▶ 0:18:18Chair Capito: The presence of a quorum, so now I call the business meeting to order. The information the members of the committee, ranking member whitehouse and I will deliver overstatements and we will vote on the pending nominee. After roll call vote, members who wish to speak on the nomination may do so. I want to thank mike collins for attending today's business meeting. Today we are considering the nomination of jeffrey hall to lead the epa office of enforcement and compliance assurance.
▶ 0:18:49Chair Capito: Mr. hall has expense as a litigator, prosecutor, and advisor to the the primitive justice and in practice providing a broad understanding of the enforcement needs. Oeca is charged with enforcing the rules under the clean water act and the toxics substance control act.
▶ 0:19:15Chair Capito: The office must work with regional epa offices in partnership with state government, tribal governments, and other federal agencies to promote regulatory compliance and enforce the nation's environmental laws and regulations. The previous administration placed an outright emphasis on penalizing regulated entities rather than working with them on compliance. Oeca needs to strike a balance .
▶ 0:19:48Chair Capito: It will adjust to missions of law to protect our resources. Strahl's understood -- Mr. hall's understanding is presented with his testimony before the can, making him well qualified to lead oeca. I urge my colleagues to support his nomination and will turn to ranking member whitehouse for his opening statement.
▶ 0:20:11Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you. You will not be surprised I take a different view. Mr. Mr. hall -- Mr. hall is yet another crony.
▶ 0:20:32Sen. Whitehouse: In two years I trump line firm in two years at a trouble line firm -- in two years, he worked at a truck aligned firm.
▶ 0:20:51Sen. Whitehouse: A directive to scale back enforcement that might unduly burden fossil fuel including all enforcement against methane pollution including the big methane leakers who are so bad they don't even meet their own industry leak standards, and adding political reviews to energy related I.e. Fossil fuel related matters.
▶ 0:21:13Sen. Whitehouse: In june, epa dismissed and is -- an administrative complete against a trump mega donor and former pam bondi employer. The complaint alleged misuse at a detention facility where a separate lawsuit alleges prison guards sprayed chemicals directly on inmates.
▶ 0:21:34Sen. Whitehouse: When asked at his confirmation about this abrupt dismissal, hall who oversaw the office claimed no involvement in insisted career personnel made the decision. And then he admitted he was briefed on the matter in may and he knew of likely additional violations. Trump issued an exact order discouraging all criminal regulatory enforcement.
▶ 0:21:56Sen. Whitehouse: A free pass for falsifying pollution data or engaging in dangerous behavior that causes death as an oil spill. On the civil side, doj filed fewer enforcement complaints in the first six months of an administration on epa's behalf than in any previous administration, helping polluters more. Epa's enforcement attorneys were offered a targeted buyout in august.
▶ 0:22:25Sen. Whitehouse: Hall did not contest a stronger staff. Appropriate for polluters I would say. Republicans stalled president biden's oeca nominee for two years and now rush to install someone who sees his job to advance american energy dominance. That is truck speak for fossil fuel polluters.
▶ 0:22:47Sen. Whitehouse: Once upon a time, republicans used to be against amnesty, for law and order, and against government picking winners and losers. Now, polluters are getting their agents on the inside to dismantle proper enforcement. I am not going to be a part of this. I will vote no on Mr. hall and urge my colleagues to do the same.
▶ 0:23:08Chair Capito: Thank you. Does anybody wish to talk on the nominee while we are waiting to fill out the deus here? So we will hold for just a minute then.
▶ 0:34:16Chair Capito: I realize he has other committees that are requiring roll call vote as well, but as you know, the rules of the committee, we do have particularly on this boat which will pretty much be a party-line vote, probably will be. We are waiting for one senator, so let's just hold another couple minutes. If she does not come, we will come with another strategy.
▶ 0:39:55Chair Capito: All right. If I can have everybody's attention, I think 25 minutes is pretty long so what I will do is adjourn the business meeting -- recess the business meeting so hopefully we can mete off the floor during the 11:00 votes. I would ask the witnesses to go ahead and move forward. For the second portion. My apologies to all of us in the room. I appreciate it.
▶ 0:40:48Chair Capito: All right. Here we go. I am calling this hearing to order and welcome our witnesses. Thank you so much. I apologize for the delay. I also want to congratulate adam tell on his recent confirmation. Hanging by a thread until the very end but you made it across the finish line in our final vote in august. Today we will conduct oversight of the U.S.
▶ 0:41:13Chair Capito: Army corps of engineers and the implement edition of the prior water development resources act. Since 2014, this committee has kept to a biannual schedule and look forward to keeping on track with that record. It authorizes water resource studies and projects and sets national priorities for the civil rights program. The corps does critical work across the nation.
▶ 0:41:45Chair Capito: This work protect the lives and livelihoods of many of americans -- of many americans and facilitate commerce throughout our country and internationally so the time of these laws consistent with intent is essential. The corps is actively working on a number of projects I will mention because they are critically important to my state of west virginia. The lower mud river flood risk management project in west virginia has been a priority of mine.
▶ 0:42:12Chair Capito: In 2022, I was able to increase the federal share of that project from 65% to 90%. This change brought in the support we needed without creating financial strain on our state. In 2023, I also secured another $190 million for this project, bringing the total to $287 million in funding, delivering on the federal side of the funding of the equation to make this project happen.
▶ 0:42:38Chair Capito: Last month, west virginia signed an amendment to the project, a partnership agreement to formalize the new capturing agreement which allows the project to resume. Secretary telle, thank you for being there. I know that was your first visit in your new official position, and I think you for joining us for that ceremony. The state of west virginia committed to matching the federal funds for the flood risk studies.
▶ 0:43:05Chair Capito: In june of 2016, west virginia experienced flooding at historic rates. Leading to tragic deaths and devastation. The basin study is a direct response to this. 2024, and increase the federal cashier for future projects.
▶ 0:43:28Chair Capito: It also increase the ability for the corps to carry out smaller projects for debris and effect and removal, which is critical to reducing the severity of flooding in many areas of I am sure everybody's state, particularly ours. The fifth and final part is the megaproject. It continues to make significant progress. In september of 2024, hurricane helene led to high water levels in rivers and streams across the east coast well beyond the areas hit directly by the storm.
▶ 0:43:57Chair Capito: The new river was among those affected and resulted in historic water levels against the bluestone dam. The dam was able to withstand the rising waters and prevented an estimated $577 million in damages. Once completed, the project will protect more than 150,000 people and $20 billion worth of infrastructure. Unfortunately, there is more to be done. This year alone, several parts of west virginia experienced devastating flooding.
▶ 0:44:28Chair Capito: In february, flooding resulted in the loss of lives and necessitated major rescue and recovery efforts. The damage wiped out the only route to the welch community hospital and cause major infrastructure issues in wyoming and mingo county. Ohio and marion counties also experienced significant damage and loss of lives following flash flooding on father's day weekend.
▶ 0:44:52Chair Capito: My congressional colleagues and I supported governor's request for presidential disaster declarations, and I am grateful to president trump for his approval of these requests. I would continue to work -- I will continue to work with the corps and government officials to determine if additional authorities are needed to help mitigate the impacts from future flood events. Thank you again for the witnesses to be here. I now turn to my ranking member whitehouse for his opening statement.
▶ 0:45:17Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you for this hearing today. Thank you secretary telle and lieutenant general graham for appearing. As you know, one of my most vexing problems, one the corps has refused to remedy, is chronic underfunding of projects. For my ocean state, that is a problem.
▶ 0:45:39Sen. Whitehouse: With flood risks on the rise nationwide, coastal areas face the most severe increases due to rising sea levels and more frequent extreme rainfall events. The national flood risk assessment, coastal cities outrank inland cities by all measures of substantial flood risks.
▶ 0:46:00Sen. Whitehouse: The not partial -- the non-partial cbo says the risk is more than twice that of inland communities. Coastal communities are projected to see even sharper increases in flood risks over the next two decades. Greater flood and storm risks are in turn contributing to a property insurance crisis that threatens to trash our entire economy.
▶ 0:46:25Sen. Whitehouse: When risk mixed property uninsurable, the property also becomes an mortgage book -- un mortgable. The state situation, projects year after year received between 20 and 100 times less funding than inland flood risk management contracts.
▶ 0:46:56Sen. Whitehouse: That simply is not good enough. The corps needs to tackle problems like this one head-on and embrace for more. Assistant secretary telle, I supported your nomination and confirmation because I know you understand and appreciate the critical role congressional oversight plays in ensuring federal agencies deliver for people.
▶ 0:47:16Sen. Whitehouse: I value your commitment to maintaining an open line of communication of senator capito and me and particularly appreciate your willingness to engage with committee staff on a regular basis to keep the corps accountable. In prior testimony before this committee, you spoke of your formative experience helping to secure funding and resources for the state of mississippi's recovery from devastating effects of hurricane katrina.
▶ 0:47:40Sen. Whitehouse: And you know from experience managing the fema portfolio that disasters do not differentiate between red and blue states. Under your leadership, I expect to remove the political bias so latent in the corps fiscal year 2025 construction plan.
▶ 0:48:00Sen. Whitehouse: Shifted over $250 million in construction funding from blue states to red states, completely eliminating funding for four critical california projects fund projects in texas that did not even make the cut in the corps's fiscal year 2025 budget. Assistant secretary telle, I expect you to put an end to that. Egregious partisanship does not serve the army corps and it does not serve the american people.
▶ 0:48:26Sen. Whitehouse: I also expect to see prior -- see progress on project delivery. The trump administration's tax on the federal workforce has only made this worse. Just a few months, doge voluntary early retirement have hollowed out core offices across the agency workforce reductions, undermining mission execution.
▶ 0:48:55Sen. Whitehouse: Some poor district offices have lost as much as 20% of their staff, and all have likely lost personnel. The prolonged trump hiring freezes exacerbate the hiring shortage. As a result of this doge driven chaos, offices are contracting out work at a higher cost or paying employees overtime to complete it while continuing to pay salaries to employees who no longer report for duty under the drp. This is not a matter of workforce morale.
▶ 0:49:26Sen. Whitehouse: The drp has jeopardized mission-critical operations and increased cost. You have your work cut out for you. I look forward to working with you and hope you will acknowledge the challenges, roll up your sleeves, and work cooperatively this committee to address them. Thank you very much, madam chair.
▶ 0:49:43Chair Capito: Thank you. Our first witness is the 14th assistant secretary of the army for civil works, adam telle. Secretary telle as I mentioned in my opening statement was easily confirmed to serve in this role in the senate by a bipartisan vote. Mr. telle spent two decades in the government, as my clerk and as a special assistant to the president in the first trump administration. Welcome, secretary telle.
▶ 0:50:15Chair Capito: Thank you for visiting west virginia. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:50:18Sec. Telle: Thank you, chairman capito, ranking member whitehouse, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss the army's civil works program. I am honored to be the 14th assistant secretary and the top official responsible for the U.S. army corps engineers civil works.
▶ 0:50:47Sec. Telle: I was nominated, appeared in a hearing in may, and was confirmed by the senate on august 2. I begin working this role immediately thereafter and have been on the job for six and a half weeks. During this time, I have been working alongside general graham and his team to ensure the army civil rights program delivers a president's vision for our country and on its critical vision which this committee has had an important role defining.
▶ 0:51:13Sec. Telle: As I said, during the consideration of my nomination before this committee, I am under to help lead the civil works mission. Very few government agency missions capture the interest of american citizens, landowners, communities, job creators, and represented us in washington quite like this one. The U.S. army corps of engineers originated in 1775. Before the declaration of independence was even signed.
▶ 0:51:44Sec. Telle: The america we know today developed in large part as a result of the work of the corps. Corps was given to many missions. Flood damage reduction and ensuring the future availability of our aquatic resources. Because the civil rights program is important to the american public and their elected representative's in washington, during my first weeks I have been working to establish greater consistency and account ability across the four layers of this enterprise which consist of my office and the headquarter divisions and districts.
▶ 0:52:16Sec. Telle: I intend to spend my time in this job ensuring the corps carries out its missions to benefit the american public as effectively, as quickly, and as efficiently as possible. We must optimize our program for speed and cost if we want to do our part to protect lives and commerce as president trump is delivering on his vision to make sure the united states -- our partners on capitol hill and particularly on this committee have been pivotal in supporting this enterprise.
▶ 0:52:46Sec. Telle: I request your partnership as I work with general graham to ensure the civil rights program evolves to become more efficient and consistent to meet our modern demands. To deliver against the workload, we must work in partnership to drive efficiency, collaboration, and results in an environment that is resource constrained. In addition to driving more efficiency to the civil rights program, we must lift the burden on the public.
▶ 0:53:17Sec. Telle: This committee committed to ending the last five decades under the clean water act of 1972. The army has already should guidance that follows the supreme court decision. And it will move quickly to issue a permanent definition that reduces redtape, cuts overall permitting costs, lowers the cost of doing business in communities across the country, and continues to protect america's navigable waters.
▶ 0:53:48Sec. Telle: In july, my office made much-needed changes to our national environmental policy act implement procedures that will reform, modernized, and expedite the reviews and limiting unnecessary delays and ensure the growth of reliable infrastructure projects across the nation. We also recognize the opportunities and benefits provided to this program through 2024 and previous orders this committee has had an important role in shaping.
▶ 0:54:17Sec. Telle: These efforts address many issues. I look forward to gaining insight today about your views and interests so that together we can serve america's vital infrastructure needs. Thank you, chairman capito, ranking member whitehouse, and the members of this committee. I look forward to any questions you have. >> the U.S.
▶ 0:54:44Sec. Telle: Military needs to stop desecrating hawaiian lands and get out.
▶ 0:54:52Chair Capito: Thank you, secretary telle. Appreciate the opening statement. Next, we will hear from lieutenant general graham, the 56 chief of engineers and commanding general the U.S. army corps of engineers. General graham assumed these duties last september after serving as the corps deputy commanding general for civil and emergency operations. As commanding general, is responsible for over 30,000 civilian employees and 800 military personnel and more than 110 countries.
▶ 0:55:23Chair Capito: General graham, welcome, thank you for serving, thank you for being here, and we look forward to your opening statement.
▶ 0:55:29Lt. Gen. Graham: Chairman capito , ranking member whitehouse, members of the committee, I am very honored to testify before you today in regard to oversight of the U.S. army corps of engineers civil rights program and the implementation of the water resources development act.
▶ 0:55:47Lt. Gen. Graham: Through the civil rights program, the army corps of works with partners to study chemical, and operant projects focusing on three main mission areas of commercial navigation, flood storm damage reduction, and aquatic restoration. The navigation program which consists of our cultural and great lakes channels as well as the inland rivers and intercoastal waterways underpins much of the national economy ensuring commodities can move reliably and efficiently.
▶ 0:56:15Lt. Gen. Graham: Our flood and storm damage reduction program maintains 746 dams, over 13,000 miles of federal levees, and 450 miles of shore protection. Those systems provide an average a staggering $200 billion per year in flood damage avoided. I certainly want to think this committee as was mentioned by the chairman for supporting the corps civil rights program.
▶ 0:56:46Lt. Gen. Graham: With your commitment since 2014 to passing the biannual resources development act. Those acts have provided what is necessary to address the changing needs of the nation's water resources infrastructure. The order advanced the missions by authorizing new navigation, flood risk management, coastal storm management, and aquatic ecosystem restoration studies and projects across the country.
▶ 0:57:15Lt. Gen. Graham: The studies and projects when funded will strengthen the supply chain, better protect americans from flooding, and improve degraded aquatic environments. We deeply value the authorities you invested as. Our pledge is to put them to work to deliver for the american people. To that end, the army corps's objective is to deliver quality projects on schedule and within budget.
▶ 0:57:40Lt. Gen. Graham: Our current unscheduled rate, and I checked this morning, was 80%. That is low and that is undetectable. This performance is influenced by factors we can control and factors such as inflation we cannot control. Focusing on those things we can control, the army corps is committed to procedural improvements as Mr. telle spoke about in the following three areas. First, we have to get the engineering right. The focus is on maturity of the designs.
▶ 0:58:11Lt. Gen. Graham: I will not request authority to build new projects unless the design is advanced enough that we truly understand what we are proposing to build. That threshold is usually around the 35% level. We have not been doing that in the past. There are some nuances on how we need to work to break down large complex projects, and there are some nuances on cautionary studies for the cashiering of construction.
▶ 0:58:38Lt. Gen. Graham: We are committed to working through those nuances with this committee, which fundamentally we need to better understand what it is we need to bill before we ask you for authority to build it. The second thing, we need to get the project management right. We are focusing on crafting logical fully resourced schedules and sticking to them, ensuring we are delivering these important projects with a great sense of urgency. As general kelly puts it, hussle. If we stay on schedule, we are likely to stay.
▶ 0:59:08Lt. Gen. Graham: Third thing, we have to get the team right. So in closing, the path to successful delivery is clear. Plan projects that really, fund them efficiently, and build them rapidly with the right team of master builders. I look forward to working with this committee to stay on that path. Thank you for the opportunity today and I look forward to addressing your questions.
▶ 0:59:33Chair Capito: Thank you, general. I appreciate it. I will take us for the first question for secretary telle. Many provisions provided in prior orders have gone largely un-implemented. It is required your office develop intimate a plan to congress on the implementation of not just 2024 but prior ones.
▶ 1:00:00Chair Capito: This plan must provide provisions that will provide implementation guidance or appropriations so my first question is, when can we expect the 2024 provisions to be finalized?
▶ 1:00:14Mr. Telle: Thank you for the question. My office and I know general graham's leadership takes seriously the work of this committee. I am committed to following the provisions in wrda following the law. As you point out, chairman capito, we owe you a plan about how to get that done.
▶ 1:00:43Mr. Telle: Each of these provisions is different. Telle te80 plus provisions we are working to implement. Some of them are straightforward and easy to implement. Some of them require implementation guidance as you point out. We have made determinations about which can be a committed and which require guidance.
▶ 1:01:06Mr. Telle: I will just say that it would be helpful to work with you to identify provisions we can address without triggering a large interagency process if we can get information to you that you need to do your job. We would be happy to work with you on that.
▶ 1:01:23Chair Capito: So I am asking if you have a date when you would put your plan forward with all of this implementation. My understanding is in 2024 we required you to submit to us a plan. Correct?
▶ 1:01:35Mr. Telle: Yes, that is correct.
▶ 1:01:37Chair Capito: Do you have a date when you will have that to us?
▶ 1:01:40Mr. Telle: I am not prepared to give you a specific date today.
▶ 1:01:43Chair Capito: Is that because it is 180 provisions and some are more complicated than others? Or why is that?
▶ 1:01:50Mr. Telle: Senator, at the heart of it is the article to branch of government is led by a chief executive and many of the provisions included implicate agencies and equities across the government. In order to speak with one executive branch voice and give you an answer that is correct, it necessarily involves coordination with a myriad of agencies that complicate our ability to get you the information you need so we can speak with one executive branch voice.
▶ 1:02:21Mr. Telle: Given that provision implicates a number of provisions that implicate other agencies, it is complex for us to deliver to you something you can count on that is right. But I am committed to doing that.
▶ 1:02:34Chair Capito: That is important. I think obviously for us to have it included in that wrda 2024, that plan is important to us. General graham, on the cost overrun issues, this is a consistently huge issue. We included several provisions intended to provide the corps with more time and resources to better study possible solutions, the needs that might be on the front-end.
▶ 1:03:04Chair Capito: Our intent is for the agency to spend less time reworking project plans after they have been authorized for construction. However, we do not want these provisions to be interpreted as directly from congress to the corps to go back to the days when the agency spend years or decades studying a single project. What additional steps are being taken to address the cost overruns? You addressed this a little bit in your opening statement, but if you could give a deeper dive on that.
▶ 1:03:29Lt. Gen. Graham: Thank you for that question. Every time we do not deliver a project on schedule, I get an email from the district engineer who explains what happened. And then we have some very pointed discussions on what was the root cause. A vast majority of the root causes are we did not know enough, as I spoke to in my opening statement, about the project before we ask you to authorize it.
▶ 1:03:56Lt. Gen. Graham: Probably a good way to visualize that is a lot of those authorizations were kind of at the conceptual 10% level, not the 35%. So basically, we authorized a house. A four bedroom house with a gas heater and three bedrooms. That is what is tripping as. Deacon got into the details more, the main thing we missed is the field investigations.
▶ 1:04:25Lt. Gen. Graham: We did not get all the survey data we need. We did not know this water resource business we are in. Elevations, those things are critical. Same thing goes with what property is associated with those surveys. What does the soil look like we will build upon? Fundamental stuff. We did not do nearly enough of that. We are working with secretary telle to come up with a common sense work rationale for moving this forward.
▶ 1:04:56Chair Capito: My time is running out here, but I would just ask, do you envision going back on pending projects and redoing this? Or is this from going forward the way you are going to do it on new projects?
▶ 1:05:10Lt. Gen. Graham: Certainly going forward.
▶ 1:05:12Chair Capito: Right.
▶ 1:05:13Lt. Gen. Graham: But for the projects that happen authorized and we have not built those yet, the design of those is sitting around the 10% level so it would be helpful to open those up, take a look at those. When congress and the administration are looking to fund this project, I can give you a realistic cost estimate.
▶ 1:05:32Chair Capito: All right. Senator whitehouse.
▶ 1:05:34Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you very much, chairman. Gentlemen, thank you both for being here. My coastal risk management concern is exemplified in the president's fiscal year 2026 budget which has $1.56 billion for the corps construction account with only $2 million recommended for coastal storm risk management.
▶ 1:06:00Sen. Whitehouse: I have talked about a 20 to one ratio.I have talked about a 100 to one ratio. This is an 80 21 ratio. If you drill down on the one, the $2 million, you find it will not fund a single project. It is for employee compensation claims to the department of labor. So that to me nets out to zero coastal management projects in the fiscal year 2026 budget.
▶ 1:06:30Sen. Whitehouse: What are we going to do about this?
▶ 1:06:34Mr. Telle: Senator whitehouse, you and I discussed this previously on several occasions, and it is something I have looked into in my six and a half weeks here on the job. You and I should compare numbers. The numbers I have for fy 26 are different than yours, and I want to make sure we are speaking from the same facts.
▶ 1:06:57Sen. Whitehouse: You be the name of the person on your team my team should talk to to go through the numbers before we have to have this conversation.
▶ 1:07:04Mr. Telle: Absolutely. Your team works closely with stacy brown.
▶ 1:07:08Sen. Whitehouse: Stacy brown. Go ahead.
▶ 1:07:10Mr. Telle: One of the things I wanted to point out to in going through these numbers is the vast majority of construction and investigations funding goes towards rehabilitating our dams. These are dams that were built over the decades that protect american cities from flood risk. They hold water better from that water back voting they hold water back from flooding the cities.
▶ 1:07:40Mr. Telle: Maintaining and rehabilitating those dams that are of a critical safety level. When you look at the new projects that are not dam elated in investigations and construction, the ratio you are discussing is more like 1.7 to one in the intercoastal. I just want to point out -- finland to coastal -- inland to coastal.
▶ 1:08:05Mr. Telle: I just want to point out the president's budget has prioritized those activities, and it does skew the numbers by want you to understand those are not new dams. They are in our inventory and have been in many cases for decades.
▶ 1:08:20Sen. Whitehouse: Were it not for this discrepancy, there would probably be a lot of coastal projects that would have been in your inventory for decades but because they were overlooked, they were not in your inventory for decades. It is a continuing problem and I look forward to working with you to find a sensible solution.
▶ 1:08:34Mr. Telle: Thank you sir.
▶ 1:08:36Sen. Whitehouse: You indicated your work on feasibility studies for nonstructural solutions, that is army corps speak for what? Nonstructural.
▶ 1:08:46Mr. Telle: Thank you for asking the question. In the case you are discussing, nonstructural refers to an activity that is not in keeping with the corps's long tradition of building and for structure that protects entire communities but rather going home by home and in many cases -- correct.
▶ 1:09:12Mr. Telle: Because we are not talking about a project were you provide some piece of flood control infrastructure and for the few homes still in harms way we elevate them. We are talking about going into entire regions using the united states army corps of engineers to go and home by home elevate. As I discussed with you yesterday, based on the initial results of some of this work at scale, we need to have a conversation about whether this is how you would like for the united states army corps of engineers to dedicate its efforts.
▶ 1:09:41Sen. Whitehouse: First of all, let me say I am eager for that discussion. There are other interests that can be brought to bear having to do with the national fund insurance program -- flood insurance program. There is a lot of messy work not done with our coasts. You coming in and doing all of it is the best solution, but neither is it the best solution to have you walk away. I have the example of louisiana large-scale nonstructural project of $600 million.
▶ 1:10:11Sen. Whitehouse: To raise 3462 homes across a 4700 square mile study area, which is a pretty big project. $600 million is pretty serious money for the army corps. But if you put that next to the ike dike in texas, the budget for that is closer to $60 billion. So it is 100 times more expensive to do the ike dike project.
▶ 1:10:42Sen. Whitehouse: In that context, it is important we come to a sensible common sense solution and not one that just as nonstructural is all done here.
▶ 1:10:49Mr. Telle: Senator, I agree with you and want to make clear general graham's team's directive to take a look at the structural program has not slowed work on the two pilot projects in louisiana and new york, the one you referenced. However, I would just say the early results I have been made aware of of that program would cause the cost to escalate far beyond the $600 million amount that you referenced.
▶ 1:11:20Mr. Telle: And quite frankly, I believe if we did not take a second look at this, we would be called before this committee for inefficiently using taxpayer dollars. I think your willingness to work with us to get this right -- we don't want to walk away from nonstructural solutions. We will always analyze them as alternatives. The question is whether the united states army corps of engineers is the appropriate entity to implement them.
▶ 1:11:49Sen. Whitehouse: I think I can safely say both the chair and I would like to work with you to get to a sensible solution that is not nonstructural. Thank you.
▶ 1:11:59Sen. Cramer: Thank you to our witnesses. Let me start out by thanking you. In wrda 2024, we passed the law that required, required, required the army to form the western water restriction committee. I had two plus years of stalling. By the way, it was due 90 days after it was implemented.
▶ 1:12:29Sen. Cramer: You stepped in, and I appreciate that. Many of the things we are talking about do not require, with all due respect, a brand-new elevation report. The land has been the same for a long, long time. But just forming the committee, thank you for doing that. It means a lot to be that you stepped up and did that. And on the topic we discussed a little bit, generally speaking the administration has embraced doing more with less, being more efficient with the people's money.
▶ 1:13:01Sen. Cramer: Not just throwing personnel at dollars after every challenge as if somehow that will magically fix things. It is a breath of fresh air and I am fully in support of it. In the past, especially with the corps, something we heard a lot as we just don't have enough staff to do things. So that means were going is good to be the same thing over and over. Engineers get to look at the same thing over and over and stalled longer with regard to the law.
▶ 1:13:27Sen. Cramer: I think this is about streamlining things and limiting regulations and ultimately reducing the workload, not just the workforce, but your workload. Specifically, Mr. secretary, with regard to the corps, deeply pre-covert levels are adequate to deliver a lot of the things we are hearing about today and in the task in front of you?
▶ 1:13:51Mr. Telle: Thank you for the question. Thank you for working with us on the western water committee. I agree with you that a larger bureaucracy does not necessarily mean better results for the american taxpayer. As you intelligently point out, the staffing levels within the united states army corps of engineers, we are at the staffing levels prior to the pandemic.
▶ 1:14:20Mr. Telle: I believe that with modern technology, with better forms of cooperation with our nonfederal -- -- I think about the project in fargo, in your state, I think we can deliver more to the american taxpayers with a staff that looks a lot like the staff prior to the pandemic. Thank you for addressing that, to answer your question.
▶ 1:14:42Sen. Kramer: Let's reduce the workload along with the workforce. Seems to me there's a lot of redundancy. Just listening to the discussion a little bit ago, well, throughout the morning, I find it frustrating that, that years go by. With regards to just one example, not just weeks, 2020, five years ago I passed a law that requires a report on how to deal with noxious leaks.
▶ 1:15:09Sen. Kramer: I hear it over and over from landholders that border the corn land. It's over three years late, the report. In other words, they are never going to do it. I'm sure that some well-intentioned bureaucrat has it in their pile, but the law didn't say get around to it when you can. What I was going to say about the nuance of things, when in doubt, obey the law.
▶ 1:15:37Sen. Kramer: I don't call my wife to see what I should do when I get picked up for speeding. I slow down. The laws are not arbitrary, they are not open ended. They are just do it, do your best. I'm glad you brought up technology. Because the farmers that farm the land right next to corn land know exactly how to do it.
▶ 1:16:02Sen. Kramer: You could just have a cup of coffee with the guy next door in they would tell you exactly how to get rid of the noxious weeds in the safe manner because the farmers make a living on that land. They aren't going to do it because the government told them they should, they are doing it to feed a hungry world and they know how. Let's default to yes. That's what I appreciate about you, Mr. secretary. You default to the possible. How creative can we get within the law to get to yes?
▶ 1:16:31Sen. Kramer: The default that the core for decades has been -- no, we can't do that. Even though the law said we had to. General, if you want to speak a minute or two about the noxious weeds issue? I don't know how familiar you are with it. It's over three years late now, that report. Why is that?
▶ 1:16:49Gen. Graham: Senator cramer, I believe that report as you alluded to is still under administrative review, but we want to be great neighbors with our partners up there and leverage every bit of local knowledge that we have with the farmers and tribes out there so that we can steward the land for the american people to the best of our ability.
▶ 1:17:09Sen. Kramer: Ok, good. Let's just get more of it back to the tribes in the farmers, they can steward it really well.
▶ 1:17:18Chair Capito: Senator merkley?
▶ 1:17:21Senator Merkley: Thank you, chair, and thanks to you for your work in the west. The first ship to rail container port is being worked on on the west coast and you have all been serving as the point for the permitting process for the channel modification and coordinating with federal agencies to upgrade the terminal it's an incredible opportunity to add to our ability to move
▶ 1:17:52Senator Merkley: Freight in a cost-effective fashion that keeps trucks off the road and enables us in a growing interdependent world to get products to market and supply chains to be effective. So, I appreciate that very much and I appreciate your operational efforts on the hatcheries, when the dams were built there was a promise made that these dams would be accompanied.
▶ 1:18:17Senator Merkley: My efforts are to make sure that the fish runs continue and that those go close to our heart and soul in the west, it's so incredibly important. And then the dredging projects involve various ports. Three questions that I'm going to get to hear, one minute a piece, they will be kind of rapid fire. First, the -- it's been three years since I met with the core down at the coal rivers hatchery.
▶ 1:18:45Senator Merkley: It became very clear that the biggest challenge there was a supply of clean water and, basically, the answer was we need a pipeline that goes further up the river to bring and cleaner water with a better filtration system. This hatchery supply is not only fish runs on the road but also a whole series of lakes in terms of trout. Incredibly important. In those three years we have gotten an electric line and six roads. To me, that's a one year project.
▶ 1:19:16Senator Merkley: Meanwhile, we are nowhere close to getting the large supply, the critical and essential heart of the hatchery challenge, as they have had a number of losses of different groups of fish as a result of contaminated water. How can we expedite the completion of the renovation of this essential hatchery? >> senator, thank you for the question and understanding the rapidfire request, we agree with you completely on the need to increase our U.S.
▶ 1:19:45Senator Merkley: Port capacity for competitiveness in the 21st century. Regarding the fish hatchery questions that you raised, I will refer to general graham on the details of the progress and say that in my review, this issue, there are clearly a number of equities indicated, including hydropower and other interests in your state. I would defer to general graham on the complicated nature of this.
▶ 1:20:09Gen. Graham: Thank you for the question and we understand the challenges at coal river. The design for the water treatment improvements you spoke to our at 85 percent. As I checked yesterday. The additional substation electrical work, the funding is on hand to do that for a 26 award.
▶ 1:20:30Gen. Graham: When I spoke to the portland district about all the fish hatcheries that we own, that others run, I had to give them a letter grade, they are all about c minas, d+. So, the direction I gave the division command was come up with a long-term capital reinvestment strategy.
▶ 1:20:49Sen. Merkley: Thank you and I will just keep pressing. This was the deal on the dams, that the hatcheries would be a very effective complementary component. Watching them deteriorate, in many places unable to fulfill their responsibilities that they have, that's extremely disturbing. It's not just an environmental issue.
▶ 1:21:16Sen. Merkley: It's an economic issue for commercial fisheries, sports fisheries, just for our whole connection to the ecosystem in the west. So, I will keep pressing. Thank you. I just don't think it should take years to do new roofs and an electrical cable and it shouldn't take forever to design, redesign, that 85% that 85% you referred to, the design work just seems to go on forever.
▶ 1:21:49Sen. Merkley: It's like one can always visit, revisit, and revisit, is this the best design? At some point you say that this is a plan that enough people have looked at, let's build the damme pipeline to get the water there, let's put in the state-of-the-art filtration system and do it, start spending the money on implementation rather than one more design contract. That's my energy about this. My passion about this.
▶ 1:22:17Sen. Merkley: There is a report from 2022 on the authorization of hydropower in the valley system. The portland district and northwest division completed the report but it is sitting somewhere and it echoes my colleague across the aisle. Where is that report sitting? Is it sitting at omb? At army corps headquarters?
▶ 1:22:42Sen. Merkley: It's very frustrating to see them completed and nobody ever takes action to say yeah, we will actually issue it.
▶ 1:22:51Mr. Telle: I will take that one, senator. It's important, when we get your information, that it speak for the entirety of the executive branch of government. That said, I am committed, and it may take longer than any of us would hope, but I am committed to following the law and getting you the report that you referenced as quickly as we possibly can.
▶ 1:23:17Sen. Merkley: Is it on the headquarters task or the omb desks?
▶ 1:23:22Mr. Telle: I don't know the particular report that you are referencing where it is within the agency, but it is important that the entire executive branch have the ability to speak and give you the right answer based on all of the information needed to gather across the inter-agency and we have got to be better at delivering that. >> he will give me an answer, though?
▶ 1:23:47Mr. Telle: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:23:49Sen. Merkley: I'm over time, no need to answer, but in 2020 we establish provisions for a 15% set-aside of the harbor maintenance trust fund for emerging ports, of which we have 14 on the oregon coast. That guidance required from 2020 has never been released. Thank you.
▶ 1:24:22Chair Capito: Before I call on senator ricketts, I want to announce that we are going to do our business meeting that was previously recessed, it will reconvene at 11:45 in the president's room off the senate floor. With that, I will go to senator ricketts.
▶ 1:24:42Senator Ricketts: Great, thank you chairman, senator, for this important oversight meeting of the army corps of engineers. Congratulations on your confirmation, glad you are there in your job, glad to work with you. I am pleased to be on this meeting because the army corps serves an important function in my state.
▶ 1:25:08Senator Ricketts: In 2019, when I was governor nebraska in the midwest experienced a devastating flood that hit many of our rivers, missouri in particular. Four people lost lives, farmers lost hundreds of millions in soybeans. Ranchers lost hundreds of millions in livestock. They estimated that the damage to nebraska alone was 2.6 billion. I worked closely with the core on this.
▶ 1:25:37Senator Ricketts: Together with the governors of iowa, kansas, and missouri, we partnered to launch planning assistance to states for a state study that we helped finance. The effort brought the core, governors, and local stakeholders together to make a better informed floodplain management decisions. At that time, the relationship with the core was rocky.
▶ 1:26:03Senator Ricketts: Too often, the people of nebraska had explanations about why it couldn't have heard, not being able to be done quickly, or not being done at all. At times it was an obstacle in not a partner and one that failed to put people first. This is a new opportunity, though, with Mr. telle: though, with Mr. telle and general graham leading the change. Yet more than six years later, many issues remain.
▶ 1:26:38Senator Ricketts: The $3 million three-year planning assistance study has taken five years and has caused more than $10 million. This is, again, a similar refrain that we have heard from other people, projects taking longer and costing more. Still, it hasn't changed how the core conducts their business. The study is yet to be finalized, but it's not clear that there will be any concrete actual steps in the plan for improvement.
▶ 1:27:03Senator Ricketts: Another part of the challenge lies in the 2018 master manual that governs the work of the core on the river. The roots of the problem go back to 2004, when amendments to the 1979 manual reversed their historic access. That ship finally scrambled those priorities for basic management. Making environmental complaints equally as important as that of life and property through flood mitigation.
▶ 1:27:32Senator Ricketts: The core must refocus management on the river and on the core values like water management and protecting people. Do you believe that the 2018 master manual puts this at the same level as protecting human life?
▶ 1:27:50Mr. Telle: I would defer to general graham on questions about the manual and the specifics. I would agree with your broader point, it is one that we have heard many times already in this hearing, which is that these projects costing too much and take too long.
▶ 1:28:09Mr. Telle: I am proud to report to you that under the president's leadership , the executive branch egg to agencies -- agencies that govern the issues you raised are working to follow the law to the letter of the law, not beyond what congress intended. There have been a number of actions taken with nepa, with the definition of waters of the united states as rendered by the sacco decision.
▶ 1:28:37Sen. Ricketts: I appreciate that, but I have limited time. Are you familiar with the 2018 master manual?
▶ 1:28:44Gen. Graham: Yes.
▶ 1:28:45Sen. Ricketts: Do you think it puts environmental concerns over life?
▶ 1:28:49Gen. Graham: No, we always put life and health safety first.
▶ 1:28:53Sen. Ricketts: Will you commit to continuing to do that?
▶ 1:28:56Gen. Graham: Absolutely.
▶ 1:28:57Sen. Ricketts: Great. It hasn't been happening in the past. Can you tell me why the planning assistance study has taken more than three years to get done?
▶ 1:29:07Gen. Graham: Not specifically to that, but often planning assistance to states is to provide a broad overview and to understand what is going on in those drainage basins. From there they can take the information to the state, local, or even federal level, tear it off into additional studies. We will confirm with your staff what exactly else they needed to find out.
▶ 1:29:30Sen. Ricketts: And he will commit to getting us that in a timely manner?
▶ 1:29:34Gen. Graham: Absolutely.
▶ 1:29:35Sen. Ricketts: A few seconds left, but since the last senator went over?
▶ 1:29:40Chair Capito: All yours.
▶ 1:29:41Sen. Ricketts: Thank you. Quickly here, critical industries on the missouri river must have equal flows. Originally the northwest division announced a release that would be set at a minimum of 12,000 cubic feet per second. That's december 1 through february of 2026.
▶ 1:30:04Sen. Ricketts: 2023, when river levels dropped low, two power station facilities in iowa were not able to generate power during an extremely cold stretch of time when we had very frigid temperatures. Will you commit to prioritizing energy reliability so that we can avoid disruptions to power generation for the next couple of years?
▶ 1:30:23Mr. Telle: Absolutely, the missouri river is one of the more complex rivers within the portfolio and we have to balance all interests and purposes, including flood risk and mitigation, as you point out, with energy production.
▶ 1:30:38Sen. Ricketts: What factors are considered when determining whether the updates to the water control manual are warranted?
▶ 1:30:46Gen. Graham: Senator, specifically we will get back to your staff on what would trigger that, but broadly it is large changes that we believe have happened in the watershed.
▶ 1:30:57Sen. Ricketts: Great. We will follow-up with you both. Thank you for the time. Madam chair? Thank you.
▶ 1:31:05Chair Capito: Senator padilla?
▶ 1:31:08Senator Padilla: I think you for that flexibility in advance. [laughter]
▶ 1:31:16Chair Capito: I'm in a good mood today. I don't know. [laughter]
▶ 1:31:19Sen. Padilla: I want to begin by going back to the item that you spoke to, general, in your opening comments, proposing a 35% design standard that was required for feasibility study approval.
▶ 1:31:37Sen. Padilla: I understand the rationale behind the effort, but I worry, and I think you share the concern, that larger projects will get stuck in a catch 22 where they cannot move forward without significant more resources upfront, while the army corps budget doesn't actually provide those necessary resources.
▶ 1:32:01Sen. Padilla: This could be a situation where the army corps stops doing big projects and there are a number that are truly needed across the country, projects that are critical to protecting life and the property of our constituents. We just had the 20th anniversary, for lack of a better term, of hurricane katrina and the devastation to the people in louisiana.
▶ 1:32:21Sen. Padilla: I imagine that a new standard like this would have delayed the project to restore their communities out there for years and years and years. That was a $14 billion levee repair.
▶ 1:32:39Sen. Padilla: So, general, for the feasibility studies that lead to larger water resource projects costing more than 500 million, will the current annual budget for the investigations account support the level of design spending without causing delays? What is your ideal proposal on how to address that?
▶ 1:32:58Gen. Graham: Thank you for the question. Whenever your senatorial gig finishes up, we are always hiring of mccann -- hiring mechanical engineers for the team. Sir, you know well that the path to delivering these projects on schedule and within budget is to think through them carefully during the design phase. Line up funding and then build them rapidly with a team of experts. That is just what we have done.
▶ 1:33:30Gen. Graham: We do need to figure out, with the investigations budget and the workload that we have on very complex studies how that would break out so that we can deliver those studies efficiently. The core has been criticized in the past, decades ago, for not looking systemwide. Looking at small projects scattered around.
▶ 1:33:55Gen. Graham: Wisely we were given direction from congress in support from the administration to start looking at larger systems and we have done that. Coastal texas is a great example. Same thing with the projects in new york city. With that, we have to figure out a way to break it down into manageable, implementable pieces so that we know what it is we are proposing to build and they have to be budgeted.
▶ 1:34:22Gen. Graham: $52 billion on 1.5 billion in the construction budget is probably going to be unfeasible. We've got to square those things.
▶ 1:34:30Sen. Padilla: I understand. You've had some of those close calls in california as well, by the way, not just new york and louisiana. But in your remarks you referenced new ones that are important to recognize. Would you consider any exceptions to that 35% requirement for large projects? There are future projects and then there are projects that are underway right now. Is there any grandfathering considered before the new standard is opposed?
▶ 1:34:59Gen. Graham: Make sure you are playing common sense as we go through the analysis. That's our commitment, applying common sense as we go through it. The goal will be to deliver the projects efficiently and effectively to protect citizens and make sure that our navigations in things like port of long beach, that the amazing economic engine continues to run.
▶ 1:35:21Sen. Padilla: Right, because there are ripple effects. Thank you. I'll definitely be doing follow-up. Secretary, before I ask you about the harbor maintenance conversation we had previously, I wanted to express my condolences on the loss of your father recently and content -- appreciate your willingness to be here in a difficult time. Please convey that to your family as well.
▶ 1:35:46Sen. Padilla: Now, as I had said during your confirmation process, the ports of los angeles and long beach are the busiest container port complexes in the western hemisphere. I appreciate the commitment that you made at the time to this -- not just to me, but to the committee to uphold the energy funding as directed by 2020 and 2022.
▶ 1:36:13Sen. Padilla: However, since your confirmation hearing and before you were sworn in, the administration released their fiscal year 25 work plan for the U.S. army corps, as well as the budget proposal for fiscal year 26. Neither document reflects the increased funding targets for increased donor ports as directed by congress. To put it mildly, that's troubling.
▶ 1:36:39Sen. Padilla: Can you share with me and this committee that the word -- that they have set aside 20% of the harbor maintenance trust fund obligations that will be monitored?
▶ 1:36:52Mr. Telle: We will follow the law, thank you for the question. The work plan and the presidential budget included $58 million in keeping with that set aside in the appropriations acts that have been enacted by congress that govern those fiscal years.
▶ 1:37:12Sen. Padilla: For my constituents, is that yes or no?
▶ 1:37:16Mr. Telle: The 25 work plan and 26 presidents budget include 58 million dollars, consistent with the appropriations acts enacted by congress.
▶ 1:37:27Sen. Padilla: That doesn't add up to 12%, by my simple math.
▶ 1:37:31Mr. Telle: Mr. telle: your math is correct. Senator, that is the level set by the appropriations acts for those fiscal years.
▶ 1:37:40Sen. Padilla: So, it isn't living up to the requirement. I understand the position you are in, but we obviously have some work to do.
▶ 1:37:49Mr. Telle: We follow the laws proposed by this appropriations committee.
▶ 1:37:55Sen. Padilla: The chairman is more than generous with me. I will do some follow-up questions for the record on the flood protection project and other important issues for my state.
▶ 1:38:10Chair Capito: Chair capito: thank you very much. Thank you. Senator sullivan?
▶ 1:38:16Senator: Madam chair, thank you. Mr. secretary, thank you for being here. General, thank you. You both have critical jobs. One of the most important in government and I think you are doing a great job and I will get to that regarding alaska. I want to remind you of the context. You have seen this chart before, the set executive orders issued by the biden administration exclusively focused on alaska.
▶ 1:38:44Senator: We call it the last frontier lockup. If you look at the actual list of them, 70. It's right there. Those are executive orders and executive actions. No state got sanctioned more by their own federal government than we did in alaska. I would like -- I like to do this in public a lot, because these days are over, right? It's a new era. That was the alaska lockup.
▶ 1:39:15Senator: This is the alaska come back. You are very fairly -- familiar with this executive order. This is day one, the trump administration issued an executive order called unleashing the alaska extraordinary resource potential. The only state in the country with our own eo that was issued on the day of the presidential inauguration. The corps of engineers, as you know, secretary, is highlighted in it in a big way.
▶ 1:39:47Senator: The part on the assistant secretary of the army for civil works shall immediately review, result -- review, revise, rescind any agency action that may in any way hinder, slow, or otherwise delay any critical project to alaska. During your confirmation hearing, remember what you said to me about that executive order and that paragraph in particular?
▶ 1:40:14Mr. Telle: I indicated to you that I had tattooed it on my arm.
▶ 1:40:18Sen. Sullivan: Yes, tattooed it on your heart. I have to admit, that was one of the best answers I had heard in a long time. And you are doing that. So, I very much appreciate that. Let me compliment you on the really important work that she did when we had another glacial lake flood in juneau, alaska.
▶ 1:40:49Sen. Sullivan: This was actually the worst, but it wasn't as bad, the corps of engineers had acted quickly at my request this last spring with those barriers to help prevent flooding. But you also surged the brigadier general to alaska for an entire week. He and his team were in juneau, there was a lot of comfort and we had a lot of work to do. Can I get your commitment generally that we are not just going to study this.
▶ 1:41:17Sen. Sullivan: The people of juneau are having flooding every summer. By the way, last summer, it's amazing no one was killed. But we need to get on it soon. Can I get your commitment with any other updates you want to give me on that? I appreciate you surging a high level team for a week in alaska to be in juneau when this happened again. We need a corps of engineers solution to this and I appreciate your focus.
▶ 1:41:45Mr. Telle: Thank you for emphasizing the importance of this challenge. Your leadership helped to guide our decision-making. I have committed to you -- let me also say that I am so proud of the army corps of engineers, the general, his team, the alaska district for the work they did in real time to save lives and property there in mid august.
▶ 1:42:10Mr. Telle: I have committed to you and the general has committed to me that we are going to be focused on the long, medium, and short term solution to address this challenge. Short-term is what you saw in august and we will see it again as long as we needed as we develop medium and long-term solutions. I will let general graham comment on the progress of the medium and long-term solutions.
▶ 1:42:31Gen. Graham: Senator, it's what we are built for. Being able to take a complex situation and work with state and local partners to put a project in place rapidly. As you saw with general gets up there, that's what we are committed to. There's a smaller outburst happening as we speak, but they are working again with the city, I think that they held off on repairing some of the existing barriers until this finishes.
▶ 1:43:01Gen. Graham: The technical report that we will look at lays the foundation for a long-term fix and we expect that next spring and we will watch it closely as the work unfolds. Everything we are doing will be with all the partners across the government at all levels with their ability to add to that solution, that's our commitment.
▶ 1:43:19Sen. Sullivan: I know the people of juneau really appreciate that and I appreciate that. Madam chair, do I --
▶ 1:43:28Chair Capito: Let me ask you, have you voted?
▶ 1:43:33Sen. Sullivan: I'm going to go there now. Quickly, two more questions. Relating to this eeo, I met with a company called graphite one, really exciting, outside of nome, alaska.
▶ 1:43:54Sen. Sullivan: They were concerned that even though they were put on the docket, a graphite mine, the largest deposits in the world is in alaska they were put on the fast 41 has ea and we are hearing that the alaska district is may be putting them on as eis. Can you gentlemen take a look at that?
▶ 1:44:21Sen. Sullivan: It seems to go against the trump executive order and more importantly, sackett versus epa, the recent supreme court case.
▶ 1:44:28Mr. Telle: Absolutely. We take this very seriously. I will report to you that we have guidance in place now to implemented on a temporary basis as we wait for a permanent rule to implement that supreme court decision.
▶ 1:44:44Mr. Telle: But I will also tell you that through nationwide permits the army corps of engineers has been given the elbow grease needed for trump to deliver close to 800 permits for energy-related and resource related activities, including approximately 10% of those in the state of alaska in the nine months of his administration.
▶ 1:45:11Sen. Sullivan: I always put up this chart as well. Lots of action in alaska. Russian and chinese incursions into our airspace in our waters. Four incursions just in august. The port of nome is going to be critical for alaskan economic activity, but also for infrastructure for national security assets. The corps awarded a nearly $400 million contract for phase one of the port of nome expansion.
▶ 1:45:45Sen. Sullivan: This is a crucial step to establishing her in. -- infrastructure in the arctic for our economy and national security. Gentlemen, can I get your commitment to continue beyond phase one, a huge phase? Trying to get this country 15 to 20 years. Next year, a 400 million dollar contract awarded on phase one, continuing it as a key issue for the core going forward beyond phase one in general. Mr. secretary, can I get your commitment on that?
▶ 1:46:15Gen. Graham: Absolutely. We are also looking for more sources of rocks in alaska to bring down construction costs but you absolutely have our commitment.
▶ 1:46:27Sen. Sullivan: Thank. Madam chair?
▶ 1:46:30Chair Capito: Senator alsobrooks.
▶ 1:46:34Senator Alsobrooks: Thank you for calling today's hearing, madam chair, senator whitehouse, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us. Mr. secretary, thank you for visiting us in maryland and seeing the important ecosystem restoration work the army corps is doing there.
▶ 1:46:52Senator Alsobrooks: As you saw, their mission in maryland is important and far-reaching in terms of response when it comes to dredging near the port of baltimore and unders taking -- undertaking large scale projects and for the beach nourishment needed to protect coastal communities. I really glad that you have the opportunity. As you know, the core manages 4300 recreation areas across the nation, including one of them on the maryland west virginia border.
▶ 1:47:21Senator Alsobrooks: These recreation areas provide opportunities in our local economies and opportunities for boating, fishing, and hiking. 212,000 votes are registered there and boating remains one of the most popular activities at these sites nationwide.
▶ 1:47:40Senator Alsobrooks: The administrative hiring freeze prevented them from hiring seasonal staff to play an essential role in keeping these sites safe, open, and well maintained and without them there were closures, hours reduced, and limited service.
▶ 1:47:55Senator Alsobrooks: Senator cramer and I sent a letter urging the core to take immediate steps to remove seasonal workers from the hiring freeze and I was glad to hear that they were granted an exemption in hiring 320 staff for those recreation areas. Either of you can answer, but I wanted to check in -- maybe you can start, Mr. secretary -- how many of these seasonal employees were the court able to save?
▶ 1:48:26Mr. Telle: Thank you for raising this issue and suggesting I go to see poplar island. It was enlightening. You are correct, we had a shortage of recreational workers heading into the spring.
▶ 1:48:47Mr. Telle: Thanks to your work, senator cramer's work, and the administration, we were granted an exception on hiring policy and we've been working against the denominator that you referenced, approaching the 100 employees that have been hired for recreation facilities. We expect that by next spring, we will be at a point where we will not have any impacts or minimal impacts as it relates to the challenge that we face this spring.
▶ 1:49:18Sen. Alsobrooks: Do you expect the federal hiring freezes to affect the work like eco-restoration? And what procedures have you put in place to monitor and assess the impact of workforce reductions on other authorized activities in the civil world?
▶ 1:49:36Sen. Alsobrooks: I'm -- Mr.
▶ 1:49:38Telle: I'm not aware of any impact on the corps of engineers.
▶ 1:49:46Sen. Alsobrooks: The atlantic coast of maryland shoreline protection project is a long-standing effort to protect ocean city and nearby areas from coastal storm damage, flooding, and erosion. The project includes engineer to beaches and dunes with systems spanning nearly seven miles over 50 years.
▶ 1:50:08Sen. Alsobrooks: These systems have proven effective and prevented about 920 $7 million since the 1900s in supporting the tourism economy. The project periodically bleaches nourishment with the next cycle scheduled for late 2025 to mid 26, with a replenishment that has been delayed and is not expected to begin until september of 26 and I was wondering if you could speak to the cause.
▶ 1:50:36Mr. Telle: Thank you for raising the issue. You mentioned it in your opening remarks, quite often that material that comes from places like the channel that services the port of baltimore can be used for beneficial purposes, including tree nourishment, which is really about protecting coastal communities from coastal storm risk, and you are correct. That problem in ocean city, as you correctly referenced, has a four year replenishment cycle.
▶ 1:51:07Mr. Telle: We are on schedule for 2026 and I will refer to general graham about the causes for any delays.
▶ 1:51:17Gen. Graham: I'm not aware.
▶ 1:51:19Sen. Alsobrooks: General, a one-year delay, what impact could that have on the effectiveness of the project?
▶ 1:51:28Gen. Graham: The coastal storm risk management project, senator, the beach nourishment project, we are working with mother nature on this. She's off the variables. We have this periodically nourishment schedule that sometimes the beaches erode and sometimes they eat crete as the storms move. There are a lot of variables that go with it.
▶ 1:51:52Sen. Alsobrooks: I yield. Thank you so much.
▶ 1:51:56Chair Capito: With no further questions, I would like to thank the witnesses in my colleagues for their participation today. Senators who wish to submit written questions for the record have until 5 p.m. October 1 to do so. Witness responses to the questions are due back to the committee no later than the close of business, wednesday, october 15. They will be submitted to the record. I am going to run out here on a vote, I don't want to hold us up on the floor.
▶ 1:52:25Chair Capito: Don't take it as any reflection on my gratitude for you all coming so quickly. We want to stay close with the core and the projects. Thank you very much, would that this hearing is adjourned. -- with that this hearing is adjourned.