▶ 0:18:25Chair Cruz: Good morning. The senate committee on commerce, science, and transportation come to order. Today we will consider the nominations of jared isaacman to serve as administrator of the national aeronautics and space administration, which I have to say for a moment feels a bit like groundhog day, and also steven haines to serve as an assistant secretary of commerce. Nasa is at the forefront of american leadership in science and technology.
▶ 0:18:55Chair Cruz: It is critical to our national security amid what I have called the second space race. But the agency finds itself at an inflection point. Its next leader must be both disciplined and purposeful. Candidly assessing what is working and what is not while recognizing that each policy decision has trade-offs. Nasa cannot do everything at once.
▶ 0:19:22Chair Cruz: The agency must prioritize if we are to beat china back to the moon and then to mars. If confirmed, Mr. isaacman will be taking the helm just as nasa is set to launch artemis ii. The agency's first crewed use of the space market and the first crewed mission on the orion spacecraft which will bring american astronauts closer to the lunar service then at any point since 1972. I know Mr.
▶ 0:19:50Chair Cruz: Isaacman will be a strong leader who sees that artemis ii launches safely, successfully, and without delay. He must then turn to artemis three, landing americans are the moon -- on the moon before china, which is aimed at sending its own thereby 2030. Nasa cannot take its eyes off the ball.
▶ 0:20:17Chair Cruz: Fortunately, congress has given clear direction and substantial funding to achieve this goal. The one big beautiful bill, president trump and the congress committed $10 billion to specific parts of the space program, including the space launch system and future lunar missions of artemis four and five. The gateway space station and the international space station.
▶ 0:20:44Chair Cruz: The vision for nasa enshrined in the one big beautiful bill is unambiguous, and congress expects it will be executed faithfully. And I will note that our friend and colleague senator britt from alabama has joined us. Alabama has intense interest in nasa and we welcome you to the committee this morning. Investments in hardware alone will not guarantee mission success.
▶ 0:21:13Chair Cruz: Equally indispensable is nasa's workforce. Houston's johnson space center is home to one of the most capable, experienced, and mission driven workforces in the world. Jsc is home to our astronaut corps, america's spacefaring heroes who represent the best of our nation. Preserving that talent is essential, and I trust that jsc will continue to thrive under Mr. isaacman's leadership. Mr.
▶ 0:21:41Chair Cruz: Isaacman I believe will prioritize stability, accountability, and respect for the men and women who make the agency's missions possible. As the commander of inspiration for the first off civilian spaceflight and the first private citizen to walk in space, he knows that every successful mission depends on the skills and the dedication of its crew as well as the countless professionals supporting them from the ground. Mr.
▶ 0:22:10Chair Cruz: Isaacman, I know that you are as committed to american& supremacy in the final frontier as is this committee and the entire senate. The united states must remain the unquestioned leader in space exploration. And this imperative is why we need to confirm your nomination as expeditiously as possible. My hope is you will be confirmed and in this role before the end of this year.
▶ 0:22:40Chair Cruz: Finally, a word about our nominee to lead industry and analysis within the international trade administration at the department of commerce. If confirmed, steven haines will also help us compete with china. He will support U.S. companies with actionable market intelligence, help them navigate trade barriers, and identify opportunities for expansion in the foreign markets.
▶ 0:23:05Chair Cruz: He brings experienced as a former service officer and from across multiple federal agencies. Both of our nominees before us will advance american interests whether in outer space or here at home. I now turn to ranking member cantwell for her opening remarks.
▶ 0:23:22Sen. Cantwell: Thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you for this hearing. Congratulations Mr. isaacman on being renominated to lead nasa, and Mr. haines on your nomination to be assistant secretary of commerce. I too would like to welcome our colleague senator britt, from a state that has a robust aerospace community and look forward to working with her. A special welcome to two washingtonians who are here, bill magness science guy and Mr. haines's father-in-law.
▶ 0:23:55Sen. Cantwell: Great to have you here in support of him. Mr. isaacman, I supported your nomination the first time you came before the committee, and I hope to do so again. As the chairman manchin, I hope to get you in this position before the end of the year, but there is no secret that a lot of nasa changes were made before the last time you were before this committee, including the lunar lander, the release of nasa's federal budget, which is cutting the budget by nearly a quarter in the workforce and
▶ 0:24:26Sen. Cantwell: Nearly a third of the science funding cut in half. Given all that, I am glad you are here to answer questions about nasa's future, and I hope that today's hearing will show there is bipartisan agreement, strong bipartisan agreement that we must redouble our efforts to get american astronauts back to the surface of the moon as soon as possible.
▶ 0:24:46Sen. Cantwell: At our committee hearing in november, we heard concerning testimony from several expert witnesses who left little room for doubt that the current space exit lunar lander would not be able to put astronauts on the moon in 2027 or 2028. This would almost certainly lose the race to china. I know you will have robust competition.
▶ 0:25:11Sen. Cantwell: In response, the acting administrator duffy reopened the contract for the lunar lender that can be sooner by the end of 2028 and I think this was the right decision. And I expect you to continue executing on this plan if confirmed. To be clear, winning the race to the moon is not just about short-term token victories. It is the first step in accomplishing a very long term presence on the lunar service, which is strategic economically and in a national security imperative. Mr.
▶ 0:25:39Sen. Cantwell: Isaacman, I expect to hear from you today about how you will ensure we achieve these goals. Nasa is also much more than just a moon expiration program. The agency leads in a number of other vital strategic missions, including aeronautical research, space technology, and of course agency's critical science mission. Nasa is one of the world's leading research and development organizations. I think that is why we have 50 people outside waiting to get in this hearing.
▶ 0:26:09Sen. Cantwell: I think they believe you will get confirmed, and they want to be first in line to talk about these developments. Nasa is one of the leading research and development organizations, an agency that leads multiple sectors of innovation including ai, quantum, advanced aerospace materials, and manufacturing and aviation safety.
▶ 0:26:27Sen. Cantwell: You and I have had a chance to talk about this issue as it relates to in my home state 1500 countries from a robust aerospace supply chain, including 40 artemis program suppliers and this issue of working on next-generation thermoplastics that is so critical to all space and aerospace manufacturing to get a high rate piece manufacturing production.
▶ 0:26:56Sen. Cantwell: Nevertheless as we discuss those issues, the omb director has been working to gut nasa's budget especially in science. Earlier this year, multiple nasa whistleblowers righted evidence showing that omb was pushing nasa to implement the dangerous cuts requested in the president's budget from fiscal year 2026, disregarding the law and the impact this would leave on nasa. This is just unacceptable. Mr. isaacman, if confirmed, I expect he will push back on these dangerous ideas and advocate for nasa's budget.
▶ 0:27:28Sen. Cantwell: Oh. I also invite you to visit washington state. We would love to continue this discussion on how to generate the next aviation innovation. It is clear there is a lot going on that will help us on the moon and mars. This is not just for the artemis suppliers but a lot of other issues and how to guarantee our satellite communication for the future and how to make sure that is secure. So thank you again for your willingness to step up to these challenges.
▶ 0:27:58Sen. Cantwell: Turning to you, Mr. haines, if confirmed, you will be responsible for strengthening the globe's competitiveness in the industry and overseeing key trade analysis. You would lead a team charged with value-added analysis and tools to support economic policy decisions. No doubt there has been a big change since covid about supply chain issues and supply chain vulnerabilities in the interests that commerce play a larger role in identifying those risk factors.
▶ 0:28:29Sen. Cantwell: Myself and senator risch have been leading a charge on fusion technology, hoping we can be very aggressive on supply chain issues if in fact fusion technology gets to the actual point of manufacturing in the united states. So I look forward to working with you on the supply chain issues. And I want us to continue to know that we have to reduce tariffs.
▶ 0:28:57Sen. Cantwell: In my mind, tariffs are causing americans to be challenged unaffordability issues, and either forward to working with you and asking questions about that as well welcome to our colleague from tennessee, senator hagerty.
▶ 0:29:11Chair Cruz: Thank you. I will now turn to our colleague from the great state of tennessee, senator hagerty, to introduce Mr. haines. Welcome to the committee.
▶ 0:29:20Sen. Hagerty: Thank you for holding this hearing. Mr. isaacman, I want to congratulate you on your nomination and look forward to your induction. A good staffer, a friend, and fellow tennessean, Mr. haines is nominated, but before I get his introduction, I would like to address his staff along the walls here today.
▶ 0:29:50Sen. Hagerty: I hope you take a lesson from steven haines. He did a remarkable job serving on my team. Great member of my national security team and frankly touched many aspects of our office. He has taken that knowledge and moved it into the administering of branch, and he is going to go on to do great things, and I just think it is a testament to the fact that the hard work all of you put it on both sides of the aisle to support our nation and generate the type of opportunities we want to see for our children and grandchildren can manifest itself in a career
▶ 0:30:20Sen. Hagerty: Like steven's. And I hope you will continue to advance your careers. One of the greatest honors I have to be your speaker on behalf of my former staffers. Thank you for all of your hard work you do every day, and I hope to see you somebody sitting in a seat just like steven. Steven was one of my national security advisers two years.
▶ 0:30:43Sen. Hagerty: His counsel was critical, covering nearly every issue that came to my office supporting my role as banking member of the banking national security subcommittee to state department reauthorization and issues on the senate foreign relations committee to the important work of funding the government in the appropriations process. Was not much that steven did not touch in my office. For his time in the senate, steven served as a foreign affairs officer.
▶ 0:31:15Sen. Hagerty: Steven is a graduate of the university of nevada and holds a masters from george washington university elliott school of international affairs. Stephen's understanding of how federal agencies operate and his deep knowledge of foreign policy and national security were evident from the first day he joined my team. His expertise served the constituents of tennessee remarkably well. His love for this country and serving the american people is palpable.
▶ 0:31:39Sen. Hagerty: He is a man of conviction, loyalty, and integrity, precisely the caliber of person we need serving. I thank you for considering his nomination, and I encourage my colleagues to support his nomination as he advances. Congratulations, steven. Thank you.
▶ 0:31:58Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator hagerty. We will now turn to our colleague senator sheehy to introduce Mr. isaacman. The floor is yours.
▶ 0:32:09Sen. Sheehy: Thank you, chairman. I would say this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Thanks for bringing the girls. Before I introduce jared, I would like to enter in 40 letters of support for Mr. isaacman's nomination, please.
▶ 0:32:28Chair Cruz: Without objection.
▶ 0:32:29Sen. Sheehy: For nearly 70 years, the united states has been at the forefront of space explanation. President trump knows how critical it is for our country to lead the way yet again as ours was program that our space program aims to lead the charge. I have personally known jared for several years, sharing and aviation community in montana and collaborated with him on the next generation of explorers, astronauts, engineers, nasa administrators at space camp in huntsville, alabama.
▶ 0:33:00Sen. Sheehy: We both attended space camp and I would say it's part in both of us the dream of aviation -- it sparked in both of us the dream of aviation. We both dreamed of being astronauts as children. America has been a leader of space travel for generations, testing the limits of human endurance and intellect.
▶ 0:33:25Sen. Sheehy: All americans should be deeply proud of the accompaniment of heroes like -- the sacrifice of these brave astronauts is what americans know about what they don't know is behind each and every one of these explorers is a massive team of dedicated engineers, program managers, innovators, welders, electricians, truck drivers, and families why the true heroes of our space program.
▶ 0:33:49Sen. Sheehy: To lead this incredible team requires a leader that not only understands and believes in the mission but has the interdisciplinary skill set to coordinate these teams to achieve critical outcomes. Since the tragedy of the columbia disaster in 2003, nasa has been an organization of great people searching for revival. After the cancellation of the program for 10 years, the united states was paying russia taxi fare to send our own astronauts into space. This would make john f.
▶ 0:34:16Sen. Sheehy: Kennedy, ronald reagan, and dozens of other american leaders turned in their grave. In light of the recent starliner mission that left astronauts stuck in space for almost nine months, we are reminded that much work remains. President trump new it was time for a change and he chose the right man for the job. Despite your desire to be an air force fighter pilot as a child, he found out he was smarter than most and constructed a software company in his garage as a teenager.
▶ 0:34:44Sen. Sheehy: That company grew to be a success that fueled his ascension in the hall of fame as a record-setting jet pilot, aggressive pilot for air force fighter pilots, and the first ever to conduct a . On top of all of that, jared and I sure another passion, philanthropy. Yet again underlining his commitment to this great nation. Nasa is a point of great pride for our nation.
▶ 0:35:11Sen. Sheehy: It has carved out new frontiers for mankind and has shown the power of freedom. China is progressing at a breakneck pace to overtake our space infrastructure and beat us back to the moon and fully intend to win. We do not focus now, we will find ourselves under the glow of a red moon. We have a up edition to lead on the greatest frontier ever known.
▶ 0:35:36Sen. Sheehy: Jared is an articulate leader, a great father, husband, and one of the smartest people in america. He understands how to manage a complex multibillion-dollar organization and how to design and engineer critical systems. On oto top it off, he knows how to fight spaceships. Nasa needs of juvenile and that will take fresh leadership. Gerrit is the perfect man for the job and I look forward to adding nasa administrator to his already remarkable resume.
▶ 0:36:02Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator sheehy. I will now recognize Mr. isaacman for his opening statement.
▶ 0:36:10Mr. Isaacman: Thank you, chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell, senator sheehy for that very generous introduction, and established members of the committee. I am grateful to be before you again as president trump's nominee to lead nasa. Again, I would like to acknowledge my family. My family, my parents behind me, my wife monica, my two wonderful daughters.
▶ 0:36:39Mr. Isaacman: Over the years, I found many ways to challenge their patients. Politics is certainly no exception. We are also joined today by seven astronauts, some of my closest friends and crewmates, together with nasa astronauts here in support. Thank you very much. I also want to acknowledge and appreciate that senator britt from the state of alabama is here today, so not only home to marshall space flight center but also space camp, where my journey began.
▶ 0:37:08Mr. Isaacman: As mentioned before, I have lived the american dream. I have been fortunate to have an amazing business in aeronautics career, led two notable missions to space, to help charitable causes that matter deeply to my family. And I am beyond thing for for the chance to repay my debt to the station by serving alongside the brilliant mind at the world's most accomplished space agency. The last time I set before you, I introduce myself, my qualifications, and the challenges and opportunities ahead.
▶ 0:37:37Mr. Isaacman: This time I am here with a message of urgency. After more than a half-century, america set to launch astronauts around the moon in months. This is a challenging endeavor to say the least and one that requires full-time should. Secretary duffy in his letter endorsing my nomination emphasized this point.
▶ 0:37:56Mr. Isaacman: The message is shared by more than four dozen other letters of support, including online petitions started by the members of the nasa workforce and a letter from 36 nasa astronauts who like me have sat through nominee investigations and reviews and have accepted the risks of going to space and understand what is at stake. I know it is not lost on anyone in this room we are in a great competition with a rifle that has the will and beans to challenge american exceptionalism across multiple domains, including the high ground of space.
▶ 0:38:25Mr. Isaacman: This is not the time for delay but a time for action because if we fall behind, if we make a mistake, we may never catch up. And the consequences could shift the balance of power here on earth. This congress and specifically this committee understand the urgency of the moment, placing a historic investment in human space exploration that president trump signed in the one big beautiful bill. It is now time for nasa and its partners to deliver.
▶ 0:38:49Mr. Isaacman: To that end, I want to sure I am I here for personal gain, to enrich contractors, or disrupt things essential to america's objective in space. If confirmed, I am here to bring urgency and extreme focus to the mission, to do all I can working with the best and brightest that nasa, to lead humanity's efforts to unlock the secrets of the universe and ensure american leadership across the last great frontier.
▶ 0:39:17Mr. Isaacman: In concert with that grand endeavor, we will ensure the following. The success of the artemis program that president trump began during his first term, america will return to the moon before our great rival, and we will establish an enduring presence to understand and realize the scientific, economic, and national security value of the lunar surface.
▶ 0:39:38Mr. Isaacman: Along the way, we will pioneer the next giant leap in capabilities to extend america's reach further into space, including accelerating investments into propulsion and surface power programs. These efforts in addition to industry partners building reusable launch vehicles will set the stage for future missions to mars and beyond. We will never accept a gap in capabilities again, not with our space station present or our ability to send astronauts to the moon.
▶ 0:40:10Mr. Isaacman: The future we all want to see in space someday and not rely exclusively on the taxpayer. We will begin making investments now for the inevitable spacefaring future just on the horizon. We will make the most efficient use of every dollar allocated, pushing for more rollovers, telescopes, exciting missions with the aim of enlightening the world through scientific discoveries knowing that if nasa does not do it, no one else will.
▶ 0:40:37Mr. Isaacman: Some of the most talented people in america show up to work at nasa alongside a reinvigorated culture and an intense focus on achieving the near impossible with no other organization -- that no other organization is capable of or daring to accomplish. What we get the job done, it will be because of the professionals at nasa, our international and commercial partners, this congress, and president trump administration that we will have succeeded in ushering in a new age of science and discovery.
▶ 0:41:05Mr. Isaacman: We will do it for america, for humankind, and we will inspire the world and generations to follow to take us further. We are just getting started on the greatest adventure in human history and with urgency and purpose and extreme focus on the mission, nasa would lead the way. Thank you.
▶ 0:41:19Chair Cruz: Thank you, Mr. isaacman. I now recognize Mr. haines for his opening statement.
▶ 0:41:24Mr. Haines: Thank you, Mr. cruz. Not the first time I have had my bubble burst. Chairman cruz, ranking number cantwell, distinct numbers of the committee, it is an honor to be with you here today. I would like to thank president trump, secretary lutnick, and undersecretary william cannon for putting their confidence in me to serve as assistant secretary to commerce and industry and analysis.
▶ 0:41:54Mr. Haines: I would like to extend my deepest gratitude for senator hagerty -- to senator hagerty for introducing me today. I feel fortunate to have his mentorship and support. It is also an honor to have several of my family members here with me, starting with my incredible wife, who is sitting behind me. Our first year of marriage, she asked me what I wanted to do with my life careerwise, and I thought I gave her the right answer, which was to be a good dad, to be a good husband.
▶ 0:42:24Mr. Haines: And she gently reminded me that that was the bare minimum and challenged me to aim higher. And her continual love and support the past 10 years of marriage has challenged me. Our first son henry is here as well. It is the honor of my life to be his dad and to have him by my side. His little brother oscar has been on the planet for a total of a few weeks so he decided to forgo the hearing to stay home with his grandmother.
▶ 0:42:54Mr. Haines: Probably taking a nap right now. My father-in-law is here from washington state. Thank you for being here. As well as one of my three older sisters and her husband and my best friend. My parents were unable to make the trip to washington, D.C., today, but they are probably watching from home in franklin, tennessee.
▶ 0:43:18Mr. Haines: I inherited a tenacious work ethic and a drive for excellence from my father and a sense of faith and conviction from my mother. They shaped me into the man I am today. I thank them for that. I grew up in frequent, tennessee, in the 1990's. I distinctly remember driving home from school with my mom and her telling me we lived in the greatest country in the world.
▶ 0:43:46Mr. Haines: Even at a young age, I was filled with a sense of pride and excitement and expectation for the future. I truly felt lucky to be an american. And I carry that pride with me as I left america to study abroad and started a career with the gas industry in asia. No matter where I went, who I met, what I did, I always carried that sense that there was no place like home, my home, the united states of america.
▶ 0:44:13Mr. Haines: In the early 2010's I started to notice a shift like a lot of people in the global, geopolitical, and economic landscape. For the first time in my life, america's future felt uncertain and not guaranteed. And so through the love and encouragement of my wife, who is from the area, decided to move to washington, D.C., in the private sector and pursue a career in foreign-policy and national security and public service.
▶ 0:44:41Mr. Haines: That journey has led me to multiple roles at the department state, pentagon, here in the united states senate, and now the t for the second time at the department of commerce. It has all culminated in the necessary preparation for this nomination.
▶ 0:45:02Mr. Haines: For six months prior to this nomination, I had the privilege of performing the duties of the assistant secretary, learning its policies, people, portfolios, budget, contracts, learning every facet of the organization. And it is because of that that I feel a sense of pride and excitement to have the opportunity to lead the organization in an official capacity.
▶ 0:45:26Mr. Haines: If confirmed, my singular focus will be supporting america industry's competitiveness through robust understanding of analysis, sectors, and supply chains, improving and growing capabilities, responding to questions facing policymakers, and empowering the professionals and people who work at ina to approach their work with a sense of subject matter expertise, mastery, autonomy, and purpose.
▶ 0:45:57Mr. Haines: To that end, I look forward to working constructively with his committee. Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:46:05Chair Cruz: Thank you, gentlemen. Congratulations on both of your nominations. I will say, Mr. haines, your 10 week old son would have certainly been welcomed here this morning. With some frequency, senators have been known to cry and sleep, so he would have fit well in this body. Mr. isaacman, welcome back.
▶ 0:46:30Chair Cruz: As you know, nasa's human spaceflight program and its artemis in particular is critical to maintaining U.S. leadership in space. But as I think you can appreciate, spaceflight comes at a significant cost. Its success requires program stability. United states cannot dominate in space if our commitments change wildly from one administration to the next or from one appropriation process to the next.
▶ 0:46:57Chair Cruz: That is why the nasa section of the one big beautiful bill act, which I authored, outlines a stable path forward for the agency. It gives clear guidance on the artemis moon mission. It paves the way for commercial space stations in low-earth orbit. And it in nasa's infrastructure to be able to execute its exploration missions.
▶ 0:47:21Chair Cruz: Will you commit to this committee and to the senate to full and timely compliance with the law's requirements if you are confirmed?
▶ 0:47:30Mr. Isaacman: Yes, senator. I do.
▶ 0:47:31Chair Cruz: Let's dive into those requirements. Congress wrote into the one big beautiful bill that there shall be a stable fully funded pat for artemis at least through artemis five. Congress also dedicated money for the gateway lunar orbit space station and the orion crew capsule. Artemis is the key I believe to both beating china to the lunar surface and to maintaining a U.S. presence at the moon.
▶ 0:48:02Chair Cruz: What concrete steps will you take to maintain the artemis program's long-term stability?
▶ 0:48:07Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I appreciate the question. Similar to my previous hearing, I absolutely believe the current architecture with sls is the fastest path to achieving our near-term lunar objectives which should be to return to the mood before our great rival and established infrastructure so we can realize the scientific, economic, and national security value. We have the first mission approaching in a matter of months, which is artemis ii. We will fly around the moon.
▶ 0:48:35Mr. Isaacman: The next mission, artemis three, we will land astronauts on the moon. It is a lot that has to happen between artemis two and three, so I am good for the one big beautiful bill affords us the opportunity for additional heavy launch vehicles through artemis four and five.
▶ 0:48:52Mr. Isaacman: Now, with respect to the continuity, in order for us to land the astronauts on the moon, it will mean one ror two commercial partners would have pioneered things to get the letter to the lunar environment. When we see astronauts work on the moon again, it means one or both of them were successful.
▶ 0:49:19Mr. Isaacman: In doing so after completing the artemis five mission, we should have numerous options available to us to have routine and affordable missions to the lunar surface for continuity beyond artemis five.
▶ 0:49:32Chair Cruz: It is also part of U.S. law that it is american policy to have sustained human habitation either on the moon or in lunar orbit. Do you agree with that objective and do you commit to everything possible to achieving it?
▶ 0:49:47Mr. Isaacman: I do, senator. I think the president of the united states will be very excited to see a lunar base.
▶ 0:49:53Chair Cruz: I will say just a minute ago you talked about competing providers. I want to be very clear I have no particular interest in one provider versus another. My interest is in making sure the objective is achieved. And at times, some have suggested that the objective of going to the moon and the objective of going to mars are in tension. I don't believe they are in tension. I believe they are both critical. America will be the first to land on mars.
▶ 0:50:23Chair Cruz: That is critically important. That is written into law, and I was proud to author that provision in law. But I also think at the same time we cannot lose the moon and lose the race to the moon to china. Do you agree that both are critical priorities?
▶ 0:50:37Mr. Isaacman: I do, senator. Again, consistent with my prior testimony before this committee, there actually are parallel efforts underway. There is no question the overwhelming near-term priority is to return astronauts to the moon and establish an enduring presence on what is a very scarce piece of real estate we are interested in at this time.
▶ 0:51:01Mr. Isaacman: But I mentioned before, in order for the american astronauts to step foot off of a lander onto the lunar surface, it means one or both and potentially many more commercial providers will have pioneered reusable heavylift lodge capabilities, which is the same capability, really the next giant leap capability that america needs for missions to the moon, mars, and beyond.
▶ 0:51:25Chair Cruz: The international space station, which is managed from texas's johnson space center, is scheduled to be retired by 2030. It will be replaced by one or more commercially developed stations, partially funded by nasa, partially by private partners. Congress has been clear that a gap in our presence in low-earth orbit would jeopardize U.S. strategic interests.
▶ 0:51:51Chair Cruz: Will you commit to guaranteeing a continuous human presence in low-earth orbit and a continuous american presence during your tenure and to ensure there is no gap between the retirement of the iss and the transition to commercially owned destinations?
▶ 0:52:07Mr. Isaacman: I absolutely commit to that, senator. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we can never accept a gap again not in the low-earth orbit or the ability to reach the moon. I like a lot of space enthusiasts dream of the day where we have multiple commercial space stations in low-earth orbit.
▶ 0:52:25Mr. Isaacman: But I think in order for that to be a financially viable model, we have to absolutely maximize the remaining life of the international space station, get the highest potential science and research to the station to crack the code on the orbital economy to give these space stations a chance.
▶ 0:52:41Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator cantwell.
▶ 0:52:43Sen. Cantwell: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Sorry I had to sorry I had tto step out for a minute to take a call from another senator. With secretary duffy announcing nasa would reopen to compute the artemis three human lander to ensure america would reach the lunar surface in 2028, you agree with that decision? And will you fully commit to this competition?
▶ 0:53:11Mr. Isaacman: Senator, both spacex and blue origin were already awarded contracts through a computer process to build a lander, and I don't think it was lost on either one of those organizations that the first company capable of delivering a lander to take american astronauts to the lunar surface back is the one that this nation will go with. I think that competition is fantastic and the best thing for spacex's blue on their heels and vice versa.
▶ 0:53:38Sen. Cantwell: Great. We are glad they recompeted. We argued for the redundancy of competition. There is nothing like competition to get the product that we need, and I think the decision that was made was based on the urgency to return by 2028. You believe in that process?
▶ 0:54:02Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I absolutely agree with competition. I think we need competition for the vendors that support nasa's critical mission. I think competition among world powers is actually a really good thing as long as we don't lose.
▶ 0:54:15Sen. Cantwell: [laughter] ok. The rmd issue -- the r&d issue I mentioned in my opening statement, the project that has nasa's support in trying to generate more composites, we have with idaho established a tech hub in thermoplastics and really believe that the united states should not lose this race
▶ 0:54:47Sen. Cantwell: For high rate composite manufacturing. Will you fight nasa's fight to keep the budget to sufficiently fund such operations and support the technology development that is needed for aerospace materials?
▶ 0:54:59Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I think it is squarely in the responsibility of the aeronautics portion of nasa to work on the absolute cutting edge materials that will ensure the competitiveness of our aeronautics industry well into the future.
▶ 0:55:13Sen. Cantwell: Ok. And then how can you further leverage nasa's university work for development and research?
▶ 0:55:20Mr. Isaacman: There is a couple parts to that, senator. First, I think in general it is part of nasa's responsibility towards inspiration and stem education to award grants to academic institutions that give students hands-on opportunities with hardware, ideally inspire them to want to graduate and either worked at nasa or contribute to industry. Also, I think it is a great way to crack the code on important research that will bubble up to nasa achieving its objectives.
▶ 0:55:50Sen. Cantwell: Thank you. Mr. haines, how do we get the supply chain on shoring or supply chain materials similar to the same subject? One of the reasons I became interested in the tech, is actually an idaho employer came to me and said, you understand that europeans are trying to bias? I said, no, I don't understand that. They said, everybody is looking for the best technology and see it in our country and want to buy it. We are not doing it and creating the supply chain.
▶ 0:56:22Sen. Cantwell: How do you think this job in this role, you can help improve supply chain identifications for americans competitiveness, particularly in manufacturing?
▶ 0:56:30Mr. Haines: Thank you. Thank you, senator. One word simply is mapping. Doing this across a wide variety of sectors we have to understand the supply chain, understand where the chokepoints are, if any. There are two components within industry analysis that do supply chain analysis, trade policy analysis as well as the supply chain center. There is a good amount of overlap there.
▶ 0:57:00Mr. Haines: If confirmed, one of my soul focus is will be to supercharge our analytic capabilities, bring some currently out of house tools in-house to be able to enter specific questions just like that. And be able to have a little bit more control in terms of mapping and analyzing supply chains.
▶ 0:57:25Sen. Cantwell: Do you look at this issue as a true competition issue with china and other countries to make sure we are mapping these supply chains?
▶ 0:57:33Mr. Haines: It absolutely is. It is a competitive issue across the board. I would say yes, senator.
▶ 0:57:39Sen. Cantwell: There is a legislation sponsored by myself and others on promoting resilient supply chain. Will you look at that and tell us whether you can support that legislation?
▶ 0:57:49Mr. Haines: I have looked at it. We provided additional -- and if passed, I would be happy to commit to do so.
▶ 0:57:59Sen. Cantwell: You see any problems with it now?
▶ 0:58:01Mr. Haines: I would have to read the bill over again. The current text is escaping me, but I am happy to do that.
▶ 0:58:08Sen. Cantwell: For the record, that would be great. Thank you so much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:58:12Chair Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 0:58:14Sen. Moran: Thank you for exhibiting greater speed than the normal center process in having this hearing.
▶ 0:58:24Chair Cruz: I am sure glaciers move at greater speed.
▶ 0:58:28Sen. Moran: We share that view, Mr. chairman. Nice to see this committee is moving forward in regard to confirmation, consideration confirmation of a new nasa administrator. I look forward to his confirmation. I look forward to the senate considering his approval in this committee and the senate approving it next week. Mr. isaacman, let me start with you.
▶ 0:58:55Sen. Moran: My intended questions changed a bit because I received a letter this week from a kansas farmer, and it captured my attention because I certainly share the views of senator cantwell and senator cruz in regards to the moon and mars as opposed to a nationally the public thinks nasa is moving to an object in space. Nasa has a lot of roles. You talked about stem education being one of them. I want to mention the mission directed science.
▶ 0:59:27Sen. Moran: The letter that captured me is from a kansas farmer named john. He indicates to me that nasa's earth science investments now directly support U.S. farmers in ways that were unimaginable even a decade ago.
▶ 0:59:45Sen. Moran: Tools based on nasa's data and science like open et, the rangeland analysis platform provide real-time field level insight into soil moisture, biomass, drought stress, water use, stability. These are future technologies, he says. They are already built, functional, and being used in states like mine today. He mentions fiat.
▶ 1:00:12Sen. Moran: There is a national partnership that brings early development producers together with nasa researchers to develop practical on farm tools using satellite data. This mission is to unite farmers with nasa to turn earth observation technology into real-world decisions that support profitability, water efficiency, and risk reduction. The kansas farmer found value in nasa. It is something we don't always talk about and think about when we think about space.
▶ 1:00:43Sen. Moran: I am looking for your thoughts and response to what this farmer is reminding me of. How do you see nasa supporting operationally developing the satellites that support precision and culture? Tell me the role that nasa has to play in everyday lives.
▶ 1:01:03Mr. Isaacman: Thank you for the question, senator. At the present time, we only inhabit one planet. Earth science is pretty vitally important. It is a role nasa has had since the agency was established. We have landsat satellites up there looking down, understanding droughts and flooding and wildfires, natural disasters almost in real time that obviously play a direct role on the agriculture community there is honestly our gps constellation that are going
▶ 1:01:34Mr. Isaacman: To go hand in hand with agriculture but good for next-generation farming. I see this as a vital role that nasa continues to fill.
▶ 1:01:42Sen. Moran: I think you for that statement, that commitment. I am pleased to be a member of this committee and chair the subcommittee on aviation and space and I also serve as chair of the set up a fusion committee for nasa and the department of commerce. Mr. isaacman, have you had a chance to look at our budget, our appropriations bill? Any response to whatever committee has approved and what we expect to be on the senate floor in the next two weeks?
▶ 1:02:12Mr. Isaacman: Well, senator, I don't think I can really comment on any pending legislation other than to say we will absolutely maximize every dollar congress affords to the agency.
▶ 1:02:25Sen. Moran: Would you expand that commitment to say you will execute the funding that we provide to nasa in this legislation as it is intended to be spent?
▶ 1:02:35Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I will always follow the laws.
▶ 1:02:38Sen. Moran: Thank you. I will also use this opportunity to indicate on our success we need the commerce justice science bill to the senate floor , I encourage all of my colleagues who were so excited about space exploration and going to the moon and going to mars and maybe who have interest in agriculture and earth sciences, I would encourage them to vote for the appropriation bill so we can in addition to authorizing and
▶ 1:03:08Sen. Moran: Confirming personnel, we can encompass goals that the committee is spending time this morning highlighting. Let me ask about another aspect. I have 14 seconds. Me ask a question. In fairness so the gentleman from tennessee is not ignored. It follows the question of senator cantwell.
▶ 1:03:28Sen. Moran: And that is making sure that we are using ita not only as a trade remedy and for export promotion but to be a proactive partner in shaping policy, improving supply-chain resiliency, strengthening U.S. competitiveness. Tell me you think that is a significant component of what your job is and will be.
▶ 1:03:54Mr. Haines: Thank you, senator. It is a critical component of the job.
▶ 1:03:57Sen. Moran: Thank you.
▶ 1:03:58Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator moran. Senator kim has kindly agreed to allow senator moreno to skip in front of him in line since senator moreno has to preside on the senate floor.
▶ 1:04:10Sen. Moreno: Thank you, senator kim. That is I mean I will be less harsh on you on the pickle ball court, by thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Mrs. isaacman, for putting up with this double take process. I am sure having a great supportive spouse has been critical for your life as it has been mine. Mr.
▶ 1:04:34Sen. Moreno: Isaacman, as the administration looks to accelerate golden dawn and strengthen national security space capabilities, how do you see nasa and the U.S. space force better coordinating their work in power propulsion, communications, and hypersonic muscle testing, especially given the unique test environments in places like armstrong test facility to avoid duplication?
▶ 1:05:02Mr. Isaacman: Thank you for the question, senator. So clearly, nasa's job is the peaceful exploration of air and space. It is also not lost on us that this is a domain that is of great strategic importance. And I do think in a fiscally constrained environment, it is important that we are not having duplicate infrastructure or various bespoke programs what we could have a more unified approach to it.
▶ 1:05:32Mr. Isaacman: For example, a lot of the work that is done both at glen and marshall space lassiter with nuclear as applications for peaceful expiration -- explanation of space but also department of war implications. I hope we could collaborate with some of our counterparts in other agencies to avoid any duplicate of spending or inefficient allocation of resources.
▶ 1:05:58Sen. Moreno: Speaking of nuclear, at nasa glenn research center, we are leading the development of a 100 kilowatt lunar fission reactor. How should nasa build on this leadership in nuclear power propulsion to ensure the U.S. stays ahead of returning to the moon and reaching mars?
▶ 1:06:17Mr. Isaacman: I love that question. I think nasa is funded by the taxpayers to do the near impossible. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, what no other agency or organization or company is capable of doing or just to do.
▶ 1:06:31Mr. Isaacman: I think nasa should be evolving to work on grand almost mini manhattan project programs that have an a fee-for-service power applications for sunlight or undertaking discovery missions past mars or even on the surface of mars for manufacturing propelling.
▶ 1:06:53Mr. Isaacman: This is working whether a nuclear propulsion, thermal propulsion, surface power, there are a ton of applications nasa should be working on in that regard. When nasa does work on the near impossible, what no one else is doing, and attract the kind of talent that wants to participate in those programs and achieve these kinds of I guess world changing breakthroughs.
▶ 1:07:15Sen. Moreno: Appreciate that and look forward to having you and hosting you in cleveland that nasa glenn. Very easy trip from home so I will not keep him long. He will be home for dinner if he comes and visits as opposed to texas. It is really far away. It is an out of your way trip to go down there but cleveland is right around the corner. Mr. haines, the U.S. depends on aerospace supply chains.
▶ 1:07:42Sen. Moreno: What is your plan to strengthen domestic component manufacturing and reduce reliance on china's suppliers?
▶ 1:07:47Mr. Haines: Thank you for that question, senator. And thank you again for meeting with me yesterday. I appreciate it and hearing what your priorities are. I would say three things. One is the role of industry is to support a wide variety of trade policies. We currently are conducting a number of different investigations, supporting different investigations.
▶ 1:08:15Mr. Haines: And as a part of that, we are understanding what these supply chains are, where they heah chains are, where they head, and how to create incentives to bring those back to the united states. We meet with industry regularly. The assistant secretary for manufacturing was just at the dubai show. He met with boeing, a number of different aviation companies, understanding what their needs are, and coming up with creative solutions to bring that back to america.
▶ 1:08:43Sen. Moreno: Last question. You do obviously a lot of data. Your job is to make sure people understand what a set of circumstances are. Others opine and make decisions, etc.
▶ 1:08:59Sen. Moreno: Would it be possible without president trump's policies for us to have gone from 51% of the cars sold in america being made in america at the beginning of this calendar year to where we are right now, which is at 57% and climbing of the cars sold in america being made in america? Without president trump's policies, would that six-point swing in less than a year have been possible?
▶ 1:09:24Mr. Haines: No, senator.
▶ 1:09:26Sen. Moreno: Thank you. No more questions. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:09:30Chair Cruz: Thank you. Now I recognize senator kim.
▶ 1:09:34Sen. Kim: Mr. isaacman, good to see you again. Last time around, we had a lot of opportunities to talk between the two of us. We both stressed how important nasa is and space exploration is to our country, to our science. While we did not ci to ion everything, I was willing to support -- see eye to eye on everything, I was willing to support you.
▶ 1:10:02Sen. Kim: Now you are before us again and one thing that has come before my mind is having seen a document named project athena. I guess I just want to ask you, what is project athena? And do you stand by what is in that document?
▶ 1:10:14Mr. Isaacman: Thanks for the question, senator. So at the time of my previous nomination, moving into a new environment such as government service, a response ability as great as the leadership of nasa, I would call it a draft document that I continue to update based on my interactions with the briefing leadership at nash as agency, my reactions with various senators -- my interactions with various senators and nasa staff.
▶ 1:10:46Mr. Isaacman: My thoughts on the agency direction, research requests, it was always something meant to be refined with actual data should I have been confirmed, but I do stand behind everything in the document even though it was written seven months ago. I think it was all directionally correct, consistent with my testimony, and interaction with various senators.
▶ 1:11:05Sen. So You Are -- Sen. Kim: So you are the author of the document?
▶ 1:11:12Mr. Isaacman: I am.
▶ 1:11:13Sen. Kim: The sole author of the document?
▶ 1:11:16Mr. Isaacman: I am.
▶ 1:11:18Sen. Kim: You said "I have no intention as of now to say I will cancel any program. I need to if I am confirmed to be getting a job understand where things are at." what we talked about was that if you were confirmed you would go in, you would allow yourself to be in the job before you make these decisions. You would engage with the nasa employees and others.
▶ 1:11:41Sen. Kim: So when I see in project athena comments like calling for reevaluation of sustained lunar presence, you said to the chairman today that you are committed to artemis, committed to an enduring presence on the lunar surface. But then you are telling me right now you stand behind the document and stand behind I assume this statement about reevaluating the sustained lunar presence.
▶ 1:12:10Sen. Kim: So I am just having trouble understanding. Do you stand by that comment in line with project athena about reevaluating the sustained lunar presence?
▶ 1:12:19Mr. Isaacman: Senator, it was 62 pages worth of material. So I imagine any one sentence or so can be taken out of context. In my prior testimony before this committee, I said it was imperative for us to realize our near-term lunar objectives. I think the time I said to determine the scientific, economic, and national security value of being on the lunar surface.
▶ 1:12:43Mr. Isaacman: Today I come before you because there is overwhelming clarity within the administration of not only to return to the moon before our rifle but also establish the infrastructure for an enduring presence. Naturally, six to seven months is an awful lot of time. I would say, senator, there is probably 10 pages within that plan that called for research requests to make sure you gather the accurate information to form a defensive plan.
▶ 1:13:09Mr. Isaacman: I stand behind the idea that if anyone is going into a position of great responsibility, it is better to go in with a plan than not at all.
▶ 1:13:16Sen. Kim: Is it better to have humility in the job and go and engage the experts and scientists that have been doing this work? I don't when people having a vision and having priorities. But you had told this committee that you would hold off on making up your mind, but the document very much came, and I was on track to take anything out of context. I am giving you the opportunity to explain it.
▶ 1:13:41Sen. Kim: For instance, you responded to a colleague of mine about the importance of climate science and the role that science is playing -- nasa is playing. But in project athena, you say "nasa should be taken out of taxpayer-funded climate science business and leave it for academia to determine." that stands in contrast I feel like with things we have heard you say before so I guess I wanted to ask you, do you stand by that statement of taking nasa out of climate science business?
▶ 1:14:10Mr. Isaacman: Senator, first of all, I completely agree with you. C1 I completely agree with you. I think humility is an important quality of leadership. Specifically calling for research requests across the associated administrators, the subject matter experts to inform a definitive plan. That is throughout the entire documents.
▶ 1:14:35Sen. Kim: You did not seek a request, it was determinative and saying it should seek out -- take it out. And in cutting thousands of civil servant positions. I'm out of time and I will follow up. I'm trying to be someone you can work with, I think this needs to be bipartisan going forward. But some of what I saw in the document stood in contrast to things you had assured me of.
▶ 1:15:01Sen. Kim: It is ok you -- to say you changed your mind, but when you come here and say you stand behind what is in that document, that causes us to have further follow-up here to understand what your positions are.
▶ 1:15:15Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I would welcome any opportunity to get together and will happily talk through anything in that document and give you the rationale behind that and I welcome your feedback. To do this job will absolutely take the collaboration and cooperation with this committee in congress.
▶ 1:15:33Sen. Kim: Thank you. I yield back. >> thank you. I wanted to ask you, Mr. isaacman, let's pretend you are in missouri among a group of students, constituents, just a big cross-section of estate.
▶ 1:15:54Sen. Kim: If you were to answer the question why is that important for the united states of america to get to the moon first or get to mars first ahead of the chinese, what would be your answer?
▶ 1:16:06Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I think there are a couple of reasons. One of which is fulfilling a promise made by every president since 1989 and over $100 billion that has been funded by taxpayers who know our grand return to the moon. I think it is imperative we do so and failing to do so calls into question american exceptionalism beyond our expertise in space.
▶ 1:16:32Mr. Isaacman: Second, I do believe as I mentioned in my opening remarks that when we return we will have an opportunity to determine and realize the scientific, economic, and national security value on the lunar surface. For example, in my previous hearing, it is predicted to be more efficient source of fusion power on the moon.
▶ 1:17:00Mr. Isaacman: Our foreign policy and wars have been fought over sources of power, to get that wrong could have implications here on earth that could change the balance of power.
▶ 1:17:08Sen. Schmitt: We have in this country a pretty robust ecosystem I think of new companies, small businesses, sort of disruptors that entered the fray here. Whether commercial space exploration or travel or what have you. How can nasa help cultivate that, work with them? I do think that is one of the advantages we have over china in this race?
▶ 1:17:42Mr. Isaacman: A lot of people do believe these are new developments. Going back to the 1960's in the space race, nasa worked alongside some of our great aerospace companies, whether boeing or mcdonnell douglas. A lot of those names are still relevant in the space program and there are new names referred to sometimes as new space or commercial space. I think it will take the contributions of the many to do the neon -- near impossible.
▶ 1:18:15Mr. Isaacman: Where nasa can play a role in sharing its expertise and talent to help these new companies. When nasa does tend to figure out the near impossible and it is mature enough to hand it off to innovation, that is a great outcome. I think nasa can do a good job expressing the need. What is the requirement? There are lots and lots of commercial space companies now.
▶ 1:18:42Mr. Isaacman: Ranking member cantwell said there are over 1000 in her state alone. That is fantastic and we want to make sure they bubble up toward our objectives. Outlining the problems that need to be solved to concentrate american ingenuity in the right direction, sir.
▶ 1:19:00Sen. Schmitt: I think st. Louis is a defense town, with the defense side. The nga west has a lot of opportunities, which leads to the next question on quantum. Washington university has done a lot of great work. How do you see nasa's role in furthering that mission to be on the cutting-edge?
▶ 1:19:28Sen. Schmitt: All of this, civilizations come and go and in many ways whoever has the most advanced technology whether warfare or the commercial side tend to thrive and win out. Nasa is playing a very important role. How do you see on the quantum side nasa working with research institutions in the private sector?
▶ 1:19:51Mr. Isaacman: It's an excellent question, senator.
▶ 1:19:55Sen. Schmitt: Thank you, by the way. Thank you for that. [laughter]
▶ 1:19:58Mr. Isaacman: I mentioned earlier about the importance of determining the economy. The space economy has come down to launch, observation, and communication funded by the government. If we want an exciting civilization in the future with lots of space stations and the lunar outpost and mars bay says, we will have to figure out that economy.
▶ 1:20:28Mr. Isaacman: What I would like to do is ensure that the highest potential science and research has an expeditious path to the international space station to maximize that remaining life and crack the code to give the commercial space stations a fighting chance. Quantum has a number of applications to take advantage of the unique environment of microgravity.
▶ 1:20:50Sen. Schmitt: Thank you for your service and I wish you all the best. Good luck.
▶ 1:20:54Mr. Isaacman: Thank you. >> welcome, gentlemen, welcome to the committee. Mr. isaacman, welcome back to the committee. You were here before for this position. As we all know, president trump withdrew your nomination cited concerns with I believe your political donations to democratic candidates.
▶ 1:21:21Mr. Isaacman: And in a july 6 post on truth social, the president also stated that it would be absolutely inappropriate for you to head nasa given your close relationship with spacex ceo elon musk. Since that time, there have been additional reports that in the time between your nomination being pulled and now being renominated by the president, I think you'd donated roughly $2 million to president trump's super pac?
▶ 1:21:52Mr. Isaacman: Based on this information, I'm concerned that the decision-making around this position may not have been about ensuring nasa has strong leadership. Could you please explain what happened to make president trump reconsider the decision to pull your nomination and what assurances you may have provided, if any that your relationship with a -- elon musk and spacex would not create a significant conflict of interest
▶ 1:22:23Mr. Isaacman: For you in this role?
▶ 1:22:23Mr. Isaacman: Senator, there was a lot there, so I will try to hit it all. If I miss anything, please asked me to correct. First and foremost, I wouldn't even want to begin to speculate why the president nominated me, withdrew it and renominated me other than to say I was grateful for the opportunity in the first place. It was an incredible experience.
▶ 1:22:51Mr. Isaacman: When the president told my nomination, he gifted me an extended summer vacation to take my kids on some adventures before they lose interest in me. I understand he ran a competitive process and interviewed several candidates. I was grateful for consideration at the time and I'm happy to be here now.
▶ 1:23:11Mr. Isaacman: In terms of donations I think it was covered over the summer, I felt I had enough exposure to washington and got over some of the initial intimidation factor and thought I would have a political career, may be be able to contribute for all the right reasons so it shouldn't be surprising that I supported the republican party. At the same time period, I probably made 30 times that amount and donations to charitable causes.
▶ 1:23:41Mr. Isaacman: With respect to elon musk, the question comes up, every story I see that writes about my nomination refers to the elon musk ally or friend and in a world where everybody has a phone with a camera on it, there are no pictures of us at dinner, at a yacht, on an airplane because they don't exist. My relationship with Mr.
▶ 1:24:02Mr. Isaacman: Musk is the fact that I have led to missions to space at spacex because it is the only organization that can send astronauts to space since the space shuttle retired and did not respect my relationship is no different than that of nasa.
▶ 1:24:17Sen. Peters: Mr. haines, congratulations on your nomination. If confirmed as the assistant secretary, you will oversee the office of industry and analysis housed under the international trade administration. As part of the responsibilities, ina reduces trade data to inform decisions across the federal government.
▶ 1:24:42Sen. Peters: I think it is safe to say that without accurate data, the government and this administration risks making shortsighted and ill-informed decisions that could impact domestic industries and workforces as well as alienate some of our closest international allies.
▶ 1:24:59Sen. Peters: As you may be aware earlier this year, the president fired the commissioner of the bureau of labor statistics, which is responsible for applying critical economic data, employment numbers, as well as the inflation rate. Not only was the firing clearly political in nature because the president didn't like what the data said, it also calls into question the accuracy of data produced going forward from the bls.
▶ 1:25:26Sen. Peters: My fear is that this firing and other offices through the -- through the federal government including ina will face political pressures from the president to produce certain figures, certain metrics that align with his policy goals rather than actually publishing what the country needs, which is unbiased statistics.
▶ 1:25:49Sen. Peters: My question is do you believe there is any political influence in the data currently being produced by the office of industry and analysis and how do you plan if confirmed in ensuring that ina continues to produce unbiased data which is absolutely essential to policy?
▶ 1:26:06Mr. Haines: Thank you for that question, senator peters. The short answer is no, there is no political bias in the data we produce. If confirmed it will be one of my highest priorities to ensure that the data we receive from industry partners and companies and from unbiased data sources, proprietary, will remain of the highest integrity.
▶ 1:26:41Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator shaheen -- senator sheehy.
▶ 1:27:00Senator Sheehy: Isn't it accurate that gina raimondo had an 800,000 job revision when she was secretary of commerce?
▶ 1:27:10Mr. Haines: I'm not sure the exact statistics.
▶ 1:27:13Sen. Sheehy: No, that is what happened, that is the facts. We were routinely told that the republican party has politicized numbers. The truth is we saw manufacturing flee this country. 97% of rare earths now processed in china.
▶ 1:27:33Sen. Sheehy: That data didn't seem to move the needle at all despite us watching for decades as manufacturing has fled this country with overburdened regulation. Every administration whether they had politicized data or non-politicized data, whether they ignore the data or lie about the data, they sent the industries overseas and now we are paying for that every single day and jared's job is going to be so much harder because the
▶ 1:28:05Sen. Sheehy: Critical materials he needs don't come from america and some of our most sensitive technologies are made in china. I would like to hear your plan on making sure that we not just have the data but you are ensuring the data is shared in a timely manner so we can make sure we are making policy decisions in this body as well as in the executive branch to ensure we are bringing those industries back and ensuring we
▶ 1:28:36Sen. Sheehy: Have dominance for the next century.
▶ 1:28:37Mr. Haines: Thank you for that question, senator. I will work collaboratively to solve these issues. In the executive branch, the investment committee currently tasked with the supply chain issues, we have identified markets for all 54 criminal -- critical minerals.
▶ 1:29:08Mr. Haines: We have committed letters of intent to achieve the process. That is just one aspect of the work ina is doing in terms of making sure that the white house and secretary lutnick have the information to solve these problems and we will continue to do that.
▶ 1:29:34Sen. Sheehy: Is there a statute that structurally ties you so that the economic data you are gathering is communicated in a timely manner to do w?
▶ 1:29:51Mr. Haines: I'm not aware of the specific statute, we do have areas within the capital and pentagon and acquisitions because we have the cross-pollination of personnel. It could be strengthened. If there are ideas of how to strengthen that, I'd be willing to work with you to do that.
▶ 1:30:21Sen. Sheehy: I would encourage you to do that because obviously what we have seen especially in the last 35 years is a pretty sporadic bureaucracy overtake our defense acquisitions system which has placed process over outcomes.
▶ 1:30:38Sen. Sheehy: There needs to be a force ensuring do w is not making commit decisions and national economic strategy decisions related to our basic delinked from the economic reality and unfortunately there is not a real feedback loop. The results have been apparent. China built ships 230 times faster than we do. They put more planes in the air than we have missiles to shoot them down.
▶ 1:31:17Sen. Sheehy: Without thinking about it, we press ago, we don't have normal infrastructure providing that gps data. Life shuts down. Uber doesn't show up at the street corner, our entire life revolves around in economy that will be critical in jared's numeral. The quantum computing.
▶ 1:31:46Sen. Sheehy: Making sure our supremacy goes hand-in-hand. I think that will be critical in the next several years.
▶ 1:32:03Chair Cruz: Senator markey.
▶ 1:32:06Senator Markey: During the last hearing, you refused to confirm whether elon musk with whom you have deep personal and financial ties was present at the meeting that then president-elect trump offered you the job as the next administrator. I wanted to give you one more chance to set the record straight. Was elon musk at the meeting at mar-a-lago when president trump offered you the job?
▶ 1:32:34Mr. Isaacman: Senator, it's great to have a conversation again. I thought we really ran this one into the ground last time. What I will tell you, senator, and I wish I had the opportunity to explain further before is my first interview with the resident -- president and I've had several opportunities to reengage was in a ballroom typesetting, senator. There were dozens of people moving in and out.
▶ 1:33:02Sen. Markey: Was elon musk in the room when president trump offered you the job?
▶ 1:33:08Mr. Isaacman: Senator, my interview and conversations with the president and there were dozens of people moving in and out of the room and I don't think it's fair to bring any of them into this room.
▶ 1:33:20Sen. Markey: Once again, you are refusing to tell us whether elon musk was in the room that day. That actually makes me think elon musk was in the room that day, but that you understand it is a clear conflict of interest that he was there. You are asking us to confirm U.S.
▶ 1:33:42Sen. Markey: The next nasa administrator and spacex gets $15 billion from american taxpayers for its business from nasa. You have investments in spacex, a contract between his company and your payments company, and you bought space parts from spacex. Mr.
▶ 1:34:07Sen. Markey: Isaacman, what was the value of these contracts were spaceflights with spacex?
▶ 1:34:13Mr. Isaacman: Well, senator, just to clarify, I have no direct or indirect equity exposure to any of those space companies. Including spacex. I've disclosed all my financial ties to the ethics officials at nasa and the offer -- office of government ethics. I more than acknowledged I went to space twice with spacex but I point out that they are the only company capable of astronauts -- sending astronauts to and from space.
▶ 1:34:45Mr. Isaacman: My relationship with them is the same as nasa's.
▶ 1:34:52Sen. Markey: What was the value of the contracts with spacex?
▶ 1:34:55Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I don't think it is lost on anyone that going to and from spaces rather expensive.
▶ 1:35:02Sen. Markey: Your financial paperwork suggest it was over $50 million. Was at $100 million? Two hundred million dollars?
▶ 1:35:11Mr. Isaacman: We have never disclosed at other than we were able to substantially raise sieves -- more than the mission for charity like saint jude.
▶ 1:35:23Sen. Markey: Will you request that spacex release?
▶ 1:35:26Mr. Isaacman: They didn't give me a discount.
▶ 1:35:29Sen. Markey: I appreciate that. Will you request spacex release you from the nda so you can provide the committee with this information?
▶ 1:35:38Mr. Isaacman: I will commit to always work with the appropriate ethics professionals to make sure I'm continually in compliance.
▶ 1:35:46Sen. Markey: Will you rely --will you ask them to release you from the nda?
▶ 1:35:50Mr. Isaacman: I have no issue with that.
▶ 1:35:55Sen. Markey: That would be helpful. Mr. isaacman, can you tell us since president trump withdrew your nomination, have you had any communication with Mr. musk about the job of nasa administrator?
▶ 1:36:08Mr. Isaacman: I have not, senator.
▶ 1:36:10Sen. Markey: So the american people actually deserve to know how much money you have spent personally on spacex and whether the head of spacex was personally involved in your nomination because we are looking at conflicts of interest. It is ok that they have their own center of gravity and we just need to make it is fully -- make sure it is fully understood by the american people.
▶ 1:36:41Sen. Markey: Since your last nomination, we have received the president's 2026 budget request which proposes a nearly 50% cut to nasa science funding. You support that?
▶ 1:36:56Mr. Isaacman: I certainly support the president's goal of reducing the deficit and shrinking our national debt. An awful lot has happened from the initial presidential budget request to the continuing resolution we have been operating in to the one big beautiful bill that has plus stop additional funding for nasa. If I've confirmed, I would love to get my arms around where we are pleasantly at.
▶ 1:37:20Sen. Markey: A 50% cut to nasa's science budget is dramatic. Considering reports about your "project athena" plan for nasa which banks and of the decimation of our scientific abilities, it calls for nasa to stop collecting its own servicee companies to set their own price for data that nasa needs to
▶ 1:37:52Sen. Markey: Function on an ongoing basis. Would starling or spacex be companies nasa would have to turn to to obtain data?
▶ 1:37:59Mr. Isaacman: First of all, I think pretty much everything you said there was not correct. What that draft document contemplated was working with commercial companies for certain types of earth observation data, not spacex or starling, I think I particularly called out planet and black sky has companies that might be able to deliver earth observation and climate science data at lower cost specifically to free up resources for other planetary science missions that
▶ 1:38:31Mr. Isaacman: Commercial companies are not capable of doing.
▶ 1:38:32Sen. Markey: I would say this. The proposal would strip nasa for parts and send the transfer of taxpayer funds to the bank accounts of starling and spacex owned by the very same man who you may not have been in the room when trump offered you the job and we are just going to have to keep a very close eye on what will unfold at nasa if you are confirmed. Thank you.
▶ 1:38:56Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator budd.
▶ 1:38:59Senator Budd: Thank you all for being here. Mr. isaacman, great to see you again. Let's talk about nasa's quest to go supersonic. Designed to do risk the science, validate why a supersonic technologies and let american industries, like the presence in north carolina, let them take the lead in building the commercial market.
▶ 1:39:26Senator Budd: How will you ensure that nasa stays focused on enabling that new industry and avoids creating unintentional regulatory or technical barriers for the next generation of supersonic flight?
▶ 1:39:41Mr. Isaacman: This is a subject I'm pretty passionate about. I do believe it is nasa's job to explore the near impossible in space and when they arrive at a major development and that capability is mature enough to hand it off to industry with a can drive innovation and bring down cost. There is some overlap with what boom is doing.
▶ 1:40:08Mr. Isaacman: I would love to see a lot more american companies trying to break the status quo. That was a really exciting one we all had an opportunity to watch recently.
▶ 1:40:31Mr. Isaacman: When they do have those breakthroughs, when nasa was experiencing -- experimenting with fly by wire which have made their way.
▶ 1:40:45Sen. Budd: Do you think there is a problem with quest eventually competing against boom? I would say the whole industry, not just boom in particular?
▶ 1:40:55Mr. Isaacman: I would certainly hope not. Talent would naturally probably gravitate toward industry. When no one else is doing which is going to attract that talent to work on that exciting technology.
▶ 1:41:24Mr. Isaacman: They hand it off to energy and recalibrate it to the next big bold endeavor and that works for nasa very well.
▶ 1:41:32Sen. Budd: During your testimony earlier, you were clear that the united states is in the middle of the second space race. The great rival established a space silk road establishing space infrastructure development .
▶ 1:41:54Sen. Budd: How does this space diplomacy from an adversary affect our prospects for continuing dominance in space and what is your vision for space diplomacy of ours?
▶ 1:42:04Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I think there are a couple of parts to that. Nasa has been referred to as a soft power. A lot of our greatest endeavors are worked on. I think what is concerning now is that some of these countries have more than one choice. For the longest time period, america owned the ultimate high ground to space.
▶ 1:42:37Mr. Isaacman: The chinese do have their own space station now. They went to having a space station, I think this is whether needs to be urgency to take a close look at nasa and do a close look at that to clear those obstacles and pads so we can get back to doing world changing missions again.
▶ 1:43:03Sen. Budd: Sounds great. Thank you so much for your time. Chairman?
▶ 1:43:07Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator lujan.
▶ 1:43:11Senator Lujan: Mr. chairman, thank you for that and for calling this hearing. Mr. isaacman, welcome back to the commerce committee. I guess I will start out by asking, you believe in science?
▶ 1:43:23Mr. Isaacman: Of course, senator.
▶ 1:43:27Sen. Lujan: You support science?
▶ 1:43:29Mr. Isaacman: I do.
▶ 1:43:30Sen. Lujan: You have conducted a lot of science experiments are your career?
▶ 1:43:34Mr. Isaacman: Yes.
▶ 1:43:36Sen. Lujan: I appreciate that. A few of my colleagues have raised the concern about the nearly 50% cut to nasa's science mission directorate. Which is foundational to nasa's 1958 congressional charter.
▶ 1:43:51Sen. Lujan: By the -- by the very nature of the questions you are receiving about nasa today, it shows the broad support for nasa scientific mission. Congress rejected these cuts. Do you believe nasa has a statutory obligation under its founding charter to conduct and support earth and space science for the benefit of the nation?
▶ 1:44:20Mr. Isaacman: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:44:22Sen. Lujan: This is going great, Mr. isaacson. Many of nasa science programs are not commodities, you cannot run a value added proposition that supports scientific discovery and national security. They provide indispensable space weather data.
▶ 1:44:43Sen. Lujan: I appreciate my colleague reminding us all across america when we pull out our devices or we are depending on the services where we interact with every day that we are touching some of this and we depend on it. Like your friend, Mr. musk, I would say with some of the commercial actors, they depend on solar activity. Nasa earth science assets track environmental changes, everything you described.
▶ 1:45:15Sen. Lujan: U.S. military readiness, critically important, national security, the importance of the science directorate, so let me ask you directly, will you execute the funds appropriated by congress exactly as congress directed?
▶ 1:45:33Mr. Isaacman: Yes, sir, we will maximize the -- every dollar that congress allocates.
▶ 1:45:40Sen. Lujan: I didn't support the reconciliation bill that passed over the summer, there are pieces of it, one that was proposed independently when nasa submitted its commercial industry. I see you nodding with this, you are clear with this, I imagine?
▶ 1:46:06Mr. Isaacman: Reasonably familiar.
▶ 1:46:08Sen. Lujan: The orbiter would support future missions and help support the critical comms relay needed for existing and future science missions like the mars sample return. You mentioned it is home to companies like rocket lab who have produced the world's highest efficiency solar and would power the mto for example.
▶ 1:46:30Sen. Lujan: Do you commit to following through on the letter of the law and ensuring a rapid acquisition strategy for the mto to deliver it by the law's 2028 due date?
▶ 1:46:41Mr. Isaacman: Senator, my commitment to you and all the other members is always to follow the law. As a space enthusiast I'm super excited about any activities that o'brien -- open up further science and discovery on mars.
▶ 1:46:58Sen. Lujan: Appreciate that very much.
▶ 1:46:59Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator klobuchar.
▶ 1:47:04Senator Klobuchar: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. I'm going to start out with an interesting question about agriculture data. I don't thing many people understand that nasa's satellite data is hugely valuable for farmers.
▶ 1:47:32Senator Klobuchar: I'm the ranking member hirono the agate committee and of introduce the agriculture renovation act to strengthen that data collection. Could you talk about your plans to preserve and expand those types of monitoring programs, weather patterns, and the like and how you can better work with the department of agriculture?
▶ 1:47:53Mr. Isaacman: As I mentioned was senator moran before, we inhabit only a single planet and it is probably important for us to continue to study get the greatest extent possible. I fully support that we should be gathering data that especially contributes to hardships here on earth.
▶ 1:48:14Mr. Isaacman: There are great agriculture issues and I'm grateful nasa has the capability to gather this data in real-time and I don't see that going away ever.
▶ 1:48:26Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you. The other end of our state is the mayo clinic which I'm sure you are aware of. They have been involved in space medicine since 1960 one research related to the course of gravity influence the position of seats for the mercury spaceflight program and most recently they have identified some important research in the field of aging regenerative medicine that can be conducted in space.
▶ 1:48:55Sen. Klobuchar: How will you continue to support nasa and mayo's efforts to advance science that helps here on earth?
▶ 1:49:01Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I couldn't agree with this area of study more. We are actually quickly reaching a point where it is no longer a technological limitation for deep space type missions, but it is human physiology and psychology, so in that respect I fully support all the studies that can be done so that when the day comes that we actually send nasa astronauts to mars, that they can come home healthy enough to tell us about it.
▶ 1:49:30Mr. Isaacman: This is probably the single greatest accomplishment we have had on the international space station over the last quarter-century is keeping humans alive in an environment that is quite challenging.
▶ 1:49:41Sen. Klobuchar: Just on the research side, a lot of academic institutions like the university of minnesota rely on publicly funded data from nasa commissions. The commercial data is not easily accessible to researchers. You want to have the public institutions be able to access that data.
▶ 1:50:13Sen. Klobuchar: I'm not going to go through all the inventions of things that have come out of this type of space mission. What steps will you take to ensure that data continues to remain available for researchers across the country.
▶ 1:50:27Mr. Isaacman: Highs will he support it. This goes to some of the questions from senator markey before. I think nasa should be making available all of its data, especially its earth observation data so they can draw their conclusions from it. I don't think it is most helpful every four or eight years when certain scientific positions become overly political.
▶ 1:50:57Mr. Isaacman: I think we should make that data available and let scientists and research draw their own conclusions.
▶ 1:51:04Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you very much. Mr. haines, congratulations on your nomination. We have many manufacturers in my state. We do a huge amount of trade not just in the act area where we are fourth in the country for aggie experts but throughout our industries, could you talk about data that the department of industry analysis can provide congress with the price impacts of things?
▶ 1:51:33Sen. Klobuchar: We are obviously concerned about tariffs.
▶ 1:51:35Mr. Haines: Thank you, senator. I would say a few things. We usually provide data that provides flows and sectoral competitiveness.
▶ 1:51:53Mr. Haines: Providing broad economic data in terms of labor statistics or anything like that, any data that we do have on specific sectors in your state, having to discuss those with you and your staff and by the way thank you to your staff for meeting yesterday to understand more about your priorities. Absolutely I can commit to you it's confirmed that I will provide the data that we do have.
▶ 1:52:17Sen. Klobuchar: Very good. My time is running out and I will put this in writing but I do a lot with brand usa and senator sullivan and I introduced major reauthorization of this and senator rosen over here cares a little bit about this, representing las vegas. And just anything you can do to strengthen programs like brand usa to ensure we continue to remain competitive with U.S.
▶ 1:52:48Sen. Klobuchar: Tourism and especially with world cup 2028, the 2028 olympics and other major events that are coming up.
▶ 1:52:57Mr. Haines: Yes, ma'am, senator, you have my commitment to do that. I have met with brand usa multiple times. We look forward to working with them in a collaborative effort to make sure that travel and tourism remains competitive.
▶ 1:53:13Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you.
▶ 1:53:15Chair Cruz: Thank you senator young.
▶ 1:53:18Senator Young: Thank you, chair. I think -- thank our nominee is so much for the interest in serving. Mr. isaacman, I enjoyed our breakfast some days ago and I expect to support your nomination. I very much appreciate your presence here. Mr.
▶ 1:53:37Senator Young: Haines, congratulations, the global economy is increasingly driven by cross-border data flows, digital services, and online platforms. U.S. firms are facing more foreign barriers such as data localization rules and discriminate or tory digital taxes.
▶ 1:53:59Senator Young: Within ita, industry and analysis is involved in tracking these digital barriers and advising on market access for U.S. providers. If confirmed, Mr. haines, how do you see in a's digital role on trade in evolving and what would be our top priorities for ita's work on open digital markets and cross-border data flows?
▶ 1:54:23Mr. Haines: Thank you for that question, senator young. Thank you for speaking with your staff yesterday. Within the deputy assistant secretary for services, we run two programs that run data progress -- privacy rules. U.S.
▶ 1:54:53Mr. Haines: Companies can opt into robust data protections. We then request that various countries recognize those rules and those standards.
▶ 1:55:09Mr. Haines: As we have been going through the bilateral trade agreements we have been making sure that cbp are is front and center in terms of what we want to hold our partners to in the digital space. Then the useu data privacy framework. We have started a program with the u.k.
▶ 1:55:35Mr. Haines: And the swiss that provides a very firm foundation in terms of allowing a free flow of personal data to and from the united states and those are good foundations we can expand upon, especially getting into the U.S.-eu trade agreements as secretary lutnick is heavily involved in and we will be supporting his efforts knowing that that will be a wonder stone of the agreement.
▶ 1:55:59Sen. Young: Thank you, Mr. haines. Mr. haines, on another matter, china's predatory practices in sectors like steel, critical minerals and advanced manufacturing have continued to put sustained pressure on U.S. companies.
▶ 1:56:20Sen. Young: Inside ita, industry and analysis brings together trade policy analysis so it sees what companies are experiencing and how the rules of the system are working in practice. If confirmed, what are a few concrete things you would build or change inside I&a to sharpen ita's china work? For example specific analytic products, priority sectors, or support for a trade agreement and or cement?
▶ 1:56:51Mr. Haines: Thank you, senator. Our current work is mapping critical mineral supply chains. This is the key issue that the president and secretary lutnick are laser focused on solving. We are currently providing mapping information.
▶ 1:57:21Mr. Haines: We are working on of the processing and refining side of the equation given in that sense china dominates the supply chains. We will continue to work with the white house let investment committee to ensure we not only understand the supply chains but are able to secure them and thus secure a number of different sectors that are downstream. If confirmed, that would be one of my main focuses, to continue that work and help to secure the supply chains.
▶ 1:57:52Sen. Young: Since your point of emphasis on critical minerals, maybe you can speak to this. I have advocated that our country developed a national economic security strategy. This would be an analog to our national defense strategy. A subset of an economic security strategy would be a strategy for critical mineral resilience and sourcing on an ongoing basis.
▶ 1:58:25Sen. Young: Might I&a play a role in a development of a written strategy subject to scrutiny but ultimately some measure of consensus around what the policy is so we could develop a policy that would endure beyond this administration just as we do three national defense strategy?
▶ 1:58:45Mr. Haines: Yes, I would imagine any strategy like that would probably be in national security and defense strategy and if something like that were to come into existence I would imagine my support would be asked for to develop that and if I'm confirmed, I would be delighted to do so.
▶ 1:59:09Sen. Young: Well, great. I hope we will have an opportunity to work together on that broader matter which I agree would have to come from the white house. I know they are listening so I thought I would bring it up. I expect I will be supporting your nomination and thank you for answering my questions. Chairman?
▶ 1:59:29Chair Cruz: Senator rosen.
▶ 1:59:32Senator Rosen: Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you to the witnesses for taking us to space and a little bit more nevada-specific because we have a proud graduate of university of nevada, reno here who knows a lot about critical resources and tourism in our state and I fully support working on a national strategy because nevada has some of the largest critical mineral deposits in the country.
▶ 2:00:00Senator Rosen: So we are very mineral-rich as you know and thank you for being here but I'm going to focus a little bit on tourism. I'm going to bring us down to earth and ask about my travel and tourism work and some of the bills we have had because in 2023i had a bipartisan bill, the omnibus travel and tourism act was signed into law and that created the assistant secretary of travel and tourism at the department of commerce.
▶ 2:00:31Senator Rosen: It is a first tourism dedicated to second -- assistant secretary in the united states and is responsible for setting annual visitation goals, creating whole of government strategies to ensure that there is interagency coordination's to support U.S. tourism which I would argue is a top economic driver of every state in our nation. The office will reduce barriers to travel and leverage new technologies to make travel safer and more efficient.
▶ 2:01:02Senator Rosen: Despite the critical importance of this role, the tourism industry continues to face significant challenges amid global uncertainty and position remains vacant. Moreover, there was no deputy assistant secretary for travel and tourism in lace either.
▶ 2:01:19Senator Rosen: As a result, the national travel and tourism office is led by an acting deputy assistant secretary further underscoring the leadership gap in this space and it means tourism remains a sub office though critical to our national economy, remains a sub office overseen by the assistant secretary for industry and analysis position for which you are nominated rather than buy a new assistant secretary dedicated solely to focusing on the ecosystem and it is an ecosystem, it is weather,
▶ 2:01:49Senator Rosen: Infrastructure, workforce, it is broadband, we could go on and on. Someone who focuses on this strategy for our economic growth. Mr. haines, fully implementing the omnibus tourism and travel act are essential to strengthening our travel and tourism sector, our business sector, so can you speak to the importance of prioritizing travel and tourism, the substantial benefits towards an industry that provides the economic impact tourism and
▶ 2:02:19Senator Rosen: Business travel provides and how will you support that if confirmed and until such time as we can get an assistant secretary for travel and tourism?
▶ 2:02:28Mr. Haines: Thank you, senator rosen. I knew I could expect a robust question from you. [laughter] yes, ma'am. First, you will be happy to know that our deputy assistant secretary will start in january probably and he is going to be absolutely excellent, we are excited to have him and he will be spearheading a lot of the work.
▶ 2:02:55Chair Cruz: Bring him --Sen.
▶ 2:02:58Rosen: Bring him to our office so we can meet him?
▶ 2:03:02Mr. Haines: Absolutely. I would love to have the same invitation.
▶ 2:03:07Sen. Rosen: Absolutely.
▶ 2:03:09Mr. Haines: One would be to modernize the survey for international air travelers. It is currently done by hand. We only get about 100,000 surveys of international leaders , well short of the 1% mandate by this committee.
▶ 2:03:29Mr. Haines: We just put out a competitive bid a few months ago to digitize and automate that, hopefully getting more insight into robust tourism trends and hopefully come up with better strategies at a more granular level to attract visitors. The second piece would be we are rolling out a new tool this month hopefully and if confirmed I would love to talk to about it.
▶ 2:03:58Mr. Haines: It is going to be a 50 state travel and tourism competitive matrix to where we currently understand where the united states fits in terms of global travel and tourism. This would be able to say the state of nevada ranks number nine and attractiveness because they look -- like the food and entertainment, but international visitors that the weather was bad, you name it, and be able to
▶ 2:04:28Mr. Haines: Come up with concrete recommendations to increase their competitiveness as a travel and tourism destination. We would like to roll this out far and wide.
▶ 2:04:39Sen. Rosen: I would like to collaborate with you on that and I have significant input that might be helpful to you. I would welcome you working with our team to make it as robust as possible. There are a lot of things that go into making this possible. There was a lot to talk about there. I appreciate that.
▶ 2:05:01Mr. Haines: Yes, ma'am, senator rosen. On the assistant secretary piece , the president nominated someone. I will say with the bureaucratic minutia, the authorization is well-recognized. I know that secretary let puts high value on that. Still would need an appropriation to build it out.
▶ 2:05:27Sen. Rosen: We have appropriated the money in prior budgets.
▶ 2:05:35Mr. Haines: Currently our budget , within the 56 million dollar budget within I&a, I don't want to say there is no money in the banana stand, but we would be looking for an appropriation to build that out.
▶ 2:05:51Sen. Rosen: I see my time is up and I see senator cap at. Mr. isaacman, I will summit my questions on microgravity and other things for the record. Thank you.
▶ 2:06:07Senator Capito: I think most of my questions will go to Mr. isaacman, but Mr. haines I didn't want you to take that as a slight in any form or fashion. I've been a strong supporter of the growing west virginia, pennsylvania, ohio space economy for many years and believe this region perhaps best known for its energy and infrastructure powys -- prowess has a unique opportunity to emerge as a leader.
▶ 2:06:38Senator Capito: Mr. isaacson, as someone who has built successful businesses in pennsylvania, what role do you see working regionally that are not in texas. I'm glad senator cruz is not here, in shaping america's space industry?
▶ 2:06:58Mr. Isaacman: I really appreciate the question. As a resident of pennsylvania would love nothing more it will require contributions we need a
▶ 2:07:33Mr. Isaacman: Workforce from across the nation.
▶ 2:07:34Sen. Capito: I like the answer. The keystone space collaborative , when you have centers of excellence around participating in the manufacturing or the technology, you can have cooperative agreements, internships and other things to get that next.
▶ 2:07:56Sen. Capito: Yesterday, I was sent a letter sent to the chairman and ranking member where numerous former astronauts spoke in favor of your nomination. I spoke about one in particular I have great admiration for and I saw her name on the list. That is good enough for me.
▶ 2:08:23Sen. Capito: She's a remarkable astronaut woman and she came to west virginia with me and our young girls were awestruck by her. Congratulations on securing that letter. I want to talk about the katherine johnson facility located in bridgeport. This does the independent verification and validation. There is always this looming threat that all of this will get privatized.
▶ 2:08:55Sen. Capito: I would certainly argue for that facility being cost efficient and effective. I would like to talk to about this in greater depth when your nomination would you be willing to work with me on this?
▶ 2:09:19Mr. Isaacman: Absolutely, senator. I'm very grateful that an astronaut hall of famer like peggy signed a letter of support, it means so much, along with the other 35 astronauts who signed it. I'm very interested in taking that visit, ma'am.
▶ 2:09:37Mr. Isaacman: I think in a world that we all envision someday in the future so the reliance on mission control and hardware will diminish as we have more in poor decision-making and perhaps inclusion of ai onto some of our vehicles and satellites which will only in receipt importance in terms of the integrity of the software.
▶ 2:10:03Mr. Isaacman: We will continue to have a continuing role to support nasa and other agencies and the government as well.
▶ 2:10:10Sen. Capito: I would very quickly and this is not a short answer question, but as we see the pursuit of our space program and others around the world, the chinese in particular to try to get back to the moon, there is a lot of discussion on power generation on the moon. I don't know what your thoughts are here.
▶ 2:10:38Sen. Capito: I don't know if lunar surface power programs, I know it is talked about nuclear, but also solar, what are your ideas here and how far along are we on this?
▶ 2:10:49Mr. Isaacman: Senator, I love this topic so I could far exceed our time here. I'm very big in nuclear in space. There are numerous applications for it. There are propulsion applications. There are surface power requirements.
▶ 2:11:13Mr. Isaacman: We are going to need surface power to likely manufacture a propellant for missions to and from mars and certainly deeper exploration missions it is an area that I think is squarely within nasa's mission to be working on of the near impossible to do and attract many men like project programs.
▶ 2:11:40Sen. Capito: Thank you and thank you both for your willingness to serve.
▶ 2:11:47Senator Hickenlooper: Thank you, senator. Let me start with Mr. haines, I appreciate your, we followed the discussions about critical minerals. We want to make sure that is a bipartisan effort.
▶ 2:12:22Senator Hickenlooper: I will free -- relitigate, but this should be a bipartisan, high priority. I want to talk about telecommunications, cyberspace, ai, colorado has a dense ecosystem, it is a field of intense competition.
▶ 2:12:54Senator Hickenlooper: Between the united states and our rivals, our adversaries. As our capabilities mature in quantum sensing, quantum communication, computing, obviously, how can we ensure, how can you ensure that quantum technologies are only exported to trusted market?
▶ 2:13:16Mr. Haines: Thank you for that senator, question. Or sorry, think you for that question, senator. It does not play a role in export licensing.
▶ 2:13:37Mr. Haines: I will say we had and will continue to engage actively where those markets exist and understand national security implications of those technologies. Where they rank in stacked in terms of competitiveness with international competitors. We could provide that information to the bureau making their licensing decisions.
▶ 2:14:05Mr. Haines: We are not actively involved in any export licensing policy decisions.
▶ 2:14:13Sen. Hickenlooper: I appreciate that. The united states should be laser focused on retiring american astronauts to the moon. I think I'm still the only scientist in the senate who has provided peer-reviewed papers. Back in may, you answered some of our written questions.
▶ 2:14:48Sen. Hickenlooper: You want nasa to be a force multiplier for science, which I think is essential. Launching more probes and rovers. All of nasa science and exploration missions. Prioritizing these efforts is about identifying where the greatest breakthroughs are possible.
▶ 2:15:18Sen. Hickenlooper: You are dealing with a budget issue. Can you confirm where you believe nasa's scientific and exploration missions, are they complementary? Or do they end up becoming because of budget issues mutually exclusive?
▶ 2:15:36Mr. Isaacman: Senator, first, I think the scientific side of nasa is just as important as human exploration, as is our work in aeronautics and technology development. As I mentioned to some of the other senators before, I understand earlier this year we had a presidential budget request and I do support the president in the goal of reducing the deficit and ensuring the nation is on good footing, but that said, a lot has changed since then.
▶ 2:16:07Mr. Isaacman: This is something that if I am confirmed, I would love to get my arms around. Earlier this year, I understood that perhaps even the nancy rich telescope might not launch under the initial budget request.
▶ 2:16:22Mr. Isaacman: I've been informed that is no longer the case, so simply put I would love to know where we stand today, but as I told other senators, in terms of dollars allocated for the congress, we will absolutely maximize the scientific value of absolutely one of them.
▶ 2:16:43Sen. Hickenlooper: Is the goddard space flight center in a similar position? I know they are looking at potentially draconian changes to their budget.
▶ 2:16:55Mr. Isaacman: I would read the same things that other people do same things that other people dt same things that other people de scientific efforts of nasa.
▶ 2:17:06Sen. Hickenlooper: We agree. I appreciate that. I recognize the difficult choices tight budgets create an appreciate that. I'm out of time even though I'm left to be the chair. The compulsion is a must not curtail my questions but have a couple of more questions I will submit in writing. I appreciate both of your willingness to serve the country in these roles.
▶ 2:17:40Sen. Hickenlooper: My last question, which I'm not just allowed but required task of all nominees, if confirmed, do you pledge to work collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to this committee's request and to appear before the committee when requested?
▶ 2:18:01Mr. Haines: Yes.
▶ 2:18:03Mr. Isaacman: Yes read I don't think nasa can accomplish its mission without the support of congress.
▶ 2:18:10Sen. Hickenlooper: I think it has to be close. All the more so in these days of tight budgets. Thank you. I have literally dozens of letters in support from various organizations for both of your nominations. We ask unanimous consent these letters be inserted into the hearing record. Without objection, so ordered. Sorry, objections. When you control the room.
▶ 2:18:39Sen. Hickenlooper: Senators will have until the close of business on december 4 to submit additional questions for the record. The nominees will have until 11:00 a.m. On december 7 to respond to this questions. Quick turnaround but hopefully that dustup that you into difficult of a position -- that doesn't put you into difficult of a position. The committee stands are adjourned.