▶ 0:23:18Chair Moran: Good morning. The senate committee on science, commerce, and transportation will come to order. Welcome to today's hearing, oversight of the federal communications commission. The fcc plays a critical role in the lives of everyday americans. From tv and radio broadcasting to cellular and satellite communications and internet connectivity.
▶ 0:23:43Chair Moran: The commission sits at the center of services and technologies that power the daily lives of americans. Project american leadership and influence across the globe. Forming the backbone of our national economy. In other words, the work of the commission is kind of a big deal. So, I am pleased that we are joined today by our commissioners this healing.
▶ 0:24:14Chair Moran: And especially please that they agreed to be here and that this is the first fcc overwrite hearing that the committee has held since 2020. I believe that commissioner trusty was sitting right here staffing chairman wicker at that hearing. Commissioner, it is nice to see you have moved 30 feet to the other side of the dais. We have a lot of important ground to cover today.
▶ 0:24:44Chair Moran: The pace of change in just the last year, let alone since the last fcc oversight hearing by this committee, has been astounding. We have seen the deployment of 5g and early groundwork for 6g, major advancements in the satellite industry -- particularly the growth of low-earth orbit high-speed internet, ai, and seismic shifts across the media landscape.
▶ 0:25:10Chair Moran: We have seen the enactment of the president's working families tax cut act that reinstated spectrum auction of authority for the fcc for the next decade, but contained the largest single spectrum pipeline, eight hundred megahertz, ever enacted into law. This will raise billions of dollars for the taxpayer. It will stimulate billions more in private sector investment as U.S.
▶ 0:25:38Chair Moran: Companies bring faster and cheaper internet to more americans. It will lay the foundation for countless technological innovations. These benefits will be felt nationwide and, indeed, worldwide, across multiple generations of americans.
▶ 0:25:56Chair Moran: On day one of the new administration, the fcc under chairman car hit the ground running and already has an impressive list of accomplishments to show, including the delete delete delete docket that continues to clear out the regulatory underbrush, ensuring the integrity of the universal service programs and preventing fraud by illegal aliens, reforming the fcc's satellite
▶ 0:26:27Chair Moran: Licensing regime to help bolster america's position as the global leader in space commerce, stream lighting -- streamlining permitting to stream broadband buildout and moving at lightning speed to implement the new spectrum pipeline, teeing up 100 megahertz of valuable c band spectrum to be auctioned for commercial use in the near future. But, there is plenty more work to be done.
▶ 0:26:53Chair Moran: Given the rapid pace of evolution in technology and telecommunications, it is a wonder that the legal regime governing the issues and the role of the commission and regulating them has largely not been updated since 1996.
▶ 0:27:11Chair Moran: And there are any number of issues, from the utility of so-called public interest standards in the modern era to retransmission consent rules in the streaming era to the current media ownership caps, where a statutory update might be worthwhile. The world of today, with mobile computers in every pocket and artificial intelligence becoming exponentially more capable is markedly different from the time when cell phones were the size of footballs.
▶ 0:27:42Chair Moran: When gordon gecko walked on the beach holding a brick to the side of his head. And from the time when aol was the leading edge of internet connectivity. We live in a different world and it is worth considering whether congress should revisit the communications act and update it for the modern age.
▶ 0:28:06Chair Moran: On the public interest standard in particular, if my colleagues across the aisle do what many expect and hammer the chairman over their newfound religion on the first amendment and free speech, I will be obliged to point out that those concerns were miraculously absent when the biden administration was pressuring big tech to silence americans for wrong-think on covid and election security, underscoring a simple truth.
▶ 0:28:39Chair Moran: The public interest standard and its wretched offspring like news distortion have outlived whatever utility they once had and it is long past time for congress to pass reforms. I am grateful to our witnesses for being here today to talk about what the fcc is doing and how to address these issues. The energy and focus the chairman brought to the commission in just the first year has been productive and refreshing. I am excited for what the next several years will bring.
▶ 0:29:10Chair Moran: I now turn to the ranking member.
▶ 0:29:13Senator Cantwell: Thank you for convening this oversight hearing and thank you to our witnesses for being here. Fcc independence is central for free and diverse press, strengthening of national security, and bringing down the costs of telecommunications in media services. However, what we have seen this year, and costs that americans are facing, prices are rising.
▶ 0:29:40Senator Cantwell: The question is -- what is the chairman of the fcc and the fcc doing costs for consumers? The american people deserve an fcc that protects them from hidden fees and promotes affordability. The fcc, though, to my mind is doing the opposite by allowing consolidations that reduce competition and can help drive up costs. Americans are paying more than ever for streaming, cable, wireless services.
▶ 0:30:11Senator Cantwell: Streaming costs are up 13% this year. Basic cable has more than doubled in the last 10 years. Americans are paying more than almost any other country pork wireless. What is the fcc doing to help drive down the costs? Congress passed bipartisan legislation to ensure transparency in billing, but chairman car has proposed punching holes in those rules to implement that, making it easier for big corporations to tack on hidden fees to your internet bills and I have heard
▶ 0:30:42Senator Cantwell: Consideration from some groups saying that we should take spectrum away from broadcast television stations because maybe they are not getting enough use and maybe we should have even less competition. So, it is clear to me that the fcc needs to do everything to protect consumers, including from the harms of ai. Instead, I see in fcc that isn't focus enough on affordability.
▶ 0:31:10Senator Cantwell: That's why today we are releasing a snapshot report talking about why consolidation and reduce competition is driving up costs, so that hopefully we can ask questions about that and focus on what we need to do to keep local journalism, broadcasting, and to make sure we don't have undue influence. We now know that this issue, as related to jimmy kimmel, "the easy way or the hard way," is just an example.
▶ 0:31:43Senator Cantwell: I appreciate the chairman saying it was right out of goodfellas and dangerous as hell. I also appreciate the majority leader that it went too far. The question is, how do we now make sure that we continue to have not so much condyle that -- consolidation, because I know that chairman car has supported consolidation that makes it easier to have influence and to have less competition.
▶ 0:32:10Senator Cantwell: Local news and independent voices that are in suck -- and consolidation undermines that and drives up costs. What happens if a merger takes place and cbs and cnn are in the same boat? Will they continue to be the same competitive environment? What will we do to make sure consumers still have choice. Earlier this year chairman car green lit the sky dance acquisition of paramount but not before paramount agreed to pay in a lawsuit.
▶ 0:32:40Senator Cantwell: Using the fcc process should not be used in this kind of extortion process, but to focus on what will drive down costs and help consumers. People across the political spectrum agree, there are -- is too much control into few hands. Chris reddy talked about how local consolidation threatens news.
▶ 0:33:05Senator Cantwell: Chairman car, what are we doing to make sure that you are going to continue to protect local media ownership and grow this opportunity? We don't want to see content produced nationally for local broadcast. I am right now suffering from an unbelievable flood that has gone on for days and days and the latest challenge will be a blizzard. They are wall to wall with news henry of washington.
▶ 0:33:33Senator Cantwell: I would hate to see broadcast content interrupted or a station undermined to the point where they cannot do their job covering this unbelievable flood that is affecting almost every corner of our state. Beyond bringing down costs and protecting independent media, I am also concerned about safety.
▶ 0:33:56Senator Cantwell: Chinese intelligence or use -- orchestrated typhoon attacks that senator rubio described as the most disturbing is a widespread incursion into our telecommunications system in the history of the world. It should have led us to strengthen defenses. Instead, you roll back the salt typhoon rules, the only known regulatory response to the attacks.
▶ 0:34:24Senator Cantwell: In that rush to offload critical spectrum, it could undermine aviation readiness and safety. We outlined those concerns with secretary hegseth. I hope that today's hearing can have the proper oversight on these important issues. What are we doing not only to protect consumers from costs, but also on safety and security. It's an important time.
▶ 0:34:51Senator Cantwell: Not all of these issues happened in the last year, but clearly we need to do our job in continuing to help the american consumer get information in a competitive landscape and also drive down costs. Thank you to the chairman and I look forward to hearing from the witnesses.
▶ 0:35:07Chair Cruz: Our first witness is brendan carr, chairman of the fcc. He was designated on the 20th of 2025 by the president and has served on the commission since 2017. Our second witness, olivia trusty, commissioner at the fcc, nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate this past june. Our final witness is anna gomez, commissioner at the fcc.
▶ 0:35:37Chair Cruz: She has served on the commission since september of 2023. Chairman, you are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:35:45Mr. Carr: Chairman, ranking member, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to testify. It has been a busy and productive year at the fcc, with the agency focused on delivering great results for the country. I welcome the chance to join with my colleagues today in discussing the important work of the agency.
▶ 0:36:09Mr. Carr: While this is not my first time testifying before the committee, it is my first time appearing before you as chairman of the fcc. I want to thank the president for the honor of leading this exceptional agency. I also want to start by saying how proud I am of the dedicated staff of the fcc and everything they have accomplished for the american people. In my view, fcc public servants are the best in government.
▶ 0:36:35Mr. Carr: At the outset, I would like to applaud the important work that this committee has accomplished this congress. For instance, thanks to the chairman and his committee members, order has been restored through the trump working families tax cut act, a historic legislative accomplishment.
▶ 0:36:59Mr. Carr: In terms of the fcc's work, the agency has been following the strong leadership of the president and moved quickly to execute on ambitious reforms. We are advancing a build america agenda, concrete plans to unleash high-speed infrastructure bills, drive down prices for consumers, restoring the U.S.
▶ 0:37:22Mr. Carr: Leadership in wireless, reinvigorating the consumer protection work, including new efforts to crack down on illegal robo calls. Strengthening american national security with work underway tracking the leads of the senators. And we are empowering broadcasters to meet their public interest obligations. Lost my page for a second, there.
▶ 0:37:54Mr. Carr: Much of this represents significant change from the biden years. When I took over as chairman, the fcc faced several challenges. One, the biden administration allowed the U.S. to fall behind when it came to one of their most important features of economic strength, spectrum. The spectrum auction authority had lapsed two years earlier and the biden administration had failed to tee up a single new band for auction.
▶ 0:38:24Mr. Carr: The prior year spectrum strategy freed up exactly zero megahertz of spectrum. On top of this, permitting reform was going nowhere and the biden administration was laboring under heavy-handed prices that made it harder for builders to start earning profit. We had to turn things around and fast. Thanks to the leadership of the president, we are doing exactly that.
▶ 0:38:49Mr. Carr: As I detailed in my testimony, the fcc build agenda focuses on unleashing our national construction crews by advancing several roles -- goals. We are cutting red tape. Freeing up the airwaves necessary for america to lead the world again. Indeed, we now have a massive new spectrum pipeline and are working on multiple new auctions .
▶ 0:39:17Mr. Carr: The fcc just voted on a proposal to auction up to 180 megahertz in the upper see them. For another, we are boosting the american space economy. And in all of this, we are already seeing results. One carrier just announced that they lit up spectrum access this year for over 23,000 cell sites in record time, boosting 5g speeds by up to 80%. The president and the fcc build agenda are also delivering for american workers.
▶ 0:39:50Mr. Carr: Providers are adopting faster payment cycles and fair pricing, closing loopholes that allow foreign groups to swoop in and undercut U.S. workers, improving safety. Finally, the fcc is now pursuing the largest deregulatory effort in the history of the agency.
▶ 0:40:09Mr. Carr: Today we have teed up for removal over 1000 rules or regulations and terminated a record 2000 in active proceedings. Eliminating costly regulations is a part of our affordability work. For instance, we shut down a biden era plan that could have spiked the price of internet for millions of americans living in apartments by up to 50%.
▶ 0:40:36Mr. Carr: And in many ways, we are just getting started. I look forward to continuing to deliver on this important agenda and I look forward to that opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:40:49Chair Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 0:40:52Commissioner Ms. Olivia: Trusty?
▶ 0:40:53Ms. Olivia: Chairman -- commissioner trusty?
▶ 0:40:56Ms. Olivia: Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. It's been six months since I was sworn in as a commissioner and in that time I have had the cup -- privilege of working on policies to expand access to high-speed connectivity and enhance the resilience of national communication networks, restoring -- restoring U.S. leadership and communication technologies.
▶ 0:41:23Ms. Olivia: Critical to my work has been the opportunity to travel across the country and around the world to hear directly from broadband providers, tower engineers, splicers, consumers, and our international partners and allies.
▶ 0:41:38Ms. Olivia: Whether it is in jackson, mississippi, alaska, or oz or mei xiang, I heard about the state of the communications marketplace and how access to fixed and mobile connectivity delivers on the promise of job creation, technological innovation, and economic prosperity. In jackson, mississippi, I saw how proud -- broadband delivers quality lifesaving care straight into the homes of the people.
▶ 0:42:06Ms. Olivia: Doctors at the university medical center are treating chronic illnesses, managing high risk pregnancies, and delivering mental health care by video to rural communities that would otherwise go without these essential services. In alaska, I saw how access to broadband is transforming lives. These towns are home to some of the most rugged and hard to reach terrain.
▶ 0:42:33Ms. Olivia: Broadband is enabling natives and non-natives to contribute to and benefit from the global digital economy while maintaining their treasured culture and way of life. This fall, I traveled to azerbaijan to represent the united states at the international telecommunication union world telecommunication development conference.
▶ 0:42:55Ms. Olivia: There the ministers and regulators around the globe highlighted their progress on closing the digital divide infused the form to seek guidance and leadership on maximizing efficiency, building trusted networks with secure supply chains, and building a regulatory environment that invites innovation, investment, and competition while protecting consumers and enhancing public safety.
▶ 0:43:25Ms. Olivia: These are issues up front at the fcc in every proceeding, informing what guides my work, universal connectivity, network resilience, and U.S. leadership. Ensuring that every american has access to services has been our core mission since the founding. Following my confirmation, the supreme court confirmed of the constitutionality of the universal service fund. I commend the bipartisan bicameral U.S.
▶ 0:43:52Ms. Olivia: Working group for taking the initiative to identify reforms and make sure sustainability and continued support for the operation and maintenance of communications networks in rural and remote areas. In an era of growing digital hostility, achieving universal connectivity requires increased focus on the deployment of trusted and resilient network infrastructure.
▶ 0:44:17Ms. Olivia: Our communications networks are the backbones of our economy and defense. From robo call scams to foreign-made network performance and copper theft, threats are evolving rapidly. Recent commission actions to remove foreign adversary labs from our equipment authorization process and block illegal robo calls from exploiting american consumers and guarding commitments from broadband providers to harden their infrastructure while allowing us
▶ 0:44:48Ms. Olivia: To maintain agility in responding to new and emerging threats. U.S. leadership and next generation technologies, 6g, ai, emerging commercial services in outer space, and more, hinges on our ability to provide infrastructure to every corner of the country.
▶ 0:45:07Ms. Olivia: Thanks to the president and the leadership of the chairman, and to the members of this committee , the general spectrum function of authority has been restored, along with the creation of long-term spectrum pipelines. Positioning america to lead in wireless communication and beyond.
▶ 0:45:26Ms. Olivia: Our continued success will ultimately be determined by a domestic and international regulatory environment that emphasizes innovation, competition, and global cooperation. Importantly, U.S. leadership is not inevitable, it must be earned.
▶ 0:45:44Ms. Olivia: I look forward to working with members of the committee and interagency partners to make sure the united states is positioned to capture first mover advantages in the technologies that will define the future of our economic and national security. Thank you again for this opportunity to testify and I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:46:03Chair Cruz: Commissioner gomez?
▶ 0:46:05Ms. Gomez: Thank you. Chairman, ranking member, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. As commissioner, my priorities centered on expanding reliable and affordable connectivity to every community, maintaining U.S.
▶ 0:46:23Ms. Gomez: Leadership through smart spectrum policy, presuming -- preserving localism, and making sure that communicators have the tools to reach the public when it matters most. These are long-standing bipartisan goals and are the areas where I hoped we would be spending our time and energy in a shared commitment.
▶ 0:46:47Ms. Gomez: Instead, over the last 10 months the commission has taken a markedly different approach that has undermined its reputation as an expert driven regulatory body . Nowhere is the departure more concerning than in the actions to intimidate government critics, pressure media companies, and challenge the boundaries of the first amendment. It is precisely because of these concerns that I launched a first amendment tour this year, traveling across the country to hear directly from communities. My goal was simple.
▶ 0:47:18Ms. Gomez: Listen, engage, and reaffirmed that the work of the fcc must remain grounded in constitutional principles and public trust. I have found myself aligned with voices from across the spectrum united by a shared belief that the first amendment is fundamental to democracy and worth defending. Even when doing so is politically inconvenient. In that spirit, I want to thank the chairman for speaking out in defense of the first amendment and is continued engagement in this.
▶ 0:47:48Ms. Gomez: One thing that I learned during these conversations is that when the fcc strays from the core mission, consumers pay the price and the reality is higher costs, fewer voices and choices with missed opportunities to expand access across communications ecosystems. One clear example of where congress and the commission have been aligned is spectrum policy and I want to thank congress for restoring the spectrum option authority.
▶ 0:48:17Ms. Gomez: It's an important step towards expanding capacity, promoting competition, and maintaining U.S. leadership in wireless innovation. When done properly, it lowers costs for consumers and fuels economic growth. Yet spectrum is only a part of the story. Millions of households have faced rising broadband costs following the lapse of the affordable connectivity program with little action from the commission focused on affordability or consumer relief.
▶ 0:48:47Ms. Gomez: These missed opportunities reflect a troubling lack of focus on the everyday challenges that consumers space -- face in accessing and affording essential communications services. Beyond missed opportunities, the fcc has taken affirmative actions that raised costs and reduced choice for consumers, actions that contributed to the loss of a potential fourth contract -- fourth competitor on the national wireless front, weakening competition and increasing the risk of higher prices.
▶ 0:49:16Ms. Gomez: At the same time they reversed the work previously done under congressional mandate to lower the costs of prison communications and chose to increase the costs of phone and video calls, leaving some of the most vulnerable families paying excessive rates to stay connected with loved ones. The affordability concerns are especially acute in the media landscape. The fcc advanced plans to allow billion-dollar media companies to grow even larger at the expense of local news and community driven reporting.
▶ 0:49:47Ms. Gomez: This at a time when major media companies are already consolidating across broadcasting, streaming, and content production, raising serious questions about market power, editorial independence, and the future of community-based journalism. The cap is established by law and reflects congressional judgment about the importance of viewpoint diversity and localism.
▶ 0:50:13Ms. Gomez: Efforts to sidestep the statutory limit prevent -- present significant issues around the scope of the fcc authority and the consequences for those they regulate and serve. Whether in broadcasting or streaming, media consolidation should not erode the independence of the press or diminish the voices of local communities. I have always believed that the fcc does its best work when it honors the needs of the people it serves.
▶ 0:50:41Ms. Gomez: When it focuses on lowering costs, expanding opportunities, and protecting the ability of communities to communicate and be heard, it builds public trust and produces real benefits for consumers. I look forward to working with the committee to make sure that the fcc returns to that commission and continues to serve the american people with integrity and independence. Thank you, I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:51:06Chair Cruz: Thank to each of you. Chairman car, let's start with free speech. I think you would agree that the sec's public interest standards has been weaponize against conservatives in the past. In 2018, democrats try to pressure the fcc to use the public interest standard to stop sinclair broadcasting group from acquiring tribune media.
▶ 0:51:32Chair Cruz: In 2023, leftists sought to stop a routine renewal of a fox owned broadcast station over complaints about 2020 election coverage. Do you agree that was wrong?
▶ 0:51:46Mr. Carr: Yes, I agree. Those are all cases that where rather than following precedent, they broke from it and did it in a weaponized way.
▶ 0:51:57Chair Cruz: Another area of agreement between you and I is that jimmy kimmel is angry, overtly partisan, and profoundly unfunny. That is sadly true for most late-night comedians today who seem to have been collectively broken by the trump election.
▶ 0:52:20Chair Cruz: His remarks about charlie kirk were tasteless and a bc and its affiliates would have been within their rights to fire him or simply to no longer air his program. That was their choice. What government cannot do is force private entities to take actions that the government cannot take directly.
▶ 0:52:45Chair Cruz: Government officials threatening adverse consequences for disfavored content is an unconstitutional coercion that chills protected speech. This is why it was so insidious how the biden administration job owned social media into shutting down conservatives online over accurate information on covid or voter fraud. My democratic colleagues were persistently silent over that scandal.
▶ 0:53:16Chair Cruz: I welcome them, now having discovered the first amendment and the bill of rights. A democrat or republican, we cannot have the government arbitrating truth or opinion. Mr. chairman, my question is this.
▶ 0:53:37Chair Cruz: So long as there is a public interest standard, shouldn't it be understood to encompass robust first amendment protections to ensure that the fcc cannot use it to chill speech?
▶ 0:53:50Mr. Carr: I agree with you there. The examples that you laid out of weaponization during the biden years are perfect examples. The fox case that you mentioned was a renewal for a broadcast tv license. Petitioner sought the fcc not renewing it based on content that aired on a separate cable channel. In a cable context, that's different. There is no license or public interest standards. First and foremost, the fcc must hew to precedent.
▶ 0:54:21Mr. Carr: Democrats in congress did write letters to cable companies pressuring them to drop fox news, oann, and newsmax because they disagreed with the political perspectives of those channels and again, it was cable, no broadcast license or public interest standard. The fcc has to write within the corners of precedent to be consistent with the communications act and first amendment concerns as well.
▶ 0:54:44Chair Cruz: Let's shift to spectrum. One of the biggest economic and national security wins in the working families tax cut act was restoring the fcc auction authority and creating the largest spectrum pipeline, 800 megahertz of spectrum, in U.S. history.
▶ 0:55:04Chair Cruz: It won't just bring faster and cheaper wireless to consumers, but will also keep the united states competitive in the global six g race against communist china. I am encouraged that the fcc has already begun the process of freeing up potentially as much as 180 megahertz of c band and spectrum. Is the commission on track to meet the spectrum deadlines and fully deliver on the bill obligations?
▶ 0:55:33Mr. Carr: Yes and thank you to you for restoring that authority. We have fallen into a deep spectrum malaise during the biden years. Right now we are actively working with partners across government, the department of transportation, the faa, all aligned to deliver on the statutory deadline of july, 2027.
▶ 0:55:54Chair Cruz: What will the benefits to consumers be of 800 megahertz of spectrum being made for the private specter -- sector?
▶ 0:56:05Mr. Carr: When trump left at the end of his 45th administration, we had leapfrogged to china and were in a good position but then did not move forward with any new spectrum bands and china moved ahead. It's important for national security and for price for consumers. We can allow providers to compete for in-home broadband like this and when we do that we have seen cable modem prices drop by 37% for they used to have monopolies.
▶ 0:56:35Mr. Carr: It's good for innovation and for prices for consumers as well.
▶ 0:56:39Chair Cruz: Commissioner trusty, how does this pipeline and the working families tax cut help to position the U.S. for success at the 2027 world radio conference?
▶ 0:56:52Ms. Trusty: Thank you for the question and for your leadership in restoring the general spectrum auction authority and creating this long-term spectrum pipeline. The spectrum provisions are foundational to developing a unified strategy going into the next world radio communications conference, where we can focus on key U.S. interests and work with international allies in advance to preempt those seeking to undermine U.S. interests at the conference in shanghai, china.
▶ 0:57:22Ms. Trusty: In 2023 at the last conference, we didn't have this kind of legislative backing or support, didn't have auction authority or a long-term spectrum pipeline and were sidelined on very important conversations.
▶ 0:57:36Ms. Trusty: Now thanks to your leadership we can constructively and meaningfully engage in these conversations that I think position is better to come out of the conference with wins that are essential for economic and national security as well as global leadership in next communication technologies.
▶ 0:57:54Sen. Cantwell: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Commissioner carr, obviously salt typhoon was a major you tack on -- attack on united states infrastructure, exploiting the wiretap infrastructure built by law enforcement to track millions of americans, their location in real-time, phone calls, text messages, and according to senior officials, breached largely because the telecom companies didn't implement basic
▶ 0:58:25Sen. Cantwell: Cyber security measures, like not putting a patch in place or router vulnerabilities. At the beginning of the year the fcc issued a ruling to hold the fcc companies accountable, but the fcc rolled it back last month. Are these chinese hackers still in the american telecom system?
▶ 0:58:43Mr. Carr: Senator, thank you for the question. I read with you, salt typhoon should never have been allowed to happen. At the beginning of the year, the biden administration put forward a desultory ruling, but no rules themselves were adopted at the time and the fcc decision itself didn't go through the agency review process.
▶ 0:59:07Mr. Carr: When I spoke with the career intel officials then, they were urging me not to move forward with rulemaking but to work collaboratively indirectly with carriers to make sure they are taking real-time actions to address and remediate, which is what we've been doing.
▶ 0:59:22Chair Cruz: Do you think -- Sen.
▶ 0:59:26Cantwell: Do you think that there are still hackers of the system?
▶ 0:59:28Mr. Carr: Over the summer our director had remarks that were specific on this, the cyber director for the fbi saying that those hackers were largely contained and dormant in the networks, not actively infiltrating information. I would refer you to the fbi, the lead spokesperson on the issue.
▶ 0:59:48Sen. Cantwell: I know what the fbi recommended, they said that you should use signal, that everybody in america should get off of these systems and use other messaging services with encrypted calling. I don't think the issue was solved and I think that rolling back the rules that protect americans, in this information age, I think you need to have robust, robust security measures and make sure that the telecom industry is implementing them.
▶ 1:00:17Sen. Cantwell: Otherwise, we will continue to have these kinds of hacks on the system. So, I don't agree with the rolling back of these issues. I didn't want to bring up a second issue on costs. Miss gomez, you articulated this as it related to echostar --, I think, but I think it is bigger than this, there's a massive amount of consolidation in the marketplace. Someone had a chart back here, we pay the most and wireless costs. We pay second in the world.
▶ 1:00:49Sen. Cantwell: Most were second-most in broadband costs writ large. So, the question is, what are we going to do to drive down costs for consumers and how are these consolidations making it more challenging for us to give consumers real choice in the marketplace?
▶ 1:01:06Sen. Cantwell: I love spectrum and I want good international competition, I am more impressed with spectrum that doesn't interfere with dod or spectrum that helps expand into rural areas and drives down costs and am more impressed with spectrum policies that basically takes the low end of the market that doesn't have affordable costs and basically does something to help them participate in the market.
▶ 1:01:30Sen. Cantwell: Why give more spectrum if the telecom companies float and decide not to do the rules on security and then just become basically richer while the american consumer becomes poorer ? Again, this is just one example of how the united states is one of the most expensive countries. Could you help to explain a bit more on your thoughts on increasing competition and lowering costs?
▶ 1:01:57Ms. Trusty: Thank you -- Ms.
▶ 1:01:59Gomez: Thank you, senator. I'm a firm, -- believer in robust lower costs and am concerned that incentives in this country have been reduced in terms of leading to lower costs. As you raise affordability, I'm so glad you did. One of the things I'm very concerned about is the lack of program to provide affordable access to connectivity for consumers throughout this country.
▶ 1:02:28Gomez: We are spending billions of dollars in order to deploy networks in the hardest to reach areas, but we will not make sure they are sustainable if people cannot afford to actually purchase the service.
▶ 1:02:39Sen. Cantwell: Isn't that what has been wrong with it writ large? We sell it to the telco industry, they expand to the areas where they can have customers but not to the hard to serve areas or figuring out a price point that allows them to deliver service to expand to those 20 million or how many that don't have broadband.
▶ 1:03:03Ms. Gomez: Economic incentive is where the profits are and that's how government steps in.
▶ 1:03:08Sen. Cantwell: I don't think that the fcc is stepping in. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:03:13Chair Cruz: Senator fischer?
▶ 1:03:18Senator Fischer: Thank you, Mr. chairman, and to the commissioners for being here today. The fcc has been a fundamental building block in providing reliable communications and internet across the country and in the hardest to reach places. However, communications in the 90's looked very different than 2025.
▶ 1:03:41Senator Fischer: Chairman carrick, given that reality and ongoing legal challenges to the fund, would you agree that congress has a vital role in modernizing the U.S.?
▶ 1:03:51Mr. Carr: Thank you for your long-time leadership on these universal service issues. I have enjoyed the chance to work with you in your state and see the important work the service group has done and I commend the work ongoing in the senate on this issue and you are right, it's time for congress to take a fundamental look at the program to make sure it is fit for service in the coming years.
▶ 1:04:17Sen. Fischer: Do you have anything you would like to add, commissioners trusty and gomez?
▶ 1:04:22Ms. Trusty: Thank you for your leadership on these issues and you have been a longtime leader on these issues on connectivity. I agree that reforms for usf is very important. This is the cornerstone of the fcc mission to connect americans across the country and usf is a part of that effort.
▶ 1:04:41Sen. Fischer: Senator gomez, any comments about reforms?
▶ 1:04:46Ms. Gomez: So thank you, senator. Thank you for your leadership on this issue. It is very important for the senate to help us to make the universal service fund a sustainable program that ensures affordable access for all americans and I am really hopeful that what you are able to provide is that sustainable affordability program as a part of your, as a part of the
▶ 1:05:16Ms. Gomez: Reforms you put forward.
▶ 1:05:17Sen. Fischer: Thank you. As a cochair of the working group, I sent the commissioner -- the commission a letter earlier today that requested a briefing to help inform the congressional efforts in this regard. Chairman, will you commit to giving a briefing on the books in january for our staff and for the appropriate commission personnel?
▶ 1:05:38Mr. Carr: Looking forward to working with you was the issue.
▶ 1:05:41Sen. Fischer: Great, thank you. The U.S. role in shaping global communications policy is vital for countering foreign threats in the networks and all of the assets that they connect. Adding an element to this challenges the upcoming world radio communication conference that will take place in china. Commissioner trusty, what will be the biggest risks that it adds to a complex process?
▶ 1:06:11Ms. Trusty: Thank you for the question. Security is the biggest risk added to the process. As we work at the fcc to make sure that providers hold their commitments to patch outdated equipment and update their access controls and make sure that they are improving threat intelligence sharing to further harden networks, a part of the process will mean more partnerships to share information, educate providers on how to harden networks as
▶ 1:06:41Ms. Trusty: Well as we travel over to shanghai to participate in this conference. There needs to continue to be whole government conversations about how to protect the assets in this forum.
▶ 1:06:51Sen. Fischer: I would imagine that those are many of the things that you would take into account as the U.S. develops its positions at the conference. Correct?
▶ 1:06:59Ms. Trusty: Absolutely right.
▶ 1:07:02Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Senator cantwell brought up spectrum. I cannot let it go by without chiming in. There are a lot of decision-making ahead for the commission as it charts out spectrum resources for licensed and unlicensed use. I believe that balance needs to be the key here. We know that unlicensed and shared spectrum technologies carry up to 90% of U.S.
▶ 1:07:33Sen. Fischer: Communications each and every day. Commissioner trusty, moving forward, how should the commission ensure that shared technologies can continue to flourish and innovate? How do you preserve value between the different types of spectrum licensing when you strike a balance?
▶ 1:07:52Ms. Trusty: Thank you for this very important question, senator. The fcc has and all of the above approach when looking at spectrum in order to accommodate a variety of users and use cases for the technology.
▶ 1:08:07Ms. Trusty: The meteor -- media priority is the upper c-band, but we need more foreign license uses for wi-fi seven and eight to support the internet of things and other forms of connectivity benefiting all americans, as well as spectrum for satellite and space uses. We have the abundance proceeding where we are looking to make 20,000 megahertz available for outer space reasons. And we are looking more intensively at bands above the gigahertz band.
▶ 1:08:39Ms. Trusty: We need and all of the above approach to accommodate a variety of users in cases like this to advance leadership in the U.S. in these technologies.
▶ 1:08:47Sen. Fischer: Thank you very much, I look forward to having conversations with all of you in the future, thank you.
▶ 1:08:53Chair Cruz: Senator klobuchar?
▶ 1:08:58Senator Klobuchar: I would prefer to be asking questions on broadband, spectrum, and I will ask it in writing, but the events of the year have moved me to focus on free speech in our democracy.
▶ 1:09:14Senator Klobuchar: Chairman carper, in 20 you tweeted that political satire is one of the oldest and most important forms of free speech, using humor and challenging us to draw people into the discussion, which is why people in influential positions have always targeted for censorship. Do you still agree that political satire should be protected speech? Mr. carr: yes. Whatever it is over the public airwaves for broadcasters or is a public interest standard, news distortion rule.
▶ 1:09:44Sen. Klobuchar: You answered it yes.
▶ 1:09:47Mr. Carr: In a particular instance it was speech on social media where the biden administration was trying to shut down political speech, an area where there is no license or public interest standard.
▶ 1:09:59Sen. Klobuchar: We will get to that at a minute. I also believe there is no place in schilling political satire, but after the jimmy kimmel monologue he went on a podcast and suggested that abc should take him off the air saying that we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Those who are were words. Do you think it is appropriate to use your position to threaten companies that broadcast political satire?
▶ 1:10:24Mr. Carr: Any licensee that operates on the public airwaves has a responsibility to comply with public interest standards.
▶ 1:10:32Sen. Klobuchar: I asked if you think it is appropriate for you to use your position to threaten companies. This incident with kimball wasn't isolated. You have launched investigations into every major broadcast network except for fox. Is that correct?
▶ 1:10:50Mr. Carr: I don't know. We have investigations going on npr and pbs, there are a number of them. Stepping back over the years, the fcc has walked away from enforcing public interest standards and I don't think it's a good thing.
▶ 1:11:05Sen. Klobuchar: You brought up social media. Do you think it is appropriate after a human -- horrific murder and stabbing of rob reiner and his wife, do you think it is appropriate for someone to say that it happened when they had anger that he caused others through his massive, unyielding, incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as trumped arrangements is -- syndrome?
▶ 1:11:33Sen. Klobuchar: Known to have driven people crazy with his obvious paranoia reaching new heights? Do you think that's appropriate for the president to do that? If jimmy kimmel would have said that, would you have threatened to take him off the air?
▶ 1:11:47Mr. Carr: Democrats on the dais are accusing me of engaging me in censorship and now you are encouraging me to police speech on the internet?
▶ 1:11:55Sen. Klobuchar: I'm just asking if those are the kinds of words that are cruel. It hurts the president to say that kind of thing. It hurts him with trust and the american people. But this is the kind of stuff going on right now. Yet you are going after broadcast stations except for fox. Making threats.
▶ 1:12:15Mr. Carr: We are applying the law. Broadcast tv is fundamentally different than any other form of media. Cable, podcast, soapbox, man on the street, it's a public trustee model.
▶ 1:12:28Sen. Klobuchar: You think that there should be no rules in place when it comes to tech platforms, yet?
▶ 1:12:34Mr. Carr: There's no public interest obligation?
▶ 1:12:38Sen. Klobuchar: Here's one, last week the president came out with this dangerous and likely in the illegal ai rule that preempts all states from doing anything to try to save people, whether it is kids that are being exposed to content they shouldn't see or fentanyl, political videos that are lies, so do you think that congress has the authority to preempt state laws?
▶ 1:13:03Sen. Klobuchar: Or do you think that the president and agencies like yourself have the authority to preempt state law when it comes to the internet and safety with ai?
▶ 1:13:12Mr. Carr: With ai in particular the executive order is to initiate a proceeding and we are open-minded on where it goes. Want to step back and look at weaponization, we saw it for four years in the biden administration?
▶ 1:13:26Sen. Klobuchar: Joe biden is no lauder -- no longer president, you are ahead of the fcc and donald trump's president, we are trying to deal with this right now. What are the risks of the commission trying to preempt state laws when there are no federal guard because our colleagues, despite some good efforts, refuse to pass any kind of even minimal rules when it comes to ai? What are the risks of a commission or president trying to preempt state laws that can legally put state laws in place?
▶ 1:13:55Ms. Gomez: Thank you, senator. I believe that the fcc has dubious authority to preempt state laws in this case, because without a comprehensive federal framework, there is nothing for the fcc to preempt. The communications act did not actually talk about artificial intelligence or provide authority to the fcc to do that. I'm dubious of our authority to do that. That said, we have sought comment on it.
▶ 1:14:24Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you very much.
▶ 1:14:35Sen. Moran: German car, I sent you a letter in may -- chairman carr, I sent you a letter in may about competition with media giants. It is my local broadcasters that are at significant risk with competition from media giants, traditional and otherwise.
▶ 1:15:01Sen. Moran: In that letter, I described the impact of applying legacy media roles on local broadcasters versus national broadcasters. I want to reiterate this to you today. I firmly believe that local broadcasters are best suited to journalism, and print journalism is encountering even stronger headwinds.
▶ 1:15:30Sen. Moran: With local broadcasters, it has increased by orders of magnitude. Local broadcasters are hugely important to provide news, weather, and sports, and we need to make sure their viability is enhanced by ownership rules that the commission has talked about. I also want to talk about broadband mapping. It seems like déjà vu.
▶ 1:15:59Sen. Moran: When the maps were first provided to congress, it was clear they were damaging the florida. Congress passed and the president signed a data act which required the use of an analytics approach to data collection verification reporting.
▶ 1:16:18Sen. Moran: I appreciate the fcc's work to implement that legislation, including operationalizing broadband data using the national broadband map. On the occasion I get a compliment, it is usually followed by the word but.
▶ 1:16:40Sen. Moran: Everything I know from kansas providers is that wife -- while the maps themselves have been approved, providers still face an out dating and challenging process that makes it difficult to update the maps with the most recently available data. The circumstance is particularly concerning given the end tia's use of the fcc's data in assessing eligibility for services under broadband.
▶ 1:17:05Sen. Moran: I would encourage you to again continue to recover from the mapping process that includes a provement's -- improvements for those in kansas and across the country to make changes to the maps based upon the actuality and the reality of what we actually provide in-service to kansans. This is true of cellular and telephone service, and certainly in broadband.
▶ 1:17:33Sen. Moran: The telephone communications act of 1996 provided a statutory basis for the universal service fund that senator fischer has talked about. I served on her task force in a working group to make sure we better empower the fcc to deliver on its universal service mission. I appreciate the answers you provided to senator fischer about your willingness to work with us to accomplish that goal.
▶ 1:18:03Sen. Moran: Earlier this year, my colleagues and I sent you a letter encouraging the commission to take a balanced approach to the implementation of spectrum requirements. I described certain uses of spectrum bands, especially unlicensed users in the six gigahertz range. Again, you have addressed this previously in answers to questions from my colleagues, but I would highlight the importance of that balanced approach.
▶ 1:18:33Sen. Moran: I know in my conversation with you, comissioner trusty, what you said, that balanced approach regarding spectrum remains an important issue. Comissioner gomez, you and I have not had this conversation, but I would be happy to confirm that you agree with it.
▶ 1:18:55Ms. Gomez: Apologies. I'm happy to have that conversation.
▶ 1:19:00Chair Moran: Finally, federal broadband programs are encumbered by inconsistent coordination between entities that offer broadband services to american support for broadband services.
▶ 1:19:17Chair Moran: In april, a gao audit lamented federal investments that would require focused coordination. These programs are delivering appropriate levels of service. What specific actions is the fcc taking to coordinate the broadband deployment?
▶ 1:19:47Mr. Carr: This is a really important issue, as you indicated. 100 different broadband programs were spread out over more than a dozen different agencies that were entirely uncoordinated. Right now, we have a relationship across the ndaa, the nac, and broadband funding to make sure we are addressing some of this coordination that has been a challenge before.
▶ 1:20:15Chair Moran: Certainly, you are addressing them, and there will be a different outcome. Thank you very much. Thank you, chairman. >> senator schatz?
▶ 1:20:27Sen. Schatz: Thank you to all the commissioners. Thanks to the committee for conducting this hearing. Chairman carr, we have known each other for mainly -- for maybe 10 years now. I do not want to say it is normally mundane, but it is a technocratic role, nonpartisan. I am hoping we can do that again right here, but it is a more sensitive topic.
▶ 1:20:55Sen. Schatz: I'm going to ask a couple of yes or no questions. I will make a promise to you not to hector you for three or four minutes if you can give me a quick yes or no, quick explanations. Chairman cruz said I think it is unbelievably dangerous for the government to put itself in the position of saying we are going to decide what speech we like and what we don't, and we are going to threaten to take you off the air if we don't like what you are saying. Do you see this issue the same way as the chairman?
▶ 1:21:23Mr. Carr: My position is clear. We have a public interest standard that congress has put into the law. There are very specific rules and doctrines like the news distortion rule. It is my position and I think the trump administration position that we should be enforcing those rules and policies.
▶ 1:21:45Mr. Carr: Several shots so you think have jurisdiction under political interest standard on satire and the fair news distortion act? Do you have jurisdiction or not?
▶ 1:21:57Mr. Carr: We have jurisdiction with respect to the broadcast airways to ensure that their operations are in the public interest. There are very specific rules.
▶ 1:22:09Sen. Schatz: So if there is a determination at the federal communications commission that satire is not in the public interest, you believe you have the authority to revoke the license of the broadcaster?
▶ 1:22:23Mr. Carr: That's not my position at all. My position is --
▶ 1:22:29Sen. Schatz: Hold on. Let me clarify this.
▶ 1:22:31Mr. Carr: Satire is perfectly fine. What satire are we talking about? Where was the satire?
▶ 1:22:41Sen. Schatz: You are not the one asking questions. What is the fcc's standards for making this kind of evaluation about whether news has been distorted? My understanding this has been used eight times. This is rarely invoked, and there is a reason for that.
▶ 1:23:09Sen. Schatz: Yes, we have a statute that governs what the fcc is supposed to do. But basically the fcc has decided you need to get out of the business of refereeing what is offensive, and if something is indecent or obscene, that is one thing, right? If they are violating the terms of their broadcast license, that is another thing. If they just say I awful thing on the air, it seems to me, chairman, that is not your jurisdiction.
▶ 1:23:39Sen. Schatz: I know you understand this law backwards and forwards. I remember you when you were the council for chairman pai. I don't doubt your ability to race into how the architecture of the statute works. But I'm asking you, do you think it is appropriate for you to have an opinion at all in your official capacity about what a comedian says, as offensive as it may have been?
▶ 1:24:06Mr. Carr: Senator come up my job is to implement the law passed by congress, and congress has said that broadcast is a public interest standard.
▶ 1:24:19Sen. Schatz: Do you think there are any conservative commentators or conservative comedians or conservative satirists that ever say anything offensive that you would consider investigating?
▶ 1:24:30Mr. Carr: I'm not looking at things that are offensive or awful, to use your words. I'm looking at things that are consistent with the public interest, rules, and regulations.
▶ 1:24:41Sen. Schatz: I'm a little confused because it seems to me that in subsequent conversations after john thune and dave mccormick and others said this seems like a little much for you that you went out and said that was fake news. I did not do that. This is fake news. I'm not doing that. I'm not going after jimmy kimmel. And now you are saying you have a perfect right to go after jimmy kimmel. I am wondering which one it is?
▶ 1:25:05Mr. Carr: Democrats were saying we explicitly threatened to pull a license. That never happened. That is nothing more than projection and distortion. A steady broadcaster that uses the airways fast to comply with the public interest. And licenses are not sacred cows. Yes, you can do things to lose a license. But if you want to change that, that is up to congress. That is why we put the broadcast tv licenses up for auction.
▶ 1:25:36Mr. Carr: If you want to do that without public interest, I can do that.
▶ 1:25:42Sen. Schatz: You are tiptoeing through the tulips. You said they have a license granted by us at the fcc. That comes with an obligation to operate in the public interest. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take action, frankly, on kimmel, on kimmel, or there is going to be additional work for the fcc I had.
▶ 1:26:09Sen. Schatz: Chairman, my final comment is I have actually enjoyed our relationship. I have praised you behind your back as someone I disagree with, but a solid, knowledgeable person. This stuff at least up until last year has been out of character, and it will not age well. It will not age well on the conservative side of the aisle or the liberal side of the aisle. This is not american fcc behavior. I'm hoping we can recalibrate.
▶ 1:26:36Mr. Carr: Did you have an issue when senator markey told the fcc to investigate sinclair or their news activities?
▶ 1:26:44Sen. Schatz: I'm going to allow this because it -- because I was tough on you. I do not normally respond to questions from the witness. I did not sign that letter. >> thank you. I'm going to continue with the questioning and I appreciate all of you all being here at the fcc. A lot of my interests are really along the same lines as senator moran.
▶ 1:27:10Sen. Schatz: Representing a rural state, and underserved state in terms of connectivity, and some of the challenges we have had trying to get us to close the digital divide in a small state like west virginia -- chairman carr, he did talk about the mapping issue, and the issues of small providers, alleviating the barriers they have, and the possible penalties they might accrue if some of the maps are inaccurate, or if they are
▶ 1:27:40Sen. Schatz: Unable to -- they failed to serve locations that do not actually exist and are not residential, or they are business. Do you have the necessary data from the agencies to be able to have more accurate maps? As we get down to the nitty-gritty, where we are actually getting to the last house, the last home, this is going to really be important. Where are you with the maps and what sorts of formulations or improvements have you considered? This question is to all of you.
▶ 1:28:10Mr. Carr: Thank you, senator. We have been making real progress. The locations are starting to stabilize. We are seeing less of a percent change in terms of iterations of the map. One issue that is popping up recently that I'm hearing from you is the challenge process.
▶ 1:28:30Mr. Carr: Some could argue that the original provider would have incentives to overstate, and some would say the challenging provider would have incentives to overstate the challenge. We have regulation of that process but perhaps we need to do a better job of streamlining that. >> did you have something to say on the mapping?
▶ 1:28:49Ms. Trusty: One of the issues on the mapping is just how do you test whether or not broadband is available in a particular area. I know that fcc staff is working closely to make the process less costly.
▶ 1:29:06Ms. Gomez: I agree with my colleagues. We still hear complaints, of course, both of where areas are so underserved that they are not served, which is problematic. Every iteration makes it better, but it is still an issue.
▶ 1:29:29Ms. Gomez: >> a lot of these areas where smaller providers have a capacity issue -- anything that could spur that process would be very appreciated. Chairman carr, I appreciate the work. It is interesting to listen to the debate over the broadcasters in terms of consolidation and everything. I have a view similar to what senator moran expressed. In the rural areas, our local broadcasters are so essential.
▶ 1:29:58Ms. Gomez: He even mentioned the top 3 -- the weather, sports, local government. Try to preserve that local news as we have seen what has happened to our newspapers. Our broadcast is so very important.
▶ 1:30:15Ms. Gomez: We just had a food drive in -- and our local television providers did this, and publicized it, so that it was much broader and bigger than it would have been without that local flavor and that local input and involvement. A number of senators wrote to you to ask what you are doing to ensure that local broadcasters are able to compete in this changing landscape. I think he mentioned that ann mentioned the letter.
▶ 1:30:45Ms. Gomez: What is the update on the proceedings the commission started?
▶ 1:30:49Mr. Carr: Thank you, senator. We are very open-minded as to how to resolve that proceeding. I think this is actually one area where I heard some strong alignment between me and ranking member cantwell. She talked about the importance and value of local news, particularly when there is natural disasters. One thing I'm trying to do with media policy as a general matter is to re-empower those local broadcasters to invest in local news.
▶ 1:31:16Mr. Carr: Over the years, you have consolidation of power international programmers, comcast, disney, and others. Effectively, a lot of local broadcasters are just mouthpieces for that national program made in hollywood. I'm not sure that is going to be consistent with the public interest. When it comes to a national disaster for instance. One of the things we are looking at with this media consolidation -- is it consistent with our goal of constraining the power of some of these national broadcasters?
▶ 1:31:46Mr. Carr: >> I will be interested to hear what happens there. I will say as a compliment when I first started in this role, and I'm very active with rural broadband, there was a lot of confusion in the state such as mine -- who is covering this area? Can reconnect go? You even mentioned more programs than I even had a concept of that are still trying to connect that last home and last line.
▶ 1:32:15Mr. Carr: We are hearing less about the lack of coordination between all these different entities. Particularly at the federal level. And I think that is extremely important. Number one, we don't want to overbuild. But we don't want to under build and we don't want to squash innovation. I thank you all for your efforts on that.
▶ 1:32:36Mr. Carr: I think it has been very helpful, and I appreciate that you were going to keep working on that, because I think that will make the dollars move quicker and connectivity come faster. With that, I will recognize senator markey.
▶ 1:32:49Sen. Markey: Chairman carr, you are not reinvigorating the public interest standard. You are weaponizing the public interest standard. That is what the carr fcc is doing. Behind me are your past tweets, declaring your commitment to the first amendment.
▶ 1:33:13Sen. Markey: You defended political satire, saying in 2022 it challenges those in power and that is why people in influential positions have always targeted it for censorship. That is what your threats against abc and disney over jimmy kimmel's monologue were so outrageous. This is what you said. In september of 2025 as the chairman of the fcc -- we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
▶ 1:33:38Sen. Markey: These companies can find ways to change conduct, or take action, frankly, on kimmel, or there is going to be additional work for the fcc, I think. That statement was roundly condemned across the political spectrum. Chairman cruz called it dangerous as hell. Chairman carr, do you regret making that statement, yes or no?
▶ 1:33:59Mr. Carr: Senator markey, thank you for the question. My job is to enforce the law as passed by congress. That includes the public interest standard. Broadcast tv is fundamentally different from any other media.
▶ 1:34:13Sen. Markey: Do you regret making that statement?
▶ 1:34:15Mr. Carr: My job is to enforce the law.
▶ 1:34:19Sen. Markey: So you do not regret making that statement? That is a refusal of culpability for your language, for your use, your abuse of power. You will not say that you made a mistake. For example, in your response to my oversight level -- letter in september on the kimmel incident, he repeatedly stated that the media companies made their own decisions in preempting and suspending kimmel.
▶ 1:34:46Sen. Markey: You seem to think that your words, the most powerful communications regulator in america, especially your threats, it don't matter. So just to be clear, your position is that your mafia threats have nothing to do -- next starr, sinclair, and disney decisions to preempt and suspend kimmel. Is that your position? Is that your point, that you had nothing to do with the suspension of kimmel?
▶ 1:35:15Mr. Carr: Senator, you look at the evidence, the expressed statements from every company from neck starr to sinclair to disney as recently as last week. They made these business decisions on their own. The record is clear on this.
▶ 1:35:30Sen. Markey: You are refusing to take accountability for your own words. You intimidate the companies. They do what you want. And then you say it was up to them. Not a chairman of the federal communications commission. Actually, now the chairman of the federal censorship commission. The broadcasters feel that censorship. You have brought authority over the media industry, especially broadcasters. Your words and actions matter.
▶ 1:35:57Sen. Markey: I'm going to give you another chance to take culpability for your actions. In 2022, you said a newsroom's decision about what stories to cover and how to frame them should be beyond the reach of any government official not targeted by them, targeted by government officials. Do you stand by that statement?
▶ 1:36:19Mr. Carr: This was a letter written by house democrats to cable companies, pressuring them to drop fox news, oann, and newsmax.
▶ 1:36:31Sen. Markey: Do you stand by your statement?
▶ 1:36:33Mr. Carr: Yes, I do, what the democrats did there.
▶ 1:36:37Sen. Markey: I want to get your own views out there. So in february, under your leadership, the federal communications commission opened an investigation into a san francisco radio station over its coverage of a federal immigration rate. An fcc investigation is a big deal for a local station. In a worst-case scenario, the fcc could shut down the station by revoking its license.
▶ 1:37:03Sen. Markey: In fact, you have repeatedly suggested over the past year that the fcc could revoke station licenses. Yet this investigation was based solely on the news content of the radio station's coverage of an immigration rate. I have the entire new statement that they put out that day. This happens every day, everywhere across the country for broadcast journalists.
▶ 1:37:30Sen. Markey: This investigation was based solely on this very brief statement that is in everyday coverage. I have the transcript. The anchor was literally reporting on the information that was released by the mayor, by the local city council member, and a community group. So you are telling me that reporting on statements from public officials and a community group is grounds for an fcc investigation?
▶ 1:37:54Mr. Carr: Senator, the concern there in the report was that there may have been interference with lawful ice operations, and so we were asking questions about what had happened. This is a period of time when ice agents were being attacked. Their undercover locations were being disclosed.
▶ 1:38:12Sen. Markey: There is nothing in here that discloses anything. There is no risk to anyone. The risk that is posed as to the broadcast journalist's coverage. The news journalists were just covering an important new story. Some conservatives were upset by the coverage. So you used your power as fcc chairman to hang up the sword of damocles over a local radio station.
▶ 1:38:39Sen. Markey: And that is precisely what you warned about in 2022, the government targeting a newsroom's editorial decision. Guess what happened? The station demoted the anchor who first read that news report over the air and pulled back on his political coverage. You got what you wanted. One former journalist at the station said the chilling effect does not begin to describe the neutering of our political coverage. That is what you wanted. That is what you got. It affected stations everywhere.
▶ 1:39:10Sen. Markey: Let me say again, the neutering of our political coverage. This is government censorship, plain and simple. Was it a mistake, in retrospect, for you to say that and instigate an investigation of that san francisco radio station? Was that a mistake?
▶ 1:39:27Mr. Carr: Senator, broadcasters understand they are going to be held accountable to the public interest, to the news distortion policy. I think that is a good thing. In 2018, you signed this letter --
▶ 1:39:42Sen. Markey: -- you are here right now. You are here --
▶ 1:39:47Mr. Carr: Investigate some things --
▶ 1:39:51Sen. Markey: You are here right now -- madam chair, please.
▶ 1:39:56Mr. Carr: None of them were renewed after your letter. >> chairman carr. Chairman carr. You are well over your time. It is not because I looked at the clock and you are over two minutes.
▶ 1:40:12Sen. Markey: He is turning the federal communications commission into the federal censorship commission. It is a betrayal of the fcc's mission. Mr. chairman, you are creating a chilling effect on broadcasts. >> there are a lot of people on this committee. Mr. carr, please let's move onto the next question. Senator sullivan?
▶ 1:40:35Sen. Sullivan: I thank madam chair and Mr. chairman. I'm going to turn back to the topic that senator o and the chair were talking about, and that is rural broadband, which is really important to so many of us. There is rural broadband. Mr. chairman, as you know, then there is alaska, which is super rural.
▶ 1:41:02Sen. Sullivan: I want to commend you in particular on your sustained focus on my state during your tenure, first as a commissioner, now as a chairman. You, comissioner trusty, comissioner gomez, all the fcc commissioners come up to alaska. I just want to give some statistics which I think are important.
▶ 1:41:27Sen. Sullivan: The alaska connect fund order from the fcc through 2023 -- this is according to the fund order that was in front of the commission. The alaska plan helped deploy and upgrade broadband to more than 96 thousand previously unserved locations, delivered new or improved 4g lte for better wireless services to roughly 65,000 alaskans, and laid the groundwork for the alaska connect fund to carry
▶ 1:41:59Sen. Sullivan: That success forward with added flexibility. So I want to thank the fcc's leadership. In particular, you, Mr. chairman . Who has enabled this strong coordination with other federal programs, and to help what is in the law, which is to be able to connect all americans to broadband and internet connectivity regardless of if you live in a city in the lower 48 or a rural native village in alaska.
▶ 1:42:27Sen. Sullivan: Can you speak to how this alaska-specific approach has helped drive these outcomes, which have been very positive, and by continuing this model is so important for connecting rural and remote alaskans? Again, Mr. chairman, I know you have taken a lot of incoming. I want to compliment you on the good work you have done as chairman and as a commissioner on the issues of focusing on my state.
▶ 1:42:53Sen. Sullivan: There are americans who have very challenged communications issues because our state is so big and remote. And I think you have done an exceptional job. Can you talk to those issues?
▶ 1:43:05Mr. Carr: Thank you, senator. Frankly, I don't think people understand the change in trajectory that you have brought to alaska in terms of connectivity. I remember the first time you had me come to alaska, which I agree with you is the only way to understand the challenges that are up there. Frankly, in my view, I don't think the fcc had been taking the appropriate lawful approach with respect to alaska. >> and this is not some earmark.
▶ 1:43:32Mr. Carr: It is in the law, required for all americans, and my constituents are americans.
▶ 1:43:38Mr. Carr: You brought that to my attention and I had a chance to visit an island way out in the ocean. There was talk about maybe bringing an undersea cable across the oceans, but the planes were getting scuttled because of uncertainty caused by the fcc's, in my view, misapplication of the communications act. You worked with the agency over a period of time, with diligence, and corrected that. That created the stability to be able to see that investment.
▶ 1:44:09Mr. Carr: Phase one of the undersea cable is complete and alaska is being connected through nexgen high-speed internet thanks to that. There is a phase two that is coming. A subsequent visit took me to a small village which can only be reached by boat. It was a place that had been long left behind in terms of the digital divide. We had a multibillion-dollar effort to close the divide, but it was not even on the national broadband map. The fcc acted.
▶ 1:44:38Mr. Carr: It was like it did not even exist. >> from their perspective, it did not exist. It was not on the map. You and I were in a town hall and we said according to the maps in D.C., this town and all you people from alaska don't exist. I'm glad you mentioned that.
▶ 1:44:57Mr. Carr: There is obviously a long way to go still, but the digital divide has been closing in alaska. And I do not think we would be in the position where we are in alaska now with connectivity but for the leadership you have had on this committee. >> it has been your leadership and others. I think comissioner trusty, comissioner gomez. It is an issue I think that unites the fcc, all the commissioners.
▶ 1:45:23Mr. Carr: Can you quickly, maybe each one of you very quickly, speak to how the fcc's alaska-specific funding frameworks, including the alaska connect fund, will help ensure that projects like the one you just mentioned -- if you look at a map, this is the aleutian island chain. It goes way out in the pacific. It actually crosses the international dateline, which a lot of people don't know. But these are americans out there.
▶ 1:45:50Mr. Carr: It is a very strategic part of our country, close to china, russia, japan, and our allies. I'm running out of time here. To just help the specific programs to continue delivering reliability in terms of connectivity in rural, remote parts of the state, can I just get your commitment to continue working on that?
▶ 1:46:10Ms. Trusty: Absolutely.
▶ 1:46:11Ms. Gomez: Yes, senator. >> senator baldwin?
▶ 1:46:18Sen. Baldwin: I need to echo the concerns of my democratic colleagues. Chairman carr, in september, you used your position within the federal government to take jimmy kimmel off the air, in a clear attempt to chill free speech. You told abc we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
▶ 1:46:44Sen. Baldwin: The fcc is not a political weapon to be used against the president's critics. And yet you have also used it to go after 60 minutes, saturday night live, and seth meyers, all because the president did not like their criticism, or because they gave airtime to his opponents. Your twitter account before 2020 five would seem to align with what I'm saying.
▶ 1:47:14Sen. Baldwin: It is filled to the brim with statements defending freedom of speech as well as stating that the fcc does not have a roving mandate to police speech in the name of public interest. Sadly, those principles seem to have evaporated into thin air. There are many things that chair cruz and I do not agree on, but when he said that your actions have been, quote, dangerous as hell, that I can agree with.
▶ 1:47:46Sen. Baldwin: Your attempt to coerce private companies to censor speech that you and the president do not want to hear is really a blatant attack on the first amendment, a foundational principle of american democracy. The trump administration has been attacking free speech across the government since day one. President trump and secretary hegseth have expelled all legitimate journalists from the pentagon.
▶ 1:48:14Sen. Baldwin: President trump and the secretary have curtailed academic freedom in research and stifled lawful protest. President trump and attorney general bondi have rolled back protections that allow journalists to protect their sources. President trump and senate republicans defunded the corporation for public broadcasting and npr.
▶ 1:48:40Sen. Baldwin: You have become a parrot for president trump and diminished the independence of the fcc. So, the fcc has an incredibly important role in reviewing market salt -- market consolidation of cable, broadband, telephone, and wireless industries.
▶ 1:49:09Sen. Baldwin: We know that consolidation in any industry often results in a bad deal for consumers -- higher prices, fewer choices, and reduced incentives for companies to compete. Chairman carr, you have repeatedly signaled your desire to use merger reviews to force companies to enact policies favored by the trump administration. This summer, the fcc approved the merger between paramount global and sky dance media.
▶ 1:49:38Sen. Baldwin: This approval only came after paramount agreed to pay the president $16 million to settle a frivolous lawsuit, and paramount agreed to change its news editorial policies. Just this month, the fcc approved at&t's purchase of a U.S. cellular wireless license just one day after at&t terminated their diversity, equity, and inclusion or d.e.I. Policy.
▶ 1:50:10Sen. Baldwin: If the timing of this announcement was not suspicious enough, chairman carr, you took to x to boast about at&t's decision. Comissioner gomez, you voted against both of these mergers. Can you share why you will post them?
▶ 1:50:28Ms. Gomez: Thank you for your question, senator. I have had strong concerns about the strong-arming by the fcc of these companies, using its power over these merger approvals and transactions in order to delve into really private employment matters completely unrelated to the transactions themselves.
▶ 1:50:56Ms. Gomez: Traditionally, when the fcc has concessions as part of a merger review, it does so to address a harm that is caused by the transaction. The paramount transaction had this voluntary concession to appoint an ombudsperson reporting to the president of paramount to police concerns about bias in content. That is completely unprecedented.
▶ 1:51:26Ms. Gomez: I know what my colleagues would say. There was an ombudsperson in the comcast merger. That job was to make sure that the corporation did not interfere with news decisions of the news division. That is completely different than saying you are going to become a biased monitor. So I have strong concerns about us using our authority in order to demand these types of concessions from companies.
▶ 1:51:56Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator blackburn.
▶ 1:52:01Sen. Blackburn: Chairman carr, I want to chat with you for a minute about the new form of payola or show-ola, as some of our entertainers in tennessee call it. What has happened is broadcast stations use events in exchange for airplay.
▶ 1:52:23Sen. Blackburn: They particularly like the couple this with threats of reduced airplay if the band or the artist cannot give them these free events. Now, in the opinion of so many of our musicians, that violates the fcc's payola rules. And I know that you have looked at this coerced performance issue.
▶ 1:52:50Sen. Blackburn: I wanted to know if you have any update, and if you could speak to that for a moment.
▶ 1:52:56Mr. Carr: Thank you for your leadership on this. Historically, there has been a law on the books that prevents radio stations from seeking unreported payment of money or other conversation -- compensation to influence airplay, the time that music is played on the stations.
▶ 1:53:14Mr. Carr: One concern you brought to my attention early on, including through a letter earlier this year, is that a lot of radio stations are holding music festivals, and the concern has been raised that they are pressuring musicians that could be ones that are well off or ones that are just getting started to perform for free under threat that they may suffer airplay on radio stations if they don't do that. I think that is a concern. We issued an enforcement advisory right after being aware of this from you.
▶ 1:53:43Mr. Carr: We are going to be investigating some issues around this.
▶ 1:53:47Sen. Blackburn: Thank you. Ms. trusty, thank you for your time. We talked about the world radio communication conference. Ms. gomez, I know last year you kind of struggled. You had two jobs on your plate and it was hard to prepare for that. But I know that it is going to be essential to prepare for it because it is going to be in china. Give me a minute about what you are going to do in preparation for that conference.
▶ 1:54:17Mr. Carr: Thank you so much for thank you for the question and for your leadership on spectrum policy. This is a really important forum for the united states to promote american values, economic competitiveness, and national security. Thanks to the spectrum provisions in the working families tax cut act, we now have the ability to develop a unified strategy where we are focusing on key U.S.
▶ 1:54:42Mr. Carr: Priorities, and we can work with our international allies in advance to preempt those seeking to undermine U.S. interests in shanghai, china. In 2023, at the previous conference, we did not have this kind of legislative support. We did not have auction authority, which set us back. I think the restoration of auction authority in the long term spectrum pipeline -- we are positioned to emerge from that conference with wins so we are the leader in the next generation of communications technologies.
▶ 1:55:12Sen. Blackburn: Staying on spectrum, Mr. chairman, coming to you -- looking at mid band spectrum, about 60% of our mid band is held by government agencies, and about 5% is licensed commercial users. And of course with five g and six g, we absolutely cannot afford this.
▶ 1:55:41Sen. Blackburn: I have advocated for years for a full inventory of government spectrum licenses. Senator moran and I have had the spectrum inventory act, and I think it is important, for the record, for you to speak about the importance of freeing up this spectrum, getting it in the hands of commercial users, and then also talk a little bit about how the fcc and the and tia, which is responsible for
▶ 1:56:12Sen. Blackburn: The inventory, can work together and move this auction forward, the 800 megahertz of the big -- that the big beautiful bill allowed for.
▶ 1:56:24Mr. Carr: I agree that we need to have a balanced spectrum policy. We are overleveraged to some extent when it comes to unlicensed spectrum, shared spectrum. It is a very small sliver of spectrum that have high power and the type of stuff you want to build. That is what we are addressing in the near term and particularly in the sea band.
▶ 1:56:57Mr. Carr: The end tia administrator is doing a fantastic job. We need to make sure we have intensity of use of spectrum, for buyers to show they are loading their spectrum. That is part of what you see at&t quickly putting new spectrum on 23,000 cell sites.
▶ 1:57:21Mr. Carr: In terms of wireless service, I was a bit surprised to see senator marx earlier with the data and the prices for wireless phones. They are actually down 2% year-over-year. In fact, they are down 5% overbite and era highs. Do we want to keep driving down by eliminating inflationary prices? We are heading in the right direction. We just have to keep at it. Supple lujan chairman carr, yes or no, and please yes or no.
▶ 1:57:51Mr. Carr: Is the fcc an independent agency?
▶ 1:57:53Mr. Carr: Thanks for that question. Supple lujan yes or no is all we need.
▶ 1:57:58Mr. Carr: There is a test for this in the law.
▶ 1:58:02Sen. Ray Lujan: Yes or no, brendan. I can't get an answer. On your website it says the fcc is independent. This is not a trick question.
▶ 1:58:13Mr. Carr: It is not independent.
▶ 1:58:17Sen. Lujan: Is a website lying?
▶ 1:58:20Mr. Carr: The fcc is not an independent agency. Independent agency overseen by congress. Is this true or is this a lie?
▶ 1:58:36Mr. Carr: The sine qua non --
▶ 1:58:40Sen. Lujan: Chairman, I have a little bit of time.
▶ 1:58:45I Will Mr. Carr: Get back to you.
▶ 1:58:46Mr. Carr: The fcc is not an independent agency.
▶ 1:58:50Ms. Trusty: Senator, thank you for the question. The president is the chief executive vested with all executive power. The fcc commissioners do not have legal protections which means we are not independent.
▶ 1:59:05Supple Lujan -- Sen. Lujan: If the website is lying, you should fix it. I'm surprised I have burned up three minutes talking about this thing. Comissioner gomez?
▶ 1:59:21Ms. Trusty: Yes, and we should be.
▶ 1:59:25Sen. Lujan: If I could submit the printout of the homepage of the fcc saying it is an independent agency. If it is not true, change it. Chairman carr, with that being said, does congress need to clarify that the fcc is an independent agency?
▶ 1:59:46Mr. Carr: It is up to congress to pass any legislation. All power is vested in the president. Congress can change that by legislation.
▶ 1:59:57Sen. Lujan: Is it appropriate to revoke public broadcasts?
▶ 2:00:09Commissioner Carr: Those are things we should be taking action on.
▶ 2:00:13Supple Lujan -- Sen. Lujan: Is it appropriate?
▶ 2:00:21Ms. Trusty: My job is to enforce the law as relates to broadcasters. Broadcasters have public interest obligations. As you know, the fcc does have the authority to revoke licenses in the communications act.
▶ 2:01:10Ms. Gomez: Absolutely not. The first amendment applies to broadcasters regardless of whether the you spectrum are not in the communications act prohibits the fcc from censoring broadcasters. We should not be revoking licenses based on her viewpoint. In fact, what we should be doing is insuring more viewpoints. If you don't like speech, the answer is more speech. Supple lujan I appreciate that. I think that is something this body would agree with. Chairman carr, do you support the broadband label the fcc adopted back in 2022?
▶ 2:01:21Chairman Carr: Yes, sir.
▶ 2:01:21Sen. Lujan: Even though broadband providers have been talking about changes that make it harder for consumers to understand what they are paying for at the end of the month? As you know, it is hard to understand why this action would have been taken. You also want to eliminate the requirement that broadband labels be translated into languages in which the provider's marketing their services.
▶ 2:01:40Mr. Carr: That is not correct.
▶ 2:01:43Sen. Lujan: You will reduce the notion that these will not be known in english and other languages?
▶ 2:01:51Mr. Carr: Consumers want clear, concise, accurate information. I think we agree on that. We started a proceeding to make sure they are not overwhelmed by irrelevant information. We have not made a decision to eliminate anything. We are open minded. We saw a comment on different portions of the existing process.
▶ 2:02:11Sen. Lujan: There will be no action taken by the commission that prevents these companies from putting that information, the same language that is used in marketing, those languages can be used in other ways?
▶ 2:02:21Mr. Carr: I am not taking any action.
▶ 2:02:26Sen. Lujan: I appreciate that clarity. Do you think consumers benefit from seeing the full price they pay at the end of the month, with no hidden fees?
▶ 2:02:32Mr. Carr: We want clarity, just like nutrition. The concern is, do we strike the right balance where we have information -- we want to separate the wheat from the chaff. Supple lose on Mr. chairman, I hope you keep your word that there is more information and the best information.
▶ 2:02:51Mr. Carr: We want clarity. I don't know whether it is more or less. Supple jean more, better information. Whatever action the commission takes, just don't make it harder. Mr. chairman, I have other questions I was hoping to get to, but my little back and forth on this webpage got me stuck, sir. I will be submitting some questions into the record about caps.
▶ 2:03:17Mr. Carr: I have a question associated whether it is congress or the fcc that can change those caps on consolidation. I have questions about usf. I was proud back in may of 2023 with leader thune introduce the framework around the bipartisan bicameral working group, and I certainly hope that the word that was given to senator fischer to work together, that we can continue to work together to get this done. It is too important not to get right. I appreciate the time today.
▶ 2:03:45Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator young.
▶ 2:03:51Sen. Young: Chairman carr, earlier this month, during a communications -- tell communications subcommittee hearing, I raised the growing challenge of the illegal cutting of subsea cables and the danger it poses to our many critical infrastructures. In response, we were told the best way to ensure our subsea cable infrastructure is more resilient is by creating more cables. Makes sense to me. More redundancy in the system.
▶ 2:04:18Sen. Young: That would foster a more diverse ecosystem of cables, increasing the number of american-owned cables, extending the capacity of american ships to fix and repair any damages, which, without deviating too much, that is the focus of my chips for america act. And lastly, by sending a message to our adversaries that such cuttings of our undersea cables will be treated as an attack on our critical infrastructure.
▶ 2:04:48Sen. Young: So in line with this, can you speak, Mr. chairman, to why accelerating and streamlining subsea cable deployment is important to U.S. economic and national security, and for the rule that you adopted earlier this year helps move the process toward clear, timely decisions?
▶ 2:05:06Mr. Carr: Thank you, senator, and thanks for your work on those important legislative efforts. Undersea cables are the unsung hero of global communications. They carry roughly 99% of all internet traffic -- traffic. They can be vulnerable to disruption. We have put new policies in place to invest in additional buildout of undersea cables.
▶ 2:05:33Mr. Carr: We will do so making sure they are secure as well, including looking at foreign ownership issues related to undersea cables, to make sure we are not introducing risks. We are going to lead the world in ai. We need to have that infrastructure to carry it. I think we are headed in a good direction now.
▶ 2:05:50Sen. Young: Comissioner trusty, do you keep any thoughts on this?
▶ 2:05:55Ms. Trusty: Thank you for your leadership on undersea cables. I think this has to do with redundancy and efficiency and that goes to support economic growth or technological leadership and secure communications, so I think we are all headed in the right direction on this.
▶ 2:06:17Sen. Young: I wish congress could learn from the commission and streamlining the permitting process. Comissioner trusty, in that same rule, the fcc established requirements for applicants and licensees to create a cyber security and physical security risk management plan. How can that create a more resilient subsea cable network, and what else should we as congress be doing to secure this infrastructure?
▶ 2:06:42Ms. Trusty: Thank you for the question. I think with respect to these risk management plans, we can identify threats. We can help reduce vulnerabilities. And to the extent there is sabotage or some kind of compromise, we will have ready-made response plans in place to address these types of issues. In terms of what more congress can do, I think congress can promote more U.S.-led cable projects. That would help to get foreign adversaries out of these types of networks.
▶ 2:07:11Ms. Trusty: I also think we should look to diversify traffic patterns so we don't have a single point failure in the event there is compromise or sabotage. And I think we can strengthen emergency response plans and disaster recovery initiative so we can have more secure critical infrastructure.
▶ 2:07:29Sen. Young: Thank you. Good answer. Chairman carr, the media marketplace has evolved drastically since its early days in the 20th century. As a result, we have seen legislative and regulatory reforms advance to keep pace with the market. I have heard from many different stakeholders including small and local broadcasters in india regarding potential action by the fcc to modify the current broadcast ownership cap.
▶ 2:07:57Sen. Young: Can you explain what the impact to local broadcasters will be, should the broadcast ownership cap be expanded?
▶ 2:08:03Mr. Carr: Thank you, senator. We are looking at these issues and have not made a decision. There is a couple of potential guide star is here. If you look at local newspapers, they have been shutting by the thousands all across the country. We care as a public interest manner about local news and local reporting. I think we have to start looking at policies that can create more incentives for investment their.
▶ 2:08:29Mr. Carr: One of the concerns that I have in media policy as a general matter is you have the national programmers, disney, comcast, and others, that are increasingly dominating with respect to local broadcasters. We want to make sure they have the ability to invest in local news gathering because local news is more trusted than national media that is out there. So we are balancing a couple of different policies there and seeing where we land.
▶ 2:08:57Sen. Young: It is not just a matter of trust. It is also content. When seemingly every issue gets nationalized, and when national issues get more play than local issues, and when we have an electorate, a citizenry who have no idea what is happening in the local council meeting and school boards, and all the rest, because the information is not being circulated.
▶ 2:09:28Sen. Young: You have to question whether some of the fundamental predicates for having a democracy, a functioning democracy, and voting for local officials, are being laid. I could not tell you in -- my attentiveness to the news. I cannot tell you what is happening in the local school board.
▶ 2:09:58Sen. Young: I still show up to vote for these local offices. My own approach is to skip those I know nothing about. It is, I think, an indictment on our news ecosystem. It may take some intentionality to fix it.
▶ 2:10:18Mr. Carr: The national programs out of new york -- it is one idea we are looking at. It is how we empower those local tv stations to reclaim that local news time for programming, and we are looking for ideas for that.
▶ 2:10:35Sen. Young: Thank you for indulging me well over my time.
▶ 2:10:38Chair Cruz: I'm glad the senate does not follow your philosophy on voting. If senators did not vote on things we know nothing about, there might be a number of votes without a single yay or nay cast.
▶ 2:10:54Sen. Kim: Thank you to the three of you for coming out here. Chairman carr, I guess I just wanted to start with you. I was confused after hearing your response to one of my colleagues about the status of the fcc. I want to read you a quote here and see if you agree with it. Congress long ago determined that the fcc, and independent, expert agency -- is that correct or not?
▶ 2:11:16Mr. Carr: There has been a sea change in the law and the approach since I think I wrote that sentence.
▶ 2:11:23Sen. Kim: You did. You set it in front of congress.
▶ 2:11:27Mr. Carr: The communications act was past one year before humphrey's executor. Congress did not include in the communications act for because removal of fcc commissioners. I could be fired by the president for any reason or no reason at all. The theory had been that courts would read for cause removal into the statute, and that was the basis for that viewpoint. I think now it is clear that is not the case. Formally speaking, the fcc is not independent. We do not have the key piece which is for cause removal.
▶ 2:11:58Sen. Kim: So when you are talking about all power vested in the president, you are saying not just that it is an independent agency, but you are saying that congress did not want these technical decisions to be made in a haphazard manner or based on misinformation or short-term political interest. You specifically said it placed the authority outside of the executive branch for a reason. So you were not just stating what was the law at the time.
▶ 2:12:26Sen. Kim: You were stating the benefit that comes with the independents. I guess I'm trying to get a sense from you -- if you don't think the fcc is independent, then his president trump your boss?
▶ 2:12:37Mr. Carr: President trump designated me as chairman of the fcc. It comes as no surprise that I am aligned with president trump on policy. That is why he designated me as chairman. Ultimately, the president designated me as chairman. I could be fired by the president. The president is the head of the executive branch.
▶ 2:12:58Sen. Kim: He is your boss?
▶ 2:12:58Mr. Carr: The decisions of the commission will be based on the vote of the three of us right here. There are things that are different about that. Our decisions are based on the facts and the law.
▶ 2:13:10Sen. Kim: You swore an oath when you came into your job, right? Does the oath of the word present in it? I'm not -- do you remember the oath that you took? An oath to protect what? What is it that you are protecting?
▶ 2:13:25Mr. Carr: In this job --
▶ 2:13:30Sen. Kim: The constitution of the united states. I am just trying to get a sense of how you are trying to operate here. I guess I will have to be a little more direct here. Have you ever had a conversation with the president or senior administration officials about using the fcc to go after critics?
▶ 2:13:46Mr. Carr: First of all, I don't get into the specifics of conversations that I have.
▶ 2:13:53Sen. Kim: Let me reframe it. Would it be appropriate for the president or senior administration officials to give you direction to pressure media companies?
▶ 2:14:00Mr. Carr: I'm not going to get into hypotheticals.
▶ 2:14:05Sen. Kim: The easy answer is no. It is not a hypothetical. It is just trying to determine whether or not you are understanding your job in belonging to the american people. Trump is not your boss. The american people are your boss. One example. Let me finish. Let me finish my comment, ok? The reason I have raised this is because whether or not you have had that conversation in the oval office or on a phone call, what we do is we see it out in front on august 24.
▶ 2:14:37Sen. Kim: Trump wrote abc and nbc fake news. They are simply an arm of the democratic party and should accordingly have their licenses revoked by the fcc. I would be totally in favor of that because they are so biased and untruthful. An actual threat to our democracy. This is not a hypothetical.
▶ 2:14:58Sen. Kim: He did try to direct you to be able to use your power at the fcc against media companies that he thought were biased against him. That's why I want to say it is not hypothetical or theoretical. This is real. I was trying to get a sense of whether or not you thought that this behavior was appropriate or not.
▶ 2:15:22Sen. Kim: Your failure to be able to directly dictate a line and show that there is integrity in the process concerns me. Before the fcc comes all of these decisions. All of these decisions.
▶ 2:15:40Sen. Kim: When you cannot tell me directly that trump is not your boss and that the american people are your boss, I do not trust you to make these decisions with the independent mind directed by congress. With that, I yield back.
▶ 2:15:52Mr. Carr: It's a vote. It's a product. A product of our votes. We can all suggest edits and change items. For yourself you can see the basis of the reasoning.
▶ 2:16:03Sen. Kim: Would it be appropriate for the president to remove and replace any commission or because he disagrees with the commissioner
▶ 2:16:11Question Mark Mr. Carr: He can remain -- commissioner? Do you think it's appropriate?
▶ 2:16:17Mr. Carr: That's up to the president.
▶ 2:16:21Sen. Kim: Got your answer. I yield back.
▶ 2:16:24Chair Cruz: I would note that senator kim asked multiple questions about whether it is appropriate for politicians to try to pressure the fcc to silence their critics. My answer to that is unequivocally no. But that happens to be my answer whether those politicians or -- are republicans or democrats and I would like to know enter into the record a letter dated april 11, 2018, directed to the then chairman of the fcc.
▶ 2:16:57Chair Cruz: Grave concerns regarding sinclair broadcasting group's conduct that affects its fitness to hold its existing broadcast licenses and its fitness to inquire -- acquire even more licenses through a proposed merger with the tribune media company and the signatory was concerned that sinclair had their local anchors warn the populace of the dangers of "one sided news stories plaguing our
▶ 2:17:29Chair Cruz: Country." sinclair spoke out against bias in journalism. Apparently our democrat colleagues didn't like that and in writing they urged the fcc to strip the licenses and block the merger.
▶ 2:17:45Chair Cruz: This letter is signed by maria cantwell, patty murray, ron wyden, richard blumenthal, bernie sanders, tom udall, elizabeth moran, ed markey, tina smith, jeff merkley, and cory booker. So, I'm going to enter this letter into the record and without objection it is so wrecked -- entered. I would point out that the principles ought to apply to both sides evenly.
▶ 2:18:09Sen. Kim: Appreciate your comments. A quick rebuttal, this is another attempt to muddied the waters. Chairman carper's threats to companies he directly regulates are not the same thing as a letter from congress requesting an agency look at public concerns. Members on both sides frequently write similar letters, that's the proper oversight role of congress.
▶ 2:18:35Sen. Kim: Secretary of state, rubio, wrote to the fcc in 2022 urging the agency to thoroughly scrutinize the proposed sale of spanish-language radio stations concerned it would silence political viewpoints. I hope that we stop trying to distract from the clear and present attacks right now on our first amendment, chairman carper's targeted threats against the licensees that he directly regulates and we can hear from him without further delay.
▶ 2:19:00Chair Cruz: You are factually incorrect. This letter is factual -- calling for the fcc to block the merger because the democrats who signed it disagreed with the content on that station. The difference, I was on that committee then, when this happened I spoke out against it at the time. You know what? Not a single democrat on the committee had a word to say about it.
▶ 2:19:24Chair Cruz: I was also on the committee at the time that democrats tried to go after fox to deny a routine license renewal because democrats didn't like what fox news says. I don't like what msnbc says but I'm not urging the commission to take a the license. So, suddenly when the current administration and fcc makes comments about jimmy kimmel, comments that I spoke out against, as you know, suddenly democrats have discovered the first amendment.
▶ 2:19:55Chair Cruz: My request would be may be to remember it when democrats are in power. The first amendment is not simply a one way, one way license for one team to abuse the power and the other not. We shouldn't -- instead respect the free speech of all americans regardless of party.
▶ 2:20:12Sen. Kim: I agree. Much of what you said, I wasn't on the committee at that time and going forward I can hope to show this regardless of who is violating that we show that integrity to the process.
▶ 2:20:24Chair Cruz: That would be a wonderful development and I hope so as well. Senator curtis?
▶ 2:20:31Senator Curtis: I'm sure everyone is disappointed that I'm going to change subjects. Chairman, you were good enough to come into my office a few days ago and we talked about section 230. In that meeting I tried to bifurcate. A lot of people think of censorship when they hear 200 30. Set that aside for a minute. Not going to try to solve that, that's a complex issue. But you and I talked about algorithms.
▶ 2:21:00Senator Curtis: The analogy that comes to mind is the digital billboard. Originally, social media companies were to provide the venue for a digital billboard. Somewhere along the line, that model changed. We conflated it with the post office, making it a letter from you to me, we don't hold them responsible for the content. But if they opened the letter and read it and said we will send this to 100 million people, that's a different conversation.
▶ 2:21:28Senator Curtis: My question for you is, from your perspective, are we underestimating the dangers of algorithm driven content?
▶ 2:21:38Mr. Carr: Thank you for the question. I have gone back to take a look at your legislation again since our meeting and I think I have expressed concerns over the years about how courts have sort of misinterpreted and given expansive new readings to section two hundred 30 that are not in the statutory text and there are those issues in your legislation as well that are worth looking at.
▶ 2:22:02Sen. Curtis: To bring everyone up to speed that hasn't had the chance to do that, the question is -- it should section 230 protections apply to social media companies employing harmful recommendations or causing harm through their recommendations. Going beyond just the digital billboard but actually taking those now and sending them out to hundreds of millions of people.
▶ 2:22:26Mr. Carr: Yes there is a debate in the courts as well about part of that section 230 that talks about platforms that contribute even in part to that development as these algorithms play into the contribute in part portion of the analysis.
▶ 2:22:43Sen. Curtis: As everyone here knows, this section goes back decades. I think it's clear to say that we didn't see the world we are in today. I just introduce that to you and to others as something that we need to start thinking about. When you were in my office, we talked about permit reform. You have had a chance to think about this.
▶ 2:23:07Sen. Curtis: What is the role of congress in assisting you in your permitting reform goals and what can we be doing on our side to make sure that we can complete these projects in a responsible way, as they are so important for you to complete?
▶ 2:23:25Sen. Curtis: There's no question that it costs too much and takes too long to build out that infrastructure. It's probably one of the most significant economic efforts is congress can make, to continue to codify and streamline permitting regulations.
▶ 2:23:42Sen. Curtis: We are looking at the environmental regulations and how they have been misapplied displays over the years with state and local requirements with fees and permitting structures that don't align with the costa-based approach that we have used before. We have to get back to turning dirt. This will be an important stream for us.
▶ 2:24:02Sen. Curtis: Commissioner trustee, how do you see permitting reform and how important is it that we figure this out?
▶ 2:24:12Ms. Trusty: It's essential to meeting universal connectivity goals. We have been working on reducing burdens on businesses and streamlining licenses and permitting better advanced broad band providers so we are looking at looking to make those processes more cost-effective and transparent.
▶ 2:24:33Ms. Trusty: We want to make sure those reviews are more predictable and efficient and are looking at opening up access to rights-of-way, another barrier to employing and deploying into businesses across the country.
▶ 2:24:45Chair Cruz: Do you agree with your colleagues, commissioner access to affordable broadband as quickly as possible is very important.
▶ 2:24:55Sen. Curtis: I'm pleased on our side, this seems to be a bipartisan issue, that there are still some hurdles moving forward, but that figuring out how to do it responsibly -- no one is suggesting we should be irresponsible. Chairman carper, and the few seconds -- chairman car, and the few seconds I have left, what happens if we don't figure out permitting reform?
▶ 2:25:19Mr. Carr: Communities stuck on the wrong side of the digital divide will remain there. The costs of building could be higher, it could raise prices and slow down the build out of these and we have to get going.
▶ 2:25:38Senator Curtis: This is not just in your world and in the energy sector we have the same problem and we are struggling as a country to figure out how to be able to allow things to move forward in a responsible way. I hope that here in the senate we can figure out a path forward for everyone who needs this. Thank you, Mr. chairman, I healed my time.
▶ 2:25:58Chair Cruz: Senator blunt rochester?
▶ 2:26:06Senator Blunt Rochester: Like many of my colleagues, we are urban and suburban and the state of delaware. Rural. Up also coastal. For me and a lot of reds -- members here, we've been working on the digital divide for a very long time. Everything from investing in connectivity to modernizing our maps. There are places in delaware where you'll drive and the call dropped, you know where the spot is going to be.
▶ 2:26:35Senator Blunt Rochester: The bottom line is, if you have access but cannot afford the services, then you don't really have it. We are in the midst of an affordability crisis. Everything from rent to groceries and broadband internet has gone up. It is clear that we have to be laser focused on affordability.
▶ 2:26:56Senator Blunt Rochester: My first question for you, commissioner gomez, commissioner gomez, democratic leadership at the fcc in the past has emphasized affordability, competition, transparency, and closing the digital divide. From your perspective, how do affordability policies under the previous democratically led fcc compared to the current administration's affordability policies, and how specifically it relates to consumer outcomes?
▶ 2:27:28Ms. Gomez: Thank you for that question, senator. This administration has really lost its focus on consumer issues. Particularly on affordability. We have not seen any action to address affordability. When we lost the affordable connectivity program, millions of consumers lost their service and support for their service. They lost millionths of ploy.
▶ 2:28:06Ms. Gomez: We need seniors to have access so they can get health care services. We need students to have access so they can prepare themselves for the ai economy. I was listening this morning to the head of the national economic council who said that we wouldn't have a problem with finding jobs because they can be found on the internet. My thought at the moment was -- if you have access to the internet. Schools and libraries need to have access to the internet.
▶ 2:28:37Ms. Gomez: Instead, this commission took back the ability to provide hot spots through libraries so that people could have internet at home, so that students could have hotspots through their schools. We are not ensuring that people who cannot afford to be connected can get access to the internet.
▶ 2:28:58Not -- Sen. Blunt Rochester: : so not only will people not be able to afford the tools and services, but more will be left behind?
▶ 2:29:05Ms. Gomez: Correct.
▶ 2:29:07Sen. Blunt Rochester: : as connectivity expands to the internet of things, six g networks, cybersecurity risks to consumers grow significant way. Do you believe the fcc has taken the appropriate steps to future proof the cybersecurity of everyday americans in an increasingly complex telecommunications ecosystem? And why? Commissioner trusty, I'm going to ask you a similar question.
▶ 2:29:34Ms. Gomez: This commission has had a lot of focus on security. At the same time, it has also taken away the regulatory backstop to make sure that the companies actually have cybersecurity policies. This just happened with regards to response on salt typhoon. This administration has been very concerned about chinese equipment.
▶ 2:29:59Ms. Gomez: It has look for every opportunity in order to make sure we don't have chinese equipment or insecure equipment in the network. But when china actually hacks our networks, this administration took away the rulemaking that would have actually required carriers to make cybersecurity front of mind.
▶ 2:30:20Ms. Gomez: I am also concerned that we have put a pause on the cyber trust market, which is a way, a market driven mechanism that I would think my republican colleagues would really appreciate, a market driven mechanism in order for consumers to have information about whether the devices they are using come from businesses that use good cyber hygiene. I am hopeful that we will be able to get that going again. That's a really important public-private partnership to ensure security.
▶ 2:30:50Sen. Blunt Rochester: I have very limited time. Commissioner trusty, I'm going to ask you this question for the record. You spoke about the need for the U.S. to keep pace with international telecommunications trends like cybersecurity and I was going to ask if you agreed with commissioner gomez on her assessment and if you would like to add anything. I will follow-up with you on that.
▶ 2:31:13Sen. Blunt Rochester: But in the interest of time I want to spend a moment, as I am very, very concerned about chairman carr, your focus on ending -- was that you, Mr. chairman?
▶ 2:31:28Chair Cruz: It was.
▶ 2:31:30Sen. Blunt Rochester: Will you give me a point of personal privilege question mark every single member before me went over time.
▶ 2:31:36Chair Cruz: Briefly, please. Submit it the record.
▶ 2:31:40Sen. Blunt Rochester: I want to make sure I say this on the record. I think that when commissioner gomez talked about private companies doing employment matters, these are employment matters. Your focus on diversity, equity, inclusion, and celebrating the real withdrawal of that, I think has had an impact on women, veterans, people with disabilities, religious, minorities.
▶ 2:32:09Sen. Blunt Rochester: I will ask of the record for commissioner gomez to explain how conditioning fcc approvals on the end -- elimination of d.e.I. Undermines job opportunities, weakens the economy, and our competitiveness. With that, I will yield back.
▶ 2:32:33Chairman: Senator schmitt?
▶ 2:32:35Senator Schmitt: Every so often in this place, it almost feels like you are having an out of body experience where you are like watching something happen and you can't believe it's happening. So, the idea that my democrat are so offended that the first amendment may or may not be violated by some comment you made is just extraordinary, given the last four years that
▶ 2:33:05Senator Schmitt: We lived through. I happen to know something about it. I followed the missouri versus biden lawsuit that a federal judge ruled was the most massive attack against free speech in U.S. history, where entire agencies, and we sat through these depositions, were weaponized against the american people on the instruction of the federal government.
▶ 2:33:28Senator Schmitt: Not just one agency, but a leviathan of agencies with words and phrases that you shall not utter in the united states of america or you are censored. You don't get to outsource your censorship to universities or social media companies. Which is exactly what was happening. It went so far as to actually create, and I would challenge anybody on the committee if they raise objection to this, literally a disinformation governance board in the united states of america.
▶ 2:34:00Senator Schmitt: Remember the mary poppins character, singing? That's what I'm talking about. Not like in 1898. Not like in 1799. Like three years ago. So, to sit here and listen to all of this stuff about wearing the white hat on free speech is laughable. Anyway, that's not, I can't help myself. Sometimes it. I want to get to these questions, first.
▶ 2:34:29Senator Schmitt: But listening to this is incredible. Anyway, Mr. carr, I want to ask you about something that hasn't been asked about. There is currently a draft piece of legislation being considered by the european commission. The european union space act that as currently drafted would impose a regulatory framework that would apply not just to eat you firms, but also U.S. satellite operators providing services to european customers.
▶ 2:35:02Senator Schmitt: It appears specifically targeted at U.S. companies due solely to their size and success. From the perspective of the fcc, what concrete impacts with these proposed requirements have on U.S. licensed systems operating globally, particularly where the eu rules may duplicate or conflict with current U.S. requirements?
▶ 2:35:26Mr. Carr: Thanks for the question. For years, europe has been engaged in protectionist conduct, going after U.S. technology companies simply for being successful companies. What we are now seeing is the specific application of that same approach into the satellite sector. European regulators are using european satellite sovereignty to suggest that you effectively have to be a european satellite company in order to do business in europe.
▶ 2:35:56Mr. Carr: But unlike the technology space there are actual champion providers in that space that do business in america. So if europe continues to go down this path we will have to make sure there are reciprocal and fair treatments, but ultimately it is holding back europe itself and is harmful to U.S. businesses that are trying to have global operation. There is significant pushback on the sovereignty effort fishing place in europe.
▶ 2:36:22Sen. Schmitt: And it is part and parcel of something that's happening in europe where under the nato flag the U.S. is supposed to have unconditional support no matter what where we are partners and it's an alliance, but when the eu flag goes up, it's a different story. I hope that you do sort of pushback on this idea. I think it's very ill timed and likely illegal.
▶ 2:36:48Sen. Schmitt: We have levers in the toolbox to where that shouldn't be the case, but if they are going to go down this road, hopefully you will make it clear to our european friends that this is not appreciated. I want to, briefly in the time that I have left, Mr. carr, the U.S. already has full licensing frameworks.
▶ 2:37:13Sen. Schmitt: What is the status of securing a kind of equivalence decision if equivalency isn't granted staying on the european track here. How with these overlapping requirements affect us globally?
▶ 2:37:32Mr. Carr: We are looking at power level issues where europe is in a different position from america and europe may hold back on power levels in europe and we can authorize it here in america where our consumers can continue to get better, faster satellite services, including high-speed internet, and looking at going much faster on processing satellite applications.
▶ 2:37:56Mr. Carr: When I took over we had a backlog, we are cutting through it and changing our approach inside the building to be more assembly-line. Clear and bright line rules. Hit them, green light from the fcc quickly. I think it will set us up to lead the world in these next generation satellite technologies.
▶ 2:38:18Chairman: Senator peters?
▶ 2:38:22Senator Peters: Thank you to the three of you for being here today. Chair carr, in 2019 you tweeted "should the government censor speech it doesn't like? Of course not. The fcc does not have a roving mandate police speech in the name of the public interest." that was your tweet in 2019. I agree.
▶ 2:38:58Senator Peters: It was dangerous to our democracy. According to your book about how democracies die, this key slide towards authoritarianism and freedom of the press, we've seen it over and over again, which is why I was concerned about your actions this fall. You have alone suggested that the fcc go after broadcasters that do not punish comedians.
▶ 2:39:29Senator Peters: We heard it here in the hearing, who do not punish comedians that make comments the president doesn't like. In one case you specifically mentioned the broadcasters' public interest obligation. You said, in this instance, "we can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way." or that's a line from the godfather, not sure. Similar.
▶ 2:39:58Senator Peters: When you threatened to use the fcc to do the very thing you said in 2019 that the fcc shouldn't ever do. A roving sensor. I hate to say this, but ensuring that broadcasters are operating in the public interest, I don't believe that means ensuring that no one on tv's ever mean to the president or says something that the president may not like.
▶ 2:40:25Senator Peters: To act otherwise is to basically take a leaflet out of an authoritarian playbook. Vladimir putin comes to mind as someone who openly intimidates and threatens folks in a similar manner. This can't happen, not in our democracy. So, I'm just going to ask you a simple yes or no question.
▶ 2:40:47Senator Peters: Will you commit here today that you will not remove -- not move to revoke any media license from broadcasters or retaliate in any way against broadcast companies merely for choosing to host content that is critical of the president or says something that he may not like? Yes or no question mark very simple.
▶ 2:41:05Mr. Carr: Any broadcaster that complies with the public interest standard is not at risk at all. If a broadcaster violates the news distortion policy or has political opportunity, there's work to do.
▶ 2:41:21Sen. Peters: This should be an easy question. Do you think that the fcc should protect free speech?
▶ 2:41:26Mr. Carr: Yes.
▶ 2:41:28Sen. Peters: Ok. So, we can go back. You will not revoke licenses as a retaliation if they are simply engaging in free speech?
▶ 2:41:38Mr. Carr: The supreme court has expressly said that there is no first amendment right to an fcc license. The supreme court said that. Enforcing the public interest standard is not a violation.
▶ 2:41:54Sen. Peters: And you to determine what the public interest is question mark of the president is offended, you decide that's the public interest? That seems to be counter to the whole history of this country. People are always critical. I don't care who the president's, democrat or republican. We should be able to make fun of them. In a healthy democracy, you can make fun of your leaders and speak truth to power. I don't understand that. There should be easy.
▶ 2:42:22Mr. Carr: Making fun of the president?
▶ 2:42:24Sen. Peters: Any president.
▶ 2:42:27Mr. Carr: Kimball was not making fun of the president. He said that we hit new lows over the weekend with the maga gang as characterizing the kid who killed charlie kirk as anything other than one of them. A mischaracterization of a significant political assassination.
▶ 2:42:51Sen. Peters: I want to make it broader than that. Public interest is a lot broader than that and it shouldn't be you that determines that. In a democracy, people are free to say things that you may not like and I may not like. But we always defend that.
▶ 2:43:10Mr. Carr: Congress passed the law.
▶ 2:43:13Sen. Peters: Commissioner gomez --
▶ 2:43:15Mr. Carr: They want something different.
▶ 2:43:17Sen. Peters: I got limited time here. Commissioner gomez, could I have a few moments, given the filibuster? Mission or gomez, it is true that the fcc has not followed through on threats to revoke licenses over comments that the trump administration disagrees with, despite the chairman's threats to do so.
▶ 2:43:42Sen. Peters: Could you discuss how public comments and actions related to major broadcaster editorial choices have been received by the media and if you think the fcc actually needs to revoke licenses to have a chilling effect?
▶ 2:43:54Ms. Gomez: Thank you, senator. This administration has been on a campaign to censor content and to control the media. And others. Any -- ended at weaponizing and delivered it has to control that media. That includes using the fcc to threaten licensees and broadcasters are being chilled.
▶ 2:44:19Ms. Gomez: We are hearing from broadcasters that they are afraid -- the air programming critical of this administration because they are afraid of being dragged toward the fcc in an investigation. It will be costly, it is still unconstitutional to revoke licenses based solely on content that the fcc doesn't like. We need to define what we mean by operating in the public interest, and we are going to use it as a means to go.
▶ 2:44:46Ms. Gomez: That role was put in place because of orson welles and the war of the worlds. And our newest distortion policy does not mean any content we don't like. It requires a very specific circumstance in order to be used, which is why it is really never used. The first amendment governs what we do, as well as the communication act prohibition on censorship, and this commission is abusing that.
▶ 2:45:18Ms. Gomez: >> if broadcasts are hesitating today before running broadcasts -- or news distortion or -- >> it is my time. >> I did not direct the question to you. >> I'm going to recognize myself. Thank you. -- let's talk about robo calls. I don't think we have talked about that today. Your testimony mentioned the work you in the fcc are doing to protect the integrity of the robocall mitigation database.
▶ 2:45:48Ms. Gomez: Every telephone town hall that I do, including one last week, the folks bring up robocalls. They feel overwhelmed by them, they feel that they perpetrate real harm, as I'm around the state, people talk about robocalls, huge concerns. Especially things like a.I. Generated personalized voices and the scams become more sophisticated and easier to carry out. Thank you all for being here. What can the fcc do to proactively protect folks?
▶ 2:46:21Ms. Gomez: How can you stay ahead of the curve with these changing criminal tactics? >> this is the number one complaint we get at the fcc. Historically it has felt like a game of whack a mole. We put a technology solution in place, go after a single bad actor. But this would just pop up in another way. What we are doing now is taking an approach tackling illegal robo calls at every single portion of the call lifecycle.
▶ 2:46:45Ms. Gomez: Making it harder to get access to telephone numbers, making it more difficult for foreign robo calls to enter the U.S., looking at potential loopholes including ones for non-ip networks. One we recently teed up is taking a look at any robo call that originates from a call center overseas. Right now when it comes to your phone, it can show the U.S. area code to fool you into thinking it is here in america.
▶ 2:47:13Ms. Gomez: We are looking at changing that, displaying a foreign call center, they should be able to disclose that to the consumer. If it helps with on a showing, it can be a good thing as well. We are taking a new approach, including kicking out over 1200 providers from the rubble call mitigation base, which effectively cuts them off from the systems. We are trying to tackle this at every portion of the call.
▶ 2:47:39Ms. Gomez: >> I think you are talking about the sim farms we have seen recently. Is there any specific limitations that prevent your agency from doing more in this area? >> as of right now, we have a fair amount of legal authority in this area.
▶ 2:47:57Ms. Gomez: It is simply about tracking down every single loophole folks are exploring, we are working with state ag's on this, deepening our partnership and collaboration with ftc, the consumer protection agency. >> shifting gears a little bit. One of your first stops when you were confirmed was western north carolina after the devastating hurricane about 14 months ago.
▶ 2:48:27Ms. Gomez: It devastated communications infrastructure. One of the most difficult aspects of the immediate response was folks who could not get signal out to reach loved ones, emergency services when they needed. Can you highlight some of the work you in the fcc are doing to enhance communication resiliency after natural disasters?
▶ 2:48:49Ms. Gomez: >> my first trip as chairman, western north carolina was hit hard and engaged in recovery, went to chimney rock and the portion where it was total devastation. We put in a place before a new mechanism where carriers can easily roam on each other's networks. If one provider has service, more people can connect that way. We are also looking at recovery efforts. What you see is often times the telecom networks will survive the initial storm.
▶ 2:49:20Ms. Gomez: As road crews come in, they can cut lines. We are making sure those different portions of recovery crews are collaborating better and communicating so they don't step on each other as much. There's a range of additional actions we are taking. >> commissioner, how will the fcc build america agenda increase network resiliency? I think we talked about this. >> sure, thank you for the questions.
▶ 2:49:47Ms. Gomez: We are doing a lot through the build america agenda to enhance network resiliency. We are embracing new technologies like satellite conductivities. We are doing a lot to overhaul our earth and space station licensing framework to expand access to satellite connectivity which can enhance redundancy and resiliency. We are pushing forward the ip transition. Streamlining copper retirement processes and legacy services discontinuance to make room for ip-based networks that are more reliable and resilient.
▶ 2:50:15Ms. Gomez: We are also doing a top to bottom review of our emergency alert systems to make sure we can get americans the information they need that is potentially life-saving. All of that is covered under the build america agenda. >> is there any way congress can be a better partner in that mission? >> I think it goes back to permitting reform.
▶ 2:50:36Ms. Gomez: When networks are destroyed or compromised, not having to work through permitting delays and other bureaucratic issues is helpful when trying to restore these communication services for americans. Senator rosen, your recognize. >> I want to remind the witnesses today that the constitution stands, overwrites regulatory bodies, the first amendment is what we base our communications on.
▶ 2:51:06Ms. Gomez: The constitution and the bill of rights stands above all. I'm going to build a bit upon what senator peters and others did. I'm worried about a threatening environment for our media. So I will say following jimmy kimmel's monologue, chairman car, you publicly said we can do it the easy way or the hard way. Maybe you like movies, maybe you don't. Maybe you have never seen the godfather, but we have. I'm going to ask an additional question.
▶ 2:51:37Ms. Gomez: My time is limited. Was it an implicit threat to abc and its affiliates to take jimmy kimmel off the air or a bc and its affiliates face consequences such as losing broadcasting license or having proposed mergers blocked? Is it how government works now? The threat of losing your license? >> thank you for the question. I was very clear, there is no threat to revoke a license.
▶ 2:52:07Ms. Gomez: >> was it a threat to invoke a license? >> there was no threat to revoke a license. >> I will take that as a no. I appreciate that. I will move onto another question about edited interviews. Earlier this year you reinstated the closed fcc inquiry into cbs news for alleged edits of an interview with kamala harris that donald trump claimed was done to help her.
▶ 2:52:39Ms. Gomez: Many interviews are edited to fit in a timeframe of the news program. This is nothing new. Cbs news ended up paying donald trump millions in a settlement over a dispute. Earlier this year, fox news also edited an interview that donald trump did last year in the middle of a presidential campaign. In which he was asked if he would release the epstein files. The edited interview ends after trump said I would. But the unedited version shows trump hedging his support for releasing the files.
▶ 2:53:10Ms. Gomez: Chairman car, given that the edited by fox news was clearly meant to make donald trump look good in the middle of a presidential campaign, will you commit to opening an investigation into fox news for its deceptive editing of this clip? Yes or no? >> no. >> no?
▶ 2:53:31Ms. Gomez: You are an elected bureaucrat, you are deciding that some investigations should go on, and others shouldn't, and are you basing this solely on the target or -- what are you basing this on? This was clearly edited, why is one edit fine and one not in the middle of a presidential campaign? >> senator, it is based on the law. The fox interview cable was on the law. No broadcast hoax rule. No role for the fcc.
▶ 2:54:04Ms. Gomez: >> I think there is a rule for fairness and the american public understand what is fair and dressed -- just. >> the same rule for cable companies -- >> I'm going to go on to merger threats. Is there a law directing the fcc to consider editorial conduct when reviewing mergers? I have a follow-up question. >> the fcc job under the communications act is to make sure they are in the public interest.
▶ 2:54:37Ms. Gomez: >> can you clarify for us the lens through which you review public -- public interest? Is there a set of something that is applied the same equally and to every single merger you look at? Are you using the same template?
▶ 2:55:00Ms. Gomez: Share with us how you consider editorial conduct when you are looking to approve the mergers that may be that they will get them, your personal opinion. >> the standard is the public interest standard. The document approving mergers walks through all of the standards, applies to them, it is in black and white for everyone to do.
▶ 2:55:24Ms. Gomez: And we apply normal -- >> I want to ask senator gomez, if congress passed a law directing the fcc to consider editorial conduct in a merger review, will the law violate the first amendment be considered unconstitutional? >> in all likelihood, the law would violate the first amendment because it protects against government interference with editorial decisions.
▶ 2:55:51Ms. Gomez: >> do you think the next decisions regarding its editorial comment because it was concerned the fcc might not approve its merger with tegna if it aired content the trump administration opposed? >> I think it was trying to carry favor with the administration by preempting jimmy kimmel when it did. >> do you think the fcc used merger approval as a letter to exert pressure on media corporations to threaten free speech and our democracy?
▶ 2:56:22Ms. Gomez: >> without a doubt, the fcc is leveraging its authority over mergers and enforcement proceedings to influence content. >> thank you. >> our witness, we ask the questions. My time is up. >> senator hickenlooper. >> thank you, Mr. chair. Thank you all for your time and service.
▶ 2:56:53Ms. Gomez: The united states is remaining a global leader in innovation, including ai, that is a goal that is broadly bipartisan. As a former governor in colorado, I recognize states are rightfully the laboratories of democracy. The president's recent executive order on a.I. Directs the fcc to consider withholding funds to states that have a.I. Laws that can be in conflict with stated goals.
▶ 2:57:22Ms. Gomez: I think the fcc does have a role in how a.I. Is involved in managing communication networks and blocking robo calls. It is questionable at best whether the fcc can regulate how a.I. Models are used or developed. Let me start with commissioner gomez. Does the fcc have explicit jurisdiction under the communications act to preempt state a.I. Loss, why or why not?
▶ 2:57:52Ms. Gomez: >> the communications act does not grant explicit authority to the fcc to preempt a.I. Laws. I'm dubious about our authority to be able to preempt a.I. Laws because telecommunications carriers use a.I. In their networks. I think what we would need for the fcc to have preemption authority is for there to be a comprehensive federal framework of a.I.
▶ 2:58:19Ms. Gomez: Regulation that grants that authority to the fcc. >> exactly. Chairman, do you state or proceed ai laws that have been enacted in states like texas or utah, do these raise concerns for you? >> thank you for the question. I agree that we want the U.S. to continue to be the global leader when it comes to ai.
▶ 2:58:48Ms. Gomez: In terms of the fcc, there is an executive order that asks us to initiate a proceeding to determine whether or not to adopt federal reporting and disclosure standards for ai models and whether it would preempt conflicting and we will start that proceeding and take comment on all sides of the issue.
▶ 2:59:07Ms. Gomez: >> would that mean the fcc could withhold universal service funds from states that usually the funds are meant to help low income consumers in rural hospitals, schools with their conductivity? Can those funds be interrupted as a consequence? >> the issue I heard raised which would be administered by commerce. >> ok.
▶ 2:59:32Ms. Gomez: And this year we see a wave of tariffs on various imports in the U.S. and while trade negotiations may continue to reduce tariffs, that does not necessarily mean the economic uncertainty they create does not continue to impact manufacturers. Including those who manufacture electronics and communications equipment.
▶ 2:59:59Ms. Gomez: Is the fcc in the process or have they evaluated whether escalating tariffs on information and communication technologies hardware has either lengthened timelines to build modern communication networks, or raised operating costs for providers or consumers in rural areas? >> thank you, senator. Cpi data shows prices for smartphones are down 7% -- over 7% year-over-year.
▶ 3:00:29Ms. Gomez: We are not seeing the negative impact in that sector at this point. >> I was thinking more building out the networks, the towers and other communications equipment. >> if we see it there, we would have seen it in all forms. We are trying to find ways to drive down the prices for these services. >> glad to hear that. And the last question for you, in 2020 one, the marshall fire really devastated boulder, colorado.
▶ 3:01:02Ms. Gomez: It forced countless families to evacuate their homes. The marshall fire and numerous other disasters across the country shown a bright light on the key role the federal government and first responders play industry reading key information during these types of emergencies. Often times that information saves lives. A lot of it includes -- or should include, has included the national weather service and the fcc.
▶ 3:01:32Ms. Gomez: The marshall fire spurred action at the fcc, which we appreciate to improve the location accuracy for how wireless emergency alerts are delivered to americans. I think that action is welcomed, more work needs to be done. But to make sure our communities receive timely information during disasters, what message would you share with americans on the fcc's work to improve these wireless emergency alerts?
▶ 3:01:59Mr. Carr: Thank you, this is important, and we are pushing hard to increase locations. It looks like an issue where chairman cruz has been leading for a long time. A lot of the location data, some of it is gps.
▶ 3:02:22Mr. Carr: And to look up standing supplementary and secondary ways of getting that precision navigation and timing displayed by gps. Next steps in trying to invigorate that work. >> thank you again for your service. I yelled back to the chair. >> thank you very much. Thank you to all the commissioners to your testimony. Senators will have until the close of business.
▶ 3:02:57Mr. Carr: This concludes today's hearing, the committee stands adjourned.