▶ 0:11:30>> agencies are restricted to essential functions while appropriations have lapsed. Congress's failure to do our work in my view is inexcusable. We have to come together which means we have to talk to one another and it can be about who is winning, who is losing, because right now, those that are losing are the american people including the first americans across the country.
▶ 0:11:55Today, we are going to hear about how government shutdowns and agency reductions in force -- impact native communities. When federal employees after load, the people responsible for carrying out trust and treaty obligations are unable to do their jobs and this disrupts native communities access to essential federal resources and services. Tribes and native leaders are reaching out for help and they are being told, well, can't help you now. The government is not open.
▶ 0:12:25All the while, native parents who rely on snap are worrying about how to feed their families, head start renewal deadlines are approaching with no one to process them, maintenance and repairs at health care facilities are stalled, and tribal governments are dipping into their limited savings if they have not used them up already. We know how past government shutdowns have hurt native communities. During the 2018 partial government shutdown, the indian health service had no advance appropriations at the time.
▶ 0:12:55Forcing tribes and tribal organizations to cut services, exhaust on hand medical supplies, and even considered temporarily closing health care facilities. Funding for ihs is not a luxury. I think we all know it is a matter of life and death and that is why back with, we were able to introduce legislation to provide advanced funding -- advance appropriations for ihs and we knew that it would be a long haul but it was the right thing to do.
▶ 0:13:26And in the fy 23 appropriations bill, we finally secured advanced appropriations for most of the ihs accounts say so today, as health care facilities across the country continue operating with minimal disruption during the shutdown, I think we can see the real impact that that had created in 2025, we have also seen reductions in force across agencies affecting the administration of federal programs that native communities rely on.
▶ 0:13:57The loss of employees with deep institutional knowledge and long-standing relationships with native communities weakens the effectiveness of these crucial federal programs. On october 10th, additional notices were issued. We are going to hear today about the impacts at the cds I find which supports native cdf eyes in expanding economic opportunities in indian country.
▶ 0:14:21At the office of indian education and the impact aid office where cuts staff reductions -- home programs that fill gaps left by ihs when it comes to behavioral health. Not all of these offices have indian or tribe in their names.
▶ 0:14:45Each plays a critical role in native communities and all are part of caring at the federal government's trust and treaty responsibilities. I have consistently reminded agencies of the unique government to government relationship and that these obligations must be upheld even in times of challenge. So kind of a meeting under perhaps not the best circumstances right now. I do hope that today's hearing will be a productive one.
▶ 0:15:15We all want our government to work. We want our government to serve all the people of the united states including our native peoples varied as senators, is our responsibility to listen and understand the day-to-day impact that communities are facing during the shutdown and that is what we intend to do here today. I will now turn to the vice chair for his opening statement. >> thank you to our witnesses for being here.
▶ 0:15:41When the government shuts down on trust and treaty and legal obligations -- our legal obligations do not vanish but they are put at risk. Promises to provide health care, housing, education, and public safety among so many other critical services are all on the chopping block.
▶ 0:16:01Communities are scrambling to secure alternate or reserve funding just in case the federal funds fall through and several tribes have already declared states of emergency due to the funding and service shortfalls. It's not the first time. In 2010, we learned how devastating a government shutdown is for native communities. A few examples.
▶ 0:16:22General assistance payments for food, clothing, shelter, and utility means of data individuals and families were -- native individuals and families were suspended. Foster care and long-term care for children and elders is suspended. Funds for travel operations suspended. During that shutdown, the president of the national congress of american indians, jefferson keel, warned us that indian country cannot afford an america should not stand for another one. Here we are again.
▶ 0:16:52We are on day 29 of this government shutdown on track to being the longest on record and that is nothing to brag about. Especially because it is no ordinary shutdown. This time, it's also on track to being the most damaging to federal workers. Rifts are happening right now across the federal government that are choking off funds and services promised to native communities. As we speak to him at the office of indian education staff at the department of education are receiving their notices.
▶ 0:17:22Without these federal workers, native education programs required by law could grind to a halt. It doesn't have to be this way. Punishing federal workers with pink slips is a choice. It is a requirement under the antideficiency act. It is not something that automatically occurs at the end of the federal fiscal year. This is a choice. It has nothing to do with the fact that we are in a shutdown.
▶ 0:17:53This shutdown is robbing agencies of staff needed to carry out the trust obligations to american indians, native hawaiians, and alaska natives. Native community's can't put federal funding to work or fully exercise their self-determination if their fiduciary, the united states government, is out of the office. Let me be clear what we are talking about. Native programs are not d.e.I. Spending, not charity. They are the law.
▶ 0:18:18Attempting to cancel funds for native programs, more than 4200 federal employees and eliminating tribal consultation policies, that is not the united states government meeting its trust and legal obligations. It is this administration's attempt to resuscitate failed policies of termination.
▶ 0:18:44I look forward to this hearing and this discussion about how this is impacting indian country and native hawaiians. Thank you again for being willing to testify. >> thank you to our vice chair. We will turn to our witnesses. We have today the honorable vice chairwoman, sarah harris, who is the secretary for united south and eastern tribes. She will be followed by Mr.
▶ 0:19:13Ben malaak, the president of the alaska federation of natives. Mr. curry bread who is the board president for the national indian education association. Mr. pete upton who is the ceo of the native cdf I network and Mr. ac not, the ceo of the national indian health board.
▶ 0:19:39I want to thank you all for taking the time to be before the committee today. I want to single out my friend, ben malaak, who has had a very busy week up in alaska. Busy weeks. We had a major disaster in western alaska during this shutdown.
▶ 0:19:58I also want to recognize all of the fema personnel who have worked around-the-clock on recovery operations and again, all without pay. I'm grateful for their dedication and for all the federal employees who are coordinating with the tribes and tribal organizations. The state. My team has been in there as we are working to deliver services to those who have been displaced so know that we continue to keep our attention there.
▶ 0:20:27I want to remind the witnesses that we have your full written testimony. It will be made part of the official record. We would ask you to keep your oral testimony to no more than five minutes so we've got time for questions from members and I have shared with some of you, we anticipate having a vote here somewhere in the two commented a period so you will see movement back and forth or we are going to try to keep the hearing moving so let's turn first to vice chairwoman harris with your
▶ 0:20:58Testimony, please. >> members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony. I am vice chairwoman of the mohegan tribe. I'm here today in my capacity as cyclic -- secretary of the sovereignty protection fund. This hearing is timely as indian country is facing the impacts of what is on track to be the longest government shut down in history.
▶ 0:21:23While we have experienced lengthy shutdowns in the past including the 20 18th through 2019 shutdown, we must also contend with the people that the current administration's policies are bringing to the functioning and composition of the federal government, many of which appear to be implemented without regard to programs, services, funding, and contracts that tribal nations and our people are owed. These changes including reductions in force are exacerbating the negative impacts of the shutdown for indian nations, citizens, and communities.
▶ 0:21:52It's critically important to underscore that allowing shutdowns caused by partisan disagreement to impact the delivery of trust and treaty obligations is unacceptable. Although we celebrate the certainty that advance appropriations have brought to ihs at this time, tribal nations access funding and services throughout the federal government. The vast majority of which remains unprotected. Our tribal nations are working to ensure that citizens have continued access to food as nutrition programs like snap are running out of funds.
▶ 0:22:24For example, the board president kirk francis was unable to testify today because he's currently working with his tribal council to reallocate over 200,000 dollars in other funding to bridge the gap in nutrition and funding for november alone. This includes asking tribal hunters to donate so that elders can be said.
▶ 0:22:47As the temperature continues to drop this fall, at least 12 of our member nations are without low income heating assistance through the department of health and human services. The cdc is extremely delayed in sharing disease prevalence data with our tribal epidemiology center as the south carolina -- as south carolina faces a measles outbreak in winter flu season. Some tribal nations are being forced to consider taking out lines of credit to continue providing services to their citizens and communities.
▶ 0:23:16Congress and the administration must work together to ensure the shutdown is listed as soon as possible. The longer the shutdown continues, the greater the likelihood of compounding impacts to essential services in indian country. Those that are the responsibility of the federal government. We urge the administration to work with indian country to ensure its policies do not affect the delivery of trust and treaty obligations.
▶ 0:23:41Beginning on january 20 as we do with every administration, tribal nations have approach to the white house, the office of numerous federal agencies and departments seeking partnership and to educate them on to a unique legal and moral obligations the united states holds to indian nations. Tribal nations citizens and communities.
▶ 0:24:02We have explained why these obligations supersede the administration's priorities related to the scope and size of the federal government and this includes request for exemption from the administration's rates for tribal serving positions both through the department of government efficiency and now through omb. Despite this advocacy, many tribal serving positions have been eliminated over the course of this year.
▶ 0:24:24Tribal organizations have come together in response to the early actions of the administration including spf and our sister organizations here today. Currently, a total of 37 member organizations, the coalition of tribal sovereignty is a nonpartisan collaboration of local, regional, national tribal organizations working together to safeguard tribal sovereignty and uphold the united states delivery of trust and treaty obligations.
▶ 0:24:53Since february, the coalition has sent over 50 letters to the executive branch. Broadly, these communications offer the following messages. Indian country is being unintentionally swept into the administration's broad implementations of its policy priorities. Because of trust and treaty obligations, travel programs are not like other federal programs and must be treated differently. Tribal nations in the trump administration have important overlapping goals and we must focus energies on pursuing those goals together.
▶ 0:25:21At present, our focus is being drawn to protecting indian country from collateral harm caused by imprecise implementation of the trump administration's priorities. It's critical that all branches of the federal government recognized that ihs, bia, and pie are not the sole agencies charged with delivering trust and treaty obligations. Tribal nations access funding and services throughout the federal government for which we have prepared with our lands, resources, and the lives of our ancestors.
▶ 0:25:52It is simply not enough to only protect these agencies from the impacts of policy changes and position eliminations. All personnel, programs, and agencies must be exempt from these actions. Turning our attention back to this committee in congress more broadly, the shutdown and this year's federal upheaval should inspire you to think differently about how trust and treaty obligations are funded and carried out.
▶ 0:26:15In the short term, a federal indian funding must be protected from shutdowns and continuing resolutions to advance appropriations. This would ensure the federal government continues to meet its obligations regardless of politics and provide some certainty to our people, patients, and employees each year. Full and mandatory funding would better exemplify the obligations of the united states to tribal nations.
▶ 0:26:40In closing, we urge this congress to bring the destabilizing effects of its own inaction to an end to for indian country. We thank the committee for the opportunity to testify and look forward to partnering as you seek to advance and improve the delivery of trust and treaty obligations. Thank you. >> next, we turn to Mr. malaak. Welcome. >> thank you. Members of committee, thank you for having this hearing today.
▶ 0:27:08It is critical and timely for our troubled communities. President of asn. Alaska's largest statewide organization, membership includes organized tribes, 154 corporations -- regional nonprofits. 160,000 alaska natives.
▶ 0:27:29As I went through working on the testimony for today, I reached out to member organizations and I am lucky to hear that most of our tribal organizations and communities prepared for the shutdown but as we approached 30 days of shutdown, many did not prepare for that long of a shutdown. As we mentioned, day 29, a prolonged shutdown in alaska become threatening from any of our communities.
▶ 0:27:56They are very capacity strained to the reporting and or to also work on additional permits and grants. This is critical for alaska as many of our -- it's one hour at times have to get orders in for doing critical supplies for communities. While many of our times and organizations plan for a shutdown, we cannot always plan for the weather. In october 12, we had a very serious typhoon here in alaska.
▶ 0:28:27It was like no other typhoon in our history in over -- over thousands of alaskan natives were evacuated to anchorage. I want to thank alaska and our dedication to your team for the -- for responding to this storm. It's critical that we have these employees and it's also critical that they get paid for their work and wanting to save our communities and I want to thank many federal employees who are working right now in response to the storm who are not getting paid right now.
▶ 0:28:57I recognize that during this storm, advanced ihs allowed organizations to respond immediately to the storm. I want to highlight as members of this panel -- how important ihs is for our communities. As we go into shutdowns, food security is critical for us right now.
▶ 0:29:25As snape is about to end on friday, we are looking at the ability for our communities to decide between heating and fuel. For example, right now, in alaska, milk is $12.99. A four pack of bathroom tissue, single ply, is a daughter -- eight dollars. Corn hash the is $30 99 cents.
▶ 0:29:56Without snape, it's critical for communities to decide between feeding and fuel. Right now, I looked at the weather -- is three degrees. Minus nine. Tournament -- 21 to a balmy 35 degrees. Right now in november, is going to get colder. Without snap, our communities will have to decide between fuel and food.
▶ 0:30:2765% of the revenue comes from snap. About $2000 a week comes from snap. In these communities -- it's often the most stable jobs in the community. It's is critical for this to happen. It's critical for communities. Especially for elders. They are going to decide between heat and fuel. Elders might not have family to help them with food security.
▶ 0:30:57Also during this time with the government shutdowns, the federal subsistence board which is unable to meet right now. During the pandemic, they were able to allow communities and tribes to open up and get food security during the pandemic. During the shutdown, they cannot meet. Also delays for communities to meet and have no local voice in food security at this time.
▶ 0:31:24This impacts our progress as alaska is a very large state with difficult travel to reschedule -- it could put these meetings back months. Down to 15 seconds. I'm going to close right now but right now, the impact is still uncertain.
▶ 0:31:53We don't know what would happen until it reopens. When it happens, we don't know. Right now, the burden of many of our local communities -- we don't know the impact until the government reopens and we are worried that as the government reopens, there might be delays in getting funds necessary to our communities in a timely manner. We urge the community to be innovative, look at how we reopen government, and support our travel communities.
▶ 0:32:25Thank you. >> Mr. byrd, welcome. >> thank you, senator. Good afternoon. I am the president of the national indian education association. I am a citizen of the system of south dakota and a descendant of the tribe of north carolina.
▶ 0:32:50On behalf of the nia, the students, educators, and tribal nations we serve, I'm here to share the distressing situation facing our native youth from a situation which intensifies each day the shutdown continues. Across the country, the shutdown and reductions in force have crept into our classrooms. Our early childhood programs and our homes. What began as a budget dispute in washington has become a daily crisis in indian country.
▶ 0:33:19When our ancestors signed treaties with the united states, they did so in exchange for certain guarantees. One of these was that our children and our children's children would be educated. This obligation is not a discretionary choice. It's the payment on a debt owed. These promises are wet every native parent holds onto when they send their child to school each morning. It's what keeps a principal in new mexico and a head start worker in south dakota showing up even when the federal government is not.
▶ 0:33:50At the department of education, the office of impact aid which provides one point $6 billion annually to federally impacted school districts has come to a standstill with the staff furloughed for over a month and no forward funding, essential payments have not arrived. In south dakota, montana, new mexico, school districts are burning through reserves just to meet payroll. For some schools, these dollars makeup 50% of the budgets which keep them open.
▶ 0:34:20The situation is just as severe at the administration for children and families. Beginning on november 1, 12 american alaskan head start grantees, serving over 2500 children will face an immediate funding shortfall. The cherokee nation in oklahoma has already prepared to step in to keep their centers open. Smaller tracts across the country may not have the reserves. They are being forced to decide between keeping the early childhood lessons open or feeding their communities as snape and nutrition programs also face funding gaps.
▶ 0:34:50This is not a choice tribal nation should ever have to make. These impacts share the fragility of the system, programs designed to uphold the federal government's moral and legal promises are now being held hostage. Thankfully, while other agencies have gone dark, offices and schools have stayed open not because the system is immune to the shutdown but because the government understands that federal employees are unique and must be protected.
▶ 0:35:17The administration has designated all staff as accepted or exempted. Teachers are still in classrooms. Bus drivers are still on routes. Dormitory staff are still -- students far from home and that is how it should be. And how it would always be if the entire system were to receive advanced appropriations. Meanwhile, native students outside of schools are at unique risk.
▶ 0:35:41More than 90% of native children attend public schools, many in reservation adjusted districts which depend on federal programs such as title vi, impact aid, johnson and malley. It's not forward funded. During the shutdown, committees are frozen and that means tutoring stops after school support is canceled while communities wait for washington to act.
▶ 0:36:07For many native families, it is one of the only visible signs at the federal government remembers its educational promised to their children. The indian programs advanced appropriations act would fix this by ensuring all accounts, not just school operations, are fully insulated from shutdowns. This committee's leadership combined with the support of appropriators has already shown how this approach works by protecting ihs and this committee is critical to making that happen for the rest of our programs.
▶ 0:36:36We urge this committee to educate your peers and protect tribal serving offices and accounts from any further future tense to play politics with the federal government's solemn obligations. At the department of education, the office of elementary and secondary education has been hollowed out. According to court filings earlier this month, more than 130 positions have been eliminated on top of staff reduction. Of the 282 employees who staffed the office just a year ago, fewer than 100 remain.
▶ 0:37:0529 days ago, the entire office of indian education was furloughed. As of 15 minutes ago, we have official confirmation that seven of nine staff in the same office have been terminated and that means no one to process grants, proved budgets, or support tribal education departments in indian parent committees. If these terminations are allowed to go into full effect, indian education programs as we know them it would be functionally eliminated.
▶ 0:37:33The office which supports 537 indian land school districts alongside millions of military connected students has been almost entirely laid off. The united states trust obligations cannot be fulfilled at the federal staff responsible for carrying out -- no longer exists. If these workforce reductions continue and if shutdowns are allowed to repeatedly disrupt the flow of education funding, that united states will be in direct violation of its trust and treaty obligations.
▶ 0:38:02Education is a promise to our people as part of the guarantees this nation made. It cannot be withheld because of political stalemates or administrative restructuring. Today, I ask you to keep that promise. I asked congress to reopen the government. I ask you to work with the administration to resend the risks and make sure that -- rescind the risks.
▶ 0:38:28Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter and for your continued commitment to upholding the promises made to tribal nations and native students. Thank you. >> thank you. Mr. upton, welcome. >> thank you, chair. And the committee for this opportunity to share today. My name is pete upton.
▶ 0:38:48I'm an enrolled member of the tribe of nebraska and I served as the ceo for the native cdf ia network, the only national membership organization dedicated to supporting native community development financial institutions and I serve as the executive of native 360 loan fund, a certified -- native certified -- serving native people in nebraska. Kansas and iowa.
▶ 0:39:12On behalf of ncn and the nearly 100 certified and emerging -- we serve, express our great concern regarding the reduction in force action on october 10 to terminate all fund staff and abolish the fund altogether. These actions will economically devastated tribal communities. According to a recent federal reserve study, 46% of tribal communities are located in banking deserts.
▶ 0:39:41They are typically the only financial institution serving these communities, providing access to capital, credit, and financial education or -- where no alternative exists. Abolishing the fund will cause severe, immediate, and long-term harm to the ability to serve the growing small business, homeownership, agriculture, consumer lending needs of tribal communities. The needs long ignored by mainstream banking institutions.
▶ 0:40:12We are already experiencing the impacts. The fy 25 appropriated funds for the native american cd fia assistance program remain frozen with no treasury staff at work to finalize these agreements or release the awards, choking off critical seed capital for the native cd fi's.
▶ 0:40:38Dozens awaiting treasury certification, recertification remain in limbo with no one to process their applications. The looming abolishment of the fund also spell a demise for new market tax credits, program a key financing tool that cultivate private investments in vital economic and community development projects on tribal lands.
▶ 0:41:00Without the fund, staff to administer it, the latest round of the tax cuts want to be allocated to the native community development entities or other cde's serving indian country. Also in danger is congress's push to expand and make permanent that successful usda 502 real lending program which will enhance the proven ability to foster home ownership among native people by issuing them mortgage loans on tribal lands.
▶ 0:41:31Last and perhaps most troubling, abolishing the fund will end the federal process of certifying cdfi's. The official stamp of approval native cdfi's use secure investment from nonfederal sources. This will dramatically reduce the flow of capital for farm, ranch, and other business development, housing, homeownership, community infrastructure projects when indian country's need for such capital increases substantially with each passing year.
▶ 0:42:01The fund's own words, native cdfi's are helping transform the communities, creating businesses and jobs and places that desperately need them. They are providing personal financial education and business training to persons who have been excluded from our nation's economic mainstream. They are hoping to change the lives of the people they serve.
▶ 0:42:26The united states fulfills its trust and treaty obligations to tribal nations in part by providing funding to native organizations like cdfi's that serve tribal nations and their citizens. The cdfi's fund and program are not handouts. They are a practical fulfillment of the trust and treaty obligations, insuring native people have the same access to financial economic opportunities as all other americans.
▶ 0:42:53We thank and commend no one hundred five gop members of congress who sent a letter to the administration last week in support of cdfi's in the fund, a resounding testament to the fact that cdfi's are not a partisan issue. They deserve the continued support of the federal government so they can continue their vital work which can only happen if the administrations action and its plan to abolish the fund are abolished. We stand ready to partner with you to achieve this goal.
▶ 0:43:24Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. upton. We will finally hear from him. Welcome. Close members of the committee, on behalf of the 570 four federally recognized tribal nations we serve, thank you for this opportunity to testify. I am a member of the tribe of north carolina and serve as the chief executive officer for the national indian health board. The only traveling that organization dedicated to advancing the health of all tribal nations.
▶ 0:43:54For more than 50 years, we have worked to ensure the united states meets its trust and treaty obligations to tribal nations. Obligations that do not stop during government shutdowns. While ihs plays a central role, the duty to provide for the health and well-being of american indians and alaska natives extends across all of hhs.
▶ 0:44:16According to omb's 20 24 native american funding cross cut from hhs administers over $12 billion in native related funding yet hhs still lacks comprehensive departmentwide cross on how these dollars and others reach tribal communities. Without it, is difficult to show how the shutdown disrupt services. Every day, the system including federal, tribal, and urban programs relies on federal appropriations to pay staff, keep clinics open, and provide life-saving care.
▶ 0:44:46When that funding stops even briefly, the impact is immediate and severe. Before advance appropriations, ihs was the only federal health care agency without funding during shutdowns. Clinics reduced clinical services, providers went unpaid, and tried to rely on emergency funds, even facing credit downgrades. In one tribal community, the inability to sustain operations led to the loss of 10 committee members lives.
▶ 0:45:14Thanks to congressional action and his committee's leadership, ihs continues full operations during the shutdown. No closures, no furloughs, no missed payments. When severe storms struck western alaska earlier this month, the health corporation responded immediately because it was funded. That is what stability looks like in action. The gaps remain. Roughly 1.3 billion dollars across six ihs accounts are covered -- are not covered by advanced appropriations.
▶ 0:45:44For now, ihs is covering those costs while ensuring commissioned corps officers in tribal facilities continue to receive pay. That stopgap is unsustainable. Similarly, the special diabetes program for indians is also affected as the nation's most effective initiative for combating diabetes in indian country, it is responsible for it and 84% drop in uncontrolled diabetes related hospitalizations and estimates show it saved ihs between 174
▶ 0:46:16And $520 million in health care costs. It has had only minimal increases in recent years and lacks funding. The shutdown puts the program in jeopardy, forcing ihs to rely on balances to keep it running. It strongly supports the permanent reauthorization -- no less than $20 million annually with automatic funding increases.
▶ 0:46:41Programs prove that predictable and advanced funding improves program outcomes, extends lives, and upholds the federal trust responsibility. Advanced appropriations works. Every tribal health program must be protected so tribes never face a lapse in care. Workforce reductions are eroding capacity of -- across hhs. We are grateful that secretary kennedy is protecting staff from the deepest cuts.
▶ 0:47:07Still, ihs and other health program staff are not fully exempt from hiring freezes and workforce impacts. The voluntary early retirement authority saw ihs news over 1000 employees through retirement attrition. Since then, over 500 physicians -- it faces the lowest offer acceptance rate in its history and a 30% overall vacancy rate.
▶ 0:47:3243% of ihs facilities are so thinly staffed, they are losing -- losing one physician could force closure. These losses translate into preventable deaths in tribal communities. Across the rest of hhs, hiring freezes have further reduced workforce tribes rely on for critical technical assistance.
▶ 0:47:52At the administration for community living, regional administrators who serve as direct points of contact for tribes were eliminated earlier this year, leaving tribal programs on their own. Shutdowns are not just for school events. They directly weaken the government's capacity to meet its trust and treaty obligations.
▶ 0:48:12As native communities confront the nation's most severe health disparities, we need to strengthen, not weaken, the federal health infrastructure that underpins tribal self-determination and the well-being of our people. We must extend protections to all ihs accounts, rebuild the workforce, permanently reauthorize sd pi and improve coordination across hhs through a true crosscut of funding. Our sovereignty does not shut down. The federal trust responsibility cannot be reduced in force.
▶ 0:48:41Thank you and I welcome any questions you have. >> thank you very much and thanks to all of the tested fires. Center. >> thank you all for being here. Let me start with you. November 1 funds for the supplemental nutrition assistance program will run out. The loss of snap funding means 200 families or 50% to 60% of their tribe would lose access to essential food support.
▶ 0:49:14In response, the tribe is preparing to rely on traditional practices such as hunting elk to feed their members. It's important to highlight how serious of an issue this will become. This saturday, tribes across the country will lose access to essential food services. Can you specify what actions or emergency measures is the indian health board planning to address the health impacts of the loss of snap report for tribal communities? >> absolutely.
▶ 0:49:44We are working with our partners across indian country including the coalition for tribal sovereignty to ensure that we are providing resources for tribes to understand what the options are during this time. They are tribes who are, as we mentioned earlier, who already issued state of emergencies who are going to really access their own funding but alternately, tribes are going to have to tap into their funding to provide for their resources for their people. That is funding that may run out that they have on reserve.
▶ 0:50:11>> can I ask you, when you're talking -- let's talk specifically Dr. valley. If they were to reach out to you, what would you tell them where they could go for assistance? >> I would probably coordinate. We work with our partners who work with snap. We don't directly work with snap at the national indian health board but we do support those who do.
▶ 0:50:34We ultimately will help any issues that come out of it related to health in any way that we can. >> is that something you normally do or are you putting additional staff dedicated to addressing this during this period? My that's a wonderful question.
▶ 0:50:54Due to funding restraints and also that most of the national organizations and nonprofits rely heavily on federal funding to help support a lot of their programs which are also being restricted at this time. >> outside of the government shutdown, that restriction has occurred. Limitations of funding, staff. Plus they have consistently occurred.
▶ 0:51:17We are looking at other partners, philanthropy to help you through that -- bolster that but we are putting our own resources and reserves to make sure that we are supporting indian country in this moment the best that we can. >> thank you. I appreciate that. Mr. upton. In indian country, where access to homeownership is already limited, the community development financial institutions have been a critical resource in helping our tribal families access financing, especially after natural disasters.
▶ 0:51:46Can you talk a little bit about what the proposed elimination of the cdf I find -- how do you see this impacting the ability of tribal communities to make long-term housing decisions and recover from natural disasters? >> there we go. Sorry about that. Thank you for that question.
▶ 0:52:11The elimination of the fund would be detrimental to all the hard work, especially getting the usda green and then -- relenting program, the momentum for that because that program proved to support two native cdfi's in 2019, did more home loans in one year than the usda did in 10 years.
▶ 0:52:37The fact of the matter is, native cdfi's were in our communities and we are there working every day in our communities to get homeowners into a home and the elimination of these funds, the way that we capital stack anymore and the way that we bring deals together, it's native communities helping native communities and we have had the biggest struggle in getting low interest long-term capital.
▶ 0:53:06Finally, with the relenting programs finally in sight, it's a $50 million -- potentially $50 million annual allotment for housing and it would put us back 10 to 15 years with all the hard work our native cdfi's have done.
▶ 0:53:25If the fund is eliminated, our work would stop and we are going to have to find another avenue but the fund itself, it's a stamp for investors to say that you are a investable. So we bring in private capital at a rate of 8-1. To answer your question, it would be devastating for our tribal communities.
▶ 0:53:48Right now, native cdfi's are playing a big part of it in bringing other partners in on a daily basis to supply housing for our tribal communities. >> thank you. Thank you. >> senator smith. >> thank you so much, vice chair, and thanks to all of you for being here today.
▶ 0:54:10This is such a useful opportunity for us to hear about what is happening in real life impacts as we struggle through this administration, this shut down. I am really glad to see Mr. upton here. You have been such a great friend and advocate. Helped my office in many ways as we have done all of the work on cdfi's and native cdfi's.
▶ 0:54:36I want to follow up on the senator's questions because I'm trying to get at what our kind of the actual on the ground impacts of the way in which kind of the mass firing of the fund staff at treasury, what impact that is really having. In your testimony, you write about how known of the three largest home lenders in the U.S. issue federally guaranteed mortgages for the construction of new permanent homes on tribal lands. So like zero.
▶ 0:55:07I mean, this is where cdfi's have played such an integral role because you know your communities. I want to pause on that for a minute and see if there's any additional information you think would be useful for the committee to understand when we think about that, you know, kind of financial desert on tribal lands when it comes to home mortgages.
▶ 0:55:29>> the greatest challenge that we have is being able to bring in -- I spoke with cdfi's up in alaska yesterday and it is an ecosystem that we have and it is bringing in all the federal programs to support the capital needs to home mortgages and whether it be new market tax credits, they usda, there's a number of leveraging tools that we use to fulfill our long-term
▶ 0:56:00Capital needs but I think more than anything, the shutdown currently, what it's doing when he think about this, the fund itself, there's about $6 billion of funding that they roll out annually and I just ran the numbers through a couple colleagues. There's about 81 employees currently at the fund.
▶ 0:56:21They administered the policy and review the applications, the award process, the compliance, that monitoring, the data analysis, the reporting, the cross agency coordination but more than anything, they oversee the certification.
▶ 0:56:37So there's so much that those staff members do that is not happening right now and without the 2025 awards that should be rolled out as we speak here, there is no one to process those words and more than anything, it's causing -- I would not say a lot of fear but it's that golden stamp that philanthropy sees that you are a a certified native cdfi's native cdfi' and you are investable so maybe there might be some going back a little bit.
▶ 0:57:08It will slow the process down if we don't get the staff reversed and get them a back door. Cracks get the rift people back on the ground. Right, exactly. There is so much to talk about here. I appreciate you very much being here. I want to turn to miss harris. Thank you so much for being here.
▶ 0:57:32Although I was not here for opening statements, I understand that you spoke about how the president of -- is not able to be here because they are busy trying to figure out how to cover the gaps, the huge gaps that are being left in the nutrition program because of this looming refusal by the president to spend money that he is authorized to spend to pay for snap programs.
▶ 0:57:59Tribal lands have this kind of, you know, you have nutrition assistance which is extremely important and you also have -- I am hearing from minnesota tribes that that is switching happening right now as folks -- as people are trying to figure out where is the best place to be able to get stable sources of nutrition assistance for folks on tribal lands and people are in the
▶ 0:58:31Midst of trying to figure out how to change their benefits. All of this on top of these massive cuts to snap that happened in the one big beautiful bill, so called. I would love to just hear you comment on this and say a bit more about what you are hearing from members of the community that you represent. >> certainly. I think one of the things that has been incredibly challenging for tribes during shutdown is just the complete lack of transparency as well.
▶ 0:58:56No one knows what to do or what is going on and they can also get in touch with any of their agency partners at this point in time so everyone is just sort of flying in the dark and trying to dupe the best that they can at this moment in time but I think it's also important to recognize that tribal nations, we already face long-standing and continuing challenges with providing access to healthy and nutritious food for our citizens and the challenges contribute to health and educational and overall wellness disparities
▶ 0:59:26Across all of our tribal communities. The current situation with snap and with only further exacerbates the situation and we must further subsidize to provide for the failure of our federal partners to meet their trust and treaty obligations.
▶ 0:59:42I mean, tribal nations are having -- my own tribal nation is having to monetarily subsidize for, you know, for snap benefits that some of our citizens are not providing and given the emergent nature of all of this crisis, tribes are scrambling so they are spending their own time and resources to provide the most basic of human needs, food for the citizens.
▶ 1:00:05>> I know I am out of time so I am so sorry to cut you off but I want to be -- I want to respect the chair and vice chair but I really want to put a point on what you said about how the federal government has trust -- a trust and treaty responsibility to provide nutrition assistance, housing, other fundamental basics as part of the treaties that we signed. This is not a -- it is a shall. That is the difference here. Thank you.
▶ 1:00:38>> thank you, senator smith. Thank you all for your testimony that you have shared. You know, I think particularly as we are going into the winter in alaska and I know that in many parts of indian country, it is very real up in minnesota, maybe not so much in hawaii or nevada, but the concerns about
▶ 1:01:10Food versus fuel that you have referenced, I think that they are very real. We talk about food insecurity and we have heard and seen the pictures of the loss from the typhoon and you see devastation within the village but the part of it that is really heartrending is when you see
▶ 1:01:42Freezers that had been stopped with subsistence foods, the berries, all that had been gathered that would take these families through the winter but now is lost because there is no power in these villages so their food source for the winter is gone and their reliance on snap as you have pointed out in so many of these communities.
▶ 1:02:06So this is a point that for many in alaska is tangibly real and tangibly frightening. So everything that we can do to make sure that snap and with funding is able to proceed I think has got to be a priority for us.
▶ 1:02:27I appreciate the comment that you made, vice chairman harris, in recognizing that it is not just ihs, pie, bia that our tribal programs we need to focus on that this is where the trust and treaty responsibility is.
▶ 1:02:50It is through so many tribal serving programs and that is what we are talking about here across so many of these accounts and how our native people are impacted. I think it is somewhat timely.
▶ 1:03:12Apparently, there is an analysis that has been released by the brookings institute about how -- structural flaws and how the federal government finances its obligations to native nations, native american people, and actually suggesting that this might -- the impact of the shutdown and the real-world consequences on what it means for food, for fuel, for access
▶ 1:03:44To financing, for health care, for education, that may be this is that moment for reforms. Rather than reverting to business as usual, kind of reevaluate how the federal government is meeting its funding obligations to our tribes in -- and native citizens. I wanted to ask you, Mr.
▶ 1:04:07Byrd, because your comment about the impact of the rifts on office of indian education, you said that seven of nine have been terminated as of today. Is that correct? >> yes. That is correct. >> seven of nine are terminated.
▶ 1:04:38We have the office -- we have the director of the office in place, right? >> correct. >> and this is an office that administers millions of dollars in formula and discretionary grants. I'm told that last month, 28 grants were awarded from the office for alaska native education.
▶ 1:05:00So effectively, you have got nobody at home to award these grants, administer these grants. Is that a fair summation of where we are right now? >> yes. That's pretty fair.
▶ 1:05:16They basically have no contact with in the office to handle their drawdowns for their funds to relay technical assistance to help with their data collection that they need to process with their school districts so really, they have basically no help in the D.C.
▶ 1:05:33Office with the office of indian education and it is so important for the students to get the academic support, tutoring, assistance for the indian parent committees, so the lack of resources in D.C. in the office of indian education is lacking so that really leaves the community is really struggling in their school districts to understand what is happening.
▶ 1:05:56>> you also touched on tribal head start and I'm hearing from grantees in my state that are concerned about the impact, effective november 1 in terms of these grantees, but also not being able to access technical assistance, there is a stop work order that was received.
▶ 1:06:28What does that -- what impact will that have on our tribal head starts if there's nobody there to help with technical assistance?
▶ 1:06:41>> subcommittees obviously have to prepare for the next round or a request for funding so they don't really have the information in place to provide for their auditing purposes as far as getting ready to submit the next level of funding sources so they need the assistance up front before they even apply for their next round of funding. >> Mr. opt-in, I want to turn to you about the certifications by treasury.
▶ 1:07:11You basically said there's no treasury staff to process these certifications so if you can't process them, ok. Tell me what happens.
▶ 1:07:26Tell me what happens in terms of the inability of treasury to move forward with any certifications when you were talking about access to capital markets.
▶ 1:07:45>> without certification, it really gives -- certification gives investors, philanthropy partners, federal agencies confident that the funds they deploy to us, whether it be through a form of a grant -- it's that golden stamp that we are going to deploy that money with integrity, accountability, and measurable impact. >> you are saying it is a stamp of approval so if you don't have the stamp, does that mean that you are less likely to be able to access that loan?
▶ 1:08:18>> you are going to be less likely to have philanthropy. Philanthropy, native led organizations are less than 2% of total philanthropy. And with the native cdfi's especially, it is so important that we have that certification because without it, I fear that philanthropy is not going to be as giving and as open. There is no guarantee.
▶ 1:08:50It is the golden stamp that you are what you say you are and the fund has certified that all of your accountability, you are doing what you said you are going to do with c1 that's probably the most important to bringing on private capital to the work we do, it builds the trust, interesting relationship with our funders.
▶ 1:09:18There are many programs you are required to have the certification to apply and there are a lot of investments whether it be investment from a bank and they will require some sort of certification. That's my fear, those types of investments will disappear and disappear quickly.
▶ 1:09:42Sen. Schatz: Thank you for being here. We've seen tribes for low some of their own staff and take loans out. Can you drill down for me on some of the scenarios certain tribes are going through with the lack of funding? Tell us what is happening.
▶ 1:10:03Ms. Harris: We are hearing from different member tribes and one of the things we've heard that tribes are looking at is securing lines of credit because right now there are grants they anticipated would be coming but there's no information about whether they will be coming or not and we are taking out lines of credit and incurring interest payments on those lines of credit and that pulls tribal funding away from things that be
▶ 1:10:34Ms. Harris: Going into programs and at the end of the day there's no guarantee those will come through. My own tribe is having to supplement snap assistance and also our daycare facility is due to have a grant, we just recently open that and now we have to supplement that on our own.
▶ 1:10:56Ms. Harris: I know many of our tribal members are setting up food banks, to try to work with state and local governments to supplement that. In my opening remarks, I mentioned that. Trying to supplement with hunting and traditional foods. I think overall the biggest thing is there's no transparency, no end in sight, and no information.
▶ 1:11:26Ms. Harris: Tribal governments are resilient and resourceful and problem solvers but it's difficult to know what you are solving for, if it's short-term or long-term. I think everyone right now is dealing with what's in front of them and trying to find measures to provide for tribal citizens until there is more clarity and at this point starting to anticipate this may be a lot longer and that will require more thinking and measures on how to deal with that.
▶ 1:11:56Sen. Schatz: You might not be able to answer this question because I'm not sure any of us quite no but it seems to me there are at least two things going on. There is the expiration of the appropriations bill, that has pretty direct impacts on tribes, what also riffs not really required under the antideficiency act. Can you figure out what is causing what?
▶ 1:12:23Ms. Harris: The rifts are causing us to not even know in some cases. We don't know if the person is furloughed, we don't know if the person has been permanently let go.
▶ 1:12:37Ms. Harris: Historically speaking I can say I will -- I worked during the obama administration as chief of staff of indian affairs, and we had about 8000 employees during the 2013 shutdown, and currently there are about 6000 employees as identified in contingency planning. Even at that point we were struggling to meet the need.
▶ 1:13:02Ms. Harris: The fact is that rifts violate the trust and treaty obligations and no one is arguing that indian affairs are overstaffed and overfunded and no one argues that federal agencies don't have the same trust and treaty obligations. It's the opposite.
▶ 1:13:22Ms. Harris: Congress says again and again on a bipartisan basis, they want to ameliorate the inequality, but this is taking a hatchet to the progress we've made and the delivery of trust obligations and taking the authority of congress away to provide for the trust and treaty obligations.
▶ 1:13:45Ms. Harris: I think in essence it's a lack of affirming -- of information about what's going on, who is still at the department, if this is a temporary shutdown thing or a permanent rift situation, and I think it is leaving members confused and without the ability to properly confront the problem in front of us.
▶ 1:14:06Sen. Schatz: We have some policy disagreements related to the shutdown and indian country, but I think it's fair if this administration is going to execute a rolling series of rifts.
▶ 1:14:28Sen. Schatz: Because of my relationship with the chair, I'm trying to avoid a partisan vibe but it's at least fair to figure out what is related to the shutdown and what is not because I'm quite worried we could end up on the other side of this shutdown and short-term resolution while we work on the rest of the process and the we find out two thirds of the problem was just a lack of human beings to push out
▶ 1:14:59Sen. Schatz: Grants and communicate with tribes and tribal leaders and programs that serve native people across the country. I think we as a committee need to sort out to the extent it is possible, what is what. I understand in the politics of it all, it is part of aps, it's a .1 party is trying to make to the other and it is partisan where fair could -- warfare.
▶ 1:15:27Sen. Schatz: But you need to know if this is over next month, are your problems over or are you still suffering through 30% of it, 90% of it, 2% of it? The fact we don't know and you don't know is a problem. We need to at least ground ourselves in the same set of facts.
▶ 1:15:46Chair Murkowski: Thank you for sharing that I would agree. I think we need that kind of information. I don't remember how early it was in this session but we had a hearing in indian affairs to look at the impact of the reductions in force, with the layoffs, the impact of the layoffs.
▶ 1:16:17Chair Murkowski: Having on so many of these tribal serving programs could we had the secretary of hhs say clearly, I will hold ihs in this and we saw that. It's important for the administration to see it's not just ihs, it's in so many of these other programs where tribal citizens are being served.
▶ 1:16:46Chair Murkowski: Understanding the implications of all of this is part of where we are today. I want to ask some quick follow on's. Mr. mallot, I was asked earlier about light heat.
▶ 1:17:14Chair Murkowski: I was asked do I have any idea how long the funds are going to be available. I am told there was supposed to be a new round of funding to go out to the states and tribes of the first of november and that apparently is not going to happen. Some tribes may have leftover funds. Are you hearing about this back home?
▶ 1:17:40Mr. Mallot: Thank you for the question. And thank you for sponsoring the senate bill to keep snap going. Regarding light heat, you are right the funding might not happen.
▶ 1:18:02Mr. Mallot: Right now they start elders first, I think they are hoping the government will open on time but when november hits they won't have any funds to give out assistance especially elders first in line, they're going to
▶ 1:18:34Mr. Mallot: Have to decide between medication, food and heat for their homes. As I got comments from the communities these communities don't have local food banks, it's up to the tribe and light heat is a big part of that. There's no guarantee when they will get the funding. As we hit november.
▶ 1:19:00Mr. Mallot: That said, the rifts and furloughs, if the government opens next week, how long will it take them to get the money out?
▶ 1:19:14Chair Murkowski: There is so much uncertainty at play here. We can't figure out the path forward right now on our spending bills although I am more optimistic on that today.
▶ 1:19:33Chair Murkowski: It just seems there's more and more concerns coming up, whether it is the general funds, the smaller tribes, we don't have very much left in our available funds, the potential some tribal will have to be laid off.
▶ 1:20:05Chair Murkowski: Support cost payments are not coming in. All of this is at play. It's so challenging and worrisome. There's no good reason for shutdown ever. We are in the mist of the second-longest and I have no desire in wanting to beat the goal of the longest government shutdown.
▶ 1:20:35Chair Murkowski: My hope is not only will we get the government open quickly, we will get a move on with our appropriations bills that need to be resolved now but also going forward with a more certain process and given the comments with the vice chair what I said earlier about may be looking at this as a moment for
▶ 1:21:07Chair Murkowski: Critical review about how we, the federal government, meet the trust responsibilities and obligations to our tribes, to american indians, alaskan natives in native hawaiians, this might be the kick in the fannie we need to look more critically at that.
▶ 1:21:37Chair Murkowski: Ladies and gentle men, thank you for making the effort to be here today, thank you for your testimony. For those who would ask follow-up questions for the record, we will hold it open for a couple weeks. Again, thank you for being part of our very important hearing today and allowing these issues to come forward.
▶ 1:22:07Chair Murkowski: With that, the committee stands adjourned.