▶ 0:14:31Chair Capito: Good morning, everybody. And I would like to call this hearing to order and thank everybody for being here. It is a busy day on capitol hill, as you all know. Wednesdays are exceedingly busy and this one is no exception to that.
▶ 0:14:48Chair Capito: At this hearing we will consider the president's nomination of katherine scarlett to serve as chairman of the council on environmental quality and jeffrey hall for assistant administrator of the environmental protection agency, so thank you both for your willingness to serve. Want to give a special welcome to katherine's family. She and I worked together. Thank you for joining us.
▶ 0:15:17Chair Capito: I know jeffrey has his parents and his wife here with him today, so thank you all for coming and being supportive. Established by the national environmental policy act, also known as nepa, the ceq is part of the executive office of the president. The agency is preparing the responsible for advising federal agencies on the implementation of nepa as well as developing and recommending environmental policies to the president.
▶ 0:15:48Chair Capito: Katherine is very well qualified to lead ceq. In her current role as ceq's chief of staff, katherine has implement the bipartisan environmental response ability act and shared with the court compliance.
▶ 0:16:09Chair Capito: She led efforts to modernize processes through president trump's permitting technology action plan recently launching the ce exploring which -- explorer which allows edification of more than 2000 categorical exclusions established federal agencies. During the time of the first trump administration, katherine served in senior roles at ceq and also at the federal improvement council.
▶ 0:16:40Chair Capito: In her time in the executive branch, she served on my staff at epw, playing a key role in shaping bipartisan provisions in the infra structure investment and jobs act, economic developer and reauthorization act, in the americas conservation enhancement act. So thank you for that. Ranking member whitehouse and I are diligently working on bipartisan legislation to reform the environmental review and permitting process for all projects.
▶ 0:17:10Chair Capito: I am hoping we can get a bill on the president's desk for his signature, and when we do, I am confident it will be implemented faithfully under katherine's leadership at ceq. Today, we will also hear from jeffrey hall. Thank you for being here. Trump's nominee to the epa.
▶ 0:17:30Chair Capito: They work with nepa regional offices and other federal agencies to promote regulatory compliance and enforce the nation's environmental laws and regulations. The office targets the most serious water, air, and chemical pollution violations under the law, such as the clean water act, the clean air act, and the toxic substance control act.
▶ 0:17:55Chair Capito: In carrying out the epa statutory authority, it must also operate within the confines of our federal very mental laws, not invent novel violations to penalize regulated entities. The previous administration placed in outsize emphasis on penalizing regulated entities rather than working with good-faith actors in the regulated community to ensure compliance. Mr.
▶ 0:18:19Chair Capito: Hall be tasked with striking the right balance between the agency's efforts to encourage compliance with our environmental laws and targeting the entities flaunting those laws to ensure americans have clean air maclean water, and clean land -- clean air, clean water, and clean land. He has expertise to effectively lead this office.
▶ 0:18:41Chair Capito: He has worked as a litigator, prosecutor, and legal adviser representing federal agencies, corporations, and individuals in a wide variety of litigation in both criminal and civil enforcement procedures. Other forward to hearing how Mr. hall will navigate the agency's enforcement priorities today. With that, I will now recognize our ranking member, senator whitehouse, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:19:05Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you, chairman. As president continues his unchecked parade of corruption, today we consider nominees for positions at the environmental protection agency and the white house council on environmental quality.
▶ 0:19:19Sen. Whitehouse: I have said before and will say again, as the epa lays waste to long-standing science-based regulations, dismantles the agency, and otherwise betrays its commitment to the american people to protect clean air and clean water, every single nominee for epa meretz a healthy dose of skepticism. Jeffrey hall is being nominated for a post for the job in theory to enforce the law against major polluters.
▶ 0:19:47Sen. Whitehouse: In this administration, the intent seems to have no one policing the polluters, no accountability for polluters, no accountability for failing to keep within air or water permit limits, no accountability for even failing to get a permit in the first place.
▶ 0:20:02Sen. Whitehouse: That is how you nullify a body, without having to go through the procedure to rollback every permit or standard ongoing through and appealing the underlying statute. As proposed by project 2025, dismantling epa's office of enforcement and compliance assurance.
▶ 0:20:27Sen. Whitehouse: That office in theory works with epa regional offices, state, rebel governments, and the department of justice to hold polluters accountable. And helps seek justice for gulf coast communities after the bp deepwater horizon disaster, secured billions for consumers after the volkswagen diesel gate scandal, and won exams for residents of east palestine residents of east pale palestine, ohio, following the train derailment.
▶ 0:20:57Sen. Whitehouse: Polluters flout federal pollution laws, endanger workers, contaminate our air and drinking water or dump hazardous waste. Oeca should work around the clock to make things right and prevent the worst incidents from happening in the first place.
▶ 0:21:19Sen. Whitehouse: In short, whoever is leading oeca should be armed and ready with knowledge of our environmental laws, expertise to enforce them, and commitment to serving the american people. Oeca should definitely not be led by someone eager to bend the knee to the biggest polluters. Mr. hall is neither the serious nor experience to lead. His bio mentioned environmental enforcement matters zero times.
▶ 0:21:50Sen. Whitehouse: It is not clear how much he worked in environmental law at all. Two of his seven years at the doj were where he was appointed as contact for the religious liberty task force during the first trump administration. Most of his time at doj was spent on the civil division or a brief assignments to other divisions including just seven months in the division that works with oeca, the environment and natural resources division. Mr.
▶ 0:22:15Sen. Whitehouse: Hall then cofounded a logging firm focused on defeating statutory protections meant to guarantee clean air and clean water, seeking to limit epa's authority under the clean air act, and getting clean house -- greenhouse gas emissions. Earlier this year, Mr. hall became acting assistant administrator of oeca and now senior advisor.
▶ 0:22:42Sen. Whitehouse: The actions he has taken already to just he intends to make it easier for the worst polluters to pollute. The already announced the office would "no longer focus on methane emissions from oil and gas facilities" and that any progress enforcement actions would need to go through him for proceeding -- before proceeding, a massive handout to methane polluters.
▶ 0:23:04Sen. Whitehouse: He also into doubt protections from coal ash storage, making it easier for coal plants,: easier for coal plants, coal fueled plans. Epa has already walked back three significant enforcement actions.
▶ 0:23:24Sen. Whitehouse: In june 2025, epa withdrew its lawsuit against the geo group, a major private prison contractor despite previously signing over 1000 violations of federal insecticide violations at one of its facilities. The case sought nearly $4 million in penalties for the improper use of ataxic dixon fronted -- a toxic disinfectant which in some cases were sprayed directly on detainees.
▶ 0:23:52Sen. Whitehouse: It is directly a trump donor and had formerly retain current attorney general pam bondi as its registered lobbyist. In march 2025, a week before trial was scheduled to begin, epa dismissed a clean air act lawsuit against a manufacturing facility in louisiana's cancer alley. Mr.
▶ 0:24:17Sen. Whitehouse: Hall and the trump administration dismissed the case evidently because combating cancer-causing emissions in poor communities constitute "radical d.e.I." and more recently, epa attempted to unwind a $150 million settlement for a river superfund cleanup though a judge put a stop to those shenanigans.
▶ 0:24:39Sen. Whitehouse: The settlement, which was negotiated for a decade, was entered over the objection of the two largest polluters of the site, including one of a handful of oil and gas companies present at a mar-a-lago meeting where then candidate trump offered the fossil fuel industry favors in administrative and regulatory policies in exchange for campaign cash. Mr.
▶ 0:25:05Sen. Whitehouse: Hall's actions are particularly troubling in view of epa's plan to cut to an reorganization of oeca. According to epa's fy 25 budget request, it is seeking to cut its budget for criminal enforcement by 49%, civil enforcement by 30%, and compliance monitoring by 35%.
▶ 0:25:27Sen. Whitehouse: Meanwhile, in the justice department's fy 26 budget request, doj leadership opposed cutting 59 attorneys, helping toxic polluters by stripping the epa of its doj lawyers. The effects are already being felt.
▶ 0:25:45Sen. Whitehouse: Epa and doj have already brought three judicial enforcement cases in federal court since january 20, putting it on aps to file maybe seven by the end of the fiscal year. By comparison, even the first trump administration filed 80 civil and judicial enforcement complaints and opened 115 environmental crime cases during the 2017 fiscal year.
▶ 0:26:11Sen. Whitehouse: Appointing a maga zealot to run an office as important as oeca only makes sense if your plan is to torpedo that office from within. I hope Mr. hall and his position can convince me I am wrong, but you can understand why recent history leaves me very skeptical. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:26:32Chair Capito: All right. Thank you, senator whitehouse. I am going to do a brief introduction of the nominees, swear you in, and we will have her statements. As I mentioned in my open statement that opening statement, -- as I mentioned in my opening statement katherine scarlett before returning to ceq was a senior staff member of mine on this committee and was a skilled staffer handling permitting nepa, wildlife, and economic development issues along with educating this
▶ 0:27:02Chair Capito: Senator here, which is no small task. She brings a wealth of experience and knowledge to ceq through her many years in both the executive and the legislative branches, so it is nice to have you back and have you before us. Our second nominee under consideration this morning is jeffrey hall, nominated to be assistant administered are of epa's office of enforcement and compliance assurance. Mr. hall is currently a senior advisor at the epa under the prime minister.
▶ 0:27:29Chair Capito: Before that, he was a trial attorney for the department of justice. He has litigated every level of the judiciary with a wide variety of issues, and we welcome you and are glad to have you. Before we go to opening statements from the nominees, I will now administer the oath and sworn statements. Both rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony were are about to get to this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so hope you got?
▶ 0:28:01Chair Capito: Let the record show that witnesses have answered in the affirmative, so we will now hear from the nominees. Thank you. Katherine, when you are ready, please proceed with your opening statement.
▶ 0:28:11Ms. Scarlett: Good morning, chairman capito, ranking member whitehouse, and members of the wh committee. I am honored to appear before you today as president trump's nominee for chairman of the council on environmental quality. I would like to thank my husband and parents. I also want to thank my two children, rachel and jack, who after much debate and failed practice we decided to leave at daycare today.
▶ 0:28:40Ms. Scarlett: From a young age, I have an privileged to experience this nation's vast beauty from growing up playing baseball in ohio, traveling coast-to-coast with my college marching band, to honeymooning in the nation's breathtaking national parks in utah, and now watching our husband -- watching my husband teach our children to set crab traps. Magnificent national parks, rivers, mountains, and coastlines.
▶ 0:29:09Ms. Scarlett: I have written a variety of roles focusing on environmental policy and permitting. My first role at ceq as special assistant marked my entry into public service, and ever since then I have remained dedicated to serving the american people. I moved into a policy role at ceq in 2018 deputy associate director for infrastructure. In 2020, I joined the permitting counsel as its chief of staff.
▶ 0:29:35Ms. Scarlett: For four years I have had the honor is working as professional staffer this committee for taking on my current role as ceq chief of staff. For this role comes in large part from my experience at this committee. In those four years, I worked on a number of bipartisan bills that became law, including the surface transportation reauthorization of economic developer in reauthorization, and america's conservation enhancement act of 2024. Epw has a reputation for working in bipartisan manner in passing legislation unanimously out of committee.
▶ 0:30:06Ms. Scarlett: We worked across the aisle to turn ideas into bills and bills into laws. I appreciate how those laws are rooted in the hard work of members and staff on both sides of the dais for me now. I am a better public servant for being part of the process and I'm honored to be before the committee which I love so much. Ceq has a critical role providing guidance on the implementation of the national environmental policy act.
▶ 0:30:29Ms. Scarlett: Nepa provides the national policy to create and maintain the conditions under which man and nature can exist in productive harmony. Because of my experience, I recognize environmental review and permitting processes affect every aspect of our nation from roads and bridges and habitat conservation projects to critical energy infrastructure and national security installations. If confirmed as chairman, I commit to leading the interagency process to advance these policies and ensure efficient and consistent environmental reviews across agencies.
▶ 0:31:01Ms. Scarlett: Over the years I have been afforded the opportunity to watch ceq make incredible progress towards lasting permitting reform. For example, when I started at ceq, agencies often had little to no awareness of the categorical exclusions established by other agencies. The ce's were buried in the code of federal regulations or guidance documents and in some cases were not publicly available at all. As special assistant, I helped create a ce catalog identifying each federal agency's ce's in a simple express sheet.
▶ 0:31:31Ms. Scarlett: In this administration, ceq is now implement and presidential and congressional directives for modern technology to improve the process. As part of the renewed effort, ceq launched the ce explorer which will help improve the environmental review process , allowing agencies and stakeholders to easily search and identify categorical exclusions that apply to their contracts. This I hope to oversee if confirmed to lead ceq.
▶ 0:32:02Ms. Scarlett: In closing, I believe efficient decision-making and robust environmental reviews are not ritually exclusive but the work can be done to harmonize an advance these objectives. If confirmed, I commit to working with this committee, congress as a whole, and the public on these important goals.
▶ 0:32:19Ms. Scarlett: I will write very much to leverage this nation's environmental policies to grow our economy while ensuring every american has clean air, clean water, and clean lamp thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. I look forward to your questions and working with you on these important issues should I be confirmed.
▶ 0:32:37Chair Capito: Thank you. Mr. hall.
▶ 0:32:42Mr. Hall: Good morning, chairman capito, ranking member whitehouse, and distinguished members of this committee. It is my honor to appear before you today as president trump's nominee for assistant administrator for the office of enforcement and compliance assurance at the environmental protection agency. I want to thank president trump for the confidence he has placed in me and the administrator for the support of my nomination. I am joined today by my wife and parents.
▶ 0:33:09Mr. Hall: I want to thank my family and those who supported me in prior roles and now in my nomination. I want to especially thank my wife, who supported me through public service and career transitions with all of the challenges while raising our three children. Our third was born less than two weeks before I begin at epa, so her sacrifices made all of this possible.I want to thank god for his faithfulness. I would not be here if not for his providence and blessing with this opportunity.
▶ 0:33:37Mr. Hall: My career began with public service, and I have spent most of it as a civil servant. I have now served across 4 presidential administrations from verily the department of justice. Even before I began my career, I anticipated a substantial portion of it would be public service. My father was a career civil servant for 50 years. While growing up, I was interested in science and wanted to use it to protect america, though I never envisioned doing so at epa.
▶ 0:34:06Mr. Hall: Through my studies in public policy and law school, I begin thinking seriously about optimal regulatory enforcement, though I never thought I would oversee it. I have now spent over a decade handling federal enforcement cases and if entering federal agency action. Through this I reflected on the median of public service. It is an honorable enterprise when undertaken with the right bomode. Exercising federal power is a great responsibility.
▶ 0:34:33Mr. Hall: As a prosecutor, I have seen people's freedom taken by force of law. I have seen the weaponized cost of prosecution, and there is no shortage of necessary but difficult tasks left undone in government. I understand the great weight of responsibility placed before me through this nomination.
▶ 0:34:55Mr. Hall: Looking back on my experience -- I had serving as head of the office before my nomination. From the start, I told everyone we would continue to enforce the law, holding bad actors accountable while promoting compliance and cooperative federalism. The skilled and dedicated staff at epa have the knowledge and expertise to accomplish this.
▶ 0:35:19Mr. Hall: At the same time, I recognize that valid concerns about the priorities of the previous administration that distracted from and undermined the core work of enforcing the environmental laws congress has passed. But now their instrument this opportunity to oversee a great american comeback. An epa enforcement is a critical piece of that strategy.
▶ 0:35:39Mr. Hall: As president trump works to bring industry back to america and reestablish energy dominance, we must ensure the rodewald pollution does not follow -- ensure third world pollution does not follow. Also, we must prevent foreign entities from sending toxins here and profiting off and destroying america.
▶ 0:36:04Mr. Hall: It is necessary to protect these united states even as we empower states to protect their own citizens. To reorient environmental enforcement, if confirmed I will ensure that epa enforcement will be guided by noble values. There will be clarity as we identify the best statutes and regulations. There will be visibility into our decision-making as we advise on policies. There will be consistency across the regions under the rule of law and constitutional structure.
▶ 0:36:34Mr. Hall: We will achieve efficiency by focusing on clear violations while refusing to procrastinate on difficult decisions. If confirmed, I will ensure that there is account ability for each official to embody these values. I have had the opportunity to visit some of your states and regions since joining epa and I greatly appreciate the opportunity to learn new challenges facing each through discussions with you, your staff, and state regulators. I reaffirm my desire to enforce environmental laws.
▶ 0:37:01Mr. Hall: I want to keep my children healthy and give them a clean environment and a bright future. Thank you, chairman capito and ranking member whitehouse, for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to our discussion and welcome any questions committee members may have.
▶ 0:37:16Chair Capito: Thank you. Before I begin my questions, I have three yes or no questions I ask standardly. So I am going to ask these. Do you agree if confirmed to appear before the committee or designated numbers at this committee and other committees of this compass to provide information subject to appropriate and necessary security protections with respect to your responsibilities?
▶ 0:37:42Mr. Hall: I do.
▶ 0:37:43Ms. Scarlett: Yes.
▶ 0:37:45Chair Capito: Do you agree forms of committee cushion are provided to this committee and staff and other appropriate committees in a timely manner?
▶ 0:37:54Mr. Hall: I do.
▶ 0:37:55Ms. Scarlett: Yes.
▶ 0:37:56Chair Capito: Thank you. Finally, do you know of any matters which you may or may not have disclosed that may place you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
▶ 0:38:04Mr. Hall: No.
▶ 0:38:06Chair Capito: Good. Ok. I am going to start with questions. I am going to start with katherine scarlett first. You held significant positions in the federal government relating to nepa so you know this well. And permitting processes. In each of these roles can be developed experience of what is working and what isn't. So given your expertise, what has motivated you to take on this role, and how has your past experience prepared you for this?
▶ 0:38:32Ms. Scarlett: Thank you for that question, chairman capito. I was excited to take on this role mainly because all three branches of the federal government recently have indicated that the nepa process is broken and needs to be reformed. As I stated in my opening statement, I spent nearly the last decade working on the interagency process and trying to get the environmental review process more efficient and more timely.
▶ 0:39:04Ms. Scarlett: So, given the directive of congress, I wanted to return to ceq so I can safely implement those amendments to the national environmental policy act.
▶ 0:39:13Chair Capito: I think the response of all three branches being dissatisfied with where we have been and where we are -- we need certainty more than anything. I know with you at the helm we can get some of that. Let me ask you a subsequent question. In division c title iii of the physical response ability act of 2023, congress passed the first large-scale bipartisan changes to nepa an almost 30 years.
▶ 0:39:39Chair Capito: However, it is widely viewed that the previous administration did not faithfully implement the changes in nepa included in division c title iii of that law . As members of both chambers and both political parties continue to seek reforms to support more efficient environmental reviews, will you commit to faithfully implementing -- this is important so I think both sides of the day is here -- any additional permitting and environmental review reforms passed into law consistent with the statutory
▶ 0:40:09Chair Capito: Language and the intent of congress?
▶ 0:40:10Ms. Scarlett: Yes, chairman, I do commit to faithfully and permitting any new provisions passed by congress.
▶ 0:40:16Chair Capito: Thank you. Mr. hall, my ranking member took you to task in his opening statement, I would say. But one of the statements he made I, just wanted to give you a chance to respond -- made, I just wanted to give you a chance to respond because he stated your wish would be to make it easier for the polluters to pollute. Is that a true statement in your opinion?
▶ 0:40:43Mr. Hall: Thank you chairman for the opportunity to respond to that, and I appreciate the opportunity to meet with you earlier. No, that is not a true statement. As I mentioned in my opening statement, my first day on the job -- the second day, I had an all staff meeting with oeca and told them it was my goal to continue to enforce the law and we would continue to enforce it, and I think the record bears that out.
▶ 0:41:10Mr. Hall: The administrator, when he had his hearing on the budget, was able to share some statistics that show oeca and epa have continued to enforce the law. So I am happy to get into those, but I think they show for instance on several case conclusions that there are far more in the time of this administration then the previous time of last year.
▶ 0:41:33Mr. Hall: On the criminal side, there are some great compelling statistics that show there have been more a case conclusions including case sentencing and criminal penalties.
▶ 0:41:42Chair Capito: Let me ask you about the superfund cleanup because you mentioned this in your opening statement and how to improve. We spent a lot of time trying to improve the circle implementation. We have some superfund sites. You mentioned they are on the books. I am sure you do too. On the books for years and never quite seem to get there. You have a direct role in negotiating this agreement. How would you approach the use of these tools to accelerate our cleanups?
▶ 0:42:12Mr. Hall: Yes, thank you, chairman. So, superfund enforcement is a priority of this administration, administrator, deputy administrator, on down. If confirmed it will continue to be a major priority of my tenure. I think we would use all the tools available. I know that this committee had a hearing not too long ago on superfund and superfund enforcement.
▶ 0:42:39Mr. Hall: Some of those tools were discussed, including mixed funding agreements. So I think we would continue to use all the tools available and push forward. The office of emergency management has a goal of expediting cleanup and I would like oeca to be right there with them, increasing the pace of remediation and making sure the superfund program is funded through appropriate and aggressive enforcement.
▶ 0:43:06Chair Capito: Coming from a state much like ohio, where we were basically major parts of the industrial revolution, major manufacturing sites that now have gone dormant and I really ripe for economic development but cannot get through the superfund designated.
▶ 0:43:29Chair Capito: This is important to the heartland of the country that power this nation and really brought us to where we are today to be part of the new revolution of technology and other things that are coming and advanced manufacturing. I appreciate your attention and will turn to the ranking member.
▶ 0:43:46Sen. Whitehouse: I am running late for a meeting with the leader and the delegation from great britain, so I am going to have to ask my questions via qfr. Mr. hall, I hope you will be responsive and provide the documents I request a particularly the investigation into geo, which on its face appears to be a service provided to a significant trump donor that previously employed the attorney general.
▶ 0:44:15Sen. Whitehouse: So documents that explain how and why that decision was reached by emails between epa, white house, and doj are important to dispelling what seems to be the most evident razor conclusion about what took place here which is a political favor was delivered to a significant campaign donor and a former employer of the attorney general. Thank you.
▶ 0:44:41Chair Capito: If I had known, you could have gone first. I'm sorry. Ok. Senator curtis.
▶ 0:44:50Sen. Curtis: Thank you, chair. It is great to be with you today. I think it is fair to say ceq and epa play a pretty significant role in what is happening, particularly with energy development. Thank you both for taking the time to come see me in my office. Miss scarlett, I will begin with you. And little bias. You honeymooned in utah. I feel a connection with you. Mr. hall, try to beat that.
▶ 0:45:21Sen. Curtis: But I also feel like ceq touch is directly on some urgent priorities for you and I will start with management. The west is experiencing -- the whole place feels like it is on fire. Interagency cooperation is just really critical. I am really proud to work with my calling senator padilla on an act which emphasizes this interagency cooperation.
▶ 0:45:47Sen. Curtis: In your role at ceq, how can you ensure there are no lapses in communication or responsibility among the federal agencies particularly when it comes to wildfire mitigation?
▶ 0:45:56Ms. Scarlett: Thank you for the question, senator, and thank you for the meeting. I really enjoyed our conversation last week. Ceq at its core is about interagency coordination, which is a very complicated process, and it does not always going the way it is supposed to.
▶ 0:46:15Ms. Scarlett: But I am dedicated and committing to making sure in this administration agencies are communicating actively in person and virtually at all levels of the administration from down in the field up into the headquarters offices and any role that ceq can play in ensuring that process goes smoothly, we will absolutely be doing so.
▶ 0:46:34Sen. Curtis: Thank you. I point out particularly when it comes to a wildfire, it is so time sensitive. Decisions that are made are so time sensitive. In my capacity, I also have the direct jurisdiction over ceq and by extension nepa. I would like to be really clear, utah's communities are rapidly expanding. The economy depends on predictable timely decisions.
▶ 0:47:04Sen. Curtis: Nepa delays are devastating. Very frustrating. They create unnecessary barriers for everything from housing to infrastructure, energy development. Can you talk about what steps you will take to ensure all agencies involved have actually the right technology and capacity to make timely decisions?
▶ 0:47:22Ms. Scarlett: Absolutely. Thank you for the question, senator. We are actively working with agencies on updating their agency specific nepa procedures to be responsive to the directive from congress and the fiscal responsibility act amendments. Specifically, congress imposed a two year time limit for eis and a one year time limit for ea's so we are working to establish a very disciplined process with the agency so they can achieve those timelines.
▶ 0:47:51Sen. Curtis: Thank you. Mr. hall, thank you also visiting my office. Utah is very grateful to the administrator. Please pass on our appreciation for his interest in our issues there. His visit and engagement have been significant. As you know, we have these very unique air-quality challenges in utah, especially in regions where we have basins where ozone issues are very complex, not as simple as they are and other places.
▶ 0:48:21Sen. Curtis: I believe the oil and gas producers in utah have stepped up. They have tried to mitigate these as much as possible. Oftentimes they have used ways to do this that have not been recognized by the previous administration and in some cases actually penalized. So if confirmed, how deeply to recognize and support producers who are using ways to do this that have not exactly fit in square boxes?
▶ 0:48:48Mr. Hall: Thank you for that question because it is one of the main goals of this administration to advance energy dominance. Oil and gas producers are critical. When I was acting assistant administrator, I made sure to hold them accountable but also not hinder investment in development of energy resources. That is why we put out the revision to make sure that that happened.
▶ 0:49:13Mr. Hall: In terms of recognizing those unique investments and productive ways in which they are going to comply with the law, I want to make sure if confirmed we look at that. There are a couple different ways that can occur.
▶ 0:49:34Mr. Hall: What is through pushing cooperative federalism because the states are in a better position often to know so the federal government should not get in the way of the state dealing with the regulated communities -- state curtailing the ringleader communities if they are doing a good job. But also focus on clear violations to make sure that when you are actually going after somebody, it is an important violation that actually impacts the community and harms it.
▶ 0:50:04Mr. Hall: I think focusing on clear violations that are actual significant violations of the law is critical to making sure that the good actors like you are talking about are not impacted.
▶ 0:50:18Sen. Curtis: Thank you. Of course, you can both come to utah and see firsthand.
▶ 0:50:24Sen. Schiff: Mr. holcomb I want to know how epa and doj into conclusion to drop the agency's complaint against the contractor that operates the ice facility in california. The staff personally visited this facility. Congress has a fundamental role in conducting oversight of federal contracts and awards.
▶ 0:50:49Sen. Schiff: During the last administration, epa found the company violated the law 1137 times by failing to provide employees with personal protective equipment, the pesticide chemical known as halt comes with a warning that says " causes irreversible eye damage and skin burns. Harmful if swallowed or absorbed through the skin.
▶ 0:51:12Sen. Schiff: Do not get in our eyes, or in clothing." the private prison company was facing $4 million in fines under the federal insecticide ask for irresponsible use of a chemical disinfectant that is hazardous to human health, but your agency dropped the case. A former epa enforcement official called the trump administration's choice to drop the case "a complete surrender." so I want to know what happened here.
▶ 0:51:41Sen. Schiff: The facility is in my state, and I want to know why the epa completely surrendered to this private prison company after it changed administrations. So I will begin with one question. Are you aware geo group gave president trump's super pac $1 million and contributed $500,000 to his inauguration?
▶ 0:52:01Mr. Hall: Thank you for the opportunity to address that. Ranking member whitehouse raised it in my meeting with him so I am prepared to walk through it. I do want to say up front was not involved in the decision-making. It was purely an epa case because it was an administered of case going to the administrative adjudication. I am aware of that fact or the general nature of the fact, not the specific dollar amounts.
▶ 0:52:29Mr. Hall: After the case had already been dismissed, that is how I came to awareness.
▶ 0:52:33Sen. Schiff: Ok, just for clarity, you became aware of this from the public report after the decision was made.
▶ 0:52:41Mr. Hall: Yes, sir.
▶ 0:52:42Sen. Schiff: But do you know whether those who were involved in the decision were aware that geo was a major contributor to the tune of $1.5 million to president trump or his committees?
▶ 0:52:53Sen. Schiff: The decision -- Mr.
▶ 0:52:58Hall: The decision was made and they were not aware of those facts nor did they enter the decision-making of that case.
▶ 0:53:02Sen. Schiff: Do you know if the white house had any communication with those responsible for the dismissal of the case?
▶ 0:53:09Mr. Hall: I do not specifically know, but I do not believe they do.
▶ 0:53:13Sen. Schiff: What is the basis of my speculation that you don't believe that they did? How would you know?
▶ 0:53:20Mr. Hall: Because I have talked with the career management officials. They did not indicate there was any other influence and that it was purely decided by the career management officials.
▶ 0:53:29Sen. Schiff: Ok, well, haven't talked with them, did you discuss the president's contribution to buy the company to the president?
▶ 0:53:39Mr. Hall: I mentioned the fact that there was an article on it and they indicated the career management official making the decision indicated he is not aware of it.
▶ 0:53:50Sen. Schiff: So the person made the decision to dismiss the case, claimed to you he had no knowledge that geo was a major contributor to the president or his committees?
▶ 0:54:01Mr. Hall: That is my understanding.
▶ 0:54:03Sen. Schiff: Well, you said you had the conversation so I don't want to ask your understanding. Is that what this person told you?
▶ 0:54:10Mr. Hall: Yes.
▶ 0:54:11Sen. Schiff: What is your view of the epa dropping this case? What is the basis for this?
▶ 0:54:16Mr. Hall: Thank you senator for the opportunity to discuss that because I think it is important to be able to explain that. The career management officials took a look at this, took a look at the facts and.the law and the law. -- took a look at the facts and the law. In the law, they saw the facts in equities and appropriate leaders lealy decided to dismiss it.
▶ 0:54:45Mr. Hall: In my understanding of how I think about the case, I think there were three critical points. One was the case was only about whether or not the gloves that were used by those employees were labeled consistently with the disinfectant, not whether or not anyone was harmed. That was not part of the adjudication case.
▶ 0:55:01Mr. Hall: Second, geo group had on its own gone out and gotten an independent laboratory to assess whether or not those gloves were protective and found it was and had an expert witness willing to testify at the administered appearing to that fact. And three, there was an article in the national law review that just came out yesterday indicating epa enforcement has not only continued but stepped up against antimicrobial products that are mislabeled or unregistered. I think those are the ones that are harmful.
▶ 0:55:30Sen. Schiff: And if I could, one more question, madam chair. 1,137 violations. This was not as if there was a single episode or single use of a glove. Over what period of time where there was 1,137 -- were those 1,137 violations, and does not signify a pattern of the law?
▶ 0:55:59Mr. Hall: It occurred sometime between 2021 and 2023. That was just based on the fact that the gloves were used routinely in cleanings. And no, I do not think it demonstrates a pattern of practice of willful disregard of the law because the key question is whether or not those gloves were appropriate for use of that disinfectant and I think that was a contested factual issue and it is important that they were not used to continue to prosecute the case.
▶ 0:56:28Sen. Schiff: I thank you, madam chair.
▶ 0:56:30Chair Capito: Thank you. Thank you.
▶ 0:56:33Sen. Schiff: I just got to say though that to dismiss this case in light of the vast contributions and in contradiction to the efforts that were made in the previous administration does look like a complete surrender to me. And I hope you will respond to the document inquiries that were made. Madam chair, thank you.
▶ 0:56:59Sen. Husted: Thank you, madam chair. Scarlett, as someone with ohio ties, I have an ohio conversation I want to have with you regarding ozone containment in the cleveland area. I think you may know that in the early 1990's, ohio implemented a program in the cleveland area.
▶ 0:57:29Sen. Husted: This is designed to do tailpipe testing, to mitigate emissions that would contribute to their lack of attainment of the ozone standard. Over time, the epa keeps jacking up the standard, making it harder to attain. But over time, I think this is a great example of things that frustrate people about some regulations.
▶ 0:58:00Sen. Husted: It stayed in place. It cost the state and consumer $14 million a year approximately. And it is an example of something that maybe made sense at one time in the 1990's, has stayed on the books. Emissions from automobiles are cleaner. Many automobiles are electric these days. Yet the program goes on.
▶ 0:58:29Sen. Husted: It seemingly had no impact on the standard, the attained mission standards because cleveland is being considered for upgrading from moderate to serious nonattainment. It is just an example of regulation gets on the books, a program gets mandated, yet it lives through its life. It does not have a lot of impact on improving the overall environmental quality.
▶ 0:58:57Sen. Husted: Yet here it still is, $14 million a year, the inconvenience. Can you just offer some thoughts on that? And would you commit to working with us in ohio to see if there is not a better way to do this?
▶ 0:59:13Ms. Scarlett: Absolutely. Thank you, senator. Thank you for our meeting last week as well. I love meeting fellow ohioans. That matter is not necessarily within the purview of ceq but related. I would like to talk a little bit about nepa and how we are kind of applying an approach to a similar statute. When nepa was passed, the world was vastly different.
▶ 0:59:43Ms. Scarlett: We have more technology, more resources, more knowledge, so under this administration, we are working hard to take a hard look at the statute and what is required of it. In doing so, we found agency procedures that date back to the 1980's that are layered with guidance and field memos and decision memos. So we are really trying to work within the nepa process to consolidate the guidance, have a clear directive that is really disciplined and follows the statute.
▶ 1:00:13Ms. Scarlett: I think that is something the agencies across this administration will be looking at when it comes to regulatory reform. I am absolutely happy to be part of any conversation I can be helpful with to you and the state of ohio.
▶ 1:00:25Sen. Husted: Thank you. Yes the whether it is the -- yes, whether it is nepa or other things, laws, rules, regulations, compliance standards get on the books, technology changes, but yet the rules and regulations remain the same. Even if they don't make sense to impact of modern challenges that are before us. Thank you for your willingness to help.
▶ 1:00:55Sen. Husted: I did mention this to you in our conversation and mentioned it to you before the hearing today. Just would like your thoughts because I hear from people in ohio that say we have army corps issues. Three different areas. Is it possible in your role you can help us sort this out and help ohio have one point of contact for all the issues that we interact with with the army corps?
▶ 1:01:25Ms. Scarlett: Thank you, senator. Ceq does not have any authority in terms of drawing lines for regional districts. However, I am happy to facilitate any conversations that need to happen with the army corps to improve the process for your state and all states.
▶ 1:01:41Sen. Husted: Yet. And I understand that. You do have an important role where you are in the conversation about how all of these things work in our world, and these are things when I talk to the head of the epa in ohio that they just bring up as problems that they expect us to sort out. When in washington, people talk about, whose jurisdiction?
▶ 1:02:12Sen. Husted: For them, they just want to get this fixed so I appreciate your willingness to help us navigate. Thank you.
▶ 1:02:17Ms. Scarlett: Absolutely. Thank you.
▶ 1:02:18Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator markey.
▶ 1:02:23Sen. Markey: Thank you. Mr. hall, do you commit to not allowing any enforcement actions to be dropped for political reasons, yes or no?
▶ 1:02:35Mr. Hall: I commit to following the law and the rule of law interacting impartial in all cases including decisions whether or not to dismiss actions.
▶ 1:02:44Sen. Markey: So you are saying you will not drop any cases for political reasons. Is that what you are saying?
▶ 1:02:52Mr. Hall: It depends on what you mean, senator. For policy considerations, those are absolutely appropriate to be made both in enforcement and in the regulatory context. If you are talking that partiality to parties, that will not impact my decision.
▶ 1:03:05Sen. Markey: Obviously, very clearly, you should just be saying our laws exist to protect our air, water, land, and are optional depending on how the president feels that day for political reasons, that should be your answer. I am not hearing it. Mr. hall, if directed by epa leadership or the white house to turn a blind eye to violations of environmental laws, would you comply?
▶ 1:03:32Mr. Hall: Senator, again, it is going to depend on the context. If you mean a blind eye to not enforcing the law appropriately, I will apply the law appropriately -- I will enforce the law up her purely. You can enforce a lot of different ways. The core goal is to bring entities into compliance, not just take enforcement actions.
▶ 1:03:54Sen. Markey: Again, this question should be a gimme as well. If they ask you to break the law, you just have to say no. Doesn't matter if you don't think it will happen. That should make it easier for you to say that you will not do it. No is actually a complete sentence. There is always play in politics with our air and water.
▶ 1:04:20Sen. Markey: Will you commit to congress and the epa inspector general on any investigations or allegations of political interference, suppression of staff, findings, or unlawful beginning of enforcement, yes or no?
▶ 1:04:33Mr. Hall: I will work with congress and oig as is lawful, yes.
▶ 1:04:39Sen. Markey: And again, you should be able to easily agree to participate in investigations, especially if you are able to stand by your agency's actions. Mr.
▶ 1:04:55Sen. Markey: Hall, if epa staff resist or report inappropriate political interference in enforcement cases, would you protect your own staff from its allegation if there is inappropriate political interference in their work?
▶ 1:05:11Mr. Hall: Senator, I would follow the law, including protecting them from retaliation for any unlawful reason.
▶ 1:05:19Sen. Markey: That is excellent because career epa staff work to protect our environment, should be saved from our political -- should be safe from political retaliation. We have already seen this is not the case in the trump administration.
▶ 1:05:35Sen. Markey: 144 epa employees were recently suspended after they used their first amendment rights to express concerns that trump administration was politicizing the epa and preventing it from carrying out its mission to protect the public health. Mr. hall, do you think it was appropriate to suspend epa employees for using their constitutional rights, yes or no?
▶ 1:05:59Mr. Hall: Senator, that is not my understanding what happened. I was not involved in the decision-making on that. It is also an active investigation so I will not comment beyond saying that I don't think that is a fair characterization.
▶ 1:06:11Sen. Markey: I appreciate that. But on that, you are wrong. Mr. hall, if confirmed, will you follow the hatch act? To be more exquisite, will you attack democratic lawmakers in writing using agency resources?
▶ 1:06:29Mr. Hall: It is not my intention to do that.
▶ 1:06:32Sen. Markey: Well, unfortunately, we have already seen that happen at's epa since that's at trump -- at trump's epa. I do see how that is a legal or efficient use of taxpayer money. I would hope you would agree, but I know you are not going to be able to say that publicly right now if it did reflect your views. I am not sure that it does.
▶ 1:07:03Sen. Markey: So obviously, there is a massively politicization taking place at the epa. It is going to endanger our air, our water, and our lands. We are going to see vast amounts of pollution going up into the atmosphere because of ai. There has to be 80,000 new megawatts of electricity installed every year for the next 10 years. 80,000 a year.
▶ 1:07:34Sen. Markey: The wind and solar tax breaks have now been killed. Unfortunately, as people move on to fossil fuels, it will first not be sufficient and second that which is put in place will just pollute the air and will be a tax on americans. That tax will be in new cancers and new asthmas that were avoidable.
▶ 1:08:00Sen. Markey: In the epa is going to wind up being complicit in that crime against the health of not just our planet but the lives and lungs and health of americans in our country. Madam chair, I yelled back.
▶ 1:08:13Chair Capito: Thank you. Well, I mentioned it is a very busy day. And so with no further questions, I would like to thank both of you for being here and your families and all of my colleagues for participation in today's hearings. Senators who wish to submit written questions for the record have until five apart p.m. Wednesday august 6 to do so and I believe the ranking member said he was going to be doing that.
▶ 1:08:39Chair Capito: The nominees's responses to those questions are due back to the committee lolita than five apart p.m. On wednesday august -- committee are due back no later than 5:00 p.m. On wednesday august 6 per good with that, this hearing is adjourned, and thank you very much.