▶ 0:19:02It is my privilege to hear -- call this hearing to order. I welcome our witness, judge stephen vaden, debby secretary of agriculture. I appreciate that you are willing to appear before the committee on such short notice and the opportunity to engage thoughtfully on the future of usda and how will continue to serve farmers, ranchers, and rural communities.
▶ 0:19:26Despite at the helm for less than six months, the secretary has made a significant and positive impact on the agriculture sector and rural america. I appreciate the quitman to serve the nation's farmers and foresters -- commitment to serve the nation's farmers and foresters.
▶ 0:19:48To ensure american farmers and ranchers receive emergency assistance to keep family farms in operation and help them recover from natural disasters. She has champions provisions of crop insurance research, health infrastructure, and trade promotion programs congress delivered in the one big, beautiful bill.
▶ 0:20:12The secretary has taken action to defend american livestock against the current threat and refined -- reined in the highly pathogenic avian influenza outbreak that has impacted culture and dairy operations across the U.S.. She continues to be a voice for american agriculture and those who feed, clothe, and fuel our nation.
▶ 0:20:38Secretary rollins announced a major reorganization of usda. I appreciate emphasis on improving effectiveness, accountability, enhancing services, and cutting waste. I support those goals. As we examine the proposal, we need to fully understand its implications for the people usda serves, especially how reorganization will affect hoots on the ground presence in rural america and delivery of essential services.
▶ 0:21:09From its founding, usda has been central to american life, supporting farmers and ranchers, investing in rural development, and advancing innovation in food and agriculture. As the department evolves to meet 21st century challenges, it is important that any organization enhances its ability to deliver on these commitments.
▶ 0:21:31I share the secretary's desire to ensure usda operates efficiently and meets the needs of agriculture and rural america. We must also prioritize what matters most to producers in rural communities, service, responsiveness, and results. Usda is often the most visible face of the federal government in rural america.
▶ 0:22:02That needs to be preserved and empowered. As we review the plan, I look forward to learning more about how the proposal strengthens ability to deliver on the ground, support implementation of the farm bill, and serve as a reliable partner to people it was created to support.
▶ 0:22:22Debi terry secretary I recognize you have only been part of it for three weeks after being sworn in on july 7, so you are involved but not that involved. A lot has gone on in the last three weeks, I am sure, but we want to thank you for coming on very short notice, which was due to the fact that -- hopefully we will get out of here in the next few days for a few weeks. So thank you for being here to testify.
▶ 0:22:52I now turn to ranking member senator klobuchar.
▶ 0:22:56Sen. Klobuchar: Thank, Mr. chairman p thank you for working with me to hold this hearing at the last moment the reason it is short notice is because the administration put out a half-baked plan with no notice and without consulting agricultural leaders. As we start this discussion, let me be clear.
▶ 0:23:16Sen. Klobuchar: I support efforts to make usda work, but I do not think getting rid of 15,000 employees, which is already happened because of early buyouts, because of firing people, because of everything else that has happened, is good for agriculture. I do not think these tariffs, which have dried up markets when our farmers and ranchers are already working on thin margins, have been good for agriculture.
▶ 0:23:46Sen. Klobuchar: We have a half-baked agenda that will almost certainly result here in worst services -- worst services for farmers and rural communities. Coordinated action and influence rural american agriculture does not mean just being close to where producers are.
▶ 0:24:05Sen. Klobuchar: We have 90% of employees already out in the field, but what you guys are planning on doing or proposing to us is to take that other 10% and break them down and send them to five different hubs, including a state I would say is not in the top 10 for agriculture. Not even close.
▶ 0:24:27Sen. Klobuchar: It also means having staff in a place, if we want to do our jobs right, where they can meet with peers in other agencies and interact with key stakeholder groups and members of congress, whittling down usda resources to do this crucial work puts rural america at a disadvantage when they do not have people in the room where it happens. And we have differences across the aisle but I think everyone one of my colleagues understands that you need people that can meet with you.
▶ 0:24:56Sen. Klobuchar: You need people that can go over to the white house so that you do not have people that do not have the interests of rural america in mind, making all the decisions. I am extremely concerned about the harm this reorganization will have on the usda research. The previous relocation of the economic research service and national institute of food and agriculture was nothing short of a disaster.
▶ 0:25:24Sen. Klobuchar: A 2020 three report by the government accountability office -- reports used by both democrats and republicans to make their points -- underscores the threat these shortsighted actions have on stakeholders. It was a split lee stated based on the smaller relocation that ers produced fewer key reports and took longer to process grants because of relocation. Why would we want that we have already lost 15,000 employees?
▶ 0:25:57Sen. Klobuchar: When farmers are already suffering? When we have tariffs walloping them? This means farmers can get timely economic information and researchers are left waiting for critical funding. This plan would create similar chaos on a grander scale motion seems to be what the administration is about.
▶ 0:26:19Sen. Klobuchar: Vacating long-standing research labs, including the very lab where usda began work on sterilized flies to combat worms and pushing researchers out of federal service will threaten the innovation that our farmers demand and need to combat animal and plant disease. This year, 1600 employees have already left usda research agencies and you want to make it even smaller.
▶ 0:26:46Sen. Klobuchar: When we are trying to compete with other countries when we know so many of our human-based diseases actually start with animals around the world, when we know farming and ranching has been the jewel of america's economy. I hope that the discussion will shed light on the effects the proposal will have on ability to respond to wildfires, administer critical nutrition programs, protect civil rights and meet the needs of our farmers.
▶ 0:27:19Sen. Klobuchar: Before I close, I want to point out that this reorganization plan, as I noted at the beginning, was developed without input of congress or the stakeholders usda aims to serve. It is not acceptable that we learned about this proposal minutes before it was announced.
▶ 0:27:35Sen. Klobuchar: The first months of this administration do not inspire confidence given the months of reasons cancellations, firings, hiring back, terminations, firings, and subsequent attempts to rehire veterinarians, farm loan officers, and other critical positions. It has injected uncertainty at a time when customers look for certainty and trust. I do not vote for you met Mr.
▶ 0:28:02Sen. Klobuchar: Deputy secretary, but I did think you would go in based on your experience and be able to do things that would help rural america. I took you at your word when you pledged to work with us on things that would help. That is not what happened here when we had absolutely no notice of what you were going to do.
▶ 0:28:22Chair Boozman: We will now introduce our witness. Deputy secretary of agriculture stephen baden. Deputy secretary vaden was confirmed early this year. Prior to his confirmation, he was a judge on the international court of trade. During the first trump administration, he served as general counsel of the department of agriculture. He is a native of union, tennessee, where his family has resided for many generations.
▶ 0:28:54Chair Boozman: You are now recognized.
▶ 0:28:58Judge Vaden: Chairman boozman, committee members, thank you for your invitation to come here today to talk about our reorganization plan. I have cemented my testimony to you in writing here and I do not believe reading it to you today will be a good use of our time. Instead, I would luck to focus on some facts and begin to answer some questions that have arisen.
▶ 0:29:24Judge Vaden: First's, the secretary's plan proposes relocating 2006 hundred employees from the national capital region to five hubs around the country. Let's put that number in perspective. From january 2021 to january 2025, the biden administration, 2002 hundred employees left washington, D.C.. There was no congressional notice. There was no outcry.
▶ 0:29:54Judge Vaden: There was no committee hearing. For more than 1700 days, extending beyond any fair definition of the covid pandemic , usda was on a maximum telework footing. Career and political leadership rarely set foot in usda headquarters. Staff moved away from the national capital region.
▶ 0:30:23Judge Vaden: They expected not to be asked to return. There was no congressional notice. There was no outcry. There was no committee hearing. As was noted, 90% of usda staff reports to work outside the national capital region. We propose to add approximately 2.5% to that number. 2600 people.
▶ 0:30:55Judge Vaden: With respect, it is insulting to suggest that the more than 90% of usda employees who clock in every day outside of washington, D.C. are somehow less important and less vital than the people who do the same in washington, D.C. everyone's work makes the department the heart of usda is in the field.
▶ 0:31:25Judge Vaden: The maximum number of people possible should report to work there. Speaking of where usda employees report to work, usda has a total of 4754 facilities at which its employees report to work every day. The secretary's proposal calls for closing exactly four of those 4754 places of employment.
▶ 0:31:55Judge Vaden: How did we determine which ones to close? We followed congressional intent . Earlier this year, on january 4, president biden signed into law the use it act. It passed this body 97-one. In case you're wondering, the one senator who voted against it does not sit on the agriculture committee. What does it require?
▶ 0:32:22Judge Vaden: All buildings leased or owned by government agencies should be at least 60% occupied. Not a single one -- not a one of usda buildings in the national capital region meet this congressionally mandated 60% occupancy rate. What does the act say if you fail to meet it? The agency should choose to consolidate and vacate to get into a footprint that does meet the 60% threshold.
▶ 0:32:50Judge Vaden: That is what usda is choosing to do, follow the law this body passed. Finally, a note on timing. I understand the consternation some members of this committee have with the fact that they received notification at the same time that usda's employees did. There was a thought behind that. That thought was this. The employees are the ones who are most directly affected by the secretary's decision.
▶ 0:33:20Judge Vaden: Out of common courtesy and respect, they should hear that decision from the secretary first and not from a leak that originates from somewhere else. Usda's focus of reorganization efforts has been on voluntary decisions by employees. The secretary has been frank with our employees about what budgetary numbers require and what administration expectations are so those employees can make the best decisions for themselves and their families.
▶ 0:33:53Judge Vaden: That will continue to be the department guidepost. We understand the need to work with congress. The 30 day notification period required by law ensures that now is the time for us to receive feedback from stakeholders, employees, and members of congress as well. I look forward to taking your questions.
▶ 0:34:16Chair Boozman: I would like to enter into the record the memo provided for the committee record, without objection. Can you tell us a little about -- we have a 30 day period. What kind of timeline are we looking at after that? As we go forward?
▶ 0:34:50Judge Vaden: First we have a thirty-day period of consultation required by statute. We are going to honor every day of that. As schedules allow, the secretary of agriculture and myself will travel to all five proposed publications.
▶ 0:35:10Judge Vaden: We will be engaging in further conversations with usda's eight missionaries and agency leadership on connecting the right functions of each agency and mission area to a particular hub location.
▶ 0:35:25Judge Vaden: We also need to finalize our conversations the general services administration, which manages the entire real estate footprint of the federal government regarding leases and facilities that they have available in these five regions for usda employees to move into.
▶ 0:35:44Judge Vaden: Following those discussions, we will issue a finalized timeline for implementation of the secretary's plan this will include union notifications where required by contract or law, employee notifications, including where needed options provided, and we will then initiate the vacating of the national space.
▶ 0:36:13Judge Vaden: Through the process, we will consult not only with our employees and stakeholders but congress as well.
▶ 0:36:22Chair Boozman: I think the thing we are all concerned about is the ability to serve customers in rural communities and the agriculture community that really is in a difficult situation. I'm proud of the work that we have done, as I mentioned in our opening statement.
▶ 0:36:43Chair Boozman: Can you tell us about the -- how the plan will improve the programs that support americans who live in rural areas as we go forward?
▶ 0:36:56Judge Vaden: It will allow us to build the next generation of usda leadership. The hardest problem any federal agency faces is not limited to the department of agriculture. It is talent retention. The cost of living here in washington, D.C. is prohibitive. Who do I have in mind when I'm thing about what I want for usda leadership? There someone you all know here who is the story we are trying to seek and continue.
▶ 0:37:28Judge Vaden: That is my friend ralph who is sitting back here behind me. He started his 10 year with usda in 1982, which happens to be the year I was born. So I know he has worked at usda for 43 years. Ralph moved to a neighborhood in suburban virginia. He bought a home with his wife and started a family.
▶ 0:37:54Judge Vaden: Ralph has worked his way up from the lowest of line attorneys in the office of general counsel to the top position at the department, acting general counsel. His institutional knowledge of legal issues that have come across usda desks is unparalleled. When he moved into that home in suburban virginia, all his neighbors were government employees. Today, all of the homes in his neighborhood sell for seven figures.
▶ 0:38:24Judge Vaden: There are no government employee neighbors of his. They are all professional private sector doctors, lawyers, lobbyists. Your typical D.C. types. No government employees to be found. The future ralph lindens of the world cannot buy a home in washington, D.C. on average price is seven figures. They cannot start a family or go on a journey that ralph has had.
▶ 0:38:56Judge Vaden: They can do that in north carolina. They can do that in indianapolis. They can do that in fort collins, colorado. They can do that in salt lake city, utah, which was why one of our printable considerations for where to put our regional hubs was cost-of-living. We want people to come to usda for a career, to start a family and stay with us.
▶ 0:39:27Judge Vaden: Given the cost of living in the national capital region, the ralph lindens of the world can no longer do that in the district of columbia.
▶ 0:39:38Sen. Klobuchar: It is apparent that usda did not consult with or even bother to notify congress with this plan and I would like to note -- no, did you consult with the american farm bureau before releasing this plan, the organization that represents so many of our farmers and ranchers?
▶ 0:39:58Judge Vaden: The secretary's memorandum was the first step, not the final.
▶ 0:40:03Sen. Klobuchar: Could you just answer yes or no? Did you consult with the farm bureau?
▶ 0:40:09Judge Vaden: The consultation process has just begun.
▶ 0:40:12Sen. Klobuchar: You did not. Did you consult with the national farmers union before releasing this plan? Yes or no?
▶ 0:40:20Judge Vaden: No because the consultation process has just begun.
▶ 0:40:25Sen. Klobuchar: Did you cement to this plan to the office of management and budget before this?
▶ 0:40:29Judge Vaden: A plan was submitted to the office of management and budget they are aware of our current plan.
▶ 0:40:35Sen. Klobuchar: 1600 employees have left usda's research agencies. Usda fired many researchers, including those working on avian flu, only to later backtrack. Usda is extremely delayed in setting funding for competitive research programs this year, as so many of my colleagues now.
▶ 0:41:00Sen. Klobuchar: Tomika miller these actions completely undermine agriculture research, just as we are seeing more and more animal diseases that are used against us in trade arrangements that hurt our producers. Senator smith and I have seen the effects of avian flu. Usda's reorganization plan would vacate usda research labs and eliminate or consolidate offices for the agricultural statistics service.
▶ 0:41:30Sen. Klobuchar: Do you believe vacating research sites, a limiting offices, and losing researchers will improve outcomes for farmers who depend on this research?
▶ 0:41:40Judge Vaden: 91 of 94 research labs are unaffected by the memorandum. The secretary's memorandum states that what will go on will take place over a period of years and in a way that does not interfere with any ongoing research.
▶ 0:42:01Judge Vaden: With regard to where researchers are, I think it is important to note, as you have referenced, that during the prior administration nearly all of the hiring that took place in those agencies was done virtually come out which is to say the employees that were hired reported to no office other than their own kitchen and some of them who did have offices in the national capital region not only never reported to those offices but moved hundreds of miles away.
▶ 0:42:32Sen. Klobuchar: I know you will be surprised at this, but I'm not interested in relitigating the pandemic right now, which spanned two administrations, the trump administration and the biden administration. Do you think these actions are going to make us more competitive when it comes to -- when we are dealing with research issues across the world ? How will you ensure the critical research projects will not suffer? >> absolutely I do.
▶ 0:43:03Sen. Klobuchar: On a government salary, employees cannot afford to start a quality life in washington, D.C. but they can in indianapolis.
▶ 0:43:19Sen. Klobuchar: The reorganization plan calls for closing every one of the existing food and nutrition service offices, the headquarters and regional offices, and relocating those employees as well. As you know, the program -- these programs are food nutrition assistance, which took a hit in the recent budget bill, except the states that had the highest error rates. It serves tens of millions of customers every year, including over 40 million snap recipients.
▶ 0:43:48Sen. Klobuchar: There is a huge task ahead to implement the bill with these cuts. Huge transformation that we have decided to embark on. How can usda possibly ensure the integrity of the billions of dollars is response will for overseeing with this change and closing down all the offices? Can you provide the committee with a breakdown of staff losses by function?
▶ 0:44:15Sen. Klobuchar: Given our shared interest in program integrity, I would like to know how many staff have left positions related to financial management, program integrity, or management review of nutrition programs?
▶ 0:44:27Judge Vaden: I would be happy to get you those numbers, but your supposition that all food and nutrition services will leave the region is incorrect. Every agency will have representation and officials in washington, D.C. the supplemental nutrition assistance program is primarily ministered by the states.
▶ 0:44:53Judge Vaden: Usda's role is to assure states are properly administering the program. It makes sense to move employees who oversee the states into the states that they are overseeing rather than keeping them in washington, D.C.
▶ 0:45:07Sen. Klobuchar: I had a different experience in my own state office and work. I think the work of our office's constituent services. I have one person in each of the area, but I have people together that have to interact to make decisions and do hard work together and figure out when a constituent's call -- with veteran concerns or adoption concerns -- having that kind of interaction and expertise in one space, which in the case of --
▶ 0:45:39Sen. Klobuchar: Already 90% of the workforce, as we agreed on -- one thing we have not discussed given the raging forest fires we have seen recently, given the details included in the usda reorganization plan -- moving wildland fire operations of the U.S.
▶ 0:45:59Sen. Klobuchar: For service here there's reporting the administration is considering moving parts of the U.S. world velma agency to the small business administration -- is the usda considering moving parts to other cabinet agencies?
▶ 0:46:21Sen. Klobuchar: When you're looking at 10% of the workforce already and you want to move away all the wildfire -- are you trying to decimate this agency? Are you trying to do what they are doing to the department of education? That is a question I want answered. What about the forest service? Are you pursuing getting rid of that as well?
▶ 0:46:42Judge Vaden: The budget proposal speaks for itself. It calls for centralization of federal wildfire fighting cap abilities. That is a proposal that predates the ministration and one that should be taken seriously. As it goes to the for service, I want to stay for the record that the secretary and random specifically notes that the forest service fire safety lab will not be moving and is protected in this reorganization.
▶ 0:47:10Sen. Klobuchar: Why did you tell people to resign and fire them and then try to rehire them?
▶ 0:47:18Judge Vaden: We do not have the money in our budget to pay for all the employees that were hired in the prior administration. The former secretary admitted as much last week.
▶ 0:47:32Sen. Klobuchar: So you're saying you thought was a good idea to fire them and then try to rehire them, the same people for the same positions, and you lost a bunch of veterinarians and researchers? You think that was a smart way to handle it?
▶ 0:47:46Judge Vaden: Terminated as a result of the drp.
▶ 0:47:52Sen. Hoeven: I support finding cost savings where you can. I support the idea of getting people into the field and closer to the farmer. The ultimate goal has to be better service to our farmers and ranchers across ag country.
▶ 0:48:13Sen. Hoeven: The key here that I want to talk about is when the trump administration went through this process during the president's first term and moved ers to kansas city, there was a process. We had a process where the administration worked with congress and went through the options. People could request being included and there was a give-and-take. That is what we are looking for this time.
▶ 0:48:44Sen. Hoeven: I understand your point. You want to bring something out, but I think the key is that we know that there is an ability to work with you on this to effectuate the things we talk about, cost savings, better service, those kind of things. So it also involves funding.
▶ 0:49:05Sen. Hoeven: It is going to change or funding needs and where allocations have to go and we are hoping that -- republicans have cleared the bill to be on the senate floor now and I'm hoping our colleagues are working on that right now, so it is very timely. This process is important. As we look at the five sites, there is nothing within 600 miles of those. And we are the heart of ag country.
▶ 0:49:32Sen. Hoeven: My question to you is, where are we in this process? One other point I would make is secretary secretary rollins was in front of our committee and I said, will you work with us? I said can we support the goals, but we want it to be a process working with congress and the senate and we achieve results together. I think that would garner more support for the effort.
▶ 0:50:02Sen. Hoeven: I want to know where -- I will be up to see you later today, but I want to know where we are in this process so we can accomplish what I think the secretary and I had talked about previously.
▶ 0:50:15Judge Vaden: As I stated in my opening remarks, this is the first step, not the final step. We are now accepting feedback and we want to hear from you. I know I will speak with you later this afternoon. I look forward to that meeting. We could not put offices everywhere. We learned some lessons from the ers relocation.
▶ 0:50:36Judge Vaden: One of the most important lessons that we learned was instead of looking all over the map for where we should go if we are looking to relocate, the first thing we should do is see where we already are and where we already have office space available and a core set of employees. That is one of the reasons for fort collins, colorado jumping to the top of our list.
▶ 0:51:02Judge Vaden: When we look at usda's footprint in the state of colorado, we don't only have all the employees in fort collins, but in nearby lakeland and denver. That formed a natural core particularly with forest service equities, that made sense for us to go ahead and build on. There is a similar story when you look at kansas city, when you look at north carolina, and the other hubs as well, so that is what we were looking at.
▶ 0:51:32Judge Vaden: While our plan does not have an office in north dakota, one thing I will note is nearly all of these hubs are closer to north dakota than washington, D.C., so while we cannot put a location in every state we are bringing these hubs closer to the american people we serve. If you look at a map, it is neat how it worked out that they are pretty evenly spaced across the center of the country from raleigh to salt lake.
▶ 0:52:01Sen. Hoeven: The things we talked about -- cost reductions, moving people out of dcn closer to farm country, better service for farmers and ranchers -- you can kind of go through a debate all the things you brought up as to each of the hubs. For example, what is magic about five hubs? How much agriculture is there in the state of utah?
▶ 0:52:28Sen. Hoeven: We can go through all those things and whether it is easier or better for our farmers and ranchers in north dakota given the five hubs you selected, but there is a difference between you selecting five hubs on your own and saying this is the start of the plan but this is the plan we are going to talk about but this is the plan -- that is different than if we work together and come up with a plan that people have had input and been fairly heard and treated and it may be different than five hubs or these locations.
▶ 0:52:54Sen. Hoeven: It may be different in form and function, but it is something that this congress has something to say about from an authorizing standpoint and certainly from an appropriation standpoint. So is this a process where we are still going to work together on an outcome or is this an outcome that we are now just going to talk about?
▶ 0:53:15Judge Vaden: If you read the memorandum, it has built in flexibility. Delays out a vision but there is a line which says the vision and plans laid out here can change. The secretary delegated authority to me to make changes where needed.
▶ 0:53:33Sen. Hoeven: Then we look forward to working with you on it.
▶ 0:53:40Sen. Bennet: Thank you for being here. I will prove it to you later, but I have long called for the -- trying to relocate people from washington, D.C. to parts of the country, partly to get out of the installation of this place, partly to just be closer to producers and others as well, so philosophically that is where I have been.
▶ 0:54:11Sen. Bennet: I say have to prove it to you because you just said fort collins had risen to the top of your list and I wonder if you can describe a little bit with the intention is for that hub in fort collins. We are pleased to have that announcement for our state. Then I will ask some follow-up questions. You mentioned the forest service , so if you could elaborate on that I would appreciate it.
▶ 0:54:38Sen. Bennet: >> the for service already has many employees between fort collins, lakeland, and denver. We want to build on that. It makes sense for more of the forest service to be located close to the forest it is in charge of managing and I know there has been questions by certain members of the committee about salt lake city.
▶ 0:55:02Sen. Bennet: That is also what brought salt lake city, what it can offer the forest service and what I can offer the four services aviation assets as it looks and whatever congress decides about the plan regarding centralizing wildfire efforts to fight the forest fires that we know the forest service will be charged to fight.
▶ 0:55:29Sen. Bennet: What other agencies may join the forest service in fort collins -- those list have not been finalized because we need to consult with employees and mission areas and agencies now that they know what we think makes the most sense to see how they want to adapt their footprint to these locations.
▶ 0:55:46Sen. Bennet: I think those consultations are important. It will be important to consult with the local communities as well. The research -- the world-class research done at colorado state university is an example of something I think the debarment can build on and I hope if you and the secretary will be out there that you're are able to make the time and meet with people on the ground at the university and around that ecosystem to be able to try to apply as much imagination as
▶ 0:56:18Sen. Bennet: Possible to the work you are trying to do.
▶ 0:56:19Judge Vaden: We join with you in wanting to build in every force multiplier we can. Brooke or I will visit fort collins and give you a heads up before we go out there. If you wish to join us, you or your staff are more than welcome to as well as your colleagues or senate -- in the senate or house. That is one of the reasons we think this plan is such a good idea.
▶ 0:56:50Judge Vaden: You just mentioned colorado state university. It is easier to collaborate and easier to multiply efforts and it is that in person collaboration we are trying to spark.
▶ 0:57:00Sen. Bennet: I was on the phone with the secretary because we were having our biweekly fire update, as it happens. The secretary was on that call. We had I think seven senators because this is a moment of deep peril in the west, as it is every summer. For us, this is life and death. Implementation of bureaucratic choices is not philosophical.
▶ 0:57:30Sen. Bennet: It is can we preserve the american west and can we preserve our way of life. Can we preserve our drainages and the water we all rely upon? For us, none of this is trivial. None of this is about politics.
▶ 0:57:50Sen. Bennet: I would finish by saying the reorganization you are talking about with respect to fire generally -- that has to be something that there are deep consultations on. Today we had a discussion with the interior secretary and agriculture secretary about the importance of thinking about how we are doing fire mitigation and forest restoration. This is not just about fighting fires. It is about the landscape.
▶ 0:58:21Sen. Bennet: I know he knows as well from his work as governor that what you do before a fire happens and on the back end of the fire -- I hope we will use this as an opportunity to try to think as deeply as we can about this because we may never get another chance.
▶ 0:58:39Judge Vaden: I am with you on that. I want to work with you on this because this is something we cannot afford to get wrong. I would point out to you -- I know you have probably read the memorandum, but it notes one of the instructions from the secretary is that as we go forward with the reorganization after consultation with congress we will do so in a way that does not interfere with the forest service during forest fire season.
▶ 0:59:09Judge Vaden: They are going to be left to do their job and they will move when it is safe for them to do so. As I noted in response to our questions, we took into account the four service needs and aviation needs with regard to our selections of salt lake city, utah and fort collins, colorado as two of our five hubs.
▶ 0:59:33Chair Boozman: Senator hyde-smith.
▶ 0:59:37Sen. Hyde-Smith: I appreciate you appearing both -- today. You are doing a great job. I want to be clear that I support the efforts to make the department of agriculture more sustainable and responsive to farmers and producers, including making the usta operate closer to the people it serves. I support taking a thorough look at usda operations in washington, D.C.
▶ 1:00:07Sen. Hyde-Smith: And across the country to correct inefficiencies and restore fiscal response ability. I applaud you and the secretary for reviewing department of operations -- departmental operations and I think you are doing exactly that.
▶ 1:00:29Sen. Hyde-Smith: There are still many questions that need to be answered on specifics of the reorganization proposal, so I understand things are still open and nothing is final yet, but it is a work in process. Page three of the memo made public last week states the agricultural research service will eliminate its area offices and residual functions will be performed by its office of national programs.
▶ 1:00:58Sen. Hyde-Smith: I have concerns about the occasion that this section may have for agricultural research, specifically work being done in mississippi that I think you are familiar with, which is home to the agricultural research service southeast area office.
▶ 1:01:17Sen. Hyde-Smith: It is the largest agricultural research location in the southeast and one of the largest -- it is located in the mississippi delta, where it remained close to thousands of farmers, producers, key stakeholders, and customers, which is a key pillar for the usda wii organization proposal.
▶ 1:01:40Sen. Hyde-Smith: This location provides careers, expertise, and economic opportunity in an area that struggles with poverty for generations. The southeast area office and area administrative office staff provides leadership and administrative support services to all research units across the southeast region.
▶ 1:02:02Sen. Hyde-Smith: This includes 27 research locations in mississippi, alabama, arkansas, tennessee, georgia, south carolina, puerto rico, and the virgin islands. Often in partnership with our land-grant universities. This involves 60 research units, nearly 500 scientists.
▶ 1:02:32Sen. Hyde-Smith: The southeast area office is critical to the success of the research programs covering everything from insect management research, warm water aquaculture research, crop genetics, and water resource management. The area office staff understands the research being conducted in the region and supports the area scientists located at the research units through the southeast.
▶ 1:02:58Sen. Hyde-Smith: This allows for dedicated resources to work on challenges unique to agriculture in the southeast. Stone will also operates as a host center for federal employees. Other federal agencies, including the irs, have employees housed in that center.
▶ 1:03:24Sen. Hyde-Smith: The center has capacity to house other agency employees and research programs with a quality office and lab space, which can be utilized as part of the reorganization proposal. The area office operations budget of approximately $9.9 million will no longer be managed if the area office is eliminated. This will have a negative effect on the local economy in mississippi if employees are reassigned to other states.
▶ 1:03:52Sen. Hyde-Smith: To mean, this runs counter to the goal of moving usda staff outside of washington, D.C. and getting them closer to the department customer base. I could go on for days talking about how valuable the southeast area office in mississippi is to usda. Agriculture research and our ability to remain a global leader in agriculture.
▶ 1:04:15Sen. Hyde-Smith: What assurances can you provide me that any proposal finalized by usda will not negatively impact the facility, its employees, or the important work being done there?
▶ 1:04:30Judge Vaden: Thank you for your question and your passion for the center shines through. First, let me make a distinction that may not have been clear in my earlier remarks. The fact that the secretary's memorandum indicates we are removing a level of middle-management between the people on the ground who actually do the work and the people who ultimately are responsible for overseeing it does not mean automatically everyone who is located in a
▶ 1:05:02Judge Vaden: Former regional office of an agency will be moved. With respect to stone ville because of the research conducted their, I believe at the current time the plan, subject to consultation with you, is for staff to remain there.
▶ 1:05:23Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you for your answer.
▶ 1:05:27Sen. Smith: I will follow up on the questions my friend just asked regarding ars facilities. We have two in minnesota, one in st. Paul conducting research into soil and water management and he probably know that earlier this year those lab researchers in st. Paul were laid off and then rehired.
▶ 1:05:54Sen. Smith: There is also a lab in minnesota that focuses on soil and water conservation. That lab has 15 full-time vacancies right now due to the current trump administration force reductions and lack of hiring. My first question is what is the administration's plan for these two facilities in minnesota? What is your plan for keeping them going and letting them do your work?
▶ 1:06:22Judge Vaden: With regard to staffing levels and individual facilities in minnesota, I'll have to get back to you on that. With regard to labs themselves, as I noted in the beginning, as a result of the plan and the budget, which is pending before the congress, 90 of 94 ars labs will be untouched.
▶ 1:06:45Judge Vaden: The labs that you have mentioned in the state of minnesota are among the 90 of 94 labs that will remain untouched by the reorganization.
▶ 1:06:55Sen. Smith: I spoke with you during your confirmation hearing. You and I had a conversation about the importance of tribal relations and treaty responsibilities that the federal government has to tribal nations and as we know the usda does not have the best track record when it comes to working with tribes.
▶ 1:07:19Sen. Smith: Could you describe what tribal consultation you have undertaken so far with the reorganization and your plans for that consultation?
▶ 1:07:28Judge Vaden: We intend to hear from all our stakeholders, including tribes. I hope you took note of the fact that in the memorandum, although it has not received as much attention as other parts of the memorandum, we note we are going to consolidate tribal relations functions and ensure our office of tribal relations delivers all required functions.
▶ 1:07:54Judge Vaden: The reason we want to do this is similar to the reason we want to consolidate civil rights functions. Historically, as you know, there have been inequities between agencies in terms of how communities are dealt with and the equality of service they get.
▶ 1:08:13Judge Vaden: We believe by consolidating these functions we can truly ensure that all tribal members receive the same level of service that they deserve regardless of which agency within usda they are dealing with.
▶ 1:08:26Sen. Smith: I will look forward to following up with you on that and if you will allow make much tribal nations are not another constituency of the usda. We have a government to government relationship. In that sense, it is different. Though I mean in no sense any disrespect to the important constituencies that the usda has. Mr.
▶ 1:08:48Sen. Smith: Vaden, there's a huge interest in minnesota in the work that the usda does around world development. This is an area I have spent time working on and I want to, in the short time I have left, I am concerned about what is or is not in this reorganization plan regarding what administration plans are for rural development.
▶ 1:09:14Sen. Smith: Does the administration commit to maintaining world development as a mission area rather than having it get farmed out to other agencies across the federal government? What is your plan for keeping rural development state offices? >> world of element is personal to me. I live in rural america.
▶ 1:09:38Sen. Smith: That is where I go home to have seen, as you have, in the state of minnesota over the past many decades, where towns that used to have multiple factories, including my own, have lost those in recent years. You have a committed champion in world of element in secretary rollins and myself. When it comes to state-level offices, there is a reason why they are not mentioned in the memorandum.
▶ 1:10:08Sen. Smith: That is because they are unaffected.
▶ 1:10:10Sen. Smith: You expect those local offices to stay as they are right now?
▶ 1:10:17Judge Vaden: We are going to leave the county level footprint alone as a result of this memorandum. That not only goes for rural development. It also goes for the farm services agencies.
▶ 1:10:30Sen. Smith: Yesterday, the banking committee passed out of committee a significant piece of housing legislation and included in the legislation is a bill we have worked on to make important improvements and reforms to rural housing services so we can preserve rural housing in communities. This is over 400,000 units of rural housing across the country.
▶ 1:11:00Sen. Smith: I constantly hear about challenges of staffing shortages and technology challenges in rural housing service, which makes it difficult for the agency to actually function and operate effectively. Our bill addresses this. I want to mention this to you because, as the secretary and agency move forward, we have made an important first step of passing this legislation out of banking and housing. I hope we can move it through the senate floor and get the president's signature.
▶ 1:11:33Sen. Smith: I hope we can continue to work on that. I am sorry I'm over time, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:11:40Chair Boozman: Senator tuberville.
▶ 1:11:44Sen. Tuberville: Mr. vaden, thanks for being here and for what you are trying to do. Increasing government efficiency, reducing unnecessary spending. We are $37 trillion in debt and we need to look after our hard-working farmers. We have already lost forms of the last few years. 25,000 farmers. The suicide rate is out the roof . We are losing.
▶ 1:12:16Sen. Tuberville: In the last proficient -- profession I was in, you lose and you get your ass fired real quick. Our farmers are in trouble. Even if they make a profit this year, we are still going to lose thousands of farms and find out how quick we are going to need farmers and producers when all this happens. So our buildings are falling apart. We are in debt. We need expensive repairs.
▶ 1:12:48Sen. Tuberville: Do we have any estimates of how much money this will cost the federal government and taxpayers through usda? I know we have some good structures, but have we looked into any of that at all?
▶ 1:13:01Judge Vaden: We have an estimate regarding how much and minimum we expect to save once costs are taken into account. That is approximately $4 billion. How did we get to that number? By looking into the headcount reductions as a result of the deferred resignation program. Those alone will save the department of agriculture approximately $1.9 billion. He mentioned the state of our buildings.
▶ 1:13:32Judge Vaden: Particularly when it comes to the national capital region, looking at the four buildings proposed to vacate, the value of the deferred ancients on those buildings is 2.2 billion dollars. Hard to conceive, but that is the calculation when you add those buildings together of how much maintenance they need to bring them up to modern standards.
▶ 1:13:59Judge Vaden: So when you add those sums together of expect savings when you're starting out with more than $4 billion, that is before we take into account the lower cost of living for employees, the lower lease rates that we will have to pay. The full value of that we will only know when the plan is finalized after consultation with congress. We start at a baseline of $4 billion of savings.
▶ 1:14:28Sen. Tuberville: So you obviously did your due diligence on housing in some of these new locations. You feel good about that, about the amount it will cut the cost of living for a lot of these young people hopefully that we get in the usda?
▶ 1:14:45Judge Vaden: We do. If you look at the federal reserve board data, which they analyze large regions of the country, washington, D.C. falls into the northeast region for the federal reserve bank. According to the federal reserve, the average according to the federal reserve the average median price of a home in the northeast region is more than $800,000.
▶ 1:15:12Judge Vaden: What, according to the federal reserve, is the median price of a home in the midwest, where we are seen during many employees? Less than half of that. >> talking about nutrition, sending more people back to the states to help with that, my future plan is obviously trying to get back to the state government and help in that area. Our error rates in a lot of our states are absolutely awful.
▶ 1:15:41Judge Vaden: We want to get those down in the state of alabama. You think that will get error rates down to a point where we can survive and feed and help the right people that need it other than people sitting on the couch watching tv? >> are due, senators. The food and nutrition service will have employees in washington, D.C. in either the whitten building or the yates building going forward under the secretary's plan.
▶ 1:16:11Judge Vaden: As we shift more people into the field focused on the states and regions of the country we serve it means more people for individuals in alabama and every other state to reach out to to help with technical assistance and whatever other advice and counsel we can offer, best practices, what have you to get the error rates down so states can come into compliance with a new bill congress has passed.
▶ 1:16:34Sen. Tuberville: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:16:46Sen. Welch: I support as much local engagement and leadership as possible. To push much more authority back to local communities invested in making things work. I believe in more local leadership and less washington senator leadership. That's important.
▶ 1:17:12Sen. Welch: I have some inclination to be supported of -- supportive of folks back home, closer to where they are serving. The concern I have is whether the reorganization plan is on the level. Whether it is about empowering local communities or decimating the workforce. That is some of what my questions will be about. In vermont we have lost 78 staff members already. Our local usta is terrific.
▶ 1:17:46Sen. Welch: When we call we get an answer. We lost 78 people. So, how can I get excited about this so-called reorganization plan when folks are going back but we already lost 78? Tell me why I should be happy about this?
▶ 1:18:03Judge Vaden: Senator, to use your phrase, the plan is on the level. The secretary and I are both serious. Employees that accept their new locations, they have a job and we have an office for them and we are planning a new home for them in a location where their federal salary will go further.
▶ 1:18:27Sen. Welch: If you believe in local control why do you fire it local people?
▶ 1:18:32Judge Vaden: If you are referring to the deferred resignation plan, those were voluntary decisions made by individual employees who chose, with the information the agency provided to them, to seek a new career elsewhere.
▶ 1:18:42Sen. Welch: Again, I have a disagreement on that. In talking to a lot of federal workers, they felt the acts\ workers, they felt the actxe was coming down and they had to choose between two terrible things. To be fired and get one of those notices that people get and they are escorted out of the building within five minutes. My daughter in law got that from usaid. Or, to take the buyout.
▶ 1:19:15Sen. Welch: That does not satisfy me. Again, we have 78 people that want to stay in their jobs, by and large. But they are gone. Try to reassure me, concretely, about how this works out for the benefit of local folks and farmers who depend on U.S.da.
▶ 1:19:43Judge Vaden: Five point you to the language of the memorandum. The memorandum puts a thumb on the scale against future riffs. As a matter of fact, the memorandum's terms specifically notes there can be no riffs under the reorganization unless it is personally approved by me.
▶ 1:20:02Sen. Welch: You know what my concern is. I want this in the real world to be beneficial for folks in vermont, folks who are incredibly valuable citizens.
▶ 1:20:20Sen. Welch: The other question I have is about the balance between the commodity affirming interests and concerns that many of us on this committee have. Like vegetable farmers, dairy farmers. I have been working for years trying to get more support for local farming enterprises that are suitable for the state I live in.
▶ 1:20:53Sen. Welch: My concern is an imbalance . I won't argue with stash for taking anything from our but I want more for folks with vegetable farms, farm to school, and organic farms and I don't see that priority as being important. Can you address that?
▶ 1:21:19Judge Vaden: Let me make two points. First, this reorganization plan, as proposed by the secretary, is not meant to preferentially advantage or disadvantage any particular sector of agriculture. I know senator schiff that just came in shared your concerns about whether usta cares as much about specialty crop farmers. You mentioned dairy farmers, as they do others. Speaking for myself, I do.
▶ 1:21:46Judge Vaden: We want all farmers, traditional, or, specialty crop, commodity crop, to make a profit and do well. If there are things we can do better, ideas you have about how we can serve your constituents better, or if there are programmatic ideas that we can provide technical assistance on, please call me.
▶ 1:22:09Rep. Welch: I will call you. It does come down to resource allocation. That is the reflection of the decision of congress as to where the priority is. It is really essential to a lot of farmers that there are non-commodity orientation be respected and be supported and encouraged.
▶ 1:22:33Sen. Boozman: Senator marshall.
▶ 1:22:38Sen. Marshall: Welcome. I am glad you are here today. In her testimony you mention some advantages of moving to some of these communities. I would point out you failed to mention that moving to kansas city, suddenly, you would have the advantage of being a chiefs fan, whether that -- rather than suffering through another year with the washington commanders. You would be within an hour of the most storied basketball program in a nation and barely two hours from the first land-grant university in america.
▶ 1:23:09Sen. Marshall: I want to give you a chance to talk a little more. When you think about the kansas city metro, within a 2 hour drive of the iowa state university. The nebraska university. Missouri. Arkansas. How far? How far away is auburn? Not too far. 35 miles. Anyway. My point is, you cannot coach talent. You have to have talent.
▶ 1:23:39Sen. Marshall: Within miles of their, some of the greatest agricultural research in the world, how important is that to american agriculture, let alone, the affordability issues you mentioned?
▶ 1:23:50Judge Vaden: It is vital. We have not forgotten. You have not either. There is unfinished business left. But when you think about the potential that facility has and the technology and a level of research that can go on there that is vital for the future of american agriculture, you have pointed to many of the reasons why kansas city also joined as one of our five hubs. The department puts thought into this.
▶ 1:24:19Judge Vaden: We want to spark the level of collaboration you have noted, whether it be with our land-grant and non-land-grant university partners, whether it be with individual farmers. Whether it be with the local chamber of commerce in an area that is driven and motivated. Even though it may be in an urban setting, by agriculture.
▶ 1:24:40Judge Vaden: I know you are well aware the federal reserve has a location in kansas city and when we are looking at the shape of the agricultural economy, for inclusion in the beige book, we look to what the kansas city fed has to say. Usta will be able to take advantage of all of these synergies in not only kansas city, but other hubs that we have laid out.
▶ 1:25:03Judge Vaden: >> over the past four years it was reported that only 6% of usta employees were in the offense as well. And a crescendo of complaints from my agriculture producers back home. That they could work with their local ssa officer or conservation officer but the report would get clogged here in D.C.. I want to complement the white house. The $10 billion that was appropriated within -- in spring and within days my farmers had the help they needed.
▶ 1:25:34Judge Vaden: More recently, $16 billion. So, something is working right from the standpoint of customer services. I can't help but think that when you have people working for usda out there going to church, to soccer matches with local farmers and ranchers it will be a better service as well. Talk about customer service and how it will be impacted by this, the net net moving out into the hinterlands, as we call it?
▶ 1:26:06Judge Vaden: I don't consider it the hinterlands. I consider it home. But with having more people in the field we agreed that the level of service will improve. And even if we had a disagreement, the congress has legislated on this point. That is another matter that grove consideration of the plan. Looking at the usta reorganization authority granted to us by congress in 1953. If you actually look at the statute -- I'm a former judge. I tend to look at statutes. What does the statute say?
▶ 1:26:38Judge Vaden: The statute says "in carrying out this law the secretary shall seek to simplify and make efficient operation of the department of agriculture to place the administration of farm programs close to the state and local levels. " it is exactly what congress intended. The maximum amount of usda resources dedicated come out in the field, not in washington, D.C..
▶ 1:27:07Rep. Marchant: -- Sen. marshall: president trump's trade deals are working. We never sold a cheeseburger in europe. 40% of our corn crop goes to ethanol. Suddenly the eu and u.k. And all these countries will buy ethanol as well and we are seeing manufacturing jobs moved back to the country because of the tariffs as well.
▶ 1:27:37Rep. Marchant: American agriculture will benefit from long-term trade agreements and we can't wait to see what is next coming out of the white house and the tariffs. >> I want to put on the record two letters.
▶ 1:27:52Rep. Marchant: I will put a pin in my disagreements with senator roger marshall on the tariffs the national association of forest retirees sent you and I a letter opposing the reorganization of the forest service saying it would decimate the ability of the forest service to deliver services and conduct research.
▶ 1:28:11Rep. Marchant: Second letter, the american federation of government employees, that represent many usda employees, they sent a letter to you and me opposing the reorganization due to the impact on the workforce and asking for an impact assessment and cost-benefit analysis.
▶ 1:28:27Rep. Bergman: -- Rep. bergman: -- Sen. boozman: without objection. Senator lujan.
▶ 1:28:35Sen. Lujan: Farmers and ranchers in mexico told me the tariffs were like a gut punch. Everything is getting more expensive for them, implements, fertilizer. If you buy ground beef, compared to the prices he saw just a little bit of time ago. Anyhow. That's not what I am here to talk about today. But I thought it was important to mention. Mr.
▶ 1:29:03Sen. Lujan: Bateman, this memo proposes eliminating the forest nine regional offices. The southwest regional office is located in new mexico. I am hoping we get information shared with the employees in all parts of america where they will be impacted by this plan including 250 employees at the office. I want them to be prepared. What will eliminating the regional office in albuquerque mean for the employees?
▶ 1:29:41Judge Vaden: Albuquerque is specifically mentioned in the memorandum because of its important hr functions. It is a core area of the forest service that will be unaffected by the reorganization.
▶ 1:29:52Sen. Lujan: It will stay open?
▶ 1:29:54Judge Vaden: No, senator britt
▶ 1:29:55Sen. Lujan: Then let's get onto the employees.
▶ 1:29:58Judge Vaden: The hr function will be there. The regional office will no longer be there. Employees may be absorbed into other areas in albuquerque or might be asked to move tending consultation with the employees and the agencies. It is also important to note, because I want to respond to the question you sent to the department of agriculture the other day. You asked about the lease at the building at 333 broadway street southeast.
▶ 1:30:27Judge Vaden: I thought you would want to know that that building has long been on the gsa priority list for closure. It's lease is set to end on the 20 -- 31st of december, 2026.
▶ 1:30:43Sen. Lujan: I have limited time. We sent you those questions so you could respond in writing and you chose not to do that. Maybe now you will bear that is why we sent them ahead of time.
▶ 1:30:58Judge Vaden: That question was not part of the letter senator klobuchar sent.
▶ 1:31:05Sen. Klobuchar: If you can give senator lujan a extra time? One letter is not all we need here. When we have consultation senator lujan has every right to sent his own letter.
▶ 1:31:16Sen. Lujan: Have employees been consulted?
▶ 1:31:18Judge Vaden: The consultation begins now.
▶ 1:31:22Sen. Lujan: Today?
▶ 1:31:23Sit -- Judge Vaden: The day the memorandum was issued.
▶ 1:31:28Sen. Lujan: Have employees and albuquerque been consulted?
▶ 1:31:31Judge Vaden: They will be consulted through their union members.
▶ 1:31:35Sen. Lujan: But they have not been consulted yet. We need to know when the consultation will begin. Based on the secretary memorandum it is not clear if the center will be closed or relocated and that is why we are asking. The administration needs to provide more details about the reorganization plan and how proposed changes will impact wildfire response. A lot of these questions might not have had to be asked today if our staff questions had been answered as opposed to ignored.
▶ 1:32:02Sen. Lujan: When will you, on behalf of the department of agriculture, provide the information to the committee?
▶ 1:32:08Judge Vaden: We already had multiple staff meetings and we will continue those.
▶ 1:32:11Sen. Lujan: I will try to be more clear. I'm sorry if my english is spoken with an accident -- accent. When will you provide the information to the committee?
▶ 1:32:22Sen. Lujan: Senator, we will get it to you.
▶ 1:32:28Sen. Lujan: When will you provide the information to the committee, to the members, to those of us elected to be here? When?
▶ 1:32:36Judge Vaden: When we finalize it.
▶ 1:32:38Sen. Lujan: Is it not finalized?
▶ 1:32:40Judge Vaden: This is a vision to be implemented. The individual details need to be worked out with agencies and employees. That involves consultation with you.
▶ 1:32:50Sen. Lujan: When will you provide the existing information about the reorganization plan to the committee and members?
▶ 1:32:56Judge Vaden: The existing information is contained in the memorandum. If you want background data regarding how the decisions were made we are happy to work with you.
▶ 1:33:06Sen. Lujan: I appreciate that. One thing I have been hearing from folks about home -- back home is we are seeing an all-out assault on food programs. One in four americans rely on programs to eat. The administration is attempting to got to specialized workforce that ensures the programs operate effectively and efficiently. I read the secretary memorandum released on the 24th.
▶ 1:33:30Sen. Lujan: What I am getting from people in new mexico is they are already struggling to get the timely technical assistance needed to administer wic to mothers and kids back home. Has the department conducted an analysis of how the proposed reorganization will impact the ability of americans to access federal nutrition assistance programs?
▶ 1:33:50Judge Vaden: By sending more people into the states and having fewer people in washington, D.C. we will have more employees including the food and nutrition service closer and more available to state partners.
▶ 1:34:02Sen. Lujan: Did you all conduct an analysis of how it will impact the ability to feed folks?
▶ 1:34:06Judge Vaden: As part of our plan, our entire effort was to increase --
▶ 1:34:12Sen. Lujan: Did you conduct an analysis? Has analysis been conducted? Yes or no.
▶ 1:34:20Judge Vaden: Yes.
▶ 1:34:22Sen. Lujan: When will you commit to sharing the analysis with the committee?
▶ 1:34:28Judge Vaden: Senator, we will work with you following the hearing.
▶ 1:34:31Sen. Lujan: A week? A month? If it already exists, it could be here tonight.
▶ 1:34:36Judge Vaden: With regard to the analysis in each specific agency --
▶ 1:34:40Sen. Lujan: I yield back.
▶ 1:34:45Sen. Fischer: Thank you and Mr. secretary for your attendance today. I appreciate that you answered our chairman's call to come before the committee and be here in a fairly short manner. You might recall during your confirmation process you and I discussed the potential benefits of the relocation of usta. I shared I thought nebraska would be a great location.
▶ 1:35:18Sen. Fischer: Where agriculture is ingrained in our culture and high-quality educational institutions. Ultimately, I would have liked to see a process that allowed for nebraska to demonstrate its strong value proposition. While I do agree with the overreaching goal here, I have to express disappointment in how this has been rolled out. And, the lack of engagement of congress prior to the announcement. I agree with senator hoeven.
▶ 1:35:49Sen. Fischer: To accomplish a major reorganization, congress will need to be a partner to provide resources and, perhaps, additional authority. I hope you will commit that moving forward, usda will be proactive in engagement with this committee. And also, with the appropriations committee.
▶ 1:36:11Judge Vaden: As I noted in my opening remarks, the secretary's memorandum was the first step, not the final. It was essentially the green flag, not the checkered flag. Now, what we have entered into is a 30 day statutorily required period, having given notice to you of our intentions to reorganize the department to hear from you.
▶ 1:36:37Judge Vaden: Senator hoeven noted he is coming to meet with me today and I thank him since I am spending time today with him for him coming down to see me in my office in the whitten building and I will be happy to meet other members of the committee that have similar concerns, ideas, and deficiencies they want to share with us so we can make our plan better.
▶ 1:37:06Sen. Fischer: I want to understand usda impacts to my state, nebraska. We are home to several usda research facilities including the U.S. meat and animal research center that conducts research that is strongly supported by our livestock industry and a new ars facility code located at the university of in a good lincoln which is -- university of nebraska lincoln which is focused on innovative
▶ 1:37:38Sen. Fischer: Agriculture research, for which construction has started. Can you verify that neither of these ars facilities will be impacted.
▶ 1:37:46Judge Vaden: I can. I am surprised you left out the nrcs soil center in lincoln.
▶ 1:37:53Sen. Fischer: I was going to get to that.
▶ 1:37:55Judge Vaden: All of those facilities are un-impacted. 90 of 94 ars research facilities are unimpacted by the memorandum including all facilities in lincoln, and for that matter, the rest of nebraska. You might have noted that while individual facilities were not called out by name, lincoln, nebraska was.
▶ 1:38:18Judge Vaden: I am here to confirm that was the intent of putting that in there, to signal those facilities, for the reasons you have noted, are important and point -- part of the 90 of 94 ars facilities which will be untouched.
▶ 1:38:35Sen. Fischer: More broadly, as you go through reorganization, what thought have you given to address any outstanding facility improvement which might be needed at these research centers? Basically I'm asking, what commitment do you have to these centers in the future?
▶ 1:38:54Judge Vaden: The budget is a number congress gives us. Obviously, for every dollar we save, it gives us the opportunity, if congress allows, to reallocate the funds towards facilities we intend to keep. I am excited that the secretary's plan calls for us to save at least $2.2 billion by ditching these national capital region facilities which are out of date and in disrepair.
▶ 1:39:22Judge Vaden: We are happy to work with congress is, as a result of those savings, there are other facilities you think are worthy of investment with those moneys.
▶ 1:39:33Sen. Fischer: I am sure we will be in touch in conjunction with the university. Thank you.
▶ 1:39:40Sen. Boozman: Senator warnock something.
▶ 1:39:45Sen. Warnock: Thank, chair boozman and senator schiff. Last week without notice to this committee secretary rawlins announced a mass reorganization and now you are here in response to the chairman's call. What I would like to know is whether this plan will interrupt the lives of everyday georgians who depend on usta programs.
▶ 1:40:16Sen. Warnock: These are folks I talked to all the time. About what usda does or does not do and how it can deliver for a family farmers in georgia. I am proud to secure a 21 billion dollars for farmers and rural communities in georgia devastated by hurricane helene and other disasters. I am glad to see applications for some of this funding are finally opening up.
▶ 1:40:46Sen. Warnock: But, we are already at the beginning of what could be a very rough hurricane season. I have seen firsthand the devastation these are kings can bring. Our U.S. -- usda staff that administer disaster funding affected by the reorganization?
▶ 1:41:09Judge Vaden: Our intent is for the front line facing positions, whether it is people that do normal commodity programs or are involved in disaster relief, that their efforts not to be affected by this reorganization.
▶ 1:41:23Sen. Warnock: Do you expect that part of usda to see a downsizing in staff?
▶ 1:41:34Judge Vaden: We made a commitment that if employees go with us to the new locations, we have an office at a job for them there. Whether every employee will voluntarily decide to come with us, I don't know.
▶ 1:41:51Sen. Warnock: A relocation for a family is a big deal. What do you think will happen?
▶ 1:41:55Judge Vaden: I think many will choose to come. Because given cuts made by other federal agencies here in washington, D.C., the job market is not what it once was here. I think that the exciting opportunity the new hubs provide, for them to actually be able to own a home affordably and grow and expand their family with a lower cost of living, that is one of the primary reasons we chose each of the five hubs, will attract them to come.
▶ 1:42:26Sen. Warnock: You don't expect a significant reduction in staff?
▶ 1:42:32Judge Vaden: Do I think 100% will say yes and relocate? No, senator. That would not be realistic. But I think that a significant percent more than a majority will choose to come.
▶ 1:42:44Sen. Warnock: What are your plans to ensure the reorganization does not continue to delay the rollout of critical funds farmers need in the wake of disasters?
▶ 1:42:58Judge Vaden: Fsa is hard at work at that good I have had meetings, even though I am only three weeks on the job, to facilitate that rollout. I participated with secretary rollins overseeing some of those funds my first week on the job. You have my word that is first and foremost in my mind. We are aware the farm economy is not strong now. Producers need the funds as soon as possible and we will get them out.
▶ 1:43:24Sen. Warnock: Will you review the impact of the reorganization plan and report back to the committee without us having to call you? We report back to the committee regarding whether or not it is working?
▶ 1:43:36Judge Vaden: Absolutely. I do not know whether you were in here when I mentioned it to the other senators. I apologize for repeating myself. If you have ideas about how we can we organize better or if there are particular things in georgia you want to draw attention to, we are happy to meet with you. I hope you saw on the memorandum that athens, georgia, though it is not a hub, will play an important role in usda going forward.
▶ 1:44:03Judge Vaden: The forest service, as you know, already has significant assets in athens, georgia, and we intend to build on those as a part of reorganization and we are working with the southern region of the forest service and current regional forester there in transitioning usda assets for the forest service, so important for the eastern region of the country to the athens location.
▶ 1:44:30Sen. Warnock: In the first trump administration usda relocated the location of the food and agriculture association to kansas city, missouri. The move resulted in the black staff at this agency declining by 65%. What is your plan to ensure this reorganization does not disproportionately impact staff of a particular demographic?
▶ 1:44:58Judge Vaden: We are going to treat everyone equally and make sure everybody has the information. You and congress generously granted to the agency the ability to provide relocation assistance when things like this to happen. Of course, employees who decide to make the move are eligible for the assistance.
▶ 1:45:16Sen. Warnock: What is your plan to make sure? We saw a disproportionate impact in kansas city in that case. What is your plan to ensure we don't see this kind of disproportionate impact?
▶ 1:45:27Judge Vaden: Senator, we want every employee to join with us regardless of race, gender, or any other characteristic. If you have ideas on how to target specific populations to ensure they see the benefits of the secretaries plan, Sen.
▶ 1:45:47Warnock: To be honest, I'm deeply suspicious of that. The approach of the administration seems to be to push against any kind of intentional effort to make sure we don't see disproportionate impact on a range of issues. Let me ask this.
▶ 1:46:03Warnock: As usta -- an conducted any disparate impact analysis of the reorganization plan to determine if there is any disproportionate harm to any particular groups of staff or farmers?
▶ 1:46:20Judge Vaden: Not to my knowledge because the plan has not been finalized yet?
▶ 1:46:25Sen. Warnock: Will you commit to doing so and sharing with the committee?
▶ 1:46:29Judge Vaden: We take into account civil rights responsibilities in anything we do.
▶ 1:46:35Sen. Warnock: Will you conduct a disparate impact analysis.
▶ 1:46:42Judge Vaden: You have my word that everything we do won't be based on race.
▶ 1:46:46Sen. Warnock: I take that as a no.
▶ 1:46:50Sen. Moran: And thank you for your presence today. I appreciate to be -- the chance to be here and hear what you have to say. I am pleased that in three weeks on the job, you seem so knowledgeable about the details of the department of agriculture. I express my appreciation for the idea that work by federal employees and work for federal taxpayers and constituents, particularly, farmers and ranchers can be accomplished outside the D.C. area.
▶ 1:47:21Sen. Moran: I have been through this issue with you previously. In earlier administrations. I was pleased by the decision to have two research agencies relocated in kansas city. I will leave off the word missouri in that explanation. But, two agencies located in kansas city.
▶ 1:47:43Sen. Moran: I want to know, do you anticipate moving any functions of ts aa or fas outside the district of columbia?
▶ 1:47:55Judge Vaden: I don't want to give a definitive yes or no answer. As you know, our trade in foreign agriculture affairs missionary that congress instructed us to create in the 2008 farm bill is a special animal because its focus is international rather than domestic. It is basically a diplomatic corps for american farmers, ranchers, and foresters.
▶ 1:48:25Judge Vaden: Given the specific focus of the agency, while I cannot guarantee there will not be some employee that gets relocated, I think that agency, when we are looking at what it is we are trying to do, and that agencies focus is international rather than domestic, largely, that it might be among the lesser affected missionaries.
▶ 1:48:46Sen. Moran: And the kansas city commodity office historically played a significant role in it the function of international food aid programs, particularly, food for peace. Do you see the functions continuing under the reorganization?
▶ 1:49:01Judge Vaden: All functions that remain with the department of agriculture, by statute, or unaffected. We cannot, with this reorganization, add to or reduce from the statutory responsibilities congress has given to the agency.
▶ 1:49:17Sen. Moran: Do you have any insight in what sub agencies, if any, could move to kansas city? Kansas city is home to the rma compliance office and the domestic inspection operations office for the federal grant inspection service. Do you have thoughts about those?
▶ 1:49:38Judge Vaden: We don't have finalized lists. With regard to our n/a, it's an agency where, because of its function, many of the people are already out in the field. And some of them are remote and they are remote for a reason, not because it became cool five years ago, but because their job requires them to be on the road. This reorganization plan does not affect that.
▶ 1:50:03Rump -- Sen. Moran: Ran. And I would add with the move of ers and nifa to kansas city in the first trump administration that was confirmed by the actions of secretary phil sachs.
▶ 1:50:18Rump -- Sen. Moran: There were efforts at one time to reverse the decision and secretary bosak -- which secretary ph secretary p -- vilsack did not
▶ 1:50:48Rump -- Sen. Moran: Do. I am pleased with the assistance that federal employees at usda return to federal positions. True?
▶ 1:50:55Judge Vaden: One thing I will note of bipartisan agreement during today's hearing is it appears members of both sides of the aisle are sick of teams meetings and teleworking. We at usda are on that bandwagon. We want our employees in the office.
▶ 1:51:18Rep. Moore: Ran you mentioned --
▶ 1:51:25Sen. Moran: You mentioned mbath. You mentioned things needing to be done. What are those things and how will you accomplish it?
▶ 1:51:34Judge Vaden: I know I need to take a trip out there to see it myself. I have a more in-depth briefing on my calendar in the next couple weeks and after I have the briefing I will know more.
▶ 1:52:05Judge Vaden: I don't want to senator hoeven to receive any additional considerations than I do. In addition to talking about relocation, I would love to have the conversation about the national agro bioscience facility I have been involved in since my days in the house 20 plus years ago.
▶ 1:52:32Sen. Schiff: I won't repeat except to say I have -- I share bipartisan concerns raised about the creation of the plan without input from impacted agencies or congress. One of the chief messages of usda supporting this is moving offices and services closer to american farmers.
▶ 1:52:59Sen. Schiff: California is the number one add producing state in the union. -- agriculture producing state in the union and yet the proposed hub is in salt lake city, more than 500 miles from the central valley. My understanding is, none of the other five top agriculture producing states will enjoy the presence of one of these regional hubs.
▶ 1:53:19Sen. Schiff: My question is, why wasn't a hub placed closer to the largest agriculture producing state or any other of the top five agriculture producing states?
▶ 1:53:33Judge Vaden: Fair question. While there are no hub locations in california itself, nearly all of our hub locations are closer to california than everybody being in washington, D.C.. With regards to your point about why california does not have a hub location come the simple answer is cost-of-living. We were looking at the cost of living, for reasons I noted.
▶ 1:54:01Judge Vaden: We want people to join usda to build a career, and be able to purchase a home. The locations we chose, salt lake city being among the cheapest cost of living on the list, allow that opportunity. Unfortunately, it's more difficult to do that in california.
▶ 1:54:22Sen. Schiff: There will be a huge cost to the relocation of all the staff. If indeed, staff choose to relocate. In 2019, half of the staff at the two agencies that were then part of the reorganization plan did not relocate. The gao, in addition to the point that senator warnock made also found a tremendous loss of expertise in the relocation, and that the new hires were very junior and lacked the experience that was lost in the relocation.
▶ 1:54:53Sen. Schiff: Have you done an estimate of what the expected attrition is if 50% of employees did relocate? Do you expect to lose 50% of these employees?
▶ 1:55:03Judge Vaden: We expect better results this time around because we have learned lessons from ers and nifa, looking at places focused on cost of living and looking at where we already were and had a footprint of usda employees with whom new employees could cooperate. Given what we are trying to sell , we are looking to build the future of usda, not just maintain the present.
▶ 1:55:38Sen. Schiff: What is your estimate of the attrition? It is 50% of the last reorganization. What is the percentage?
▶ 1:55:48Judge Vaden: We don't have a specific number at this time.
▶ 1:55:52Sen. Schiff: No regional offices in california. We are losing an agriculture research service office in california. The $20 billion in disaster relief, that aid includes a broad authority to deliver assistance through block grants to states despite california expressing interest in the legislation having no limits usda announced a narrow set of qualifications.
▶ 1:56:18Sen. Schiff: It essentially excludes all but a few states in the southeast. Moreover, U.S. -- usda announced it was resending all but one regional conservation partnership award for state and all six california awards were canceled. Some of these projects at the same goals as projects in other states, like, my colleague, senator fetterman, in pennsylvania.
▶ 1:56:45Sen. Schiff: I hope that you can understand -- and this is not to denigrate pennsylvania. It's just that california would like to enjoy the same thing. My question is, all of california's conservation program grants canceled. California does not qualify for disaster assistance under the narrow definition. California gets no regional office. California loses one of its existing offices.
▶ 1:57:09Sen. Schiff: It's hard not to perceive this as a political calculation rather than one in the best interest of farmers, given our dominance in agriculture. What do you have to say to california farmers who are feeling like the administration and president is not representing them, that he is punishing them because the state did not vote for him?
▶ 1:57:31Judge Vaden: That's not the case at all. With regards to moving more usda employees much closer to california than washington, D.C., our employees will have more ready access to your state. With regard to your notation about the ars facility I would note that the proposed closure of it is not a creature of the secretaries reorganization. Instead, it's part of the presidents budgetary proposal to this body.
▶ 1:57:59Judge Vaden: I am well aware congress holds the power of the purse and make the final decision on what will get funded. Finally, with regard to disaster assistance, I know the first level of the block grant funding that we announced focused on those who had crop insurance. And, excepting those specialty crop producers that are eligible for the current round of block grants. Specialty crops were left out.
▶ 1:58:30Judge Vaden: There is a second tranche that was noted that has yet to be announced. It is designed to include so called shallow losses. Which, as you know, our loss is not covered by crop insurance. I would love to talk more with you about that in the future as we move towards rolling out the proposal.
▶ 1:58:49Sen. Schiff: I will take you up on that invitation and let me say this. The fact of the california office is being closed as a budgetary decision rather than as a reorganization decision does not give californians any comfort. They just know they are losing an office and losing access. In terms of an office in utah being only 500 miles away, that's also not much comfort to california farmers.
▶ 1:59:16Sen. Schiff: Particularly, when california farmers, I think if that is the choice, would rather have the experience of the current usda employees in washington than an inexperienced group of employees in utah. The proof will be in the pudding. Right now california grants are canceled. Right now, california does not qualify for disaster assistance.
▶ 1:59:37Sen. Schiff: However that is justified or rationalized, the proof will be whether resources actually get to california farmers and that is the standard we will hold the administration to.
▶ 1:59:49Sen. Boozman: , senator justice.
▶ 1:59:54Sen. Justice: Listen. You know, I totally understand that with people being relocated it can be a stressful time. I get that completely. But, let me say this.
▶ 2:00:17Sen. Justice: At one time, not long ago, our family farm had grown to a size where we were probably really close to the biggest cash farmers east of the mississippi river. Corn, wheat, soybeans. Would you not think, of all the senators, I ought to know, I ought to really know what is happening and what is going on?
▶ 2:00:47Sen. Justice: We are farming in multiple states. I ought to really know the pulse of the farmers, the ranchers, the foresters, I ought to know. For god sakes. -- for god's sake, of everything in the world I ought to know about, I ought to know about this and I can tell you that it would have been great if you said, we will build one of these locations in west virginia.
▶ 2:01:18Sen. Justice: That would be great. We are up close to two thirds of the population of the country and our cost of living is great. Our people are wonderful. It would've been great. Here's the deal. Here's the thing you have to ask. Go ask the farmers. I am sure you have done exactly that. Go ask the foresters. Go ask the ranchers. One question. Is this working?
▶ 2:01:50Sen. Justice: They will say ain't no way. So for god's sakes a-livin' why do we have to run all over the place with our hair on fire going nuts over simply disk? It's not working. Literally, these people have given us so much it's off the chart.
▶ 2:02:23Sen. Justice: Coach has a real, real understanding because he has the pulse of the people. He is right with the people. He is right with our farmers. There is nobody in the world that could be more with our farmers that I am. All that said, think, these people have given us innovation. They are the most productive people on the planet. And we are losing them.
▶ 2:02:54Sen. Justice: And coach just said the suicide rates are off the charts. We lose thousands of farms every year. You will lose more this year. Right now. All that said, what in the world are we trying to pretend to ourselves that absolutely this thing is working and working in D.C.?
▶ 2:03:16Sen. Justice: What you are saying to the world is, all we are trying to do is put these people closer to the polls, the pulse of what is going on. We are trying to do it in a way that is equitable in every way, cost-of-living, great people, great resources, all that stuff. We are trying to do all that. Look. I am a white-haired new guy on the block that has done a lot of stuff.
▶ 2:03:47Sen. Justice: I have done one whale of a lot of justice. Absolutely, I know what is going on in the farm community, the 4th street community, our ranching community. I know. It's high time we try to do something to reward and help and make easier and everything else for all those people that are busting their you know what for all of us every day. Mr. chairman, I don't have any questions.
▶ 2:04:18Sen. Justice: All I am telling you is, we absolutely need to move and do the best we can for these great people tomorrow. Mr. chairman, thank you.
▶ 2:04:31Sen. Boozman: Thank you, senator fetterman.
▶ 2:04:36Sen. Fetterman: , thank you, Mr. chairman. Hello, judge vaden. I am sure you are aware because you are an expert in part of this industry. So, you probably know pennsylvania is our largest industry.
▶ 2:04:53Sen. Fetterman: I think that we can all agree that at least in my state, I assume it is probably, nationally, that the vast majority of the parts of my state are very red and more aligned with the gop. For me, and I think we agree, that agriculture is bipartisan. That is the way I approach this kind of thing.
▶ 2:05:18Sen. Fetterman: I am often advocating for the kinds of parks in pennsylvania -- parts of pennsylvania that may be won't vote for me. Because I think it is an incredibly difficult job to be a farmer. I revere what they do for our nation.
▶ 2:05:36Sen. Fetterman: Today, though, I am here to express my concern because I, today, am the voice of the unions who are really concerned based on your choice to relocate. That is what I really wanted to bring up. I am concerned. There was not any negotiation or anything with the unions for this in advance.
▶ 2:06:07Sen. Fetterman: When e.r.a. And nifa was relocated in 2019, workers were promised relocation incentives. I have the signed agreement between them. Outlining the relocation. Can I have unanimous consent it be entered into the record? I do believe the department walked back this promise a little bit.
▶ 2:06:37Sen. Fetterman: Are you committed to covering all relocation expenses for usda staff that choose to move or are forced because this is part of the plan?
▶ 2:06:46Judge Vaden: Senator, congress has a cap day have put, by statute -- -- they have put, by statute on the maximum amount of relocation assistance we can provide. However, with and that range we have a lot of flexibility and as I mentioned earlier in the hearing, it is our intent to cover these employees expenses within the bounds set by congress.
▶ 2:07:14Sen. Fetterman: Thank you great answer. That's thank you. Great answer. I appreciate the department being available for a staff briefing yesterday. I just really want to make sure that the voice of the union is heard here. I want to commit to more union engagement through all love this.
▶ 2:07:40Sen. Fetterman: I would like to invite you to help facilitate meetings with union leaders and other members it to be more a part of this process. I assume you are open to that?
▶ 2:07:52Judge Vaden: Absolutely.
▶ 2:07:55Sen. Fetterman: In my last-minute -- are you familiar with the spotty lantern fly? Sepulveda and yes. As a matter of fact I saw some in washington, D.C. last week, sadly.
▶ 2:08:12Sen. Fetterman: I love stomping them.
▶ 2:08:16Judge Vaden: I did some of that myself near city center.
▶ 2:08:22Sen. Fetterman: I am really concerned about that and gracias -- invasive species. It seems like you are aware of it. Can you assure pencil voc -- pennsylvania farmers from the lantern fly control programs want to be interrupted?
▶ 2:08:38Judge Vaden: As part of the reorganization proposal, it specifically notes the importance of ensuring nothing interferes with the important work done, whether looking at new world's grew warm, the spotted lantern fly, or a future threat to come. Everything we do will be implemented in a way that does not affect the important work in this area.
▶ 2:09:01Judge Vaden: And the final point on that is nearly all the people involved in battling these invasive species are already on the front line, not located in washington, D.C..
▶ 2:09:13Sen. Fetterman: Thank you.
▶ 2:09:19Sen. Boozman: Senator ernst.
▶ 2:09:22Sen. Ernst: Thank you charm in bozeman for holding this hearing and welcome back to -- chairman boozman for holding this hearing and welcome back to the committee judge vaden. I have spoken with you and a secretary rollins at length about the issue we are talking about today. First, getting our folks back into the office. It has been very important to me.
▶ 2:09:51Sen. Ernst: Consolidating or selling off unused office space and moving U.S. -- usda closer to those it is meant to serve, our farmers and rural communities. Thank you for making this a priority. The status quo is forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for billions in deferred maintenance. We don't hear a lot of that talked about.
▶ 2:10:18Sen. Ernst: But there is deferred maintenance and ongoing operating costs, all for buildings which are almost entirely empty. Last week, 78% of the seats in the usda south building were not filled. It represents a significant improvement from the past number of years.
▶ 2:10:38Sen. Ernst: When a secretary -- when secretary vilsack sat in that seat a year ago, he exposed evidence revealing the usda headquarters building had an 11% utilization rate in 2023. He said at whistleblower letter I received "is not even close to correct." to the usda building usage at that time.
▶ 2:11:11Sen. Ernst: Folks, secretary vilsack lied. Thanks to this administration's dedication to transparency, I have the data to back that up. In february, 20 24, as the secretary testified before the committee and told us there was nothing to see, usda's three main washington, D.C. office buildings had barely over 13% of their seats filled.
▶ 2:11:41Sen. Ernst: Unfortunately for taxpayers, usda is not the only agency holding onto unaffordable properties that are nearly vacant. It includes nearly 7700 vacant federal buildings and another 22 -- 22,000 -- 2200 largely empty.
▶ 2:12:00Sen. Ernst: To fix this the senate must pass my for-sale act to dispose of underutilized buildings including the agriculture south building and return the money from the sales to the taxpayers. We need more agencies to follow the lead of secretary rollins and usda. That said it is a great plug for my for-sale act.
▶ 2:12:25Sen. Ernst: Deborah terry -- deputy secretary vaden we have not heard outrage from our colleagues when it comes to the biden administration when they capture the usda workforce almost entirely remote and our offices sat empty. And we are hearing concerns about relocating positions into the very communities usda is supposed to serve. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
▶ 2:12:57Sen. Ernst: Can you expand on the main factors that led to the usda to consolidate offices in the D.C. region and move positions to the other states?
▶ 2:13:05Sec. Vaden: First, let me thank you for your leadership on the issue. You were focusing on telework, the inefficiencies it created and the vastly empty government buildings that covered the district of columbia before it was cool. Thank you for doing that.
▶ 2:13:28Sec. Vaden: Like you, I got a chuckle when I read the letter sent to be monday night with the concerns expressed about meetings only done via telework and who is going to be at the department manning the store. As you know, that was the biden administration. That was usda for the past four years. Drive by the within building, the south building, the parking lots were empty.
▶ 2:13:51Sec. Vaden: In the trump administration we want people in the office but as you noted even when we got all of our employees in the office, we are still not reaching the congressionally mandated threshold of 60% occupancy. That is not a high bar. That is 40% vacant. With regard to the south building, on high attendance sunday they used to call it at my church, we hit 36.9%. >> that is the high mark?
▶ 2:14:21Sec. Vaden: That is barely half of what congress has mandated the building should hold which is only 60% in order for us to keep it. What drove our consideration was fairness to the taxpayer asking them can we expect them to foot the bill for a building that is largely empty and obviously in the executive branch we are charged with carrying out the laws that congress passed.
▶ 2:14:52Sec. Vaden: You made your intent incredibly clear when you passed the act by a vote of 97-1 and we are following. >> I am so thankful for that. I'm glad we are going through this exercise now to move our folks out to the people we are serving, farmers and rural communities.
▶ 2:15:17Sec. Vaden: I am going to add to the record senator marshall was talking about kansas state university being the first land-grant institution. I will note that iowa was the first state to accept the moral act of 1862 which established our land-grant universities but iowa state university was the first institution to open its doors to coed students. Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 2:15:50Chair Boozman: Thank you and thank you for your today. Again, doing this on very short notice. The hearing record will remain open for five business days. That concludes our hearing. It is now adjourned.