging infrastructure for them.
▶ 1:50:31Sen. Whitehouse: And our people going to build the charging infrastructure if the electric vehicles are not being bought. So, to step into that freeze, and drive infrastructure, which is what the charging stations are the same way you would build roads and other things that the government does, it makes perfect sense at breaking that chicken and egg logjam of a new technology that is trying to emerge.
▶ 1:51:02Sen. Whitehouse: To me at least. So, I am all for building out the infrastructure. I know in rhode island there was very significant planning of where they should go and talking to lots of people. So the fact that there are not many actually constructed as a sign that the planning process has been robust.
▶ 1:51:23Sen. Whitehouse: And now we are ready to go and we are eager to help build out that piece of infrastructure to support the many rhode islanders who have bought electric vehicles. What we are seeing out of the trump administration is something completely different. They are willing to actually spend an enormous amount of taxpayer money to rip out electric vehicle charging.
▶ 1:51:51Sen. Whitehouse: And, basically throw away electric vehicle chargers that have already been built. And it is really hard for me not to connect the dots between a fossil fuel industry that has put a minimum of $100 million into trump's election, that is what we know of.
▶ 1:52:14Sen. Whitehouse: There is a huge dark money operation where we do not know and there are numbers way beyond that and I suspect it is fossil fuel money. And this position that the trump administration has taken. They are trying to knock down offshore wind. Guess what, every electron produced displaces an electron produced by burning natural gas. A huge giveaway to the natural gas incumbents.
▶ 1:52:42Sen. Whitehouse: Every diminution in the electric vehicle market despite americans wanting these and the market growing rapidly not only domestically but globally where our country needs to compete, it effectively supports the gasoline manufacturers who have a lock on transportation through internal combustion engines.
▶ 1:53:03Sen. Whitehouse: Over and over again, you see fossil fuel money coming into the trump administration and fossil fuel policies coming out of the trump administration and, I think that is something that we have to be attentive to. Because, it is really going to come back to bite us.
▶ 1:53:25Sen. Whitehouse: We are on the edge right now of a significant dislocation of our property insurance markets because they cannot predict what is coming because of climate consequences. And we are seeing collapse of property insurance markets. Prices quadrupling and nonrenewal spiking in companies going bust and leaving states behind. Very rickety structures being built to prop up the market but it is all rickety right now.
▶ 1:53:53Sen. Whitehouse: And when you see rickety structures that is the precursor to a collapse. And this is a collapse likely to cascade through the property insurance market to mortgage markets. We just 10 days ago had the secretary of treasury say a decade from now we are going to start having regions of the united states where you cannot get a mortgage any longer. Well, if in a decade you are not going to be able to get mortgages in entire regions markets will react before that.
▶ 1:54:22Sen. Whitehouse: This is upon us right now, and the subservience of the trump administration to the fossil fuel industry will have dangerous ramifications. I want to take a moment to point that out while we have a moment.
▶ 1:54:36Chair Capito: I will thank you. And we are going to be bringing it down. I will say that there are 71,000 publicly available chargers in the united states. My point is that I voted for the bill, so I was obviously in support of building out infrastructure. My complaint is why is it taking so long.
▶ 1:54:59Chair Capito: It is taking so long because the biden administration added requirements and mandates to comply to this that then change the way that states and others could apply for this money and actually get it moving. We can debate that.
▶ 1:55:12Sen. Alsobrook: I do not know --
▶ 1:55:15Sen. Whitehouse: I am all for speeding it up & the occasion.
▶ 1:55:19Chair Capito: And I did not know donald trump was ripping out electric charging stations and I will have to check into that. In any event with no further questions I would like to ask my witnesses in all the colleagues to thank you for the participation. Senators who wish to commit submission -- submitted questions for the record will have until 5:00 p.m. On march 12 to do so. I believe the ranking member had a question for the record that he already mentioned.
▶ 1:55:47Chair Capito: The witnesses' response are due back no later than 5:00 p.m. On wednesday, march 26. Without this hearing is adjourned. Thank you very much. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit