▶ 0:23:04Chair Cruz: We boast some of the most watched teams in the nation. The hearing about sports broadcasting is not a texas issue but a national one. In an era of deep partisan division, sports might be the most powerful cultural unifier that we have. Whether on the couch, or in the stands, americans come together to cheer, hope, and believe.
▶ 0:23:34Chair Cruz: Those millions of fans are asking a simple question, why does it seem to be getting harder and more expensive to just watch the game? For years,
▶ 0:24:59Chair Cruz: Does not necessarily work the next week, it is frustrating and such market destruction can it -- can be expected and it is a sign of innovation the key is to recognizing that and adjusting as we go.
▶ 0:25:21Chair Cruz: Importantly we should be cautious about saddling streaming services with outdated cable era regulations, something that might do more harm than good. The shift to streaming is not just frustrating, it can be expensive. Between league specific packages and games behind different pay walls it can cost hundreds of dollars a year for a hard-core fan wanting to watch all of the games.
▶ 0:25:47Chair Cruz: If fans want to spend their hard earned money on sports streaming, I do not blame them. I have shelled out a hell of a lot of money to see the houston rockets and astros and the texans and I continue to do so.
▶ 0:26:02Chair Cruz: But given that sports can get special treatment under the law, whether it be antitrust protection, nonprofit status or taxpayer financing of stadiums, what do the fans deserve in return? This is a particularly important question for this committee, which has jurisdiction over telecommunications and broadcasting.
▶ 0:26:28Chair Cruz: In 1961, congress enacted the sports broadcasting act to grant professional leagues antitrust immunity as it goes -- as it relates to broadcasting deals on perhaps teams. The structure allows leagues to negotiate from centralized offices in a synchronized manner without violating antitrust laws. The sba was intended to ensure that the needs of all sports fans were being met.
▶ 0:26:57Chair Cruz: It is important to regularly revisit and consider whether our laws like the sports broadcasting act are actually fulfilling their intended goals. And, if the leagues can show how the sba continues to benefit fans, it might be worth exploring whether to give a similar exemption to college sports, whose broadcasting rights have no antitrust protection.
▶ 0:27:26Chair Cruz: One growing concern is that the nfl has used its national exception in the sba to the frustration of college and high school football schedulers. For example, the sba explicitly excludes antitrust except -- protection for the nfl if broadcasting a game on friday night or saturday between mid-september and mid-december. That is to protect the interest of high school and college football and their fans, who are no doubt followers of the nfl.
▶ 0:27:57Chair Cruz: The nfl has tiptoed up to this rule, now putting a game on streaming on black friday afternoon, which used to be reserved on prominent football rivalries including in some years when I was a kid, texas versus texas a&m. There are millions of sports fans that like being able to follow high school and college and professional football without having to choose amongst them.
▶ 0:28:24Chair Cruz: That is partly why congress wrote the sba in the matter that it did. Professional sports holds the unique space in our culture. They wear our colors, carry our hopes, and represents our cities and towns. Sports teams might be run like businesses, but to the fans, they are sacred institutions.
▶ 0:28:49Chair Cruz: They are public trust and that is why taxpayers have been willing to shell out their money to build stadiums and arenas for pro football, baseball, basketball, and hockey. In exchange, fans are right to ask if these teams have a civic responsibility to their communities, which includes making games accessible.
▶ 0:29:14Chair Cruz: I look forward to hearing from each of the sports leagues today on how the fan experiences changing and how fans are benefiting from new broadcasting landscapes, and just as importantly, what responsibilities teams have to the public when taxpayer funding or special legal rights are granted. Streaming, it might well be the future, but it should not sideline the fans. I now turn to the ranking member for her opening statement.
▶ 0:29:44Sen. Cantwell: Thank you Mr. chairman and welcome to the witnesses this morning for this hearing. Before we start on this subject I want to express my strong opposition to the efforts by the trump administration to undermine critical resources for local broadcasting that is npr and pbs. And to three congressionally appointed board members of the non-protestant nonprofit corporation for public broadcasting.
▶ 0:30:13Sen. Cantwell: Every community deserves to have trusted access to local journalism when it comes to the rural areas where the programming is on these individual channels are valuable and quality programs for children emerges. We want every community including the rural and tribal areas to have access. The president's actions will hit the communities the hardest and deny the residents access to keep them safe.
▶ 0:30:42Sen. Cantwell: With this hearing today, obviously we need to find the sweet spot between consumer choice and consumer cost. I recognize the challenging issue that we are going to discuss this morning but I think Mr.
▶ 0:30:55Sen. Cantwell: Berger meyer got it right -- got it right in his testimony when he said consumers see that they finally broke the cable bundle model referring to the fact that with streaming and different distributions that you have more choice, only to watch it reform between their eyes. That is the subject of this hearing today.
▶ 0:31:19Sen. Cantwell: And this committee has had a long history, going back to our former chairman, senator john mccain where he advocated in many of those big cable broadcasts for all electrical -- a la carte choice we see that coming for us again in a different construct. According to the 2024 streaming numbers, they accounted for 39% of total tv usage in the united states, surpassing cable and broadcast television.
▶ 0:31:50Sen. Cantwell: This surge was coupled with a 20% drop in cable and satellite subscribers in the past 15 years. You might imagine the shift has created disruption including in the broadcast sports arena. I am grateful for our public knowledge witness to highlight some of these changes affecting consumers and particularly the fan experience.
▶ 0:32:13Sen. Cantwell: When I am home I get to turn on the tv and watch the seahawks organ saga basketball. With no subscription required. Streaming has put sports content increasingly behind a payroll -- pay wall and with a glowing number -- growing number of exclusivity agreements, consumers are facing an impossible choice, missing an impossible game or managing a confusing array of streaming
▶ 0:32:44Sen. Cantwell: Media subscriptions. So, we are here today to hear what this committee can do about this position. It is an interesting that the nfl signed a 10 year agreement in 2023 that makes amazon prime its prime partner for thursday night football, a deal worth $10 billion. Maker -- major league soccer's deal with apple brought serious increase in production viewership.
▶ 0:33:14Sen. Cantwell: All of these issues make us want to ask the questions about what content we used to get to watch for free that now we are paying for, and what in a world where streaming gets easier content, what are we doing to make that content more accessible? During the paris 2024 olympics, consumers were allowed access across the world for the first time to every event live or on-demand.
▶ 0:33:42Sen. Cantwell: Previously they had been prioritized or limited because of broadcast channels. And now consumers can watch any sport or preliminary about no matter how many other events are taking place at the same time. I like giving consumers choices. Netflix has the rights to the next women's world cut and the wnba 2020 foresees an attractive 54 million viewers. There you go for not paying enough attention to women's basketball in the past.
▶ 0:34:12Sen. Cantwell: 170% increase over the previous season. So, there is good news and that we can cover more. We can give consumers more choice. I would love to hear from our witnesses how we make sure we protect consumers while we do that. Thank you.
▶ 0:34:31Chair Cruz: Thank you. I would note the ranking member had some comments on the defunding of npr and as some might say, there is the rest of the story. Communications act requires public media entities like npr to strictly adhere to " objectivity and balance in all programs or series of programs on a controversial nature." unfortunately npr does not.
▶ 0:35:02Chair Cruz: Last congress I put out a detailed report about how npr took millions in earmarked donations from left-wing mega donors for very specific coverage. After receiving those donations, npr turned out content precise early mirroring -- precisely mirroring agendas. Likewise the independent televised -- television service paid for documentaries like " racist trees" to appear on pbs.
▶ 0:35:34Chair Cruz: The mpr ceo continues to deny that npr has a story selection problem, even when senior editors are resigning because the bias is overwhelming. Yet npr continues to have a dedicated news desk for climate and for race, both of which are propped up by liberal mega donors. This is the same woman who in january 2020, months before the death of george floyd tweeted " yes, the north, yes all of us.
▶ 0:36:06Chair Cruz: Yes, america. Yes our original on collective sin and unclaimed debt. Yes, reparations and yes on this day." I think it is more than time for accountability at npr. I will introduce the panel. First, the representatives from each league will talk about their strategies that they are pursuing and media rights negotiations as they aim to reach more fans.
▶ 0:36:33Chair Cruz: The first witness is kenny gerrish, the executive right -- vice president of media and development at major league baseball. The second witness is william koenig for the national basketball association. The third witness is david proper, the senior executive vice president of media and international strategy at the national hockey league.
▶ 0:36:58Chair Cruz: Our final witness is john berkemeyer, the legal director of public knowledge who will discuss these issues for the public benefit and fan perspective. You may begin.
▶ 0:37:11Mr. Gersh: Chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me here today to get mlb's perspective on how the media ecosystem is evolving. I served as executive vice president media and business veltman for major league baseball. I oversee their relationships with media rights holders and distribution partners as well as the direct to consumer product mlb. P -- mlb.tv.
▶ 0:37:41Mr. Gersh: There are three ways we make this -- the games available. National games, locally broadcast regular-season games and out of market regular-season games. Looking to the future as existing contracts expire we intend to partner with entities to make our games available to the broadest proper -- possible audience and to make our games available regardless of location.
▶ 0:38:06Mr. Gersh: First, the league distributes the jewel events consisting of the all-star game, postseason games and the all-star derby. And this consists of fewer than 10% of the 2000 430 regular-season games that are played each year. The most important events, the world series and all-star game along with a package of regular-season games are available on fox.
▶ 0:38:33Mr. Gersh: We also distribute regular-season games and the remainder of our postseason games on tbs and espn, two wildly available linear channels. Finally we work with new media entities including apple and roku to make a small season of regular-season games available. Each club retains the right to distribute their games within their own home television territory, with exception of a small amount of games chosen for national broadcast.
▶ 0:39:04Mr. Gersh: Predominantly they have distributed to fans and their local markets through the pay-tv ecosystem via regional sports and effort -- networks. This worked when most households subscribe to a pay-tv service. Over the last decade as more and more entertainment content migrated to streaming services, your household subscribed or continue to subscribe to pay-tv packages.
▶ 0:39:29Mr. Gersh: To make matters worse, as the number continues to two -- to decline, they have delegated to them to more expensive tears are not carry the games at all. As a result that has crumbled. The lack of availability on many paid tv systems with a need to subscribe to a higher tier to receive them created local blackouts.
▶ 0:39:54Mr. Gersh: Finally, the league itself makes all regular-season games of every club available outside of each home television territory via two subscription products. Extra innings via pay-tv providers sold to their customers and mlb.tv which is sold as a direct consumer product and is available on all internet connected devices. In 2024, he streamed over 14 billion minutes of live game action to our fans and we are on pace to surpass this in 2025.
▶ 0:40:26Mr. Gersh: The response has been overwhelmingly positive, however historic contractual arrangements prevented us from making them available in the home territories leading to additional frustrations with local blackouts. The combination of declining affordable access via pay-tv and the lack of access to home team games via mlb tv or other consumer offerings prevents obvious challenges and frustrations.
▶ 0:40:56Mr. Gersh: The commissioner identified expanding the reach as one of his top priorities. I am happy to report that thanks to the focus on the issue, more games are available than ever before. After the recent launch in washington by their own direct to consumer service, for the first time ever, 29 of the 30 clubs are accessible throughout their home television territory via direct to consumer offering, virtually eliminating local
▶ 0:41:27Mr. Gersh: Blackouts. We have been experimenting with other methods of making games available to fans. For the 2025 season, a majority of the clubs make a package of games available locally over free over the air broadcasts and the other roku channel. Thank you for inviting me to testify and I will be happy to answer questions that you might have.
▶ 0:41:49Chair Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 0:41:50Mr. Koenig: Good morning, chairman and ranking member and members of the committee. My name is william koenig and I am the president of global content for the nba and responsible for the nba wnba media arrangements. I have been responsible for the televised conduct -- content.
▶ 0:42:18Mr. Koenig: Thank you for allowing me to testify. I am pleased to testify about the new national media agreements with disney, nbc, universal and amazon. Starting next year our fans will have access to 300 nationally televised games, five times more on free over the air networks and every national game telecast and broadly distributed streaming services. It was not always that way.
▶ 0:42:46Mr. Koenig: In the 1960's the games were rarely seen on national television. When they were, they were relegated to segments on the wide world of sports rather than a standalone broadcast. Into the 1980's the finals games featuring magic johnson, kareem abdul-jabbar and julius irving were not aired live but on a taped delay at 11:30 p.m. After the local news. We have come a long way.
▶ 0:43:15Mr. Koenig: Part of that success is on a sustained focus of fans by adapting to technological advances involving media consumption patterns which have shifted dramatically. 10 years ago, more than 100 million U.S. households subscribe to cable, satellite and telco providers and 60 million to streaming services. Today the number of households subscribe to the tate -- to the paid tv providers has declined to 45 million.
▶ 0:43:45Mr. Koenig: That is one third of the households that have access to broadcast television and one third of the nearly 120 million that subscribe to a streaming service. Some of the leading services like amazon prime reached almost twice the number of households than any cable network. As a result, far more video is consumed through streaming services than paid television. This shift is particularly significant for the nba, which has the youngest average fan base.
▶ 0:44:15Mr. Koenig: These trends were top of mind as we negotiated our new national agreements. One of the top priorities was to ensure that we serve all fans. For those who watch the nba on traditional television, he sought to increase the number of games made available nationally on free broadcast television.
▶ 0:44:36Mr. Koenig: And for the fans who used streaming services and digital platforms we aimed to significantly increase the number of games made available through those platforms and to provide many unique benefits that digital distribution enables including personalized viewing experiences and a array of video and audio options. We have -- we believe we achieve the right balance. Under the new agreements we will have more telecasts than ever before, over 300 games.
▶ 0:45:06Mr. Koenig: An unprecedented number of regular-season games. 75, five times more than under the current deals and about two times the number of playoff games including every game of the nba finals airing on three over the air networks. There are number of fans that prefer digital platforms. Every national game telecast will be available on broadly distributed streaming services.
▶ 0:45:35Mr. Koenig: While there are some games exclusively on prime video, it is important to note that prime video is the most widely available service in the country and our analysis shows that 90% of our fans watch non-nba programming on prime video already. The wnba also entered into national deals with disney, nbc, universal, last year.
▶ 0:46:03Mr. Koenig: More of them will be available on major television networks and streaming services than any time in the league's history. From a revenue perspective they represent the largest media deal ever in women's sports. There is more to come because the wnba can do additional national views and achieve the greater exposure. The popularity of the wnba has grown exponentially in recent years and these arrangements will enable the growth to continue.
▶ 0:46:35Mr. Koenig: My written statement addresses two other topics. The measures we take to make the games easier to find and access and the steps our teams have taken to reach more fans with the local telecast. I do not have time to address the topics in my testimony today but I am happy to answer any questions on those topics. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:46:56Chair Cruz: Thank you. Mr. proper.
▶ 0:46:59Mr. Proper: Chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell and members of the committee. Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to appear on behalf of the national hockey league. I am the senior executive vice president of media and international strategy for the nhl. I have overseen media relationships worldwide for the past 15 years.
▶ 0:47:25Mr. Proper: We appreciate your leadership in examining the evolving sports media landscape and its impact on fans, leagues, teams and communities across the country. The nhl is a 107-year-old league with deep roots in north american communities and a strong global presence. In the last few years we have seen record attendance, increased viewership and substantial growth in youth participation.
▶ 0:47:51Mr. Proper: We are incredibly proud of this momentum and focused on the continuing responsibility to ensure our games are available in a manner that fulfills or sports viewing preferences. At the core of our strategy is a simple idea, meet the fans where they are. In the united states or national media ship partnerships allow us to deliver across a wide array of channels and formats.
▶ 0:48:16Mr. Proper: Live games air on espn, tnt, abc, and the nhl network and on top streaming platforms like espn plus, hulu, and max. Whether on a traditional box, mobile device or smart tv fans can access live hockey in more ways than before. We are committed to keeping fans connected to their hometown teams. Nhl games are shown regionally through local media partners.
▶ 0:48:44Mr. Proper: While the traditional model has faced recent disruption, we are working to support our teams and partners to respond to changes in the media landscape. They include restructuring existing and long-standing arrangements, entering into regional agreements with broadcast affiliates and/or launching digital and direct consumer products on subscription free basis and free or ad supported basis. The market is in a state of flux.
▶ 0:49:13Mr. Proper: Every player in this ecosystem, the leagues, teams, distributors and platforms are working to identify the best ways to serve fans in a rapidly changing environment. We believe it is important to allow the market to settle and stabilize so that the long-term solutions can emerge. As the business grows and expands the ultimate goal remains the same, ensuring that nhl content remains accessible and affordable for fans.
▶ 0:49:40Mr. Proper: With the fan viewing experience it is about more than platforms that also about production and content. In that we are embracing innovations including nontraditional formats serving specific demographic groups such as animated game broadcast for children, data casts first at focused fans and american sign language game productions.
▶ 0:50:03Mr. Proper: We are also focused on producing real-time data overlays and nongame programming content and personalized viewing options which reach broader audiences. We are committed to serving the full spectrum whether it is a child watching their first playoff game tonight, a lifelong fan catching a game on a commute or a member of the united states military looking for a taste of home. We want a game to be easy to find, easy to follow and easily available.
▶ 0:50:32Mr. Proper: At the same time we understand that the way that the fans access the game continues to evolve. Some rely on traditional systems while others are embracing new platforms. As the media landscape changes we remain focused on ensuring that our content is as accessible and engaging as possible wherever and however they choose to watch. For us, this is not a media strategy, but a mission shared by the league.
▶ 0:50:59Mr. Proper: After 107 years, we are proud to be building a future where hockey reaches more people and more meaningful ways. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you and I look forward to answering questions.
▶ 0:51:12Chair Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 0:51:15Mr. Bergmayer: Chairman, ranking member and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify. Streaming has benefited viewers. Millions of americans have discovered you can get content cheaply and more efficiently. With online video people can pick and choose services instead of being forced into bloated cable bundles and they can watch on devices inside and outside the home.
▶ 0:51:41Mr. Bergmayer: It gives content creators opportunities to reach creators -- to audiences not possible. It has made it easier for fans to watch out of market games and they can integrate sport specific features not possible on broadcast cable and it is easy to access ports beyond the leagues. It has not been so smooth. The proliferation of services and fragmentation of conflict -- of -- fermentation has resulted.
▶ 0:52:13Mr. Bergmayer: Many have felt like they have broken free. Having to manage accounts and download multiple app and track payments burdens viewers. Apps can be buggy and inconsistent and there is no way that a fan can find one.
▶ 0:52:31Mr. Bergmayer: To find a baseball team, they might need $10 per month for apple prime or youtube tv for $85 a month and mlb tv at $160 a month at minimum. And the coverage of sports channels might cause coverage to fall through the tracks. They might try to watch a game and find it is on a streaming service they do not use. Confusing blackout rules mean that games available in one market online might -- mean that they not be available in another.
▶ 0:53:03Mr. Bergmayer: Video quality might be poor due to inadequate broadband and streams might lag. Fan frustration is acute because many games once available on free broadcast tv are moving to paid streaming services. Many viewers watch tv through broadcast cable and satellite, especially older viewers with lifelong attachments to teams. The current market structure is not the consequence of the free market but dechert -- decades of exploitation.
▶ 0:53:32Mr. Bergmayer: Regional sports networks did not emerge from natural competition but to avoid major access. The collapse of this model is tied to the rise of streaming as viewers cut the cord and cable companies lose leverage and leagues can pitch streamers. I will give you a personal example. A cubs and phillies game was mistakenly blackout in D.C..
▶ 0:53:59Mr. Bergmayer: It was not on broadcast were tabled tv and should not have been blacked out. The in app customer service was unresponsive and they resolved it through social media by providing my ip address and zip code for manual override and this is not sustainable. Streaming is no longer an afterthought and we need to make sure that shifts benefit viewers with cheaper and more convenient options. Sports have outsized civics and cultural informants. They received taxpayer subsidies through special tax laws.
▶ 0:54:28Mr. Bergmayer: Major leagues enjoy special exemptions through antitrust laws. Publicly subsidized ports and team should clearly communicate to fans or game should be available and commit to making them available free of charge in the local market either -- either on broadcast or a free stream. There is no reason for public money to support private sports foundation without clear benefits.
▶ 0:54:54Mr. Bergmayer: Congress should consider the spot sports blackout acts which should have refunds for channels lost due to disputes. Easy and reportable access is crucial for the future of sports viewership. Young people no longer discover sports by flipping through channels so they need to be accessible in other ways. Policies prioritizing immediate profits through expensive deals and exclusive payrolls -- pay walls threaten to alienate fans and lose the next generation.
▶ 0:55:22Mr. Bergmayer: Everyone in the streaming market should focus on a good viewer experience in customer lock-in. They recognize that viewers mix-and-match services and facilitate this. Sports have the need for consistency and predictability. They should avoid abrupt changes to how people watch games overly complex licensee which fragment sports and past media deals that penalize local market viewers.
▶ 0:55:49Mr. Bergmayer: Practices that prioritize short-term games rather than long-term sustainability because people have many other things to watch. The mlb commissioner said "we hate blackouts as much as fans do and that ending local blackouts was business objective number one. He stated we need to be out of the business of blackouts telling people that we will -- we will watch games. This has not come to pass for any of the major sports and fans face an expensive patchwork of services.
▶ 0:56:17Mr. Bergmayer: Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I welcome questions.
▶ 0:56:20Chair Cruz: Thank you to each of the witnesses. Let me start with a question to the leagues. As I mentioned, congress passed the sports broadcasting act in 1961 to allow the leagues to negotiate deals on behalf of all teams as opposed to a team by team basis. Congress granted this antitrust exemption with the intention of benefiting sports fans.
▶ 0:56:46Chair Cruz: How does the sba actually benefit fans of your support, whether it is from greater access to games, improve revenue sharing to make for a more competitive balance or something else entirely?
▶ 0:57:00Mr. Gersh: Thank you. As you stated, the sba allows us to pool broadcast rights which have created a mark in sufficient practice which leads to more output.
▶ 0:57:15Mr. Gersh: One concrete example from major league baseball is the pooling that allow dust to create mlb advanced media where all of the clubs pooled their media rights which allowed us to revolutionize the experience and to be able to stream games at all the other internet to computers and mobile devices and then write to the tv.
▶ 0:57:37Mr. Gersh: I think that has been a big benefit of taking all of the resources together to create a product as opposed to each individual club having to manage apps across devices. That is a hard thing to do on a small basis. We ask -- we appreciate to do that.
▶ 0:57:59Mr. Gersh: While the sports leagues are comprised of 32 different teams that compete with each other on the field, it is important that we act as a single operating entity, which is why we are able to have the three of us here at the discussions. Thank you.
▶ 0:58:16Mr. Koenig: Mr. chairman, we think that we do honor the intention of the sports broadcasting act. And there is a public service in the way that we have organized our media rights.
▶ 0:58:33Mr. Koenig: As I mentioned, in our most recent national deals, which is a product of the sports broadcasting act was intended to do on a national basis we have licensed a ranking member of over the air telecasts, free. That benefits all teams in terms of exposure because the games are available in every market.
▶ 0:58:57Mr. Koenig: But also by being able to license games league wide on a national basis, the revenue was shared equally by each teams. The point you made about revenue sharing, all teams benefit from those national distribution games equally. Also, the echo what was said, we are able to innovate by doing things that require scale at league level.
▶ 0:59:27Mr. Koenig: Our league pass product, which is our out of market subscription service offers fans approximately 14 different feeds, different camera angles and languages and different stats for analytics, fantasy feeds, celebrity co-viewing experiences and those are only achievable by pulling and doing things on a collective basis.
▶ 0:59:56Mr. Proper: It is a great question and I would echo a lot of what was said. The one thing I would add an substance about what the sports broadcast act was intended to do which was to make games available to pham -- to fans with greater accessibility and at a lesser cost that is what it does. If you have 32 teams with 25 in the U.S. negotiating there deals on every television market you would have a complete rag mentation of their rights.
▶ 1:00:27Mr. Proper: If a fan wanted to watch all of the games would be buying from so many different packages the cost would be through the roof. What this has allowed us to do with the respective leagues is to provide the greatest access to fans and the most affordable way possible and I think that is the intention of the broadcast act where it has been successful.
▶ 1:00:46Chair Cruz: So the fcc's cable era regulatory -- set regulatory conditions including operating in a designated market area as well as indicated exclusively rules, which could lead to blackouts. Streaming platforms are not bound by these rules, but blackouts still take place on streaming platforms. Why is that the case?
▶ 1:01:13Chair Cruz: And do leagues specifically require streaming platforms to blackout games for out of market fans?
▶ 1:01:19Mr. Gersh: Thank you. I think the result of the question you are asking is the way the rights are split up between the league and the clubs at the current time. Each club has the right to distribute to their own television territory, so when they do their deals in the market the league cannot offer the games in their own market.
▶ 1:01:44Mr. Gersh: So for our streaming product we blackout in houston because the astros are exploiting the rights. As I mentioned, we also are at the moment where 29 of the clubs have their own direct to consumer service. You can pretty much in every territory, you want to watch the games via streaming you can buy that service.
▶ 1:02:07Mr. Gersh: And if you want to watch all the games out of market you can buy mlp.tv and they complement those -- each other and that covers the whole landscape which means less of a legislated issue and that is just the way our rights are currently divided.
▶ 1:02:22Mr. Koenig: Similarly with the nba, we have three different types of game distribution packages. We have the national package, local packages and out of market. And a fan anywhere in the country can access every game played by his or her favorite team or any other team in the league through a subscription to one or more of these packages. That is the business reality.
▶ 1:02:54Mr. Koenig: There is no mandate that games be blacked out, and national games for example are not blacked out. But a fan in any market in houston can buy the rockets game locally from the rsn operated from the astros and the rockets and they can watch the games of the other teams by buying the league pass and they can access the national games.
▶ 1:03:21Mr. Koenig: I would say on the local front, because of some of the issues facing cable with cord cutting and the repositioning of regional sports networks and carriage disputes, more and more of our teams. 21 of 29 domestic teams, have games of broadcast televisions.
▶ 1:03:41Mr. Koenig: That is the reverse of 1992 when the cable act was passed and there was a study about migration from broadcast to cable and I actually refer to that in the opening statement and there is a trend. This season, 570 games on broadcast television. The most in 20 years. We are concerned with accessibility.
▶ 1:04:03Mr. Koenig: Any fan can subscribe to services or get them for free in the case of the local national telecast for any game that he or she wants.
▶ 1:04:12Mr. Proper: The nhl is similarly set up. We have local and national rights and out of market rights. The local rights in terms of being blacked out is structured exactly the same. If you live in the local market you get the benefit of getting your teams without having to buy the out of market package. You get that benefit usually depending on circumstance and most of the games are available on broadcast or major cable television.
▶ 1:04:44Mr. Proper: That being said, if I am playing completely candid as was said about commissioner manford, everyone is looking at the future of the models. They are in a state of flux and whether streaming results in blackouts happening or not happening in the future is something that might be addressed over the next five to 10 years. It is at this point the current model that has worked well. As we continue to have flux, we will have to continue to evaluate.
▶ 1:05:11Chair Cruz: Senator klobuchar.
▶ 1:05:14Sen. Klobuchar: , thank you for putting together this hearing. As some of you know, my dad was a sports writer and general columnist and he wrote 23 books including the authorized biography of fran tarkington. He wrote one in 1977 that I will never forget and that is "will the vikings ever win the super bowl?" that was the name of it. I care a lot about sports.
▶ 1:05:41Chair Cruz: And the answer is?
▶ 1:05:44Sen. Klobuchar: Of course they will, senator cruz. I care a lot about sports and how sports brings us together in terms of our local communities. It made a huge difference for our city and for the city of minneapolis in the last few years after some difficult times. So, I just want to start with the local broadcasting issue.
▶ 1:06:09Sen. Klobuchar: And I have learned that I will get all of the streaming down and I will get the timberwolves tonight whenever they are on. I do want to continue to have strong local broadcasting for many reasons because it brings our communities together. And, how do you plan and I guess I would start with you since you have the wherewithal to go to college in minnesota. How do you plan on continuing to leverage local broadcasting to reach nhl fans like wilde's fans?
▶ 1:06:41Mr. Gersh: Thank you --
▶ 1:06:43Mr. Proper: Thank you for acknowledging the minnesota roots. In the nhl we are currently still operating under the rsn system in many markets. That is the cable system. Regional sports networks. As everyone has talked about they are going to a D.C. model that complements the cable distribution.
▶ 1:07:08Mr. Proper: In addition the teams have looked carefully on broadcast and a number of teams are on full broadcast net -- networks and other teams we have one team that has gone on a completely free digital distribution. So everybody can get it for free with internet access. And everybody has some form of direct to consumer model which has a pay model that is available over the internet.
▶ 1:07:38Mr. Proper: What we have done is through the various markets attempted to test and move forward with every different type of model that exists. We expect that we will get a better sense of what the future holds and what works as we move forward. We have teams in every market doing different things as we try to figure out what the future will be.
▶ 1:07:59Mr. Proper: What I can tell you is hopefully what brings you comfort is that the most important thing to any of the leagues which is growth, focused on accessibility and affordability.
▶ 1:08:08Sen. Klobuchar: Same question.
▶ 1:08:10Mr. Gersh: Thank you. That is a great question. We are very focused on making sure that all of the fans can watch their games and as we have talked about, the paid tv industry and the rsn's that have traditionally been the way that fans have watch the local games have been suffering massive disruption. We saw that coming and we wanted to make sure that the fans never were penalized for what was going on in the marketplace.
▶ 1:08:41Mr. Gersh: We built up the infrastructure ourselves to produce and it -- and distribute games. For the twins, when there rsn had financial difficulties and they were in bankruptcy.
▶ 1:08:52Sen. Klobuchar: I remember the whole thing.
▶ 1:08:54Mr. Gersh: So, we took over the production and distribution and we follow a three-pronged strategy which is to get as much distribution as we can from the paid tv industry so those games are now on comcast and directv. We distribute a package of those 10 games over the air so fans can watch some games if they do not want to subscribe to anything.
▶ 1:09:21Mr. Gersh: It gives fans the promotional ability to see which games will beyond and in the direction -- the direct to consumer package.
▶ 1:09:30Sen. Klobuchar: I will ask you that question in writing, because I did want to ask you an follow-up on local issues. I think it is important. Last july as you noted, the wnba signed a historic deal. $2.2 billion, although we know that the men's deal is $76 billion. And you noted that there could be add-ons for more.
▶ 1:09:56Sen. Klobuchar: Could you talk about that, just because I think they are such a fast-moving, popular sport. Putting it in one slice of time for the women seems like this is historic. And what was it like a few years ago, this changeover in valuation?
▶ 1:10:14Mr. Koenig: The market, just like the rise in the popularity exploded in the last couple of years. You are right. What I would say is and we are mindful of the growing popularity of the wnba. In the three deals we did last year, even though they were record numbers in terms of finances, we put in certain provisions to provide for upside in those deals.
▶ 1:10:42Mr. Koenig: For example, there is a revenue sharing component, with advertising revenues exceeding a certain level in each of the deals, the wnba benefits incrementally in a provision that after three years, essentially a reset and a look at the value because they are long-term. And the league is continuing to take off and they would like another chance to negotiate.
▶ 1:11:10Mr. Koenig: A third thing just to answer your question, we have other deals that we can do with other broadcasters and --
▶ 1:11:17Sen. Klobuchar: And the local. I hope you continue that. I am going to put this on the record because I know we are out of time. But for you, I think it is important to focus on, first of all that fans can get their sports, but when you look at the cost, the nfl sunday ticket, youtube, espn plus, amazon prime video and peacock, a single
▶ 1:11:48Sen. Klobuchar: Season, $850 which is really hard when it used to be on local broadcast. And also some of the disney, warner, fox sports deal that was called off due to anti-sport -- antitrust concerns. We want fans to stream sports but we want to make sure that consumers then if it from low prices and innovation comes from competition. I look forward to getting your answers in writing. Thank you.
▶ 1:12:14Chair Cruz: Senator blackburn.
▶ 1:12:18Sen. Blackburn: Thank you for being here. In tennessee, we love our sports teams also. And, I want to come to you because through the years, I have looked at the nba's relationship with oppressive regimes around the globe, and of course you all have had a cozy relationship with the ccp. And we know how they sensor.
▶ 1:12:48Sen. Blackburn: And going back to 2019 with the daryl morey's suite -- darrell maurice tweet in support of the hong kong freedom fighters and that resulted in a suspension of the nba broadcast in their state run media channels. In recent years it looks like you have patched that relationship up. Which means that there had to be some sort of deal that was there. And it must have been quite a deal.
▶ 1:13:19Sen. Blackburn: Since we are talking about broadcast rights and what they are worth. Tell me, what the broadcast rights in china are worth? And, how much nba owners have invested in china.
▶ 1:13:35Mr. Koenig: Thank you, senator. The nba does have a very long history of distributing our games and content in china for more than 30 years.
▶ 1:13:53Sen. Blackburn: I am not asking about the length of time in china. I am asking what are the media rights worth. You are the president of global content and media distribution. So what are those rights worth, and how much have the nba owners invested in china?
▶ 1:14:14Mr. Koenig: The nba does not comment publicly on the financial terms of our relationships in the U.S. or abroad, but I can comment that we were accurate in 20.
▶ 1:14:38Sen. Blackburn: You had to cut a deal.
▶ 1:14:40Mr. Koenig: We did not cut a deal. Games were taken off of cctv. Games continued to air on tencent, their other distribution networks in china. And then after more than a year --
▶ 1:14:55Sen. Blackburn: So did you make any concessions on free speech?
▶ 1:14:58Mr. Koenig: To the contrary.
▶ 1:15:00Sen. Blackburn: None at all? Because the estimates are that these media rights are worth hundreds of millions of dollars to you all and that nba team owners have invested as much as $10 billion. And I think some clarity around those numbers would be important.
▶ 1:15:25Sen. Blackburn: The other thing that we look at is human rights, and we look at how the nba has punished players who have spoken out against human rights abusers in china. One is specifically.
▶ 1:15:43Sen. Blackburn: So can you commit to me that in every deal the nba makes around the globe, that the league is upholding human rights, and that the league is upholding freedom of speech? And they are upholding the american ideals of freedom, can you make that commitment?
▶ 1:16:05Sen. Blackburn: >> senator, I can certainly confirm that one of the nba's most important values is freedom of speech. In fact, the example you cited, he was not discipline or censored in any way in light of the comments that he made.
▶ 1:16:25Sen. Blackburn: And you are right, that that, may have led to a lack of coverage by cctv and other things, but we very much value freedom of speech and that is something that we can confirm and it is something --
▶ 1:16:41Sen. Blackburn: What about your actions in rwanda?
▶ 1:16:46Mr. Koenig: Um --
▶ 1:16:49Sen. Blackburn: You are the global president, you ought to have an answer on that one. Mr. proper, let me come to you if you don't mind. One of the things that we are concerned about, and senator klobuchar touched on this, is pirated broadcasts that are available and the predators are mighty popular in tennessee. People love going to those games.
▶ 1:17:20Sen. Blackburn: And as we were looking at this, I think it is $28 billion in potential revenue lost that is there from pirated. So tell me what you are doing to combat the rise of these illegal sports streaming, because the players aren't benefiting from that.
▶ 1:17:40Mr. Proper: It's a great question and something that everybody should obviously know about. The fact of the matter is we have an outside service that helps us to track pirated broadcasts. We work with our broadcast partners, we've gotten orders of court that have allowed us in certain markets to stop these pirated broadcasts, but at the end of the day many of them come from foreign jurisdictions. They are what we effectually refer to as wacko mole.
▶ 1:18:10Mr. Proper: You knock one down, tomorrow will pop up. You can rest assured -- two more will pop up. You can rest assured that we will do everything available to us because it is a definite drag on our industry.
▶ 1:18:23Sen. Blackburn: Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:18:27Chair Cruz: Senator lujan?
▶ 1:18:31Senator Lujan: Thank you very much. Thank you for being here. I recognize this hearing was convened to talk about sports broadcasting and brought the experts together today.
▶ 1:18:49Senator Lujan: However, I want to ask some specific questions about issue that is currently going on and I just simply cannot ignore what president trump's unlawful executive order that attends to kneecap the corporation for public broadcasting and its funding of pbs and npr. Let me be clear, the president's actions show callous disregard for the law. Congress passed a law in 19 67 establishing the corporation for public broadcasting is independent.
▶ 1:19:19Senator Lujan: Cpb is a nonprofit private corporation. Congress formed the two isolated from government control. Board members are not officers of the united states. Board members and their decisions cannot be controlled by the government. Board member's do not serve at the pleasure of the president. Cpd provides critical operational support for newly 1500 locally owned and operated public television and radio stations that reach virtually every household in the county.
▶ 1:19:50Senator Lujan: In 2024 they provided nearly $6 million in total support to three public tv stations and 12 public stations in mexico alone. Yet despite all the facts the president has plowed ahead with his attacks on the corporation. As a result he and his ministration of threatened access to local news, children's educational programming and emergency alerts that broadcasters provide to communities. As you heard, I'm concerned about the attack on public media.
▶ 1:20:20Senator Lujan: Can you explain why npr and pbs are important? >> yes, thanks for the question. Of course as we discussed today, people should be able to access their local teams. Commercial free children's programming and emergency alerts. Public broadcasting provides this and cpd funding is important for stations in rural areas in particular.
▶ 1:20:43Senator Lujan: These areas typically have less broadband coverage than households and people can tune into the radio in places where there is no wireless coverage at all. Especially as commercial stations are often struggling, local dollars shipped to online platforms like facebook and it really underscore the importance of other models to provide the kind of information that these stations provide.
▶ 1:21:04Sen. Lujan: If congress allows this to happen are people going to have the same access to local news, children's programming and emergency alerts? >> I think not. There will be many news deserts if these stations shut down.
▶ 1:21:17Sen. Lujan: The public radio network reaches about 99% of the american population. This makes it a critical backbone for the nation's emergency alert system. The majority public radio stations in new mexico received cpb grants and support 30%-50% of their budgets. Some of these are also tribal stations and services to reach isolated tribal communities back home.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Lujan: One of the questions I have here, if the trump initiation is successful in cutting funding to public stations, will these stations exist, and I would note that study after study should new mexico and alaska have something in common in this particular space with the number of stations that we benefit from . The investments made by these entities, we just had some of the most horrific fires in new mexico history.
▶ 1:22:08Sen. Lujan: It was a local station it was able to partner with some of these, and radio station to make sure am radio is going to stay in every car in america as well because it was an am radio morning the citizen then did to move. Signals were down, no electricity, phones were not working. The only thing that work with these repeaters and what was happening with a.m. As well. What type of stability will happen if all this goes away?
▶ 1:22:34Sen. Lujan: >> the coverage of radio is hard to beat and although funding for public media is only about 0.1% of federal spending for particular stations in rural areas, it is a significant portion of their budget.
▶ 1:22:48Sen. Lujan: So as mccauley's are looking to identify funding streaks for moving and dancing president trump's tax policy, my question comes back to the major league teams in america. We are having this discussion about how constituents across the country can get access to gains. With more and more deals being put together for streaming, for people to be able to get the streams. There's tax policy if I'm not mistaken that all of you benefit from in the united states. My correct in that?
▶ 1:23:18Mr. Gersh: I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to.
▶ 1:23:21Sen. Lujan: Mr. koenig:
▶ 1:23:23Sen. Lujan: Mr. koenig?
▶ 1:23:24Mr. Koenig: Neither am I.
▶ 1:23:26Mr. Proper: I am also not.
▶ 1:23:28Sen. Lujan: Such my colleagues, they don't even know the tax deferment policy that they get advantage from when they are investing in stadiums with revenue streams for the leagues. There might be another pay form that you walk and find that eta -- there are what this is. If that tax policy is going to continue, people should be able to get to watch games. My constituents and I love our favorite teams and love enjoying them and watching teams.
▶ 1:23:56Sen. Lujan: I have a buddy now who is collecting cards at an incredible pace and he's opened up a new business because of the success of players and the support of them with their marketing and things of that nature. I'm surprised you are not familiar with that. I will do my due diligence to be able to get each of you a report from the congressional research service that explained the tax policy that benefits major-league sporting teams in america. I yield, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:24:20Chair Cruz: Senator schmitt.
▶ 1:24:23Senator Schmitt: Am glad we are having this hearing. So anything that we talk about in washington, back home, nobody cares about. But this one actually people do care about a lot because they want to be able to watch their favorite teams and I'm going to probably limit my questions to Mr. gersh. It's too soon to talk about the nhl.
▶ 1:24:54Senator Schmitt: So maybe another day. But as we were talking before hand, as a cardinals fan and somebody who probably has way too much emotional reaction to the april day game, this is what I do. I mean, I can't live in the political all the time, so baseball, the cardinals is ultimately my great distraction and we've been really lucky on the radio side.
▶ 1:25:23Chair Cruz: And if you are looking to recruit, he swings a bat very well. >> my time has passed I believe. But harry carey, I still have the nlb app just listening to the radio games when I am barbecuing for my family outside. Is the cadence of the summer, it is the rhythm of the game. It is america's pastime. It is almost a sort of religion passed down from one generation to the next.
▶ 1:25:54Chair Cruz: And I am also, I'm 49 so I am a gen x-er. I feel like I've seen all of the phases of all of this. When I was a kid in the 80's, you can listen on the radio but the only game you could maybe pick up with the game of the week with vin scully broadcasting those games. And there was a time with the thinking with the more games you broadcast, maybe people wouldn't actually go attend the games. And of course that wasn't true.
▶ 1:26:24Chair Cruz: You get into the regional sports networks, espn starts broadcasting more games. St. Louis and kansas city have some of the highest ratings from the regional sports networks existed. And now we are in this new phase and I am someone that would have the nlb -- mlb app for radio. Only during baseball season but I actually by the cable subscription which was really expensive just to see the cardinals games.
▶ 1:26:53Chair Cruz: And we gravitated, at first I had sling, then you do tv. So it has been a journey for a lot of fans. So I guess in the time that we have remaining I just wanted to ask you where is all of this headed? Because people want to see the games. The demise of the original sports networks we've got now, I am on amazon I can get the cardinals games on amazon. This is the first year you can do that with the prime package.
▶ 1:27:24Chair Cruz: Are we headed to a place where the teams have their own platforms, or maybe that doesn't work because you don't have the scale, but where is this all headed, because it feels like especially for baseball, it's been a little bit in flux the last couple of years. This is the question I get a lot, what is going on with all of this stuff? In your view, where is this headed?
▶ 1:27:48Mr. Gersh: First of all, thank you for your fandom and your continued support, we certainly appreciate that. We are at this transitory time in the media ecosystem, the point now where the cardinals like many other clubs are on the regional sports network. At least there now is a direct to consumer service which you can buy directly from them or through amazon prime.
▶ 1:28:12Mr. Gersh: Where this is going is a great question, and I think as the commissioner has stated, he is looking to get to a more national product. I think we would like to see more of their games available more broadly, more nationally. And then kind of one place where fans know to go to watch their games that aren't being broadcast nationally. So as we look to the next couple of years, after the 28th season, that is what we are looking to achieve.
▶ 1:28:41Mr. Gersh: A place where it is a national streaming package or mlb network becomes the home of local baseball. There is one place you go to know where your games are that are being broadcast nationally. >> so that would look something like the mlb app, you subscribed and then everyone has access to their home market games. I guess it wouldn't matter. If you are traveling to D.C., I'm not limited by the potential blackout. There is a one-stop shop that nlb actually owns.
▶ 1:29:12Mr. Gersh: I'm not trying to ask you to get too far ahead, I'm just curious.
▶ 1:29:17Mr. Gersh: That is certainly one potential outcome. It may be that we partner with amazon or apple or youtube, and they become the home of baseball, I think the idea is to make it simpler for fans. We do understand the frustration and we take that very seriously. Nothing is more important to weston making sure fans know exactly where to go to watch.
▶ 1:29:41Sen. Schmitt: So I think every sports or of translating the bit differently. Football, it works really well. Hockey I would argue in person. A playoff hockey gam in person is so fast. Sometimes it doesn't translate on tv, but when you are there it is incredible. Baseball is kind of this middleground. With younger people now with the scrolling and how short youtube clips and all this stuff, baseball is a longer form game.
▶ 1:30:11Sen. Schmitt: I'm just curious, how does baseball view appealing to younger viewers, knowing that their habits are a little different?
▶ 1:30:19Mr. Gersh: That's a lot of the changes made, the institution of the pitch clock and the restriction on the shift, more action. I think we seen the result of that. Ratings have been up. I actually think our general fan ages younger than we are given credit for because we moved a lot more pain digital. It got a little bit lost in the ratings.
▶ 1:30:45Mr. Gersh: But we are definitely focused on that and I think we've made a lot of games of the past years that are now paying dividends.
▶ 1:30:55Sen. Schmitt: Thank you. Ranking member cantwell. >> thank you. Thank you to the witnesses. I'm just trying to follow-up on that last point, particularly about the consumer experience and like you just mentioned. Are you saying that you guys tracked and have metrics and input from consumers?
▶ 1:31:19Mr. Gersh: I don't know if it is specific metrics or data, but it is certainly something we hear. If the game they are looking to watch is in their local market and they get blacked out, we hear about that. Those are things we are trying to address. >> when you negotiate media rights are you negotiating broadcast and streaming rights?
▶ 1:31:41Mr. Gersh: Yes. >> by doing that you are limiting competition right there. I mean, the old model, broadcasting rights, everybody moved in and then you would decide. In the broadcast model you were just renting my eyeballs, that is all. But you can cost me anything. So you had a competition. Everybody bid, you decided what you wanted and then I got to watch it for free, although I had to watch some commercials.
▶ 1:32:11Mr. Gersh: Now because you negotiate and you limit the streaming rights, you are limiting the competition, and you are creating the cost to the consumer. And I would say it would be interesting if you were helping local media out by keeping broadcast rights with local media so that the teams could negotiate with local syndicate and broadcasters, but in reality what you're are doing is basically you are using your marketability that we gave you on antitrust to leverage those
▶ 1:32:43Mr. Gersh: Broadcast rights and limit the streaming media rights which could provide true competition to you. So that is why you are hearing from everybody here. Everybody here has been through this experience. I bet you everything a member of this committee has been through this experience where they thought they were going to get something and they couldn't get it.
▶ 1:33:02Mr. Gersh: So the question is whether we should continue to give you this antitrust exception if in fact you are going to use your market power on broadcast to also limit market competition on streaming and not have the old model of broadcast competition anyway. So if you don't have the broadcast competition, now you have this new streaming tool and you're basically clobbering the consumer, making everything more expensive and I bet you don't have data. So you get into a fight with a local broadcaster and then you blackout a bunch of people and they are also mad about that.
▶ 1:33:34Mr. Gersh: But no, you're not collecting data, you are collecting checks. You collecting revenue. Am I saying this correctly about the lack of competition and why we should reconsider this in the context? >> I can agree with you. In return for the various public benefits that leagues and teams receive, there should be an obligation to make sure that the games are widely accessible and competitive. >> I don't think they police any of this.
▶ 1:34:03Mr. Gersh: So then because you control both the streaming and the broadcast rights, then you sell something to somebody. They do a horrible job of saying whether they wouldn't have the content. They advertise that they have the content, and you signed up for six months of the subscription. How many people have time to get out of that? You go on and they don't really have the game. There is just so much happening here.
▶ 1:34:27Mr. Gersh: So what is your suggestion, what should we do now to help consumers out since we have too much control here and not enough focus on the consumer? Most people would say I want everybody to watch this stuff because I believe in the brand. I'm pretty sure the mariners would want everybody to watch. They like their players and they would like people to see them.
▶ 1:34:52Mr. Gersh: >> I tend to think that the best balance is to think about the difference between the local team, the community, and the out of market national-type games. I think it is a complete reasonable request of policymakers at the state, local and federal level to say in exchange for public support you get, in exchange for the unique market characteristic that teams have that make them very different from other entertainment products that they work to make sure that games in the local market are available free of charge in some way like
▶ 1:35:23Mr. Gersh: They were for decades. >> so you would go that route, you think that is the most critical aspect of this. >> taking care of the local fans in local markets. >> that is music to my ears because I care about local broadcasting. I think the demise of local broadcasting is a big problem in the united states of america and you have to have community, and what better way to build community then around a sports team?
▶ 1:35:49Mr. Gersh: What about this issue antitrust as it relates to the fact that these guys, really they strangled it for a long time because they wanted to control it, and at the behest of trying to keep cable and keep broadcast, but now you are back today are just not doing an effective job of the people they sell the streaming rights or enable the streaming rights to, and thereby the consumer gets clobbered with a bunch of nonsense where they can't access what they really wanted? So what do you do about that?
▶ 1:36:17Mr. Gersh: >> I think there are reasons why you want to have there be some coordination with media rights for leagues so that does make sense. But it can't just be for free. It needs to be in exchange for clear, public benefit. And I think that benefit would be a billability of games and local markets for free and working to reduce the confusion and fragmentation of games to keep the cost down more.
▶ 1:36:42Mr. Gersh: >> I'm thinking about out-of-state, out of market games, where somebody wants to follow. To me, that is a little different and I see my time has expired. But if you could help us for the record on this, I think what we are -- there's just too much here where they can just think about the dollars instead of thinking about the true consumer experience.
▶ 1:37:10Mr. Gersh: So I like your suggestion on local broadcasting but I still think you need something on that streaming media side that says we have a little bit more responsibility to the consumer to make sure that the consumer experience isn't hijacked behind six months of a larger subscription that may or may not be related. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:37:32Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator moreno.
▶ 1:37:37Senator Moreno: A question to the three legal representatives, what are your metrics? You have to have metrics. You talked about that a little bit in your testimony. What are your metrics in terms of how you see the amount of games accessible, is that something that you track in terms of being able to make decisions as to what you are doing in terms of -- obviously does not really free games, to be clear.
▶ 1:38:06Senator Moreno: There's games that you viewed with advertising to pay the privilege, but I am curious what your metrics are.
▶ 1:38:15Mr. Gersh: If I understand your question were talking about the metrics on the availability of the games. I think we look at that as what percentage of the fans and home television territory can watch the games that are available? Historically, they have been on page tv -- paid tv-distributor platforms. Less and less people have been planning on for pte on the systems, they think either higher tier or not carry at all.
▶ 1:38:47Mr. Gersh: So we've been concerned that we've had in some cases only 35% of the fans in our territory could get access to those games. So that is why we took a really strong look at the past couple of years to make the games more accessible, where we now have direct to consumer and offerings available in 29 territories. For us, that covers a whole territory. For $20 month -- >> I'm talking about that you don't have to pay a subscription, that you can watch the game with ads.
▶ 1:39:17Mr. Gersh: What is your current metrics, has that gone down or up? Accessibility increase or decrease?
▶ 1:39:24Mr. Gersh: Since I've been involved, all of the games have been on page tv. There were no freely available broadcasting's or major league baseball. So it has increased and now a majority of our teams do make at least a package of the games available, whether it is 10 or 20 games, they make those available. At the national level, we have our world series and our biggest events are fox broadcasting, which is a freely available channel.
▶ 1:39:51Mr. Gersh: We've been experimenting with new ways to make games for free so I partnership with roku, the games on sunday morning are freely available.
▶ 1:39:59Sen. Moreno: So x percentage of games are available without paying prescriptions, you are trying to get that number to increase? >> we do not have a particular metric. >> yes, the ability of the of games on television is very important to us.
▶ 1:40:24Sen. Moreno: On a national level, we have 75 regular-season games and depending on how long the playoff series goes on, more games available on free broadcast television, which is the most in nba history and maybe the history of the nfl. Something that is a priority in our negotiations.
▶ 1:40:52Sen. Moreno: Three years ago, there was one team that puts games out over their television, freakier television. This past year we have 21 teams with at least some number of games available on television. A total of 570 games on television locally, the most in 20 years. >> so you are saying that number should go up. >> we totally agree with you.
▶ 1:41:21Sen. Moreno: We are looking very extensively at how we can increase over the years. The national basis, that is a bit of a partnership where we have relationships with abc, for example. However many games we can get on. But at the local level it has really increased dramatically. What we have seen is we now have three teams who all of their games are available over the air locally. We have others were very much exploring that model and I think others that will adopt it.
▶ 1:41:52Sen. Moreno: We also have teams adopting or trying the market of making it available for free on the internet, so when they can't necessarily get over the air coverage, we try to make every game free on the internet which is a unique model. >> in my short time remaining I would just ask the three of you to respond. It seems that technology this is a solvable problem.
▶ 1:42:17Sen. Moreno: If I'm signed up for a streaming service, I used some sort of identity validation of who I am, why would you penalize that person and not just make it so that you sign up in one place with that same potential and allows you to sign up in all of them and allow -- for example, amazon know that I am a max subscriber, so they don't charge me for max also.
▶ 1:42:44Sen. Moreno: Why don't you look at solutions like that because it seems to me for you, you want to make this easier for your fans. >> we agree with that. In fact, if you buy nlb.tv, you can watch it on a platform. >> but at the local piece. Each automatically carry across all platforms in every way possible. >> I agree, it is just an issue of rights and getting the other side to do that.
▶ 1:43:10Sen. Moreno: At nlb, we've integrated with espn and fox and all eric illustrators so people can watch if they subscribe. 100% agree with that. >> I'm over time, but let me just say this. You guys solving this problem could make you have more available, easier and less friction will be dramatically less painful than if this institution decides to give you rules and guardrails. So option one, you solve it and it is great.
▶ 1:43:42Sen. Moreno: Option b, not so great.
▶ 1:43:47Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator rosen.
▶ 1:43:53Senator Rosen: I want to thank ranking member cantwell and I am really pleased you are holding this hearing on such an important and emerging issue. Because my state of nevada, we have las vegas and in las vegas, the entertainment capital of the world, we are home to all-star music performances, live shows and international events. Over the past several years we started to become the sports capital of the world as well from hosting major ufc fight to being home of the formula one las vegas grand prix.
▶ 1:44:23Senator Rosen: And we see major league sports become a bigger and bigger part of the biggest sports and entertainment scene as well. In fact our first major professional sports team, the las vegas golden knights established less than a decade ago, I am proud to say I think tonight is the first game of around two in the playoffs. I was traveling yesterday, so I think it is tonight. Anyway, they are in the playoffs, we are so proud of them.
▶ 1:44:51Senator Rosen: They are beloved in las vegas, they are a tremendous success enjoying their first season in the nhl, unprecedented for an expansion team. Her las vegas aces got back to back w nba championships in 2023. We added the nfl team when the raiders open a brand-new state-of-the-art stadium in 2020 and last year we hosted a fantastic super bowl for the first time and stop we have the a's bringing major league baseball to the great state of nevada in 2028.
▶ 1:45:24Senator Rosen: Someday soon I am hoping will add an nba team as well but just as nevada sports environment is changing how fans watch their team is changing. So the golden knights, they've been doing a lot of innovation. Over the past two nhl season thanks to an agreement between the golden knights, fans across nevada are able to watch them free of charge over the air on local broadcast television.
▶ 1:45:49Senator Rosen: They continue to innovate, creating a new experience called knighttime where fans can access all games live on their devices. So Mr. proper, can you speak to have the nhl view the ability of teams to make these types of deals and to innovate with new ways to respond to fan demands and how these flexibilities really just benefit the fan experience, especially the local fan base?
▶ 1:46:12Mr. Proper: Absolutely, and great point, senator rosen. We've been very, very positive working with our clubs to find models in the vaguest knights model is an absolutely outstanding one for fans across the board. As you mentioned, every game is over the air for free. Other than the national games. You also have the ability to buy the package if you want to buy it as a digital product. But what it has allowed them to do is grow the business and grow what they are trying to do, grow their fan base.
▶ 1:46:45Mr. Proper: What we see in their first year switching from that model they have a 700% increase in ratings. What they have been able to do in terms of growing the fan base particularly for a relatively new team has been off the charts with what we are trying to accomplish with everyone at our teams. So what we see is this model has been completely vindicated as both affordable for fans, greater accessibility and ultimately growing fan base for the fans which has been their primary goal.
▶ 1:47:12Sen. Rosen: It's been tremendous for las vegas and for them. I want to talk about innovation in other leaks. Mr. gersh and Mr. koenig, I want to give you the opportunity as well. How do the nlb and nba tend to meet the moment, and are they new model that you could point to for creativity and delivering to consumer demands?
▶ 1:47:39Mr. Koenig: An example of the knights and the aces seems to be a trend.
▶ 1:47:46Sen. Rosen: We love air teams.
▶ 1:47:48Mr. Koenig: As well you should. It is a trend that we see more and more in this time of disruption in the cable universe. More and more teens as I mentioned have returned to broadcast television. It is kind of a hybrid approach for the people who watch through traditional television more games on free, over the air stations is certainly a benefit.
▶ 1:48:14Mr. Koenig: And for the people who are digital natives, having every game also available for the streaming platforms, which is something that the wnba and the nba teams are increasingly doing, all but one of our teams has all of their games available on the streaming platform. We find that that latter enables us to do a couple of things.
▶ 1:48:38Mr. Koenig: It allows us to provide a lot more choice in personalization in different audio and video feeds, fantasy, things like that. But what it also enables us to do, which is something we discussed with other senators, is provide access and discoverability in a world that is more and more fragmented and digital. The w nba app can be the entry point.
▶ 1:49:08Mr. Koenig: You may not know which channel the aces are on for a national game but if you go to the wnba and, you will be able to click right on the game with some digital platform and be able to access the game. And we are going to do that even beyond nba and wnba. We are going to do that through a number of other partners and team relationships. You might be able to order food. You will have an opportunity to click from that food delivery at directly to a game telecast.
▶ 1:49:40Mr. Koenig: We are working all this out to make it because one of the issues that this committee rightfully focused on and calling this hearing is fragmentation. We think there are a lot of ways to deal with that particularly through digital distribution.
▶ 1:49:53Sen. Rosen: I'm over my time but if you go quickly, we don't want to leave out baseball.
▶ 1:49:57Mr. Gersh: I agree with what but my colleagues have said. With the athletics in particular, the other ways we are getting option out direct to consumer services of directly available right on nlb.tv this year, and we also let nbc put it on peacock. Just continuing to find ways to give fans more often to watch the games.
▶ 1:50:26Chair Cruz: I would mention if the nba could somehow reduce steph curry's shooting percentage, that would really help for my rockets who went through a very painful series. And I would also like to check to see if Mr. curry is in fact a space alien. With that, I recognized senator markey. >> that shooting did ruin this year's bet. The center for massachusetts.
▶ 1:50:58Chair Cruz: >> the dallas celtics series. Steph curry's shooting percentage. The celtics heading percentage could go up a little bit. So we thank you all for being here.
▶ 1:51:19Chair Cruz: As an avid sports fan, I know the frustration of having to keep up and pay for numerous apps to watch your favorite team and I want to address a related urgent read to public access to media more broadly. Last week president trump unleashed a series of attacks on public media and the corporation for public broadcasting including an executive order that attempted to force the corporation for public broadcasting to cease funding for pbs and npr.
▶ 1:51:49Chair Cruz: He also proposed to randolph funding for the corporation for public broadcasting. In his 2026 budget request. Eliminating the corporation for public broadcasting would devastate hundreds of local and public media stations that rely on cpd to serve their communities, especially in a burial and low income areas.
▶ 1:52:09Chair Cruz: From arthur to pbs news hour, from tornado alerts to rural states, to the local debates in city halls, public media has always been there. Not because it turns a profit, but because it serves the public. These stations connect our country. From rural towns to urban centers. They provide culture and children's programming without commercial influence.
▶ 1:52:37Chair Cruz: Cutting off cpb funding will not hurt elites in washington, it will her children who rely on pbs kids. Pbs is the children's television network from 6:00 in the morning and children for generations of all races and incomes have relied on the public broadcasting system. It will hurt seniors in rural communities who trust their local public radio stations for news and weather and emergency.
▶ 1:53:04Chair Cruz: It will hurt pacific fabric of this nation at a time when polarization and division are already corroding our shared sense of truth. Mr. berkemeyer, do you agree that public media plays a vital role in ensuring all americans regardless of income, geography or race have access to trustworthy information?
▶ 1:53:26Mr. Berkemeyer: I do, and I believe it is especially important in areas across the country. >> q believe public media plays an important role in ensuring the children of all ages and backgrounds have access to educational and enriching programming which has served generations of american children? >> I do and as a parent make his love pbs programming. I think noncommercial pbs programming is very important.
▶ 1:53:55Mr. Berkemeyer: >> do you agree it plays a vital role in information during extreme weather or other emergencies? >> yes, I do. >> you're going to have a major debate here over the role of the public broadcasting system, npr and pbs.
▶ 1:54:16Mr. Berkemeyer: This is a debate we are going to have and they just think it is very important for everyone to understand that the corporation for public broadcasting represents a promise that every american, the matter their income for their zip code deserves access to free, absolutely free education, local reporting and trusted information.
▶ 1:54:44Mr. Berkemeyer: We must reject this attempt to silence the truth and instead recommit to the public interest, the storytelling, the democratic values that public broadcasting has upheld for generations. We must protect the children, especially the poorest children of our society. They have access to all of the apps but they do have access for free from the public broadcasting system. The american people are not asking this to defund big bird.
▶ 1:55:18Mr. Berkemeyer: They are asking us to defend big bird and all that it represents. So I thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:55:28Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator markey. I want to thank each of the witnessesfor your testimony today. Senators will have until the close of business on tuesday, may 13 to submit questions for the record. Witnesses will have until the end of the day on tuesday, may 27 to respond to those questions. And that concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned. [gavel sounds]