▶ 0:16:28Chair Capito: Go ahead and take our seats, please. Good morning, everybody. We are in our new, temporary hearing room for several months. Maybe as much as a year, while they remodel our hearing room.
▶ 0:17:00Chair Capito: The hearing room needs some readjustments. We are trying to get it back to the way that it was historically. We will be meeting here. Actually, this is a little larger than ours, so it's quite nice. Thank everyone for being here. Senator whitehouse is unable to come today. He is interested in this topic, but he is unable to come. Senator schiff -- and will be in and out.
▶ 0:17:28Chair Capito: I don't want the witness is to take any offense that people are in and out. There is a lot going on today in various committees. Right there. I will give my opening statement and then senator boozman will take the gavel while I run over to commerce. I'm sure that you have other meetings as well. Everybody does. Welcome to the witnesses.
▶ 0:17:55Chair Capito: Welcome to today's hearing to examine the policies to strengthen our nation's water infrastructure. I want to thank the witnesses for joining us and the important work that you do every single day to deliver safe, reliable water and sanitation services in your various communities. This is our first hearing -- the ia iija as we prepare bipartisan legislation to reauthorize those programs.
▶ 0:18:25Chair Capito: In november of 2021, congress passed the I I ja including the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure act, bipartisan bill that was developed -- the I I ja. That legislation represented the largest federal investment in water infrastructure in our nations history, delivering more than 50 million for drinking water, wastewater, stormwater programs.
▶ 0:18:54Chair Capito: Since then, thousands of projects have started, including to upgrade treatment plants, replace aging systems, and support the needs of our small communities. This law is moving our nation's water infrastructure systems forward. Despite this progress, the historic movement of the -- historic investment of the iija expires next year and we must get to work now to rebuild -- to build on the progress while addressing any concerns with its implementation.
▶ 0:19:22Chair Capito: As we work together to reauthorize the iija water programs, I will prioritize programs that strengthen underserved communities' abilities to deliver water projects, reinforce the cooperative federalism principle embedded in our laws, and focus our outcomes on outcomes that prioritize safe water and sound of the structure.
▶ 0:19:43Chair Capito: I can say anecdotally in my small state of west virginia there are still small pockets of our community that don't have access to clean drinking water that they should and deserve to have. Achieving those goals requires us to take a clear eyed look at the challenges communities face and ensure the tools that we are providing are as effective and accessible as possible. First, we must seek to simplify the delivery mechanisms for water infrastructure.
▶ 0:20:11Chair Capito: Funding, this is a repeating theme and everything we are looking at. Many small and underserved communities continue to face barriers to access to federal money. Communities may struggle with capacity, technical complexities, and long federal timelines of dispersing the funding. This can lead to communities giving up before they even get a shovel in the ground.
▶ 0:20:34Chair Capito: We can fix these issues by providing targeted technical resources and assistance to help utilities and local governments navigate complex funding applications and simplifying the environmental protection agency's processes. Second, our reauthorization should reinforce what works, including honoring the foundational principle of cooperative federalism.
▶ 0:20:57Chair Capito: For decades, the clean water act and safe drinking water act have recognized that states, not washington, are best positioned to understand the infrastructure needs of our communities. Federal funding and oversight are important, but implementation must be led by the states.
▶ 0:21:13Chair Capito: The biden epa shifted away from the balance congress intended between federal support and state leadership by pushing one-size-fits-all mandates and layering on new criteria that go far beyond what congress has authorized. We have seen the increased emphasis on environmental justice initiatives.
▶ 0:21:34Chair Capito: While the goal of supporting all underserved communities regardless of background is broadly supported, implementation of these environmental justice initiatives has, at times, departed from the statute's original direction and straight from that broader goal. Directing resources to underserved communities was a shared goal when we wrote the iija, and the commitment remains.
▶ 0:21:58Chair Capito: We did not write a law that enables agencies to introduce new eligibility standards or funding or meal as that may unintentionally overlook real infrastructure needs and overlook state priorities. That approach is not only counterproductive, it risks leaving behind very communities that these programs were designed to help.
▶ 0:22:22Chair Capito: Many low income and underserved communities across the country continue to grapple with major water infrastructure needs, yet rigid eligibility requirements in recent funding programs have left some of them behind. That runs counter to the bipartisan goals that we said when the law was written, to ensure all communities have a fair opportunity to benefit from these important programs.
▶ 0:22:44Chair Capito: That is why we dedicated funds for systems of different sizes and provided state-revolving funds the flexibility for each state to meet their individual needs. This committee worked in a bipartisan way to craft these programs, and going forward implementation must remain true to the intent. Not drift into interpretations that complicate access or confuse applicants.
▶ 0:23:12Chair Capito: My third guiding principle is that a successful implementation of the epa water program must be focused on outcomes. In enacting policies not consistently driven by successful outcomes, it will ensure that every american no matter where they live can count on the basic services they deserve. That is what the committee has always focused on and what I will continue to prioritize as the chair.
▶ 0:23:38Chair Capito: I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and to kick off our work to improve our nation's water infrastructure programs. I will recognize senator schiff. He will give an opening statement in lieu of ranking member whitehouse's absence.
▶ 0:23:57Sen. Schiff: Thank you, chair capito, for your focus on improving water infrastructure and your hard work on the provisions in the bipartisan infrastructure law that we are talking about today. I want to thank the witnesses for being here to discuss this important topic. As the chair mentioned, senator whitehouse could not be here and I'm happy to step in for him as my role as the raking number on the fishing, wildlife subcommittee. Access to safe drinking water is a right, not a privilege.
▶ 0:24:29Sen. Schiff: All understand that we cannot survive without a safe and reliable supply of water. Yet, there are too many communities in my home state of california and across the country that struggle with old and dilapidated water infrastructure and lead pipes. These systems need to be brought into the 21st century. We don't use lead in our water service lines anymore because we know that there is no safe level of lead in our water.
▶ 0:24:55Sen. Schiff: Lead can cause fertility problems for men and women, high blood pressure, nervous system disorders, memory issues, and decreased kidney function. Lead exposure is especially dangerous for children. It can cause children to suffer from lowered iq, behavioral problems, slow growth, and hearing issues. We have known this for a while. It is why the U.S. government invested so much on a bipartisan basis on lead abatement.
▶ 0:25:24Sen. Schiff: 9 million lead service lines run through communities across america. These are not cheap to find, remove, and replace, but I can tell you it remains absolutely necessary that we do so. This is not optional. It is not something that we can minimize or defund. Water systems across america are also grappling with a pervasive challenge of pfas contamination.
▶ 0:25:50Sen. Schiff: Yorba linda, california is home to the largest pfas treatment plant in the country and california has been ahead of the curve in investing in filtration, but our utilities especially in california' as rural areas, need federal support to address pfas and other contaminants. Aging water infrastructure not only threatens public health but our national egg -- an economic security.
▶ 0:26:17Sen. Schiff: According to the epa there are 150 thousand public drinking water systems in america. U.S. government accountability office's warned us that they are all facing increasing cybersecurity-related risks. The water systems tell congress all the time that they have to defend against consistent cyber security threats and attacks from nationstates like china and iran and rogue cyber criminals. A successful large-scale attack could have catastrophic results.
▶ 0:26:47Sen. Schiff: Californians know that the united states is currently the global leader in ai innovation and development and want to keep it that way. It takes hundreds of billions of gallons of clean water and a lot of energy to run data centers and manufacture microchips in the U.S. each year.
▶ 0:27:01Sen. Schiff: If we don't provide the necessary support to ensure that america has a water infrastructure system, a modern one, we risks eating our economic and technological -- ceding our economic and technological leadership to china. Wastewater and stormwater systems will need another $630 billion.
▶ 0:27:30Sen. Schiff: The bipartisan infrastructure law invested over $50 billion in our water. Thanks to this committee's work communities are able to access financial support for water infrastructure that was previously out of reach through mechanisms like principal forgiveness or grants. Finally, I would be remiss if I didn't emphasize that this is why we need a high functioning epa. The current administration has fired hundreds of epa employees without cause and is reportedly trying to potentially fire thousands more.
▶ 0:28:00Sen. Schiff: The administrator clearly stated his intent to submit huge budget cut the congress. We need experts at epa to implement funding for water infrastructure, to write reasonable science-based protective standards that keep contaminants out of our water, and work with states and communities to ensure that our water systems are ready to face modern challenges, especially as the changing climate puts added stress on water systems across the nation. The bipartisan infrastructure law was a great start in providing needed investments to our community water systems.
▶ 0:28:31Sen. Schiff: It must be just that, the start. To com to c support communities and global economic leadership, we must come together as we have before to deliver on this fundamental need. With that, yield to the chairman. >> thank you, senator schiff. We will now turn our attention to our witnesses for their opening remarks.
▶ 0:29:00Sen. Schiff: Our first witness is kyle dreyfuss-wells, the chief executive officer at the northeast ohio regional sewer district. In this role, they work to provide regional sanitary and storm water management services to more than one million residents in 63 communities across the lake erie watershed. This morning they are testifying on behalf of of the national association of clean water agencies.
▶ 0:29:29Sen. Schiff: I will now recognize them for five minutes for her opening statement.
▶ 0:29:42Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Are we good? Good morning. Thank you chairman boozman, senator schiff, members of the community on environment and public works. I'm kyle dreyfuss-wells, chief executive officer of the northeast ohio regional sewer district, a public utility serving cleveland, ohio and 62 surrounding communities. We are members of the national association of clean water agencies and I am the treasurer.
▶ 0:30:10Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Thank you for inviting me to testify about the importance of the clean water state revolving fund and infrastructure investment and jobs act. The northeast ohio regional sewer district is one of the largest wastewater treatment and stormwater management utilities in ohio, serving one million customers across 363 square miles of the lake erie watershed. We do this in 2025 with 190 $1 million annual operating budget and $276 million capital program.
▶ 0:30:40Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: The clean water srf is an essential financing told helps us and our member communities maintain the clean water infrastructure necessary to protect public health and the water quality on which the economic vitality of northeast ohio depends. Through my work with an aqua I know that it is not alone. It is critical for communities across the country.
▶ 0:31:08Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Iija increases accelerating investment and they strongly support the clean water srf reauthorization with iija funding levels as the baseline. As one of the largest users of the clean water srf in ohio, they financed 111 wastewater projects to date. Our decision beginning in the 1990's to use the clean water srf over other funding sources has resulted in significant savings.
▶ 0:31:38Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: For example, our shoreline storage tunnel is a 220 million dollar project under our 3 billion-dollar federally mandated program to reduce combined sewer overflow. It is one of seven deep tunnels we are constructing, 14,500 feet long, 23 feet in diameter, and will eliminate 350 million gallons of lake erie pollution each year.
▶ 0:32:04Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: It took five years to construct and we finance it through the clean water srf at very favorable terms. While also deferring principal payments for 20 years. If we compare this to realistic financing options through bonds with less advantageous terms, 40 years at 3% interest, over the life of this one loan this is
▶ 0:32:35Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: $50 million in savings. Beyond the savings, we found that the flexibility provided under the clean water srf program brings great value to our rate payers and customers as part of our oval -- our overall effort for rate control and stability. These flexibilities include below-market interest rates, deferred principal, extended terms, no need for offering documents or official statements, and no bond rating or bond counsel costs.
▶ 0:33:02Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: These features of the clean water srf program set it apart and are particularly helpful for smaller, less sophisticated borrowers with limited exposure to debt financing. We are also grateful for the iija's inclusion of supplement of grant funding through principal forgiveness.
▶ 0:33:21Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: This brought the clean water srf to the attention of many of our member communities as they work to address $3.4 billion in local clean water infrastructure needs impacting the quality of life of their residents. Over the last two years, working with our member communities, we have found that it is still difficult for them to access the fund.
▶ 0:33:43Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: This is largely due to local government's hesitancy to absorb additional debt, staffing capacity, and competing community priorities. To mitigate these barriers, in 2023 we began to assist our member communities. Maple heights, ohio is one example of a community that has received more than 875 thousand dollars in principal forgiveness since 2023 to address basement flooding and failing local infrastructure.
▶ 0:34:14Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: They address 500 flooded basements and replaced 56,000 feet of sewers. As I close, I would like to emphasize that our work in northeast ohio wouldn't be possible without the commitment and innovation of ohio epa and ohio water development authority. Together, these agencies implement the ohio clean water srf and are continually working to make the program more accessible and usable for ohio communities.
▶ 0:34:44Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: The clean water srf is an important and highly successful federal, state, local partnership that we can see is accelerating critical clean water investment. I appreciate the opportunity to testify and look forward to the discussion.
▶ 0:34:58Sen. Boozman: Our next witness is tom gault that, the sitting utility superintendent and city administrator for west point, nebraska, with more than 40 years of experience in utility industry and has served as the national director of rural water since 2005. This morning Mr.
▶ 0:35:22Sen. Boozman: Goulette is testifying on behalf of the national rural water association.
▶ 0:35:31Mr. Goulette: Good morning, chairman boozman. Members of the committee. My name is tom goulette, the president of the nebraska water association representing 460 seven rural water utilities, 92 percent of all system serving under 10,000 people in nebraska. I'm here today on the behalf of the national rural water association where I serve as the executive committee treasurer.
▶ 0:35:59Mr. Goulette: It is the largest utility association with over 31,000 members dedicated to drinking water, environmental protection, public health in all 50 states. I come from the city of west point, nebraska, a community of 3500 north of omaha where there are more cattle than people. I serve our community as the sitting administrator and utility superintendent, responsible for water, wastewater, and electric utilities.
▶ 0:36:27Mr. Goulette: We operate 1600 water meters, and employee 32 full-time staff. Four employees work in the water department. I started municipal work in the early 1980's as a maintenance laborer in a wastewater plant and worked my way of gaining experience operating and evaluating facilities across the country. I spent the last 30 years helping small communities like mine address infrastructure challenges. In rural america, we don't have the luxury of passing the buck.
▶ 0:36:55Mr. Goulette: In west point, we completely reconstructed our wastewater treatment plant with state assistance, a loan that we are close to paying off. Most recently, we faced a serious problem with our water system. Our aging filters failed to remove -- leading to discolored water appeared restaurants, schools, and our hospital had to install additional filtration.
▶ 0:37:22Mr. Goulette: High levels of manganese are public health risks, especially to the nervous system. Thanks to a low interest ringing water srf loan at 1.5 percent interest and a small administrative fee, five hundred 53 dollars in principal forgiveness, we secured $2.76 million to replace our filters, piping, valves, and install the backup generator. Without that assistance, our residents would face bills that they couldn't afford.
▶ 0:37:50Mr. Goulette: It is an honor to share the small, rule community perspective on the infrastructure investment and jobs act. Are towns like west point, the iija will make historic investments possible with funding that respects local leadership that helps us be better public servants. Without meaningful grant assistance, the price of wastewater services would become unaffordable for working families.
▶ 0:38:16Mr. Goulette: This assistance is imperative to prevent rural depopulation and a shrinking customer base, which in turn drives up the cost per household, especially as repairing and replacing aging infrastructure is getting harder every year and the regulatory compliance landscape grows more complex. That is why the technical assistance provisions that you included in the iija are so important. Many small communities don't have the financial or technical capacity to access federal programs on their own.
▶ 0:38:46Mr. Goulette: Rural water has built a trusted network of local experts that help disadvantaged and rural communities avoid penalties and access srf infrastructure funding. Without this technical assistance offered by each state rural water association, many communities would be left behind. Another major concern is pfas regulation.
▶ 0:39:07Mr. Goulette: Water systems support the removal of these harmful substances. We did not put pfas into the environment and should not be penalized. That is why we support the water system's pfas act of the superfund law protecting water systems and their customers from devastating fees and cleanup costs. Lastly, the water sector workforce is growing. The crisis is growing.
▶ 0:39:36Mr. Goulette: Over half of our skilled operators are expected to retire within the next decade. Thanks to the community's leadership and chairman capital's support, rural water launched the first federally approved apprenticeship program.
▶ 0:39:51Mr. Goulette: Today, 34 state rural water associations have earned federal approval for their printer should programs and we have been rolled or graduated over nine hundred apprentices nationwide and so far are actively training the next generation of operators who will be on the frontlines of the public health protection of small and rural communities across the country. Mr. chairman, members of the community, thank you for the opportunity to testify.
▶ 0:40:16Sen. Boozman: Our final witness is the director of drinking water and environmental health from the michigan department of great lakes and energy. In 2017 Mr. oswald retired as a colonel from the U.S. air force with 28 years of experience in construction, repair, and maintenance of critical infrastructure. Mr.
▶ 0:40:41Sen. Boozman: Oswald also serves as the president of the association of state drinking water administrators and is testifying on the behalf today.
▶ 0:40:51Mr. Oswald: Members of the environment and public works committee, I am eric oswald. 57 members include the 50 drinking water programs, five territorial programs, and the navajo nation, and the district of columbia referred to as states. Aswa members ensure public drinking water.
▶ 0:41:21Mr. Oswald: I'm also the drinking water administrator for michigan, however I would like to make it clear that my testimony today is on behalf of aswa and not the state of michigan. Thank you for this opportunity to provide the perspective of aswa. The provision of safe drinking water and investment in our nation's drinking water infrastructure is paramount to economic development.
▶ 0:41:49Mr. Oswald: This will highlight drinking water protections, a bill that will provide recommendations to streamline implementation. The bill provides an unprecedented and much-needed investment in our nation's drinking water infrastructure, stimulating long-overdue infrastructure projects that would have otherwise been possible. These address a wide range of needed improvements ranging in size from 43,000 to $65 million. Including basic upgrades to address long-standing needs to full-scale infrastructure overhauls.
▶ 0:42:22Mr. Oswald: Improvement of distribution systems, installation of treatment for pfas, and other emerging contaminants. In addition to the infrastructure projects, several states use portions of the funding for staff for implementation of bill projects and address regulatory requirements that have been unfunded through a stagnant gra nt and a decreasing capitalization grant.
▶ 0:42:48Mr. Oswald: Treating visibility and momentum around water structure needs and the role of programs as trusted partners in long-term infrastructure resilience. The pws as grant program is a critical funding source for state programs that has not kept up with inflation and the cost associated with maintaining a state drinking water program.
▶ 0:43:07Mr. Oswald: Pwss are used to support staff salaries and inspector support staff engineers with the expected fy 26 to experience major funding cuts and without full restoration of state revolving fund capitalization grant state will need to cut important programs and services. Bill funding is historic drinking water investment, the needs dwarf the funding.
▶ 0:43:31Mr. Oswald: The epa most recent needs survey, -- underscoring the importance of continued federal investment. Our recommendations. While bill funding has been an official, state programs have faced challenges. Flexibility with funding will be critical to achieving the goal of helping citizens and communities that need funding the most. States and epa must work together to make funding applications streamlined, efficient, and simple.
▶ 0:44:02Mr. Oswald: Recommending the development of waivers in limited circumstances for the requirements of the body america, build america asked to make these funds simpler to obtain for those most in need. Greater flexibility in how states meet subsidy requirements is essential. Funding requires exact percentages for principal forgiveness greeting administrative challenges.
▶ 0:44:22Mr. Oswald: 49% of funding for lead service line replacement must be provided as additional subsidy through principal forgiveness or grants allowing a range or up to percentage rather than fixed threshold would reduce up limitation. Investment should allow states more discretion over project eligibility and priority while dedicated funding for lead service line replacement and emerging contaminants is critical, the prescriptive nature of some funding limits limits the ability of states to fund projects that a drug more urgent local needs.
▶ 0:44:49Mr. Oswald: An extended timeframe longer than five years would also be beneficial for the states. Five-year timeframe isn't feasible for complex projects and detailed funding requirements. The current approach results in a resource strain on states to administer multiple grants with unique requirements. To improve long-term success, future funding should be accompanied by streamlined federal guidance and simplified reporting. Sustainability is critical for federal and state programs as well.
▶ 0:45:18Mr. Oswald: While the additional subsidy provided through the bill is essential there may be unintended consequences of an overreliance on grant funding. While bill funding is substantial we need to ensure that water systems operate and maintain their infrastructure. They should not use a long-term strategy, the bill funding should be used as a first step in addressing current and future needs of the drinking water infrastructure.
▶ 0:45:46Mr. Oswald: Cybersecurity is an important and challenging issue due to limited resource and a lack of detailed knowledge across the sector. Federal oversight and leadership is needed to make the most impactful steps forward. Cybersecurity accountability must be approached holistically, recognizing that the responsibility isn't solely with the water sector. In closing, asdwa and his members remain committed to guarding our nation's drinking water and we appreciate bill funding and have suggestions to maximize its impact.
▶ 0:46:15Mr. Oswald: We look forward to working together to protect the public health of all americans. I want to sincerely thank you for your continued investment in america' is public water systems and the people that they serve. I would be happy to answer any questions and thank you for inviting me.
▶ 0:46:36Sen. Padilla: Thank you for the opportunity to chime in on the subject at hand. In 2021, one of the first things that we did in this committee you may recall, was past the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure act, which became the foundation for the bipartisan infrastructure law.
▶ 0:47:02Sen. Padilla: The bill included provisions that champion for water reuse and stormwater management, replaced lead service lines and prioritized technical assistance -- you spoke to this -- for small systems that often struggle to be able to provide that for themselves. I am proud that the committee's bipartisan efforts became the largest single federal investment in water infrastructure in history.
▶ 0:47:34Sen. Padilla: Things to the iija, small water systems can now treat pervasive contaminants in drinking. Small communities can now rebuild their water systems after historic storms left a town completely underwater.
▶ 0:48:00Sen. Padilla: The community of colusa, california was able to install water meters and fire hydrants to prepare for inevitable western drought conditions. Whether they face fire, floods, or drought, or aging infrastructure and emerging contaminants, water systems and the customers that they serve are facing more than $1.2 trillion in infrastructure needs over the next two decades.
▶ 0:48:25Sen. Padilla: As the witnesses note, as they know better than most, rate payers will bear the brunt of the cost, especially in small and rural and tribal communities, because by nature they have smaller rate bases. Many rural communities, including tribal communities, communities near sites of legacy industrial contaminants end up paying twice.
▶ 0:48:53Sen. Padilla: Once for the contaminated water flowing through their pipes, and once again for the bottled water that they are forced to rely on. It is hard to believe that in fresno county a typical family has to pay $280 a month for water that fails to comply with our clean drinking water standards. It is one of the reasons that I have been pushing for a permanent national water assistance program, like we do for energy bills.
▶ 0:49:25Sen. Padilla: My question is for all of you, starting with Ms. dreyfuss-wells. As we examine the different ways to improve the administration of the srf's, how can a permanent water assistance program help cushion the impacts of infrastructure upgrades for water systems and the people that they serve?
▶ 0:49:46Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Thank you. It's very important to make sure that we bring all of our customers with us. As you point out, low income water assistance is important to make sure that those folks who do have difficulty paying their bills have the support to be able to pay their bills.
▶ 0:50:05Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: The northeast ohio regional sewer district, our leadership has taken this seriously since 2009 and we've had our own affordability programs and we work hard to make sure that we connect eligible customers with those programs, another significant barrier. Low income household water assistance, it's important to make sure that you bring all of your customers with you and can keep the costs low for your utility across all of your ratepayers.
▶ 0:50:31Sen. Padilla: I would like to hear from each of you.
▶ 0:50:38Mr. Goulette: Many small communities already stretched their dollars. We don't want them to become more disadvantaged. Keeping the rates competitive while making them reasonably desirable and affordable, I think that is the key.
▶ 0:50:59Mr. Oswald: Those types of programs are incredibly important. They lessen the burden by providing technical and financial assistance to smaller communities. We have many regional systems that do these programs on their own. They try to make water more affordable. It is a big challenge for them. I know federal funding has made a huge impact for our systems.
▶ 0:51:27Sen. Padilla: Correct me if I'm wrong, but federal investment in water infrastructure has declined -- if my numbers are correct -- by 77% since their peak in the 1970's? The federal government's share of upgrades. Maintenance is another conversation. How critical is investment for supporting water affordability?
▶ 0:51:52Mr. Oswald: Incredibly important. It offsets ratepayer expenses, and can make more efficient investment across the board in drinking water, but it has to be followed up. We have this incredible investment in infrastructure and we need to make sure that we maintain that investment and not let -- not ignore it into the future or we will be facing this problem again in 20 or 30 years.
▶ 0:52:17Sen. Padilla: Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:52:20Chair Boozman: In arkansas -- apologize. I woke up this morning with some kind of allergy. I don't think that my voice -- I think that my voice will hold up for a little good. In arkansas we are finding ourselves in a position with the lead service, funding is not being spent and leftover funds will go to other states under current law. This isn't because there isn't a need for water infrastructure upgrades.
▶ 0:52:51Chair Boozman: It is largely due to the requirement of the 50% match to grant funds in the small, disadvantaged communities. They simply can't come up with the funding. In a recent survey the arkansas natural resources commission received over $5 billion in requests for water and wastewater projects. We have this tremendous need and could use any leftover replacement funding for additional water for structure projects.
▶ 0:53:21Chair Boozman: Our needs are just different. Mr. goulette, you mentioned small communities in nebraska are having a similar problem. Can you speak to your experience navigating the matching requirement and how increased flexibility, match waivers, could help your community and others like it better meet their water infrastructure needs?
▶ 0:53:46Mr. Goulette: One of the struggles was the matching funds coming together for that purpose. Those communities will be taking those funds from somewhere else to bring the match to that water system. For us in west point, we were fortunate enough to do some planning and set-asides and were able to retire some debt early on expecting the water project that we just completed.
▶ 0:54:16Mr. Goulette: That was one of the big proactive aspects of it and one of the things that we do on the rural water side. We try to remain proactive and plan in advance what the upcoming needs of the communities are, as we did in west point.
▶ 0:54:33Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Senator, the way that communities are able to get projects done is through long-term planning. Understanding the need in their community and to be able to actually build a project-funding portfolio around any given project. We have seen in northeast ohio that our under resourced communities have been able to have the funding to put together a plan. We have supported that at the sewer district.
▶ 0:55:01Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: They can rely on iija principal forgiveness and state funding and some funding from the sewer district to put that together and meet those match requirements. Any reduction in those match requirements would help communities take advantage of the funding and get projects done.
▶ 0:55:17Chair Boozman: Mr. oswald?
▶ 0:55:18Mr. Oswald: I agree. We need flexibility. The prescriptive 49% or 50% subsidy creates problems when actual construction costs differ from of the estimates were. We found that to be an issue.
▶ 0:55:34Mr. Oswald: It prevents communities from doing the dig once if they have to do for the lead service line or execute the lead service line replacements apart from water main replacements and creates an unnecessary burden on the community to dig up the roads more than one time.
▶ 0:55:51Chair Boozman: Very good. All of you, can you give one or two examples from your community where recent federal or state investments made a measurable difference in water or wastewater infrastructure? Based on those experiences, what improvements could help ensure funding reaches the communities that needed it the most and is used as effectively as possible?
▶ 0:56:13Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: I will give two examples. I talked about maple heights, ohio, which is a typical cleveland suburb under resourced community that has taken a deliberate approach to deal with its financial issues. They were able through the infrastructure investment jobs act principal forgiveness to address basement flooding and feeling sewers in their streets.
▶ 0:56:37Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Basement flooding, sewage in people's basements, really the first line of a public health issue that needs to be addressed. Maple heights, ohio has had success. Richmond heights has well addressed flooded streets and basement flooding. It has been a wonderful resource for those communities.
▶ 0:56:59Mr. Goulette: I would have to defer back to our agency and get that information and get back to you.
▶ 0:57:06Mr. Oswald: I will use the example of ben harbor, michigan where a cooperative effort between the local citizens, state of michigan, and the federal epa resulted in the elimination of all lead service lines in the community over a year time. That wouldn't have been possible without this infrastructure funding. So, that was a great example of how cooperative federalism and everyone working in partnership can make a huge impact on the community.
▶ 0:57:34Chair Boozman: Senator schiff.
▶ 0:57:37Sen. Schiff: Thank you, Mr. chairman. During the last administration the epa issued the first legally enforceable drinking water standard for pfas, forever chemicals. In california, many water systems were already working on this issue and started investing in pfas filtration years before the regulation.
▶ 0:58:02Sen. Schiff: Nevertheless, in california and around the country, the need to continue focusing on getting pfas out of our water is overwhelming and expensive. How would you prioritize the need to remove pfas given that the cost of removal is extraordinary, the cost of removing -- of not removing it is far greater, but how would you triage that problem and identify where to make
▶ 0:58:32Sen. Schiff: Investments first? Similarly, the cost of getting out all the lead is extraordinary, well beyond anything we put in the infrastructure bill. How do we triage that problem as well? . We have been testing -- Mr.
▶ 0:58:47Oswald: We have been testing for pfas for over five years. First is to know where it is at. We take a balanced approach to systems. First, we look at the source water to see if they can change source water. Then we look if there is a community near them that they can hook up to that doesn't have the pfas issue and foster a regional approach to pfas.
▶ 0:59:13Oswald: Obviously, the treatment, which can be extremely expensive, and then you have to deal with the waste product of that treatment as well. Lead service lines are a balancing act and are incredibly expensive. The average cost in michigan is $5,000 to remove a lead service line and it is up to $8,000 or $10,000 now. You have to balance that investment against investments in distribution systems and water treatment plant upgrades.
▶ 0:59:40Oswald: I think that a balanced approach and a given timeline is the best way to address that so that we don't bankrupt the checkbook, you know, with removing all of these lead service lines at once with upgrading water treatment plants and things of that scale. Again, it is a balanced approach . It is triage.
▶ 1:00:04Oswald: Looking what we can do in a reasonable manner and reasonable timeframe not on the backs of ratepayers in totality, but a balanced approach in funding.
▶ 1:00:14Sen. Schiff: Opening the question to the other witnesses, what is the state of the treatment to remove pfas? Are we able to remove all pfas chemicals or only certain pfas chemicals? How do we deal with the waste created as a result?
▶ 1:00:32Mr. Goulette: It's an economy of scale as to what the financial impact would be. We have a small community south of us of about 240 residents with a significant pfas showing up in their drinking water system. They have two wells equal and showing pfas. It would be more economical to hook up to another water syste or find another water source rather than go through a treatment process and everything else that goes along with pfas.
▶ 1:01:05Sen. Schiff: If they don't use it for drinking water, can it be used for irrigation? Does that move the pfas into the food that they eat?
▶ 1:01:14Mr. Goulette: I think it moves it back into the food chain. We are a farming community. There is a lot of agriculture. I think that that would absorb the pfas and we would have other issues. >> two things.
▶ 1:01:30Mr. Goulette: From the northeast ohio sewer perspective, pfas hasn't emerged as a significant issue in our watersheds, but we are preparing for it as an emerging contaminant and have been able to access through the iija emerging eminence funding some dollars to look at landfill leach as a treatment which can be a potential source of pfas and laboratory equipment to analyze products coming from us.
▶ 1:02:01Mr. Goulette: From the nacwa perspective, we are focused on dealing with pfas at the source, companies producing pfas, as opposed to having the burden come to public wastewater treatment facilities where we are the end of the conversation and not the beginning.
▶ 1:02:17Sen. Schiff: Do you have a sense of the state of technology? Is it capable of removing the different forms of pfas or are we not there yet?
▶ 1:02:29Mr. Oswald: I think we can remove all the pfas. We have reverse osmosis and activated carbon. It's the waste stream you generate. You send it to a land feel? How do you deal with that so you aren't reintroducing it into the environment and creating more problems? We can treat it and get it down, but it's expensive and you have to deal with the waste.
▶ 1:02:51Sen. Schiff: Where is the research being done? Is that something that congress can further augment to -- what is the most cost-effective way to handle the waste that results from that filtration process?
▶ 1:03:06Mr. Oswald: We rely heavily on the epa office of research and development for that type of expertise to do that research and inform us of the best methodologies and the impacts.
▶ 1:03:17Sen. Schiff: One last question on lead. Triaging the lead problem, I assume that the severity of the problem in a particular venue depends on the degradation of the pipe, but also the acidity of the water. What would that tell us if anything about how we triage that problem? Is it a matter of testing the water to see what combination of those factors produces the worst result?
▶ 1:03:49Sen. Schiff: Are there other ways to do an analysis of the state of different types so that we can identify which to replace first?
▶ 1:03:56Mr. Oswald: We do that through pipe loop studies and there is a lot of research. The bottom line is that we have to get the lead out of the system. We can treat the water and make it noncorrosive, but you are one instance or one accident away from creating an issue where the water gets very acidic for a time and it takes the protective coating off of the lead pipes.
▶ 1:04:22Mr. Oswald: We can do a lot of treatment on the positive side for corrosion control treatment, but it is a band-aid on the problem and we have to get the let out of the system. To a certain extent you have to deal with plumbing, too. You have a lot of lead inside of houses in the form of fixtures that can also create a problem. We have systems that have no lead service lines and they still have led action level exceedances.
▶ 1:04:53Chair Boozman: Senator alsobrooks.
▶ 1:04:56Sen. Alsobrooks: : thank you Mr. chair and to our witnesses for being here today. The bipartisan infrastructure law has been really transformative for the water infrastructure across the country. Especially in a place like maryland.
▶ 1:05:13Sen. Alsobrooks: The funding that congress provides supports a range of key programs, which finance critical upgrades to wastewater and drinking water systems and enhances stormwater and flood resilience infrastructure, and invests in lead pipe replacement and water system sustainability. These programs have been absolutely transformative in maryland.
▶ 1:05:37Sen. Alsobrooks: It has helped maryland modernize its infrastructure and reduce pollution and deliver clean and safe water to communities, especially those that have historically faced economic barriers. I look forward to working with this committee to build on the success of the bipartisan infrastructure law during the few questions that I have, the first will be for Mr. oswald and Ms. dreyfuss-wells.
▶ 1:06:02Sen. Alsobrooks: The bipartisan law provided funding to solve long-standing problems and address pressing health challenges in our community. In maryland, state revolving fund supports programs that improve drinking water and remove lead service lines in baltimore and stops sewer backups in basements and keeps wastewater out of the chesapeake day. The bipartisan infrastructure law was a critical down payment on upgrading our nation's water infrastructure, but we know that it was a down payment.
▶ 1:06:32Sen. Alsobrooks: The question for that, for you, first of all, if we don't reauthorize the bipartisan infrastructure law programs that continue to provide hunting, the gap in -- provide funding, the gap in maryland would be about $125 million per year. The question for Mr. oswald and Ms. dreyfuss-wells, would you speak to what it would mean for your organizations and for drinking water and clean water systems across the country of the federal government stops partnering in this effort?
▶ 1:07:04Mr. Oswald: We have a tremendous backlog of deferred repair and maintenance and replacement in our drinking water infrastructure similar to our highways. The tougher problem with drinking water is that it is out of sight and out of mind. We tend to let that infrastructure go to the point that it fails. We have systems over 80 100 years old in our distribution systems. Those need to be replaced.
▶ 1:07:33Mr. Oswald: The bipartisan infrastructure law is a mechanism to get a down payment on that backlog and get the backlog reduced or eliminated in most cases. Personally, as state drinking water administrators, we have to do a better job with asset management. When we get the backlog taken care of, and it is a huge backlog, we have to do a better job making sure that our systems use proper asset management to make sure that the investment doesn't go to waste.
▶ 1:08:02Mr. Oswald: That we don't ignore it for the next 50 years. That we operate it as needed to protect that investment. Like a car, you can change the oil and it will last a long time. 20,000 miles and you change the oil or the engine, it gets more costly. It is a combination. We need the bipartisan infrastructure funding to get rid of the backlog and we need to do a better job of maintaining that system.
▶ 1:08:28Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: I would add that yes, there is a huge backlog. Communities have this across the country. We need to have the funding to address the issues and address issues going forward, but I want to highlight that the clean water srs is a financing tool. -- srf is a financing tool. They need that to know that it is they are to do long-term financial planning and build a package around a particular project. That is how we deliver projects efficiently.
▶ 1:08:59Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: I know that it is a snooze, but project management is the silver bullet. The clean water srf is essential. It is the lowest cost of borrowing for utilities across the country. That is essential.
▶ 1:09:12Sen. Alsobrooks: I will ask quickly about the chesapeake bay for Mr. oswald. As the largest estuary in the united states, the chesapeake day is a critical source of drinking water. The bay has been under stress due to pollution and climate change significantly impacting water quality and affordability in the bay. For this reason and others, there are ongoing efforts to restore and protect the bay.
▶ 1:09:41Sen. Alsobrooks: We do discuss how protecting the chesapeake day lowers the cost -- chesapeake bay lowers the cost and increases the availability of drinking water's in communities?
▶ 1:09:54Mr. Oswald: Source water protection is foundational in the drinking water business. We try to be protective of our water sources, be they surface water or ground. Protecting the surface water lowers the bill for everybody, because you don't have to treat as much. You eliminate things like harmful algae blooms that can sicken a lot of people quickly.
▶ 1:10:13Mr. Oswald: Investing in that with our clean water partners is huge to reduce nutrient loads on bodies of water like that and reduce the pollution going in from pfas, micro plastics, or whatever emerging contaminant you want to talk to.
▶ 1:10:33Chair Capito: I am back and ready to ask a couple of questions. Mr. goulette, I mentioned in my opening statement several times the challenges of rural communities in facing these infrastructure challenges. Many of the systems, if there are existing systems, are so old .
▶ 1:10:56Chair Capito: The one thing that has always bothered me about our systems in west virginia is the leakage, and I'm sure that is from very old technologies. Based on your experience, what are the greatest challenges that rule communities face and what policies should we prioritize to provide technical tools to help people to help people address these issues?
▶ 1:11:18Mr. Goulette: In nebraska specifically, and across the nation, is geographic isolation of small systems. Being able to have nebraska rule rule -rural water -- when there is the lack of economy of scale and untrained operators, because we see so much turnover in the field also right now.
▶ 1:11:45Mr. Goulette: The other thing that we are spending a lot of time with is educating the local governments in those small communities, because there is such a significant turnover the ever changing regulatory environment also plays a part.
▶ 1:11:58Chair Capito: With your circuit writers, are they stretched too thin? Everyone wants more, but in a practical sense, can they cover nebraska?
▶ 1:12:15Mr. Goulette: We have three circuit writers that average about 35,000 miles a year. But they are basically on an on-call basis when needed some type of help or environmental issues that impact their systems.
▶ 1:12:38Chair Capito: Ms. dreyfuss-wells, I want to talk about the cooperative federalism principles that I outlined in my opening statement. From your experience administrating projects from state revolving funds, discuss the importance for states to maintain their flexibility to prioritize what best meets their needs. The other issue, and I don't know if you can address this, the issue of financing large projects.
▶ 1:13:04Chair Capito: A state revolving fund is in many cases only one portion of those. You could have other state sources were federal sources -- state sources, federal sources, county sources, but the ratepayer is always gone back to for rate increases, and that's difficult for communities as they try to face this.
▶ 1:13:29Chair Capito: First, talk about the importance of maintaining flexibility, and then any other creative ideas that you have run into on the financing aspect.
▶ 1:13:35Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: I think that ohio is a great example of this flexibility. The ohio epa and ohio water development authority upon our clean water srf and for years have taken a very innovative approach to make sure that they understand the needs of communities and that they.
▶ 1:14:10Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: Loans with deferred principle payments. Certain portions of ohio, it is similar to west virginia.
▶ 1:14:34Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: That is where technical assistance is so important. We are talking about a township trustee. They probably have a consulting engineer if they are lucky. That consulting engineer will have to put that funding package together. They need to have the technical support to write a project application that will get funded.
▶ 1:14:54Chair Capito: I'm not sure who this question does address so I what there with all three of you. In the water portion there was some mediations for lead and lead pipes. Part of the issue I believe we have run into is how far does that money go? Does it go to the edge of the yard and the homeowner is in charge of it?
▶ 1:15:24Chair Capito: Does it go into the house? What have you found in that? I think we are acknowledging we will not get to where we want it to go with the emphasis program put forward. Does anybody have experience with that that they want to talk about? >> there is a private side. Usually at the curb stop. You have a valve you can shut off. In most cases it is a private -- it is privately owned.
▶ 1:15:54Chair Capito: The rest of the water main is publicly owned. Coordinating can be difficult.
▶ 1:15:57Chair Capito: Because the homeowner could own the lead part of it.
▶ 1:16:02Mr. Oswald: And they can refuse the water system to replace that. Most states have outlawed partial service line replacement because it can create issues. If the homeowner declines, you are stuck and you cannot replace anything. It is very problematic. That private and public ownership in the electricity and natural gas, it's an oddity.
▶ 1:16:27Mr. Oswald: In michigan, we require systems to replace the whole service line at their expense to eliminate environments of justice issues where a homeowner that could pay for their side gets the whole thing replaced, whereas a homeowner that cannot afford that, they don't get any led service line replacement. That is a huge challenge. The states differ on what laws govern that. Whether you can pay ratepayer funds to replace the private side.
▶ 1:16:55Chair Capito: Does anybody have a comment on that?
▶ 1:16:58Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: I am bouncing in my seat. It's an issue on the lead service line but also an issue on the sewer side. Much of the infiltration that we have of leaking of sanitary and storm sewers there's a big component on the private side. The only thing I vlad is this is where trust comes intaking sureu are before you come to their homes to ask to be able to do work on the private side.
▶ 1:17:29Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: That is something we focused on to northeast ohio.
▶ 1:17:31Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator ricketts.
▶ 1:17:35Sen. Britt: Gets -- Sen. britt:
▶ 1:17:42Ricketts: Tom, great to have you here to representative raskin. -- represent nebraska. If there is a job involving water in the state of nebraska in the last 40 years, tom has done that job. He's in west point. A great community there. Your depth of expertise is amazing. I will read off some of the stuff because it is impressive.
▶ 1:18:13Ricketts: Chairman of the governor's advisory council for drinking water, chairman of the mystical agency, chairman of the league of nebraska utilities section, president of the nebraska rural water just to name a few. Chairman of the nebraska disability small cities -- municipalities small cities legislative committee. Say hi to lynn for me.
▶ 1:18:40Ricketts: You have served as utility superintendent for the cedar west point since 1993. Edit city administrator to your business card in 2001, and you still have both titles today?
▶ 1:18:54Mr. Goulette: Yes. Small towns. People wear a lot of hats.
▶ 1:18:59Sen. Ricketts: Your post, you've been on the board since 2005 and serving as its -- on the executive committee. Thank you again for being here. We really appreciate your experience that you bring to this committee. Welcome.
▶ 1:19:20Sen. Ricketts: I would like to talk about many small committees face significant challenges in accessing and managing the federal infrastructure dollars due till limited staffing and technical expertise. We saw this in the department of transportation and so forth. When we met in february, the water association shared some of these barriers. What can congress consider making to federal programs to make them more efficient for small and rural communities?
▶ 1:19:49Mr. Goulette: A lot of it comes down to the simplifying the application requirements for the small communities. Typically they know best what their needs are going to be when it comes to upgrading systems or changing equipment and that type of thing, along with assistance from the nebraska rural water association. They are the negative assistance in quantifying that.
▶ 1:20:15Mr. Goulette: Once they can get to some type of formulation of what the community needs, that is when the e needs to go in. -- the application needs to go in. Once the project is identified in the community can have some buy-in for lack of a better term. The other thing is that reducing those match requirements allows small rural communities to stretch every dollar they have.
▶ 1:20:45Mr. Goulette: When they are looking at this and looking at the requirements to comply with that, it becomes difficult and they have to balance it out where the priorities lay within the financial capabilities of that community. Some of those projects get put on the shelf at that point.
▶ 1:21:01Sen. Ricketts: It's not necessarily true for west point because they are doing well. Is it fair to say that a lot of rural communities as the younger people move away and you are left with declining population of older folks, that adds to the complication of getting the water projects done?
▶ 1:21:17Mr. Goulette: It does. Along with that is the aging workforce. We see operators aging out. One and two man operations. Once the legacy leaves that community, they are difficult to replace. That makes the challenge even more difficult, to help sustained the community -- sustain the community.
▶ 1:21:41Sen. Ricketts: Is there something we can do and congress to help?
▶ 1:21:46Mr. Goulette: The apprenticeship program. Senator capito put it in place of years ago. We need to get that moving in nebraska. We need to get that funding moving in nebraska. We need the apprenticeship program and start that process to engage those communities and show them options and bring trained operators to the facilities.
▶ 1:22:07Sen. Ricketts: Can you give us how some of these federal funding programs have made cost prohibitive projects in small towns possible?
▶ 1:22:18Mr. Goulette: When you look at the projects themselves and looking at the market based on interest rates and that type of thing and the longevity, it makes it more economically feasible for small communities. There is the grand basis that they can also qualify for -- grant basis.
▶ 1:22:37Sen. Ricketts: Can you give me an example of a specific project?
▶ 1:22:42Mr. Goulette: The city of west point. We did the water project here a few years ago where we had a $2.7 million water treatment plant. Of that $2.7 million, $553,000 was loan forgiveness. In addition was the 1.5% interest rate plus the administrative fee for the state. It makes it economically feasible to get the programs in place rather than going out to the open market.
▶ 1:23:08Sen. Ricketts: Craig. -- great. We lost our chair. [laughter] I guess I'm in charge of the republican side now. I will take a moment to talk a little as well about an important project, not specifically related to drinking water but access to water in general in our state is important. We are the largest irrigated state in the country. I was in scotts bluff last week.
▶ 1:23:36Sen. Ricketts: The form they are making out collapsed while I was governor -- the fort laramie dam collapsed while I was governor. Through a program that built the canal 100 years ago. When it collapsed to cut off about 55,000 acres of nebraska farmland from getting irrigation water. That is huge for estate like nebraska where irrigation is big but also agriculture is our biggest industry in the state.
▶ 1:24:05Sen. Ricketts: We will be looking for opportunities to be able to have the federal government partner to be able to get the perimeter repairs. It is operating at 80% capacity. The idea of how expensive it is for these projects and how with the drinking water in west point, the costs for those farmers to pay the extra fees to get those total repairs done with the really challenging.
▶ 1:24:35Sen. Ricketts: That's another project. An example of how the federal government can help partner with states and local communities to get these water projects done. With that, senator schiff, you have asked your questions?
▶ 1:24:48Sen. Schatz: I did -- Sen.
▶ 1:24:53Schiff: I did.
▶ 1:24:56Sen. Ricketts: Senator rochester, we will send it to you.
▶ 1:25:06Sen. Brarochester: I really do believe this is such a critical hearing, particularly building on the successes. I am grateful we are also focusing specifically on water infrastructure. Many people might not know that delaware, even though we are a small state, we are urban, suburban, rural, and coastal.
▶ 1:25:34Sen. Brarochester: Our water issues are very much a microcosm of the country. In delaware, we are pleased for our rural communities to have places like seaford, delaware, where they were awarded a $2.1 million loan from iija to replace a seven-year-old drinking water mainline containing lead components.
▶ 1:26:00Sen. Brarochester: It has been critical to our communities because of the removal of lead, the reduction of p fast in drinking water and making water more affordable for families. I first question is for Mr. goulette. I understand many water systems in your association serve fewer than 10,000 people. Can you speak to how critical iija's infusion of funding is to small systems?
▶ 1:26:27Mr. Goulette: Thank you for that. Basically it helps with the geographic isolation of communities. That is one of the keys with the small rural systems. We have people physically going out and providing technical assistance. Once we get out there and we expose them to the iija capabilities and what they can do for the communities they have somebody they can lean on to follow up and put the programs in place for the small systems.
▶ 1:26:57Mr. Goulette: That is the key.
▶ 1:26:59Sen. Blunt Rochester: I heard you mention workforce. I think that is key as well. The idea of apprenticeships. I would love to follow up with you after the hearing specifically on that issue. I would like to switch to lead service lines. As some of my colleagues noted, the replacement of lead service lines are major projects the public may not be aware of. A lot of times people just here lead and pipes and they think of the pipes in their home.
▶ 1:27:30Sen. Blunt Rochester: These are pipes that are often deep underground, under the property of a person's home or roadway. It requires excavation of streets and land to replace. These are extensive projects. Mr. oswald, based on your experience with the state of michigan how fast iija funding helped accelerate the pace of lead service line replacement projects comparative pre-iija funding levels?
▶ 1:27:57Mr. Oswald: Iija funding has ministered mental. We would not have a ghost of a chance getting lead service lines out of the inventory without it. If we were relying on state funds and ratepayer funds. The cost of lead service line replacement is not cheap. We are talking about $10,000 per lead service line. It is incredibly expensive. Without the federal funds -- it is a one-time cost. They are out of the system.
▶ 1:28:29Mr. Oswald: We have to buckle down and get them out of the system and then moved to other things. The bill funding -- we will not get to our goal. In michigan, we want to be lead free by 2037. We will not get there without cooperation between the state, local, and the federal government.
▶ 1:28:45Sen. Blunt Rochester: I think that cooperation makes me think of the ultimate goal of healthy families as well. I will turn out to Ms. dreyfuss-wells. The national association of clean water agencies are advocates for water infrastructure dollars that support household struggling to make ends meet and avoid disconnections.
▶ 1:29:11Sen. Blunt Rochester: I was able to get a program to address water affordability authorized in the iija in the study I pushed for epa to complete. Nearly 19 million households have trouble affording clean water. For families experiencing poverty, being able to afford the nationwide average of $40 a month for water utilities can be a struggle.
▶ 1:29:36Sen. Blunt Rochester: Can you discuss how the inability for customers to pay for water bills actually hurts the ability of utilities to serve communities the rn? -- they are in?
▶ 1:29:48Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: The goal of any utility provider on wastewater, stormwater is to make sure you are bringing all of your customers along with you. Having the low income household water assistance program to help folks payy folks pay some bills is important. Also making sure your own utility has a focus on that customer service. Bringing your customers so they can apply for and receive the assistance that is available.
▶ 1:30:16Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells: It is something we are very focused on at the national association and focus on at the seward district.
▶ 1:30:22Sen. Blunt Rochester: I have other questions that I will submit for the record. I you back. -- yield back.
▶ 1:30:26Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator ricketts, are you good? I think we are all good. It is busy hill it is busy hiere on capitol hill. Some folks intended to come. With no further questions, I want to thank the witnesses in my colleagues for participation in today's hearing. I look forward to writing the bill coming up. I think we are starting early. That's the smart way to do it. We could not it without you helping us. I appreciate this.
▶ 1:30:58Chair Capito: Senators who wish to submit written questions for the record have until 5:00 p.m. On wednesday, may 14, to do so. There witnesses' responses are due back to the committee no later than 5:00 p.m. On wednesday, may 28. They will be submitted for the record. With that, this hearing is adjourned. Thank you all very much.