▶ 0:19:56Chair Grassley: Good morning everybody. This hearing is meant to examine the cost of our soft on crime policies, and particularly the highlight the trump administration's effort to reduce violent crime.
▶ 0:20:22Chair Grassley: It's been over a month since the trumpet administration took -- trump administration took swift action to stop crime the nation's capital. That resulted in a 53% reduction in murders, and 57% reduction in robberies, a 75% reduction in carjackings.
▶ 0:20:48Chair Grassley: My democrat colleagues would surely welcome these reductions but from some other language. You wonder whether they do. There ought to be a breath of a sigh of relief from them that more families were spare the cost of crime which is so often paid in lives lost, laughter silenced, and families left irreparably broken.
▶ 0:21:21Chair Grassley: Instead, they have spun an orwellian tale defaming their political opponents as "authoritarians." engaged in "abuses of government military power to target and punish dissent." that is the end of that quote. This self-serving narrative does not make america safer.
▶ 0:21:50Chair Grassley: It harms victims who plead for secure communities and law enforcement officers targeted by radicals. Need I remind you, the self-declared defenders of the rule of law of the very laws that were abandoned for open borders years ago, those foolish policies paroled over 6000
▶ 0:22:23Chair Grassley: People on the fbi's terrorist screening center watchlist or with criminal records into the united states and the same four years lost track of over 2 million known got aways. The active "upholding the rule of law" is not a political exercise for election season.
▶ 0:22:52Chair Grassley: It is the duty of government all over to protect and serve -- extended to protect and serve -- extends only to political allies of some of these democrat leaders.
▶ 0:23:16Chair Grassley: Just this month the department of homeland security reported that police under governor pritzker's sanctuary jurisdiction refused to answer multiple calls for assistance when violent rioters physically assaulted immigration officers. Those unlawfully present in the united states may potentially be subject to both criminal prosecution and immigration removal proceedings.
▶ 0:23:49Chair Grassley: Operation midway blitz in chicago resulted in the rest of illegal migrants convicted of assault, domestic violence and murder. Those are just the criminal records the united states can access. I would like to remind my colleagues that foreign criminal records often are not accessible, particularly from countries like venezuela.
▶ 0:24:15Chair Grassley: We titled this hearing, "blue city chaos and tragedy." 18 of the top 20 most crime-ridden cities are controlled by democrats preaching and plummeting soft on crime policies.
▶ 0:24:36Chair Grassley: In 2022, the heritage foundation released a report finding a super majority of high crime cities in red states are "deep blue and ran by love blue and ran by l left-wing ideologues." they abuse grant money to push anti-victim policies and local prosecutors' offices.
▶ 0:25:03Chair Grassley: In june, I released a report outlining how the soros backed institute of justice used federal funds to embed prosecutor offices. Those prosecutors declined to charge a repeat sexual predator, release violent criminals into the community to reoffend, and investigated their political opponents.
▶ 0:25:32Chair Grassley: In congress, good faith efforts by some republicans to work collaboratively on gun solutions to the bipartisan safer community act quickly turned to political opportunism. Democrats abandon their promise to adhere strictly to legislative text and authorized warrantless searches of any lawful gun owner who dared to transact a single gun sale from their home.
▶ 0:26:00Chair Grassley: Many suffered hunter biden's -- under biden administration overreach but none more so than victims who lost their loved ones in violent crimes. Many of those individuals welcome to president trump efforts to make the community safer.
▶ 0:26:25Chair Grassley: To the national guard and law enforcement officers working to make america safer, I think all of my colleagues would join me in saying thank you for your service. The left-leaning media has alleged the national guard is board. I think that is a sign of the presence deterring violence. Before I turned the ranking member durbin, I will take a minute for a video that shows the human cost of soft on crime policies.
▶ 0:26:57Chair Grassley: Please listen for one minute. >> the juveniles have run the city. Not just this city but cities across the country. Philadelphia, chicago, baltimore. >> you can get up every morning and say someone will get murdered. >> a man believed to be in his 40's, just an innocent person driving on ohio street when one of the suspects from this burglary here outside the louis vuitton story was driving southbound on michigan avenue, crashed into that man.
▶ 0:27:29Chair Grassley: He died as a result of that crash. >> it is unconscionable you can look the other way and allow this to happen every single day. >> crime is still a big problem in the twin cities. Each incident brings lasting fear and pain to those victimized. >> this is not low-level crime. It's what happens when repeat offenders are allowed to cycle through a rest after her meaningful accountability. It is what happens when there are no real consequences.
▶ 0:27:57Chair Grassley: >> how do we get crime under control? >> we have to do something to show we are trying every avenue to make chicago -- it can't be, no, you cannot come here because we don't like you politically.
▶ 0:28:16Sen. Durbin: Mr. chairman, I did not think I would see a video clip of former illinois governor ron tagore -- wrong ron tagore -- wrron blagojevich who received a pardon from president trump. This is such a political hearing and it shouldn't be. What is at stake here is something we all value. That is the safety of our families, homes and neighborhoods.
▶ 0:28:46Sen. Durbin: I regret that you have referenced this hearing to focus on "blue city chaos." that is a political reference for sure. Mr. chairman, violent crime is on the decline. The statistics don't mean much to the victims. I think Ms. cook for being here. I can only imagine your grief and I thank you for your courage and I thank you for your courage a in testifying.
▶ 0:29:19Sen. Durbin: Every american deserves to feel safe. We should be working on a bipartisan basis, which we have done over and over again on this committee to continue to reduce crime, making the community safer for all americans. Unfortunately this hearing is not going to help us reach that goal. Look no further than its title, "blue city chaos," which suggest that communities with democratic leaders are less safe than communities with republican leaders. Let's look at the reality.
▶ 0:29:49Sen. Durbin: For the last two decades the murder rate in my home state of illinois has been lower than the murder rate in missouri, louisiana and alabama, all states represented by republicans on this committee. Take a look at shreveport, louisiana. A city with a republican mayor, a republican governor, represented by the speaker the house and two republican senators.
▶ 0:30:20Sen. Durbin: The fbi statistics show that shreveport has a higher violent crime rate in washington, D.C. in 2020 three, illinois spent $516 per capita on policing. More than the state of iowa, south carolina, texas, utah, missouri, north carolina, louisiana, tennessee and
▶ 0:30:52Sen. Durbin: Alabama. Who is funding police? In chicago, over the first six months of this year homicide rates are down 32%. Shootings have dropped 37%. We need to build on this success, not ignore it. During my time as chair this committee I held more than a dozen hearings on reducing violent crime. We focused on legislation, not lamentation.
▶ 0:31:23Sen. Durbin: I reported numerous bills supporting law enforcement that were signed into law by president biden, including protecting america's first responders act and the hurt and retain act. We passed the bipartisan safe communities act to crack down on gun violence.
▶ 0:31:40Sen. Durbin: Instead of political theater and partisan attacks we should focus on providing -- proven efforts like the heel initiative, a project I launched in 2018 with one of chicago's largest hospitals to address the root causes of violence in 18 neighborhoods with the highest rates of violence, partly in health disparity. Unfortunately president trump has done everything he can to undermine efforts like this.
▶ 0:32:06Sen. Durbin: He covered $160 million from community safety funding authorized by the bipartisan safer communities act. He cut 72 billion dollars in funding for state or local law enforcement. The 2026 trump budget would slash high intensity drug trafficking areas programs by more than a third, from about $300 million to $196 million.
▶ 0:32:36Sen. Durbin: These cuts are strongly opposed by law enforcement. The trump white house itself conceived it is an effective and efficient use of taxpayers money and an important tool in the nation's effort to stop drug trafficking and save american lives. While president trump claims to be tough on crime, he granted full and unconditional pardon to nearly 1600 january 6 rioters, including within 600 charged with assaulting law enforcement.
▶ 0:33:08Sen. Durbin: Here is the reality. President trump is not reducing -- interested in reducing crime. He's interested in political posturing. 100 troops into the city of chicago. Did you hear the announcement this morning by the secretary of defense? One of the characteristics he insist on when it comes to building a strong military is that it be a political. His word. Apolitical.
▶ 0:33:35Sen. Durbin: The president deployed troops to los angeles and washington, D.C., and made threats to wage war in chicago, portland and other american cities. Let's be clear. These are illegal, unconstitutional and un-american power grabs by the president that actually endangers americans. President trump is looking for an excuse to send soldiers into american communities so he can play the role of strongman on television.
▶ 0:34:00Sen. Durbin: In illinois, his misguided mass deportation is targeting communities, but not making them safer. Remember the litany we heard over and over again about immigrants to this country? Rapists, murderers, terrorists, the criminally insane. Did you know that 70% of the immigrants detained so far for the president have no criminal conviction? None.
▶ 0:34:30Sen. Durbin: The administration's focus is follow-ups on social media, like his pictures from downtown chicago of armed masked men who feature the trump tower in the background. Just yesterday we learned the department of land security requested the deployment of 100 military personnel to illinois over the objections of the governor.
▶ 0:34:54Sen. Durbin: Simply put, despite with the secretary of defense said at quantico this morning, the president's use of the military to police american streets is political theater, staged for his supporters and aimed at making community safer. Thousands of fbi, dea, atf agents and thousand of service members across this country have been diverted from critical missions to carry out the president's immigration agenda.
▶ 0:35:25Sen. Durbin: Not surprisingly, federal drug prosecutions this year have dropped to the lowest in decades. To parade the military in the cities by diverting talent and skill away from federal drug prosecutions, does that make america safe? We need to support law enforcement and policies that improve and 90 road trust between them in our communities -- erode trust between them in our communities.
▶ 0:35:53Sen. Durbin: I not sit by while this president tramples the constitution and all use every tool at my disposal to reduce crime and protect our communities and a lawful way that promotes lasting change. I yield.
▶ 0:36:04Chair Grassley: I want to take a minute to say something about what I said. I will give you a minute if you want to react to what I say. >> can you put the microphone --
▶ 0:36:20Chair Grassley: Democrats missed a key data point when they assert the most violent cities are in red states. Almost all the cities are run by democrat mayors. Axios reports that of the 20 cities with more than 100,000 residents in the highest murder rates, 19 have a democrat mayor.
▶ 0:36:42Chair Grassley: President trump is willing to work with these mayors but they keep turning down the offer for help despite the fact president trump's efforts are working in places like D.C. and memphis. Without objection, I would like to enter into the record press releases from the dea and the marshall service detailing these successes. Anything you want to say? Not. I will -- no. I will introduce the witnesses. Ranking member durbin will introduce his.
▶ 0:37:14Chair Grassley: We will swear in the group and take their testimony. First is Mrs. forlesia cook. Ms. cook is a D.C. local. Her life was turned upside down on april 23, 2017, when her grandson was shot and killed. He was a hard-working 22-year-old man who left the house that day for a date. Marty never returned home. He was shot seven times.
▶ 0:37:47Chair Grassley: Thank you for appearing, Mrs. cook. We have detective gregg pemberton. Detective pemberton worked at the metropolitan police department in washington, D.C. he is head of the D.C. police union. Detective pemberton represents over 3000 women and men of the metropolitan police department.
▶ 0:38:15Chair Grassley: Detective pemberton brings his first-hand experience battling crime to washington, D.C. to discuss current policies. Thank you. Finally have tennessee state senator brent taylor. Senator taylor hails from tennessee's 31st district which covers a portion of the city of memphis and its surrounding suburbs.
▶ 0:38:42Chair Grassley: Since being elected to office in 2023, senator taylor has been known for being tough on crime. Senator taylor knows well the impact that progressive soft on crime policies have on cities. I'm grateful for his leadership in his home state to combat these policies. Senator durbin.
▶ 0:39:07Sen. Durbin: Gregory jackson is here, head of the rocket foundation. Of gun violence survivor, he served as deputy director of the white house office of gun violence prevention and special assistant to president biden. He has served as executive director of the community justice action fund which advances policies to address gun violence. Thank you being here, Mr. jackson.
▶ 0:39:35Sen. Durbin: We also welcome major general william enyart, a retired member of the army national guard. His career culminated as adjutant general commanding the area nomination -- air and army national guard he served his bigoted dinner and deputy commanding general of the national guard.
▶ 0:40:06Sen. Durbin: Thank you for being here today.
▶ 0:40:07Chair Grassley: I will ask if you will stand please do you swear the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? Let the record reflect all the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Mrs. cook, we will start with you. Sometimes -- make sure you push that red button.
▶ 0:40:54Sen. Durbin: Is the red button on?
▶ 0:41:14Chair Grassley: General, could you change with her?
▶ 0:41:33Mrs. Cook: Can you hear me now? Ok. Thank you, chairman grassley and members of the senate judiciary committee for having me today. My name is forlesia cook. I'm a lifelong washingtonian. My grandson marty william mcmillan junior was tragically murdered in washington, D.C. on april 20 3, 2017.
▶ 0:42:06Mrs. Cook: Marty was my firstborn grandson. We were very close. My world turned upside down the day he died. It felt as though everything had gone dark and even breathing became painful. We had no answers. It seemed like no one really cared.
▶ 0:42:34Mrs. Cook: After weeks of not hearing from anyone, I was shocked to learn that no one had been assigned to marty's case at the fifth district my own family investigated and solved the case. On marty's birthday, january 11, 2018, my daughter received the devastating news that the coroner had marty's remains.
▶ 0:43:04Mrs. Cook: It had been nine long months since we had seen or heard anything. I was told they could not charge my grandson's killer with first-degree murder. He shot my grandson and cold blood seven times. And they didn't consider that as first-degree murder?
▶ 0:43:33Mrs. Cook: They act like we would be lucky if we got manslaughter. The bottom line is that murder in D.C. is treated as a joke when it comes time for justice. Marty's killer received maybe 16 years which will likely be served concurrently with the time he was already serving for the charge of guns and drugs.
▶ 0:44:07Mrs. Cook: He may end up doing just 10 years in actual jail. Five of those may be probation. How can that be? After years of waiting to go to trial, the judge after the hearing -- my family -- after hearing my family's impact statements asked the killer if he had anything he wanted to say.
▶ 0:44:35Mrs. Cook: She said to him, it must be a stressful day. To have to sit here and listen to all of that. He killed our loved one. After everything we went through, they seemed to be more sympathetic to him than us, the victims. How long do we have to suffer?
▶ 0:45:05Mrs. Cook: This must change. We need to stop killing -- killers with minimal time and allowing them to come back out and potentially kill someone else. This is wrong. Someone needs to change the laws. I don't care who makes the changes. It needs to happen.
▶ 0:45:34Mrs. Cook: I'm simply asking for someone to do the right thing. Please. If you take a life, you should serve a life. That is my opinion. A life sentence. It is just that simple. I'm grateful for president trump for hearing my voice.
▶ 0:46:05Mrs. Cook: He is doing something to make this thing safe. I can see the total difference since president trump. I am more comfortable being here. I feel safer here. I know others do, too. I do. Thank you for listening. It took this administration to address and having heard.
▶ 0:46:36Mrs. Cook: I appreciate it and thank everyone that took the time to hear me, because no one heard me before. I did rallies and marches, I stood at the department of justice. I want to see mayor bowser. I asked them to help. My family did not get justice and nobody heard me until now. Thank you, president trump.
▶ 0:47:10Mrs. Cook: Thank you. I'm sorry.
▶ 0:47:16Chair Grassley: Is my microphone on? General, you will probably have to change places so you can be heard.
▶ 0:47:48Chair Grassley: Please proceed. >> good morning, chairman grassley, ranking member durbin and senators. My name is william enyart. I am a retired major general. I was the adjutant general, the commanding general for the 13,000 soldiers and airmen of the illinois national guard. I had guardsmen in combat in iraq and afghanistan 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
▶ 0:48:21Chair Grassley: I served nearly 36 years in the military. I come from a proud family veterans. My father, brother and I served a total of nearly 64 years as enlisted members. I was commissioned an officer in 1982 after military retirement I was elected to congress are served in the house armed services committee. I recite these facts so you understand I have experience at the enlisted, officer, general officer and policymaker level.
▶ 0:48:52Chair Grassley: This experience forms the basis of what I will tell you today. I'm here to talk about appropriate uses of the national guard. The national guard has a history of service to our nation, from pre-evolutionary war days to the world wars to today's conflicts. The national guard is the best trained military reserve force in the world. There were times during the iraq war that the army national guard provided more than half of our combat power in iraq.
▶ 0:49:20Chair Grassley: We train and military skills, napoli skills, to provide -- not police skills. Our other equally important role is as a trained and ready force for the governors. We deployed to assist in disaster recovery. We deployed to new orleans for hurricane katrina, illinois for the mississippi river floods, st. Louis for tornadoes, and the nevada air national guard for forest fires. You heard what we are.
▶ 0:49:49Chair Grassley: We are not trained as police officers. Our soldiers may receive a couple of hours a year in civil disturbance training. We do not receive the months and years of training required to become qualified police officers. We are not trained to perform arrest, perform traffic stops, perform investigations, the follow-up on crime tips. The calls to mobilize the guard failed to understand this, nor they understand the cost of mobilize the guard. There is a cost to the taxpayer.
▶ 0:50:20Chair Grassley: The number I heard for los angeles was $120 million for 4000 guardsmen for 60 days. That's a high price tag for stopgap measures. How many police officers could have been hired, trained up one of the streets for $120 million? There is the cause for the department of defense and a fema. Every dollar spent on a misguided use is a deli that cannot be spent on training or equipping the soldiers, they cannot be spent on the real mission. A dollar that is not there for disaster response when the next hurricane hits new orleans with the next tornado levels st. Louis.
▶ 0:50:50Chair Grassley: There is the hidden cost of the soldiers and their families. These are part-time soldiers. They have jobs at home. They have educations they are missing. They have families that rely on them, employers who rely on them. Let me speak to you from a guardsmen heart. Sunday, my pastor at the presbyterian church spoke about trust. He was speaking to the trust between god and man. Let me speak to you as soldiers trust. A soldier trust fellow soldiers. They trust their leadership.
▶ 0:51:23Chair Grassley: They trust the political leadership of this country to send them on missions whether wartime or peacetime that makes sense. Missions that do not waste their time or lives. That don't waste their sacrifices. A soldiers family trusts their sacrifices, their laws so that soldier for a day, week, month, maybe forever is not a waste. Employers trust guardsmen's mission is necessary, it's important and it protects our nation.
▶ 0:51:53Chair Grassley: Communities trust that our soldiers serve our nation, defend our nation, defend justice and democracy. Trust that is soldiers mission is to protect them, not police them. To misuse our troops where the guard or active duty is to breach those bonds of trust.
▶ 0:52:13Chair Grassley: When the soldiers are doing what they signed up for, defending our great nation or helping their neighbors recover from a natural disaster, they don't mind sacrificing wages, missing a child's birthday, losing months away from school. But when they are bagging trash and washington, D.C., they lose trust. Worst, their employers and families lose trust.
▶ 0:52:36Chair Grassley: It took a generation for the guard to recover from the stain of guardsmen shooting and killing college students at kent state where one -- and we are one trigger pull away from another tragedy. Don't let it happen. The national guard forces are for a real emergency, not a band-aid for long-standing problems that need a long-term solution. Thank you. >> good morning, chairman, ranking member.
▶ 0:53:07Chair Grassley: My name is gregg pemberton and they represent roughly 3000 officers of the metropolitan police department. I have served the city for more than 20 years. Let me be direct. Major cities are in crisis. Crime is out of control and police departments are dangerously understaffed. This did not happen by accident.
▶ 0:53:29Chair Grassley: It is a result of radical -- laws and rhetoric that begin in washington, D.C. the council stripped away officer rights, proven tools and openly celebrated the funding. The results speak for themselves. In 2020, there were 3798 sworn members.
▶ 0:53:52Chair Grassley: Today we are under 3200, the lowest in half a century, leaving us with more than 800 vacancies for the position of someone officer. Since 2020, more than 1600 officers have left, nearly 40% of those three resignations. These are not retirements. These are cops walking away. The impact on public safety has been devastating. Between 2020 and 2023, homicide's research, carjackings doubled, robberies spiked in neighborhoods became unsafe.
▶ 0:54:23Chair Grassley: The officers who remain working on sustainable hours. More than 1.8 million hours of overtime in 2024 alone, costing taxpayers over $130 million and burning out the force that remains. This is not unique to washington, D.C. city councils and legislatures followed the same path, passing laws that hamstring police, road morale and expose officers to liability people and they do their jobs properly. The message to police is clear.
▶ 0:54:52Chair Grassley: You will not be supported in the result has been predictable. Cities from new york to chicago to seattle are seeing record attrition, recruitment collapsing crime that is left entire neighborhoods living in fear. This is a national problem with national consequences. This summer the crisis reached such extremes of the president stepped in, federal lysing the mpd.
▶ 0:55:14Chair Grassley: Alongside this action hundreds of federal law enforcement agencies surged into the city and the national guard was deployed to reinforce local efforts. Their presence was effective in deterring crime and stabilizing neighborhoods that have been plagued by violence. Within just one week of this deployment carjackings were down 83%, robberies down 46%, violent crime down 22% and there were zero homicides in those seven days, something nearly unheard of in the nation's capital.
▶ 0:55:43Chair Grassley: The union supports the recognition of the problem but federal intervention cannot be permanent. The solution is not federal lysing police, it is restoring staffing, repealing failed laws and giving officers the support they need to succeed. That is why we support the clean D.C. act that begins the process of undoing harmful legislation restoring balance and rebuilding mpd's strength. This is not just a D.C. issue. Other cities are now facing the same consequences. The lesson is clear. When leaders attack police, community suffer.
▶ 0:56:12Chair Grassley: One lawmaker strip away tools and protections, criminals thrive. This is not corrected, the crisis will deepen here and nationwide. I urge congress to act, support the clean D.C. act, rollback legislation and work with law enforcement instead of against us. Officers want nothing more than to protect communities but they cannot do it alone. I thank you for the opportunity to testify and I welcome any questions the committee may have. Thank you.
▶ 0:56:39Chair Grassley: Now Mr. jackson.
▶ 0:56:41Mr. Jackson: Thank you, chairman grassley, ranking member durbin and committee members for inviting me to be a part of this hearing. I am gregg jackson, survivor of gun violence, former deputy director of the first ever white house office of gun violence prevention, the office echo native federal resources, implement limited life-saving policies and coordinate of both state and local leaders to reach a nationwide reduction in violent crime by and homicides by 31%.
▶ 0:57:10Mr. Jackson: In 2013, while walking home an argument erupted across the street from me. I was struck by a bullet. The bullet hit two arteries and left me bleeding to death on the pavement. As I was fighting for my life that night I arrived to the hospital only to be met by officers instead of doctors. They put me through three rounds of interrogation before the surgery and with blood pouring out, I found myself fighting for my life.
▶ 0:57:35Mr. Jackson: And my innocencedespite spending sundays in church and growing up with two loving parents, graduating from an elite college, being a hard-working professional, that night I was seen as a suspect first in a person second -- and a person second. This approach is not only wrong, it's an effective.
▶ 0:58:00Mr. Jackson: Reducing violent crime requires a conference of approach to prevent violence before it happens while ensuring swift and effective justice for those responsible. We know we cannot arrest our way out of this crisis. If so, louisiana would be the safest state in the country and america would be the safest country in the world. Since I was shot nearly a million americans have been shot or killed, including my mentee. With violent crime surging during the beginning of the first trumpet administration. -- trump administration.
▶ 0:58:33Mr. Jackson: Violence -- gun violence is the leading cause of death for youth in america, the leading cause of death for pregnant women and the leading cause of death for black men and boys. The second leading cause of death for black women and latino men. These statistics are extremely overwhelming but the last few years we have seen real bipartisan solutions to address violent crime. With two consecutive years of historic reductions in gun violence with major cities outpacing reductions across the country.
▶ 0:59:04Mr. Jackson: Simply put, we achieved that by investing in those that are most at risk, strengthening vulnerable communities come investing in law enforcement while holding the gun industry accountable and keeping illegal guns off of our streets. Without mass federal agents or troop deployments we saw homicides dropped 24% in boston -- I'm sorry, only 24 homicides period in boston. 54% of baltimore. I 30% reduction of baltimore.
▶ 0:59:33Mr. Jackson: We got here in part because republicans and democrats came together to enact a bipartisan loft that provided billions of funding to prevent violence, to invest in mental health, to strengthen school safety and strength in enforcement let strategies, including enhancing background check systems, investing in law enforcement, protecting or preventing domestic abusers from accessing guns, making largest investment youth and mental health, and making gun trafficking a federal crime, prosecuting over 600 traffickers.
▶ 1:00:01Mr. Jackson: As our communities are fighting out of this crisis we find ourselves at a dangerous crossroad. Instead of federal resources to strengthen what works, the trump administration has dismantled and defunded bipartisan strategies past and allowed to reduce violence.
▶ 1:00:16Mr. Jackson: They shut down the white house office of gun violence prevention, defunded federal law enforcement, including the atf, terminated $1 billion in mental health resources, terminated $812 million to community-led violence intervention programs, defunded gun violence research and cdc firearm industry -- and dismantled regulations like the zero tolerance policy for gun dealers and withheld $1 billion in victim services that now 24
▶ 1:00:46Mr. Jackson: States are suing the trump administration for. This is not the federal support our cities need to reduce violence and end crime in the country. We need tough on crime policies which funds federal law enforcement that focuses on preventing illegal guns from flooding streets instead of just patrolling them. 95% of the guns traced to christ in -- crimes and D.C. come from other states.
▶ 1:01:09Mr. Jackson: To be tough on crimes is to atf, shut down rogue gun dealers and disrupt dangerous black markets telling illegal weapons and conversion devices to our communities. To be tough on crime is to protect and fund the bipartisan safer communities act. To be tough on crime is to shut down those gun dealers who break the law and hold manufacturers accountable when they're profiting from our deaths.
▶ 1:01:34Mr. Jackson: Frankly, to be tough on crime is the whole billion years accountable for putting guns and for the battlefield into our backyards every day. We have real solutions to save lives from gun violence have reduce violent crime. Now is a time to protect that progress and build on that momentum. Grandmothers should not be sitting in courts. Grandchildren should not be sitting in caskets. Americans should not be living in fear from this crisis of gun violence when those in the chamber have the power to take action. Thank you.
▶ 1:02:03Chair Grassley: Senator taylor.
▶ 1:02:05Sen. Taylor: Mr. chairman, ranking member and establish members of this committee, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to come and talk to you about memphis crime challenge. I also want to talk about my efforts to make memphis matter. In order to make memphis matter we have to make memphis safe. Memphis consistently ranks amongst america's most dangerous cities. Last year memphis reported 111,000 crimes.
▶ 1:02:37Sen. Taylor: 19,000 arrests. Of those 19,000 arrests, a whopping 56% were dismissed. Violent crime has been rapid. In 2022 went on the city that all of the city on a shooting spree that killed three and wounded others. Cleo henderson kidnapped, ra ped and killed the kindergarten school teacher.
▶ 1:03:08Sen. Taylor: In 2023, saint jude children's research hospital researcher named Dr. alexander polakoff was gunned down in front of his family. That same year, a physician was killed in his clinic by a patient. Fast-forward forward to 2024, detwane gunn was a mass shooter who was let out on his own recognizance.
▶ 1:03:34Sen. Taylor: Jalen lobley, who was out on bail on his own recognizance on gun charges ones of getting into a gunfight with the memphis police department that into the life of officer joseph mckinney. Crime is so bad memphis that last year shelby county, the county that memphis with is in -- is in, experienced the largest decrease in population of any county in the entire country.
▶ 1:04:04Sen. Taylor: Unless we do something memphis will hollow out its middle-class and all that would be left are the extremely poor who cannot afford to leave in the extreme the wealthy who can afford private security to stay. The root of the crisis in my view lies in part with our soros -backed d.a. He was elected in 2022 and started and started in plummeting policies like a proposed they version program for felons caught in possession of a firearm.
▶ 1:04:33Sen. Taylor: He also does not oppose parole for first-degree murder's who are in prison trying to get out. These type of policies undermine justice in memphis. The d.a. Also operates his very own innocence project inside his office that successfully moved michael samples, a twice convicted murderer on death row to life in prison. That makes him eligible for parole.
▶ 1:05:02Sen. Taylor: Allegations of race-based prosecutions in illegal commutations have led to the pending ouster resolution before the legislature and the tennessee supreme court is now reviewing those allegations. A recent report shows our restorative justice scheming district attorney is partnering with progressive, nonprofits -- progressive nonprofits that t encourages cashless bail in the dim manipulate the data into thinking that the public somehow thinks they are safe because of these failed policies.
▶ 1:05:33Sen. Taylor: To counter this I have championed legislation in tennessee such as the d.a. Donor transparency act, the a second opinion act, and we have banned the ability to pay calculator when setting bail. We elevated the safety of the community to be in the top priority when setting bail. We passed a blended senate seat bill to deal with youthful serious offenders.
▶ 1:05:55Sen. Taylor: I even had to pass a law that prohibits the memphis city council from banning routine traffic stop's, and absolutely insane policy that was backed and supported by our d.a. Senator blackburn and I sat in a briefing with the fbi with a outlined operation viper where they have identified 100 gangs in memphis. That operation led to 500 arrests and secured over 100 federal indictments.
▶ 1:06:26Sen. Taylor: Just this one operation alone has reduced certain violent crimes by 25%. I remain confident that president trump's memphis safe task force which includes over a dozen federal agencies also includes the tennessee national guardsmen, that they will succeed in doing the hard work necessary to infiltrate the gangs and arrest routine criminals. The da remains the weak link in this operation.
▶ 1:06:53Sen. Taylor: For those who are arrested to have to be prosecuted in state court he remains that weak link, and to make sure that the dementias task force is successful I will be sponsoring legislation in the next session that will require public certification of any cases that have reduced or not prosecuted because of that from these initiatives. To maximize these efforts I encourage the senate to swiftly confirm mike donovan as a U.S.
▶ 1:07:23Sen. Taylor: District attorney because he's tough on crime, and his leadership will help the prosecutions of memphis and ensure the criminals have the consequences that are not getting under our stay d.a. Lastly, I recommend the department of justice enter into consent decrees that will require the shelby county district attorney and our justice system to enforce tough on crime policies so that memphians can live in their homes, travel about the city they love, and enjoy their property. To make memphis matter, Mr.
▶ 1:07:54Sen. Taylor: Chairman, we have to make memphis safe. Let's also make memphis a model of how this congress can turn around great american cities. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:08:04Chair Grassley: Now a five minute round. Mr. pemberton, I was there with you. Pretty claim the trump project administration did not need to mobilize the national guard in D.C. because D.C.'s crime decreased by 35% in 2024. You suggested that statistic was falsely inflated.
▶ 1:08:30Chair Grassley: In the house oversight committee, chairman mendelson said you are lying. Is that 35% statistic inflated and what is your response to chairman mendelson? Also connected, do you think this is a common crime problem with crime statistics?
▶ 1:08:52Mr. Pemberton: Thank you for that question. What is interesting is when chairman mendelson referred to me is a liar and that congressional testimony there was public information about the internal affairs division at the metropolitan police department announcing they were investigating command staff officials for manipulating crime data. The accusation is they were going into databases, changing felonies to misdemeanors to keep crime numbers down.
▶ 1:09:16Mr. Pemberton: Second of all, at that time the house oversight committee had also announced they launched an investigation into the manipulation crime data as well. In the public notice of that it stated they had a west -- whistleblower in the department that confirmed the pattern of practice. Thirdly, the department of justice had also announced they were investigating whether or not there were violations of the criminal code in the manipulation of crime data.
▶ 1:09:41Mr. Pemberton: To suggest my allegations that it is manipulated was somehow line, I believe that is belied by the facts and evidence. I think the irony is lost on Mr. mendelson. Do I believe that crime data was inflated? Yes, I believe that a yes, I believe that the police department its initial reporting -- I will tell you it is ubiquitous.
▶ 1:10:08Mr. Pemberton: When officers respond to the scene of a crime and they are investigating what they believe is a felony, and inevitably some management official will contact them either by arriving on the scene or by phone and direct them or sometimes order them to take a report for lesser offenses, typically misdemeanors, to keep the stats down. Is obviously a number of investigations into the command staff for their manipulation of data.
▶ 1:10:33Mr. Pemberton: Yes, I think the reporting that crime went down 35% in 2024 and another 25% in the first six months of 2025 -- I don't think those numbers are accurate at all.
▶ 1:10:45Chair Grassley: Thank you. Mrs. cook, you read an impact statement. The sentencing of your grandson. Please explain what the judge said after you read your statement. Do you feel that justice was served?
▶ 1:11:00Mrs. Cook: Thank you. Thank you for the question. We read our impact statement. Marty was so loved and my family. We had at least 30 impact statements. After we read them she said to us thank you for your impact statements. She looks over at the -- I say killer -- he says, is there anything you would like to say?
▶ 1:11:33Mrs. Cook: His attorney stood up and said some things but she says to him when she asks him, I know you had a stressful day. After listening to all of that. Is there anything you would like to say? No, we did not receive justice. He was given consecutively -- concurrently with the time he was charged with guns and drugs 10 years.
▶ 1:12:03Mrs. Cook: Concurrently. He already did four. How many years does that mean he gets five years probation or parole. How many years does he actually do in jail? This is a heinous murder that he committed. He shot my grandson seven times.
▶ 1:12:25Mrs. Cook: He left the room and he went back and shot him more.
▶ 1:12:34Chair Grassley: Thank you, Mrs. cook. Senator taylor, many have pushed for further gun regulation to combating violent crime. We are seeing on the soft on crime cities. What are your thoughts of gun ownership? Are more regulations needed to keep our communities safe?
▶ 1:12:57Sen. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. chairman. We need to remember the purpose of the second amendment was not about what kind of guns we can have. It was about what kind of government we can have. What citizens in memphis are fearful of for the guns on the streets by people that should not have -- if you take for example this picture here.
▶ 1:13:24Sen. Taylor: This is a group of young men at a convenience store posing with long guns and handguns so that they can have a picture for social media. It is these types of pictures I want to try to stress. They don't have these guns because we don't have enough regulations. They have these guns because they don't follow the law. We can pass on the gun laws you want but criminals are criminals by nature.
▶ 1:13:51Sen. Taylor: We have had that problem since cain slew abel with a rock and we don't need to put restrictions on law-abiding citizens who distantly want to protect themselves in their homes. Thank you.
▶ 1:14:05Chair Grassley: Senator durbin.
▶ 1:14:08Sen. Durbin: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. pemberton, the 3000 officers in your union?
▶ 1:14:17Mr. Pemberton: That is correct.
▶ 1:14:20Sen. Durbin: Were you involved at all on january 6?
▶ 1:14:26Mr. Pemberton: I was not there that day. I was at work monitoring the situation but it was not present.
▶ 1:14:30Sen. Durbin: Did you talk to any of your officers who were here or see any to see any video's we or see any to see any video's wr officers were assaulted? >> >do you characterize their experience as a peaceful protest?
▶ 1:14:50Mr. Pemberton: There was definitely a ride that day, officers were injured.
▶ 1:14:55Sen. Durbin: What was your reaction when president donald trump gave a full and unconditional pardon 215 hundred individuals prosecuted for violence against police officers?
▶ 1:15:05Mr. Pemberton: Well, it's frustrating to see that. But what I .2 is, since that day, since january 7, 2021 through today, we've had 1537 officers injured. Someone has assaulted a police officer. 95% of those cases are no paper trail from the U.S. attorney's office. Yes, it is frustrating to have officers assaulted, but the men vast majority of those were arrested and charged and convicted.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Durbin: I'm asking about the full and unconditional pardon by the president. Your reaction to that?
▶ 1:15:40Mr. Pemberton: It is more frustrating to have suspects arrested by cops, and have that case no paper by the U.S. attorney's office, then it is to have people convicted of crimes spend years in jail in the later be pardoned.
▶ 1:15:53Sen. Durbin: I don't follow you. You are saying that since there were assaults aside from january 6 that were not prosecuted, you felt more strongly about that than the parting of the president of 1500 people who violently assaulted --
▶ 1:16:08Mr. Pemberton: More than 1500 officers have been assaulted by people since that day and nothing has happened to the suspects.
▶ 1:16:14Sen. Durbin: Would you put it at the same level of outrage, assaults on your officers, whether in the capitol january 6, and others?
▶ 1:16:26Mr. Pemberton: I don't think anyone should be attacking officers. My frustration, senator, is that no one seem to care about police officers assaulted after that day or before that day. People only care about police officers also put on that day. Police officers are assaulted all the time. No one seemed to care about it and that is our frustration.
▶ 1:16:47Sen. Durbin: I am certainly not in that category, and I don't think most people are. I spent the better life of my life in this building and the U.S. capitol building, and I feel like you do. It is a good deal to democracy and should be respected. The people that broke down the windows and beat up on your police officers are despicable. Giving them a full and unconditional pardon and calling them peaceful protesters is not conducive to seeing you are sympathetic to the police in our nation. I happen to feel that way.
▶ 1:17:19Sen. Durbin: Mr. jackson, you worked on a lot of projects involving state and local government. What was your experience in the previous administration?
▶ 1:17:26Mr. Jackson: We knew that our local communities needed support, whether we sat down with leaders in memphis or birmingham or phoenix, atlanta, the biggest request was how do we keep more guns from getting into our streets?
▶ 1:17:41Mr. Jackson: That is what we specifically focused on, how do we invest more into atf both through appropriations and through white house support, so they can have more crime gun intelligence come to solve crimes before it happens, close homicides, but most importantly, keep guns from coming into their communities. When we look at what is happening in the country, the cities that are the most dangerous are the blue cities in red states where they don't have the regulations.
▶ 1:18:07Mr. Jackson: Places like tennessee where there is no concealed carry permit, no background check, no shoot first law, no secure storage law. Guns are flowing in and out of these communities that are already vulnerable to violence. Working with state and local leaders, that is what we focused on at the federal government, keeping guns out of communities are most vulnerable.
▶ 1:18:25Sen. Durbin: What has happened to funding at atf under this administration?
▶ 1:18:29Mr. Pemberton: We have seen two thirds of the inspectors being cut, and we know that the only entity we have that can keep guns out of our communities right now is the atf, and it is directly under attack by this administration, and frankly by the harmful bills and budgets being proposed.
▶ 1:18:47Sen. Durbin: In chicago, we have a problem with guns coming in from neighboring states which don't do background checks, gun shows and things of that nature. Is that a problem you ran into?
▶ 1:18:58Mr. Jackson: Even in chicago, we have seen a legal crime guns showing up, and the last 10 years, those numbers have doubled. A number of them coming from indiana have tripled, missouri, doubled. These illegal black markets that are flowing guns into cities like chicago are getting more fierce. More folks are profiting off of the deaths in the cities.
▶ 1:19:21Sen. Durbin: To slow the rate of these illegal firearms -- >> gentlemen's time has expired. >> detective pemberton, are drugs -- let me back up.
▶ 1:19:39Sen. Durbin: Explain what the role of drugs in the community have in terms of violence, gangs, that distribute them, presumably engage in a lot of the violence including attacks on police officers and other innocent parties, where do those drugs come from?
▶ 1:19:59Mr. Pemberton: Those drugs can come from anywhere depending on what type they are. Fentanyl, marijuana, heroin, different types of narcotics flow into the country from different means. What it means for an area like the district of columbia is, the entities that actually engage in the distribution of those narcotics, they protect that distribution with guns and violence.
▶ 1:20:26Mr. Pemberton: Obviously, it's a black-market operation, very dangerous, rival gangs are always looking to take over territory and product, cash, so it becomes a very violent endeavor for all involved. Whether that is people trying to purchase narcotics or these folks selling them, or the neighborhoods it is occurring in. For the police to try and intervene into the operation and make arrests, it becomes very dangerous.
▶ 1:20:51Sen. Cornyn: Are drugs the primary point of the realm so to speak for street gangs that engage in this violence?
▶ 1:20:59Mr. Pemberton: It can be. It depends. There are certainly street crews and gangs in the district of columbia that are focused around the distribution of narcotics.
▶ 1:21:09Sen. Cornyn: You mention the drugs come from anywhere. Is it your belief that a substantial amount of those drugs come from across the southern border?
▶ 1:21:20Mr. Pemberton: That is outside of my purview but that is my understanding from the limited --
▶ 1:21:26Sen. Cornyn: And then once they make their way into the united states, street gangs are the distribution network to take over, to distribute those to the ultimate consumer.
▶ 1:21:37Mr. Pemberton: Once they hit an urban area like the district of columbia, yes.
▶ 1:21:41Sen. Cornyn: Are you familiar with the fact that there have been several, a number of notorious attacks against immigrations and customs enforcement officials? They are law officers, are they not?
▶ 1:21:56Mr. Pemberton: They are, correct.
▶ 1:21:59Sen. Cornyn: Are you familiar that there have been attacks against those ice officers? We had four in texas alone, including a recent attack that actually ended up killing some of the detainees, presumably the people that the shooter was trying to protect from the ice detention and deportation proceedings.
▶ 1:22:26Sen. Cornyn: Do you believe that defunding, the disrespect, failure to support and honor our men and women in blue, who are merely enforcing laws passed by congress and other legislative bodies, do you think that has been a major cause for some attacks against law enforcement officers?
▶ 1:22:47Mr. Pemberton: Absolutely. The rhetoric that began in 2020 about defunding the police, eliminating the police, reducing the size and scope, responsibility of police departments, replacing them with violence into ruptures, social workers, all of that nonsense is not only rhetoric but also codified into law and policy a lot of agencies, particularly in urban areas, are still dealing with that.
▶ 1:23:15Mr. Pemberton: Here in the district of columbia, we have 4000 sworn members. We currently have 3100 80. More than 800 vacancies for police officers. All of that can be traced back to that policy and rhetoric. Yes, it has made the situation very unsafe and unstable.
▶ 1:23:30Sen. Cornyn: Senator taylor, I believe there was a comment that there were only 24 deaths in boston during some given period of time. I am struck by the way that people speak about the reduction in crime. We are grateful for that always. But the idea that there were only a certain number of deaths or assaults or robberies or carjackings or the like it seems to me misses the point.
▶ 1:23:58Sen. Cornyn: Isn't the point to have as close to zero as we can possibly have? Is there ever a tolerable level of violence that is acceptable in your community in tennessee or anywhere else in america?
▶ 1:24:12Sen. Taylor: No, and I remind my da all the time that drowning in 10 feet of water feels just like drowning in seven feet of water. We have to get crime down as low as we possibly can and get it manageable.
▶ 1:24:31Sen. Taylor: That is where this memphis safe task force will have a huge benefit because we can bring crime down to match the decrease in numbers of police officers we have, so that when they leave we can maintain that crime level as low as possible, but it has to be manageable. >> time has expired. Senator blumenthal, you are recognized.
▶ 1:24:53Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for being here today. Mr. jackson, there are a lot of areas where we have differences and where there is controversy, but there are programs that we know actually work, and where investments produce results.
▶ 1:25:23Sen. Blumenthal: And that is why I am so disappointed, in fact angry, that there have been cuts in programs -- $500 million in grants cut to nonprofits that provide essential federal support for a whole slew of programs that actually fight crime in our streets and neighborhoods. I have seen them in connecticut. They stop gun violence, drive-by shootings.
▶ 1:25:53Sen. Blumenthal: The kids who no substitute guns for fists. Your role, in your experience, I would be interested in your view on whether those violence intervention programs, community intervention programs, actually provide the kind of victim support and youth mentoring, the stuff that has been stopped by the trump administration, but which we
▶ 1:26:24Sen. Blumenthal: Know -- in fact, I'm a republican colleagues have agreed with us, actually do work. I say they agree with us because the programs were funded through bipartisan agreements just a few years ago. The administration cut $2 million from the alliance of formerly incarcerated men, that seeks to break cycles of violence by reaching out and mentoring.
▶ 1:26:53Sen. Blumenthal: They cut $2 million in funding from the circle of brotherhood, and organization of community violence intervention. I'm not saying every one of these is the gold standard, but there are programs that work. If you throw all of them out, you forgo, in my view, a real opportunity to fight crime. That is not even counting the burn grant funding cuts that go to police.
▶ 1:27:19Sen. Blumenthal: If the admin's serious about crime, it ought to be increasing those grants to local police, not cutting. What are your views?
▶ 1:27:28Mr. Jackson: There have been countless research done on violence intervention and victim service organizations. They have had tremendous success to reduce violence by upwards of 50%. Frankly, these organizations across the country are also applauded by the community. Mr. pemberton called them nonsense. At the white house, we have a top 10 chiefs of the top 10 major cities in the country and the top sheriffs around the country.
▶ 1:27:55Mr. Jackson: Every one of them applauded community members and nonprofits supporting families that suffer loss, like Mrs. cook, that are working with those that are most at risk to prevent violence before it happens. Frankly, they are seeing results. All of our communities where violence intervention ecosystems are the strongest, we see the strongest reductions. There is not one police chief or sheriff in this country that I know will stand up and say that we don't want the community support and partnership to keep our community safer.
▶ 1:28:23Sen. Blumenthal: I think all of us, quite a few of us, have been involved in law enforcement. You cannot do it without resources. Senator durbin was asking you about the cuts in funding for atf. I worked with atf when I was U.S. attorney. They are among the underappreciated of our law enforcement agency.
▶ 1:28:51Sen. Blumenthal: Some of the others get a lot of attention, publicity, glamour, but we are talking about trafficking and smuggling guns particularly. Tell me what resource cuts have made to atf.
▶ 1:29:07Mr. Jackson: We have seen tremendous resource cuts. Some of the most devastating is the cost to inspectors, making sure that we can crackdown on gun dealers violating the law. We were able to shut down 350 websites that were selling clocks which is, able to shut down 400 gun stores that were violating the law. We prosecuted over 600 gun traffickers that were bringing guns into vulnerable communities like memphis, birmingham. Those providing real results of keeping guns off the streets.
▶ 1:29:38Mr. Jackson: If you don't think that's important, just listened to the testimony of kash patel, who bragged about how many guns they were able to get off the streets. They know the way to make our community safer is keeping guns out of the communities. The atf is our strongest tool to do so.
▶ 1:29:53Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you, madam chair.
▶ 1:29:56Sen. Blackburn: Mr. pemberton, would you like to respond?
▶ 1:30:02Mr. Pemberton: Mr. jackson mentioned violence interruption and efficacy, but there is almost no evidence of these bonnets interrupters. One of our city council members have been indicting for accepting bribes from violence interruption organizations. I can name half a dozen suspects who have been arrested for murder, gun charges, drug charges, other violence charges, who have been paid by violence interruption organizations.
▶ 1:30:30Mr. Pemberton: Violence interruption in the district of columbia is a graft, a way for tax dollars to be funneled into the hands of criminals. We shouldn't be spending a dime on violence interruption. There is a reproof it works or that it has any level of efficacy whatsoever.
▶ 1:30:44Sen. Blumenthal: I cannot speak to district of columbia.
▶ 1:30:47Sen. Blackburn: Thank you, Mr. pemberton. Before I turned to senator schmitt, I want to encourage those who are worried about grant cuts to take a look at what the biden administration actually spent the money on baby it was hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove, and I quote "gender affirming medical care" over half $1 million on a podcast series, and academic
▶ 1:31:19Sen. Blackburn: Conference operation. The list goes on and on. I would like to enter into the record, chairman grassley, staff report exposing the disastrous consequences of the blighted department of justice grants to the soros-backed vera institute, and they use taxpayer funds to gain access to progressive prosecutors, just like memphis d.a.
▶ 1:31:48Sen. Blackburn: Who ran on a platform on a cashless bail and increasing the age of accountability for crime. Without objection, I will enter into the record. Senator schmitt, you are recognized. Five minutes.
▶ 1:32:01Sen. Schmitt: Thank you, madam chair. Mr. pemberton, thank you for your service. I want to ask you, the numbers don't lie in the district of columbia, there's been a reduction, 53 percent and homicides, 75% in carjackings. What lessons can be learned at scale in D.C.
▶ 1:32:22Sen. Schmitt: And places like kansas city, for example, that has a high crime rate, an apologist mayor, prosecutor that doesn't want to prosecute?
▶ 1:32:33Mr. Pemberton: Excellent point. What our organization has been shouting for the past five years since I mentioned the rhetoric and policy change in 2020, is you need to have the proper number of police officers and they need to have the tools and resources to go out into these communities and do their job professionally and responsibly, constitutionally. If you do that and have prosecuted that backs the officers, like we do here in the district of columbia, you can reduce crime in seven days.
▶ 1:33:04Mr. Pemberton: That is what we saw in the district of columbia. We saw federal agents surge income of the national guard taking posts on and we saw a prosecutor who took our arrest seriously. Within the first week, there was a remarkable difference.
▶ 1:33:16Sen. Schmitt: And I'm sure a morale boost pay when there are prosecutions and persecutions. You are listed as the former deputy director of the white house office of gun violence prevention, previously served as the executive director of the community justice active fund, now serve as the organization's executive advisor. You read the executive director until 2023. I want to read some past statements from the community justice action fund.
▶ 1:33:46Sen. Schmitt: Cjaf. 2019 an op-ed,cjaf founder and another senior advisor stated it is this cortical moment where we are finally saying firmly that we must divest in policing. In 2020, cjaf stated we must divest from aggressive policing. Public health approaches must be prioritized or policing for gun violence.
▶ 1:34:12Sen. Schmitt: An antiracist approach must always be a part of policymaking and advocacy on gun violence prevention. We all know what happened. Those were statements in 2019, 2020. We all know what happened in the summer of love in 2020 where you had record high violent crime rates including gun crimes, gutted police departments. Does cjaf still support divesting and defunding policing?
▶ 1:34:39Mr. Jackson: Community justice supports the public health approach to violence and recognize that law enforcement is an important part of the ecosystem. I will note, we invested $42 billion in public safety, made some of the largest investments in law enforcement in american history. This administration and this republican leadership is actually proposing and making the largest defunding of law enforcement in american history today.
▶ 1:35:03Sen. Schmitt: You don't deny that the organization said that we must divest in policing?
▶ 1:35:08Mr. Jackson: I cannot speak to an op-ed before I was there.
▶ 1:35:12Sen. Schmitt: Cjaf also said every legislator that open calls for mass deportation is enabling a mass radicalization of white individuals that are now emboldened to commit murder. Does cjaf stand by that statement? Do you believe that?
▶ 1:35:30Mr. Jackson: Can you rephrase that?
▶ 1:35:32Sen. Schmitt: And he legislated the call for mass deportations is enabling a "mass radicalization of white individuals that are now emboldened to commit murder."
▶ 1:35:41Mr. Jackson: I cannot stand with a statement that I didn't write. I don't quite understand.
▶ 1:35:46Sen. Schmitt: Do you agree with that? I just read you the statement. Do you agree with that statement or not?
▶ 1:35:53Mr. Jackson: No, I don't agree with that statement.
▶ 1:35:56Sen. Schmitt: Cjaf also identified eyes as pushing a white nationalist agenda. This white nationalist agenda is used by the department, deportation force of ice and cbp, to lock up black and brown immigrants across the country. It lives or the courts and police departments that lock up and kill black and brown cjaf bodies. Does cjaf stand by that statement? Do you believe that is true?
▶ 1:36:21Mr. Jackson: What is your reference to this?
▶ 1:36:24Sen. Schmitt: Cjaf identified in that same letter I referenced earlier in 2020, that effectively ice was a white nationalist organization that was trying to lock up and kill black and brown bodies.
▶ 1:36:35Mr. Jackson: Again, I cannot speak to someone that was written before.
▶ 1:36:39Sen. Schmitt: Do you believe that?
▶ 1:36:41Mr. Jackson: I cannot speak to that statement.
▶ 1:36:44Sen. Schmitt: You agree? You think ice's mission is white nationalist in nature and its intention is to kill black and brown people?
▶ 1:36:53Mr. Jackson: No.
▶ 1:36:54Sen. Schmitt: I am out of time. I would just point out this organization that you are part of, directly affiliated with george soros, has gotten funding from usaid. If you want to understand why people are committed to making sure usaid doesn't fund these radical organizations, some of these statements are exhibits. Thank you, madam chair.
▶ 1:37:17Sen. Blackburn: Senator booker. You are recognized.
▶ 1:37:23Sen. Booker: I've been in the senate 12 years. I've never seen a hearing like this on a committee that has a track record from working together. Blue city chaos and tragedy, how the trump administration is addressing soft on crime policies. Dear god. We continue in this nation to deepen partisan divide and to undermine the truth that we share common cause, common purpose, and even common sense.
▶ 1:37:53Sen. Booker: In a bipartisan way, we have worked year after year to invest in the resources that keep our communities safe. Now, I'm sitting in a hearing that somehow wants to pit red against blue, as if republicans and democrats don't live in every county and every state and all of us want the same thing, which is lower crime in our communities. I may be the person in this committee that has made a decision in my life of about 25, 30 years ago to move into a high crime neighborhood.
▶ 1:38:23Sen. Booker: I have friends that have died by gun violence. Mentees of mine have died by gun violence. And I am telling you right now come pitting us against each other in this false flight narrative that we don't share that common urgency and cannot find common ground.
▶ 1:38:42Sen. Booker: This committee right now is having a hearing that is not about finding common ground or working to find solutions, but driving a false divide, based upon a false pretext that somehow places that vote for one party over another are more dangerous. And that is just not true. The murder rate in states that voted for donald trump have actually exceeded the murder rate of the states that voted for kamala harris in every year from 2000 to 2023.
▶ 1:39:14Sen. Booker: Over the course of this century, the average murder rate in front of voting states is 50% higher than in harris voting states. Do we really want to talk about crime in that manner? Since 2000 come the top 10 murder state rates have been dominated reliably in places that voted for republicans. The red state murder rate was 33% higher than the blue state murder rate in 2021 and 2022.
▶ 1:39:40Sen. Booker: 2022 was the 23rd consecutive year that murder plate states that voted for the president in this past election have higher rates. Eight out of 10 states that had the highest murder rate in 2022 -- I can go on and on. This is not constructive to the work that we have to do. Anybody who has had the tragedy of losing people they love don't care about our partisan flights, they care about us finding solutions.
▶ 1:40:11Sen. Booker: And we have done that on this committee before. Donald trump signed the first step act into law. Joe biden increased cops grants higher than any other president in the modern era. I am so exhausted by hearings like this that are far more about posturing toward a political divide than trying to create common ground. Let me tell you about common ground.
▶ 1:40:39Sen. Booker: I have worked with some of my colleagues across the aisle to do things like search funding. Me and republican colleagues have established more resources for law enforcement agencies to hire, retain, and train detectives to deal with what is a national problem, homicide clearance rates. There are evidence-based strategies that will keep us safe.
▶ 1:41:05Sen. Booker: A hearing about blue states and red states is a fiction that is being driven in this country, that somehow we have the time ballistic flight that is causing our problems, and that is not it. In fact, that is the problem. We in this country have not understood that we belong to each other, that we share common ground, that we have common values, and there are strategies we could be pursuing as opposed to fighting each other.
▶ 1:41:32Sen. Booker: The kind of partisanship that is toxic in this nation is what we saw with the president's first act. To take criminals who beat police officers, criminals who beat them so savagely, people like brian sicknick died, and then to pardon those police officers for particularly partisan reasons. That is unjustifiable and something that you bring us all together.
▶ 1:42:02Sen. Booker: The pretext for this hearing is a farce. It is belied by the evidence, belied by common sense, and doesn't get this committee back to the work that I've seen done constructively in congress after congress despite who is president or who is in the majority. We in this committee have done the work together to make our country safe. We are seeing crime go down but that is little satisfaction to people who have seen their families victimized by crime. We have work to do, but this ain't it.
▶ 1:42:33Sen. Blackburn: I recognize myself for five minutes. Mrs. cook, we are sorry for your loss. Thank you for being here today. Thank each of you for being here. We are doing something about crime in tennessee. Senator taylor, I want to come to you.
▶ 1:42:54Sen. Blackburn: We had phase one in memphis this summer with the fbi, operation viper, that was very successful, 500 plus arrests, over 100 federal indictments. You have mentioned the soros-funded da that has been a stumbling block, as well as the juvenile court system that has been a stumbling block to addressing the crime situation.
▶ 1:43:26Sen. Blackburn: Phase two is in place. This is the combination of the federal agencies, a dozen agencies plus state resources with tennessee highway patrol, tennessee bureau of investigation, and the national guard.
▶ 1:43:44Sen. Blackburn: I want you to talk for a moment about the impact that federal resourcing has had, and how it helps memphis, who are 500 police officers short. Talk about the impact that is there, and also I want to touch on cashless bail and be loss with you.
▶ 1:44:09Sen. Taylor: Thank you. The impact that operation viper has had already is huge. As you mention, 500 arrests, over 100 federal indictments. My concern is that not all of those arrests will end and federal prosecutions. Many of those arrests will be deferred to the state for prosecution which will be our local district attorney. My concern is, as I said in my opening statement, he is the weak link in all of this.
▶ 1:44:39Sen. Taylor: The cases that get referred to state court, as soon as the federal agencies leave and national guard leaves, thp officers waived, he will drag around and dismiss the cases, just like he has done in other cases. There are other cases that he has dismissed.
▶ 1:45:06Sen. Taylor: One is a federal judge who had an intern, someone attempted to take his life, and that case has been dismissed. There was an interstate shooting of a constituent of mine who called me, the case drugged on and ultimately dismissed. His m.o. It is to drag this out so that everyone leaves the spotlight and then downgrading the cases. That will be the weak link in all of this effort to make memphis safer.
▶ 1:45:34Sen. Blackburn: The d.a. You are referring to, mulroy, actually took office in 2022. During his campaign, he stated -- and I'm going to quote -- he would avoid cash bail. He also stated that he wanted to "transform the criminal justice system" in memphis.
▶ 1:46:04Sen. Blackburn: Certainly, he has done that. We have put a lot of energy into federal support and state support, to make certain that memphis is going to be safe. But it appears what we have is social justice activists who are trying to impede that progress. Is that accurate?
▶ 1:46:27Sen. Taylor: That is accurate. He has a merry band of distorted justice schemers trying to make memphis look like a mad max movie, except the cars in the music are not as good.
▶ 1:46:39Sen. Blackburn: Let me come to you for a moment on cargo theft. Senator klobuchar and I are working on legislation. It is the cargo security innovation act. We know that memphis is america's distribution center, with the port of memphis, all five class a railroads, fedex, I-40 that goes from the east coast to the west coast.
▶ 1:47:13Sen. Blackburn: This status as a logistics hub has drawn these cartels and gangs and organized crime rings to memphis. They are attacking our supply chains. I want you to speak for just a moment about cargo theft in the area and why it's important to memphis.
▶ 1:47:32Sen. Taylor: Thank you. As you mention, cargo theft is incredibly important to memphis. We are the home of fedex, all of those railroad you mentioned come through here, we have the mississippi river, we have the second largest cargo airport in the world in memphis. We have river, roads, railway, and runway.
▶ 1:47:56Sen. Taylor: You reported that -- or the memphis police reported that cargo thefts are down in memphis. You push back on that. When I checked into that, not all incidents of cargo theft reported the same agency. Many times they may be reported to the railroad police or the other state and federal agencies, so the memphis police department may not know that there has been cargo theft, or that a particular agency is investigating it.
▶ 1:48:22Sen. Blackburn: Right.
▶ 1:48:24Sen. Taylor: What is happening now is the railroad companies are taking action themselves. They moved their yard to a nearby county so they don't have to stop in memphis. Railroads are now coordinating their time through the switches so they don't have to stop in memphis. They are doing everything they can. We need your bill passed. I have a bill at the state level that will help to do it.
▶ 1:48:47Sen. Blackburn: Thank you. Senator klobuchar, you are recognized.
▶ 1:48:54Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for appearing today. Mrs. cook, so sorry for your loss and thank you for being here. I'm a former prosecutor, spent a lot of time since being here focusing on some of the issues that senator blackburn just discussed with cargo that we think could be helpful. Also in helping to fund local police. I think that is a lot of the answer here. My state has had its share of tragedies.
▶ 1:49:22Sen. Klobuchar: This summer, the assassination of my friend melissa hortman, her husband, and then of course, annunciation church, where these kids were gone the down during mass through stained window -- g unned ■down during mass through stained-glass window. Despite being strapped, incredible story, the first officer was there three and half minutes after the first 911 call.
▶ 1:49:49Sen. Klobuchar: Within 14 minutes of the call, 20 people were in the ambulance, all intern kits, everything, off to the hospital. That is how so many lives were saved despite losing both fletcher and harper, these two adorable children. We saw the same thing in michigan this weekend. So that leaves me to a few answers here. One is how we support local law enforcement.
▶ 1:50:19Sen. Klobuchar: Mr. pemberton, if you want to talk about local law enforcement funding, better equipment, anything we can do on a local basis for the local police, to me, that is part of the answer here.
▶ 1:50:30Mr. Pemberton: Funding is critical. As I said in my testimony, as I've been saying throughout the hearing, staffing levels are paramount. We have to find a way to get to staffing levels back to where they need to be. Outside of that, particularly in the district of columbia, our facilities are in deplorable condition. Our stations need ton of work, locker rooms are moldy, the bathrooms are not functional, the parking lots are not in good shape.
▶ 1:51:01Mr. Pemberton: We need more vehicle moves more take-home vehicles, more ballistic armor. There are all kinds of things that we can do to make sure our members are properly staffed, that they have clean and healthy facilities, have the proper training to go out and do their job.
▶ 1:51:15Sen. Klobuchar: Do you think that would help with retirement? Recruitment and retaining, when it comes to officers? What else do you think would be helpful? Of course, we face this with the capitol police. Senator blood and I worked on that hard. Now senator padilla. We worked hard to pass on legislation to work with benefits and salaries and the like. Could you address retention and hiring police officers?
▶ 1:51:44Mr. Pemberton: Obviously, it is competitive down. There are significantly fewer people applying for the job for police officer there there were five or six years ago. All of these agencies are now competing for the same smaller pool of candidates. It is much harder to get them in the door. Anything we can do to deal with salaries and benefits, packages, that is paramount.
▶ 1:52:10Mr. Pemberton: As you mentioned, having the facilities that are top-notch and having the proper tools, also a big deal.
▶ 1:52:16Sen. Klobuchar: That would include getting federal funding to local police departments?
▶ 1:52:21Mr. Pemberton: Absolutely, yes ma'am.
▶ 1:52:24Sen. Klobuchar: Mr. jackson, I come from a state of hunting. When I look at all of these proposals, when it comes to firearms, assault weapons, I think, does this hurt my uncle and his dear stand? Whenever I get one of these pieces of legislation, my answer is no. I had a discussion last week with director patel about assault weapons bands, what we could do. Could you talk about that?
▶ 1:52:57Sen. Klobuchar: Not our discussion, but one of the things that I raised to him -- I'm in favor of an assault weapons ban, in favor of more background checks. A number of things that we could do when it comes to these assault weapons getting into the hands of people that shouldn't have them. One first step would be to get the age up to 21. Both in uvalde and buffalo, the shooters got their guns the minute they turned 18.
▶ 1:53:27Sen. Klobuchar: The 21 age is the same age that already applies to purchasing handguns from federally licensed dealers. Talk about that and how that could be helpful as some kind of -- I don't want to use the word compromise when dealing with little kids being gunned down in a church, 12-year-olds try to protect six-year-olds. But talk about that as a part of the solution in addition to background checks, assault weapons ban.
▶ 1:53:51Mr. Jackson: It's a really important step to make sure that we keep the guns out of the hands of our youth. One of the witnesses earlier showed a picture of young men with firearms in tennessee. There is no minimum age to purchase there. That is a big issue. We cannot just demonize some youth and celebrity others for buying guns at a young age, recognizing that gun violence is the number one cause of death of youth in the country. Even before we go there, there's a lot more low hanging fruit.
▶ 1:54:19Mr. Jackson: We can crackdown on machine-gun conversion devices, clock switches, all which we know is feeling the dots across the country. This trump administration through the throu is pushing back on that. I think we can at least focus on enforcing the laws on the books to keep guns out of the hands of those in crisis while we look for more solution for our youth.
▶ 1:54:45Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you.
▶ 1:54:47Sen. Blackburn: Senator britt. You are recognized.
▶ 1:54:53Sen. Britt: I appreciate all of you being here today to discuss this important topic. Let's be clear. The problem we are facing today was created by blue cities. It was created by plans coming from the other side of the aisle, whether it is cashel with bail policies, dahlgren classifications of whole categories of crime, undermining rights and protections afforded by law enforcement officers like we saw in D.C.
▶ 1:55:17Sen. Britt: In 2022 which detective pemberton, I want to talk to you about that, or creating system to ensure pretrial releases of even the most violent offenders, like what happened in memphis, were done. When we are looking at this, I take issue with what the ranking member had to say. He specifically pointed out alabama. Truth be told, a percent of our population in birmingham and montgomery accounts for 40% of our crime. Both of those cities have been run by democratic mayors.
▶ 1:55:48Sen. Britt: In particular in birmingham, for the past 50 years, the mayor has been a democrat. We cannot pick and choose here and pretend like that is a whole state problem. We are talking about specific areas. We want to keep these people safe. Here is the deal. Why can't we all agree that Mrs. cook, your grandson never deserve to die? Your grandson should still be with us today.
▶ 1:56:14Sen. Britt: And we need to utilize every tool in our toolbox to make sure that that is the reality for another grandmother somewhere in D.C. or wherever across this country. You said today that when you told your story, that no one heard you. You said you showed up in the mayor's office, that you led a movement, you tried to gather people to bring attention to this, you asked for answers. And for months and months, nobody would give you any.
▶ 1:56:43Sen. Britt: Nobody felt like your grandson was worthy of finding who killed him, shooting him seven times, and holding them accountable. You said today for the very first time that you feel hear d. Can you talk about what it means with president trump placing emphasis on keeping our communities safe, what it means to somebody like you who has lost someone, your very first born grandson, so near and dear to your heart?
▶ 1:57:14Mrs. Cook: Yes, I can. Thank you for that. As I said, I am a washingtonian. I am 69 years old. I grew up in washington, I know it will. I went to school there. So I know crime in our city. I know that the laws, the legislators, a lot of things need to be changed to combat it.
▶ 1:57:42Mrs. Cook: If we don't send the killer a message, then they are going to keep killing. If you are only going to give me a slap on the wrist and let me out, then when I get that vacation, three hots and a cot for a little while, some rest, I will come back out and do the same thing. There is no reform in there. When it comes time to my grandson -- and I am living with that, and he gets maybe only 10 years?
▶ 1:58:13Mrs. Cook: He shot my grandson, not seven times, eight. Then he took his body and threw it on the side of susan parkway. We had to look for my grandson. We got backbones. It took us nine months to find his remains, and we had to find his remains. We had to solve the case. We had to do the investigation. D.C.
▶ 1:58:38Mrs. Cook: Has had money to be able to do things like this until now, when somebody is standing up and talking about it. Then we want to raise our heads and say we want to do something. Something could have been done long time ago.
▶ 1:58:51Sen. Britt: Thank you for raising your voice. Appreciate it. Detective pemberton, you are well aware of D.C.'s 20 comprehensive police and reform act and the impact it had on mpt. I am proud to have voted to repeal the law in the past and cosponsored senator cruz's bill to repeal it. The passage of that law is one of the many things that I think members of the D.C.
▶ 1:59:16Sen. Britt: City council have demonstrated their lack of concern for public safety and general on seriousness about the issues in front of us. I am sure you will have an opportunity to talk more about that law, which I look forward to hearing, and if not, I will have some written questions.
▶ 1:59:35Sen. Britt: But when you have elected leaders that undermine law enforcement, that don't seem to be standing shoulder to shoulder with law enforcement, that seem to be not having their back, can you tell me what that does for morale and recruitment and retention of law enforcement officers?
▶ 1:59:52Mr. Pemberton: It is absolutely on quantifiably the worst piece of public safety legislation I've ever seen. I can tell you exactly what it did. It took us from nearly 4000 police officers to 3200 police officers in five years. We went from 30,000 arrests per year to 15,000 arrests per year. It created liabilities for police officers for administrative and a civil, and criminal penalties even when they do their job properly. We have seen that and acted on.
▶ 2:00:24Mr. Pemberton: Additionally, it made it so it is impossible to hold criminals accountable even when they're convicted of violent crimes. It is absolutely destroyed the police department in ways that I certainly don't have time to get into. It is the most important piece of legislation to our members and to the nation's capital.
▶ 2:00:39Sen. Britt: Thank you for your service. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Let me begin by offering my condolences to Mrs. cook. Not just as a senator but as a parent, my heart goes out to you. Appreciate you being here today. I also want to ask the committee to take a step back and recall the theme and suppose a focus of this hearing today.
▶ 2:01:10Sen. Britt: Because as I have been monitoring, I cannot help but take away the false political narrative that blames crime in america and so-called "blue cities" while conveniently ignoring some facts. Because the truth is, republican led states have had murder rates 50% higher than democratic led states for decades. Look at the stats in mississippi. Look at the stats in alabama.
▶ 2:01:40Sen. Britt: Look at the stats in louisiana. Yet we don't hear president trump calling for the deployment of national guard troops or the marines or any federal agency into jackson or baton rouge. Instead, the trump administration has chosen to target cities like los angeles, washington, D.C., portland, threatening others, not because the cities were uniquely unsafe, but because their residents had
▶ 2:02:11Sen. Britt: The audacity to vote for a candidate for president other than donald trump. In my home state of california, I can cite example after example of how we have invested at the state and local level, not just an police to -- yes, that's important -- but also in crime prevention strategies. Community-based policing strategies, mental health programs, gun safety initiatives. And those investments work when taken together.
▶ 2:02:40Sen. Britt: Los angeles saw a 27% drop in homicides thanks to these strategies. That is a public safety effort. By contrast, let's look at what we have done at the federal level. The republican majority in congress has supported cutting funding for the atf by $400 million, cutting funding, not augmenting resources.
▶ 2:03:07Sen. Britt: They rescinded over a billion dollars in mental health and school safety funding, even shut down the white house office of gun violence prevention. At the same time, they have weakened background checks and effectively legalized machine guns by allowing certain weapons to bypass federal bans. Meanwhile, they are diverting resources away from counterterrorism and child exploitation cases and efforts to combat drug trafficking.
▶ 2:03:36Sen. Britt: This committee has a responsibility to call out these facts. As members of this committee, we must also defend the constitution against executive overreach. Deploying federal troops and masked agents into american cities without lawful basis is not just a policy disagreement, it is a fundamental threat to democratic norms and the separation of powers between states and the federal government.
▶ 2:04:05Sen. Britt: My first question, general and europe, as some who commanded the illinois national guard, how do you view the danger of using guard units or even active duty service members in cities like los angeles and portland and washington, D.C. for local law enforcement efforts?
▶ 2:04:23Mr. Enyart: Thank you, senator. As a commander of national guard forces, former commander, you need to understand that national guard forces are not trained law enforcement officers. We may have a few police officers in our ranks who happen to be cops in civilian life, but the vast majority of national guardsmen, and for that matter, active duty forces, are not police officers.
▶ 2:04:50Mr. Enyart: Mp units are trained in military response, military law, not civilian.
▶ 2:04:55Sen. Padilla: Given that, what risks to be face if the executive branch normalizes, or the republican majority in congress allows the executive branch to unilaterally do this in branch to unilaterally do this with troops in american cities?
▶ 2:05:12Mr. Enyart: There will clearly be a disconnect between the american citizenry and the american military. The military is meant to protect us from foreign enemies, not to police our streets. That is what civilian law enforcement is for. There are plenty of federal law enforcement eight and that can provide the response.
▶ 2:05:30Sen. Padilla: I know my time is running out quickly here. Have you learned from this experience in los angeles, the test case for this administration, I have a concern about our national readiness. From a readiness standpoint, what does it mean when military resources are diverted from national defense and disaster response to conduct police civilian activities?
▶ 2:05:54Mr. Enyart: Every dollar you spend on a misuse of military force is a dollar that you don't have available for national defense, a dollar you don't have available to respond to the next hurricane katrina in new orleans or the next mississippi river flood or the next tornado in st. Louis. It is spending resources they need to be allocated where they are properly allocated, to the defense of our great nation, and to recovery from national disasters.
▶ 2:06:22Sen. Padilla: Final comment, you pointed out some key examples from the guard perspective. Separate and apart from the department of defense. When marines are deployed to los angeles, it took those marines away from other critical missions imperative for our national security. It is not just local communities feeling safe or not, but whether or not as a nation we are more secure or not. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:06:54Sen. Padilla: It is clear from this hearing the democratic talking points have come out. Senator padilla and senator booker been a great deal of time talking about "red states." the reason they were talking about them, unfortunately, red states have blue cities, and that is where the crime is. In 2023, the largest cities with the most homicides per 100 thousand people, number one was new orleans, louisiana. Number two was memphis, tennessee. Number three was st. Louis. Number four was baltimore city.
▶ 2:07:24Sen. Padilla: Number five was washington, D.C. democrat crime policies kill people. Soros da's who let murderers out of jail kill people. When you don't prosecute violent criminals, innocent victims die. Right here in washington, D.C., 2012, murders in D.C. totaled fewer than 100. By 2023, murders had nearly tripled. Two hits of the four lives taken in a single year.
▶ 2:07:56Sen. Padilla: These are the real world consequences of democrat crime policies that let murderers go. Simple cause and effect. If you release murderers onto the streets, they will key people and they do it all across the country. We need to understand these are not just numbers. Here are some of the faces behind those numbers. Edward, 19, brutally assaulted during a carjacking attempt in D.C.
▶ 2:08:27Sen. Padilla: Eric, 21, a young congressional intern gunned down in the capital city. Honesty, three years old, just a toddler, killed by stray gunfire. Sarah lin, 26, grn, is really embassy staff members, on the verge of their engagement brutally murdered.
▶ 2:08:56Sen. Padilla: Michael, 56, husband, father of three, former trumpet illustration official, shot in cold blood during a D.C. carjacking. These are not just names, these are sons and daughters, husbands and wives, parents and grandchildren. Mrs. cook, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing the unbelievable pain and loss that you have endured. Through the loss of your grandson. I am sorry.
▶ 2:09:24Sen. Padilla: Your grandson should have been protected. The city should have protected your grandson. He should still be alive. Tragically this pattern keeps happening. Senator booker said that we should have bipartisan agreement. That's a great idea, we should have bipartisan agreement. How about we all come together and say let's start murders? How about we say let's stop rape? How about we come together and say let's stop attacking pedophiles?
▶ 2:09:55Sen. Padilla: I want you to look at what happened when the national guard went to D.C. robbery fell by 57%, homicide fell by 50 8%, sex abuse fell by 40%. Those are real results. Detective pemberton, if you would tell this committee, what is the effect of the 2022 comprehensive police and justice reform law? And what were the benefits for the people of D.C. if congress passes my queen D.C. act?
▶ 2:10:22Mr. Pemberton: Thank, senator cruz. Thank you for introducing the clean D.C. act which repeals the conference of policing act which is unquestionably one of the worst pieces of legislation I've ever seen. It has completely dismantled and destroy the metropolitan police department to the tune of more than 800 police officers short, eliminated bargaining rights, eliminated their due process rights, it has changed the use of force policies so that facts unknown to officers can be used
▶ 2:10:53Mr. Pemberton: Against them and charged against them criminally, exposes all of their personnel to public databases. It is an 86-page bill. Each subtitle in the bill is worse than the last. It was designed to defund and destroy the police department. It was designed to hamstring police officers and make sure criminals even when convicted would be protected from being held accountable. Repealing that bill is everything. It is the alpha and omega affixing criminal justice in the district of columbia. We must repeal that as soon as possible.
▶ 2:11:23Mr. Pemberton: This is what we've been shouting from the rooftops for five years. We knew it when we saw the language in the bill, no one listens to us. Thankfully now, thanks to your bill, congress implied's bill on the house side, we can get this repealed so we can get back to fixing the police department and bringing crime done permanently in the nation's capital.
▶ 2:11:43Sen. Cruz: Detective pemberton, you are the head of the police officers union. In your judgment, passing the clean D.C. act would make washington dc safer, would reduce murders, reduce violent crime.
▶ 2:11:58Mr. Pemberton: Permanently, yes, sir.
▶ 2:12:01Sen. Cruz: I would point out again, senator booker and none of the democrats are here now, senator booker so we should be bipartisan. I can think of few issues that are more natural for bipartisanship than stopping crime. It used to be the case. This committee used to work together when it comes to violent crime. It's only been in the last few years that elected democrats have decided that releasing violent criminals is something to be celebrated earlier Mr.
▶ 2:12:35Sen. Cruz: Taylor made reference to soros da's. George soros has spent millions of dollars electing da's all over the country who turn around and let violent criminals go. The democrat party unleash the crazy with the abolish the police movement. The abolish the police movement was not just in the abstract. Cities all across the country slashed funding for police.
▶ 2:13:04Sen. Cruz: Minneapolis/the funding for police. Nypd cut its funding over a billion dollars. Sadly, austin, texas couple funding for its police $150 million. When you take police off the streets, people die. There is a direct cause and effect but there are two ways to abolish the police. What is going after the police themselves which democrats have decided that is their party position. But the second way you abolish police is you put in place soros da's who just won't charge anyone.
▶ 2:13:36Sen. Cruz: That means the police cannot do their job because when they arrest a murderer, a soros d.a. Turns around and lets them go. When they arrest a car? Or, a soros d.a. Lets them go. For the life of me, I do not understand why democrats are not celebrating the reduction in crime -- go back to a reduction in crime in D.C. -- that we have seen with the guard on the ground.
▶ 2:14:04Sen. Cruz: You should be cheering a 57% decrease in crime, robbery, 58% decrease in homicide. There are people in D.C. a lot because the guard is there, and not a single democrat is saying that is good. Not a single democrat is saying that we are glad those people are alive. Instead they are saying to come off the street and let the murderers run free. That is not serving anybody. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:14:33Sen. Cruz: >> just a second, senator hawley. Go ahead. C1 thanks to all the witnesses for being here. Ms. cooke, I'm sorry for what you and your family have had to endure. I want to talk about some of these policies that have gotten to where we are today. Mr.
▶ 2:14:59Sen. Cruz: Jackson, you are deputy director in the biden white house for gun violence and a special assistant to the president, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> you are also affiliated with the community justice action fund. >> yes, I'm also a survivor of gun violence. >> when were you director? >> 2021-2023. >> and you are affiliated with them now? >> yes. >> do you disclose your donors?
▶ 2:15:29Sen. Cruz: >> yes. >> all of the donors are public? You are funded by the tides advocacy group? >> they are a fiscal sponsor. >> george soros is a donor to the tides advocacy group. >> that is our fiscal sponsor so they handle our hr, our back office.
▶ 2:15:52Sen. Hawley: Great. >> there one of 300 organizations. We pay them to be a fiscal sponsor.
▶ 2:16:01Sen. Hawley: You are a subset of that organization which she helps to fund. Just wanted to get a level set. I want to ask you about some of the policies you have advocated. I haven't has to question yet. I've got a lot of questions. I will give you time. Let's talk about this report you issued, a policymakers playbook and I will ask you to read into the record, Mr.
▶ 2:16:30Sen. Hawley: -- to enter into the record.
▶ 2:16:33Chair Grassley: Without objection.
▶ 2:16:36Sen. Hawley: You advocated defunding the police because the long-term goal is to fundamentally reimagine how states serve its citizens in the project of public safety. You say police departments traumatized residents the racist over policing and the goal is to not add any more money to police funding. Why is it that denying policing to the most vulnerable communities is a solution?
▶ 2:17:03Sen. Hawley: Why is that a good idea? >> I and no way stand with the law enforcement. That is what your report said.
▶ 2:17:16Sen. Hawley: Wait, your report said you wanted to defund the police. Do you renounce this report? Do you renounce the report you authored? Here it is. >> this isn't an op-ed, this is a report. A policymakers playbook without policing communities. When you were executive director. Now you say you don't know anything about it.
▶ 2:17:45Sen. Hawley: Now you say you haven't heard of it just like the democrats who say we are all for the police now. >> look, you can look at documents --
▶ 2:17:54Sen. Hawley: Do you renounce this report now?
▶ 2:17:59Mr. Jackson: My answer is I lead the efforts to --
▶ 2:18:03Sen. Hawley: You have advocated defunding the police as executive director of an organization you still lead and are affiliated with.
▶ 2:18:12Mr. Jackson: I never said you see me advocate for that directly. I advocate for a comprehensive approach.
▶ 2:18:21Sen. Hawley: This is so typical of what the democrats do now. After your policies have transparently failed and led to the deaths of millions of americans, you say you have never heard of deep ending the lease. Your own organization recommends that. You say we ought to invest in instead of funding the police.
▶ 2:18:44Sen. Hawley: You say we need to invest in programs that acknowledge the need for safe space initiatives led by lesbian, gay, bisexual, to spirit, trans and gender nonconforming people. What is two spirit?
▶ 2:18:59Mr. Jackson: You are pulling some interesting quotes here.
▶ 2:19:02Sen. Hawley: If you look at the report, the report --
▶ 2:19:07Mr. Jackson: It is investing in outreach workers.
▶ 2:19:12Sen. Hawley: You say we ought to invest in two spirit community programs? What is a two spirit? What is two spirit? Don't fund the police, but create safe spaces for two spirit people. I don't know what that is.
▶ 2:19:31Mr. Jackson: Honestly, I'm not completely aware of the language.
▶ 2:19:36Sen. Hawley: You wrote the report. What is a two spirit individual? This is your policymakers playbook. You are the witness called by the democrats on this committee so I assume you reflect their views. You want to find safe spaces for two spirit individuals. What is a two spirit person.
▶ 2:19:57Mr. Jackson: I feel like I'm looking at a two-faced individual.
▶ 2:20:01Sen. Hawley: No, sir, I'm reading you your own words. You don't have any solutions, you want to invest in gobbledygook and take away money from police officers and when you are called on the record, you deny it. It is all there in black-and-white and it is a disgrace.
▶ 2:20:19Mr. Jackson: We reduced homicides by 31% and is someone who has been shot and almost killed, I take offense.
▶ 2:20:28Sen. Hawley: You deny your own words and are leading this committee astray and frankly your policies are absurd.
▶ 2:20:33Chair Grassley: I don't think we are getting anyplace.
▶ 2:20:36Mr. Jackson: We can keep going.
▶ 2:20:39Chair Grassley: Senator whitehouse.
▶ 2:20:42Senator Whitehouse: I have the following information from the council of state governments and the fbi and that is that alaska, tennessee, arkansas, louisiana, missouri and kansas all have violent crime rates in 2024 that are worse than illinois.
▶ 2:21:11Senator Whitehouse: And memphis, little rock, cleveland, kansas city, st. Louis, and dayton all have worst violent crime rates in 2024 then chicago.
▶ 2:21:34Senator Whitehouse: If you look at gun homicide rates the top eight counties for gun homicides in the united states of america are city of st.
▶ 2:21:49Senator Whitehouse: Louis county, missouri, washington county, mississippi, holmes county, mississippi, hines county, mississippi, leflore county mississippi, orleans parish louisiana, coma county mississippi and dallas county, alabama.
▶ 2:22:10Senator Whitehouse: So I think the people in those places have just as much of a right to a safe community as folks in chicago do, but scenes from the actual statistics that it is way more dangerous to live in those places than it is in chicago. I also want to say having been the U.S.
▶ 2:22:39Senator Whitehouse: Attorney for my state of rhode island, having been the attorney general, those of you who don't know attorneys general may know there are three states where the attorney general has full criminal jurisdiction, delaware, alaska, rhode island. No da's, it all came through me. So we worked a lot on crime issues and on community policing issues.
▶ 2:23:04Senator Whitehouse: Here are some of the results that were achieved after the transition to community policing began. Decreases in total violent crime from 1990 through 2024, down 73%. Robbery. Down 87.5%.
▶ 2:23:35Senator Whitehouse: Aggravated assault down 63%. Burglary down 95%. Larceny down 66%. Vehicle theft down 91%. These are transformative numbers.
▶ 2:23:58Senator Whitehouse: And behind them are people's lives that were not burdened by crime because the providence police did a very good job of transitioning to a new way of policing. And behind them came our court system. We now have a drug court. I flipped the switch that kicks that loose when I was attorney general. We now have a veterans court.
▶ 2:24:27Senator Whitehouse: If you want to spend a high-quality day, go look at graduation and veteran -- in veterans court, where the veterans and the family gather around the individual when he has completed the work and instead of going out the back door in handcuffs, he is going out with his family into the hallway to go home. With a very low recidivism rates.
▶ 2:24:56Senator Whitehouse: We have even started a mental health court to deal with the interaction between mental health issues and criminal activity and engagement with law enforcement. So we know what works. We have proven what works. We didn't need soldiers running around on our streets to make it work.
▶ 2:25:17Senator Whitehouse: We made it work because the providence police and other rhode island, because the providence police changed their way of doing business. And I can attest that community relations between all the different elements are pretty excellent.
▶ 2:25:44Senator Whitehouse: So good that our former police chief was brought down to doj to run the police relations for the department of justice. There is a way to do this. It doesn't require yelling and shouting. It doesn't require military deployment into the streets.
▶ 2:26:07Senator Whitehouse: It requires police officers doing the good job that they know how to do backed up by courts that know how to make the distinction between somebody who is a real criminal and somebody who has a mental health issue and somebody who is a veteran who needs more support and somebody who needs a drug interdiction. We can do this better than we are and I hope this has been somewhat helpful in trying to reboot this conversation. Thank you.
▶ 2:26:34Chair Grassley: Senator tillis.
▶ 2:26:36Senator Tillis: Thank you everybody for being here. Mr. pemberton, I watched a lot of the testimony and questions from my office before I got here. I think you did a good job of responding to the question about the january 6 violence but let me tell you, I think every single person who got pardoned who was convict it, clearly convicted of assaulting a police officer I think should still be in prison if their term went beyond today and I think it was a horrible statement made to the
▶ 2:27:08Senator Tillis: Capitol police to do anything else. There were a lot of people and the thing in this committee were people raise their voices and kind of talk past each other, they didn't mention that there were several people who weren't overly prosecuted. Man, there were a lot of people that should still be in prison. Ms. cook, I'm sorry for your loss.
▶ 2:27:35Senator Tillis: Washington, d c strikes me as a unique jurisdiction where I believe the president was absolutely right to surgery sources here to settle down the situation. I've lived in this city is my capacity as a senator for 10 years and I was over northern virginia before moving to north carolina and I've seen the ebb and flow of crime and I'm glad the president did what he did to make our community safer, your community safer. I'm very sorry about your grandson. Mr.
▶ 2:28:05Senator Tillis: Taylor, I've got a real problem with this idea of us going to various states. I have a brother who served in the legislature in tennessee. I grew up in tennessee. Go vols. They're having a decent season for a change. To be honest with you if I saw the president of the united states surging resources to north carolina when I had a super majority I would consider it a personal failure on my part , that I hadn't figured out how to make my stay safer.
▶ 2:28:35Senator Tillis: The reason I say that is that I agreed to a certain extent with the testimony in the national guard. I've spent a lot of times in communities. I want to ask you a question about this, Mr. pemberton, it's a lot like you hear were special operators operating in very dangerous places around the world.
▶ 2:29:02Senator Tillis: That you need to community engagement, you need law-enforcement officers on the street that are actually welcomed by the community, they are out there, they know the people, the leaders, the people who give them an idea of where the unsafe places are. It is not just about the strong arm of law enforcement, it is the right balance, do you agree with that? >> absolutely. I think it is important to develop those relationships.
▶ 2:29:31Sen. Tillis: The question I have is why in the hell are we letting off elected officials in memphis and other cities who are failing the people that elected them? Why are we letting them off? Mr. taylor, why should I let the mayor of memphis or the mayor of other, several other cities that have an incident rate that is unacceptable, why should I allow federal dollars in resources beyond the joint task forces
▶ 2:30:01Sen. Tillis: That go on every day in tennessee and north carolina, why should you welcome, number one acknowledge that tennessee can't get it done without federal intervention and number two, let these liberal elected officials off the hook and mask a systemic problem that is going to come back the minute the national guard goes away? Why is that a good?
▶ 2:30:22Mr. Taylor: Well, it's not a good thing. What I would recommend this body consider and I set it in my opening statement, the left and the progressive nonprofits I talked about, for years, they have pushed the justice department to come into these communities.
▶ 2:30:40Sen. Tillis: I would like to spend some more time. I'm trying to stay on time here. I think we are making a huge mistake by going in and papering over a fundamental problem. It is going to go away. Mr. jackson, you mentioned in your testimony, the safer communities act, I was one of the people that negotiated this bill and passed it.
▶ 2:31:08Sen. Tillis: I want to tell you something, there is a lot of good in this bill and all the bad that some of my colleagues was going to said would happen, they are dead wrong, but let me tell you what I wished I'd been able to do.
▶ 2:31:24Sen. Tillis: I wish I'd been able to put into law that no jurisdiction that has cashless veil, that is a sanctuary jurisdiction, any of those things could be qualified for any of these behavioral health resources because there are plenty of people and municipalities and governments that could benefit from that, but I don't want us to go into an area where it is going to be some optimized because of the failure of elected leaders that allow horrible things like Ms. cook.
▶ 2:31:54Sen. Tillis: I would like for folks to stop talking past each other, you seem like a good man, you seem like -- you are a victim of gun violence, I've got to look at republicans who are not living up, but the liberal leaders should not get a dime if in fact they are making their communities less safe. Thank you, Mr. chair. >> Mr. chairman, may I comment? I think it is important.
▶ 2:32:25Chair Grassley: Keep it short.
▶ 2:32:27Mr. Taylor: What I was going to say is what is critically important to hold these officials accountable, senator tillis, is that the justice department has come into communities and entered into consent decrees forcing the police to tie their hands when fighting crime. We now need to reverse that.
▶ 2:32:49Mr. Taylor: We need you to come into the communities to force the da and the justice system to enforce these tough on crime policies so we can save people's lives. We need to take their playbook and flip it and I think that will make a lot of community safer.
▶ 2:33:04Sen. Tillis: That's a great point. Thank you.
▶ 2:33:08Chair Grassley: Senator hirono.
▶ 2:33:13Senator Hirono: All of our cities and communities should be safe. It doesn't matter if they are led by democratic or republican governors or mayors and the senator whitehouse pointed out, there are high crime rates in places led by republicans and all this focus on the fact that democrat cities are more crime-ridden are just full of you know what and I think we need to get off this kind of politicization of the safety of
▶ 2:33:43Senator Hirono: Our cities. Let's just pay attention if I hear one more time that all we democrats want to defund the police. Do you not even listen to any of us to say that is not our position. Is there any understanding of the fact that we are not all in that boat? My gosh.
▶ 2:34:14Senator Hirono: It is just really, the word ridiculous comes to mind when people are yelling and screaming about positions we are not even taking. And as long as we are looking at facts, why don't we look at facts? Why don't we look at how we can truly prevent crime? I would need to train our police and we need to have community policing.
▶ 2:34:46Senator Hirono: Those are all good things to support, but unfortunately we have a regime that for example the department of justice canceled over 800 million in public safety grants including 100 million in grants for violence prevention.
▶ 2:35:07Senator Hirono: This is the administration that wants to prevent violence and send national guard to cities they politically determine is violence written, not true, yet they are making these kinds of cuts. The inconsistency is awesome. I have a question for general enyart. This regime is politicizing our military by sending the national guard to various cities.
▶ 2:35:47Senator Hirono: I'm deeply concerned about the impact of domestic military deployments. Everyone has other limits training opportunities. What impact would you expect on the national guard readiness as thousands of troops are deployed around the country for domestic policing?
▶ 2:36:12Maj. Gen. Enyart: Thank you, senator. As you point out, every day that a guardsman is deployed in the streets of los angeles or chicago is a day that is not spent doing the training that they need to do. If national guardsmen is walking around D.C. where they are picking up trash.
▶ 2:36:43Maj. Gen. Enyart: Those are not military tasks, those are not the tasks they need to be trained for to defend our nation and it has an adverse impact on readiness as well as an adverse impact on morale which will affect recruiting and protection.
▶ 2:36:59Sen. Hirono: The national guard has a mission and it is not to go into cities where they are not requested to do so to do policing and that would have a negative impact I would think on their morale.
▶ 2:37:13Maj. Gen. Enyart: That's correct and let's look at the families. The families are losing their loved one to go off somewhere and stand around taking selfies at the washington monument. That is also an adverse impact on employers which will directly impact recruiting in the future.
▶ 2:37:33Sen. Hirono: I'm running out of time, but I did want to ask Mr. jackson, I came in just as you are getting yelled at by one of my colleagues. This regime has cut a large amount of grants that I think would go to our safer communities. Based on your experience with evidence-based community violence prevention, what do you expect the effects of the cuts to be?
▶ 2:38:04Mr. Jackson: It will be difficult to prevent violence before it happens. It is a direct result of violence prevention efforts and also holding those accountable who are bringing guns into our communities. Mental health resources lost a billion dollars.
▶ 2:38:29Mr. Jackson: This administration has cut tremendous dollars on both ends, law enforcement and investing in prevention.
▶ 2:38:35Sen. Hirono: I think there is a direct correlation between violent crime in our communities and very strict gun laws and hawaii has one of the lowest violent crime rates because we have very strong gun laws that protect our community. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:38:51Chair Grassley: Senator welch.
▶ 2:38:53Senator Welch: Thank you very much and I want to thank the witnesses. I actually don't have a lot of questions because I do have a concern that this issue is getting very politicized. You know, none of us want whatever amount of crime we have in our communities, we just don't want it. It is terrible. It is a concern that all of the people we represent have.
▶ 2:39:26Senator Welch: But the objection I have to the use of the guard is the manner in which it is being done does appear to be very political decision on the part of the administration about whether to deploy and when to deploy. Some of these issues my colleague from north carolina was mentioning, bail issues, the penalties, the things you are concerned about, those are national.
▶ 2:39:52Senator Welch: Every community has to make those decisions but those are fair and square debates to have. What is the right -- what is the right way to treat a person who is an offender? Mr. chairman, one of the things I notice is that we get into this political debate about this when in fact there are contradictions here.
▶ 2:40:17Senator Welch: The per capita murder rate in states run by republicans is 50% higher than in democratic states. I don't draw a conclusion that that means republican-led states are soft on crime. But the assertion is made constantly that democrat cities are soft on mind -- on crime. In vermont, we spend a lot even though we have fortunately a lower crime rate.
▶ 2:40:53Senator Welch: We spend more than was spent in iowa, south carolina, texas, utah, and alabama. The other thing that is troubling to me is our local law enforcement, like in vermont and I know in iowa, they have been a beneficiary of some of these federal grants that have made a real difference when I talk to some of our police chiefs.
▶ 2:41:18Senator Welch: They have made a real difference in our capacity to be responsive and get the best training possible in the department of justice cut 300 73 crime grants unilaterally. I'm pretty upset about that. My understanding, Mr. chairman, you get your phone calls returned from the white house. My understanding is you are able to intervene and help your folks in iowa. So god blessi hope that I get te reception when I call the white house.
▶ 2:41:49Senator Welch: I don't think this should be on a political basis. Let's get them spread out to the communities that need them. You were able to take care of your state but the rest of us don't have that. I acknowledge your position here but nothing should you -- be unique to iowa.
▶ 2:42:19Senator Welch: We have law enforcement. Another issue that we have in burlington, homelessness, drug abuse and public spaces are not safe for many folks. And it is a mental health issue.
▶ 2:42:40Senator Welch: And that has to betalking aboutl and that has to betalking about, talking about penalty systems are important but talking about mental health is important because a lot of folks have been kicked out on the street that don't have treatment facilities and those folks are out on the street and they fall into the criminal justice system. Their crime essentially was that they have severe untreated mental illness.
▶ 2:43:13Senator Welch: Frustration ultimately results them in the criminal justice system. When everyone acknowledged that this was a mental health not a criminal conduct issue. I feel sad about the politicization of the issue and sending the guard.
▶ 2:43:34Senator Welch: We have a wonderful national guard in vermont but they are trained for military missions and they serve with great distinction in iraq and afghanistan and we have that situation that rural states have that our enlistment rate, our volunteer rate is high because people want to defend the country. I just have a lament here Mr.
▶ 2:43:58Senator Welch: Chairman that this issue is something that we should be working on together because any crime in our communities is a threat to our communities. I want to thank the witnesses and apologize for taking the senator prerogative of a five minute speech instead of a question.
▶ 2:44:16Chair Grassley: You five people have been very patient and I thank you for coming here and sharing your stories. We all believe that all life is precious, but it seems like we've accepted for too long that violent crime is a part of life. It should not be the case. So I think you and I will call the second panel now.
▶ 2:45:31Chair Grassley: I think before the panel sits down. Before you take your seats, I think I will ask you to swear so I can save you and me sometime.
▶ 2:46:01Chair Grassley: Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? Thank you. Mr. goumenis has a three decade career in law enforcement, working with the norfolk virginia police department.
▶ 2:46:33Chair Grassley: He joined dea's miami division in 2004 and has remained there. The dea has had great success this year. Just between the four days of august 25 and 29th, Mr.
▶ 2:46:50Chair Grassley: Goumenis 's washington division reported 25 arrests, seizures of 41 firearms, $350,000 in money and assets. 370 kilograms of illicit drugs.
▶ 2:47:17Chair Grassley: Looking outside the district, dea's chicago field office seized fentanyl. 25 firearms from two chicago ands' residences in their storage unit earlier this week as part of operation take back america. Mr. marketos has been with the marshall service since 2022.
▶ 2:47:51Chair Grassley: Has done extensive work across the capital region on fugitive apprehensions and missing child recoveries. Since august, the fugitive task force has apprehended an alleged m13 member who harbored a 16-year-old girl that was reported missing, and three suspected gang members, one of
▶ 2:48:22Chair Grassley: Which was wanted for first-degree murder. Made over 1000 arrests, seized 150 illegal firearms in just 19 days.
▶ 2:48:43Chair Grassley: Looking at chicago last week, the marshall service recovered a child in the custody of two men who were in the country illegally. I'm sure that girl's parents are thankful to the marshals for bringing her home.
▶ 2:49:04Chair Grassley: In tennessee, operation memphis streets led to the arrest of 141 violent fugitives including 14 wanted for homicide, and clearing 106 arrest warrants. I appreciate both of your leadership to combat crime, and I'm looking forward to hearing your testimony.
▶ 2:49:40Chair Grassley: -- since you gave one report for the whole administration instead of two separate statements. So whoever wants to go for five minutes and then the next one will have one minute. Proceed.
▶ 2:50:00Mr. Marketos: Distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. As the united states launches investigations, I am honored to appear before you today and to represent an agency with a storied history of upholding the rule of law. I have had the pivotal opportunity and a pivotal role in operation making D.C. safe and beautiful.
▶ 2:50:29Mr. Marketos: I am responsible for managing the investigative functions of united states marshals service ensuring federal law enforcement is optimized to work together in our agency with the metropolitan police department. Tucked in the district of columbia has been a part of my life and my professional career. It was almost 22 years ago that I was promoted to become a criminal investigator and assigned to district court in the district of columbia.
▶ 2:50:55Mr. Marketos: During my time there, I was selected to serve on the capital area regional fugitive is as a team leader directing teams of federal, state and local law enforcement office is conducting fugitive apprehensions. I was honored to be dedicated as the acting united states marshal for the district of columbia. I worked extensively with federal and local law enforcement partners. Every day from coast to coast, U.S.
▶ 2:51:21Mr. Marketos: Marshal arrest hundreds of violent fugitives as we work side-by-side with the federal, state and local partners. It is a model of how federal resources and expertise complement state and local efforts to reduce the scourge of violent crime. This partnership is the core model we are using in operation making D.C. safe and beautiful.
▶ 2:51:45Mr. Marketos: The metropolitan police department identifies the areas of violent crime and using our additional federal resources, we act as a force multiplier to focus law enforcement on criminal activity. Federal officers are working seamlessly beside mpd to patrol, respond and identify the drivers of crime. The national guard provides administered of support in their presence -- and their presence frees up officers to focus on law enforcement. I am proud to report today that our effort is working.
▶ 2:52:16Mr. Marketos: Since the operation began on august 7, we have sharply reduced crime in the nation's capital. There has been a 39% drop in violent crime since we started this operation. Carjackings are down 75% and as of today, federal law enforcement has made 3004 hundred 96 arrests. Averaging 65 per day. These include charges of 13 homicides, 200 84 firearms in violation and 472 narcotics offenses.
▶ 2:52:47Mr. Marketos: Our teams have seized 302 firearms, every gun seized is he removed threat to the community. We have apprehended 25 gang members including high-risk targets and recovered 10 missing children, safeguarding the most vulnerable among us. These results are not just statistics, they resonate in crime ravaged communities. During this population, deputy marshals for nothing but appreciation from D.C.'s residence.
▶ 2:53:19Mr. Marketos: A community long in pain is now healing. The gratitude of residence highlights the operations real impact on daily lives. A major faction is the soft on crime's policies. These endanger residents by failing to hold criminals accountable. As law-enforcement veterans no, without accountability, offenders will reoffend. I urge congress to consider legislation that will help hold D.C. criminals accountable.
▶ 2:53:49Mr. Marketos: Policies like cashless bail, release most arrestees without monetary conditions creating a revolving door of violent offenders. This burdens officers including deputy marshals in recapturing the same individuals often for identical crimes and wastes resources, and dangerous communities and erodes police morale.
▶ 2:54:17Mr. Marketos: -- with seven prior convictions, the task force partnering with the U.S. that danger risk -- is held accountable. We deployed teams across the seven patrol districts, collaborating with local and federal partners to hit crime hotspots flagged by mpd intelligence. Our officers boost presence and visibility ensuring violent offenders face justice.
▶ 2:54:44Mr. Marketos: These gains stem from our unified command efficiency and our alignment with president trump's vision for a safe and beautiful capital. We are proud of the 22 agencies supporting this operation and I especially want to recognize major federal contributors as the dea, etf -- atf, and homeland security investigations. Among other partners who serve alongside the U.S. marshals service.
▶ 2:55:10Mr. Marketos: We thank president trump are deploying the national guard as a force multiplier for logistics and visibility. I also commend the metropolitan police department leadership and the mayor's office for embracing federal partners, maximizing the value of every officer on the street. This synergy proves collaboration transforms public safety. U.S.
▶ 2:55:31Mr. Marketos: Marshals service, -- has been tasked with this coordination of the overall federal response and under his leadership, we stand united with our partners to make washington, D.C. a proud capital again. Ensuring the capital is free of -- thank you for your support and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 2:55:56Chair Grassley: Mr. goumenis.
▶ 2:55:57Mr. Goumenis: Chairman grassley, members of this committee, thank you for holding this hearing today. Before I begin my remarks, I want to address the violence that has occurred over the past year. Political shootings have shaken our nation from the two assassination attempts of trunk to the shootings of minnesota state legislatures and the targeting of vice agents.
▶ 2:56:21Mr. Goumenis: We don't solve our differences with bullets in our country, we solve them by talking, but listening and coming together in hearings like this one to find solutions to keep our communities safe. I come before you with over 28 years of law enforcement experience.
▶ 2:56:45Mr. Goumenis: I have served in the atlanta division office, dea headquarters as well as -- throughout my career -- like violent crime and drug trafficking. It has been my life's work to tackle violent crime, drug trafficking and money laundering domestically and abroad. Washington, D.C. should be the safest city in america.
▶ 2:57:15Mr. Goumenis: In recent years it has become a place of fear. Two embassy staffers were murdered. An off-duty firefighter and washington, D.C. was gunned down. Unfortunately, these are not isolated incidents but signs of a capital city in crisis. This is not a city worthy of our nation's pride, nor is it the standard safety -- standard of safety that a cap trope -- that a capital should represent.
▶ 2:57:46Mr. Goumenis: Some will tell you crime was down. But tell that to the victims of violent crime or the families that have lost their child. If people don't feel safe, they aren't say. Those who live, work or visit D.C. weren't feeling safe so president trump took bold action. I would honored to be asked by the dea administrator to help execute the executive order.
▶ 2:58:13Mr. Goumenis: 80's -- 83 agencies hit the streets across seven patrol districts and the results are undeniable. Robbery is down almost 50%, carjackings have dropped 80% and violent crime has fallen nearly 40%. Since august, law enforcement made over 3500 arrests. We've seized 300 39 firearms in the district.
▶ 2:58:42Mr. Goumenis: Arrested 29 known gang members and recovered 10 missing children. These are real results. We've had success but success cannot and should not be undermined by the continuation of soft on kind -- soft on crime policies. In some cases, before we even finish processing them.
▶ 2:59:12Mr. Goumenis: This is a betrayal of law enforcement and a betrayal of our officers. Every time an offender is released, without consequence, it strengthens the criminal ecosystem and the cartels. These cartels flood our streets with fentanyl, methamphetamine I'm a profiting from addiction and death. These organizations play a part in crime that has plagued to D.C.
▶ 2:59:37Mr. Goumenis: And for the past several weeks on top of the work being done by the executive order, dea is made more than a dozen arrests in the district on individuals with ties to cartels. We seized over 125 kilograms of fentanyl, cocaine and marijuana and taken over 120 firearms off the street.
▶ 2:59:58Chair Grassley: Thank you Mr. goumenis. You've been in law enforcement. My first question of you. You've been in law enforcement for over 30 years. You've served local police departments. How have soft on crime policies impacted investigations you have worked on?
▶ 3:00:27Mr. Goumenis: Thank you for that question. Since a proximally 2020, law enforcement has begun to move away from proactive policing or what we call broken windows theory to more of a reactive way of policing. This amendment was sped up after several high-profile critical incidents involving police in summer of 2020.
▶ 3:00:49Mr. Goumenis: Lawmakers, prosecutors and police officials passed policies and procedures limiting what patrol officers could engage in proactive policing. Prosecutors began scrutinizing arrests as well as requests for indictments by different branches of law enforcement. It became a practice of releasing criminals immediately after arrest rather than keeping them incarcerated. Legislatures followed suit by passing cashless bail or pushing for people to be released on -- regardless of the crime committed.
▶ 3:01:20Mr. Goumenis: This practice has allowed for a revolving door of criminals in and out of the justice system. Incarcerations have been shortened, sentences have been reduced, criminals have become emboldened. Criminals no longer fear arrests, convictions or incarcerations and morale for officers has dropped. In D.C., the D.C. superior court releases criminals on a personal recognizance bond.
▶ 3:01:45Mr. Goumenis: Shortly after, most of the time they are released before my agency can finish processing them. August 24, 20 25, in the middle of the making D.C. surge, a defendant was arrested by metropolitan pd. In the person was arrested with possession of crack cocaine, possession of fentanyl and a stolen firearm.
▶ 3:02:11Mr. Goumenis: This individual had a very long criminal history with several armed robberies. One of my agents was notified of the arrest and operated in a support role and worked with the district of columbia and united states attorneys's office to obtain an arrest warrant and bring the case into federal court. Within one day, we obtained a warrant for the individual. We went over to D.C. superior court and served the warrant, the individual had already been released.
▶ 3:02:41Mr. Goumenis: With a criminal history such as multiple armed robberies.
▶ 3:02:44Chair Grassley: You satisfied my answer to that question and I want to go to Mr. marketos. The task force that you were a member of here in washington was tasked with making a failed D.C. crime lab fully accredited after losing that accreditation under district leadership.
▶ 3:03:09Chair Grassley: Thanks to an external audit, it was exposed that the district found the lab engaged in fraudulent behavior and misrepresentations, concealing mistakes and failed to address alleged misconduct by examiners. What progress is being made to bring the lab back into full accreditation?
▶ 3:03:30Mr. Marketos: Thank you for the question. Within the U.S. marshals service, we don't have any purview over the D.C. crime lab. I was aware that D.C.'s crime lab had lost certification. I would be happy to take back that question so that we can follow up.
▶ 3:03:52Chair Grassley: Please do that. Mr. goumenis critics of the trump administration claims immigration officers are arresting peaceful migrants without any criminal backgrounds. Can you explain how easy it is to access illegal entry?
▶ 3:04:15Mr. Goumenis: Thank you for that question. Dea's first priority is drug investigations. When our brothers and sisters in the department of justice request our assistance, dea will always support our federal brothers and sisters. Homeland has asked us to play a support role and we assist to homeland security in their title ix investigations.
▶ 3:04:44Mr. Goumenis: I am fortunate that I have homeland security special agents as well as officers of -- assigned to my federal taskforces. We assist, provide security, and any leads generated from those I would refer back to homeland security because our priority is drug investigations.
▶ 3:05:07Chair Grassley: Thank you.
▶ 3:05:16Ranking Member Durbin: I better hurry up. Thanks for being here. I'm going to ask you both the same question, apply it to your agencies. How many personnel have been assigned additional immigration enforcement work or reassigned entirely to immigration enforcement since the start of this year? Mr. marketos?
▶ 3:05:43Mr. Marketos: Thank you for that question. I have seen within the purview of my supervision over the agency, that we have utilized or leveraged our investigative resources towards assisting dhs partners with immigration enforcement efforts. I want to make it clear though, the number one priority --
▶ 3:06:05Ranking Member Durbin: Can you give me a number? 1000?
▶ 3:06:09Mr. Marketos: As far as agents of the U.S. marshals service, I believe it was in the low 200s.
▶ 3:06:15Ranking Member Durbin: Out of a total complement of what number?
▶ 3:06:26Mr. Marketos: Total number of employees, sitting at approximately 4000 operational employees.
▶ 3:06:32Ranking Member Durbin: So would you say 5% of your personnel have been reassigned to homeland security immigration?
▶ 3:06:43Mr. Marketos: I wouldn't necessarily say reassigned but supporting dhs efforts.
▶ 3:06:48Ranking Member Durbin: And let's go to dea, what is your number?
▶ 3:06:51Mr. Goumenis: I can just speak to the D.C. regional office, the one I was in charge of.
▶ 3:06:56Ranking Member Durbin: Total employees?
▶ 3:07:01Mr. Goumenis: I covered two states and the district. The D.C. nova area, approximately seven agents. Baltimore, approximately five to seven agents. In richmond, approximately two.
▶ 3:07:18Ranking Member Durbin: Give me a number. This is a simple question. How many employees and how many of those went to immigration?
▶ 3:07:29Mr. Goumenis: Approximately 20.
▶ 3:07:31Ranking Member Durbin: Out of how many total?
▶ 3:07:33Mr. Goumenis: I have approximately 150 special agents and a very robust task force officers program. So when my agents are asked to support because we are in a support role, my federal partners need that support and then my task force officers continued drug investigations until my agents return.
▶ 3:08:00Mr. Goumenis: Approximately 5% of the marshals services and 10% of your offices were devoted -- diverted to immigration work. I'm trying to get you to tell me some numbers so I'm going to stick with those. Has this had an impact on the question of drug prosecutions in this last year?
▶ 3:08:17Mr. Goumenis: No sir. I have a robust task force officers. Those officers maintain my investigations.
▶ 3:08:27Ranking Member Durbin: The number of people charged with breaking federal drug laws dropped to the lowest in decades this year after the trump administration ordered that enforcement agencies focus on deporting immigrants. A review of nearly 2 million federal court records found. So far this year about 10% fewer people have been prosecuted for drug violations compared to the same period in 2024. A drop of 1200 cases.
▶ 3:09:01Ranking Member Durbin: There is a natural concern that the so-called deportation is diverting resources that could be used stopping drug trafficking crimes. They go on to say the pullback -- was the type of conspiracy and money laundering cases that would pursue high-level traffickers. The number of people charged with money laundering dropped by 24% this year. We are paying a price for the mass deportation.
▶ 3:09:32Ranking Member Durbin: Despite the fact that 70% of the people who have been stopped by the office of homeland security and accused of drug crimes and immigration violations, 70% of them have no criminal record. Would you like to comment on that?
▶ 3:09:51Mr. Goumenis: I appreciate the question and I did read that article. We at the dea in washington, we don't have any say in charging and we don't always take our cases in federal court. A lot of times we will take them to state and local courts as well. If you have any questions about charging as well as -- I would refer you to my partners at the U.S. attorney's office.
▶ 3:10:19Ranking Member Durbin: If you listen to this hearing, I've could come back and say you are soft on crime, you aren't prosecuting as many cases of drug violations, you are not keeping up with that. >> I will stay on that topic for a moment, having been a federal prosecutor that worked very closely with federal agencies including the dea.
▶ 3:10:49Ranking Member Durbin: Life of a dea agent and law enforcement officer. I have some simple questions so the american people are not misled. In fact in many instances, especially within the dea ranks, many of our drug traffickers and others who came into the country that went on to coordinate with cartels and other foreign nations, many are here illegally, is that correct?
▶ 3:11:15Mr. Goumenis: Yes ma'am.
▶ 3:11:16Chair Moody: So with an administration that comes in and takes a look at the resources and decides to shirk responsibilities, if you were to encounter someone that was trafficking drugs. Within the united states, with this administration now say that person needs to be deported?
▶ 3:11:45Mr. Goumenis: It could go both ways. We could prosecute them first for the drug trafficking, depending on the level of narcotics they were in possession of, criminal history.
▶ 3:11:55Chair Moody: But in many instances, they could simply be deported back to their home countries so they couldn't sell drugs in our communities. Isn't it true that this administration has shifted resources in many respects, some of the international water operations have been amplified and assisted by the military now and in many instances, not just the dea but others are helping with those here illegally that
▶ 3:12:25Chair Moody: Are committing crimes such as in chicago right now where they have surged resources to go after those that have committed crimes.
▶ 3:12:36Mr. Goumenis: I don't want to speak to chicago because that is different.
▶ 3:12:41Chair Moody: Let me talk to you about washington. In washington, it made perfect sense for the federal agents to assist in going after those that were here illegally that had criminal histories. Correct?
▶ 3:12:56Mr. Goumenis: Yes.
▶ 3:12:57Sen. Moody: In your experience, those that are living here and have had to live in an environment in crime with no one taking that seriously were welcoming those efforts.
▶ 3:13:10Mr. Goumenis: Yes ma'am. I've been out numerous times with people on the streets on the task force and I can tell you from first hand, I've gotten more thank you's from being out on the street than anything else. I've also received numerous letters as well as verbal accolades from dea agents helping metropolitan pd.
▶ 3:13:32Mr. Goumenis: Several of these letters that officers would send have been very nicely written, thanking us and as I've said, we've always been a partner with metropolitan.
▶ 3:13:44Sen. Moody: I meant to start this way and I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that shifting resources when you have an administration that is coming and wanting to prioritize and get back to a mission of protecting communities, that is something that is done repeatedly as administrations change and priorities change and there could very well be a lot of crossover in those missions.
▶ 3:14:09Mr. Goumenis: Correct.
▶ 3:14:11Sen. Moody: I just want to make sure I'm staying on time so let me start by saying thank you to you both for embarking on lifelong careers of law enforcement service. I believe it takes a special selfless brave individual to say I'm going to put my life, my safety behind others and I want to dedicate my life to that, to protecting communities.
▶ 3:14:35Sen. Moody: I believe that is why this country is one of the greatest countries on earth because with people like you willing to sign up for these roles and enforce the law, when we the people have come up with the laws, so thank you. One of the things that I have been repeatedly upset with recently is the villain's recently is the villain' ization of law enforcement.
▶ 3:15:01Sen. Moody: As federal agencies work in chicago, trying to arrest people that had committed crimes and were here illegally, the governor of illinois said that those federal agents were waging war on his people and in fact the mayor of chicago said and I quote, law enforcement is a sickness. When all these people that have signed up for these jobs are trying to do is protect others. Here in D.C.
▶ 3:15:26Sen. Moody: You had an attorney general when there was a carjacking epidemic, trying to say, explain why he couldn't protect or do anything about it, said that you can't arrest your way out of this. Do you believe that you can protect a community by arresting violent criminals and those who seek to do others harm?
▶ 3:15:47Mr. Marketos: Thank you for that question. Absolutely, no question.
▶ 3:15:53Sen. Moody: Do you believe that the rhetoric that has been put forth by so many democratic leaders around this nation is having an effect on the morale and the job of those like law enforcement officials around the country?
▶ 3:16:15Mr. Marketos: The beauty of the U.S. marshals service is that we are a nonpolitical organization. We are career law enforcement officials that want to make a difference and safeguard our communities.
▶ 3:16:26Sen. Moody: Do you believe that they will press on and protect the american people despite all of these statements that I would say incite violence against law enforcement?
▶ 3:16:40Mr. Marketos: With the U.S. marshals service uniquely placed in government, with our primary responsibility being the protection of federal and judiciary, the marshall service stands side-by-side with state, federal and local law enforcement partners to make a difference and make an impact.
▶ 3:16:58Sen. Moody: Thank you. Senator whitehouse.
▶ 3:17:02Sen. Whitehouse: Mr. marketos, welcome. It is one of the jobs of the marshals service to provide protection to federal judges, is that correct?
▶ 3:17:11Mr. Marketos: Absolutely.
▶ 3:17:16Sen. Whitehouse: And it is a federal crime to threaten a judge, is it not?
▶ 3:17:23Mr. Marketos: I don't know the statute but it is a federal crime to threaten a federal judge.
▶ 3:17:29Sen. Whitehouse: It can also be in obstruction of justice crime, to threaten a federal judge with the effort to influence or impede the judge in the performance of their duties. Is that correct?
▶ 3:17:46Mr. Marketos: Not knowing intimately the statute, I could concur that any violation or threats against our federal judiciary should be investigated to the fullest extent possible.
▶ 3:17:56Sen. Whitehouse: That is a perfect segue. We have a threatening statute and we have an obstruction statute that focuses largely on the immediate issuer of the threat. The person who sent the threat but if you look behind those. We also have conspiracy statutes.
▶ 3:18:25Sen. Whitehouse: 371, 372, 373 to be more specific. It is also a federal crime to conspire to threaten a judge, is it not? Also a federal crime to conspire to obstruct justice, is that right?
▶ 3:18:42Mr. Marketos: I'm not intimately familiar with the statutes but I do know that the judicial security mission is without a doubt one of our core responsibilities in our democracy.
▶ 3:18:55Sen. Whitehouse: Is it a crime to conspire to threaten a judge?
▶ 3:18:59Mr. Marketos: If the investigative facts that are presented to the U.S. attorney's office dictate that individual or individuals have threatened a federal judge, then they will pursue charges.
▶ 3:19:12Sen. Whitehouse: If you don't know whether conspiracy to threaten a judge is a crime or not, you may also not know whether obstruction of justice is an act for the purposes of the racketeering statute. It is section -- a predicate for a racketeering prosecution?
▶ 3:19:40Mr. Marketos: I'm not intimately familiar with that statute you are referring to.
▶ 3:19:46Sen. Whitehouse: The reason I'm asking these questions, Mr. marketos, and I would like to put these three exhibits in the record, the first is march 31, april 11, and my questions to the director.
▶ 3:20:09Sen. Moody: Without objection.
▶ 3:20:10Sen. Whitehouse: All three of those efforts trying to get at whether the marshall service is investigating not just the threat by the person delivering the threat but whether there is potentially a conspiracy or an enterprise engaged in threatening judges. I can't get an answer to that. It would seem to me that would be a super easy question to answer.
▶ 3:20:40Sen. Whitehouse: Let me ask a different way. Setting aside prosecution entirely. Looking only at the protection responsibilities of the U.S. marshals service.
▶ 3:20:54Sen. Whitehouse: If the marshals are unaware of a conspiracy to threaten judges or an enterprise to obstruct justice, wouldn't that impede its ability to understand the threat environment and respond fully to the protection mission?
▶ 3:21:13Mr. Marketos: I am not part of the judicial security division although I spent many years in that division. My current portfolio is investigative operations, functions of the marshall service. However I can tell you that with our threat management center and our accountability that our director has implemented and maintained, that the judicial security mission will come first beyond anything else.
▶ 3:21:43Sen. Whitehouse: I hear everyone saying that but when you whether the -- when you narrow the question to whether the marshals should investigate conspiracies to threaten or a racketeering enterprise to obstruct, suddenly it is radio silence, suddenly it is crickets and I can't get an answer.
▶ 3:22:03Sen. Whitehouse: It is my view that your responsibilities to the federal bench include fully understanding that the root -- what the risk to judges is and you cannot turn a blind eye to the prospect of their begin conspiracies or enterprises or orchestrations of threats and still be doing your protection job fully and to the extent you are back in your territory doing investigations, it is in fact a crime to conspire to threaten a
▶ 3:22:36Sen. Whitehouse: Judge and it is in fact a crime to participate in an enterprise with the predicate act of obstruction of justice my question, my challenge to you at this point because I can't get a straight answer is have you forgone that responsibility for fear of where those investigations will lead?
▶ 3:23:00Sen. Whitehouse: My time is up so I will submit that to you as a question for the record and I hope I have better luck than I did with my previous requests on the same subject.
▶ 3:23:11Sen. Moody: Senator blumenthal.
▶ 3:23:16Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you senator moody and thank you both for being here. Mr. marketos, -- actually I think it is your joint testimony. Both you and Mr.
▶ 3:23:33Sen. Blumenthal: Goumenis make the point that local government failure to enforce accountability exacerbated the law enforcement crisis. And then you cite intentional reduction of the police force and low sentences for firearm offenses and violent crime.
▶ 3:24:06Sen. Blumenthal: I'm trying to find areas of agreement here because I think there should be -- I was a U.S. attorney in connecticut for four and a half years and I was attorney general of our state and when I was working on these kinds of enforcement issues, generally it was all bipartisan, and fact it was nonpartisan, it was not political.
▶ 3:24:35Sen. Blumenthal: So reduction of the police force, not a good idea. We should be bolstering local police forces. In numbers and in training. Sentences for firearms offenses should be robust and strong. I'm wondering how we justify cutting the department of justice programs that increase the number of police, the grant programs.
▶ 3:25:07Sen. Blumenthal: Do you have any opinions on that?
▶ 3:25:10Sen. Whitehouse: I'm not familiar with the grants in the department of justice, but what I can report to you on is the thousands of specialized police officers that we have in both the capital and district taskforces around the country and regional taskforces.
▶ 3:25:32Sen. Blumenthal: You deputize them. And you take them away from local policing.
▶ 3:25:43Mr. Marketos: We serve as a surge aspect. We bring federal resources coupled with the local expertise to make an impact on violent crime.
▶ 3:25:54Sen. Blumenthal: Do you increase the number of local police?
▶ 3:25:58Mr. Marketos: We did not have control over --
▶ 3:26:01Sen. Blumenthal: I'm talking about the grants in the department of justice that increase the number of police. He talked about the reduction of the number of police and I agree with you. We need to increase the number of police. This is not a trick question. And I respect your expertise in what the marshall service does but shouldn't we have more police, not fewer? Let me ask you another question. Sentences for firearm offenses.
▶ 3:26:31Sen. Blumenthal: To increase the severity of firearms sentences, don't we need more investigations, more aggressive use of atf, which is responsible for investigating firearms offenses? Let me ask you, Mr. goumenis, are you in favor of a dea/atf merger?
▶ 3:26:52Mr. Goumenis: Thank you. That is above my responsibilities but I will tell you this, I am fortunate that I have the atf in the bulk of my groups and any firearms investigation, we generate leads, we pass them, we also have atf and our special operations division which is 37 different agencies.
▶ 3:27:18Mr. Goumenis: Any leads generated we have done for our arrests and seizures, they run with, they continue and any type of --
▶ 3:27:26Sen. Blumenthal: Wouldn't you agree that they should be increased in the resources they have and as you know, they've been cut.
▶ 3:27:37Mr. Goumenis: I don't want to speak for the atf. The taskforces are doing very good work.
▶ 3:27:45Sen. Blumenthal: How about the dea? It has been cut in resources hasn't it?
▶ 3:27:53Mr. Goumenis: My division has not been cut and I've been fortunate to obtain additional task force officers as well as special agent positions. One of the things that --
▶ 3:28:08Sen. Blumenthal: I apologize for interrupting but I'm about to run out of time. Overall, dea and atf have been cut in their resources made available. Maybe not your your section in D.C., but overall, both dea and atf have been cut in resources available.
▶ 3:28:37Mr. Goumenis: I have not seen my budget cut. I would refer you back to the department of justice.
▶ 3:28:42Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you both.
▶ 3:28:43Sen. Moody: Thank you. Senator coons.
▶ 3:28:49Sen. Coons: Thank you both for your service and for all of the U.S. marshals in the dea that have done work nationally and my home community. I spent a decade in county government. I with the county executive for six years and responsible for the second largest law enforcement agency in our small state. My agency did policing for half a million people and we benefited from many federal taskforces.
▶ 3:29:13Sen. Coons: From working with atf, dea, with the marshals service to clear warrants that had been long unserved, to arrest dangerous felons who come to our state from the region, to investigate and bust gangs that were dealing in drugs. The enforcement, and I'm the cochair of the bipartisan law enforcement caucus with senator cornyn.
▶ 3:29:45Sen. Coons: Frankly, we recently did an event on judicial safety, where we heard from federal, state, and local judges who had been threatened. If I might follow up on what senator whitehouse was asking briefly from Mr. marketos. I assume he was referring to the very recent, alarming rise in the delivery of pizzas to the homes of federal judges and their families, using the name of the name of the murdered to sign new jersey federal judge district judge esther salas.
▶ 3:30:17Sen. Coons: I've heard from federal judges about their alarm about the so-called pizza-doxxing, and that it has happened not a few times but hundreds of times nationally. Is this something the marshall service is investigating, the potential for a conspiracy to deliver the pizzas all over the country to federal district and circuit court judges and their families at their homes?
▶ 3:30:42Mr. Marketos: Thank you for the question. The judicial mission will and always remain the focal point of the united states marshals service.
▶ 3:30:49Sen. Coons: Are you investigating the possibility of a conspiracy delivering in an organized way these pizzas to threaten our judicial officials?
▶ 3:31:00Mr. Marketos: I'm aware of this inappropriate activity and the marshall service is looking into it.
▶ 3:31:05Sen. Coons: Thank you. I would welcome more information about what exactly you are doing. In my hometown of willington, noosa -- new castle county saw a steady rise of violent crime in a number of years for a variety of reasons. Under the first two administrations, trump administration, biden administration, our matar to ask, and get more federal law enforcement resources in partnership with our city and county and state police, did a remarkable job.
▶ 3:31:37Sen. Coons: Part one crimes, murder, robbery, rape are down significantly compared to where they were just several years ago. It's been a real positive story of more policing resources delivering a safer community. What I'm concerned about bluntly is the way that this whole hearing was framed. Framing crime as a blue city issue. I think that disrespects the hard work of law enforcement, the impact on communities, the victims and their families that you're in for real solutions.
▶ 3:32:09Sen. Coons: When we have got some very positive concrete stories in both red cities and blue cities and red states and blue states about real progress in fighting crime and bringing it down. My concern is that this year the trump administration has taken concrete actions that have canceled hundreds of millions of dollars of the office of justice program grants, including some that were helping in my community, effective gun violence protection, policing and prosecution programs, victim
▶ 3:32:41Sen. Coons: Support services, literally defunding our local police, and diverting federal agents and prosecutors investigating violent crime, drugs and corruption in my home community to a mass deportation agenda, and that has rolled that commonsense sense gun safety regulations. Mr. goumenis, can you just answer, reuters is reporting that federal drug arrests and prosecutions are down this year compared to last year.
▶ 3:33:09Sen. Coons: In fact, prosecutions are the lowest level in decades, which some sources in the story attribute to the decline in the focus on these areas and refocusing on immigration. Have you seen a slowdown in arrests in your area of responsibility, and what is your explanation of the slowdown and prosecutions that may have resulted? Mr. goumenis thank you for the question. I believe that article was referencing just prosecutions. I am actually up this year.
▶ 3:33:40Sen. Coons: My division has seized more fentanyl this year than last year, so our arrests were up.
▶ 3:33:44Sen. Coons: I think that is good news. More broadly, we see the diversion of federal law enforcement sources from fighting complex crime to managing and responding to street crime. Since the start of the D.C. emergency, how much of your manpower in terms of age and ours has been diverted to street patrols and how does that relate to before the emergency?
▶ 3:34:08Sen. Coons: Is that something that all of your agents are doing and how do they account for the time that that takes out of the complex investigations that the dea is specifically talented at? >> you can briefly answer. Mr. goumenis thank you. I think that was about three questions.
▶ 3:34:26Sen. Coons: I am the last questioning senator, so perhaps you'll indulge me for a question or two.
▶ 3:34:34Mr. Goumenis: We have not changed our posture. Da will always answer the call. If it is a long-term investigation to support a police department, any state and local agency within my area of response ability. For example, we started the search on august 7 and I had my division pulled the numbers. About a month and a half give or take.
▶ 3:35:00Mr. Goumenis: We have still arrested 23 individuals, seized $51,000, 28 firearms. We just ran a nationwide search for the two cartels that are poisoning about 95% of our population with the synthetic poisonings that are destroying our communities. 300,000 people in three years.
▶ 3:35:25Mr. Goumenis: Justin D.C., eight arrests, 100 kilograms of fentanyl, cocaine, marijuana. $50,000 in cash. 21 a firearms. Just in the district, eight keys of cocaine. If we take that outside of the two states, 18 arrests. 1617 kilos of cocaine. Over 2000 counterfeit bills of fentanyl. 32 weapons.
▶ 3:35:53Mr. Goumenis: My agent believe in the mission, believe in what dea does. We are members of the community. We live in the community. Our kids go to the same school as anyone else in the community. We believe in the mission. We are not going to stop regardless of what it is. Even if they are told to do something else for a couple of hours, they will come back to fulfill their mission, because they believe in the mission of the dea. As a community member, it breaks my heart to see somebody like misses cook talking about the death of her son.
▶ 3:36:26Mr. Goumenis: The amount of people I speak to that lose their child to fentanyl trafficking breaks my heart. 300,000 souls that will not be at christmas or thanksgiving dinners over the last three years, because of that synthetic drug and the carnage that the cartels are pushing on to our communities. I know it is long-winded, but my men and women at the washington division are passionate.
▶ 3:36:53Mr. Goumenis: As senator moody would tell you, every dea agent is passionate about what we do, and we will save our communities.
▶ 3:36:58Sen. Coons: Special good minutes, thank you. Let me be clear come in my experience, I've seen how effective dea agents come to partner with state and local law enforcement, and where local law enforcement was going to street level patrolling and the arrests, elevate our ability to actually interdict, investigate, rest, and then refer for successful prosecution, complex drug rings.
▶ 3:37:25Sen. Coons: But I wouldn't, unless there was a dramatic increase in the number of dea agents, I wouldn't ask those agents to do what my patrol officers of the county police department were doing. I just want to make sure that we are not taking very specialized and talented dea agents off mission in order to do something that shows visibility but doesn't ultimately use your unique skills and talents. I have experience that passion among the dea in delaware.
▶ 3:37:57Sen. Coons: I would just conclude by saying I appreciate it. I just hope as someone who believes in community policing, in federal, state, local partnership, I hope we are making the best use of your resources and not cutting critical programs that have been shown to work to interdict and fight crime. Sen. moody thank you, senator coons. I want to thank the witnesses.
▶ 3:38:21Sen. Coons: I know appearing before the senate judiciary committee is not an easy thing, takes a lot of preparation and a lot of communication with your agencies. We appreciate you taking the time to be here. I will end as we all should have began, thank you for signing up for these jobs. Thank you for not just becoming officers but for volunteering to lead them. I know that is another task in and of itself. I want to thank the judiciary committee staff for coming up with and preparing for this hearing.
▶ 3:38:54Sen. Coons: I know that the question of function of our agencies right now is a really important one for us to discuss especially when we have areas, states and cities where you might have a mayor, governor, city council, none of which are supporting those basic functions that protect the community, when it is necessary to have people come in and step into the breach and take up that because of protecting vulnerable people and victims of crime. So thank you. This was a very important hearing.
▶ 3:39:25Sen. Coons: This will conclude our hearing. I also want to thank everyone in the audience were being so polite and respectful of the senators and the witnesses today. If the witnesses were asked any questions that you would like to answer, you may submit those after the hearing for the record. You can return those to the committee within two weeks of receiving the question or within two weeks of any questions that were asked of you today. With that, this hearing is adjourned.