▶ 0:20:06Chair Wicker: To order. Good morning. I begin with a common refrain, the U.S. faces its most dangerous threat environment since world war ii. However, though many of our national security challenges mirror the 1930's, warfare looks much different today.
▶ 0:20:28Chair Wicker: Technological advances in artificial intelligence, hypersonic strike weapons, sixth generation space-based weapons are transforming the nature of modern conflict. The department of the air forces on the front lines of these changes. Today we will hear from three representatives of that service. We welcome secretary troy meink, general david allvin, and general b.
▶ 0:20:56Chair Wicker: Chance saltzman, all of them here with their continued service to the nation. As a fiscal year 26, the president's budget is not yet complete and we are aware that the three witnesses before us do not have the full budget picture.
▶ 0:21:15Chair Wicker: That being said, their testimony is still vital and will help us to consider how to support the mission of the air force and the space force, which is to be lethal and ready to fight tonight, as the slogan goes. One of our most pressing responsibilities is to make sure the long-term readiness of the air force. In the event of war we need not only capability, but also capacity.
▶ 0:21:40Chair Wicker: If we go to war in 2027, we will fight with the air force we have today, a mix of fourth generation fighters, like the f-16 and fifth generation fighters, f-22 and f-35. We need more fighter aircraft now.
▶ 0:22:01Chair Wicker: We are working along with our colleagues in the house, chairman rogers, to keep the x line open to our reconciliation bill. Even as we plan for future systems we must address the state of today's fleet. The mission capability rates across many platforms remain unacceptably low. Some platform fleets are frequently less than 50% capable. And we will have questions about that.
▶ 0:22:30Chair Wicker: The f-35 fleet is available 54% of the time. This is not just a maintenance issue, it is a readiness issue that impacts our ability to deter adversaries and respond when necessary. Taxpayers are investing billions to support these aircraft and out airmen and citizens deserve higher readiness levels to defend our national interests.
▶ 0:22:54Chair Wicker: I expect our witnesses to provide a frank assessment of what's driving these poor rates and more importantly what is being done to reverse the trend. The air force also plays a key role in modernizing our nuclear forces. The service is responsible for two legs of the nuclear triad and a majority of the U.S. to fear command control system. These programs must stay on schedule to deliver the essential capabilities that we need to deter nuclear threats.
▶ 0:23:25Chair Wicker: We cannot afford to allow these float -- programs to flounder because of a lack of leadership input -- prioritization. The committee expects accountability among managers and transparency with congress to make sure we can modernize effectively. I think that this panel shares that sentiment. I look forward to hearing eyewitnesses explain how the air force manages these risks while reserving strategic stability. The U.S.
▶ 0:23:54Chair Wicker: Space force has grown significantly in the last five years. Veteran should continue as threats are growing as well maintaining space superiority, a failed mission to increase investment in the service being absolutely vital. We must invest in the facilities that support our service members. This committee unanimously adopted a provision requiring the service to maintain a minimum 4% plant replacement value for infrastructure.
▶ 0:24:29Chair Wicker: That provision survived conference and was signed into law by the president. It is the law of the land. Let me say this again, it is the law of the land and senior leaders should set the example to the force by following the law, a law that was created I must point out because the service had long ignored the problem. We cannot make progress on these issues without the help of those who wear the uniform and support the mission every day.
▶ 0:25:01Chair Wicker: Recruiting and retention continues to be a major challenge and we need to remain focused on supporting service members and their families with the resources, care, and career opportunities that they deserve.
▶ 0:25:16Chair Wicker: I look forward to the hearing and the testimony from each of our witnesses about how they intend to ensure that the department has what it needs to maintain these challenges and our superiority in air and space and prepare for the threats that we face on the horizon. With that, I turn to my colleague, ranking member read.
▶ 0:25:39Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, generals, secretaries, welcome to the hearing. Thank you for your leadership and please share the committee's gratitude for all of the men and women in the department of air force in space force. The air and space demands grow more complicated by did -- by the day, even as forces continue to fly and operate the greatest aircraft and assets in the world.
▶ 0:26:08Sen. Reed: Our adversaries are developing their own cutting edge air defense systems, missiles, and satellites. The capability of such missiles is epic, as we saw last month on a number of f-35 close calls over yemen. Iran launched a large-scale attack against israel one year ago and many feared significant destruction.
▶ 0:26:39Sen. Reed: However, dozens of american f-15 fighters were incentivized by drones and is israeli at a. U.S. space force including command-and-control measures, with 95% of missiles being shot down, a strong demonstration of our air in space based capabilities.
▶ 0:27:05Sen. Reed: Despite these capabilities, however, the air force quickly kept pace in order to outstrip our rivals. To that in the committee look forward to receiving the defense budget request of the fiscal year 2026 and I urge the white house to deliver it as soon as possible.
▶ 0:27:25Sen. Reed: The air force has spent the last several years modernizing the capabilities, including the bomber force and continental ballistic missile, advanced battery management programs, with several unmanned aircraft systems. Modernization can only be successful if the air force appropriately balances legacy platforms against new priorities, including unapproved systems. I would ask for an update and how you are addressing this challenge.
▶ 0:27:53Sen. Reed: General allen, the air force recently announced the 47 as the next generation program and while production is several years and -- away, we would like to know what gaps you intend the f 47 to fill in how you vision the service of mowing the aircraft.
▶ 0:28:10Sen. Reed: In addition, air force success has come by decades in its ability to acquire and control data with the ability to act on information across the battle space quickly using automation, artificial intelligence, and predictive analytics. The committee would appreciate an update on these and other programs that are receiving increased emphasis and resources. Gen.
▶ 0:28:38Sen. Reed: Saltzman, and the numerous activities around the department of defense, given that the space force is five years old I understand it is still becoming institutionalized by the department and there are many challenges in the process. I would like to know how you are growing those services with personnel and in the space development agency and how you are working for a service culture that can succeed in a dramatically involved space environment. Directing the department of defense to missile threats.
▶ 0:29:14Sen. Reed: A concept relying heavily on space-based systems and I would like to ask each witness to explain your respective roles in the golden dawn program and how you plan to a shift resources. Thank you for appearing today, general, I look forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:29:35Chair Wicker: Gentlemen, the three of you have submitted written testimony consisting of 18 pages. Rather than asking each of you to read six pages at a time, I would ask how do you propose to proceed on opening statements?
▶ 0:30:07Chair Wicker: Gen. Allvin?
▶ 0:30:08Gen. Allvin: I'm happy to read my opening statement or we can defer it and get two questions.
▶ 0:30:13Chair Wicker: So, you are all three prepared? Gen. Allvin, you are recognized.
▶ 0:30:20Gen. Allvin: Good morning, chairman, ranking member, members of the subcommittee, and I'd like to give up warm welcome to Dr. troy meink. The department of the air force will be well served under his leadership.
▶ 0:30:36Gen. Allvin: Today I'm proud to represent the 677 thousand total air force members serving the nation and I think support not only for those air men, but for your their families and my immense pride in the exemplary performance in securing our homeland and deploying it worldwide. From the pacific to the middle east and our southern border, they work around the clock to deliver air power, anytime, anywhere, to protect the united states.
▶ 0:31:02Gen. Allvin: The strategic landscape has shifted dramatically in a world where the prc is rapidly monotone -- rapidly updating and reshaping the national order to include the prc nuclear break out the demands of unmatched deterrence capabilities. In parallel we have unprecedented threats to our homeland that make one thing clear, the U.S. must maintain air power to safeguard security and deter aggression. This is not just a future challenge. It is today's reality.
▶ 0:31:33Gen. Allvin: To achieve peace through strength, we must adapt and evolve. Requiring almost recent defense guidance with three enduring priorities. First, defend the homeland. Air and missile threats are evolving and speedy and sophistication. The ability to defeat those threats in real-time is foundational to defense and nonnegotiable. Simultaneously, the U.S. air force provides a reliable, safe, and effective nuclear deterrent, the backbone of stability.
▶ 0:32:03Gen. Allvin: These priorities are paramount, cannot fail, must be given equal weight. And we must project power independently or as a part of a joint force to rapidly respond anywhere to deter aggression and win. This makes our air force unique and it is what is needed now more than ever.
▶ 0:32:20Gen. Allvin: To achieve these priorities we have asked for sustained support and modernization in the development of sustained capabilities with the fy 26 budget request that aligns with operational realities, preserving current readiness and optimizing our force for contested environments and one that blends next-generation aircraft, autonomous systems, and resilient command control with modernization efforts to rebuild including the continued development of the f 47, combat
▶ 0:32:50Gen. Allvin: Aircraft, and other possibilities to expand that out float -- outnumbers costs keep pace with evolving threats. These platforms are critical not just to maintain parity, but also the edge of our war fighters need. At the same time capitalizing fleets essential to maintain power projection.
▶ 0:33:10Gen. Allvin: The investment in nuclear modernization remains a top priority with funding developed towards the central program radars and revitalized systems that anchor deterrence for decades to come. Equally as important is investment in our airman where we enhance recruiting and expand training opportunities and strengthen family infrastructure.
▶ 0:33:33Gen. Allvin: We suffered a setback because of the continuing resolution with half $1 billion in the military personnel account resulting in our inability to fund the recruitment of 3000 americans who want to join the air force. Furthermore, particularly Mr.
▶ 0:33:48Gen. Allvin: Chairman at statement about investment that we need facilities for sustained restoration and modernization, because of the reduced budget continued -- triggered by the cr, we had to reduce our account by $642 million just to remain solvent. This directly affected quality of life for our airman you must find a better way going into the future.
▶ 0:34:11Gen. Allvin: We don't just need one air force, we need a more capable one, more tooth, less tailed, delivering rapid and decisive blows. Divesting from aging systems and unused structure about investing in platforms and people enhancing the war fighting capacity. More means more options for the nation with enhanced homeland defense, strengthened deterrence, unmatched power projection, strategically posture to deny adversaries.
▶ 0:34:38Gen. Allvin: No other service can match with the air force delivers, affecting it across the globe at any scale. Our airman are the best in the world, with -- ready to win today and build a force for tomorrow, all the way through the 21st century. Thank you for your time, I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:57Chair Wicker: Thank you. Let's go to general saltzman, next. Sir, you are ready.
▶ 0:35:04Gen. Saltzman: Distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the support and the opportunity to testify on the posture of space for that space force for fy 26. Never before in history has space been more critical to the history -- to the future of our nation, satellites providing agriculture and finance.
▶ 0:35:26Gen. Saltzman: It has become the backbone of our national security and the joint forces built around the assumption that space power will be there when needed with gps allowing our forces to ensure the global c2 and constant vigilance on the battlefield to alert america to missile launches it adversarial action. Providing the space force with 3% of the dod budget and 1% of the personnel as space force is a great value proposition.
▶ 0:35:58Gen. Saltzman: For this tiny fraction of resources you can create a service that has become indispensable to modern power projection. Despite the dramatic rise in threats and the increasing importance of space, over the last few budget cycles experienced shrinking resources with a disconnect between value and investment.
▶ 0:36:18Gen. Saltzman: Further exacerbating the situation, space force has been asked to accept responsibilities and missions, forcing tough choices between delayed readiness and unaddressed vulnerabilities. To illustrate my point, in the past three years we have been asked to take on new missions and adding new control capabilities, taking on new capabilities associated with modeling, simulation, forced design analytics, and a threefold increase in the
▶ 0:36:49Gen. Saltzman: Launching at the national space training requirements that have driven the needs for increases in strength, military construction, new education training curriculum, and expanding patient technology requirements. If this space-based technology is associated with the golden dome it will depend heavily on sensors, fusion, and other capabilities.
▶ 0:37:12Gen. Saltzman: These are not modernization efforts or shifts from a legacy mission, it's a new requirement never before accomplished with new visionaries requiring new instable resources over time to deliver and in fy 26 we will have developed the blueprints and groundwork to continue these efforts in earnest and if resources are made available, space resource will be made in pursuit of these critical priority missions with space giving us an incredible
▶ 0:37:44Gen. Saltzman: Strategic advantage, but any advantage to become a vulnerability when held at risk when it comes to the satellites that make the defense possible. To be successful in this effort we must be able to control the domain and protect their capabilities in space while denying the adversary the ability to space against us and in essence it's why we have a space force, it's the job of the military service to achieve superiority in this domain and that is what we do for space in terms of securing the interests
▶ 0:38:15Gen. Saltzman: Around space and resourcing it accordingly. My priorities have remained consistent. Build comprehensive domain awareness and develop the capacity to halt adversarial space assets.
▶ 0:38:31Gen. Saltzman: To enhance situational awareness we have additional sensors, data fusion capabilities, and networks to put this information in the hands of decision-makers and to make sure that we are resilient to attack we have from -- prolific launch infrastructure for study cost-effective deployment capabilities and protective measures for satellite networks.
▶ 0:38:53Gen. Saltzman: Finally, to hold space assets at risk we have invested in systems designed to defeat anything targeting our systems are homeland. Because of the work we have done and additional resources, that will enable accelerated delivery with expanded capacity in area.
▶ 0:39:11Gen. Saltzman: Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the fy 26 posture of the space force and we stand at the forefront of the newest domain and with the support of this committee I'm confident space force will hold the line in advance our national superiority in space.
▶ 0:39:26Chair Wicker: Thank you. Dr. meink?
▶ 0:39:31Dr. Meink: Distinguished members, we would like to thank you for the opportunity to talk today and I would personally like to give mike sincere thanks during the hearing process. The department of the air force is at an inflection point where we have engaged in a fast-paced race against a well sourced strategic partner.
▶ 0:39:57Dr. Meink: Simultaneously fix personnel and platform challenges affecting our readiness and must balance our jenin readiness and project power today with imperative to rebuild the military and develop capabilities to continue to deter our adversaries tomorrow. Our fiscal priorities are focused on addressing the balance in these priorities in effecting our objectives as outlined in strategic guidance with the scope and severity of the threat to our homeland national interest being significant.
▶ 0:40:27Dr. Meink: We now face one of the most dangerous security environments in our history. The department of the air force has structure of long-term strategies around the belief that china is an increasing threat and the reality directly influence the department fiscal priorities with the chinese defense budget having doubled in the past 11 years, growing 6% annually on average with defense spending that has grown 3% over the same amount of time, increasing below the inflation level of the last five years and many of our allied partners in
▶ 0:40:58Dr. Meink: Defense spending rates are lower . These limitations have allowed china to start closing the gap in capabilities. Defending the homeland is the department of the air force's top priority and we will do so by continuing to monitor our forces, especially the sentinel b 21 programs, as well as the nuclear command control communication that supports these systems. We are also eager to support the golden dome for america.
▶ 0:41:27Dr. Meink: While still being constructed, there's no question that the air force will have a significant role in the project. Our next priority is to deter china and others. We will do this through investing in our people, readiness, and posture in the indo pacific region I we believe that our people are and will continue to be our key competitive advantage.
▶ 0:41:51Dr. Meink: We are working to train our airmen and guardians on the challenges of warfare without sanctuary and are emphasizing readiness standards by creating new standards, assessments, and exercises geared towards preparing personnel for this environment and we are strengthening our posture with -- within the indo pacific region by conducting high-level exercises testing our ability to deploy and operate in austere environments.
▶ 0:42:18Dr. Meink: Lastly, the department of the air force is preparing to provide critical capabilities and forces to defeat our adversaries if deterrence fails. We will concentrate in two areas. First, our ability to fight tonight and second, our ability to fight in the future. Through both investments, the department aims to establish a balanced high low mix of capabilities optimized to protect from within and from outside of adversarial threat environments.
▶ 0:42:47Dr. Meink: The department of the air force is looking to streamline -- streamline wherever possible, including providing creative ways to remove excess infrastructure and retire obsolete inventory and we recognize the need and responsibility to pass an audit as soon as possible and we are working to make that a reality. The department of the air force is extremely proud of all of our airmen and guardians defending our nation and its interests every hour of every day.
▶ 0:43:15Dr. Meink: We commit to working with this committee to secure the 26 budget request to directly support airmen, guardians, and their uncompromising mission. Thank you for your time, we look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:43:27Chair Wicker: Quick yes or no answer from each of you. Much of the funding of the defense reconciliation bill will be unspecific because of house and senate rules and we will technically need discretion with the department of defense to write recommendations. A quick yes or no from each of you, do you commit to follow unequivocally congressional spending regulations and defense regulations?
▶ 0:43:58Gen. Allvin: Yes.
▶ 0:44:00Sec. Meink: Yes, chairman.
▶ 0:44:02Gen. Saltzman: Yes, sir.
▶ 0:44:04Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Gen. Allvin, you said in a statement that I agree with, there had to be a better way. At that time you were talking about these frequent continuing resolutions. Were you not?
▶ 0:44:22Gen. Allvin: Chairman, that's what I was referring to.
▶ 0:44:26Chair Wicker: Thank you. General saltzman, I think you said the spares -- space force consumes 3%, about 3% of the defense budget. You are taking on a national responsibilities. I think that you agree that those additional responsibilities are correctly directed towards the space force?
▶ 0:44:51Gen. Saltzman: Sir, I do.
▶ 0:44:59Chair Wicker: In the next five to 10 years do you think that will remain a correct percentage of the overall budget?
▶ 0:45:06Gen. Saltzman: I think that depends on the denominator, but we need more resources to accomplish those missions.
▶ 0:45:13Chair Wicker: Ok. Now, gen. Allvin, let's talk about the f 47. Let's compare it to the development of the f-35. I understand that there is a completely new acquisition approach.
▶ 0:45:35Chair Wicker: Don't take the full three minutes I have left, but what is the difference and how will this affect the taxpayer and war fighter national security?
▶ 0:45:46Gen. Allvin: I will go fast as I can, I could go on for an hour. The primary difference is we now have more control over the project as it moves forward. We have in sourced more. We have more ownership of the tech base. We have guided government referenced architecture and we own mission systems. Others can come play, but we own the development of grade.
▶ 0:46:13Gen. Allvin: It can come at the speed of software, not hardware, with engineers understanding how to advance in terms of paying the extra costs.
▶ 0:46:20Chair Wicker: This is a major change in approach, is it not?
▶ 0:46:24Gen. Allvin: 100%.
▶ 0:46:26Chair Wicker: How will it affect the taxpayer and the timeliness of the project?
▶ 0:46:31Gen. Allvin: We will have some conversations about f-35 in how we don't want to repeat that. If it affects the taxpayer, my sense is that it will be more actual with more disruptive technology coming into play to develop more advanced systems where we can more rapidly integrate them not only into the f-47, but the collaborative aircraft, yfq42 and 44, currently under prototype, they will be under the same mission
▶ 0:47:03Gen. Allvin: Architecture. We will be upgrading not one platform, but a system so the american taxpayer can get more combat capability out of their money.
▶ 0:47:16Chair Wicker: What do we mean by mission capability? We are told that there are fairly poor numbers, 60% readiness rates for aircraft. How are we going to address that issue?
▶ 0:47:29Gen. Allvin: Mission capable rate, you assess the missions for which they were trained. Whether that is heir to combat, air to ground, certain capabilities with systems working to allow it to happen. When we say mission capable, it gets pretty detailed. Fully mission capable, non-mission capable.
▶ 0:47:50Chair Wicker: F-16, is the capability rate where it ought to be?
▶ 0:47:54Gen. Allvin: For its age, I would say that it is about where it ought to be. For its age and sophistication. Obviously, the more complex the system, the tougher to keep it up.
▶ 0:48:05Chair Wicker: Where is it?
▶ 0:48:07Gen. Allvin: F-16? I'm cheating, I don't have it all committed to memory, but availability is now just about hovering at 50%. That deceives you a bit. Aircraft ability includes a time when it goes into the program duck boat. So, the mission capable rate is higher than that and I can get that for you here. I can do it right now. 62% mission capable rates.
▶ 0:48:36Chair Wicker: You probably will want to supplement your answer, there, but thank you very much. Senator reed, you are now recognized.
▶ 0:48:45Sen. Reed: Thank you, Mr. chairman. The air force is one of the most highly technical services. Together with space force. You have a workforce that is very talented and critical. The proposed reductions in the civilian workforce in the department of defense, are you anticipating losses and will you be tracking the losses? You have people working for you who could walk out the next day and get a substantial job.
▶ 0:49:20Sen. Reed: A lot of these early retirements and etc. Are complicating it. Your comments, please.
▶ 0:49:24Sec. Meink: Yes, senator. We are watching it. Yes, we do expect to lose personnel. We already are. You know, to reiterate your comments, the technical skill base the air force acquires is always competitive, right? It's a very competitive skill base.
▶ 0:49:47Sec. Meink: I think that is why it were cute -- recruiting activities, which I intend to focus quite a bit of my time on, it's critical going forward. It is a rapidly evolving environment and we have to make sure we are reporting the right talent. In the end it is prioritization. We have gone through a number of these ups and downs with respect to personnel, prioritizing and making sure we look at how we do recruiting, retention, and the new people are focused on priority.
▶ 0:50:22Sen. Reed: General saltzman, you have a highly technical force, have you seen many people leaving because of the climate?
▶ 0:50:32Gen. Saltzman: We have certainly seen people living -- leaving as a combination of incentives and divert programs. We were in a hiring freeze for some time. When we tried to get to a large civilian workforce, we were asked to stop and then asked to let others resign early. Total reduction 714% of the civilian workforce inside space force as a result of smaller numbers.
▶ 0:51:04Gen. Saltzman: Smaller numbers drastically affect our percentages.
▶ 0:51:15Sen. Reed: The civilian workforce has essentially reached the point of breaking, if you will. If that happens, you must alert us. We will not be doing these great scientific modernization issues without these critical workers. General saltzman, in your publication, U.S.
▶ 0:51:41Sen. Reed: Space force fights a framework layout that's very sophisticated through the defensive weapons systems you need in the future. Do you agree that these systems should be the property of the space force, title x? There has been discussion of leasing pieces of equipment and things like that.
▶ 0:52:07Sen. Reed: You would have perhaps a civilian owned system in kyl chain raising some serious issues.
▶ 0:52:14Gen. Saltzman: We take seriously our responsibility to wield military force and believe there should be government systems and are actively going through a process to determine it precisely what our in hot air -- inherently governmental and military functions are that we would not want to contract out. There are some fine lines there between the data that the use and how the data is acquired and how it's used in terms of targeting. We are trying to be precise in terms of retaining governmental control.
▶ 0:52:46Sen. Reed: Gen. Allvin:
▶ 0:52:50Sen. Reed: Gen. Allvin, can you estimate how much in costs facilities you have that you don't need and that you may have to maintain and how much that is per year?
▶ 0:52:58Gen. Allvin: As far as the volume, we estimate we have about 23% excess vertical infrastructure, about 60% excess horizontal. Dollar value, about 30%. The rough estimate is that it will accost us an additional 1.5 billion per year just to maintain that. That was sort of the source of my, I guess, ill delivered issue on that.
▶ 0:53:24Gen. Allvin: I'm not lamenting the strong interest from the senate and making sure that airmen have a place to work and live that makes sense, it's the excess we don't need. There are probably innovative solutions we can work on together.
▶ 0:53:40Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, I think you are right. We do have to look at the innovative way to reduce and lower costs, free up $1.5 billion in the air force and put it back into quality of life or systems. Thank you, general. >> gen. Allvin: >> gen. Allvin, you can allow for that excess and comply with the statute, can you not?
▶ 0:54:04Gen. Allvin: We must, it's in the law.
▶ 0:54:08Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator fischer?
▶ 0:54:12Senator Fischer: Sec. Meink:
▶ 0:54:16Senator Fischer: Sec. Meink, at your confirmation hearing you agree to utilize all available tools to accelerate sentinel placement around capabilities moving forward. The mccready review concluded that the continuation of sentinel is essential to our national security. Thanks to the thoroughness of that review, we can make smarter changes to the program that will reduce the projected costs and schedules of the program.
▶ 0:54:46Senator Fischer: However, the air force needs to start making design decisions that will get us to the milestone. The longer that you wait, the more likely it is that costs will increase. I also don't want to see the air force choose to raid sentinel budget lines to pay for other programs because the air force has delayed milestone decisions. Mr.
▶ 0:55:11Senator Fischer: Secretary, I know that you have been in this position for all of about a week now, but next time you come before the committee, I would want to have a robust discussion on the progress of sentinel and the risk that we would incur in the program being arbitrarily delayed or underfunded. Also, sir, U.S.
▶ 0:55:34Senator Fischer: Stratcom commander general cotton has recommended that the air force procure at least 145 b 21 bombers to meet his requirements as stratcom commander. How do you intend to look -- work with stratcom to meet these requirements and make sure that the air force procure is enough b 21's so that we can meet the projected threat?
▶ 0:56:05Sec. Meink: With respect to sentinel, yes, ma'am, fifth day on the job, I'll be having a deep dive on the sentinel program. That will be the start. We have to get on. Obviously, it led to restructuring in the program, but what exactly that will be, I will be working with the team and happy to impact the committee when we get more detail on that.
▶ 0:56:34Sec. Meink: B 21, I will be meeting with general cotton soon to discuss the portfolio. B 21 is a big part of that. We understand the department is working with stratcom and joint staff throughout the administration to help define what the long-term requirement is in terms of increasing. We are looking at that. Thankfully, that is one of the programs working well for the department.
▶ 0:57:02Sen. Fischer: Right. The stratcom commander does have to express his needs, his requirements so that he can address the threats. Then it is up to the services to step forward and meet those requirements. Am I stating that correctly?
▶ 0:57:21Sec. Meink: Into the joint staff in the in the service executes on the requirement, thank you.
▶ 0:57:27Sen. Fischer: General saltzman, all the other services are investing heavily in long-range flyers and many times they say they can't shoot what they can't see. We are going to need to rely heavily on our space-based systems to track objects beyond the line of sight. How does space force work with your sister services to understand what space capabilities they will need to rely on so that they can close those?
▶ 0:57:56Gen. Saltzman: We were designated the joint space requirement integrator by the joint staff. One of the ways we executed those responsibilities was standing up in the execution for the ja to where the services could put requirements in, vet them all, make sure there is proper attention given to each requirement so that there isn't too much redundancy with no gaps in the capabilities as well.
▶ 0:58:23Gen. Saltzman: Programs like the ground moving target indicator, soon to be the air moving target indicator accounting for those requirements on the fidelity and latency of the data to support the systems with in-flight updates and etc., we make sure to account for those things as we develop the programs.
▶ 0:58:41Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Mr. secretary, in the submitted statement you described say oc crucial to future warfare endeavors. I agree. I was disappointed that president biden, his budget request last year did not include any military construction funding necessary to support sayoc.
▶ 0:59:07Sen. Fischer: Should the air force be planning for the associated military construction projects, hangers and ramps to be completed by the time that sayoc is projected to reach operation?
▶ 0:59:27Gen. Saltzman: Yes and I've had discussions on that to make sure that we are ready.
▶ 0:59:32Sen. Fischer: Will you continue to have the air force continue to make sure those projects will be completed in a timely manner?
▶ 0:59:40Gen. Saltzman: Yes, senator.
▶ 0:59:41Sen. Fischer: Thank you.
▶ 0:59:43Chair Wicker: Thank. Senator hirono?
▶ 0:59:49Senator Hirono: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I would like to start by noting a questionable act by the president recently who confirmed that he is planning to accept a $400 million boeing 747 gift from the qatari royal. Let's call it what it is.
▶ 1:00:09Senator Hirono: The president is using the dod to accept, you could even call it longer, and impermissible gift to skirt constitutional limitations on the acceptance of personal gifts from foreign governments without congressional approval.
▶ 1:00:30Senator Hirono: Even more brazenly, he is placing the burden to retrofit an aircraft on the air force, which experts say is likely to costs more than $1 billion before transferring it to his own personal use post. -- post-presidency. Excepting this gift brings with it significant counterintelligence risks.
▶ 1:01:00Senator Hirono: As we sit here, concerning ourselves with the use of taxpayer money, from an operational and security management standpoint, it makes no sense that this should even occur. Mr. chairman, I wanted to make a note of this, it's not just what me but what others consider questionable behavior by this president.
▶ 1:01:30Senator Hirono: Moving on to questions for general saltzman, the space force is planning to install up to seven additional telescopes in order to support space domain awareness in hawaii. Monitoring and tracking the number of objects in orbit is critical to supporting the joint force. However, this place holds native significance to the cultural community.
▶ 1:02:00Senator Hirono: Given the unique significance of it, will you commit to working with and listening to the concerns of local stakeholders to ensure transparency and community engagement as the space force considers options for this project?
▶ 1:02:19Gen. Saltzman: Absolutely. We have conducted several community engagements and will continue.
▶ 1:02:25Sen. Fischer: I appreciate that. I know that you you're contemplating is very important. The last thing we need is for the community to not have a kind of awareness and the support it needs to enable us to go forward. Gen. Allvin, with the ongoing retirement of the aging e3 fleet , the pacific air force has identified an urgent need to find a replacement as soon as possible.
▶ 1:02:54Sen. Fischer: I have discussed this with others. My understanding is that the air force is planning to spend an additional $400 million in fiscal year 25 for an advanced procurement of the e seven which tail aircraft. Can you talk about the importance of rapidly feeling a replacement aircraft to support operations in the indo pacific?
▶ 1:03:18Gen. Allvin: Thank you very much, senator. You couldn't be more on target there with the idea of being able to maintain our ability to do airborne battle management. E3 has been a fantastic platform , but it is getting old. Looking to the future, we understand that there is a future there. Working with my brother in the space force, we will be able to sort of migrate some of that into space.
▶ 1:03:47Gen. Allvin: We have to be able to make sure we had migrated all in terms of making sense and what the decisions are based on that. This offers advantages that the e3 doesn't have respecting the other capabilities as.
▶ 1:04:05Gen. Allvin: The ability to maintain a viable battle management, especially in the indo pacific, with redundancy between the air and space layer as it matures, that will be important going into the future.
▶ 1:04:18Sen. Hirono: The replacement situation has already been delayed in my understanding is the administration is still considering whether or not they should cancel e7 altogether in favor of a space-based system, that will take time and I think that you need to have a suitable replacement for aircraft that are over 50 years old much sooner than moving towards a space-based system. Would you agree?
▶ 1:04:47Gen. Allvin: I agree we need to maintain that viability and you're correct, in the 25 position we had us advancing those prototypes.
▶ 1:04:58Sen. Hirono: Thank you. Mr. chairman, I will be submitting other questions for the record.
▶ 1:05:04Chair Wicker: Thank you.
▶ 1:05:07Senator Cotton: You talked about the need to purchase to replace the oldest fighters. Why is that? We will be flying some of our oldest into the future, would purchasing new now increase the ability to defend the homeland and project power abroad in the near term?
▶ 1:05:31Gen. Allvin: That's a great point, having the right capacity and capability, the right mix of the high-end to be able to dominate and be relevant in the indo pacific fight, as well as other fighters that might not need to be as sophisticated. Building out the whole capacity.
▶ 1:05:50Sen. Cotton: Will the cca increment one be able to purvey -- replace man fighters like the strike eagle?
▶ 1:06:00Gen. Allvin: We are on the nascent part of that, but my assessment right now is that it will not replace that. It will be a great augmentation on the threshold where it can work with the f-35 and the f-22 before it gets fielded, helping us to deliver more combat capability at a better costs point. As far as replacing man fighters, that remains to be seen. What we have built in, my assessment is that that would not be good for replacement.
▶ 1:06:31Sen. Cotton: I did not think so. Given the presidential decision to move forward on the 47 as a manned fighter, wondering if it can't be replaced by autonomous aircraft. You would think it could do so for the 16 strike eagle. Focusing on just the next decade, then, or current acquisition options are pretty limited. We've got just a couple of airframes going now. Would you be able to use newly built U.S.
▶ 1:06:59Sen. Cotton: Block 80 f-16s to strengthen our strike fleet, if congress can find additional funds for such an effort?
▶ 1:07:10Gen. Allvin: To give you good advice on that, I would have to look at what the defense industrial base can do on that. My sense is that the current block 70 is really eating up a lot of that production capacity. Looking at what it would be to take the export and adapt it to a block 80, the time it would take, wherever fall into the production line, I would have to get back with more details as to whether that was an advisable situation.
▶ 1:07:37Sen. Cotton: I'm glad that you raise the issue of a block 70. Would you be able to use modern block 70's being made for allies to meet critical needs? If that option were available.
▶ 1:07:52Gen. Allvin: I would have to take that one for the record. I don't want to give you a yes or a no, I specifically understand what the export variant can and can't do in the adjustments we would have to make it for more easily agreeable U.S. built fighters, I would need to see what the integration opportunities and costs would be before I could give you a good answer. If I could take that for the record to give you more detail?
▶ 1:08:17Sen. Cotton: I would like more detail to come back to the committee on that. Getting to your first point, it's not just about the most highly capable fighters, but about the capacity ensure number that we have. It's over the next decade, is that right?
▶ 1:08:38Gen. Allvin: As we continue to give the older aircraft, they become more and more expensive to maintain. The mission capable rate, it's not what we like it to be. The average f-16, it was built right around the time the cold war ended. Even those f-16s are getting pretty old.
▶ 1:09:02Sen. Cotton: You have set the country needs more air force. Could you elaborate specifically on what you mean in practical terms? In what congress can do to best support the country getting more air force?
▶ 1:09:15Gen. Allvin: I will go quickly, senator. When we look at all the things we will discuss here today, I would love to have a more rapidly modernized capable refueling ports. It's about range in the pacific. More air force. As we do our operations in the indo pacific for combat deployment to ensure base resiliency, to have more capabilities not only in the platforms, but in the munitions for polio.
▶ 1:09:47Gen. Allvin: There are so many things. By the way, I didn't even talk about the nuclear, where we can't take our eyes off the ball , as well as what it would take to defend threats to the homeland. All of those things, stacked up, when he tried to prioritize with our limited budget, there are many unhappy folks here. We don't have all that we would like to have.
▶ 1:10:11Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator cotton. Gen. Allvin, how are we going to get more range in our refueling in the near term?
▶ 1:10:20Gen. Allvin: I was talking more about survivability. More details in the air. Ensuring that we continue the recapitalization of the kc 135 fleet into the future and chairman, we can talk about this in another session, but in a more contested environment, they do those things that they all do so well, allowing combat capability to have that loitering time, to be able to spend more time prosecuting targets.
▶ 1:10:48Gen. Allvin: We make sure that the refuelers that we have can stay in the air in maintain more survivability. It's not just the modernization of it.
▶ 1:10:58Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator king?
▶ 1:11:03Senator King: I want to follow up on that very question. One way to help the tanker capacity of the kc 46 is at bangor, affectionately known as the maniacs. As you know, they provided enormous support during the gulf war. Anything on the east side of the united states in terms of europe, the middle east, it will be an incredibly important capacity.
▶ 1:11:28Senator King: So, they are doing fantastically with the present fleet, but kc 46 is the next generation and as you pointed out yourself, the tankers are the heart and soul of being able to keep our forces over the target. So, I hope that is on your agenda.
▶ 1:11:45Gen. Allvin: Absolutely. The maniacs were on the list in terms of counter locations and the preferred location will happen in the fourth quarter of this year.
▶ 1:11:55Sen. King: I appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. chairman, I think we could save a lot of money on the f 47, sec. Meink the only secretary of the air force who has ever designed, built, and flown his own extra mental aircraft. We can just have him do the f-47 south, right, secretary?
▶ 1:12:14Chair Wicker: Is that in the form of a motion? [laughter]
▶ 1:12:18Sen. King: Sec. Meink: I don't think that my garage has the infrastructure.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. King: Gen. Allvin:
▶ 1:12:27Sen. King: Gen. Allvin, I am concerned about the availability, mission availability. You mentioned a couple of figures. 52% commercial air fleet, that's the high 90's. Granted, they are more complicated systems in the military, but I believed, and this applies to the navy as well, that we don't put enough emphasis ontalking about expense products, aircraft, and if we had more ready to fly perhaps would not have to buy as many
▶ 1:12:58Sen. King: New ones. I see that as closing that gap between 62% and 98% which is the commercial availability rate would go a long way to helping us with our budget and also helping us with our readiness.
▶ 1:13:11Gen. Allvin: One of the big challenges is the airlines have a profit model, a different business model. As a look at that, they generate --.
▶ 1:13:24Sen. King: The difference is they have to meet up a profit realization rate and we don't. The military doesn't. I am just saying, surely, we could get beyond 62%.
▶ 1:13:38Gen. Allvin: One of the big challenges is the case he won 35, the average one, is as old as me. I am no spring chicken. The airlines just throw their is out because it becomes cost ineffective for them to maintain order platforms that can still have enough seats, passenger seats to maintain a profit. They will dump those to the side.
▶ 1:14:02Sen. King: But do you believe we could do better than 62%?
▶ 1:14:04Gen. Allvin: I do but it becomes more challenging. Yes, we can continue to do better. We put more money against it every year. Importantly, for the past few years, despite increased many we put into weapon systems sustainment because the increased of age, it takes more man hours and mechanical hours, we are not getting that much more of an increase because we're spending more time trying to fix those. That is a challenge we are constantly working and we need to improve.
▶ 1:14:34Chair Wicker: General saltzman, if we were starting with a blank sheet of paper in terms of the threats we are facing, by the russians and chinese, 3% of the defense budget for the space force is totally inadequate. I hope you can comment on that. Understanding your under the subject of the defense budget and all those things.
▶ 1:15:03Chair Wicker: As far as I'm concerned, we need to vastly significantly increase the availability of funds to the space force. Given the magnitude of the mission to which you have been assigned.
▶ 1:15:15Gen. Saltzman: I agree. The last three years of funding is not allow me to go as quickly as possible, putting capabilities together that address the targets that I am being asked to address by U.S. space command amongst other combatant commands.
▶ 1:15:31Sen. King: If you are starting with a blank sheet of paper for allocation of defense funds today, I don't think there's any question the space force would get substantially more resources given the development of the threat, which is first -- the first hours or days of any conflict with major adversary are going to take place in space.
▶ 1:15:55Sen. King: As you mentioned an senator fischer mission, sensors, gps, everything is going to depend on our ability to defend that. I certainly hope to work with members of the committee to see that you have the resources, adequate, to meet the challenges you have been asked to meet. Thank you.
▶ 1:16:14Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator king. So to ramose.
▶ 1:16:22Sen. Lummis: Let me thank you for your service to our country. Secretary meink, I know you drink out of a fire hose right now so I'm not going to get into all of the current situation with regard to the air force. I would like to discuss something I think is critical and I know you have a background in it and that is it will come to no surprise to the rest of the committee I want to talk about spectrum for a minute. We have heard -- no surprise, right?
▶ 1:16:50Sen. Lummis: We have heard from 24 senior dod officials and hearings of the last two years including every service chief and eight combatant commanders that vacated the 3.1 3.45 gigahertz band of the spectrum. Negative consequences for our war fighting capabilities. In fact, the department of the navy alone is estimated relocating their systems to a different part of the spectrum band would cost them approximately $250 billion.
▶ 1:17:20Sen. Lummis: How would forcing the air force to vacate the 3.1 to 3.45 gigahertz and other critical bands of the electromagnetic spectrum impact the services or fighting capabilities?
▶ 1:17:35Sec. Meink: First off, thank you for the support of this particular issue. As you mentioned, we have been discussing this for quite some time. And for other members of the committee and parts of congress and support in this area. One of the things we discussed a little bit is what would it cost to do that and what would be the impact.
▶ 1:17:56Sec. Meink: I think one of the things we're struggling with a little bit is that just do the nature of physics of how these systems operate and how the atmosphere absorbs energy, that is a pretty special band. It is difficult and may be some impossible just to move to other bands. In some cases, it may be very difficult if not impossible to totally replicate capabilities we have in the band and would take quite some time to do so even if we could.
▶ 1:18:28Sec. Meink: That is what we are struggling with now, how do we do that and figure out what we could do and how we would move them spectrum we would move to so it is difficult to quantify.
▶ 1:18:36Sen. Rounds: Our near peer adversaries know that, don't they? Sec. Meink. Yes.
▶ 1:18:43Sen. Rounds: They would love us to vacate that from what we use it for, which is radar. Fair to say?
▶ 1:18:51Sec. Meink: I would agree with that.
▶ 1:18:55Sen. Rounds: It would be an unforced error to give up that spectrum for one of its highest rated uses come the physics involved in these this is the place where radar really works.
▶ 1:19:03Sec. Meink: Without a much better transition plan and understanding of how we would do that, it would be a mistake.
▶ 1:19:11Sen. Rounds: Thank you. Do you have any kind of an estimate as to what it would cost if we could migrate someplace else even if it would not provide us as good of capabilities?
▶ 1:19:21Sec. Meink: I think -- we had this discussion last night. I don't think just because that we don't have a coherent plan of where and how we would maneuver or move, we actually don't have a good number for you, senator.
▶ 1:19:38Sen. Rounds: Thank you. General saltzman, based on what you know, the potential paths forward for building out president trump's golden dome, is it possible to make it work if the department of defense were forced to vacate portions of the 3.1, three point 45 gigahertz band and other unnamed criticals band of the spectrum the space force currently uses as well? Gen.
▶ 1:20:04Sen. Rounds: Saltzman: as we evaluate the sensors that will be necessary to pick up hypersonic's, to pick up cruise missiles, to pick up ballistic missiles, their radars are essential in that area and that 3.1 to 3.45 as a secretary mentioned come the physical properties of that spectrum range are ideal for that kind of detection using radar and so the sensing part of the golden dome would suffer if we had to vacate.
▶ 1:20:33Sen. Rounds: This is a tiered system. There are certain assets in space that will help us to detect incoming weapons systems, but it is critical it is tiered with other systems that are based on the terrain and in the area of the targets we are protecting, correct?
▶ 1:20:48Gen. Saltzman: Most of our space domain awareness, which is required to assist transit through space, most of the sensors are ground-based. The system we are building, the dark system lives in this particular spectrum band as well and is critical to space domain orders.
▶ 1:21:06Sen. Rounds: Gen. Allvin, we are contracted right now for 100 be 21's. Anywhere close to the number we will need?
▶ 1:21:16Gen. Allvin: If we could snap our fingers right now and take as many as we could get right now. As we look to the path of how many we get into the future and look at opportunities, we also need to look at what the b-52 monitor, if it goes worse than we hoped, then we would need more. If it goes better than we help -- I would say I would take all I can get with the funding.
▶ 1:21:40Gen. Allvin: It is an incredible capability that turns out right now is testing pretty well, so the 100 minimum is something we can stand behind. When we look at the maximum, I went to look at the opportunities and risk over time.
▶ 1:21:50Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator peters?
▶ 1:21:55Sen. Peters: Thank you. Secretary meink, following the air force's announcement last year to base 12 brand new kc 46 refueling tankers in michigan base, I was proud at that time secured the air force commitment that that decision. Not preclude from refusing -- receiving fighter mission.
▶ 1:22:21Sen. Peters: Following this commitment and after years of advocacy on myself as well as the entire michigan delegation, democrats and republicans, the administration announced last month softer would receive 21 f-15 e x fighter jets to replace the base's aging a10's. I am proud of the 108 year legacy defending our nation.
▶ 1:22:50Sen. Peters: With this announcement, I'm certain legacy will continue for decades to come. Sir, you have publicly committed to honoring the kc 46 decision during our nomination hearing, which I appreciate. My question for you is following suffrage's announcement, do I have your commitment that future air force spending will support the recapitalization of suffrage's a10's with these new f-15 ex's?
▶ 1:23:20Sen. Peters: >> based on the president's decision come the air force is putting -- planning to execute the placement of the f-15.
▶ 1:23:33Sen. Peters: Thank you. Gen. Allvin, on that same note, suffrage's fighters and the kc 46 tankers will require some specialized infrastructure and ground support equipment including modifications at the flatlands as well as to some hangers -- although we have made pretty substantial investments in the database but we are going to need more. This will include kc 46 unique fueling requirements, maintenance demands.
▶ 1:24:03Sen. Peters: My question is, how is the air force prioritizing bases like suffrage with near-term military construction needs to support these flying missions that are imminent?
▶ 1:24:12Gen. Allvin: Our target is obviously as the decisions are made, we want to ensure as we lay in deplatforms, the platforms don't go there with the supporting of the structure. As we look at the timing, that timing may adjust the timing of the platforms or the infrastructure, one of the two. We look at those holistically on tearing up the abilities so when the platforms get there you can use them as well is prioritization across the department for the most critical infrastructure that we need.
▶ 1:24:41Gen. Allvin: Our target is to make sure when the platforms get there, they are able to be used as soon as possible.
▶ 1:24:47Sen. Peters: I like the option where we make sure that blood from stone get pushed back any further. To make sure construction is happening first. I hoped it would be a priority and we could work with you on that. We have the older platforms leaving, if too large of a gap, that causes all sorts of personnel issues and all of the complications you are well aware of. Hopefully, we can focus on that.
▶ 1:25:10Sen. Peters: My question to you as well as secretary meink, I've discussed with both of you the critical importance of collaborative combat aircraft and as both of you know, cca's are autonomous systems that work with our main fighters including the f-15 ex to increase their lethality and increase risk to our manned platforms also can work with the kc 46's in a great mentor as well.
▶ 1:25:36Sen. Peters: As these programs developed, I remain hopeful this cutting edge technology will also be concurrently fielded with air national guard units. My question to both of you, given the national guard's evolution from strategic reserve into a true operational force, house air force planning for concurrent fielding of cca's to include air national guard and would you plan on fielding these systems with existing fighter squadrons, including a 15 ex's?
▶ 1:26:05Gen. Allvin: Fundamentally, what we don't want to do is fall in the trap of treating them like any other manned platform. This is an opportunity -- think about a unique way are not only going to operate them, but also comes with a unique new way we may want to sustain them, house them, train with them. We have an experimental operation that is going to uncover some of that.
▶ 1:26:29Gen. Allvin: To figure out what is the best way to manage them, how do we train come how much is done in the synthetic and how much is done actual flying sissies are autonomous. As those unfold, so will our strategy for how and where we actually end up plastering those.
▶ 1:26:46Sen. Peters: Mr. secretary?
▶ 1:26:50Sec. Meink: Good answer.
▶ 1:26:53Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator ernst.
▶ 1:26:57Sen. Ernst: Thank you for our witnesses for being here today. I know all of you do murder boards before you come in front of us so you all should know exactly what I'm going to talk about today and general saltzman, you can take a breather. We are not going to talk space force today. Everyone knows I am a proud national guardsmen and even though it was army guard, I appreciate our air guard mothers and sisters.
▶ 1:27:28Sen. Ernst: I deeply understand our critical role our air national guard plays in defending our homeland. The air force's top priority as outlined in the fiscal 2026 posture statement is defending the homeland. And that starts with maintaining a geographically distributed force. So we are going to talk a little bit about our air national guard in iowa and the 185th refueling wing.
▶ 1:27:59Sen. Ernst: Very important unit to the midwest. Gen. Allvin, I've written down a few phrases you have set over the course of the hearing. More tails in the air, survivability, resilience, and one that I love, when the platforms get there the milcon is there.
▶ 1:28:24Sen. Ernst: In 2003, our f-16's were taken away from the sioux city, iowa, air national guard. With the air force's commitment when they kc receive the kc 135, they would have a new runway that would support the weight of the 135. That has not happened. 20 years and the milcon has not been there. Secretary meink, please take notes on this as well.
▶ 1:28:54Sen. Ernst: 20 years the air force has let this go. The fear in sioux city is that because we cannot support the 46, that we will never upgrade to the 46. We will lose our unit. I'm really concerned about this. This has gone on for way too long and I have talked to way too many people in the air force and the air national guard, and it is not happened. We are concentrating these tankers all in various regions.
▶ 1:29:27Sen. Ernst: They are concentrated. We need geographic disbursement. Let me talk to you a little bit about sioux city. And the history there and how proud we are of those units that have occupied this airfield. Let's just start by saying the name of the airfield is the colonel by day airfield. For those folks in the air force I don't know who colonel bud day is coming you need to go back and figure out your history.
▶ 1:29:57Sen. Ernst: This document is a sioux city native that was -- this gentleman was a sioux city native. I believe he is probably the only person in the air force to have received the cross. He grew up and he ended his career in sioux city. Other folks notable that are related to units that have crossed through sioux city, jimmy stewart -- famous actor. He is also a cousin to my great grandfather.
▶ 1:30:27Sen. Ernst: Lewis and perini known for the movie "unbroken." lt. Col. Kelly cook whose remains have never been returned from vietnam. These are all folks that are connected to this area. We have a proud history there. I would just like to know how many more times, gen.
▶ 1:30:47Sen. Ernst: Allvin and secretary meink, I have to bring this up in personal meetings in my office and in front of the committee to get a commitment to get the milcon done for this runway. Gen. Allvin?
▶ 1:31:01Gen. Allvin: Thank you for publicly acknowledging bud day. I'm sure there will be a lot of google searches.
▶ 1:31:11Sen. Ernst: I knew him. He is phenomenal.
▶ 1:31:15Gen. Allvin: We spoke about his two years ago and I said, yes, ma'am, we're going to do that we started working on the design. Last year we put the money in to start for 35% -- as you know, the milcon has to go through the design phase and get to certain maturation before it goes to compete for funding. 35% design. It is 65% design, which means I can now -- if it competes in the milcon prioritization with everything else, it wins.
▶ 1:31:44Gen. Allvin: If not, I have the opportunity to compete -- I could not do that until we got past the 35% design. We are now passing 35% design. I feel it my communications with you have been fairly consistent and we will continue that into the future.
▶ 1:31:58Sen. Ernst: But can we have a commitment this will be done?
▶ 1:31:59Gen. Allvin: You have my commitment I will continue to push on this. Yes, I think -- the key is about funding to be able to support it. The design work, it is eliminating the obstacles in our path to do it. 65% design.
▶ 1:32:18Sen. Ernst: Secretary meink?
▶ 1:32:19Sec. Meink: As he said, 65% design and can start working it into the ranking for milcon and once I see that, I will make sure I talk to about it.
▶ 1:32:30Sen. Ernst: I appreciate the commitment today in front of the public. We look forward to seeing this completed in the near future.
▶ 1:32:37Chair Wicker: Senator kelly.
▶ 1:32:40Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Gen. Allvin, last september, the air force activated the integrated capabilities command to integrate requirements and develop an emerging capabilities into modernize the force. The formation of this command is timely as the service moves toward the f 47. Gen.
▶ 1:33:08Sen. Kelly: Allvin, I'm interested in the 47 and how you see this new command, the integrated capabilities command supporting future development both for the 747 and the be 21 and anything beyond that.
▶ 1:33:21Gen. Allvin: We are now to the point where we have integrated capabilities command as a provisional status. It was part of the series of activities that we had paused and we have a secretary who can evaluate those and make sure we are on the right path for evolving net to where it needs to be. In his current instantiation, the division -- the value of the integrated capability's command as it doesn't develop the platform to be the best platform in the world. It understands what we're doing now is going through mission threats.
▶ 1:33:51Gen. Allvin: What does that capability have to integrate with? It has to integrate with the c3, the other capabilities, the crypto monetization -- all of those things.
▶ 1:34:02Sen. Kelly: Does it do integration with thecca's?
▶ 1:34:06Gen. Allvin: That is the value of it, it ensures the system integrates with the others to develop an operational outcome not just performance parameter. It will ensure that. It will also ensure as we move forward, some of the good ideas, we assure the good ideas meet divorce design not just make the platform better. If they make the platform better but they don't make a platform perform better across the whole mission, and it is probably not worth spending the money on.
▶ 1:34:34Gen. Allvin: It will help us also make better use of every dollar to the f47 and cca and b21 and everything that goes with it gets a better combat outcome.
▶ 1:34:46Sen. Kelly: Is a fully staffed at this point?
▶ 1:34:47Gen. Allvin: No. It is doing modest work. As we look toward the next level, it will take the sort of federated approach from some of the capability developing being done in langley and some in clarksdale and some in scott and put those together and say, what is one air force force design? That is its vision.
▶ 1:35:08Sen. Kelly: Gf software engineers to make sure software between platforms is integrated?
▶ 1:35:14Gen. Allvin: The value of setting it up like it is come the software engineers and technical experts, are tightly linked with the current office called the agile development office but they are the ones who take the good ideas from the operators -- technically feasible and also has one stop shopping for outside industry to come in and say, hey, I got a new design, I got a new product here. We can let them know, spin your dollars on it because that will be a part of our future design. It helps industry as well.
▶ 1:35:45Gen. Allvin: It is the smart software engineers working with our air force material command.
▶ 1:35:48Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Unrelated subject, message apartment continues to embrace multi-domain warfare, I'm concerned about the lack of training space available we can integrate all domains and we are dealing with airplanes that are flying faster and higher and air to air missiles that have a greater range, the stick is getting bigger, the ranges aren't getting bigger. We need cost effective for our pilots.
▶ 1:36:18Sen. Kelly: And the ability to actually engage in a contested ew environment. Last year at this hearing, we talked about opportunities to integrate the air force, army, marine corps training ranges in the state of arizona. Did you multi-domain operational and you have the ability to do longer runs.
▶ 1:36:42Sen. Kelly: Since then, in general, what steps have you taken to stitch together these training areas in the state of arizona to get better training for the joint force?
▶ 1:36:52Gen. Allvin: I would say we are still in the forming phase. Last year we had a lot of exercises like where we understood what the operational joint exercise would look like. We haven't yet looked at the stitching together -- your point was it was right last year and so right this year. There is the opportunity because the geography of arizona -- actually, new mexico as well.
▶ 1:37:17Sen. Kelly: We can go through the water, stitch these two together and then beyond that to the white sands missile range. And then you have a training range that I think is maybe unmatched -- maybe in alaska. Center for -- senator sullivan is here.
▶ 1:37:36Gen. Allvin: In order to do some of the long-range training, we are in the whiskey area so just over the ocean which limits us from geography. Getting together the multi-domain exercises to figure out where we are short and what we don't want to do synthetically we want to do it in the physical space, it is still --.
▶ 1:37:54Sen. Kelly: Conversations with the faa?
▶ 1:37:56Gen. Allvin: We need to get together with the army test the faa exactly, what is practical.
▶ 1:38:03Sen. Kelly: So you have had no conversations with the faa?
▶ 1:38:06Gen. Allvin: Not at the joint level. We want to stitch that together.
▶ 1:38:11Sen. Kelly: Can give me an update on this in a few months? Thank you.
▶ 1:38:14Chair Wicker: Senator cramer.
▶ 1:38:18Sen. Cramer: Thank you for being here and congratulations, Dr. meek, and finally getting the job for good. I hope you are sleeping occasionally. I will say after listening to senator ernst and senator peters get after you guys, I feel like I have been lazy. I will try to keep my cheerful demeanor here. I want to get right to something important, general saltzman.
▶ 1:38:52Sen. Cramer: I was reading about golden dome. I do a lot of that these days. I noticed two of our least favorite dictators in the world, xi jinping and vladimir putin, put out a joint statement worrying about the golden dome being "destabilizing effect." and suggesting that the united states might be leading toward weaponizing space.
▶ 1:39:17Sen. Cramer: Which is rich coming from those two guys. You our enemies have weapons in space that you know of? Space that you know of?
▶ 1:39:27Gen. Saltzman: Yes, senator, they do. We have observed the russians have performed some very aggressive on orbit capabilities in terms of plain matching, getting close to some of her most sensitive satellites and in aggressive ways. They have released what could be presumed to be kinetic kill vehicles we have watched on orbit. The prc has demonstrated the ability to use a grappling arm to grab a satellite and pull it out of its orbit and return it.
▶ 1:40:00Gen. Saltzman: All of these are try to capabilities that could be used as antisatellite technology.
▶ 1:40:03Sen. Cramer: So as is often the case, I find myself following senator king and agreeing with him with regard to her budget and maybe -- to your budget and maybe this is a dumb question but you adequately funded to meet this kind of a threat in space as well as obviously the rest of the world that you have to protect?
▶ 1:40:28Gen. Saltzman: It is about scale. I have often use the analogy it is like transforming the merchant marine into the navy. It is a lot of new equipment and training. There are new people. We can't just take what we had and presume we can gain space superiority with that equipment. That new equipment requires resources. That is where the disconnect comes I think in full funding.
▶ 1:40:56Chair Wicker: Your answer to that is that we are not adequately funded? Is that correct? Gen. Saltzman we are not adequately funded for the new missions I have been given.
▶ 1:41:10Sen. Cramer: Thank, chairman. Scale matters. If we have the world's greatest weapons but not enough to fight the enemy, we are not adequately funded. By the way, thank you for being so open about the issue come the shortcomings. We are here to help. We can't help if we don't know where we are short. You have been great this morning. Thank you. I'm going to skip over the sentinel stuff.
▶ 1:41:42Sen. Cramer: I will say I've been concerned about some of the rumors I've been hearing about a billion-dollar cut may be in priorities. I think she referenced something to that effect. I'm just going to not even ask -- we just need to do more. I guess the bottom line is, we need to do more to make sure we are not falling backwards anywhere. That we are projecting forward everywhere we can. Gen. Allvin, I will go to isr.
▶ 1:42:10Sen. Cramer: My concern with the air force, both retiring and in the case of -- some of our isr capability. Do you have enough mq9's to meet the current demand? I know there's never enough, but are you concerned? Should I be concerned about the population ofmq9's?
▶ 1:42:37Gen. Allvin: We have lost several in combat and operations. As it exists today, we do our a3 is working with the joint staff in understanding how to alter the force offering but as we continue to try to attract more, it becomes more more critical. I can probably give you little bit more at a higher level. It is getting to the point where we need to ensure every one of them is survivable as possible.
▶ 1:43:06Gen. Allvin: Some of the areas where we are hoping to improve -- as you are well aware, some things were looking to improve on our putting sort of the capability for the enhanced the architecture to be able to put that on the mq9. This is where I might make my pitch for marshland -- more funding flexibility. Right now it is a $70 million ask.
▶ 1:43:26Gen. Allvin: Because that is below the threshold of reprogramming, we are having to go through a longer process with us in congress to get that approved most of the more we can have that flexibility to be able to make -- accelerate the fielding of those proliferate leo architecture on those mq9's.
▶ 1:43:47Sen. Cramer: We have a lot to work out. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:43:50Chair Wicker: Senator warren, you made it by a matter of seconds. You are recognize.
▶ 1:43:59Sen. Warren: Thank you, Mr. chairman. We all want the air force to have the money it needs to keep us safe. We all want those funds to be spent as effectively and efficiently as possible. The air force's budget request was about $220 billion last year. And many of those aliens going to develop weapons -- billions going to develop weapon systems.
▶ 1:44:25Sen. Warren: Even then, contractors tried to withhold data rights, preventing service members from repairing new equipment and the air force is cell phones. Secretary meink, during her confirmation process, said in a contested logistics environment, "airmen will need to be authorized and empowered to manufacture parts and fix their equipment." I agree with you on this.
▶ 1:44:52Sen. Warren: When dod secures repair rights, that increases our battlefield readiness and it lowers costs. When tinker air force base needed to replace the pressure door handle for the c5 transport aircraft, the air force manufactured the part itself and saved 95% of the cost because it wasn't tripped up by contractor
▶ 1:45:23Sen. Warren: Restrictions. Mr. secretary, do you agree this type of major cost savings makes right to repair a strategic priority for the air force and for its budget? Sec. Meink: thank you. Yes, I agree with that. And that is something I've had discussions with the team on in the first couple of days. I think it is not only from a cost perspective, I think from a readiness perspective gen.
▶ 1:45:51Sen. Warren: Allvin has discussed multiple times -- both are effective with our ability to have more flexibility and how we do parts sustainment.
▶ 1:45:59Sen. Warren: Cost and readiness. So it is no surprise that new poll just released today found that over 70% of voters overwhelmingly favor congress passing a defense right to repair law. And americans know this is a big opportunity to save billions of dollars.
▶ 1:46:21Sen. Warren: Secretary driscoll is leading the way with the new army transformation initiative released earlier this month making it a standard for army contracts to include right repair from day one. But airmen, far from home, need to be able to fix their own equipment as well.
▶ 1:46:42Sen. Warren: They should not be waiting in some cases we know up to six months for a refurbished t38 trainer engine. Mr. secretary, should the air force adopt a service wide right to repair policy like the army's policy so we can get grounded jets back into the air faster?
▶ 1:47:04Sec. Meink: I'm not familiar with the details of what secretary driscoll proposed but the idea of having that flexibility, I fully support.
▶ 1:47:16Sen. Warren: I love hearing you like the idea but we have to put that idea into action. Right to repair is one important tool for the air force to protect its budget, but contractors will find any way they can to overcharge the military right up until the moment they get caught.
▶ 1:47:36Sen. Warren: Last year, dod's inspector general found boeing charge the air force 80 times the available commercial price for a soap dispenser during a c17 sustainment contract. That overcharge was found only through an investigation after the fact and sorted by happenstance.
▶ 1:48:02Sen. Warren: It makes you wonder what kind of other overcharges are going on I noticed. That is why the ig recommended the contracting officers be notified when a price for an item like a spare part increases over 25%. Mr. secretary, with the air force be in a better position to detect this kind of price gouging if you're contracting officers had to be notified when there is a price spike?
▶ 1:48:31Sec. Meink: Yes, more data would be helpful.
▶ 1:48:36Sen. Warren: Good. I am working with my colleagues across the aisle to get this price information into the hands of all of our contracting officers. But the air force needs to be updating its own policies as well. Because we all agree the air force is hundreds of billions of dollars should be spent efficiently to benefit our service members and our taxpayers, not just to benefit contractor executives.
▶ 1:49:05Sen. Warren: If we can get airmen the right to repair and contracting officers information they need to stop price gouging, the air force can start buying smarter service wide. I look forward to working with you and with you, Mr. chairman, and all of my colleagues on this committee to get it done.
▶ 1:49:21Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator. The senator from alaska. >> thank you. Gentlemen, thank you for your testimony. Mr. secretary, congratulations. We are excited to see you. I'm going to bring up this map again. This is our russian, chinese incursion map in alaska. We talk about defending the homeland. This is defending the homeland.
▶ 1:49:52Chair Wicker: We had another incursion in april. Some navy stuff going on with the russians was happening very recently. Mr. secretary, you have done these missions most of isn't that true?
▶ 1:50:11Sec. Meink: Yes, many, many years ago with f-15s.
▶ 1:50:16Sen. Sullivan: They are not easy. You probably have a take three or four times just to get out to the eez. It is a big state.
▶ 1:50:24Sec. Meink: A lot of airspace.
▶ 1:50:27Sen. Sullivan: During your hearing, you committed to three additional kc 130's, 135's to support the airmen during these great important missions. Can you give me a timeline for the rebaing of those aircraft to be part of the active affiliation in alaska where we need these tankers for sure?
▶ 1:50:54Sec. Meink: I'm going to call on my friend.
▶ 1:50:59Gen. Allvin: We are still going on the final three. The final three will be sourced out. That requires an overseas structure with the joint staff and osd. Most of the folks spend a lot of time in alaska during the support mission. It will be plus of 175 airmen as well. We want to ensure they also have the right housing.
▶ 1:51:26Gen. Allvin: As we've discussed several times about ensuring we have good off-base housing for them. Right now the overseas force structure change process is going on with osd and joint staff, so that is moving forward. That was triggered after last fall's housing analysis saying we believe now the community housing is satisfactory enough to be able to start moving families up there.
▶ 1:51:48Sen. Sullivan: What does that mean in terms of timeline? Do you have an estimate?
▶ 1:51:53Gen. Allvin: That is out of hours -- it depends on how fast it moves through the osd process.
▶ 1:52:00Sen. Sullivan: Let's get them moving. Like I said, I have been pressing this issue for 10 years. It makes strategic sense. It is not like some kind of gimme. This is real world missions that are great airmen are doing up in alaska all the time -- by the way, everyone thinks these are easy missions. When you're in an f-16 tank in four different times going over the arctic ocean in february in the middle of the night, you lose an engine, you are screwed. These are tough missions.
▶ 1:52:33Sen. Sullivan: Our great men and women you guys are in charge of doing such a great job doing it, but they make it look easy but they are not easy. Or tankers, more -- we all need it. These are frontline missions that can be dangerous. Real quick, this is a little bit of a broader issue but you talked earlier about strengthening our posture and opaque,. --inopaycom. We sure seem to be over concentrating on guam.
▶ 1:53:06Sen. Sullivan: Air force assets, navy assets. The numbers I have are between now and 2033 we might have up to $50 billion more in milcon on guam? My goodness. I think it is a lack of strategic administration of the pentagon. Do any of you have a view on that? Are we over concentrated on guam?
▶ 1:53:30Sen. Sullivan: Is andersen air force base going to take several missiles in the first days of conflict with china and we're going to be like, wait, where we having all the navy and all the air force andindopaycom on guam? That was a dumb idea. What are you thinking?
▶ 1:53:45Gen. Allvin: The key is right now for the air force, guam is not the ultimate destination of our indo-pacific posture. We are working on a base cluster. I think you've seen we have built out -- amazing story I could take with more time. Our concept is as we can build more resilience in some of those clusters go beyond guam -- as you said, the department of defense has invested a whole lot.
▶ 1:54:14Gen. Allvin: We believe in order to be more survivable, you can't just only defend and do robust defense on guam but we are actually pushing up into that second allen changes some of the base clusters.
▶ 1:54:26Sen. Sullivan: This committee has taken a hard look. Runways, hanger. Look at a map. That is about strategic terrain as it gets not just for the navy, but for the air force. I think it is something we need to look hard at in terms of being over concentrated on guam. I think the navy is. I think the air force is. I think in terms of our oversight, we need to get to the right mix. I agree with you, general, the air force has a good plan on dispersion of forces. But we need to do more on that.
▶ 1:54:56Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator slotkin.
▶ 1:55:01Sen. Slotkin: Thank you for being here. A couple of questions, secretary. Suffrage air force base, following on some of the questions from senator peters, I know that was a decision many of us worked hard over a decade to try to get and could not get. It breaks a lot of china to have our f-15's shop to replace our a10's. We are very happy about that decision. Can you commit to making sure it happens on time?
▶ 1:55:30Sen. Slotkin: We have an issue where we could lose a lot of airmen if our a10 pilots and crews go off -- allowed to go back into normal civilian life and then years later we get our f-15s. Can you commit the environment of studies, the pieces that have to go into place in order to have them arrive on time as the?
▶ 1:55:52Sec. Meink: We are working on not telling that plan. As we have detail, we will --.
▶ 1:56:03Sen. Slotkin: Thank you. The other issues related to the air force issue of pfas and forever chemicals, particularly in us go to edward smith air force base. The air force does not dispute over the past decade that it was the ofas from the firefighting foam on the base that contaminated local waters, lakes. Kids swim in those lakes. Waters drank by an entire community.
▶ 1:56:30Sen. Slotkin: Last year, the epa put a scientific standard on how much pfas you can have on water before it makes you sick. We were thrilled and the air force, to their credit, came in to action and said we will now begin taking interim measures to clean up pfas in michigan among other places. Last week, the administration reversed that decision. And now does not care about the health standards of pfas in our water.
▶ 1:56:56Sen. Slotkin: I'm wondering, will the where -- will the air force continue to take interim measures to clean up the water around the air force base?
▶ 1:57:02Sec. Meink: I'm not familiar with the decision referenced but the department will continue to work to make sure both our people and surrounding communities are prioritized and we will work to clean up and be transparent about it.
▶ 1:57:22Sen. Slotkin: For a decade we try to get the air force to move and they would not until last year. In the epa standards were again slid backwards, despite this the administration interest in making america healthy again. I guess that doesn't matter when it comes to forever chemicals in our water.
▶ 1:57:37Sen. Slotkin: I ask your help in committing to continuing those interim measures, they are gradual, not steep, but we need to hold the air force -- you have to clean up what you messed up for this community that cannot drink its water, cannot safely swim in its water.
▶ 1:57:55Sen. Slotkin: Let me just ask, we had a lot of debate and discussion about the gift of thei jet -- cut of inkjet for air force one. Has the country of cutter bank submitted a request to buy f35's and request to the pentagon? Mr.
▶ 1:58:21Sen. Slotkin: Secretary, that has been reported publicly they have submitted recently a request to buy f 35's?
▶ 1:58:28Sec. Meink: I'm not aware but I will take it for the record.
▶ 1:58:33Sen. Slotkin: We just had a four-star navy number two in the navy convicted yesterday of bribery for a very similar type of thing, pay for play. We give you a gift, we give you an opportunity, make things happen for us the pentagon. It was embarrassing to have a four star admiral convicted in court yesterday, highest ranking in american history.
▶ 1:58:58Sen. Slotkin: He ask is the president is moving to try and accept a gift of a jet, that we don't do something as stupid as and as obvious as paper play on selling qatar's f-35. I ask you to look at that issue. I yield back.
▶ 1:59:14Chair Wicker: Senator scott.
▶ 1:59:16Sen. Scott: Thank you to each of you for your service. The movers talk about homestead. As you know, we have russia, china, iran doing more and more in latin america. Cuba is nine miles away. We have china. All of them are doing bad things down there. Can you talk about the importance of homestead air force base and what you think the future of homestead air force base is?
▶ 1:59:46Gen. Allvin: Homestead has been a long time, very important base for the air force and the nation. Will continue to be a supportive community. They run a great mission down there. I believe homestead is one of those that you should be very proud of, the community and the mission that they conduct.
▶ 2:00:07Sen. Scott: You believe it will continue to be an important military asset?
▶ 2:00:11Sec. Meink: Yes, senator, I do.
▶ 2:00:14Sen. Scott: General saltzman, how important is our satellites were communications missile detection operations?
▶ 2:00:22Gen. Saltzman: Very important.
▶ 2:00:26Sen. Scott: The satellites we are dependent on, if china was able to just destroy a dozen or so and leave all the debris in space, how big of an impact would that have? S: would struggle in the pacific, be elsewhere.
▶ 2:00:47Sen. Scott: When systems are compromised, is harder to disable large satellite network?
▶ 2:00:52Gen. Saltzman: Indications are the more targets you have, disrupt or destroy in order to achieve a mission, the more resilient that architecture is.
▶ 2:01:01Sen. Scott: If there were smaller, that would be better for us, right?
▶ 2:01:05Gen. Saltzman: It would be more resilient.
▶ 2:01:10Sen. Scott: We face a lot of procurement delays like we do it seems like everything in the military is that impacting your ability to defend our country?
▶ 2:01:16Gen. Saltzman: The slower the capabilities delivered to the war fighter or come the less they can use them.
▶ 2:01:23Sen. Scott: Do you think we need to do more public-private partnerships where we have private companies willing to invest their own capital and scale up quicker than what we are doing?
▶ 2:01:32Gen. Saltzman: We have terminus efforts already trying to get as much irad industry investment in r&d to try to drop the technical risk associated with key platforms. There is a tremendous amount of investment but more is better I think in this area.
▶ 2:01:47Sen. Scott: Are using agencies like the space involvement agency to work with commercial players are ready to deliver quickly with the scale, speed, innovation we need to stay ahead of our adversaries and maintain peace through strength?
▶ 2:01:58Gen. Saltzman: We have substantial investments in the commercial sector to develop those technologies. The space of 11 agencies sole acquisition model, the strategy is about leveraging rapidly with commercial industries producing in order to go fast and put capabilities in the hands of our war fighters.
▶ 2:02:17Sen. Scott: Are you optimistic we will be able to afford to put satellite systems of that will be able to make sure that china is not able to destroy our ability to communicate or missile detection or any of these things?
▶ 2:02:29Gen. Saltzman: Resiliency is not cheap. We have a lot of architectures to redesign so they are more resilient. I think the space development agency is an example of where they are moving fast, we have the funding to put tranche two in orbit. That will give us an initial capability that demonstrates that kind of resiliency.
▶ 2:02:47Sen. Scott: Are there quite a few private company is willing to put their money at risk to try to put systems up that you can work with?
▶ 2:02:54Gen. Saltzman: I can't speak to what the risk tolerance is but I can say there's a great interest in the commercial sector to engage with the government.
▶ 2:03:01Sen. Scott: I want to thank each of you for your service.
▶ 2:03:04Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. >> I would like to thank secretary meink, gen. Allvin, general saltzman for testifying today for your service to our country. Gen. Allvin, thank you for taking the time to meet with me last week.
▶ 2:03:24Chair Wicker: I really appreciated our conversation ahead of this hearing and I'm going to continue the discussion we had with both you and secretary meink undocumented exposure to classified locations. I general kane's confirmation hearing, I raised the issue of documenting exposure and data mass locations with duty station and even its existence are classified. This is to ensure service members records are accurately reflect the service-connected injuries incurred at those sites.
▶ 2:03:56Chair Wicker: I've heard from constituents who have served such locations within nevada training range and believe they are exposed to radiation from our days of conducting explosive nuclear weapons testing. And in addition to toxins from burn pits which disposed classified ways. However dod does not classify the range is a place where exposure occurred despite the department of energy providing presumption of exposure for their personnel who served at these exact same locations within the range.
▶ 2:04:26Chair Wicker: Such as the test range and because -- these veterans can't even prove to the da they were ever actually stationed there. Imagine that. All of this prevented them from being able to receive the veterans benefits they deserve. Secretary meink and gen.
▶ 2:04:45Chair Wicker: Allvin come up a little more on this so if you would be brief, we work with me to ensure this committee , ensure the department of air force provides a presumptive exposure at relevant air force locations and where the department of energy has done so for their personnel, we want to ensure those who serve their currently serving in these sites receive sufficient documentation to support their health related claims all while being able to protect the classified nature of their service.
▶ 2:05:14Sec. Meink: We take our health of our workforce seriously and we need to deal with this issue. >> thank you. The department of energy? >> what I need to make sure on the air force side is if it is determined that airman, past or present, are qualified for those, they shouldn't be
▶ 2:05:46Sec. Meink: Restricted from that because of the process. The process of being the data mask.
▶ 2:05:51Sen. Rosen: Iva solution. Specifically, will you ensure, but of you, your staff meets with my staff and the committee staff in the next few weeks so we can ensure -- correct this issue in the fy 26 ndaa? We think there is a fix for this.
▶ 2:06:08Gen. Allvin: I will defer to my secretary but I think this is something -- that part is easily done to understand once they are deemed qualified, we need to ensure our process does restrict them because of --.
▶ 2:06:21Sen. Rosen: There is a template the doe has been using for years. I want to talk a little bit about cca's in the future of crete. Gen. Allvin, the arrival of experiment operations unit at creech air force base in the future department -- deployment of the aircraft cca, to be permanently based at creech which I'm hopeful for, I'm curious what investments will be made to address housing deficiencies and support
▶ 2:06:51Sen. Rosen: Services in the area? Creech is remote, limited housing, limited services nearby. An airman had to commute so many miles to the base from where they live and even longer for those folks who have kids that have to drop them off at daycare, drive an hour to work. It is on the opposite -- the basis on the opposite end of the las vegas valey las vegas valeley. What does the future of the base infrastructure look like? How can we help support our personnel there?
▶ 2:07:22Gen. Allvin: Thank you, we are very excited about the collaborative, and what it means for the future of air force. Creech is natural not only because of the community support but also because of the range. To your point, we need to ensure a place that can already be challenging for the airman as we add more in, we need to make sure there were -- will care.
▶ 2:08:00Gen. Allvin: Between the rpa who now operate and what that might mean in the future for cca, we need to make sure we have robust capability. The experimental operations will also be able to give us a sense of how many we think long-term. We are uncovering new ground.
▶ 2:08:22Gen. Allvin: Between the site activation task force in the first months and years of the experiment to operation, we should understand a bracket about what it really takes -- we are committed.
▶ 2:08:32Sen. Rosen: I want to talk about infrastructure adaptations, airspace control, and electromagnetic spectrum availability. Thank you.
▶ 2:08:41Chair Wicker: Senator good morning. The army just released its transition to prepare for future threats and budgets. This is for all three of you if you want to answer kind of a three-part question. Does this have any impact on your organization? Do you anticipate similar initiatives in your organization? When and what will they look like?
▶ 2:09:08Gen. Saltzman: There are some connections. I have been charged by congress to be the force design architect for space for the armed forces and so is the army goes through its transformation to figure out exactly how this use capability to protect its organic forces, we will be connected to that as well to make sure we're sharing technology, not being redundant where we don't need to be so there will be an overarching aspect to that. In a broader sense, we are using this year to build the objective force of the space for us.
▶ 2:09:37Gen. Saltzman: What do we need to look like in the next 10, 15 years and how that connect to the other services to make sure all of the joint force requirements are met?
▶ 2:09:44Sen. Tuberville: Just a communication work pretty well?
▶ 2:09:48Gen. Saltzman: Yes, sir. We collaborate through jroc. We do it at the working group level all the way up to the four-star generals.
▶ 2:10:00Sen. Tuberville: Mr. secretary, what is your thought?
▶ 2:10:03Sec. Meink: First off, I have not had a chance to read the transition play in detail. There is a lot of connectivity. In many cases, but the space force delivers and the air force delivers for targeting critical for the army as it is for the detachment force.
▶ 2:10:31Sen. Tuberville: If anybody has to switch gears, it has to be you guys from what we have seen in the things china is doing. General, your thoughts?
▶ 2:10:39Gen. Allvin: Very well aligned. I think is the army goes through the transformation initiative, as with all the services, we need to make sure we don't do it in a vacuum, understanding is the army transforms, we will be dependent on them and them on us for base resiliency and the indo-pacific. As I look to us to streamline some of the ways to do acquisition, consistent with some of the basic tenets of the act.
▶ 2:11:03Gen. Allvin: We want to make sure we are integrated and I think where we have been undergoing a bit of that ourselves with the way we are developing our new force design not only what we are building but how we are building it. I think having those common practices and the collaboration between the services is going to be key going forward.
▶ 2:11:23Sen. Tuberville: Since you are on a roll, I'll stay with you. We will go back to the kc 46. I think we have availability around 90. Is that correct?
▶ 2:11:33Gen. Allvin: 89 on the ramp.
▶ 2:11:38Sen. Tuberville: What is the availability? Since they are new. We have heard the problems they are having up and down in some are in and out of service. What is her availability?
▶ 2:11:49Gen. Allvin: I knew I was going to be asked. I have it right here. The kc 46 availability right now is just at 51%. Sen. seand that includes those that are in the maintenance.
▶ 2:12:10Gen. Allvin: That is done a number we are proud of but there are several issues that we have been working through with billing to help ensure -- boeing to help ensure we have the jets right off the ramp toward the production line. There are still some deficiency reports we are sorting through with the wing. Having to do with the upgraded remote visualization system and drain lines and no sort of things. But right now the 52%.
▶ 2:12:37Sen. Tuberville: Does not have the capability we need for the indo-pacific in terms of what it can carry comedy rain?
▶ 2:12:45Gen. Allvin: It does. It is actually quite a capable platform as it is available. One thing we are looking out into the future is not just the amount of gas it carries but as we go forward into the next decade or so, we need to ensure we enhance their survivability, whether that be with onboard systems or offboard support.
▶ 2:13:08Gen. Allvin: Going into the future, not just the tyranny of distance which is extent but it will also be the tyranny of operating consistently in a more contested environment. As we move forward into the next generation refueling system examination, we are looking what the next capabilities will be whether it is a new platform or a more defensive systems on the current character platform.
▶ 2:13:32Sen. Tuberville: So we are looking for new capabilities not just thinking gen. Allvin kc -- thinking kc will be the solution.
▶ 2:13:40Gen. Allvin: Recapitalization of the kc 135, average 135 age is older than me. 63-year-old average jet is not something we want to continue to try to discover new parts that break. In the immediate future, capacity and capability of the kc 46 is sufficient and as we are looking for long-term, we want to make sure the next couple of decades, we can have more survivable capability.
▶ 2:14:08Sen. Tuberville: I had the opportunity to fly around the world in a kc 135 with a bunch of other coaches at one time and damn near froze to death.
▶ 2:14:17Gen. Allvin: Did you get to refuel?
▶ 2:14:21Sen. Tuberville: We did. Antiquated is my explanation for that. Thank you.
▶ 2:14:30Chair Wicker: Gen. Allvin, don't sell yourself short at age 63. Senator gillibrand.
▶ 2:14:38Sen. Gillibrand: The space force nro from nj are working to establish the policies and procedures that will guide the dod's use of space-based technical isr t. Now that your secretary, what is your assessment of this progress and do you believe -- what you believe must still be resolved?
▶ 2:14:58Sec. Meink: I think at a high level, the agreement on how we're are going to allocate resources and allow for commanders to task and get with -- I'm talking about the combat commanders, that is all laid flat now. I think the devil is in the details. How you actually do that. We're just starting to feel capability now.
▶ 2:15:25Sec. Meink: And starting to do experiment tatian with that now on the fueling tools to allow that to happen. Obvious still a lot of work to go but I think there's been great progress made. And the fact we already have systems we can start doing exercising and support pay, and other theaters. Any additional comments?
▶ 2:15:53Sec. Meink: It --
▶ 2:15:59Gen. Saltzman: It is intended to complement with the intelligence community and nj provide. We don't want to pay for imagery twice. I hope later this week to be able to sign a memorandum of understanding that alan says procedures and will be in a much better place.
▶ 2:16:28Gen. Saltzman: Seven gillibrand last week and the testimony before the house armed services committee it was revealed that space force will lose 10% of its civilian workforce for the services by minute counts should be growing. How will this loss of the civilian effect the space force mission?
▶ 2:16:45Gen. Saltzman: We rely heavily on our -- 10% although the raw numbers might be kind of small, 2% is a large hit will stop we use a lot in the acquisition of our systems which is a critical capability we have ranked.
▶ 2:17:06Gen. Saltzman: I am worried about replacing that level of expertise in the near term as we try to resolve it and make sure we have a good workforce doing that acquisition work.
▶ 2:17:17Sen. Gillibrand: We have talked about the cyber academy and how important it is to train young people to do some of the civilian jobs and to make sure they can aspire to be in the space force and aspired to be in the dod in different capacities as civilians.
▶ 2:17:33Sen. Gillibrand: We have heard recent reports that because of the hiring freeze that these young service -- young graduates from the cyber academy aren't able to get the jobs they need to enter into space force, nro -- not nga, that is national governors association. Yes, nga, are unable to do that. Do you have any insight into what we can do to unstick that pipeline we are so desperate to try to grow? Gen.
▶ 2:18:02Sen. Gillibrand: Saltzman: we were in a period of managed growth. The civilian workforce by the end of 2025 was supposed to be almost 1000 larger than it will end up being. That is part of not just the incentives we have given for people to resign and retire early, we have also been kind of stopped the growth we had planned to accomplish these missions and separate offense is a perfect example of one of those missions that we have suspended hiring until we figure out exactly what the size of the workforce is going to be and
▶ 2:18:33Sen. Gillibrand: Then we will rebalance the force . Cyber is not going to go away. We need to make sure we are recruiting those people because that is a skill set we desperately need.
▶ 2:18:42Sen. Gillibrand: General, do you know how long it will take to finish the assessment of the numbers of who you have and what you have an rebalancing the force, how long that might take? One of the challenges we created the cyber academy to address is that onboarding took so long for organizations like nro or cia or other capacities that rely on cyber-heavy skill sets that we lose these extraordinarily gifted young people to the private sector.
▶ 2:19:11Sen. Gillibrand: We have created the cyber academy specifically to ramp them on to public service. There is an urgency and if you have any estimate in times or ways that you would suggest the administration that we could maybe surge resources to get this done sooner than later?
▶ 2:19:27Gen. Saltzman: I was proud of how quickly we were able to onboard civilians. The dod is really looking at what the size of the civilian workforce is. As those incentives to reshape the workforce affect the space force, I'm not sure exactly where we will end up, what our final size will be. As soon as I understand what that size is, we will reallocate the civilian workforce is necessary.
▶ 2:19:54Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you.
▶ 2:19:54Chair Wicker: Senator budd. You are recognized and you have the gavel for five minutes.
▶ 2:20:03Sen. Budd: Thank you all for being here. I want to thank you in for your leadership, general gen. Allvin: met with communicating the need for more air force. We received the airport force -- the plane that lays out to sustain and recapitalize.
▶ 2:20:26Sen. Budd: The plan goes out to 2035 and hinges on production and procurement assumptions over the next 10 years. In that sense, how important are the fodder production lines and stable funding of those lines in your effort to modernize the fleet? >> they are critical. That stable funding helps us not only understand how to develop the pipeline where they're going to be stationed, the whole thing is critical.
▶ 2:20:54Sen. Budd: One thing that stuck out to me as the arrival of the f-35's at heath airbase. Once there up and running come two strike eagle c1 has a decision been made on where those aircraft will end up? >> when we are looking at the right place to have them land, those have the newer engines in them versus the 220 engines.
▶ 2:21:27Sen. Budd: We are looking very closely at the opportunity because seymour johnson will be critical to the community as far as the training unit and operational unit, that certainly is an attractive landing spot. We have made the final decision but it is pretty attractive.
▶ 2:21:47Sen. Budd: It is home to the oldest strike eagles in the fleet. Does the return of those jets create flexibility for managing the f-15 fleet and keeping those missions alive? >> it absolutely does.
▶ 2:22:05Sen. Budd: If you were to divest those oldest jets at seymour johnson does that make it easier to sustain the combat and training missions? >> it absolutely does.
▶ 2:22:22Sen. Budd: I want to be supportive. If there's common sense decisions that are held up by technicalities or factors outside of your control I want to hear about it and work with all of you on that. Congratulations on your new role , your swearing-in. What could you tell us about the plan to reoptimize the air force?
▶ 2:22:45Sen. Budd: >> I think it is kind of as I mentioned there are two things we have to look at, the near term in the pacific theater and what we need to do there. We talked about that. We have more capability out there and dispersing that capability in the near term. That is something we have to worry about at the same time.
▶ 2:23:17Sen. Budd: To push deeper and have more capability. One of the things that we talk a little bit more about, it is modernization. It's a new mission that we are not just modernizing. We are creating new missions and that has to be done.
▶ 2:23:45Sen. Budd: Those capabilities, those new missions will be critical both in the golden dome for america and in that competition with china. It is a mix of both of those things. It is maintaining readiness. Getting sure modernization missions were creating, that will be a focus of mine.
▶ 2:24:14Sen. Budd: I'm interested in the deployable combat wing concept where it makes sense for a wing to train its unit and deploy and fight together as one of the first deployable combat wings interested in what this means for seymour johnson. Will additional airmen needed to be stationed there? >> yes. To make sure we have sequestered those and train how they may have to fight.
▶ 2:24:44Sen. Budd: 200 folks were airmen coming in. Sort of an advance team to go and look and ensure everything is taken care of with the ability to do all sorts of things. When we put out the call for airmen, we flooded the zone. There's a lot very excited about this concept.
▶ 2:25:11Sen. Budd: I think seymour johnson will be the great recipient and leading the charge going forward. >> before I recognize senator duckworth, let's say this, we will get to everybody.
▶ 2:25:37Sen. Budd: We will reconvene in room 217 at 12:25. People should be advised and staff members should be advised. Senator duckworth.
▶ 2:25:57Sen. Duckworth: Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Senator hirono touched on the gift plane, the bipartisan concern with today's hearing simply underscores how bizarre and disturbing it was to watch president trump proudly defend his decision to create at the very least the pathetic appearance that our commander-in-chief could be bought by mli -- an ally.
▶ 2:26:30Sen. Duckworth: At the luxury palace in the sky. That doesn't address the outrageous reality far from saving money this unconstitutional action not only cost our nation its dignity but will force taxpayers to raise $1 billion in taxpayer dollars to overhaul this particular aircraft we currently have not one but two fully operational air force aircraft.
▶ 2:26:55Sen. Duckworth: I wrote a letter to you last week with the security risks involved in the unconstitutional proposal to accept a $400 million luxury aircraft and retrofit it to service the airport environment. I look forward to hearing from you. What the air force has been directed to do to support this. I have some questions for you today.
▶ 2:27:21Sen. Duckworth: Any platform used for presidential travel must be fully secure, survivable, capable of supporting uninterrupted command and control including in the event of a nuclear crisis. This is about ensuring presidential protection, that is very important. This is about our national security and protecting all americans or if he is out of contact during a moment of crisis.
▶ 2:27:52Sen. Duckworth: Do you concur the upgrades required for a foreign provided plane would be significant? >> thanks for the question. The secretary of defense has directed the air force to basically start planning a modified aircraft.
▶ 2:28:11Sen. Duckworth: That is not my question. >> we will have to look at all of these issues in the modifications.
▶ 2:28:23Sen. Duckworth: Would you say to upgrade a foreign aircraft would cigna -- require significant modification? >> I align myself with the secretary's opinion.
▶ 2:28:37Sen. Duckworth: That is not my question. Do you concur would take significant modifications to take a civilian 747 and upgraded to air force one status? >> any civilian aircraft will take significant modifications.
▶ 2:29:03Sen. Duckworth: Of president trump converts his trip -- plane to a hardened air force one, I wonder about the pressures you might be under to cut corners on operational security. I am seeing press reports that requirements have been loosened to other boeing 740 seven aides intended to modernize air force one fleet. The taxpayers have already been paying for this delivery.
▶ 2:29:28Sen. Duckworth: Could I have your commitment that you work advise it -- will advise the president around cutting corners or reducing requirements on operational security standards for any aircraft to be used as air force one? >> I'm not aware of any requirements. I'm not aware of any requirement changes to the current program. As we lay out the plan we will make sure we do what is necessary.
▶ 2:29:57Sen. Duckworth: Do I have your commitment you will advise the president not to reduce any requirements that will lower operational security for any aircraft to be used as air force one? >> I will be quite clear and discuss that with the secretary as necessary if we feel there is any threats that we are unable to address.
▶ 2:30:21Sen. Duckworth: I urge you not to let this distraction, and it is a distraction that we would otherwise support the aircraft under contract and paid for by american taxpayers in a manner consistent with our security standards to protect air force one from compromise or destruction. I yield back. >> thank.
▶ 2:30:45Sen. Schmitt: The way joe biden designated qatar as a major non-nato ally, here we are. I want to ask you a couple of questions about the changing on the battlefield, the use of drones, unmannedupport. There's a lot of conversation about that being for fifth-generation and sixth generation platforms.
▶ 2:31:18Sen. Schmitt: Will cca be able to integrate in your view 4.5 generation platforms like that, is that something you contemplate? >> the threshold that we are looking at right now, two of them with the f and f-22.
▶ 2:31:46Sen. Schmitt: We look at the integration challenges to go back with the fourth and fifth. The more we could, the better. As soon as we start the air force, the better off we will be as far as cost exchange ratios as well as better combat capability.
▶ 2:32:07Sen. Schmitt: We have heard a bunch of times the role of legacy they have played in recent memory. It is still very important. There is a balancing act. The 747 is the future. We have these legacy platforms. Would you agree they still play a very important role? >> yes.
▶ 2:32:41Sen. Schmitt: It has been demonstrated time and time again that those platforms are very effective and provide combat capability. There are areas where they are challenged. That doesn't mean they provide risk capability.
▶ 2:33:01Sen. Schmitt: It is somewhat parochial at white manor air force base, it is obviously on its way. We have the a-10 being phased out. That is coming pretty quickly now. The f-15 could be a suitable bridge. As a follow up mission there.
▶ 2:33:29Sen. Schmitt: >> yes, I think that is the location with competing for future fighters. >> I do agree with that. >> I'm really in close contact as the commander, looking at opportunities for staying in the global strike community, how many, specifically to the a-10,
▶ 2:34:00Sen. Schmitt: More resources available is where we might be able to -- we are air force. We might be able to pursue. We will have more conversations about this, disappointed that the 139 airlift wing did not get the c-130j.
▶ 2:34:29Sen. Schmitt: They do ironically do the training for -- when the country of india comes in, they do the training but do not have the c130j. I will not put you on the spot right now on this but we thought it was going to happen. Will you commit to working with me to make sure we actually land that plane? >> 100%.
▶ 2:35:01Sen. Schmitt: We could provide you an understanding of what the areas were, what competed well and what did not compete well. The definition to the candidate location, to the preferred location. To understand what some of those discriminate areas were. If there's something that might make this location more competitive that is what it might be.
▶ 2:35:25Sen. Schmitt: I look forward to doing that again. We took those comments to heart. Thanks for your service.
▶ 2:35:32Sen. Banks: I wasn't going to ask about this but the dumbing down of the conversation with air force one from qatar deserve some more attention. Could you talk about whether it's a domestically made aircraft or an aircraft that is gifted to us from qatar, wherever that might come from there might be major security protocols, is that correct?
▶ 2:36:03Sen. Banks: >> yes, if it is possible because of any time we are talking about things having to deal with the security of the commander-in-chief, we do that in the closed session.
▶ 2:36:18Sen. Banks: The public deserves to know major security protocols will happen no matter where the plane comes from. The public could be assured that is the case. They will not allow the president of the united states that is insecure. >> we will comply with the requirements for the security and all of those given to us by the white house.
▶ 2:36:44Sen. Banks: Could you talk about how important the international guard and the air force are with what kind of goals we have over the next four years to strengthen those important institutions? >> I'd be happy to. This airplane was the one we were talking about here. Just like the platforms are.
▶ 2:37:12Sen. Banks: With respect to the international guards, I have a long history of working in that environment. I think it is critical across-the-board. Additional aircraft were being modernized within the guard reserve force or new aircraft were being brought in.
▶ 2:37:38Sen. Banks: It has always been and will continue to be a key part of the department of the air force strength and combat capability. There's a lot of transition going on. >> in accordance with the ndaa the transfer of space capabilities fall under the space force and we are working all the planning. Those are critical.
▶ 2:38:09Sen. Banks: Work is being done in the reserve in the international guard. It is critical.
▶ 2:38:14Sen. Banks: The president came to the midwest last month and spoke at silver ridge base. He said " the previous administration was willing to surrender international guard fighter units across the country by retiring aircraft that were not being replaced.
▶ 2:38:36Sen. Banks: Under the trump administration we are correcting that injustice." could you talk about the president's direction on the need to invest more in these international guard fighter units? Whether it is michigan, indiana, across the country, talk about what it looks like? >> that and many of the president's comments kind of reiterate his perspective on the importance of bringing more air combat power into the service.
▶ 2:39:07Sen. Banks: I think as we bring more of those capability in and build out more aircraft in the active units and reserve units that will be critical to get those platforms.
▶ 2:39:28Sen. Banks: As we see this investment, what should air guard units around the country be doing at the moment to prepare? Even though there might be a transition to the f-15 in michigan or f-16 in indiana, what does an international guard base need to do down the road?
▶ 2:39:49Sen. Banks: >> the short answer to that is really what they have been doing to ensure maintaining the quality of their aircrew, maintenance, support that has made them an integral part of our ability to deploy for the last quarter century. Working as a total force, we are a total force. They continue integrating.
▶ 2:40:19Sen. Banks: The international guard is integrating to our combat scheme. Much like the air force reserves , they are right along with the rest of the air force. We will have a more balanced and even approach to modernize the air force. >> this concludes what I will say has been a very informative opening portion of today's hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony.
▶ 2:40:47Sen. Banks: Any questions will be due to the committee in two business days. We will commence the closed portion of this hearing in senate security at 12:25.